Varonis Systems Inc (VRNS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Varonis Systems, Inc. fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

問候，歡迎參加 Varonis Systems, Inc. 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Tim Perz. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我很高興介紹您的主持人 Tim Perz。謝謝。你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today to review Varonis' fourth-quarter and full year 2024 financial results. With me on the call today are Yaki Faitelson, Chief Executive Officer; and Guy Melamed, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of Varonis. After preliminary remarks, we will open the call to a question-and-answer session.

謝謝您，接線生。午安.感謝您今天加入我們，回顧 Varonis 2024 年第四季和全年財務表現。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有執行長 Yaki Faitelson；以及 Varonis 財務長兼營運長 Guy Melamed。在初步發言之後，我們將開始問答環節。

During this call, we may make statements related to our business that would be considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws, including projections of future operating results for our first quarter and full year ending December 31, 2025. Due to a number of factors, actual results may differ materially from those set forth in such statements.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會做出與我們的業務相關的聲明，這些聲明根據聯邦證券法將被視為前瞻性聲明，包括對截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日的第一季度和全年未來經營業績的預測。由於多種因素，實際結果可能與此類聲明中所述的結果有重大差異。

These factors are set forth in the earnings press release that we issued today under the section captioned Forward-Looking Statements, and these and other important risk factors are described more fully in our reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We encourage all investors to read our SEC filings.

這些因素在我們今天發布的收益新聞稿中「前瞻性聲明」部分中進行了闡述，而這些和其他重要風險因素在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的報告中進行了更詳細的描述。我們鼓勵所有投資者閱讀我們的美國證券交易委員會文件。

These statements reflect our views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our views as of any subsequent date. Varonis expressly disclaims any obligation or undertaking to release publicly any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements made herein.

這些聲明僅反映我們截至今天的觀點，不應被視為代表我們隨後任何日期的觀點。Varonis 明確表示不承擔任何義務或承諾公開發布本文所述前瞻性陳述的任何更新或修訂。

Additionally, non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed on this conference call. A reconciliation for the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures is also available in our fourth quarter 2024 earnings press release and our investor presentation, which can be found at varonis.com in the Investor Relations section. Lastly, please note that a webcast of today's call is available on our website in the Investor Relations section.

此外，本次電話會議將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。我們 2024 年第四季收益新聞稿和投資者介紹中也提供了最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表，可在 varonis.com 的投資者關係部分找到。最後，請注意，今天電話會議的網路直播可在我們網站的「投資者關係」部分找到。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to our Chief Executive Officer, Yaki Faitelson. Yaki?

接下來，我想將電話轉給我們的執行長 Yaki Faitelson。亞基？

Thanks, Tim, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today to review our fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 results. Today, I would like to update you on the progress of our SaaS transition and to review why Varonis is best positioned to capitalize on the growing opportunity to secure the world's data.

謝謝，提姆，大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們，回顧我們的 2024 年第四季和全年業績。今天，我想向您介紹我們 SaaS 轉型的進展，並回顧為什麼 Varonis 最有能力利用日益增長的機會來保護全球數據。

We introduced Varonis SaaS to the world a little over two years ago, and we are excited by the progress that has been made in that time. During 2024, we added over $200 million of SaaS ARR and ended the year with approximately $340 million of SaaS ARR or 53% of total company ARR. This is happening so fast because our SaaS offering is a better product that allows customers to better secure their data with less effort.

兩年多前，我們向全世界推出了 Varonis SaaS，我們對這段時間的進展感到非常興奮。2024 年，我們增加了超過 2 億美元的 SaaS ARR，年底的 SaaS ARR 約為 3.4 億美元，占公司總 ARR 的 53%。這發生得如此之快，是因為我們提供的 SaaS 是一種更好的產品，可以讓客戶用更少的精力更好地保護他們的資料。

While these numbers suggest that providing a better product is easy, there has been a lot of hard work going on behind the scenes to make that happen. And I would like to take a moment to thank our team for their efforts.

雖然這些數字表明提供更好的產品很容易，但為了實現這一目標，幕後還有很多艱苦的工作要做。我想花點時間感謝我們團隊的努力。

We still have many existing customers to convert to our SaaS platforms, but it is clear that we are well on our way to becoming a SaaS company. Although we have started to realize some of the benefits of SaaS, there are so many more to realize once the transition is complete.

我們仍有許多現有客戶需要轉換到我們的 SaaS 平台，但很明顯，我們已經在成為 SaaS 公司的道路上走得很遠了。儘管我們已經開始認識到 SaaS 的一些好處，但一旦轉變完成，將會有更多的好處有待實現。

For example, once we are fully transitioned to SaaS, our customers will enjoy greater level of security with much less effort, and we expect to see better retention rates and over time in market into which we can reaccelerate our upsell motion. This is a key reason why we plan to accelerate our transition time. And now we expect to complete it by the end of 2025, a year earlier than our previous outlook and two years earlier than our initial expectations.

例如，一旦我們完全過渡到 SaaS，我們的客戶將以更少的努力享受更高級別的安全性，並且我們期望看到更好的保留率，並且隨著時間的推移，我們可以在市場中重新加速我們的追加銷售行動。這就是我們計劃加快過渡時間的關鍵原因。現在我們預計將在 2025 年底完成，比我們之前的預測提前一年，比我們最初的預期提前兩年。

Turning to our fourth quarter results, ARR grew 18% to $641.9 million. And for the first time, SaaS ARR represent the majority of our ARR base. New customer momentum was the single biggest driver of these results, and this is due to the simplicity of our SaaS platform and our MDDR offering, as well as customer interest in deploying Gen AI, which requires them to fortify their data security strategy.

回顧我們第四季的業績，ARR 成長 18%，達到 6.419 億美元。並且，SaaS ARR 首次佔據了我們 ARR 基礎的大多數。新客戶發展勢頭是這些業績的最大驅動力，這得益於我們的 SaaS 平台和 MDDR 產品的簡單性，以及客戶對部署 Gen AI 的興趣，這要求他們加強資料安全策略。

While our existing customer convergence continue in a healthy way, during the fourth quarter, this convergence are time and resource intensive. We believe our sales efficiency and ability to drive growth from our base will actually accelerate post transition once our reps are able to focus on SaaS upsell and cross-sell rather than converting self-hosted customers.

雖然我們現有的客戶融合繼續以健康的方式進行，但在第四季度，這種整合需要大量時間和資源。我們相信，一旦我們的銷售代表能夠專注於 SaaS 追加銷售和交叉銷售而不是轉化自託管客戶，我們的銷售效率和推動基礎增長的能力實際上將在轉型後加速。

In 2024, we continued to balance strong top-line growth, we've improved cash flow generation, and we generated $108.5 million of free cash flow versus $54.3 million last year. Posting the $100 million of free cash flow is an important milestone for our company, and we plan to continue to generate meaningful free cash flow going forward. Guy will review our results and initial guidance in more detail shortly.

2024 年，我們繼續保持強勁的營收成長，提高了現金流產生能力，產生了 1.085 億美元的自由現金流，而去年為 5,430 萬美元。實現 1 億美元的自由現金流對我們公司來說是一個重要的里程碑，我們計劃在未來繼續產生有意義的自由現金流。Guy 很快就會更詳細地回顧我們的結果和初步指導。

Now I would like to take a step back and discuss the growing need for data security and why we are best positioned to win in this market. Our world runs on data, and because of its importance, everyone knows that they need to secure it.

現在，我想回顧一下日益增長的資料安全需求，以及為什麼我們最有能力在這個市場上獲勝。我們的世界依靠資料運轉，由於資料的重要性，每個人都知道他們需要保護資料。

When we created Varonis SaaS, we had the benefit of more than a decade of experience securing large complex environments. We use those learnings and our considerable resources to transform Varonis into an automated data security platform based on a world-class scalable cloud architecture.

當我們創建 Varonis SaaS 時，我們受益於十多年保護大型複雜環境的經驗。我們利用這些經驗和大量資源將 Varonis 轉變為基於世界一流的可擴展雲端架構的自動化資料安全平台。

It was critical that we did it in the right way because every day, more data is created in more places, and it's become harder to secure. This means automation and scalability are not just core differentiation for Varonis, but also the only way to stay ahead of today's threat environment.

以正確的方式做到這一點至關重要，因為每天都有更多地方產生更多數據，而且保護數據變得越來越困難。這意味著自動化和可擴展性不僅是 Varonis 的核心差異化，也是在當今威脅環境中保持領先的唯一途徑。

As time passes, the need for our automated platform and the value we give to our customers grow stronger for many years, and we had to evangelize our approach, but now the market gets it. Data is where the damage happens, and stopping breaches is not only about avoiding fines; it's about keeping the lights on. And in the age of AI, securing data has never been more important.

隨著時間的推移，多年來，我們對自動化平台的需求以及我們為客戶提供的價值變得越來越強烈，我們不得不宣傳我們的方法，但現在市場已經明白了。資料是損害發生的地方，阻止違規行為不僅是為了避免罰款；這是為了讓燈一​​直亮著。在人工智慧時代，保護資料安全從未如此重要。

But data has never been more at risk. Today, bad actors don't break in, they log in. Attackers instantly become insiders and can easily collect data because the blast radius is unmanaged and everything is connected.

但數據面臨的風險從未如此之大。如今，惡意攻擊者不會闖入，而是登入。由於爆炸半徑不受管理且一切都已連接，因此攻擊者立即成為內部人員並可輕鬆收集資料。

AI makes attackers' jobs even easier and insiders much more dangerous. They just have to ask the data, and AI will compile it for them. Companies understand this and spend a lot on perimeter technologies, but breaches keep happening, which show that these technologies are important, but they are insufficient. Many organizations are also trying to address data security with manual work and points solutions, and they are failing.

人工智慧使攻擊者的工作變得更加容易，使內部人員變得更加危險。他們只要詢問數據，AI就會為他們編譯數據。公司了解這一點，並在邊界技術上投入了大量資金，但違規行為仍在不斷發生，這表明這些技術很重要，但還不夠。許多組織也嘗試透過手動工作和點解決方案來解決資料安全問題，但都失敗了。

Varonis automatically secures data with our unified platform. Our goal is to make data security as reliable and press as owning a credit card that protects you against fraud. Our cloud-native unified data security platform is a wide coverage and deep functionality to secure data at scale wherever it leads.

Varonis 透過我們統一的平台自動保護資料。我們的目標是讓資料安全像擁有一張可以保護您免遭詐騙的信用卡一樣可靠和重要。我們的雲端原生統一資料安全平台覆蓋範圍廣、功能深入，可保護大規模資料的安全，無論資料流向何處。

We automatically locate and classify sensitive data. And because we understand what an identity can access and what it should be able to access, we are able to automatically reduce the blast radius. We monitor and understand data-related behavior so we are able to detect suspicious behavior. And if a bad actor gets in or an insider emerges, we help minimize the damage.

我們自動定位和分類敏感資料。而且，由於我們了解某個身分可以存取什麼以及應該能夠存取什麼，所以我們能夠自動縮小影響半徑。我們監控並了解與數據相關的行為，因此我們能夠偵測可疑行為。如果有不法分子進入或出現內部人員，我們會幫助將損失降至最低。

Our platform has allowed us to bring our mix functionality to every enterprise data domain, from on-prem data stores to SaaS, PasS in hyperscalers like AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud. Expanding our coverage into these additional data stores has enlarged our total available market and brought us into new projects where we sometimes compete in RFPs and POCs, these point vendors that do discovery and basic posture management.

