Bancorp Inc (TBBK) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Bancorp, Inc. second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Bancorp, Inc. 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

I would not like to turn the conference call over to Andres Viroslav. Please go ahead.

我不想將電話會議交給安德烈斯·維羅斯拉夫 (Andres Viroslav)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good morning and thank you for joining us today for the Bancorp second quarter 2025 financial results conference call. On the call with me today are Damian Kozlowski, Chief Executive Officer; and Martin Egan, our Interim Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝您，接線生。早上好，感謝您今天參加 Bancorp 2025 年第二季財務業績電話會議。今天與我一起通話的有執行長 Damian Kozlowski 和我們的臨時財務長 Martin Egan。

This morning's call is being webcast on our website at www.bancorp.com. There will be a replay of the call available via webcast on our website beginning at approximately 12 PM Eastern Time today. The dial in for the replay is 1-8888-660-6264. With a passcode of 45285.

今天早上的電話會議將在我們的網站 www.bancorp.com 上進行網路直播。會議重播將於今天美國東部時間中午 12 點左右開始透過網路直播提供。重播的撥號號碼是 1-8888-660-6264。密碼為 45285。

Before I turn the call over to Damian, I would like to remind everyone that our comments and responses to questions reflects managements for you as of today, July 25, 2025. Yesterday we issued our second quarter earnings release and updated investor presentation. Both are available on our investor relations website.

在我將電話轉給達米安之前，我想提醒大家，我們的評論和對問題的回答反映了截至今天（2025 年 7 月 25 日）的管理。昨天我們發布了第二季財報和更新的投資者介紹。兩者均可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。

We will make certain forward-looking statements on this call. These statements are subject to the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risk and uncertainty that could cause actual results to differ materially from the expectations and assumptions we mentioned today.

我們將在本次電話會議上做出一些前瞻性的陳述。這些聲明受 1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法案的安全港條款約束，並受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們今天提到的預期和假設有重大差異。

These factors are uncertainties are discussed in our reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. In addition, we'll be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures during this call. Additional details and reconciliations of GAAP to adjusted non-GAAP financial measures are in the earnings release and the investor presentation.

這些不確定因素已在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告和文件中進行了討論。此外，我們將在本次電話會議中參考某些非公認會計準則財務指標。更多詳細資訊以及 GAAP 與調整後的非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳情況請參閱收益報告和投資者介紹。

Please note that the Bancorp undertakes no obligation to publicly release the results of any revisions to forward-looking statements which may be made to reflect events or circumstances after the date hereof or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events.

請注意，Bancorp 不承擔公開發布前瞻性陳述任何修訂結果的義務，這些修訂可能反映本公告日期之後的事件或情況，或反映意外事件的發生。

Now I'd like to turn the call over to the Bancorp's Chief Executive Officer, Damian Kozlowski. Damian?

現在我想將電話轉給 Bancorp 的執行長 Damian Kozlowski。達米安？

Thank you, Andres. Good morning, everyone. The Bancorp earned $1.27 per diluted share in the second quarter on year-over-year revenue growth of 11%, excluding fintech loan, credit enhancement income, with expense growth year over year of 11%. EPS growth was 21% year-over-year. Our fintech ecosystem continues to be the driver of revenue growth.

謝謝你，安德烈斯。大家早安。該合眾銀行第二季每股攤薄收益 1.27 美元，營收年增 11%（不含金融科技貸款和信用增進收入），支出較去年同期成長 11%。每股收益較去年同期成長21%。我們的金融科技生態系統持續成為收入成長的驅動力。

GDV climbed 18% year-over-year, with total fee and related interest income growth from all fintech activities grew 30%. On July 14, we announced a five-year expansion of our relationship with Block in which we added debit and prepaid card issuance and related services for Cash App customers. Subject to program implementation timelines, the additional services are expected to begin as early as the first quarter of '26. And we expect this program to enhance growth of GDP and fees into the future.

GDV 年增 18%，所有金融科技活動的總費用和相關利息收入成長 30%。7 月 14 日，我們宣布與 Block 建立為期五年的合作關係，為 Cash App 客戶增加簽帳卡和預付卡發行及相關服務。根據計畫實施時間表，預計附加服務最早將於 2026 年第一季開始。我們預計該計劃將促進未來 GDP 和費用的成長。

We also announced a substantial increase to our share repurchase program over the next 18 months to $500 million, beginning in the third quarter of '25. This buyback will be funded by core earnings growth and replacement of maturing senior unsecured debt at the Bancorp holding company of $100 million aggregate outstanding, with approximately $200 million of new senior unsecured debt at the Bancorp Holding Company. We anticipate that $300 million of shares will be purchased for the remainder of '25. This is an increase of $225 million or 300% over the current buyback of $75 million for the last two quarters of 2025.

我們也宣布，從 2025 年第三季開始，在未來 18 個月內大幅增加股票回購計劃，金額達到 5 億美元。此次回購的資金將來自核心獲利成長和 Bancorp 控股公司到期的未償還優先無擔保債務（總額為 1 億美元）的置換，以及 Bancorp 控股公司約 2 億美元的新優先無擔保債務。我們預計在 25 年剩餘時間內將購買價值 3 億美元的股票。這比 2025 年最後兩季的 7,500 萬美元回購額增加了 2.25 億美元，增幅為 300%。

In 2026, $200 million worth of shares are planned to be purchased with $50 million of purchases each quarter. Lastly, we are continuing to maintain our guidance of $5.25 earnings per share for 2025. We also are announcing Project 7, a project in which we are targeting at least a $7 earnings per share run rate by the end of '26. We plan to accomplish this goal through fintech revenue growth, buybacks of shares, and efficiency and productivity gains by reallocating and or reducing resources where appropriate.

