Vicor Corp (VICR) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome, everyone, to today's webinar entitled Vicor Earnings Results for the second quarter ended June 30, 2023. My name is Robin, and I'll be the facilitator for today. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎大家參加今天的網絡研討會，題為截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日的第二季度 Vicor 盈利結果。我叫 Robin，我將擔任今天的主持人。 （操作員說明）

And with that, I would like to hand the call over to James Schmidt, Chief Financial Officer. Please proceed.

說到這裡，我想將電話轉交給首席財務官詹姆斯·施密特 (James Schmidt)。請繼續。

Thank you. Good afternoon, and welcome to Vicor Corporation's earnings call for the second quarter ended June 30, 2023. I'm James Schmidt, Chief Financial Officer; and I'm in Andover with Patrizio Vinciarelli, Chief Executive Officer; and Phil Davies, Corporate Vice President, Global Sales and Marketing.

謝謝。下午好，歡迎參加 Vicor Corporation 截至 2023 年 6 月 30 日的第二季度財報電話會議。我是首席財務官 James Schmidt；我和首席執行官 Patrizio Vinciarelli 一起在安多佛。 Phil Davies，全球銷售和營銷公司副總裁。

After the market closed today, we issued a press release summarizing our financial results for the 3 months and 6 months ended June 30. This press release has been posted on the Investor Relations page of our website, www.vicorpower.com. We also filed a Form 8-K today related to the issuance of this press release. I remind listeners this conference call is being recorded and is the copyrighted property of Vicor Corporation. I was to remind you, various remarks we make during this call may constitute forward-looking statements for purposes of the safe harbor provisions under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Except for historical information contained in this call, the matters discussed on this call, including any statements regarding current and planned products, current and potential customers, potential market opportunities, expected events and announcements and our capacity expansion as well as management's expectations for sales growth, spending and profitability, are forward-looking statements involving risks and uncertainties.

今天收盤後，我們發布了一份新聞稿，總結了截至 6 月 30 日的 3 個月和 6 個月的財務業績。本新聞稿已發佈在我們網站 www.vicorpower.com 的投資者關係頁面上。我們今天還提交了與本新聞稿發布相關的 8-K 表格。我提醒聽眾，本次電話會議正在錄音，並且是 Vicor Corporation 的版權財產。我要提醒您的是，我們在本次電話會議中發表的各種言論可能構成根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》中的安全港條款而做出的前瞻性陳述。除了本次電話會議中包含的歷史信息外，本次電話會議中討論的事項電話會議，包括有關當前和計劃產品、當前和潛在客戶、潛在市場機會、預期事件和公告、我們的產能擴張以及管理層對銷售增長、支出和盈利能力的預期的任何聲明，均為涉及風險和不確定性的前瞻性聲明。

In light of these risks and uncertainties, we can offer no assurance that any forward-looking statement will, in fact, prove to be correct. Actual results may differ materially from those explicitly set forth in or implied by any of our remarks today. The risks and uncertainties we face are discussed in Item 1A of our 2022 Form 10-K, which we filed with the SEC on February 28, 2023. This document is available via the EDGAR system on the SEC's website.

鑑於這些風險和不確定性，我們不能保證任何前瞻性陳述實際上都被證明是正確的。實際結果可能與我們今天的任何言論中明確闡述或暗示的結果存在重大差異。我們於 2023 年 2 月 28 日向 SEC 提交的 2022 年 10-K 表格的第 1A 項討論了我們面臨的風險和不確定性。該文件可通過 SEC 網站上的 EDGAR 系統獲取。

Please note the information provided during this conference call is accurate only as of today, Tuesday, July 25, 2023. Vicor undertakes no obligation to update any statements, including forward-looking statements made during this call, and you should not rely upon such statements after the conclusion of this call. A webcast replay of today's call will be available shortly on the Investor Relations page of our website.

請注意，本次電話會議期間提供的信息僅截至今天（2023 年 7 月 25 日星期二）準確。Vicor 不承擔更新任何聲明的義務，包括本次電話會議期間做出的前瞻性聲明，您不應依賴此類聲明本次通話結束後。我們網站的投資者關係頁面很快將提供今天電話會議的網絡廣播重播。

I'll now turn to our review of our Q2 financial performance, after which Phil will review recent market developments, and Patrizio, Phil and I will take your questions. In my remarks, I will focus mostly on the sequential quarterly changes for P&L and balance sheet items and refer you to our press release or our upcoming Form 10-Q for additional information.

現在我將回顧第二季度的財務業績，之後菲爾將回顧最近的市場發展，帕特里齊奧、菲爾和我將回答你們的問題。在我的發言中，我將主要關注損益表和資產負債表項目的連續季度變化，並請您參閱我們的新聞稿或即將發布的 10-Q 表格以獲取更多信息。

As stated in today's press release, Vicor recorded total revenue for the second quarter of $106.7 million, up 9.1% sequentially from the first quarter of 2023 total of $97.8 million and up 4.5% from the second quarter of 2022 total of $102.2 million. Advanced Products revenue increased 31.6% sequentially to $67.5 million, while Brick Products revenue decreased 15.7% sequentially to $39.2 million. Shipments to stocking distributors decreased 0.5% sequentially and increased 47.6% year-over-year. Exports for the second quarter increased sequentially as a percentage of total revenue to approximately 68.1% from the prior quarter's 64.3%.

正如今天的新聞稿所述，Vicor 第二季度總收入為 1.067 億美元，比 2023 年第一季度的 9780 萬美元總額增長 9.1%，比 2022 年第二季度的 1.022 億美元總額增長 4.5%。高級產品收入環比增長 31.6%，達到 6,750 萬美元，而磚產品收入環比下降 15.7%，達到 3,920 萬美元。向庫存經銷商的出貨量環比下降 0.5%，同比增長 47.6%。第二季度出口占總收入的比例從上一季度的 64.3% 增至約 68.1%。

For Q2, Advanced Products share of total revenue increased to 63.2% compared to 52.4% for the first quarter of 2023, with Brick Products share correspondingly decreased to 36.8% of total revenue.

第二季度，高級產品佔總收入的份額從 2023 年第一季度的 52.4% 增至 63.2%，磚產品份額相應下降至總收入的 36.8%。

Turning to Q2 gross margin, we recorded a consolidated gross profit margin of 51.7%, which is a 410 basis point increase from the prior quarter. During the quarter, we recovered approximately $2.8 million in duty drawback of previously paid tariffs. We continue to work to reduce overall tariff expense and recover previously paid duty drawback.

至於第二季度毛利率，我們的綜合毛利率為 51.7%，較上季度增長 410 個基點。本季度，我們收回了約 280 萬美元之前支付的關稅退稅。我們繼續努力降低總體關稅費用並收回之前繳納的關稅退稅。

I'll now turn to Q2 operating expenses. Total operating expense increased 3.4% sequentially from the first quarter of 2023 to $37.3 million. The sequential increase was primarily due to an increase in R&D spending. The amounts of total equity-based compensation expense for Q2 included in cost of goods, SG&A and R&D was $570,000, $1,626,000 and $816,000, respectively, totaling approximately $3 million. For Q2, we recorded operating income of $17.9 million, representing an operating margin of 16.7%.

我現在談談第二季度的運營費用。總運營費用較 2023 年第一季度環比增長 3.4%，達到 3730 萬美元。環比增長主要是由於研發支出的增加。第二季度計入商品成本、SG&A 和研發成本的股權激勵費用總額分別為 570,000 美元、1,626,000 美元和 816,000 美元，總計約 300 萬美元。第二季度，我們的營業收入為 1790 萬美元，營業利潤率為 16.7%。

Turning to income taxes. We recorded a tax provision for Q2 of approximately $2.5 million, representing an effective tax rate for the quarter of 12.9%. Net income for Q2 totaled $17.1 million. GAAP diluted earnings per share was $0.38 based on a fully diluted share count of 44,906,000 shares. Fully diluted EPS increased approximately 52% sequentially compared to $0.25 in the first quarter of 2023 and increased approximately 58% from $0.24 per share earned in the same quarter a year ago.

