Ultrapar Participacoes SA (UGP) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. Thank you for waiting. Welcome to the earnings release call of Ultrapar to present the results referring to the third quarter '25.

早安.感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Ultrapar 2025 年第三季業績發布電話會議。

Our presentation will be conducted by Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, CEO of Ultrapar; and by Alexandre Palhares, CFO of Ultrapar. The Q&A session that will follow will also have Mr. Leonardo Linden, CEO of Ipranga; Mr. Tabajara Bertelli, CEO of Ultragaz; and Mr. Fulvius Tomelin CEO of Ultracargo.

我們的演講將由 Ultrapar 執行長 Rodrigo Pizzinatto 先生主持；作者：Ultrapar 財務長 Alexandre Palhares。接下來的問答環節還將有 Ipranga 執行長 Leonardo Linden 先生、Ultragaz 執行長 Tabajara Bertelli 先生和 Ultracargo 執行長 Fulvius Tomelin 先生參加。

This call is being recorded and will be accessed later through the website, ri.ultra.com.br. After the initial presentation, we are going to start the Q&A session where further instructions will be provided. I would also like to tell you that the conference is being conducted in Portuguese and there is an option for simultaneous translation by clicking interpretation. For those listening to the earnings release call in English, there is the option of muting original volume. The presentation will be shown in Portuguese and there is a version in English to be downloaded through the company's website and through the chat.

本次通話正在錄音，稍後可透過網站ri.ultra.com.br存取。在初步介紹結束後，我們將開始問答環節，屆時將提供進一步的說明。我還想告訴大家，本次會議以葡萄牙語進行，點擊「口譯」按鈕即可選擇同聲傳譯。對於收聽英語財報電話會議的人來說，可以選擇將原音量靜音。本次演示將以葡萄牙語進行，英文版本可透過公司網站和聊天工具下載。

Before proceeding, we would like to mention that forward-looking statements made during this call refer to business effective of Ultrapar. and operating and financial goals are based on beliefs and assumptions of the company management and on information currently available. Forward-looking statements are no guarantee of performance. They involve risks and uncertainties because they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors can also cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

在繼續之前，我們想說明，本次電話會議中作出的前瞻性陳述指的是Ultrapar的業務，其營運和財務目標均基於公司管理層的信念和假設以及目前可獲得的資訊。前瞻性陳述並不構成對業績的保證。它們涉及風險和不確定性，因為它們指的是未來的事件，因此取決於可能發生也可能不會發生的情況。投資人應了解，總體經濟狀況、產業狀況和其他經營因素也可能導致實際結果與此類前瞻性聲明中表達的結果有重大差異。

I would like now to hand the conference over to Mr. Rodrigo Pizzinatto, who will start with the presentation. Mr. Pizzinatto, you have the floor.

現在我將把會議交給羅德里戈·皮齊納托先生，他將首先進行演講。皮齊納托先生，請您發言。

During this quarter, we recognized BRL238 million in extraordinary tax credits at Ipiranga. Resulting from the remaining portion of historical ICMS tax credits included in the [PEACE] calculation basis. Furthermore, we made significant progress in the fight against illegal practices in the fuel sector. We have been following with optimism that were carried out by the authorities in recent months, especially in the Carbono Oculto operation at the end of August.

本季度，我們在 Ipiranga 確認了 2.38 億雷亞爾的特殊稅收抵免。由此產生的是 [PEACE] 計算基礎中包含的剩餘歷史 ICMS 稅收抵免部分。此外，我們在打擊燃料產業的非法行為方面取得了重大進展。我們一直對當局近幾個月來採取的行動抱持樂觀態度，尤其是在 8 月底的 Carbono Oculto 行動中。

It represents a historic milestone in this fight, reinforcing the need for stricter legislation to fight crime and the legalities in the sector. We continue to support authorities and regulatory bodies in fighting crime, strengthening market integrity and ensuring fair competition.

這代表著這場鬥爭中的一個歷史性里程碑，強調了製定更嚴格的法律來打擊犯罪和規範該領域的法律的必要性。我們將繼續支持有關當局和監管機構打擊犯罪、加強市場誠信和確保公平競爭。

Another highlight of the quarter was the rapid reduction in leverage after assuming control of Hidrovias and starting to consolidate its results in the second quarter. Leverage stood at 1.9 times. With the strong cash generation in this quarter and Ultrapar's EBITDA growth, we reduced leverage to 1.7 times, even after paying BRL326 million in dividends in August.

本季另一個亮點是，在接手 Hidrovias 並開始在第二季整合其業績後，槓桿率迅速下降。槓桿率為 1.9 倍。由於本季強勁的現金流和 Ultrapar 的 EBITDA 成長，即使在 8 月支付了 3.26 億雷亞爾的股息之後，我們的槓桿率也降至 1.7 倍。

We also continue to advance our growth and strategic positioning agenda. In October, we completed the expansion of the Ultracargo terminal in Santos, adding 34,000 cubic meters of storage capacity. On November 1, we completed the sale of Hidrovias Cabotage operation for BRL750 million which will enable Hidrovias to focus on more synergistic and complementary businesses, while strengthening its financial position.

