Ballard Power Systems Inc (BLDP) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Ballard Power Systems third-quarter 2024 results conference call. As a reminder, all participants are in a listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

您好，歡迎參加巴拉德動力系統 2024 年第三季業績電話會議。提醒一下，所有與會者都處於只聽模式，並且正在錄製會議。（操作員說明）

I would now like to turn the conference over to Sumit Kundu, Manager and Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議交給經理兼投資者關係部的 Sumit Kundu。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good morning. Welcome to Ballard's third-quarter financial and operating results conference call. With us on today's call are Randy MacEwen, Ballard's CEO; and Kate Igbalode, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝您，接線員，早安。歡迎參加巴拉德第三季財務與營運業績電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有巴拉德執行長蘭迪‧麥克尤恩 (Randy MacEwen)；凱特‧伊格巴洛德 (Kate Igbalode)，財務長。

We will be making forward-looking statements that are based on management's current expectations, beliefs, and assumptions concerning future events. Actual results could be materially different. Please refer to our most recent annual information form and other public filings for our complete disclaimer and related information.

我們將根據管理層目前對未來事件的預期、信念和假設做出前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能會大不相同。請參閱我們最新的年度資訊表和其他公開文件，以了解我們完整的免責聲明和相關資訊。

I'll now turn the call over to Randy.

我現在將把電話轉給蘭迪。

Thank you, Sumit, and welcome, everyone, to today's conference call. We'll keep our prepared comments today relatively brief to allow sufficient time for Q&A. And I think there can be no question that this is a difficult moment in the hydrogen and fuel cell industry.

謝謝蘇米特，歡迎大家參加今天的電話會議。我們今天準備的評論將保持相對簡短，以便有足夠的時間進行問答。我認為毫無疑問，這是氫能和燃料電池產業的困難時刻。

In the context of an uncertain macroeconomic and geopolitical outlook, and amid protracted policy uncertainty, we observed a multiyear pushout of hydrogen project development and the availability of low-cost, low-carbon hydrogen and hydrogen refueling infrastructure. We also observed a continued deterioration in the financing environment for companies in the hydrogen fuel cell industry complex, including reduced access to capital and continued compression in industry valuations.

在宏觀經濟和地緣政治前景不確定以及長期政策不確定性的背景下，我們觀察到氫項目開發以及低成本、低碳氫化合物和加氫基礎設施的可用性已持續多年。我們也觀察到氫燃料電池產業企業的融資環境持續惡化，包括融資管道減少和產業估值持續壓縮。

Taken together, the pushout in market adoption and the challenging capital markets environment is putting pressure on the financial position of many industry players across the value chain. Many participants are taking restructuring actions to reduce their cash burn, improve their liquidity, and extend their cash runway. This industry context presents a significant headwind to our corporate growth plan.

總而言之，市場採用的推進和充滿挑戰的資本市場環境給整個價值鏈上許多行業參與者的財務狀況帶來了壓力。許多參與者正在採取重組行動，以減少現金消耗、提高流動性並擴大現金跑道。這種行業背景為我們的企業成長計畫帶來了重大阻力。

Accordingly, in Q3, we made the difficult decision to initiate a global corporate restructuring to moderate our investment intensity and pacing to better align with delayed market adoption. Our restructuring includes a sizable workforce reduction, rationalization of product development programs, consolidation of global operations and facilities, and a reduction in planned capital expenditures.

因此，在第三季度，我們做出了艱難的決定，啟動全球企業重組，以調整我們的投資強度和節奏，以更好地適應延遲的市場採用。我們的重組包括大幅裁員、產品開發計畫合理化、全球營運和設施整合以及計畫資本支出減少。

In addition, given continued policy and other challenges in the China fuel cell market and the underperformance of the Weichai-Ballard joint venture, we reduced our corporate cost structure in China and initiated a strategic review of our China strategy with consideration of all options, including related to the Weichai-Ballard JV.

此外，鑑於中國燃料電池市場持續的政策和其他挑戰以及濰柴巴拉德合資企業的表現不佳，我們降低了在中國的企業成本結構，並啟動了對中國戰略的戰略審查，考慮了所有選項，包括與濰柴巴拉德合資企業有關。

Given this industry context, we do not see a business case for production capacity expansion investments in the foreseeable future. Accordingly, we have also repositioned our previously planned Texas gigafactory expansion program to an optionality plan, where we will defer our final investment decision to 2026 pending clear market adoption and demand indicators while still preserving our over $94 million of awarded government funding. With no material capital investments made during this optionality period, we'll reassess the underlying business case in 2026.

鑑於這種產業背景，我們在可預見的未來看不到產能擴張投資的商業案例。因此，我們也將先前計劃的德州超級工廠擴建計劃重新定位為可選計劃，我們將把最終投資決定推遲到2026 年，等待明確的市場採用和需求指標，同時仍保留超過9,400 萬美元的政府資助。由於在此選用期間內沒有進行任何實質資本投資，我們將在 2026 年重新評估基本業務案例。

We expect our global restructuring to reduce total annualized operating costs by more than 30%, with a substantial part of the annual cost savings to be realized in 2025. These actions will meaningfully extend our cash runway. Importantly, and a differentiator for Ballard, we entered the quarter with a strong cash position. Our Q3 results are reflective of this challenging industry context in near-term outlook with weak revenue, soft new order intake, adverse order book adjustments, a restructuring charge of $16.1 million, a noncash goodwill and PP impairments totaling approximately $147 million.

我們預計，我們的全球重組將使年度總營運成本降低 30% 以上，其中大部分年度成本節約將在 2025 年實現。這些行動將有意義地擴展我們的現金跑道。重要的是，我們在進入本季度時擁有強勁的現金狀況，這也是巴拉德的與眾不同之處。我們第三季的業績反映了近期前景充滿挑戰的行業環境，收入疲軟、新訂單接收疲軟、訂單簿調整不利、重組費用為 1,610 萬美元、非現金商譽和 PP 減值總計約 1.47 億美元。

I want to comment on the order backlog. We removed certain previously booked orders from our order backlog and 12-month order book. While these orders have not been canceled by our customers, we believe these removals are prudent given heightened concerns on the relevant market adoption risks and customer risks. While we had disappointing new order intake of only $7.1 million during Q3, we see a pickup in new order intake in Q4, including secured orders from two customers over the past few days that I want to highlight.

我想對訂單積壓發表評論。我們從積壓訂單和 12 個月訂單簿中刪除了某些先前預訂的訂單。雖然我們的客戶尚未取消這些訂單，但鑑於對相關市場採用風險和客戶風險的高度擔憂，我們認為這些訂單的刪除是謹慎的。雖然我們在第三季的新訂單量僅為710 萬美元，令人失望，但我們看到第四季度的新訂單量有所回升，其中包括我想強調的過去幾天來自兩位客戶的安全訂單。

First, we received a new order from New Flyer for the supply of 200 fuel cell engines representing 20 megawatts, with delivery planned for 2025. This represents the second order under our previously announced long-term supply agreement with a doubling from the New Flyer order of 100 fuel cell engines for 2024 delivery. We believe this new order for 200 engines is the largest order in the history of the industry for fuel cell engines in the North American bus market.

