日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang, the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our first quarter 2026 earnings release. I am joined today by Joseph Tung, our CFO. Thank you for attending our earnings release today. Please refer to our safe harbor notice on page 2.

您好。我是日月光投控投資人關係主管 Ken Hsiang。歡迎參加我們 2026 年第一季財報發布。今天與我一同出席的是本公司財務長 Joseph Tung。感謝各位出席今天的財報發布。請參閱第 2 頁的安全港聲明。

All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please do not ask questions or you may leave the session at this time.

所有與會者透過參與本活動，即表示同意其聲音與提問將被播送。若與會者不同意，請勿提問，或可於此時離開會議。

I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially. For the purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars, unless otherwise indicated.

提醒各位，接下來的簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述具有高度風險，我們的實際結果可能出現重大差異。就本簡報而言，除非另有說明，金額一般以新台幣表示。

As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information is presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiaries. For today's presentation, I will be going over the financial results, and Joseph will then provide the company's guidance. We will then be available to take your questions during the Q&A session that follows.

作為一家以台灣為基地的公司，我們的財務資訊係依台灣 IFRS 編製。依台灣 IFRS 呈列之結果，可能與採用其他會計準則（包括我們子公司所採用者）之結果有重大差異。今天的簡報將由我說明財務結果，接著由 Joseph 提供公司展望指引。之後我們將在隨後的問答環節回答各位問題。

Our business, throughout the first quarter, remained resilient. Typically, we would expect to see manufacturing seasonality, as many consumer and corporate products wind down at the end of the calendar year. This year, we saw such seasonality in our EMS business, while demand for our ATM services did not slow at all. Even with less working days during the first quarter, our ATM revenues grew sequentially. We experienced continued strength in our LEAP services and traditional advanced packaging, while our wirebond also saw some pickup.

我們第一季整體業務維持韌性。一般而言，由於許多消費性與企業產品在曆年年底進入收尾，我們通常會看到製造端的季節性。今年，我們在 EMS 業務看到此一季節性，但 ATM 服務需求完全沒有放緩。即使第一季工作天數較少，我們的 ATM 營收仍較前一季成長。我們的 LEAP 服務與傳統先進封裝持續強勁，同時打線（wirebond）也出現一些回升。

As our product mix shifts, typical seasonality may become more muted as AI-related products do not appear to follow the same seasonal patterns as typical consumer-driven devices. Our blended factory utilization rate was around 80% for the quarter. This percentage can be slightly misleading. Loading was actually a little better. However, we have been installing additional LEAP manufacturing capacities that are expected to start generating revenues weighted towards the fourth quarter.

隨著產品組合轉變，典型季節性可能會更不明顯，因為 AI 相關產品似乎不遵循一般由消費性裝置驅動的季節模式。本季我們的整體工廠稼動率約為 80%。這個比例可能略具誤導性。實際投片／載入狀況其實稍微更好。然而，我們一直在裝設新增的 LEAP 產能，預期將自第四季起較為明顯地開始貢獻營收。

We are also consolidating traditional capacities. These transitional activities would naturally bring down the blended utilization rates. As production resources get tighter, it needs to be emphasized that customers prefer manufacturing certainty. They like to know precisely the timing and pricing of wafers, substrates, packaging and testing services.

我們也在整併傳統產能。這些過渡性作業自然會拉低整體稼動率。當生產資源趨於吃緊時，需要強調的是，客戶偏好製造確定性。他們希望能精準掌握晶圓、基板、封裝與測試服務的時程與價格。

As uncertainties arise at key manufacturing points, customers perceive supply chain risk for their products. Our capacities along with those of our upstream foundry partners are finite with limited ability to be pulled forward at this point. With that said, we are seeing strength not only in our LEAP-related capacities, we are also seeing strong demand in wirebond and traditional advanced packaging.

當關鍵製造環節出現不確定性時，客戶會感受到其產品的供應鏈風險。我們的產能以及上游晶圓代工夥伴的產能皆為有限，目前能提前拉動的空間也有限。即便如此，我們不僅在 LEAP 相關產能看到強勁動能，也在打線與傳統先進封裝看到強勁需求。

From a financial perspective, first quarter ATM revenues came in slightly ahead of our expectations. We saw slight pickups throughout our customer base, especially as it relates to computing-related products. We also saw incremental improvement in our profitability due to this pickup, with gross margin outpacing our original expectations. Our EMS business slowed slightly due to underlying product seasonality as per our original expectations.

從財務面來看，第一季 ATM 營收略高於我們的預期。我們在整體客戶群中看到些微回升，尤其與運算相關的產品更為明顯。受惠於此回升，我們的獲利能力也有小幅改善，毛利率優於原先預期。我們的 EMS 業務則如原先預期，因產品季節性而略為放緩。

Please turn to page 3, where you will find our first quarter consolidated results. For the first quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of TWD3.08 and basic EPS of TWD3.24. Consolidated net revenues were TWD173.7 billion, representing a decrease of 2% sequentially and an increase of 17% year-over-year.

請翻到第 3 頁，您將看到第一季合併財務結果。第一季我們的完全稀釋每股盈餘為新台幣 3.08 元，基本每股盈餘為新台幣 3.24 元。合併淨營收為新台幣 1,737 億元，較前一季減少 2%，較去年同期增加 17%。

On a US dollar basis, our sales decreased by 4% sequentially and increased by 22% year-over-year. Our gross profit was TWD34.8 billion with a gross margin of 20.1%. Our gross margin improved by 0.6 percentage-points sequentially and by 3.3 percentage-points year-over-year. The sequential improvement in margin is primarily due to NT dollar depreciation.

以美元計價，我們的銷售額較前一季減少 4%，較去年同期增加 22%。毛利為新台幣 348 億元，毛利率為 20.1%。毛利率較前一季提升 0.6 個百分點，較去年同期提升 3.3 個百分點。毛利率的季增主要來自新台幣貶值。

The annual improvement is primarily due to a higher mix of ATM revenue in addition to higher ATM factory utilization, offset in part by the annual appreciation of the NT dollar. We estimate that foreign exchange had a positive 0.6 percentage-point impact to our gross margin sequentially and a negative 1.2 percentage-point impact annually.

年度改善主要來自 ATM 營收占比提高以及 ATM 工廠稼動率提升，但部分被新台幣年度升值所抵銷。我們估計匯率因素對毛利率的影響：季比為正向 0.6 個百分點，年比為負向 1.2 個百分點。

Our operating expenses increased by TWD0.3 billion sequentially and TWD2.1 billion annually to TWD17.3 billion. The sequential increase in operating expenses is primarily due to higher R&D labor-related costs. Meanwhile, the annual increase is primarily due to higher R&D labor-related costs and to lesser extent, R&D supplies and other non-R&D labor-related expenses.

營業費用較前一季增加新台幣 3 億元，較去年同期增加新台幣 21 億元，達新台幣 173 億元。營業費用的季增主要來自研發人力相關成本增加。同時，年度增加主要亦來自研發人力相關成本提高，並在較小程度上來自研發耗材及其他非研發人力相關費用。

Our operating expense percentage eased 0.4 percentage-points sequentially to 10% and declined 0.3 percentage-points annually. Operating profit was TWD17.5 billion, down TWD0.2 billion sequentially and up TWD7.9 billion year-over-year. Operating margin was 10.1%, up 0.2 percentage-points sequentially and up 3.6 percentage-points year-over-year.

營業費用率較前一季下降 0.4 個百分點至 10%，並較去年同期下降 0.3 個百分點。營業利益為新台幣 175 億元，較前一季減少新台幣 2 億元，較去年同期增加新台幣 79 億元。營業利益率為 10.1%，較前一季上升 0.2 個百分點，較去年同期上升 3.6 個百分點。

During the quarter, we had a net nonoperating gain of TWD0.7 billion. Our nonoperating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities offset in part by net interest expense of TWD1.6 billion. Tax expense for the quarter was TWD3.6 billion. Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 20.0%. Net income for the quarter was TWD14.1 billion, representing a 4% decline sequentially of TWD0.6 billion and an 87% increase annually of TWD6.6 billion.

本季我們的非營業淨收益為新台幣 7 億元。本季非營業收益主要由外匯避險活動的淨收益構成，但部分被新台幣 16 億元的淨利息費用所抵銷。本季所得稅費用為新台幣 36 億元。本季有效稅率為 20.0%。本季淨利為新台幣 141 億元，較前一季減少新台幣 6 億元、下降 4%，較去年同期增加新台幣 66 億元、成長 87%。

On page 4 is a graphical presentation of our consolidated quarterly financial performance. The chart effectively shows the impact of ATM business growth and its impact to our consolidated holding company-level results. For the first quarter this year, our ATM business represented 65% of our consolidated holding company revenue while representing 91% of our operating profit. This is compared to 58% of consolidated holding company revenue while representing 86% operating profit in the first quarter last year.

第 4 頁為我們合併季度財務表現的圖形化呈現。該圖清楚顯示 ATM 業務成長及其對我們合併控股公司層級結果的影響。今年第一季，ATM 業務占我們合併控股公司營收的 65%，但占營業利益的 91%。相較之下，去年第一季 ATM 業務占合併控股公司營收的 58%，占營業利益的 86%。

On page 5 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. For the first quarter of 2026, we had record revenues for our ATM business of TWD112.4 billion, up TWD2.7 billion from the previous quarter and up TWD25.8 billion from the same period last year. This represents an increase of 2% sequentially and 30% annually.

第 5 頁為我們的 ATM 損益表。此處揭露的 ATM 營收包含在控股公司層級因 ATM 與 EMS 業務間公司內交易而沖銷的營收。2026 年第一季，我們 ATM 業務營收創新高，達新台幣 1,124 億元，較前一季增加新台幣 27 億元，較去年同期增加新台幣 258 億元。這代表較前一季成長 2%，較去年同期成長 30%。

Our ATM business was able to avoid a seasonal decline in revenue during the first quarter upsiding our original expectations. We also delivered higher-than-expected margin performance via improved profitability from higher utilization of equipment. However, we were unable to avoid the higher running costs during the Lunar New Year holidays.