我們將繼續推進成長和策略定位計劃。10 月，我們完成了桑托斯 Ultracargo 碼頭的擴建，增加了 34,000 立方公尺的儲存容量。11 月 1 日，我們以 7.5 億雷亞爾的價格完成了 Hidrovias Cabotage 業務的出售，這將使 Hidrovias 能夠專注於更具協同效應和互補性的業務，同時增強其財務狀況。

We announced the signing of an agreement to acquire a 37.5% stake in Virtu which operates in the LNG logistics for BRL102 million. This transaction is aligned with our strategy to invest in sectors where Ultrapar can contribute to value creation with high growth and profitability potential.

我們宣布簽署協議，以 1.02 億雷亞爾的價格收購 Virtu 公司 37.5% 的股份，該公司從事液化天然氣物流業務。此次交易符合我們的策略，即投資於 Ultrapar 能夠創造價值且具有高成長和獲利潛力的產業。

We also received [CADE's] approval for the LPG terminal in Pecém for Ultragaz in partnership with Supergasbras. This project reinforces our commitment to safety and efficiency in LPG supply in the North East and North regions of Brazil. Finally, for those who were unable to attend on today 2 2025 held in September for the first time at Ultrapar's headquarters, please note that the presentation is available on our Investor Relations website.

我們也獲得了[CADE]的批准，Ultragaz與Supergasbras合作在Pecém建設液化石油氣碼頭。此專案強化了我們對巴西東北部和北部地區液化石油氣供應安全高效的承諾。最後，對於那些未能參加今天（2025 年 9 月）在 Ultrapar 總部首次舉行的會議的人士，請注意，演示文稿已發佈在我們的投資者關係網站上。

I will now turn the call over to our CFO, who will walk you through the quarterly results. Thank you.

現在我將把電話轉交給我們的財務官，他將為大家介紹季度業績。謝謝。

Thank you, Rodrigo. Good morning, everyone. Before starting, I would like to remind you of the reporting criteria and standards used in this presentation.

謝謝你，羅德里戈。各位早安。在開始之前，我想提醒各位注意本次演示中使用的報告標準和準則。

Now let's move on to the results. Ultrapar's adjusted EBITDA was BRL1.9 billion, including the recognition of BRL185 million in extraordinary tax credits at Ipiranga representing a 27% increase year-over-year. Recurring adjusted EBITDA totaled BRL1.8 billion, an 18% increase compared to the third quarter of last year driven by Hidrovia's record performance.

現在我們來看結果。Ultrapar 的調整後 EBITDA 為 19 億雷亞爾，其中包括在 Ipiranga 確認的 1.85 億雷亞爾的特殊稅收抵免，同比增長 27%。經常性調整 EBITDA 總計 18 億雷亞爾，比去年第三季成長 18%，這主要得益於 Hidrovia 創紀錄的業績。

Ultragaz also reported higher EBITDA, which together with Hidrovias, partially offset the lower results from Ipiranga and Ultracargo. Net income for the quarter reached BRL772 million, an 11% increase year-over-year, mainly driven by the higher operating results and the recognition of tax credits already mentioned which were offset by higher financial expenses and higher depreciation and amortization, mainly due to the consolidation of Hidrovias.

Ultragaz 的 EBITDA 也較高，加上 Hidrovias 的業績，部分抵消了 Ipiranga 和 Ultracargo 業績的下滑。本季淨利潤達到 7.72 億雷亞爾，年增 11%，主要得益於更高的經營業績和前面提到的稅收抵免，但被更高的財務費用和更高的折舊攤銷所抵消，這主要是由於 Hidrovias 的合併。

CapEx totaled BRL756 million, 46% higher compared to the same period last year, highlighting the consolidation of investments in droves and increased investments in Ipiranga, especially for the expansion and maintenance of the [service] station and franchise network in addition to investments in the evolution of the technological platform with the replacement of the ERP system.

資本支出總額為 7.56 億雷亞爾，比去年同期增長 46%，這凸顯了大量投資的整合以及對 Ipiranga 的投資增加，特別是用於擴大和維護 [服務] 站和特許經營網絡，以及通過更換 ERP 系統來升級技術平台的投資。

Operating cash generation was BRL2.1 billion, almost 3 times the cash generated in the same period last year, even with BRL258 million for the settlement of the draft discount. This reflects a better operating result, the consolidation of Hidrovias and lower working capital investment at Ipiranga and Ultragaz.

即使扣除 2.58 億雷亞爾用於結算匯票折扣，經營現金流仍達到 21 億雷亞爾，幾乎是去年同期現金流的 3 倍。這反映了更好的經營績效、Hidrovias 的合併以及 Ipiranga 和 Ultragaz 的營運資本投資減少。

And now moving to the next slide. We ended the quarter with BRL12 billion in net debt and a leverage of 1.7 times compared to 1.9 times last quarter. This improvement reflects the strong cash generation during the period, which more than offset the payment of BRL326 million in dividends in August in addition to the impact of BRL258 million from the settlement of the draft discount, as I mentioned earlier.

