Banco Santander Brasil SA (BSBR) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

[Interpreted] Good morning, and thank you for joining us this morning to be with us during the results for the first quarter of 2024. This event is being broadcast live from our headquarters in Sao Paulo. And as always, it will be divided into 3 parts. First, our CEO, Mario Leao, will talk about the main highlights of the period and also the strategies by which we will continue to direct our growth in the coming quarters.

[解讀]早安，感謝您今天早上加入我們，與我們一起了解 2024 年第一季度的業績。像往常一樣，它將分為 3 部分。首先，我們的執行長 Mario Leao 將談論這段時期的主要亮點以及我們將繼續指導未來幾季成長的策略。

Next, our CFO, Gustavo Alejo, will present a detailed analysis of our performance. And finally, we will have our Q&A session, during which you will be able to interact directly with our leadership.

接下來，我們的財務長 Gustavo Alejo 將對我們的業績進行詳細分析。最後，我們將舉行問答環節，在此期間您將能夠直接與我們的領導層互動。

Before we begin, I would like to give you some instructions. We have 3 audio options on the screen, all the content in Portuguese, all the content in English or the original audio. The first 2 options will have simultaneous translation. To choose an option, just click on the button at the bottom center of your screen.

在我們開始之前，我想給你一些指示。螢幕上有 3 個音訊選項，所有內容均為葡萄牙語，所有內容均為英語或原始音訊。前 2 個選項將有同聲翻譯。要選擇一個選項，只需點擊螢幕底部中央的按鈕即可。

To ask questions during the Q&A session, simply click on the hand icon at the bottom of your screen. Questions will be answered in the language in which they are asked. Today's presentation is now available for download in our IR website.

要在問答環節提問，只需點擊螢幕底部的手形圖示即可。問題將以提出問題的語言來回答。今天的簡報現在可以在我們的 IR 網站上下載。

And now I hand it over to Mario Leao to begin the presentation.

現在我將其交給馬裡奧·萊奧（Mario Leao）開始演示。

[Interpreted] Good morning, everyone. It's a great pleasure to be with you during the release presentation of the first quarter. We are here live. And as usual, I'll start with a brief summary that we will further elaborate. I will give you the first takeaways for the quarter and what we expect going forward.

【翻譯】大家早安。很高興與您一起參加第一季的發布演示。我們在這裡直播。像往常一樣，我將從一個簡短的總結開始，我們將進一步詳細闡述。我將為您提供本季度的第一個要點以及我們對未來的期望。

Looking to the left of the screen here, we highlight a few numbers that show the evolution of some of our results accounts and also how we are positioning the bank for 2024 and going forward. So this is about 2024, but also, we will refer to the next coming years.

在螢幕左側，我們突出顯示了一些數字，這些數字顯示了我們一些業績帳戶的演變，以及我們如何為銀行 2024 年及未來定位。所以這大約是 2024 年，但我們也會提到未來幾年。

Our NII is growing 14%. We will then highlight that it grows both in terms of market NII and client NII. We have a positive market NII after quite some time. We also have fees and funding growing at 2 digits. And this is quite important because it reinstates what we've been mentioning to the market, which is the need to diversify our portfolio. We build our first initial growth cycle with great reliance on the market and credit, especially low income. So since 2022, we've been pursuing credit, but a more diversified loan portfolio.

我們的 NII 成長了 14%。然後我們將強調它在市場 NII 和客戶 NII 方面都在成長。經過一段時間後，我們的市場NII 為正值。我們的費用和資金也以兩位數的速度成長。這非常重要，因為它重申了我們一直向市場提到的內容，即需要使我們的投資組合多樣化。我們在很大程度上依賴市場和信貸（尤其是低收入）來建立第一個初始成長週期。因此，自2022年以來，我們一直在追求信貸，但貸款組合更加多元化。

And also, we want to increase fees out of a very large base. And also, we would -- we wanted to put more emphasis in funding. So this quarter, we show you how diversified our portfolio is with important and significant numbers, okay? Also, we have [AOL] like going down. Our diversification of our portfolio is good. We are building new vintages since 2022 with a better credit quality. We've been testing and retesting our loan portfolio.

而且，我們希望在一個非常大的基礎上增加費用。而且，我們希望更重視資金投入。因此，本季度，我們將透過重要且顯著的數字向您展示我們的投資組合是多麼多元化，好嗎？此外，我們還有[AOL]喜歡下降。我們的投資組合多元化很好。自 2022 年以來，我們正在釀造信用品質更好的新年份葡萄酒。我們一直在測試並重新測試我們的貸款組合。

And we have an expanded loan portfolio growing at almost 2 digits, and also new portfolios, portfolios that we chose that we wanted to grow them further above 2 digits. And with that, we arrived at a result of slightly above BRL 3 billion, and this is a level that we are pleased to announce because it's been a while since we reached that level, and I would say that the quality of this BRL 3 billion means that we are resuming growth. We are now changing or correcting the course of our operation, and this has been very successful. So this BRL 3 billion is a very sound number, very net with no one-offs in the results. And that makes us very pleased. And we are constantly working towards going further.

我們擴大了貸款組合，其成長速度接近兩位數，還有新的投資組合，我們選擇的投資組合希望將其進一步成長至兩位數以上。至此，我們得出了略高於 30 億雷亞爾的結果，我們很高興宣布這個水平，因為我們達到這個水平已經有一段時間了，我想說這 30 億雷亞爾的質量意味著我們正在恢復增長。我們現在正在改變或糾正我們的運作方式，這非常成功。因此，這 30 億雷亞爾是一個非常合理的數字，非常淨，沒有一次性的結果。這讓我們非常高興。我們不斷努力走得更遠。

ROE is slightly above our cost of equity measured by the marketing. In the third quarter, we saw the resumption of ROE. And in the first quarter, we already know that we are on the right track.

淨資產收益率略高於我們透過行銷衡量的股本成本。第三季度，我們看到ROE有所恢復。在第一季度，我們已經知道我們正走在正確的軌道上。

On the right-hand side, I would like to show you some of the main takeaways that we refer to the quarter, but they are also messages for the year. And I would like to say that they are all quite important. First of all, we are in the midst of a transformation. In January, we launched it, and throughout the first quarter, we developed what we call a very encompassing transformation to our store model. We will elaborate further on that. But in summary, we revisited the way we operate in the stores, the way the stores are set up. And now in fact, our experience is much more connected and more multichannel with great differentiation.

在右側，我想向您展示我們提到的本季度的一些主要要點，但它們也是今年的訊息。我想說，它們都非常重要。首先，我們正處於轉型之中。一月份，我們推出了它，在整個第一季度，我們對我們的商店模式進行了所謂的全面轉型。我們將進一步詳細說明這一點。但總而言之，我們重新審視了商店的運作方式和商店的設置方式。事實上，現在我們的體驗更加互聯、更加多管道且具有巨大的差異化。

Together with the redesign of our stores, our service is quite unique for SMEs. We are operating in a more assertive way and more enforceable way around the stores. We redefined the way we cover our mid-income clients. We call them Van Gogh clients. They were covered by the stores. And now this would combine the entire flow of the store as a whole with SMEs. And now we are serving mid-income through regionalized platforms throughout Brazil. And with that, we have a better capacity to serve these mid-income clients, which can represent great profitability for the bank.

加上我們商店的重新設計，我們的服務對於中小企業來說非常獨特。我們在商店周圍以更自信、更可執行的方式運作。我們重新定義了涵蓋中等收入客戶的方式。我們稱他們為梵谷的客戶。他們被商店覆蓋了。現在這將把商店的整個流程與中小企業結合起來。現在，我們透過巴西各地的區域化平台為中等收入群體提供服務。這樣，我們就有更好的能力為這些中等收入客戶提供服務，這可以為銀行帶來巨大的獲利能力。

And now we are also delivering something that I've been mentioning to the market for quite some time because we are now revisiting our massive retail business, and we launched that recently. This is more than a new offering for mass retail, but this represents a full repositioning of the Santander brand, the way we communicate, the way we relate to the client. And this is for mass retail, which is the bulk of our business. And so we are now in a much more assertive and simpler position.

現在我們也提供了一些我已經向市場提到了很長一段時間的東西，因為我們現在正在重新審視我們龐大的零售業務，並且我們最近推出了該業務。這不僅是針對大眾零售的新產品，而且代表了桑坦德銀行品牌、我們溝通方式以及我們與客戶聯繫方式的全面重新定位。這是針對大眾零售，這是我們大部分的業務。因此，我們現在處於更自信和簡單的立場。

Now moving on to Slide 5. Here, I will start by talking about customer centricity. We are extremely focused and obsessed, I would say, in maintaining and gaining client principality. We want to be a bank that is more present in the lives of our clients. And to that end, we are working very hard in all fronts, channels, segments and products.

現在轉到投影片 5。我想說，我們非常專注並且著迷於維護和獲得客戶的主導權。我們希望成為一家更多融入客戶生活的銀行。為此，我們在各條戰線、各通路、各細分領域、各產品上都非常努力。

Down below to the left of the screen, we see a positive evolution of NPS. Year-on-year, our NPS has been improving substantially in all channels, in all segments. And if we look at it by product, we also see significant improvements in credit cards, et cetera. That means that we are really grabbing this topic of customer experience with a lot of assertiveness.

在螢幕左側下方，我們看到 NPS 的積極演變。與去年同期相比，我們的 NPS 在所有通路、所有細分市場都得到了大幅改善。如果我們以產品來看，我們也會看到信用卡等方面的顯著改善。這意味著我們確實非常自信地抓住了客戶體驗這個主題。

We are never satisfied. We want to improve continuously year-on-year, and it is no different this year. We have clients with vintages that are even better. So the argument that in previous vintages, we have the seasonality effect that we know it very well and we've been talking about it for quite some time, Gustavo and the IR team, our vintages are becoming increasingly better. The more recent vintages from 2023, it's already improving. We improved 56% of profitability of this vintage.

我們永遠不會滿足。我們希望逐年不斷提高，今年也不例外。我們的客戶擁有更好的年份。因此，古斯塔沃和 IR 團隊認為，在之前的年份中，我們有季節性效應，我們非常了解這一點，我們已經討論了很長一段時間，我們的年份變得越來越好。從 2023 年開始，最近年份的葡萄酒已經有所改善。該年份的獲利能力提高了 56%。

The 2022 vintage also showed profitability improvement. And the oldest vintages profitability is coming down because of that portfolio itself. We grew a lot between '20 and '21, and we know that throughout the years and even in 2024, this carries over a cost. And gradually, this is being diluting in terms of what we are doing with our new vintages.

2022 年年份的獲利能力也有所改善。由於該投資組合本身，最古老年份的獲利能力正在下降。我們在 20 世紀到 21 年間成長了很多，我們知道這些年來甚至到 2024 年，這都會帶來成本。漸漸地，隨著我們對新年份酒的處理，這種影響正在被稀釋。

We also have loyal customers that is growing year-on-year. Of course, we will try to grow more our loyal customers because they bring us more profitability. Therefore, the entire strategy is centered in the client because we want to be a more active bank and be an important part of our clients' life.

我們也擁有逐年成長的忠實客戶。當然，我們會努力培養更多忠實的客戶，因為他們為我們帶來了更多的利潤。因此，整個策略以客戶為中心，因為我們希望成為一家更活躍的銀行，並成為客戶生活中的重要部分。

Here, I just highlight some growth leverages, and I start with Select. We've been talking about Select for quite some time in a very consistent way. We've been talking in a very consistent way of many of the topics related to the bank, and that is part of the strategy that we defined in 2022 and perfected in 2023. This is the strategy we are pursuing. And I hope that in many years to come, I will still talk about that.

在這裡，我只是強調一些成長槓桿，我從選擇開始。我們已經以非常一致的方式討論 Select 相當一段時間了。我們一直在以非常一致的方式討論與銀行相關的許多主題，這是我們在 2022 年制定並在 2023 年完善的策略的一部分。我希望在未來的許多年裡，我仍然會談論這個。

High income is a great focus of Santander. Select is a great way to have more active and loyal customers. Not very long ago, we had 600,000 Select customers. And now that number jumped to 1 million clients. I said that we had the ambition of reaching 1 billion, but last quarter, we surpassed that 1 billion number. So now we are pursuing 2 million Select customers, and we hope to reach that number in the mid and short run.

高收入是桑坦德銀行的一大關注點。 Select 是吸引更多活躍和忠誠客戶的好方法。不久前，我們有 60 萬名精選客戶。現在這個數字躍升至 100 萬客戶。我說我們有達到10億的雄心，但上個季度，我們超過了10億這個數字。所以現在我們正在爭取200萬精選客戶，我們希望在中短期內達到這個數字。

We are growing consistently. We're bringing investing clients. We are also bringing borrowing clients. We are not a partner of investing clients. We have a lot of our clients in the Select basket, and the portfolio is no less than BRL 68 billion. Together with that, we also have the best net funding in our history for Select if we look at the next slide in the entire retail or the entire bank as a whole.

我們正在持續成長。我們正在帶來投資客戶。我們也帶來了借貸客戶。我們不是投資客戶的合作夥伴。我們在精選籃子裡有很多客戶，投資組合不少於 680 億雷亞爾。除此之外，如果我們看看整個零售業或整個銀行的下一張幻燈片，我們還擁有歷史上最好的 Select 淨融資。

So on the side of the Select investing client, we are improving our work, consolidating our strategy when we redesigned Select 2 years ago and also to introducing our AAA channel. And everything is absolutely integrated with the offering we have for the client.