我們的 ATM 業務在第一季得以避免營收的季節性下滑，表現優於我們原先的預期。我們也透過設備使用率提升所帶來的獲利改善，交出高於預期的毛利率表現。然而，我們仍無法避免農曆新年假期期間較高的營運成本。

Gross profit for our ATM business was TWD29.2 billion, up TWD0.4 billion sequentially and up TWD9.6 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 26%, down 0.3 percentage-points sequentially and up 3.4 percentage-points year-over-year.

我們 ATM 業務的毛利為新台幣 292 億元，季增新台幣 4 億元，年增新台幣 96 億元。我們 ATM 業務的毛利率為 26%，季減 0.3 個百分點，年增 3.4 個百分點。

The sequential gross margin decline was primarily due to a higher rate of labor during the Lunar New Year holiday and also a higher percentage of depreciation from preparing equipment for further expansion. These negative impacts were mostly offset by a positive foreign exchange environment and efficiencies from higher loading. Meanwhile, the annual gross margin improvement was primarily due to higher factory utilization and a higher LEAP product mix, offset in part by negative foreign currency impact.

毛利率的季減主要是因農曆新年假期期間勞動成本比率較高，以及為進一步擴產而準備設備所導致折舊占比提高。上述負面影響多數被有利的外匯環境以及更高稼動率帶來的效率提升所抵銷。同時，毛利率的年增主要來自工廠稼動率提升與 LEAP 產品組合占比提高，但部分被不利的外幣影響所抵銷。

As a note, during this year, we see our depreciation rising faster than revenues as a result of our ongoing investments in LEAP. The granularity of our OS and full-process LEAP equipment differs from our more traditional advanced packaging lines.

補充說明，今年我們看到折舊增速快於營收，係因我們持續投資於 LEAP。我們的 OS 與全流程 LEAP 設備在細分程度上，與較傳統的先進封裝產線有所不同。

Our LEAP lines must be installed at scale and together as a full set of differing machinery instead of small incremental units like wirebonders and testers. This results in our LEAP lines taking a greater amount of time to bring up and tune when compared with more traditional packaging capacities.

我們的 LEAP 產線必須以規模化方式安裝，並以一整套不同機台的完整配置共同導入，而非像打線機與測試機那樣以小幅增量單位逐步擴充。因此，相較於較傳統的封裝產能，我們的 LEAP 產線在導入與調校上需要更長的時間。

Currently, our full-process LEAP lines are in the midst of tuning and qualification. As a result, we will continue to see gradually increasing depreciation without significant amounts of associated revenue during the tuning and qualification period. Meanwhile, revenues associated with these full process lines will ramp mostly during the fourth quarter.

目前，我們的全流程 LEAP 產線正處於調校與認證階段。因此，在調校與認證期間，我們將持續看到折舊逐步增加，但不會有大量相對應的營收貢獻。同時，與這些全流程產線相關的營收將主要在第四季開始放量。

With that said, we continue to believe our margins will increase sequentially quarter-over-quarter and reach the higher end of our structural margins by the end of the year. During the first quarter, operating expenses were TWD13.3 billion, up TWD0.6 billion sequentially and TWD2 billion year-over-year. The sequential and annual increases in operating expenses are primarily related to higher overall R&D costs and labor expenses.

儘管如此，我們仍相信毛利率將逐季提升，並在年底達到我們結構性毛利率區間的高端。第一季營業費用為新台幣 133 億元，季增新台幣 6 億元，年增新台幣 20 億元。營業費用的季增與年增主要與整體研發成本及人力費用上升有關。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 11.8%, increasing 0.2 percentage-points sequentially and down 1.2 percentage-points annually. The sequential increase was primarily due to relatively higher R&D labor costs. The annual decline was primarily due to higher revenues generating a higher operating leverage during the quarter.

本季營業費用率為 11.8%，季增 0.2 個百分點，年減 1.2 個百分點。季增主要是因研發人力成本相對較高。年減主要是因營收較高，使本季營運槓桿提升。

During the first quarter, operating profit was TWD15.9 billion representing a sequential 1% decline of TWD0.2 billion and a 90% annual increase of TWD7.5 billion. Operating margin was 14.1% down, 0.6 percentage-points sequentially, while up 4.5 percentage-points year-over-year.

第一季營業利益為新台幣 159 億元，較前一季減少 1%（新台幣 2 億元），較去年同期增加 90%（新台幣 75 億元）。營業利益率為 14.1%，季減 0.6 個百分點，年增 4.5 個百分點。

On page 6, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. The chart highlights the improvement in our gross profit margin. It should be noted here that our second and third quarter 2025 margins were heavily impacted by NT dollar strengthening.

在第 6 頁，您會看到我們 ATM 損益表的圖形化呈現。該圖表突顯我們毛利率的改善。需要注意的是，我們 2025 年第二季與第三季的毛利率受到新台幣升值的顯著影響。

On page 7 is our ATM revenue by the 3C market segments. LEAP services are primarily used within our Computing applications, with a lesser amount being used in the Communications applications for infrastructure hardware. As can be seen here, the Computing application percentage has been growing steadily with our Communications segment declining. Our Automotive, Consumer and Others application appears to be consistently growing in line with our overall ATM growth.

第 7 頁為我們 ATM 依 3C 市場區隔的營收。LEAP 服務主要用於我們的運算（Computing）應用，另有較少部分用於通訊（Communications）應用中的基礎設施硬體。如圖所示，運算應用占比持續穩定成長，而通訊區隔則呈下降。我們的車用、消費性及其他應用看起來也隨著整體 ATM 成長而持續增加。

On page 8, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. We did not see any meaningful changes here during the quarter. On page 9, you can see the first quarter results of our EMS business. During the quarter, EMS revenues were down 10% sequentially and 1% annually to TWD61.9 billion. Sequentially, our EMS business's gross margin increased by 0.5 percentage-points to 9.5%. This change was principally the result of product mix.

第 8 頁為我們 ATM 依服務類型的營收。本季在此並未看到任何顯著變化。第 9 頁則可看到我們 EMS 業務第一季的結果。本季 EMS 營收季減 10%、年減 1%，至新台幣 619 億元。就季比而言，我們 EMS 業務毛利率提高 0.5 個百分點至 9.5%。此變化主要是產品組合所致。

Operating expenses within our EMS business decreased by TWD0.3 billion sequentially and increased by TWD0.1 billion annually. The sequential decline is primarily the result of lower profit sharing during the quarter. The slight increase annually is primarily attributable to higher R&D headcount.

我們 EMS 業務的營業費用季減新台幣 3 億元，年增新台幣 1 億元。季減主要是本季分紅較少所致。年增幅度不大，主要歸因於研發人力增加。

Our first quarter EMS operating expense percentage of 6.4% was up 0.2 percentage-points sequentially and 0.1 percentage-point annually. The sequential and annual operating expense percentage increases are due to underlying product revenue seasonality relative to more stable operating expenses.

第一季 EMS 營業費用率為 6.4%，季增 0.2 個百分點，年增 0.1 個百分點。營業費用率的季增與年增，係因產品營收的季節性波動，相對於較為穩定的營業費用所致。

Operating margin for the quarter was 3.1%, up 0.3 percentage-points sequentially and 0.5 percentage-points year-over-year. The higher operating margins are primarily the result of product mix. Our EMS first quarter operating profit was TWD1.9 billion, down TWD0.1 billion sequentially and up TWD0.3 billion annually.

本季營業利益率為 3.1%，季增 0.3 個百分點，年增 0.5 個百分點。較高的營業利益率主要是產品組合所致。我們 EMS 第一季營業利益為新台幣 19 億元，季減新台幣 1 億元，年增新台幣 3 億元。

On the bottom of the page, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. The Communications applications decline is primarily due to underlying product seasonality. The Computing applications increase is primarily due to a pickup in new AI accelerator products.

在頁面下方，您會看到我們 EMS 依應用別的營收圖形化呈現。通訊應用的下滑主要是基礎產品季節性所致。運算應用的成長主要是新 AI 加速器產品需求回升所帶動。

On page 10, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the year, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of TWD114 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt decreased by TWD7.6 billion to TWD265.3 billion. Total unused credit lines amounted to TWD419.4 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was TWD38.2 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was 40%.

第 10 頁列示我們資產負債表的主要科目。截至年底，我們的現金、約當現金及流動金融資產為新台幣 1,140 億元。我們的有息負債總額減少新台幣 76 億元至新台幣 2,653 億元。未動用授信額度合計為新台幣 4,194 億元。本季 EBITDA 為新台幣 382 億元。本季淨負債對權益比為 40%。

On page 11, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the first quarter in USD totaled $1 billion, of which $636 million was used in packaging operations, $327 million in testing operations, $40 million in EMS operations and $1 million in interconnect materials operations and others. In addition to spending on machinery and equipment, during the quarter, we also spent $771 million on facilities.

第 11 頁為我們設備資本支出相對於 EBITDA 的情況。第一季以美元計的機器設備資本支出合計 10 億美元，其中 6.36 億美元用於封裝營運、3.27 億美元用於測試營運、4,000 萬美元用於 EMS 營運，以及 100 萬美元用於互連材料營運及其他。除機器設備支出外，本季我們亦在廠房設施方面支出 7.71 億美元。

With that, I'll hand the presentation over to Joseph to present the company's outlook.

接下來，我把簡報交給 Joseph，由他說明公司的展望。

Thank you, Ken. Before we get into the guidance for second quarter, I would like to give you a bit of a color for the full year.

謝謝你，Ken。在我們進入第二季指引之前，我想先補充一些關於全年表現的背景說明。

Now first of all, we are upping our CapEx for the year, which includes additional TWD0.9 billion for buildings and infrastructure, as reflected in our recent announcements and an incremental USD0.6 billion in machinery, driven by stronger demand for LEAP services this year and next. The majority of this additional machinery CapEx will be allocated to LEAP, particularly wafer sort, and expect it to be deployed in the fourth quarter to support capacity ramp-up in 2027.