現在進入下一張投影片。本季末，我們的淨負債為 120 億雷亞爾，槓桿率為 1.7 倍，而上一季為 1.9 倍。這項改善反映了該期間強勁的現金流，這不僅抵消了 8 月支付的 3.26 億雷亞爾股息，還抵消了先前提到的因結算匯票折價而產生的 2.58 億雷亞爾的影響。

Now moving to Ipiranga's results. the volumes sold in the third quarter was 1% higher compared to last year due to the increase in the auto cycle, mainly in gasoline. It is worth noting that we observed the market recovery following the Carbon Oculto operation, which has been tacdkling irregular companies in this sector with an acceleration in sales volume in September. We ended the period with 5,812 substations. We added 70 new substations and closed 84 to our network throughout the quarter.

現在來看Ipiranga的業績。由於汽車銷量成長，尤其是汽油銷量成長，第三季銷量比去年同期成長了1%。值得注意的是，我們觀察到在 Carbon Oculto 行動之後市場出現復甦，該行動打擊了該行業的違規公司，並在 9 月加速了銷售量的成長。該期末我們共有5812個變電所。本季度，我們向電網新增了 70 個變電站，並關閉了 84 個變電站。

Ipiranga's EBITDA totaled BRL1.85 billion, 12% higher than the same period last year, reflecting the recognition of extraordinary tax credits of BRL185 million. Recurring EBITDA totaled BRL892 million in the quarter, a 5% lower compared to the third quarter of 2024. This result reflects a more challenging scenario given the irregularities in the sector, mainly due to the high level of naphtha imports for irregular sale as gasoline and inventory gains in the third quarter of 2024. These effects were partially offset by higher sales volume and lower expenses during the period with lower allowance for expected credit losses, marketing and personnel expenses due to a smaller head count.

Ipiranga 的 EBITDA 總額為 18.5 億雷亞爾，比去年同期增加 12%，這反映了確認了 1.85 億雷亞爾的特殊稅收抵免。本季經常性 EBITDA 總計 8.92 億雷亞爾，較 2024 年第三季下降 5%。鑑於該行業的不規則性，這一結果反映了更具挑戰性的局面，主要是由於大量石腦油進口用於不規則地作為汽油銷售以及 2024 年第三季的庫存增加。由於員工人數減少，信貸損失準備金、行銷和人事費用預計降低，導致銷售額增加，部分抵消了上述影響。

As a highlight, we also had cash generation reaching BRL1.453 billion, more than twice the BRL723 million in the third quarter of 2024. This performance reflects working capital management, strengthening value creation for Ipiranga. For the fourth quarter, we expect a continued market recovery with volume growth and profitability similar to that observed in the third quarter.

值得一提的是，我們的現金流也達到了 14.53 億雷亞爾，是 2024 年第三季 7.23 億雷亞爾的兩倍多。這項績效體現了對營運資金的管理，增強了Ipiranga的價值創造。我們預計第四季市場將繼續復甦，銷售成長和獲利能力將與第三季類似。

Now moving to Ultragaz. The volume of LPG sold in the third quarter was 6% lower than the same period in 2024 with a 3% decrease in the bottled segment and an 11% decrease in the bulk segment, reflecting the competitive dynamics of the market, which continued to be impacted by the pass-through of increased cost of Petrobras actions. Furthermore, we are seeing signs of an economic slowdown with lower demand in the volumes sold to industries.

現在轉到 Ultragaz。第三季液化石油氣銷量比 2024 年同期下降了 6%，其中瓶裝液化石油氣銷量下降了 3%，散裝液化石油氣銷量下降了 11%，這反映了市場的競爭動態，而市場繼續受到巴西石油公司行動成本增加的影響。此外，我們看到經濟放緩的跡象，對各行業的需求量有所下降。

Recurring adjusted EBITDA totaled BRL463 million a 3% increase compared to the same period in 2024, mainly due to pass-through of inflation and the positive contribution from new energies despite lower LPG sales volumes. The fourth quarter is seasonally weaker. We see a gradual recovery in volume and bulk segment is below last year's levels. We also expect EBITDA to be higher than that observed in the third quarter.

經常性調整 EBITDA 總計 4.63 億雷亞爾，比 2024 年同期增長 3%，主要原因是通貨膨脹的傳導以及新能源的積極貢獻，儘管液化石油氣銷量有所下降。第四季通常是淡季。我們看到銷量正在逐步恢復，但散裝貨物市場仍低於去年同期水準。我們也預期 EBITDA 將高於第三季的水平。

Now moving to Ultracargo. The average installed capacity reached 1,097,000 cubic meters in the quarter, a 3% year-over-year increase, resulting from the addition of 23,000 cubic meters of capacity in Palmeirante and 7,000 cubic meters in Rondonópolis. The cubic meters sold was 12% lower year-over-year, totaling 3,845,000 cubic meters. This decrease reflects the lower demand from our customers for tanking services related to fuel imports, which resulted in lower handling in Santos, Itaqui and [Swap].