首先，我們收到了 New Flyer 的新訂單，供應 200 台燃料電池發動機，功率 20 兆瓦，計劃於 2025 年交付。這是我們先前宣布的長期供應協議下的第二份訂單，是 2024 年交付的 New Flyer 100 台燃料電池引擎訂單的兩倍。我們相信這份200台引擎的新訂單是北美客車市場燃料電池引擎產業史上最大的訂單。

Second, we also received a repeat order from an undisclosed European bus OEM customer, where we previously signed a long-term framework supply agreement. This order is for the supply of 80 fuel cell engines planned for delivery in 2025 and 2026.

其次，我們也收到了來自未公開的歐洲客車 OEM 客戶的重複訂單，我們先前與該客戶簽署了長期框架供應協議。該訂單用於供應 80 台燃料電池發動機，計劃於 2025 年和 2026 年交付。

As we look to our long-term strategic plan, in our retuned capital allocation, we continue to have high conviction on hydrogen and PEM fuel cells playing an important role in decarbonizing select heavy mobility and stationary power applications. We see compelling use cases where customers are attracted to the differentiated PEM fuel cell value proposition of long-range, fast-refueling, heavy-payload, operation in all-weather climates, and zero tailpipe emissions.

當我們著眼於我們的長期策略計畫時，在重新調整的資本配置中，我們仍然堅信氫和 PEM 燃料電池在特定重型移動和固定電力應用脫碳方面發揮著重要作用。我們看到了一些令人信服的用例，其中客戶被差異化的 PEM 燃料電池價值主張所吸引，這些價值主張包括長距離、快速加油、重負載、全天候氣候條件下運行以及零廢氣排放。

We remain focused on our customers and our controllables, including the development of next-generation low-cost fuel cell products while maintaining disciplined spending and balance sheet strength for long-term competitiveness and sustainability. With that, I'll now pass the call over to Kate.

我們仍然專注於我們的客戶和我們的可控因素，包括開發下一代低成本燃料電池產品，同時保持嚴格的支出和資產負債表實力，以實現長期競爭力和永續性。這樣，我現在將把電話轉給凱特。

Thank you, Randy. In Q3, Ballard delivered orders totaling $14.8 million, a decrease of 45% year over year due to slowing customer demand, reflective of a pushout in the adoption curve for hydrogen and PEM fuel cells. Decreases were recorded in most verticals with the exception of bus revenue, which increased 33%, totaling $11.2 million in the quarter.

謝謝你，蘭迪。第三季度，巴拉德交付的訂單總額為 1,480 萬美元，由於客戶需求放緩，年減 45%，反映出氫和 PEM 燃料電池採用曲線的推出。大多數垂直行業都出現了下降，但巴士收入除外，本季該收入增長了 33%，總計 1,120 萬美元。

Product sales accounted for approximately 93% of total revenue, continuing an increasing trend as we transitioned to a commercial products company. We expect 2024 revenue to be heavily indexed to Q4. Lower revenue, changes in our revenue mix, and onerous contracts and inventory provisions resulted in a gross margin of negative 56%, 45 points lower compared to the same period last year.

產品銷售約佔總營收的93%，隨著我們向商業產品公司轉型，這一比例持續上升。我們預計 2024 年的營收將與第四季密切相關。收入下降、收入結構變化以及繁重的合約和庫存撥備導致毛利率為負 56%，比去年同期下降 45 個百分點。

In the quarter, total operating expenses were $54.9 million, 58% or $20.2 million higher year over year. This is primarily due to a restructuring charge of $16.1 million and $7.9 million of impairment of certain trade receivables.

本季總營運費用為 5,490 萬美元，年增 58%，即增加 2,020 萬美元。這主要是由於 1,610 萬美元的重組費用和某些應收帳款的減損 790 萬美元。

With our restructuring actions, we expect total operating expense, excluding restructuring charges, to be at the low end of our guidance range of $145 million to $165 million for the year. With restructuring charges included, we expect to be at the higher end of the range. We also expect a modest additional restructuring charge in Q4 in the $2 million to $5 million range.

透過我們的重組行動，我們預計今年的總營運費用（不包括重組費用）將處於我們指導範圍 1.45 億至 1.65 億美元的下限。考慮到重組費用，我們預計將處於該範圍的較高端。我們也預計第四季的額外重組費用將在 200 萬至 500 萬美元之間。

Cash operating costs in the quarter were $28 million. Capital expenditures totaled approximately $12 million in Q3 And for the full-year guidance on capital expenditures, as a reminder, we reduced our guidance range in the previous quarter to $25 million to $40 million. With the delay of a final investment decision for the Texas facility, as well as reductions in capital investments due to scope reductions from our restructuring activities, we expect capital expenditures for the year to be at the low end of this range.

本季現金營運成本為 2800 萬美元。第三季的資本支出總額約為 1,200 萬美元，對於全年資本支出指導，提醒一下，我們將上一季的指導範圍縮小至 2,500 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元。由於德州工廠的最終投資決定被推遲，以及由於重組活動範圍縮小而導致資本投資減少，我們預計今年的資本支出將處於該範圍的低端。

As Randy commented on earlier, during the quarter, we incurred approximately $147 million of noncash impairment charges. As a result of the decline in our market cap, our global corporate restructuring, and indicators of slowing hydrogen and fuel cell policy implementation and market adoption, we have updated our goodwill and nonfinancial asset impairment test due to these potential indicators of impairment.

正如蘭迪早些時候評論的那樣，在本季度，我們產生了約 1.47 億美元的非現金減損費用。由於我們的市值下降、全球企業重組以及氫能和燃料電池政策實施和市場採用放緩的跡象，我們根據這些潛在的減損跡象更新了商譽和非金融資產減損測試。

This resulting impairment is made up of approximately $40 million of goodwill and $107 million of PP&E to impair these assets to their estimated residual value. This PP&E impairment charge is as a result of the accounting treatment and is not reflective of our belief in the ability for our investments to deliver value to Ballard through product development, testing and manufacturing.

由此產生的減損由約 4,000 萬美元的商譽和 1.07 億美元的財產、廠房和設備 (PP&E) 組成，將這些資產減損至其估計殘值。此 PP&E 減損費用是會計處理的結果，並不反映我們相信我們的投資能夠透過產品開發、測試和製造為巴拉德創造價值。

We continue to have a strong balance sheet, ending the quarter with approximately $635.1 million in cash and cash equivalents. And with that, I'll turn the call over to the operator for questions.