首先，我們正在上調今年的資本支出（CapEx），其中包括額外的新台幣9億元用於廠房與基礎設施（如我們近期公告所反映），以及因今年與明年LEAP服務需求更強而新增的6億美元機台設備投資。這部分新增的機台資本支出大多將配置於LEAP，尤其是晶圓分選（wafer sort），並預期於第四季完成部署，以支援2027年的產能爬坡。

For ATM 2026 revenue, we now expect LEAP services revenue to be around 10% above our prior guidance, reaching over USD3.5 billion, while the mainstream segment remains on track to grow at a similar rate with last year. And for 2027, we continue to see strong LEAP business momentum and expect even stronger incremental revenue growth than this year.

關於ATM 2026年的營收，我們目前預期LEAP服務營收將較先前指引高出約10%，達到超過35億美元；而主流（mainstream）業務仍可望維持與去年相近的成長速度。至於2027年，我們持續看到LEAP業務動能強勁，並預期其新增營收成長將比今年更強。

Lastly, on ATM profitability, our strong market position continues to support a favorable pricing environment throughout the year. We reported first quarter ATM gross margin of 26%, which is ahead of our original expectation of 24.5%. As we continue to expect sequential improvement for ATM margins with second half gross margin to reach the upper end of our structural gross margin range, second quarter gross margin improvement, however, will be partly offset by higher costs associated with early resource deployment for product transitions.

最後，關於ATM獲利能力，我們強勁的市場地位持續支撐全年有利的定價環境。我們第一季ATM毛利率為26%，優於原先預期的24.5%。我們仍預期ATM毛利率將逐季改善，且下半年毛利率可達到我們結構性毛利率區間的上緣；不過，第二季毛利率的改善將部分被產品轉換初期資源提前部署所帶來的較高成本所抵銷。

Now with that, let me give you the second quarter outlook. Based on our current business outlook and exchange rate assumption of USD1 to TWD31.8, management projects overall performance for the second quarter of 2026 to be as follows.

接下來，我來提供第二季展望。基於目前的業務展望，以及美元兌新台幣匯率假設為1美元兌31.8元，管理層對2026年第二季整體表現預估如下。

At the consolidated level, in NT dollar terms, our consolidated second quarter revenue should grow by 7% to 9% quarter-over-quarter. Our consolidated second quarter gross margin should increase by 20 basis points to 100 basis points quarter-over-quarter. Our consolidated second quarter operating margin should increase by 50 basis points to 120 basis points quarter-over-quarter.

以合併層級來看，以新台幣計，合併第二季營收預期季增7%至9%。合併第二季毛利率預期季增20個基點至100個基點。合併第二季營業利益率預期季增50個基點至120個基點。

For ATM, in NT dollar terms, our ATM second quarter revenue should grow by 9% to 11% quarter-over-quarter. And our second quarter gross margin should be between 26% to 27%. For EMS, in NT dollar terms, our EMS second quarter revenue should grow at least 10% year-over-year. Our EMS operating margin should be similar with second quarter 2025 levels.

就ATM而言，以新台幣計，ATM第二季營收預期季增9%至11%。第二季毛利率預期介於26%至27%。就EMS而言，以新台幣計，EMS第二季營收預期至少年增10%。EMS營業利益率預期與2025年第二季水準相近。

With that, I'll open the floor for questions. Thank you.

接下來我開放提問。謝謝。

During the Q&A session that follows, we would appreciate it if your questions could be as clear and concise as possible and asked singularly. We will start by taking questions from.

接下來的問答環節，我們希望各位的問題盡量清楚、精簡，並一次只提一個問題。我們將先從以下對象開始提問。

Participants online. As moderator, I will be receiving each question and repeating and directing each question individually. After a participant's initial question, he or she may ask a follow-up question, clarifications of the earlier question or another question entirely. Then we will move on to the next caller.

線上與會者。作為主持人，我將接收每個問題，並逐一重述與引導每個問題。在與會者提出第一個問題後，可再提出追問、針對先前問題的釐清，或是另一個全新的問題。接著我們會進行到下一位來電者。

So with that, let's see if we have the first call.

那麼，我們來看看是否有第一位來電者。

Gokul Hariharan, JP Morgan.

Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通（JP Morgan）。

Yeah, hi, good afternoon. Great results. Congratulations on that. Thanks for the opportunity, Joseph and Ken. First question is on LEAP. So the 10% upside in LEAP in 2026, could you talk a little bit about what is the reason for that? Is it mainly coming from on substrate and wafer sort or any composition?

是的，你好，午安。成果非常好。恭喜。謝謝提供這個機會，Joseph和Ken。第一個問題是關於LEAP。2026年LEAP較原先指引上修10%，能否談談原因是什麼？主要是來自基板（substrate）與晶圓分選（wafer sort），還是有其他組合因素？

And also just to clarify, '27, you said LEAP could grow at similar kind of stronger incremental revenue growth than this year. So this year is around TWD2 billion incremental revenue based on the new guidance. So are we implying that next year, LEAP can grow at a TWD2 billion plus kind of incremental revenue? Is that how we should read that statement? And any early read on what is the composition of LEAP next year?

另外再釐清一下，關於2027年，你提到LEAP可能會有與今年類似、甚至更強的新增營收成長。依照新的指引，今年新增營收大約是新台幣20億元。所以是否意味著明年LEAP也能有新台幣20億元以上的新增營收？我們應該這樣解讀你的說法嗎？以及對於明年LEAP的組成，有沒有初步看法？

Gokul is looking for clarification on our LEAP guidance for CapEx -- and actually, just primarily on revenue side, right?

Gokul想釐清我們對LEAP的指引與資本支出（CapEx）——其實主要是營收端，對嗎？

Yeah, revenue. Yes. This year and the 10% upside where it's coming from and '27, like the TWD2 billion or more than TWD2 billion incremental revenue. I just want to clarify if that's what you meant.

對，營收。是的。今年以及上修10%的部分是從哪裡來的，還有2027年是否會是新台幣20億元或高於新台幣20億元的新增營收。我只是想確認你們的意思是否如此。

For this year, I think we are seeing a stronger than anticipated demand, particularly in the LEAP's part of the business. And as such, we need to increase our CapEx to support that expansion. And also a lot of the increase of CapEx is really to prepare ourselves for next year's ramp up as well.

就今年而言，我們看到需求強於原先預期，特別是在LEAP這一塊業務。因此，我們需要提高資本支出以支援擴張。此外，資本支出增加的很大一部分，其實也是為了準備明年的產能爬坡。

In terms of momentum, I think both for assembly -- LEAP services, both in terms of assembly and tests, we are growing at pretty much the same pace. And in terms of combination, I think it's about 75% in assembly and 25% in tests. With tests, we have about 75% in wafer sort and 25% in final test.

就動能而言，我認為在LEAP服務中，無論是組裝（assembly）或測試（test），成長速度都差不多。就組合來看，大約是75%來自組裝、25%來自測試。在測試部分，我們約75%是晶圓分選（wafer sort），25%是終測（final test）。

Understood. And on '27, could we talk a little bit about, I think, Joseph, you mentioned incremental growth can be higher than this year. So does that mean that we can grow from the TWD3.5 billion this year to at least TWD5.5 billion next year, is that what you implied?

了解。那關於2027年，我們能否再談一下？我想Joseph你提到新增成長可能會高於今年。所以這是否表示，我們可以從今年的新台幣35億元成長到明年至少新台幣55億元？這是你所暗示的意思嗎？

I'm only implying that we are continuing to see very, very strong momentum going forward into 2027. And the TWD2 billion or TWD1.9 billion is really just to serve as a baseline. In fact, we are -- we can safely expect even stronger momentum than that, although I'm not giving out any particular number at this point.

我只是表示，我們持續看到邁向2027年的動能非常、非常強。而新台幣20億元或19億元只是作為一個基準。事實上，我們可以相當有把握地預期動能會更強，只是目前我不會提供任何特定數字。

Understood. And just within that 2027 LEAP, any context on the full-process CoWoS like or full process for [CoWoS] kind of composition? And are you getting -- do you think that you will have some accelerator related -- AI accelerator-related full process revenue in '27? Or is it going to be mostly like the CPU and some of the other adjacent kind of full process revenue?

了解。另外，在2027年的LEAP之中，關於類似全流程CoWoS或[CoWoS]全流程的組成，有沒有一些背景說明？以及你們是否認為在2027年會有一些與加速器相關——AI加速器相關的全流程營收？還是主要會像是CPU以及其他相鄰領域的全流程營收？

I think right now, the full process is going on track, and we still believe that we can reach this TWD300 million revenue mark for this year. As we continue to expand that part of the capacity, I think, for next year, we can see quite substantial growth in that area as well.

我認為目前全流程的進展都在軌道上，我們仍相信今年可以達到新台幣3億元的營收目標。隨著我們持續擴充這部分的產能，我認為明年在這個領域也會看到相當可觀的成長。

And also not just on the revenue growth, we are also expanding our customer base in this particular area. And we believe that any other application that will be moving into CoWoS like kind of packages, I think we will be able to entertain those part of the request.

而且不只是營收成長，我們也正在擴大在這個特定領域的客戶基礎。我們相信，任何其他將會轉向採用類似 CoWoS 這類封裝的應用，我想我們都能夠承接並回應那部分的需求。

Understood. My second question is on gross margins, Joseph. You're already reaching probably the higher end of the structural range of gross margin, and you're already like at the midpoint in Q1 and Q2.

了解。我第二個問題是關於毛利率，Joseph。你們已經大概達到結構性毛利率區間的高端，而且在第一季和第二季已經差不多在中位數水準。

Why not raise the structural range of gross margin, given you have higher-margin products coming in next year as well with full process and more testing as well? Like is there anything that is holding you back from kind of raising the gross margin range, structural gross margin range?

既然明年也會有更高毛利的產品導入，並且具備完整製程與更多測試，為什麼不提高結構性毛利率區間？是否有任何因素讓你們無法把結構性毛利率區間往上調？

So Gokul, you're looking for more clarification on the context of our structural margins?

所以，Gokul，你是想更釐清我們所說的結構性毛利率的脈絡，對嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, I think things are moving very fast at this point, and it's very dynamic. And I think we will -- of course, we already said that even in first quarter and second quarter, we are ahead of our original expectation in terms of margin improvement. And we are even more confident that in the second half, we'll be reaching the upper end of the structural margin.

