艾利丹尼森 (AVY) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. (Operator Instructions) Welcome to Avery Dennison's earnings conference call for the third quarter ended on September 30, 2023. This call is being recorded and will be available for replay from 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time today through midnight Eastern Time, October 31. To access the replay, please dial (800) 633-8284 or +1 (402) 977-9140 for international callers. The conference ID number is 22020693.

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。 （操作員說明）歡迎參加艾利丹尼森於 2023 年 9 月 30 日結束的第三季度收益電話會議。本次電話會議正在錄音，將於下午 5:00 起重播。東部時間今天至東部時間 10 月 31 日午夜。要觀看重播，請撥打 (800) 633-8284 或 +1 (402) 977-9140（國際電話）。會議ID號碼為22020693。

I would now like to turn the conference over to John Eble, Avery Dennison's Vice President of Finance and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

我現在想將會議轉交給艾利丹尼森財務和投資者關係副總裁約翰·埃布爾 (John Eble)。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, Carlos. Please note that throughout today's discussion, we'll be making references to non-GAAP financial measures. The non-GAAP measures that we use are defined, qualified and reconciled from GAAP on schedules A-4 to A-9 of the financial statements accompanying today's earnings release. We remind you that we'll make certain predictive statements that reflect our current views and estimates about our future performance and financial results. These forward-looking statements are made subject to the safe harbor statement included in today's earnings release.

謝謝你，卡洛斯。請注意，在今天的討論中，我們將提及非公認會計準則財務指標。我們使用的非 GAAP 衡量標準是根據 GAAP 定義、限定和調整的，請參閱今天收益發布所附財務報表附表 A-4 至 A-9。我們提醒您，我們將做出某些預測性陳述，以反映我們對未來業績和財務表現的當前看法和估計。這些前瞻性陳述是根據今天的收益發布中包含的安全港聲明做出的。

On the call today are Deon Stander, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Greg Lovins, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.

今天參加電話會議的是總裁兼執行長 Deon Stander；資深副總裁兼財務長 Greg Lovins。

I'll now turn the call over to Deon.

我現在將把電話轉給 Deon。

Thanks, John and hello, everyone. In the third quarter, we delivered earnings in line with our expectations, grew volume and margins in both segments sequentially, generating strong free cash flow and delivered significant Intelligent Labels growth in new categories, such as logistics and food. While earnings were in line with our expectations for the quarter, volume was lower than anticipated on broader macro uncertainty and slower consumption, which the team was able to offset through productivity and cost reduction actions.

謝謝約翰，大家好。第三季度，我們的獲利符合預期，兩個細分市場的銷售和利潤均連續成長，產生了強勁的自由現金流，並在物流和食品等新類別中實現了智慧標籤的顯著成長。雖然獲利符合我們對本季度的預期，但由於宏觀不確定性更廣泛和消費放緩，成交量低於預期，該團隊能夠透過提高生產力和降低成本的行動來抵消這一影響。

As I mentioned last quarter, we have activated countermeasures to minimize the impact on our bottom line. We have implemented temporary cost reduction actions, ramped up our restructuring initiatives and paid back capital investments in our base businesses, while protecting investments in our high-growth platforms, particularly Intelligent Labels.

正如我上季度提到的，我們已經採取了對策，盡量減少對我們利潤的影響。我們實施了臨時成本削減行動，加大了重組力度，償還了基礎業務的資本投資，同時保護了對高成長平台（尤其是智慧標籤）的投資。

Now a quick update on the quarter by business. Materials Group delivered strong margins and volume improved sequentially as inventory destocking continues to moderate. Volume was down compared to prior year, as customers were still building inventory in the third quarter last year and have been reducing it this year.

現在按業務快速更新該季度的情況。隨著庫存去庫存持續放緩，材料集團實現了強勁的利潤率和銷售量環比改善。與去年相比，銷量有所下降，因為客戶在去年第三季度仍在建立庫存，並且今年一直在減少庫存。

As you can see on Slide 6, volume in North America and Europe continue to improve at a steady pace in the third quarter. Latest indications suggest that our customers' inventory destocking is largely complete in Europe and will be largely complete in North America by year-end. Demand in these regions has been softer than anticipated on broader macro uncertainty and slow consumption, particularly in Europe. As destocking continues to moderate, we expect volume will again improve sequentially in the fourth quarter, a trend we have seen through the first 3 weeks of October.

正如您在幻燈片 6 中看到的那樣，第三季度北美和歐洲的銷量繼續穩步增長。最新跡象表明，歐洲客戶的庫存去庫存已基本完成，北美的庫存去庫存也將在年底前基本完成。由於更廣泛的宏觀不確定性和消費放緩，這些地區的需求比預期疲軟，尤其是在歐洲。隨著去庫存繼續放緩，我們預計第四季度成交量將再次環比改善，這是我們在 10 月前三週看到的趨勢。

Overall, emerging market label demand was solid in the quarter, up high single digits sequentially, with particular strength in Asia. Materials margin was strong expanding year-on-year and sequentially, as volumes improved and structural and temporary cost saving actions were implemented.

整體而言，本季新興市場標籤需求強勁，季增高個位數，其中亞洲尤其強勁。隨著產量的增加以及結構性和臨時成本節約行動的實施，材料利潤率較去年同期強勁成長。

Solutions Group sales were up mid-single digits in the quarter. Sequentially, volume in Apparel Solutions and Intelligent Labels improved and adjusted EBITDA margin improved 60 basis points. We expect to drive further margin improvement in the fourth quarter as volume increases.

該季度解決方案集團的銷售額成長了中個位數。隨後，服裝解決方案和智慧標籤的銷售量有所改善，調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率提高了 60 個基點。我們預計，隨著銷量的增加，第四季的利潤率將進一步提高。

Apparel imports continue to be down compared to prior year and 2019, which can be seen on Slide 6. Following a mixed back-to-school season, retailers and brands continue to factor muted sentiment into their near-term sourcing plans. Intelligent Labels in non-apparel categories, particularly logistics and food, continues to ramp significantly and we're up roughly 75% in the quarter. Our execution of these key rollouts in new categories is delivering significant value for our customers and compelling proof points for broader segment adoption. This growth was partially offset by a decline in apparel, resulting in roughly 10% growth for overall Intelligent Labels in the quarter. We expect non-apparel Intelligent Labels growth to further accelerate in the fourth quarter, along with sequential improvement in apparel, enabling us to achieve low to mid-teens growth for the platform overall in 2023, lower than previously anticipated due to the continued soft apparel market.