2026年計畫購買價值2億美元的股票，每季購買5,000萬美元。最後，我們繼續維持 2025 年每股收益 5.25 美元的預期。我們還宣布了第 7 號項目，該項目的目標是到 26 年底實現每股收益至少 7 美元的運行率。我們計劃透過金融科技收入成長、股票回購以及在適當情況下重新分配或減少資源來提高效率和生產力，從而實現這一目標。

I now turn the call over to Martin Egan, our Interim CFO.

現在我將電話轉給我們的臨時財務長馬丁伊根 (Martin Egan)。

Thank you, Damian. Excluding the consumer fintech loan credit enhancement income, non-interest income for the second quarter of 2025 was $40.5 million which was 32% higher than the second quarter of 2024. Total fintech fees accounted for most of that increase. Prepaid, debit card, ACH, and other payment fees increased 14% to $31.7 million over that period, and consumer credit fintech fees increased $3.8 million to $4 million.

謝謝你，達米安。不包括消費者金融科技貸款信用增進收入，2025 年第二季的非利息收入為 4,050 萬美元，比 2024 年第二季高出 32%。金融科技費用總額佔了這一增長的大部分。在此期間，預付卡、金融卡、ACH 和其他支付費用增加了 14%，達到 3,170 萬美元，消費者信貸金融科技費用增加了 380 萬美元，達到 400 萬美元。

In the second quarter, credit enhancement income was $43.2 million and the provision for consumer fintech loans was also $43.2 million. Overall, loan balances grew 17% year-over-year, while loan balances is excluding consumer fintech loans grew 6%. Consumer fintech loans increased 871% year-over-year to $680.5 million. And 19% of linked quarter.

第二季度，信用增進收入為 4,320 萬美元，消費金融科技貸款撥備也為 4,320 萬美元。整體而言，貸款餘額年增17%，不包括消費金融科技貸款的貸款餘額成長了6%。消費者金融科技貸款年增 871%，達到 6.805 億美元。佔季後的 19%。

Average fintech solution deposits for the quarter increased 20% to $7.76 billion from $6.44 billion in the second quarter of 2024. Net interest income was 4% higher than second quarter of 2024, but the second quarter net interest margin was 4.44% compared to 4.07% for the first quarter of 2025.

本季金融科技解決方案平均存款從 2024 年第二季的 64.4 億美元成長 20% 至 77.6 億美元。淨利息收入比 2024 年第二季高出 4%，但第二季淨利差為 4.44%，而 2025 年第一季為 4.07%。

The second quarter of 2025 included a $3.1 million dollar of interest on CRE-2, which was repaid in that quarter as a result of sale underlying collateral. Additionally, these are the majority of our growing consumer fintech loan balances are recorded as not interest income, which impacts both net interest income and net interest margin.

2025 年第二季的 CRE-2 利息為 310 萬美元，該利息已於該季度透過出售基礎抵押品償還。此外，我們不斷增長的消費者金融科技貸款餘額中的大部分都被記錄為非利息收入，這會影響淨利息收入和淨利差。

Not interest expense for the second quarter of 2025 was $57.2 million which was 11% higher than the second quarter of 2024. The increase included a 10% increase in salaries and benefits. Additional details regarding our loan portfolios are included in related tables in our press release, as our earnings contributions of our payments.

2025 年第二季的非利息支出為 5,720 萬美元，比 2024 年第二季高出 11%。此次加薪包括薪資和福利增加10%。有關我們的貸款組合的更多詳細資訊包含在我們新聞稿中的相關表格中，作為我們付款的收益貢獻。

And now let's turn to call back to Damian.

現在讓我們回頭問問達米安。

Thank you, Martin. Operator, could you please open the lines for questions?

謝謝你，馬丁。接線員，您能打開熱線來回答問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Tim Switzer, KBW.

（操作員指示）Tim Switzer，KBW。

Good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. Congratulations on the new partnership with Block and Cash App. Can you provide some details on if this is an entirely new product for them or if you are a new sponsor for a current product, and then any color -- sorry, go ahead.

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。恭喜與 Block 和 Cash App 建立新的合作關係。您能否提供一些詳細信息，說明這對他們來說是否是一個全新的產品，或者您是否是當前產品的新贊助商，然後是任何顏色 - 抱歉，請繼續。

No, sorry, go ahead.

不，抱歉，請繼續。

I was just like any color you can provide on what exactly you'll be doing like this part of your rapid funds transfer offering like your other program with Bluff.

我只是想了解您具體會做什麼，例如快速資金轉帳的這一部分，就像您與 Bluff 合作的其他計劃一樣。

No, so we -- no, this is the card issuance. So we already do the rapid funds transfer. There's 15 use cases that were transferred Wells Fargo during last year, and you saw that growth in our other payment and ACH line of our business. This is the entire portfolio of, the card issuance per block, whether they use us exclusively or like in many other cases, they use, another bank.

