Telkom Indonesia (Persero) Tbk PT (TLK) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to PT Telcom earnings call for the first-quarter of 2025. We will start with an overview from our CEO of Telkom Indonesia, followed by Q&A sessions.

女士們，先生們，歡迎參加 PT Telcom 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。我們將首先聽取 Telkom Indonesia 執行長的概述，然後進行問答環節。

Before we start, let me remind you that today's calls and the responses to questions may contain forward-looking statement within the meaning of Safe Harbor. Actual results could differ naturally from projections or estimates that may involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to be different from what we have discussed today.

在我們開始之前，請允許我提醒您，今天的電話會議和對問題的回答可能包含安全港含義內的前瞻性聲明。實際結果可能與預測或估計自然不同，可能涉及風險和不確定性，導致實際結果與我們今天討論的結果不同。

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure now to introduce Telkom's Board of Directors who are joining us today. bapa Ririek Adriansyah, as President, Director and CEO; bapa Heri Supriadi as Finance and Risk Management Director; bapa Bogi Witjaksono, as Wholesale, International Service Director; bapa Budi Setyawan Wijaya, as Strategic Portfolio Director; and bapa Fajrin Rasyid, as Digital Business Directors; bapa Afriwandi as Human Capital Management Directors.

女士們、先生們，我現在很高興向大家介紹今天加入我們的 Telkom 董事會。 bapa Ririek Adriansyah，總裁、董事兼首席執行官； bapa Heri Supriadi 擔任財務和風險管理總監； bapa Bogi Witjaksono，批發、國際服務總監； bapa Budi Setyawan Wijaya，擔任戰略投資組合總監；和 bapa Fajrin Rasyid，擔任數字業務總監； bapa Afriwandi 擔任人力資本管理總監。

Also joining us through online, ibu FM Venusiana, as Enterprise and Business Service Directors, and bapa Honesti Basyir, as Group Business Development Directors. Also present as the Board Directors of Telkomsel, bapa Nugroho, as President Directors; and bapa Adiwinahyu Basuki Sigit, as Sales Director.

另外，透過線上加入我們的還有 FM Venusiana 先生，擔任企業和業務服務總監，以及 Honesti Basyir 先生，擔任集團業務發展總監。同時擔任 Telkomsel 董事會董事的巴帕·努格羅霍 (bapa Nugroho) 擔任總裁； bapa Adiwinahyu Basuki Sigit 擔任銷售總監。

I now hand over the call to Telkom Indonesia President Directors and CEO, bapa Ririek Adriansyah for his overview.

我現在將電話轉交給 Telkom Indonesia 總裁兼執行長 bapa Ririek Adriansyah，聽聽他的概述。

Thank you, Oky. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Telkom Indonesia earnings call for the first quarter of 2025 result. We appreciate your participation in this call. The first quarter of 2025 presented a mixed economic landscape for the Indonesian economy.

謝謝你，Oky。女士們、先生們，午安。歡迎參加印尼電信 2025 年第一季業績電話會議。我們感謝您參加本次電話會議。2025 年第一季度，印尼經濟呈現喜憂參半的局面。

However, Telkom Group demonstrated resilience and strategic agility in navigating softness in consumer spending as we continue to see the momentum in our consumer business driven by healthy data payload growth and broadband penetration, coupled with digital infrastructure demand and solution from wholesale and international and enterprise business.

然而，Telkom 集團在應對消費者支出疲軟方面表現出了韌性和戰略敏捷性，我們繼續看到消費者業務的發展勢頭，這得益於健康的數據有效載荷增長和寬頻普及率，以及批發、國際和企業業務對數位基礎設施的需求和解決方案。

Relatively benign investment at 1.03% year on year in March of 2025 provided some support for consumer demand during Lebaran festive. Bank Indonesia also remains accommodative with benchmark rate at 5.75%, safeguarding the economy and exchange rate volatility from risk of sentiment due to concern on trade tariffs from the US.

2025年3月投資年增1.03%，相對溫和，為開齋節期間的消費需求提供了一定支撐。印尼央行也維持寬鬆的基準利率於 5.75%，以保護經濟和匯率波動免受因擔心美國貿易關稅而產生的情緒風險。

Nevertheless, in line with potentially slower global growth from geopolitical developments and tariff barrier, Bank Indonesia refines down its growth expectation for Indonesian economy in 2025, reflecting the potential weakness in the domestic economy with largely defected consumer spending and priorities.

然而，由於地緣政治發展和關稅壁壘可能導致全球經濟成長放緩，印尼央行下調了對 2025 年印尼經濟的成長預期，反映出國內經濟可能疲軟，消費者支出和優先事項大幅下降。

Looking ahead, in growing digital economy and underserved regions presents substantial opportunities, and we remain focused on driving innovation, accelerating digital adoption and strengthening partnership to capture long term value.

展望未來，不斷增長的數位經濟和服務欠缺地區蘊藏著巨大的機遇，我們將繼續專注於推動創新、加速數位化應用和加強合作夥伴關係，以獲取長期價值。

Going forward, we continue to use discipline process to support market repair to ensure sustainability in value creation. At the end of March 2025, converts ratio moderated to 55%, in line with mobile subscriber inflection driven by seasonal factors and our prudent selective approach amid ongoing macroeconomic headwinds to focus on quality customers.

展望未來，我們將繼續利用紀律流程來支持市場修復，以確保價值創造的可持續性。截至 2025 年 3 月底，轉換率降至 55%，這與季節性因素推動的行動用戶變化以及我們在持續的宏觀經濟逆風中採取的審慎選擇方法相一致，重點關注優質客戶。

We think the foundation for stronger future growth, Telkom continued to focus on sustainable long-term growth by focusing on renewal optimization and conducted product simplification in the first quarter of 2025. However, given the relatively weak macro backdrop, we think the sectoral recovery will largely be dependent on economic recovery as well.

我們認為，為實現未來更強勁的成長，Telkom 將繼續專注於可持續的長期成長，重點是更新優化並在 2025 年第一季進行產品簡化。然而，鑑於宏觀背景相對疲軟，我們認為產業復甦很大程度上也將取決於經濟復甦。

As part of the 5 Bold Moves strategy in our corporate transformation group ensure that all business processes achieve Efficient results with no duplication processes. One of the strategic initiative to lower CapEx (technical difficulty) consumer premises equipment and networks have improved quite meaningfully due to the group procurement initiative.

作為我們企業轉型小組五大大膽舉措策略的一部分，確保所有業務流程實現高效結果，且不存在重複流程。降低資本支出（技術難度）的策略性舉措之一是由於集團採購舉措，消費者場所設備和網路得到了相當顯著的改善。

This has been evidenced by our ability to serve broader market segmentation, notably in our consumer business segment. Such a group negotiation process has additionally positive impact to digital content offering. Which in the end started to a better experience for our end customer and (inaudible) content cost for the company.

我們服務於更廣泛的市場區隔的能力，特別是在消費者業務領域，證明了這一點。這樣的集體協商過程對於數位內容的提供也有正面的影響。這最終為我們的最終客戶提供了更好的體驗，並為公司降低了（聽不清楚）內容成本。

PT Telkom Infrastructure Indonesia or TIF continues to make steady progress in its journey toward operational and commercial phases and driving long term value creation in alignment with 5 Bold Moves transformation initiative.

