Western Alliance Bancorp (WAL) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day everyone. Welcome to Western Alliance Bank Corporation's third-quarter 2025 earnings call.

大家好。歡迎參加西部聯盟銀行公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

You may also view the presentation today via webcast through the company's website at www.westernalliancebancorporation.com.

今天您也可以透過公司網站 www.westernalliancebancorporation.com 觀看網路直播示範。

I would now like to turn the call over to Miles Pondelik, Director of Investor Relations and Corporate Development. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給投資者關係和企業發展總監邁爾斯·龐德利克。請繼續。

Thank you. Welcome to Western Alliance Bank's third-quarter 2025 conference call.

謝謝。歡迎參加西部聯盟銀行2025年第三季電話會議。

Our speakers today are Ken Vecchione, President and Chief Executive Officer and Dale Gibbons, Chief Financial Officer.

今天我們的演講嘉賓是總裁兼執行長 Ken Vecchione 和財務長 Dale Gibbons。

Before I hand the call over to Ken, please note that today's presentation contains forward-looking statements which are subject to risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. Except is required by law, the company does not undertake any obligation to update any forward-looking statements. For more complete discussion of the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from any forward-looking statements, please refer to the company's SEC filings, including the Form 8-K filed yesterday, which are available on the company's website.

在我將電話交給 Ken 之前，請注意，今天的演示包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響。除法律要求外，本公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。有關可能導致實際結果與任何前瞻性聲明存在重大差異的風險和不確定性的更完整討論，請參閱公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括昨天提交的 8-K 表格，這些文件可在公司網站上查閱。

Now for opening remarks, I'd like to turn the call over to Ken Vecchione.

現在，我把電話交給 Ken Vecchione，請他致開幕詞。

Thanks, Miles. Good afternoon, everyone.

謝謝你，邁爾斯。大家下午好。

I'll make some brief comments about our third-quarter performance before handing the call over to Dale to discuss our financial results and drivers in more detail. I'll then close our prepared remarks by reviewing our updated outlook for the remainder of 2025.

在將電話交給戴爾，讓他更詳細地討論我們的財務表現和驅動因素之前，我將簡要評論我們第三季的業績。最後，我將回顧我們對 2025 年剩餘時間的最新展望，以結束我們準備好的發言。

As usual, our Chief Banking Officer for regional banking, Tim Bruckner, will then join us for Q&A. And also sitting in today is Vishal Idnani, who recently joined the team as he and Dale begin their CFO transition.

照例，我們的區域銀行業務首席銀行官蒂姆·布魯克納隨後將與我們一起進行問答環節。今天一同出席的還有 Vishal Idnani，他最近加入了團隊，他和 Dale 即將開始他們的財務長過渡工作。

Western Alliance continued our solid business momentum in the third quarter that generated record net [revenue] (technical difficulty) and pre-provision net revenue of $938 million and $394 million, respectively. Healthy and broad-based balance sheet growth, especially with $6.1 billion in deposits along with stable net interest margins, supported a 30% linked quarter annualized expansion in net interest income.

Western Alliance 在第三季繼續保持穩健的業務勢頭，實現了創紀錄的淨收入（技術困難）和撥備前淨收入，分別為 9.38 億美元和 3.94 億美元。健康且基礎廣泛的資產負債表增長，尤其是 61 億美元的存款以及穩定的淨息差，支撐了淨利息收入環比增長 30%。

Firming mortgage banking revenue from lower rates bolstered a $40-million increase in non-interest income. This contributed to a high operating leverage as our efficiency ratio improved almost 3% in the quarter to 57.4%. The adjusted efficiency ratio, excluding ECR deposit costs dropped below 50%.

抵押貸款銀行業務收入因利率下降而走強，帶動非利息收入增加 4,000 萬美元。這使得我們的營運槓桿率較高，本季效率比率提高了近 3%，達到 57.4%。扣除 ECR 存款成本後，調整後的效率比率降至 50% 以下。

In total, Western Alliance generated EPS of $2.28 and improved profitability with return on average assets of 1.13% and return on average tangible common equity of 15.6%. CET1 grew to 11.3% as we moved our loan loss reserve to 78 basis points from 71 basis points in the previous quarter. Asset quality performed in line with guidance as total criticized assets declined 17% with reductions in three of the four major subcategories and net charge-offs of 22 basis points.

西部聯盟的總每股收益為 2.28 美元，獲利能力有所提高，平均資產回報率為 1.13%，平均有形普通股回報率為 15.6%。由於我們將貸款損失準備金從上一季的 71 個基點提高到 78 個基點，CET1 成長至 11.3%。資產品質表現符合預期，受批評資產總額下降 17%，四大主要子類別中有三個類別下降，淨沖銷額為 22 個基點。

In light of the recent news regarding two credit relationships, let me address those head on because I and the entire Western Alliance management team take these and any potential credit migrations extremely seriously. You have heard me say previously early identification and elevation are the hallmarks of our credit migration strategy to protect collateral and minimize potential losses, and that's what's paying dividends now.

鑑於最近有關兩筆信貸關係的新聞，我想正面回應一下，因為我和整個西部聯盟管理團隊都非常重視這些以及任何潛在的信貸遷移。你們之前都聽我說過，早期識別和提升是我們的信用遷移策略的標誌，目的是保護抵押品並最大限度地減少潛在損失，而現在，這正是帶來回報的原因。

For the $98.5 million note finance loan to Cantor Group V, which was the subject of our October 16 [8K], we believe our circumstances are different than other organizations and that our loan to this specific investment vehicle is secured by loans with a perfected interest in the CRE properties. We have confirmed our lien position through lien searches and title company verification. However, we have determined that in some cases, we are junior to other lenders in violation of the credit agreement, hence our allegation of fraud.

對於我們 10 月 16 日 [8K] 文件中提及的向 Cantor Group V 提供的 9850 萬美元票據融資貸款，我們認為我們的情況與其他機構不同，並且我們向該特定投資工具提供的貸款由具有商業地產完善權益的貸款擔保。我們已透過留置權查詢和產權公司核實確認了我們的留置權地位。然而，我們發現，在某些情況下，我們的償還順序低於其他貸款人，這違反了信貸協議，因此我們提出了詐欺指控。

Although the most recent appraisals indicate sufficient collateral coverage, our reserve methodology for a $98-million non-accrual loan resulted in a reserve of $30 million. This reserve and our portfolio's qualitative overlays raised total loan ACL to funded loans ratio to 85 basis points. We believe the collateral coverage, limited and unlimited springing guarantees as well as up to a $25 million -- as well as up to $25 million of insurance coverage for mortgage fraud losses, we'll cover losses from this credit, if any. Excluding this fraud, non-accrual loans would have remained flat.

儘管最近的評估表明抵押品覆蓋率充足，但我們對 9800 萬美元非應計貸款的準備金方法得出的準備金為 3000 萬美元。此儲備金和我們投資組合的定性調整使貸款總額與已發放貸款的比率提高到 85 個基點。我們相信，抵押品保障、有限且無限的觸發擔保以及高達 2,500 萬美元的抵押貸款詐欺損失保險，將彌補由此信貸造成的任何損失。如果排除這起詐欺事件，非應計貸款將維持不變。

Once learning of the fraud, we initiated a title review of our $2-billion note finance portfolio. To date, we have re-verified titles and liens for all notes greater than $10 million and have found no irregularities and are in the process of confirming titles for more granular notes. No additional derogatory filings or lien discrepancies have been discovered date. While incredibly frustrating, we believe this is a one-off issue in our note finance business and have adjusted our onboarding and ongoing portfolio monitoring practices.

得知詐欺行為後，我們立即對我們價值 20 億美元的票據融資組合啟動了產權審查。到目前為止，我們已經重新核實了所有超過 1000 萬美元的票據的所有權和留置權，沒有發現任何違規行為，目前正在確認更細化票據的所有權。截至目前，尚未發現其他不利的備案或留置權差異。雖然這令人非常沮喪，但我們相信這只是我們票據融資業務中的一個個別問題，我們已經調整了客戶准入和持續的投資組合監控流程。

Regarding our ABL facility to Leucadia Asset Management subsidiary Point Bonita Fund1 as of October 20th. The current balance stands at $168 million with a loan to value of below 20%. This facility is backed by $189 million in accounts receivable from investment-grade retailers led by Walmart, AutoZone, O'Reilly Auto Parts, NAPA, and other investment grade borrowers. None of these companies have disavowed their obligations. The loan remains current and we continue to receive principal and interest payments as modeled.

關於我們截至 10 月 20 日向 Leucadia Asset Management 子公司 Point Bonita Fund1 提供的 ABL 融資安排。目前餘額為 1.68 億美元，貸款價值比低於 20%。該融資計劃由沃爾瑪、AutoZone、O'Reilly Auto Parts、NAPA 等投資級零售商以及其他投資級借款人提供的 1.89 億美元應收帳款支持。這些公司均未否認其應盡的義務。貸款目前仍處於正常狀態，我們繼續按計劃收到本金和利息。

Jefferies has publicly stated they feel confident in Point Bonita's near-term ability to pay off all debt due to the diverse set of assets apart from the first brands related receivables. Jefferies remains confident, and so do we. Overall, this is part of a small ABL portfolio of approximately $500 million and we do not see any other similar risks for this well secured structured facility. As further support, we have investment-grade obligors that cover our loan balance greater than 4 times.

傑富瑞公開表示，由於 Point Bonita 除了與第一品牌相關的應收帳款之外還擁有多元化的資產，因此他們對 Point Bonita 近期償還所有債務的能力充滿信心。傑富瑞依然充滿信心，我們也是。總體而言，這只是規模約 5 億美元的小型 ABL 投資組合的一部分，我們認為這種結構完善、安全可靠的融資安排不存在其他類似風險。此外，我們還有投資等級借款人，其償付能力足以覆蓋我們貸款餘額的 4 倍以上。

As a reference point, it's important to remember we have operated in private credit business for over 15 years. We view our underwriting expertise, ability to evaluate structured credit, and sophisticated approach to minimizing uncovered risks through strong collateral with low advance rates as core competencies of the bank that prevent and mitigate losses.

作為參考，需要記住的是，我們從事私人信貸業務已有 15 年以上。我們認為，我們的承銷專業知識、評估結構化信貸的能力以及透過強有力的抵押品和低貸款率來最大限度降低未覆蓋風險的複雜方法，是銀行預防和減輕損失的核心競爭力。

Over the past 5 and 10 years, our net annual charge-offs averaged just 10 and 8 basis points respectively, placing us among the top 5 US banks with assets greater than $50 billion. Our deep sector expertise in these areas will continue to separate Western Alliance from our peers and enable us to deliver superior commercial banking services to our clients.

過去 5 年和 10 年，我們的年度淨沖銷率平均分別為 10 個基點和 8 個基點，使我們躋身資產超過 500 億美元的美國前 5 家銀行之列。我們在這些領域的深厚專業知識將繼續使西部聯盟銀行區別於同行，並使我們能夠為客戶提供卓越的商業銀行服務。

And now Dale will take you through the results in more detail.

現在戴爾將更詳細地為大家介紹結果。

Thank you, Ken. I'd first like to start, just clarify one comment that Ken made. The facility from Leucadia Asset Management, the collateral behind our loan amount is $890 million. That's how you get to this 19% advance rate on the total.

謝謝你，肯。首先，我想澄清一下 Ken 的一則評論。我們從 Leucadia Asset Management 獲得了一筆貸款，貸款金額的抵押物為 8.9 億美元。這樣就能得出總貸款額19%的預付款比例。

Looking closer at the income statement, net interest income of $750 million, grew $53 million or 8% quarter over quarter as a result of solid organic loan growth and higher average earning asset balances. Non-interest income rose nearly 27% from Q2 to $188 million, led by firming mortgage banking results as AmeriHome grew revenue $17 million quarter over quarter.

仔細觀察損益表可知，淨利息收入為 7.5 億美元，環比增長 5300 萬美元，增幅達 8%，這得益於穩健的內生貸款增長和更高的平均盈利資產餘額。非利息收入較第二季度增長近 27%，達到 1.88 億美元，這主要得益於抵押貸款業務的穩健增長，AmeriHome 的收入環比增長了 1700 萬美元。

Overall, lower mortgage spreads and rate volatility are beginning to improve home affordability and demand for adjustable rate mortgages in particular. Loan production volume increased 13% year over year and the gain on sale margin improved 7 basis points to 27%.