因此，在 Select 投資客戶方面，我們正在改進我們的工作，鞏固我們兩年前重新設計 Select 時的策略，並引入我們的 AAA 管道。一切都與我們為客戶提供的產品完全整合。

Next page, Page 7, I emphasize investments. As I said, since -- as I've been saying since 2022, there was a gap in our business portfolio. We acknowledge that, and so we started to focus on the liability side of the balance sheet. And so with that, we could redesign our funding mix of the bank because in the past, it was mostly focused on institutional customers, wholesale rather than retail individuals, et cetera.

下一頁，第7頁，我強調投資。正如我所說，自 2022 年以來我一直在說，我們的業務組合存在缺口。我們承認這一點，因此我們開始關注資產負債表的負債面。因此，我們可以重新設計銀行的融資組合，因為在過去，它主要關注機構客戶、批發而非零售個人等。

And so this is another way to consolidate our strategy. Of course, this is not a sprint, but it's a marathon. We've been constantly focused on that strategy and the strategy will not -- we will not let go of that strategy. Our retail segment captures 80% more year-on-year for individuals in comparison to last year. So there was a significant leap in retail loan. We went from BRL 7.2 billion, of which BRL 5 billion came from this advisory channel, which is our AAA channel. We are consolidating the AAA.

這是鞏固我們策略的另一種方式。當然，這不是短跑，而是馬拉松。我們一直專注於該戰略，而該戰略不會——我們不會放棄該戰略。與去年相比，我們的零售部門為個人帶來的收入年增了 80%。因此，零售貸款出現了顯著的飛躍。我們從 72 億雷亞爾開始，其中 50 億雷亞爾來自這個諮詢管道，這是我們的 AAA 管道。我們正在鞏固 AAA。

We haven't even reached the number of 2,000 advisers, but we believe that this is the right number if we want to have a very good level of coverage. This is the lowest number in the market, means -- which means that this is a very unique capacity that we have to advise our people in this AAA channel.

我們甚至還沒有達到 2,000 名顧問的數量，但我們相信，如果我們想要擁有非常好的覆蓋水平，這個數字就是正確的。這是市場上最低的數字，這意味著——這意味著這是一種非常獨特的能力，我們必須在這個 AAA 管道中為我們的員工提供建議。

In the quarter, we had inflows between BRL 3 million to BRL 7 million per adviser, and this is a big leap when compared to last year, means that we are consolidating our strategy. We want to grow that even further, but we are already at a very good level.

本季度，我們每位顧問的資金流入在 300 萬雷亞爾到 700 萬雷亞爾之間，與去年相比這是一個巨大的飛躍，這意味著我們正在鞏固我們的策略。我們希望進一步發展，但我們已經處於非常好的水平。

Toro, our digital brokerage firm, I mean, we are looking at ways to integrate it better and to have a unique approach in terms of being multichannel at the same time, digital for individuals brokerage firm. It got funding of over BRL 3 billion, over [20] of AuC and retail is growing as a whole. And our private had funding of almost BRL 3 billion in the quarter. We hope to expedite that further.

Toro，我們的數位經紀公司，我的意思是，我們正在尋找更好地整合它的方法，並在同時實現多通路、數位化個人經紀公司方面採用獨特的方法。它獲得了超過 30 億雷亞爾的資金，超過 [20] 的 AuC，零售業整體成長。我們的私人公司在本季獲得了近 30 億雷亞爾的資金。我們希望進一步加快這一進程。

We've been seen as the best private banking throughout Brazil, and we are gaining market share. So as a whole, I mean, in terms of investment, things are now changing. We are looking on the on and off balance sheet side. And I'm sure that this will be one of the major differentiation leverages of our business, and this will help us grow even more.

我們被視為巴西最好的私人銀行業務，我們正在擴大市場份額。總的來說，我的意思是，就投資而言，現在情況正在改變。我們正在關注資產負債表內外。我確信這將成為我們業務的主要差異化槓桿之一，這將幫助我們實現更大的成長。

Here, I will talk about our strategic business. I would just like to highlight to the market, the areas where we chose to focus on and why and how we are delivering. We are focusing on 4 major businesses. First is credit cards, this is gaining momentum every time we have our earnings release. So now since last year, we started to sell cards in a different way and that boosted the sales of credit cards.

這裡我講一下我們的策略業務。我只想向市場強調我們選擇關注的領域以及我們交付的原因和方式。我們專注於4大業務。首先是信用卡，每次我們發布財報時，信用卡的勢頭都會增強。所以從去年開始，我們開始以不同的方式銷售信用卡，這促進了信用卡的銷售。

We have the same level of appetite, but the technology is much more advanced in terms of the capacity to personalize clients, to personalize those that are nonclients or clients that we want to acquire, or those that we do not want to acquire. So we have a higher capacity to activate clients that we already have in our customer base. So we are growing our credit card base. We are selling more cars than what we did in the past, and this is bringing about increase in revenues. Turnover of credit cards is increasing. And every quarter, we increase total revenue. In fact, we are increasing average customer spending, and we are, at the same time, increasing our customer base.

我們有同樣的胃口，但在個人化客戶、個人化非客戶或我們想要獲得的客戶或我們不想獲得的客戶方面，科技要先進得多。因此，我們有更高的能力來啟動我們客戶群中已有的客戶。因此，我們正在擴大信用卡基礎。我們銷售的汽車比過去多，這帶來了收入的增加。信用卡的營業額不斷增加。每季我們的總收入都會增加。事實上，我們正​​在增加平均客戶支出，同時我們也在擴大我們的客戶群。

So I would say that it's the first time since 2021 that we see an increase in the customer base in a quarter [near] of 3%, what I show in the second chart. And our turnover is growing even more. We are growing our customer base and our spending per customer is growing consistently.

因此，我想說，這是自 2021 年以來我們第一次看到客戶群在一個季度內成長[接近] 3%，如我在第二張圖表中所示。我們的營業額還在持續成長。我們正在擴大客戶群，每個客戶的支出也持續成長。

Next, I will talk about payroll loans. This is something that I've been referring to consistently. So since 2022, we are working to gain traction with the right level of risk. Our credit performance has improved. It's better than the average of the system. We are posting record origination. The portfolio is growing to BRL 72 billion. And so this is a very robust number.

接下來，我將談談薪資貸款。這是我一直提到的事情。因此，自 2022 年以來，我們正在努力以適當的風險等級獲得牽引力。我們的信用表現有所改善。比系統的平均水準好。我們正在發布記錄起源。該投資組合已增至 720 億雷亞爾。所以這是一個非常強勁的數字。

So in summary, payroll loan, which is a very competitive product, as you all know, because you have incumbent banks, average-sized bank and digital banks are all part of this basket. So our multichannel approach for payroll loan is also something that helped us boost this line. Our payroll is quite consolidated with -- among governments, and our payroll loans is also very strong when it comes to the private sector.

綜上所述，薪資貸款是一個非常有競爭力的產品，眾所周知，因為現有的銀行、中等規模的銀行和數位銀行都屬於這個籃子。因此，我們的多通路薪資貸款方法也幫助我們提高了這條線。我們的薪資單與政府之間相當整合，而且我們對私部門的薪資貸款也非常強勁。

Now, the consumer finance. Our consumer finance is a market leader. We are operating above 20% and we have approximately 21%. We're not talking about a quota per se, but our origination levels are record levels. We started the year at the same pace that we started last year. Ever since last August, I mean, August of last year, we've been working very hard to expedite or to grow our Consumer Finance segment.

現在，消費金融。我們的消費金融是市場領導者。我們的營運率超過 20%，大約為 21%。我們不是在談論配額本身，而是我們的原始水準是創紀錄的水準。我們以與去年相同的速度開始了這一年。自從去年八月以來，我的意思是去年八月，我們一直在努力加快或發展我們的消費金融部門。

Through the last 12 -- 18 months, we made all of the necessary adjustments to our portfolio, and now is the time to resume our operation. We are very rigorous. We remain very rigorous. Our customer base is quite sound, and we are, at the same time, growing our portfolio with positive conditions in terms of our operations with merchant stores and large OEMs. So everything is working as planned.

在過去的 12 到 18 個月裡，我們對我們的投資組合進行了所有必要的調整，現在是恢復營運的時候了。我們非常嚴謹。我們仍然非常嚴謹。我們的客戶群相當健全，同時，我們正在擴大我們的產品組合，在與商店和大型原始設備製造商的業務方面具有積極的條件。所以一切都按計劃進行。

In terms of agribusiness, growth is positive, not agribusiness as a whole, but some crops face more challenging years than others, like soybean and corn, whereas some other crops have more -- have a more positive year. For -- I mean, Santander entered into agribusiness 7 or 8 years ago. This week, we will have the agribusiness show, and we will be there. We will continue to grow in this agricultural segment, but we might not grow as much as we grew in the past 2 years. But we grew more in some aspects of agri, but we are constantly monitoring things on a case-by-case basis, but in the mid and long range, as it has to be in the case of agribusiness.

就農業綜合企業而言，成長是積極的，而不是整個農業綜合企業，但有些作物面臨比其他作物更具挑戰性的年份，例如大豆和玉米，而其他一些作物則有更多的年份，有更積極的年份。我的意思是，桑坦德銀行在七、八年前就進入了農業綜合企業。本週，我們將舉辦農業綜合企業展，我們將會參加。我們將繼續在這個農業領域成長，但我們的成長可能不會像過去兩年那麼快。但我們在農業的某些方面取得了更大的發展，但我們會根據具體情況不斷進行監測，但要在中長期範圍內進行監測，就像農業綜合企業的情況一樣。

Now talking about corporate business, on the left-hand side, in terms of our SME segment, we want to double the business. We believe that, that business can be doubled in the next few years, and that is what we will look for. We will grow together with our clients. We are growing in terms of loan -- of our loan portfolio.

現在談論企業業務，在左邊，就我們的中小企業部門而言，我們希望將業務增加一倍。我們相信，未來幾年業務可以翻一番，這就是我們所尋求的。我們將與客戶共同成長。我們的貸款組合正在成長。

And zooming in, in terms of what you're doing for SMEs. In practical terms, we are removing the service to SMEs in our stores, but now we are replacing them by experts scattered around the stores and covering the micro regions. And we are growing that team. We are putting hundreds of people in addition to what we have because we want SMEs to be better served.

並放大，看看你為中小企業所做的事情。實際上，我們正​​在取消門市對中小企業的服務，但現在我們用分散在門市各地、覆蓋微觀區域的專家來取代它們。我們正在壯大這個團隊。除了現有人員之外，我們還增派了數百名人員，因為我們希望為中小企業提供更好的服務。

We are also decreasing the average coverage ratio. We are improving the number of visits per day, and we want to dominate and to master the micro regions. The stores will be like a hub, but we will no longer have an expert in the store just to serve people that walk into the stores. But we will rather go where the companies are rather than having them come to us. This is a very innovative mode of action, and I think we will have substantial gains.

我們也降低了平均覆蓋率。我們正在提高每天的訪問量，我們想要主導並掌握微觀區域。商店將像一個中心，但我們將不再有專家在店裡只是為走進商店的人們提供服務。但我們寧願去公司所在的地方，也不願讓他們來找我們。這是一個非常創新的行動方式，我想我們將會有實質的收穫。

In terms of large corporate, we are still increasing our franchise. It's increasing very soundly. We are #1 or #2. And we have several consistent lead tables. We have an investment banking franchising that is becoming more and more consolidated. Of course, we are not yet leaders in this equity market, but in terms of fixed income, we are performing quite well. Our first quarter performed quite well. Our fixed income side, it's moving quite well, whereas equity and M&A is still progressing, still advancing. But we are growing in terms of revenue, and we've been very disciplined in terms of large corporate, not necessarily we are looking for quotas, obviously, with a major focus in profitability.

在大企業方面，我們仍在增加我們的特許經營權。它的成長非常穩健。我們是#1或#2。我們有幾個一致的線索表。我們的投資銀行特許經營業務正變得越來越鞏固。當然，我們還不是這個股票市場的領導者，但在固定收益方面，我們表現得相當不錯。我們第一季的表現相當不錯。我們的固定收益方面進展順利，而股票和併購仍在進展，仍在前進。但我們在收入方面正在成長，而且我們在大公司方面一直非常自律，顯然我們不一定在尋求配額，主要關注的是獲利能力。

And since the fixed market -- the fixed capital market is very robust, we simply sometimes leave other operations to go by, and we operate more as a distributor rather than somebody -- a company that is carrying out the balance sheet.

由於固定市場——固定資本市場非常強勁，我們有時只是把其他業務放在一邊，我們更多地作為分銷商而不是某人——一家執行資產負債表的公司來運作。

This is my last slide, and then I'll pause. This is probably the most important topic of today's session because this is a summary, and I'll try to be brief. This is a summary of our repositioning, the relaunching of our mass retail strategy. But before I go into the proposal and the positioning itself that we call Comeca Agora or starting now. Why are we doing this now? What is the backdrop? And what led us to make this decision now? I mean, equally important is how.

