Apollo Global Management Inc (APO) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Apollo Global Management's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) This conference call is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加阿波羅全球管理公司 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）本次電話會議正在錄音。

This call may contain forward-looking statements and projections, which do not guarantee future events or performance. Please refer to Apollo's most recent SEC filings for risk factors related to these statements.

本次電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述和預測，不保證未來事件或表現。有關這些聲明的風險因素，請參閱 Apollo 最新的 SEC 文件。

Apollo will be discussing certain non-GAAP measures on this call, which management believes are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business. These non-GAAP measures are reconciled to GAAP figures in Apollo's earnings presentation, which is available on the company's website. Also note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell or solicitation of an offer to purchase an interest in any Apollo fund.

阿波羅將在本次電話會議上討論某些非公認會計準則指標，管理階層認為這些指標與評估業務的財務表現有關。這些非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 指標與阿波羅公司收益報告中的公認會計準則 (GAAP) 資料一致，可在公司網站上查閱。另請注意，本次電話會議中的任何內容均不構成出售或購買任何阿波羅基金權益的要約。

I would now like to turn the call over to Noah Gunn, Global Head of Investor Relations.

現在我想將電話轉給全球投資者關係主管 Noah Gunn。

Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome again to our call this morning. As usual, I am joined by Marc Rowan, CEO; Jim Zelter, President; and Martin Kelly, CFO.

偉大的。謝謝接線員，歡迎再次參加我們今天早上的電話會議。像往常一樣，我的同事還有執行長馬克羅文 (Marc Rowan)、總裁吉姆澤爾特 (Jim Zelter) 和財務長馬丁凱利 (Martin Kelly)。

Earlier this morning, we published our earnings release and financial supplement on the Investor Relations portion of our website. For those who tuned in early and enjoyed our pregame hold music, we played a blues track called Take Out Some Insurance by Jimmy Reed. However, no insurance was necessary to protect against our performance this quarter as the results are simply outstanding. Strong execution like this is only made possible because of the tremendous efforts of our global team.

今天早些時候，我們在網站的投資者關係部分發布了收益報告和財務補充。對於那些提前收聽並喜歡我們賽前音樂的觀眾，我們播放了 Jimmy Reed 的藍調曲目《Take Out Some Insurance》。然而，由於本季度的業績非常出色，因此無需採取任何保險措施來保護我們的業績。如此強大的執行力完全得益於我們全球團隊的巨大努力。

We're all excited to discuss in further detail, so I'll now pass it over to Marc.

我們都很高興進一步討論，所以現在我將把它交給馬克。

Thanks, Noah. Appreciate it, and good morning to all. And again, thank you for your interest in spending time with us. As Noah suggested, second quarter was, in fact, very strong. Just to give the basic metrics, record FRE, $627 million, 22% year over year; management fee growth 21% year over year; record ACS fees of $216 million. With respect to SRE, $821 million, with most of the metrics we care about in the right place. And both Martin and I will discuss that.

謝謝，諾亞。非常感謝，大家早安。再次感謝您有興趣與我們共度時光。正如諾亞所說，第二季的表現確實非常強勁。僅給出基本指標，FRE 創紀錄，為 6.27 億美元，年增 22%；管理費年增 21%；ACS 費用創紀錄，為 2.16 億美元。關於 SRE，為 8.21 億美元，我們關心的大多數指標都正確。我和馬丁都會討論這個問題。

What makes this possible? It's always about team. But if I dissect the business and really talk about what's going on here, the power of what we do from originations was really on full display. $81 billion originated from our platforms and our business in the quarter. That excludes inorganic. With inorganic, it would be in the 90s. Spread over treasuries, 350 basis points. Jim will spend some time talking about the quality of origination. Buying something or originating something is not the secret here. Buying something that has excess return per unit of risk is actually what creates value in our business.

是什麼讓這一切成為可能？這始終與團隊有關。但如果我剖析業務並真正談論這裡發生的事情，我們從發起中所做的事情的力量就得到了充分展示。本季度，我們的平台和業務產生了 810 億美元。不包括無機物。如果是無機材料的話，那麼時間應該是在 90 年代。國債利差為350個基點。吉姆將花一些時間談論起源的品質。購買某物或創造某物在這裡並不是秘密。購買能帶來單位風險超額報酬的產品其實才是我們業務中創造價值的因素。

Robust inflows from $61 billion across the firm, record AUM, $840 billion, the flywheel of what we do of originating, raising capital, deploying was really in full force for the quarter. The business was strong, and the business is getting stronger, and Martin will detail that and some expectations for the rest of the year.

整個公司的資金流入強勁，達到 610 億美元，資產管理規模創歷史新高，達到 8,400 億美元，我們發起、籌集資金、部署等工作的飛輪在本季度真正發揮了全部作用。業務表現強勁，並且正在變得更加強勁，馬丁將詳細介紹這一點以及對今年剩餘時間的一些期望。

In terms of first dealing with Asset Management, what matters in Asset Management is ultimately performance. All buckets of our credit business, the largest of our business, performed the way they should whether you were core credit or opportunistic credit between 9% and 12% over latest 12 months, 2% and 3% quarter-over-quarter.

首先談資產管理，資產管理最終重要的是績效。我們信貸業務（我們最大的業務）的所有部分都表現良好，無論是核心信貸還是機會信貸，過去 12 個月的增長率都在 9% 到 12% 之間，環比增長率則為 2% 到 3%。

A couple of things that I would call out, ADS 9% plus annual return since inception, 2.3% in the quarter now exceeds $20 billion in size. What's interesting in that for me is that it shows that you can grow a business and scale a business while adhering to the principles that we espoused in our investment business.

我想指出的幾件事是，ADS 自成立以來的年回報率為 9%，本季為 2.3%，目前規模超過 200 億美元。對我來說，有趣的是，它表明你可以在堅持我們在投資業務中倡導的原則的同時發展業務並擴大業務規模。

Top of the capital structure, large company, lower leverage, no PIC, we can do this safely by originating the right risk and not trying to grow the business faster than it needs to grow. $20 billion, the team there is doing a great job and more to come. Performance without reaching, performance without trying to just grow AUM is really how we think about success in this business.

資本結構的頂端，大公司，較低的槓桿率，沒有 PIC，我們可以透過產生正確的風險並且不試圖以超過其需要的速度增長業務來安全地做到這一點。 200 億美元，那裡的團隊做得很好，未來還會有更多。不追求目標、不試圖增加 AUM 而追求業績才是我們對這個產業成功的真正看法。

In the equity business, starting with private equity business. Fund X continues to perform well. Net IRR as of the end of the quarter, 23% DPI 0.2 versus on average 0 for the rest of the industry. Fund IX, net IRR of 16.6 DPI versus 0.3 for the rest of the industry. Since inception, 39% gross, 24% net over three decades.

在股權業務方面，先從私募股權業務開始。X基金繼續表現良好。截至本季末的淨 IRR 為 23% DPI 0.2，而業界其他公司的平均 IRR 為 0。基金 IX 的淨 IRR 為 16.6 DPI，而業界其他公司的淨 IRR 為 0.3。自成立以來，三十年來毛利率為 39%，淨利率為 24%。

Alpha on the buy, alpha on the build, and alpha on the exit, this is not a complex business, but it is a disciplined business that requires tremendous execution. Sometimes trends work for you. Sometimes the IPO window is open or it's closed. Sometimes the debt market is open or it's closed. If you have a fundamental view of value and how to execute over a very long period of time, you can produce outsized returns, and that's what we've shown in our private equity business.

購買時要有 Alpha，在建造時要有 Alpha，在退出時要有 Alpha，這不是一個複雜的業務，但它是一個需要大量執行力的紀律性業務。有時趨勢會對你有利。有時 IPO 視窗會打開，有時則會關閉。有時債務市場開放，有時關閉。如果您對價值有基本的看法，並且知道如何在很長一段時間內執行，那麼您就可以獲得超額的回報，這就是我們在私募股權業務中所展示的。

Hybrid, 17% across our franchise, latest 12 months, $75 billion as of the end of the quarter with $7 billion raised year to date. On a percentage basis, as you know, from our five-year plan, we expect this to be our fastest-growing business segment.

混合型，我們特許經營業務佔 17%，最近 12 個月，截至本季末已達 750 億美元，年初至今已籌集 70 億美元。從百分比來看，如您所知，根據我們的五年計劃，我們預計這將是我們成長最快的業務部門。

To give you a sense of our flagship vehicle, AAA, Apollo Aligned Alternatives, in the hybrid segment, we are closing in first 11.1% latest 12 months, 2.6% in the quarter with a fraction of the volatility of public equity markets. This is what the team is supposed to do, deliver better than equity market long-term performance with a fraction of the volatility. The reward for doing that is investor confidence. This vehicle will likely surpass $25 billion at year-end.

為了讓您了解我們在混合領域的旗艦投資工具 AAA、Apollo Aligned Alternatives，我們在最近 12 個月的收盤價為 11.1%，本季度的收盤價為 2.6%，波動性僅為公開股票市場的一小部分。這就是團隊應該做的，以較低的波動性實現比股票市場長期表現更好的業績。這樣做的回報就是投資者信心。到今年底，該投資規模可能將超過 250 億美元。

Fundraising is strong, particularly in the institutional channel, which now for this quarter exceeds the retail channel, which is a surprise for us as institutions begin really exploring the notion of equity replacement, something happening much earlier than we thought it was going to happen.

融資勢頭強勁，尤其是在機構管道，本季已經超過了零售管道，這對我們來說是一個驚喜，因為機構開始真正探索股權置換的概念，這件事發生的時間比我們想像的要早得多。

The reward for good performance is strong inflows, better than $40 billion just in the Asset Management business in the quarter. Tim will take you through that. But the strength was across both institutional and the wealth business, and we continue to remain very well positioned with $72 billion of dry powder.

良好業績的回報是強勁的資金流入，本季僅資產管理業務的資金流入就超過 400 億美元。蒂姆將帶你經歷這一切。但實力體現在機構業務和財富業務上，我們憑藉 720 億美元的資金儲備繼續保持非常有利的地位。

Moving now to Retirement Services. We continue to observe very significant demand for retirement services product. The annuity market is a multiple of the size it was just a few years ago. High rates, certainly -- higher base rates certainly play a factor in that, but we expect demographics to contribute to a permanently higher level of retirement services product need on the part of consumers. And it is our job, as I have suggested not just to provide them with the product set that exists, but to anticipate where the product set might go. The challenge in front of the management team is to take the success they've had in the base business and really shake up the industry and have new products account for a very, very significant portion of their inflow over time.

現在轉到退休服務部門。我們持續觀察到對退休服務產品的需求非常大。年金市場規模較幾年前已有數倍成長。高利率當然是其中的一個因素——較高的基準利率肯定是其中一個因素，但我們預期人口結構因素將促使消費者對退休服務產品的需求持續處於較高水準。正如我所說，我們的工作不僅是向他們提供現有的產品系列，而且要預測產品系列的走向。管理團隊面臨的挑戰是利用他們在基礎業務中取得的成功，真正撼動整個產業，並使新產品隨著時間的推移佔據其流入資金中非常非常大的一部分。

$21 billion of inflows in the second quarter, second strongest organic quarter. We have a choice, given our size, scale, credit rating, and breadth of distribution as to how to originate. We can originate in any one of a number of markets. In this particular market, fixed annuity, or I should say, funding agreement was a very strong contributor in the quarter. In other quarters, other products will be a very strong contributor. Our job is to both serve the market demand as well as earn adequate spread for our equity investors and for ourselves.

第二季流入資金 210 億美元，為第二強勁的有機季度。考慮到我們的規模、範圍、信用評級和分銷廣度，我們可以選擇如何發起。我們可以起源於眾多市場中的任何一個。在這個特定的市場中，固定年金，或者我應該說，融資協議是本季非常強勁的貢獻者。在其他方面，其他產品將發揮非常強大的貢獻作用。我們的工作是滿足市場需求，並為我們的股權投資者和我們自己賺取足夠的利差。

When we run this business for long-term profitability, it is supported with not just our capital, but with outside capital. It allows us to retain capital. It allows us to earn high returns. Ultimately, in this industry, to grow and to get to scale, you need to produce reasonable rates of return. In our case, we produce those reasonable rates of return while allowing the asset manager to garner a market standard asset management fee. That is not the case with lots of people who are trying to enter this business, where asset management fees are supplementing what they're doing.