轉向所得稅。我們第二季度的稅收撥備約為 250 萬美元，相當於該季度 12.9% 的有效稅率。第二季度淨利潤總計 1710 萬美元。根據 44,906,000 股完全稀釋後的股數計算，GAAP 攤薄後每股收益為 0.38 美元。與 2023 年第一季度的 0.25 美元相比，完全稀釋後每股收益環比增長約 52%，與去年同期的每股收益 0.24 美元相比增長約 58%。

Turning to our cash flow and balance sheet. Cash and cash equivalents totaled $203.8 million in Q2. Accounts receivable net of reserves totaled $63.8 million at quarter end, with DSOs for trade receivables at 43 days. Inventories net of reserves decreased 0.7% sequentially to $106.6 million. Annualized inventory turns were 2.1, operating cash flow totaled $19 million for the quarter. Capital expenditures for Q2 totaled $8.5 million. We ended the quarter with a construction in progress balance primarily for manufacturing equipment of approximately $23 million and with approximately $10 million remaining to be spent.

轉向我們的現金流和資產負債表。第二季度現金和現金等價物總額為 2.038 億美元。截至季度末，扣除準備金的應收賬款總額為 6,380 萬美元，應收賬款的 DSO 為 43 天。扣除準備金後的庫存淨值環比下降 0.7%，至 1.066 億美元。年化庫存周轉率為 2.1，本季度運營現金流總計 1,900 萬美元。第二季度的資本支出總計 850 萬美元。本季度結束時，我們的在建工程餘額主要用於製造設備，約為 2300 萬美元，還有約 1000 萬美元待支出。

I'll now address bookings and backlog. Q2 book-to-bill came in below 1 and one year backlog decreased 19.9% from the prior quarter, closing at $217.3 million. Turning to the third quarter of 2023, we expect revenue and gross margin to be approximately flat. We also expect a sequential increase in operating expenses, primarily as a result of funding the legal work associated with cases filed earlier this month at the International Trade Commission and in federal court in the Eastern District of Texas against foreign manufacturers of power modules and computing systems infringing Vicor patents covering non-isolated bus converters, NBMs.

我現在將解決預訂和積壓問題。第二季度訂單出貨比低於 1，一年積壓訂單較上一季度下降 19.9%，收於 2.173 億美元。展望 2023 年第三季度，我們預計收入和毛利率將大致持平。我們還預計運營費用將連續增加，這主要是由於為本月早些時候在國際貿易委員會和德克薩斯州東區聯邦法院針對外國電源模塊和計算系統製造商提起的案件相關的法律工作提供了資金侵犯 Vicor 涉及非隔離總線轉換器、NBM 的專利。

Legal work associated with these cases and related legal expenses are expected to grow substantially over the next year. Legal expenses are, however, less than the royalties paid to Vicor by licensees of our patents. In our ITC case, we are seeking an exclusion order precluding importation into the United States of power modules, servers or AI cards that infringe our patents. In our district court case, we are seeking damages for willful patent infringement.

與這些案件相關的法律工作和相關法律費用預計明年將大幅增長。然而，法律費用低於我們專利被許可人向 Vicor 支付的特許權使用費。在我們的 ITC 案件中，我們正在尋求一項排除令，禁止將侵犯我們專利的電源模塊、服務器或人工智能卡進口到美國。在我們的地區法院案件中，我們正在尋求故意專利侵權的損害賠償。

With that, Phil will provide an overview of recent market developments, and then Patrizio, Phil and I will take your questions. I ask that you limit yourselves to one question and a related follow-up so that we can respond to as many of you as possible in the limited time available. If you have more than one topic to address, please get back in the queue. Phil?

接下來，菲爾將概述最近的市場發展，然後帕特里齊奧、菲爾和我將回答大家的問題。我要求你們將自己限制在一個問題和相關的後續行動上，以便我們能夠在有限的時間內回复盡可能多的人。如果您有多個主題要討論，請回到隊列中。菲爾？

Thank you, Jim. Let me begin by summarizing the key messages from the Annual Shareholders Meeting we held in Boston 4 weeks ago. Our business opportunities have never been stronger given the future growth of AI and the move to 48-volt power distribution in both the high-performance computing and automotive markets. Our investments in 48-volt power distribution and power conversion technology over the past 15 years have put Vicor in a unique position with intellectual property to key innovations in power distribution architectures, including factorized power and vertical power delivery, powertrain topologies, control systems and power module packaging technology.

謝謝你，吉姆。首先讓我總結一下我們 4 週前在波士頓舉行的年度股東大會的關鍵信息。鑑於人工智能的未來發展以及高性能計算和汽車市場向 48 伏配電的轉變，我們的商機從未如此強大。過去 15 年，我們對 48 伏配電和電源轉換技術的投資使 Vicor 處於獨特的地位，擁有配電架構關鍵創新的知識產權，包括分比式電源和垂直電源傳輸、動力總成拓撲、控制系統和電源模塊封裝技術。

Our new and the world's first ChiP fab is coming online in September, setting the stage for unprecedented scalability as we start shipping initial quantities of vertically integrated chips to lead customers for their qualification. Our lateral-vertical distribution network provides superior performance for advanced GPUs, strengthening our position as the supplier of high-performance power systems in HPC markets.

我們的全球第一家全新 ChiP 晶圓廠將於 9 月上線，為前所未有的可擴展性奠定了基礎，我們開始運送首批垂直集成芯片，以引導客戶進行資格認證。我們的橫向-縱向分銷網絡為高級 GPU 提供卓越的性能，鞏固了我們作為 HPC 市場高性能電源系統供應商的地位。

In short, as an earlier generation AI program using our third-generation factorized power ChiP-set ramps down, our fourth generation ChiP-set is expected to start shipping in Q4 into a next-generation AI platform in a lateral or lateral-vertical PDN. The lateral-vertical PDN will provide nearly 10% higher power system efficiency and superior processor performance. Advanced processes currently in development require current levels that can only be supported with vertical power delivery through complex stacked VPD structures that Vicor pioneered and patented. With a 300% advance in current density, Vicor's fifth generation technology enables a more mature and scalable second-generation VPD, which will soon be key to high-performance AI accelerators.

簡而言之，隨著使用我們第三代分比式功率 ChiP 組的上一代 AI 程序逐漸減少，我們的第四代 ChiP 組預計將於第四季度開始運送到橫向或橫向垂直 PDN 中的下一代 AI 平台。橫向-垂直 PDN 將提供提高近 10% 的電源系統效率和卓越的處理器性能。目前正在開發的先進工藝要求當前水平只能通過 Vicor 首創並獲得專利的複雜堆疊 VPD 結構的垂直電力傳輸來支持。 Vicor 第五代技術的電流密度提高了 300%，可實現更加成熟和可擴展的第二代 VPD，這很快將成為高性能 AI 加速器的關鍵。

The electrification and autonomy are opening up other markets for us, including industrial, aerospace and defense markets. Our commitment to a set of top 100 customers globally achieving operational excellence supported by our new ChiP fab is the focus of our entire company and execution is now the name of the game. Thank you.

電氣化和自動化正在為我們開闢其他市場，包括工業、航空航天和國防市場。我們對全球 100 強客戶的承諾是我們整個公司的重點，而執行力現在是遊戲的名稱。謝謝。

Patrizio, Jim and I will now take your questions.

帕特里齊奧、吉姆和我現在將回答你們的問題。

(Operator Instructions) And the first question is coming from Quinn Bolton.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Quinn Bolton。

First question is, can you guys share any more details on the 4G lateral power distribution design? You mentioned in the press release for a new AI platform that ramps in the fourth quarter. Can you say is this a new customer? Or have you worked with this customer previously? Can you give us any sense of what power consumption is for this part? Is it high-power cords? Is it a mid-range power cord? Any details you can share would be very helpful.

