Turning Point Brands, Inc. (TPB) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the turning point brands fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

早安，歡迎參加 Turning Point Brands 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作說明）請注意，本次活動正在錄影。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Andrew Flynn, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給財務長安德魯·弗林。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. Earlier today, we issued a press release covering our fourth quarter results available in the Investor Relations section of our website at www.turningpointbrands.com. During this call, we'll discuss consolidated and segment operating results, the operating environment and our progress against our strategic plan. Before we begin, please refer to the forward-looking statements and risk factors in our press release and SEC filings. We'll also reference certain non-GAAP financial measures.

各位早安。今天早些時候，我們發布了第四季度業績新聞稿，可在我們網站www.turningpointbrands.com的投資者關係欄位中查閱。在本次電話會議上，我們將討論合併及分部經營績效、營運環境以及我們策略計畫的進度。在開始之前，請參閱我們的新聞稿和提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中的前瞻性陳述和風險因素。我們也會參考一些非GAAP財務指標。

Reconciliations and explanations are included in today's earnings release.

今天的盈利報告中包含了對帳和解釋。

With that, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Graham Purdy.

接下來，我將把電話交給我們的執行長格雷厄姆·珀迪。

Thanks, Andrew. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining our call. We are pleased with how the year wrapped up and the momentum we built for 2026. Revenue increased 29% to $121 million for the fourth quarter, including $41.3 million in Modern Oral net revenue. Adjusted EBITDA increased 14% to $30 million for the quarter.

謝謝你，安德魯。各位早安，感謝各位參加我們的電話會議。我們對今年的收尾工作以及為 2026 年建立的勢頭感到滿意。第四季營收成長 29% 至 1.21 億美元，其中包括 Modern Oral 的 4,130 萬美元淨營收。本季調整後 EBITDA 成長 14% 至 3,000 萬美元。

We are initiating 2026 Modern Oral gross revenue guidance at a range of $220 million to $240 million in Modern Oral net revenue at a range of $180 million to $190 million. As we've stated in the past, we are ready, willing and able to increase our investment behind our white pouch brands and expect a portion of that investment to be accounted for as contra revenue under GAAP. Accordingly, we think it's valuable for us to provide transparency into difference between gross and net to evaluate our progress over time. Our focus is on building lasting consumer relationships that require front-loaded investment. Once consumers enter the franchise, we tend to see consistent repeat purchasing that supports revenue over many years.

我們首次發表 2026 年 Modern Oral 總營收預期，預計 Modern Oral 淨收入為 1.8 億美元至 1.9 億美元。正如我們過去所聲明的，我們已做好準備，願意並能夠增加對白色包裝袋品牌的投資，並期望其中一部分投資能夠根據 GAAP 會計處理為抵減收入。因此，我們認為，公開毛利和淨利之間的差異，以便評估我們隨著時間的推移所取得的進展，是有價值的。我們專注於建立持久的客戶關係，而這需要前期投入。一旦消費者加入加盟店，我們往往會看到持續的重複購買，從而在多年內支撐收入。

While this category is still in the early stages, we believe the average consumers with lifetime value could last decades.

雖然這個類別仍處於早期階段，但我們相信具有終身價值的普通消費者可以持續數十年。

In addition, we expect first quarter 2026 consolidated adjusted EBITDA to be between $24 million and $27 million. We are currently working on several significant and exciting sales and marketing initiatives and investments for white pouch that make it difficult to accurately project EBITDA beyond Q1. Obviously, when looking back at 2025, we are most pleased with the growth of our white nicotine pouch brands, they're long-lasting vibrant flavor options, comfortable mouth feel and flexible nicotine levels continue to win with consumers.

此外，我們預計 2026 年第一季合併調整後 EBITDA 將在 2,400 萬美元至 2,700 萬美元之間。我們目前正在進行幾項重要的、令人興奮的白袋銷售和行銷計劃及投資，這使得準確預測第一季之後的 EBITDA 變得困難。顯然，展望 2025 年，我們最滿意的是白色尼古丁袋品牌的成長，它們持久的濃鬱口味選擇、舒適的口感和靈活的尼古丁含量繼續贏得消費者的青睞。

Both FRE and ALP have cultivated strong brand identities that resonate with their respective consumer bases. During the quarter, net white pouch sales increased by 266% year over year and gross sales increased 337%. We continue to make progress expanding FRE's distribution to large regional and national c-store chains and ALP already one of the top D2C pouch brands in America, has started to appear on bricks-and-mortar shelves in select retailer tests. Recall that we initially expected ALP to be exclusively D2C for all of 2025. Suffice it to say, we are pleased ALP's running ahead of schedule, and we expect to significantly expand bricks-and-mortar distribution about during Q2.