我們繼續擁有強勁的資產負債表，本季末現金和現金等價物約為 6.351 億美元。然後，我會將電話轉給接線員詢問問題。

(Operator Instructions) Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）Rob Brown，Lake Street Capital Markets。

Just wanted to get a little bit of sense on kind of the order environment. Good to see some bus orders here. But are you seeing, I guess, continued bus activity and really that's it? Or I mean, that's maybe a little extreme, but maybe just kind of where are you seeing activity now, and what are you hearing, I guess, in the heavy-duty truck market and some of the other heavy-duty markets?

只是想對訂單環境有一點了解。很高興在這裡看到一些巴士訂單。但我想，你是否看到公車活動仍在繼續，而且真的就是這樣嗎？或者我的意思是，這可能有點極端，但也許只是您現在在哪裡看到活動，以及您在重型卡車市場和其他一些重型市場中聽到了什麼？

Yes. Great question, Rob. And notwithstanding kind of the muted order book new intake for Q3, we had a lot of activity in Q3 advancing opportunities with customers to late stages in our sales pipeline. So we feel very good about new order intake for Q4, and the New Flyer announcement is one illustrative example.

是的。好問題，羅布。儘管第三季的新訂單量有所減少，但我們在第三季開展了大量活動，將與客戶的機會推進到銷售管道的後期。因此，我們對第四季的新訂單量感到非常滿意，New Flyer 的公告就是一個說明性的例子。

Obviously, the European bus OEM that I referenced is a second. But there will be more coming in Q4. So we're pretty excited about some of the developments there. And they are primarily in bus, rail, and stationary.

顯然，我提到的歐洲客車 OEM 是第二個。但第四季將會有更多。因此，我們對那裡的一些發展感到非常興奮。它們主要分佈在公共汽車、鐵路和車站。

I would say the two markets that are really not tracking as quickly as we had expected, particularly, would be the truck market and the marine market. Certainly, the marine market is very, very slow for us this year compared to prior year. And the truck market for a variety of reasons, I continue to see that get extended. And that's -- when we kind of look at the delayed market adoption, the truck market is a very significant contributor there because of the size of that market.

我想說，兩個市場的發展速度確實沒有我們預期的那麼快，特別是卡車市場和船舶市場。當然，與去年相比，今年的海運市場對我們來說非常非常緩慢。由於各種原因，我繼續看到卡車市場擴大。那就是——當我們考慮延遲的市場採用時，由於卡車市場的規模，卡車市場是一個非常重要的貢獻者。

So those are the two markets, truck and marine, where we're seeing pretty significant challenges securing orders. We feel very good, though, about the bus, rail, and stationary markets where we continue to see progress. And I think we'll see additional order flow coming out of those market applications in Q4 and into next year.

因此，這就是卡車和船舶這兩個市場，我們在這兩個市場上看到了獲得訂單的巨大挑戰。不過，我們對公共汽車、鐵路和文具市場感覺非常好，我們在這些市場上繼續取得進展。我認為我們將在第四季度和明年看到這些市場應用的額外訂單流。

Okay. Great. And just a follow-up on the CapEx comments. What's sort of the baseline or sort of maintenance level CapEx you think you'll be run at before you get some clarity in the market?

好的。偉大的。這只是資本支出評論的後續行動。在您對市場有一定了解之前，您認為您將運行的基準或維持水平資本支出是什麼？

Yes. Good morning, Rob. Thanks for the question. I think as we look into 2025, obviously, we haven't put out our guidance expectations and ranges for next year as of yet. But I think if you kind of look at our current guidance range for this year of kind of that $25 million to $40 million, you take that midpoint, I think that the low to mid-end of that range is a reasonable expectation as we look into 2025.

是的。早安，羅布。謝謝你的提問。我認為，當我們展望 2025 年時，顯然我們尚未公佈明年的指導預期和範圍。但我認為，如果你看看我們今年目前的指導範圍，即 2500 萬美元到 4000 萬美元，你就取這個中點，我認為這個範圍的低端到中端是一個合理的預期，因為我們認為到2025年。

Jordan Levy, Truist Securities.

喬丹·利維 (Jordan Levy)，Truist 證券公司。

Given the timing, I guess, I'll first ask around the election. Can you just give us a sense of how you see the outcome of the US election today impacting anything on the adoption timeline? And then maybe just a second part of that, if you think that there was any holdup from any US customers you were in potential order discussions with during the third quarter ahead of the timing of the election?

我想，鑑於時間安排，我會先詢問有關選舉的問題。您能否告訴我們您如何看待今天的美國大選結果對採用時間表的影響？然後也許只是第二部分，如果您認為在選舉之前的第三季度與您進行潛在訂單討論的任何美國客戶有任何阻礙？

Yes. So first of all, Jordan, thanks for the question. We were expecting a question on the US election just given today's date here. We're not really basing our business plan on any one administration and any one country. So we really look to make sure we have a plan that's resilient around different administrations.

是的。首先，喬丹，謝謝你的提問。考慮到今天的日期，我們期待著有關美國大選的問題。我們的商業計劃並不是真正基於任何一屆政府和任何一個國家。因此，我們確實希望確保我們有一個針對不同政府的彈性計劃。

What I would say is that we were, I think, pleased that we saw some indicators that we are expecting guidance, final guidance, to move to policy implementation on 45V by the end of this year. So we certainly have seen indicators from the IRS and the DOE that there's an expectation that should happen by the end of the year, notwithstanding what happens in the election. So that's a recent statement. So hopefully, that is the case.

我想說的是，我認為我們很高興看到一些指標，這些指標表明我們期待指導意見，最終指導意見，以便在今年年底前轉向 45V 的政策實施。因此，我們當然已經看到美國國稅局和能源部的跡象表明，無論選舉中發生什麼，預計到年底都會發生這種情況。這是最近的聲明。希望情況確實如此。

You'll recall, this was supposed to be finalized under the rules August 23, 2023. The IRS came out with their guidance last December. So this is fairly significantly delayed. And I think that, in my opinion, is causing significant delay on the development of hydrogen projects, which is having implications for all hydrogen applications, including mobility applications in the US market.

您還記得，這本應根據規則於 2023 年 8 月 23 日最終確定。美國國稅局 (IRS) 去年 12 月發布了指導意見。所以這是相當明顯的延遲。我認為，這導致氫計畫的開發嚴重延遲，這對所有氫應用產生影響，包括美國市場的行動應用。

Now as a reminder, we are focused on projects and opportunities where you have centralized depot refueling, which does mitigate a little bit on the refueling infrastructure side. But of course, a clean hydrogen is a big part of the landscape moving forward to make sure zero tailpipe emissions really means zero tailpipe emissions.

現在提醒一下，我們專注於集中加油站加油的項目和機會，這確實減輕了加油基礎設施方面的壓力。當然，清潔氫氣是確保零廢氣排放真正意味著零廢氣排放的重要組成部分。

Got it. No, that makes total sense. Maybe just a follow-up. I just wanted to see if we could get any more insight into the $39 million in removal, not asking for any specific customers, obviously. But from -- I know you called out China and the comments as included in that.