總體而言，抵押貸款利差和利率波動性的降低開始改善住房負擔能力，尤其對可調利率抵押貸款的需求有所提高。貸款發放量較去年同期成長 13%，銷售利潤率提高 7 個基點至 27%。

Non-interest expenses increased $30 million from the prior quarter to $544 million, mostly from the normal seasonally elevated balances and average ECR-related deposits in advance of tax and insurance payments made in the fourth quarter.

非利息支出比上一季增加了 3000 萬美元，達到 5.44 億美元，主要來自正常的季節性高餘額以及第四季度稅款和保險費支付前的平均 ECR 相關存款。

Overall, we delivered solid operating leverage this quarter with net revenue growing nearly 11%, which outpaced sub-6% growth in non-interest expense. Similarly, net interest income, inclusive of deposit costs rose 5% or $25 million over the prior quarter, driving an adjusted efficiency ratio below 50%.

總體而言，本季我們實現了穩健的營運槓桿，淨收入成長近 11%，超過了非利息支出不到 6% 的成長。同樣，包括存款成本在內的淨利息收入比上一季增加了 5%，即 2,500 萬美元，導致調整後的成本效率比率低於 50%。

Record pre-provision net revenue of $394 million, grew 19% over the prior quarter. Overall, total provision expense of $80 million, primarily rose from Q2 levels as a result of $30-million reserve and augmented portfolio qualitative overlays to reflect portfolio composition mix change towards C&I and providing greater absorption for tail risks.

扣除撥備前的淨收入達到創紀錄的 3.94 億美元，比上一季成長 19%。總體而言，撥備支出總額為 8000 萬美元，主要較第二季度水準有所上升，原因是計提了 3000 萬美元的準備金，並增加了投資組合定性調整，以反映投資組合構成向工商業方向的變化，並為尾部風險提供更大的吸收。

Turning to our net interest drivers, interest-bearing deposit costs were stable. However, overall liability funding costs comprised 8 basis points from the prior quarter and benefited from lower rates on borrowings and growth in ECR paying DDA accounts.

從淨利息驅動因素來看，計息存款成本維持穩定。然而，整體負債融資成本比上一季下降了 8 個基點，這得益於借款利率的下降和 ECR 支付的 DDA 帳戶的增長。

The health for investment loan yield was relatively stable, ticking up 1 basis point despite the resumption of FOMC rate cuts toward the end of the quarter. The securities yield declined 9 basis points from Q2 to 4.72%. Its average holdings of lower yielding securities increased $2.1 billion quarter over quarter.

儘管聯準會在本季末恢復降息，但投資貸款收益率的健康狀況相對穩定，僅小幅上升了 1 個基點。證券收益率較第二季下降9個基點至4.72%。其低收益證券的平均持有量較上月增加了 21 億美元。

As discussed earlier, net interest income rose $53 million from Q2 to $750 million, driven by healthy loan growth as higher average earning assets increased $4.8 billion. Net interest margin was stable from Q2 at 3.53%, as the impact of a slightly higher loan yield and lower debt costs offset lower securities yields and stable -- net -- not -- interest-bearing deposit costs.

如前所述，淨利息收入較第二季增加 5,300 萬美元至 7.5 億美元，主要得益於貸款的穩健成長，以及平均收益資產增加 48 億美元。淨利差與第二季持平，為 3.53%，貸款收益率略有上升和債務成本下降抵消了證券收益率下降和淨非計息存款成本保持穩定的影響。

Non-interest expenses increased $30 million or 6% quarter over quarter. Deposit cost of $175 million landed squarely in the middle of our Q3 guidance. Excluding deposit costs, however, non-interest expense was only $2 million higher compared to Q2. Our adjusted efficiency ratio of 48% declined 400 basis points from the prior quarter as we continue to achieve positive operating leverage from revenue growth outpacing non-deposit costs, operating expenses.

非利息支出較上季增加 3,000 萬美元，增幅為 6%。1.75億美元的存款成本正好在我們第三季預期範圍的中間位置。但若不計入存款成本，非利息支出僅比第二季高出 200 萬美元。由於營收成長超過非存款成本和營運費用，我們繼續實現積極的營運槓桿，因此我們調整後的成本效率比率為 48%，比上一季下降了 400 個基點。

We remain asset sensitive on a net interest income basis, but essentially interest rate neutral on an earnings at risk basis in a ramp scenario. This offset is supported by a projected ECR-related deposit cost decline and an increase in mortgage banking revenue based upon our rate cut forecasts. Our updated forecast is for two 25-basis-point cuts next week and another one in December.

從淨利息收入的角度來看，我們仍然對資產較為敏感；但在逐步調整的情境下，從風險收益的角度來看，我們基本上對利率保持中立。這一抵消作用得益於預計與 ECR 相關的存款成本下降以及根據我們的降息預測而增加的抵押貸款銀行業務收入。我們最新預測是，下週將兩次降息，每次25個基點，12月還會再降息一次。

The balance sheet increased $4.2 billion from Q2 to $91 billion in total assets, which resulted from sustained, healthy -- for investment loan and deposit growth of $707 million and $6.1 billion, respectively. This strong deposit growth allowed us to reduce borrowings by $2.2 billion.

資產負債表總資產較第二季增加 42 億美元，達到 910 億美元，主要得益於持續健康的投資貸款和存款成長，分別達到 7.07 億美元和 61 億美元。強勁的存款成長使我們能夠減少 22 億美元的借款。

On this slide, we also see the allowance for loan loss growth relative to the increase in loans. Over the past year, the allowance rose from 67 to 78 basis points. This explains how our strong, year-over-year EPS growth of 27% is dwarfed by our industry leading PPNR growth of 38% over the same period. This reflects our robust revenue growth alongside with rising efficiency.

在這張投影片中，我們也可以看到貸款損失準備金相對於貸款成長的情況。過去一年，該項撥備從 67 個基點上升至 78 個基點。這就解釋了為什麼我們強勁的同比每股收益成長 27% 與我們同期領先業界的淨利潤成長率 38% 相比顯得相形見絀。這反映了我們強勁的收入成長以及效率的不斷提高。

Finally, total equity increased to $7.7 billion and tangible book value per share climbed 13% year over year.

最後，總權益增至 77 億美元，每股有形帳面價值年增 13%。

[Hope for] investment loans through $707 million quarterly, so average loan balances were up $1.3 billion from Q2, which supported our strong net interest income growth. Commercial and industrial continues to lead loan growth momentum while construction loans fell $460 million as these loans converted to term financing.

[希望] 投資貸款季度達到 7.07 億美元，因此平均貸款餘額比第二季增加了 13 億美元，這支撐了我們強勁的淨利息收入成長。商業和工業貸款繼續引領貸款成長勢頭，而建築貸款則減少了 4.6 億美元，因為這些貸款轉換為定期融資。

Regional banking produced $150 million of loan growth, leading contributions from in-market commercial banking and home builder finance. National Business lines provided the remainder of the growth with mortgage warehouse and mortgage servicing rights financing being the primary contributors.

區域銀行業務實現了 1.5 億美元的貸款成長，其中市場商業銀行和房屋建築商融資貢獻最大。國家業務線提供了剩餘的成長，其中抵押貸款倉儲和抵押貸款服務權融資是主要貢獻者。

Deposits grew $6.1 billion in Q3, with mortgage warehouse clients only contributing $2.8 billion. Solid growth was achieved in non-interest-bearing and savings and money market products and mitigated the impact of $635 million in designed higher cost CD runoff.

第三季存款增加了 61 億美元，其中抵押貸款倉儲客戶的存款僅貢獻了 28 億美元。無息儲蓄和貨幣市場產品實現了穩健成長，減輕了 6.35 億美元高成本定期存款退出市場的影響。

Deposit growth was well diversified across all areas of the bank. Of note, during the quarter, regional banking deposits [grew] $1.1 billion, with over $600 million in in-market commercial banking and $500 million from innovation banking.

銀行各業務領域的存款成長分佈均衡。值得注意的是，本季區域銀行存款成長了 11 億美元，其中超過 6 億美元來自市場內商業銀行業務，5 億美元來自創新銀行業務。

Specialty escrow deposits grew $1.8 billion in Q3, with contributions of over $750 million from Juris Banking and approximately $400 million each from our corporate trusts and business escrow services businesses. This growth positions us to meet our funding objectives for 2025 while incorporating the normal seasonal mortgage warehouse outflows in Q4.

第三季專業託管存款成長了 18 億美元，其中 Juris Banking 貢獻了超過 7.5 億美元，公司信託和商業託管服務業務各貢獻了約 4 億美元。這一成長使我們能夠實現 2025 年的融資目標，同時將第四季正常的季節性抵押貸款倉庫資金流出納入考量。

As Ken explained, asset quality continues to perform in line with guidance from last quarter. Criticized assets dropped $284 million from $196-million decline in criticized loans and an $88-million reduction in OREO properties. The decline in criticized loans resulted from special mention loans falling $152 million and classified accruing loans decreasing $139 million.

正如肯所解釋的那樣，資產品質繼續按照上季的預期表現。受批評資產減少了 2.84 億美元，其中包括受批評貸款減少了 1.96 億美元，以及已收回房產減少了 8,800 萬美元。受批評貸款的下降是由於特別關注貸款減少了 1.52 億美元，以及分類應計貸款減少了 1.39 億美元。

As for our resolution efforts with other real estate-owned properties, stabilizing leasing and occupancy rates as well as improved net operating income on these properties, reinforce our confidence in the current carrying values.

至於我們對其他房地產資產的解決方案，這些資產的租賃和入住率趨於穩定，淨營業收入也有所提高，這增強了我們對目前帳面價值的信心。

Quarterly net charge-offs were $31 million or 22 basis points of average loans. Provision expense of $80 million was primarily driven by replenishment of charge-offs and the Cantor V reserve. Our allowance for funded loans moved from $46 million higher from the prior quarter to $440 million. The total loan ACL to funded loans ratio rose 7 basis points to [0.85%].

季度淨沖銷額為 3,100 萬美元，相當於平均貸款額的 22 個基點。8000萬美元的撥備支出主要由沖銷款項的補充和Cantor V準備金引起。我們的已發放貸款準備金從上一季的 4,600 萬美元增加到 4.4 億美元。貸款總額與已發放貸款比率上升7個基點[0.85%]。

Relevant to our current discussions with working with Non-Depository Financial Institutions or NDFI clients, it is important to consider that some of the safest asset classes in commercial banking are categorized as NDFI, such as mortgage warehouse and capital call and subscription lines of credit, which have had virtually no losses across the entire industry.

與我們目前與非存款金融機構或 NDFI 客戶合作的討論相關，值得注意的是，商業銀行業一些最安全的資產類別被歸類為 NDFI，例如抵押貸款倉儲和資本召集及認購信貸額度，這些資產在整個行業幾乎沒有損失。

Our overall NDFI loan exposure is disproportionately weighted to mortgage warehouse lines, but we have never experienced a loss. Our NDFI loan exposure excluding mortgage credit intermediaries would represent 8% of loan balances, which is in line with peer averages and below a number of larger banks as seen on slide 24 in the appendix.

我們整體的非金融機構貸款曝險中，抵押貸款倉儲額度佔比過高，但我們從未遭受過損失。不包括抵押貸款信貸中介機構，我們的非存款金融機構貸款敞口將佔貸款餘額的 8%，這與同業平均水平一致，低於附錄第 24 頁中所示的一些大型銀行。

On slide 14, you will see that Western Alliance's concentration and low loss categories skews our ACL lower relative to peers, reflecting the portfolio's lower embedded loss content. The top chart is our updated adjusted total loan ACL [loss], which illustrates how credit enhancements such as credit-linked notes in structurally low risk segments like fund banking, our low LTV, high FICO residential portfolio, and mortgage warehouse elevate our normalized reserve coverage from 85 basis points to 1.4%.

