Unity Software Inc (U) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Unity's Fourth Quarter 2023 and Year-End Earnings Call. My name is Daniel Amir, VP and Head of Investor Relations. After the closing of the market today, we issued our shareholder letter. That material is now available on our website at investors.unity.com. Today, I'm joined by Jim Whitehurst, our Interim CEO; and by Luis Visoso, our CFO.

歡迎參加 Unity 2023 年第四季和年終收益電話會議。我是丹尼爾‧阿米爾，副總裁兼投資人關係主管。今天收盤後，我們發布了股東信。該資料現已在我們的網站 Investors.unity.com 上提供。今天，我們的臨時執行長吉姆懷特赫斯特 (Jim Whitehurst) 也加入了我的行列。以及我們的財務長路易斯·維索索（Luis Visoso）。

But before we begin, I want to note that today's discussion contains forward-looking statements including statements about goals, business outlook, industry trends, market opportunities, expectations for future financial performance and similar items, all of which are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. And you can find more information about these risks and uncertainties in the Risk Factors section of our filing at sec.gov. Actual results may differ, and we take no obligation to revise or update any forward-looking statements.

但在我們開始之前，我想指出，今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關目標、業務前景、行業趨勢、市場機會、對未來財務業績的預期和類似項目的陳述，所有這些都受到風險、不確定性和風險的影響。假設。您可以在我們提交給 sec.gov 的文件的「風險因素」部分找到有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊。實際結果可能有所不同，我們沒有義務修改或更新任何前瞻性陳述。

Finally, during today's meeting, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP financial measures are in addition to and not a substitute for or superior to measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A full reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP is available in our shareholder letter and on the sec.gov website.

最後，在今天的會議上，我們將討論非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非公認會計原則財務指標是根據公認會計原則編制的財務績效指標的補充，而不是替代或優於這些指標。我們的股東信函和 sec.gov 網站上提供了 GAAP 與非 GAAP 的完整調整表。

Great. What we'll do now is similar like what we've done in previous quarters. We get a number of inbound questions during the quarter, and we will start with two key questions. The first to Jim, and then the second one to Luis.

偉大的。我們現在要做的與前幾季所做的類似。本季我們收到了許多入站問題，我們將從兩個關鍵問題開始。第一個給吉姆，第二個給路易斯。

So the first question is to Jim. After 5 months here, can you give your take on Unity and kind of provide us also an update on the CEO search?

所以第一個問題是問吉姆的。來到這裡 5 個月後，您能否談談您對 Unity 的看法，並為我們提供有關 CEO 搜尋的最新情況？

Sure. Yes, I can't believe it's been almost 5 months. I have to say I'm even more excited now about the opportunity in front of us than I was when I joined. We're obviously in the midst of a reset. But let me spend maybe just a minute talking about why I'm so optimistic and then I'll come back to the CEO search afterwards. So first off, I believe we're making the right interventions to position us to win for our customers, not just today, but for the long term. And let me just quickly hit three of those.

當然。是的，我不敢相信已經過了快 5 個月了。我必須說，我現在對我們面前的機會比我加入時更興奮。我們顯然正處於重置之中。但讓我花一分鐘時間談談為什麼我如此樂觀，然後我會回到執行長的搜尋。因此，首先，我相信我們正在採取正確的干預措施，使我們能夠為客戶贏得勝利，不僅是在今天，而且是長期的。讓我快速擊中其中三個。

So first off, we've substantially focused our portfolio on products. We're confident that we have unique value for our customers and therefore, have permission to win. And we're hearing great feedback. From our games customers, they're seeing the focus in our product road maps and our attentiveness to their needs. And so we're hearing great feedback there. Same on the industry side where not just from what we've been doing in the last few months, but in particular, our focus on repeatable software and the partnership we announced with Capgemini, I've heard from several customers really positive view of that direction around focus. We've also instituted a much leaner cost structure that provides us a healthy profile. And then from there, we can scale in a profitable way. And third, we're in the process of improving our growth performance, specifically our user acquisition through better use of data and stronger models, and I'm very confident you'll see accelerating growth in our Grow business going forward.

首先，我們的產品組合主要集中在產品上。我們相信我們能為客戶帶來獨特的價值，因此我們有能力贏得勝利。我們聽到了很好的回饋。從我們的遊戲客戶那裡，他們看到了我們產品路線圖的重點以及我們對他們需求的關注。所以我們在那裡聽到了很好的回饋。在行業方面也是如此，不僅從我們過去幾個月所做的事情來看，而且特別是我們對可重複軟體的關注以及我們與凱捷宣布的合作夥伴關係，我從一些客戶那裡聽到了非常積極的看法圍繞焦點的方向。我們也建立了更精簡的成本結構，為我們提供了健康的形象。然後從那裡，我們可以以有利可圖的方式進行擴展。第三，我們正在改善我們的成長業績，特別是透過更好地利用數據和更強大的模型來獲取用戶，我非常有信心您會看到我們的 Grow 業務未來加速成長。

The second reason I'm optimistic is that while 2023 was obviously a challenging year for us. We saw some key proof points around the durability of our franchise. Yes. So first off, even in the aftermath of the pricing change, our core subscription business, excluding China, grew 18% in Q4. Put it simply, we are essential to the games industry. And then with industry, it was actually our fastest-growing segment, and I believe we've just gotten started, and we have meaningful growth potential there. And the partnership with Capgemini should even further accelerate growth there. And finally, our engagement with our editor continues to be super, super strong. We saw that at Unite in November, and we plan to exceed our customer expectations with our next releases of the editor through the course of this year.

我樂觀的第二個原因是，雖然 2023 年對我們來說顯然是充滿挑戰的一年。我們看到了有關我們特許經營權持久性的一些關鍵證據。是的。首先，即使在定價變化之後，我們的核心訂閱業務（不包括中國）在第四季仍成長了 18%。簡而言之，我們對遊戲產業至關重要。然後就工業而言，它實際上是我們成長最快的細分市場，我相信我們才剛剛開始，並且我們在那裡擁有有意義的成長潛力。與凱捷的合作將進一步加速該地區的成長。最後，我們與編輯的互動仍然非常非常強烈。我們在 11 月的 Unite 大會上看到了這一點，我們計劃在今年發布的下一個編輯器版本中超越客戶的期望。

And the final reason I'm optimistic is that, obviously, the reset work continues through Q1, it obscures our financial progress, but we expect to see strong financials in the back half of this year. To the second part of the question, I don't have a super long update. The Board continues to conduct a thorough process to make sure we hire the best leader to write the next chapter of Unity's story, and I'm very committed to supporting the Board and the Board's decision.