PT Telkom Infrastructure Indonesia（簡稱 TIF）在邁向營運和商業階段的道路上繼續穩步前進，並根據「五大大膽舉措」轉型計劃推動長期價值創造。

Going forward, TIF will continue to assume a dedicated role in the provision of wholesale fiber connectivity services, including the direct management of connectivity-related contracts for customers.

展望未來，TIF 將繼續致力於提供批次發射纖連接服務，包括直接管理與客戶連線相關的合約。

Moving on to our B2B segment, we remain agile while staying focused on driving long term sustainable revenue growth. The business continues to deliver positive contributions supported by deeper market penetration and strengthen our capabilities.

轉向我們的 B2B 領域，我們保持敏捷，同時專注於推動長期可持續的收入成長。透過更深入的市場滲透和增強我們的能力，該業務繼續做出積極貢獻。

Additionally, our commitment to advancing digital connectivity continues to bear fruit driven by the expansion of our platform, particularly in data centers and cloud services, which serve as a key enabler to offer the script.

此外，我們致力於推動數位連接的承諾繼續取得成果，這得益於我們平台的擴展，特別是資料中心和雲端服務，它們是提供腳本的關鍵推動因素。

Apart from organic capacity expansion, we are in the final stages of selecting a strategic partner. This collaboration will help us unlock further value and leverage our partners' expertise in managing and scaling our data center business, which create long term sustainability value to the group. We aim to conclude this initiative in 2025.

除了有機產能擴張之外，我們還處於選擇策略夥伴的最後階段。此次合作將幫助我們釋放更多價值，並利用合作夥伴在管理和擴展資料中心業務方面的專業知識，為集團創造長期可持續的價值。我們的目標是在 2025 年完成這項計劃。

Before I handle for the session to Heri Supriadi, Telkom Indonesia, Director of Finance and Risks Management to give you an overview of the first quarter of 2025, allow me to conclude that industry dynamic, including macroeconomic factors, competitive market dynamic and shifting consumer behavior will continue to influence sector performance in 2025.

在我請印尼電信公司財務和風險管理總監 Heri Supriadi 為大家概述 2025 年第一季的情況之前，請容我總結一下：產業動態，包括宏觀經濟因素、競爭性市場動態和不斷變化的消費者行為，將繼續影響 2025 年的產業表現。

While legacy revenue headwinds persists, positive momentum in data usage, industry consolidation and a rational pricing environmental signal opportunities for sustainable growth. Thank you very much.

儘管傳統的收入阻力仍然存在，但數據使用、行業整合和合理定價環境的積極勢頭預示著可持續增長的機會。非常感謝。

Thank you, Ririek. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. In the first quarter of 2025, Telkom Group recorded marginal revenue contraction of 2.1% year on year to IDR36.6 trillion due to softer digital business revenue, which was largely affected by muted consumer spending during the Lebaran festive.

謝謝你，Ririek。女士們、先生們，午安。2025 年第一季度，Telkom 集團營收年減 2.1% 至 36.6 兆印尼盾，原因是開齋節期間消費者支出低迷，導致數位業務收入疲軟。

Nevertheless, fixed broadband business posted a positive growth, demonstrating this silent amid broader economic contraction, particularly in Japan, where macroeconomic sensitively has been more pronounced. Digital infrastructure business also growing possibly indicating healthy need for the connectivity.

儘管如此，固定寬頻業務仍實現了正成長，顯示在整體經濟萎縮的情況下，尤其是在宏觀經濟敏感性更為明顯的日本，這種成長顯得微不足道。數位基礎設施業務也在成長，這可能表明對連接的需求旺盛。

Healthy data payload growth of 19.8% year on year was driven by a combination of strategies, aimed to enhance sub-cyber productivity via stronger customer engagement on digital content and execution of FMC strategy, deeper engagement strategy by providing integrated digital services through bundle offering is aimed to enhance household value proposition.

數據有效載荷年增 19.8%，這得益於多種策略的共同推動，旨在透過加強客戶對數位內容的參與和執行 FMC 策略來提高網絡下生產力，透過捆綁提供綜合數位服務的更深入的參與策略旨在增強家庭價值主張。

EBITDA during the first quarter of 2025 reached IDR18.2 trillion, reflecting a year-on-year moderation of 6.1%. This softer growth was primarily driven by macroeconomic headwinds that impacted operating revenue and affected our economies of scale. In addition, (inaudible) containing recognition resulted in a higher reported cost-based consequently, our EBITDA margin temporarily declined to 49.8% during the quarter.

2025 年第一季的 EBITDA 達到 18.2 兆印尼盾，較去年同期下降 6.1%。成長放緩主要是由於宏觀經濟逆風影響了營業收入和規模經濟。此外，（聽不清楚）包含確認導致報告成本更高，因此，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率在本季暫時下降至 49.8%。

In the first quarter of 2025, total expenses were within control, declining by 1% year-on-year to IDR26.2 trillion, while operating expenses grew slightly by 2.2% year on year to IDR18.4 trillion. The moderation in our overall cost indicates our continuing cost discipline for both fixed and variable components. Nevertheless, personal expenses saw an uptake by 0.7% year on year to IDR4.2 trillion following the implementation of new regulation related to employee income tax.

2025年第一季度，總支出在可控制範圍內，年減1%至26.2兆印尼盾，而營運支出較去年小幅增加2.2%至18.4兆印尼盾。我們總體成本的適度下降表明我們對固定和可變部分的成本控制持續嚴格。然而，在實施有關員工所得稅的新法規後，個人支出年增 0.7%，達到 4.2 兆印尼盾。

Meanwhile, general and administrative expenses saw an increase by 18.8% year on year on the back of the combination of base factor which we saw recovery collection during the first and fourth quarter of 2024 and the start of professional booking on in the home B2C booking starting that quarter of 2024, coupled by less working day during the first quarter of 2025.

同時，由於 2024 年第一季及第四季恢復收款、2024 年該季度開始進行家庭 B2C 預訂的專業預訂以及 2025 年第一季工作日減少等因素，一般及行政開支同比增長 18.8%。

Similarly, interconnection expenses grew on both annual and quarterly basis to IDR2.1 trillion, reflecting readiness to cater for higher international traffic volume, supporting service delivery at current operational scale.

同樣，互連費用在年度和季度基礎上均增長至 2.1 兆印尼盾，反映出已準備好滿足更高的國際流量，並支持在當前營運規模下提供服務。

The total CapEx spend in the first quarter of 2025 is IDR5 trillion, largely allocated for connectivity, followed by spending for digital platform and services. CapEx realization to revenue was at 13.5%. Lower realize CapEx was affected by Lebaran seasonality, although still in line with Telkom strategic initiative on CapEx optimization. By providing robust infrastructure and innovation, Telkom continues to drive digital transformation and elevate customer experience across Indonesia.

