Banco Santander Brasil SA (BSBR) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning to join us during the 2023 closing results conference call. This event is being broadcast live from our headquarters in São Paulo. And as always, will be divided into 3 parts.

大家早安，感謝您今天早上參加我們的 2023 年最終業績電話會議。我們位於聖保羅的總部對這項活動進行現場直播。和往常一樣，將分為 3 部分。

First, our CEO, Mario Leao will talk about the main highlights of the period and the strategies by which we will continue to direct our growth in the coming quarters. Next, our CFO, Gustavo Alejo, will provide a detailed analysis of our performance. And finally, we will have our Q&A session, during which you will be able to interact directly with our leadership.

首先，我們的執行長 Mario Leao 將談論這段時期的主要亮點以及我們將繼續指導未來幾季成長的策略。接下來，我們的財務長 Gustavo Alejo 將對我們的業績進行詳細分析。最後，我們將舉行問答環節，在此期間您將能夠直接與我們的領導層互動。

Before we begin, I would like to give you some instructions. We have 3 audio options on the screen, all the content in Portuguese, all the content in English or the original audio. The first 2 options will have simultaneous translation. To choose your option, just click on the button at the bottom center of your screen to ask questions during the Q&A session, simply click on the hand at the bottom of your screen. Questions will be answered in the language in which they are asked. Today's presentation is now available to download from our IR website. Now I hand over to Mario Leao, who will begin the presentation.

在我們開始之前，我想給你一些指示。螢幕上有 3 個音訊選項，所有內容均為葡萄牙語，所有內容均為英語或原始音訊。前 2 個選項將有同聲翻譯。要選擇您的選項，只需單擊螢幕底部中央的按鈕即可在問答環節中提問，只需單擊螢幕底部的手即可。問題將以提出問題的語言來回答。今天的簡報現在可以從我們的 IR 網站下載。現在我請馬裡奧·萊奧開始演講。

Hello. Good morning, everyone. We are here live with you. It's 10:03. It's a pleasure to be with you again, closing in my second year in the leadership of Santander.

你好。大家，早安。我們在這裡和你住在一起。現在是 10 點 03 分。很高興能再次與大家在一起，這是我領導桑坦德銀行的第二年。

As we started with this new format the last quarter, I will try to present to you the first slides in a very direct and dynamic way. And then Gustavo will join me to talk about the numbers. We will try to conclude the presentation in about half hour because we want to allow 45 to 50 minutes for Q&A, depending on your interest. So we are here to answer your questions promptly. And then our IR department will certainly be available to ask -- to answer further questions.

當我們在上個季度開始使用這種新格式時，我將嘗試以非常直接和動態的方式向您展示第一張投影片。然後古斯塔沃將和我一起談論這些數字。我們將嘗試在大約半小時內結束演示，因為我們希望根據您的興趣留出 45 到 50 分鐘的問答時間。因此，我們會及時回答您的問題。然後我們的 IR 部門肯定可以詢問 - 回答進一步的問題。

Here on Slide 4, I would like to highlight a few key messages, revenue and our net income is also here. But we also want to focus on the consolidation of our messages for 2023 that just ended. Well, Slide 4 carries some key messages. First of all, this has been another quarter of margin growth. As a whole, we will show you more impressive growth in market NII. We also have growth in the client NII, but client NNI -- NII is the summation of margins on the liability and also asset side. I mean liability margin has the challenge that we will try to make up more volume. And on the asset side, we will try to show you several lines that are growing as well.

在投影片 4 上，我想強調一些關鍵訊息，收入和我們的淨利潤也在這裡。但我們也希望專注於剛結束的 2023 年資訊的整合。嗯，幻燈片 4 傳達了一些關鍵訊息。首先，這是利潤率又一個成長的季度。總體而言，我們將向您展示市場 NII 更令人印象深刻的成長。我們的客戶 NII 也有所成長，但客戶 NNI - NII 是負債和資產方面利潤的總和。我的意思是，負債保證金面臨挑戰，我們將盡力彌補更多的數量。在資產方面，我們將嘗試向您展示幾條正在成長的產品線。

The first takeaway message is that certainly, we have a revenue recovery apart from NII. And looking at the portfolio diversification, as I've been stressed constantly, this quarter has been stronger. But even with seasonality, the quarter has been very positive in terms of fees. And I'll give you more details on how we go about that.

第一個要點是，除了 NII 之外，我們的收入當然也有所恢復。看看投資組合的多元化，正如我不斷強調的那樣，本季表現更加強勁。但即使有季節性因素，本季的費用也非常樂觀。我將向您提供有關我們如何開展該工作的更多詳細資訊。

Our balance sheet construction has been more solid. We already showed you some of our balance sheet lines, and now we will elaborate on that in the fourth quarter, which consolidates our strategy, both in terms of portfolio diversification. Portfolio diversification has to do with assets, commissions and be less reliant on market credit. But it also has to do with diversification in the credit line, focusing on the customer base where we would we were growing less in the growth cycle, but we are growing more in products and client base.

我們的資產負債表結構更加穩固。我們已經向您展示了我們的一些資產負債表項目，現在我們將在第四季度對此進行詳細說明，這將鞏固我們在投資組合多元化方面的策略。投資組合多元化與資產、佣金有關，並減少對市場信用的依賴。但這也與信貸額度的多元化有關，重點關注客戶群，我們希望在成長週期中成長較少，但我們在產品和客戶群方面成長更多。

And so the quality of our portfolio makes us very optimistic and excited. We are talking about that turnaround in the curve which happened in the first quarter of this year. And in the fourth quarter, we are very comfortable with the evolution of our cost of credit, cost of credit, and the relevant indicators of cost of credit, especially in our retail business is evolving. As expected, we had some one-off cases, and there was a one-off case. On the wholesale part Gustavo is not going to give you a lot of details on that as we usually do. do, and we did some special efforts, something that was one-off identified and therefore, the recurring cost of credit remains very sound with good prospects.

因此，我們投資組合的品質讓我們非常樂觀和興奮。我們正在談論今年第一季發生的曲線轉變。在第四季度，我們對信貸成本的演變感到非常滿意，信貸成本以及信貸成本的相關指標，尤其是我們的零售業務正在不斷發展。不出所料，我們有一些一次性的案例，也有一個一次性的案例。在批發方面，古斯塔沃不會像我們通常那樣向您提供很多細節。我們做了一些特別的努力，這是一次性確定的，因此，信貸的經常性成本仍然非常合理，前景良好。

In terms of priorities, as we've said before, we've been very consistent with our message. We will be constantly focused on customer base monetization. We have a customer base of almost 65 million customers. We have to try to make them more loyal and focus on principality, which is our focus. Our strategy of being the principal bank of our clients is something that is here to stay, and it's very important for the bank. We will talk a lot about customer base monetization.

在優先事項方面，正如我們之前所說，我們的訊息非常一致。我們將持續關注客戶群貨幣化。我們擁有近 6500 萬客戶的客戶群。我們必須努力讓他們更忠誠並專注於公國，這是我們的重點。我們作為客戶主要銀行的策略是長期不變的，這對銀行來說非常重要。我們將詳細討論客戶群貨幣化。

We will also talk about the consolidation of our strategic business, and I'll give you some figures about -- in terms of what we've been doing since half -- the second half of 2022 and how things interact.

我們還將討論我們策略業務的整合，我將向您提供一些關於 2022 年下半年以來我們所做的事情以及事物如何相互作用的數據。

In the next 3 slides, well, we chose 3 slides to talk about customer centrality. I mean, our strategic agenda, which has to do with our delivery quarter-on-quarter is mostly focused on customer centralization. Here, we have a summary of some figures related to customer centrality.

在接下來的 3 張投影片中，我們選擇了 3 張投影片來討論以客戶為中心。我的意思是，我們的策略議程與季度交付有關，主要關注客戶集中化。在這裡，我們總結了一些與客戶中心性相關的數據。

On the left-hand side of the slide, on the bottom part, we have a chart that shows the evolution of our NPS. Back in 2017, almost 7 years ago, Santander was one of first large bank to talk about NPS. We released our measures. We talk to the market about it, certainly other competitors talk about NPS because we're not the only ones, but we've been talking about it for at least 7 years. And I would say that this past year, we made great progress. I mean there was good evolution on the individual side.

在幻燈片左側的底部，我們有一個圖表，顯示了 NPS 的演變。早在 2017 年，差不多 7 年前，桑坦德銀行是第一家談論 NPS 的大型銀行之一。我們發布了我們的措施。我們與市場談論它，當然其他競爭對手也在談論 NPS，因為我們不是唯一的，但我們已經談論它至少 7 年了。我想說，在過去的一年裡，我們取得了巨大的進步。我的意思是，個人方面有良好的發展。

And in terms of the business accounts, I mean, this is our highest NPS in the company segment. And looking at every channel, we also evolved substantially. So my message to the market is that we are valuing NPS as one of the major KPIs. It's not the only one, but we will continue to talk to our clients in an omnichannel approach online and on the physical channel, and we certainly react based on their feedback. And that's why we were able to evolve in our principality agenda.

就企業帳戶而言，我的意思是，這是我們公司部門中最高的淨推薦值。縱觀每一個管道，我們也取得了長足的進步。因此，我向市場傳達的訊息是，我們將 NPS 視為主要 KPI 之一。這不是唯一的，但我們將繼續在網路和實體管道上以全通路與客戶交談，我們當然會根據他們的回饋做出反應。這就是為什麼我們能夠發展我們的公國議程。

We are also improving our profitability for the new vintages. So clients from the new vintages have had a good profitability performance. And here, we are showing that in the year of 2023 alone, we evolved I mean, of course, newer vintages evolve much better when compared to older vintages. But we've been very fortunate because we are able to choose clients with whom we want to work with. And the way we work with these customers, allow us to improve profitability. We are also improving and making progress in terms of loyalty. We made important progress, and we will look for more in 2024. But this is just to show you that we are on the right track, we are evolving.

我們也正在提高新年份的獲利能力。因此，新年份的客戶獲得了良好的獲利表現。在這裡，我們展示了僅在 2023 年，我們就取得了進展，我的意思是，當然，與較舊的年份相比，較新的年份的演變要好得多。但我們非常幸運，因為我們能夠選擇我們想要合作的客戶。我們與這些客戶的合作方式使我們能夠提高獲利能力。我們在忠誠度方面也在不斷改進和進步。我們取得了重要進展，我們將在 2024 年尋求更多進展。但這只是為了向您表明我們正走在正確的軌道上，我們正​​在不斷發展。

And we are also focused on being the principal bank of our clients. That's why we're focusing on principality. Some of the main leverages are payroll, we've been talking about. We are a major bank focusing on payroll, and we want to enhance that even more our relationship with companies and large corporate, and also the high income segment. I will elaborate on that further on. And investments, I will give you more details about our or diving to that important strategy and also expansion in revenues.

