Unity Software Inc (U) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to Unity's First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. My name is Daniel Amir, VP and Head of Investor Relations. After the closing of the market today, we issued our shareholder letter. That material is now available on our website at investors.unity.com. Today, I'm joined by Jim Whitehurst, our interim CEO; and by Luis Visoso, our CFO.

歡迎參加 Unity 2024 年第一季財報電話會議。我是副總裁兼投資者關係主管 Daniel Amir。今天股市收盤後，我們發布了致股東信。該信函現已發佈在公司網站 investors.unity.com 上。今天與我一同出席會議的還有我們的臨時執行長 Jim Whitehurst 和財務長 Luis Visoso。

But before we begin, I want to note that today's discussion contains forward-looking statements, including statements about goals, business outlook, industry trends, market opportunities, expectations for future financial performance and similar items, all of which are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. And you can find more information about these risks and uncertainties in the Risk Factors section of our filings at sec.gov.

但在開始之前，我想指出，今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述，包括關於目標、業務展望、行業趨勢、市場機會、未來財務業績預期以及類似事項的陳述，所有這些都受到風險、不確定性和假設的影響。您可以在 sec.gov 網站上我們提交的文件的「風險因素」部分找到更多關於這些風險和不確定性的資訊。

Actual results may differ, and we take no obligation to revise or update any forward-looking statements. Finally, during today's meeting, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP financial measures are in addition to and not a substitute for or superior to measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with GAAP. A full reconciliation of GAAP to non-GAAP is available in our shareholder letter and on the sec.gov website.

實際結果可能與預期有所不同，我們不承擔任何修訂或更新前瞻性聲明的義務。最後，在今天的會議上，我們將討論非公認會計準則（非GAAP）財務指標。這些非GAAP財務指標是依照公認會計準則（GAAP）編製的財務績效指標的補充，而非替代或優於後者。 GAAP與非GAAP的完整調節表可在我們的股東信函和美國證券交易委員會（SEC）網站上查閱。

Great. So what we'll do now is similar like what we have done in previous quarters. We get a number of inbound questions during the quarter, and we will start with kind of 2 key questions here. The first is to Jim, and then the next is to Luis.

好的。接下來我們要做的事情和前幾季類似。每個季度我們都會收到很多諮詢，這裡我們先來解答兩個關鍵問題。第一個問題問吉姆，第二個問題問路易斯。

So the first question to Jim is, with the recent announcement of the new CEO and your new role as Chairman of the Board, how do you see Unity going forward?

那麼，第一個問題要問吉姆，隨著新任執行長的任命以及您擔任董事會主席的新角色，您如何看待 Unity 的未來發展？

Let me start off with saying I am thrilled to have Matt Bromberg joining us as Unity's CEO. He starts next Wednesday. We conducted a super thorough search, and really, I'm thrilled with him. He has a great combination of -- he is super strategic. He really has a sense of the industry, what are the trends, what are the subtleties, what are the disruptions happening. So I think he'll be a great strategic steward of the business.

首先，我非常高興馬特·布羅姆伯格（Matt Bromberg）能加入我們，擔任Unity的執行長。他將於下週三正式上任。我們進行了非常全面的遴選，最後的選擇真的讓我非常滿意。他具備卓越的策略眼光，對產業有著深刻的理解，包括產業趨勢、細微差別以及正在發生的變革。因此，我相信他將成為公司一位傑出的策略領導者。

But in addition, he is a down-in-the-weeds operational leader who, I think, he continue to drive improvements in our execution. And finally, he knows the business extremely well, both the development -- kind of game development side as well as the monetization side. So I think he's a -- will be a great leader for the company going forward.

此外，他是一位腳踏實地、注重實效的營運領導者，我認為他會持續推動我們執行力的提升。最後，他對業務非常了解，包括遊戲開發和獲利模式兩方面。所以我認為，他將會是公司未來發展的傑出領導者。

Secondly, I'm not going anywhere. I'm remaining as Executive Chairman. And what I'm really excited about working on is the Industry side of the business. I am -- obviously, an area where I've spent a lot of time, and I continue to be super excited about the opportunity we have there. I'm probably biased, but I still think that's a bigger opportunity in the long run than the Gaming business, and I'm looking forward to partnering with Matt to help however I can and ensure the success and growth of that business.

其次，我不會離開。我將繼續擔任執行主席。我真正興奮的是公司產業方面的業務。顯然，我在這個領域投入了大量時間，而且我仍然對我們在這個領域擁有的機會感到無比激動。我可能有點偏袒，但我仍然認為，從長遠來看，這比遊戲業務更有發展潛力。我期待與馬特合作，盡我所能地幫助確保業務的成功和發展。

In terms of how I see the business today, I guess let me address that in the short term and the long term. I'd say in the short term, I am even more confident in our ability to deliver the plan this year. The reason I say that is severalfold as things have unfolded.

就我目前對公司業務的看法而言，我想從短期和長期兩個方面來談談。就短期而言，我對我們今年實現計劃的能力更有信心。我這麼說的原因很多，隨著事態的發展，情況也越來越好。

First off, we are seeing customers who were a bit ruffled at the end of last year feeling much more confident with us. We've gone from the what and why of runtime fee to, I think, a recognition that the industry wants to make sure that we invest in the runtime. And so it's a matter of how, and let's kind of work through that. So we're having super productive conversations with our large customers.

首先，我們看到有些客戶在去年底還有些擔憂，現在他們對我們更有信心了。我們已經從最初的「運行時費用是什麼」和「為什麼收取運行時費用」的討論，轉變為現在的共識：整個行業都希望我們投資於運行時資源。所以，現在的問題是如何收取運行時費用，讓我們一起探討。目前，我們與大客戶的溝通非常有效。

We had a phenomenal GDC. Really, really great engagement across the board. So also makes me feel good about our relationships with developers and where those are moving. On Unity 6, obviously, that doesn't release until later this year. But if we look at the leading metrics, both the downloads and usage, but importantly, our measures around quality and our time lines, it's the highest quality release at this stage that we've ever had and the time lines have pulled in.

我們這次GDC大會非常成功，各方面的參與度都非常高。這讓我對我們與開發者的關係以及雙方關係的進展感到非常滿意。至於Unity 6，顯然要到今年稍後才會發布。但如果我們看一下關鍵指標，包括下載量和使用量，更重要的是，看看我們在品質和時間進度方面的衡量標準，就會發現這是我們迄今為止在這個階段發布過的品質最高的版本，而且發佈時間也已經提前完成。

We're not necessarily saying we're going to pull the release date in yet, but the time lines are coming in, that's generally a really, really good sign of good execution. And finally, we talked a lot about interventions we're doing on the data and analytics side on the Monetization business. Obviously, those have not manifested in the numbers yet.

