Varonis Systems Inc (VRNS) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the Varonis Systems fourth-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce Tim Perz, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加Varonis Systems 2025年第四季財報電話會議。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。現在我很高興向大家介紹投資者關係部的提姆‧佩爾茲。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today to review Varonis' fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 financial results. With me on the call today are Yaki Faitelson, Chief Executive Officer; and Guy Melamed, Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer of Varonis. After preliminary remarks, we will open the call to a question-and-answer session.

謝謝接線生。午安.感謝您今天與我們一起回顧Varonis 2025年第四季和全年財務表現。今天與我一起參加電話會議的有 Varonis 的執行長 Yaki Faitelson，以及財務長兼營運長 Guy Melamed。在作初步發言後，我們將進入問答環節。

During this call, we may make statements related to our business that would be considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws, including projections of future operating results for our first quarter and full year ending December 31, 2026. Due to a number of factors, actual results may differ materially from those set forth in such statements. These factors are set forth in the earnings press release that we issued today under the section captioned, forward-looking statements, and these and other important risk factors are described more fully in our reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We encourage all investors to read our SEC filings.

在本次電話會議中，我們可能會發表一些與我們業務相關的聲明，這些聲明根據聯邦證券法將被視為前瞻性聲明，包括對我們截至 2026 年 12 月 31 日的第一季度和全年未來經營業績的預測。由於多種因素，實際結果可能與此類聲明中所述的結果有重大差異。這些因素已在我們今天發布的獲利新聞稿的「前瞻性聲明」部分中列出，這些以及其他重要的風險因素在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告中進行了更詳細的描述。我們鼓勵所有投資者閱讀我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

These statements reflect Power views only as of today and should not be relied upon as representing our views as of any subsequent date. Varonis expressly disclaims any application or undertaking to release publicly any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements made herein. Additionally, non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed on this conference call.

這些聲明僅反映 Power 截至今日的觀點，不應被視為代表我們此後任何日期的觀點。Varonis明確聲明，不承擔任何公開更新或修訂本文所作任何前瞻性陳述的義務或責任。此外，本次電話會議也將討論非GAAP財務指標。

A reconciliation for the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures is also available in our fourth-quarter 2025 earnings press release and our investor presentation, which can be found at varonis.com in the Investor Relations section. Lastly, please note that a webcast of today's call is available on our website in the Investor Relations section.

我們還提供了與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標進行核對的表格，該表格可在 varonis.com 的投資者關係部分找到。最後，請注意，今天電話會議的網路直播可以在我們網站的投資者關係版塊找到。

With that, I'd like to turn the call over to our Chief Executive Officer, Yaki Faitelson. Yaki?

接下來，我想把電話交給我們的執行長亞基·費特爾森。烤肉？

Thanks, Tim, and good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us to discuss our fourth quarter and full year 2025 results. Over the past year, we have talked about Varonis as a story of two companies. The first is our strong SaaS business, which reflects the present and future of our company and the second is our legacy on-prem business, which is serving as a headwind to our total company ARR growth.

謝謝你，提姆，大家下午好。感謝您參加我們關於2025年第四季和全年業績的討論。過去一年，我們一直把 Varonis 的故事描述為兩家公司的故事。首先是我們強大的 SaaS 業務，它反映了我們公司的現在和未來；其次是我們傳統的本地部署業務，它對我們公司整體 ARR 成長構成了阻礙。

In simply, the headwind was especially pronounced, as a result, we are now disclosing additional metrics. The purpose of this to allow investors to understand all the drivers of our business, Guy will expand upon this later.

簡而言之，由於逆風特別明顯，因此，我們現在披露更多指標。這樣做的目的是為了讓投資者了解我們業務的所有驅動因素，Guy 稍後會對此進行詳細說明。

In the fourth quarter, our SaaS business continued its momentum and our decision to end of life our self-hosted platform combined who is the lesson we learned in Q3 led to a record number of conversion. In Q4, SaaS ARR was $638.5 million or 86% of total ARR. Q4 ARR increased 32% year over year, excluding the impact of conversion and total ARR increased 16% year over year to $745.4 million.

第四季度，我們的 SaaS 業務繼續保持成長勢頭，我們決定終止自託管平台的生命週期，並吸取了第三季度的經驗教訓，最終實現了創紀錄的轉換率。第四季度，SaaS ARR 為 6.385 億美元，佔總 ARR 的 86%。第四季 ARR 年成長 32%，不計轉換的影響，總 ARR 年增 16% 至 7.454 億美元。

Now, I would like to give you some additional color on last quarter decision to announce the end of life for our self-hosted deployment model and the decision to transition our business to be 100% staffed by the end of 2026. Prior to the introduction of Varonis SaaS, we believe our self-hosted software was the best way to secure data, but the downside of this software was that it requires significantly more resource to do so.

現在，我想就上個季度宣布終止自託管部署模式以及決定到 2026 年底實現 100% 人員配備的業務轉型計劃，再向大家補充一些細節。在 Varonis SaaS 推出之前，我們認為我們自架的軟體是保護資料的最佳方式，但該軟體的缺點是需要投入更多的資源。

Our SaaS product is fully automated. It is different to our self-hosted solution, a self-driving car to a bicycle. You can get to the same destination in either method, but with one to do the majority of work yourselves and with the other, it gets you there automatically and with minimal effort. We can do this because we build our SaaS platform using world-class architecture, the newest technologies and the lesson we learned with securing data in large complex dynamic environment for thousands of customers. This allows us to protect our SaaS customers in ways that were not possible with our self-hosted solution.

我們的SaaS產品實現了完全自動化。這與我們自架的解決方案不同，就像自動駕駛汽車與自行車不同。兩種方法都能到達同一個目的地，但一種方法需要你付出大部分努力，而另一種方法則能讓你自動到達目的地，只需付出最少的努力。我們之所以能夠做到這一點，是因為我們採用世界一流的架構、最新的技術以及我們在為成千上萬客戶在大型複雜動態環境中保護資料方面所汲取的經驗，構建了我們的 SaaS 平台。這使我們能夠以自架解決方案無法實現的方式保護我們的 SaaS 客戶。

For instance, we can only provide MVDR to our SaaS customers because of the automation and centralized visibility within our platform. It is important to understand that for most other companies that underwent SaaS transition, the technological gap between their self-hosted and SaaS products was not as large as it is with our platform. This provides our SaaS customers with much higher satisfaction which leads to higher renewal rates when compared to our remaining self-hosted customers, many of which are what we call single credit customers. This means, they only use Varonis self-hosted platform for a single use case on one data store, and because they don't use the full data security platform -- they began to show a greater resistance towards paying a premium to move to Varonis SaaS in Q3.

例如，由於我們平台的自動化和集中式視覺性，我們只能為 SaaS 客戶提供 MVDR 服務。需要注意的是，對於大多數其他經歷 SaaS 轉型的公司而言，其自架產品和 SaaS 產品之間的技術差距並不像我們的平台那麼大。與其餘的自託管客戶（其中許多是我們所謂的單次信用客戶）相比，這使我們的 SaaS 客戶獲得了更高的滿意度，從而帶來了更高的續約率。這意味著，他們只在一個資料儲存上的一個用例中使用 Varonis 自託管平台，並且由於他們沒有使用完整的資料安全平台，因此他們在第三季度開始對支付額外費用遷移到 Varonis SaaS 表現出更大的抵觸情緒。

In order to move quickly and maximize customer retention, we are focusing less on uplift for conversion of our remaining on-prem customers, we believe we can show even more value to SaaS to these customers and then have opportunities to upsell them in the future. In the fourth quarter, our decision to end of life, our self-hosted platform was a catalyst that caused many of our remaining self-hosted customers to convert to SaaS. We converted approximately $65 million or one-third of our remaining non-SaaS ARR in the quarter. And believe that between $50 million to $75 million of the remaining self-hosted customers will convert by the end of the year.

為了快速發展並最大限度地提高客戶留存率，我們減少了對剩餘本地部署客戶轉換率的提升，我們相信我們可以向這些客戶展示 SaaS 的更多價值，並在未來有機會向他們追加銷售。第四季度，我們決定停止自託管平台的運營，這項決定促使我們剩餘的許多自託管客戶轉向 SaaS。本季我們轉換了約 6,500 萬美元，佔剩餘非 SaaS ARR 的三分之一。預計到今年年底，剩餘的自託管客戶將有 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元轉換為付費用戶。

At the same time, we continue to see strong demand from both new and existing customers because they can secure data with minimal effort because of our automation. Part of SPM tools may be able to identify a portion of sensitive data, but no other tool can find sensitive data in a complete way, fixed misconfiguration at scale automatically, and alert and respond to threats, delivering automated outcomes like Varonis does. Within our SaaS portfolio, MDR and Copilot continued to show strong adoption trends and Varonis for cloud environments continued its momentum, which was driven by the investment we have made in our platform to expand our use cases and protect many more data platforms.

同時，由於我們的自動化功能可以幫助新舊客戶以最少的努力保護數據，因此我們持續看到來自新舊客戶的強勁需求。部分 SPM 工具可能能夠識別一部分敏感數據，但沒有其他工具能夠像 Varonis 那樣完整地查找敏感數據、自動大規模修復錯誤配置、發出警報並應對威脅，從而提供自動化的結果。在我們的 SaaS 產品組合中，MDR 和 Copilot 繼續展現出強勁的採用趨勢，而 Varonis for cloud environments 也繼續保持成長勢頭，這得益於我們對平台的投資，以擴展我們的用例並保護更多的數據平台。

We are seeing this demand because customers realizing that visibility alone is not enough and classification without protection is liability. Automation is necessary to achieve real outcomes. That conversation with customers on our database activity monitoring and security products underscore our belief that these are strong fit for our portfolio in 2026. We expect our reps to put significantly more focus on new business and uplifting SaaS customers. Over time, we believe this focus will help us unlock the potential of this market.

我們看到這種需求，是因為客戶意識到僅僅有可見性是不夠的，而沒有保護的分類則會帶來責任風險。自動化是實現實際成果的必要條件。與客戶就我們的資料庫活動監控和安全產品進行的對話，更加堅定了我們對這些產品非常適合我們 2026 年產品組合的信念。我們希望我們的銷售代表將更多精力放在拓展新業務和提升 SaaS 客戶體驗上。我們相信，隨著時間的推移，這種專注將有助於我們釋放這個市場的潛力。

Now I would like to step back from our near-term results and discuss why we believe we are best positioned to help companies safely adapt the eye and prevent data breaches. Varonis was founded on the belief that managing and protecting data will be impossible without automation. Over time, our growth has been fueled by the constant balance between productivity and security. Today, the emergence of AI is accelerating both the volume and complexity of data in an unprecedented rate. The scale of data growth is matched only by the AI ability to increase the sophistication of modern cyber threat.

現在我想暫時拋開我們近期的業績，討論一下為什麼我們認為我們最有能力幫助企業安全地調整視力並防止資料外洩。Varonis 的創立理念是：如果沒有自動化，資料管理和保護將是不可能的。隨著時間的推移，我們不斷發展壯大，這得益於生產力和安全性之間的持續平衡。如今，人工智慧的出現正以前所未有的速度加速資料量和資料複雜性的成長。資料成長的規模只有人工智慧不斷提升現代網路威脅複雜性的能力才能與之匹敵。

Cyber criminals are leveraging the AI agents to infiltrate organization with minimal human involvement, recent incidents such as Chinese state actors using Claude code to breach major corporations highlight the sensitivity and ease of these attacks. Most of these AI-powered attacks start with social engineering. Attackers aren't hacking computers. They are hacking trusts and users can not tell what real or fake anymore.