2025 年第一季的總資本支出為 5 兆印尼盾，主要用於連接，其次是數位平台和服務支出。資本支出實現與收入比率為 13.5%。較低的實際資本支出受到開齋節季節性的影響，但仍符合 Telkom 資本支出優化策略措施。透過提供強大的基礎設施和創新，Telkom 繼續推動數位轉型並提升整個印尼的客戶體驗。

Our consumer business, Telkomsel recorded softer revenue to IDR27.2 trillion, a decline of 4.6% year on year for the first quarter of 2025. Mobile customer base softened slightly to IDR158.8 million due to deliberate recalibration effort to eliminate lower value rotational channel while defending engagement with high value segments.

我們的消費者業務 Telkomsel 2025 年第一季的營收較去年同期下降 4.6% 至 27.2 兆印尼盾。由於刻意重新調整以消除低價值輪換管道，同時保持與高價值細分市場的互動，行動客戶群略微下降至 1.588 億印尼盾。

As the result, ARPU for the first quarter of 2025 moderate to IDR42,400 or declined by 6.5% year on year. Data payload continues to record healthy growth of 19.8% year-on-year during the quarter. While competitive landscape has improved and become more rational, we remain disciplined and committed to market [repair] to ensure sustain sustainable value creation with long term growth prioritized over certain markets share gain.

因此，2025 年第一季的 ARPU 降至 42,400 印尼盾，年減 6.5%。本季數據有效載荷持續保持健康成長，年增 19.8%。雖然競爭格局已經改善並變得更加合理，但我們仍然保持紀律並致力於市場[修復]，以確保持續創造可持續的價值，並將長期成長置於某些市場份額的成長之上。

In the quarter, Telkomsel also streamline product portfolio to simplify choice while providing differentiation to the customer. Industry dynamic, including macroeconomic factors, competitive market dynamic and shaping consumer behavior will continue to influence sector performance in 2025.

本季度，Telkomsel 也簡化了產品組合，以簡化選擇，同時為客戶提供差異化產品。產業動態，包括宏觀經濟因素、競爭市場動態和塑造消費者行為，將持續影響 2025 年的產業表現。

While legacy revenue had been persist, positive momentum in data usage, industry consolidation and rational pricing environment signal opportunities for sustainable growth. Consumer fixed broadband subscriber grew by 10.4% on a quarterly basis to 9.8 million subscribers, including our strategy to broaden our customer base is gaining traction.

雖然傳統收入仍然存在，但數據使用、行業整合和合理定價環境的積極勢頭預示著可持續增長的機會。消費者固定寬頻用戶數按季度增長 10.4%，達到 980 萬用戶，其中我們擴大客戶群的策略正在獲得支持。

Digital business rise to a set of mobile revenue to [90.3% from 99.9%] previously for amounting of IDR18.6 trillion. This reinforces digital business as Telkomsel primary mobile revenue drivers supported by strategic cross-selling FMC initiative and data payload growth. The conversion ratio moderated to 55% as per March 2025, reflecting prudence in acquisition amidst macroeconomic headwinds.

數位業務對行動收入的貢獻率從先前的 99.9% 上升至 90.3%，達到 18.6 兆印尼盾。這加強了數位業務，因為 Telkomsel 的主要行動收入驅動力得到了戰略交叉銷售 FMC 計劃和數據有效載荷增長的支持。截至 2025 年 3 月，轉換率降至 55%，反映出宏觀經濟逆風中收購的審慎態度。

In the first quarter of 2025, enterprise segment recorded revenue of IDR5 trillion, growing by 2.9% year on year, driven by [NDBs], satellite services, payment business and et cetera. We continue to strengthen our capabilities, better capture opportunity within small, medium enterprise.

2025 年第一季度，企業部門營收達 5 兆印尼盾，較去年同期成長 2.9%，主要受 [NDB]、衛星服務、支付業務等的推動。我們不斷加強我們的能力，更好地抓住中小型企業的機會。

Wholesale and international and enterprise business continue to grow, providing furthur business diversification to Telkom Group. As a segment, wholesale and international business posted annual growth of 0.6% year on year to IDR4.8 trillion, driven by digital infrastructure business, including our tower and data center and cloud services business.

批發、國際和企業業務持續成長，為 Telkom 集團提供進一步的業務多元化。作為一個部門，批發和國際業務年增 0.6%，達到 4.8 兆印尼盾，這得益於包括塔和資料中心以及雲端服務業務在內的數位基礎設施業務。

Mitratel recorded revenue growth of 1.4% year on year in the first quarter of 2025 to IDR2.3 trillion. Tenancy ratio relatively stable at 1.52 times in the period driven by growth in co-location and the number of tenants.

Mitratel 2025 年第一季營收年增 1.4%，達到 2.3 兆印尼盾。受共置業務成長和租戶數量推動，期內租戶比率相對穩定在 1.52 倍。

As part of the business expansion strategy to strengthen product portfolio and becoming a digital infrastructure company, Mitratel completed acquisition of more than 8,000 kilometers of fiber optic in December, taking total length of fiber optic under management to 51,039 kilometers.

作為加強產品組合和成為數位基礎設施公司的業務擴展策略的一部分，Mitratel 於 12 月完成了對超過 8,000 公里光纖的收購，使其管理的光纖總長度達到 51,039 公里。

For 2025, we see that Indonesia economic environment will still be affected by external pressures, including geopolitical tension and global trade dispute. As a result, macroeconomic challenges might impact industry growth and spending patterns.

展望2025年，我們認為印尼經濟環境仍將受到外部壓力的影響，包括地緣政治緊張局勢和全球貿易爭端。因此，宏觀經濟挑戰可能會影響產業成長和消費模式。

Hence, we maintain conservative guidance on the Telkom Group revenue to grow within low single digit, maintain EBITDA margin ranges guidance at 50% to 52%, and maintain our CapEx to revenue guidance to 17% to 19% ratio in the medium to long run via implementation of cost leadership initiatives.

因此，我們維持對 Telkom 集團收入的保守預測，即成長率保持在低個位數以內，維持 EBITDA 利潤率範圍預測在 50% 至 52%，並透過實施成本領先舉措，在中長期內維持資本支出與收入之比預測在 17% 至 19%。

Telkom Groups remain committed to delivering reliable connectivity, optimizing network investment and driving operational efficiency to sustain long term value creation. That will be the end of my remarks. Thank you for your attention.

Telkom Groups 始終致力於提供可靠的連接、優化網路投資和提高營運效率，以維持長期價值創造。我的發言到此結束。感謝您的關注。

Now I handover to [Limi] to moderate the Q&A session.

現在我把主持人權交給[Limi]來主持問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Arthur Pineda.

（操作員指示）Arthur Pineda。

Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My question pertains to your growth guidance. You've maintained your guidance on low single digits for revenues. I'm just wondering what will change into the subsequent quarters because 1Q obviously has been under pressure. Are you seeing any changes into March and April for you to remain confident on growth prospects for this year? Thank you.

你好。感謝有這個機會。我的問題與您的成長指導有關。您一直維持著低個位數收入的預期。我只是想知道接下來的幾季會發生什麼變化，因為第一季顯然面臨壓力。您是否認為三月和四月會發生一些變化，讓您對今年的成長前景保持信心？謝謝。

Thank you, Arthur, for your question. First, we have, I think, several business portfolio in enterprise as you may see, that's still growing. Our wholesale, including the data center and also tower still growing. Beside that, of course, the largest part of our business coming from cellular.

