XP Inc (XP) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone. I'm Andre Parize, IRO at XP Inc. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

大家晚上好。我是 XP Inc. 的 IRO Andre Parize。

On behalf of the company, I'd like to thank you all for the interest and welcome you to our 2024 second-quarter earnings call. This quarter, the results will be presented by our CEO, Thiago Maffra; and our CFO, Victor Mansur, who will both be available for the Q&A session right after the presentation. (Event Instructions)

我謹代表公司感謝大家的關注，並歡迎您參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。本季度，我們的執行長蒂亞戈·馬夫拉 (Thiago Maffra) 將公佈業績；我們的財務長 Victor Mansur 將在演示結束後立即參加問答環節。（活動須知）

And before we begin our presentation, please refer to our legal disclaimers on page 2, on which we clarify forward-looking statements. Additional information on forward-looking statements can also be found on the SEC Filings section of the IR website.

在我們開始示範之前，請參閱第 2 頁的法律免責聲明，我們在其中澄清了前瞻性陳述。有關前瞻性陳述的更多資訊也可以在 IR 網站的 SEC 文件部分找到。

So now, I will turn it over to Thiago Maffra. Good evening, Maffra.

所以現在，我將把它交給蒂亞戈·馬夫拉。晚上好，馬夫拉。

Thank you, Andre. Good evening to all. I appreciate everyone joining us for our 2024 second-quarter earnings call. It's a pleasure to be here tonight.

謝謝你，安德烈。大家晚上好。我感謝大家參加我們的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。今晚很高興來到這裡。

Let's delve into our quarterly performance and discuss the strategic steps we are undertaking to ensure our continued growth and education to all shareholders. I would also like to extend a warm welcome to Victor Mansur, our new CFO, as this is his first earnings call with us. We are excited to have him on board and look forward to his contributions to our financial strategy and operations.

讓我們深入研究我們的季度業績，並討論我們正在採取的策略步驟，以確保我們的持續成長和對所有股東的教育。我還要熱烈歡迎我們的新任財務長 Victor Mansur，因為這是他與我們的第一次財報電話會議。我們很高興他加入，並期待他為我們的財務策略和營運做出貢獻。

This quarter has been positive for XP. We have showcased our ability to generate alpha and achieve growth with profitability by managing several business levers independently from the challenging conditions. Our total client assets have increased by 14% year over year, reaching BRL1.2 trillion. More importantly, we have observed a re-acceleration in our client net inflow this quarter, details of which we will elaborate on during the presentation.

本季 XP 表現良好。我們已經展示了我們透過在充滿挑戰的條件下獨立管理多個業務槓桿來創造阿爾法並實現盈利增長的能力。我們的客戶總資產年增 14%，達到 1.2 兆雷亞爾。更重要的是，我們觀察到本季客戶淨流入再次加速，我們將在演示中詳細闡述細節。

We have also set a new record in the total number of advisors, reaching 18,300, and continued to expand Brazil's largest investment specialized sales force, growing 11% year over year. Finally, we ended with 4.6 million active clients, marking a 16% increase year over year.

我們的顧問總數也創下了新紀錄，達到18,300人，並繼續擴大巴西最大的投資專業銷售隊伍，較去年同期成長11%。最後，我們的活躍客戶數量達到 460 萬，年增 16%。

We had our all-time high in revenue, EBT, and net income. Gross revenue was BRL4.5 billion for the quarter, up 21% year over year; an EBT of BRL1.4 billion, 43% higher year over year; and BRL1.1 billion in net income, with a margin of 26%. This result reinforces and gives us comfort that we are on track to deliver our gross revenue and EBT margin guidance in 2026. We will go into more details on the financials later on.

我們的收入、息稅前利潤和淨利潤均創歷史新高。該季度總營收為 45 億雷亞爾，年增 21%；息稅前利潤 (EBT) 達 14 億雷亞爾，年增 43%；淨利11億雷亞爾，利潤率為26%。這項結果讓我們更加確信，我們預計在 2026 年實現總收入和息稅前利潤率指引。稍後我們將詳細介紹財務狀況。

In terms of balance and profitability, we closed the quarter with a return on tangible equity of 27.2%, the highest in the past 2.5 years. XP's managerial BIS was at 20.5% level. The EPS for Q2 2024 was BRL2.03 per share, a 10% increase year over year, partially reflecting the share buyback that we have completed in the second quarter, aligned with our capital return plan to create value to shareholders. On the back of so many levers that we have been implementing for growth and with strict cost control, as it has been the case, we do are expecting improving results for the second half.

在平衡性和獲利能力方面，本季末我們的有形股本回報率為 27.2%，為過去 2.5 年來的最高水準。XP的管理BIS處於20.5%的水準。2024年第二季的每股盈餘為每股2.03雷亞爾，年成長10%，部分反映了我們在第二季完成的股票回購，與我們為股東創造價值的資本回報計畫一致。在我們一直實施的眾多成長槓桿和嚴格的成本控制的支持下，我們確實預計下半年的業績會有所改善。

Moving on to the next slide, we'll look at our strategy tracker, reminding here the main levers of business growth. We'll dig deeper in each of them. Also, we'd like to highlight our gross revenue and EBT margin.

轉到下一張投影片，我們將查看我們的策略追蹤器，在此提醒業務成長的主要槓桿。我們將深入研究它們中的每一個。此外，我們也想強調一下我們的總收入和息稅前利潤率。

If you remember our Investor Day back in December, we have shown our last 12 months gross revenue as BRL14.8 billion. And since then, we have increased our gross revenue to BRL17.4 billion LTM, with an implied 25% CAGR. In order to reach the top of the guidance, we need, from now on, a 19% CAGR until 4Q '26. Regarding our LTM EBT margin, we have reached 28.1%, a 180 bps expansion compared to our third-quarter 2023 LTM figures, indicating that we are in the right pace to reach the 30% to 34% target range in 2026.

如果您還記得 12 月的投資者日，我們顯示過去 12 個月的總收入為 148 億雷亞爾。自那時起，我們的總收入已增至 174 億雷亞爾（LTM），隱含複合年增長率為 25%。為了達到指導的最高點，從現在開始，到 2026 年第四季度，我們需要實現 19% 的複合年增長率。關於我們的LTM EBT 利潤率，我們已達到28.1%，與2023 年第三季的LTM 數據相比，增長了180 個基點，這表明我們正以正確的速度在2026 年達到30% 至34% 的目標範圍。

Now, starting with retail investments, in this slide, our goal is to establish ourselves as leaders in investments, which is our core business. As highlighted in the first slide, a key achievement this quarter was the improvement of net new money. We record BRL32 billion in net new money for the quarter, with BRL24 billion coming from retail. This means that in retail, we nearly doubled quarter over quarter.

現在，從零售投資開始，在這張投影片中，我們的目標是將自己打造為投資領域的領導者，這是我們的核心業務。正如第一張投影片所強調的，本季的一項關鍵成就是淨新資金的改善。我們記錄本季淨新增資金為 320 億雷亞爾，其中 240 億雷亞爾來自零售業。這意味著在零售業，我們季度較上季成長了近一倍。

We attribute this improvement to several factors, but primarily, we believe this improvement is a result of effectively executing the levers we control. These levers include: first, product platform, the largest investment platform in Brazil, which continues to be a major differentiator to our constant innovation.