第一個問題，請問您能分享一下4G橫向配電設計的更多細節嗎？您在新聞稿中提到了將於第四季度推出的新人工智能平台。你能說這是新客戶嗎？或者您以前曾與該客戶合作過嗎？您能否告訴我們這部分的功耗是多少？是大功率電源線嗎？這是中檔電源線嗎？您可以分享的任何細節都會非常有幫助。

Do you think that's on -- it's new generation for the existing customer. And it's a ChiP-set that can be deployed either in a lateral PDN, which is substantially handicapped from a power system perspective to the point that it limits power delivery, power capability, processor performance, in that it gives rise to large losses within the copper of the substrate to the GPU and then the towers. It gives rise to further losses within the [silicon] itself, owing to the limitations of a lot of our delivery applied at the 1,000-amp level.

您認為這對現有客戶來說是新一代嗎？它是一個 ChiP 集，可以部署在橫向 PDN 中，從電源系統的角度來看，它存在很大的缺陷，限制了電力傳輸、電力能力、處理器性能，因為它會在網絡中產生巨大的損耗。將基板的銅連接到 GPU，然後連接到塔。由於我們在 1,000 安培級別應用的許多傳輸的限制，它會在[矽]本身內產生進一步的損耗。

With 4G ChiP-set, we can enable a lot of solution with the same handicaps or with a vertical element using the same ChiP-set, a lateral-vertical solution, which is unique, highly differentiated in that improved system efficiency by about 10% and removes a number of limit actions relating to processor performance.

借助 4G ChiP-set，我們可以使用相同的 ChiP-set（橫向-垂直解決方案）實現具有相同障礙或垂直元件的許多解決方案，該解決方案是獨特的、高度差異化的，可將系統效率提高約 10%並刪除了許多與處理器性能相關的限制操作。

So Patrizio, I guess, as a follow-up, it sounds like it can be deployed either lateral or lateral-vertical. Can you say is the solution going to production in the fourth quarter is that lateral first with the potential to switch the lateral-vertical sometime next year?

所以，我想，作為後續產品，Patrizio 聽起來可以橫向部署，也可以橫向垂直部署。您能否說第四季度投入生產的解決方案是橫向優先，並有可能在明年某個時候切換橫向垂直？

It is likely to be lateral first, followed by lateral-vertical.

它可能首先是橫向的，然後是橫向垂直的。

Great. And then you had mentioned sort of lateral-vertical improves efficiency by 10%. And I think in the press release, you said that would enable a 100-watt power saving. So am I right to be thinking that this AI platform could be consuming nearly 1,000 watts? Is that the right ballpark?

偉大的。然後你提到橫向垂直可以提高 10% 的效率。我想您在新聞稿中說過這可以節省 100 瓦的電量。那麼我認為這個 AI 平台可能消耗近 1,000 瓦的想法是否正確？這是正確的球場嗎？

I'm not going to comment about the power consumption of the platform beyond that which is implied in the earlier comments, which is that, to your point, we expect to save in total about 100 watts, which approximately represents a 10% improvement in system efficiency. But one should keep in mind that, well, 10%, in some respects, may not sound like a lot.

除了之前的評論中暗示的內容之外，我不會評論該平台的功耗，也就是說，就您而言，我們預計總共節省約 100 瓦，這大約意味著 10% 的改進系統效率。但我們應該記住，10% 在某些方面聽起來可能並不是很多。

It is a lot in a number of respects that are somewhat technical in that would be, in effect, somewhat difficult to articulate in sufficient detail in this context today. But whether it's the gradients or voltage differentials across a pin field brought about by lateral curl flow across distances on a substrate with substantial resistance, dissipating a substantial amount of power or the self-feeding within that substrate that is caused by the power dissipation of the substrate and the silicon.

它在很多方面都具有一定的技術性，實際上在今天的背景下很難足夠詳細地闡明。但是，無論是在具有相當大電阻的基板上跨距離的橫向捲曲流帶來的引腳場上的梯度或電壓差，耗散大量功率還是由基板內的功率耗散引起的自供電襯底和矽。

What we're really talking about is something we have discussed before, you might recall my pointing to these kinds of limitations and challenges many, many moons ago. It's just indicative of fundamental assembling blocks to what can be accomplished with commercial technology and its constraints within the helm of a power distribution network that is lateral.

我們真正談論的是我們之前討論過的事情，你可能還記得我在很多很多個月前指出過這些限制和挑戰。它只是表明了商業技術可以實現的基本組裝塊及其在橫向配電網絡掌舵下的限制。

The next question is coming from the line of [John Dillon].

下一個問題來自[約翰·狄龍]。

I want to follow-up on Quinn's question a little bit. Regarding the lateral-vertical opportunity that's coming to production in Q4, is that a high-volume customer? Is it more of a lower-volume or more of a modest-volume customer?

我想跟進一下奎因的問題。關於第四季度即將投入生產的橫向垂直機會，這是一個大批量客戶嗎？是數量較少的客戶還是數量適中的客戶？

So to be clear, I suggested earlier, the same ChiP-set, which is a 4G chip supports both the lateral and the lateral-vertical. Based on customer inputs expectation as of now is that the lateral implementation will go first. And that's the one we're anticipating for the Q4 ramp. I can't tell you when the other vertical would go into production. But my expectation is that it would be after the lateral.

需要明確的是，我之前建議使用相同的 ChiP-set，即支持橫向和橫向垂直的 4G 芯片。根據目前客戶輸入的預期，橫向實施將首先進行。這就是我們預計第四季度的增長。我無法告訴你其他垂直領域何時投入生產。但我的預期是在橫向之後。

Yes. But is this going to be a significant customer? Or is this more of an incremental volume that you're going to expect?

是的。但這會成為重要客戶嗎？或者這更像是您所期望的增量？

This is a significant customer.

這是一個重要的客戶。

Great. Great. That's excellent. Okay. And Patrizio, do you think your bookings are going to rebound strongly upon completion and the qualification of the new factory?

偉大的。偉大的。那太好了。好的。 Patrizio，您認為新工廠竣工並獲得資質後，您的預訂量會強勁反彈嗎？

We expect bookings to pick up, in particular, the platform we just referenced that ramps. And because of other contributing elements, not least of which, to your point, being online, our first ramp. It's from history, we've had professional challenges and capacity limitations within the last couple of years with Advanced Products relying on unique processes that had to be outsourced.

我們預計預訂量將會回升，特別是我們剛剛提到的平台。還因為其他因素，尤其是，就您而言，在線是我們的第一個坡道。從歷史來看，過去幾年我們遇到了專業挑戰和能力限制，先進產品依賴於必須外包的獨特流程。

So common sense, in and of itself, it would imply that as we overcome these stumbling blocks and bottlenecks and being capable of delivering the kind of solutions that we're uniquely equipped to provide that bookings and backlog will build back up quite substantially. I know there may be a concern at this point in time in the minds of some shareholders. For whatever its worth, it's not my concern.

因此，常識本身意味著，當我們克服這些絆腳石和瓶頸，並有能力提供我們擁有獨特能力的解決方案時，預訂和積壓訂單將大幅增加。我知道，此時此刻，一些股東心中可能存在擔憂。無論它的價值如何，這都不是我關心的。

There's one more question coming from Quinn Bolton on the Webex.

Quinn Bolton 在 Webex 上還提出了一個問題。

Patrizio, I guess I wanted to ask about the recent actions, legal actions against Delta Electronics and Foxconn, I guess, both with the ITC and in the Texas courts. It seems like at least your A-large GPU manufacturer in the industry, current sources modules from Delta Electronics on its late-generation platform, and I'm guessing -- I'd like to know what do you think the potential effect on your relationship with this GPU manufacturer might be to the extent you're going after one of its power module suppliers?

Patrizio，我想我想詢問最近針對台達電子和富士康的訴訟，我想是在國際貿易委員會和德克薩斯州法院提起的訴訟。看起來至少是業內最大的 GPU 製造商，其最新平台上的當前模塊來自 Delta Electronics，我猜 - 我想知道您認為這對您的潛在影響是什麼？與該 GPU 製造商的關係可能​​達到了您要追究其電源模塊供應商之一的程度？

So I'm not going to be specific for obvious reasons. But as implied by public disclosures, and you can read the complaint at the ITC. They're difficult to get to it and find out for yourself. We do have licensees of the technology. And those licensees were prudent enough to acquire a license and put themselves in a position where they could source products, including NBMs, that would otherwise infringe our patents without incurring the risks of infringement.

