Varonis Systems Inc (VRNS) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to Varonis Systems' third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded.

問候。歡迎參加Varonis Systems 2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to Tim Perz of Investor Relations. Tim, you may proceed. Thank you.

現在我將把會議交給投資者關係部的蒂姆·佩爾茲。提姆，你可以繼續了。謝謝。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today to review Varonis' third-quarter financial results. With me on the call today are Yaki Faitelson, Chief Executive Officer; and Guy Malamed, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of Varonis. After preliminary remarks, we will open the call to a question-and-answer session.

謝謝接線生。午安.感謝您今天與我們一起回顧Varonis第三季的財務表現。今天與我一起參加電話會議的有 Varonis 的執行長 Yaki Faitelson，以及財務長兼營運長 Guy Malamed。在作初步發言後，我們將進入問答環節。

During this call, we may make statements related to our business that would be considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws, including projections of future operating results for our fourth quarter and full-year ending December 31st, 2025. Due to a number of factors, actual results may differ materially from those set forth in such statements.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會發表一些與我們業務相關的聲明，這些聲明根據聯邦證券法將被視為前瞻性聲明，包括對我們截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度和全年未來經營業績的預測。由於多種因素，實際結果可能與此類聲明中所述的結果有重大差異。

These factors are set forth in the earnings press release that we issued today under the section captioned, Forward-Looking Statements, and these and other important risk factors are described more fully in our reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We encourage all investors to read our SEC filings.

這些因素已在我們今天發布的獲利新聞稿的「前瞻性聲明」部分中列出，這些以及其他重要的風險因素在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告中進行了更詳細的描述。我們鼓勵所有投資者閱讀我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

These statements reflect our views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our views as of any subsequent date. Varonis expressly disclaims any application or undertaking to release publicly any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements made herein.

這些聲明僅反映我們截至今日的觀點，不應被視為代表我們此後任何日期的觀點。Varonis明確聲明，不承擔任何公開更新或修訂本文所作任何前瞻性陳述的義務或責任。

Additionally, non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed on this conference call. A reconciliation for the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures is also available on our third-quarter 2025 earnings press release and our investor presentation, which can be found at www.varonis.com in the Investor Relations section. Lastly, please note that a webcast of today's call is available on our website in the Investor Relations section.

此外，本次電話會議也將討論非GAAP財務指標。我們還提供了與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標進行核對的表格，該表格可在 www.varonis.com 的投資者關係部分找到。最後，請注意，今天電話會議的網路直播可以在我們網站的投資者關係版塊找到。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to our Chief Executive Officer, Yaki Faitelson. Yaki?

接下來，我想把電話交給我們的執行長亞基·費特爾森。烤肉？

Thanks, Tim. And good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us to discuss our third quarter performance. We finished the third quarter with 76% of our total company ARR coming from SaaS, which means that we have now completed the SaaS transition in less than three years and more than two years ahead of plan.

謝謝你，提姆。大家下午好。感謝您抽出時間與我們討論我們第三季的業績。第三季末，我們公司總 ARR 的 76% 來自 SaaS，這意味著我們已經在不到三年的時間內完成了 SaaS 轉型，比計劃提前了兩年多。

In February, on our first-quarter earnings call, we noted that Varonis is the story of two companies, and this remains true today. Our SaaS business, it drives our momentum as SaaS customers benefit from the simplicity and automated outcomes of the platform and our on-prem subscription business that drags on total company ARR growth and masks the strengths of our SaaS business.

今年 2 月，在我們第一季財報電話會議上，我們指出 Varonis 的故事是由兩家公司組成的，而今天仍然如此。我們的 SaaS 業務推動了我們的發展勢頭，因為 SaaS 客戶受益於該平台的簡潔性和自動化結果；而我們的本地訂閱業務則拖累了公司整體 ARR 增長，並掩蓋了我們 SaaS 業務的優勢。

Let's start by reviewing our third-quarter results. ARR increased 18% year over year to $718.6 million. However, in the final weeks of the quarter, we experienced weaker-than-expected renewals in our federal business and our non-federal on-prem subscription business, which resulted in Q3 coming below our expectations. As a result of continued underperformance in the federal vertical, we will be reducing the size of the team until we see improvement.

讓我們先來回顧一下第三季的業績。年度經常性收入年增 18%，達到 7.186 億美元。然而，在本季的最後幾週，我們的聯邦業務和非聯邦本地訂閱業務的續訂情況均弱於預期，導致第三季業績低於預期。由於聯邦業務部門持續表現不佳，我們將縮減團隊規模，直到情況改善為止。

Now that we have completed our SaaS transition, we are now announcing the end-of-life of our self-hosted solution as of December 31, 2026. We expect this to result in increased uncertainty with our remaining OPS business going forward. In each of the first two quarters of this year, we saw improvement in our growth renewal rate across the business, which is why the reduction in the renewal rate that happened in the final weeks of Q3 was unexpected.

現在我們已經完成了 SaaS 轉型，現在宣布自架解決方案將於 2026 年 12 月 31 日停止服務。我們預計這將導致我們剩餘的營運業務未來面臨更大的不確定性。今年前兩個季度，我們整個業務的成長續約率都有所提高，因此第三季最後幾週續約率的下降出乎意料。

To account for this recent change as well as our decision to end-of-life of self-hosted solution, we are baking in additional conservatism to our guidance and have assumed even lower renewal rates in our OPS business for the fourth quarter. We are also taking thoughtful and prudent steps to manage expenses across the business, which includes a 5% reduction in headcount in order to reallocate our resources where we see the highest return on investment. I will review our results and updated guidance in more detail shortly.

為了應對這一最新變化以及我們決定終止自託管解決方案，我們在業績指引中加入了更多保守因素，並假設第四季度 OPS 業務的續約率會更低。我們也正在採取深思熟慮、謹慎周全的措施來管理公司各項開支，其中包括裁員 5%，以便將資源重新分配到投資回報率最高的地方。我將盡快詳細解讀我們的研究結果和更新後的指導。

Despite the softness we experienced in our OPS business, we again saw strong demand for SaaS platform during Q3. This is happening because customers are able to secure their data with significantly less effort. Within our SaaS portfolio, the rise for cloud environments continue to show traction during Q3, which was driven by the investment we have made in our platform to expand to additional use cases and protect many more platforms.

儘管我們的營運業務表現疲軟，但第三季我們再次看到對 SaaS 平台的強勁需求。這是因為客戶能夠以更少的精力保護自己的資料。在我們的 SaaS 產品組合中，雲端環境的成長在第三季度繼續保持強勁勢頭，這得益於我們對平台的投資，以擴展到更多用例並保護更多平台。

Our ability to protect cloud data represents a significant growth opportunity for us as we're just beginning to scratch the surface. Because the transition is complete, our reps can put more focus on new business and upselling existing SaaS customers, as we believe this additional focus on upsell will help us unlock this market potential.

我們保護雲端資料的能力對我們來說是一個重要的成長機會，因為我們才剛開始涉足這個領域。由於過渡已經完成，我們的銷售代表可以更加專注於新業務和現有 SaaS 客戶的追加銷售，因為我們相信，這種對追加銷售的額外關注將有助於我們釋放這一市場潛力。

Now I would like to take a step back from our new term results and discuss the opportunities we are excited about moving forward. As I have said in prior quarters, bad actors, not breaking. They log in. Once an identity is compromised, there is no perimeter, and companies need a sophisticated data security platform to keep their data safe.

現在我想暫時放下新學期的成果，來談談我們未來充滿期待的機會。正如我之前幾季所說，不良行為者不會破壞。他們登入了。一旦身分被盜用，就沒有防禦邊界了，公司需要一個複雜的資料安全平台來保護其資料安全。

Varonis takes a data-first approach and helps companies locate their sensitive data, visualize who has access to it, automatically lock it down, and then automatically detect and respond to threats on it. Performing only one or two of these tasks is insufficient to secure data. What sets Varonis apart is our ability to successfully do all three of these tasks on data everywhere.

Varonis 採用數據優先的方法，幫助公司定位其敏感數據，視覺化誰有權存取這些數據，自動鎖定這些數據，然後自動偵測並應對這些數據上的威脅。僅執行其中一兩項任務不足以保障資料安全。Varonis 的獨特之處在於我們能夠成功地在任何地方的數據上完成所有這三項任務。

Our SaaS platforms and MDDR have significantly reduced the amount of effort and resources needed to secure data. AI continues to put a huge spotlight on the need for data security, and the CISOs that I speak with want to ensure three key things. They won't have a data breach, they won't face compliance fines, and they want to secure their data to enable safe use of AI in an effortless way. Addressing this problem has always been difficult. And in the age of AI, it becomes even harder to secure data without sophisticated automation.