這是我的最後一張投影片，然後我會暫停。這可能是今天會議最重要的主題，因為這是一個總結，我會盡量簡短。這是我們重新定位、重新啟動大眾零售策略的總結。但在我討論提案和定位本身之前，我們稱之為 Comeca Agora 或現在就開始。我們為什麼現在要這樣做？背景是什麼？是什麼促使我們現在做出這個決定？我的意思是，同樣重要的是如何做。

The first major thing is that we are a digital-first operation. We're not digital only, well, and that's good because we are a multichannel operation. Well, more than 90% of our clients use our app. We have a growth of over 1/3 of the number of people that go to the stores. There was a 20% reduction in the number of calls to our customer service line. We've been educating our clients and the market also educated clients. Therefore, our relationship is mostly digital.

第一件重要的事情是我們是一家數位優先的企業。我們不僅僅從事數位業務，這很好，因為我們是一家多通路營運公司。嗯，超過 90% 的客戶使用我們的應用程式。我們去商店的人數增加了超過 1/3。撥打我們客戶服務專線的次數減少了 20%。我們一直在教育我們的客戶，市場也在教育客戶。因此，我們的關係主要是數位化的。

Secondly, we have a remote conversational, which is quite robust. We have the capacity to serve clients and that number of calls answered is 97%. People are increasing the use of the chatbot. Most incumbent banks build that over the phone, and we did that as well. So we are migrating telephone chats over to the chatbot. This is non-generative interaction, and then we have chat 1. We are also adding Gen AI to support us and to increase productivity and also to increase our capacity to serve the client.

其次，我們有一個非常強大的遠端對話。我們有能力為客戶提供服務，電話接聽率達97%。人們正在增加聊天機器人的使用。大多數現有銀行都是透過電話建立的，我們也這麼做了。因此，我們正在將電話聊天遷移到聊天機器人。這是非生成性交互，然後我們進行聊天 1。

So we have the digital on the one side and the remote conversational on the other side. And so at the beginning of the year, we launched the redesign of our stores. I already talked about the issue of SMEs and mid-income. What do we do at the beginning? I mean we removed the expert that used to serve mid-income clients, and we introduced midrange platforms and the Van Gogh platforms. In fact, these are physical spaces in our stores that are either in the store or in some other separate offices.

因此，我們一方面採用數位技術，另一方面採用遠端對話技術。因此，在今年年初，我們啟動了商店的重新設計。我剛才已經講過中小企業和中等收入者的問題。一開始我們做什麼？我的意思是，我們取消了過去為中等收入客戶服務的專家，並引入了中端平台和梵谷平台。事實上，這些是我們商店中的實體空間，要么位於商店內，要么位於其他一些單獨的辦公室中。

Therefore, we are able to serve customers in a very regionalized way, and more personalized. And these experts can be more proactive and reactive as well, but they operate in a more assertive way. And this increased our capacity to also acquire mid-range or mid-income clients, and this is an important launch that we did at the beginning of the year. Therefore, the store is no longer the owner of a client portfolio, and this is the leap we gave because the store had its own results coming from results of real estate mortgage from years ago or credit cards that were sold a year ago, et cetera, et cetera.

因此，我們能夠以非常區域化的方式為客戶提供服務，並且更加個人化。這些專家也可以更主動和被動，但他們的運作方式更有自信。這提高了我們獲取中檔或中等收入客戶的能力，這是我們在年初所做的一項重要推出。因此，商店不再是客戶組合的所有者，這是我們給予的飛躍，因為商店有自己的業績，來自多年前的房地產抵押貸款的結果或一年前出售的信用卡等等等。

So now the store is the Santander store or the Santander branch that has finally become a point of sale and a point of service. It's a convenience element. It's part of our value proposition, a multichannel value proposition. And as part of our service to all clients of the bank, clients that are served through free, they can go to the store, they can have assisted sales through added value or even a private client that can use the stores for anything they need. And the experts will be measured by the sale of the day, and they will measure by how well they sold and how well they served the client. Therefore, our incentive models are up to date, and they contemplate sales and service to clients. And therefore, now we are more earmarked to the needs of the store, and this is when we give that definite leap.

所以現在的商店是桑坦德商店或桑坦德分店，最後成為一個銷售點和一個服務點。這是一個便利的元素。這是我們價值主張的一部分，即多通路價值主張。作為我們為銀行所有客戶提供服務的一部分，透過免費服務的客戶可以去商店，他們可以透過增值來協助銷售，甚至私人客戶可以使用商店來滿足他們需要的任何東西。專家將根據當天的銷售額來衡量，他們將根據他們的銷售情況和為客戶提供的服務來衡量。因此，我們的激勵模式是最新的，並且考慮對客戶的銷售和服務。因此，現在我們更加專注於商店的需求，這就是我們做出明確飛躍的時候。

And with all of that, finally, we give our definite leap towards mass retail, and this is the relaunching of our value proposition, but the scope is much broader, which is the scope of our rebranding, our brand repositioning, our repositioning in terms of market communication and of our signature. So what can we do for you today, which is our slogan is now changed to Comeca Agora, it starts now. It's very powerful because it starts with our restarting in terms of mass retail.

有了這一切，最後，我們向大眾零售邁出了明確的一步，這是我們價值主張的重新啟動，但範圍要廣泛得多，這是我們的品牌重塑、我們的品牌重新定位、我們的重新定位的範圍市場溝通和我們的簽名。那麼今天我們能為您做些什麼呢，我們的口號現在改為 Comeca Agora，現在就開始。它非常強大，因為它始於我們在大眾零售方面的重啟。

We start with all of our clients. This is the beginning of the project, of the activity, the beginning of the dream, the beginning of the investment, of consumption. It's a day full of beginnings. And from this point forward, we are positioned as a bank that is more present in the lives of our clients. We want to be present in every new beginning of our client.

我們從所有客戶開始。這是專案、活動的開始，夢想的開始，投資、消費的開始。這是充滿開始的一天。從現在開始，我們的定位是成為一家更融入客戶生活的銀行。我們希望參與客戶的每一個新的開始。

So this new value proposition and this new position of the bank for mass retail and the bank as a whole is a very, very significant step of the bank. And I would like to break the protocol and then share with you a video that tells you a bit more of the campaign. It's a very short video. And from here on, I'll stop and Gustavo can bring the numbers.

因此，這個新的價值主張以及銀行對大眾零售和整個銀行的新定位是銀行非常非常重要的一步。我想打破這個協議，然後與您分享一段視頻，向您介紹更多有關該活動的資訊。這是一個非常短的影片。從現在開始，我會停下來，古斯塔沃可以帶來數字。

(presentation)

（推介會）

[Interpreted] Thank you, Mario. Good morning, everyone. So after the video, let's start this presentation with the results of net interest income, NII, which highlights our resumption of growth. NII grew by 14.5% compared to the previous year and by 7.3% over the last quarter, showing a positive performance on both client and market NII, which is very important.

[翻譯]謝謝你，馬裡奧。大家，早安。因此，在影片結束後，讓我們從淨利息收入 (NII) 的結果開始本次演示，它凸顯了我們的恢復成長。 NII年成長14.5%，季增7.3%，顯示出客戶NII和市場NII的正面表現，這一點非常重要。

In Q1 '24, we continued to see the same trends that we highlighted at the end of 2023, such as increase in our retail credit portfolio and the decrease in the Selic rate, benefiting our cost of funding. In addition, the growth in spread levels with controlled credit quality, which I will detail a little later, demonstrates our assertive strategy of gradually resuming our business dynamics.

在 24 年第一季度，我們繼續看到我們在 2023 年底強調的相同趨勢，例如我們的零售信貸投資組合的增加和 Selic 利率的下降，這有利於我們的融資成本。此外，在信貸品質受控的情況下利差水準的成長（我稍後將詳細介紹）顯示了我們逐步恢復業務活力的堅定策略。

Market NII, on the other hand, is showing a continuous evolution, and it's at a positive level, in line with the expectations we've been talking about with the market in previous quarters. We are optimistic about NII performance, which should positively reflect the resumption of growth.

另一方面，市場NII正在呈現持續演變，並且處於積極水平，與我們在前幾個季度與市場討論的預期一致。我們對NII 表現持樂觀態度，這應積極反映成長的恢復。

On the following slide, Slide 14, I'm going to comment on our loan portfolio, which grew by 5%, highlights our retail in the individuals segment and auto loans and SMEs. In the corporate segment, as Mario mentioned, we saw a more competitive credit environment, and we will prioritize profitability. In addition, we recorded significant growth of 23% in our private securities and guarantees portfolio over the last 12 months, which resulted in a total growth of 8.1% in the expanded portfolio.

在下面的幻燈片（幻燈片 14）中，我將評論我們的貸款組合，該組合增長了 5%，突出了我們在個人細分市場以及汽車貸款和中小企業的零售業務。在企業領域，正如馬裡奧所提到的，我們看到了更具競爭力的信貸環境，我們將優先考慮獲利能力。此外，在過去 12 個月中，我們的私人證券和擔保投資組合顯著成長了 23%，導致擴大後的投資組合總成長 8.1%。

As for individuals, payroll loans and credit cards performed well despite the seasonality of the previous quarter that we always see, particularly in cards. With regards to payroll loans, we've advanced more quickly than the market, expanding our market share. Year-over-year growth was 17% and quarter-on-quarter 6%, very robust.

至於個人，薪資貸款和信用卡表現良好，儘管我們總是看到上一季的季節性，特別是信用卡。在薪資貸款方面，我們的進步速度快於市場，擴大了我們的市場份額。年成長 17%，季增 6%，非常強勁。

In auto loans, we saw more benign scenario throughout the market, and we are following this recovery, maintaining our leading position in this segment with the market share that was mentioned. And it's important to comment once again on our solid performance in agribusiness with 39% growth year-on-year. And this is important for our strategy.

在汽車貸款方面，我們看到了整個市場更加良性的情況，我們正在跟隨這種復甦，以前面提到的市場份額保持在該細分市場的領先地位。重要的是要再次評論我們在農業綜合企業中的穩健表現，年增 39%。這對我們的戰略很重要。

On Slide 15, we have some important points about our performance in terms of liabilities. Over the course of 12 months, we've seen a 10% growth compared to the previous year, which comes mainly from time deposits and real estate LCI and agribusiness LCA credit notes. Despite the recent regulatory changes, we managed to grow these exempt securities in a satisfactory way in the last quarter.

在投影片 15 中，我們有一些關於我們在負債方面的表現的重要觀點。在過去的 12 個月裡，我們看到與前一年相比增加了 10%，這主要來自定期存款和房地產 LCI 以及農業綜合企業 LCA 信用票據。儘管最近發生了監管變化，但我們在上個季度仍以令人滿意的方式增長了這些豁免證券。

There might be other changes and challenges regarding the funding of these securities at the retail level, but we have a strategy. In any case, we are making progress in implementing our growth strategy, aiming to achieve a mix with greater retail exposure, as already mentioned in our strategic vision. As a result, looking at the last 3 years, we have seen an increase of 2 percentage points in the individuals to end company's ratio. And this is a long stretch race. In addition, the loan-to-deposit ratio continues to post its best historical levels at approximately 94%.

關於這些證券在零售層面的融資可能還會出現其他變化和挑戰，但我們有一個策略。無論如何，我們在實施成長策略方面正在取得進展，旨在實現更大的零售業務組合，正如我們的策略願景中已經提到的那樣。因此，縱觀過去 3 年，我們發現個人與最終公司的比例增加了 2 個百分點。這是一場漫長的比賽。此外，貸存比持續維持在94%左右的歷史最佳水準。

I will now detail the performance of our fees. We saw a slight contraction in the quarter due to seasonal factors, as you know. On the other hand, we saw a very positive expansion throughout the year, year-on-year, growing 12.8% due to the resumption of credit and the greater transactionality of our clients. The expansion of credit has played an important role, increasing revenues and loan operations. We also had an increase in cards turnover and sales, as mentioned, with higher spending by clients.

我現在將詳細介紹我們的費用表現。如您所知，由於季節性因素，我們看到本季度略有收縮。另一方面，由於信貸的恢復和客戶交易量的增加，我們全年實現了非常積極的擴張，比去年同期成長 12.8%。信貸擴張發揮了重要作用，增加了收入和貸款業務。如同前面所提到的，隨著客戶支出的增加，我們的卡片營業額和銷售額也有所增加。

Moving to insurance. Even considering the quarterly seasonality, our performance in the segment remained robust. This result is driven by the sales of new products and the drop in the number of cancellations. In other words, better performance in the insurance operation year-over-year.

轉向保險。即使考慮到季度季節性，我們在該領域的表現仍然強勁。這一結果是由新產品的銷售和取消數量的下降所推動的。換句話說，保險業務的表現比去年同期更好。

On the next slide, we present detail on the quality of our assets. The quality of our assets. Excluding the atypical one-off effects we had in the previous quarter, we observed that the allowance for loan losses, [AOLL], remained stable in the quarter with no signs of worsening. This stability, coupled with the expansion of the portfolio resulted in a fall in the cost of credit of 70 bps in 12 months ending Q1 '24 at 3.8%.

