Unity Software Inc (U) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Unity's Fourth Quarter 2023 and Year-End Earnings Call. My name is Daniel Amir, VP and Head of Investor Relations. After the closing of the market today, we issued our shareholder letter. That material is now available on our website at investors.unity.com. Today, I'm joined by Jim Whitehurst, our Interim CEO; and by Luis Visoso, our CFO.

歡迎參加 Unity 2023 年第四季和年終財報電話會議。我叫 Daniel Amir，是副總裁兼投資人關係主管。今天收盤後，我們發布了致股東的信。該資料現已在我們的網站 investors.unity.com 上發布。今天，我們與臨時執行長 Jim Whitehurst 一起出席；以及我們的財務長 Luis Visoso。

But before we begin, I want to note that today's discussion contains forward-looking statements including statements about goals, business outlook, industry trends, market opportunities, expectations for future financial performance and similar items, all of which are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. And you can find more information about these risks and uncertainties in the Risk Factors section of our filing at sec.gov. Actual results may differ, and we take no obligation to revise or update any forward-looking statements.

但在開始之前，我想指出，今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括關於目標、業務前景、行業趨勢、市場機會、對未來財務業績的預期和類似項目的陳述，所有這些都受風險、不確定性和假設的影響。您可以在我們提交給 sec.gov 的文件「風險因素」部分找到有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊。實際結果可能有所不同，我們不承擔修改或更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

Finally, during today's meeting, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP financial measures are in addition to, and not a substitute for or superior to, measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A full reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP is available in our shareholder letter and on the sec.gov website.

最後，在今天的會議上，我們將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非 GAAP 財務指標是根據 GAAP 編制的財務績效指標的補充，而不是替代或優於這些指標。我們的股東信函和 sec.gov 網站上提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的完整對照表。

Great. What we'll do now is similar like what we've done in previous quarters. We get a number of inbound questions during the quarter, and we will start with 2 key questions. The first to Jim, and then the second one to Luis.

偉大的。我們現在所做的與前幾季所做的類似。本季我們收到了許多問題，我們將從兩個關鍵問題開始。第一個是給吉姆的，第二個是給路易斯的。

So the first question is to Jim. After 5 months here, can you give your take on Unity and kind of provide us also an update on the CEO search?

所以第一個問題是問吉姆的。在這裡工作了 5 個月後，您能否談談對 Unity 的看法並提供一下 CEO 搜尋的最新進展？

Sure. Yes, I can't believe it's been almost 5 months. I have to say I'm even more excited now about the opportunity in front of us than I was when I joined. We're obviously in the midst of a reset. But let me spend maybe just a minute talking about why I'm so optimistic, and then I'll come back to the CEO search afterwards.

當然。是的，我不敢相信已經過了將近 5 個月。我必須說，現在我對眼前的機會比剛加入時更興奮。顯然，我們正處於重置之中。但是，請容許我花一分鐘的時間來談談我為什麼如此樂觀，然後我再回過頭來談論 CEO 搜尋。

So first off, I believe we're making the right interventions to position us to win for our customers, not just today, but for the long term. And let me just quickly hit 3 of those.

首先，我相信我們正在採取正確的干預措施，以使我們能夠為客戶贏得勝利，不僅是現在，而且是長期的。讓我快速地介紹一下其中的 3 個。

So first off, we've substantially focused our portfolio on products. We're confident that we have unique value for our customers, and therefore, have permission to win. And we're hearing great feedback. From our games customers, they're seeing the focus in our product road maps and our attentiveness to their needs. And so we're hearing great feedback there.

首先，我們的投資組合主要集中在產品上。我們相信，我們能為客戶提供獨特的價值，因此我們有能力獲得成功。我們聽到了非常好的回饋。從我們的遊戲客戶那裡，他們看到了我們產品路線圖的重點以及我們對他們需求的關注。因此我們聽到了很好的回饋。

Same on the Industry side, where, not just from what we've been doing in the last few months, but in particular, our focus on repeatable software and the partnership we announced with Capgemini. I've heard from several customers really positive view of that direction around focus.

行業方面也是如此，不僅僅是我們過去幾個月所做的事情，特別是我們對可重複軟體的關注以及我們與凱捷公司宣布的合作夥伴關係。我從幾位顧客那裡聽說了關於重點關注方向的非常積極的看法。

We've also instituted a much leaner cost structure that provides us a healthy profile. And then from there, we can scale in a profitable way. And third, we're in the process of improving our growth performance, specifically our user acquisition through better use of data and stronger models, and I'm very confident you'll see accelerating growth in our Grow business going forward.

我們也制定了更精簡的成本結構，為我們提供了健康的形象。然後從那裡開始，我們可以以有利可圖的方式擴大規模。第三，我們正在提高我們的成長績效，特別是透過更好地利用數據和更強大的模型來提高我們的用戶獲取率，我非常有信心你會看到我們的成長業務在未來加速成長。

The second reason I'm optimistic is that while 2023 was obviously a challenging year for us. We saw some key proof points around the durability of our franchise. Yes. So first off, even in the aftermath of the pricing change, our core subscription business, excluding China, grew 18% in Q4. Put it simply, we're essential to the games industry.

我樂觀的第二個原因是，雖然 2023 年對我們來說顯然是充滿挑戰的一年。我們看到了一些關於我們特許經營持久性的關鍵證明點。是的。首先，即使在價格變動之後，我們的核心訂閱業務（不包括中國）在第四季仍成長了 18%。簡單地說，我們對遊戲產業至關重要。

And then with Industry, it was actually our fastest-growing segment, and I believe we've just gotten started, and we have meaningful growth potential there. And the partnership with Capgemini should even further accelerate growth there.

然後就工業而言，這實際上是我們成長最快的領域，我相信我們才剛剛起步，並且我們在該領域具有有意義的成長潛力。與凱捷的合作將進一步加速那裡的成長。

And finally, our engagement with our Editor continues to be super, super strong. We saw that at Unite in November, and we plan to exceed our customer expectations with our next releases of the Editor through the course of this year. And the final reason I'm optimistic is that, obviously, the reset work continues through Q1, and it obscures our financial progress, but we expect to see strong financials in the back half of this year.

最後，我們與編輯的互動持續保持得非常非常緊密。我們在 11 月的 Unite 大會上看到了這一點，我們計劃在今年內發布的下一版編輯器中超越客戶的期望。我感到樂觀的最後一個原因是，顯然，重置工作將持續到第一季度，它掩蓋了我們的財務進展，但我們預計今年下半年的財務狀況將會強勁。

To the second part of the question, I don't have a super long update. The Board continues to conduct a thorough process to make sure we hire the best leader to write the next chapter of Unity's story, and I'm very committed to supporting the Board and the Board's decision.

