UWM Holdings Corp (UWMC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning.

早安.

My name is Christina, and I'll be your conference operator today.

我叫克里斯蒂娜，今天我將擔任您的會議主持人。

At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the UWM Holdings Corporation third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

現在，我歡迎大家參加 UWM Holdings Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Thank you.

謝謝。

Blake Kolo, you may begin your conference.

布萊克·科洛，您可以開始您的會議了。

Good morning.

早安.

This is Blake Kolo, Chief Business Officer and Head of Investor Relations.

這是首席商務官兼投資者關係主管 Blake Kolo。

Thank you for joining us today, and welcome to the third-quarter 2024 UWM Holding Corporation's earnings call.

感謝您今天加入我們，歡迎參加 UWM Holding Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

Before we start, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call includes forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議包含前瞻性陳述。

For more information about factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from forward-looking statements, please refer to the earnings release that we issued this morning.

有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述存在重大差異的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們今天上午發布的收益報告。

Our commentary today will also include non-GAAP financial metrics.

我們今天的評論還將包括非 GAAP 財務指標。

For information on our non-GAAP financial metrics and the reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP metrics for the reported results, please refer to the earnings release issued earlier today as well as our filings with the SEC.

有關我們的非公認會計準則財務指標以及報告結果的公認會計準則和非公認會計準則指標之間的調節的信息，請參閱今天早些時候發布的收益報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

I will now turn the call over to Matt Ishbia, Chairman and CEO of UWM Holdings Corporation, United Wholesale Mortgage.

現在，我將電話轉給 UWM Holdings Corporation 和 United Wholesale Mortgage 的董事長兼執行長 Matt Ishbia。

Thanks, Blake, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today.

謝謝，布萊克，也謝謝大家今天的參與。

Over the past couple of years, two of our main goals have been very clear: growing UWM in the broker channel market share, buy and dominate the purchase and investing and preparing for the next refi boom while others in this industry are cutting staff and track investment just to survive today.

在過去的幾年裡，我們的兩個主要目標一直非常明確：增加 UWM 在經紀通路市場的份額，買入並主導購買和投資，為下一次再融資熱潮做準備，而這個行業的其他公司正在裁員和跟踪投資以求生存。

Today, I can say with full confidence that achieved both, our share growth and purchase dominance is undisputed.

今天，我可以滿懷信心地說，我們的份額成長和購買主導地位是無可爭議的。

In fact, our purchase market share has grown about 300% since 2019.

事實上，自 2019 年以來，我們的採購市佔率成長了約 300%。

And historically, whenever we have grown purchase market share, we have kept it.

從歷史上看，每當我們的購買市場份額增加時，我們都會保持這一份額。

So we feel really great about our positioning there.

因此，我們對自己在那裡的定位感到非常滿意。

Now, the refi boom is not fully materialized, but we have seen a preview of it and we're able to capitalize it on it instantly while others were caught flat-footed.

現在，再融資熱潮尚未完全實現，但我們已經看到了它的預覽，並且能夠立即利用它，而其他人則措手不及。

Preparation is the key to winning.

準備是獲勝的關鍵。

Best teams in sports and in business find a way to win in the present while preparing for the future.

體育界和商界最優秀的團隊在為未來做準備的同時，也找到了目前的獲勝方法。

And that's what we have done here.

這就是我們在這裡所做的。

I couldn't be prouder to lead a team that has been the unanimous number one lender for three consecutive years now along with the top purchase lender for four years and the top wholesaler for a decade now.

我非常自豪能夠領導一支團隊，該團隊連續三年被一致評為第一貸款機構，連續四年被評為第一採購貸款機構，連續十年被評為第一批發商。

We are damning the mortgage industry and we're really proud of where we stand, are excited for the focus on the years ahead.

我們正在譴責抵押貸款行業，我們為我們的立場感到自豪，並對未來幾年的重點感到興奮。

Now let's talk about the third quarter.

現在我們來談談第三季。

We closed with $39.5 billion of total production, which is our biggest quarter in three years and well above our guidance.

我們最終實現了 395 億美元的總產值，這是我們三年來最大的季度產值，遠高於我們的預期。

Importantly, this total production primarily reflects another dominant purchase quarter with over $26 billion in purchase production.

重要的是，這一總產量主要反映了另一個主導的購買季度，其購買產量超過 260 億美元。

Notably, we also closed $13.3 billion in refis, which is our biggest refi quarter in a couple of years and a clear indicator that when the market returns to a -- a refi market fully returns, we will succeed in that as well.

值得注意的是，我們還完成了 133 億美元的再融資，這是我們幾年來最大的再融資季度，這清楚地表明，當市場恢復到再融資市場完全回歸時，我們也將取得成功。

Our gain margin was 118 basis points, also well ahead of our guidance, another indication when refis come, our margin will grow along with our volume.

我們的獲利率為 118 個基點，也遠高於我們的預期，這也顯示當再融資到來時，我們的利潤率將隨著交易量的成長而成長。

We generated net income of almost $32 million which is inclusive of $446 million decline of fair value of MSRs which as you know, is tied to changing interest rates, and has nothing to do with how we operate our business.

我們實現了近 3,200 萬美元的淨收入，其中包括 4.46 億美元的 MSR 公允價值下降，如您所知，這與利率變化有關，與我們的業務運作方式無關。

So to be profitable a quarter like that with that big of an MSR hit is really unheard of and it speaks to the strength of our business.

因此，在 MSR 受到如此巨大衝擊的情況下，還能在一個季度內實現盈利，這確實是聞所未聞，這證明了我們業務的實力。

We're also pleased with the adoption we saw of many of our tools and technologies into the quarter.

我們也很高興看到我們的許多工具和技術在本季度被採用。

TRAC+ usually increased.

TRAC+ 通常會增加。

It's a great technology and tool that helps brokers save consumers' money.

這是一項偉大的技術和工具，可以幫助經紀人節省消費者的錢。

PA plus continues to gain traction.

PA plus 繼續受到青睞。

BOLT technology continues to change the industry standards by allowing brokers to have initial approval and qualified borrowers in 15 minutes left.

BOLT 技術繼續改變行業標準，允許經紀人在 15 分鐘內獲得初步批准並獲得合格的借款人。

And of course, Chat UWM, our AI power technology.

當然，還有我們的 AI 動力技術 Chat UWM。

So many of these technology tools are being utilized and used more and more which is helping the brokers win.

這些技術工具越來越被利用，幫助經紀人成功。

Remember with as much business as we did in 2020 and '21, these technologies that add efficiency to our business and the brokers just did not exist at the time.

請記住，儘管我們在 2020 年和 21 年開展了眾多業務，但這些為我們的業務和經紀人提高效率的技術當時並不存在。

Additionally, Mortgage Matchup continue to see increased traffic.

此外，Mortgage Matchup 的流量持續增加。

Americans can save money and find a mortgage broker.

