美國運通 (AXP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the American Express Q2 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加美國運通 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的通話正在被錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to our host, Head of Investor Relations, Mr. Kartik Ramachandran. Thank you. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將會議交給我們的主持人、投資者關係主管 Kartik Ramachandran 先生。謝謝。請繼續。

Thank you, Donna, and thank you all for joining today's call. As a reminder before we begin, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements about the company's future business and financial performance. These are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties.

謝謝你，唐娜，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。在我們開始之前提醒一下，今天的討論包含有關公司未來業務和財務表現的前瞻性陳述。這些都是基於管理階層目前的預期，並受風險和不確定性的影響。

Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these statements are included in today's presentation slides and in our reports on file with the SEC. The discussion today also contains non-GAAP financial measures. The comparable GAAP financial measures are included in this quarter's earnings materials, as well as the earnings materials for the prior periods we discuss. All of these are posted on our website at ir.americanexpress.com.

今天的簡報幻燈片和我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告中都包含了可能導致實際結果與這些聲明有重大差異的因素。今天的討論也包含非公認會計準則財務指標。本季的收益資料以及我們討論的前期收益資料中包含了可比較的 GAAP 財務指標。所有這些都發佈在我們的網站 ir.americanexpress.com 上。

We'll begin today with Steve Squeri, Chairman and CEO, who will start with some remarks about the company's progress and results. And then Christophe Le Caillec, Chief Financial Officer, will provide a more detailed review of our financial performance. After that, we'll move to a Q&A session on the results with both Steve and Christophe.

今天的演講首先由董事長兼首席執行官史蒂夫·斯奎裡 (Steve Squeri) 主持，他將首先介紹公司的進展和業績。然後，財務長 Christophe Le Caillec 將對我們的財務表現進行更詳細的回顧。之後，我們將與史蒂夫和克里斯托夫就結果進行問答。

With that, let me turn it over to Steve.

說完這些，讓我把麥克風交給史蒂夫。

Thank you, Kartik, and good morning, everybody, and thanks for joining us on a beautiful Friday morning here in the summer. So, thank you. We had another strong quarter. Revenues reached a record $17.9 billion, up 9% year over year, earnings per share $4.08, up 17%, excluding last year's gain from the sale of Accertify.

謝謝你，卡蒂克，大家早安，謝謝你們在夏天這個美麗的星期五早上加入我們。所以，謝謝你。我們又度過了一個強勁的季度。營收達到創紀錄的 179 億美元，年增 9%，每股收益 4.08 美元，年增 17%，這還不包括去年出售 Accertify 的收益。

Total Card Member spending was up 7%, which was consistent with the pattern we've seen this year, while spend in some of the travel categories like airlines and lodging was softer, overall spending was a quarterly record. Based on our strong performance year-to-date, we are reaffirming our full year revenue growth and EPS guidance that we provided in January.

持卡會員總消費成長了 7%，這與我們今年看到的模式一致，雖然航空和住宿等一些旅遊類別的消費有所疲軟，但總體消費創下了季度紀錄。基於我們今年迄今為止的強勁表現，我們重申我們在一月份提供的全年收入成長和每股盈餘指引。

Last month, we received the results of the Fed's annual CCAR process which set our preliminary stress capital buffer requirement at the lowest permissible level of 2.5%. The results once again demonstrated that we had the lowest projected credit card loss and highest profitability rates under the Fed stress test among all banks subject to CCAR.

上個月，我們收到了聯準會年度 CCAR 流程的結果，將我們的初步壓力資本緩衝要求設定為最低允許水準 2.5%。結果再次證明，在所有接受 CCAR 測試的銀行中，我們在聯準會壓力測試下的預期信用卡損失最低，獲利率最高。

These results are a testament to the earnings power of our resilient business model and our strong capital position. Looking ahead, we're very excited about the upcoming refresh of our US Consumer and Business Platinum Cards this fall.

這些結果證明了我們富有彈性的商業模式和強大的資本狀況的獲利能力。展望未來，我們對今年秋季即將更新的美國消費者和商業白金卡感到非常興奮。

The competition for premium customers, while always intense, has been especially heated for over a decade, and it's been a very good thing for our customers, for the category and for us. In fact, the past decade has been one of the very best in terms of growing our premium card portfolios and scaling our Card Member base.

高端客戶的競爭一直都很激烈，但十多年來尤其激烈，這對我們的客戶、產品類別和我們自己來說都是一件非常好的事情。事實上，就增加我們的優質卡組合和擴大我們的持卡會員基礎而言，過去十年是最好的十年之一。

As the industry leader in premium cards, we benefit from a strong interest in the category. The total addressable market is growing at a healthy rate globally, driven by several factors, including our own value proposition innovations, the investments of competitors, and generational shifts in the appeal of premium products.

作為高端卡產業的領導者，我們受益於人們對該類別的濃厚興趣。全球整體目標市場正在以健康的速度成長，這受到多種因素的推動，包括我們自己的價值主張創新、競爭對手的投資以及高端產品吸引力的世代轉變。

As a result, the basis of competition has shifted, especially among affluent consumers, away from cashback and no-fee products and towards partner-added value, access, experiences, and superior customer service, where we do excel. We believe we can continue to lead in this space as the category and competitive interests continue to grow, but let me tell you why.

因此，競爭的基礎已經發生轉變，尤其是在富裕消費者中，競爭的基礎已經從現金返還和免費產品轉向合作夥伴增值、訪問、體驗和卓越的客戶服務，而我們在這方面確實表現出色。我們相信，隨著類別和競爭利益的不斷增長，我們可以繼續在這個領域保持領先地位，但讓我來告訴你原因。

To start with, we've led the premium card category for over 40 years. We achieved that position by creating a multi-faceted Membership-focused business model, which includes a wide range of assets that set us apart and, when taken together, are very difficult to replicate.

首先，我們在高階卡領域已經領先了 40 多年。我們透過創建以會員為中心的多方面商業模式實現了這一地位，該模式包含使我們與眾不同的廣泛資產，而且綜合起來很難複製。

To build on our success, we've increased our focus on the premium space over the last several years, strategically investing in refreshing our products regularly, all around the world. Our refresh strategy focuses on enriching our value propositions with more benefits and offerings in areas that our customers value most, at a price point that delivers outstanding value.

為了鞏固我們的成功，過去幾年中，我們更加關注高端市場，並在全球範圍內進行策略性投資，定期更新我們的產品。我們的更新策略專注於豐富我們的價值主張，在客戶最重視的領域提供更多優勢和產品，並以提供卓越價值的價格提供。

A key element of this strategy is our ability to attract a growing number of premier partners who fund offerings to gain access to our large-scale, high-spending customer base. Beyond the individual product value propositions, we're also constantly evolving our suite of experiences and benefits that set the competitive standard, giving our Card Members access to over 27,000 of the most sought after restaurants, wineries and other venues through Resy and Tock, the largest airport lounge network in the industry, which includes 30 proprietary Centurion Lounges today with more on the way, as well as access to all Delta Lounges, exclusive experiences across sports, fashion, and entertainment, and a wide range of benefits at over 2,600 premium hotels and resorts worldwide.

這項策略的關鍵要素是我們能夠吸引越來越多的優質合作夥伴，他們為產品提供資金，從而獲得我們龐大、高消費的客戶群。除了個別產品的價值主張之外，我們還在不斷發展我們的體驗和福利套件，以設定競爭標準，讓我們的持卡會員能夠通過業內最大的機場休息室網絡 Resy 和 Tock 進入超過 27,000 家最受歡迎的餐廳、酒莊和其他場所，其中包括目前 30 個專有的 Centurion 休息室，還有更多娛樂家高級飯店和度假村的各種福利。

This strategy has worked especially well for us. For example, in each of the recent refreshes we've done for our US Consumer Gold, Delta and Hilton cards over the last two years, customer demand has increased, driving double-digit account growth., revenue growth in each of the three portfolios is up over 30%, with card fee revenues up at least 60%, and spend retention remains very high at 98%, and we've seen no meaningful change after the refreshes.

這項策略對我們來說特別有效。例如，在過去兩年中，我們對美國消費者金卡、達美卡和希爾頓卡進行的每次更新中，客戶需求都有所增加，推動帳戶數量實現兩位數增長，這三個組合的收入增長率均超過 30%，卡費收入增長率至少為 60%，支出保留率仍然很高，達到 98%，但更新後我們並未看到任何有意義的變化。

Additionally, the high credit quality of the new customers we're bringing in has helped us widen the gap between our credit metrics and the rest of the industry. As we look ahead to our US Platinum launches, you can expect to see the same formula, providing the best premium experience to Card Members with more differentiated benefits and more world-class partners joining us to offer Card Members more value that substantially exceeds the annual fee.

此外，我們引入的新客戶的高信用品質幫助我們擴大了信用指標與行業其他公司之間的差距。展望美國白金卡的推出，您可以期待看到同樣的模式，為持卡人提供最佳的優質體驗，提供更多差異化的福利，並有更多世界一流的合作夥伴加入我們，為持卡人提供遠遠超過年費的更多價值。

Longer term, when you combine our proven product refresh strategy with our global, premium customer base at scale, our network of world-class partners, our lifestyle-oriented, Membership-defined brand, and an addressable market that is growing at a healthy annual rate globally, especially in key areas we're focused on the premium sector and younger consumers. These are all the reasons why we believe we have a long runway for growth and can sustain our momentum and our leadership in the premium space going forward.

