Ultrapar Participacoes SA (UGP) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thanks for waiting. Welcome to the Ultrapar fourth quarter '24 results conference call. There is also simultaneous webcast that may be accessed through Ultrapar's website at ri.ultra.com.br and through MZiQ platform.

早安.感謝您的等待。歡迎參加 Ultrapar '24 年第四季業績電話會議。也可以透過 Ultrapar 網站 ri.ultra.com.br 和 MZiQ 平台存取同步網路廣播。

The presentation will be conducted by Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, Ultrapar's Chief Financial and Investor Relations Officer. And in the Q&A session, we will have the presence of Mr. Marcos Lutz, Ultrapar's CEO; and the CEOs of the businesses, Mr. Tabajara Bertelli, Mr. Décio Amaral, and Mr. Leonardo Linden.

演講將由 Ultrapar 財務與投資者關係長 Rodrigo Pizzinatto 先生主持。在問答環節，Ultrapar 執行長 Marcos Lutz 先生將出席；以及各企業執行長 Tabajara Bertelli 先生、Décio Amaral 先生和 Leonardo Linden 先生。

We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded, and all participants will be in a listen-only mode during the company's presentation. After Ultrapar's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. At that time, further instructions will be given. (Operator Instructions)

我們謹通知您，該活動正在錄製中，所有參與者在公司演示期間都將處於僅聽模式。Ultrapar 發言後，將進行問答環節。屆時，將作出進一步指示。（操作員說明）

Before proceeding, I would like to state that forward-looking statements are being made under the safe harbor of the Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1996. Forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Ultrapar management and all information currently available to the company.

在繼續之前，我想聲明，前瞻性陳述是根據 1996 年《證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港作出的。前瞻性陳述基於 Ultrapar 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的所有資訊。

They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions because they relate to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur in the future. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors could also affect the future results of Ultrapar and could cause results to differ materially from those expressed in the slide.

它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於未來可能發生或不發生的情況。投資者應了解，總體經濟狀況、行業狀況和其他營運因素也可能影響 Ultrapar 的未來業績，並可能導致結果與幻燈片中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto who will start our conference. Mr. Pizzinatto, you may begin.

現在我想將會議交給 Rodrigo Pizzinatto 先生，他將開始我們的會議。皮齊納托先生，您可以開始了。

Good morning, everyone. It is a pleasure to be here once more to talk about Ultrapar's results. And before I begin, I want to remind you of the reporting criteria and standards presented in slide 2. And now moving on to slide number 3.

大家早安。很高興能再次來到這裡談論 Ultrapar 的成果。在開始之前，我想提醒您投影片 2 中介紹的報告標準和標準。現在轉到第三張投影片。

As you can see in the chart in the top left side, our recurring EBITDA totaled BRL1.506 billion in the third quarter of '24, 24% lower than that of the third quarter of '23, mainly due to Ipiranga's lower EBITDA year over year. As you can also see that the accumulated EBITDA for '24 is BRL4.93 billion, 4% higher than that of the previous period.

正如您在左上方的圖表中看到的，2024 年第三季度我們的經常性 EBITDA 總計為 15.06 億雷亞爾，比 23 年第三季度下降 24%，主要是由於 Ipiranga 的 EBITDA 同比較低年。您還可以看到，24 年累計 EBITDA 為 49.3 億雷亞爾，比上一期增長 4%。

Ultrapar's net income was BRL698 million, 22% lower year over year due to the lower EBITDA I've just mentioned, partially offset by the lower net financial expenses. The net income year to date is BRL1.645 billion, 17% higher than the previous period.

Ultrapar 的淨利潤為 6.98 億雷亞爾，年減 22%，原因是我剛才提到的 EBITDA 較低，但部分被淨財務費用較低所抵銷。年初至今淨利為16.45億雷亞爾，較上一期成長17%。

I want to highlight that the share of profit of Edrovias was recorded with a two-month delay, contributed positively with BRL9 million in the third quarter of '24. Investments in its turn totaled BRL519 million in the third quarter of '24, up 37% compared to that of the third quarter of '23, mainly driven by higher investments in Ipiranga.

我想強調的是，Edrovias 的利潤份額在延遲兩個月後才被記錄，在 2024 年第三季貢獻了 900 萬雷亞爾的積極貢獻。2024 年第三季的投資總額為 5.19 億雷亞爾，比 23 年第三季成長 37%，這主要是由於 Ipiranga 投資增加所致。

We had an operating cash flow generation of BRL780 million in the third quarter of '24. It would have been BRL1.020 billion if we do not consider the reduction of BRL240 million in the draft discount operations in the third quarter of '24. The cash flow generation was 59% lower than that of the third quarter of '23, mainly due to lower EBITDA and higher investments in workingcapital.

2024 年第三季度，我們的營運現金流量為 7.8 億雷亞爾。如果我們不考慮2024年第三季匯票貼現業務減少2.4億雷亞爾的話，這一數字將為10.2億雷亞爾。現金流量產生量比 2023 年第三季低 59%，主要是由於 EBITDA 下降和營運資本投資增加。

And moving now to slide number 4 to talk about our liability management. We ended the third quarter with a net debt of [BRL7,968 billion], an increase of BRL268 million compared to June '24. The increase in net debt quarter over quarter is mainly due to the reduction of BRL240 million on the direct discount balance in the quarter and the payment of BRL276 million in dividends in August.