我們的 SaaS 平台和 MDDR 大大減少了保護資料所需的努力和資源。人工智慧持續凸顯資料安全的重要性，我接觸過的資訊安全長 (CISO) 都希望確保三件關鍵的事情。他們不會遭遇資料洩露，不會面臨合規罰款，他們希望保護自己的數據，以便輕鬆安全地使用人工智慧。解決這個問題一直都很困難。在人工智慧時代，如果沒有複雜的自動化技術，保護資料安全將變得更加困難。

In the third quarter, we continue to see demand from companies looking to protect their data to safely realize productivity benefits for Copilot, and we believe we are still in the early stages of starting to capitalize on this tailwind. In July, we announced an update to our strategic partnership with Microsoft and are making significant investments to deepen our integration with them to better enable customers to securely adapt Copilot over time. We believe these investments will ultimately better position us to capitalize on this massive opportunity.

第三季度，我們繼續看到企業希望保護其數據，從而安全地從 Copilot 中獲得生產力優勢，我們相信我們仍處於利用這一順風的早期階段。7 月，我們宣布更新與微軟的策略合作夥伴關係，並進行重大投資以深化與微軟的整合，從而更好地幫助客戶隨著時間的推移安全地適應 Copilot。我們相信，這些投資最終將使我們能夠更好地掌握這一巨大機會。

In July, we announced the release of our next-gen database activity monitoring, or DAM, which stems from the acquisition of Cyral. Varonis Database Activity Monitoring provides cloud-native agentless solution that offers next-generation database security and compliance for the AI era.

7 月，我們宣布推出下一代資料庫活動監控 (DAM) 系統，該系統源自於我們對 Cyral 的收購。Varonis 資料庫活動監控提供雲端原生無代理解決方案，為人工智慧時代提供下一代資料庫安全性和合規性。

Unlike legacy database activity monitoring tools that are slow to deploy and offer limited compliance value, our next-gen DAM solution is part for a broader SaaS platform which delivers rapid deployment, real-time threat detection, automated remediation, and deep visibility into sensitive data access. This provides customers with automated security outcomes on any kind of data using our unified SaaS platform.

與部署緩慢且合規價值有限的傳統資料庫活動監控工具不同，我們的新一代 DAM 解決方案是更廣泛的 SaaS 平台的一部分，可提供快速部署、即時威脅偵測、自動修復以及對敏感資料存取的深入可見性。這為客戶提供了基於我們統一 SaaS 平台的自動化安全解決方案，可處理任何類型的資料。

Earlier this month, we introduced Varonis Interceptor, which offers customers a breakthrough AI-native email security solution designed to stop data breaches before they start and stand on the recent acquisition of SlashNext. The introduction of Interceptor is a natural evolution of our platform and significantly expand our total addressable market by connecting the dots between email identity and data. We believe we will dramatically increase the value for MDDR service and help customers stop threats even earlier in the attack path.

本月初，我們推出了 Varonis Interceptor，它為客戶提供了突破性的 AI 原生電子郵件安全解決方案，旨在阻止資料外洩的發生，而這一切都建立在我們最近收購 SlashNext 的基礎上。Interceptor 的推出是我們平台的自然演進，它透過連接電子郵件身分和數據，顯著擴大了我們的潛在市場。我們相信，我們將大幅提升 MDDR 服務的價值，並協助客戶在攻擊路徑的早期階段就阻止威脅。

With that, I would like to briefly discuss a couple of key customer wins from Q3. We continue to see strong demand for new customers, and one of these was a fintech company that wanted to replace its limited DSP endpoint tools with a data security platform. The incumbent classification vendor could not scale, failed to provide forward and complete classification scale, and also failed to automatically remediate risks or detect threats.

在此，我想簡要討論一下第三季取得的幾個重要客戶成果。我們持續看到對新客戶的強勁需求，其中一家金融科技公司希望用資料安全平台取代其有限的 DSP 端點工具。現有的分類供應商無法擴展規模，未能提供前瞻性和完整的分類規模，也未能自動修復風險或偵測威脅。

Varonis was able to quickly discover overexposed PII data and credentials in plain text that were surfaced by co-pilot users. Varonis also automatically remediated this exposure and provided a current and complete view of their cloud data under a single dashboard. They purchased Varonis SaaS with MDDR for hybrid environments and Copilot Azure AWS ServiceNow, Snowflake, and databases. We also continue to see our self-hosted customers looking to convert to SaaS.

Varonis 能夠快速發現副駕駛用戶以明文形式洩露的過度暴露的個人識別資訊 (PII) 資料和憑證。Varonis 還自動修復了這個風險，並在一個控制面板下提供了雲端資料的最新完整視圖。他們購買了 Varonis SaaS（含 MDDR，適用於混合環境）以及 Copilot Azure AWS ServiceNow、Snowflake 和資料庫。我們也看到越來越多的自架客戶尋求轉型為 SaaS 服務。

This quarter, one example, of this is a global financial services company that has been a Varonis customer since 2010. As a heavily regulated organization, they have historically used Varonis for compliance and auditing use case. They wanted additional visibility into the IaaS data and wanted to simplify the ongoing maintenance of its deployment under one unified SaaS tenant.

本季的一個例子是，一家全球金融服務公司自 2010 年以來一直是 Varonis 的客戶。作為一個受到嚴格監管的機構，他們歷來都使用 Varonis 來進行合規性和審計工作。他們希望更清楚地了解 IaaS 數據，並希望簡化在統一的 SaaS 租戶下部署的持續維護。

They evaluated a number of DSPM vendors, but it did not provide the breadth of support and automated outcomes that Varonis did. This organization upgraded to Varonis SaaS for hybrid environments and Copilot, Active Directory, Exchange Online, Edge, Unix, privacy automation, and Varonis for IaaS.

他們評估了許多 DSPM 供應商，但沒有一家能像 Varonis 一樣提供如此廣泛的支援和自動化結果。該組織升級到 Varonis SaaS 以適應混合環境，並升級到 Copilot、Active Directory、Exchange Online、Edge、Unix、隱私自動化和 Varonis IaaS。

In summary, although we are disappointed with the performance of our on-prem business during the final weeks of the third quarter, we continue to be encouraged by the strong demand we see for our SaaS platform, which now represents 76% of total company's ARR. This demand is driven by the automated outcomes and scale that it provides, as well as customer interest in deploying AI initiatives and securing data in the cloud.

總而言之，儘管我們對第三季最後幾週本地部署業務的表現感到失望，但我們仍然受到 SaaS 平台強勁需求的鼓舞，該平台目前占公司 ARR 總收入的 76%。這種需求是由其提供的自動化結果和規模，以及客戶對部署人工智慧計劃和在雲端保護資料的興趣所驅動的。

With that, let me turn the call over to Guy. Guy?

那麼，我把電話交給蓋伊吧。蓋伊？

Thanks, Yaki. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. As Yaki mentioned, we see Varonis as two companies: our healthy SaaS business, which now represents 76% of our total ARR, or approximately $545 million; and our on-prem business, whose weakest performance is masking the underlying growth of SaaS in total company results. I will expand on this shortly, but let me first recap our Q3 results and update guidance.

謝謝你，Yaki。大家下午好。感謝您今天蒞臨。正如 Yaki 所提到的，我們認為 Varonis 由兩家公司組成：我們健康的 SaaS 業務，目前占我們總 ARR 的 76%，約 5.45 億美元；以及我們的本地部署業務，其表現最弱，掩蓋了 SaaS 在公司整體業績中的潛在增長。我稍後會詳細說明，但首先讓我回顧一下我們第三季度的業績並更新業績指引。

In the third quarter, ARR increased 18% year over year to $718.6 million. Our quarterly results did not meet our expectations due to weaker than expected renewals in our federal and non-federal on-prem subscription business in the final weeks of the quarter. In each of the first two quarters of this year, we saw an improvement in our gross renewal rate across the business, which is why the reduction in the renewal rate in the final weeks of Q3 was unexpected.

第三季度，年度經常性收入年增 18%，達到 7.186 億美元。由於本季度最後幾週聯邦和非聯邦本地訂閱業務的續訂量低於預期，我們的季度業績未能達到預期。今年前兩個季度，我們整個業務的毛續約率都有所提高，因此第三季最後幾週續約率的下降出乎意料。

Since it is unclear if this reduction is specific to the customers that were up for renewal in Q3 or will be applicable to the population of remaining on-prem subscription customers, we have assumed a lower renewal rate in the fourth quarter and expect continued variability in our on-prem renewal rates going forward.

由於尚不清楚此次降幅是僅限於第三季即將續約的客戶，還是適用於剩餘的本地訂閱客戶群，因此我們假設第四季度的續約率會降低，並預計未來本地續約率將繼續波動。

As it relates to our guidance, we are now baking in additional conservatism for the fourth quarter to account for our weaker Q3 results and the decision to end-of-life our self-hosted solution. At the same time, our SaaS business remains very healthy, even when excluding the impact of conversion. And we continue to see the SaaS NRR trend at very healthy levels. We expect that this demand will continue to be the growth driver of our business going forward.