我們並非一定要現在就確定發布日期，但時間表正在逐步完善，這通常是執行力強勁的一個非常好的跡象。最後，我們重點討論了在變現業務的數據和分析方面所做的干預措施。顯然，這些措施尚未體現在具體數據中。

We've done a lot of the work. We're starting to get the results of the testing. It looks very encouraging. Those will roll out through the quarter, and you'll start to see that in Q3. So you put all that together, I'm highly confident in our plan for the remainder of the year. We obviously were confident last quarter, but all of the indicators over the last 3 months make me even more confident in our ability to deliver.

我們已經做了很多工作，測試結果也開始陸續出爐，看起來非常令人鼓舞。這些結果將在本季陸續公佈，預計第三季就能看到成效。綜上所述，我對今年剩餘時間的計畫非常有信心。上個季度我們當然也很有信心，但過去三個月的所有指標都讓我更加確信我們能夠按時完成任務。

In the long run, again, I continue to be super optimistic about the business. We are essential to gaming. There are a number of trends where, I think, in Gaming, where I think our position can help our customers be even more successful, which makes us essential, and we'll continue to obsess over our customers' success, and I feel really great about that piece of the business.

從長遠來看，我對公司的業務依然非常樂觀。我們對遊戲產業至關重要。我認為，在遊戲領域，有許多趨勢可以幫助我們的客戶取得更大的成功，這使我們變得不可或缺。我們將繼續專注於客戶的成功，我對這部分業務感到非常滿意。

And frankly, on the Industry side, as I said, that's -- it is still a relatively nascent opportunity for us, but the more I'm out talking to customers, the more opportunity I see there. So overall, both the short term, I feel much more confident, and to the long term, I remain super excited about.

坦白說，就行業層面而言，正如我所說，這對我們來說仍然是一個相對新興的機會，但我與客戶交流越多，就越能發現其中的機會。因此，總的來說，無論短期前景，我都更有信心；而對於長期前景，我仍然感到非常興奮。

Great. Thank you, Jim. So the second question is to Luis. What is your overall take on Q1? And what are the plans to accelerate revenue growth here in the second half of the year?

太好了，謝謝你，吉姆。第二個問題問路易斯。你對第一季的整體情況有何看法？下半年有什麼計畫來加速營收成長？

Thank you, Daniel. I believe that we accomplished a lot in Q1. If you think about it, we delivered in line with expectations, with strategic revenue up 2%, Create, in particular, grew strategic revenue 17% with our core subscriptions up 13%, and we're making very good progress expanding profitability.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。我認為我們在第一季取得了很大的成就。仔細想想，我們的業績符合預期，策略收入成長了2%，特別是Create業務，策略收入成長了17%，核心訂閱收入成長了13%，而且我們在提高獲利能力方面也取得了非常好的進展。

EBITDA was up $50 million year-over-year, and if you look at our like-for-like net income improvement, it is close to $100 million year-over-year. So great progress on profitability as we continue to drive revenue growth. And very importantly, this results were achieved while successfully completing a very large and complex cost and portfolio reset that will position us much stronger going forward.

息稅折舊攤銷前利潤 (EBITDA) 年增 5,000 萬美元，而以可比口徑計算，淨利潤年增接近 1 億美元。因此，在持續推動營收成長的同時，獲利能力也取得了顯著提升。更重要的是，這些業績是在成功完成一項規模龐大且複雜的成本和業務組合調整計劃的情況下取得的，這將使我們在未來的發展中佔據更有利的地位。

As Jim mentioned, customer engagement with the Engine and retention rates are healthy. Industry continues to be our fastest growing business, and we continue making progress with AI tools, particularly Muse and Sentis. So I would say a very good quarter.

正如Jim所提到的，客戶對引擎的參與度和留存率都很高。產業仍然是我們成長最快的業務，我們在人工智慧工具方面也持續取得進展，尤其是Muse和Sentis。所以我認為這是一個非常好的季度。

Now looking ahead, which is kind of your second part of your question, overall, the plan is unchanged from our conversations last quarter. With the portfolio and cost interventions behind us, we're now focused on the Engine, the Cloud, our Monetization business, where we believe that we can sustainably create value for our customers and generate a good return for our shareholders.

現在展望未來，也就是您問題的第二部分，總體而言，計劃與我們上個季度討論的內容保持一致。隨著產品組合和成本控制工作的完成，我們現在專注於引擎、雲端和貨幣化業務，我們相信在這些領域能夠為客戶創造可持續的價值，並為股東帶來良好的回報。

In Create, we expect the second half to continue to come from growth in subscriptions in both Games and Industries, and in Grow, we expect the second half acceleration to be driven by improvements in performance in our Monetization solutions and better usage of data to train our models and deliver that return on ad spend for our customers.

在 Create 業務方面，我們預計下半年將繼續來自遊戲和行業訂閱量的成長；在 Grow 業務方面，我們預計下半年加速成長將得益於我們的貨幣化解決方案效能的提升，以及更好地利用數據來訓練我們的模型，並為我們的客戶帶來廣告支出回報。

And very importantly, we continue to make progress on something we talked last quarter, which is to integrate Create and Grow to better serve our paying customers more holistically, which is something that Unity can uniquely do better than anybody else. So in summary, I would say that we believe that we're very well positioned, and our focus now is to execute our full potential.

非常重要的一點是，我們在上個季度討論過的一個專案上持續取得進展，那就是整合 Create 和 Grow 功能，以便更全面地服務我們的付費客戶。在這方面，Unity 擁有其他任何公司都無法比擬的獨特優勢。總而言之，我們認為我們目前處於非常有利的地位，現在的重點是充分發揮我們的潛力。

Now before we go to other questions, I would like to remind you that our revenue guide is for our strategic portfolio only. This -- and we're doing this to help investors really focus on the business that we're driving while we exit the nonstrategic business. So you will see our guidance for strategic revenue, when we report actuals, we're obviously giving you both numbers: the numbers for our strategic portfolio as well as our nonstrategic portfolio.

在討論其他問題之前，我想提醒各位，我們的收入預期僅針對我們的策略投資組合。這樣做是為了幫助投資者真正專注於我們正在主導的業務，同時逐步退出非策略性業務。因此，在公佈實際收入時，我們會同時提供策略性投資組合和非策略性投資組合的收入數據。

On adjusted EBITDA, though, we're guiding for the total company. This is to avoid allocation issues. And as we know, the nonstrategic portfolio adjusted EBITDA is not meaningful, which is one of the reasons we're exiting those businesses. So hopefully, that is clear, and we can go back to the questions.