我們也致力於成為客戶的主要銀行。這就是為什麼我們關注公國。我們一直在談論的一些主要槓桿是工資。我們是一家專注於薪資的大型銀行，我們希望進一步加強與公司和大型企業以及高收入群體的關係。我將進一步詳細闡述這一點。至於投資，我將向您提供有關我們或深入研究這項重要策略以及收入擴張的更多詳細資訊。

Also talking about Select, I've been talking to analysts and everybody asks, what are you doing that is so different? Everybody is talking about how income, everybody has their own responses and our brand is select. But we do believe that we are doing something very special and very particular. Maybe I can give you some more details later on during the Q&A. And our IR team is also ready to give you more information.

還談到精選，我一直在與分析師交談，每個人都問，你在做什麼如此不同？每個人都在談論收入如何，每個人都有自己的反應，我們的品牌是選擇的。但我們確實相信我們正在做一些非常特別的事情。也許我可以在稍後的問答中向您提供更多詳細資訊。我們的投資者關係團隊也隨時準備為您提供更多資訊。

In 2022, we decided to have a special position with a Select or high income segment. We are working very closely to our customer base. Our loan portfolio mean 27% of the individual's retail portfolio is already represented in Select. We are growing 27%. Our customer base is growing more than 50% year-on-year. I mean there was -- we had our public mission, which is to reach 1 million Select customers by the end of 2023, and we surpassed that figure. Now we reached 1.2 million Select clients. And now the new target is 2 million. So this is what we will work towards.

2022 年，我們決定為精選或高收入群體設立一個特殊職位。我們正在與我們的客戶群密切合作。我們的貸款投資組合意味著個人零售投資組合的 27% 已包含在 Select 中。我們的成長率為 27%。我們的客戶群較去年同期成長超過 50%。我的意思是——我們有我們的公共使命，即到 2023 年底達到 100 萬精選客戶，而我們超越了這個數字。現在我們的精選客戶已達 120 萬。現在新的目標是200萬。這就是我們將要努力的方向。

So we want to do this in a profitable way. I mean our loyal select customers are more loyal than the average. That's why our revenue has been increasing throughout the years. Another additional figure that has to do with Selective. First is that we are launching a new initiative still running as a pilot. But I believe that this will be an important step towards our goal for 2024.

所以我們希望以有利可圖的方式做到這一點。我的意思是我們忠實的精選客戶比一般客戶更忠誠。這就是為什麼我們的收入多年來一直在增長。另一個與選擇性有關的附加數字。首先，我們正在啟動一項新舉措，目前仍在試點階段。但我相信這將是我們實現 2024 年目標的重要一步。

We are expanding the concept of AAA. AAA is our investment advisory service. It's evolving quite well. It's already bothering other competitors. So now we are launching the concept of AAA patrimonial. In fact, this is the version for insurance and consortium of our AAA. So AAA patrimonial is something that we will grow this year, and we now have a large number of advisers.

我們正在擴展 AAA 的概念。 AAA 是我們的投資諮詢服務。它發展得很好。這已經困擾了其他競爭對手。所以現在我們推出AAA世襲的概念。事實上，這是我們AAA保險和財團的版本。所以AAA遺產是我們今年會發展的東西，我們現在有大量的顧問。

First of all, they are linked to the Select store selling in a very personalized way selling insurance and consortium to our high income clients. The movement we did last year was very exciting. And so we believe that we will have an important agenda going forward.

首先，它們與 Select 商店相關聯，以非常個性化的方式向我們的高收入客戶銷售保險和財團。我們去年所做的運動非常令人興奮。因此，我們相信我們將有一個重要的議程向前邁進。

Now moving to retail, but now going to the other extreme because we were talking about how income. Now we are making some important advances in what we call mass retail. So mass retail, which is the large base not only of Santander, but all of the other incumbent banks our agenda has been quite diversified. We are looking for more loyalty, greater principality. We're evolving with NPS, so we are doing that quite well. But doing more of the same or more of what we've been doing with just marginal evolutions, it's not going to work.

現在轉向零售，但現在走向另一個極端，因為我們正在談論收入如何。現在，我們在所謂的大眾零售領域取得了一些重要進展。因此，大眾零售不僅是桑坦德銀行的龐大基礎，也是所有其他現有銀行的基礎，我們的議程相當多元化。我們正在尋找更多的忠誠、更大的公權。我們正在與 NPS 一起發展，所以我們做得很好。但是，做更多與我們一直在做的事情相同或更多的事情，只是進行邊際進化，這是行不通的。

So in our last call, I told you that this is a segment that is generating negative results to Santander. This is not something exclusively of Santander, other banks are also facing challenges. But certainly, we want to be profitable in every segment. We do not want to have a bank when one segment funds the other. And we do have opportunities to really focus on mass retail, and we are working diligently so that in the next few months, we can also show some good evolutions in our offering. This will be a more remote and digital agenda.

因此，在我們上次的電話會議中，我告訴大家，這是一個為桑坦德銀行帶來負面結果的部分。這並不是桑坦德銀行獨有的事情，其他銀行也面臨挑戰。但當然，我們希望在每個細分市場中實現盈利。當一個部門為另一個部門提供資金時，我們不想擁有一家銀行。我們確實有機會真正專注於大眾零售，而且我們正在努力工作，以便在接下來的幾個月裡，我們也可以在我們的產品中展示一些良好的發展。這將是一個更遠端和數位化的議程。

So the mass retail segment will also combine digital experience and a greater capacity to relate with human beings through our remote channel, well, over the phone, but a phone call that evolves to chat and regenerative AI. So this will be a year of evolution in the way we deal with mass retail. This simplification agenda is very robust. We have had a reduction so far of 31% of the products in the portfolio and in cards alone, that number surpasses 50%.

因此，大眾零售領域也將結合數位體驗和透過我們的遠端管道與人類建立聯繫的更大能力，好吧，透過電話，但電話呼叫將演變為聊天和再生人工智慧。因此，今年將是我們因應大眾零售方式演變的一年。這個簡化議程非常有力。到目前為止，我們已經減少了產品組合中 31% 的產品，光是卡片方面的產品數量就超過了 50%。

So what are we doing in practical terms? We are cleaning up our offering, making it simpler, making it more user-friendly. And with that, we will be able to increase engagement with clients, especially in terms of mass retail. Clients do not need much. They need a good card, a good account, good credit offerings. Therefore, we are looking at essential -- an agenda that is based on the essentials. It has to be simple and easy to understand.

那麼，我們在實際操作中具體做了哪些工作呢？我們正在清理我們的產品，使其更加簡單，更加用戶友好。這樣，我們將能夠增加與客戶的互動，特別是在大眾零售方面。客戶需要的不多。他們需要一張好卡、一個好帳戶、良好的信用服務。因此，我們正在關注基本要素—基於基本要素的議程​​。它必須簡單且易於理解。

Now moving on to the investment agenda, which is one of strategic building blocks. We made important advances and I'll show you the numbers of how we grow in terms of volume and results. Retail is a driving force behind our growth. Of course, we want a lot more. We want to extract a lot more, especially in terms of companies but also SMEs. We have a funding record, which is 1.5x more than what we did in 2022. And sometimes in previous years, that number was even negative. So in terms investments was something that was not part of our strategic agenda, but now it is. And certainly, we are ready to look for better multiples like we did in 2023. But that shows that we are on the right track.

現在進入投資議程，這是策略基石之一。我們取得了重要進展，我將向您展示我們在數量和成果方面如何增長的數字。零售是我們成長的驅動力。當然，我們想要更多。我們希望獲得更多，特別是在公司和中小企業方面。我們的融資記錄是 2022 年的 1.5 倍。而在前幾年，這個數字有時甚至是負數。因此，就投資而言，投資原本不是我們策略議程的一部分，但現在是了。當然，我們已經準備好好像 2023 年那樣尋求更好的本益比。但這表明我們正走在正確的軌道上。

One of the important segment is our AAA. It's like an office, which focuses on advice -- investment advisory. The NPS is 85%, which is the highest NPS of the industry. NPS here is measured by third parties in the market. And our net inflow per adviser was 2.5 million, and this is a very competitive number if we compare it with other offices or other peers. But we show that here, AAA is a major driver, total our digital brokerage firm I mean, last year, I showed you that we grew and we grew a lot throughout the year. We get -- we posted great results, so Toro has a very relevant agenda. So more and more, there will be an integration between Toro and our Santander stores. We have independent brands, distinct brands in our private, as I mentioned before, we posted record numbers in terms of funding and results. But we still have more room to grow. We want to double our private segment in the coming years, and we are ready to do that.

重要的部分之一是我們的 AAA。它就像一個辦公室，專注於建議——投資諮詢。 NPS為85%，為業界最高NPS。這裡的 NPS 是由市場上的第三方衡量的。我們每位顧問的淨流入量為 250 萬，如果我們與其他辦公室或其他同行相比，這是一個非常有競爭力的數字。但我們在這裡表明，AAA 是我們數位經紀公司的主要驅動力，我的意思是，去年，我向你們展示了我們的成長，而且我們全年成長了很多。我們得到了——我們發布了很好的結果，所以 Toro 有一個非常相關的議程。因此，Toro 和我們的桑坦德商店之間將會越來越融合。我們擁有獨立品牌，我們的私人品牌，正如我之前提到的，我們在資金和業績方面創下了創紀錄的數字。但我們還有更大的成長空間。我們希望在未來幾年將我們的私人部門擴大一倍，我們已經準備好這樣做。

Now moving quickly to our strategic agenda. We've been accountable to the market. And in the third quarter of 2022, I decided to tell the market something about our strategic agenda. We were still in the first year of our legacy portfolio of older vintages. So on the one hand, there was a part of the portfolio that we need had to be managed. And some other portfolios because we knew that for some time, it will go down. Of course, we didn't want that, but we knew that for a year or 1.5 years, we would have to take care of that.

現在快速進入我們的策略議程。我們一直對市場負責。在 2022 年第三季度，我決定向市場介紹我們的策略議程。我們仍處於老年份葡萄酒傳統投資組合的第一年。因此，一方面，我們需要管理投資組合的一部分。還有其他一些投資組合，因為我們知道在一段時間內它會下跌。當然，我們不希望這樣，但我們知道在一年或 1.5 年內，我們必須處理這個問題。

But on the other hand, we chose some other businesses in the third quarter of '22 to the that we would put focus on growing those businesses. So this is just a quick accountability of this business. I'll start with payroll deductible loan. On the left-hand side of the slide, we see that we are growing again this quarter. We are growing in all the payroll deductible loan lines. We are growing on the private side, and which is an asset percent in there. We are doing that with a very strict control of cost of credit. We are putting focus on payroll deductible loans. And I'm very pleased to see that we've been consistently delivering good results.