FRE 和 ALP 都已培養出強大的品牌形象，能夠引起各自消費者的共鳴。本季度，白色小袋淨銷售額年增 266%，總銷售額年增 337%。我們繼續推進 FRE 的分銷通路拓展，涵蓋大型區域和全國便利商店連鎖店，而 ALP 已是美國頂級的 D2C 包裝袋品牌之一，目前已開始在部分零售商的實體店貨架上亮相。回想一下，我們最初預計 ALP 在 2025 年全年都將完全採用 D2C 模式。總而言之，我們很高興ALP的進展比計劃提前，我們預計在第二季將大幅擴大實體分銷管道。

We believe the nicotine pouch space, like most other nicotine businesses, will ultimately feature five to six widely distributed brands that command most of the market. Analysts expectations for the size of the category differ the most believable approach, if not exceed, $10 billion in manufacturers revenue by the end of the decade.

我們認為，像大多數其他尼古丁業務一樣，尼古丁袋市場最終將出現五到六個廣泛分銷的品牌，佔據大部分市場份額。分析師對該類別規模的預期各不相同，最可信的估計是，到本十年末，製造商的收入將達到 100 億美元，甚至可能超過 100 億美元。

Our Q4 performance and sales growth trajectory support our long-term target of double-digit market share in the category. In order to best position the company to capitalize on this multibillion-dollar opportunity we have made and will continue to make significant investments in the business and refine our route-to-market strategy to prioritize FRE and ALP while continuing to generate strong cash flow from our heritage brands. Key investment initiatives include reallocating sales and marketing resources, increasing the head count of our sales force, improving our online presence, ramping up investment in chain accounts, pursuing brand-enhancing partnerships, expanding to international markets and building out US manufacturing for our white pouch brands.

我們第四季的業績和銷售成長軌跡支持我們實現該品類市佔率達到兩位數的長期目標。為了讓公司能夠更好地掌握這一數十億美元的機遇，我們已經並將繼續對業務進行重大投資，並改善我們的市場通路策略，優先發展 FRE 和 ALP，同時繼續從我們的傳統品牌中產生強勁的現金流。關鍵投資舉措包括重新分配銷售和行銷資源、增加銷售人員數量、改善線上業務、加大對連鎖客戶的投資、尋求提升品牌形象的合作夥伴關係、拓展國際市場以及為我們的白色包裝袋品牌在美國建立生產基地。

We are pleased with our progress on the manufacturing front and expect to qualify the first production lines at our new Louisville factory over the next several months. We've been particularly encouraged by our ability to identify and onboard new sales talent. We are ahead of schedule in our goal of doubling the size of our sales force.

我們對製造方面的進展感到滿意，並預計在未來幾個月內完成路易斯維爾新工廠首批生產線的驗收。我們尤其感到鼓舞的是，我們有能力識別和招募新的銷售人才。我們實現銷售團隊規模翻倍的目標已經提前完成。

The rest of the Stoker's segment portfolio also performed better than expected in the quarter. Overall, Stoker's net revenue increased 70% to $81 million reflecting a 9% increase in our legacy brands and the aforementioned 266% increase in Modern Oral revenue. During the fourth quarter, Zig-Zag revenue was down 13% to $40 million and 9% sequentially. This decline was as anticipated and in line with expected opportunity costs with our laser focus on Modern Oral.

Stoker 的其他業務部門在本季也表現優於預期。總體而言，Stoker 的淨收入增長了 70%，達到 8,100 萬美元，這反映了我們傳統品牌 9% 的增長以及前面提到的 Modern Oral 收入 266% 的增長。第四季度，Zig-Zag 的營收下降了 13%，至 4,000 萬美元，季減了 9%。這一下滑符合預期，也與我們專注於現代口腔醫學所帶來的預期機會成本相符。

With that, I'll hand the call over to Summer to walk through the progress of our key go-to-market initiatives.

接下來，我會把電話交給 Summer，讓她介紹我們關鍵市場推廣計畫的進度。

Thank you, Graham. As he noted, we continue to make significant investments to support our go-to-market strategies, prioritizing FRE while also maximizing the cash flow from our legacy brands. Throughout the quarter, we continued to expand our efforts and our initiatives to support the growth of FRE, focused on sales and marketing. We remain committed to optimizing our approach to expand distribution, improving brand merchandising and ensuring adequate inventory conditions.

謝謝你，格雷厄姆。正如他所指出的，我們將繼續進行大量投資以支持我們的市場推廣策略，優先發展 FRE，同時最大限度地提高我們傳統品牌的現金流。本季度，我們繼續擴大努力和舉措，以支持 FRE 的發展，並專注於銷售和行銷。我們將繼續致力於優化分銷管道，改善品牌行銷，並確保充足的庫存。

We are seeing the early benefits of the new sales and merchandising tools referenced in prior quarters, which are enabling our sales team to secure the ideal assortment, establish shelf space and execute a premium look and feel at retail. We finished 2025 strong with our continued progress in large-scale chains and look forward to sharing further progress throughout 2026. We were grateful to have recently spent time with some of you at the sold-out Professional Bull Riding event in Madison Square Garden. These events are high octane and nationally televised providing a unique opportunity to engage with our consumer base and build brand awareness.