就我們的業績指引而言，鑑於第三季度業績疲軟以及我們決定終止自託管解決方案，我們現在對第四季度採取了更保守的預期。同時，即使不考慮轉換率的影響，我們的 SaaS 業務依然非常健康。我們持續看到 SaaS 淨經常性收入 (NRR) 處於非常健康的水平。我們預計，這種需求將繼續成為我們業務未來成長的驅動力。

This is driven by three factors. One, a continuation of the healthy new customer demand that we've seen since the introduction of our SaaS platform. Two, an increased focus on the SaaS upsell motion starting next year due to the completion of the SaaS transition. And three, the investments that we've made in the Microsoft partnership and the acquisition of Cyral and SlashNext that we expect will start to generate returns.

這主要受三個因素驅動。第一，自從我們推出 SaaS 平台以來，我們看到的新客戶需求一直保持健康成長。第二，由於 SaaS 轉型完成，從明年開始將更加重視 SaaS 追加銷售。第三，我們對微軟合作以及對 Cyral 和 SlashNext 的收購進行的投資，我們預計這些投資將開始產生回報。

In the third quarter, ARR was $718.6 million, increasing 18% year over year. And year to date, we generated $111.6 million of free cash flow, up from $88.6 million in the same period last year. In the third quarter, total revenues were $161.6 million, up 9% year over year. SaaS revenues were $125.8 million. Term license subscription revenues were $24.8 million, and maintenance and services revenues were $10.9 million as our renewal rates remained over 90%.

第三季度，年度經常性收入為 7.186 億美元，年增 18%。今年迄今為止，我們產生了 1.116 億美元的自由現金流，高於去年同期的 8,860 萬美元。第三季總營收為 1.616 億美元，年增 9%。SaaS收入為1.258億美元。期限許可訂閱收入為 2,480 萬美元，維護和服務收入為 1,090 萬美元，續訂率維持在 90% 以上。

Moving down to the income statement, I'll be discussing non-GAAP results going forward. Gross profit for the third quarter was $128.3 million, representing a gross margin of 79.4% compared to 85% in the third quarter of 2024. Our gross margin continues to track ahead of our expectations, and we feel very confident in our long-term target set at our Investor Day.

接下來，我將討論損益表中的非GAAP績效。第三季毛利為 1.283 億美元，毛利率為 79.4%，而 2024 年第三季的毛利率為 85%。我們的毛利率持續超出預期，我們對在投資人日上設定的長期目標充滿信心。

Operating expenses in the third quarter totaled $128.1 million. As a result, third-quarter operating income was $0.2 million, or an operating margin of 0.1%. This compares to an operating income of $9.1 million or an operating margin of 6.1% in the same period last year. Third-quarter ARR contribution margin was 16.3%, up from 15% last year.

第三季營運支出總計1.281億美元。因此，第三季營業收入為 20 萬美元，營業利潤率為 0.1%。相較之下，去年同期營業收入為 910 萬美元，營業利益率為 6.1%。第三季年度經常性收入貢獻率達 16.3%，高於去年的 15%。

During the quarter, we had financial income of approximately $10.1 million, driven primarily by interest income on our cash, deposit, and investments in marketable securities. Net income for the third quarter of 2025 was $8.4 million or net income of $0.06 per diluted share compared to a total of net income of $13.8 million or net income of $0.10 per diluted share for the third quarter of 2024. This is based on 134.1 million diluted shares outstanding and 134.7 million diluted shares outstanding for Q3 2025 and Q3 2024 respectively.

本季度，我們的財務收入約為 1,010 萬美元，主要來自現金、存款和有價證券投資的利息收入。2025 年第三季淨收入為 840 萬美元，即每股攤薄淨收入 0.06 美元，而 2024 年第三季淨收入總額為 1,380 萬美元，即每股攤薄淨收入 0.10 美元。這是基於 2025 年第三季 1.341 億股稀釋後流通股和 2024 年第三季 1.347 億股稀釋後流通股計算得出的。

As of September 30, 2025, we had $1.1 billion in cash, cash equivalent, short-term deposits and marketable securities. For the nine months ended September 30, 2025, we generated $122.7 million of cash from operations, compared to $90.9 million generated in the same period last year, and CapEx was $8.7 million compared to $2.3 million in the same period last year.

截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日，我們擁有 11 億美元的現金、現金等價物、短期存款和有價證券。截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日的九個月，我們從經營活動中產生了 1.227 億美元的現金，而去年同期產生的現金為 9,090 萬美元；資本支出為 870 萬美元，而去年同期為 230 萬美元。

Turning now to our updated 2025 guidance in more detail. For the fourth quarter of 2025, we expect total revenues of $165 million to $171 million, representing growth of 4% to 8%, non-GAAP operating income of breakeven to $3 million, and non-GAAP net income per diluted share in the range of $0.02 to $0.04. This assumes 133.4 million diluted shares outstanding.

接下來，我們將更詳細地介紹我們更新後的 2025 年指導方針。我們預計 2025 年第四季總營收為 1.65 億至 1.71 億美元，年增 4% 至 8%；非 GAAP 營業收入為損益兩平點至 300 萬美元；非 GAAP 每股稀釋淨收益為 0.02 美元至 0.04 美元。此預測基於 1.334 億股攤薄後流通股的假設。

For the full-year 2025, we now expect ARR of $730 million to $738 million, representing growth of 14% to 15%, free cash flow of $120 million to $125 million, and total revenues of $615.2 million to $621.2 million, representing growth of 12% to 13%; non-GAAP operating loss of negative $8.2 million to negative $5.2 million; non-GAAP net income per diluted share in the range of $0.12 to $0.13. This assumes 134.8 million diluted shares outstanding.

我們現在預計2025年全年年度經常性收入（ARR）為7.3億美元至7.38億美元，年增14%至15%；自由現金流為1.2億美元至1.25億美元；總收入為6. 152億美元至6.212億美元，年增12%至13%；非GAAP營業虧損為-820萬美元至-520萬美元；非GAAP每股攤薄淨收益為0.12美元至0.13美元。以上預測是基於1.348億股攤薄後流通股的假設。

Lastly, as we announced today, our Board has authorized $150 million share repurchase program. We're able to make this announcement due to our strong balance sheet with over $1 billion in liquidity and our healthy free cash flow generation. In summary, while we are disappointed with the performance of our on-prem business during the third quarter, we remain confident in the performance of our SaaS business. We will continue to thoughtfully manage our business, which we believe will ultimately benefit our customers, company, and shareholders in the long term.

最後，正如我們今天宣布的那樣，董事會已批准一項 1.5 億美元的股票回購計畫。我們之所以能夠發布這項公告，是因為我們擁有強勁的資產負債表，流動資金超過10億美元，自由現金流狀況良好。總而言之，雖然我們對第三季本地部署業務的表現感到失望，但我們對 SaaS 業務的表現仍然充滿信心。我們將繼續審慎經營，我們相信這最終將使我們的客戶、公司和股東長期受益。

With that, we would be happy to take questions. Operator?

那麼，我們很樂意回答大家的問題。操作員？

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

謝謝。（操作說明）Meta Marshall，摩根士丹利。

Great, thanks. Maybe a question for me is just in terms of kind of you guys had just received FedRAMP high authorization for the SaaS platform. And so I guess just what went into some of the decision to terminate some of the people on the federal team, and just how do you pursue that opportunity going forward? Thanks.

太好了，謝謝。我想問的問題是，你們剛剛獲得了SaaS平台的FedRAMP高級授權。所以，我想知道是什麼原因促使你們決定解僱聯邦團隊中的一些成員，以及你們將如何繼續抓住這個機會？謝謝。

We have the FedRAMP moderate, but we just don't have empirical evidence in terms of looking at all the investment. This is the place that we need to invest in. We've said all along that it doesn't behave like the enterprise business. And we haven't figured out why the federal continued to underperform. It's just the result we are reducing the footprint of the federal team and just regrouping and reevaluating the strategy there.

我們有 FedRAMP 的溫和措施，但我們還沒有實證數據來考察所有投資。這就是我們應該投資的地方。我們一直都說，它的運作方式與企業業務不同。我們至今仍未弄清聯邦政府為何持續表現不佳。這只是我們縮減聯邦團隊規模、重新調整和重新評估該策略的結果。

The data there is important, but we see when we just move these customers to SaaS, it's just a tremendous value proposition with all the automations, and we believe that The database activity monitoring and the email is very strong and just want to mainly invest in the place that we can move these customers to SaaS as fast as possible.

