Telkom Indonesia (Persero) Tbk PT (TLK) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Telkom Full Year 2023 Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to hand you over to Telkom SVP, Corporate Communications and Investor Relations, Pak Ahmad Reza. Please go ahead, Pak.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Telkom 2023 年全年業績電話會議。 （接線員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音中。現在，我很高興將發言權交給 Telkom 企業傳播和投資者關係高級副總裁 Pak Ahmad Reza。 Pak，請發言。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Telkom Indonesia conference call for the audited results of full year 2023. There will be an overview from our CEO and followed by the Q&A after the session. Before we start, let me remind you that today's call and the responses to questions may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor. Actual result could differ materially from projections or estimation and may involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to be different from what we discussed today.

謝謝。女士們，先生們，歡迎參加印尼電信 (Telkom Indonesia) 2023 年全年審計業績電話會議。會議期間，我們的執行長將進行概述，並在會議結束後進行問答。在開始之前，請允許我提醒大家，今天的電話會議及對問題的回應可能包含安全港條款中定義的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與預測或估計有重大差異，並且可能涉及風險和不確定性，導致實際結果與我們今天討論的結果不同。

Ladies and gentlemen, it's my pleasure now to introduce Telkom's Board of Directors who are joining us today. First is Mr. Ririek Adriansyah, as the President, Director and CEO; Mr. Heri Supriadi, as Finance and Risk Managing Director; Mrs. Venusiana, as Enterprise and Business Service Director; Mr. Bogi Witjaksono, as Wholesale and International Service Director; Mr. Budi Setyawan Wijaya, as Strategic Portfolio Director; Mr. Honesti Basyir, as the Group Business Development Director; Mr. Herlan Wijanarko as Network and IT Solution Director; Mr. Muhamad Fajrin Rasyid as Digital Business Director; Mr. Afriwandi as Human Capital Management Director. Also we present the Board of Director of Telkomsel, Mr. Nugroho, as the President, Director; Mr. Mohamad Ramzy as Finance and Risk Management Director; Mr. Derrick Heng as Marketing Director; Mr. Adiwinahyu Basuki Sigit as Sales Director.

女士們，先生們，我很高興現在介紹今天加入我們的 Telkom 董事會。首先是總裁、董事兼執行長 Ririek Adriansyah 先生；財務和風險管理總監 Heri Supriadi 先生；企業和商業服務總監 Venusiana 女士；批發和國際服務總監 Bogi Witjaksono 先生；策略投資組合總監 Budi Setyawan Wijaya 先生；集團業務發展總監 Honesti Basyir 先生；網路與 IT 主管主管 Budi Setyawan Wijaya 先生；集團業務發展總監 Honesti Basyir 先生；網路與 ITfri 資本總長；先生。此外，我們也介紹 Telkomsel 董事會成員，總裁兼董事 Nugroho 先生；財務與風險管理總監 Mohamad Ramzy 先生；市場總監 Derrick Heng 先生；銷售總監 Adiwinahyu Basuki Sigit 先生。

And now I hand over the call to our CEO, Mr. Ririek Adriansyah, for his overview. Please go ahead.

現在，我將電話交給我們的執行長 Ririek Adriansyah 先生，請他介紹一下情況。請繼續。

Thank you, Reza. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our conference call for the updated full year of 2023 result. We appreciate your participation in this call. The competition in telecommunication business in Indonesia during 2023 showed improvement and consolidation among mobile telco players and moved towards positive NBLs. As mobile and fixed broadband are still our revenue contributors, the more rational pricing vehicle in 2023 was also reflected in our financial performance by still growing both in revenue and net income.

謝謝，Reza。女士們，先生們，下午好。歡迎參加我們2023年全年業績更新電話會議。感謝您的參與。 2023年，印尼電信業務的競爭有所改善，行動業者之間的整合也呈現積極態勢，並朝著積極的淨利潤目標邁進。由於行動和固定寬頻仍然是我們的收入來源，2023年更合理的定價策略也反映在我們的財務表現中，收入和淨利潤均保持成長。

Moving along to year 2024, the political tension in Indonesia is expected to be less in the second quarter of 2024. This situation will be the catalyst of telco industry to grow more aggressively and also an opportunity for Telkom to increase its financial. Telkom Group is consistently implementing fixed mobile convergence and in the meantime, preparing data center modernization and InfraCo value creation to take the policy in 2024. After the spin-off, IndiHome to Telkomsel known as FMC initiative. Telkomsel has been performing quite well in synergizing the mobile and fixed broadband products through some brilliant initiatives such as effective cross-selling, customer value maximization through pricing, product revision and substitution, as well as also action in CapEx and OpEx disbursement. This could be seen from the mobile customer subscriber take-up, acceleration in fixed broadband customer growth and enhanced customer loyalty.

展望2024年，預計印尼的政治緊張局勢將在2024年第二季有所緩和。這將成為電信業更積極成長的催化劑，也是Telkom增加財務收入的良機。 Telkom集團正持續推動固定行動融合，同時籌備資料中心現代化與InfraCo價值創造，以便在2024年實現此目標。分拆後，IndiHome被Telkomsel收購，稱為FMC計畫。 Telkomsel透過一些出色的舉措，在行動和固定寬頻產品的協同方面表現相當出色，例如有效的交叉銷售、透過定價實現客戶價值最大化、產品修訂和替換，以及在資本支出和營運支出支出方面的舉措。這可以從行動用戶的成長、固定寬頻用戶成長的加速以及客戶忠誠度的提高中看出。

On the data center monetization, we are in the process of assisting and finding the best potential partner that could bring energy and capital. As of first quarter of 2024, PT Telkom Data Ekosistem has successfully become the only entity that Manage Telkom Group data center business after several assets transfers from other business units and subsidiaries.

在資料中心貨幣化方面，我們正在協助尋找能夠帶來活力和資本的最佳潛在合作夥伴。截至2024年第一季度，PT Telkom Data Ekosistem已成功從其他業務部門和子公司轉移資產，成為管理Telkom集團資料中心業務的唯一實體。

On the whole year of 2023, (inaudible) financial, it's so that Telkom Group revenue grew by 1.3% year-on-year to IDR 149.2 trillion with the EBITDA at IDR 77.6 trillion and EBITDA margin of 52%, decreased solely from the previous year due to the allocation of capital cost and electricity expenses.

就 2023 年全年財務而言，Telkom 集團的營收年增 1.3% 至 149.2 兆印尼盾，EBITDA 為 77.6 兆印尼盾，EBITDA 利潤率為 52%，僅因資本成本和電力費用的分配而較上年有所下降。

Net income grew by 18.3% year-on-year to IDR 24.6 trillion due to acceleration (inaudible) and less mark-to-market affected by go to in 2023. In the full year of 2023, Telkomsel recorded positive consolidated revenue growth as compared to previous year with a good profitability levels supported by growth of digital business, both in mobile and fixed broadband. The results could be seen that Telkomsel mobile and fixed broadband revenue increased by 15% year-on-year to IDR 102.4 trillion, consists of 13.23% in fixed broadband and IDR 59.1 trillion from mobile business.

淨收入年增18.3%，達到24.6兆印尼盾，這得益於2023年增速加快（聽不清楚）以及市場對「去化」的影響減弱。 2023年全年，Telkomsel的合併收入與上年相比實現了正增長，在移動和固定寬頻數位業務增長的支撐下，公司盈利水平良好。結果顯示，Telkomsel的行動和固定寬頻收入年增15%，達到102.4兆印尼盾，其中固定寬頻收入佔13.23%，行動業務收入佔59.1兆印尼盾。

Digital business revenue of Telkom -- of Telkomsel grew by 7.6% year-on-year to IDR 28.5 trillion, and becoming the most significant project to take up top line while legacy business for SMS in 2023 at 10.7% in recent (inaudible), a sharp decline from the previous year at minus 33.8%.

Telkom 的數位業務收入年增 7.6%，達到 28.5 兆印尼盾，成為佔據營業收入最重要的項目，而傳統簡訊業務在 2023 年的成長率為 10.7%（聽不清），較前一年的負 33.8% 大幅下降。

Of the few that legacy business will continue to taper off the growth of our mobile business revenue will be more significant. Digital business segment recorded positive (inaudible) bonus and increased its contribution to total 88.0% from 81.9% last year, driven by healthy growth of data and business services, sort of future growth. We are committed to deliver a diversified portfolio services and innovative products, including digital lifestyle, (inaudible) advertising and retail enterprise and sourcing IoT business.