現在遷移到 Ultracargo。本季平均裝置容量達到 1,097,000 立方米，年增 3%，這得益於 Palmeirante 新增 23,000 立方米容量和 Rondonópolis 新增 7,000 立方米容量。銷量較去年同期下降 12%，總計 3,845,000 立方公尺。這一降幅反映了客戶對與燃料進口相關的儲罐服務的需求下降，導致桑托斯、伊塔基等地的處理量減少。[交換]。

This impact is partially offset by the higher volume of handling in [OPLA]. As a result, net revenue totaled BRL243 million in the quarter, a 9% decrease compared to the same period last year, reflecting the lower volume even with better tariffs.

這一影響部分被更高的處理量所抵消。[OPLA]。因此，該季度淨收入總計 2.43 億雷亞爾，比去年同期下降 9%，反映出即使關稅有所改善，銷量仍較低。

Ultracargo's adjusted EBITDA totaled BRL134 million, 20% below the third quarter of 2024, impacted by lower volumes and higher preoperational and initial costs at Palmeirante, which is still in its ramp-up phase partially offset by better tariffs. For the fourth quarter, we see a recovery in demand from our customers and the effects of the expansion. As a result, we expect a recovery in EBITDA compared to the third quarter.

Ultracargo 的調整後 EBITDA 總計 1.34 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2024 年第三季度下降 20%，受到 Palmeirante 貨運量下降以及運營前和初始成本上升的影響，該貨運量仍處於增長階段，但部分被更優惠的運價所抵消。第四季度，我們看到客戶需求復甦，擴張也帶來了正面影響。因此，我們預計 EBITDA 將比第三季有所回升。

Finally, going to Hidrovias. The volume handled in the quarter grew by 30% when compared to the same period last year, driven by the normalization of navigation in the South corridor, which allowed higher handling of iron ore. Adjusted EBITDA reached BRL332 million, compared to BRL169 million in the same period last year. Recurring EBITDA reached BRL361 million, more than twice the BRL169 million recorded in the third quarter of 2024.

最後，前往希德羅維亞斯。與去年同期相比，本季鐵​​礦石吞吐量成長了 30%，這主要得益於南部走廊航運的正常化，使得鐵礦石的吞吐量得以提高。調整後 EBITDA 達到 3.32 億雷亞爾，而去年同期為 1.69 億雷亞爾。經常性 EBITDA 達到 3.61 億雷亞爾，是 2024 年第三季記錄的 1.69 億雷亞爾的兩倍多。

This record performance mainly reflects better navigation conditions in the South corridor, as I mentioned earlier, and a better sales mix. On November 4, the Cabotage sale is completed, which will affect the results of the fourth quarter and reduce the company's debt. It is important to note that there is also the seasonality of the fourth quarter, which significantly affects navigability in the corridors. We expect an EBITDA similar to the fourth quarter of 2022.

正如我之前提到的，這項創紀錄的業績主要反映了南部走廊更好的航行條件和更好的銷售組合。11 月 4 日，Cabotage 出售完成，這將影響第四季度的業績並減少公司的債務。值得注意的是，第四季的季節性因素也會對走廊的通行造成重大影響。我們預計 EBITDA 將與 2022 年第四季類似。

With that, I conclude my presentation. Thank you all for the participation. Let's move to the Q&A session. To contribute to the dynamics of this moment, I reinforce that questions related to Hidrovias will be answered from the perspective of the controlling shareholders. Other operational details should be directed to the Hidrovia's IR team.

我的演講到此結束。感謝大家的參與。接下來進入問答環節。為了推動當前情勢的發展，我重申，與Hidrovias相關的問題將從控股股東的角度來回答。其他營運細節應諮詢Hidrovia的投資者關係團隊。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Gabriel Barra, Citi.

加布里埃爾·巴拉，花旗銀行。

I have two questions. First, let me focus on Ipiranga and all the changes you've mentioned during the data presentation. We've seen a sequence improvement and when we talk with the industry at large, there is an expectation of sequential improvement for the upcoming quarters in terms of volume margin and finding illegality. I'd like to hear about the end of the quarter and the trend for the fourth quarter, the new events that were observed probably they can be translated into better volumes, better margins.

我有兩個問題。首先，我想重點談談伊皮蘭加以及您在數據展示過程中提到的所有變化。我們已經看到一系列改進，當我們與整個行業交流時，大家普遍預期在接下來的幾個季度裡，銷售利潤率和查處違法行為方面都會有持續的改進。我想了解本季末的情況以及第四季的趨勢，觀察到的新事件或許可以轉化為更好的銷售量和更高的利潤率。

And I would like to hear about the company's strategy. Would it be to recover the lost market share to the informal market? Or would you thinking about optimizing your margins? What is your strategy? Maybe [Linden] can help us out.