美國人可以省錢並找到抵押貸款經紀人。

This has been a huge success so far and we continue to see more and more people go there.

到目前為止，這是一個巨大的成功，我們看到越來越多的人去那裡。

In our latest effort to help grow the brokerage channel, BrokerX which was announced in the third quarter is off to a great start helping brokers training license new loan officers.

在我們幫助發展經紀管道的最新舉措中，第三季宣布的 BrokerX 取得了良好的開端，幫助經紀人培訓許可新的貸款人員。

UWM and the whole broker community are in a great position to continue winning now while being prepared for what's to come.

UWM 和整個經紀人社區目前處於有利地位，可以在為未來做好準備的同時繼續獲勝。

I'll now turn things over to Andrew Hubacker, our CFO.

現在我將把事情交給我們的財務長 Andrew Hubacker。

Thank you, Matt.

謝謝你，馬特。

Our momentum for the year continued in the third quarter as we reported positive GAAP net income and remain profitable operationally and on an adjusted EBITDA basis for the quarter and year to date despite the impact to MSR values of the decline in market interest rates.

我們今年的發展勢頭在第三季度得以延續，我們報告了正的 GAAP 淨收入，並且儘管市場利率下降對 MSR 價值產生了影響，但本季度和年初至今，我們仍然保持著運營盈利和調整後 EBITDA 盈利。

Total production volume of $100.8 billion year to date is an approximate 20% increase from the same period in 2023.

今年迄今的總產量為 1,008 億美元，比 2023 年同期成長約 20%。

Year to date, gain margin increased to 111 basis points from 92 basis points last year.

年初至今，獲利幅度從去年的 92 個基點增加至 111 個基點。

We have continued to invest significantly in the people, processes, and technology which we think prepare us well for the next market cycle and these increases in volume and gain margins have allowed us to maintain operational profitability while making these investments.

我們繼續對人才、流程和技術進行大量投資，我們認為這為我們迎接下一個市場週期做好了充分的準備，而這些銷售和利潤率的提高使我們能夠在進行這些投資的同時保持營運盈利能力。

As to our balance sheet and liquidity position, we ended the third quarter with total cash of over $600 million and only $300 million outstanding on our lines of credit.

至於我們的資產負債表和流動性狀況，在截止第三季末，我們的現金總額超過 6 億美元，而我們的信用額度未償還金額僅為 3 億美元。

There were few additional MSR sales executed during the third quarter but most of our MSR and excess sales for the year were front loaded to the first half.

第三季執行的額外 MSR 銷售很少，但我們今年的大部分 MSR 和超額銷售都是在上半年進行的。

Year to date, net cash proceeds from MSR sales approximated $2.6 billion and we ended Q3 with an MSR portfolio of approximately $212 billion.

年初至今，MSR 銷售的淨現金收益約為 26 億美元，截至第三季末，我們的 MSR 投資組合價值約為 2,120 億美元。

Total accessible liquidity approximated $2.5 billion at the end of the quarter including cash and available borrowing capacity.

截至本季末，包括現金和可用借貸能力在內的總可用流動資金約為 25 億美元。

And our total equity, capital and leverage ratios continue to be at acceptable levels in the current environment.

在當前環境下，我們的總股本、資本和槓桿率仍然處於可接受的水平。

Overall, we believe that we remain well positioned with more than sufficient liquidity to capitalize on future market opportunities.

總體而言，我們相信我們仍然擁有充足的流動性來利用未來的市場機會。

Okay.

好的。

I will now turn things back over to our Chairman, President and CEO, Matt Ishbia for closing remarks.

現在，我將把會議交還給我們的董事長、總裁兼執行長 Matt Ishbia，請他作最後發言。

Thanks, Andrew.

謝謝，安德魯。

I'll close with a few points.

最後我想談幾點。

The brokerage channel through this year has achieved its highest market share since 2009.

今年以來經紀通路的市佔率達到了2009年以來的最高水準。

And a part of that is attributed to the amazing loan officers in the industry and the service we provide.

其中一部分歸功於業界出色的貸款人員和我們提供的服務。

But it's also because we save the consumers thousands of dollars in many situations and make the process faster, easier and cheaper for consumers.

但這也是因為我們在許多情況下為消費者節省了數千美元，並使消費者的流程變得更快、更輕鬆、更便宜。

Mortgage brokers are the best place for consumers and consumers are realizing that day over day.

抵押貸款經紀人是消費者的最佳去處，消費者也日復一日地意識到了這一點。

One other major differentiator at UWM I want to mention is since 2016, none of my direct reports have left the company outside of the passing of our CFO, Tim Forrester.

我想提一下 UWM 的另一個主要區別是，自 2016 年以來，除了財務長 Tim Forrester 去世外，我的直接下屬都沒有離開公司。

We have consistency in leadership continuity and we've grown and built this business together as a team.

我們的領導層保持了連續性，我們作為一個團隊共同成長和建立這項業務。

This is a big differentiator in all industries, but definitely in our mortgage industry as most of my competitors have major turnover at the higher end of the executive team.

這在所有行業中都是一個很大的區別，但在我們的抵押貸款行業中絕對如此，因為我的大多數競爭對手的高階主管團隊的高層流動都很大。

Another point is about the strength of our purchase business. 2024 is on track to be the lowest year of existing home sales since 1995 yet through three quarters, we've delivered nearly $75 billion of purchase production and we're on track to break the full year all time purchase production record.

還有一點是關於我們採購業務的實力。 2024 年預計將成為自 1995 年以來現房銷售最低的一年，但截至前三個季度，我們已實現近 750 億美元的購買量，並且有望打破全年歷史購買量記錄。

Think about that, it makes me really excited to see what we're capable of when the purchase market rebounds in 2025 and beyond with lower rates and more inventory.

想想看，我真的很興奮地看到，當 2025 年及以後購買市場在利率更低、庫存更多的情況下反彈時，我們能夠做些什麼。

I'll reiterate something I said in the last call, our focus is on making the broker channel number one, which means the broker channels share higher than 50% which is almost double where it is today.

我重申我在上次電話會議中說過的話，我們的重點是讓經紀人管道成為第一，這意味著經紀人管道的份額將超過 50%，幾乎是今天的兩倍。

But regardless of what the market does, we'll succeed.

但無論市場如何，我們都會成功。

If rates stay higher, we'll continue to grow share.

如果利率保持在高位，我們的份額將繼續增長。

And if rates go lower, we'll make a lot more money and continue to win.

如果利率下降，我們將賺更多的錢並繼續獲勝。

As I said, many times, we are built for the long term and we're really ready and able to embrace all cycles.

正如我所說，很多時候，我們都是為了長遠而建立的，我們真的準備好並且能夠擁抱所有的週期。

Before I talk about the guidance, I want to talk about the market in the third quarter.