在少數傳統業務將持續放緩的情況下，我們行動業務的營收成長將更為顯著。數位業務部門錄得正（聽不清楚）獎金，其貢獻率從去年的81.9%上升至88.0%，這得益於數據和商業服務的健康成長，也預示著未來的成長。我們致力於提供多元化的服務和創新產品，包括數位生活方式、（聽不清楚）廣告、零售企業和採購物聯​​網業務。

Telkomsel has successfully increased the mobile customer base at 159.3 million in 2023 as compared to 156.8 million in previous year with improved productivity and quality of customers. With different dominance in mobile competition, Telkomsel increased its capacity and quality in ex-Java, while Telkomsel Lite and value product. Its capacity and quality Telkomsel Lite's strategy to gain back Telkomsel dominancy in Java area, where value is positioned to retain youth customers and encourage them to use the number of consistently until they become productive and spend more budget to utilize the numbers.

Telkomsel 成功將行動客戶群從前一年的 1.568 億增至 2023 年的 1.593 億，並提升了客戶生產力和品質。憑藉在行動競爭中佔據主導地位的優勢，Telkomsel 在爪哇以外的地區提升了容量和質量，而 Telkomsel Lite 則注重產品的價值。 Telkomsel Lite 的容量和品質策略旨在重奪其在爪哇地區的主導地位，其價值定位在於留住年輕客戶，並鼓勵他們持續使用，直到他們變得高效並投入更多預算來利用這些號碼。

A total injection of retail-fixed broken business by managing IndiHome. Telkom continue to take the advertise of synergical impact on the contracts, mobile and fixed broadband product. In last 1 month, after the legal day 1 started 1st of July 2023, we launched a new product called Telkomsel One as a commitment in continuing the business of MC initiative, which will further encourage equal distribution of digital connectivity and wide selection of customer-centric packages and multiscreen approach initiatives through content optimization.

透過管理IndiHome，全面注入零售固定寬頻業務。 Telkom持續致力於在合約、行動和固定寬頻產品方面發揮協同效應。在過去一個月，也就是2023年7月1日法定生效日後的一個月內，我們推出了一款名為Telkomsel One的新產品，以延續MC計畫的業務。該產品將透過內容優化，進一步促進數位連接的平等分配、以客戶為中心的套餐選擇以及多螢幕方案的多樣化。

Under Telkomsel, it has successfully accelerated new additional customer of IndiHome B2C in the form of 425,000 with ARPU of 253,000. We are committed to continuously improve our services and order customer base while maintaining high standards of quality and value that our customer expects. We really care to customer (inaudible) and hope to find customer stickiness to our services.

在Telkomsel的領導下，IndiHome B2C業務成功加速成長，新增客戶42.5萬，ARPU達到25.3萬。我們致力於持續改善服務，提升客戶基礎，同時維持客戶期望的高品質和高價值標準。我們真心實意地關心客戶（聽不清楚），並希望能夠建立客戶對我們的服務的黏性。

In full year of 2023, Wholesale and International Business segment contributed to revenue growth and IDR 16.9 trillion or grew by 9.6%. (inaudible) growth mostly come from the International and Wholesale prices from Telin (inaudible) Telkom acquisition (inaudible) the growing data center business of Telkom start to contribute higher revenue and gross even though demand is relatively small to our consolidated revenue.

2023 年全年，批發和國際業務部門貢獻了 16.9 兆印尼盾的收入成長，成長了 9.6%。 （聽不清楚）成長主要來自 Telin 的國際和批發價格（聽不清楚）Telkom 收購（聽不清楚）Telkom 不斷增長的資料中心業務開始貢獻更高的收入和毛利，儘管需求對我們的綜合收入相對較小。

As of full year 2023, data center and core business booked IDR 1.9 trillion of revenue, grew by 13.8% year-on-year. So order accelerated from that ecosystem with an ultra DC as the brand, we have clarity of data center, including hyperscale center, enterprise data center and as data center, of which (inaudible) its own markets again.

截至2023年全年，資料中心及核心業務收入達1.9兆印尼盾，較去年同期成長13.8%。因此，以超級資料中心為品牌的生態系統加速了訂單的成長，我們清楚地了解了資料中心，包括超大規模資料中心、企業資料中心以及（聽不清楚）其自身的市場。

As of December 2023, we have a total of 22 data center facilities, domestic and pipe overseas, the spread of our 4 countries, namely Indonesia, Singapore, Hong Kong and Timor Leste. Our data center consists of, an IT load capacity of 42 megawatts with an office total acquisition level of 30%. In order to expand more aggressively on the DC business, we plan to do both organic and inorganic capabilities. We are also starting to unlock the DC capacity by looking for partner preferred global data center improving capacity and utilization.

截至2023年12月，我們共有22個資料中心設施，涵蓋國內和海外管道，分佈在印尼、新加坡、香港和東帝汶四個國家。我們的資料中心IT負載容量為42兆瓦，辦公大樓總購置率為30%。為了更積極地拓展資料中心業務，我們計劃同時進行內生和外生能力建構。我們也開始透過尋找合作夥伴首選的全球資料中心來釋放資料中心容量，從而提高容量和使用率。

We already prepared some action including operating business and attracting financial adviser and hope to update the analog data center business this year so that our expansion in data center business could be growing more rapidly.

我們已經做好了包括營運業務、吸引財務顧問等一些行動，希望今年能夠更新模擬資料中心業務，讓我們在資料中心業務上的拓展能夠更加快速的成長。

In our Intraco initiative, at the end of 2023, we have established (inaudible) Indonesia that later on will be the only subsidiary of Telkom to organize and manage infrastructure facility business. The company will be dedicated to create additional ways to enhance (inaudible) utilization, capital and action and optimization (inaudible) investment service offerings and improve operational efficiency and strategic partnership creation.

在我們的Intraco計畫中，我們於2023年底成立了（聽不清楚）印尼公司，該公司未來將成為Telkom旗下唯一一家負責組織和管理基礎設施業務的子公司。該公司將致力於探索更多途徑，以提升（聽不清楚）利用率、資本和行動，並優化（聽不清楚）投資服務，並提高營運效率和建立策略合作夥伴關係。

(inaudible) as many service companies for Telkom fiber asset with a specific focus on optimizing the utilization through the provision of wholesale home services for wholesale B2B. Later on, step by step Telkom will transfer its fiber asset to the company so that it can cater both internal and external demand for connectivity.

（聽不清楚）Telkom 已與多家服務公司合作，共同開發其光纖資產，尤其註重透過為 B2B 批發市場提供家庭服務來優化利用率。 Telkom 隨後將逐步將其光纖資產轉移給該公司，以滿足其內部和外部的連接需求。

During 2023, our (inaudible) has successfully added 2,596 towers and 5,403. We started a different tenancy ratio to 1.51 compared to 1.47 in 2022. It also keeps its dominancy as the largest telco provider in Southeast Asia. In addition, Telkom enjoys our (inaudible) as around 58% of towers are located in ex Japan, while the remaining 42% are located in Japan. With this unique proposition with Telkom India, equal revenue growth opportunity to support Telkom Group B2B and B2C business.

2023年，我們（聽不清楚）成功新增了2,596座鐵塔和5,403座新鐵塔。我們將租戶比率從2022年的1.47調整至1.51。它也保持了東南亞最大電信業者的主導地位。此外，Telkom也享有（聽不清楚）的優惠，因為約58%的鐵塔位於日本以外，其餘42%位於日本。憑藉與Telkom India這項獨特的合作，Telkom集團的B2B和B2C業務將獲得平等的收入成長機會。

In term of revenue, in full year '23, (inaudible) recorded revenue of IDR 8.6 trillion or grew by 11.2% year-on-year, driven by tower leasing revenue. EBITDA and net income grew by 12.7% and 12.6% year-on-year, respectively, with the EBITDA margin expanded to 80.5% or increased by 1 (inaudible) year-on-year and net income attributable to 23.4% or increased by 0.3 percentage points year-on-year.

就收入而言，2023年全年，（聽不清楚）收入達8.6兆印尼盾，較去年同期成長11.2%，主要得益於塔式租賃收入。 EBITDA和淨收入分別較去年同期成長12.7%和12.6%，EBITDA利潤率擴大至80.5%，年成長1（聽不清楚），淨收入佔23.4%，較去年同期成長0.3個百分點。

Total (inaudible) so currently becoming our prospective revenue engine growth and part of our strategy to strengthen product portfolio to become a digital industrial company. With other adjusted dividend growth and as fiber optics by adding 15,880 kilometers throughout 2023, resulting in a total network line of 32,521 kilometers.