從長遠來看，當您將我們成熟的產品更新策略與我們規模龐大的全球高端客戶群、世界一流的合作夥伴網絡、以生活方式為導向、以會員為中心的品牌以及全球每年以健康速度增長的潛在市場結合起來時，尤其是在關鍵領域，我們專注於高端領域和年輕消費者。這些都是我們相信我們擁有長期成長空間並能在未來保持發展勢頭和在高端領域的領導地位的原因。

I'll now turn it over to Christophe to provide more detail on the second quarter results.

現在我將把時間交給 Christophe，讓他提供有關第二季度業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thanks, Steve, and good morning, everyone. Let me start with the highlights for the quarter on slide 2. As Steve noted, we reported revenue growth of 9% and earnings per share of $4.08, up 17%, excluding the gain from Accertify last year.

謝謝，史蒂夫，大家早安。讓我從幻燈片 2 上的本季亮點開始。正如史蒂夫指出的，我們報告的收入增長了 9%，每股收益為 4.08 美元，增長了 17%，這還不包括去年 Accertify 的收益。

On slide 2, you'll see a list of several notable developments in the quarter. We've selected these highlights because they are great indicators of the progress we're making towards our long-term strategy across key areas of the business, like technology, partnerships, or products.

在第 2 張投影片上，您將看到本季幾個值得注意的發展的清單。我們之所以選擇這些亮點，是因為它們很好地表明了我們在技術、合作夥伴關係或產品等業務關鍵領域實現長期策略所取得的進展。

Before we get into the details of this quarter's results, let me step back for a moment to reflect on what the trends from this quarter indicate. When you look at our performance across spend, transactions, demand for new cards, retention, and credit, in the context of the significant macroeconomic and geopolitical developments of the past few months, what you see is remarkable resilience across our customer base.

在我們了解本季業績細節之前，讓我先回顧一下本季的趨勢。當您在過去幾個月重大的宏觀經濟和地緣政治發展的背景下審視我們在支出、交易、新卡需求、保留和信貸方面的表現時，您會看到我們的客戶群表現出了驚人的韌性。

And while there may be a bit of prudence around the edges, this performance indicates the strength of our business model and strategy.

儘管我們可能有些謹慎，但這一表現顯示了我們的商業模式和策略的實力。

Turning to Billed Business trends. At the overall level, spend was consistent with Q1, up 7% for the quarter. Goods and Services spending, which accounts for over 70% of our business, continued to grow at a similar pace to Q1. T&E growth was down a bit versus Q1, driven by softer airline and lodging spend, while restaurant spending continued to be very strong, up 8% FX adjusted. Our fastest growing cohorts kept up their momentum.

轉向計費業務趨勢。整體而言，支出與第一季持平，本季成長 7%。商品和服務支出占我們業務的 70% 以上，繼續以與第一季相似的速度成長。由於航空和住宿支出疲軟，差旅與費用成長與第一季相比略有下降，而餐飲支出持續保持強勁，經外匯調整後成長 8%。我們成長最快的群體保持了其發展勢頭。

In the US Consumer business, Millennial spend was up 10%, and Gen-Z spend was growing around 40%, though starting from a smaller base. And our International business continued to grow in double digits, up 12%, FX-adjusted in the quarter. Transaction growth, up 9%, is another indicator of strong customer engagement and is largely consistent with what we've been seeing over the past few quarters. We acquired 3.1 million new cards in Q2, within the range of recent quarters. We sometimes get asked how we can sustain this space. Starting this quarter, we're breaking out the number of cars we acquired by segment. As you can see, we've acquired about 1.5 million new cards per quarter in the US Consumer business over the past few quarters.

在美國消費者業務中，千禧世代的支出成長了 10%，Z 世代的支出成長了約 40%，儘管基數較小。我們的國際業務持續保持兩位數成長，本季經外匯調整後成長了 12%。交易量成長 9%，這是客戶參與度強勁的另一個指標，與我們過去幾季看到的情況基本一致。我們在第二季度獲得了 310 萬張新卡，與最近幾季持平。我們有時會被問到如何維持這個空間。從本季開始，我們將按細分市場列出我們收購的汽車數量。正如您所看到的，過去幾個季度，我們在美國消費者業務中每季度獲得約 150 萬張新卡。

When you compare that to industry-wide new account originations, even among customers with FICO scores above 660, it's a relatively small share, indicating continued runway for growth.

如果將其與全行業新帳戶發放量進行比較，即使在 FICO 分數高於 660 的客戶中，其份額也相對較小，這表明仍有成長空間。

Turning to balance growth and credit. Loans and Card Member Receivables increased 6% year-over-year FX-adjusted, growing at a similar pace to Billed Business. This quarter's results had about a 1 percentage point impact from the held-for-sale portfolios that we previously disclosed.

轉向平衡成長和信貸。貸款和持卡會員應收款經外匯調整後年增 6%，與帳單業務的成長速度相似。我們先前揭露的持有待售投資組合對本季業績產生了約 1 個百分點的影響。

Our premium products continue to be the primary driver of that growth, with our Pay-Over-Time and Cobrand portfolios driving around 80% of growth in Card Member Revolving Loans in the quarter. Our growth in premium products over the past few years has further strengthened the credit quality of our portfolio, resulting in very strong credit performance.

我們的優質產品繼續成為這一增長的主要驅動力，我們的分期付款和聯合品牌產品組合在本季度推動了持卡人循環貸款約 80% 的增長。過去幾年，我們的優質產品的成長進一步增強了我們產品組合的信用質量，從而帶來了非常強勁的信用表現。

Q2 delinquency and write-off rates remained low, with delinquency rates flat to Q1, while write-offs rates declined. Our strong credit performance is remarkable across all age groups. In fact, the delinquency rate for our US Millennial and Gen-Z customers are not only better than the industry average for those age groups, but they are also nearly 40% better than the industry average for older age groups.

第二季度的拖欠率和註銷率仍然很低，其中拖欠率與第一季持平，而註銷率有所下降。我們的信用表現在各個年齡層都十分出色。事實上，我們美國千禧世代和 Z 世代客戶的拖欠率不僅低於該年齡層的行業平均水平，而且比更大年齡層的行業平均水平低近 40%。

The strength of our premium model also holds in a stressed environment, as demonstrated by the Fed CCAR results, which show that we have the highest ROA and lowest credit card loss rate across all banks subject to the stress test.

我們的優質模式的優勢在壓力環境下依然保持，Fed CCAR 結果證明了這一點，該結果顯示，在所有接受壓力測試的銀行中，我們的 ROA 最高，信用卡損失率最低。

Total provision expense was $1.4 billion for the quarter, which includes a reserve build of $222 million, reflecting growth in loan volume and a worse macroeconomic outlook. As a reminder, the scenarios used in the reserve model at the end of Q1 did not incorporate the changes in the outlook that we started to see in early April.

本季總撥備支出為 14 億美元，其中包括 2.22 億美元的儲備金，反映出貸款量的成長和宏觀經濟前景的惡化。提醒一下，第一季末儲備模型中使用的情境並未反映我們在 4 月初開始看到的前景變化。

Turning to revenue on slide 14. I'll hit on a few of the key points. FX-adjusted revenue growth was 9%, both for the quarter as well as for the first six months of the year. We continued to see strong momentum in net card fees, which reached record levels and were up 20% FX-adjusted again this quarter.

轉到第 14 張投影片上的收入。我將談幾個關鍵點。經外匯調整後，本季和今年前六個月的營收成長率均為 9%。我們繼續看到淨卡費用的強勁勢頭，達到了創紀錄的水平，本季經外匯調整後再次上漲了 20%。

The exceptional growth we've seen in card fees over the past several years, averaging 17% per year since 2019, really speaks to our strategy as we've increased our focus on the premium space. This is the result of first, acquiring new customers onto fee-based products, then driving strong retention of our customer base and finally, consistently increasing value through product refreshes and pricing accordingly. The result is a net card fee line that has more than doubled since 2019.

過去幾年，我們看到信用卡費用的顯著增長，自 2019 年以來平均每年增長 17%，這確實證明了我們的策略，因為我們更加關注高端領域。這是因為我們先透過收費產品吸引新客戶，然後強力保留現有客戶群，最後透過產品更新和相應定價不斷提升價值。結果是，自 2019 年以來，淨卡費用線增加了一倍以上。

Taking a look next at our premium lending business, net interest income grew at a double-digit pace again this quarter. One question we sometimes get is around the drivers of our strong growth in NII over the past several years. Starting this quarter, we've aimed to give you a picture of how both volume and margin have led to this growth.

接下來看看我們的優質貸款業務，本季淨利息收入再次以兩位數的速度成長。我們有時會被問到的一個問題是，過去幾年來國家資訊基礎設施強勁成長的驅動因素是什麼。從本季開始，我們的目標是讓您了解銷售和利潤是如何實現這一成長的。

The takeaway here is that since 2019, a bit more than half of the increase in NII has come from balance sheet growth. This volume growth has been about the same as growth in Card Member spending. The reason that NII has grown faster than volumes is because we've increased the margin generated on these balances.