那裡的數據固然重要，但我們發現，當我們把這些客戶遷移到 SaaS 時，憑藉所有自動化功能，它就具有巨大的價值。我們相信資料庫活動監控和電子郵件功能非常強大，因此我們只想主要投資於能夠盡快將這些客戶遷移到 SaaS 的地方。

Matt Hedberg, RBC Capital Markets.

Matt Hedberg，加拿大皇家銀行資本市場。

Great, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Yaki, was there anything you heard that was consistent for why the on-prem deals didn't renew? I mean, I guess was there anything competitively? And then, Guy, you noted SaaS NRR trends were made at healthy levels. I wonder if you could put a finer point on what level that might imply. Thanks, guys.

太棒了，夥計們。謝謝您回答我的問題。Yaki，你有沒有聽到什麼比較一致的解釋，說明為什麼本地部署協定沒有續約？我的意思是，你們之間有什麼競爭嗎？然後，Guy，你指出 SaaS NRR 趨勢處於健康水平。我想知道您能否更詳細地解釋一下這可能意味著什麼層面。謝謝各位。

Hi, Matt. So the win rate stayed the same. We have more than 75% of ARR coming from the SaaS, and the SaaS platform is performing very well. We identified that some of our apps were very focused on the SaaS customers. And unfortunately, they didn't have the account management trigger for the last leg of these OPS customers, primarily when they are single-sided and not using the full Varonis platform on-prem.

嗨，馬特。所以勝率不變。我們超過 75% 的 ARR 來自 SaaS，而且 SaaS 平台表現非常出色。我們發現，我們的一些應用程式非常注重 SaaS 客戶。不幸的是，對於這些 OPS 客戶的最後階段，他們沒有帳戶管理觸發器，主要是因為這些客戶是單邊客戶，並且沒有在本地使用完整的 Varonis 平台。

You know our methodology of find six alerts, find the critical data, do the remediation, and do the threat detection. And we're just going back to the basics and make sure we are getting back of taking care of these customers in the right way and that they are going to them in a very systematic way, demonstrating the value of SaaS, almost treating them as a new sales campaign and just not assuming that the fact that there are good signs and positive conversations, they will just move on.

您知道我們的方法，即找到六個警報，找到關鍵數據，進行補救，並進行威脅偵測。我們現在回歸基本，確保以正確的方式重新照顧這些客戶，並以非常系統的方式與他們接觸，展示 SaaS 的價值，幾乎把他們當作新的銷售活動來對待，而不是想當然地認為，即使出現了良好的跡象和積極的對話，他們也會繼續前進。

When we look at it, there is just not one common thread. There is not one common theme why these OPS customers didn't renew, and this is why we are just very careful. But I think what we've seen more than anything else that this is this crystal-clear tale of two companies, just this automated platform with just all the coverage that is very easy to take the -- all the rest of the integration.

我們仔細觀察就會發現，其中根本沒有一個共同點。這些 OPS 客戶不續約的原因並沒有什麼共同點，所以我們現在非常謹慎。但我認為我們最清楚地看到的是，這是一個關於兩家公司的清晰故事，只是一個自動化平台，它涵蓋了所有方面，而且很容易進行所有其他整合。

Many customers want DA cloud. And when we are competing with these, what we call the [DSPM] ankle biters, we have very, very high win rates there to these OPS customers. So this is really what we are doing now is to make sure we are very focused on the last leg and to move these customers to SaaS.

許多客戶想要DA雲。當我們與這些我們稱之為 [DSPM] 小客戶競爭時，我們在 OPS 客戶中取得了非常非常高的勝率。所以，我們現在所做的，實際上是確保我們非常專注於最後階段，並將這些客戶轉移到 SaaS 平台。

And Matt, in relation to your NRR question, as Yaki mentioned, this is definitely a -- there's two companies right now in Varonis. We talked about that in the Q4 earning call about the fact that the SaaS business is strong. And when we look at the results in Q3, I think the overall on-prem subscription business is somewhat dragging and masking the healthy business that we have in SaaS.

馬特，關於你提出的 NRR 問題，正如 Yaki 所提到的，這絕對是——目前 Varonis 有兩家公司。我們在第四季財報電話會議上討論過SaaS業務表現強勁這一事實。當我們審視第三季的業績時，我認為整體的本地部署訂閱業務在某種程度上拖累了整體業績，掩蓋了我們在 SaaS 領域健康的業務表現。

When you look at NRR, and I'm looking at NRR on the SaaS side because that's really what matters, we're definitely seeing that NRR continuing to be in very healthy levels and well ahead of the total company NRR. We do disclose the NRR number on an annual basis, and we will provide the SaaS NRR at the end of the Q4.

當你查看 NRR 時（我指的是 SaaS 方面的 NRR，因為這才是真正重要的），我們確實看到 NRR 繼續保持在非常健康的水平，並且遠遠領先於整個公司的 NRR。我們會按年度公佈 NRR 數據，並將於第四季末提供 SaaS NRR 數據。

But just to remind you, the conversion uplift is not included in that calculation, so it's really a reflection of kind of the ability to go back to our SaaS customers and continue to sell them additional licenses. And we definitely have plenty to sell to those customers with the amount of platforms that we have. So we're extremely encouraged by the numbers that we see there, and we feel very good about the SaaS business.

但需要提醒您的是，轉換率提升並未包含在該計算中，因此它實際上反映了我們能夠重新聯繫 SaaS 客戶並繼續向他們銷售外許可證的能力。我們擁有如此多的平台，肯定有很多產品可以賣給這些客戶。因此，我們對這些數據感到非常鼓舞，並且對 SaaS 業務充滿信心。

Fatima Boolani, Citigroup.

法蒂瑪·布拉尼，花旗集團。

Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my question. Guy and Yaki, you've sort of identified that this non-renewal or rather churn on an enterprise customer, presumably, was maybe more of an isolated event. But you are being prudent, and you are, frankly, taking a hatchet to your ARR guidance for the year.

午安.非常感謝您回答我的問題。Guy 和 Yaki，你們似乎已經確定，這家企業客戶的不續約或流失，大概只是個別事件。但你的做法很謹慎，坦白說，你正在大幅削減今年的年度經常性收入預期。

So I'm wondering, in the 24% of the ARR base that is not SaaS, What are some of the granular assumptions or thought processes you're reflecting to give us a better sense that, hey, we've kind of hit the floor on something like this happening again and frankly, for most of next year, ahead of which maybe customers are going to have an air pocket in terms of their decision making. So can you help us through some of that in terms of how you're putting parameters on the risk to the 24% of ARR that is not SaaS? Thank you.

所以我想知道，在佔 ARR 基數 24% 的非 SaaS 部分中，您有哪些具體的假設或思考過程，以便讓我們更好地了解，嘿，我們已經對類似的事情再次發生準備不足，坦白說，在明年大部分時間裡，甚至在此之前，客戶在決策方面可能會有一段不確定期。那麼，您能否幫我們解釋一下，您是如何為佔年度經常性收入 (ARR) 24% 的非 SaaS 部分設定風險參數的？謝謝。

So when you look at the fourth quarter -- and I'll talk about the fourth quarter first, and then I'll give you some color on kind of how we're thinking about 2026. But the fourth quarter is really the largest quarter of the year. And we want to wait and see how the business performs before providing really a formal look into 2026.

所以，當我們展望第四季時——我先談談第四季度，然後再簡單介紹一下我們對 2026 年的看法。但第四季實際上是一年中最重要的季度。我們想先觀察一下公司業務的發展情況，然後再正式展望 2026 年。

I will tell you, and I want to talk about Q4 for a second, that if we had the same renewal rate that we saw for the on-prem subscription business in H1 2025 and the same renewal rate that we saw for the full-year 2024 for the on-prem subscription business, we would have raised our full-year guidance. So this reduction of guidance is isolated to the on-prem subscription, and the fact that it behaved, I would say, unpredictably, especially in the last two weeks of the quarter.

我想告訴大家，並且我想簡單談談第四季度的情況，如果我們在 2025 年上半年本地訂閱業務的續訂率與 2024 年全年本地訂閱業務的續訂率相同，我們就會提高全年的業績預期。因此，此次下調業績指引僅限於本地訂閱服務，而且可以說，該服務的表現難以預測，尤其是在本季的最後兩週。

When we were going throughout the quarter, we didn't see any change, and we really saw this happen in the last two weeks of the quarter. And that's why we want to evaluate when we see in Q4 and kind of take into consideration whether this was a one-time on the on-prem subscription or if this is a much more of a trend.

整個季度期間，我們沒有看到任何變化，直到季度末的最後兩週，我們才真正看到這種情況發生。所以，我們希望在第四季度進行評估，並考慮這是否只是本地訂閱的一次性現象，還是更普遍的趨勢。

I will tell you that from a guidance perspective, we baked in additional conservatism because we want to make sure that we account for this behavior and also for the fact that we announced end-of-life on the on-prem subscription. So we are baking both of those things into our guidance. And based on what we see in Q4, we will take that into consideration when we look at 2026.