我們的平台使我們能夠將混合功能帶到每個企業資料領域，從本地資料儲存到 SaaS、AWS、Azure 和 Google Cloud 等超大規模中的 PasS。將我們的覆蓋範圍擴展到這些額外的數據存儲，擴大了我們的總可用市場，並將我們帶入了新的項目，在這些項目中，我們有時會在 RFP 和 POC 中競爭，這些點供應商負責發現和基本姿態管理。

While these vendors help us to build the market for data security, in most cases, we still do not face direct competition when it's time to actually secure large datasets wherever they are in the cloud or in the data center. So when we do the risk assessment, our differentiated value becomes clear.

雖然這些供應商幫助我們建立了資料安全市場，但在大多數情況下，在實際保護大型資料集（無論它們是在雲端還是在資料中心）時，我們仍然不會面臨直接競爭。因此，當我們進行風險評估時，我們的差異化價值就變得清晰起來。

Simply finding sensitive data does not ensure that it is secure. Once sensitive data is located, remediating over exposure at scale is not possible through manual work. Varonis is unique that we discover and classify sensitive data, automatically fix issues, and then detect and stop threats on data, which is the only way to secure data.

僅僅找到敏感資料並不能確保其安全。一旦找到敏感數據，就無法透過人工大規模補救過度暴露。Varonis 的獨特之處在於我們發現和分類敏感數據，自動修復問題，然後檢測並阻止對數據的威脅，這是保護數據的唯一方法。

Switching gears, a year ago, we introduced MDDR, which is the first managed service for monitoring and securing critical data. This offering is built on top of our SaaS platforms and leverages our unique data-centric telemetry alongside the AI and machine learning embedded into our platform to deliver automated data security.

換個角度來說，一年前，我們推出了 MDDR，這是第一個用於監控和保護關鍵資料的託管服務。該產品建立在我們的 SaaS 平台之上，利用我們獨特的以數據為中心的遙測技術以及嵌入在我們平台中的 AI 和機器學習來提供自動化資料安全。

MDDR has been the fastest adopted new product launch in the history of Varonis. We are already seeing this drive meaningful new business and existing customer conversions. And we are still just scratching the surface of this massive opportunity.

MDDR是Varonis史上採用速度最快的新產品。我們已經看到這正在推動有意義的新業務和現有客戶的轉換。而我們仍只是觸及了這個巨大機會的表面。

The proliferation of AI is also expanding our technical moat as we leverage our unique datasets to help prevent data breaches. This gets stronger as we add more coverage in automation, and the network effect grows as we add more customers to our SaaS platform.

隨著我們利用獨特的資料集來幫助防止資料洩露，人工智慧的普及也擴大了我們的技術護城河。隨著我們在自動化方面增加更多的覆蓋範圍，這種能力會變得更加強大，隨著我們為 SaaS 平台增加更多的客戶，網路效應也會不斷增強。

Customers want to deploy AI, which also bring data security conversation front and center. We saw growing impact during the fourth quarter from these Gen AI initiatives. With that, I would like to briefly discuss a couple of key customer wins from Q4.

客戶希望部署人工智慧，這也使資料安全對話成為焦點。我們看到第四季這些 Gen AI 計畫的影響力日漸增強。因此，我想簡要討論一下第四季度幾個關鍵客戶的成功案例。

New logos are the driver of our business momentum, and this quarter, a large hospital system with 10,000 employees became a customer. They were looking to deploy Copilot but knew that data security and privacy would be a big concern. And this was confirmed by a risk assessment.

新的標誌是我們業務發展勢頭的驅動力，本季度，一個擁有 10,000 名員工的大型醫院系統成為客戶。他們正在考慮部署 Copilot，但知道資料安全和隱私會是一個大問題。風險評估也證實了這一點。

As a result, they purchased Varonis SaaS for hybrid with MDDR and Copilot. In one week, they automatically locked down 43,000 exposed files and labeled 98% of their sensitive data through the power of automation in Varonis SaaS. The success empowered the CISO to recommend to the Board that the company could safely deploy Copilot throughout the organization and enable this hospital to be a leader in Gen AI adoption.

因此，他們購買了 Varonis SaaS 來與 MDDR 和 Copilot 混合使用。在一周內，他們透過 Varonis SaaS 的自動化功能自動鎖定了 43,000 個暴露的檔案並標記了 98％ 的敏感資料。這項成功使 CISO 有信心向董事會建議，公司可以在整個組織內安全地部署 Copilot，並使這家醫院成為 Gen AI 應用的領導者。

We continue to see strong demand from existing customers looking to convert to our SaaS platform. One of those was a large bank with 6,000 employees that first became a customer in 2019, originally using Varonis for visibility into their file sharing. Understanding data ownership and automating entitlement reviews over time, they have significantly expanded their deployment to include data classification, alerting on threats, automatically fixing exposures on-prem, and then doing all of these in the cloud before ultimately converting to SaaS this quarter.

我們持續看到現有客戶對於轉換到我們的 SaaS 平台的強烈需求。其中一家是一家擁有 6,000 名員工的大型銀行，該銀行於 2019 年首次成為客戶，最初使用 Varonis 來查看其文件共享。透過了解資料所有權並隨著時間的推移實現權利審查的自動化，他們已顯著擴展其部署範圍，包括資料分類、威脅警報、自動修復本地漏洞，然後在雲端中完成所有這些操作，最終在本季度轉換為 SaaS。

Upon conversion, they purchased Varonis SaaS hybrid with MDDR and Copilot and Salesforce. This will allow them to safely deploy Copilot in time and fix overexposed sensitive data in Salesforce.

轉換後，他們購買了帶有 MDDR、Copilot 和 Salesforce 的 Varonis SaaS 混合體。這將使他們能夠及時安全地部署 Copilot 並修復 Salesforce 中過度暴露的敏感資料。

In summary, we are excited by the approximately 50% increase in ARR from new customers, which was driven by the simplicity of SaaS and MDDR as well as generative AI, raising awareness to our solution. We look forward to continuing our momentum and completing our SaaS transition in 2025, which will unlock many more benefits as we capture our massive opportunity.

總而言之，我們對新客戶的 ARR 增加約 50% 感到興奮，這得益於 SaaS 和 MDDR 的簡單性以及生成性 AI，提高了對我們解決方案的認識。我們期待繼續保持這一勢頭，並在 2025 年完成我們的 SaaS 轉型，這將在我們抓住巨大機會的同時帶來更多好處。

With that, let me turn the call over to Guy. Guy?

說完這些，讓我把電話轉給蓋伊。蓋伊？

Thanks, Yaki. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. We are pleased with our fourth-quarter results, which reflect the story of two companies. One, our momentum with new SaaS customers, driven by the simplicity of the platform and Copilot, which for the first time, saw a meaningful contribution from AI-related purchases.

謝謝，Yaki。大家下午好。感謝您今天加入我們。我們對第四季度的業績感到滿意，這反映了兩家公司的故事。首先，我們在新 SaaS 客戶方面的發展勢頭強勁，這得益於平台和 Copilot 的簡單性，這是首次看到來自 AI 相關購買的有意義的貢獻。

And two, our existing self-hosted customers, which despite seeing very healthy conversion activity, is currently diluting our growth rate, which I will expand on shortly. As a result of the strong new customer momentum and sizable existing customer conversions, we ended Q4 with 53% of total company ARR coming from SaaS.

其次，儘管我們現有的自託管客戶轉換活動非常健康，但目前正在降低我們的成長率，我稍後將對此進行詳細說明。由於新客戶成長勢頭強勁以及現有客戶轉換率大幅提升，我們在第四季度結束時，該公司總 ARR 的 53% 來自 SaaS。

Historically, a majority of our ARR growth was driven by expansion within our base. But with the move to SaaS, our new business has been exceptionally strong and is the number one driving force behind the momentum in our results. This is happening because of the simplicity of SaaS and MDDR, as well as Gen AI raising awareness for the need to secure your data.

從歷史上看，我們的 ARR 成長大部分是由基礎內部的擴張所推動的。但隨著向 SaaS 的轉變，我們的新業務變得異常強勁，成為我們業績成長的主要推動力。這是因為 SaaS 和 MDDR 的簡單性，以及 Gen AI 提高了人們對資料安全必要性的認識。

SaaS is also increasing the size of and our ability to penetrate our TAM as we are leveraging our platform to expand into new data stores. We feel very good that the success we have seen selling to new customers will continue going forward.

隨著我們利用我們的平台擴展到新的資料存儲，SaaS 也在擴大我們的 TAM 規模和滲透能力。我們非常高興地看到，我們向新客戶銷售產品所取得的成功將會持續延續。

Conversions of self-hosted customers were also very strong because customers see the value of SaaS and MDDR, which help customers achieve their goal with very little effort as we do almost all of the work for them. At the same time, these conversions require a lot of effort due to legal and procurement work, and SaaS security checklist requires to get customers to convert to SaaS from self-hosting.

自託管客戶的轉換也非常強勁，因為客戶看到了 SaaS 和 MDDR 的價值，它們可以幫助客戶以很少的努力實現他們的目標，因為我們為他們完成了幾乎所有的工作。同時，由於法律和採購工作，這些轉換需要付出很多努力，而 SaaS 安全檢查表要求讓客戶從自架轉換到 SaaS。

Despite the healthy uplift we recognize upon conversion, the amount of time spent on this part of the sales cycle is greater than a traditional upsell or cross-sell. In addition, our growth for many years was driven by upsells. And until we convert customers to SaaS, the upsell motion is on hold. This means that conversions are dilutive to sales efficiency during the transition and serve as a headwind to our ARR growth and expansion motion when compared to historical levels.

儘管我們在轉換過程中看到了健康的提升，但在銷售週期的這一部分花費的時間比傳統的追加銷售或交叉銷售要多。此外，多年來我們的成長是由追加銷售推動的。並且，在我們將客戶轉向 SaaS 之前，追加銷售活動將暫停。這意味著，與歷史水準相比，轉換率在過渡期間會降低銷售效率，並成為我們 ARR 成長和擴張動力的阻力。

In the fourth quarter, we had a huge volume of conversions, and these took a lot of time and effort for our sales team. And yet, we still had strong results despite this temporary productivity headwind. Our view is that when almost all of our customers are converted, we expect that our teams will become more productive primarily due to increased customer satisfaction with the SaaS platform and also a simpler selling process once a customer is on a SaaS contract.

在第四季度，我們進行了大量的轉換，這花費了我們的銷售團隊大量的時間和精力。然而，儘管生產力暫時受到阻礙，我們仍然取得了強勁的業績。我們的觀點是，當幾乎所有客戶都轉換後，我們預計我們的團隊將變得更有效率，這主要歸功於客戶對 SaaS 平台的滿意度提高，而且一旦客戶簽訂了 SaaS 合同，銷售流程也會更簡單。

Because of this, we're making a strategic decision to accelerate Phase 2 and now expect 78% or approximately $580 million of our total ARR will come from SaaS by year-end, completing the transition two years earlier than our initial target and one year earlier than what we said last year. The strength of our business and the inherent leverage in our model have allowed us to show significant margin improvement.