與前一年和 2019 年相比，服裝進口繼續下降，這可以從幻燈片 6 中看出。在經歷了喜憂參半的返校季之後，零售商和品牌繼續將低迷的情緒納入其近期採購計劃。非服裝類別（尤其是物流和食品）的智慧標籤持續大幅成長，本季成長了約 75%。我們在新類別中執行這些關鍵措施為我們的客戶帶來了巨大的價值，並為更廣泛的細分市場採用提供了令人信服的證據。這一成長被服裝業的下滑部分抵消，導致本季智慧標籤整體成長約 10%。我們預計非服裝智慧標籤的成長將在第四季度進一步加速，加上服裝的連續改善，使我們能夠在2023 年實現整個平台的低至中位數成長，低於先前的預期，因為軟服裝的持續成長市場。

As adoption in categories like logistics, food and general retail accelerate and apparel rebounds, we continue to expect the Intelligent Labels platform to deliver 20%-plus growth in the coming years as we further advance our leadership position at the intersection of the physical and digital. Our ability to help address challenges, such as labor efficiency and waste in very large volume categories like logistics and food, is increasingly resonating with customers and we continue to invest to capture the significant opportunity ahead of us.

隨著物流、食品和一般零售等類別的採用加速以及服裝的反彈，我們繼續預期智慧標籤平台將在未來幾年實現 20% 以上的成長，同時進一步提升我們在實體和數位交叉領域的領導地位。我們幫助解決物流和食品等大批量類別的勞動力效率和浪費等挑戰的能力越來越引起客戶的共鳴，我們將繼續投資以抓住我們面前的重大機會。

Intelligent Labels is a great example of one of our key strategies to drive outsized growth in high-value categories. We continue to shift our portfolio towards these categories, both organically and through M&A and we expect to benefit from higher growth contributions from these categories over the long term.

智慧標籤是我們推動高價值類別大幅成長的關鍵策略之一的一個很好的例子。我們繼續透過有機方式和併購將我們的投資組合轉向這些類別，我們預計從長遠來看，我們將受益於這些類別的更高成長貢獻。

Another example of this is our external embellishments platform. Earlier this month, we announced an agreement to acquire Silver Crystal Group, an established player in sports apparel customization and application, with roughly $30 million in annual revenue as we continue to expand our position in this key growth platform.

另一個例子是我們的外部裝飾平台。本月早些時候，我們宣布達成協議，收購Silver Crystal Group，這是一家運動服裝定制和應用領域的老牌企業，年收入約為3000 萬美元，我們將繼續擴大我們在這一關鍵增長平台中的地位。

Turning to the fourth quarter at a total company level. As volumes continue to improve, we expect further sequential earnings improvement. In both of our primary businesses, in past inventory destocking cycles, we've seen the pace of volume improvement accelerate as the industry nears the end of the cycle. In light of the broader macro uncertainty and softer consumption, we continue to anticipate a more measured recovery as we indicated last quarter. We remain confident that as volumes normalize and non-apparel Intelligent Labels adoption expands, we will steadily increase earnings to achieve a $10-plus EPS run rate.

轉向整個公司層面的第四季。隨著銷售持續改善，我們預計獲利將進一步改善。在我們的兩項主要業務中，在過去的庫存去庫存週期中，隨著行業接近週期結束，我們看到銷售改善的步伐加快。鑑於更廣泛的宏觀不確定性和消費疲軟，我們繼續預計，正如我們上季度所指出的那樣，經濟將出現更穩健的復甦。我們仍然相信，隨著銷量的正常化和非服裝智慧標籤採用的擴大，我們將穩步增加收益，以實現 10 美元以上的 EPS 運行率。

We anticipate achieving this at some point in 2024 but the timing of this is uncertain. Stepping back, the underlying fundamentals of our business are strong. We're exposed to diverse and growing markets. We are industry leaders in our primary businesses, with clear competitive advantages in scale and innovation. We have clear set of strategies that have been the keys to our success over the long term across a wide range of business cycles and we are uniquely positioned to connect the physical and the digital to help address some of the most complex problems in the industries we serve.

我們預計在 2024 年的某個時候實現這一目標，但具體時間尚不確定。退一步來說，我們業務的基本面是強勁的。我們面臨著多元化且不斷成長的市場。我們的主營業務處於行業領先地位，在規模和創新方面具有明顯的競爭優勢。我們擁有一套明確的策略，這些策略是我們在廣泛的商業週期中長期取得成功的關鍵，並且我們具有獨特的優勢，可以連接實體和數字，以幫助解決我們所在行業中一些最複雜的問題。服務。

We remain confident that the strategies we formulated will continue to enable us to generate superior value creation through a balance of GDP-plus growth and top quartile returns over the long term.

我們仍然相信，我們所製定的策略將繼續使我們能夠透過 GDP 成長與長期最高四分之一回報的平衡來創造卓越的價值。

I want to thank our entire team for their continued resilience and commitment to addressing the unique challenges at hand. And with that, I'll hand the call over to Greg.

我要感謝我們整個團隊的持續韌性和致力於解決當前的獨特挑戰。這樣，我就把電話轉給格雷格。

Thanks, Deon and hello, everybody. In the third quarter, we delivered adjusted earnings per share of $2.10, up $0.18 sequentially, driven by benefits from higher volume and productivity actions. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 15.6% in the quarter, up 90 basis points compared to Q2 and comparable to prior year, with adjusted EBITDA dollars up about 7% sequentially.

謝謝，德昂，大家好。第三季度，在產量和生產力提高的推動下，我們的調整後每股收益為 2.10 美元，比上一季成長 0.18 美元。本季調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 15.6%，比第二季成長 90 個基點，與去年同期相當，調整後 EBITDA 美元較上季成長約 7%。

Compared to prior year, sales were down 10% ex-currency and 11% on an organic basis, due to lower volume, largely from destocking, which continues to moderate. GAAP operating margin was 10% in the third quarter, which included $44 million in restructuring charges as we continue to drive productivity across our portfolio. The majority of the charges taken in the quarter were related to footprint optimization initiatives in Materials Europe.

與前一年相比，銷售額年減 10%，有機銷售額下降 11%，原因是銷售量下降（主要是因為庫存去化持續放緩）。第三季 GAAP 營業利潤率為 10%，其中包括 4,400 萬美元的重組費用，因為我們繼續提高整個投資組合的生產力。本季收取的大部分費用與歐洲材料公司的足跡優化計劃有關。

Turning to cash generation and allocation. We generated strong adjusted free cash flow of $310 million in the third quarter, up $170 million compared to prior year. In the third quarter, we continued to make good progress reducing higher inventory levels in certain components, in which we experienced supply disruptions over the last couple of years. And overall, our working capital metrics are in good shape.

轉向現金產生和分配。第三季度，我們產生了 3.1 億美元的強勁調整後自由現金流，比去年同期增加了 1.7 億美元。第三季度，我們繼續在降低某些組件的較高庫存水準方面取得了良好進展，在過去幾年中，我們在這些組件中經歷了供應中斷。整體而言，我們的營運資金指標狀況良好。

Our balance sheet remains strong, with a net debt-to-adjusted EBITDA ratio at quarter end of 2.6x. And we continue to execute our disciplined capital allocation strategy, including strategic acquisitions and continuing to return cash to shareholders. In the first 9 months of the year, we returned $309 million to shareholders through a combination of share repurchases and dividends as well as deployed $204 million for M&A.