從指導的角度來看，我們採取了額外的保守措施，因為我們想確保考慮到這種行為，以及我們宣布停止本地訂閱服務的事實。因此，我們將這兩點都融入我們的指導方針中。根據我們在第四季度看到的情況，我們在展望 2026 年時會把這一點考慮在內。

Joshua Tilton, Wolfe Research.

Joshua Tilton，沃爾夫研究公司。

Awesome. Maybe just one for me, and the answer might be you guys are still kind of trying to figure it out. But I guess I'm listening to everything that's going on the call, and I understand what happened in the quarter, but I'm still a little confused on the why.

驚人的。也許我只需要回答一個，而你們可能還在摸索中。但我感覺我聽了電話會議上的所有內容，也了解了本季發生的事情，但我仍然不太明白其中的原因。

From your perspective and what happened, what was the reason as to why you saw some of these lower-than-expected renewals in the on-prem business, both for Fed and not Fed? And my follow-up to that, maybe just a little more directly, is on the Fed side, was it related to the shutdown? And on the non-Fed side, were these customers aware that the end-of-life was going to happen? Or is this announcement of end-of-life kind of post-quarter, if that makes sense?

從你的角度來看，以及考慮到所發生的事情，你認為導致本地部署業務續約率低於預期（包括 Fed 和非 Fed 的續約）的原因是什麼？我的後續問題，或許可以更直接一些，是關於聯準會方面的問題，這是否與政府停擺有關？至於非聯準會用戶，這些用戶是否知道產品生命週期即將結束？或者說，這個產品生命週期結束的公告算是季度末的公告嗎？

So we kind of heard you scrambled at the end, but I think I got the gist of the question, and I want to give some color as to what happened within the Q3. So really, as it relates to this quarter, we really saw multiple factors that came up, but we didn't identify any big theme that relates to our customers that did not renew on the on-prem subscription renewals.

我們好像聽出你最後有點語無倫次，但我認為我理解了問題的要點，我想就第三季度發生的事情做一些補充說明。所以，就本季而言，我們確實看到了多種因素，但我們沒有發現任何與未續訂本地部署訂閱的客戶相關的重大主題。

I think we identified sales process issues and the conversions that weren't related to the contracts and the documentations that we've talked a lot about in the past. And we're going back to basics to address these issues.

我認為我們已經發現了銷售流程問題以及與我們過去經常討論的合約和文件無關的轉換率問題。我們將回歸基本原則來解決這些問題。

We also identified, and we think some additional auditory scrutiny from customers this quarter, but it's really hard to say for certain if that was a factor because it happened so late in the quarter. And obviously, as you mentioned, We had the federal underperformance. I can tell you that one thing that was clear to us is that we didn't see a change in the competitive win rate, and we're still in discussions with some of these customers that did not renew.

我們還發現，我們認為本季客戶對產品進行了額外的聽覺審查，但由於這種情況發生在季度末，很難確定這是否是一個因素。顯然，正如您所提到的，聯邦政府的表現不盡人意。我可以告訴你們，有一點很明確，那就是我們的競爭勝率沒有發生變化，而且我們仍在與一些沒有續約的客戶進行談判。

And with some of them, it was clear that they were what we call single spread, that did some classification and audit, and did it do all the fine-fix methodology. In some cases, the heart of the terms process is a POC and then a QBR that shows the value and an EBC that shows everything that we have in terms of roadmap and so forth.

對於其中一些，很明顯它們是我們所說的單一展期，進行了一些分類和審計，並且進行了所有精細的修復方法。在某些情況下，條款流程的核心是概念驗證 (POC)，然後是季度業務回顧 (QBR)，以展示價值，以及執行業務回顧 (EBC)，以展示我們在路線圖等方面擁有的一切。

Some teams didn't really follow this methodology. And also, it's a tale of two companies, but the vast majority is now in SaaS. And for some of the teams it's easier to pay attention to the SaaS customers, and we want to make sure that we are managing their attention and making sure that we are taking care of this last leg of the transition in the right way.

有些球隊並沒有真正遵循這種方法。而且，這其實是兩家公司的故事，但絕大多數公司現在都處於 SaaS 階段。對於某些團隊來說，專注於 SaaS 客戶更容易，我們希望確保我們能夠吸引他們的注意力，並確保我們能夠以正確的方式處理好過渡的最後階段。

Joseph Gallo, Jefferies.

Joseph Gallo，傑富瑞集團。

Hey, guys, thanks for the question. Should we expect you to ease on that 25% to 30% ASP uplift for conversions, or is there anything you can do to further incentivize the on-premise customers remaining to move to SaaS? And then just in your conversations with customers, is there any sense of the number or percentage of business that maybe would never be willing to or can't move to SaaS? Thanks.

嘿，各位，謝謝你們的提問。我們是否應該期待你們放寬 25% 到 30% 的平均售價提升幅度（針對轉換率），或者你們是否可以採取任何措施來進一步激勵剩餘的本地部署客戶遷移到 SaaS？那麼，在與客戶的交談中，您是否感覺到有多少或多少比例的企業可能永遠不會願意或無法轉向 SaaS？謝謝。

We are just uncovering every stone here. And as we said, there is not one theme. This is something that team now just work extremely well. It was a surprise in the last two weeks of the quarter, so we just need to see how it play out.

我們正在揭開這裡的每一塊石頭。正如我們所說，這並非只有一個主題。團隊現在在這方面做得非常出色。這是本季最後兩週發生的一件令人意外的事，所以我們需要看看事情會如何發展。

And I want to add, when we look at the Q1 and Q2 renewal rate in 2025, we saw that renewal rate increase. So I think when we're looking at the Q3 renewal rate on the on-prem subscription coming down, we're truly trying to understand if this was a one-off or if this is something that we need to pay more attention to going forward. And that's why we reduced the guidance to bake in additional conservatism.

我還要補充一點，當我們查看 2025 年第一季和第二季的續約率時，我們發現續約率有所上升。所以我覺得，當我們看到第三季本地訂閱續訂率下降時，我們真的想弄清楚這是否只是個偶然現象，還是我們需要在未來更加關注的事情。因此，我們減少了指導意見，以體現更多的保守主義。

And I think when we look at the Q4 results, we can identify for 2026, what is kind of the right rate that we should assume going into the year? But when we look at kind of the actions that we have taken, including the reduction of 5% of our headcount and adjusting some of the costs to better adjust to the top line and taking into consideration that conservatism on the guidance, we're trying to do everything right and be active in addressing that and making sure that we uncover every stone to identify how to address this going forward. And that was the thought process following the Q3 OPS renewal rate.

我認為，當我們查看第四季度業績時，我們可以確定 2026 年的大致成長率是多少，以便更好地展望這一年。但當我們審視我們已採取的行動，包括裁減 5% 的員工人數，調整部分成本以更好地適應營收，並考慮到我們對業績指引的保守態度，我們正在努力做到一切正確，積極應對，確保我們找出每一個細節，以確定如何繼續解決這個問題。這是在第三季營運續約率公佈後得出的結論。

Brian Essex, Goldman Sachs.

Brian Essex，高盛集團。

Great. Thank you very much. Thank you for taking the question. It's Brian from JPMorgan. I guess maybe, Yaki, for you, or maybe Guy, if you want to pick this one up, on the SaaS business, it sounds like that business is still very healthy and kind of as expected.

偉大的。非常感謝。感謝您回答這個問題。我是摩根大通的布萊恩。我想，Yaki，或許對你來說，或者Guy，如果你想談談SaaS業務的話，聽起來這個業務仍然非常健康，而且基本上符合預期。

Can you give us a sense of where you think ARR could shake out for the end of the year? I think if we use like your previous 82% guide that puts us in a neighborhood of, I don't know, $615 million at the midpoint, somewhere in that neighborhood, but just a sense of the -- what to expect on the south side. And then as a follow-up contribution from SlashNext, and Cyral, what you expect that could contribute for the rest of the year. Thank you.

您能否大致預測一下您認為年底的 ARR 會是多少？我認為，如果我們沿用您之前提到的 82% 的指導，那我們大概就能知道，中間值大概是 6.15 億美元，差不多在這個範圍內，但這只是一個大致的概念——南部地區的預期情況。然後，SlashNext 和 Cyral 也提出了後續觀點，你們認為這對今年餘下的時間會有什麼影響？謝謝。

So I think when we talked about growing 20-plus percent, we feel very confident with our ability to grow 20-plus percent on the SaaS business. Obviously, kind of the behavior of the on-prem subscription renewals was a surprise to us, and we're trying to address that. But when I look at the SaaS business, it's acting very strong, very healthy, both in the value that we provide our customers, then in our ability to go back to those customers and sell them additional licenses and additional platforms.