我想了解一下公司的策略。是為了奪回被非正規市場搶佔的市佔率嗎？還是您考慮過優化利潤率？你的策略是什麼？或許[林登]能幫幫我們。

Now looking from a broader perspective at Ultra you've been making some investments in terms of capital allocation, which is a very important point considering Ultra has a vehicle of investments. So what are the next steps? You still have got a lot to deliver in Hidrovias, of course. But the company has already made all the incorporation of investments and all that. So what is the strategy for the future?

現在從更廣闊的角度來看，Ultra 在資本配置方面進行了一些投資，考慮到 Ultra 擁有投資工具，這一點非常重要。那麼下一步是什麼？當然，你在Hidrovias還有很多事情要做。但是該公司已經完成了所有投資整合等工作。那麼未來的戰略是什麼？

Where would you consider future investments, exactly when? What would be the timing? Would you think about greenfield, brownfield, something that would bring results in the short term. So these are my two questions.

您預計未來會在哪些領域進行投資？具體時間是什麼時候？具體時間安排是怎樣的？你會考慮新建項目、改建項目，還是其他能在短期內帶來成效的項目？這就是我的兩個問題。

Good morning, Gabriel, Linden speaking. The first question is -- would be probably asked by others, so I'm going to answer it broadly. First, hidden carbon operation, Carbono Oculto has been a very positive movement to our industry. It has contributed to Brazil to consumers. For those that make investments in the area, but we have to be aware of the fact that it's not over, investigations have to move on.

早安，加布里埃爾，我是林登。第一個問題──可能其他人也會問──所以我會概括地回答。首先，隱藏碳作業（Carbono Oculto）對我們的產業來說是一個非常積極的舉措。它為巴西的消費者做出了貢獻。對於那些在該地區進行投資的人來說，我們必須意識到事情還沒有結束，調查必須繼續進行。

And we have two important projects, one of them of bad debt vision and the other one of the one single phase investment. And these are projects that really have to move on and become law.

我們有兩個重要項目，一個是壞帳應對項目，另一個是單階段投資項目。這些項目確實需要推進並最終成為法律。

Similarly to hidden carbon there are 2 points. Volume and margin, the volume is becoming stronger, and you can see that there is an increasing trend. The end of the quarter was better. The first initiative of [Hidden code] operational was on the second half of August. And since then, we've been recovering volume.

與隱藏碳類似，這裡也有 2 個點。成交量和利潤率，成交量正在走強，你可以看到成交量呈上升趨勢。季度末情況有所改善。[隱藏代碼] 的第一個營運舉措是在八月下半月啟動的。從那以後，我們的銷量一直在恢復。

Not only volume really, but we can see selling our gasoline with additives being sold more with an increased share of it in the mix meaning that consumers are aware of [volume], positive news from volume. It's important to regain scale because of lost scale throughout months and months due to the irregularities of the industry.

不僅是銷量，我們還可以看到，添加添加劑的汽油銷量更高，其在混合燃料中的份額也更大，這意味著消費者已經意識到了銷量，這是來自銷量的積極消息。由於行業不規律性導致數月以來規模不斷縮小，因此恢復規模至關重要。

Margin is important, but it's not the only indicator. And the margin in terms of volume has been showing slower recovery, especially in B2B and highways, which is expected because these are markets exposed to problems that still persist, such as non mixing biodiesel. And they tend to be more resistant to changes in prices at gas station levels, large consumer contracts have parameters. So it takes longer to have adjustments. That's all predictable, and we are okay with that.

利潤率固然重要，但它並非唯一的指標。從銷售來看，利潤率的復甦速度較慢，尤其是在 B2B 和公路領域，這是意料之中的，因為這些市場仍然受到一些持續存在的問題的影響，例如生物柴油無法混合。而且，大型消費者合約往往對加油站價格的變化更具抵抗力，因為合約中存在一些參數。因此，調整所需的時間更長。這一切都在意料之中，我們對此並不介意。

We have to keep on fighting illegality. We cannot assume that everything is solved. No, we have to keep on hitting the regular market because there is still a lot to be done. Even though we have already observed significant improvement.

我們必須繼續打擊違法行為。我們不能假設所有問題都已解決。不，我們必須繼續開拓常規市場，因為還有很多工作要做。儘管我們已經觀察到顯著的改善。

For Ipiranga, it's important to recover scale. It's been a number of years with loss of volume due to irregular market, and we want the volume to be back, of course. Thirdly, margin is a consequence of the reaction of the market and how we work internally.

對伊皮蘭加來說，恢復規模很重要。多年來，由於市場波動不定，銷售量持續下滑，我們當然希望銷售量能恢復正常。第三，利潤率是市場反應和我們內部運作方式的結果。

We should stick to what we've always done, focusing on internal efficiencies, better processes and those who have been following our results know how much we emphasize that, especially in logistics and smaller operational expenses. Something that we've been working on, reducing and also emphasized by Palhares presentation.