這裡的要點是，自 2019 年以來，NII 成長的一半多一點來自資產負債表的成長。這一數量增長與持卡會員消費的增長大致相同。NII 的成長速度快於交易量的成長速度，是因為我們增加了這些餘額所產生的利潤。

We have achieved that margin expansion by improving pricing for risk, by rolling out more lending features, especially across our historically pay-in-full charge card products, and by growing our deposit business.

我們透過改善風險定價、推出更多貸款功能（特別是在我們歷史上全額支付的信用卡產品中）以及擴大存款業務實現了利潤率的擴大。

Most importantly, we've achieved this growth while maintaining very low credit risk, in fact, widening the gap to peers. And looking ahead, we believe we have a long runway for growth in our premium lending business. To sum up our revenue performance, we feel good about the momentum we have halfway through the year with the overall revenue growth tracking in line with our full year guidance.

最重要的是，我們在實現這一成長的同時，保持了非常低的信用風險，事實上，擴大了與同行的差距。展望未來，我們相信我們的優質貸款業務擁有很長的成長空間。總結我們的收入表現，我們對今年中期的發展勢頭感到滿意，整體收入成長與我們的全年預期一致。

Let's turn to expense performance on slide 18. If you think about the way we manage the expense base, we generally expect VCE to grow a bit faster than revenue as a result of the mix shift towards premium products and the investment we make in products to drive acquisition, engagement, and strong credit outcomes.

讓我們來看看第 18 張投影片上的費用表現。如果你考慮我們管理費用基礎的方式，我們通常會預期 VCE 的成長速度會比收入快一點，這是由於產品組合向高端產品的轉變以及我們在產品上的投資，以推動收購、參與和強勁的信貸結果。

At the same time, we look to drive leverage from marketing and OpEx over time as we generate efficiencies and economy of scale. That continues to be how you should think about our expense base for the full year.

同時，隨著我們提高效率和規模經濟，我們希望隨著時間的推移，從行銷和營運支出中發揮槓桿作用。您仍然應該這樣考慮我們全年的支出基礎。

In Q2, VCE expenses grew a bit faster than revenue, and marketing grew in the mid-single digits. OpEx, excluding Accertify, was up 9% in the quarter, a bit higher than our expectation coming into the year. The year-over-year growth is predominantly driven by investment in our enterprise risk management capabilities and technology as the company scales.

在第二季度，VCE 支出的成長速度略快於收入的成長速度，而行銷費用的成長速度則達到了中等個位數。不包括 Accertify 在內的營運支出在本季上漲了 9%，略高於我們今年的預期。隨著公司規模的擴大，年成長主要得益於對企業風險管理能力和技術的投資。

Looking ahead, for the full year, we expect OpEx growth to be in the mid-single digits versus last year, ex Accertify, predominantly driven by the weaker dollar. As you think about the ability of our business model to drive expense leverage, I’d note that since 2023, we've driven 4 points of operating leverage, with operating expenses as a percentage of revenue down from 25% in 2023 to 21% this quarter.

展望未來，我們預計全年營運支出成長率將與去年同期相比保持在中等個位數，不包括 Accertify，這主要受到美元走弱的影響。當您思考我們的業務模式推動費用槓桿的能力時，我會注意到，自 2023 年以來，我們的營運槓桿已提高了 4 個百分點，營運費用佔收入的百分比從 2023 年的 25% 下降到本季度的 21%。

Moving on to capital. Our CET1 ratio was 10.6%, within our 10% to 11% target range. We returned $2 billion of capital to our shareholders, including $0.6 billion of dividends and $1.4 billion of share repurchases. In Q1, we increased our dividend by 17%.

轉向資本。我們的 CET1 比率為 10.6%，處於 10% 至 11% 的目標範圍內。我們向股東返還了 20 億美元的資本，其中包括 6 億美元的股息和 14 億美元的股票回購。在第一季度，我們將股息提高了 17%。

Based on the CCAR results, our preliminary stress capital buffer requirement remains at 2.5%, the lowest prescribed level, allowing us to continue executing our disciplined capital management strategy while returning excess capital to our shareholders. Our business continues to generate very strong returns, with an ROE of 36% in the quarter, providing us with capital flexibility.

根據 CCAR 結果，我們的初步壓力資本緩衝要求仍為 2.5%，即規定的最低水平，這使我們能夠繼續執行嚴格的資本管理策略，同時將多餘的資本返還給股東。我們的業務繼續產生非常強勁的回報，本季的 ROE 為 36%，為我們提供了資本彈性。

That brings me to our 2025 guidance. We're now halfway through the year, having delivered 9% FX-adjusted revenue growth and EPS of $7.71. Trends across the business have been largely stable. While there continues to be uncertainty in how the coming quarters will play out, we have increased confidence in our path forward. As a result, we are re-affirming our full year guidance of revenue growth of 8% to 10% and earnings per share between $15 and $15.50.

這讓我想到了我們 2025 年的指導。今年已過半，經外匯調整後，我們的營收成長了9%，每股收益達到7.71美元。整個業務的趨勢基本上穩定。儘管未來幾季的情況仍然存在不確定性，但我們對未來的道路更有信心。因此，我們重申全年營收成長 8% 至 10% 和每股收益在 15 美元至 15.50 美元之間的預期。

With that, I'll turned the call back over to Kartik, and we'll take your questions.

說完這些，我將把電話轉回給卡蒂克，我們將回答您的問題。

Thank you, Christophe. Before we open up the lines for Q&A, I will ask those in the queue to please limit yourself to just one question. Thank you for your cooperation, and with that, the operator will now open up the line for questions. Operator?

謝謝你，克里斯托夫。在我們開始問答環節之前，我請排隊的各位只問一個問題。謝謝您的合作，接線員現在將開通熱線以解答您的疑問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Sanjay Sakhrani, KBW.

（操作員指示）Sanjay Sakhrani，KBW。

Thank you. Good morning. Steve, Christophe, I know Billed Business trends have been pretty resilient in the face of this uncertainty on the macro side. I'm just curious how you guys are planning for maybe just the intermediate term on spending trends.

謝謝。早安.史蒂夫、克里斯托夫，我知道，面對宏觀的不確定性，帳單業務趨勢一直相當有彈性。我只是好奇你們對於中期支出趨勢有何規劃。

I assume it's stable, but what gets things going? I know SMB's been sort of the hardest hit, airlines spend as well. And if I could just ask on that same vein on SMB, maybe you could just address that Amazon portfolio loss and how we should think about how that plays into SMB. Thanks.

我認為它是穩定的，但是什麼讓事情進展呢？我知道中小企業受到的打擊最為嚴重，航空公司也是如此。如果我可以就 SMB 提出同樣的問題，也許您可以談談亞馬遜投資組合的損失以及我們應該如何看待這對 SMB 的影響。謝謝。

So, look, I think we're just planning for it to continue to be consistent as it is, and I don't know what gets it going. I'm not sure anybody really knows what gets it going. We live in uncertain times, but I think people are continuing to live their lives, and what we're seeing right now is very consistent spending.

所以，看，我認為我們只是計劃讓它繼續保持原樣，但我不知道是什麼讓它繼續下去。我不確定是否有人真正知道是什麼導致了它的發生。我們生活在一個不確定的時代，但我認為人們仍在繼續他們的生活，我們現在看到的是支出非常穩定。

You're seeing a little bit of a slowdown in airline, not necessarily front of the cabin, you're seeing a little bit of a slowdown in lodging, but again, not necessarily on the high transactions, which are up, but Goods and Services continue to be resilient and our Gen-Zs and our Millennials continue to be consistent.

您會看到航空業略有放緩，不一定是客艙前端，您會看到住宿業略有放緩，但同樣，不一定是交易量增加，而是商品和服務繼續保持彈性，我們的 Z 世代和千禧一代繼續保持一致。

And obviously, we've said all along, it really had nothing to do with the stock market when the stock market was all the way down. People continue to spend what they're spending now. The stock market is high. People are continuing to spend what they are now. So, we're just going to ride this out as it is, and I think it's going to continue to be very consistent.

顯然，我們一直說，當股市一路下跌時，這其實與股市沒有任何關係。人們繼續花他們現在的錢。股市高漲。人們的消費支出仍與現在持平。所以，我們只是要順應現狀，我認為它會繼續保持穩定。

And look, in terms of the Amazon portfolio and other portfolios that happened -- Amazon, and Lowe's as well. They're both good card accepting merchants and we're going to continue to do business with them, but sometimes things just don't work out economically, and I think one of the things that we've seen in this space, unlike in the T&E space, is you've seen portfolios move in retail.

看看亞馬遜的投資組合和其他投資組合——亞馬遜和勞氏也是如此。他們都是接受信用卡的優秀商家，我們將繼續與他們做生意，但有時事情在經濟上行不通，我認為我們在這個領域看到的一件事，與差旅和費用領域不同，你會看到零售業的投資組合在變動。

I mean, it's not an unusual thing to see portfolios move in retail. And for us it just, it really just wasn't working out and that's just the way it is. I don't think it really is going to have much of an impact from an SMB perspective for us, either one of those portfolios.

我的意思是，零售業的投資組合變動並不是什麼不尋常的事。但對我們來說，這確實行不通，事實就是這樣。我認為從中小企業的角度來看，這兩個投資組合都不會對我們造成太大影響。

I think from SMB, I think SMBs are a little bit more circumspect, I think, than the consumers are right now. And so, not buying maybe as much inventory and maybe not spending as much. And so, I think they're going to need probably a little bit more assurance from an economic perspective longer term for that to get going.