所以我覺得，當我們談到成長 20% 以上時，我們對 SaaS 業務實現 20% 以上的成長能力非常有信心。顯然，本地訂閱續訂的行為讓我們感到意外，我們正在努力解決這個問題。但當我審視 SaaS 業務時，它的表現非常強勁、非常健康，無論是在我們為客戶提供的價值方面，還是在我們能夠回頭向這些客戶銷售以外的許可證和額外的平台方面。

So obviously, there is that headwind from the on-prem subscription business, But I would say that when we look at our -- we plan to end the year with 83% of our total ARR coming from SaaS. And the fact that that business is performing really well gives us the confidence that we can continue to grow 20-plus percent on that business.

顯然，本地訂閱業務存在不利影響，但我想說的是，當我們審視我們的計劃時——我們計劃到年底時，SaaS 業務將占我們總 ARR 的 83%。該業務表現非常出色，這讓我們有信心繼續維持該業務20%以上的成長。

That's part of the reason that we announced the end-of-life. being at the end of next year. We want to have this on-prem subscription business in a confined timeframe to be able to be 100% SaaS and show all the benefits that the platform has to our customers and all the leverage and financial benefits that it can generate for the company.

這也是我們宣布產品生命週期將於明年年底結束的部分原因。我們希望在有限的時間內實現本地部署訂閱業務，從而 100% 實現 SaaS，並向我們的客戶展示該平台的所有優勢，以及它能為公司帶來的所有槓桿效應和財務收益。

Regarding SlashNext, we believe that it's a very good acquisition for us and a natural extension for our customers. So today, most of -- a lot of these attacks, the way that they are happening is sophisticated social engineering from a trusted source, these supply chain attacks. And they have -- SlashNext is an unbelievable detection engine for that, and it has a very, very strong multiplier with our MDDR service. And we just started to introduce it, and the reaction is very good.

關於 SlashNext，我們認為這對我們來說是一筆非常好的收購，也是對我們的客戶而言的自然延伸。所以如今，大多數這類攻擊──許多這類攻擊──發生的方式都是透過來自可信來源的複雜社會工程手段，也就是供應鏈攻擊。而且他們確實做到了——SlashNext 是一款非常強大的檢測引擎，可以有效檢測此類攻擊，並且與我們的 MDDR 服務配合使用效果非常顯著。我們剛開始推廣這項服務，反應非常好。

And regarding the database activity monitoring, there are these two incumbents that we can replace. People want to consolidate around one data security platform for security, compliance, and AI usage. And serial proxy works extremely well and everything that we are building around it. So just feel that these are two very strong additions for our platform and they work very well and organically within our sales motion.

至於資料庫活動監控方面，我們可以替換掉這兩個現有的系統。人們希望圍繞著一個資料安全平台進行整合，以實現安全性、合規性和人工智慧應用。串行代理運行得非常好，我們圍繞它構建的一切都運行得非常出色。所以，我認為這兩項功能對我們的平台來說是非常強大的補充，它們與我們的銷售流程配合得非常好，非常自然。

Rudy Kessinger. D. A. Davidson.

魯迪·凱辛格。D. A. 戴維森。

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my question. It's kind of been asked, but I'm just curious, the end-of-life for self-hosted by the end of next year. You just had lower renewal rates than you were expecting in Q3. I mean, do you feel at all that this push to migrate to SaaS is in any way alienating a certain portion of your customers who are just never going to move to SaaS? And if so, I guess, why do that? I imagine some of those customers might be very large strategic customers who have very high lifetime values. Why not let them have a longer timeframe to migrate to SaaS or remain on term license if they want to? Thank you.

嘿，各位，謝謝你們回答我的問題。雖然已經有人問過了，但我只是好奇，自託管服務是否會在明年年底停止服務。第三季的續約率低於預期。我的意思是，您是否覺得這種遷移到 SaaS 的趨勢在某種程度上疏遠了部分永遠不會遷移到 SaaS 的客戶？如果真是這樣，我想，為什麼要這樣做呢？我猜其中一些客戶可能是非常重要的策略客戶，他們的客戶終身價值非常高。為什麼不給他們更長的過渡期，讓他們有時間遷移到SaaS平台，或者如果他們願意，也可以繼續使用定期許可呢？謝謝。

So we wanted to move everybody to SaaS and get rid of the OPS. We always say that it's 10% of the effort and order of magnitude, 10x more value. Just as a business, to operate it, everything that we are doing with engineering and the value that customers are getting, the integration of all our products, the way that we provide support, you need the right platform. Then you need the right business model and the right operating model. And all along the whole thought process was to move to 100% SaaS business, and we just want to also make sure that we are accelerating it.

所以我們希望將所有人遷移到 SaaS 平台，並取消維運部門。我們常說，只要付出十分之一的努力，就能獲得十倍的價值。就像經營一家企業一樣，要經營它，我們所做的一切工程工作，客戶獲得的價值，我們所有產品的集成，以及我們提供支援的方式，都需要一個合適的平台。那你就需要合適的商業模式和合適的營運模式。在整個過程中，我們的目標始終是轉型為 100% SaaS 業務，我們也希望確保加速這項轉型進程。

Because we also believe that in terms of the attention, because this is one of the most important ingredient of our salespeople, we want that their attention will be on getting value to customers, selling more DA Cloud that is doing very, very well this year, selling the SlashNext product, the database activity monitoring, and we are doing so many more. And we just want this slow-touch support model and MDDR and provide all the automations and the whole operating and business model of the company, and also the value proposition is geared towards us.

因為我們也相信，就注意力而言，這是我們銷售人員最重要的素質之一，我們希望他們的注意力集中在為客戶創造價值上，銷售更多今年表現非常非常好的 DA Cloud 產品，銷售 SlashNext 產品、資料庫活動監控產品等等。我們只需要這種慢觸式支援模式和 MDDR，並提供公司的所有自動化和整個營運及業務模式，而且價值主張也是針對我們的。

Add to that, just when you go back to our Investor Day that we held in Q1 of 2023, we defined a transition to be complete when we get anywhere between 70% to 90% of our ARR coming from SaaS. This is actually the first quarter that we are above that 70% threshold, finishing at 76%. And if you go back to conversations that we've had, we always said that we don't want to maintain two types of code, that there are a ton of financial benefits for the organization to be only under SaaS.

此外，回顧我們在 2023 年第一季舉辦的投資者日活動，我們當時就已明確，當 SaaS 收入佔 ARR 的 70% 到 90% 時，轉型就將完成。實際上，這是我們首次超過 70% 的門檻，最終達到 76%。回顧我們先前的對話，我們一直強調我們不想維護兩種類型的程式碼，只採用 SaaS 模式對組織來說有很多經濟上的好處。

And as Yaki mentioned, there's obviously a tremendous difference in value provided to customers that are SaaS versus customers that are on the on-prem subscription. So if you look at the benefits for the customers and if you look at the financial benefits for the organization, we don't want to be stuck between the on-prem subscription business and the SaaS business. SaaS business performing really well, and obviously the on-prem subscription renewals acting the way they did in Q3.

正如 Yaki 所提到的，SaaS 客戶與本地部署訂閱客戶所獲得的價值顯然存在巨大差異。因此，從客戶利益和企業財務利益兩個方面來看，我們不想在本地部署訂閱業務和 SaaS 業務之間搖擺不定。SaaS 業務表現非常出色，顯然，本地部署訂閱續訂情況與第三季的情況類似。

So we would have announced the end-of-life. That was our plan all along. But obviously, with what we see in Q3, we kind of expedited that announcement. But really talking about December, end of December of next year -- and we will work with our customers to make sure that they can move to SaaS and benefit from it. But as we mentioned all along, we didn't want to maintain two types of code. And there are significant financial benefits for the organization not maintaining those two types of on-prem and SaaS and being just on SaaS.

所以我們會宣布它的生命終結。這原本就是我們的計劃。但很顯然，根據我們在第三季看到的情況，我們加快了發佈公告的步伐。但實際上指的是明年 12 月底——我們將與客戶合作，確保他們能夠遷移到 SaaS 並從中受益。但正如我們一直提到的，我們不想維護兩種類型的程式碼。對於企業而言，不維護本地部署和 SaaS 這兩種類型的系統，而只使用 SaaS，可以獲得顯著的經濟效益。

And also the ability of Salesforce to do effective account management, to take care of our customers in the right way, the whole company. Now the lion's share is a SaaS business, and we deal to all of it.

此外，Salesforce 還具備有效的客戶管理能力，能夠以正確的方式照顧我們的客戶，這將惠及整個公司。現在，SaaS 業務佔據了絕大部分份額，我們與所有這些業務都有業務往來。

Roger Boyd, UBS.