我樂觀的最後一個原因是，顯然，重置工作將持續到第一季度，它掩蓋了我們的財務進展，但我們預計今年下半年將看到強勁的財務狀況。對於問題的第二部分，我沒有超長的更新。董事會繼續進行徹底的流程，以確保我們聘請最好的領導者來書寫 Unity 故事的下一篇章，並且我非常致力於支持董事會和董事會的決定。

Thank you. Luis, this question is for you. Can you provide additional perspective on the company's direction following the reset?

謝謝。路易斯，這個問題是問你的。您能否對重置後公司的發展方向提供更多看法？

Daniel, thank you. Yes, absolutely. We actually feel very proud of what we've accomplished. We've accomplished a lot in a short period of time, and we believe that, as Jim just said, that this intervention has positioned Unity for success going forward. If you look back at the end of last year, we started a 2-phase company reset that we expect will enable us to sustainably win with both customers and shareholders. The good news is that Phase 1 is mostly behind us. This first phase was all about resetting our portfolio, resetting our cost structure so that we can refocus on our core businesses, the Engine, the Cloud, Monetization while narrowing our investments on new businesses. And as a result, we're focusing on businesses where we believe we can sustainably create value for customers and generate a return for the company.

丹尼爾，謝謝你。是的，一點沒錯。事實上，我們對我們所取得的成就感到非常自豪。我們在短時間內取得了許多成就，我們相信，正如 Jim 剛才所說，這次幹預為 Unity 的成功奠定了基礎。如果你回顧去年年底，我們開始了兩階段的公司重組，我們預期這將使我們能夠持續贏得客戶和股東的青睞。好消息是第一階段已經基本過去了。第一階段的重點是重新調整我們的投資組合、重新調整我們的成本結構，以便我們能夠重新專注於我們的核心業務、引擎、雲端、貨幣化，同時縮小對新業務的投資。因此，我們專注於那些我們相信能夠持續為客戶創造價值並為公司帶來回報的業務。

The unfortunate consequence of this first phase is that we had to let go about 25% of our colleagues. That's super hard. These employees made many, many contributions to Unity and help customers achieve their goals. We thank them for all their work and are really sad to see them go. Now what's exciting is actually the second phase of the reset. This is about reigniting revenue growth with healthy financials. And the good news is that, that starts this year. We expect revenue growth to accelerate in the second half of 2024 and maintain attractive levels of revenue growth thereafter while maintaining and extending our profitability.

第一階段的不幸後果是我們不得不解僱大約 25% 的同事。那太難了。這些員工為 Unity 做了許多許多貢獻，並幫助客戶實現了他們的目標。我們感謝他們所做的一切工作，看到他們離開我們感到非常難過。現在令人興奮的實際上是重置的第二階段。這是為了透過健康的財務狀況重新點燃收入成長。好消息是，從今年開始。我們預計收入成長將在 2024 年下半年加速，並在此後保持有吸引力的收入成長水平，同時保持和擴大我們的獲利能力。

Thank you. So now we go on the second part here for Q&A. (Operator Instructions) So we'll take a couple of seconds here for people to now put in questions.

謝謝。現在我們進入第二部分進行問答。 （操作員說明）因此，我們將在這裡花幾秒鐘的時間讓人們提出問題。

Okay. So the first question comes from Jason Bazinet from Citi.

好的。第一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Jason Bazinet。

I was just wondering if you could unpack a bit just sort of the recast 2023 numbers after the portfolio review. I think the revenues came down $450 million but the EBITDA came down $174 million. And then I tried to read the text to understand if some of the things that you divested were EBITDA loss making, and it said they were, but then in some of the footnotes, there was no real number in there. So can you just talk a little bit about the recast 2023 base and those adjustments?

我只是想知道您是否可以在投資組合審查後解開一些重新調整的 2023 年數字。我認為收入下降了 4.5 億美元，但 EBITDA 下降了 1.74 億美元。然後我試著閱讀文字，了解你剝離的某些東西是否會造成 EBITDA 虧損，它說是，但在一些腳註中，沒有真實的數字。那麼您能簡單談談2023年重鑄基礎和那些調整嗎？

Yes. We know it's not easy to follow all these numbers. So we put a table on our shareholder letter. I think the first thing is, obviously, we had this onetime gain from Weta FX, right? We show that as $99 million in revenue, for example. So you see that in the table, which had a $102 million benefit in EBITDA. So you have to take that into account because that's a onetime gain. The second thing is the portfolio changes that you alluded to, that's $283 million in 2023. Most of that is in Grow, a small portion to be precise, $15 million is within Grow, which is the Luna business. So you have to take that into account that operated at a significant loss, which is why we're exiting these businesses because we could not create a return for us while providing value to our customers.

是的。我們知道要追蹤所有這些數字並不容易。因此，我們在股東信中列出了一個表格。我認為第一件事顯然是，我們從 Weta FX 獲得了一次性的收益，對嗎？例如，我們將其顯示為 9900 萬美元的收入。所以你可以在表中看到，它的 EBITDA 收益為 1.02 億美元。所以你必須考慮到這一點，因為這是一次性的收益。第二件事是你提到的投資組合變化，到2023年將是2.83億美元。其中大部分在Grow，一小部分，準確地說，1500萬美元在Grow，也就是Luna業務。因此，您必須考慮到這一點，即營運時出現重大虧損，這就是我們退出這些業務的原因，因為我們無法在為客戶提供價值的同時創造回報。

We did not quantify that for you because it's not audited, but it's a very significant number that we're getting rid of. And third, you have this customer credits that we explained in the shareholder letter and which we mentioned in the 10-Q last quarter, which was $72 million in revenue and $72 million in EBITDA. So if you really look at the comparable base for '23, you should start with $1.7 billion in revenue and $274 million in EBITDA, and that's what we're building from. Is that good, Jason?

我們沒有為您量化這個數字，因為它沒有經過審計，但我們正在消除這個非常重要的數字。第三，您擁有我們在股東信中解釋的客戶信用，以及我們在上個季度 10 季中提到的客戶信用，其收入為 7,200 萬美元，EBITDA 為 7,200 萬美元。因此，如果你真正考慮一下 23 年的可比基數，你應該從 17 億美元的收入和 2.74 億美元的 EBITDA 開始，這就是我們的基礎。這樣好嗎，傑森？

Yes.