我們的資產負債表依然強勁，季末淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 比率為 2.6 倍。我們將繼續執行嚴格的資本配置策略，包括策略性收購和繼續向股東返還現金。今年前 9 個月，我們透過股票回購和股利等方式向股東返還 3.09 億美元，並部署了 2.04 億美元用於併購。

Turning to the segment results. Materials Group sales were down 16% ex currency and on an organic basis, driven by a mid-teens volume decline as inventory was being built downstream from us last year and continues to reduce this year. On a sequential basis, volumes increased in Label Materials by mid-single digits in the third quarter. Label volume in combined North America and Europe continued to improve at a similar pace in the third quarter as in the second quarter, which can be seen on Slide 6. Volume also continues to improve through the first few weeks of October.

轉向細分結果。材料集團的銷售額以匯率計算自然下降了 16%，這是由於去年我們下游的庫存不斷增加，今年繼續減少，導致銷量下降了 16%。從環比來看，第三季標籤材料的銷售量成長了中個位數。第三季北美和歐洲的標籤銷售量繼續以與第二季相似的速度成長，這可以從幻燈片 6 中看出。十月份的前幾週銷量也持續成長。

Looking at Label Materials organic volume trends versus prior year and the quarter, North America was down mid-teens and up low single digits sequentially. Europe was down roughly 30% and up mid-single digits sequentially. Asia Pacific was up low double digits and up high single digits sequentially and Latin America was down mid-single digits and up mid- to high single digits sequentially. Also compared to prior year, graphics and reflective sales were down low single digits organically and Performance Tapes and Medical were up low single digits.

從標籤材料的有機銷售趨勢來看，與去年和本季相比，北美地區的產量環比下降了十幾位數，但環比增長了低個位數。歐洲下降了大約 30%，環比上升了中個位數。亞太地區連續出現低兩位數成長和高個位數成長，拉丁美洲連續出現中個位數下降和中高個位數成長。與去年相比，圖形和反光銷售額有機下降了低個位數，而高效能膠帶和醫療銷售額則成長了低個位數。

Materials Group delivered a strong adjusted EBITDA margin of 16.4% in the third quarter, up 90 basis points compared to prior year and up 70 basis points sequentially as benefits from productivity and temporary cost-saving actions more than offset lower volume.

材料集團第三季​​調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 16.4%，較上年同期成長 90 個基點，較上季成長 70 個基點，生產力和臨時成本節約措施帶來的效益足以抵銷產量下降的影響。

Regarding raw material cost, we, again, saw modest deflation sequentially. And as I mentioned last quarter, following a period of significant inflation, these lower costs are largely being passed along in price reductions to our customers.

就原料成本而言，我們再次看到了適度的通貨緊縮。正如我上個季度提到的，在一段時期的嚴重通貨膨脹之後，這些較低的成本在很大程度上透過降價轉嫁給了我們的客戶。

Shifting now to Solutions Group. Sales were up 5% ex currency and 1% on an organic basis. As high single-digit growth in high-value categories was partially offset by a mid- to high single-digit decline in the base business, as retailer and brand sentiment remains muted.

現在轉移到解決方案組。銷售額以匯率計算成長 5%，有機成長 1%。由於高價值類別的高個位數成長被基礎業務的中高個位數下降部分抵消，零售商和品牌情緒仍然低迷。

Adjusted EBITDA margin of 16.4% was up 60 basis points sequentially and down 250 basis points compared to prior year, driven by lower organic volume, higher employee-related costs and strategic investments in Intelligent Labels, partially offset by productivity and temporary cost actions. We expect adjusted EBITDA margin will again improve sequentially in the fourth quarter.

調整後的EBITDA 利潤率為16.4%，環比增長60 個基點，與上年相比下降250 個基點，原因是有機銷量下降、員工相關成本上升以及智能標籤戰略投資，但部分被生產力和臨時成本行動所抵消。我們預計第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將再次較上季改善。

Now shifting to our guidance. In the fourth quarter, we expect adjusted earnings per share to be in the range of $2.10 to $2.25, up significantly compared to prior year and a steady sequential improvement at the midpoint, despite the softer consumption environment.

現在轉向我們的指導。儘管消費環境疲軟，我們預計第四季度調整後每股收益將在 2.10 美元至 2.25 美元之間，較上年同期大幅增長，並在中點實現穩定環比改善。

In the fourth quarter, we expect organic sales growth compared to prior year. Label Materials volume to improve as inventory destocking continues to moderate; Intelligent Labels volume in new categories, particularly logistics and food, to continue to accelerate; further structural cost reduction actions to be implemented as we continue to focus on driving productivity across our businesses; and more than a $0.05 sequential headwind from typical seasonality due to less shipping days in the fourth quarter.

在第四季度，我們預計有機銷售額將比去年同期成長。隨著庫存去庫存持續放緩，標籤材料銷售將有所改善；新類別的智慧標籤數量，特別是物流和食品，將繼續加速；隨著我們繼續專注於提高整個業務的生產力，將實施進一步的結構性成本削減行動；由於第四季出貨天數減少，與典型季節性因素相比，季減反風超過 0.05 美元。

We remain confident that we will steadily increase earnings to achieve a $10-plus adjusted earnings per share run rate. So given the level of macro uncertainty, the timing is difficult to predict. The sequential improvement will be driven by the normalization of Label Materials volume, the continued growth in non-apparel Intelligent Labels, the impact of ongoing productivity actions and structural cost reductions and the normalization of apparel volumes.

我們仍然有信心穩定增加收益，以實現調整後每股收益 10 美元以上。因此，考慮到宏觀不確定性的程度，時機很難預測。標籤材料產量的正常化、非服裝智慧標籤的持續成長、持續的生產力行動和結構性成本削減的影響以及服裝產量的正常化將推動連續改善。

We've outlined additional full year considerations on Slide 13 of our supplemental presentation materials. We continue to estimate that incremental pretax savings from restructuring, net of transition costs, will contribute roughly $65 million. We anticipate investing roughly $300 million on fixed capital and IT projects, down roughly $25 million from our previous outlook as we pared back capital investment slightly.

我們在補充簡報資料的幻燈片 13 中概述了額外的全年註意事項。我們繼續估計，扣除轉型成本後，重組帶來的稅前增量節省將貢獻約 6,500 萬美元。我們預計將在固定資本和 IT 項目上投資約 3 億美元，比先前的預期減少約 2,500 萬美元，因為我們略微削減了資本投資。

An anticipated impact from currency translation has increased and now reflects a roughly $18 million headwind for the full year based on current rates. And we continue to expect our full year adjusted tax rate will be in the mid-20% range.

貨幣換算的預期影響增加，根據當前匯率，目前反映出全年的阻力約為 1,800 萬美元。我們繼續預計全年調整後稅率將在 20% 的中間範圍內。

In summary, we're continuing to improve our results. And despite the near-term challenges, we remain confident in our ability to continue to deliver exceptional value through our strategies for long-term profitable growth and disciplined capital allocation.

