Bancorp Inc (TBBK) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Bancorp Inc Q4 and fiscal 2024 earnings conference call.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Bancorp Inc 第四季和 2024 財年財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded on Friday, January 31, 2025.

（操作員指示）此通話於 2025 年 1 月 31 日星期五錄製。

I would now like to introduce your speaker for today, Andres Viroslav.

現在我想介紹今天的演講者安德烈斯·維羅斯拉夫 (Andres Viroslav)。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝您，接線生。

Good morning and thank you for joining us today for The Bancorp's fourth quarter in fiscal 2024 financial results conference call.

早上好，感謝您今天參加 The Bancorp 2024 財年第四季財務業績電話會議。

On the call with me today are Damian Kozlowski, Chief Executive Officer; and Paul Frenkiel, our Chief Financial Officer.

今天與我一起通話的有執行長 Damian Kozlowski；以及我們的財務長 Paul Frenkiel。

This morning's call is being webcast on our website at www.thebancorp.com. There will be a replay of the call available via webcast on our website beginning at approximately 12:00 PM Eastern Time.

今天早上的電話會議將在我們的網站 www.thebancorp.com 上進行網路直播。這次通話的重播將於美國東部時間下午 12:00 左右開始透過網路直播在我們的網站上提供。

Today, the dial-in for the replay is 18886606264 with a passcode of 18739.

今天重播的撥入號碼為 18886606264，密碼為 18739。

Before I turn the call over to Damian, I would like to remind everyone that our comments and responses to questions reflects management's view as of today, January 31, 2025.

在我將電話轉給達米安之前，我想提醒大家，我們的評論和對問題的回答反映了管理層截至今天（2025 年 1 月 31 日）的觀點。

Yesterday, we issued our fourth-quarter earnings release and updated investor presentation.

昨天，我們發布了第四季度收益報告和更新的投資者介紹。

Both are available on our Investor Relations website.

兩份文件均可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。

We will make certain forward-looking statements on this call.

我們將在本次電話會議中做出一些前瞻性的陳述。

These statements are subject to the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Security Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the expectations and assumptions we mentioned today.

這些聲明受 1995 年《私人安全訴訟改革法》安全港條款的約束，並受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果與我們今天提到的預期和假設有重大差異。

These factors and uncertainties are discussed in our reports and filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告和文件中討論了這些因素和不確定性。

In addition, we will be referring to certain non-GAAP financial measures during this call.

此外，我們將在本次電話會議中參考某些非 GAAP 財務指標。

Additional details and reconciliations of GAAP to adjusted non-GAAP financial measures are in the earnings release and the investor presentation.

更多詳細資訊以及 GAAP 與調整後的非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表請參閱收益報告和投資者介紹。

Please note that The Bancorp undertakes no obligation to publicly release the results of any revisions to forward-looking statements which may be made to reflect events or circumstances after the date hereof or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events.

請注意，The Bancorp 不承擔公開發布前瞻性聲明任何修訂結果的義務，這些修訂可能反映本公告日期之後的事件或情況，或反映意外事件的發生。

Now, I would like to turn the call over to The Bancorp's Chief Executive Officer, Damian Kozlowski.

現在，我想將電話轉給 Bancorp 的執行長 Damian Kozlowski。

Damian?

達米安？

Thank you, Andres.

謝謝你，安德烈斯。

Good morning, everyone.

大家早安。

The Bancorp earned $1.50 a share for the fourth quarter and $4.29 for the full year 2024.

該合眾銀行第四季每股收益為 1.50 美元，2024 年全年每股收益為 4.29 美元。

The year-over-year EPS increase for the quarter was 41% and 23% for the full year.

本季每股收益較去年同期成長 41%，全年每股收益較去年同期成長 23%。

EPS was driven by higher total revenue year over year of 8% excluding $19.6 million of consumer fintech noninterest income correlated with related provision for credit losses.

每股盈餘的推動因素是總營收年增 8%，但不包括與相關信貸損失準備金相關的 1,960 萬美元消費者金融科技非利息收入。

The increase in EPS was led by the growth of total fintech fees, 16% year over year growth in year-end deposits, and a significant reduction of shares year over year of approximately 10% due to an enhanced 24 buyback of $250 million.

每股盈餘的成長主要得益於金融科技費用總額的成長、年末存款年增 16% 以及由於 2.5 億美元的增強型 24 回購導致股票價格同比大幅減少約 10%。

Fintech Solutions continues to build volume volumes and is the major driver of profitability growth from both fees and lower costs stable deposits.

金融科技解決方案持續擴大交易量，並成為費用和低成本穩定存款獲利成長的主要驅動力。

For full year '24, GDV grew 15% over the prior year.

24年全年，GDV比上年成長了15%。

However, the fourth quarter saw significant acceleration with GDV growth 19% year over year.

然而，第四季度出現了顯著加速，GDV 年增 19%。

Total fee growth was 18% for the year from all fintech activities which ballooned to 29% in the fourth quarter year over year driven by credit sponsorship and 78% growth in ACH, card, and other payment processing fees which includes rapid funds transfers.

全年所有金融科技活動的總費用成長率為 18%，第四季度年增至 29%，主要原因是信用贊助以及 ACH、信用卡和其他支付處理費用（包括快速資金轉帳）成長 78%。

The Fintech Solutions group continues to add new partnerships and expand existing programs.

金融科技解決方案集團繼續增加新的合作夥伴關係並擴展現有項目。

For example, credit sponsorship continues to grow significantly and we anticipate balances to approach $1 billion by the end of '25.

例如，信用贊助持續大幅成長，我們預計到 25 年底餘額將接近 10 億美元。

With the addition of new partnerships, fourth-quarter credit sponsorship fee grew 91% quarter over quarter with quarter end loan balances growing from $280 million to $454 million or 62%.

隨著新合作夥伴的加入，第四季信貸贊助費環比增長 91%，季末貸款餘額從 2.8 億美元增長至 4.54 億美元，增幅為 62%。

Year-end substandard loans in our [rebel] portfolio declined 14% compared to September 30, '24 due to a loan portfolio sale and the percentage further declined on January 2 with a loan repayment.

由於貸款組合出售，我們 [rebel] 組合中的年末次級貸款與 24 年 9 月 30 日相比下降了 14%，並且隨著 1 月 2 日的貸款償還，該比例進一步下降。

We expect this trend to continue with little to no loss.

我們預計這一趨勢將持續下去，且損失很小甚至為零。

We continue to maintain significant coverage on these loans with low leverage and expect further progress by the end of the first quarter.

我們將繼續對這些低槓桿貸款保持較高的覆蓋率，並預計第一季末將取得進一步進展。

Lastly, led by the broad-based and increasing growth in our Fintech Solutions group, we are affirming '25 guidance of $5.25 a share.

最後，在我們金融科技解決方案部門廣泛且不斷成長的帶動下，我們確認25年每股5.25美元的指導價格。

The guidance does not include $150 million of share buybacks for '25 or $37.5 million per quarter.

該預期並不包括25年1.5億美元的股票回購計畫或每季3,750萬美元的股票回購計畫。

Buybacks have been reduced $100 million in '25 from '24 to facilitate the repayment of $96 million of senior secured debt.