是的。

Thank you. Next question is Dylan Becker from William Blair.

謝謝。下一個問題是威廉·布萊爾的迪倫·貝克爾。

Two if I could squeeze them. Maybe first, a combination for Jim and Luis here. You're kind of nearing the end of the strategic review, wonder how you're thinking about to maybe the earlier point, Luis, on getting rid of some loss-generating businesses, but also kind of catching up investment as we think about kind of doubling down around the core, kind of what's the right way of thinking about kind of the trade-off of the 2? And how that layers into kind of the growth and margin outlook in the business over time?

兩個，如果我能擠壓它們的話。也許首先是吉姆和路易斯的組合。你的策略審查即將結束，路易斯，想知道你是如何考慮之前的一點的，即擺脫一些產生虧損的業務，但也像我們考慮的那樣追趕投資在核心周圍加倍努力，思考兩者之間的權衡的正確方法是什麼？隨著時間的推移，這將如何影響業務的成長和利潤前景？

Yes...

是的...

Well, I'll just start quickly on, look, the core of this, and we try to be consistent all along internally as we've been going through the reset is this is all focused on getting a portfolio where we believe we can win and then making sure that we are appropriately resourcing that portfolio to win. And so was clear internally that this exercise wasn't about optimizing 2024 EBITDA. It was about getting us lean and efficient and fully resourcing the areas we expect to win because ultimately, we believe there is a tremendous amount of growth in the company. So Luis, i think you want to talk a little more about this specifically...

好吧，我將快速開始，看，這的核心，我們在內部一直努力保持一致，因為我們一直在經歷重置，這一切都集中在獲得一個我們相信我們可以獲勝的投資組合然後確保我們為該投資組合提供適當的資源以取得勝利。因此，內部人士很清楚，這項工作並不是為了優化 2024 年 EBITDA。這是為了讓我們精幹、高效，並為我們期望獲勝的領域提供充分的資源，因為最終，我們相信公司將會有巨大的成長。路易斯，我想你想具體談談這個問題...

I totally agree, Jim. Dylan, the way to think about it is we fully funded the priorities that we had in mind, and those are funded to the right levels. And those that we just didn't think we could generate a return for us or for our customers. We totally defunded, being half pregnant, if you wish just doesn't make sense. So that's why we feel confident about our ability to reaccelerate growth because we're funding those things that really matter.

我完全同意，吉姆。迪倫，思考這個問題的方式是，我們為我們所考慮的優先事項提供了充分的資金，而這些資金都達到了正確的水平。以及那些我們認為無法為我們或我們的客戶帶來回報的項目。我們完全取消了資助，半懷孕了，如果你願意的話，那是沒有意義的。這就是為什麼我們對重新加速成長的能力充滿信心，因為我們正在為那些真正重要的事情提供資金。

Okay. Great. Super helpful there. And then maybe one...

好的。偉大的。那裡超級有幫助。然後也許有一個...

I guess what I would say on that, Dylan, just, I mean as we kind of exit the year, I think we're, and generally have our mind, this should be a Rule of 40 company and be that way for quite a while, if that gives you a sense of kind of roughly where we see ourselves.

我想我會對此說些什麼，迪倫，只是，我的意思是，當我們結束這一年時，我認為我們並且總體上有我們的想法，這應該是40 條規則的公司，對於相當多的公司來說都是如此。同時，如果這能讓你大致了解我們自己的情況。

Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Appreciate the color there, Jim. Maybe you mentioned some of the platform investments too and Unity 6 upselling. I guess, how should we think about the pricing and maybe conversion? How you're kind of incentivizing new features within that platform as well? It's probably more of a 2025 kind of type of story, but how that kind of fuels the commentary around kind of accelerating momentum throughout the back half of this year as well and kind of thoughts on Unity 6?

絕對地。是的。好的。欣賞那裡的顏色，吉姆。也許您也提到了一些平台投資和 Unity 6 追加銷售。我想，我們應該如何考慮定價和轉換？您如何激勵平台內的新功能？這可能更像是 2025 年的故事，但這如何引發圍繞今年下半年加速勢頭的評論以及對 Unity 6 的想法？

Well, so I'll start. And frankly, we are resourcing both Unity 6 and Unity 7 because -- well, we won't go too far the details of that, please come to GDC, and you'll hear a lot more detail. So we do think that we are heavily funding our road maps against our core kind of product offering. And we'll talk more about that here in a couple of weeks at GDC. In terms of how we're thinking about kind of pricing against that, you're right, it's mainly a 2025 kind of story. So it really doesn't affect the numbers that you see this year.

好吧，那我就開始吧。坦白說，我們正在為 Unity 6 和 Unity 7 提供資源，因為——好吧，我們不會過多介紹細節，請來到 GDC，您會聽到更多詳細資訊。因此，我們確實認為我們正在為我們的核心產品提供的路線圖提供大量資金。幾週後我們將在 GDC 上詳細討論這一點。就我們如何考慮相應的定價而言，你是對的，這主要是一個 2025 年的故事。所以這確實不會影響你今年看到的數字。

What I will say is we think there is a lot of organic growth in this portfolio. So we're not heavily reliant on just kind of raising price. I do think there's more value we provide in our offering. But when we look at our position in the games industry, when we talk about long-term growth, that has more to do with our current product suite and kind of future offerings we can have more than pricing leverage. But we haven't really kind of laid that out for 2025 and beyond in a way that could give you -- quantify in any stretch.

我要說的是，我們認為這個投資組合有很多有機成長。因此，我們並不嚴重依賴提價。我確實認為我們的產品提供了更多價值。但當我們審視我們在遊戲產業的地位時，當我們談論長期成長時，這更多是與我們當前的產品套件和未來的產品有關，我們可以擁有的不僅僅是定價槓桿。但我們還沒有真正為 2025 年及以後的情況做好準備，讓您能夠在任何時間段內進行量化。

Yes. Dylan, maybe just two points to reinforce some of the things Jim is saying. You saw that our core business, our core subscription business, so that's the Editor, excluding China, is growing 18%. So very healthy levels of growth, and when we look at engagement, so new projects being started. So the engagement with the Editor continues to be very, very healthy. So we're very excited about that. And obviously, there is great interest in all our AI tools from our customers. So they are, they are -- the Muse is now available. So they are using it, and we're happy with the progress we're making, Dylan.

