Ultrapar Participacoes SA (UGP) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Ultrapar's fourth-quarter '24 results conference call. There is also simultaneous webcast that may be accessed through Ultrapar's website at ri.ultra.com.br and MZIQ platform.

歡迎參加 Ultrapar 24 年第四季業績電話會議。還有同步網路直播，可透過 Ultrapar 網站 ri.ultra.com.br 和 MZIQ 平台存取。

The presentation will be conducted by Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, Ultrapar's Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer.

演講將由 Ultrapar 財務與投資者關係長 Rodrigo Pizzinatto 先生主持。

In the Q&A session, we will have the presence of Mr. Marcos Lutz, Ultrapar's CEO; and the CEOs of Ultragaz and UltraCargo, Tabajara Bertelli and Décio Amaral, respectively. We'll also have Mr. Pedro Guedes and Sebastião Furquim, CFO and VP of Operations of Ipiranga, respectively.

在問答環節，我們將邀請 Ultrapar 執行長 Marcos Lutz 先生出席； Ultragaz 和 UltraCargo 的執行長分別為 Tabajara Bertelli 和 Décio Amaral。我們還將邀請 Ipiranga 的財務長 Pedro Guedes 先生和營運副總裁 Sebastião Furquim 先生。

I would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be in listen-only mode during the company's presentation. After Ultrapar's remarks, there will be a Q&A session. At this time, further instructions will be given. We would like to remind you that participants of the webcast may submit their questions through our webcast by submitting their questions. The replay of this call will be available immediately after for seven days.

我想通知您，此次活動正在錄製中，所有參與者在公司演示期間將處於只聽模式。Ultrapar 演講結束後，將有一個問答環節。此時，將會給予進一步的指示。我們想提醒您，網路直播的參與​​者可以透過我們的網路直播提交他們的問題。本次通話的重播將在七天內立即提供。

Before proceeding, we would like to state that forward-looking statements are being made under the Safe Harbor of the Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1996. Forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Ultrapar management and on information currently available to the company. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future.

在繼續之前，我們想聲明，前瞻性陳述是根據 1996 年證券訴訟改革法案的安全港做出的。前瞻性陳述基於 Ultrapar 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於未來可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。

Investors should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Ultrapar and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

投資人應了解，一般經濟狀況、產業狀況和其他經營因素也可能影響 Ultrapar 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, who will start our conference. Mr. Pizzinatto, you have the floor.

現在我想將會議交給 Rodrigo Pizzinatto 先生，他將主持我們的會議。皮齊納托先生，請您發言。

Good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to be here once more to talk about Ultrapar's results.

大家早安。我很高興在這裡再次談論 Ultrapar 的成果。

We will start with a brief overview of 2024. Last year was another year of important improvements for the company even in an environment of volatility and uncertainty. We continue to see growth in Ultragaz and Ultracargo and resilience in Ipiranga despite the environment of significant irregular practices in the fuel sector. We maintained a strong operational cash flow generation, which allowed the company to increase its investment level while maintaining financial leverage at comfortable levels.

我們將首先簡要概述 2024 年。去年，儘管環境動盪且不確定，但公司依然取得了重要的進展。儘管燃料行業存在嚴重違規行為，但我們仍然看到 Ultragaz 和 Ultracargo 的成長以及 Ipiranga 的復甦。我們保持了強勁的營運現金流生成，這使得公司能夠提高投資水平，同時將財務槓桿保持在舒適的水平。

We made our largest capital allocation in a single asset for the last 10 years with a BRL1.8 billion investment, including proceeds from the advance for future capital increase to acquire a 42% stake in Indrofus to Brazil. We also acquired Witzler for BRL124 million, complementing our portfolio of energy solutions at Ultragaz.

我們對單項資產進行了近10年來最大的資本配置，投資額達18億巴西雷亞爾，其中包括用於未來增資的預付款收益，用於收購巴西Indrofus公司42%的股份。我們也以 1.24 億巴西雷亞爾收購了 Witzler，補充了 Ultragaz 的能源解決方案組合。

We evolved our management model with a new governance, providing greater agility, autonomy, and accountability for our portfolio companies. We also announced the planned transition process for the positions of CEO and CFO of Ultrapar to be concluded by April 2025.

我們透過新的治理改進了我們的管理模式，為我們的投資組合公司提供了更大的靈活性、自主性和責任感。我們還宣布了 Ultrapar 執行長和財務長職位的過渡計劃，預計將於 2025 年 4 月完成。

And with that, I will now move on to the presentation of our results for the fourth quarter and the full year of 2024. And in slide two, I would like to remind you of the reporting criteria and standards used throughout this presentation.

現在，我將繼續介紹我們 2024 年第四季和全年的業績。在第二張投影片中，我想提醒您整個簡報中使用的報告標準和準則。

And moving now to slide 3 with Ultrapar's consolidated results. As you can see in the upper left chart, our recurring EBITDA totaled BRL1,284 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, a 23% decrease over the fourth quarter of 2023, mainly due to the lower EBITDA at Ipiranga and the negative impact from the share of loss of Hidrovias of BRL104 million in the quarter.

現在轉到幻燈片 3，其中顯示了 Ultrapar 的綜合業績。從左上圖可以看出，2024 年第四季我們的經常性 EBITDA 總計 12.84 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年第四季下降 23%，這主要是由於 Ipiranga 的 EBITDA 較低以及本季度 Hidrovias 1.04 億巴西雷亞爾的損失份額的負面影響。

Looking at annual results, our recurring EBITDA totaled BRL5,377 million a 4% decrease over 2023 due to a lower EBITDA at Ipiranga and the share of loss of Hidrovias, partially offset by rapid results at Ultragaz and Ultracargo. Ultrapar's net income was BRL2,526 million in 2024, the same level we had in 2023 due to lower recurring EBITDA at Ipiranga and the reversal of deferred income tax from KMV, which was offset by higher extraordinary tax credits.

從年度業績來看，我們的經常性 EBITDA 總計 53.77 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年下降 4%，原因是 Ipiranga 的 EBITDA 較低以及 Hidrovias 的虧損份額，但被 Ultragaz 和 Ultracargo 的快速業績部分抵消。2024 年，Ultrapar 的淨收入為 25.26 億巴西雷亞爾，與 2023 年的水平相同，原因是 Ipiranga 的經常性 EBITDA 較低，以及 KMV 的遞延所得稅逆轉，但被更高的非常規稅收抵免所抵消。

As we have already announced, our Board of Directors approved the additional payment of dividends of BRL493 million, equivalent to BRL0.46 per share. It will be paid from March 2014 in addition to the payment made in August last year, totaling a distribution of BRL769 million in dividends for the year 2024.

正如我們已經宣布的那樣，我們的董事會批准額外支付 4.93 億巴西雷亞爾的股息，相當於每股 0.46 巴西雷亞爾。除去年 8 月支付的股息外，還將從 2014 年 3 月開始支付，2024 年度的股息總額將達到 7.69 億巴西雷亞爾。

And moving now to slide 4 to comment on the cash generation for the year. We had an operational cash generation of BRL3,736 million in 2024, 3% lower than that of 2023 due to higher working capital investment, which was primarily driven by lower imported product mix. And as you can see in the graph at the center, in 2024, we received the final payments related to the sale of Oxiteno and Extrafarma, totaling BRL977 million.