現在轉到第四張投影片來討論我們的責任管理。截至第三季末，我們的淨債務為 [79,680 億雷亞爾]，比 24 年 6 月增加了 2.68 億雷亞爾。淨債務季增主要是由於本季直接折現餘額減少2.4億雷亞爾以及8月支付股利2.76億雷亞爾。

These effects were partially offset by the receipt of BRL222 million of the last installment of Extrafarma sale. Our leverage went from 1.2 times in June '24 to 1.3 times in September '24 due to the lower LTM EBITDA and the higher net debt that I just mentioned.

這些影響被 Extrafarma 最後一筆銷售收入 2.22 億雷亞爾部分抵銷。由於 LTM EBITDA 較低且我剛才提到的淨債務較高，我們的槓桿率從 2024 年 6 月的 1.2 倍升至 24 年 9 月的 1.3 倍。

As you can also see in the table at the bottom of this slide, the net debt in September '24 added to the direct discount in vendor is (inaudible), BRL1.8 billion higher than the balance in September of last year, mainly resulting from the acquisition of a shareholding stake in (inaudible).

您也可以在這張投影片底部的表格中看到，24 年9 月的淨債務加上供應商的直接折扣（聽不清楚），比去年9 月的餘額高出18 億雷亞爾，主要是由於透過收購股權（聽不清楚）。

Moving now to the next slide, number 5. Let's talk about Ipiranga's results. Ipiranga sales volume in the third quarter grew 4% compared to the third quarter of '23 with a 5% growth in the auto cycle boosted by a greater share of ethanol over gasoline in the product mix and a 2% growth in diesel.

現在轉到下一張投影片，第 5 張。我們來談談伊皮蘭加的結果。與 2023 年第三季相比，第三季 Ipiranga 銷量成長了 4%，其中汽車銷量成長了 5%，這得益於產品組合中乙醇所佔份額高於汽油以及柴油成長了 2%。

We ended this quarter with a network of 5,871 service stations, five less than in June '24. We added 61 service stations and closed 66 throughout the quarter. This level of closures reflects stricter contract compliance.

本季結束時，我們的服務站網路共有 5,871 個，比 2024 年 6 月減少了 5 個。我們整個季度新增了 61 個加油站並關閉了 66 個。這種關閉程度反映了更嚴格的合約合規性。

I remind you that the number of stations is not the main driver of volume growth as observed in recent quarters. Furthermore, we ended the quarter with 1,478 AMPM stores with same-store sales growth of 7%.

我提醒您，正如最近幾季觀察到的那樣，車站數量並不是銷量成長的主要驅動力。此外，本季末我們擁有 1,478 家 AMPM 商店，同店銷售額成長 7%。

Ipiranga's SG&A was down 4% compared to the third quarter of '23 due to lower contingency expenses, offset by higher provisions for doubtful accounts and higher personnel expenses, mostly collective bargaining agreements. The other operating results line totaled negative BRL124 million in the quarter, an improvement of BRL55 million year over year, a result of lower expenses with carbon tax credits.

與 2023 年第三季相比，Ipiranga 的銷售及管理費用下降了 4%，原因是應急費用減少，但被呆帳撥備增加和人事費用（主要是集體談判協議）增加所抵消。本季其他營運業績總額為負 1.24 億雷亞爾，年增 5,500 萬雷亞爾，這是由於碳稅抵免帶來的費用減少。

The line of results from disposal of assets totaled BRL31 million, resulting from the sale of seven real estate assets. Ipiranga's EBITDA was BRL967 million in the quarter. The recurring EBITDA totaled BRL936 million, 34% lower year over year. We observed an improvement in the competitive environment in the third quarter compared to the second quarter of '24, with a reduction of sector irregularities.

出售七項房地產資產，資產處置收益總計 3,100 萬雷亞爾。Ipiranga 本季的 EBITDA 為 9.67 億雷亞爾。經常性 EBITDA 總計 9.36 億雷亞爾，年減 34%。我們觀察到，與 2024 年第二季相比，第三季的競爭環境有所改善，產業違規行為有所減少。

We also had inventory gains as a result of the gasoline price adjustment in July. And despite these effects, in the third quarter of '23, we had record margins at Ipiranga, benefiting from the combination of more relevant inventory gains and more favorable import parity and a normalized level of inventories in the industry.

由於7月份汽油價格調整，我們的庫存也有所增加。儘管存在這些影響，23 年第三季度，我們在 Ipiranga 的利潤率創歷史新高，這得益於更相關的庫存增長、更有利的進口平價以及行業庫存正常化水平的結合。

We have been operating in recent quarters with profitability above BRL130 per cubic meter, despite the regularities that have affected the entire sector. In this fourth quarter, with the market conditions we have observed, we expect to maintain the strength.

儘管規律性影響了整個產業，但我們最近幾季的營運獲利能力仍高於每立方公尺 130 巴西雷亞爾。在第四季度，根據我們觀察到的市場狀況，我們預計將保持強勢。

And moving now to slide 6 to discuss Ultragaz results. The volume of LPG sold in the third quarter was 4% higher year over year due to a 7% increase in sales of bulk LPG, mainly reflecting higher sales to industries. Sales of bottled LPG increased by 2%, driven by higher market demand.

現在轉到第 6 張投影片來討論 Ultragaz 的結果。第三季液化石油氣銷量年增 4%，原因是散裝液化石油氣銷量成長 7%，主要反映了工業銷售的增加。在市場需求增加的推動下，瓶裝液化石油氣銷量成長了 2%。

Ultragaz's SG&A in the third quarter of '24 was 1% higher than in the third quarter of '23 due to higher personnel expenses, mainly due to collective bargaining agreements, provisions for doubtful accounts and freight costs in line with higher sales volume.