在第 14 張投影片中，您將看到 Western Alliance 的集中度和低損失類別使我們的 ACL 相對於同業較低，這反映了投資組合中較低的內含損失含量。頂部圖表是我們更新後的調整後貸款總 ACL（損失），它說明了信用增級措施（例如在基金銀行等結構性低風險領域發行的信用關聯票據）、我們的低 LTV、高 FICO 住宅投資組合和抵押貸款倉庫，如何將我們的正常化準備金覆蓋率從 85 個基點提高到 1.4%。

The bottom table demonstrates how applying an industry median loan makes to our portfolio, reducing our outside proportion of loans in lower risk categories like mortgage warehouse and residential loans, while also increasing our proportion of loans in higher risk categories like consumer would shift our allowance above 1%.

下表顯示如何將行業中位數貸款應用於我們的投資組合，減少我們在抵押貸款倉儲和房屋貸款等低風險類別中的外部貸款比例，同時增加我們在消費貸款等高風險類別中的貸款比例，這將使我們的撥備超過 1%。

Our CET1 capital ranks around median for the peer group. If you add our less adverse AOCI marks and the loss reserve, our adjusted CET1 ratio capital would be 11.3%. A 30-basis-point quarterly increase reflects organic growth generating higher stated CET1 and supported by improved AOCI marks, and the augmented reserve ranks in line with the median for our asset peer group on a one quarter lag basis. We remain confident in our capacity to absorb any losses in concert with steady loan growth, review the adjusted capital as the total amount available to absorb losses and support balance sheet expansion.

我們的CET1資本在同業群體中處於中等水準。如果加上我們較少的不利 AOCI 標記和損失準備金，我們調整後的 CET1 資本充足率將為 11.3%。季度成長 30 個基點反映了內生成長帶來的更高 CET1 指標，並得到了其他綜合收益 (AOCI) 指標改善的支持，而增加的儲備金按一個季度滯後計算，與同業資產組的中位數一致。我們仍然有信心在貸款穩定成長的同時，吸收任何損失，並將調整後的資本視為可用於吸收損失和支持資產負債表擴張的總金額。

Our CET1 ratio shifted higher to 11.3% from organic earnings accumulation. Our tangible common equity total assets ratio edged down 10 basis points to 7.1%. Our stable capital levels demonstrate our ability to generate sufficient -- capital organically to support balance sheet growth and given stock price volatility, the company is evaluating to issue subordinated debt and using a portion of the proceeds to augment its share repurchase program, which we believe will be accretive to EPS.

由於內生性獲利積累，我們的CET1比率上升至11.3%。我們的有形普通股總資產比率小幅下降 10 個基點至 7.1%。我們穩定的資本水準顯示我們有能力透過自身努力產生足夠的資本來支持資產負債表的成長。鑑於股價波動，公司正在評估發行次級債務，並將部分收益用於擴大其股票回購計劃，我們相信這將增加每股收益。

Tangible book value per share increased $2.69 from June 30 to $58.56 as a function of organic retained earnings. Of note, since initiating our $300-million share buyback programs in September, we completed $25 million in purchases through October 17, consistent with upward growth in tangible book value per share remains a hallmark of Western Alliance that has exceeded peers by 5 times over the past decade. Western Alliance has been a consistent leader in creating shareholder value.

由於有機留存收益，每股有形帳面價值從 6 月 30 日起增加 2.69 美元，達到 58.56 美元。值得注意的是，自 9 月啟動 3 億美元的股票回購計劃以來，截至 10 月 17 日，我們已完成 2500 萬美元的回購，這與每股有形賬面價值的持續增長相一致，而每股有形賬面價值的增長仍然是 Western Alliance 的標誌，在過去十年中，Western Alliance 的指標這一比同比同一個高。西部聯盟一直是創造股東價值的領導者。

On slide 18, we have provided nine metrics we believe are key factors in driving leading financial results, strong profitability, and sustainable franchise value that ultimately compounds tangible book value and produces long-term superior total shareholder returns. For the last 10 years, our TSR, EPS, and tangible book value per share accumulation has ranked in the top quartile relative to peers. Based on business metrics, we are the leader in 10-year loan, deposit, and revenue growth while maintaining top-tier performance for the net interest margin.

在第 18 張投影片中，我們提供了九項指標，我們認為這些指標是推動領先的財務表現、強勁的獲利能力和可持續的特許經營價值的關鍵因素，這些因素最終會增加有形帳面價值，並產生長期優異的股東總回報。過去 10 年，我們的總股東回報率 (TSR)、每股盈餘 (EPS) 和每股有形帳面價值累積均位列同業前四分之一。從業務指標來看，我們在 10 年期貸款、存款和收入成長方面處於領先地位，同時保持淨利差的頂級表現。

Lastly, return on tangible common equity should approach top-quartile performance as we generated higher equity returns this quarter and should continue the upward trends in 2026.

最後，由於本季度我們獲得了更高的股權回報，有形普通股權益回報率應該會接近前四分之一的水平，並且應該會在 2026 年繼續保持上升趨勢。

I'm going to hand the call back to Ken.

我要把電話轉回給肯。

Thanks, Dale.

謝謝你，戴爾。

Our 2025 outlook is as follows. We reiterate our loan growth outlook of $5 billion and raise year-end deposit growth expectations to $8.5 billion. Pipelines remain in good shape, but we remain flexible to changes in the macro environment. Regarding capital, our CET1 is comfortably above 11% and we expect that to hold during the last quarter of the year.

我們對2025年的展望如下。我們重申貸款成長預期為 50 億美元，並將年底存款成長預期上調至 85 億美元。管道系統運作狀況良好，但我們仍將靈活應對宏觀環境的變化。就資本而言，我們的CET1比率遠高於11%，我們預計這一水平將在今年最後一個季度保持下去。

Net interest income remains on track for 8% to 10% growth and should lead to a mid-3.5% net interest margin for the full year, which has been our expectation. Non-interest income was up sharply in Q3 and positioned us to exceed our lofty targets and finished the year up 12% to 16%.

淨利息收入仍有望實現 8% 至 10% 的成長，全年淨利差應在 3.5% 左右，這與我們的預期一致。第三季非利息收入大幅成長，使我們能夠超越遠大目標，最終全年成長 12% 至 16%。

Non-interest expense is expected to be up 2.5% to 4% for the year. ECR-related deposit costs are projected to land between $140 million and $150 million in Q4, which implies slightly above $600 million for the full year.

預計今年非利息支出將成長2.5%至4%。預計第四季與 ECR 相關的存款成本將在 1.4 億美元至 1.5 億美元之間，這意味著全年將略高於 6 億美元。

Operating expenses absent ECR costs now expect to be $1.465 billion to $1.505 billion for the full year. Asset quality should remain -- should continue to perform as expected with full-year net charge-offs in the 20-basis-point area. Finally, our fourth-quarter effective tax rate is forecasted to be about 20%.

不包括 ECR 成本的營運費用預計全年為 14.65 億美元至 15.05 億美元。資產品質應保持穩定－應繼續如預期表現，全年淨沖銷額應在 20 個基點左右。最後，我們預計第四季的實際稅率約為 20%。

At this time, Dale and I and Tim will take your calls.

屆時，戴爾、我和提姆將接聽您的電話。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Janet Lee, TD Cowen.

Janet Lee，TD Cowen。

So it seems like the credit picture that you guys are laying out is that you guys are fairly comfortable with and with the limited loss potential on either first brands, Cantor exposures. As you are assessing your exposure to NDFI, I understand that that is a very broader -- of category, but as you're reassessing your underwriting and your exposure, are you comfortable with your current level of reserves or is there any sort of pressure that you're seeing that there might need to be further increase just based on the current circumstance?

所以看來你們所描繪的信用狀況是你們相當滿意的，並且對第一品牌和 Cantor 風險敞口的潛在損失有限。當您評估對非金融機構的風險敞口時，我理解這是一個非常廣泛的類別，但當您重新評估您的核保和風險敞口時，您對目前的準備金水平感到滿意嗎？或者您是否感受到任何壓力，認為僅根據目前的情況就需要進一步增加準備金？

First, let me say you're right. We feel comfortable with our asset quality. We think it remains stable from here. We mentioned that in the Q2 earnings call that we thought criticized assets had crested and would come down, and in fact, they have.

首先，我想說你是對的。我們對自身的資產品質感到滿意。我們認為價格將從目前水準保持穩定。我們在第二季財報電話會議上提到，我們認為受批評的資產價格已經達到頂峰並會下降，事實上，它們確實已經下降了。

As we look at our facts and circumstances regarding Cantor V and the Point Bonita loan, we do not see any losses in the future. That will of course potentially change if we discover new information regarding the Cantor V discovery that we are in the process of doing in our lawsuit. But at this point we think we have the right amount of collateral to support that loan. We've got high alternate individuals behind that with guarantees and springing guarantees, and I think a new bit of news here for everyone is that we have a $25-million mortgage insurance policy.

從我們審視有關 Cantor V 和 Point Bonita 貸款的事實和情況來看，我們認為未來不會有任何損失。當然，如果我們在訴訟過程中發現有關 Cantor V 案的新信息，情況可能會有所改變。但目前我們認為我們擁有足夠的抵押品來支持這筆貸款。我們有實力雄厚的個人投資者提供支持，包括擔保和觸發式擔保。我認為大家要知道的一個新消息是，我們買了價值 2500 萬美元的房貸保險。

As it relates to the provision or loan loss reserves going forward, we constantly do our CECL review at the end of every quarter and we look at a number of factors, the macroeconomic environment where interest rates are going, portfolio composition, and based upon that as part of our normal process, we determine what our reserves are. So if you're asking, do we see another big, large increase in reserves, no, but that will also be dictated by the factors that I just mentioned.

至於未來的撥備或貸款損失準備金，我們會在每個季度末進行 CECL 審查，我們會考慮許多因素，例如利率走向的宏觀經濟環境、投資組合構成，並在此基礎上，作為我們正常流程的一部分，確定我們的準備金是多少。所以，如果你問的是，我們是否會看到儲備再次大幅成長，答案是否定的，但這也要取決於我剛才提到的那些因素。

That's fair. Thank you.

這很合理。謝謝。

And obviously the PPNR growth was very strong in the quarter. If I look at the guidance update on interest expense, it really looks like it's driven by the higher ECR deposits because of the larger balances on non-interest-bearing deposits that you saw.

顯然，本季每新客戶淨銷售額成長非常強勁。如果我看一下利息支出方面的指導意見更新，看起來確實是由於更高的 ECR 存款所致，因為正如您所看到的，非計息存款的餘額更大。

In terms of the beta expectations for ECR, I assume there's no material change and you should be able to cut deposit beta as previously expected. I think it was around 65% for these types of ECR-related deposits. Am I correct in thinking that? And how are -- what's your view on mortgage revenue? Obviously, that's been a very strong quarter for the third quarter.

就 ECR 的 beta 預期而言，我假設不會有實質變化，你應該能夠像之前預期的那樣降低存款 beta。我認為這類與 ECR 相關的沉積物的比例約為 65%。我的想法對嗎？那麼，您對抵押貸款收入有何看法？顯然，這是第三季非常強勁的一個季度。

Yeah, so I mean, I think you're largely correct and thanks for your observation on this. Yeah, we think the loaded beta is going to be closer to about 70% where the growth has been coming has been in ECR-related -- credit-related deposits that are 100% beta. So they have -- we have -- we start with the funds effective rate and then it's, minus x basis points or plus a few basis points based upon. That and so when we get the action next week, those will drop 100%. Some of the lower price pieces, including for our homeowners association group, those are the ones that are a little slower because they have a lower rate to begin with and so we only get maybe, 40% of that. You win it all together I think we're going to be about 70%.

是的，我的意思是，我認為你的觀點基本上正確，感謝你的觀察。是的，我們認為加載後的 beta 值將接近 70%，而成長主要來自 ECR 相關——即 100% beta 值的信貸相關存款。所以他們——我們——從基金的有效利率開始，然後根據情況減去 x 個基點或加上幾個基點。所以，下週行動開始後，這些數字將會下降 100%。有些價格較低的項目，包括我們業主協會的項目，進展會比較慢，因為它們的初始費率較低，所以我們可能只能拿到其中的 40%。我覺得我們全隊能贏，大概能贏70%。

I'll take the mortgage part of that. We were very pleased with the mortgage-related income which saw a significant rise to $95 million, which is a notable increase of $17 million or 21% from the previous quarter. Really, the key factors contributing to that is the decline in the 30-year mortgage rate, which is being supported by a lower 10-year note rate, which is below 4%. As of this morning, the 30-year fixed rate is 6.15%. What we have seen is when we get into the low 6s%, we really begin to see activity pick up and that's in fact what's happening.