正因為如此，我們做出了加速第二階段的戰略決策，現在預計到年底，我們總 ARR 的 78% 或約 5.8 億美元將來自 SaaS，比我們最初的目標提前兩年完成轉型，比我們去年所說的提前一年。我們的業務實力和模型固有的槓桿作用使我們的利潤率顯著提高。

As a reminder, we set a long-term target of 20% ARR contribution margins by 2027 at our Investor Day in March 2023 and ended 2024 at 16.6%, so we are well ahead of that plan. The leverage of our model allows us to continue to show margin improvement while making strategic investments to reaccelerate our top-line growth back to 20%-plus and capture the larger opportunity that we see developing. We expect these investments, coupled with sustained new logo momentum, will also enable us to continue to grow ARR at healthy levels this year despite the conversion taking more time and effort to do.

提醒一下，我們在 2023 年 3 月的投資者日設定了到 2027 年實現 20% ARR 貢獻利潤率的長期目標，並在 2024 年底實現了 16.6% 的利潤率，因此我們遠遠領先於該計劃。我們模型的槓桿作用使我們能夠繼續顯示利潤率的提高，同時進行策略性投資以將我們的營收成長重新加速到20％以上並抓住我們看到的更大的發展機會。我們預計，這些投資加上持續的新標誌勢頭也將使我們今年的 ARR 繼續保持健康的成長水平，儘管轉換需要更多的時間和精力。

In addition, we believe that accelerating the transition will better position us to accelerate our growth post transition and will provide us with several benefits over time, including: one, better sales productivity; two, better ability to upsell these SaaS customers; and three, further increases to our already healthy gross retention due to MDDR and the automation of our SaaS platform, allowing our customers to be better protected with very little effort on their part.

此外，我們相信加速轉型將使我們更能加速轉型後的成長，並將隨著時間的推移為我們帶來多種好處，包括：一、提高銷售效率；二、提高向這些 SaaS 客戶追加銷售的能力；第三，由於 MDDR 和 SaaS 平台的自動化，我們本來就健康的總留存率進一步提高，讓我們的客戶能夠以很少的努力得到更好的保護。

To summarize, we're thrilled with the momentum of the new business, and we're accelerating Phase 2 of our transition from a position of strength. We now expect to complete the SaaS transition a full year earlier than what we told you a year ago. And we expect our business to remain strong in 2025 with continued commitment to improved leverage, although at a slightly slower pace than last year as we see a much greater opportunity we want to take advantage of.

總而言之，我們對新業務的發展勢頭感到非常興奮，我們正在從實力地位加速轉型的第二階段。我們現在預計完成 SaaS 轉型將比一年前告訴我們的時間提早整整一年。我們預計，在繼續致力於提高槓桿率的情況下，我們的業務將在 2025 年保持強勁，儘管速度比去年略慢，因為我們看到了更大的機會，我們想要利用它。

In the fourth quarter, ARR was $641.9 million, increasing 18% year over year. And this year, we generated $108.5 million of free cash flow, up from $54.3 million last year. These metrics illustrate the ability to drive top-line growth, margin leverage, and cash flow generation while transitioning to SaaS.

第四季度，ARR為6.419億美元，年增18%。今年，我們產生了 1.085 億美元的自由現金流，高於去年的 5,430 萬美元。這些指標說明了在向 SaaS 轉型的同時推動營業額成長、利潤槓桿和現金流產生的能力。

We ended the year with 5,600 subscription customers, which grew 13% year over year. ARR per new customer grew approximately 20% year over year as we are successfully moving upmarket to larger organizations and also selling more of the platform in the initial deal. Our dollar-based net retention rate for subscription customers was 105% at the end of 2024, adjusted for FX, which reflects steady gross retention and more limited upsell and cross-sell activity as reps prioritize converting self-hosted customers to SaaS.

截至年底，我們擁有 5,600 名訂閱客戶，較去年同期成長 13%。由於我們成功地向更大的組織邁進並在初始交易中銷售更多的平台，每個新客戶的 ARR 年比增長約 20%。截至 2024 年底，我們訂閱客戶的美元淨留存率為 105%（已根據外匯進行調整），這反映了穩定的總留存率以及更有限的追加銷售和交叉銷售活動，因為銷售代表優先將自託管客戶轉化為 SaaS。

In the fourth quarter, total revenues were $158.5 million, up 3% year over year. During the quarter, as compared to the same quarter last year, we had approximately an 18% headwind to our year-over-year revenue growth rate as a result of having increased SaaS sales in our booking mix, which are recognized ratably versus the upfront recognition of our on-prem subscription products.

第四季總營收為1.585億美元，年增3%。本季度，與去年同期相比，我們的同比收入增長率下降了約 18%，原因是我們的預訂組合中 SaaS 銷售額增加，與我們的內部訂閱產品的前期確認相比，SaaS 銷售額的確認是按比例增加的。

SaaS revenues were $72.2 million. Term license subscription revenues were $66.8 million, and maintenance and services revenues were $19.5 million, as our renewal rates were again over 90%.

SaaS收入為7,220萬美元。定期許可訂閱收入為 6,680 萬美元，維護和服務收入為 1,950 萬美元，因為我們的續訂率再次超過 90%。

Moving down the income statement, I'll be discussing non-GAAP results going forward. Gross profit for the fourth quarter was $133.8 million, representing a gross margin of 84.4% compared to 88.5% in the fourth quarter of 2023 despite significant revenue headwinds, which were largely offset by SaaS platform efficiency.

在損益表中，我將討論非 GAAP 結果。第四季毛利為 1.338 億美元，毛利率為 84.4%，而 2023 年第四季為 88.5%，儘管收入面臨重大阻力，但 SaaS 平台效率在很大程度上抵消了這一阻力。

Operating expenses in the fourth quarter totaled $118.4 million. As a result, fourth-quarter operating income was $15.3 million or an operating margin of 9.7%. This compares to an operating income of $27.2 million or an operating margin of 17.7% in the same period last year.

第四季營運費用總計1.184億美元。因此，第四季營業收入為 1,530 萬美元，營業利潤率為 9.7%。相較之下，去年同期的營業收入為 2,720 萬美元，營業利益率為 17.7%。

During the quarter, as compared to the same quarter last year, we had approximately a 13% headwind to our operating margin as a result of having increased SaaS sales in our booking mix, which are recognized fully ratable versus the upfront recognition of our on-prem subscription products.

本季度，與去年同期相比，我們的營業利潤率下降了約 13%，原因是我們的預訂組合中 SaaS 銷售額增加，與我們的內部訂閱產品的預付確認相比，這些 SaaS 銷售額是完全可評估的。

Fourth-quarter ARR contribution margin was 16.6%, up from 13.4% last year. The significant leverage improvement reflects our ability to drive strong incremental margins while growing ARR and transitioning to SaaS.

第四季ARR貢獻利潤率為16.6%，高於去年的13.4%。槓桿率的大幅提升反映了我們在增加 ARR 和向 SaaS 轉型的同時推動強勁的增量利潤率的能力。

During the quarter, we had financial income of approximately $11.6 million, driven primarily by interest income on our cash, deposits, and investments in marketable securities. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $23.9 million or $0.18 per diluted share compared to net income of $34.3 million or net income of $0.27 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2023. This is based on 135.1 million and 126.1 million diluted shares outstanding for Q4 2024 and Q4 2023, respectively.

本季度，我們的財務收入約為 1,160 萬美元，主要來自現金、存款和有價證券投資的利息收入。2024 年第四季淨收入為 2,390 萬美元，即每股攤薄收入 0.18 美元，而 2023 年第四季淨收入為 3,430 萬美元，即每股攤薄收入 0.27 美元。這是基於 2024 年第四季和 2023 年第四季的 1.351 億股和 1.261 億股稀釋流通股。

As of December 31, 2024, we had $1.2 billion in cash, cash equivalents, short-term deposits, and marketable securities. For the 12 months ended December 31, 2024, we generated $115.2 million of cash from operations compared to $59.4 million generated in the same period last year. And CapEx was $6.7 million compared to $5.1 million last year.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，我們擁有 12 億美元現金、現金等價物、短期存款和有價證券。截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 12 個月，我們的營運活動現金流為 1.152 億美元，而去年同期為 5,940 萬美元。資本支出為 670 萬美元，而去年同期為 510 萬美元。

I will now briefly recap our full year 2024 results. Total revenues grew 10% to $551 million. In 2024, as compared to 2023, we had approximately a 10% headwind to our year-over-year revenue growth rate as a result of having increased SaaS sales in our booking mix, which are recognized ratably versus the upfront recognition of our on-prem subscription products.

現在我將簡要回顧我們 2024 年全年業績。總營收成長 10% 至 5.51 億美元。與 2023 年相比，2024 年我們的年比收入成長率下降了約 10%，這是由於我們的預訂組合中 SaaS 銷售額增加，與我們的內部訂閱產品的前期確認相比，SaaS 銷售額的確認是按比例增加的。

Our full-year operating margin was 2.9% compared to 5.8% for 2023. In 2024, as compared to 2023, we had approximately an 8% headwind to our operating margin as a result of having increased SaaS sales in our booking mix, which are recognized fully ratable versus the upfront recognition of our on-prem subscription products.

我們的全年營業利益率為 2.9%，而 2023 年為 5.8%。2024 年，與 2023 年相比，我們的營業利潤率下降了約 8%，原因是我們的預訂組合中 SaaS 銷售額增加，與我們的內部訂閱產品的預付確認相比，這些銷售額是完全可評估的。

Turning now to our initial 2025 guidance, as a reminder, our initial ARR guidance reflects flat net new ARR as a starting point for the year, similar to the approach that we used last year. For the first quarter of 2025, we expect total revenues of $130 million to $135 million, representing growth of 14% to 18%; non-GAAP operating loss of negative $14 million to negative $11 million; and non-GAAP net loss per basic and diluted share in the range of negative $0.06 to negative $0.04. This assumes 113.6 million basic and diluted shares outstanding.

現在回顧我們 2025 年的初步指引，提醒一下，我們的初步 ARR 指引反映了平穩的淨新 ARR 作為今年的起點，這與我們去年使用的方法類似。2025年第一季，我們預計總營收為1.3億美元至1.35億美元，成長14%至18%；非公認會計準則營業虧損為負 1,400 萬美元至負 1,100 萬美元；非公認會計準則每股基本和攤薄淨虧損在負 0.06 美元至負 0.04 美元之間。假設基本和稀釋流通股數為 1.136 億股。

For the full year 2025, we expect ARR of $737 million to $745 million, representing growth of 15% to 16%; free cash flow of $120 million to $125 million; total revenues of $610 million to $625 million, representing growth of 11% to 13%; non-GAAP operating income of $0.5 million to $10.5 million; non-GAAP net income per diluted share in the range of $0.13 to $0.17. This assumes 137.5 million diluted shares outstanding.

對於 2025 年全年，我們預計 ARR 為 7.37 億美元至 7.45 億美元，成長率為 15% 至 16%； 1.2 億美元至 1.25 億美元的自由現金流；總營收為 6.1 億美元至 6.25 億美元，成長 11% 至 13%；非公認會計準則營業收入為 50 萬美元至 1,050 萬美元；非公認會計準則每股攤薄淨利潤在 0.13 美元至 0.17 美元之間。假設已流通稀釋股份 1.375 億股。

In summary, we are excited to finish 2024 with the majority of our ARR coming from SaaS for the first time and are encouraged by the step function change in the new customer momentum we are seeing. We look forward to completing our SaaS transition in 2025, which we believe will better position the company to accelerate growth and show continued free cash flow improvement on our way to our $1 billion ARR target.