我認為從中小企業的角度來看，我認為中小企業現在比消費者更謹慎。因此，可能不會購買那麼多庫存，也可能不會花費那麼多。因此，我認為從長遠來看，他們可能需要更多的經濟保證才能實現這一目標。

But having said all that, I think from an SMB perspective while Billings are probably not where we want them to be, our revenue from this segment continues to be strong, our credit metrics continue to be strong, and our lending book is strong, and our fee-based business here is strong. So overall, we're happy with SMB. We'd like to see more Billings though.

但話雖如此，我認為從中小企業的角度來看，雖然比林斯可能沒有達到我們想要的水平，但我們從這一部門獲得的收入繼續保持強勁，我們的信貸指標繼續保持強勁，我們的貸款賬簿保持強勁，我們的收費業務也保持強勁。總的來說，我們對 SMB 感到滿意。不過，我們希望看到更多比林斯。

Hey, Sanjay. Just that one thing in terms of the Billing and the outlook. One of the things that provides support to our Billing growth is the strength of our new account origination. And you certainly saw that we added a little bit more disclosures and details on our new cards acquired -- and 3.1 million new cards this quarter and 1.5 million in the US Consumer.

嘿，桑傑。就帳單和前景而言，僅此一件事。支持我們帳單成長的因素之一是我們新帳戶發起的強勁勢頭。您當然也看到了，我們增加了有關新購卡的更多披露和詳細信息——本季度新購卡 310 萬張，其中美國消費者卡 150 萬張。

So, we see a lot of stability there and with the upcoming launch of the Platinum Card, that gives us confidence in our ability to originate new cards in the balance of year and that will certainly support the Billing growth.

因此，我們看到了很大的穩定性，隨著即將推出的白金卡，這使我們對在今年餘下時間發行新卡的能力充滿信心，這肯定會支持賬單增長。

Ryan Nash, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的瑞安·納許。

Good morning, everyone. So, Steve, you spent a decent amount of time talking about the refresh of the US Platinum that's coming in the fall. We obviously had a refresh from Chase, Citi is coming out with the new card, obviously, COF coming out after that part of the market.

大家早安。所以，史蒂夫，你花了相當多的時間談論秋季即將推出的美國白金更新。顯然，我們已經從大通銀行獲得了更新，花旗銀行也推出了新卡，顯然，COF 也在該市場之後推出。

Now I know that it's always competitive, but how do you think about the risk of too many players going after the same customer? Many of them are copying your value proposition and inevitably what do you think this means for pricing power over time? Thank you.

現在我知道競爭總是存在的，但您如何看待太多參與者爭奪同一個客戶的風險？他們中的許多人都在抄襲您的價值主張，您認為這對定價權意味著什麼？謝謝。

May the best company win. That's what I think. Look, I think that it really hasn't -- it's not all that different. I mean, remember Citi took a hiatus for a while. I mean, when you think about this space over the last 10 years, it's been extremely competitive. And you saw that Chase came out, it was like 10, 11 years ago, and since that time we've done three refreshes, and Citi was in the market and then they popped out, now, they're back in. And you have Capital One.

祝最好的公司獲勝。我就是這麼想的。瞧，我認為它確實沒有——它並沒有那麼不同。我的意思是，記得花旗銀行曾經暫停營業一段時間。我的意思是，當你回想過去 10 年這個領域時，你會發現它的競爭非常激烈。你看到大通銀行出現了，那是 10、11 年前的事了，從那時起我們已經進行了三次更新，花旗銀行也進入了市場，然後他們退出了，現在他們又回來了。而且您還有 Capital One。

But, I think what's happened is, this focus by the banks in general and us on this premium space has been good for customers. I think it's been good overall for the industry and if you look at the track record, it's been really good for us. I think since our last refresh, we've pretty much doubled our base.

但我認為，總體而言，銀行和我們對這高端領域的關注對客戶來說是有利的。我認為這對整個行業來說都是好事，如果你看看過去的記錄，你會發現這對我們來說真的很好。我認為自從我們上次更新以來，我們的基礎幾乎翻了一番。

I think what the industry has proven is that consumers will pay for value and as long as you're delivering value, I think you still have that pricing power. I mean, I think it's all about -- I think when you look at who we're all acquiring here, and we're acquiring lots of Gen-Zs and lots of Millennials with these cards, they're very value-conscious and they look at this and they basically say, look, for whatever the fee may be, I'm getting the value. And if they don't feel they're getting the value from the Platinum Card, they can look at the Gold Card and they get that.

我認為，業界已經證明，消費者會為價值付費，只要你提供價值，我認為你仍然擁有定價權。我的意思是，我認為這都是關於——我認為當你看看我們在這裡招募的都是哪些人時，我們用這些卡招募了很多 Z 世代和千禧一代，他們非常注重價值，他們看到這一點基本上會說，看，無論費用是多少，我都得到了價值。如果他們覺得白金卡沒有為他們帶來應有的價值，那麼他們可以考慮金卡。

So, I think it's good for the industry. I think pricing power is much more tied to the value that you provide, and I think as I said before, as long as we continue to do what we're doing, which is, I believe, offer the best product in the industry and leverage the assets that we do have, which some of them, I'm obviously not going to go through again, but I mentioned them in my opening remarks.

所以，我認為這對產業有利。我認為定價權與你提供的價值更加緊密地聯繫在一起，正如我之前所說，只要我們繼續做我們正在做的事情，我相信，我們提供業內最好的產品，並利用我們擁有的資產，其中一些我顯然不會再重複，但我在開場白中提到過它們。

I think we're going to continue to be in good shape. I think for anybody in this space, complacency is a death nail and you can't be complacent, which is why we're on a very regular cycle of refreshing these products and anybody that thinks that we're refreshing the product in response to what our competitors are doing is crazy. We have our own schedule, and I think we'll see what we see in the fall, but we feel really good about what we're going to launch on both products, Consumer and Small Business.

我認為我們將繼續保持良好狀態。我認為對於這個領域中的任何人來說，自滿都是致命的，你不能自滿，這就是為什麼我們要定期更新這些產品，任何人認為我們更新產品是為了應對競爭對手的做法都是瘋了。我們有自己的時間表，我想我們會在秋季看到結果，但我們對即將推出的消費者和小型企業產品感到非常滿意。

Mark DeVries, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬克‧德弗里斯。

Yeah. Thanks. I had a related question on the upcoming Platinum refresh. I know you're not going to preview it now, but I was just wondering if you could just comment qualitatively. Should we expect the same type of meaningful step up in added value relative to the fee that we've seen in past refreshes?

是的。謝謝。我對即將到來的白金更新有一個相關問題。我知道您現在不會預覽它，但我只是想知道您是否可以給出定性評論。我們是否應該期待與過去的更新中看到的費用相比，附加價值會出現同樣有意義的提升？

And then also, how do you just think about the risk that as you do that, you're asking more of the customer -- to both track what all those incremental sources of value and engage more deeply to justify the added step up in fee.

然後，您如何看待這樣做的風險，即您向客戶提出更多要求——既要追蹤所有這些增量價值來源，又要更深入地參與以證明增加費用的合理性。

Well, I'll tell you what, if you don't tell anybody, I'll give you a preview. Look, I think that -- yeah, look, I'm not going to get into ratios here, but what I would say is our strategy has always been -- if we do raise the fee, it has always been to add incrementally a lot more value in terms of -- so yeah, that's the same playbook.

好吧，我告訴你，如果你不告訴任何人，我會給你一個預覽。看，我認為——是的，看，我不想在這裡討論比例，但我想說的是，我們的策略一直是——如果我們確實提高費用，那麼它總是會逐步增加更多的價值——所以，是的，這是相同的劇本。

In terms of -- as you think about the consumer, years ago when we used to do these things, we used to try and figure out how the consumer couldn't use the products and services. But what we find is we make these things really easy for consumers to use now and we make it such that it's a wide range of value.

就消費者而言，幾年前，當我們做這些事情時，我們曾經試圖弄清楚消費者為何無法使用這些產品和服務。但我們發現，我們現在讓這些東西真的很容易被消費者使用，並且我們讓它們具有廣泛的價值。

And so, while not every consumer will use 100% of the value, getting back to your second point, we have enough disparity in the price and the value that you don't need to use all the value to get the value out of the product, and that's a lot of value words there.

因此，雖然並非每個消費者都會使用 100% 的價值，但回到你的第二點，我們在價格和價值方面存在足夠的差異，你不需要使用所有價值來從產品中獲取價值，這裡面有很多價值詞。

And that's what we'll continue to do, and I think that one of the things that we've done here is we really have expanded, over our last refresh, the set of services and benefits and premium partners that are in the product. And not every card member uses every benefit, but that's okay because it gives people the opportunity to pick and choose, but they do use enough of the services and the benefits that it more than outweighs whatever fee they're going to pay.

這就是我們將繼續做的事情，我認為我們在這裡所做的事情之一就是，在上次更新中，我們確實擴展了產品中的服務、福利和優質合作夥伴。並不是每個持卡人都會使用每項福利，但沒關係，因為它給了人們挑選的機會，但他們確實使用了足夠的服務和福利，以至於它的價值超過了他們要支付的任何費用。

And maybe just to build on how this is going to play out in the financials, the way to think about it, Mark, is that as we launch the new value proposition, you should expect to see a step up in the cost of card member services. And as you know, what we do is just like we wait until the renewal anniversary of the Card Member to increase -- to move the Card Member to the new price point, and then we amortize it over 12 months.