我們應該堅持我們一直以來的做法，專注於提高內部效率、改善流程，那些一直關注我們績效的人都知道我們有多重視這一點，尤其是在物流和降低營運成本方面。這是我們一直在努力減少的，也是帕爾哈雷斯演講中強調的一點。

So very positive landscape, I have to say we had been waiting for this action for a long time. But of course, it's not over, the problem is not over.

所以，前景非常樂觀，我必須說，我們已經期待這一幕很久了。當然，事情還沒結束，問題還沒解決。

Volumes are picking up, especially in Rio and Sao Paulo, where there was most of the irregular activities and margins are going to naturally be recovered, but of course, depending on market reactions as well. But of course, we are also in all our internal efforts.

交易量正在回升，尤其是在裡約熱內盧和聖保羅，這兩個城市之前非正常交易活動最為頻繁，利潤率自然會恢復，但當然，這也取決於市場反應。當然，我們也在所有內部努力中都體現了這一點。

Barra, Rodrigo speaking. Thank you very much for the questions. Capital allocation, our next steps, right? In general lines, we are going to try to look up for companies and projects that have similar characteristics to what we found in Hidrovias. In other words, a good potential to create value that depends on us.

巴拉，羅德里戈在說話。非常感謝大家的提問。資金配置，這是我們下一步要做的事情，對吧？總的來說，我們將嘗試尋找與 Hidrovias 具有相似特徵的公司和專案。換句話說，我們擁有創造價值的巨大潛力，而這個價值取決於我們。

So what we can do with a company with an asset, unlocking growth, optimizing operations and assets. But if we don't come across good projects, that's okay, we just increased dividend sharing. We have these two options. Either we come across good projects or we increase dividend sharing.

那麼，對於一家擁有資產的公司，我們可以做些什麼呢？釋放成長潛力，優化營運和資產。但如果我們找不到好的項目，那也沒關係，我們只需提高股利分配比例。我們有兩種選擇。要嘛我們找到好的項目，要嘛我們提高股利分配比例。

Gustavo Sadka, Bradesco BBI.

Gustavo Sadka，布拉德斯科BBI。

My first question concerns cash generation, which was strong in the quarter and we've seen deleveraging. Now considering the new taxation of dividends, and the profit reserve you have in your balance sheet, should we expect more dividends to be distributed this year?

我的第一個問題與現金流有關，本季現金流表現強勁，我們已經看到槓桿率下降。現在考慮到股利的新稅收政策以及您資產負債表中的利潤儲備，我們是否應該預期今年會分配更多股利？

Second question about capital allocation as the company has been showing interest and have had exposure to the agri business, do you think about by a stake at [Rumo] because the partial investments of that can be offered in the market.

第二個問題是關於資本配置，因為公司一直對農業業務表現出興趣並有所涉足，您是否考慮持有 [Rumo] 的股份，因為部分投資可以在市場上出售。

About cash generation, you're right, it was a very strong quarter. The second half of the year tends to be stronger and probably that's going to be repeated in the fourth quarter. It is following the constant discussion of legislation changes and the taxes on dividends. And yes, this is a possibility, anticipating dividends in the fourth quarter.

關於現金流方面，你說得對，這確實是一個非常強勁的季度。下半年往往表現更強勁，第四季可能也會如此。這是因為人們一直在不斷討論立法變更和股利稅問題。是的，這確實是一種可能性，預計第四季將獲得股息。

Considering capital allocation, I'll just repeat what I've just said. We are always looking for good projects where we can create value, unlocking growth and optimizing operations. If we find these assets, we are going to do that. If not, we increase dividend distribution. That's it.

關於資本配置，我只想重複剛才說過的話。我們一直在尋找能夠創造價值、釋放成長潛力並優化營運的優秀項目。如果我們找到了這些資產，我們就會這麼做。否則，我們將增加股利分配。就是這樣。

Bruno Montanari, Morgan Stanley.

布魯諾蒙塔納裡，摩根士丹利。

Good morning. Quick follow-up with Ipiranga. Could you please quantify a ballpark figure of inventory variation so that we get a deal about normalized margins. And could you please tell us more about CapEx, especially in the third quarter. CapEx tends to be high in the fourth quarter, you've anticipated somewhat in the third quarter. So I'd like to know what we can expect for the fourth quarter at Ipiranga?

早安.迅速跟進伊皮蘭加的情況。請您量化一下庫存波動的大致範圍，以便我們能夠計算出標準化利潤率。能否請您詳細介紹一下資本支出狀況，特別是第三季的情況？資本支出通常在第四季度較高，而您在第三季度已經對此有所預期。所以我想知道伊皮蘭加第四季的情況如何？

Second question about cash flow. It's been a year of a number of adjustments in working capital because of the draft discount. But in working capital, the level we've seen in the third quarter. Is it sustainable? Or is there still more to be done to unlock somewhat more capital to the company. Thank you.

第二個問題是關於現金流的。由於匯票折扣，過去一年營運資金進行了多次調整。但就營運資金而言，我們第三季看到的水平。它可持續嗎？或者，還有更多工作要做，才能為公司釋放更多資金？謝謝。

About inventory levels, we don't talk about the levels of losses or gains because it's a result of our supplies policies. But I also remind you that there was a price oxilation in the third quarter of '24 and not '25. So the variation is more due to the fact that there was a change in '24.