總而言之，我們很高興在 2024 年結束時，我們的大部分 ARR 首次來自 SaaS，而我們看到的新客戶動能的階梯變化讓我們感到鼓舞。我們期待在 2025 年完成 SaaS 轉型，我們相信這將使公司處於更有利的位置，以加速成長並在實現 10 億美元 ARR 目標的過程中持續改善自由現金流。

With that, we would be happy to take questions. Operator?

我們很樂意回答您的提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Hedberg, RBC Capital Markets.

（操作員指示） Matthew Hedberg，RBC 資本市場。

This is Mike Richards on for Matt. Thanks for taking the questions, and congrats on the results and the accelerated timeline here. Maybe if we're sitting here a year from now, and we're talking about upside to that flat net new ARR growth, could you talk about maybe where there might be some conservative assumptions around either Copilot uptake or conversions of the base?

這是麥克理查茲 (Mike Richards)，取代馬特 (Matt)。感謝您回答這些問題，並祝賀這裡取得的成果和加快的時間表。也許，如果我們坐在這裡，一年後，我們正在談論平穩的淨新 ARR 增長的上行空間，你能否談談在 Copilot 的吸收或基礎轉換方面可能存在一些保守的假設？

And how are you accelerating that Phase 2? Is that going to be through a care and stake approach? Or are we looking at sales incentives? Just any detail on that would be great.

您如何加速第二階段的進程？這是否是透過關懷和利害關係的方法來實現的？或者我們正在考慮銷售激勵？只要有關於這方面的詳細資訊就很好了。

Thanks for the question. I think that primarily, the acceleration within the base is that customers want to avoid a data breach, make sure that they don't have compliance fines and protect everything effortlessly. And this is what we are doing.

謝謝你的提問。我認為，最主要的是，基礎內的加速是客戶希望避免資料洩露，確保他們不會受到合規罰款並毫不費力地保護一切。這正是我們正在做的事情。

So just natural expansion in the way that we have this deep functionality, a lot of automation in our platform, just covering a lot of data stores. Just many times, it's hard for customers to get everything right off the bat. But with time, they understand that they need everything, and we just provide automation and AI just make the data security problem inevitable.

因此，我們平台的深度功能和自動化程度很高，可以自然擴展，涵蓋大量資料儲存。很多時候，客戶很難立即得到所有資訊。但隨著時間的推移，他們明白他們需要一切，而我們只是提供自動化和人工智慧，這使得資料安全問題不可避免。

You see what's going on a daily basis. And anything that Copilot like them, but you see many Copilots, and everybody work with these agents that primarily what we do by design, take all the data that they can get to these robots will not be able to get only to the data that they need to get, it will end up in a disaster. So we just see the demand in this -- all front.

你可以看見每天發生的事。以及 Copilot 喜歡的任何東西，但你會看到許多 Copilot，每個人都與這些代理一起工作，我們主要按照設計做的是，獲取他們可以獲得的所有數據，這些機器人將無法僅獲取他們需要的數據，最終將導致災難。因此，我們看到了這方面的需求。

In terms of the conversions, we saw a lot of success in 2024 converting our existing customers to SaaS. And during the process of doing so, we learned a lot.

在轉換方面，我們在 2024 年將現有客戶轉換為 SaaS 方面取得了巨大成功。在這個過程中，我們學到了很多。

So when we look at those learnings, we're making some strategic investments in sales and customer success, support and legal to support the transition. And we really plan to start our renewal process even earlier this year to allow for more time to process the additional paperwork associated with moving to SaaS.

因此，當我們回顧這些經驗時，我們會在銷售和客戶成功、支援和法律方面進行一些策略性投資，以支持轉型。我們確實計劃今年早些時候開始我們的續約流程，以便有更多時間來處理與轉向 SaaS 相關的額外文書工作。

So overall, we feel very good about the opportunity to accelerate our SaaS transition and enable our company to realize the benefit of SaaS a year earlier than our previous expectations and two years earlier than our initial plan.

因此總體而言，我們對加速 SaaS 轉型的機會感到非常高興，這使我們公司能夠比之前的預期提前一年、比最初的計劃提前兩年實現 SaaS 的收益。

Hamza Fodderwala, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Hamza Fodderwala。

I'm a little confused by your earlier comments on the renewal process. Are you talking about pulling forward renewal deals, so that way, you can get more conversion to SaaS from the existing customer base? And then just more on a high level, it seems like you're going to be down with the SaaS transition, spend this year are largely complete. That's two years ahead of your initial plan.

對於您之前對更新過程的評論我有點困惑。您是在說提前續約，這樣一來，現有客戶群中的更多客戶就能夠轉向 SaaS 嗎？從更高層次來看，似乎你們將要進行 SaaS 轉型，今年的支出已基本完成。這比你最初的計畫提早了兩年。

But as we think about the durability of this mid-teens growth, right, once you surpass this transition broadly, how do we get confidence in the ability to sustain that? Is it going to come from more momentum on the AI front? Is there sort of another product cycle that you're quite confident about? Because I think that's really one of the key areas investors are focused on.

但是，當我們思考這種青少年成長階段的持久力時，對吧，一旦你廣泛地跨越了這種轉變，我們如何對維持這種轉變的能力充滿信心？它是否會源自人工智慧方面的更多動力？是否存在另一種您十分有信心的產品週期？因為我認為這確實是投資人關注的重點領域之一。

So first of all, in terms of the renewals, we're talking about the actual renewals that expire within the year. We want to make sure that we're ahead of the game. And we're talking to customers about the benefits of SaaS. It's a no-brainer for them to move. But sometimes, there's additional paperwork that is part of the process. And obviously, when you move from on-prem to SaaS, it's a different checklist from a security perspective.

首先，就續約而言，我們談論的是一年內到期的實際續約。我們希望確保我們處於領先地位。我們正在與客戶討論 SaaS 的好處。對他們來說搬家是理所當然的事。但有時，流程中還需要一些額外的文書工作。顯然，當您從本地轉移到 SaaS 時，從安全角度來看，這是一個不同的清單。

So there's a lot of documentation. It's not a technological challenge. It's more of a documentational challenge that we want to be ahead of. And that's why we want to start the conversation with customers that are about to renew earlier than what we did last year. So that kind of takes care of that component.

因此有大量的文獻。這不是一個技術挑戰。這更像是一個文獻方面的挑戰，我們想領先解決它。這就是為什麼我們希望比去年更早與即將續約的客戶開始對話。這樣就可以處理該組件了。

When we look at kind of the growth within 2024, the growth of new customers was outstanding. We're really pleased with the ACV, new customer growth growing at 50%. And the actual conversions and kind of the lack of upsell because none of our reps are really dealing with the upsell opportunity. When you're an on-prem subscription customer, you want to make sure that you move them first to SaaS, and only then, you'll start talking to them about additional platforms to sell.

當我們展望 2024 年的成長時，新客戶的成長非常突出。我們對 ACV 感到非常滿意，新客戶成長率達到了 50%。而實際轉換和追加銷售的缺乏，是因為我們的銷售代表都沒有真正抓住追加銷售的機會。如果您是當地訂閱客戶，您要確保首先將他們轉移到 SaaS，然後才能開始與他們談論要銷售的其他平台。

So there's a lot of goodness that can happen once we move through and become a fully SaaS company. And that's what we're planning on doing in 2025.

所以，一旦我們轉型成為一家完全的 SaaS 公司，就會有很多好事發生。這就是我們計劃在 2025 年實現的目標。

It's important to understand that the discrepancy in value between the self-hosted and the SaaS is drastic. You're talking about 10% of the effort for the customer and really, what we call 10x more value in terms of just the speed that you get and the way that you are protected.

重要的是要理解自託管和 SaaS 之間的價值差異是巨大的。您說的是為客戶付出 10% 的努力，而實際上，就您獲得的速度和受到的保護方式而言，我們稱之為 10 倍的價值。

When you're talking about a customer in SaaS that -- we protect the data in the cloud and on-prem, all the data repositories, proxy DNS or experts backed by AI, look at it 24/7, we label and classify everything automatically, reduce the blast radius, look at the intent of these Copilots. It's just like second to none.

當您談論 SaaS 客戶時——我們保護雲端和本地的資料、所有資料儲存庫、代理 DNS 或由 AI 支援的專家，全天候查看它，我們自動標記和分類所有內容，減少爆炸半徑，查看這些副駕駛員的意圖。這簡直是無與倫比的。

And once we have all the customers there because I think where the world is going, you'll have more and more data repository, data breaches and Snowflake, everything that you have on IS. And what you want to do eventually is to avoid the data breaches, to have this operated value proposition that can make sure that you understand any abnormal behavior, you understand any identity, human and nonhuman, how they are accessing data.

一旦我們擁有了所有客戶，因為我認為世界正在不斷發展變化，您將擁有越來越多的資料儲存庫、資料外洩和 Snowflake，以及 IS 上擁有的一切。你最終想要避免資料洩露，擁有這個可操作的價值主張，可以確保你了解任何異常行為，了解任何身份，無論是人類還是非人類，以及他們如何存取資料。

There is just so much to do in the data space. And our ability on this very unique cloud architecture that we built to innovate very fast works very well. And the other thing that works extremely well for us, it's a massive problem of scale, and we build this architecture that it can scale.

資料空間裡有太多事情要做。我們所建構的這種獨特的雲端架構的快速創新能力非常出色。另一件對我們來說非常有效的事情是，這是一個巨大的規模問題，我們建立了這個可擴展的架構。

So we really believe that everything that we have in terms of innovation is extremely relevant for our customers and believe that it's what we call high probability innovation that we can innovate if it can come to the customer and organically stemming on what they bought just to expand to more and more.

因此，我們確實相信，我們在創新方面所做的一切都與我們的客戶極為相關，並且相信這就是我們所說的高概率創新，只要創新能夠來到客戶身邊，並且能夠有機地源於他們所購買的產品，然後擴展到越來越多的領域，我們就可以進行創新。

Saket Kalia, Barclays.

Saket Kalia，巴克萊銀行。

Okay. Great. Guy, maybe for you just dovetailing off that last kind of topic. It's interesting to hear the team sort of bring up the idea of getting back to 20%-plus ARR growth someday. Can you just maybe unpack that a little bit in terms of what needs to happen to accomplish that?

好的。偉大的。蓋伊，也許對你來說這只是與最後一種話題相吻合。有趣的是，聽到團隊提出有朝一日恢復 20% 以上的 ARR 成長的想法。您能否稍微解釋一下需要採取哪些措施才能實現這一目標？

Maybe how much of that is coming from conversions versus new, obviously, a very new -- a very successful new logo component this year, maybe there's new products like MDDR. Any additional color on that goal would be super helpful.

也許其中有多少來自於轉換，而不是新的，顯然，一個非常新的——今年一個非常成功的新標誌組件，也許還有像 MDDR 這樣的新產品。對於這一目標的任何附加資訊都會非常有幫助。

Absolutely, Saket. When you look at kind of our discussion about going back to the 20%-plus and if you look at the behavior and the performance in 2024 -- and we talked about it in the prepared remarks, you really see kind of a tale of two companies.

當然，Saket。當您看到我們關於回到 20% 以上的討論，並且如果您查看 2024 年的行為和表現 - 我們在準備好的評論中談到了這一點，您真的會看到兩個公司的故事。

You see how the new business is performing. You see the increase in ASPs. You see the fact that new business grew 50% in ACV. All of that is trending very well. We're very pleased with that type of performance.