但另一方面，我們在 22 年第三季選擇了一些其他業務，以便我們將重點放在發展這些業務上。所以這只是對這項業務的快速問責。我將從薪資可扣除貸款開始。在幻燈片的左側，我們看到本季我們再次成長。我們所有的薪資可扣除貸款額度都在增加。我們在私人方面正在成長，這是其中的資產百分比。我們透過非常嚴格地控制信貸成本來做到這一點。我們將重點放在薪資可扣除貸款上。我很高興看到我們一直在取得良好的成果。

Also, agribusiness, we made important deliveries. One of the things I told the market before is that we wanted to reach BRL 50 billion of our portfolio of agribusiness products. We are talking about ag products. Not only we arrived at BRL 50 billion, but almost BRL 54 billion, meaning that we were able to grow 42%, if you look December '22 vis-a-vis December '23. And once we compare with December 23, we reached almost 100% growth. That means that we doubled our portfolio, which shows that we put a lot of relevance in this business.

此外，在農業綜合企業方面，我們也進行了重要的交付。我之前告訴市場的一件事是，我們希望農業綜合企業產品組合達到 500 億雷亞爾。我們正在談論農業產品。我們不僅達到了 500 億雷亞爾，而且幾乎達到了 540 億雷亞爾，這意味著如果您比較 22 月 22 日與 23 月 12 月的情況，我們能夠增長 42%。與 12 月 23 日相比，我們幾乎達到了 100% 的成長。這意味著我們的投資組合增加了一倍，這表明我們對這項業務投入了大量的精力。

Our consumer finance is the largest consumer finance company in the country. At the end of the year, we had 21% of quota. We want to grow that. The ambition is to reach 25, and I hope we reach that number this year. But we finalized that with a loan origination record, and this is a historical volume. So this is a very strong sign that appears in our results. But this just shows that we are really thinking big in terms of our consumer finance operation.

我們的消費金融是全國最大的消費金融公司。到年底，我們的配額達到了21%。我們想要發展這一點。我們的目標是達到 25 個，我希望我們今年能達到這個數字。但我們透過貸款發放記錄最終確定了這一點，這是歷史記錄。所以這是我們的結果中出現的一個非常強烈的跡象。但這恰恰顯示我們在消費金融業務方面確實有遠大的想法。

About cards, already mentioned our evolution in cards. We already posted great evolution in cards this quarter. I mean if you look at billings, I mean, billings in the quarter year-on-year in the fourth quarter of '22, that was down vis-a-vis the previous year. In the third quarter of '23, it was growing 7%. In the fourth quarter 2023, it is growing at 11%. So we are growing 2 digits in terms of billing, given that the average spending increase in our customer base. And also, there is the fact that we are selling more cards now that in the -- when compared to the first quarter of the year. So what we saw in the fourth quarter of 2021, which is our record sales of cards.

關於卡牌，已經提到了我們卡牌的演變。本季度我們已經發布了卡片的巨大發展。我的意思是，如果你看一下帳單，我的意思是，22 年第四季的帳單比去年同期有所下降。 2023 年第三季成長了 7%。 2023 年第四季，成長率為 11%。鑑於我們客戶群的平均支出增加，我們的帳單增加了兩位數。而且，事實上，與今年第一季相比，我們現在銷售的卡片數量更多。所以我們在 2021 年第四季看到了我們創紀錄的卡片銷售。

Now we are resuming to a level that is almost 2/3 of that level. And this is a very adequate level for us. Again, we are not trying to have a sprint in terms of card sales like we did in 2021 because this is not how we wanted to end '23 and going forward into 2024. But we are happy with the sales of cards, considering our customer base and our -- and the results will appear. And also principality with Esfera. We will talk more about Esfera, but Esfera is progressing very well.

現在我們正在恢復到幾乎是該水平的 2/3 的水平。這對我們來說是一個非常足夠的水平。再說一次，我們並沒有像 2021 年那樣嘗試在卡片銷售方面進行衝刺，因為這不是我們想要結束 23 年並進入 2024 年的方式。但考慮到我們的客戶，我們對卡片的銷售感到滿意基地和我們的——結果就會出現。還有埃斯費拉公國。我們將更多地討論 Esfera，但 Esfera 進展非常順利。

In terms of companies, the agenda is quite positive. You will see the volumes further on, but talking about strategies for large corporate and SMEs, there was a very good portfolio expansion, we grew 2 digits year-on-year. So we want to continue posting a strong performance year-on-year. But the focus will always be in profitability. We could grow much faster on the large corporate side. But with principality being the focus now, we will certainly compete with the capital markets. And so we have to be more selective in terms of what we want to include in our balance sheet, and we have a very good performance in several rankings. Number one in consumer finance, foreign exchange, et cetera.

就公司而言，議程相當積極。您將進一步看到交易量，但談到大型企業和中小企業的策略，我們的投資組合擴張非常好，我們比去年同期成長了兩位數。因此，我們希望繼續保持同比強勁的表現。但重點始終是獲利能力。在大公司方面，我們可以成長得更快。但現在公國成為焦點，我們肯定會與資本市場競爭。因此，我們必須在資產負債表中包含的內容方面更有選擇性，而且我們在多個排名中都有非常好的表現。消費金融、外匯等領域排名第一。

So on the side of SMEs on the right-hand side of the slide, our growth agenda remains very clear. We grew more than 100% quarter-on-quarter after growing more than 3x last quarter, that stable agenda of the portfolio where we are still looking at the right moment to accelerate we were growing stronger after the second half of the year. And the numbers are here to prove that. So we are already giving clear steps in that direction.

因此，在幻燈片右側的中小企業方面，我們的成長議程仍然非常明確。在上個季度成長超過 3 倍之後，我們的季度環比成長超過 100%，這是投資組合的穩定議程，我們仍在尋找合適的時機來加速我們在下半年之後的成長。這些數字證明了這一點。因此，我們已經朝著這個方向採取了明確的步驟。

And now to conclude my part, I will talk about technology and innovation. And certainly, this is connected to everything I said before. We don't have technology on the one hand and business on the other hand. Everything is business and technology is a major business center. The operation areas are large business centers.

現在結束我的部分，我將談論技術和創新。當然，這與我之前所說的一切有關。我們一方面沒有技術，另一方面也沒有業務。一切都是商業，技術是主要的商業中心。經營區域為大型商業中心。

We have lots of figures in the slide. I will just mention some. 95% of our operation already runs in the cloud. We are converging to 100% very soon, 100% of our operations will run in the cloud. This is a very good figure because this generates efficiency, cost reduction. Therefore, we are very pleased to be -- to have such a strong cloud agenda. We are constantly investing like the rest of the market is as well. We are investing in generative AI, generative AI can be a major response to chat and remote channel. But it can also give us a good response for coding, the development, generating new businesses. Therefore, we are moving quite fast in this agenda. We are also focusing on innovation.

幻燈片中有很多數字。我只提一些。我們 95% 的營運已經在雲端運作。我們很快就會達到 100%，我們 100% 的操作將在雲端中運行。這是一個非常好的數字，因為這可以提高效率，降低成本。因此，我們很高興擁有如此強大的雲端議程。我們像市場上的其他公司一樣不斷投資。我們正在投資生成式人工智慧，生成式人工智慧可以是對聊天和遠端通道的主要回應。但它也可以為我們編碼、開發、產生新業務帶來良好的回應。因此，我們在這項議程上的進展相當快。我們也注重創新。

Our first innovation with Drex was very successful. We are making good progress with Central Bank of Brazil. We are also focusing on banking as a service. We are certainly trying to expand this agenda because we want to have Santander more present with our customers. So we want to be a part of our customer experience on a day-to-day basis. We are also maturing our agenda business domains. We have 27 business domains that we introduced from '22 to '23 and now from 2022 to '24.

我們與 Drex 的首次創新非常成功。我們與巴西中央銀行的合作取得了良好進展。我們也專注於銀行即服務。我們當然正在努力擴大這項議程，因為我們希望桑坦德銀行能夠更多地服務我們的客戶。因此，我們希望成為日常客戶體驗的一部分。我們的議程業務領域也在不斷成熟。我們從 22 年到 23 年以及現在從 2022 年到 24 年引入了 27 個業務領域。

We are also merging that more intensively with our product agenda. So this is domain, those large communities that operate end to end in our businesses is quite consolidated in all of the remuneration, all the incentives that are quite aligned. We continue pursuing our efficiency agenda. We are doubling the number of transactions and while at the same time, we reduced by almost half the unit cost.

我們也將其與我們的產品議程更緊密地結合。所以這是一個領域，那些在我們的業務中端到端運作的大型社群在所有薪酬、所有激勵措施方面都非常統一。我們繼續追求效率議程。我們將交易數量增加了一倍，同時單位成本降低了近一半。

And with that, I will turn the floor over to Gustavo, and I'll come back during our Q&A. Thank you.

接下來，我將把發言權交給古斯塔沃，我將在問答環節回來。謝謝。

Thank you, Mario. Good morning, everyone. Let's start the results section with the NII. We posted NII growth of almost 5% year-on-year with good progress in client and market NII. We recorded a good performance in terms of volume as well as in terms of funding, both of which benefited the client NII in 2023.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。大家，早安。讓我們從 NII 開始結果部分。我們的 NII 年成長近 5%，客戶和市場 NII 取得良好進展。我們在數量和資金方面都取得了良好的表現，這兩個方面都使客戶 NII 在 2023 年受益。

In Q4, we saw the continuation of some positive trends seen in Q3, which led to a growth of 4.8% in NII quarter-on-quarter. One of these is the gradual growth in retail credit, which will be detailed in greater depth in a minute. The other trend is the reduction in the Selic interest rate, which benefits our funding costs, as Mario mentioned. Market NII shows a progressive evolution, which I have been commenting on over the last few presentations and which is in line with our expectations. The performance of spreads in the full year reflects our strategy of greater selectivity, which began in 2022, and which is in keeping with the risk profile of new loan originations.

在第四季度，我們看到了第三季度的一些積極趨勢的延續，這導致NII環比增長4.8%。其中之一是零售信貸的逐步成長，稍後將對此進行更深入的詳細介紹。另一個趨勢是 Selic 利率的降低，這有利於我們的融資成本，正如 Mario 所提到的。市場 NII 顯示出漸進式的演變，我在過去的幾場演講中對此進行了評論，這符合我們的預期。全年利差表現反映了我們自 2022 年開始實施的更大選擇性策略，該策略與新貸款發放的風險狀況一致。

Lastly, regarding NII, I would like to highlight the positive year-on-year evolution of the net interest income. In the fourth quarter, as you can see, we posted growth of 12.3%.