我們已經看到了前幾季提到的新的銷售和商品陳列工具帶來的早期效益，這些工具使我們的銷售團隊能夠確保理想的商品組合，建立貨架空間，並在零售店營造高端的形象和感覺。我們在 2025 年末取得了強勁的成績，在大規模連鎖領域持續取得進展，並期待在 2026 年與大家分享更多進展。我們很榮幸最近有機會在麥迪遜廣場花園舉行的座無虛席的職業鬥牛比賽中與你們中的一些人共度時光。這些活動精彩紛呈，並在全國電視上播出，為我們提供了一個與消費者群體互動並提升品牌知名度的獨特機會。

We look forward to sharing other opportunities that we're exploring, which align with FRE's Own Your Edge, tagline and brand ethos. With regards to Zig-Zag, we continued executing product, retail and cultural initiatives that build upon our 145-year legacy and strengthen our premium position across the segment. During the quarter, we advanced the rollout of natural leaf flat wraps, expanding distribution and awareness in this fast-growing tobacco segment. We also supported trial of our legacy paper products through targeted regional programs and sampling tied to major sporting weekends in key markets.

我們期待與大家分享我們正在探索的其他機會，這些機會與 FRE 的標語和品牌理念「掌握優勢」相契合。關於 Zig-Zag，我們繼續執行產品、零售和文化方面的舉措，以傳承我們 145 年的輝煌歷史，並鞏固我們在該領域的領先地位。本季度，我們推進了天然菸葉扁平包裝紙的推廣，擴大了在這個快速成長的菸草細分市場的分銷和認知度。我們也透過有針對性的區域項目和與重點市場重大體育賽事週末相關的抽樣活動，支持了我們傳統紙製品的試用。

We continue to advance the brand's evolution into a lifestyle platform with new apparel lines and culturally relevant brand activations that embody Zig-Zag's life fast burn slow ethos. In the quarter, we also had some exciting news from Stoker's with the launch of a new flanker brand, Stoker's Proud. Stoker's Proud offers a traditional long cut while delivering the same 100% American-made quality dip that Stoker's is known for. It's designed to attract value-seeking can consumers while insulating the broader brand from category pricing pressure. We'll share more about this expansion in coming quarters.

我們不斷推動品牌向生活風格平台的轉型，推出新的服裝系列和具有文化相關性的品牌活動，體現 Zig-Zag 「快節奏生活，慢節奏人生」的理念。本季度，Stoker's 也帶來了一些令人興奮的消息，推出了一個新的側翼品牌 Stoker's Proud。Stoker's Proud 提供傳統的長切蘸醬，同時保持 Stoker's 一貫的 100% 美國製造的高品質蘸醬。它旨在吸引追求性價比的罐裝產品消費者，同時使整個品牌免受品類價格壓力的影響。我們將在未來幾季分享更多關於此次擴張的資訊。

In closing, we continue to build our brands for the long term, execute and deliver against our omnichannel plan and win consumers. Our focus is to prioritize strategic investments that maximize the value of our world-class brands and further strengthen and leverage our distribution capabilities.

最後，我們將繼續著眼長遠，打造我們的品牌，執行並實現我們的全通路計劃，贏得消費者。我們的重點是優先進行策略性投資，以最大限度地發揮我們世界一流品牌的價值，並進一步加強和利用我們的分銷能力。

Let me now turn the call back over to Andrew to go through our financial results.

現在我把電話轉回給安德魯，讓他來介紹我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Summer. Sales were up 29% year over year to $121 million for the quarter. Growth was driven primarily by Modern Oral, while we continue to invest in sales and marketing to support that expansion. For the quarter, gross margin was 55.9%, which is flat versus last year. Reported SG&A was $47.7 million for the quarter, which was up $3.1 million sequentially, the increase is driven by our planned commitment to invest in Modern Oral related sales and marketing as well as increased outbound freight charges.

謝謝你，薩默。本季銷售額年增 29%，達到 1.21 億美元。成長主要由 Modern Oral 推動，同時我們將繼續投資銷售和行銷以支持這項擴張。本季毛利率為 55.9%，與去年同期持平。本季度報告的銷售、一般及行政費用為 4,770 萬美元，比上一季增加了 310 萬美元，成長主要得益於我們計劃投資於 Modern Oral 相關銷售和行銷，以及出境貨運費用的增加。

Adjusted EBITDA was up 14% year over year to $30 million for the quarter, at a 24.8% margin.