當我們為了長期獲利而經營這項業務時，不僅需要我們自身的資本支持，還需要外部資本的支持。它使我們能夠保留資本。它使我們能夠獲得高額回報。最終，在這個行業中，為了發展和擴大規模，您需要產生合理的回報率。在我們的案例中，我們產生了合理的報酬率，同時允許資產管理人獲得市場標準的資產管理費。但對於許多試圖進入這一行業的人來說，情況並非如此，資產管理費只是他們業務的補充。

We continue to see an interesting spread environment after a brief respite following the initial tariff announcement where spreads widened out. We've seen spreads really contract. I would not want to be in this business without a very good source of origination.

在最初的關稅公告發布後，利差一度擴大，隨後出現短暫的喘息，我們繼續看到一個有趣的利差環境。我們看到利差確實在縮小。如果沒有很好的資金來源，我是不會從事這個行業的。

What you saw in the quarter and what we expect to continue in the third quarter is our origination machine responding to Athene and other institutional clients' desire for highly rated paper with spread. In the second quarter, we made a lot of progress. While things available to others in the public markets and in near adjacent markets like CLOs tightened extraordinarily, we were able to keep spreads where we needed them and to earn the returns we needed them by originating the kind of paper that very few, if any, have access to.

您在本季看到的情況以及我們預計在第三季將繼續出現的情況是，我們的發起機器響應了 Athene 和其他機構客戶對具有利差的高評級票據的需求。第二季度，我們取得了很大進展。儘管公開市場和鄰近市場（如 CLO）中其他人可以獲得的東西都異常收緊，但我們能夠將利差保持在我們需要的水平，並通過發行很少有人（如果有的話）可以獲得的票據來獲得我們需要的回報。

The pipeline for the third quarter looks equally as good. We had projected some $70 billion-plus of new inflows for the year for Athene. We're in the 40s already. Whether we choose to exceed that or choose not to exceed it will depend on our ability to earn spread. Third quarter looks good, but we'll wait and see as we go, and Martin will have more commentary as to what he expects from an SRE development for the rest of the year.

第三季的管道看起來同樣良好。我們預計今年雅典娜基金將迎來約 700 多億美元的新資金流入。我們已經 40 多歲了。我們是否選擇超越這個數字，或選擇不超過這個數字，將取決於我們賺取利差的能力。第三季看起來不錯，但我們會拭目以待，馬丁將對他對今年剩餘時間 SRE 發展的期望發表更多評論。

One other thing that I think is worth noting is just again to go through the levers of profitability in the retirement services business. There is obviously the ability to earn spread on assets, mostly investment-grade assets. There is the ability to raise liabilities that have both good term structures, protection, but are also relatively low cost. But the thing we often overlook is the cost of doing business. In a spread-based business, the cost of doing business is a direct subtraction from your profitability.

我認為值得注意的另一件事是再次審視退休服務業務的獲利槓桿。顯然，資產（主要是投資等級資產）有能力賺取利差。我們有能力籌集既具有良好期限結構和保護性，又具有相對低成本的債務。但我們常忽略的是經營成本。在以價差為基礎的業務中，經營成本會直接減少您的獲利能力。

The numbers this quarter were nothing short of extraordinary. Athene's cost of doing business this quarter was some 16 basis points. That is half of the amount of some of our larger publicly traded competitors and probably a third the amount of some of the new entrants in this business. Imagine trying to run this business without a great source of liabilities, without a great source of assets and without a low cost structure. You can imagine it would be very difficult.

本季的數據簡直令人驚嘆。Athene 本季的營運成本約為 16 個基點。這是我們一些較大的上市競爭對手的一半，也可能是該行業一些新進者的三分之一。想像一下，在沒有大量負債、沒有大量資產、沒有低成本結構的情況下經營這項業務。你可以想像這會非常困難。

One of the other trends that you will see us address over the quarter is the quality of origination and where that origination come from. In the near future, we will put out some materials as we have historically to address origination, affiliation, as well as other issues of interest to the marketplace. Stay tuned on that.

您將看到我們在本季解決的另一個趨勢是起源的品質以及起源的來源。在不久的將來，我們將像往常一樣推出一些材料來解決起源、從屬關係以及市場感興趣的其他問題。請繼續關注。

In Europe, we have more of a developing situation. The demand for retirement services products is strong as a result of demographics, not just in the US, but in Europe and Asia. In Europe, we are a strategic investor and capital partner to Athora. Athora's largest business to date is in the Netherlands. Athora, as many of you know, has agreed to buy PIC in the UK. Athora views PIC as an incredibly attractive way to enter a very interesting UK marketplace.

在歐洲，我們的情況正在進一步發展。由於人口結構的原因，對退休服務產品的需求強勁，不僅在美國，而且在歐洲和亞洲。在歐洲，我們是 Athora 的策略投資者和資本合作夥伴。Athora 迄今為止最大的業務位於荷蘭。眾所周知，Athora 已同意收購英國的 PIC。Athora 認為 PIC 是進入英國這個非常有趣的市場的一個極具吸引力的方式。

The UK has many of the same demographic, corporate, and pension trends and needs that the US does. It does not have the same amount of capital. And the UK regulatory regime and the UK regulatory mood is one of encouraging private capital into its marketplace, particularly investment-grade private capital that supports the long-term projects that the UK and other, quite frankly, European governments want to do.

英國的人口、企業和退休金趨勢和需求與美國有許多相同。它沒有相同數量的資本。英國的監管制度和監管氛圍鼓勵私人資本進入其市場，特別是支持英國和其他歐洲國家政府想要進行的長期計畫的投資等級私人資本。

And so while that transaction is subject to regulatory approval, and we would not expect it to close until after the turn of the year. We are very excited of what that could lead to and excited to enter the UK market in real size and scale.

因此，雖然該交易需獲得監管部門的批准，但我們預計該交易要到今年年底才能完成。我們對這將帶來的結果感到非常興奮，並且很高興能夠以實際規模進入英國市場。

PIC is to the UK what Athene is to the US market. It will be a sizable capital funding. We will need sizable amounts of funding of assets, which will incent us to generate the same kind of originated assets that we have generated in the US to make available to the PIC management team to choose those assets that are best for their business.

PIC 之於英國，就如同 Athene 之於美國市場。這將是一筆相當大的資本融資。我們將需要大量的資產融資，這將激勵我們產生與我們在美國產生的相同類型的起源資產，以便 PIC 管理團隊選擇最適合其業務的資產。

I think Europe is about to get more exciting. In terms of the industry, most of our peer set has now announced. And I think what you're seeing across the industry to varying degrees is a rising tide lifting all boats. Recall that our industry is some 40 years old, and we started a business that served the smallest bucket of our institutional clients called alternatives. We now have a significant number of other sources of demand.

我認為歐洲將會變得更加令人興奮。就行業而言，我們的大多數同行現在都已宣布了消息。我認為，整個產業都在不同程度上呈現水漲船高的發展動能。回想一下，我們的產業已經有 40 年的歷史了，我們創辦的企業只為最小的機構客戶提供服務，也就是另類投資。我們現在有大量其他需求來源。

Right after we have the institutional alternative bucket, we now have this thing called individuals, which most of you ask about every quarter, and I expect and Jim expects to be as large as the institutional business over time.

在我們擁有機構替代桶之後，我們現在有了這種稱為個人的東西，大多數人每個季度都會詢問它，我預計，Jim 預計隨著時間的推移，它會與機構業務一樣大。

Second, we have another new market called insurance. Companies have seen what we have done for Athene by harnessing the illiquidity of our liabilities to be able to provide long-term capital, and strategies like Athene's are being adopted not just in the US but across the globe. We now have a third new source of demand. Institutions are now looking at private assets, not just in their alternative bucket, but in their fixed income bucket for fixed income replacement, and we expect over time in their equity bucket for equity replacement.

第二，我們還有另一個新市場，就是保險。公司已經看到了我們為 Athene 所做的貢獻，即利用負債的非流動性來提供長期資本，並且像 Athene 這樣的策略不僅在美國被採用，而且在全球範圍內也被採用。我們現在有了第三個新的需求來源。各機構現在不僅專注於替代資產，還專注於固定收益資產，以取代固定收益，我們預計隨著時間的推移，它們還會專注於股票資產，以取代股票。

A fourth new source of demand are traditional asset managers. Traditional asset managers have struggled with the rise of passive and the decline of active, active being the higher fee, more value-added business. I believe we are watching traditional managers begin to redefine what active management is rather than the buying and selling of stocks, the addition of private assets to heretofore solely public portfolios. There are lots of examples out there of collaborations, and we are in the beginning stages of this, but this has the potential to be a very, very large market and most importantly, to serve a clientele that we historically, as an industry, have not had access to.

第四個新的需求來源是傳統資產管理者。傳統資產管理公司一直在努力應對被動管理的興起和主動管理的衰落，主動管理是指收費更高、附加價值更高的業務。我相信，我們正在看到傳統管理者開始重新定義主動管理，而不是買賣股票，將私人資產添加到迄今為止僅為公共的投資組合中。有很多合作的例子，我們也處於合作的起步階段，但這有可能成為一個非常非常大的市場，最重要的是，我們可以為行業歷史上無法接觸到的客戶提供服務。

Finally, I believe we are on the cusp of being able to serve the 401(k) and the defined contribution marketplace. I expect there to be significant proposed changes to the regulatory landscape to make this easier. This, to me, is common sense. This is among the largest pools of savings in the world, some $12 trillion to $13 trillion. This money is mostly invested in daily liquid index products for 50 years.

最後，我相信我們即將能夠為 401（k）和固定繳款市場提供服務。我預計監管環境將會有重大改變，以使這一過程變得更加容易。對我來說，這是常識。這是世界上最大的儲蓄池之一，規模約12兆至13兆美元。這筆錢大部分投資於50年的每日流動性指數產品。

A small change in the rate of return available to these investors over their retirement period is not about slightly better outcomes. It's 50% and 100% better outcomes. We face across the world a retirement income crisis. We believe we have a role to play in this. I don't expect this to take place all at once, but I do expect this to be a continuing source of demand. If you shape up our view of the world, our view of the world is we started as a business that was a perfectly nice business serving the alternative bucket of our institutional clients.

這些投資者在退休期間可獲得的回報率的微小變化並不意味著結果會稍微好一些。結果好轉了 50% 甚至 100%。我們世界各地都面臨退休收入危機。我們相信我們在這方面可以發揮一定的作用。我並不期望這一切會立即發生，但我確實希望這會成為一個持續的需求來源。如果你塑造我們對世界的看法，我們對世界的看法是，我們最初是一家非常好的企業，為我們的機構客戶提供替代性服務。

We now have five additional sources of demand. I continue to believe that over the long term, it is not going to be demand for high-quality private assets that determines how fast we grow. It will be our capacity to originate and therefore, the supply of those assets. Our focus continues to be squarely on origination, and each of these markets is going to require innovation. Innovation can be a partnering with State Street on their ETF. Innovation can be a partnering with Lord Abbett. Innovation can take place in Target Date Funds, can take place with Empower. It can take place with other providers of retirement products. Innovation can take place in stablecoins. Innovation can take place in the trading of private assets, which I think has the potential to turn our industry on its head.

我們現在有五個額外的需求來源。我仍然相信，從長遠來看，對高品質私人資產的需求不會決定我們的成長速度。這是我們創造並供應這些資產的能力。我們的重點仍然放在起源上，並且每個市場都需要創新。創新可以是與道富銀行就其 ETF 展開合作。創新可以與阿貝特勳爵合作。創新可以在目標日期基金中進行，也可以透過 Empower 進行。它可以與其他退休產品提供者合作。穩定幣中可以進行創新。私人資產交易中可以進行創新，我認為這有可能徹底改變我們的產業。

In every industry where transparency of pricing and daily price availability has taken place, the industry has grown massively. For those who resist this, it generally means that your fee is above where it's supposed to be, and you don't want to shine a light on it. For us, we believe that the growth of this market, the size and scale of this market, the creation of more demand for private assets will benefit those who are in a strong position from origination. We see this as a positive and a potential game changer. Innovation is the name of the game here.

