意法半導體 (STM) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the STMicroelectronics Q2 2023 Earnings Results Conference Call and Live Webcast. I am Moira, the Chorus Call operator. (Operator Instructions) The conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast.

女士們、先生們，歡迎參加意法半導體 2023 年第二季度盈利結果電話會議和網絡直播。我是莫伊拉，合唱呼叫操作員。 （操作員指示）會議正在錄製。 （操作員說明）不得對會議進行錄音以供出版或廣播。

At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Celine Berthier, Group Vice President, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, madam.

此時此刻，我很高興將工作交給集團副總裁兼投資者關係主管 Celine Berthier。請繼續，女士。

Thank you, Mara, and good morning. Thank you, everyone, for joining our second quarter 2023 financial results conference call.

謝謝你，瑪拉，早上好。感謝大家參加我們的 2023 年第二季度財務業績電話會議。

Hosting the call today is Jean-Marc Chery, ST's President and Chief Executive Officer. Joining Jean-Marc on the call today are Lorenzo Grandi, President of Finance, Purchasing, ERM and Revenue and Chief Financial Officer; Marco Cassis, President of Analog, MEMS and Sensor Group and Head of STMicroelectronics Strategy, System Research and Application Innovation Office.

今天主持電話會議的是 ST 總裁兼首席執行官 Jean-Marc Chery。今天與 Jean-Marc 一起參加電話會議的還有財務、採購、企業風險管理和收入總裁兼首席財務官 Lorenzo Grandi； Marco Cassis，模擬、MEMS 和傳感器事業部總裁兼意法半導體戰略、系統研究和應用創新辦公室負責人。

This live webcast and presentation materials can be accessed on ST's Investor Relations website. The replay will be available shortly after the conclusion of this call.

您可以在 ST 的投資者關係網站上訪問該現場網絡廣播和演示材料。重播將在本次電話會議結束後不久提供。

This call will include forward-looking statements that involve risk factors that could cause ST's results to differ materially from management's expectations and plans. We encourage you to review the safe harbor statement contained in the press release that was issued with the results this morning and also in ST's most recent regulatory filings for a full description of these risk factors.

此次電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述涉及可能導致 ST 的業績與管理層的預期和計劃存在重大差異的風險因素。我們鼓勵您查看今天上午發布的新聞稿中包含的安全港聲明以及 ST 最新的監管文件中包含的安全港聲明，以獲取對這些風險因素的完整描述。

(Operator Instructions) I'd now like to turn the call over to Jean-Marc, President, and CEO.

（操作員說明）我現在想將電話轉給總裁兼首席執行官 Jean-Marc。

Thank you, Celine, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining ST for our Q2 2023 earnings conference call. In Q2, our balanced end market approach, our broad product portfolio and strong customer relationships, enabled again a double-digit year-over-year growth. This performance came along with a year-over-year increase of our profitability. And as already anticipated, 2023 will be another year of progress toward our $20 billion plus revenue ambition and related financial model.

謝謝 Celine，大家早上好，感謝您參加 ST 的 2023 年第二季度財報電話會議。第二季度，我們平衡的終端市場策略、廣泛的產品組合和強大的客戶關係再次實現了兩位數的同比增長。這一業績伴隨著我們盈利能力的逐年增長而實現。正如已經預期的那樣，2023 年將是我們朝著 200 億美元以上收入目標和相關財務模式邁進的又一年。

Now let's start with the financial highlights overview. Second quarter net revenues of $4.33 billion came in above the midpoint of our business outlook range, and Q2 gross margin of 49% was in line with guidance. Q2 net revenues increased 12.7% year-over-year. The revenue performance continued to be driven by growth in Automotive and Industrial, partially offset by lower revenues in Personal Electronics.

現在讓我們從財務亮點概述開始。第二季度淨收入為 43.3 億美元，高於我們業務前景範圍的中點，第二季度毛利率為 49%，符合預期。第二季度淨收入同比增長 12.7%。收入表現繼續受到汽車和工業增長的推動，但部分被個人電子產品收入下降所抵消。

Looking at our year-over-year performance, gross margin increased to 49% from 47.4%. Operating margin increased to 26.5% from 26.2%. And net income increased 15.5% to $1 billion. On the first half of 2023, net revenues increased 16.1% year-over-year to $8.57 billion, driven by growth in all product groups, except the Analog and MEMS subgroups. We reported gross margin of 49.3%, operating margin of 27.4% and net income of $2.05 billion.

從我們的同比業績來看，毛利率從 47.4% 增至 49%。營業利潤率從 26.2% 增至 26.5%。淨利潤增長 15.5%，達到 10 億美元。 2023 年上半年，淨收入同比增長 16.1%，達到 85.7 億美元，這得益於除模擬和 MEMS 子組之外的所有產品組的增長。我們的毛利率為 49.3%，營業利潤率為 27.4%，淨利潤為 20.5 億美元。

On Q3 2023, our third quarter business outlook at the midpoint is for net revenues of about $4.38 billion, increasing 1.2% year-over-year and by 1.1% sequentially. Excluding the impact of the change in product mix in an engaged customer program in Personal Electronics, I mentioned in January, the Q3 revenue growth at the midpoint would be 3.5% year-over-year and 3.2% sequentially. Gross margin is expected to be about 47.5%. For the full year 2023, we will drive the company based on the plan for revenues of $17.4 billion, plus or minus $150 million. This represents a year-over-year growth of about 8%, and we now anticipate the gross margin to exceed 48% for the full year.

2023 年第三季度，我們對第三季度業務的中點預期是淨收入約為 43.8 億美元，同比增長 1.2%，環比增長 1.1%。我在 1 月份提到，排除個人電子產品客戶計劃中產品組合變化的影響，第三季度收入中點增長率將為同比 3.5%，環比 3.2%。毛利率預計約為47.5%。 2023年全年，我們將按照營收174億美元上下浮動1.5億美元的計劃推動公司。這意味著同比增長約8%，我們目前預計全年毛利率將超過48%。

Now I will move to a detailed review of the second quarter. Net revenues increased 12.7% year-over-year. This performance was driven mainly by ADG, up 34.4%, and MDG, up 13%, and continued strength in Automotive and Industrial. AMS revenues decreased 15.7%, mainly reflecting lower revenues in Personal Electronics as expected. Year-over-year, sales increased 9.8% to OEMs and 18.3% to Distribution.

現在我將詳細回顧第二季度。淨收入同比增長12.7%。這一業績主要得益於日均總收入 (ADG) 增長 34.4%、千年發展目標 (MDG) 增長 13%，以及汽車和工業領域的持續強勁增長。 AMS 收入下降 15.7%，主要反映個人電子產品收入低於預期。與去年同期相比，原始設備製造商的銷售額增長了 9.8%，分銷商的銷售額增長了 18.3%。

On a sequential basis, net revenues increased 1.9% with ADG up 8.2%, MDG up 4.3% and AMS down 11.9%. Net revenues came in 110 basis points above the midpoint of our outlook, mainly due to Automotive.

環比淨收入增長 1.9%，其中 ADG 增長 8.2%，MDG 增長 4.3%，AMS 下降 11.9%。淨收入比我們預期的中點高出 110 個基點，這主要歸功於汽車業務。

Gross profit was $2.12 billion, increasing 16.5% year-over-year. Gross margin increased to 49% compared to 47.4% in the same quarter last year. The 160 basis points expansion was driven by product mix, favorable pricing, positive currency effect net of hedging, and partially offset by higher manufacturing costs. Year-over-year, the second quarter operating income increased 14.2% to $1.15 billion. In the quarter, net operating expenses include negative nonrecurring noncash items amounting to $34 million. Operating margin was 26.5%, increasing from 26.2% in Q2 2022.

毛利潤為21.2億美元，同比增長16.5%。毛利率由去年同期的 47.4% 增至 49%。 160 個基點的擴張是由產品組合、有利的定價、扣除對沖後的積極貨幣效應推動的，但部分被較高的製造成本所抵消。第二季度營業收入同比增長 14.2%，達到 11.5 億美元。本季度淨運營支出包括總計 3400 萬美元的負非經常性非現金項目。營業利潤率為 26.5%，高於 2022 年第二季度的 26.2%。

On a year-over-year basis, Q2 net income increased 15.5% to $1 billion compared to $867 million in the year ago quarter. Earnings per diluted share increased 15.2% to $1.06 compared to $0.92.

與去年同期相比，第二季度淨利潤增長 15.5%，達到 10 億美元，而去年同期為 8.67 億美元。稀釋後每股收益增長 15.2%，從 0.92 美元增至 1.06 美元。

Looking at our year-over-year sales performance by product group: ADG revenues increased 34.4%, on double-digit growth in both Automotive and Power Discrete. AMS revenues decreased 15.7%, with lower revenues in the 3 subgroups. MDG revenues increased 13%, with growth in Microcontrollers and RF Communications.