在下一張投影片中，我們詳細介紹了我們的資產品質。我們的資產品質。排除上一季的非典型一次性影響，我們觀察到貸款損失準備金 [AOLL] 在本季度保持穩定，沒有惡化的跡象。這種穩定性，加上投資組合的擴張，導致信貸成本在截至 24 年第一季的 12 個月內下降了 70 個基點，降至 3.8%。

And it is worth noting that the lower volume of recoveries of written-off loans comes from a more careful approach to our collection services as we have already been signaling a more selective criteria for proceeding with renegotiation. Such policy also has an impact on the volume of renegotiated portfolio, which continues to post a downward trend in relation to the total portfolio reaching 6% and increasing its coverage to 54.3%.

值得注意的是，核銷貸款回收量的減少是由於我們對催收服務採取了更加謹慎的態度，因為我們已經發出了進行重新談判的更具選擇性的標準的信號。此類政策也對重新協商的投資組合數量產生影響，重新協商的投資組合數量相對於總投資組合持續呈下降趨勢，達到 6%，覆蓋率增加至 54.3%。

Lastly, NPL formation fell slightly, still affected by defaults on the renegotiated portfolios. This effect will continue as we make progress in purging these portfolios plus the impact of some seasonality, but the impact is under control.

最後，不良貸款形成略有下降，仍受到重新談判投資組合違約的影響。隨著我們在清理這些投資組合方面取得進展，加上一些季節性的影響，這種影響將持續下去，但影響仍在控制之中。

Now let's move on to the next slide and focus on the performance of our delinquency indicators. As mentioned by Mario, after a period of 2 years dedicated to adjustments, we have a well-balanced loan origination and properly adjusted portfolios. With regard to the short-term indicator, although there was no change in the overall indicator, we saw, as you can see, an improvement in the individuals segment. This improvement was offset by the last positive performance of corporate and SMEs. These are one-off effects and do not cause us any concern.

現在讓我們轉到下一張投影片，專注於拖欠指標的表現。正如馬裡奧所說，經過兩年的努力調整，我們擁有了均衡的貸款來源和適當調整的投資組合。關於短期指標，雖然整體指標沒有變化，但正如你所看到的，我們看到個人部分有所改善。這一改善被企業和中小企業上次的積極表現所抵消。這些都是一次性影響，不會引起我們任何擔憂。

The long-term indicator, well, it has a marginal variation of 30 basis points in small and midsized enterprises by virtue of the renegotiated portfolio and seasonality. I have already mentioned in the previous quarter that there might be some variation.

長期指標，由於重新談判的投資組合和季節性因素，中小企業的邊際變化為 30 個基點。我在上一季已經提到過，可能會有一些變化。

On the next slide, we'll talk about expenses. We saw a 5% drop in administrative and personnel expenses quarter-on-quarter. This decline is mainly due to the seasonality of administrative expenses, which typically occur in the last quarter of the year. And personnel expenses were influenced by the adjustment in the variable compensation with a 4.6% impact on salary adjustment in 2023, the impact of the collective bargaining agreement.

在下一張投影片中，我們將討論費用。我們看到行政和人事費用較上月下降了 5%。這種下降主要是由於管理費用的季節性，通常發生在每年的最後一個季度。人員費用受到變動薪資調整的影響，對2023年薪資調整（集體談判協議的影響）產生4.6%的影響。

However, what matters is that the optimization of our footprint has been fundamental to supporting our control of expenses, and we'll continue our quest to expand our business while reducing the cost to serve. This is very important for the way we manage our expenses. And this has been very satisfactory so far. As a result of our effective management, as I have just mentioned, combined with the recovery in revenues that we saw in the quarter, we saw an improvement of 3.3 percentage points in our efficiency ratio in the quarter, which is now below 40%, which is very positive.

然而，重要的是，優化我們的足跡對於支援我們控制費用至關重要，我們將繼續尋求擴大我們的業務，同時降低服務成本。這對於我們管理開支的方式非常重要。到目前為止，這已經非常令人滿意了。正如我剛才提到的，由於我們有效的管理，再加上本季收入的恢復，我們看到本季的效率提高了 3.3 個百分點，目前效率低於 40%，這是非常積極的。

Now let's move to our earnings results. We'll present our income statement. Year-on-year, we saw 14% increase in total revenues driven by NII and fees. We kept AWL and expenses under control, which led us to post a net income of BRL 3 billion, up 41% in 12 months. Profitability improved to 14.1% ROE, and we ended the first quarter of '24 with a solid balance sheet, as shown by our CET Tier 1.

現在讓我們看看我們的獲利結果。我們將提交我們的損益表。與去年同期相比，NII 和費用推動的總收入成長了 14%。我們控制了 AWL 和費用，這使我們的淨利潤達到 30 億雷亞爾，在 12 個月內增加了 41%。獲利能力提高至 14.1% ROE，並且我們在 2024 年第一季結束時擁有穩健的資產負債表，如我們的 CET Tier 1 所示。

Lastly, the results obtained are in line with our expectations, and we are committed to developing a more stable and sustainable results base, focusing on continuously and gradually increasing our profitability.

最後，所取得的業績符合我們的預期，我們致力於建立更穩定和可持續的業績基礎，專注於持續、逐步提高我們的獲利能力。

Thank you very much. I'll turn the floor to Mario for his final remarks.

非常感謝。我將請馬裡奧發表最後的演講。

[Interpreted] Thank you, Gustavo. Excellent. So here to end, and so that we have time for a detailed Q&A, I have 5 main messages, take-home messages. These are messages related to the quarter, but that I would like to stress with you investors, analysts and the whole market for the whole year and for our future positioning.

[翻譯]謝謝你，古斯塔沃。出色的。到此結束，為了讓我們有時間進行詳細的問答，我有 5 個主要信息，值得帶回家。這些是與本季相關的訊息，但我想向各位投資者、分析師和整個市場強調全年以及我們未來的定位。

So our first big message, we believe in a consistent revenue growth due to a portfolio diversification, new more calibrated vintages, given a super clear strategy we defined in the past and which we are following with a lot of discipline, with no surprises, without one-offs. And we have a positive outlook of revenue growth throughout 2024. We expect this will continue for market and clients, and our whole strategy revolves around that.

因此，我們的第一個重要訊息是，我們相信，由於投資組合多元化，新的更校準的年份，收入將持續增長，考慮到我們過去定義的超級明確的策略，並且我們正在嚴格遵循該策略，沒有意外，沒有一次性的。我們對 2024 年營收成長持樂觀態度。

Our cost of credit continues to improve, and we will -- we think that this will continue to improve throughout 2024. We are looking for a more profitable portfolio. All of the measures I mentioned were implemented with a lot of rigor since 2022. We've had credit origination for new clients and for the current ones following the same policy, the same approach we've been following since 2022.

我們的信貸成本持續改善，我們認為這種情況將在 2024 年持續改善。我提到的所有措施自 2022 年以來都非常嚴格地實施。

We continue to work to grow the business that we choose to grow. It doesn't mean we'll grow equally for all of them and for all client bases, but we choose some businesses for which we want to bring the clients closer to us, the famous bank principality. And we think that this will be consistent and continue to grow over the next quarters.

我們將繼續努力發展我們選擇發展的業務。這並不意味著我們會為所有客戶和所有客戶群實現平等成長，但我們會選擇一些業務，希望拉近客戶與我們（著名的銀行公國）的距離。我們認為這種情況將保持一致，並在接下來的幾個季度繼續增長。

We had a leap in our physical and multichannel operation, launching a new positioning for the stores and effectively integrating the stores to our multichannel approach, what we call continuous conversational. The store is linked to the chat, which is linked to the app, so with a continuous customer experience. In our view, this will bring a leap in the clients' relationship with us.

我們在實體和多通路營運方面取得了飛躍，為商店推出了新的定位，並將商店有效地整合到我們的多通路方法中，即我們所說的持續對話。商店與聊天鏈接，而聊天又與應用程式鏈接，因此具有持續的客戶體驗。我們認為，這將為客戶與我們的關係帶來飛躍。

And the Comeca Agora, starting now, when we are launching mass retail and how we position the bank as a whole in relation to the market, how we communicate, our tone of voice, our color, our campaigns and how we make it all more tangible in a more powerful, simple digital experience, which we believe will bring a lot more clients, which are inactive now and will become active in new clients who will want to be a Santander client in the free proposal or other value propositions.

Comeca Agora，從現在開始，當我們推出大眾零售時，我們如何定位整個銀行與市場的關係，我們如何溝通，我們的語氣，我們的顏色，我們的活動以及我們如何使其變得更加美好更強大、更簡單的數位體驗是有形的，我們相信這將帶來更多現在不活躍的客戶，並將在希望成為桑坦德銀行客戶的免費提案或其他價值主張的新客戶中變得活躍。

With that, I end. Thank you very much, and we are going to start the Q&A. Thank you very much.

我就這樣結束了。非常感謝您，我們將開始問答。非常感謝。

[Interpreted] Thank you, Mario. Thank you, Gustavo. Now we initiate our Q&A session from now on. Everybody will have the opportunity to clarify any issue or point. If you have questions, just click on that hand icon in your screen. We will answer the questions in the language as they are asked. I would like analysts to ask just one question. But at the end, you can ask for further clarification.

[翻譯]謝謝你，馬裡奧。謝謝你，古斯塔沃。現在我們開始我們的問答環節。每個人都有機會澄清任何問題或觀點。如果您有疑問，只需單擊螢幕上的手形圖示即可。我們將用他們提出的語言回答問題。我希望分析師只問一個問題。但最後，您可以要求進一步澄清。

Our first question comes from Daniel Vaz from Safra Bank.

我們的第一個問題來自 Safra 銀行的 Daniel Vaz。

[Interpreted] First of all, I would like to learn more about your net funding dynamics. The AAA channel was quite strong this quarter. I mean the net inflow per adviser, I think increased by BRL 5 billion in terms of net inflows through that channel. That was quite strong. And in the private segment, you were slightly below the other cores.

【解讀】首先，我想了解你們的淨資金動態。本季 AAA 通路表現相當強勁。我指的是每位顧問的淨流入，我認為就通過該管道的淨流入而言，增加了 50 億雷亞爾。那是相當強了。在私人領域，你的成績略低於其他核心。

As the market is a bit more pessimistic, how do you see differences in terms of these fundings, I mean comparing these 2 channels, AAA and private?

由於市場比較悲觀，您如何看待這些資金方面的差異，我的意思是比較這兩個管道，AAA 和私人？

[Interpreted] Thank you, Daniel, for your question, and thank you for joining us this morning. As a whole, when we look at our individual business as a whole, that includes private. The quarter was very good in our view. We were very pleased with the results. But every quarter that we come to you and then we comment on the results, we see the consolidation of a strategy that is like a huge marathon. This is a topic that we've been referring to for many years.

[翻譯]謝謝丹尼爾提出的問題，也謝謝您今天早上加入我們。總體而言，當我們將個人業務視為一個整體時，其中包括私人業務。我們認為該季度非常好。我們對結果非常滿意。但每個季度我們都會去找您，然後對結果進行評論，我們都會看到策略的整合，就像一場巨大的馬拉松。這是我們多年來一直提到的一個主題。

I started since talking about that in 2022 because we had to make -- to change the game. So every quarter when we meet, I am pleased to say that we are indeed growing. We have a very good offering. We -- our coverage proposal is quite sound. And of course, we have a range of products that finds no parallel in the market.

我從 2022 年就開始談論這個問題，因為我們必須改變遊戲規則。所以每個季度當我們見面時，我都會很高興地說我們確實在成長。我們有非常好的產品。我們—我們的覆蓋範圍提案非常合理。當然，我們擁有一系列市場上獨一無二的產品。

We had a better performance in the retail. AAA is a major arm for us to get funding in the retail side, but we have Select and AAA, both are doing quite an impressive work. And in addition to high income, Daniel, because we keep gaining more relevance in this redesign of the mid-income bracket that I mentioned, we have a great opportunity to serve these clients better because there are millions.

我們在零售方面有更好的表現。 AAA 是我們在零售方面獲得資金的主要管道，但我們有 Select 和 AAA，兩者都做了相當令人印象深刻的工作。除了高收入之外，丹尼爾，因為我們在我提到的中等收入階層的重新設計中不斷獲得更多的相關性，我們有一個很好的機會更好地為這些客戶提供服務，因為有數以百萬計的客戶。

And of course, with the offering of free, we hope to bring more clients on board or more clients back to us. And the investments, they are not long-term investments, but day-to-day investments, I think, will come our way much more frequently. Private was less impacting or when compared to what happened in previous quarters, but nothing that cause us to be concerned.

當然，透過提供免費服務，我們希望吸引更多客戶加入或更多客戶回到我們身邊。我認為，這些投資不是長期投資，而是日常投資，我們會更頻繁地進行投資。與前幾季相比，私人的影響較小，但沒有什麼值得我們擔心的。

Maybe the notes -- the financial notes is not especially a private product, but it affects all products because in the past, people used to buy incentivated notes. But because of other things that came to play probably that had a drop and this probably put on hold the demand from our private clients.

也許票據——金融票據並不是特別私人產品，但它影響所有產品，因為過去人們習慣購買激勵票據。但由於其他因素的影響，可能會下降，這可能會擱置我們私人客戶的需求。

Last year, as I said, it was a record year for us. We continue to grow in this first quarter, therefore, for me, is not the summary of what we expect the rest of the year to be as any other investment line with individuals is like this. So every year, every quarter, I want to place Santander where it belongs.