謝謝亞瑟的提問。首先，如您所見，我們在企業中擁有多個業務組合，而且這些業務組合仍在成長。我們的批發業務，包括資料中心和塔，仍在成長。除此之外，當然，我們的業務最大部分來自蜂窩業務。

We believe -- I think, the industry quite committed to repair the industry overall that give us the opportunity to bring the turnaround in the revenue growth in the, hopefully, may impact in the second half of the years. I may now pass to Sigit adding some more color on it.

我們相信——我認為，整個行業都致力於修復整個行業，這為我們帶來了機會，讓我們的收入成長好轉，希望這能在下半年產生影響。現在我可能會轉到 Sigit 並為其添加更多顏色。

Hi, Arthur. This is Sigit. I just want to add to what Heri mentioned. We believe that with the current dynamic of the competitions which we believe also supporting towards higher tier market conducts, it provides a room for us to continuously improve and optimize our pool as well as our yield.

你好，亞瑟。這是西吉特。我只是想補充一下 Heri 提到的內容。我們相信，目前的競爭動態也支持更高層次的市場行為，這為我們不斷改進和優化我們的資源庫和效益提供了空間。

At the same time, we also have potential continually to capture the fixed broadband. We also see that although the competitions remain in fixed broadband, but the room for us to grow from fixed broadband are still able to be captured, especially in the second half.

同時，我們也有潛力不斷佔領固定寬頻。我們也看到，雖然固定寬頻領域的競爭仍然激烈，但我們仍然可以從固定寬頻領域獲得成長空間，尤其是在下半年。

And on top of that, I think with the convergence that we are now aiming, we also have seen some potential room for our household's perspectives that they can improve the (inaudible) growth in terms of revenue and more sustainable in the going forward.

除此之外，我認為，隨著我們現在所追求的融合，我們也看到了家庭觀點的一些潛在空間，即他們可以提高（聽不清楚）收入方面的成長，並在未來實現更永續的成長。

Thank you. Sorry, just to maybe clarify on that because the feedback I'm getting is that the softness across the industry is not really driven by competition but driven by overall consumption weakness.

謝謝。抱歉，我只是想澄清一下，因為我得到的回饋是，整個產業的疲軟實際上並不是由競爭驅動的，而是由整體消費疲軟驅動的。

I'm just wondering what can drive you to raise ARPUs if consumption overall is weak because it doesn't seem to be a problem with pricing, but rather the ability of consumers to spend up.

我只是想知道，如果整體消費疲軟，什麼可以促使你提高 ARPU，因為這似乎不是定價的問題，而是消費者的消費能力的問題。

Yeah. Arthur, I think the recent development on the competition helped us to soften the industry market competition dynamic. However, the impact of those is still not yet realized. We believe that the second half will then have a room for us. Of course, in the microeconomic condition will always be a very important factor for us to have a room to improve our ARPU.

是的。亞瑟，我認為最近的競爭發展幫助我們緩和了產業市場的競爭態勢。然而，這些影響尚未顯現。我們相信下半場我們會有空間。當然，微觀經濟狀況始終是我們提升ARPU值的一個非常重要的因素。

However, I think with the initiative of market repair, which we initiated earlier from starting with the starter pack will provide a room for us to also have a more healthier productive subscribers, especially when we focus on simplification products, including how we manage our optimization on the ARPU, especially on the renewal, since the starter pack yield are already improving, and it will help us to have the room for us to also optimize from the ARPU perspective.

然而，我認為，透過我們早些時候從入門包開始發起的市場修復計劃，將為我們提供擁有更健康、更高效的用戶的空間，特別是當我們專注於簡化產品時，包括我們如何管理對 ARPU 的優化，特別是在續訂方面，因為入門包的收益率已經在提高，它將幫助我們從 ARPU 的角度獲得優化的空間。

And I think you are correct that will always impact depending on the economic conditions, but the room when everyone is actually having focus on the profitability and uplift that will give us more room compared to previous conditions. That I think what we can indicate differently compared to the situation that you've been seeing from the past quarter. Thank you.

我認為您說得對，這總是會受到經濟狀況的影響，但當每個人都真正關注盈利能力和提升時，與以前的情況相比，我們將擁有更大的空間。我認為，與上一季的情況相比，我們可以得出不同的結論。謝謝。

Aurelia Barus.

奧雷莉亞·巴魯斯。

Okay. Thank you, Limi, and hi, management. I have two questions. My first question, what's the reason behind a sharp increase in data traffic while sharp decline in data yield? Should we anticipate the trend to sustain going forward? Is it because of the down trending or is it because of seasonal promotion?

好的。謝謝你，Limi，你好，管理階層。我有兩個問題。我的第一個問題，為什麼數據流量大幅成長，而數據收益卻大幅下降？我們是否應該預期這一趨勢將持續下去？是因為趨勢下滑還是因為季節性促銷？

And secondly, can you guide us regarding what kind of ARPU improvement should we anticipate after you implement the simplification on the renewal package. Thank you.

其次，您能否指導我們，在簡化續約方案後，我們應該預期 ARPU 會有什麼樣的提升？謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you. Again, Sigit from Telkomsel. First question is on how we see the data traffic improvement compared to the yield. During this quarter one, I think there is a selective data quota bonuses that we give, especially during the seasonal in order to stay competitive in the market.

是的。謝謝。再次，來自 Telkomsel 的 Sigit。第一個問題是我們如何看待數據流量的改善與效益的比較。在第一季度，我認為我們會提供選擇性數據配額獎勵，特別是在季節性期間，以保持市場競爭力。

On top of that (technical difficulty) on top of that, of course, the competition landscape, especially in the [ex-Java], we of course need to be calibrate in order to stay competitive. We are not declining our ARPU, but yet we still have maintaining our competitiveness through some quota bonuses selectively.

除此之外（技術難度），當然還有競爭格局，特別是在 [ex-Java] 領域，我們當然需要進行調整才能保持競爭力。我們的 ARPU 值並沒有下降，但我們仍然透過選擇性地提供一些配額獎金來保持競爭力。

Our focus remains on how we continuously improve and monetize through those data traffic that we have been generated and the stability of subscriber base that we have.

我們的重點仍然是如何透過我們產生的數據流量和我們現有的穩定的用戶群不斷改進和獲利。

Going forward, I think as I indicated with you before, the potential for us to continuously uplifting from both improving the yield and ARPU, it is more seeing in the market because of the softness of the market dynamic and competitions which we are actually initiating starting from the end of March. Although I think the impact will not be immediate, we are seeing this more granular basis and gradually. And in terms of the impact, we are expecting towards in second half this.

展望未來，我認為，正如我之前向您指出的那樣，我們透過提高收益率和 ARPU 來持續提升的潛力，由於市場動態的疲軟以及我們實際上從 3 月底開始啟動的競爭，市場上更加看好這一潛力。儘管我認為影響不會立即顯現，但我們正在看到這種影響更加細緻和逐漸顯現。就影響而言，我們預計這將發生在下半年。

Aurelia, do you have any follow-up question?