我們將這種改進歸因於幾個因素，但首先，我們相信這種改進是有效執行我們控制的槓桿的結果。這些槓桿包括：第一，產品平台，巴西最大的投資平台，這仍然是我們不斷創新的主要優勢。

And in this environment, our fixed income platform is expected to maintain its protagonism in the market. And part of this competitive edge is related to our efforts in structuring and warehousing new assets for retail distribution through our wholesale banking.

而在這種環境下，我們的固定收益平台可望維持其在市場上的主角地位。這種競爭優勢的部分原因在於我們透過批發銀行業務為零售分銷建構和倉儲新資產的努力。

Second, diversification and expansion of channel, few years ago, we launched the internal advisors model, becoming a dual-distribution channel business. And today, as we speak, we evolved to a multi-channel distribution, with IFAs, internal advisors, consultants through our RIA channel, and the digital channel.

第二，通路多元化和拓展，幾年前，我們推出了內部顧問模式，成為雙通路業務。今天，正如我們所說，我們已經發展為多通路分銷，包括 IFA、內部顧問、透過 RIA 管道和數位管道提供諮詢的顧問。

At the same time that we have been growing our IFA channel, we already have around 2,000 internal advisors and 1,000 RIAs. Our RIA channel, for example, already represents 10% or more than 100 billion of our total client assets. All the new channels combined represent around 50% of our total retail client assets.

在我們不斷發展 IFA 管道的同時，我們已經擁有約 2,000 名內部顧問和 1,000 名 RIA。例如，我們的 RIA 管道已經占我們客戶總資產的 10% 或超過 1000 億。所有新通路合計約占我們零售客戶總資產的 50% 左右。

Third, focus on productivity, through our empowering tools for advisors, such as the HUB, XP Academy, and the provision of data and intelligence to the sales force, ensuring their long-term success.

第三，透過我們為顧問提供的授權工具（例如 HUB、XP Academy）以及向銷售人員提供數據和情報，專注於生產力，確保他們的長期成功。

Lastly, it's worth mentioning the continuous evolution of the company's mindset, transitioning from a product distribution firm to a service provider. This shift permeates all areas, including the entire sales force, aligning with our quality initiative and financial planning, catalyzed by open investments and now our cross-selling initiatives.

最後，值得一提的是公司理念的不斷演變，從產品分銷公司轉變為服務提供者。這種轉變滲透到所有領域，包括整個銷售隊伍，與我們的品質計劃和財務規劃相一致，並受到開放投資和現在的交叉銷售計劃的催化。

We are leading multiple initiatives and products to master our clients' financial needs. Cross-sell, it's especially important because it enhances our investor client experience, and clients with more products other than investments present a lift in LTV. For instance, clients with credit card principality have shown a 13-percentage-point lower churn per year, and they bring 7% more custody per year than a similar client without a credit card principality.

我們正在主導多項措施和產品來滿足客戶的財務需求。交叉銷售尤其重要，因為它可以增強我們的投資者客戶體驗，並且擁有投資以外更多產品的客戶可以提高生命週期價值。例如，擁有信用卡主體的客戶每年的流失率降低了 13 個百分點，與沒有信用卡主體的類似客戶相比，他們每年帶來的託管量增加了 7%。

On the right, we have showcased our growth in some of these new verticals, despite still having a low penetration rate. Out of the cross-selling products, our credit card is the most penetrated so far, but still with a 20% penetration, and we do have plans to expand this offering further in our client base.

在右側，我們展示了我們在一些新垂直領域的成長，儘管滲透率仍然較低。在交叉銷售產品中，我們的信用卡迄今為止滲透率最高，但滲透率仍為 20%，而且我們確實計劃在我們的客戶群中進一步擴展此產品。

Another business that presents an opportunity ahead is insurance. We are currently less than 2% penetrated, and we expect to grow three to four times over the next years. Still, our total written premiums have seen a 52% increase year over year, reaching BRL307 million in the quarter.

另一項提供機會的業務是保險。目前我們的滲透率不到 2%，預計未來幾年將成長三到四倍。儘管如此，我們的承保保費總額仍年增 52%，本季達到 3.07 億雷亞爾。

On retirement plans, we keep presenting market share gains, growing our client assets by 18% year over year, but a 5% market share, and also a 5% penetration. Combined FX, global investments, and digital account grew 51% year over year, with BRL104 million in revenues this quarter, and we have a clear plan for each one of them to keep growing.

在退休計畫方面，我們持續呈現市佔率成長，客戶資產年增 18%，但市佔率為 5%，滲透率也為 5%。外匯、全球投資和數位帳戶合計年增 51%，本季營收達到 1.04 億雷亞爾，我們對每一項都制定了明確的持續成長計畫。

And finally, the corporate and SMB, we have been able to maximize our corporate and SMB clients by leveraging the relationship built with our network of advisors and our investment banking business. We have reached more than 60,000 active clients. It's important to highlight that corporate and SMB client base grew 22% year over year, and we continue to improve penetration with FX, derivatives, and loans.

最後，對於企業和中小企業，我們能夠利用與我們的顧問網絡和投資銀行業務建立的關係，最大限度地擴大我們的企業和中小企業客戶。我們已經擁有超過 60,000 名活躍客戶。需要強調的是，企業和中小企業客戶群年增了 22%，我們繼續提高外匯、衍生性商品和貸款的滲透率。

It's worth mentioning that in derivatives, we improved from 10th to 5th position during the last two years. And on FX, we also improved, moving from 41st to 16th ranking position during the last four years. As a result, we have been able to grow corporate gross revenue by 50% CAGR second quarter '24 last 12 months, versus third quarter '23 last 12 months, when we held our Investor Day.

值得一提的是，在衍生性商品領域，過去兩年我們的排名從第十名上升到了第五名。在外匯方面，我們的排名也有所提高，在過去四年中從第 41 位上升到第 16 位。因此，在過去 12 個月的 24 年第二季度，我們的企業總收入複合年增長率為 50%，而過去 12 個月的 23 年第三季度，我們舉辦了投資者日。

We have just launched the corporate digital account in August, and we'll launch trade finance soon, reinforcing our cross-sell opportunities for the next years. Victor will give more details about the revenue growth.

我們剛剛在八月推出了企業數位帳戶，我們很快就會推出貿易融資，以加強我們未來幾年的交叉銷售機會。維克多將提供有關收入成長的更多詳細資訊。

Now, I will hand it over to Victor so he can discuss this quarter's financials. Thank you.

現在，我將把它交給維克多，以便他可以討論本季的財務狀況。謝謝。

Thanks, Maffra. Good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you. As this is my first earnings call, before I go to the second-quarter numbers, I think it would be interesting to share three pillars we are focused on for the years to come.

謝謝，馬夫拉。大家晚上好。很高興和你在一起。由於這是我的第一次財報電話會議，在討論第二季數據之前，我認為分享我們未來幾年關注的三個支柱會很有趣。

First, a short-term objective, our corporate restructuring. As you know, we have a bank in our ecosystem, and having a bank can provide us higher leverage and lower costs. At the same time, we can structure new products. To get all the benefits of having a bank in the ecosystem, we have started a corporate organization last year to have XP Bank as the parent company in Brazil when completed. This will provide lower cost of capital by increasing our ability to issue Tier 1 and Tier 2 debt. The process, if the Central Bank is flowing, is expected, and we should have it completed by the end of the year.