對於問題的第二部分，我沒有超長的更新。董事會將繼續進行全面的流程，以確保我們聘請到最好的領導者來書寫 Unity 故事的下一篇章，我非常致力於支持董事會和董事會的決定。

Thank you. Luis, this question is for you. Can you provide additional perspective on the company's direction following the reset?

謝謝。路易斯，這個問題是問你的。您能否就公司重置後的發展方向提供更多看法？

Daniel, thank you. Yes, absolutely. We actually feel very proud of what we've accomplished. We've accomplished a lot in a short period of time. And we believe that, as Jim just said, that this intervention has positioned Unity for success going forward.

丹尼爾，謝謝你。是的，絕對是如此。我們確實對我們所取得的成就感到非常自豪。我們在短時間內完成了許多事情。我們相信，正如吉姆剛才所說，這次幹預為 Unity 未來的成功奠定了基礎。

If you look back at the end of last year, we started a 2-phase company reset that we expect will enable us to sustainably win with both customers and shareholders. The good news is that Phase 1 is mostly behind us.

如果回顧去年年底，我們啟動了兩階段的公司重組，我們希望這將使我們能夠持續贏得客戶和股東的青睞。好消息是第一階段基本上已經過去了。

This first phase was all about resetting our portfolio, resetting our cost structure so that we can refocus on our core businesses, the Engine, the Cloud, Monetization, while narrowing our investments on new businesses. And as a result, we're focusing on businesses where we believe we can sustainably create value for customers and generate a return for the company.

第一階段主要是重置我們的投資組合和成本結構，以便我們能夠重新專注於我們的核心業務、引擎、雲端、貨幣化，同時縮小對新業務的投資。因此，我們專注於那些我們相信能夠持續為客戶創造價值並為公司帶來回報的業務。

The unfortunate consequence of this first phase is that we had to let go of about 25% of our colleagues. That's super hard. These employees made many, many contributions to Unity and helped customers achieve their goals. We thank them for all their work and are really sad to see them go.

第一階段的不幸後果是我們不得不解僱大約 25％ 的同事。這真的太難了。這些員工為 Unity 做出了許多貢獻並幫助客戶實現了他們的目標。我們感謝他們所做的一切工作，並且非常遺憾看到他們離開。

Now what's exciting is actually the second phase of the reset. This is about reigniting revenue growth with healthy financials. And the good news is that, that starts this year. We expect revenue growth to accelerate in the second half of 2024 and maintain attractive levels of revenue growth thereafter while maintaining and extending our profitability.

現在令人興奮的實際上是重置的第二階段。這是為了透過健康的財務狀況重新激發收入成長。好消息是，這項計劃今年就開始了。我們預計營收成長將在 2024 年下半年加速，並在此後保持有吸引力的收入成長水平，同時保持並擴大我們的獲利能力。

Thank you. So now we go kind of on the second part here for Q&A. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。現在我們進入第二部分，進行問答。 （操作員指令）

Okay. So the first question comes from Jason Bazinet from Citi.

好的。第一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Jason Bazinet。

I was just wondering if you could unpack a bit just sort of the recast 2023 numbers after the portfolio review. I think the revenues came down $450 million, but the EBITDA came down $174 million.

我只是想知道您是否可以稍微解釋一下投資組合審查之後重新調整的 2023 年數字。我認為營收下降了 4.5 億美元，但 EBITDA 下降了 1.74 億美元。

And then I tried to read the text to understand if some of the things that you divested were EBITDA loss-making, and it said they were. But then in some of the footnotes, there was no real number in there. So can you just talk a little bit about the recast 2023 base and those adjustments?

然後我嘗試閱讀文本，以了解您剝離的某些資產是否會導致 EBITDA 虧損，結果顯示確實如此。但在一些腳註中，沒有實際的數字。那麼，您能否稍微談談重塑的 2023 年基礎和那些調整？

Yes. We know it's not easy to follow all these numbers, so we put a table on our shareholder letter. I think the first thing is, obviously, we had this onetime gain from Weta FX, right? We show that as $99 million in revenue, for example. So you see that in the table, which had a $102 million benefit in EBITDA. So you have to take that into account because that's a onetime gain.

是的。我們知道追蹤所有這些數字並不容易，所以我們在致股東信中放了一個表格。我認為第一件事顯然是我們從 Weta FX 獲得了一次性收益，對嗎？例如，我們將其顯示為 9900 萬美元的收入。所以您可以在表格中看到，EBITDA 收益為 1.02 億美元。所以你必須考慮到這一點，因為這是一次性收益。

The second thing is the portfolio changes that you alluded to, that's $283 million in 2023. Most of that is in Grow, a small portion to be precise, $15 million is within Grow, which is the Luna business. So you have to take that into account.

第二件事是你提到的投資組合變化，到 2023 年將達到 2.83 億美元。所以你必須考慮到這一點。

That operated at a significant loss, which is why we're exiting these businesses because we could not create a return for us while providing value to our customers. We did not quantify that for you because it's not audited, but it's a very significant number that we're getting rid of.

業務的營運虧損嚴重，這就是我們退出這些業務的原因，因為我們無法在為客戶提供價值的同時為自己創造回報。我們沒有為您量化它，因為它沒有經過審計，但這是我們正在擺脫的一個非常重要的數字。

And third, you have this customer credits that we explained in the shareholder letter and which we mentioned in the 10-Q last quarter, which was $72 million in revenue and $72 million in EBITDA. So if you really look at the comparable base for '23, you should start with $1.7 billion in revenue and $274 million in EBITDA, and that's what we're building from. Does that answer your question?

第三，我們在致股東信中解釋過，上個季度的 10-Q 報告中也提到過，客戶信用額度為 7,200 萬美元，EBITDA 為 7,200 萬美元。因此，如果你真正看一下23年的可比基數，你應該從17億美元的收入和2.74億美元的EBITDA開始，這就是我們所建立的基礎。這回答了你的問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you. Next question is Dylan Becker from William Blair.

謝謝。下一個提問者是 William Blair 的 Dylan Becker。

Two, if I could squeeze them. Maybe first, a combination for Jim and Luis here. You're kind of nearing the end of the strategic review. Wonder how you're thinking about to maybe the earlier point, Luis, on getting rid of some loss-generating businesses, but also kind of catching up investment.