是的。迪倫，也許只有兩點可以強化吉姆所說的一些事情。你看到我們的核心業務，我們的核心訂閱業務，所以這就是編輯，不包括中國，成長了 18%。增長水平非常健康，當我們考慮參與度時，新項目正在啟動。因此，與編輯的互動仍然非常非常健康。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。顯然，我們的客戶對我們所有的人工智慧工具都非常感興趣。所以他們是，他們是——繆斯現在可用了。所以他們正在使用它，我們對我們所取得的進展感到滿意，迪倫。

Great. So our next question is Brian Fitzgerald from Wells Fargo.

偉大的。我們的下一個問題是來自富國銀行的布萊恩·菲茨傑拉德。

In the shareholder letter and maybe just follow on to Dylan's question, you unpack growth reacceleration in the second half of the year. Can you parse that out a little bit? Is that just primarily from run time fees? Is it the release of Unity 6? Or is there something else feeding into that maybe the growth of industries like you talked about?

在股東信中，也許只是迪倫問題的後續部分，你會在下半年看到成長的重新加速。能稍微解析一下嗎？這主要是來自運行時費用嗎？是Unity 6的發布嗎？或者還有其他因素可能會促進像您所說的行業的成長嗎？

Yes. Really, the run time fees does not have an impact in the second half or nothing meaningful. So the reason why we are excited about and confident that we'll see some acceleration is really back-end innovation that we are bringing across all our product lines. Jim talked a little bit about some of the innovation we're bringing on growth to make our products more competitive data, performance, return on ad spending.

是的。確實，運行時間費用對下半年沒有影響或沒有任何意義。因此，我們對看到一些加速感到興奮並充滿信心的原因實際上是我們在所有產品線中引入的後端創新。吉姆談到了我們為實現成長而進行的一些創新，這些創新使我們的產品在數據、效能和廣告支出回報方面更具競爭力。

So we're making a ton of interventions then there so that our business can accelerate. And it's really that. It's the innovation across both businesses, both in games and across industries where we expect to accelerate growth.

因此，我們正在採取大量幹預措施，以便我們的業務能夠加速發展。確實如此。這是我們期望加速成長的跨業務、遊戲和跨行業的創新。

Yes. The only thing I would say I would add is we're in the middle of a reset. And so we were pretty conservative in the first half of the year because, obviously, when we are especially dealing with people, right, that gets to be very distracting. And so we're pretty conservative in the first half of the year. But we just kind of look at kind of the market and where we expect as we go forward is another reason you're seeing that. It's both. We have confidence in the back half, but it's also if you look at first half to back half, there's also an assumption around a little bit more distracting right now that we will get behind this year as we finalize the reset.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，我們正處於重置之中。因此，我們在上半年相當保守，因為顯然，當我們特別與人打交道時，這會非常分散注意力。因此，我們在今年上半年相當保守。但我們只是關注市場的類型，我們對未來的預期是你看到這一點的另一個原因。兩者都是。我們對後半場充滿信心，但如果你從上半場到後半場來看，現在還有一個假設，那就是我們今年將在完成重置後落後。

And it sounds like there's growth in the growth side of the business as well. When you talked a little bit about what's happening sequentially and it being down, was that just kind of a developer discontent with kind of how the real-time run time fees were rolled out? And -- or is it more to what you're talking about, we're going to develop on the tool sets and make the growth side of the business more data-informed, more competitive?

聽起來業務成長方面也在成長。當你談論了一些連續發生的事情並且它正在下降時，這是否只是開發人員對實時運行時間費用的推出方式的不滿？或者更符合您所說的，我們將開發工具集，並使業務成長方面更加數據化、更具競爭力？

Yes. We didn't really see as much of an impact. There was an impact, as you mentioned, but it was not very meaningful in Q4. We are not guiding by segment going into 2024. But yes, you're right, we're expecting an improvement in both businesses throughout the year for the reasons that Jim mentioned.

是的。我們並沒有真正看到那麼大的影響。正如您所提到的，確實有影響，但在第四季度影響不大。進入 2024 年，我們不會按細分市場進行指導。但是，是的，你是對的，出於吉姆提到的原因，我們預計這兩項業務全年都會有所改善。

I guess a little bit more on that. Just to be blunt, last year, we were doing a lot of kind of integration with ironSource and Unity. And frankly, when that happens, you become maybe a little less focused on driving feature velocity. And so I do think that level of distraction kind of put us a bit behind. That's now behind us. We have the teams integrated and we have a plan that I think we're very confident in, closes any competitive gaps that we have. So -- and that's somewhat reflected in the growth numbers in the back half of the year.

我想對此還有更多的了解。坦白說，去年我們與ironSource 和Unity 進行了許多整合。坦白說，當這種情況發生時，你可能會不太關注推動功能速度。所以我確實認為這種程度的分心讓我們有點落後了。現在已經在我們身後了。我們有整合的團隊，我們有一個我認為我們非常有信心的計劃，可以縮小我們的競爭差距。所以——這在某種程度上反映在今年下半年的成長數據。

Great. Our next question is Tim Nollen from Macquarie.

偉大的。我們的下一個問題是來自麥格理的蒂姆·諾倫。

Great. Actually, perfect segue into my question from the last bit there, which is about the ironSource integration. Could you just talk a little bit more about I guess what was not an immediate integration when the acquisition was made? Now it sounds like you feel like you have completed the acquisition. I've noticed some fairly big name departures from ironSource. If there's anything you could talk about that? And then could you just clarify about the $72 million in credits. Just -- is this something that was done to roll people on to the LevelPlay platform back in the day? And then why is that being unwound now?

偉大的。實際上，從最後一點完美地過渡到我的問題，這是關於ironSource整合的。您能否再多談談我猜收購完成後沒有立即整合的情況？現在聽起來你感覺你已經完成了收購。我注意到一些相當大的名字與ironSource不同。如果有什麼可以談的嗎？那麼您能否澄清一下 7200 萬美元的抵免額。只是——這是當年為了讓人們進入 LevelPlay 平台而做的事情嗎？那為什麼現在又要解開呢？

Well, let me maybe start on the work stuff. I mean, naturally, when two companies come together, first off, you need to make sure that you're retaining the right people, you have a continuity of business and then over time, you bring the pieces together. And so we were working on that through the course of last year, and that kind of culminated ultimately without, say, kind of a full integration at the end of the year as we kind of came into January as part of our overall restructuring. So we're a little bit more of a functional organization. So for the first time, we have one owner of Commercial or kind of a CRO for the Ads business across both Unity and ironSource.

