Apollo Global Management Inc (APO) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Apollo Global Management's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) This conference call is being recorded. This call may include forward-looking statements and projections, which do not guarantee future events or performance. Please refer to Apollo's most recent SEC filings for risk factors related to these statements.

早安，歡迎參加阿波羅全球管理公司 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）本次電話會議正在錄音。本次電話會議可能包括前瞻性陳述和預測，這些陳述和預測不保證未來事件或表現。請參閱 Apollo 最新的 SEC 文件，以了解與這些聲明相關的風險因素。

Apollo will be discussing certain non-GAAP measures on this call, which management believes are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business. These non-GAAP measures are reconciled to GAAP figures in Apollo's earnings presentation, which is available on the company's website. Also note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to purchase any interest in Apollo Fund.

阿波羅將在本次電話會議上討論某些非公認會計準則指標，管理階層認為這些指標與評估業務的財務表現有關。這些非 GAAP 指標與 Apollo 收益報告中的 GAAP 數據進行了協調，可在公司網站上查閱。另請注意，本次電話會議中的內容並不構成出售阿波羅基金任何權益的要約或購買要約的邀請。

I would now like to turn the call over to Noah Gunn. Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話轉給 Noah Gunn。全球投資者關係主管。請繼續。

Great. Thanks, operator, and welcome again, everyone, to our call. Joining me to discuss our results and the momentum we're seeing across the business are Marc Rowan, CEO; Jim Zelter, President; and Martin Kelly, CFO.

偉大的。謝謝接線員，再次歡迎大家接聽我們的電話。與我一起討論我們的業績以及我們在整個業務中看到的勢頭的是首席執行官馬克·羅文 (Marc Rowan)；總裁 Jim Zelter；以及財務長馬丁凱利 (Martin Kelly)。

Earlier this morning, we published our earnings release and financial supplement on the Investor Relations portion of our website. As you can see, fourth quarter results punctuated a very strong year of performance. In the quarter specifically, we generated record fee-related earnings of $554 million or $0.90 per share. Spread related earnings of $841 million or $1.37 per share and adjusted net income of $1.4 billion or $2.22 per share, the highest quarterly level we've earned to date.

今天早些時候，我們在網站的投資者關係部分發布了我們的收益報告和財務補充資訊。如您所見，第四季度的業績標誌著這一年的業績非常強勁。具體來說，本季我們創造了創紀錄的費用相關收益 5.54 億美元或每股 0.90 美元。相關收益為 8.41 億美元，即每股 1.37 美元，調整後淨利潤為 14 億美元，即每股 2.22 美元，這是我們迄今為止所獲的最高季度水準。

The fourth quarter represented another milestone for us as we were thrilled to be added to the S&P 500 in December. This is a testament to the firm's differentiated strategy, remarkable growth and institutionalization as a public company. Since we listed on the NYSE in 2011, our market cap has grown from approximately $2 billion to more than $100 billion.

第四季對我們來說代表了另一個里程碑，因為我們很高興在 12 月被納入標準普爾 500 指數。這證明了該公司作為一家上市公司的差異化策略、顯著的成長和製度化。自 2011 年在紐約證券交易所上市以來，我們的市值已從約 20 億美元成長至 1,000 多億美元。

We expect our inclusion will broaden our public shareholder base and enable more investors to gain exposure to private markets by investing in our business. Of course, this milestone would not have been possible without the collective effort and ingenuity of all our colleagues across the firm who drive the business forward every day.

我們預計，我們的納入將擴大我們的公眾股東基礎，並使更多的投資者能夠透過投資我們的業務進入私人市場。當然，如果沒有公司全體同事的共同努力和智慧，這個里程碑是不可能實現的，正是他們每天推動公司業務的發展。

And with that, I'll now hand the call over to Marc.

現在，我將把電話交給馬克。

Thank you, Noah, and good morning to all. As Noah suggested, 2024 wrapped up in exactly the way we wanted, growth and execution. FRE for the quarter $2.1 billion, up 17% year-over-year. SRE $3.2 billion, in line with Investor Day guidance. Record annual ANI $4.6 billion.

謝謝你，諾亞，大家早安。正如諾亞所說，2024 年的結局正如我們所期望的那樣，實現了成長和執行。本季的 FRE 為 21 億美元，年增 17%。SRE 為 32 億美元，符合投資者日指引。年度 ANI 達到創紀錄的 46 億美元。

As we've often suggested the reward for good work is more work. Record AUM, $751 billion, total inflow is $150 billion and origination volume over $220 billion. In short, this is exactly the quarter and exactly the year we wanted. Recall what we are trying to do and what we've reiterated in our five year planning process, we are not here to grow the fastest. We are not here to grow the largest. We are here to deliver the plan plus a little and like who we are and like our franchise at the end of the five year journey.

正如我們常說的，出色的工作所帶來的回報就是更多的工作。創紀錄的 AUM 為 7,510 億美元，總流入量為 1,500 億美元，發起量超過 2,200 億美元。簡而言之，這正是我們想要的季度和年份。回想一下我們正在努力做的事情以及我們在五年規劃過程中重申的事情，我們並不是為了實現最快的成長。我們來這裡不是為了發展而成為最大的。我們來這裡是為了實現這個計劃，並且附加一點，就像我們是誰以及在五年旅程結束時的特許經營權一樣。

As we've said, our goal over the next five years is to grow FRE at an average annual rate of 20%, SRE at 10% and in any one year, FRE between 15% and 20%, particularly in non-fundraising years. This is exactly what we hope to do. And again, we are not here to blow the doors off any one quarter. We are investing in the business because what's in front of us, dwarfs, what's behind us, and it is important that we set ourselves up well for that opportunity.

正如我們所說，我們未來五年的目標是使 FRE 以年均 20% 的速度增長，SRE 以 10% 的速度增長，並且在任何一年中，FRE 都保持在 15% 到 20% 之間，特別是在非融資年份。這正是我們所希望要做的。我再說一遍，我們來這裡不是為了打擊任何一方。我們之所以投資這項業務，是因為我們面前的東西使我們相形見絀，而我們身後的東西使我們相形見絀，因此，我們必須為這個機會做好準備。

At a recent partner's offsite, we gather all 200 partners of Apollo. And among the questions I asked them was, if we have a challenge beating our five year plan, is that challenge, external or internal? 90% of the people recognize what I recognize is that challenge is internal. It is all about us executing, all about us aligning the resources that we have, making the right investments.

在最近的合作夥伴外部會議上，我們聚集了 Apollo 的全部 200 位合作夥伴。我問他們的一個問題是，如果我們在超越五年計畫的過程中遇到了挑戰，那麼這個挑戰是外部挑戰還是內部挑戰？90％的人都體認到，我所認識到的是，挑戰是內在的。這一切都關乎我們的執行，關乎我們如何整合所擁有的資源，如何進行正確的投資。

The market is coming our way. It doesn't mean every day. It doesn't mean every quarter, but I like the way the external environment is developing. And the toughest thing we do, and I know this will sound somewhat trite, toughest thing we do and now that Jim does because I get to share the responsibility with him is to keep the team planning to win. Successful companies across our industry, across every industry, have a tendency to play not to lose. And with the amount of change that our industry is facing and the amount of opportunity in front of us, we want the team that steps up every day and plays to win.

市場正在向我們走來。這並不意味著每天。這並不意味著每個季度，但我喜歡外部環境的發展方式。我們所要做的最艱難的事情，我知道這聽起來可能有些老套，我們所要做的最艱難的事情，現在由吉姆來做，因為我要與他分擔責任，就是讓團隊繼續計劃獲勝。我們這個產業，以及每個產業的成功企業，都傾向於不失敗。隨著我們的行業面臨的變化和我們面前的機會越來越多，我們希望團隊每天都能努力爭取勝利。

The strategy, as you know, is set. So what is playing to win look like? Well, for us, it is to recognize where we think the industry is going and how we think the industry is developing. As we've said, our business is going to be driven by four really large fundamental changes taking place in the marketplace. The first is this notion of a global industrial renaissance. We're seeing it literally every day in the US in particular. And this is not just about AI and deep sea. This is amount fundamental investments in energy and infrastructure, in power and data and next-generation manufacturing and a host of other things that are going to be needed, financed and borrowed.

正如您所知，策略已經確定。那麼，爭取勝利是什麼樣子的呢？嗯，對我們來說，這是為了認識到我們認為這個行業的發展方向以及我們認為這個行業的發展方式。正如我們所說，我們的業務將受到市場上正在發生的四大根本性變化的推動。首先是全球工業復興的概念。我們幾乎每天都能看到這種情況，尤其是在美國。這不僅涉及人工智慧和深海。這是對能源和基礎設施、電力和數據、下一代製造業以及許多其他需要融資和借貸的東西的大量基本投資。

The second big driver of our business is retirement, retirement, not just in the traditional sense through Athene of providing guaranteed lifetime income, but in the nontraditional sense of helping retirees retire better. The third, recall that our entire industry was built out of the alternatives bucket of institutional clients. As all of you know from the past few years, individuals have the potential to be as large as institutions in the same sorts of products, and they will not take anywhere near 40 years to get to that size.

我們業務的第二大驅動力是退休，退休不僅是透過 Athene 以傳統意義上提供有保障的終身收入，而且以非傳統意義上幫助退休人員更好地退休。第三，回想一下，我們的整個產業都是由機構客戶的替代品組成的。從過去幾年的經驗來看，個人投資者在同類產品中擁有與機構投資者一樣大的潛力，而且用不了 40 年的時間就能達到這樣的規模。

And finally, and I think personally the most important driver of our business is an entire rethink of public and private. And what I mean by that is our industry grew up where I think people thought private was risky and public was safe. And when something is risky, you put it in a small bucket and you call it an alternative and you want very high rates of return from it.

最後，我個人認為我們業務最重要的驅動力是對公共和私人的徹底重新思考。我的意思是，我認為我們的產業是在人們認為私營有風險、公共有安全的觀念下發展起來的。當某件事有風險時，你會把它放在一個小桶裡，稱之為一種替代品，並希望從中獲得非常高的報酬率。

And 40 years later, after our industry starts, I think that professionals in our industry now understand that private is safe and risky and public and safe and risky. And if people are not watching closely, the largest asset manager, the traditional asset manager in our industry has delivered a wake-up call to their entire peer set, that private is going to be an important part of client solutions going forward.

40年後，在我們的行業起步之後，我認為我們行業的專業人士現在明白私營企業既安全又有風險，公共企業既安全又有風險。如果人們不密切關注的話，我們行業中最大的資產管理公司、傳統資產管理公司已經向整個同行發出了警鐘，即私人資產管理將成為未來客戶解決方案的重要組成部分。

So let me spend a little bit on each of these four drivers. When we think about the global industrial renaissance to us, this is the largest place we can originate. It is not just the origination coming off our 16 owned platforms, but it is the unique bespoke underwritings for the Intels and others to build the next-generation economy. This quarter, second best quarter ever, more than $60 billion of originations.