Ultragaz 2024年第三季的SG&A比2023年第三季高出1%，原因是人員費用增加，這主要是由於集體談判協議、呆帳準備金和與銷量增加相一致的運費。

These effects were compensated by initiatives to increase operational efficiency and lower expenses with sales commissions. Ultragaz EBITDA was BRL448 million in the third quarter of '24, 1% lower than that in the third quarter of '23.

這些影響透過提高營運效率和降低銷售佣金費用的措施得到了補償。24 年第三季 Ultragaz EBITDA 為 4.48 億雷亞爾，比 23 年第三季下降 1%。

The higher sales volume and the more normalized commercial environment of the bottle segment, were offset by higher freight costs and expenses. For the fourth quarter, despite seasonally lower volumes, we expect a higher EBITDA with greater contribution from Ultragaz New Energy segment.

較高的銷售量和瓶子行業更規範的商業環境被較高的運輸成本和費用所抵消。對於第四季度，儘管銷售量季節性下降，但我們預計 EBITDA 會更高，其中 Ultragaz 新能源部門的貢獻更大。

And finally, moving to slide 7, let's discuss Ultracargo's good results. The company's average static capacity of 1,67,000 cubic meters was 1% higher than that of the third quarter of '23 due to the addition of the Rondonopolis base. The cubic meters sold remained stable year over year.

最後，轉到幻燈片 7，讓我們討論 Ultracargo 的良好結果。由於朗多諾波利斯基地的增加，該公司的平均靜態容量為 1,67,000 立方米，比 2023 年第三季高出 1%。銷售立方米同比保持穩定。

The start-up operations in Rondonopolis and the higher handling in Opla, Vila do Conde and Suape were offset by the lower spot sales at Santos, Itaqui and Aratu. Ultracargo's net revenues were BRL266 million in the third quarter of '24, 1% higher than in the third quarter of '23, driven by better tariffs despite lower spot sales.

Rondonopolis 的啟動業務以及 Opla、Vila do Conde 和 Suape 較高的處理量被 Santos、Itaqui 和 Aratu 較低的現貨銷售所抵消。Ultracargo 在 2024 年第三季的淨收入為 2.66 億雷亞爾，比 23 年第三季增長 1%，儘管現貨銷售較低，但由於關稅提高，該公司的淨收入增長了 1%。

Combined cost and expenses were 10% higher than that in the third quarter of '23 due to higher handling of the new terminals. Ultracargo's EBITDA totaled BRL168 million in the third quarter, 3% lower than in the third quarter of '23 mainly due to lower spot sales. The EBITDA margin was 63% in the third quarter of '24, 2 percentage points lower than that of the third quarter of '23.

由於新碼頭的處理量增加，綜合成本和費用比 2023 年第三季高出 10%。Ultracargo 第三季的 EBITDA 總計為 1.68 億雷亞爾，比 2023 年第三季下降 3%，主要是由於現貨銷售減少。24年第三季的EBITDA利潤率為63%，比23年第三季低2個百分點。

And for the fourth quarter, we expect an EBITDA similar to those seen in the last quarters. Very well. This concludes my presentation, and let's now move to the Q&A session to answer the questions you may have. Thank you very much for your attention.

對於第四季度，我們預計 EBITDA 與前幾季度相似。很好。我的演講到此結束，現在讓我們進入問答環節來回答大家可能有的問題。非常感謝您的關注。

(Operator Instructions) Monique Greco, Itau.

（操作員說明）Monique Greco，Itau。

I'm going to ask one first question about Ipiranga. Going back to what Pizzinatto has just said about expectations of margins. We got into the second half of the year with an expectation of have a much better competitive dynamic, healthier increasing demand, normalization of inventory.

我要問關於伊皮蘭加的第一個問題。回到皮齊納托剛才所說的關於利潤率的預期。進入下半年，我們期望競爭更加激烈，需求成長更加健康，庫存正常化。

Do you think that the improvement of the dynamic with volumes and so on has already been reflected in this adjustment of margins that you've made in this quarter. And when Pizzinatto, you said you want to have the levels over 130. Do you think that -- do you still expect an improvement of this dynamic in upcoming quarters?

您是否認為銷售等動態的改善已經反映在您本季所做的利潤調整中？當 Pizzinatto 時，您說您希望級別超過 130。您是否認為，您仍然期望在未來幾季這種動態有所改善？

Would we expect some improvement still being perceived in future margins? This is my first question. The second question combines Ipiranga and Ultracargo. What about import of diesel at the forefront. We've seen smaller representativeness of independent importers in the total imported amount in the country.

我們是否預期未來的利潤率仍會有所改善？這是我的第一個問題。第二個問題結合了 Ipiranga 和 Ultracargo。排在前列的柴油進口情況如何？我們發現獨立進口商在該國進口總額中的代表性較小。

So I'd like to hear from Linden -- how do you see the impact of that in the competitive dynamic of distribution? And if I could also ask Decio, do you think that small lower spot imports can impact Ultracargo's operation?

所以我想聽聽林登的意見—您如何看待這對分銷競爭動態的影響？如果我還可以問 Decio，您認為現貨進口量的小幅下降會影響 Ultracargo 的運作嗎？

This is Linden speaking. First, concerning the dynamic of the third quarter, this fight against illegal practices has improved oil and ethanol. We had a 5% increase of volume over the second quarter of this year, an improvement for regular gas and ethanol, but we've observed a competitive market for diesel on the highways and in spot market, the cost of diesel has been increasing, biodiesel and also imported diesel.