因此，出於顯而易見的原因，我不會具體說明。但正如公開披露所暗示的那樣，您可以在 ITC 閱讀該投訴。他們很難親自接觸並找出答案。我們確實有該技術的被許可人。這些被許可人非常謹慎地獲得了許可，並使自己能夠採購包括 NBM 在內的產品，否則這些產品會侵犯我們的專利，而不會產生侵權風險。

So you should not assume when it comes to the center or AI OEMs that they're all in the same boat. One -- notable one is not because it's a part of the license. The other ones are going to have to deal with the issues that arise when foreign manufacturers, unscrupulous as they are, copy products that are covered by effective intellectual property.

因此，當談到中心或人工智能 OEM 時，你不應該假設他們都在同一條船上。其一——值得注意的一點並不是因為它是許可證的一部分。其他公司將不得不處理當外國製造商肆無忌憚地複制有效知識產權所涵蓋的產品時所出現的問題。

Understood. And just to further clarify, the Andover qualification, do you still see that as on track for September? And at the shareholder meeting, I think you said that you anticipated an increase in the number of customer visits and customer qualifications as you got to -- into the third quarter here, do you -- is that customer qualification? And is that still on track to those customer audits?

明白了。進一步澄清一下，安多佛資格賽，您是否仍認為九月份的比賽有望進行？在股東大會上，我想您說過，您預計客戶拜訪次數和客戶資格會增加，因為您必須進入第三季度，是嗎？這就是客戶資格嗎？客戶審核是否仍按計劃進行？

We've had customer visits and we've had price for what we're doing, the progress with respect to it. And going back to the first part of your question, yes, we are on track to make complete modules in September, late August, September, so essentially starting about 1 month from now, we're going to be able to play up any chip.

我們進行了客戶拜訪，​​並了解了我們正在做的事情的價格以及相關進展。回到你問題的第一部分，是的，我們有望在 9 月、8 月底、9 月製作完整的模塊，所以基本上從現在開始大約 1 個月，我們將能夠發揮任何芯片。

I will start taking questions on the phone now. (Operator Instructions) First telephone line is open now. Please proceed.

我現在開始通過電話回答問題。 （操作員說明）第一條電話線現已開通。請繼續。

Hi, Patrizio. This is Don McKenna, D.B. McKenna.

嗨，帕特里齊奧。我是唐·麥肯納 (Don McKenna)，D.B.麥肯納。

Good afternoon.

下午好。

I wanted to follow up on the 4G ChiP-set coming on. And we're talking now roughly -- a backlog of roughly 6 months' worth of current run rates. What are you quoting for lead times at this point in time? And do you expect if you're going to ramp in the fourth quarter that you'll be receiving these orders in the third quarter?

我想跟進即將推出的 4G ChiP 設備。我們現在談論的是大約相當於當前運行率 6 個月的積壓訂單。您目前對交貨時間的報價是多少？如果您要在第四季度擴大產能，您是否預計會在第三季度收到這些訂單？

So we already have a backlog for the upcoming ramp, but we expect to get additional backlog. Maybe, Phil, do you want to comment on that?

因此，我們已經為即將到來的升級做好了積壓工作，但我們預計還會有更多積壓工作。也許，菲爾，你想對此發表評論嗎？

No, I think that's exactly right. We have existing backlog and our plan is to obviously begin to ramp with that particular backlog. And then in Q3, Q4, we'll getting increased bookings for the follow-on 2024.

不，我認為這是完全正確的。我們有現有的積壓訂單，我們的計劃顯然是開始增加該特定的積壓訂單。然後在第三季度、第四季度，我們將在 2024 年的後續階段獲得更多預訂。

And have you already seen -- because your backlog is down now, are you quoting shorter lead times? And has that, in turn, generated additional bookings for you?

您是否已經看到，由於您的積壓訂單現在減少了，因此您是否會縮短交貨時間？這反過來又為您帶來了額外的預訂嗎？

So let's put things in perspective. We're still playing catch-up. We're going to be completing the catch-up play this quarter. But we're still, with respect to orders that were placed quite some time ago, because of the capacity bottlenecks that, again, we're aware of and I reminded yourself earlier in the call, we're still playing catch-up. So while that is the case, and that's going to come to an end relatively soon, our lead times are still long. But once we get to that, which is imminent, and once we have the benefit of being in control of our destiny with our first fab, then lead times will come down.

所以讓我們正確看待事情。我們仍在追趕。我們將在本季度完成追趕比賽。但對於很久以前下的訂單，我們仍然在追趕，因為我們再次意識到產能瓶頸，並且我在電話會議的早些時候提醒自己，我們仍在追趕。因此，儘管情況確實如此，而且這種情況很快就會結束，但我們的交貨時間仍然很長。但是，一旦我們達到了迫在眉睫的目標，並且一旦我們受益於通過我們的第一座晶圓廠掌控我們的命運，那麼交貨時間就會縮短。

I guess the concern is when you look at the bookings this past quarter, we're somewhere in the what, $55 million range. Do you foresee a period where the revenues for the quarter are going to diminish? Or do you see them continuing to increase as we're going forward?

我猜想，當你查看上個季度的預訂量時，你會發現我們的擔憂是在 5500 萬美元的範圍內。您預計本季度的收入會減少嗎？或者您認為隨著我們的發展，它們會繼續增加嗎？

I think Jim pointed out that we expect essentially flat revenues this quarter. That's our expectation. Again, to put things in context, if we go back quite some time, we've had an [enormous] situation with respect to bookings, and we pointed this out 1.5 years ago, with very long lead times and capacity bottlenecks. And also in light of general industry conditions, we were -- we had book-to-bill ratios of nearly 2, which are obviously not sustainable. So there's a process that has been going on for some time with a timescale literally of 1 year, 1.5 years of building up the backlog, now bringing it back down towards sustainable level where additional bookings will bring the backlog back up.

我認為吉姆指出，我們預計本季度收入基本持平。這是我們的期望。再說一遍，如果我們回顧很長一段時間，我們在預訂方面遇到了[巨大]的情況，我們在 1.5 年前就指出了這一點，交貨時間很長，而且產能瓶頸。而且考慮到一般行業狀況，我們的訂單出貨比接近 2，這顯然是不可持續的。因此，有一個過程已經持續了一段時間，時間範圍實際上是 1 年，即 1.5 年的積壓訂單，現在將其降至可持續水平，額外的預訂將使積壓訂單回升。

In terms of our turns business and the relationship between the backlog and projected revenues, right now, we're not in a comfortable position. Obviously, we had a lot more backlog a year ago. But again, that was an anomaly rather than a sustainable condition.

就我們的輪換業務以及積壓訂單和預計收入之間的關係而言，目前我們的處境並不舒服。顯然，我們一年前積壓了很多。但同樣，這是一種異常情況，而不是可持續的情況。

Understood. I'm sure you can appreciate our concern or nervousness, if you will, when we see that the incoming orders are so much lower than the revenues for the quarter. And I just hate to see any dips along the way.

明白了。我相信，當我們看到收到的訂單遠低於本季度的收入時，如果您願意的話，您會理解我們的擔憂或緊張。我只是討厭看到一路上出現任何下滑。

I sympathize with -- in effect, the concern of the nervousness is certainly justifiable. But again, it's very important when dislocations of this kind have happened over the last 1.5 years take place to being a safe harbor with an objective view of all of the relevant factors, right? So as pointed out by Phil in his earlier comments, Vicor is uniquely positioned because of the convergence of technological trends that we anticipated, invested in and are uniquely equipped to explore. And that's the safe harbor that we're operating from. And that's basis for looking forward, as suggested in my post to the press release for sustained growth and improving profitability.