本季調整後 EBITDA 年增 14% 至 3,000 萬美元，利潤率為 24.8%。

Going into segment performance. Zig-Zag segment net sales were down 13% year over year to $40 million for the quarter, which was in line with our expectations. For the quarter, Zig-Zag gross margin was 54.6%, which was up 40 basis points versus last year. Stoker's segment net sales increased 70% year over year to $81 million for the quarter. The Stoker's segment now accounts for 67% of consolidated net sales.

進入分段績效分析。Zig-Zag 業務部門本季淨銷售額年減 13% 至 4,000 萬美元，符合我們的預期。本季度，Zig-Zag 的毛利率為 54.6%，比去年同期成長了 40 個基點。Stoker 部門本季淨銷售額年增 70%，達到 8,100 萬美元。司爐業務目前佔合併淨銷售額的 67%。

Legacy Stoker's brands increased by 9% year over year to $39.7 million for the quarter, driven by continued share growth in MST that was partially offset by anticipated declines in loose leaf.

Legacy Stoker 旗下品牌本季年增 9%，達到 3,970 萬美元，主要得益於 MST 的持續市佔率成長，但部分被預期中的散裝菸草銷量下滑所抵銷。

Modern Oral nicotine pouch net sales FRE and ALP were up 266% yearover year achieving total revenue of $41.3 million. For the quarter, white pouch now accounts for 34% of consolidated net sales, up from 12% a year ago. We ended the quarter with $222.8 million of cash. Free cash flow for the fourth quarter was $19.2 million. CapEx for the quarter was $3.3 million.

現代口服尼古丁袋淨銷售額 FRE 和 ALP 年增 266%，總收入達 4,130 萬美元。本季度，白色小袋裝產品佔合併淨銷售額的 34%，高於去年同期的 12%。本季末，我們持有現金2.228億美元。第四季自由現金流為1920萬美元。本季資本支出為330萬美元。

On to guidance and other items, as previously noted, we are initiating full year 2026 Modern Oral gross sales guidance of $220 million to $240 million and net sales guidance of $180 million to $190 million. We expect first quarter 2026 EBITDA of $24 million to $27 million, inclusive of increased white pouch sales and marketing investments.

關於績效指引和其他事項，如前所述，我們初步預測 2026 年全年 Modern Oral 的總銷售額為 2.2 億美元至 2.4 億美元，淨銷售額為 1.8 億美元至 1.9 億美元。我們預計 2026 年第一季 EBITDA 為 2,400 萬美元至 2,700 萬美元，其中包括白袋銷售額的成長和行銷投資。

For modeling purposes, the effective income tax range is 23% to 26% on a go-forward basis. Budgeted CapEx for 2026 is $4 million to $5 million, exclusive of projects related to our Modern Oral business. We expect to spend between $3 million to $5 million for the full year to supplement our Modern Oral PMTAs.

為便於建模，未來實際所得稅率範圍為 23% 至 26%。2026 年的預算資本支出為 400 萬至 500 萬美元，不包括與我們的現代口腔業務相關的項目。我們預計全年將花費 300 萬至 500 萬美元來補充我們的現代口腔 PMTA。

Now let me turn it back to Graham.

現在讓我把話題轉回給葛拉漢。

To conclude, we are pleased with our year-end results and excited about our prospects for 2026.

總之，我們對年終業績感到滿意，並對 2026 年的前景感到興奮。

I'll now turn it over to questions.

現在我將把提問環節交給各位。

(Operator Instructions) Eric Des Lauriers, Craig-Hallum Capital Group.

（操作說明）Eric Des Lauriers，Craig-Hallum Capital Group。

Congrats on another very impressive quarter here. First one for me on the investment opportunity. So you mentioned you're already willing and able to invest in nicotine pouch growth this year. It sounds like you have some investments picking up in Q1 with that EBITDA guide. Just wondering if you could provide a bit more color on the sales and marketing sort of opportunities that you see in front of you right now?

恭喜你們又取得了一個非常出色的季度業績。這是我接觸到的第一個投資機會。所以你提到你今年已經願意並且能夠投資尼古丁袋市場的發展。根據 EBITDA 指引，看來你們的一些投資項目將在第一季有所成長。我想請您詳細介紹一下您目前看到的銷售和行銷方面的機會？

And just how we should be thinking about that for this year?

那麼，今年我們該如何看待這個問題呢？

Eric, Andrew here. So yes, the way we're thinking about the EBITDA guide is that we are investing in sales and marketing. And we're also preparing ourselves for the launch of ALP in bricks and mortar in Q2. So we'll need to invest dollars upfront in order to have a successful launch in the second quarter.