總之，我們正在繼續改進我們的結果。儘管近期面臨挑戰，我們仍然相信我們有能力透過長期獲利成長和嚴格的資本配置策略繼續創造卓越價值。

We will now open up the call for your questions.

我們現在將開放式電話詢問您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of George Staphos with Bank of America.

（操作員指令）我們的第一個問題來自美國銀行的喬治‧斯塔福斯（George Staphos）。

My question, to start, is on Intelligent Label. And the less-than-expected growth in total, driven by apparel, if I understood the commentary correctly and it sounded like it was apparel related to consumer sentiment that drove the variance. And I guess, if you could provide more detail in terms of what was the expectation in terms of market, in terms of consumer demand, in terms of sentiment, in terms of what your customers were saying relative to what transpired in the third quarter? And then, in turn, why you think that improves over the next 1 to 2 quarters?

首先，我的問題是關於智慧標籤。如果我正確理解了評論的話，由服裝推動的整體成長低於預期，聽起來是與消費者信心相關的服裝推動了差異。我想，您能否提供更多細節，包括市場預期、消費者需求、情緒、客戶對第三季發生的情況的看法？然後，您為什麼認為未來 1 到 2 個季度會有所改善？

Thanks, George. If you recall what we said earlier in the year, was that we anticipated that apparel wouldn't recover through the remainder of the year but we see slight sequential and volume improvement. And as we showed, I think, on Slide 6, George, you can see what we have anticipated was that continued apparel imports we've done so sequentially continued over a full period quarter.

謝謝，喬治。如果您還記得我們今年早些時候所說的話，我們預計服裝在今年剩餘時間內不會復甦，但我們看到環比和銷量略有改善。正如我們在第 6 張投影片上所展示的，喬治，您可以看到我們所預期的是，我們已經這樣做的持續服裝進口將在整個季度內持續進行。

And in addition to that, we continue to actually see somewhat surprisingly that inventory to sales ratios are also declining. And so the combination of that, I think, is really factoring into kind of more muted apparel near-term sentiment as brands and retailers think about their sourcing opportunities.

除此之外，我們仍然驚訝地發現庫存與銷售比率也在下降。因此，我認為，當品牌和零售商考慮他們的採購機會時，這兩者的結合確實會影響服裝近期情緒的平靜。

In addition to that, we have seen the expansion of our non-IL apparel business significantly, particularly in logistics and food, as we really are demonstrating the value to our customers that those solutions are able to bring.

除此之外，我們還看到我們的非伊利諾伊服裝業務顯著擴張，特別是在物流和食品領域，因為我們確實向客戶展示了這些解決方案所能帶來的價值。

And as I look forward then into Q4, we're anticipating a little bit more recovery in apparel. And we also have, as I mentioned the last time, a number of new apparel programs that are in rollout. Sometimes they switch between quarters as they ramp, we've typically seen that over time but that will also add to our apparel IL volume growth as we go into the fourth quarter, George.

當我展望第四季時，我們預計服裝業會出現更多復甦。正如我上次提到的，我們還有一些正在推出的新服裝計劃。有時，隨著時間的推移，它們會在季度之間切換，我們通常會隨著時間的推移看到這種情況，但這也將在我們進入第四季度時增加我們的服裝IL 銷量增長，喬治。

Our next question comes from the line of John McNulty with BMO Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自蒙特利爾銀行資本市場部的約翰·麥克納爾蒂 (John McNulty)。

So I guess my question is really about the guide. So 3Q, you did about $2.10. You're basically looking flat to up about $0.15 in 4Q. And I guess, if I think about it, you've got the big RFID improvement, particularly in the logistics. You've got incremental cost saves, which seems like, combined those would put you at the high end of the range without any assumption for less destocking at the core, falling ROS or anything like that.

所以我想我的問題實際上是關於指南的。所以第三季度，你做了大約 2.10 美元。第四季基本持平，漲幅約 0.15 美元。我想，仔細想想，您會發現 RFID 已經取得了很大的進步，特別是在物流方面。你已經節省了增量成本，看起來，將這些結合起來將使你處於範圍的高端，而不需要任何減少核心庫存、下降 ROS 或類似情況的假設。

It sounds like maybe a little bit seasonality but I guess what am I missing in terms of the bad guys here? Because it seems like the outlook for 4Q -- or the guidance for 4Q is kind of unusually or extremely conservative.

聽起來可能有點季節性，但我想我在壞人方面錯過了什麼？因為第四季的前景或第四季的指導似乎異常或極度保守。

Yes. John, so I would say when we look at the guide at the midpoint when you adjust for that seasonality, as you mentioned, we're up about $0.15 sequentially. Obviously, at the high end, a bit higher than that.

是的。約翰，所以我想說，當我們在中點查看指南時，當您根據季節性進行調整時，正如您所提到的，我們連續上漲了約 0.15 美元。顯然，在高端，比這個高一些。

When we look at what's driving that, as you said, we're expecting pretty significant Intelligent Labels growth Q3 to Q4, as we've already talked about. We are seeing the start of Q4 here, sequential volumes in our label business continuing to improve as well as we've talked about as we see that steady improvement.

正如您所說，當我們研究推動這一趨勢的因素時，我們預計智慧標籤在第三季至第四季將出現相當顯著的成長，正如我們已經討論過的那樣。我們在這裡看到第四季度的開始，我們的標籤業務的連續銷售持續改善，正如我們所討論的那樣，我們看到了這種穩步改善。

Now what we're also seeing and I think Deon mentioned this earlier, we are continuing to see more macro uncertainty. We've seen the data on retail volumes in Europe continued to decline sequentially in the third quarter. And generally, I think we're seeing a bit muted sentiment and cautiousness from whether it be apparel retailers and brands as well as consumer packaged goods companies.

現在我們也看到，我認為德翁之前提到過這一點，我們繼續看到更多的宏觀不確定性。我們看到第三季歐洲零售量數據持續下降。總的來說，我認為我們看到無論是服裝零售商和品牌還是消費品公司，情緒都有些低迷和謹慎。

And so we're looking at that and trying to factor into our guidance a little bit of consensus from them as they enter the end of the year. And we'll see how that plays out as we get through holiday and how that sentiment evolves. So right now, we're just seeing some consensus there on the end user side. So we're trying to factor that into our guide as well.

因此，我們正在研究這一點，並試圖在進入年底時將他們的一點共識納入我們的指導中。當我們度過假期時，我們將看到這種情況如何發展，以及這種情緒如何演變。所以現在，我們只是看到最終用戶方面達成了一些共識。因此，我們也試圖將這一點納入我們的指南中。

Our next question comes from the line of Ghansham Panjabi with Robert W. Baird & Co.

我們的下一個問題來自 Ghansham Panjabi 與 Robert W. Baird & Co. 的對話。

I guess going back to your comments on destocking. Have the categories that were sort of first in on the destocking curve from 4Q of last year, have they started to inflect higher on a year-over-year basis at this point? And then related to that, it seems like many of the CPG customers are actually being much more aggressive on cutting inventories just given the higher cost of holding inventory, given interest rates and also inflation.

