Webster Financial Corp (WBS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Welcome to the Webster Financial Corp fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to introduce Webster's Director of Investor Relations, Emlen Harmon to introduce the call. Mr. Harmon. Please go ahead.

早安.歡迎參加 Webster Financial Corp 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。請注意，該事件正在被記錄。現在，我想介紹韋伯斯特投資者關係總監 Emlen Harmon 來介紹這次電話會議。哈蒙先生。請繼續。

Good morning. Before we begin our remarks. I want to remind you that the comments made by management may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to the Safe Harbor rules. Please review the forward-looking disclaimer and Safe Harbor language in today's press release and presentation for more information about risks and uncertainties which may affect us.

早安.在我們開始發言之前。我想提醒您，管理階層所發表的評論可能包括 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案所定義義的前瞻性陳述，並受安全港規則的約束。請查看今天的新聞稿和簡報中的前瞻性免責聲明和安全港語言，以獲取有關可能影響我們的風險和不確定因素的更多資​​訊。

Presentation of companying management's remarks can be found on the company's Investor Relations site at investors.websterbank.com. For the Q&A portion of the call, we ask that each participant asks just one question and one follow-up before returning to the queue. I'll now turn the call over to Webster Financial's CEO, John Ciulla.

公司管理層的評論可在公司投資者關係網站 investors.websterbank.com 上找到。對於通話的問答部分，我們要求每個參與者在返回隊列之前只提出一個問題和一個後續問題。現在我將把電話轉給韋伯斯特金融 (Webster Financial) 的執行長約翰‧丘拉 (John Ciulla)。

Thanks, Emlen. Good morning and welcome to Webster Financial Corporation's fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. We appreciate you joining us this morning. I'll provide some high level remarks on our performance, after which our CFO, Neal Holland, will cover the financials in more detail. Our President and Chief Operating Officer, Luis Massiani, is also joining us for the Q&A portion of the call today.

謝謝，埃姆倫。早安，歡迎參加韋伯斯特金融公司 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。感謝您今天上午加入我們。我將對我們的業績做出一些高層的評論，之後我們的財務長尼爾霍蘭德 (Neal Holland) 將更詳細地介紹財務狀況。我們的總裁兼營運長 Luis Massiani 也將參加今天電話會議的問答部分。

The company again realized a number of strategic achievements in 2024 as we continue to deliver for our clients and position the bank for the future. We took a number of steps to improve our balance sheet including optimizing asset risk weightings for regulatory capital ratios, reducing our concentration of commercial real estate assets, and improving the yield profile on our securities portfolio.

隨著我們繼續為客戶提供服務並為銀行的未來做好準備，公司在 2024 年再次實現了多項策略成就。我們採取了一系列措施來改善我們的資產負債表，包括優化監管資本比率的資產風險權重，降低商業房地產資產的集中度，以及改善我們的證券投資組合的收益率狀況。

In addition to deposit growth, we continue to add off balance sheet funding capacity, further enhancing our liquidity profile. The acquisition of Ametros early in the year added a new source of low cost, long duration deposits with a fantastic growth opportunity.

除了存款成長之外，我們也持續增加表外融資能力，進一步增強我們的流動性狀況。今年年初對 Ametros 的收購增加了一個新的低成本、長期存款來源，具有絕佳的成長機會。

Through our integration work in 2024, we have developed an even greater appreciation for the growth potential of the business. We're introducing banking products to a Ametros' client base, increasing industry, adoption of settlement administration and exploring alternate markets for Ametros' products and services.

透過 2024 年的整合工作，我們對業務的成長潛力有了更深刻的認識。我們正在向 Ametros 的客戶群推出銀行產品、擴大產業、採用結算管理並探索 Ametros 產品和服務的替代市場。

These strategic accomplishments establish a solid foundation for Webster's future, particularly as we grow toward a heightened regulatory paradigm and prepare to operate in a higher for longer interest rate environment.

這些策略成就為韋伯斯特的未來奠定了堅實的基礎，特別是當我們朝著更嚴格的監管模式發展並準備在更長時間內在更高的利率環境中運作時。

From a financial perspective, we grew both loans and deposits amidst a challenging year for the banking industry on both fronts. Loan growth was driven by our C&I and residential mortgage setting Webster up for balanced loan growth into the future.

從財務角度來看，在銀行業面臨雙重挑戰的一年裡，我們的貸款和存款都實現了成長。貸款成長主要由我們的商業和工業以及住宅抵押貸款推動，為韋伯斯特未來平衡的貸款成長奠定了基礎。

Our full year financial results continue to be among the best of our like-sized peers including an adjusted return on tangible common equity of 17.5%, adjusted return on assets of 1.23%, and an efficiency ratio of 45.4%.

我們的全年財務表現持續在同等規模的同業中名列前茅，包括調整後的有形普通股權益報酬率為 17.5%，調整後的資產報酬率為 1.23%，效率比率為 45.4%。

Turning to slide 3, we ended the fourth quarter on a solid trajectory with an adjusted return on tangible common equity of 17.7%, adjusted return on assets of 1.27%, and an efficiency ratio of just below 45%. Loans and deposits continue to grow, our net interest margin expanded, and we have some unique non-interest income opportunities in the quarter.

轉到投影片 3，我們以穩健的軌跡結束了第四季度，調整後的有形普通股回報率為 17.7%，調整後的資產回報率為 1.27%，效率比率略低於 45%。貸款和存款持續成長，我們的淨利差擴大，並且本季我們有一些獨特的非利息收入機會。

On slide 4, we continue to be very proud of the differentiated funding profile we have built at Webster and it continued to be a focus for us in 2024. On a year-over-year basis, we grew deposits in each of our differentiated business lines. Our loan to deposit ratio of just over 80% provides us with another element of flexibility as we move into 2025 and beyond.

在投影片 4 上，我們繼續對在韋伯斯特建立的差異化融資狀況感到非常自豪，並且它將繼續成為我們在 2024 年關注的重點。與去年同期相比，我們各差異化業務線的存款都有成長。我們的貸款與存款比率略高於 80%，這為我們邁向 2025 年及以後提供了另一種靈活性。

As previously noted, we added Ametros, which has grown its deposit balances to just over $1 billion from $800 million at the time of acquisition. We continue to be excited about the potential of this rapidly expanding business.

如前所述，我們收購了 Ametros，其存款餘額從收購時的 8 億美元成長至 10 億美元多一點。我們繼續對這個快速擴展的業務的潛力感到興奮。

HSA Bank grew its deposits by $800 million in the year, in part attributed to the launch of the HSA invest platform which helps ensure seamless access between an HSA account holder and their investments.

HSA 銀行今年的存款增加了 8 億美元，部分原因是推出了 HSA 投資平台，該平台有助於確保 HSA 帳戶持有人與其投資之間的無縫存取。

We've seen an accelerating deposit growth in consumer through our digital channels as we've enhanced digital account opening capabilities in our branch network and private client segment in the commercial bank deposit growth benefited from the expansion of our 1031 exchange business and emphasis of bilateral relationships with our commercial real estate and middle market clients.

隨著我們增強了分行網路的數位開戶能力以及商業銀行私人客戶群的數位開戶能力，我們看到透過數位管道的消費者存款成長加速，這得益於我們1031兌換業務的擴展以及與商業房地產和中端市場客戶的雙邊關係的加強。

We continue to grow our client base at Interlink, ensuring access to core FDIC insured funding and enhancing deposit availability to our partner depository institutions. Overall, a lot of good developments on the funding front, which will continue to be a focus of ours as we move forward.

我們持續擴大 Interlink 的客戶群，確保能夠獲得核心 FDIC 保險資金，並提高合作存款機構的存款可用性。整體而言，融資方面有很多好的進展，這將繼續成為我們未來關注的重點。

Moving to slide 5, we continue to provide metrics on the CRE portfolio with a focus on office. Exposure to office is down materially again this quarter to less than 825 million and metrics on the remaining portfolio have improved. Outside of office and healthcare services, we are not seeing any other pockets of correlated weakness.

轉到第 5 張投影片，我們繼續提供以辦公室為重點的 CRE 投資組合指標。本季度，辦公室投資再次大幅下降至少於 8.25 億，剩餘投資組合的指標有所改善。除了辦公室和醫療保健服務外，我們沒有看到任何其他相關的疲軟跡象。

On overall credit, despite a higher level of charge offs in the quarter, we see underlying credit migration trends moderating and still believe we're looking at a mid-2025 inflection point on overall credit metrics. In the quarter, net charge off total just over $60 million, with 60% of those charges coming from traditional office related or healthcare services credits, the two portfolios we've been talking about over the past year.

就整體信貸而言，儘管本季的沖銷水平較高，但我們看到潛在的信貸遷移趨勢正在緩和，並且仍然相信我們正看到 2025 年中期整體信貸指標的拐點。本季度，淨沖銷總額略高於 6,000 萬美元，其中 60% 的費用來自傳統辦公室相關或醫療保健服務信貸，這是我們過去一年一直在談論的兩個投資組合。

We still believe a normalized annualized charge off rate is 25 basis points to 30 basis points, with some volatility quarter to quarter, given the commercial bias of our portfolio. 2024 overall net charge offs approximated 30 basis points, the high end of that range. With that, I'll turn it over to Neal to provide some additional detail on our solid financial performance in the quarter.