25 年的回購金額較 24 年減少了 1 億美元，以償還 9,600 萬美元的優先擔保債務。

Depending on prevailing rates, we may reissue $100 million or more of senior secured debt.

根據現行利率，我們可能會重新發行 1 億美元或更多的優先擔保債務。

Those proceeds would likely be used for further buybacks of shares.

這些收益可能會用於進一步回購股票。

I now turn the call over to my colleague and CFO, Paul Frenkiel.

現在我將電話轉給我的同事兼財務長 Paul Frenkiel。

Thank you, Damian.

謝謝你，達米安。

Based upon applicable accounting guidance, lending agreements related to consumer fintech loans had certain provisions accounted for as freestanding credit enhancements which resulted in the company recording a $19.6 million provision for credit losses and $19.6 million in noninterest income resulting in no impact to net income.

根據適用的會計指南，與消費者金融科技貸款相關的貸款協議中有某些條款被核算為獨立信用增進，這導致公司記錄了1,960 萬美元的信用損失準備金和1,960 萬美元的非利息收入，但對淨收入沒有影響。

In the fourth quarter, the company recognized a $1 million recovery from the trust's preferred security which was written off in the fourth quarter of 2023.

第四季度，該公司從該信託的優先證券中收回了 100 萬美元，該證券於 2023 年第四季度註銷。

One of the primary strategies of the company is to create a meaningful footprint in credit sponsorship lending after having begun to generate balances in the third quarter of 2024 we are proceeding prudently in our fintech credit strategies and currently are generating balances with lower potential loss exposure.

該公司的主要策略之一是在2024 年第三季開始產生餘額後，在信貸贊助貸款中創造有意義的足跡，我們正在審慎推進我們的金融科技信貸策略，目前正在產生潛在損失敞口較低的餘額。

We believe we will be able to originate loans with higher yields and or fees in the future.

我們相信，未來我們將能夠發放收益率更高和/或費用更高的貸款。

The majority of the increase in year-end loan balances compared to September 30, 2024, was comprised of consumer fintech loans.

與 2024 年 9 月 30 日相比，年末貸款餘額增加的大部分是消費者金融科技貸款。

The fourth-quarter net interest margin of 4.55% compared to 4.78% for third quarter 2024 and reflected $1.3 million of prior period interest reversal on rebel loans included in an $82 million year-end rebel loan sale.

第四季淨利差為 4.55%，而 2024 年第三季為 4.78%，反映了 8,200 萬美元年底叛軍貸款出售中包含的 130 萬美元前期叛軍貸款利息逆轉。

Average Fintech Solutions group deposits for the quarter increased 16% to $6.99 billion from $6 billion in fourth quarter 2023.

本季金融科技解決方案集團平均存款從 2023 年第四季的 60 億美元增加 16% 至 69.9 億美元。

Excluding the consumer fintech accounting offsets noted previously, the provision for credit losses on loans was $2 million in Q4 2024 compared to $4.1 million in Q4 2023.

不包括前面提到的消費者金融科技會計抵銷額，2024 年第四季的貸款信貸損失準備金為 200 萬美元，而 2023 年第四季為 410 萬美元。

Q4 2023 reflected $1 million resulting from growth in loan principle between the third and fourth quarters of 2023, against which CISA loss and qualitative percentages are applied.

2023 年第四季反映出 2023 年第三季至第四季之間貸款本金成長產生的 100 萬美元，以此計算 CISA 損失和定性百分比。

An additional $1 million resulted from increase in the [Sicily] economic factor on rate real estate bridge loans.

另外 100 萬美元的金額是由於[西西里]經濟因素導致的房地產過橋貸款利率上升。

The balance of the provision in 2000 and fourth quarter 2023 primarily reflected the impact of lease-related charges, approximately $900,000 of which were in long haul and local trucking.

2000 年和 2023 年第四季的準備金餘額主要反映了租賃相關費用的影響，其中約 90 萬美元用於長途和本地貨運。

The largest component of the 2024 fourth quarter provision also reflected the impact of the trucking and related categories.

2024 年第四季撥備的最大部分也反映了卡車運輸和相關類別的影響。

Total principal exposure in those trucking categories was approximately $32 million at December 31, 2024.

截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日，這些卡車運輸類別的總本金敞口約為 3,200 萬美元。

While the macroeconomic environment has challenged the multifamily bridge space.

而宏觀經濟環境對多戶橋樑空間也提出了挑戰。

The stability of the of the Bancorp's rehabilitation bridge loan portfolio is evidenced by the estimated values of the underlying collateral.

Bancorp 康復過橋貸款組合的穩定性由基礎抵押品的估計價值證明。

The $2.1 billion apartment bridge lending portfolio has a weighted average origination date as is LTV of 70% based on 30 third-party appraisals.

根據 30 個第三方評估，21 億美元的公寓過橋貸款組合的加權平均發起日期為 70%，LTV 為 70%。

Further, the weighted average origination date as stabilized LTV which measures the estimated value of the apartments after the rehabilitation is complete, may provide even greater protection from losses.

此外，加權平均發起日期作為穩定的 LTV，衡量修復完成後公寓的估計價值，可以提供更大的損失保護。

Significantly outstanding modified rebel loans have respective as is and as stabilized weighted average LTVS of 73% and 63% excluding the consumer fintech.

大量未償還的修改後叛軍貸款的現狀和穩定加權平均 LTVS 分別為 73% 和 63%（不包括消費者金融科技）。

Accounting assets noted previously noninterest income for Q4 2024 was $34.7 million which was 28% higher than Q4 2023 prepaid debit card, ACH, and other payment fees increased 16%.

先前提到的會計資產 2024 年第四季的非利息收入為 3,470 萬美元，比 2023 年第四季的預付借記卡、ACH 和其他支付費用增加 16% 高出 28%。

Accounting for the majority of the increase, those increases reflected both higher rapid funds transfer income and higher prepaid and debit program sponsorship income driven by both new client relationships, achieving scale and the continued organic growth of longstanding client relationships.

這些增長佔了大部分，反映了快速資金轉帳收入的增加以及預付和借記計劃贊助收入的增加，這得益於新客戶關係的推動，實現了規模化，以及長期客戶關係的持續有機增長。

The increase in noninterest income also reflected consumer fintech fees of $3 million reflecting the company's third quarter, 2024 entry into credit sponsorship.

非利息收入的增加也反映了 300 萬美元的消費者金融科技費用，這反映了該公司於 2024 年第三季進入信貸贊助領域。

As previously noted, we believe we will be able to originate loans with higher yields and or fees in the future.

如前所述，我們相信未來我們將能夠發放收益率更高和/或費用更高的貸款。

Noninterest expense for Q4 2024 was $51.8 million, which was 14% higher than Q4 2023.

2024 年第四季的非利息支出為 5,180 萬美元，比 2023 年第四季高出 14%。

The increase included a 22% increase in salaries and benefits which reflected higher staffing costs related to payments related to financial crime.

此次成長包括薪資和福利增加22%，這反映了與金融犯罪相關付款相關的人員成本增加。

It and incentive compensation expense including stock compensation expense.