按產品組查看我們的同比銷售業績：ADG 收入增長了 34.4%，汽車和功率分立器件業務均實現兩位數增長。 AMS 收入下降 15.7%，其中 3 個子組的收入有所下降。隨著微控制器和射頻通信業務的增長，MDG 收入增長了 13%。

In terms of operating margin, 2 of 3 product groups delivered year-on-year improvement: ADG operating margin increased to 31.9% from 24.7%. MDG operating margin increased to 35.4% from 33.6%, while AMS operating margin decreased to 14.8% from 24.1%.

營業利潤率方面，3 個產品組中有 2 個產品組實現同比改善：ADG 營業利潤率從 24.7% 增至 31.9%。 MDG 營業利潤率從 33.6% 增至 35.4%，而 AMS 營業利潤率從 24.1% 下降至 14.8%。

Net cash from operating activities increased 24.1% to $1.31 billion in Q2 versus $1.06 billion in the year ago quarter.

第二季度經營活動產生的淨現金增長 24.1%，達到 13.1 億美元，而去年同期為 10.6 億美元。

CapEx in the second quarter was $1.07 billion compared to $809 million in the year ago quarter.

第二季度資本支出為 10.7 億美元，而去年同期資本支出為 8.09 億美元。

Free cash flow was $209 million compared to the $230 million in the year ago quarter.

自由現金流為 2.09 億美元，去年同期為 2.3 億美元。

During the second quarter, ST paid $50 million of cash dividends to stockholders, and we executed an $86 million share buyback under our current share repurchase program.

第二季度，ST向股東支付了5000萬美元的現金股息，並根據當前的股票回購計劃執行了8600萬美元的股票回購。

ST's net financial position of $1.91 billion as of July 1, 2023, reflected total liquidity of $4.56 billion and total financial debt of $2.65 billion.

截至2023年7月1日，ST的淨財務狀況為19.1億美元，反映流動性總額為45.6億美元，金融債務總額為26.5億美元。

Let me go through a recap of the main Q2 corporate and business highlights. We had 2 important announcements in Q2 related to our 300-millimeter and silicon carbide strategic manufacturing programs. First, we announced the conclusion of the 3-party agreements among the state of France, GlobalFoundries and our company, as approved by the European Commission. This relates to the new 300-millimeter semiconductor manufacturing facility in Crolles, France, first announced last July. This agreement will contribute to our $20 billion-plus revenue ambition and related financial model, and will further reinforce the European and French FD-SOI ecosystem.

讓我回顧一下第二季度的主要公司和業務亮點。我們在第二季度發布了兩項與 300 毫米和碳化矽戰略製造計劃相關的重要公告。首先，我們宣布法國政府、GlobalFoundries 和我們公司之間達成三方協議，並獲得歐盟委員會的批准。這與去年 7 月首次宣布的位於法國克羅爾的新 300 毫米半導體製造工廠有關。該協議將為我們超過 200 億美元的收入目標和相關財務模式做出貢獻，並將進一步加強歐洲和法國的 FD-SOI 生態系統。

We will build more capacity for our European and global customers in advanced technologies as they transition to digitalization and decarbonization. The total investment for this project is expected to be about EUR 7.5 billion, and will benefit from French state financial support up to about EUR 2.9 billion, in line with the objectives set out in the European Chips Act.

隨著歐洲和全球客戶向數字化和脫碳轉型，我們將為他們提供更多先進技術能力。該項目總投資預計約為75億歐元，並將受益於法國國家高達約29億歐元的財政支持，符合《歐洲芯片法案》設定的目標。

In silicon carbide, we announced a joint venture with Sanan Optoelectronics for high-volume 200-millimeter silicon carbide device manufacturing in China. The joint venture will support the rising demand for ST silicon carbide devices in China for car electrification and industrial power and energy applications. Sanan will build separately a 200-millimeter silicon carbide substrate manufacturing facility to fulfill the JV's need.

在碳化矽方面，我們宣布與三安光電成立合資公司，在中國大批量生產200毫米碳化矽器件。該合資公司將支持中國汽車電氣化以及工業電力和能源應用對意法半導體碳化矽器件不斷增長的需求。三安將單獨建設一座200毫米碳化矽襯底製造設施，以滿足合資公司的需求。

The combination of the 200-millimeter substrate facility to be built by Sanan, with the front-end JV and ST's existing back-end facility in Shenzhen, will enable ST to offer our Chinese customers a fully vertical integrated silicon carbide value chain, a significant competitive advantage in the silicon carbide landscape.

三安將要建造的200毫米襯底工廠與前端合資企業和意法半導體在深圳現有的後端工廠相結合，將使意法半導體能夠為我們的中國客戶提供完全垂直一體化的碳化矽價值鏈，這是一個重要的產業鏈。碳化矽領域的競爭優勢。

The new joint venture of silicon carbide fab is targeting to start production in Q4 2025, and full build-out is anticipated in 2028. It is an important step to further scale our global silicon carbide manufacturing operations, coming in addition to our continuing significant investments in Italy and Singapore. It will be 1 of the key enablers of the opportunity we see to reach above $5 billion silicon carbide yearly revenues by 2030.

新的碳化矽工廠合資企業計劃於 2025 年第四季度開始生產，預計於 2028 年全面建成。這是我們在持續進行重大投資的基礎上進一步擴大全球碳化矽製造業務的重要一步在意大利和新加坡。我們預計，到 2030 年，碳化矽年收入將達到 50 億美元以上，這將是關鍵推動因素之一。

In this corporate development overview, I would like also to mention a change in our Executive Committee. During the quarter, Orio Bellezza, President, Quality Manufacturing, Technology and Supply Chain, and Member of ST Executive Committee, announced his retirement from the company. Orio will remain Managing Director of the company's Italian subsidiary until the expiration of his mandate. Fabio Gualandris, ST Executive Vice President, Head of Back-end Manufacturing and Technology and Deputy to Orio Bellezza, is appointed President, Quality Manufacturing and Technology. Upon my proposal, ST's Supervisory Board approved the appointment of Fabio to the company Executive Committee. I would like to thank Orio for his engagement in the numerous roles he has played at ST. And I wish Fabio all the best in his new role.

在這篇公司發展概述中，我還想提到我們執行委員會的變化。本季度，質量製造、技術和供應鏈總裁兼 ST 執行委員會成員 Orio Bellezza 宣布從公司退休。奧里奧將繼續擔任該公司意大利子公司的董事總經理，直至其任期屆滿。 ST 執行副總裁、後端製造和技術主管兼 Orio Bellezza 副手 Fabio Gualandris 被任命為質量製造和技術總裁。根據我的提議，ST監事會批准任命Fabio為公司執行委員會成員。我要感謝 Orio 在 ST 擔任的眾多角色。我祝愿法比奧在他的新角色中一切順利。

I will now go through a short update on some of our strategic focus areas. In silicon carbide, we continue to increase the number of engagements: we are now working with 90 customers and 140 projects. Silicon carbide based power systems for electrical vehicle traction and industrial drives are complemented by our industry-leading STGAP galvanic isolation drivers based on ST's unique IP and advanced BCD technology. We announced an R&D collaboration with Airbus on wide bandgap semiconductors for aircraft electrification and decarbonization. This confirmed ST's leadership and the strength of our silicon carbide technology roadmap.

我現在將簡要介紹我們的一些戰略重點領域的最新情況。在碳化矽領域，我們不斷增加合作數量：目前我們正在與 90 個客戶和 140 個項目合作。用於電動汽車牽引和工業驅動的碳化矽電源系統與基於 ST 獨特 IP 和先進 BCD 技術的行業領先 STGAP 電流隔離驅動器相輔相成。我們宣布與空中客車公司就用於飛機電氣化和脫碳的寬帶隙半導體進行研發合作。這證實了意法半導體的領導地位和我們碳化矽技術路線圖的實力。

In car digitalization, we saw continued design momentum with our later generation of automotive microcontrollers called Stellar across multiple applications. In parallel, in ADAS, we continue working closely with our long-time customer and partner, Mobileye. Their EyeQ6 product is now in production, and EyeQ Ultra at the R&D phase. Volumes of previous generations are ramping up.

