Aehr Test Systems (AEHR) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to the Aehr Test Systems fiscal 2024 fourth quarter and full year financial results call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host, Jim Byers at MKR Investor Relations. You may begin.

問候。歡迎參加 Aehr Test Systems 2024 財年第四季和全年財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄製中。我現在將會議轉交給主持人 MKR 投資者關係部門的吉姆·拜爾斯 (Jim Byers)。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to Aehr Test Systems' fiscal 2024 fourth quarter and full year financial results conference call. With me on today's call are Aehr Test Systems, President and Chief Executive Officer, Gayn Erickson, and Chief Financial Officer. Chris Siu.

謝謝你，接線生。下午好，歡迎參加 Aehr Test Systems 2024 財年第四季和全年財務業績電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有 Aehr Test Systems 總裁兼執行長 Gayn Erickson 以及財務長。克里斯·蕭.

Before I turn the call over to Gayn and Chris, I'd like to cover a few items. This afternoon right after market closed, Aehr Test issued a press release announcing its fiscal 2024 fourth quarter and full year results. That release is available on the company's website at Aehr.com. There were two other announcements issued today and those are also posted to the company's website. This call is being broadcast live over the Internet for all interested parties, and the webcast will be archived on the Investor Relations page of the company's website.

在將電話轉給蓋恩和克里斯之前，我想先介紹一些內容。今天下午收盤後，Aehr Test 發布新聞稿，宣布其 2024 財年第四季和全年業績。此版本可在公司網站 Aehr.com 上取得。今天還發布了另外兩則公告，這些公告也發佈在該公司的網站上。此次電話會議將透過網路向所有有興趣的各方進行現場直播，網路廣播將存檔在公司網站的投資者關係頁面上。

I'd like to remind everyone that on today's call, management will be making forward-looking statements that are based on current information and estimates and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statement. These factors are discussed in the company's most recent periodic and current reports filed with the SEC.

我想提醒大家，在今天的電話會議上，管理層將根據當前資訊和估計做出前瞻性聲明，並受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際結果與預期結果存在重大差異。這些因素在公司向 SEC 提交的最新定期報告和當前報告中進行了討論。

These forward-looking statements including guidance provided during today's call, are only valid as of this date, and Aehr Test Systems undertakes no obligation to update the forward-looking statements.

這些前瞻性陳述（包括今天電話會議期間提供的指導）僅截至當日有效，Aehr Test Systems 不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的義務。

And now with that said, I'd like to turn the conference call over to Gayn Erickson, President and CEO. Gayn?

話雖如此，我想將電話會議轉交給總裁兼執行長 Gayn Erickson。蓋恩？

Thanks, Jim. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our fiscal 2014 fourth quarter and full year earnings conference call. Thanks for joining us today. I'll start with a quick summary of the highlights of the fiscal fourth quarter and full year we just completed in May and spend some time giving an update on the key markets Aehr addressing for semiconductor wafer level test and burn-in, including some new emerging opportunities.

謝謝，吉姆。大家下午好，歡迎參加我們的 2014 財年第四季和全年財報電話會議。感謝您今天加入我們。我將首先快速總結我們 5 月剛完成的第四財季和全年的亮點，並花一些時間介紹 Aehr 解決半導體晶圓級測試和老化的關鍵市場的最新情況，包括一些新的新興機會。

I also want to go over the exciting news we announced today with the acquisition of Incal technology, which has some incredible products addressing the ultra high power semiconductor market, including a significant number of AI processor makers. Then Chris will go over the financials in more detail and provide our guidance for the new fiscal year. After that, we'll open up the lines to take your questions.

我還想回顧一下我們今天宣布的收購 Incal technology 的令人興奮的消息，該公司擁有一些針對超高功率半導體市場的令人難以置信的產品，其中包括大量的人工智慧處理器製造商。然後克里斯將更詳細地介紹財務狀況，並為我們提供新財年的指導。之後，我們將開放線路回答您的問題。

Starting with our financial results. As we reported in our preannouncement last week, our full year revenue and net income results exceeded our previously provided guidance and surpassed analysts' consensus. Although we saw customer pushouts for silicon carbide devices due to slower electric vehicle demand in the second half of our fiscal year, we still achieved another record for annual revenue for Aehr of $66.2 million.

從我們的財務表現開始。正如我們在上週的預告中所報導的，我們的全年收入和淨利潤結果超出了我們之前提供的指導，也超出了分析師的共識。儘管我們看到客戶因本財年下半年電動車需求放緩而推出碳化矽裝置，但我們仍然創下了 Aehr 年收入 6,620 萬美元的另一紀錄。

On the bottom line, GAAP net income was $33.2 million or $1.12 per share, which includes a tax benefit resulting from the release of the company's full income tax valuation allowance of approximately $20.8 million recognized in the fourth quarter. Chris will talk more about that.

總體而言，GAAP 淨利潤為 3,320 萬美元，即每股 1.12 美元，其中包括因公司第四季度確認的約 2,080 萬美元的全額所得稅估值津貼發放而產生的稅收優惠。克里斯將更多地談論這一點。

This past year, wafer-level test and burn-in of silicon carbide power semiconductors used in electric vehicles or EVs were a key driver of our business, and we anticipate that market will continue to be a key contributor to revenue in the current fiscal year. We're also seeing traction with several emerging opportunities for our test and burn-in solutions in new target markets, and expect bookings and revenue across a much broader range of customers in markets this fiscal year.

去年，用於電動車或電動車的碳化矽功率半導體的晶圓級測試和老化是我們業務的關鍵驅動力，我們預計該市場將繼續成為本財年收入的主要貢獻者。我們也看到了新目標市場中我們的測試和老化解決方案的一些新興機會的吸引力，並預計本財年市場中更廣泛客戶的預訂和收入。

These new Target markets include quality, reliability, and production test and burn-in of artificial intelligence processors. Wafer-level burn-in of flash memory devices used in solid state disk drives. Burn-in of semiconductors used in hard disk drive magnetic read-write heads, wafer level burn-in of gallium nitride power semiconductors used in data centers and solar power conversion, and stabilization and burn-in of silicon photonics integrated circuits used for optical I/O communication between chipsets and processors.

這些新的目標市場包括人工智慧處理器的品質、可靠性以及生產測試和老化。固態磁碟機中使用的快閃記憶體裝置的晶圓級預燒。用於硬碟磁讀寫頭的半導體老化，用於資料中心和太陽能轉換的氮化鎵功率半導體的晶圓級老化，以及用於光學I的矽光子積體電路的穩定和老化/O 晶片組和處理器之間的通訊。

I'll cover at least a little on each of these key markets, beginning with wafer-level test and burn-in of silicon carbide devices. We continue to have a high level of confidence in this market, which remains an enormous opportunity for Aehr.

我將至少介紹這些關鍵市場，從晶圓級測試和碳化矽元件的老化開始。我們仍然對這個市場充滿信心，這對 Aehr 來說仍然是一個巨大的機會。

While most forecasters are saying that the inflection point for silicon carbide in electric vehicles is now the second half of 2025 into '26, from our many meetings with semi suppliers, tier ones, and electric car companies themselves, it's even more clear now that silicon carbide is the plan of record for electric vehicles and preferred over IGBTs.

雖然大多數預測者表示，碳化矽在電動車中的轉折點現在是2025 年下半年到26 年，但從我們與半導體供應商、一級供應商和電動車公司本身的多次會議來看，現在更清楚的是，矽碳化物是電動車的記錄計劃，並且比 IGBT 更受青睞。

Virtually, every car manufacturer is designing new electric vehicles with silicon carbide modules, which absolutely need reliability test and burn-in to screen out failures that otherwise will show up in the life of the vehicle. Burn-in of the die at the wafer level before the modules -- before they're put into modules is significantly more cost effective with much higher yield than doing this at the module level. We believe we're in a strong position to win more than our fair share of this business as we believe we have the industry leading wafer-level burn-in solution.

事實上，每家汽車製造商都在設計具有碳化矽模組的新型電動車，這絕對需要可靠性測試和老化，以排除在車輛使用壽命中出現的故障。在模組之前（在將其放入模組之前）在晶圓級對晶片進行老化比在模組級進行此操作明顯更具成本效益，並且產量也高得多。我們相信我們有能力贏得超過我們應有份額的業務，因為我們相信我們擁有領先業界的晶圓級老化解決方案。

This past year, we engaged with a significant number of new silicon carbide device and module suppliers related to their anticipated capacity needs. And we remain engaged with these and all major players in the market, including many in China. We continue to make great progress with our previously announced benchmarks and engagements and believe these potential customers are committed to wafer-level burn-in to meet their requirements for known good die for die sales and for their power modules.

去年，我們與大量新碳化矽元件和模組供應商進行了接觸，以滿足他們的預期產能需求。我們仍然與這些以及市場上的所有主要參與者保持接觸，其中包括中國的許多參與者。我們繼續在先前宣布的基準和承諾方面取得巨大進展，並相信這些潛在客戶致力於晶圓級老化，以滿足他們對裸片銷售及其電源模組的已知良好裸片的要求。

The silicon carbide market continues to be an enormous opportunity for us, and we're seeing more and more auto suppliers that are committed to silicon carbide in their EVs as well as road maps that are based on modules for their electric motor power inverters. We're also seeing growing demand for silicon carbide devices beyond the EV market, such as solar, data center, and other industrial applications for power conversion. We remain very enthusiastic and believe we are well positioned to continue to grow our business and silicon carbide and expect to receive first orders from a significant number of additional silicon carbide customers by the end of this fiscal year.

碳化矽市場對我們來說仍然是一個巨大的機會，我們看到越來越多的汽車供應商致力於在其電動車中使用碳化矽，以及基於其電動馬達功率逆變器模組的路線圖。我們也看到電動車市場之外對碳化矽元件的需求不斷增長，例如太陽能、資料中心和其他電力轉換工業應用。我們仍然充滿熱情，相信我們有能力繼續發展我們的業務和碳化矽，並預計到本財年末收到大量額外碳化矽客戶的第一批訂單。

Today, we announced that we received over 12 -- $12.7 million in orders from one of our silicon carbide customers for wafer pack full wafer contactors to be used for production needs for wafer-level burn-in and screening other silicon carbide devices for the EV market. We're excited about our continued partnership with this customer and to receive these orders to help them meet their needs for new device designs.

今天，我們宣布，我們從一家碳化矽客戶那裡收到了超過12 至1270 萬美元的訂單，訂單涉及晶圓封裝全晶圓接觸器，用於滿足晶圓級老化和篩選電動汽車用其他碳化矽器件的生產需求市場。我們很高興能夠與該客戶繼續合作，並收到這些訂單來幫助他們滿足新設備設計的需求。

As these orders illustrate, when our customers win new designs from their customers or they change device designs, wafer patterns or sizes, these customers need to order new wafer pack contactors from Aehr to fulfill these design changes. This consumable type of revenue grew in fiscal 2024 for us, representing 57% of total revenue as systems orders growth slowed, but new designs in variety of devices increased, causing incremental wafer sales on the installed base.

正如這些訂單所示，當我們的客戶從其客戶贏得新設計或改變裝置設計、晶圓圖案或尺寸時，這些客戶需要從 Aehr 訂購新的晶圓封裝接觸器來滿足這些設計變更。由於系統訂單成長放緩，我們的這種消耗品類型的收入在 2024 財年有所增長，佔總收入的 57%，但各種設備的新設計增加，導致安裝基礎上的晶圓銷售增加。

As we look ahead, we believe that silicon carbide remains a very large market opportunity for Aehr as more and more EV manufacturers adopt silicon carbide, and we believe we're well positioned to continue to capture market share. We expect to add a significant number of silicon carbide customers, both this fiscal year and the next fiscal year, as silicon carbide ramps in the second half of 2025 and into 2026.

展望未來，我們相信，隨著越來越多的電動車製造商採用碳化矽，碳化矽對 Aehr 來說仍然是一個非常大的市場機會，我們相信我們處於有利地位，可以繼續佔領市場份額。隨著 2025 年下半年和 2026 年碳化矽產量的增加，我們預計本財年和下一財年都會增加大量碳化矽客戶。

Now let me talk about the AI processor market. Last month, we announced we're working with an AI accelerator company to move their AI processor test and burn-in to wafer level, and have secured a commitment from them to evaluate our product solution for production level test and burn-in of their high power processors. This company recognizes the potential of the significant benefits of production test and burn-in of their accelerators while still in wafer form before they're integrated into the end application products, which would prove to be more cost effective and significantly more scalable than doing the screening later in their manufacturing process.