道達爾（聽不清楚）目前正成為我們潛在的營收成長引擎，也是我們強化產品組合、成為數位工業公司策略的一部分。加上其他調整後股利的成長，以及2023年新增15,880公里光纖，使網路線路總長度達到32,521公里。

With the full year of 2023 and the project recorded IDR 18.2 trillion in revenue with B2B digital service and enterprise connectivity solution as the biggest contributors. We see our capability in cloud business, including to build a partnership with a global technology player. Following the spinoff of IndiHome to Telkomsel, Enterprise segment launched a new umbrella brand namely Indibiz in the third quarter of 2023 to focus on securing SMEs market.

該計畫預計2023年全年收入達18.2兆印尼盾，其中B2B數位服務和企業互聯解決方案為主要貢獻者。我們看好自身在雲端業務方面的能力，包括與全球科技公司建立合作關係。在IndiHome分拆至Telkomsel後，企業部門於2023年第三季推出了名為Indibiz的新品牌，專注於穩固中小企業市場。

Indibiz provides connectivity solution as well as digital platform and categorize the service into Indibiz for (inaudible), Indibiz for multi-finance, Indibiz for school and Indibiz for hotels supported by regional resources for B2B digital IDs at this business.

Indibiz 提供連接解決方案和數位平台，並將服務分為用於（聽不清楚）的 Indibiz、用於多重金融的 Indibiz、用於學校的 Indibiz 和用於酒店的 Indibiz，並由區域資源支持，用於該業務的 B2B 數位 ID。

On government and enterprise markets, we offer solutions at the government digital solution in broadband platform office, business and industry (inaudible) solution. We're also offering B2B connectivity products to support our various product solution. That is the ending of my remarks, and thank you for the kind attention. .

在政府和企業市場，我們提供政府數位解決方案、寬頻平台辦公室解決方案、商業和產業解決方案（聽不清楚）。我們也提供B2B連接產品，以支援我們各種產品解決方案。我的發言到此結束，感謝大家的關注。

Thank you, Pak Ririek. We will begin the Q&A. (Operator Instructions) Operator, may we have the first question, please?

謝謝您，Pak Ririek。我們開始問答環節。 （接線生指示）接線員，請問我們可以問第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Kelsey Santoso from Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自高盛的 Kelsey Santoso。

This is Kelsey from Goldman Sachs. A few questions from my side. Obviously, could you provide some color on full year '24 guidance, including your group and Telkomsel revenue growth target and EBITDA margin as well as the CapEx for this year? And then my second question is on mobile. What led the ARPU weakness in Q4? It would be great if you could give the latest update on the mobile competition? And my last question is on the cost side. We saw personnel and G&A expenses spike in Q4. So for personnel costs, is this related to any one-off at the year-end? And for G&A, in the info memo, you mentioned that it's due to transformation costs. So assume that it's referring to the FMC, how should this trend in 2024?

我是高盛的Kelsey。我有幾個問題。當然，您能否提供一些關於2024年全年業績指引的細節，包括貴集團和Telkomsel的收入成長目標、EBITDA利潤率以及今年的資本支出？我的第二個問題是關於行動業務的。是什麼導致了第四季的ARPU值下降？如果您能提供行動競爭的最新情況就更好了。我的最後一個問題是關於成本方面。我們看到第四季人事費用和一般及行政費用（G&A）飆升。那麼，對於人事成本，這與年底的任何一次性支出有關嗎？至於一般及行政費用，在資訊備忘錄中，您提到這是由於轉型成本造成的。那麼，假設它指的是FMC，那麼2024年這種趨勢該如何發展？

Okay. Thank you, Kelsey. This is Heri. I first address your question on the guidance of full year 2024 for the group in Telkomsel. First on the group side. The revenue is expected to grow mid-single digits, and then we're going to have EBITDA around 50% to 52% of EBITDA margin. And then on the CapEx, we're going to spend around 22% to 24% of the revenue. I think, Ramzy, you can have color on the Telkomsel guideline. .

好的。謝謝Kelsey。我是Heri。首先，我想回答您關於Telkomsel集團2024年全年業績指引的問題。首先是集團方面。預計營收將成長中個位數，EBITDA利潤率將達到50%到52%左右。然後，在資本支出方面，我們的支出將佔收入的22%到24%左右。 Ramzy，我想您可以對Telkomsel的指引進行更詳細的說明。

Yes. Thank you, Kelsey. This is Ramzy from Telkomsel. In Telkomsel, our guidance in some of the revenue growth would be in mid- to high teens post IndiHome integration. On the EBITDA margin, around 46% to 48% as we implement asset-light approach adoption. And on the CapEx to revenue ratio, we will have around 14% to 15% revenue. .

是的。謝謝，Kelsey。我是 Telkomsel 的 Ramzy。在 Telkomsel，我們預計在 IndiHome 整合後，部分營收將實現 15% 到 20% 左右的成長。隨著我們實施輕資產策略，EBITDA 利潤率將達到 46% 到 48% 左右。資本支出與收入的比率將達到 14% 到 15% 左右。

I think the guideline for 2024 with the company as a group and also Telkomsel. On the CapEx, the CapEx that we spent around 22% to 20% of the revenue. It will go to mobile around 40% and then fixed broadband around 25%, and the balance goes to data center and other businesses. .

我認為這是公司集團以及Telkomsel在2024年的指導方針。在資本支出方面，我們的支出約佔收入的22%到20%。其中，約40%將用於行動業務，約25%將用於固定寬頻業務，剩餘部分將用於資料中心和其他業務。

Okay. Kelsey, this is Derrick from Telkomsel. I'll answer your question on mobile ARPU. So we are accelerating penetration and maintaining competitiveness by acquiring new households, particularly by addressing affordability concerns to the lower ARPU products while we want to offer high-quality services.

好的。 Kelsey，我是Telkomsel的Derrick。我來回答你關於移動ARPU的問題。我們正在透過吸引新用戶來加速滲透率並保持競爭力，尤其是在提供高品質服務的同時，我們致力於解決低ARPU產品的可負擔性問題。

Our focus is on profitability. So our future growth will be driven by customer productivity. We want to optimize our network. We want to drive customer loyalty and stickiness. And ultimately, that will help us to drive the ARPU uplift while maintaining our leadership position in market share. .

我們專注於盈利能力。因此，我們未來的成長將由客戶生產力驅動。我們希望優化我們的網絡，提升客戶忠誠度和客戶黏著度。最終，這將有助於我們提升每位用戶平均收入 (ARPU)，同時保持我們在市佔率方面的領先地位。

Okay. The third question on the some of the costs. The cost you addressed in the personnel cost. Actually, there's some (inaudible) of the personnel cost increase first, which is natural from time to time, we need to adjust by inflation for the basic salary. The second, on the, I think, tax policy, I mean, from government on the natural benefit that we need to apply in the context of the employee.

好的。第三個問題是關於部分成本的。您提到的成本是人事成本。實際上，首先，人事成本會增加，這是自然規律，我們需要根據通貨膨脹來調整基本工資。其次，我認為是稅收政策，也就是政府制定的自然福利政策，我們需要將其應用於員工。

The third is some like, I think, benefit for the loan service of the employees, that is kind of periodically whenever employee 7 years, 15 years and 20 years, we need to give some benefit as well, allowance for debt. And I think that's most of the cost of the increase in the personnel cost.

第三，我認為是員工貸款服務福利，也就是員工工作滿7年、15年、20年時，我們也會定期發放一些福利，例如債務補貼。我認為這是人事成本增加的大部分原因。

And then in the G&A, GA costs, mostly, as you also already pointed out, it is coming from the transformation cost, transformation related to most of the, I think corporate action we did last year, but in the call for action. And also there, I think the way we have done this monitoring and controlling the transformation itself.

然後，在一般及行政管理（G&A）方面，正如您之前指出的，一般及行政管理成本主要來自轉型成本，轉型與我們去年開展的大部分企業行動（包括行動號召）相關。此外，我認為我們對轉型本身的監控和控制方式也與此相關。

This year, as we see that most of the corporate action already been done last year. The trend of the cost coming from the professional fee is supposed to be decreased compared to last year. And I think that's about the costs and the other costs in the operation and maintenance, some costs are coming from the content that we provide along with this connectivity services in the enterprise side. This is coming at a cost that we need to also up.

今年，我們看到大多數公司行動在去年已經完成。來自專業費用的成本趨勢與去年相比應該會有所下降。我認為這與營運和維護相關的成本有關，其中一些成本來自我們提供的內容以及企業端的連接服務。這些成本也需要提高。

So mostly, I think the cost that happened in the last quarter of last year. .