我來承擔抵押貸款的部分。我們對抵押貸款相關收入非常滿意，該收入大幅增長至 9,500 萬美元，比上一季顯著增長了 1,700 萬美元，增幅達 21%。實際上，導致這種情況的關鍵因素是 30 年期抵押貸款利率的下降，而 10 年期票據利率較低（低於 4%）又支撐了這一下降。截至今天早上，30 年期固定利率為 6.15%。我們看到，當利率降至 6% 左右時，交易活動就會開始活躍起來，而這實際上正是目前正在發生的事情。

So, looking ahead for say Q4, we anticipate tailwinds from low rates, which we've experienced in September and seeing here in October. And -- but I want to make sure everyone -- I caution everyone, while there's always a seasonal drop in volumes in Q4, which can range between 6% to 10%, we expect to be on the lower range of that decline, but all things considered, our mortgage revenue should continue to maintain their momentum and absent the low seasonal reduction in Q4, we are becoming optimistic about what 2026 looks like.

因此，展望第四季度，我們預計低利率將帶來利好，我們在 9 月已經體驗到低利率，10 月也看到了這種利好。而且——但我希望確保每個人——我提醒大家，雖然第四季度業務量總會處於季節性下降，降幅可能在 6% 到 10% 之間，但我們預計降幅會處於較低水平，但總的來說，我們的抵押貸款收入應該會繼續保持增長勢頭，而且如果沒有第四季度較低的季節性降幅，我們對 2026 年的前景持樂觀態度。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

克里斯·麥格拉蒂，KBW。

Ken and Dale, the buybacks post quarter end and the comments about being supportive with the capital arbitrage, could you just unpack that a little bit?

Ken 和 Dale，關於季度末的股票回購以及對資本套利的支持性評論，你們能稍微解釋一下嗎？

Sure. So we authorize the $300-million stock buyback. We're not changing that number. We executed $25 million against it in advance of this call, and -- but to perhaps accelerate some of that usage of that $300 million, providing more liquidity at the parent would be helpful and doing a subordinated debt deal at the bank will take our capital ratios and you can see them we're about 14% kind of flat. Our capital is really supported. Our capital growth is really supporting our balance sheet growth, but it would enable us to have a little more latitude with that. As you know though, we also have another goal of 11% CET1. So I can see it come down from where we are at 11.3% to that 11% number near there.

當然。因此，我們批准了3億美元的股票回購計畫。我們不會更改這個數字。在本次電話會議之前，我們已經為此執行了 2500 萬美元的交易，但是——為了加快使用這 3 億美元資金，為母公司提供更多流動性將有所幫助，在銀行進行次級債務交易將提高我們的資本比率，你可以看到我們的資本比率大約在 14% 左右，基本持平。我們的資金得到了很好的支持。我們的資本成長確實支撐了資產負債表的成長，但如果我們能在這方面有更大的彈性就更好了。如您所知，我們還有一個目標是達到 11% 的 CET1。所以我認為它會從目前的 11.3% 下降到接近 11% 的水平。

Yeah, Chris, I had just a few other points there.

是的，克里斯，我還有幾點要補充。

So for the quarter, we purchased 301,000 shares at $83.08. Notably 128,000 of those shares were acquired at $77.83. And what that should tell you before the announcement of first brands and the Cantor. We were feeling very confident to be buying this stock back in the mid-to-high $80s, and we even got more confidence to buy it back when the stock dropped. And so the rest is what Dale said, which is we'll put out a subordinated deal sometime in the future and we'll look to continue to support the stock, which is what we said when we announced the authorization. If there was a disruption in the stock, we'd be (technical difficulty) to support it.

因此，本季我們以每股 83.08 美元的價格購入了 301,000 股。值得注意的是，其中 128,000 股是以每股 77.83 美元的價格購買的。在宣布首批品牌和 Cantor 之前，這應該可以說明一些問題。我們當時非常有信心在股價 80 多美元的時候買入這支股票，而當股價下跌時，我們更有信心再次買入。剩下的部分正如戴爾所說，我們將在未來某個時候推出次級交易，並將繼續支持股票，這與我們宣布授權時所說的一樣。如果股票出現波動，我們將（技術困難）提供支援。

Okay, so you chip away the [300] sooner versus you're not raising the 300. Got it.

好的，所以你得盡快把[300]減掉，而不是不增加這300。知道了。

And then a follow-up just on the guidance, we have one quarter left, but the ranges are fairly wide. Could you just speak to biases within the range for the various items? Would you steer us in any direction for NII fees, expenses? Thanks.

然後，關於業績指引，我們還有一個季度的時間，但指引範圍相當廣泛。您能否談談各個專案範圍內存在的偏差？您能否就NII費用和支出給我們一些建議？謝謝。

Well, I mean, maybe ignored a couple of things. I mean, so coming out of the second quarter performance, there were some discussions about our kind of our fee income levels, and we had a stronger in the other category of non-interest income you can see it was up significantly. I think that's at least going to continue into the fourth quarter. We're in the process now of distributing one of the largest class action settlements of all time and that will come in through.

嗯，我的意思是，可能忽略了一些事情。我的意思是，在第二季業績公佈後，我們對手續費收入水平進行了一些討論，而我們在其他非利息收入類別中表現更強勁，你可以看到它大幅增長。我認為這種情況至少會持續到第四季。我們正在發放有史以來金額最大的集體訴訟和解金之一，款項將陸續到帳。

On the expense side, based upon kind of where we're headed, we believe that there are incentive accruals we may need to be bolstered in the fourth quarter to get to where we think -- where we're going to be on a relative to our bonus targets which are outlined in the proxy earlier this year. So that'll be a factor there.

在支出方面，根據我們目前的發展方向，我們認為可能需要在第四季度增加激勵性支出，以達到我們所認為的——相對於我們今年早些時候在委託書中概述的獎金目標而言——的水平。所以這會是一個影響因素。

On the insurance piece, you can see that we had a significant decrease in FDIC costs. We've been talking about how we're going to continue to roll back, what we've done in terms of network deposits like IntraFi. We've also been scaling back brokered. This is largely the fruits of that, but we also had a benefit in the third quarter from a rebate from prior overpaid insurance costs a little bit. That said, I think the fourth quarter, we're going to burn -- we're going to earn through that ad back that we had or the benefit we had and I think insurance costs are going to be fairly stable.

從保險方面來看，我們 FDIC 費用大幅下降。我們一直在討論我們將如何繼續回滾，以及我們在網路存款方面（例如 IntraFi）所做的工作。我們也一直在縮減經紀業務。這主要是那項工作的成果，但我們在第三季也從之前多付的保險費用中獲得了一些退款。也就是說，我認為第四季度，我們將透過廣告收入或我們獲得的收益來彌補損失，而且我認為保險成本將相當穩定。

Yeah, I want to take a step back here. Based on consensus estimates that you guys all produce, we're going to grow earnings somewhere between 17% and 19% for 2025. I just want to make sure people remember as we entered this year, the earnings trajectory had a very steep back end curve, and we're on track to achieving that curve. So it's also noteworthy that I think there are very few banks at or above our size growing EPS at this pace.

是的，我想退後一步。根據大家給出的共識預測，我們2025年的獲利成長率將在17%到19%之間。我只是想提醒大家，今年年初時，我們的獲利軌跡呈現出非常陡峭的後半段曲線，而我們正朝著實現這一目標穩步前進。因此，值得注意的是，我認為在我們規模或更大的銀行中，很少有銀行能夠以這樣的速度實現每股盈餘成長。

Andrew Terrell, Stephens.

安德魯·特雷爾，史蒂芬斯。

I had a question just around the seasonal kind of deposit flows. I appreciate the $8.5 billion-plus of deposits growth guidance for the year. Can you just talk about expectations of the seasonal component in the fourth quarter, how much that takes out of specifically the ECR balances, and then just the strange you're seeing in other verticals that would I'm assume offset some of that.

我有一個關於季節性沉積物流動的問題。我讚賞全年存款成長超過 85 億美元的預期。您能否談談您對第四季度季節性因素的預期，以及這會對 ECR 餘額造成多大的影響，還有您在其他垂直領域看到的奇怪現象，這些現像我想應該會抵消一部分影響。

Yeah, I mean, really, the ECR pick up, that we saw or the half of the deposits that we gained in the third quarter was really related to the mortgage cycle we've talked about this, and those payments are going to be made sometime around the end of November or December, and so that's what's really going to come off. So it ramped up and then it comes down, but it's here for most of the quarter in terms of an average balance basis, which of course is how we compute earnings credit rates and then, kind of more stabilized after that going into 2026.

是的，我的意思是，實際上，我們看到的 ECR 回升，或者說我們在第三季度獲得的存款的一半，實際上與我們一直在討論的抵押貸款週期有關，這些款項將在 11 月底或 12 月初支付，所以這才是真正會減少的。所以它先是上升，然後下降，但就平均餘額而言，它在本季度的大部分時間裡都保持在這個水平，當然，這也是我們計算收益信用率的方式，然後，在進入 2026 年之後，情況會更加穩定。

Got it. And if I could ask on the mortgage banking piece.

知道了。我可以問一下關於抵押貸款銀行業務方面的問題嗎？

Yeah, I know fourth quarter of last year benefited pretty heavily from, I think, some direct securities and loan sales directly to banks. I know that's something you guys invested in. Did you guys experience any of that in the third quarter of this year that led to some of the margin increase and is that something we should expect to again in the fourth quarter of this year?

是的，我知道去年第四季受益匪淺，我認為主要得益於一些直接向銀行出售的證券和貸款。我知道這是你們投資的項目。你們今年第三季是否也遇到了類似的情況，導致利潤率有所提高？我們是否可以預期今年第四季也會出現這種情況？

So for the third quarter there was less volatility, so ball did not take a bite out of the revenue growth that we are showing here for the quarter. That's number 1. Number 2, we did take a position that rates were going to come down and we held on to a lot of our securities, bonds, if you will, and did not sell them until later in the quarter and we caught the rise up in price on that and that helped us a little bit.

因此，第三季的波動性較小，所以球類運動並沒有影響我們在此展示的該季度營收成長。這是第一點。第二，我們當時確實認為利率會下降，所以我們持有大量的證券（或者說債券），直到本季度後期才出售，我們抓住了價格上漲的機會，這對我們有所幫助。

I am not -- we are not modeling that in our Q4 expectations again and as I said, I just think Q4 mortgage revenues come down a little bit from Q3 just because of the seasonal nature and also November and February are the two worst mortgage months of the year and starting around Thanksgiving through the end of the year, activity begins to slow somewhat.

我沒有——我們沒有在第四季度預期中再次對此進行建模，正如我所說，我認為第四季度抵押貸款收入會比第三季度略有下降，這只是因為季節性因素，而且11月和2月是一年中抵押貸款業務最差的兩個月，從感恩節前後到年底，業務活動會開始有所放緩。

Yeah, we had some dispositions as we generally do on mortgage servicing rights, but it wasn't for any type of a gain here.

是的，我們像往常一樣對抵押貸款服務權進行了一些處置，但這並非為了從中獲利。

Jared Shaw, Barclays.

Jared Shaw，巴克萊銀行。

Thanks for the color on credit. I guess looking at more broadly the trends in classified loans, what was driving that reduction? Was that credits leaving the bank or was that improving underlying fundamentals and or was any of that from Cantor and first brands potentially moving out of classified and into non-performing?

謝謝你提供的彩色顏料。我想，從更廣泛的角度來看，不良貸款的趨勢是什麼導致了這種下降？那是信貸資金流出銀行，還是基本面改善，又或者，Cantor 和 First Brands 的某些資產有可能從分類資產轉為不良資產？

No, so there's a lot of stuff there. So let me kind of break down.

不，那裡有很多東西。讓我來詳細解釋一下。

Our OREO decreased $88 million. That is one property that was sold at a marginal profit to what we brought it in at and another property that was transitioned out of OREO. So that's the $88 million.

我們的奧利奧銷售額減少了 8800 萬美元。其中一處房產的售價僅比我們當初的進價略高，而另一處房產則從已收回的資產中轉移出來。所以，這就是8800萬美元。

Special mention declined because several credits got resolved with borrowers putting up incremental margin to make us comfortable and then we were able to elevate the quality of that loan or the rating of that loan. And same thing I would say in terms of accruing substandard loans, where we just got -- we just resolved a few credits and those got upgraded in terms of its rating.