現在我來談談AI處理器市場。上個月，我們宣布正在與一家人工智慧加速器公司合作，將他們的人工智慧處理器測試和老化轉移到晶圓級，並已獲得他們的承諾，將評估我們的產品解決方案，以進行其生產級測試和老化。該公司認識到，在將加速器整合到最終應用產品之前，在其加速器仍處於晶圓形式的情況下進行生產測試和老化具有顯著的優勢，這將被證明比進行生產測試更具成本效益，並且可擴展性顯著提高。

We think this is an amazing opportunity to displace the current package and system level test for AI processes for large language model development. And we believe we can meet this enormous challenge with the current capabilities of our new high-power FOX-XP system with up to 3,500 watts per wafer testing. We're working on this benchmark as I speak here in the lab right now and expect to complete the evaluation in the next couple of months.

我們認為這是一個絕佳的機會，可以取代目前用於大型語言模型開發的人工智慧流程的套件和系統級測試。我們相信，憑藉我們新型高功率 FOX-XP 系統的當前功能（每晶圓測試功率高達 3,500 瓦），我們能夠應對這一巨大挑戰。正如我現在在實驗室發言一樣，我們正在研究這個基準，並預計在接下來的幾個月內完成評估。

Upon successful demonstration of wafer level test results and throughput, we expect they will utilize our new high-power FOX-XP systems for production of their next-generation AI processors starting this fiscal year. The rapidly growing AI market is still in the early stages, and we see a significant opportunity in this market for our FOX wafer level production systems, as I just discussed.

在成功展示晶圓級測試結果和吞吐量後，我們預計他們將從本財年開始利用我們的新型高功率 FOX-XP 系統來生產下一代人工智慧處理器。快速成長的人工智慧市場仍處於早期階段，正如我剛才所討論的，我們在這個市場中看到了我們的 FOX 晶圓級生產系統的巨大機會。

However, in addition, given the unique challenges of testing very high-power devices related to AI processors, there's a very real need for a significant amount of engineering qualification and process development as well as a significant new opportunity for production reliability screening at the packaged part level. AI semiconductors are amongst the highest power consumption devices in the entire semiconductor industry with power levels of recent devices up to 1,000 watts or more well beyond typical processors.

然而，此外，考慮到測試與人工智慧處理器相關的超高功率設備的獨特挑戰，確實需要大量的工程鑑定和製程開發，以及在封裝中進行生產可靠性篩選的重要新機會。 AI 半導體是整個半導體產業中功耗最高的設備之一，最新設備的功率等級高達 1,000 瓦或更高，遠遠超出了典型的處理器。

These power levels open a new market that requires new unique test solutions. I'm personally very excited and proud to announce today our acquisition plans for Incal Technology, a manufacturer of highly acclaimed reliability test and burn-in solutions have a wide range of semiconductor devices and markets. They have a particularly strong new product family of ultra-high power test solutions for AI accelerators, graphics, and network processors, and high-performance computing processors.

這些功率等級打開了一個需要新的獨特測試解決方案的新市場。我個人非常興奮和自豪地宣布今天我們對 Incal Technology 的收購計劃，Incal Technology 是一家廣受好評的可靠性測試和老化解決方案製造商，擁有廣泛的半導體裝置和市場。他們擁有特別強大的新產品系列，包括用於人工智慧加速器、圖形和網路處理器以及高效能運算處理器的超高功率測試解決方案。

Their ultra high-power packaged part test capabilities, combined with Aehr's industry-leading lineup of wafer-level test and reliability solutions uniquely position us to fully capitalize on the rapidly growing opportunity within the AI semiconductor market as a turnkey provider of reliability and test that spans from engineering to high-volume production.

他們的超高功率封裝部件測試能力，與Aehr 行業領先的晶圓級測試和可靠性解決方案陣容相結合，使我們能夠充分利用AI 半導體市場快速增長的機會，成為可靠性和測試的統包提供商，涵蓋從工程設計到大批量生產。

Incal is in a unique position with intimate knowledge and working relationships with a significant number of AI industry leaders, providing a front row seat to the technology needs of those customers. They're shipping systems today for use by a broad range of companies, with many of these companies projecting needs to move to high-volume production level burn-in of these devices. Both Aehr and Incal believe there's a tremendous opportunity to grow this business substantially.

Incal 處於獨特的地位，與大量人工智慧產業領導者擁有密切的知識和工作關係，可以為這些客戶的技術需求提供最前沿的支援。如今，他們正在交付可供眾多公司使用的系統，其中許多公司預計需要對這些設備進行大量生產等級的老化。 Aehr 和 Incal 都相信，這項業務有巨大的發展機會。

Incal has world class system hardware and software architectures and customers that have a high degree of customer loyalty for their products. Aehr brings worldwide sales and support infrastructure as well as high-volume manufacturing capacity and capabilities that together, we feel will quickly address customer demand, a very high global gold grade of AI and other high power semiconductors. We also bring R&D resources, technology, and processes, and the financial resources to be able to enhance and accelerate new needs that customers may ask for.

Incal擁有世界一流的系統硬體和軟體架構以及對其產品具有高度客戶忠誠度的客戶。 Aehr 帶來了全球銷售和支援基礎設施以及大量製造能力和能力，我們認為這些能力和能力將快速滿足客戶的需求，即人工智慧和其他高功率半導體的全球黃金級非常高的需求。我們也提供研發資源、技術、流程以及財務資源，以便能夠增強和加速客戶可能提出的新需求。

This unique combination strongly positions us to capitalize on the significant opportunity within AI market. Interestingly, we share several subcontract manufacturers and have similar supply chains as well as our strategy for in-house assembly and final test of our systems. I have known the founders and management team for a very long time, including their CEO. Alberto Salamony, who's been in the test and burn-in business for many years and who will be joining Aehr as an Executive Vice President to lead our packaged part burn-in business.

這種獨特的組合使我們能夠充分利用人工智慧市場的重大機會。有趣的是，我們共享多家分包製造商，並擁有相似的供應鏈以及內部組裝和系統最終測試的策略。我認識創辦人和管理團隊很久了，包括他們的執行長。 Alberto Salamony 從事測試和老化業務多年，他將加入 Aehr 擔任執行副總裁，領導我們的封裝零件老化業務。

Incal is located less than four miles away from Aehr's headquarters here in Fremont California with all employees located at that facility. This makes combining the two companies simpler and straightforward. We believe that between wafer-level and packaged part, the reliability test and burn-in market for AI processors exceeds $100 million annually. And with this combined product portfolio, we have the opportunity to capture a meaningful share of this market within this fiscal year.

Incal 距離加州弗里蒙特的 Aehr 總部不到四英里，所有員工都位於該工廠。這使得兩家公司的合併變得更加簡單和直接。我們認為，從晶圓級到封裝件，AI處理器的可靠性測試和老化市場每年超過1億美元。憑藉這個組合產品組合，我們有機會在本財年內佔領該市場的重要份額。

So moving on to the NAND flash memory market. We've been in discussions for several years with multiple flash memory companies related to our FOX-wafer level test and burn-in systems. These companies have provided us feedback on the definition and capabilities required for next generation wafer level test and burn-in system for their high volume production roadmap. This included feedback on our systems, WaferPaks. and particularly on our automation using our new fully automated wafer pack aligner. We see the NAND Flash market is a key market opportunity for our systems and WaferPak with long-term potential to also move into GM wafer-level test and burn-in.

因此，我們轉向 NAND 快閃記憶體市場。多年來，我們一直在與多家快閃記憶體公司就我們的 FOX 晶圓級測試和老化系統進行討論。這些公司向我們提供了有關其大批量生產路線圖的下一代晶圓級測試和老化系統所需的定義和功能的回饋。這包括對我們的系統 WaferPaks 的回饋。尤其是我們使用新型全自動晶圓包對準機的自動化。我們認為 NAND 快閃記憶體市場是我們系統和 WaferPak 的關鍵市場機會，具有進入 GM 晶圓級測試和老化的長期潛力。

This last quarter, we secured an engagement from one of the major flash memory suppliers to evaluate the FOX-XP system with our proprietary WaferPak full wafer contactors for full -- for wafer level test and burn-in of their flash memory devices. This application is for 100% test and burn-in of devices to be used in high reliability applications such as enterprise storage. This is a benchmark that's going to take us throughout the fiscal year to complete, and includes the development of a new high density wafer pack for production wafer level burn-in at 300 millimeter NAND wafers.

上個季度，我們與一家主要快閃記憶體供應商合作，使用我們專有的 WaferPak 全晶圓接觸器評估 FOX-XP 系統，以對其快閃記憶體設備進行晶圓級測試和預燒。該應用程式用於對企業儲存等高可靠性應用中使用的設備進行 100% 測試和老化。這是一個基準，需要我們整個財年才能完成，其中包括開發用於 300 毫米 NAND 晶圓生產晶圓級預燒的新型高密度晶圓組。

We see this as a multiyear opportunity and expect to have preliminary results and feedback during this fiscal year. Our goal is to come to an agreement for a customer-specific development of a test cell with the potential for revenue contribution in our fiscal 2026 that begins next June. We're very excited to have accomplished this critical goal this past year and believe this the front end of an exciting and potentially enormous opportunity for our solutions.

我們認為這是一個多年的機會，並期望在本財年獲得初步結果和回饋。我們的目標是就客戶特定的測試單元開發達成協議，該測試單元有可能在明年 6 月開始的 2026 財年貢獻收入。我們非常高興在過去的一年中實現了這一關鍵目標，並相信這對我們的解決方案來說是一個令人興奮且潛在的巨大機會的前端。

Another interesting market opportunity is hard disk drive market. One of the new market opportunities for wafer-level burn-in as semiconductors used in hard disk drives for data storage. Some of you may recall that in 2019, prior to the COVID-19 epidemic, we announced an order and shipment of our FOX-CP., which is our single wafer test and reliability solution for logic, memory and photonics devices. This was a key win with a major customer who purchased the system for wafer-level test and burn-in devices in a very high volume application for enterprise and data center markets.

另一個有趣的市場機會是硬碟市場。作為用於資料儲存的硬碟的半導體，晶圓級預燒的新市場機會之一。有些人可能還記得，在 2019 年，在 COVID-19 流行之前，我們宣布了 FOX-CP 的訂單和發貨，這是我們針對邏輯、記憶體和光子裝置的單晶圓測試和可靠性解決方案。對於購買該系統用於企業和資料中心市場大批量應用中的晶圓級測試和老化設備的大客戶來說，這是一個關鍵的勝利。

They had forecasted to ramp into production over several years, but the pandemic impacted their plans. After a multiyear product development and qualification process and impact due to COVID-19, this customer that we've now disclosed is a hard disk drive -- in the hard disk drive space has introduced their product and is now forecasting the production ramp to begin in our current fiscal year, most likely in the second half. We believe this will drive orders for multiple CP production systems and WaferPaks and could even be a 10% customer for us this year.

他們原本預計將在幾年內投入生產，但大流行影響了他們的計劃。經過多年的產品開發和資格認證過程以及 COVID-19 的影響，我們現在披露的這個客戶是硬碟 - 在硬碟領域已經推出了他們的產品，現在預測產量將開始增加在我們當前的財政年度，最有可能是下半年。我們相信這將推動多個 CP 生產系統和 WaferPaks 的訂單，甚至可能成為我們今年 10% 的客戶。

All right, turning to silicon photonics burn-in market. Within the silicon photonics market, we shipped the first order from a major silicon photonics customer for new high-power configuration of the XP system late in our third fiscal quarter. This new configuration expands our market opportunity by enabling cost-effective buying production testing wafers of next-generation photonic ICs that are targeted for use in the new optical I/O or co-packaged optics market. Nvidia, AMD, and Intel are examples of companies that have all discussed the potential for adding optical chip-to-chip communication for performance improvement and power savings for AI processors and high-performance computing chips.

好吧，轉向矽光子老化市場。在矽光子市場中，我們在第三財季末從一家主要矽光子客戶那裡發出了第一筆訂單，該訂單涉及 XP 系統的新高功率配置。這種新配置能夠以經濟高效的方式購買下一代光子 IC 的生產測試晶圓，這些晶圓旨在用於新的光學 I/O 或共同封裝光學市場，從而擴大了我們的市場機會。 Nvidia、AMD 和英特爾等公司都討論了添加光學晶片間通訊以提高人工智慧處理器和高效能運算晶片的效能和節能的潛力。

Optical I/O has the potential to be a game changer for semiconductors as it breaks the bottleneck of data transmission bandwidth limitations of electrical I/O. These next-generation silicon photonics-based integrated circuits can require up to two to four times as much power for full wafer test burn-in and stabilization. Aehr's new high-power system configuration being can be used to test and burn-in up to nine of these new optical I/O device wafers at a time up to 35 hundred watts of power per wafer.