不，所以我們——不，這是發卡。所以我們已經進行了快速資金轉移。去年，富國銀行轉移了 15 個用例，您將看到我們業務的其他支付和 ACH 業務線有所成長。這是每個區塊的整個卡片發行組合，無論他們是專門使用我們的卡，還是像在許多其他情況下一樣使用其他銀行的卡。

We'll see, but this is one of the big programs, there are three dominant programs Chime, PayPal, and Block. And so we now have the RFT business and the card issuance business. This is a, as everyone knows, this is one of the major players in the fintech world, and they have over 50 million customers. So it's very meaningful, to -- it will be very meaningful in the future to both GDV and fees growth.

我們會看到，但這是一個大項目，有三個主要項目：Chime、PayPal 和 Block。所以我們現在有了RFT業務和發卡業務。眾所周知，這是金融科技領域的主要參與者之一，擁有超過 5,000 萬名客戶。所以這非常有意義——對於未來的 GDV 和費用成長都將非常有意義。

Okay, so this is for the Cash App card.

好的，這是 Cash App 卡。

Correct.

正確的。

Issuing. Okay, now are you supplementing Sutton Bank who's currently the issuer or replacing them?

發行。好的，現在您是在補充目前的發行人 Sutton Bank 還是取代他們？

Well, the mandate is to replace that volume over time.

嗯，任務是隨著時間的推移替換該卷。

Okay, great. And then I also wanted to ask about the lower deposits this quarter. Was that kind of an action by you to manage the balance sheet or what was the driver there?

好的，太好了。然後我還想問一下本季存款減少的情況。這是您為了管理資產負債表而採取的行動嗎？還是什麼原因導致的？

Correct, that's -- there was a couple of -- that there's tax receipts during that part of the year, and we actually took some savings deposits off balance sheet and we also had $500 million of insurance deposits through our corporate payments partners for the California wildfires. So that's running off plus the tax season. It was a very big tax season this year. And then we took some of the excess liquidity also off balance sheets. So that was all balance sheet management driven.

正確，那是——有幾筆——在一年中的那段時間有稅收收入，我們實際上從資產負債表中提取了一些儲蓄存款，我們還通過我們的企業支付合作夥伴為加州野火提供了 5 億美元的保險存款。這就是流失加上報稅季節。今年是一個非常重要的報稅季節。然後，我們也從資產負債表中提取了部分過剩流動性。所以這一切都是由資產負債表管理所驅動的。

Got it. Okay, and then we saw the criticized loans and non-accrual step up a little bit in the rebel book. Can you -- with the bulk of, that portfolio reaching maturity over the next year, can you provide some color on borrowers' ability to make the balloon payment? How many have taken, the one-year extension versus paying off the loan entirely? How many need to do inject additional equity or find another lender?

知道了。好的，然後我們看到在反叛書中受到批評的貸款和非應計費用增加。由於大部分的投資組合將在明年到期，您能否提供一些有關借款人償還期末貸款能力的資訊？有多少人選擇延長一年而不是全部還清貸款？有多少人需要注入額外股權或尋找另一個貸款人？

Yeah, so this is -- it's not like a point in time. We're always working with these borrowers, so we have a lot of visibility as to their business plans and whether they plan to recap or do something else potentially if there's a problem, or just simply to repay or extend the loan.

是的，所以這——它不像是一個時間點。我們一直與這些借款人合作，因此我們對他們的商業計劃以及他們是否計劃在出現問題時重新融資或採取其他行動，或者只是簡單地償還或延長貸款有很清晰的了解。

So in the case where they're doing their business plan and need a little bit more time, there's kind of a natural extension, and that's gone up over recent times just because of market conditions, which we're fine with, obviously, if you have a performing property and it's cash flowing and it's metal, it's requirements, extensions are a good thing for us.

因此，如果他們正在製定商業計劃，並且需要更多時間，那麼就會出現一種自然的延期，而最近由於市場狀況，延期有所增加，我們對此沒有意見，顯然，如果你擁有一項有業績的資產，並且有現金流和金屬需求，延期對我們來說是件好事。

In the case, where -- and what happens is that you see this way before, while many of these loans were done in this vintage, we have a lot of visibility. So if there's any issues with that, they would have already appeared in the criticized or substandard assets. So it's not like there's this -- the date and then we don't know what's going on and we don't know what's going to happen with the borrowers. So we've been working through that over the last year.

在這種情況下，你以前也看到過這種情況，雖然許多貸款都是在這個時期發放的，但我們對這一情況有很高的了解。因此，如果存在任何問題，它們早就出現在受到批評或不合格的資產中了。所以，這並不是說只有日期，我們不知道會發生什麼，也不知道借款人會發生什麼。因此，我們在過去的一年裡一直在努力解決這個問題。

So you don't -- we don't expect a big another spike in substandard assets. We had kind of a spike in the third, fourth quarter of last year, went down a little bit in the fourth quarter, and it's been a little bit stable. Hopefully we'll be able to work through that the next. It's taking a little longer than we want. We had the Aubrey situation where we weren't able to close the property, but we're hoping over the next two quarters that'll go down meaningfully.