最後，關於NII，我想強調淨利息收入年比的正面變化。正如您所看到的，第四季度我們的成長率為 12.3%。

Now I'm going to comment on some data on the evolution of our loan book. We increased our expanded portfolio, growing 9% over the year, as mentioned. We grew in all lines of business, with significant expansion in retail for individuals, vehicles and SMEs. During Q4, we achieved a strong performance in cards for individuals. This result was sustained by seasonality and the gradual resumption of card sales, the resumption and improvement, which has proved to be more assertive and with satisfactory quality levels and loan origination. This performance was accompanied by continued consistent results in payroll deductible loans, mortgages and farm loans.

現在我將評論有關我們貸款簿演變的一些數據。如前所述，我們擴大了投資組合，今年成長了 9%。我們的所有業務領域都取得了成長，個人、車輛和中小企業的零售業務顯著擴張。第四季度，我們在個人卡方面取得了強勁的表現。這一結果是由季節性和卡銷售的逐步恢復、恢復和改善所維持的，事實證明，卡銷售更加自信，品質水準和貸款發放令人滿意。這一業績伴隨著工資可扣除貸款、抵押貸款和農業貸款的持續穩定結果。

Actually, Mario has commented, and I'll stress that, we should also highlight strong growth in every business, up 10% in Q4 and up 42% in the full year. In auto loans, we posted growth of 5.5% and quarter-on-quarter, marking the best performance of the year. This improvement more than offset the impact of the sale of the PSA portfolio in the previous quarter and it reflects the strength of our strategic partnerships and the positive momentum of the market.

事實上，馬裡奧已經評論過，我要強調的是，我們也應該強調每項業務的強勁成長，第四季成長 10%，全年成長 42%。汽車貸款方面，季增5.5%，創年最佳表現。這一改善不僅抵消了上一季出售 PSA 產品組合的影響，而且反映了我們戰略合作夥伴關係的實力和市場的積極勢頭。

In SMEs, we continue to boost the growth of our portfolio after a relatively stable first half year which is in line -- totally aligned with our stated strategy of increasing the share of this business in the total portfolio. The 5.2% increase in the portfolio in Q4 is something to be highlighted here.

在中小企業方面，經過相對穩定的上半年後，我們繼續推動投資組合的成長，這完全符合我們增加該業務在總投資組合中所佔份額的既定策略。這裡值得強調的是，第四季投資組合成長了 5.2%。

On the next slide, I shared details on our funding. As we have highlighted throughout the year, we have achieved a solid performance in funding which shows our commitment to the expansion strategy and the search for a more balanced mix between wholesale and retail.

在下一張投影片上，我分享了我們的資金細節。正如我們全年所強調的那樣，我們在融資方面取得了穩健的業績，這表明我們致力於擴張策略以及尋求批發和零售之間更平衡的組合。

Our funding, as mentioned grew by 15% in the full year and 2.6% in the quarter, with a highlight going to time deposits and exempt securities. Our loans to deposits ratio stands at 92%, the best level in our history. Here, we present the performance of our fees, which each quarter reflects the evolution of our business in a very clear and consistent way with positive performance in practically all business lines. In Q4, we recorded growth of 7% on the back of a 6.5% growth in the previous quarter even with the positive seasonal effects that happen in cards and in insurance business in general, showed very positive dynamics, which reinforces our strategy in fees, aiming for greater transactionality or more transactions with our clients.

如前面所提到的，我們的資金全年成長了 15%，本季增加了 2.6%，其中重點是定期存款和豁免證券。存貸比達92%，創歷史最高水準。在這裡，我們展示了我們的費用績效，每個季度都以非常清晰和一致的方式反映了我們業務的發展，幾乎所有業務線都取得了積極的業績。第四季度，我們在上一季成長6.5% 的基礎上實現了7% 的成長，儘管信用卡和保險業務總體上出現了積極的季節性影響，但仍表現出非常積極的動態，這強化了我們的收費策略，旨在與客戶實現更大的交易性或更多交易。

We now move to talk about the quality of our assets. This quarter, we have the effect of the increase in provisions for the specific case and reinforcement of provisions for the wholesale cases. If we disregard these effects, and the lower volume of recoveries after 2 quarters of record performance, we have a stable growth ALL in relation to the previous quarter with no signs of deterioration. We maintain the downward trend in the cost of credit, which closed the year at 4%. We also continue to see a downward trend in the renegotiated portfolio in relation to the total portfolio, reaching 6.3%, as you can see here. This 120 basis points reduction over the year reflects the better quality of recent vintages, especially in retail.

我們現在開始討論我們的資產品質。本季度，我們看到了增加個別案件撥備和加強批發案件撥備的效果。如果我們忽略這些影響，以及兩個季度創紀錄業績後復甦量的下降，我們將獲得與上一季相比的穩定成長，沒有惡化的跡象。我們維持信貸成本的下降趨勢，年末信貸成本為 4%。我們也繼續看到重新協商的投資組合相對於總投資組合呈下降趨勢，達到 6.3%，如您在此處看到的。今年 120 個基點的下降反映了近期年份的品質更好，尤其是在零售方面。

On the other hand, NPL formation posted a slight increase due to higher delinquency in the renegotiated loan portfolio. But this is something that was expected as we move forward in the process of purging this portfolio.

另一方面，由於重新協商的貸款組合拖欠率上升，不良貸款形成略有增加。但這是我們在清理該投資組合過程中所預料到的。

On the next slide, the next slide provides a more detailed overview of our delinquency indicators. We recorded a sequential drop in short-term indicators for both individuals and legal entities. I would like to highlight the 110 basis points improvement in the 15 to 90 past due loans for individuals. The long-term indicator, 90-plus, there was a slight variation of 8 basis points due to the renegotiated portfolio, as I've already mentioned. In fact, the 90-day default rate in the SME segment, on the left, also reflects the same impact. In short, we continue to have quality indicators under control with the possibility of some volatility throughout the year due to the renegotiated portfolio.

在下一張投影片中，下一張投影片提供了我們的拖欠指標的更詳細概述。我們記錄了個人和法人實體的短期指標連續下降。我想強調的是，個人逾期 15 至 90 筆貸款改善了 110 個基點。正如我已經提到的，由於重新談判的投資組合，長期指標為 90 以上，略有 8 個基點的變化。事實上，左邊中小企業的90天違約率也反映了同樣的影響。簡而言之，我們繼續控製品質指標，但由於重新談判的投資組合，全年可能會出現一些波動。

Moving on to Slide 19, please. Here, we present the evolution of our general expenses, which rose 9% in the quarter and 8% in the full year. Personnel expenses were affected by the collective bargaining agreement, which had an impact on the fourth quarter as a whole. In addition, in the full year, we also had the 8% carryover related to the 2022 labor agreement. Administrative expenses increased in the quarter, largely driven by seasonality.

請轉到投影片 19。在這裡，我們介紹了我們的一般費用的演變情況，該費用在本季度增長了 9%，全年增長了 8%。人員費用受到集體談判協議的影響，對第四季整體產生了影響。此外，全年我們還有與2022年勞動協定相關的8%的結轉。本季的管理費用增加，主要是受到季節性因素的推動。

The main factors behind this growth were strategic investments in marketing campaigns to take advantage of the end of year period and data processing due to the increase in volume in more business. The seasonal effect also affected our efficiency ratio, resulting in a deterioration of 80 basis points. To continue the new breakdown implemented last quarter, we present the performance of our expenses segregating product expenses and business expansion expenses from recurring expenses. We can see here that our annual growth was mainly concentrated on expenses focused on business growth, which we consider fundamental to supporting our strategy of delivering the best experience to our clients.

這一成長背後的主要因素是利用年末行銷活動的策略性投資以及由於更多業務量的增加而進行的數據處理。季節性影響也影響了我們的效率比，導致效率下降了 80 個基點。為了延續上季實施的新細目，我們將產品費用和業務擴展費用與經常性費用分開來呈現我們的費用績效。在這裡我們可以看到，我們的年度成長主要集中在業務成長的支出上，我們認為這對於支持我們為客戶提供最佳體驗的策略至關重要。

And to conclude the results section, we present our income statement. As a result of the dynamics discussed throughout this presentation, we recorded net income of BRL 2.2 billion. Compared to Q4 '22, total revenues grew by 11% and net income grew by 30%. Managerial profitability, excluding the specific case reached 12.3%. Our core capital reached 11.5%, a level that we consider adequate to continue with our long-term growth strategy. We ended 2023 with a more positive trend despite fluctuations in specific provisions and seasonal expenses, typical of any given last quarter. Credit performance was favorable and was accompanied by an increase in revenue generation. We expect this trend to intensify along 2024.

作為結果部分的總結，我們提出了我們的損益表。根據本次演示中討論的動態，我們實現了 22 億雷亞爾的淨利潤。與 22 年第四季相比，總營收成長 11%，淨利成長 30%。剔除特定個案的管理獲利能力達到12.3%。我們的核心資本達到 11.5%，我們認為這個水準足以延續我們的長期成長策略。儘管特定撥備和季節性費用出現波動（這是上個季度的典型情況），但我們在 2023 年結束時仍呈現出更積極的趨勢。信貸表現良好，收入也隨之增加。我們預計這一趨勢將在 2024 年加劇。

With that, I'll end my part, and I will give the floor to Mario for his final thoughts.

到此，我的部分就結束了，我將請馬裡奧發表最後的想法。

Thank you, Gustavo. I'll take just one more minute of your time to close, and we'll have the Q&A. Big message is here in this conclusion page, Page 22. In terms of context, 4 main messages, revenues are expanding. And we have a very positive expectation for 2024, both in terms of clients and markets. So we are optimistic. We are excited with the revenues line.

謝謝你，古斯塔沃。我將再佔用您一分鐘的時間來結束，然後我們將進行問答。這個結論頁（第 22 頁）傳達了重要訊息。就背景而言，有 4 個主要訊息：收入正在擴大。無論是在客戶方面還是在市場方面，我們對 2024 年都抱有非常積極的期望。所以我們很樂觀。我們對收入線感到興奮。

The business portfolio continues to be diversified. That's the second big message. We'll continue to be very focused on liabilities and on expanding the fees business, which is also -- which was always a very positive for Santander. We want to grow it even more.

業務組合持續多元化。這是第二個重要訊息。我們將繼續非常關注負債和擴大收費業務，這對桑坦德銀行來說一直是非常積極的。我們希望進一步發展它。

And also diversification is related to credit, which is the third point. We'll continue to pursue portfolio growth to gain market quotas in several or -- several products and segments and do it smartly so that we can grow the portfolio and with profitability.