光學 I/O 有潛力成為半導體產業的遊戲規則改變者，因為它打破了電氣 I/O 資料傳輸頻寬限制的瓶頸。這些新一代基於矽光子的積體電路可能需要高達兩到四倍的功率來進行全晶圓測試老化和穩定。 Aehr 的新型高功率系統配置可用於測試和老化多達 9 個新型光學 I/O 裝置晶圓，每個晶圓的功率高達 3500 瓦。

This is absolutely unique in the market as we're not aware of any other solution that can test even one of these wafers in a single touchdown, much less nine of them at a time like we can. While the timing of these devices and volume ramps are not clear, we're watching this market very closely to ensure that we have the products and solutions available to meet the needs of our customers for this potentially significant market applications.

這在市場上絕對是獨一無二的，因為我們不知道有任何其他解決方案可以在一次著陸中測試這些晶圓中的一個，更不用說像我們一樣一次測試九個晶圓了。雖然這些設備的推出時間和產量成長尚不清楚，但我們正在密切關注這個市場，以確保我們擁有可用的產品和解決方案來滿足客戶對這一潛在重要市場應用的需求。

Now let me lastly talk about the GaN market opportunity. This past year, we announced our first order for a FOX wafer-level test and burn-in system for gallium nitride or GaN devices. While silicon carbide will be the semiconductor material choice for EV traction inverters, GaN is expected to gain significant penetration in the onboard charging market as well as other automotive, solar, and data center power conversion applications.

現在讓我最後談談GaN市場機會。去年，我們宣布了第一筆用於氮化鎵或 GaN 裝置的 FOX 晶圓級測試和老化系統訂單。雖然碳化矽將成為電動車牽引逆變器的半導體材料選擇，但氮化鎵預計將在車載充電市場以及其他汽車、太陽能和資料中心電力轉換應用中獲得顯著滲透。

We're working with several of the GaN market leaders and received a significant number of wafer pack orders throughout the year for gallium nitride reliability, test, and qualification of our systems. We have now received our first forecast for wafer-level production burn-in systems to be delivered during this fiscal year. We continue to be encouraged by this market and believe it will be a significant end market size for semiconductors and has the potential to be a solid market opportunity for Aehr Solutions.

我們正在與多家 GaN 市場領導者合作，全年收到大量晶圓封裝訂單，以確保我們系統的氮化鎵可靠性、測試和認證。我們現在收到了本財年交付的晶圓級生產老化系統的第一份預測。我們繼續受到這個市場的鼓舞，並相信這將是半導體的一個重要的終端市場規模，並有可能成為 Aehr Solutions 的堅實市場機會。

Looking ahead, we expect fiscal 2025 to be an exciting year for Aehr. Silicon carbide is poised to be a key contributor to revenue again this year. But we also expect bookings and revenue from across a much broader range of customers and markets as I discussed. We have a lot of opportunities in front of us, and we look forward to reporting on our progress throughout the fiscal year.

展望未來，我們預計 2025 財年對 Aehr 來說將是令人興奮的一年。碳化矽有望再次成為今年收入的主要貢獻者。但正如我所討論的，我們也預期來自更廣泛的客戶和市場的預訂和收入。我們面前有很多機會，我們期待報告整個財年的進展。

With that, let me turn the call over to Chris before we open up the line for questions.

就這樣，在我們開通提問線之前，讓我把電話轉給克里斯。

Thank you, Gayn, and good afternoon, everyone. On today's call, I will summarize our results for fiscal year 2024 as well as the fourth quarter, and then I'll provide our guidance for fiscal year 2025. Starting with the full year results, we reported record revenue of $66.2 million, up 2% year over year. Our full year GAAP gross margin was 49.1% compared to 50.4% in the prior year. Our full year non-GAAP net income increased to a record $35.8 million or $1.21 per diluted share, which includes the impact of a tax benefit resulting from the release of the company's full income tax valuation allowance of approximately $20.8 million compared to non-GAAP net income of $17.3 million or $0.59 per diluted share in fiscal 2023.

謝謝蓋恩，大家下午好。在今天的電話會議上，我將總結 2024 財年和第四季度的業績，然後提供 2025 財年的指導。又一年。我們全年 GAAP 毛利率為 49.1%，前一年為 50.4%。我們的全年非GAAP 淨利潤增至創紀錄的3580 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益1.21 美元，其中包括與非GAAP 淨利潤相比，公司全額所得稅估值津貼釋放帶來的稅收優惠的影響，約2080 萬美元2023 財年的收入為 1730 萬美元，或稀釋後每股收入 0.59 美元。

In fiscal 2024, we generated $1.8 million in operating cash flows. Our annual bookings in fiscal 2024 were $49 million compared to $78.3 million in the prior fiscal year. The decrease was mainly due to customer pushouts of forecasted orders related to silicon carbide devices due to slower electric vehicle demand in the second half of our fiscal year. Our backlog as of year-end was $7.3 million. With $13.5 million in bookings received in the first six weeks of the first quarter of fiscal 2025, we now have an effective backlog of $20.8 million.

2024 財年，我們產生了 180 萬美元的營運現金流。我們 2024 財年的年度預訂金額為 4,900 萬美元，而上一財年為 7,830 萬美元。下降的主要原因是由於本財年下半年電動車需求放緩，客戶取消了與碳化矽設備相關的預測訂單。截至年底，我們的積壓訂單為 730 萬美元。 2025 財年第一季的前六週內，我們收到了 1,350 萬美元的預訂，目前，我們的有效積壓金額為 2,080 萬美元。

Looking at our financial results for the fourth quarter, total revenue was $16.6 million, down 25% from $22.3 million in Q4 last year. WaferPak revenues were $12.4 million and accounted for 75% of total revenue in the fourth quarter, which is significantly higher than the 38% of total revenue in the prior year. Q4. WaferPak revenues continue to represent a significant significant revenue stream for our business due to the strong demand for new wafer pack designs from our existing and new customers, as they win new end-customer designs and look to meet their market requirements.

從我們第四季的財務表現來看，總收入為 1,660 萬美元，比去年第四季的 2,230 萬美元下降了 25%。 WaferPak 營收為 1,240 萬美元，佔第四季總營收的 75%，明顯高於去年同期的 38%。 Q4。由於我們的現有客戶和新客戶贏得了新的最終客戶設計並希望滿足其市場需求，因此對新晶圓封裝設計的強勁需求，WaferPak 收入繼續代表我們業務的重要收入來源。

GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter came in at 50.9%, down from 51.5% in Q4 last year. The decrease in gross margin is primarily due to lower revenue, resulting in a higher overhead absorption rate and lower manufacturing efficiencies.

第四季 GAAP 毛利率為 50.9%，低於去年第四季的 51.5%。毛利率下降的主要原因是收入下降，導致管理費用吸收率上升和製造效率下降。

Operating expenses in the fourth quarter were $5.9 million, consistent with $5.8 million in Q4 last year. This slight year over year. Increase is primarily driven by increased headcount related expenses to support our R&D programs and G&A requirements, which were partially offset by lower professional fees. We continue to invest in R&D to enhance our existing market-leading products and to introduce new products to maintain our competitive advantages and expand our applications and addressable markets.

第四季營運費用為 590 萬美元，與去年第四季的 580 萬美元持平。與往年相比，這一點略有不同。成長主要是由於支援我們的研發計劃和一般行政費用要求而增加的人員相關費用，但部分被專業費用的降低所抵消。我們繼續投資於研發，以增強我們現有的市場領先產品，並推出新產品，以保持我們的競爭優勢並擴大我們的應用和潛在市場。

During fiscal 2024, we have invested significant resources to augment the features and performance of our automated WaferPak aligner developed a new high-power configuration of our FOX-XP system for volume production, wafer-level burn-in and stabilization of next-generation silicon photonics integrated circuits.

在 2024 財年，我們投入了大量資源來增強自動 WaferPak 對準機的功能和性能，開發了 FOX-XP 系統的新高功率配置，用於批量生產、晶圓級老化和下一代矽的穩定性光子積體電路。

At the end of the fourth quarter, we released a full income tax valuation allowance and recorded deferred tax assets and the tax benefit of $20.8 million. We released this valuation allowance as we believe it is more likely than not that the company will realize the deferred tax assets. Non-GAAP net income for the fourth quarter, which includes the impact of the tax benefit mentioned earlier but excludes the impact of stock-based compensation and acquisition related costs was $24.7 million or $0.84 per diluted share for the fourth quarter compared to non-GAAP net income of $6.9 million or $0.23 per diluted share in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2023.

在第四季末，我們發布了全額所得稅估價津貼，並記錄了遞延稅資產和 2,080 萬美元的稅收優惠。我們發布這項估值備抵是因為我們認為該公司很有可能實現遞延所得稅資產。與非GAAP 相比，第四季度非GAAP 淨利潤（包括前面提到的稅收優惠的影響，但不包括基於股票的薪酬和收購相關成本的影響）為2,470 萬美元，即稀釋後每股收益0.84美元2023 財年第四季淨利為 690 萬美元，或稀釋後每股收益 0.23 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet, we finished the year with a strong cash position. Our cash and cash equivalents were $49.2 million at year end, up slightly from our cash and short-term investments of $47.9 million at the end of Q4 last year. But a solid balance sheet, we will fund the acquisition of Incal Technology using our cash on hand and common stock. We will continue to invest in scaling our business and entering new markets and supporting new opportunities.

轉向資產負債表，我們以強勁的現金狀況結束了這一年。截至年底，我們的現金和現金等價物為 4,920 萬美元，略高於去年第四季末的現金和短期投資 4,790 萬美元。但憑藉穩健的資產負債表，我們將使用手頭現金和普通股為收購 Incal Technology 提供資金。我們將繼續投資擴大業務、進入新市場並支持新機會。

We generated $1.2 million in operating cash flows during the quarter. We have zero debt and continue to invest our excess cash in money market funds, interest income earned during this higher interest rate environment was $592,000 in the fourth quarter compared to $487,000 in the same quarter last year. As of the end of Q4, the remaining amount available under the previously announced $25 million ATM offering was $17.7 million.

本季我們產生了 120 萬美元的營運現金流。我們的債務為零，並繼續將多餘的現金投資於貨幣市場基金，在這種較高的利率環境下，第四季度賺取的利息收入為 592,000 美元，而去年同期為 487,000 美元。截至第四季末，先前宣布的 2,500 萬美元 ATM 發行中的剩餘可用金額為 1,770 萬美元。

We did not sell any shares during fiscal 2024. It remains our plan to only sell share against this ATM offering at times and prices at the most advantageous to our shareholders and to the company. Today, we announced that we have changed the company's fiscal year end from May 31 to a 4-4-5 fiscal calendar ending on the Friday closest to May 31. The first fiscal year under the new financial calendar began on June 1, 2024, and will end on May 30, 2025. Our first quarter fiscal 2025 will end on August 30, 2024. This change is expected to improve the comparability of the company's financial results between periods.

我們在 2024 財年期間沒有出售任何股票。今天，我們宣布，我們已將公司的會計年度結束日期從5 月31 日更改為4-4-5 會計日曆，截止日期為最接近5 月31 日的星期五。年度於2024 年6 月1 日開始，並將於2025年5月30日結束。可比性。

Now turning to our outlook for the current fiscal 2025. For the fiscal year ending on May 30, 2025, we expect total revenue of at least $70 million, which includes the acquisition of Incal technology. As we mentioned earlier, we will release the full income tax valuation allowance and recorded deferred tax assets in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2024. Beginning in the first quarter of fiscal 2025, we expect to incur income tax expenses. For fiscal 2025, we expect a net profit before taxes of at least 10% of revenue.

現在轉向我們對目前 2025 財年的展望。正如我們之前提到的，我們將在 2024 財年第四季釋放全額所得稅估價備抵和記錄的遞延稅資產。 2025 財年，我們預計稅前淨利至少佔營收的 10%。

Lastly, looking at the investor relations calendar, Aehr Test will be meeting with investors virtually at the Needham Fifth Annual semiconductor and Semi-cap Conference on Wednesday, August 21, and then the following week we'll be meeting with investors in person on Tuesday, August 27 at the Jefferies Technology Summit taking place in Chicago. We hope to meet some of you at these conferences. This concludes our prepared remarks, and we're now ready to take your questions. Operator, please go ahead.

最後，看看投資者關係日曆，Aehr Test 將於 8 月 21 日星期三在 Needham 第五屆年度半導體和半帽會議上與投資者進行虛擬會面，然後下週我們將在周二親自與投資者會面8月27 日，在芝加哥舉行的Jefferies 技術高峰會上。我們希望在這些會議上見到你們中的一些人。我們準備好的發言到此結束，現在我們準備回答你們的問題。接線員，請繼續。

(Operator Instructions) Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum.

（操作員說明）Christian Schwab、Craig Hallum。

Congratulations guys on the acquisition. Gayn, if you look at the Incal acquisition, I assume the company is a growth company. Can you give us an idea approximately how much revenue of the $70 million is Incal?