之所以沒有特別提及，是因為幾筆貸款問題得到了解決，借款人增加了保證金，讓我們放心，然後我們能夠提高該貸款的品質或評級。對於累積的不良貸款，我也想說同樣的話，我們剛剛解決了一些信貸問題，這些信貸的評級也得到了提升。

In terms of non-accrual substandard, the Cantor loan is in that category, okay? So that's the one that went up, right? So special mention went down by [152, accruing substandard loans fell by 138]. OREO decreased by $88 million, and the increase in non-accrual loans was $95 million which is all that was for the Cantor Group V. Had that not happened, we would have been flat there. So hopefully that unpacks it a little bit for you.

就非應計次次級貸款而言，坎托貸款就屬於這一類，懂嗎？所以，是那個升起來的，對吧？因此，特別提及[152，應計不良貸款減少了 138]。 OREO 減少了 8800 萬美元，非應計貸款增加了 9500 萬美元，這就是 Cantor Group V 的全部情況。如果不是那樣，我們早就被夷為平地了。希望這能幫您稍微理解一下。

Yeah, that's great. Thank you.

是的，那太好了。謝謝。

And then I guess this is a follow-up, Dale you mentioned growth in corporate trust deposits. How -- is that market share gain? I mean, what's going on there? Should we expect to see sort of continued momentum and growth on corporate trust?

然後我想這是一個後續問題，戴爾，你提到了企業信託存款的成長。這算哪門子市佔率成長？我的意思是，那裡到底發生了什麼事？我們是否應該預期企業信託基金將持續維持成長動能？

Yeah, it is market share gain. I mean, I'm really proud of kind of how we've executed in this category. We started 2.5 years ago, really, and really with the focus we have on CLOs to start, we're now going to be expanding into municipal, but we have become the seventh largest CLO trust depository in the world in just 2 years. And so I think we're going to be continuing to move up that those ranks in that group.

是的，這是市場佔有率的成長。我的意思是，我真的為我們在這一類別中的表現感到自豪。我們實際上是在兩年半前起步的，最初專注於 CLO，現在我們將擴展到市政債券領域，但在短短兩年內，我們已經成為全球第七大 CLO 信託託管機構。所以我認為我們將繼續在這個群體中提升排名。

I can't say it's going to be exactly what's going to do for the fourth quarter, because some of these are -- these are $50-million deals, let's say, and there's some. They said some of them are refinanced and things like this and so they get they get taken out. But we have strong expectations for how this is going to go in 2026.

我不能說第四季會是什麼情況，因為其中一些是——比如說，5000萬美元的交易，而且還有一些。他們說其中一些貸款進行了再融資等等，所以它們就被套牢了。但我們對 2026 年的發展抱有很高的期望。

Yeah, I'll add one other thing too here, which we've got a very powerful [one-two] punch here, which is our corporate finance where some of the private credit lending is done, works alongside of corporate trust when we go in and see clients. And so we get the corporate trust business as well as a credit mandate, and those two things work really well. And what we are seeing, and this is really -- we're very excited about this on the corporate trust side, is once we get in there, our service level is so superior to some of the larger banks which have not invested in this area that we get repeat business and there are repeat businesses coming at a fairly nice pace, so we have great expectations for next year and the deposit growth from corporate trusts.

是的，我還要補充一點，我們這裡有一個非常強大的組合拳，那就是我們的企業融資（其中一些私人信貸貸款就是在這裡進行的）與我們拜訪客戶時的企業信託業務相結合。因此，我們獲得了企業信託業務和信貸授權，這兩項業務都運作得非常好。我們看到的情況是，尤其是在企業信託方面，我們對此感到非常興奮。一旦我們進入這個領域，我們的服務水平就遠勝於一些尚未投資該領域的大型銀行，因此我們能夠獲得回頭客，而且回頭客的增長速度相當不錯，所以我們對明年以及企業信託的存款增長抱有很高的期望。

Timothy Coffey, Janney.

蒂莫西·科菲，詹尼。

Looking at the loan-to-deposit ratio that's clearly come down the past couple of years, is that at a level now that you think is the right size for it? I've got kind of the mid-to-low 70% range.

從過去幾年貸款存款比率明顯下降的情況來看，您認為目前的水平是否合適？我的分數大概在70%中低。

So, actually, we think it's a little too low, right? And we'd like to see that be higher and so we're working on that. So we have plenty of liquidity to put to work and what we're looking for are good, safe, sound loans that we can do very thoughtful credit underwriting on. And if we find those loans, then we have the liquidity in front of us. Right now that Liquidity is probably not making any money, not losing any money for us, maybe on the margin, maybe it makes a couple of bps, but we like to put it to good use and so we can see strong activity, which we're seeing decent activity in our markets, we'll put that liquidity to work.

所以，實際上，我們認為這個數字有點太低了，對吧？我們希望這個數字能更高，所以我們正在為此努力。因此，我們擁有充足的流動資金可以投入使用，我們正在尋找優質、安全、穩健的貸款，以便我們能夠進行非常周全的信貸承銷。如果我們能找到這些貸款，那麼我們就有了流動資金。目前，這筆流動性可能既沒有為我們帶來任何收益，也沒有造成任何損失，也許只能勉強盈利幾個基點，但我們喜歡好好利用它，這樣才能看到強勁的交易活動（目前我們的市場交易活動相當不錯），我們會充分利用這筆流動性。

Another question was on the OREO that you're operating and collecting rental income on right now. How should you be thinking about that line item going forward? Is that kind of a recurring revenue line item for right now?

另一個問題是關於您目前正在營運並收取租金收入的OREO房產。接下來您應該如何看待這個專案？這算是目前的一項經常性收入項目嗎？

Yeah, so it has two places. It has a place in other revenue where that's where we get the revenue, the collection of the rents, and then it has an operating expense which is in the other expense category. The net of those two are just marginally profitable, maybe $1 million to $2 million over the year. And so we took in these properties because we thought we could execute faster upon leasing up these buildings than the sponsors were, and the sponsors were happy to give it to us and we were able to -- we think, we believe we were able to maintain the value of those properties and actually improve them over time. So our goal is as we are able to increase the occupancy of these buildings and then sell them, those -- the revenues from that will be adjusted accordingly. But right now, the net benefit to the PPNR is really marginal at $1 million to $2 million for the year.

是的，所以它有兩個地方。它在其他收入中佔有一席之地，因為我們從那裡獲得收入，即收取租金；此外，它還有一項營運支出，該支出屬於其他支出類別。這兩個項目加起來利潤微薄，一年可能也就100萬到200萬美元。因此，我們接手了這些房產，因為我們認為我們出租這些建築物的速度比發起人更快，而發起人也樂意把房產交給我們，我們能夠——我們認為，我們相信我們能夠保持這些房產的價值，並且隨著時間的推移，實際上還能改善它們。因此，我們的目標是，隨著這些建築物入住率的提高，我們將出售這些建築物，並相應地調整由此產生的收入。但就目前而言，PPNR 的淨收益非常有限，一年下來只有 100 萬到 200 萬美元。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

I just wanted to follow-up, Ken, so I think credit's obviously a huge overhang on the stock and I heard your comments around asset quality but just speak to us in terms of one, I think within the NDFI the business services piece. On a macro level, like, have you seen, and this is not just for Western Alliance, but have you seen underwriting standards we can where we should be expecting more issues coming out of this area and banks being exposed to non-bank financials around this one -- just your comfort level in this space given you're still quite active would be helpful.

Ken，我只是想跟進一下，我認為信貸顯然是該股的一大不利因素，我也聽到了你關於資產質量的評論，但請你談談其中一個方面，我認為是NDFI中的商業服務部分。從宏觀層面來看，例如，您是否注意到，這不僅僅是針對西方聯盟，而是針對承保標準，我們是否可以預見到該領域會出現更多問題，以及銀行是否會因此而面臨非銀行金融機構的風險——鑑於您仍然非常活躍，您在這個領域的舒適度將很有幫助。

And then beyond this as we think about asset quality, we had some commercial real estate issues you handled last quarter. Now this, as you look forward, I think just your level of comfort when we talk about things have tested, are they getting better versus risk of like one-offs popping up.

此外，當我們考慮資產品質時，上個季度我們遇到了一些商業房地產問題，而您已經處理了這些問題。現在，展望未來，我認為，當我們談論已經過考驗的事情時，你的舒適程度，以及這些事情是否在好轉，還是存在一次性事件的風險。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, you came in a little choppy and so if I miss something in terms of one of your questions, just do a follow-up or if Dale heard it clearer than I did, and he'll jump in there.

好的，你剛才說話有點斷斷續續的，所以如果我漏聽了你的某個問題，請你再補充一下；或者如果戴爾比我聽得更清楚，他會補充的。

Right now, I think the overall backdrop to the economy is pretty good. You've got GDP growing at 3.8% to 3.9%. You got the 10-year rate coming down to under 4%. Employment for as much as people are talking about and nervous about it, are still in a rather low 4% area. You have greater investments being made into the country from foreign countries, so that should help continue with economic growth. And you've got a pro-business President. So that's the backdrop to a lot of things that we're seeing.

我認為目前整體經濟狀況相當不錯。你們的GDP成長率為3.8%至3.9%。10 年期利率已降至 4% 以下。儘管人們對就業問題議論紛紛，也為此感到焦慮不安，但就業率仍維持在相當低的 4% 水準。外國對我國的投資不斷增加，這應該有助於經濟持續成長。而且你們還有一位親商的總統。這就是我們所看到的許多現象的背景。

As it relates to us and some of your question was I think how do we feel about the non-depository financial institution loans? Let me say that a good chunk of those are all mortgage related and MSR related, and as Dale said in some of his prepared comments, we've never -- the industry has not experienced any losses. And for those people that aren't really knowledgeable, what happens on these mortgage warehouse lines, the average loan that we put on there stays for 16 to 18 days and it rolls off very, very quickly.

至於這與我們本身以及你們提出的一些問題有關，我想問的是，我們對非存款金融機構貸款有何看法？我想說，其中很大一部分都與抵押貸款和抵押貸款服務權 (MSR) 有關，正如戴爾在他事先準備好的一些發言中所說，我們——這個行業從未經歷過任何損失。對於那些不太了解的人來說，這些抵押貸款倉儲貸款的運作方式是，我們放在那裡的貸款平均會停留 16 到 18 天，然後很快就會到期。

And so these are government generally qualified loans. These are government loans, government-backed credits, they're very high FICO scores. We like these credits, meaning the specialized mortgage credits to the warehouse lending. They're very strong and so are the MSR credits that we have on our books, and we have not seen any weakness in that at all, okay.

因此，這些都是政府普遍認可的貸款。這些都是政府貸款，政府擔保信貸，信用評分非常高。我們喜歡這些信貸，指的是專門用於倉儲貸款的抵押貸款信貸。它們非常強勁，我們帳上的 MSR 信用額度也非常強勁，我們完全沒有發現任何弱點，好嗎？

As it relates to the other part of our non-depository financial institutions, which has gotten some exposure through the Point Bonita controversy, that was disclosed about two weeks ago. We like private credit and I think for us, it's important that people understand why we like private credit and how it works here in the bank.

至於我們非存款金融機構的另一部分，由於兩週前披露的 Point Bonita 爭議而受到關注。我們喜歡私人信貸，我認為對我們來說，讓人們了解我們為什麼喜歡私人信貸以及私人信貸在我們銀行是如何運作的，這一點很重要。

First, we lend to lenders. Just remember that. We're lending to people that are lending to private equity. Our interests are automatically aligned and anytime we recommend the covenant, that means it's good for us, it's got to be good for the private equity credit lender and so we're very much aligned.

首先，我們向貸款機構提供貸款。記住這一點。我們向那些向私募股權公司放款的人提供貸款。我們的利益自然而然地是一致的，任何時候我們推薦這項契約，都意味著它對我們有利，對私募股權信貸機構也一定有利，所以我們的利益高度一致。

Number 2, we are working only with the brand name private credit funds. And we went back and looked at what their average loss rates were, only 25 basis points. All right. Now, we still underwrite the losses in the funds because that's the right thing to do. Okay but our attachment point, which is defined as where we first take a loss, is that 35%. So the fund has to lose 35% before we take $1 of loss, right? Contrast that to the 25 basis points that their average loss rates are from these private credit shops. All right. Most of our structures are rated either AA or AAA, right? And that's what gets a lower risk weighting on these structures.