在每個實現定價透明化和每日價格可得性的行業中，行業都得到了巨大的發展。對於那些反對這種做法的人來說，這通常意味著你的費用高於應有的水平，而你不想對此表示關注。對我們來說，我們相信這個市場的成長、這個市場的規模、對私人資產的更多需求的創造將使那些從一開始就處於強勢地位的人受益。我們認為這是一個積極的、可能改變遊戲規則的事件。創新是這裡遊戲的名稱。

I think I've said enough. I actually think Noah got it right at the beginning of the quarter. This was a really strong quarter. Everything we want to do was working the way it was supposed to. We can always do better.

我想我已經說得夠多了。我確實認為諾亞在本季初就做對了。這是一個非常強勁的季度。我們想要做的每件事都按照預期的方式進行。我們總是可以做得更好。

The team is working as hard as I've ever seen the team. So just one metric that caught my eye yesterday, on an average week, we have, on a daily basis, 1,000 people in the office. In July and early August, we now have 1,200. I can't actually figure what's happening, but it is among the busiest July we have ever seen in our business and momentum is building rather than declining.

這支球隊正像我所見過的一樣努力工作。昨天引起我注意的一個指標是，平均每週，我們辦公室每天都有 1,000 人。截至 7 月和 8 月初，我們目前已擁有 1,200 名員工。我實際上不知道發生了什麼，但這是我們業務有史以來最繁忙的七月之一，而且發展勢頭正在增強而不是減弱。

It's my pleasure now to turn it over to Jim Zelter.

現在我很高興將其交給 Jim Zelter。

Thanks, Marc. Much has been written covering the second quarter in terms of macro events that led to periods of uncertainty followed by a resurgence of confidence and risk on mentality. For Apollo, the attributes of our model were on full display. As stated previously, our North Star is to be an all-weather equal opportunity investor, private and public, primary and secondary, combined with speed and scale across the entirety of the investment-grade and non-investment-grade ecosystem as well as the equity ecosystem.

謝謝，馬克。關於第二季的宏觀事件已經有很多報道，這些事件引發了一段時期的不確定性，隨後信心和風險心態又重新復甦。對於阿波羅來說，我們模型的屬性得到了充分展示。如前所述，我們的北極星是成為一個全天候的平等機會投資者，私人和公共、主要和次要，結合整個投資級和非投資級生態系統以及股權生態系統的速度和規模。

In the aftermath of Liberation Day, we deployed $25 billion in a condensed time frame and we're well regarded as the market leader in that period. As the quarter progressed, confidence returned, markets reopened and risk assets recovered. In this environment, we continue to lead with scale, conviction and certainty of execution. In particular, I would highlight the performance of our high-grade capital solutions business, where we originated more than $8 billion across four transactions, including transactions for AES, BP, Mumbai Airport, and EDF, which I will touch on shortly.

解放日之後，我們在短時間內投入了 250 億美元，並被公認為該時期的市場領導者。隨著本季的進展，信心恢復，市場重新開放，風險資產復甦。在這種環境下，我們將繼續憑藉規模、信念和執行的確定性保持領先地位。我特別要強調的是我們的高級資本解決方案業務的表現，我們在四筆交易中籌集了超過 80 億美元，其中包括 AES、BP、孟買機場和 EDF 的交易，我很快就會談到這些交易。

In aggregate, as Marc mentioned, we originated $81 billion of assets during the quarter, representing nearly a 50% growth year over year. This result was driven by activity across our diversified origination channels, platforms, core credit, high-grade capital solutions, equity, and hybrid. Within platforms, volumes were led by ATLAS and MidCap, which posted combined volume growth of approximately 30% quarter over quarter, while maintaining solid historical spread. Within core credit, volumes were led by CRE debt, large-cap direct lending, and fund finance, which in a combined basis doubled quarter over quarter.

總體而言，正如馬克所提到的，我們在本季創造了 810 億美元的資產，比去年同期成長近 50%。這一結果是由我們多元化的發起管道、平台、核心信貸、高級資本解決方案、股票和混合活動所推動的。在平台內，交易量領先的是 ATLAS 和 MidCap，這兩個平台的交易量環比增長了約 30%，同時保持了穩固的歷史價差。在核心信貸領域，企業房地產債務、大盤直接貸款和基金融資的貸款量領先，合計比去年同期翻了一番。

It is very important to draw the distinction that all origination is not equal, and we believe there is a fundamental difference and significant value capture between directly originated versus purchasing others originated assets. Of our total origination in the quarter, $75 billion was debt comprised of $60 billion of investment-grade credit with an average rating of A- and $15 billion of sub-investment-grade credit with an average rating of B.

區分並非所有起源都是平等的非常重要，我們認為直接起源與購買他人起源的資產之間存在根本差異和顯著的價值獲取。在本季度，我們的總債務中，有 750 億美元為債務，其中包括 600 億美元的投資級信貸（平均評級為 A-）和 150 億美元的次投資級信貸（平均評級為 B）。

On our investment-grade origination, we generated excess spread of approximately 290 basis points over treasuries or approximately 190 basis points over comparable rated corporate debt. On our sub-investment-grade origination, we generated excess spread of over 470 basis points over treasuries or approximately 200 basis points over comparably rated high-yield corporates.

在我們的投資等級發行中，我們產生的利差比國債高出約 290 個基點，比同等評級的公司債高出約 190 個基點。在我們低於投資等級的債券發行中，我們產生的利差比國債高出 470 多個基點，比同等評等的高收益公司債高出約 200 個基點。

Overall, we observed stable spreads quarter over quarter and saw modest widening in July. Achieving record origination volume while generating excess spread is particularly impressive, as Marc said, when considering we are in a market where many areas within credit, such as CLOs or BB crossovers have gravitated to decade-plus or even generational type spreads.

整體而言，我們觀察到利差逐季保持穩定，且 7 月利差略有擴大。正如馬克所說，在產生超額利差的同時實現創紀錄的發起量尤其令人印象深刻，因為考慮到我們處於一個信貸領域很多領域（如 CLO 或 BB 交叉）都已轉向十多年甚至幾代人的利差的市場。

Our origination activity continues to be broad-based with several diverse flows across channels. We had some excellent wins in the quarter. And as I highlighted, in particular, was our GBP4.5 billion financing for Électricité de France, EDF, which marked the largest sterling-denominated private credit transaction to date. Proceeds from the financing will be used to finance EDF's electronuclear projects in the UK, most notably the Hinkley Point C nuclear power station. This bespoke large-scale HGCS financing supports EDF's vital role in advancing the European energy and power infrastructure. We see a broad pipeline of these transactions, and it reinforces our reputation as a trusted adviser, making us a partner of choice for companies in need of secular CapEx investments.

我們的發起活動繼續具有廣泛的基礎，涉及多個不同的管道。我們在本季度取得了一些出色的勝利。我特別強調的是，我們為法國電力公司（EDF）提供了 45 億英鎊的融資，這是迄今為止最大的以英鎊計價的私人信貸交易。融資所得將用於資助法國電力公司在英國的核電項目，尤其是欣克利角 C 核電廠。這項客製化的大規模 HGCS 融資支持了 EDF 在推動歐洲能源和電力基礎設施方面發揮的重要作用。我們看到這些交易的管道很廣泛，這加強了我們作為值得信賴的顧問的聲譽，使我們成為需要長期資本支出投資的公司的首選合作夥伴。

More broadly, Europe is an area we are investing significant time and resources to expand our dominant presence. Over the coming years, we see substantial origination opportunity as the region commits infrastructure investments, defense, reindustrialization, and power generation.

更廣泛地說，歐洲是我們投入大量時間和資源來擴大我們主導地位的地區。未來幾年，隨著該地區致力於基礎設施投資、國防、再工業化和發電，我們將看到巨大的起源機會。

In Germany, which I visited three times during the quarter, we have made a significant commitment to support the country's growth initiatives and have committed to deploy over $100 billion over the next decade. We see a large direct lending opportunity as well, given over 90% of the firms with revenue greater than $100 million are still private. We also see a major opportunity in the asset-based finance strategy particularly if meaningful securitization reform takes place, which we saw in the beginning of the quarter.

本季我曾三度訪問德國，我們做出了支持該國成長計畫的重大承諾，並承諾在未來十年投入超過 1000 億美元。鑑於收入超過 1 億美元的公司中 90% 以上仍為私人企業，我們也看到了巨大的直接貸款機會。我們也看到了資產融資策略中的一個重大機遇，特別是如果進行有意義的證券化改革，正如我們在本季初所看到的。

For context, the US is a $30 trillion economy with a $15 trillion securitization market compared to Europe's $24 trillion economy with just a $500 billion total securitization market.

舉個例子，美國是一個 30 兆美元的經濟體，其證券化市場規模為 15 兆美元，而歐洲則是 24 兆美元的經濟體，其證券化市場規模僅為 5,000 億美元。

Within our sustainability and infrastructure business, it's worth noting that we have now deployed nearly $60 billion into energy transition and decarbonization opportunities since 2022, surpassing our previously five-year goal of $50 billion, nearly two years ahead of schedule. Given the unprecedented CapEx needs, it is clear there is an outsized demand for long-term flexible capital where our Apollo franchise is at the forefront.

在我們的永續發展和基礎設施業務中，值得注意的是，自 2022 年以來，我們已向能源轉型和脫碳機會投入近 600 億美元，超過了我們之前 500 億美元的五年目標，比計劃提前了近兩年。鑑於前所未有的資本支出需求，顯然對長期靈活資本的需求非常大，而我們的阿波羅特許經營權處於最前沿。

I would specifically highlight the opportunity we see in financing AI infra projects. To facilitate the pace of growth, research estimates suggest nearly $3 trillion of investment will be required by the end of the decade, with $1.5 trillion of external funding needed to support that activity. Within this $1.5 trillion financing gap, there's nearly an $800 billion opportunity for private credit led by asset-based finance. And we believe we are particularly well suited to serve this market given our expansive long-dated capital base in terms of creativity and flexibility.

我想特別強調我們在資助人工智慧基礎設施項目方面看到的機會。為了促進成長步伐，研究估計表明，到本世紀末將需要近 3 兆美元的投資，其中需要 1.5 兆美元的外部資金來支持這項活動。在這1.5兆美元的融資缺口中，以資產融資為主導的私人信貸機會接近8,000億美元。我們相信，鑑於我們在創造力和靈活性方面擁有廣泛的長期資本基礎，我們特別適合服務這個市場。

An emerging aspect of our origination effort continues to be our bank partnerships. We've worked collaboratively with many of the banks to drive capital formation and unlock differentiated sourcing. Currently, our global network of 12 bank partnerships spans to both US and international. And based on active conversations, we anticipate adding a handful of new partnerships by year-end 2025. These partnerships are active in ABFs, private corporate credit, infrastructure, trade finance, SRTs, and junior capital solutions, all enhanced by the strategic alignment and trust and communication we have built.

我們的發起工作中一個新興的面向仍然是與銀行的合作。我們與多家銀行合作，推動資本形成並實現差異化採購。目前，我們的全球網路由 12 家銀行合作組成，遍及美國和國際。根據積極的對話，我們預計到 2025 年底將增加一些新的合作關係。這些合作關係活躍於 ABF、私人企業信貸、基礎設施、貿易融資、SRT 和初級資本解決方案領域，所有這些都因我們建立的策略聯盟、信任和溝通而得到加強。

In summary, our origination machine continues to produce quality spread at scale. As we continue to discuss larger trends in the broader private credit ecosystem, I will highlight two points on our platform. First, as we have brought together our toolbox to global sponsors in the private equity ecosystem, our direct lending share in the sponsor marketplace has dramatically increased. Combined volumes for the large cap, our large-cap team and our mid-cap team totaled $25 billion in the first half of the year, up dramatically year over year.

總而言之，我們的起源機器繼續大規模地生產優質利差。當我們繼續討論更廣泛的私人信貸生態系統中的更大趨勢時，我將強調我們平台上的兩點。首先，隨著我們向私募股權生態系統中的全球發起人提供工具箱，我們在發起人市場的直接貸款份額大幅增加。今年上半年，大盤股、我們的大盤股團隊和中盤股團隊的總交易量達到 250 億美元，較去年同期大幅成長。

Secondly, as the conversation surrounding private credit continues to expand, it's clear that the new favorite flavor in the marketplace is investment-grade solutions. By our account, we have an unmatched market presence with over 29 financings totaling $44 billion since 2020.