我對此表示同情——事實上，這種緊張的擔憂當然是有道理的。但同樣，當過去 1.5 年發生此類錯位時，以客觀的視角看待所有相關因素，成為一個安全港是非常重要的，對嗎？因此，正如 Phil 在之前的評論中指出的那樣，Vicor 處於獨特的地位，因為我們預期、投資並擁有獨特的能力來探索技術趨勢的融合。這就是我們開展業務的安全港。正如我在新聞稿中關於持續增長和提高盈利能力的文章中所建議的那樣，這是展望未來的基礎。

All right. I will now take the second phone question. Please state your name and company name before asking your question.

好的。我現在回答第二個電話問題。提問前請先說明您的姓名和公司名稱。

This is Jon Tanwanteng for CJS. I was wondering if there was any more color or detail behind why the lateral implementation of the product. So this new added product will be launching first. Has there been a delay in the lateral-vertical? Any more commentary would be helpful there.

我是 CJS 的 Jon Tanwanteng。我想知道為什麼要橫向實施該產品背後是否有更多的色彩或細節。所以這個新增加的產品將首先推出。橫向和縱向有延遲嗎？任何更多的評論都會有幫助。

I'm sorry, John, I didn't fully get your question there. You're coming through a little bit muffled. Can you repeat?

抱歉，約翰，我沒有完全理解你的問題。你的經歷有點悶悶不樂。你可以重複嗎？

I was wondering why the lateral-only version of this new product is launching first compared to the higher-performing, lateral-vertical products.

我想知道為什麼與性能更高的橫向垂直產品相比，這款新產品的橫向版本首先推出。

So the lateral version, even though the start of its development was over a year after the start of development based on multi-source, multiphase "competitive alternative" that was, in effect, predicated on the same kind of PDN that the multiphase multi-source solutions are in effect on fine to. But because of the fact that its development, even though it was delayed, still started early in time, as gathered to the finish line ahead of a more advanced PDN, which we have projected to have the benefits is proving out to have, but because of the fact that, that only gets started about 6, 7 months ago from a development perspective, it is following on the heels of a lateral-vertical solution that have been started nearly a year earlier. But it's rapidly catching up and it's proving out to be as good as we had advertised it to be. And in my belief, because of its much stronger trends, again, in terms of not just our system performance, but processor performance, it will soon, I believe, play catch-up and become the social choice.

因此，橫向版本，儘管其開發是在基於多源、多相“競爭性替代方案”的開發開始一年多之後才開始的，實際上，它基於與多相多相相同類型的 PDN。源解決方案就生效了。但由於事實上，儘管它被推遲了，但它的開發仍然很早就開始了，因為在更先進的 PDN 之前就已經到達了終點線，我們預計它會帶來好處，但事實證明它是有好處的，但是因為事實上，從開發角度來看，該解決方案是在大約 6、7 個月前才開始的，它緊隨近一年前啟動的橫向垂直解決方案之後。但它正在迅速迎頭趕上，事實證明它和我們宣傳的一樣好。我相信，由於其更強勁的趨勢，不僅在我們的系統性能方面，而且在處理器性能方面，我相信它很快就會迎頭趕上並成為社會選擇。

Jon, it's Phil. Patrizio said this earlier, it's exactly the same ChiP-set, which is key for the lateral and the lateral-vertical. It's a much, much improved layout better PDN with lateral-vertical placing one of the VTMs underneath the processor that gets the benefit. So we can do that because the packaging is very thin, very thermally adept. So it's got a lot of advantages being the same ChiP-set that gets qualified for the lateral.

喬恩，我是菲爾。 Patrizio 之前說過，這是完全相同的 ChiP-set，這是橫向和橫向垂直的關鍵。這是一個經過大幅改進的佈局，更好的 PDN，橫向垂直地將其中一個 VTM 放置在處理器下方，從而獲得好處。所以我們可以做到這一點，因為包裝非常薄，非常耐熱。因此，與獲得橫向資格的同一 ChiP 組相比，它具有很多優勢。

Can I ask when you actually launched the lateral-vertical product with the same ChiP-set, does that get you a higher dollar content per AI card for this product?

我能問一下，當你們實際推出具有相同 ChiP 集的橫向垂直產品時，這是否會讓該產品的每張 AI 卡獲得更高的美元含量？

No, the ChiP-set has been quoted for over a year now. And that ChiP-set is a price -- a fixed price, and that goes for lateral or lateral-vertical implementations.

不，ChiP 套件的報價已經一年多了。 ChiP-set 是一個價格——一個固定價格，適用於橫向或橫向垂直實施。

But the other vertical implementation, which had been recommended to the customer earlier but did not get started until later, delivers a lot more performance. So the value of decision is much greater, particularly if you look at it in terms of anticipated processor performance.

但另一個垂直實施方案（之前已向客戶推薦但直到後來才開始實施）提供了更多的性能。因此，決策的價值要大得多，特別是如果您從預期的處理器性能角度來看待它。

Got it. Should we think of the lateral product then is similar to a drop and replacement for the existing multiphase solutions or as a second source and maybe your lateral-vertical products get higher performance, higher efficiency type [steel], which may launch later?

知道了。我們是否應該將橫向產品視為類似於現有多相解決方案的放棄和替代，或者作為第二來源，也許您的橫向垂直產品可以獲得更高性能、更高效率的類型[鋼]，這可能會稍後推出？

So the lateral solution using the same ChiP-set is not the "drop-in" because with different components, the layout itself is different, but it shares a common lateral PDN, given fundamentally the floor planning that had been done, which floor planning was, again, predicated on a multi-source, multiphase solution. So we're first in effect within the same general floor plan, fitting in a solution which is better in many respects, mature and nice, better performance, in general, but handicapped by the lateral PDN. So that handicap is a common denominator limitation that can be overcome.

因此，使用相同 ChiP 集的橫向解決方案不是“直接插入”，因為對於不同的組件，佈局本身是不同的，但它共享一個公共橫向 PDN，從根本上考慮已完成的平面規劃，該平面規劃再次以多源、多相解決方案為基礎。因此，我們首先在相同的總體平面圖中發揮作用，安裝一個在許多方面都更好、成熟、良好、性能更好的解決方案，但總體上受到橫向 PDN 的阻礙。因此，這種障礙是一個可以克服的共同點限制。

As Phil pointed out a moment ago, by taking one of the VTMs that supports the primary high current output and redeploying it into a vertical position close to the center of the GPU. And in that location, it can do wonderful things in terms of not just reducing PDN loss for the primary output, but also slash the PDN losses in the secondary and tertiary outputs that are also very current by large percentages, and with that, improve overall system performance. So the outcome of all this effort, which could have started earlier, but it did not get after until 6 months ago, will be a superior system with better performance or...

正如 Phil 剛才指出的，通過將其中一個支持主要大電流輸出的 VTM 重新部署到靠近 GPU 中心的垂直位置。在該位置，它不僅可以減少主要輸出的 PDN 損耗，還可以大幅減少當前也很大比例的二級和三級輸出中的 PDN 損耗，從而提高整體水平系統性能。因此，所有這些努力的結果，本來可以更早開始，但直到 6 個月前才實現，將是一個具有更好性能的卓越系統，或者……

The next question is coming from the line of [John Dillon].

下一個問題來自[約翰·狄龍]。

In the last conference call, you discussed the lateral-vertical that you've got a number of designs that were coming out in the third quarter, I believe. One sounds like was your high-volume customer, existing customer is doing a re-spend that you talked about. But you had, I think 5 other designs that were supposed to come out? Are they still coming out? Or are those slipped? Are they coming out as vertical-lateral or vertical -- I mean, or lateral?

我相信，在上次電話會議中，您討論了第三季度即將推出的橫向和縱向設計。聽起來像是您的大批量客戶，現有客戶正在進行您提到的重新消費。但我想你還有另外 5 種應該推出的設計？他們還出來嗎？或者那些滑倒了？它們是垂直-橫向還是垂直——我的意思是，還是橫向？

Yes. So [John], those are lateral designs. The process occurrence there are lower. They are slightly lower performance applications, different types of workloads. And yes, the customer count there is about the same, 4, 5 customers, but those are lateral implementations. But again, using basically the same technology.