在汽車數字化領域，我們看到了新一代汽車微控制器 Stellar 在多種應用中的持續設計勢頭。與此同時，在 ADAS 領域，我們繼續與我們的長期客戶和合作夥伴 Mobileye 密切合作。他們的 EyeQ6 產品現已投入生產，而 EyeQ Ultra 正處於研發階段。前幾代的銷量正在增加。

In May, we held our annual STM32 summit event for industrial customers in China, with 2,700 customers in person and a record breaking of 80,000 online. During the event, we made announcements related to edge AI, namely AI running on microcontrollers, microprocessors and sensors. We launched a new family of microprocessor for secure industry 4.0 and edge AI to allow our developers to address higher performance applications.

5月，我們在中國舉辦了一年一度的STM32工業客戶峰會活動，現場客戶人數達到2,700人，在線人數突破了80,000人的紀錄。活動期間，我們發布了與邊緣人工智能相關的公告，即在微控制器、微處理器和傳感器上運行的人工智能。我們推出了用於安全工業 4.0 和邊緣人工智能的新微處理器系列，使我們的開發人員能夠解決更高性能的應用程序。

We also gave further details on the upcoming STM32N6 microcontroller. This is ST's first MCU with our neural processing unit hardware accelerator and will bring the best-in-class computing power, power consumption and cost of ownership for the applications we target. One of the industrial application demos we built with the customer performs up to 75 times faster for AI workloads versus today's high performance MCUs.

我們還提供了有關即將推出的 STM32N6 微控制器的更多詳細信息。這是ST首款配備神經處理單元硬件加速器的MCU，將為我們的目標應用帶來一流的計算能力、功耗和擁有成本。我們與客戶共同構建的工業應用演示之一，與當今的高性能 MCU 相比，AI 工作負載的執行速度提高了 75 倍。

We will start to sample the STM32N6 from September onwards.

我們將從 9 月份開始提供 STM32N6 樣品。

For developers, we are expanding our STM32Cube.ai software offering, including the launch of a collaboration with NVIDIA around the TAO, so Train, Adapt, Optimize toolkit now available. Edge AI is not only STM32. We have the same approach for sensors with the release of a new toolkit and associated software for our intelligent MEMS sensors for activity recognition and anomaly detection directly in the sensor.

對於開發人員，我們正在擴展我們的 STM32Cube.ai 軟件產品，包括圍繞 TAO 與 NVIDIA 展開合作，因此現在可以使用訓練、調整、優化工具包。邊緣AI不僅僅是STM32。我們對傳感器採取了相同的方法，為我們的智能 MEMS 傳感器發布了新的工具包和相關軟件，以便直接在傳感器中進行活動識別和異常檢測。

Now let's move to our third quarter 2023 financial outlook and our plan for the full year 2023.

現在讓我們談談 2023 年第三季度的財務展望和 2023 年全年的計劃。

Wait a minute. For the third quarter, at the midpoint, we expect net revenues to be about $4.38 billion, representing year-over-year and sequential growth of 1.2% and 1.1%, respectively. As anticipated in January, we are entering in H2 2023 with a significant change in product mix in an engaged customer program in Personal Electronics. Excluding this change, our Q3 '23 revenues at the midpoint would grow year-over-year by 3.5% and sequentially by 3.2%. And based on our indication of $17.4 billion revenues for full year 2023, H2 2023 revenues would grow by about 6% compared both to H1 2023 and H2 2022.

等一下。對於第三季度的中值，我們預計淨收入約為 43.8 億美元，同比和環比分別增長 1.2% 和 1.1%。正如 1 月份預計的那樣，我們將在 2023 年下半年進入個人電子產品客戶計劃的產品組合發生重大變化的階段。排除這一變化，我們 23 年第三季度的收入中點將同比增長 3.5%，環比增長 3.2%。根據我們對 2023 年全年 174 億美元收入的預測，與 2023 年上半年和 2022 年下半年相比，2023 年下半年收入將增長約 6%。

Q3 gross margin is expected to be about 47.5% at the midpoint, including about 150 basis points of unused capacity charges. For 2023, based on our visibility, we will drive the company based on a plan for full year 2023 revenues of $17.4 billion, plus or minus $150 million. This represents growth of about 8% over 2022. The full year 2023 gross margin will exceed 48%. We confirm our 2023 CapEx plan of about $4 billion. Thank you, and we are now ready to answer your questions.

第三季度毛利率中值預計約為 47.5%，其中包括約 150 個基點的未使用產能費用。對於 2023 年，根據我們的知名度，我們將根據 2023 年全年收入 174 億美元（上下浮動 1.5 億美元）的計劃來推動公司發展。這意味著比 2022 年增長約 8%。2023 年全年毛利率將超過 48%。我們確認 2023 年資本支出計劃約為 40 億美元。謝謝您，我們現在準備回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions) The first question is from Jerome Ramel from Exane.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自 Exane 的 Jerome Ramel。

Yes. First question, if you could help us to understand the dynamic per division for Q3 and [year-over-year]? That would be the first question.

是的。第一個問題，您是否可以幫助我們了解第三季度和[同比]每個部門的動態？這是第一個問題。

The dynamic for Q3 sequentially and year-over-year, I have to say that year-over-year, ADG and, let's say, will grow significantly, let's say, well above 20%. MDG will slightly grow year-over-year Q3 over Q4, but it is linked, okay, to the fact that China will not start slower than expected. Now AMS, okay, will decrease year-over-year by 31%, okay? But also this must be also corrected by the fact that we have this change in product mix.

從第三季度的環比和同比動態來看，我不得不說，ADG 同比將大幅增長，遠高於 20%。第三季度的千年發展目標將比第四季度略有增長，但這與中國的起步速度不會慢於預期有關。現在AMS，好吧，將同比下降31%，好嗎？但我們也必須通過產品結構的變化這一事實來糾正這一點。

Well, sequentially, if we look Q3 2023 versus Q2, ADG will continue to grow, I have to say, a single-digit. AMS will be basically flattish. And MDG, okay, will slightly decrease again for the same reason because, in China, we do not see the expected restart is slower than expected.

好吧，如果我們將 2023 年第三季度與第二季度相比，我不得不說，平均日總收入將繼續增長，單位數。 AMS 基本上是平坦的。好吧，出於同樣的原因，千年發展目標將再次略有下降，因為在中國，我們沒有看到預期的重啟速度比預期慢。

Okay. And maybe a question for Lorenzo on the OpEx. Probably came above expectation for Q2. How should we think about the OpEx for Q3 and maybe the second half of this year?

好的。也許還有一個關於運營支出的問題要問 Lorenzo。第二季度可能超出預期。我們應該如何看待第三季度甚至今年下半年的運營支出？

In terms of OpEx, this quarter -- last quarter, in Q2, we were coming with a little bit higher level of OpEx. As we said, that we had [one time] that were not forecasted entering the quarter. And actually, the level of grants that we were expecting were not materializing due to the fact that they were a little bit postponed for administrative reasons, we were not in the position to recognize. What will happen in Q3, next OpEx, including other income and expenses will decline significantly in respect to Q2. We do expect a net OpEx in the range of $880 million and $890 million for this quarter, for Q3. This is the combination of seasonality and let's say the fact that the level of other income and expenses will be significantly positive, thanks to the fact that we will be in the position to recognize R&D grants. That was not the case in Q2. But for the year, I think we will position Q4 for sure in terms of OpEx, there will be some increase. Usually is a quarter that is a little bit, in terms of seasonality, more high level in terms of operating expenses.

就運營支出而言，本季度 - 上個季度，即第二季度，我們的運營支出水平略高一些。正如我們所說，我們[一次]在本季度出現了未預測的情況。事實上，我們預期的贈款水平並沒有實現，因為由於行政原因，它們被稍微推遲了，我們無法承認這一點。第三季度會發生什麼，接下來的運營支出，包括其他收入和支出將比第二季度大幅下降。我們預計本季度第三季度的淨運營支出將在 8.8 億美元至 8.9 億美元之間。這是季節性因素的結合，假設其他收入和支出水平將顯著為正，這要歸功於我們將能夠認可研發補助金。第二季度的情況並非如此。但就今年而言，我認為我們肯定會在運營支出方面定位第四季度，會有一些增長。通常是一個季度，就季節性而言，運營費用水平較高。

I think at the end of the year, the range quarterly OpEx will be in the range of between $910 million or $930 million, something like that.

我認為到今年年底，季度運營支出的範圍將在 9.1 億美元或 9.3 億美元之間，大約是這樣的。

The next question is from Francois Bouvignies from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的弗朗索瓦·布維尼 (Francois Bouvignies)。

So I have 2 quick ones. First 1 is on Automotive. I mean, obviously, very strong performance, 34% growth year-over-year. Now if I look at the peers. I mean, NXP is growing 9% -- it's automotive, Renesas is growing 3% year-over-year this quarter. So you seem to outperform by far your peers in terms of growth rates. Now I understand that silicon carbide is a big growth driver. But even if I try to exclude silicon carbide from this growth, I get definitely more than 25% growth year-over-year anyway. So I was just wondering, can you explain the strong outperformance versus some of your peers. [Tesla] is also growing like 20%,, excluding silicon carbide as such?

