日月光投資控股 (ASX) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello. I am Ken Hsiang , the Head of Investor Relations for ASE Technology Holdings. Welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings release. I'm joined today by Dr. Tien Wu, our COO; and Joseph Tung, our CFO. Thank you for attending our earnings release today.

你好。我是日月光科技控股有限公司投資人關係主管項建（Ken Hsiang）。歡迎閱讀我們2025年第四季及全年財報。今天與我一同出席的有我們的營運長田武博士和財務長董先生。感謝各位參加我們今天的財報發表會。

Please refer to our safe harbor notice on page 2. All participants consent to having their voices and questions broadcast via participation in this event. If participants do not consent, please do not ask questions or you may leave the session at this time. I would like to remind everyone that the presentation that follows may contain forward-looking statements.

請參閱第 2 頁的安全港聲明。所有參與者同意透過參與本次活動的方式，公開他們的聲音和問題。如果參與者不同意，請不要提問，否則您可以離開會議。我想提醒大家，接下來的簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述。

These forward-looking statements are subject to a high degree of risk, and our actual results may differ materially. For purposes of this presentation, dollar figures are generally stated in new Taiwan dollars unless otherwise indicated.

這些前瞻性陳述有很高的風險，我們的實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。除非另有說明，否則本次示範中的美元金額一般以新台幣表示。

As a Taiwan-based company, our financial information is presented in accordance with Taiwan IFRS. Results presented using Taiwan IFRS may differ materially from results using other accounting standards, including those presented by our subsidiaries.

作為一家總部位於台灣的公司，我們的財務資訊是依照台灣國際財務報告準則編制。使用台灣國際財務報告準則編製的結果可能與使用其他會計準則（包括我們子公司編製的結果）編製的結果有重大差異。

For today's presentation, Dr. Wu will be delivering the company's keynote. I will be going over the financial results, and Joseph will then provide the company's guidance. We will then be available to take your questions during the Q&A session that follows.

在今天的演講中，吳博士將發表公司的主題演講。我將分析財務業績，然後約瑟夫將給出公司的發展方向。接下來我們將進入問答環節，屆時將回答您的問題。

With that, let me hand the presentation over to Dr. Tien Wu.

那麼，現在讓我把演講交給吳天博士。

Good afternoon. I would like to give you a two, three years' outlook for the ASE business. This represents the best perspective that we have as of today from our partner as well as customer. Let me talk about the megatrend and future opportunities. The AI server cycle continues, primarily led by hyperscaler and the data center development.

午安.我想向大家展望一下 ASE 業務未來兩到三年的發展前景。這是截至目前為止我們從合作夥伴和客戶那裡獲得的最佳觀點。讓我來談談大趨勢和未來機會。AI 伺服器週期仍在繼續，主要由超大規模資料中心和資料中心的發展所引領。

There's a lot of activity in the physical layers via edge applications. For example, we're seeing more design perspective regarding to the robotics and the drone, also the equipment surrounding the automotive and the smart manufacturing. And I think the volume will gradually show up in the next two years which is what we're looking for. We are seeing last year, the mainstream business recovered. We believe the mainstream, namely the IoT, the automotive, the general sector, the mainstream business will recover better this year comparing to last year.

透過邊緣應用，物理層非常活躍。例如，我們看到在機器人和無人機方面，以及在汽車和智慧製造相關的設備方面，出現了更多的設計視角。我認為未來兩年​​銷售量會逐漸成長，這正是我們所期待的。我們看到，去年主流商業已經復甦。我們認為，今年主流產業，即物聯網、汽車、一般產業、主流業務，將比去年更好地復甦。

The second category is what I call the ASE and the Taiwan cluster. I would like to give you two backgrounds. Many of you have raised the questions, there seems to be a very fast evolution in technology as was demand. So the question is, how will ASE and the Taiwan cluster react to the fast evolution of technology and manufacturing requirement?

第二類是我稱為 ASE 和台灣群聚的。我想介紹兩種背景給你聽。許多人都提出了這個問題，科技發展似乎非常迅速，需求也隨之成長。所以問題是，日月光和台灣產業群聚將如何應對技術和製造需求的快速發展？

The second question is, there seems to be a lot of constraints in substrate and maybe memory. And how would that change our perspective regarding to the manufacturing for our partner? I will try to answer that using a longer time frame.

第二個問題是，基質和記憶體方面似乎有很多限制。那麼這將如何改變我們對合作夥伴生產製造的看法？我會嘗試用更長的時間跨度來回答這個問題。

I think there's no question about the leadership in semiconductor manufacturing in Taiwan for this year as well as a few years down the road. I don't think there's any question about our position, Taiwan as was ASE. We also understand that what is driving the business in AI is mainly the system optimization, which includes chip level optimization, packaging level optimization as well as power delivery, silicon photonics, manufacturing efficiency as well as thermal. I would like to remind you, Taiwan has manufacturing leadership in all sectors.

我認為，無論今年或未來幾年，台灣在半導體製造業的領先地位都毋庸置疑。我認為我們的立場沒有任何疑問，台灣就像以前的ASE一樣。我們也了解到，推動人工智慧業務發展的主要是系統優化，包括晶片級優化、封裝級優化以及電源傳輸、矽光子學、製造效率和散熱。我想提醒各位，台灣在各個製造業領域都處於領先地位。

In other words, not only we exemplify the strength in each sector, there's a lot of cross-collaboration, co-design, co-optimization and co-manufacturing in this era. This is particularly true when there is a supply constraint. The leadership will have a first-mover advantage when there is a supply constraint.

換句話說，我們不僅體現了各個領域的實力，而且在這個時代還有大量的跨領域合作、共同設計、共同優化和共同製造。當供應受限時，這種情況尤其如此。當供應受限時，領導階層將擁有先發優勢。

In the fast evolution, amidst all uncertainty, customers tend to go for the leader to manufacturing the first product in order to maintain the leadership position. So ASE and Taiwan collectively will have competitive advantages over our competitor in this space.

在快速發展的時代，面對各種不確定性，顧客往往會選擇率先生產產品的領導者，以維持其領先地位。因此，ASE和台灣方面將共同擁有在該領域相對於競爭對手的競爭優勢。

Many of you ask if ASE is going to ramp up last year, this year, as was potentially 2027 and beyond, how can we manage all of the factory space, CapEx, resource management? It is a difficult question, but ASE is not doing this alone. In Taiwan, let me give you a few examples, there's a lot of technology collaboration with our partner, upstream and downstream.

很多人問，如果日月光去年、今年以及可能在 2027 年及以後擴大產能，我們該如何管理所有的工廠空間、資本支出和資源管理？這是一個難題，但 ASE 並非孤軍奮戰。在台灣，我舉幾個例子，我們與合作夥伴在上游和下游領域有許多技術合作。

In terms of factory space, yes, we are building factory from scratch. We're also acquiring existing factory from our partner, even with clean rooms already installed. Resource planning, you have to look at the whole cluster. So here, I am particularly grateful to our customer as well as our partner for supporting us, helping us to ramp up.

就廠房面積而言，是的，我們正在從零開始建造工廠。我們也正在從合作夥伴那裡收購現有的工廠，甚至連無塵室都已經安裝好了。資源規劃時，必須考慮整個叢集。在此，我特別感謝我們的客戶和合作夥伴，感謝他們對我們的支持，幫助我們擴大規模。

Now once again, when there is a supply constraint, when there's a fast evolution, where everything is running against time, the Taiwan cluster has demonstrated the best efficiency and speed in terms of manufacturing ramp-up. This will set the stage for many of the conversations that we will have throughout this call.

現在，當供應受限、發展迅速、一切都與時間賽跑時，台灣產業群再次展現了在製造業快速發展方面的最佳效率和速度。這將為我們本次通話中將要進行的許多對話奠定基礎。

Lastly, I want to talk about ASE's Taiwan Plus One. Many of you have asked, what is our strategy in terms of Taiwan Plus One? Our objective is to support all of our customers, satisfying their manufacturing requirement on the global footprint. Here, I want to give you a very simple classification from ASE's perspective.

最後，我想談談日月光的「台灣+1」戰略。很多朋友都問過，我們在「台灣+1」策略方面的策略是什麼？我們的目標是為所有客戶提供支持，滿足他們在全球範圍內的製造需求。在這裡，我想從 ASE 的角度為你們做一個非常簡單的分類。

In the future 5 to 10 years, there will be wafers out of Taiwan. There will be wafers not coming from Taiwan. For wafers that are coming from Taiwan, ASE has a very good opportunity to do packaging and testing inside of Taiwan. Might not be all true, but that is the assumption. Now for wafers that are not produced in Taiwan, they might also come to Taiwan, but they might also not come to Taiwan.

未來5到10年內，台灣將會出現晶圓生產商。有些晶圓並非產自台灣。對於來自台灣的晶圓，日月光有很好的機會在台灣境內進行封裝和測試。可能並非完全屬實，但這是我們的假設。對於非台灣生產的晶圓，它們可能會運到台灣，但也可能不會運到台灣。

So ASE is building footprint primarily in Penang, mainly for the automotive and the future potentially robotics, to capture customers and wafers that are not produced in Taiwan, but would like ASE to use our automation as well as all of our advanced technology to help them produce the system package and the system optimization. We're also building footprint in Korea and Philippines. But Penang will be the main sector that we'll be ramping up simply because the Penang cluster has been well established second to Taiwan.

因此，日月光主要在檳城建立業務，主要面向汽車行業，未來可能還會拓展到機器人領域，以吸引那些不在台灣生產晶圓的客戶和晶圓，這些客戶希望日月光利用我們的自動化技術以及所有先進技術來幫助他們生產系統封裝和進行系統優化。我們也在韓國和菲律賓拓展業務。但檳城將是我們重點發展的地區，因為檳城產業群聚已經發展成熟，僅次於台灣。

With that, I would like to give you the 2025 recap. The consolidated revenue grew 12% at a holdco level with ATM revenue up 23% led by Leading Edge Advanced Packaging services and Testing business. The LEAP services reached $1.6 billion, accounting for 13% of ATM revenue, up from $0.6 billion in 2024 or 6% of ATM revenue.

最後，我想給大家做個2025年的回顧。控股公司層級的合併收入成長了 12%，其中 ATM 收入成長了 23%，這主要得益於領先先進封裝服務和測試業務的成長。LEAP 服務收入達到 16 億美元，佔 ATM 收入的 13%，高於 2024 年的 6 億美元（佔 ATM 收入的 6%）。

The general segment grew 13% year-on-year. Testing business grew 36% year-on-year in 2025, supported by expanding turnkey and leading-edge test. Machinery CapEx totaled $3.4 billion. Building facilities automation CapEx was $2.1 billion in 2025, mainly driven by LEAP services and testing investment.

整體市場較去年同期成長13%。2025 年，測試業務年增 36%，這得益於交鑰匙工程和前沿測試的不斷擴展。機械設備資本支出總計34億美元。2025 年樓宇設施自動化資本支出為 21 億美元，主要由 LEAP 服務和測試投資推動。

Next page, 2026 outlook. Our CFO will give you more elaboration after this highlight. We expect revenue uptrend to continue 2026 and beyond, driven by leading-edge solutions and broad-based semiconductor demand related to AI proliferation and general market recovery.

下一頁，2026 年展望。我們的財務長將在簡要介紹之後為您作更詳細的說明。我們預計，在人工智慧普及和整體市場復甦帶來的前沿解決方案和廣泛的半導體需求的推動下，2026 年及以後的收入成長趨勢將繼續保持。

ATM business, leading-edge assembly packaging service to double from USD1.6 billion to USD3.2 billion, with roughly 75% from packaging and 25% from testing. General segment continues to grow at a similar pace as last year.

ATM 業務，領先的組裝包裝服務，將從 16 億美元翻一番至 32 億美元，其中約 75% 來自包裝，25% 來自測試。一般市場繼續以與去年類似的速度成長。

Overall, ATM revenue to outperform the logic semiconductor market. Stepping up CapEx expenditure that Joseph will talk about numbers with the investments in R&D, human capital, advanced capacity and smart factory infrastructure to support the multiyear growth.