我是林登。首先，就第三季的動態而言，這場打擊非法行為的鬥爭改善了石油和乙醇。今年第二季我們的銷量增加了 5%，普通天然氣和乙醇有所改善，但我們觀察到高速公路和現貨市場上的柴油市場競爭激烈，柴油成本一直在增加，生物柴油和進口柴油。

It has applied pressure to the price at the stations, especially the highway stations had difficulty to adjust prices. So one thing offset the other, and this was somewhat what we observed in the third quarter. Now looking ahead, we believe that better legal practices will always be positive to the industry at large. And we hope that this is going to progress as is so that we can have better and better conditions.

對車站價格造成壓力，特別是高速公路車站調價困難。因此，一件事抵消了另一件事，這在某種程度上是我們在第三季觀察到的。現在展望未來，我們相信更好的法律實踐永遠會對整個行業產生積極的影響。我們希望這一切能夠照原樣進行，以便我們能夠擁有越來越好的條件。

We still see competitiveness in diesel, especially in the highways and in spot market. I think this is the kind of balance that we've been observed in terms of supply. The market seems to be well balanced. It was a stable quarter. If you look during the three months of the quarter, you will see somewhat stable margins.

我們仍然看到柴油的競爭力，特別是在高速公路和現貨市場。我認為這就是我們在供應方面觀察到的這種平衡。市場似乎很平衡。這是一個穩定的季度。如果你觀察本季的三個月，你會發現利潤率有些穩定。

There were no major oscillations or volatility. I think that this is something that's going to be repeated in the fourth quarter. Concerning imports, yes, there has been some decrease in imports, not significant really, just a minor drop.

沒有出現大的波動或波動。我認為這種情況將在第四季重演。關於進口，是的，進口有所減少，實際上並不顯著，只是小幅下降。

Changing this logic of product coming from the Gulf, from the East European countries. But the Brazilian market is structurally dependent on import. And this is going to keep happening. Maybe things will change somewhat in terms of where the gas comes from.

改變這種產品來自海灣、東歐國家的邏輯。但巴西市場在結構上依賴進口。這種情況將會繼續發生。也許氣體來源的問題會改變。

Delcio speaking now. Thank you, Monique. If you compare this quarter with the same quarter last year, you were going to see a smaller spot volume in this quarter, the inventory levels increased somewhat. Our tanks are fuller. At Ultracargo, the product comes in regards of being capotage or imported.

德爾西奧現在講話。謝謝你，莫妮克。如果將本季與去年同期進行比較，您會發現本季現貨量有所減少，庫存水準有所增加。我們的水箱已經滿了。在 Ultracargo，產品來自捕獲或進口。

We are very well positioned in Vila do Conde, Itaqui, Suape. The product has to come into the tanks because we need to sell in these regions. Even if there is a reduction of imports. Still, we are going to go into capotage and the market will just compensate.

我們在孔迪鎮 (Vila do Conde)、伊塔基 (Itaqui) 和蘇阿佩 (Suape) 的地理位置非常優越。產品必須進入儲罐，因為我們需要在這些地區銷售。即使進口減少。儘管如此，我們還是會陷入俘虜狀態，而市場只會補償。

We are still investing in improvement of structural deficit. And this is why we've been investing in spot handling. There are going to be major opportunities of import and product capotage.

我們仍在投資改善結構性赤字。這就是我們一直在現貨處理方面進行投資的原因。進口和產品捕獲將有重大機會。

Pedro Gama, Citi.

佩德羅·伽馬，花旗銀行。

The first question is about ultra-gas. We've been hearing the market discussing about natural gas and LPG on the one side. We see that the social programs are encouraging the use of LPG, but constantly discussing the margin of distribution of LPG in recent years.

第一個問題是關於超天然氣的。一方面，我們一直聽到市場對天然氣和液化石油氣的討論。我們看到社會計畫鼓勵使用液化石油氣，但近年來不斷討論液化石油氣的分配利潤。

What is your opinion about these social programs and the effects they have on the market? And how do you see LPG in competition with other products such as natural gas, ethanol and other energy sources in the country?

您對這些社會項目及其對市場的影響有何看法？您如何看待液化石油氣與該國天然氣、乙醇和其他能源等其他產品的競爭？

Second question about volumes in Ipiranga. Last month, the first station of Texaco was opened. What's the strategy for the brand in Brazil and how does it adjust with the whole strategy of Ipiranga in the country?

關於伊皮蘭加卷的第二個問題。上個月，德士古首站開通。該品牌在巴西的策略是什麼？ 它與 Ipiranga 在該國的整體策略有何調整？

This is Tabajara speaking. This is Tabajora speaking. I'm going to start with the question about Ultragaz. The program gas to all, liquefied gas to all is a social program of the current federal administration.

我是塔巴哈拉。我是塔巴霍拉。我將從有關 Ultragaz 的問題開始。「向所有人提供天然氣、向所有人提供液化天然氣」計畫是現任聯邦政府的一項社會計畫。

We've talked about the effect and impacting energy poverty rates. The government is really focusing on it and this is something positive. We are going to support as much as possible, but there's still a lot to happen before we know how the program is going to evolve.

