西蒙地產 (SPG) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings. Welcome to Simon Property Group's first-quarter 2026 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this conference is being recorded.

各位好。歡迎參加西蒙地產集團（Simon Property Group）2026 年第一季財報電話會議。(操作員指示) 請注意，本次會議將被錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to Tom Ward, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations. Thank you. You may begin.

現在我將把會議交給投資人關係資深副總裁 Tom Ward。謝謝。您可以開始了。

Thank you, [Cheri], and thank you all for joining us this evening. Presenting on today's call are Eli Simon, Chief Executive Officer, President, Chief Operating Officer; and Brian McDade, Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝您，[Cheri]，也感謝各位今晚加入我們。今天出席本次電話會議的有：執行長、總裁兼營運長 Eli Simon，以及財務長 Brian McDade。

A quick reminder that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, and actual results may differ materially due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. We refer you to today's press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of the risk factors relating to those forward-looking statements.

提醒各位，本次電話會議中的陳述可能構成 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款所定義的前瞻性陳述；由於各種風險、不確定性及其他因素，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述有重大差異。關於與該等前瞻性陳述相關之風險因素的詳細討論，請參閱我們今日的新聞稿及向 SEC 提交的文件。

Please note that this call includes information that may be accurate only as of today's date. Reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures and the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included within the press release and the supplemental information in today's Form 8-K filing. Both the press release and the supplemental information are available on our IR website at investors.simon.com. (Operator Instructions)

請注意，本次電話會議所包含的資訊可能僅截至今日為準確。非 GAAP 財務衡量指標與最直接可比 GAAP 指標之調節表，已包含於新聞稿以及今日提交之 Form 8-K 附加資訊中。新聞稿與附加資訊皆可於我們的投資人關係網站 investors.simon.com 取得。(操作員指示)

May I please introduce Eli Simon?

現在為各位介紹 Eli Simon。

Good evening. I want to start by thanking all those who sent kind notes following my father's passing. His impact on our company and our industry is truly powerful.

各位晚安。我想先感謝所有在我父親過世後寄來慰問訊息的人。他對我們公司以及整個產業的影響確實深遠而強大。

Turning to the quarter, we're off to a very good start for 2026, with first-quarter results that exceeded our plan. Occupancy gains, increased shopper traffic, and higher retailer sales drove strong cash flow growth in the quarter, reflecting solid fundamentals across all our platforms, the resilience of the consumer, and the strength and breadth of tenant demand we have for our centers. Retailer demand remains broad-based, spanning new and legacy retailers across a wide range of categories and all of our platforms and geographies.

回到本季表現，我們在 2026 年有一個非常好的開局，第一季結果超出我們的計畫。入住率提升、來客人流增加以及零售商銷售成長，帶動本季強勁的現金流成長，反映我們各平台穩健的基本面、消費者的韌性，以及我們各中心強勁且廣泛的租戶需求。零售商需求仍然相當廣泛，涵蓋各類別的新進與既有零售商，並遍及我們所有平台與地理區域。

During the first quarter, we signed more than 1,100 leases, totaling over 4.7 million square feet. Approximately 25% of our leasing volume in the quarter was new deals. We have completed more than 75% of our 2026 expirations and are ahead of where we were at this time last year. We have a robust and expanding pipeline of deals that is significantly larger than this time last year, reflecting continued demand from a diverse mix of tenants.

第一季期間，我們簽署了超過 1,100 份租約，總面積超過 470 萬平方英尺。本季約 25% 的租賃量來自新交易。我們已完成 2026 年到期租約的 75% 以上，進度領先去年同期。我們的交易管線強勁且持續擴大，規模顯著高於去年同期，反映來自多元租戶組合的持續需求。

Now turning to development and redevelopment activity. We have projects under construction at 29 centers, with our share of net cost of $1.06 billion. At a blended yield of 9%. Approximately 50% of the net cost is for mixed-use projects, including approximately 1,200 units of multifamily residential at Brea Mall, Briarwood Mall and Northgate, and more than 400 hotel keys at Northshore Mall, Roosevelt Field and The Domain.

接著談開發與再開發活動。我們在 29 個中心有在建工程，我們分攤的淨成本為 10.6 億美元。綜合殖利率為 9%。淨成本約 50% 用於複合式用途專案，包括在 Brea Mall、Briarwood Mall 與 Northgate 約 1,200 戶多戶型住宅，以及在 Northshore Mall、Roosevelt Field 與 The Domain 超過 400 間飯店客房（keys）。

We also have exciting redevelopments of former anchor boxes underway at Brea Mall and The Fashion Mall at Keystone, where we'll be adding more productive new retail, restaurants, entertainment, and fitness uses. We have an additional $1 billion of projects, so we'll have the ability to start construction this year, including new developments, anchor redevelopments, and international redevelopments and expansions.

我們也正在 Brea Mall 與 The Fashion Mall at Keystone 對原主力店（anchor）空間進行令人振奮的再開發，將新增更具生產力的新零售、餐飲、娛樂與健身用途。我們另有 10 億美元的專案，使我們有能力在今年啟動施工，包括新開發、主力店再開發，以及國際再開發與擴建。

Beyond that, we have approximately $3 billion of projects in our pipeline that could start over the next several years, investments still make our great centers even better. All of these projects will be funded from internally generated cash flow and we will maintain our track record of discipline and how we allocate capital, rigorously evaluating each project against our return thresholds.

此外，我們的管線中約有 30 億美元的專案，可能在未來數年陸續啟動，這些投資將使我們優質的中心變得更好。所有專案將以內部產生的現金流支應，我們也將維持一貫的紀律資本配置紀錄，嚴格以報酬門檻評估每一個專案。

We have complete flexibility in our development pipeline. We can be patient and adjust timing depending on construction costs or market conditions. We can also invest counter-cyclically, delivering products when others can't. These accretive development and redevelopment activities deliver strong yields, enhance our portfolio, and drive long-term growth in cash flow, FFO, and dividends per share.