其次，隨著私人信貸的討論不斷擴大，很明顯，市場上的新寵兒是投資級解決方案。根據我們的統計，我們擁有無與倫比的市場影響力，自 2020 年以來已完成超過 29 筆融資，總額達 440 億美元。

Turning to capital formation. Our engine was firing on all cylinders as we generated $61 billion of inflows in the quarter, including record organic inflows of $49 billion. Inflows were driven by $40 billion from asset management, which included $12 billion of inorganic flows from the Redding Ridge Irradiant acquisition and $21 billion from Athene. Our capital formation capabilities were differentiated with three-distinct pillars driving our results, our institutional business, our global wealth franchise and our retirement services platform.

轉向資本形成。我們的引擎全速運轉，本季我們產生了 610 億美元的流入，其中包括創紀錄的 490 億美元的有機流入。資金流入主要來自資產管理領域的 400 億美元，其中包括來自 Redding Ridge Irradiant 收購的 120 億美元無機資金流入和來自 Athene 的 210 億美元。我們的資本形成能力因三大支柱而有所不同，它們分別推動我們的表現：我們的機構業務、我們的全球財富特許經營權和我們的退休服務平台。

Within the $40 billion of inflows from asset management, approximately 80% went to credit-oriented strategies and 20% to equity-oriented strategies with contributions coming from a broad array of investors. One area of standout performance was our third-party insurance business that generated $7 billion of inflows, which included six new and two upsized mandates.

在來自資產管理的400億美元流入中，約80%流向了信貸導向策略，20%流向了股票導向策略，貢獻來自廣泛的投資者。我們的第三方保險業務表現突出，產生了 70 億美元的流入，其中包括六項新的授權和兩項擴大的授權。

Third-party insurance is on track for a record year, with over $9 billion raised year to date across diverse products, types, strategies, geographies, and liability profiles. Insurers are increasingly recognizing our differentiated origination capabilities and unique level of alignment with our clients. We own what they own, which is driving a strong pipeline of interest.

第三方保險預計將創下歷史新高，今年迄今已籌集超過 90 億美元，涵蓋各種產品、類型、策略、地理和責任狀況。保險公司越來越認可我們差異化的發起能力以及與客戶的獨特協調程度。我們擁有他們所擁有的東西，這推動了強大的興趣管道。

In Global Wealth, momentum continues to generate as we generated more than $4 billion of inflows in the quarter, the second best on record despite the turbulent backdrop. Year-to-date inflows of $9 billion were up 40% versus the year-ago period with contributions from 18 separate strategies encompassing our semi-liquid suite as well as a drawdown in QP offerings. In particular, we've observed continued strength from ADS, which is set to take in another $600 million in July as well as building momentum in ABC and AIC.

在全球財富領域，我們持續保持強勁勢頭，本季流入資金超過 40 億美元，儘管背景動盪，但仍創下歷史第二佳成績。年初至今的流入資金為 90 億美元，較上年同期成長 40%，其中貢獻來自涵蓋我們半流動性套件的 18 個獨立策略以及 QP 產品的減少。尤其是，我們觀察到 ADS 持續表現強勁，預計 7 月將再吸收 6 億美元資金，同時 ABC 和 AIC 的勢頭也日益增強。

Our wealth franchise now has seven strategies, exceeding $1 billion in AUM with two above $20 billion, AAA and ADS, a signal of the increasing scale and receptivity we're seeing across strategies. Our expanding distribution footprint is supporting continued growth, and we currently have more than 5,000 advisers across nearly 700 firms allocating to our products.

我們的財富管理業務目前有七種策略，資產管理規模超過 10 億美元，其中兩種超過 200 億美元，分別是 AAA 和 ADS，這表明我們在各種策略中看到的規模和接受度都在不斷提高。我們不斷擴大的分銷範圍支持持續成長，目前我們擁有來自近 700 家公司的 5,000 多名顧問為我們的產品進行配置。

With an excellent first half of the year, we believe that we are well on our way to achieve our full-year goal in 2025. Athene had another excellent quarter with $21 billion of organic inflows, the second highest result on record. By channel, inflows were driven by $7 billion from retail, $12 billion from funding agreements, and $2 billion from flow insurance. Retail flows saw particularly strength in fixed index annuities, where FA issuance was strong at $12 billion and marked a second quarter of record volumes as we continue to lean in and take advantage of favorable issuance spreads.

憑藉著上半年的出色表現，我們相信我們正在順利實現 2025 年全年目標。Athene 又度過了一個出色的季度，有機流入金額達 210 億美元，創歷史第二高紀錄。按通路劃分，流入資金來自零售 70 億美元、融資協議 120 億美元和流動保險 20 億美元。零售流量在固定指數年金方面表現尤為強勁，其中 FA 發行量強勁，達到 120 億美元，創下第二季的歷史新高，因為我們將繼續利用有利的發行利差。

Taken together with the strength of the first quarter, Athene is on pace for a record year in FA issuance. As we've been saying for some time, the expanding needs of the global retiree population present a significant growth opportunity for Athene, and the franchise is exceptionally well positioned to capitalize on this broad secular trend.

結合第一季的強勁表現，Athene 的 FA 發行量有望創下歷史新高。正如我們一段時間以來所說的那樣，全球退休人口不斷增長的需求為 Athene 帶來了巨大的成長機會，而該特許經營權完全有能力利用這一廣泛的長期趨勢。

With that, I'll turn it over to Martin for the financial results.

說完這些，我會把財務結果交給馬丁。

Thank you, Jim, and good morning, everyone. Our second-quarter results, as you've heard, underscore the increasing momentum across our platform and demonstrate consistent execution of our long-term strategy. I'll briefly walk through the quarter's financial results and highlight the drivers that position us well for the remainder of the year.

謝謝你，吉姆，大家早安。正如您所聽到的，我們的第二季業績凸顯了我們整個平台的成長勢頭，並體現了我們長期策略的持續執行。我將簡要介紹本季的財務業績，並重點介紹那些為我們在今年剩餘時間內取得良好業績奠定基礎的驅動因素。

FRE, in Asset Management, AUM increased by 22% year over year to a record $840 billion, while fee-generating AUM grew 22% to $638 billion. Nearly 60% of our total AUM and 75% of our total fee-generating AUM is comprised of perpetual capital, which is highly scalable and largely insulated from cyclical drawdown fundraising. Perpetual capital is benefiting from strong flows in our Global Wealth business as well as Athene.

資產管理領域的 FRE，其 AUM 年增 22%，達到創紀錄的 8,400 億美元，而收費 AUM 增長 22%，達到 6,380 億美元。我們總 AUM 的近 60% 和總收費 AUM 的 75% 由永久資本組成，這些資本具有高度可擴展性，並且在很大程度上不受週期性提取融資的影響。永久資本受益於我們全球財富業務以及 Athene 的強勁流動。

We generated $627 million in fee-related earnings in Q2, a new quarterly high. FRE grew by 22% year over year, driven by the following four items: one, 22% overall management fee growth with 25% growth in credit, reflecting a strong origination volumes and spreads that Jim described across our asset-backed and other high-grade businesses. Notably, the acquisition of Irradiant by Redding Ridge further builds out the capabilities of Redding Ridge. While this contributed to AUM, it did not contribute to growth in fee-paying AUM or management fee growth in any meaningful way. With respect to equity, S3 has contributed catch-up fees for the last three quarters, including approximately $15 million in Q2, as we closed out a very successful $5.5 billion fundraise.

我們在第二季創造了 6.27 億美元的費用相關收益，創下季度新高。FRE 年成長 22%，主要得益於以下四個方面：第一，整體管理費成長 22%，信貸成長 25%，反映了 Jim 所描述的我們資產支援業務和其他高等級業務的強勁發起量和利差。值得注意的是，Redding Ridge 收購 Irradiant 進一步增強了 Redding Ridge 的實力。雖然這對 AUM 有所貢獻，但對付費 AUM 或管理費的成長並沒有任何有意義的貢獻。關於股權，S3 在過去三個季度貢獻了補繳費用，其中包括第二季的約 1500 萬美元，因為我們成功完成了 55 億美元的融資。

Two, we generated record capital solutions fees, as you've heard, of $216 million, which exceeded our prior peak in Q2 of '24. The quarter's fee activity comprised approximately 100 discrete transactions supported by the breadth of our origination and portfolio activity.

第二，正如您所聽到的，我們產生了創紀錄的 2.16 億美元資本解決方案費用，超過了 2024 年第二季的峰值。本季的費用活動包括約 100 筆獨立交易，這些交易得到了我們廣泛的發起和投資組合活動的支持。

Three, fee revenue growth also included 21% year-over-year growth in fee-related performance fees, reflecting the ongoing scaling of our semiliquid product suite led by ADS. And four, fee-related expenses grew by 13% year over year as we balance continued investment in our growth priorities with increasing efficiency throughout the business. The increase in compensation expense in the quarter reflects an accelerated pace of hiring activity in the first half that we expect to moderate in the back half.

第三，費用收入成長還包括與費用相關的績效費用年增 21%，這反映了我們以 ADS 為首的半流動性產品套件的持續擴大。第四，由於我們在成長重點的持續投資與提高整個業務的效率之間取得平衡，費用相關支出較去年同期成長了 13%。本季薪資費用的增加反映了上半年招募活動的加快，我們預計下半年招募活動的放緩。

With 17% fee-related revenue growth and 13% cost growth, we generated approximately 200 basis points of FRE margin expansion year over year for the quarter and for the first half. We remain confident in our ability to drive higher margins over time as we execute our business plan and achieve greater scale. For the balance of 2025, with the momentum that is evident across all the metrics that are relevant, we are tracking to the higher end of our 15% to 20% FRE guide in a non-flagship PE fundraising year.

由於費用相關收入成長 17% 且成本成長 13%，我們本季和上半年的 FRE 利潤率較去年同期擴大了約 200 個基點。隨著我們執行業務計劃並實現更大的規模，我們仍然有信心隨著時間的推移提高利潤率。對於 2025 年的剩餘時間，隨著所有相關指標的明顯成長勢頭，我們將在非旗艦 PE 融資年份追蹤 15% 至 20% FRE 指南的高端。

SRE. Moving to retirement services. Q2 delivered another strong organic growth quarter with $21 billion of inflows, our second highest on record. Athene's net invested assets grew by 18% year over year to $275 billion. We generated $821 million of SRE for the quarter with an additional $36 million, adjusting to our long-term 11% return expectation on the Alternatives portfolio, all in line with our prior comments.

上層建築。轉向退休服務。第二季再次實現強勁的有機成長，流入資金達 210 億美元，創歷史第二高。Athene 的淨投資資產年增 18%，達到 2,750 億美元。我們本季產生了 8.21 億美元的 SRE，另外還產生了 3,600 萬美元，根據我們對另類投資組合的長期 11% 回報預期進行調整，所有這些都符合我們先前的評論。

The Alternatives return for the quarter came in slightly higher than our pre-release estimate due to positive late quarter pricing and FX adjustments. The blended net spread in Q2 was 122 basis points versus 126 basis points in the prior quarter, reflecting the continuing runoff of profitable business written post-COVID. We generated new business spreads of approximately 130 basis points in the first half, right in line with historical long-term spreads of the business and fully consistent with our overall SRE growth outlook for the year. We remain highly confident that we'll achieve the mid-single-digit growth in 2025 on the basis we previously communicated.

由於季度末定價和外匯調整的正面影響，本季的另類投資報酬率略高於我們發布前的估計。第二季的混合淨利差為 122 個基點，而上一季為 126 個基點，反映出新冠疫情之後獲利業務的持續流失。我們在上半年創造了約 130 個基點的新業務利差，與業務歷史長期利差一致，也與我們今年的整體 SRE 成長前景完全一致。我們仍然非常有信心，我們將在先前傳達的基礎上，在 2025 年實現中等個位數成長。

Bridge, we're continuing to work towards the close of our pending acquisition of Bridge Investment Group, and we expect to close the transaction in early September. In terms of financial impact, given partial year timing, we anticipate relatively modest FRE contribution for the remainder of 2025. For 2026, we anticipate Bridge will contribute approximately $100 million to our FRE, in line with previously published forecasts in the Bridge shareholder proxy filing. We expect meaningful scaling of Bridge's FRE and total financial accretion in 2027 and beyond, and we'll hold an update call in the fall to provide additional information.