我們仍然認為，標準化的年化沖銷率為 25 個基點至 30 個基點，考慮到我們投資組合的商業偏差，每個季度之間會有一些波動。 2024 年整體淨沖銷約為 30 個基點，是該範圍的最高端。接下來，我將把話題轉交給尼爾，讓他提供更多關於我們本季穩健財務表現的詳細資訊。

Thanks John and good morning everyone. I'll start on slide 6 with our GAAP and adjusted earnings for the quarter. On an adjusted basis, we reported net income to common shareholders of $240 million and diluted EPS of $1.43. Adjustments consisted of a pretax $57 million securities repositioning charge and a $29 million deferred tax asset valuation charge.

謝謝約翰，大家早安。我將從第 6 張投影片開始介紹本季的 GAAP 和調整後收益。經調整後，我們報告普通股股東淨利潤為 2.4 億美元，稀釋每股收益為 1.43 美元。調整包括稅前 5,700 萬美元的證券重新定位費用和 2,900 萬美元的遞延稅務資產估價費用。

Turning to slide 7. Total assets were $79 billion at period end, effectively flat to last quarter as growth in loans and securities were offset by lower levels of cash at period end. The loan to deposit ratio increased modestly to 81.1%. Capital remained in a strong position as retained earnings largely offset the impact of greater unrealized security losses.

翻到幻燈片 7。期末總資產為 790 億美元，與上一季基本持平，因為貸款和證券的成長被期末現金水準的降低所抵消。貸存比率小幅上升至81.1%。由於留存收益在很大程度上抵消了未實現證券損失增加的影響，資本仍保持強勢。

Loan trends are highlighted on slide 8. In total, loans were up $558 million or 1.1% linked quarter. Loan growth primarily came in C&I and residential lending categories. CRE was down due to a decline in the office portfolio and increased payoff activity at year-end. CRE concentration levels declined to 255%

幻燈片 8 重點展示了貸款趨勢。總體而言，貸款環比增加了 5.58 億美元，增幅為 1.1%。貸款成長主要來自商業和工業以及住宅貸款類別。由於辦公大樓組合減少和年底還款活動增加，企業房地產收入下降。CRE濃度下降至255%

From current levels, we are well-positioned to return to modest growth in the portfolio without increasing concentration, particularly as we have the opportunity to build relationships with attractive risk reward characteristics.

從目前的水平來看，我們完全有能力在不增加集中度的情況下恢復投資組合的適度增長，特別是因為我們有機會建立具有吸引人的風險回報特徵的關係。

The yield on the loan portfolio was down 26 basis points, driven by the effects of the 100 basis points of Fed cut since September on our floating rate loan portfolio.

貸款組合收益率下降了 26 個基點，主要是受聯準會自 9 月以來降息 100 個基點的影響，對我們的浮動利率貸款組合產生了影響。

We provide additional detail on deposits on slide 9. We grew total deposits by $239 million as seasonal declines in public funds were offset by short duration time deposit growth and modest growth in other categories.

我們在第 9 張投影片上提供了有關存款的更多詳細資訊。由於公共資金的季節性下降被短期存款的成長和其他類別的溫和成長所抵消，我們的總存款增加了 2.39 億美元。

Exclusive of public fund deposits, DDA balances increased by $75 million, marking the second consecutive quarter of growth.

不包括公共基金存款，DDA 餘額增加了 7,500 萬美元，連續第二季實現成長。

Moving to slide 10. Total revenues were up $35 million over the prior quarter, with a $19 million increase in interest income and a $16 million increase in non-interest income. Net interest income benefited from a modest expansion in NIM and growth in interest earning assets.

移至投影片 10。總收入較上一季增加 3,500 萬美元，其中利息收入增加 1,900 萬美元，非利息收入增加 1,600 萬美元。淨利息收入受益於淨利息收益率的適度擴張和生息資產的成長。

Non-interest income was up $16 million over the prior quarter as we realized a large direct investment gain and saw a positive swing in the derivative valuation adjustment. Adjusted expenses were up $12 million over the prior quarter and our provision was up $9 million. Excluding adjustments, our tax rate was 20.7%. Overall adjusted net income was up $15 million, relative to the prior quarter. Efficiency ratio came in at 45%.

由於我們實現了巨額直接投資收益且衍生性商品估值調整出現正面變化，非利息收入較上一季增加了 1,600 萬美元。調整後的費用比上一季增加了 1,200 萬美元，而我們的撥備增加了 900 萬美元。除去調整，我們的稅率為 20.7%。與上一季相比，整體調整後淨收入增加了 1500 萬美元。效率比達到45%。

On slide 11, we highlight net interest income, which increased $19 million or 3.2% in the quarter, driven by balance sheet growth and a modest increase in the net interest margin. The NIM was up 3 basis points to 3.39%.

在投影片 11 上，我們重點介紹了淨利息收入，本季增加了 1,900 萬美元，增幅 3.2％，這得益於資產負債表的成長和淨息差的適度增加。淨利差上升3個基點至3.39%。

In the fourth quarter, we incrementally sold securities with a book value of $665 million and reinvested with approximately 300 basis point improvement in yields, a nominal impact to capital ratios.

在第四季度，我們逐步出售了帳面價值 6.65 億美元的證券，並進行了再投資，收益率提高了約 300 個基點，對資本比率的影響不大。

We anticipated earn back on the transaction of three years. We reduced our total deposit costs by 16 basis points in the quarter.

我們預計三年的交易就能賺回利潤。本季度，我們將總存款成本降低了 16 個基點。

Slide 12 illustrates our interest income sensitivity to rates. We have proactively reduced our asset sensitivity by over 95% since 2021, with the intent to provide a stable interest income trajectory through a variety of interest rate environments.

投影片 12 說明了我們的利息收入對利率的敏感度。自 2021 年以來，我們主動將資產敏感度降低了 95% 以上，旨在透過各種利率環境提供穩定的利息收入軌跡。

On slide 13, with non-interest income, adjusted non-interest income was $109 million, up $16 million over the prior quarter. Excluding the direct investment gain and the positive CVA in the quarter, non-interest income would have been roughly $95 million. Underlying business activity remained consistent to the prior quarter.

在第 13 頁，非利息收入方面，調整後的非利息收入為 1.09 億美元，比上一季增加了 1,600 萬美元。除去本季的直接投資收益和正的 CVA，非利息收入約為 9,500 萬美元。基礎商業活動與上一季保持一致。

Turning to slide 14, we have details on non-interest expense. We reported adjusted expenses of $340 million, up from $328 million in 3Q. In the quarter, we realized higher performance-based incentive accruals and a seasonal increase in benefit expense, and made a charitable contribution to the Webster Foundation.

轉到第 14 張幻燈片，我們有關於非利息支出的詳細資訊。我們報告的調整後支出為 3.4 億美元，高於第三季的 3.28 億美元。本季度，我們實現了更高的基於績效的激勵應計金額和福利費用的季節性增加，並向韋伯斯特基金會進行了慈善捐款。

Slide 15 details components of our allowance for credit losses, which was up $2 million relative to the prior quarter. After booking $61 million in net charge-offs, we recorded a $63 million provision, effectively matching charge-offs.

投影片 15 詳細說明了我們的信用損失準備金的組成部分，與上一季相比增加了 200 萬美元。在計入 6,100 萬美元的淨沖銷額後，我們記錄了 6,300 萬美元的撥備，有效地匹配了沖銷額。

Our allowance as a percentage of loans remained effectively flat to last quarter at 131 basis points. As John indicated, charge-offs were principally related to traditional office and healthcare service related credits.

我們的撥備佔貸款的百分比與上一季基本持平，為 131 個基點。正如約翰所指出的，沖銷主要與傳統辦公室和醫療服務相關的信貸有關。

Slide 16 highlights our key asset quality metrics. As you can see on the left-hand side of the page, risk grain migration slowed in the quarter with nonperforming assets of 8% and commercial classified loans up 17%.

投影片 16 重點介紹了我們的關鍵資產品質指標。正如您在頁面左側看到的，本季風險粒轉移放緩，不良資產佔 8%，商業分類貸款增加 17%。

Turning to slide 17. Our capital levels were effectively flat or up modestly as we retain a good amount of excess capital. Our tangible book value per share declined to $32.95 per share from $33.26, reflecting the impact of AOCI.

翻到第 17 張投影片。由於我們保留了大量過剩資本，我們的資本水準實際上保持平穩或略有上升。我們的每股有形帳面價值從 33.26 美元下降至 32.95 美元，反映了 AOCI 的影響。

For full year 2025 outlook, appears on page 18. We anticipate loans will grow 4% to 5% on an end-of-period basis, with growth driven by a diverse mix of asset classes. We also expect deposits will grow 4% to 5% on an end-of-period basis.

2025年全年展望請參閱第18頁。我們預計貸款將在期末成長 4% 至 5%，成長主要由多種資產類別組合推動。我們也預計期末存款將成長 4% 至 5%。

We anticipate net interest income of $2.45 billion to $2.5 billion on a non-FTE basis. For those modeling net interest income on an FTE basis, I would add roughly $55 million to the outlook. Our outlook assumes 225 basis point Fed funds reductions beginning in March.

我們預計非全職員工淨利息收入將達到 24.5 億美元至 25 億美元。對於那些以全職當量 (FTE) 為基礎建立淨利息收入模型的人來說，我會將預期增加約 5,500 萬美元。我們的展望假設從 3 月開始聯邦基金利率將下調 225 個基點。

We expect noninterest income will be $370 million to $390 million. We anticipate expenses will be in the range of $1.39 billion to $1.41 billion, with an efficiency ratio of between 45% and 47%. Incorporated in our expense outlook are approximately $15 million to $20 million in incremental run rate operating expenses needed to prepare for our eventual transition to a Category 4 bank.