總體而言，ATM 收入將超過邏輯半導體市場。約瑟夫將談到加大資本支出，並結合研發、人力資本、先進產能和智慧工廠基礎設施的投資，來支持多年的成長。

So our view is ASE is in a very good position together with our customer as well as Taiwan partners, and we understand the short-term need, we're trying to run against time to fulfill the supply. Long term, we are deploying our floor space outside of Taiwan to capture the next-generation opportunity. Thank you.

因此，我們認為日月光與我們的客戶以及台灣合作夥伴都處於非常有利的地位，我們了解短期需求，我們正在爭分奪秒地滿足供應。從長遠來看，我們正在台灣以外地區拓展業務，以抓住下一代機會。謝謝。

Thank you, Tien. For the fourth quarter from a financial perspective, our ATM factory loading was slightly better than originally anticipated. With higher loading, we were able to extract higher operating leverage. Our ATM factories in Taiwan ran at or near full capacity with LEAP and traditional advanced packaging utilization rates outpacing that of wirebond. Non-Taiwan utilization rates continued to show improvement.

謝謝你，田。從財務角度來看，第四季我們的 ATM 工廠裝機量略優於最初的預期。透過提高負載，我們可以獲得更高的營運槓桿。我們在台灣的 ATM 工廠以 LEAP 和傳統先進封裝的利用率達到或接近滿載運轉，超過了線鍵合的利用率。非台灣地區的利用率持續改善。

Our overall ATM utilization rate was around 80%. Our EMS business slowed slightly due to underlying product seasonality. Revenue and profitability was aligned to our initial outlooks. Please turn to Page 6 where you will find our fourth quarter consolidated results.

我們的ATM整體利用率約為80%。由於產品本身存在季節性因素，我們的EMS業務略有放緩。營收和獲利能力與我們最初的預期相符。請翻到第6頁，您將在那裡看到我們第四季的綜合業績。

For the fourth quarter, we recorded fully diluted EPS of $3.24 and basic EPS of $3.37. Consolidated net revenues were $177.9 billion, representing an increase of 6% sequentially and 10% year-over-year. On a US dollar basis, our sales increased by 2% sequentially and 14% year-over-year. Our gross profit was $34.7 billion with a gross margin of 19.5%. Our gross margin improved by 2.4 percentage points sequentially and by 3.1 percentage points year-over-year.

第四季度，我們錄得完全稀釋後每股收益 3.24 美元，基本每股收益 3.37 美元。合併淨收入為 1,779 億美元，季增 6%，年增 10%。以美元計，我們的銷售額環比成長 2%，年增 14%。我們的毛利為 347 億美元，毛利率為 19.5%。我們的毛利率較上月提高了 2.4 個百分點，年增了 3.1 個百分點。

This sequential improvement in margin is primarily due to higher loading in our ATM business and NT dollar depreciation. The annual improvement is primarily due to higher factory utilization offset in part by the annual appreciation of the NT dollar.

利潤率的環比改善主要歸功於 ATM 業務更高的客流量和新台幣貶值。年度改善主要歸功於工廠利用率的提高，但部分被新台幣的年度升值所抵消。

We estimate that foreign exchange had a positive 1.1 percentage point impact to our gross margins sequentially, and while having a negative 1.2 percentage point impact annually. Our operating expenses increased by $1.4 billion sequentially and $1.6 billion annually to $17 billion. The sequential and annual increases in operating expenses are primarily due to higher R&D labor-related costs.

我們估計外匯波動對我們的毛利率產生了環比 1.1 個百分點的正面影響，但對年度毛利率產生了 1.2 個百分點的負面影響。我們的營運支出較上季增加 14 億美元，年增 16 億美元，達到 170 億美元。營運費用逐年遞增，主要是因為研發勞動成本上升所致。

Our operating expense percentage increased 0.3 percentage points sequentially to 9.6% and edged up 0.1 percentage points annually. Operating profit was $17.7 billion, up $4.5 billion sequentially and $6.5 billion year-over-year.

我們的營運費用百分比比上季上升 0.3 個百分點至 9.6%，年比小幅上升 0.1 個百分點。營業利潤為 177 億美元，季增 45 億美元，年增 65 億美元。

Operating margin was 9.9%, up 2.1 percentage points sequentially and up 3 percentage points year-over-year. During the quarter, we had a net nonoperating gain of $0.6 billion. Our non-operating gain for the quarter primarily consists of net foreign exchange hedging activities, offset in part by net interest expense of $1.7 billion.

營業利益率為 9.9%，季增 2.1 個百分點，較去年同期成長 3 個百分點。本季度，我們獲得了 0.6 億美元的非經營性淨收益。本季非經營性收益主要包括外匯避險淨額，部分被 17 億美元的淨利息支出所抵銷。

Tax expense for the quarter was $3.2 billion. Our effective tax rate for the quarter was 18%. Net income for the quarter was $14.7 billion, representing an increase of $3.8 billion sequentially and $5.4 billion annually. On the bottom of the page, we provide key P&L line items without the inclusion of PPA-related expenses. Excluding PPA expenses, gross margin would be 19.8%, operating margin would be 10.4% and net margin would be 8.7%.

本季稅收支出為32億美元。本季實際稅率為18%。本季淨利為 147 億美元，季增 38 億美元，年增 54 億美元。在頁面底部，我們提供了關鍵的損益表項目，但不包括與購電協議相關的費用。不計入 PPA 費用，毛利率為 19.8%，營業利益率為 10.4%，淨利率為 8.7%。

Basic EPS, excluding PPA expenses, would be $3.55. Please refer to page 7. Here, you will find our 2025 consolidated full year results versus 2024 full year results. Fully diluted EPS for the year was $8.89 while basic EPS was $9.37. For 2025, consolidated net revenues improved 8% as compared with 2024.

不計購電協議費用，基本每股收益為 3.55 美元。請參閱第 7 頁。在這裡，您可以找到我們 2025 年全年合併業績與 2024 年全年業績的比較。全年完全稀釋後每股收益為 8.89 美元，基本每股收益為 9.37 美元。 2025 年合併淨收入較 2024 年成長 8%。

Our ATM business improved by 20%, while our EMS business declined by 5% annually. Our ATM business was 60% of our consolidated net revenue, up from 54% in 2024. Gross profit for the year was $114.2 billion, improving $17.3 billion year-over-year or by 18%.

我們的 ATM 業務成長了 20%，而我們的 EMS 業務每年下降了 5%。我們的 ATM 業務占我們合併淨收入的 60%，高於 2024 年的 54%。該年度毛利為 1,142 億美元，比上年增長 173 億美元，增幅達 18%。

In 2025, our consolidated gross margin improved 1.4 percentage points to 17.7% principally as a result of higher ATM revenue mix and higher factory utilization of our ATM equipment, offset in part by appreciating NT dollar and higher utility costs. Operating expenses increased $5.7 billion for the year and came in at $63.4 billion.

2025 年，我們的綜合毛利率提高了 1.4 個百分點，達到 17.7%，這主要得益於 ATM 收入佔比提高以及 ATM 設備工廠利用率提高，但部分被新台幣升值和公用事業成本上漲所抵消。本年度營運支出增加了 57 億美元，達到 634 億美元。

Our overall operating expense percentage edged up 0.1 percentage points to 9.8%. As a general trend, we believe our spending in R&D on an absolute dollar level will continue to increase as the technological complexity of services we offer continues to progress. However, as our R&D investments start yielding associated incremental revenues, such as those in our LEAP business, we should see increasing operating leverage.

我們的整體營運費用率小幅上升0.1個百分點，達到9.8%。整體趨勢是，隨著我們所提供服務的技術複雜性不斷提高，我們相信我們在研發方面的絕對支出金額將持續成長。然而，隨著我們的研發投資開始產生相關的增量收入，例如我們在 LEAP 業務中的投資，我們應該會看到營運槓桿不斷提高。

Currently, we see our 2026 ATM operating expense percentage declining by near 100 basis points with our consolidated operating expense percentage dropping 80 basis points. Operating profit for the year was $50.8 billion, increasing $11.6 billion.

目前，我們預計 2026 年 ATM 營運費用百分比將下降近 100 個基點，而綜合營運費用百分比將下降 80 個基點。本年度營業利潤為 508 億美元，比上年增長 116 億美元。

Operating margin for the year was 7.9%, representing an improvement of 1.3 percentage points from 2024. Our ATM business accounted for 87% of our 2025 operating profit, up from 80% in 2024. We recorded a net nonoperating gain of $0.5 billion for the year, including a net interest expense of $5.6 billion versus $4.9 billion in 2024. Most of the net non-operating gain was associated with our foreign currency hedging activities. Total tax expense was $9.5 billion, the effective tax rate for 2025 was 18.4%.

本年度營業利益率為 7.9%，比 2024 年提高了 1.3 個百分點。2025 年，我們的 ATM 業務佔營業利潤的 87%，高於 2024 年的 80%。本年度錄得淨非經營性收益 5 億美元，其中包括淨利息支出 56 億美元，而 2024 年為 49 億美元。大部分非經營性淨收益與我們的外匯避險活動有關。2025 年的總稅收支出為 95 億美元，實際稅率為 18.4%。

We expect our effective tax rate for 2026 to be about 18%. Net income for the year increased by 25% to $40.7 billion. On a full year basis, we estimate that the appreciating NT dollar had a negative 0.9 percentage point impact to our consolidated gross and operating margins.

我們預計 2026 年的實際稅率約為 18%。本年度淨利成長25%，達407億美元。根據全年數據，我們估計新台幣升值對我們的合併毛利率和營業利率產生了 0.9 個百分點的負面影響。

Removing the effect of PPA depreciation, our gross margin would be 18%, our operating margin would be 8.4%, our basic EPS would be $10.07. On page 8 is a graphical presentation of our consolidated quarterly financial performance. Our ATM business driven by expanding LEAP services continues to outgrow our EMS business.

剔除購電協議折舊的影響後，我們的毛利率為18%，營業利益率為8.4%，基本每股盈餘為10.07美元。第8頁是我們合併季度財務表現的圖表展示。受 LEAP 服務不斷擴展的推動，我們的 ATM 業務持續成長，超過了我們的 EMS 業務。

Looking into 2026, we continue to expect our ATM business to outgrow our EMS business. As such, we believe that ATM revenues and profitability will continue to become a larger share of our consolidated total and continue to positively impact our consolidated margin structure.

展望 2026 年，我們仍預期我們的 ATM 業務成長速度將超過我們的 EMS 業務。因此，我們相信 ATM 收入和獲利能力將繼續在我們合併總額中所佔比例越來越大，並繼續對我們的合併利潤率結構產生積極影響。

On page 9 is our ATM P&L. The ATM revenue reported here contains revenues eliminated at the holding company level related to intercompany transactions between our ATM and EMS businesses. For the fourth quarter of 2025, we had record revenues for our ATM business of $109.7 billion, up $9.4 billion from the previous quarter and up $21.3 billion from the same period last year.

第 9 頁是我們的 ATM 損益表。這裡報告的 ATM 收入包含在控股公司層級抵消的與我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務之間的公司間交易相關的收入。2025 年第四季度，我們的 ATM 業務營收創歷史新高，達到 1,097 億美元，比上一季成長 94 億美元，比去年同期成長 213 億美元。

This represents an increase of 9% sequentially and 24% annually. Our test business' growth as a whole continues to outpace that of our assembly business. Test revenues grew 13% sequentially and 33% annually. Gross profit for our ATM business was $28.8 billion, up $6.1 billion sequentially and up $8.2 billion year-over-year. Gross profit margin for our ATM business was 26.3%, up 3.7 percentage points sequentially and 3 percentage points year-over-year.

這比上一季增長了 9%，比上一年增長了 24%。我們的測試業務整體成長速度持續超過組裝業務的成長速度。測試收入季增 13%，年增 33%。我們的 ATM 業務毛利為 288 億美元，季增 61 億美元，年增 82 億美元。我們的 ATM 業務毛利率為 26.3%，較上季成長 3.7 個百分點，較去年同期成長 3 個百分點。

The sequential gross margin increase was primarily due to higher equipment utilization, depreciation of the NT dollar and the end of higher summer utility rates. Meanwhile, the annual gross margin improvement was primarily due to higher equipment utilization, offset in part by the depreciation of the NT dollar.