Bridge，我們正在繼續努力完成對Bridge Investment Group的收購，我們預計在9月初完成交易。就財務影響而言，考慮部分年份的時間安排，我們預計 2025 年剩餘時間的 FRE 貢獻將相對溫和。到 2026 年，我們預計 Bridge 將為我們的 FRE 貢獻約 1 億美元，這與 Bridge 股東代理文件中先前發布的預測一致。我們預計 Bridge 的 FRE 和總財務增值將在 2027 年及以後實現顯著擴大，我們將在秋季舉行更新電話會議以提供更多資訊。

With that, I'll turn the call back to the operator, and we welcome your questions.

說完這些，我會將電話轉回給接線生，我們歡迎您提問。

(Operator Instructions) Alex Blostein, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Alex Blostein。

So really impressive results across the business. I was hoping to maybe double-click into credit spread dynamics and importantly, how that could impact the insurance business perhaps beyond 2025, just taking into account your ability to sort of flex and move between products but also rising competition in some of the more traditional channels like retail. And then again, to your point, fairly tight credit spreads across the ecosystem?

因此整個業務的成果確實令人印象深刻。我希望能夠深入了解信用利差動態，更重要的是，這將如何影響 2025 年以後的保險業務，不僅要考慮到您在產品之間靈活移動的能力，還要考慮到零售等一些更傳統的渠道中日益激烈的競爭。那麼，回到您的觀點，整個生態系的信用利差相當緊張？

Thanks, Alex. It's Marc. I'll start, and then I'll let Martin finish up. I think the way to think about the quarter, in credit spreads, in products that we have historically bought CLO, that are now more readily accepted and readily available, have tightened to levels that we think are unsustainable and uneconomic for the risk. We have been able to pivot the origination to maintain spread.

謝謝，亞歷克斯。是馬克。我先開始，然後讓馬丁結束。我認為，從本季的信用利差來看，我們過去購買的 CLO 產品（現在更容易被接受和獲得）已經收緊到我們認為不可持續和不經濟的風險水平。我們已經能夠調整起源以保持傳播。

Coming back to what Martin said, we are originating new business in the context of this tight spread environment at 130 basis points at numbers consistent with historical rates of return in amounts that we have never done before that we feel very comfortable doing.

回到馬丁所說的，我們在這種利差緊張的環境下以 130 個基點的利率開展新業務，其數字與歷史回報率一致，這是我們以前從未做過的，我們感到非常舒適。

Why isn't the business growing faster? The business is not growing faster because the profitability of what we had done in the COVID era was just extraordinary. And so what you're watching is the business itself is incredibly healthy, and we're just amortizing, if you will, the flow-through of the business that took place in the COVID era. And as soon as that business runs off, we would expect a meaningful tick up in SRE. There is no doubt and then as I look forward in liabilities that we will see compression in, first, asset spreads that things people can buy.

為什麼業務沒有更快成長？業務成長速度沒有更快，因為我們在新冠疫情期間所做的工作獲利能力非常出色。因此，您所看到的是業務本身非常健康，如果您願意的話，我們只是攤銷了 COVID 時代發生的業務流通。一旦該業務開始運轉，我們預計 SRE 將出現顯著成長。毫無疑問，當我展望負債時，我們將看到首先人們可以購買的資產利差的壓縮。

So when we started in this business, insurance companies were not large investors in CLOs. Insurance companies are now large investors in CLOs. The business, while private and originated, is commoditized. It's pretty easy access to the CLO market. It is our job to pivot to products that are not easy access, and that's what we're doing, and that's what you saw in the quarter, and Jim cited it in some of the platforms and some of the high-grade alpha deals.

因此，當我們開始從事這項業務時，保險公司並不是 CLO 的大投資者。保險公司現在是 CLO 的主要投資者。該業務雖然是私有的且有起源，但已商品化。進入 CLO 市場相當容易。我們的工作是轉向那些不容易獲得的產品，這就是我們正在做的事情，這也是您在本季度看到的，Jim 在一些平台和一些高級 alpha 交易中提到了這一點。

The same thing is likely to happen on the liability side of the business. On the liability side of the business, things that people can do just by showing up, moving annuities or other sorts of MYGAs through the broker channel, which does not require all that much sophistication or a high credit rating, are going to become commoditized. It is our job to take a significant portion of our origination into new markets.

同樣的事情也可能發生在企業的負債方面。在業務的負債方面，人們只需出現、透過經紀人管道轉移年金或其他類型的 MYGA 即可完成的事情將變得商品化，而這並不需要太多的複雜性或很高的信用評級。我們的職責是將我們的大量資金投入新市場。

You know from my previous comments that in our industry, we have not seen a tremendous amount of innovation take place. What we have done as the most innovative is we have simply optimized everything that existed when we started the company.

從我之前的評論中您知道，在我們的行業中，我們還沒有看到大量的創新發生。我們所做的最具創新性的就是簡單地優化了公司成立時存在的一切。

The next phase of growth for this business is to create you will begin to see, in the beginning of '26, creation, new products, new ways of delivering the business, new uses for spread. And so I look at the business as incredibly healthy. It's been a little more difficult to forecast the flow-through and the burn-off, because business burned off faster given the spread compression than we wanted, which is, on the one hand, negative for the current quarters, but better for future quarters, because more of it burned off. Having said that, I see no reason to, in any way, deviate from our long-term projection of where we think the business is going.

這個業務的下一個成長階段是創造，在 26 年初，您將開始看到創造、新產品、新的業務方式、新的傳播用途。因此我認為我們的業務非常健康。預測流通量和消耗量有點困難，因為考慮到利差壓縮，業務消耗的速度比我們預期的要快，一方面，這對當前季度來說是不利的，但對未來季度來說則更好，因為消耗量會更大。話雖如此，我認為沒有理由以任何方式偏離我們對業務發展方向的長期預測。

And I'll turn it over to Martin.

我現在將其交給馬丁。

Yeah. The only thing I'd add is, obviously, it's a very dynamic and fluid environment. Q1 market spreads were historically tight, and we spoke about that on the call. I spoke about our investing spreads for the year -- for the half at 130 basis points. It was wider than that in Q2. It was inside that in Q1. And then in the month of July, we've seen it wider than that.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，顯然這是一個非常動態和流動的環境。第一季的市場利差處於歷史低位，我們在電話會議上談到了這一點。我談到了我們今年的投資利差——上半年為 130 個基點。它比第二季的範圍更廣。它位於 Q1 裡面。然後在七月份，我們看到了比這更廣泛的影響。

So the setup for us as far as we can tell right now looks promising. And so we're managing that in view of the existing portfolio that Marc mentioned. So we're clearly focused on 10% through cycle growth.

因此，就我們目前所知，我們的設置看起來很有希望。因此，我們根據馬克提到的現有投資組合來管理這一點。因此，我們顯然專注於實現 10% 的周期成長。

That remains our objective here, and we're managing that through an environment, which is dynamic. So we'll provide a more specific update on 2026 as we get closer to the end of this year. But I think we are running the business very well. We're originating liabilities in the right channels well, and we are able to access origination that's very favorable to us, and that's coming through in the new asset spreads that we're speaking to.

這仍然是我們的目標，我們透過一個動態的環境來管理它。因此，隨著今年年底的臨近，我們將提供有關 2026 年的更具體的更新。但我認為我們的業務經營得很好。我們正在正確的管道中很好地發起負債，並且我們能夠獲得對我們非常有利的發起，而這正在透過我們正在談論的新資產利差來實現。

Patrick Davitt, Autonomous Research.

戴維特（Patrick Davitt），自主研究。

My question is actually on Athora-PIC. I understand there's still a lot of regulatory hoops to jump through, so it might be tough to give specifics. But is there any color you can give on potential FRE impacts or even the Athora valuation impact on Athene's balance sheet when that closes next year? Thank you.

我的問題實際上是關於 Athora-PIC 的。我知道還有很多監管環節需要通過，因此很難給出具體細節。但是，您能否說明潛在的 FRE 影響，甚至 Athora 估值對 Athene 明年收盤時的資產負債表的影響？謝謝。

I think your preface kind of sums it up. It is early, and there are still a number of regulatory hurdles. What I will say is we expect this transaction, should it close, to be accretive to Athora's valuation and over time, to be accretive to FRE. The scale of PIC relative to the UK market is the scale of Athene relative to the US market. And I'm going to speak about it in strategy terms rather than numbers, which I know you will find unsatisfying, but it's where we are.

我認為你的序言已經總結了這一點。現在還為時過早，仍有許多監管障礙。我想說的是，我們預計這筆交易一旦完成，將會增加 Athora 的估值，隨著時間的推移，也會增加 FRE 的估值。PIC 相對於英國市場的規模相當於 Athene 相對於美國市場的規模。我將從戰略角度而不是數字角度來談論這個問題，我知道你們可能對此感到不滿意，但這就是我們的現狀。

We have a massive need for assets in the US as a result of Athene. That has incented us to create massive amounts of origination. And since we are a diversified investor, that origination that we create, a portion of it goes to Athene, but a portion of it builds our third-party business, which is aligned with us.

由於 Athene 事件，我們對美國資產的需求龐大。這激勵我們進行大量的創新。由於我們是多元化投資者，我們創建的發起方，一部分資金流向了 Athene，但另一部分資金則用於建立與我們一致的第三方業務。

We have not heretofore had an incentive to massively create pound-denominated assets. PIC is as an anchor through Athora. And depending on what the management team at PIC wants, PIC is the opportunity to create a massive pound-based origination ecosystem, which will both benefit Athora PIC and will benefit all of our clients and open up a significant amount of client base in the UK market.

我們迄今為止還沒有動力去大規模創造以英鎊計價的資產。PIC 透過 Athora 充當錨點。根據 PIC 管理團隊的需求，PIC 有機會創建一個基於英鎊的大規模發起生態系統，這不僅有利於 Athora PIC，也有利於我們所有的客戶，並在英國市場開拓大量客戶群。

And similarly, as you know, we have a euro-based funding, which is not as large as we had hoped it to be, but still quite large in the scheme of the continent. And it is our job, consistent with some of Jim's remarks about the attractiveness of Europe. And I think what you'll see from us over the coming quarters is to significantly build our requirements for euro-denominated liabilities.

同樣，如你所知，我們有以歐元為基礎的資金，雖然規模不如我們所希望的那麼大，但在整個非洲大陸來說仍然相當大。這是我們的工作，與吉姆關於歐洲吸引力的一些言論一致。我認為，在接下來的幾個季度中，您將會看到我們大幅增加歐元計價債務的要求。

This is a virtuous circle. We create a funding box. The funding box needs assets. We build origination around that funding box. The origination serves the funding box itself. It also creates capital markets fees, and then it creates FRE, because we also have excess product, which we then are aligned with our investors on. I think momentum is building in the business. I'm personally very excited about the PIC transaction.

這是一個良性循環。我們創建了一個資金箱。資金箱需要資產。我們圍繞著該資金箱建立起源。起源服務於資金箱本身。它還會產生資本市場費用，然後產生 FRE，因為我們還有多餘的產品，然後我們會與投資者保持一致。我認為業務發展勢頭正在增強。我個人對 PIC 交易感到非常興奮。

And the most interesting thing for me, it's coming at a moment of regulatory introspection and political introspection in the UK, which has made, from my point of view, the UK one of the most dynamic and exciting markets potentially for capital formation in private markets. The UK government has been incredibly welcoming and has recognized the need for private capital to exist alongside public capital to finance all of the things that the UK government wants to do in the context of its other budgetary end requirements. So we feel quite welcome there, and we intend to make a significant contribution and build to our resources in the UK.

對我來說最有趣的是，它發生在英國監管反省和政治反省的時刻，在我看來，這使得英國成為私人市場中最具活力和最令人興奮的資本形成潛力的市場之一。英國政府對此表示熱烈歡迎，並認識到私人資本與公共資本並存的必要性，以便為英國政府在其他預算最終要求的背景下想要做的所有事情提供資金。因此，我們在那裡感到非常受歡迎，我們打算做出重大貢獻並擴大我們在英國的資源。

Glenn Schorr, Evercore.

格倫·肖爾（Glenn Schorr），Evercore。

Simple question. I'm curious, you mentioned ADS is like $20 billion now and scaling well. So my question is, can ABC scale in right trail behind and tailwind of ADS, meaning, can you talk about the platform approval pipeline, the scalability, uniqueness of the product? Like where do you think this can go maybe using ADS as an example? Thanks.