好吧，讓我開始處理工作吧。我的意思是，自然地，當兩家公司合併時，首先，你需要確保留住合適的人才，保持業務連續性，然後隨著時間的推移，你將各個部分整合在一起。因此，我們去年一直在努力實現這一目標，最終達到了頂峰，但沒有在年底進行全面整合，因為我們進入一月份作為整體重組的一部分。所以我們比較像是職能型組織。因此，我們第一次在 Unity 和ironSource 上擁有了一個廣告業務的商業所有者或某種 CRO。

And we have one leader of product and technology across both. So we frankly had 2 data science teams until January. We now have one. We had 2 different kind of data engineering teams. We now have one. And so naturally, just how you think about sequencing and acquisitions kind of takes a period of time. And so we are there now, and we feel like these single teams and singular focus will serve us well. As part of that naturally, the founders who ran kind of ironSource were kind of ready to step back and create room for people within ironSource to come in and take roles. And so as part of that whole integration, I think they decided it was time to step back. I still talk to many of those leaders every week. They're heavily engaged and care about the success obviously, of their baby and ironSource but more broadly for Unity as we go forward.

我們在這兩方面都有一位產品和技術領導者。所以坦白說，直到一月我們都有兩個數據科學團隊。我們現在有一個。我們有兩個不同類型的資料工程團隊。我們現在有一個。很自然地，你如何思考排序和收購需要一段時間。所以我們現在就在那裡，我們覺得這些單一的團隊和單一的焦點將為我們提供良好的服務。作為其中的一部分，運行ironSource 的創始人自然準備退後一步，為ironSource 內部的人員加入並擔任角色創造空間。因此，作為整個整合的一部分，我認為他們決定是時候退後一步了。我仍然每週與其中許多領導人交談。他們非常投入並關心他們的孩子和ironSource 的成功，但更廣泛的是，隨著我們的前進，他們也關心Unity 的成功。

Yes. To the second part of your question, Tim. So we've communicated this for some time now, there were some incentives that ironSource provided to their customers before the merger, right? And some of those integration fees were returned to us, and we recorded those as revenue throughout the year. So what we wanted to make sure is that you all had all transparency in what those amounts were. So we included that in the table on where we show a revenue by quarter for Grow. So most of the difference between that and our reported number is the integration fees that were returned. The only difference is $15 million from Luna which basically spreads consistent throughout the year.

是的。關於你問題的第二部分，提姆。我們已經對此進行了一段時間的溝通，ironSource 在合併之前向其客戶提供了一些激勵措施，對吧？其中一些整合費用被返還給我們，我們將其記錄為全年收入。因此，我們希望確保大家對這些金額的了解完全透明。因此，我們將其包含在按季度顯示 Grow 收入的表格中。因此，該數字與我們報告的數字之間的大部分差異是退回的整合費用。唯一的區別是 Luna 的 1500 萬美元，全年基本保持一致。

So you can assume $3 million to $4 million per quarter. But everything else is related to the integration fees that were returned to Unity. So we're just giving you that exact number so you have it. It's in the base.

因此，您可以假設每季 300 萬至 400 萬美元。但其他一切都與返還給 Unity 的整合費有關。所以我們只是給你確切的數字，這樣你就可以知道了。它在基地裡。

So next question is from Michael Funk at Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的麥可‧芬克。

So a couple if I could. Looking at the revenue and the margin guidance for the year, I think you said 25% plus EBITDA margin exiting fourth quarter. I mean it seems like trajectory that could be predicted throughout the year would imply a higher margin by fourth quarter. So just curious if that is maybe the head count reduction benefit going away in the second half or reinvesting back into the business? So the first question is the -- on the EBITDA margin.

如果可以的話，一對。看看今年的收入和利潤指引，我認為您說過第四季度的 EBITDA 利潤率為 25%。我的意思是，全年可以預測的軌跡似乎意味著第四季度的利潤率會更高。所以只是好奇這是否可能是下半年員工人數減少的好處消失或重新投資回業務？所以第一個問題是 EBITDA 利潤率。

Yes. Michael, we'll be including our guidance, Jim mentioned. We also want to make sure that we're properly investing back as back to one of the first questions during the meeting. So we're hitting the right balance. We want to be a Rule of 40 company, and we think we can be close to that towards the end of the year. So that's what we're trying to achieve. And we clearly see a path to get there. But we're driving -- as you've seen, we're driving our margins and cost efficiencies hard, but never at the expense of growth.

是的。 「邁克爾，我們將提供我們的指導，」吉姆說。我們還想確保我們正確地投資回會議期間的第一個問題。所以我們正在達到正確的平衡。我們希望成為 40 條規則的公司，我們認為我們可以在今年年底接近這一目標。這就是我們正在努力實現的目標。我們清楚地看到了實現這一目標的道路。但我們正在努力——正如你所看到的，我們正在努力提高我們的利潤率和成本效率，但絕不以犧牲成長為代價。

Okay. So the comment was, hopefully, Rule of 40 company by the end of the year. Was that correct?

好的。因此，希望該評論能在年底前成為 40 家公司的規則。這是正確的嗎？

Yes, that would be our target.

是的，那將是我們的目標。

Okay. And then the last one, if I could, on the competitive environment, you mentioned in the shareholder letter competitive intensity impacting the business. Can you expand on that comment, please?

好的。最後一個，如果可以的話，關於競爭環境，您在股東信中提到了影響業務的競爭強度。能詳細闡述一下該評論嗎？

Yes. I mean on the Grow side, we're just seeing a more intense competitive environment, right? And you've all seen some of our competitors report numbers. Some of them have been better than ours. So it's just been a more intense and some of the innovation they've brought to the market has been strong. And as Jim said, we were busy doing integration work, and now we have very -- we know what our gaps are, and we have aggressive plans to close those in the very short period of time. So we're working towards. So that's what we referred to in the note.

是的。我的意思是，在成長方面，我們只是看到了更激烈的競爭環境，對嗎？你們都已經看到了我們的一些競爭對手的報告數字。他們中的一些人比我們的更好。因此，這變得更加激烈，他們為市場帶來的一些創新也很強大。正如吉姆所說，我們正忙於進行整合工作，現在我們非常了解我們的差距是什麼，並且我們有積極的計劃來在很短的時間內彌補這些差距。所以我們正在努力。這就是我們在註釋中提到的內容。

Our next question is from Chris Kuntarich at UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Chris Kuntarich。

Great. Maybe the first one on the multiplayer business. You guys talked about shifting the service to orchestration and managed solutions. Can you just unpack this a bit? And then maybe just how we should be thinking about this margin profile going forward?