二，如果我可以擠壓它們的話。也許首先，這是 Jim 和 Luis 的組合。您已經接近戰略評估的尾聲了。路易斯，想知道您如何看待之前提到的那個觀點，即擺脫一些虧損業務，同時也追趕投資。

As we think about kind of doubling down around the core, kind of what's the right way of thinking about kind of the trade-off of the 2? And how that layers into kind of the growth and margin outlook in the business over time?

當我們考慮將核心加倍時，如何正確思考兩者之間的權衡？隨著時間的推移，這會對業務的成長和利潤前景產生什麼影響？

Yes...

是的...

Well, I'll just start quickly on, look, the core of this, and we try to be consistent all along internally as we've been going through the reset is this is all focused on getting a portfolio where we believe we can win and then making sure that we are appropriately resourcing that portfolio to win.

好吧，我就快速開始講一下這件事的核心，我們在進行重新設定的過程中，一直試圖在內部保持一致，這一切都集中在獲得一個我們相信可以獲勝的投資組合，然後確保我們為該投資組合提供適當的資源以贏得勝利。

And so was clear internally that this exercise wasn't about optimizing 2024 EBITDA. It was about getting us lean and efficient and fully resourcing the areas we expect to win because, ultimately, we believe there is a tremendous amount of growth in the company. So Luis, I think you want to talk a little more about the specifics.

因此，內部明確表示，這次行動並不是為了優化 2024 年的 EBITDA。這是為了讓我們精簡和高效，並為我們期望成功的領域提供充足的資源，因為最終我們相信公司將實現巨大的成長。所以路易斯，我想你想再多談談具體細節。

No, I totally agree, Jim. Dylan, the way to think about it is we fully funded the priorities that we had in mind, and those are funded to the right levels. And those that we just didn't think we could generate a return for us or for our customers, we totally defunded. Being half pregnant, if you wish, just doesn't make sense. So that's why we feel confident about our ability to reaccelerate growth because we're funding those things that really matter.

不，我完全同意，吉姆。迪倫，我們應該這樣想：我們為我們心中的優先事項提供了充足的資金，而這些資金的水平是正確的。而對於那些我們認為無法為自己或我們的客戶帶來回報的項目，我們則完全取消了資金支持。如果你願意的話，懷孕到一半就沒意義了。這就是為什麼我們對重新加速成長的能力充滿信心，因為我們正在為真正重要的事情提供資金。

Okay. Great. Super helpful there. And then maybe one...

好的。偉大的。那裡超級有幫助。然後也許一個...

And I guess, what I would say on that, Dylan, just, I mean, as we kind of exit the year, I think we're -- in general, you have our mind, this should be a Rule of 40 company and be that way for quite a while, if that gives you a sense of kind of roughly where we see ourselves.

我想說的是，迪倫，當我們即將結束這一年時，我想我們——總的來說，你知道我們的想法，這應該是一個“40 規則”的公司，並且在相當長的一段時間內保持這種狀態，如果這能讓你大致了解我們對自己的看法的話。

Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Appreciate the color there, Jim. Maybe you mentioned some of the platform investments, too, and Unity 6 upselling. I guess, how should we think about the pricing and maybe conversion? How you're kind of incentivizing new features within that platform as well? It's probably more of a 2025 kind of type of story, but how that kind of fuels the commentary around kind of accelerating momentum throughout the back half of this year as well, and kind of thoughts on Unity 6.

絕對地。是的。好的。欣賞那裡的色彩，吉姆。也許您也提到了一些平台投資和 Unity 6 的追加銷售。我想，我們該如何考慮定價和轉換呢？您如何激勵平台的新功能？這可能更像是 2025 年的故事，但它如何推動圍繞今年下半年加速發展勢頭的評論，以及對 Unity 6 的思考。

Well, so I'll start. And frankly, we're resourcing both Unity 6 and Unity 7 because -- well, we won't go too far as the details of that. Please come to GDC, and you'll hear a lot more detail. So we do think that we are heavily funding our road maps against our core kind of product offering. And we'll talk more about that here in a couple of weeks at GDC.

好，那我就開始了。坦白說，我們同時為 Unity 6 和 Unity 7 提供資源，因為——好吧，我們不會透露太多細節。請參加 GDC，您將會聽到更多詳細資訊。因此，我們確實認為，我們正在為針對我們的核心產品供應的路線圖投入大量資金。我們將在幾週後的 GDC 上進一步討論這個問題。

In terms of how we're thinking about kind of pricing against that, you're right, it's mainly a 2025 kind of story. So it really doesn't affect the numbers that you see this year. What I will say is, we think there is a lot of organic growth in this portfolio. So we're not heavily reliant on just kind of raising price. I do think there's more value we provide in our offering.

關於我們如何考慮定價，您說得對，這主要是 2025 年的故事。所以它實際上並不影響你今年看到的數字。我想說的是，我們認為這個投資組合有很多有機成長。因此，我們並不過度依賴單純的提高價格。我確實認為我們提供的產品具有更多的價值。

But when we look at our position in the games industry, when we talk about long-term growth, that has more to do with our current product suite and kind of future offerings we can have more than pricing leverage. But we haven't really kind of laid that out for 2025 and beyond in a way that could give you -- quantify it in any stretch.

但當我們審視我們在遊戲產業的地位並談論長期成長時，這更多地與我們當前的產品套件和未來產品類型有關，我們可以擁有的不僅僅是定價槓桿。但我們還沒有真正對 2025 年及以後的情況做出規劃，以便能夠對其進行量化。

Yes. Dylan, maybe just 2 points to reinforce some of the things Jim is saying. You saw that our core business -- our core subscription business, so that's the Editor, excluding China, is growing 18%. So very healthy levels of growth. And when we look at engagement, so new projects being started.

是的。迪倫，也許只需 2 點就可以強化吉姆所說的一些事情。您會發現，我們的核心業務——我們的核心訂閱業務，即編輯，除中國外，增長了 18%。因此，增長水平非常健康。當我們關注參與度時，新的專案就開始了。

So the engagement with the Editor continues to be very, very healthy. So we're very excited about that. And obviously, there is great interest in all our AI tools from our customers. So they are -- the Muse is now available. So they are using it, and we're happy with the progress we're making, Dylan.

因此與編輯的互動仍然非常非常健康。我們對此感到非常興奮。顯然，客戶對我們所有的 AI 工具都非常感興趣。事實也是如此—— Muse 現已上市。所以他們正在使用它，我們對所取得的進展感到滿意，迪倫。

Great. So our next question is Brian Fitzgerald from Wells Fargo.