網路犯罪分子正在利用人工智慧代理以最少的人工幹預滲透組織，最近發生的事件，例如中國國家行為者使用 Claude 代碼入侵大型企業，凸顯了這些攻擊的敏感性和易用性。大多數此類人工智慧攻擊都是從社會工程開始的。攻擊者並非在入侵電腦。他們正在入侵信託，用戶再也無法分辨真假了。

Cyber criminals are using AI without gardens. Companies want to adapt the AI as quickly but struggled to due to concerns over data security. The deployment of AI agents raises critical compliance questions: what data does the agent have access to? Is that data sensitive? Is the agent behaving as expected?

網路犯罪分子正在利用人工智慧而不設防。企業希望盡快採用人工智慧技術，但由於擔心資料安全問題而舉步維艱。人工智慧代理的部署引發了關鍵的合規性問題：代理可以存取哪些資料？這些數據是否敏感？代理的行為是否符合預期？

Most organizations struggle to answer these questions for human users and the challenge is amplified as they must now secure exponentially more AI agents. Agents are nothing without data. The more data agents can access the more useful and more risky they become. They operate faster than humans, collaborate autonomously and maximize their privilege by design.

大多數組織都難以回答人類使用者提出的這些問題，而隨著他們現在必須保障數量呈指數級增長的人工智慧代理的安全，這項挑戰變得更加嚴峻。沒有數據，經紀人就什麼都不是。代理人能夠獲得的數據越多，他們的作用就越大，風險也越大。它們比人類行動更快，能夠自主協作，並透過設計最大限度地利用自身特權。

AI security depends on data security. In addition, companies will need guardrails and controls around their AI agents and tool sets.

人工智慧安全取決於資料安全。此外，企業還需要為其人工智慧代理和工具集設定防護措施和控制措施。

To accelerate our ability to help companies safely adopt AI, Varonis announced today that it has acquired AllTrue, an AI security company acquisition strength Varonis ability to protect enterprise for emerging AI risk by combining AllTrue's end-to-end visibility and guardrails for AI Tool. With Varonis' ability to protect the underlying data and identities using by AI agents. AllTrue had end-to-end visibility and control across AI life cycle.

為了加快我們幫助企業安全採用人工智慧的能力，Varonis 今天宣布收購了人工智慧安全公司 AllTrue。此次收購將增強 Varonis 保護企業免受新興人工智慧風險影響的能力，方法是將 AllTrue 的端到端可視性和人工智慧工具防護措施結合起來。Varonis 能夠保護 AI 代理程式使用的底層資料和身分。AllTrue 對人工智慧的整個生命週期擁有端到端的可視性和控制權。

It inventories high components and infrastructure, lock it down, monitor AI tools and automate compliance. The acquisition reinforce our data first strategy and extended our platform to secure all AI systems and the data powering them. Our SaaS platform allows for much faster organic innovation integration of tuck-in acquisitions, which enhance our customer ability to stay ahead of bad actors. Since launching SaaS, we have gone wider and deeper hear customer stock breaches everywhere and we can now tap into more budgets than ever, including data and AI security, database activity monitoring and email security. We have unified unstructured semi structure and structure data security into a single platform, which is essential in an age of AI because AI uses or data types.

它清點高價值組件和基礎設施，對其進行鎖定，監控人工智慧工具並實現合規性自動化。此次收購鞏固了我們以數據為先的策略，並擴展了我們的平台，以保護所有人工智慧系統及其背後的數據。我們的 SaaS 平台能夠更快地整合有機創新和小型收購，從而增強客戶領先於不良行為者的能力。自從推出 SaaS 以來，我們不斷擴大並深入了解客戶在各地遇到的股票外洩問題，現在我們可以利用比以往任何時候都多的預算，包括資料和人工智慧安全、資料庫活動監控和電子郵件安全。我們將非結構化、半結構化和結構化資料安全統一到一個平台中，這在人工智慧時代至關重要，因為人工智慧會使用各種資料類型。

When you combine Interceptor, which is our e-mail security offering with our SaaS platform and MVDR. It becomes a force multiplier, top sets, even faster and kicked factors even further from data.

當您將我們的電子郵件安全產品 Interceptor 與我們的 SaaS 平台和 MVDR 結合使用時。它成為力量倍增器，頂級組，速度更快，踢球因素甚至從數據中進一步擴大。

With that, I would like to briefly discuss a couple of key customer wins from Q4. We continue to see strong demand from new customers and one example of this was a health care service organization that was performing a risk assessment during a multi-cloud migration and we realize that the native tools were insufficient to lock down their data. As a result, we launched a DSPM RFP process and ultimately, choose Varonis after we immediately uncovered several hundred critical misconfiguration, many of which automatically sticks.

在此，我想簡要討論一下第四季幾個重要的客戶成功案例。我們持續看到來自新客戶的強勁需求，其中一個例子是一家醫療保健服務機構，該機構在進行多雲遷移期間進行風險評估，我們意識到原生工具不足以保護他們的資料。因此，我們啟動了 DSPM RFP 流程，最終選擇了 Varonis，因為我們立即發現了數百個關鍵配置錯誤，其中許多錯誤會自動保留。

We also identify over 900,000 exposed PII records and executive strategy materials for only simplicity, advanced and unified interface, automatic remediation of decisive against competitors and the ultimate purchase with NDVR for hybrid environments, Copilot, AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud Platform. Also, UNIX and LINUX, as well as universal database connector.

我們還識別出超過 90 萬筆暴露的 PII 記錄和高階主管策略材料，僅用於簡化、先進和統一的介面、自動修復針對競爭對手的決定性措施，以及最終透過 NDVR 在混合環境、Copilot、AWS、Azure 和 Google Cloud Platform 上進行購買。此外，也支援 UNIX 和 LINUX，以及通用資料庫連接器。

In addition to strong new customer momentum, we continue to see existing customers realizing the benefits of SaaS. One example was a hospital system of 45,000 employees that originally bought Varonis to remediate overexposure of on-plan HIPAA data as they began the cloud migration process, they notice gaps in the ability of native tools to remediate overexposure and label data at sale. During our cloud risk assessment, we discovered over 0.5 million instances of Pipa and PII data open to everyone in the organization. our ability to identify and remediate these exposures led this customer to convert to Varonis SaaS with MVDR for hybrid environments, Copilot and data life cycle automation for Windows.

除了強勁的新客戶成長動能外，我們還看到現有客戶不斷認識到 SaaS 的好處。例如，一家擁有 45,000 名員工的醫院系統最初購買 Varonis 是為了解決計劃內 HIPAA 資料過度暴露的問題。在開始雲端遷移過程時，他們注意到原生工具在解決過度暴露和在銷售時標記資料方面存在不足。在進行雲端風險評估期間，我們發現超過 50 萬個對組織內所有人開放的 PIPA 和 PII 資料實例。我們能夠識別並修復這些風險，促使該客戶最終選擇 Varonis SaaS，並利用其混合環境的 MVDR、Copilot 以及 Windows 資料生命週期自動化功能。

In summary, we are excited by the performance of our SaaS business, which is being driven by the automated value proposition that we deliver to our customers on top of our scalable architecture. We look forward to continuing our momentum and ending the year as a fully SaaS company, which will unlock many more benefits as we capture our growing market opportunity, and we believe in the path to achieving our 2027 financial targets.

總而言之，我們對 SaaS 業務的表現感到非常興奮，這要歸功於我們基於可擴展架構為客戶提供的自動化價值主張。我們期待繼續保持發展勢頭，並在年底前轉型為一家完全的 SaaS 公司，這將為我們抓住不斷增長的市場機會帶來更多好處，我們相信能夠實現 2027 年的財務目標。

With that, let me turn the call over to Guy. Guy?

那麼，我把電話交給蓋伊吧。蓋伊？

Thanks, Yaki. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. We are excited by the momentum we are seeing in our SaaS business, which now accounts for the vast majority of our ARR. SaaS is both the present and the future of our business and the new disclosures we are making today are intended to enable investors to evaluate the progress of both our SaaS business and the end of life of our self-hosted business.

謝謝你，Yaki。大家下午好。感謝您今天蒞臨。我們對 SaaS 業務的發展勢頭感到非常興奮，該業務目前占我們 ARR 的絕大部分。SaaS 既是我們的現在，也是我們的未來。我們今天披露的新資訊旨在讓投資者能夠評估我們 SaaS 業務的進展以及我們自託管業務的終結。

We plan to disclose these additional metrics for the duration of 2026, after which we will be 100% SaaS and we will revert to more traditional metrics. You can find more on this in our investor deck.

我們計劃在 2026 年期間揭露這些額外的指標，之後我們將 100% 轉型為 SaaS，並恢復使用更傳統的指標。您可以在我們的投資者資料中找到更多相關資訊。

In 2026, we will provide guidance for SaaS ARR, excluding conversions on a quarterly basis. Specifically, we will report the following on a quarterly basis: one, SaaS ARR; two, SaaS ARR, excluding conversion; three, conversions ARR; and four, non-SaaS ARR to help you understand how much conversion opportunity remains available. On an annual basis, we will disclose and also provide guidance for: one, SaaS ARR; and two, SaaS ARR excluding conversion.

2026 年，我們將按季度提供 SaaS ARR 指導，不包括轉換率。具體來說，我們將按季度報告以下內容：一、SaaS ARR；二、SaaS ARR（不包括轉換）；三、轉換 ARR；四、非 SaaS ARR，以幫助您了解還有多少轉換機會可用。我們將按年度揭露並提供以下方面的指導：一、SaaS ARR；二、不包括轉換率的 SaaS ARR。

We will also continue to report subscription customer count and SaaS dollar-based net retention on an annual basis. Our intention is to provide you with the tools to understand the various drivers to our business and to illustrate how we believe our SaaS business can continue to grow at very healthy levels in 2026 and beyond. In the fourth quarter, SaaS ARR was $638.5 million or 86% of total ARR and SaaS ARR increased 32% year over year when excluding the impact of conversions.

我們將繼續按年度報告訂閱客戶數量和基於 SaaS 美元的淨留存率。我們的目的是為您提供了解我們業務各種驅動因素​​的工具，並說明我們相信我們的 SaaS 業務如何在 2026 年及以後繼續保持非常健康的成長水平。第四季度，SaaS ARR 為 6.385 億美元，佔總 ARR 的 86%；若不計轉換率的影響，SaaS ARR 年成長 32%。

We are proud of our record number of ARR conversions in Q4, which totaled approximately $65 million, including the uplift. We believe that this result was driven by our lessons learned in Q3 and our decision to end of life our self-hosted platform. At the end of Q4, we had approximately $105 million of non-SaaS ARR remaining.

我們為第四季度創紀錄的 ARR 轉換率感到自豪，總額約為 6500 萬美元，其中包括增值部分。我們認為，這一結果是由我們在第三季度學到的教訓以及我們決定終止自託管平台的生命週期所促成的。第四季末，我們剩餘的非 SaaS ARR 約為 1.05 億美元。

In 2025, ARR from new customers was approximately $80 million. We ended the year with approximately 6,400 subscription customers, which grew 14% year over year. Our dollar-based net retention rate for SaaS customers was 110% at the end of 2025. To be clear, this metric only includes customers that were SaaS customers in the prior year and, therefore, is reflective of the organic expansion of ARR within our SaaS customer base. We believe that this metric can trend higher over time as we put more focus on the upsell motion with our SaaS customers.