知道了。不，這完全有道理。也許只是後續行動。我只是想看看我們是否可以更深入地了解 3900 萬美元的移除費用，顯然不要求任何特定客戶。但我知道你提到了中國以及其中的評論。

But I just wanted to see, were there any insights you could provide us with there? Were there orders that were more weighted toward any particular segment or geography or anything like that?

但我只是想看看，你能為我們提供什麼見解嗎？是否有訂單更偏重於任何特定的細分市場或地理位置或類似的東西？

Yes. Certainly, for the two largest ones that we moved out, certainly the Weichai-Ballard JV and the -- as we're doing a strategic review here, we're reassessing really everything on the table in terms of the product roadmap for the joint venture, future investments, governance, but also the tech transfer program that we've been working on and what we do on that tech transfer program going forward.

是的。當然，對於我們搬出的兩個最大的企業，當然是濰柴巴拉德合資企業和——當我們在這裡進行戰略審查時，我們正在重新評估聯合產品路線圖上的所有內容。投資、治理，還有我們一直在進行的技術轉移計畫以及我們未來在該技術轉移計畫上所做的工作。

We're completing existing deliverables, but what the next stage of that is. And so we've taken that out at this stage given the level of uncertainty in that strategic review. And then there is one other customer. I won't name the customer. But they are having liquidity challenges, and we thought this was a prudent thing to do given that it's unclear whether they're commercialization plans.

我們正在完成現有的可交付成果，但下一階段是什麼。因此，鑑於戰略審查的不確定性，我們在現階段已將其刪除。然後還有另一位顧客。我不會透露客戶的名字。但他們面臨流動性挑戰，鑑於尚不清楚它們是否是商業化計劃，我們認為這是明智之舉。

We have a take-or-pay contract with that customer. That being said, their commercialization plans are not materializing at the pace they expected, and they're going through a financing process. So with those two variables, we thought this was the prudent thing to do.

我們與該客戶簽訂了照付不議合約。話雖這麼說，他們的商業化計劃並沒有按照他們預期的速度實現，而且他們正在經歷融資過程。因此，對於這兩個變量，我們認為這是明智的做法。

Saumya Jain, UBS.

Saumya Jain，瑞銀。

Hey. How are you guys looking at order backlog going forward? And I guess, how does -- I know you guys had 122 at the end of Q3. How do you see that as reflective of a greater trend across the space? Or do you see that changing?

嘿。你們如何看待未來積壓的訂單？我想，我知道你們在第三季結束時有 122 個。您如何看待這反映了整個領域的更大趨勢？或者你認為這種情況正在改變嗎？

Yes. I think certainly, the trend across the broader spaces, as we characterized, is a deferred, delayed market adoption. That's both protracted policy uncertainty and the availability of low-cost, low-carbon hydrogen are compounding factors for sure.

是的。我當然認為，正如我們所描述的那樣，更廣泛領域的趨勢是推遲、延遲的市場採用。長期的政策不確定性和低成本、低碳氫的可用性肯定是複雜因素。

For the market applications that we're focused on, we still enjoy a relatively high market share. I think we have visibility on most opportunities and what most customers and end customers are doing, particularly in the bus and rail and stationary markets where we're seeing continued attraction there.

對於我們重點關注的市場應用，我們仍然享有較高的市場份額。我認為我們對大多數機會以及大多數客戶和最終客戶正在做什麼都有了解，特別是在公共汽車、鐵路和文具市場，我們看到那裡的持續吸引力。

So I feel like we're going to have additional contributions to the order book, as I mentioned, in Q4. But I think it will be very weighted as it has been with bus. And just to give you an example, the bus market is contributing the lion's share of revenue through 2024. We expect that to continue in 2025.

因此，正如我所提到的，我覺得我們將在第四季度對訂單簿做出額外貢獻。但我認為它會像公共汽車一樣具有很大的權重。舉個例子，到 2024 年，公車市場將貢獻最大的收入份額。我們預計這種情況將持續到 2025 年。

All right. Got it. And then how are you guys seeing -- I know last quarter you mentioned the cost per kilowatt sold to customers coming down. Do you still see that, or how is that playing out?

好的。知道了。然後你們怎麼看——我知道上個季度你們提到向客戶出售的每千瓦成本正在下降。您仍然看到這一點嗎？

Yes. On a quarter-to-quarter base, we haven't seen any material change on that front. But we do expect and contemplate in our financial model annual reductions in selling price, and we do plan for annual cost reductions as well. So both those are in our plans, and we expect to see that continuing trend.

是的。從季度來看，我們在這方面沒有看到任何實質變化。但我們確實期望並在我們的財務模型中考慮每年降低銷售價格，我們也確實計劃每年降低成本。所以這兩個都在我們的計劃中，我們預計會看到這種持續的趨勢。

There is pressure in the marketplace. There are a number of competitors who are trying to get their demonstration projects, trying to get pilot projects and field experience. It's a major competitive advantage we have with our market share and our field experience, and others are trying to get into the market and are using pricing as a mechanism to achieve that.

市場上有壓力。有許多競爭對手正在努力獲得他們的示範項目，試圖獲得試點項目和現場經驗。這是我們憑藉市場份額和現場經驗所擁有的主要競爭優勢，其他人正在嘗試進入市場並使用定價作為實現這一目標的機制。

Ameet Thakkar, BMO Capital Markets.

Ameet Thakkar，BMO 資本市場。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Just wanted to follow up, I guess, Randy, on your comment regarding, I guess, part of the write-down of the backlog or the removal of it. You mentioned you had a customer with a take-or-pay contract that was in some sort of financial distress. Is that what also drove the, I think, the $7 million, $8 million write-down on trade receivables? Is it the same customer?

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。我想，蘭迪，我只是想跟進你關於積壓工作的部分減記或刪除的評論。您提到您的一位客戶簽訂了照付不議合同，但該客戶陷入了某種財務困境。我認為這也是造成 700 萬美元、800 萬美元貿易應收帳款減記的原因嗎？是同一個客戶嗎？

No, no, a different situation.

不不不，情況不同。

Okay. And then I think at your Capital Markets Day back in '23, I mean, you've highlighted nine customers that were in that deployment phase where you see critical mass of orders and maybe in the hundreds for fuel cells. I was just wondering if you could level-set us right now on how many customers you have in that deployment phase. I mean certainly, (inaudible) looks like they're one of them, maybe Solaris. But I was wondering if you could maybe level-set us on that. Thanks.

好的。然後我想在 23 年的資本市場日上，我的意思是，您強調了處於部署階段的 9 個客戶，在這些客戶中您看到了臨界數量的訂單，可能有數百個燃料電池訂單。我只是想知道您現在是否可以讓我們了解您在該部署階段有多少客戶。我的意思是，（聽不清楚）看起來他們就是其中之一，也許是 Solaris。但我想知道你是否可以在這方面為我們設定一個水平。謝謝。

Yes. So the bus market is clearly where we're seeing that occur. We have a number of bus OEMs in the European market that I would characterize as on long-term supply agreements now, framework agreements, repeat orders, moving from a handful to larger deployments.