它和激勵薪酬費用包括股票薪酬費用。

In summary, The Bancorp's balance sheet has a risk profile enhanced by the special nature of the collateral supporting its loan niches and related underwriting.

綜上所述，由於支持該合眾銀行貸款業務和相關承保的抵押品的特殊性質，該合眾銀行資產負債表的風險狀況有所增強。

Those loan niches have contributed to increased earnings levels even during periods in which markets have experienced various economic stresses.

即使在市場經歷各種經濟壓力的時期，這些貸款業務也有助於提高獲利水準。

Real estate bridge lending is comprised of workhouse housing, workforce housing, which we consider to be working-class apartments at more affordable rental rates.

房地產過橋貸款包括濟貧院住房、勞動力住房，我們認為這些是租金較實惠的勞工階級公寓。

In selected states.

在選定的狀態下。

We believe that our underwriting requirements provide significant protection against loss as supported by LTV ratios based on third party appraisals.

我們相信，我們的承保要求能夠提供顯著的損失保護，這一點有基於第三方評估的 LTV 比率所支持。

Further SBLOC and IBLOC loans are respectively collateralized by marketable securities and the cash value of life insurance, while SBA loans are either SBA 7(a) loans that come with significant government guarantees or 504 loans that are made at 50% to 60% LTVS.

此外，SBLOC 和 IBLOC 貸款分別由有價證券和人壽保險的現金價值作為抵押，而 SBA 貸款則是帶有大量政府擔保的 SBA 7(a) 貸款或以 50% 至 60% LTVS 發放的 504 貸款。

Additional details regarding our loan portfolio are included in the related tables in our press release as are the earnings contributions of our payments businesses, which further enhances our risk profile.

我們新聞稿中的相關表格中包含了有關我們的貸款組合的更多詳細信息，以及我們的支付業務的盈利貢獻，這進一步增強了我們的風險狀況。

The risk profile inherent in the company's loan portfolios, payments, funding sources, and earnings levels may present opportunities to further increase shareholder value while still prudently maintaining capital levels.

公司貸款組合、付款、資金來源和盈利水平固有的風險狀況可能為進一步提高股東價值同時仍審慎地保持資本水平提供機會。

Such opportunities include stock repurchases which are planned in 2025.

這些機會包括計劃於 2025 年進行的股票回購。

I will now turn the call back to Damian.

我現在將電話轉回給達米安。

Thank you, Paul.

謝謝你，保羅。

Operator, please open the line for questions.

接線員，請打開電話線以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Frank Schiraldi, Piper Sandler.

（操作員指示）Frank Schiraldi、Piper Sandler。

Good morning.

早安.

Just on the acceleration of GDV, Damian, in the quarter.

Damian，本季 GDV 加速成長。

Curious if you can -- what you're seeing so far in early 2025.

我很好奇，如果你可以的話——你在 2025 年初目前看到了什麼。

Thoughts on 2025 in terms of year-over-year growth in GDV?

您認為 2025 年 GDV 年成長情況如何？

And then how do we think about pickup in terms of the fee income?

那麼，從費用收入的角度來看，我們該如何看待取貨呢？

I know, obviously, the consumer credit stuff is driving some decent fee income growth.

我知道，顯然消費信貸正在推動費用收入的可觀成長。

But if I just think about -- if we just think about the deposit-related kind of fees, what is the pickup for a given 15% or 20% GDV growth?

但是，如果我只是考慮一下——如果我們只考慮與存款相關的費用，那麼給定的 15% 或 20% 的 GDV 成長率會帶來什麼結果？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

So, the first part of it, the GDV has continued to be accelerated.

因此，第一部分，GDV 繼續加速成長。

So in January, we're still seeing 19%, 20% GDV growth.

因此在一月份，我們仍然看到19%至20%的GDV成長。

So that is -- I was kind of a liar last year.

所以也就是說──去年我有點說謊了。

I said we would be above trend on GDV and we just, we just were a little too late on implementations to get the real kick at the end, but you saw it in the fourth quarter.

我說過，我們的 GDV 將高於趨勢，只是我們的實施有點晚了，無法在最後獲得真正的推動力，但您在第四季度看到了這一點。

So GDV is very strong.

所以 GDV 非常強大。

That's number one.

這是第一點。

Number two is the fee.

第二是費用。

What's happening is that we've worked very hard to expand the product set as you know, rapid funds.

如你所知，我們正在努力擴大產品組合，也就是快速資金。

We were an early adopter and now with credit sponsorship, we're expanding the programs with our primary client, but then with new clients.

我們是早期採用者，現在透過信用贊助，我們正在向主要客戶擴展該計劃，然後拓展至新客戶。

So it's kind of building a layer cake now.

所以現在就像是在建造一個千層蛋糕。

So you're getting kind of fees on top of fees from our primary relationship.

因此，除了我們的主要合作夥伴收取的費用之外，您還會獲得其他費用。

So where we were in the fourth quarter, if you look over the year over year, a lot of that is run rate business and then you're going to have the additional balances, the balances on the credit sponsorship could be over a billion dollars for this year.

因此，如果你回顧去年同期，你會發現我們在第四季度的情況，其中許多都是運行率業務，然後你會有額外的餘額，今年信用贊助的餘額可能超過 10 億美元。

So you're going to get a fee growth in the, at least in the high 20s for if you look at all the fees, right?

因此，如果考慮所有費用，您會發現費用至少會增加 20% 以上，對嗎？

So if you look at the ach the base fees that we have, which are less determinative with GDV because the relationships have expanded so much and have additional fee sources and they're kind of all additive to each other.

因此，如果您查看我們的基本費用，您會發現這些費用對於 GDV 來說不那麼具有決定性，因為關係已經擴展了很多，並且有額外的費用來源，而且它們都是相互附加的。

So if you look at the whole fee structure, it's going to be at least in the high 20s if you include the credit sponsorship fees.

因此，如果你看一下整個費用結構，如果包括信用贊助費，費用至少會達到 20 多美元。

And if you take that out, you're still with -- at our GDV growth now, you're in the high teens if you have the ACH and related fees and the base card fees.

如果你把它拿出來，你仍然會——以我們現在的 GDV 成長來看，如果你有 ACH 和相關費用以及基本卡費用，你的 GDV 成長率會處於十幾歲左右。

So it's very strong historically and we haven't seen this type of growth in GDV and well, obviously, ever in fee growth, but we haven't seen this type of volume growth since the pandemic with massive government stimulus.

因此，從歷史上看，它的表現非常強勁，我們從未見過GDV 出現這種類型的增長，顯然，費用也從未出現過這種類型的增長，但自疫情爆發並實施大規模政府刺激措施以來，我們還沒有見過這種類型的交易量成長。

So that was one-time items.

這些都是一次性物品。

Now, it's based on diversity of product and also on the new larger programs that we put on our platform.

現在，它基於產品的多樣性以及我們在平台上推出的更​​大的新程式。

Okay.

好的。

All right, great.

好的，太好了。

That's great color.

顏色真棒。

And then just on that interest income on the NIM, obviously you have the interest reversal in the quarter.

然後，僅就 NIM 的利息收入而言，顯然本季的利息發生了逆轉。

But then you also have these these significantly higher consumer balances that seem to be earning more on the fee side than maybe in terms of yield.