偉大的。也許是多人遊戲領域的第一個。你們談到了將服務轉向編排和託管解決方案。你能稍微解壓一下嗎？那麼也許我們該如何考慮未來的利潤狀況呢？

Yes. If you think about our Multiplayer business, really, we had two things. One is kind of think about the hardware component of that, and that is, that's just not our strength. That's not a business where we can generate a good return. And that's not a business where we have the scale to offer competitive prices to our customers. So it's exactly what we're not trying to do. Having said that, what we offer a unique value is in the orchestration layer of that hosting of the game, multiplayer -- for the multiplayer games. So we're going to continue to be in that business. That's a software business. That's a profitable business. That's something that we uniquely can provide to our customers. And we're getting out of the hardware business because, as I just said, we're just not -- that's not unique for Unity to provide value to our customers.

是的。如果你考慮一下我們的多人遊戲業務，實際上，我們有兩件事。一是考慮其中的硬體組件，也就是說，這不是我們的強項。這不是一個我們能夠產生良好回報的業務。我們沒有足夠的規模為客戶提供有競爭力的價格。所以這正是我們不想做的事。話雖如此，我們提供的獨特價值在於遊戲、多人遊戲託管的編排層——對於多人遊戲。所以我們將繼續從事這項業務。那是軟體業務。這是一項有利可圖的生意。這是我們能夠為客戶提供的獨特服務。我們正在退出硬體業務，因為正如我剛才所說，我們並不是 Unity 唯一為客戶提供價值的業務。

And maybe just one follow-up on China. I know you had talked about growth ex China, within the Engine. But just curious, we've heard it across the space. The Chinese gaming ad spend has been a source of outperformance. Can you just talk a bit about how this performed in 4Q for you and just kind of the opportunity for Unity on a go-forward basis?

也許只是針對中國的一項後續行動。我知道您曾在引擎內部談論中國以外的成長。但只是好奇，我們在整個太空中都聽過這種聲音。中國的遊戲廣告支出一直是表現優異的一個原因。您能否簡單談談這在第四季的表現以及 Unity 未來發展的機會？

Yes. So you have to think about China in different ways, right? The Create business is mostly our customers in China developing games in China. That business has been tough. As we know, there are some restrictions in the Chinese market, and that continues to impact our growth in Create specifically. On Grow, our growth in China, which reflects two things, again, it reflects business in China, but also Chinese-based customers doing business outside of China that has been performing well just like any other region. So we've been seeing good growth there.

是的。所以你必須以不同的方式思考中國，對吧？ Create業務主要是我們在中國的客戶在中國開發遊戲。那個生意一直很辛苦。據我們所知，中國市場存在一些限制，這將繼續影響我們在 Create 方面的成長。關於成長，我們在中國的成長反映了兩件事，它反映了在中國的業務，也反映了在中國境外開展業務的中國客戶，這些客戶與其他地區一樣表現良好。所以我們在那裡看到了良好的成長。

Great. Next question is Andrew Boone from JMP Securities.

偉大的。下一個問題是來自 JMP 證券的安德魯·布恩 (Andrew Boone)。

Can you talk about the slimming down of the portfolio and whether that changes the trajectory at all for nongaming, your industries business? And then for my second, how do we think about professional services going the Capgemini partnership. Is there any change in strategy or anything else we should note there?

您能否談談投資組合的精簡以及這是否會改變您所在行業的非博彩業務的發展軌跡？接下來是我的第二個問題，我們如何看待凱捷合作關係的專業服務。策略上有什麼變化或有什麼需要注意的嗎？

Yes. Maybe I'll start there. So like, look, obviously, revenue goes down because professional services is a lot of dollars. So, but we -- that's why we kind of showed the reset in the numbers. Our strategy, I come from an enterprise background, I have been blown away at how much interest there is. And frankly, how much patience there has been from our customers kind of with us to get this right because frankly, there is no other solution that's anywhere near as compelling as what we can offer. And that goes from visualization. So how do you connect with end customers with a richer view of product to configuration through distribution, all the way back to, obviously, the design things?

是的。也許我會從那裡開始。所以，看起來，顯然，收入下降了，因為專業服務需要很多美元。所以，但這就是為什麼我們在數字中顯示了重置。我們的策略，我來自企業背景，我對有如此多的興趣感到震驚。坦白說，我們的客戶對我們有多大的耐心才能做到這一點，因為坦白說，沒有其他解決方案比我們所能提供的更有吸引力。這來自可視化。那麼，如何透過分銷對最終客戶提供更豐富的產品配置視圖，一直回到設計方面呢？

There's a whole education and training component with AR/VR. But one of the things you can realize as I talk through all of these things, visualization is a component of a solution. Whether that is a way that you're interacting with your customers in a richer way or whether that is building education content, right? So as you will often see with infrastructure software companies, you're very much partner-led in how you go to market, because building those solutions is not our forte. And so we've made a decision to be a software company and double down our road maps on delivering excellent software and working with partners like Capgemini, who can take that software and build solutions, and that's their business. So I feel highly confident that by focusing on software and building partnerships with people who frankly, have more scale and expertise on delivering in solutions. We will substantially accelerate that business. I'm super excited about it.

AR/VR 包含完整的教育和培訓部分。但當我談論所有這些事情時，您可以意識到一件事，而視覺化是解決方案的組成部分。這是否是您與客戶以更豐富的方式互動的方式，或者是否是建立教育內容的方式，對吧？因此，正如您在基礎設施軟體公司中經常看到的那樣，您在進入市場的方式上很大程度上是由合作夥伴主導的，因為建立這些解決方案不是我們的強項。因此，我們決定成為一家軟體公司，並加倍努力提供卓越的軟體，並與凱捷等合作夥伴合作，後者可以利用該軟體並建立解決方案，這就是他們的業務。因此，我非常有信心，透過專注於軟體並與坦率地說，在交付解決方案方面擁有更大規模和專業知識的人建立合作夥伴關係。我們將大幅加速該業務。我對此感到非常興奮。

Obviously, higher margin profile because it's a software business. But again, if you look at infrastructure software companies, if you think about visualization and what we do as a component of infrastructure, virtually all software companies that do that are heavily partner-led. And so what you're seeing is a strategy for us to move in that direction. We'll get much better distribution. I think we get much better outcomes by working with people like Capgemini, who are experts in delivering solutions. And we'll just get a lot more scale.