我認為目前事情進展非常快，而且變化很動態。當然，我們也已經說過，即使在第一季與第二季，就毛利改善而言，我們已經超前原先的預期。而且我們更有信心在下半年會達到結構性毛利率的上緣。

But I think at this point, because things are moving very fast, I think we will rather wait until things are more settled. Maybe next year, we will -- we view the situation and see if this is justifiable to revise up our structural margin.

但我想在這個時間點，因為變化太快，我們寧可等到情況更趨於穩定。也許明年我們會再檢視狀況，看看是否有充分理由上修我們的結構性毛利率。

Is there any risk factor that holds you back? Is it just the depreciation growth is very strong? Or is there anything else that is holding you back?

那有沒有什麼風險因素讓你們不敢上修？只是因為折舊成長很強嗎？還是還有其他因素在影響？

Well, I wouldn't call it holding us back. I would say that because as Ken is mentioning, right now, the investment or the CapEx that we put in are in pretty large chunks rather than -- for we can incrementally add capacity.

我不會稱之為在限制我們。我會說，正如 Ken 提到的，目前我們投入的投資或資本支出（CapEx）通常是以相當大的批次進行，而不是——不是那種可以逐步、增量地擴充產能。

So -- and before the capacity is fully ramped up, it's kind of -- that normally creates a some of -- some pressure on the margin during the ramp-up stage. So it's -- we need to wait until a more steady state kind of situation before we can find the suitable range for margin.

因此——在產能尚未完全爬坡到位之前，通常在爬坡階段會對毛利率造成一些——一些壓力。所以——我們需要等到更接近穩態的情況，才能找出合適的毛利率區間。

Got it. You can leave some more good news for later. Thank you. I'll go back to the queue.

了解。你們可以留一些好消息之後再說。謝謝。我回到排隊序列。

Right.

好的。

Sunny Lin, UBS.

UBS 的 Sunny Lin。

Good. Could you hear me okay? Yes. Thank you very much for taking my questions. Congrats on the very strong results. So my first question is actually to get your thoughts on CPO. And so would you be able to share a bit more color on what will be the role that ASE can play for CPOs packaging and test? And how should we think about the revenue opportunity ASE from CPO? And when would you expect the sales to start to contribute to ASE from CPO?

你好。你聽得到我說話嗎？可以。非常感謝讓我提問。恭喜你們交出非常強勁的成績。我第一個問題其實是想請教你們對 CPO 的看法。你們是否能多分享一些 ASE 在 CPO 封裝與測試上可以扮演的角色？我們應該如何看待 CPO 對 ASE 的營收機會？你們預期 CPO 的銷售何時會開始對 ASE 產生貢獻？

So Sunny's first question refers to the context of CPO and the various financial aspects of that, right?

所以 Sunny 的第一個問題是在 CPO 的脈絡下，以及其各項財務面向，對嗎？

Yes, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

We are working very closely with the foundry as well as our customer, the end customer in terms of the development of CPO. Right now, we don't have a number for it. But what I can say is once it gets into volume scale, we would definitely be a very, very critical partner within the overall effort. And I think things are moving on track, and we continue to make progress on this CPO development.

我們正與晶圓代工廠以及我們的客戶、終端客戶，在 CPO 的開發上非常密切合作。目前我們還沒有相關數字。但我可以說的是，一旦進入量產規模，我們絕對會是整體推動工作中非常、非常關鍵的合作夥伴。我認為進度都在軌道上，我們也持續在這項 CPO 開發上取得進展。

Got it. So may I follow up? And so one, what will be the timeline that you start to expect revenue contribution? And then secondly, in terms of packaging and test, what may be the role that [ASE] may play if you could share a bit more details?

了解。那我可以追問一下嗎？第一，你們預期何時開始有營收貢獻的時間表？第二，就封裝與測試而言，如果可以的話，能否再多分享一些 [ASE] 可能扮演的角色細節？

No, I don't have that much of a detail, except we will start with the packaging part of it and eventually -- because the test is more complicated than the regular chips that we are testing now. So I think things -- we'll have to sync up our technology road map with our partners and also our customers to find the most suitable work combination between the three of us. And whatever happens, it will be a natural division of works for each of us to do what we do best.

不，我沒有那麼多細節；不過我們會先從封裝的部分開始，然後最終——因為測試比我們現在測的一般晶片更複雜。所以我想——我們必須與合作夥伴以及客戶同步我們的技術路線圖，找出我們三方之間最合適的工作組合。不論如何，最終會是很自然的分工，各自做自己最擅長的事。

Thank you very much. And my second question is on CapEx. And so now with the higher CapEx for this year, capital intensity should be above 30%. And so how should we think about the capital intensity for the coming maybe 1 to 2 years? Should we expect given a very strong demand, you need to continue to accelerate capacity expansion and therefore, capital intensity will remain high at about 30%? Or should we think about maybe in 2027, given the revenue generation, maybe CapEx will start to slow in terms of intensity? How should we think about the growth between the sales and CapEx?

非常感謝。我第二個問題是關於資本支出（CapEx）。今年 CapEx 較高的情況下，資本強度應該會高於 30%。那未來 1 到 2 年的資本強度我們應該怎麼看？在需求非常強勁之下，是否預期你們需要持續加速擴產，因此資本強度會維持在約 30% 的高檔？或者我們應該預期到 2027 年，隨著營收產生，CapEx 的強度可能會開始放緩？我們應該如何看待營收成長與 CapEx 之間的關係？

Sunny, you're looking for clarification on our CapEx trend going forward and the capital intensity involved, right?

Sunny，你是想釐清我們未來的 CapEx 走勢以及相關的資本強度，對嗎？

Yeah.

對。

Well, we're still in this megatrend, and we're certainly not going to be shy about making the necessary investments, not only just on the capacity itself but also on the R&D spending that we need to put in. And from the momentum that we're seeing now, I would expect a pretty heavy CapEx for this and maybe even going into next year.

我們仍處在這個大趨勢之中，我們當然不會在必要投資上畏縮，不僅是產能本身，也包括我們需要投入的研發支出。以我們目前看到的動能來看，我預期今年會有相當高的 CapEx，甚至可能延續到明年。

Although, as I said, things are moving very fast and there's a lot of variables in front of us, I cannot give you a number at this point. But I will say that we will be making the necessary investments, and we do have multiple cost-effective funding sources that we can leverage on to continue to support the CapEx requirement that we'll be facing for this year, also next year.

不過，如我所說，變化很快，眼前也有很多變數，我現在無法給你一個數字。但我可以說，我們會進行必要的投資，而且我們也有多個具成本效益的資金來源可以運用，以持續支援我們今年以及明年的 CapEx 需求。

Thank you. So if I may have a follow-up. And so earlier, you mentioned lots of capacity expansions [throughout] this year for the output from Q4. So would it be fair to say, therefore, LEAP, we should expect a pretty meaningful step up in terms of revenue going to Q4, and that should meaningfully improve your gross margin on a sequential basis?

謝謝。那我可以再追問一下嗎？你先前提到今年會有很多產能擴充，並在第四季開始產出。那是否可以合理地說，因此 LEAP，我們應該預期第四季營收會有相當明顯的跳升，並且在季比的基礎上顯著改善你們的毛利率？

So while the direction is upward in the coming few quarters, but in terms of magnitude, should we expect a pretty meaningful expansion from Q3 into Q4, given a lot stronger LEAP growth?

所以雖然未來幾個季度的方向是向上，但就幅度而言，考量到 LEAP 成長更強，從 Q3 到 Q4 我們是否應該預期會有相當明顯的擴張？

Sunny, first of all, I don't see how that's a follow-up. But I guess I'll let you ask it. For -- you're looking for basically what type of trend we're looking at in terms of LEAP, given that we're upping the outlook currently? Is that probably the right summary of that?

Sunny，首先，我看不出這怎麼會是追問。不過我想我還是讓你問。所以——你基本上是在問，在我們目前上調展望的情況下，就 LEAP 而言，我們看到的趨勢大概會是什麼樣子？這樣總結應該對吧？

Yeah, sure. Thank you, Ken.

對，沒錯。謝謝你，Ken。

Yes. I think from the get go, I was saying that we're still expecting a very strong year going into 2027 as well, particularly in the LEAP services, we see -- we do see the need to up our CapEx to support that momentum.

是的。我想從一開始我就說過，我們仍然預期一路到 2027 年也會是非常強勁的一年，特別是在 LEAP 服務方面，我們看到——我們確實看到需要提高資本支出（CapEx）來支撐這股動能。

And I think I already answered Gokul's questions that we are -- right now, we're expecting even stronger incremental revenue growth for next year in terms of LEAP. And whatever that we're seeing this year, the incremental revenue will serve as a baseline for us. And we do see further potential for further upside.

而且我想我也已經回答了 Gokul 的問題：就 LEAP 而言，我們目前預期明年的增量營收成長會更強。今年我們所看到的增量營收，將會成為我們的基準。我們也看到進一步上行的潛力。

Very clear. Thank you very much.

非常清楚。非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Laura Chen of Citi Online.

花旗線上（Citi Online）的 Laura Chen。

Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Can you hear me?

是的。嗨，午安。聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

聽得到。

Yeah. Thank you for taking my questions. My question is also regarding our LEAP advanced packaging progress. We know that [NC] also build up your own full process. So I'm just wondering that for our like TWD3.2 billion and even stronger growth into next year, how should we think about that, the full process of our LEAP business? And what would be the gross margin profile comparing to the substrate part?

好的。謝謝讓我提問。我的問題也與我們 LEAP 先進封裝的進展有關。我們知道 [NC] 也在建立你們自己的全流程。所以我想請教，對於我們約新台幣 32 億元、以及明年更強的成長，我們應該如何看待 LEAP 業務的全流程？另外，相較於載板（substrate）部分，其毛利率輪廓會是如何？

So Laura, you're looking for more expansion on our full process business opportunities. Is that correct?

所以 Laura，你是希望我們多談一些全流程業務機會的擴展。是這樣嗎？

Yes. Yes. And what's the percentage? And also what's the gross margin profile?