恭喜大家獲得收購。 Gayn，如果你看看 Incal 的收購，我認為該公司是一家成長型公司。您能否告訴我們，在這 7000 萬美元中，Incal 的收入大約有多少？

Probably, the easiest question that I will try and to answer as best I can. So one of the challenges is we did close it first, and they did about $12 million over the last 12 months. And so plus or minus a month or two, even at that same run rate plus or minus a million or two or something like that. Candidly, we're taking a pretty cautious stance. But if you use those kind of numbers like $1 million per month from the time we close it, it's probably a good number on.

也許這是我會盡力回答的最簡單的問題。所以挑戰之一是我們首先完成了它，他們在過去 12 個月中完成了大約 1200 萬美元。所以加上或減去一兩個月，即使在相同的運行速度下加上或減去一百萬或兩個月或類似的東西。坦白說，我們採取非常謹慎的立場。但如果你使用這樣的數字，例如從我們關閉之日起每月 100 萬美元，這可能是一個不錯的數字。

But we -- it get us into a lot of the strategy what's going on? There's been a number of customers that they've been engaged with that have we have reason to believe either directly or indirectly our engagement is going to help them with respect to their manufacturing plants. And so we've taken a pretty conservative forecast based upon kind of their current run rates in that $70 million. And we would expect it to grow from there. So again, just trying to take a pretty conservative stance right now, and we'll do a lot more after we do all the customer visits here over the next several weeks.

但我們——它讓我們了解了很多策略，正在發生什麼？他們已經與許多客戶合作，我們有理由相信我們的合作將直接或間接地幫助他們的製造工廠。因此，我們根據他們目前 7000 萬美元的運行率做出了相當保守的預測。我們預計它會從那裡開始增長。再說一遍，現在只是嘗試採取相當保守的立場，在接下來的幾週內完成所有客戶訪問後，我們將做更多的事情。

No, that's fair, thank you. You mentioned on the silicon carbide side that you would expect to qualified, this fiscal year with a number of companies in China, given their increased presence in the silicon carbide market, our ability to maybe lower prices faster than others and gain further share. How many customers by the end of the fiscal year, which you hope to be engaged with?

不，這很公平，謝謝。您在碳化矽方面提到，鑑於中國的許多公司在碳化矽市場的影響力不斷增加，您預計本財年將獲得資格，我們可能比其他公司更快地降低價格並獲得更多份額。到本財年結束時，您希望與多少客戶合作？

Okay. Well, I hope to be engaged with fewer customers because I can't -- I feel like we are a couple of minutes over with the number of engagements, because as soon as they become customers, then we stopped talking about the engagement and trying to be serious or actually. I think what you probably meant is how many are we now adding as customers.

好的。好吧，我希望與更少的客戶互動，因為我做不到——我覺得我們的互動數量已經超過了幾分鐘，因為一旦他們成為客戶，我們就不再談論互動並嘗試認真地或實際上。我想你的意思可能是我們現在增加了多少客戶。

And if I may put that new word on, I've put a specific number on. I mean, we've got some internal targets that we're going forward. But I would say several plus, if you look at our current forecast and funnel, there is I mean, there's -- in terms of well qualified perfectly capable have fabs, it's well over a dozen just pure silicon carbide players. These are guys that aren't customers from us yet. It might be close to two dozen total, if you look at everybody.

如果可以的話，我已經寫了一個具體的數字。我的意思是，我們有一些正在推進的內部目標。但我想說的是，如果你看看我們目前的預測和漏斗，我的意思是，就合格的、完全有能力的晶圓廠而言，有十幾個純碳化矽廠商。這些人還不是我們的客戶。如果你看每個人，總數可能接近兩打。

As we discussed about it last year and two more questions on China, we are engaged with multiple Chinese suppliers as well and would hope to add one or more of those customers also over the next year and a half or so. The reason I'm hedging a little bit on the year and half is is we know that there are people that are talking about are bringing on capacity in second half of '25. And we're just trying to figure out when the first tools would be installed i. e, I can still win them and maybe install the darn thing in the fall, and that would still be a win for us. But the timing relative to the other under our June first fiscal year is a bit of a pain right now so.

正如我們去年討論的那樣以及另外兩個有關中國的問題，我們也與多家中國供應商進行了合作，並希望在未來一年半左右的時間內增加一個或多個這些客戶。我之所以對這一年半的時間進行一些對沖，是因為我們知道有人在談論將在 25 年下半年增加產能。我們只是想弄清楚何時安裝第一個工具。 e，我仍然可以贏得他們，也許在秋天安裝該死的東西，這對我們來說仍然是一場勝利。但相對於我們六月第一個財年的另一個時機，現在有點痛苦。

Okay, that's fair. Thank you for that clarity, Gayn. And then my last question on the AI accelerator large language. Can you give us an idea if you're successful there on the new customer? How big could that be?

好吧，這很公平。謝謝你說得這麼清楚，蓋恩。然後是我關於人工智慧加速器大語言的最後一個問題。如果您在新客戶方面取得了成功，您能給我們一個想法嗎？那能有多大？

Yeah. We're trying to get our arms around that as well. You know, it's a little weird to talk about who it is or who it is not. But I've actually just and this might get me in trouble someday, but it's not Nvidia. I have been tried to be pretty clear with people because it's just not fair, I guess at some point Nvidia ever goes with us now what am I going to say, but on the date. They are a a revenue generating company today, they have customers. They're doing very well, it's pretty exciting. There's some discussion about being able to go public with them once we have successfully demonstrated it.

是的。我們也在努力解決這個問題。你知道，談論他是誰或不是誰有點奇怪。但實際上我只是這樣做，這可能有一天會給我帶來麻煩，但它不是 Nvidia。我一直試圖向人們說清楚，因為這不公平，我想在某個時候 Nvidia 會和我們一起，現在我要說什麼，但在日期上。如今，他們是一家創收公司，他們擁有客戶。他們做得很好，這非常令人興奮。一旦我們成功地展示了它，就會有一些關於是否能夠與他們公開的討論。

They really would have a huge benefit by moving their system-level test burn-in to wafer level. And I can't decided if who's more excited about this if it's us or them, with them cheering us on to please hopefully make this work for them. This is an interesting one because we are doing some pretty unique things that I'll just share a little bit about, but I'm also holding things to my chest because of competitive reasons. I just don't want to give away any of our secrets.

透過將系統級測試老化轉移到晶圓級，他們確實會獲得巨大的好處。我無法決定誰對此更興奮，是我們還是他們，他們為我們歡呼，希望這對他們有用。這是一件有趣的事情，因為我們正在做一些非常獨特的事情，我只會分享一些，但由於競爭原因，我也將事情憋在心裡。我只是不想洩露我們的任何秘密。

But the idea to actually be putting -- I mentioned you 2,000, to 3,000 box on a wafer 3,500 watts on a wafer. If you're actually close to this, technically, you would know that all AI processors at these geometries are lithographies are all one volt or thereabout parts. What that means if you're going to do 3,000 watts, you're putting 3,000 amps onto a wafer.

但實際上的想法是——我提到在晶圓上放置 2,000 到 3,000 個盒子，在晶圓上放置 3,500 瓦。如果你實際上接近這一點，從技術上講，你就會知道這些幾何形狀的所有人工智慧處理器都是光刻，都是一伏或大約一伏的部件。這意味著，如果您要輸出 3,000 瓦的功率，則需要在晶圓上施加 3,000 安培的電流。

Okay. People's head spin with this, the idea of putting in our house and amps much less two or more thousand ounce on a wafer. And so what we're doing is quite novel and we are using the FOX-XP system that we ship first to optical AI. at the last quarter, we mentioned that we were working on something else on the side stay tuned, but that's what we we're alluding to.

好的。人們對此感到頭暈，想到在我們的房子和擴大機上放置兩或更多千盎司的晶圓。因此，我們正在做的事情非常新穎，我們正在使用我們首先向光學 AI 提供的 FOX-XP 系統。在上個季度，我們提到我們正在做其他事情，請繼續關注，但這就是我們所暗示的。

The development of that system in terms of the power -- being able to put that much power out and move that much power because you have to remove it all to the wafer itself is totally novel. How we deliver that power for optical I/O is actually interestingly a little higher voltage and lower current, whereas in the AI, it's higher current, lower voltage. But the thermal challenges are the same.

這個系統在功率方面的發展——能夠輸出那麼多功率並移動那麼多功率，因為你必須將它全部轉移到晶圓本身上，這是完全新穎的。有趣的是，我們為光纖 I/O 提供功率的方式實際上是更高的電壓和更低的電流，而在 AI 中，它是更高的電流、更低的電壓。但熱挑戰是相同的。

So we have a lot of confidence that we're working through that with this right now. And we're -- I walked in back just now talking the ops guys, they're working on this on multiple wafers right now with multiple wafer packs. So looks encouraging and stay tuned. I've got my fingers crossed that we can work through all this stuff. And we think we're pretty confident that we can make this work and the customers hoping interior design to make it work.

因此，我們非常有信心，我們現在正在解決這個問題。我們 - 我剛剛走進來與操作人員交談，他們現在正在使用多個晶圓包在多個晶圓上進行此工作。所以看起來令人鼓舞並敬請期待。我祈禱我們能夠解決所有這些問題。我們認為我們非常有信心能夠實現這一目標，而客戶也希望室內設計能夠實現這一目標。

Great. Thanks, Gayn, I'll get back in the queue and let some other people ask questions. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝 Gayn，我會回到隊列中並讓其他人提問。謝謝。

Okay, thank you.

好的謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

（操作員說明）Jed Dorsheimer、William Blair。

Hi, yeah, thanks for taking my question. And Gayn, congrats on the acquisition. I guess just from a framing perspective, is it fair to say that next year is largely going to be driven off of some silicon carbide, maybe a little bit in gallium nitride and as you invest in some of these other very interesting and high volume markets?

你好，是的，謝謝你提出我的問題。蓋恩，恭喜您完成收購。我想，從框架的角度來看，可以公平地說，明年將在很大程度上淘汰一些碳化矽，也許會淘汰一點氮化鎵，並且當您投資其他一些非常有趣的大批量市場時？

The way we've actually got the forecast right now is we've taken a pretty conservative stab at the silicon carbide things. And so I think we are -- you know, we could we could do well over 30%, add new customers and new markets in that $70 million number. So if you look at the hard disk drive application, I already mentioned, could be like a 10% customer. The production forecast for the AI is a 10% or of certainly at the $70 million. The flash memory will not be, we don't -- I think that's not going to be for revenue. We don't have any in there for this, but we hope to secure an order for maybe the next year revenue. And then the GaN could with the production capacity that we've been shown, that could maybe be a 10% customer or more as well.

我們現在實際上得到預測的方式是我們對碳化矽採取了相當保守的態度。所以我認為我們——你知道，我們可以做得超過 30%，在 7000 萬美元的數字中增加新客戶和新市場。因此，如果您查看硬碟應用程序，我已經提到過，可能會像 10% 的客戶一樣。 AI 的產量預測為 10%，或肯定為 7,000 萬美元。閃存不會，我們不會——我認為這不會為了收入。我們對此沒有任何準備，但我們希望能獲得一份訂單，也許可以為明年帶來收入。然後 GaN 可以憑藉我們已經展示的生產能力，也可能成為 10% 或更多的客戶。

So you got you got 10 -- three different 10 percenters And none of those are silicon carbide. And then I feel like I'm missing one, there's too many of them. But then, within the customer base, we are seeing some of the customers, candidly, we thought were going to close this year that had moved out in time, but then the fabs are coming. So I think being able to secure that first wave several of those guys at least keeping of a single production if not multiple production systems could happen by by May as well.

所以你得到了 10——三個不同的 10% 而且這些都不是碳化矽。然後我覺得我錯過了一個，他們太多了。但是，在客戶群中，我們看到一些客戶，坦白說，我們以為今年會關閉，但他們已經及時搬走了，但隨後晶圓廠就來了。因此，我認為到 5 月份，也可能確保第一波浪潮中的幾個人至少保留一個生產系統（如果不是多個生產系統的話）。

So I guess, yes, silicon carbide still going to be really strong. We think that even within silicon carbide, we will be more diverse than sort of the six customers they have, but only two of them really were 10% tech customers will actually see more customers that could be material to us, but they are the leading edge to the fabs that will be coming online in '25 late in '26.

所以我想，是的，碳化矽仍然會非常堅固。我們認為，即使在碳化矽領域，我們也會比他們擁有的六個客戶更加多樣化，但其中只有兩個真正是10% 的科技客戶，實際上會看到更多對我們來說可能重要的客戶，但他們是領先的領先於將於 25 年末、26 年上線的晶圓廠。

Got it. That's helpful. Thank you.