偉大的。我們的下一個問題是來自富國銀行的布萊恩·菲茨傑拉德。

In the shareholder letter, and maybe just as a follow on to Dylan's question, you unpacked Growth reacceleration in the second half of the year. Can you parse that out a little bit? Is that just primarily from runtime fees? Is it the release of Unity 6? Or is there something else feeding into that, maybe the growth of Industries, like you talked about?

在致股東的信中，也許只是作為對迪倫問題的後續回答，您闡述了今年下半年的成長重新加速。能稍微分析一下嗎？這主要來自於運行費用嗎？是 Unity 6 的發布嗎？或者有其他因素促成了這一點，例如您剛才談到的工業成長？

Yes. Really, this runtime fee does not have an impact in the second half or nothing meaningful. So the reason why we are excited about and confident that we'll see some acceleration is really back-end innovation that we are bringing across all our product lines. Jim talked a little bit about some of the innovation we're bringing on Grow to make our products more competitive: data, performance, return on ad spending.

是的。真的，這個運行費用對下半年不會產生影響或沒有任何意義。因此，我們之所以感到興奮並且有信心看到一些加速，實際上是因為我們在所有產品線上都進行了後端創新。吉姆談到了我們在 Grow 上進行的一些創新，以使我們的產品更具競爭力：數據、效能、廣告支出回報率。

So we're making a ton of interventions then -- there so that our business can accelerate. And it's really that. It's the innovation across both businesses, both in Games and across Industries where we expect to accelerate growth.

因此，我們採取了大量的干預措施，以便我們的業務能夠加速發展。事實確實如此。我們預計將加速遊戲和行業兩個業務的創新，從而加速成長。

Yes. The only thing I would say I would add is we're in the middle of a reset. And so we were pretty conservative in the first half of the year because, obviously, when we are especially dealing with people, right, that gets to be very distracting. And so we're pretty conservative in the first half of the year.

是的。我唯一想補充的是，我們正處於重置階段。因此，我們在今年上半年相當保守，因為很明顯，當我們特別與人打交道時，這會非常令人分心。因此，我們對上半年的態度相當保守。

But we just kind of look at kind of the market and where we expect as we go forward is another reason you're seeing that. It's both. We have confidence in the back half, but it's also -- if you look at first half to back half, there's also an assumption around a little bit more distraction right now that we will get behind this year as we finalize the reset.

但是我們只是看一下市場以及我們對未來發展的預期，這也是您看到這種情況的另一個原因。兩者都有。我們對下半年充滿信心，但同時——如果你將上半年與下半年進行比較，你會發現現在還有一種假設，那就是隨著我們最終確定重置，我們今年將落後，而且會面臨更多的干擾。

And it sounds like there's growth in the Grow side of the business as well. When you talked a little bit about what's happening sequentially and it being down, was that just kind of a developer discontent with kind of how the real-time runtime fees were rolled out? And -- or is it more to what you're talking about, we're going to develop on the tool sets and make the Grow side of the business more data-informed, more competitive?

聽起來業務的 Grow 方面也在成長。當您談到接下來發生的事情以及為何它會下降時，這是否只是開發人員對即時運行費用的推出方式感到不滿？或者說，您說的更多是，我們將開發工具集，使業務的成長方面更加數據化、更具競爭力？

Yes. We didn't really see as much of an impact. There was an impact, as you mentioned, but it was not very meaningful in Q4. We are not guiding by segment going into 2024. But yes, you're right, we're expecting an improvement in both businesses throughout the year, for the reasons that Jim mentioned.

是的。我們實際上並沒有看到太大的影響。正如您所說，確實有影響，但在第四季度並不是很顯著。我們不會根據各個細分市場來預測 2024 年的表現。

I guess a little bit more on that. Just to be blunt, last year, we were doing a lot of kind of integration with ironSource and Unity. And frankly, when that happens, you become maybe a little less focused on driving feature velocity.

我想對此還有更多了解。坦白說，去年我們與 ironSource 和 Unity 進行了大量整合。坦白說，當這種情況發生時，您可能會不太關注推動功能速度。

And so I do think that level of distraction kind of put us a bit behind. That's now behind us. We have the teams integrated and we have a plan that I think we're very confident in. It closes any competitive gaps that we have. So -- and that's somewhat reflected in the growth numbers in the back half of the year.

因此我確實認為這種程度的分心讓我們有點落後。這些都已經成為過去了。我們已經整合了團隊，我們有一個我認為我們非常有信心的計劃。所以 — — 這在一定程度上反映在下半年的成長數據上。

Great. Next question is Tim Nollen from Macquarie.

偉大的。下一個提問者是麥格理的 Tim Nollen。

Great. Actually, perfect segue into my question from the last bit there, which is about the ironSource integration. Could you just talk a little bit more about, I guess, what was not an immediate integration when the acquisition was made? Now it sounds like you feel like you have completed the acquisition.

偉大的。實際上，完美地銜接了我最後一點的問題，即關於 ironSource 整合的問題。您能否再多談一下在收購時沒有立即整合的內容？現在聽起來你感覺你已經完成了收購。

I've noticed some fairly big name departures from ironSource. If there's anything you could talk about that? And then could you just clarify about the $72 million in credits? Just -- is this something that was done to roll people on to the LevelPlay platform back in the day? And then why is that being unwound now?

我注意到一些相當知名的名字已經離開了 ironSource。能談談這方面的問題嗎？那麼您能否澄清一下 7,200 萬美元的信貸額度？只是——這是為了吸引人們加入 LevelPlay 平台而採取的措施嗎？那為什麼現在要解除這個禁令呢？

Well, let me maybe start on the work stuff. I mean, naturally, when 2 companies come together, first off, you need to make sure that you're retaining the right people, you have a continuity of business, and then, over time, you bring the pieces together. And so we were working on that through the course of last year.

好吧，也許我應該開始談工作方面的事情。我的意思是，當兩家公司合併時，首先你需要確保留住合適的人才，確保業務的連續性，然後隨著時間的推移，將各個部分整合在一起。因此我們去年一直致力於此。

And that kind of culminated, ultimately, without, say, kind of a full integration at the end of the year as we kind of came into January as part of our overall restructuring. So we're a little bit more of a functional organization. So for the first time, we have one owner of Commercial or kind of a CRO for the Ads business across both Unity and ironSource.