而且多角化還跟信用有關，這是第三點。我們將繼續追求投資組合成長，以獲得多種產品和細分市場的市場配額，並明智地做到這一點，以便我們能夠擴大投資組合並提高獲利能力。

And the fourth context message is our obsessive quest for client principality. This is the strategy of Santander for 2024. In the coming years, everything we do will have to be linked to the client's agenda as it is, and we'll strengthen this even more. The drivers for this. I mentioned this already, but I want to stress, we are repositioning ourselves in retail, both in mass retail, but we'll talk more about during the year. We have a lot of deliveries for Q1 and mainly Q2 '24. We'll end the year in a totally different position compared to where we started. We're very excited about that. In Select high-income company segment, now mid-income segment and some SMEs. Well, these are segments that we're specializing in even more.

第四條背景資訊是我們對客戶主權的執著追求。這是桑坦德銀行2024年的策略。未來幾年，我們所做的一切都必須與客戶的議程掛鉤，我們將進一步加強這一點。為此的驅動程式。我已經提到過這一點，但我想強調，我們正在零售業重新定位自己，無論是在大眾零售業，但我們將在今年內更多地討論。我們在 24 年第一季和第二季有大量交付。與我們開始時相比，我們將在今年結束時處於完全不同的位置。我們對此感到非常興奮。在選擇高收入公司細分市場，現在是中等收入細分市場和一些中小企業。嗯，這些都是我們更專注的領域。

We are making our service to these segments even more regionalized, more tailored and in cards, we're taking another important stride forward with an obvious focus on principality and the ability to serve clients. We're very excited with this resumption in cards. We're doing this in a smart, precise and technical way with an in-depth personalization, understanding each client and each cluster.

我們正在使我們對這些細分市場的服務更加區域化、更加客製化，並且在卡片上，我們又向前邁出了重要的一步，明顯關注公國和服務客戶的能力。我們對卡片的恢復感到非常興奮。我們以智慧、精確和技術的方式做到這一點，並進行深入的個人化，了解每個客戶和每個集群。

We have a consumer finance growing again in Q4, it was already showing some strength. We sold PSA, yes, but Q3 was good and was quite strong. We are very excited with what consumer finance will bring us in 2024 and beyond. We also have consumer finance that is not related to vehicles. And the company's segment again -- it's growing again in retail system mid of last year. We are doing this in a very calculated and balanced way. We're very excited with that. And in terms of corporate, it's about profitability and discipline, but we have an important franchise that was established decades ago.

我們的消費金融在第四季再次成長，已經展現出一定的實力。是的，我們賣了標緻雪鐵龍，但第三季表現不錯，而且相當強勁。我們對 2024 年及以後消費金融將為我們帶來的東西感到非常興奮。我們還有與汽車無關的消費金融。去年年中，該公司的零售系統再次成長。我們正在以一種經過深思熟慮和平衡的方式來做這件事。我們對此感到非常興奮。就企業而言，這關係到盈利能力和紀律，但我們擁有幾十年前建立的重要特許經營權。

So in a nutshell, now officially closing 2023, we are, when we end 2023, we start 2024, very excited with the business dynamic. There are some points that Gustavo mentioned in terms of ALL in wholesale, no concerns with retail, which is very important. For the last 2 years, we worked to have comfort and I'm sharing that we are very excited with the portfolio and the new vintages. In terms of expenses, we have one-off situations, but the franchise makes us very excited to start 2024 with full steam and with the top line growth that we have been showing in a consolidated way.

簡而言之，現在 2023 年正式結束，當我們結束 2023 年，我們開始 2024 年時，我們對業務動態感到非常興奮。 Gustavo提到的一些點是ALL在批發方面，不關心零售，這一點非常重要。在過去的兩年裡，我們努力獲得舒適感，我分享的是我們對產品組合和新年份感到非常興奮。就費用而言，我們遇到了一次性情況，但特許經營權讓我們非常高興能夠在 2024 年開始全力以赴，並以整合的方式展現出營收成長。

With that, I will stop, and let's start the Q&A. Thank you very much.

說到這裡，我就停下來，讓我們開始問答吧。非常感謝。

Thank you, Mario and Gustavo. We will now start the question-and-answer session. From now on, all analysts will have the opportunity to ask questions. Again, if you want to ask a question, just click on the raise hand icon at the bottom of your screen. We will answer questions in the language in which they are asked. We kindly ask analysts to ask only one question so that everyone can participate. Our first question comes from Thiago Batista with UBS.

謝謝你們，馬裡奧和古斯塔沃。我們現在開始問答環節。從現在開始，所有分析師都有機會提問。同樣，如果您想提問，只需單擊螢幕底部的舉手圖示即可。我們將用他們被問到的語言回答問題。我們懇請分析師只提出一個問題，以便每個人都可以參與。我們的第一個問題來自瑞銀集團的蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。

Good morning, everyone. My question refers to loan origination. In the fourth quarter, we saw that the bank had a strong origination in the auto segment. I think it was the best quarter ever in terms of vehicle origination. And we also said that the bank is already issuing cards with a good evolution in the portfolio. So this return to origination, is it something that the bank feels comfortable to go back to several segments? Or you still see a concentration in high income alone or income to meet income. How do you see origination in the Santander portfolio?

大家，早安。我的問題涉及貸款發放。在第四季度，我們看到該銀行在汽車領域有著深厚的淵源。我認為就車輛起源而言，這是有史以​​來最好的季度。我們也表示，該銀行已經在發行卡，產品組合有了良好的發展。那麼，這次回歸本源，銀行是否願意回到幾個細分領域？或者你仍然看到僅僅集中於高收入或收入來滿足收入。您如何看待桑坦德投資組合的起源？

Thank you, Thiago. It's a pleasure to talk to you. I will start and then Gustavo will just add. We've been talking to you in a very linear and consistent way, meaning that throughout the years, we've been very selective in terms of the portfolios that would -- we would accept to keep them flat and CP and pure CP was in that category.

謝謝你，蒂亞戈。很高興與您交談。我先開始，然後古斯塔沃補充。我們一直以一種非常線性和一致的方式與您交談，這意味著多年來，我們在投資組合方面一直非常有選擇性，我們會接受保持它們平坦，並且 CP 和純 CP 在那個類別中。

The most -- I mean the cleanest and the more direct loan, especially if you look at average to lower income. We knew that for 2 years, these portfolios would be flat or may be down. And this would be compensated by other businesses. Some of these portfolios I mean, we are investing in CP FGTS and personal loans and cards. I mean, we are focusing in all income bracket. Of course, we are looking at high income, considering the bulk of select. But in the payroll area, that's a very good leverage to get to know clients better. I mean we are not doing payroll just now. We have been doing it for the past few years.

最——我的意思是最乾淨、更直接的貸款，特別是如果你考慮平均收入或較低收入的話。我們知道，在兩年內，這些投資組合將持平或可能下降。這將由其他企業補償。我的意思是，我們正在投資 CP FGTS 以及個人貸款和信用卡。我的意思是，我們關注的是所有收入階層。當然，考慮到大多數選擇，我們正在考慮高收入。但在薪資領域，這是更好地了解客戶的一個非常好的槓桿。我的意思是我們現在不做薪資單。過去幾年我們一直在這樣做。

But -- in this past year, we saw a clear evolution in terms of our capacity to understand it better and to make that a more loyal client. And then with that, we could sell like cleaner products for low and mid income. And so payroll is a very good example that justifies that.

但是，在過去的一年裡，我們看到了我們更好地理解它並使其成為更忠誠的客戶的能力方面的明顯演變。這樣，我們就可以向中低收入群體銷售清潔產品。因此，薪資單就是一個很好的例子，可以證明這一點。

Other products, we have been growing starting in 2023 and more aggressively in '23 -- '22 and '23. But today, I mean, we still have that -- we are still in that comfort zone that we have before in the same portfolios that we're growing in '22 and '23 like payroll, agri business, large corporate, we never stop growing. It was just a matter of profitability. But since the second half of the year, we also started growing other portfolios like consumer brand, finance, small and midsized companies were 2 proposes that we decided to step in the break.

其他產品，我們從 2023 年開始一直在成長，並在 23 年、22 年和 23 年更積極成長。但今天，我的意思是，我們仍然處於舒適區，就像我們在 22 和 23 年成長的相同投資組合（如薪資、農業企業、大型企業）一樣，我們從未停止成長。這只是盈利能力的問題。但自今年下半年以來，我們也開始發展其他投資組合，如消費品牌、金融、中小企業，這是我們決定介入的兩個建議。

We could have been more aggressive, but we chose to take care of the portfolio we had, take care of all of the origination assumptions, so that starting June and August, we would put more emphasis on that. So we start 2024 with the idea of maintaining what was growing and consolidate things that were started growing in the second half of '23. And in the customer base that we are operating, but we are careful enough to do that with the right clients, not seeking what the growth we had in 2021, but we want to grow in these lines as well. So come 2024, we will have greater diversification with different products, et cetera. I hope I answered your question.

我們本來可以更加積極，但我們選擇照顧我們擁有的投資組合，照顧所有的起源假設，因此從六月和八月開始，我們將更加重視這一點。因此，我們從 2024 年開始的想法是維持正在成長的事物，並鞏固 23 年下半年開始成長的事物。在我們正在營運的客戶群中，我們非常謹慎地與合適的客戶合作，而不是尋求 2021 年的成長，但我們也希望在這些領域實現成長。因此，到 2024 年，我們將透過不同的產品實現更大的多元化，等等。我希望我回答了你的問題。

We now have a second question from Gustavo Binsfeld from Goldman Sachs.

現在我們有高盛古斯塔沃·賓斯菲爾德提出的第二個問題。

Camila, Can you hear me? My question relates to provisions. During your presentation, you said you didn't see any deterioration throughout the quarter. But when we look in the long run, you we've been posting 2 years of high provision. So what is your view towards 2024? Do you believe that this year of transaction -- transition for the cost of credit or you see a trend towards normalization? Also, if you could comment on the corporate segment, there was a very specific case in that past quarter? Or whether you see any other specific one-off case in 2024.

卡蜜拉，你聽得到我說話嗎？我的問題涉及條款。在您的演講中，您表示整個季度沒有看到任何惡化。但從長遠來看，我們已經為您提供了兩年的高額準備金。那麼您對 2024 年有何看法？您是否認為今年的交易——信貸成本會轉變，或者您是否看到了正常化的趨勢？另外，如果您可以對企業部門發表評論，上個季度有一個非常具體的案例？或者您是否在 2024 年看到任何其他特定的一次性案例。

Okay. I'll start, and then I'll give the floor to Gustavo. We -- I mean the -- your question has 2 parts. One is the cost of credit. And the other is the absolute value of provisions. Okay, during the presentation, and I would reinforce that again is that we've been posting improvements in the cost of credit. I mean in the -- in that percentage, we've been posting an improvement in that line. So we still hope that this figure continues to improve going forward. So cost of credit has been improving, especially in this last quarter, once you remove that very one-off event, and Gustavo can comment on that.