奧雷利亞，您還有其他問題嗎？

No. Thank you.

不。謝謝。

Indra Cahya.

因陀羅·卡亞。

Yeah. Thanks. Maybe just continuing from Aurelia's points. Do you see -- so I think you're saying that the second half we see a reversal between, let's say, the net off between traffic versus that data issue should be turning positive. Is that correct?

是的。謝謝。也許只是延續奧雷莉亞的觀點。您是否看到了——所以我認為您說的是，下半年我們會看到逆轉，比如說，流量與數據問題之間的淨值應該會轉為正值。對嗎？

And two, do you see -- what kind of new products that you are offering basically to offset the recent decline in that data yield basically. And if you don't mind, I have a second question probably after that, Limi.

第二，您看到—您提供什麼樣的新產品基本上可以抵銷近期數據收益的下降。如果你不介意的話，我可能在那之後還有第二個問題，Limi。

Yeah. I think it started with the current competition dynamic. As we indicate that from the tech point of view, we already seen that most of the operators are trying to improve the yield with the new starter pack [35 GB], for example, on our case. It will help us to then have the room for us to improve the yield in the renewal basis because if the starter pack are still having lower yield, then it will not help to anybody in the industry to improving the yield.

是的。我認為這始於當前的競爭動態。正如我們從技術角度所指出的，我們已經看到大多數營運商都在嘗試透過新的入門包 [35 GB] 來提高產量，例如在我們的案例中。它將幫助我們在更新基礎上提高產量，因為如果啟動包的產量仍然較低，那麼它將無助於行業中的任何人提高產量。

Secondly, I think for us, there is also another point that we still continuously explore. For example, we have a prepaid to postpaid that also can improve the ARPU. And so, along with that, we also have the bundling with digital bonuses, which are not the quota based but instead the benefit is not having an impact on the yield, but more towards the services.

第二，我覺得對我們來說，還有一點我們還在不斷的探索。例如，我們有一個預付費到後付費的服務，這也可以提高 ARPU。因此，除此之外，我們還提供捆綁數位獎金，這些獎金不是基於配額的，而是福利不會對收益產生影響，而更多地影響服務。

So moving forward, the product simplifications and gradual yield recovery will help us to improve overall ARPU and yield performance going forward.

因此，展望未來，產品簡化和收益的逐步恢復將有助於我們提高未來的整體 ARPU 和收益表現。

Thank you, bapa Sigit. But if I may, I move to the second question. So maybe I'll touch a bit on the broadband part. So I'm just wondering what has been your broadband acquisition strategy? I mean, is it still mostly as EZnet or has it been some turn back to in the home as well? And what is the average ARPU for new subscriber for broadband? That's all I have questions about. Thank you.

謝謝你，Sigit 爸爸。但如果可以的話，我想轉到第二個問題。所以也許我會稍微談談寬頻部分。所以我只是想知道您的寬頻收購策略是什麼？我的意思是，它仍然主要以 EZnet 的形式存在嗎，還是也回歸到了家庭中？寬頻新用戶的平均 ARPU 是多少？這就是我所有的疑問。謝謝。

Yeah. Of course, in terms of growth strategy, we have two approaches. We continuously expand our in-the-home base where that will be a base for us to grow, especially on the new greenfields when we have expanding our network.

是的。當然，就成長策略而言，我們有兩種方法。我們不斷擴大我們的國內基地，這將成為我們成長的基礎，特別是在我們擴展網路的新綠地上。

On top of that, of course, from the existing network that we still have, we are optimizing our asset by expanding our penetrations toward mid to lower segments through EZnet. So that's why if you see the ARPU perspective, it is balanced between our result on the new sales which are then have a portion of it come from the lower segment.

當然，除此之外，我們還在利用現有的網絡，透過 EZnet 擴大對中低階市場的滲透，從而優化我們的資產。因此，如果您從 ARPU 角度來看，它在我們的新銷售結果和來自較低細分市場的結果之間是平衡的。

And we are continuously also trying to manage that with the adoption of the in-the-home, including the convergent surfaces. And on top of that, I think largely on in-the-home base, we still have mostly on the 30 Mbps, which for us is a room to be upgraded and will hopefully impact to the average ARPU going forward.

我們也不斷嘗試透過採用家用技術（包括收斂表面）來解決這個問題。除此之外，我認為在很大程度上，在家庭基礎上，我們的網速仍然主要在 30 Mbps，這對我們來說是一個有待升級的空間，並且有望對未來的平均 ARPU 產生影響。

What is the average ARPU, if we may ask? The new subscriber average ARPU?

請問一下，平均 ARPU 是多少？新用戶平均 ARPU？

So the current -- I mean, because of the mix, I think the average ARPU is around [IDR230,000, IDR220,000].

因此，目前——我的意思是，由於混合，我認為平均 ARPU 大約是[230,000 印尼盾，220,000 印尼盾]。

Next question comes from Sukriti.

下一個問題來自 Sukriti。

Thank you, Limi, and thank you management for taking my questions. First question again on the data payload, if you could explain a little bit more. So it has increased pretty significantly while your ARPU growth has still come down.

謝謝你，Limi，也謝謝管理階層回答我的問題。第一個問題再次是關於資料有效載荷，您能否再解釋一下。因此，雖然 ARPU 成長有所下降，但其成長率卻相當顯著。

I mean your ARPU has still declined 6.5%. So can you help explain what are the divergences and I mean, if we compare it to your competitor recently it was the opposite impact that we saw. So what's exactly driving this divergence?

我的意思是你的 ARPU 仍然下降了 6.5%。那麼，您能否幫助解釋一下差異是什麼？我的意思是，如果我們將其與您最近的競爭對手進行比較，我們看到的是相反的影響。那麼究竟是什麼原因導致了這種分歧呢？

Yeah. I think from the data payload consumption, as I indicated previously, we are largely also having some program for especially on the seasonal. In order to maintain our competitiveness, that impact towards the growth of the payload, whereas on the ARPU decline, there's various factors compared to differentiation on the competitors.

是的。我認為從資料有效載荷消耗來看，正如我之前指出的，我們基本上也有一些針對季節性的計劃。為了維持我們的競爭力，這對有效載荷的成長有影響，而在ARPU下降方面，與競爭對手的差異化相比，有各種因素。

Number one, we still have a legacy portions more than the competitors. I think today we have still around 9% to 10% portion on the legacy which also impact to our ARPU. And on top of that, I think with the different segments that we have compared to the competitors, of course, it also will have differentiation between us and the competitors.

第一，我們的遺留份額仍然比競爭對手多。我認為今天我們仍有大約 9% 到 10% 的遺留份額，這也對我們的 ARPU 產生了影響。除此之外，我認為，與競爭對手相比，我們處於不同的細分市場，當然，我們和競爭對手之間也會有差異。

But the rest of the conditions like micro conditions are impacted the same, and the declining ARPU the way we see it is that it's because the customer behavior are shifting from higher to lower denominations due to the economic condition which also impacted ARPU.