所以，我認為大部分成本都發生在去年最後一個季度。

Our next question comes from the line of Marissa Putri from UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Marissa Putri。

So I have 3 questions. Firstly, in terms of your numbers. Can you provide some details on why the group booked a negative IDR 1 trillion revenue from the IndiHome Enterprise business in Q4, whether it has anything to do with the transfer of IndiHome to Telkomsel or maybe InfraCo establishment. And also how big is this impacting to your EBITDA net profit numbers in general?

所以我有三個問題。首先，關於你們的數據。能否詳細說明一下，為什麼集團第四季 IndiHome Enterprise 業務的收入為負 1 兆印尼盾？這是否與 IndiHome 轉移給 Telkomsel 或 InfraCo 子公司有關？此外，這對你們的 EBITDA 淨利潤整體影響有多大？

Secondly, you launched Telkomsel Lite this year. There was also a push of by.U product. Given that we are now seeing 2 consecutive decline in both ARPU and data volume, data subs, would it be fair also to assume there has been some change in your mobile strategy, which would also point to potentially more intense competition, especially in lower end of the market?

其次，你們今年推出了Telkomsel Lite，同時也大力推廣by.U產品。鑑於我們現在看到ARPU（每個用戶平均收入）和數據流量（數據用戶）連續兩次下滑，是否可以認為你們的行動策略也發生了一些變化？這是否意味著競爭可能會更加激烈，尤其是在低端市場？

And lastly, your guidance of mid-single-digit growth compared to the current 1% growth. Which part of the business you're expecting to be a lever for growth on the top-line side? And I guess your margin guidance would also imply some decline to flattish margins with such top line growth target, what cost item you are expecting to increase in 2024 then? .

最後，您預期的中個位數成長與目前的1%相比如何？您預計哪個業務部分會成為營收成長的槓桿？我想，在這樣的營收成長目標下，您的利潤率預期也意味著利潤率會下降或持平。那麼您預計2024年哪些成本項目會增加呢？

Okay. And I think on the revenue from enterprise, basically, when we did, I think, transferred IndiHome to Telkomsel, part of the enterprise connectivity we use, I think, brand of IndiHome, in which we -- because of this, we also booked a gross revenue in Telkomsel. So this is intercompany transaction.

好的。關於企業收入，我認為基本上，當我們把IndiHome轉移到Telkomsel時，也就是我們使用的企業連結的一部分，也就是IndiHome品牌，我們也因此在Telkomsel獲得了一筆總收入。所以這是公司間交易。

So when you see from the segment-wise, this looks like the enterprise is declined and actually, it's not. So we mentioned, the IndiHome still grow around 2.7%. In addition to that, I think, bookkeeping side, actually, in the -- some of the subsidiary still ongoing of turnaround. So we do more selective business, I think, acquisition for the projects that's coming to the enterprise. So this becoming more conservative in the growth and some correction in the growth in the subsidiary as well. That's basically the main reason of the enterprise. I think revenue, we booked a decline compared to last year.

所以，從分部來看，企業業務看起來是在下滑，但實際上並非如此。我們之前提到過，IndiHome 仍然成長了 2.7% 左右。除此之外，我認為，在會計方面，實際上，一些子公司仍在扭虧為盈。因此，我們會更加謹慎地開展業務，例如收購即將進入企業業務的項目。因此，企業業務的成長策略變得更加保守，子公司的成長也進行了一些調整。這基本上是企業業務下滑的主因。我認為，我們的收入與去年相比有所下降。

And then on the third question before we go to Telkomsel, which part of the business that could provide the mid-single-digit growth in our business. Actually, 75% of our business is actually coming from, I think, our consumer side that's currently managed by Telkomsel. We see actually the both mobile and also fixed broadband able to provide with a mid-single-digit growth as well on this one.

第三個問題，在我們討論Telkomsel之前，哪個業務部分能夠為我們的業務帶來中等個位數的成長？實際上，我認為我們75%的業務實際上來自目前由Telkomsel管理的消費者業務。我們看到行動和固定寬頻都能帶來中等個位數的成長。

So the other part of the business, of course, coming from enterprise and then the wholesale business still provides almost similar figure or slightly higher than that, for example, in tower business and international business and also enterprise, we expect a kind of improvement this year. This all together will provide us with the basis how we come to the mid-single digit of revenue growth. I think in the EBITDA side, we do expect that we, of course, can beat this. I think guideline 52% margin that we have today. We do expect, I think, the competition is still manageable. And also we can do some, I think, bring in cost control. So I think we do expect around 52% to 53% supposed to be a target we want to achieve.

當然，業務的其他部分，當然來自企業和批發業務，仍然提供了幾乎相同或略高的數字，例如塔式業務、國際業務以及企業業務，我們預計今年會有所改善。所有這些將為我們實現中等個位數的收入成長奠定基礎。我認為在EBITDA方面，我們確實預期可以超越這個數字。我認為我們目前的指導利潤率為52%。我們確實預期競爭仍然可控。而且我認為我們可以採取一些措施，例如控製成本。所以我認為我們確實預期52%到53%左右的利潤率是我們想要實現的目標。

Yes. (inaudible) from Telkomsel here. I would like to share our view on how our study on Telkomsel (inaudible) I think we believe that we need to address various segments of markets that we have in overall markets. And basically, Telkomsel and by.U is our strategy to address both selectively mass market segment, as well as the youth.

是的。 （聽不清楚）我是 Telkomsel 的。我想分享一下我們對 Telkomsel 的研究。 （聽不清楚）我認為我們需要關注我們在整個市場中的各個細分市場。基本上，Telkomsel 和 by.U 是我們針對特定大眾市場和年輕人的策略。

With this broad product portfolio that we have, we have carefully selected the market who actually been very competitive to make sure that our affordability and also competitiveness are maintained in the market. I think from the ARPU decline point of view, we believe it is a balance between how we maintain the market share situation and also trying to still provide the profitability. If you see from the past perspective, I think the Telkomsel Lite positions, we always maintain the price point while we're accelerating the more bonus in the quarter basis. So basically, with that, we believe that we can attract more towards the mass market segment as well as youth with by.U and also Telkomsel Lite.

憑藉我們廣泛的產品組合，我們精心選擇了競爭激烈的市場，以確保我們的產品價格合理，並保持競爭力。我認為，從ARPU下降的角度來看，我們認為這需要在如何維持市場佔有率和獲利能力之間取得平衡。從過去的角度來看，我認為Telkomsel Lite的定位是，我們始終保持價格水平，同時每個季度都在加速增加獎金。因此，我們相信，透過by.U和Telkomsel Lite，我們可以吸引更多大眾市場以及年輕人。

Our next question comes from the line of Arthur Pineda from Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Arthur Pineda。

Several questions, please. Firstly, on Telkomsel. What's causing the quarter-on-quarter drop in external mobile revenues when your peers are growing by mid-single-digit levels on a Q-on-Q basis, I know in the past, you used to mention the legacy revenues. But now your revenue ratio on legacy versus total seems to be very aligned to that of your peers. So I'm just trying to understand why there is a drop in ARPU and drop in revenues?

請問幾個問題。首先，關於Telkomsel。您的同業環比成長都在中等個位數，但是什麼原因導致您的外部行動收入環比下降呢？我知道您以前經常提到傳統業務收入。但現在，您的傳統業務收入佔總收入的比例似乎與同業非常一致。所以，我只是想了解一下，為什麼您的ARPU（每位用戶平均收入）和收入都會下降？

Second question I had is with regard to the margins. Can you help us quantify what would be the transformation-related expenses on the FMC. I recall last year, you mentioned the target was around IDR 0.5 trillion in synergies back and in the second half, yet costs have actually expanded and margins had dropped in the second half. Are there any one-off bookings? And what are the related target synergies for FY '24? And lastly, maybe if I can just ask about the asset spin-off plans. What are the timelines for potential strategic investors for data centers and maybe the fiber business?

我的第二個問題是關於利潤率的。您能否幫助我們量化FMC轉型相關的費用？我記得去年您提到，去年和下半年的目標是實現約0.5兆印尼盾的綜效，但實際上成本在下半年增加，利潤率卻下降了。請問是否有一次性訂單？ 2024財年相關的目標綜效是多少？最後，可以問一下資產剝離計畫嗎？對於資料中心和光纖業務的潛在策略投資者，有什麼時間表嗎？

Arthur, this is Derrick. I'll address your 2 questions. For our Q-on-Q, legacy declined minus 52.2% Q-on-Q. That's actually due to a continued natural decline and a onetime adjustment from the IFRS implementation on legacy business post integration. So this onetime adjustment only applies in Q4 2023, and it will not be reflected in the next quarter, and you'll be back to a normal run rate.