現在轉到投影片 4，評論今年的現金產生。2024 年，我們的營運現金流為 37.36 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年下降 3%，原因是營運資本投資增加，而這主要是由於進口產品組合減少所致。正如您在中間的圖表中所看到的，2024 年，我們收到了與出售 Oxiteno 和 Extrafarma 相關的最終付款，總額為 9.77 億巴西雷亞爾。

We allocated a much higher capital to acquisitions that totaled BRL1,782 million, mainly with the investment in Indorovias and BRL150 million to the buyback program. We also increased our CapEx, which totaled BRL2,213,000,000 in 2024, a 14% increase over 2023, mainly driven by higher investments in Ultracargoc.

我們為收購分配了更高的資本，總額達 17.82 億雷亞爾，主要用於投資 Indorovias，並為回購計畫分配了 1.5 億雷亞爾。我們還增加了資本支出，2024 年總額為 2,213,000,000 巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年增長 14%，這主要得益於對 Ultracargoc 的投資增加。

Moving now to slide 5 to talk about our reliability management and leverage. Our leverage increased in the last quarter from 1.3 times to 1.4 times due to a lower LTM EBITDA, partially offset by a reduction in net debt. The reduction in net debt is due to higher operational cash generation, partially offset by three items. The advance payment for future capital increase in Hidrovias amounting to BRL500 million. We expanded the draft discount by BRL276 million and the launch of the buyback program, which consumed BRL150 million in the period.

現在轉到投影片 5，討論我們的可靠性管理和槓桿作用。由於 LTM EBITDA 較低，我們的槓桿率在上個季度從 1.3 倍增加到 1.4 倍，但部分被淨債務的減少所抵消。淨債務的減少是由於營運現金流的增加，但被三項項目部分抵銷。為Hidrovias未來增資預付的金額為5億巴西雷亞爾。我們將匯票折扣擴大了 2.76 億雷亞爾，並啟動了回購計劃，該計劃在此期間消耗了 1.5 億雷亞爾。

And at the bottom of the slide, you can also see a table with the total amount of the draft discount vendor and pending receivables from the sales of Oxiteno and Extrafarma. The net debt as of December 2024, including these effects, was BRL8.9 billion, which is BRL2.4 billion higher than the balance in December 2023, driven by the investments and acquisitions already mentioned.

在投影片的底部，您還可以看到一個表格，其中列出了 Oxiteno 和 Extrafarma 銷售的折扣供應商匯票總額和未結應收帳款總額。截至 2024 年 12 月，包括這些影響在內的淨債務為 89 億雷亞爾，比 2023 年 12 月的餘額高出 24 億雷亞爾，這主要是由於前面提到的投資和收購。

And moving to slide 6 to discuss the competitive environment in the fuel industry. Brazil has experienced an increase in unlawful activities in recent years in the fuel sector. According to data from the Instituto Combustível Legal, the country loses BRL29 billion a year due to tax evasion and fuel adulteration. We included this slide to highlight the main challenges we have been facing regarding these unlawful practices, as well as evolutions Brazil has conquered to regulate the sector with tax collection gains.

前往投影片 6，討論燃料產業的競爭環境。近年來，巴西燃料產業的非法活動增加。根據巴西燃料法研究所的數據，該國每年因逃稅和燃料摻假損失 290 億巴西雷亞爾。我們添加這張幻燈片是為了強調我們在這些非法行為方面所面臨的主要挑戰，以及巴西在透過稅收收益來規範該行業方面所取得的進展。

Over the unlawful activities that affect the most of our recent results is the noncompliance with the required biodiesel plant in diesel. Biodiesel is more expensive than diesel and its price has increased since the beginning of 2024. There is also a large number of distributors who fail to meet renewable targets and do not purchase the mandatory carbon tax credits annually. These unlawful practices have allowed the companies to gain market share over the companies that follow the rules.

對我們近期業績影響最大的非法活動是柴油中不符合生質柴油廠的要求。生物柴油比柴油貴，而且自2024年初以來其價格已經上漲。還有大量分銷商未能達到再生能源目標，並且每年沒有購買強制性的碳稅抵免。這些非法行為使得這些公司從遵守規則的公司手中奪取了市場份額。

The market share of unlawful companies that follow the rules decreased 2.9 percentage points in 2024. We are also experiencing advancements recently, as the new law for renewable turning non-compliance environmental crime, among other things, and the anticipation of a monophase for PIS and COFINS for ethanol, and we expect that the fight against unlawful practices continue to advance and allow a better competitive environment for the companies that follow the rules.

2024年，遵守規則的非法公司的市佔率下降了2.9個百分點。我們最近也經歷了一些進步，例如新的再生能源法將不遵守環境法規定為犯罪，以及對乙醇 PIS 和 COFINS 單相制度的預期，我們預計打擊非法行為的鬥爭將繼續推進，並為遵守規則的公司提供更好的競爭環境。

And moving to slide 7, let's talk about Ipiranga's results. The volume shown in the quarter decreased 1% year over year, with a 3% growth in the [outdoor] cycle and a 6% decline in diesel, mainly in the spot market. In 2024, Ipiranga's sales volume grew 2%, with a 5% increase in the outdoor cycle and a 1% drop in diesel. We ended 2024 with a network of 5,860 service stations, in line with that of 2023.

接下來我們來看第 7 張投影片，我們來談談 Ipiranga 的成果。本季顯示的交易量年減了 1%，其中[戶外]週期增加了 3%，柴油下降了 6%，主要集中在現貨市場。2024年，伊皮蘭加的銷量成長了2%，其中戶外循環成長了5%，柴油下降了1%。截至 2024 年，我們的服務站網路已達到 5,860 個，與 2023 年持平。

Additionally, we closed the quarter with 1,450 AmPm stores, with a 9% same-store sales growth in the fourth quarter of '24. Ipiranga's SG&A decreased by 13% over the fourth quarter of 2023, driven by lower personnel expenses and one-off expenses related to the conclusion of the service station reviewing process of the legacy network and marketing expenses in the fourth quarter of '23.

此外，本季末我們擁有 1,450 家 AmPm 門市，24 年第四季同店銷售額成長 9%。Ipiranga 的銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 在 2023 年第四季度下降了 13%，這主要是由於人員支出和與 2023 年第四季度完成傳統網路服務站審查流程相關的一次性支出以及行銷支出減少。

The other operating results line total negative BRL114 million in the quarter, an improvement of BRL16 million compared to the fourth quarter of '23, due to lower expenses with carbon tax credits. The line of results from disposal of assets totaled BRL63 million, resulting mainly from the sale of 16 real estate assets.

本季其他營運績效總計負 1.14 億雷亞爾，較 23 年第四季增加 1,600 萬雷亞爾，原因是碳稅抵免帶來的費用降低。資產處置收益總額為 6,300 萬巴西雷亞爾，主要來自 16 處房地產資產的出售。

Ipiranga's EBITDA was BRL1,841 million in the quarter. The recurring EBITDA amounted to BRL844 million, 27% lower year over year. The lower EBITDA mainly reflects reduced margins impacted by unlawful practices in the industry and higher inventory levels, and lower sales volume, partially offset by lower expenses.