您可以看到新業務的表現如何。您會看到 ASP 有所增加。您會發現新業務的 ACV 成長了 50%。所有這些都呈現出良好的趨勢。我們對這種表現非常滿意。

When you look at the NRR number, the NRR came in at 105%, and we believe that should improve post transition. So really, when you look at kind of the behavior of where we are, we kind of put ourselves to try and move as quickly as we can in 2025, and that's why we're kind of speeding up the transition. And we believe that as we complete the transition, we're better set up not only to provide value to our customers, but also to go to those customers once we show them the value and sell them additional licenses, which we believe can increase the NRR.

當您查看 NRR 數字時，您會發現 NRR 達到了 105%，我們相信過渡後情況會有所改善。所以實際上，當你觀察我們現在的行為時，我們會盡力在 2025 年盡快採取行動，這就是我們加快轉型的原因。我們相信，隨著我們完成轉型，我們不僅可以更好地為客戶提供價值，而且可以在向這些客戶展示價值並向他們出售額外許可證後更好地與他們聯繫，我們相信這可以提高 NRR。

And with the simplicity of the MDDR and the fact that Copilot, there's a lot of tailwinds that are working that we expect them to continue and be durable, and that kind of gets us to where we expect to be as a company, growing 20%-plus.

由於 MDDR 的簡單性以及 Copilot 的存在，我們期待許多有利因素持續且持久，讓我們的公司達到預期的成長 20% 以上。

But it's very simple. If you send it from a perspective of the anatomy of a breach, which can happen on your salesforce.com or in 365, on your file shares, on data bricks, on Snowflake, on the databases. And what happened with our SaaS tactic that we completely reduce friction.

但它非常簡單。如果您從違規行為的剖析角度發送它，這可能發生在您的 salesforce.com 或 365 上、在您的文件共享上、在資料塊上、在 Snowflake 上、在資料庫中。我們的 SaaS 策略徹底減少了摩擦。

It's almost at the only thing that the customer needs to do is to buy, and we will do everything for them. And the AI is working for us on so many levels. One level is you are protecting AI, permissions first and abnormal behavior and then intent, but this is one thing that is super critical.

客戶幾乎唯一需要做的事情就是購買，我們會為他們做一切。人工智慧在許多層面上為我們服務。一個層面是保護人工智慧，首先是權限，然後是異常行為，然後是意圖，但這是非常關鍵的一件事。

But the other thing that is happening is that what we are doing with the MDDR and the robot is just enhancing AI that our analysts and people can be so much more productive. So just getting to a place that there is just no reason to say no.

但正在發生的另一件事是，我們利用 MDDR 和機器人所做的只是增強人工智慧，使我們的分析師和員工能夠提高工作效率。所以只要到達一個地方，就沒有理由說不。

We can do everything for the customer, just super-fast deployment and from day one, which is what we're doing is automatically locking the data, monitoring to make sure nothing that is happening to it without stopping any business process. And this is a very, very, very strong value proposition.

我們可以為客戶做一切事情，包括超快速部署，從第一天起，我們所做的就是自動鎖定數據，進行監控以確保不會發生任何事情，而不會停止任何業務流程。這是一個非常非常強大的價值主張。

Brian Essex, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的布萊恩‧艾塞克斯 (Brian Essex)。

Great to see the reacceleration of customer growth here. I guess on that, either Guy or Yaki, I think we've previously talked about Phase 1 versus Phase 2, and Phase 2 being kind of the stick phase where you push customers or incentivize them a little more aggressively to convert.

很高興看到這裡客戶成長的再次加速。我想，無論是 Guy 還是 Yaki，我們都曾討論過第 1 階段與第 2 階段，第 2 階段是一種堅持階段，您會更積極地推動客戶或激勵他們進行轉變。

Could you help us understand as you're pursuing more aggressive incentives to bring customers over to the SaaS platform, how should we get comfortable or how do investors get comfortable that you won't see accelerated attrition from the platform? And what are those conversations like?

您能否幫助我們理解，當您尋求更積極的激勵措施來吸引客戶到 SaaS 平台時，我們應該如何感到安心，或者投資者應該如何感到安心，以免看到平台加速流失？這些對話是什麼樣的？

I think you talked about learnings from what you've seen over the past year or so. But how can we kind of maybe get some a little bit of insight from those learnings to get us comfortable for durability of the customer base on your platform?

我想您談論的是從過去一年左右所見所聞中獲得的經驗教訓。但是，我們如何從這些學習中獲得一些見解，讓我們對平台上客戶群的持久性感到滿意呢？

So we definitely took a lot of the learnings from our previous transition. And I can tell you that one of the things that we have put at the forefront of everything we do is the benefit for the customer and how -- what is better for them.

因此，我們確實從先前的轉型中吸收了許多經驗。我可以告訴你們，我們在做每件事時都把客戶利益放在第一位，並努力為客戶提供最有利的服務。

And one of the things that we're seeing is that the SaaS product is by far a better product for them, gives them better protection. And the MDDR offering is not there with the on-prem subscription. It's only there with the SaaS offering, and it allows us to do a lot of the work for them and make sure that our -- our platform is the one that's provided in an automated way, a lot of those benefits.

我們看到的一件事是，SaaS 產品對他們來說是迄今為止更好的產品，可以為他們提供更好的保護。且 MDDR 產品不包含在本地訂閱中。它只透過 SaaS 產品提供，它使我們能夠為他們完成許多工作，並確保我們的平台是以自動化方式提供的，並且具有許多好處。

So when we think about kind of the move, we want to make sure that we do it in the right way. And with that customer and kind of the way we're thinking about it, we've also -- for 2025, made sure that from a commission perspective, we're incentivizing our sales team on the conversions without neglecting new business. So the new business is at the forefront of everything, but we're absolutely making sure that it's in everyone's best interest, and it's a win-win to make sure that they -- we complete the transition in 2025.

因此，當我們考慮採取何種措施時，我們要確保以正確的方式進行。對於這樣的客戶以及我們對此的思考，我們也確保從佣金的角度考慮，在 2025 年，我們將激勵銷售團隊進行轉化，同時不會忽視新業務。因此，新業務處於一切的最前沿，但我們絕對要確保它符合每個人的最佳利益，並確保我們在 2025 年完成過渡是一個雙贏的局面。

It was a very hard undertaking to build this very robust scalable architecture because data is a massive problem at scale, as you know. But then what happened now, the innovation is just moving so fast for us and paying massive dividends for customers.

如您所知，建立這種非常強大的可擴展架構是一項非常艱鉅的任務，因為資料在規模上是一個巨大的問題。但現在發生的情況是，創新對我們來說發展如此之快，並為客戶帶來了巨大的紅利。

So you have all these new features and with this new world of AI. It's almost the data security problem became robots against robots, and it just makes sense for our customers to move with all the automation. Human money cannot solve this problem, and we just have everything in our cards to make sure that most probably, customers will not have just a data breach and protect them around the clock.

因此，您擁有所有這些新功能以及這個全新的 AI 世界。資料安全問題幾乎變成了機器人對抗機器人的問題，對我們的客戶來說，採用所有自動化手段是明智之舉。人力金錢無法解決這個問題，我們只能盡一切努力確保客戶的資料不會洩露，並全天候保護他們。

That's helpful. I mean, have you seen resistance from customers? Or is it a lack of resistance that maybe gives you confidence that you can maybe go more aggressively about converting them to the SaaS platform and MDDR?

這很有幫助。我的意思是，你有沒有看過顧客的抵制？或者是缺乏阻力才可能給你信心，讓你可以更積極地將它們轉換為 SaaS 平台和 MDDR？

As you can see, it moved much faster than we thought. And the MDDR is such a strong offering and all the remediation automation that we have in the cloud and value is everything customers get value frictionless way, then you can expand. And you see all these massive data stores and almost every big breach is a data breach. This is what organization wants to avoid.

如你所見，它的移動速度比我們想像的要快得多。MDDR 是一項非常強大的產品，我們在雲端擁有的所有修復自動化功能和價值都讓客戶能夠以無摩擦的方式獲得價值，然後您就可以擴展。你會看到所有這些海量的資料存儲，幾乎每一次重大洩漏都是資料外洩。這正是組織想要避免的。

You go to a CISO today, we'll tell you, you want to make sure you don't have a data breach, to make sure I don't have compliance time, and I want to make sure of doing this in an effortless way with a relatively lean team. And this is what we are doing for them.

今天你去找 CISO，我們會告訴你，你要確保你不會有資料洩露，確保我沒有合規時間，而且我要確保以相對精簡的團隊輕鬆的方式做到這一點。這正是我們正在為他們做的事情。

But in order to do it, we need to do it in the cloud. This is why we just put -- we are accelerating it. We want to make sure that we are adding value to all of our customers, and in order to do that, they need to be in SaaS.

但為了做到這一點，我們需要在雲端進行。這就是為什麼我們剛才提出——我們正在加速這一進程。我們希望確保為所有客戶增加價值，而為了做到這一點，他們需要使用 SaaS。

Joel Fishbein, Truist Securities.

Truist Securities 的 Joel Fishbein。

Guy, just for you. I'd love some more color and if you can quantify it in any way, the backlog that you currently have and how the pipeline is? I understand you're having some challenges via the conversions, but I just want to understand the health around that pipeline and the backlog.

哥們，只為你。我希望能提供更多細節，如果您能以任何方式量化它，您目前的積壓情況以及管道情況如何？我了解您在轉換過程中遇到了一些挑戰，但我只是想了解該管道和積壓情況的健康狀況。

I wouldn't say that -- when we talk about the conversions, I think they're weighing on the growth when you look at kind of the new business behavior. But I wouldn't say that it's not something that we can deal with.

我不會這麼說——當我們談論轉換時，我認為當你看一種新的商業行為時，它們會對成長產生影響。但我不會說這不是我們無法處理的事情。

When you look at the pipeline, we have a healthy pipeline. We have a lot of conversations with our existing customers on the conversion to SaaS. We're trying to start the process, as I mentioned before, earlier than what we would otherwise. And I think in terms of setting ourselves up for 2025, we feel very good with where we are today, both on the new customer side and on the existing customer conversion.

當你查看管道時，你會發現我們有一個健康的管道。我們與現有客戶就向 SaaS 轉換進行了多次對話。正如我之前提到的，我們正試圖比平常更早啟動這項進程。我認為，就 2025 年的目標而言，我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意，無論是在新客戶方面還是在現有客戶轉換方面。

Joseph Gallo, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的約瑟夫·加洛。

You guys have done a nice job of innovating and adding protection for different data stores, whether it's Salesforce, ServiceNow, Databricks, Snowflake, et cetera. Any quantitative disclosures you can provide on just traction you're seeing there? And then which of those buckets do you expect to see the most benefit to ARR in 2025? Just trying to see outside of Copilot, what areas you can see the most growth in.

你們在創新和為不同的資料儲存添加保護方面做得很好，無論是 Salesforce、ServiceNow、Databricks、Snowflake 等等。您能就所觀察到的牽引力提供任何定量披露嗎？那麼，您預計哪一個類別將在 2025 年為 ARR 帶來最大益處？只是想看看在 Copilot 之外，哪些領域可以看到最大的成長。

Yes. I think that some of them, it's early. We just released the coverage. But overall, in terms of demand, we see it all over because you see that this is where breaches are happening. I think the realization that we see from the marketplace is that there is an acute need for data security.