我們在開發管線上具備完全的彈性。我們可以保持耐心，並依施工成本或市場狀況調整時程。我們也能逆勢投資，在他人無法交付產品時推出供給。這些具增益性的開發與再開發活動可帶來強勁殖利率、提升我們的資產組合，並推動現金流、FFO 與每股股利的長期成長。

Moving on now to retailer sales. Malls and premium outlets were $819 per square foot in the quarter, up 11.8%. More importantly, sales growth accelerated. Total sales volume increased 5.6% over the trailing 12 months and 8.8% in the quarter, with comparable sales growth of 6.5% for the first quarter. Our re-merchandising efforts are clearly showing through in total sales volumes with strong growth across our portfolio and across categories such as luxury, jewelry, athleisure and juniors.

接下來談零售商銷售。本季購物中心與高端暢貨中心（premium outlets）每平方英尺銷售額為 819 美元，成長 11.8%。更重要的是，銷售成長正在加速。過去 12 個月的總銷售額成長 5.6%，本季成長 8.8%，第一季同店銷售成長為 6.5%。我們的重新招商與品類調整（re-merchandising）成效已清楚反映在總銷售額上，整體資產組合與各品類（如奢侈品、珠寶、運動休閒與青少年服飾）均呈現強勁成長。

With that, I will now turn it over to Brian, who will review our financial results from the first quarter in more detail and provide an update on our outlook for the remainder of the year.

接下來我把時間交給 Brian，他將更詳細說明第一季財務結果，並更新我們對今年剩餘期間的展望。

Thank you, Eli. Real estate FFO was $1.2 billion, or $3.17 per share in the first quarter, compared to $1.1 billion or $2.95 per share in the prior-year period, growth of 7.5%. Domestic and international operations both performed well and contributed $0.27 of growth, driven by increased lease income along with disciplined cost management. As anticipated, higher interest expense and lower interest income combined were a $0.05 drag year over year.

謝謝你，Eli。第一季不動產 FFO 為 12 億美元，或每股 3.17 美元；相較去年同期的 11 億美元或每股 2.95 美元，成長 7.5%。國內與國際營運皆表現良好，合計貢獻每股 0.27 美元的成長，主要受租金收入增加以及嚴謹的成本管理所帶動。如預期，利息費用上升與利息收入下降合計，使年對年每股減少 0.05 美元。

Reported FFO of $2.91 per share includes $40 million, or $0.10 per share, of accelerated stock compensation expense, which reduced real estate FFO by $0.02 per share and other platform investments net of tax by $0.08 per share. Domestic property NOI growth was strong and increased 6.7% year over year for the quarter, with approximately 120 basis points of that growth attributable to our acquisition of the remaining TRG interests.

公告的 FFO 每股 2.91 美元包含 4,000 萬美元（或每股 0.10 美元）的加速認列股票薪酬費用，其中使不動產 FFO 每股減少 0.02 美元，並使其他平台投資（稅後淨額）每股減少 0.08 美元。本季國內物業 NOI 年對年成長強勁，增加 6.7%，其中約 120 個基點的成長可歸因於我們收購剩餘 TRG 權益。

Portfolio NOI, which includes our international properties at constant currency, also grew 6.7% for the quarter. Malls and premium outlets occupancy at the end of the first quarter was 96%, an increase of 10 basis points year over year. The Mills occupancy was 99.2%, an increase of 80 basis points year over year. Average base minimum rent for the malls and the premium outlets increased 5.2% year over year and The Mills increased 9.1%. Occupancy cost at the end of the quarter was 12.7%.

投資組合 NOI（以固定匯率納入國際物業）本季亦成長 6.7%。第一季末購物中心與高端暢貨中心入住率為 96%，年對年增加 10 個基點。The Mills 入住率為 99.2%，年對年增加 80 個基點。購物中心與高端暢貨中心的平均基本最低租金年對年增加 5.2%，The Mills 增加 9.1%。季末的入住成本（occupancy cost）為 12.7%。

Shifting to return of capital. Today we announced our dividend of $2.25 per share for the second quarter, an increase of $0.15 or 7.1% year over year. The dividend is payable on June 30. Also, in the first quarter, we repurchased approximately 965,000 shares of our common stock for an investment of $175 million at an average purchase price of $181.59.

接著談資本回饋。今天我們宣布第二季每股股利為 2.25 美元，較去年同期增加 0.15 美元或 7.1%。股利將於 6 月 30 日支付。此外，第一季我們以平均買回價格 181.59 美元、投入 1.75 億美元，回購約 965,000 股普通股。

Turning to the balance sheet. During the first quarter, we were active. We completed 10 secured loan transactions totaling approximately $2.3 billion at a weighted average interest rate of 5.25%. We also issued $800 million of senior notes that we used to repay proceeds from to repay our $800 million of notes that matured on January 15. We also amended, restated and extended our $5 billion revolving credit facility at a 15-basis-point lower pricing grid, and we ended the quarter with approximately $8.7 billion of liquidity.

接著談資產負債表。在第一季期間，我們相當積極。我們完成了10筆擔保貸款交易，總額約23億美元，加權平均利率為5.25%。我們也發行了8億美元的優先票據，並將其用於償還我們於1月15日到期的8億美元票據。我們也修訂、重述並延長了50億美元的循環信用額度，定價級距下調15個基點，且季末我們的流動性約為87億美元。

Subsequent to the end of the quarter, we closed on the refinancing of The Shops at Crystals via a five-year CMBS loan that was priced at 4.83%, the lowest retail fixed-rate coupon CMBS financing completed over the last four years.