在談論指引之前，我想談談第三季的市場。

As I said before, I see 3.75 as a key level on the 10 year.

正如我之前所說，我認為 3.75 是 10 年期的關鍵水準。

If it glows below that, we have a massive, massive opportunity.

如果它低於這個水平，我們就有一個巨大的機會。

In this quarter, it didn't quite get there.

本季度，它還沒有完全實現這一目標。

And now it's back up to 4.40, 4.50, wherever it is right now.

現在它又回升至 4.40、4.50，無論它現在處於什麼位置。

But it is bordered with the 3.75 levels for a couple of weeks and that's why we were able to post such a big refi number in the quarter.

但有幾週，該數字一直徘徊在 3.75 的水平，這就是我們能夠在本季度公佈如此大的再融資數字的原因。

Basically, we've got a two to three week window stress test and to see what our performance would look like on a longer term refi market and what our margin will look like and how much production we can do and how we'll maintain it.

基本上，我們進行了為期兩到三週的窗口壓力測試，以了解我們在長期再融資市場上的表現如何、我們的利潤率如何、我們能夠生產多少以及如何維持這種產量。

So now you saw a little glimpse and that's why our third quarter was so great across the board from an origination perspective and again, on sale.

現在您已經看到了一點，這就是為什麼我們的第三季從發起角度和銷售角度來看都如此出色。

Think about the stock for a moment.

想一想股票。

We feel really great about where we're at.

我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意。

We've increased the float.

我們增加了浮動量。

We've proven that we've consistently paid a dividend, which is now 6%, 7% based on what the stock price is.

我們已經證明，我們一直在持續支付股息，目前股息率為 6% 到 7%，具體取決於股票價格。

And I just laid out a pretty strong case for what the future of our business looks like not only because we understand the markets and where the 10 year probably will be with the Fed cuts and all the things that are going to happen.

我剛剛對我們的業務未來前景給出了非常有力的論據，這不僅是因為我們了解市場，也知道在美聯儲降息和所有即將發生的事情的影響下，未來 10 年可能會出現什麼情況。

But just our business and how we're prepared for the refi boom.

但這只是我們的業務以及我們如何為再融資熱潮做好準備。

We've seen a little glimpse and we feel great about where we're at.

我們已經看到了一點端倪，並且對我們所處的位置感到非常滿意。

It's a time to be part of the UWM team.

現在是加入 UWM 團隊的時候了。

Turning to guidance, we expect our third quarter production to be between $34 billion and $41 billion and I continue to see the market and profitability strengthening and I feel really confident that our gain margin will basically remain between 85 basis points and 110 basis points and we will continue to do great things.

談到指引，我們預計第三季的產值將在 340 億美元至 410 億美元之間，我繼續看到市場和盈利能力的增強，我非常有信心我們的收益率基本上將保持在 85 個基點至 110 個基點之間，我們將繼續做偉大的事情。

I want to thank our team members, clients, shareholders and we're going to continue to win together here at UWM.

我要感謝我們的團隊成員、客戶、股東，我們將繼續在 UWM 共同獲勝。

Now let's turn over to Q&A and we'll go from there.

現在我們進入問答環節，我們將從這裡開始。

(Operator Instructions) Derek Sommers, Jefferies.

(操作員指示) Derek Sommers，傑​​富瑞。

In the EBITDA bridge, is the line item gain on other interest rate derivatives related to hedging the MSR?

在 EBITDA 橋中，其他利率衍生性商品的專案收益是否與對沖 MSR 有關？

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks for the question, Derek.

謝謝你的提問，德里克。

No, it's not.

不，不是的。

We don't really hedge MSRs.

我們實際上並未對 MSR 進行對沖。

We do a lot of everything.

我們做了很多事。

We sell our MSRs.

我們銷售我們的 MSR。

We've gone through a lot of different things over the last couple of years that we talked about on how we believe MSRs obviously selling a lot of our higher wax stuff has turned out to be very positive and in a good way for our business.

過去幾年我們經歷了很多不同的事情，我們談到了我們如何相信 MSR 顯然銷售大量高蠟產品，這對我們的業務來說非常積極和有利。

The interest rate derivative is something that we look at and we look at all the time.

我們時刻都在關注利率衍生性商品。

Sometimes we'll be positive, sometimes negative.

我們有時會積極，有時會消極。

We look at different ways of understanding the market, analyzing the market and addressing the market.

我們研究了解市場、分析市場和應對市場的不同方式。

And so I don't look at it as a hedge.

所以我並不將其視為一種對沖。

We don't really hedge our MSRs, but there is obviously some opposite trends based on the MSRs.

我們實際上並沒有對 MSR 進行對沖，但根據 MSR 顯然存在一些相反的趨勢。

Sometimes we put out that interest rate derivative, but that's a decision we make with our risk committee, our CFO, myself on when we do that, when we don't do that and how we run the business.

有時我們會推出利率衍生性商品，但這是我們與風險委員會、財務長以及我自己共同做出的決定，包括何時這樣做、何時不這樣做以及我們如何經營業務。

And then in terms of gain on sale margins in the quarter, kind of what were the puts and takes dragging a higher quarter over quarter?

那麼，就本季的銷售利潤率而言，哪些因素導致了本季的銷售利潤率較上季成長？

Yeah.

是的。

Well, like I said, you got a little glimpse of whatever the three weeks where the 10 year was close to where we talked about where refis became a thing.

好吧，就像我說的，在過去的三個星期裡，你已經對十年期國債殖利率接近我們談論的再融資成為現實的情況有了一點了解。

And when refis become a thing, as I've been saying, for years, our margins will go up and our volume will go up.

正如我多年來一直在說的那樣，當再融資成為現實時，我們的利潤率將會上升，我們的業務量也會上升。

And so we kind of got a little glimpse of that where we've probably been more in our range that I guided towards the last quarter and this quarter based on where the 10 year was and then it dropped down.

因此，我們對此有了一些了解，我們可能更多地處於我根據 10 年期情況預測的上個季度和本季度的範圍內，然後它就下降了。

We took advantage of it, our brokers took advantage of it.

我們利用了這一點，我們的經紀人也利用了這一點。

We all did very well.

我們都做得很好。

And so the gain on sale margin got propped up because of that along with the volume.

因此，銷售利潤的收益隨著銷售量的增加而得到支撐。

So I think it's a great glimpse into the future.

所以我認為這是對未來的美好展望。

We all believe that the tenure will be down below 4, blow below 3.75 over the next 6, 12, 18 months potentially or longer.

我們都相信，未來 6、12、18 個月或更長時間內，利率將降至 4 以下，甚至可能跌破 3.75。

And you can kind of see that our volume and our gain on sale will go up just as we've been saying for years.

您可以看到，我們的銷售和銷售收益將會上升，正如我們多年來所說的那樣。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯喬治，KBW。

I just wanted to follow up on the gain on sale.