毛利率環比成長主要歸因於設備利用率提高、新台幣貶值以及夏季較高公用事業費率的結束。同時，年度毛利率的提高主要歸功於設備利用率的提高，但部分被新台幣貶值所抵銷。

During the fourth quarter, operating expenses were $12.7 billion, up $0.9 billion sequentially and $1.6 billion year-over-year. The sequential and annual increases in operating expenses are primarily related to higher R&D costs and labor expenses.

第四季營運支出為 127 億美元，季增 9 億美元，年增 16 億美元。營運費用逐年遞增，主要與研發成本和勞動成本的增加有關。

Our operating expense percentage for the quarter was 11.6%, decreasing 0.2 percentage points sequentially and down 1 percentage point annually. The decline was primarily the result of higher revenues during the quarter.

本季我們的營運費用率為 11.6%，季減 0.2 個百分點，年減 1 個百分點。該季度營收成長是導致業績下滑的主要原因。

During the fourth quarter, operating profit was $16.1 billion, representing a sequential increase of $5.2 billion and an annual increase of $6.6 billion. Operating margin was 14.7%, up 3.9 percentage points sequentially and up 4 percentage points year-over-year. Without the impact of PPA-related depreciation and amortization, ATM gross profit margin would be 26.7% and operating profit margin would be 15.3%.

第四季營業利潤為 161 億美元，季增 52 億美元，年增 66 億美元。營業利益率為 14.7%，較上季成長 3.9 個百分點，較去年同期成長 4 個百分點。如果不考慮與 PPA 相關的折舊和攤銷的影響，ATM 的毛利率將為 26.7%，營業利潤率將為 15.3%。

On page 10, we have our ATM full year P&L. During 2025, we continue to see impressive growth of our LEAP-related services, but we also started to see a strong recovery of more traditional services toward the middle of the year.

第 10 頁是我們 ATM 的全年損益表。2025 年，我們繼續看到與 LEAP 相關的服務實現了令人矚目的成長，但我們也開始看到，在年中，更傳統的服務出現了強勁的復甦。

Full year 2025 revenues for our ATM business improved by 19% and with our packaging business up 17% and our test business up nearly twice a packaging at 32%. Gross profit for the year improved 25% to $91.4 billion. Gross margin for the year was 23.5%, up 1 percentage point from 2024. Margin improvement was the result of higher factory efficiency, offset in part by the impact of the appreciating NT dollar. We estimate that depreciating NT dollar had a negative 1.4 percentage point impact on margins here.

2025 年全年，我們的 ATM 業務收入成長了 19%，包裝業務成長了 17%，測試業務成長了近兩倍於包裝業務，達到 32%。本年度毛利成長25%，達914億美元。本年度毛利率為 23.5%，較 2024 年成長 1 個百分點。利潤率的提高是工廠效率提高的結果，但部分被新台幣升值的影響所抵銷。我們估計新台幣貶值對這裡的利潤率產生了 1.4 個百分點的負面影響。

Adding that back, gross margin for the year would be well within our structural gross margin range. Our operating expenses increased by $6.1 billion during the year, led primarily by higher labor-related expenses. However, our operating expense percentage decreased by 0.5 percentage points to 12.1%. Operating profit improved $12.1 billion to $44.1 billion while our operating margin improved 1.5 percentage points to 11.3%. Without the impact of PPA-related expenses, gross profit margin would be 24% and operating margin would be 12.1%.

加上這部分，今年的毛利率將完全在我們結構性的毛利率範圍內。本年度我們的營運支出增加了 61 億美元，主要原因是勞動力相關支出增加。然而，我們的營運費用百分比下降了0.5個百分點，至12.1%。營業利潤成長121億美元至441億美元，營業利潤率成長1.5個百分點至11.3%。不計入購電協議相關費用的影響，毛利率將達到 24%，營業利益率將達到 12.1%。

On page 11, you'll find a graphical representation of our ATM P&L. We believe we have had 2 main drivers for our improvement trend in gross margin, higher utilization of factory equipment and a higher mix of LEAP services and revenues. Looking forward, we expect to continue to see a rising mix of LEAP-related business.

在第 11 頁，您將看到我們 ATM 損益表的圖形表示。我們認為，毛利率改善趨勢主要有兩個驅動因素：工廠設備的利用率提高以及LEAP服務和收入比例提高。展望未來，我們預期與 LEAP 相關的業務佔比將持續上升。

On page 12 is our ATM revenue by 3C market segments. There aren't many changes here. On page 13, you will find our ATM revenue by service type. Here, you can see the two service types which pertain to our LEAP services. Bump and flip chip and testing, both are becoming a larger component of our overall business. Traditional advanced packaging with LEAP now accounts for more than half of our overall ATM business. Wirebond now accounts for less than 1/4 of our overall ATM business. Meanwhile, our test business during the fourth quarter reached 19% of ATM.

第 12 頁是我們以 3C 市場區隔劃分的 ATM 收入。這裡沒有太多變化。在第 13 頁，您可以找到我們按服務類型劃分的 ATM 收入。在這裡，您可以看到與我們的 LEAP 服務相關的兩種服務類型。凸塊和倒裝晶片以及測試，這兩項都正成為我們整體業務中越來越重要的組成部分。採用 LEAP 的傳統先進封裝技術目前已占我們 ATM 業務總量的一半以上。Wirebond 目前在我們整體 ATM 業務中所佔比例不到 1/4。同時，我們在第四季的測試業務達到了 ATM 的 19%。

On page 14, you can see the fourth quarter results of our EMS business. During the quarter, EMS revenues were flat sequentially at $69 billion, while down 8% year-over-year. The annual decline was the result of differing underlying device seasonality. Sequentially, our EMS business' gross margin declined 0.2 percentage points to 9%.

在第 14 頁，您可以看到我們 EMS 業務的第四季業績。本季度，EMS 營收環比持平，為 690 億美元，但年減 8%。年度下降是由於不同設備本身的季節性差異造成的。與上一季相比，我們的EMS業務毛利率下降了0.2個百分點，至9%。

This change was principally the result of product mix. Operating expenses within our EMS business increased by $0.4 billion sequentially and $0.1 billion annually. The increases are primarily the result of a higher head count and fluctuations related to our profit-sharing program.

這項變化主要是產品組合變化的結果。我們的EMS業務營運支出較上季增加0.4億美元，年增0.1億美元。成長的主要原因是員工人數增加以及與利潤分享計畫相關的波動。

Our fourth quarter EMS operating expense percentage of 6.2% was up 0.6 percentage points sequentially and annually. The sequential operating expense percentage increase is primarily from increases in compensation due to head count and related bonuses and profit sharing.

我們第四季的EMS營運費用百分比為6.2%，環比和年比均上升了0.6個百分點。營運費用較上月成長主要來自人員增加、相關獎金和利潤分成所帶來的薪資成長。

Operating margin for the fourth quarter was 2.8%, down 0.9 percentage points sequentially and up 0.1 percentage points year-over-year. Our EMS fourth quarter operating profit was $2 billion, down $0.5 billion sequentially and flat annually.

第四季營業利潤率為 2.8%，季減 0.9 個百分點，較去年同期成長 0.1 個百分點。我們的EMS第四季營業利潤為20億美元，季減5億美元，與去年同期持平。

On a full year basis, our EMS operations revenues declined 5%, gross profits for the year declined 3% with gross margin improving 0.1 percentage points to 9.1%. Operating profit declined 5% with operating margin staying flat at 2.9%. As the electronics industry pivots towards various applications of AI, so will the focus of our EMS business.

從全年來看，我們的 EMS 業務收入下降了 5%，全年毛利下降了 3%，毛利率提高了 0.1 個百分點，達到 9.1%。營業利益下降5%，營業利益率不變，為2.9%。隨著電子產業轉型為人工智慧的各種應用領域，我們EMS業務的重點也將隨之調整。

For the coming year, we'll see our EMS business continued to extend its system capabilities further into AI and AI adjacent applications such as server, optical and power solutions. There are a number of EMS projects in various stages of development that will help position the business for growth this year and beyond.

展望未來一年，我們將看到我們的 EMS 業務繼續將其係統功能進一步擴展到 AI 和 AI 相關應用領域，例如伺服器、光纖和電源解決方案。目前有許多EMS專案處於不同的開發階段，這些專案將有助於公司在今年及以後實現成長。

On page 15, you will find a graphical representation of our EMS revenue by application. There was a slight shift from consumer devices to computing, automotive and industrial devices. The shifts here are generally due to underlying product seasonality.

在第 15 頁，您將看到我們 EMS 收入按應用領域劃分的圖表。消費性電子設備領域略微轉向了電腦、汽車和工業設備領域。這些變化通常是由於產品本身的季節性因素所造成的。

On page 16, you will find key line items from our balance sheet. At the end of the year, we had cash, cash equivalents and current financial assets of $102 billion. Our total interest-bearing debt increased by $22.7 billion to $272.9 billion. Total unused credit lines amounted to $400.6 billion. Our EBITDA for the quarter was $38.3 billion. Our net debt to equity this quarter was 46%.

第 16 頁列出了我們資產負債表中的關鍵項目。截至年底，我們擁有現金、現金等價物及流動金融資產1,020億美元。我們的計息債務總額增加了 227 億美元，達到 2,729 億美元。未使用的信貸額度總額達 4,006 億美元。本季我們的 EBITDA 為 383 億美元。本季我們的淨負債權益比為 46%。

On page 17, you will find our equipment capital expenditures relative to our EBITDA. Machinery and equipment capital expenditures for the fourth quarter in US dollars totaled $733 million, of which $485 million was used in packaging operations, $218 million in testing operations, and $28 million in EMS operations and $1 million in interconnect material operations and others.

在第 17 頁，您將看到我們相對於 EBITDA 的設備資本支出。第四季機械設備資本支出（以美元計）總計 7.33 億美元，其中 4.85 億美元用於包裝業務，2.18 億美元用於測試業務，2,800 萬美元用於 EMS 業務，100 萬美元用於互連材料業務及其他業務。

In addition to spending on machinery and equipment, during the quarter, we also spent $456 million on facilities, which includes land and buildings. For the year 2025, machinery and equipment capital expenditures in US dollars totaled $3.4 billion, of which $2.1 billion was used in packaging operations, $1.1 billion in testing operations, $139 million in EMS operations, $13 million in interconnect materials and others. For the year 2025, we additionally spent $2.1 billion on facilities, which include buildings and land.

除了在機械和設備上的支出外，本季度我們還在設施方面花費了 4.56 億美元，其中包括土地和建築物。2025 年，機械設備資本支出總額為 34 億美元，其中 21 億美元用於包裝業務，11 億美元用於測試業務，1.39 億美元用於 EMS 業務，1,300 萬美元用於互連材料和其他。到 2025 年，我們還額外投入 21 億美元用於設施建設，包括建築物和土地。

With that, I'll hand the presentation over to Joseph to present the company's outlook.

接下來，我將把演講交給約瑟夫，由他來介紹公司的發展前景。

Thank you, Ken. Let me go over the first quarter guidance. For '26 first quarter, we will be seeing a much stronger than normal seasonality for both our ATM as well as EMS businesses. Based on our current business outlook and exchange rate assumption of USD1 to NTD31.4 versus last quarter it was about NTD30.9. Management projects overall first quarter performance in NT dollar terms to be as follows.

謝謝你，肯。讓我來介紹一下第一季的業績預期。2026 年第一季度，我們的 ATM 和 EMS 業務都將出現比往年更強勁的季節性波動。根據我們目前的業務展望和匯率假設（1 美元兌 31.4 新台幣，而上一季約為 30.9 新台幣），管理層預計第一季以新台幣計價的整體業績如下。

On a consolidated basis, first quarter revenue should decline only by 5% to 7% quarter-over-quarter. First quarter gross margin should decline by 50 basis points to 100 basis points quarter-over-quarter. Our first quarter operating margin should decline by 100 basis points to 150 basis points quarter-over-quarter. For ATM business, our ATM first quarter revenue should decline only by low to mid-single-digit percentage quarter-over-quarter. Gross margin should stay in our structural margin range but fall between 24% to 25%.