在季末之後，我們完成了The Shops at Crystals的再融資，採用一筆五年期CMBS貸款，定價為4.83%，為過去四年完成的零售固定利率票息CMBS融資中最低者。

Turning to Klépierre's exchangeable bonds. During the quarter, we settled the conversion of approximately 174 million of outstanding bonds by exchanging 4.1 million shares of Klépierre and EUR79 million of cash. As part of that, we recognized a non-cash, non-FFO gain of $64 million in the quarter on the exchange of the Klépierre shares. Subsequent to the end of the quarter, we settled additional conversions of $374 million of the exchangeable bonds.

接著談Klépierre的可交換債。本季我們以交換410萬股Klépierre股票及7,900萬歐元現金的方式，結算了約1.74億面額的在外流通債券轉換。作為其中一部分，我們在本季就交換Klépierre股票認列了6,400萬美元的非現金、非FFO收益。在季末之後，我們又結算了額外3.74億美元的可交換債轉換。

Following the exchanges, there are approximately $188 million of bonds outstanding that will mature in November. We currently own approximately 59 million shares of Klépierre's common stock, which represents approximately 20.7% ownership. The end of the quarter, our balance sheet remains strong, with net debt-to-EBITDA of 5.0 times and a fixed charge coverage ratio of 4.6 times, supporting our strategy and continued execution.

在完成上述交換後，目前仍有約1.88億美元的債券在外流通，將於11月到期。我們目前持有約5,900萬股Klépierre普通股，約代表20.7%的持股比例。截至季末，我們的資產負債表仍然強勁，淨負債對EBITDA為5.0倍，固定費用保障倍數為4.6倍，支撐我們的策略與持續執行。

And finally, on to guidance for 2026. Given our results for the first quarter and our current view for the remainder of the year, we are increasing our full-year 2026 real estate FFO guidance to a range of $13.10 to $13.25 per share. That compares to $12.73 per share last year of real estate FFO and is a 5% increase at the midpoint.

最後，談到2026年的財測指引。基於第一季的結果以及我們對今年剩餘期間的目前看法，我們將2026年全年不動產FFO指引上調至每股13.10至13.25美元的區間。相較之下，去年不動產FFO為每股12.73美元，以中位數計算增加5%。

Thank you, we are now available for your questions.

謝謝，我們現在開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) Samir Khanal, Bank of America.

（接線員指示）美國銀行 Samir Khanal。

Eli, I guess as it relates to retailer demand, you mentioned it's very strong, and I see we have a lot of leverage on negotiations with the tenants here. Can you talk about the pricing power you have in this environment?

Eli，我想就零售商需求而言，你提到非常強勁，而且我看到我們在與租戶談判上有很大的籌碼。你能談談在這樣的環境下，你們具備的定價能力嗎？

I know you spoke about addressing sort of upcoming expirations into '27. But talk about kind of that growth momentum over the next, let's call it, 12 months.

我知道你談到要處理到2027年的一些即將到期合約。但請談談未來大約12個月的成長動能。

Sure. So first, we don't have any leverage over the retailers. The retailers can go a lot of places. They can open stores, not open stores, go online, go on Amazon. So I would query the first part of the question that we have any leverage or real pricing power over the retailers.

當然。首先，我們對零售商並沒有任何籌碼。零售商可以去很多地方。他們可以開店、不開店、轉到線上、上Amazon。所以我會質疑問題的第一部分，也就是我們是否對零售商有任何籌碼或真正的定價能力。

But I would like -- I guess, on the second part on the pipeline, so the pipeline is significant. And what's interesting is the way I look about it, it's really up across all different categories that we're leasing it today. So that's the legacy brands, that's our new business leasing, which are first to mall, first to our portfolio for either PTC online or from Asia, from Europe, et cetera.

但我想——我想談第二部分，也就是關於簽約管線，所以管線相當可觀。而有趣的是，以我的角度來看，今天我們在各種不同的出租類別上都在上升。包括既有品牌、我們的新業務招商，也就是首次進駐購物中心、首次進入我們投資組合的品牌，來源可能是PTC線上或來自亞洲、歐洲等等。

Luxury brands, that pipeline is up, restaurants are up, and local and regional businesses up. So we're really seeing broad-based demand across all our centers, not just sort of the top fortress centers, but really across the portfolio. And I think I attribute that to the fact that we're making our centers better. We're making them more relevant, and the customers, particularly the Gen Z customer, wants to come to our centers. And you're seeing that in traffic growth and you're seeing it in the retailer sales. So we're not going to talk about pricing power, have no leverage, but we feel very good about the pipeline and about our conversations with tenants.

精品品牌方面，管線在增加；餐飲在增加；本地與區域型商家也在增加。因此我們在所有中心都看到廣泛的需求，不只是所謂最頂尖的堡壘型中心，而是整個投資組合。我認為這要歸功於我們正在把中心做得更好。我們讓它們更具相關性，而消費者，特別是Z世代消費者，想要來到我們的中心。你可以從人流成長看到，也可以從零售商銷售額看到。所以我們不會談定價能力、也沒有籌碼，但我們對簽約管線以及與租戶的對話感到非常樂觀。

And then on the future expiration. So I guess a couple of things. One is we are above where we are in our '26 expirations, it's around 200 basis points or so, more than this time last year. But what's interesting when talking to the leasing team is retailers are now wanting to talk about their '27, '28, '29 expirations, which historically might have been more of a luxury tenant phenomenon, who think much like we do in terms of decades, not quarter to quarter.

接著談未來到期。我想有幾點。第一，我們在2026年到期合約的進度高於去年同期，約高出200個基點左右。但有趣的是，與租賃團隊交流時，零售商現在開始想談他們在2027、2028、2029年到期的合約；過去這種情況可能比較像是精品租戶的現象，他們的思維跟我們一樣是以十年為尺度，而不是以季度為尺度。

But we're actually hearing from legacy retailers in our existing portfolio, non-luxury that actually want to start having those conversations because I think they understand this pipeline too and the interest in our space. And so we like having those conversations, and I think they've been productive so far.