我只是想追蹤一下銷售收益。

Can you just talk about trends you're seeing in the fourth quarter now with this -- with the backup in rates and seasonality as well?

您能否談談現在第四季的趨勢—以及利率和季節性的回升？

Yeah.

是的。

To fish the question, obviously, once again, I -- that guided to the way I guided, based on understanding where the market is right now versus where it was in August and early September, right?

為了解決這個問題，顯然，我再次指導了這個問題，基於對當前市場狀況與 8 月和 9 月初市場狀況的了解，對嗎？

So obviously that August and early September rates give us an opportunity to make a little bit more on margin.

因此顯然八月和九月初的利率為我們提供了更多利潤的機會。

Also we have a lot of other ancillary products that we talked about.

我們也討論了許多其他輔助產品。

I mentioned PA plus and TRAC+ and some of these things that are adding margin onto the bottom line or top line.

我提到了 PA plus 和 TRAC+，以及一些可以增加底線或頂線利潤的東西。

However, you want to think about that as well.

然而，你也想考慮一下這一點。

But we see where the market is right now and I think I guided to the right area, 85 basis points to 110 basis points.

但是我們看到了當前的市場狀況，我認為我引導到了正確的區域，即 85 個基點到 110 個基點。

And as you've seen over the last couple of years, I've kind of moved it up different levels and look at it and when the 10 year drops a little more and rates move and we obviously the Fed probably dropped rates today, so we'll see how that moves and then the markets rallying a little this morning.

正如您在過去幾年中看到的，我將其提升到了不同的水平並進行了觀察，當 10 年期國債進一步下跌並且利率發生變化時，我們顯然看到美聯儲今天可能下調了利率，因此我們將觀察其走勢，然後市場在今天上午會小幅反彈。

We adjust and so I try to give you as much knowledge and information and accuracy on the gain on sale margin area every time I speak to you guys.

我們會進行調整，因此每次與你們交談時，我都會盡量向你們提供有關銷售利潤率領域收益的盡可能多的知識、資訊和準確性。

And that's kind of where I see it right this second.

這就是我此刻所看到的情況。

It can change quickly.

它可以快速改變。

It can go to 10 years, it'll go to 475, then, it'll go to 3.75. The margin will move.

它可以達到 10 年，然後達到 475，然後達到 3.75。邊距將會移動。

And the nice part for you guys to understand what I said at the very beginning was we're prepared to handle the volume where other places are not.

你們能理解我在一開始說的話，這很好，因為我們準備好處理其他地方無法處理的數量。

And so we've been building our business to be prepared for doubling our company literally can we double our company and that's very realistic.

因此，我們一直在建立我們的業務，為公司規模翻一番做好準備。

That's what I said about the stock.

這就是我對股票的看法。

Like we're in a great, great position, we're making money, we're doing great stock pays a dividend, 6 7% whatever it is right now, based on how low the price is and we're like completely in control of the business ready to double potentially, right?

就像我們處於一個非常好的地位，我們正在賺錢，我們做得很好，股票支付股息，無論現在是多少，都是 6 7％，這取決於價格有多低，我們完全控制著業務，準備翻倍，對吧？

That might be an extreme, but it might not be to be honest.

這可能有些極端，但說實話也許並非如此。

So it's a huge opportunity to do $40 billion, $50 billion, $60 billion quarters when rates drop.

因此，當利率下降時，這是一個實現 400 億美元、500 億美元、600 億美元季度收入的巨大機會。

And in the meantime, we'll plug away and dominate in the purchase market like we have been.

同時，我們也會像以前一樣努力奮鬥，在採購市場中佔據主導地位。

And then actually just one on the ancillary products.

實際上只有一個輔助產品。

Can you just talk, you mentioned TRAC, and TRAC+, how's the traction on those products going?

您能談談嗎，您提到了 TRAC 和 TRAC+，這些產品的吸引力如何？

It's going well, those products are going well, just like anything you got to get adoption of our clients, you got to make sure you execute at the highest level and then you got to continue to build it.

一切進展順利，這些產品進展順利，就像任何你需要得到客戶採用的東西一樣，你必須確保以最高水平執行，然後你必須繼續建造它。

So it's going as planned, we wanted to make sure those products were out ready to roll prior to the boom and they are and then how do we ratchet that up and grow?

所以一切都按計劃進行，我們希望確保這些產品在繁榮之前準備好推出，然後我們如何提升和發展它們？

It's not going to be a huge gain on sale difference.

這不會帶來巨大的銷售收益差異。

But it is just another way to help consumers save money, help brokers differentiate themselves and make it so that people want to work with UWM.

但這只是幫助消費者省錢、幫助經紀人脫穎而出、讓人們願意與 UWM 合作的另一種方式。

And so it's a win, win, win.

所以這是一場勝利，勝利，勝利。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

Well, just looking at the adjusted EBITDA, would you say that that's a good reflection of your cash earnings?

那麼，僅從調整後的 EBITDA 來看，您是否認為這很好地反映了您的現金收益？

Are there any considerations which might kind of affect the the cash earnings relative to that number?

有哪些考慮因素可能會影響相對於該數字的現金收入？

And is the cash flow that's generated from selling MSR is also reflected in the adjusted EBITDA figure?

出售 MSR 產生的現金流量是否也反映在調整後的 EBITDA 數字？

Yeah, I really don't look at it that way, Eric.

是的，艾瑞克，我確實不這麼認為。

Andrew, if you want to comment on it just in general.

安德魯，如果你想對此發表一般性評論。

But I don't -- that's not -- it's not a reflection of the cash flow based on MSRs and how you keep MSRs with whether it's with the different capitalization of it, it doesn't really tie to cash flow but Andrew you want to.

但我不知道 — — 那不是 — — 它不是基於 MSR 的現金流的反映，也不是您如何保留 MSR，無論它是否具有不同的資本化，它實際上都沒有與現金流掛鉤，但安德魯，您想要。

No.

不。

I think that's right.

我認為那是對的。

Capitalization of MSRs is not excluded from that, but the scales of MSRs, I think a combination of capitalization and sales of MSRs gets you closer to more of a cash cash flow metric.

MSR 的資本化並不排除在外，但是 MSR 的規模，我認為 MSR 的資本化和銷售額的結合使您更接近現金流指標。

Maybe one more on the margins.

也許邊緣處還有一個。

I mean does the guidance around the margin going forward incorporate these latest rate moves over the last couple weeks?

我的意思是，未來關於利潤的指導是否考慮了過去幾週的最新利率變動？

And do you think there's any room for margin expansion at these higher rates or is that not really something that investors should focus on?

您認為在如此高的利率下，利潤率是否還有上升空間，或者這是否是投資人真正應該關注的問題？

Well, as you saw, there's definitely room for market margin expansion when the market moves a little bit, right?