正如我所說，去年對我們來說是創紀錄的一年。我們在第一季繼續成長，因此，對我來說，這並不是我們預期今年剩餘時間的總結，就像任何其他個人投資線一樣。所以每年、每季，我都想把桑坦德放在它該在的地方。

In terms of these letras financeiras or financial notes, we saw that there was a pickup. There is a rebound in the quarter. It was a bit stagnated before, but now we hear people say that they are gaining momentum or gaining relevance. If you look at the month of March, do you think that this funding through financial notes are picking up?

就這些金融票據或金融票據而言，我們看到有所回升。本季出現反彈。以前有點停滯，但現在我們聽到人們說他們正在獲得動力或獲得相關性。如果你看看三月份，你認為透過財務票據融資的情況是否有所增加？

Well, I'm not going to talk about April. I'll talk about April soon enough. But we saw a [value] that the market experienced the same thing, maybe 2 weeks or maybe a month, there was a drop in volume. But then later on, all of the issuers found their place under the sun. So there -- they used to be -- there was a period of a gap or a value or volumes decrease in this affected private more than individuals retail.

好吧，我不打算談四月。我很快就會談論四月。但我們看到[價值]市場經歷了同樣的事情，可能兩週或一個月，成交量下降。但後來，所有的發行人都在陽光下找到了自己的位置。因此，過去是這樣，有一段時期的缺口或價值或數量下降，這對私人零售的影響比對個人零售的影響更大。

So I believe that both in terms of those financial notes and the commercial activity because you do not rely on a single product, we will see a more impressive growth going forward. But it was a positive funding, which was good, and we will try to get more and more, and this will certainly consolidate our wealth management portfolio as well. Thank you.

因此，我相信，無論是在這些財務票據還是商業活動方面，因為您不依賴單一產品，所以我們將看到未來更令人印象深刻的成長。但這是一筆正面的資金，這很好，我們將努力獲得越來越多的資金，這也肯定會鞏固我們的財富管理組合。謝謝。

[Interpreted] Now I'll call Mario Pierry from Bank of America. Hello, Mario, welcome.

[翻譯] 現在我要打電話給美國銀行的 Mario Pierry 。你好，馬裡奧，歡迎光臨。

[Interpreted] Congrats on your results. I would like to focus on market NII. We saw positive results after 7 quarters of losses. I mean, if I look at the delta year-on-year, it's almost BRL 1.5 billion in results. I would just like to understand your views about how this line will evolve, particularly if the Selic rate drops in a more gradual way when compared to what was expected earlier on. I just want to understand the trend. How do you see this line and whether this change in the Selic landscape would have a negative or positive impact?

[解讀]恭喜你取得好成績。我想重點關注市場NII。在經歷了 7 個季度的虧損之後，我們看到了積極的成果。我的意思是，如果我按年查看增量，結果幾乎為 15 億雷亞爾。我只是想了解您對這條線將如何演變的看法，特別是如果與先前的預期相比，Selic 利率以更漸進的方式下降。我只是想了解一下趨勢。您如何看待這條線以及塞利克景觀的這種變化是否會產生負面或正面影響？

[Interpreted] Well, I can start, and then I'll turn it over to Gustavo. Thank you, Mario, for joining us. I mean throughout these negative quarters, you mentioned 7 of them, we've been constantly talking to you whenever we meet that it was very clear to us what the itinerary of that line would be. I said at the beginning of our session today that historically, we had a great reliance on that market NII. And I think you are familiar with that from '21 to '22, you can see the size, the magnitude of that lower level, almost BRL 10 billion.

[解釋] 好吧，我可以開始了，然後我會把它交給古斯塔沃。謝謝你，馬裡奧，加入我們。我的意思是，在這些負面季度中，您提到了其中的 7 個季度，每當我們見面時，我們都會不斷地與您交談，我們非常清楚該線路的行程是什麼。我在今天會議開始時說過，從歷史上看，我們非常依賴該市場 NII。我認為你很熟悉從 21 世紀到 22 世紀，你可以看到較低的規模和幅度，幾乎 100 億雷亞爾。

Therefore, we started to reprice the portfolio throughout the years. Part of that improvement comes from the [repricing] of the pre-fixed portfolio of our consumer finance segment. And the other part of it comes from the reduction in the Selic rate, which reduces our funding need of that portfolio. So the fact that we entered into a positive number, I think that came as a surprise to you. It's just a result of something that we had previously indicated before, and we just hope that this line continues to perform well throughout the year.

因此，多年來我們開始對投資組合重新定價。這種改善的部分原因來自於我們消費金融部門的預先固定投資組合的[重新定價]。另一部分來自 Selic 利率的降低，這減少了我們對該投資組合的資金需求。因此，我們輸入的值為正數這一事實，我認為這讓您感到驚訝。這只是我們之前指出的結果，我們只是希望這條線在今年繼續表現良好。

Selic affects in part the pre-curve. The fact that the pre-curve was up, that leads us to understand that the curve of our pre segment will be more expensive. So we have to higher the prices to our end customers, and we're trying to keep the same level of profitability. Therefore, if the environment is such, and we won't be able to make adjustments in that pre portfolio and have to let go of spreads and that maybe this will lead to changes in our profitability.

Selic 部分影響前曲線。事實上，預曲線向上，這讓我們了解到預段的曲線會更昂貴。因此，我們必須向最終客戶提高價格，並努力保持相同的獲利水準。因此，如果環境是這樣的，我們將無法對前期投資組合進行調整，而不得不放棄利差，這可能會導致我們的獲利能力發生變化。

And on the other hand, how much it will cost to carry that over with a Selic that moves lower, that means that the results will also take longer to recover. Therefore, there might be some effect, yes. But given the fact that we are not anticipating any change in course, we don't expect Selic rates to go up again as part of the market believed that, that would happen. Now we are more positive because interest rates should go down. So we don't think that interest rates will go up again next year. Therefore, we are not concerned and the trend of this curve will be reversed. But I'll now hand it over to Gustavo.

另一方面，如果 Selic 的價格走低，那麼要花費多少成本，這意味著結果也需要更長的時間才能恢復。因此，可能會有一些影響，是的。但考慮到我們預計不會發生任何變化，我們預計 Selic 利率不會再次上漲，因為部分市場相信這種情況會發生。現在我們更加積極，因為利率應該會下降。因此我們認為明年利率不會再上升。因此，我們並不擔心這條曲線的趨勢會逆轉。但現在我將把它交給古斯塔沃。

[Interpreted] Mario, it's good to talk to you. Well, it's precisely it. I mean the course has not been altered. We are moving with more or less speed in terms of Selic cuts. So maybe the script will be the same, but maybe the distribution of where the script would go might change. But in fact, things didn't change. So even with the fact that Selic is not dropping as fast as we expected, we also have the benefit of the pre-curve which has a positive inclination.

[翻譯]馬裡奧，很高興和你說話。嗯，正是如此。我的意思是課程沒有改變。我們在 Selic 削減方面或多或少地進展得很快。因此，腳本可能是相同的，但腳本所在位置的分佈可能會改變。但事實上，事情並沒有改變。因此，即使 Selic 的下降速度沒有我們預期的那麼快，我們也可以從具有正傾向的前曲線中受益。

It still came to the positive side. And since that is positive, things are well underway. Again, we are not changing the script. The direction is very clear to us. The direction is very clear. Maybe we just have to review that direction in the coming quarters, right?

它仍然走向積極的一面。由於這是積極的，所以事情正在順利進行。再說一次，我們不會改變劇本。我們的方向非常明確。方向非常明確。也許我們只需要在未來幾季重新審視這個方向，對吧？

[Interpreted] Next question from Eduardo Rosman with BTG. Hello, Rosman.

[解釋] Eduardo Rosman 與 BTG 提出的下一個問題。你好，羅斯曼。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the results. My question is about principality. I think that all banks are talking about principality. That's the name of the game. And we also saw during the presentation the importance of payrolls for loyal customers. So I'd like to know about your strategy. How do you see the strength in the scenario of evolving open finance, which is one of the objectives of the Brazilian Central Bank?

[解讀]恭喜結果。我的問題是關於公國的。我認為所有銀行都在談論公國。這就是遊戲的名字。我們在演示中也看到了薪資單對於忠實客戶的重要性。所以我想了解你們的策略。您如何看待不斷發展的開放金融（巴西央行的目標之一）的力量？

And some banks are very excited that this could unlock the private payroll loan. So what is the Santander positioning regarding payrolls? And how do you want to attack rather than just defending the bank in a scenario when payrolls may lose some value in the future?

一些銀行對這可以解鎖私人工資貸款感到非常興奮。那麼桑坦德銀行對薪資的定位是什麼？在未來薪資可能會失去一些價值的情況下，你想如何攻擊而不是只是保衛銀行？

[Interpreted] Excellent question, Rosman. We continue to believe a lot in the importance of payrolls for Santander. Santander is one of the big payrolls bank, and we are very happy with that positioning. We don't want to give it up. It doesn't mean that we would have to pay somebody to have their payroll. We are very disciplined about the value of the payrolls and how profitable they can be. But it continues to be a pillar, and we don't think that this is going to change in the next few years.

[解釋]很好的問題，羅斯曼。我們仍然堅信薪資對桑坦德銀行的重要性。桑坦德銀行是大型薪資銀行之一，我們對此定位非常滿意。我們不想放棄它。這並不意味著我們必須付錢給某人才能獲得他們的薪水。我們對工資的價值及其獲利能力非常嚴格。但它仍然是一個支柱，我們認為這一點在未來幾年內不會改變。

It is true that potentially detractor elements or challenging elements, a strategy of paying for payroll, gaining principality through payroll. These detractors or challenging factors are growing, but we see open finance as a very positive agenda. It's also an opportunity for us. It's not necessarily aiming to remove value from incumbent banks and Santander. In my view, it will improve the value of Santander as long as we have the right approach.

確實，潛在的批評因素或挑戰因素是一種支付工資的策略，透過工資獲得主權。這些批評者或挑戰因素正在增加，但我們認為開放金融是一個非常積極的議程。這對我們來說也是一個機會。它不一定旨在消除現有銀行和桑坦德銀行的價值。我認為，只要我們採取正確的方法，就會提高桑坦德銀行的價值。

If we have an attitude of attacking rather than being in the defense, of course, if you're in the offense, you have to be in the defense, but we have to be a net winner, not a net loser. How do we do that with our offering? Payroll is a vehicle through which I have access to a client base. Payroll in and of itself ensures very little, just a checking account, possibly a salary checking account. But I don't want the mechanic element of payrolls, Rosman. I want the element that will allow me to have principality.

如果我們的態度是進攻而不是防守，當然，如果你進攻，你必須防守，但我們必須成為淨贏家，而不是淨輸家。我們如何透過我們的產品做到這一點？薪資是我接觸客戶群的工具。薪資本身保證的很少，只是一個支票帳戶，可能是一個薪資支票帳戶。但我不想要薪資單中的機械元素，羅斯曼。我想要能讓我擁有統治權的元素。

So payroll is a vehicle. How can I gain principality, which is what is really a game changer, which will bring profitability in the bottom line. It is by having the right offering, and it means a number of things. We can detail that. But in a nutshell, it means knowing how to target well, segmenting well, understanding the blocks. And it's not just talking about middle income as one thing.

所以薪資單是一種工具。我怎麼才能獲得公國，這才是真正的遊戲規則改變者，這將帶來利潤。這是透過擁有正確的供奉，這意味著很多事情。我們可以詳細說明這一點。但簡而言之，這意味著知道如何瞄準目標、細分市場、理解區塊。這不僅僅是談論中等收入一件事。

Middle income can be 6 to 8 different clusters. High income also has different clusters. Almost 30% of our high income is a credit borrower, and there's nothing wrong about that. It's a very profitable portfolio. I want to grow my high end, and there's a high-end investor, and there's the high end that doesn't touch the assets. They chose to use the credit card that we have with American Airlines and others.

中等收入可以有 6 到 8 個不同的集群。高收入也有不同的集群。我們的高收入人群中近 30% 是信用借款人，這並沒有什麼問題。這是一個非常有利可圖的投資組合。我想發展我的高端，有一個高端投資者，還有一個不觸及資產的高端。他們選擇使用我們在美國航空和其他航空公司擁有的信用卡。

So in low income, we have even more clusters. So the ability to segment and sub-targeting is very important. With sub-targeting, we will approach the person and not just the cluster. That is what I call hyper-personalization. A lot of people have been talking about that. But I would say that we are advancing a lot in redesigning our CRM model, in redesigning our systems, models and credit policies, we can detail that, if you want.

因此，在低收入地區，我們有更多的群聚。因此，細分和細分目標的能力非常重要。透過子目標定位，我們將接觸到個人，而不僅僅是群體。這就是我所說的超個性化。很多人都在談論這個問題。但我想說的是，我們在重新設計 CRM 模型、重新設計我們的系統、模型和信貸政策方面取得了很大進展，如果您願意，我們可以詳細說明。

So stability of sub-segmenting and personalization, so that we can understand which offering, at what time, through which channel I should offer to the client. And that's a game changer. The payroll is a big vehicle to give me access to millions of clients, whether if I do sub-segmentation well and hyper-personalization, if I can offer the client exactly what they need in the right context with the right language, with a multichannel conversation that is very precise with this client, that's how we can win this game.