因此，我們預計次級資產數量不會再次大幅增加。去年第三季和第四季，我們的銷售額出現了飆升，第四季則略有下降，目前已經比較穩定。希望我們下次能夠解決這個問題。這比我們期望的時間還要長一點。我們遇到了奧布里的情況，無法關閉該房產，但我們希望在接下來的兩個季度內，這一數字會大幅下降。

Okay, great. Thank you, Damian.

好的，太好了。謝謝你，達米安。

Joe Yanchunis, Raymond James.

喬揚丘尼斯、雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Good morning.

早安.

Good morning, David.

早安，大衛。

So I was hoping to kind of continue the credit discussion there. I -- with respect to the [Aubrey] I believe it was undergoing some renovations before the prior contract was terminated. Are those renovations continuing and are you guys funding those?

所以我希望繼續討論信用問題。我——關於[奧布里]，我相信它在之前的合約終止之前正在進行一些翻修。這些翻修工程還在繼續嗎？你們提供資金嗎？

Yeah, so there are about 20 units available to rent, so the occupancy has gone up dramatically over the last eight months from the mid-30s to the mid-60s. And so there's already 20 units that have been totally reconditioned that are ready to be leased out. There are some additional work to do, but we're inactive discussions with potential purchases of the property, and that'll really depend over the next six weeks.

是的，大約有 20 個單位可供出租，因此入住率在過去八個月中從 30 多套大幅上升至 60 多套。目前已有 20 個單位經過徹底翻新並準備出租。還有一些額外的工作要做，但我們還沒有就潛在的房產購買進行積極的討論，這實際上取決於接下來的六週。

If we don't get that traction to dispose of the property, then we'll probably finish the balance of the units. I think about. It's in the 10% to 15% range we will fund it, obviously that we have the deposit, hopefully we'll be able to recapture that. And then, the equation would be at that point if we levered, excuse me, fully, leased up the property, then, we would look not only to get out of the, base loan that we have. But we would also look to get a gain on the property at that point if we were able to lease it up to it to the 90% region.

如果我們得不到處置該財產的動力，那麼我們可能會完成單位的餘額。我想想。我們將提供 10% 到 15% 的資金，顯然我們有存款，希望我們能夠收回這筆錢。然後，如果我們利用槓桿，對不起，完全租賃該房產，那麼，我們不僅會考慮擺脫我們擁有的基本貸款。但如果我們能夠將房產出租給 90% 的地區，我們也希望從中獲得收益。

I appreciate that and one more on your expanded partnership with Block are there going to be any associated expenses leading up to the new card program?

我很感激，還有一點關於您與 Block 擴大合作關係的問題，新卡計劃是否會產生任何相關費用？

We're very -- yes, so it's our base infrastructure is very leverageable in many of the categories, but there will be incremental hires. So, there won't be a lot. We'll have to -- and we're getting a lot of efficiencies over time, and productivity enhancements through things like machine learning. Hopefully, AI, will kick in in the next year or two.

是的，我們的基礎設施在許多類別中都具有很大的利用價值，但我們也會增加招募。所以，不會有很多。我們必須這樣做——而且隨著時間的推移，我們的效率和生產力都會透過機器學習等方式提高。希望人工智慧能夠在未來一兩年內發揮作用。

But there will be additional resources. So there might be a little bit extra in the third and fourth quarters ramping up, but usually as the volume, that's maybe a few, but when the volume starts kicking in, then we'll have to assess adding additional resources. But then of course, we'll be getting large volume and revenue increases, so it'll be offset obviously. So a little bit of build maybe, but then when the volume comes in, yeah, we'll have to add additional resources depending on where we are with our productivity gains.

但還會有額外的資源。因此，第三季和第四季可能會有一點額外的成長，但通常隨著交易量的增加，這個數字可能會很小，但當交易量開始增加時，我們必須評估是否增加額外的資源。但當然，我們的銷售和收入都會大幅增加，所以顯然會被抵銷。因此，可能需要進行少量建設，但是當產量增加時，是的，我們將必須根據生產力提高的程度來增加額外的資源。

And then just kind of sticking with the productivity gains, you mentioned in your release, targeting 4Q '26 EPS of at least $1.75 which will be driven by several factors including, these productivity gains. Can you talk about, where you see the benefits of AI impacting your business and it sounds like that might be a latter half of '26 event, if I kind of read the tea leaves right in your prior answer.

然後堅持生產力提高，正如您在新聞稿中提到的那樣，目標是 26 年第四季度每股收益至少達到 1.75 美元，這將受到包括生產力提高在內的多種因素的推動。您能否談談，您認為人工智慧對您的業務有何影響？如果我對您先前的回答沒有誤解的話，這聽起來可能是 26 年事件的後半部分。

Well, there's two things. That's one thing. The first thing though is that we really have had two banks kind of operating synergistically, but two banks. One was more of a traditional bank, while we were levering up the bank, spread, increases dominated, kind of our profitability, but that's switching to our -- it's not no longer a payments bank, it's really a middle office fintech and technology platform, that ecosystem that we built for the fintech industry.