是的。所以[約翰]，這些是橫向設計。那裡的過程發生率較低。它們是性能稍低的應用程序，不同類型的工作負載。是的，那裡的客戶數量大致相同，有 4、5 個客戶，但這些都是橫向實施。但同樣，使用基本相同的技術。

And do you expect those to start production in the third quarter also?

您預計這些產品也會在第三季度開始生產嗎？

No. I expect those to be in production, mostly like Q1 of next year.

不會。我預計這些產品將會投入生產，大部分時間是明年第一季度。

So would we expect -- are those things that you have bookings on orders for already? Or will we see the bookings next quarter for those?

那麼我們是否會期望——您已經預訂了這些東西？或者我們會在下個季度看到這些預訂嗎？

We have a small amount of backlog, maybe a few million dollars, just the early prototype type quantities for initial ramps. And then I expect the bookings for those to be Q3, Q4.

我們有少量的積壓訂單，可能是幾百萬美元，只是用於初始斜坡的早期原型型號數量。然後我預計這些預訂將在第三季度、第四季度進行。

Yes. But they're not as high volume as the other order that you were talking about. Correct?

是的。但它們的數量並不像您所說的其他訂單那麼大。正確的？

Correct.

正確的。

Excellent. Okay. And then when do you expect 5G to actually be production ready?

出色的。好的。那麼您預計 5G 何時才能真正投入生產？

We expect it to have demo systems in Q4 for internal by [tech] and begin to share with some select customers in Q1.

我們預計它會在第四季度由 [tech] 提供內部演示系統，並在第一季度開始與一些選定的客戶共享。

Like, when would you expect that your customers would be able to take those and then ship those to their customers? Are we talking Q2, Q3 next year?

比如，您預計您的客戶什麼時候能夠拿走這些產品，然後將其運送給他們的客戶？我們是在談論明年第二季度、第三季度嗎？

As you know, there's a discussion period, right, from -- availability to customers their own design cycle, which has got [easy time constant], in round numbers, a year. So I should not expect -- we should not expect 5G to be a contributor to revenues in '24. I think a reasonable expectation with respect to 5G contributing to revenues is '25.

如您所知，有一個討論期，對吧，從-向客戶提供他們自己的設計週期，它有[簡單的時間常數]，以整數為單位，一年。所以我不應該期望——我們不應該期望 5G 會成為 24 年收入的貢獻者。我認為 5G 對收入貢獻的合理預期是“25”。

Now having said that, I would say the following, and you might have heard me say this at the shareholders' meeting. With 5G, we are enabling a much more scalable design-in process. And I do expect to have a number of notable applications that have had challenges with [high-care] solutions where, once again, unscrupulous competitors [churn] vertical power delivery. I do expect those to run into trouble because there are immature ways of enabling a vertical power delivery system. And with our 5G technology, we have a much better way of implementing VPD without stacking at the power system level. So there could be situations sometime next year in '24 where we could intersect or come to the rescue or customers that find themselves once again in trouble because of a variety of technical or IP challenges.

話雖如此，我想說的是，你可能在股東大會上聽到過我這樣說。借助 5G，我們實現了更具可擴展性的設計流程。我確實預計會有許多值得注意的應用程序在[高度關注]解決方案方面遇到了挑戰，無良的競爭對手再次[攪動]垂直電力傳輸。我確實預計這些會遇到麻煩，因為實現垂直供電系統的方法還不成熟。借助我們的 5G 技術，我們可以更好地實現 VPD，而無需在電力系統級別進行堆疊。因此，明年 24 世紀的某個時候，我們可能會出現交叉或出手救援的情況，或者由於各種技術或 IP 挑戰而再次陷入困境的客戶。

Got you. Got you. So we may see a competitor come out with a vertical system, but there's IP challenges and there's also technical challenges that you think you're going to run into.

明白你了。明白你了。因此，我們可能會看到競爭對手推出垂直系統，但存在知識產權挑戰，也存在您認為會遇到的技術挑戰。

They have both technical problems and they have IP problems, and normally the kinds of problems they get with NBMs.

他們既有技術問題，也有知識產權問題，通常還有 NBM 遇到的問題。

Why would the customer go with a solution like that if there are technical and IP problems?

如果存在技術和 IP 問題，客戶為什麼要採用這樣的解決方案？

Well, so to some extent, I think the industry is going to go through a period of evolution, right? Because whether it's a technical issue, or it's intellectual property issue, OEMs are dependent on their suppliers to be able to follow through on solutions that can be shipped in that work, technically work in terms of ownership and intellectual property that is at the heart of the solution. And failure to be able to support the customer, an OEM customer, or another one of those fronts, is going to bring about a revolution in the industry. That's my expectation.

嗯，所以在某種程度上，我認為這個行業將經歷一段演變期，對嗎？因為無論是技術問題還是知識產權問題，原始設備製造商都依賴於其供應商能夠跟進可在該工作中交付的解決方案，從技術上講，所有權和知識產權是核心問題解決方案。如果無法為客戶、OEM 客戶或其中的另一個客戶提供支持，將會給行業帶來一場革命。這是我的期望。

All right. I will open the next phone question now. Please proceed. Your line is open.

好的。我現在將打開下一個電話問題。請繼續。您的線路已開通。

Alan Hicks with Ainsley Capital. I had a question about the factory fully up and running. Are you going to be able to hit the ground running in the fourth quarter with this new customer and solely meet their demand?

艾倫·希克斯（Alan Hicks）與安斯利資本（Ainsley Capital）。我有一個關於工廠全面啟動和運行的問題。您是否能夠在第四季度開始與這個新客戶合作並完全滿足他們的需求？

So to be clear, the factory, as a whole, is -- has been up and running. And my earlier comments with respect to the turndown of certain equipment and processes starting at the end of August and into September, those capabilities are incremental capabilities that we haven't had vertically integrated.

需要明確的是，工廠作為一個整體，已經啟動並運行。我之前關於從八月底到九月開始關閉某些設備和流程的評論，這些功能是我們尚未垂直整合的增量功能。

They are expected to be vertically integrated in the next 2 months before the end of this quarter. And that will give us, as I mentioned earlier, total control of our destiny with respect to Advanced Products, in particular, that are dependent on those packaging process steps. But there are many other facets of capacity for which we have made significant investments. And as reflected in all the capital equipment that you're seeing being added within the last 1 year, 1.5 years, that have already been deployed and validated.

預計它們將在本季度末之前的未來兩個月內進行垂直整合。正如我之前提到的，這將使我們完全控制先進產品的命運，特別是依賴於這些封裝工藝步驟的產品。但我們在產能的許多其他方面也進行了大量投資。正如您所看到的在過去 1 年、1.5 年內添加的所有資本設備所反映的那樣，這些設備已經部署和驗證。

So in Q4, do you expect more of a gradual ramp or really move the needle on revenues?

那麼，在第四季度，您預計收入會逐漸增加還是真正有所改善？

Well, I think we're going to have a ramp. And we have the capacity and the equipment to support that ramp.

嗯，我想我們會有一個坡道。我們有能力和設備來支持這個斜坡。

Okay. And then a question on your gross margins, they were up over 4 points this last quarter. What did you attribute that to?

好的。然後是關於毛利率的問題，上個季度毛利率增長了 4 個百分點以上。你把這歸因於什麼？

This is Jim here. That's a function of leverage associated with the volume, increase in volume, and also a favorable mix. And we also have the benefit of lower freight in and tariff costs, net of the $2.8 million duty drawback, as well as a reduction in outside processing costs. All of that added up to improvement in the gross margin.

這是吉姆。這是與交易量、交易量增加以及有利的組合相關的槓桿函數。我們還受益於較低的運費和關稅成本（扣除 280 萬美元的關稅退稅）以及外部加工成本的降低。所有這些都促進了毛利率的改善。

And increased [royalties].

並增加了[特許權使用費]。

Yes, increased royalties as well.

是的，特許權使用費也增加了。

Okay. My next question, you had royalties last quarter, and what were your royalties this quarter? And they tend to be ramping pretty much -- pretty fast over last year. Is that going to be lumpy? Or is that going to continue to grow?