Ipiranga 本季的 EBITDA 為 18.41 億巴西雷亞爾。經常性 EBITDA 為 8.44 億巴西雷亞爾，年減 27%。EBITDA 下降主要反映了行業不法行為、庫存水準上升以及銷售量下降導致的利潤率下降，但費用下降部分抵消了這一影響。

In 2024, Ipiranga's total EBITDA was BRL4,445 million. Recurring EBITDA totaled BRL3.3 billion, a 6% reduction year over year, mainly due to industry unlawful practices and higher inventory levels throughout the year. For this first quarter, we continue to see a high level of unlawful practices in the industry, particularly in biodiesel. Even so, we expect profitability levels not below that of the fourth quarter of '24, despite the lower seasonality, helped by inventory gains in the first quarter of 2025.

2024 年，Ipiranga 的 EBITDA 總額為 44.45 億雷亞爾。經常性 EBITDA 總計 33 億巴西雷亞爾，年減 6%，主要原因是全年產業違法行為和庫存水準較高。今年第一季度，我們繼續看到行業中違法行為猖獗，尤其是在生物柴油領域。即便如此，我們預計獲利水準不會低於 2024 年第四季度，儘管季節性較低，但得益於 2025 年第一季的庫存成長。

And now moving to the next slide, number 8, to talk about another good quarter for Ultragaz. The volume of LPG sold in the fourth quarter was 3% higher year over year, due to 3% increase in the bottled segment as a result of higher market demand, and to a 4% increase in the bulk segment, mainly reflecting higher sales to industries. The total volume sold in 2024 was 1% higher, driven by a 3% increase in bulk sales due to higher industrial demand, while the bottled segment declined by 1%.

現在轉到下一張投影片，第 8 張，討論 Ultragaz 的另一個好季度。第四季液化石油氣銷量較去年同期成長 3%，其中，由於市場需求增加，瓶裝液化石油氣銷量成長 3%，散裝液化石油氣銷量成長 4%，主要反映了對工業的銷售額增加。2024 年的總銷量成長了 1%，這得益於工業需求增加導致散裝銷量成長 3%，而瓶裝銷量則下降了 1%。

Ultragaz's GNA in the fourth quarter of 2024 was 16% higher than that of the fourth quarter of 2023, due to higher personnel expenses, mainly due to collective bargaining agreements and acquired businesses, as well as expenses on lawsuits. Ultragaz's recurring EBITDA totaled BRL441 million in the quarter, a 9% growth year over year. Ultragaz's recurring EBITDA was BRL1,687 million in 2024, a 2% growth over 2023.

Ultragaz 2024 年第四季的 GNA 比 2023 年第四季高出 16%，原因是人員費用增加（主要由於集體談判協議和收購的業務）以及訴訟費用。Ultragaz 本季經常性 EBITDA 總計 4.41 億巴西雷亞爾，年成長 9%。2024 年 Ultragaz 的經常性 EBITDA 為 16.87 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年成長 2%。

The growth was driven by higher volume and better sales mix, in addition to results of new energy solutions, despite the higher costs and expenses, mainly due to freight and the effects of inflation. And for this first quarter, we expect an EBITDA similar to that seen in the first quarter of 2024.

儘管成本和費用因運費和通貨膨脹的影響而增加，但成長仍由銷售增加、銷售組合改善以及新能源解決方案的成果所推動。對於今年第一季度，我們預計 EBITDA 將與 2024 年第一季相似。

Moving now to slide 9, we will talk about another great quarter of Ultracargo. The installed capacity remained at 1,067,000 cubic meters. The cubic meters sold grew by 9% year over year, mainly due to the start of operations at Opla and Rondonópolis and greater handling of fuels in Vila do Conde.

現在轉到幻燈片 9，我們將討論 Ultracargo 的另一個偉大的季度。裝置容量維持在106.7萬立方公尺。銷售立方公尺數年增 9%，主要由於奧普拉 (Opla) 和龍多諾波利斯 (Rondonónpolis) 開始營運以及維拉杜孔德 (Vila do Conde) 燃料處理量增加。

Ultracargo's net revenue reached BRL283 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, 10% higher year over year. In 2024, net revenues totaled BRL1,076 million, a 6% increase over 2023. The growth reflects higher cubic meters sold, an improved sales mix, and higher spot and contractual tariffs, partially offset by lower spot sales of fuel.

2024 年第四季度，Ultracargo 的淨收入達到 2.83 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 10%。2024 年淨收入總計 10.76 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2023 年成長 6%。這一增長反映了銷售立方米數的增加、銷售組合的改善以及現貨和合約關稅的提高，但被燃料現貨銷售額的下降部分抵消。

Combined costs and expenses were 11% higher than that of the fourth quarter of '23, due to higher maintenance costs, personnel expenses, mainly variable compensation, and consulting services for expansion projects. Ultracargo's EBITDA totaled BRL169 million in the quarter, a 9% growth year over year, driven by an improved sales mix, higher tariffs from spot sales, and contractual adjustments. EBITDA margin was 60% in the fourth quarter of '24, the same level as in the fourth quarter of '23.

綜合成本和費用比 23 年第四季高出 11%，原因是維護成本、人員費用（主要是變動薪資）以及擴建專案的諮詢服務增加。本季度，Ultracargo 的 EBITDA 總計 1.69 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 9%，這得益於銷售組合改善、現貨銷售關稅提高以及合約調整。24 年第四季的 EBITDA 利潤率為 60%，與 23 年第四季持平。

In 2024, Ultracargo's EBITDA was BRL668 million, a 6% growth over '23, reflecting higher cubic meters sold, higher spot tariffs, and contractual adjustments, despite increased expenses. And for this first quarter, we expect an EBITDA similar to that seen in the first quarter of 2024.

2024 年，Ultracargo 的 EBITDA 為 6.68 億巴西雷亞爾，較 23 年增長 6%，儘管費用增加，但銷售立方米數增加、現貨關稅增加以及合約調整。對於今年第一季度，我們預計 EBITDA 將與 2024 年第一季相似。

To conclude the presentation today, moving on to the next slide, number 10, let's talk about our investments. In 2024, we invested BRL2,213 million, with BRL1,304 million allocated to expansion, representing 59% of the total. This amount was BRL465 million lower than the plan, mainly due to the postponement of investments to 2025, and highlights to Ipiranga's infrastructure projects and new Ultracargo's terminals, as well as efficiency gains in Ultracargo's projects.

為了結束今天的演講，我們來看下一張投影片，第 10 張，我們來談談我們的投資。2024年，我們投資了22.13億雷亞爾，其中13.04億雷亞爾用於擴張，佔總數的59%。這一金額比計劃低了 4.65 億雷亞爾，主要原因是投資推遲到 2025 年，並​​重點關注伊皮蘭加的基礎設施項目和新的 Ultracargo 碼頭，以及 Ultracargo 項目的效率提升。

I also remind you of our 2025 investment plan that was announced at the beginning of this month, totaling BRL2,542 million. We are also allocating approximately 60% to expansion, and the highlights are detailed both in this presentation and in the market announcement.

我還提醒大家，我們本月初宣布的 2025 年投資計畫總額為 25.42 億巴西雷亞爾。我們還將分配約 60% 用於擴張，其中的亮點在本簡報和市場公告中均有詳細說明。

Well, this concludes my presentation. We will now move on to the Q&A session to answer the questions you may have. Thank you very much for your attention.

好了，我的演講到此結束。我們現在將進入問答環節來回答大家可能會提出的問題。非常感謝您的關注。

(Operator Instructions) Gabrielle Barra, Citi.