所以我有兩個快速的。第 1 個是關於汽車。我的意思是，顯然，業績非常強勁，同比增長 34%。現在，如果我看看同行。我的意思是，NXP 增長了 9%——汽車領域，Renesas 本季度同比增長了 3%。因此，就增長率而言，您似乎遠遠超過了同行。現在我明白碳化矽是一個巨大的增長動力。但即使我試圖將碳化矽排除在這一增長之外，無論如何我也肯定會獲得超過 25% 的同比增長。所以我只是想知道，你能解釋一下與一些同行相比表現出色的原因嗎？ [特斯拉] 也增長了 20% 左右，，不包括碳化矽嗎？

And I'm asking because the U.S. peers, essentially they are saying that they don't want to fill the industry with inventories and they are managing basically this. So is there a risk that you fill too much the channel with inventories? Or yes, that's why I'm asking the drivers behind this stronger performance? And I have another 1 after.

我之所以這麼問，是因為美國同行基本上是在說，他們不想讓這個行業充滿庫存，而他們基本上正在對此進行管理。那麼是否存在渠道庫存過多的風險？或者是的，這就是為什麼我要問這種更強勁表現背後的驅動因素？之後我還有另外 1 個。

No, I think there is -- the first reason fundamentally that we overperformed our peers, basically 2 reasons, we see that, okay. Do not forget that we partner with Mobileye. Mobileye is a leader worldwide of ADAS system. Now ADAS is more and more [challenging] the car industry, also driven by regulation. And if you want to be a 5-star NCAP, this kind of stuff, so you must embed some ADAS features. And ST is a partner of ADAS. And this is what I say in my script, the current generation of ADAS, mainly EyeQ4 and EyeQ3 are really ramping materially more. And the second reason, I know we are focusing on silicon carbide, but there is just Renesas and NXP. On top of that, we have, let's say, a richer portfolio, a larger portfolio on analog and microcontroller and MEMS.

不，我認為有——第一個根本原因是我們表現優於同行，基本上有兩個原因，我們看到了，好吧。不要忘記我們與 Mobileye 合作。 Mobileye 是 ADAS 系統的全球領導者。如今，在監管的推動下，ADAS 越來越對汽車行業構成挑戰。而如果你想成為一個5星級的NCAP，這種東西，那麼你必須嵌入一些ADAS功能。 ST是ADAS的合作夥伴。這就是我在腳本中所說的，當前這一代 ADAS（主要是 EyeQ4 和 EyeQ3）確實在實質性發展。第二個原因，我知道我們專注於碳化矽，但只有瑞薩和恩智浦。最重要的是，我們擁有更豐富的產品組合，更大的模擬、微控制器和 MEMS 產品組合。

Don't forget power. So IGBT, low-voltage MOSFET, high-voltage MOSFET, VIPower, more and more we are [perfecting] VIPower, which are very adapted device for the new architecture in this car. Our 2 competitors, okay, have not this kind of technology. So this is the 2 main reasons why we overperformed our peers. It is ADAS and the remaining portfolio we have in power, including the VIPower.

不要忘記權力。所以IGBT、低壓MOSFET、高壓MOSFET、VIPower，我們正在越來越多地[完善]VIPower，這些器件非常適合這款車的新架構。我們的兩個競爭對手，好吧，沒有這種技術。所以這是我們表現優於同行的兩個主要原因。這是 ADAS 和我們所擁有的其餘產品組合，包括 VIPower。

Very clear. And my follow-up question would be on AMS. I mean I expected the share loss happening in the second half of the year. And I was a bit surprised on the Q2 year-over-year decline. And more importantly, the margins that decreased significantly. So I understand the top line, you have some kind of drop-through, but can you explain a bit more what's going on in AMS this quarter, and also a margin bridge would be amazing?

非常清楚。我的後續問題是關於 AMS 的。我的意思是，我預計下半年會發生股票損失。我對第二季度的同比下降感到有點驚訝。更重要的是，利潤率大幅下降。所以我理解頂線，你有某種下降，但你能解釋一下本季度 AMS 發生的情況嗎？而且保證金橋樑會很棒嗎？

AMS from revenue, let's say, point of view, received a serious hit by Personal Electronics overall in Q2. I have to say, you know that smartphone, okay, this year overall will decrease. But more important, the inventory correction in Personal Electronics is going on, will still continue in Q3 as well.

從收入來看，AMS 在第二季度整體上受到了個人電子產品的嚴重打擊。我不得不說，你知道智能手機，好吧，今年整體會減少。但更重要的是，個人電子產品的庫存調整仍在繼續，並且在第三季度仍將持續。

On another side, AMS is also exposed to [order drive]. And order drive is in the computer verticals and computer peripheral is also, let's say, very weak. So certainly, this is really the 2 main reasons at this stage of the, let's say, decrease, significant decrease of AMS revenue year-over-year. But about margin, maybe, Lorenzo, you can comment?

另一方面，AMS也暴露於【訂單驅動】。訂單驅動力位於計算機垂直領域，而計算機外圍設備也非常薄弱。當然，這確實是現階段 AMS 收入同比大幅下降的兩個主要原因。但關於保證金，洛倫佐，你可以發表評論嗎？

At the end, let's say, this impact on the margin is mainly due to the volume. It's mainly due to the fact that, of course, our, let's say, level of top line is declining. And for sure, the leverage on our expenses is worsening in this group. I would say this is the main driver. Then, of course, it's also impacted by some, let's say, deterioration in our manufacturing, especially, let's say, related to the activity that is lower for our MEMS, for these kind of products. But the main driver of our operating margin is related to the fact that the volume decreased and the expense to sales ratio for sure, is worsening for this group.

最後，我們可以說，對利潤率的影響主要是由於交易量造成的。當然，這主要是因為我們的收入水平正在下降。可以肯定的是，這一群體的支出槓桿正在惡化。我想說這是主要驅動力。當然，它也會受到一些因素的影響，比如我們的製造質量下降，特別是與我們的 MEMS 此類產品的活動較低有關。但我們營業利潤率的主要驅動因素與銷量下降以及該群體的費用與銷售比率肯定正在惡化有關。

Next question, please.

請下一個問題。

The next question is from Aleksander Peterc from Societe Generale.

下一個問題來自法國興業銀行的 Aleksander Peterc。

My first question would be on inventory, which rose to 126 days. How would you qualify this level of inventory? Is it elevated and needs to be worked down in the second half? Or is it no more reflecting usual seasonality for your business? And I have a follow-up.

我的第一個問題是關於庫存，它的期限增加到了 126 天。您如何確定這一庫存水平？下半年是否有所上升並需要降低？或者它不再反映您業務的通常季節性？我有一個後續行動。

Lorenzo?

洛倫佐？

I take this question. But we judge this a little bit too high. It's true that in Q2 our inventory for seasonality is increasing. Anyway, let's say, at this stage, 126 days of inventory is on a little bit on the high side. This is also the reason why, in the second part of the year, as we have already anticipated, Q3 and Q4, we will reduce our activity, our production activity, especially on the fabs that are more exposed to Personal Electronics and the consumer. This will bring unloading and this unsaturation charges. And this is visible in our gross margin this quarter, where we are hit by 150 basis points of unloading in our guidance of 47.5%. If you take it out, this impact, we are more or less similar to the 1 of Q2 in terms of gross margin.

我接受這個問題。但我們的判斷有點太高了。確實，第二季度我們的季節性庫存正在增加。不管怎樣，就現階段來說，126天的庫存有點偏高了。這也是為什麼在今年下半年，正如我們已經預期的那樣，第三季度和第四季度，我們將減少我們的活動、我們的生產活動，特別是在更多接觸個人電子產品和消費者的晶圓廠。這將帶來卸載和不飽和費用。這從我們本季度的毛利率中可見一斑，我們的指導值為 47.5%，但卸載了 150 個基點。如果你把這個影響去掉的話，我們在毛利率方面或多或少與Q2的1類似。

And we finish the year, in terms of inventory?

就庫存而言，我們今年結束了嗎？

In terms of inventory, yes, thank you. We will -- with this, let's say, we think to bring down our inventory more in a range of 100, 110 days of inventory in respect to the 126. Thank you for the follow-up

在庫存方面，是的，謝謝。我們將 - 比方說，我們認為，相對於 126 天的庫存，我們將在 100 天、110 天的庫存範圍內進一步減少庫存。感謝您的跟進

My second question would be on smartphones. You talked about this already in your introductory remarks, there's lack of recovery, let's call it this way, so far. How would you qualify the market now? Do you see any evidence of any bottoming out of the smartphone market, particularly in China in the current quarter? Or is it too soon to call it?