因此，讓我花一點時間來分別討論這四個驅動因素。當我們思考全球工業復興時，對我們來說，這是我們能夠發源的最大的地方。這不僅是我們自有 16 個平台的起源，也是為英特爾和其他公司打造下一代經濟的獨特客製化承保。本季是有史以來第二好的季度，貸款發放超過 600 億美元。

Originations are not just about putting capital out the door. It's about putting capital out the door at excess return per unit of risk. We want to originate that which has value, so long as we originate and capture spread by offering clients things they cannot buy in liquid public markets, we will win. It is not simply chasing a number for the quarter.

發起並不只是把資本投入出去。這是關於以每單位風險的超額回報投入資本。我們希望創造有價值的東西，只要我們能夠為客戶提供他們在流動的公開市場上無法買到的東西，並獲得利差，我們就會獲勝。這並非簡單地追求季度的數字。

In retirement, yes, we are well set up to serve retirement. Athene is the largest in the industry, continues to have industry-leading market share and for the year, generated more than $70 billion of organic inflows. $70 billion could have been $75 billion or $80 billion. It is not our goal, as I suggested, to grow disproportionately in any one quarter or in any one year. And to give you a sense of momentum and retirement, just January of Athene inflows, more than $9 billion. That should not be 12 times $9 billion for the year because that is not what we seek to do. We seek to earn excess returns.

是的，退休後，我們已經做好退休的準備了。Athene 是業內最大的企業，繼續保持行業領先的市場份額，並且今年產生了超過 700 億美元的有機流入。 700億美元原本可能是750億美元或800億美元。正如我所說，我們的目標不是在任何一個季度或一年內實現不成比例的成長。為了讓大家了解動力和退休的情況，光是 1 月雅典娜基金的流入就超過 90 億美元。這個數字不應該是每年 90 億美元的 12 倍，因為這不是我們想要做的。我們追求賺取超額報酬。

And when we see opportunities to do that, we will be very aggressive. And when returns are not as plentiful or not where we want them to be, we will back off. We run a principal-based business, and you can count us to be good responsible stewards of capital.

當我們看到這樣的機會時，我們就會非常積極地採取行動。當回報不夠豐厚或未達到我們的預期時，我們就會退出。我們經營以本金為基礎的業務，您可以相信我們是優秀、負責任的資本管家。

Elsewhere in retirement -- well, before I pivot from Athene, as I said, Athene has grown in traditional products that we would associate with the retirement industry, pension, funding agreements, individual annuities, group annuities and the like. We will continue to do that, and that will continue to be a growing market, but the future of Athene is about the next generation of retirement products. We as a company and we as an industry, have yet to really hit on our full potential, and I believe our full potential is to offer consumers and businesses and clients, much simpler solutions, guaranteed lifetime income versus a complex annuity is where I think the journey is focused.

在退休方面的其他方面 - 好吧，在我轉移話題之前，正如我所說，Athene 已經在與退休行業、退休金、融資協議、個人年金、團體年金等相關的傳統產品方面取得了增長。我們將繼續這樣做，這將繼續是一個不斷成長的市場，但 Athene 的未來在於下一代退休產品。我們作為一家公司、作為一個產業，尚未真正發揮我們的全部潛力，我相信我們的全部潛力在於為消費者、企業和客戶提供更為簡單的解決方案，保證終身收入，而非複雜的年金，我認為這才是我們未來的重點。

There are other forms of guaranteed income that are prevalent throughout our financial system that Athene also has the opportunity to make inroads in and to offer industry-leading solutions. Away from the pure retirement business built on Athene, Apollo Asset Management continues to make inroads into the retirement market. This is in the absence of any legislative or regulatory change as we suggested in our last get together we already had one CIT up and running in a retirement solution.

我們的金融體系中也普遍存在其他形式的保證收入，Athene 也有機會在這些形式中取得進展並提供領先業界的解決方案。除了建立在 Athene 基礎上的純退休業務外，阿波羅資產管理公司也繼續進軍退休市場。正如我們在上次聚會中所建議的那樣，在沒有任何立法或監管變化的情況下，我們已經在退休解決方案中建立並運行了一個 CIT。

We now have our second, and we are making really good progress with record keepers and continue to believe that target date funds, managed accounts and other forms of retirement solutions will offer a robust future in the absence of legislative change. And with legislative change, this could be one of the true drivers of our industry, not just our business going forward.

現在，我們已經有了第二個，我們在記錄保存方面取得了非常好的進展，並繼續相信，在沒有立法變化的情況下，目標日期基金、管理帳戶和其他形式的退休解決方案將提供一個強勁的未來。隨著立法的變化，這可能成為我們行業未來的真正驅動力之一，而不僅僅是我們業務的發展。

As to individuals, record results, $12 billion in 2024, up 50%, Q4 was our second best ever, just truly an exceptional year. And again, the philosophy by which we run this business is not to grow disproportionately in any one quarter. Consider ADS, we run this vehicle for the long term. We run it with the lease leverage, the most senior, the largest companies. We want to be around for the long term. We want to take advantage of market dislocation. If we're innovating, we're innovating in access.

就個人而言，創紀錄的業績，2024 年為 120 億美元，成長 50%，第四季是我們有史以來第二好的成績，確實是個特別的一年。再說一遍，我們經營這項業務的理念是不在任何一個季度實現不成比例的成長。考慮 ADS，我們將長期運行這輛車。我們利用租賃槓桿來經營，與最資深、最大的公司合作。我們希望能夠長期存在。我們想利用市場錯置的機會。如果我們要創新，那麼我們就是在訪問方面進行創新。

As you know, we now offer it in a tokenized format. We'll innovate in how to serve our clients, but as an investment proposition, excess return per unit of risk, purchase price matters, we run these businesses for the long term, not for any quarterly goal or otherwise. Jim will talk more about the diversified portfolio of products that we now offer to individuals, and I continue to believe this will be one of the most promising areas.

如您所知，我們現在以標記化的格式提供它。我們將在服務客戶的方式上進行創新，但作為一項投資主張，單位風險的超額回報和購買價格都很重要，我們經營這些業務是為了長期，而不是為了任何季度目標或其他什麼。吉姆將更多地談論我們現在向個人提供的多樣化產品組合，我仍然相信這將是最有前景的領域之一。

Just a word on public versus private before I wrap up and talk about a few other things. BlackRock made a number of very significant acquisitions in 2024. Those acquisitions lay a foundation for an integration of public and private. I continue to believe this convergence of public and private will be a very important source of demand for private assets. I see private assets in any number of forms. Our industry and our firm will be a supplier of product to traditional asset managers as they seek to make their products more competitive given the incredible amount of indexation and correlation and quite frankly, just data that exists in the market.

在我結束並談論其他一些事情之前，我只想談談公共與私人的問題。貝萊德在 2024 年進行了多項非常重要的收購案。這些收購為公私整合奠定了基礎。我始終相信，這種公私融合將成為私人資產需求的一個非常重要的來源。我看到過多種形式的私人資產。我們的行業和公司將成為傳統資產管理公司的供應商，因為考慮到市場上存在的大量指數化和相關性，以及坦率地說的數據，他們尋求使其產品更具競爭力。

We envision that traditional asset managers will evolve their businesses to include products that are public and private. Some traditional asset managers will actually want to launch new products that are co-branded. We are doing that as well. And some will seek to augment their business with massive managed accounts where they have access to private assets from a variety of different players. I think this is good for our entire industry.

我們預期傳統資產管理公司將拓展其業務範圍，涵蓋公募和私募產品。一些傳統的資產管理者其實會希望推出聯名品牌的新產品。我們也正在這麼做。有些公司會尋求透過大規模託管帳戶來擴大業務，這樣他們就可以獲得來自不同參與者的私人資產。我認為這對我們整個行業都有好處。

We will not, as an industry, serve the vast majority of clients around the world. We simply don't have the resources. We don't have the efficient systems and we don't have the relationships. What we do have so long as we're good at it, it's products that offer excess return per unit of risk. I see a very good marriage between our industry, our company, and the public or traditional asset managers who I believe are going to reinvent their businesses, spurred on by competitive forces.

作為一個行業，我們不會為全球絕大多數客戶提供服務。我們根本就沒有這些資源。我們沒有高效率的系統，也沒有關係。只要我們擅長，我們就能提供能為單位風險帶來超額回報的產品。我看到我們的產業、我們的公司和公眾或​​傳統資產管理者之間有著非常好的結合，我相信在競爭力量的推動下，他們將重塑其業務。

So enough on the market for a bit. I continue to think in summary, that we have four drivers, any one of which could be a double in our business, and they will power our business forward in terms of demand for private assets. I continue to believe that the carburetor, or limiter to growth in our business is limited to our capacity to originate good risk and to our culture and ability to absorb growth.

因此，市場上的情況就足夠了。總結起來，我繼續認為，我們有四個驅動因素，其中任何一個都可能對我們的業務產生雙重影響，它們將在私人資產需求方面推動我們的業務向前發展。我始終相信，我們業務成長的化油器或限制因素受限於我們承擔良好風險的能力以及我們的文化和吸收成長的能力。

We watch both very carefully, in particular, on originations. One of the things that we have begun to do this year is to figure out how to expand our origination engine in certain parts of our business, for instance, in infrastructure, we have decided to do some modest M&A. You noticed in the quarter the addition of Argo. Argo is an infrastructure manager will add some $6 billion of high-quality AUM to our platform, but the single most important factor in deciding to absorb Argo is the Argo team.

我們非常仔細地觀察這兩方面，尤其是起源方面。我們今年開始做的事情之一就是研究如何在我們業務的某些領域擴展我們的發起引擎，例如在基礎設施方面，我們決定進行一些適度的併購。您注意到本季增加了 Argo。Argo 是一家基礎設施管理公司，將為我們的平台增加約 60 億美元的優質 AUM，但決定吸收 Argo 的唯一最重要的因素是 Argo 團隊。

The capacities to continue to originate not just for their drawdown funds, but for our Evergreen retail funds, for our SMAs and managed accounts. And for all the vehicles of the Apollo platform is eye-opening to the Argo team and we will benefit by having a scaled business with an excellent track record join us. You should expect us to continue to do modest M&A along these same lines, where we are quite focused on increasing our capacity to originate. That is what we intend to do.

不僅要有能力繼續為其提取資金，還要為我們的常青零售基金、SMA 和託管帳戶提供資金。阿波羅平台的所有車輛都讓 Argo 團隊大開眼界，擁有良好業績記錄的規模化企業的加入也將使我們受益匪淺。您應該期望我們繼續沿著同樣的思路進行適度的併購，我們非常專注於提高我們的發起能力。這正是我們想做的事。

So I will leave lots of time for Q&A, and I'm sure we will talk about regulatory and the backdrop to what we do. But with that, I'm going to pass it over to my partner, to Jim Zelter.

因此我將留出大量時間進行問答，我相信我們將討論監管和我們工作的背景。但接下來，我將把它交給我的搭檔吉姆·澤爾特 (Jim Zelter)。

Thanks, Marc. At Investor Day, we discussed our view of today's investing paradigm, which is that private markets have a pivotal role to play in the financing, in the global industrial renaissance. As a society, we've laid out our massive global goals including hedging the energy transition, modernizing our power and utility grids and building next-generation digital infrastructure. Each of these has already created unprecedented need for capital. And in our view, these ambitions will be difficult to accomplish with our large-scale private capital solutions.