好的。我先開始，然後請古斯塔沃發言。我們——我的意思是——你的問題有兩個部分。一是信貸成本。另一個是準備金的絕對值。好的，在演示過程中，我要再次強調的是，我們一直在提高信貸成本。我的意思是，在這個百分比中，我們已經發布了該行的改進。所以我們仍然希望這個數字繼續改善。因此，信貸成本一直在改善，特別是在最後一個季度，一旦你消除了一次性事件，古斯塔沃就可以對此發表評論。

So we still expect further improvements. I mean, even though we're not going to give you any guidance, allowance for loan losses, of course, there is the effect of the cost of credit per site. So when we accelerate the portfolio, as we've been doing starting in the second and the third and fourth quarter, and we hope to do the same towards 2024. I mean with a better portfolio, our ALL, we just move along in parallel, but we just hope that the cost is lower when compared to the average, but we continue to pursue a lower cost of credit. So ALL has a behavior that talks with the -- talks to the cost of credit. So by the same token -- cost of credit, we continue to go down. So yes, that's precisely it.

所以我們仍然期待進一步的改進。我的意思是，即使我們不會為您提供任何指導、貸款損失準備金，當然，每個站點的信貸成本都會產生影響。因此，當我們加速投資組合時，正如我們從第二季、第三季和第四季開始所做的那樣，我們希望在2024 年之前也能這樣做。我的意思是，有了更好的投資組合，我們的全部，我們只是並行前進，但我們只是希望與平均水平相比成本更低，但我們繼續追求更低的信貸成本。因此，ALL 有一種與信用成本對話的行為。因此，出於同樣的原因——信貸成本，我們繼續下降。是的，就是這樣。

And you asked about that one-off case in the corporate world. We understand that there wouldn't be any other relevant cases. We look at every case individually, and we make the necessary position adjustments. So -- looking forward in 2024, we don't see any relevant event in the corporate world in our portfolio.

您詢問了企業界的一次性案例。我們知道不會有任何其他相關案例。我們會單獨考慮每個案例，並做出必要的立場調整。因此，展望 2024 年，我們的投資組合中沒有看到企業界發生任何相關事件。

Brian Flores with Citibank. Welcome.

花旗銀行的布萊恩‧弗洛雷斯。歡迎。

Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. When about efficiency? How should we think about the income ratio close to 23%, close to 22 and in your review, what line should contribute more pertaining your goals.

感謝您給我提問的機會。什麼時候談效率？我們應該如何看待接近 23%、接近 22 的收入比率，以及在您的審查中，哪一條線應該對您的目標做出更多貢獻。

I'll start it then I'll turn the floor to Gustavo. Brian, thank you for the question. And for the opportunity to speak about income and expenses, there are 2 drivers here. Undoubtedly, we want to expand. And I started my conclusions talking about revenues. So of course, we are super focused on expanding, but expanding the revenues line item in the right way. We want to grow our revenue, which is the strength of our franchise, which is measured in the top line. We want to grow our revenues consistently. It will never be linear.

我先開始，然後請古斯塔沃發言。布萊恩，謝謝你的提問。為了有機會談論收入和支出，這裡有兩個司機。毫無疑問，我們想要擴張。我的結論是從收入開始的。因此，當然，我們非常專注於擴大收入，但以正確的方式擴大收入項目。我們希望增加收入，這是我們特許經營權的優勢，可以透過收入來衡量。我們希望持續增加收入。它永遠不會是線性的。

The world is not linear -- but we want to grow the top -- the revenues line. And I want us to be sustainable. I don't want to have hiccups in revenue. I don't want to have regrets. Of course, we can make mistakes, but we are careful to grow in the right way in each one of the segments and each one of the product portfolio. So part of the answer is, yes, we want to expand revenues.

世界並不是線性的，但我們希望擴大收入線。我希望我們能夠可持續發展。我不想收入出現問題。我不想有遺憾。當然，我們可能會犯錯誤，但我們會謹慎地在每個細分市場和每個產品組合中以正確的方式成長。所以部分答案是，是的，我們希望擴大收入。

In terms of revenue, of course, we'll have some increase in expenses. I don't want to give any guidance, but it is only natural because the business will require more volume and more expansion. We are hiring people as we speak, in some of the subsegments that there were specializing in. I mentioned mid-income and small companies small enterprises. We are specializing even more. And that requires more people. These are individuals or companies that need to be covered by people.

就收入而言，當然，我們的支出會增加。我不想給出任何指導，但這很自然，因為業務將需要更多的數量和更多的擴展。正如我們所說，我們正在招募一些專門從事的細分領域的人員。我提到了中等收入和小型企業。我們更加專業。這需要更多的人。這些是需要人員覆蓋的個人或公司。

We want to be truly multichannel, omnichannel. So in some lines of expenses, those will grow. But the question is, how will we fund those in the last quarter? We had to have a turnaround in mass retail. We had to reduce our base of expenses materially between 30% and 50%. That will give me the funding to invest where I need to invest. So I'll have a potential increase in expenses, but it must be a lot smaller than the increase in revenues, so that we'll have the crocodile mouth.

我們希望成為真正的多通路、全通路。因此，在某些方面的支出將會增加。但問題是，我們將如何在上個季度為這些資金提供資金？我們必須扭轉大眾零售業的局面。我們必須將開支基礎大幅削減 30% 到 50%。這將為我提供資金來投資我需要投資的地方。所以我的開支會有潛在的增加，但它必須比收入的增加小很多，這樣我們才會有鱷魚嘴。

And Gustavo, if you want to add?

古斯塔沃，如果你想補充的話？

That's exactly in 2024. We are seeing a deflation process. This will benefit us. We'll have a more efficient yields of the expenses that we have, the spending we have benefited by inflation, which is different than in the previous quarters. And this gradual and solid increase in revenues. So we see a positive evolution in terms of the level of efficiency. But it's basically what Mario said. It is very important to increase, expand our top line to gain speed and traction in resuming efficiency, okay?

那正是 2024 年。我們正在看到通貨緊縮過程。這將使我們受益。我們的支出、我們從通貨膨脹中受益的支出將獲得更有效的收益，這與前幾季不同。收入的逐步穩定成長。因此，我們看到效率水準出現了積極的演變。但這基本上就是馬裡奧所說的。增加、擴大我們的營收以獲得恢復效率的速度和牽引力非常重要，好嗎？

Next question from Mateus Raffaelli, Itaú BBA.

下一個問題來自 Itañ BBA Mateus Raffaelli。

Thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. I'd like to explore the expectations for client NII. I know that the funding spread post is down, but we see Santander with more appetite for clean lines vehicles. We expect growth and renegotiated portfolio as well. So perhaps you could elaborate on what you're expecting for client NII for 2024, do you expect a flat NII or dropping or expansion given the factors that I mentioned before?

感謝您給我提問的機會。我想探討一下對客戶 NII 的期望。我知道資金利差有所下降，但我們看到桑坦德銀行對清潔線路車輛的興趣更大。我們預計會出現成長並重新談判投資組合。因此，也許您可以詳細說明您對 2024 年客戶 NII 的預期，考慮到我之前提到的因素，您預計 NII 會持平還是下降或擴張？

Thank you, Mateus. I'll start. Well, directionally, like I said, nothing is linear. You should not expect anything linear from us or anybody else. But we want to grow the revenue. I spoke about this in the previous question. Of course, the revenue has some subblocks, but the NII is a fundamental block. It measures the strength of different types, together with fees.

謝謝你，馬特烏斯。我開始吧。嗯，從方向上來說，就像我說的，沒有什麼是線性的。您不應該期望我們或其他任何人提供任何線性的東西。但我們希望增加收入。我在上一個問題中談到了這一點。當然，收入有一些子塊，但NII是一個基本塊。它衡量不同類型的實力以及費用。

In client NII, it's even more precise. It measures the strength of the franchise. So we are very focused on that line and in the sub lines that make up client NII. You mentioned and I also mentioned in -- that in Q3 compared to Q4, we have a challenge because the Selic interest rate is dropping. As much as we increase the volume and spread as a percentage of CDI, if the Selic rate falls, it's a detractor. It's positive for the economy as a whole. We want to have a reduced interest rate, but for the liabilities line item, it will be a challenge. It will be a challenge for this year.

在客戶端 NII 中，它甚至更加精確。它衡量特許經營的實力。因此，我們非常關注該行以及構成客戶端 NII 的子行。您提到過，我也提到過，與第四季相比，第三季我們面臨挑戰，因為 Selic 利率正在下降。儘管我們增加了交易量和利差佔 CDI 的百分比，但如果 Selic 利率下降，就會產生負面影響。這對於整體經濟來說是正面的。我們希望降低利率，但對於負債項目來說，這將是一個挑戰。這對今年來說將是一個挑戰。

You can do the math you want, but anything between 20%, give or take of lower Selic rate in 2024 compared to 2023 is a challenge that we will have and the whole industry will have in terms of liabilities. What we can do is to expand even more our investments and our abilities agenda. I have spoken about how this is strategic for Santander. Some of those will offset with volume. I have some hedge in volume. We'll try to be pricing efficient as we try to be efficient in everything. And we'll offset that with credit NII because you mentioned we are more constructive in several line items. I mentioned, we want to have growth. It will not be equal in all portfolios, but I would like to have all portfolios growing over 2024, so that we wouldn't have any portfolio dropping or flat. And if we take care of spread on the side of assets and growing volume, sometimes we'll look for 2-digit growth, sometimes we'll grow just like the industry, but we'll pursue relevant growth in all credit portfolios.

你可以做你想做的數學計算，但與 2023 年相比，2024 年 Selic 利率降低 20% 之間的任何事情都是我們和整個行業將面臨的挑戰。我們能做的就是擴大我們的投資和我們的能力議程。我已經談到這對桑坦德銀行來說具有戰略意義。其中一些會隨著成交量而抵消。我對交易量進行了一些對沖。我們將努力提高定價效率，就像我們努力在所有事情上保持高效一樣。我們將用信用 NII 來抵消這一點，因為您提到我們在幾個專案中更具建設性。我提到過，我們希望實現成長。並非所有投資組合都相同，但我希望所有投資組合在 2024 年都能成長，這樣我們就不會出現任何投資組合下降或持平的情況。如果我們考慮到資產方面的利差和數量的增長，有時我們會尋求兩位數的增長，有時我們會像行業一樣增長，但我們會追求所有信貸投資組合的相關增長。

If we take care of the spread, we'll have a compound effect, and we have a good evolution in the client NII, credit NII that I think will be more than enough to offset the challenges we'll have given the Selic interest rate, not because of the strategy on the contrary because of the interest rate.