是的。我認為其中一些還為時過早。我們剛剛發布了報道。但總體而言，就需求而言，我們看到這種情況隨處可見，因為您會看到這就是發生違規行為的地方。我認為我們從市場上看到的認知是，對資料安全的需求很迫切。

And data security is, make sure that we don't have a breach and just think about the shield data side that they can do it automatically that discovery by itself will not work with the (inaudible) posture. Most of the time, it's not adding value, you really need to make sure that you can understand all the clinical data, remediate automatically.

資料安全就是確保我們不會出現漏洞，只要考慮屏蔽資料方面，他們可以自動完成，單獨發現不會對（聽不清楚）姿勢起作用。大多數時候，它並沒有增加價值，你真正需要確保的是，你可以理解所有的臨床數據，並自動補救。

And it's coming from -- we see that the demand is coming from all over the repository, if you are doing it right. Once we can apply all the features, what we can apply the automated remediation, the UBA and everything around it. But we see interest in most of these data stores. (inaudible) depositories of card data book security has Snowflake, is critical. Thinking about Salesforce is where you have PII. Most of the ransomware attacks still happening on patches on-prem. It's everywhere.

而且它來自——如果你做得正確的話，我們會看到需求來自整個儲存庫。一旦我們可以應用所有功能，我們就可以應用自動修復、UBA 及其周圍的一切。但我們看到人們對大多數這些資料儲存都感興趣。 （聽不清楚）信用卡資料簿安全的儲存庫有 Snowflake，非常關鍵。想想 Salesforce 就是您擁有 PII 的地方。大多數勒索軟體攻擊仍然發生在本地修補程式上。它無所不在。

And the other thing that works extremely well for us -- it's also everything that we are doing around identity in the RO stream. So when you look at our MDDR, most of the bad actors we catch before they get to the data once they get compromised identity.

另一件對我們來說非常有效的事情是我們在 RO 流中圍繞身份所做的一切。因此，當您查看我們的 MDDR 時，一旦身份被盜，我們會在大多數不良行為者獲取資料之前將其捕獲。

What happens today is that bad actors are not breaking in, they are relogging in. And we get them -- and once there is a compromised identity, there is no perimeter anymore, and obviously, insiders are a big threat. We just many times catching them -- most times actually before they get to the data. This is also something that's getting a lot of traction for us.

如今發生的情況是，惡意行為者並沒有闖入，而是重新登入。我們得到了它們 — — 一旦身份被洩露，就不再有邊界了，顯然內部人員是一個巨大的威脅。我們多次捕獲它們 —— 實際上大多數時候是在它們獲取數據之前。這也是我們非常關注的一件事。

Roger Boyd, UBS.

瑞銀（UBS）羅傑·博伊德（Roger Boyd）。

Guy, I wanted to come back to conversions. And I get the dynamic there of wanting to focus on that conversion now and the increased effort required to sell that conversion. But it's like a couple of quarters ago, there was more optimism around attaching more of the platform at the time of conversion.

蓋伊，我想回到轉換話題。我現在想要關注的是這種轉變，以及促成這種轉變所需的更多努力。但就像幾個季度前一樣，人們對在轉換時附加更多平台更加樂觀。

I guess am I getting that right? And if so, have you seen any change to that ability to attach more of the platform? Or conversely, has there been any change to how you're pricing those SaaS conversions?

我想我說的對嗎？如果是這樣，您是否看到附加更多平台的能力有任何變化？或者相反，您對這些 SaaS 轉換的定價方式有任何變化嗎？

No, we don't see any change in terms of the pricing. We're seeing healthy uplift on the conversions themselves. We talked a lot about the fact that the price list of SaaS is 25% to 30% higher than the on-prem subscription. We're seeing very healthy conversions in terms of pricing. We feel good about the ability to convert our customers.

不，我們沒有看到價格方面有任何變化。我們看到轉換率本身正在健康提升。我們多次討論過這樣一個事實：SaaS 的價格表比本地訂閱高出 25% 到 30%。我們看到定價方面的轉換非常健康。我們對能夠轉換客戶感到很滿意。

But keep in mind, we only announced the transition two years ago at the beginning of 2023, and we're already at 53% SaaS of ARR. So when you think about the magnitude and the dollar value that's involved in order to get so many of our customers to SaaS, you have to take that into consideration.

但請記住，我們兩年前（2023 年初）才宣布轉型，而我們的 ARR 中 SaaS 的比例已經達到 53%。因此，當您考慮吸引如此多的客戶使用 SaaS 所涉及的規模和金額時，您必須考慮這一點。

53% getting to the majority of our ARR coming from SaaS within two years is something that we feel very proud of. And with our decision to kind of complete the transition in 2025, if we can execute the way we believe we can, we'll be completing the transition in three years. That's two years quicker than what we initially thought and a year shorter than kind of what we talked about a year ago.

我們兩年內 53% 的 ARR 大部分來自 SaaS，這是我們感到非常自豪的事情。我們決定在 2025 年完成過渡，如果我們能夠按照我們認為的方式執行，我們將在三年內完成過渡。這比我們最初預想的要快兩年，比我們一年前談論的要短一年。

So we're very pleased with our ability to convert. The pricing is holding very well. We feel that once we convert our customers, there's an additional opportunity to sell them more platforms. It's in their benefit to move to SaaS, they'll be better protected, and it's also better for us.

所以我們對我們的轉換能力非常滿意。定價保持得很好。我們認為，一旦我們轉換了客戶，我們就有額外的機會向他們銷售更多的平台。轉向 SaaS 對他們有好處，他們會得到更好的保護，對我們也更好。

So it's a win-win for everyone. And that's why we're still happy with that with where we are so far, and we're very optimistic with going into 2025.

所以這對每個人來說都是雙贏的。這就是為什麼我們對目前的狀況仍然感到滿意，並且對 2025 年充滿樂觀。

Shaul Eyal, TD Cowen.

沙烏爾·埃亞爾（Shaul Eyal），TD Cowen。

Our checks indicate that you're seeing no headwinds whatsoever from Microsoft's Purview. I would even characterize that you guys are seeing tailwinds when compared with their products. Can you talk to us about your Microsoft relations also as we think about it from a Copilot perspective and the potential growth, it could be seen in 2025 and beyond?

我們的檢查表明，您沒有看到來自 Microsoft Purview 的任何阻力。我什至會描述說，與他們的產品相比，你們看到了順風。您能否從 Copilot 的角度與我們談談您與微軟的關係以及潛在的成長，以及它在 2025 年及以後可能實現的成長？

So we have a good partnership with them. Primarily, it's working on a case-by-case basis. We have maybe 20% overlapping feature is Purview. But by now, it's completely, completely different value proposition in terms of the automated remediation, the UBA, everything that's related to threat detection, very accurate classification at scale.

因此我們與他們建立了良好的合作關係。主要是根據具體情況進行處理。我們可能有 20% 重疊的功能是 Purview。但現在，在自動修復、UBA、與威脅偵測相關的一切、大規模非常準確的分類方面，它的價值主張已經完全不同。

But more than anything, I show we work extremely well together. We just -- we're using their label, them work very well with customers. And Varonis and Microsoft, one plus one equals five. It works very well for customers, and we have good partnership with them, but primarily a very good value proposition together.

但最重要的是，我表明我們之間的合作非常融洽。我們只是 - 我們正在使用他們的標籤，他們與客戶合作得很好。而瓦羅尼斯和微軟，一加一等於五。它對客戶非常有效，我們與他們建立了良好的合作關係，但主要是共同提出了非常好的價值主張。

Rob Owens, Piper Sandler.

羅伯歐文斯、派珀桑德勒。

I was hoping you could elaborate a little bit more around the AI contribution comments that you made, saying it was meaningful for the first time this quarter. Can you quantify it or talk about anything that may be changed quarter over quarter that made it become more meaningful?

我希望您能更詳細地闡述您對人工智慧貢獻的評論，並表示這是本季第一次有意義。您能否量化它或談論任何可能逐季改變的事情，以使其更有意義？

Absolutely. When we look at our new customer ARR growth, it really accelerated to approximately 50% in Q4. And this was driven both by MDDR and Copilot. And when we look at kind of MDDR and Copilot and the way we price it and the way we allow kind of the packaging of it, it could be sold individually, but the packaging really incentivized selling both as part of a platform sale with one SKU.

絕對地。當我們查看新客戶 ARR 成長時，我們發現第四季度該成長確實加速至約 50%。這是由 MDDR 和 Copilot 共同推動的。當我們研究 MDDR 和 Copilot 以及我們的定價方式和包裝方式時，它可以單獨出售，但包裝確實激勵將兩者作為平台銷售的一部分，使用一個 SKU 進行銷售。

And when we look at kind of the behavior of our packaging throughout 2024, it's worked really well. And it worked so well that it's really hard to pinpoint exactly which one of these two strong growth vectors is driving our business.

當我們觀察 2024 年全年的包裝行為時，我們發現效果確實很好。而且效果非常好，很難準確地指出這兩個強勁成長動力中的哪一個推動了我們的業務。

And we've said in the past that MDDR could be like DatAlert, as every customer should have it. And we talked about Gen AI as raising awareness for our solution and driving demand for Microsoft 365 and Copilot offering. So we really try to be as transparent as we can and provide as much information as possible. So we spent a lot of time trying to provide a metric, and we have one that I think can really stand out.

我們過去曾說過，MDDR 可以像 DatAlert 一樣，每個客戶都應該擁有它。我們討論了 Gen AI 如何提高人們對我們的解決方案的認識並推動對 Microsoft 365 和 Copilot 產品的需求。因此，我們確實盡力做到透明，並提供盡可能多的信息。因此，我們花了很多時間嘗試提供一個衡量標準，我認為我們有一個真正脫穎而出的標準。

When we look at 2024, we added nearly 100% more new users protected by Microsoft 365 offering when you compare that to 2023, which we think is driven by the increased customer interest in protecting Microsoft 365 and Copilot. So really, at the end of the day, it's clear that the new customer momentum is working really well, and both MDDR and Copilot are the key drivers of that, and we believe this trend is very durable.

展望 2024 年，與 2023 年相比，受 Microsoft 365 產品保護的新用戶增加了近 100%，我們認為這是由客戶對保護 Microsoft 365 和 Copilot 的興趣增加所推動的。所以，歸根結底，很明顯，新客戶的發展勢頭確實很好，而 MDDR 和 Copilot 都是這一趨勢的關鍵驅動因素，我們相信這種趨勢非常持久。

Jason Ader, William Blair.

傑森·阿德，威廉·布萊爾。

I guess the first thing I wanted to make sure of is, so the revenue miss in the quarter relative to your guidance, that was purely a function of the faster-than-expected transition to SaaS? Or was there some other elements to the FX or anything else?

我想我首先想確定的是，本季的營收未達預期，這純粹是由於向 SaaS 的轉型速度快於預期嗎？或者 FX 中是否存在其他元素或其他什麼東西？

When you go back to our guidance for Q4, we talked about a SaaS mix of 49% for Q4. And we actually got a 53% SaaS of ARR. So there's $11 million of headwind, which is 7% of headwind to our guide. So we're very happy that we were able to move quicker.

當您回顧我們對第四季度的指導時，我們討論了第四季度的 SaaS 組合為 49%。我們實際上獲得了 53% 的 SaaS ARR。因此逆風金額為 1,100 萬美元，占我們預期逆風金額的 7%。因此我們很高興能夠更快採取行動。

And we talked so many times about the fact that the quicker we move, the more headwind we get on revenue because of the revenue recognition difference between on-prem subscription that is recognized upfront versus the SaaS revenue recognition, which is ratable. So if we continue to miss on revenue because of the fact that we're moving quicker, I think all of us will be happy, investors will be happy, and that's what happened in Q4.