謝謝，馬克。在投資者日，我們討論了對當今投資模式的看法，即私人市場在全球工業復興的融資中發揮關鍵作用。作為一個社會，我們制定了宏偉的全球目標，包括對沖能源轉型、實現電力和公用電網現代化以及建立下一代數位基礎設施。這些都已經產生了前所未有的資本需求。我們認為，透過我們的大規模私人資本解決方案很難實現這些目標。

As we've discussed, our success is determined by our capacity to originate high-quality assets with excess return that benefit our fund partners and investors. The lack of flexible financing available today provides a unique opportunity to offer solutions that access our differentiated scaled capital base. While public IG funding is widely accessible, we believe we can provide superior flexibility, customization and certainty for borrowers and these capabilities are resonating in the marketplace.

正如我們所討論的，我們的成功取決於我們創造優質資產並帶來超額回報的能力，這些資產可以使我們的基金合作夥伴和投資者受益。目前缺乏靈活的融資，這為提供能夠利用我們差異化規模資本基礎的解決方案提供了一個獨特的機會。雖然公共投資級基金融資廣泛可用，但我們相信我們可以為借款人提供卓越的靈活性、客製化和確定性，這些能力在市場上引起了共鳴。

As Marc mentioned, our origination engine has had tremendous momentum with a record $222 billion of our assets originated across our ecosystem in the last 12 months, approximately double that of 2023. This result was driven by a meaningful contribution from each of our channels including more than $95 billion from our 16 origination platforms and more than $90 billion from traditional core credit and approximately $25 billion from high-grade corporate solutions and $10 billion from a variety of equity inputs.

正如馬克所提到的，我們的發起引擎有著巨大的發展勢頭，過去 12 個月，我們整個生態系統的資產發起量達到了創紀錄的 2220 億美元，大約是 2023 年的兩倍。這一結果得益於我們各個管道的有意義貢獻，其中包括來自我們 16 個發起平台的超過 950 億美元、來自傳統核心信貸的超過 900 億美元、來自高級企業解決方案的約 250 億美元以及來自各種股權投入的 100 億美元。

Across all of our debt origination activity, we sourced assets at approximately 350 to 400 basis points above treasuries, on average. Importantly, with spreads near multiyear tights across many segments of the credit market, our direct origination advantage remained durable, allowing us to capture 200 to 250 basis points of excess spread relative to comparatively rated corporates on the majority of what we originate.

在我們所有的債務發放活動中，我們獲得的資產平均比國債高出約 350 至 400 個基點。重要的是，由於信貸市場許多部分的利差接近多年期利差，我們的直接發起優勢依然持久，使我們能夠在大多數發起交易中獲取相對於同等評級的公司 200 至 250 個基點的超額利差。

And I'll just comment, over the course of the last year, we observed the market tightened approximately 25 to 30 basis points but our debt originations saw similar, even less compression depending on the specific asset class, not more, enabling us to capture the attractive excess spread origination which is the key to our success.

我只想評論一下，在過去的一年裡，我們觀察到市場收緊了大約 25 到 30 個基點，但我們的債務發起也出現了類似的情況，根據具體資產類別，甚至壓縮程度更低，而不是更高，這使我們能夠捕捉到具有吸引力的超額利差發起，這是我們成功的關鍵。

Entering 2025, we're focused on continuing our scale of origination capabilities and make progress toward our targets. This year, there will be really three key areas where we originate and focus in define success for the year. One is continuing scaling of ATLAS SP, our affiliated warehouse financing platform, which drove approximately half of our platform origination last year and represents a significant part of our growth plan.

進入2025年，我們專注於繼續擴大我們的發起能力並朝著我們的目標前進。今年，我們將從三個關鍵領域出發，並專注於哪些領域是今年的成功關鍵。一是繼續擴大我們的附屬倉庫融資平台 ATLAS SP 的規模，該平台推動了去年我們平台發起的約一半，是我們成長計畫的重要組成部分。

The second pillar is lender finance. Lender finance is a large opportunity that we expect to grow rapidly across multiple areas of our credit franchise. One area we're particularly focused is on the ability to lend against private credit collateral in all channels where investors reside today.

第二支柱是貸款人融資。貸款融資是一個巨大的機會，我們預計它將在我們的信貸特許經營的多個領域迅速成長。我們特別關注的一個領域是透過投資者目前所在的所有管道以私人信貸抵押品進行貸款的能力。

The third is our combined direct lending. This encompasses our affiliated mid-cap financial lending platform, which originated more than $20 billion of volume last year as well as our high-grade corporate solutions and our large cap direct lending, which we continue to expand client coverage with an integrated tool box that is unmatched in the marketplace.

第三是我們的綜合直接貸款。這包括我們附屬的中型金融借貸平台，該平台去年的貸款額超過 200 億美元，以及我們的高級企業解決方案和大型直接貸款，我們將繼續透過市場上無與倫比的整合工具箱擴大客戶覆蓋範圍。

So formation is the lifeblood of our continued growth. Last year, we generated $152 billion in total inflows across the platform comprised of $81 billion from our asset management business and as Marc mentioned, $71 billion from Athene.

因此，形成是我們持續成長的生命線。去年，我們整個平台的總流入量為 1520 億美元，其中 810 億美元來自我們的資產管理業務，正如馬克所提到的，710 億美元來自 Athene。

In short, both sides of the house produced. Within asset management, our institutional and wealth channels each had strong results. Within institutional, '24 was a record year for a nonflagship era -- year, and Global Wealth is continuing to gain momentum with greater inflows over successive years and successive quarters.

總之，房子兩邊都生產了。在資產管理方面，我們的機構和財富管道均取得了強勁的業績。在機構投資者方面，2024 年是非旗艦時代創紀錄的一年，全球財富管理繼續保持成長勢頭，連續幾年和連續幾季的流入量不斷增加。

Double clicking on that fundraising for the quarter, credit-oriented strategies drove the activity, accounting for nearly 80% of third-party capital raised with inflows coming from more than 100 discrete funds or accounts. Some of the more significant contributors included our IG investment-grade Total Return Fund, the second vintage of Accord+, several third-party SMAs, which now insurance SMAs, which now totaled 24 as well as credit-focused wealth products we manage, including ADS, ABC and others.

雙擊該季度的籌款活動，信貸導向策略推動了活動，佔籌集的第三方資本的近 80%，流入來自 100 多個獨立基金或帳戶。其中較重要的貢獻者包括我們的 IG 投資等級總回報基金、第二版 Accord+、幾個第三方 SMA（現為保險 SMA，總數達 24 項），以及我們管理的以信貸為重點的財富產品，包括 ADS、ABC 等。

For Athene, it's worth noting that the business was able to exceed its full year growth target by adeptly pivoting across its four channels. This is despite having to navigate a unique set of circumstances particularly within the pension business where Athene provides value-added solutions for corporate clients and serves more than 0.5 million pensioners. We continue to be focused on diligently building Athene, managing its growth on a year-to-year rather than quarter-over-quarter basis to drive consistent and durable growth earnings over time.

對 Athene 來說，值得注意的是，透過巧妙地調整四個管道，該公司得以超越其全年成長目標。儘管必須應對一系列特殊情況，特別是在退休金業務中，Athene 為企業客戶提供增值解決方案，並為超過 50 萬名退休金領取者提供服務。我們將繼續致力於精心打造 Athene，以逐年而非逐季度的方式管理其成長，以推動其長期持續、持久的成長收益。

The business remains extremely well positioned, and we expect we'll be a leader in new product creation to serve the needs of this massive retirement population. Relative to '24 levels, we expect to drive greater inflows across both asset management and retirement services in 2025 as we expect to execute against our five year plan. The average annual capital formation targets we communicated at Investor Day indicate a natural upward progression as we continue to penetrate the vast market opportunities that Marc discussed.

這項業務仍然處於非常有利的地位，我們期望我們將成為新產品創造的領導者，滿足龐大退休人口的需求。相對於'24'水平，我們預計到2025年資產管理和退休服務領域的資金流入將會增加，因為我們有望執行我們的五年計劃。隨著我們繼續滲透馬克所討論的巨大市場機會，我們在投資者日傳達的平均年度資本形成目標表明，這一目標將自然上升。

With that, I'll turn it over to Martin to address our financial results in more detail.

接下來，我將把主題交給馬丁更詳細地介紹我們的財務結果。

Thanks, Jim, and good morning, everyone. As you can see in our results, and as you've heard from both Marc and Jim this morning, 2024 is a very successful year of growth and execution for Apollo, particularly given the shifting interest rate and more subdued monetization backdrop. We delivered on the financial targets we communicated, and we set a very strong foundation for the five year plan we presented at the Investor Day.

謝謝，吉姆，大家早安。正如您在我們的結果中所看到的，正如您今天早上從馬克和吉姆那裡聽到的，2024 年是阿波羅增長和執行非常成功的一年，特別是考慮到利率的變化和更為低迷的貨幣化背景。我們實現了所傳達的財務目標，並為投資者日上提出的五年計劃奠定了堅實的基礎。

I'll quickly walk through our financial performance, and highlight some key drivers that we believe will position us for a successful 2025. In the Asset Management business, we posted a new quarterly record for fee-related earnings, generating $2.1 billion of FRE for the full year or 17% growth. Two distinct areas of strength in our revenue picture in 2024 were management fees from our credit business, which increased almost 20% within that, growth in third-party credit management fees exceeding Athene and Athora as well as capital solutions fees, which increased almost 25% year-over-year, as Marc highlighted.

我將快速介紹我們的財務業績，並強調一些我們認為有助於我們在 2025 年取得成功的關鍵驅動因素。在資產管理業務方面，我們創下了費用相關收益的季度新高，全年費用相關收益為 21 億美元，成長 17%。正如馬克所強調的，我們 2024 年收入前景中的兩個明顯優勢領域是來自信貸業務的管理費，其中增長了近 20%，第三方信貸管理費的增長超過了 Athene 和 Athora，以及資本解決方案費，同比增長了近 25%。

Our capabilities within ACS continued to expand alongside our overall origination and deployment activity. Fee-related revenue grew by 15% and expenses by 14%, resulting in another year of FRE margin expansion. Very importantly, we're reaping the reward from past investments, which are now generating revenue growth across the platform, while at the same time, prioritizing current investments to build strategically important areas of our multiyear plan. A few of the most important initiatives that will be critical to driving success in the year ahead and beyond include global wealth, third-party credit and PE adjacent businesses within equity.

隨著我們整體發起和部署活動的開展，ACS 內部的能力也不斷擴大。費用相關收入成長了 15%，支出成長了 14%，導致 FRE 利潤率又一年擴大。非常重要的是，我們正在收穫過去投資的回報，這些投資現在正在為整個平台帶來收入成長，同時，我們優先考慮當前投資，以建立我們多年計劃中具有戰略意義的領域。一些對於推動未來一年及以後的成功至關重要的最重要的舉措包括全球財富、第三方信貸和股權中的 PE 相關業務。

In Global Wealth, we see significant momentum across the business with meaningful contributions likely to come from the semiliquid products fleet, comprising 11 discrete products, including six currently sized at approximately $1 billion or more and continuing to scale.