因此細分和個人化的穩定性，使我們能夠了解我應該在什麼時間、透過哪個管道向客戶提供哪些產品。這將改變遊戲規則。薪資是一個重要的工具，可以讓我接觸到數以百萬計的客戶，無論我是否做得很好的細分和超個性化，是否我可以在正確的背景下，用正確的語言，通過多頻道為客戶提供他們真正需要的東西。

And that's why we are relaunching massive retail. And that's why we relaunched the high income in the past. So all of the pieces are connected. And this is the strategy I've been telling you and other analysts for quite a few years now. We are having those pieces to run in the right sequence, sometimes in parallel, all converging so that we can achieve principality. Having payroll is one of the big vehicles and not just the only one. I hope I have answered.

這就是我們重新啟動大規模零售的原因。這就是我們過去重新推出高收入的原因。所以所有的部分都是相連的。這就是我多年來一直告訴你們和其他分析師的策略。我們讓這些部分按正確的順序運行，有時是並行的，所有這些都匯聚在一起，以便我們能夠實現公國。薪資是重要工具之一，而不僅僅是唯一工具。我希望我已經回答了。

[Interpreted] Now Thiago Batista with UBS. Thiago?

[解讀] 現在蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔在瑞銀集團工作。蒂亞戈？

[Interpreted] I would like to focus on Select. It is impressive the growth you showed in that segment, 1.4 million clients. And Mario, you mentioned you aim to achieve 2 million clients. That will be a little above the market leader. This portfolio, as it should, accounts for almost 30% of loans and less than 5% of the active clients are Select. So it's an amazing performance.

[解讀]我想重點關注Select。您在該細分市場（140 萬客戶）中所表現出的成長令人印象深刻。 Mario，您提到您的目標是獲得 200 萬客戶。這將略高於市場領導者。該投資組合理所當然地占到了貸款的近 30%，而只有不到 5% 的活躍客戶是精選客戶。所以這是一場令人驚嘆的表演。

So my question is, first, what was the most relevant change you saw in this segment to explain this improvement? And the second point is the average ticket of this portfolio of this segment is about BRL 50,000 per client. Not all of them do enjoy that loan offering. But my point is, in what segment do you see the superior growth in Select? What product is leading to the strong portfolio growth?

所以我的問題是，首先，您在這一部分中看到的與解釋這項改進最相關的變化是什麼？第二點是該細分市場投資組合的平均票價約為每位客戶 50,000 雷亞爾。並非所有人都喜歡這種貸款服務。但我的觀點是，您認為 Select 的哪些細分市場出現了強勁成長？哪些產品帶來了產品組合的強勁成長？

[Interpreted] Excellent, Thiago. Thank you. Well, Select, just like I answered to Rosman. We have to be able to do segmentation and targeting. I think that the first big cluster of clients that we embraced in 2022, I spoke about this in Q3. We relaunched in August, September of '22, a little over 1.5 years ago. So we relaunched Select as a whole. At the time, we had 9 years of Select in Brazil. Last year, we celebrated 10 years.

[翻譯] 太棒了，蒂亞戈。謝謝。好吧，選擇，就像我對羅斯曼的回答一樣。我們必須能夠進行細分和定位。我認為我們在 2022 年迎來了第一批大客戶，我在第三季談到了這一點。我們於 22 年 8 月、9 月重新啟動，距今 1.5 年多一點。因此我們重新啟動了整個 Select。當時，我們在巴西進行了 9 年的 Select。去年，我們慶祝了10週年。

For the first time, we ran a campaign. It was not about the campaign alone, but in the campaign we democratized Select. So we're no longer accepting Select clients just by income or investments they have. We opened Select to whoever wanted to pay a monthly fee that we charge before they can get a fee exemption. And in that democratization, we opened the doors to Select for clients who wanted a super differentiated service.

我們第一次開展了一項活動。這不僅僅是關於競選活動，而是在競選活動中我們使選擇民主化。因此，我們不再僅根據收入或投資來接受精選客戶。我們向任何想要支付我們收取的月費的人開放選擇，然後他們才能獲得費用豁免。在這種民主化過程中，我們為想要超級差異化服務的客戶打開了選擇之門。

What is this? Again, this was the first segment where we started to offer multichannel in a very precise and comprehensive way. So here, we always have the stores, the Select stores individually or store in stores. And those are nice environments. They were very cool, but those spaces are a lot more integrated with a 24/7 personal service. A Select client, if they want to call -- some people still want to call. They are transferred directly to an agent, a human agent. Of course, we also have a chat with an impeccable chatbot, but the human agent is also there. So Select client can talk with the team, a multichannel with a human always available to them.

這是什麼？同樣，這是我們開始以非常精確和全面的方式提供多通路的第一個細分市場。所以在這裡，我們總是有商店，單獨的精選商店或商店中的商店。這些都是很好的環境。它們非常酷，但這些空間與 24/7 個人化服務更加融為一體。選擇客戶，如果他們想打電話的話——有些人仍然想打電話。它們被直接轉移給代理人，即人類代理人。當然，我們也與完美的聊天機器人聊天，但人工代理也在那裡。因此，精選客戶可以與團隊交談，這是一個多管道，有人隨時為他們服務。

And in addition, we bring an element which we definitely did not have, which is a financial advice to investor Select clients. So when we bring financial advisory over the more advanced investment portal, in 2021, beginning of 2022, we still lacked the digital experience for the investor client, but we are making a leap, in a matter of weeks, we'll launch what we call the investment portal, which will be a lot more advanced. So we bring a much more complete digital experience for investor clients.

此外，我們還帶來了一個我們絕對沒有的元素，即為投資者精選客戶提供的財務建議。因此，當我們在 2021 年、2022 年初透過更先進的投資入口網站提供財務諮詢時，我們仍然缺乏為投資者客戶提供的數位體驗，但我們正在實現飛躍，在幾週內，我們將推出我們的產品打電話給投資入口網站，會高級很多。因此，我們為投資者客戶帶來了更完整的數位體驗。

We offer them human AAA service. So we have the biggest capacity to cover in the market. And together for investor clients, we offer a multichannel, human service 24/7 with stores that are being well used. Several clients love to go to the stores. Many don't like to go to physical stores, but they are equally well served. So we have a differentiation there.

我們為他們提供人性化的AAA服務。因此，我們擁有最大的市場覆蓋能力。我們與投資者客戶一起提供多通路、全天候 (24/7) 的人性化服務，商店得到充分利用。有些顧客喜歡去商店。許多人不喜歡去實體店，但實體店的服務也一樣很好。所以我們在那裡有一個差異化。

We will also look at our clients in other segments. If we see that they are Select clients due to their history or because they were originally Van Gogh or could even be in our low income that we call special, we're bringing them to Select. So we are reanalyzing them. But this year, for the first time, we have a material organic growth of clients. So this number is growing because it has an important number of organic clients who decided to be Select because it came from payroll. And again, to Rosman's answer, we are working better with the payrolls.

我們也將關注其他領域的客戶。如果我們發現他們因為他們的歷史或因為他們最初是梵高或甚至可能屬於我們所謂的特殊低收入而成為精選客戶，我們會將他們帶到精選。所以我們正在重新分析它們。但今年，我們第一次實現了客戶的實質有機成長。所以這個數字正在成長，因為它有大量的自然客戶，他們決定被選擇，因為它來自薪資單。對於羅斯曼的回答，我們再次在薪資方面做得更好。

So we are inviting executives of companies to choose Santander as their principal bank. And in terms of product, there is no specific product. Of course, we are growing a lot in real estate loans and mortgage loans. We've had a relatively better performance than the market in mortgage loans. We grew a little, but we grew several banks had a retraction.

因此，我們邀請公司高層選擇桑坦德銀行作為他們的主要銀行。而在產品方面，也沒有具體的產品。當然，我們的房地產貸款和抵押貸款正在大量增長。我們在抵押貸款方面的表現比市場相對好一些。我們成長了一點，但我們成長了，幾家銀行都撤回了。

And in the first months of the year, we had a powerful real estate loan performance. We also have payroll loan, which is also valid for high income. We have several products in which we are differentiating. There is no silver bullet. There's never a silver bullet, but we are expecting this portfolio to continue to grow as a reflection of that.

今年頭幾個月，我們的房地產貸款表現強勁。我們還有薪資貸款，這也適用於高收入。我們有多種產品具有差異化優勢。沒有靈丹妙藥。從來沒有靈丹妙藥，但我們預計該投資組合將繼續成長，以反映這一點。

[Interpreted] Our next question is from Eduardo Nishio from Genial. I think we had a connection problem. So we will jump to Yuri Fernandes from JPMorgan. Yuri, good morning.

[解釋] 我們的下一個問題來自 Genial 的 Eduardo Nishio。我認為我們遇到了連接問題。我們將邀請摩根大通的尤里‧費爾南德斯 (Yuri Fernandes)。尤里，早安。

[Interpreted] Congrats -- congratulations, Mario and Gustavo. Mario Pierry already talked a little bit about the market. But I would like to discuss the client NII. We saw a very good performance in spreads. There were some reclassifications as you mentioned. So our history is not so long if we look before 2023. How can we then look at that line? My feeling is that, that margin would continue to improve. But how much further that margin could extend?

[解釋] 恭喜－恭喜馬裡奧和古斯塔沃。馬裡奧·皮耶里已經談過一些關於市場的事情了。但我想討論一下客戶端NII。我們看到點差表現非常好。正如你所提到的，有一些重新分類。所以如果我們看2023年之前，我們的歷史並沒有那麼長。我的感覺是，利潤率將繼續提高。但這差距還能擴大多少呢？

Should we go back to 2022? I know that the base is different, but product NII should be higher or maybe not, maybe closer to what we saw in early '23. Can you help me put some color to that? I think it has to do with many of the things that you talked about before like funding. I think this would help me get a better understanding about your spread improvement.

我們應該回到2022年嗎？我知道基礎不同，但產品 NII 應該更高，也可能不是，也許更接近我們在 23 年初看到的情況。你能幫我給它加上一些顏色嗎？我認為這與您之前談到的許多事情有關，例如資金。我認為這將幫助我更好地了解您的傳播改進。

[Interpreted] So I'll start, and then I'll hand it over to Gustavo. That's a very good question. And when we talk about reclassification, the first time I met with analysts, at least those in Brazil, they said, well, you have to look at the big picture. So we look at the first reclassification. These are correct reclassifications. We didn't do that to improve line X, Y or Z. I mean we just wanted to make the first move just to serve your demand when we expect to do another reclassification early next year. And whatever we can help you to think about the bank even before to help you conduct your analysis, we can really think about it.

[解釋] 那我就開始吧，然後我會把它交給古斯塔沃。這是一個非常好的問題。當我們談論重新分類時，我第一次會見分析師，至少是巴西的分析師，他們說，嗯，你必須著眼於大局。所以我們來看看第一個重新分類。這些是正確的重新分類。我們這樣做並不是為了改進 X、Y 或 Z 線。無論我們能在幫助您進行分析之前幫助您考慮銀行，我們都可以真正考慮它。

But to be more precise and to answer your question, in fact, our portfolio in '24 and from now on is quite different than the portfolio we had back in 2022. You mentioned '22. In '22, we still had a major carryover effect of the portfolio that we designed in the major growth cycle that ended in 2021. And so at the end of the year, we reviewed everything and the rest you already know.

但為了更準確地回答你的問題，事實上，我們在 24 年及以後的投資組合與我們在 2022 年的投資組合有很大不同。在 22 年，我們在 2021 年結束的主要成長週期中設計的投資組合仍然產生了重大結轉效應。

So we started the redesign of the portfolio, but we still have the effect of the carryover from previous years, prior to 2022. That's why our first line in the NII margin, you start seeing things resuming at the end of last year. And now we see that, that line is growing more significantly.

因此，我們開始重新設計投資組合，但我們仍然受到前幾年（2022 年之前）結轉的影響。現在我們看到，這條線成長得更顯著。

Okay. Funding net -- funding NII, that changes because of Selic. Selic is going down more gradually. So that line is diluted with time. We already know, as you are quite familiar with it, that we are working to compensate that funding with volume and the mix. I mean, liabilities mix having that load that remains in the account as we all have some instruments that allow us to improve margins. And obviously, we do not want just to use the floating money. We want to use all of our investment line and select. So we compensate with volume and mix.

好的。資金網－資助 NII，因 Selic 而改變。 Selic 正在逐漸下降。所以這條線隨著時間的推移而被稀釋。正如你們所熟悉的那樣，我們已經知道，我們正在努力透過數量和組合來補償這筆資金。我的意思是，負債組合的負擔仍保留在帳戶中，因為我們都有一些工具可以讓我們提高利潤率。顯然，我們不想僅僅使用浮動資金。我們想利用我們所有的投資線和選擇。所以我們用音量和混音來補償。

Therefore, we hope to have a positive effect, even though Selic is pushing that line downwards. We will start focusing even more in funding, and we will continue to focus on our expanded portfolio as well. And in fact, Yuri, we will look for the same kind of mix we are building now here. Therefore, I think you should have a similar average spread when compared to what we had in the past.