我們預計非利息收入將達到 3.7 億至 3.9 億美元。我們預計支出將在 13.9 億美元至 14.1 億美元之間，效率比率在 45% 至 47% 之間。我們的費用預測中包括約 1500 萬至 2000 萬美元的增量運行率營運費用，為我們最終過渡到 4 類銀行做好準備。

We are prioritizing investments that enhance our operating foundation, including data reporting, frontline controls and treasury management. Over the next several years, we believe we will add between $40 million to $60 million in run rate operating expenses, inclusive of the amount realized in 2025, that we'll make the bank Category 4 ready under the existing proposals. We continue to anticipate our effective tax rate will be approximately 21%. Our near-term common equity Tier 1 ratio target remains 11%.

我們優先考慮能夠增強我們營運基礎的投資，包括數據報告、前線控制和財務管理。在接下來的幾年裡，我們相信我們將增加 4,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元的營運費用（包括 2025 年實現的金額），我們將根據現有提案使銀行達到第 4 類標準。我們繼續預計我們的有效稅率將約為21%。我們近期的普通股一級資本充足率目標仍為 11%。

With that, I will turn it back to John for closing remarks.

最後，我將把話題轉回給約翰，請他作最後發言。

Thanks, Neal. As Neal just noted, we are proactively investing in Webster's future investments. Investments we are making to improve our data and analytics capabilities not only prepare Webster for a large bank regulatory regime, but will also allow the bank to operate more nimbly, discover new pockets of opportunity and earlier mitigation of risk management concerns.

謝謝，尼爾。正如尼爾剛才所說，我們正在積極投資韋伯斯特的未來投資。我們為提高數據和分析能力而進行的投資不僅能讓韋伯斯特銀行為大型銀行監管制度做好準備，而且還能讓該銀行更加靈活地運營，發現新的機會並更早地緩解風險管理問題。

In addition to the investments needed to simply become a bigger bank, we are also investing proactively to grow our existing businesses. At the outset of my remarks, I mentioned some of the opportunities we see to expand Ametros' addressable market.

除了成為一家更大的銀行所需的投資之外，我們還積極投資以發展現有業務。在我的發言一開始，我提到了我們看到的一些擴大 Ametros 潛在市場的機會。

Also contemplated in our outlook, our business development investments across our various business segments that will drive the company's performance well beyond 2025. In the commercial bank, we are enhancing our treasury management capabilities and hiring middle market banking teams.

我們的展望也考慮到，我們在各個業務部門的業務發展投資將推動公司在 2025 年後取得更好的表現。在商業銀行，我們正在增強財務管理能力並招募中型市場銀行團隊。

In consumer, we are enhancing the capabilities of our digital banking channels and client acquisition tools. And in HSA, we will continue to improve our user interface and analytics capabilities that improve client engagement. Webster remains well positioned for the future, given our strong capital position and diverse balance sheet.

在消費者方面，我們正在增強數位銀行管道和客戶獲取工具的功能。在 HSA 中，我們將繼續改進使用者介面和分析功能，以提高客戶參與度。鑑於我們強大的資本狀況和多元化的資產負債表，韋伯斯特仍處於有利的未來地位。

Our efficient operating structure enables us to make investments necessary to grow our business while maintaining a peer-leading return profile. Before I wrap up, I did want to note that we have colleagues and clients who've been impacted at the end of last year, the floods in North Carolina and now the fires in Los Angeles.

我們高效的營運結構使我們能夠進行業務成長所需的投資，同時保持同業領先的回報狀況。在結束之前，我想指出的是，我們的同事和客戶在去年年底受到了北卡羅來納州洪水和洛杉磯火災的影響。

And I want to express our sympathies to them and everyone impacted by those tragedies we continue to do all we can to help mitigate some of the damage there. Thank you to our colleagues for their hard work and contribution to Webster's success in 2024, as they delivered again, fantastic outcomes for our clients and communities. Thank you all for joining the call today. Operator, we'll open it up for questions.

我想向他們以及所有受到這些悲劇影響的人表示同情，我們將繼續竭盡全力幫助減輕那裡的損失。感謝我們的同事們的辛勤工作以及為韋伯斯特 2024 年的成功做出的貢獻，他們再次為我們的客戶和社區帶來了出色的成果。感謝大家今天參加電話會議。接線員，我們現在開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Mark Fitzgibbon, Piper Sandler.

（操作員指示）馬克·菲茨吉本、派珀·桑德勒。

John, it sounds like the Treasury Secretary nominee is disposed to easing regulations on banks like Webster. I guess if -- I'm curious if the Category 4 threshold is raised, is it likely that Webster would again become a buyer of small banks? Would that sort of move up on your priority list?

約翰，聽起來財政部長提名人傾向於放鬆對韋伯斯特等銀行的監管。我想——我很好奇，如果第四類門檻提高了，韋伯斯特是否有可能再次成為小型銀行的買家？這在您的優先事項中會上升嗎？

Yeah. I mean, Mark, I think it stands right now, we're obviously really excited about our kind of path forward from an organic perspective. And you are right that the Category 4 kind of bright line hurdle at $100 billion really takes some of the optionality to be acquisitive out of the equation right now.

是的。我的意思是，馬克，我認為就目前情況而言，從有機角度來看，我們顯然對我們的前進道路感到非常興奮。您說得對，1000 億美元這一第四類明確的門檻確實讓一些收購選擇權目前不再適用。

Our expectation is that it will take some time to really get a good sense of what the regulatory paradigm will look like after the administration change. But to the extent M&A is easier, more allowable or the restrictions or the additional work that we need to do for Category 4 has lessened over time, that would certainly put us in an opportunity to build more franchise inorganically.

我們預計，需要一段時間才能真正了解政府變革後的監管模式將會是什麼樣子。但是，隨著時間的推移，併購變得更容易、更允許，或者我們需要為第 4 類做的限製或額外工作減少，這無疑會給我們帶來以無機方式建立更多特許經營權的機會。

So I guess the short answer is, yes, a change in the regulatory paradigm could accelerate our looking at inorganic growth. But it's not in our '25 plan right now. And I think we take a pretty conservative view as to how quickly things will change over the course of the next year.

因此我想簡短的回答是，是的，監管模式的改變可能會加速我們對無機成長的關注。但它目前不在我們的‘25’計劃中。我認為，我們對明年事態變化的速度持相當保守的看法。

Okay. Great. And then that $53 million increase in C&I NPLs you had this quarter, I guess I was curious how many credits was that? And was it concentrated in any one particular industry?

好的。偉大的。然後本季你的 C&I 不良貸款增加了 5300 萬美元，我很好奇那是多少？並且是否集中在某一特定產業？

It was three or four credits. It wasn't -- there was some office in there as well as usual. What we're seeing from an overall credit perspective, and obviously, we had slightly higher charge-offs this quarter is kind of non-accruals and loss really resulting in the two portfolios. I mentioned we have had negative risk rating migration across the loan portfolio, but that mitigated and moderated materially in the fourth quarter.

這是三到四個學分。事實並非如此——那裡和平常一樣有一些辦公室。從整體信貸角度來看，顯然本季的沖銷金額略高，這是一種不計提和損失，實際上導致了這兩個投資組合的出現。我提到過，我們的整個貸款組合的風險評級都出現了負面變化，但這種情況在第四季度得到了明顯緩解。

So it's three or four credits. And I would say kind of the same usual suspects in terms of the characteristics of those credits.

所以是三到四個學分。而我會說，就這些信貸的特徵而言，它們之間存在著同樣的常見嫌疑。

Jared Shaw, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的賈里德·肖 (Jared Shaw)。

Just looking at the margin trajectory, how should we be thinking about that, I guess, maybe with the backdrop of that securities repositioning and when that was in the quarter?

僅從利潤率走勢來看，我想我們應該如何考慮這一點，也許是在證券重新定位的背景下，以及在本季什麼時候？

Yeah. So we talked about last quarter expecting 2025 to be in that 3.30% range. With positive movements in Q4 and steeper curve, we now believe that our NIM for 2025 will be in the range of 3.35% to 3.40%. So positive increases. And on the repositioning, we saw very little impact in Q4, just shy of $2 million with about $18 million increase in value to our NII in 2025.

是的。因此，我們在上個季度討論了預計 2025 年將達到 3.30% 的範圍。隨著第四季的積極走勢和曲線更加陡峭，我們現在相信 2025 年的 NIM 將在 3.35% 至 3.40% 之間。因此正值增加。在重新定位方面，我們在第四季度看到的影響很小，僅略低於 200 萬美元，而 2025 年我們的 NII 價值將增加約 1800 萬美元。

Okay. All right. That's great color. And then I guess just circling back on sort of capital from a different angle. You have that 11% near-term target, 10.5% longer-term target. What would have to happen for you to feel comfortable, I guess, with bring that even maybe down to 10% or so? And should we expect you to be looking at buybacks maybe a little more aggressively here?

好的。好的。顏色真棒。然後我想只是從不同的角度重新討論資本問題。你的近期目標是 11%，長期目標是 10.5%。我想，要怎麼做才能讓您感到舒服，將這一比例降低到 10% 左右？我們是否應該期待您會更積極地考慮回購？

Yeah. I mean I think we're pretty disciplined around our normal capital management program. I think you're right. We're looking at credit moderating. We're still kind of anticipating our best guess right now.