而這種情況最終在年底達到了頂峰，因為我們在 1 月進行了整體重組，因此無法實現全面整合。因此，我們更像是一個功能性組織。因此，這是我們第一次在 Unity 和 ironSource 中擁有一位商業所有者或廣告業務的 CRO。

And we have one leader of product and technology across both. So we frankly had 2 data science teams until January. We now have one. We had 2 different kind of data engineering teams. We now have one. And so naturally, just how you think about sequencings and then acquisitions kind of takes a period of time.

我們在兩個領域均擁有一位產品和技術領導者。所以坦白說，到一月份為止我們已經有 2 個數據科學團隊了。現在我們有一個了。我們有兩種不同類型的資料工程團隊。現在我們有一個了。因此，自然而然地，思考排序和收購需要一段時間。

And so we are there now, and we feel like these single teams and singular focus will serve us well. As part of that, naturally, the founders who ran kind of ironSource were kind of ready to step back and create room for people within ironSource to come in and take roles.

所以我們現在就處於這種情況，我們覺得這些單獨的團隊和單一的焦點將對我們大有裨益。作為其中的一部分，自然而然地，管理 ironSource 的創始人準備退出並為 ironSource 內部的人們創造空間來擔任職務。

And so as part of that whole integration, I think they decided it was time to step back. I still talk to many of those leaders every week. They're heavily engaged and care about the success, obviously, of their baby in ironSource, but more broadly for Unity as we go forward.

因此，作為整個整合的一部分，我認為他們決定是時候退出了。我每週仍與許多領導人進行交談。顯然，他們非常投入並關心他們的寶貝 ironSource 的成功，但隨著我們未來的發展，他們對 Unity 的關注度將更加廣泛。

Yes. To the second part of your question, Tim. So we've communicated this for some time now. There were some incentives that ironSource provided to their customers before the merger, right? And some of those integration fees were returned to us, and we recorded those as revenue throughout the year. So what we wanted to make sure is that you all had all transparency in what those amounts were. So we included that in the table on where we show a revenue by quarter for Grow.

是的。對於你問題的第二部分，提姆。我們已經溝通這個問題有一段時間了。在合併之前，ironSource 為其客戶提供了一些激勵措施，對嗎？其中一些整合費用已退還給我們，我們將其記錄為全年收入。因此，我們希望確保大家對這些金額有完全透明的了解。因此，我們將其納入了顯示 Grow 按季度計算的收入的表格中。

So most of the difference between that and our reported number is the integration fees that were returned. The only difference is $15 million from Luna, which basically spreads consistent throughout the year. So you can assume $3 million to $4 million per quarter. But everything else is related to the integration fees that were returned to Unity. So we're just giving you that exact number so you have it. It's in the base.

因此，該數字與我們報告的數字之間的大部分差額就是退還的整合費用。唯一的差異是來自 Luna 的 1500 萬美元，這筆資金基本上全年都保持穩定。因此你可以假設每季的收入為300萬到400萬美元。但其他一切都與退還給 Unity 的整合費用有關。因此我們只是給你這個確切的數字，以便你了解它。它在基地裡。

Thanks. So next question is from Michael Funk at Bank of America.

謝謝。下一個問題來自美國銀行的麥可‧芬克 (Michael Funk)。

So a couple, if I could. Looking at the revenue and the margin guidance for the year, I think you said 25%-plus EBITDA margin exiting fourth quarter. I mean it seems like trajectory that could be predicted throughout the year would imply a higher margin by fourth quarter. So just curious if that is maybe the head count reduction benefit going away in the second half or reinvesting back into the business? So that first question is the -- on the EBITDA margin.

如果可以的話，我會給你一對。從今年的營收和利潤率預期來看，我認為您說過第四季度的 EBITDA 利潤率將超過 25%。我的意思是，看起來全年可以預測的軌跡意味著第四季的利潤率會更高。所以我很好奇這是否意味著下半年裁員福利將會消失或重新投資到業務中？所以第一個問題是關於 EBITDA 利潤率。

Yes. Michael, we are -- we'll be including our guidance, Jim mentioned. We also want to make sure that we're properly investing back as -- back to one of the first questions during the meeting. So we're hitting the right balance. We want to be a Rule of 40 company.

是的。邁克爾，我們 - 我們將包括我們的指導，吉姆提到。我們還想確保我們正在正確地進行投資——回到會議期間提出的第一個問題之一。因此，我們達到了正確的平衡。我們希望成為一家遵守「40 規則」的公司。

And we think we can be close to that towards the end of the year. So that's what we're trying to achieve. And we clearly see a path to get there. But we're driving -- as you've seen, we're driving our margins and cost efficiencies hard, but never at the expense of growth.

我們認為到今年年底我們就能接近這個目標。這就是我們想要實現的目標。我們清楚地看到了實現這一目標的道路。但正如您所看到的，我們正在努力提高利潤率和成本效率，但絕不會以犧牲成長為代價。

Okay. So the comment was, hopefully, Rule of 40 company by the end of the year. Was that correct?

好的。因此，希望在今年年底，公司能夠遵守 40 條規則。那正確嗎？

Yes, that would be our target.

是的，那就是我們的目標。

Okay. And then the last one, if I could, on the competitive environment. You mentioned in the shareholder letter competitive intensity impacting the business. Can you expand on that comment, please?

好的。如果可以的話，最後一個問題是關於競爭環境。您在致股東的信中提到了競爭強度對業務的影響。能進一步闡述該評論嗎？

Yes. I mean on the Grow side, we're just seeing a more intense competitive environment, right? And you've all seen some of our competitors report numbers. Some of them have been better than ours. So it's just been a more intense and some of the innovation they've brought to the market has been strong.

是的。我的意思是，從 Grow 方面來看，我們看到了更激烈的競爭環境，對嗎？大家也都看到了我們的一些競爭對手的報告數字。其中一些比我們的更好。因此，他們的競爭更加激烈，他們為市場帶來的一些創新也非常強勁。

And as Jim said, we were busy doing integration work. And now we have very -- we know what our gaps are, and we have aggressive plans to close those in the very short period of time. So we're working towards. So that's what we referred to in the note.

正如吉姆所說，我們正忙於整合工作。現在我們非常清楚我們的差距在哪裡，我們有積極的計劃在很短的時間內彌補這些差距。我們正在努力。這就是我們在說明中提到的內容。

Great. So next question is from Chris Kuntarich at UBS.

偉大的。下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Chris Kuntarich。

Great. Maybe the first one on the multiplayer business. You guys talked about shifting the service to orchestration and managed solutions. Can you just unpack this a bit? And then maybe just how we should be thinking about this margin profile going forward?