但是，你也會發現這些消費者餘額明顯較高，他們在費用方面的收入似乎比在收益方面的收入還要多。

So I'm just curious if you can talk through -- is that kind of the name of the game?

所以我只是好奇您是否可以講講——這就是遊戲的名稱嗎？

Can we continue to see maybe some margin compression and more pickup on fee income or what are your thoughts on margin 2025?

我們是否會繼續看到利潤率受到壓縮以及費用收入進一步增加，或者您對 2025 年的利潤率有何看法？

So it near term, we have -- as you can see, we have a very strong growth in deposits which adds obviously to our cash balances.

因此，就短期而言，正如您所看到的，我們的存款成長非常強勁，這顯然增加了我們的現金餘額。

However, what's going to happen in the near term?

然而，近期會發生什麼事？

It's depending on implementation of, of which programs, lending programs and credit sponsorship primarily because what happens is some of these products are only fees like for example, the my pay products, right?

這主要取決於哪些計劃、貸款計劃和信用贊助的實施，因為其中一些產品只是費用，例如我的付費產品，對嗎？

We do have additional liquidity because they're funded with a demand deposit.

我們確實有額外的流動資金，因為它們是由活期存款資助的。

But the result for us is all fees, even though you kind of on an accounting basis, it's a fee.

但對我們來說，結果就是全是費用，即使從會計角度來說，這也是一項費用。

However, that's our payment for that product in the near term.

但這是我們近期為該產品支付的款項。

There might be some animate erosion even though we're getting more profitable.

儘管我們的利潤越來越高，但可能還是會出現一些明顯的侵蝕。

However, that'll turn around substantially as new programs that are interested and not primarily feeds get implemented.

然而，隨著感興趣的新計劃（而不是主要以提要為主）的實施，這種情況將發生重大轉變。

And those are on our platform now with our client.

這些現在都在我們平台上，與我們的客戶分享。

So you'll see -- you might see a depression because it's in, it's in the credit sponsorship fee line, but then it will reverse and the fees will slow down and then the noninterest the interest income will increase.

所以你會看到——你可能會看到一個蕭條，因為它在，它在信用贊助費用線，但隨後它會逆轉，費用將放緩，然後非利息利息收入將增加。

But the result is basically the same.

但結果基本上是一樣的。

It's just in the wrong category, right?

它只是屬於錯誤的類別，對嗎？

You're seeing a fee that is really the payment would be traditionally it's not NMM but it, but we're calculating the economic benefit of having the program.

您看到的費用實際上是傳統上支付的費用，它不是 NMM，而是我們正在計算該計劃的經濟效益。

Sure, no understood.

當然，不明白。

And then just lastly, I noticed in the footnote in the release, you mentioned you had two smaller nonaccruals after the quarter end of, I think under just under $10 million.

最後，我注意到，在新聞稿的腳註中，您提到在季度末之後有兩筆較小的未計項目，我認為略低於 1000 萬美元。

I believe that's in the rebel book.

我相信那是在反叛者的書中。

Can you just talk about those because I didn't see any increase in delinquency in the quarter and also just your confidence in criticized classified?

您能談談這些嗎？

Sounds like you talked about it getting near peak or maybe peaking and obviously you had the loan sales and, and balances were down, but just wondering your confidence going forward and those have reaching peak level and do you need or expect to continue to have additional loan sales to kind of offset what otherwise would be inflows into those categories?

聽起來你好像說過它已經接近峰值或可能達到峰值，顯然你的貸款銷售額和餘額都在下降，但只是想知道你對未來的信心，這些已經達到峰值水平，你是否需要或期望繼續有額外的貸款銷售是否可以抵消這些類別的資金流入？

Yeah, so we think we're over the peak now, right?

是的，所以我們認為我們現在已經過了巔峰，對嗎？

So there might be a couple of modifications, a couple of substandard loans, but we can see a significant decrease over the next quarter, potentially or two quarters.

因此，可能會有一些修改，一些不合格的貸款，但我們可以看到下一季、可能一兩個季度內會出現顯著下降。

So we have the [Aubrey] sale but we have other -- there may be additional loan sales and we know where we are with.

因此，我們有 [Aubrey] 銷售，但我們還有其他 - 可能還有額外的貸款銷售，我們知道我們處於什麼位置。

We, we're closely tracking all the all those loans in.

我們正在密切跟踪所有這些貸款。

Additionally, remember we had a third-party review of the portfolio.

此外，請記住我們對投資組合進行了第三方審查。

So we're very confident now.

所以我們現在非常有信心。

I think that we're on the other side of the peak and that they should -- we should show real good progress this quarter and going into the next quarter.

我認為我們已經到達了頂峰的另一端，我們應該在本季度以及下個季度取得真正的良好進展。

Yes.

是的。

And on the $10 million, it's a developing situation where we think we have an issue with that amount of loans.

關於 1000 萬美元的問題，情況正在發展中，我們認為這筆貸款存在問題。

And as Damian said, we have -- we all believe that we've reached the peak we have the Aubrey sale coming up and we have other things and other loan sales are in fact possible.

正如達米安所說，我們都相信我們已經達到了頂峰，我們即將進行奧布里的銷售，我們還有其他事情，其他貸款銷售實際上是可能的。

So it's not going to be a perfect reduce, reduce, reduce.

因此，這不會是一個完美的減少、減少、再減少。

You may have a small loan like the $10 million that might become an issue.

您可能有 1000 萬美元這樣的小額貸款，這可能會成為一個問題。

But again, even with that, as with all the modified loans, we have very strong protection against loss in the LTVs and we don't expect -- number one, we don't expect net increases in the substandards and in those types of loans with issues they're going down, it should consistently go down.

但即便如此，與所有修改後的貸款一樣，我們對貸款價值比的損失有非常強的保護，我們預計——第一，我們預計次級貸款和這類貸款不會出現淨增長。貸款正在減少，它應該會持續下降。

We think they're going to go down in the first quarter.

我們認為第一季它們將會下降。

But in fairness to the presentation, we did disclose that.

但公平地說，我們確實披露了這一點。

Okay.

好的。

So just on those two loans, I mean, at this point, I guess there's no additional color.

所以就這兩筆貸款而言，我的意思是，目前為止，我想沒有額外的細節。

They're not cool.

他們一點也不酷。

So I guess we assume well, collateralized, but potentially.

因此我想我們假設良好，有抵押，但有潛力。

We really can't, it's a developing thing.

我們確實不能，這是一個正在發展中的事情。

We'll fully disclose it when we can and we think we there will be no loss.

當我們能夠做到時，我們會充分揭露這一點，並且我們認為不會有任何損失。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tim Switzer, KBW.

提姆‧斯威策，KBW。

Hey, good morning.

嘿，早安。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Good morning, Tim.

早安，提姆。

My first question is on some of the disclosures around the loan agreements with the consumer fintech loans where you're.

我的第一個問題是關於您所在的消費者金融科技貸款的貸款協議的一些披露。

I guess being reimbursed for the credit provision.

我猜是要償還信用準備金。

Can you give us some -- I know you can't go into specific customers but can you go into some details broadly about how those contracts are written and do you get the collateral if they are not able to cover the losses?