是的。我的意思是，我認為我們對正常的資本管理計劃非常嚴格。我認為你是對的。我們正在考慮信貸調節。我們現在仍在期待我們的最佳猜測。

I'm always reticent to make predictions on credit and timing, but kind of a mid-25 inflection point on credit. We are sitting at a pretty robust CET1 ratio right now. And we hope for more loan growth. I think we're in line with most of the people that have reported so far and still anticipating kind of mid-single-digit loan growth. If we get a bump in economic activity and loan demand, we'll deploy capital there first.

我總是不願意對信貸和時機做出預測，但 25 年中期是信貸的轉捩點。我們目前的 CET1 比率相當強勁。我們希望貸款進一步成長。我認為，我們與迄今為止大多數報告的人一致，仍然預計貸款將出現中等個位數成長。如果我們的經濟活動和貸款需求出現成長，我們將首先在那裡部署資本。

We have an opportunity to enhance our healthcare franchise. For example, we do another tuck-in acquisition. But absent use of capital for there, we are in a position where we anticipate that we would return capital to shareholders during the course of 2025.

我們有機會增強我們的醫療保健特許經營權。例如，我們進行了另一次內部收購。但如果不使用資本，我們預計將在 2025 年向股東返還資本。

Matthew Breese, Stephens.

馬修布里斯，史蒂芬斯。

Neal, I was hoping within kind of the margin guide for the year, you could just discuss expectations around deposit costs and betas and maybe some insight as to where deposit costs sit here in mid-January?

尼爾，我希望在年度保證金指南中，您可以討論一下對存款成本和貝塔係數的預期，以及對 1 月中旬存款成本的狀況的一些見解？

Yeah. So Q4, we had deposit costs at 2.2%. As we went into December, we had moved down about 7 basis points to 2.13%. In Q1, we expect that to continue to decline. And we do expect a very strong margin in Q1 with what we're seeing right now.

是的。因此，第四季我們的存款成本為 2.2%。進入12月，我們已下降約7個基點，至2.13%。我們預計第一季這一數字將繼續下降。從目前的情況來看，我們確實預期第一季的利潤率會非常高。

That will tail off a little bit throughout year on the margin side as we add some additional debt and we have a few things happen throughout the year, but we do expect a very strong Q1. Specifically on deposit repricing, we've had some very positive moves.

由於我們增加了一些額外的債務，並且全年都會發生一些事情，因此利潤率全年都會略有下降，但我們確實預計第一季的業績會非常強勁。具體來說，在存款重新定價方面，我們採取了一些非常積極的措施。

And I think as an organization, I have seen some great moves on the commercial side. We have a playbook where we run every quarter -- excuse me, after every cut, we take action. We move down multiple consumer portfolios.

我認為作為一個組織，我已經看到商業方面的一些重大舉措。我們每季都有一份劇本——對不起，每次削減開支後，我們都會採取行動。我們降低了多位消費者的投資組合。

We have a good CD renewal strategy. Kind of cycle to date, we have a beta of approximately 30 basis points on our entire deposit portfolio. And we are anticipating maintaining that at about a 30% level that is what is in our guidance as our terminal beta for this cycle. And as I mentioned before, we expect two cuts, so kind of through those two cuts, we anticipate 30% beta throughout the cycle. So hopefully, that helps address a little bit how we're thinking about our deposit cost pricing.

我們有一個很好的CD更新策略。到目前為止的周期，我們整個存款組合的貝塔係數約為 30 個基點。我們預計該水準將維持在 30% 左右，這也是我們對本週期終端貝塔值的預期。正如我之前提到的，我們預計將有兩次降息，因此透過這兩次降息，我們預計整個週期的貝塔值將達到 30%。所以希望這有助於解決我們對存款成本定價的看法。

Yeah. Very helpful. And then my second one is more strategic. John, understanding some of the more national businesses you've grown and expanded into over the years, I was hoping you could talk a little bit about Webster from a geography standpoint. How happy are you with the current footprint? And might we see you kind of embark on any sort of geography expansion near or medium term? If so, where?

是的。非常有幫助。我的第二個想法更有策略性。約翰，我了解到你這些年來發展和擴展的一些全國性業務，我希望你能從地理的角度談談韋伯斯特。您對目前的足跡滿意嗎？我們是否會看到您在近期或中期內開始進行某種形式的地理擴張？如果有的話，在哪裡？

Yeah, that's an interesting question. I don't think we have any specific plans to sort of take our local businesses outside of our kind of branch footprint, Philadelphia to Boston, which is where we do most of our local commercial real estate, middle market business banking, that kind of activity.

是的，這是一個有趣的問題。我認為，我們沒有任何具體計劃將我們的本地業務拓展到我們的分支機構範圍之外，從費城到波士頓，我們的大部分本地商業房地產、中型市場商業銀行業務以及諸如此類的活動都是在這些地方開展的。

I think we found over time, it's very difficult to be a new entrant and have good credit quality and grow by parachuting people into new markets. I think what we have done differently than others who have taken that approach and opening up LPOs and so forth is, as you mentioned, have a good mix of kind of local, regional, and national businesses. And we're pretty pleased with that.

我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們發現，作為一個新進入者，要想擁有良好的信用質量，並透過將人員空降到新市場來實現成長是非常困難的。我認為，我們與其他採取這種方法並開放 LPO 等方式的公司不同之處在於，正如您所說，我們將本地、區域和全國業務進行了良好的組合。我們對此非常滿意。

So you think about things like we do, all of our sponsor businesses kind of national, public sector finance, ABL, equipment finance are generally national in business. We understand the geographies. We understand the businesses. So I think you probably see us continue to expand some of those more regional and national businesses.

所以你想想我們做的事情，我們所有的贊助業務都是全國性的，公共部門融資、ABL、設備融資一般都是全國性的。我們了解地理。我們了解業務。所以我想你可能會看到我們繼續擴大一些區域性和全國性業務。

And unless and until the M&A environment was ripe and we had really good opportunities to potentially kind of expand our core branch footprint or our local footprint, I think you'd probably see us just continue to invest in our national businesses as our kind of pipeline for geographic expansion.

除非併購環境成熟，我們有真正好的機會擴大我們的核心分支機構或本地分支機構，否則我認為您可能會看到我們繼續投資於我們的全國性業務，作為我們進行地域擴張的管道。

Timur Brazier, Wells Fargo.

帖木兒‧布拉齊爾 (Timur Brazier)，富國銀行。

My first one, I just wanted to circle back on margin. The fourth quarter results, you're kind of near the top end of the range that you already laid out. You mentioned that first quarter is going to be pretty strong again. are we implying that the rest of the year, there's going to be enough pressure to kind of get it back within the range? Or could that range prove to be conservative here?

我的第一個想法只是想回到邊緣。第四季的業績已經接近您先前設定的範圍的最高端。您提到第一季的表現將再次相當強勁。我們是否意味著，今年剩餘時間內，將會有足夠的壓力使其回到這個範圍內？或者這個範圍在這裡是否被證明是保守的？

Yeah. I think we're pretty confident with that 3.35% to 3.40% range. There's obviously a little bit of variability, but the team here has done a great job of positioning us in a very neutral position. And in Q1, we have large inflows of our HSA deposits and some seasonal deposits. So we see a lot of benefit in the beginning of the year.

是的。我認為我們對 3.35% 至 3.40% 的範圍非常有信心。顯然存在一些變化，但這裡的團隊已經很好地將我們置於非常中立的位置。第一季度，我們的 HSA 存款和一些季節性存款流入量很大。因此我們在年初看到了很多好處。

I think our big question that we have going into the year that kind of gets you to the bottom end of our guide and the top end of our guide is DDA growth. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we've returned to growth there.

我認為，我們今年面臨的最大問題是，DDA 成長，這將決定我們指南的底端和頂端。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的，我們已經恢復成長。

And we do expect kind of stable to some level of growth on the DDA side, which will help. We also do have a little bit more long-term debt coming in, in the second half of the year, which puts a little bit of pressure on net interest margin. We're talking a few basis points.

我們確實預計 DDA 方面會實現一定程度的穩定成長，這將有所幫助。今年下半年，我們的長期債務也確實有所增加，這給淨利差帶來了一些壓力。我們正在討論幾個基點。

And then another factor I mentioned last quarter is we also are increasing our cash levels. So very little impact to our net interest income, actually, it's a positive impact, slightly positive, but it will have a kind of a 3 to 5 basis point drag on NIM as we take cash up in the second half of the year also. So kind of wrapping that up, confident in our 3.35% to 3.40% NIM for the year.

我上個季度提到的另一個因素是我們的現金水準也在提高。因此，這對我們的淨利息收入影響很小，實際上，這是一個積極的影響，略微積極，但由於我們在今年下半年也會增加現金，它將對淨利息收入產生 3 到 5 個基點的拖累。所以總結一下，我們對今年的 3.35% 至 3.40% 的淨利息收益率很有信心。

Okay. Great. And then I just wanted to dig in a little bit on credit inflection and how we should think about quantifying that? Does that imply that 25 basis points to 30 basis points that John, you called out as being a normalized level? Is it a step function towards that level kind of off of this current base? And I'm just wondering what your thoughts are around the yield curve. And if rates stay where they are, continue to move higher what kind of tail risk that might attribute to some of your CRE properties?