埃里克，我是安德魯。所以，是的，我們對 EBITDA 指標的理解是，我們正在投資銷售和行銷。我們也在為ALP在第二季推出實體店做準備。因此，我們需要預先投入資金，才能在第二季成功推出產品。

All right. That's helpful. And then on domestic production, it's nice to hear the progress there. I think you said initial lines to be qualified in the coming months. Could you just expand on the domestic production outlook for the year, whether that's how many lines you expect to bring online?

好的。那很有幫助。至於國內生產方面，很高興聽到那方面的進展。我想你之前說過，初步的線路將在未來幾個月內獲得資格認證。能否詳細說明今年的國內生產前景，例如預計有多少條生產線將投產？

Or how do you think about the mix of domestic versus international production and how that should evolve throughout the year?

或者，您如何看待國內生產與國際生產的組合，以及這種組合在一年中應該如何演變？

Yes. So we expect to qualify the lines in the next couple of months. And really, what we've done is we've -- in 2025, we spent CapEx dollars on investments in infrastructure of the building. These are things like HVAC systems, electrical, plumbing, et cetera. We've got those lines and those lines are becoming more efficient week by week.

是的。因此，我們預計將在未來幾個月內完成線路的認證。實際上，我們所做的就是——在 2025 年，我們將資本支出資金用於投資建築物的基礎設施。這些包括暖通空調系統、電氣系統、管道系統等等。我們已經建立了這些生產線，而且這些生產線的效率每週都在提高。

So we're encouraged with the progress that they've made.

我們對他們的進展感到鼓舞。

We will have -- we will continue to use our Indian partner because both brands are growing. And so the US will supplement the growth. So we think that between the two locations, we'll have no supply chain constraints, in terms of enhanced margins, it's going to take a while to get the inventory out of the -- in the US and through our P&L.

我們將繼續與我們的印度合作夥伴合作，因為這兩個品牌都在成長。因此，美國將為經濟成長提供補充。因此我們認為，在這兩個地點之間，我們不會受到供應鏈的限制，就提高利潤率而言，需要一段時間才能將庫存從美國清空併計入我們的損益表。

So we expect to see some green shoots in margin enhancements towards the end of the year.

因此，我們預計到年底利潤率將出現一些改善跡象。

But one thing I will say is what we're doing to help with the margin profile is we are very much focused on freight. Our inbound freight. There are some opportunities for us to optimize there, and we've taken advantage of that.

但我必須指出的是，為了改善利潤率，我們正在非常重視貨運。我們的入境貨物。我們有一些可以優化的機會，我們也充分利用了這些機會。

Ian Zaffino, Oppenheimer.

伊恩·扎菲諾，奧本海默。

As far as the investment and the ramp of Modern Oral, what should we expect as far as timing of all this investment? And maybe the better way to ask it is what does that investment look like exiting '26? So how much will it come down? And maybe what are your view as kind of a sustainable rate?

就 Modern Oral 的投資和發展而言，我們應該對所有這些投資的時間安排抱持怎樣的預期？或許更好的問法是：到 2026 年結束時，這項投資會是什麼樣子？那麼價格會下降多少呢？那麼，您認為一個比較可持續的價格是多少呢？

Yes. I think the way we're thinking about it is that the investment will be somewhat lumpy through the year as we see opportunities to invest that we think are high ROI projects, we will do that. And so to give you an exact figure in terms of investment ratio, I think it's going to be -- it's going to modulate quarter to quarter.

是的。我認為我們目前的考慮方式是，投資額在這一年會有些波動，因為我們會尋找我們認為投資報酬率高的項目來投資。因此，要給出一個確切的投資比率數字，我認為它會——它會逐季度波動。

Okay. And then would you be able to give us kind of a sense of what to expect as far as the store count ramp for ALP? Should it be similar to what we've seen in FRE recently? Just maybe use that as a benchmark.

好的。那麼，您能否大致介紹一下ALP門市數量的成長預期？它是否應該與我們最近在FRE中看到的情況類似？或許可以把它當作一個基準。

Yes. Thanks, Ian. Look, I think that we're, number one, incredibly excited about the ALP launch in Q2. We've laid some groundwork here as of late. And so we think that we're going to come out of the gate very strong there.

是的。謝謝你，伊恩。首先，我認為我們對第二季 ALP 的推出感到無比興奮。最近我們已經為此做了一些基礎工作。所以我們認為我們會在那裡強勢開局。

As we think about it, we're entering 2026 with a ton of enthusiasm and a ton of excitement around both potential for FRE and ALP and really putting some investment dollars behind that to yield the strong growth. That said, we think that the store count growth will probably look similar to the sort of early days of the FRE launch. As we focus in and hone in on areas where we've gotten free distribution currently, so we can round up the portfolio inside of those particular retail stores. And we have a specific focus around fee this year with chain wins. So we're pretty excited about sort of all the above relative to both FRE and ALP.