第一，短期目標，我們的企業重組。大家知道，我們的生態系統中有一家銀行，擁有銀行可以提供我們更高的槓桿和更低的成本。同時，我們可以建立新產品。為了獲得生態系統中銀行的所有好處，我們去年成立了一個公司組織，完成後將 XP Bank 作為巴西的母公司。這將提高我們發行一級和二級債務的能力，從而降低資本成本。如果央行正在實施，這個過程是預期的，我們應該會在年底前完成。

Second, a midterm objective, our guidance delivery. EBT margin expansion should come through new products increasing profitability, as they evolve in the ecosystem, coupled with a strict cost discipline, without harming innovation, which is part of our DNA.

第二，中期目標，我們的指導交付。EBT 利潤率的擴張應該透過新產品在生態系統中的發展來提高獲利能力，加上嚴格的成本紀律，而不損害創新，這是我們 DNA 的一部分。

And third, a long-term objective, capital allocation. We understand that having a continuous capital management through disciplined capital allocation and return capital to shareholders is key for our long-term goals. XP is a profitable company, generates cash, and does not need to reinvest 100% of its profits to grow. Capital allocation decisions are based on ROE, profitability, and connection for a long-term strategy. The combination of these initiatives should lead to higher returns going forward.

第三，長期目標，資本配置。我們知道，透過嚴格的資本分配和向股東返還資本來進行持續的資本管理是我們實現長期目標的關鍵。XP 是一家盈利的公司，能夠產生現金，並且不需要將其 100% 的利潤再投資來實現成長。資本配置決策是基於 ROE、獲利能力和長期策略的連結。這些舉措的結合應該會帶來更高的未來回報。

And now, let's go to the numbers. Total gross revenue grew 21% year over year and 5% quarter over quarter. Once again, XP posted positive performance in capital markets, reflected both in retail, especially fixed income, and corporate issue services. Institutional revenue was slightly lower quarter over quarter. On the right-hand side of the slide, we can see our gross revenue breakdown. And the trend is still the same of last quarter, when corporate issue services increased their participation on total gross revenues.

現在，讓我們看一下數字。總營收年增 21%，季增 5%。XP 再次在資本市場上取得了正面的表現，這體現在零售（尤其是固定收益）和企業發行服務方面。機構收入環比略有下降。在幻燈片的右側，我們可以看到我們的總收入細分。這一趨勢仍然與上季相同，當時企業發行服務在總收入中的比例增加。

Let's move to the next slide with more details on retail. Retail revenue achieved BRL3.3 billion, a 14% growth year over year and a 5% growth quarter over quarter. Fixed income was the main highlight, with a 42% growth year over year and a 17% growth quarter over quarter, which was driven by our capacity to develop new products, including corporate credit and structural notes through primary offerings, and our capacity to provide liquidity in the secondary market, considering our higher than 50% market share in most of securities.

讓我們轉到下一張幻燈片，以了解有關零售業的更多詳細資訊。零售收入實現 33 億雷亞爾，年增 14%，季增 5%。固定收益是主要亮點，同比增長 42%，環比增長 17%，這是由我們開發新產品的能力推動的，包括通過初級發行的企業信貸和結構性票據，以及我們提供服務的能力。在大多數證券中的市佔率高於50%，二級市場的流動性良好。

Moving on to the next slide, we will talk about corporate and issuer services revenue. Corporate and issuer services posted an all-time high revenue, achieving BRL629 million in the quarter, which represents 122% growth year over year and 24% growth quarter over quarter. Issuer services continue to present a fast pace of DCM activity, posting higher revenues than last quarter and reaching BRL384 million, a 145% growth year over year and a 37% growth quarter over quarter.

轉到下一張投影片，我們將討論企業和發行人服務收入。企業和發行人服務收入創下歷史新高，本季實現 6.29 億雷亞爾，年增 122%，季增 24%。發行人服務持續呈現快速的 DCM 活動，營收高於上季度，達到 3.84 億雷亞爾，年增 145%，環比成長 37%。

By having a consolidated investment banking business with solid credentials, we can reach our corporate clients through cross-sell. In that sense, corporate presented the same trend of last quarter, with transactional revenues growing on the back of derivatives and FX. Corporate posted BRL245 million in the quarter, a 94% growth year over year and a 7% growth quarter over quarter.

透過擁有可靠資格的綜合投資銀行業務，我們可以透過交叉銷售吸引企業客戶。從這個意義上說，企業呈現出與上季相同的趨勢，交易收入在衍生性商品和外匯的支持下成長。企業本季錄得 2.45 億雷亞爾，年增 94%，季增 7%。

On the right-hand side of the slide, we explain a little better the cycle I'm referring to, which connects both our retail and corporate and investment banking business. XP loan book is primarily focused on supporting our warehouse business, making sure it's paving the way to our retail distribution. In this quarter, we originated BRL10 billion in new corporate securities warehoused in our balance sheet. In time, those securities will be sold to our retail clients and this revenue will show as fixed income. Finally, by having the market-making capabilities, we can also recycle this risk and provide the liquidity to our different types of clients, maximizing the return of our balance sheet.

在幻燈片的右側，我們更好地解釋了我所指的循環，該循環將我們的零售、企業和投資銀行業務聯繫起來。XP 貸款簿主要致力於支援我們的倉庫業務，確保其為我們的零售分銷鋪平道路。本季度，我們在資產負債表中發行了 100 億雷亞爾的新公司證券。隨著時間的推移，這些證券將出售給我們的零售客戶，並且該收入將顯示為固定收入。最後，透過做市能力，我們還可以回收這種風險，為不同類型的客戶提供流動性，從而最大化我們的資產負債表回報。

Moving on to the next slide, we will explore our SG&A and efficiency ratios. Cost discipline and efficiency are priorities in our business to keep XP competitive. With that in mind, we achieved the best efficiency ratio since the IPO with 36.1%, 220 basis points better year over year and 40 basis points better quarter over quarter.

轉到下一張投影片，我們將探討我們的 SG&A 和效率比率。成本控制和效率是我們業務中保持 XP 競爭力的首要任務。考慮到這一點，我們實現了 IPO 以來的最佳效率，達到 36.1%，年比提高 220 個基點，環比提高 40 個基點。

SG&A ex-incentives reached BRL1.4 billion in the second quarter of 2024, a growth of 14% year over year and flattish quarter over quarter. Bear in mind that on the second quarter of 2023, we didn't have modal SG&A in our financials. The strict cost discipline along for innovation initiatives will allow us to keep expanding our EBT margin in direction of our guidance.

2024 年第二季度，SG&A 除激勵達到 14 億雷亞爾，年增 14%，環比持平。請記住，2023 年第二季度，我們的財務數據中沒有模態 SG&A。創新計劃的嚴格成本紀律將使我們能夠按照我們的指導方針不斷擴大 EBT 利潤率。

EBT achieved the highest level in our history, a combination of a rise in ecosystem revenues and strict expense control, reaching BRL1.4 billion. This represents a growth of 43% year over year and 27% quarter over quarter, driving our EBT margin to 32.8%, a 552-basis-point growth year over year and a 509-basis-point growth quarter over quarter. On a last 12-month basis, our EBT margin reached 28.1%. We expect to improve our EBT margin on an annual basis toward our guidance in 2026.