我的第二個問題是關於智能手機的。您在介紹性發言中已經談到了這一點，到目前為止，還沒有恢復，讓我們這樣稱呼它。您現在如何確定市場資格？您是否看到智能手機市場觸底反彈的任何證據，尤其是本季度在中國的市場？或者現在打電話還為時過早嗎？

No, this is what I say. I think in terms of demand, the data point we have, looks like this year, the market, okay, with the demand of smartphone will slightly decrease, I think 1.5% or 2%, with still a changement of mix between the 4G and the 5G. The point is, this industry is still paying, last year, a strong decrease, minus 9%. And of course, the inventory, which has been built up, okay, last year are not yet digested. And this will continue in Q3. More so we hope, okay, progressively moving forward, Q4 and Q1 next year, to see first inventory digested and to be exposed to the [head] demand to the B2C demand of smartphone. So this is the scenario most likely, okay, we expect.

不，這就是我說的。我認為就需求而言，我們掌握的數據點看起來像今年，市場，好吧，智能手機的需求會略有下降，我認為 1.5％ 或 2％，4G 和 4G 之間的組合仍然存在變化5G。關鍵是，這個行業仍然在付出，去年大幅下降，負9%。當然，去年積累的庫存還沒有消化。這將在第三季度繼續。更重要的是，我們希望，明年第四季度和第一季度逐步向前邁進，看到第一批庫存得到消化，並接觸到智能手機 B2C 需求的[頭]需求。所以這是最有可能的情況，好吧，我們預計。

Thank you, Alex. Next question, please.

謝謝你，亞歷克斯。請下一個問題。

The next question is from Andrew Gardiner from Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗集團的安德魯·加德納。

Can I ask 1 on pricing, please. We covered this with first quarter results, but it would be great to have a real-time update here with Q2. Lorenzo, if I look at the gross margin guidance you've given, particularly as you just highlighted, adjusting for the underutilization charges, gross margin's flat into 3Q and still remaining strong into 4Q. It suggests to me that there hasn't been much change in pricing, but if you can just walk us through some of the moving parts there, that would be helpful. And then I do have a quick follow-up.

請問 1 價格可以嗎？我們在第一季度的業績中介紹了這一點，但如果能在第二季度的業績中進行實時更新那就太好了。洛倫佐，如果我看一下您給出的毛利率指導，特別是您剛才強調的，根據未充分利用費用進行調整，毛利率在第三季度持平，在第四季度仍然保持強勁。對我來說，這表明定價沒有太大變化，但如果您能向我們介紹一些變化的部分，那將會很有幫助。然後我確實進行了快速跟進。

No. We absolutely know no significant pricing impact sequentially Q3 versus Q2. Well, again, the gross margin dynamic, we have -- we will move clearly from 49% in Q2 to 47.5% in Q3, but it is impacted by the unused capacity. So in fact, okay, in Q3, basically, without this new capacity that we have decided by ourselves, okay, to decrease inventory level described by Lorenzo a few minute ago, our gross margin is still ballpark at 49%. For all the other effect, okay, you know that our input parameter like the product mix, the pricing, the manufacturing efficiency, all these parameters offset each other. So no, Q3, okay, we don't see any significant impact on the pricing.

不會。我們絕對知道第三季度與第二季度相比不會對價格產生重大影響。嗯，再說一遍，毛利率動態，我們將明顯從第二季度的 49% 上升到第三季度的 47.5%，但它受到未使用產能的影響。所以事實上，好吧，在第三季度，基本上，如果沒有我們自己決定的新產能，好吧，降低洛倫佐幾分鐘前描述的庫存水平，我們的毛利率仍然約為 49%。對於所有其他影響，好吧，你知道我們的輸入參數，如產品組合、定價、製造效率，所有這些參數都是相互抵消的。所以不，第三季度，好吧，我們沒有看到對定價有任何重大影響。

And actually just related to that quickly, how much is the Agrate 300-millimeter fab ramp a headwind in 3Q?

實際上與此相關的是，Agrate 300 毫米晶圓廠產能在第三季度的阻力有多大？

Agrate in Q3, okay, has been included in the manufacturing efficiency, okay, as the 8-inch, which are, let's say, exposed to consumer, but Lorenzo, you...

第三季度的磨石，好吧，已經包含在製造效率中，好吧，就像 8 英寸一樣，可以說，暴露給消費者，但是洛倫佐，你......

In Q3 started to be, let's say, increasing, but is not yet very significant. It will be a little bit more during Q4 because, of course, the activity will start to be more visible. As we said, let's say, this is one of the factor of our second half gross margin, manufacturing overall and, let's say, the impact of the Agrate are, let's say, the main drivers of the declining, of course, together with the unloading charges, now this is obvious, but of our gross margin in the second half of the year. But still is not, let's say, super strong. It's not yet, let's say -- is part of this degradation, but it's not yet in Q3 so visible.

可以說，第三季度開始增加，但還不是很顯著。第四季度的數量會更多一些，因為當然，活動將開始變得更加明顯。正如我們所說，這是我們下半年毛利率、製造業整體毛利率的因素之一，比如說，Agrate 的影響是毛利率下降的主要驅動因素，當然，還有卸貨費用，現在這是顯而易見的，但是我們下半年的毛利率。但可以說，仍然不是超級強。可以說，這還不是這種退化的一部分，但在第三季度還沒有那麼明顯。

Okay. And then sorry, just a quick clarification. Jean-Marc, you gave us the sort of adjustments related to the product mix and the customer program in 3Q, saying that instead of 1% year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter, it would be sort of low to mid-3% on both those sort of year-on-year and Q-on-Q. Rough math, that's sort of $80 million, $90 million worth of impact.

好的。抱歉，請快速澄清一下。 Jean-Marc，您向我們介紹了第三季度與產品組合和客戶計劃相關的調整，表示同比和環比不是 1%，而是低至中水平。同比和環比均為 3%。粗略算一下，這相當於價值 8000 萬至 9000 萬美元的影響。

Earlier in the year, you thought it was going to be $500 million in the second half. Is there -- and I admit you broke up a little bit on my line in terms of when you were talking about the full year impact. Are you saying that sort of more of the impact is in 4Q? Or is it actually less than you had previously anticipated?

今年早些時候，您認為下半年將達到 5 億美元。我承認，當您談論全年影響時，我的台詞有點中斷。您是說第四季度的影響更大嗎？或者實際上比您之前預期的要少？

Well, it's a bit less than anticipated, but it is still very material because, again, I repeat this module we accepted to support our important customer. The revenue was really concentrated on H2 2022 and H1 2023. And basically, this appear in, let's say, Q3 and Q4 2023. The difference between H2 2023 and H2 2022 impacted by this -- by the device is a multi-hundred million dollar, below the number I gave in April, yes, it's below, but multi-hundred million dollar. That's the reason why, okay, if you make the math, we have confirmed this number of a significant change in the revenue dynamic H2 2023 versus H2 2022.

嗯，它比預期的要少一些，但它仍然非常重要，因為我再次重複我們為支持我們的重要客戶而接受的這個模塊。收入實際上集中在 2022 年下半年和 2023 年上半年。基本上，這齣現在 2023 年第三季度和第四季度。受此影響（受設備影響）的 2023 年下半年和 2022 年下半年之間的差異是數億美元，低於我四月份給出的數字，是的，低於，但數億美元。這就是為什麼，好吧，如果你算一下，我們已經確認 2023 年下半年的收入動態與 2022 年下半年相比發生了重大變化。

And I have to say, in Q4, if you make the math at the midpoint, it's more important. Because if you compute our Q4 at the midpoint of $17.4 billion, it's a growth H2 Q4 '23 versus Q4 '22 of 0.7%. Corrected by this module, the growth is [7%]. So it's really material. But the impact, difference H2 to H2 is multi-hundred million dollar below the number I gave in April.

我不得不說，在第四季度，如果你在中點進行數學計算，那就更重要了。因為如果您以 174 億美元的中值計算第四季度，那麼 23 年第四季度下半年與 22 年第四季度相比增長了 0.7%。經該模塊修正後，增長為[7%]。所以它真的很物質。但影響，H2 與 H2 之間的差異比我在 4 月份給出的數字低了數億美元。

Thank you, Andrew. Next question, please.

謝謝你，安德魯。請下一個問題。

The next question is from Josh Buchalter from TD Cowen.