第二，我們只與知名品牌的私人信貸基金合作。我們回過頭來看，他們的平均損失率只有 25 個基點。好的。現在，我們仍然承擔基金的損失，因為這是我們應該做的。好的，但是我們的停損點，也就是我們第一次遭受損失的點，是 35%。所以，基金必須虧損 35% 我們才會承擔 1 美元的損失，對嗎？相較之下，這些私人信貸機構的平均損失率僅為 25 個基點。好的。我們的大多數建築都達到了AA級或AAA級，對嗎？因此，這些結構中風險權重較低的部分就屬於這種情況。

Now, on top of that, we have an active portfolio management process that connects with an active portfolio management process at the private equity or private credit shops. And lastly, we have the ability, we've got kick out eligibility rights on these credits as well, right? And as we said, we don't think there's a loss here with the Point Bonita credit, it's paying as we expected, and it's unfortunate that our name got put out there. We didn't put it out there, but it's unfortunate that it did.

現在，除此之外，我們還有一個積極的投資組合管理流程，該流程與私募股權或私募信貸機構的積極投資組合管理流程相銜接。最後，我們有能力，我們也有權利取消這些信貸的資格，對吧？正如我們所說，我們認為 Point Bonita 信用額度並沒有造成損失，它按預期支付了款項，很不幸地我們的名字被洩露了。我們沒有公開這件事，但很遺憾它還是被公開了。

We never -- we were not worried because of the diversity of retailers and their investment grade and the fact that we have a loan-to-value relationship of 20% there when we have $890 million of credit accounts receivable backing up our loan amount, which as I said, is over 4 times. So unless I missed anything, Dale that I'm missing you anything. Okay, Dale said I got it. Hopefully, I got it.

我們從未——我們並不擔心，因為零售商的多樣性以及他們的投資級別，而且我們在那裡的貸款價值比為 20%，同時我們還有 8.9 億美元的應收帳款作為貸款金額的擔保，正如我所說，這超過了 4 倍。所以，除非我漏掉了什麼，戴爾，我沒漏掉什麼吧。好的，戴爾說我明白了。希望我明白了。

Got it. Alright, so that is a full response.

知道了。好了，這就是完整的答案。

On the buybacks I think Dale, you mentioned you're at 11.3% versus the 11% that you're targeting. Is there an implication there given where the stock is right now that you could accelerate some of the buybacks where the first 30 basis points of CET1 you could do in short order if the stock remains where it is today.

關於股票回購，戴爾，你提到你目前的回購率是 11.3%，而你的目標比例是 11%。鑑於該股票目前的狀況，這是否意味著您可以加快一些回購步伐，例如，如果該股票保持目前的水平，您可以很快完成前 30 個基點的 CET1 回購？

I think that's a safe inference Ebrahim. I mean, we haven't done our debt deal yet, but yeah, do I think we're going to come down from 11.3% closer to our target, yes.

我認為這是一個合理的推斷，易卜拉欣。我的意思是，我們還沒有達成債務協議，但是，是的，我認為我們會從 11.3% 降到更接近我們的目標水平嗎？是的。

Casey Haire, Autonomous.

凱西·海爾，自主。

Ken, great answer, long answer on the NDFI, but I do have a follow-up.

Ken，你的回答很棒，關於NDFI的回答也很詳細，但我還有一個後續問題。

Specifically on the collateral and how it's validated. I mean, it sounds like you scrubbed the note finance book of the big ticket items there, which is $2 billion, but that leaves about $11 billion of NDFI exposure. It just seems like it's as long as you're not afraid to go to jail, it seems easy to double-fledge collateral. So what are you doing to validate your collateral and safeguard against future frauds?

具體來說，是關於抵押品以及如何驗證抵押品的問題。我的意思是，聽起來你們已經從票據融資帳簿中剔除了大額項目，金額高達 20 億美元，但這還留下了約 110 億美元的非存款金融機構風險敞口。只要你不怕坐牢，似乎很容易就能進行雙重抵押。那麼，你們採取了哪些措施來驗證抵押品並防範未來的詐欺行為？

Well, as Ken indicated in his remarks, we are confirming through direct sources with the title [insurances] or with the title itself, that our lien has been placed in the first position and then we periodically check those to make sure that nothing happened that pushed us down a second. I mean, the issue we had with the Cantor deal is we were supposed to be in first position and in some cases, we see that we are now in second.

正如肯在他的演講中指出的那樣，我們正在透過產權保險公司或產權本身的直接管道確認，我們的留置權已被置於第一順位，然後我們會定期檢查這些留置權，以確保沒有發生任何將我們降到第二順位的事情。我的意思是，我們與坎托爾的交易問題在於，我們原本應該處於第一的位置，但在某些情況下，我們看到我們現在處於第二的位置。

And but the reason why we say that we're okay with collateral is because if I net out the first in front of us relative to the as is appraisals that we have that we're getting updated, we still have enough money to cover the entire amount of this loan of $98 million which excludes the [springing] guarantees from two individuals that are ultra-high net worth as well as the insurance policy that we have to for fraud losses ourselves for '25.

但我們之所以說我們對抵押品沒問題，是因為如果我把擺在我們面前的第一筆款項與我們正在更新的現狀評估值進行淨額計算，我們仍然有足夠的資金來支付這筆 9800 萬美元貸款的全部金額，這還不包括兩位超高淨值人士提供的擔保，以及我們自己為 2025 年的欺詐損失購買的保險單。

And Casey, I want to just correct you. I think I heard a number that are note finance portfolio is only $2 billion.

凱西，我只想糾正你。我好像聽過一個數字，說票據融資組合只有20億美元。

Right, no (multiple speakers) that, but I'm talking about the remaining NDFI exposure of $11 billion.

沒錯，（多位發言者）不是那個，但我說的是剩餘的 110 億美元 NDFI 風險敞口。

Well, the rest of the NDFI exposure is, I mean, the overwhelming preponderance is really these basically lines for residential mortgage and those loans are only -- they only last two weeks, maybe 17 days. So the loan is cable funded to close a house or do a refi to put the money in, we hold it and then it's pushed off to a GSE two weeks later. So those clear out all the time.

至於 NDFI 的其他風險敞口，我的意思是，絕大部分實際上都是房屋抵押貸款，而這些貸款只有——它們只有兩週，也許 17 天。所以這筆貸款是透過電匯融資來購買房屋或進行再融資，把錢投入其中，我們持有這筆貸款，然後兩週後將其轉交給政府支持企業 (GSE)。所以這些東西一直在被清理掉。

Gotcha. Okay. All right, just switching to the guide on loans and deposits, and it sounds like loan growth is going to have to have a pretty strong quarter. You guys are certainly capable of that, but it's been some time that you've put up a $2-billion quarter so just some color on the pipelines.

明白了。好的。好的，接下來我們來看貸款和存款方面的指南，看來貸款成長需要一個非常強勁的季度才能實現。你們當然有能力做到這一點，但你們已經很久沒有實現 20 億美元的季度業績了，所以需要一些關於管道建設的資訊。

And then on the deposit side of things, I think you guys had said that you are pricing it differently so that mortgage runoff would be less than the [$1.7 billion] that you experienced last year, but the guide implies about $3 billion of runoff. So just looking for some clarification there.

至於存款方面，我想你們之前說過，你們的定價方式不同，所以抵押貸款的償還額會低於去年的 17 億美元，但指導方針暗示償還額約為 30 億美元。所以，我只是想弄清楚一些事情。

I'll split it up. I'll take the loans. I'll let Dale take deposits.

我會把它分成幾份。我願意接受貸款。我會讓戴爾負責收取訂金。

So we grew $700 million this quarter. That was a little below what our internal projections were. We had two maybe three loans that were pushed out for closing from the end of the Q3 and they're coming into Q4. So that's what gives us sort of the confidence that we'll have a much better Q4 than we did Q3.

所以本季我們成長了7億美元。這比我們內部的預期略低一些。我們有兩三筆貸款從第三季末推遲到第四季才完成交割。所以，正是這一點讓我們有信心，第四季的業績會比第三季好得多。

Yeah, if you go to the deposit guide, like you mentioned that your analysis is correct, Casey. So what's transpired is, gosh, we had this kind of a rocket third quarter in terms of deposit growth. My instinctive reaction is, does that give us pricing leverage, whereby we can maybe put something down and still have a strong performance. So I think in some respects, our guide anticipates that maybe the runoff would be a little bit higher if we did that, but I hope we'd be able to save on pricing in that scenario.

是的，如果你去查看存款指南，就像你提到的那樣，你的分析是正確的，凱西。所以，結果是，哇，第三季存款成長出現了火箭般的成長。我的本能反應是，這是否給了我們定價優勢，使我們能夠降低價格並仍然保持強勁的業績。所以我覺得在某些方面，我們的嚮導預計，如果我們這樣做，徑流量可能會稍微高一些，但我希望在這種情況下我們能夠節省價格。

I would say that there is one other caveat though. So if the AmeriHome operation and mortgage banking generally picks up, what goes into those deposits is normally it's just your principal and interest. You make a payment for x thousand dollars. We're going to go in there and we're going to see those funds, we're going to have them for three weeks and then we're going to remit them to a GSE typically.

不過，我還要補充一點。因此，如果 AmeriHome 的營運和抵押貸款業務總體上有所好轉，那麼這些存款通常就只有本金和利息。你付了 x 千美元。我們將進入那裡，查看這些資金，我們將持有這些資金三週，然後通常會將它們匯給政府支持企業 (GSE)。

But, if somebody does a purchase, then maybe it's $500,000 that goes in there. And so those deposits could rise if we get into more of a purchase and/or refi business kind of moving in as rates continue to decline.

但是，如果有人進行購買，那麼可能就會有 50 萬美元投入其中。因此，隨著利率持續下降，如果我們更多地參與購房和/或再融資業務，這些存款可能會增加。

Matthew Clark, Piper Sandler.

馬修·克拉克，派珀·桑德勒。

Just on that lawsuit in the Juris Banking division, just quantify the settlement or that you anticipate to realize here in the fourth quarter.

僅就 Juris Banking 部門的那起訴訟而言，請量化一下您預計在第四季度實現的和解金額。

Yeah, so the lawsuit was a -- it was, I guess it was Facebook, Cambridge Analytica deal, you probably heard about it. It has more plaintiffs or more participants in the class than anything ever in the over $10 million and that process is taking place now and so and -- and if we're the distributor of that, it's going to take a few months to do it, but we get fees associated with distributing $15 million payments and going through the process of verification the individual are they certified for the class things like this?

是的，所以那場訴訟——我猜是Facebook和劍橋分析公司之間的糾紛，你可能聽過。它的原告或集體訴訟參與者人數比以往任何案件都多，賠償金額超過 1000 萬美元，而且這個過程現在正在進行中——如果我們是這筆賠償金的分配者，這需要幾個月的時間，但我們會收到與分配 1500 萬美元賠償金相關的費用，以及驗證個人是否符合集體訴訟資格等流程的費用。

Got it.

知道了。

And then I don't think I saw it on the slide deck, but if you had the spot rate on deposits at the end of September and the beta we should assume as we go through a rate cutting cycle here potentially.

然後，我似乎沒在投影片上看到，但如果你有 9 月底的存款即期利率和我們應該假設的 beta 值，因為我們可能會經歷一個降息週期。

Yeah, so the ending rate was [317] for interest-bearing deposits, the beta that we've got -- we're a little bit faster on the ECR, so it's going to be a little slower than that in terms of what we're doing, but, as you see on the net interest income guide in total, we're showing that we're slightly asset sensitive, maybe a little bit of compression as rates come down. But we more than make up for that with what we save on ECR costs and what we save in additional income from the AmeriHome operation.

是的，所以計息存款的期末利率是[317]，我們得到的貝塔係數——我們對預期利率規則的反應速度稍快一些，所以就我們目前採取的措施而言，速度會比預期利率稍慢一些，但是，正如你在淨利息收入指引中看到的那樣，我們表明我們對資產略微敏感，隨著利率下降，可能會出現一些壓縮。但我們透過節省 ECR 成本和 AmeriHome 營運帶來的額外收入，完全彌補了這一點。

Ben Gerlinger, Citi.