EBT 達到了我們歷史上的最高水平，這是生態系統收入成長和嚴格費用控制相結合的結果，達到 14 億雷亞爾。這意味著同比增長 43%，環比增長 27%，使我們的 EBT 利潤率達到 32.8%，同比增長 552 個基點，環比增長 509 個基點。在過去 12 個月的基礎上，我們的 EBT 利潤率達到 28.1%。我們預計 EBT 利潤率將逐年提高，以達到 2026 年的指引。

Let's see our net income on the next slide. We also achieved the highest net income in our history, BRL1.1 billion in the second quarter 2024, growing 14% year over year and 9% quarter over quarter. Net margin posted 26.5% in the second quarter, a decrease of 103 basis points year over year and an increase of 110 basis points quarter over quarter. As we mentioned in the Investor Day, we expect XP effective tax rate on a last 12-month basis to gradually increase over time due to revenue mix, since cross-sell and corporate and SMB business keep evolving and present a higher tax rate.

讓我們在下一張幻燈片上看看我們的淨利潤。我們也實現了史上最高的淨利潤，2024 年第二季達到 11 億雷亞爾，年增 14%，季增 9%。第二季淨利率為26.5%，年減103個基點，較上季成長110個基點。正如我們在投資者日提到的，由於交叉銷售以及企業和中小企業業務不斷發展並呈現出更高的稅率，我們預計過去12 個月的XP 有效稅率將隨著時間的推移逐漸增加，因為收入組合。

Let's move on to the next slide to talk about capital management. As I already mentioned, an efficient capital management is key to achieve our long-term objectives. During the last 2.5 years, we have distributed over BRL7.5 billion through dividends and share buybacks. Those distributions are connected to our strategy to return part of the excess capital at the XP Inc., level to shareholders, while keeping a conservative BIS index. As we mentioned in our Investor Day, we intend to reduce it across the years between 16% to 19%.

讓我們轉到下一張投影片來討論資本管理。正如我已經提到的，高效率的資本管理是實現我們長期目標的關鍵。在過去 2.5 年裡，我們透過股利和股票回購分配了超過 75 億雷亞爾。這些分配與我們的策略有關，即向股東返還 XP Inc. 的部分過剩資本，同時維持保守的 BIS 指數。正如我們在投資者日所提到的，我們打算在未來幾年內將其減少 16% 至 19%。

Those initiatives together for net income growth result in higher returns going forward, as we are going to see in the next slide. You can see the evolution of our earnings per share posting a solid growth and achieving BRL2.03, a 10% year over year and a 90% quarter over quarter.

正如我們將在下一張投影片中看到的那樣，這些促進淨利潤成長的舉措共同帶來了更高的回報。您可以看到我們的每股盈餘穩定成長，達到了 2.03 雷亞爾，年成長 10%，環比成長 90%。

During the second quarter of 2024, XP posted 27.2% in ROTE, with an increase of 310 basis points year over year and 108 basis points quarter over quarter. We believe that ROTE presents a better comparison to peers in Brazil due to BR GAAP and IFRS differences.

2024 年第二季度，XP 的 ROTE 為 27.2%，較去年同期成長 310 個基點，較上季成長 108 個基點。我們認為，由於 BR GAAP 和 IFRS 的差異，ROTE 與巴西同行相比具有更好的表現。

Now, I turn over to Maffra for his final remarks.

現在，我請馬夫拉作最後發言。

We had a solid quarter with revenue growth and operating leverage. This combination gives us confidence that we are on track to deliver our 2026 guidance. All initiatives, from distribution channel diversification to sales force expansion, are proving that we are in the right direction to deliver our higher level of net new money compared to last year.

我們在營收成長和營運槓桿方面度過了一個穩定的季度。這種結合讓我們相信我們有望實現 2026 年指導方針。從分銷管道多元化到銷售團隊擴張，所有措施都證明我們的方向是正確的，能夠提供比去年更高水準的淨新資金。

Finally, we believe that we are keeping and enhancing our moats by: first, offering the best product platform in the country, ensuring that our customers have access to an unmatched range of solutions; second, empowering the largest and best trained sales force in the industry; third, and last, evolving our company's value proposition to a new level of service excellence, moving beyond the traditional product distribution model to a far more sophisticated and value-driven approach through financial planning.

最後，我們相信，我們正在透過以下方式維持和增強我們的護城河：首先，提供國內最好的產品平台，確保我們的客戶能夠獲得一系列無與倫比的解​​決方案；其次，賦能業內規模最大、訓練有素的銷售團隊；第三，也是最後一點，將我們公司的價值主張提升到卓越服務的新水平，超越傳統的產品分銷模式，透過財務規劃轉向更複雜和價值驅動的方法。

Now, Andre Parize will start our Q&A session.

現在，Andre Parize 將開始我們的問答環節。

Okay. Thank you, Maffra. We're going to start the Q&A. Antonio Ruette, Bank of America.

好的。謝謝你，馬夫拉。我們要開始問答環節了。安東尼奧·魯埃特，美國銀行。

Hi. Good evening, guys. All right. So two questions on my side. So first, on net inflows, if you could please explore a little bit the consistency and the quality of these net inflows. So how do you break down in terms of across inflows and also outflows, also in terms of mix, and is it coming from other players? Is it new money? So a deep dive here on net inflows.

你好。晚上好，夥計們。好的。我這邊有兩個問題。首先，關於淨流入，請您稍微探討一下這些淨流入的一致性和品質。那麼，如何在流入和流出方面以及混合方面進行細分？是新錢嗎？因此，我們要深入了解淨流入。

And my second question, on headcount, we noticed that headcount increased in the quarter. And if you could explore a little bit here, this theme, it would be great. Thank you.

我的第二個問題，關於員工人數，我們注意到本季員工人數增加。如果你能在這裡探索一下這個主題，那就太好了。謝謝。

Hello, Antonio. This is Thiago. So first of all, sorry to everyone that is here on the call for the problems we have. So we never open outflows and inflows, okay, and not even where the money comes from. So what I can tell you, there is nothing not organically here in the number. So it's 100% organically. And as we mentioned, it's more related to the levers that we have been working on in the past quarters that they are maturing and starting to bring more net new money.

你好，安東尼奧。這是蒂亞戈。首先，對所有因我們遇到的問題而參加電話會議的人表示歉意。所以我們從不公開資金的流出和流入，甚至不公開資金的來源。所以我可以告訴你，這個數字裡沒有什麼是不有機的。所以它是100%有機的。正如我們所提到的，這與我們在過去幾個季度一直在努力的槓桿更相關，它們正在成熟並開始帶來更多的淨新資金。

So yes, we believe the worst is behind us. We are not going to give short-term numbers for next quarter or the next quarters. But what I can say is we do not expect to go back to BRL13 billion, BRL12 billion, as the last quarters. So that's basically what we believe. So we expect good levels of retail net new money going forward.