2025 年，來自新客戶的年度經常性收入約為 8,000 萬美元。截至年底，我們的訂閱用戶約為 6,400 人，年增 14%。截至 2025 年底，我們 SaaS 客戶的美元淨留存率為 110%。需要明確的是，該指標僅包括上一年是 SaaS 客戶的客戶，因此反映了我們 SaaS 客戶群中 ARR 的自然成長。我們相信，隨著我們更加重視 SaaS 客戶的追加銷售，這項指標會隨著時間的推移而上升。

Our renewal rate for the year ending December 31, 2025, continue to be over 90%. Although our renewal activity from our non-SaaS customers was slightly below our historical levels, it was better than what we experienced in the third quarter. Our renewal rate disclosure going forward will be the SaaS renewal rate. This metric aligns with our new business model and how we view the business.

截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日止年度，我們的續約率持續維持在 90% 以上。儘管我們非 SaaS 客戶的續訂活動略低於歷史水平，但比第三季的情況要好。我們今後揭露的續訂率將採用SaaS續訂率。這項指標與我們新的商業模式以及我們對業務的看法相符。

Now I'd like to recap our Q4 results in more detail. In the fourth quarter, ARR was $745.4 million, increasing 16% year over year. In 2025, we generated $131.9 million of free cash flow, up from $108.5 million in the same period last year. In the fourth quarter, total revenues was $173.4 million, up 9% year over year. SaaS revenues were $142.3 million. Term license subscription revenues were $21 million, and maintenance and services revenues were $10.1 million.

現在我想更詳細地回顧一下我們第四季的業績。第四季度，年度經常性收入為 7.454 億美元，年增 16%。2025年，我們產生了1.319億美元的自由現金流，高於去年同期的1.085億美元。第四季總營收為 1.734 億美元，年增 9%。SaaS收入為1.423億美元。期限許可訂閱收入為 2,100 萬美元，維護和服務收入為 1,010 萬美元。

Moving down to the income statement, I'll be discussing non-GAAP results going forward. Gross profit for the fourth quarter was $138.7 million (sic - see press release, "$136.8 million"), representing a gross margin of 80%, compared to 84.4% in the fourth quarter of 2024. Our gross margin continues to be healthy and in line with our long-term targets at our Investor Day.

接下來，我將討論損益表中的非GAAP績效。第四季毛利為 1.387 億美元（原文如此 - 請參閱新聞稿，「1.368 億美元」），毛利率為 80%，而 2024 年第四季的毛利率為 84.4%。在投資人日上，我們表示毛利率依然保持健康，符合我們的長期目標。

Operating expenses in the fourth quarter totaled $134.1 million (sic - see press release, "$167.1"). As a result, fourth quarter operating income was $4.6 million or an operating margin of 2.6%. This compares to an operating income of $15.3 million or an operating margin of 9.7% in the same period last year.

第四季營運支出總計 1.341 億美元（原文如此 - 請參閱新聞稿，「1.671 億美元」）。因此，第四季營業收入為 460 萬美元，營業利潤率為 2.6%。相較之下，去年同期營業收入為 1,530 萬美元，營業利益率為 9.7%。

Fourth quarter ARR contribution margin was 15.9%, and down from 16.6% last year. If our non-SaaS business would have renewed at historical levels this year, our contribution margin would have shown a significant improvement versus 2024.

第四季年度經常性收入貢獻率（ARR）為 15.9%，低於去年同期的 16.6%。如果我們的非 SaaS 業務今年能夠恢復到歷史水平，那麼與 2024 年相比，我們的貢獻利潤率將會顯著提高。

In 2026, we expect a lower ARR contribution margin and lower free cash flow due to the impact of the end-of-life announcement. While this announcement negatively impacts 2026 ARR contribution margin and free cash flow by $30 million to $50 million based on our guidance, we believe it will allow us to show a healthier financial profile beginning in 2027 due to the removal of our lower renewal self-hosted customer base.

2026 年，由於產品生命週期結束公告的影響，我們預期 ARR 貢獻率和自由現金流將下降。根據我們的預期，雖然這項公告將對 2026 年 ARR 貢獻利潤率和自由現金流產生 3000 萬至 5000 萬美元的負面影響，但我們相信，由於剔除了續約率較低的自託管客戶群，這將使我們能夠從 2027 年開始展現出更健康的財務狀況。

During the quarter, we had financial income of approximately $9.6 million, driven primarily by interest income on our cash deposits and investments in marketable securities. Net income for the fourth quarter of 2025 was $11.1 million or net income of $0.08 per diluted share compared to net income of $23.9 million or net income of $0.18 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2024. This is based on 133.3 million diluted shares outstanding and 135.1 million diluted shares outstanding for Q4 2025 and Q4 2024, respectively.

本季度，我們的財務收入約為 960 萬美元，主要來自現金存款和有價證券投資的利息收入。2025 年第四季淨收入為 1,110 萬美元，即每股攤薄淨收入 0.08 美元，而 2024 年第四季淨收入為 2,390 萬美元，即每股攤薄淨收入 0.18 美元。這是基於 2025 年第四季 1.33 億股稀釋後流通股和 2024 年第四季 1.351 億股稀釋後流通股計算得出的。

As of December 31, 2025, we had $1.1 billion in cash, cash equivalents, short-term deposits and marketable securities. For the 12 months ended December 31, 2025, we generated $147.4 million of cash from operations compared to $115.2 million generated in the same period last year. And CapEx was $15.5 million compared to $6.7 million in the same period last year. During the fourth quarter, we repurchased 448,439 shares at an average purchase price of $33.45 for a total of $15 million.

截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，我們擁有 11 億美元的現金、現金等價物、短期存款和有價證券。截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日的 12 個月內，我們從經營活動中產生了 1.474 億美元的現金，而去年同期產生的現金為 1.152 億美元。資本支出為 1550 萬美元，而去年同期為 670 萬美元。第四季度，我們以平均每股 33.45 美元的價格回購了 448,439 股股票，總計 1500 萬美元。

I will now briefly recap our full year 2025 results. Total revenues increased 13% to $623.5 million. Our full year operating margin was negative 0.6% compared to 2.9% for 2024.

接下來我將簡單回顧我們2025年全年的業績。總營收成長13%，達到6.235億美元。我們全年的營業利益率為負0.6%，而2024年預計為2.9%。

Turning now to our initial 2026 guidance. Apart from conversions, which we included a wide range to account for a pessimistic and optimistic scenario, our guidance was set using the same philosophy that we have used historically. As a reminder, our new KPI for this year is SaaS ARR growth, excluding conversions, which reflects our ability to add new SaaS customers and also expand with existing ones as this will be the primary growth driver of our business in the years ahead.

現在來看看我們最初的 2026 年預測。除了匯率轉換（我們納入了廣泛的範圍以應對悲觀和樂觀的情況）之外，我們的指導方針是按照我們歷史上一直使用的相同理念制定的。再次提醒大家，我們今年的新 KPI 是 SaaS ARR 成長（不包括轉換率），這反映了我們增加新 SaaS 客戶以及拓展現有客戶的能力，因為這將是我們未來幾年業務成長的主要驅動力。

In 2026, we will provide quarterly SaaS ARR, excluding conversion guidance for this year only. We are doing this because of the difficulty in modeling the year-over-year growth rate due to the impact of conversions in 2025 and 2026. We will also provide a bridge to a quarterly total SaaS ARR in our investor deck, which assumes zero conversions for the upcoming quarter.

2026 年，我們將提供季度 SaaS ARR，但不包括今年的轉換率指引。我們這樣做是因為 2025 年和 2026 年的轉化率影響導致難以對逐年增長率進行建模。我們還將在投資者簡報中提供季度 SaaS 總 ARR 的過渡數據，該數據假設下一季的轉換率為零。

For the full year 2026, we will provide annual guidance for both SaaS ARR, excluding conversions and total SaaS ARR. We have provided a wide range of outcomes for the conversions of our non-SaaS ARR to staff ARR within our guidance framework in order to bridge that the RR excluding conversions, the SaaS ARR for modeling purposes. We believe this range of conversions captures a pessimistic and optimistic scenario with the midpoint representing our base case for 2026. From a modeling perspective, we have assumed no uplift for these conversions. The largest cohort of customers that we don't expect to convert to SaaS are federal and state government customers.

對於 2026 年全年，我們將提供 SaaS ARR（不包括轉換）和 SaaS ARR 總值的年度指引。為了彌合不計轉換的 RR 與用於建模目的的 SaaS ARR 之間的差距，我們在指導框架內提供了將非 SaaS ARR 轉換為員工 ARR 的各種結果。我們認為，此轉換率範圍涵蓋了悲觀和樂觀兩種情況，其中中間值代表了我們對 2026 年的基本預測。從建模的角度來看，我們假設這些轉換不會帶來任何提升。我們預計不會轉化為 SaaS 的最大客戶群是聯邦和州政府客戶。

As a reminder, we expect this to have a $30 million to $50 million headwind and the free cash flow and ARR contribution margin in 2026. For more information, please see our earnings deck on our Investor Relations website, which includes a more detailed breakdown of our financial guidance.

提醒一下，我們預計這將帶來 3,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元的不利影響，並影響 2026 年的自由現金流和 ARR 貢獻利潤率。如需了解更多信息，請訪問我們的投資者關係網站查看我們的盈利報告，其中包含我們財務預測的更詳細分析。

For the first quarter of 2026, we expect SaaS ARR growth of 27% to 28%, excluding conversions; total revenues of $164 million to $166 million, representing growth of 20% to 22%; non-GAAP operating loss of negative $11 million to negative $10 million; and non-GAAP net loss per basic and diluted share in the range of $0.06 to $0.05. This assumes $118 million basic and diluted shares outstanding.

我們預計2026年第一季SaaS年度經常性收入（ARR）成長27%至28%（不計轉換收入）；總營收為1.64億美元至1.66億美元，年增20%至22%；非GAAP營業虧損為1,100萬美元至1,000萬美元；以上預測以流通股數量為1.18億股（基本及攤薄後）。

For the full year 2026, we expect total SaaS ARR of $805 million to $840 million representing growth of 26% to 32%. This represents SaaS ARR growth of 18% to 20%, excluding conversions. Free cash flow of $100 million to $105 million.

我們預計 2026 年全年 SaaS ARR 總營收將達到 8.05 億至 8.4 億美元，年增 26% 至 32%。這代表 SaaS ARR 成長了 18% 至 20%（不包括轉換率）。自由現金流為1億美元至1.05億美元。

Total revenues of $722 million to $730 million, representing growth of 16% to 17%. Non-GAAP operating income of breakeven to $4 million; non-GAAP net income per diluted share in the range of $0.06 to $0.10. This assumes 134.2 million diluted shares outstanding.

總營收為 7.22 億美元至 7.3 億美元，成長 16% 至 17%。非GAAP營業收入損益平衡點至400萬美元；非GAAP每股稀釋淨收益在0.06美元至0.10美元之間。假設攤薄後流通股數為1.342億股。

In summary, we are continuing to see momentum across our SaaS business. This demand is coming from both new customers and existing SaaS customers looking to secure more of their data footprint with Varonis. We remain focused on executing on the many tailwinds we see ahead. With that, we would be happy to take questions. Operator?

總而言之，我們的 SaaS 業務持續保持成長動能。這種需求既來自希望透過 Varonis 保護更多資料足蹟的新客戶，也來自希望透過 Varonis 保護更多資料足跡的現有 SaaS 客戶。我們將繼續專注於掌握未來諸多有利因素。那麼，我們很樂意回答大家的問題。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Matthew Hedberg, RBC Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）Matthew Hedberg，RBC Capital Markets。

Thanks for all the additional disclosures. I think it will be really helpful when we think about the stand-alone SaaS business on a go-forward basis. I think we're getting some inbound from some investors. And I think some of the confusion is around kind of the growth rate assumptions for this year. You're guiding for 18% to 20% SaaS ARR growth ex conversions.