不過，關於調整後 EBITDA，我們給的是公司整體的指引。這是為了避免分配問題。而且我們都知道，非策略性投資組合的調整後 EBITDA 意義不大，這也是我們退出這些業務的原因之一。希望這一點已經很清楚了，我們可以回到問題上。

Great. Thanks, Luis. So with that, why don't we open it up to questions here. (Operator Instructions) Okay. So the first question, Andrew Boone from JMP Securities.

太好了，謝謝路易斯。那麼，我們現在就開始接受提問吧。 （操作員提示）好的。第一個問題，來自JMP Securities的安德魯·布恩。

I wanted to go back in terms of the growth drivers that you just talked about for the second half of the acceleration. I think for Grow, you talked about monetization of solutions and then better usage of data. Can you just unpack that a little bit more in terms of what we should actually expect? And from the product perspective, what exactly are you guys doing to be able to drive that growth?

我想回到您剛才提到的加速器後半段的成長驅動因素。關於成長，您提到了解決方案的貨幣化以及更有效地利用數據。您能否更詳細地解釋一下，我們究竟該期待些什麼？從產品角度來看，你們具體採取了哪些措施來推動成長？

Do you want to take that, Jim? Or...

吉姆，你想拿走嗎？還是…

Well, I can start and you can kind of kind of break that out. So it sound like you said more on the Grow side of the portfolio. So as we said before, we're operating with, frankly, 2 different data science departments. So we weren't fully kind of integrated in what we were doing.

好的，我可以先從頭說起，然後你再慢慢展開。聽起來你剛才談到了投資組合中的成長部分。正如我們之前所說，坦白講，我們有兩個不同的數據科學部門在運作。所以我們在工作上並沒有完全整合。

This year, as part of kind of completing the ironSource merger, we've kind of brought those organizations together, whether it's data engineering or data science. There was frankly a lot of data we just weren't fully using. We are now training our models using substantially more data.

今年，作為完成 ironSource 合併的一部分，我們整合了各個部門，包括資料工程和資料科學部門。坦白說，之前我們有很多數據沒有充分利用。現在，我們正在使用更多的數據來訓練模型。

We also -- by combining forces, we're able to kind of roll out incremental analytics against those things. And there are multiple. There's like one for iOS, there's one for Android, there's one around different sets of kind of behavior into these various data sets, data we're getting from MMPs.

我們也可以透過整合資源，逐步推出針對這些面向的分析。而且分析不只一種。例如，有針對 iOS 的，有針對 Android 的，還有針對不同行為模式的，並將這些行為模式應用到我們從 MMP 取得的各種資料集中的。

And so each one of these, you kind of continue to tweak models and test and compare and run A/B tests, et cetera, et cetera. And then as you see those results and you kind of tweak and you kind of get where you see material uplift, you then do the full training on all your data and you start to roll those things out.

所以，每一個模型，你都要不斷調整、測試、比較，進行 A/B 測試等等。然後，當你看到這些結果，並進行調整，最終看到顯著提升時，你就可以對所有資料進行完整的訓練，然後開始推廣這些模型。

So that's what we're doing. Obviously, some of those things are competitive, so I won't go to the very, very specifics. But we have at least about 8 or 9, I'd say, major kind of things that we contemplated at the beginning of the year. Literally, I think all of them look pretty good.

所以這就是我們正在做的。顯然，其中一些項目具有競爭性，所以我不會透露具體細節。但我們年初的時候至少考慮過八、九個比較重要的項目。說實話，我覺得所有這些項目看起來都很不錯。

I think 6 or 7 of them, we actually now have some initial results that look super positive. The others just take longer. And so we will be rolling those out more at scale through the rest of this quarter, and it will bleed into July as well, which is why we see the back half of the year, as we've projected, kind of sequential improvement in the back half of the year there.

我認為其中六、七項，我們現在已經取得了一些非常正面的初步成果。其他的則需要更長時間。因此，我們將在本季度剩餘時間內更大規模地推廣這些項目，而這項工作也會延續到七月份，這就是為什麼我們預計下半年會像我們預測的那樣，出現環比改善的原因。

Maybe just to add, when we talk about more data, as we said last quarter, there are 2 components of more data. The first piece is just using more data that we already have. There is nothing we need to do. We just need to consume it. We need to train our models, and that's what we're doing.

補充一點，當我們談到更多數據時，正如我們上個季度所說，更多數據包含兩個面向。第一方面是利用我們已有的更多數據。我們不需要做任何額外的工作，只需要使用這些數據。我們需要訓練我們的模型，而這正是我們正在做的。

And the other piece is to get more data, which we think we can, based on our total portfolio, so that we can actually improve and create a competitive advantage. So those are 2 components of the data.

另一方面，我們需要獲取更多數據，我們認為基於我們整體的投資組合，我們可以做到這一點，從而真正改進並創造競爭優勢。以上是資料的兩個組成部分。

And as Jim said, we're working very hard to improve our models. There are very clear interventions that are coming in. We're testing, tests are looking encouraging. And therefore, that gives us confidence that we'll see improvements in the back half.

正如吉姆所說，我們正在努力改進模型。一些明確的干預措施正在實施中。我們正在進行測試，測試結果令人鼓舞。因此，我們有信心在下半年看到改善。

The next question, Jason Bazinet from Citi.

下一個問題，來自花旗銀行的傑森·巴齊內特。

I just had a question on the share count. I don't -- maybe I have my notes wrong, but did the share count guidance for the full year increase a bit? And if so, you mind just unpacking the drivers of that?

我有個關於股份數量的問題。我不太清楚——也許是我記錯了——但全年股份數量預期是否有所增加？如果是的話，您能否詳細解釋一下背後的原因？

Yes. Jason, it did go up a few million. It's just driven by all the changes, all the restructuring we're doing. Nothing significant. I think it went up less than 1%, 0.5% or something like that. So that's the increase you see there.

是的，傑森，確實漲了幾百萬。這主要是受我們正在進行的各種變革和重組的影響。漲幅並不大。我想漲幅不到1%，大約0.5%。這就是你看到的漲幅。

So I thought -- maybe my numbers are wrong, I thought it went up like 3%, 492 million versus 476 million or something. Maybe I have the wrong notes.

所以我想——也許我的數字錯了，我記得增加了3%左右，從4.76億漲到了4.92億之類的。也許是我記錯了。

Yes, I'll come back to you, Jason. I think it was a small increase driven by all the restructuring we're doing [on] the year. But that's really the change. Nothing else.

好的，傑森，我會再跟你談的。我認為這只是小幅增長，主要是由於我們今年進行的各種重組造成的。但除此之外，沒有其他變化。

Great. Thank you, Jason. So the next question is Michael Funk.