顯然，利潤率更高，因為它是軟體業務。但同樣，如果你看看基礎設施軟體公司，如果你考慮視覺化以及我們作為基礎設施組成部分所做的事情，幾乎所有這樣做的軟體公司都是由合作夥伴主導的。所以你看到的是我們朝這個方向前進的策略。我們將獲得更好的分配。我認為，透過與凱捷這樣的解決方案專家合作，我們可以獲得更好的成果。我們將會獲得更大的規模。

Capgemini can bring a lot more people to this than we certainly can in Professional Services. So we are -- I am absolutely convinced the company is absolutely convinced that, that we call it industries, but selling into non-gaming enterprise customers is a tremendous opportunity for us going forward. But again, we want to recognize we're a software company, and we're going to build an efficient, effective kind of go-to-market in a way that, that infrastructure is turning to solutions for our customers. And Capgemini is part of that. And again, talking to some of our customers, they're really excited about it because I think they know that we're better at building interactive 3D software, not necessarily building their industry vertical solutions out of that.

凱捷可以為這方面帶來比我們專業服務領域更多的人才。所以我們——我絕對相信該公司絕對相信，我們稱之為行業，但向非遊戲企業客戶銷售對我們來說是一個巨大的機會。但同樣，我們想認識到我們是一家軟體公司，我們將建立一種高效、有效的市場進入方式，使基礎設施轉變為為我們的客戶提供解決方案。凱捷是其中的一部分。再說一次，在與我們的一些客戶交談時，他們對此感到非常興奮，因為我認為他們知道我們更擅長構建互動式 3D 軟體，而不一定以此為基礎構建他們的行業垂直解決方案。

So next question is Matthew Cost from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題是來自摩根士丹利的馬修·科斯特。

Maybe I'll just start by following up on industries. I think that you said in the opening paragraph of the shareholder letter that you think it can be a bigger business than gaming. So I guess, are there specific use cases or industry verticals that you're seeing really strong uptake in that you feel you can have that level of confidence in it that it can get from I think you said 23% of the subscription business to the majority of it over time? And then I have a follow-up.

也許我會從跟進行業開始。我認為您在股東信的開頭段落中說過，您認為它可以成為比遊戲更大的業務。所以我想，是否有特定的用例或行業垂直領域，您看到了非常強烈的採用，因為您覺得您可以對它有一定程度的信心，我認為您說 23% 的訂閱業務來自大部分隨著時間的推移？然後我有一個後續行動。

Yes. Well, I will start, and maybe I'll just give you a little bit of color on a couple of the use cases. And I'm going to try to take names out of it because, honestly, I'm not sure who we actually have commitments to be able to use their names. So -- and let me just do several real quick. So one is there are a number of luxury retailers who don't necessarily have all of their inventory in every single store that they have, but they want to have rich experiences so people can see in detail their products. And this goes from jewelry to clothing, and so we have multiple customers who are -- who use our technology to be able to have iPads in the store where you can have immersive real time, so you can spin around the product, you can zoom in, you can look at it closely.

是的。好吧，我將開始，也許我只會為您提供一些關於幾個用例的資訊。我將嘗試從中刪除名字，因為說實話，我不確定我們實際上有誰能夠使用他們的名字。那麼——讓我快速做幾件事。因此，有許多奢侈品零售商不一定在每家商店都有所有庫存，但他們希望擁有豐富的體驗，以便人們可以詳細了解他們的產品。從珠寶到服裝，我們有很多客戶，他們使用我們的技術，可以在商店裡使用 iPad，在那裡你可以享受身臨其境的實時體驗，這樣你就可以圍繞產品旋轉，可以縮放中，你可以仔細看看。

And according to these customers, there's no other way to do it in a performant way on an iPad. I know that sounds simple. But again, to have a real-time engine that's efficient enough that somebody can spin it around in real time, zoom in, it's just -- we are the best way to do that. So there's a whole series of, I call it, luxury retailers who see that. Obviously, that can go beyond luxury retail. We're seeing on the industrial side, customers saying, hey, we have 10 different PLM system or CAD/CAM systems. We want to have one visualization layer that can take data from all of those and make it available widely, whether it's to end customers or to engineers across the company.

根據這些客戶的說法，沒有其他方法可以在 iPad 上以高效能的方式完成此操作。我知道這聽起來很簡單。但同樣，要有一個足夠高效的即時引擎，讓人們可以即時旋轉、放大，我們是做到這一點的最佳方法。因此，一系列的奢侈品零售商都看到了這一點。顯然，這不僅限於奢侈品零售。我們在工業方面看到，客戶說，嘿，我們有 10 個不同的 PLM 系統或 CAD/CAM 系統。我們希望擁有一個視覺化層，可以從所有這些數據中獲取數據並使其廣泛可用，無論是最終客戶還是整個公司的工程師。

Now again, if you have, I think, AutoCAD and you have a $5,000 workstation, you can spin around interactive real-time 3D. But when you want to be able to show that to people on a web browser or an iPad or a phone, we are the best solution to be able to do that. So in all types of industry, whether that's kind of automotive, aerospace, et cetera, there's a lot of interest in us being the visualization solution in those markets. And finally, kind of education and training, especially with AR/VR, I was talking to one large construction company that is using this. So when a worker kind of gets on site, they can put a VR headset on and kind of have a sense of how something is supposed to look. But that could be used for training, especially like high stakes training like in a nuclear power facility where you want to train people. The AR/VR aspect of that's pretty interesting. I think with the launch of the Vision Pro. I know people talk about it a lot for some of the consumer use cases, but we're excited to work with Apple on some of the industry's use cases around it. So those would be three examples.

現在，我想，如果您有 AutoCAD 並且有一個 5,000 美元的工作站，您就可以圍繞互動式即時 3D 進行旋轉。但是，當您希望能夠透過網頁瀏覽器、iPad 或手機向人們展示這一點時，我們是能夠做到這一點的最佳解決方案。因此，在所有類型的行業中，無論是汽車、航空航太等，人們對我們作為這些市場的視覺化解決方案很感興趣。最後，是一種教育和培訓，特別是 AR/VR 方面的教育和培訓，我正在與一家正在使用該技術的大型建築公司進行交談。因此，當工作人員到達現場時，他們可以戴上 VR 耳機，並了解某物應該是什麼樣子。但這可以用於培訓，特別是像在核電廠那樣的高風險培訓，你想在那裡培訓人員。 AR/VR 方面非常有趣。我認為隨著 Vision Pro 的推出。我知道人們經常談論一些消費者用例，但我們很高興能與 Apple 就圍繞它的一些行業用例進行合作。這就是三個例子。

But again, to emphasize, the reason I'm so excited about it is it's not like we're a player in this. We're about the only player who can do real-time interactive 3D on lighter-weight devices like web browsers, iPads and phones. And that's why I think there's so much interest from enterprises in us for those types of use cases. And obviously, as we have more Digital Twins in the world in general, whether it's kind of products and supply chains are more kind of digitally connected. It just creates more and more opportunity for us.