（操作員指示）花旗銀行的 Gabrielle Barra。

(interpreted) Well, thank you very much for taking my questions. I have two quick questions. The first one, something that attracted my attention, concerned the margins of Ipiranga. When we started the year, we had an expectation of margins which would be better than 2024 because of all that interesting information you shared about unlawful practices.

（翻譯）好的，非常感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個簡單的問題。第一個引起我注意的是伊皮蘭加的邊緣地區。當我們開始新的一年時，我們預計利潤率將比 2024 年更好，因為您分享了有關非法行為的所有有趣資訊。

And there was a perspective of improvement. And there had been some gains throughout the year, last year. So we really expected 2024 to have been a better year in terms of profitability to the industry. And when you look through competitors, it's something that didn't turn out to be a reality.

並且還有改善的前景。去年全年都有一些成長。因此，我們確實預期 2024 年將是產業獲利能力較好的一年。但當你審視競爭對手時，你會發現這並沒有成為現實。

So my question is exactly about that. What do you expect for 2025? In your opinion, do you think that the industry, this potential increase in margin, would come just -- if we change that unlawful practices? Is there anything limited within the industry that can help to improvement?

所以我的問題正是關於這個。您對 2025 年有何期待？在您看來，如果我們改變這種非法行為，您是否認為該行業利潤的潛在成長會是公平的？行業內是否存在可以幫助改進的限制？

I know how competitive it is, but anything else that can be done to improve margin sourcing, pricing? I would like to hear more about this dynamic of margins, analyzing '24 and looking ahead to '25 to understand the dynamic of the whole industry.

我知道競爭有多激烈，但還有什麼其他方法可以改善利潤來源和定價嗎？我希望聽到更多有關利潤率動態的信息，分析 24 年並展望 25 年，以了解整個行業的動態。

My second question concerns investment analyzing Ultra, its role. This is the company that has the most comfortable balance sheet to make investments when interest rates are higher, macroeconomic challenges.

我的第二個問題涉及 Ultra 的投資分析及其作用。當利率較高、宏觀經濟面臨挑戰時，這家公司的資產負債表最適合進行投資。

So my question is, how are you going to use that favorable balance towards the benefit of the company during a moment which companies are being more conservative in terms of investment? Would it be the right time to increase that moderation pace, try to regain more market share? So that's what I would like to hear from you, understanding the fact that you have a more favorable balance sheet than the competition. Thank you.

所以我的問題是，在公司投資方面更加保守的時期，您將如何利用這種有利的平衡來為公司謀利？現在是否是加快緩和步伐、嘗試重新奪回更多市場份額的正確時機？所以這就是我想聽到的，了解你們的資產負債表比競爭對手更有利的事實。謝謝。

(interpreted) Good morning, Gabriel. This is Rodrigo speaking. Starting from Ipiranga's margins and the slide that we showed you, it was exactly to highlight the main factors that have affected the margins throughout the year and not uniformly. The year started with the effect of Amapá and Paraná, but it ended up having an effect on the fourth quarter of biodiesel.

（翻譯）早上好，加布里​​埃爾。我是羅德里戈。從伊皮蘭加的利潤率和我們向您展示的幻燈片開始，它恰恰突出了影響全年利潤率的主要因素，而不是統一的因素。今年年初受到阿馬帕颶風和巴拉那颶風的影響，但最終對第四季的生物柴油產生了影響。

And what happened throughout the year? In addition to the increase of the mix of fuel, and supply and demand, the biodiesel price as opposed to diesel price really peaked in the third quarter, which really gives an advantage to distributors who do not make the appropriate mix.

那這一年發生了什麼事呢？除了燃料組合和供需增加之外，相對於柴油價格，生物柴油價格在第三季度確實達到了頂峰，這確實為沒有適當組合的經銷商帶來了優勢。

Those who have unlawful practices, they end up benefiting in a market. That's what can be seen in our highway stations. Why have we suffered so much? Because we have our resellers maintain competitiveness in this scenario where there were more unlawful practices concerning biodiesel.

那些有非法行為的人最終在市場上獲益。這就是我們在高速公路車站看到的景象。我們為何遭受如此多的苦難？因為我們讓我們的經銷商在生物柴油違法行為增加的情況下保持競爭力。

Now, looking ahead, and if we refer back to what happened in 2024, the return on investment is really low, lower than fixed investments. There has been approval of the Renovabil law and the anticipation in monophase for PIS COFINS in ethanol. So it means that companies that are paying tax can really compete in a fair play field. But of course, there is a risk of the operation.

現在，展望未來，如果我們回顧 2024 年發生的情況，投資報酬率確實很低，低於固定投資。Renovabil 法案已獲得批准，並且預期 PIS COFINS 將在乙醇中單相化。這意味著納稅的公司可以真正在公平的環境中競爭。但當然，手術是有風險的。

So this is the expectation. Trying to move ahead in our fight against the regularities concerning biodiesel, in the first quarter, the spread reduced because diesel prices went up and there was a reduction of the biodiesel prices because of the crop season. So I think that's going to help, but we still have to have better regulation of biodiesel to avoid these asymmetries between those that pay tax and those that do not.

這就是期望。我們試圖在與生物柴油相關的常規鬥爭中取得進展，在第一季度，由於柴油價格上漲，價差縮小，而由於農作物季節，生物柴油價格下降。所以我認為這會有所幫助，但我們仍然需要對生物柴油進行更好的監管，以避免納稅人和非納稅人之間的不對稱。

Let me hand it over to Pedro Guedes, our CFO of Ipiranga, to answer the question about CapEx.

讓我把有關資本支出的問題交給 Ipiranga 的財務長 Pedro Guedes 來回答。

(interpreted) Good morning. Thank you for the question. This is Pedro speaking. Concerning CapEx opportunities and a positive balance sheet, we have reduced the number of our service stations. So in terms of branded stations, we'd rather focus on quality than on speed. It is a pace and acceleration that will be determined on the opportunities that we are considering all the time.

（翻譯）早安。謝謝你的提問。我是佩德羅。考慮到資本支出機會和積極的資產負債表，我們減少了服務站的數量。因此，就品牌電台而言，我們更注重品質而不是速度。這個速度和加速度將取決於我們一直在考慮的機會。

When we correlate that with market share, market share is a resulting of the activities, more than a target. Part of our portfolio is correlated with branded stations, resellers. This is something that has given us good stability, and part of our portfolio are just more opportunistic initiatives, spot market, and what shows to us. So branded, we'll think about quality and brandy, and the other spot will just depend on margins and the benefits we might derive from that.

當我們將其與市場份額關聯起來時，市場份額是活動的結果，而不僅僅是一個目標。我們的部分產品組合與品牌站、經銷商相關。這給我們帶來了良好的穩定性，我們的投資組合的一部分只是更多的機會主義舉措、現貨市場以及向我們展示的東西。因此，對於品牌，我們會考慮品質和品牌，而其他方面則取決於利潤和我們可能從中獲得的利益。

(interpreted) Great. Thank you. And let me congratulate the new officers that you have now.

（解釋）太好了。謝謝。讓我向你們現在的新官員表示祝賀。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

羅德里戈·阿爾梅達，桑坦德。

(interpreted)

（翻譯）

(inaudible) I would like to talk about Ultragaz. Within your portfolio, it seems that Ultragaz is the platform that are using to create more options of growth. It is contributing with additional EBITDA for no business. Can you please share with us what is exciting you the most in terms of no businesses?