但我們其實也聽到我們既有投資組合中的傳統零售商（非精品）也想開始進行這些對話，因為我想他們也理解這條管線，以及市場對我們空間的興趣。因此我們樂於進行這些對話，而且我認為到目前為止都很有成效。

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

高盛 Caitlin Burrows。

Maybe just big picture, wondering if you could go through, considering the leadership transition, do you expect any changes to Simon's strategy and execution? And is there any change to capital allocation priorities between, call it acquisitions, share repurchases versus buybacks, the deep redevelopment pipeline and dividend growth? I know you've been active on all fronts recently.

也許從大方向來看，考量到領導階層交接，你能否說明是否預期Simon的策略與執行會有任何改變？另外，在資本配置優先順序上是否會有變化，例如收購、股票回購（share repurchases/buybacks）、深度改造的開發管線，以及股利成長？我知道你們最近在各方面都很積極。

Sure. Hi, Caitlin. So as far as leadership changes, this is -- we're operating business as usual. We have the best-in-class team, and we're continuing to execute on our business plan. So no change there, and everyone's excited for the future and excited to keep doing what we're doing.

當然。嗨，Caitlin。就領導階層變動而言——我們一切照常營運。我們擁有同級最佳的團隊，並持續執行我們的商業計畫。所以這方面沒有改變，大家都對未來感到興奮，也期待持續做我們正在做的事。

With regards to capital allocations. We look at all of it always, and I guess I'll just go through the different pieces. And so starting off on our development-redevelopment pipeline, which I mentioned, so the current projects underweighs about $1 billion. We have about $1 billion that we'll have the ability to start later this year, and then at least $3 billion behind that, that we can start over the next several years.

至於資本配置。我們一直都會全面評估，我想我就把不同部分依序說明。首先是我們的開發—再開發管線，我剛才提到，目前在建專案約10億美元。我們還有約10億美元的專案具備在今年稍晚啟動的能力，此外後面至少還有30億美元的專案，可在未來幾年陸續啟動。

And so we look at that each project on a project-by-project basis incredibly, meticulously, incredibly detailed, and we evaluate the market conditions at that time, the retailer demand. Do we think it's the appropriate return?

因此我們會以逐案方式來看待每個專案，非常、非常審慎且極其細緻，並評估當時的市場狀況與零售商需求。我們認為是否能取得適當的報酬？

And today, we're seeing very good returns there. And doing what we're able to do in this pipeline at 9%-plus, we feel very good about adding density, adding mixed uses to our centers. And so we'll continue to do that. But if market conditions change, if costs rise from a construction perspective, we obviously have the ability to stop, to pause this land we own and we're going to own forever, and so we'll do it at the right time.

而今天，我們在那裡看到非常好的報酬。而在這條開發管線中，我們能做到 9% 以上的報酬率，我們對於在我們的商場增加密度、導入複合用途感到非常有信心。因此我們會持續推進。但如果市場條件改變、若從施工角度來看成本上升，我們顯然有能力停止、暫緩在我們所擁有、且將永遠持有的這些土地上的開發，因此我們會在適當的時機再做。

Next area is acquisitions. Obviously, there's been more transactions in the retail market, which I think overall is great, more capital coming into the sector. When I think about acquisitions, sort of -- and I've said this before, but it's three key criteria as to make our portfolio better. It has to be brand accretive. It has to be an asset that we can -- or a portfolio that we can add real value, utilize our skills to operate better, then it has to be at the right price.

下一個領域是併購。顯然，零售市場的交易變多了，我認為整體而言這很好，有更多資金進入這個產業。當我談到併購時，大致上——我以前也說過——有三個關鍵標準，目的是讓我們的投資組合更好。它必須能提升品牌價值。它必須是我們能夠——或是一個我們能夠——增加實質價值的資產或資產組合，運用我們的能力把營運做得更好，並且必須在合適的價格。

And so last year, if you put aside the remaining stake in TRG, we did three transactions, the mall outlets in Italy, Brickell City Centre, obviously, in Miami, and Phillips Place in Charlotte. And all three of those hit those criteria and frankly are outperforming even what we thought and are very excited about those future prospects.

因此去年，如果先不算 TRG 的剩餘持股，我們做了三筆交易：義大利的 outlet 商場、邁阿密的 Brickell City Centre，以及夏洛特的 Phillips Place。這三筆都符合那些標準，而且坦白說表現甚至超過我們原先的預期，我們對未來前景非常興奮。

Next, I guess you could go to share buybacks. Obviously, a slightly slower pace in the last quarter than -- a little geopolitical unrest, a little choppiness in the market, and so we're prudent and weighted. But as we said last year, we issued a little over 5 million shares to do the last 12% of Taubman transaction, and we fully expect to buy those back. And so I would expect us to continue to be active. But again, if we do it now, great. If we wait, because we think it's prudent, that's fine as well.

接下來，我想可以談到庫藏股回購。顯然，上一季的步調比——稍微慢一些；有一些地緣政治不安、以及市場的些許波動，因此我們採取審慎、觀望的態度。但如同我們去年所說，我們為了完成 Taubman 交易最後 12% 的部分，發行了略多於 500 萬股，而我們完全預期會把那些股票買回來。因此我預期我們會持續積極進行。但再次強調，如果現在做，很好。如果我們認為審慎起見而等待，那也同樣沒問題。

And then on the dividend, obviously, the dividend increased. It's been growing at a nice rate. It's something we take tremendous pride in. And I'm pretty sure, looking at Brian, I think in the third quarter, we should be passing $50 billion paid as a public company, which is a pretty big number. And so that's obviously incredibly important to us.