因此，我們希望能產生積極的影響，儘管 Selic 正在將該線向下推。我們將開始更加關注融資，我們也將繼續關注我們擴大的投資組合。事實上，尤里，我們將尋找我們現在在這裡建造的相同類型的組合。因此，我認為與我們過去相比，您應該有類似的平均價差。

I mean the lower income rating would be rating 5, 6 or 7 used to be more prevailing than it is today. Well, we don't have the same mix anymore. We don't want to have the same mix. We are working very little with 8 rating clients. Every bank has its own scale, but I think you have an idea of where we are cutting. We have to have a clean exposure with 9 and 10 and even collateralize with the consumer finance and payroll. So our average rating will go up a few points from 2021 to 2022.

我的意思是，較低的收入評級是 5、6 或 7 級，過去比現在更普遍。好吧，我們不再有相同的組合了。我們不想有相同的組合。我們與 8 位評級客戶的合作很少。每家銀行都有自己的規模，但我想你知道我們要削減哪些規模。我們必須對 9 和 10 進行乾淨的敞口，甚至用消費者金融和薪資進行抵押。因此，從 2021 年到 2022 年，我們的平均評級將會上升幾個百分點。

Therefore, in the first line, we couldn't expect the first line of gross spreads, but the [ALL] net spread should improve with time. And this is what we are showing. This doesn't necessarily happen in the first quarter because first you build up your portfolio, you are building up the portfolio. We are doing less agreements. We are looking for better results and maybe in due time, we won't be able to recover everything and Gustavo mentioned that. So not everything will happen in the first quarter, but that first line of credit cost that will be gradually and increasingly healthier.

因此，在第一行中，我們無法預期第一行的總利差，但 [ALL] 淨利差應該會隨著時間的推移而改善。這就是我們所展示的。這不一定會發生在第一季度，因為首先你建立了你的投資組合，你正在建立投資組合。我們正在做更少的協議。我們正在尋找更好的結果，也許在適當的時候，我們將無法恢復一切，古斯塔沃提到了這一點。因此，並不是所有事情都會在第一季發生，但第一筆信貸成本將逐漸變得越來越健康。

And also considering the fact that our legacy portfolio will continue to flow, this will improve our overall scenario. Therefore, we are positive in terms of how the slide is behaving throughout the year. We can compensate volume and price. On the asset side, we continue to grow with the same kind of mix of products and the same customer portfolio that we've had so far. It is precisely it.

而且考慮到我們的遺留投資組合將繼續流動，這將改善我們的整體情況。因此，我們對全年的下滑表現持樂觀態度。我們可以補償數量和價格。在資產方面，我們繼續以迄今為止相同的產品組合和相同的客戶組合實現成長。正是它。

Well, you cannot compare the previous portfolio with the current portfolio. With the current portfolio, we continue posting the same ratings, the same product composition per customer cluster with the same profile per micro portfolio, I would call it. We are making strides with some kind of collateral. We had more volume with CP3 and therefore, we changed the entire composition of our portfolio. We know that CDI is coming down. We do a recomposition with the liability. But what we are seeking to do or to see is that the net spread could be higher, and this is pretty much the dynamics that we anticipate going forward.

嗯，你不能將以前的投資組合與目前的投資組合進行比較。在目前的產品組合中，我們繼續發布相同的評級，每個客戶群的相同產品組成以及每個微投資組合的相同配置文件，我稱之為。我們正在透過某種抵押品取得進展。我們的 CP3 交易量更大，因此我們改變了整個投資組合的組成。我們知道 CDI 正在下降。我們對責任進行重組。但我們尋求做或看到的是淨利差可能會更高，這幾乎是我們預期的未來動態。

[Interpreted] Well, now we have Eduardo Nishio from Genial.

[解譯] 好的，現在我們有來自 Genial 的 Eduardo Nishio。

[Interpreted] Congrats on your results. I would just like to revisit the retail segment and in your mass retail strategy. Congratulations for the launches. Well, retail has changed significantly in this cycle. And you came -- we came up with a new strategy, a redesign strategy. I would like you to elaborate a bit more on the type of profitability that you anticipate. What happened during the cycle and whether you could also tell you -- tell us more about this new cycle, whether it's an open sea or low income?

[解讀]恭喜你取得好成績。我想重新檢視零售部門和你們的大眾零售策略。祝賀發射。嗯，零售業在這個週期中發生了巨大的變化。你來了——我們提出了一個新的策略，一個重新設計的策略。我希望您詳細說明您預期的盈利類型。在這個週期中發生了什麼，您是否也可以告訴我們更多有關這個新周期的信息，無論是公海還是低收入週期？

[Interpreted] Thank you, Eduardo. Well, that's a good opportunity for us to talk more about mass retail. So -- but I'll try to be brief. The key topic here -- topics, I would say, here. Well, we recognize that clients evolved. Their demand change, the type of relationship they want to have with the bank changed, the type of principality they are willing to give us. People sometimes, on average, have about 4 to 5 accounts or 4 to 5 credit cards. So the way the client defines principality is something that changed over the years. Therefore, the capacity of every year, digital bank -- I mean, we are all digital today.

[翻譯]謝謝你，愛德華多。嗯，這是我們更多地談論大眾零售的好機會。所以——但我會盡量簡短。這裡的關鍵主題——我想說的主題，就在這裡。嗯，我們認識到客戶正在不斷發展。他們的需求發生了變化，他們希望與銀行建立的關係類型發生了變化，他們願意給予我們的主權類型也發生了變化。有時，人們平均擁有大約 4 到 5 個帳戶或 4 到 5 張信用卡。因此，客戶定義公國的方式多年來發生了變化。因此，每年數位銀行的容量——我的意思是，今天我們都是數位化的。

The fact that banks are struggling to get principality on the part of clients is something that changed. And this is very clear, we recognize that and so does the market. We also recognize that the way that we and the entire market approach loans to that mass audience had to evolve between 2021 and '22. We granted credit probably more than clients were capable of absorbing and all the banks probably do the same, which means that we tested the hard way and we learned the hard way. We learned the elasticity of that low-income bracket.

銀行正在努力爭取客戶的主導權這一事實已經改變了。這是非常明確的，我們認識到這一點，市場也認識到這一點。我們也意識到，我們和整個市場向廣大受眾提供貸款的方式必須在 2021 年至 22 年間發生變化。我們發放的信貸可能超過客戶所能吸收的額度，所有銀行也可能這樣做，這意味著我們經歷了艱難的考驗，也經歷了艱難的教訓。我們了解了低收入階層的彈性。

So the lessons learned is that now we have a much better idea of the elasticity of the income capacity of this audience, which is much lower. Elasticity is much lower. We have a better understanding of the size of the pocket or how big is the wallet of this low income and how big is the exposure we can have, and what kind of exposure it pays off to have with these clients, whether I have transactionality or not with this client, because even if you ran small credit, they may use my loan to pay off loans from other banks.

所以學到的教訓是，現在我們對這個受眾的收入能力的彈性有了更好的了解，這個彈性要低得多。彈性要低得多。我們更了解了這種低收入的錢包有多大，或者錢包有多大，我們可以擁有多大的風險敞口，以及與這些客戶擁有什麼樣的風險敞口，無論我是否具有交易性或不是這個客戶，因為即使你經營小額信貸，他們也可能用我的貸款來償還其他銀行的貸款。

And so the bottom line is that our maturity level is much better now because we have a better understanding of the contacts and the low elasticity coming from the low income. And we understand the need for that client to be on board and choosing us as their main bank. Because with that, we can have -- we stand a better chance in terms of how to use the limited income to pay for the loans and services, et cetera.

因此，最重要的是，我們現在的成熟度要高得多，因為我們對低收入帶來的連結和低彈性有了更好的了解。我們了解該客戶需要加入並選擇我們作為他們的主要銀行。因為有了這個，我們就可以在如何使用有限的收入來支付貸款和服務等方面有更好的機會。

I think that this is well acknowledged by the entire market. So I'm not saying anything new. But how do we approach that differently? Well, we start with a very, very simple offer, much simpler than what we had in the past. It's very free. It's a free offer. So it's free without the different stars after the free word. So all the historical offerings from incumbent banks and digital banks, they were quite provocative. They always came with a conditional offering, but we have an account and a credit card that is free for life. It is indeed.

我想這是整個市場都認可的。所以我並不是說任何新的東西。但我們要如何以不同的方式處理這個問題呢？好吧，我們從一個非常非常簡單的報價開始，比我們過去的報價簡單得多。這是非常自由的。這是免費優惠。所以它是免費的，沒有免費字後面不同的星星。因此，現有銀行和數位銀行的所有歷史產品都非常具有挑釁性。他們總是附帶條件的產品，但我們有一個終身免費的帳戶和信用卡。真的是。

How can we monetize on top of that? Well, not only this is a free for line offering, but you have unlimited withdrawals. I mean, this audience uses cash. They will still use cash for quite some time. So unlimited cash withdrawal is a good proposition, and we also give the possibility of interest free for 10 days. If we use your (inaudible), we will give you 10 days of free interest rates. So therefore, through these 2 elements, we will bring a very simple experience with a human conversational aspect, which is quite important.

除此之外我們如何獲利？好吧，這不僅是免費的線路產品，而且您還可以無限提款。我的意思是，這些觀眾使用現金。他們在相當長的時間內仍會使用現金。所以無限提現是一個很好的建議，我們也提供10天免息的可能性。如果我們使用您的（聽不清楚），我們將為您提供 10 天的免費利率。因此，透過這兩個元素，我們將帶來一種非常簡單的、具有人類對話方面的體驗，這是非常重要的。

Therefore, we believe that this new offering of Comeca Agora. Comeca Agora is the name of this entire positioning. It's free positioning. So we are catching up in terms of what we didn't have before. It's a positive differential as well based on what we already have. And this is a very simple formula to dialogue with our client. We want to reactivate clients that were with us. We have about 30 million inactive clients if we consider our total base of 60 million clients. So half of those clients are inactive. What we want now is to activate those inactive clients.

因此，我們相信 Comeca Agora 的這一新產品。 Comeca Agora 是整個定位的名稱。是自由定位。因此，我們正在迎頭趕上以前沒有做到的事情。根據我們已有的情況，這也是一個正面的差異。這是與客戶對話的一個非常簡單的公式。我們希望重新激活與我們在一起的客戶。如果我們考慮到 6,000 萬客戶總數，我們大約有 3,000 萬不活躍客戶。所以這些客戶有一半是不活躍的。我們現在想要的是啟動那些不活躍的客戶端。

And of course, there is also the element of capturing in the open sea, but it's not anything near to what we did back in 2021. It's a smaller open sea with more information, more intelligence. We are using data, trying to understand what this client is all about. So we are looking at open sea clients, even though we are not looking at a huge open sea, but we will look at the clients that are already in our customer base, but they were not active. And maybe the principality was going elsewhere. We want to acquire new clients, but we want to make a distinction between those that we want and those that we do not want.

當然，還有在公海捕獲的元素，但這與我們在 2021 年所做的相比相差甚遠。我們正在使用數據，試圖了解這個客戶的全部內容。因此，我們正在尋找公海客戶，儘管我們不是在尋找巨大的公海客戶，但我們會關注已經在我們的客戶群中的客戶，但他們並不活躍。也許公國要去其他地方了。我們希望獲得新客戶，但我們希望區分我們想要的客戶和我們不想要的客戶。

[Interpreted] Next question by Brian Flores with Citibank.

[解釋]下一個問題是花旗銀行的布萊恩·弗洛雷斯 (Brian Flores) 提出的。

[Interpreted] Well, building on Yuri and Mario's question about cost of credit. How should we think about this as a percentage of the portfolio? And how does this connect with a strategy to renegotiate the written-off loans that are running at much lower levels now?

[解釋] 嗯，以尤里和馬裡奧關於信貸成本的問題為基礎。我們該如何看待它佔投資組合的百分比？這與重新協商目前水準低得多的核銷貸款的策略有何關聯？

[Interpreted] Gustavo?

[解讀]古斯塔沃？

[Interpreted] Well, let me start with the second half, what we mentioned that we changed the renegotiation strategy. We're being a lot more assertive in renegotiating those written-off loans asking for formats with more payments. So this changes the way in which we renegotiate. And this, as I mentioned, means a smaller renegotiated portfolio. And we see perhaps some volatility in some portfolios, which I mentioned in the prior quarter. So the renegotiation dynamic continues being a lot more selective and the renegotiated portfolio will be reducing over time given the fact that we'll have the legacy portfolios being digested or purged as Mario mentioned. So that's the first part.

[解讀]嗯，讓我從下半場開始，我們提到我們改變了重新談判策略。我們在重新協商那些註銷貸款時更加自信，要求採用更多付款方式。所以這改變了我們重新談判的方式。正如我所提到的，這意味著重新談判的投資組合會更小。我們在某些​​投資組合中可能會看到一些波動，我在上一季提到。因此，重新談判的動態繼續更具選擇性，考慮到正如馬裡奧所提到的那樣，我們將消化或清除遺留投資組合，因此重新談判的投資組合將隨著時間的推移而減少。這是第一部分。

Cost of credit at the pace we are growing and with the credit discipline and the change in the risk profile, the trend is positive, then we will reduce the cost of credit. It will depend on where we grow and how we grow, but we've seen already a very good improvement in the last 12 months. This can improve even further in the future, but it really depends on how much we will advance in the portfolios given that we have a lot of trust in the credit performance. Because all of the new vintages we are producing are performing exactly as expected, no surprises in the new vintages. Also, given the fact that we haven't been changing the credit profile over the last few quarters.