偉大的。也許是第一款多人遊戲。你們談到了將服務轉向編排和託管解決方案。你能稍微解釋一下嗎？那麼也許我們該如何考慮未來的利潤狀況呢？

Yes. If you think about our Multiplayer business, really, we had 2 things. One is kind of think about the hardware component of that, and that is, that's just not our strength. That's not a business where we can generate a good return. And that's not a business where we have the scale to offer competitive prices to our customers. So it's exactly what we're not trying to do.

是的。如果你考慮一下我們的多人遊戲業務，實際上我們有兩件事。一是考慮硬體部分，這不是我們的強項。這不是一項能為我們帶來良好回報的業務。而這並不是我們擁有足夠規模來提供客戶有競爭力的價格的業務。這正是我們不想做的事。

Having said that, what we offer a unique value is in the orchestration layer of that hosting of the game, multiplayer -- for the multiplayer games. So we're going to continue to be in that business. That's a software business. That's a profitable business. That's something that we uniquely can provide to our customers. And we're getting out of the hardware business because, as I just said, we're just not -- that's not unique for Unity to provide value to our customers.

話雖如此，我們所提供的獨特價值在於遊戲託管的編排層，多人遊戲——針對多人遊戲。因此我們將繼續從事該業務。這是一項軟體業務。這是一項有利可圖的生意。這是我們能為客戶提供的獨特服務。而且我們正在退出硬體業務，因為正如我剛才所說，我們無法為客戶提供獨特的價值。

Got it. And maybe just one follow-up on China. I know you had talked about growth ex China within the Engine. But just curious, we've heard it across the space. The Chinese gaming ad spend has been a source of outperformance. Can you just talk a bit about how this performed in 4Q for you and just kind of the opportunity for Unity on a go-forward basis?

知道了。或許只需要對中國進行一次後續報道。我知道您曾經談論過中國以外的引擎成長。但只是好奇，我們已經聽到這個消息了。中國遊戲廣告支出一直是其優異表現的一個來源。您能否簡單談談第四季的表現以及 Unity 未來的發展機會？

Yes. So you have to think about China in different ways, right? The Create business is mostly our customers in China developing games in China. That business has been tough. As we know, there are some restrictions in the Chinese market, and that continues to impact our growth in Create, specifically.

是的。所以你必須用不同的方式看待中國，對嗎？ Create 業務主要是我們在中國的客戶，在中國開發遊戲。這項業務一直很艱難。我們知道，中國市場存在一些限制，這對我們在 Create 方面的成長產生了持續影響。

On Grow, our growth in China, which reflects 2 things -- again, it reflects business in China, but also Chinese-based customers doing business outside of China, that has been performing well, just like any other region. So we've been seeing good growth there.

關於 Grow，我們在中國的成長反映了兩件事——再次，它反映了在中國的業務，也反映了在中國以外開展業務的中國客戶的表現良好，就像其他地區一樣。因此我們看到那裡出現了良好的增長。

Great. Next question is Andrew Boone from JMP Securities.

偉大的。下一個問題是 JMP Securities 的 Andrew Boone。

Can you talk about the slimming down of the portfolio and whether that changes the trajectory at all for nongaming, your Industries business? And then for my second, how do we think about Professional Services following the Capgemini partnership? Is there any change in strategy or anything else we should note there?

您能否談談投資組合的縮減以及這是否會改變您的工業業務（非博彩業務）的發展軌跡？第二，與凱捷合作後，我們如何看待專業服務？戰略上是否有任何變化或還有其他我們應該注意的地方？

Yes. Maybe I'll start there. So like, look, obviously, revenue goes down because Professional Services is a lot of dollars. So -- but we -- that's why we kind of showed the reset in the numbers. Our strategy -- I come from an enterprise background. I have been blown away at how much interest there is, and frankly, how much patience there has been from our customers kind of with us to get this right.

是的。也許我會從那裡開始。所以，顯然，收入會下降，因為專業服務需要花費很多錢。所以 — — 但我們 — — 這就是為什麼我們在數字中顯示重設。我們的策略—我來自企業背景。我對客戶表現出的興趣之大感到震驚，坦白說，我們的客戶也對我們表現出了極大的耐心，以便把這件事做好。

Because, frankly, there is no other solution that's anywhere near as compelling as what we can offer. And that goes from visualization, so how do you connect with end customers with a richer view of product, to configuration through distribution, all the way back to, obviously, the design things. There's a whole education and training component with AR/VR.

因為坦白說，沒有其他解決方案能像我們提供的解決方案一樣引人注目。這從視覺化開始，那麼如何透過更豐富的產品視圖與最終客戶建立聯繫，到透過分銷進行配置，一直追溯到設計方面。 AR/VR 包含完整的教育和培訓部分。

But one of the things you can realize, as I talk through all of these things, visualization is a component of a solution. Whether that is a way that you're interacting with your customers in a richer way or whether that is building education content, right? So as you will often see with infrastructure software companies, you're very much partner-led in how you go to market because building those solutions is not our forte.

但是，當我談論所有這些事情時，您會意識到一件事，而視覺化是解決方案的一個組成部分。這是否是您以更豐富的方式與客戶互動的方式，還是建立教育內容的方式，對嗎？因此，正如你在基礎設施軟體公司中經常看到的那樣，在如何進入市場方面，合作夥伴在很大程度上是主導的，因為建立這些解決方案不是我們的強項。

And so we've made a decision to be a software company and double down our road maps on delivering excellent software and working with partners like Capgemini, who can take that software and build solutions, and that's their business. So I feel highly confident that by focusing on software and building partnerships with people who frankly, have more scale and expertise on delivering in solutions. We will substantially accelerate that business. I'm super excited about it.

因此，我們決定成為一家軟體公司，加倍努力提供優秀的軟體，並與凱捷等合作夥伴合作，他們可以利用這些軟體建立解決方案，這是他們的業務。因此，我非常有信心，透過專注於軟體並與在提供解決方案方面擁有更多規模和專業知識的人士建立合作夥伴關係。我們將大幅加快此項業務。我對此非常興奮。

Obviously, higher margin profile because it's a software business. But again, if you look at infrastructure software companies, if you think about visualization and what we do as a component of infrastructure, virtually, all software companies that do that are heavily partner-led. And so what you're seeing is a strategy for us to move in that direction. We'll get much better distribution.