太好了，謝謝你，傑森。那麼下一個問題就是麥可·芬克。

Jim, you mentioned interventions on the Monetization side, and not in the numbers yet, but can you give us more clarity, maybe some quantification on what you're seeing in initial testing expectations for return on ad spend relative to the industry standard today?

吉姆，你提到了在貨幣化方面進行幹預，雖然還沒有具體數據，但你能否更清楚地說明一下，或許可以量化一下你在初步測試中看到的廣告支出回報率預期與當前行業標準相比的情況？

AppLovin commented last night, they believe they have a insurmountable advantage on the Monetization side. And so I would love to hear your thoughts on what you're seeing with the initial testing and where you are or believe you are, return on ad spend, and where you believe that you can go and close that gap?

AppLovin昨晚表示，他們認為在獲利方面擁有不可逾越的優勢。因此，我很想聽聽您對初步測試的看法，以及您目前或您認為在廣告支出回報率方面所處的位置，以及您認為可以如何縮小差距？

Well, I'll give you 2 observations, and then Luis, if you want to kind of add in here. So first off, some of these tests, as we then kind of talk to partners, they have been extremely positive, and we've actually had some people moving some more to LevelPlay with the results of some of the things we're doing. And these are large max customers. And so that leads us to believe that the interventions actually close much of the gap versus AppLovin.

好的，我先說兩點觀察結果，路易斯，如果你也想補充的話。首先，我們和合作夥伴在交流後發現，有些測試結果非常積極，而且根據我們採取的一些措施，有些客戶已經將更多業務轉移到了 LevelPlay。這些都是大型客戶。因此，這讓我們相信，這些措施確實大大縮小了 LevelPlay 與 AppLovin 之間的差距。

These things are kind of relative to share, so a lot of share moving back our way. Are we equal to them or not in ROAS? It's hard to exactly say on these, but the customer feedback has been actually extremely positive, and we are seeing share shift. And we think when we roll these out, we will continue to see that.

這些都與市場佔有率有關，所以很多市佔率正在轉移到我們這邊。我們在廣告支出回報率（ROAS）方面是否與他們持平？很難準確判斷，但客戶回饋確實非常積極，我們也看到了市場份額的轉移。我們認為，隨著這些措施的全面實施，這種趨勢還會持續下去。

The other thing I would say just broadly is, look, nothing against AppLovin. I think it's -- they're doing an amazing job. They're executing on all cylinders. I think one of the benefits as we look at ourselves right now, and we hear this over and over and over again. No one wants to have one partner, right? That scares people.

我還要補充一點，我並不是針對AppLovin。我認為他們做得非常出色，各個環節都運作良好。我認為，就我們目前的情況來看，我們反覆聽到的一點是，沒有人願意只有一個合作夥伴，對吧？這會讓很多人感到害怕。

You don't want to be reliant on one partner, especially given the ability, if you have a lot of share, to just increase your margin, i.e., what you pay a publisher versus what you charge. And so people want competition there. And so we've had a number of customers just say, we're being patient. We're expecting to catch up. We're here for you. You got to deliver, but we're here for you.

你不想依賴單一合作夥伴，尤其是在你擁有很大市場份額的情況下，你完全可以提高利潤率，也就是你支付給出版商的費用與你收取的費用之間的差額。所以人們需要競爭。因此，我們有許多客戶表示，他們會耐心等待，期待迎頭趕上。我們會全力支持你們。你們必須拿出成果，而我們會一直支持你們。

So it's not a situation where a company can run away with this and everybody is excited. People are wanting us to close gaps and win. So there's a lot of patience there. And as we're working through these, again, where we've worked with a couple of partners specifically on these things, we've seen really good results against those things.

所以，這不是那種公司可以獨佔鰲頭、人人歡欣鼓舞的情況。大家都希望我們能彌補差距，取得成功。因此，我們需要保持耐心。在我們努力解決這些問題的過程中，尤其是在與幾個合作夥伴專門合作解決這些問題時，我們已經看到了非常好的成果。

So whether we close the gap to 100% or to 70% or 80%, it's really hard to say just as we're kind of running through, because you don't actually see the ROAS numbers across. But what we're seeing is very positive trajectory, which will impact spend with these various advertisers. So that much, I can say. It's hard to compare benchmark to benchmark.

所以，我們最終能把差距縮小到100%、70%還是80%，現在還很難說，因為我們目前還沒有看到具體的ROAS數據。但我們看到的是一個非常積極的趨勢，這將影響到各個廣告主的支出。這就是我能說的全部。很難直接比較各個基準。

Thank you for the good color, Jim. And by the way, very nice speaking with you last few quarters and good luck to you in the new role.

吉姆，謝謝你提供的寶貴資訊。順便說一句，過去幾個季度和你交談非常愉快，祝你在新的崗位上一切順利。

Thank you. Appreciate it.

謝謝。感激不盡。

So the next question, let's open the mic for Clark Lampen, at BTIG.

那麼下一個問題，讓我們把麥克風交給 BTIG 的 Clark Lampen。

Jim, I wanted to start with the Plus to sort of Pro transition that's underway. Anything that you could tell us around early signal with customers sort of moving up to more expensive Pro plans? Have you seen that sort of happening the way that you expected?

吉姆，我想先談談目前正在進行的Plus到Pro的過渡。關於客戶升級到更昂貴的Pro套餐的早期跡象，您有什麼可以透露的嗎？您是否觀察到這種情況如您所預期的發生？

And then, Luis, a bit of a micro question on 2Q. But understanding that you guys don't guide at the segment level, I was curious if you could give us some directional commentary around both sort of Create and Grow. Should we expect both segments to be up? Is one sort of up and one is flat? Just curious if there's any one bucket that's going to be driving more of 2Q than the other.

路易斯，關於第二季度，我有個比較細緻的問題。我知道你們不提供細分市場的業績指引，所以我想請教一下，能否就「創造」和「成長」這兩個板塊分別給出一些方向性分析？這兩個板塊是否都會成長？或其中一個成長，另一個持平？我只是好奇，在第二季業績中，哪個板塊會比其他板塊更能推動成長。

Look, on the Plus to Pro, Luis, I don't know if you wanted to add some commentary. I honestly couldn't tell you, versus our expectations, where that stands. I think we're pleased with it, but I'm not sure how that plays out versus, Luis, what you would...

路易斯，關於Plus升級到Pro這件事，我不知道你是否想補充一些看法。說實話，我無法告訴你它和我們預期相比如何。我覺得我們對它還算滿意，但我不確定它和你預期的相比如何…

Yes. we're very happy with how customers are migrating. Particularly, we're seeing some of our customers migrate all the way to Enterprise, which is obviously better for us, better for our customers. So we're seeing a good migration of customers up, and that comes on top of the price increase we took about 18 months ago. So we're seeing all of that flow through the bottom line.