是的。是的。以及占比是多少？還有毛利率輪廓是什麼？

Thank you. I think we -- like I said, we are on track at whatever capacity that we're putting in and the customer engagement that we are having at this point. We do see very good potential going forward as we have multiple customers requesting for this kind of capacity. But this is a very complex process that we need to go through, and we are in the midst of trying to tune up capacity as well as the yield that we can generate.

謝謝。我想我們——如我所說，就我們目前投入的產能以及此刻與客戶的互動而言，我們都在按計畫推進。由於有多家客戶要求這類產能，我們確實看到未來非常好的潛力。但這是一個非常複雜的流程，我們需要逐步走完，目前也正在調校產能以及我們能夠達成的良率。

So we're going to take one step at a time at this point in time, although we do see a very good potential, but we want to be cautious in making the -- making this part of the business with a very good execution. And so at this point, I think it's not very easy for us to say, to give you a number for the business for next year. But all I can say is we do see very good potential and it's just a matter of how we can quickly execute the expansion plan.

因此在這個時間點，我們會一步一步來；雖然我們看到非常好的潛力，但我們希望謹慎推進——把這一塊業務以很好的執行力做起來。所以在目前階段，我想我們不太容易給你一個明年這項業務的數字。但我能說的是，我們確實看到非常好的潛力，接下來就是看我們能多快把擴產計畫執行到位。

Sure. That's fair. Very clear. And also my following question is just wondering that as we see that many of your clients or the AI chip makers, they are looking for various, different back-end support, including the panel base or a large -- like radical support for -- from the OS, not just at the foundry side. So I'm just wondering that how is the progress at ASE on the panel base? And how would you think about these business opportunities in your LEAP revenue?

了解。這樣很合理。非常清楚。另外我接著想問的是，因為我們看到你們許多客戶或 AI 晶片製造商，他們在尋求各式各樣、不同的後段支援，包括 panel base 或更大——像是大尺寸的支援——來自 OS（封測）端，而不只是晶圓代工端。所以我想請教 ASE 在 panel base 方面的進展如何？以及你們如何看待這些業務機會在你們 LEAP 營收中的貢獻？

Laura, you're looking for our opportunities in terms of supporting large radical size?

Laura，你是在問我們在支援更大 reticle 尺寸方面的機會？

[]Manufacturing Yeah, and right.

[]製造 對，沒錯。

Yes, the panel based like the reticle that kind of packaging design. Thanks.

是的，就是 panel-based 的、像 reticle 那種封裝設計。謝謝。

Yeah. On panel, I think we're also on track. And right now, we have already installed a fully automated pilot line for customer qualification. We do expect to have -- starting with small -- mass production volume starting from next year. And we'll see how it goes from there and that point on.

是的。關於 panel，我想我們也在按計畫推進。目前我們已經安裝了一條全自動化的試產線，用於客戶認證。我們預期——會先從小量開始——明年起開始有量產規模。之後就再看進展情況。

And I think in terms of the panel, right now, is still at its early stage. It is something that's going to happen. But it's -- we're still at the early stage of the overall development and the -- how the industry infrastructure will be built remains to be -- there's still some work to be done going forward. Yes, there is potential for that. And if anything else, we'll be the first to start the capacity ramp-up.

另外我想就 panel 而言，目前仍處於早期階段。這是會發生的事情。但——我們仍在整體開發的早期階段，而產業基礎設施將如何建置，仍然——後續還有一些工作要做。是的，這方面有潛力。如果有任何進一步發展，我們會是第一個開始進行產能爬坡的。

Sure. Then we'll wait for more details. Thank you.

了解。那我們就等待更多細節。謝謝。

Charles Cheng, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利（Morgan Stanley）的 Charles Cheng。

Hi, Joseph. Hi, Ken. How are you? And also congratulations for very strong results and guidance.

嗨，Joseph。嗨，Ken。你們好嗎？也恭喜你們有非常強勁的業績與財測指引。

My first question is actually the non-AI or so-called border semi. So over the past three months, do you see smartphone consumer semi demand bottling out or it can deteriorates?

我第一個問題其實是關於非 AI、或所謂的邊緣半導體（border semi）。過去三個月，你們是否看到智慧型手機、消費性半導體需求已經觸底，還是可能進一步惡化？

Because we are getting a little bit confused why some material foundry are hiking with a price and Texas instrument also suggests that they want to hike the price, but overall market demands are so weak. So just want to get some thoughts from management. Thank you.

因為我們有點困惑：為什麼有些材料相關的晶圓代工廠在調漲價格，德州儀器（Texas Instruments）也表示想要漲價，但整體市場需求卻很疲弱。想請管理層分享一些看法。謝謝。

Charlie, you're looking for some characterization of our non-LEAP related revenues and how we view that going forward, right?

Charlie，你是想要我們描述一下非 LEAP 相關營收的狀況，以及我們對未來的看法，對嗎？

Yeah, exactly. And also, the tendency, whether it's getting better or getting worse and how ASE kind of benefit or suffer from those incremental trends? Thank you.

對，完全正確。也想了解趨勢是變好還是變差，以及 ASE 會如何從這些邊際趨勢中受益或受影響？謝謝。

I mentioned earlier on that we are maintaining -- I think the general market revenue growth, if we will maintaining the same guidance as we made last quarter, which is a repeat of last year's growth rate of about 13%. And yes, we do see that the PC and cellphone market softness continues, and it seems to be softening a bit more.

我先前提到，我們維持——我想一般市場的營收成長，我們會維持與上季相同的指引，也就是重複去年的成長率，大約 13%。是的，我們確實看到 PC 與手機市場的疲弱仍在持續，而且看起來又更疲弱了一些。

But on the other hand, I think a lot of the softness is being picked up by the more IC content in devices, different devices. We are seeing the AI peripheral chips emerging, and we are seeing good recoveries in terms of Automotive and Industrial segment. So put everything together, I think we're still very, very confident that we will repeat our last year's growth in terms of general market.

但另一方面，我認為相當一部分的疲弱，正被裝置中更高的 IC 含量、以及不同裝置所帶動的需求所吸收。我們看到 AI 周邊晶片正在浮現，同時在車用與工業領域也看到不錯的復甦。所以綜合來看，我們仍然非常、非常有信心，一般市場的成長能夠重複去年的表現。

I see. So can I clarify it with Joseph, what did you mean by the AI peripheral chips? We do have some stance, but I just want to get some clarification from Joseph?

我了解。那我可以跟 Joseph 確認一下嗎，你所說的 AI 周邊晶片是指什麼？我們確實有一些看法，但我只是想從 Joseph 那邊再釐清一下？

They are power-related connectivity, sensors, all different kinds of edge devices that we'll be using or the -- which we don't -- we were dividing this general market with LEAP. So it's not in industry segment per se, kind of a differentiation or segmentation. We're just only looking at the process itself to decide what's the general market for us.

它們是與電源相關的連接、感測器，以及各式各樣我們會使用的邊緣裝置——或者說我們不——我們原本是把這個整體市場與 LEAP 做區分。所以它本身不算是產業別的區隔，而比較像是一種差異化或分眾。我們只是從製程本身來看，去決定對我們而言什麼是一般市場。

I see. Thanks for the clarification. And my second question is actually about your pricing strategy. I mean, you're investing heavily. But there is also some cost increase from the recent geopolitical events, right? So I just wanted to get a sense, what's your prediction for your fab utilization in the coming quarters? And would you -- that circle tightenings into further pricing power to your customers?

了解。謝謝你的說明。我第二個問題其實是關於你們的定價策略。我的意思是，你們投入很大。但最近的地緣政治事件也帶來一些成本上升，對吧？所以我想了解一下，你們對未來幾季晶圓廠稼動率的預測是什麼？以及你們——這種供需收緊是否會轉化為對客戶更強的定價能力？

So I believe, Charlie, you're asking what the impact of recent political volatility would be on our pricing and then also different components that go into what we do, what our pricing strategy is relative to our services that we provide. Is that correct?

所以我相信，Charlie，你是在問近期政治波動對我們定價的影響，另外也包括構成我們業務的不同要素、以及相對於我們所提供服務的定價策略。是這樣嗎？

Yeah, so, yeah, thanks, Ken. Yeah, so maybe it's more like from a strategic perspective. One is that you can just passively pass through those additional costs. Like you said, right, there's increase in energy costs or chemical costs. I'm not sure how much of a chemical cost you have an exposure to. Or I think it differently, right? Your fab in the coming quarters if the utilization continue to be getting higher and you feel like is sustainable. So why don't you further kind of hike the price and it's more like proactive price hike?

對，對，謝謝你，Ken。對，所以也許更偏策略面的問題。一種作法是你可以被動地把這些額外成本轉嫁出去。就像你說的，能源成本或化學品成本上升。我不確定你們在化學品成本上曝險有多大。或者我換個角度想，對吧？你們未來幾季的廠房稼動率如果持續走高，而且你們覺得是可持續的。那為什麼不進一步把價格往上調，做更主動的漲價？

Well, I can never give you a direct answer on whether we're going to raise our prices or not. What I can say is we will continue to seek for the suitable pricing strategy, given the situation and also considering the customer relationships that we need to maintain. Also, we will set the pricing to reflect the margin requirement that we will have for ourselves.

嗯，我不可能直接回答你我們會不會漲價。我能說的是，我們會在考量情勢、以及需要維持的客戶關係之下，持續尋求合適的定價策略。同時，我們也會設定能反映我們自身毛利要求的價格。

I see.

了解。

Whatever the cost increase there is because of the market uncertainties, those can be fully passed through. And also, at the same time, we will continue to set the pricing to reach our margin requirement.

不論因市場不確定性而產生的成本增加為何，這些都可以完全轉嫁出去。同時，我們也會持續設定價格以達到我們的毛利要求。

Thank you. It's very clear. Thanks, Joseph.

謝謝。非常清楚。謝謝你，Joseph。

Haas Liu, Bofa.

Haas Liu，Bofa。

Thank you. Thanks, Joseph, Ken, and Iris for taking my questions and congrats on the solid results and guidance. I guess my first question is also a follow-up on the near-term guidance. Just want to get more clarity regarding your view on what is going to be the key driver for second quarter sequential growth for your IC ATM business? Would you be able to quantify it between LEAP versus traditional business on the growth momentum?