是的。因此，巴士市場顯然是我們看到這種情況發生的地方。我們在歐洲市場有許多客車原始設備製造商，我將其描述為現在的長期供應協議、框架協議、重複訂單，從少數轉向更大規模的部署。

And so when I look at the bus market, just as an illustrative example, I think probably over the last 12 months, by my count, we've secured orders for about 1,600 fuel cell engines for fuel cell buses in Europe and North America, with the largest orders, obviously, in both of those regions, respectively. And there are probably about five key bus OEMs that I would characterize in that category as being real players now for fuel cell buses. There is one other we expect to sign up and secure in Q4. We've been working with that customer for about a year and expect to sign a long-term supply agreement with them as well. So I think we probably have five or six key customers on the bus side that I would characterize as moving past demonstration and into real deployments.

因此，當我看客車市場時，作為一個說明性的例子，我認為在過去的12 個月裡，根據我的統計，我們已經在歐洲和北美獲得了約1,600 台用於燃料電池客車的燃料電池引擎的訂單，顯然，這兩個地區分別擁有最大的訂單。我認為該類別中可能有大約五個主要客車原始設備製造商是燃料電池客車的真正參與者。我們預計將在第四季度註冊並獲得另外一個。我們已經與該客戶合作了大約一年，並希望與他們簽署長期供應協議。因此，我認為我們在總線方面可能有五到六個關鍵客戶，我將其描述為已經過去了演示並進入了實際部署。

So that's very exciting on the bus market. When you're talking about 1,600 buses ordered in one year -- 1,600 engines for buses in one year, it's no longer a pilot program. I don't think, when you look at truck and marine, we see anything similar to that at this time. I do think on the rail side, there are probably three customers on the rail side that I'd highlight as moving into areas where the volume of either agreed contracts we have or that we expect in the next six months, would put them into that deployment category. Two of them are in the commuter rail market and one of them is in the freight locomotive market.

因此，這對巴士市場來說非常令人興奮。當您談論一年內訂購 1,600 輛巴士時——一年內訂購 1,600 台巴士引擎時，它不再是一個試點計劃。我認為，當你觀察卡車和船舶時，我們目前沒有看到任何類似的東西。我確實認為在鐵路方面，我要強調的是，鐵路方面可能有三個客戶，因為他們進入了我們已經達成的合約量或我們預計在未來六個月內簽訂的合約量將把他們納入其中的領域。其中兩個在通勤鐵路市場，一個在貨運機車市場。

And then on stationary, just to pause for a minute on stationary because I think this is kind of a very interesting market. And it's a market that's going to take some time to develop. But some interesting developments over the last quarter. Caterpillar, a partner we've worked with, won a US Department of Energy 2024 Hydrogen Program Merit Review Award for system development and integration.

然後在靜止狀態下，只是在靜止狀態下暫停一分鐘，因為我認為這是一個非常有趣的市場。這是一個需要一些時間來開發的市場。但上個季度出現了一些有趣的進展。我們的合作夥伴 Caterpillar 因係統開發和整合而榮獲美國能源部 2024 年氫計劃優異評審獎。

This is on a project in collaboration with Microsoft and Ballard, where they tested the feasibility of a large format hydrogen fuel cell for reliable backup power over a simulated 48-hour outage at a data center that was a data center basically hosted at a Microsoft site in Cheyenne, Wyoming. And that included a 1.5-megawatt Ballard fuel cell solution. And so that's kind of an important development in the quarter.

這是與 Microsoft 和巴拉德合作的一個項目，他們測試了大型氫燃料電池在模擬 48 小時斷電情況下在數據中心提供可靠備用電源的可行性，該數據中心基本上託管在 Microsoft 站點在懷俄明州夏延。其中包括 1.5 兆瓦巴拉德燃料電池解決方案。這是本季的重要進展。

And we recently shipped and commissioned another system over 1 megawatt for an unnamed customer at this stage, one of the world's largest companies, doing a field trial. And we expect to have more to say on that as that customer prepares for disclosure on that project.

我們最近為現階段的一位未透露姓名的客戶（世界上最大的公司之一）運送並調試了另一個超過 1 兆瓦的系統，正在進行現場試驗。當客戶準備披露該項目時，我們希望對此有更多的說法。

And then the last thing on the stationary market, we have announced previously our co-development work with Vertiv, and that continues, and I think is a very important collaboration for us particularly focused on stationary backup power solutions for the data center market.

關於固定式市場的最後一件事，我們之前宣布了與Vertiv 的共同開發工作，並且這種合作仍在繼續，我認為這對我們來說是一次非常重要的合作，特別是專注於資料中心市場的固定式備用電源解決方案。

So a couple of customers on the stationary side. They're still a demonstration phase at this point, but they are blue-chip customers that have a lot of understanding on the market requirements, particularly for the data center market. And we're continuing to work with some of these partners to advance the opportunities there.

所以有幾個顧客在固定的一邊。目前他們仍處於展示階段，但他們是藍籌客戶，對市場需求有很多了解，特別是對資料中心市場的需求。我們將繼續與其中一些合作夥伴合作，以推動那裡的機會。

Craig Shere, Tuohy Brothers.

克雷格·謝爾，圖伊兄弟。

So first, any other details on the China receivable write-off and implications for -- I mean, is it just geopolitical? Is it there's no money there? Or what's driving that? And are you, in your strategic review of Weichai JV, at all contemplating a full exit from the market, or is this just something that would go into hibernation possibly until China eventually does become the largest hydrogen market in the world?

首先，關於中國應收帳款核銷的任何其他細節及其影響——我的意思是，這僅僅是地緣政治嗎？是不是那裡沒錢了？或者是什麼推動了這一點？您在對瀟柴合資公司的策略評估中是否考慮完全退出市場，或者這只是可能進入休眠狀態，直到中國最終成為世界上最大的氫市場？

Yes. Craig, thanks for the question.

是的。克雷格，謝謝你的提問。

First of all, you mentioned China as the largest hydrogen market in the world. It is the largest hydrogen market today with 1/3 of global demand, about 28 million tonnes per year, I think more than double the US It's the largest renewable energy market as we know, largest market for fuel cell buses today. Probably 90% of the fuel cell buses globally, more than 90%, are in China, and probably more than 95% of fuel cell trucks on roads today are in China. And about 1/3 of hydrogen refueling stations globally are in China today.

首先，您提到中國是全球最大的氫能市場。它是當今最大的氫市場，需求量佔全球的1/3，每年約2800 萬噸，我認為是美國的兩倍多。車的最大市場。全球大概90%以上的燃料電池公車都在中國，90%以上都在中國，現在路上行駛的燃料電池卡車大概95%以上都在中國。目前全球約1/3的加氫站位於中國。

So a lot of indicators of a market that's not just the largest today, but we think will be the largest in 2030 and 2050.