如果我們處理好利差，我們將產生複合效應，我們在客戶 NII、信貸 NII 方面有良好的發展，我認為這將足以抵消我們給 Selic 利率帶來的挑戰，不是因為策略相反是因為利率。

And you mentioned, well, Mario, there are different speeds of growth for the portfolios. So we have payroll deductible loans, SMEs, mortgages or auto. So the speed of growth among the portfolios will dictate the NII. Of course, we have to be very disciplined about pricing and volume. And the trend is that we'll be able to effectively balance the NII with the given challenges.

你提到，馬裡奧，投資組合有不同的成長速度。因此，我們有工資可扣除貸款、中小企業、抵押貸款或汽車貸款。因此，投資組合的成長速度將決定NII。當然，我們必須對定價和數量非常嚴格。趨勢是我們將能夠有效平衡國家資訊基礎設施與給定的挑戰。

But if we grow the portfolios in the speed, we believe we can and if we increase volume, we will be able to cope with this variable. So in a nutshell, of course, we're going to have a positive evolution in market NII, which is the implicit question here. We continue to expect it just like you all do, an evolution in market NII. It will happen. It is a given. And we expect to also evolve client NII with a net effect on one hand because we are going to have an anchor in funding given Selic. We will try to offset in the funding business and we'll have a net positive in client NII on the side of assets. And I hope I have answered.

但如果我們加快投資組合的成長速度，我們相信我們可以，而且如果我們增加交易量，我們將能夠應對這個變數。簡而言之，當然，我們的市場 NII 將會出現積極的演變，這是這裡隱含的問題。我們繼續像大家一樣期待 NII 市場的演變。它會發生。這是既定的。我們預計一方面也會對客戶 NII 產生淨效應，因為我們將在 Selic 的資助下建立一個錨點。我們將嘗試在融資業務中進行抵消，並且在資產方面我們將在客戶NII中實現淨正值。我希望我已經回答了。

Now the next question comes from Daniel Vaz from Bank of Safra.

現在下一個問題來自薩夫拉銀行的 Daniel Vaz。

I would like to hear your view about something that has been very recurring, which is payroll loans. There is a pressure on rates in and also an additional potential of a major digital player that wants to add share in 2024. First question, how do you advocate in favor of the product? Are you increased origination? And second question is, how do you see a potential increase in portability if the bank is expecting that? And how do you intend to defend yourself, maintaining cost of client, et cetera?

我想聽聽您對經常發生的事情的看法，即薪資貸款。對於希望在 2024 年增加份額的主要數位參與者來說，費率面臨壓力，同時也存在額外的潛力。第一個問題，您如何宣傳該產品？你的起源增加了嗎？第二個問題是，如果銀行期望如此，您如何看待可移植性的潛在成長？您打算如何保護自己，維持客戶成本等？

Thank you, Daniel. That's a recurring question about payroll deductible loans, and this is a very relevant question because this is part of the industry's portfolio. And for us, this is quite relevant. If you look at our expanded loan portfolio, our payroll portfolio is about 10% of our expanded loan portfolio. And that means this is a very relevant portfolio, and we are happy with it.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。這是一個關於工資可扣除貸款的反覆出現的問題，這是一個非常相關的問題，因為這是該行業投資組合的一部分。對我們來說，這非常相關。如果你看看我們擴大的貸款組合，我們的薪資組合約佔擴大的貸款組合的 10%。這意味著這是一個非常相關的投資組合，我們對此感到滿意。

How do you see -- how do we see the pricing and the competitive dynamics playing out? I mean, first of all, you mentioned the price selling pressure. It's very specific. It's not lower, but it's very specific related to INSS and as Santander, and I can certainly also speak on behalf of the entire industry, we don't think this is a pro consumer agenda. I mean the decisions that were made in this past year in terms of limiting the rate leads to origination volumes. And this is a fact, I'm not speculating the origination volume in practice is coming down a few million every month, maybe BRL 2 billion, even more every month. So if you multiply that by 12 months, it's BRL 25 billion to BRL 30 billion.

您如何看待—我們如何看待定價和競爭動態？我的意思是，首先，您提到了價格拋售壓力。這是非常具體的。它並不低，但它與 INSS 和桑坦德銀行非常具體，我當然也可以代表整個行業發言，我們認為這不是一個支持消費者的議程。我的意思是，去年在限制利率方面做出的決定導致了原始數量。這是事實，我並不是猜測實際的發起量每月會下降幾百萬，也許是 20 億雷亞爾，甚至每月更多。因此，如果將其乘以 12 個月，則為 250 億雷亞爾至 300 億雷亞爾。

And the INSS loan, which is the cheapest loan available in the market. I mean it competes with mortgage, mortgage loan. I mean it's certainly the cheapest kind of loan given to retirees and many of the potential borrowers have to resort to more expensive loans. So this is an agenda that does not favor consumers, and we are trying to tell the authorities about that. So I hope this year our advocacy is more successful. I mean there -- I just take this opportunity to say, I mean, we look at it, and we are very sad because we know that consumers are being hurt.

還有 INSS 貸款，這是市場上最便宜的貸款。我的意思是它與抵押貸款競爭。我的意思是，這無疑是向退休人員提供的最便宜的貸款，許多潛在藉款人不得不求助於更昂貴的貸款。所以這是一個不利於消費者的議程，我們正試著告訴當局這一點。所以我希望今年我們的宣傳能更成功。我的意思是——我只是藉此機會說，我的意思是，我們正在考慮這個問題，我們非常難過，因為我們知道消費者正在受到傷害。

Having said that, we are trying to rebalance our pricing equation because we do not want to let go of INSS. As I said, we grew a lot in this past year, 1.5 years, we gained momentum. And we grew the most with INSS. And I can assure you that, that was very profitable. So we are trying to rebalance the equation of fees. I mean, as with the rest of the industry, there is a great relevance coming from the external channel, the banking correspondent. We continue to have them, but we reduced the relevance of the external channel vis-a-vis the internal channels. So in practical terms, we are investing more to use INSS in our special stores.

話雖如此，我們正在嘗試重新平衡我們的定價方程，因為我們不想放棄 INSS。正如我所說，我們在過去的一年裡成長了很多，1.5 年，我們獲得了動力。我們透過 INSS 獲得了最大的成長。我可以向你保證，這是非常有利可圖的。因此，我們正在嘗試重新平衡費用等式。我的意思是，與行業的其他部分一樣，外部管道（銀行業務員）具有很大的相關性。我們繼續擁有它們，但我們降低了外部管道相對於內部管道的相關性。所以實際上，我們正​​在投入更多資金在我們的專賣店使用INSS。

We are making advances in terms of our reading of INSS audiences. We are churning some of our major stores into stores that focus on INSS loans. We are -- I mean, anyhow, the whole agenda is not very favorable. And this affects the entire industry. So I mean if you look at the historical format, therefore, we are trying to do it more things internally trying to keep our relationship with customers at different levels of profitability.

我們在 INSS 受眾的閱讀方面正在取得進展。我們正在將一些主要商店轉變為專注於 INSS 貸款的商店。我們——我的意思是，無論如何，整個議程並不是很有利。這影響到整個產業。因此，我的意思是，如果你看看歷史格式，我們正在嘗試在內部做更多的事情，試圖將我們與客戶的關係保持在不同的獲利水平。

In terms of competition from other digital banks, this is something like with any other player that is a new entrant, we are looking at those very carefully. But they -- the relevance of these banks are not yet affecting us. I mean we respect them. We think that their move is legit, but we would try to monitor that very attentively. But our agenda has to be focused on payroll and non-payroll clients. And we want them to look at Santander as their main bank with specialty steel -- specialty stores with omnichannel or multichannel approach. Not only for payroll, clients should look at Santander and see that we have a whole basket of things. I can have everything in one single bank. So we want to be a simpler bank and a more effective bank, as I said earlier.

就與其他數位銀行的競爭而言，這與任何其他新進者的競爭一樣，我們正在非常仔細地審視這些競爭。但它們——這些銀行的相關性還沒有影響到我們。我的意思是我們尊重他們。我們認為他們的舉動是合法的，但我們會盡力密切注意。但我們的議程必須集中在薪資和非薪資客戶。我們希望他們將桑坦德銀行視為其特種鋼材的主要銀行——採用全通路或多通路方式的專賣店。不僅在薪資方面，客戶還應該看看桑坦德銀行，看看我們有一整籃子的東西。我可以在銀行裡擁有一切。因此，正如我之前所說，我們希望成為一家更簡單、更有效率的銀行。

Daniel, it is precisely bad. We are making progress in the relative share of other banks is being reduced year-on-year. So there is an agenda of reduction. We are leveraging our digital footprint with a very strong agenda and we are also using our proprietary channel. Therefore, this is a move that we are already engaged in. In general, for the payroll portfolio, but we are also being more aggressive in other portfolios where we -- there was a higher dependency relies on third parties.

丹尼爾，這確實很糟糕。我們正在取得進展，其他銀行的相對份額正在逐年下降。因此，有一個削減議程。我們正在透過非常強大的議程來利用我們的數位足跡，並且我們也在使用我們的專有管道。因此，這是我們已經採取的舉措。總的來說，對於薪資組合，我們在其他投資組合中也更加積極，在這些投資組合中，我們對第三方的依賴程度更高。

We are moving at the right speed. But certainly, there are some market challenges like you said it yourself, but we are ready to defend our portfolio with these movements of lower Selic rate. Just to add another important point. We have INSS with payroll. We have private loans, and we have payroll deductible loans coming from the public sector. So there are pricing and competition dynamics that are different. But we are very pleased to say that we are evolving in all of them. So we do not want to rely on a single one, even though INSS is quite relevant. We do not want to rely on the government alone. Our agenda is very dynamic. So we're very pleased with the way things are evolving. That's why we are focusing on these lines going forward.

我們正在以正確的速度前進。但當然，存在一些市場挑戰，就像您自己所說的那樣，但我們準備好透過這些較低的 Selic 利率的變動來捍衛我們的投資組合。只是補充另一個重要的觀點。我們有 INSS 和薪資單。我們有私人貸款，也有來自公部門的薪水可扣除貸款。因此，定價和競爭動態是不同的。但我們很高興地說，我們在所有方面都在不斷發展。因此，儘管 INSS 非常相關，但我們不想依賴任何一個。我們不想單獨依賴政府。我們的議程非常活躍。因此，我們對事情的發展方式感到非常滿意。這就是我們未來關注這些產品線的原因。

Our next question comes from Bank of America. And the question is from Flavio Yoshida and welcome. Good morning.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行。問題來自弗拉維奧·吉田，歡迎提問。早安.

My question is about competition on your credit business or loan business. I think in the past few years, we saw not only you but other banks making adjustments to their portfolios. But now the risk appetite seems to be increasing. Therefore, I would just like to understand how you're getting prepared to face this more competitive environment. We see companies focusing on cards, ag and SME loans. And how is your feeling about demand for credit on the part of your clients?