謝謝。謝謝 Joseph、Ken 和 Iris 回答我的問題，也恭喜你們有穩健的業績與展望指引。我想我的第一個問題也是延續你們對短期指引的說法。想更清楚了解，你們認為第二季 IC ATM 業務季增的主要驅動因素會是什麼？你們能否量化一下 LEAP 與傳統業務各自的成長動能？

And then I think a quick follow-up also on the full-year outlook for your overall IC ATM business that you did provide more detail on the non-LEAP business and the reason why you are still holding that kind of growth guidance similar to last year. But would you be able to provide the breakdown on the unit and also pricing assumptions for that kind of growth outlook?

另外我也想快速追問一下你們整體 IC ATM 業務的全年展望。你們確實對非 LEAP 業務提供了更多細節，也說明了為什麼仍維持與去年類似的成長指引。但你們能否提供這個成長展望在出貨量以及定價假設上的拆解？

I was just wondering if in the past three months, if there's any like meaningful change on the mix of assumptions on the pricing that you may be able to improve your pricing further or you simply have not yet seen your customers have been cutting their orders at this stage. So I just want to get more clarity on the second quarter and also full-year IC ATM growth momentum between LEAP versus non-LEAP business.

我也想了解過去三個月，你們在定價假設的組合上是否有任何顯著變化——例如你們可能可以進一步改善定價，或者你們只是目前還沒看到客戶在這個階段削減訂單。所以我想更清楚了解第二季以及全年 IC ATM 的成長動能，在 LEAP 與非 LEAP 業務之間的差異。

Haas, I believe you're looking for clarity between -- on our guidance relative to LEAP and non-LEAP context. Is that correct?

Haas，我理解你是在尋求我們指引在 LEAP 與非 LEAP 脈絡下的釐清。是這樣嗎？

Yes, on a quarterly basis as well as on the full-year outlook basis. Thanks.

是的，包含季度層面以及全年展望層面。謝謝。

I think second quarter revenue growth is really broad-based. I think both LEAP as well as the general market, we're seeing similar kind of a growth to support the quarterly growth of revenue for us.

我認為第二季營收成長其實是相當全面的。我想不論是 LEAP 或一般市場，我們看到的成長都差不多，足以支撐我們季度營收的成長。

I think the -- as I said, the -- we are more than doubling our LEAP revenue this year. We just upped our LEAP revenue by another 10%, showing the strong momentum that we are seeing at this point. General market, we continue to see same kind of growth rate from last year.

我想——如我所說——我們今年的 LEAP 營收會超過倍增。我們剛把 LEAP 營收再上調了 10%，顯示目前我們看到的強勁動能。一般市場方面，我們持續看到與去年相同的成長率。

And as I tried to explain, I think although we're seeing some softness in some certain segments, we do see that the so-called AI peripheral or AI adjacent type of chips that are being brought on stream, and then we are seeing the demand for those chips are more than offset what we're seeing the softness in these particular segments.

而且如我試著解釋的，雖然我們在某些特定區塊看到一些疲軟，但我們也看到所謂 AI 周邊或 AI 相鄰類型的晶片正在導入量產，且我們看到這些晶片的需求，足以抵消我們在那些特定區塊所看到的疲弱。

Okay. I think just a quick follow-up here is that to my first question is that so you are actually not changing your pricing strategy in the past three months or in the next few quarters to reflect the potentially higher cost on the materials or the labors. And you pretty much -- on an aggregate basis, you are not seeing much of the customers' demand dynamic change in the past three months. Should I just make that kind of assumption for your full-year outlook?

好的。我想快速追問一下我第一個問題：也就是說，你們在過去三個月或接下來幾季，其實沒有改變你們的定價策略來反映材料或人力可能更高的成本。而且整體來看，你們在過去三個月也沒有看到客戶需求動態有太大變化。我是否可以把這樣的假設套用到你們的全年展望？

I'm not sure I quite get your question. Can you --

我不太確定我完全理解你的問題。你可以--

I was just trying to get more clarity that you simply are not seeing any of the order cuts from your customers, even though that the end-market demand, including like smartphone, PC at this stage. And also, the overall end-market demand is just tracking slower.

我只是想更清楚了解：即便終端市場需求（包括智慧型手機、PC）在這個階段偏弱，而且整體終端市場需求只是以較慢的速度在走，你們仍然沒有看到客戶有任何砍單。

But you are seeing incrementally automotive industrial-related demand. And also, some AI peripheral chipsets are making up some of the weakness in the other parts of the market. And so net-net, you are not seeing much of the unit demand weakness versus 3 months ago for your full-year outlook. Is that correct?

但你們看到車用、工業相關需求有增量。另外，一些 AI 周邊晶片組也在彌補市場其他部分的疲弱。因此整體而言，相較三個月前，你們在全年展望上並沒有看到太多出貨量需求轉弱。是這樣嗎？

Yes. Yes.

是的。是的。

Okay. Okay. Yes. And then my second question is on CapEx and also gross margins. Joseph, so you just mentioned that on the CapEx for this year, you raised it by like 20% versus your original guidance. And I understand there is a lead time between your [pulling] equipment and build clean [room] versus it starts to contribute to revenue.

好的。好的。是。那我第二個問題是關於資本支出以及毛利率。Joseph，你剛提到今年的資本支出相較你們原先的指引上調了大約 20%。我理解從你們[拉貨]設備、建置無塵[室]到開始對營收產生貢獻之間是有一段前置時間的。

But would you be able to help us to triangulate that growth rate or the incremental 20% hike versus the 10% hike in your LEAP business for this year? What is the main reason why that you raised your CapEx by 20%, but in the meantime, your LEAP business in general, only being raised by like 10%?

但您是否能協助我們釐清該成長率，或是今年在你們 LEAP 業務中，額外增加 20% 的上調幅度相較於 10% 上調幅度之間的差異？主要原因是什麼，讓你們把資本支出（CapEx）提高 20%，但同時你們的 LEAP 業務整體卻只提高大約 10%？

And on top of that, I was just wondering with the current supply tightness in the back-end equipment supply chain, do you think there is any further potential for you to raise CapEx throughout this year, if you would like to have more capacity being installed throughout the next few years? And I will have a follow-up on gross margins.

此外，我也想請教，在後段設備供應鏈目前供應吃緊的情況下，如果你們希望在未來幾年安裝更多產能，您認為今年之內是否還有進一步提高資本支出的可能性？另外我還會追問毛利率的問題。

Haas, you're looking for commentary in terms of how our capital equipment expenditures are correlated to our leading-edge advanced packaging revenue outlook, correct?

Haas，你是想聽我們就資本設備支出如何與我們對先進製程先進封裝（leading-edge advanced packaging）營收展望相關聯來做評論，對嗎？

That's correct. Thanks, Ken.

沒錯。謝謝，Ken。

First of all, two third of the increase of our CapEx is for building and facilities. As we've been saying that the suitable new factory or facility is one of the one of the gating factors for us to expand. And in that area, we are making progresses, as shown in our past announcements that we've managed to start some of the building constructions and also to acquire some of the existing facilities that are suitable for our operation or for our LEAP services business operation.

首先，我們資本支出增加的三分之二是用在建築與廠房設施。正如我們一直在說，合適的新廠或設施是我們擴產的關鍵限制因素之一。在這方面，我們正在取得進展；如同先前公告所示，我們已經啟動部分建築工程，也收購了一些適合我們營運、或適合我們 LEAP 服務業務營運的既有設施。

So -- and for the machinery, it's largely for next year's ramp-up and the bulk of it or -- TWD600 million worth of the CapEx is really for wafer sort. That will be -- the capacity will be ramped up in next year. As for this year, the -- whatever the capacity that we're building or the CapEx that we're spending for machinery should be sufficient to support another 10% growth in our LEAP service.

至於機台設備，主要是為了明年的放量（ramp-up），其中大部分——或約新台幣 6 億元的資本支出——其實是用在晶圓分選（wafer sort）。這部分產能會在明年拉升。至於今年，我們在機台方面所建置的產能或所投入的資本支出，應足以支撐我們 LEAP 服務再成長 10%。

Got it. And then I think just a quick follow-up on this part of the --

了解。那我想就這一部分再快速追問一下--

I think you got your follow-up earlier.

我想你剛才已經先問過追問了。

Okay, yeah, sure.

好的，是的，當然。

Sorry about that.

不好意思。

Bruce Lu, Goldman Sachs.

高盛，Bruce Lu。

Hello. Can you hear me? Let me ask a simple question to save job for Ken. Can you give us an update for the global capacity investment, global capacity expansion?

你好。聽得到我嗎？我問一個簡單的問題，讓 Ken 省點力。你能否更新一下全球產能投資、全球產能擴張的情況？

Global capacity expansion, you mean outside of Taiwan?

全球產能擴張，你是指台灣以外的部分嗎？

Yes. US, Southeast Asia, anywhere, any places.

是的。美國、東南亞，任何地方、任何地點。

So you're looking for a geographical differentiation between our capital expenditures? Is that what you're looking?

所以你是想了解我們資本支出在地理區域上的差異化嗎？你要問的是這個嗎？

No, no, no. I'm looking for like is there any incremental update for your investment outside of Taiwan. Your current investment is mostly highly concentrated in Taiwan. You have limited capacity, you have limited clean room. Why not go outside? And I asked two quarters ago, and I'm going to ask again.

不是不是不是。我是想問你們在台灣以外的投資是否有任何新增的更新。你們目前的投資大多高度集中在台灣。你們產能有限、無塵室也有限。為什麼不往海外？我兩季前問過，現在再問一次。

I think outside of Taiwan, I think the main investment that we're making today is really in Malaysia, where we announced that we've acquired a factory from ADI. And that will be used as our buffer capacity to serve the demand coming from outside of Taiwan.

我想在台灣以外，我們目前主要的投資其實是在馬來西亞；我們已公告收購 ADI 的一座工廠。那將作為我們的緩衝產能，用來滿足來自台灣以外的需求。

And in other areas, I think the -- we are making mostly maintenance kind of CapEx to support the operation there. However, aside from Malaysia, we are also -- I think we are also ramping up quite a bit in Singapore for our test operation, which is mostly to serve the AI-related test requirement.