也許只是為了了解這將如何在財務上發揮作用，馬克，我們可以這樣想：當我們推出新的價值主張時，你應該會看到持卡會員服務成本的上升。如您所知，我們所做的就像等到持卡人的續約週年紀念日增加 - 將持卡人轉移到新的價格點，然後在 12 個月內攤銷。

So, the cost of card member services moves kind of like immediately and it takes like maximum two years for the card fee benefit to flow through the P&L, but all of that was like built in our guidance, in our planning and expectations since the very beginning.

因此，持卡會員服務的成本會立即發生變化，並且卡費收益最多需要兩年時間才能流入損益表，但所有這些都從一開始就建立在我們的指導、規劃和預期中。

Donald Fandetti, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的唐納德‧范德蒂 (Donald Fandetti)。

Yes. Steve, can you talk a little bit about International in terms of your acceptance, growth and how you're tracking versus your targets and maybe a bit on the competitive dynamics. I think you generally felt like it's less competitive internationally.

是的。史蒂夫，您能否談談國際方面的接受度、發展情況以及您如何追蹤目標，或許還可以談談競爭動態。我認為您總體上感覺國際競爭力較弱。

Well, I don't know about less competitive. I think International has its own set of challenges and own set of regulations. I think sometimes the regulations can make it maybe a little less interesting for certain players to get into the market. But overall, we feel really good about International.

嗯，我不知道競爭力是否下降。我認為國際有其自身的一系列挑戰和一套規則。我認為有時候這些規定可能會讓某些參與者進入市場的興趣降低一些。但總體而言，我們對國際市場感覺非常好。

I mean, look, it's been double-digit growth. I don't know how many -- it takes a couple of years after COVID, it's been double-digit growth since International really opened up again. And for us, we've been focusing on a small set of those. We talk about the five big markets that we focus on, and we've been doing really well there.

我的意思是，你看，它已經實現了兩位數的成長。我不知道有多少——在新冠疫情爆發後的幾年裡，自國際市場真正再次開放以來，一直保持著兩位數的成長。對我們來說，我們一直專注於其中的一小部分。我們談論了我們關注的五大市場，我們在這些市場表現非常好。

We talk about our city strategy and that's on track from a coverage perspective and we continue to add millions and millions of merchants internationally and we will continue to do that. So, I think our acceptance gets better day by day. And we feel good about the progress that we've made, and we'll talk about a lot of that, I think, when we have our next Investor Day, but International continues to make great strides.

我們討論了我們的城市策略，從覆蓋範圍的角度來看，該戰略正在按計劃進行，我們將繼續在國際上增加數以百萬計的商家，我們將繼續這樣做。所以，我認為我們的接受度會日益提高。我們對所取得的進展感到滿意，我想，當我們下次投資者日時，我們會談論很多這方面的進展，但國際業務仍在繼續取得長足的進步。

And I think it's ultimately a huge source of growth for us because when you look at the international markets, premium plays really well in a lot of cases, just about every market actually, our premium products are priced higher than they are in the US, and I think when you look at our share internationally, it's very, very low.

我認為這最終會成為我們巨大的成長源泉，因為當你看國際市場時，你會發現高端產品在許多情況下都表現良好，實際上幾乎在每個市場，我們的高端產品定價都高於美國市場，而當你看到我們在國際上的份額時，你會發現我們的份額非常非常低。

And the other part about it, when you look at Small Business, which I think there's a big opportunity for us in Small Business, it really is a market that's really nascent at this point. So, we're very excited about International and we're getting those growths with coverage that is still improving.

另一方面，當你看小企業時，我認為小企業對我們來說是一個巨大的機會，它確實是一個非常新興的市場。因此，我們對國際業務感到非常興奮，而且我們的成長和覆蓋範圍仍在不斷改善。

Erika Najarian, UBS.

瑞銀的 Erika Najarian。

Hi. Good morning. I thought I'd ask the question that I've been getting and it's almost that you’ve become a victim of your success a little bit. Given your premium valuation and your previous performance, it feels like there's a bearish case out there, building on the stock. Meaning like you've raised the bar on yourself. So, what's next? And I guess the question that I have here is, how do you address that? You talked a little bit, Steve, about the spend, a little bit of slowdown in airline spend, a little bit of slowdown in lodging.

你好。早安.我想問我一直在問的問題，你幾乎有點成為了成功的受害者。考慮到您的溢價估值和先前的表現，感覺存在看跌的情況，並且會加劇股價下跌。意思是你已經提高了自己的標準。那麼，下一步是什麼？我想我這裡的問題是，您如何解決這個問題？史蒂夫，你談到了支出問題，航空支出略有放緩，住宿支出略有放緩。

But obviously, you also have this Platinum refresh. So, as you think about maybe spend not accelerating, how does American Express continue to deliver this 8% to 10% revenue growth, continued consistency in Billed Businesses perhaps in an environment where the macro -- the underlying spend is not necessarily accelerating, and like Ryan said, all of a sudden, we have fierce competition, even fiercer competition among your peers for your natural client base.

但顯然，您也有這個白金更新。因此，當您考慮支出可能不會加速時，美國運通如何繼續實現 8% 到 10% 的收入增長，並在宏觀環境下保持賬單業務的一致性 - 基礎支出不一定會加速，就像 Ryan 所說的那樣，突然之間，我們面臨著激烈的競爭，同行之間爭奪自然客戶群的競爭更加激烈。

Well, I think, we've been getting this question for a number of years now, and we've been continuing to deliver against that. And again, I've been around this business a long, long time, and I'm not so sure it's much fiercer the competition than it was. I think, there may be a little bit more noise around it. People may talk about it, but when you're in the trenches, the competition is there.

嗯，我想，我們已經思考這個問題很多年了，我們一直在努力解決這個問題。再說一次，我在這個行業已經工作了很長時間，我不確定現在的競爭是否比以前更激烈。我認為，周圍可能會有更多的噪音。人們可能會談論它，但是當你身處戰壕時，競爭就在那裡。

And I think, look, for us, we continue to deliver the EPS we need to deliver, and we continue to deliver within that revenue range, and we're a hell of a lot bigger company than we were when we set these targets out. I mean, when you look at this, the numbers that we're putting up year-over-year continue to be, if I may say, quite impressive.

我認為，對我們來說，我們將繼續提供我們需要提供的每股收益，並且我們將繼續在該收入範圍內提供，而且我們的公司比我們設定這些目標時要大得多。我的意思是，當你看到這一點時，我們會發現我們逐年增加的數字，如果我可以這麼說的話，仍然相當令人印象深刻。

But I think for us it all starts with the customer, and I think what people lose sight of is customers are not widgets. Customers are people that you really need to focus on, what their true needs are. You need to provide phenomenal service, and you need to be there for them. And to us, customers -- we treat every customer as if it's the only customer we have.

但我認為對我們來說一切都始於客戶，而且我認為人們忽略的是客戶不是小部件。您真正需要關注的是客戶，了解他們的真正需求是什麼。您需要提供卓越的服務，並且需要為他們提供協助。對我們這些顧客來說——我們對待每一位顧客就像他們是我們的唯一的顧客一樣。

And if you ever call into our servicing center, there is quite a difference between how American Express treats their customers and how a lot of our competitors treat their customers. It is a huge difference. I think the other thing that I would say is when you think about what we're doing with this product refresh strategy, it's not just Platinum, we've refreshed hundreds of products over the course of the last few years, and we'll continue to refresh hundreds of products around the world.

如果您曾經致電我們的服務中心，您會發現美國運通對待客戶的方式與我們的許多競爭對手對待客戶的方式有很大不同。這是一個巨大的差異。我想說的另一件事是，當你思考我們正在實施的產品更新策略時，你會發現不僅僅是白金版，我們在過去幾年中更新了數百種產品，而且我們將繼續在全球範圍內更新數百種產品。

And so, look, the bearish case can continue to develop, but we will continue to do what we do best, which is focus on our customers, continue to create innovative products and services, and continue to make investments that are providing returns to our shareholders.

因此，看跌的情況可能會繼續發展，但我們將繼續做我們最擅長的事情，那就是專注於我們的客戶，繼續創造創新的產品和服務，並繼續進行為股東帶來回報的投資。

So, look, I mean, as I said, I've been around a long time. I think the competitive environment to me hasn't been all that much different than it's been for the last 10 years. I think there's probably a lot more press about it, but we feel it every single day and I think it makes us a lot better.

所以，看，我的意思是，正如我所說的，我已經存在很久了。我認為對我來說競爭環境與過去 10 年相比並沒有太大不同。我認為有關此事的報導可能更多，但我們每天都能感受到它，我認為這讓我們變得更好。

Rick Shane, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的里克·沙恩。

Thanks for taking my questions this morning. I just want to follow up on Christophe's point about the timing of revenues and expenses associated with the refresh. The revenue explanation was very helpful. Can you talk about the timing of expenses associated with it? Have you pulled some of that forward in anticipation or should we see a step function over the next year or two consistent with what you're describing on the revenue side?