嗯，有兩件事。這是一回事。但首先，我們確實有兩家銀行在協同運營，但只是兩家。一個更像是一家傳統銀行，雖然我們正在利用銀行槓桿，增加利差，增加主導，這是我們的盈利能力，但這正在轉向我們 - 它不再是一家支付銀行，它實際上是一個中台金融科技和技術平台，是我們為金融科技行業構建的生態系統。

And so that is rapidly, obviously growing very quickly, adding new partners and product sets, and so we're becoming much more focused on that fintech bank. So as that happens, we've already said for years that we're going to take some of the traditional businesses off the balance sheet that will be lower, on balance sheet for those businesses and we'll need to reallocate the resources as the fintech business increases its use of the balance sheet, right?

因此，它顯然發展得非常快，增加了新的合作夥伴和產品組合，因此我們更加關注這家金融科技銀行。因此，當這種情況發生時，我們多年來已經說過，我們將把一些傳統業務從資產負債表中剔除，這些業務的資產負債表將處於較低水平，隨著金融科技業務增加其對資產負債表的使用，我們需要重新分配資源，對嗎？

And in many cases, that's just a reallocation. We want to get to a situation. In three years, five years, where we add a couple 100 people. We go from 800 to 1,000 people, but when we double the net income, we're not going to go from 800 people to 1,600 people, right? So some of that is that we allocating resources from the traditional to the fintech bank.

在很多情況下，這只是重新分配。我們想要達到這樣的境況。三年、五年內，我們增加了幾百人。我們的員工人數從 800 人增加到 1,000 人，但是當我們的淨收入翻倍時，我們不會從 800 人增加到 1,600 人，對嗎？因此，我們將資源從傳統銀行分配到金融科技銀行。

Now on the AI front, there's so much happening in this space. One of the key areas where it's likely that we're already using tools. It's in our -- we're using broad tools for people to get more productive, but we're using tools and say for legal contracts, et cetera, where AI is very well suited. But going into the future.

現在，在人工智慧領域，這個領域發生了很多事情。我們可能已經在使用工具的關鍵領域之一。我們正在使用廣泛的工具來幫助人們提高工作效率，但我們也在使用工具來處理法律合約等等，而人工智慧非常適合這些領域。但走向未來。

There are things like SARS filing, doing the initial work where there could be big productivity gains, and so we're not going to be the first person to do it, but we're already studying those things and we really want to lean into it in '26. So we're looking for use cases, very aggressively. We don't -- of course, these are models, so they have to be tested, and they have to be robust.

有一些事情，例如 SARS 備案，做一些初步工作可能會大大提高生產力，所以我們不會是第一個這樣做的人，但我們已經在研究這些事情，我們真的希望在 26 年全力投入其中。因此，我們正在積極尋找用例。我們不會——當然，這些都是模型，所以必須經過測試，而且必須堅固。

We have to make sure the quality control is there and testing is there, but we think it's going to have an impact going into, especially in part of '26 and '27. They're becoming just better tools. We're finding out -- use cases are being tested in the industry, and we think it'll make good gains, which means that obviously as we grow to the first point, we won't have to go. From doubling the amount of people into the future when we have sizable gains in GDB which we expect, right?

我們必須確保品質控制和測試到位，但我們認為這會產生影響，特別是在 26 年和 27 年的部分時間。它們正在成為更好的工具。我們發現 - 用例正在行業中進行測試，我們認為它會帶來良好的收益，這意味著顯然隨著我們發展到第一點，我們就不必再離開了。當我們預計未來 GDB 會有可觀的收益時，人數就會翻倍，對嗎？

We've been over trend for a while. Adding Block is going to add another a leg to the GDB growth, and we want to make sure that we can resource that very effectively and productively with the best use of tools in areas like AI.

我們已超越潮流一段時間了。增加 Block 將為 GDB 的成長增添另一根支柱，我們希望確保能夠透過充分利用 AI 等領域的工具，非常有效且有效率地為其提供資源。

Very thorough answer. I appreciate you taking my questions this morning.

非常透徹的回答。感謝您今天上午回答我的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

(inaudible) Capital.

（聽不清楚）資本。

Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking my call. I have a few questions about the REBL portfolio. First is we haven't seen your June 10-Q yet, but from March, the disclosure was roughly $1.4 billion of REBL loans would be maturing within the next 12 months.

嘿，大家早安。謝謝您接聽我的電話。我對 REBL 投資組合有幾個疑問。首先，我們還沒有看到你們 6 月的 10 季財報，但從 3 月開始，披露的資訊顯示，大約 14 億美元的 REBL 貸款將在未來 12 個月內到期。

And so my first question is, given where interest rates are, third-party capital availability for these types of properties. Would you expect that the majority of that $1.4 billion would be refinanced by third parties, or should we instead expect that you guys will end up having to extend and modify those loan maturities?

所以我的第一個問題是，考慮到利率，這些類型的房產是否有第三方資本可用。您是否預計這 14 億美元中的大部分將由第三方進行再融資，或者我們是否應該預期您最終將不得不延長和修改這些貸款期限？

Well, once again, if they're on their business, we have two one year extensions available to borrowers. And if they're on their business, with the vast majority are on their business plan, cash flowing properties, we're more than happy to extend those loans with the -- if they want to wait for lower interest rates. Most of the exits of, if they're stabilized properties can exit through the GSEs. So that's the main refinance, or, five-year fixed.