感謝您提供的所有補充資訊。我認為，當我們展望未來獨立 SaaS 業務的發展時，這將非常有幫助。我認為我們正在收到一些投資者的注資。我認為部分困惑在於今年成長率的假設。你們預計 SaaS ARR 成長（不包括轉換率）將達到 18% 至 20%。

Yet if you look at sort of just like your exit rate SaaS ARR for '26 relative to kind of like the $745 million that you ended '25 with, it looks like closer to 10% growth. So I know there's some headwinds to conversions here and some churn assumptions. But maybe could you just help sort of like, again, sort of like square off like the 10% kind of total ARR guide with how optimistic you are on the SaaS --

但是，如果你看一下 2026 年的 SaaS ARR 退出率，相對於 2025 年底的 7.45 億美元，看起來成長幅度接近 10%。所以我知道轉換率方面存在一些不利因素，也存在一些客戶流失率的假設。但或許您能不能再幫我分析一下，比如，再次強調一下您對SaaS的樂觀程度，比如，把10%的ARR（年度經常性收入）目標與您對SaaS的樂觀程度進行對比？--

Thanks, Matt, for the question. I think we had many conversations with investors throughout the last several months, and they've all asked for the SaaS growth ex conversions to really understand the true growth of the business and really we want to try and help everyone understand all of this better. So we're providing today more disclosures around our business to help you understand what drives our business in the present and in the future.

謝謝馬特的提問。我認為在過去的幾個月裡，我們與投資者進行了多次對話，他們都要求我們提供扣除轉換率後的 SaaS 成長數據，以便真正了解業務的真實成長情況，我們也確實想努力幫助大家更好地理解這一切。因此，今天我們將提供更多關於我們業務的資訊揭露，以幫助您了解我們業務在現在和未來的驅動力。

Now the SaaS ARR, excluding conversions, is really the most important KPI which we're going to focus really on the ability to sign new customers and expand existing SaaS customers, and that's what's going to drive the business in 2026, 2027 and beyond. When we sit here today, we feel very good about guiding this growth rate of 18% to 20%, which really calls for $120 million of net new organic SaaS ARR versus the $109.5 million that we had in 2025, and that's our starting point.

現在，不包括轉換率的 SaaS ARR 才是最重要的 KPI，我們將重點放在如何吸引新客戶並拓展現有 SaaS 客戶，這將推動公司在 2026 年、2027 年及以後的發展。今天，我們對實現 18% 至 20% 的成長率感到非常滿意，這意味著 2025 年的淨新增有機 SaaS ARR 將達到 1.2 億美元，而我們 2025 年的淨新增有機 SaaS ARR 為 1.095 億美元，這就是我們的起點。

So we're still keeping the same philosophy of guidance. This is our starting point. And we know what we need to do in order to continue throughout the year and increase that number going forward.

所以我們仍然堅持同樣的指導理念。這是我們的出發點。我們知道為了在今年繼續維持並提高這個數字，我們需要做什麼。

So as a starting point, looking at the ARR would be extremely misleading because it takes into account the conversions, which are really the rear view mirror of this company. If you want to focus on the present and the future, the right thing to look at is SaaS ARR excluding conversion, and as a starting point with the same guidance philosophy, we're at $120 million versus $109.5 million in 2025.

因此，以 ARR 作為起點是非常誤導的，因為它考慮了轉換率，而轉換率實際上只是這家公司的後視鏡。如果你想專注於現在和未來，那麼你應該關注的是 SaaS ARR（不包括轉換率），並且以同樣的指導理念為起點，我們目前的 ARR 為 1.2 億美元，而 2025 年的目標為 1.095 億美元。

Saket Kalia, Barclays.

薩克特·卡利亞，巴克萊銀行。

Great. Echo the point earlier just on -- I appreciate the additional disclosure. I think it's I think it's really helpful. And to your point, really focuses on kind of what the future of the business will look like, right? That's fast part.

偉大的。我再次重申剛才的觀點——感謝您提供的補充資訊。我覺得這真的很有幫助。正如你所說，這確實著重探討了企業未來的發展方向，對吧？這是快節奏的部分。

And so for that reason, I just want to dig into that 18% to 20% growth excluding conversions, Guy, maybe the question is for you. Can we just talk about how much of that you think comes from new customers versus existing? And again, SaaS is the future, but just to make sure we're all squared away, can you touch on whether there's going to be any remnants of on-prem ARR at the end of 2016 as well?

所以，正因如此，我想深入探討這18%到20%的成長（不包括轉換率），蓋伊，也許這個問題應該要問你。我們能不能討論一下，你認為這些收入有多少是來自新客戶，又有多少來自現有客戶？再次強調，SaaS 是未來，但為了確保我們理解正確，您能否談談 2016 年底是否還會保留一些本地部署的 ARR 模式？

So I'll start with the last part of your question. Our assumption is that we won't have any non-SaaS ARR at the end of the year. So basically, SaaS ARR at the end of 2026 is going to be equal ARR. For this year, if you want to focus on what is right for the business, what is driving the business in the present and in the future, the right metric to look at is SaaS ARR, excluding conversion.

那我就先回答你問題的最後一部分吧。我們預計到年底將沒有任何非 SaaS 年度經常性收入 (ARR)。所以基本上，到 2026 年底，SaaS 的 ARR 將與 ARR 持平。今年，如果你想專注於對企業有利的事情，以及推動企業當前和未來發展的因素，那麼你應該關注的正確指標是 SaaS ARR（不包括轉換率）。

Now when you look at the performance in 2025, we had SaaS NRR of 110%, and we had approximately $18 million of new customers' ARR. When you look at our expectation going forward, we believe that with the fact that reps won't have to focus on the conversions, the way they focus on conversions in 2025, they can go back to selling to new customers and selling to existing customers, and we have so much more to sell.

現在，當我們展望 2025 年的業績時，我們的 SaaS NRR 達到了 110%，並且我們獲得了約 1800 萬美元的新客戶 ARR。展望未來，我們相信，到 2025 年，銷售代表不必再像以前那樣專注於轉換率，他們可以重新專注於向新客戶和現有客戶銷售產品，而我們有更多的產品可以銷售。

So our expectation is that the SaaS NRR can increase. And obviously, with the offering that we have, we can increase our sales to new customers. So as a starting point, I'm going back to that 18% to 20%. It's a good starting point that we feel very confident with where we sit here today and obviously, believe that we can increase that throughout the year.

因此，我們預期 SaaS 的淨經常性收入 (NRR) 將會成長。顯然，憑藉我們現有的產品和服務，我們可以增加對新客戶的銷售。所以，作為起點，我決定回到 18% 到 20% 這個數字。這是一個好的開端，我們對目前所處的位置非常有信心，而且顯然相信我們可以在今年內取得更大的進步。

Brian Essex, JPMorgan.

Brian Essex，摩根大通。

Thank you from me as well for all the additional color. I guess, I want to dig in a little bit to current period results, the 110% net dollar retention. How does that compare with prior periods? And then maybe you can also help us understand how much has Copilot in AI-driven some of the demand? Do you have maybe an attach or an exposure rate you can provide for the SaaS business attributable to that demand in the quarter?

我也要感謝你增添的色彩。我想深入探討本期業績，即 110% 的淨美元留存率。與前期相比如何？那麼，您或許還可以幫助我們了解人工智慧在多大程度上推動了 Copilot 的需求？您能否提供本季由該需求引起的 SaaS 業務的附加率或曝光率？

So I'll take the first part of the question. When we look at the SaaS NRR, you have to remember that this only takes SaaS customers last year and compares what their ARR is a year later. So obviously, it's on a much larger base, and it's at 110, and we absolutely think that it was impacted with some headwind because reps had to focus their time on the conversions. Keep in mind that we had close to $190 million of conversions in 2025 alone. So that doesn't happen in itself.

那我先回答問題的第一部分。當我們查看 SaaS NRR 時，必須記住，這只考慮去年的 SaaS 客戶，並與他們一年後的 ARR 進行比較。顯然，它的基數要大得多，達到了 110，我們絕對認為它受到了一些不利因素的影響，因為代表們必須把時間集中在轉換上。請記住，光是 2025 年，我們的轉換額就接近 1.9 億美元。所以這種情況本身並不會發生。

The reps had to focus on those conversions. And when we think about NRR, when you only take SaaS customers and look at the progression, that is actually an indication of how we can grow within our SaaS customer base going forward, and we actually believe that, that number can improve.

銷售代表們必須專注於提高轉換率。當我們考慮 NRR 時，如果只考慮 SaaS 客戶並觀察其發展情況，這實際上表明了我們未來如何在 SaaS 客戶群中實現成長，而且我們確實相信，這個數字可以得到改善。

So again, when you look at kind of the mix between existing and new customers, I think that going forward, as we kind of went through the transition and there's not much of a non-SaaS ARR left, the reps can actually focus on acquiring new customers in a better way and can actually go back to the base and sell them additional products going forward.

所以，再看看現有客戶和新客戶之間的比例，我認為，隨著我們經歷了轉型，非 SaaS ARR 所剩無幾，銷售代表們可以更好地專注於獲取新客戶，並可以回到老客戶群體，在未來向他們銷售更多產品。

My Copilot definitely was just a big driver, but AI in general, is a big driver because everything that's related to AI, these agents are as good as risky as the data that you can access. And definitely, the item left the station and the ability to understand the identity and the data that it can access is everything. So it's not just the conversion and Copilot.

我的副駕駛功能當然是一個重要的驅動因素，但人工智慧整體來說是一個重要的驅動因素，因為所有與人工智慧相關的事物，這些代理商的風險程度都取決於你能存取的數據。可以肯定的是，該物品已經離開太空站，能否了解其身份以及它可以存取的數據至關重要。所以不僅僅是轉換和 Copilot 的問題。

The other thing that we saw in the fourth quarter is just a lot, a lot of success with everything that's related to our other cloud repositories in AWS and Azure and also the database activity monitoring good pipeline is starting to sell the product and everything that is happening with the acquisition of SlashNext. It's important to understand that AI not just from the agency is a big problem, but also from bad actors. So everything that's related to compromise -- to get compromised from trusted sources it's something that the SlashNext acquisition, the product called Interceptor is doing extremely well.

我們在第四季度看到的另一件事是，與我們在 AWS 和 Azure 中的其他雲端儲存庫相關的一切都取得了巨大的成功，資料庫活動監控良好的管道也開始銷售產品，以及收購 SlashNext 所帶來的一切。重要的是要明白，人工智慧不僅來自機構本身是一個大問題，來自不法分子也是一個大問題。所以，所有與洩漏有關的事情——從可信來源洩露資訊——SlashNext 收購的 Interceptor 產品在這方面做得非常好。

So definitely, in terms of the platform, we hit on all cylinders and also have a very good understanding the cohort of customers, as we explained before, that will not go to SaaS and with the 86% SaaS business. It's just at the end of it and the SaaS KPIs are extremely strong, and we are very, very happy where the platform is and how it will perform. And primarily, we believe that the whole AI revolution is a big tailwind to everything we on dose.

所以，就平台而言，我們無疑已經全面投入，並且對客戶群也有著非常深刻的了解，正如我們之前解釋的那樣，那些不會轉向 SaaS 的客戶群體，以及 86% 的 SaaS 業務。目前已接近尾聲，SaaS KPI 表現非常出色，我們對平台的現狀及其未來表現都非常滿意。而且最重要的是，我們相信整個人工智慧革命對我們所有業務來說都是一股強勁的順風。

Rob Owens, Piper Sandler.