在全球財富領域，我們看到整個業務呈現出顯著的發展勢頭，其中半流動性產品組合可能會帶來有意義的貢獻，該組合由 11 種離散產品組成，其中 6 種目前規模約為 10 億美元或更多，並且還在繼續擴大規模。

In third-party credit, we expect asset-backed finance, key origination platforms and outlets as well as direct lending strategies to be impactful. And in terms of PE adjacent businesses, we expect infrastructure, clean transition, secondaries and hybrid value to have increasing contributions.

在第三方信貸方面，我們預期資產支援融資、關鍵發起平台和分行以及直接貸款策略將發揮重要作用。在 PE 相關業務方面，我們預計基礎設施、清潔轉型、二級市場和混合價值的貢獻將會增加。

Taken together and combined with the growing ACS franchise, we expect to raise, deploy and indicate significant amounts of capital that will drive attractive fee-related earnings growth. In 2025, we expect fee-related earnings growth to approximate 15% to 20%, consistent with non-flagship PEs and reflecting capacity to continue making significant investments in the growth priorities we have articulated.

綜合起來，結合不斷增長的 ACS 特許經營權，我們預計將籌集、部署和表明大量資本，從而推動具有吸引力的與費用相關的收益成長。到 2025 年，我們預計費用相關收益成長率將達到約 15% 至 20%，與非旗艦 PE 保持一致，並反映出我們有能力繼續對我們所闡明的成長重點進行大量投資。

As we discussed at Investor Day, we continue to expect fee-related earnings will grow by approximately 20% on average over the next five years, and everything we're seeing in the business is tracking well to deliver on that goal.

正如我們在投資者日所討論的那樣，我們繼續預計未來五年費用相關收益將平均成長約 20％，而且我們看到的業務一切都在順利實現這一目標。

Moving to Retirement Services. We posted a strong quarter of spread-related earnings, generating $3.2 million of SRE for the full year, consistent again with our comments at Investor Day. What are returns from Athene's alts portfolio were in line with our inaugural prerelease issued on January 7. Athene's net invested assets grew 14% in 2024 driven by record organic growth.

轉向退休服務。我們公佈了本季強勁的利差相關收益，全年創造了 320 萬美元的 SRE，這與我們在投資者日的評論再次一致。Athene 的替代投資組合的回報率與我們 1 月 7 日發布的首次預發布回報率一致。在創紀錄的有機成長的推動下，Athene 的淨投資資產在 2024 年成長了 14%。

Net spread ex notables of 137 basis points declined moderately year-over-year due to several factors, principally the interest rate transition and our proactive steps to mitigate the impact of lock-in spread as well as a tighter spread backdrop and a slightly lower average allocation to alts.

除主要債券外的淨利差為 137 個基點，年比略有下降，原因有幾個，主要是利率轉型、我們採取主動措施減輕鎖定利差的影響、利差收緊的背景和略低的替代債券平均配置。

Importantly, the underwritten spread on new business volumes exceeded 140 basis points during the year, supporting the current net spread of the business before considering the carry-through impact from interest rate cuts that have already taken place.

重要的是，年內新業務的承保利差超過了140個基點，在考慮已經發生的降息帶來的後續影響之前，支撐了當前的業務淨利差。

As we discussed at Investor Day, we expect to grow spread-related earnings by approximately 10% on average over the next five years, excluding the impact of interest rate transitions. We expect interest rate-related headwinds in 2025 to be largely consistent with our Investor Day comments, which embedded an assumption of six total equivalent rate cuts from last September through the end of 2025.

正如我們在投資者日所討論的那樣，我們預計未來五年利差相關收益將平均成長約 10%（不包括利率轉換的影響）。我們預計 2025 年與利率相關的不利因素將與我們的投資者日評論基本一致，該評論假設從去年 9 月到 2025 年底總共會有六次等效降息。

Assuming an alts return of 11%, we expect SRE to approximately $2.5 billion in 2025 as we previously communicated. Key drivers of our SRE growth in the year ahead will be Athene's net organic growth, the net spread on that growth, the trajectory of interest rates and the returns on Athene's alts portfolio.

假設 alts 回報率為 11%，我們預計 2025 年 SRE 將達到約 25 億美元，正如我們之前所說的。未來一年我們 SRE 成長的關鍵驅動力將是 Athene 的淨有機成長、該成長的淨利差、利率走勢以及 Athene 的另類投資組合的回報。

Turning lastly to principal investing income, PII benefited from greater realized performance fees in 2024 as monetization activity improved from 2023 levels. In the fourth quarter specifically, PII benefited from the seasonal carry crystallization of certain credit strategies as well as a lower compensation ratio.

最後談到本金投資收入，由於貨幣化活動較 2023 年的水準有所改善，PII 受益於 2024 年更高的實現績效費。具體來說，在第四季度，PII 受益於某些信貸策略的季節性套利結晶以及較低的補償比率。

Our net accrued performance fee balance at December 31 was $1.7 billion or $2.75 per share and continues to be supported by strong investment performance. We've generated compelling double-digit gross returns across a variety of growth strategies in 2025 as well as hybrid value -- sorry, in 2024 as well as 35% for PE fund.

截至 12 月 31 日，我們的淨應計績效費餘額為 17 億美元，即每股 2.75 美元，並繼續受到強勁投資績效的支持。我們在 2025 年透過多種成長策略以及混合價值（抱歉，是在 2024 年）實現了令人信服的兩位數總回報，而 PE 基金的回報率為 35%。

And finally, our operating tax rate in the fourth quarter benefited from large deductions in quarter related to employee stock compensation due to a higher share price. Going forward, we continue to expect our effective tax rate to remain approximately 20% over the long term, subject to usual quarterly variability.

最後，由於股價上漲，我們第四季的營業稅率受益於與員工股票薪酬相關的季度大額扣除。展望未來，我們繼續預計我們的有效稅率在長期內將保持在 20% 左右，但會受到通常的季度變化影響。

And with that, I'll turn the call back to the operator for Q&A.

說完這些，我將把電話轉回給接線生進行問答。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Bill Katz, TD Cowen.

比爾·卡茨（Bill Katz），TD Cowen 公司。

Marc, you mentioned sort of three or four major opportunities looking ahead. I think I'm most intrigued on the retirement at the margin. I think your comments were like you think you can make progress within the retirement accounts, even if there's no improved legislation. I was wondering if you can maybe expand on a, how you do that? And then b, from your conversations you might be having with folks down in D.C., what is the appetite to enhance the fiduciary umbrella to allow a more proactive opportunity into target date funds?

馬克，您提到了未來三到四個主要的機會。我認為我最感興趣的是邊際退休。我認為您的評論就像您認為即使沒有改進的立法，您也可以在退休帳戶內取得進展。我想知道您是否可以詳細說明一下您是如何做到的？然後 b，從您與華盛頓特區的人們進行的對話來看，您有何意願加強受託人保護，以便為目標日期基金提供更積極主動的機會？

I'll do my best, Bill, but a real answer would probably absorb the rest of the call and question queue. So let's start with what people are investing in. People suggest there's $12 trillion to $13 trillion in 401(k) that will be there on average for 50 years. These people are, for the most part, invested in daily liquid stock index funds for 50 years. Why? Well, that was history. That's just what people did.

我會盡力，比爾，但真正的答案可能會吸收其餘的電話和問題隊列。那麼就讓我們先從人們投資什麼開始吧。人們認為 401(k) 計畫中的資金將平均存續 50 年，達到 12 兆到 13 兆美元。這些人大部分在 50 年的時間裡投資了每日流動的股票指數基金。為什麼？嗯，這就是歷史了。人們就是這麼做的。

And what's happened to their investment is it's done well. I won't say that, but they are now -- 10 stocks are now 40% of the S&P and their returns are levered to NVIDIA. We basically have levered the retirement system of the country to NVIDIA. And some quarters, that's good and some quarters, that's not so good. But for a 50-year investment, it doesn't seem to be all that great.

他們的投資取得了良好的效果。我不會這麼說，但現在——10 隻股票現在佔標準普爾指數的 40%，它們的回報與 NVIDIA 掛鉤。我們基本上把國家的退休制度借給了 NVIDIA。有些方面，這是好的，但有些方面，就沒那麼好了。但對於一項 50 年的投資來說，這似乎不是那麼好。

So the next innovation was the notion of a target date fund. A target date fund takes a massive individuals, not an individual and allocate them depending on their age cohort between daily liquid stock index funds and daily liquid bond funds. There's not really much innovation. People are still getting beta, although the beta is now more appropriate for their age cohort. Everywhere in the world where privates, and I'm going to use the word private but not alternative, has been added to retirement solutions. The results are not just a little bit better, they're 50% to 100% better. We are on that journey.

因此，下一個創新是目標日期基金的概念。目標日期基金吸引大量個人，而不是單一人，並根據他們的年齡段，在每日流動性股票指數基金和每日流動性債券基金之間進行分配。確實沒有太多創新。人們仍在接受測試，儘管測試版現在更適合他們的年齡層。世界上所有地方都已將私人退休金（我將使用私人退休金這個詞，但不使用替代退休金）納入退休解決方案。結果不只是好一點點，而是好了 50% 到 100%。我們正在進行這段旅程。

Plan sponsors understand this. Investment managers understand this. What we have is a litigation culture that has focused historically on fees that has prevented widespread allocation to private market solutions and a record-keeping infrastructure that has been slow to adapt. We are starting to see changes in that around the edge, and as you would expect, we're starting to see it in products, semi-liquid equity, semiliquid credit, particularly investment-grade credit and guaranteed income solutions.

計劃發起人了解這一點。投資經理了解這一點。我們所擁有的是一種歷史上註重費用的訴訟文化，這種文化阻礙了對私人市場解決方案的廣泛分配，而且記錄保存基礎設施的適應速度也很慢。我們開始看到邊緣方面的變化，正如您所預料的，我們開始在產品、半流動性股票、半流動性信貸，特別是投資級信貸和有保障的收入解決方案中看到這種變化。

I believe we are at the very, very beginning, approaching a $12 trillion market admittedly in the current environment with some handcuffs on. As to regulatory reform, I would not be naive enough to expect that I could predict what's going to happen, but I will make some observations. And some of it is really good for our business and some of it is just okay.

我認為，我們才剛開始，正在朝著 12 兆美元的市場邁進，當然，在當前環境下，我們還面臨一些限制。至於監管改革，我不會天真地期望能夠預測會發生什麼，但我會提出一些觀察。有些對我們的業務確實有益，有些只是一般。

So a number of you have asked previously about regulatory more generally. In the bank sector, it is clear that bank regulation is appropriately getting better. Banks will be stronger competitors in what we call the rep lending or a small portion of our private credit business. This is appropriate. This is logical. I don't think it really matters to us per se. We continue to see robust appetite for partnerships with banks, which are now north of 12 because they are still commercial entities at the end of the day that are structurally borrowing short and don't like lending long.