我們已經討論了能源貧窮率的影響和影響。政府確實非常關注這個問題，這是正面的事情。我們將提供盡可能多的支持，但在我們知道該計劃將如何發展之前，還有很多事情要做。

It will probably analyze the possibility of resellers use so that the benefit brought by LPG to the society can reach 100% of households in the country, even though I have to say there is still a lot to be done. You've talked about competition in terms of energy sources.

大概會分析經銷商使用的可能性，讓LPG為社會帶來的好處能夠到達全國100%的家庭，儘管我不得不說還有很多工作要做。您談到了能源方面的競爭。

We can see more room now for applications of LPG. There are some limitations of LPG use in some specific applications. we expect the regulatory progress to really release and approve that. Especially in bulk, we've been seeing other uses and applications for LPG.

現在我們可以看到LPG有更大的應用空間。在某些特定應用中液化石油氣的使用存在一些限制。我們預計監管進展將真正釋放並批准這一點。特別是在散裝方面，我們已經看到液化石油氣的其他用途和應用。

And we are also getting ready for the use of other energy sources that the company has in its portfolio, so that we can really have a complete, let's say, reach of options. For LPG, we still see a very relevant opportunity of growth. So I think those are two potential positive elements for the industry.

我們也準備好使用該公司產品組合中的其他能源，這樣我們就可以真正擁有完整的選擇範圍。對於液化石油氣，我們仍然看到非常相關的成長機會。所以我認為這是該行業的兩個潛在積極因素。

Now Pedro, concerning volumes in Ipiranga, the growth of volume in the second to third quarter of Ipiranga has nothing to do with Texaco. We just opened one gas station, one service station on the fourth quarter. It's much more market thing. And our actions in our own network.

現在，佩德羅談到伊皮蘭加的銷量，伊皮蘭加第二至第三季的銷售成長與德士古無關。我們第四季剛開設了一個加油站、一個服務站。這更多是市場的事。以及我們在自己的網路中的行為。

Now concerning the brand Texaco, what we've been doing here with the brand is introduce a different model of business in the country. We are going to have a strategy of regional exclusivity and they will have an exclusivity of the brand in a region that is going to be defined among the parties, and it's going to be a lighter model in terms of investments.

現在，關於德士古（Texaco）品牌，我們一直在該品牌上所做的就是在該國引入不同的商業模式。我們將製定區域獨家經營策略，他們將在各方共同確定的地區擁有品牌的獨家經營權，並且在投資方面這將是一個更輕鬆的模式。

We don't have any specific guidelines in terms of product from them exactly because we are in a process of reproducing, understanding the model. We have a very good route to follow with Teseco.

我們在產品方面沒有任何具體的指導方針，因為我們正處於複製、理解模型的過程中。我們與 Teseco 有一條非常好的路線可以遵循。

What you see volume is from Ipiranga, and it's going to be more focused on Ipiranga, which is our main sales outlet than Texaco.

你看到的銷量來自 Ipiranga，而且會更專注於 Ipiranga，這是我們的主要銷售管道，而不是德士古。

My question was really to understand your strategy. So that's very clear.

我的問題實際上是了解你的策略。所以這非常清楚。

Matheus Enfeldt, UBS.

馬修斯恩菲爾德，瑞銀集團。

Kudos to the result. CapEx, it's been running below what we had expected and what had been announced in the beginning of the year in all your business units. I would like to understand why -- understand in further details to what extent this is going to impact 2025?

對結果表示讚賞。資本支出一直低於我們的預期以及你們所有業務部門在年初宣布的情況。我想了解為什麼——更詳細地了解這將在多大程度上影響 2025 年？

Is there a gain of efficiency projects that you haven't done because of higher interest rate, change in assumptions. Just to understand a bit more because CapEx underperformed -- has been underperforming, knowing that it tends to be sped up in the fourth quarter.

是否有因利率上升、假設變動而未完成的效率提升專案？只是為了了解更多一點，因為資本支出表現不佳 - 一直表現不佳，知道它在第四季度往往會加速。

Now building up on the previous question about Ultragaz, what about the other proposals of regulatory adjustment, use of other brands, the end of support, no users. Could we maybe tell us more about the regulatory adjustments provided by the Brazilian agency of Oil and Gas A&P?

現在，在先前有關 Ultragaz 的問題的基礎上，監管調整、使用其他品牌、終止支援、沒有用戶等其他建議又如何呢？我們能否告訴我們更多有關巴西石油和天然氣 A&P 機構提供的監管調整的資訊？

Thank you, Matheus, for your question. The plan that we shared for 2024 of CapEx was not linear. We tend to accumulate it in the end of the year. And we expect to close it below what was initially planned because of some savings in our projects and because of some carryover to 2025.

謝謝馬修斯的提問。我們分享的 2024 年資本支出計畫並不是線性的。我們傾向於在年底累積它。由於我們的專案節省了一些費用，並且有一些結轉至 2025 年，我們預計會以低於最初計劃的價格結束。

Let me now hand it over to Tabajara.

現在讓我把它交給塔巴哈拉。

You see Matheus building up about -- your questions about regulatory affairs. It's all part of one same package, and the natural progression of regulation, we've already discussed about that in the past. And we've always taken a very active role. We know a lot about the topic.

你會看到馬修斯正在討論你關於監管事務的問題。這都是同一個方案的一部分，也是監管的自然進展，我們過去已經討論過這一點。我們一直扮演著非常積極的角色。我們對這個主題了解很多。

We see the international reference, and we tend to be highly regulated. It provides more safety, more competition. In such a large country, there is no fraud or illegal practice in products, which is a result of the operational security that agents have and clients have.