好的。偉大的。然後，我想深入探討信貸彎曲以及我們應該如何量化它？這是否意味著約翰，您所說的 25 個基點到 30 個基點是正常化程度？它是從目前基礎開始朝那個水平邁進的階躍函數嗎？我只是想知道您對殖利率曲線的看法。如果利率維持在當前水準並繼續走高，這可能會為您的部分商業房地產帶來什麼樣的尾部風險？

Yeah, it's a great question. Obviously, a relatively difficult one to answer with respect to credit cost and provisioning. But if you look at the first three quarters of '24, we were in that 25 basis point to 30 basis point range in terms of charge-offs.

是的，這是一個很好的問題。顯然，就信貸成本和撥備而言，回答這個問題相對困難。但如果你看看24年的前三個季度，我們的沖銷額處於25個基點到30個基點的範圍內。

That's kind of our base case assumption as we go across '25, hoping obviously that we can outperform that over time. And so I think while obviously, the provision itself is also reliant on the Moody's forward outlook of economics.

這是我們邁向 25 年的基本假設，顯然希望我們能隨著時間的推移超越這個假設。因此我認為，雖然很明顯，但該條款本身也依賴穆迪對經濟的前瞻性展望。

What type of credit quality we're onboarding in new originations, the pace of loan growth and so forth. But if you peg it to kind of the charge-off level, I think our expectation is that we'll be somewhere around that 25 basis points to 30 basis points in each of these next quarters and for the full year in '25, with the caveat that we always say because we have a huge commercial banking portfolio, you can get some lumpiness and outperform and underperform in any one given quarter.

我們在新貸款中引入哪種類型的信用品質、貸款成長速度等等。但如果將其與沖銷水平掛鉤，我認為我們的預期是，在接下來的每個季度以及 25 年全年，我們的盈利將在 25 個基點到 30 個基點左右，但我們總是說，因為我們擁有龐大的商業銀行投資組合，所以在任何一個季度，都可能出現一些波動，表現優異或不佳。

So I would -- the way I look at it is the number three quarters of '24 is more of a proxy for what we expect to happen during the course of '25. So if you were pegging that, I think, in our base case models, we're back to the way you envisioned our performance in the first three quarters. Underneath that, right, in terms of risk migration, we did see some green shoots in the fourth quarter just in terms of risk ratings.

因此我會 — — 我的看法是，24 年第三季的數字更能代表我們預期 25 年期間將發生的情況。因此，如果您堅持這一點，我認為，在我們的基本案例模型中，我們將回到您對前三個季度的表現的設想。在此之下，就風險轉移而言，我們確實在第四季度從風險評級方面看到了一些復甦跡象。

So on the C&I side, for example, we moved closer in the direction of more neutral in terms of seeing upgrades and downgrades. We didn't have a big bump in criticized loans in C&I. We think we've gotten our arms around the portfolios that I mentioned earlier. And obviously, we know every credit there. And if you look underneath the actual credit metrics in terms of classified and non-accruals in that office portfolio have actually improved.

因此，以商業和工業方面為例，我們在看待升級和降級方面更加中立。工商企業中受到批評的貸款並沒有大幅增加。我們認為我們已經掌握了我之前提到的投資組合。顯然，我們知道那裡的每一點功勞。如果您仔細查看實際信用指標，您會發現該辦公室投資組合中的分類和非應計項目實際上已經改善。

So what we have left, we feel better about than we did a year ago in terms of what was remaining. So I think there are reasons when we look at our pipeline, and I talked to Jason about this all the time. Obviously, we still think kind of mid-25 as getting sort of a more balanced on upgrades and downgrades in the portfolio, which should have a positive impact on provisioning.

因此，就我們剩下的東西而言，我們比一年前感覺更好。因此，我認為當我們審視我們的管道時是有原因的，而且我一直與傑森談論這個問題。顯然，我們仍然認為 25 中間水準的投資組合在升級和降級方面會更加平衡，這應該會對撥備產生正面影響。

And if we hit that range of charge-offs, you should see provision levels kind of go back to where they were in the first three quarters and hopefully lower over time if we get better economic data and an acceleration of improvement in the portfolio. The good news for us is we're very profitable. We have been even in a high charge-off quarter in the fourth quarter, we had really terrific return profile and good profitability.

如果我們達到該範圍的沖銷額，您應該會看到撥備水平回到前三個季度的水平，而且如果我們獲得更好的經濟數據並且投資組合加速改善，撥備水平有望隨著時間的推移而降低。對我們來說，好消息是我們的利潤非常豐厚。即使在第四季度出現了較高的沖銷額，我們的回報狀況和獲利能力仍然很好。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

John if you look at the guide -- the loan growth guide 4% to 5% last year, I think it was 5% to 7% and that -- the macro kind of worked against you. What was interesting to me is you saw the sponsored book grow in the quarter. And I think that has been a variable for the last year. So can you just give a comment or two on trends in that portfolio?

約翰，如果你看一下指南——去年貸款成長指南為 4% 至 5%，我認為是 5% 至 7%，而且宏觀因素對你不利。令我感興趣的是，你看到本季贊助書籍的數量有所增加。我認為這是去年的變數。那麼您能就該投資組合的趨勢發表一點評論嗎？

Yeah, so -- and I am snake bitten to go out on a limb on these things, Chris. So what I will tell you is that the pipeline is stronger, that we are seeing some more activity. More activity for us is interesting because it not only means more origination, but it means more payoffs because there's more activity in the portfolio with sponsors selling their platform companies when there's an active M&A environment.

是的，所以——克里斯，我冒著危險去做這些事。所以我要告訴你的是，頻道更強大了，我們看到了更多的活動。對我們來說，更多的活動是有趣的，因為它不僅意味著更多的起源，而且意味著更多的回報，因為當存在活躍的併購環境時，贊助商會出售其平台公司，從而導致投資組合中的活動更加活躍。

So if you ask me again not to make a prediction, I feel better about the momentum we have in that business going into '25 with more economic activity, a better M&A environment, and a bigger pipeline.

因此，如果您再次要求我不要做出預測，那麼我對我們進入 25 年的業務勢頭感到更加有信心，因為屆時經濟活動將更加活躍，併購環境將更加良好，渠道也將更加豐富。

But you see in our overall loan growth numbers, I think, still a relatively balanced and conservative view. And interestingly, we only had the benefit of a few banks obviously reporting before us, but it's been interesting to see everybody kind of in this, whether it's 3% to 6%, 4% to 5%, whatever that range is.

但從我們的整體貸款成長數據來看，我認為，這仍然是相對平衡和保守的觀點。有趣的是，顯然只有少數幾家銀行在我們之前提交了報告，但看到所有銀行的利率都處於這個範圍，無論是 3% 到 6%，4% 到 5%，還是其他任何範圍，都很有趣。

And I think it's because there's obviously the Trump bump exuberance that came right after the election. But I think when you look through it, you talk to customers, you look at pipeline, there's a decidedly positive bias and optimism going forward. But I think it's cautious.

我認為這是因為大選結束後立即出現了對川普的狂熱。但我認為，當你仔細查看它、與客戶交談、查看管道時，你會發現對未來有明顯的正面偏見和樂觀態度。但我認為這是謹慎的。

And I think if people feel like it will take time to see how all of these dynamics play out, what happens with tariffs, what happens with rates before people really start investing aggressively. And so that's why I think we still think the best guess is kind of that mid-single digits with a growth perspective. But I am more encouraged by what we're seeing as we head into '25 in the sponsor book than I was a year ago.

我認為，如果人們覺得需要時間來觀察所有這些動態如何發揮作用，關稅會發生什麼變化，利率會發生什麼變化，然後人們才真正開始積極投資。所以我認為我們仍然認為最好的猜測是從成長角度來看的中等個位數。但與一年前相比，我們在贊助商名單中進入 25 年時所看到的情況讓我更加鼓舞。

Okay. Great. I appreciate that. And then in terms of just -- I missed it. I just jumped on a minute late. The capital commentary, Neal, [the 10, 11, going to 10.5] again, forgive me, could you remind me kind of where the buyback stack ranks in terms of priorities? And then I guess, what does it take to get to [10.5]? What would you need to?

好的。偉大的。我很感激。然後就只是而言——我錯過了。我只是晚了一分鐘。資本評論，尼爾，[10、11，將達到 10.5] 再次，請原諒我，您能否提醒我回購堆疊在優先順序方面的排名？然後我想，要怎樣才能[10.5]？你需要做什麼？

Yes. And we just talked about this. So I think you're right. We are in a very strong capital position, right. We're well in excess of our short-term target of 11%. I think that we are more likely than not to be in a position to return capital to shareholders during '25.

是的。我們剛剛討論過這個問題。所以我認為你是對的。我們的資本狀況非常強勁，對吧。我們已遠遠超出 11% 的短期目標。我認為，我們很有可能在25年期間向股東返還資本。

The elements in that are, if loan growth does surprise us to the upside, obviously, that's a priority. We have opportunity to continue to enhance our funding profile through tuck-in acquisitions around Ametros or HSA. That would be a priority use of capital for us.

其中的因素是，如果貸款成長確實令我們感到意外，那麼顯然這是優先事項。我們有機會透過對 Ametros 或 HSA 的附加收購來繼續增強我們的融資狀況。這將是我們優先使用資本的方式。

As we see credit continue to moderate, we'll be more confident. And depending on market conditions, if we do not see loan growth outside of what our current view is on loan growth, then we would be likely to engage in share purchases materially during the course of 2025.