你們當中有許多人之前曾詢問過更普遍的監管問題。在銀行領域，銀行監理明顯正在相應完善。在我們所謂的代表貸款或一小部分私人信貸業務中，銀行將成為更強大的競爭對手。這是適當的。這是合乎邏輯的。我認為這本身對我們來說並不重要。我們繼續看到對與銀行合作的強烈需求，現在銀行數量已超過 12 家，因為它們歸根結底仍然是商業實體，結構上借入的是短期資金，不喜歡長期貸款。

We can work with the bank from a capital alleviation point of view. We can work with them from a duration alleviation point of view or simply complementing each other's origination. As it relates to the question you asked, I think we're going to see increased access, increased fairness and increased recognition that the financial markets have changed. I'm not going to be so bold to predict this, but it is not rule making. It is advice. Simply being told as a trustee that your job is to produce the best net returns, not the lowest fee, I believe would go a very, very long way to solving this in a way that would be overwhelmingly positive for our business.

我們可以從減免資本的角度與銀行合作。我們可以從縮短工期的角度或簡單地補充彼此的起源的角度與他們合作。至於您提出的問題，我認為我們將看到更多的准入、更多的公平以及對金融市場已經發生變化的更多認可。我不會如此大膽地預測這一點，但這並不是規則的製定。這是建議。作為受託人，只要告訴你你的工作是創造最好的淨回報，而不是最低的費用，我相信這將在很大程度上解決這個問題，並且對我們的業務產生極其積極的影響。

I know that I'm not the only one in the industry who's focused on this. The industry in mass is focused on this. And in fact, we're seeing traditional asset managers, and I've mentioned previously, BlackRock understand that privates are going to be part of the solution set. The more this is evolves, the better it is for all of us who are in the business of producing private assets.

我知道我並不是這個行業中唯一關注這個問題的人。整個產業都集中關注這一點。事實上，我們看到傳統的資產管理者，我之前提到過，貝萊德明白私人資產管理者將成為解決方案的一部分。這種發展越深入，對我們所有從事私有資產生產的人來說就越有利。

The third place we're going to see substantial change is in the -- some of the regulatory apparatus around retirement and particularly around insurance. If you work in a Department of Treasury, call it the FIO, you probably are looking over your shoulder. We have allowed the European system to crowd out the US system because we have not protected it. We have not been playing Team America and Capital Markets and America First also applies to its capital formation tools.

第三個方面我們將看到實質的變化，即一些與退休，特別是保險相關的監管機構。如果您在財政部工作，稱之為 FIO，您可能正在小心謹慎。由於我們沒有保護歐洲體系，我們讓歐洲體系擠佔了美國體系。我們並沒有扮演美國隊和資本市場的角色，而美國優先也適用於其資本形成工具。

Further, we have been asleep at the regulatory switch and $150 billion of reserves have moved offshore to the Cayman Islands with a fraction of the capital of the US or the Bermuda system, putting the system at risk. I believe the FIO will be under tremendous pressure. I also believe the state-based regulatory system, which we believe in and are a big support of -- they have a choice of evolving to address this issue in Cayman or risk someone stepping in and serving their authority because it is a hot button issue around our industry. It is a hot button issue in D.C, and it is just common sense. But in general, incredibly enthusiastic about what's happening on the regulatory front.

此外，我們對監管的轉變視而不見，1,500 億美元的儲備金已轉移到開曼群島，而這些儲備金僅占美國或百慕達體系資本的一小部分，這使整個體系面臨風險。我相信FIO將面臨巨大的壓力。我還相信，我們所信任並大力支持的基於州的監管體系——他們可以選擇不斷發展以解決開曼群島的這一問題，或者冒險讓某人介入並維護他們的權威，因為這是我們行業的一個熱點問題。這是華盛頓的熱門話題，也是常識。但總體而言，人們對監管方面的進展非常熱情。

Glenn Schorr, Evercore ISI.

格倫·肖爾（Glenn Schorr），Evercore ISI。

Marc, I wonder if you could peel back the onion just a little bit. You touched on it, but -- so I'm a believer in the way you described the rethink of and convergence of public and private. But for asset-backed specifically and private investment grade, I think the vision is there, the proof there with some of your partnerships, but some of the banks pushed back and say, we already have excess capital, regulations coming down why will more of this transition over? It made sense with direct lending on noninvestment grade and the capital charges don't the banks want to hang on to this business. So I just figured I'd get you to pontificate a little bit on that.

馬克，我想知道你能否把洋蔥剝一點。您提到了這一點，但是——所以我相信您所描述的對公共和私人之間的重新思考和融合的方式。但對於資產支持和私人投資等級債券來說，我認為願景是存在的，一些合作夥伴關係也提供了證據，但一些銀行反駁說，我們已經有過剩資本，監管力度正在減弱，為什麼還會有更多這樣的轉變呢？對於非投資等級直接貸款來說，這很合理，而且資本要求較高，因此銀行不願意繼續保留這項業務。因此我只是想讓你就此發表一些看法。

So this is consistent with our theme. Not every bank is the same. Let's start by saying we have a multi-secure banking system in the US with a few banks at the very top, lots of small community banks and then a deal. I think your comments are mostly directed at the top end of this, and I don't disagree with that. Some of the banks at the top end will choose in a reduced capital strain or better regulatory talent to keep more of their assets.

所以這和我們的主題是一致的。並非所有銀行都是一樣的。首先，我們要說的是，美國有一個多重安全銀行系統，其中最頂端的是幾家銀行，還有許多小型社區銀行，然後是一筆交易。我認為您的評論主要針對的是這個問題的高端，我並不反對這一點。一些高端銀行會選擇減少資本壓力或提高監管能力以保留更多資產。

I don't know why -- I actually think the place they will keep assets is where you don't, I think they'll keep them in direct lending because it's a really easy business to run. These clients are very fee generative. They're very relationship oriented, and it's a pretty simple business. That is where the vast majority of private credit franchises around the world have been built. Do I think there'll be competition? I do.

我不知道為什麼——我實際上認為他們保存資產的地方是你不會保存的地方，我認為他們會將資產保存在直接貸款中，因為這是一個非常容易經營的業務。這些客戶的費用產生率非常高。他們非常注重關係，而且這是一個相當簡單的業務。全世界絕大多數私人信貸特許經營權都建立在那裡。我認為會有競爭嗎？我願意。

And typically, in every cycle, we see people go to excess, which is why we run EDS and our vehicles the way we insist on running them. I don't think it fundamentally changes the nature of the banking business, though. The nature of a bank is to borrow short and lends long. There is a inherit instability to taking long-dated risk inside a short-funded institution. Think about what the world is building. Next-generation energy, next-generation power and data, next-generation infrastructure, energy transition. All of these things are long dated and complex. They are not normally in any market funded on bank balance sheet.

通常情況下，在每個週期中，我們都會看到人們過度消費，這就是我們堅持以這種方式運行 EDS 和車輛的原因。但我並不認為它從根本上改變銀行業務的性質。銀行的本質就是藉短貸長。在資金短缺的機構內部承擔長期風險存在著固有的不穩定性。想想世界正在建設什麼。下一代能源、下一代電力和數據、下一代基礎設施、能源轉型。所有這些事情都是長期而複雜的。它們通常不存在於任何由銀行資產負債表資助的市場中。

I think what people don't really understand is a lot of both competition or substitution is a replacement of the normal regular way, 10-year IG market. IG want simple, not complex. They don't want structure. They don't want, they don't want, they don't want. Every time we have landed a large fixed income replacement mandate is because we are offering the borrower something that is credit neutral or credit better to us, but more flexibility in some way, that is not available to the public market.

我認為人們真正不理解的是，許多競爭或替代方案都是對正常常規方式（10 年期 IG 市場）的替代。IG 追求簡單，不追求複雜。他們不要結構。他們不要，他們不要，他們不要。每次我們獲得大額固定收益替代授權，都是因為我們向借款人提供一些對我們來說信用中性或信用更好的產品，但在某種程度上具有更大的靈活性，而這是公開市場無法提供的。

And so again, I come back to this notice of the bank partnership. Some banks will simply say thanks. We'll do it ourselves. Some banks will actually realize what I think most have that we are symbiotic with them and that we do not want their clients. All we want is the asset, the bank typically does not want the asset. And if they want a piece of the asset, it's available to them. So if they can grow without capital, that's ROE enhancing.

因此，我再次回顧銀行合作關係的通知。有些銀行只會簡單地表示感謝。我們自己做。我認為，有些銀行實際上會意識到，我們與它們是共生關係，而且我們不想要他們的客戶。我們想要的是資產，銀行通常不想要資產。如果他們想要一部分資產，他們就可以得到。因此，如果他們能夠在沒有資本的情況下實現成長，那麼 ROE 就會提高。

Some banks will actually fund an asset with us, and they will take the short end of the asset, and we will take the long end of the asset. Some banks will fund with us, and they will take the AAA tranche back, and we will take the AAs and everything else. The variety of partnerships with the banking industry is limited only by the problem that the banks are trying to solve.

一些銀行實際上會向我們提供資產融資，他們持有資產的短期部分，而我們持有資產的長期部分。一些銀行將與我們一起提供資金，他們將收回 AAA 部分，而我們將收回 AA 和所有其他部分。與銀行業的合作關係的多樣性僅受限於銀行試圖解決的問題。

And then the whole opportunity is the notion of regional bank and regional bank consolidation. If you're a regional bank today, you are paying more for your capital, your inventory, your money than a money center bank. Your financial, regulatory and technology costs are being spread over a much smaller base. You have -- you don't have the capital markets revenue to give you the fee streams that the big banks have. And you don't really know whether deposits are sticky because like every prices where SVB and FRB were taken out, we don't really know whether that was bad management or bad management coupled with 70% online banking.

整個機會就是區域銀行和區域銀行合併的概念。如果你今天是一家地區性銀行，那麼你為資本、庫存和資金支付的費用要比貨幣中心銀行更高。您的財務、監管和技術成本分攤到較小的基數上。你沒有資本市場收入來給你提供大銀行那樣的費用流。而你真的不知道存款是否具有黏性，因為就像每個從矽谷銀行和聯準會取出的價格一樣，我們真的不知道那是由於管理不善還是管理不善加上 70% 的網路銀行。

And I think we're going to see in this administration, in particular, tremendous consolidation of regional banking. We, Apollo, just speaking for Apollo, we're a small asset manager. Our goal is not to be one of the four money center banks. We don't even think that way. Our job is to deliver our business plan, which is roughly doubling the size of the business, five years from now, when we double the size of our business, we will be a small asset manager. There is plenty for us to do in the context of our business and wins.

我認為我們將會看到本屆政府將大力推動地區銀行業的整合。我們，阿波羅，只是代表阿波羅發言，我們是一家小型資產管理公司。我們的目標不是成為四大貨幣中心銀行之一。我們甚至不這麼認為。我們的工作是實現我們的商業計劃，也就是將業務規模大致擴大一倍，五年後，當我們的業務規模擴大一倍時，我們將成為一家小型資產管理公司。在我們的業務和勝利方面，我們有很多事情要做。

Patrick Davitt, Autonomous Research.