我們看到國際參考，我們往往受到嚴格監管。它提供了更多的安全性、更多的競爭。在這麼大的國家，產品不存在詐欺或非法行為，這是代理商和客戶擁有營運安全的結果。

So it's a very positive thing, high security and a highly competitive market. The models that have economic rationale can always be analyzed, but it should always take to the economic improvement of the system, making sure that we still maintain the same level of security of inspection without opening room for illegal practices because, of course, it always impacts safety and security and nobody wants that.

所以這是一件非常積極的事情，高安全性和高度競爭的市場。具有經濟合理性的模型總是可以進行分析，但它應該始終注重系統的經濟改進，確保我們仍然保持相同的檢查安全水平，而不為非法行為留下空間，因為當然，它總是影響安全和安保，沒有人願意這樣。

So I think that the security practices that we have are always very positive. This is what should prevail. I think this is the most, let's say, appropriate solution for the society at large.

所以我認為我們的安全實踐一直都是非常積極的。這是應該佔上風的。我認為這是對整個社會來說最合適的解決方案。

Pedro Soares, BTG.

佩德羅·蘇亞雷斯，BTG。

I have two questions. First, about working capital. There was quite a use of working capital. I would like to hear more about your expectations for the fourth quarter and also inventory levels. Can you tell us more about the dynamic of the quarter? Maybe there were some strategic actions.

我有兩個問題。首先，關於營運資金。營運資金的使用相當多。我想更多地了解您對第四季度的預期以及庫存水平。您能告訴我們更多有關本季動態的資訊嗎？也許有一些戰略行動。

But was there anything else that resulted from the ethanol competitiveness in auto cycle, just giving more pressure to oil, gas, is it something temporary? Should we expect more over demand for next quarters. And one other question about margins at Ipiranga.

但是，乙醇在汽車循環中的競爭力是否也導致了其他任何結果，只是給石油、天然氣帶來了更大的壓力，這是暫時的嗎？我們是否應該預期下幾季的需求會更多？還有一個關於 Ipiranga 利潤率的問題。

The level of [130] seems to be conservative, not only because of the results you've reached, but also because it's below what we observed in the first half of the year. Do you think that this is a level that maintains expected return on investments being healthy levels and also allowing some market share gains? Or no, are you just being conservative as a management team?

[130] 的水平似乎是保守的，不僅因為您所達到的結果，還因為它低於我們在今年上半年觀察到的水平。您認為這個水平是否可以維持預期投資報酬率的健康水平，並允許獲得一些市場份額？或者不是，您只是作為管理團隊保守嗎？

Pedro, I'm going to answering about Ipiranga, Linden speaking, and then Rodrigo can build up on it. Concerning turnover, I think there are four components involving Ipiranga and the working capital.

佩德羅，我要回答有關伊皮蘭加的問題，林登發言，然後羅德里戈可以在此基礎上繼續。關於營業額，我認為有四個組成部分，涉及伊皮蘭加和營運資金。

First, increasing volume, 5% increase in volumes; secondly, highest price of gas -- of gasoline and a strategy of anticipation of the buying of biofuel. We've seen an opportunity.

一是增加成交量，成交量增加5%；其次，天然氣的最高價格以及預期購買生質燃料的策略。我們看到了機會。

And fourth option is a reduction of (inaudible) that we had throughout the year half. Having a position in biofuel as well as the program confirming are just circumstantial situation and that will be offset in the fourth quarter.

第四個選擇是減少（聽不清楚）我們整個上半年的支出。在生物燃料領域佔據一席之地以及計劃的確認只是偶然情況，這將在第四季度得到抵消。

Concerning margins, yes, we tend to be more conservative we always say that we see margins over 150 per cubic meter, but we have been more conservative for this quarter and trying to understand the market demand. And it's not a share strategy. Let us make it very clear, not a shared strategy.

關於利潤率，是的，我們傾向於更加保守，我們總是說我們看到利潤率超過每立方米 150，但我們在本季度更加保守，並試圖了解市場需求。這不是一個共享策略。讓我們說得很清楚，而不是共同的策略。

Eduardo Muniz, Santander.

愛德華多·穆尼茲，桑坦德銀行。

The first question is about the initiatives against illegal practices in the area of distribution. We've seen the focus of many of the players in the ecosystem. It's something getting stronger, and we've seen that some of the special regimens were just put to an end. What do you also expect to reach this year and the first quarter next year, what else do you expect to be approved to improve competitive market?

第一個問題是關於打擊分銷領域非法行為的舉措。我們已經看到了生態系統中許多參與者的關注點。它變得越來越強大，我們已經看到一些特殊的治療方案剛剛結束。您還期望今年和明年第一季能夠達到什麼目標，您還希望獲得哪些批准來改善市場競爭？

And secondly, concerning Hidrovias do Brasil, what are the main points that Ultrapar wants to contribute with Hidrovias do Brasil to really double the initiative of Arco Norte with the private use terminal? Is it something that you can lend to them as Ultracargo? What are the other options that you could get, given some more information to us?

其次，關於 Hidrovias do Brasil，Ultrapar 希望與 Hidrovias do Brasil 共同貢獻哪些要點，以真正使 Arco Norte 的私人使用終端主動性加倍？您可以以 Ultracargo 的名義借給他們嗎？如果向我們提供更多信息，您可以獲得哪些其他選擇？

Well, Eduardo, yes, there is an improvement. I think there is still a lot to be done in terms of fighting against the legal practices. We've seen that things can really get better if we have appropriate fight against illegal practices. When you talk about tax evasion, we have to work with ethanol and monophagia.