好的。我的下一個問題，上個季度您有版稅，本季度您的版稅是多少？而且與去年相比，它們的增長速度相當快。會不會變成塊狀？還是會繼續增長？

I think you'll see it in the 10-Q when we'll file it on August 4.

我想當我們在 8 月 4 日提交文件時，您會在 10-Q 中看到它。

Let's reserve judgment, okay? So let's put it this way. As you heard him say, over the last 15 years, we made major investments, in the hundreds, several hundred million, million dollars, in technology, all it takes to bring it about. And thus far what we've seen with respect to the ROI in terms of licensing and intellectual property is still early stage in terms of both the number of OEMs involved and their use of that technology. So we should expect to see those numbers go up. You used the word lumpy, yes, it could be lumpy at times. We'll have to wait to see how events unfold with respect to the assertion of our IP and the campaigns that we embarked upon to make sure that it gets fully respected.

我們保留判斷力，好嗎？那麼讓我們這樣說吧。正如你聽到他所說，在過去 15 年裡，我們在技術方面進行了數百、數億、數百萬美元的重大投資，這是實現這一目標所需的一切。到目前為止，我們所看到的許可和知識產權方面的投資回報率，無論是從涉及的原始設備製造商數量還是他們對該技術的使用來看，仍處於早期階段。因此，我們應該預計這些數字會上升。你用了“塊狀”這個詞，是的，有時它可能是塊狀的。我們將不得不等待，看看有關我們知識產權主張的事件如何展開，以及我們為確保其得到充分尊重而開展的活動。

I will take the next phone question now. Please proceed.

我現在將回答下一個電話問題。請繼續。

My question was answered. Thank you, though.

我的問題得到了解答。不過還是謝謝你。

All right. Then I'll open the next question. Your line is open. Please proceed.

好的。那我就打開下一個問題。您的線路已開通。請繼續。

Patrizio, can you give us an estimate of the dollar value of the lost sales due to the infringement?

Patrizio，您能給我們估算一下因侵權而造成的銷售額損失的金額嗎？

I shouldn't say can you, I should say will you?

我不應該說can you，我應該說will you？

So I'm not sure I even can, never mind whether or not it makes sense to go into those kinds of details. Again, the NBM issue is the first issue to be dealt with. And it is significant and -- but again, from NBMs, we're deriving license income as well in a growing amount. So I do expect that the value we have built in IP in the next 10 years is going to be a strong contributor to our top line and even more so to our bottom line. But beyond the very vague statement, it would be really inappropriate of me to make predictions because there is a variety of scenarios and a broad range of outcomes. And I think we need to take a wait and see at it. We do have a very well thought out plan. We've taken the time necessary to think it through in every stack, and we are -- we just began executing it. So let's wait and see what happens.

所以我不確定我是否可以，更不用說探討這些細節是否有意義。再次強調，NBM 問題是首先要解決的問題。這很重要，但同樣，我們從 NBM 中獲得的許可收入也在不斷增長。因此，我確實預計，未來 10 年我們在知識產權方面建立的價值將成為我們營收的重要貢獻者，甚至對我們的利潤貢獻更大。但除了非常模糊的陳述之外，我真的不適合做出預測，因為有各種各樣的情況和廣泛的結果。我認為我們需要等等看。我們確實有一個經過深思熟慮的計劃。我們花了必要的時間在每個堆棧中仔細考慮它，並且我們剛剛開始執行它。所以讓我們拭目以待，看看會發生什麼。

All right. The next phone line is open now. Please proceed.

好的。下一條電話線現已開通。請繼續。

All right. I will move to the next question. Your line is open. Please proceed.

好的。我將轉向下一個問題。您的線路已開通。請繼續。

It's Jon Tanwanteng again. I was wondering if you expected margins to stay at the current levels organically, or is there some part of the clawback that is changing as you move forward, number one? And I have a follow-up after that.

又是喬恩·譚萬騰。我想知道您是否期望利潤率有機地保持在當前水平，或者隨著您的前進，回撥的某些部分是否會發生變化，第一？之後我有一個後續行動。

So I think we'd just say, Jon, as I said in the guidance, we expect gross margins to be approximately flat as well. There is going to be a declining rate of duty drawback because part of it was front-end loaded, a recovery of years' worth of tariffs that would have been paid in the past.

所以我想我們只想說，喬恩，正如我在指導中所說，我們預計毛利率也將大致持平。退稅率將會下降，因為其中一部分是前端加載的，可以收回過去本應支付的多年關稅。

Understood. So the underlying margin should be increasing going forward, if that's the case. Understood. Okay. And then where do you actually expect litigation expense to be in the coming quarters compared to this quarter, or however you want to phrase it?

明白了。因此，如果是這樣的話，未來的基礎利潤率應該會增加。明白了。好的。那麼，與本季度相比，您實際上預計未來幾個季度的訴訟費用會是多少，或者無論您如何表述？

We're not going to be very quantitative about that beyond what Jim said at the outset, which is we're going to have significant legal operating expenses. There may be more actions growth. And so we need to take a wait-and-see attitude with respect to the next year.

除了吉姆一開始所說的之外，我們不會對此進行太多量化，即我們將有大量的法律運營費用。可能會有更多的動作增長。因此，我們需要對明年採取觀望態度。

Understood. And then last one for me. Just the orders for the next-generation products that you're talking about, the lateral-vertical products, do you need your factory to be fully qualified before you see those orders? Or can you ship those currently with the existing capacity regardless of the factory is qualified or not?

明白了。然後是我的最後一張。就你所說的下一代產品的訂單，橫向垂直產品，你需要你的工廠完全合格才能看到這些訂單嗎？還是無論工廠合格與否，現有產能都可以發貨嗎？

No, I think that the 2 pretty much line up, right, because qualification is occurring in the next 4 weeks. And so we're moving forward into Q3, Q4 on a new program. So it's about the same timing sort of lines up pretty well.

不，我認為這 2 個人幾乎都在排隊，對吧，因為資格賽將在接下來的 4 週內進行。因此，我們將進入第三季度、第四季度實施新計劃。因此，在相同的時間安排上，排列得很好。

Okay. The next one is coming from Quinn Bolton.

好的。下一篇來自奎因·博爾頓。

I just wanted to ask a quick follow-up on this new AI platform referenced in Q4. Is that -- should we think about that as sort of a new SKU or Vicor's sole source to factorized power and hopefully, over time, you can convert it to the lateral-vertical solution? Or will there be a second SKU of this product based on multiphase and factorized power will sort of share that business going forward?

我只是想詢問第四季度提到的這個新人工智能平台的快速跟進情況。我們是否應該將其視為一種新的 SKU 或 Vicor 的分比式電源的唯一來源，並希望隨著時間的推移，您可以將其轉換為橫向垂直解決方案？或者，該產品是否會推出第二個基於多相和分比式電源的 SKU，以分享該業務？

So we've been allocated share of what you might call the baseline platform. And that's something that, again, can be supported from a power system performance perspective using a lateral PDN and the [cap] as it is, okay? But again, we have proven that the lateral-vertical is a far superior PDN with major improvements in efficiency. We're not talking -- I mean, typically, power components or power systems within a certain type of PDN differ by 1, 2 percentage points of efficiency. We're talking about this 10% difference. So it dwarfs the minimal differences that often categorize different kinds of components, right? So it's the fundamental difference in the way the power system is architected from the PDN perspective, with major benefits with respect to system performance. And you can, and I can, independently speculate as to what OEM customers would want to do with that. I don't know that -- I would know, or that if I did, I could tell you.