嗯，正如您所看到的，當市場稍微波動時，市場利潤率肯定有擴大的空間，對嗎？

So as soon as the market moves, we take advantage of that and have that opportunity.

因此，一旦市場發生變化，我們就會利用它並抓住機會。

I guided to 85 basis points to 110 basis points last quarter and we put up 118 basis points.

我上個季度的預期是 85 個基點到 110 個基點，而我們實際上漲到了 118 個基點。

Well, over the guidance based on where I guided this time, if the market would have stayed where it was, I'd be guiding to a higher margin.

嗯，根據我這次的指導，如果市場保持原樣，我會指導更高的利潤率。

If that's answering your question, the market has not only backed up, it backed up quite a bit to where the tenure is 435, 444, 150 whatever it is right?

如果這回答了您的問題，那麼市場不僅回升了，而且回升幅度相當大，達到 435、444、150 等水平，對嗎？

This second, I don't know, but based on that 85 basis points to 110 basis points is the right guidance and we feel really confident in that.

第二，我不知道，但基於此，85 個基點到 110 個基點是正確的指導，我們對此非常有信心。

Jeff Adelson, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的傑夫·阿德爾森。

You had a really nice quarter for five this quarter.

本季，你們的業績表現非常好。

I guess just with the strength and applications we saw at the end of last quarter and sort of the we've seen, thus far this quarter down, the refi index from NBA showing us down about 50% since the quarter end for refi.

我想，僅從上個季度末我們看到的實力和申請，以及本季迄今看到的下降趨勢來看，NBA 的再融資指數顯示，自本季末以來，再融資下降了約 50%。

Just curious like how much of this 34% to 41% is just the kind of follow through of closing the rate lock you saw at the end of last quarter and does the midpoint of the guy kind of embed where the 10 year and mortgage rates are sitting today.

我只是好奇，這 34% 到 41% 中有多少是上個季度末利率鎖定的後續行動，以及這個中間點是否與當今 10 年期和抵押貸款利率的水平吻合。

Maybe just sort of talk through what you're seeing in the rate lock volume so far this quarter versus last quarter.

也許您只是想談談本季迄今與上一季相比的利率鎖定量。

Yeah.

是的。

So I don't really look at the rate lock volume as an indicator of how we do our business.

所以我並不真正將利率鎖定量視為我們業務開展狀況的指標。

I look at imports.

我看的是進口。

I look at registrations, I look at submissions, I look at our flow of our business, our approval condition pipeline.

我查看註冊資訊、查看提交內容、查看我們的業務流程和批准條件管道。

So there's a lot of other aspects and details I look at which is obviously different to other people that run their business.

因此，我關注的許多其他方面和細節顯然與其他經營企業的人不同。

But the other thing about our business is we're different.

但我們的業務還有另一個特點，那就是我們是與眾不同的。

A lot of people will get a lot of rate locks from September and close them in November and December.

許多人會從九月開始獲得大量利率鎖定，並在十一月和十二月將其關閉。

That's not UWM.

那不是 UWM。

UWM closes them in 10, 12, 14 days.

UWM 會在 10、12、14 天內關閉這些案件。

So you've got that $39.5 billion pop based on locks from September to be clear, and obviously, so now with that being said, purchase market usually slows down in the fourth quarter.

因此，很明顯，根據 9 月的鎖定數據，您可以獲得 395 億美元的成長，顯然，現在說的是，購買市場通常會在第四季度放緩。

The market has slowed down as you pointed out.

正如您所指出的，市場已經放緩。

But do we feel confident we can still do 34 to 41, yes, we do.

但我們是否有信心仍能達到 34 到 41 的目標呢？

October was a 23 business day month, November and December, obviously shorter months with the holidays and a lot of things and a lot of times brokers and all people in the world take some time off between the December 15 and beyond.

十月有 23 個工作日，而十一月和十二月顯然由於假期和很多事情而較短，很多時候經紀人和世界上所有的人都會在 12 月 15 日及以後休假。

And so we're cognizant of that.

所以我們意識到了這一點。

I feel very confident that we'll hit between 34 and 41 and between 85 basis points and 110 basis points.

我非常有信心我們將達到34至41個基點和85至110個基點之間。

And I think the best part about this quarter was I was able to show as we've been talking for years that we are prepared and ready to dominate on the refined market, just like we have on the purchase market.

我認為本季最好的部分是，正如我們多年來一直在談論的那樣，我能夠表明我們已經做好準備並準備好在精煉市場佔據主導地位，就像我們在購買市場上所做的那樣。

And as soon as that market comes to our direction, we will capitalize on it and capitalize on it very quickly.

一旦市場朝著我們的方向發展，我們就會利用它，並且很快就會利用它。

And so if the tenure dropped to 3.75 in 25 minutes or an hour, you'd see a different fourth quarter than I just told you as in a higher margin and higher volume.

因此，如果期限在 25 分鐘或一小時內下降到 3.75，您會看到與我剛才告訴您的不同的第四季度，因為利潤率更高，交易量也更高。

But if it goes to 4.50 where it's basically been at or went to last a couple of days after the election, then you'll see what I kind of posted.

但如果它升至 4.50，基本上就是選舉後幾天的水平，那麼你就會看到我所發布的內容。

So I feel good about where we're at.

所以我對於我們現在的狀況感到很滿意。

We'll hit 34 to 41 and be prepared for a dominant 2025 on purchases and hopefully on revise as well.

我們將達到 34 到 41 的目標，並為 2025 年在購買方面佔據主導地位做好準備，並希望在修訂方面也能如此。

And just any update on sort of the update you're seeing on the new, Cash-Out 90 product.

以及有關您在新的 Cash-Out 90 產品上看到的更新的任何更新。

I know it's only been three weeks but just curious if there's any sort of early reads you're seeing there.

我知道這才過了三週，但我只是好奇你是否在那裡看到了任何早期讀物。

Yeah, it's been a great program, obviously exclusive with us and something that's differentiating our clients, the issue, obviously, since we rolled it out, rates have done nothing but go up, right?

是的，這是一個很棒的計劃，顯然是我們獨有的，也是我們客戶的不同之處，問題是，自從我們推出這個計劃以來，費率一直在上漲，對吧？

So there's a balance of how much of that we saw and expect to see versus what it will be when I keep saying the tenure.

因此，我們看到的和期望看到的數量與我一直說的任期內的數量之間存在平衡。

But when rates, you don't understand how tenure and rates tie together when rates are a little lower.

但是當利率略低時，您不了解期限和利率如何相互關聯。

So it's been great.

所以這很棒。

It's definitely a differentiator, but it's not as high volume as you'd expect in a refined market.

這絕對是差異化因素，但在成熟市場中它的銷售量並不像你預期的那麼高。

It will be extremely high volume, I believe.

我相信，其銷量將會非常高。

Terry Ma, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的馬特里 (Terry Ma)。

So you've mentioned for a while about investing in and preparing for lower rates ahead and you pointed toward the two to three weeks stress test this quarter.