好吧，再說一次，如果他們有事要辦，我們可以為借款人提供兩次為期一年的延期。如果他們有自己的業務，並且絕大多數都有自己的商業計劃和現金流動資產，我們非常樂意為他們提供貸款——如果他們願意等待更低的利率。大多數退出，如果是穩定的資產，都可以透過政府支持企業退出。這就是主要的再融資，或者說五年期固定利率。

It's really about their -- when you have a maturing, performing loan that's really about their, the sponsor's planning, are they waiting for an interest rate decrease or not, which is obviously on top of mind for everybody. The ones -- once again, we're working with these borrowers all the time, so there's that -- while there is a lot of, kind of a maturity wall, because a lot of these were done, a year pretty much into the pandemic when we restarted the business.

這實際上與他們有關——當你有一筆到期的、表現良好的貸款時，這實際上與他們、發起人的計劃有關，他們是否在等待利率下降，這顯然是每個人最關心的問題。那些 — — 再說一次，我們一直在與這些借款人合作，所以 — — 雖然存在很多期限限制，因為很多都是在疫情爆發一年後我們重新開始業務時完成的。

It's a wall that we understand really well and we've already identified. So you see the universe of -- it's just a handful of loans that are the substandard category who's already been identified if there's a real issue with the business plan. So we're working through it diligently. We don't expect there to be a lot of increases in substandard category. We think we've peaked, and we think that over the next few months we'll work through that maturity. And we'll also see a decline in substandard loans.

我們非常了解這堵牆，並且已經識別出來了。所以你可以看到，如果商業計劃真的有問題，那麼只有少數貸款屬於不合格類別，而且這些貸款已經被確定。因此我們正在努力解決這個問題。我們預計不合格類別的數量不會大幅增加。我們認為我們已經達到了頂峰，我們認為在接下來的幾個月裡我們將達到成熟度。我們還將看到次級貸款減少。

Okay, appreciate that. And since you mentioned the sort of peak in substandard, loans, I'm going back to sort of Q3 of last year where I think you made some similar comments around not expecting to see a significant increase in criticized REBL loans, but looking at the disclosure from the press release, it looks like non-accrual loans did pick up sequentially, as did special mention and substandard went down a little bit.

好的，非常感謝。既然您提到了次級貸款的峰值，我想回顧一下去年第三季度的情況，當時您也發表了類似的評論，預計受批評的 REBL 貸款不會大幅增加，但從新聞稿中披露的信息來看，非應計貸款確實環比有所回升，關注類和次級貸款也略有下降。

To help us understand kind of versus six months ago, when we were all together on the Q3 call, what's kind of driven the higher non-accrual, higher special mention loans versus your prior view around Q3 of being the prior peak.

為了幫助我們理解與六個月前相比的情況，當我們一起召開第三季電話會議時，是什麼原因導致了更高的非應計貸款和特別提及貸款，而不是像您之前認為的第三季是高峰。

Yeah, well, that -- well, the first thing is the Aubrey. We expected that to be closed off the books. There was a lot of momentum on that property and we were holding obviously a deposit on that property, so that was a surprise. So that's the first thing, so that would have rolled off and obviously substandard would have went down.

是的，嗯，那──嗯，第一件事就是奧布里。我們原本希望此事能夠不了了之。該房產的發展勢頭強勁，而且我們顯然持有該房產的押金，所以這讓我們感到很驚訝。所以這是第一件事，所以這將會消失，顯然不合格的產品將會下降。

The non-accrual is actually in a recap process, so we're hoping to get that off the books also next quarter. It took a little bit longer than we thought and as a matter of prudence, we put it in non-accrual until that recap was done. It's just taking longer than we had expected to reduce the substandards.

非應計項目實際上處於重新計提過程中，因此我們希望下個季度也能將其從帳簿上剔除。它花費的時間比我們想像的要長一點，而且出於謹慎考慮，我們將其置於非應計狀態，直到完成回顧為止。降低不合格品所花的時間比我們預期的要長。

It hasn't really increased the -- classified assets have gone down a touch, so we have a little bit of movement in other categories, but once again, we're working on it. It's a handful of loans. It's very manageable. We have a lot of visibility. We're working very proactively and when you have these situations, sometimes they just take a little bit longer, and to resolve. So we're working very hard to do that.

它實際上並沒有增加——機密資產有所下降，所以我們在其他類別中有一些變動，但再一次，我們正在努力。這是一筆數額不小的貸款。它非常易於管理。我們的知名度很高。我們非常積極主動地進行工作，當遇到這些情況時，有時只需要更長的時間就可以解決。所以我們正在努力實現這一點。

Okay, no, I appreciate that color and just last couple of questions, quick ones on the Aubrey. I noted the new appraisal that was done, $51 million as is and ballpark $59 million as stabilized. If you could help us reconcile those higher appraised values versus the prior one, which is something in the $40 million range, reconcile, why the appraisal went up in value.

好的，不，我很欣賞那種顏色，還有最後幾個問題，關於奧布里的快速問題。我注意到新的評估結果為：現狀價值 5,100 萬美元，穩定後約為 5,900 萬美元。如果您能幫我們核對這些較高的估價與先前的估價（大約在 4000 萬美元左右），請解釋為什麼估價會上漲。

When you've gone through a process now for the better part of 15 months where you haven't been able to find a buyer at a value even at the outstanding loan amount, meaning really what I'm asking is that market tests versus, funding a spreadsheet, putting a cap rate on NOI help us reconcile the appraisal versus market test process.