（聽不清楚）我想談談 Ultragaz。在您的投資組合中，Ultragaz 似乎是用來創造更多成長選擇的平台。它為無業務業務貢獻了額外的 EBITDA。您能否與我們分享一下，就無生意而言，最讓您興奮的是什麼？

Where can you expect more mid and long-term returns? Something that can give us an understanding of magnitude. It can be with gas, stellar gas. What can you share with us, really, about the use of Ultragaz as the platform of growth for the group?

您在哪裡可以期待更多的中長期回報？一些可以讓我們了解大小的東西。它可以與氣體、恆星氣體一起存在。您能否與我們分享一些有關使用 Ultragaz 作為集團成長平台的資訊？

And secondly, I would like to ask about working capital. Can you talk about reduction of inventory levels in the quarter? Probably it's related with biodiesel inventory levels. It would be good. We said something about that in the last call.

其次，我想問營運資金的問題。您能談談本季庫存水準的下降情況嗎？這可能與生物柴油庫存水準有關。這會很好。我們在上次通話中談到了這一點。

And finally, capital leverage. We've already asked about that, and we've seen a difference in buying back. So considering your history and what has changed, really, what has changed to put you into buying back the shares? So whatever you can share with us would be most appreciated. Mostly appreciated.

最後是資本槓桿。我們已經詢問過這個問題，並且看到了回購方面的差異。那麼，考慮到您的歷史和已經發生的變化，實際上，是什麼變化促使您回購股票？因此，如果您能與我們分享任何信息，我們將不勝感激。非常感謝。

(interpreted) Good morning. This is Tabarjara speaking. Thank you for the question. As you were talking about new energy, we are happy with what we've developed. The idea is not to have segregated businesses. In this quarter, we have combined our businesses. We can see individual contribution of new energy, new fuel sources of about 5%, with a trend to have an increase over the months.

（翻譯）早安。我是塔巴賈拉 (Tabarjara)。謝謝你的提問。正如您所說，我們對所開發的能源感到非常滿意。我們的想法並不是要把企業分開。本季度，我們合併了我們的業務。我們可以看到，新能源、新燃料來源的單獨貢獻約為5%，並且呈現逐月成長的趨勢。

But we've been confirming our thesis of having a portfolio of energy solutions. They are getting close to maturation level, but there's still a lot to develop, really. In the year of 2024, we started to operate with biomethane. And then it was part of the operation by the end of the year, with a relevant portfolio of clients, confirming our thesis.

但我們一直在確認我們擁有一系列能源解決方案的論點。它們已經接近成熟水平，但實際上仍有許多需要發展的地方。2024年，我們開始使用生物甲烷。然後，它成為了年底營運的一部分，擁有了相關的客戶組合，證實了我們的論點。

And also, negotiation of energy in the free market, something more recent. Still a lot to do, but we are very excited about it.

此外，自由市場中的能源談判也是最近才出現的。還有很多事情要做，但我們對此感到非常興奮。

(interpreted) This is Pedro speaking. Thank you for the question. You've understood that. In terms of working capital, we've got that by managing the inventories in the previous quarter. We talked about our planned movement of making investments, biodiesel, ethanol. And this is something that was done gradually throughout the quarter. In addition, we've also made additional efforts to have oil derivatives at a more balanced account. So inventory, especially of biofuels.

（翻譯）我是佩德羅。謝謝你的提問。你已經明白了。在營運資金方面，我們透過上一季的庫存管理獲得了營運資金。我們討論了投資、生物柴油、乙醇等計劃。這是整個季度逐步完成的事情。此外，我們還做出了額外的努力，使石油衍生品的帳戶更加平衡。因此需要庫存，尤其是生物燃料的庫存。

Rodrigo, concerning capital allocation, why buyback? Because the price of shares went down. And we can have better control of investment. Concerning our dividend, which is how we want to return real value to our shareholders. The payout was 35%, about 25%. And it's part with the buyback strategy. Depending on the price of those BRL25 million, that would be something like BRL500 million.

羅德里戈，關於資本配置，為什麼要回購？因為股價下跌了。我們能夠更好地控制投資。關於我們的股息，這就是我們希望為股東帶來真正價值回報的方式。賠付率為35%，約25%。這是回購策略的一部分。根據這 2,500 萬巴西雷亞爾的價格，這個數字大約是 5 億巴西雷亞爾。

(interpreted) Great. A quick follow-up concerning working capital. Do you still see space for optimization, especially at Ipiranga throughout the year because of higher cost of capital? Anything to be done there in terms of optimizing inventory levels? Anything that can be of help?

（翻譯）偉大的。關於營運資金的快速後續。您是否仍然看到優化的空間，尤其是由於資本成本較高，Ipiranga 全年都有優化的空間？在優化庫存水準方面可以做些什麼嗎？有什麼可以幫忙的？

(interpreted) Well, I think turnover is something. Rather, the working capital is something important, and we always focus on that. There was a price increase in this quarter. We do have some initiatives to optimize the working capital, focusing more in Ipiranga right now, but we still have to observe all the changes in market conditions.

（解釋）嗯，我認為營業額是很重要的。相反，營運資金很重要，我們始終關注這一點。本季價格有所上漲。我們確實採取了一些措施來優化營運資金，目前更多地關注伊皮蘭加，但我們仍然必須觀察市場條件的所有變化。

Matheus Enfeldt, UBS.

瑞銀集團 Matheus Enfeldt。

(interpreted) Great result. The first question is about capital allocation and potential of additional diversification at the holding more than at the subsidiary levels, and focused on your feelings about investments rather than short-term plans. What does Ultra have to see to get more excited, to start making more investments, such as the investments you've made at Hidrovias?

（解釋）很好的結果。第一個問題是關於資本配置和控股公司而非子公司層面額外多樣化的潛力，並且專注於您對投資的感受而不是短期計劃。Ultra 需要看到什麼才能變得更加興奮，並開始進行更多投資，例如您在 Hidrovias 所做的投資？

If you had an opportunity today, in other words, how would you determine that? Would you prefer lower leverage, lower interest rates, or would you have to wait for the maturation of investments in Hidrovias, or even have more labor for investments? So what would be really your plan towards that?

換句話說，如果您今天有機會，您會如何決定呢？您是否希望更低的槓桿率、更低的利率，或者您必須等待 Hidrovias 的投資成熟，甚至需要投入更多的勞動力進行投資？那麼你對此的具體計畫是什麼？

And concerning Ultracargo, you have a very well-defined pipeline with deliveries of installed capacity for 2025. It has been part of your investment plan. But there has also been a reduction of expansion in 2026 and 2027. That's what I understood. Does it make sense? Have you been considering other possibilities of growth in Ultracargo? And would it be possible to adjust the CapEx throughout the year to include potential opportunities that might come to you during the year of 2025 and ahead?

關於 Ultracargo，你們有一個非常明確的管道，其中交付了 2025 年的安裝容量。它已成為您投資計劃的一部分。但2026年和2027年的擴張也會減少。這就是我的理解。這有意義嗎？您是否考慮過 Ultracargo 的其他成長可能性？並且，是否有可能全年調整資本支出，以涵蓋 2025 年及以後可能出現的潛在機會？

(interpreted) Hi, Matheus. Thank you for the questions. Let me start about capital allocation first. I think you've answered your question to some extent. These are the two factors. First, we have a balance sheet, and we can make new movements, but it will depend on the capacity to execute and execute well.