Arthur，我是 Derrick。我來回答你的兩個問題。就我們的環比而言，遺留業務環比下降了 52.2%。這實際上是由於持續的自然下降，以及整合後實施 IFRS 對遺留業務進行的一次性調整。因此，這項一次性調整僅適用於 2023 年第四季度，不會在下一季反映，屆時您的營運率將恢復正常。

So we see this continued natural transition of legacy towards data, and we will project it to be stabilized for the next 1 and 2 years with the current rate, along with our initiatives to manage this decline as well as to prolong the tail. And your thoughts about how we are accelerating the profitability. On Q-on-Q, the ARPU declined by minus 4.3%. As we are investing and we are securing the future of, this is really this balance between customer quality as well as profitability.

因此，我們看到傳統業務向數據業務的自然過渡仍在繼續，我們預計未來1到2年內，這一趨勢將以目前的速度穩定下來，同時我們也採取措施控制下滑趨勢，並延長下滑週期。您如何看待我們加速獲利？環比來看，ARPU值下降了-4.3%。我們正在投資，並確保未來發展，這實際上是在客戶品質和獲利能力之間尋求平衡。

On the, I think, synergy that we expect to be achieved from fixed mobile convergent. So this year, we do expect we can hit around IDR 1.5 trillion. This is coming from the combination of the revenue uplift as well as the cost synergy that we can achieve.

我認為，我們預期固定移動融合將實現協同效應。今年，我們預計收入將達到約1.5兆印尼盾。這得益於收入成長和成本綜效的結合。

Along with that, also, we're going to have, I think, a synergy coming from CapEx efficiencies as well on this one. So that's, I think, about the synergy that we budget in 2024. And is there any other one-off cost in 2023, if I'm not mistaken your question on this. Arthur, I think if we see the cost that's coming quite new in 2023, basically coming from the cost of spectrum 2,100 and 2,300, which coming by the end of 2022.

除此之外，我認為，我們也將獲得資本支出效率的綜效。所以，我認為這就是我們在2024年預算中的綜效。如果沒記錯的話，2023年還有其他一次性成本嗎？ Arthur，我認為2023年的成本將會增加，主要來自2100和2300頻譜的成本，這些頻譜將在2022年底前投入使用。

So basically, this we booked around 868 additional spectrum costs in 2023. The other costs that we make -- consider there, I think kind of one-off, the cost of the electricity of data center because of, I think, energy price increase, around IDR 300 billion. But the cost has already been adjusted right now by the agreement with a customer, they are going to be at the cost. In 2024, we do not expect that we're going to have this one-off cost, so far that we see at that. Number 3 assets spin-off timeline for data center and fiber business.

所以基本上，我們在2023年預留了大約868個額外頻譜成本。我們產生的其他成本——我認為是一次性的，例如資料中心的電力成本，因為能源價格上漲，大約是3000億印尼盾。但目前成本已經根據與客戶的協議進行了調整，將以成本價計算。我們預計2024年不會有這筆一次性成本，目前來看是這樣。第三點是資料中心和光纖業務的資產剝離時間表。

Thank you. I see here (inaudible) getting our target for data center (inaudible) through higher (inaudible)

謝謝。我看到這裡（聽不清楚）正在透過更高的（聽不清楚）來實現資料中心的目標。

Sorry, the line is really bad. is it possible to put the mic nearer? Sorry, the audio is quite bad.

抱歉，線路太差了。能把麥克風放近一點嗎？抱歉，音質很差。

Is it clear now?

現在清楚了嗎？

Much better. Yes.

好多了。是的。

So regarding our time line to unlock the data centers, we are now in the process to hire the business consultant as well the financial advisor. Hopefully, (inaudible) we will start in this first semester and the target will be close at this end of this year. So about the fiber business, we just set up our subsidiary to transfer asset for our fiber optic to the business subsidiary. But for this year, this (inaudible) all Telkom fiber businesses. In 2025, we have a plan to transfer all the asset fiber to this company. And after that, we see that opportunity if we can also fund such partner also to invest together with us and going together. Thank you.

關於資料中心的時間表，我們目前正在聘請業務顧問和財務顧問。希望（聽不清楚）我們能在今年第一季啟動，並在今年底完成目標。關於光纖業務，我們剛成立了子公司，將光纖資產轉移到業務子公司。但就今年而言，這（聽不清楚）是所有Telkom光纖業務。我們計劃在2025年將所有光纖資產轉移到這家公司。之後，如果我們能為這樣的合作夥伴提供資金，讓他們與我們共同投資、共同發展，我們將看到一個機會。謝謝。

Sorry. Just on the first point, it was mentioned there was an IFRS adjustment, which resulted in a reduction in revenues. What is this about? And any guidance what the actual growth would have been like if we were to look at it on a like-for-like basis versus prior quarters? .

抱歉。剛才提到第一點，我們提到了一項國際財務報告準則（IFRS）的調整，這導致了收入的減少。這是什麼意思？如果以年比計算，與前幾季相比，實際成長會是多少？

Yes. Arthur, this is Ramzy from Telkomsel. As you may see that the Q-on-Q legacy declining around 52%. Actually, it is because of the implementation of the IFRS 15, especially for the legacy from our postpaid. It will be only one-off this last quarter. And throughout 2024, it will be back to normal, and we expect that the declining rate is around 28% to 30% on an annual basis.

是的。 Arthur，我是Telkomsel的Ramzy。正如您所看到的，遺留業務環比下降了約52%。實際上，這是由於IFRS 15的實施，尤其是針對我們後付費業務的遺留業務。這只是最後一個季度的一次性影響。到2024年，業務將恢復正常，我們預計年降幅約28%到30%。

Our next question comes from the line of Henry Tedja from Mandiri.

我們的下一個問題來自曼迪里的亨利‧泰德賈 (Henry Tedja)。

This is Henry from Mandiri Sekuritas. Perhaps 2 questions from my end, please. The first is about the IndiHome business. I think Heri mentioned before about the IndiHome Enterprise business, how there are some turnaround in this business, how to be more selective in terms of the enterprise segments, et cetera. But if we talk about -- more about the B2C business segments in IndiHome, we highlight that the IndiHome booked more than 200,000 net subs in the last 2 quarters, but it seems like the revenue growth on a Q-on-Q basis are not aligned with this IndiHome B2C subscriber adds. So could you provide more color on that? What are the drivers for this sluggish IndiHome revenue growth on a Q-on-Q basis?

我是 Mandiri Sekuritas 的 Henry。我想問兩個問題。第一個是關於 IndiHome 業務的。我記得 Heri 之前提到過 IndiHome Enterprise 業務，例如這項業務如何出現轉機，如何在企業細分市場中更具選擇性等等。但如果我們更多地談論 IndiHome 的 B2C 業務，我們會強調 IndiHome 在過去兩個季度淨訂戶超過 20 萬，但其收入環比增長似乎與 IndiHome B2C 用戶增長不符。能否詳細介紹一下？ IndiHome 營收季增緩慢的原因是什麼？

And the second question for the Telkom itself. We highlight that the company booked like more than IDR 500 billion of the unrealized loss in fourth quarter, which due to the MDI investment. Could you provide more colors on that? Any (inaudible) for this unrealized loss in the fourth quarter?

第二個問題是關於印尼電信公司本身的。我們強調，該公司第四季計入了超過5,000億印尼盾的未實現損失，這筆損失是由於MDI的投資造成的。能否提供更多細節？第四季這筆未實現損失的具體金額是多少？ （聽不清楚）？

Okay. Maybe I'll go to the first (inaudible) thought that coming this year. Actually, we booked around IDR 118 billion plus coming per value of GoTo. In addition to that one, some investees in MDI, we need to do also the kind of, I think, fair value valuation based on the method that been also, I think, audited by the -- our auditor and also external parties on this one.

好的。我先談談第一個（聽不清楚）關於今年即將發生的事情。實際上，我們以GoTo的估值計算，預計收入約為1180億印尼盾。除此之外，對於MDI的一些投資對象，我們還需要進行公允價值評估，評估方法也經過了我們的審計師和外部機構的審計。

So it is supposed to replace what is the closest to the real value at that time. So based on that one, several investees, we need to do, I think, book some loss because the valuation is lower compared to the last year. So the amount in total, including the GoTo is around IDR 700 billion. So that's the development, I think, about our investment in the start-up of digital company.

所以它應該取代當時最接近實際價值的資產。基於這一點，我認為我們需要記錄一些損失，因為估值比去年低。所以，包括GoTo在內的總金額約為7000億印尼盾。這就是我們對這家數位新創企業的投資進度。

Yes. I think let me address on the IndiHome consumer part questions. I think, as you mentioned, I think in the first half of last year, we actually booked additional about 245,000, which is improving compared to the first half of last year.