仔細想想，我們即將進入 2026 年，對 FRE 和 ALP 的潛力都充滿熱情和興奮，並且真的投入了一些投資資金，以期實現強勁增長。也就是說，我們認為門市數量的成長情況可能會與 FRE 推出初期的情況類似。我們將重點放在目前已獲得免費分銷的地區，以便完善這些特定零售店內的產品組合。今年我們特別關注費用問題，並爭取在連鎖企業中獲勝。所以，對於以上所有與FRE和ALP相關的方面，我們都感到非常興奮。

Aaron Grey, Alliance Global Partners.

Aaron Grey，Alliance Global Partners。

First question for me. I just want to piggyback off the last one here and maybe focus more on that free distribution, which you just alluded to there, Graham. So I appreciate the color that you provided on ALP distribution, but for FRE, which has been kind of the main horse for brick-and-mortar distribution.

我的第一個問題是：我只是想藉用你剛才提到的免費分發方式，格雷厄姆。我很欣賞你對 ALP 分銷的見解，但對於 FRE 來說，它一直是實體分銷的主要力量。

It seems like you still see some opportunities for wins in white space in 2026. So maybe some more color in terms of expectations there? And you mentioned some change there, so I know that can be sometimes a big step change in uncertainty in terms of the timing. So any color there would be appreciated.

看來你仍然認為在 2026 年的空白市場中存在一些獲勝的機會。那麼，或許可以再詳細說說大家的預期？你提到了一些變化，所以我知道這有時會帶來時間上的不確定性，帶來很大的改變。所以任何顏色都會很受歡迎。

Yes. Look, I think that there's still tremendous amount of store opportunity out there in both sort of the chain environment, which we view as substantial at this point in time. as well as continued growth in our independent customers. We also see green shoots relative to the level of distribution that we have in stores and specifically our share of shelf and what we see in our internal in terms of what that yields. So it's not necessarily at all times about raw store count adds.

是的。我認為，無論是在連鎖店領域（我們目前認為這方面潛力巨大），還是在獨立客戶群中，仍然存在著巨大的門市發展機會，而且我們的獨立客戶群也在持續成長。我們還看到，就我們在商店的分銷水平，特別是我們的貨架份額以及我們在內部看到的收益而言，都出現了復甦的跡象。所以，關鍵並不一定總是在於新增門市數量。

It's about the maturity of each of the stores that we get in distribution and making sure that we're winning inside those specific stores, but we do expect continued store growth this year. It may be a little bit lumpy relative to when chains come online, but we continue to expect upward trajectory there.

關鍵在於我們分銷通路中每家門市的成熟度，以及確保我們在這些特定門市中取得成功，但我們確實預計今年門市數量將繼續增長。雖然與各條生產線上線的時間相比，目前的情況可能略有波動，但我們仍預期其發展趨勢將呈現上升態勢。

I appreciate the detail there. Second question for me. I just wanted to get some control of how are you thinking about innovation in the category, the need to stay ahead on that front as other large players aim to introduce new products, particularly given the FDA's new fast track PMTA program.

我很欣賞你注重細節這一點。我的第二個問題。我只是想了解你們是如何看待該領域的創新，以及在其他大型企業都致力於推出新產品的情況下，你們需要在這一領域保持領先地位，尤其是在FDA推出新的快速通道PMTA計劃之後。

So I know we've talked about flavors a lot, but also more it seems like that's a big initiative for some of the larger players. So how are you thinking about innovation in the category? Any color there would be helpful.

我知道我們已經討論了很多關於口味的問題，但似乎對於一些大型企業來說，這更是一項重要的舉措。那麼，您如何看待該領域的創新？任何顏色都會有所幫助。

Yes. Look, I think our first focus is winning with the existing products that we have. We think we have a tremendous edge relative to our flavor profiles, our satisfaction levels within our product, our moisture level, the majority of the category today is sold in sort of the mint and wintergreen environment. We feel very confident that we're sort of covered up where the biggest portion of the market is.

是的。我認為，我們首要的任務是依賴現有產品贏得市場。我們認為，在口味、產品滿意度、水分含量方面，我們擁有巨大的優勢，而目前該類別的大部分產品都是以薄荷和冬青口味為主的。我們非常有信心，我們已經基本上涵蓋了市場份額最大的部分。

In terms of long-term innovation, as we continue to grow our store count, we continue to grow the business, we certainly see opportunities down the road to make some investments behind additional flavor options. But at this point in time, we think we've got a portfolio with both FRE and ALP that we can win.

就長期創新而言，隨著我們門市數量的不斷增加，業務的不斷增長，我們當然看到了未來在增加口味選擇方面進行一些投資的機會。但就目前而言，我們認為我們擁有一個包含 FRE 和 ALP 的投資組合，我們可以贏得市場。

Nick Anderson, ROTH Capital Partners.