您能否給我們一些——我知道您不能透露具體的客戶，但您能否大致介紹一下這些合約是如何簽訂的，如果他們無法彌補損失，您會得到抵押品嗎？

And do you provide -- do they provide the cash for the losses upfront before they occur or is it as they occur?

你們是否提供－他們是否在損失發生之前預先提供現金，還是在損失發生時提供現金？

Any details you can provide on that would be really helpful.

您提供的任何詳細資訊都將非常有幫助。

Yes, so we do -- we have an offset.

是的，我們確實有——我們有一個抵消。

So there, it's really backed up by the client on these types of loans that we're currently doing.

所以，我們目前正在進行的這類貸款確實得到了客戶的支持。

So this the way it works.

這就是它的工作方式。

You've got to remember when we're working with a client, these large clients, we're holding the entire profitability of the bank at us.

你必須記住，當我們與客戶，這些大客戶合作時，我們掌握著銀行的全部獲利能力。

We get everything first.

我們先得到一切。

So it's interchange whatever right, we also they also post collateral for these loans on additional additionally.

因此，無論什麼權利，我們都會交換，他們也會為這些貸款提供額外的抵押品。

So we have the offset which far outweighs what would be in the loss category would be the interchange for these large programs.

因此，我們的抵銷額遠超過損失類別的抵銷額，也就是這些大型專案的交換額。

That's first plus we have the backstop plus we have, they post collateral.

這是首先，另外我們有後盾，另外我們還有他們提供抵押品。

So it's very, very low, it's nothing zero but it's as close to zero that you can on the riskiness of the loans.

所以它非常非常低，不是零，但貸款風險盡可能接近零。

And as far as your other question the contract and how the accounting relates, they're really technical accounting guidance that we're looking at those agreements.

至於您提到的另一個問題，即合約與會計之間的關係，它們實際上是我們正在研究的這些協議的技術會計指導。

And we obviously would rather not have like a somewhat of a distortion by showing a big number in a provision and a big number that's equal to that in the noninterest income.

顯然，我們不希望出現某種扭曲，即在撥備中顯示一個很大的數字，並在非利息收入中顯示一個很大的數字。

So we're looking at those technical requirements and we don't anticipate that it will be an issue going forward if we can make those minor tweaks to the agreement.

因此，我們正在研究這些技術要求，如果我們能夠對協議進行這些微調，我們預計這不會成為未來的問題。

Okay.

好的。

And just to be clear, so the collateral you have on your loans, you've received more than the $19.6 million you received.

需要明確的是，您收到的貸款抵押品已超過 1,960 萬美元。

That's just when it gets recognized through the income statement.

那隻是透過損益表確認的時候。

When exactly do you receive the collateral?

您具體什麼時候收到抵押品？

And like, is it equivalent to like what you put up on the reserve side or is it a little bit higher?

它是否與您在儲備方面投入的金額相當，或者是否略高一些？

You could really get into the technicalities, like you're suggesting with t accounts and when we get the money, the bottom line, as Damian had said in these cases.

您可以真正深入了解技術細節，就像您建議的 T 帳戶一樣，當我們拿到錢時，底線就是這樣，正如達米安在這些案例中所說的那樣。

The bank is fully protected to the extent that it can be like the dollars are really there.

銀行得到了充分的保護，就像美元真的在那裡一樣。

So there's really no significant issues.

因此實際上沒有什麼重大問題。

Yeah.

是的。

Remember, we're holding all the interchange prior and we're a very small part of it.

請記住，我們之前負責所有的交換，而我們只是其中很小的一部分。

So we kind of dole it out to everybody else.

因此，我們將其分配給其他人。

That's the first part of it.

這是第一部分。

That is a huge number, right?

這是一個巨大的數字，對吧？

This is very small compared to that.

和那個相比，這個非常小。

However, we do also have collateral but it's, it's a 1 to 1 offset when it goes over a certain amount of time.

但是，我們確實也有抵押品，但是當超過一定時間時，就會以 1 比 1 的比例抵消。

I'm not going to disclose, but it's a couple of we have an exact day when that day happens, then that is funded and that offset happens.

我不會透露，但我們有一個確切的日期，當那一天發生時，就會有資金支持，然後就會發生抵消。

So if it goes a certain amount of time that, that loan isn't paid back.

所以如果過了一段時間，貸款就還不回來了。

Remember, these are very quick loans, right?

請記住，這些都是非常快速的貸款，對嗎？

So if it isn't paid back then the offset occurs.

因此，如果沒有償還，則會發生抵消。

Okay.

好的。

Yeah.

是的。

No, that helps a lot.

不，這很有幫助。

And so is it fair to say you guys give up the interest income but still receive all the interchange for this arrangement?

那麼，這樣說來，你們放棄了利息收入，但仍然獲得了所有的交換費，這公平嗎？

Not necessarily like it varies on different credit products.

不一定，就像不同的信用產品。

We price each credit product and each relationship differently.

我們對每種信用產品和每種關係的定價都不同。

So you really have to -- and at this point with the mix, we're not certain, really, ultimately what the mix is going to be.

所以你真的必須——而在目前的混合階段，我們真的不確定最終的混合會是什麼樣子。

But as I said in my presentation, ultimately, we expect we'll do other programs with higher yields and more of the income.

但正如我在演講中所說，最終我們期望開展其他收益更高、收入更多的項目。

Yes.

是的。

So the way we implemented the program was kind of secured.

因此我們實施該計劃的方式是比較安全的。

We have a credit builder program which is secured credit card.

我們有一個信用建設計劃，它是有擔保的信用卡。

We have SpotMe, which is a kind of a over a fully secured overdraft that and this in my pay is kind of a free loan.

我們有 SpotMe，這是一種完全有擔保的透支，對我來說這是一種免費貸款。

If you remember, this is the highest growing one so far is a free loan to the client.

如果你還記得的話，這是迄今為止成長最高的一項，是向客戶提供的免費貸款。

And the only reason that the client pays anything for that loan is because they want it immediately.

客戶支付這筆貸款的唯一原因是他們想立即獲得它。

And that's the source of fees for our partner and for us, right?

這就是我們和合作夥伴的費用來源，對嗎？

And with that comes a deposit at zero.

隨之而來的是零押金。

So the interest income that would have been charged is actually being generated in a fee for a rapid advance right.

因此，原本要收取的利息收入實際上是透過快速預付權費用產生的。

So, but the way we implemented these programs, because we're trying to make sure that we build it in the right way is to start with those type of programs with a primary client like we did.

所以，但是我們實作這些程式的方式，因為我們試圖確保我們以正確的方式建構它，是從像我們一樣具有主要客戶端的這些類型的程式開始。

But then add the interest, more complicated products and then expand it to other programs which is we're in the process.

但隨後增加興趣和更複雜的產品，然後將其擴展到其他程序，這就是我們正在進行的過程。

So you'll see those balances like you saw in the fourth quarter rapidly grow and then you'll see rapid product diversification.

因此，您會看到像第四季度那樣的餘額快速增長，然後您會看到產品快速多樣化。

And so some will be fee based, but in the future, it will be very diversified, but there'll be a lot more interest income at much higher rates.