但其他條件，例如微觀條件，也受到了同樣的影響，而我們認為 ARPU 的下降是因為經濟狀況導致客戶行為從高面額轉向低面額，這也影響了 ARPU。

Hi, Sukriti. Oky from IR. The improvements -- sorry, the increase in payloads, the healthy growth in payloads basically indicates the stickiness of our customers that we started to see an inflection points starting in the fourth quarters. And this also in conjunction with the improvements in the competitive landscape.

你好，Sukriti。從 IR 來看，OK。這些改進——抱歉，有效載荷的增加，有效載荷的健康增長基本上表明了我們客戶的黏性，我們從第四季度開始看到一個拐點。這也與競爭格局的改善有關。

And hence, the start of our initiative in the first quarter of 2025 where we think it's a great momentum for us to start doing some initiative among others towards the starter packs as well as as the product simplifications. So these two combined has basically as a great momentum. And hopefully, we could start to dematerialize starting in the June onwards.

因此，我們將於 2025 年第一季啟動該計劃，我們認為這對我們來說是一個很好的勢頭，可以開始在入門包和產品簡化等方面採取一些舉措。因此，這兩者結合起來基本上形成了巨大的勢頭。希望我們能從六月開始實現非物質化。

Thank you. And can I just follow up. So these bonuses on which help the data payload increase slightly more? Was it more Lebaran specific or are you continuing to see the data payload continue to grow? And is there any way to explain of the 6.5% Q-on-Q decline, what percentage would be driven by legacy decline?

謝謝。我可以跟進一下嗎？那麼這些獎勵有助於數據有效載荷稍微增加嗎？它是否更具開齋節特色，或者您是否繼續看到資料負載持續成長？有什麼方法可以解釋季減 6.5% 的原因嗎？有多少比例是由遺留問題導致的？

I think, for us, this data payload is one of the benefit for us is we are seeing from quarter to quarter, although the numbers are different. It's continuously increased, which is good. It indicates our productivity of the customers, which means our service is being used.

我認為，對我們來說，這種數據有效載荷是我們每個季度都能看到的好處之一，儘管數字有所不同。它不斷增加，這是好事。它顯示了我們客戶的生產力，這意味著我們的服務正在被使用。

And on top of that, there is a combination between impact on the seasonal as well as on the competition landscape that we are trying to balance and that impacted to the increased ARPU and the yield.

除此之外，我們也試圖平衡季節性因素和競爭格局的影響，這對 ARPU 和收益的提高產生了影響。

And however, from time to time, we continuously see the room for us to be able to monetize those payload increase, as well as its aligned with our product simplification approach, including how we can improve the ARPU going forward.

然而，我們時常發現，我們有空間將這些有效載荷的增加貨幣化，這與我們的產品簡化方法一致，包括我們如何在未來提高 ARPU。

And on the Legacy, I think as I indicate the current portion of legacy are still 9%. It will be stabilized this year, and we believe the stable numbers of percentage of portions, it will be similar to others which is around 5% to 6%.

關於遺產，我認為正如我指出的那樣，目前遺產的比例仍然為 9%。今年將會穩定下來，我們相信份額百分比的穩定數字將與其他類似，在 5％ 到 6％ 左右。

Understood. If I could just follow up with a couple of small questions. One is on your starter packs, can you remind us the contribution, what's the current contribution to the Telkom revenue from starter packs? How has that changed versus earlier? And yeah, I think I'll just ask that for now.

明白了。如果我可以繼續問幾個小問題的話。一個是關於您的入門包，您能否提醒我們它的貢獻，入門包目前對 Telkom 收入的貢獻是多少？與以前相比有何變化？是的，我想我現在就問這個問題。

Yeah. The contributions on the revenue on the starter pack is continuously remain around 5% compared to the overall revenue portions. I mean, to add to ARPU and revenue declines if it's compared on years that you indicate 6.5%, there's many rationale behind that. Number one, last year compared to this year, we have one day difference.

是的。入門包的收入貢獻佔總收入的比例一直維持在5%左右。我的意思是，如果與你所指出的 6.5% 的年份相比，ARPU 和收入都會下降，這背後有很多理由。第一，去年與今年相比，只相差一天。

Secondly, the seasonal are also muted and slower. We see the movement between one city to another are also lower compared to last year's. And also, last year, we have elections which also impact to the ARPU and revenue. Those are basically the factors that we see are impacting to the ARPU. Thank you.

其次，季節性因素也趨於減弱和減緩。我們發現，與去年相比，城市之間的流動也有所減少。此外，去年我們舉行了選舉，也對 ARPU 和收入產生了影響。這些基本上就是我們看到的對 ARPU 有影響的因素。謝謝。

Sukriti, maybe we move on to the next question first before we go back to you if you still have questions.

Sukriti，如果您還有問題，我們可以先討論下一個問題，然後再回答您的問題。

Yes, please.

是的，請。

Niko Margaronis.

尼可·馬加羅尼斯。

Yeah. Hi, management. Thank you for the opportunity. My question is basically on the reference you make about the June recovery. What is the catalyst? Why we have to wait until June where we have two months ahead.

是的。你好，管理層。感謝您提供的機會。我的問題基本上是關於您提到的六月復甦。催化劑是什麼？為什麼我們必須等到六月，而現在我們還有兩個月的時間。

I mean, I know also that the schools are closed or about to open around that time, which is, I think, is a headwind if I understand the situation correctly. So why the reference on the June month and why not earlier? And if mobile is again consolidating in the second quarter, do you see still room for low single digit growth in 2025. That's my first question.

我的意思是，我還知道學校在那個時候已經關閉或即將開學，如果我理解正確的話，我認為這將是一個不利因素。那為什麼要提到六月，而不是更早呢？如果行動市場在第二季再次整合，您是否認為 2025 年仍有低個位數成長的空間？這是我的第一個問題。

And secondly, again, in relation to this. You also mentioned in June or so for fixed broadband recovery. How to understand this? Why also June for fixed broadband? Is this the convergence effort, marketing effort that you're going to deploy, stronger convergence effort? Thank you.

其次，再次強調，與此相關。您也提到了六月左右固定寬頻的恢復。怎麼理解這個呢？為什麼固定寬頻也要在六月？這是您要部署的融合努力、行銷努力還是更強大的融合努力？謝謝。

Hi, Niko. Thank you. First of all, I think for the recovery of performance on mobile, the way we see it, it is required sometimes for market repair to have an impact. And I think the initiations starting with starter pack and continue with renewal and product simplification, it requires some time for many of the industry players, including us.

嗨，尼科。謝謝。首先，我認為對於行動效能的恢復，我們認為，有時需要市場修復才能產生影響。我認為從入門包開始的啟動，以及持續的更新和產品簡化，對於包括我們在內的許多行業參與者來說都需要一些時間。

We let this towards the positive impact and especially that we believe will strongly impact in the second half. That's why we are indicating that the impact will be later instead of in the earlier on the quarter two.

我們讓這產生積極的影響，特別是我們相信這將對下半年產生強烈的影響。這就是為什麼我們指出影響將在第二季晚些時候而不是早些時候顯現。

Number two. I think, of course, every operators have different strategy, including us. We are having not only product simplication, we also need to take a look on how our approach on branding perspective, how we approach on every segments in order to make this impact on the market repair are positive towards our result.