知道了。這很有幫助。謝謝。

And then could you just help me connect the dots, if I use -- you said EUR12 million with two months of 1 million, so it's EUR10 million for Incal. It would suggest that the core business is kind of you're guiding for a conservative or down year at the low end of $60 million. But on the operating income, if it's immediately accretive, which I think was stated in there, are you making a significant investment in the OpEx to a cause the EBIT to come down by a six or so percentage points or is that -- is something going on in gross?

然後你能幫我把這些點連起來嗎，如果我用——你說兩個月100萬歐元1200萬歐元，那麼Incal就是1000萬歐元。這表明你的核心業務是保守的或下滑的一年，目標是 6000 萬美元的低端。但就營業收入而言，如果它立即增加（我認為其中已說明），您是否在運營支出上進行了大量投資，導致息稅前利潤下降了六個左右百分點，或者是——是的？情況如何？

Yeah, you know what it is, I'd say it's there's it's mostly the prior than that. Then the gross margin of it. We've actually made incremental expense investments, some of which candidly was in anticipation of much higher revenue this year. But it was things like the additional infrastructure we put in place and sales support infrastructure for all the selling that's going on. And eventually, those leads turn into orders as we are now very diversified in terms of the number of engagements at a high level, but they obviously need to come to fruition, otherwise you put all these dollars in place and they're not helping. So there's explicit direct sales or costs associated with that.

是的，你知道它是什麼，我想說它就在那裡，大部分是在這之前的。然後是它的毛利率。實際上，我們已經進行了增量支出投資，其中一些投資坦率地說是為了預計今年的收入會更高。但這是我們為所有正在進行的銷售建立的額外基礎設施和銷售支援基礎設施之類的事情。最終，這些線索變成了訂單，因為我們現在在高水平的參與數量方面非常多樣化，但它們顯然需要取得成果，否則你把所有這些錢都投入到位，它們就沒有幫助。因此，存在與之相關的明確的直接銷售或成本。

We also have in our forecast, it's a little different than last year, the mix of our customers changing with some new customers includes customers that today we're engaged in both directly and with local reps in those countries. And they have a commission structure in them that is higher upfront than later. So we have a pretty material, I think it's $700,000, $800,000 or so in external commissions on, which would seem to be the same dollars, but it's actually dollars that are bought by new customers, in new markets or new countries that is kind of messed us up a little bit. But I mean good money spent for sure, but that that's another one.

我們的預測也與去年略有不同，我們的客戶組合與一些新客戶發生了變化，其中包括今天我們直接與這些國家的當地代表合作的客戶。他們的佣金結構比後期更高。所以我們有一個很好的材料，我認為外部佣金是 700,000 美元、800,000 美元左右，這似乎是相同的美元，但實際上是新客戶、新市場或新國家購買的美元，這有點像讓我們有點混亂。但我的意思是肯定花了不少錢，但那是另一回事了。

And then we've got some of the legal things, legal costs that we've talked about with respect to -- I was going to use that code name with the acquisition, right, that are going on. And there's a few other things, just respect to some profit sharing and some other things are slightly different year on year. We do -- we definitely are making investments in R&D this year, both incremental to the, I'll call it the wafer-level burn-in product line, we have to get used to thinking about that. But also we'll be making some incremental investments in the package part.

然後我們有一些法律問題，我們已經討論過的法律成本——我將在收購中使用這個代號，對吧，正在進行的收購。還有其他一些事情，只是關於一些利潤分享，其他一些事情比去年同期略有不同。我們確實——今年我們肯定會在研發方面進行投資，這都是增量投資，我稱之為晶圓級老化產品線，我們必須習慣於思考這一點。但我們也會對套件部分進行一些增量投資。

We'll talk more about that roadmap as we close that deal. But some things that were already contemplating and working on. It's interesting, we just did our strat planning last week, and we're looking at the R&D programs. And while things like share of the automated aligner and some enhancements, the silicon carbide roadmaps are pretty much in play.

當我們完成交易時，我們將更多地討論該路線圖。但有些事情已經在考慮和努力了。有趣的是，我們上週剛做了策略規劃，我們正在研究研發計畫。儘管共享自動對準器和一些增強功能等，碳化矽路線圖仍在發揮作用。

I mean we're meeting the customer needs with all the different capabilities that we need. So the bulk of the R&D resources this year are all in the other markets that we've talked about in pure execution against some things against the GaN guys, the hard disk drive, the flash memory side of things, and the AI. and all kind of incremental to our platform. So nothing like boil the ocean, but it's kind of fun to watch as being able to start putting more energy behind these other markets.

我的意思是，我們正在透過我們所需的所有不同功能來滿足客戶需求。因此，今年的大部分研發資源都集中在其他市場，我們在純粹的執行中談到了針對 GaN 人員的一些事情，包括硬碟、快閃記憶體方面和人工智慧。以及我們平台的各種增量。因此，沒有什麼比煮沸海洋更好的了，但看到能夠開始為這些其他市場投入更多精力是很有趣的。

Got it. And then we'll add that begs I guess my final question. So given these changes, as you start to grow in these other areas, how do you see has there been a shift in. I would assume that once you cover those incremental investments, you'll have a contribution margin that drops. How does that leverage look? Is it added $80 million or $100 million? How do you how are you thinking about getting back to and that 20% operating margin or above.

知道了。然後我們會補充說，我想這是我的最後一個問題。因此，考慮到這些變化，當你開始在這些其他領域成長時，你如何看待發生了轉變。這個槓桿看起來怎麼樣？是增加8000萬美元還是1億美元？您如何考慮恢復 20% 或以上的營業利潤率？

Without adding new eye view and you guys have created your models on there. If you were to think that our OpEx is approximately the same going forward this year, so it makes it like -- it went up, but our revenues didn't go up. I think we put the infrastructure in place, majority to be able to continue to grow and get back to our $100 million-plus run rate that we were on without incremental expenses. So I mean, I would be careful ratcheting it down, but if you were to look at similar gross margins and then just incremental revenue, you can draw a line and connect the dots as to when we get back to 20%, 25%-plus net profits pre-tax.

無需添加新的眼睛視圖，你們就已經在那裡創建了模型。如果你認為今年我們的營運支出大致相同，那麼它會增加，但我們的收入並沒有增加。我認為我們將基礎設施落實到位，主要是為了能夠繼續成長並恢復到 1 億美元以上的運行速度，而無需增加費用。所以我的意思是，我會小心地降低它，但如果你看看類似的毛利率，然後只是增量收入，你可以畫一條線，把各個點連接起來，看看我們什麼時候回到20% 、25%——加上稅前淨利。

Got it. I'll jump back in the queue. I appreciate it. Thank you.

知道了。我會跳回到隊列中。我很感激。謝謝。

Jon Gruber, Gruber McBaine.

喬恩‧格魯伯，格魯伯‧麥克貝恩。

John, that's you. He just missed out, your name was mispronounced your name a little bit.

約翰，就是你。他只是錯過了，你的名字有點念錯了。

Yeah. I mean, a good presentation, a lot of prospects, but what I don't understand is with the acquisition, all these prospects, flash memory 30% in new things, but the disk drives, why is there no revenue growth, including the acquisitions?

是的。我的意思是，一個很好的演示，很多前景，但我不明白的是，隨著收購，所有這些前景，閃存在新事物中佔30%，但磁碟機，為什麼沒有收入增長，包括收購？

Yes, I think you're getting it right. I mean, I think and Jeff and I put some numbers together, and that's probably not a bad model think about. It's really about the the pushouts that we saw with respect to silicon carbide ramps on that things. We were expecting people to be coming in pretty strong and done is that right alone nation on. And we're just looking at soft forecast right now. And we have multiple customers in our forecast that are going to buy one or two systems and not a lot of big ones.

是的，我認為你說得對。我的意思是，我認為傑夫和我將一些數字放在一起，這可能不是一個糟糕的模型。這實際上是關於我們看到的關於碳化矽坡道的推出。我們預期人們會非常強大，而這正是這個國家唯一要做的事。我們現在只關注軟預測。我們預測有多個客戶將購買一兩個系統，而不是許多大型系統。

So our key customers themselves, for example. if you just look at the big silicon carbide guy, so let's just back up. So I'm not talking about my customers in general but or who they are. But I think if you look at the top-four silicon carbide customers, they all guided down this year. And so yes, there have been people that are we were wondering how bad it was going to be for us and can we even continue to maintain our growth while they're having a soft year followed by a strong year. So I think we're -- it's the right thing to do right now is to communicate it. If we see strength in the second half come in harder than we are currently conservatively forecasting, then we'll guide up at that time.

例如，我們的主要客戶本身。如果你只看那個碳化矽大傢伙，那麼讓我們退後一下。所以我不是說我的一般客戶，而是他們是誰。但我認為，如果你看看前四大碳化矽客戶，他們今年的業績都出現下滑。所以，是的，有人想知道這對我們來說會有多糟糕，我們甚至可以在他們經歷疲軟的一年和強勁的一年的同時繼續保持我們的成長。所以我認為我們現在要做的正確的事情就是溝通它。如果我們看到下半年的力量比我們目前保守預測的更強勁，那麼我們將在那時指導。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay. Thanks, John.

好的。謝謝，約翰。

Matt Winthrop, Equitable.

馬特‧溫思羅普，《公平》。

Hey, hey, guys. How are you doing, Gayn?

嘿，嘿，夥計們。你好嗎，蓋恩？

I'm good. Thanks, Matt.

我很好。謝謝，馬特。

Sort of on a global basis, I have never seen a company turn or you turn as excited 180 degrees from how gallery you were the last two calls. Is there anything you could put your finger, what our cycle shorter were you guys, super Lucky had a lot of things in the fire that all started to turn? What do you -- what do you attribute that sort of much more upbeat and such a rapid and sort of positive at least potentially positive outlook going forward?

在全球範圍內，我從未見過一家公司發生轉變，也從未見過你從前兩次電話中表現得如此興奮的 180 度轉變。有什麼你可以指點一下的嗎，我們的週期比你們短多了，超級幸運有很多東西都在火中開始轉動？您認為這種更樂觀、如此迅速且積極的至少潛在積極的前景是什麼？

Jeez, Matt, I feel like I'm always a pretty optimistic and upbeat guy. (multiple speakers) Well, I mean, that's kind of weird. And I know you mean that professionally not on a personal level. But I'll just say on a personal level, I feel like in January and February, we had customers when we forecasted last year, we were -- our forecast was bigger than what we told you guys. Okay. Not that anyone thought [$100 billion] was conservative, but I did.

天哪，馬特，我覺得我一直是一個非常樂觀和樂觀的人。 （多個發言者）嗯，我的意思是，這有點奇怪。我知道你的意思是專業層面的，而不是個人層面的。但我只想說，在個人層面上，我覺得在一月和二月，當我們去年預測時，我們就有了客戶，我們的預測比我們告訴你們的要大。好的。並不是說有人認為 [1000 億美元] 是保守的，但我確實這麼認為。

We have these customers that were anticipating those fabs going. And then by the time we got to November and December, you started to see some of the wheels getting wobbly and people are kind of scared and they just held. We absolutely were completed benchmarks are finished with people that we thought would have been buying two, three, four months ago and they just pushed out. And it just sort of seeing a lot of these things are.

我們有這些客戶期待這些晶圓廠的投產。然後到了 11 月和 12 月，你開始看到一些輪子開始搖晃，人們有點害怕，但他們只是堅持了下來。我們絕對完成了基準測試，我們認為我們在兩、三個、四個月前會購買的人已經完成了，但他們剛剛退出了。它只是看到了很多這樣的事情。

If you look at the kind of technology adoption cycle, I can draw. But if I can draw everyone's mind, you're going up this hill, it actually accelerates a little bit, then it turns over and goes down. It turns around again. And then goes up strong. That sort of technology adoption cycle has existed in a lot of different things. And when you turn down that first time, it's pretty scary. And people are like oh, gosh, that's yes, we went from -- a year-and-a-half ago, our entire business model was built around the crazy idea of the things that was driving the silicon carbide, and it wasn't always about silicon carbide. But that 30% of EV -- 30% of automobiles in 2030 would be be EVs or $30 million.

如果你看看技術採用週期的類型，我就能下結論。但如果我能引起大家的注意，你在爬這座山，它實際上會加速一點，然後它就會翻轉並下降。它又轉過來了。然後強勢上漲。這種技術採用週期已經存在於許多不同的事物中。當你第一次拒絕時，這是非常可怕的。人們就像哦，天哪，是的，我們從一年半前開始，我們的整個商業模式都是圍繞著驅動碳化矽的瘋狂想法而建立的，而事實並非如此。但到 2030 年，電動車的 30%（30%）將是電動車，即 3,000 萬美元。

At that time, people were like come on, is that even possible or not. By around fall, people were saying, oh, it's going to be way higher than that way sooner than that, which we never repeated. It was as if everybody and their brother was going to be driving an EV. But we didn't buy into that because we are looking at the fabs, I'm looking at the ground and there's dirt and there's they're not putting that fab in yet, but people were talking about it with such enthusiasm, and even our customers were starting to get us excited. And then they went to the opposite, like oh gloom has to do everyone's gloomy.