羅布歐文斯，派珀桑德勒。

Great. I want to guess a little bit on go-to-market. I know there were some changes to the federal team back in Q3. Just curious as you entered the new fiscal year, any broader changes overall, where you are from a sales capacity perspective? And how you're feeling from a sales maturity perspective relative to the folks you have in those seats?

偉大的。我想對市場推廣策略做一些猜測。我知道第三季聯邦政府團隊進行了一些調整。我很好奇，在新財年開始之際，從銷售能力的角度來看，整體上是否有任何更廣泛的變化？從銷售成熟度的角度來看，你覺得自己與你手下那些銷售人員相比如何？

So there are two elements to that question that I want to address. One is in terms of the federal business, we're still focused on trying to sell. As you remember, our federal business is approximately 5% of total ARR, but we still see an opportunity there. We did make some adjustments in terms of our investments there. I will say that the second component that I want to address is the conversion.

所以，關於這個問題，我想談兩個面向。一方面，就聯邦業務而言，我們仍然專注於嘗試出售。如您所知，我們的聯邦業務約佔年度經常性收入總額的 5%，但我們仍然看到其中的機會。我們確實對我們在那裡的投資做出了一些調整。我想談的第二個面向是轉換。

The non-SaaS ARR, we're actually making a good portion of that federal business that will not convert. And that's why we gave a range of more of a bear case and an optimistic range which is a really wide range, that $50 million to $75 million that will convert in 2026.

非 SaaS 的 ARR，實際上我們賺取了很大一部分聯邦業務收入，但這些業務最終都無法轉換。因此，我們給出了一個較為悲觀的預測範圍和一個較為樂觀的預測範圍，樂觀預測的範圍非常寬泛，即 2026 年將有 5000 萬美元至 7500 萬美元轉化為實際價值。

So when you look at the element and what is impacting kind of the conversion number, the assumption that we have had is that many of the federal and state and government customers might not convert and that was baked in that number. And the expectation is that we can go and sell to new customers in that federal space, but some of them will not move to SaaS with us.

因此，當我們查看影響轉換率的因素時，我們一直假設許多聯邦、州和政府客戶可能不會轉化，而這一點已經包含在轉換率中了。我們期望能夠向聯邦政府領域的新客戶銷售產品，但其中一些客戶不會和我們一起轉向 SaaS 模式。

But in terms of the coverage and capacity, we believe with the new products now building a good pipeline and that will kick in and we can have we believe that -- we can have strong productivity gains. We have now the sales motions that are touching to the budget in everything that related to social engineering and business email compromise in the e-mail space, and we have some others in the API and the broader extension, very good assets there, data activity monitoring most of the installed base of the incumbent wants to replace them. This is another one for us, we think the expansion of the data security, including the MVDR and now the AllTrue acquisition that really just finalizing the role vision to be end-to-end in the AI world. So we believe and we're starting to see that we will see a lot of budgets that are related to the iPhone security and AI.

但就覆蓋範圍和產能而言，我們相信隨著新產品的推出，我們正在建立良好的產品線，這將發揮作用，我們相信——我們可以實現強勁的生產力提升。我們現在在電子郵件領域，針對社交工程和商業電子郵件入侵等相關事宜，制定了與預算相關的銷售策略；此外，我們在 API 和更廣泛的擴展方面也有一些其他策略，這些都是非常好的資產，例如數據活動監控。大多數現有客戶的安裝基礎都希望被取代。對我們來說，這是另一個里程碑，我們認為資料安全的擴展，包括 MVDR 以及現在的 AllTrue 收購，真正實現了我們在人工智慧領域端到端的角色願景。所以我們相信，而且我們也開始看到，我們將會看到很多與 iPhone 安全和人工智慧相關的預算。

We really believe that we can be the foundation for acceleration in adoption of secure AI in -- within organizations. So we're really happy with where we are and the way that the pipeline is developing. And we think that in the next few quarters, we are going to reward.

我們堅信，我們可以成為加速組織內部採用安全人工智慧的基礎。所以我們對目前的狀況以及管線的發展方向都非常滿意。我們認為在接下來的幾個季度裡，我們會給予獎勵。

Joshua Tilton, Wolfe Research.

Joshua Tilton，沃爾夫研究公司。

I have two, one as a follow-up, one is not. I'll start with the nonfollow-up one. And that's -- when we look at kind of the benefit to SaaS from converting the on-premise base relative to kind of the dollars that you lost in on-premise business last year, it kind of feels that you -- the uplift that you were getting was below that 26% -- 25%-ish blended rate that you've been communicating to us. Is there any way to help us understand like what you are actually getting from a conversion at uplift or what you're getting on uplift at a conversion and what we should expect that rate to be if you can sustain that for next year? And then I have a follow-up.

我有兩個，一個是後續問題，另一個不是。我先從沒有後續跟進的那一個說起。當我們審視將本地部署用戶轉化為 SaaS 所帶來的收益，以及去年在本地部署業務中損失的資金時，感覺你們獲得的收益低於你們一直向我們傳達的 26% 到 25% 左右的綜合增長率。有沒有辦法幫助我們了解，例如，您在提升轉換率方面實際獲得了多少收益，或者您在提升轉換率方面獲得了多少收益，以及如果您能保持這種轉換率到明年，我們應該預期該轉換率是多少？然後我還有一個後續問題。

So I want to focus the analysts and the investors on what's important. And what's important is SaaS growth ex conversions. We've been asked many times by investors recently to try and break it out and show what would be the growth rate because if you think about it, by the end of 2026, there will be -- the assumption is that there will be no non-SaaS ARR list. So the question that you're asking actually relates to 2026 only.

所以我想讓分析師和投資人把注意力集中在真正重要的事情上。而SaaS成長（不含轉換率）才是最重要的。最近很多投資人都要求我們嘗試將其拆分出來，並展示成長率是多少，因為如果你仔細想想，到 2026 年底，就會沒有非 SaaS ARR 清單了。所以你提出的問題其實只與 2026 年有關。

Our assumption for 2026 is that from a modeling perspective, is that the conversions will come in flat. The intention is the breakdown on a quarterly basis, what is the SaaS growth ex conversion. So every single investor can understand what is the business -- how the business is performing, present and what is the driver for the business going forward.

從建模的角度來看，我們對 2026 年的假設是，轉換率將保持穩定。目的是按季度細分，分析 SaaS 成長（不包括轉換率）的情況。這樣，每位投資人都能了解這項企業的業務狀況──企業的經營狀況、現狀以及未來發展的驅動力。

To us, the conversions are obviously an important factor, but they're not the driver. They are the rearview mirror that every investor, obviously, we care about getting as many customers over to SaaS as we can, but that's not the driver of the business. The driver of the business is SaaS, ARR ex conversions. And that's why we spent a lot of time in order to break it out in what we hope is a very simplistic way for investors to be able to understand what is the growth rate of SaaS ARR ex conversions.

對我們來說，轉換率顯然是一個重要因素，但它並不是決定性因素。顯然，對於每個投資者來說，它們就像一面後視鏡，我們關心的是盡可能地將客戶轉移到 SaaS 領域，但這並不是業務的驅動力。業務驅動因素是 SaaS，ARR 不包括轉換率。因此，我們花費了大量時間，希望以非常簡單的方式將其分解出來，以便投資者能夠理解 SaaS ARR（不包括轉換率）的成長率。

We gave a range of what the expectation of the conversion is. And remember, at the end of Q3, we got asked every single investor asked us. What is the expectation to get the conversions over.

我們給出了預期轉換率的範圍。請記住，在第三季末，我們回答了每位投資者提出的問題。預期轉換率會達到什麼水準？

We talked about $180 million -- approximately $180 million of non-SaaS ARR that are up for renewal, and we said that about 1/3 of them were up renewal in Q4. And we were able to get in Q4, including the uplift, approximately $65 million. So the non-SaaS ARR left has come down significantly. It's now approximately $105 million going into 2026. We're giving this range of $50 million to $75 million but our desire and the way management is focused in terms of the forward-looking health of the business is SaaS ARR, excluding conversions.

我們談到了 1.8 億美元——大約 1.8 億美元的非 SaaS ARR 即將續約，我們說其中大約有 1/3 的 ARR 將在第四季度續約。第四季度，包括成長在內，我們獲得了約 6,500 萬美元的收入。因此，非SaaS ARR（年度經常性收入）大幅下降。預計到 2026 年，這一數字約為 1.05 億美元。我們給出的預期範圍是 5000 萬美元到 7500 萬美元，但我們的願望以及管理層對公司未來健康狀況的關注點是 SaaS ARR（不包括轉換率）。

Not critical to understand that just the massive expansion we did in the platform, this is what will grow the business, the new licenses. This is not -- these are not the uplift. Selling new licenses and adding more value, covering more data, securing our customers end to end from a data breach, make sure that they can use the eye in the right way, make sure that they don't have a compliance fine and doing everything on an architecture with tremendous scale. You need to understand that the amount of data that we need to crunch in order to provide this value is massive, and this is -- the whole growth is driven by just the new licenses.

理解這一點並不重要，重要的是我們在平台上進行的大規模擴張，這將推動業務成長，帶來新的許可證。這不是——這些不是提升。銷售新許可證並增加更多價值，覆蓋更多數據，從頭到尾保護我們的客戶免受數據洩露，確保他們能夠以正確的方式使用 Eye，確保他們不會受到合規罰款，並且所有這一切都在一個具有巨大規模的架構上進行。你需要明白，為了提供這種價值，我們需要處理的資料量非常龐大，而整個成長完全是由新許可證推動的。

Jason Ader, William Blair.

傑森·阿德，威廉·布萊爾。

Guy, can you help us understand the $30 million to $50 million headwind to contribution margin and free cash flow in 2026? I'm not sure I quite got that.

Guy，你能幫我們理解2026年貢獻毛利和自由現金流將面臨的3000萬至5000萬美元的不利影響嗎？我不太明白。

Yes. So first of all, I want to say that there's really no change from a philosophy perspective of how we are trying to run the business. We believe the business should grow on the top line in healthy levels, but also generate better margins and more meaningful cash flow over time. I think that's been the way we ran the business for many, many years, and there's really no change in the way we're thinking about that going forward.

是的。首先，我想說的是，從經營理念的角度來看，我們經營業務的方式並沒有改變。我們相信，公司營收不僅會健康成長，而且隨著時間的推移，還能產生更高的利潤率和更有意義的現金流。我認為多年來我們一直都是這樣經營業務的，而且我們未來在這方面的想法也不會有任何改變。

We're facing that $30 million to $50 million headwind from the end-of-life announcement in 2026. But what's important to note is that, one, the announcement of end-of-life actually generated a sense of urgency for customers to move. And we did see that in Q4.

由於 2026 年宣布產品生命週期結束，我們將面臨 3,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元的損失。但值得注意的是，第一，產品生命週期結束的公告實際上為客戶帶來了一種緊迫感，促使他們盡快遷移。我們在第四季度確實看到了這一點。

The second thing that's important to note, that we would have had a headwind from the remaining self-hosted customers having a lower renewal rate that would have -- that would have really masked the strength of our SaaS business. And you can see that in the H2 2025 results and also in the 2026 guidance. And the third thing to keep in mind, is that if we didn't have the end-of-life announcement that cost of maintaining the same set of customers would have increased exponentially over time.