顯然，由於這是軟體業務，因此利潤率更高。但是，如果你再看看基礎設施軟體公司，如果你考慮視覺化以及我們作為基礎設施的一個組成部分所做的事情，那麼實際上，所有這樣做的軟體公司都是由合作夥伴主導的。所以，您所看到的是我們朝這個方向發展的策略。我們將獲得更好的分佈。

I think we get much better outcomes by working with people like Capgemini who are experts in delivering solutions. And we'll just get a lot more scale. Capgemini can bring a lot more people to this than we certainly can in Professional Services. So we are -- I am absolutely convinced, the company is absolutely convinced that we call it Industries, but selling into nongaming enterprise customers is a tremendous opportunity for us going forward.

我認為，透過與凱捷等提供解決方案的專家合作，我們會獲得更好的結果。我們的規模將會更大。與我們在專業服務領域相比，凱捷可以為此招募更多的人才。所以我們——我完全相信，公司完全相信我們稱之為工業，但向非遊戲企業客戶銷售產品對我們未來來說是一個巨大的機會。

But again, we want to recognize we're a software company, and we're going to build an efficient, effective kind of go-to-market in a way that, that infrastructure is turning to solutions for our customers, and Capgemini is part of that. And again, talking to some of our customers, they're really excited about it because I think they know that we're better at building interactive 3D software, not necessarily building their industry vertical solutions out of that.

但是，我們再次承認我們是一家軟體公司，我們將建立一種高效、有效的行銷方式，讓這種基礎設施為我們的客戶提供解決方案，而凱捷就是其中的一部分。而且，在與我們的一些客戶交談時，他們對此感到非常興奮，因為我認為他們知道我們更擅長建立互動式 3D 軟體，而不一定在此基礎上建立他們的行業垂直解決方案。

Great. So next question is Matthew Cost from Morgan Stanley.

偉大的。下一個問題是摩根士丹利的馬修‧科斯特 (Matthew Cost)。

Maybe I'll just start by following up on Industry. I think that you said in the opening paragraph of the shareholder letter that you think it can be a bigger business than Gaming. So I guess, are there specific use cases or industry verticals that you're seeing really strong uptake in that you feel you can have that level of confidence in it that it can get from I think you said 23% of the subscription business to the majority of it over time? And then I have a follow-up.

或許我應該先關註一下產業。我記得您在致股東信的開頭一段中說過，您認為這可以成為比遊戲更大的生意。所以我想，您是否看到了特定的用例或垂直行業有非常強勁的增長勢頭，您覺得您可以對它有這樣的信心，我認為它能從您所說的 23% 的訂閱業務隨著時間的推移發展到大部分？然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes. Well, I will start, and maybe I'll just give you a little bit of color on a couple of the use cases. And I'm going to try to take names out of it because, honestly, I'm not sure who we actually have commitments to be able to use their names. So -- and let me just do several real quick.

是的。好吧，我先開始，也許我會給你稍微介紹一下幾個用例。我將嘗試從中去掉名字，因為說實話，我不確定我們實際上是否承諾可以使用他們的名字。那麼——讓我快速做幾件事。

So one is there are a number of luxury retailers who don't necessarily have all of their inventory in every single store that they have, but they want to have rich experiences so people can see in detail their products. And this goes from jewelry to clothing. And so we have multiple customers who are -- who use our technology to be able to have iPads in the store, where you can have immersive real-time. So you can spin around the product, you can zoom in, you can look at it closely.

一方面，許多奢侈品零售商並不一定在每家商店都備有所有庫存，但他們希望提供豐富的體驗，以便人們可以詳細了解他們的產品。從珠寶到服裝，都是如此。因此，我們有多個客戶，他們使用我們的技術，可以在商店中使用 iPad，享受身臨其境的即時體驗。因此，您可以旋轉產品，可以放大，可以仔細觀察。

And according to these customers, there's no other way to do it in a performant way on an iPad. I know that sounds simple. But again, to have a real-time engine that's efficient enough that somebody can spin it around in real time, zoom in, it's just -- we are the best way to do that. So there's a whole series of, I call it, luxury retailers who see that. Obviously, that can go beyond luxury retail.

據這些客戶稱，在 iPad 上沒有其他方法可以有效地實現這一目標。我知道這聽起來很簡單。但是，再說一次，要有一個足夠高效的實時引擎，以便有人可以實時旋轉它，放大，這只是 - 我們做到這一點的最佳方式。有很多我稱之為奢侈品零售商的人都看到了這一點。顯然，這超越了奢侈品零售的範疇。

We're seeing, on the industrial side, customers saying, "Hey, we have 10 different PLM system or CAD/CAM systems. We want to have one visualization layer that can take data from all of those and make it available widely, whether it's to end customers or to engineers across the company." Now again, if you have, I think, AutoCAD and you have a $5,000 workstation, you can spin around interactive real-time 3D.

我們看到，在工業方面，客戶說：“嘿，我們有 10 個不同的 PLM 系統或 CAD/CAM 系統。我們希望有一個可視化層，可以從所有這些系統獲取數據並使其廣泛可用，無論是面向最終客戶還是面向整個公司的工程師。”現在，我認為，如果您有 AutoCAD，並且擁有一台價值 5,000 美元的工作站，您就可以實現互動式即時 3D 。

But when you want to be able to show that to people on a web browser or an iPad or a phone, we are the best solution to be able to do that. So in all types of industry, whether that's kind of automotive, aerospace, et cetera, there's a lot of interest in us being the visualization solution in those markets.

但是當您希望能夠透過網頁瀏覽器、iPad 或手機向人們展示這一點時，我們是最好的解決方案。因此，在所有類型的行業中，無論是汽車、航空航太等，人們對我們成為這些市場的視覺化解決方案都很感興趣。

And finally, kind of education and training, especially with AR/VR. I was talking to one large construction company that is using this. So when a worker kind of gets on site, they can put a VR headset on and kind of have a sense of how something is supposed to look. But that could be used for training, especially like high-stakes training, like in a nuclear power facility where you want to train people.

最後是教育和培訓，尤其是 AR/VR。我曾與一家使用此技術的大型建築公司進行過交談。因此，當工人到達現場時，他們可以戴上 VR 耳機，大致了解物體應該是什麼樣子。但這可以用於培訓，特別是高風險培訓，例如在核電廠中對人員進行培訓。

The AR/VR aspect of that's pretty interesting. I think with the launch of the Vision Pro, I know people talk about it a lot, some of the consumer use cases. But we're excited to work with Apple on some of the industry's use cases around it. So those would be 3 examples. But again, to emphasize, the reason I'm so excited about it is it's not like we're a player in this.