至於其他地區，我想我們主要是做維持營運所需的維護性資本支出（maintenance CapEx）來支援當地運作。不過，除了馬來西亞之外，我們也——我想我們也正在新加坡大幅提升我們的測試（test）營運，主要是為了服務 AI 相關的測試需求。

I see. Thank you. I want to ask the next question, is that can you give us some update for the profitability for the -- I think you asked that before, but I want to ask a bit different. For the full process of your [LEAP], right, because the CapEx requirement is high, the utilization might be low, may be [unknown], right, at the current stage.

了解，謝謝。我想問下一個問題，也就是你們的獲利能力更新——我想之前有人問過，但我想用不同角度問。針對你們 [LEAP] 的全流程（full process），對吧？因為資本支出需求很高、稼動率可能偏低、在目前階段可能也[未知]，對吧？

But assuming the blue sky scenario, once you eventually will deliver the good yield with reasonable [cash] rate, can that -- can the full process profitability be higher than [LEAP] services gross margin or higher than the corporate average?

但假設在最理想的情境（blue sky scenario）下，一旦你們最終能達到良率表現良好、且有合理的[現金]費率，那麼——全流程的獲利能力是否可能高於 [LEAP] 服務的毛利率，或高於公司整體平均？

Bruce, you're looking for our profitability potential of our full process leading edge advanced packaging lines going forward in the case that everything goes perfectly. Is that correct?

Bruce，你是想了解我們未來先進製程先進封裝全流程產線的獲利潛力，在一切都進行得非常順利的情況下。是這個意思嗎？

Yes, which eventually will deliver.

是的，最終會做到的。

Well, we haven't reached the blue sky yet. So it's kind of difficult to answer that question. But in theory, it should be accretive to LEAP.

嗯，我們還沒到最理想的狀態。所以要回答這個問題有點困難。但理論上，它應該會對 LEAP 有增益（accretive）。

Incredible to the LEAP.

對 LEAP 具有增益。

In theory, yes, given the complexity of it.

理論上是的，考量到其複雜度。

Understand. Thank you. I don't have a follow-up.

了解。謝謝。我沒有追問了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Rick Hsu, Daiwa.

大和，Rick Hsu。

Can you guys hear me?

你們聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

聽得到。

Okay. Hi, Joseph and Ken.

好的。嗨，Joseph 和 Ken。

I just got one question here. I think, for your very strong demand for your IC ATM, the driver behind that, apart from AI and E&I -- sorry, Automotive, Industrial, do you guys see any order pull in from your customers across the board because of a concern on the supply chain uncertainties?

我這邊只有一個問題。我想，針對你們 IC ATM 需求非常強勁，其背後的驅動因素，除了 AI 以及 E&I——抱歉，汽車、工業之外，你們是否看到客戶因擔心供應鏈不確定性，而在各領域普遍出現提前拉貨（order pull-in）？

And if so, do you -- are you concerned about any demand rebalancing or order rebalance in the second half? Because apparently, like Charlie said earlier, right, there is a disconnect between the end demand, non-AI end demand and the wafer and chip loading. That is my only question.

如果有的話，你們是否擔心下半年會出現需求再平衡或訂單回調（order rebalance）？因為顯然如 Charlie 先前所說，非 AI 的終端需求與晶圓及晶片投片/載入（wafer and chip loading）之間存在脫節。這就是我唯一的問題。

So Rick, you're looking to see whether we see order pull-ins and then how we may respond to such situations. Is that correct?

所以 Rick，你是想了解我們是否看到提前拉貨，然後我們可能會如何因應這種情況。對嗎？

Exactly, especially for second half.

沒錯，特別是下半年。

Yeah. As I said, in certain segments, we are seeing softness, but those are more than offset -- being offset by the AI peripheral chips demand that we are getting. Yes, I think in the first quarter, we are seeing stronger than normal seasonality demand may be coming from pull-in.

是的。如我所說，在某些區隔我們確實看到疲弱，但這些疲弱已被我們所取得的 AI 周邊晶片需求所抵銷，甚至綽綽有餘。是的，我想在第一季，我們看到比正常季節性更強的需求，可能部分來自提前拉貨。

But having said that, we do -- we don't have -- really have the capacity because our capacity is really limited. So we don't have the capacity to entertain those pull-in demand, so to speak. So I think our revenue is very solid. It's not because of -- particularly in the first quarter growth. I don't think it's because of the customers' early pull-in that really bumped up our revenue for the quarter.

但話說回來，我們確實——我們其實沒有產能，因為我們的產能真的很有限。所以嚴格來說，我們沒有產能去承接那些提前拉貨的需求。因此我認為我們的營收非常穩健。尤其第一季的成長，我不認為是因為客戶提前拉貨，才真正把我們該季營收推高。

Okay, fair enough. Thank you so much. That's the only question I have.

好的，可以理解。非常感謝。這是我唯一的問題。

Gokul Hariharan, JP Morgan.

Gokul Hariharan，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi, thanks for the second chance. One question on CapEx, Joseph. Depending upon what you're hearing from your customers and your foundry partner, could you talk a little bit about -- do you feel that this year is a peak of CapEx? Or you think that you will have to keep spending on CapEx even into next year, given it feels like we're going to be a little bit free cash flow negative this year?

是的，嗨，謝謝讓我第二次提問。Joseph，我有一個關於資本支出（CapEx） 的問題。根據你從客戶以及晶圓代工夥伴那邊聽到的情況，你能否談談——你是否覺得今年是資本支出的高峰？或者你認為即使到明年仍需要持續投入資本支出，因為看起來我們今年的自由現金流可能會略為負值？

So I just wanted to understand, how you're thinking about CapEx into next year as well? And if CapEx is growing next year, any thoughts on how we are looking to kind of fund that CapEx into next year?

所以我想了解一下，你們對明年的資本支出是怎麼思考的？另外，如果明年的資本支出還會成長，對於明年要如何籌措資本支出資金，有沒有任何想法？

Well. By the way it's going, I think next year could be another CapEx heavy year for us.

嗯。就目前的進展來看，我認為明年對我們而言可能又會是資本支出偏重的一年。

Okay. So we should assume that CapEx keeps growing next year then, yeah?

好的。所以我們可以假設明年的資本支出會繼續增加，對嗎？

Well, it's more likely, yes.

嗯，更有可能是的。

Got it. And any thoughts on the funding, given the free cash flow is kind of probably kind of flattish or close to zero or negative this year given the heavy CapEx? Like is there any like new fundraising or something like that, that we need to think about?

了解。那在資金來源方面有什麼想法嗎？考量到今年資本支出很重，自由現金流可能大致持平、接近零或為負。例如是否需要考慮新的募資之類的？

Yeah. Whatever the funding gap that we're going to have for this and next year, I'm not sure about next year, though. But for this year, I think the funding gap will mostly be funded by additional borrowing, which we have multiple sources for that.

是的。至於今年和明年我們可能會有的資金缺口——我對明年還不確定。但就今年而言，我認為資金缺口主要會透過增加借款來補足，而我們在這方面有多個資金來源。

Okay. Understood. Maybe one more question from my side is on the testing business. I think we did talk about final test as potentially something that we wanted to win with a large GPU customer. Is that still the objective right now? Or you are too busy with too many wafer sort kind of projects on hand to kind of really go and support that kind of demand with the heavy capacity on final test?

好的。了解。我這邊可能再問一個關於測試業務的問題。我記得我們談過最終測試（final test）可能是我們希望從一家大型 GPU 客戶那裡爭取到的業務。目前這仍然是目標嗎？還是說你們手上有太多晶圓篩選（wafer sort）專案在進行，以致於沒有辦法投入大量最終測試產能來支援那樣的需求？

Yeah. I think the -- primarily, I think we will be focusing our resources in wafer sort at this point. I think we are tight in both facility as well as in capacity. So for the time being, I think the main focus will still be on wafer sort.

是的。我想——目前我們主要會把資源聚焦在晶圓篩選（wafer sort）。我認為我們在廠房以及產能兩方面都相當吃緊。所以就目前而言，主要重點仍會放在晶圓篩選。

Got it. Very clear. Thank you.

了解。非常清楚。謝謝。

Haas Liu, Bofa.

Haas Liu，美國銀行（BofA）。

Yeah, thank you. I was not able to fully ask my questions in the first round. I think just on the back-end equipment, is -- the supply right now is getting tighter and the lead time for delivery is also getting longer. Do you think there's like further potential or possibility that you need to raise your CapEx again just to show your equipment supply chain more commitment or to ensure that you could expand the capacity as scheduled throughout this year, if needed, that you need to raise your CapEx again this year?

是的，謝謝。我在第一輪沒有辦法把問題完整問完。我想問後段設備方面——目前供應變得更吃緊，交期也變得更長。你認為是否還有進一步的可能性：你們需要再次提高資本支出，以對設備供應鏈展現更多承諾，或確保今年能按計畫擴產？如果有需要，今年是否可能再提高一次資本支出？

Haas, you're looking for characterization on the likelihood of our ability to spend more on CapEx. Is that --

Haas，你是想要我們說明：我們是否有可能在資本支出上花得更多的可能性？是這個意思嗎？--

Yes, that's right. This is the straight way to ask.

是的，沒錯。這樣問最直接。

Haas is looking to understand whether we have any potential to increase our capital expenditures during this year.

Haas 想了解我們今年是否有任何提高資本支出的可能性。

I wouldn't say no. I think the -- like I said, the things are moving very fast, and there are a lot of -- our forecast is -- has been adjusted pretty rapidly at this point. And I wouldn't preclude that there will be a further need for us to increase our CapEx for the year.

我不會說不可能。我想——如我所說，事情變化非常快，而且我們的預測——目前也在相當快速地調整。因此我不會排除今年我們可能還需要進一步提高資本支出的可能性。

Okay. Yes. And my second question before I jump back to the queue is that I was wondering if you could quantify the impact of the new technology ramp transition-related costs impacting your first quarter, second quarter or even like second half this year as you have more capacity gradually on the line, but not yet entering into mass production at this stage, contributing to your revenue.