所以您曾經提到過關於投資和為未來的低利率做準備，並指出本季將進行兩到三週的壓力測試。

Maybe just talk about what ending you're in with respect to those investments and then maybe longer term, how much more upside we I share you can actually get?

也許只是談論一下這些投資的結局，然後也許從長遠來看，我們分享的您實際上還能獲得多少好處？

Yeah.

是的。

So I mean, our investments have been wonderful.

所以我的意思是，我們的投資非常出色。

We feel great about where we're at.

我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意。

We're prepared.

我們準備好了。

We don't need to go hire a bunch of people to double this business.

我們不需要雇用一大群人來讓業務翻倍。

Like I say, I say double, it's probably not, I don't want to exaggerate it.

就像我說的，我說的是雙倍，但可能不是，我不想誇大其詞。

So, but significantly grow very quickly.

因此，但顯著增長非常快。

So we can handle a lot more volume right now with our technology enhancements, with our hiring, with our training, with our coaching.

因此，透過技術改進、招募、培訓和指導，我們現在可以處理更多的業務量。

We are prepared and ready to go today, right?

我們今天已經準備好出發了，對吧？

And tomorrow.

還有明天。

And so that's my job as the CEO as I said at the very beginning is one to dominate the purchase market.

正如我在一開始所說的，身為首席執行官，我的職責就是主導購買市場。

Show profitability continue to pay the dividend and reward my shareholders and then be prepared and be the most prepared company in America, which we are, we're prepared on technology, we're prepared on efficiencies, we're prepared on operations.

顯示獲利能力繼續支付股息並獎勵我的股東，然後做好準備並成為美國最有準備的公司，我們在技術上做好了準備，我們在效率上做好了準備，我們在營運上做好了準備。

And when that happens, we will significantly grow.

當這種情況發生時，我們將實現顯著的成長。

And I think that will be 2025.

我認為那是 2025 年。

And I think you'll see the results in our volume growing and our marginally growing next year.

我想你會看到我們的銷量會成長，而且明年還會略有成長。

With that being said, I don't control interest.

話雖如此，我並不控制利息。

So I don't spend too much time focused on them because when they come, I'll be prepared when they stay where they're at, we'll dominate and purchase.

所以我不會花太多時間關注他們，因為當他們來的時候，我會做好準備，當他們留在原地時，我們會佔據主導地位併購買。

And that's why it's great to be part of the broker channel, what we do and support our brokers and build and our business is profitable and exactly how it is today, but we can scale quickly with our team and our staffing that we are at right now.

這就是為什麼成為經紀人管道的一部分是一件很棒的事情，我們的工作和支持我們的經紀人並建立我們的業務是盈利的，就像今天的情況一樣，但我們可以憑藉我們目前的團隊和人員配置迅速擴大規模。

So we feel great.

所以我們感覺很棒。

We're prepared as good as we've ever been and we're now just watching the market and continue to dominate our day to day basis until that happens.

我們已經做好了盡可能充分的準備，現在我們只是在關注市場，並繼續主導我們的日常工作，直到這種情況發生。

And I think you mentioned in your prepared remarks that you were able to increase the float.

我記得您在準備好的發言中提到過，您能夠增加浮動金額。

Can you maybe just talk about that and then your plans for increasing the float in the future?

您能否談談這個問題以及未來增加浮動資金的計劃？

Well, it's been a common theme for my investors is how do we get more float out there?

那麼，對我的投資人來說，一個共同的主題就是我們如何獲得更多的浮動資金？

What can you do to do it?

你能做什麼來做到這一點？

And we've done different creative ways to get more float out there to the market.

我們採取了不同的創意方法來為市場注入更多的流動性。

And we will continue to look at that right now.

我們現在將繼續關注這個問題。

I'm not looking at that more this year.

今年我不會再考慮這個了。

However, we will always look at ways float matters.

然而，我們始終會尋找讓事情浮現的方法。

And so if that's something that's holding our stock price down, which I've been told for years, it is, we'll continue to do our best to get more float out there in the hands of our investor base.

所以，如果這是壓低我們股價的原因，而事實多年來我一直被告知，這是原因，那麼我們將繼續竭盡全力為我們的投資者提供更多的流通股。

So they can continue to invest in our company and go from there and take advantage of the high dividend we pay and all the other things.

因此，他們可以繼續投資我們的公司，並從中獲益，享受我們支付的高股息和所有其他好處。

So, we'll continue to look at that.

因此，我們將繼續關注這個問題。

I'm always opportunistic in that and looking at ways to help.

我總是抓住機會並尋找提供幫助的方法。

But at the same time, there's certain things I won't do to expand it.

但同時，我不會做某些事情來擴大它。

But right now, that's what we focus on the fourth quarter or the third quarter, excuse me.

但現在，我們關注的是第四季或第三季度，對不起。

And hopefully you've seen some of those results in the float is materially different than it was, you know, six months ago.

希望您已經看到，浮動匯率的結果與六個月前相比存在重大差異。

(Operator Instructions) Brad Capuzzi, Piper Sandler.

（操作員指示）Brad Capuzzi，Piper Sandler。

Can you just give us an update on the dynamics playing out within the broker channel?

您能否向我們介紹經紀人通路的最新動態？

Some of your peers have been talking up opportunities within the broker channel recently.

您的一些同行最近一直在談論經紀人管道內的機會。

Obviously, UWM is a stronghold on the channel and it's continued to grow market share.

顯然，UWM 是通路上的強勢企業，其市佔率持續成長。

But I was wondering if you expect pricing to be rational and if you're seeing any increased competition.

但我想知道您是否認為定價合理，以及是否看到競爭加劇。

Yeah.

是的。

No, it's, it's always fun and cute when my competitors like to talk about wholesale and what they can do.

不，當我的競爭對手談論批發以及他們能做什麼時，總是很有趣也很可愛。

They've been saying that for years you should go back to their going public and their earnings calls and all their cute little things they say.

多年來他們一直在說，你應該回顧他們的上市、收益電話會議以及他們說的所有可愛的小事。

But the truth is we dominate the wholesale channel because we care about the brokers and only the brokers, we invest in the brokers and only the brokers, we want the brokers to win and only the brokers to win.

但事實是，我們主導批發管道，因為我們關心經紀人，而且只關心經紀人，我們投資經紀人，而且只投資經紀人，我們希望經紀人獲勝，而且只希望經紀人獲勝。

And when they win, UWM wins because we're a team and so zero concern about that.

如果他們獲勝，UWM 也會獲勝，因為我們是一個團隊，所以我們對此毫無顧慮。

I control the margins.

我控制利潤。

They don't, they will follow our lead and enjoy that.

他們不會，他們會跟隨我們的腳步並享受這一點。

And at the same time, we'll continue to grow and build our business.