它的 AR/VR 方面非常有趣。我認為隨著 Vision Pro 的推出，人們對它進行了大量討論，並討論了它的一些消費者使用案例。但我們很高興能與蘋果就該技術的一些產業用例展開合作。以上就是 3 個例子。但是我再次強調，我對此感到如此興奮的原因是，我們並不是其中的參與者。

We're about the only player who can do real-time interactive 3D on lighter-weight devices like web browsers, iPads and phones. And that's why I think there's so much interest from enterprises in us for those types of use cases. And obviously, as we have more Digital Twins in the world in general, whether it's kind of products and supply chains are more kind of digitally connected, it just creates more and more opportunity for us.

我們是唯一一家能夠在網路瀏覽器、iPad 和手機等輕量級設備上實現即時互動式 3D 的廠商。這就是為什麼我認為企業對這些類型的用例如此感興趣。顯然，隨著世界上數位孿生的增多，無論是產品還是供應鏈都更加數位化地連接，這為我們創造了越來越多的機會。

Great. And then secondly, on the Grow side, I think it's been addressed a little bit already in the Q&A that there's a pretty big disparity between a public competitor and how fast they're growing their ads network versus what Grow has been doing recently.

偉大的。其次，就 Grow 方面而言，我認為在問答環節中已經提到了一些問題，即與 Grow 最近的廣告網絡發展速度相比，公開競爭對手之間存在很大差距。

But it strikes me that it's actually a very big opportunity for Grow to catch up. So I guess, are there specific investments or go-to-market strategies that you're seeing have changed in the competitive landscape? Maybe new technology that you're specifically focused on to try to close that gap that you would call out?

但我發現，這對 Grow 來說其實是個非常大的追趕機會。所以我想問一下，您是否看到競爭格局中特定的投資或市場進入策略發生了變化？也許您特別關注的新技術是為了嘗試縮小您所指出的差距？

Yes, I mean, I'll start a little bit. So the answer is simply yes. There's a lot of incremental investment in technology, both in our data stack and our data manipulation capabilities. There's investments in our product suite to make sure that we are best getting the data that's most helpful to help our Monetization customers kind of increase their effectiveness at data science.

是的，我的意思是，我會開始一點點。所以答案是肯定的。我們在技術方面進行了大量的增量投資，包括資料堆疊和資料處理能力。我們對產品套件進行了投資，以確保我們能夠獲得最有用的數據，幫助我們的貨幣化客戶提高其數據科學的效率。

Those investments, I will say, those are incremental dollars investment. But as we looked at bringing the -- or completing the merger of ironSource and Unity, rather than dropping some of those synergies to the bottom line, we've told those teams to reinvest those synergies to be able to fund a much higher -- a faster-feature velocity to both close gaps and take some leadership in those areas.

我想說的是，這些投資是增量美元投資。但是，當我們考慮實現或完成 ironSource 與 Unity 的合併時，我們並沒有將其中一些協同效應犧牲在利潤上，而是告訴這些團隊重新投資這些協同效應，以便能夠資助更快的功能開發速度，以縮小差距並在這些領域佔據領導地位。

I agree with you. I think there's a lot of opportunity there. What I hear over and over from our customers is, "Hey, we want to have multiple ad networks. That is good for us long term." So our customers really, really, really want to see us win in this space, and -- so which also gives me confidence that there's a real desire to see us continue to improve in the space and a desire to work with us as we go forward.

我同意你的看法。我認為那裡有很多機會。我一次又一次地聽到客戶說：“嘿，我們想擁有多個廣告網絡。這對我們的長遠發展有好處。”因此，我們的客戶真的非常希望看到我們在這個領域取得成功，這也讓我相信，他們真正希望看到我們在這個領域繼續進步，並希望在我們前進的過程中與我們合作。

Great. So last question is Jonathan Kees from Daiwa.

偉大的。最後一個問題是來自 Daiwa 的 Jonathan Kees。

Guys, can you hear me?

夥伴們，你們聽得到我的聲音嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Very well.

非常好。

Okay. Great. I'll keep mine simple. In the previous call, you talked about looking for the right KPIs and measuring going forward from that. Have -- can you talk about in terms of what you've agreed to in terms of what you think would be better KPIs? Are we still looking at like previous metrics, like over 100,000 -- how many $100,000 customers? The number of customers over $100,000 yearly revenues, a dollar-based net expansion rate? Or are those separate metrics that will still be given no matter what?

好的。偉大的。我會保持簡單。在先前的通話中，您談到了尋找正確的 KPI 並據此進行衡量。您能否談談您認為您同意的更好的 KPI 是什麼？我們是否仍在關注先前的指標，例如超過 100,000——有多少個 100,000 美元的客戶？年收入超過10萬美元的客戶數量，基於美元的淨擴張率？或者說，無論怎樣，這些都是單獨的指標嗎？

Yes, I think there are several -- go ahead, Jim. It seems that you want to...

是的，我認為有幾個——請說，吉姆。看來你想...

No, no, no, go ahead.

不不不，繼續吧。

I think there are several metrics that are important to note that we've shared with you over time. I think that the percentage of our business going to Industries is important, given the size of the opportunity that we've discussed and Jim has talked extensively. I think the number of customers and net expansion rate are good indications. Obviously, it's a tricky number because it's total company. So it's not as indicative.

我認為有幾個重要的指標值得注意，我們已經與您分享這些指標了。我認為，考慮到我們討論過的機會規模以及吉姆廣泛談論的內容，我們的業務流向工業領域的百分比非常重要。我認為客戶數量和淨擴張率是一個很好的指標。顯然，這是一個棘手的數字，因為它是整個公司的數字。因此它並不那麼具有指示性。

I think we've consistently also talked about the market share. How many -- what percentage of the games of the top 1,000 games are made with Unity on both platforms is a good indicator of how engaged the community is. So we'll keep on providing those metrics. And we'll add some more as we continue to make progress across Industries. That would be my view, Jonathan.

我想我們也一直在談論市場佔有率。在兩個平台上排名前 1,000 的遊戲中，有多少百分比是使用 Unity 製作的，這可以很好地表明社群的參與度。因此我們將繼續提供這些指標。隨著我們在各行業不斷取得進展，我們還會添加更多內容。這就是我的看法，喬納森。

Great. Thank you so much for everybody dialing into the call here. We're looking forward to seeing some of you at kind of our upcoming conferences this quarter. Thank you, and have a great day.

偉大的。非常感謝各位來電。我們期待在本季即將召開的會議上見到你們。謝謝您，祝您有愉快的一天。