隨著我們看到信貸持續放緩，我們將更加有信心。根據市場情況，如果我們沒有看到超出我們目前對貸款成長看法的貸款成長，那麼我們很可能會在 2025 年期間進行大規模的股票購買。

Given your capital iteration, you could do both, right?

考慮到你的資本迭代，你可以同時做這兩件事，對嗎？

Yes, we can. Yes, we can. And I would say, to your last question, we've actually internally spent a lot of time on this with respect to trying to peg a time or an inflection point where we move to 10.5%. And I think if we do see credit moderate and we see a more normalized operating environment and we get a better sense of what the regulatory landscape looks like for us as '25 progresses, we will be then comfortable to move that capital target ratio down to our long-term 10.5% target.

是的，我們可以。是的，我們可以。我想說，關於你的最後一個問題，我們實際上在內部花了很多時間在這方面嘗試確定一個時間或拐點，以便我們可以達到 10.5%。我認為，如果我們確實看到信貸溫和，看到更正常化的營運環境，隨著 25 年的進展，我們對監管環境有了更好的了解，那麼我們就會樂意將資本目標比率下調至我們的長期目標 10.5%。

Laurie Hunsicker, Seaport.

勞瑞‧亨西克 (Laurie Hunsicker)，海港。

If we can just go back to charge-offs, can you share with us on the charge-off amount, the $61 million or so of commercial net charge-offs, how much of that was office versus how much of that was actually in the healthcare services? And then also just a little bit of comment in terms of -- you had a pretty sharp drop in office linked quarter, which was great, $917 million down to $824 million. How much of that obviously was charge-offs sale? Or what exactly is happening?

如果我們可以回到沖銷問題，您能否與我們分享沖銷金額，約 6,100 萬美元的商業淨沖銷，其中有多少是辦公室費用，有多少實際上是醫療保健服務費用？然後還有一點評論——辦公室相關季度的銷售額大幅下降，從 9.17 億美元下降到 8.24 億美元，這很好。其中有多少顯然是沖銷銷售額？或是究竟發生了什麼事？

Sure. So I would say that it's a relative office -- office-related charge-offs were around $15 million, and the healthcare charges were around $20 million, to give you a sense in that $60 million of the $60 million in charge-offs.

當然。因此，我想說這是一個相對的辦公室——與辦公室相關的沖銷費用約為 1500 萬美元，醫療保健費用約為 2000 萬美元，讓您了解 6000 萬美元沖銷費用中的 6000 萬美元。

The others were smaller contributions, one-offs, fraud, different things that were management and kind of idiosyncratic if you will. Your question on office, we did not have any charges related to loan sales in the quarter. So that was sort of a natural reduction.

其他的則是小額捐款、一次性捐款、詐欺以及管理方面不同的事情，如果你願意的話，可以說是有點特殊了。您關於辦公室的問題是，我們本季沒有任何與貸款銷售相關的費用。所以這是一種自然的減少。

I gave you the charge-off numbers. So the rest of it is good. It's payoffs and pay downs over time. And we definitely saw more activity, which I think portends to support some of our discussions around moderating credit migration and activity. So we are seeing -- we saw a good amount of commercial real estate and C&I payoffs in the quarter.

我給了你沖銷數字。其餘部分都很好。這是隨著時間的推移而產生的收益和損失。我們確實看到了更多的活動，我認為這預示著將支持我們關於調節信貸遷移和活動的一些討論。因此我們看到——本季度我們看到了大量商業房地產和 C&I 收益。

And so that was -- there were more natural remediation, if you will, a natural reduction in the portfolio this quarter, which is good.

所以 — — 如果你願意的話，本季的投資組合有了更多的自然補救措施，自然減少，這是好事。

And then just going back to margin for a moment. Do you have the spot margin for December? And then can you just remind us when exactly in the quarter was the securities restructured?

然後再暫時回到邊緣問題。你們有12月份的現貨保證金嗎？那麼您能否提醒我們一下證券重組具體是在本季的什麼時候進行的？

Yes. The spot margin for December was very strong, as I mentioned earlier, and we were actually at 3.45% for December. And the securities reposition happened kind of middle of the quarter where we saw $1.8 million of positive benefit in the quarter due to the securities reposition.

是的。正如我之前提到的，12 月的現貨利潤率非常高，12 月的實際利潤率為 3.45%。證券重新配置發生在本季中期，由於證券重新配置，我們在本季獲得了 180 萬美元的正收益。

Anthony Elian, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的安東尼·埃利安 (Anthony Elian)。

Your NII guidance assumes two cuts beginning in March. But if we don't get cuts until the second half of this year, could you talk about the impact to the NII guide range you provided?

您的 NII 指導假設從三月開始進行兩次削減。但是，如果我們直到今年下半年才削減開支，您能談談這對您提供的 NII 指導範圍的影響嗎？

Yeah. So we've done a lot of work around that. And as I mentioned earlier on the call, we're positioned fairly neutral for our interest rate sensitivity. And if we -- let's just say we don't get two cuts at all during the year, you're kind of in a plus or minus $10 million range. So it all fits within our guidance.

是的。因此我們圍繞這一點做了很多工作。正如我之前在電話會議上提到的，我們對利率敏感度持中立態度。如果我們——假設我們一年內根本沒有兩次減薪，那麼你的收入就會處於正負 1000 萬美元的範圍內。所以這一切都符合我們的指導。

It isn't a material drive -- I mean those are material numbers, but not a material driver in or outside of our range. We're a little bit more sensitive to longer-term rates where we could see a little bit more benefit if long-term yields pick up, but still positioned fairly neutral there.

這不是一個實質的驅動因素——我的意思是，那些是實質的數字，但不是我們範圍內或範圍外的實質驅動因素。我們對長期利率更為敏感，如果長期收益率上升，我們可能會看到更多收益，但我們仍保持相當中性的立場。

Then my follow-up on your loan growth guide of 4% to 5%, is that back half weighted? Or do you expect continued growth in the first half? And I know you mentioned diversified sources of loan growth. But can you just talk about specific areas and portfolios you expect to drive loan growth this year?

那麼我對您 4% 至 5% 的貸款成長指南的後續問題，這是後半部分加權的嗎？或者您預計上半年會繼續成長嗎？我知道您提到了貸款成長來源多元化。但您能談談您預計今年推動貸款成長的具體領域和組合嗎？

Sure. I would say, number one, it's more seasonal than kind of back end into the fourth quarter is generally slower for us. And so I would think that off of that, you'd see growth for the remainder of the year. I think when you look at our portfolio, we're assuming growth across categories. Obviously, we've spent a lot of time.

當然。我想說，第一，這更具季節性，第四季度的後端業務對我們來說通常會比較慢。因此我認為，基於此，今年剩餘時間將會成長。我想當你看看我們的投資組合時，我們假設各個類別都在成長。顯然，我們花費了很多時間。

We are two quarters ahead in our commercial real estate concentration reduction. We're now at that [250] target. We are seeing more payoffs there. So we are in the commercial real estate business, and we have capacity to replace what's rolling off. And even quarter-to-quarter, potentially have some growth in commercial real estate, but that should grow more slowly than our C&I categories.

我們在商業房地產集中度降低方面領先了兩個季度。我們現在已經達到了[250]的目標。我們在那裡看到了更多的回報。因此，我們從事商業房地產業務，並且有能力取代正在流失的業務。甚至逐季來看，商業房地產也可能有所成長，但成長速度應該比我們的 C&I 類別慢。

Otherwise, it's across sponsor, it's across our national businesses, it's across regional middle market, business banking, and mortgage as well on the consumer side.

否則，它就跨越贊助商、跨越我們的全國業務、跨越區域中端市場、商業銀行和抵押貸款以及消費者方面。

Nick Holowko, UBS.

瑞銀的尼克·霍洛科（Nick Holowko）。

Maybe just to start coming back to the expense outlook and thinking about the investment spend related to the regulatory front, if it did become clear that there were going to be more meaningful changes in the regulatory backdrop, how would that change how you're thinking about the $40 million to $60 million in incremental run rate expenses?

也許只是開始回到費用前景並思考與監管方面相關的投資支出，如果確實清楚監管背景將會發生更有意義的變化，那麼您對 4000 萬至 6000 萬美元增量運行率費用的看法會如何改變？

Yeah. It's a great question. And I think what I'd say, and then I'll turn it over to Neal to actually answer the hard part of the question. One of the things we're doing as we build out our road map here, if we are taking into consideration the fact that there may be changes the elimination of some requirements.

是的。這是一個很好的問題。我想說的是，然後我會把它交給尼爾來真正回答這個問題的難點部分。我們在製定路線圖時所做的事情之一就是，考慮到可能會發生一些變化，取消一些要求。

And so what we're doing is all the investments we're making in '25 are clearly important investments for us to make, and you would want us to make as an analyst or as an investor to continue to build out the resiliency and the strength of the infrastructure of the bank, both on the risk side, on a technology side, on a data side.

因此，我們所做的是，我們在 25 年進行的所有投資顯然都是重要的投資，作為分析師或投資者，您希望我們繼續增強銀行基礎設施的彈性和實力，包括風險方面、技術方面和數據方面。

And what we're back ending in our prioritization and our Gantt chart are those that may not be required or could change with respect to the dynamics or the extent to which we need to invest. So I think for us, many of these investments that are there, we're making regardless of what the Category 4 requirements are.