我想回到你關於去庫存的評論。從去年第四季開始，那些在去庫存曲線上首先出現的類別是否已經開始比去年同期走高？與此相關的是，考慮到利率和通貨膨脹，持有庫存的成本更高，許多快速消費品客戶實際上在削減庫存方面更加積極。

How is that factoring in, in terms of the outlook for the first half of next year, the way you see it at this point? And then also more importantly, as it relates to the $10 of run rate earnings, the time line of that?

就明年上半年的前景而言，您目前的看法是如何考慮的？更重要的是，因為它與 10 美元的運行率收益相關，所以時間軸是什麼？

Thanks, Ghansham. I think the thing that we've seen more recently is that kind of more broader macro uncertainty and slower consumption. And Greg, I think, called out, particularly in Europe macro retail data volume, is actually sequentially down each month over the last couple of months. And we do see consumer packaged goods volume still below last year in a large number of consumer packaged goods companies as well. And I think that caution, whether it's in that particular end market or also in apparel, I think it's just part of what we're seeing as a consequence of higher interest rates and its impact on consumers and how they react.

謝謝，甘沙姆。我認為我們最近看到的是更廣泛的宏觀不確定性和消費放緩。我認為格雷格指出，特別是歐洲宏觀零售數據量，實際上在過去幾個月中每個月都在持續下降。我們確實看到許多消費品公司的消費品銷售仍低於去年。我認為這種謹慎，無論是在特定的終端市場還是在服裝領域，我認為這只是我們所看到的利率上升及其對消費者的影響及其反應的結果的一部分。

And so we're seeing -- we're starting to see some of the sequential improvement from inventory destocking, particularly for the categories that went in first. And you've seen that in our results and you continue to see that even in our forecast for the fourth quarter, Ghansham.

所以我們看到——我們開始看到庫存去庫存帶來的一些連續改善，特別是對於首先進入的類別。您已經在我們的業績中看到了這一點，甚至在我們對第四季度的預測中也繼續看到了這一點，Ghansham。

As I think about it now, given that uncertainty, it makes it very difficult to call when that $10 run rate will happen. That's why we think it will happen at a point during next year but the timing of it, uncertain. I'm very confident in the fundamentals of our business. And I'm confident that when volume really does return, we can see a clear path to that $10-plus run rate as we move forward.

現在我想，考慮到這種不確定性，很難預測 10 美元的運行率何時會發生。這就是為什麼我們認為這將在明年的某個時間發生，但具體時間不確定。我對我們業務的基本面非常有信心。我相信，當成交量真正恢復時，我們可以看到一條清晰的道路，讓我們繼續前進，實現 10 美元以上的運行率。

Our next question is from the line of Jeff Zekauskas with JPMorgan Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通證券的 Jeff Zekauskas。

I have a two-part question. I was looking at your bar graph for volumes on Slide 6. And when you measure it, it looks like Q4 of '22 was 1.2 [inches] and Q4 -- and October is 1.4%. So it looks like the volume is up 16%. Is that right?

我有一個由兩個部分組成的問題。我正在查看幻燈片 6 上的成交量條形圖。當你測量它時，看起來 22 年第四季度是 1.2 [英寸]，第四季度 - 10 月份是 1.4%。所以看起來成交量增加了 16%。是對的嗎？

And second, you've got 2 tranches of debt. You've got -- both about 1% rate. You've got [300] in August of 2024 and you've got [533] in the first quarter of '25. Is your intention to pay those down or to refinance them?

其次，你有兩部分債務。兩者的利率都約為 1%。您在 2024 年 8 月獲得了 [300] 個，在 25 年第一季獲得了 [533] 個。您打算償還這些款項還是為其再融資？

Yes, Jeff, so I guess starting on the bar chart, I think with the scale, I think you can't quite make that direct conclusion from that scale. What we're seeing is, if you recall last year in Q4, really in October, we were still seeing some stocking up, particularly in Europe. And then we started to see in November that pretty sharp downturn towards converters starting to destock. And that's what's carried through.

是的，傑夫，所以我想從條形圖開始，我認為通過比例，我認為你不能從那個比例中直接得出結論。我們看到的是，如果你還記得去年第四季度，實際上是十月份，我們仍然看到一些庫存，特別是在歐洲。然後我們在 11 月開始看到加工商開始去庫存的情況急劇下滑。這就是我們所經歷的。

So now when we've gone through Q4, we're still seeing volumes below prior year in Q3, picking up a bit in Q4, closer and closer to where we were, obviously, back to that early part of the Q4 levels. But overall, yes, you can't make a direct comparison there.

因此，現在當我們經歷了第四季度時，我們仍然看到第三季度的交易量低於去年同期，第四季度有所回升，顯然越來越接近我們的水平，回到第四季度早期的水平。但總的來說，是的，你不能在那裡進行直接比較。

I think in the third quarter, our volumes were down mid-teens versus prior year. And when you look at that, obviously, last year, there was stocking up going on in the third quarter. It was actually our highest quarter of stock build last year. And then obviously, we're still taking some inventory down here this quarter at the rate of about, I think, more than a week in North America and a little bit less than that in Europe. So that's how I think about those 2 things.

我認為在第三季度，我們的銷量比去年同期下降了十幾歲。當你看到這一點時，很明顯，去年第三季出現了庫存增加。這實際上是我們去年庫存成長最高的季度。顯然，本季我們仍在以北美大約一周多的速度減少一些庫存，比歐洲略少一些。這就是我對這兩件事的看法。

From a debt perspective, some of that depends on M&A opportunities and things like that and how they evolve over the next year or 2 and how that capital allocation plays out. Absence of M&A or something major from that perspective, then I think we'd be looking at next year probably continuing to pay down the debt with cash flow. But again, that will determine a little bit on what the opportunities are and how we proceed from an M&A perspective.

從債務角度來看，其中一些取決於併購機會和類似的事情，以及它們在未來一兩年內如何發展以及資本配置如何發揮作用。從這個角度來看，如果沒有併購或重大事件，那麼我認為我們明年可能會繼續用現金流來償還債務。但同樣，這將在一定程度上決定機會是什麼以及我們如何從併購的角度進行。

Our next question from the line of Josh Spector with UBS Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀證券的 Josh Spector。

I wanted to ask on margins within the solutions segment. So your sales were up in 3Q year-on-year but your EBIT is down. Your margin did improve but it was fairly marginal. So -- and I think some of the things you called out was higher investment, the cost, et cetera.

我想詢問解決方案領域的利潤率。因此，您的第三季銷售額年增，但息稅前利潤卻下降了。你的利潤率確實有提高，但幅度相當小。所以——我認為你提出的一些問題是更高的投資、成本等等。

So one, can you give any granularity around those different pieces for 3Q? And then two, when you look at next year and say, you get volume growth within intelligent labels, you have some easier comps. What's the right incremental we should be thinking of on that growth?