是的，我們對客戶的遷移非常滿意。尤其值得一提的是，我們看到一些客戶升級到了企業版，這顯然對我們和客戶都有好處。因此，我們看到客戶升級的勢頭良好，而這又得益於我們大約18個月前的價格上漲。所以，我們看到所有這些因素都最終體現在了利潤上。

I think to your second question, I really want to be careful not to guide between the 2 businesses. I do expect Create to do better than Grow on the quarter, and we -- and also on the year, not -- so Create should be growing faster, as you would expect, but Grow will be sequentially improving, particularly in the second half as we fix some of these gaps that we had.

關於你的第二個問題，我想特別注意，避免對這兩個業務進行區分。我預計本季度Create的業績會優於Grow，而且全年業績也不會更好——所以Create的成長速度應該更快，正如你所預期的那樣。但Grow也會逐年改善，尤其是在下半年，隨著我們彌補之前存在的一些不足。

Next question comes from Parker Lane at Stifel.

下一個問題來自斯蒂費爾公司的帕克萊恩。

Perfect. Jim, how significant or material is the Capgemini partnership in delivering successful projects around Industries? I know this is something that you guys really wanted to emphasize with a third party, so is that shortening the time for people to deploy Industries' products, improving the scope of those projects? What is that looking like?

太好了。吉姆，凱捷的合作對於成功交付工業領域的專案有多重要？我知道你們非常希望透過第三方來強調這一點，那麼這種合作是否能縮短用戶部署工業產品的時間，或擴大專案範圍？具體來說，是什麼樣的合作？

Well, we closed April 30, so in the last 9 days, I mean, honestly, we haven't had a chance to see a lot there. What I will say is having kind of lived this movie before, I think if you look most enterprise, or I'm talking about enterprise software, but infrastructure companies accelerate their business when they have partners who take that infrastructure and deliver bespoke solutions for customers.

嗯，我們4月30日就關門了，所以過去9天裡，說實話，我們沒怎麼有機會好好看看。不過，我之前也經歷過類似的情況，我覺得大多數企業，或者我指的是企業軟體，尤其是基礎設施公司，如果能找到合作夥伴，利用這些基礎設施為客戶提供客製化解決方案，就能加速業務發展。

I don't think it will be any different for us. We offer an extraordinary solution to visualize real-time kind of interactive 3D, whether that's creation through viewing. The use cases, there are a few standardized ones. Taking all your PLM tools and having a common viewer, that's more of a true product thing, but the vast majority of this will be kind of custom applications that are delivered by SIs.

我認為我們的情況也不會有什麼不同。我們提供了一個卓越的解決方案，可以即時視覺化互動式 3D 模型，無論是建立還是查看。應用場景方面，有一些標準化的案例。將所有 PLM 工具整合到一個通用檢視器中，這更像是一個真正的產品，但絕大多數應用仍將是系統整合商提供的客製化應用程式。

So I have high confidence in it. I think we're excited about it. But literally, we just closed April 30. And so again, beyond high confidence, it's -- nothing's changed in the last 9 days enough to kind of give you an indication on deal sizes or [lengths] in those things, but we continue to be optimistic.

所以我對此充滿信心。我們對此感到興奮。但實際上，我們4月30日才剛完成交易。所以，除了充滿信心之外，過去9天裡沒有任何足以表明交易規模或期限的變化，但我們仍然保持樂觀。

Thank you. So next question, Josh Tilton from Wolfe.

謝謝。那麼下一個問題，來自 Wolfe 的 Josh Tilton。

I just want to -- I kind of want to follow up on a question I think that was kind of asked a few different ways in the beginning, but just very directly. And what I'm just trying to understand is, is your confidence around the second half acceleration growth coming strictly from the improvements that you're making, and your expectation for these improvement's to help improve growth?

我只是想──我想就一個問題再補充一下，我覺得這個問題一開始已經被以幾種不同的方式問過了，但我還是想直接問。我只是想了解的是，您對下半年加速成長的信心是否完全來自於您正在進行的改進，以及您是否預期這些改進將有助於提高成長？

Or is it because you've made these improvements and you're already seeing it somehow change customer behaviors today? And if it's the latter, can you just help us out, give us a sense, give us a flavor, just an example of how these improvements are already changing customer behaviors to use these products?

還是因為你們已經進行了這些改進，並且看到它們在某種程度上改變了客戶的行為？如果是後者，能否請您幫我們舉例說明一下，讓我們感受一下，或者舉個例子，說明這些改進是如何改變客戶使用這些產品的行為的？

Yes. I mean at the end of the day, they are not yet showing up in revenue, right? Otherwise, you would be seeing it in Q1. And what we're telling you is that it's not going to happen until the back end of the second half of the year.

是的。我的意思是，歸根究底，這些收入還沒有體現在營收上，對吧？否則，第一季就應該可以看到了。而我們想告訴你們的是，這種情況要到下半年末才會出現。

So our A/B testing is encouraging. We continue to show -- particularly -- we're improving the sophistication of our complex machine learning models and infrastructure and using more data, as I mentioned just before. So we're seeing those benefits, but they are just not yet at a scale where it's showing up in our revenue.

因此，我們的A/B測試結果令人鼓舞。正如我剛才提到的，我們持續證明——尤其重要的是——我們正在改進複雜的機器學習模型和基礎設施，並利用更多的數據。所以，我們已經看到了這些好處，但它們尚未達到能夠轉化為實際收入的規模。

Yes, I'll try to give you just an example. And it's a lot of little things. So we did some work on the performance of our playables ads, made a tremendous improvement. And so we have a couple of customers in particular who are really excited to see that and are working with us to want to kind of scale this out much more broadly.

是的，我試著舉個例子。這其中有很多小細節。我們對可玩廣告的表現進行了一些優化，並取得了顯著的提升。有幾位客戶對此感到非常興奮，他們正與我們合作，希望將這種模式推廣到更廣泛的範圍。

And so as those things, where they're small, but they're real -- on real data, live experiments that we've done, are bigger -- kind of trials that we've done that have shown real material results, and we have no reason to think that, that won't continue when we roll these things out at scale.

因此，雖然這些事情規模很小，但它們是真實的——基於真實的數據，我們進行的現場實驗，規模更大——我們進行的試驗已經顯示出了真實的實質性結果，我們沒有理由認為，當我們大規模推廣這些事情時，這些結果不會繼續下去。

So playable ads would be one. I want to be a little cagey because we don't want to talk about details of the various areas we're working relative to competitors. But it's areas like that where it is real things, real tests run for multiple weeks where you see the results.