第二點要注意的是，剩餘的自託管客戶的續約率較低，這會為我們帶來不利影響，從而掩蓋我們 SaaS 業務的實力。這一點可以從 2025 年下半年業績以及 2026 年業績指引看出。第三點要記住的是，如果我們沒有發布產品生命週期結束的公告，那麼維護同一批客戶的成本將會隨著時間的推移而呈指數級增長。

So when we look at this $30 million to $50 million headwind, that's really with a lower expected renewal rate for the non-SaaS business. But I think we've proven over time our ability to show better margins and cash flow, and we believe in our ability to continue to do that going forward. So when we think about the 2027 target, we really completed the transition two years ahead of schedule. But as we sit here today, we see a path to achieving the 2027 targets laid out in the Investor Day. So we feel confident with that.

因此，當我們看到這 3,000 萬至 5,000 萬美元的不利因素時，實際上是由於非 SaaS 業務的預期續約率較低所致。但我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們已經證明了我們有能力獲得更高的利潤率和現金流，我們相信我們有能力在未來繼續做到這一點。所以當我們考慮 2027 年的目標時，我們實際上提前兩年完成了過渡。但就目前而言，我們看到了實現投資者日上提出的 2027 年目標的途徑。所以我們對這一點很有信心。

Shaul Eyal, TD Cowen.

Shaul Eyal，TD Cowen。

Yaki and Guy, thanks for the new disclosures. Yaki, you might have touched on that earlier, but want to go back to that topic jure in recent weeks, AI eating software. Maybe not so much in the security category, but definitely, we're seeing a guilty cyber-related names in recent days, so fast to look at today's performance.

Yaki 和 Guy，感謝你們披露的新資訊。Yaki，你可能之前已經提到過這一點，但最近幾週我想再回到這個主題，人工智慧飲食軟體。或許在安全領域並非如此，但近幾天來，我們確實看到了一些與網路安全相關的可疑公司，所以要快速查看今天的業績。

Can you offer us any investors, your viewpoint as to whether AI is augmenting security or whether there's room for concerns based on potential market disruption? And maybe also just a word about your current relations with Microsoft over the past quarter.

您能否向各位投資人分享您對人工智慧是否能增強安全性的看法，或者是否有因潛在的市場動盪而引發的擔憂？或許還可以簡單談談您過去一個季度與微軟的關係。

I think that in terms of the market itself, what -- and primarily our market, as I said before, AI is as good as risky as the data that it can access and you are going to see velocity that we have never seen before and also for bad actors, the ability just to get in to do everything that's related to the initial fraud to get identity, session tokens and so forth is going to grow. The ability to be a very sophisticated advanced consistent threat that don't need to call home, can talk with local LLM and agents talking to agents and also the just the human state. I think that definitely AI has tremendous impact on development cycles, but we believe that still complicated architecture and deep tech, we need a lot and lot of expertise -- and this is what we have and believe that even in this environment, we have a very strong moat. And we also believe that in order for organization to adapt AI, they need to make sure that they understand what the data can access and if it's behaved correctly, this is the core competency of Varonis and you need to do it in a tremendous scale.

我認為就市場本身而言，尤其是就我們的市場而言，正如我之前所說，人工智慧的優劣取決於它能夠訪問的數據，而且你會看到前所未有的發展速度，同時對於不法分子來說，他們獲取身份、會話令牌等資訊進行初始欺詐的能力也會不斷增強。能夠成為非常複雜、先進的持續威脅，無需聯繫總部，即可與當地的LLM和特工交談，甚至可以與人類國家進行交流。我認為人工智慧肯定會對開發週期產生巨大的影響，但我們相信，對於複雜的架構和深奧的技術，我們需要大量的專業知識——而這正是我們所擁有的，我們相信，即使在這種環境下，我們也擁有非常強大的護城河。我們也認為，為了讓組織適應人工智慧，他們需要確保了解資料可以存取什麼以及它的行為是否正確，這是 Varonis 的核心競爭力，而且需要大規模地實現。

And the second thing show that it needs to do and this related to the AllTrue acquisition, is you need to understand the actual agents of stemming from which tool, the intent of what they plan to do and also the pipeline, what data they are going to access. So in terms of AI, AllTrue starts from the beginning to make sure, okay, this is the tool, this is the intent and the pipeline, then massive force multiply with Varonis, what is the identity and the data that they can access and also then back from all to how agents talk to each other. So maybe an agent can ask another agent that has the permission to do something on easy has, and this is a big issue.

第二件事表明，它需要做的，這與 AllTrue 的收購有關，那就是你需要了解實際的代理人來自哪個工具，他們計劃做什麼，以及他們將要存取哪些資料。因此，就人工智慧而言，AllTrue 從頭開始，確保，好的，這是工具，這是意圖和流程，然後與 Varonis 進行大規模的倍增，確定他們可以訪問的身份和數據，然後再從所有這些方面反過來考慮代理之間的通信方式。所以，或許經紀人可以請求另一位有權限在 Easy Has 上執行某些操作的經紀人，而這是一個大問題。

Regarding Microsoft, we have just a lot of synergy with them, and we're building pipeline together and feel comfortable about the partnership. So we feel comfortable about the partnership, but -- the one thing that we are very excited about is just where the platform is. If you look at the year ago, starting from where taxol starting with Interceptor with SlashNext taking the database activity market with the classification, the user behavior analytics, we have a lot of success on the cloud data stores and these data stores has tremendous scale and Varonis is -- doing the Varonis platform extremely well there.

至於微軟，我們與他們有許多協同效應，我們正在共同建立管道，對這種合作關係感到很放心。所以我們對這種合作關係感到很放心，但是──我們最興奮的是這個平台的發展現狀。如果你回顧一年前，從紫杉醇公司開始，Interceptor 和 SlashNext 憑藉分類和用戶行為分析佔領了資料庫活動市場，我們在雲端資料儲存方面取得了巨大的成功，這些資料儲存具有巨大的規模，而 Varonis 在這方面做得非常出色。

And now everything that we are doing to the Agentic AI and we combine it with our core strength. So we are very excited where the platform is where the platform is and the value that you can provide in the marketplace.

現在，我們將我們對智慧人工智慧所做的一切與我們的核心優勢相結合。因此，我們對平台的現狀以及您可以在市場上提供的價值感到非常興奮。

Meta Marshall, Morgan Stanley.

Meta Marshall，摩根士丹利。

Great. Maybe building on that last answer that you gave. Just as you guys look at products that you can, now with more focus on kind of the core SaaS business, whether it's MDR, identity protection or database activity monitoring or the acquisition that you just announced, like what do you see as the biggest driver of upsells over the next year?

偉大的。或許可以基於你上次的回答來補充。就像你們現在更專注於核心 SaaS 業務一樣，無論是 MDR、身分保護、資料庫活動監控，還是你們剛剛宣布的收購，你們認為未來一年內追加銷售的最大驅動力是什麼？

I think that all of them. I think that all of them, and it's also -- we created this data security market. Now it was very natural expansion to go to other places. So the database activity monitoring is a big market with just incumbents that we can replace. Everything that's related to social engineering and business email compromise, this is a type of product that every organization needs and where attacks are starting today.

我認為他們都是。我認為所有這些，還有一點——我們創造了這個資料安全市場。現在，向其他地方擴張是非常自然的事情了。因此，資料庫活動監控是一個巨大的市場，而我們只能取代現有的供應商。所有與社會工程和商業電子郵件入侵相關的內容，都是每個組織需要的產品，也是當今攻擊的起點。

And we believe that in terms of multi-modality, the problem starting with trusted sources, and we have best solution for that. And if the organization in this stage, trying to use AI in order to survive in stride. And with all together with what we have is big force multipliers. So we're really excited about everything, and we're also excited about everything is integrated with everything else.

我們認為，就多模態而言，問題始於可信來源，而我們對此有最佳解決方案。如果一個組織處於這個階段，試圖利用人工智慧來順利生存下去。所有這些加起來，就形成了強大的力量倍增器。所以我們對所有事情都感到非常興奮，也對所有事情都能相互融合感到興奮。

Our next question is from Roger Boyd.

下一個問題來自羅傑·博伊德。

I know this is not the focus point going forward. But I wonder if you could just unpack the rebound you saw in 4Q conversion rates. And -- as you look forward, I think you said $105 million of remaining on-premise software with the expectation that $50 million to $75 million of that converts with uplift. When I back out Fed and SLED, my gut reaction is that's pretty optimistic view on conversions going forward.

我知道這並非未來工作的重點。但我很想知道您能否詳細分析一下第四季度轉換率的反彈情況。展望未來，我想您說過剩餘的本地部署軟體價值 1.05 億美元，預計其中 5000 萬至 7500 萬美元將透過升級轉化為實際收益。剔除聯準會和SLED之後，我的直覺是，這對未來的轉換率而言是一個相當樂觀的看法。

So maybe just talk about kind of your confidence over the remaining commercial customer base there. And in terms of timing, just any sense of how quickly you get in front of this or if you expect it to be maybe more back half weighted?

所以，或許可以談談你對剩餘商業客戶群的信心。至於時間安排方面，你覺得你能多快趕上這場比賽，或者你預計比賽的後半程會更靠後一些？

So let's start with the fact that we converted in Q4 approximately $65 million. That's a really large number. You can see that in comparison to any of the other quarters, it's 50% higher than Q2. It's close to 60% higher than Q3. I think part of it was absolutely driven by the fact that we had the end-of-life announcement.

首先，我們來看看我們在第四季度轉換了大約 6500 萬美元。那真是個很大的數字。你可以看到，與其他季度相比，它比第二季高出 50%。比第三季高出近 60%。我認為部分原因絕對是因為我們宣布了生命終點的消息。

That generated a sense of urgency with our customers and actually helped us get customers to convert. In terms of 2026, we put a bear case in an optimistic case, and that those are the two ranges. I would say that in terms of guidance, the $50 million to $75 million is not expected that our expectation is to be within that range. Our base case is kind of that midpoint. We do expect some of the customers from the federal and state government to convert.

這讓我們的客戶產生了緊迫感，並且實際上幫助我們促成了客戶的轉換。就 2026 年而言，我們設定了悲觀情景和樂觀情景，這兩個區間就是它們的範圍。就業績效指引而言，我認為5,000萬美元至7,500萬美元的預期並不在這個範圍內。我們的基本方案就介於兩者之間。我們預計部分來自聯邦政府和州政府的客戶會轉變觀念。

So it's not like we're writing off every single customer, but I would say that the focus from kind of a perspective of a vertical that will that would convert at lower rates, it is that federal business, but it's not an expectation that none of them will convert. So we feel very good with that $50 million to $75 million range. And as you can see, that range is wide because there are a lot of uncertainties, but we do feel confident with that range itself. So our base case scenario is at midpoint -- and I think we can do a really good job of getting those customers over.

所以並不是說我們要放棄每一個客戶，但我想說的是，從轉換率較低的垂直產業角度來看，重點是聯邦業務，但這並不意味著他們一個都不會轉換。所以我們對5000萬美元到7500萬美元這個範圍非常滿意。正如你所看到的，這個範圍很廣，因為有很多不確定因素，但我們對這個範圍本身還是有信心的。所以我們的基本情況是處於中間點——我認為我們可以很好地把這些客戶吸引過來。

Keep in mind, we got questions about the $180 million of SaaS ARR at the end of Q3, and so many of the investors wanted to get a number and wanted to get a range. And many of the investors that we talked to had an expectation that we won't get any, which we thought was a reasonable either. So I think when you look at the actual performance of Q4, the fact that we were able to convert such a large portion has to do with the end-of-life announcement and the urgency that, that generated within our customer base, and the expectation for 2026 is within those ranges of $50 million to $75 million.