Nick Anderson，ROTH Capital Partners。

First one for me, just on nicotine pouch consumption, it looks like US consumers are using more on a per day basis than they were a year ago. But that's still well below some of the more developed international regions. Just curious how you see growth evolving in this industry near term? Will it be more from existing consumers using more or new users entering the category?

首先，就尼古丁袋的消費量而言，美國消費者似乎比一年前每天的消費量還要高。但這仍然遠低於一些較發達的國際地區。我很好奇您如何看待這個產業近期內的成長趨勢？是現有消費者增加使用量，還是新用戶進入該類別？

Any color there would be helpful.

任何顏色都會有所幫助。

I think the great news is both. And as you pointed out, the consumption patterns of existing consumers continues to grow as Modern Oral becomes a greater share of their nicotine requirements. And as you see the growth in the category, certainly, we're seeing consumer uptake from other tobacco products, specifically cigarettes and even vapes. So I think it's just a tremendous opportunity where sort of both provide growth vectors for the category.

我認為好消息是兩者都是。正如你所指出的，隨著現代口服尼古丁產品在現有消費者的尼古丁需求中所佔比例越來越大，他們的消費模式也不斷成長。如您所看到的，該品類的成長，無疑也反映了消費者從其他菸草產品（特別是香菸甚至電子煙）轉向了電子煙。所以我認為這是一個巨大的機遇，兩者都能為該品類提供成長動力。

I appreciate that. Second one for me on the tax landscape within Modern Oral, but we're seeing several safe considering tax hikes on nicotine pouches. Just wondering if you could provide some color on the potential for these increases this year. And just how that might impact the pricing and promotional environment going forward?

我很感激。這是我關注的現代口腔療法中的第二個稅務問題，但考慮到尼古丁袋的稅收上漲，我們看到一些安全措施。我想請您介紹一下今年這些成長的可能性。那又會對未來的定價和促銷環境產生怎樣的影響呢？

Yes. So taxes are something that the tobacco companies have dealt with for decades now. And I think the good news on the tax front is if you think about taxation in a specific state level, it impacts every product that's within that state. So there's no disadvantage for one manufacturer or another manufacturer relative to the tax landscape.

是的。所以，菸草公司幾十年來一直在處理稅務問題。我認為稅收方面的好消息是，如果你考慮特定州的稅收，它會影響州內的每種產品。因此，在稅收環境下，各個製造商之間不存在任何劣勢。

We would anticipate that taxes will -- over the long haul, will continue to grow and look more like sort of the existing tobacco products. But for us, that -- the absolute opportunity of winning inside the states where taxes are aren't at this point in time, that doesn't really matter to us because playing fields level, and we think we've got a winning product.

我們預計，從長遠來看，稅收將繼續增長，並且越來越像現有的菸草產品。但對我們來說，在目前稅收不高的州贏得比賽的絕對機會，對我們來說並不重要，因為競爭環境是公平的，我們認為我們擁有一個成功的產品。

Gerald Pascarelli, Needham & Company.

Gerald Pascarelli，Needham & Company。

Great. I know you don't provide a breakout by brand, understandable, but I was hoping that you could maybe broadly unpack for us the revenue performance between FRE and ALP this quarter. Just wondering specifically if you saw a slowdown in ALPs D2C growth or if you had better-than-expected performance in FRE, which we know is lower gross margin?

偉大的。我知道你們沒有按品牌細分數據，這可以理解，但我希望你們能大致為我們分析一下本季 FRE 和 ALP 之間的營收表現。我只是想具體了解一下，ALPs D2C 的成長是否放緩，或者 FRE 的業績是否好於預期（我們知道 FRE 的毛利率較低）？

So the basis of the question is just trying to reconcile some of the drivers behind the negative mix that you cited in terms of the Stoker's segment level gross margin in the quarter. So any color there would be great.

所以，這個問題的根本目的在於試圖調和您提到的導致本季 Stoker 部門毛利率下降的一些因素。所以任何顏色都行。

Yes. For internal reasons, we haven't split out specifically ALP in FRE. But what I can say is both brands performed within our expectation in the quarter.

是的。出於內部原因，我們沒有專門將 ALP 拆分為 FRE。但我可以肯定的是，這兩個品牌在本季度都達到了我們的預期。

Okay. And then for Graham, just I guess, a high-level question. Now that we're through year one of the white pouch rollout, if you could just talk about any learnings you've had where you view the biggest white space opportunities from a distribution perspective? And how you balance getting into some of these larger national chains, which are seemingly more expensive versus maybe doubling back to retail locations where you're currently present and where you've done very well historically to get more shelf space and more facings to build out your presence at some of these retail locations you're currently in? So any color there would be great.