（譯）嗨，馬修斯。謝謝您的提問。我先從資本配置說起。我認為你已經在某種程度上回答了你的問題。這是兩個因素。首先，我們有資產負債表，我們可以做出新的動作，但這將取決於執行能力和良好的執行能力。

We have a plan of integration and of value generation with Hidrovias, and it's ongoing. Lots of efforts towards that. But we are still considering potential investments. And if we have good return on investment and execution capacity, we can consider new capital allocations, but not short-term.

我們與 Hidrovias 有一個整合和價值創造計劃，並且該計劃正在進行中。為此付出了很多努力。但我們仍在考慮潛在的投資。如果我們有良好的投資報酬率和執行能力，我們可以考慮新的資本配置，但不是短期的。

(interpreted) Matheus, this is Décio speaking. Good morning. Thank you for the question. We've been making investments in growth in 2024. It was a record of investments at Ultracargo. Port expansions and our inland project. And the results are going to be noticed throughout the year. We have Opla, other railway systems, [Palmeranti's] second quarter, [Itaki] at the end of the year.

（翻譯）馬修斯，我是德西奧。早安.謝謝你的提問。我們一直在為 2024 年的成長進行投資。這是 Ultracargo 的投資記錄。港口擴建和我們的內陸項目。其成果將在全年顯現。我們有 Opla、其他鐵路系統、[Palmeranti] 第二季、[Itaki] 年底。

Strong investments. The level of investments for 2025 are at the same level as previous year. We are going to start the expansion in SWAPI. SWAPI has become an important hub for ethanol receivings. And we have a very robust pipeline. In our portfolio with investments, we talk about the railway structure in Santos, near Piers. We don't see a slowing down. But with high interest rate, what we have to do is reallocate as demand increases. Our vision today is not to make changes in the plans that we have presented to you in our annual events.

強勁的投資。2025年的投資水準與前一年持平。我們將開始在 SWAPI 中進行擴充。SWAPI已成為乙醇接收的重要樞紐。我們擁有非常強大的管道。在我們的投資組合中，我們討論了桑托斯碼頭附近的鐵路結構。我們沒有看到任何放緩的跡象。但在高利率的情況下，我們要做的就是隨著需求的增加而重新分配。我們今天的願景是不改變我們在年度活動中向您提出的計劃。

(interpreted) Quick follow up on Pizzinato's answer. The timeline of expectations for maturation of your efforts in Hidrovias that you showed in Ultra Day by 2025, have it all ready. Is it maintained as an expectation from your side? Yes, we maintain that.

（解釋）快速跟進 Pizzinato 的回答。您在超級日展示的 Hidrovias 努力在 2025 年之前成熟的預期時間表已經準備好了。您是否期望它能維持下去？是的，我們堅持這一點。

Pedro Soares, BTG Pactual.

佩德羅·蘇亞雷斯，BTG Pactual。

(interpreted) The first question concerning your investment plan that you announced some weeks ago. If I recall that, in your last earnings release conference, you had anticipated that there would be a decrease compared to what had been budgeted or forecast for 2024 because of gain of efficiency and the postponement that you mentioned. I don't know whether you can share with us a breakdown within this number. Within the investment plan of 2024, what had to be postponed for 2025 and what was resulted from efficiency gains? And in your plan for 2025, would there be more gain of efficiency to be delivered?

（翻譯）第一個問題涉及您幾週前宣布的投資計劃。我記得，在您上次的收益發布會上，您曾預計，由於效率的提高和您提到的推遲，與 2024 年的預算或預測相比，收入會有所下降。我不知道您是否可以與我們分享這個數字的細目。在 2024 年的投資計畫中，哪些項目必須延後到 2025 年，以及效率的提升帶來了哪些結果？在您的 2025 年計畫中，是否會實現更多的效率提升？

And finally, concerning Ipiranga's strategy, especially B2B, in general, it has suffered more than B2C because of the unlawful practices. And we've seen some strategies executed by other players of TRR purchase, addressing this loss of market share, especially in B2B. Is it part of your plan? Could you please tell us more about the rationale and the possibilities that you see?

最後，關於伊皮蘭加的策略，特別是 B2B 策略，總體而言，由於非法行為，其遭受的損失比 B2C 更大。我們已經看到其他 TRR 購買參與者實施了一些策略，以解決市場份額的損失，尤其是在 B2B 領域。這是你計劃的一部分嗎？您能否向我們詳細介紹您所看到的理由和可能性？

(interpreted) Thank you. Good morning, Pedro. Thank you for the questions. Now, starting from CapEx, when we share the plan for the year, this is the maximum CapEx that we allocate for the period. It's a combination of all projects that had been approved with the Board of Directors to be executed throughout the year. It already has the maximum level of approval that would be made in terms of investments. Of course, we always focused on efficient management of such investments. And the main highlight in phase efficiency comes from Ultracargo this year, for example.

（翻譯）謝謝。早上好，佩德羅。謝謝您的提問。現在，從資本支出開始，當我們分享年度計劃時，這是我們為該期間分配的最大資本支出。它是董事會批准全年執行的所有項目的組合。它已經獲得了投資方面最高級別的批准。當然，我們始終注重對此類投資進行有效管理。例如，階段效率的主要亮點來自今年的Ultracargo。

If you look at the total CapEx approved, it was about BRL400 million, BRL450 million below plan. Half of that of efficiency, most of it comes from postponement of some projects because of company decision. And there was a delay in one permit concession. It applies to infrastructure and the expansions of ultra cargo. This is what we have in the plan for the year.

如果你看一下批准的總資本支出，它約為 4 億雷亞爾，比計劃低 4.5 億雷亞爾。其中一半的效率，大部分來自於公司決定延後一些專案。其中一項許可證優惠的發放被推遲。它適用於基礎設施和超大型貨運的擴張。這就是我們今年的計畫。

Now, speaking about B2B and TRR, this is also learning for us. It is a parallel business that we have been focusing on, mobility, new businesses. We are learning and we are going to determine whether it makes sense or if we are going to maintain as is.

現在，談到B2B和TRR，這對我們來說也是一種學習。我們一直關注的是平行業務，即行動性和新業務。我們正在學習，並將確定它是否有意義或是否要維持現狀。

Monique Greco, Itaú BBA.

Monique Greco，義大利 BBA。

(interpreted) Hello, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I'm going to ask two questions as well. One, takes us back to the discussion of Ipiranga's margins. The fourth quarter had an excessive inventory in the whole chain. And this year we still have got many high inventory levels because of high interest rate in February. So we'd like to see how you've seen that progression of inventory levels in the beginning of the year.

（翻譯）你好，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我也要問兩個問題。首先，讓我們回顧一下伊皮蘭加的利潤率的討論。第四季整個鏈條庫存過剩。今年由於二月利率較高，庫存水準仍然較高。因此，我們想看看您如何看待年初庫存水準的進展。

And do you see any effect of trying to sell more in the market? And within Ultragaz, a broader question, we've seen the news and we've been monitoring the discussion of the program [GAS] to everyone in the population. And the model they are considering is the replacement of the current benefit to low-income people to a benefit that would be provided as product.