是的。我想先回答一下關於IndiHome消費者的問題。正如您所說，去年上半年我們實際上新增了約24.5萬套預訂，相比去年同期有所改善。

I think from the revenue side, what we've seen so far, I think in the consumer side, we can grow the Q-on-Q basis on 0.3%. Part of the revenue impact is actually beside the additional knowledge we have growth in some of the IndiHome. We're also doing some promotions and also bonuses that we can give. So I think the impact on the revenue is not as much as the additional. However, I think we believe it is a one-off discount that we can give to the customers to attract to have the additional addressable market that we can attract and capturing the penetration. But in the long run, it will still going to be reflected in the revenue growth on our fixed broadband business.

從收入方面來看，就目前來看，我認為在消費者方面，我們的環比成長可以達到0.3%。收入成長的部分原因實際上在於，除了IndiHome業務的成長之外，我們還在進行一些促銷活動，並提供一些獎勵。所以我認為，這些對收入的影響不如額外收入的影響。不過，我認為我們可以透過提供一次性折扣來吸引客戶，從而擴大潛在市場，並提高滲透率。但從長遠來看，這仍將反映在我們固定寬頻業務的營收成長。

Our next question comes from the line of Piyush Choudhary from HSBC.

我們的下一個問題來自匯豐銀行的 Piyush Choudhary。

Yes. I have several questions. Firstly, in the mobile. Subscriber additions have been quite strong in the last 2 quarters. But if I look at service revenue in the fourth quarter, it was flat sequentially. Just trying to understand like if you can dig a bit deeper and help us understand what is happening there? Is it cannibalization of existing subscribers to new plans? Or are you -- like is there a decline happening in the old subscriber base, and that's why this even despite of new subscriber growth not leading to any revenue growth. Any light over there? And what is the outlook for mobile ARPU going forward? And in light of this Telkomsel Lite plan, which you have launched recently, what is the outlook for mobile ARPU, can it further drop from here?

是的。我有幾個問題。首先，在行動領域。過去兩個季度，用戶成長相當強勁。但如果我看一下第四季的服務收入，它環比持平。您能否深入挖掘一下，幫助我們了解那裡發生了什麼事？是新套餐蠶食了現有用戶嗎？還是說，老用戶群正在下降，所以即使新用戶成長，收入也沒有成長。有什麼進展嗎？未來行動ARPU（每位使用者平均收入）的前景如何？考慮到您最近推出的Telkomsel Lite套餐，行動ARPU的前景如何？它還會進一步下降嗎？

Okay. This is Ririek. I would like to address your questions. Yes, the declining ARPU in Q-on-Q basis is basically due to how we apply the right pricing initiatives across our customer segments, and we wanted to stimulate customer productivity. And we were addressing additional segments like the youth and the selective mass market customers. So going forward, we expect ARPU to be stabilized along with the improvement of customer productivity.

好的，我是 Ririek。我想回答你的問題。是的，ARPU 環比下降主要是因為我們在各個客戶群中實施了錯誤的定價策略，並且我們希望刺激客戶的生產力。此外，我們也正在拓展其他細分市場，例如年輕人和選擇性大眾市場客戶。因此，我們預期 ARPU 值將隨著客戶生產力的提高而趨於穩定。

Yes. I think we have shared about -- when we launched Telkomsel Lite, it is really an initiative where we see opportunities to grow our market share in selected areas where we deem that we have that ability to grow. Plus, from a network perspective, we still -- we are still able to optimize the network utilization. So this is a segment that we will be focusing at as well as by.U, which is our youth segment, the customers of tomorrow. So these 2 segments will help us in our perspective to grow market share while balancing profitability.

是的。我想我們已經分享過——當我們推出Telkomsel Lite時，它實際上是一項舉措，讓我們在我們認為有能力成長的特定地區看到了擴大市場份額的機會。此外，從網路角度來看，我們仍然能夠優化網路利用率。因此，這是我們將重點關注的一個細分市場，以及by.U，也就是我們的青年細分市場，未來的客戶。因此，從我們的角度來看，這兩個細分市場將幫助我們在平衡獲利能力的同時擴大市場份額。

Yes, sir, I would like to add some more color on the revenue side. I think if you take a look on the broadband and digital businesses, we are even grow 7.7% on a Q-on-Q basis. Basically, it also drives that our impact on the revenue in the quarter 4 is basically because of the decline on legacy and one-off that we have mentioned before.

是的，先生，我想補充一些關於收入方面的細節。我認為，如果您看一下寬頻和數​​位業務，我們甚至比去年同期成長了7.7%。基本上，這也解釋了第四季度收入受到的影響，主要是因為我們之前提到的傳統業務和一次性業務的下降。

So in terms of aligning on how we grew the customer base with the right approach on the segment addressing to the market, we've seen that, I think the traction on the Q-on-Q basis in terms of broadband revenue are still on the right track. And even further, I think we've seen there is a good positive momentum that we have gained along the way in this year even after we launched the Telkomsel Lite. And it give us confidence to continue to drive the market share that we can gain from the -- especially on the market that we have seen that we have room for us to grow and gain the market share.

因此，就我們如何以正確的方式擴大客戶群並針對特定市場採取正確的策略而言，我們已經看到，寬頻收入的環比成長仍然保持良好勢頭。此外，即使在推出Telkomsel Lite之後，我們也看到了今年我們取得的良好發展勢頭。這給了我們信心，讓我們繼續提升市場份額，尤其是在我們擁有成長空間並不斷提升市場份額的市場。

If I may ask, like on this Telkomsel Lite plan, what percentage of industry customer base or what percentage of your customer base like this footprint has an overlap with this new Telkomsel Lite plan? Because you're saying it's selective, right? So if you can shed some light on that.

恕我直言，像 Telkomsel Lite 這個套餐，有多少行業客戶群，或者說你們的客戶群（例如你們的覆蓋範圍）與新的 Telkomsel Lite 套餐有重疊？因為您說這個套餐是有選擇性的，對吧？您能解釋一下嗎？

And secondly, on IndiHome. Earlier, there was an expectation there will be cost synergies coming in, in second half of 2023, right? But we saw margins actually dropped in fourth quarter at Telkomsel level. So what happened? Is the synergy benefit delayed? Or yes, if you can shed some light there?

其次，關於IndiHome。之前我們預期成本綜效會在2023年下半年顯現，對嗎？但我們發現Telkomsel第四季的利潤率實際上下降了。那麼發生了什麼事？協同效應是否延遲顯現？或者說是的，您能解釋一下嗎？

I think on the Telkomsel Lite plan, we -- when we talk about the selective targeted market, we basically believe that there are certain cities that we carefully select that we can actually gain the market share through the competitive plan that we have in the Telkomsel Lite. And I think if you see from the press point angle, as I mentioned previously, we keep maintaining our price point. But I think given the bonuses, both on local bonuses and also the new bonuses that we apply only for the new subscribers.

我認為，就 Telkomsel Lite 套餐而言，當我們談到選擇性目標市場時，我們基本上認為，我們精心挑選了一些城市，透過 Telkomsel Lite 的競爭性套餐，我們實際上能夠獲得市場份額。而且，正如我之前提到的，從媒體角度來看，我們會保持原有的價格水準。但我認為，考慮到獎勵，包括本地獎勵以及我們專門針對新用戶推出的新獎勵，我們的做法是合理的。

So basically, we believe that although probably in the yield side, when we use the Telkomsel Lite approach, it will be impacted. But in terms of ARPU impact, I think it is not that big compared to actually drop in terms of the ARPU because of this Telkomsel Lite approach. And so far, I think what we believe, especially on Java markets, the Telkomsel Lite have been positively progressing on how we actually attract the competitiveness, again, the pace.

所以，總的來說，我們認為，雖然在收益方面，Telkomsel Lite 方案可能會受到影響。但就 ARPU 而言，我認為相比 Telkomsel Lite 方案導致的 ARPU 實際下降，影響並不大。到目前為止，我認為，尤其是在 Java 市場，Telkomsel Lite 在吸引競爭對手方面取得了積極進展，再次強調，在發展速度方面也取得了進展。

Maybe I'd like to add to particularly to Derrick. So Telkomsel Lite also supports our FMC strategy. Looking at our family members. So we want to really increase penetration to these multiple layers of segments. And we want to leverage the brand and our portfolio to grow the unserved segment. So the goal is really ARPU accretion from productivity and volume increase. So that's our strategy.