本‧格林格，花旗銀行。

I know we talked through OREO a little bit, with respect to the properties of the office properties last quarter, it seems like you've already sold one and you're leasing up others. I know, Ken, that you acknowledge that like fees and rent rolls going to -- in that fee income and then expenses are basically de minimis to one another towards your net impact -- the income statement, but as you roll those out, it seems like on occupancy levels you probably acknowledge some gains over the next 12 months. I was just kind of curious at any timeline you might project on getting rid of the other 4 that you still have on the OREO.

我知道我們上個季度稍微討論了一下OREO的辦公物業，看起來你們已經賣掉了一套，並且正在出租其他的。我知道，肯，你也承認，像費用和租金收入這樣的項目——在費用收入和支出方面，它們對你的淨影響基本上微不足道——在損益表中，但隨著你逐步推出這些項目，入住率似乎在未來 12 個月內可能會有所增長。我只是有點好奇，你預計什麼時候能擺脫 OREO 上剩下的 4 個問題。

Yeah, I really don't have a timeline for you. We'd like to get them off our balance sheet as quickly as possible. The best way to do that is to lease these properties up. We see good leasing activity on the properties as Dale said in his prepared remarks.

是的，我真的無法給你一個時間表。我們希望盡快將它們從資產負債表中剔除。最好的方法就是把這些房產租出去。正如戴爾在事先準備好的發言稿中所說，我們看到這些物業的租賃活動十分活躍。

In addition, we're getting some tailwind with interest rate cuts coming, which should really improve cap rates. So the best I can say is fingers crossed that I'd like to see a couple of those leave us sometime during the course of next year, but we're looking to maximize value here and we're looking to improve our tangible book value now that we've brought them on and so we don't want to sell them too cheaply because we're kind of optimistic that we could improve the occupancy of these buildings.

此外，即將到來的降息政策也對我們有利，應該會大大改善資本化率。所以我只能說，希望明年某個時候能看到其中幾棟樓離開我們，但我們現在的目標是最大化價值，提高我們收購這些樓後的賬面有形價值，所以我們不想低價出售它們，因為我們樂觀地認為我們可以提高這些樓的入住率。

Every one of these, we have a reasonably current appraisal on and there's two values in that appraisal every time. But one is the as stabilized value, which is, hey, if this thing is operating normally and isn't under some kind of duress or distress. And then the as is that it's like, no, here's what it is today, yes, some of the things don't work, you just see it as, you got to take those into consideration as the buyer.

這些房產我們都有比較新的評估報告，而且每次評估報告裡都有兩個估值。但其中之一是穩定值，也就是說，如果這東西運作正常，沒有受到任何脅迫或困擾的話。然後，事實就是，不，這就是現在的情況，是的，有些事情行不通，作為買家，你必須把這些因素考慮進去。

So we're in a situation now that the disparity between the as is value and the stabilized values on these are some of the highest we've ever seen. And so what you're getting at is, gosh, would it be nice as we stabilize these, that maybe we can migrate those numbers up. I'd love to do that. We're obviously never going to forecast anything like that.

所以我們現在面臨的情況是，這些資產的現狀價值和穩定價值之間的差距是我們所見過的最高差距之一。所以你的意思是，哎呀，如果我們能穩定住這些數字，那該有多好啊，也許我們可以把這些數字往上移。我很樂意這麼做。我們顯然永遠無法預測這類事情。

Got it. Okay, that makes sense.

知道了。嗯，有道理。

Are you looking to buy a building (multiple speakers)-- (laughter)

您是否正在尋找購買房產的機會？（多人發言）－（笑聲）

(laughter)

（笑聲）

Not for what you're selling it for. I don't have that money, but in terms of [I have cancer] might be a naive question, but was that an NDFI loan? And if so, what kind of subcategory was it?

不值你賣的價錢。我沒有那筆錢，但就我而言（我得了癌症），這可能是一個很天真的問題，但那是非發展金融機構的貸款嗎？如果是的話，它屬於哪一種子類別？

Yeah, it wasn't NDFI loan, and it was in -- the mortgage in our -- market banking situation and be -- so it was because as a financial institution that it's going to be in there. And again, as Ken indicated, what we're doing in our advances here is our numbers would have been very strong, had we had the first position as the borrower, presented that they did and as their contracts demand. That's where we get into this fraud situation, otherwise, this would have never even come up.

是的，這不是非發展金融機構貸款，而是在我們市場銀行體系中的抵押貸款，所以，作為一家金融機構，它肯定會在那裡。正如肯所指出的，我們在這裡所做的，是如果我們作為借款人擁有第一順位，我們的數字將會非常強勁，正如他們所承諾的，並且他們的合約也要求如此。這就是我們陷入詐欺困境的原因，否則，這件事根本不會出現。

David Smith, Truist Securities.

David Smith，Truist Securities。

Can you give us some more details on the mortgage assumptions in your overall earnings sensitivity guide for down rates? Just with a 75% ECR beta on top of what you disclosed about your NII sensitivity, seems like there's very little if any mortgage upside in there. I was wondering if you could help us unpack that some.

您能否詳細說明您在整體收入對利率下降的敏感性指南中關於抵押貸款假設的更多細節？僅考慮 75% 的 ECR beta 值，再加上您披露的 NII 敏感性，似乎抵押貸款幾乎沒有任何上漲空間。我想請您幫我們解釋一下。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, so we -- one of the key factors in terms of how we do on our -- it's basically the evaluation on the MSR relative to what we have as our hedge against it is the volatility or the spreads that have increased over the past few years. We're seeing today those spreads compressed, as if that continues as spreads compressed to historical levels, we're likely to see higher revenue in that scenario because the volatility is something that doesn't really work in our favor. And we saw the inverse of this at the beginning of the of the basically the tariff situation back in April.

嗯，所以——就我們而言，關鍵因素之一——基本上是對MSR相對於我們用來對沖它的波動性或價差的評估，而這些波動性或價差在過去幾年中不斷增加。我們看到今天的價差有所收窄，如果價差繼續收窄至歷史水平，那麼在這種情況下，我們可能會看到更高的收入，因為波動性對我們不利。而我們在四月關稅情勢剛開始時就看到了相反的情況。

In terms of what the Mortgage Bankers Association is actually projecting a little bit -- a little bit better in terms of, purchase activity or total 1 to 4 family in the fourth quarter than in the third. We're not really counting on that, we're thinking it's going to maybe slip slightly just because that's the seasonal trend, but maybe there'll be some higher level of activity because of the rate cuts as long as people are comfortable that the shutdown and things like this aren't going to move unemployment higher.

就抵押貸款銀行家協會的實際預測而言，第四季度的購房活動或1至4戶家庭的總量比第三季略好一些。我們並沒有真的指望這種情況，我們認為它可能會略微下滑，因為這是季節性趨勢，但由於降息，也許會出現一些更高的經濟活動水平，只要人們相信停工之類的事情不會導致失業率上升。

Yeah, the numbers from the NBA for next year, they expect mortgage activity to rise 10% to $2.2 trillion, where almost $1.5 trillion will be purchased volume and then about $700 million will be refinancing. So again, Q4 revenues for mortgage should be just a little weaker than Q3, although I've got some -- I got my fingers crossed here that we could maybe get some tailwinds here, but we are becoming more optimistic about where that revenue stream is going to be for 2026.

是的，根據NBA對明年的預測，他們預期房貸活動將成長10%，達到2.2兆美元，其中近1.5兆美元為購屋款，約7億美元為再融資款。所以，第四季抵押貸款收入應該會比第三季略弱一些，雖然我抱有一些希望——我祈禱我們能得到一些利好因素，但我們對2026年該收入流的前景越來越樂觀。

Okay, and just to circle back to the earnings at risk scenario, could you help us just roughly size how much of the offset to the NII asset sensitivity is coming from ECR benefiting and down rates versus mortgage benefiting and 1down rates for you?

好的，回到收益風險情景，您能否幫我們大致估算一下，淨利息收入資產敏感性的抵消中，有多少來自預期信用風險調整（ECR）和首付利率的利好，又有多少來自抵押貸款利好和首付利率的利好？

Yeah, I think the preponderance is going to be kind of in the mortgage side. But they're both contributors. And if there's more variability in terms of it improving better in the earnings at risk, it's going to be the mortgage related as well. I think we're going to have a higher beta -- on the beta based upon kind of what could happen there versus the ECRs, which we talked about those betas already.

是的，我認為大部分資金會流向抵押貸款領域。但他們都是貢獻者。如果收益風險改善的波動性更大，那也與抵押貸款有關。我認為我們會有一個更高的 beta 值——這個 beta 值是基於那裡可能發生的情況與 ECR 相比而得出的，我們已經討論過 ECR 的 beta 值了。

Bernard Von-Gizycki, Deutsche Bank.

伯納德‧馮‧吉茲茨基，德意志銀行。

So you have a bit over a third of your total deposit base that has ECRs related to them, and when we think about the composition of the deposit base and the ECR related costs which represent about 30% of the total expenses. Can you just talk to expectations of how these change?

因此，您的總存款基礎中略超過三分之一與 ECR 相關，當我們考慮存款基礎的組成以及 ECR 相關成本時，這些成本約佔總支出的 30%。您能談談這些變化帶來的預期嗎？

I know Dale, you're moving over to a new role next year focusing on deposit initiatives. But are you looking to drive down the percentage of the ECR related balances or have them grow but more focused on reducing the ECR costs related to them or a combination of both. Any color you can share these dynamics?

我知道戴爾，你明年將調任新崗位，專注於存款業務。但您是希望降低與 ECR 相關的餘額百分比，還是希望餘額成長但更注重降低與 ECR 相關的成本，還是兩者兼而有之？你能用哪一種顏色來表達這些動態？

Yeah, so the ECR is really driven by two sectors. The largest, of course, is the kind of what we're doing in the mortgage warehouse deposits. We've talked about that and the other one is our homeowners association. So going forward, I believe that the homeowners association deposits are not going to shrink, but they're not going to grow as quickly as the overall footings of deposits for the company. So proportionately that will decline.

是的，所以歐洲改革開放政策實際上是由兩個部門推動的。當然，規模最大的就是我們在抵押貸款倉庫存款方面所做的那種事情。我們已經討論過這個問題了，另一個問題是我們的業主協會。因此，我認為未來業主協會的存款不會減少，但也不會像公司整體存款額那樣快速成長。因此，按比例來說，這個比例會下降。

Meanwhile, our HOA group, we're the largest in the nation in terms of what we provide services there, that growth is continuing to be strong, and I think that was going to at least keep pace with the overall size of the company as it grows.

同時，我們的 HOA 集團，就我們提供的服務而言，我們是全國最大的，而且成長勢頭依然強勁，我認為隨著公司規模的成長，它至少會跟上公司整體規模的步伐。

So in total, I think you're going to see that it becomes kind of less significant. And in terms of the expenses associated with it, as you go to lower rate levels, these numbers just come down and there's really not as much of an asset anywhere else. So it's just the dollars are going to fall back a bit to lower levels if say we get four rate cuts over the next 12 months.

所以總的來說，我認為你會發現它的重要性會降低一些。至於相關的費用，隨著利率水準的降低，這些數字也會隨之下降，而且在其他地方都沒有那麼大的優勢。所以，如果未來 12 個月內我們降息四次，美元匯率就會稍微回落到較低水準。

Okay, and then just on, equity income, the uptake there in 3Q, was that primarily due to the reversal and losses from 1Q? Just curious if that's come back and just given the cap market activity picking up, how should we look at this line item from here?

好的，那麼關於權益收益，第三季的成長主要是由於第一季的虧損和虧損逆轉造成的嗎？我只是好奇，如果這種情況已經恢復，並且鑑於資本市場活動正在回暖，我們應該如何看待這項指標？

We don't have that reversal yet. Thanks for remembering that, but that's still pending. I know this was -- these were other types of things. Look, that number does bounce around a bit. You can obviously see that. So this $8-million handle, certainly higher than usual, a little bit of a haircut there going forward. We don't have anything that indicates that anything is either getting dramatically better or dramatically worse.