許多指標表明，這個市場不僅是當今最大的市場，而且我們認為 2030 年和 2050 年將是最大的市場。

On the Weichai-Ballard JV, the various options, you mentioned kind of hibernation, exit. All those are on the table. Absolutely, all of those are on the table. This is a full strategic review. I don't want to presume the outcome because there's discussions underway with our partner in that market.

在濰柴巴拉德合資企業上，各種選擇，你提到的一種冬眠、退出。所有這些都擺在桌面上。當然，所有這些都在桌面上。這是一次全面的策略審查。我不想推測結果，因為我們正在與該市場的合作夥伴進行討論。

But we are looking at the structure of the JV, we're looking at governance, we're looking at the road map. The JV is currently fairly well capitalized. There's no investments required for 2024 and 2025. But we are revisiting our tech transfer program there. We're looking at our equity investment.

但我們正在研究合資企業的結構，我們正在研究治理，我們正在研究路線圖。該合資公司目前資本充足。2024 年和 2025 年無需投資。但我們正在重新審視我們的技術轉移計劃。我們正在考慮我們的股權投資。

So all things are on the table, and we'll report on that as we conclude that.

所以所有的事情都擺在桌面上，我們將在得出結論後進行報告。

In terms of the receivable that you asked about, that's really a situation where this is a receivable with the joint venture. And we, in our discussions with the JV, have had disagreements on milestone developments under our technology program. So there's a lot happening there, a lot of moving pieces. And so we've taken an impairment on that receivable, to be prudent. But that's kind of where we are right now.

至於你問到的應收帳款，這確實是與合資企業的應收帳款的情況。在與合資公司的討論中，我們對我們的技術計劃的里程碑發展存在分歧。所以那裡發生了很多事情，很多令人感動的事情。因此，為了謹慎起見，我們對該應收款進行了減損。但這就是我們現在的處境。

Rupert Merer, National Bank.

魯珀特·梅勒，國家銀行。

So as part of your restructuring, you're rationalizing your product development plans. Can you give us some more color on how the plans could change? What are you able to give up from your plans and where are you going to keep your focus?

因此，作為重組的一部分，您正在合理化您的產品開發計劃。您能給我們更多關於計劃如何改變的資訊嗎？您可以從計劃中放棄什麼？

Yes. A couple of things I would highlight, Rupert, is that we've really reduced the amount of continuation engineering and investment in legacy products and current products, and really focus the investment going forward on the next-generation, higher-performing, low-cost product, particularly what we call our small core and our medium core products. So a couple of market applications where we have effectively discontinued investment. So the marine market, we have a product today, the FCwave, we are not working on a next version of that FCwave product given what we've seen in the marine space. And on the truck market, the much larger engines required for the truck market, we've deferred our investment programs for large engines out into future years.

是的。魯伯特，我要強調的幾件事是，我們確實減少了對遺留產品和當前產品的延續工程和投資的數量，並將未來的投資真正集中在下一代、更高性能、低端產品上。因此，我們實際上已經停止了對一些市場應用的投資。因此，在海洋市場，我們今天有一個產品，FCwave，鑑於我們在海洋領域所看到的情況，我們不會開發該 FCwave 產品的下一個版本。在卡車市場上，卡車市場需要更大的發動機，我們將大型發動機的投資計劃推遲到未來幾年。

So those are some of the decisions we've made based on the market indicators that we're seeing and where we're seeing market adoption, both from a rationalization as well as a sequencing perspective. I would say as well, moving from the engines to the core stocks, similarly, we've reduced the amount of investment on legacy stacks and are really focused on the next-generation stacks that have higher performance and much lower cost. So the big emphasis for us on our investment going forward, we feel like we understand a lot about the market requirements and how technology translates to safety, reliability, durability. And what the big focus for us is really around product cost reduction, to help obviously expand the market opportunities, but obviously, gross margin expansion is a key driver for us moving forward.

這些是我們根據我們看到的市場指標以及我們看到的市場採用情況做出的一些決定，無論是從合理化還是排序的角度來看。我還要說，從引擎轉向核心庫存，類似地，我們減少了對傳統堆疊的投資量，並真正專注於具有更高性能和更低成本的下一代堆疊。因此，我們非常重視未來的投資，我們覺得我們非常了解市場需求以及技術如何轉化為安全性、可靠性和耐用性。我們的重點實際上是降低產品成本，以幫助明顯擴大市場機會，但顯然，毛利率擴張是我們前進的關鍵驅動力。

So as a follow-up, you have a little bit more time now before mass commercialization, and as you identify, there is a cost to carrying legacy products or commercializing products. Does this give you time to delay the, say, the next generation, push the technology and the cost a little further before finalizing your designs?

因此，作為後續行動，在大規模商業化之前，您現在有更多的時間，正如您所確定的，攜帶遺留產品或商業化產品是有成本的。這是否讓您有時間推遲下一代產品，在最終設計之前進一步推動技術和成本？

Yes. So in terms of prioritization, as I mentioned, given the traction we're seeing in the bus market, so our next-generation bus products is really where the big focus is over the next 24 or 48 months -- I should say, really 12, 24 months. And then over the next 36, 48 months is where we're looking at starting to bring on the larger truck modules given the timeline for adoption is out multiple years.

是的。因此，就優先順序而言，正如我所提到的，考慮到我們在客車市場上看到的吸引力，因此我們的下一代客車產品確實是未來24 或48 個月的重點- 我應該說，真的12、24個月。然後在接下來的 36、48 個月內，我們將開始引入更大的卡車模組，因為採用的時間表已經過去多年了。

Mac Whale, Cormark Securities.

麥克鯨，科馬克證券。

Just following up on a couple of issues, maybe you've sort of answered this, but if you look at the backlog, and it sounds as if that's weighted more, say, to the bus market than it has in the past, maybe there was more trucks. Would we expect to see -- are there positive implications then for margins on that? Like how does the shifting in the backlog speak to the possibility of getting the margins in that positive territory? Or does it?

只是跟進幾個問題，也許你已經回答了這個問題，但是如果你看看積壓的訂單，聽起來好像這對公共汽車市場的影響比過去更大，也許有更多的卡車。我們是否期望看到—這對利潤率有正面影響嗎？例如，積壓訂單的變化如何顯示在該積極區域獲得利潤的可能性？或者確實如此？

Yes. So I would say, for customers that are using current products and legacy products, the margin profile is not that attractive for us in the bus market, particularly in Europe where the pricing pressure is more pronounced, not just for the fuel cells, but also for the buses themselves in terms of the cost of the bus as well as battery packs selling prices as well for buses. So I would say margin profiles are slightly better in the US and our North American environment. But I think really what we're looking at is introducing next-generation products for the bus market is where we're going to see that leg-up on facilitating cost, like selling price reductions, but also facilitating gross margin expansion.