嗯，Eduardo，是的，有進步。我認為在打擊法律實務方面還有很多工作要做。我們已經看到，如果我們適當打擊非法行為，情況確實會變得更好。當你談論逃稅時，我們必須與乙醇和單一吞噬者合作。

Ethanol is still a relevant problem with regular trading. There is also a law that would impose sanctions to those longtime debtors. There is also the [Renova Bio] with another legislation. There is a very important share of distributors that do not meet the goals of the RBOs.

乙醇仍然是常規交易中的一個相關問題。還有一項法律將對這些長期債務人實施制裁。還有另一種立法的[Renova Bio]。有很大一部分經銷商沒有達到 RBO 的目標。

It really impacts producers and manufacturers because they could be investing in the production of biofuel and they are not. And finally, we expect to have a better control over not mixing biodiesel. For example, right now, where biodiesel costs more than BRL7 per liter, a great difference to (inaudible)

這確實影響了生產商和製造商，因為他們可能正在投資生物燃料的生產，但他們沒有。最後，我們希望能夠更好地控制不混合生物柴油。例如，目前生物柴油的價格超過每公升 7 巴西雷亞爾，這與（聽不清楚）

And these are situations in which some mix may happen. So these are all open fronts of initiatives. I cannot tell you whether this is going to happen in this quarter, next quarter or when exactly, but we've been having very interesting discussions led by a number of companies and always supported by the regulatory authorities as well.

在這些情況下，可能會發生一些混合。所以這些都是開放的措施。我無法告訴你這是否會在本季度、下季度或具體時間發生，但我們一直在由許多公司領導進行非常有趣的討論，並且始終得到監管機構的支持。

We have to evolve in this agenda. It's still a problem in our industry. In terms of Hydrovias do Brasil, we are part of the Board, and we believe the company is capable of running projects with quality. Ultracargo is developing four terminals simultaneously. It has a very good active track record.

我們必須在這項議程上不斷發展。這仍然是我們行業的一個問題。就 Hydrovias do Brasil 而言，我們是董事會的一部分，我們相信該公司有能力高品質地經營專案。Ultracargo 正在同時開發四個碼頭。它擁有非常良好的活躍記錄。

And of course, it's a company that will provide support if considered to be necessary by Hydrovias. But right now, we are thinking about long term, giving a support to the company in existing projects, which were still waiting for approval by shareholders to execute. So we are very optimistic about the possibilities of expanding their installed capacity of the North area, Arco Norte.

當然，如果 Hydrovias 認為有必要，該公司也會提供支援。但目前，我們正在考慮長期發展，為公司現有專案提供支持，這些專案仍在等待股東批准執行。因此，我們對擴大北部地區Arco Norte裝置容量的可能性感到非常樂觀。

In addition to what Marcos Lutz has just said, Hydrovias has a very good team dedicated to this topic, but we are also contributing with some people that were transferred to Hydrovias to be part of the initiative. Our project manager is someone highly experienced in conducting project -- complex projects.

除了 Marcos Lutz 剛才所說的之外，Hydrovias 擁有一支非常優秀的團隊致力於此主題，但我們也與一些調到 Hydrovias 的人員一起參與該計劃。我們的專案經理在執行複雜專案方面經驗豐富。

And certainly, it's someone who's going to help in these initiatives. Now combining our questions about illegal practices and just to give you some dimension about that. If Ipiranga does not mix biodiesel in November and December alone, Ipiranga will be additional EBITDA of BRL1 billion because of the difference of prices of biodiesel and diesel.

當然，有人會為這些措施提供幫助。現在結合我們關於非法行為的問題，只是為了給您一些關於這個問題的維度。如果Ipiranga只在11月和12月不混合生質柴油，由於生質柴油和柴油的價格差異，Ipiranga將額外獲得10億雷亞爾的EBITDA。

This is how much illegal practice affect the industry. And this is why we have to fight against that so that we can have fair competition.

這就是非法行為對產業的影響程度。這就是為什麼我們必須與之抗爭，以便我們能夠進行公平競爭。

If I can have a follow-up for Hydrovias, any expectations of approving some excess capital with Hydrovias?

如果我可以對 Hydrovias 進行後續跟進，是否期望透過 Hydrovias 批准一些超額資本？

No news so far.

到目前為止還沒有消息。

Leonardo Marcondes, Bank of America.

萊昂納多·馬孔德斯，美國銀行。

Most of them have been answered. I'm going to ask one about Ultragaz. Pizzinatto has just mentioned that you expect an increased share of -- coming from new energy sources. Could you please give us some more information about that, the dynamics of this new segment? And could you please tell us how much that contribution of that share would be?

其中大部分已得到答案。我要問一個關於 Ultragaz 的問題。皮齊納托剛剛提到，您預計來自新能源的份額將會增加。您能否向我們提供更多有關此新細分市場動態的資訊？您能否告訴我們該份額的貢獻是多少？

Well Leonardo, based on what Rodrigo has said, when we started -- this is a combination of our strategy. We've had a very good evolution of our strategies in the long term, closer to our customers, in all the different segments that we operate, such as bulk.