第二。我認為，當然每個運營商都有不同的策略，包括我們。我們不僅要簡化產品，還需要研究我們如何從品牌角度來處理這個問題，我們如何在各個細分市場中採取相應的措施，以便對市場修復產生積極的影響，從而取得積極的成果。

So that's why we indicate those things. It is not about the decision on the time frame, but it is towards the program that we have to take the lead on having the healthier conduct.

這就是我們指出這些事情的原因。這不是關於時間框架的決定，而是關於我們必須帶頭採取更健康行為的計劃。

Thank you, bapa Sigit.

謝謝你，Sigit 爸爸。

Hi, NiKo. Oky from IR. Probably, the recovery that we've been discussing here, I mean, it's an impact that we see in a quarter to quarter basis that we expect to start to see an outward trend in our numbers in second half better compared to the first half of the year, which a lot of macro factors has took part in our dynamics as well.

嗨，尼科。從 IR 來看，OK。可能，我們在這裡討論的復甦，我的意思是，這是我們在季度間看到的影響，我們預計下半年的數據將開始呈現比上半年更好的外向趨勢，其中許多宏觀因素也參與了我們的動態。

Just to give you a better and a bigger perspective as well in a year on year basis, if we see the trend in the 2024, we see the trend has been rather a deceleration, from the first half of the year as compared to second half of the year and while we see a different trend or directions for the issues where we expect this to start gradually recovering towards year end and also in conjunction with our expectations in the recovery in the macroeconomy as well. Thank you.

為了讓您在同比基礎上有一個更好、更大的視角，如果我們看看 2024 年的趨勢，我們會發現與下半年相比，上半年的趨勢有所減速，同時我們看到了不同的趨勢或方向，我們預計到年底這一趨勢將開始逐步恢復，這也與我們對宏觀經濟復甦的預期相一致。謝謝。

Yeah. On the last question on the fixed broadband, I think the way we see it is that the growth drivers for this is, of course, number one is faster deployment and that one has been continued, which we believe that after the deployment, we also need some time to capture the market. So that's why the second half would make sense to then have a bigger impact on the monetization, especially on the green field that we deployed since early years.

是的。關於固定寬頻的最後一個問題，我認為我們認為，固定寬頻的成長動力當然是第一要務，即更快的部署，而且這一趨勢一直在持續，我們認為，在部署之後，我們還需要一些時間來佔領市場。因此，下半年對貨幣化產生更大影響是有意義的，尤其是對我們早年部署的綠地而言。

Number two, we also improve from time to time after the migration of the system, both on how we retain our customers as well as how we improve our ARPU for household from the fixed mobile convergence services, and those are the indication and driver for us to then be able to continue uplift the fixed broadband business.

第二，系統遷移後，我們也不斷改進，包括如何留住客戶，以及如何透過固定行動融合服務來提高家庭的 ARPU，這些都是我們能夠持續提升固定寬頻業務的指標和動力。

Henry Tedja.

亨利·泰德賈。

Thank you, Limi, and hi, management. Thank you for the presentation. Perhaps three questions from me. The first one is regarding the data payload. I mean, if you really look at on data payload growth for the Telkomsel in the last three to four quarters, actually, in the last three quarters, Telkomsel outperformed in those certain (inaudible) in terms of the data payload growth.

謝謝你，Limi，你好，管理階層。感謝您的演講。也許我要問三個問題。第一個是關於數據有效載荷。我的意思是，如果你真正看一下 Telkomsel 在過去三到四個季度的數據有效載荷增長情況，實際上，在過去三個季度，Telkomsel 在數據有效載荷增長方面表現優異（聽不清）。

And then if we try to compare it with the revenue growth as well, I think that probably affected the revenue growth trend of the other telcos. We understand that you mentioned before that this strong data payload growth partly contributed to the -- attributed to all the bonus program, et cetera.

然後，如果我們嘗試將其與收入成長進行比較，我認為這可能會影響其他電信公司的收入成長趨勢。我們了解您之前提到過，這種強勁的數據有效載荷成長在一定程度上歸功於所有獎金計劃等等。

But this strong growth actually happened in the last three quarters, right? So I'm just curious whether this kind of initiatives will trigger a similar initiative from other telcos as well. That perhaps number one question.

但這種強勁成長實際上發生在過去三個季度，對嗎？所以我很好奇這種措施是否也會引發其他電信公司的類似措施。這也許是最重要的問題。

And the second, I think the management mentioned several times about the consumer behavior shift, right? So I'm just curious what is actually the consumer behavior shift that you guys mentioned in here. Can you elaborate more on that.

第二，我認為管理階層多次提到消費者行為的轉變，對嗎？所以我只是好奇你們在這裡提到的消費者行為轉變其實是什麼。您能否對此進行更詳細的說明？

And perhaps the last question regarding the product simplification as well. So can we have some kind of numbers, what will be the number of products that Telkomsel management are looking for by the end of this year versus, let's say, last year. Thank you.

這也許也是關於產品簡化的最後一個問題。那麼我們能否得到一些數字，與去年相比，今年年底 Telkomsel 管理層希望獲得的產品數量是多少？謝謝。

Thank you, Henry. Number one on the data payload growth, we believe is that it is a form of how the competitions on the ground are impacted. For us, I think we remain positively trying to manage this sustainable.

謝謝你，亨利。關於數據有效載荷的成長，我們認為首先這是對地面競爭產生影響的一種形式。對我們來說，我認為我們仍在積極地努力實現永續發展。

Of course, going forward, this data payload will be impacted when we have the more stable market repair situation where many of the operators, including us, are trying to monetize, which also will impact the data payload growth, but at the same time this remain our positive drivers in order to be able to monetize.

當然，展望未來，當市場修復情況更加穩定時，包括我們在內的許多運營商都在努力實現盈利，數據有效載荷也會受到影響，這也會影響數據有效載荷的增長，但與此同時，這仍然是我們實現盈利的積極驅動力。

And you indicate yourself that Telkomsel, I think from the past three quarters have been able to capture higher payload share compared to the peers, that helped us to then have the benefit on how we monetize those.

您自己也表示，我認為從過去三個季度來看，Telkomsel 與同行相比已經能夠獲得更高的有效載荷份額，這有助於我們在如何將其貨幣化方面獲得優勢。

Although it is again as you questioned whether it will trigger others to have the similar approach. The way we see it, if the market repair continue with the indication of when we initiate the new starter pack, which also being followed by others, that will help us to not having those risks that you are mentioning about what happens. That's number one.

儘管正如您所質疑的，它是否會引發其他人採取類似的方法。我們認為，如果市場修復繼續進行，並且我們啟動新的啟動包，其他人也會效仿，這將有助於我們避免您提到的那些風險。這是第一點。

Number two on the customer behavior for the customer conditions today, I think number one, we see that because of the economic conditions, people are shifted from one denominations to lower denominations, that is one of the things.