因此，我們被分配了所謂的基準平台的份額。同樣，從電力系統性能的角度來看，可以使用橫向 PDN 和 [cap] 來支持這一點，好嗎？但我們再次證明，橫向-垂直是一種優越得多的 PDN，效率顯著提高。我們不是在談論——我的意思是，通常情況下，某種類型的 PDN 中的電源組件或電源系統的效率相差 1、2 個百分點。我們正在談論這 10% 的差異。因此，它使通常對不同類型的組件進行分類的最小差異相形見絀，對吧？因此，從 PDN 角度來看，這是電源系統架構方式的根本區別，在系統性能方面具有重大優勢。你可以，我也可以，獨立推測 OEM 客戶想要用它做什麼。我不知道——我會知道，或者如果我知道，我可以告訴你。

Yes. One thing I'd want to say, Quinn, would be, our job is to obviously give our customer options, right? And I think the lateral-vertical gives the customer a great option in terms of increasing performance for GPUs that are limited by the lateral PDN. So -- and again, it's very important to remember, it's about 100-watt savings per AI card. You have 8 of these in a rack system. That's 800 watts of power savings; it's huge. And so you can really start to go after GPU performance with those savings. So we've given customer options, we'll see what happens.

是的。奎因，我想說的一件事是，我們的工作顯然是為客戶提供選擇，對吧？我認為橫向-垂直為客戶提供了一個很好的選擇，可以提高受橫向 PDN 限制的 GPU 的性能。因此，再次強調，每張 AI 卡大約可節省 100 瓦的電量，記住這一點非常重要。機架系統中有 8 個這樣的設備。相當於節省了 800 瓦的電量；它超大。因此，您可以真正開始利用這些節省來追求 GPU 性能。因此，我們已經為客戶提供了選擇，我們將看看會發生什麼。

And we have our very last question coming from [John Dillon].

我們的最後一個問題來自[約翰·狄龍]。

A follow-up to Quinn's question. For your -- with this new customer or this existing customer, I mean, that is going initially with vertical and then -- I mean, initially with lateral than lateral-vertical. Will that customer see an improvement in performance with your lateral solution, your later-only solution? Will we still have problems with resets and then throttling the clock?

奎因問題的後續。對於你的——對於這個新客戶或這個現有客戶，我的意思是，最初是垂直的，然後——我的意思是，最初是橫向的而不是橫向垂直的。該客戶會看到您的橫向解決方案（僅用於後期的解決方案）的性能改進嗎？我們還會遇到重置然後限制時鐘的問題嗎？

What we've seen and reported back to us from the engineering teams looking at this is that our version of lateral is a better version. It's higher performance.

我們看到並從工程團隊向我們報告的情況是，我們的橫向版本是更好的版本。它的性能更高。

So they won't see the degradation as much as they're seeing with the multiphase solution.

因此，他們不會看到像多相解決方案那樣嚴重的退化。

Yes. It's a better solution. Let me put it that way.

是的。這是一個更好的解決方案。讓我這樣說吧。

But just to be clear, the PDN tends to be an equalizer, right? If you get enough handicap, it tends to play in the capping role all around. And that's really the elephant in the room, it's the handicap associated with the PDN.

但需要澄清的是，PDN 往往是一個均衡器，對吧？如果你有足夠的讓分，它往往會在各個方面發揮限製作用。這確實是房間裡的大象，是與 PDN 相關的障礙。

Right. But it sounds like your lateral solution, lateral-only, is going to give a little bit better PDN than the existing solution. Am I correct in assuming that? Or am I hearing that? Or...

正確的。但聽起來您的橫向解決方案（僅限橫向）將提供比現有解決方案更好的 PDN。我的假設正確嗎？還是我聽到了？或者...

Let me answer it this way. I would not expect the differences in performance between a lateral multisource, multiphase and a lateral factorized power system at these current levels to be all that significant on the scale of the benefit of the other vertical. In other words, another vertical removes the handicap that is fundamentally limiting our system capability and processor performance.

讓我這樣回答吧。我不認為在這些電流水平下橫向多源、多相和橫向分比式電力系統之間的性能差異與其他垂直系統的優勢相比不會那麼顯著。換句話說，另一個垂直領域消除了從根本上限制我們的系統能力和處理器性能的障礙。

Correct. I'm trying to understand why the customer would switch from their current multiphase solution to your lateral solution as an interim. Why wouldn't they just wait for your lateral-vertical?

正確的。我試圖了解為什麼客戶會從當前的多相解決方案過渡到您的橫向解決方案。他們為什麼不等待你的橫向垂直呢？

Because the lateral gets started earlier. Even though it gets started late, it still gets started earlier than the lateral-vertical.

因為橫向起步較早。儘管它開始得晚，但它仍然比橫向-垂直開始得早。

And they need suppliers.

他們需要供應商。

Okay. They need suppliers, too. Got you. Okay. And it sounds like -- is this truly the end of the line for multiphase? I mean multiphase keeps making improvements. So I'm just wondering, is this really the end of the line for that?

好的。他們也需要供應商。明白你了。好的。聽起來——這真的是多相技術的終結嗎？我的意思是多相不斷改進。所以我只是想知道，這真的是終點嗎？

Is it the end of the line for multiphase?

這是多相線的終點嗎？

No. It's not the end of the line for multiphase, right? It's -- multiphase has been around for a long time, and it will not suddenly die. There is a lot of case, but you have me say this before, it can't keep up with the performance of a factorized power system, particularly leveraging our 5G components with a 3x step up in condensity and much better performance all around.

不，這還不是多相技術的終點，對吧？它——多相已經存在很長時間了，它不會突然消亡。有很多案例，但我之前說過，它無法跟上分比式電源系統的性能，特別是利用我們的 5G 組件，其密度提高了 3 倍，並且性能全面提高。

Nor can it keep up with the industry demands with respect to escalating [cost] requirements producing voltages for all the competing AI systems that are under development are going to be brought to market over the next few years. I see a fundamental disconnect between what the systems are going to need and what multisource, multiphase can support, particularly as we get into full vertical power delivery type of systems, i.e. fast lateral, even fast lateral-vertical.

它也無法跟上行業對不斷升級的[成本]要求，為所有正在開發的競爭性人工智能係統提供電壓，這些系統將在未來幾年內推向市場。我發現系統所需的內容與多源、多相可以支持的內容之間存在根本脫節，特別是當我們進入完全垂直電力傳輸類型的系統時，即快速橫向，甚至快速橫向垂直。

As you get into a full vertical system, these kinds of solutions, the multiphase, multisource are going to be constrained from complexities, challenges of what we call first-generation VPD, which Vicor pioneered and patented. But we have left behind with our 5G approach, which makes the whole VPD solution much simpler, much better, much more cost effective.

當您進入一個完整的垂直系統時，此類解決方案、多相、多源將受到 Vicor 首創並獲得專利的第一代 VPD 的複雜性和挑戰的限制。但我們已經放棄了 5G 方法，這使得整個 VPD 解決方案變得更簡單、更好、更具成本效益。

So there are handicaps at different levels standing in the way of multiphase. It's the multiphase conversion methodology, the averaging down as opposed to the current multiplication. It's also the PDN and then there is a VPD element to it with related IT issues that is also a standing block.

因此，多階段的發展存在不同程度的障礙。這是多相轉換方法，即向下平均而不是電流乘法。它也是 PDN，然後有一個 VPD 元素，其中包含相關的 IT 問題，這也是一個常設塊。

Got you. So with the higher current levels, you really don't expect to see the multiphase making much progress.

明白你了。因此，隨著電流水平的提高，您實際上不會期望看到多相技術取得太大進展。

I don't expect it to go away. I think it's going to remain an alternative, but I am confident that the technology gap between the factorized power system solutions using early-generation components on the one hand and our 5G ChiP-set capabilities that, that technology gap relative to multiphase has improved, as we should all expect it to be. But those improvements are not going to be able to keep up with the step-up in performance that we're going to deliver next year with 5G.

我不指望它會消失。我認為它仍將是一種替代方案，但我相信，一方面使用早期組件的分比式電源系統解決方案與我們的 5G ChiP 集功能之間的技術差距，相對於多相的技術差距已經改善，正如我們都應該期望的那樣。但這些改進將無法跟上我們明年將通過 5G 實現的性能提升。

Okay. Thank you, everyone. Operator, I think we're ready to end the call now.

好的。謝謝大家。接線員，我想我們現在可以結束通話了。

All right. Everyone, that concludes your webinar for today. Thank you for joining, and have a nice day.

好的。各位，今天的網絡研討會到此結束。感謝您的加入，祝您有美好的一天。