當時人們就想，得了吧，這到底是可能還是不可能。到了秋天左右，人們說，哦，很快就會比這個水平高得多，但我們從未重複過這種情況。就好像每個人和他們的兄弟都會駕駛電動車一樣。但我們並沒有相信這一點，因為我們正在看晶圓廠，我正在看地面，那裡有泥土，他們還沒有把那個晶圓廠放進去，但人們正在以如此熱情的方式談論它，甚至我們的客戶開始讓我們興奮不已。然後他們去了對面，就像哦，陰鬱必須讓每個人都陰鬱。

The reality is they're not you go and you talk to and we have the opportunity, which is the first time in my whole career, I'm talking to my customers' customer or if you call OEMs, the tier ones' customer, if you're in the automotive. Okay, we're actually the customer's customer's customer. Sitting with them face-to-face, talking about burn-in times and quality and reliability.

現實是，他們不是你去交談的，我們有機會，這是我整個職業生涯中的第一次，我正在與客戶的客戶交談，或者如果你打電話給原始設備製造商，一級客戶的客戶，如果你在汽車產業。好吧，我們實際上是客戶的客戶的客戶。與他們面對面坐在一起，討論老化時間以及品質和可靠性。

And Gary, talking about multiple companies, burn-in times and test times and things not because I'm sharing anything, I can guarantee to thoroughly there. But they're really trying to drive for higher quality and higher burn in, and yield through the market and some of those players are going to start building their own silicon or silicon carbide in this case to drive for their own quality requirements. Very interesting.

加里，談論多家公司、老化時間和測試時間之類的事情並不是因為我正在分享任何東西，我可以保證徹底地做到這一點。但他們確實在努力推動市場實現更高的品質、更高的老化和產量，在這種情況下，其中一些參與者將開始製造自己的矽或碳化矽，以滿足自己的品質要求。很有意思。

You see these people and you see their roadmap, and they're putting in place massive factories. And by the way, way more so outside the US than the US. US is really kind of its own thing. And the market penetration is going to end up being less than you'll see in Korea and Europe and certainly China, but even in Japan. Where you start talking to the big cap Japan OEMs as we have, the Korean OEMs have as we have, the China OEMs as we have, the European OEMs as we have, you can see through their eyes, this is serious.

你看到這些人，你看到他們的路線圖，他們正在建造大型工廠。順便說一句，在美國以外的地區比在美國更是如此。美國確實有自己的特色。市場滲透率最終將低於韓國和歐洲，當然還有中國，甚至日本。當你開始與像我們一樣的大日本原始設備製造商、像我們一樣的韓國原始設備製造商、像我們一樣的中國原始設備製造商、像我們一樣的歐洲原始設備製造商談話時，你可以透過他們的眼睛看到，這是嚴重的。

It's not going to be 30% tomorrow, but EVs are certainly coming. And that gives me reason to believe that we will be okay, and that our business is going to be strong and more and more data to support why you need long wafer-level burn-in test times. I continue to get reminded of that, including news, even the last few days again.

明天不會達到 30%，但電動車肯定會到來。這讓我有理由相信我們會沒事的，我們的業務將會強勁，越來越多的數據可以支援為什麼您需要較長的晶圓級老化測試時間。我不斷地想起這一點，包括新聞，甚至是最近幾天的事。

On top of that, our whole some story, if you will, is about semiconductors growing from $600 billion to over $1 trillion by the end of the decade. More and more semiconductors need reliability tests because in reality, they have -- they're not getting more reliable compound semiconductors. Nobody was using compound semiconductors like their data what was silicon carbide gallium nitride the elements putting into optical, they only burn-in. More and more memory stack memory, HBM memory, flash memory going SSDs, processors, AI processors, they all need to be burnt in, because they're going into applications where the reliability is not good enough for them to last long term.

最重要的是，如果你願意的話，我們的整個故事是關於半導體在本世紀末從 6000 億美元增長到超過 1 兆美元的。越來越多的半導體需要可靠性測試，因為實際上，他們沒有得到更可靠的化合物半導體。沒有人使用化合物半導體，就像他們的數據一樣，碳化矽氮化鎵這些元素放入光學元件中，它們只是老化。越來越多的記憶體堆疊記憶體、HBM 記憶體、快閃記憶體、SSD、處理器、AI 處理器，它們都需要進行燒錄，因為它們將進入可靠性不足以長期持續的應用。

And as people go to heterogeneous integration or multichip modules or whatever you want to call it, it was driving for wafer-level burn-in. And now we even see it's beyond that, even with the package challenges that's going on with the AI. So yeah, you're reading into it until he asked at (inaudible) really good spot. That's not temporary. This is an upward draft where we saw softness. We're going to be fine. We have highly differentiated sought-after products.

隨著人們轉向異質整合或多晶片模組或任何你想稱之為的東西，它正在推動晶圓級老化。現在我們甚至看到它超出了這個範圍，即使人工智慧正在面臨一系列挑戰。所以是的，你正在閱讀它，直到他在（聽不清楚）真正的好地方詢問。這不是暫時的。這是一個向上的氣流，我們看到了柔軟度。我們會沒事的。我們擁有高度差異化的廣受歡迎的產品。

And we have certainly have the manufacturing capacity inventory that will meet those dates. And so yes, I think we're going to do well.

我們當然擁有滿足這些日期的製造能力庫存。所以，是的，我認為我們會做得很好。

That my friend is a fantastic answer. Keep people on plug and we'll keep watching. I appreciate everything you do.

我的朋友是一個很棒的答案。讓人們保持聯繫，我們將繼續關注。我很感激你所做的一切。

Thanks, Matt.

謝謝，馬特。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tom Diffely, D.A. Davidson.

湯姆·迪夫利，D.A.戴維森。

Yes, good afternoon and thanks for the question. Gayn, curious when you look at the book of business, you had a year ago when there was $100 million you thought you'd get for the year versus where you are today. I assume most of that was silicon carbide and a lot of that's been pushed out. So I guess the first part of the question is how far of some of these programs have been delayed or pushed out? And obviously some of them look like they're about a year behind schedule. And then the second part of the question is, have they all been pushed out or if some of them being canceled?

是的，下午好，謝謝你的提問。 Gayn，當你查看商業書籍時，你會感到好奇，一年前你認為今年可以獲得 1 億美元，而現在卻是這樣。我認為其中大部分是碳化矽，其中許多已被淘汰。所以我想問題的第一部分是其中一些計劃被推遲或推遲了多少？顯然，其中一些看起來比計劃晚了大約一年。那麼問題的第二部分是，它們是全部被推出還是其中一些被取消？

Yes. So okay. So it feels like mostly pushed out. I don't know if I hit that -- I like the way you phrased it because as you remember. I'm good at remembering what I thought at the time. If I were looking at my forecast and my funnel last year, I had died three big guys that were all planning to be buying in the Spring, two new ones and more from one of our the big lead guys. I'm sorry, four big guys.

是的。那麼好吧。所以感覺大部分都被推出來了。我不知道我是否擊中了這一點——我喜歡你的措辭方式，因為正如你所記得的那樣。我很擅長記住當時的想法。如果我查看去年的預測和漏斗，我會發現三個大佬都計劃在春季購買，其中兩個是新的，還有更多來自我們的一位大佬。對不起，四個大佬。

One of them struggled to build some products. Another one ended up doing that well with their package part because of the way the customer mix, the other one had some slowdowns, another one the value -- two others actually conscious right there's five, two others were in the midst of evaluations and they didn't end up pulling the trigger because they pushed out their fabs.

其中一位努力開發一些產品。另一個最終因為客戶組合的方式而在他們的套餐部分做得很好，另一個有一些放緩，另一個是價值 - 另外兩個實際上意識到有五個，另外兩個正在評估中，他們最後並沒有因為他們推出晶圓廠而扣下板機。

So I guess that's an obviously, you know, $10 million here, $15 million there and you kind of do this. And so a lot of it just sort of shifted out in time. Every single one of those is still absolutely committed to wafer-level burn-in and modules, and their fab capacities have pushed. What they told the Street and themselves one year ago. It is definitely pushed out from that now. But every one of those fabs is well -- most of those fabs have all been continue to be reiterated and reannounced. I think there are some people that may have pushed this fab out a little bit further.

所以我想這顯然是，你知道，這裡 1000 萬美元，那裡 1500 萬美元，你就這樣做了。所以很多事情只是及時轉移了。其中每一個仍然絕對致力於晶圓級老化和模組，並且它們的晶圓廠產能已經提高。他們一年前告訴華爾街和他們自己的話。現在肯定是被推出了。但這些晶圓廠中的每一個都很好——其中大多數晶圓廠都在繼續重申和重新宣布。我認為有些人可能已經把這家工廠推得更遠了。

So if you look at the OEMs in some cases, some of the big guys like it like Korea, Japan, and Europe, their ramps were always '25, '26. It feels like these early EVs were like soldiers like forward, whatever they call, scouts to test the water. But their big programs are yet to come. And some of those haven't even changed their mind. This is still the exact scale, same schedule they were on but now it's just getting closer. So it feels like to me, that it's about a 1 to 1.5 year push out of most of those guys. And I believe it will come back. The difference is I don't think anybody believes -- no one saying, Oh, it's going to be 60% penetration by the end of the decade. They're back more to the 30% kind of number, which is a lot of systems for us.

因此，如果你看看某些情況下的原始設備製造商，一些大公司喜歡這樣，例如韓國、日本和歐洲，他們的坡道總是「25」、「26」。感覺這些早期的電動車就像士兵一樣向前，無論他們怎麼稱呼，偵察兵來試水。但他們的大型計劃尚未到來。其中一些人甚至沒有改變主意。這仍然是確切的規模，他們的時間表相同，但現在只是越來越接近。所以對我來說，大多數人都需要 1 到 1.5 年的時間。我相信它會回來。不同之處在於，我認為沒有人相信——沒有人說，哦，到本十年末滲透率將達到 60%。他們更多地回到了 30% 的數字，這對我們來說是很多系統。

And then the second question would be you think back to a year ago again, and when you think about the carmakers themselves, are they all still on the silicon carbide path or have some of them decided to stick with silicon a little bit longer?

第二個問題是，你再回想一年前，當你想到汽車製造商本身時，他們是否仍然走在碳化矽道路上，或者其中一些決定再堅持使用矽一段時間？

Yes. So I think it's there are more towards silicon carbide than they were a year ago on. And I can -- yes, I have specific examples of it. I'd be careful of it, but some of the examples where people were like. Well, I'm so a lot of cars, as you know, have more than one engine in it. And if you look at two years ago is very common, people understood that Tesla put the IGBT in the front. And silicon carbide was the first one in the back always. So if you had a single engine. It was silicon carbide. If you had to silicon carbide and IGBT and front. IGBT silicon for everybody else, it's knowing.

是的。所以我認為，與一年前相比，人們對碳化矽的需求更多。我可以——是的，我有具體的例子。我會很小心，但有些例子是人們喜歡的。嗯，正如你所知，我有很多汽車，裡面有不只一台引擎。而如果你看一下兩年前的情況，人們就明白特斯拉把IGBT放在前面了。碳化矽總是排在後面的第一個。所以如果你有一個引擎。它是碳化矽。如果你不得不碳化矽和IGBT並前面。 IGBT 矽對於其他人來說，這是眾所周知的。

They had different properties, et cetera. My car that I'm driving I have a model has to silicon carbide engines in it, the inverters. So we've heard that more and more from the OEMs, they're actually prefer to just use silicon carbide. And candidly, because costs have come down and availability is up, they can afford to do that.

它們具有不同的屬性等等。我駕駛的汽車有一個型號，裡面裝有碳化矽發動機，即逆變器。因此，我們從原始設備製造商那裡聽到越來越多的消息，他們實際上更願意只使用碳化矽。坦白說，由於成本下降了，可用性提高了，他們有能力這樣做。

There's other things that have that's more under NDAs and stuff I can share, but I believe more and more one things that shocked me when I was in China is how the China OEM guys really talk to silicon carbide with preference. Now they're still models that they're going to have a second engine and IGBT, but it's more and more silicon carbide and all modules as a preference. So I'd say, more conviction to silicon carbide and more to modules than a year ago.

還有其他一些更多的保密協議和我可以分享的東西，但我相信，當我在中國時，越來越讓我震驚的事情是中國 OEM 人員如何真正優先與碳化矽交談。現在他們仍然是配備第二個引擎和 IGBT 的車型，但越來越多地採用碳化矽和所有模組作為首選。所以我想說，與一年前相比，人們對碳化矽和模組更有信心。

Great. I appreciate the perspective and thanks for the time.