我們多次談到這樣一個事實：我們行動得越快，收入方面面臨的阻力就越大，這是因為預先確認的內部部署訂閱與可評估的 SaaS 收入確認之間存在差異。因此，如果我們因為行動太快而繼續錯失收入，我認為我們所有人都會高興，投資者也會高興，這就是第四季度發生的情況。

All right. Great. And then so I understand the revenue headwind, but I'm struggling a little bit on the ARR headwind. So I just wanted to make sure I fully understand because there is an uplift in a normal SaaS conversion, correct? Like a price uplift when you convert somebody.

好的。偉大的。因此，我理解收入方面的逆風，但是我在 ARR 逆風方面遇到了一些困難。所以我只是想確保我完全理解，因為正常的 SaaS 轉換會有所提升，對嗎？就像當你轉換某人時價格上漲一樣。

Can you just talk about the sort of the puts and takes there because it seems like even with the price uplift, you're hitting some headwinds?

您能否談談其中的風險和利弊，因為似乎即使價格上漲，您仍然會遇到一些阻力？

So we talked a lot about the fact that when you look at kind of the uplift, it's 25%, 30% when we do the conversions. But the one thing to keep in mind is that we're approximately a third of our existing customers that converted over a two-year period. So if you take that 25%, 30% uplift and you extrapolate that over a two-year period, it basically gets you somewhere in that NRR number, which is the 105%.

因此，我們討論了很多這樣的事實：當你看到提升量時，我們進行轉換時，提升量是 25% 到 30%。但要記住的一點是，我們現有客戶中約有三分之一是在兩年內轉變而來的。因此，如果您採用 25% 或 30% 的增幅，並在兩年的時間內進行推算，基本上就會得到 NRR 數字，即 105%。

And we talked about kind of the conversion being somewhat of a drag on the business, especially when you look at how simple the message is to new customers and how the MDDR -- and now we saw in Q4 the Copilot is resonating so well to a point where we saw a significant increase in the new customers.

我們談到了這種轉換對業務的某種程度的拖累，特別是當你看到向新客戶傳達的信息是多麼簡單，以及 MDDR 是如何做到的——現在我們在第四季度看到，Copilot 的反響非常好，我們看到新客戶數量顯著增加。

So yes, we are getting that uplift and we're seeing very strong pricing from the uplift. But at the end of the day, we only converted approximately a third of our customers over a two-year period. And that's part of the reason we want to accelerate our conversions in 2025 and be done with the transition in one more year.

所以是的，我們正在獲得這種提升，並且我們看到提升帶來的非常強勁的定價。但最終，在兩年的時間裡，我們只轉換了約三分之一的客戶。這就是我們希望在 2025 年加速轉型並在一年內完成過渡的部分原因。

Fatima Boolani, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Fatima Boolani。

This is Mark on for Fatima. Maybe just digging into the behavior of customers that have converted. Now that we're well into the transition, can you maybe share some of the expansion behavior and cadence of converted installed base in year one? And what are some of the patterns of adoption you're seeing in year two? And then additionally, with the observed learnings and the accelerated transition timeline, how should we think of the trajectory of NRR through calendar '25?

這是法蒂瑪的馬克。也許只是深入研究已經轉換好的客戶的行為。現在我們已經進入轉型期，您能否分享第一年轉換安裝基數的一些擴展行為和節奏？您在第二年看到了哪些採用模式？此外，透過觀察到的經驗和加速的過渡時間表，我們應該如何看待 NRR 在 25 年曆中的軌跡？

Look, very good questions, and I'll try and address them one by one. First of all, when you look at kind of the behavior, we only announced the transition at the beginning of 2023. So we're only two years there. We don't have a full set of data of analyzing how the behavior of SaaS customers progresses because really, there's not enough history there.

你看，這些問題都非常好，我會盡力一一解答。首先，當你觀察這種行為時，你會發現我們只是在 2023 年初宣布了這個轉變。所以我們在那裡只待了兩年。我們沒有一整套數據來分析 SaaS 客戶的行為如何發展，因為實際上沒有足夠的歷史記錄。

But from the numbers that we have analyzed, we had seen that the 2024 NRR numbers are actually higher, nicely higher than the 105% that we reported for the full existing customer base. So that gives us a lot of confidence that as we complete the transition, we have the ability to sell additional licenses to our existing customers.

但從我們分析的數字來看，我們發現 2024 年的 NRR 數字實際上更高，遠高於我們報告的全部現有客戶群的 105%。因此，這給了我們很大的信心，當我們完成過渡時，我們有能力向現有客戶出售額外的許可證。

The richness of the platform is great. There's a ton of opportunity to sell to the base. We just need to make sure that we move them to SaaS. They get the MDDR, we talk about the automation, and they feel the automation. And with that automation, we could come back and sell them additional platforms.

該平台的豐富程度非常高。有大量機會可以向基地銷售。我們只需要確保將它們轉移到 SaaS。他們得到了 MDDR，我們談論自動化，他們感受到了自動化。有了這種自動化，我們就可以回來向他們出售其他平台。

So overall, we feel very optimistic. And that's part of the reason that we want to move as quickly as we can in 2025.

所以整體來說，我們感到非常樂觀。這就是我們希望在 2025 年盡快採取行動的原因之一。

Andrew Nowinski, Wells Fargo.

富國銀行的安德魯‧諾溫斯基 (Andrew Nowinski)。

I just wanted to ask about maybe the size of this conversion. I mean, it looks like you added about $215 million in SaaS ARR in 2024, and your guidance assumes about another $362 million. So significantly more ARR.

我只是想問一下這種轉換的規模。我的意思是，看起來你在 2024 年增加了約 2.15 億美元的 SaaS ARR，而你的指導假設是再增加約 3.62 億美元。因此 ARR 顯著增加。

And I think you just said you still have about two-thirds of your customers left to convert to SaaS. So it's a pretty big chunk of customers as well. I guess what gives you confidence that you can massively increase, I guess, the conversions to SaaS this year versus what you saw in 2024?

我記得您剛才說過，您仍有大約三分之二的客戶需要轉換為 SaaS。因此這也是一個相當大的客戶群。我想，是什麼讓您有信心，與 2024 年相比，今年可以大幅增加向 SaaS 的轉換？

So if you remember, when we did our Investor Day in March of 2023, we kind of outlined the plan to complete our transition in 2027. And we defined completing the transition when we get to 70% to 90% of total company ARR coming from SaaS.

所以如果你還記得的話，當我們在 2023 年 3 月舉辦投資者日時，我們概述了在 2027 年完成過渡的計劃。我們定義，當公司總 ARR 的 70% 到 90% 來自 SaaS 時，轉型就完成了。

Now we expect to complete, obviously, in 2025, and we talked about kind of the number that we see at the end of the year being 78% of ARR coming from SaaS. So from a numbers perspective, the assumption is that SaaS ARR is going to be approximately $580 million by year-end. And as you mentioned, it's a significant increase.

現在我們預計顯然會在 2025 年完成，我們談到了我們在年底看到的數字，即 78% 的 ARR 來自 SaaS。因此，從數位角度來看，假設到年底 SaaS ARR 將達到約 5.8 億美元。正如您所提到的，這是一個顯著的增長。

As we sit here today, the assumption is $240 million of SaaS ARR in 2025, a meaningful increase versus the $215 million that we had in 2024. But you're thinking about it completing the transition by getting to [100]. And we're talking from a numbers perspective and where we sit here today of completing the transition when you get anywhere between 70% to 90% and our starting point for the year is 78%. I actually think we can do better than that, but as we sit here today, that's the starting point for us.

今天，我們假設 2025 年的 SaaS ARR 將達到 2.4 億美元，與 2024 年的 2.15 億美元相比有顯著成長。但你正在考慮透過[100]我們從數字的角度進行討論，今天我們在這裡完成過渡的時間為 70% 到 90% 之間，而我們今年的起點是 78%。我實際上認為我們可以做得更好，但今天我們坐在這裡，這就是我們的起點。

Because it's very important to understand that we really narrowed a lot of the parity gap between the OPS and the SaaS platform, and we build a lot of automation to make sure that we can migrate fast to the SaaS. So we want to make sure that the migration itself will work in a frictionless, more automated way.

因為了解這一點非常重要，我們確實縮小了 OPS 和 SaaS 平台之間的差距，並且我們建立了大量自動化系統以確保我們能夠快速遷移到 SaaS。因此，我們希望確保遷移本身能夠以順暢、更自動化的方式進行。

Rudy Kessinger, DA Davidson.

魯迪凱辛格、DA 戴維森。

As the conversions, I guess, start to wind down, and I guess it's not really winding down this year, but more so next year. You're obviously going to have cross-sell, upsell and/or new logo ARR, net new ARR start to simultaneously pick up if you're going to sustain discounted growth profile, going back to Hamza's question earlier.

我想，隨著轉換開始逐漸減少，我想今年它不會真正減少，但明年會減少更多。如果你要維持折扣成長狀況，那麼顯然你將需要同時進行交叉銷售、追加銷售和/或新標誌 ARR、淨新 ARR 開始回升，回到 Hamza 之前提出的問題。

So how do you ensure that happens? Like if your reps are so heavily focused on conversions this year, how do you, at the same time, make sure you're building up that cross-sell and upsell pipeline heading into '26 to make sure that pipeline is there to support that sustainable growth profile?

那麼你要如何確保這一點呢？例如，如果您的銷售代表今年非常專注於轉換率，那麼您如何確保在26年建立交叉銷售和追加銷售管道，以確保該管道能夠支援永續成長？

So first of all, let's talk about 2024. We finished the year with ARR growth of 18%, and our NRR was at 105%. So when you do the math, you basically see that the driver, what drove the business in 2024 was the new business.

首先，我們來談談 2024 年。我們今年的 ARR 成長率為 18%，NRR 達到 105%。因此，當你進行計算時，你基本上會發現，推動 2024 年業務發展的驅動力是新業務。

So I actually think that when we complete the transition, it puts us in a better position to do the upsell. And if we can continue to sell to new customers and with the platform that we have and the simplicity and the MDDR and the Copilot, and there's a lot of tailwinds that are working in our favor, when you bake that in and you kind of eliminate the headwind that the conversions are generating, it puts you in a much better position.

因此我實際上認為當我們完成轉變時，我們將更有能力進行追加銷售。如果我們能夠繼續向新客戶銷售產品，並且利用我們已有的平台、簡易性、MDDR 和 Copilot，並且有很多對我們有利的順風，當你將這些因素考慮進去，並消除轉換產生的逆風時，你就會處於更有利的地位。

So look at the results in 2024 and kind of understand where the growth -- where the drivers came from. And I think that if you look at how this company can look post transition, it's a much healthier position with the richness of the platform that allows you to go back to it to much better NRR numbers that we believe we can get to post transition.

因此，看看 2024 年的結果，就能了解成長來自哪裡──驅動力來自哪裡。我認為，如果你看看這家公司在過渡後的表現，你會發現它的地位更加健康，擁有豐富的平台，可以讓你回到原來的狀態，獲得更好的 NRR 數字，我們相信我們可以在過渡後獲得這樣的數字。

Shrenik Kothari, Robert W. Baird.

Shrenik Kothari、Robert W. Baird。

You mentioned that a key benefit of accelerating this SaaS transition, of course, id the eventual freeing up of sales and engineering resources to concentrate on features and expansion, and I'm presuming AI security, all of that's part of that, rather than focusing on conversion and logistics around that.