從綜合角度來看，第一季營收季減幅度應該只有 5% 到 7%。第一季毛利率預計將季減 50 至 100 個基點。我們第一季的營業利潤率預計將季減 100 至 150 個基點。對於 ATM 業務，我們第一季的 ATM 收入預計只會環比下降個位數百分比（低至中等個位數百分比）。毛利率應保持在我們既定的毛利率範圍內，但會降至 24% 至 25% 之間。

The sequential decline in both revenue and gross margin in first quarter is largely due to less working days and higher labor costs as a result of higher overtime during Lunar New Year holidays. For EMS business, our EMS first quarter revenue and operating margin should be similar with first quarter 2025 levels.

第一季營收和毛利率季減，主要是因為春節假期期間加班增多，導致工作日減少和勞動成本上升。對於 EMS 業務，我們的 EMS 第一季營收和營業利潤率應該與 2025 年第一季的水平相似。

With that, let me give you some color for the full year. For ATM, as Tien mentioned, we expect 2026 leading-edge revenue to at least double compared with last year, while demand continues to significantly exceed supply.

接下來，讓我為大家描繪這一年的色彩。正如Tien所提到的，對於ATM而言，我們預計2026年領先技術的收入將比去年至少翻一番，而需求將繼續顯著超過供應。

As for general market, last year's growth momentum will continue this year given AI proliferation and automotive and industrial sector recovery. On ATM profitability, we're expecting a favorable pricing environment for the year. And as operating leverage continues to improve, we expect ATM gross margins to stay within our structural margin range throughout the year and to improve every quarter, while second half gross margin to reach the upper end of the range.

至於整體市場，鑑於人工智慧的普及以及汽車和工業領域的復甦，去年的成長動能將在今年延續。關於 ATM 獲利能力，我們預期今年的價格環境將較為有利。隨著營運槓桿的持續改善，我們預計全年 ATM 毛利率將保持在我們設定的結構性毛利率範圍內，並且每個季度都會有所改善，而下半年毛利率將達到該範圍的上限。

With increasing mix of lead services and overall testing, expanding scale as well as automation, we are optimistic on our mid- to long-term profitability. Lastly, on CapEx, we will remain aggressive in CapEx spending to support the strong business prospects for 2026 and beyond and to further extend our lead over competition.

隨著領先服務和整體測試的不斷整合、規模的擴大以及自動化程度的提高，我們對中長期獲利能力持樂觀態度。最後，在資本支出方面，我們將繼續積極加大資本支出力度，以支持 2026 年及以後的強勁業務前景，並進一步擴大我們對競爭對手的領先優勢。

This year, we plan to add another USD1.5 billion in machinery on top of last year's USD3.4 billion, of which about 2/3 will be for leading-edge services. Also needed investment in buildings and facilities is expected to be at a similar level versus last year's USD2.1 billion. With that, thank you.

今年，我們計劃在去年投資 34 億美元的基礎上，再增加 15 億美元的機械設備，其中約 2/3 將用於尖端服務。此外，對建築物和設施所需的投資預計也將與去年的 21 億美元持平。謝謝。

Thank you, Joseph. During the Q&A session that follows, we would appreciate if your questions could be as clear and concise as possible and ask singularly. We will start by taking questions from live participants and then alternating questions from our online participants.

謝謝你，約瑟夫。在接下來的問答環節中，我們希望您的問題盡可能清晰簡潔，並且每次只提出一個問題。我們將首先回答現場參與者的問題，然後交替回答線上參與者的問題。

I, as the moderator, will be receiving each question and repeating and directing each ask question. After participants' initial question, he or she may ask a follow-up question, clarifications of the earlier question or another question entirely. Then we will move to the next participant. Participants may return to the queue for any additional questions or clarifications. Thank you. Questions? Can we get the microphone over to Sunny here?

作為主持人，我將接收每一個問題，並重複並引導每一個提問。在參與者提出第一個問題後，他或她可以提出後續問題、對先前問題的澄清，或提出完全不同的問題。接下來我們將介紹下一位參與者。如有其他問題或需要澄清，參與者可以返回隊列。謝謝。問題？我們能把麥克風遞給Sunny嗎？

Thank you very much. Hopefully, not too late to say Happy New Year. So to kick off, so on your LEAP business, you just guided revenue to double to $3.2 billion for this year. So appreciate a bit more color on maybe breakdown by OS, outsourcing, full process and also test.

非常感謝。希望現在說聲新年快樂還不算太晚。首先，關於您的 LEAP 業務，您剛剛預測今年的收入將翻一番，達到 32 億美元。所以，希望能夠更詳細地介紹一下作業系統、外包、完整流程以及測試等方面的細分情況。

So you're looking for a breakdown of our LEAP incremental business for the year.

所以您是想了解我們 LEAP 專案今年的增量業務明細。

I think Tien just mentioned that we're at least going to double our LEAP revenue next year -- this year, I'm sorry. And the momentum continues to be strong. I think there is still further upside if we're not constrained by a lot of the capacity build that we're scrambling at today.

我想Tien剛才提到，我們明年的LEAP收入至少會翻倍——抱歉，今年不會。而且這股勢頭依然強勁。我認為，如果我們不受目前我們正忙於應對的大量產能建設的限制，還有更大的發展空間。

In terms of the breakdown, I think we'll predominantly still be in OS and also on test side will be on the wafer sort. And I think the full process, which is going on track, and we do have engagement with multiple customers, but we're going to start seeing the meaningful revenue contribution by later of the year. And we expect to triple our full process revenue this year to reach about 10% of the overall LEAP service revenue.

就具體情況而言，我認為我們主要還是會集中在作業系統方面，測試方面也會主要集中在晶圓製造方面。我認為整個流程正在按計劃進行，我們也與多家客戶進行了合作，但要到今年晚些時候才能開始看到實質的收入貢獻。我們預計今年全流程收入將成長兩倍，達到 LEAP 服務總收入的 10% 左右。

In terms of final tests, I think we will also be putting a lot of -- most of our focus right now on the wafer sort. In terms of final tests, I think we will start to have a meaningful revenue as well by the later part of the year, and we should have roughly 10% of the business coming from final tests of the wafer -- of the test business coming from final tests.

就最終測試而言，我認為我們現在的大部分精力也將放在晶圓分類上。就最終測試而言，我認為到今年下半年，我們也將開始獲得可觀的收入，並且我們大約 10% 的業務將來自晶圓的最終測試——測試業務中來自最終測試的部分。

Thank you very much. Very helpful. And so I think one highlight from earnings was very strong margin expansion in Q4, given improving utilization rate and also better product mix. And so how should we think about from here? You just guided the IC ATM gross margin to trend towards the high end, maybe towards like high 20% or even 30%. But how should we think about from there?

非常感謝。很有幫助。因此，我認為財報的一大亮點是第四季利潤率的強勁成長，這得益於產能利用率的提高和產品組合的改善。那麼，我們接下來該如何思考呢？你剛剛引導 IC ATM 的毛利率向高端趨勢發展，可能達到 20% 以上甚至 30%。但是，接下來我們該如何思考呢？

Meaning LEAP gross margin should be higher than the structural gross margin trend. And I do think your LEAP gross margin will continue to improve, given better scale and also improvement mix. And so how should we think about maybe going to next two to three years, how high could the gross margin get to?

這意味著 LEAP 毛利率應該高於結構性毛利率趨勢。而我認為，隨著規模擴大和產品組合改善，你們的LEAP毛利率將會持續提高。那我們該如何看待未來兩到三年呢？毛利率能達到多高？

So Sunny, you're looking for a longer-term guidance on overall margins.

所以 Sunny，你是想了解整體利潤率的長期指引嗎？

We would like to take one year at a time. So we'll talk about this next year. Thank you.

我們希望一年一年地來。所以我們明年再來討論這個問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Sunny. Let's give the microphone over to Haas there.

謝謝你，桑尼。讓我們把麥克風交給哈斯。

Yes. Thanks for taking my question. This is Bank of America, Haas. Congrats on the good results and also guidance. I think first one is just regarding your mainstream business outlook for this year. You mentioned you will grow at a similar pace compared with last year. And in the near term, you also have that part of the business above seasonal.

是的。謝謝您回答我的問題。這裡是美國銀行，哈斯分行。恭喜取得好成績，也感謝您的指導。我認為第一個問題是關於您今年的主流業務前景。你提到你的成長速度將與去年持平。短期內，你還有一部分的業務會受到季節性因素影響。

So just wondering what are you seeing regarding shipment versus pricing benefiting on that above seasonal in the near term and also for full year, the breakdown between shipment and also pricing outlook for that part of the mainstream business?

所以我想知道，在短期內以及全年，您如何看待上述季節性因素對出貨量和價格的影響？對於主流業務的這一部分，出貨量和價格前景的細分如何？

And then, I think also related on IC ATM, it's just you mentioned that you will exceed at least USD3.2 billion for the LEAP business for this year. I remember last year, you only mentioned you will reach $1.6 billion. So it doesn't sound like that you're already fully factoring in the potential upside in the LEAP business. Could you also comment on that?

另外，我認為也與 IC ATM 有關，您剛才提到，LEAP 業務今年的收入將至少超過 32 億美元。我記得去年，你只是提到你會達到16億美元。聽起來你似乎還沒有充分考慮到LEAP業務的潛在利益。能否也談談這方面的看法？

So Haas, you've asked two questions here. Going against the rules, huh, very aggressive. So the first question is relating to mainstream business and what we see in the mainstream business in terms of growth. And I'll summarize your second question after this.

哈斯，你在這裡問了兩個問題。這是在違反規則嗎？真是太激進了。所以第一個問題與主流商業有關，以及我們在主流商業的成長方面看到了什麼。接下來我會總結你的第二個問題。

The mainstream business has two sources. The first source is from IoT, automotive, industrial. Those are the general sector that we are familiar with. Not surprisingly, part of the general loading does come from the AI data center. For example, the power management, the switch router.

主流企業有兩個資金來源。第一個來源是物聯網、汽車、工業領域。這些都是我們比較熟悉的領域。不出所料，部分整體負載確實來自人工智慧資料中心。例如，電源管理、交換器路由器。

So as they're building the data center, we have a difficult time to track which part of the general sector loading comes from the AI data center, which part comes from the general, right? But in general, when we talk to our customers, our general sector loading has been quite decent.

因此，在建造資料中心的過程中，我們很難追蹤一般產業負載的哪一部分來自人工智慧資料中心，哪一部分來自一般產業，對吧？但總的來說，當我們與客戶交談時，我們發現我們一般行業的負荷情況相當不錯。

The pricing environment, I would say, friendly. I will not comment on pricing increase or any customer-specific information. The only thing I might comment is, the gold price, the substrate price, whatever the price is going up, then it's up to us and the customer.

我認為定價環境很友善。我不會對價格上漲或任何客戶相關資訊發表評論。我唯一想說的是，黃金價格、基材價格，無論什麼價格上漲，那都取決於我們和客戶。

We do have long-term service agreement. In general, it's a friendly environment. Should I answer the LEAP? Well, the second question is the, last quarter, we talked about $1.6 billion, most likely will go to $2.6 billion. And this time, we revised to $3.2 billion.

我們確實有長期服務協議。總的來說，這裡的環境很友善。我應該回答 LEAP 問題嗎？第二個問題是，上個季度我們談到了 16 億美元，很可能會達到 26 億美元。這次，我們把數字修正為 32 億美元。

And you're asking what happened? Because three months later, we have a better visibility about our factory space. I have already said many times, actually, the demand is far beyond the capacity that we're capable of building. And I remember last year, one of you asked us, if this is so good, why don't you just do it? We are.

你問發生了什麼事？因為三個月後，我們對廠房空間有了更清楚的了解。事實上，我已經多次說過，需求遠遠超過了我們目前的生產能力。我記得去年，你們當中有人問我們，如果這東西這麼好，為什麼不直接去做呢？我們是。

However, we have to manage the quality, the delivery, all of the resource planning, and these are complicated progress. Processes, equipment lead time and all of the management and also the engineering training, they're not easy. And we just try to do this very, very carefully. So right now, our CFO and myself, our best view is we believe we can achieve $3.2 billion comfortably, right? And over time, if we have any good news, you'll be the first one to know.