羅傑·博伊德，瑞銀集團。

Great. Thanks for taking the questions. Just to go back to Josh's question for a minute, to just be clear, was there any change to how you're approaching renewals on maintenance and term license in the quarter, relative to the second quarter or last year, and whether that maybe led to some of this unpredictability?

偉大的。謝謝您回答問題。回到 Josh 的問題上來，為了更清楚地說明，與第二季度或去年同期相比，你們在本季度處理維護和期限許可續簽的方式是否有任何變化？這是否導致了這種不可預測性？

I guess the context is we had heard some anecdotes that you were maybe more heavily encouraging on-prem customers to move to the SaaS; or in some cases, limiting the ability for customers to renew on maintenance. And just wondering if that at all was informed by this planned end-of-life on-prem business. Thanks.

我猜想，背景是我們聽到了一些傳聞，說你們可能更積極地鼓勵本地部署客戶遷移到 SaaS；或者在某些情況下，限制客戶續訂維護服務的能力。我只是想知道，這是否與這項計劃終止本地部署業務有關。謝謝。

So again, going back to kind of the reasons for the lower renewal rate of the on-prem subscription, we just saw multiple factors. I don't think there was any one big theme that we can pinpoint to the reason of the on-prem subscription renewals behaving the way they were, especially when you look at the Q1 and Q2 renewal rates where the -- when you look at the renewal rate of the company going up in Q1 and Q2, we definitely didn't expect that the Q3 renewals of the on-prem subscription would behave that way.

所以，再說回本地訂閱續訂率較低的原因，我們看到了多種因素。我認為沒有一個可以明確指出本地訂閱續訂情況出現這種變化的單一主要原因，尤其是在查看第一季和第二季的續訂率時——當查看公司第一季和第二季的續訂率時，我們絕對沒有預料到第三季本地訂閱的續訂情況會是這樣。

I think that when you go back, if you go back historically, our sales force has been trying to convert customers in discussions with our customers since we announced the transition. We were able to move as quickly as we have because our reps were discussing this with customers. believe that the benefit of having SaaS and MDDR has much greater value for our customers than being on the on-prem subscription and then having those customers manage the platform themselves.

我認為，回顧歷史，自從我們宣布轉型以來，我們的銷售團隊一直在與客戶進行討論，試圖促成客戶轉換。我們之所以能夠如此迅速地推進這項工作，是因為我們的銷售代表一直在與客戶溝通。我們相信，對於我們的客戶而言，採用 SaaS 和 MDDR 模式比採用本地部署訂閱模式並讓客戶自行管理平台更有價值。

So obviously, I don't know what you heard, but our sales team has been working with customers and will continue to work with our customers to make sure that they get the best platform that we have to offer, which is the SaaS plus the MDDR and all the functionalities that we have under SaaS that we don't have with the on-prem subscription.

顯然，我不知道你聽到了什麼，但我們的銷售團隊一直在與客戶合作，並將繼續與客戶合作，以確保他們獲得我們所能提供的最佳平台，即 SaaS 加上 MDDR 以及我們在 SaaS 下擁有的所有功能，而這些功能在本地部署訂閱中是沒有的。

I think that as we look at the results in Q3, we see a very healthy business under the SaaS platform, and obviously the on-prem subscription acted in a way that surprised us, which is part of the reason that we want to be 100% SaaS by the end of next year. So I don't see this as something that is different in Q3 compared to Q2. I think there were multiple factors that contributed to kind of the lower renewal rate of the on-prem subscription.

我認為，從第三季的業績來看，SaaS 平台的業務發展非常健康，而本地部署訂閱業務的表現顯然出乎我們的意料，這也是我們希望在明年年底前實現 100% SaaS 的原因之一。所以我認為這方面第三季與第二季並無不同。我認為導致本地訂閱續訂率較低的原因有很多。

We talked about the sales process issues. We talked about additional budgetary scrutiny. Obviously, we talked about the federal underperformance. But as I said before, there was one thing that was clear to us, and that was that we didn't see a change in the competitive win rates. And we're still in discussions with some of those customers that didn't renew. So we think we might be able to get some of them back. We're in discussions with them. But obviously, from a guidance perspective, we're assuming a more conservative guidance for Q4 because of the rates that we saw in Q3.

我們討論了銷售流程中的問題。我們討論了加強預算審查的問題。顯然，我們討論了聯邦政府表現不佳的問題。但正如我之前所說，有一件事我們很清楚，那就是我們沒有看到競技勝率改變。我們仍在與一些沒有續約的客戶進行協商。所以我們認為或許能找回其中一些。我們正在與他們進行磋商。但顯然，從業績指引的角度來看，由於第三季的成長率，我們對第四季的業績指引持較保守的態度。

Jason Ader, William Blair.

傑森·阿德，威廉·布萊爾。

Thank you. Good afternoon. So if customers are not renewing their on-prem subscriptions with Varonis and not going to your SaaS, then what are they doing? Because obviously, you wouldn't think they'd want to be exposed if they've had Varonis data protection. And all of a sudden, they don't have access to the technology anymore. So maybe just talk us through that, like what are they doing? And then separately, is term -- is there an element of compression in term contract duration at all? Because we saw that with another software company this morning where they saw some compression in term duration.

謝謝。午安.如果客戶既不續訂 Varonis 的本地部署訂閱，也不轉而使用您的 SaaS 產品，那麼他們都在做什麼呢？很顯然，如果他們使用了 Varonis 資料保護，就不會希望自己的資訊被洩露。突然之間，他們就無法再使用這項技術了。所以，能不能跟我們講解一下，他們在做什麼？此外，長期合約的期限是否有壓縮因素？因為我們今天早上在另一家軟體公司也看到了類似的情況，他們的合約期限有所縮短。

So let me address the first question, and then I'll tackle the second one. When we look at those on-prem subscription renewals, most of them didn't go anywhere. And as I said before, we're in discussions with some of them. For many of these customers, they were single-threaded, meaning they were only protecting on-prem data with a single use case, and they weren't using the full platform that we have with our SaaS offering.

那麼，讓我先回答第一個問題，然後再回答第二個問題。當我們查看這些本地訂閱續訂情況時，發現大多數都沒有續訂。正如我之前所說，我們正在與他們中的一些人進行洽談。對於許多這樣的客戶來說，他們是單線程的，這意味著他們只使用單一用例來保護本地數據，而沒有使用我們 SaaS 產品提供的完整平台。

Historically, we converted these customers without many challenges, but in Q3, we encountered some of these issues and can't really tell if it was a one-off or a new trend. And that's part of the reason that we want to see how Q4 behaves in order to get more color on kind of the rest of the non-SaaS business. In terms of the duration, that wasn't an impact here. We looked at that and analyzed that, and it didn't have an impact.

從歷史上看，我們轉換這些客戶的過程並沒有遇到太多挑戰，但在第三季度，我們遇到了一些問題，而且真的無法判斷這是個別現象還是新的趨勢。這也是我們希望觀察第四季表現，以便更詳細地了解非 SaaS 業務其他部分情況的部分原因。就持續時間而言，這並沒有產生影響。我們對此進行了調查和分析，結果顯示它並沒有產生影響。

Mike Cikos, Needham & Co.

Mike Cikos，Needham & Co.

Hey, guys. Mike Cikos here, and thanks for taking the question. I'm trying to get a sense if there was anything unusual about this OPS renewal cohort in the final weeks of the third quarter. And really, what I'm trying to get at is I'm wondering if the renewal rates was really tied to a smaller subset of customers, i.e., the breadth of customers really skewed to the renewal rates that we're talking to.

嘿，夥計們。我是 Mike Cikos，感謝您回答這個問題。我想了解一下，在第三季的最後幾週，這批 OPS 續約人員是否有任何異常情況。實際上，我想表達的是，我想知道續約率是否真的與一小部分客戶有關，也就是說，我們所討論的續約率是否真的與客戶群的廣度有偏差。

And does that in any way help explain why the team is uncertain on the impact of these renewal rates, maybe just because we don't have enough observed data points? And then I guess secondly, have the OPS renewal rates that we saw in those final weeks of Q3 -- have they persisted in the 4Q now that we have October essentially behind us? I'm just trying to get a sense of what's transpired in the following four weeks.

這是否有助於解釋為什麼團隊對這些續約率的影響感到不確定，也許只是因為我們沒有足夠的觀察數據點？其次，我想問的是，我們在第三季最後幾週看到的 OPS 續約率——在 10 月基本上過去之後，第四季是否仍然保持了這一水平？我只是想了解接下來四周發生了什麼事。

So let me touch on the second part of the question, and I think my understanding is, are we seeing any trends in Q4 on the renewal rate? I think it's important to note, and we've disclosed this in our SEC filings, our business is back in closing, and we closed a significant portion of our business in the last three weeks of the quarter.