偉大的。我很欣賞你的觀點，也感謝你抽出時間。

Thanks, Tom.

謝謝，湯姆。

Christian Schwab, Craig-Hallum.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Great, thanks. I have a quick follow-up, Gayn. We didn't hit China and silicon photonics, whether you expect those to be revenues in fiscal '25 or '26?

萬分感謝。我有一個快速跟進，蓋恩。我們沒有涉及中國和矽光子學，您是否預期這些是 25 財年或 26 財年的收入？

Okay. Yes. So I think we have forecast for China to (inaudible) I guess I just said it we have forecast for China in this year. Silicon photonics. I think we have some as well, pretty conservative assumptions right now. Look, I don't think we have it assumed to be at 10% this year. Could it be, sure. But the problem with the silicon photonics, at least the optical I/O, is it again, obviously there's more than I can share sites.

好的。是的。所以我認為我們對中國的預測是（聽不清楚）我想我剛剛說過我們對今年的中國進行了預測。矽光子學。我認為我們現在也有一些相當保守的假設。聽著，我認為今年我們並沒有假設這一比例為 10%。可以嗎，當然可以。但矽光子學的問題，至少是光學 I/O 的問題，又出現了，顯然，我無法共享站點。

Job is pretty clean. But those companies that would drive that roadmap hold those cards close to their chest, right? They're not out -- there's no market. It's who you ask -- you tell me what in Nvidia, AMD, Intel is going to do and the other AI processors. And I'll tell you what the optical I/O market will look like and they're not talking publicly about it. So we know a little bit more than we can share.

工作還算乾淨。但那些推動該路線圖的公司將這些牌放在心上，對嗎？他們沒有出局——沒有市場。這是你問的人——你告訴我英偉達、AMD、英特爾以及其他人工智慧處理器將做什麼。我會告訴你光纖 I/O 市場將會是什麼樣子，但他們並沒有公開談論它。所以我們知道的比我們能分享的多一點。

We'll just watch and wait to be careful being the canary to let everybody know what's going on. But if people start announcing optical I/O chip to chip, you can just think to yourself that's good for us. And China right now is all silicon carbide customers. They have GaN II, by the way, their current engagements are our silicon carbide today. Yeah, for China.

我們將只是觀察並等待，小心地成為金絲雀，讓每個人都知道發生了什麼。但如果人們開始宣佈光學 I/O 晶片到晶片，您可以自己想一想這對我們有好處。而中國現在都是碳化矽的客戶。他們有 GaN II，順便說一句，他們目前的業務是我們今天的碳化矽。是的，為了中國。

By the way, for that type of margin. A couple of more things on China, a little bit more color for people. To us, China is not all one market and I know people are listening to this. There are companies that are going to build extensions and do things in China that are say not Chinese companies, right? And they're very protective of their IP and they want to be very careful with it. And so if you sell to them outside of China and they want to build in China, we love those guys, right? That's not the same even though it would be in China tight.

順便說一下，對於這種類型的保證金。多一些關於中國的事情，給人多一點色彩。對我們來說，中國並不完全是一個市場，我知道人們正在傾聽這一點。有些公司將在中國擴展並做一些不是中國公司的事情，對嗎？他們非常保護自己的智慧財產權，並且希望非常小心地對待它。因此，如果你在中國境外向他們銷售產品，而他們想在中國生產，我們會喜歡這些人，對嗎？儘管在中國情況會很緊張，但情況還是不一樣。

Second is that we have companies that are OEMs today that are using our products. Well, they use silicon carbide that's built on our product and they know it. They drive the test times. They know what's going on, et cetera. They have a high preference for our equipment, and they've talked about potentially dual sourcing in China. Well, In that case, they said, hey, we want to use your system because we like the same capabilities and we like those guys a lot as well.

其次，我們現在有一些 OEM 公司正在使用我們的產品。嗯，他們使用基於我們產品構建的碳化矽，他們知道這一點。他們推動測試時間。他們知道發生了什麼，等等。他們對我們的設備非常偏愛，並且談到了在中國進行雙重採購的可能性。好吧，在這種情況下，他們說，嘿，我們想使用你們的系統，因為我們喜歡相同的功能，我們也很喜歡這些人。

There's other companies that are actually building products themselves, think of trains and planes or cars, and they want to build silicon carbide. If I can tell you is those companies are sold currently and so acutely aware of the relationship between burn-in times and quality that they are like, I will dictate a specific burn-in process at a specific quality. It's really important to me. And I like what your system does and it matters. I like those guys, right?

還有其他公司實際上正在自己製造產品，例如火車、飛機或汽車，他們想要製造碳化矽。如果我可以告訴您，這些公司目前已出售，並且非常清楚地了解老化時間與品質之間的關係，那麼我將在特定品質下規定特定的老化過程。這對我來說真的很重要。我喜歡你們的系統所做的事情，這很重要。我喜歡那些傢伙，對嗎？

There's other guys that are saying I want to buy a bunch of systems from you have tried some stuff, locally, I'm not sure how well it works, like how many systems are you talking about. If you want to buy a bunch for me, I like that a lot. It just make me a little nervous about the overall IP concerns there. And then we have companies that I'd like to buy an engineering system yet. We're not interested.

還有其他人說我想從你那裡購買一堆系統，在本地嘗試過一些東西，我不確定它的效果如何，例如你在談論多少個系統。如果你想買一堆，我非常喜歡。這只是讓我對那裡的整體知識產權問題感到有點緊張。然後我們還有一些公司我想買工程系統。我們不感興趣。

There's spread if you're committed to us and you can show us some preference and show us that you're willing to help us protect our IP, even though we have patents all over the place, you get a preferential treatment, if you will. So enough on China. I hope that helps give you a little more clarity there.

如果您對我們忠誠，您可以向我們展示一些偏好，並向我們表明您願意幫助我們保護我們的智慧財產權，即使我們到處都有專利，您也會得到優惠待遇，如果您願意的話。關於中國就夠了。我希望這可以幫助您更清楚地了解這一點。

That does. And then my last question was just I mean to potential clarity. You talked about OpEx being flat and aggregate year over year because you overspent this year, does that include in cow or is that a comment on your business --

確實如此。然後我的最後一個問題只是我想澄清一下。您談到營運支出同比持平且累計，因為您今年超支了，這是否包括在牛中，或者這是對您業務的評論 -

(multiple speakers) I'm sorry, my OpEx this year is higher than last year is what I said. So if you look at the numbers and I think if you just sort of look linear across, you'll find there's maybe $3 million, $3.5 million bucks missing. That's a result of several areas of expenditures. I forgot to throw Chris under the bus a little bit, too, because we're also spending more money on finance and other things that we did for socs compliance and stuff. But we have incremental expenses in R&D. We have a lot of expenses in legal. We have incremental expenses in commissions. We added more people in sales and we have a little bit more finance side of things, and then a sprinkling of some bonuses tied around the company kind of to represent those dollars.

（多名發言者）對不起，我今年的OpEx 比去年高，就是我說的。因此，如果你看一下這些數字，我想如果你只是線性地看一下，你會發現可能缺少 300 萬美元、350 萬美元。這是多個領域支出的結果。我也忘了把克里斯放在公車下，因為我們也在財務和其他我們為社會合規等方面所做的事情上花了更多的錢。但我們在研發方面有增量費用。我們在法律方面有很多費用。我們的佣金費用增加。我們增加了更多的銷售人員，並且增加了一些財務方面的工作，然後在公司周圍增加了一些獎金，以代表這些美元。

Okay. I guess just for clarity,, Gayn, Incal, how much should we assume quarterly?

好的。我想為了清楚起見，Gayn、Incal，我們每季應該假設多少？

We haven't done that yet to go out well.

為了順利走出去，我們還沒有做到這一點。

Right now, the forecast or outlook we have already included them in the calculation in the forecast.

現在，預測或展望我們已經將它們納入預測的計算中。

(multiple speakers) relatively small company. I think we've shared about this before, but as our headcount goes up, there. They have about 24 employees on. They have a lease for next couple of years. That's right down the street from us. And we have talked about synergies. Synergies aren't going to come through people no way we need to -- but overtime, we don't need that second building potentially. Those kind of things. But we're not we don't -- I mean this grounds to trying to do any expense reductions or things like that? No way we're going to spend more money with those guys.

（多個發言者）相對較小的公司。我想我們之前已經分享過這一點，但隨著我們人數的增加，就這樣了。他們大約有 24 名員工。他們有未來幾年的租約。就在我們的街對面。我們也討論了協同效應。協同效應不會以我們需要的方式透過人員實現——但隨著時間的推移，我們可能不需要第二棟建築。諸如此類的事情。但我們不是——我的意思是，這有理由嘗試削減開支或類似的事情嗎？我們絕不會在這些人身上花更多的錢。

Okay. Got it. Got it. Thanks, Gayn. Thanks for the added clarity.

好的。知道了。知道了。謝謝，蓋恩。感謝您的補充。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) Shahar Cohen, Lucid Capital.

（操作員指示）Shahar Cohen，Lucid Capital。

Hi guys. Congrats for the amazing turnaround and the specification into other (inaudible). A question about Incal. So first, how much of their current revenue is from their legacy advantage, sub-manufacturing, if you can disclose. And A, to what there's a normal family, which as I read in the websites, is that the one that's supposed to do the high-Watt testing, is that already used in testing of AI application, and is that already used by NVIDIA and leading to major revenue growth in the last year or so as one should expect? Or do you expect them to grow significantly in 2025 versus 2024 calendar year?

嗨，大家好。恭喜您取得了驚人的轉變並規範了其他內容（聽不清楚）。關於印卡爾的問題。首先，如果你可以透露的話，他們目前的收入有多少來自他們的傳統優勢，即次級製造。 A，對於一個正常的系列，正如我在網站上讀到的那樣，應該進行高瓦測試，已經用於人工智能應用程序的測試，並且已經被 NVIDIA 和導致去年左右的收入大幅增長，正如人們所期望的那樣？或者您預計 2025 年與 2024 年相比，它們會顯著增長嗎？

Okay. All right, Shahar, you've done your homework. So you're going to make me back up and let people know, try and catch up with you a little bit. All right, so Incal is made up of two sources of revenue. They have a test and burn business, which is made up of really three families of burn-in systems. Low power, medium power, and high power. Their Alpine line of systems is their low power, Tahoe is their mid power, [Sonoma] is high power. They're all fully compatible from a software perspective.

好的。好吧，沙哈爾，你已經完成你的作業了。所以你要讓我支持並讓人知道，試著追上你的腳步。好吧，Incal 有兩個收入來源。他們有測試和燒錄業務，該業務由三個燒機系統系列組成。低功率、中功率、高功率。他們的 Alpine 系列系統是低功率，Tahoe 是中功率，[Sonoma] 是高功率。從軟體角度來看，它們都是完全相容的。

They all have a similar hardware and software architecture, but a very unique platform concept that I think from a tester guide. The Alpine system uses (inaudible) test electronics and power supplies that are shared over multiple burn-in boards and multiple devices on each burn-in board, making it one of the lowest cost, most cost-effective burn-in systems on the market. We struggled to ever compete with that product line before.

它們都有相似的硬體和軟體架構，但我從測試人員指南中想到了一個非常獨特的平台概念。 Alpine 系統使用（聽不清楚）測試電子設備和電源，這些電子設備和電源在多個老化板上以及每個老化板上的多個設備上共享，使其成為市場上成本最低、最具成本效益的老化系統之一。我們以前很難與該產品線競爭。

Their Tahoe system is a mid-power system, candidly similar in many of the features to our old ABTS system or our current ABTS system, but it has power supplies and pin electronics that power each burn-in board for more capability and more power with individual temperature control and amazing software. And Sonoma uses, again, similar pin electronics and power supplies, but per device, allowing them to actually, locally generate extremely high currents within millimeters of the device, very similar to how the application works, which is one of its key differentiators. And that allows them to be able to be used for these really high-powered like AI devices.

他們的Tahoe 系統是一個中功率系統，在許多功能上與我們舊的ABTS 系統或目前的ABTS 系統非常相似，但它具有電源和引腳電子設備，為每個老化板供電，以提供更多功能和更多功率獨立的溫度控制和令人驚嘆的軟體。索諾瑪再次使用類似的引腳電子裝置和電源，但每個設備都允許它們實際上在設備毫米範圍內局部產生極高的電流，與應用程式的工作方式非常相似，這是其關鍵的區別之一。這使得它們能夠用於這些真正高效能的人工智慧設備。

The Sonoma is in fact what has really been growing for them. They have multiple customers on each of their platforms and there is revenue in all three of those segments even within our fiscal year going forward and we're currently committed to meeting the needs of those customers. We have no plans to abandon any of those roadmaps, okay? But Sonoma is where a lot of the road growth is and customers want to pull it into production where we can help them with.