因此，有些將以費用為基礎，但在未來，它將非常多樣化，但會以更高的利率獲得更多的利息收入。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

And in the future as you continue to diversify your products, do you plan to for the loan agreement to include you being reimbursed for the credit losses or are you going to do any kind of arrangement that makes economical?

將來，隨著你們繼續實現產品多樣化，你們是否有計劃在貸款協議中加入信用損失補償條款，或者你們是否會採取任何經濟的安排？

Some will, right?

有些人會，對吧？

So if they're kind of renting our balance sheet like in that particular program, it'll be fees and it probably won't have the interest component, there will be programs like that, but as into the future, there will be programs where say they're all -- they could be much higher interest rates, right?

因此，如果他們像在那個特定計劃中那樣租用我們的資產負債表，那將是費用，可能不會有利息部分，會有這樣的計劃，但將來會有計劃他們都說——他們的利率可能會高很多，對嗎？

And we would hold that many times they'll be securitized within 3 or 30 days.

我們認為，很多時候它們會在 3 到 30 天內實現證券化。

So that will be very fee based with a lot of velocity, right?

所以這將以費用為基礎，並且速度很快，對嗎？

So it will be small balances but a lot of loans will be going through the balance sheet which will generate both spread but fee income.

因此，餘額會很小，但許多貸款將通過資產負債表，這將產生利差和費用收入。

But then we will also hold a very diversified set in the future of maybe 10 programs.

但我們將來也會舉辦非常多元化的節目，大概有 10 個節目。

Very small strips.

非常小的條帶。

There'll be small balances, but they could add up to $1 billion dollars.

會有小額餘額，但總計可達 10 億美元。

But it would be very diversified.

但它會非常多樣化。

We'd get a lot of interest income.

我們會獲得很多利息收入。

In that case, they would not be backed up by the partner.

在這種情況下，他們將不會得到合作夥伴的支持。

But then those would be extremely profitable because you get much, much higher.

但這些將會非常有利可圖，因為你可以獲得更高的利潤。

It's a small strip, they're very quick terminating loans.

這是一條小路，他們終止貸款的速度非常快。

We hold a small strip and they're very diversified.

我們佔據一小片區域，而且種類繁多。

So those would be, that's where we want to go at the end of the day to have a portfolio of multiple programs.

所以，這些就是我們最終想要去的地方，擁有多個專案的投資組合。

Very small, very small.

非常小，非常小。

Because if you think about it, if you have $1 billion of those over 10 programs, that is immensely profitable because the velocity on those loans are so quick that you get -- you get not only high interest rates, but you also get high fees and then the majority of it is securitized outside and that generates a fee additionally.

因為如果你仔細想想，如果你在 10 個項目中獲得了 10 億美元的貸款，那麼利潤將非常可觀，因為這些貸款的利率非常快，你不僅可以獲得高額利息，還可以獲得高額費用然後其中的大部分在外面證券化，並產生額外的費用。

So those loans are incredibly profitable and it makes your balance sheet much larger than it is, for example, on the, on the $454 million, right?

所以這些貸款的利潤非常可觀，它使你的資產負債表比現在大得多，例如，達到 4.54 億美元，對嗎？

So if you look at that $454 million even in our current programs that we have, that $454 million really represented about $2 billion of loans that actually went through the system and were repaid.

因此，如果您看一下我們目前的計劃中的 4.54 億美元，這 4.54 億美元實際上代表了實際通過系統並得到償還的約 20 億美元的貸款。

And the $19 million being part of the loss of people who didn't pay it back.

這 1,900 萬美元是那些未能償還貸款的人造成的損失的一部分。

But that is far outweighed by the fees that were generated for people wanting the money early.

但這遠遠超過了那些想提前拿到錢的人所支付的費用。

That $19 million is -- that hasn't been disclosed.

這 1900 萬美元尚未披露。

You see our part of it, you don't see our partner's part of it.

你看到了我們的部分，卻看不到我們合作夥伴的部分。

But that loss is far outweighed by the fees generated.

但這些損失遠遠超過了所產生的費用。

Well, yeah, it seems like a good product to get some strong risk-adjusted returns here, if I can switch topics just a little bit here.

嗯，是的，這似乎是一個可以獲得強勁風險調整回報的好產品，如果我可以在這裡稍微轉換主題的話。

The really strong deposit growth and influx of cash balances was that related at all to the collateral that you received related to these loans and then, separately, do you plan to deploy that or move the balance sheet lower?

真正強勁的存款成長和現金餘額的流入是否與您收到的與這些貸款相關的抵押品有關，然後，您是否計劃單獨部署這些抵押品或降低資產負債表？

Just looking for some color there.

只是想在那裡尋找一些顏色。

Thank you.

謝謝。

No, that's not really the driver.

不，那不是真正的驅動因素。

So the volume is the driver on that one.

因此，音量是其驅動因素。

Divine is the driver.

神聖的是司機。

There is some because the secured credit card obviously is secured with deposits.

有，因為擔保信用卡顯然是用存款擔保的。

You do have some of that in the growth.

在成長過程中你確實會遇到一些這樣的情況。

But the GDV number is really the main driver.

但總發展價值 (GDV) 數字才是真正的主要驅動因素。

It is the main driver and we also have -- you've got to remember, we also have other temporary flow businesses like B2B payments and stuff that are growing very quickly.

這是主要的驅動力，而且我們還有——你必須記住，我們還有其他臨時流業務，例如 B2B 支付等，這些業務正在快速成長。

That money goes through the bank and then that bank is here temporarily.

這些錢經過銀行，然後銀行就暫時在這裡。

So it's really a volume driven that that's the deposit number.

因此，這實際上是由存款數量決定的。

If you look at our GDV growth, it was 15%, right?

如果你看看我們的 GDV 成長率，它是 15%，對嗎？

And the deposit growth was 16%.

存款成長16%。

That tells you that right there.

這就已經告訴你了。

So the extra 1% is what probably the credit builder part of it.

因此，額外的 1% 可能是其中的信用建設部分。

Got you.

明白了。

Okay.

好的。

I appreciate all the color, guys.

大家，我很欣賞你們所有的顏色。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Joe Yanchunis, Raymond James.

喬揚丘尼斯、雷蒙德詹姆斯。

Good morning.

早安.

Hey, how are you?

嘿，你怎麼樣？

Good morning.

早安.

I'm doing well.

我很好。

I was hoping I could discuss your credit enhanced program a bit more.

我希望我可以進一步討論一下您的信用增進計劃。

Do you have any internal concentration limits on the size of the program?

您對程式的規模有任何內部集中限制嗎？

And should we think about the bulk of the near-term ramp coming from new partners or from existing partners adopting the program?

我們是否應該考慮近期的大部分成長來自新合作夥伴還是來自採用該計劃的現有合作夥伴？

Yes, we do.

是的，我們知道。

We have a conservative depending on the programs we have -- we go through a process and we basically set a limit and I think they would be there.

根據我們的計劃，我們有一個保守派——我們經歷一個過程，我們基本上設定了一個限制，我認為他們會在那裡。

There will be a use of our balance sheet and it depends on the types of products.