我想特別補充一下Derrick。 Telkomsel Lite也支持我們的FMC策略，關注我們的家庭成員。我們希望真正提高對這些多層級細分市場的滲透率。我們希望利用品牌和產品組合來拓展尚未涵蓋的細分市場。因此，我們的目標是透過生產力和業務量的提升來提升ARPU值。這就是我們的戰略。

Yes. To add on the synergy, as we already explained in the previous quarter, actually, we realized certain synergy that we expected on the cost side, at least we realized about IDR 100 billion cost synergy that comes from the optimization and the closing of the outlet go from the existing Telkom Plaza or Telkom (inaudible). It is more than 280 now until December.

是的。說到協同效應，正如我們在上一季已經解釋過的，實際上，我們在成本方面實現了預期的協同效應，至少我們實現了約1000億印尼盾的成本協同效應，這源於優化和關閉現有Telkom Plaza或Telkom（聽不清楚）門市。截至12月，Telkom Plaza或Telkom（聽不清楚）門市數量已超過280家。

And also the content cost that we spent previously on the 2 different channels from Telkom and Telkomsel and also contribute some cost. On the uplift in terms of revenue, we also recognized some uplift revenue, both on the cross-selling and also upselling. As we now more understand about the customer and also, we try to provide the offer to the customer, who are likely to have the same ID that own both fixed and also the mobile.

此外，我們先前在 Telkom 和 Telkomsel 兩個不同管道上投入的內容成本也貢獻了一部分成本。在收入成長方面，我們也實現了一定的收入成長，包括交叉銷售和追加銷售。隨著我們對客戶的了解不斷加深，我們也會努力為那些可能擁有相同身分、同時擁有固定和行動網路的客戶提供合適的服務。

And if you look at the quarter-on-quarter basis, if some of that reflects to the improvement in G&A costs, in the last quarter, a decline by 3.7% and also the cost of service. But it is still early, as we will continue certain initiatives towards the synergy value creation. And as mentioned by Heri, this year, we aim at least about IDR 1.5 trillion, both from the revenue uplift as well as the cost side.

從環比來看，這部分反映了上一季一般及行政管理成本（G&A）的改善，下降了3.7%，服務成本也下降了。但現在還為時過早，因為我們將繼續採取一些舉措，以創造協同價值。正如Heri所提到的，今年我們的目標是至少達到約1.5兆印尼盾，包括收入成長和成本方面。

So, Pak, if there are cost synergies, then why is the guidance more of a flattish margin year-on-year in Q4? Like is there any other cost headwind which you envisage? Or you do -- or this is more of a conservative guidance and you do expect margins to improve?

那麼，Pak，如果存在成本協同效應，那麼為什麼第四季度的利潤率比去年同期持平呢？您是否預見了其他成本上的不利因素？或者您預見了——或者這只是一個較保守的預測，您確實預計利潤率會提高？

Actually, we don't expect any kind of new costs coming to quite -- coming at price this year, except for the, let's say, the cost, for example, if we have new spectrum, which is not in our discussion today. But this is more, as you mentioned, to the counterparty guidance. We do believe this is supposed to be improved next year, the cost situation. I think that's what I can say appears.

實際上，我們預計今年不會出現任何新的成本，除非我們有新的頻譜，但這不在我們今天的討論範圍內。正如您所提到的，這更多是交易對手方的指導。我們確實相信明年成本狀況應該會有所改善。我想這就是我能說的。

We'll take our next question from the line of Sukriti Bansal from Bank of America.

我們將回答美國銀行的 Sukriti Bansal 提出的下一個問題。

Quick 3 questions from my side. Number one, on the transformation-related costs. How come large (inaudible) have been booked in 4Q and not in 3Q when the -- the IndiHome spin-off actually happened, both on marketing and sales expenses for Telkomsel, which have increased 15% Q-on-Q and at the Telkom level G&A expenses, which have increased 33% Q-on-Q. Why is this a 4Q phenomenon? I'll come to my end.

我這邊快速問三個問題。第一，關於轉型相關的成本。為什麼大筆（聽不清）費用都記在了第四季度，而不是在第三季度——IndiHome 確實已經分拆了——Telkomsel 的營銷和銷售費用環比增長了 15%，而 Telkom 的一般及行政費用環比增長了 33%。為什麼這是第四季的現象？我的回答到此結束。

Okay. I think on the cost transformation related. Besides IndiHome, we also did several consultancy with regard to the (inaudible). That's also ongoing up to a year-end. And also when we -- if and when we did the transfer IndiHome to Telkomsel, actually, we are not only focusing on the process of the spin-off itself. But also, basically, we need kind of PMO to answer all the business process can be smoothly run by Telkomsel. And also we try to find, I think, some room for improvement as well whenever this business is run by Telkomsel. That's -- I think that cost, why this has also happened in Q4 and Q3.

好的。我想這與成本轉型有關。除了IndiHome，我們也針對[音訊不清楚]進行了一些諮詢。這些諮詢也將持續到年底。而且，當我們將IndiHome轉移到Telkomsel時，實際上我們關注的不僅僅是分拆本身。而且，基本上，我們需要一個專案管理辦公室（PMO）來確保所有業務流程都能在Telkomsel順利運作。而且，我認為，每當這項業務由Telkomsel營運時，我們也會努力尋找一些改善空間。我認為，這就是成本問題在第四季和第三季也出現的原因。

Yes. To add to Heri point on Telkom side, I think on especially on the marketing and sales expense in Q4, this is due to, I think, seasonality. First of all, I think we believe that Q4 has been -- we're trying to capture the demand on the seasonality. And on top of that, after the merger, we're trying to also accelerate our fixed broadband penetrations to really boosting with many and various new initiatives that we believe it will help us to capture and increase the penetration of the fixed broadband itself.

是的。補充Heri關於Telkom方面的觀點，我認為尤其是第四季的行銷和銷售費用，這是季節性因素造成的。首先，我認為我們認為第四季一直在努力捕捉季節性需求。此外，合併後，我們也正在努力透過各種新措施來加速我們的固定寬頻普及率，我們相信這些措施將有助於我們捕捉並提高固定寬頻本身的普及率。

I think on top of that, we also enhanced our digital capability and also along with how we also manage the promoting beyond the connectivity, which is also the content and also services that we have.

我認為除此之外，我們還增強了我們的數位能力，以及我們如何管理連結之外的推廣，這也是我們擁有的內容和服務。

Understood. Got it. And is there any progress you can share on cross-sell targets for the FMC? You had mentioned that there are about 3 million households, which have only IndiHome, but not Telkomsel, and about 8 million households which have mobile only, but not IndiHome. Is there any progress you can share in terms of where we are now?

明白了。明白了。能分享一下FMC交叉銷售目標的進展嗎？您之前提到，大約有300萬戶家庭只擁有IndiHome，沒有Telkomsel；還有大約800萬戶家庭只擁有行動網絡，沒有IndiHome。能分享一下我們目前的進展嗎？

Yes. Sukriti, I can share our half year outcomes. So we had a solid half year post integration of IndiHome from the convergence perspective. When we started after commercial day 1, which was at 37.4%, we have now reached 44%, and that has been a smooth integration of how we're able to do cross-sell and to serve our existing customers without any disruption.

是的。 Sukriti，我可以分享我們半年來的成果。從整合的角度來看，IndiHome 整合後的半年裡，我們取得了穩健的表現。我們剛開始營運第一天，當時的市佔率為 37.4%，現在已經達到了 44%。這體現了我們順利地整合了交叉銷售，並在不中斷現有客戶的情況下開展了服務。

Got it. Understood. And thirdly, on Telkomsel Lite, you mentioned that there are specific areas and cities where you're aiming at which you're aiming from these packages. Any further light you can share on which particular areas. You mentioned Java, I think. Is this more a Java focused initiative? And where are you seeing more traction?

明白了。第三，關於 Telkomsel Lite，您提到這些套餐的目標客戶是特定的地區和城市。能否進一步說明一下具體是哪些地區？我記得您提到了 Java。這是一個更側重 Java 的計劃嗎？您認為哪些地區較有吸引力？

Yes. I think on the Telkom side strategy, as we mentioned before, we believe that we have addressed the mass market segment to selectively in the specific area, mainly it's in Java and some of the city outskirts of Java as well, which we believe, I think the competitions are actually comparable against [rupees] And we also believe that our network competitiveness also room more to grow actually (inaudible) For us to actually push further, we're giving up some of the bonuses within the same price that we have, I think. On top of that, I think Telkomsel Lite, what we believe also will help us to improve our brand perceptions in terms of how we can address the mass market segments instead of how we're going to continuously focus with both Halo and also Prabayar for high-value customer segments.