同時，我們將繼續發展和拓展我們的業務。

And so we feel great about where we're at.

我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意。

I don't really pay attention to what they're saying.

我不太注意他們在說什麼。

But the truth, they have to say something on the earnings call to make themselves feel good and make you guys want to invest in them.

但事實是，他們必須在財報電話會議上說些什麼來讓自己感覺良好，並讓你們想投資他們。

But right now, we dominate the channel and that's not because we're the best.

但目前，我們主導著頻道，這並不是因為我們是最好的。

It's because we care the most we care about brokers.

因為我們最關心的是經紀人。

We will help the brokers win.

我們將幫助經紀人獲勝。

We have helped the brokers win and brokers know that.

我們幫助經紀人贏得了勝利，經紀人也知道這一點。

And so all I care about is helping the brokers win our channel.

所以我所關心的只是幫助經紀人贏得我們的管道。

Our focus is to help the brokers grow, help them succeed and dominate and when they succeed and dominate, UWM does as well.

我們的重點是幫助經紀人成長，幫助他們成功並佔據主導地位，當他們成功並佔據主導地位時，UWM 也會如此。

And it's been a pretty good way for success over the last couple of years.

在過去的幾年中，這一直是相當不錯的成功方法。

And then just the last question for me in terms of MSR, as you mentioned a few sales this quarter with the beginning of the year being more front loaded, what is your expectations going forward with MSR sales?

然後，關於 MSR，我最後一個問題是，正如您提到本季度的一些銷售情況，而且年初的銷售重點更加突出，您對 MSR 銷售的未來預期是什麼？

Yeah, once again, opportunistic, we'll look at it again, and looking at the cash needs of the business and people want to pay us high multiples which they do, we'll sell some MSRs and at the same time, we feel really great about our business and don't feel like we have to sell any MSRs in certain situations.

是的，再次，機會主義，我們會再次審視它，並考慮業務的現金需求，人們希望向我們支付高額倍數，我們會出售一些 MSR，同時，我們對我們的業務感到非常滿意，並且不覺得我們必須在某些情況下出售任何 MSR。

So we manage that.

所以我們就做到了。

We look at that, we meet with our risk committee, I meet with my executive team and we make decisions, we feel really good about where we're at.

我們會考慮這一點，我們會與風險委員會會面，我會與我的執行團隊會面並做出決定，我們對目前的狀況感到非常滿意。

We're obviously still producing a high volume of MSRs where most people don't.

顯然，我們仍在生產大量大多數人不會生產的 MSR。

And so people that are new originations are wanted by a lot of these MSR buyers.

因此，許多 MSR 買家都希望獲得新買家。

And so we're obviously a big target for that.

因此我們顯然是這個方面的一個大目標。

So we'll continue to do that and look at that, but we have no requirement to sell MSRs we look at that opportunistically and whatever I think is best for the business, the investors, our partners, everything and we analyze it on a day to day or what's called more realistically a week to week, month to month basis.

因此，我們會繼續這樣做並關注這一點，但我們沒有要求出售 MSR，我們只是投機取巧地考慮這一點，無論我認為對企業、投資者、我們的合作夥伴、一切最有利，我們都會每天進行分析，或者更現實地說是每週、每月進行分析。

Doug Harter, UBS.

瑞銀的道格·哈特（Doug Harter）。

Can you talk about the higher gain that you achieved?

您能談談您所獲得的更高收益嗎？

Is that a difference in gain between kind of purchase and refi or is it kind of your capacity and technology that allows you to kind of seize on the opportunity when volumes increase and those volumes, whether they purchase or refi have have a higher gain?

這是購買和再融資之間的收益差異嗎，還是您的能力和技術使您能夠在交易量增加時抓住機會，並且這些交易量，無論是購買還是再融資都能獲得更高的收益？

Yeah, I mean, I think the gain on sale is tied to, I talked a little bit about the ancillary products, but I really think it's tied to being able to handle the capacity.

是的，我的意思是，我認為銷售收益與輔助產品有關，但我真的認為它與處理容量的能力有關。

And the reality is when rates drop, people think refis are more price sensitive, but they're actually, I don't look at it that way.

事實是，當利率下降時，人們認為再融資對價格更加敏感，但實際上，我並不這麼認為。

I look at it as there's so much volume.

我認為它的數量非常大。

People want to close their loans fast and efficiently.

人們希望快速、有效地結清貸款。

And when a borrower is saving $94 a month versus $96 a month, a lot of times borrowers are not focused on that, they want to get the savings now.

當借款人每月節省 94 美元而不是 96 美元時，很多時候借款人並不注意這一點，他們希望立即獲得節省。

And so our brokers recognize that and they want to close loans fast and efficiently.

我們的經紀人認識到這一點，他們希望快速有效地完成貸款。

So, gate on sale for the whole industry, not just UWM will go up when you guys come back.

因此，當你們回來時，整個行業的門票銷售都會上漲，而不僅僅是 UWM。

And so based on the tenure, you can probably pretty simply draw a little conclusion based on 10 year, the 10 year rates or the 10 year versus gain on sale.

因此，根據期限，您可能可以簡單地根據 10 年期、10 年期利率或 10 年期與銷售收益得出一個小結論。

And as the tenure goes down into the threes margins for UWM, but really everyone in our industry will go up and how much they go up is depending on their preparations for scale and the preparation and ability to close and execute.

雖然 UWM 的任期縮短到了三年，但實際上我們行業中的每個人都會漲薪，而漲薪幅度取決於他們的規模準備、準備以及成交和執行的能力。

But it will definitely go up.

但它肯定會漲。

People, it's definitely more price sensitive and price competitive when the tenure is higher because people can't afford the house potentially if the rate isn't at 6.99 versus seven and eight.

人們在租期較長時肯定對價格更加敏感，價格競爭也更加激烈，因為如果利率不是 6.99（而不是 7.8），人們可能買不起房子。

Right?

正確的？

But when you're saving $68 versus $71 or $97 versus $101 or $186 versus $188, people are not as sensitive on that.

但是當你節省 68 美元而不是 71 美元、97 美元而不是 101 美元、186 美元而不是 188 美元時，人們對此就不那麼敏感了。

They're just decided to save $186.

他們只是決定節省 186 美元。

And so I think that's just not just, that's not a UWM thing, that's an industry thing.

所以我認為這不僅僅是 UWM 的事情，這是行業的事情。

And so when the tenure goes down to $375, $350 you'll see all of my competitors, everyone in this industry will have higher margins and higher volumes.

因此，當期限降至 375 美元、350 美元時，你會看到我所有的競爭對手，這個行業中的每個人都會擁有更高的利潤和更高的銷售量。

So it's a very positive thing for our industry.

所以這對我們的行業來說是一件非常積極的事情。

In the meantime, we'll continue to do great and we're at.

同時，我們將繼續表現出色。

And we did have an additional caller come into the queue.