是的。因此，我想說，對於使用當前產品和舊產品的客戶來說，利潤狀況對我們在客車市場的吸引力並不大，特別是在歐洲，那裡的定價壓力更加明顯，不僅是燃料電池，而且對於公車本身而言，包括公車的成本以及電池組的售價以及公車的價格。所以我想說，美國和北美環境的利潤率略好。但我認為，我們真正關注的是為客車市場推出下一代產品，我們將看到在促進成本方面的優勢，例如降低銷售價格，同時也促進毛利率的擴張。

Okay. And so when you think about -- when you put in your backlog some orders, are they really on -- how do you -- do they go in there on pricing and margin as it is now? Or is it based on future developments that you expect to have in place over that time of the contract?

好的。因此，當你想一想，當你在積壓訂單中放入一些訂單時，它們是否真的在——你如何——它們是否像現在一樣按照定價和利潤進入那裡？還是基於您預計在合約期間的未來發展？

Yes. So I would characterize it a bit of a hybrid. So effectively, first of all, we're only putting into the order book, notwithstanding we've had things come out of the order book, we're only putting in real orders, right? So these are signed contracts, signed purchase orders, and in a number of cases, they're take-or-pay commitments as well, just to start there.

是的。所以我認為它有點混合。所以實際上，首先，我們只是放入訂單簿中，儘管我們已經從訂單簿中取出了一些東西，但我們只是放入了真實的訂單，對吧？因此，這些都是簽署的合約、簽署的採購訂單，在許多情況下，它們也是照付不議的承諾，只是從這裡開始。

Secondly, when we approve a contract at Ballard, we do a review of that contract looking at the pricing, looking at the gross margin, looking at the payment terms, looking at the commercial terms, et cetera. And one of the things that gets the most scrutiny is the contribution margin related to that opportunity, including the selling price and the cost assumptions.

其次，當我們批准巴拉德的合約時，我們會對該合約進行審查，查看定價、毛利率、付款條件、商業條款等等。最受關注的事情之一是與該機會相關的邊際貢獻，包括售價和成本假設。

On the cost assumptions, when we're selling current products for a current period year or even in the following year, we have very good visibility on what our costs are going to be. There might be some modest assumptions on some components, but we typically have most components locked in on the pricing side. So we're not taking huge risks on the cost side there. But as you look at longer-term supply agreements where we're supplying pricing indicators out two and three years, there are cost assumptions embedded in those plans. We typically don't have orders out two and three years.

根據成本假設，當我們在本期甚至下一年銷售當前產品時，我們對我們的成本有很好的了解。對某些組件可能有一些適度的假設，但我們通常將大多數組件鎖定在定價方面。因此，我們不會在成本方面冒巨大風險。但是，當您查看長期供應協議時，我們會提供兩年和三年的定價指標，這些計劃中包含了成本假設。我們通常沒有兩年或三年的訂單。

We typically have pricing indicators for those subsequent years, and then the orders get confirmed both by the customer and for us on the pricing side.

我們通常有隨後幾年的定價指標，然後訂單由客戶和我們在定價方面確認。

I'll use New Flyer as an illustrative example. We signed a long-term supply agreement. We signed up our purchase order in early 2024 for their 2024 deliverables. We've just signed up our purchase order for 2025 for 2025. Again, we've now locked in our selling price to New Flyer as an illustrative example, and our costs are understood in many cases, given the lead time for materials, a lot of those costs are already underway.

我將使用 New Flyer 作為說明性範例。我們簽訂了長期供貨協議。我們於 2024 年初簽署了 2024 年交付成果的採購訂單。我們剛剛簽署了 2025 年的採購訂單。再次，我們現在已經鎖定了 New Flyer 的銷售價格作為說明性示例，並且在許多情況下我們的成本都是可以理解的，考慮到材料的交貨時間，其中許多成本已經在進行中。

Okay, that's helpful. And then I just wanted to -- the last question was just on the restructuring. Are you -- have you -- the restructuring charges you've taken to date, does that get you the 30% savings you expect next year? Or is that a process over a number of quarters where we could expect some more?

好的，這很有幫助。然後我只是想——最後一個問題是關於重組的。您迄今為止所承擔的重組費用是否可以為您帶來明年預期的 30% 的節省？或者說，這個過程需要幾個季度才能完成，我們可以期待更多嗎？

Yes. I'll just make some comments and Kate can supplement as well.

是的。我只是發表一些評論，凱特也可以補充。

So first of all, most of the cost reduction will be coming out in 2025. There's some modest costs that we're carrying, very modest, in the first part of 2025, as part of the closure of operations in our Hobro, Denmark, facility. So we have a facility in Denmark that's doing manufacturing of our marine fuel cell engines. We are effectively transferring the production of those engines to Burnaby. And so to facilitate that transfer, there are some activities that will occur in early 2025.

首先，大部分成本削減將在 2025 年實現。作為丹麥霍布羅工廠關閉營運的一部分，我們在 2025 年上半年承擔了一些適度的成本，非常適度。因此，我們在丹麥設有一家工廠，負責製造船用燃料電池引擎。我們正在有效地將這些引擎的生產轉移到伯納比。因此，為了促進這項轉移，我們將在 2025 年初開展一些活動。

Once that's completed, we'll see basically the cost there drop off fully.

一旦完成，我們就會看到那裡的成本基本上完全下降。

So overall, by mid next year, I think the new annualized operating cost should be fully expressed, but most of it should be realized in Q1 of 2025 as well.

所以總體來說，到明年年中，我認為新的年化營運成本應該能夠完全體現出來，但大部分也應該在2025年第一季實現。

Yes. Thanks for the question, Mac.

是的。謝謝你的提問，麥克。

I think if you're kind of just looking at kind of 2025, again, kind of similar to the earlier question around capital, right now, if you kind of take our current guidance midpoint, reduce that by 30%, I think would be a fair proxy going into 2025 on a full year basis.

我認為，如果您只是著眼於 2025 年，那麼，類似於之前有關資本的問題，現在，如果您採用我們當前的指導中點，將其減少 30%，我認為2025 年全年的公平代理。

Martin Malloy, Johnson Rice.

馬丁·馬洛伊，約翰遜·賴斯。

I just wanted to ask kind of a bigger picture question here. Assuming there's positive guidelines coming out of treasury for 45V and projects get sanctioned next year for supplying blue or green hydrogen, when do you think that would start to impact the market adoption for your products? And when do you think that will start to impact your orders? Is that out in 2028 kind of time frame?

我只是想在這裡問一個更大的問題。假設財政部針對 45V 制定了積極的指導方針，並且明年供應藍色或綠色氫氣的項目獲得批准，您認為這何時會開始影響您產品的市場採用？您認為這什麼時候會開始影響您的訂單？是在 2028 年的時間範圍內發布嗎？

Yes. I think three, four years is kind of the earliest that you would see that occurring. It's going to take time for these projects. Once guidance is in place, to understand that guidance and then for project developers to work with financers, and then to build the project. So it will take a number of years before hydrogen is actually available.