但是，我們必須管理品質、交付、所有資源規劃，這些都是複雜的進展過程。流程、設備交付週期、所有管理工作以及工程培訓，這些都不容易。我們只是盡量非常非常謹慎地去做這件事。所以目前，我和財務長都認為我們可以輕鬆實現 32 億美元的目標，對吧？以後如果有好消息，您一定會第一時間知道。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Let's see if I can go online.

我看看能不能連接網路。

We have Mr. Gokul Hariharan from JPMorgan.

我們邀請到了摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan 先生。

Hi. Can you hear me?

你好。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for taking my question.

是的。謝謝。謝謝您回答我的問題。

We can't hear him.

我們聽不到他的聲音。

Gokul?

戈庫爾？

Can you hear me now?

現在能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes, you are on the line, but we had some technical issues here.

是的，您還在通話中，但我們這裡出現了一些技術問題。

Okay.

好的。

The audience on the floor cannot hear you?

樓下的觀眾聽不到你說話嗎？

Let's ask Gokul to hold off for one second. We can pass -- as you guys fix the technical issue, let's transfer over to Charlie over there.

我們請戈庫爾稍等片刻。我們可以過關──你們先解決技術問題，我們把電話轉接到那邊的查理那裡。

Ken, let me try to fill the void. And Dr. Wu, Joseph, good afternoon. So my first question actually is about your subsidiary, USI, they announced the acquisition of EugenLight for the CPO repeat component, the optical engine. So I'm wondering what does it mean to the ASE group overall for your CPO business? And going forward, how you're going to split the process between yourself and also USI?

肯，讓我來填補這個空缺吧。吳博士，約瑟夫，下午好。所以我的第一個問題實際上是關於你們的子公司 USI，他們宣布收購 EugenLight，以獲得 CPO 重複組件（光學引擎）。所以我想知道這對 ASE 集團整體而言，對你們的 CPO 業務意味著什麼？接下來，你打算如何分擔你和USI之間的工作流程？

Charlie, you're asking about our fiberoptic acquisition at EMS, EugenLight. Do we have a comment on that?

Charlie，你問的是我們EMS的光纖收購專案EugenLight。我們對此有何評論？

The optical business is an important direction for the industry. Everybody understands that. At ASE, we're working with our foundry partner as well as the end customer, trying to implement the silicon photonics part of it, which is a CPO. At a system level, it is not a CPO. However, the optical, it needs to go through from the chip to the packaging as well as to the system as well as to the optical transceiver as well as to the rack and beyond.

光學業務是該行業的重要發展方向。大家都明白這一點。在 ASE，我們正與我們的代工廠合作夥伴以及最終客戶合作，努力實現其中的矽光子部分，即 CPO。從系統層面來看，它不是 CPO。然而，光訊號需要從晶片經過封裝，再到系統，再到光收發器，再到機架以及更遠的地方。

So I think the optical technology as well as business, it goes very pervasive and very, very long. I think what you mentioned is USI is trying to piece together early deployment in terms of the future optical road map, and this is part of it. And I announced the silicon photonics quite a few years ago. The whole industry is trying to do early deployment and development and positioning. And I think we are going to see some early volume on the silicon and the CPO part of it. And if that goes well, and I believe the volume will start catching up.

所以我認為光學技術以及商業都非常普及，而且影響深遠。我認為你提到的是，USI 正在努力將早期部署融入未來的光學路線圖，而這正是其中的一部分。我早在幾年前就宣布了矽光子學技術。整個產業都在努力進行早期部署、開發和定位。我認為我們將會看到矽和 CPO 部分出現一些早期銷售。如果進展順利，我相信銷量會開始趕上。

So the technology development, the manufacturing capacity development needs to happen well before that. So I think this is the USI and the ASE story. There is no conflict. However, it is important that if we can manage the silicon, the CPO, the packaging, we need to have a good know-how as well as inside knowledge on the system level such that we can support our customers on the overall system optimization if we need to switch hybrid or electrical all the way to optical, right? It's a very long question, I gave you a longer answer.

因此，技術發展和製造能力發展需要在此之前很久就完成。所以我認為這就是USI和ASE的故事。不存在衝突。但是，如果我們能夠管理矽、CPO、封裝，那麼我們需要具備良好的專業知識以及系統層面的內部知識，以便在需要從混合或電信號一直過渡到光信號時，能夠支持我們的客戶進行整體系統優化，對嗎？這是一個很長的問題，所以我給了你一個比較長的答案。

So it seems like ASE get involved deeply, right, in the CPO supply chain. And we do hear there are some kind of technical challenging, for example, put together, there's a major compute die with those FAU together on a substrate. So I'm wondering is ASE very critical to solve this problem? Or it's more like your foundry partner figure out how to work it and then outsource to you guys with the missed production.

所以看來 ASE 確實深度參與了 CPO 供應鏈，對吧。我們確實聽說這在技術上存在一些挑戰，例如，將那些 FAU 整合到一個主要的計算晶片上，並將其安裝在基板上。所以我想知道 ASE 對於解決這個問題是否至關重要？或者更像是你的代工廠夥伴想辦法解決這個問題，然後把耽誤的生產工作外包給你們。

Charlie, you're looking for clarification on the actual processes that we can be involved with on CPO?

查理，你是想了解我們在CPO專案中可以參與的具體流程嗎？

It's a very difficult question because at the silicon level, the technology complexity is very, very different. So the foundry partner, they can be working on like a really, really complicated issues, right? And this, you're dealing with at the silicon level, how they convert the light out. So I will not comment on that. So I have partner addressing those.

這是一個非常困難的問題，因為在矽晶片層面，技術的複雜性截然不同。所以，代工廠合作夥伴可能正在處理非常非常複雜的問題，對吧？而這正是矽晶片層面上的問題，即它們如何將光轉換成電子。所以我對此不予置評。所以我安排了合作夥伴來解決這些問題。

I also have partner addressing more traditional way. If you do the photo or if you do the electrical separately, and those are more existing. So at our level, we have to manage the really complex PIC, EIC together or separately and via different kind of stacking configuration. For example, chip-to-chip, chip-to-packaging, chip-to-rack. So at the packaging level, I will not say it is easier or more difficult.

我還有一位合作夥伴，他採用的是更傳統的方式。如果你單獨拍攝照片或進行電氣作業，那麼這些就更容易實現了。因此，在我們這個層面上，我們必須管理非常複雜的 PIC 和 EIC，無論是一起管理還是分開管理，以及透過不同的堆疊配置。例如，晶片到晶片、晶片到封裝、晶片到機架。所以就包裝層面而言，我不會說它更容易還是更難。

I think packaging level is easier. However, you have to go much, much deeper because you have to deal with different alternative of the electrical source, the light source and different configuration, different memory and who connects to what, right? At a system level, I will not say it's easier, but you got to go deeper. So the beauty about Taiwan is, we have the chip, we have the CPO, substrate. We also have the system. So in terms of sharing co-optimization trade-off, I believe within this ecosystem, you have a much better chance to hit the first product.

我認為包裝層面比較容易。但是，你必須深入研究，因為你必須處理不同的電源、光源和不同的配置、不同的記憶體以及誰連接到什麼，對吧？從系統層面來說，我不會說這件事比較容易，但你需要深入研究。所以台灣的優勢在於，我們有晶片，我們有CPO，有基板。我們也有這套系統。因此，就共享協同優化權衡而言，我認為在這個生態系統中，你更有可能成功推出第一個產品。

Thanks for your clarification. So my next question is to Joseph.

謝謝你的解釋。那麼我的下一個問題是問約瑟夫的。

I think you got your two questions there. Sorry. Let's try to go see if we can get to online again. Is it working?

我覺得你已經問到那兩個問題了。對不起。我們試試看能不能再連接網路。它能用嗎？

Hello? Can you hear me now?

你好？現在能聽到我說話嗎？

Yeah, I can hear you. But the audience on the floor cannot hear you.

是的，我聽得到你說話。但是樓下的觀眾聽不到你的聲音。

Can you put the microphone to your ear piece.

請把麥克風貼到耳塞上。

Can you try again, Gokul?

戈庫爾，你能再試一次嗎？

Yeah, hi. Is it better now?

嗨，你好。現在好些了嗎？

Still doesn't work. Can you write down your questions in the Q&A session?

還是不行。您可以在問答環節寫下您的問題嗎？

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Do we have further questions over here? Let's go to Rick over here.

我們這邊還有其他問題嗎？我們去找瑞克吧。

Yeah, hi. Dr. Wu, Joseph and Ken, I just got one question here. Regarding your EMS, it seems to me it has been quite muted over the past two years. Are you guys strategically downsizing your EMS business only focusing on what adds the most value? The reason why I'm asking is because I remember you used to fund a big chunk of your EMS from consumer, like a SIP, for example, wearable, et cetera. So can you give us more color about your strategy about your EMS going forward?

嗨，你好。吳醫生、約瑟夫和肯，我這裡只有一個問題。關於你們的緊急醫療服務，在我看來，過去兩年它的發展相當緩慢。你們是否正在策略性地縮減EMS業務規模，只專注於那些最有價值的業務？我這麼問是因為我記得你們過去常常從消費者那裡獲得很大一部分EMS資金，例如SIP、穿戴式裝置等等。那麼，您能否詳細介紹一下貴公司未來在急救醫療服務方面的策略？

The EMS business has a few angles, alright? First is your competitive landscape. The competitive landscape inevitably have to deal with the geographical location. And then the second angle will be either the consumer AI or the futuristic sector. And then you will talk about the synergy between the ATM business and the USA business.

EMS（緊急醫療服務）產業涉及多個方面，明白嗎？首先是你的競爭格局。競爭格局必然與地理位置有關。第二個角度不是消費人工智慧，就是未來科技領域。然後您將討論 ATM 業務與美國業務之間的協同效應。

And I'll try to answer this in a very, very brief way, okay? So what has transpired in the last few years is, we understand our consumer business has ramped to a level that we're comfortable with. But we are facing competition. Also, we're feeling constrained. At the same time, this AI sector and also the AI emerging general sector, I really don't know how to describe it.

我會盡量用最簡短的方式回答這個問題，好嗎？因此，在過去的幾年裡，我們了解到我們的消費者業務已經發展到我們感到滿意的水平。但我們面臨競爭。此外，我們也感到受到了限制。同時，人工智慧領域以及人工智慧新興的整個領域，我真的不知道該如何描述。

In the AI data center, for example, you have the glass, as one example, which is really not a consumer, it's more related to the AI space. Then you have the optical, which optical has been there forever. But because of the data center, we're pushing the system-level optimization to a brand-new level. And I can give you a few examples. The optical is one example, power supply, absolutely is the second angle.

例如，在人工智慧資料中心，你會看到玻璃，就拿它來說，它實際上並不是消費者，它更與人工智慧領域相關。然後還有光學器件，這種光學器件一直都在那裡。但由於資料中心的出現，我們將系統級優化提升到了一個全新的水平。我可以舉幾個例子。光纖元件就是一個例子，電源絕對是第二個角度。

You will have optical transformation or upgrade or paradigm shift. You have a power delivery paradigm shift. All of this are hinting us with AI, also the system level optimization. There are good opportunities we can divert the resource and start more synergistically with the ATM part of the business, and that's called the realignment or recalibration. So what we have hinted, which we will report in the next few quarters is, in the AI space of consumer what are the activity that we're engaging.

你將經歷光學上的變革、升級或典範轉移。電力傳輸方式發生了根本性的轉變。所有這些都在暗示我們人工智慧以及系統級優化的重要性。我們有機會將資源轉移到 ATM 業務中，從而實現更協同的發展，稱為重新調整或重新校準。因此，我們已經暗示過，並將在接下來的幾個季度中公佈的是，在人工智慧消費領域，我們正在進行哪些活動。

Also in the AI data center or AI enable or AI motivated system-level optimization what are the efforts that we're making. So I think in the next few years, you will see a much stronger vintage in that direction. So no, we're not trying to downsize, but the market is shifting the geographic positioning is changing, the requirement of customers changing. So we just have to change accordingly.