好的。是的。我第二個問題，在我回到排隊之前：我想請問你們是否能量化新技術爬坡、轉換相關成本對第一季、第二季，甚至今年下半年造成的影響？因為你們的產能正逐步上線，但現階段尚未進入量產，因此還未對營收做出貢獻。

Would you be able to quantify the potential negative impact to your gross margins? Because we already see some of the mildly negative impact in first quarter and also your second quarter outlook. And should we actually expect more of that negative dilution to happen throughout the second half of this year before your full process or even other parts of the LEAP business capacity ramp is going to contribute to your revenue growth in the following year? Is that kind of a factor -- if you have any way to quantify any of the potential negative dilution throughout the next few quarters, would be pretty helpful.

你們能否量化對毛利率可能造成的負面影響？因為我們已經在第一季以及你們對第二季的展望中看到一些輕微的負面影響。在你們完整製程、甚至 LEAP 業務其他部分的產能爬坡要到明年才會對營收成長做出貢獻之前，我們是否應該預期今年下半年會出現更多這種負面稀釋？也就是說——如果你們有任何方式可以量化未來幾季可能的負面稀釋，會非常有幫助。

Haas is looking to understand whether we have previously included the incremental depreciation into our original gross margin outlook for the year. Is that correct?

Haas 想了解我們是否已經把新增折舊（incremental depreciation）納入我們原先對今年毛利率的展望之中。是這樣嗎？

Yes. I think when we look at the margin trend, of course, we will consider all factors, including the CapEx that we're going to make, including the timing of the revenue that will be generated.

是的。我想當我們看毛利率趨勢時，當然會考量所有因素，包括我們將進行的資本支出，以及將產生營收的時間點。

I think the margin profile that we presented in the beginning of the year remains the same that first half of the year -- all quarters will be within our structural margin range, except first quarter, we are already ahead of our original plan. And second quarter, we remain to be very confident that we will be reaching the upper end of the margin range. Yes, everything is included. And so far, we haven't changed our view on our margin profile for the year.

我認為我們在年初所提出的毛利率輪廓（margin profile）仍維持不變：上半年——除了第一季之外，各季都會落在我們的結構性毛利率區間內，而第一季我們已經優於原先計畫。第二季方面，我們仍非常有信心能達到毛利率區間的上緣。是的，所有因素都已包含在內。截至目前，我們對今年毛利率輪廓的看法沒有改變。

Got it. So is there any way you could quantify probably like 50 basis points or 100 basis points impact to your first quarter and second quarter margins? And then into second half, if there's similar like 50 basis points to 100 basis points negative impact from that margin dilution for the capacity ramp. Is it like a reasonable assumption? Thanks.

了解。那你們是否能量化一下，例如對第一季與第二季毛利率影響大概是 50 個基點或 100 個基點？以及進入下半年，是否也會有類似 50 到 100 個基點的負面影響，來自於產能爬坡造成的毛利率稀釋？這樣的假設合理嗎？謝謝。

Haas, I think we haven't been able to necessarily release that as of yet, but there is expansion into the depreciation percentage. We have not been able to create an immediate dilution effect at this point. Maybe we can have that for you next quarter.

Haas，我想我們目前還無法對外釋出這個數字，不過折舊占比確實有所上升。但就目前而言，我們尚未看到立即的稀釋效應。也許我們下個季度可以提供給你。

Okay, got it. Thank you so much, Joseph and Ken.

好的，了解。非常感謝你，Joseph 和 Ken。

Laura Chen, Citigroup.

Laura Chen，花旗集團。

Thank you. Just a quick follow-up. Thanks for taking my follow-up questions. Just a quick follow-up. I think just briefly talk about the CPU opportunities on the packaging and also the testing front. Although it's still in relatively early stage, so can you share with us what would you see that the most difficult part or potential technology bottleneck and what ASE now is working? And when would you see that will be kind of an indicator we can see better breakthrough?

謝謝。我再簡單追問一下。謝謝您回答我的追問。再簡單追問一下。我想請您簡要談談在封裝以及測試端，CPU 方面的機會。雖然目前仍處於相對早期階段，能否和我們分享您認為最困難的部分或潛在的技術瓶頸是什麼，以及 ASE 目前正在做哪些工作？另外，您認為什麼時候會出現一些指標，讓我們看到更好的突破？

Laura, you're looking for an understanding as to where we see a technology bottleneck going forward?

Laura，妳是想了解我們對未來技術瓶頸可能出現在哪裡的看法嗎？

Yes. And what would be like a key watching point to (technical difficulty) we can judge like when it will be becoming a stronger revenue catalyst at ASE?

是的。以及有哪些關鍵觀察點（技術難度）可以讓我們判斷它何時會成為 ASE 更強的營收催化劑？

Well, as I said, this is a team effort between us and our foundry partner as well as our customer. I think at the end of the day, each will be doing what they do best, and there will be a natural division of works. I can't tell you what is hard, what is not. It really depends on what our respective expertise is and then suitable works will be allocated to different partners.

嗯，如我所說，這是我們、晶圓代工夥伴以及客戶之間的團隊合作。我想歸根結底，各方都會做自己最擅長的事，工作內容也會自然分工。我無法告訴你什麼是難、什麼不難。這真的取決於我們各自的專長，然後把合適的工作分配給不同的合作夥伴。

So that's how the thing is being managed at this point. Like I think everybody understands that CPO is still -- it's a must-have going forward. But at this point, it's still at a very early stage. So I think it's a bit premature to say when and how much is going to be a major revenue or profit contributor to us.

所以目前就是以這樣的方式在管理。我想大家都理解 CPO 仍然是未來必備的技術。但就現階段而言，它仍處於非常早期。因此，我認為現在就談它何時、以及會在多大程度上成為我們主要的營收或獲利貢獻來源，還有點言之過早。

Sure. Okay. Thank you.

了解。好的。謝謝。

Stephen Chang.

Stephen Chang。

Hi, thank you very much. This is Stephen from Alasia Capital, and thank you for taking my question, and congratulations for your good results and guidance.

嗨，非常感謝。我是 Alasia Capital 的 Stephen，謝謝讓我提問，也恭喜你們有很好的業績與展望指引。

So two questions from me. The first is regarding the two fab acquisition for the [indiscernible] announced, one for steel and one for ASE. I'm just curious, in what time frame do you expect these 2 new acquired facility can start to contribute to the company revenue?

我有兩個問題。第一個是關於你們公告的兩座晶圓廠收購案，[聽不清]，一個是給 steel，一個是給 ASE。我想請教，你們預期這兩個新收購的廠房大概在什麼時間點開始對公司營收做出貢獻？

Stefan, welcome to the call. You're asking about our two recent acquisitions in regards to buildings and facilities. Is that correct?

Stefan，歡迎加入電話會議。你問的是我們最近兩項與建物與廠房設施相關的收購案，對嗎？是這樣嗎？

Yes, that's correct. Thank you.

是的，沒錯。謝謝。

First of all, both buildings are going to be for LEAP services. And I think we will start ramping up progressively starting from early next year.

首先，這兩棟建物都將用於 LEAP 服務。我想我們會從明年年初開始逐步拉升產能。

Okay. Yeah. Thank you for that. So a quick follow-up. So if early next year, and I think especially for the second fab, in the news release, you mentioned that is for the packaging. So does that mean the tool installation for these two facilities, the CapEx will be in this year or that will be in the next year? Thank you.

好的。是。謝謝你的說明。我再追問一下。如果是明年年初開始，尤其是第二座廠，在新聞稿中你們提到是用於封裝。那是否代表這兩個廠的設備安裝，其資本支出會發生在今年，還是會在明年？謝謝。

You're looking for the timing of the facilitization and equipment of these two facilities?

你想問的是這兩個廠房的設施化與設備配置的時間點？

Yes. And also the impact of the CapEx, whether it's this year or next year.

是的。以及資本支出的影響，是在今年還是明年。

I think the -- at least for equipment, it will be for next year. And this factory will be -- how should I put this? Because the current facility needs to be vacated before we can start moving in and start installation and before that becomes available, there are also some construction works for facilities and some of the wiring, construction that needs to be done.

我想——至少就設備而言，會是在明年。而這座工廠將會——我該怎麼說呢？因為現有的設施需要先騰空，我們才能開始進駐並進行安裝；在空間可用之前，也還需要做一些廠務工程，以及部分配線、施工等工程。

So if we're breaking down the CapEx between -- for building facilities or for equipment, I think the -- for the building part of it, it will start earlier. But for equipment, it will be starting from next year once we -- the space becomes available and we progressively put the machineries in.

所以如果把資本支出拆分為——廠房設施或設備兩部分，我想——建物/廠務的部分會更早開始。但設備部分會從明年開始，等空間可用後，我們再逐步把機台設備搬入。

And also one last quick follow-up is so we discussed about full service and even some -- the new technology panel. But I'm curious if you can give us any color, how do you see co-op right now?

最後再快速追問一個：我們討論了全方位服務，甚至一些——新的技術面板。但我想了解你們目前怎麼看 co-op？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Co-op?

Co-op？

Yes, chip PCB. Thank you.

是的，chip PCB。謝謝。

That's -- I think it's further away. So I'm not an expert in this. So I don't think I'm qualified to comment on that.

那個——我想距離還比較遠。而且我不是這方面的專家。所以我想我沒有資格對此評論。

Okay, got it. Thank you. No further question from me.

好的，了解。謝謝。我沒有其他問題了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

We don't see anyone raising their hands online now.

我們目前在線上沒有看到有人舉手。

All right. Thank you very much. See you next quarter.

好的。非常感謝。我們下季見。

I think to sum up, we had a good quarter, and we'll continue to have a good year. And next year, we see a very, very strong momentum continuing. And we will do our best to execute our expansion plan to meet the demand from our customers. And we will continue to see our profit return to expand. And come next year when things are more settled, we will be reviewing our structural margin range to make it a more suitable range for us. Thank you.

我想總結一下：我們這一季表現不錯，而且今年也會持續有好的表現。而明年我們看到非常、非常強勁的動能將持續延續。我們會盡最大努力執行擴產計畫，以滿足客戶需求。我們也將持續看到獲利回報擴大。等到明年情況更為穩定時，我們會重新檢視我們的結構性毛利率區間，使其更符合我們的狀況。謝謝。