那麼，您能否詳細說明 3Q 的這些不同部分？然後第二個，當你展望明年並說，你會在智慧標籤中獲得銷售成長，你會得到一些更簡單的比較。我們應該考慮這種成長的正確增量是什麼？

Yes. Thanks, Josh. This is Greg. So I think when you look at overall solutions in the quarter, as you can see, our organic growth in the quarter was about 0.5 point but the majority of that driven by the Intelligent Labels growth, as we've already talked about at around 10 points. And base apparel and our base business down in the segment was down.

是的。謝謝，喬許。這是格雷格。因此，我認為，當您查看本季的整體解決方案時，您會看到，我們本季的有機成長約為0.5 個百分點，但其中大部分是由智慧標籤成長推動的，正如我們已經討論過的，在10 個百分點左右點。基礎服裝和我們在該領域的基礎業務也有所下降。

Now when we look at that 0.5 point of growth, we had a little bit of price up and volumes overall were down a little bit in the quarter, particularly in the base, as I mentioned a second ago. And I think as you probably heard us talk about in the past, in the Solutions segment, we need 1 point or so of growth in order to offset things like wage inflation, things like that, that are an annual increase in cost of that business.

現在，當我們看到 0.5 個百分點的成長時，我們的價格略有上漲，而本季的整體銷量略有下降，特別是在基數方面，正如我剛才提到的那樣。我認為，正如您過去可能聽到我們談論的那樣，在解決方案領域，我們需要 1 個百分點左右的增長，以抵消工資通膨之類的問題，即該業務成本的年度增長。

So we had year-over-year employee costs go up as well as the investments that we've been making in Intelligent Labels from a carryover perspective as well as investments as we were ramping up the new programs here. So those are really the areas that I think impacted margins in the quarter.

因此，我們的員工成本逐年上升，從結轉的角度來看，我們在智慧標籤方面的投資以及我們在這裡加強新項目時的投資都在上升。因此，我認為這些確實是影響本季利潤率的領域。

So we were happy to see the sequential improvement that we made in Q3, even though we're still below prior year. We do expect further sequential improvement in Q4, I would say, 1 point or so from where we were in Q3. And I would expect then when we look next year to get back closer to the margin rates we were at last year in the Solutions segment overall.

因此，我們很高興看到第三季的連續改善，儘管我們仍低於去年同期。我們確實預計第四季會有進一步的連續改善，我想說，比第三季的情況提高 1 個百分點左右。我預計，當我們明年展望時，整個解決方案領域的利潤率將回到更接近去年的水平。

Next question is from the line of Anthony Pettinari with Citigroup Global Markets.

下一個問題來自花旗集團全球市場部的 Anthony Pettinari。

You've had this year where organic sales is down 10%. And I'm just wondering, do you feel that there's any market share shifts in either materials or solutions? Are you potentially losing some shareholding? Gaining? Any kind of conclusions you can draw looking at the last 3 quarters and anything that you would differentiate between materials and solutions, understanding solutions is getting a bit better?

今年有機銷售額下降了 10%。我只是想知道，您是否認為材料或解決方案的市場份額發生了變化？您是否有可能失去一些股權？取得？透過查看過去三個季度，您可以得出任何類型的結論，以及您可以區分材料和解決方案的任何結論，對解決方案的理解是否有所改善？

Yes. Anthony, I think our view is that largely the function of volume being down is just reflecting the inventory that was built during last year and the slow unwind of it as we go through this year. And we know having looked at this very closely, that we have maintained or even expanded share across our materials businesses in 2023.

是的。安東尼，我認為我們的觀點是，成交量下降很大程度上只是反映了去年建立的庫存以及今年庫存的緩慢釋放。仔細研究後我們知道，到 2023 年，我們在材料業務中保持甚至擴大了份額。

We've held and slightly expanded share in our base apparel business and our overall IL share continues to grow as well, Anthony. And that reflects our continued focus by the teams on ensuring that they're really delivering excellence of service and quality to our customers and helping them address some of the challenges they themselves are facing right now.

我們已經持有並略微擴大了基礎服裝業務的份額，我們的整體 IL 份額也在繼續增長，安東尼。這反映了我們團隊持續專注於確保他們真正為客戶提供卓越的服務和質量，並幫助他們解決他們自己目前面臨的一些挑戰。

Next question from the line of Mike Roxland with Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Mike Roxland。

Just wanted to get your insights into what's happening in Europe. One of your peers is cutting label stock adoption in Europe, citing continued weak demand. So what gives you the confidence that the bottom has been reached at this point and that demand in Europe will ultimately improve?

只是想讓您了解歐洲正在發生的事情。您的一位同行正在削減歐洲標籤庫存的採用，理由是需求持續疲軟。那麼，是什麼讓您相信目前已經觸底並且歐洲的需求最終會改善呢？

Well, Mike, I think we highlighted there is a degree of uncertainty as we are into the macro environment and we've seen softer consumption in Europe. And I think we've been very clear that we're not necessarily [recalling] the time in the recovery. We do see slow sequential improvement. And I think the thing that I always go back to is that at the end of the day, we're serving, ultimately across multi-cycle time phase. We serve markets that are both growing and diverse and typically, are GDP plus. And so at a point, the markets will recover, demand will come back and we are ideally positioned in that regard. We have leadership positions in both our businesses and we have strategies that continue to deliver successfully over the years. And we have a team that leads the industry in both of our businesses as well.

好吧，麥克，我認為我們強調了宏觀環境中存在一定程度的不確定性，而且我們看到歐洲的消費疲軟。我認為我們已經非常清楚，我們不一定會[回憶]復甦的時期。我們確實看到了緩慢的連續改善。我認為我總是回顧的事情是，在一天結束時，我們正在提供服務，最終跨越多個週期時間階段。我們服務於不斷成長且多元化的市場，通常是 GDP+市場。因此，到了某個時候，市場將會復甦，需求將會回升，而我們在這方面處於理想的位置。我們在兩項業務中都處於領先地位，並且我們的策略多年來持續成功交付。我們擁有一支在我們的兩個業務領域都處於行業領先地位的團隊。

Mike, I think I would add just as we talked about, I think, last quarter, historically, we've been in a period of a destock or a downturn. We've seen volumes rebound or accelerate kind of quickly at the end of that cycle. And what we've been talking about this year through this period is a little bit more steady improvement over the last number of months and quarters, as you can see in those bar graphs that we showed.

麥克，我想我想補充一點，正如我們所談論的，我認為，從歷史上看，上個季度我們一直處於去庫存或低迷時期。我們已經看到交易量在該週期結束時迅速反彈或加速。正如您在我們展示的條形圖中看到的那樣，今年這段時期我們一直在談論的是過去幾個月和幾個季度的更加穩定的改善。

And I think that steady improvement reflects a couple of things. One is the improvement of inventory levels at our converters and our direct customers over the last quarter or so but also that (inaudible) in kind of the slowdown in consumer demand at the same time. So I think that those 2 things hitting at the same time is leading to a more steady increase in our recovery rather than a more accelerated ramp at the end of that destocking cycle. And I think that's why we're continuing to project a steady continued improvement quarter-over-quarter as we go forward.