此外，在人工智慧資料中心、人工智慧賦能或人工智慧驅動的系統級優化方面，我們正在做出哪些努力？所以我認為在未來幾年，你會看到這方面有更強勁的趨勢。所以，不，我們不是要縮減規模，而是市場正在改變，地理定位正在改變，客戶的需求也在改變。所以我們必須做出相對應的改變。

Thank you. Just one quick follow-up. So how long would this transition take? So meaning that this year, your EMS will continue to undergrow your ATM? How long this transition would take before your EMS catch up the corporate average?

謝謝。還有一個後續問題。那麼，這個過渡過程需要多長時間？所以這意味著今年你們的緊急醫療服務體系（EMS）將繼續落後於你們的自動櫃員機（ATM）嗎？貴公司的急救醫療服務體系需要多久才能達到公司平均？

I think this year, we are growing. Yes, this year, we're -- well, okay. So the question is the, okay, your ATM is growing very fast. I view that as a good news because the sector change, you tend to go to leadership and ASE happened to be a member, a key member of this leadership cluster.

我認為今年我們取得了進步。是的，今年，我們——還不錯。所以問題是，好吧，你的ATM成長非常快。我認為這是一個好消息，因為行業變革往往會促使企業走向領導層，而 ASE 恰好是這個領導集群中的關鍵成員。

And then I think you were seeing some significant input on the EMS part of it. For the last few years, there has been a lot of design in pipeline, and hopefully, we can give you a better view into the revenue contribution. But as soon as this year, it's not the -- yes.

然後我認為你會看到一些關於緊急醫療服務（EMS）方面的重要意見。過去幾年，我們有許多設計項目正在籌備中，希望我們能讓您更了解這些項目對收入的貢獻。但就今年而言，情況並非如此——是的。

So do we want to give a try?

那我們想試試看嗎？

I can read out your questions.

我可以把你的問題唸出來。

I think we're trying to use a speaker phone methodology to microphone, very, MacGyver like.

我認為我們正在嘗試使用免持電話的方法來安裝麥克風，非常像麥克蓋弗的做法。

Okay. Third time lucky, I guess.

好的。看來第三次就成功了。

Perfect.

完美的。

Alright. You could finally hear me.

好吧。你終於能聽到我說話了。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks for going through all the trouble. First question, Dr. Wu, given this very strong CapEx continuing in '26, could we understand how much of this is going to full process packaging. And when we look forward, how big is your full process business likely to scale from the 10% of LEAP this year? Can it get to like 30%, 40% of the total revenue eventually in like a two to three year time frame?

感謝你費盡心思。吳博士，第一個問題是，鑑於 2026 年資本支出持續強勁成長，我們能否了解其中有多少將用於全流程包裝？展望未來，您的全流程業務今年可望從 LEAP 的 10% 規模擴展到多大？在兩到三年內，它最終能否達到總收入的 30% 到 40%？

And I also wanted to understand whether it aligns with your partners' future plans? Because right now, there is a bit of a division of labor between you and your partner, but full process kind of a little bit of competition with them, but just wanted to understand how it aligns with their future plans.

我還想了解這是否符合您合作夥伴的未來計劃？因為目前你和你的伴侶之間存在一些勞動分工，但從整體上看，你們之間也存在一些競爭關係，我只是想了解這與你們未來的計劃有何關聯。

Gokul wants to know about our full process plans and such.

Gokul想了解我們的完整流程計劃等等。

Well, as Joseph already talked about, out of the $3.2 billion, we're looking at about 10% full process revenue by the end of this year. There are a few clarifications. We're not competing. And this is part of the cluster ideas, right? Because the wafer level, the foundry partner they will have the first right, the first knowledge and the first need to come up with the different configuration, 2.5D or 3D packaging.

正如 Joseph 已經提到的，在 32 億美元中，我們預計到今年年底將有約 10% 的資金實現全面流程收入。有幾點需要澄清。我們之間不存在競爭關係。這是集群理念的一部分，對吧？因為在晶圓層面，代工廠合作夥伴擁有第一權利、第一個知識和第一個需求，可以提出不同的配置，2.5D 或 3D 封裝。

The long-term prospect or motivation, how long or how big do they want to grow the business is up to the foundry partner. Our understanding is, if we're fully capable of executing customers as well as partner would like to have second source, right? Therefore, there will be technology sharing not on the OS side, but also on the full process. Now the configuration is a big question, right? It's complicated.

長期前景或動機，他們希望將業務發展多久或多大，取決於代工廠合作夥伴。我們的理解是，如果我們完全有能力執行，那麼客戶和合作夥伴都希望有第二個資源，對嗎？因此，不僅作業系統方面會有技術共享，整個流程方面也會有技術共享。現在配置是個大問題，對吧？情況很複雜。

As the HBM and also the TPU size grows, the wafer level, the panel level, they have all different configurations of stacking big panel substrate. So the technology also evolved very, very quickly between the foundry process and know-how, between the customer cost, architectural and design requirements and the packaging. This is where the co-optimization and the collaboration will come in.

隨著 HBM 和 TPU 尺寸的增大，無論是在晶圓級還是面板級，它們都有各種不同的堆疊大型面板基板的配置。因此，鑄造工藝和技術訣竅、客戶成本、建築和設計要求以及封裝之間的技術發展也非常非常迅速。這就需要協同優化和協作了。

Now everybody has the question, why you're spending so much CapEx? What if the customer switch? First, you have to understand it's not a one customer thing. They are mainly many customers. Are they competing? In a way. But in a way, they're not competing. They're trying to fulfill the diversification of the AI space in all kinds of inference, all kinds of learning large language model. It's a very, very big market.

現在大家都在問，你們為什麼要投入這麼多資本支出？如果客戶更換了怎麼辦？首先，你要明白這不是單一客戶的問題。他們主要是眾多顧客。他們是競爭對手嗎？某種程度上來說。但從某種意義上來說，它們之間並不存在競爭關係。他們正努力滿足人工智慧領域在各種推理、各種大型語言模型學習方面的多元需求。這是一個非常非常大的市場。

This is the beginning. What we are trying to do is as fast as we can come out with alternative and the toolbox. So our partner, the designers will have the total freedom to pick and choose whichever way they want to put this together for whichever application.

這是開始。我們正在努力盡快推出替代方案和工具箱。因此，我們的合作夥伴，也就是設計師們，將擁有完全的自由，可以根據任何應用場景，選擇他們想要的任何組合方式。

I'm telling you 90% of the application we couldn't see yet. This is why the AI is so exciting, right? So with that, I think our CapEx is fine. The partnership collaboration, competition is healthy. All the iteration and the fast evolution of technology from our customer is not a penalty for us, it's actually very, very healthy for the industry. And being the first mover in the Taiwan, first-mover cluster, you will have some natural advantage. So I believe this is the good time for us to do this.

我告訴你，我們目前還看不到申請資料中 90% 的內容。這就是人工智慧如此令人興奮的原因，對吧？所以，我認為我們的資本支出沒問題。合作、競爭是良性的。客戶不斷迭代和快速的技術發展對我們來說不是壞事，實際上對整個產業來說非常非常有益。作為台灣的先行者，作為先行者集群中的先行者，您將擁有一些天然的優勢。所以我認為現在是我們做這件事的好時機。

Thanks, Dr. Wu. Thank you very much. That's very clear. Second question, we did mention we are expecting the mainstream demand to keep growing similar to 2025, 10%-plus. Within that, obviously, PC and smartphone related, especially smartphone-related is a pretty big chunk, and some of your larger customers have been turning down on the smartphone demand for the last few weeks or so. So how does this kind of sit within this expectation of mainstream demand continuing to grow at a similar pace? I'm sure you've done your math and come up with this assumption, but can you explain a little bit.

謝謝吳醫生。非常感謝。這一點很清楚。第二個問題，我們確實提到過，我們預計主流需求將持續成長，到 2025 年將達到 10% 以上。其中，顯然，PC 和智慧型手機相關業務，尤其是智慧型手機相關業務，佔據了相當大的份額，而你們的一些大客戶在過去幾週一直在減少對智慧型手機的需求。那麼，在主流需求持續以類似速度成長的預期下，這種情況該如何解釋呢？我相信你已經計算過並得出這個假設，但你能稍微解釋一下嗎？

So Gokul is looking for characterization of our outlook on our mainstream market.

所以 Gokul 希望了解我們對主流市場的看法。

The mainstream market, the ASE has a large market share on the communication or the cell phone. Again, it's a good news, right? And thanks to our customer and long-term support. That sector will continue. There could be some fluctuation that I will not go into detail.

在主流市場，ASE 在通訊或手機領域擁有很大的市場佔有率。這又是一個好消息，對吧？感謝我們的客戶一直以來的支持。該行業將繼續存在。可能會有一些波動，但我不會詳細說明。

But please remember, we are fully loaded. The AI data center now has the FPGA, microcontroller, power management, router and all kinds of loading coming to ASE. And you understand that we have signed -- we bought two factories for Infineon. We have also announced we are buying another factory in Penang for ADI. We already announced that.

但請記住，我們裝備齊全。AI 資料中心現在有 FPGA、微控制器、電源管理、路由器以及各種負載都來自 ASE。你應該明白，我們已經簽署了協議——我們為英飛凌收購了兩家工廠。我們也宣布，我們將為ADI在檳城收購另一家工廠。我們已經宣布過了。

That is most likely to close in Q2 this year. With all of this, the Infineon loading, the ADI loading, they're also coming to us as part of the acquisition, also the co-optimization and the co-design for today's device and system as well as for the next-generation device and system.

最有可能在今年第二季完成。所有這些，包括英飛凌的投入、ADI 的投入，它們也作為收購的一部分來到我們這裡，同時，我們也將針對當今的設備和系統以及下一代設備和系統進行共同優化和共同設計。

So when I talk about there's a general sector recovery, I truly mean it. I have seen industrial automotive recovery. On top of that, I have unknown demand, could be AI data center, could be not, from the same guys asking us to run up the loading.

所以，當我談到整體產業復甦時，我是認真的。我見證了汽車工業的復甦。除此之外，我還收到一些未知的需求，可能是人工智慧資料中心，也可能不是，但都是同一批人要求我們提高負載。

And of course, because our fully automated general process, we could be gaining market share. And that we have to look at ASE versus our competitor in all different spaces. I will not comment on that. But in general, we feel comfortable for 2026 and beyond for our general sector recovery.

當然，由於我們擁有全自動化的通用流程，我們有可能獲得市場份額。我們必須從各個方面將 ASE 與我們的競爭對手進行比較。我對此不予置評。但總的來說，我們對2026年及以後的整體產業復甦感到樂觀。

Got it. Very, very clear. Thank you very much.

知道了。非常非常清楚。非常感謝。

Do we want to go to who, another online Laura?

我們想去找誰？另一個網路上的勞拉嗎？

Hi. Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Can you hear me?

你好。是的。您好，下午好。你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes. I thank you very much for taking my questions and also Congrats for the great results. I also have questions on the LEAP business. Actually, we see that there's various different type of advanced packaging as Dr. Tien mentioned that. Definitely, we see the great chance as he has seen promising growth with the AI chip involving, but we see that the chips and die sizes are getting more compact, and there are various different type of, like a panel base, even some are talking about the chip-on-wafer-on-PCB.

是的。非常感謝您回答我的問題，也祝賀您取得了優異的成績。我對LEAP業務也有一些疑問。事實上，正如田博士所提到的那樣，我們看到有各種不同類型的先進包裝。確實，我們看到了巨大的機遇，因為他看到了人工智慧晶片帶來的可喜增長，但我們也看到晶片和晶片尺寸越來越小，而且有各種不同的類型，例如面板底座，甚至有人在談論晶圓上晶片在印刷電路板上的應用。

So can you share with us your plans on various packaging type and also your strategic focus? And how should ASE fit and leverage your technology to get into these different type of packaging going forward.

那麼，您能否和我們分享您在各種包裝類型方面的計劃以及您的策略重點？那麼，ASE 應該如何適應並利用自身的技術，才能在未來進入這些不同類型的包裝領域？

Alright. So the question, again, it's a loaded question. Now because of the AI system demand, there are two family of thoughts. We believe that the chip will get bigger. Therefore, the wafer size will get bigger. Therefore, the chiplet size will get bigger. And therefore, the 3D, the 2.5D and the HBM will get bigger, which is why you need the silicon photonics, which is why you need a new conceptual power delivery method to provide the vertical power supply. That's one family thought.