所以，是的，我們相信最糟糕的時期已經過去了。我們不會提供下個季度或接下來幾季的短期數據。但我可以說的是，我們預計不會像上個季度那樣回到 130 億雷亞爾、120 億雷亞爾。這基本上就是我們所相信的。因此，我們預計未來零售淨新資金將保持良好水準。

For headcounts, basically, what we have been hiring people is especially as we opened last quarter that we have almost 2,000 internal advisors. So we have been, I would say, increasing the number around 80, 100 per month, so internal advisors. So that explains a good part of the number here. Of course, we have some other hirings. We had an internship program with 200 interns. So that's the number.

對於員工人數，基本上，我們一直在招募人員，尤其是上個季度開業時，我們有近 2,000 名內部顧問。所以我想說，我們每月增加 80 到 100 名內部顧問的數量。這就解釋了這裡數字的很大一部分。當然，我們還有一些其他的招募。我們有一個實習計劃，有 200 名實習生。這就是數字。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

豪爾赫·庫裡，摩根士丹利。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions, and congrats on the numbers. Sorry to re-ask the previous question again, but I do think it's important. On the inflows, I mean, I appreciate the explanation that Maffra gave about some of these competitive advantages that you have.

大家好。感謝您有機會提問，並對數字表示祝賀。很抱歉再次問之前的問題，但我確實認為這很重要。關於資金流入，我的意思是，我很欣賞 Maffra 對你們所擁有的一些競爭優勢的解釋。

And if you go back to that slide where you showed them next to the inflows, I mean, it feels to me that all of those things were in place a year ago, and certainly a quarter ago, your multi-channel distribution, your product capabilities, your digital capabilities, your robust IFA network. I don't know that there is any material difference in the last three months on any of those items. And it feels to me that maybe there is a cyclical component here on the recovery of net inflows.

如果你回到那張幻燈片，你在資金流入旁邊展示了它們，我的意思是，我覺得所有這些事情在一年前，當然是一個季度前就已經到位，你的多渠道分銷，你的產品能力、您的數位能力、您強大的 IFA 網路。我不知道過去三個月在這些項目上是否有任何實質差異。我覺得淨流入的恢復可能有週期性因素。

So to the extent that you can help us understand better to what extent indeed there is something cyclical, maybe the volatility that happened in the quarter. I mean, the market sold off aggressively in June and then it picked up again, the currency devalued. So any more color on this very notable and, I think, important increase in inflows would be helpful. Thank you.

因此，您可以幫助我們更好地了解週期性的程度，也許是本季發生的波動。我的意思是，六月市場大幅拋售，然後又回升，貨幣貶值。因此，我認為，對這一非常顯著且重要的資金流入增加進行更多描述將會有所幫助。謝謝。

Yeah. For sure, Jorge. Most of these levers, they were in place, but they were not mature if we go back. Of course, they didn't mature from one month to the other or from one quarter to the other. They're maturing. And of course, we have some other levers that helped us to increase the number.

是的。當然，豪爾赫。大多數這些槓桿已經到位，但如果我們回去的話，它們還不夠成熟。當然，它們並不是從一個月到另一個月或從一個季度到另一個季度成熟的。他們正在成熟。當然，我們還有其他一些手段可以幫助我們增加數量。

For example, if you compare today that we have 11.5% interest rates instead of 13.75% and you have REITs paying 1% a month, when you compare that to the CDs from the banks, the changing regulation, all this stuff, of course, it helps. But I would attribute more value to everything that we have been doing, everything that we control, than a macro environment.

例如，如果你今天比較我們的利率是11.5%，而不是13.75%，而你的房地產投資信託基金每月支付1%，當你將其與銀行的CD 進行比較時，不斷變化的法規，當然，所有這些東西，這有幫助。但我認為我們所做的一切、我們所控制的一切比宏觀環境更有價值。

And again, it's not something that it's specifically to this quarter. So then in Q3, we are going back to 13%, 12% from Q4 and Q1. It's more like a normal level. Of course, there are volatilities that can be slightly lower, slightly higher in the next quarters, but there is nothing not organically here. So we expect that the worst is behind us and that we are going to deliver good retail net new money in the next quarters.

再說一遍，這並不是本季特有的事情。那麼在第三季度，我們將從第四季和第一季回到 13%、12%。這更像是一個正常水平。當然，在接下來的幾個季度中，波動性可能會略低或略高，但這裡沒有什麼不是有機的。因此，我們預計最糟糕的情況已經過去，我們將在接下來的幾季提供良好的零售淨新資金。

All right. Great. Thank you, Maffra.

好的。偉大的。謝謝你，馬夫拉。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

雷納托·梅洛尼，自治。

Thanks for the space here for questions. And welcome, Victor, to your first call here with the team. So following up on net new money, on the last call, you said, Maffra, that you would take some time to return to normalized levels of net new money similar to the previous year. And in fact, numbers were, today, much better than any quarter, at least organically last year. So I wonder here what changed from your view from the past quarter? And what's the, I would say, sustainable level of net new money for the coming quarters?

感謝您提供提問的空間。歡迎維克多與我們的團隊進行第一次通話。因此，在上次電話會議上，Maffra，您在淨新資金方面表示，您需要一些時間才能恢復到與前一年類似的淨新資金正常水平。事實上，今天的數字比任何季度都好得多，至少去年是有機的。所以我想知道您對上個季度的看法有何變化？我想說，未來幾季淨新增資金的可持續水準是多少？

And just secondly, a quick question, what drove the increase in the effective tax rate that was much higher this quarter? Thank you.

其次，一個簡單的問題是，是什麼推動了本季大幅提高的有效稅率的成長？謝謝。

Okay. I can take the first part, and then Victor take the ETR question. So again, the normal level was not the BRL13 billion and BRL12 billion from Q3 -- from Q4 and Q1. That was not normal. And when I say that going back to normalized levels, it is more like through what we have been doing in 2021, early 2022, that we are doing BRL30 billion per quarter. That's what I said that we -- it may take some time to go back there. But again, the levels that we are delivering right now can be a little more, a little less, BRL20 billion, BRL20 billion plus, against BRL13 billion. That's more normalized level for the moment.

好的。我可以回答第一部分，然後 Victor 回答 ETR 問題。同樣，正常水準不是第三季的 130 億雷亞爾和 120 億雷亞爾，而是第四季和第一季的水準。那是不正常的。當我說回到正常化水準時，這更像是我們在 2021 年、2022 年初所做的事情，我們每季的營收為 300 億雷亞爾。這就是我所說的，我們可能需要一些時間才能回到那裡。但同樣，我們現在提供的水平可能多一點，少一點，200 億雷亞爾、200 億雷亞爾以上，而不是 130 億雷亞爾。目前這是更正常化的水平。

But again, we are working very hard to -- at some point in time in the next years to go back to BRL30 billion, BRL40 billion, because we believe that our moat, our competitive advantage, is still in place. That's what we have been talking to all the investors in the past, I would say, almost a year.

但同樣，我們正在非常努力地工作——在未來幾年的某個時間點回到 300 億雷亞爾、400 億雷亞爾，因為我們相信我們的護城河、我們的競爭優勢仍然存在。我想說，這就是我們過去與所有投資者談論的內容，差不多一年了。

The question has been always, okay, now the banks or the competitors, they have closed the gaps. You guys have lost the competitive advantage. And we always said, no, it's something that's temporary. At some point, with everything that we are doing, we will revert that. I believe that's the beginning.