是的。我認為這種情況最早會發生三、四年。這些項目需要時間。一旦指導到位，了解該指導，然後讓專案開發人員與財務人員合作，然後建立專案。因此，氫的真正可用還需要數年時間。

So in terms of moving from city buses deployments and looking at adding a really sizable truck fleet and adding a really sizable freight locomotive fleet, for example, in the US market, I think you're looking at that '28 to 2030 time frame.

因此，就從城市公車部署轉向增加真正規模的卡車車隊和增加真正規模的貨運機車車隊而言，例如在美國市場，我認為您正在考慮 28 至 2030 年的時間框架。

Okay. And then for a follow-up question, I just wanted to ask about if you're seeing any interest from customers in using methanol as a fuel source for PEM fuel cells?

好的。對於後續問題，我只想問您是否看到客戶有興趣使用甲醇作為 PEM 燃料電池的燃料來源？

Yes. So we used to have, many years ago, a methanol-based business for stationary power where methanol would be reformed right inside the total system, and then that reformed methanol would end up with hydrogen that would be used in the PEM fuel cell. We sold that business a number of years ago. It was primarily focused on backup power, including the telecom market.

是的。因此，很多年前，我們曾經有過一項基於甲醇的固定發電業務，其中甲醇將在整個系統內進行重整，然後重整後的甲醇最終會產生氫氣，用於 PEM 燃料電池。幾年前我們賣掉了那家公司。它主要專注於備用電源，包括電信市場。

I haven't really seen, if you go back, the customer that bought that business actually buys from us stacks for those systems. And what I've seen is that there hasn't really been any takeoff in that market from five years ago to today, I'd say the numbers are still relatively modest. And I don't see that changing for the foreseeable future. I haven't seen any massive demand for methanol-based stationary power applications, and certainly not in mobility. I should mention, Martin, that for marine applications, there's lots of opportunity for methanol, particularly for large freight going -- sea freight.

如果你回去的話，我還沒有真正看到購買該業務的客戶實際上從我們這裡購買了這些系統的堆疊。我所看到的是，從五年前到今天，這個市場並沒有真正起飛，我想說這個數字仍然相對溫和。我認為在可預見的未來這種情況不會改變。我還沒有看到對基於甲醇的固定電力應用有任何巨大的需求，尤其是在行動領域。馬丁，我應該提到，對於海運應用，甲醇有很多機會，特別是對於大型貨運－海運。

I think methanol is a very viable candidate, but not used in PEM fuel cells. Used in engines or possibly in solid oxide fuel cells.

我認為甲醇是一個非常可行的候選者，但未用於 PEM 燃料電池。用於引擎或可能用於固態氧化物燃料電池。

Kashy Harrison, Piper Sandler.

卡希·哈里森，派珀·桑德勒。

So just one for me. I was wondering if we could get a bit more detail on how to think about 4Q revenues. Kate, I know you indicated that it's back-end weighted, but just any additional color would be greatly appreciated.

所以只給我一個。我想知道我們是否可以獲得有關如何考慮第四季度收入的更多詳細資訊。凱特，我知道你說過它是後端加權的，但如果有任何額外的顏色，我們將不勝感激。

Thanks, Kashy, for the question.

謝謝卡西提出的問題。

I think historically, we've been messaging somewhere between kind of a 30% to 40% H1 versus a 60% to 70% H2 revenue split. The last few years, we've been sort of a 30-70 split between H1, H2. I think this year, just given Randy's comments and the protracted revenue outlook and all the factors that are kind of being, I think, that are now flowing through our numbers. I think we can expect this year to be more of a 40-60 split H1/H2.

我認為從歷史上看，我們一直在傳達介於 30% 到 40% 的上半年收入分配和 60% 到 70% 的下半年收入分配之間的訊息。過去幾年，H1 和 H2 之間的比例為 30-70。我認為今年，考慮到蘭迪的評論和長期的收入前景，以及我認為現在正在我們的數據中流動的所有因素。我認為我們可以預期今年上半年/下半年的比例將是 40-60。

Your next question will come from Dushyant Ailani with Jefferies.

您的下一個問題將由 Jefferies 的 Dushyant Ailani 提出。

This is (inaudible) from Jefferies. I just want to go back to the China JV with Weichai. Do you think that's going to impact all of Weichai's 15% ownership in Ballard as you guys review the JV?

這是（聽不清楚）來自 Jefferies 的。我只想回到與濰柴的中國合資企業。當你們審查合資企業時，您認為這會影響濰柴在巴拉德的 15% 所有權嗎？

I don't think at this time that's something that Weichai is interested in doing, but I can't speak for Weichai.

我認為目前濰柴沒有興趣做這件事，但我不能代表濰柴發言。

And then just on the Texas gigafactory, as you guys defer that option, is there any risk to the $94 million funding based on the election outcome?

然後，就德州的超級工廠而言，當你們推遲這項選擇時，基於選舉結果的 9,400 萬美元資金是否有任何風險？

I don't think so. The funding has been awarded already. So it would be a situation where we are -- if we move forward, we will already have an awarded fund that we're working against. So this isn't a new award that's required under a new administration.

我不這麼認為。資金已經發放。因此，我們現在的情況是——如果我們繼續前進，我們將已經擁有一個我們正在努力的獎勵基金。因此，這並不是新政府所要求的新獎項。

Craig Irwin, ROTH Capital Partners.

克雷格歐文，羅仕資本合夥人。

It's Andrew on for Craig. Quick one for me because most of my questions have been answered. But you guys talked about cost per kilowatt coming down. I was wondering if you guys had any update on pricing trends you guys are seeing in the market?

安德魯替補克雷格。對我來說很快，因為我​​的大部分問題都已得到解答。但你們談到了每千瓦成本的下降。我想知道你們是否對市場上的定價趨勢有任何更新？

Yes, Andrew, good question. I would say, depending on the market application, depending on the volume, we're still probably in the $700 per kilowatt to $1,000 plus sometimes, depending on the application, in that range.

是的，安德魯，好問題。我想說，根據市場應用，根據容量，我們仍然可能在每千瓦 700 美元到 1,000 美元之間，有時根據應用，在這個範圍內。

This concludes our question-and-answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Randy MacEwen for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

我想將會議轉交蘭迪·麥克尤恩先生發表閉幕詞。請繼續。

Thanks, Chuck. And thank you all for joining us today. Kate, Sumit and I look forward to speaking with you next quarter.

謝謝，查克。感謝大家今天加入我們。凱特、蘇米特和我期待下個季度與您交談。

This brings today's conference to a close. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for participating, and have a pleasant day.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路。感謝您的參與，祝您有個愉快的一天。