簡單的問題。我很好奇，您提到 ADS 現在價值約 200 億美元，而且規模很大。所以我的問題是，ABC 能否在 ADS 的直接推動下實現擴展，也就是說，您能談談平台審批流程、可擴展性和產品的獨特性嗎？例如，您認為這可以以 ADS 為例去實現嗎？謝謝。

Great. Thank you, Bill. I think you're on to something. I mean, certainly, we saw, with ADS taking the strategy that Marc talked about and not reaching, but doing it with the Apollo brand, we clearly have positioned ourselves as one of the two or three leading players in that space. And taking that page, we believe we have the first-mover advantage in the ABF world with ABC. It's an area that -- it's all about origination-led.

偉大的。謝謝你，比爾。我認為你發現了一些道理。我的意思是，當然，我們看到，ADS 採用了馬克談到的策略，雖然沒有達到目標，但透過 Apollo 品牌來實現，我們顯然已經將自己定位為該領域的兩三家領先企業之一。從這個角度來看，我們相信，憑藉 ABC，我們在 ABF 領域擁有先發優勢。這是一個完全由起源主導的領域。

Certainly, the purchase several years ago of ATLAS with its 300 relationships is feeding into that. Early approvals are extremely strong. The breadth of clients institutionally and on Global Wealth approving the product is very, very strong. So we see a clear wake for that product to follow the success of ADS.

當然，幾年前收購 ATLAS 及其 300 個合作關係也促進了這項進程。早期的批准非常強勁。認可該產品的機構客戶和 Global Wealth 客戶範圍非常廣泛。因此，我們清楚地看到該產品將延續 ADS 的成功。

And again, I think because what investors out there see, not only is the -- as people are concerned about a credit cycle that someday will revisit us, the underlying risk in ABC is a greater degree of investment-grade counterparty risk. And so as you get later in the cycle, there's a great excitement for higher quality yield, which that certainly covers. But we feel the early indications lead us to believe that this will be the market-leading player. And now it's really up to us to execute the strategy and to follow through on our vision.

而且，我認為，因為投資者看到的不僅是——人們擔心有一天信貸週期會再次出現，ABC 的潛在風險是更大程度的投資等級交易對手風險。因此，隨著週期的後期，人們對更高品質的收益感到非常興奮，這當然也涵蓋了這一點。但我們感覺早期跡象讓我們相信這將成為市場領先的企業。現在真正要由我們來執行策略並實現我們的願景。

Bill Katz, TD Cowen.

比爾·卡茨（Bill Katz），TD Cowen。

It certainly feels like there was a step function of earnings power and just throughput of the platform. And when I look at some of these numbers on the origination or deployment, they are significant. And I'm sort of curious, what has changed in the last couple of quarters here? Is it just the breadth of clients that you're working for? Is it the capacity at the origination platform because it seems like not only to be sustainable, but they're sort of accelerating? I'm just trying to understand what the incremental driver has been. Thank you.

確實感覺獲利能力和平台吞吐量之間存在階躍函數關係。當我查看這些有關起源或部署的數字時，我發現它們意義重大。我有點好奇，過去幾季這裡發生了什麼變化？這僅僅是您所服務的客戶範圍的廣度嗎？是因為發起平台的容量似乎不只是可持續的，而且還在加速？我只是想了解增量驅動因素是什麼。謝謝。

Sure. I think what you're seeing, and it's a correct insight, it's just the power of the ecosystem. What Marc talked about in the CLO business, which was a black hour 20 years ago and now has become commoditized to some degree. And we're still a very large player in it, but it fits a different role. We're seeing that right now, even though we've increased our leverage, our capabilities in direct lending.

當然。我認為你所看到的是正確的見解，這只是生態系統的力量。Marc 講的 CLO 業務，20 年前是黑暗時刻，現在某種程度上已經商品化了。我們仍然是其中非常重要的參與者，但它適合不同的角色。我們現在看到，儘管我們已經提高了槓桿率和直接貸款能力。

Any one product can become commoditization. But if you deliver the entirety of the toolbox to either corporates, to finance companies, to financial sponsors, we're finding the power of that integrated toolbox is compelling. 24 months ago, we brought all of our origination globally under the leadership of Chris Edson. Certainly, there's many, many folks that contribute to that.

任何一種產品都可以商品化。但是，如果你將整個工具箱提供給企業、金融公司或金融贊助商，我們會發現該整合工具箱的威力是令人信服的。 24 個月前，我們將我們所有的全球起源都置於克里斯·埃德森的領導之下。當然，有很多人為此做出了貢獻。

But when we see delivering the consolidated toolbox and where you may get a product from a US or a European financial sponsor. It may be a direct lending product, but it also may be an inventory finance. It may be fund finance. It may be a CLO issuance. So the crossover impact is dramatic. And from our perspective, that is the ability for us to really accelerate the platform and that flywheel that Marc talked about.

但是當我們看到提供合併的工具箱時，您可能會從美國或歐洲金融贊助商那裡獲得產品。它可能是直接貸款產品，但也可能是庫存融資。可能是基金理財。這可能是CLO發行。因此交叉影響是巨大的。從我們的角度來看，這就是我們真正加速平台和馬克所說的飛輪的能力。

Also, we're finding is more and more financial sponsors are focused on the cost of capital. And if the PE overhang is dramatic and it doesn't appear to be waning anytime soon, your ability to provide a variety of financing tools for them in a variety of areas, several of which are investment-grade rated, that's the second compelling area.

此外，我們發現越來越多的金融贊助商開始關注資本成本。如果私募股權投資過剩現象嚴重，而且短期內似乎不會減弱，那麼你在各個領域為他們提供各種融資工具的能力（其中一些是投資級評級）就是第二個引人注目的領域。

And the third is, and I'll use ATLAS as a double-click for a moment. When the platforms engaged to purchase ATLAS, half the business at that point in time was an agency business, agency mortgages on the resi and commercial side. Those businesses we either sold or shut down, because they did not provide any excess spread for unit risk.

第三個是，我暫時使用 ATLAS 作為雙擊。當平台接手收購ATLAS時，當時一半的業務是代理業務，代理住宅和商業方面的抵押貸款。我們要么出售要么關閉這些業務，因為它們沒有為單位風險提供任何超額利差。

And now if you look at the actual origination platform at ATLAS, from 200 facilities, over 300 under the leadership of Carey Lathrop, they're really hitting their stride. So when you connect these businesses together as a combined toolbox and it's more investment-grade solutions, those are what's the accelerating factor.

現在，如果你看看 ATLAS 的實際發起平台，從 200 個設施到 Carey Lathrop 領導下的 300 多個設施，他們真的在大步前進。因此，當您將這些業務連接在一起作為一個組合工具箱並提供更多投資級解決方案時，這些就是加速因素。

Wilma Burdis, Raymond James.

威爾瑪伯迪斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Could you talk a little bit more about the other inflows in retirement services and what the outlook is there? I think the footnote mentions defined contribution plans, and we'd just like to get a little bit more color there. Thanks.

您能否再多談談退休服務領域的其他資金流入情況以及前景如何？我認為腳註中提到了固定繳款計劃，我們只是想對此進行更詳細的說明。謝謝。

Yeah. It's some of the emerging areas that Marc has been speaking about. So specific to that line item, it's stable value products. And that's an area that we are spending a lot of time around developing capabilities and distribution points. And we think that that's one of several new markets that will be the seeds of growth for Athene's business in the years ahead.

是的。這是馬克一直在談論的一些新興領域。因此具體到該項目，它是穩定價值的產品。我們在這個領域花費了大量時間來開發能力和分銷點。我們認為，這是未來幾年 Athene 業務成長的幾個新市場之一。

I think, Wilma, first up, thank you, and apologies for the last quarter, for what happened. We ended up not being able to take one of your questions last quarter. But just to expand on that a little bit for you, the industry has not really created that many new products. We have lots of variations on the theme.

我想，威爾瑪，首先我要感謝你，並對上個季度發生的事情表示歉意。上個季度我們未能回答您的一個問題。但稍微向您解釋一下，該行業實際上並沒有創造出那麼多新產品。我們對這個主題有很多變化。

And when you think about what's happened, and I've said this publicly before, the first insurance policy ever issued was one page, Scottish Widows. When you die, you get this. Now to buy a retirement product and annuity is 100 pages. Very few people can understand what they're buying. When people are uncomfortable with what they're buying, you tend not to buy as much of it.

當你思考發生了什麼事時，我之前也公開說過，有史以來簽發的第一份保險單只有一頁，即《蘇格蘭寡婦保險》。當你死去的時候，你就會得到這個。現在購買退休產品和年金有100頁。很少人能夠了解他們所購買的是什麼。當人們對所購買的東西感到不舒服時，往往就不會再買那麼多。

Having said that, the compelling need is still causing the market to be very sizable. Part of the change we see happening in this industry is getting back to something that is really simple. Really simple will initially take place in the existing products. Can we get to an immediate issuance of an annuity? Can we make the process less burdensome? Can we use new technology to streamline what it is we're doing? We don't have to do things the way we've done them historically. Can we make it more accessible and more understandable? This is the first step in the journey.

話雖如此，迫切的需求仍然導致市場規模非常大。我們看到這個行業正在發生的部分變化正在回歸到一些真正簡單的事情。真正簡單的首先會在現有的產品中進行。我們可以立即發放年金嗎？我們能否讓這個過程變得不那麼繁瑣？我們能否利用新科技來簡化我們正在做的事情？我們不必按照過去的方式去做事。我們能否讓它變得更容易接近和更容易理解？這是旅程的第一步。

The second step in the journey is a kind of more ambitious goal. The world of retirement went over a long period of time from defined benefit, which employees loved and employers hated. We then threw people to the walls and defined contribution. Very few people have advice. Very few people make choices. We've had good market performance, so we've had okay outcomes, but it is not as a result of positive selections made by the retirees. Most people actually make no decision with respect to their retirement options. They are simply defaulted into a variety of things.

旅程的第二步是一種更宏偉的目標。退休制度已經經歷了很長一段時間，從固定福利制度開始，員工喜歡而雇主討厭它。然後我們把人們扔到牆上並確定貢獻。很少人能給出建議。很少人會做出選擇。我們的市場表現良好，因此取得了不錯的業績，但這並不是退休人員積極選擇的結果。事實上，大多數人並未就退休選擇做出任何決定。他們只是默認了各種各樣的事情。

Part of the vision that we have for the world going forward is a return to defined benefit in the form of guaranteed income, not provided by the employers themselves, but providing people options within their 401(k), within their existing retirement structure to go for guaranteed lifetime income.

我們對未來世界的部分願景是回歸以有保障收入形式存在的固定福利，這種收入不是由雇主自己提供，而是在人們現有的退休結構內，為他們提供 401(k) 計劃內的選擇，以獲得有保障的終身收入。

Guaranteed lifetime income, as you know, since you follow this industry, one could say that's Aspida. But Aspida is not in a form that any real retiree can understand. But I do think that this is the big challenge ahead for our industry. I think it's the big opportunity ahead for our industry, which is not simply to think about our business of retirement in the context of the products that exist, but to think about it in the terms of simple guaranteed lifetime income. That is the holy grail for us.

保證終生收入，如您所知，既然您關注這個行業，那麼可以說這就是 Aspida。但 Aspida 的形式並不是任何真正的退休人員能夠理解的。但我確實認為這是我們這個行業面臨的巨大挑戰。我認為這是我們行業未來的巨大機遇，我們不能簡單地從現有產品的背景下考慮退休業務，而要從簡單的保證終生收入的角度來考慮。這對我們來說就是聖杯。

Along the way, we will have things like stable value. We will have other applications for spread-based product. Grant and Jim and LJ and the team are pushing really hard to have new products make up a significant portion of the originations on an ongoing basis. I want more choices, and we should want more choices than the four choices we have, because some of the markets will get commoditized. Our job is to simply keep moving and keep adapting much the way you've seen us do that on the origination side of our business, where we've seen commoditization of CLO spreads. Hopefully helpful.

在此過程中，我們將擁有諸如穩定價值之類的東西。我們將有其他基於塗抹的產品的應用。格蘭特 (Grant)、吉姆 (Jim)、LJ 和團隊正在竭盡全力推動新產品持續佔據產品來源的很大一部分。我想要更多的選擇，我們應該想要比現有的四個選擇更多的選擇，因為一些市場將會商品化。我們的工作就是不斷前進，不斷適應，就像您在我們業務的起源方面看到的那樣，我們已經看到了 CLO 利差的商品化。希望有幫助。

Ken Worthington, JPMorgan Chase.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

Can you talk about GeoWealth and what you aspire to do with this partnership?