是的。我認為就Telkom的策略而言，正如我們之前提到的，我們已經在特定區域選擇性地瞄準了大眾市場，主要是爪哇島及其周邊地區的一些城市。我們認為，這些地區的競爭實際上與[盧比]相當。我們也相信，我們的網路競爭力還有更大的成長空間。為了進一步發展，我認為我們會在現有價格不變的情況下放棄一些額外優惠。此外，我認為Telkomsel Lite也將幫助我們提升品牌認知度，讓我們能夠更好地瞄準大眾市場，而不是繼續專注於Halo和Prabayar等高價值客戶群。

And I think what Derrick mentioned on the FMC strategy, we would like to also stress out again, when we have this FMC, we realize that we cannot only focus on high-value customer only, but we also have to address more youth as well as the mass market segments, which we believe within the family, also have to have that to be covered.

我認為 Derrick 提到的 FMC 策略，我們也想再次強調，當我們有了這個 FMC，我們意識到我們不能只專注於高價值客戶，而且我們還必須解決更多的年輕人以及大眾市場領域，我們相信在家庭內部，也必須涵蓋這些領域。

And with Telkomsel Lite and also by.U in place now in the market, we believe that we have addressed that, and we will use that for us to continue to leverage our mobile penetration using our FMC strategy, which I think was to continuously increase, not individual ARPU, but hopefully, will improve the ARPU per household for ARPA, we call it. .

隨著 Telkomsel Lite 和 by.U 目前在市場上的推出，我們相信我們已經解決了這個問題，我們將利用這一點，繼續利用我們的 FMC 策略來提高我們的行動滲透率，我認為這將持續增加，不是個人 ARPU，而是希望提高我們所說的 ARPA 的每戶 ARPU。

Got it. And just one last thing. Any further clarity on 5G auctions. Can we expect them still at some point this year? And any timeline that you are expecting?

明白了。最後還有一件事。關於5G拍賣還有什麼進一步的說明嗎？我們還能在今年某個時候期待它嗎？您預計有什麼時間表嗎？

Okay. Yes. To answer the question on the strategy of 5G. Auction, yes, tentatively is going to be in Q2 or Q3 this year. And (inaudible) said it will also come with some incentives. So it is good for the industry. Let's hope that it will happen that way.

好的。是的。回答關於5G戰略的問題。拍賣，是的，暫定於今年第二季或第三季進行。 （聽不清楚）並且表示還會附帶一些激勵措施。所以這對產業有利。希望事情會這樣發展。

Our next question comes from the line of Ranjan Sharma from JP Morgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Ranjan Sharma。

A couple of questions. Maybe I can take them one by one. First question is on these new plans, which help you target like more of mass market segment and more competitive in nature. How we should look at the areas to launch these plans in? So that's the first question. And I will talk to you.

有幾個問題，我可以一一回答。第一個問題是關於這些新計畫的，它們能幫助您瞄準更多大眾市場，而且更具競爭力。我們應該如何考慮在哪些地區推出這些計劃？這是第一個問題。我會和您詳細討論。

Yes. Ranjan, just to share the Telkomsel Lite strategy, we want to address opportunities that we could still increase our market share. So we have increased our product competitiveness, but we will ensure that there is the ARPU upward trend. If you look at what we are offering, it is the same price point, but we are offering more local quota in our product. So that will help us to address the principles of a healthy market on that. At the same time, we want to increase our subscriber base and grow.

是的。 Ranjan，我想分享Telkomsel Lite的策略。我們希望抓住機遇，並繼續提升市場佔有率。因此，我們提升了產品競爭力，同時確保ARPU值維持上升趨勢。如果您看一下我們提供的產品，會發現價格保持不變，但我們在產品中提供了更多本地配額。這將有助於我們維護健康的市場原則。同時，我們希望擴大用戶群並實現成長。

So it is targeted rollout. We want to make sure that we optimize relevance, and we will achieve yield as compared to our competitors, yes. As just now we mentioned, it is part of our FMC strategy to target the different members of the household. So beyond the head of the household, we want to have our plans to reach out to other family members. So it is aligned to our strategy to increase penetration of the different players of segments to cement our FMC cross-sell and upsell strategy.

所以這是有針對性的推廣。我們希望確保優化相關性，並實現比競爭對手更高的收益。正如我們剛才提到的，針對不同家庭成員是我們FMC策略的一部分。除了戶主之外，我們還希望制定計劃，涵蓋其他家庭成員。這與我們提升不同細分市場參與者滲透率的策略一致，從而鞏固我們的FMC交叉銷售和追加銷售策略。

I think to add some color on how we select area. We believe, I think, of course, we're looking at how we can always address the competitiveness against the peers. Number two, we also select the area where we have the room for us to grow in terms of (inaudible) grow as well as the network competitiveness again the pace as well. And I think what we've also seen that the progress so far been good and positive structures on our end, and we believe this is the right strategy as we also address the complete segments as we go along.

我想補充我們如何選擇領域。我們當然在思考如何始終面對與同行的競爭。其次，我們也會選擇在成長（聽不清楚）以及網路競爭力上有成長空間的領域，並維持成長速度。我認為，到目前為止，我們已經取得了良好進展，並且結構積極，我們相信這是正確的策略，因為我們也會在推進過程中解決所有細分市場的問題。

If I can just follow up on that. A lot of focus of the discussion on like market share compared to plans, but also profitability. You've seen like Telkomsel EBITDA margin -- sorry, Telkomsel EBITDA declined by 3% in 1 quarter's time. And I think the guidance is also (inaudible) improvements in the coming period, either, despite higher customer numbers or revenues. So is it like that you're going to see some costs which go up further this year? Or that these are basically like very low-margin products that you're offering for competition reasons?

可以繼續補充一下嗎？討論的重點主要集中在市場佔有率與套餐的比較，以及獲利能力。您已經看到Telkomsel的EBITDA利潤率——抱歉，Telkomsel的EBITDA在一個季度內下降了3%。我認為，儘管客戶數量或收入增加，但未來一段時間的業績指引（聽不清楚）也會有所改善。那麼，今年您的成本是否會進一步上漲？或者說，您提供的這些產品基本上是利潤率很低的產品，是出於競爭原因提供的？

Yes. In terms of the margin, as we already explained earlier, there's also some costs due to declining in legacy. But as we see the third quarter compared to the fourth quarter, actually, the margin is around 46% to 47%. And as we provide the guidance for this year, we aim at around 46% to 48% in terms of (inaudible) margin. This will come on the normalized impact of legacy as well as the initiatives that we already been done on the cost efficiency, especially not only in the FMC side, but also in the other areas, which at some point, like in the network operation as well.

是的。就利潤率而言，正如我們之前解釋的那樣，由於傳統業務的下滑，也會產生一些成本。但從第三季與第四季的對比來看，利潤率實際上在46%到47%左右。我們今年的業績指引是，利潤率目標在46%到48%左右。這將取決於傳統業務的正常化影響，以及我們已經採取的提高成本效率的舉措，尤其是在FMC方面，也包括其他領域，例如網路營運方面。

Okay. And if you can just share like, I think your earnings are down this year. Should we expect the same level of dividend payment as last year? Or should we expect around like IDR 70 in payout?

好的。您能否分享一下，我認為今年的盈利有所下降。我們預期股利支付水準應該與去年持平嗎？還是應該預計派息金額在70印尼盾左右？

Okay. Thank you, Ranjan. On the dividend as we used to say to you and also other analysts, EBITDA that we used to pay around 60% to 80% of net income. Our net income, as reported, grew by 18.3%. So we do expect to still pay with the same dividend payout ratio. With that, we do expect that we can, I think, pay higher dividend per share.

好的。謝謝你，Ranjan。關於股息，正如我們之前向您和其他分析師提到的，EBITDA（息稅折舊攤提前利潤）通常佔淨收入的60%到80%。據報告，我們的淨收入成長了18.3%。因此，我們預計仍將維持相同的股息支付率。因此，我認為我們預計每股股息可以更高。

You want to pay a higher dividend per share in 2023? .

您想在 2023 年支付更高的每股股息嗎？

We will propose that one.

我們將提出這個建議。

We have reached the end of the Q&A session. Thank you very much for all your questions. I'll now turn the conference back to Ahmad Reza for closing comments.

問答環節到此結束。非常感謝大家的提問。現在，請艾哈邁德·雷札作最後總結發言。

Thank you, everyone, for participating in today's call. Therefore, just for those whose questions are not addressed yet. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact us directly. Thank you. .

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。因此，對於那些尚未解答的問題，我們在此僅作解答。如果您還有其他問題，請隨時直接與我們聯繫。謝謝。

Thank you. That concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。現在可以掛斷電話了。