感謝您今天上午回答我的問題。我只是想跟進克里斯托夫關於與更新相關的收入和支出時間的觀點。收入解釋非常有幫助。您能談談與之相關的費用的時間嗎？您是否已經提前預見了這一點，或者我們是否應該看到未來一兩年內與您在收入方面所描述的情況一致的階躍函數？

So, we haven't pulled anything - from the very beginning, this was our plan and we planned accordingly and guided accordingly. So, maybe let me like reiterate what I just said previously, right? So, what you should expect is an increase in our cost of card member services after the launch of the Platinum Card. So most likely, say in Q4. And the card fee increases will take a little bit more time to filter through the P&L. And all in all, this will be value accretive for us and for our shareholders.

所以，我們沒有撤回任何東西——從一開始，這就是我們的計劃，我們進行了相應的計劃並進行了相應的指導。那麼，也許讓我重申一下我剛才說過的話，對嗎？所以，白金卡推出後，我們的會員服務成本應該會增加。最有可能是在第四季。而卡費的增加將需要更多的時間才能在損益表中反映出來。總而言之，這將為我們和我們的股東帶來價值增值。

Yeah. I mean, just to say it really simplistically, the expenses come before the revenues here, right? Because what happens is once we relaunch, the Card Members have the ability to take advantage of those benefits on day one. They don't get billed if there's an increase in the fee until they come up to their cycle.

是的。我的意思是，簡單地說，這裡的支出先於收入，對嗎？因為一旦我們重新推出，持卡會員就可以在第一天享受這些優惠。如果費用增加，他們就不會被收費，直到他們達到他們的週期。

And those fees are recognized over a 12-month period. They're not recognized in the month that you get billed, but yet the benefits -- and that's a huge benefit to our cardholders, and it's something that we plan for and it's something that we've always done.

這些費用在 12 個月內確認。這些優惠不會在您收到帳單的月份被確認，但卻是有益的——這對我們的持卡人來說是一個巨大的好處，這是我們計劃中的事情，也是我們一直在做的事情。

Jeff Adelson, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的傑夫·阿德爾森。

Hey, good morning, Steve and Christophe. Just wanted to focus on the airline lounges. Obviously, that's a really important part of the Amex offering, but I guess longer term as you continue to put up this really robust growth in Card Members, how do you navigate some of the concerns about lounge access and overcrowding? Is that something you'll maybe to look to address in the next round of refresh?

嘿，早上好，史蒂夫和克里斯托夫。只是想關注航空休息室。顯然，這是美國運通服務中非常重要的一部分，但我想，從長遠來看，隨著你們的持卡會員數量繼續保持強勁增長，你們將如何解決休息室使用和過度擁擠等問題？您是否會在下一輪更新中考慮解決這個問題？

And we've continued seemingly to see a step up in competition from the likes of Chase and Capital One with their own build out, and I think there's been more of a focus from the airlines lately to build their own offering or enhance their own offering. So, I guess how do you think about navigating that competition longer term and just maybe addressing the concern of overcrowding? Thanks.

我們似乎繼續看到大通和 Capital One 等公司透過自己的擴張加劇了競爭，我認為航空公司最近更加重視打造自己的產品或增強自己的產品。那麼，您如何看待長期應對這種競爭，以及如何解決過度擁擠的問題？謝謝。

Yeah. I think, look, what we try to do is a couple of things. Number one, we've tried -- like a lot of the airlines have done and a lot of the other cards have done. We did this probably before people did it, but provide some priority. The other thing is we're trying to make the lounges bigger. I think this whole lounge game has been a boom for airport authorities in terms of how many lounges they can put in.

是的。我認為，我們嘗試做幾件事。首先，我們已經嘗試過了——就像許多航空公司和許多其他信用卡公司所做的那樣。我們可能在其他人之前就這麼做了，但提供了一些優先權。另一件事是我們正在嘗試擴大休息室。我認為，就他們可以設立多少個休息室而言，整個休息室遊戲對機場管理部門來說是一個繁榮的現象。

And the other thing we get innovative. Look, in Vegas, we just did what we call Sidecar, which is a more of a small kind of, I don't know, maybe call it a speakeasy lounge where if you just want to go in for a quick drink or grab something quickly, you can do that.

另一件事是我們進行了創新。你看，在拉斯維加斯，我們剛剛做了所謂的 Sidecar，這是一種比較小的，我不知道，也許可以稱之為地下酒吧，如果你只是想進去喝一杯或者快速吃點東西，你可以這樣做。

And I think we work really closely with our partner Delta in those airports where we have -- either we don't have a lounge or we do have lounges together to try and move traffic around a little bit, but I think you'll continue to see more innovation here. You'll look at more expansion of existing lounges where we can get space, and you'll look at a strategy that looks at satellite locations, so that we can handle the demand that we get.

我認為我們與我們的合作夥伴達美航空在那些我們擁有休息室的機場進行了非常密切的合作——要么我們沒有休息室，要么我們共同擁有休息室，以嘗試稍微疏導一下客流量，但我認為你會繼續在這裡看到更多的創新。您將會看到我們可以擴大現有休息室的空間，並且您將看到一個關注衛星位置的策略，這樣我們就可以滿足我們所得到的需求。

Brian Foran, Truist Securities.

布萊恩·福蘭（Brian Foran），Truist Securities。

Hey. Good morning, guys. So, I want to ask about one other pushback I keep getting on the stock lately, and before I do, these slides you're adding, like slide 12 and 9, I think 16, addressing the investor issues head on and getting that next level of detail, I really appreciate it. They're great. So, I want to give that context to that I think you guys have been really open and kind of sharing your thought process on these key pushbacks.

嘿。大家早安。所以，我想問一下最近我在股票方面遇到的另一個阻力，在此之前，您添加的這些幻燈片，例如幻燈片 12 和 9，我想是 16，正面解決了投資者問題，並獲得了更高層次的細節，我真的很感激。他們很棒。所以，我想說明這個背景，我認為你們一直都很開放，並且分享了你們對這些關鍵阻力的思考過程。

So, the other one I get is if you do this walk, spend volumes plus 7%, but then discount is a little lower plus 5%, and then if you back out rewards to do discount -- with rewards as a contrast, it's like plus 1% to 2%, and then some people are even backing out new account contribution and saying like, well, discount net of rewards, net of new accounts is actually slight negative.

因此，我得到的另一個答案是，如果你這樣做，消費量會增加 7%，但折扣會低一點，增加 5%，然後如果你放棄獎勵來做折扣——相比之下，獎勵會增加 1% 到 2%，然後有些人甚至會放棄新帳戶貢獻，並說，好吧，扣除獎勵後的折扣，實際上扣除新賬戶後的折扣實際上是略微負面的。

And I know that's like net of eight things and your actual revenue is growing. But maybe you could just speak to any part of that dynamic for investors who are focused on the discount revenue being a little lower, the discount revenue net of rewards being a little lower still, how would you think about that? Is that a valid concern or is that a wrong path to go down?

我知道這就像八項淨額一樣，你的實際收入正在成長。但是，也許您可以談談這種動態的任何部分，對於那些關注折扣收入稍低、折扣收入扣除獎勵後仍然較低的投資者來說，您對此有何看法？這是一個合理的擔憂嗎？或者這是一條錯誤的道路？

Well, Christophe will answer, but the one thing I would say is thinking about only one component of revenue associated with rewards is not really how we think about it. We think about overall revenue associated with it, but I’ll let Christophe sort of go.

好吧，克里斯托夫會回答，但我想說的是，只考慮與獎勵相關的收入的一個組成部分並不是我們真正考慮的方式。我們考慮與之相關的整體收入，但我會讓克里斯托夫離開。

Hey, Brian. So, the way we think about this and this type of decision and relationships between the expenses and the revenue, and we've been very transparent on it, probably more so than many competitors, is the VCE ratio to revenue, variable customer engagement expenses as a ratio to revenue, and we've provided a lot of details and transparency on the makeup of this VCE ratio, and that has been like pretty stable over the years.

嘿，布萊恩。因此，我們思考這個問題的方式以及這類決策和費用與收入之間的關係，我們對此非常透明，可能比許多競爭對手都更加透明，即 VCE 與收入的比率，可變客戶參與費用與收入的比率，並且我們已經提供了有關此 VCE 比率構成的大量細節和透明度，而且多年來一直相當穩定。

And as we've said, this is not an objective function for us, this is an outcome. We make decisions product by product by product and here's what you should not do. You should not equate a low VCE ratio to something positive because the higher VCE ratios that we have are on our more premium, more attractive, more value accretive products because we get a lot of that investment back in the form of efficiencies on the marketing line in the form, importantly, of credit and positive selection on the credit line. So, the overall balance to your point is a complicated one.

正如我們所說，這對我們來說不是一個目標函數，而是一個結果。我們針對每個產品做出決策，以下是您不應該做的事情。你不應該將較低的 VCE 比率等同於積極的因素，因為我們擁有的較高 VCE 比率來自於我們更優質、更有吸引力、更具增值價值的產品，因為我們以營銷線效率的形式獲得了大量投資回報，更重要的是，以信貸和信貸額度上的積極選擇的形式。因此，對於你的觀點來說，整體平衡是一個複雜的問題。

We think we're really good at managing that balance and finding the optimum point to generate value, to generate growth, and sustainable value for our shareholders. So, I don't quite follow your math, but I think we've got a good control over that expense to revenue ratio component.