但再次強調，我對此如此興奮的原因是我們並不是這方面的參與者。我們是唯一一家能夠在網路瀏覽器、iPad 和手機等輕量級設備上進行即時互動式 3D 遊戲的玩家。這就是為什麼我認為企業對我們這些類型的用例非常感興趣。顯然，隨著我們在世界上擁有更多的數位孿生，無論是產品還是供應鏈都更加數位化連接。它只是為我們創造了越來越多的機會。

Great. And then secondly, on the growth side, I think it's been addressed a little bit already in the Q&A that there's a pretty big disparity between public competitor and how fast they're growing their ads network versus what Grow been doing recently. But it strikes me that it's actually a very big opportunity for Grow to catch up. So I guess, are there specific investments or go-to-market strategies that you're seeing have changed in the competitive landscape? Maybe new technology that you're specifically focused on to try to close that gap that you would call out?

偉大的。其次，在成長方面，我認為在問答中已經解決了一點，即公共競爭對手之間以及他們廣告網絡增長速度與 Grow 最近所做的事情之間存在相當大的差異。但令我震驚的是，這實際上是 Grow 迎頭趕上的一個非常好的機會。所以我想，您認為競爭格局中是否有特定的投資或進入市場策略已經改變了？也許您特別關注的新技術是為了縮小您所指出的差距？

Yes. I mean I'll start a little bit. So the answer is simply, yes, there's a lot of incremental investment in technology, both in our data stack and our data manipulation capabilities. There's investments in our product suite to make sure that we are best getting the data that's most helpful to help our monetization customers kind of increase their effectiveness at data science. Those investments, I will say, those are incremental dollars investment. But as we looked at bringing the -- or completing the merger of ironSource and Unity rather than dropping some of those synergies to the bottom line, we've told those teams to reinvest those synergies to be able to fund a much higher -- faster feature velocity to both close gaps and take some leadership in those areas. I agree with you. I think there's a lot of opportunity there.

是的。我的意思是我會開始一點點。所以答案很簡單，是的，在技術方面有大量增量投資，無論是在我們的資料堆疊還是資料操作能力方面。我們對產品套件進行了投資，以確保我們能夠最好地獲得最有幫助的數據，以幫助我們的貨幣化客戶提高他們在數據科學方面的效率。我想說，這些投資就是增量美元投資。但是，當我們考慮實現ironSource 和Unity 的合併，而不是將其中一些協同效應降到最低限度時，我們告訴這些團隊對這些協同效應進行再投資，以便能夠更快地為更高的資金提供資金。其特點是快速縮小差距並在這些領域佔據一定的領導地位。我同意你的看法。我認為那裡有很多機會。

What I hear over and over from our customers is, "Hey, we want to have multiple ad networks. That is good for us long term" So our customers really, really, really want to see us win in this space. And so which also gives me confidence that there's a real desire to see us continue to improve in the space and a desire to work with us as we go forward.

我從客戶那裡一遍又一遍地聽到的是，“嘿，我們希望擁有多個廣告網絡。這對我們的長期發展有好處”，所以我們的客戶真的、真的、真的希望看到我們在這個領域獲勝。因此，這也讓我相信，人們真正渴望看到我們在這個領域繼續改進，並渴望在我們前進的過程中與我們合作。

Great. So last question is Jonathan Kees from Daiwa.

偉大的。最後一個問題是來自 Daiwa 的 Jonathan Kees。

Guys, can you hear me?

夥計們，你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes, very well.

是的，很好。

Okay. Great. I'll keep mine simple. In the previous call, you talked about looking for the right KPIs and measuring going forward from that. Have -- can you talk about in terms of what you've agreed to in terms of what you think would be better KPIs? Are we still looking at like previous metrics like over 100,000 -- how many 100,000 customers. The number of customers over 100,000 yearly revenues, a dollar-based net expansion rate? Or are those separate metrics that will still be given no matter what?

好的。偉大的。我會保持簡單。在上一次電話會議中，您談到了尋找正確的 KPI 並據此衡量未來的發展。您能否談談您已經同意的、您認為更好的 KPI？我們是否還在關注先前的指標，例如超過 100,000 個——有多少 100,000 個客戶。年收入超過10萬的客戶數量，以美元為基礎的淨擴張率？或者無論如何，這些單獨的指標仍然會給出？

Yes, I think there are several -- go ahead, Jim. Seem that you want to...

是的，我認為有幾個——繼續吧，吉姆。看來你想...

No, no, go ahead.

不，不，繼續吧。

I think there are several metrics that are important to note that we've shared with you over time. I think that the percentage of our business going to the industries is important given the size of the opportunity that we've discussed and Jim has talked extensively. I think the number of customers and net expansion rate are good indications. Obviously, it's a tricky number because it's a total company. So it's not as indicative. I think we've consistently also talked about the market share. How many -- what percentage of the games of the top 1,000 games are made with Unity on both platforms is a good indicator of how engaged the community is? So we'll keep on providing those metrics. And we'll add some more as we continue to make progress across industries. That would be my view, Jonathan.

我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們與您分享了一些值得注意的重要指標。我認為，考慮到我們已經討論過的機會的規模以及吉姆已經廣泛談論的機會，我們的業務進入行業的百分比很重要。我認為客戶數量和淨擴張率是很好的指標。顯然，這是一個棘手的數字，因為它是一家完整的公司。所以它不具有指示性。我認為我們也一直在談論市場份額。前 1,000 名的遊戲中有多少是在兩個平台上使用 Unity 製作的，這可以很好地表明社群的參與度嗎？因此，我們將繼續提供這些指標。隨著我們繼續在各行業取得進展，我們將添加更多內容。這就是我的觀點，喬納森。

Great. Thank you so much for everybody dialing into the call here. We're looking forward to seeing some of you at kind of our upcoming conferences this quarter. Thank you, and have a great day.

偉大的。非常感謝大家撥這裡的電話。我們期待在本季即將舉行的會議上見到你們。謝謝您，祝您有美好的一天。