可玩廣告就是其中之一。我得稍微保密一下，因為我們不想談論我們在各個領域相對於競爭對手的具體細節。但正是像這樣的領域，我們才會進行真正的測試，持續數週，最終才能看到結果。

And the reason [was just run] a test and say, "Oh, let me throw it out there," is you run a test and you tweak because you want to get it as optimized as possible before you roll it out at full scale. But what we're seeing in several areas like playables, has been extremely positive, and so we expect as we roll these out, that we'll see material positive results from them.

之所以先進行測試，然後說“哦，讓我試試看”，是因為你需要進行測試並進行調整，以便在全面推廣之前盡可能地優化它。但我們在可玩版本等多個方面看到的回饋都非常積極，因此我們預計隨著這些功能的推廣，我們將看到顯著的正面成果。

Thank you. So next question, Matthew Cost from Morgan Stanley.

謝謝。下一個問題，請摩根士丹利的馬修·科斯特提問。

So I guess you're obviously having a lot of conversations with customers right now. I think you stated that kind of at the beginning of the script. One thing that Unity as an institution has talked about historically is how your customers are paying you less than 1% as a take rate of the revenue, and mathematically, given how much value you provide, it -- they should be able to pay more.

所以，我猜你現在肯定在跟客戶進行很多溝通。我想你在演講稿開頭也提到了這一點。 Unity作為一個機構，一直以來都在討論的一個問題是，客戶支付的佣金比例不到收入的1%，而從數學角度來看，考慮到你提供的價值，他們理應支付更高的佣金。

I imagine you're probably in those conversations with advertisers right now kind of testing and going back and forth about what they are willing to pay you, kind of along the lines of what you're saying of they understand that it's important for you [and be at] a product to invest for the good of the industry.

我想你現在可能正在和廣告商進行一些對話，測試並反覆討論他們願意支付給你多少錢，就像你剛才說的那樣，他們明白這對你來說很重要，並且投資於一個對行業有益的產品。

So I guess how should we, in the financial markets, think about what your customers are willing to pay you? How are you dimensioning that in the conversations that you're having with them right now, and how should we think about it?

所以我想，在金融市場中，我們該如何看待客戶願意支付的價格？在目前與客戶的對話中，你們是如何衡量這一點的？我們又該如何看待這個問題？

I'll start on that. Look, I've been frankly trying to stay away from those conversations. To talk about a fixed pie and the fact we're not getting our fair share in a fixed pie is a really lousy conversation to have, because that means you're talking to your customer about kind of giving some of their pie to you.

我先來說說這個。說實話，我一直盡量避免談論這類話題。討論一個固定的蛋糕，以及我們在這個固定蛋糕裡沒分到應得的那份，實在是太糟糕了，因為這意味著你在跟你的客戶商量，讓他們把蛋糕的一部分分給你。

I think the better and broader way to think about it, and Luis alluded to it before, we're not talking about Create and Grow internally, and we're not talking about it with our customers. We're talking about, what can we do in what is a very difficult market for our gaming customers? How can we help drive their success by what we can bring to bear, whether that's about how to build games that are more immersive, so better games, how to build games faster, how to build games with lower development costs, how to accelerate the ability to monetize against those games.

我認為更全面、更合理的思考方式（路易斯之前也提到過）是，我們不是在內部討論“創造與成長”，也不是在和客戶討論這個問題。我們討論的是，在遊戲客戶面臨如此艱難的市場環境下，我們能做些什麼？我們如何利用自身優勢來幫助他們成功？這些優點包括如何打造更具沉浸感、更優質的遊戲，如何更快地開發遊戲，如何降低開發成本，以及如何加快遊戲的獲利速度。

And when you have conversations around that, where you start talking about how do we improve your success, how we get paid becomes a little bit less kind of important kind of in that. And I think it's an area where because we cut across development through monetization, we have a unique ability to talk to them.

當你圍繞著這個話題展開對話，開始討論如何提升你的成功率時，我們如何獲得報酬就顯得沒那麼重要了。我認為，正因為我們能夠貫穿開發和獲利的整個流程，我們才擁有與他們溝通的獨特優勢。

So Matt, I know I'm not directly answering your question, because we're not asking it that way. But I'm very confident about how positive the conversations have turned in the last few months. I think partly, bluntly, just runtime fee having sunk in and kind of gotten behind us, but I think part of it is people seeing us talking in a much more productive and proactive way, not saying, "Oh, we're only getting 1% and we deserve more." But, "Hey, how do we make this industry more profitable?"

馬特，我知道我並沒有直接回答你的問題，因為我們並沒有那樣問。但我對過去幾個月來討論的正向轉變非常有信心。坦白說，部分原因是人們已經逐漸接受了運行時費用的概念，並且不再糾結於此；但我認為部分原因在於，人們看到我們以一種更加積極主動的方式進行討論，不再抱怨“哦，我們只拿到1%，我們應該得到更多”，而是思考“嘿，我們該如何讓這個行業更賺錢？”

And in doing so, yes, we'll find a way to get a little bit of that. Overall, I really do feel like the conversations are so much more positive than they were kind of coming in with that attitude.

這樣做的話，是的，我們肯定能找到辦法實現一點目標。總的來說，我感覺現在的對話比之前那種態度積極多了。

No, no, that makes perfect sense. And then I guess in terms of those conversations with customers, I think one thing that you've mentioned over the course of the past quarter,is the idea of maybe more data sharing with customers as a means of providing inputs for the Grow business. I guess, how are those conversations going? Are you seeing any uptake or even any early testing with that right now?

不，不，這完全說得通。然後，關於與客戶的溝通，我想您在過去一個季度中提到一點，那就是或許可以與客戶分享更多數據，以此作為發展業務的參考。我想問一下，這些溝通進度如何？您目前是否看到任何接受或初步測試的跡象？

We actually have a product launching called [CoreStats] over this summer. And so frankly, we've been kind of -- we want to kind of get that solidified before we actually start having some of those conversations. So I personally haven't had a lot of those conversations, because we didn't want to make it too theoretical. So I don't know, Luis, have you had any of those? Do you have any color there?

我們今年夏天會推出一款名為[CoreStats]的產品。坦白說，我們一直想先把這個產品定型，然後再開始進行相關的討論。所以，我個人並沒有進行太多這方面的討論，因為我們不想讓討論過於理論化。路易斯，你有沒有參與過類似的討論？有什麼具體情況可以分享嗎？

No, I agree with what you're saying, Jim.

不，我同意你的說法，吉姆。

No, (inaudible). But our belief, just in our broad conversations is, again, when you start talking about how do we make you more profitable across the portfolio, obviously, doing a better job of identifying kind of users that are going to be profitable, so part of that.