下一個問題來自 TD Cowen 的 Josh Buchalter。

I wanted to ask about gross margin as well. So the guidance implies sort of a very modest decline from the third quarter to the fourth quarter. I think you previously called out 3 drivers of half-over-half declines of the start-up costs under your utilization charges and mix. It all seems like those should be peaking around the fourth quarter. Is that the right interpretation? And I guess, is there any reason why the fourth quarter wouldn't sort of be the trough of gross margins as you see things right now, assuming again stable market conditions?

我也想問一下毛利率。因此，該指導意味著第三季度到第四季度的下降非常小。我認為您之前指出了使用費和組合下啟動成本下降一半以上的 3 個驅動因素。看起來這些應該在第四季度左右達到頂峰。這是正確的解釋嗎？我想，假設市場條件再次穩定，有什麼理由可以解釋為什麼第四季度不會像你現在看到的那樣成為毛利率的低谷嗎？

At the end, let's say, when we look at the H2, the gross margin that we will have in average in H2 will be slightly above 47%. And this is impacted by more than 100 basis points of temporary unused capacity charges. Then at the end, let's say, the remaining 100 basis point of decline in compared to H1 are due to the full impact of our manufacturing increased input cost, as we said many times, that we will, let's say, be very, very, let's say, visible in the second part of the year, and the main part of the ramp-up of the Agrate 300 millimeter. I would say these are the key ingredients for our dynamic of our gross margin.

最後，讓我們看看下半年，我們下半年的平均毛利率將略高於 47%。這受到超過 100 個基點的臨時未使用容量費用的影響。最後，與上半年相比，剩下的 100 個基點的下降是由於我們的製造投入成本增加的全面影響，正如我們多次說過的，我們將非常非常，比方說，今年下半年可見，Agrate 300 毫米的主要增長部分。我想說，這些是我們毛利率動態的關鍵因素。

Got it. Just want to follow up, I was hoping to ask about silicon carbide. Any color you could provide on the JV announcement in China in particular, how much capacity are you expecting to get out of that? And what's your confidence in being able to get enough volumes of 200-millimeter wafers from your partner there?

知道了。只是想跟進，我想問一下有關碳化矽的問題。對於在中國的合資企業公告，您能提供什麼具體信息嗎？您希望從中獲得多少產能？您對能夠從那裡的合作夥伴那裡獲得足夠數量的 200 毫米晶圓有什麼信心？

So the capacity at the full buildout will be 10,000 wafer per week 200-millimeter in 2028. The confidence level on 200-millimeter is very high. because, okay, they have a process we know very well. Because, okay, this process is similar to our process of Nortel, never forget that we bought Nortel, from [Canada]. And we know exactly our process, and we know that our equipment, which has been designed for 200-millimeter in Nortel, okay, do not represent any specialty difficulties, okay, to move to 200-millimeter (inaudible) equipment, which has been designed purposely only for 150-millimeter. So no, our confidence level is very high. So that's the reason why we have done this deal.

因此，到 2028 年，200 毫米全面擴建後的產能將達到每週 10,000 片晶圓。對 200 毫米的信心水平非常高。因為，好吧，他們有一個我們非常熟悉的流程。因為，好吧，這個過程類似於我們的 Nortel 過程，永遠不要忘記我們從[加拿大]購買了 Nortel。我們確切地知道我們的流程，我們知道我們的設備是為北電的 200 毫米設計的，好吧，不代表任何專業困難，好吧，轉移到 200 毫米（聽不清）設備，這已經是專為 150 毫米而設計。所以不，我們的信心非常高。這就是我們完成這筆交易的原因。

Thank you, very much. Next question, please.

非常感謝。請下一個問題。

Next question is from Lee Simpson from Morgan Stanley.

下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的李·辛普森。

Just a couple of classification questions really. You mentioned at the top there, OpEx, I think, around about $80 million, $90 million going into the second half. Just trying to maybe break out or clarify any changes in other income, particularly as we look at the start-up costs on Agrate should be moving out of other income and into COGS. But are we allowing for that in that overall number? That's my first question. I've got a quick follow-up.

實際上只是幾個分類問題。您在頂部提到了運營支出，我認為約為 8000 萬美元，下半年將達到 9000 萬美元。只是想打破或澄清其他收入的任何變化，特別是當我們考慮 Agrate 的啟動成本時，應該從其他收入轉移到銷貨成本。但我們是否在這個總數中考慮到了這一點？這是我的第一個問題。我有一個快速跟進。

No. As I said before, let's say, what we see in the third quarter in terms of expenses and net expenses is in the range of [$880 million, $890 million]. This is for the third quarter. a little bit higher, we will be in the next quarter in Q4 in terms of expenses due to seasonality. In terms of other income and expenses in Q3, we will have a benefit coming from the R&D grants that were not, let's say, in the first 2 quarters of this year due to the fact that all not the conventions that we needed to have signed were ready in order to be recognized where, let's say, there because the agreement was already done. But the point is that we needed to have the documentation, as you can easily understand. And this will be done during this quarter.

不。正如我之前所說，我們在第三季度看到的費用和淨費用在 [8.8 億美元，8.9 億美元] 範圍內。這是第三季度的情況。稍微高一點，由於季節性原因，我們將在第四季度的下一個季度的費用方面進行調整。就第三季度的其他收入和支出而言，我們將受益於今年前兩個季度沒有的研發撥款，因為所有這些都不是我們需要簽署的公約我們已經準備好以便在哪裡得到認可，比如說，在那裡，因為協議已經達成。但重點是我們需要有文檔，您可以輕鬆理解。這將在本季度完成。

So at the end, this will be the dynamic. In terms of other income and expenses this year, our expectation is to be overall in the year positive $70 million, $80 million as slightly above what was my indication entering the year. So it will be a little bit better in this respect.

所以最後，這將是動態的。就今年的其他收入和支出而言，我們的預期是今年總體收入為 7000 萬美元，8000 萬美元略高於我今年的預期。所以在這方面會好一點。

In terms of -- yes, in terms of start-up costs, these other income and expenses are impacted by the start-up cost of a Agrate 300, but the start-up cost progressively will become a manufacturing cost, let's say. And here, of course, there is on the other side, the fact that we are going to start to produce wafers. So it will not be a pure cost. It will be also contributing to our top line this activity. For sure, at the beginning, the 300-millimeter will have an efficiency that is not the best. This is clear. The manufacturing efficiency of this fab will progressively improve in the course of next year.

是的，就啟動成本而言，這些其他收入和支出受到 Agrate 300 啟動成本的影響，但可以說，啟動成本將逐漸成為製造成本。當然，另一方面，我們將開始生產晶圓。所以這不會是純粹的成本。這也將為我們這項活動的營收做出貢獻。當然，一開始300毫米的效率並不是最好的。這很清楚。該工廠的生產效率將在明年逐步提高。

That's quite clear. Jean-Marc, I think you were also very clear on some of the rationale around the Sanan JV, particularly as it sort of carries on from the design understanding of the work at least that Nortel would have done prior inside Sanan, but it does seem to just gel a little awkwardly with your stated aim to verticalize supply, move more things internally for silicon carbide. And also, it stands out a little bit to me that you've involved yourself in a bit of a tech transfer. Admittedly, it brings in your back-end business quite nicely. But I wonder if you could just maybe talk through a little more broadly the rationale for this JV, particularly from that tech transfer risk and really as it works with your existing strategy for internalization?

這很清楚。 Jean-Marc，我認為您對三安合資企業的一些基本原理也非常清楚，特別是因為它是從對工作的設計理解中進行的，至少是北電之前在三安內部所做的工作，但它似乎確實如此為了與你既定的垂直化供應目標結合起來有點尷尬，請在內部轉移更多碳化矽的東西。而且，對我來說，你參與了一些技術轉讓，這一點很突出。不可否認，它很好地引入了你的後端業務。但我想知道您是否可以更廣泛地談談該合資企業的基本原理，特別是技術轉讓風險以及它是否與您現有的內部化戰略相結合？

The technology transfer, okay. I would like to be very clear. This JV is a foundry, and this foundry will work exclusively for ST. So it's exactly the same model that is still used, okay, of an [EDM] transferring technology to a foundry for its exclusivity usage. So this is this model, okay? Clearly, so there is absolutely no transfer of IP. There is no license, there is nothing. It's a transfer of manufacturing process in a foundry that will work exclusively for us to address vertically the Chinese market, which is booming. I know it's -- there is a common consensus that the electrical car in China. But as important, the related infrastructure, so loading charges, fast-charger loading charges in residential, then hold the power and energy related to the renewable energy, because of the strong decarbonization in China, all these markets will move in the near future.