第二，關於當今客戶狀況的客戶行為，我認為，第一，我們看到由於經濟狀況，人們從一種面額的貨幣轉向較低面額的貨幣，這是其中之一。

Although we also see that people are seeking for more and more a better yield product in our side. That's why I think product simplification is important because then one product to another will not be able to cannibalize ourselves. That's also something that why the, number two, we initiating more and more product simplification in order for us to be able to maximize our impact on the product that we release.

儘管我們也看到人們越來越尋求我們這邊更好的收益產品。這就是為什麼我認為產品簡化很重要，因為這樣一種產品就不會互相蠶食。這也是為什麼，第二，我們要發起越來越多的產品簡化，以便能夠最大限度地發揮我們對所發布的產品的影響力。

On top of that, this product simplification is the aim for us to have the better journey of the customers in having our product by -- have more lesser product but clearer product for the customers. I can't share the numbers of the product, but it is significant for the customer to enjoy easier to find the product.

最重要的是，我們簡化產品的目的是為了讓客戶更好地使用我們的產品——為客戶提供更少但更清晰的產品。我無法分享產品的數量，但這對客戶更輕鬆找到產品非常重要。

A follow-up question comes from Nico Margaronis.

後續問題來自 Nico Margaronis。

Thank you, again, Limi. So basically, what do you expect to happen in the second half? I mean, do you expect the same volume growth payload? Or is it going to be -- will be coming down possibly, yield -- sorry, data usage per user.

再次感謝你，Limi。那麼基本上，您預計下半年會發生什麼事？我的意思是，您是否期望同樣的容量成長有效載荷？或者說，收益——抱歉，是每個用戶的數據使用量——可能會下降。

And I mean, potentially prices may come up, traffic may come down or you expect people to continue consume the same -- have the same consumption. And what is your plan B if this doesn't work. Thank you.

我的意思是，價格可能會上漲，流量可能會下降，或者你希望人們繼續進行同樣的消費。如果這不起作用，你的 B 計畫是什麼？謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you, Niko. I think for the second half, there's various factors that impact to payload versus the yield. We always seen that this is are correlated. When we are trying to reduce some bonuses, of course, payload may not be as high as what we have today, but at the same time, it also helps us to monetize those productive subscribers that are staying with us.

是的。謝謝你，尼科。我認為對於下半年來說，有各種因素會影響有效載荷與產量。我們總是看到這是相關的。當我們試圖減少一些獎金時，當然，有效載荷可能不會像現在這樣高，但同時，它也幫助我們將那些留在我們身邊的生產性訂戶貨幣化。

As long as the competition dynamics are maintained like what we are seeing from the previous, I think, one to two months and currently still happening, it will help us to have an ability to improve those monetizations with the productivity of pillow that we have.

只要競爭動態保持像我們之前看到的那樣，我認為，一到兩個月和現在仍然在發生，它將幫助我們有能力利用我們擁有的枕頭生產力來提高這些貨幣化。

And going forward, the consumption itself and including ARPU will also depend not only the strategy on internal but also the macro and external conditions. So those two factors are not in our control. However, I think we believe as long as the industry is moving towards the same direction, it will help us to have a potential positive impact in the second half. Thank you.

而未來消費本身包括ARPU也不僅僅取決於內部的策略，還取決於宏觀和外部的條件。所以這兩個因素不在我們的控制範圍內。不過，我認為只要產業朝著同一個方向發展，我們就相信它將有助於我們在下半年產生潛在的正面影響。謝謝。

Kevin Panjaitan.

凱文潘賈伊坦。

Okay. Thank you for having me management. So my first question is about -- I understand that you have increased the price for the new SIM card, but could you give us like the color how many older SIM cards with the low price are still available in the market, perhaps in your partner stores or maybe in your outlets.

好的。謝謝你讓我擔任管理。所以我的第一個問題是——我知道你們提高了新 SIM 卡的價格，但你能否告訴我們，市場上還有多少低價的舊 SIM 卡可以買到，也許是在你們的合作商店，也許是在你們的門店。

And then the second is about regarding the renewal package adjustment and also simplification for that initiatives. Could you share when is the target to implement this initiative? Thank you.

第二個是關於續約方案的調整以及計畫的簡化。您能否分享一下實施這項措施的目標時間？謝謝。

Sorry, Kevin, I cannot hear you clearly on your questions. Can you repeat, please?

抱歉，凱文，我聽不清楚你的問題。您能再說一次嗎？

So, how but now, could you hear me?

那麼，現在你怎麼聽得到我說話呢？

Yeah.

是的。

Bapa Sigit, maybe if I can help. So the first question is about starter pack pricing. And the second is more on the timeline of implementation for renewal and simplification products to be available to the market.

Bapa Sigit，也許我可以幫忙。所以第一個問題是關於入門包的定價。第二個是關於更新和簡化產品推向市場的實施時間表。

Okay. On the starter pack, I think the current situation is that we are having mix between the new product that we have and also the existing stock that we still also have in the market. However, I think moving forward, we are focusing on the simplification of the new starter pack that we have been initiating.

好的。關於入門包，我認為目前的情況是，我們將現有的新產品和市場上現有的庫存混合在一起。然而，我認為，展望未來，我們將專注於簡化我們已經啟動的新入門包。

I think you can see more on our digital appearance on the website as well as the other channel on on digital, which is simpler. You can see that no more old product that we are selling, even including the eSIM, that indicate that we are driving towards a better yield on the starter pack.

我想您可以在網站上看到更多關於我們數位形象的內容，也可以在數位上看到其他更簡單的頻道。您可以看到，我們不再銷售舊產品，甚至包括 eSIM，這表明我們正在努力提高入門套件的收益率。

And with that, of course, the impact of renewal will be following because without the new starter pack being adopted in the market, they will still have an option towards lower yield on the starter pack. So that's why the simplification of the product renewal are only starting, but it is gradual and the impact of those renewal package adjustment and also simplification of product will be in the second half. I hope that answers the questions.

當然，續約的影響也會隨之而來，因為如果市場不採用新的入門包，他們仍然可以選擇降低入門包的收益。因此，產品更新的簡化才剛開始，但它是漸進的，這些更新包調整和產品簡化的影響將在下半年顯現。我希望這能解答這些問題。

Thank you, Sigit. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the end of the Q&A session. Thank you for your participation. I now hand over the session back to Oky.

謝謝你，Sigit。女士們、先生們，問答環節到此結束。感謝您的參與。我現在將會議交還給 Oky。

Okay. As there are no further inquiries, I would like to wrap up this call. Thank you, Telkom Group and Telkomsel Board of Directors, participations, my regard to investors and analysts who have participated as well. The recording of today's call will be available for the next seven days, and the link will be sent to your emails.

好的。由於沒有其他詢問，我想結束本次通話。感謝 Telkom 集團和 Telkomsel 董事會的參與，也感謝參與的投資人和分析師。今天的通話錄音將在接下來的七天內保留，連結將發送到您的電子郵件中。

This concludes the Telkom Indonesia earnings call for the first quarter of 2025 result. Thank you and see you in the next quarter's earnings call.

以上就是印尼電信 2025 年第一季業績電話會議的總結。謝謝您，下個季度的收益電話會議再見。