不，（聽不清楚）。但我們在廣泛的討論中認為，當你開始討論如何提高整個產品組合的獲利能力時，顯然，更好地識別哪些用戶類型能夠帶來利潤是其中的一部分。

And so I think of it less as kind of somehow giving data to Unity as much as like how do we work together to, kind of whether it's improve ad spend or improve monetization. Data is a part of that, but I think of it as more how we're helping them use that data to further benefit. And I think when you kind of articulate it that way, it makes sense to people.

所以我覺得這與其說是向Unity提供數據，不如說是我們如何合作，例如如何提高廣告支出或獲利能力。數據固然是其中的一部分，但我更關注的是如何幫助他們利用這些數據來獲得更多收益。我覺得這樣解釋之後，大家就更容易理解了。

Thank you, Matt. The next question, Martin Yang from Oppenheimer.

謝謝馬特。下一個問題，來自奧本海默公司的馬丁楊。

My first question is regarding runtime fee and its implementation. Do you still intend to use that fee to help the Grow segment in any way? In the past, I think using a runtime fee to offset some of the advertising expenses was part of the plan. Do you still have similar designs by the time you launch runtime fee later?

我的第一個問題是關於運行時費用及其具體實施方式。你們是否仍打算以任何方式利用這筆費用來幫助「成長」使用者群體？我記得以前你們的計畫是利用運行時費用來抵銷部分廣告支出。你們之後推出運行時費用時，是否還會沿用類似的方案？

Yes, that's still part of the plan. I don't look at it that way. I look at it as more we need to make the runtime sustainable, and that requires a revenue source. And whether that revenue source is, I'll call it, direct kind of "pay us based on usage," or indirect, "use our monetization, our ad stack, and therefore, we get some degree of monetization on that." I don't really care, right?

是的，那仍然是計劃的一部分。但我並不那樣看待這個問題。我更傾向於認為我們需要確保運行時的可持續性，而這需要收入來源。至於這個收入來源是直接的“按使用量付費”，還是間接的“使用我們的變現系統和廣告技術棧，從而獲得一定程度的收益”，我並不在意，對吧？

But I think the key is to -- for us to be able to continue to invest and build the runtime. To be extraordinary and long-lived, et cetera, et cetera, we need a revenue stream. And again, whether it's direct or indirect, I don't think we care as much. We're -- so I don't think it's as much as a subsidization as much as choose the way you want to help ensure that we make the runtime sustainable for all our customers. So I guess -- yes, I guess in a sense that if you're using a LevelPlay, yes, you don't have a runtime fee.

但我認為關鍵在於——為了讓我們能夠持續投資並建立運行時環境，為了保持卓越和長久的生命力等等，我們需要收入來源。而且，無論是直接收入還是間接收入，我認為我們並不太在意。所以，我認為這與其說是補貼，不如說是讓使用者選擇他們想要的方式來幫助我們確保運行時環境能夠持續為所有用戶服務。所以我想——是的，從某種意義上說，如果你使用的是 LevelPlay，那麼你確實不需要支付運行時環境費用。

Makes sense. Next question is on CoreStats. Can you maybe give us more information on that? Is that going to be a product that sits in Create or Grow? Or something entirely different?

明白了。下一個問題是關於CoreStats的。您能提供更多資訊嗎？它會是Create或Grow模組裡的產品嗎？還是完全不同的產品？

Well, it is in Create because it is -- I would call it more of a service than a product that we offer to help our customers better understand how users are engaging with their games. And so -- it's anywhere from crash data all the way through to kind of various measures around engagement. And of course, that data is also -- could be valuable on the ad side as well.

之所以把它放在「創建」模組裡，是因為它更像是一項服務而非產品，我們提供這項服務是為了幫助客戶更了解用戶如何與他們的遊戲互動。所以，它涵蓋了從崩潰數據到各種參與度指標等方方面面。當然，這些數據在廣告方面也很有價值。

So it's -- I guess you can -- [read it] as a product feature that can be enabled, but it's not like a separate line item. It is not something we're charging for. It's kind of a benefit to customers if they're willing to kind of engage with us to see that data, to help also help them better monetize their games.

所以，你可以把它理解為一項可以啟用的產品功能，但它並非單獨的收費項目。我們不會為此收費。如果客戶願意與我們互動，查看這些數據，這對他們來說是一種福利，也能幫助他們更好地實現遊戲獲​​利。

And I think this is a great example where we're no longer thinking about Create and Grow, but we're thinking about the game customer, right? And how do we create more value to them and more value for us by thinking about these customers more holistically?

我認為這是一個很好的例子，說明我們不再只想著如何創造和發展，而是要專注於遊戲玩家，對吧？透過更全面地思考這些玩家，我們如何為他們創造更多價值，同時也為自己創造更多價值？

Great. So our next question is Gili Naftalovich from Goldman Sachs.

好的。那麼我們的下一個問題來自高盛的吉利·納夫塔洛維奇。

Perfect. And I have one for Jim and a follow-up for Luis, if I may. And this is really off of Luis, with the comment that you just made. Are you guys seeing any different trends around customers that are using both Create and Grow? Or is this something that we should expect more in the second half on the back of the roll-off of Unity 6 and your new Monetization Engine?

太好了。如果可以的話，我還有個問題想問吉姆，還有一個後續問題想問路易斯。這個問題其實是路易斯提出的，跟你剛才的評論有關。你們有沒有觀察到同時使用 Create 和 Grow 的客戶有什麼不同的趨勢？或者說，隨著 Unity 6 的發布和你們新的變現引擎的推出，這種情況會在下半年更加明顯？

Yes. I would say it's really going to come together in the second half, on how we create the synergies between the 2. We're not seeing a lot of that yet. But we think that we have unique assets where we can actually do that, and that's something that only Unity can do. So we should expect that to come in the back half and then to continue to increase the years thereafter.

是的。我認為真正的融合將在下半年到來，屆時我們將專注於如何實現兩者之間的協同效應。目前我們還沒有看到太多這樣的成果。但我們認為我們擁有獨特的資源，可以真正做到這一點，而這正是Unity獨有的優勢。因此，我們應該期待在下半年看到這種融合的實現，並在接下來的幾年裡持續成長。

Yes. And part of it, it's not just around Unity 6, it's just time, right? I mean we literally just did this reorg and started acting this way in January. So we're starting to engage. Again, I hear positive feedback. But engagement to behavior will take a bit of time. (inaudible) getting slack from our marketing people. We actually feel very good about kind of ahead of plan on the migration to up to higher priced versions of Unity.