戴維特 (Patrick Davitt)，自主研究。

There's been some chatter of some potentially large insurance assets coming up for sale. So could you update us on Athene's willingness and ability to take on large and or more complicated M&A transactions?

有傳言稱一些潛在的大型保險資產即將被出售。那麼您能否向我們介紹 Athene 承擔大型或更複雜的併購交易的意願和能力？

Thanks, Patrick. So I've heard the same rumors. I won't repeat them, but I heard the same numbers. But recall that Apollo Global as an entity actually has 3-plus pockets by which we acquire retirement or insurance assets. One is through our wholly owned subsidiary, Athene. Athene primarily focuses on US spread-based products, along with UK and Japan.

謝謝，派崔克。所以我聽到了同樣的謠言。我不會重複，但我聽到了同樣的數字。但回想一下，阿波羅全球作為一個實體實際上有 3 個以上的資金來源，我們可以透過這些資金來獲得退休金或保險資產。一種是透過我們的全資子公司Athene。Athene 主要專注於美國的價差產品，以及英國和日本的產品。

And the second that we don't spend much time talking about it is our interest in Athora. Athora is our scaled European vehicle who primarily works in a Solvency II jurisdiction, in Solvency II jurisdictions around the world. And the third is our interest in Venerable, which we share with some partners who primarily buys variable annuities. When you add the three capabilities together, I believe that we are well positioned to do anything that we want to do that makes sense.

第二，我們沒有花太多時間談論我們對 Athora 的興趣。Athora 是我們規模化的歐洲公司，主要在償付能力標準 II 管轄區以及世界各地的償付能力標準 II 管轄區開展業務。第三是我們對 Venerable 的權益，我們與一些主要購買變額年金的合作夥伴分享這些權益。當這三種能力結合在一起時，我相信我們能做任何我們想做的、有意義的事情。

When I say it makes sense, we have the ability to issue $70 plus billion organically each year with protected surrender charges and market value adjustments at a pace and time that we want at a reasonable cost of funds. For us, growth is not about just growing the assets. This is a fool's errand.

當我說這是合理的時候，我們有能力每年以合理的資金成本按照我們想要的速度和時間，透過有保障的退保費用和市場價值調整，有機發行超過 700 億美元的債券。對我們來說，成長不僅僅是資產的成長。這是愚蠢的行為。

Growth for us is about earnings spread. If someone is willing to step in and take low spread for the purpose of juicing for a short period of time, their asset management. That to me is a very short-term trade and one we should all be concerned about. But as it relates to capacity, we have plenty of capital, including committed capital in our ADIP vehicle for Athene in uncalled equity at Athora, and anything that we want to do, we are capable of doing, but it all comes down to economics.

對我們來說，成長就是獲利差距。如果有人願意介入並接受低利差以在短時間內獲利，那麼他們的資產管理就會受到影響。對我來說，這是一種短期交易，我們都應該對此感到擔憂。但就產能而言，我們擁有充足的資本，包括我們為 Athene 注入的 ADIP 工具中的承諾資本以及 Athora 的未贖回股權，我們想做的任何事情，我們都有能力做到，但一切都歸結為經濟問題。

Alex Blostein, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的亞歷克斯‧布洛斯坦 (Alex Blostein)。

I was hoping to spend a couple of minutes on your expectations for origination into 2025. The way you framed it, I thought was really helpful between Atlas lender finance and direct lending. I guess, how do you expect the mix of these three buckets to evolve over the course of next year? And as part of that, I think you mentioned some of the inorganic opportunities. Could you spend a minute on what could look most interesting from an acquisition perspective? And would that be in Apollo deal? Or should we think of that similar to other platforms kind of residing within AAA?

我希望花幾分鐘時間談談您對 2025 年起源的期望。我認為，您所闡述的方式對 Atlas 貸款人融資和直接貸款之間確實很有幫助。我想，您預計明年這三個桶的組合會如何發展？作為其中的一部分，我認為您提到了一些無機機會。您能否花一點時間從收購的角度討論一下什麼是最有趣的？這會包含在阿波羅交易中嗎？或者我們應該認為它與 AAA 內的其他平台類似嗎？

So I'll just say yes, and then I'll hand it to Jim.

所以我就說是的，然後我就把它交給吉姆。

Alex, I would say that as we've identified, ATLAS when we thought about it three, four years ago, it was really a US business. And geographically, with places like Europe, Japan and Australia, in particular, I would expect that to grow.

亞歷克斯，我想說，正如我們所確定的，當我們三、四年前考慮 ATLAS 時，它實際上是一家美國企業。從地理位置來看，特別是歐洲、日本和澳洲等地，我預計這一數字將會成長。

So I don't think when you think about the large buckets of the platforms and traditional credit at $85 billion, $90 billion a piece. I don't think there is a variety of new dramatic moves out of those. I think you'll see geographic expansion. I do believe what you're seeing go on right now with the European banks, the logical moves that Marc talked about earlier with really focusing on the high-grade capital solutions, and I know there was a question earlier and Marc addressed it, but there's just even the most well-capitalized businesses, the amount of capital that they need the public IG market is not going to be the solution.

因此，我認為，當您考慮平台和傳統信貸的龐大規模時，每個平台的規模不會達到 850 億美元、900 億美元。我不認為其中存在各種新的戲劇性舉措。我認為你會看到地理擴展。我確實相信，就目前歐洲銀行的情況來看，馬克之前提到的合理舉措確實側重於高級資本解決方案，我知道之前有一個問題，馬克也回答過了，但即使是資本最雄厚的企業，它們在公共投資集團市場所需的資本量也不是解決方案。

So we certainly believe high-grade capital solutions, the transactions we did for Sony and AB InBev and Intel and others, that will expand. The last thing I would say is massive focus on hybrid origination here across the platform. Obviously, we made some leadership evolutionary change over the last month. We brought together a lot of resources in that hybrid area, which is really the area between debt and equity that is really when you think about the overhang from PE sponsors, when you think about the other challenges right now in monetization of the IPO market, certainly, I think you're going to see a much, much greater volume of opportunity in the US and in Europe and parts of Asia with regard to places like Australia and Singapore and Hong Kong in that hybrid area.

因此，我們確實相信高級資本解決方案，以及我們為索尼、百威英博、英特爾等公司進行的交易將會擴大。我最後要說的是，整個平台都非常關注混合起源。顯然，我們在上個月進行了一些領導變革。我們在這個混合領域整合了大量的資源，這個領域實際上是債務和股權之間的領域，當你考慮到私募股權發起人的壓力，當你考慮到目前 IPO 市場貨幣化面臨的其他挑戰時，當然，我認為你會看到美國、歐洲和亞洲部分地區（例如澳大利亞、新加坡和香港）在這個混合領域中存在著更多的機會。

So I think it's really leaning into what we've done in the past. We're very, very comfortable with the breadth of what we have. And I do think Marc appropriately addressed it there's a narrative out there that we don't partner with the banks or there's a battle for the banks. The reality is somewhere dramatically different. The partnership dialogue with what's going on with Standard Charter with Apterra, across the board, there are numerous partnerships that are in the drawing room or about to be announced. So I think that's really where the expansion will be in terms of bank partnerships.

所以我認為這確實依賴於我們過去所做的事情。我們對所擁有的廣度感到非常滿意。我確實認為馬克恰當地解決了這個問題，有一種說法是，我們不會與銀行合作，或者說，銀行之間會發生爭鬥。但現實情況卻截然不同。關於渣打銀行與 Apterra 之間的合作對話，總體而言，有許多合作夥伴關係正在醞釀中或即將宣布。所以我認為這才是銀行合作真正擴展的地方。

Ken Worthington, JPMorgan Chase.

摩根大通的肯‧沃辛頓。

So sentiment on rates has moved to higher for longer, I guess what do you think about the shift in sentiment in the context of your inflation outlook and the Trump administration policy changes? And Apollo has been paring for the lower interest rate environment for a lot of last year. What are your thoughts on the balance sheet positioning as you think about 2025?

因此，利率情緒已長期轉向高位，我想您如何看待在通膨前景和川普政府政策變化的背景下情緒的轉變？去年，阿波羅一直在為較低的利率環境做準備。展望2025年，您對資產負債表定位有何看法？

Jim, why don't you take a shot at?

吉姆，你為何不嘗試？

Yes, Ken. I mean we run a duration match business. We prefer a bit of a higher rate environment, there's that preparation for that. There's not really a prediction of it. Certainly, the actions of the last 90 to 120 days with the new administration is a bit different than we might have expected when we had Investor Day. And so you're right, there is a view of a bit higher for longer, what Torsten has been articulating. But again, when we talked about Investor Day last year, we talked about five or six prospective cuts, four have taken place. But again, I think we think we're appropriately positioned right now where rates are with regard to our floater strategy, which we've been very focused on. But again, I don't think we have a -- we do not embed a strategic or tactical view based on rate for the next three to six months across the broad platform or the broad portfolio of Athene.

是的，肯。我的意思是我們經營的是期限匹配業務。我們更喜歡利率稍微高一點的環境，我們已經為此做好了準備。事實上，對此並沒有真正的預測。當然，新政府在過去 90 到 120 天採取的行動與我們在投資者日時預期的有所不同。所以您說得對，托爾斯滕 (Torsten) 一直強調的觀點是，應該將利率維持在更高的水平並維持更長時間。但是，當我們去年談論投資者日時，我們談到了五到六次可能的降息，其中四次已經實施。但是，我認為我們現在的利率處於適當的位置，這與我們的浮動利率策略有關，我們一直非常關注浮動利率策略。但是，我再說一次，我認為我們沒有——我們沒有在 Athene 的廣泛平台或廣泛投資組合中嵌入基於未來三到六個月利率的戰略或戰術觀點。

I'd say -- I'd just add to that, Ken. Torsten has been on record and all of us have been our record. We of course has kind of been right here, hire for longer has been the house seen, notwithstanding where the market has been. And so as Jim said, we took the appropriate action and we reduced our floater book to a more prudent level just given where rates and spreads are.

我想說——我只是想補充一點，肯。托爾斯滕 (Torsten) 已經有了記錄，我們所有人都有了自己的記錄。我們當然已經在這裡了，不管市場在哪裡，租期已經很久了。正如吉姆所說，我們採取了適當的行動，並根據利率和利差情況將浮動利率帳簿減少到更為審慎的水平。

But if I look at our business, we are generally better off in a higher rate environment. The vast, vast majority of our business is credit-oriented. Credit is simply more attractive in absolute terms in the environment we're in as a solution set because, again, our client base is either solving for absolute levels of income or is amortizing a retirement constant, which is usually a fixed constant. And so as John Zito office says, he scaled our credit business on the back of zero interest rate environment when no one wanted to talk about credit. Where we are right now is just orders of magnitude, better off. So I kind of like where we are. And we'll have regulatory uncertainty. But generally, the trend of regulatory uncertainty, I think it's pretty favorable.