我們在優先排序和甘特圖中最後提到的那些可能不是必需的，或者可能會根據我們需要投資的動態或程度而改變的。因此我認為，對於我們來說，許多此類投資都是無論第 4 類要求是什麼我們都在進行的。

And then we're trying to back end and kind of deprioritize in our three-year journey, those investments that we may be able to pull back because they're either more check the box or perfunctory or we don't think they add significant value to the strength of our franchise. So I don't know whether Neal will be able to give you kind of dollars there. It's very difficult, like things like TLAC are obvious, right?

然後，我們試圖在三年的征程中結束並降低那些我們可能會撤回的投資的優先級，因為它們要么更多的是勾選框，要么是敷衍了事，或者我們認為它們不會為我們的特許經營實力增添重大價值。所以我不知道尼爾是否能給你一些美元。這非常困難，就像 TLAC 之類的事情很明顯一樣，對吧？

If you don't have to issue TLAC that's a savings. But the other stuff is sort of nuanced, and I don't know whether we'd be prepared to tell you what savings we would have based on what regulatory changes are there.

如果您不必發行 TLAC，那麼您就可以節省開支。但其他的事情有點微妙，我不知道我們是否願意告訴你根據監管變化我們可以節省多少錢。

Yeah. I don't think we have specific dollars tied to different rules or potential changes, and I don't think I could have said any better than what John said, so I don't have much else to add.

是的。我認為我們沒有與不同規則或潛在變化相關的特定資金，而且我認為我的回答不可能比約翰更好，所以我沒有什麼可補充的。

Perfect. And then maybe coming back to another strategy-related question. Last year, you had the announced JV with Marathon to get involved in the direct lending arena. Is that partnership now up and running? And is there any potential that it could be incremental to how you're thinking about growth in 2025?

完美的。然後也許會回到另一個與戰略相關的問題。去年，你們宣布與 Marathon 建立合資企業，進軍直接貸款領域。這種合作關係現在已經開始了嗎？它是否有可能對您所設想的 2025 年的成長產生增量作用？

Right. Great question. We anticipate the partnership to be alive and active in 2Q. That's our best guess. We're still bullish. I will tell you that there is no economic advantage or value added into our current guidance.

正確的。好問題。我們預計該合作關係將在第二季恢復並活躍。這是我們最好的猜測。我們依然樂觀。我會告訴你，我們的當前指導並沒有任何經濟優勢或附加價值。

We want to be able to, once we're up and running, get a good insight as to what that will mean for loan growth, loan balances and investment income to us, which will obviously be delayed from the opening. But we are still excited about it, but it doesn't drive any meaningful economics in our guidance. So it's potential upside.

我們希望，一旦我們開始運營，就能很好地了解這將對我們的貸款成長、貸款餘額和投資收益意味著什麼，而這顯然會從開業開始推遲。但我們對此仍感到興奮，但在我們的指導中它不會帶來任何有意義的經濟效益。因此，它具有潛在的上升空間。

Bernard Von Gizycki, Deutsche Bank.

伯納德·馮·吉茲基，德意志銀行。

Just on expenses. Appreciate the color on the $15 million to $20 million of large bank costs incorporated in the '25 guide. Could you just provide any additional color on the contributions of expense growth? John, you noted the focus on the initiatives growing Ametros. Maybe how much growth is related there or what other incremental investments you're making? Just any color you can provide on the contributions.

只是費用方面。欣賞 25 年指南中納入的 1500 萬至 2000 萬美元大型銀行成本的細節。您能否就費用增長的貢獻提供更多詳細資訊？約翰，你注意到了對發展 Ametros 計畫的關注。也許這與多少成長有關或您正在進行哪些其他增量投資？您可以為貢獻提供任何顏色。

Yeah. I'll take -- provide some comments there. So we have, I would say, around $30 million year over year, really supporting the business lines with some good healthy investments in areas that such as Ametros that we have strong growth expectations. We talked about our Category 4. We're also investing -- continuing to invest in our technology infrastructure.

是的。我會在那裡提供一些評論。因此，我想說，我們每年大約有 3000 萬美元的投資，真正支持了業務線，在 Ametros 等我們有強勁增長預期的領域進行了一些良好的健康投資。我們討論了我們的第 4 類。我們也在投資——繼續投資我們的技術基礎設施。

And you also asked some things like annual merit and benefit and payroll taxes and some of those types of expenses. But I would say that the three biggest areas of focus investment would be on our preparation for Category 4, continuing to support our business lines and our client experience, and then really continuing to invest in our technology and infrastructure to prepare for future growth.

您還詢問了一些問題，例如年度績效和福利以及工資稅以及一些此類費用。但我想說，最大的三個重點投資領域是我們對第 4 類的準備、繼續支持我們的業務線和客戶體驗，以及繼續投資我們的技術和基礎設施，為未來的成長做好準備。

Okay. Great. And then just on the deposits. I know there were some contributions from the 1031 exchange relationships you noted. Was that more seasonal, like more [forward] to you? What are expectations for growing that maybe in '25? And then just some commentary on the digital channels. It seems you're leaning in there. Just any thoughts on growth and how the cost of those deposits from that platform kind of play out?

好的。偉大的。然後只談存款。我知道您提到的 1031 交換關係做出了一些貢獻。對你來說，這是否更具季節性，更具[前瞻性]？對 25 年的成長有何預期？然後只是一些關於數位頻道的評論。看起來你正倚在那裡。您對於成長以及該平台存款成本如何發揮作用有什麼看法？

Yeah. On the 1031 side, it was back ended in 2024 and activity there is going to be driven by whatever happens broadly in commercial real estate activity. So if we get back to a place where there's more buys and sells and more transaction activity, you're going to see naturally some -- we have good relationships there, and you're going to start seeing properties exchanging and so forth. So 1031 business should be -- should grow in 2025 relative to where it was today. On the digital channel side, we had good solid growth this year.

是的。就 1031 而言，它將於 2024 年結束，那裡的活動將受到商業房地產活動的廣泛影響。因此，如果我們回到一個買賣更多、交易活動更多的地方，你自然會看到一些——我們在那裡有良好的關係，你會開始看到房產交換等等。因此，1031 業務到 2025 年應該會相對於現在有所成長。在數位管道方面，我們今年取得了良好的穩健成長。

And I'd really say that across the board, when you set aside consumer and commercial, and you just look at what we did on the digital, on the healthcare and broadly on the healthcare side, we anticipate that '25 is going to be in line or better than what we did in 2024, and we've made a fair amount of investments across the board in all of those business lines to ensure that we stay competitive. The product offering is good. The pricing and service proposition is working really well. We're pretty excited about what we can do in those diversified deposit verticals across each and every one of them.

我想說的是，從整體上看，當你拋開消費者和商業領域，只看我們在數位、醫療保健和廣泛醫療保健方面所做的事情，我們預計 2025 年的表現將與 2024 年持平或更好，而且我們在所有這些業務線上都進行了大量的投資，以確保我們保持競爭力。所提供的產品很好。定價和服務主張確實效果很好。我們對於在每一個多元化存款垂直領域所能做的事情感到非常興奮。

Ben Gerlinger, Citigroup.

花旗集團的本‧格林格 (Ben Gerlinger)。

Those expenses are the [wall of worry] for you guys. It seems like the guidance here is pretty reasonable, so a better upside on revenue. I know you gave the guidance of $15 million to $20 million for incremental just preparation [can be a step] forward. I said rules don't change, i.e., the steady state, is it fair to kind of think that's like [17.5] incremental is '26 and '27 as well on a three-year outlook? Or is it kind of frontloaded? I'm just trying to do sound like assuming rules don't change in this sense.

這些費用就是你們的「煩惱之牆」。這裡的指導似乎是相當合理的，因此收入有更好的上升空間。我知道您給了 1500 萬到 2000 萬美元的指導金額，用於逐步進行準備工作（可以向前邁出一步）。我說規則不會改變，也就是穩定狀態，從三年前景來看，[17.5] 的增量是否等於 '26 年和 '27 年？或者說它是一種前置負載？我只是想聽起來像是假設規則在這個意義上不會改變。

You're breaking up a little bit, but I think I got your question. And so our assumption of the $40 million to $60 million is based on rules as they stand today. We are looking -- when we talked about $15 million to $20 million in 2025. As you play that out, obviously, we'll analyze things again at the end of next year and as we go through. But I see it more as a stair step build than big fluctuations in either direction.

你有點崩潰了，但我想我明白你的問題了。因此，我們對 4,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元的假設是基於現有的規則。當我們談到 2025 年的 1500 萬到 2000 萬美元時，我們正在展望。當你完成這一切時，顯然，我們會在明年年底和之後再次分析事情。但我認為這更像是一種階梯式的構建，而不是任何一個方向上的大幅波動。

So I think you could kind of count on a current plan of being more in line stair step versus having any unusual fluctuations. And hopefully, I answered your question correctly there based on what I heard.

因此，我認為您可以依靠目前的計劃，即更符合階梯式的發展，而不是出現任何異常波動。希望我能根據所聽到的內容正確回答您的問題。

That was kind of the point that I know if one year could be a little bit less than the other, but it makes a lot of sense. And then with that, do you think there's any synergies? Or is that kind of that $40 million to $60 million a net number? Like if you at least spend $10 million on investments, you could save $5 million somewhere else. You're counting that $10 million or would it be the net number that we should be -- this $40 million to $60 million is net of all the above?