而且確實有一位額外的呼叫者進入了隊列。

So this will be your last question.

所以這將是你的最後一個問題。

Jordan Hymowitz, Philly Financial.

喬丹海莫維茨 (Jordan Hymowitz)，費城金融公司。

You mentioned that had rates stayed a little bit lower that you're prepared to guide up on the margins.

您提到，如果利率保持在較低水平，您準備上調邊際。

It had rates stayed where they were in mid to late September.

利率維持在 9 月中下旬的水準。

Where do you think the fourth quarter margin guidance would have been?

您認為第四季的利潤率預期會是多少？

So obviously, I don't know exactly what it would have been.

顯然，我不知道它到底是什麼樣子。

I would have definitely looked at analyzing the market and seeing where they stayed and understand the levels, but understand that you saw our margins was 118.

我肯定會分析市場，看看它們停留在哪裡，了解水平，但要知道我們的利潤率是 118。

I wouldn't have thought if the 10 year would have went down, our margins would not go down, right?

我不會想到，如果十年期利率下降，我們的利潤率不會下降，對嗎？

So that's how I would have thought about that is that we definitely would have guided up a level, maybe a level or two and probably been in a range like that.

所以這就是我對此的想法，我們肯定會引導其上升一個級別，也許是一個或兩個級別，並且可能處於這樣的範圍內。

And so we'd expect it to go up.

因此我們預期它會上升。

I do expect margins to go up as the tenure goes down, but it's hard to think back what I would have done on September 20 after they lowered 50 basis points.

我確實預計利潤率會隨著期限的縮短而上升，但很難回想起在 9 月 20 日他們降低 50 個基點後我會做什麼。

But the market got worse.

但市場情況變得更糟。

So, but I understand where the market is today.

所以，但我了解今天的市場狀況。

When the tenure goes down, our margins will go up and when our margins go up, we will do more volume with higher margins and a better return for our investors, our dividend will continue as it continued going forward.

當期限縮短時，我們的利潤率就會上升，而當我們的利潤率上升時，我們將以更高的利潤增加交易量並為投資者帶來更好的回報，我們的股息也將繼續下去。

So as investors, like I said, at the end of my prepared marks was, it's a great time to be a partner at UWM because you're getting a great dividend today and you have the upside of the stock price, which I know some, you know, analysts, I believe we will go much higher, we believe we will go much higher and you get the benefit of gain on sale volume.

因此，正如我所說的，作為投資者，現在是成為 UWM 合夥人的好時機，因為您今天可以獲得豐厚的股息，股價還有上漲空間，我知道一些分析師相信我們的股價會走高，我們相信我們的股價會走高，而您將獲得銷售量增加帶來的好處。

And a tailwind, obviously, with the new President, there will be some new changes like a lot of really positive things in our business.

顯然，隨著新總統的上任，我們的業務將會出現一些新的變化，例如許多真正正面的事情。

So we feel like there's a nice tailwind behind us, we feel great.

因此，我們感覺身後有一股順風，我們感覺很棒。

But at the same time, we're going to sit here and patiently wait while the tenure to see what happens with the rates.

但同時，我們將坐在這裡耐心等待，看看利率在任期內將發生什麼變化。

But in the meantime, we'll continue to dominate on purchase, help our brokers grow, continue to build the business and be the most prepared mortgage company in America.

但同時，我們將繼續在購買方面佔據主導地位，幫助我們的經紀人成長，繼續發展業務，成為美國最有準備的抵押貸款公司。

Does the mortgage spreads the treasury impact that number as well because that's widened out appreciably?

抵押貸款利差和國債利差是否也會影響該數字，因為該數字已經明顯擴大？

Yes, of course, it does, right.

是的，當然是這樣。

So obviously, whether that's wider or then that's all tied to it.

因此顯然，無論範圍是否更廣，都與此相關。

That's why as you, you're obviously instincts and understanding the knowledge of the 10 year is not the perfect metric.

這就是為什麼像你一樣，你顯然本能地認為，對 10 年知識的理解並不是完美的標準。

I'm just using it because it's the metric.

我只是因為它是度量標準而使用它。

Everyone talks about obviously the spread between that changes as it gets bigger, it's less exciting for me and when it gets smaller, it's more exciting.

顯然，每個人都在談論這種差距，當差距變大時，對我來說就沒那麼令人興奮了，而當差距變小時，就更令人興奮了。

But in general, it's the trend I'm talking about the 10 year is a good indicator for everyone to understand where the refi action will be based on where the market has been on '22, '23 and '24.

但總的來說，我談論的 10 年趨勢是一個很好的指標，它可以讓每個人了解基於 22、23 和 24 年市場狀況的再融資行動將會走向何方。

And the 10 year at 375 is a pretty good bellwether and below 10, 375, I think you'll see a lot of refi activity, higher margins and a little bit of fun for all the investors and also at UWM and our brokers and for consumers.

10 年期 375 是一個非常好的風向標，而低於 10,375，我認為你會看到大量的再融資活動，更高的利潤率，以及為所有投資者、UWM 和我們的經紀人以及消費者帶來一些樂趣。

So everyone's going to win across the board.

因此，每個人都會獲得全面勝利。

But I guess my point is the last thing is even if the 10 year stays higher mortgage price, the treasuries could narrow even to where they were six months ago, much less, but they were historic highs and you could get a wider gain on sale margin from that into 2025.

但我想我的觀點是，即使 10 年期抵押貸款價格保持較高水平，國債收益率也可能收窄至六個月前的水平，甚至更少，但它們是歷史高位，您可以從中獲得更大的銷售利潤收益，直至 2025 年。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

That sounds like fun for me too.

對我來說這聽起來也很有趣。

I think all those things can happen.

我認為所有這些事情都有可能發生。

There's 38 variables is going to be the most common one and we feel really good about it when we're ready.

38 個變數將是最常見的變量，當我們準備好時，我們對此感覺非常好。

And that will wrap up the Q&A portion.

問答部分到此結束。

I'd like to turn the call back over to Matt Ishbia for closing remarks.

我想將電話轉回給 Matt Ishbia，請他做最後發言。

Yeah.

是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And thanks everyone for the questions and being part of it we're excited about.

感謝大家的提問，我們很高興能參與其中。

We at a UWM, we're excited for the fourth quarter and we're really excited for 2025.

在 UWM，我們對第四季度感到興奮，我們對 2025 年感到非常興奮。

So the company is in a great position.

因此，該公司處於非常有利的地位。

We appreciate the support and we're excited to continue to win with our broker partners.

我們感謝您的支持，並很高興能繼續與我們的經紀合作夥伴一起取得成功。

Our brokers are doing great.

我們的經紀人表現出色。

We're doing great and we're going to continue to win together as a team.

我們做得很好，我們將繼續作為一個團隊共同贏得勝利。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Have a great day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。