請記住，我們在第三季末收到了關於 1.8 億美元 SaaS ARR 的問題，許多投資者都想知道一個具體的數字或一個範圍。我們交談過的許多投資者都認為我們不會獲得任何投資，我們也認為這是合理的。所以我認為，當你審視第四季度的實際業績時，我們能夠轉化如此大比例的訂單，這與產品生命週期結束的公告以及由此在我們的客戶群中產生的緊迫感有關，而對 2026 年的預期則在 5000 萬美元到 7500 萬美元之間。

It's also critical to understand the -- in most other companies that they are doing the SaaS transition -- there is not a big discrepancy in features between the on-prem and the cloud. For us, it's something that is completely different in our cloud is moving extremely fast and we integrate the new acquisitions there. And these customers, as Guy said, is federal customers and some just local government customers and some customers that have hesitation and don't want to go to SaaS, just -- it's a huge, huge difference. And then when you have this growth business that is strong and profitable.

還必須了解的是——在大多數其他正在進行 SaaS 轉型的公司中——本地部署和雲端部署在功能上並沒有太大差異。對我們來說，情況完全不同，我們的雲端發展速度非常快，我們會將新收購的業務整合到其中。正如蓋伊所說，這些客戶包括聯邦政府客戶、一些地方政府客戶，以及一些猶豫不決、不想採用 SaaS 的客戶——這之間存在著巨大的差異。然後，當你擁有一個發展強勁、獲利豐厚的企業。

And as Guy said, we believe that we can get to the 2027 goals reason this customer that will not convert to the 2027 goals that we outlined in the Investor Day. It's very important to understand that it's just something that is completely different. And not only that, with the way that we move and release features and the SaaS platform works, the discrepancy is growing and growing. And what will happen is that you will have small cohort of customers that will take just a lot of operational resources to do something that is just not relevant.

正如蓋伊所說，我們相信我們可以實現 2027 年的目標，但這位客戶不會接受我們在投資者日上概述的 2027 年目標。理解這一點非常重要，因為這完全是兩碼事。不僅如此，隨著我們推進和發布功能的方式以及 SaaS 平台的運作方式，這種差距還在不斷擴大。結果就是，你會擁有一小群客戶，他們會佔用大量的營運資源去做一些無關緊要的事情。

So this is what you see from us. We just -- we are now 86% there, and we just want to be 100% there and make sure that we have this SaaS platform with high-quality SaaS metrics, and this is where we invest and this is how we move forward. And we just want to make sure that the last leg of conversions, anybody that we can convert will convert and fight for it, but folks do not go to the cloud, we need to end the class and

這就是你們從我們這裡看到的。我們現在已經完成了 86%，我們只想 100% 完成，確保我們擁有一個具備高品質 SaaS 指標的 SaaS 平台，這就是我們投資的方向，也是我們前進的方向。我們只想確保轉化的最後階段，所有能轉化的人都會轉化，並且會努力爭取，但人們不去雲端，我們需要結束這個階段。

Fatima Boolani, Citi.

Fatima Boolani，花旗銀行。

Guy, I wanted to just in the OpEx and free cash flow expectations. You've been very clear about a number of different factors that is impacting that trajectory. But I was hoping you could sort of recrystallize some of what you shared with respect to the end-of-life headwind, the ARR contribution compression as it relates to some of the nonrenewal assumptions as well as maybe some organic investments that you are making in growing your sales capacity and then also in the context of the AllTrue acquisition. So hoping you can stack rank the level of impact from an operating expense and free cash flow headwind perspective between the organic inputs and inorganic inputs, especially kind of given the number of acquisitions that you're absorbing into the cost base?

夥計，我只想了解營運支出和自由現金流預期。您已經非常清楚地闡述了影響這一發展軌跡的許多不同因素。但我希望您能重新闡述您之前分享的一些內容，例如產品生命週期末期的不利因素、與一些不續約假設相關的 ARR 貢獻壓縮，以及您在擴大銷售能力方面進行的一些有機投資，還有 AllTrue 收購的背景下的情況。所以，希望你能從營運費用和自由現金流逆風的角度，對有機投入和無機投入的影響程度進行排序，特別是考慮到你將大量收購納入了成本基礎？

Absolutely. I'll start by the fact that when you look at the free cash flow progression, I think we've done a good job of increasing kind of that free cash flow number over the last couple of years. And when you look at the ARR contribution margin, we've actually increased it to levels that are just below the 2027 model that we laid out in our 2023 Investor Day. So I think from a profitability perspective, we have proven to investors that we have the path and we know how to improve and increase the top line growth with bringing some of it to the bottom line. When you look at the 2026 numbers and especially when you look at some of the lower renewal rates for the non-SaaS business that have been below our historical levels.

絕對地。首先，從自由現金流的成長來看，我認為我們在過去幾年裡很好地提高了自由現金流的數量。從 ARR 貢獻率來看，我們實際上已經將其提高到略低於我們在 2023 年投資者日上提出的 2027 年模型的水平。因此，我認為從獲利能力的角度來看，我們已經向投資者證明，我們有正確的道路，並且知道如何提高營收成長，並將部分成長轉化為利潤。當你查看 2026 年的數據，尤其是當你查看一些非 SaaS 業務的較低續約率（低於我們歷史水平）時。

Obviously, when you think about renewals, they go directly to the bottom line. That's your pure profitability component, and they are way more profitable than the acquisition of new customers that have higher cost. So when you think about kind of the non-SaaS ARR that is not going to renew, that obviously has that headwind, and we talked about the $30 million to $50 million of headwind from that end-of-life announcement.

顯然，續約問題直接關係到企業的利潤。這是純粹的獲利組成部分，而且它們的獲利能力遠高於獲取成本更高的新客戶。所以，當你考慮到那些不會續訂的非 SaaS ARR 時，這顯然會帶來不利影響，我們之前也討論過，由於產品生命週期結束的公告，將會造成 3000 萬至 5000 萬美元的損失。

But I think what's important to note is that if we didn't call that end of life, the impact would have been much higher. So if I have to break down kind of that headwind, I would say that for the most part, it relates to the lower renewal rate for that non-SaaS business. Obviously, the acquisitions have a cost. And when you think about the guidance, we didn't bake in any upside from those acquisitions.

但我認為需要注意的是，如果我們不稱那為生命的終點，影響將會更大。所以，如果非要分析這種不利因素，我會說，這在很大程度上與非 SaaS 業務的續約率較低有關。顯然，收購是有代價的。考慮到業績指引，我們並沒有將這些收購帶來的任何利多因素計入其中。

We saw very good momentum in Q4 with Interceptor, but we need to see how that progresses from 2026. So I think there's upside there for us. And the acquisition that we announced today, we feel good about our ability to capitalize on that as well. So from an expense perspective, we baked in those expenses as part of that guidance.

第四季 Interceptor 專案發展勢頭良好，但我們需要看看 2026 年後的發展。所以我認為這對我們來說是有利的。對於我們今天宣布的這項收購，我們也對能夠從中獲利充滿信心。因此，從費用角度來看，我們已將這些費用計入指導方針中。

Obviously, we didn't fully bake in any real upside for 2026, and we do believe that we can get there. So if you had to break down that headwind, I would say that for the most part, it comes from the renewals, but obviously, some of it is from the acquisitions themselves.

顯然，我們並沒有完全考慮到 2026 年的任何實際上漲空間，但我們相信我們能夠實現這個目標。所以，如果要分析這個不利因素，我會說，大部分不利因素來自續約，但顯然，部分不利因素來自收購本身。

Mike Cikos, Needham.

麥克·西科斯，尼德姆。

Guy, you're perfectly clear on the M&A assumptions. So you're not assuming any revenue or ARR contribution from Cyril or Next, even though both those products lose last year? And then I guess the follow-up, given some of the changes that were announced following Q3 with the 5% headcount reduction, and the downsized federal team.

蓋伊，你對併購假設的理解非常透徹。所以，即使 Cyril 和 Next 這兩款產品去年都虧損，你們也不指望它們能帶來任何收入或年度經常性收入 (ARR) 嗎？然後，我想後續情況是，考慮到第三季之後宣布的一些變化，例如裁員 5% 以及縮減聯邦團隊規模。

Can you just help us take out your go-to-market organization today? At what is typical tenure of your sales reps? Or have there been any changes to incentives as we enter the new year?

今天你能幫我們把你們的市場推廣組織拆掉嗎？貴公司銷售代表的平均任期是多久？或者說，隨著新年的到來，激勵措施是否有所改變？

Absolutely. So yes, when you think about kind of the assumptions that we had for guidance for 2026, we didn't bake in any real top line contribution from any of the acquisitions. That doesn't mean that we don't think we can generate activity and top line growth from them. But our starting point assumed a real modest contribution from them and nothing major, but we do feel that there's a path there, and we're seeing good momentum in conversation with customers.

絕對地。所以，是的，當你考慮到我們對 2026 年業績指引的假設時，我們並沒有將任何收購帶來的實際營收貢獻納入考量。但這並不意味著我們認為我們不能從中創造業務量和營收成長。但我們的出發點是假設他們只會做出非常有限的貢獻，不會做出任何重大貢獻，但我們確實覺得這是一條可行的道路，而且我們在與客戶的對話中看到了良好的勢頭。

Keep in mind, the Intercept acquisition only closed in September. So it's a really short runway when we sit here today for a company that didn't have any material ARR, but we definitely see significant opportunity going forward.

請注意，Intercept 的收購案直到 9 月才完成。所以，對於一家沒有任何實質年度經常性收入的公司來說，我們今天所處的階段確實非常短暫，但我們絕對看到了未來巨大的發展機會。

In terms of kind of the rep profile. I think that one of the things that is interesting going into 2026 is that with those acquisitions, we actually do have an earmarked budget that we can go and replace which does change and simplify some of the go-to-market for the sale of those Interceptor and the acquisition. And it's definitely something that we need to see how that progresses, but we feel very good with that path. And when you think about the comp plan, for 2026. And I want to touch on the 2025 comp plan.

就代表形象而言。我認為，展望 2026 年，有趣的一點是，透過這些收購，我們實際上有一筆專門的預算可以用來替換現有設備，這確實改變並簡化了 Interceptor 出售和收購的一些市場推廣策略。這當然是我們需要觀察其進展的事情，但我們對這條路感到非常滿意。當你考慮2026年的薪酬計畫。我想談談 2025 年的薪酬計畫。

I know many of the investors asked us a lot about it throughout the year. But in 2025, reps had a lot of ways to make money. They could sell to new customers, they could sell to existing customers, and they could make money from the conversion.

我知道今年有很多投資者問過我們很多關於這個問題的問題。但到了 2025 年，銷售代表們有很多賺錢的方法。他們可以向新客戶銷售產品，也可以向現有客戶銷售產品，並且可以透過轉換率提升來賺錢。

In 2026, they cannot retire quota on the conversions themselves. So their way to make money is by selling to new customers and selling to existing customers, and I want to put another caveat in, they can make money by selling to both, but they have absolutely no way of making big money if they don't sell to new customers. So there is a threshold from a new customer perspective for them to sell.

2026 年，他們無法透過轉換本身來退休配額。所以他們的賺錢方式是向新客戶銷售產品，也向現有客戶銷售產品。我還要補充一點，他們可以透過向新舊客戶銷售產品來賺錢，但如果不向新客戶銷售產品，他們就絕對不可能賺大錢。所以從新客戶的角度來看，他們銷售產品有一個門檻。

And we believe that as we have gone through the non-SAP ARR and got to 86% and can go back to focusing on new customers and existing customer sales. And don't need to have the reps cannibalize their time by focusing on the conversions that actually opens up their ability to increase their productivity levels. And that's the way the comp plan was structured with no ability for them to make money towards their quarter retirement on the conversion side.