當你經歷了將近 15 個月的過程，卻仍無法找到一個買家，即使是未償還的貸款金額，這意味著我真正想問的是，市場測試與資助電子表格，對 NOI 設定上限率，可以幫助我們協調評估與市場測試過程。

Yeah, well, we had a buyer and they put actually money into the property, and put a sizable deposit and couldn't close the transaction, which is unfortunate. But during that time, we substantially changed, a lot of investment went into the property. It went from a 35% occupancy all the way up to the mid-60s, and obviously a lot of visibility on the rents that are realized.

是的，我們有一個買家，他們實際上在房產上投入了資金，並支付了相當多的訂金，但無法完成交易，這很不幸。但在那段時間裡，我們發生了巨大的變化，大量投資投入房地產。入住率從 35% 一路上升到 60% 左右，而且顯然租金的可觀性也得到了很大的提升。

So what people have done, investors have actually done, and you can actually go on the Aubrey Houston website and see it. The property is business as usual. It's in a very different state than it was 8 to 12 months ago. And so the appraisal is done totally on a third-party basis looking at comps and everything else.

所以人們做了什麼，投資者實際上做了什麼，你實際上可以訪問 Aubrey Houston 網站並查看。該物業照常營業。現在的情況與 8 到 12 個月前相比有很大不同。因此，評估完全是在第三方基礎上進行的，考察比較結果和其他所有因素。

So it went up from $48 million to, I think it was $51 million, so it went up $3 million based on those criteria and obviously a stabilized increased as the property is improved. So we don't obviously -- we're not the appraiser that's done on a third-party basis and so because of those metrics, the rents realize, the occupancy, the market conditions. This property is in a good neighborhood. It's obviously in the top, it's current state, it's one of our better properties with good amenities and everything, so that is the appraisers' value, that's not ours.

所以它從 4800 萬美元漲到了，我想是 5100 萬美元，所以根據這些標準它上漲了 300 萬美元，而且顯然隨著房產的改善而穩定增長。所以我們顯然不是基於第三方的評估師，因此根據這些指標，我們可以得出租金實現率、入住率和市場條件。該物業位於一個良好的街區。它顯然處於頂級水平，是目前的狀態，是我們較好的房產之一，擁有良好的設施和一切，所以這是評估師的價值，而不是我們的價值。

Okay, and then last question for me, please. You referenced the earnest money deposits, in the dispute with the buyer around who gets that money since the deal didn't close. From a financial statement point of view, how have you accounted for that $3 million? Have you kind of reflected a receivable, expecting to collect it, or is it somehow there's a reserve on it? If you can help us understand how you've accounted for that, please.

好的，請問我最後一個問題。您提到了定金，由於交易尚未完成，您與買家就誰能得到這筆錢發生了爭執。從財務報表的角度來看，您如何解釋這 300 萬美元？您是否已經反映了應收帳款，希望收回它，或者它上面是否有儲備金？如果您能幫助我們了解您是如何解釋這一點的，請告知。

Yeah, so it would be -- because of the appraisal at. It would be if we take that, if we get that deposit, they've objected to it, which is we don't think, we think we will get that deposit, but you can't object to it in these situations. So it will be income. It hasn't been recognized as income yet, because of -- it's been disputed, but we expect to get that and that'll be realized in income.

是的，所以這是——因為評估。如果我們接受這一點，如果我們得到那筆押金，他們會反對，也就是說我們認為我們不會得到那筆押金，但在這種情況下你不能反對。所以這將是收入。它還沒有被確認為收入，因為——它一直存在爭議，但我們預計會得到它，並且它將實現為收入。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Tim Switzer, KBW.

提姆‧斯威策，KBW。

Hey guys, thanks for letting me back in. I wanted to follow up on the question about the earnest money. How quickly should this earnest money litigation be resolved and like what is the legal process for that? Are you guys pretty confident you'll be retaining all the money, currently in escrow?

嘿夥計們，謝謝你們讓我回來。我想繼續追問有關定金的問題。這起定金訴訟應多快解決？其法律程序是怎樣的？你們是否有信心保留目前託管的所有資金？

We hope so. I mean, it was -- I think we think we have a clear. It's very clear. I mean, there was a deposit put down for the purchase of the property. The -- of course, you get a situation, you're going to get an objection, and so it's really up to the court to weigh the evidence, but we believe it's pretty clear cut that the deposit should come to us without a lot of delay. We're hoping to resolve it in next quarter.

我們希望如此。我的意思是——我認為我們已經清楚了。非常清楚。我的意思是，購買該房產需要支付訂金。當然，你會遇到這種情況，你會提出反對意見，所以這實際上取決於法庭來權衡證據，但我們認為，很顯然，押金應該毫不拖延地到達我們手中。我們希望在下個季度解決這個問題。

Okay, good to hear. And then outside of the REBL book, there's a little bit of an increase in NPAs. It looks like it was largely in the SBL book. Could you provide some color there we've seen across the industry for small business lending, there's been a little bit of credit migration.