我的問題是關於你們的信貸業務或貸款業務的競爭。我想在過去的幾年裡，我們不僅看到你們，也看到其他銀行在調整他們的投資組合。但現在風險偏好似乎正在增加。因此，我想了解你們如何準備好面對這個競爭更激烈的環境。我們看到公司專注於信用卡、農業和中小企業貸款。您對客戶的信貸需求有何看法？

Thank you, Flavio. It's a pleasure to talk to you again. Well, we are closely monitoring the competition dynamic. I would say that the speed and timing of this stepping on the brake has been different, depending on the bank in 2022 and 2023. Probably, we were one of the first, if not the first bank to say, okay, from '21 to '22. Performance is not good. So we would have to step on the break and then we would spend the next 2 years managing that. The fact that we were the first allowed us to manage that portfolio for a longer period of time.

謝謝你，弗拉維奧。很高興再次與您交談。嗯，我們正在密切關注競爭動態。我想說，踩剎車的速度和時機是不同的，這取決於2022 年和2023 年的銀行。也許，我們是第一家（如果不是第一家）從21 世紀到2023 年說“好吧”的銀行之一。 '22。性能不好。因此，我們必須採取休息措施，然後我們將在接下來的兩年裡進行管理。事實上，我們是第一個，這使我們能夠在更長的時間內管理該投資組合。

So in the midst of 2023, we say in addition to all the businesses that we were managing that we -- that were a part of that case like ag, et cetera, we can grow in other lines. It could be secured or maybe not secured, but in terms of hyper-personalization and segmentation, now our capacity has increased substantially when compared to what we had in 2021, also because technology evolved and the systems evolved as well. Therefore, in 2024, we are eager to grow our portfolio. We are more eager now than what we were in 2022 and '23. And certainly, the market as I always looking at the same clients, and each one will pursue answers at their own pace.

因此，在 2023 年中期，我們說，除了我們管理的所有業務（例如農業等）之外，我們還可以在其他領域成長。它可能是安全的，也可能是不安全的，但就超個人化和細分而言，與 2021 年相比，現在我們的容量已大幅增加，這也是因為技術和系統的發展。因此，到 2024 年，我們渴望擴大我們的投資組合。我們現在比 2022 年和 23 年更渴望。當然，市場就像我總是關注相同的客戶一樣，每個人都會按照自己的步調尋求答案。

But how are you going to deal with that? Well, maybe because we started sooner we have an advantage, and we will try to get better experiences vis-a-vis the competition. Again, we are focusing on principality, and the obsession is a buzzword for us. And we will certainly try to be the main bank to our clients.

但你打算怎麼處理呢？好吧，也許因為我們起步早，所以我們有優勢，我們會努力在競爭中獲得更好的體驗。再次，我們專注於公國，而痴迷對我們來說是一個流行詞。我們當然會努力成為客戶的主要銀行。

And there are many other things that we have no time to mention. We have -- we are -- we focus on customer centricity. We, in fact, will have an agenda that prioritize the demands from our clients. And certainly, this will also involve having a very good and profitable agenda for the bank, but we will try to pursue a balance with a competitive dynamic, and this does not only pertain to banks or incumbent banks, but this is a competition agenda that involves the capital market. We never had any difficulty in growing on the wholesale side. We could have grown a lot more than what we grew. We -- there was just a drop of 0.1 percentage points and we will also talk about the extended loan portfolio in 2024, because it will be easier to talk to you about that.

還有很多其他的事情我們沒有時間提及。我們一直專注於以客戶為中心。事實上，我們將制定一個優先考慮客戶需求的議程。當然，這也將涉及為銀行製定一個非常好的和有利可圖的議程，但我們將努力追求與競爭動態的平衡，這不僅涉及銀行或現有銀行，而且這是一個競爭議程，涉及資本市場。我們在批發方面的發展從來沒有遇到任何困難。我們本來可以成長得比我們成長的更多。我們——只下降了 0.1 個百分點，我們還將討論 2024 年擴大的貸款組合，因為與您討論這個問題會更容易。

But in terms of wholesale, it's a matter of profitability. There will be cases where we will be more of an investment bank, we will do a very quick portfolio rotation. And in the case that makes sense, we will include that client in our portfolio. It's just a matter of -- it's not just a matter of having more appetite, but the focus -- I mean there is more demand coming from retail.

但就批發而言，這是獲利能力的問題。在某些情況下，我們將更像是一家投資銀行，我們將進行非常快速的投資組合輪調。在有意義的情況下，我們會將該客戶納入我們的投資組合中。這只是一個問題——這不僅僅是一個有更多胃口的問題，而是一個焦點問題——我的意思是零售業有更多的需求。

Of course, there is demand from the wholesale side. But there is probably a delay in terms of major projects, major investments and even in M&A agendas because they demand acquisition investments. There was a large case in the first quarter. I mean, in that churn of quarters. But this hasn't been yet a very major inorganic agenda. So I hope that on the wholesale side, we expect to see a better evolution in 2024, but we are well prepared to face that.

當然，批發方面也有需求。但重大項目、重大投資甚至併購議程可能會出現延遲，因為它們需要收購投資。第一季有一個大案子。我的意思是，在那片混亂的季度裡。但這還不是一個非常重要的無機議程。因此，我希望在批發方面，我們預計 2024 年會出現更好的演變，但我們已經做好了面對這一點的準備。

Let's move to our last question with Guilherme Grespan with JPMorgan.

讓我們轉向摩根大通的 Guilherme Grespan 提出的最後一個問題。

Good morning. Thank you for your time and for taking my question. On our end, we'd like to tap into a different type of product. We spoke a lot about payroll deductible loans, and we're also talking about installment payment picks. We've seen some entrants being successful with a relevant contribution for their top line, particularly in the card business. If I'm not mistaken, you were the first, if not among the first, to launch the product in Brazil. We haven't heard so much about this product in the last 2 years. So I'd like you to share with us the challenges of the product, but what was right, what was wrong about it? And if this remains a relevant product for you. Thank you.

早安.感謝您抽出時間並回答我的問題。就我們而言，我們希望開發一種不同類型的產品。我們談了很多關於工資可扣除貸款的問題，我們也談論了分期付款的選擇。我們看到一些進入者取得了成功，為其營收做出了相關貢獻，特別是在信用卡業務領域。如果我沒記錯的話，您是第一個（如果不是第一個）在巴西推出產品的人。在過去的兩年裡，我們對這個產品的了解不多。所以我想讓你跟我們分享這個產品的挑戰，但什麼是對的，什麼是錯的？如果這仍然是您的相關產品。謝謝。

Right, soon after the government launched Pix, it was a very successful agenda. In 2022, we created Divide o Pix or Divide Pix. We wanted to connect a wire transfer with consumer alone. So we created Divide Pix. We have been growing in this agenda. The CP agenda also related to Pix, CP meaning consumer credit. And we did this calibrating with the risk appetite that was being adjusted for the new reality that we have to cope with in the right way, given the macro evolution that we had particularly in 2021. So we didn't want to grow it for the sake of growing because it was a new product.

就在政府推出 Pix 後不久，這是一個非常成功的議程。 2022 年，我們創建了 Divide o Pix 或 Divide Pix。我們想單獨與消費者連接電匯。所以我們創建了 Divide Pix。我們一直在這個議程上不斷成長。 CP議程也與Pix有關，CP的意思是消費信貸。考慮到我們特別是 2021 年的宏觀演變，我們根據風險偏好進行了調整，以適應我們必須以正確方式應對的新現實。因此，我們不想為了因為它是一個新產品，所以需要成長。

But it is a product that has been on our shelf for 2 years. We had no deployment implementation challenges. The big challenge is how fast we want it to grow in pure personal credit, because we reduced the client base that we wanted to operate with. We started operating with clients in the scale from 1 to 10. We were operating. continue to operate with clients scored 9 and 10 in our rating scheme, each bank has a different one.

但這是我們貨架上已經有兩年的產品了。我們沒有遇到部署實施方面的挑戰。最大的挑戰是我們希望純個人信用的成長速度有多快，因為我​​們減少了我們想要合作的客戶群。我們開始與規模從 1 到 10 的客戶合作。我們正在營運。繼續與我們的評級方案中得分為 9 和 10 的客戶合作，每家銀行都有不同的評級。

But just to give a dimension of how sensitive we are. And even in the more sensitive range, we were able to grow this in personal credit, including Divide o Pix and in the card basis we reported here. So we believe that this line item will evolve, looking forward. It's not specifically very relevant, although it started some time ago. But with time as Pix evolves, we want to be head in hand with the evolutions of the Brazilian Central Bank and so that we can engage clients more and more with us with installment Pix or other products. This is not so relevant yet, but we expect it to grow together with the personal credit or CP agenda.

但這只是為了衡量我們的敏感度。即使在更敏感的範圍內，我們也能夠在個人信用方面有所增長，包括 Divide o Pix 以及我們在此報告的卡基礎。因此，我們相信該訂單項將會持續發展，充滿期待。雖然它已經開始有一段時間了，但並不是特別相關。但隨著 Pix 的發展，我們希望能夠跟上巴西中央銀行的發展，這樣我們就可以透過 Pix 分期付款或其他產品吸引越來越多的客戶。這還不是那麼重要，但我們預計它會與個人信用或 CP 議程一起發展。

To speak less about the product and more about the client, we want clients to be served by Santander in all different ways. If they want to do with via FGTS, the workers' severance fund, that will be good. I prefer clients to finance a product that is better for them than a product that has a higher spread, but that I will have that operation, and I will not get the principality of the client. So we want to understand what is best for the client. And in personal credit, will speak -- we'll speak less about product and more about clients. But the installment Pix is a reality, and it will be more and more relevant for us and for the industry.

少談產品，多談客戶，我們希望桑坦德銀行能以各種不同的方式為客戶提供服務。如果他們想透過 FGTS（工人遣散費基金）來處理，那會很好。我更喜歡客戶為對他們更有利的產品提供資金，而不是為具有更高利差的產品提供資金，但我將進行該操作，並且我不會獲得客戶的收益。所以我們想了解什麼對客戶是最好的。在個人信用方面，我們將少談論產品，多談論客戶。但 Pix 分期付款已成為現實，它將與我們和整個行業越來越相關。

With this, I would like to thank you all for joining us this morning. Immediately after this video conference, myself and the entire Santander Brasil Investor Relations team will be available to answer any remaining questions you might have. Thank you very much. Have a great day, and see you next time. Again, thank you very much, and I hope to see you in the next call.

在此，我要感謝大家今天早上加入我們。本次視訊會議結束後，我本人和整個桑坦德銀行巴西投資者關係團隊將立即回答您可能提出的任何剩餘問題。非常感謝。祝您有美好的一天，下次再見。再次非常感謝您，希望在下次通話中見到您。

[Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]

[本筆錄中的英語陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。]