好吧。所以，這個問題，再說一遍，是一個有預設條件的問題。現在由於人工智慧系統的需求，出現了兩種不同的學派。我們相信晶片的尺寸會越來越大。因此，晶圓尺寸會越來越大。因此，晶片尺寸會越來越大。因此，3D、2.5D 和 HBM 將會越來越大，這就是為什麼需要矽光子學，這就是為什麼需要一種新的概念性供電方式來提供垂直供電。這是其中一個家庭的想法。

The second family thought is because of the efficiency of design, everything will go smaller, okay? I will not get into that debate. All I can tell you is the last four years, things just got bigger, right? Therefore, ASE will prepare both. If you can handle this in the 300-millimeter wafer form, we got that already. But if the chiplet size, the requirement are going unreasonably large, we will have the 310x310 panel to give you a better relief. Now will the 310x310 go to 620x620?

第二個家庭的想法是，由於設計的效率，所有東西都會變得更小，好嗎？我不想參與這場爭論。我只能告訴你，過去四年裡，事情變得越來越大，對吧？因此，ASE將同時準備這兩樣東西。如果可以接受 300 毫米晶圓形式的方案，我們已經做到了。但如果晶片尺寸或需求變得過大，我們將提供 310x310 面板，為您提供更好的解決方案。現在解析度會從 310x310 升級到 620x620 嗎？

Depending on the volume, also the technology requirement. Also, our process capability, can we handle a larger panel size with the kind of resolution and I/O count they require? But ASE's job is by the end of this year, we will have a fully automated 310x310 in production. Today, we already have manual. But in my view, the manual process doesn't count.

根據產量而定，技術要求也會有所不同。此外，我們的工藝能力能否滿足他們所需的更大尺寸面板的分辨率和 I/O 數量要求？但 ASE 的目標是到今年年底，我們將實現 310x310 全自動生產線的投產。如今，我們已經有了操作手冊。但在我看來，人工操作不算數。

I can only count in this space, it needs to be fully light out. By the end of this year, we'll have that. That will provide the first try in the throughput and cost improvement on all of the wafer level process that we do. Now our foundry partner and our customer will continue to drive the different configuration. I cannot comment.

我只能在這個空間裡數數，而且必須完全亮著燈才行。到今年年底，我們就能實現這個目標。這將為我們所有晶圓級製程的產能和成本改進提供首次嘗試。現在，我們的代工廠合作夥伴和客戶將繼續推動不同的配置方案。我無可奉告。

Our job is to provide all the toolboxes. So pending on your resolution I/O and cost requirement, we will give you different options. And I'm comfortable to say that Taiwan cluster overall, we have the most toolbox and the best option with capacity in place. We will be the fastest to ramp up in the world. ASE being part of this ecosystem on the packaging world, we are responsible to provide more packaging level toolbox, including panel, including CPO, including the next-generation power delivery for the VRM though we have not talked much about it.

我們的工作是提供所有必要的工具箱。因此，根據您的解析度、輸入/輸出要求和成本要求，我們將為您提供不同的選擇。我可以很肯定地說，就台灣集群而言，我們擁有最齊全的工具箱和最佳方案，並且具備相應的能力。我們將是全球產能提升速度最快的公司。作為封裝領域生態系統的一部分，日月光有責任提供更多封裝級工具箱，包括面板、CPO、以及下一代VRM供電技術，儘管我們對此談論不多。

But the whole idea is, we will leverage this opportunity to strengthen our portfolio and the R&D in-depth understanding about the system requirement. It's not just CoWoS. It's not just the full process. It's after this AI boom, the following through system-level paradigm shift improvement, we need to put all of this in place. And this is part of the ASE's vision.

但關鍵在於，我們將利用這個機會加強我們的產品組合，並加深研發人員對系統需求的理解。不僅僅是 CoWoS。這不僅僅是整個過程。正是在人工智慧蓬勃發展之後，透過系統層面的典範轉移改進，我們需要將這一切落實到位。這也是ASE願景的一部分。

We will co-work with foundry as well as our USI EMS arm as well as the other system assembler partner and trying to come up with a total solution from chip all the way to system long term. Very comprehensive, very exciting.

我們將與代工廠、我們的 USI EMS 部門以及其他系統組裝合作夥伴共同努力，爭取從晶片到系統的長期整體解決方案。內容非常全面，非常精彩。

yeah, thank you very much. Very comprehensive. Very exciting. My second question is about the gross margin. As we see that actually these advanced packaging contribution continue going up. And overall, we see that ASP trend is more friendly, as you just mentioned. Can we kind of expect the overall ATM gross margin later this year we'll be able to reach 30% or potentially to be higher?

是的，非常感謝。非常全面。太令人興奮了。我的第二個問題是關於毛利率的。我們看到，這些先進封裝技術的貢獻其實還在持續成長。總的來說，正如你剛才提到的，我們看到平均售價趨勢更加友善。我們能否預期今年稍後 ATM 的整體毛利率能夠達到 30% 甚至更高？

Laura has a question in terms of the ceiling of our structural margin.

勞拉對我們結構性利潤空間的上限有一個疑問。

Right.

正確的。

As I explained earlier on, I think, first of all, this year -- starting from second half of last year, we already started to see the improvement in our operating leverage as we continue to improve our ramp-up. And I think for this year, we are confident to say that we will see throughout the whole year, every quarter, we will have our gross margin fall into the structural range.

正如我之前解釋的那樣，我認為，首先，從去年下半年開始，隨著我們不斷提高產能利用率，我們已經開始看到營運槓桿的改善。而且我認為，我們有信心在今年全年，每個季度，我們的毛利率都會落入結構性範圍內。

And so in the first quarter, we will see -- well, our margin will be between 24% to 25%. And then sequentially, every quarter, we will see continuous improvement in our margin. And also by a second half of the year, we will see our gross margin closing in on the upper end of the structural margin.

因此，在第一季度，我們將看到——我們的利潤率將在 24% 到 25% 之間。然後，每個季度，我們的利潤率都會持續提高。此外，到下半年，我們的毛利率將接近結構性毛利率的上限。

There's further room for improvement as we continue to reach an optimal ramp-up stage and we -- in local term, as we continue to expand our leading edge services, expand our testing business, also continue to reach a full ramp-up, I think there's further room for improvement. But as Tien mentioned, in terms of the margin movement, we will take one year at a time and see how the product mix will shift and how the utilization will improve to see whether we need to adjust our margin guidelines.

隨著我們不斷達到最佳產能提升階段，還有進一步改進的空間。就本地而言，隨著我們不斷擴展前沿服務、擴展測試業務，並繼續全面提升產能，我認為還有進一步改進的空間。但正如 Tien 所提到的，就利潤率變動而言，我們將逐年觀察，看看產品組合將如何變化以及利用率將如何提高，以確定我們是否需要調整利潤率指導方針。

Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. Very forward looking that. Thank you.

是的。偉大的。非常感謝。非常有前瞻性。謝謝。

I'm sorry, I don't know your name. Please, name and company, please.

抱歉，我不知道你的名字。請提供姓名和公司名稱。

Hello Joseph and Dr. Wu. My name is Alan Patterson. I'm with EE Times. You mentioned that you're buying clean room space from foundries. And I would just like to know, is that a first? I've heard from people in the supply chain that this is something that -- advanced packaging is something that's been done primarily by TSMC. So I'm just wondering if this move into advanced packaging, like 2.5, 3D is this something new?

約瑟夫和吳博士，你們好。我的名字是艾倫·帕特森。我來自 EE Times。你提到你正在從鑄造廠購買無塵室空間。我想知道，這是第一次嗎？我從供應鏈中的一些人那裡了解到，先進封裝技術主要是台積電在做的。所以我想知道，這種向先進包裝（例如 2.5D、3D 包裝）的轉變是否是新的趨勢？

The gentleman would like some clarification on clean room specifications related to advanced packaging.

這位先生想了解一些與先進包裝相關的無塵室規範方面的資訊。

First of all, I said that we're buying factory with clean rooms already built from partners. I did not specify foundry partners. We have many partners. And also in terms of doing the full process, 2.5D, no, it is not new for ASE. We have been doing this for quite some time.

首先，我說過，我們正在向合作夥伴購買已經建造的無塵室工廠。我沒有具體說明代工廠合作夥伴。我們有很多合作夥伴。至於完成整個流程，2.5D，不，這對 ASE 來說並不新鮮。我們這樣做已經有一段時間了。

And then maybe a follow-up question. Is Photonics a new area for you? You had mentioned that this is something that you're moving into. I mean there are many different flavors of photonics. So I wonder if there's any one that you see with greater potential for your company.

然後或許還會有一個後續問題。光子學對您來說是一個全新的領域嗎？你曾經提到過，這是你即將搬進去的地方。我的意思是，光子學有很多不同的分支。所以我想知道，您認為有沒有哪位候選人對貴公司更有潛力？

You would like an outlook in terms of how we view the CPO market.

您想了解我們對 CPO 市場的看法。

Well, Photonics is a new technology. It represents a paradigm shift. And I think there will be a first-mover coming in, and then we will see how the first-mover fares, right? I will not comment, there are different alternatives. And we always believe that different alternatives will serve different solutions for different architectural requirements.

光子學是一項新技術。它代表著一種範式轉移。我認為會有一個先行者進入這個市場，然後我們看看這個先行者表現如何，對吧？我不予置評，還有其他選擇。我們始終認為，不同的方案能夠為不同的建築需求提供不同的解決方案。

So we will not take size in terms of the -- there's a high end, midrange and also low end and different requirements, between the scaled up, the scaled out chip-to-chip level, chip-to-package level or the package-to-package level, they're all different, right?

所以，我們不會從尺寸的角度來考慮——有高端、中端和低端，以及不同的要求，從晶片級、晶片封裝級到封裝級，它們都是不同的，對吧？

So again, our job is to develop the toolboxes for the designers, so they can -- they have the freedom to choose based on whatever. But keep in mind, the electronic signal and also the optical signal it is continuous. You got to go through all the way. And our job is to make sure that whatever technology is not limited to any kind of segment. You just need to go all the way down at a different cost of the potential.

所以，我們的工作是為設計師開發工具箱，這樣他們就可以——他們可以自由地根據任何因素進行選擇。但請記住，電子訊號和光訊號都是連續的。你必須一路走到最後。我們的工作是確保任何技術都不會局限於任何類型的領域。你只需要付出與預期不同的代價，才能獲得這樣的潛力。

We're going to restart the queue here. So Haas, do you want to ask another question?

我們將重新開始排隊。哈斯，你還有什麼問題嗎？

I think just a quick follow-up on your CapEx because you mentioned you have a lot of amazing demand opportunity, no matter it is in mainstream or in the AI space going forward. But just wondering if you could share with us your view just regarding the capital intensity targets because this year, you definitely grow your CapEx from the amount perspective. But your sales definitely seems to be outgrowing this year based on your guidance just now.

我想就您的資本支出問題快速跟進一下，因為您提到無論未來是在主流領域還是在人工智慧領域，您都有很多巨大的需求機會。但我想問您能否就資本密集度目標分享一下您的看法，因為今年您的資本支出金額肯定會增加。但根據您剛才的描述，今年的銷售額肯定比往年成長更快。

So just wondering if you have a guidance or a view on your capital intensity in the longer term, how should we think about the pace that you are going to grow your capacity versus your customers' demand? How would you balance that?

所以我想知道您對長期資本密集度是否有任何指導或看法，我們應該如何看待您產能成長的速度與客戶需求之間的關係？你會如何平衡這兩方面？

Haas is looking for a financial balance in terms of how we view our capital intensity over time and how that moves and changes.

哈斯正在尋求財務平衡，這體現在我們看待資本密集度隨時間推移的變化方式。

There is no guideline. CapEx, Joseph and I, we were very comfortable with $2 billion for the longest time. And then for some reason, we just showed up $4 billion. And then we showed up like $5 billion. And then Joseph talks about even bigger number. I'm not comfortable. I think he is not comfortable. We're all under pressure. Long term, there's a little half of me saying that, yes, there are more. Half of me saying, I'm sure we're doing the right thing.