我知道這有點像是一年比另一年少一點，但這很有意義。那麼，您認為這兩者之間有協同效應嗎？或者說 4,000 萬到 6,000 萬美元是淨數字嗎？例如，如果你至少花費 1000 萬美元進行投資，那麼你就可以在其他地方節省 500 萬美元。您算的是那 1000 萬美元嗎，還是我們應該算的淨額——這 4000 萬到 6000 萬美元是減去以上所有金額的淨額？

Yeah. I would say it's a net number. And you asked, I think, about synergies also in there's some, John mentioned, you could put these expenses in different buckets. Some of them may be a check the box needed for a regulatory compliance item. But we do believe, as John mentioned, many of these expenditures will make us a more efficient and effective organization.

是的。我想說這是一個淨數字。我認為，您問到的協同效應也涉及其中，約翰提到，你可以將這些費用放在不同的類別中。其中一些可能是監管合規項目所需的複選框。但我們確實相信，正如約翰所提到的，這些支出中的許多將使我們成為一個更有效率、更有效的組織。

As we go deeper on some capital areas, we'll have opportunities to optimize our capital stack. As we continue to invest in the liquidity side, we'll be able to optimize and even increase our liquidity level from today.

隨著我們對一些資本領域的深入研究，我們將有機會優化我們的資本堆疊。隨著我們繼續在流動性方面進行投資，從今天起我們將能夠優化甚至提高我們的流動性水平。

As we invest in the technology infrastructure data, we should get more operating efficiencies going forward. So I do look at these as expenses that will make us a better bank and perform better in the long run. And also meet the requirements that are needed to become a Category 4 bank.

隨著我們對技術基礎設施數據的投資，我們將來應該會獲得更高的營運效率。因此我確實認為這些費用將使我們成為一家更好的銀行並從長遠來看表現更好。並且滿足成為四類銀行所需的要求。

Daniel Tamayo, Raymond James.

丹尼爾塔馬約、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Most of my questions have been asked and answered. But maybe just a couple of specific ones. First, you talked about the 30% deposit beta assumption for the rate cut cycle. And I think you've talked about kind of what you're thinking in terms of maybe the non-interest-bearing not getting back to where it was pre cycle.

我的大部分問題都已得到解答。但也許只是幾個具體的例子。首先，您談到了降息週期的30%存款貝塔係數假設。我想您已經談到了您對無息貸款可能不會回到週期前的水平的想法。

Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But just curious on kind of what's underlying that assumption given the beta was higher, about 40% on the way up? And maybe what could improve that projection from the 30%?

如果我錯了，請糾正我。但只是好奇，鑑於貝塔係數較高，大約上升了 40%，這種假設背後的原因是什麼？那麼，有什麼辦法可以將這項預測從 30% 提高呢？

Yeah. Very, very fair question. We were above 40% on the way up. As I mentioned, our guidance has 30% in 2025 on the way down. We look at a 4% neutral environment very differently than the 0% environment that we came out of.

是的。非常非常公平的問題。我們的成長率超過了40%。正如我所提到的，我們的預期是 2025 年將下降 30%。我們對 4% 中性環境的看法與我們剛剛經歷的 0% 環境截然不同。

And I think that the big question mark we have out there is exactly what you hit where do DDA balances land? As I mentioned, our guide has modest growth in DDA balances compared to the decline that we had last year. If that accelerates, I believe we can beat that deposit, that beta. But I think we have a reasonable assumption and a reasonable beta in for our baseline guidance here.

我認為我們面臨的最大問題是，您到底擊中了 DDA 餘額的哪個位置？正如我所提到的，與去年的下降相比，我們的指南中的 DDA 餘額略有增長。如果這個速度加快的話，我相信我們能夠打敗那筆存款，打敗那個測試版。但我認為，我們對基準指導有一個合理的假設和合理的貝塔值。

Okay. I appreciate that. And then as we think kind of longer term around the margin, you talked about the new forecast 3.35% to 3.40% this year. You're making changes to the balance sheet as you get larger, you talked about adding debt. I mean is that reasonable kind of assumption for a normalized margin you think for you guys at this point as you look to the future?

好的。我很感激。然後，當我們考慮長期邊際時，您談到了今年的新預測 3.35％至 3.40％。隨著規模的擴大，你會對資產負債表做出一些調整，你談到了增加債務。我的意思是，當您展望未來時，您認為這對於目前的標準化利潤率假設是否合理？

Obviously, there's a lot of things that can change. But given kind of a normal yield curve and where you envision the balance sheet ending by the end of the year, does that seem like a reasonable place for the margin to kind of stabilize?

顯然，有很多事情可以改變。但是，考慮到正常的殖利率曲線以及您預計到年底資產負債表的結束位置，這似乎是利潤率穩定的合理水平嗎？

Yeah. Clearly, a lot of variables out there that can move things around. But as we mentioned, we we've done all we can to position as neutrally as possible. And we do believe your statement is correct that, that is a good kind of midterm margin level to think about our organization having.

是的。顯然，有很多變數可以改變事態。但正如我們所提到的，我們已盡一切努力保持盡可能中立的立場。我們確實相信您的說法是正確的，這對我們的組織來說是一種很好的中期利潤水平。

John Arfstrom, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的約翰‧阿夫斯特羅姆 (John Arfstrom)。

Can you touch a little bit -- you mentioned -- I think you mentioned green shoots in office, and you talked about some stabilization there. Can you give us some examples of what you're seeing happening and maybe your confidence that the worst is over there?

您能否稍微談談——您提到過——我想您提到過辦公室裡的綠芽，並且您談到了那裡的一些穩定性。您能否給我們舉一些例子，說明您所看到的情況，並說明您認為最糟糕的情況已經發生？

Yeah, I mean, I guess what we're seeing -- I mentioned earlier, we're definitely seeing more natural resolution to credits. We're seeing restructuring and amendments to deals where borrowers feel like they've got equity still in the building, so they're willing to rightsize the loan.

是的，我的意思是，我想我們看到的是——我之前提到過，我們確實看到了更自然的信貸解決方案。我們看到交易的重組和修訂，借款人覺得他們仍然擁有資產，所以他們願意調整貸款規模。

And so I would just say the borrower behavior and some of what we're seeing in terms of refinancings away from us paydowns and payoffs give us a pretty good indication. And then just basically if you look at the level of classified criticized and non-accruals in the office portfolio, they've come down.

因此，我想說，借款人的行為以及我們所看到的再融資、還款和償付方面的一些情況給了我們一個很好的跡象。那麼基本上，如果您查看辦公室投資組合中分類批評和不提列的水平，您會發現它們已經下降了。

They've come down as a result, unfortunately, right, through charge-offs over time, but they've also come down because of some of these refinancings, restructures and refinancing. So we've seen an absolute change kind of in some behaviors.

不幸的是，隨著時間的推移，它們的信用額度透過沖銷下降了，但同時也因為一些再融資、重組和再融資而下降了。因此，我們看到某些行為發生了絕對的變化。

And that's to say -- not to say that we still don't have heightened levels of classified and non-accruals in the office portfolio and that we're still kind of working through it. But we do think that we've kind of turned the corner and that the existing portfolio we have there now is stronger than the portfolio we had, say, at the beginning of last year.

也就是說——並不是說我們辦公室投資組合中的機密和非應計專案水準沒有提高，而是我們仍在努力解決這個問題。但我們確實認為，我們已經扭轉了局面，而且我們現在的投資組合比去年年初的投資組合更強大。

Okay. Good. That's helpful. Follow-up on Mark's question, the first one. Is there anything else other than Category 4 from a regulatory point of view that's on your wish list for the new administration or regulatory leadership?

好的。好的。這很有幫助。跟進馬克的第一個問題。從監管角度來看，除了第 4 類以外，您對新政府或監管領導層還有什麼其他的期望嗎？

Yeah. We only have a few minutes left, so I can't actually go off on a nice diatribe there. But I guess what I would say probably consistent with what a lot of CEOs would tell you is I love to see a return to more tailored supervision.

是的。我們只剩下幾分鐘了，所以我實際上不能在那裡發表長篇大論。但我想我要說的可能與許多執行長所說的一致，那就是我希望看到回歸更加客製化的監管。

And I think that probably captures everything, which is look at organizations, not based on artificial cutoffs of asset size or other things like that and come with a philosophy that you supervise banks commensurate with the risk profile and the activities they engage in. So I think that we're at $80 billion now.

我認為這大概涵蓋了所有內容，即審視組織時，不基於資產規模或其他類似因素的人為限制，而是秉持一種理念，即對銀行的監管應與銀行的風險狀況和所從事的活動相稱。所以我認為現在我們的資金量是 800 億美元。

I don't think that if we're at $105 billion and we keep our same activity base in our same line of businesses and our same infrastructure that all of a sudden, we create more systemic risk to the system or that we're any riskier. So maybe some lifting of artificial asset size thresholds would be terrific. That may be a bridge too far. But overall, just more tailored supervisory paradigm. And I think we'll get some of that, but I think it will take some time.

我認為，如果我們的資產規模達到 1,050 億美元，並且我們保持相同的活動基礎、相同的業務線和相同的基礎設施，那麼我們不會突然為系統帶來更多的系統性風險，也不會讓我們的風險變得更大。因此，或許取消一些人為設定的資產規模門檻會是件好事。這也許太過分了。但總體而言，這只是更有針對性的監管模式。我認為我們會得到一些，但我認為這需要一些時間。

And that concludes our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the call back over to CEO, John Ciulla, for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在，我將電話轉回給執行長 John Ciulla，請他致最後總結。

Thank you very much, everyone, for joining us today. I hope you have a great day. Thanks.

非常感謝大家今天的參加。祝您有個愉快的一天。謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。