事實上，索諾瑪才是他們真正成長的地方。他們的每個平台上都有多個客戶，即使在我們未來的財政年度內，所有這三個細分市場都有收入，我們目前致力於滿足這些客戶的需求。我們沒有計劃放棄任何這些路線圖，好嗎？但索諾瑪是許多道路成長的地方，客戶希望將其投入生產，我們可以幫助他們。

You mentioned something that we haven't talked about publicly, but I'll go ahead and go mention it. They actually also do some repair business for kind of as a third-party repair authorization. And we haven't talked about that yet. That's something ahead of us. We pulled that out of the revenue from last year. So we didn't talk about how much revenue they did in that business. So the kind of million dollar run rate is without that business.

你提到了一些我們還沒有公開談論過的事情，但我會繼續提一下。他們實際上也做一些維修業務，作為第三方維修授權。我們還沒有討論過這個。這是擺在我們面前的事。我們將其從去年的收入中剔除。所以我們沒有談論他們在這項業務中獲得了多少收入。因此，百萬美元的運作率是沒有這項業務的。

Got you. So thank you very much for the color really helpful. And any more color you can provide on the normal growth rate, maybe that was or may be expected?

明白你了。非常感謝您提供的顏色非常有幫助。您可以提供有關正常成長率的更多顏色，也許這是或可能是預期的？

Yes, we're just going to stay pat on this for right. Now, I mean, and I'm not trying to be super loose. We want to go see all of the customers and be able to build that up. But we'll probably get to more information. In general, also, we don't normally forecast too much going forward on all the different product lines just for competitive reasons, too. But that's the area that I think that we're both companies are most excited about trying to help. Although there's a bunch of Tahoe customers too that are asking for production volumes. So there's the mid-power and high-power systems are pretty interesting, and they've been growing and we would hope that we can help accelerate that growth.

是的，我們將繼續堅持這一點。現在，我的意思是，我並不想變得超級寬鬆。我們希望去拜訪所有客戶並且能夠建立這種聯繫。但我們可能會獲得更多資訊。一般來說，出於競爭原因，我們通常不會對所有不同產品線的未來做出太多預測。但這也是我認為我們兩家公司最樂於提供協助的領域。儘管也有很多太浩客戶要求產量。因此，中功率和高功率系統非常有趣，而且它們一直在成長，我們希望能夠幫助加速這種成長。

All right. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Larry Chlebina, Chlebina Capital.

拉里·切爾比納 (Larry Chlebina)，Chlebina 資本。

Hi, Gayn. Your AI processor job, once you complete that, could that evolve into possibly getting into heterogeneous PC chips, you know, high volume PC chips that are all going heterogeneous?

嗨，蓋恩。你的人工智慧處理器工作，一旦你完成了，它是否會演變成可能進入異構 PC 晶片，你知道，大量的 PC 晶片都將變得異構？

Perhaps, yes. I mean, it's very interesting, the dynamics in the test space that have gone on with the Advent, the system level test, which is highly adapted, designed for test methodologies as well as application specific test methodologies that have really changed the way people look at semiconductor tests. And then with the heterogeneous integration or the idea you take these chiplets and you take all these devices and you put them all together onto even a silicon substrate.

或許，是的。我的意思是，這非常有趣，測試空間中隨著降臨而發生的動態，系統級測試，它是高度適應性的，專為測試方法以及特定於應用程式的測試方法而設計，這些方法確實改變了人們的看法在半導體測試中。然後，透過異質整合或想法，您可以採用這些小晶片，您可以採用所有這些設備，然後將它們全部放在一起，甚至放在矽基板上。

Sometimes a silicon substrate has DRAM in it. It actually has active things inside of it. And you have this multi-chip module, unlike you've ever seen before, made up of a couple of compute processors, four or six stacks of high bandwidth memory, a couple of optical IO, interfaces on it, et cetera.

有時矽基板上有 DRAM。它裡面實際上有活躍的東西。與您以前見過的不同，您擁有這個多晶片模組，它由幾個計算處理器、四或六個高頻寬記憶體堆疊、幾個光學 IO、其上的介面等組成。

And you think each one of those devices I mentioned today has 100% burn-in. Where are you going to do it? You want to do it at the package level when all those pieces are there? The answer is not if you can help it. You want to move all that stuff to die level and wafer is the best way to handle the die. And so, you know, all of this whole topic just gets me excited as a nerdy test guy because that's all good for us.

你認為我今天提到的每一款設備都具有 100% 的老化效果。你要去哪裡做？當所有這些部分都存在時，您想在套件層級執行此操作嗎？答案不是你能不能幫助它。您希望將所有這些東西移動到晶片級，而晶圓是處理晶片的最佳方式。所以，你知道，所有這整個主題讓我作為一個書呆子測試人員感到興奮，因為這對我們來說都是有好處的。

And they bringing on, I keep using their code name, but Incal, to be able to help us because they're doing, you know, the burn-in of those heterogeneous packages, right? I've seen them, you know, it's pretty cool and you're watching what they're doing and I can't help but think, well, boy, maybe we can also help some of this stuff go to wafer level, and if not, we got the package. The beauties all have both.

他們帶來了，我一直使用他們的代號，但是 Incal，能夠幫助我們，因為他們正在做，你知道，那些異質軟體包的老化，對嗎？我見過他們，你知道，這很酷，你正在看著他們在做什麼，我忍不住想，好吧，男孩，也許我們也可以幫助其中一些東西達到晶圓級，並且如果沒有，我們就收到包裹了。美女都是兼具。

That's where I was going next. You got open up the possibility to go wafer level on some of those projects.

那就是我接下來要去的地方。您為其中一些項目提供了進入晶圓級的可能性。

Perhaps, and if not, we got them covered. I mean, it's just way better to be able to say whatever you want, but I just think there is opportunities and you start seeing it all blurring together, you're like, wait a minute, you got this optical IO, wafer level, you got heterogeneous, you know, you've got stacks and stacks of high bandwidth memory. How can we get that to a wafer level? Now you've got a processor that you can put into test modes and do a long cycle burn-in -- in a much more scalable, also lower power mode than at the system level that might not only be an enabler for scale, but you might even be able to get enough electricity to do it.

也許，如果沒有，我們已經覆蓋了它們。我的意思是，能夠說任何你想說的話會更好，但我只是認為有機會，你開始看到這一切都模糊在一起，你就像，等一下，你得到了這個光學IO，晶圓級，你有異質的，你知道，你有堆疊和堆疊的高頻寬記憶體。我們如何才能將其提升到晶圓級？現在您已經有了一個處理器，您可以將其置於測試模式並進行長週期預燒- 在比系統級別更具可擴展性、功耗更低的模式下，這可能不僅是擴展的推動者，而且你甚至可以獲得足夠的電力來完成這項工作。

And you're like, wow, it's a target-rich environment. And being able to go and actually sit down with these companies that are building them for their own use or building them for sale or building them for rent or building, you know, it's exciting.

你會想，哇，這是一個目標豐富的環境。能夠去實際與這些正在建造它們以供自用或建造它們以供出售或建造它們以供出租或建造的公司坐下來，你知道，這是令人興奮的。

Okay, One last question. On the flash memory opportunity, I tried getting you on this at the CEO Summit as, is the opportunity in a new fab or is it possibly in an existing fab since it requires higher power than maybe existing systems can handle.

好的，最後一個問題。關於快閃記憶體機會，我試圖在執行長高峰會上向您介紹這一點，因為它需要比現有系統能夠處理的更高的功率，所以這個機會是在新的晶圓廠中還是可能在現有的晶圓廠中。

This was probably one of the many questions you asked me that I said I can't answer till I answer for everybody, huh?

這可能是你問我的眾多問題之一，我說在我為每個人回答之前我無法回答，對嗎？

You said you were going to answer on the conference call --here we go.

你說過你要在電話會議上回答——讓我們開始吧。

So I think I can see both. Generally speaking, people think about making big changes when it's time to do a new fab, right? So it's an easier cut to think about the new fabs that are coming online between DRAM and Flash over the next you know four, five, six, seven years. However, having spent you know 20 years of my life building memory testers, I -- you know every five years I was replacing the memory tester I sold them five years ago, which sounds crazy, but you get to a point where through parallelism or power or capability you can't even use the old tool.

所以我想我可以看到兩者。一般來說，人們在建造新晶圓廠時會考慮做出重大改變，對吧？因此，更容易考慮在接下來的四年、五年、六年、七年內在 DRAM 和快閃記憶體之間上線的新晶圓廠。然而，我花了 20 年的時間構建內存測試儀，每五年我就會更換五年前出售的內存測試儀，這聽起來很瘋狂，但你會發現，通過並行性或您甚至無法使用舊工具的力量或能力。

And this is true with a lot of ATE systems today. Like, you know, I was part of, you know, HP, Agilent, VeriGY. We're acquired by Avantis. Avantis has the 93,000 platform now that we designed in HP back in the late ‘90s. And today those (inaudible) are fully compatible. People will have -- have made, have hundreds and hundreds of these on their floor, but they'll buy a new board that goes into that machine each year to meet new capabilities. So in some ways, we built our platform similar, like the FOX system.

如今許多 ATE 系統都是如此。就像，你知道，我曾經是惠普、安捷倫、VeriGY 的一員。我們被 Avantis 收購了。 Avantis 現在擁有 93,000 平台，這是我們在 20 世紀 90 年代末在 HP 設計的。今天，這些（聽不清楚）完全相容。人們已經在他們的地板上製造了數百個這樣的板，但他們每年都會購買一塊新板，放入該機器中以滿足新的功能。因此，在某些方面，我們建構了類似的平台，就像 FOX 系統一樣。

The FOX, the very first FOX system we built was for flash memory, right? And people that know our history know that at the time it was like we were too small and a little too risky and Along came a couple of companies that said, you know what, we're willing to look the other way on your risk because what you have is novel and unique and I need it.

FOX，我們建造的第一個 FOX 系統是針對快閃記憶體的，對嗎？了解我們歷史的人都知道，當時我們規模太小，風險也太大了，後來有幾家公司說，你知道嗎，我們願意對你的風險視而不見，因為你擁有的東西新穎而獨特，我需要它。

One of them happened to be one of the biggest phone manufacturer in the world for facial recognition. And another one was what now is the biggest silicon photonics company in the world for their platform. That part laid into multiple different customers, multiple different applications, silicon carbide, now GaN, and these other applications where people are interested in using it, but memory is still a core target for us and we think that we can get into that.

其中之一恰好是世界上最大的臉部辨識手機製造商之一。另一個是現在世界上最大的矽光子公司的平台。這部分涉及多個不同的客戶、多個不同的應用、碳化矽、現在的 GaN 以及人們有興趣使用它的其他應用，但記憶體仍然是我們的核心目標，我們認為我們可以進入這個領域。

My install base, those customers have critical technical needs going forward in their roadmap that is going to require them to make changes. The equipment they have will not work. And at that point we could displace seemingly perfectly good systems in their fabs with new ones that are better. So I think it can be.

我的安裝基礎是，這些客戶在他們的路線圖中有關鍵的技術需求，這將要求他們做出改變。他們擁有的設備將無法運作。到那時，我們可以用更好的新系統取代他們工廠中看似完美的系統。所以我認為可以。

All right.

好的。

Thanks, Gayn. Have a good night.

謝謝，蓋恩。祝你晚安。

Thanks, Larry.

謝謝，拉里。

There are no further questions in queue.

隊列中沒有其他問題。

All right, folks, thank you very much. I know that we ran a little longer than normal. We really appreciate everyone's time. We'll figure out how to make these as concise as possible as our story is no longer focused on a narrow market or two and a couple of new customers. So we'll find our way to be able to be able to summarize and make it easier to digest. But we're really excited about this, excited to head into the new year. And we welcome our new friends from Incal. We are throwing a lunch for a couple of days, and we're excited to host them to come over and meet the crew, and we'll keep you guys updated on a quarterly basis. Have a good one and take care.

好的，各位，非常感謝你們。我知道我們跑的時間比平常長一些。我們非常感謝大家的時間。我們將弄清楚如何盡可能讓這些內容簡潔，因為我們的故事不再專注於一兩個狹窄的市場和幾個新客戶。因此，我們將找到能夠進行總結並使其更容易消化的方法。但我們對此感到非常興奮，興奮地進入新的一年。我們歡迎來自 Incal 的新朋友。我們將舉辦幾天的午餐，我們很高興接待他們過來與工作人員見面，我們將每季向大家通報最新情況。祝你過得愉快並保重。

This concludes today's conference and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束，您現在可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與。