關於庫存水平，我們不談論損失或收益水平，因為這是我們供應政策的結果。但我還要提醒各位，價格暴漲發生在 2024 年第三季度，而不是 2025 年第三季。所以這種差異更多是因為 2024 年發生了變化。

Concerning CapEx, in the year, the CapEx would be below what we had announced, probably 10% less than what was announced in our plan for 2025.

關於資本支出，今年的資本支出將低於我們先前宣布的金額，可能比我們在 2025 年計畫中宣布的金額減少 10%。

Palhares speaking. Concerning working capital, this is a very relevant topic to all our businesses. There are some efficiencies which are captured and they are onetime Possibilities included in the ordinary working capital of the company and some of them which result from market dynamics. These are the ones that we can repeat and maintain throughout upcoming periods.

帕爾哈雷斯發言。關於營運資金，這與我們所有的企業息息相關。有些效率提升是一次性的，包含在公司的普通營運資本中；有些效率提升則源自於市場動態。這些是我們能夠在接下來的時期重複和堅持的做法。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

Rodrigo Almeida，桑坦德。

Good morning, Ultra's team. I'd like to talk about Ultragaz. Recently, there were new reference prices published. I'd like to understand the net effect of this discussion, a lower reference price, some potential of gaining additional volume. Maybe you can tell us more and help us understand what is the net changes you expect in terms of volume and price?

Ultra團隊，早安。我想談談Ultragaz。最近公佈了新的參考價格。我想了解這次討論的最終效果，例如參考價格下降，以及潛在的成交量增加。或許您可以告訴我們更多信息，幫助我們了解您預期在銷量和價格方面會出現哪些淨變化？

Can you also please tell us more about the compliance of -- with resellers because in the end of the day, prices change at the level of the resellers, right?

能否也詳細介紹一下與經銷商的合規情況？因為歸根究底，價格的變動是由經銷商決定的，對嗎？

Hello, Rodrigo, Tabajara speaking on behalf of Ultragaz. Thank you for the question. The focus of [Gas do Povo], Gas to People. It's a program of the government. I think it's the right program to direct the benefit to the population that really needs it really fighting against the so-called energy poverty. Things which are going into effect in few weeks, starting in some cities and then being scaled up, but something very positive.

你好，羅德里戈，塔巴哈拉代表 Ultragaz 發言。謝謝你的提問。[Gas do Povo] 的重點是「人民的天然氣」。這是政府的一個計畫。我認為這是一個正確的計劃，可以將收益直接用於真正需要幫助的人群，並真正幫助他們對抗所謂的能源貧窮。一些措施將在幾週內生效，先在一些城市開始，然後逐步擴大規模，但這是非常積極的方面。

We've been supporting the program. You know the model is direct payment to resellers. We are exactly at the level you talked about communicating the project and trying to get more and more compliance. If the resellers have some questions, we answer them. The government has been presenting data.

我們一直支持這個計畫。你知道這種模式是直接向經銷商付款。我們目前正處於您所說的溝通項目和努力提高合規性的階段。如果經銷商有任何疑問，我們會回答。政府一直在公佈數據。

The last one, there were over 3,000 resellers already on board, showing more and more companies join and it will be maintained until the first to second quarter next year. It takes time. It takes some learnings, but it's following the initial design that was imagined. And we see it very positively as a social benefit of addressing a very important issue to our country. And we believe prices and volumes are going to gradually increase.

上一次，已有超過 3000 家經銷商加入，顯示越來越多的公司加入，這種情況將持續到明年第一季或第二季。這需要時間。這需要一些學習，但要遵循最初設想的設計。我們認為這是一項非常積極的社會公益舉措，因為它解決了對我們國家來說非常重要的問題。我們相信價格和銷售量將會逐步上漲。

If the reseller is compliant with the program, they are committed with all the elements of the program and it's a product that is going to be picked up. It's pick and collect, not delivery -- not delivered at homes. Each reseller is considering how to operate, how the program works and how well it fits their operations. It's been doing and believe it's going to be maintained.

如果經銷商遵守該計劃，他們就承諾履行該計劃的所有要素，並且該產品將被選中。這是自提，不是送貨上門──不送貨到家。每個經銷商都在考慮如何運作、該計劃如何運作以及它與自身營運的契合度。它一直都在這樣做，而且我相信它會繼續保持下去。

In a nutshell, we still see the program with the same perspective. This is just step one of implementation. There are more things to come certainly.

簡而言之，我們仍然以同樣的觀點看待這個項目。這只是實施的第一步。當然，未來還會有更多事情發生。

Gustavo Cunha, BTG Pactual.

Gustavo Cunha，BTG Pactual。

My question is about Ultragaz as well, trying to understand about the change in LPG. The Ministry of Mining and Energy called an extraordinary meeting to talk about this issue. And I'd like to see your perspective on this topic. And what do you expect in terms of time line?