我們還沒有看到這種逆轉。謝謝你記得這件事，但這件事目前還在處理中。我知道這是——這些是其他類型的事情。你看，這個數字確實有點波動。這一點顯而易見。所以，這800萬美元的投注額，當然比平常高，但未來可能會下降。我們沒有任何跡象顯示情況正在急劇好轉或急劇惡化。

Anthony Elian, JPMorgan.

Anthony Elian，摩根大通。

You increased the range for ECR cost again this quarter, but this time you maintain the NII range of up 8% to 10%. Was the increase in the ECR deposit cost range tied to just higher balances or because of a lower ability to reprice down those deposits?

本季您再次提高了 ECR 成本範圍，但這次您維持了 NII 範圍在 8% 到 10% 之間。ECR存款費用範圍的增加只是因為存款餘額增加，還是因為降低存款價格的能力下降？

It's really balanced driven. I mean, frankly, we got a little more in the third quarter than we thought we would. So it's balance driven and there's been -- I guess it's a good problem to have and that some of these dollars have grown more quickly, but, it does show up in expenses and it contributes to the situation where you've got to look at adjusted -- efficiency ratio adjusted NIM.

它是一款非常均衡的驅動型產品。坦白說，我們在第三節的成績比我們預想的要好一些。所以這是平衡驅動的，而且——我想這是一個幸福的煩惱，因為其中一些資金增長得更快，但這確實反映在支出中，也導致了你必須查看調整後的——效率比率調整後的淨息差的情況。

Okay, and then on my follow-up on your earlier comments on reviewing the note finance portfolio, have you given any thought to potentially casting a wider net and reviewing the loan portfolio credit procedures more broadly beyond note finance and NDFIs just given investor concerns on the company's credit quality?

好的，關於您先前提出的審查票據融資組合的建議，鑑於投資者對公司信用品質的擔憂，您是否考慮過擴大審查範圍，更廣泛地審查貸款組合信貸程序，而不僅限於票據融資和非金融機構？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I want to quell any misconceptions that might be implied through even some of the questions. No one is more concerned about a credit governance asset quality than our executive management. We've got an entire construct build around the control environment for credit, the second line or credit risk review that's intimately involved.

我想消除可能透過某些問題而產生的任何誤解。沒有誰比我們的高階主管更關心信貸治理和資產品質。我們已經圍繞信貸控制環境建立了一整套體系，其中涉及第二道防線或信貸風險審查。

And so at the earliest stages of something that didn't work as we expected, those teams are involved inside of our company. We're listening and reviewing on a much broader scale. So this work's been ongoing. It goes on all the time as part of our quarterly full portfolio review process, but in addition to that, we hold ourselves accountable and we hold our business accountable through our second and third line who are actively engaged in that. And so we're not asking ourselves, could this happen again. We're receiving validation of those things through our internal control network.

因此，在事情進展不如預期之初，我們公司內部的這些團隊就會參與其中。我們正在更廣泛地進行傾聽和審查。這項工作一直在進行中。這是我們每季全面投資組合審查流程的一部分，除此之外，我們還會透過積極參與其中的第二和第三道防線來追究自身和業務的責任。因此，我們不會問自己，這種事會不會再發生。我們正在透過內部控製網路對這些事情進行驗證。

Jon Arfstrom, RBC Capital Markets.

Jon Arfstrom，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Ken, maybe for you. Do you have any balance sheet size limitations? It looks like you're going through $100 billion very quickly the next couple of quarters. Anything for us to consider and how you're thinking about that?

肯，也許對你來說是這樣。你們對資產負債表規模有任何限制嗎？看來你們將在接下來的幾季迅速消耗掉1000億美元。有什麼需要考慮的嗎？你們是怎麼想的？

No, not really.

不，其實不是。

I think you're right. Of course, we're not going to have a lot of growth in the balance sheet for Q4 just because as we've talked about the seasonal outflow of the warehouse lending deposits or the mortgage deposits. But two things we're doing.

我覺得你說得對。當然，正如我們之前討論過的，由於倉儲貸款存款或抵押貸款存款的季節性外流，第四季度的資產負債表不會有太大增長。但我們正在做兩件事。

One, we're growing the business based upon opportunities that we have, and we're not holding ourselves back because we're going to cross over $100 billion.

第一，我們正在根據我們所擁有的機會發展業務，我們不會因為即將突破 1000 億美元而止步不前。

Number 2, we continue to build out the infrastructure to cross over $100 billion and be LFI ready.

第二，我們將繼續完善基礎設施，以突破 1000 億美元的規模，並做好 LFI 準備。

Number 3, we're waiting and we're hopeful that the tailing rules will come out probably sometime in the middle of next year that we'll move it to [250]. All right, but in all the expense numbers, remember non-ECR operating expenses quarter to quarter only went up $2 million. For the first three quarters of this year, non-ECR operating expenses were in a band of $5 million and that includes all the development and investment we're making to be LFI ready.

第三，我們正在等待，並希望尾礦管理規則能在明年年中左右出台，屆時我們將把相關事宜移至…[250]好的，但請記住，在所有支出數字中，非 ECR 營運支出季度環比僅增加了 200 萬美元。今年前三個季度，非 ECR 營運支出在 500 萬美元左右，其中包括我們為做好 LFI 準備而進行的所有開發和投資。

So to your balance sheet question, we'll cross over $100 billion when it's the right time based on the opportunities that are in front of us, okay, and we'll be ready and we continue to invest and if the tailoring rules come out, then we may slow some of our investment down to match what some of the tailoring rules are.

所以，關於你的資產負債表問題，我們會根據擺在我們面前的機會，在合適的時機突破 1000 億美元大關，好的，我們會做好準備，並繼續投資。如果推出新的調整規則，我們可能會放緩一些投資，以符合這些調整規則的要求。

Okay, all right, fair enough.

好吧，好吧，這說得有道理。

And then Dale, for you, in your prepared comments, you talked about an upward bias in ROTCE and top quartile and ability to show improvement. I'm assuming you're thinking a starting point that includes a more normalized provision. So maybe normalized ROTCE right now is high-teens rather than the mid-teens you printed, and you can do better from there. Is that fair?

然後，Dale，在你準備好的評論中，你談到了ROTCE的向上偏差、前25%以及展現進步的能力。我猜你指的是以更規範化的規定為起點。所以，目前標準化的 ROTCE 可能在十幾個百分點左右，而不是你印出來的十幾個百分點左右，你還可以做得更好。這樣公平嗎？

Sure, yeah. I know that's completely fair, John. Maybe just talk timing a little bit here as well. So yeah, normalized provision that would have obviously augmented the number in the third quarter. As we get to the first quarter in particular, it's a little bit strange. We lose a couple of days, that's meaningful for us. And also you step up again, everyone knows on certain types of taxes and things like this kind of starting the new year. So I'm looking for something to that kind of kick in -- kind of in the back half of [2016] to hopefully get to the levels you're talking about.

當然，是的。我知道這完全公平，約翰。或許也可以在這裡稍微談談時間安排。是的，正常化撥備顯然會增加第三季的數字。尤其是到了第一季度，情況就有點奇怪了。我們耽誤了兩天時間，對我們來說意義重大。而且，大家也都知道，在新的一年開始，某些類型的稅收以及類似的事情都需要再次重視。所以我希望在 2016 年下半年能有這樣的契機，達到你所說的程度。

Yeah, one of the things that can really supercharge the return on average tangible common equity will be the mortgage business next year and the growth in the mortgage business. If it grows more than moderately, that's going to really provide excess earnings, and that will improve the return on equity, John.

是的，明年抵押貸款業務及其成長將是真正能大幅提昇平均有形普通股回報率的因素之一。如果它的成長速度超過適度水平，那將會帶來超額收益，從而提高股本回報率，約翰。

Ebrahim Poonawala, Bank of America.

Ebrahim Poonawala，美國銀行。

Thanks for taking my question. Dale, just to follow-up, I think it's important -- just want to make sure in your slide 24, the 16% loans, NDFI loans, the mortgage intermediaries is about $9.1 billion. The warehouse is about $6 billion and change, and I'm trying to figure what the balance is between the $6 billion and $9 billion and are those non-residential warehouse loans, so like commercial real estate driven? And would you be holding reserves against those loans as opposed to the refi mortgage where you show on the slide where you don't need reserves because of the zero loss nature? Just clarify that for us.

謝謝您回答我的問題。Dale，我再跟進一下，我認為這很重要——我只是想確認一下你幻燈片 24 中提到的 16% 貸款、NDFI 貸款、抵押貸款中介機構的貸款額約為 91 億美元。這個倉庫價值大約 60 億美元多一點，我正在努力弄清楚 60 億美元和 90 億美元之間的差額是多少，這些是非住宅倉庫貸款，也就是商業房地產驅動的貸款嗎？那麼，您是否會為這些貸款持有儲備金，而不是像您在幻燈片中展示的那樣，由於再融資抵押貸款的零損失特性而不需要儲備金？請你解釋清楚。

I think we maybe need to pick this up, it may be at the next call, Ebrahim in terms of what this looks like. I mean, so we've talked about the warehouse piece and where we are on the NDFI elements whereby we're assuming a first out position, and another lender is in front of us with the higher level of risk against loans that typically have low loss to begin with. So let's pick this up later today.

我認為我們可能需要討論這個問題，也許下次通話時，Ebrahim 會談到這個問題的具體情況。我的意思是，我們已經討論了倉儲部分以及我們在非存款金融機構 (NDFI) 要素方面所處的位置，我們假設我們擁有優先權，而另一家貸款機構排在我們前面，其貸款風險較高，而這些貸款通常一開始損失就較低。那我們今天晚些時候再繼續吧。

Timur Braziler, Wells Fargo.

蒂穆爾·布拉齊勒，富國銀行。

Just I guess looking at the Cantor relationship specifically what internal controls maybe failed to detect some of the collateral deficiencies there. And then it looks like in going through the lawsuit that the credit was converted from the line of credit in July to a term loan and then the suit was filed in August. Was the loan re-underwritten in July and the new issues kind of identified weeks later?

我猜想，具體到 Cantor 的關係來看，可能是內部控制措施未能發現其中的一些附帶缺陷。然後，從訴訟記錄來看，這筆信貸在 7 月從信用額度轉為定期貸款，然後在 8 月提起了訴訟。貸款是在7月重新承銷的，而新的問題是在幾週後才被發現的嗎？

Maybe just give me a little bit of a timeline as to what happened around July August there.

或許您可以給我簡單介紹一下七、八月那邊發生的事情。

Yeah, so I'll provide some updates, but I appreciate that this is an active litigation and our discussion here is going to be somewhat limited, but I'll try to help you with your question.

是的，我會提供一些最新進展，但我明白這是一起正在進行的訴訟，我們在這裡進行的討論會受到一些限制，但我會盡力幫你解答你的問題。

First, we had a long-term relationship with this borrow, all right. It dates back to 2017. And as of this past August, the bar was current. We made the decision to exit the relationship and convert the revolving loan to a term loan with a May 2026 maturity. It was during that time that we discovered the bar failed to disclose material facts to us. And consequently, we wasted no time in filing a lawsuit alleging fraud.

首先，我們與這家借款公司建立了長期的合作關係，沒錯。這件事可以追溯到2017年。截至今年8月，該標準仍然有效。我們決定終止合作關係，並將循環貸款轉換為 2026 年 5 月到期的定期貸款。正是在那段時間裡，我們發現酒吧沒有向我們透露重要事實。因此，我們立即提起訴訟，指控對方有詐欺行為。

So that's probably as much as I can tell you, given that we have an active lawsuit here. We're working hard to get a receiver in there as soon as possible, and with that, we're going to have greater insight into the books and records of Cantor V.

鑑於目前還有一起訴訟正在進行中，我大概只能告訴你這些了。我們正在努力盡快安裝接收器，有了它，我們就能更深入地了解坎托爾五世的書籍和記錄。

Thank you. This concludes our Q&A session, and I would now like to turn the call back over to Ken Vecchione for closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束，現在我想把電話交還給 Ken Vecchione，請他作總結發言。

Yeah, thank you all for attending the meeting. Appreciate all your questions. We look forward to the next call. Be well.

是的，謝謝各位出席會議。感謝大家提出的所有問題。我們期待下次通話。祝您健康。

Thank you everyone for joining us today. This concludes our call and you may now disconnect your lines.

感謝各位今天蒞臨。通話到此結束，您可以掛斷電話了。