您提到加速這種 SaaS 轉型的一個主要好處當然是最終釋放銷售和工程資源，使其專注於功能和擴展，我認為還有人工智慧安全，所有這些都是其中的一部分，而不是專注於周圍的轉換和物流。

Could you help us better understand the resource reallocation comment and plans, some specifics? Are you anticipating kind of repurposing the sales pre-Salesforce into more specialized roles focusing on like advanced AI and that driven demand security since you mentioned about AI seeing inflection?

您能否幫助我們更好地理解資源重新分配的評論和計劃，以及一些具體內容？您是否預計，Salesforce 先前的銷售工作將重新定位為更專業的角色，專注於先進的人工智慧，並推動需求安全，因為您提到人工智慧正在轉變？

And then just like how do you see this intersect with the Phase 2 in your transition, particularly around converting these large on-prem accounts, which might have pretty specific data residency, regulatory requirements? Really appreciate your thoughts here.

然後，您如何看待這與過渡的第二階段相交叉，特別是圍繞轉換這些大型內部部署帳戶，這些帳戶可能具有非常具體的資料駐留和監管要求？非常感謝您的想法。

So when you look at kind of the 2025 comp plan, each rep has a specific target to convert their self-hosted customers to SaaS. And that's something that we didn't have in 2024. With that said, we're not losing the focus on new customers. And the new customers is what drove us in 2024. And we believe that with the tailwinds that we have and the simplicity of the platform, we can continue seeing that in the years ahead.

因此，當您查看 2025 年薪酬計劃時，每個代表都有一個特定的目標，即將其自託管客戶轉變為 SaaS。這是我們在 2024 年所沒有的。話雖如此，我們並沒有忽視對新客戶的關注。新客戶是我們在 2024 年前進的動力。我們相信，憑藉我們現有的順風和平台的簡單性，我們可以在未來幾年繼續看到這一點。

So I think the -- it's not that -- some of the resources that we're getting are on top. And we already did some hiring, and we're also doing additional hiring for the purpose of making sure that we can cater to the documentational challenges that we're seeing with the conversion.

所以我認為 — — 事實並非如此 — — 我們所獲得的一些資源是最重要的。我們已經進行了一些招聘，而且還在進行額外的招聘，以確保我們能夠應對轉換過程中遇到的文件挑戰。

But at the end of the day, it's not like we're changing the framework of the sales force, everything is staying the same. We're doing things in a very prudent way. When you look at the expense and the ARR contribution margin, we've progressed very well over the last two years since we started the transition, and we're at 16.6% ARR contribution margin. So everything we're doing, we're doing with -- thinking very well about the leverage, bringing some of it to the bottom line and the free cash flow.

但歸根究底，我們並沒有改變銷售團隊的框架，一切都保持不變。我們做事非常謹慎。當您查看費用和 ARR 貢獻利潤率時，我們會發現自我們開始轉型以來，在過去兩年中我們取得了非常好的進展，ARR 貢獻利潤率達到了 16.6％。因此，我們所做的一切，都是在認真考慮槓桿，將其中的一部分帶入底線和自由現金流。

So think about where we are two years into the transition, free cash flow being at $108.5 million, doubling that number from last year. I think all that we're doing is trying to make sure that the experience for the customer is as easy and smooth as possible. And some of the lessons that we took from 2024, we're trying to implement in 2025.

想想我們在轉型兩年後的情況，自由現金流達到 1.085 億美元，比去年翻了一番。我認為我們所做的一切都是為了確保客戶的體驗盡可能輕鬆順暢。我們從 2024 年學到的一些教訓，我們正嘗試在 2025 年實施。

Joshua Tilton, Wolfe Research.

喬舒亞·蒂爾頓（Joshua Tilton），沃爾夫研究公司。

Hey, guys, can you hear me?

嘿，夥計們，你聽得到我說話嗎？

We can.

我們可以。

I just have maybe a two-parter. The first one is -- and I apologize to beat a dead horse here, but on this decision to kind of accelerate the transition, many times on the call, you pointed out, you guys are already tracking ahead of your initial plan to convert to SaaS.

我可能只有兩個部分。第一個問題是——我很抱歉在這裡重複老生常談，但關於加速轉型的決定，你在電話會議上多次指出，你們已經提前實現了向 SaaS 轉換的初步計劃。

So I guess I'm trying to understand, did something change this quarter that's making conversions more challenging than they were previously to the point where you felt like you needed to incentivize an acceleration in the rest of the transition?

所以我想我試著了解，本季是否發生了一些變化，使得轉換比以前更具挑戰性，以至於您覺得需要激勵加速其餘的轉換？

And then my second part of the question is just how contingent or how necessary is it for you to actually accelerate the transitions in 2025 in order for you to hit the ARR guidance that you gave us tonight?

然後，我的問題的第二部分是，為了達到您今晚給我們的 ARR 指導，您在 2025 年加速轉型的機率有多大或必要性有多大？

I think when you look at -- let's start with the guidance first. So I think when you look at the guidance that we gave for 2025, it goes based on the same philosophy that we had in 2024, meaning that the net new ARR contribution from previous year is kind of the starting point.

我認為當你看的時候—我們先從指導開始。因此，我認為，當您查看我們為 2025 年給出的指導時，它基於與我們在 2024 年相同的理念，這意味著上一年的淨新 ARR 貢獻是一種起點。

And as we sit here today, there's a lot of benefits that we think can become tailwinds for us, whether it's the regulation, MDDR, the threat environment, Gen AI, basically, the increased demand for Varonis as a whole. So I think it's -- when you look at the guidance, it's a good starting point for the year. And as we have done in the past, we'll be more than happy to update our guidance as the year progresses.

今天，我們認為有很多好處可以成為我們的順風，無論是法規、MDDR、威脅環境、Gen AI，還是基本上對 Varonis 整體的需求增加。所以我認為——當你看這份指引時，這是今年的一個好起點。正如我們過去所做的那樣，我們非常樂意隨著時間的推移更新我們的指導。

So that kind of takes care of the guidance question. I think when you look at the conversions, I'm not -- I don't think there's anything new in what we're saying now versus what we said over the last two quarters. You heard us talk a lot about the fact that conversions are not what is leading the company. We got a lot of questions over the last couple of months from investors that thought that what's driving the business and what's driving ARR is kind of the conversions and what's going to happen when the company finishes the conversion process.

這樣就解決了指導問題。我認為，當你看到這些轉換時，我不認為我們現在所說的話與過去兩個季度相比有什麼新意。您聽到我們多次談論轉換並不是引領公司發展的因素。在過去的幾個月裡，我們收到了許多投資者提出的問題，他們認為推動業務發展和 ARR 成長的因素是轉換，以及當公司完成轉換過程後會發生什麼。

And I think when you look at the numbers in 2024 and you look at the ARR number and you look at the NRR number, you understand that everything that we've said over the last couple of quarters actually is reflected in the numbers. What's driven the growth in 2024 with the new business, I think it's in every month's best interest that we accelerate the transition, it's in our customers' best interest, it's in our investors' best interest. It's in the company's best interest.

我認為，當您查看 2024 年的數字、ARR 數字和 NRR 數字時，您就會明白我們在過去幾個季度所說的一切實際上都反映在數字中。推動 2024 年新業務成長的因素是什麼？這符合公司的最大利益。

And we're making sure that we're doing it the right way, in a prudent way, but in a very strategic way to make sure that our customers could be better protected much quicker than if they stayed on on-prem subscription.

我們正在確保以正確、審慎但又非常有策略的方式開展業務，以確保我們的客戶能夠比繼續使用本地訂閱更快地得到更好的保護。

But our value is just the functionality on top of this cloud architecture, the overall software. And the way that it works is that we need to bring our customers to SaaS to realize value. Once they are there, the only thing they need to do in order to get the value is to buy the software, almost nothing else.

但我們的價值只是這個雲端架構之上的功能，也就是整體軟體。它的運作方式是，我們需要將客戶帶入 SaaS 來實現價值。一旦到達那裡，他們為了獲得價值所需要做的唯一事情就是購買軟體，幾乎不需要做其他事情。

And this is everything. We see where we want to put our customers. Once it's there, they cannot have data breaches. They can be in compliance all the time, and we do it with a very, very lean team.

這就是全部了。我們知道我們想把我們的客戶放在哪裡。一旦資料到達那裡，就不會發生資料外洩。他們可以始終遵守規定，而且我們透過一個非常精幹的團隊來實現這一點。

As I said before, this is what we are trying to do, and we want to make sure that they are -- it's really 10% of the effort, 10 times more the value in many, many, many cases. This is where we want to be. So this is -- once we are there, everything is much easier for our customers, and everything is much easier for us.

正如我之前所說，這就是我們正在嘗試做的事情，我們希望確保他們——這確實是 10% 的努力，在很多很多情況下是 10 倍的價值。這正是我們想要的。所以，一旦我們到達那裡，對於我們的客戶來說一切都會變得容易得多，對我們來說一切都會變得容易得多。

Matt Dezort, Needham & Company.

馬特·德佐特（Matt Dezort），Needham & Company。

All right. I wanted to ask about the Gen AI pipeline. Just curious how your balance is for Copilot across new and existing customers, what the opportunity looks like? And since it sounds like it's being bundled in more and more with MDDR, what sort of uplift are you seeing with those two when included in a deal?

好的。我想問有關 Gen AI 管道的問題。只是好奇您對 Copilot 在新舊客戶之間的平衡情況如何，機會是什麼樣的？而且聽起來它越來越多地與 MDDR 捆綁在一起，那麼當它們包含在交易中時，您認為會帶來什麼樣的提升？

This Copilot is something that we believe that almost every knowledgeable worker eventually will have. And I think that so far, it's working exactly as we expected. As you roll it out, as you roll Copilot more within organization, the data security probably becoming more evident, you can't ignore it. This robot bringing you a lot of data that you shouldn't get, and many times, employees are doing things that they shouldn't do.

我們相信，幾乎每個知識淵博的工人最終都會擁有這個 Copilot。我認為到目前為止，它的運行正如我們預期的那樣。隨著您推出它，隨著您在組織內更多地推廣 Copilot，資料安全性可能會變得更加明顯，您無法忽視它。這個機器人帶給你很多你不該得到的數據，而且很多時候，員工也在做不該做的事情。

So Varonis is the foundation for secure deployment of AI, but you can also see for Microsoft that it's still in the early innings for them. But I believe that eventually, it will be in the hands of every knowledge worker. So it's everywhere. Every organization that is using AI will need us to protect it, and you can see these existing customers, prospects, and all over.

因此，Varonis 是安全部署 AI 的基礎，但您也可以看到，對於微軟來說​​，這仍處於早期階段。但我相信，最終它將掌握在每位知識工作者的手中。因此它無所不在。每個使用人工智慧的組織都需要我們來保護它，你可以看到這些現有客戶、潛在客戶等等。

Thank you. And this concludes the question-and-answer session. Therefore, I would like to turn the call back over to Tim Perz for closing comments.

謝謝。問答環節到此結束。因此，我想將電話轉回給 Tim Perz 來做最後評論。

Thanks for the interest in Varonis. We look forward to meeting everyone this quarter at the investor conferences.

感謝您對 Varonis 的關注。我們期待在本季的投資者會議上與大家見面。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference, and you may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，今天的會議到此結束，各位可以掛斷電話了。感謝您的參與。