我的問題也與 Ultragaz 有關，我想了解液化石油氣方面的變化。礦業能源部召開了一次特別會議，討論這個問題。我想聽聽你對這個話題的看法。您對時間安排有何預期？

Thank you for the question, Gustavo. There is still an ongoing process. You are calling it the reform or the regulatory review of LPG. In the beginning of the year, there were some initial inputs shared with the government. The national agency will probably launch a new review in upcoming months.

謝謝你的提問，古斯塔沃。目前該過程仍在進行中。你稱之為液化石油氣改革還是液化石油氣監管審查？年初時，我們向政府提供了一些初步意見。國家機構可能會在未來幾個月內啟動新的審查。

And in the current schedule, it is expected to be completed in the first half of 2026. So there's still a lot to happen. Different players are getting on board, they're discussing. I think it's following the expected path. We are highly convinced of what is the best for society.

根據目前的計劃，預計將於 2026 年上半年完工。所以還有很多事情要發生。不同的參與者都加入了進來，他們正在討論。我認為它正按預期發展。我們深信什麼對社會最有利。

It's a model of a high level of safety, well balanced and that's what has been in place, but that's still an open end process inputs are being made, and there are still a number of steps until the final decision regardless of what it is to really change the regulations.

這是一個安全水平很高、平衡性很好的模型，而且一直沿用至今，但這仍然是一個開放的過程，仍在不斷接收意見，而且無論最終決定如何，在真正改變法規之前，還有許多步驟需要完成。

Regis Cardoso, XP.

Regis Cardoso，XP。

Thanks all of you for your availability. In Ipiranga, I understood that you expect a similar level of profitability in the fourth quarter. Can you tell us about one-off effects, especially Inventory levels, also the draft discounts of the margin, competitive improvement that we've observed in October. So reconciling really the development of the fourth and the -- third and fourth quarter. And finally, in Ipiranga, could you please tell us about the offenders that you still see to margins.

感謝各位抽出時間。據我了解，Ipiranga方面預計第四季度獲利水準將與此類似。您能否談談一次性影響，特別是庫存水平，以及我們在 10 月觀察到的利潤率折扣和競爭改善？所以，要真正協調第四季和第三季、第四季的發展。最後，在伊皮蘭加，您能否告訴我們您仍然在邊緣地帶看到的違法者的情況？

Maybe you can make comments about direct sales to refining entities? And what about [seed bios] how do you see it? And how has it contributed to the operation?

您能否就直接向煉油企業銷售產品發表一些看法？那麼，你對[種子生物]有什麼看法？它對營運有何貢獻？

Concerning the fourth quarter, the guidance is clear. And once again, it's market dynamics. This is what we've been observing happening in the market. As I pointed out, there is volume impacting the fourth quarter and margin picking up slowly. I don't think I have much to add.

關於第四季度，指引很明確。再一次，這就是市場動態。這就是我們觀察到的市場現象。正如我所指出的，銷量影響了第四季度，利潤率正在緩慢回升。我覺得沒什麼要補充的了。

In terms of offenders, part of the offenders are still irregular activities that we observed throughout the market and have been covered by hidden or cold operation, [biodiesel, CBIOs ], certainly still a problem. But once again, the perspective is better now.

就違法者而言，部分違法者仍然是我們在整個市場觀察到的不規範活動，並且一直被隱藏或冷操作所掩蓋，[生物柴油，CBIOs]，這當然仍然是一個問題。但現在情況好多了。

We know there's still a lot to be done, and I emphasize once again about bad debt provision and single-phase taxation, which are both essential to address the root of the problem. But we are doing our work as best as we can, fighting irregularities together with the market. But that's it. No big news there.

我們知道還有很多工作要做，我再次強調壞帳準備和單階段徵稅，這兩點對於解決問題的根源都至關重要。但我們正在盡最大努力，與市場一起打擊違規行為。僅此而已。沒什麼大新聞。

Let me see if I got that straight. There hasn't been any relevant losses of inventory levels, right?

讓我確認一下我理解得是否正確。庫存水準沒有出現任何重大損失，對吧？

Yes. Right, none.

是的。對，一個也沒有。

Our Q&A session is completed. Now I would like now to hand it over to Alexandre Palhares for his closing remarks.

問答環節結束。現在我謹將發言權交給亞歷山大‧帕爾哈雷斯，請他作總結發言。

I would like to thank you once again for your interest and participation. Our Investor Relations team is here to answer any questions that we might not have answered. Thank you very much. See you next time.

我再次感謝各位的關注與參與。我們的投資人關係團隊隨時準備好解答您可能尚未解答的任何問題。非常感謝。下次見。

Well, the earnings release call of Ultra is finished now. Thank you very much for your participation. Have a great day.

好了，Ultra的財報電話會議已經結束了。非常感謝您的參與。祝你有美好的一天。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄稿中的英文陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員翻譯的。本次活動的翻譯人員由活動贊助公司提供。