至於股利，顯然股利已經提高。它一直以不錯的速度成長。這是我們非常引以為傲的事情。而且我相當確定——看著 Brian——我想在第三季，我們作為一家上市公司累計發放的股利應該會突破 500 億美元，這是一個相當大的數字。因此這對我們顯然極其重要。

But at the end of the day, if you think about the business, we're generating $1.6 billion or so of free cash flow after dividends. And so we have tremendous opportunities and tremendous things to do with that. And if we continue to naturally deleverage because we don't like the opportunities, that's fine too, which we've been doing.

但歸根究柢，如果你看這門生意，在股利之後我們大約產生 16 億美元的自由現金流。因此我們有非常多的機會，以及很多事情可以運用這筆資金去做。而如果我們因為覺得機會不夠吸引而持續自然去槓桿，那也沒問題，我們也一直在這麼做。

So I guess that was a long-winded way to answer, but really no change in our capital allocation. We continue to evaluate all ideas and all opportunities, and we'll do what's best at any given time, which could be all or could be none.

所以我想這是個比較冗長的回答，但我們的資本配置其實沒有改變。我們會持續評估所有想法與所有機會，並在任何特定時點做出最好的選擇，可能是全部都做，也可能是一個都不做。

Michael Goldsmith, UBS.

Michael Goldsmith，瑞銀。

Eli, you mentioned the resilience of the consumer. What are you seeing from the consumer specifically? Is there any way that they are changing the way they shop or spend at the centers?

Eli，你提到消費者的韌性。你具體從消費者身上看到了什麼？他們在商場的購物或消費方式，有沒有任何改變？

And then also, if you have any data on the Gen Z consumer and how they may be different than some of the other cohorts, that would be helpful.

另外，如果你有任何關於 Z 世代消費者的數據，以及他們可能與其他族群有何不同，也會很有幫助。

Sure. So I would say the sales growth is really broad-based, right? 6.5% comp for the quarter is a very healthy number, and it's really across category. Clearly, the upper-end consumer is doing very well. You could look at the stock market, that should not be a surprise.

當然。所以我會說，銷售成長其實是相當廣泛的，對吧？本季同店成長 6.5% 是非常健康的數字，而且幾乎涵蓋各個品類。很明顯，高端消費者表現非常好。你看看股市，就不會覺得意外。

And so you're obviously seeing that in the luxury business with some of the brands, frankly, that might have been a little bit softer in the past couple of years, now have been -- starting to see some rebounds, but really you're seeing it in the hard luxury and jewelry and watches, really, really solid growth.

因此你在奢侈品業務中、在某些品牌上確實看得到這點；坦白說，過去幾年可能稍微疲弱的一些品牌，現在已經——開始看到一些回升；但你真正看到的是在硬奢、珠寶與腕錶上，成長非常、非常強勁。

But we're also seeing it in the juniors business, which hits that Gen. Z customer, both new juniors brands, legacy juniors brands all really fired on all cylinders. And I think that's an example of competition is great because some of these legacy brands needed to innovate, needed to be able to compete with the new -- with some of these new brands.

但我們也在青少年（juniors）業務上看到成長，這正好觸及 Z 世代客群。不論是新的青少年品牌、或是傳統的青少年品牌，都火力全開、表現非常好。我認為這就是競爭是好事的一個例子，因為其中一些老牌品牌需要創新，需要能夠與新的——與一些新品牌競爭。

I was at the Catalyst office, I guess, last week or the week before, and Arrow, which is now competing with some new entrants in that space are doing new things with new influencers that, frankly, I had no idea who they were, but I think for the customer they're targeting, it's working, and so we are definitely seeing that across the portfolio.

我上週或前一週去 Catalyst 辦公室時，Arrow 這個品牌——現在正在與該領域的一些新進者競爭——正在用新的網紅做一些新嘗試；坦白說，我根本不知道那些人是誰，但我想對他們鎖定的客群而言是有效的，因此我們確實在整個投資組合中都看到了這種情況。

The only thing I would say that is a touch softer is on the food and beverage side which is basically what's flat from a comp perspective. And so that's probably not surprising seeing some of the earnings from the restaurant groups out there. But whether it's a trading down effect, maybe one less trip out, that's the only place we're seeing it, but the rest of it is broad-based growth.

我唯一想說稍微偏弱一點的是餐飲（food and beverage）端，從同店角度看基本上是持平。因此，從外面一些餐飲集團的獲利表現來看，這大概也不令人意外。但不管是消費降級效應、或是可能少外出一次，這是我們唯一看到的地方；其餘部分則是廣泛性的成長。

Obviously, athleisure is still very strong across the portfolio. The only other thing I guess I could say on sales is the tourist markets that really rely on the European and Canadian international traveler, that is a touch softer. If you look at Woodbury, Woodbury, I think comp was called 2.5% versus 6.6%, that's atypical, right? Woodbury, normally you would say is going to be performing well above average, and that obviously is less European international travel into the US and Canadian is a big part of that.

顯然，運動休閒（athleisure）在整個投資組合中仍然非常強勁。另外在銷售方面我想補充的是，那些高度依賴歐洲與加拿大國際旅客的觀光市場，表現稍微偏弱。如果你看 Woodbury，Woodbury，我想同店成長被提到是 2.5% 對比 6.6%，這不太尋常，對吧？Woodbury 通常你會說它的表現會明顯高於平均，而這顯然是因為進入美國的歐洲國際旅遊減少，加拿大旅客也是其中很大一部分。

But the flip side is, you go to Florida and it is from South Florida, Panhandle, the west side with Tampa and what we have at International Plaza or Waterside and Naples and obviously Orlando, which has probably been the best market over the past year, very, very strong growth there.