您能談談 GeoWealth 以及您希望透過此次合作實現什麼嗎？

Yeah. I think like Marc just described, our whole goal is to continue to innovate on a journey that we don't know the exact destination, but we understand the objectives. And there's no doubt that the technology application of these types of TAMP managers, that skill set and that technology that allows us to deliver a product set with information with transparency, with clear information. And this was in the past, documentation and technology were barriers. We're looking at this to be part of the successful journey that arms us with the tools to be able to be more client-friendly, more client transparency, more information education.

是的。我認為就像馬克剛才所描述的那樣，我們的整個目標是在旅途中不斷創新，我們不知道確切的目的地，但我們了解目標。毫無疑問，這些類型的 TAMP 管理人員的技術應用、技能和技術使我們能夠提供包含透明、清晰資訊的產品集。而這在過去，文件和技術都是障礙。我們將其視為成功之旅的一部分，它將為我們提供工具，讓我們能夠更加客戶友好、更加客戶透明、提供更多資訊教育。

So we have a vision on where the journey is taking us. We don't have the exact destination in our crosshairs. But we want to arm ourselves with -- we believe in open architecture. We believe in the application of technology and education. And all of these things help us along that journey.

因此，我們對旅程將帶我們去往何方有一個願景。我們的瞄準點並沒有準確的目的地。但我們想武裝自己——我們相信開放式架構。我們相信科技與教育的應用。所有這些都幫助我們完成這趟旅程。

Ben Budish, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的本‧布迪什 (Ben Budish)。

Just wanted to follow up on the answer to Alex's question at the beginning of the Q&A session. Just trying to -- maybe you could help us understand a little bit better the shape of what we might see as the sort of during COVID business runs off. What's the expected timing there? What was the average duration of the liabilities you were writing? And when you get to the other side of that, should we sort of see the aggregate spreads kind of normalize back up to 130? Or how should we see it sort of play out tactically in the P&L when we see it quarter over quarter? Thank you.

只是想跟進問答環節開始時 Alex 的問題的答案。只是想——也許你可以幫助我們更好地理解在 COVID 期間我們可能會看到的業務流失的情況。預計時間是什麼時候？您所承保的負債的平均期間是多久？那麼，當您看到另一端時，我們是否應該看到整體利差恢復正常至 130 呢？或者，當我們逐季度觀察它時，我們應該如何看待它在損益表中的戰術表現？謝謝。

Yeah. I think the best evidence of that is part of the question you asked, which is when do the net spreads stabilize. And so we will expect to see that business continue to run off through next year. And so you should expect to see the reported net spreads decline slightly through that period of time. It will decline for the balance of the year and then stabilize. And then we are past the period of very low-cost liabilities and very rich assets against those liabilities running off through the system.

是的。我認為最好的證據就是您提出的問題的一部分，即淨利差何時會穩定下來。因此，我們預計明年業務將繼續蓬勃發展。因此，您應該會看到報告的淨利差在那段時間內略有下降。它將在今年餘下時間內下降，然後趨於穩定。然後我們就度過了負債成本極低、資產非常豐厚、而負債在系統中流失的時期。

So that's what we see. That's what we model. That's what we're seeing in the actual numbers. It's clearly quite predictable. And so at the same time, we're managing top-line growth of the business in view of the macro environment to achieve the growth ambitions.

這就是我們所看到的。這就是我們所模仿的。這就是我們在實際數字中看到的情況。這顯然是可以預見的。因此，同時，我們根據宏觀環境來管理業務的營收成長，以實現成長目標。

Michael Cyprys, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的麥可‧賽普里斯 (Michael Cyprys)。

I just wanted to ask about 401(k). I think you mentioned that you're on the cusp of serving the 401(k) marketplace. Just curious if you could elaborate a bit on how you see that opening up, what sort of changes, regulatory or otherwise, you're anticipating the time frame there?

我只是想問一下 401(k) 的問題。我想您提到過，您正處於服務 401（k）市場的邊緣。我只是好奇，您是否可以詳細說明您如何看待這種開放，以及您預計會出現什麼樣的變化，監管或其他方面的變化，時間框架如何？

And then if you could talk about some of the steps that you're taking to ensure that you're going to be a winner as that marketplace opens up. I know you already have some partnerships on the intermediary wealth side. Just curious if you might need additional partnerships, how you're approaching that, and what strategy you think might make the most sense in the 401(k) channel. Thanks.

然後，您可以談談您正在採取的一些措施，以確保您在市場開放時成為贏家。我知道你們在中介財富方面已經建立了一些合作關係。只是好奇您是否需要額外的合作夥伴關係，您如何處理這個問題，以及您認為在 401（k）頻道中最有意義的策略是什麼。謝謝。

Look, I'll do my best in the context of the call. I think Jim and I were just smiling looking at each other. First, the order is not out yet. So it's always dangerous to speculate on what does not yet exist. And then I do think the question will probably involve a whole day of answers.

瞧，我會在通話過程中盡力而為。我想吉姆和我只是微笑著看著對方。第一，訂單還沒下來。因此，對尚不存在的事物進行推測總是很危險的。然後我確實認為這個問題可能需要一整天的時間來回答。

But my take on it, the need is there. Everywhere in the world where private assets have been added to public portfolios, you've gotten better outcomes. The shining example is the Australian system, but it's the Israeli system, it's the Mexican system, it's the Chilean system, it's a number of other places.

但我認為，這種需求是存在的。世界上只要有私人資產被加入公共投資組合中，就會獲得更好的結果。最傑出的例子是澳洲的體系，但以色列的體系、墨西哥的體系、智利的體係以及其他一些地方的體係也是一樣。

And as I said in my discussion, it's not a little bit better outcomes. It's 50% and 100% better outcomes. This is not something that we need to sell. Plan sponsors, members of the ecosystem along the way, they understand this. And for the most part, they would like to include a more diverse set of assets with higher returns for retirees to build for their nesting. The impediments to that to date have been some on the embedded businesses, record-keeping, technology, reporting, but the primary problem has been litigation.

正如我在討論中所說的那樣，結果並不只是好一點點。結果好轉了 50% 甚至 100%。這不是我們需要出售的東西。計劃發起人、整個生態系統的成員都明白這一點。在大多數情況下，他們希望為退休人員提供更多樣化、回報更高的資產組合，以建立他們的退休生活。迄今為止，這一目標的障礙主要來自嵌入式業務、記錄保存、技術、報告等方面，但主要問題還是訴訟。

This has been a very litigious area where plan sponsors and others have basically been forced into taking the lowest cost option rather than the one that produces the best net return to the underlying beneficiary. That has limited -- because there's no prohibition right now on private assets. What we need is clarity and what we need is some clear rules of the road. Even in the absence of that, you are watching significant experimentation.

這是一個訴訟頻繁的領域，計劃發起人和其他人基本上被迫選擇成本最低的方案，而不是為受益人帶來最佳淨回報的方案。這是有限的——因為目前對私人資產沒有禁令。我們需要的是清晰度，我們需要的是一些明確的交通規則。即使沒有這些，你也在見證重要的實驗。

I don't know the exact number, but it will be a few billion dollars this year for us of origination into the 401(k) channel. It will be into managed platforms, and it will be into Target Date Funds. And I think that the Target Date Fund environment and the GOLs of the world are starting to tell a story that I see as the maturation of the private marketplace. And I'll compare it to what happened in the public markets.

我不知道確切的數字，但今年我們將從 401（k）管道獲得數十億美元的資金。它將進入管理平台，並將進入目標日期基金。我認為目標日期基金環境和世界各地的 GOL 開始講述一個故事，我將其視為私人市場的成熟。我會將其與公開市場發生的情況進行比較。

We used to think of people investing in public markets and buying stocks and bonds. People don't really buy stocks and bonds. They buy indices. They buy solutions. They buy outcomes. Right now, the private market is in the stock and bond purchasing. People pick this fund or that fund.

我們過去常常想到人們在公開市場投資併購買股票和債券。人們實際上並不買股票和債券。他們購買指數。他們購買解決方案。他們購買結果。目前，私人市場正處於股票和債券購買階段。人們選擇這個基金或那個基金。

As opposed to I want a 60-40 portfolio, and in my 60 portfolio, I want to have access to both public and private markets. In my 40 portfolio, I want access to public and private markets. Some people will want more alpha subordination. Some people will want less alpha. They're getting close to retirement, more certainty, investment grade.

與我想要的 60-40 投資組合相反，在我的 60 投資組合中，我希望能夠同時進入公開市場和私人市場。在我的 40 個投資組合中，我希望進入公共和私人市場。有些人會想要更多的阿爾法服從。有些人會希望減少 alpha。他們即將退休，更確定，投資等級也更高。

I believe that we will see the take-up of this not through the sale of funds directly. I think the primary access point for us will be indirect, either through participation in Target Date Funds or traditional asset managers who dominate this market already, recognizing that retiree portfolios that are really long dated, that are not supposed to be traded, are the perfect place for high-quality private.

我相信，我們將會看到這項措施的實施，而不是透過直接出售基金。我認為我們的主要切入點將是間接的，要么透過參與目標日期基金，要么透過參與已經主導這個市場的傳統資產管理公司，認識到真正長期的退休人員投資組合，不應該交易，是高品質私人投資的理想場所。

At the end of the day, I come back to what I believe about the structure of our industry. We are watching emerging sources of demand come together, which far exceed the capacity of our industry as it exists today to produce excess return per unit of risk private assets. I think the thing that has value in a more transparent world with lots of demand is origination. You find a good asset that offers excess return per unit of risk, you will get paid for it. You will get paid for it in fee. You will get paid for it by owning a piece of it. You will sell it to a fund, to an investor, to a co-investor, to a managed account, or to a 401(k).

最終，我回到了我對我們行業結構的看法。我們看到新興需求源不斷湧現，其規模遠遠超出了我們行業目前的能力，無法為每單位風險私人資產帶來超額回報。我認為，在一個更透明、需求更大的世界裡，最有價值的東西就是起源。如果您發現一項優質資產，該資產能夠提供每單位風險的超額回報，那麼您將獲得回報。您將獲得費用報酬。您將因擁有其中的一部分而獲得報酬。您可以將其出售給基金、投資者、共同投資者、管理帳戶或 401(k)。

And so the North Star for us is, yes, we need to serve all these markets. We need to have structures that adapt to the unique requirements of each market. We need to have more transparency. We need to have daily pricing. We need to have more liquid, which does not mean fully liquid, because that's not what is going to happen.

所以對我們來說，北極星是，是的，我們需要服務所有這些市場。我們需要有一個適應每個市場獨特需求的結構。我們需要更加透明。我們需要每日定價。我們需要更多的流動性，但這並不意味著完全的流動性，因為那是不可能的。

But at the end of the day, we have to originate. And I'm excited about what we're doing. And the journey, as Jim said, is just starting. It's not like we're at the end of a mature cycle. It's all in front of us.

但最終，我們必須開創事業。我對我們正在做的事情感到非常興奮。正如吉姆所說，旅程才剛開始。這並不意味著我們已經處於成熟週期的末期。一切都在我們眼前。

Brian Bedell, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的 Brian Bedell。

I appreciate all the color today. This is a fantastic information. Two-parter question, if I can do that. First, on Capital Solutions, another solid quarter here. Maybe just some perspective on sort of the road map of new initiatives within this since Investor Day and maybe focusing on the trading of private credit.

我很欣賞今天的所有色彩。這是一條非常棒的訊息。分為兩部分的問題，如果我可以做到的話。首先，就資本解決方案而言，本季業績表現穩健。也許只是對投資者日以來的新舉措路線圖的一些看法，也許重點關注私人信貸交易。

I think, Marc, you mentioned earlier, the potential for Capital Solutions to pace at a level above the $1 billion target in '29 or to meet that target sooner, I guess. And then just quickly on SRE, just the rate cut assumptions that you have in your guidance for this year and then sensitivity to more rate cuts if that happens.

馬克，我認為你之前提到過，Capital Solutions 有可能在 29 年達到 10 億美元的目標以上，或更早實現這一目標。然後快速談談 SRE，即您在今年的指導中提出的降息假設，以及如果發生進一步降息的敏感性。

Yes. So this is Jim. I'll take the first one. There's definitely a connection in the ecosystem of ACS and the trading ecosystem. And certainly, what ACS has done for us, if you go back five years, it took our traditional narrow unit of our LPs and clearly has expanded that dramatically.