問題一直是，好吧，現在銀行或競爭對手，他們已經縮小了差距。你們已經失去競爭優勢了。我們總是說，不，這只是暫時的。到了某個時候，我們將透過我們正在做的一切來恢復這一點。我相信這就是開始。

Of these new levels, of course, we are not happy with the 2024 that we deliver right now. We are working very hard to go back to higher levels, but it may take some time.

當然，在這些新級別中，我們對現在提供的 2024 年版本並不滿意。我們正在非常努力地回到更高的水平，但這可能需要一些時間。

Okay. Thank you. I got it. But sorry, just to stay on that point, I think part of the question is like what changed from your view in the previous quarter, or maybe nothing changed?

好的。謝謝。我得到了它。但抱歉，只是停留在這一點上，我認為問題的一部分是你上一季的觀點發生了什麼變化，或者也許什麼都沒有改變？

Yeah. Nothing changed, all the work we have been doing in the past quarters.

是的。過去幾季我們所做的所有工作都沒有改變。

Okay. Thank you, Renato. It's a pleasure to be with you all for the first time.

好的。謝謝你，雷納托。很高興第一次和大家在一起。

And moving to the ETR question, basically, the ETR is a result of revenue mix. As we commented before, the corporate issuer services was one of the highlights of the quarter. And they are higher tax business as they are in the bank.

現在轉向 ETR 問題，基本上，ETR 是收入組合的結果。正如我們之前評論的那樣，企業發行人服務是本季的亮點之一。而且它們是稅收較高的業務，因為它們存在​​銀行。

What I can say about that, we expect the tax rate of this quarter to be the highest quarterly rate of this year. But I recommend that you look at the last 12 months normalized ETR, that is a better metric because it's considered the tax paid in the proprietary funds and moves the impact of the quarterly revenue mix variation. And this number was in 18.5 from this quarter, and we can expect this number should be around that over the year.

我可以說的是，我們預計本季的稅率將是今年最高的季度稅率。但我建議您查看過去 12 個月的標準化 ETR，這是一個更好的指標，因為它被視為自營基金中繳納的稅款，並消除了季度收入組合變化的影響。從本季開始，這個數字為 18.5，我們預計全年這個數字應該在這個水準左右。

That's very clear. Thank you.

這非常清楚。謝謝。

Daniel Vaz, Banco Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉銀行。

Hi, guys. Hi, Maffra. Hi, everyone. So your distribution capabilities are indeed very strong, so you have these competitive advantages. So with strong DCM issuances this quarter, probably it was a key driver. So I think nothing has changed. So organically, you're still very capable of raising this net new money organically.

嗨，大家好。嗨，馬夫拉。大家好。所以你們的分銷能力確實很強，所以你們有這些競爭優勢。因此，本季 DCM 發行強勁，這可能是關鍵驅動因素。所以我認為一切都沒有改變。因此，從有機角度來看，您仍然非常有能力有機地籌集這筆淨新資金。

So I wanted to understand here this robust numbers in distribution, how this have helped the net new money in this quarter. So is the growth more concentrated in bank funding instruments or this taxes and private credit? So just a bit to qualify the distribution and the net new money, if you can.

因此，我想在這裡了解這些強勁的分配數字，以及這如何幫助本季的淨新資金。那麼，成長更集中在銀行融資工具還是稅收和私人信貸？因此，如果可以的話，請稍微限定一下分配和淨新資金。

And the second question, about corporate, if you can give us a little bit more context on that because it was very strong and this is not as mature. So it would be good to hear from you. Thank you.

第二個問題，關於企業，您能否給我們更多背景信息，因為它非常強大，但還不夠成熟。所以很高興收到您的來信。謝謝。

Hi, Daniel. Thank you for your question. As we come in the retail, the fixed income was the main highlight in the retail business. And basically, we have a close relation with the retail fixed income and the DCM activity. And as you can see in our balance sheet, we originate a lot of new fixed income instruments over the quarter. And of course, this helps us to generate fixed income revenues and this helps a lot with the net new money.

嗨，丹尼爾。謝謝你的提問。就零售而言，固定收益是零售業務的主要亮點。基本上，我們與零售固定收益和 DCM 活動有著密切的關係。正如您在我們的資產負債表中看到的那樣，我們在本季推出了許多新的固定收益工具。當然，這有助於我們產生固定收益收入，對淨新資金也有很大幫助。

I don't know if that answered your question. If it does, we can move to the next point.

我不知道這是否回答了你的問題。如果是的話，我們可以進入下一點。

Just a comment here -- when we said if you go back to my slide about net new money, the first point was the product platform. Victor just mentioned the integration between DCM and retail distribution. But we go beyond that.

這裡只是評論一下——當我們說如果你回到我關於淨新資金的幻燈片時，第一點是產品平台。Victor剛剛提到了DCM和零售分銷之間的整合。但我們超越了這一點。

So if we get the size, that's public. So if you get all the REITs offering that we did this year, we have been able to raise in a single offer almost BRL2 billion. So what we saw in the first quarter, and also in the second one, is the appetite for, I would say, more diversified products when compared to last year that people are only looking for CDs, tax-exempt CDs from the banks.

所以如果我們得到了尺寸，那就是公開的。因此，如果你了解我們今年發行的所有 REITs，我們已經能夠在一次發行中籌集近 20 億雷亞爾。因此，我們在第一季和第二季看到的是，與去年相比，人們對產品更加多樣化的需求，人們只尋找銀行的 CD、免稅 CD。

Okay. Regarding the corporate side, any comments here, please?

好的。關於企業方面，請問您有什麼意見嗎？

I think the corporate side reflects what Maffra told about the beauty of new products to offer to our corporate and SMB clients. And basically, if you look at the REITs, we didn't have any derivatives capabilities two years ago. And if you look at our FX ranking, we also didn't have this business two to three years ago.

我認為企業方面反映了 Maffra 所講述的有關為我們的企業和中小企業客戶提供新產品之美的內容。基本上，如果你看看房地產投資信託基金，你會發現兩年前我們沒有任何衍生性商品能力。如果你看看我們的外匯排名，兩三年前我們也沒有這項業務。

And basically, as we grow those products in our platform and use our relationship, we are capable to do more cross-selling for those clients. REITs have the client and the REITs have the product. So those business lines should be growing in the base of our guidance.

基本上，當我們在我們的平台上發展這些產品並利用我們的關係時，我們有能力為這些客戶進行更多的交叉銷售。REITs 有客戶，REITs 有產品。因此，這些業務線應該在我們的指導基礎上不斷成長。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

蒂托·拉巴塔，高盛。

Hi. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for the call and taking my question. Another question on the inflows, but more -- how do you think that can benefit revenues going forward? We did see a bit of a pickup in retail revenues this quarter, 5%. But in the past, you said your revenues are not that correlated to inflows. But just how do you think a nice pickup in inflows -- can this translate to a further acceleration in revenues going forward? Just see how you think about that.

你好。大家晚上好。感謝您的來電並回答我的問題。另一個關於資金流入的問題，但更多的是——您認為這對未來的收入有何好處？我們確實看到本季零售收入有所回升，成長了 5%。但在過去，您說您的收入與資金流入沒有那麼相關。但您如何看待資金流入的良好回升——這能否轉化為未來收入的進一步加速？看看你怎麼想的。

And then just another question on your EBT margin. I mean, big improvement there. How do you think about the sustainability of that margin? Anything that was maybe one-off that led to the big improvement in the quarter? How do you see it going forward? Thank you.