但另一方面，你去佛羅里達就會看到，從南佛州、狹長地帶（Panhandle）、到西岸的坦帕，以及我們在 International Plaza 或 Waterside、還有那不勒斯（Naples），當然還有奧蘭多——過去一年可能是表現最好的市場——那裡的成長非常、非常強勁。

And then on the Gen Z customer, I guess look at it in the future, we have some things coming there. I think the way I look at it is, you can see it in the sales, you can see it in these customers -- or in these retailers that are targeting. They are all growing. They want more space and their sales are proving that they're resonating with that customer.

至於 Z 世代客群，我想著眼於未來，我們在那方面會有一些動作。我看待這件事的方式是：你可以從銷售看得出來，也可以從這些客戶——或是從這些鎖定他們的零售商身上看得出來。他們都在成長。他們想要更大的店面空間，而他們的銷售也證明他們確實與那個客群產生共鳴。

Michael, this is Brian. I guess the only thing I would add on the Gen Z customer is they were really the centerpiece of our Meet Me @themall campaign that we launched with our marketing team two years ago. We identified this as being a growing cohort, and we've been investing. We've been bringing the brands to bear that the Gen Z cohort is looking for. And most of our activations and social aspects are geared toward them as well.

Michael，我是 Brian。我想我唯一要補充關於 Z 世代客群的是：他們確實是我們兩年前與行銷團隊推出的 Meet Me @themall 活動的核心主角。我們辨識到這是一個正在成長的族群，並且一直在投入資源。我們把 Z 世代族群想要的品牌引進到位。而我們大多數的活動策劃與社群面向也都以他們為主。

And so big lean-in from us. It's been about two years, and we continue to see great progress with that consumer.

因此我們在這方面投入了很大的資源與力度。已經大約兩年了，我們持續看到該消費者族群有很大的進展。

Michael Griffin, Evercore ISI.

Michael Griffin，Evercore ISI。

Great. Eli, just curious if you can give us maybe some color on whether it's new or renewal lease spreads and maybe how that compares relative to this time last year?

很好。Eli，我只是好奇你能否提供一些背景，說明這些是新簽或續約的租約價差（lease spreads），以及相較於去年同期的比較情況？

And then if you look at the portfolio right now, north of 96% leased, are we reaching sort of that structural occupancy? Could we see it go to 96.5%, 97%. Just curious if you can give some commentary there as well.

另外，如果你看目前投資組合，出租率在96%以上，我們是否已經接近某種結構性的入住率上限？是否可能升到96.5%、97%？也想請你就此提供一些評論。

Sure. So on -- so spreads, I think, is not necessarily the most relevant metric. But what I would say on new historically, over the last number of years, we're sort of in the mid-single digits increases on renewals, bounces around up and down a little bit from that number, depending on what package of renewals are signed in any given quarter. But that's holding true, and we don't see any real change there.

當然。關於——關於價差（spreads），我認為那不一定是最相關的衡量指標。但我會說，就新簽而言，從歷史上看，過去幾年我們的續約租金調升大致在中個位數百分比；會因每一季簽下的續約組合不同而上下波動一些。但目前仍維持這樣的水準，我們沒有看到任何實質變化。

And as I said, we're looking at renewals further into the future. Retailers were asking us about that. And obviously, we're only going to do those renewals, if it makes sense for us as well.

而且如我所說，我們正在把續約談判往更遠的未來推進。零售商也在詢問我們這件事。當然，只有在對我們也合理的情況下，我們才會進行那些續約。

On the new deals, what I look at is the new leases we are signing are 20%-plus, 20%, 25% above new leases last year. And that is -- obviously, there's -- mix is part of that. But really, it's -- the brands understand the importance of having a great physical representation and our centers are that. And so we're proud of that.

至於新交易，我看的指標是：我們現在簽下的新租約，相較於去年新租約的水準高出20%以上，大約20%到25%。而這——顯然其中有一部分是組合（mix）因素。但更重要的是——品牌理解擁有優質實體呈現的重要性，而我們的購物中心正是如此。因此我們對此感到自豪。

And the other thing we're probably more proud of, frankly, is what we call our new business brands are outperforming that increase by, call it, another 10%-plus on that. So the best of the best brands, whether it's some of these beauty brands coming from Asia. We just opened a Google store at Fashion Valley, I guess this weekend, new athleisure brands, new home furnishing brands.

另外一點，坦白說我們更自豪的是，我們所謂的「新業務品牌」表現甚至比上述增幅還要再高，大概再多10%以上。也就是最頂尖的品牌，不論是一些從亞洲來的美妝品牌。我們這個週末在Fashion Valley剛開了一家Google門市，還有新的運動休閒（athleisure）品牌、新的家居陳設品牌。

We're able to have rents there that they are able to pay because they're doing the business and because they're generating the traffic and they know that it's great for them, and it's going to help their business grow. So hopefully, that answers the first part on spreads.

我們能在那裡收取他們也負擔得起的租金，因為他們的生意做得起來、能帶來人流，而且他們知道這對他們很有利，並將有助於其業務成長。所以希望這回答了第一部分關於價差的問題。

On occupancy, it's interesting. If we wanted to we could lease up to 97%, 97.5%. I have no doubt about that. But I think for us, we look at this not metric quarter to quarter or even a year-end metric to really what's the right decision long term for these assets. And so sometimes that might be holding space for another retailer that's coming and might be taking a little bit of downtime, which, again, we don't like to do, and we have an incredible short-term leasing program that keeps the occupancy at a good number.