好的，很高興聽到這個消息。然後在 REBL 書籍之外，NPA 有所增加。看起來它大部分都在 SBL 書中。您能否提供一些信息，我們看到整個小型企業貸款行業出現了一些信貸轉移。

Yeah, it was very little. It was one or one big one and -- it really wasn't a lot. We are, we aren't seeing a deterioration really in the portfolio. I mean, it's very low. And obviously in these cases there's many of these cases there's backstops, obviously through the SBA program, so we're not worried about that. There was a little pick up. The main focus really is -- we think we're in good shape on the SBA and the leasing portfolio, we had a little trucking, like everyone else did, issues in the leasing portfolio and that's kind of run off.

是的，很少。只有一個，或只有一個大，而且──真的不是很多。我們並沒有看到投資組合出現真正的惡化。我的意思是，它非常低。顯然，在這些情況下，許多情況下都有保障措施，顯然是透過 SBA 計劃提供的，所以我們並不擔心這一點。情況稍有好轉。主要的焦點實際上是——我們認為我們在 SBA 和租賃組合方面狀況良好，像其他人一樣，我們在卡車運輸方面也遇到了一些問題，這是一種流失。

We're not seeing the same thing anymore that's kind of we don't have that much left either in that space. So those portfolios seem to be in very good shape. The main focus has been getting those substandards down in the REBL portfolio, but also the maturity, what people see as a wall, but we see more as a very, a 12-month process of working with buyers to refinance or extend their loans. So it's -- we think we're in good shape in that area at this point.

我們再也看不見同樣的東西了，也就是說，在那個空間裡我們也沒有剩下那麼多東西了。因此這些投資組合看起來狀況非常好。主要重點是降低 REBL 投資組合中的不合格產品，同時還要提高期限，人們將其視為一道牆，但我們更多地將其視為一個為期 12 個月的過程，與買家合作以進行再融資或延長貸款期限。所以，我們認為目前我們在該領域的狀況良好。

Okay, and then if I get one more, you guys are bringing on a lot of volume with the new programs with Chime, new partners like Block, how much more capacity do you have for, new partners and new programs? There's obviously a lot of demand out there, so just wondering, if you guys are still able to, continue taking share.

好的，如果我再問一個問題，你們透過與 Chime 合作的新項目以及 Block 等新合作夥伴帶來了大量流量，對於新合作夥伴和新項目，你們還有多少容量？顯然，那裡有很多需求，所以我只是想知道，你們是否仍然能夠繼續佔據份額。

Yeah, well, the share is determined by who you have in your portfolio. Do you have the winners in the fintech space. A lot of this in in many of these areas, it's been decided. And so, and you see it by looking at commercials during any sporting event, you'll see these commercials many times our name will appear on the bottom.

是的，份額取決於你的投資組合中的成員。你們在金融科技領域有贏家嗎？在許多領域，很多事情都已經做出決定。因此，透過觀看任何體育賽事期間的廣告，您會多次看到我們的名字出現在這些廣告的底部。

We have built an ecosystem where we could have 5 times the volume that we have today. We have a process to take the deposits off the balance sheet or way of working with our partners where we have [claring] accounts. We've had this -- we've been building this since 2018, really focused on building this very, redoing the entire tech stack, redoing our infrastructure so that we can accommodate dramatically higher gross dollar volume

我們已經建立了一個生態系統，容量可能是現在的 5 倍。我們有一個流程，可以將存款從資產負債表中剔除，或與我們有[清算]帳戶的合作夥伴合作。我們已經擁有了這一點——我們從 2018 年開始就一直在構建它，真正專注於構建它，重新設計整個技術棧，重新設計我們的基礎設施，以便我們能夠適應大幅提高的總美元交易量

Now, to be honest, we never envisioned five years ago that would be this much opportunity and with the addition of Block, having the three largest -- really the three largest digital wallet neobanks, which dominate the marketplace with marketing spend and everything. And have other opportunities with those three that go beyond that, is really a big driver, right?

現在，說實話，五年前我們從未想過會有這麼大的機會，而且隨著 Block 的加入，我們擁有了三大數位錢包新銀行——實際上是三大數位錢包新銀行，它們透過行銷支出和一切手段主導著市場。而且，這三者還有其他機會，這確實是一個很大的推動力，對吧？

And -- but that's across our verticals. Do you have the winners in the fintech spaces? In many cases we do. And so they have this proportionate, opportunity out there because they have the ability to invest in their businesses with marketing spend and we believe we can support it. We could have easily multitudes of volume, and we've been preparing for this for the better part of at least five years, if not more years.

並且 — — 但這是跨越我們垂直領域的。你們在金融科技領域有贏家嗎？在很多情況下我們確實如此。因此，他們擁有這種相應的機會，因為他們有能力利用行銷支出投資於他們的業務，我們相信我們可以支持他們。我們可以輕鬆實現大量的交易量，並且我們已經為此準備了至少五年甚至更長。

Yeah, makes sense. I appreciate all the color. Thank you.

是的，有道理。我欣賞所有的色彩。謝謝。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will now hand the call back over to Damian Kozlowski for the closing remarks.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。現在我將把電話轉回給 Damian Kozlowski 做結束語。

Thank you everyone for joining us today. Operator, you can disconnect the call.

感謝大家今天的參與。接線員，您可以掛斷電話了。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining. You may all your lines.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們，會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。你可以使用你的所有台詞。