我們的資產負債表將會有所用途，這取決於產品的類型。

But when we do this, we will set a limit and we, even though this is kind of fully secured at this time, we have set a limit on the balance sheet that we think is conservative and we go through a risk management process.

但是當我們這樣做時，我們會設定一個限額，儘管此時這已經是完全有保障的，但我們在資產負債表上設定了一個我們認為保守的限額，並且我們會經歷一個風險管理流程。

And the rampup is, we really do see clear vision to $1 billion-plus this year.

而且我們確實看到了今年達到 10 億美元以上的清晰願景。

Most of that will come from our current partner, but we'll be ramping up other programs.

其中大部分將來自我們目前的合作夥伴，但我們將加強其他計劃。

And so it's very possible.

所以這是非常有可能的。

And if you recall APEX 2030, we had a $3 billion kind of target for 2030.

如果你還記得 APEX 2030，我們為 2030 年設定的目標是 30 億美元。

It's very possible that that $3 billion will be reached at the end of '26.

到26年底，這個數字很有可能達到30億美元。

Our perspective has changed on the people who want to work with us and build out these programs.

我們對那些想與我們合作並建立這些項目的人們的看法已經改變了。

But you'll see -- like we said before, you'll see that lower risks business is kind of the first adoption and then you'll see the diversification securitization and you also see higher rate loans in a very diversified manner being put on the balance sheet.

但你會看到——就像我們之前說過的，你會看到低風險業務是第一種採用，然後你會看到多元化證券化，你還會看到以非常多樣化的方式提供高利率貸款資產負債表。

If you think about it just conceptually, if we had $3 billion in a couple of years, probably up to $2 billion would be this very, very low-risk business.

如果你從概念上考慮，如果我們在幾年內獲得 30 億美元，那麼可能高達 20 億美元的業務風險非常非常低。

And then you'd have the diversified strips of business for maybe a billion the balance sheet.

然後你的業務就會多元化，資產負債表上可能有十億美元。

And that probably wouldn't grow substantially over the next couple of years.

而且未來幾年，這一數字可能不會大幅成長。

But we would be working with more and more partners and there would probably be more securitization of those assets.

但我們會與越來越多的合作夥伴合作，這些資產的證券化程度可能會更高。

Got it, I appreciate it.

明白了，我很感激。

That was very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And then just maybe to attack the collateral question for your credit enhance program a different way, if you reach that $1 billion dollar balance at some point in the year, what would be the range of maybe associated deposits that would come with that that you would hold?

然後也許可以換一種方式來解決你的信用提升計劃的抵押問題，如果你在一年中的某個時候達到了 10 億美元的餘額，那麼你可能會獲得多少相關存款？

It's going to vary, but remember, it's rolling over, right?

它會有所變化，但請記住，它會滾動，對嗎？

So to the extent that there are losses where we have credit enhancements in that way.

所以，如果出現損失，我們就會透過這種方式來增強信用。

So that the money gets or either the bad loan or the nonpaid loans are sold or otherwise repaid.

這樣，錢就到了，或者壞帳或未償還的貸款被出售或以其他方式償還。

I's a constant flow so that balance is never really going to grow that significantly.

我是一個恆定的流動，因此餘額實際上永遠不會增長那麼大。

Got it.

知道了。

Okay.

好的。

And then just kind of switching gears here.

然後就在這裡切換話題。

Can you discuss any themes or trends that have emerged from recent contract negotiations with your partners?

您能討論一下最近與合作夥伴進行的合約談判中出現的任何主題或趨勢嗎？

It's a very -- it's the same thing for the last couple of years.

這是非常——過去幾年的情況一直都是一樣的。

We're going to add three, four partners a year, their expanded needs.

我們每年將增加三、四個合作夥伴，以滿足他們不斷擴大的需求。

So our conversations are not only on the expanding to the credit side or maybe on the debit side if you're a credit provider, but also things like we're building out in an embedded finance.

因此，我們的討論不僅涉及信貸方面的擴展，或者如果你是信貸提供者，則涉及借記方面的擴展，還涉及我們正在構建的嵌入式金融等事宜。

So the conversations are more broad, the disruption in the industry has made the industry for us at least far less price sensitive, right?

因此，對話更加廣泛，行業的混亂至少使得我們行業對價格的敏感度降低了很多，對嗎？

So people, especially the large complex players, are looking for a longterm if they've decided.

因此，人們，特別是大型綜合企​​業，如果做出了決定，就會尋求長期發展。

And I think most of them have not to be a financial institution per se.

我認為其中大多數本質上都不是金融機構。

They are looking for a 5-year minimum, 10-year, 20-year solution, somebody that they can work with to provide access to the banking system, but then also grow with them and be an enabler.

他們正在尋找一個至少 5 年、10 年、20 年的解決方案，尋求一個可以與他們合作以提供銀行系統訪問權限，同時與他們共同成長並成為推動者的人。

And at the end of the day, we're not the innovator, we're the enabler.

歸根究底，我們不是創新者，而是推動者。

So do we have the wisdom from past experience, but also the relationships in the industry of which we obviously do to solve problems for them because they want to innovate.

因此，我們不僅擁有過去經驗中的智慧，而且也擁有產業中的關係，顯然我們可以藉此為他們解決問題，因為他們想要創新。

I mean, it's clear that all these fintechs now want to have a very diversified portfolio and it's not even debit credit, embedded finance, it might even be things like securities trading, et cetera.

我的意思是，很明顯，所有這些金融科技公司現在都希望擁有非常多樣化的投資組合，它甚至不是藉記卡、嵌入式金融，甚至可能是證券交易等等。

So that's where this industry is going.

這就是這個產業的發展方向。

And so we're developing our capabilities along with it, right?

所以我們也在不斷發展我們的能力，對嗎？

And that demand is definitely there.

而這種需求確實存在。

We don't, I think we're going to have like we saw in the fourth quarter, we're going to have a dramatic '25.

我們不會，我認為我們將會像在第四節看到的那樣，經歷戲劇性的25分鐘。

If you just take our run rate and just multiply it by four, you'll see substantial growth.

如果您將我們的運行率乘以四，您將看到大幅的成長。

But what's most exciting isn't that for us, it's these new product development areas and once again, it's a layer cake.

但對我們來說，最令人興奮的不是這些，而是這些新的產品開發領域，而這又是一層層蛋糕。

So you've got the base business growing double digits and then you add on two products, a rapid expansion of things like rapid funds.

因此，你的基礎業務實現了兩位數的成長，然後你又添加了兩種產品，實現了快速基金等業務的快速擴張。

And then you also have new product categories which are all fees and then have totally connected to all the other fees that we're generating, that create sustainable GDV.

然後，您還會擁有新的產品類別，這些類別都是費用，然後與我們產生的所有其他費用完全相關，從而創造可持續的 GDV。

So they're more complex, they're much more product focused.

因此它們更加複雜，更加重視產品。

There's not a lot of pricing pressure, at least now on us.

至少現在我們面臨的定價壓力不大。

But we're a fair pricer too.

但我們的定價也是公平的。

We're not -- we have such scale that when we do these big contracts, they have tiers.

我們不是——我們的規模如此之大，以至於當我們簽訂這些大合約時，它們是有層級的。

So as we grow with our client and they expand their product set on our base business, they reach certain levels; we make more money and they make more money.