還有一個關於你的 EBT 利潤的問題。我的意思是，那裡有很大的進步。您如何看待該利潤率的可持續性？有什麼可能是一次性的事情導致了本季的巨大改善嗎？您如何看待未來的發展？謝謝。

Okay. Thank you, Tito, for your question. I will take the first one and Victor the second one. So about the revenue and correlation with net new money, of course, there is a small pickup because imagine that we have inflows and outflows. But it's small when you compare to the whole way you see that we have. So today, we have almost BRL1.1 trillion of retail clients, and the whole portfolio that we have is much larger than any net new money. So we don't see a big correlation in both of them.

好的。謝謝蒂託的提問。我選第一個，維克多選第二個。因此，關於收入以及與淨新資金的相關性，當然會有小幅回升，因為想像一下我們有流入和流出。但與您所看到的我們所擁有的整體方式相比，它很小。因此，今天，我們擁有近 1.1 兆巴西雷亞爾的零售客戶，而且我們擁有的整個投資組合比任何淨新資金都要大得多。所以我們沒有看到它們兩者有很大的相關性。

But yes, why net new money is so important, because that proves that the mode of the company and the growth, the future growth, it's here. So that's why net new money for us is the main KPI because that dictates how it's going to be the company a few years down the road, more than the revenue this quarter or next quarter.

但是，是的，為什麼淨新資金如此重要，因為這證明了公司的模式和成長，未來的成長，就在這裡。這就是為什麼淨新資金對我們來說是主要的關鍵績效指標，因為它決定了公司未來幾年的發展狀況，而不是本季或下季的收入。

Hi, Tito. Thank you for the question. I think the EBT margin rationale is the same of the ETR. You should look at the last 12 months margin that is currently at 28%. Looking at that margin, you should see a slight improvement. So toward our guidance levels over time, that will eliminate any variance quarter over quarter how to do business mix or ETR.

嗨，蒂托。謝謝你的提問。我認為 EBT 保證金的基本原理與 ETR 相同。您應該查看過去 12 個月的利潤率，目前為 28%。看看這個利潤率，您應該會看到略有改善。因此，隨著時間的推移，朝著我們的指導水平邁進，這將消除季度與季度之間如何進行業務組合或 ETR 的任何差異。

Okay. No, that's helpful. Thank you. And just maybe just in terms of the -- on the revenue outlook, are you feeling more comfortable with the revenue outlook from here? Any just potential catalysts to sort of accelerate the revenues? Just thinking of where we are in the cycle, given your rate is still high.

好的。不，這很有幫助。謝謝。也許就收入前景而言，您對這裡的收入前景感到更滿意嗎？有什麼潛在的催化劑可以加速收入成長嗎？考慮到您的利率仍然很高，想想我們處於週期中的哪個位置。

Yeah. I'm not sure if I understood your question. The revenue for --

是的。我不確定我是否理解你的問題。收入為--

On retail revenues.

關於零售收入。

Can you repeat the question?

你能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Sure. Yeah, sorry. Just on the outlook for retail revenues, I mean, there was the pickup this quarter. I mean, do you think that the outlook is maybe improving to some extent? We still have high rates. How do you see --

當然。是的，抱歉。就零售收入的前景而言，我的意思是，本季有所回升。我的意思是，您認為前景可能會有所改善嗎？我們的利率仍然很高。你怎麼看--

Okay, now I got it. As we mentioned in the presentation, we expect the second half of the year to be better than the first half of the year. So again, we are not giving guidance for the next quarter or for the year. But you can have in mind that the second half should be better in terms of revenues, net income, and so on, because again, the guidance for 2026 is still in place, nothing changed.

好吧，現在我明白了。正如我們在演示中提到的，我們預計下半年會比上半年好。同樣，我們不會給出下一季或今年的指導。但你可以記住，下半年在收入、淨利潤等方面應該會更好，因為同樣，2026 年的指導仍然有效，沒有任何變化。

And if you look at the numbers, the CAGRs we have to deliver on revenue for the top of the guidance is 19%. The increasing margin EBT going to the range 30% to 34%, we should start to pick up in all these metrics. Otherwise, we would not go there.

如果你看一下這些數字，我們必須實現的營收複合年增長率為 19%。EBT 利潤率不斷增加，達到 30% 至 34%，我們應該開始關注所有這些指標。否則，我們不會去那裡。

And we just mentioned that we are on track. So you can expect all these numbers to improve in the next quarters. Of course, there are volatilities. We can go down in some of the quarters until the end of 2026, but the trend is upwards. So you can expect the second half of the year to be better than the first one.

我們剛剛提到我們正在步入正軌。因此，您可以預期所有這些數字在接下來的幾個季度都會有所改善。當然，也存在波動。到 2026 年底，某些季度的成長率可能會下降，但趨勢是上升的。因此，您可以預期下半年會比上半年更好。

Perfect. Thank you very much, and congratulations on the results.

完美的。非常感謝，並祝賀結果。

Olavo Arthuzo, UBS.

奧拉沃·阿圖佐，瑞銀集團。

Thank you, guys. Thank you for taking my question. I have two, but my first is just a follow-up of my colleague's question on net new money. And I totally understand the explanation for this performance this quarter. It was related to the leverage you have been working on.

謝謝你們，夥計們。感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個，但我的第一個只是我同事關於淨新資金問題的後續。我完全理解本季業績的解釋。這與你一直在努力的槓桿有關。

But questioning on the other way, I understand that the change in taxes of instruments had some effect, even a small one. And also, this move decrease in the policy rate had some effect as well. So could you just please give us a magnitude of these two impacts over the inflow this quarter? Basically, just the magnitude, if those two effects had less than 10% effect over the net new money, that would be helpful. Thank you. And then I'll go to my second question.

但從另一方面來說，我知道工具稅的變化有一些影響，即使是很小的影響。此外，政策利率的下調也產生了一定的影響。那麼您能否告訴我們這兩個因素對本季資金流入的影響程度？基本上，只是幅度，如果這兩種效應對淨新資金的影響小於 10%，那就會有幫助。謝謝。然後我將討論第二個問題。

Yeah. Olavo, yes, for sure there was a positive impact from the change in regulation. For sure, the banks, they have less capacity to issue this type of tax-exempt products. But it's almost impossible to say what's the percentage of the increase in net new money coming because of this or because all the other factors. It's not just one factor.

是的。奧拉沃，是的，監管變化確實產生了積極影響。當然，銀行發行此類免稅產品的能力較小。但幾乎​​不可能說出因為這個或所有其他因素帶來的淨新資金增長的百分比是多少。這不僅僅是一個因素。

I understand that most of the questions here is they are trying to find one explanation. There's not one. There are many, many combined levers, some or most of them that we control, some of them that is the market, the interest rate 11.5% is different from 13.75%. We always said that. So it's important to understand that it's not one point.

我知道這裡的大多數問題是他們試圖找到一種解釋。沒有一個。有很多很多組合槓桿，其中一些或大部分是我們控制的，其中一些是市場，利率11.5%和13.75%不同。我們總是這麼說。因此，重要的是要了解這不是一個點。

So again, we always said that we don't need a much better macro environment and we don't need interest rates to go to 8%. We don't need a stock exchange to perform well to go back to bring net new money. So we are not macro dependent. So that's the point. And we'll not have only one explanation.