好吧，萊昂納多，根據羅德里戈所說，當我們開始時，這是我們策略的組合。從長遠來看，我們的策略得到了很好的發展，在我們經營的所有不同領域（例如散裝業務）中，我們的策略更加貼近客戶。

They have evolved a lot and they are probably going to evolve more in the fourth quarter. That's what we expect. We can see the maturity of the investments we've made in other energy sources, biomethane and electricity. We've already talked about our expectations of 3% to 5% of EBITDA being resulting from that.

他們已經發展了很多，並且可能會在第四季度取得更大的發展。這就是我們所期望的。我們可以看到我們在其他能源、生物甲烷和電力方面的投資已經成熟。我們已經討論過由此產生的 EBITDA 3% 至 5% 的預期。

But they are not segregated operation. We've been really combining businesses to add more value to our clients. This is something that is becoming a reality and really impacting our results.

但它們並不是分開運作的。我們一直在真正整合業務，為我們的客戶增加更多價值。這正在成為現實，並真正影響我們的結果。

This is probably going to be intensified in upcoming quarters. We have been offering a broader perspective and a broader range of products. So we expect that improvement in the fourth quarter and in upcoming quarters next year.

在接下來的幾個季度中，這種情況可能會加劇。我們一直在提供更廣闊的視角和更廣泛的產品。因此，我們預計第四季和明年接下來的幾個季度會有所改善。

Bruno Montanari, Morgan Stanley.

布魯諾蒙塔納裡，摩根士丹利。

Just a quick follow-up and one question. Going back to working capital, should we wait? Should we expect more working capital released in the fourth quarter? Is it going to be expressive because of the investments you've made in previous quarters.

只是快速跟進和一個問題。回到營運資金，我們該等待嗎？我們是否應該期待第四季度釋放更多的營運資金？由於您在前幾個季度所做的投資，它是否會具有表現力？

And let me ask a question to you, Lutz. How do you anticipate the development in Brazil, thinking about economy, politics, US election when making decisions about investments in existing businesses, and also in new initiatives that you might have.

讓我問你一個問題，盧茲。在做出現有企業投資以及可能採取的新措施的投資決策時，您如何預測巴西的發展，考慮經濟、政治、美國大選。

Let me quickly answer about the working capital, and then Lutz can answer the question. Yes, it would probably be a recovery of working capital. Working capital movements are always significant up or down. We expect to regain a lot of what we've invested in the other quarters.

我先快速回答一下營運資金的問題，然後路茲就可以回答這個問題了。是的，這可能是營運資金的回收。營運資金變動總是大幅上升或下降。我們預計將收回在其他季度的大量投資。

Now, Lutz speaking. I don't expect any radical changes in the country, anything that would be relevant to Ultrapar's businesses. In terms of investments, we've made investments in Hydrovias, which is still going to go through a maturation. There are a number of upsides a company with a great future.

現在，由盧茲發言。我預計該國不會發生任何與 Ultrapar 業務相關的根本性變化。在投資方面，我們對Hydrovias進行了投資，該公司仍將經歷成熟期。一家擁有美好未來的公司有很多優勢。

All the other three traditional business that we have, have expansion projects. We've been allocating capital to them. We are still maintaining our position, which has deleveraged and always observing closely the economy. The US election, well, I don't anticipate any impact on our strategy, at least for now.

我們擁有的所有其他三個傳統業務都有擴張項目。我們一直在分配資金給他們。我們仍然維持去槓桿的立場，始終密切關注經濟。美國大選，我預計不會對我們的策略產生任何影響，至少目前是這樣。

Helena Kelm, XP.

海倫娜·凱爾姆，XP。

I have a quick question here. About your strategy of service stations, we've seen a movement but I would like to get your update on what do you expect to develop further the strategy of the network of service stations and the number of stations?

我在這裡有一個簡單的問題。關於你們的加油站策略，我們已經看到了一些變化，但我想了解一下你們對進一步製定加油站網路策略和加油站數量有何期望的最新資訊？

Nothing is changing really compared to what we've been doing with the branded network. We make investments selectively, and we have a natural attrition of this kind of business. The main initiative of closing down some of the units is over, if you get the official numbers of A and B of self-stated number of stations, you will see that they are very close.

與我們在品牌網路上所做的事情相比，沒有什麼真正改變。我們有選擇性地進行投資，這種業務有自然損耗。關閉部分單位的主要舉措已經結束，如果你拿到A和B的官方自稱站數，你會發現它們非常接近。

This is a sign of the accuracy of number of stations that we report. And from now on, business as usual, make select investments and exclude or close stations that wouldn't make sense to be maintained.

這是我們報告的站點數量準確性的標誌。從現在開始，一切照舊，進行選擇性投資，排除或關閉那些沒有維護意義的車站。

Thank you. If there are no further questions, I would like to hand it over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto for his closing remarks. Mr. Pizzinatto you have the floor.

謝謝。如果沒有其他問題，我想請羅德里戈·皮齊納托先生作總結發言。Pizzinatto 先生請發言。

Thank you all very much for the questions. Any unanswered questions can be answered by the Investor Relations team, and I hope to see you in our next earnings release conference call. Thank you all very much.

非常感謝大家提出的問題。任何未解答的問題都可以由投資者關係團隊來回答，我希望在我們的下一次收益發布電話會議上見到您。非常感謝大家。

Thank you. The earnings release conference call of Ultra is closed now. Please disconnect now. Thank you very much. Have a great day.

謝謝。Ultra 的財報發布電話會議現已結束。請立即斷開連線。非常感謝。祝你有美好的一天。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本筆錄中的英語陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。