至於入住率（occupancy），這很有意思。如果我們想要，其實可以把出租率提高到97%、97.5%。我對此毫不懷疑。但對我們而言，我們看的不是季度對季度，甚至不是年底的指標，而是從長期來看，對這些資產什麼才是正確決策。因此有時候可能會保留一些空間，留給即將進駐的另一家零售商，這可能會帶來一點空置期；我們當然不喜歡這樣，但我們有非常強的短期租賃計畫，能讓入住率維持在不錯的水準。

But we honestly don't focus if it's 90% -- what? it's 96% now, 96.4% at the end of the year, it's 96.2% or 96.6%. That's not what I'm focused on. I'm focused on, excluding the Taubman 12%, we grew NOI 5.5% year over year, and we've grown it at north of 4% for the last four years. So that's more important than 20 basis points on the margin.

但老實說，我們不會糾結於是90%——什麼？現在是96%，年底是96.4%，是96.2%或96.6%。這不是我關注的重點。我關注的是：扣除Taubman那12%的影響，我們的NOI年增5.5%，而且過去四年我們的NOI年增都在4%以上。所以這比邊際上20個基點更重要。

But the answer is yes. There is there is room to increase occupancy here, but it's not the be all and end all for us. It's really let's grow cash flow.

但答案是肯定的。確實還有空間可以提高入住率，但這不是我們的終極目標。真正重要的是讓現金流成長。

Alexander Goldfarb, Piper Sandler.

Alexander Goldfarb，Piper Sandler。

Eli, just a question on data centers. You guys in the past year or so have spoken about how the B malls have rebounded strong in centers that a number of years ago, you would have sort of used for cash flow now have a second life because of the demand from retailers and there's a renewed vibrancy to them.

Eli，我想問一個關於資料中心（data centers）的问题。你們在過去一年左右曾談到，B級商場在一些中心強勁反彈；幾年前你們可能把它們視為現金流資產，但因零售商需求而有了第二生命，重新變得更有活力。

But as you look at the demand for data centers and presumably some of your centers have excess power utilities or what have you, do you see opportunity where -- whether they're many data centers or maybe even converting the entire site to data center, do you see this as an opportunity for any of the excess holdings? Or as you look at the portfolio all the malls, because of this lack of supply, are really their highest and best uses, either as a mall or mixed-use venue?

但當你看資料中心的需求，而且推測你們有些中心可能有多餘的電力公用設施等，你是否看到機會——不論是建幾個資料中心，或甚至把整個場址改為資料中心，你是否認為這對某些多餘持有資產是一個機會？或者從整體投資組合來看，因為供給不足，所有商場的最高及最佳用途（highest and best use）其實仍是作為商場或複合式用途場域？

Sure. So I would say the answer to the first part is probably 18 months ago or so, we really scoured their portfolio. As you said, both the combination of again, we don't really use A or B malls, but malls that might have had a lower growth profile for potentially excess land at some other malls to see is there anywhere that makes sense for a data center. We talk to various data center operators. And we couldn't find anything that made sense. And honestly, the power is less available than you would think, especially, obviously, if it's an existing mall that would stay in place.

當然。我會說第一部分的答案是：大概在18個月前左右，我們確實非常仔細地檢視過我們的投資組合。如你所說，結合——再次強調，我們其實不太用A或B商場這種分類——但對於一些可能成長性較低的商場，以及其他商場可能有的多餘土地，我們去看是否有任何地方適合做資料中心。我們也和多家資料中心營運商談過。但我們找不到任何合理可行的案子。而且老實說，可用電力比你想像的更少，尤其——顯然——如果是既有商場仍要維持營運的情況下。

And so it's something we -- with our team, we look at relatively frequently. But to date, we have not found anything. But to answer the second part, at the end of the day, we're economic animals. And if there is a higher and better use for the data center, that we thought we could sell something and take cash and reinvest it elsewhere more accretively, we would do that 100%. We haven't seen that to date.

所以這是我們——和團隊一起——相對頻繁會看的事情。但截至目前，我們沒有找到任何合適的機會。不過回答第二部分：歸根結底，我們是以經濟效益為導向的。如果資料中心是更高且更佳的用途（higher and better use），而我們認為可以出售某項資產、取得現金，並在其他地方以更具增益性（more accretively）的方式再投資，我們會百分之百去做。但到目前為止我們還沒看到這種情況。

And as you mentioned, we're excited about the growth prospects there. So it's not like we're actively trying to shed any assets in that regard or try to find alternative uses. We are doing what we said we were going to do.

而且如你提到的，我們對那裡的成長前景感到興奮。所以我們並不是在這方面積極想要處分任何資產，或試圖尋找替代用途。我們正在做我們說過要做的事。

If you look at Smith Haven, for example, we signed a very important retailer there and put in capital to renovate and now we've seen good growth and good demand. So we'll continue to evaluate, but the demand is there from the retailers really up and down the portfolio. And so we will continue to operate.

以Smith Haven為例，我們在那裡簽下了一家非常重要的零售商，並投入資本進行翻新，現在我們看到良好的成長與良好的需求。因此我們會持續評估，但零售商的需求在整個投資組合各處都很強。所以我們會繼續營運。

But again, if someone came and he comes and says, here's a big price for an asset, and we look at it and say there's a better use of that cash, we won't hesitate to sell. It just hasn't happened yet.

但再說一次，如果有人來——他來說，這裡有一個對某項資產的高價，我們評估後認為這筆現金有更好的用途，我們會毫不猶豫地出售。只是目前還沒有發生。

Greg McGinniss, Scotiabank.

Greg McGinniss，豐業銀行（Scotiabank）。

I was just curious on the integration with Taubman, how that's going, what synergies you're finding and where you see best opportunities for reinvesting into that platform? What's now your platform?

我只是好奇與 Taubman 的整合進展如何、你們正在發現哪些綜效，以及你們認為在那個平台上再投資的最佳機會在哪裡？你們現在的平台是什麼？

Great. And thanks for asking that. So I'd say from a corporate integration perspective, it's gone according to plan effectively fully completed all the corporate integration by the end of April. So that's done, and it was well done by the team and so we're excited how that turned out.