我們認為我們非常擅長管理這種平衡，並找到為股東創造價值、實現成長和永續價值的最佳點。所以，我不太明白你的計算，但我認為我們對費用與收入比率部分進行了很好的控制。

We are managing it thoughtfully and every time there's a product refreshed, that's where we spend a lot of our time in finance to find the right balance. So, I think you shouldn't worry too much about where this is going and where it's trending, we feel that we're in a good place there.

我們正在認真管理它，每當有產品更新時，我們都會花費大量時間在財務上尋找正確的平衡。所以，我認為你不應該太擔心事情會如何發展以及趨勢如何，我們覺得我們處於一個很好的位置。

Moshe Orenbuch, TD Cowen.

Moshe Orenbuch，TD Cowen。

Great. Thanks, and apologies for going back to the competition kind of issue, but if you put together, the questions from a couple of people and Steve your answers to them. I guess what strikes me is that this may be the first time that you're doing this US Platinum refresh kind of into the teeth of a competitive environment, and you've got crosscurrents. Obviously, you have in the past benefited from some of the advertising and marketing of your competitors and at the same time there is this idea of competing for a limited number of people. So, is there a way to just talk about how you think it's going to play out this time versus others, in terms of what you are expecting? Any things that you're thinking about that would differentiate your set of product refreshes from what you've seen from those competitors. Thanks.

偉大的。謝謝，很抱歉又回到競爭問題上，但是如果你把幾個人提出的問題和史蒂夫的問題放在一起，你就可以得到他們的答案。我想讓我印象深刻的是，這可能是你第一次在激烈的競爭環境中進行美國白金更新，你遇到了逆流。顯然，您過去曾從競爭對手的一些廣告和行銷中受益，同時也有爭奪有限數量客戶的想法。那麼，就您的預期而言，您能否談談您認為這次與以往相比結果會如何？您所考慮的任何因素都會使您的產品更新與您從競爭對手那裡看到的產品更新有所區別。謝謝。

Well, I would disagree with the characterization that it's the first time we're playing into the teeth of it. Actually, we did the first Platinum refresh -- well, one of the Platinum refreshes we did 10 years ago, Chase had just launched Sapphire with a huge, huge bang. I mean, the amount of money and the amount of press that they got with that and with the intensity they went after our book, we played right into it. And the second one we were around the same time.

好吧，我不同意這是我們第一次陷入困境的說法。實際上，我們進行了第一次白金卡更新——好吧，這是我們 10 年前進行的白金卡更新之一，當時大通剛剛推出了藍寶石卡，引起了巨大的轟動。我的意思是，他們為此投入了巨額資金和大量媒體關注，並且對我們書籍的熱情也讓我們受益匪淺。第二次我們也差不多在同一時間。

So, I don't think it's that much different. And really if you think about it right now, Citi hasn't said when, and they're coming off of not really having a product and Chase is refreshing their products. So, actually, if I look at it, it's probably less intense this time than it was 10 years ago because I think there was so much hype around Chase coming out with this new card versus this just being an upgrade. That's just my opinion.

所以，我認為並沒有太大的不同。如果你現在認真想想，花旗銀行還沒有透露具體時間，他們還沒有真正的產品，而大通銀行正在更新他們的產品。因此，實際上，如果我看一下，這次的激烈程度可能不如 10 年前那麼高，因為我認為當時大通推出這款新卡時引起了太多炒作，而這款卡僅僅是一次升級。這只是我的看法。

Having said that, I'll just go back to what I said. I think we've learned a lot and we believe that what we're going to come out with will be more than hold its own, be very, very competitive, and we'll continue to be innovative and we're just going to have to wait and see, and you guys are going to have to wait and see because I can't really go into more detail than that. Contrasting the two, all I can do is basically say every time we've done this, it's worked out pretty well for us. And I think it's worked out pretty well for consumers and it's worked out well for the industry, but the characterization of this is different, I don't think that's the case at all.

話雖如此，我還是回到剛才說的話上。我認為我們已經學到了很多，我們相信，我們將要推出的產品將不僅僅是保持原有的競爭力，而且我們將繼續創新，我們只需要拭目以待，你們也需要拭目以待，因為我不能透露更多細節。對比這兩者，我基本上只能說，每次我們這樣做，結果都非常好。我認為這對消費者和行業來說都很好，但其特徵卻不同，我認為根本不是這樣。

Mihir Bhatia, Bank of America.

米希爾·巴蒂亞，美國銀行。

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. So, it is another question on this competition and premium card space. But really what I would like to focus maybe a little bit on is you've talked about how the customer value propositions have changed and evolved. But how has this impacted the acquisition strategies? Is it becoming more expensive to attract these fee-paying customers? Is the acquisition mix changing?

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。因此，這是關於這次比賽和高級卡空間的另一個問題。但我真正想重點關注的是您所談論的客戶價值主張是如何變化和發展的。但這如何影響收購策略？吸引這些付費客戶的成本是否變得越來越高？收購組合是否正在改變？

And really putting it all together at the end of the day, are returns in the premium card space stable? Increasing? Decreasing? Because like yes, value propositions are increasing, but fees are increasing, usage is increasing. So, I'm just trying to get a sense of that. Thank you.

最終，綜合考慮所有這些因素，高級卡領域的回報是否穩定？增加？減少？因為是的，價值主張在增加，但費用在增加，使用量也在增加。所以，我只是想了解這一點。謝謝。

So, I can help you a little bit with that. The way this competition is materializing is that it's expanding the demand for premium products. So, it's definitely giving us the opportunity to deploy more marketing dollars at very, very attractive returns. That's the way it's materializing because there are a lot more considerations now among the prospect population for premium products than there was 10 years ago, where we were the only player in that space.

所以，我可以在這方面給你一點幫助。這種競爭的實現方式是擴大對優質產品的需求。因此，這無疑為我們提供了機會，以非常非常誘人的回報投入更多的行銷資金。它之所以能實現，是因為現在潛在客戶對高端產品的考慮比十年前多得多，而當時我們是該領域唯一的參與者。

And every time Card Members look at or consider, you know, a Platinum Card -- or premium Card, they consider the Platinum card. It's almost inevitable. And so, that opens up an opportunity for us to put an offer in front of them. So, the biggest benefit for us here -- like it's really hard to compare the ROI 10 years ago to the ROI today, but the level of marketing dollars, the quantity of marketing dollars we're deploying today is much bigger than what we were doing, say, 10 years ago. And I attribute a lot of that to activity in the marketplace, a lot more competition.

每當持卡人查看或考慮白金卡或高級卡時，他們都會考慮白金卡。這幾乎是不可避免的。因此，這為我們向他們提出報價提供了機會。因此，對我們來說最大的好處是——雖然很難將 10 年前的投資回報率與今天的投資回報率進行比較，但我們今天投入的營銷資金水平和數量比 10 年前要大得多。我認為這很大程度上是由於市場活動活躍，競爭更加激烈。

Terry Ma, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的馬特里 (Terry Ma)。

Hi. Thank you. Good morning. I just wanted to ask about net card fee growth. It continues to be strong, coming in at 20% year-over-year this quarter. As we think about the go forward, should the Platinum refresh be kind of additive to that growth or just kind of sustain it as you lap some of the refreshes from last year. Thank you.

你好。謝謝。早安.我只是想問一下淨卡費用成長的情況。它繼續保持強勁勢頭，本季同比增長 20%。當我們考慮未來發展時，白金版的更新是否應該對這種成長有所促進，還是僅僅像去年的一些更新那樣維持這種成長。謝謝。

Yeah. So, it's a complicated dynamic, Terry. But you might remember at the beginning of the year, we said that you should expect the card fee growth rate to like moderate in the balance of the year. We still believe that's going to happen. So, you should expect to see that in Q3 and Q4.

是的。所以，這是一個複雜的動態，特里。但您可能還記得，在年初，我們說過，您應該預期卡費成長率將在今年餘下時間保持溫和。我們仍然相信這會發生。所以，你應該會在第三季和第四季看到這一點。

And given the previous conversations that we had about the timing of the platinum fee increase, it's only some time in the new year, in 2026, that you should see that inflection point and a bit more acceleration. But you should still expect some moderation in the back of this year in terms of that card fee growth rates.

考慮到我們之前關於白金費用上漲時間的討論，只有在新年的某個時候，也就是 2026 年，你才會看到這個拐點和更多的加速。但就卡費成長率而言，今年後期仍應出現一定放緩。

Craig Maurer, FT Partners.

克雷格·莫雷爾（Craig Maurer），FT Partners。

Yeah. Hi. Thanks. I wanted to -- competition aside and Amex’s right to win aside, I wanted to ask about how perhaps the mix of new acquisition is changing. And the reason why I'm asking is does the slowdown in travel spend put at risk the fantastic new acquisition channels you have with your co-brand partners like Marriott and Delta? Do we have to think about that at all when it comes to net new card growth?

是的。你好。謝謝。我想——拋開競爭和美國運通的獲勝權利，我想問一下新收購的組合可能發生了怎樣的變化。我之所以問這個問題，是因為旅遊支出的放緩是否會對您與萬豪和達美等聯合品牌合作夥伴建立的優質新收購管道造成風險？當談到淨新卡成長時，我們是否必須考慮這一點？

And just secondly, just quickly on the EPS guide. You had nice outperformance in EPS. But am I just reading it correctly that the projected increase in VCE spend as a percentage of revenue in the back half of the year, which seems to be related at least in part to the Platinum refresh is what's keeping you from raising the range? Thanks.