但如果我看一下我們的業務，我們通常在高利率環境下會表現得更好。我們的業務絕大部分都是以信貸為導向的。在我們所處的環境中，信貸作為一套解決方案從絕對意義上來說更具吸引力，因為我們的客戶群要么解決絕對收入水平，要么攤銷退休常數，這通常是一個固定常數。正如約翰·齊托辦公室所說，在沒有人願意談論信貸的情況下，他在零利率環境下擴大了我們的信貸業務。我們現在的狀況只是數量級的改善。所以我有點喜歡我們現在的處境。我們也會面臨監管的不確定性。但總體而言，我認為監管不確定性的趨勢是相當有利的。

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

Steven Chubak, Wolfe Research.

So I wanted to spend some time just unpacking your thoughts on the ACS fee outlook. You still have a very strong momentum in the business. If we look at the multiyear trend ACS fees grew 24% this year, 30% in '23, 39% in '22, and these outcomes were all achieved in a more subdued cap markets backdrop. So as I look at the $1 billion target -- fee target that you guys laid out at Investor Day, it does imply a meaningful deceleration in fee growth within ACS.

所以我想花點時間來解讀一下您對 ACS 費用前景的看法。你們的事業依然保持著非常強勁的發展勢頭。如果我們看一下多年的趨勢，ACS 費用今年成長了 24%，23 年成長了 30%，22 年成長了 39%，而且這些結果都是在資本市場較低迷的背景下實現的。因此，當我看到你們在投資者日提出的 10 億美元費用目標時，它確實意味著 ACS 內部的費用成長將顯著放緩。

I just wanted to better understand, given the expectation for a lot of KPIs, whether it's origination activity, AUM growing much faster, why won't ACS fee growth keep pace? And is it reasonable to suggest that, that target feels conservative given some of the momentum you're seeing?

我只是想更好地理解，考慮到對許多 KPI 的期望，無論是發起活動還是 AUM 增長得更快，為什麼 ACS 費用增長不會跟上步伐？並且，考慮到您所看到的一些勢頭，認為這個目標有些保守是否合理？

Well, I'll start with -- I'm going to let Jim take the bulk of this. I just want to remind everyone on the call, this is a business that is an outgrowth of our strategy rather than the business in and of itself. Going back in history, when we founded Athene. Athene, as you recall, is for it to grow, it needs highly rated fixed income offering excess return over public market benchmarks. And at the time, and still it was unavailable in public markets. So we began to originate.

好吧，我首先要讓吉姆承擔大部分工作。我只是想提醒電話會議中的每個人，這項業務是我們策略的產物，而不是業務本身。回顧歷史，當我們創立雅典娜的時候。正如你所記得的，Athene 為了發展，需要高評級的固定收益，提供超出公開市場基準的超額回報。而當時，它在公開市場上仍然無法買到。因此我們開始起源。

But like any good manager, what we wanted to do was keep 25% of everything and 100% of nothing, and that meant we needed to find homes for the other 75% to be able to continue to originate get what we wanted for our balance sheet and create the proper alignment with clients. That continues to be the case now spread not just over credit, but also over hybrid, as Jim suggested.

但與任何優秀的經理一樣，我們想要做的是保留 25% 的資產，然後保留 100% 的零資產，這意味著我們需要為另外 75% 的資產找到歸宿，以便能夠繼續創造我們想要的資產負債表收益，並與客戶建立適當的聯繫。正如吉姆所說，這種情況現在不僅在信貸領域，而且在混合領域仍然普遍存在。

And I think that this again, to set out to build a syndication business was not the goal to build a business that is strategic to us because it allows us to speak for 100%. It garners new clients for us, and it provides fee revenue is much more on what we've been trying to do. I'll turn it to you, Jim.

我認為，再次強調，著手建立聯合業務並不是我們建立策略性業務的目標，因為它使我們能夠 100% 發言。它為我們贏得了新客戶，並提供了費用收入，這是我們一直在努力做的事情。我會把它轉給你，吉姆。

Yes. I would just emphasize to Marc's point, we didn't create ACS for the ACS in and of itself or the revenue. It really was an outgrowth of providing these large-scale solutions along with an open architecture view of the world. And as Marc talked about, the moves of the Behemoth Blackrock, I mean again, if you really embrace the idea of open architecture across origination and have a view that you want to own a slug of everything, but 100% of nothing, that just broadens out the touch points for thousands of LPs and geographically around the globe in terms of our touch points.

是的。我只想強調馬克的觀點，我們創建 ACS 並不是為了 ACS 本身或收入。它實際上是提供這些大規模解決方案以及開放式世界架構視圖的產物。正如馬克所說的，龐然大物貝萊德的舉動，我的意思是，如果你真的接受跨起源的開放式架構的理念，並且認為你想擁有一切，但又不 100% 擁有任何東西，那麼就我們的接觸點而言，這只會擴大數千個 LP 的接觸點，並在地理上遍布全球。

So again, I think there's a very narrow -- when you look at the very narrow history of what ACS was, again, going back five years ago, it was really helping us enabling us to have broader distribution of our PE portfolio financing or other capital raises, it morphed around to our credit business, it morphed around to our hybrid business. And now as we think about our Insurance Solutions group and the open architecture of all these platforms, it really is just spurring on the breadth of our business.

所以，我認為，當你回顧 ACS 的非常狹窄的歷史時，再回溯到五年前，它確實幫助了我們，使我們能夠更廣泛地分配我們的 PE 投資組合融資或其他資本籌集，它轉變為我們的信貸業務，它轉變為我們的混合業務。現在，當我們思考我們的保險解決方案集團和所有這些平台的開放式架構時，它確實在促進我們業務的廣度。

And when we think about what trades today, this whole public private convergence, if one has a view that certainly, there's a lot of assets and in the future, vehicles and other mandates that will actually become more liquid, I could see us for a very large traditional manager having an SMA for them and being able to provide a variety of turnkey solutions in terms of their ability to dial up and dial down private credit.

當我們思考今天的交易，整個公私融合時，如果有人認為未來肯定會有大量資產、工具和其他授權實際上會變得更具流動性，我可以看到我們為一個非常大的傳統管理者提供SMA，並能夠在他們增加和減少私人信貸的能力方面提供各種交鑰匙解決方案。

So the vision which you talked about we're not -- it's only four months since our Investor Day. So we're certainly not prepared to change any trajectory right now. But it is -- if one really takes a step back and understands our broad strategy, the broad open architecture and public private convergence, this is a critical tool in the middle of that.

因此，您所談到的願景我們還沒有實現——距離我們的投資者日只有四個月的時間。因此我們現在當然不準備改變任何軌跡。但事實是——如果我們真的退一步思考，了解我們的整體策略、廣泛的開放架構和公私融合，就會發現這是其中的關鍵工具。

Mike Brown, Wells Fargo Securities.

富國證券的麥克布朗。

Great. So Marc, the no new toys there, it seems like it's officially done and M&A is kind of back in terms of capital allocation. So I guess in terms of the key strategic opportunities, where else will you focus? And it sounds like it's on increasing origination versus maybe adding other capabilities. But I guess I'd love to just hear a little more about that. And then does this have any implications to your capital allocation plans and capital return broadly?

偉大的。所以馬克，那裡沒有新玩具，似乎它已經正式完成，而併購在資本配置方面又回來了。那麼我想就關鍵策略機會而言，您還會關注哪些面向？聽起來這更像是在增加發起量，而不是增加其他功能。但我想我還是很想多聽一些關於這方面的資訊。那麼這對您的資本配置計畫和資本回報有何影響？

So I'll start with the latter. The answer is not really. All of the M&A, as I suggested, is small scale and origination base. We are focused on expanding capabilities that can be immediately accretive, buying something that in and of itself does not fit with our franchise, it just makes a little sense to the management team, given the four big TAMs in front of us. Buying something that facilitates our ability to serve those TAMs by integrating it into our business is what we're trying to do.

因此我將從後者開始。答案是不一定。正如我所說，所有的併購都是小規模和發起基礎。我們專注於擴大能夠立即增值的能力，購買一些本身並不適合我們特許經營的東西，但考慮到我們面前的四大 TAM，這對管理團隊來說有點意義。我們正在嘗試購買一些能夠增強我們為這些 TAM 提供服務的能力的產品，並將其整合到我們的業務中。

So if you think of Argo as a prototype, we have a large but not yet fully scaled infrastructure climate business. Argo adds 20-plus originators with a proven track record, who have been limited -- who have been originating against a relatively small box. $6 billion of AUM. What we are getting is we're getting 20-plus qualified individuals, $6 billion of AUM, a home scale business, what they are getting is the opportunity to now originate not just in the sectors they've been originating, but to originate debt, hybrid, lower risk, lower reward equity, equity and across a much larger scale platform. You should expect us to continue to build origination capabilities in our hybrid and real asset businesses, and in places where we are growing, but not yet at scale. And I just don't think it's of a size or a scale where we even think about it in the capital allocation terms. But no new choices officially over.

因此，如果您將 Argo 視為原型，我們擁有龐大但尚未完全擴展的基礎設施氣候業務。Argo 增加了 20 多名擁有良好業績記錄的發起者，這些發起者受到限制——他們針對的是相對較小的盒子。 60 億美元的資產管理規模。我們得到的是，我們得到了 20 多名合格的個人、60 億美元的資產管理規模、一家家庭規模的企業，他們得到的機會現在不僅可以在他們已經發起的領域發起，還可以發起債務、混合、低風險、低迴報股權、股權以及在更大規模的平台上發起。您應該期望我們繼續在混合和實體資產業務中以及在我們正在成長但尚未形成規模的地方建立發起能力。我只是不認為它的規模或範圍值得我們從資本配置的角度來考慮。但新的選擇尚未正式結束。

Craig Siegenthaler, Bank of America.

美國銀行的克雷格·西根塔勒（Craig Siegenthaler）。

My question is on the cost of funding Athene, which rose by 12 basis points sequentially. So how has the level of competition trended in the US annuity market. Several alts have replicated your model. They're guiding towards significant growth over five years. And how do you see changes in the competitive landscape impacted your spread-related earnings net spread over the next few years?

我的問題是關於 Athene 的融資成本，該成本環比上漲了 12 個基點。那麼美國年金市場的競爭水平趨勢如何？有多個替代品複製了你的模型。他們預計未來五年內將實現顯著成長。您認為競爭格局的變化將如何影響未來幾年與利差相關的淨利差？

Again, not to dwell on this in detail, but to go back in history a little bit, think about what you need to be successful in this business. You need capital, you need an efficient origination platform at scale. You can need a source of assets that produces investment-grade assets primarily, but with spreads, and you need low-cost liabilities. With the exception of maybe one player, no one else in the industry has these four alternatives. They have capital, but they lack all three of the other components. They definitely are not at a scale platform and OpEx is a huge portion of this business unlike in other asset management business.