您是否看到嘗試在市場上銷售更多產品有什麼效果？在 Ultragaz 內部，這是一個更廣泛的問題，我們看到了新聞，並且一直在監控每個人對該計劃 [GAS] 的討論。他們正在考慮的模式是將目前對低收入者的福利替換為以產品形式提供的福利。

Let's say a bottle of gas that would be provided for free. What is your take on this discussion with this model? If confirmed, what would you expect in terms of changes to the industry because of that?

假設有一瓶免費提供的汽油。您對這個模型的討論有何看法？如果得到確認，您預計該行業將會發生哪些變化？

(interpreted) Good morning, Monique. This is Pedro Guedes with Ipiranga. You've understood that the fourth quarter we increased our inventory because of arbitration and also the incentives of anticipating the purchase, really to avoid tax. And we are going to observe that. We are now going to see a reduction of these high inventory levels going into normal levels and we expect to have it normalized by the end of March.

（翻譯）早安，莫妮克。我是佩德羅·格德斯和伊皮蘭加。您已經了解，第四季度我們增加了庫存，因為仲裁以及預期購買的激勵措施實際上是為了避稅。我們將觀察這一點。我們現在將看到這些高庫存水準下降到正常水平，我們預計到 3 月底將恢復正常。

(interpreted) Monique, this is Tabajara speaking about GAS to everyone, the government program. We are taking part in the discussion, trying to support the government. We think it's a very positive movement by the government. This is something being discussed all over, energy poverty, those that do not have access to reliable energy sources.

(翻譯) 莫妮克，我是塔巴哈拉，向大家介紹政府計畫 GAS。我們正在參與討論，試圖支持政府。我們認為這是政府採取的非常積極的措施。這是人們普遍討論的問題，即能源貧困，即無法獲得可靠能源的人。

The program is applicable in Brazil, but it's a smaller scale. Addressing it accordingly as a society would be extremely good and we try to support that. This is going to be done through the industry, through the sector. A lot is being discussed. The government is leading the process.

該計劃在巴西也適用，但規模較小。作為一個社會，採取相應的措施來解決這個問題將會非常好，我們會盡力支持這一點。這將透過整個產業、整個部門來實現。很多事情正在討論中。政府正在主導這一進程。

We think it's quite positive. It means an improvement to us as a society. We've developed a lot in terms of LPG throughout the decades and we are a reference to the world. But that would be very positive. Having GAS being brought to those that need it the most, that would be very good for us as a society.

我們認為這是非常積極的。這意味著我們社會的進步。幾十年來，我們在液化石油氣方面取得了長足的發展，成為世界的標竿。但這將是非常積極的。將 GAS 提供給最需要的人，這對我們社會來說非常有益。

Regis Cardoso, XP.

雷吉斯·卡多佐，XP。

(interpreted) Let me start by congratulating [Senato Ballade for your new positions. There are two topics that I would like to address. First, increasing capital of Hidrovias]. And a second one about branding at Hidrovias. The management of Hidrovias is expecting a capital increase in the first quarter in March. So I would like to hear your perspective about it after the announcements that have been made. We believe that the capital increase is a positive development We believe that the capital increase would be of about BRL1 billion, BRL1.25 million concerning the gross up of your participation in the BRL500 million range.

（譯）首先，我要祝賀[Senato Ballade 為您介紹新的職位。我想談兩個話題。第一，增加伊茲羅維亞斯的首都。第二個是關於 Hidrovias 的品牌建立。Hidrovias 管理層預計 3 月第一季將增加資本。因此，我想聽聽您在宣布這些消息後對此的看法。我們認為增資是一個積極的發展，我們認為增資將達到約 10 億雷亞爾，其中 125 萬雷亞爾的增幅在 5 億雷亞爾的範圍內。

Does it make sense the price to be close to that of the screen price to offer maybe an economic incentive for minorities to join in? I'd like to understand, on your take, how much capital would it be necessary and what would be the purposes of it? A CapEx, less leverage, up to a specific EBITDA net debt. EBITDA is really affected by the drought. It's a question about the rationale and the dynamic of capital increase.

將價格定得接近銀幕價格，為少數族裔的加入提供經濟激勵，這是否合理？我想了解，您認為需要多少資本以及其用途是什麼？資本支出減去槓桿，達到特定的 EBITDA 淨債務。EBITDA 確實受到乾旱的影響。這是關於增資的原理和動態的問題。

My second question concerns amortization. The anticipation that you've been offering is running below amortization. What is the system behind it? Is it short-term contract? Are branded initiatives costing less? Is it an anticipated push? Although I don't think there is any scale there between amortization and branded initiatives. These are my two topics.

我的第二個問題涉及攤銷。您提供的預期低於攤銷額。背後的體係是怎樣的？是短期合約嗎？品牌計劃的成本是否更低？這是預期的推動嗎？儘管我認為攤銷和品牌計劃之間沒有任何規模。這是我的兩個主題。

(interpreted) Thank you. Hi, Regis. Thank you very much for your question. I was starting from Hidrovias. We had in December one initiative, but we didn't increase capital because of information asymmetry. Because of that, as we anticipated in March, we are going to have the capital increase formally announced. The two main elements that are considered are unleash the growth of the company and reduce leverage. There is a covenants in a bond issuance of Hidrovias below 3.5 times prevents new investments.

（翻譯）謝謝。你好，雷吉斯。非常感謝您的提問。我從 Hidrovias 出發。我們在12月份有一個舉措，但是由於資訊不對稱，我們沒有增加資本。因此，正如我們在三月所預期的那樣，我們將正式宣布增資。考慮的兩個主要因素是釋放公司的成長潛力和降低槓桿率。Hidrovias 債券發行中存在低於 3.5 倍的契約，從而阻止了新的投資。

So that's a limitation of appropriate management and cost capital structure in the company. So we want really to deal with those two issues. Release really the opportunities for more growth and reducing really the capital limitation. And the company is going to announce it eventually.

所以這是公司適當的管理和成本資本結構的限制。所以我們確實想解決這兩個問題。真正釋放更多成長機會並真正減少資本限制。該公司最終將會宣布這項消息。

About Ipiranga, part of that is because of the postponement. We had a CapEx increase compared to anticipated capital in Ipiranga branded stations. And it is following volumes. There is an amortization correlated with volumes. And depending on the volume and of this different branded initiatives, there might be more or less recognition of this bonus that it comes from it.

關於伊皮蘭加，部分原因是因為延期。與伊皮蘭加品牌加油站的預期資本相比，我們的資本支出增加。而且它還在繼續增長。攤銷與交易量相關。根據不同品牌計劃的數量和程度，人們對其帶來的獎勵可能會或多或少地得到認可。

(interpreted) Okay. Thank you. Just one quick follow-up about Hidrovias. Any concerns of consolidation? Do you want to go over 51%? Just thinking about how much more capital would come in addition to yours in terms of capital increase. And I always wondered whether the fact that this is [Novo Mercado], whether it would have any implications there. I'm not sure I understood your question, Regis.

（翻譯）好的。謝謝。關於 Hidrovias 只有一個快速的後續問題。對於合併有任何擔憂嗎？你想超過 51% 嗎？只是想想除了你的資本增加之外，還會有多少資本增加。我一直想知道，這是 [Novo Mercado] 的事實，是否會對那裡產生任何影響。我不確定我是否理解了你的問題，雷吉斯。

We are going to support the company in whatever it takes. This is something that we've been doing and it's following exactly the idea that we've had in mind since the beginning.