我認為穩定的進步反映了幾件事。一是我們的加工商和直接客戶的庫存水準在上個季度左右有所改善，但同時（聽不清楚）消費者需求也有所放緩。因此，我認為這兩件事同時發生會導致我們的復甦更加穩定地成長，而不是在去庫存週期結束時加速成長。我認為這就是為什麼我們在前進的過程中繼續預計逐季度穩步持續改善的原因。

Our next question is coming from the line of Christopher Kapsch with Loop Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 Loop Capital Markets 的 Christopher Kapsch。

Yes, it's a two-part question. One and sort of piggyback off of some of the other commentary but just on the comments around the sequential improvement in demand in Materials segment thus far into October, just wondering if you could characterize that by sort of by geography and/or by category?

是的，這是一個由兩個部分組成的問題。其中之一是藉鑒了其他一些評論，但只是關於截至 10 月份為止材料領域需求連續改善的評論，只是想知道您是否可以按地理和/或按類別來描述這一點？

And then secondly, in Intelligent Labels, there's a number of RFID programs that are gaining traction, for lack of better characterization and maybe that improving visibility helps give you confidence in around the commentary about the sustainability of the 20% growth CAGR -- 20%-plus growth CAGR going forward.

其次，在智慧標籤領域，有許多 RFID 項目正在獲得關注，因為缺乏更好的表徵，也許提高可見性有助於讓您對有關 20% 複合年增長率可持續性的評論充滿信心 - 20% -加上未來複合年增長率。

I'm just wondering if you could, to the extent that some of these programs are in conventional big-box retailers but beyond apparel, I'm just wondering if there's any evidence that would suggest that just the addressable -- the TAM is expanding, given the use case for this Intelligent Label given what they're being attached to beyond apparel?

我只是想知道您是否可以，因為其中一些計劃是在傳統的大型零售商中進行的，但除了服裝之外，我只是想知道是否有任何證據表明，只是可尋址的 - TAM 正在擴大考慮到此智慧標籤的用例，考慮到它們除了服裝之外還附加在什麼上？

Yes. So Chris, let me address the first question and I'll get to the second. We have seen low sequential improvement in demand, sorry, in volume in our Materials business in the first part of October. That's reflected in the bar chart. And I think that reflects both the continuation of the destocking moderating largely in Europe, as we said, we think it's largely complete now by the end of Q3. There's a little bit to go in Q4 in North America. And so we would anticipate volume to slowly and sequentially improve in that regard.

是的。克里斯，讓我解決第一個問題，然後我將討論第二個問題。抱歉，我們看到 10 月上半月我們材料業務的需求較上季改善幅度較小。這反映在長條圖中。我認為這反映了歐洲去庫存的繼續放緩，正如我們所說，我們認為到第三季末，去庫存已基本完成。北美第四季還有一些進展。因此，我們預期這方面的交易量將緩慢、連續地改善。

As it relates to IL overall, our Intelligent Labels platform, we have a high degree of confidence in that 20% growth rate. And let me tell you why, Chris. I think firstly, we are really seeing our nonapparel categories, largely now logistics and food, continue to accelerate. And you can see that both in Q3 and in Q4. These are actual rollouts that are happening in logistics customers and food customers. They're in flight. They are delivering real value for our customers. And most importantly, as that value becomes more visible, it becomes a compelling proof point for the broader segment to think about adopting. We saw that when apparel first adopted as well and we're seeing a mirror of that as we anticipate going forward.

由於它與整個 IL（我們的智慧標籤平台）相關，因此我們對 20% 的成長率充滿信心。讓我告訴你原因，克里斯。我認為首先，我們確實看到我們的非服裝類別（現在主要是物流和食品）繼續加速。您可以在第三季和第四季看到這一點。這些是物流客戶和食品客戶中正在發生的實際推廣。他們在飛行中。他們正在為我們的客戶提供真正的價值。最重要的是，隨著這種價值變得更加明顯，它成為更廣泛的群體考慮採用的令人信服的證據。當服裝首次被採用時，我們也看到了這一點，我們預計未來也會看到這一點。

I think the second thing is apparel is recovering and it will bounce back at a point. And when that happens, we are the market leader in apparel IL overall. And it's not just the recovery of the volume in apparel, it will also be the continuation of new use cases. I think I spoke previously about our rollout with Inditex on a loss prevention application that is in addition to the inventory productivity we typically see.

我認為第二件事是服裝正在復蘇，並且會在某個時候反彈。當這種情況發生時，我們將成為整個伊利諾伊服裝市場的領導者。這不僅是服裝銷售的恢復，也將是新用例的延續。我想我之前談到過我們與 Inditex 合作推出的防損應用程序，這是除了我們通常看到的庫存生產力之外的。

And we're continuing to see new retailers and brands rollout. And I mentioned 4 previously and we have another 4 in flight right now, large ones as well. They will augment the apparel growth as well.

我們不斷看到新的零售商和品牌推出。我之前提到過 4 架，我們現在還有另外 4 架正在飛行，而且還有大型飛機。它們也將促進服裝的成長。

And I think the other piece to really consider is, when you think about those non-apparel categories, like logistics and food, they are significantly bigger than apparel. If apparel is around, let's call, a addressable market of 45 billion units, logistics is at least 65 billion to 70 billion and food is in the order of 200 billion units and we are just at the start of the adoption in those 2 categories.

我認為真正需要考慮的另一件事是，當你考慮物流和食品等非服裝類別時，它們的規模明顯大於服裝。如果服裝是一個 450 億件的潛在市場，物流至少是 650 億到 700 億件，食物大約是 2000 億件，而我們才剛開始採用這兩個類別。

So the scale of the opportunity, the potential that lies in front of us is tremendous. And that's the reason, Chris, that we've been investing to ensure that we can maintain and expand our market leadership position. We're not just here to make sure we're solving some of these unique challenges for customers but actually to try and ensure that we're activating the industries and the segments within. And having seen the impact that we're having on those customers and the fact that how much they value our market-leading team, it just -- it reinforces the confidence they have in that future growth rate.

因此，擺在我們面前的機會和潛力是巨大的。克里斯，這就是我們一直進行投資以確保我們能夠保持和擴大我們的市場領導地位的原因。我們來這裡不僅僅是為了確保我們正在為客戶解決一些獨特的挑戰，而且實際上是為了嘗試確保我們正在激活行業和其中的細分市場。看到我們對這些客戶的影響以及他們對我們市場領先團隊的重視這一事實，這增強了他們對未來成長率的信心。

Our next question is from the line of Matt Roberts with Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題來自馬特羅伯茨和雷蒙德詹姆斯。

When I think about the investments you're making in Intelligent Labels as well as you referenced turning some inventory earlier, when I think of the cash conversion cycle for Intelligent Labels, is that different than the rest of the system? I guess there are longer lag and when you have to invest in that inventory, to when you're able to book the revenue versus everything else. If there's any color you could provide, that would be really helpful.