再說一次，我們總是說我們不需要更好的宏觀環境，我們不需要利率達到8%。我們不需要一個表現良好的證券交易所來重新帶來淨新資金。所以我們不依賴宏觀。這就是重點。我們不會只有一種解釋。

Okay, that's great. Understood. So if I may, my second question, and I will shift the discussion to the credit card business because I saw you continue to expand its active credit card base, but I know that the monthly spend dropped for the second and consecutive quarter here. So guys, I just wanted to understand if this is solely related to the macroeconomic backdrop that we are living, or if this could be related to our clients, they use your credit card moving to other banks, or think that a sort of credit card offers a similar 1% cashback as several other benefits. Any color of that will be helpful. Thank you again.

好的，太好了。明白了。因此，如果可以的話，我的第二個問題，我將把討論轉移到信用卡業務，因為我看到你們繼續擴大其活躍的信用卡基礎，但我知道這裡的每月支出連續第二個季度下降。所以夥計們，我只是想了解這是否僅僅與我們所處的宏觀經濟背景有關，或者這是否可能與我們的客戶有關，他們使用您的信用卡轉移到其他銀行，或者認為這是一種信用卡提供與其他幾項福利類似的1% 現金回饋。任何顏色都會有幫助。再次感謝您。

Okay. Yes. About credit cards, basically, we have two levers here to work on. First of all, today, we have 2 million eligible clients. So out of the almost 5 million clients, only 2 million clients from all the brands are eligible to have our credit card. So if you get the number of issued credit cards, around 1 million cards, so it's a 50% penetration.

好的。是的。關於信用卡，基本上，我們有兩個槓桿可以利用。首先，今天我們有200萬合格客戶。因此，在近 500 萬名客戶中，只有 200 萬名來自所有品牌的客戶有資格擁有我們的信用卡。因此，如果你了解信用卡的發行數量，大約有 100 萬張卡，那麼滲透率就是 50%。

So here, we have two levers. The first one, it's improve the benefits that we -- or the choice we give to our customers. So we just release the miles points for credit cards. So we believe we can capture clients that perceive more value added on points than only invest back. So that's one.

所以在這裡，我們有兩個槓桿。第一個，它是提高我們的利益——或者我們為客戶提供的選擇。所以我們只釋放信用卡的哩程積分。因此，我們相信我們可以吸引那些認為積分增值比僅僅投資回報更多的客戶。這就是其中之一。

And the second one is how we make the other 3 million clients eligible. Of course, working with the right loss absorption, with the right level of risk, so we have been working on increasing the number of eligible clients. So we believe that we can go back on track to capture more growth on credit cards on the next quarters.

第二個問題是我們如何讓其他 300 萬客戶符合資格。當然，在適當的損失吸收和適當的風險水平下，我們一直在努力增加合格客戶的數量。因此，我們相信我們可以回到正軌，在接下來的幾個季度獲得信用卡的更多成長。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

尼哈·阿加瓦拉，匯豐銀行。

Hi. Thank you for taking my question, and congratulations on the results. On the cost of services, I think the control over COGS was quite impressive, which also led to the gross profit expansion. Could you talk a bit about that? How sustainable that is? What levers did you pull there for such a good control on the cost of services?

你好。感謝您提出我的問題，並對結果表示祝賀。在服務成本方面，我認為對COGS的控制是相當可觀的，這也導致了毛利的擴張。你能談談這個嗎？這有多可持續？為了對服務成本進行如此良好的控制，您使用了哪些槓桿？

And my second question is on the loan book. If I'm looking at the correct numbers, the credit portfolio actually went down 14% quarter on quarter. So if you could just explain why that decline in the credit portfolio. Thank you so much.

我的第二個問題是關於貸款簿的。如果我看的是正確的數字，信貸投資組合實際上環比下降了 14%。那麼，如果你能解釋為什麼信貸投資組合會下降。太感謝了。

Hi, Neha. Thank you. Thank you for the question. First of all, the COGS, I think that's a reflection of our operational leverage and our capacity to do more business without increasing costs. You can see both of those effects in COGS and SG&A, and this trend should go towards the year.

嗨，尼哈。謝謝。謝謝你的提問。首先，我認為銷貨成本反映了我們的營運槓桿以及我們在不增加成本的情況下開展更多業務的能力。您可以在 COGS 和 SG&A 中看到這兩種影響，而這一趨勢應該會持續到今年。

And if I may go to the loan book question, basically, what we did, we securitized part of our loan portfolio and moved that to our corporate bonds as a financial debenture, and this is part of our risk recycle process. And we should use those corporate bonds as collateral for repo operations against our clients and eventually to sell those operations in our ecosystem.

如果我可以談談貸款帳簿問題，基本上，我們做了什麼，我們將部分貸款組合證券化，並將其作為金融債券轉移到我們的公司債券，這是我們風險回收流程的一部分。我們應該使用這些公司債作為針對客戶的回購操作的抵押品，並最終在我們的生態系統中出售這些操作。

If I understand, this is new, right? You had not done this in the prior quarters. So what was the motivation regarding doing this?

如果我理解的話，這是新的，對嗎？您在前幾個季度沒有這樣做過。那麼這樣做的動機是什麼呢？

It's new. It's the first time that we did that. The idea is to create a process to recycle the risk in our loan book. And it's the first time, and we should keep seeing that in the future.

這是新的。這是我們第一次這樣做。我們的想法是創建一個流程來回收貸款簿中的風險。這是第一次，我們應該在未來繼續看到這一點。

So was the asset quality worse than expected? What was the reason for this recycling of the loan book?

那麼資產品質是否低於預期？借書被回收的原因是什麼？

No, the quality of the assets are the same as always -- low risk, good clients, a good portfolio. And the idea here is create instruments, recycle risk at the same time that we can provide new products to our clients. And by doing that, we can increase our capacity to originate new assets at the same time that we create new products to our retail distribution. And basically, that is the idea.

不，資產的品質一如既往——低風險、良好的客戶、良好的投資組合。這裡的想法是創建工具，回收風險，同時我們可以為客戶提供新產品。透過這樣做，我們可以在為零售分銷創造新產品的同時，提高創造新資產的能力。基本上，這就是這個想法。

Okay. And also, the provisions this quarter was low. Is this related to this recycling?

好的。而且，本季的撥備也很低。這與回收有關嗎？

It's partially related to this recycling and partially related to some operations that we cover -- credit that we cover from other periods.

它部分與這種回收有關，部分與我們報道的一些操作有關——我們從其他時期報道的信用。

Okay. Great. Thank you so much.

好的。偉大的。太感謝了。

Thank you for your question.

謝謝你的提問。

Okay. We are up on the hour. So thank you, Maffra. Thank you, Victor. Thank you all of you participants today. I apologize once again for our troubling connections. And we are available -- the IR team is available for any further questions.

好的。我們準時起床。所以謝謝你，馬夫拉。謝謝你，維克多。感謝今天所有的參與者。對於我們之間令人不安的聯繫，我再次表示歉意。我們隨時歡迎 IR 團隊解答任何進一步的問題。

Thank you once again, and we see or we talk to each other on the next quarter. Thank you.

再次感謝您，我們將在下個季度見面或交談。謝謝。