我們將盡一切努力支持該公司。這是我們一直在做的事情，它完全遵循了我們從一開始就想到的想法。

Guilherme Martins, Goldman Sachs.

吉列爾姆·馬丁斯，高盛。

(interpreted) Hello. Good morning. Great results. Quick questions. First, about this agenda against unlawful practices. A lot has been said, approval of some federal initiatives with ethanol. A player of the area said that there would be some gains from EBITDA from these measures. Any estimate that you would like to share with us? What would be gains in profitability for Ipiranga with this measure? So more exposure to ethanol.

（翻譯）你好。早安.效果非常好。快速提問。第一，關於打擊非法行為的議程。已經有很多言論，批准了一些有關乙醇的聯邦措施。該地區的一位業內人士表示，這些措施將為 EBITDA 帶來一些收益。您有任何估價願意與我們分享嗎？採取這項措施後，伊皮蘭加公司的獲利能力會提高多少？因此更多地接觸乙醇。

And second question, Pizzinato, about capital allocation. Ultra [part] balance is light below what had been the initial plans. Pisenav has said that you do not expect something non-organic to need the capital. So, does it make sense that you are going to run at about this level of 2.5 more than any other?

第二個問題，Pizzinato，關於資本配置。超[部分]餘額低於最初的計劃。皮謝納夫 (Pisenav) 曾說過，你不會指望非有機的東西需要資本。那麼，以比其他任何人多 2.5 左右的水平運行是否有意義？

(interpreted) Good morning, Guilherme. Short answer about that unlawful practice agenda is no. We are not calling it informal practice. We are calling it unlawful, right? He was using really informal, but no, it's unlawful. It's against law. If all these practices are solved, we would go to a level that we used to have in 2016, 2017. If, as a country, we can solve these problems.

（翻譯）早安，吉列爾梅。關於該非法實踐議程的簡短回答是「否」。我們不稱之為非正式做法。我們稱之為非法，對嗎？他使用的語言確實很不正式，但這並不合法。這是違法的。如果所有這些問題都得到解決，我們將恢復到 2016 年、2017 年的水準。如果我們作為一個國家能夠解決這些問題。

Now, concerning capital allocation, I'm afraid I didn't understand your question. Ultra is running at a leverage of 1.4, and the guidance you have shared was 1.2, 1.5.

現在，關於資本配置，恐怕我沒有理解您的問題。Ultra 的槓桿率為 1.4，而您分享的指導值為 1.2、1.5。

(interpreted) With interest rate going up, do you expect to run at a higher level from now on?

(解釋) 隨著利率上升，您預期今後利率會維持在更高的水平嗎？

(interpreted) Yes, closer to the bottom, yeah.

（解釋）是的，更接近底部，是的。

Gustavo Sadka, Bradesco BBI.

古斯塔沃·薩德卡（Gustavo Sadka），Bradesco BBI。

(interpreted) I have two questions. First, when we analyzed the results that the Petro Agency report since the beginning of February has been showing a healthier margin. We don't know what's reseller, what is distribution, but the network as a whole seems, the whole system seems to have healthier margins.

（翻譯）我有兩個問題。首先，當我們分析石油機構報告的結果時，我們發現自 2 月初以來利潤率一直處於更健康的水平。我們不知道什麼是經銷商，什麼是經銷商，但整個網路似乎、整個系統似乎擁有更健康的利潤率。

Even taking into consideration the increases of ICMS and the increased price of diesel by Hidrovias. Is it something that you've been observing at Ipiranga and Hidrovias? Is it something that has been levered by the three big players? Or do you think it's a natural trend of the whole ecosystem after tougher times in the fourth quarter?

即使考慮到 ICMS 的成長和 Hidrovias 柴油價格的上漲。這是您在伊皮蘭加和希德羅維亞斯觀察到的現象嗎？這是被三大巨頭利用的東西嗎？或者您認為這是在經歷了第四季度的艱難時期之後整個生態系統的自然趨勢？

My second question about the informal and lawful practices. The media has been publishing that and even at Branga stuff has been saying that the National Agency of Petro is investigating and really inspecting further biodiesel, mass balance. Do you see any results coming out of it?

我的第二個問題是關於非正式和合法的做法。媒體一直在報導此事，甚至布蘭加（Branga）的報導也稱，國家石油局正在調查並進一步檢查生物柴油的品質平衡。您看到有什麼結果嗎？

Do you expect it to impact your results in the short term? And the remaining agenda, right, against the unlawful practices such as the increase of tax solidarity in Sao Paulo, sea, bio, goals, environmental crimes. What elements should we pay closer attention to in 2025? And when are we going to observe any results of that in your own production data?

您預計它會在短期內影響您的業績嗎？其餘議程，對吧，反對非法行為，例如增加聖保羅的稅收團結、海洋、生物、目標、環境犯罪。2025年我們應該更關注哪些因素？我們什麼時候才能在您自己的生產數據中觀察到任何結果？

(interpreted) Concerning prices, probably you are seeing an increase in prices of Petrobras and the combination that it has with tax increase. The average price is going up and as such, the gain of inventory that companies have had will be transforming to larger benefits. So these are the short term effects. Now concerning our regulatory agenda, we can see better alignment of really the government to fight these practices.

（解釋）關於價格，您可能會看到巴西石油的價格上漲以及稅收的增加。平均價格正在上漲，企業原有的庫存收益將轉化為更大的利潤。這些都是短期影響。現在關於我們的監管議程，我們可以看到政府確實更好地協調一致地打擊這些做法。

The main point that we've been discussing is the combination of diesel and the combination with biodiesel. And this is something really serious in terms of tax and the government objectives in defining a required mix of biodiesel to reduce emissions and increasing really the mix, really to fight against the irregular practices that the industry normally execute.

我們一直在討論的重點是柴油的結合以及與生物柴油的結合。就稅收和政府目標而言，這確實是一件嚴重的事情，政府需要確定生物柴油的混合比例，以減少排放，並真正增加混合比例，真正打擊該行業通常執行的不規範做法。

(interpreted) My first question was the following. Considering the increase of Petrobras and tax, it seems that there is a higher margin for reseller and distribution. Have you been observing that or not?

（譯）我的第一個問題如下。考慮到巴西石油和稅收的增加，經銷商和分銷商的利潤率似乎更高。您是否觀察過這一點？

(interpreted) No, I've said that the price effect that you've been observed comes from price increase and taxes.

(解釋)不，我說的是，你觀察到的價格效應來自於價格上漲和稅收。

Further questions will be answered later by our Investors Relation team. We would like now to hand it over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzanato for his closing remarks. Mr. Pizzanato, you have the floor.

我們的投資者關係團隊稍後將回答其他問題。現在我們想把時間交給 Rodrigo Pizzanato 先生作閉幕發言。皮札納托先生，請您發言。

(interpreted) Well, thank you all very much for your questions. Thank you for your attention and interest. In May, we'll see each other again for the first quarter '25. Thank you very much. Have a great day.

（翻譯）好的，非常感謝大家的提問。感謝您的關注與興趣。五月，我們將在25年第一季再次相聚。非常感謝。祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you. This call is closed now. Thank you very much and disconnect your lines. Have a great day.

謝謝。此通話現已結束。非常感謝，請斷開您的線路。祝你有美好的一天。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。