是的。一部分原因不只是 Unity 6，而是時間問題，對吧？我的意思是，我們一月份才剛完成重組並開始採取這種行動。所以我們正在逐步推進。我再次聽到了一些正面的回饋。但從積極參與到實際行動中需要一些時間。 （聽不清楚）我們的行銷人員正在努力調整策略。實際上，我們對向更高價位 Unity 版本的遷移進度感到非常滿意，甚至比計劃提前了一些。

I mean, I guess on that line of thought, too, like as it pertains to EBITDA, Luis, you came in very strong this quarter. How do you evaluate investment opportunities, again, comfortable with the allocation of capital in each one of the business initiatives and business line items that you have in the pipeline?

我的意思是，從這個角度來看，路易斯，就EBITDA而言，你這季度的表現非常出色。你是如何評估投資機會的？你是否對你正在籌備的各項業務計畫和業務項目進行資本分配感到滿意？

Yes. I mean we're being very thoughtful on where we invest, and we're particularly investing in things that make -- this is going to resonate because it's in line with everything we're seeing. So where are we investing? We're investing in data. That's one of the -- I was expecting you guys to ask why is our EBITDA kind of not improving significantly in Q2, and one of the reasons is because we're investing in cloud consumption to drive that data that will help us on our Grow side.

是的。我的意思是，我們在投資方面非常謹慎，尤其註重投資那些能夠帶來——這一點會引起共鳴，因為它與我們所看到的一切都相符。那麼，我們究竟在投資什麼呢？我們在投資數據。我原本以為你們會問，為什麼我們第二季的 EBITDA 沒有顯著改善，其中一個原因就是我們正在投資雲端消費，以推動資料成長，從而助力我們的業務成長。

So we see the benefit of the savings, the benefit of the restructuring on cost on the portfolio. And it flows through the bottom line, but then we're investing particularly on 2 things: cloud consumption to drive more data; and data scientists, because that's an area where we need to continue to improve and that just pays out very quickly. So that's kind of where we're going.

所以我們看到了成本節約和重組對投資組合成本降低的好處。這些好處最終都會體現在利潤上。但我們目前主要投資於兩方面：一是雲端消費，以推動更多資料成長；二是資料科學家，因為這是我們需要持續改善的領域，而且投資回報非常迅速。這就是我們未來的發展方向。

On capital allocation, as you know, we've been buying shares. We also reduced our debt significantly, at a good discount, by the way. We had a $61 million gain, as you saw. And we'll continue to evaluate what we do based on whatever the market is going. So we're constantly looking at that, Gili.

關於資本配置，正如您所知，我們一直在買入股票。順便一提，我們也大幅降低了債務，而且折扣力度相當大。如您所見，我們獲得了6100萬美元的收益。我們將繼續根據市場走向評估我們的行動。所以，我們一直在密切關注市場動態，吉利。

Thank you, Gili. And last question is from Bernie McTernan from Needham.

謝謝你，吉利。最後一個問題來自尼德姆的伯尼·麥克特南。

Jim, can you just unpack some of the comments you made about the runtime fee? Just thinking about why customer sentiment has improved so much. And then also on Grow, just any impact on -- or any thoughts on macro impact on the business and how you expect it to progress throughout the year?

吉姆，你能詳細解釋一下你之前關於運行時費用的評論嗎？我想了解為什麼客戶情緒有如此大的改善。還有，關於成長，你對業務的宏觀影響有什麼看法？你預計今年它會如何發展？

Well, so a couple of things. I think in the cold light of day, when you sit down with customers and you're talking about kind of our existing contracts and what this really kind of means and where those dollars get spent, I think people have realized, a, it's not as dire as they thought it was depending on the game and how it get monetized as it kind of varies around whether it's an app purchase or ad or whatever.

嗯，有幾點。我覺得冷靜下來之後，當你和客戶坐下來，討論我們現有的合同，以及這些合同的真正含義和資金的去向時，人們會意識到，情況並沒有他們想像的那麼糟糕，這取決於遊戲及其盈利方式，比如是應用程序內購買、廣告或其他方式。

So I think people have now are moving from worst case to a realistic view of what a runtime fee would be because we can sit down and work that through with them. And then it does create an opportunity, and I actually saw this a lot even as far back as Unite, about, let us talk about the engineering effort that goes into the runtime, forget about the Engine, the runtime and building the most performant runtime, keeping it performant and continuing to drive value into that as we go forward.

所以我認為大家現在對運行時費用的看法已經從最壞的情況轉向了更現實的設想，因為我們可以坐下來和他們一起探討這個問題。這確實創造了一個機會，事實上，早在 Unite 大會上我就經常看到這種情況：讓我們來談談運行時的工程投入，拋開引擎本身，專注於構建性能最高的運行時，保持其高性能，並在未來持續提升其價值。

And people start to say, okay, I get it. A, I'm not like immediately saying, it's 2.5% of all of my revenue. It depends, right? There's a lot of -- and you kind of work through that. And then you kind of work through and -- but here's the value on what we can drive with that. People kind of calm down. You start to have more rational conversations.

然後人們開始說，好吧，我明白了。 A，我不是馬上就說，這占我全部收入的2.5%。這要看情況，對吧？有很多因素——你需要慢慢分析。然後你再分析——但這就是我們能用它創造的價值。人們冷靜下來，開始進行更理性的對話。

I wish I could say it's more than that, but I think some of it is just from knee-jerk reaction about, "Oh my god, it's not a great time in the market. You want to charge me more" to "Well, here's what we're doing, here's the relationship, here's the value you're actually getting, and here's what it looks like it's really going to cost you."

我希望我能說原因不止於此，但我認為部分原因只是出於本能反應，比如“天哪，現在市場行情不好，你們想多收我錢”，而另一種解釋是“好吧，這就是我們正在做的事情，這就是我們之間的關係，這就是你實際獲得的價值，而這就是你真正要付出的代價”。

And the conversations kind of softened, and they become much more kind of productive for how we work together. I don't know if it's a lot more than that. It's just, I think, a little bit of sobriety after a while and a combination of moving from kind of thinking the math and worst case to actually seeing what it's likely to be.

對話的氣氛緩和了下來，也變得更有建設性，更有利於我們的合作。我不知道是不是還有其他原因。我覺得，可能是一段時間後，我們變得更加冷靜，也因為我們不再總是考慮最壞的情況，而是真正去思考事情可能發生的情況。

Great. Thanks a lot. So with that, we're going to wrap up the call. Thank you for dialing in today, and we're looking forward to meeting you during the quarter at various investor conferences. Have a great day.

好的，非常感謝。那麼，我們的電話會議就到此結束了。感謝您今天撥入電話，我們期待在本季各投資者會議上與您見面。祝您今天愉快。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。