好的。然後，我想問格雷厄姆一個比較高層次的問題。既然我們已經完成了白色包裝袋推廣的第一年，您能否談談您在分銷方面有哪些經驗教訓，以及您認為最大的空白市場機會在哪裡？那麼，如何平衡進駐一些大型全國連鎖店（這些連鎖店似乎成本更高）與回到你目前已經入駐且過去業績良好的零售地點，獲得更多貨架空間和更多展示面，從而擴大你在這些零售地點的影響力之間的關係呢？所以任何顏色都行。

Sure. Sort of reference prior answer here on this call. Sort of green shoots all over the place for us. When you think about the leaning into ALP and the retail distribution there as we ramp that tons of white space. It's virtually all white space for ALP out there, FRE still a tremendous amount of store level distribution opportunities.

當然。這裡算是對之前電話會議的回答的一種參考。我們這裡到處都冒出了新芽。當你考慮到我們大力發展ALP和零售分銷業務，以及由此帶來的大量空白市場。ALP 目前幾乎完全是空白市場，FRE 仍有大量的門市層級分銷機會。

Still a tremendous amount of opportunities relative to expanding the portfolio inside of existing stores.

在現有門市中拓展產品組合方面，仍存在大量的機會。

And so we're focused on really all of the above because we think that there's so much opportunity out there. We've made a tremendous amount of investment in our sales force to really solidify sort of the ground troops to be able to go out and tackle that opportunity. You can see sort of how we're thinking about this coming year and ramping up our investment, we think that there's opportunities to invest in trade programs. There's opportunities to invest in further strategic partnerships to build out our brand profiles.

因此，我們專注於以上所有方面，因為我們認為外面有很多機會。我們對銷售團隊進行了大量投資，以真正鞏固基層力量，從而能夠走出去抓住這個機會。你可以看出我們對來年的規劃以及加強投資力度的決心，我們認為在貿易項目方面存在投資機會。我們有機會投資建立更多策略夥伴關係，以提升我們的品牌形象。

And so ultimately, what we think is long term, brands are going to win in this space. And for us, we think about ALP as probably one of the leading sort of brand properties in the space given the connection there. The large D2C footprint, FRE has done a great job relative to leaning into its equities with the Pro Bull Riding association partnership. We think that there's other opportunities out there that we're incredibly excited to invest behind. And so I think that it's really all of the above, more stores, more facings, more product in there for both FRE and ALP.

因此，從長遠來看，我們認為品牌最終會在這個領域取得成功。對我們來說，鑑於ALP與我們之間的聯繫，我們認為它可能是該領域領先的品牌資產之一。FRE 擁有龐大的 D2C 業務，並且在利用其股權與職業鬥牛協會建立合作關係方面做得非常出色。我們認為還有其他一些機會值得我們大力投資。所以我認為，這其實是以上所有因素共同作用的結果，FRE 和 ALP 都需要更多的門市、更多的陳列面和更多的產品。

And we think as we continue to build the brand profiles that we have a winning combination and ultimately, our goal is to be a strong challenger brand in the space where we think, the combination of those two brands could achieve a number four position in the space and maybe with a little bit of upside.

我們認為，隨著我們不斷打造品牌形象，我們擁有了致勝的組合，最終，我們的目標是成為該領域強大的挑戰者品牌，我們認為，這兩個品牌的結合可以達到該領域第四名的位置，並且可能還有一些上升空間。

I do want to circle back to your first question about the gross margin performance in Stoker's. So one thing to keep in mind is that we had an elevated tariff rate in the fourth quarter. And so that had an impact on the Stoker's margins because of the white pouch. We did -- we had an add-back in EBITDA, but that's in the adjusted EBITDA. It's not in the gross margins.

我想回到你最初關於 Stoker's 毛利率表現的問題。所以要記住的一點是，我們在第四季實施了較高的關稅稅率。因此，由於白色袋子的存在，這影響了司爐工的利潤。我們確實在 EBITDA 中加回了一項，但這在調整後的 EBITDA 中。它不計入毛利率。

This concludes our question-and-answer session, and I will now hand the call back over to Graham for any closing comments.

我們的問答環節到此結束，現在我將把電話交還給格雷厄姆，請他作最後的總結發言。

Thank you, operator. Really appreciate everybody getting on the call. We feel great about how we finished 2025. And I can tell you how enthusiastic and excited we are about the opportunities in front of us in 2026. So we look forward to talking to you in a few months here, and we'll talk to you then.

謝謝接線生。非常感謝大家參與電話會議。我們對2025年的收尾工作感到非常滿意。我可以告訴你們，我們對 2026 年擺在我們面前的機會感到多麼熱情和興奮。所以，我們期待幾個月後在這裡與您交談，到時我們會與您聯繫。

This concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。