那麼，讓我談談問題的第二部分，我的理解是，我們在第四季度是否看到了續約率的任何趨勢？我認為需要指出的是，我們在提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中披露了這一點，我們的業務已經恢復正常，並且我們在本季度的最後三週完成了很大一部分業務。

It's very hard to see how the renewal rate will behave in Q4 when you own the data points that we have sitting here today. And if you go back to Q3, the business was tracking on plan. But really, it was only in the final two weeks of the quarter that we experienced the decline in our renewal rate for the on-prem subscription business, which related really to both the federal and non-federal sectors. So it's very hard for us to bake in any assumptions.

光是我們目前掌握的數據點，很難預測第四季的續約率會如何改變。如果回顧第三季度，業務進展符合計劃。但實際上，我們僅在季度的最後兩週才經歷了本地訂閱業務續訂率的下降，這與聯邦和非聯邦部門都有關。因此，我們很難將任何假設納入考慮。

And from a guidance perspective, we have never baked in positivity before we see it come to fruition. We always assume either the trend continues or gets worse, which is what we did in this case of the guidance.

從指導的角度來看，我們從來不會在看到積極因素產生結果之前就將其融入實際行動中。我們總是假設這種趨勢要么繼續下去，要么變得更糟，而我們在此次指導中也是這樣做的。

In our Q4 guidance, we assumed lower renewal rates that would take into consideration not just what we saw in Q3, but some of the impact of the announcement of end-of-life for our on-prem subscription business. So that was the thought process there when we looked at the Q4 numbers. And obviously, as we see the results at the end of the quarter will give additional color from all the analysis that we'll see and kind of look at 2026 with the lens of Q3 and Q4 and not just based on Q3 as one data point.

在我們的第四季度業績預期中，我們假設續訂率會降低，這不僅考慮到了我們在第三季度看到的情況，還考慮到了宣布終止本地訂閱業務的一些影響。這就是我們當時在分析第四季數據時的想法。顯然，正如我們所看到的，季度末的結果將為我們帶來更多分析，我們將從第三季和第四季的數據中展望 2026 年，而不僅僅是基於第三季的單一數據點。

There's no one thing. There is no one plan. But in some cases, definitely, there are account -- basic account management problems that customers use the small subset of the platform. And our reps assumed, like in other situations, they automatically will move into SaaS for the full hybrid complete. They had some positive discussions, but because of the limited usage and some builds for some types -- and just all to make sure that we are getting some control over these situations.

沒有單一的原因。沒有統一的方案。但在某些情況下，確實存在帳戶——基本的帳戶管理問題，導致客戶只能使用平台的一小部分功能。我們的銷售代表認為，就像在其他情況下一樣，他們會自動過渡到 SaaS 以實現完全混合模式。他們進行了一些積極的討論，但由於使用範圍有限，以及某些類型的建造方式——所有這些都是為了確保我們能夠控制這些情況。

Erik Suppiger. B. Riley Securities.

埃里克·蘇皮格。B. Riley 證券。

Yes, thanks for taking the question. Just -- can you remind us what your contribution from Fed was, and maybe what the contribution from the on-premise Fed business, because I think all the Fed is probably on-premise. And then you've specifically identified both your Fed on-prem and the non-Fed on-prem. Was there a difference in terms of the decline in renewal rates between those two categories, or were they both down similarly?

是的，謝謝你回答這個問題。您能否提醒我們您在聯準會的貢獻，以及您在聯準會辦公室業務的貢獻，因為我認為聯準會的所有業務可能都是辦公室業務。然後，您明確地指明了您的聯準會本地部署和非聯準會本地部署。這兩類客戶的續約率下降幅度有差嗎？還是都下降了類似的幅度？

So federal business has always been around 5% of our total ARR. And when we look from a guidance perspective going into Q3, we basically assumed a flat contribution going to the quarter, but we actually had a headwind related to the federal business that was really coming from the renewals in the federal business.

因此，聯邦業務一直占我們總年度經常性收入的 5% 左右。從第三季的業績指引來看，我們基本上假設該季度​​業績貢獻持平，但實際上我們遇到了與聯邦業務相關的不利因素，這主要來自聯邦業務的續約。

And we had several million dollars of a headwind coming from the federal business, which is kind of why we're making the adjustments to the team. But when you look at the renewals, there were actually -- the renewal rate decline was both on the federal side and also on the non-federal side, which is the reason that we're reducing our Q4 numbers. If it was only the federal, I don't think we would have adjusted the full-year guidance the way we did.

聯邦業務為我們帶來了數百萬美元的阻力，這也是我們對團隊進行調整的原因之一。但當你查看續約情況時，你會發現續約率實際上有所下降——聯邦續約率下降，非聯邦續約率也下降，這就是我們下調第四季業績數據的原因。如果只是聯邦政府的問題，我認為我們不會像現在這樣調整全年業績預期。

Shrenik Kothari, Robert W. Baird.

史萊尼克‧科塔里 (Shrenik Kothari)，羅伯特‧W‧貝爾德 (Robert W. Baird)

Yes, thanks for taking my question. So now that the conversion phase is largely complete, right, for your initial target for the mix and with the end-of-life; and in light of your prior confidence in sustaining 20% top-line growth, if we can really help kind of triangulate what the underlying growth cadence looks like going forward in your view, now with the conversion out of the picture?

是的，謝謝您回答我的問題。既然轉換階段已經基本完成，對吧？對於您最初的產品組合目標和產品生命週期結束階段也是如此；鑑於您之前對維持 20% 的營收成長充滿信心，如果我們能幫您分析一下，在您看來，在轉換階段結束後，未來潛在的成長節奏會是什麼樣子，那就太好了。

Just from that $545 million SaaS ARR core, how much of that is considered sort of early stage with significant room for up-sell, cross-sell next year and after via, of course, usage and module attach? And versus how much is already a little more mature with product adoption such as MDDR and stuff like that? I just wanted to understand how to think about underlying growth cadence into next year and ahead. Thanks.

僅從 5.45 億美元的 SaaS ARR 核心收入來看，有多少屬於早期階段，明年及以後還有很大的追加銷售、交叉銷售空間，當然，這可以透過使用情況和模組附加來實現？相較之下，像是 MDDR 之類的產品在應用方面已經成熟了一些？我只是想了解如何思考明年及以後的潛在成長節奏。謝謝。

So again, it goes back to the tale of two companies. And when you look at the SaaS business, we definitely see that business acting strong, We believe in our ability to grow 20-plus percent with our SaaS business, really, due to the momentum we're seeing with new customers and the strong NRR we see with our existing SaaS customers.

所以，一切又回到了兩家公司的故事。當我們審視 SaaS 業務時，我們確實看到該業務表現強勁。我們相信，憑藉新客戶的強勁勢頭以及現有 SaaS 客戶帶來的強勁淨經常性收入 (NRR)，我們的 SaaS 業務能夠實現 20% 以上的成長。

I think that when you look at how we plan to exit the year and we raised our expectations on the SaaS mix coming out of ARR going from 82% to 83%, I think we are kind of the -- the strength of the business is very apparent to us under the SaaS ARR. So we feel very confident in our ability to continue to grow going forward. We're addressing the issue that relates to the on-prem subscription renewals. We're taking kind of the necessary measures there. But it really is -- the on-prem subscription renewals are really masking the strength of our SaaS business.

我認為，當我們審視我們今年的計劃，並將 SaaS 業務佔 ARR 的預期從 82% 提高到 83% 時，我認為我們——SaaS ARR 業務的強勁勢頭對我們來說非常明顯。因此，我們對未來繼續發展壯大的能力充滿信心。我們正在解決與本地訂閱續訂相關的問題。我們正在採取一些必要的措施。但事實的確如此——本地部署訂閱續訂實際上掩蓋了我們 SaaS 業務的實力。

Junaid Siddiqi, Truist Securities.

朱奈德·西迪奇 (Junaid Siddiqi)，Truist 證券公司。

Great, thank you. As you expand your platform to cover adjacent use cases like SaaS and cloud infrastructure, I'm just curious. Where is the source of that incremental budget that you are taking coming from? Are you seeing like a budget reallocation from existing security categories, or is this tapping into net new spend from customers?

太好了，謝謝。隨著您的平台擴展到 SaaS 和雲端基礎設施等相鄰用例，我很好奇。你們增加的預算資金來源是什麼？您看到的是現有安全類別的預算重新分配，還是來自客戶的新增淨支出？

Well, we definitely see that customers have more budget to data security. It's important for them, and this is how we set (technical difficulty)

我們確實看到客戶在資料安全方面投入了更多預算。這對他們來說很重要，而這就是我們設定目標的方式。（技術難題）

Operator?

操作員？

Ladies and gentlemen, this now concludes our question-and-answer session and does conclude today's teleconference as well. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines and have a wonderful day.

女士們、先生們，我們的問答環節到此結束，今天的電話會議也到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以斷開線路，祝您有美好的一天。