再說一遍，我們不要詳細地討論這個問題，而是稍微回顧一下歷史，思考一下你需要什麼才能在這個行業中取得成功。你需要資金，你需要一個大規模、有效率的發起平台。您可能需要一個主要產生投資等級資產但有利差的資產來源，並且您需要低成本的負債。可能除了一名玩家之外，業內其他人都沒有這四種選擇。他們有資本，但缺乏其他三個要素。他們肯定不在一個規模平台上，而且與其他資產管理業務不同，營運支出 (OpEx) 佔這項業務的很大一部分。

We are -- you can look at what we do from an OpEx point of view in the detailed results. But as a primarily model line doing one thing with new systems, we just kill it. Everything else from a cost of funds, even from an infrastructure point of view, just goes right into cost of funds. Almost every other player, no one that I know has a regularly sized scaled ability to produce investment-grade assets with spreads.

您可以從詳細結果中的營運支出 (OpEx) 角度查看我們所做的事情。但作為一條主要採用新系統做某件事的模型線，我們只是將其終止。從資金成本來看，其他一切因素，甚至從基礎設施的角度來看，都直接計入資金成本。幾乎所有其他參與者，據我​​所知，沒有一個人具有定期規模生產具有利差的投資等級資產的能力。

Access to the CLO market is not the ability to produce spread, let us be clear. And the final thing is access to a low-cost source of funding. Until you are very highly rated and you have your operating infrastructure, you are not positioned to face off with what I'll call real accounts. What you can do is you can penetrate a portion of the market that does not care about credit quality, which is called the IMO market. It is an important but a smaller part of the market for us. And in that sector, where credit does not matter. We see people paying up for liabilities, and we have reduced our share, reduced our presence but still there in products that are of interest to us.

我們要明確一點，進入 CLO 市場並不代表能夠產生利差。最後就是獲得低成本的資金來源。除非您獲得很高的評級並且擁有自己的營運基礎設施，否則您無法面對我所說的真實帳戶。你所能做的就是滲透到不關心信用品質的市場部分，也就是所謂的 IMO 市場。對我們來說，這是一個很重要但是規模較小的市場。在那個領域，信用並不重要。我們看到人們在為債務付出代價，因此我們減少了份額，減少了存在感，但我們感興趣的產品仍然存在。

So for us, it's about pivoting channels. But if you take what I've just said to a logical conclusion, it's not -- you don't have an efficient infrastructure. You don't have the capability to produce assets. You don't have a good stable source of funding. How are you getting returns? You're not. You are -- the only way you are getting returns as you're doing cap barb right now. You're moving this business to Cayman, which is not a reciprocal jurisdiction in the US where you get to hold approximately half the capital and you try and scale a business and produce something so that you have these advantages over a period of time.

所以對我們來說，這就是通路轉型。但如果你根據我剛才所說做出合理的結論，那麼事實並非如此——你沒有高效的基礎設施。你沒有生產資產的能力。您沒有良好穩定的資金來源。您如何獲得回報？你不。你——這是你現在獲得回報的唯一方法，因為你正在做 cap barb。您正在將這項業務轉移到開曼群島，這不是美國的互惠管轄區，您可以持有大約一半的資本，並且您可以嘗試擴大業務規模並生產出一些東西，這樣您就可以在一段時間內擁有這些優勢。

I do not believe that, that is going to be a successful strategy, and I believe that will end badly for people. That does not mean there are not really good competitors. And I've cited who I think are the really good competitors, but it comes back to those four attributes.

我不相信這會是一個成功的策略，我相信這會為人們帶來糟糕的結局。但這並不意味著沒有真正優秀的競爭對手。我已經列舉了我認為真正優秀的競爭對手，但一切又回到了這四個特質。

For us, $70 billion-plus at reasonable spreads last year is what we wanted to do. This year, it will be more. If we find breaks in the market, it will be at the high end of more. And if we don't, it won't. Our job right now is to evolve and innovate. There is no shortage of demand for guaranteed income. What we need to do is to innovate on the packages. And as I've said, in January alone, we found $9 billion business, okay. Let's see what February brings and do it. But it is not about -- well, it is competitive. It is not about a fundamental change to business.

對我們來說，去年以合理的利差賺取 700 多億美元是我們想要實現的目標。今年會更多。如果我們發現市場出現突破，那麼突破點將處於更高的水平。如果我們不這樣做，那就不會成功。我們現在的工作是發展和創新。對於有保障的收入的需求並不缺乏。我們需要做的是對包裝進行創新。正如我所說的，僅在一月份，我們就發現了價值 90 億美元的業務。讓我們看看二月會帶來什麼並去做。但這並非——好吧，這是有競爭力的。這並不是對業務進行根本性變革。

Cost of funds is also a bit of a misleading number because cost of funds is -- some products have a higher cost of funds but a lower capital requirement. Some products have the opposite. We also have a market share and a market mix issue going on. But in the IMO channel, in the acquisition channel in places where credit is not at all limited. There's nothing that prevents people from paying up and sacrificing returns.

資金成本也是一個有點誤導的數字，因為有些產品的資金成本較高，但資本需求較低。有些產品則相反。我們也面臨市場佔有率和市場組合問題。但是在IMO管道，在收購管道中，信用完全不受限制的地方。沒有什麼可以阻止人們付出代價並犧牲回報。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

瑞銀的布倫南‧霍肯 (Brennan Hawken)。

I'm sorry.

對不起。

Let me add one more thing. Let me add one more thing to that comment. Just as you're looking at the earnings, you see -- and you can see this on the spread was pages, you actually see a comparable increase in the gross income earned to that cost of funds increased in the quarter. The -- and so we think on a net spread basis versus a gross income, gross cost of funds basis. But the the impact on spread for the quarter, as we highlighted, was the pull-through of last year's rate actions, which are coming through on the asset side. So you really need to look at it combined and reference that spread table, which we try to -- which we used to try to distill the key drivers into the key movements.

讓我再補充一點。讓我對該評論再補充一點。正如您所看到的，正如您在查看收益時看到的 - 您可以在利潤表頁面上看到這一點，您實際上看到本季度的總收入與資金成本的增加有類似的增長。因此，我們以淨利差為基礎，相對於總收入、總資金成本為基礎來思考。但正如我們所強調的，本季利差的影響是去年利率行動的拉動，而這些行動正在資產方面顯現出來。因此，您確實需要綜合起來看，並參考那個擴展表，我們嘗試用它將關鍵驅動因素提煉為關鍵變動。

Brennan Hawken, UBS.

瑞銀的布倫南‧霍肯 (Brennan Hawken)。

Sorry, Martin, you wrapped up?

抱歉，馬丁，你收拾完了嗎？

I'm wrapped up on that question.

我對這個問題很有興趣。

Okay. I wasn't sure. You and the operator were talking over the --

好的。我不確定。你和接線生正在通話--

Thanks for checking.

謝謝您的檢查。

Of course, no problem. Would love to hear a little on wealth management. So the fundraising was really quite strong. I want to say $12 billion, up about 50% versus last year, so really picking up, and that's in a market where we're seeing increased competition. So I'd love to hear about your ambitions. It seems as though ADS and AAA have driven a lot of this momentum. But do you expect that to continue? Do you expect there to be other products that will pick up in momentum as well? What should we think as we head into 2025 for that channel?

當然沒問題。很想聽聽關於財富管理的一些看法。因此籌款力度確實相當強勁。我想說的是 120 億美元，比去年增長了約 50％，所以確實在回升，而且我們看到市場競爭正在加劇。所以我很想聽聽你的抱負。看起來 ADS 和 AAA 在很大程度上推動了這一勢頭。但您認為這種情況會持續下去嗎？您是否預期其他產品的動能也會回升？當我們邁入 2025 年時，我們該如何看待該管道？

Go ahead, Jim, and then I'll wrap.

繼續吧，吉姆，然後我就結束了。

Sure. So I appreciate this. This for us is a journey. We identified five years ago, not only our ambition, but the five crucial components in terms of product, distribution, technology, education and performance. We brought that complete package to the table. Today, we have 11, our asset-backed credit company. But there's also a variety of other products, ADCF, which we're entering exciting times on that interval fund with demand from -- in tokenization.

當然。我很感激這一點。對我們來說這是一趟旅程。五年前，我們不僅確定了我們的目標，也確定了產品、分銷、技術、教育和績效的五個關鍵要素。我們已將這一整套方案擺到了檯面上。今天，我們有 11 家資產支持信貸公司。但還有各種其他產品，ADCF，我們正進入該間隔基金的激動人心的時刻，其需求來自代幣化。

But from our perspective, like again, 50% growth last year, the ambitions this year are still high. We believe this is going to be a group of select winners over time that have secured their position, and we rightly believe we have planted our flag. But by no means we'll be resting on our laurels. We're continuing to invest not only in the US, which was our primary growth geography but also in Europe, but also places like Korea and Japan and Australia that are critical.

但從我們的角度來看，就像去年 50% 的成長一樣，今年的目標仍然很高。我們相信，隨著時間的推移，他們將成為一群穩固其地位的獲勝者，我們也堅信，我們已經插上了自己的旗幟。但我們絕不會滿足於現狀。我們不僅會繼續在美國（我們的主要成長地區）進行投資，還會繼續在歐洲進行投資，此外還會在韓國、日本和澳洲等至關重要的地方進行投資。

And as Marc mentioned earlier, we've really done this with a view on creating products from the historic Apollo Asset Management side. I suspect whether it's activities around Altitude, which is a variety of our insurance wrap product, the future creation of DC solutions. We think that there -- the sandbox of opportunity will not only execute what we've done today, but it will expand dramatically. I will tell you that ADS, we've got the January numbers, best month on record. So we believe we have those five critical components, never resting on our laurels. But certainly, the ambition is global and to expand the product set in terms of client solutions, that's our objective and goal.

正如馬克之前提到的，我們這樣做實際上是為了從歷史悠久的阿波羅資產管理公司 (Apollo Asset Management) 方面創造產品。我懷疑這是否是圍繞 Altitude 開展的活動，Altitude 是我們保險包裝產品的種類，也是未來 DC 解決方案的創造。我們認為，機遇沙盒不僅能實現我們今天所做的事情，而且還會大大擴展。我會告訴你，ADS，我們已經獲得了一月份的數據，這是有史以​​來最好的月份。因此，我們相信我們已經擁有上述五個關鍵要素，並且絕對不會滿足於現狀。但可以肯定的是，我們的志向是全球性的，擴大客戶解決方案的產品組合，這就是我們的目標和目的。

Thank you. This brings us to the end of our allotted time for questions. I will now turn it back over to Mr. Gunn for closing comments.

謝謝。我們的提問時間到此結束。現在我將把主題交還給 Gunn 先生，請他發表最後評論。

Great. Thanks, operator, and thank you to everyone for joining us this morning and for your interest in Apollo. Of course, if you have any follow-up questions regarding our results or anything we discussed on today's call, please feel free to reach out to us, and we look forward to speaking with you again next quarter.

偉大的。謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家今天早上加入我們並對阿波羅感興趣。當然，如果您對我們的結果或我們在今天的電話會議上討論的任何內容有任何後續問題，請隨時與我們聯繫，我們期待下個季度再次與您交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's event. You may disconnect your lines or log off the webcast at this time, and enjoy the rest of your day.

女士們、先生們，今天的活動到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路或退出網路直播，並享受剩餘的一天。