信貸成本按照我們的成長速度，隨著信貸紀律和風險狀況的變化，趨勢是正面的，那麼我們將降低信貸成本。這將取決於我們的成長地點和成長方式，但我們在過去 12 個月中已經看到了非常好的進步。這在未來可能會進一步改善，但這實際上取決於我們對投資組合的推進程度，因為我們對信貸表現有著極大的信任。因為我們生產的所有新年份酒的表現都完全符合預期，所以新年份酒不會有任何意外。此外，考慮到我們在過去幾季沒有改變信用狀況。

We will now switch to English with Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs. Good morning, Tito.

我們現在將由高盛的蒂托·拉巴塔（Tito Labarta）轉用英語。早安，蒂托。

Actually, a bit of a follow-up to Brian's question on the cost of risk, but more on the asset quality side. We saw the NPLs were still sort of flattish in the quarter. I know there may be some seasonality in 1Q, but the SME NPLs did go up a little bit. Just how are you thinking about asset quality from here? I mean, it seems that we're past the worst of it, particularly if your provisioning levels are coming down. But any risk to that? How do you think asset quality can evolve from here?

實際上，這是布萊恩關於風險成本問題的後續問題，但更多的是資產品質的問題。我們看到本季不良貸款仍然持平。我知道第一季可能有一些季節性，但中小企業不良貸款確實有所上升。您是如何看待這裡的資產品質的？我的意思是，我們似乎已經度過了最糟糕的時期，特別是如果您的配置水平正在下降。但這有風險嗎？您認為資產品質將如何發展？

Let me just -- Tito, thank you for participating. So just kicking off, and I'll hand it over to Gustavo. So the broad message, [taking] the opportunity for question is we are very comfortable with the portfolio we are building. The portfolio we're building for the last 2 years, I'd say, and obviously, with the benefit of having now 2-year-old vintages, 1-year-old vintages, 6 months old vintages. With all that, we can back test, and we are continuously doing that, and we're doing that every time more and more precisely and taking the small adjustment decisions much faster than we did before.

讓我說—蒂托，感謝您的參與。那就開始吧，我會把它交給古斯塔沃。因此，[抓住]提問機會的廣泛訊息是，我們對我們正在建立的投資組合非常滿意。我想說的是，我們在過去兩年建立的投資組合，顯然，其好處是擁有 2 年陳釀、1 年陳釀、6 個月陳釀。有了這些，我們就可以進行回測，我們正在不斷地這樣做，而且我們每次都做得越來越精確，並且比以前更快地做出小的調整決定。

So all that points to the direction that we are managing with better tools, with much more modern policies and models, and the vintages are behaving well on average. So yes, there's seasonality. There's -- the elements that you see in the presentation, they relate much more to the digestion of the older vintages, which we are embracing differently for a year already in terms of the (foreign language) the renegotiations than we did before.

因此，所有這些都表明我們正在使用更好的工具、更現代的政策和模型進行管理，而且年份的平均表現良好。所以是的，有季節性。你在演示中看到的元素，它們更多地與舊年份的消化有關，一年來我們在（外語）重新談判方面與以前相比，已經以不同的方式接受了這些內容。

So Gustavo can comment better. But the direction I wanted to share with you is that, yes, we're very comfortable with the way the portfolio is behaving, the direction we're taking and how the new vintages since 2022, by the way, they are behaving. So with that, Gustavo, please?

所以古斯塔沃可以更好地發表評論。但我想與大家分享的方向是，是的，我們對投資組合的表現方式、我們正在採取的方向以及自 2022 年以來的新年份的表現感到非常滿意。那麼，古斯塔沃，好嗎？

Yes, it's exactly that, Tito. There is no changes. I've mentioned last quarter that potentially we will see some volatility in the overs, but it's totally related to the old vintages and the old portfolio. So it's everything under control. So in terms of future and credit quality is everything really under control.

是的，正是如此，蒂托。沒有任何變化。我上個季度提到過，我們可能會看到一些波動，但這完全與舊年份和舊投資組合有關。所以一切都在掌控之中。因此，就未來和信用品質而言，一切都在掌控之中。

[Interpreted] We're back to Portuguese with Gustavo Schroden from Bradesco BBI.

[解說] 我們又回到了來自布拉德斯科 BBI 的古斯塔沃·施羅登 (Gustavo Schroden) 的葡萄牙語。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the strong results. I think that there is one part of the equation missing. You discussed NII, you talked about segmentation, product mix, but I'd like to speak about portfolio growth because it is an important component for NII growth that grew 5% year-over-year.

【解讀】恭喜取得優異成績。我認為方程式缺少一部分。您討論了 NII，您談到了細分、產品組合，但我想談談投資組合成長，因為它是 NII 成長的重要組成部分，年成長 5%。

I'd like to understand, is there room for acceleration? Should we expect the portfolio accelerating in the next quarters? Can we get between 8% and 10%? Do you think that this is a fair number in terms of portfolio growth? And I'd like you to speak a little about the mix, not in terms of segmentation, but we saw strong growth concentrated on payroll loans, auto loans. Is this the real trend?

我想了解一下，還有加速的空間嗎？我們是否應該預期投資組合在接下來的幾季會加速成長？我們能得到 8% 到 10% 之間嗎？您認為就投資組合成長而言，這是一個合理的數字嗎？我希望您能談談這種組合，而不是細分方面，但我們看到強勁的成長集中在薪資貸款和汽車貸款上。這是真正的趨勢嗎？

And if I may, I think that portfolio growth can take us to another point, which is profitability. There was a good improvement in ROE 10%, 11% to 14%. Do you think that by year-end, we could get to an ROE close to a more recent past before the whole deterioration that we saw in the system in asset quality that made everyone grow or hold back on portfolio growth? So can we go back to dreaming with an ROE closer to 18%, 20%? Of course, I do understand the limitations. I don't expect the guidance, but I just want to know if this is the path in the future.

如果可以的話，我認為投資組合成長可以將我們帶到另一個點，那就是獲利能力。 ROE有10%、11%至14%的良好改善。您認為到年底，我們是否可以達到接近最近的淨資產收益率，然後再看到系統中資產品質的整體惡化，導致每個人都成長或抑制投資組合成長？那我們能否回到ROE接近18%、20%的夢想呢？當然，我確實理解這些限制。我不期待指導，但我只是想知道這是否是未來的道路。

[Interpreted] Thank you, Gustavo. It's great to have you here in the call. Let me start talking about the portfolio, and then we'll speak about profitability. Like I said, and Gustavo also underscored, we are growing exactly in the portfolios we meant to grow. Our goal is not to grow equally 10%, 8% or 12% for all portfolios. That would not be a smart way of managing the bank, and it's not what you expect from us. So we choose the businesses where we want to consolidate our leading position or gain share, but with quality.

[翻譯]謝謝你，古斯塔沃。很高興您能參加電話會議。讓我開始談論投資組合，然後我們將談論盈利能力。正如我所說，古斯塔沃也強調，我們正在按照我們想要成長的投資組合進行成長。我們的目標不是所有投資組合均等成長 10%、8% 或 12%。這不是管理銀行的明智方式，也不是您對我們的期望。因此，我們選擇那些想要鞏固我們的領先地位或獲得份額的業務，但要注重品質。

We don't want to gain market share with no profitability. And you're not seeing us grow in that way indiscriminately. So we cherry pick some businesses. So we say in the call, we decided to grow in this area or that area. For 1.5 years, we spoke about cards because this was decelerating. And since Q3, we've been talking more about it, and now we'll continue to speak more about cards because that's when we start consolidating our strategy to go back to growing cards.

我們不想在沒有獲利的情況下獲得市場份額。你不會看到我們不加區別地以這種方式成長。所以我們精心挑選了一些企業。所以我們在電話中說，我們決定在這個領域或那個領域發展。 1.5 年來，我們一直在談論卡片，因為它的發展速度正在放緩。自第三季以來，我們一直在更多地談論它，現在我們將繼續更多地談論卡牌，因為那時我們開始鞏固我們的策略，以回歸種植卡牌。

When we think about the size of growth, we are not going to give you a guidance, Gustavo, as you know, but we expect to grow as much as the average market expected by Febraban. And given that in some businesses, we know that we'll be able to grow more, and we'll probably deliver more growth to the market. So we would love to grow as much as the market or above.

當我們考慮成長規模時，古斯塔沃，如您所知，我們不會為您提供指導，但我們預計成長速度將達到 Febraban 預期的平均市場水平。鑑於在某些業務中，我們知道我們將能夠實現更多成長，並且我們可能會為市場帶來更多成長。因此，我們希望能夠實現與市場相同或更高的成長。

But again, that's not going to be linear. It's not going to be in all businesses and all segments. But we have several segments, particularly in retail, individuals, companies and consumer finance. And those we have reasonable safety that those are the businesses with the highest profitability. If we do a good job, and I believe we are doing a good job, and we have everything to grow as much as or more than the market.

但同樣，這不會是線性的。它不會出現在所有企業和所有領域。但我們有幾個細分市場，特別是零售、個人、公司和消費金融領域。我們有合理的安全性，認為這些企業是獲利能力最高的企業。如果我們做得很好，而且我相信我們做得很好，那麼我們就擁有與市場一樣或超過市場的一切成長空間。

In Large Corps, I'm not going to say the same thing because like I said before, and Gustavo reinforced, as in everything else, we want to be disciplined about profitability. So where I can have marginal ROEs in that operation, which are positive with economic property above our cost of equity. On average, if the cost of risk is good, we'll look at the operation, the possibility of cross-selling. In wholesale, there's a lot of cross-selling in services and so on and so forth. So we'll always have a customer focus. But sometimes, even with the customer focus, it won't make sense and we'll be a distributor and will not be carrying the loans.

在大型軍團中，我不會說同樣的話，因為就像我之前說過的那樣，古斯塔沃強調，就像在其他事情上一樣，我們希望在盈利能力方面受到約束。因此，我可以在該業務中獲得邊際股本回報率，當經濟財產高於我們的股本成本時，邊際股本回報率是正值。平均而言，如果風險成本良好，我們會專注於操作、交叉銷售的可能性。在批發領域，服務等方面有許多交叉銷售。因此，我們將始終以客戶為中心。但有時，即使以客戶為中心，這也是沒有意義的，我們將成為經銷商，不會承擔貸款。

So here, we're not in a sprint race of growing 8%, 10% or 5%. We even posted a slight decrease, but it's not a concern to us because the business is making a lot more money now than it was making money in the past quarter. So we have a good profitability in our wholesale operation of large corps. We might grow a little less of the market, but [ex anti], I'm not saying it's going to happen, but if it does happen, it will be with super fine capital discipline and will offset with growth and capital discipline in other operations as we showed in Q1.

因此，我們並不是進行 8%、10% 或 5% 成長的衝刺賽。我們甚至公佈了略有下降，但這不是我們擔心的，因為該業務現在賺的錢比上個季度賺的錢多得多。所以我們大集團的批發經營有很好的獲利能力。我們可能會減少市場的成長，但是[反]，我並不是說這會發生，但如果它確實發生，它將伴隨著超精細的資本紀律，並將抵消其他領域的成長和資本紀律。在第一季所示的營運情況。

In a nutshell, in terms of profitability, if I'm disciplined in wholesale, if I'm only going to go to ROE accretive operations and in my retail operations, individuals, companies and consumer finance have a lot of profitability. As long as we know how to select the right clients and the right product, we'll expect the ROE recovery, which was good, will continue over time.

簡而言之，就獲利能力而言，如果我在批發方面遵守紀律，如果我只進行淨資產收益率增值業務，而在我的零售業務中，個人、公司和消費金融都有很多盈利能力。只要我們知道如何選擇正確的客戶和正確的產品，我們就預期淨資產收益率的恢復（良好的情況）將隨著時間的推移而持續。

This is not a guidance, but we are seeking to consolidate low-teens and middle-teens, high-teens. And eventually, we'll get to high-teens or 20s. We are not expecting that in the short term, but we are redesigning the operation, executing a well-disciplined strategy to dream with that.

這不是指導，但我們正在尋求鞏固低青少年、中青少年、高青少年。最終，我們將達到十幾歲或二十幾歲。我們預計短期內不會出現這種情況，但我們正在重新設計運營，執行嚴格的策略來實現這一夢想。

In a nutshell, the quality of the portfolio, which is delivering the ROE -- that will deliver ROE in Q2, Q3 is totally different. It's a lot more diversified and, therefore, more sustainable. We are less focused on the speed in which I will grow the ROE. But the solidity with which I deliver ROE so that we can always pursue different leaps.

簡而言之，提供股本回報率的投資組合的品質將在第二季和第三季提供股本回報率，這是完全不同的。它更加多樣化，因此也更加永續。我們不太關注 ROE 成長的速度。但我提供 ROE 的穩定性使我們始終能夠追求不同的飛躍。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the results.

[解讀]恭喜結果。

[Interpreted] I would like to thank you all very much for joining us this morning. And after this video conference, myself and the entire IR team of Santander will be available to clarify any further questions. Thank you very much. Have a very good day, and see you soon.

[翻譯]非常感謝大家今天早上加入我們。在這次視訊會議之後，我本人和桑坦德銀行的整個 IR 團隊將可以澄清任何進一步的問題。非常感謝。祝你有美好的一天，很快再見。

[Portions of this transcript that are marked Interpreted were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]

[本文字記錄中標示為「已翻譯」的部分是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。