是的。這就是吉姆。我要第一個。ACS 生態系統和交易生態系統之間肯定存在關聯。當然，如果回顧五年前，ACS 為我們所做的一切，它取代了我們傳統的狹窄的 LP 單元，並且顯然大大擴展了該單元。

So on a day-to-day basis right now and month-to-month, our touch points have dramatically increased. And so as Martin mentioned, 100 transactions in the quarter, the breadth of our ability to distribute investment-grade, noninvestment-grade, equity, and hybrid product has made us smarter, and it's that ecosystem, that flywheel on origination.

因此，就目前而言，我們的日常和每月接觸點都大幅增加。正如馬丁所提到的，本季有 100 筆交易，我們分銷投資級、非投資級、股票和混合產品的能力廣度使我們變得更加聰明，這就是生態系統，這就是起源的飛輪。

So I think you're going to see, in the absence of any -- before I get to trading, I think there's a maturity of the ACS product set across our universe, and we were very active in the quarter. I think combined with that now, when we see our dialogue with more and more investors that are some of the traditionals, other insurance companies, there's no doubt more transparency, more information, more confidence in what they're buying is going to expand the pie.

因此，我認為您會看到，在沒有任何交易的情況下，我認為我們整個宇宙中的 ACS 產品已經成熟，並且我們在本季度非常活躍。我認為，結合現在的情況，當我們看到我們與越來越多的傳統投資者和其他保險公司進行對話時，毫無疑問，更高的透明度、更多的資訊、對他們所購買的產品更有信心，將會擴大市場份額。

And so we have the good fortune that this is our 40th collective year in the business or 80th between Marc and I. And whenever we see the ability to open up transparency, investor information, investor education and confidence, that expands the pie. There are others that have a different view of that. We think Evolution and Darwinian history will be on our side of history in this one.

因此，我們很幸運，這是我們共同從事該行業 40 年，或者說我和馬克共同從事該行業 80 年。每當我們看到能夠開放透明度、投資者資訊、投資者教育和信心時，我們的蛋糕就會越來越大。其他人對此有不同的看法。我們認為，這一次，進化論和達爾文歷史將站在我們這一邊。

And I can't tell you exactly how it's going to occur. But when I see the conversations regarding stablecoins and when you think about the tokenization that's occurred in our funds in a very meaningful way in a narrow band, but not yet really impacted broadly, we just feel this whole area of trading and liquidity and provisions of liquidity to clients will expand that ecosystem. Some may be bidding offer spread. Some may be on volumes during dislocations. Some may be on indexing and better ability to create products.

我無法確切地告訴你它將如何發生。但是，當我看到有關穩定幣的討論，並考慮到我們的基金在狹窄的範圍內以非常有意義的方式發生的代幣化，但尚未真正受到廣泛影響時，我們只是覺得整個交易和流動性領域以及向客戶提供流動性將擴大該生態系統。有些可能是投標報價差價。有些可能在位錯期間存在於體積上。有些可能與索引和更好的產品創造能力有關。

But this is all about that flywheel and expanding one more chapter to it. And it's very early days. We're having great success, but the broader impact will be felt in 12 to 24 months.

但這全是關於飛輪的，也擴展了它的一個章節。現在還處於早期階段。我們取得了巨大的成功，但更廣泛的影響將在 12 到 24 個月內顯現。

I think on the SRE, we'll follow up offline because we have two more questions, and the call has been among our longest calls. So next up.

我認為在 SRE 方面，我們會進行線下跟進，因為我們還有兩個問題，而且這次通話是我們通話時間最長的通話之一。接下來。

John Barnidge, Piper Sandler.

約翰·巴尼奇、派珀·桑德勒。

My question is around realizations. They've remained muted and below historic levels. With markets activity beginning to pick up broadly, are you expecting an inflection point later this year? Or do you think it will be more next? Thank you.

我的問題是關於實現的。它們一直保持低迷狀態且低於歷史水平。隨著市場活動開始全面回暖，您是否預計今年稍後會出現轉折點？或者您認為接下來還會有更多？謝謝。

Well, in our portfolio, as Marc mentioned, we have -- in the key industry, Fund IX has 0.7 DPI versus the industry of 0.2, and we're early days on Fund X, 0.2 versus 0. So we're ahead of the pack, although it's not at our level of expectations.

嗯，在我們的投資組合中，正如馬克所提到的，在關鍵產業中，基金 IX 的 DPI 為 0.7，而產業為 0.2，而基金 X 尚處於早期階段，DPI 為 0.2，而產業為 0。因此，儘管我們還沒有達到預期的水平，但我們仍處於領先地位。

I do believe you will see greater monetizations as the risk appetite for the marketplace continues to expand. We stay at these levels. But I do think the broader solutions as an industry to how to solve the PE overhang of monetizations is not just going to occur because of what happens in the IPO market. I think other tools and products will be created. It's a longer conversation, but I don't think it's just an IPO story. I think there's a broader market structure issue and opportunity.

我確實相信，隨著市場風險偏好的不斷擴大，你會看到更大的貨幣化。我們保持在這些水平。但我確實認為，作為一個產業，解決 PE 貨幣化問題更廣泛的解決方案不會因為 IPO 市場的情況而出現。我認為將會創造出其他工具和產品。這是一個較長的對話，但我不認為這只是一個 IPO 故事。我認為存在更廣泛的市場結構問題和機會。

Let me just tell on that. Our peer group have gone before in prior calls and have been relatively optimistic on the realization cycle. I hope they're right. I don't think the realization cycle is unique to any one firm. I think in this case, it applies across the board.

讓我簡單講一下這一點。我們的同行在先前的電話會議中已經取得了進展，並且對實現週期持相對樂觀的態度。我希望他們是對的。我認為實現週期並不是任何一家公司獨有的。我認為在這種情況下，它適用於所有情況。

I think what we have going for us is a differentiated strategy, which does not always mean the right strategy. It just means a different strategy. We are a purchase price matters firm. You can like that; you could not like it. But our investors ultimately allocate to us because we provide a differentiated sort of risk across their portfolio.

我認為我們所採取的是差異化策略，但這並不總是意味著正確的策略。這只是意味著一種不同的策略。我們是一家採購價格事務公司。你可以喜歡它；但你不可能不喜歡它。但我們的投資者最終會將資產分配給我們，因為我們在他們的投資組合中提供了差異化的風險。

When you buy something at a reasonable price, you have more options on exit than when you have to get top tick because you paid a high multiple and you need to grow into it. We have been successful in cash flowing our investments. We have been successful in taking them public, even if below the valuations we want, because we simply had a purchase price matters mentality. It's why the net gross in Fund IX and Fund X and the DPI is ahead of it.

當你以合理的價格購買某樣東西時，你在退出時會擁有更多的選擇，而不是因為你支付了高額的倍數而必須獲得最高價，而且你需要成長。我們的投資已成功實現現金流轉。我們成功地將它們上市，即使其估值低於我們想要的水平，因為我們只是抱著購買價格很重要的心態。這就是為什麼基金 IX、基金 X 和 DPI 的淨總額領先於它的原因。

But I heard the optimism. I hope they're right. If it happens, we're going to be the beneficiary of that. If it doesn't happen, we're going to continue to do what we do.

但我聽到了樂觀的聲音。我希望他們是對的。如果發生這種情況，我們將成為受益者。如果沒有發生，我們將繼續做我們正在做的事情。

Kyle Voigt, KBW.

凱爾·沃伊特（Kyle Voigt），KBW。

So in your prepared remarks, you noted you expected continued strong growth for AAA, but also highlighted institutional fundraising there and that institutions are now reevaluating the idea of equity replacement and doing so sooner than you previously thought. I was wondering if you could just expand upon some of those conversations you're having with LPs on that front. How has that changed more recently and whether you think you're potentially at an inflection point there?

因此，在您準備好的發言中，您指出您預計 AAA 將繼續強勁增長，但同時也強調了機構融資，並且機構現在正在重新評估股權置換的想法，並且比您之前想像的要早。我想知道您是否可以詳細說明您與 LP 在這方面進行的一些對話。最近這種情況有何變化？您是否認為您可能正處於轉折點？

So we closed the quarter, Martin, correct me if I'm wrong, north of $23 billion. We'll close the year north of $25 billion. When we conceived of this product, we conceived the product in partnership with our Global Wealth counterparts. And we conceived of the product as a retail product. This was a way for the high net worth investor to access a diversified portfolio in a fully aligned fashion with relatively low fees and get broad participation in private markets, excess return per unit of risk, good returns, 12 and change, a lifetime to date with a fraction of the vol of the S&P.

因此，馬丁，如果我們錯了，請糾正我，我們在本季的銷售額超過了 230 億美元。今年我們的銷售額將超過 250 億美元。當我們構思這個產品時，我們與全球財富同行合作構思了這個產品。我們將該產品設想為零售產品。這是一種讓高淨值投資者以完全一致的方式獲得多元化投資組合、費用相對較低的方式，並廣泛參與私人市場、獲得每單位風險的超額回報、良好的回報、12 和變化，迄今為止的一生只具有標準普爾指數波動率的一小部分。

We went to market. And yes, we did penetrate and have continued to penetrate the retail market. The surprise to us, which is always fun in our business, is the institutional need and institutional demand for the product. An institution that wants a fully diversified portfolio by vintage, by type, by structure, by industry can actually sit side by side with us in a fully aligned fashion. And what I like and what Jim likes about this is institutions continue to evolve this because some institutions look at this and they say, well, this is slightly below PE returns.

我們去市場了。是的，我們確實滲透了零售市場，而且還在持續滲透。令我們驚訝的是，機構對產品的需求和機構需要，這在我們的業務中總是很有趣的。一個希望在年份、類型、結構和行業方面實現完全多元化投資組合的機構實際上可以以完全一致的方式與我們並肩坐在一起。我喜歡這一點，吉姆也喜歡這一點，因為一些機構看到這一點後會說，這略低於市盈率。

And we say, of course, it's below PE returns, it's not levered. And so we have institutional clients who have now -- as a result of inbounds, we've created a levered share class for AAA, long-dated, low-cost leverage on a reasonable basis where an institution can get a buy-in to this fund and can buy the levered share class and actually produce PE returns with a fraction of the return of PE. That is the place we have seen a couple of really large tickets come in.

當然，我們會說，它的本益比低於本益比，沒有槓桿。因此，我們現在有了機構客戶——由於入場，我們為 AAA 創建了一個槓桿股票類別，該類別具有合理的長期、低成本槓桿，機構可以買入該基金，可以購買槓桿股票類別，實際上以 PE 回報的一小部分產生 PE 回報。我們就在那裡看到幾張巨額罰單。

We also have seen a significant amount of demand coming from ICOLI for all the reasons you would expect that of ICOLI, given the stability of returns and the aligned investment. I continue to believe that leveraging of more broadly diversified risk of AAA rather than trying to shoot the lights out for highly levered PE in these retail vehicles to be the right strategy. It's not everyone's strategy. It's what our strategy is. But I'm very optimistic about the institutional side of AAA, which is a market we quite frankly did not envision when we formed the vehicle, but pleased that we've developed it.

我們也看到來自 ICOLI 的大量需求，原因正如您所預料的那樣，考慮到回報的穩定性和一致的投資。我仍然相信，利用 AAA 的更廣泛分散風險，而不是試圖在這些零售工具中大肆追求高槓桿的市盈率，才是正確的策略。這並不是每個人的策略。這就是我們的策略。但我對 AAA 的機構方面非常樂觀，坦白說，這是我們在成立該工具時沒有預料到的市場，但很高興我們已經開發了它。

Thank you. At this time, I would like to turn the floor back over to Mr. Gunn for closing comments.

謝謝。現在，我想把發言權交還給岡恩先生，請他發表最後評論。

Great. Thanks, operator, and thank you again, everyone, for all the time and attention this morning. If you have any follow-up questions regarding anything we discussed on today's call, please, of course, feel free to reach out to us, and we look forward to speaking with you again next quarter. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝接線員，再次感謝大家今天上午的時間和關注。如果您對我們今天電話會議中討論的任何內容有任何後續問題，請隨時與我們聯繫，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time and enjoy the rest of your day.

女士們、先生們，今天的活動到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路或退出網路廣播，享受剩餘的一天。