我們相信，隨著非 SAP ARR 業務的完成，我們已達到 86%，現在可以重新專注於新客戶和現有客戶的銷售。而且也不需要讓銷售代表把時間浪費在提高轉換率上，這實際上會提升他們的生產力水準。而薪酬計畫就是這樣設計的，他們無法透過轉換來賺取季度退休金。

Rudy Kessinger, D.A. Davidson.

魯迪·凱辛格，D.A.戴維森。

Great. So Guy, actually, again, as everybody in this call, I said I appreciate the new disclosures here. I actually want to dig into the SaaS net new ARR guidance, excluding the conversions, midpoint of about $121.5 million. Certainly hear your comments about reps were really bogged down and tied up with conversions last year. And yet you still did about $110 million of net new SaaS ARR excluding those conversions.

偉大的。所以蓋伊，實際上，就像這次通話中的每個人一樣，我再次表示感謝這裡披露的新資訊。我其實想深入研究 SaaS 淨新增 ARR 指引，不包括轉換率，中位數約 1.215 億美元。當然，我聽到了你關於去年銷售代表的工作量確實被轉換率拖累的評論。即使不計入這些轉化，你們仍然實現了約 1.1 億美元的新增 SaaS ARR 淨額。

And so if I consider the reps being much more freed up to really focus on SaaS expansion, new logos this year, the $121.5 million actually to me seems pretty conservative and are lower than it should be, if I assume you maintain at least 110% SaaS net retention rate. So could you just maybe take a step further, like what are the assumptions in that $121 million figure around new logo contribution, net retention rate, et cetera? And just how conservative are those assumptions?

因此，如果我考慮到銷售代表可以更自由地專注於 SaaS 擴張和今年的新客戶開發，那麼 1.215 億美元的收入在我看來實際上相當保守，低於預期，前提是我假設 SaaS 淨留存率至少保持在 110%。那麼，您能否更進一步，例如，關於新商標貢獻、淨留存率等方面的 1.21 億美元數字的假設是什麼？這些假設究竟有多保守？

So you're absolutely right. We are guiding in a conservative way as a starting point for the year. And you're absolutely right that if you look at the -- at the net new SaaS ARR excluding conversions being at 109.5%, but also accounting for approximately $190 million of conversion ARR when you don't have that component, the conversion side, then you can go and sell to new customers and existing customers in a better way. So I agree with your statement, and I think that we fully understand what we need to do in order to execute and grow this business in the way that we believe we can grow the business.

所以你的說法完全正確。今年伊始，我們將採取保守的指導方針。您說得完全正確，如果您看一下——不包括轉換在內的新增 SaaS ARR 為 109.5%，但同時考慮到轉換 ARR 約為 1.9 億美元，那麼當您沒有轉換部分時，您就可以更好地向新客戶和現有客戶銷售產品。所以我同意你的說法，而且我認為我們完全明白為了按照我們認為能夠發展業務的方式執行和發展這項業務，我們需要做什麼。

Sitting here today, we feel very comfortable with the guidance that we provided and know what we need to do in order to execute and improve it throughout the year. But the assumptions from an NRR perspective is that we actually can do better. There is a lot for us to sell going back to the base. And we think that we're selling to new customers bringing that time that with cannabis, they can actually go to many more new customers and sell to them as well. So I agree with your statement and that is our starting point for 2026.

今天坐在這裡，我們對所提供的指導感到非常滿意，並且知道為了在這一年中執行和改進這些指導，我們需要做什麼。但從 NRR 的角度來看，我們的假設是，我們實際上可以做得更好。回基地後，我們有很多東西要賣。我們認為，我們正在向新客戶銷售產品，而有了大麻，他們實際上可以接觸到更多的新客戶並向他們銷售產品。所以我同意你的說法，這就是我們2026年的出發點。

If you look at our offering today versus just a year ago, we doubled the platform in terms of value. The focus needs to be to -- not on the conversions to create value and make sure that the data of our customers is protected in an automated way. This is our mission, and this is what we are going to do.

如果您將我們今天的產品和服務與一年前進行比較，您會發現我們的平台價值翻了一番。重點應該放在創造價值上，而不是轉換率上，而是確保以自動化的方式保護客戶資料。這就是我們的使命，也是我們將要做的事。

Joseph Gallo, Jefferies.

Joseph Gallo，傑富瑞集團。

I really appreciate the question, and thanks for all the extra disclosures. Guy, can you just help me understand a little bit more the end-of-life headwind to free cash flow? I mean billings and ARR were really strong in 4Q. You're still guiding for ARR to grow in calendar '26. I'd imagine billings and bookings are growing.

非常感謝您的提問，也感謝您提供的所有額外資訊。蓋伊，你能幫我更深入地了解產品生命週期末期對自由現金流的不利影響嗎？我的意思是，第四季度的帳單金額和年度經常性收入都非常強勁。您仍然預計 2026 年 ARR 將會成長。我估計帳單金額和預訂量都在增長。

So just -- is there something different with the cash collections? And then just any more that you can kind of quantify on what the benefit for not having to support on-premise can be? Is that a few points to margin? And is that a '26-story or '27?

所以，現金收款方面有什麼不同嗎？那麼，您能否進一步量化一下，無需支援本地部署究竟能帶來哪些好處呢？那隻是幾分的差距嗎？那是26層還是27層？

So Joe, I actually think that the free cash flow headwind is a much simpler story than anything else, honestly. When you think -- if you took the [Renal rig], the historical renewal rate of the business, and baked it into the non-SaaS ARR, that is the delta. That is the headwind.

所以喬，說實話，我認為自由現金流受阻其實比其他任何事情都簡單得多。當你思考時——如果你把[腎臟設備]、業務的歷史續約率，並將其計入非 SaaS ARR，那就是差額。這就是逆風。

And we're obviously not getting the same -- or at least the assumption is that we won't be getting the non-SaaS ARR at the same renewal rate historical levels, a, because we didn't see that in Q3; and b, we -- although Q4 renewal rates for the non-SaaS business were better than Q3, they were still below historical levels. And I think the end of life actually helped us get a lot of the customers converted. And the expectation is that the end-of-life announcement will actually help us get a lot of our customers converted in 2026.

顯然，我們無法獲得相同的——或者至少假設我們無法獲得與歷史水平相同的非 SaaS ARR 續約率，a，因為我們在第三季度沒有看到這種情況；b，儘管第四季度非 SaaS 業務的續約率比第三季度好，但仍然低於歷史水平。我認為，生命的終點實際上幫助我們轉換了許多客戶。預計產品生命週期結束的公告實際上將幫助我們在 2026 年轉換大量客戶。

But as you can see, that $50 million to $75 million range from approximately $105 million denominator is not over 90% renewal. And I think it's a much simpler math -- and I know we're getting a lot of questions on it, but to me, it's a pretty straightforward calculation in terms of the headwind itself. So when I look at the actual kind of profitability profile for us as an organization, nothing really has changed.

但正如你所看到的，從大約 1.05 億美元的分母來看，5000 萬美元到 7500 萬美元的續約率並沒有超過 90%。我認為這其實是一個更簡單的數學問題——我知道我們收到了很多關於這個問題的提問，但對我來說，就逆風本身而言，這是一個相當直接的計算。所以，當我審視我們公司的實際獲利狀況時，發現並沒有什麼真正的改變。

We're not changing kind of the philosophy of investment. We're not trying to invest more in order to generate a lower top line growth rate. If you look at the trajectory from an ARR contribution margin perspective and you bake in the additional kind of loss on the headwind from the non-SaaS component, you would see that we would continue to grow in the same historical levels. But the announcement of the end of life, and I said this before and I probably want to reemphasize this, the announcement of the end of life actually helped us in three ways. One is generating that sense of urgency for customers to convert.

我們並沒有改變投資理念。我們並非試圖透過增加投資來降低營收成長率。如果從 ARR 貢獻利潤率的角度來看，並且考慮到非 SaaS 部分帶來的額外損失，你會發現我們將繼續以相同的歷史水準成長。但是，生命終結的宣告，我以前說過，而且我可能還要再次強調，生命終結的宣告實際上在三個方面幫助了我們。一是營造緊迫感，促使客戶進行轉換。

The second one, and I think this is actually important to note if we would have kept the on-prem subscription going forward, and we would have had a renewal rate that is historically lower than or lower than our historical levels, then the growth rate would have been masked -- the total growth rate would have been masked by that component versus a really strong SaaS business. And that's why we spent so much time on breaking out the SaaS excluding conversions and putting the conversions as a separate bucket. Because that allows investors and analysts to actually see the two companies that Varonis is right now, the forward looking and the rearview mirror, which is that conversion component. And yes, we believe that announcing that end of life going to 2027 and beyond can actually generate benefits on the bottom line on savings, and that's why we feel confident with our 2027 model.

第二點，我認為這一點非常重要：如果我們繼續保留本地訂閱服務，並且續訂率低於歷史水平，那麼增長率就會被掩蓋——總增長率會被這部分業務所掩蓋，而真正的強勁的 SaaS 業務則不會。這就是為什麼我們花了大量時間將 SaaS 資料（不包括轉換資料）拆分出來，並將轉換資料單獨歸類的原因。因為這樣一來，投資人和分析師就能真正看到 Varonis 目前的兩家公司，即前瞻性公司和後視鏡公司，也就是轉換部分。是的，我們相信，宣布產品生命週期結束時間延長至 2027 年及以後，實際上可以帶來利潤增長和成本節約，這也是我們對 2027 年模型充滿信心的原因。

Junaid Siddiqui, Truist.

Junaid Siddiqui，Truist。

Guy, you've talked about MDDR having software-like gross margins over time. As it becomes a material contributor to your business, how do you envision gross margins? Do you anticipate any changes from the range that -- in that high 70s, low 80s?

Guy，你之前說過 MDDR 的毛利率會隨著時間推移而像軟體一樣成長。當它成為您業務的重要貢獻者時，您如何設想毛利率？你預計價格範圍會有任何變化嗎？例如在 70 多度到 80 度出頭？

No, we don't expect any material change there. The MDDR has been very well received by both our customers and our sales force and has been adopted very well. Keep in mind, we only introduced it in 2024, and it's been adopted in a very positive way.

不，我們預計這方面不會有任何實質變化。MDDR受到了我們客戶和銷售團隊的一致好評，並且得到了很好的推廣應用。請記住，我們只是在 2024 年才推出這項技術，而且它得到了非常積極的推廣。

We still believe that every single customer should have MDDR. It's going to take time, but we're definitely feeling very good about the path that we have taken so far and what we -- what is lying ahead with MDDR as well.

我們仍然認為每一位顧客都應該擁有MDDR。這需要時間，但我們對目前為止所採取的道路以及 MDDR 的未來發展都感到非常滿意。

But also, it's very important to understand that the MDDR is really the AI-based offer. It's just agentic offering and most of the alerts are being reviewed and closed by the AI agent developers, and this is the beauty of it.

但同樣重要的是要明白，MDDR 實際上是基於人工智慧的產品。這只是代理提供的功能，大多數警報都由 AI 代理開發人員審核和關閉，這就是它的妙處所在。

There are no more questions at this time. I'd like to turn the floor back over to Tim Perz for any closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。我想把發言權交還給提姆·佩爾茲，讓他做最後的總結發言。

Thanks, everybody, for the interest in Varonis. We look forward to meeting with you all later this quarter.

感謝大家對Varonis的關注。我們期待在本季晚些時候與各位見面。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you again for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。您可以在此時斷開線路。再次感謝您的參與。