技術轉讓，好吧。我想說得很清楚。該合資企業是一家代工廠，該代工廠將專門為ST代工。因此，這與仍在使用的[EDM] 模型完全相同，將技術轉移到鑄造廠以獲取其專有使用權。這就是這個模型，好嗎？顯然，所以絕對不存在IP轉讓。沒有許可證，什麼都沒有。這是鑄造廠製造工藝的轉移，將專門為我們服務，以垂直解決蓬勃發展的中國市場的問題。我知道，中國的電動汽車是一個共同的共識。但同樣重要的是，相關的基礎設施，例如住宅充電費、快速充電樁充電費，以及與可再生能源相關的電力和能源，由於中國大力脫碳，所有這些市場都將在不久的將來發生變化。

And it's important for ST to address, okay, this market with a local production end to end. So from the wafer epitaxy, wafer processing, wafer sort, assembly and test. For assembly and test, of course, we will leverage our long-lasting JV we have in Shenzhen, called STS, that will assemble and will test our product. So the rationale is point #1, this market will be the fastest growth market in the field of electrification and decarbonization. We want to address locally this market, okay, end-to-end. So that's the reason why with this well-known partner Sanan, we have set up a JV working as a foundry exclusively for us. And we will transfer our production process, not IP, that will be processed for us and assembled in our factories.

對於 ST 來說，通過端到端的本地生產來應對這個市場非常重要。所以從晶圓外延、晶圓加工、晶圓分類、組裝和測試。當然，對於組裝和測試，我們將利用我們在深圳的長期合資企業 STS，該公司將組裝並測試我們的產品。所以理由是第一點，這個市場將是電氣化和脫碳領域增長最快的市場。我們希望在本地解決這個市場，好吧，端到端的。因此，我們與知名合作夥伴三安成立了一家合資企業，專門為我們代工。我們將轉移我們的生產流程，而不是知識產權，這些流程將為我們加工並在我們的工廠組裝。

Yes, that's a great response?

是的，這是一個很好的回應？

Thank you. so next question, please, Moira.

謝謝。請下一個問題，莫伊拉。

The next question is from Didier Scemama from Bank of America.

下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Didier Scemama。

Actually, I just wanted to go back to a question that was asked previously. Lorenzo, you said on the last earnings call that there would be 300 basis points of gross margin contraction H-on-H in the second half and of which 100 basis points is pricing pressure, 100 basis points is input cost and 100 basis points is under loading of the fab. So can you reconcile what is the -- what are the new components of that H2 gross margin?

其實我只是想回到之前問過的一個問題。洛倫佐，您在上次財報電話會議上表示，下半年毛利率將環比收縮 300 個基點，其中 100 個基點是定價壓力，100 個基點是投入成本，100 個基點是成本壓力。在晶圓廠的負載下。那麼，您能否協調一下下半年毛利率的新組成部分是什麼？

And then related to that, and again, the question was asked, but was not really answered. Is there a scenario where your first half gross margin in 2024 is actually lower than the second half of this year? And I've got a follow-up.

然後與此相關的是，問題再次被提出，但沒有得到真正的回答。有沒有一種情況，你們2024年上半年毛利率實際上低於今年下半年？我還有後續行動。

In term of dynamic of the gross margin, I would say that you see that our indication for the year is now, let's say, exceeding the 48% gross margin. That means that, today, let's say, in term of impact of pricing, we don't see any significant, let's say, impact. As we were saying before, let's say, also Jean-Marc, this was the dynamic seen in Q3 and Q2 moving forward. So at the end, I would say that, as I was saying before, the second half of the year will be mainly impacted by 2 components. Let's say, the first 1 is the unloading charges. This is clearly something that is driven by the fact that we want to control our inventory. And here, today, the visibility is that this impact will be slightly above the 100 basis point. The remaining is mainly impacted by the impact of the manufacturing efficiency and this impact of the 300-millimeter. Mix price and the other substantially offset each other. So at the end, these are the main drivers that, today, visibility is giving to us.

就毛利率的動態而言，我想說的是，你會看到我們今年的指標現在超過了 48% 的毛利率。這意味著，今天，就定價的影響而言，我們沒有看到任何重大的影響。正如我們之前所說，讓-馬克也說過，這就是第三季度和第二季度的動態。所以最後，我想說，正如我之前所說，下半年將主要受到兩個因素的影響。比如說，第1個是卸貨費。這顯然是由我們想要控制庫存這一事實驅動的。今天，可以預見的是，這種影響將略高於 100 個基點。剩下的主要是受到製造效率的影響和300毫米的這個影響。混合價格與其他價格實質上相互抵消。最後，這些是今天可見性給我們帶來的主要驅動力。

This is clearly -- the baseline, the solid baseline we have in our [end], so 48%, it is what I communicated in April as well. And this is totally consistent, okay, with our trajectory to reach a 50% gross margin associated with our $20 billion plus revenue ambition in '25, '27.

這顯然是基線，我們[最終]擁有的可靠基線，所以 48%，這也是我在 4 月份傳達的內容。這與我們在 25 年、27 年實現 200 億美元以上收入目標相關的 50% 毛利率的軌跡完全一致。

So 48% is the baseline going forward, interesting. I wondered if you could give us an update also on our grade 300-millimeter ramp and on Catania silicon carbide. And what I mean by that is, could you give us a sense of the time line through which those fabs, maybe individually, will contribute to gross margin positively? If that's the second half of next year or if it's further out?

所以 48% 是未來的基線，很有趣。我想知道您能否向我們介紹我們的 300 毫米級坡道和卡塔尼亞碳化矽的最新情況。我的意思是，您能否讓我們了解一下這些晶圓廠（也許是個別晶圓廠）將對毛利率做出積極貢獻的時間線？是明年下半年還是更晚的時間？

So on silicon carbide, first of all, in Catania and Singapore, we are increasing continuously our capacity. And I repeat this year, okay, we will deliver about $1.2 billion revenue, and we have the ambition to be at $2 billion in 2025. So this is already contributing, let's say, to our operating margin, okay, because it's MOSFET. Never forget that the MOSFET has not the gross margin of MCU or digital IC.

因此，在碳化矽方面，首先在卡塔尼亞和新加坡，我們正在不斷增加我們的產能。我今年再說一遍，好吧，我們將實現約 12 億美元的收入，我們的目標是在 2025 年達到 20 億美元。所以這已經為我們的營業利潤率做出了貢獻，好吧，因為它是 MOSFET。永遠不要忘記MOSFET沒有MCU或數字IC的毛利率。

Okay, the internal supply, we target to have 40% internal supply as a run rate. It will happen end of 2024, and will, let's say, significantly impact our cost starting 2025, yes.

好的，內部供應，我們的目標是 40% 的內部供應作為運行率。這將在 2024 年底發生，並且可以說，將從 2025 年開始對我們的成本產生重大影響，是的。

And for Agrate?

那麼阿格拉特呢？

And then for Agrate. So for Agrate today that we are sticking with our plan. So we have installed capacity basically about 1,000 wafer per week, which is linked to the single of kind (inaudible) we have installed. We have qualified our [fab finder] technology. Yields are very similar than Crolles, which is a great news, and we are starting to ramp up. Again, the objective from this 1,000 wafer per week is to achieve by end of '25 [the highest] full buildout of what we have targeted in association with [that].

然後是阿格拉特。因此，對於今天的 Agrate，我們堅持我們的計劃。因此，我們的裝機容量基本上約為每週 1,000 片晶圓，這與我們安裝的單一類型（聽不清）有關。我們已經驗證了我們的 [fab finder] 技術。產量與 Crolles 非常相似，這是一個好消息，我們正在開始提高產量。同樣，每週生產 1,000 片晶圓的目標是到 25 年底實現我們與此相關的目標的[最高]全面建設。

We think that already in the second part of next year, Agrate will start to contribute...

我們認為，在明年下半年，Agrate 將開始做出貢獻......

To the cost margin and the gross margin.

到成本利潤率和毛利率。

[Not to be declined].

[不得拒絕]。

Very well. And just a quick follow-up, like a quick one, if I may. On the Sanan JV, I mean, I think the concern that everybody got is that the track record of Western companies I have covered in the past having JVs in China is not great because #1, your cash is trapped in China; and #2, if something happens from an IP perspective, it's very difficult to actually get reimbursed or at least to have some compensation. So I think what sort of assurances did you get, or can you give us that this is not going to end up badly for ST and ST shareholders?