當我想到您在智慧標籤方面進行的投資以及您之前提到的一些庫存週轉時，當我想到智慧標籤的現金轉換週期時，這與系統的其他部分有什麼不同嗎？我想當你必須投資該庫存時，到你能夠預訂收入而不是其他一切時，會有更長的延遲時間。如果您可以提供任何顏色，那將非常有幫助。

Yes, Matt, I think, in general terms, the answer would be no. It's relatively similar to what we've been experiencing in the Intelligent Labels business over the last number of years. I think over the last few quarters, as I've talked about, we had built up some inventory in chips. That's something we had driven starting last year when we were starting to see some of the inventory challenges there. So that's why we started that. But overall, I think when we look at that from a normal ongoing process, I wouldn't expect any difference from what we've seen over the last few years.

是的，馬特，我認為，一般來說，答案是否定的。這與我們過去幾年在智慧標籤業務中經歷的情況相對相似。我認為在過去的幾個季度中，正如我所談到的，我們已經建立了一些晶片庫存。這是我們從去年開始推動的事情，當時我們開始看到那裡的一些庫存挑戰。這就是我們開始這樣做的原因。但總的來說，我認為當我們從正常的持續流程來看時，我預計這與我們過去幾年所看到的情況不會有任何不同。

And Matt, the only thing I'd add to that is, typically, when we look at some of these large-scale rollouts, our focus is on consistent and flawless execution. We have to make sure that we deliver not only the business case, the business economics but actually the reliance, ensuring that we can provide everything they need.

馬特，我唯一要補充的是，通常，當我們考慮其中一些大規模部署時，我們的重點是一致和完美的執行。我們必須確保我們不僅提供商業案例、商業經濟學，而且實際上提供信賴，確保我們能夠提供他們所需的一切。

And so we typically tend to invest to make sure that we have the capacity to both do that and from a people and from a asset and then from a working capital perspective. But as that program then continues to roll out, we typically end up normalizing relative to all of our other working capital cash collection cycles as well.

因此，我們通常傾向於進行投資，以確保我們有能力做到這一點，從人員、資產以及營運資本的角度來看。但隨著該計劃繼續推出，我們通常最終也會相對於所有其他營運資金現金回收週期實現正常化。

And we have a follow-up question from the line of George Staphos with Bank of America.

我們有來自美國銀行的喬治·斯塔福斯 (George Staphos) 的後續問題。

Deon, can you talk to what the payback return -- payback period is on some of the newer markets relative to -- for IL relative to what you've seen with apparel, arguably, especially with logistics, perhaps given the value of the products for your customers the payback might actually be quicker and the return higher? Can you talk to that? Can you index it somehow?

Deon，您能談談相對於您在服裝方面看到的 IL 的投資回收期嗎？可以說，尤其是在物流方面，也許考慮到產品的價值對於您的客戶來說，回報實際上可能更快且回報更高？你能談談嗎？你能以某種方式索引它嗎？

And then just a quick follow-on. At the end of the day, I wasn't clear. Are you expecting Label Materials to be up year-on-year in volume in the fourth quarter? I know you're making sequential improvement. I know the comp was tough in October and then November last year, things dropped off. What would you have us know about your guidance for the fourth quarter in terms of what it means for material volume year-on-year in the segment?

然後是快速跟進。到最後，我還是不清楚。您預計第四季度標籤材料銷量將年增嗎？我知道你正在取得連續的進步。我知道去年 10 月份的比賽很艱難，然後去年 11 月份，情況就下降了。您想讓我們了解您對第四季度的指導，這對於該領域的材料量比去年同期意味著什麼？

Thanks, George. The way that I -- we've seen the payback for, particularly in apparel will start there, George, has typically been in that sort of less than 1 year payback cycle typically. And it varies by retail and brand depending on the complexity of their retail estate, depending on the complexity and the length of their supply chain and the diversity of their supply chain as well.

謝謝，喬治。喬治，我們已經看到了回報，特別是在服裝方面，通常會處於不到一年的回報週期。它因零售業和品牌而異，取決於零售業的複雜性、供應鏈的複雜性和長度以及供應鏈的多樣性。

And you're right that in logistics, we will be seeing shorter paybacks because the supply chain is more compressed. It may not be as globally orientated initially in some of the pieces we've seen. And that's -- and we're at the infancy of some of the food work that we're doing right now. Our anticipation is that the food payback cycle will be similar to apparel, within that 1 year period as well, because there is a supply chain across multiple suppliers that will also have similar reasons the way we've seen apparel in the past.

你說得對，在物流領域，我們將看到更短的回報，因為供應鏈更加壓縮。在我們所看到的一些作品中，它最初可能不那麼面向全球。我們現在正在進行的一些食品工作正處於起步階段。我們的預期是，食品的投資回收週期將與服裝相似，在這一年內也是如此，因為存在跨多個供應商的供應鏈，這些供應商也將具有與我們過去看到的服裝類似的原因。

As to your second question, we do anticipate sequential label volume improvement as we go through the fourth quarter and that reflects both the inventory destocking moderating further and some slight demand improvement as we move as well forward, George.

關於你的第二個問題，我們確實預計第四季度標籤數量會連續改善，這反映出庫存去庫存進一步放緩，以及隨著我們向前發展，需求會略有改善，喬治。

And George, also, I'm not sure of your question. I think last question was year-over-year sequential -- year-over-year, we also expect to see volumes up in the label business, as Deon said, it's the same reason we started to lap that destocking last year.

喬治，我也不確定你的問題。我認為最後一個問題是同比連續的——同比，我們也預計標籤業務的銷量會增加，正如 Deon 所說，這也是我們去年開始減少庫存的原因。

We still got some destocking in North America in Q4, little bit less in Europe, as we've already talked about. So we do start to see volumes up in the fourth quarter versus prior year.

正如我們已經討論過的，第四季度我們在北美仍然進行了一些去庫存，在歐洲則略有減少。因此，我們確實開始看到第四季的銷量較去年有所增加。

The other thing I would say when you're looking at the sales line, as we've seen that sequential deflation, as we move through the last couple of quarters, we do have some price down as we've talked about as well. So it will offset some of that volume increase. But certainly, we expect volume to grow a little bit year-over-year in the fourth quarter.

我要說的另一件事是，當你查看銷售線時，正如我們看到的連續通貨緊縮，隨著我們過去幾個季度的發展，我們確實有一些價格下降，正如我們所討論的那樣。因此，它將抵消部分銷量的增加。但當然，我們預計第四季的銷量將比去年同期略有成長。

Mr. Stander, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call over back to you for any closing remarks.

史坦德先生，目前沒有其他問題。我現在將把電話轉回給您，請您發表結束語。

Thank you, Carlos and thank you all for joining us on the call today. While the environment remains dynamic, we are extremely confident in our position and prospects and our ability to generate GDP-plus growth and top quartile returns over the long term. So thank you, all.

謝謝卡洛斯，也謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。儘管環境仍然充滿活力，但我們對我們的地位和前景以及我們實現 GDP 成長和長期最高四分之一回報的能力充滿信心。所以謝謝大家。

Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for your participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

女士們先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。