沒有相關準則。很長一段時間以來，我和約瑟夫都覺得20億美元的資本支出非常適合。然後不知何故，我們突然拿到了 40 億美元。然後我們就拿出了50億美元。然後約瑟夫談到了一個更大的數字。我覺得不太自在。我覺得他不太自在。我們都承受著壓力。從長遠來看，我內心深處有個聲音在說，是的，還有更多。我一半在想，我確信我們做的是對的。

Listen, we're a human being. We struggle exactly the same way you struggle. The only way we can do is, we look at the landscape. AI is brand-new. This is like the beginning of a boom. I mean I won't call Big Bang. This is too religious, right? It's a boom. And then we are in the first-mover leadership position. We have all of the support from everybody and customer.

聽著，我們都是人。我們遇到的困難和你們所遇到的困難完全一樣。我們唯一能做的就是觀察周遭的環境。人工智慧是一個全新的領域。這就像一場繁榮的開始。我的意思是，我不會稱之為宇宙大爆炸。這宗教色彩太濃了吧？這是一次繁榮。這樣我們就佔據了先發優勢的領導地位。我們得到了所有人和客戶的支持。

This is our time to shine. And as we move in, we are responsible for the CapEx discipline. And then there's a financial -- I mean, Joseph is very clever, managing different instruments alone. We're learning all of this. And our guys, we have, I mean, 64,000 people in Taiwan, 100,000 worldwide.

這是我們大放異彩的時刻。隨著我們逐步推進，我們將負責資本支出的嚴格控制。然後還有財務方面的問題——我的意思是，約瑟夫非常聰明，能夠獨自管理不同的金融工具。我們正在學習這一切。我們團隊在台灣有 64,000 人，全球有 10 萬人。

It's a good number. You want to stretch them, but you don't want to stretch it to a point that all went to hospital. So as you're doing this and the customer is giving you different voices. I mean, they're a good customer, they're not so good customer. So you're dealing with a lot of this kind of thing.

這是一個不錯的數字。你想拉伸它們，但你不想拉伸到所有人都得去醫院的地步。所以當你這樣做的時候，客戶會給你不同的回饋。我的意思是，他們既是好客戶，也不是那麼好的客戶。所以你常常要處理這類事情。

Can I give you a view about 5 years from now, what's our CapEx? No. One year at a time, we would deal with the margin, execution. If anything, I do not want to disappoint my partner and customer. I will rather deliver whatever we have promised and make everybody happy going forward until the next stop. I will not stretch. Are we aggressive? Yes and no. I don't think we're pushing ourselves to the limit nor should we believe we should, all right? I'm not answering your question because I don't have an answer for you.

我可以預測一下未來五年我們的資本支出會是多少嗎？不。我們會一年一年地處理利潤率和執行情況。我最不想做的就是讓我的合作夥伴和客戶失望。我寧願兌現我們所做的所有承諾，讓每個人都滿意，直到下一站比賽開始。我不會伸展。我們是否具有侵略性？是，也不是。我不認為我們已經把自己逼到了極限，我們也不應該這麼認為，好嗎？我不回答你的問題，因為我沒有答案。

No, no, that's great. That's a great comment. And I think just a follow-on question that your LEAP business definitely has been growing quite significantly in the past few years and also this year and probably in the coming years.

不，不，那太好了。這是個很棒的評論。我想問一個後續問題，你們的 LEAP 業務在過去幾年、今年以及未來幾年肯定都取得了相當大的成長。

And as a good leading indicator, CapEx, that you have also been spending quite meaningfully in the past couple of years and also this year, so just wondering if you could share with us your metric regarding the ROIC for that part of the CapEx, especially on the advanced nodes versus your traditional business?

作為一項重要的領先指標，資本支出（CapEx）在過去幾年以及今年都得到了相當大的投入，因此我想知道您能否與我們分享一下您在資本支出這部分方面的投資回報率（ROIC）指標，特別是先進節點與傳統業務的對比情況？

The logic is very simple, right? The CapEx is a leading indicator on technology capacity and PO, also margin. If you spend CapEx, you should come up with -- your depreciation will go up. It should at least cover that part of depreciation. Otherwise, you shouldn't be doing this, right?

邏輯很簡單，對吧？資本支出是技術能力、採購訂單和利潤率的領先指標。如果你投入資本支出，你應該考慮到──你的折舊將會增加。至少應該可以覆蓋那部分折舊。否則，你就不應該這樣做，對吧？

So if with CapEx, the margin shows improvement, that means you're on the right track. And then you add the CapEx. And not the improvement, you're on the right track, which means that the market supports you and you have a better visibility. Also, your team becomes more sophisticated, and they're ready to launch the next level of endeavor. We're engineers.

因此，如果資本支出利潤率提高，那就代表你走對了路。然後再加上資本支出。而且不只是進步，你走在正確的道路上，這意味著市場支持你，你的知名度也更高了。此外，你的團隊會變得更加成熟，他們已經準備好啟動下一個階段的工作。我們是工程師。

We climb stories, floors, one step at a time. So you're asking 2026, we will spend more CapEx. What does that imply to 2027? I already gave you the answer. Hopefully, we can achieve that. But we will not know until third quarter, fourth quarter of 2026 that we can comfortably say, listen, this is what we have come up with. We're making calibration. As we move along, we will give you better visibility of how that calibration is.

我們一步一步攀登，一層一層地往上爬。所以你問的是2026年，我們會增加資本支出。這對2027年意味著什麼？我已經把答案告訴你了。希望我們能夠實現這個目標。但直到 2026 年第三季或第四季度，我們才能確切地知道，我們可以自信地說：“聽著，這就是我們想出來的辦法。”我們正在進行校準。隨著工作的推進，我們將讓您更清楚地了解校準情況。

Yeah. I think to sum up your question, I think we're still in this megatrend, and we're certainly not going to be shy on making the necessary investments in terms of CapEx also as well as in R&D dollars that we're going to put in to keep our lead in the -- and we are the chosen partner around this whole ecosystem here. So it's not the time for us to be conservative, I think.

是的。總結一下你的問題，我認為我們仍然處於這一大趨勢之中，我們當然不會吝惜必要的資本支出和研發投入，以保持我們在這一領域的領先地位——我們是整個生態系統中首選的合作夥伴。所以我覺得現在不是我們採取保守策略的時候。

So this year, of course, our CapEx is much higher than last year. Last year is much higher than the year before. And we're seeing this trend actually continuing, maybe not just for this year, next year also. We will continue to spend quite large in terms of CapEx and R&D dollars. But having said that, I think we're still in a very healthy financial condition here, and we do have multiple cost-effective funding sources to support our growth and support our investments.

所以今年我們的資本支出當然比去年高出許多。去年比前年高很多。我們看到這種趨勢其實還在持續，也許不只是今年，明年也會如此。我們將繼續在資本支出和研發方面投入大量資金。但即便如此，我認為我們目前的財務狀況仍然非常健康，而且我們有多種成本效益高的融資管道來支持我們的成長和投資。

And in terms of return, we are actually seeing that -- first of all, these leading-edge services is margin accretive and certainly return accretive as well. So we're seeing that happening already. And from last year to this, I think both on an ROE or ROIC standpoint, we are seeing improvement, although I'm not giving out any real numbers at this point yet, but we are seeing that our investments are paying off.

就回報而言，我們實際上看到——首先，這些領先的服務能夠提高利潤率，當然也能提高回報。我們已經看到這種情況發生了。從去年到今年，我認為無論從淨資產收益率 (ROE) 還是投資回報率 (ROIC) 的角度來看，我們都看到了改善，雖然目前我還不打算透露任何具體數字，但我們看到我們的投資正在獲得回報。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Just one more comment. The CapEx dollar and capacity are not the best entry barrier, but it is an entry barrier.

最後再補充一點。資本支出和產能雖然不是最好的進入門檻，但它確實構成了一種進入門檻。

Charlie, do you want to follow up?

查理，你想跟進嗎？

Thank you. So my question to Joseph, was very similar to Laura's question on gross margin, but more focused on those structural factors. So I think in the past, how you talked about utilization, FX, I think it's more short-term cyclical and you talk about the product mix improvement, I think it's more structural.

謝謝。所以我問 Joseph 的問題與 Laura 關於毛利率的問題非常相似，但更著重於結構性因素。所以我覺得，過去你談到利用率、外匯，我認為這些都與短期週期有關；而你談到產品組合改進，我認為這些都與結構有關。

How about pricing? We are hearing that for your wirebond flip chip, et cetera, it seems like there is a price hike this year. Do you think it's more like a structural price hike? And is that ASE specific? Or do you think it's kind of overall ATM industries enjoying this kind of a structural price hike? Thank you.

價格方面如何？我們聽說，今年你們的引線鍵合倒裝晶片等產品的價格似乎有所上漲。你認為這更像是結構性的價格上漲嗎？這是ASE特有的嗎？還是你認為這是整個ATM產業普遍存在的結構性價格上漲？謝謝。

Charlie is looking for commentary on the ASP environment.

Charlie 正在尋找 ASP 環境的評論。

The price hike is not part of the structure margin. During the COVID days, we have gone through that. Technology is the product mix, the value you provide is. And when Joseph comment, we have not included the price hike, the price hike is a very opportunistic approach and depending on the management philosophy, also in relation with the customer, it will be exercised when needed. But in general, we do not comment on the price increase with customers.

此次提價不屬於結構性利潤的一部分。新冠疫情期間，我們經歷過這種情況。技術是產品組合，你提供的價值才是。約瑟夫評論說，我們沒有考慮價格上漲，價格上漲是一種非常機會主義的做法，而且根據管理理念以及與客戶的關係，必要時會實施。但一般來說，我們不會就價格上漲問題向客戶發表評論。

I think our pricing, we will continue to seek the most suitable pricing strategy depending on the situation and also the requirement of -- and our return requirement. Thank you.

我認為我們的定價策略，我們將繼續根據實際情況以及客戶的需求和我們的回報要求，尋求最合適的定價策略。謝謝。

And a follow-up question on the CapEx and clean room part. So I'm wondering whether ASE have some concrete plan to solve the clean room, right? I think TSMC announced they have a piece of new land here and there. So you have so-called circa visibility, right? And if not, whether there is going to be a gating factor for your future spending for business growth?

還有一個關於資本支出和無塵室部分的後續問題。所以我想知道日月光是否有解決潔淨室問題的具體方案，對吧？我認為台積電宣布過他們零星購置了一些新土地。所以你擁有所謂的“大約可見性”，對吧？如果沒有，未來用於業務成長的支出是否會受到限制？

Charlie is asking about the physical factory progress and development that we are working on, right?

Charlie 詢問的是我們正在進行的實體工廠建設和發展的進展，對嗎？

In your CapEx, if you can break down your infrastructure or clean room portion, I think that would be great.

在你的資本支出計畫中，如果你能將基礎設施或無塵室部分細分出來，我認為那就太好了。

Okay. With separation of machinery and equipment and facilities, CapEx?

好的。機械設備和設施分開後，資本支出是多少？

Right. This year, I think for the building and facilities, we are still looking at about $2.1 billion, which is about the same level as of last year. Yes, finding new locations and new factories, it's a bit of a challenge. We're doing all we can to look at over the island to find a suitable location for our new buildings. As Tien mentioned, that includes green greenfield factory buildings as well as buying some existing from our partners. So we are going out to find the suitable location for that.

正確的。我認為今年在建築和設施方面，我們預計仍將投入約 21 億美元，與去年基本持平。是的，尋找新的廠址和新的工廠確實有點挑戰性。我們正在盡一切努力考察全島，為我們的新建築尋找合適的地點。正如 Tien 所提到的，這包括新建綠地廠房，以及從我們的合作夥伴那裡購買一些現有的廠房。所以我們要出去找適合的地點。

Do we have a follow-up question? I think we have time for one more question. If we want to ask for one more question. If not, we can wrap it up at this time. Thank you very much for attending our full year fourth quarter 2025 earnings release. Hope to see you next time. Thank you.

我們還有其他問題嗎？我想我們還有時間再問一個問題。如果我們還想問最後一個問題。如果不行，我們就可以到此為止了。非常感謝各位參加我們2025年第四季全年業績發表會。希望下次還能見到你。謝謝。

Happy New Year.

新年快樂。