因此，隨著我們與客戶共同成長，他們在我們的基礎業務上擴展他們的產品組合，他們達到了一定的水平；我們賺更多錢，他們也賺更多錢。

So everybody and we're very if you recall, we're very piece of the interchange story.

所以，如果您還記得的話，每個人，我們都非常參與交流故事。

So, we're the last person that we have all the money in the beginning, but we don't keep a lot of it.

所以，我們是最後一個一開始就擁有所有錢的人，但我們不會保留太多錢。

We give it to every visa.

我們為每一份簽證都提供它。

We give it to the networks, we give it to our program managers.

我們將它提供給網絡，我們將它提供給我們的專案經理。

But because of our scale and sophistication, we can turn a very little a bit of RMER into because there's so much going through the bank, we can be very efficient for our partner, but we can make a lot of money while we're doing that.

但由於我們的規模和成熟度，我們可以將很少的RMER 轉化為，因為有很多事情要通過銀行，我們可以為我們的合作夥伴提供非常高效的服務，但我們在做這些事情的同時，也可以賺很多錢那。

No, that was very thorough.

不，那非常徹底。

And then last one for me here.

這是我的最後一個。

What is the timing on the repayment of your sub debt that you called out?

您所要求的次級債務的償還時間是什麼時候？

And then separately, is there any reason buyback activity wouldn't snap back in 2026?

另外，有什麼原因導致回購活動在 2026 年不會恢復？

Yes.

是的。

So other capital deployment priorities, unless there is some inorganic thing that we did the and we don't expect to do anything big like that.

因此，其他資本部署優先事項，除非我們做了一些無機的事情，否則我們不希望做任何這樣的大事。

So the we are dedicated to 100% repatriation of our net income.

因此，我們致力於將淨收入 100% 匯回國內。

So the senior secured debt, we never had any subdebt.

因此，對於優先擔保債務，我們從未有過任何次級債務。

We raised $100 million at low interest rates.

我們以低利率籌集了 1 億美元。

It was at a very low coupon when that was and we did $100 million kind of to test it and it was way oversubscribed and we had it for five years.

當時它的票面利率非常低，我們投入了 1 億美元進行測試，結果認購量大大增加，我們持有它五年了。

And now it's being repaid, there's $96 million left of it.

現在正在償還，還剩下 9,600 萬美元。

We actually bought some of it in the open market during the stress period because we actually got it at a discount.

我們實際上在壓力時期在公開市場上購買了一些東西，因為我們實際上是以折扣價買到的。

And so we brought our own debt back.

這樣，我們就又帶回了自己的債務。

But we could substantially -- the only reason we would borrow probably is to the stock wasn't fairly valued in an extreme way.

但我們可以大量借款，唯一的原因可能是股票的估值不夠公平。

So we don't -- we expect just to pay back the $96 million.

所以我們不會——我們只希望償還 9600 萬美元。

We can do that out of cash flow and sustain our capital.

我們可以利用現金流來實現這一點並維持我們的資本。

Next year as we continue to grow, net income buybacks will mirror net income because we have no other debt.

明年，隨著我們繼續成長，淨收入回購將反映淨收入，因為我們沒有其他債務。

That's our only debt.

這是我們唯一的債務。

There's no other use of it.

它沒有其他用途。

So we don't and we don't need any more capital because the reg ii and the Durbin limit.

因此，由於 reg II 和 Durbin 限制，我們不需要更多資本。

So unless they raise the Durbin limit to -- and there's some discussion that that might happen, which would be enormously beneficial for us, if that happened.

因此，除非他們將 Durbin 限制提高到——並且有討論稱這可能會發生，如果發生這種情況，這將對我們來說非常有利。

Unless that happens, we're going to stay giving all the money back, but increasing the velocity of our balance sheet dramatically through things like credit sponsorship, through the sale of maybe SBA guaranteed, by selling rebel loans and packages and stuff like we have in the past.

除非發生這種情況，否則我們將繼續返還所有資金，但透過信貸贊助、出售 SBA 擔保的貸款、出售反叛貸款和一攬子計劃等方式，大幅提高我們的資產負債表週轉速度。

And that will make our balance sheet appear to be a lot more productive than the average balance sheet, which would continue, will allow us to continue to generate substantial fees.

這將使我們的資產負債表看起來比平均資產負債表更有生產力，這將使我們能夠繼續產生可觀的費用。

Now, if you think about -- I'm going to give you one more thing and that's if you thought about the last few years.

現在，如果你思考一下──我要再給你一件事，那就是如果你思考過去幾年。

We had a filling up of the balance sheet in the NIM category, right?

我們已經在 NIM 類別中填寫了資產負債表，對嗎？

So we were building what we consider low-risk businesses and we were kind of building for the future of this product diversification.

因此，我們正在建立我們認為的低風險業務，我們正在為產品多樣化的未來進行建構。

And then we got that balance sheet opportunity.

然後我們就得到了資產負債表機會。

We hadn't bought a bond and we locked in our and lowered our asset sensitivity last year in April when we bought almost $1 billion of bonds, right?

我們沒有買過債券，去年 4 月我們購買了近 10 億美元的債券，從而鎖定並降低了資產敏感度，對嗎？

So interest rates go down.

因此利率下降。

It's not really going to affect us very much about a 1% for

1% 的降幅對我們影響不大

[100].

[100]

But now it's the inflection point.

但現在是一個轉捩點。

Now, it's not those business that are driving and the men -- is the businesses and in businesses levering up and then it was locking it in because we went from variable to fixed.

現在，推動的不是這些業務，而是業務和業務中的槓桿，然後將其鎖定，因為我們從可變變為固定。

Now, the whole story now is credit sponsorship.

現在，整個故事就是信用贊助。

It's fintech, right?

這是金融科技，對吧？

So now fee growth is going to take over at least for the next couple of years until we get a lot of these other programs that are much higher spread in the consumer fintech world.

因此，至少在未來幾年內，費用將持續成長，直到我們推出許多在消費者金融科技領域普及率較高的其他項目。

But they, but it will all be fintech.

但他們，都將是金融科技。

So you're going to get a reordering of how our balance sheet has grown.

因此，您將重新了解我們的資產負債表的成長情況。

And then the big bump from what we call Project Flex was the balance sheet management during the pandemic.

我們所謂的 Project Flex 帶來的巨大衝擊是疫情期間的資產負債表管理。

And now it's the whole story, is the fintech story.

現在這就是整個故事，是金融科技的故事。

The growth is there, the fee growth is there, even on the credit side it's going to be mostly the credit sponsorship story.

成長是存在的，費用是存在的，即使在信貸方面，它也主要涉及信貸贊助的故事。

All right.

好的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And there are no further questions at this time.

目前沒有其他問題。

I would like to turn it back to our CEO, Damian Kozlowski, for closing remarks.

我想請我們的執行長 Damian Kozlowski 作最後發言。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today.

感謝大家今天的參與。

Operator, you may disconnect the call.

接線員，您可以掛斷電話了。

Thank you, presenters.

謝謝主持人。

And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you all for participating.

感謝大家的參與。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。

Have a lovely day.

祝您有個愉快的一天。