其次，讓我們來快速介紹一下 EPS 指南。您的 EPS 表現非常出色。但是，我理解的是否正確？預計下半年 VCE 支出將佔收入的百分比增加，這似乎至少在某種程度上與 Platinum 更新有關，這也是阻止你們提高價格範圍的原因嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Craig. On the acquisition mix, there's not been like a big change in terms of our mix over the past few quarters and like almost I should say, over the past few years, right? And one way we're trying to characterize it for you is just by calling out the percentage of these new cards that are coming on a fee-paying product and has been in that 70% range for with few quarters now. And I don't really expect to see a change there.

你好，克雷格。在收購組合方面，過去幾個季度，甚至應該說過去幾年，我們的組合併沒有發生很大的變化，對吧？我們試圖向您描述這種情況的一種方法是指出這些新卡中付費產品的百分比，目前幾個季度以來，這一比例一直保持在 70% 左右。我真的不期望看到那裡發生改變。

To your second question about the earnings per share and the VCE in the balance of the year. So, listen, we're not giving guidance specifically let alone quarter-by-quarter on the VCE ratio. There's like so many moving parts here, and we're also lapping some product refreshes from the past.

關於您關於每股收益和年度餘額中的 VCE 的第二個問題。所以，聽著，我們不會給出具體的指導，更不用說逐季度提供 VCE 比率的指導了。這裡有許多活動部件，而且我們也在對過去的一些產品進行更新。

So, the way I think about that VCE ratio over time, it's not new. It's just you should expect that VCE ratio to slightly tick up over time as more and more -- as the mix, not only in terms of acquisition, but in terms of engagement of the portfolio is trending a lot more towards premium product and fee-paying product. So, that's going to put a little bit of upward pressure on the VCE ratio. But that's as far as we would go in terms of commenting on where this is going to go in the balance of the year.

所以，我對 VCE 比率隨時間變化的看法並不新鮮。只是您應該預料到，隨著組合越來越趨向高端產品和付費產品，VCE 比率會隨著時間的推移而略微上升。不僅在收購方面，而且在投資組合的參與度方面，也越來越趨向高端產品和付費產品。因此，這將對 VCE 比率產生一點上行壓力。但對於今年餘下時間的進展，我們只能評論到此為止。

Cris Kennedy, William Blair.

克里斯甘迺迪，威廉布萊爾。

Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Just wanted to change the topic a little bit. You have the announcement with Coinbase and Amex Ventures, there's a lot of investing in the space. Can you just give your latest views on stablecoin and implementing blockchain technology into your tech stack?

早安.感謝您回答這個問題。只是想稍微改變一下話題。Coinbase 和 Amex Ventures 已經宣布將在該領域進行大量投資。您能否談談對穩定幣以及將區塊鏈技術應用到您的技術堆疊中的最新看法？

Yeah. Well, let me just talk about sort of stablecoin. I think it's been a lot of conversation around stablecoin and cryptocurrencies and what have you. And I think when you start to look at digital currencies, we've got the crypto currencies, XRP, Bitcoin, Ethereum and things like that. I think that has sort of proven out that is not really going to take the place of any fiat currency.

是的。好吧，讓我來談談穩定幣。我認為關於穩定幣和加密貨幣等主題已經有很多討論。我認為，當你開始關注數位貨幣時，我們就會有加密貨幣、XRP、比特幣、以太幣等等。我認為這已經證明它不會真正取代任何法定貨幣。

It's more of a sort of an investment vehicle at this point. And I think as we've said for a long time now that when you think about digital currencies, you need to think about the stablecoins, and you need to think about government digital currencies. And it looks like now, while there hasn't really been a lot of progress on government digital currencies, there has been a lot of activity, at least a lot of noise, around stablecoins.

目前，它更像是一種投資工具。我認為，正如我們長期以來所說的那樣，當你考慮數位貨幣時，你需要考慮穩定幣，你需要考慮政府數位貨幣。現在看來，雖然政府數位貨幣方面還沒有太大進展，但穩定幣方面已經有很多活動，至少有很多喧囂。

And I think there is a role in the payment systems for stablecoins. There is a role in the value system for cryptocurrencies. And I think when you look at what we did with Coinbase as we see stablecoins, stablecoins, we believe, will be used for lots of cross-border transactions, small businesses, things like that.

我認為穩定幣在支付系統中發揮作用。在加密貨幣的價值體系中發揮作用。我認為，當你看到我們對 Coinbase 所做的事情時，我們就會看到穩定幣，我們相信穩定幣將用於大量跨境交易、小型企業等。

But remember, with stablecoins you are trapping that liquidity and you do need off-ramps. And I think the partnership that we have with Coinbase does two things. Number one, it does provide that off-ramp. But number two, what they've decided to do from a rewards perspective is to allow you to earn digital currency. And obviously, they're one of the largest keepers of digital currencies.

但請記住，使用穩定幣，你就捕獲了流動性，並且你確實需要出口。我認為我們與 Coinbase 的合作有兩個作用。首先，它確實提供了出口。但第二點，從獎勵的角度來看，他們決定讓你賺取數位貨幣。顯然，他們是最大的數位貨幣持有者之一。

And so, I think that's a really interesting thing. As we think about stablecoins a little bit into the future here, you could see this as a way for SMBs, large corporations to do cross-border transactions, especially when you are doing lots of cross-border transactions with the same group of people. You avoid all the currency conversion -- makes it a lot easier to do business, I think, potentially cross-border, that's not a big sort of revenue driver for us, foreign currency exchange and currency revenue for us.

所以，我認為這是一件非常有趣的事情。當我們在這裡思考穩定幣的未來時，你可以將其視為中小企業、大公司進行跨國交易的一種方式，特別是當你與同一群人進行大量跨國交易時。你可以避免所有的貨幣兌換——這使得做生意變得容易得多，我認為，潛在的跨境，這對我們來說不是一個很大的收入驅動因素，外匯兌換和貨幣收入對我們來說。

But it is an opportunity, and it's one that we are seriously looking at and potentially to figure out how we think about either partnering or how we think about our own foray into stablecoins, especially for small businesses where we do have a large share. So, I think there's a lot more to come here. I think the bill will be signed today in terms of overall regulation, and there's more to play out.

但這是一個機會，我們正在認真考慮，並有可能弄清楚我們如何考慮合作，或者如何考慮我們自己進入穩定幣領域，特別是對於我們確實佔有很大份額的小型企業而言。所以，我認為這裡還有很多事情要做。我認為從整體監管角度來看，該法案將於今天簽署，之後將有更多內容需要落實。

But I think what you will see is companies like American Express, Visa and Mastercard being off-ramps for digital currencies. And I think that's an important part that we play. Will they replace the existing payment rails? No, they are not going to replace the existing payer rails.

但我認為你會看到像美國運通、Visa 和萬事達這樣的公司正在為數位貨幣提供出口。我認為這是我們扮演的重要角色。它們會取代現有的付款方式嗎？不，他們不會取代現有的付費鐵路。

Are they a good proxy and a good change and a good alternative to ACH and Swift payments and wires and things like that, I think so. And the reason I don't believe they're going to replace what we have today is what we have today is not broken. It provides lots of other benefits such as rewards. It provides contingent liability in terms of lending, and it also provides lots of dispute resolution, and things like that, and tremendous acceptance.

它們是 ACH 和 Swift 支付、電匯等的良好代理、良好變革和良好替代品嗎？我認為是的。我不相信他們會取代我們今天所擁有的東西，因為我們今天所擁有的東西並沒有損壞。它還提供許多其他好處，例如獎勵。它在貸款方面提供或有責任，也提供大量爭議解決等服務，並獲得廣泛認可。

And it's just easy to use. So, that's probably all I have to say on that, but it is something that we are working with, and we'll continue to monitor and just figure out what's the right entry point for us. But we felt -- and we're very happy about our partnership with Coinbase and I think we're going to be able to do some good things with them.

而且使用起來非常簡單。所以，這可能是我要說的全部內容，但這是我們正在努力的事情，我們將繼續監控並找出適合我們的正確切入點。但我們感覺——我們對與 Coinbase 的合作感到非常高興，我認為我們將能夠與他們一起做一些好事。

With that, we will bring the call to an end. Thank you again for joining today's call and for your continued interest in American Express. The IR team will be available for any follow-up questions.

至此，我們的通話就結束了。再次感謝您參加今天的電話會議以及您對美國運通的持續關注。IR 團隊將隨時解答任何後續問題。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. The webcast replay will be available on our Investor Relations website at ir.americanexpress.com shortly after the call. You can also access a digital replay of the call at 877-660-6853 or 201-612-7415. Access code 13754529 after 1:00 PM Eastern Time on July 18 through July 25.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。電話會議結束後不久，網路直播重播將在我們的投資者關係網站 ir.americanexpress.com 上提供。您也可以撥打 877-660-6853 或 201-612-7415 收聽此通話的數位重播。東部時間 7 月 18 日至 7 月 25 日下午 1:00 點後，訪問代碼為 13754529。