很好。如果可以的話，只是快速跟進，就像快速跟進一樣。關於三安合資企業，我認為每個人都擔心的是，我過去報導過的西方公司在中國設立合資企業的記錄並不好，因為第一，你的現金被困在中國； ＃2，如果從知識產權角度來看發生了什麼事，那麼實際上很難得到補償或至少得到一些補償。所以我想你得到了什麼樣的保證，或者你能給我們什麼樣的保證，這對ST和ST股東來說不會有糟糕的結局？

First of all, sorry to be a bit, let's say, trite. We have a JV in China since more than 30 years. And [EGD], okay, of assembly and test is basically certainly 1 of the most performing assembly and test plant in the world. They always performed at our expectation. We never face any specific issue. They were very resilient during the COVID period. So we have this experience. And then from the financial flow, maybe, Lorenzo, okay, you...

首先，抱歉，有點陳詞濫調。我們在中國成立合資企業已有 30 多年的歷史。 [EGD]，好的，裝配和測試工廠基本上肯定是世界上性能最好的裝配和測試工廠之一。他們的表現總是符合我們的期望。我們從來沒有遇到任何具體問題。他們在新冠疫情期間非常有韌性。所以我們有這樣的經歷。然後從資金流來看，也許，洛倫佐，好吧，你......

I mean we are not so worried in the sense that, as I said, as Jean-Marc was saying, let's say, we have the experience. So we know how to handle. We know how to not to fall in a situation in which we may have a problem in term of repatriating cash. It's 30 years that we work in China with a JV. To be honest, today, we don't have -- we are not facing this kind of problem with this JV. I do think that we will be able to manage similarly with Sanan as repeated. We have some experience. We work, we structured in a way that at the end it's not creating a major risk in this respect. And also...

我的意思是，我們並不那麼擔心，正如我所說，正如讓-馬克所說，我們有經驗。這樣我們就知道如何處理了。我們知道如何避免陷入現金匯回方面可能出現問題的情況。我們與一家合資企業在中國合作已經30年了。老實說，今天，我們的合資企業沒有遇到此類問題。我確實認為我們將能夠像重複的那樣對薩南進行類似的管理。我們有一些經驗。我們的工作和結構方式最終不會在這方面造成重大風險。並且...

[And also not very much cost.]

[而且成本也不是很高。]

[Not also major cost.]

[也不是主要成本。]

We have time for one last question, Moira.

我們還有時間回答最後一個問題，莫伊拉。

Last question is from Johannes Schaller from Deutsche Bank.

最後一個問題來自德意志銀行的 Johannes Schaller。

The first 1 is on Agrate again. I mean you have a pretty wide range of products and end market applications you can address with that fab. Can you maybe give us a bit of an update what you are targeting initially for the ramp in the second half of this year and then obviously more into next year when volumes are starting, which kind of products, which kind of end markets? And then as a second question, not just 1 of your competitors has talked a bit more about gallium nitride in the first half of this year. There were a few others making comments as well. Can you just give us a bit of an update on your strategy and on your road map on the GaN side here and which end applications you think are the most interesting for ST?

第一個 1 又出現在 Agrate 上。我的意思是，您可以通過該晶圓廠解決相當廣泛的產品和終端市場應用。您能否給我們一些最新信息，您最初的目標是今年下半年的增長，然後顯然是明年銷量開始時的目標，哪種產品，哪種終端市場？作為第二個問題，今年上半年，不僅僅是你們的競爭對手之一更多地談論了氮化鎵。還有其他一些人也發表了評論。您能否向我們介紹一下您在 GaN 方面的戰略和路線圖的最新情況，以及您認為 ST 最感興趣的終端應用？

So Agrate submission is a mix around analog, analog with either analog with digital content to address, let's say, personal electronics and computer and communication. This main advantage is to, let's say, structurally long term as volume, important volume. Of course, okay, there is -- short term is a bit challenging, but structurally, okay, this is what we want. And then the complementary mission of Agrate is analog for automotive and industrial. So at the end, we want -- our strategy is to build Agrate capable to address basically the 4 verticals we had in order to guarantee a long-term sustainable and stable loading. So first, of course, we start with the consumer and personal electronics because we go very fast in the qualification. You know that for Automotive, it's taken more time, and it is followed by Industrial. So this is the mix of what the fab will manage, analog with digital content and/or with more power content to address Automotive and Industrial.

因此，Agrate 提交內容是模擬、模擬與模擬與數字內容的混合，以解決個人電子產品、計算機和通信等問題。可以說，這個主要優勢是，從結構上看，長期來看，成交量是重要的成交量。當然，好吧，短期是有點挑戰，但從結構上來說，好吧，這就是我們想要的。 Agrate 的補充使命是模擬汽車和工業。所以最後，我們希望——我們的策略是建立 Agrate 能夠基本上解決我們擁有的 4 個垂直領域的問題，以保證長期可持續和穩定的負載。當然，首先我們從消費和個人電子產品開始，因為我們的資格認證進展得非常快。你知道，對於汽車行業來說，需要更多的時間，其次是工業行業。因此，這是晶圓廠將管理的內容的組合，模擬與數字內容和/或更多功率內容，以解決汽車和工業問題。

And then for GaN?

那麼 GaN 呢？

The GaN, GaN strategy. First of all, I would like to repeat, we strongly believe at ST that the successful leader in the field of power energy are companies which are capable to control the wide portfolio of technology, okay? Again, from a low-voltage, high-voltage MOSFET, vertical integrated power, IGBT, GaN, MOSFET and silicon carbide and modules. So this is our strategy.

GaN，GaN 戰略。首先，我想重複一遍，我們ST堅信，電力能源領域的成功領導者是有能力控制廣泛技術組合的公司，好嗎？再次，從低壓、高壓MOSFET、垂直集成功率、IGBT、GaN、MOSFET以及碳化矽和模塊。這就是我們的策略。

We started very fast on GaN to address, let's say, the consumer market, basically, the fast charger of, let's say, personal electronics and computer. And in order to go fast, okay, we are using the technology of (inaudible). And we have already, okay, business link to this technology and to customers, okay, enabling fast charger in the field of personal electronics.

我們很快就開始開發 GaN，以滿足消費市場的需求，基本上是個人電子產品和計算機的快速充電器。為了更快，好吧，我們正在使用（聽不清）的技術。我們已經與這項技術和客戶建立了業務聯繫，在個人電子產品領域實現了快速充電器。

In parallel, we are developing GaN MOSFET to address both the power and energy market for investors. And this technology is in development (inaudible) where we have set up 8-inch line and where we have a strategy to build in the future, okay, our 8-inch capability to address massively this market. Well, then last but not the least, we have 2 other blocks where we intend to play a role. It is to address the radio frequency product. So with [GaN this year], based on our technology, GaN [and MOSFET] that will be processed in Catania. And the latest 1 is what we call smart integrated GaN, where it's -- we mix [a BCD] driver with an advanced controller and, again, MOSFET.

與此同時，我們正在開發 GaN MOSFET，以滿足投資者的電力和能源市場需求。這項技術正在開發中（聽不清），我們已經建立了 8 英寸生產線，並且我們制定了未來建立的戰略，好吧，我們的 8 英寸能力可以大規模滿足這個市場的需求。好吧，最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我們還有另外兩個方面打算發揮作用。是針對射頻產品。因此，今年的 [GaN] 基於我們的技術，GaN [和 MOSFET] 將在卡塔尼亞加工。最新的 1 就是我們所說的智能集成 GaN，我們將 [BCD] 驅動器與高級控制器以及 MOSFET 混合在一起。

So as a takeaway, we say we started very fast with the STM32 technology to address the consumer market with fast charger. Now in parallel, we are developing our technology to address the power GaN MOSFET mainly to address investor for industrial market. We complement this strategy with (inaudible) on our own technology. And then we merged this technology with BCD to develop what we call Smart Integrated GaN, which will be a very efficient technology to address multiple industrial applications.

因此，我們可以說，我們很快就開始採用 STM32 技術，通過快速充電器來滿足消費市場的需求。現在，我們正在同時開發功率 GaN MOSFET 的技術，主要是為了滿足工業市場的投資者的需求。我們用（聽不清）我們自己的技術來補充這一戰略。然後我們將這項技術與 BCD 相結合，開發出我們所說的智能集成 GaN，這將是一種非常有效的技術，可以滿足多種工業應用的需求。

And I think this concludes our call. It was the last question. Moira?

我認為我們的通話到此結束。這是最後一個問題。莫伊拉？

That was the last question. Would you like to conclude the call then?

這是最後一個問題。您想結束通話嗎？

Yes, please.

是的，請。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus Call, and thank you for participating in the conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Goodbye.

女士們、先生們，會議現在結束了。感謝您選擇 Chorus Call，也感謝您參加本次會議。您現在可以斷開線路。再見。