很好。也謝謝你問這個問題。所以我會說，從公司層面的整合角度來看，一切基本上按計畫進行，我們在 4 月底前有效完成了所有公司層面的整合。所以這部分已經完成了，團隊做得很好，我們也很興奮看到這樣的成果。

And so now on to the assets, we're honestly probably more excited than we were in November or October, I guess, when we finish. And it's a combination of sort of using our ability to operate centers at a level that increases margin and that's from an operating expense perspective, that's from a marketing perspective, that's ancillary income, that's parking. Obviously, our short-term leasing program, which I mentioned earlier, to be able to be fully integrated there has been helpful.

接下來就是資產層面，老實說，我們可能比 11 月或 10 月（我想是交易完成時）還更興奮。這是多方面的結合：運用我們把購物中心營運到能提升利潤率的能力——包括營運費用面、行銷面、附屬收入、停車收入。當然，我先前提到的短期租賃計畫，現在能夠完全整合進來也很有幫助。

And then our leasing department able to lease these centers, which again, obviously, the Taubman team did a great job, but they were leasing these centers for the past six years of the transaction. So now we're able to do that.

另外，我們的租賃部門也能為這些中心招租；當然，Taubman 團隊做得很出色，但在交易前的六年期間一直是由他們在為這些中心招租。所以現在我們也能自己來做這件事。

But more importantly or most importantly, I should say, is our ability now with our balance sheet to reinvest into these centers. And that's, frankly, what I'm most excited about. And so if you look last quarter, I think a day or two after earnings, we put out a press release.

但更重要、或者說最重要的是，我們現在能夠憑藉資產負債表的實力，對這些中心再投資。坦白說，這是我最興奮的部分。所以如果你看上一季，我記得在財報發布後一兩天，我們發了一則新聞稿。

And I'll just highlight three assets briefly that we mentioned. But in Nashville at Green Hills and Tampa at International Plaza and at Cherry Creek in Denver we're going to invest over $250 million into those centers starting later this year to really make them again, great assets performing great, tenant sales strong and leasing strong, but to make them even better to freshen them up, to make them look the same that the refitting as for the performance of the retailers.

我簡單強調一下我們提到的三個資產。在納什維爾的 Green Hills、坦帕的 International Plaza，以及丹佛的 Cherry Creek，我們將從今年稍晚開始在這些中心投資超過 2.5 億美元，讓它們再次成為更卓越的資產——目前表現已經很強，店家銷售強、招租也強——但我們要讓它們更好：更新、翻新，讓它們在外觀與配置上更符合零售商的營運表現需求。

And so we have renderings that I've shared with some of the retailers, especially the luxury retailers, all very, very excited. And so now it's our job to go execute that to sort of take the vision and to do the redevelopments or do the renovations, which we're in the process of starting very soon. And then obviously, to the lease to those tenants that we think should be in these centers.

因此我們有一些效果圖，我也分享給部分零售商，尤其是精品（奢侈品）零售商，他們都非常、非常興奮。現在我們的工作就是把它落地執行，把願景轉化為重建開發或整修工程，我們很快就會開始。然後當然，也要把我們認為應該進駐這些中心的租戶招進來。

And so no different Green Hills than we did at Southdale in Edina Minnesota, which I don't know if you've been out there. But what we did was sort of revitalize the whole mall. And these malls weren't -- are not in the position that Southdale was in. They're in a much better position, but we think we can have an equally strong impact from these programs.

所以 Green Hills 也不例外，就像我們在明尼蘇達州 Edina 的 Southdale 所做的一樣——我不知道你是否去過那裡。我們當時做的是讓整個商場重新活化。而這些商場過去並不是——也不是——像 Southdale 當時那樣的狀況。它們的基礎條件好得多，但我們認為透過這些計畫也能帶來同樣強勁的影響。

International Plaza will be an expansion, probably an outdoor expansion. Revitalized Bay Street, which has great restaurants, we think we can upgrade the restaurant mix. So sort of doing what we've been doing across the rest of our portfolio, now we're able to do it on these great assets.

International Plaza 將會是擴建，可能是戶外擴建。並且會活化 Bay Street；那裡餐廳本來就很棒，我們認為還能升級餐飲組合。也就是把我們在其他資產組合中一直在做的事情，現在也能在這些優質資產上推動。

And so it's a big focus of ours sort of a whole of company approach and that's what we've been telling retailers and it's true because these assets should be and will be better. And that's something very exciting for us.

所以這是我們的一大重點，算是一個全公司共同推進的做法；我們也一直這樣跟零售商溝通，而且這是真的，因為這些資產應該、也將會變得更好。這對我們來說非常令人振奮。

Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

Ronald Kamdem，摩根士丹利（Morgan Stanley）。

Great. Just wondering if you can provide an update on sort of the other platform investments and some of the retail investments they've been performing relative to expectations and your thinking in terms of monetization of that platform.

很好。想請問你是否可以更新一下其他平台投資，以及部分零售投資的表現相對於預期如何，還有你們對該平台變現的想法。

And the follow-up would be, I think part of the thinking was getting a lot of data from the retailers would be valuable. Just maybe can you talk about how that's been sort of helpful in this sort of new age where everybody is focused on AI.

追問一下，我想當初部分考量是從零售商取得大量資料會很有價值。能否談談在這個大家都聚焦 AI 的新時代，這些資料如何帶來幫助？

Sure. So I guess if you think about OPI today, is basically comprised of three pieces. It's a catalyst, which is obviously the former SPARC and JCPenney businesses. It's Rue La La and Gilt which has ShopSimon in it in it's Jamestown. All three are performing at or above plan for the first quarter of the year.

當然。所以如果你看今天的 OPI，基本上由三個部分組成。第一是 Catalyst，也就是先前的 SPARC 與 JCPenney 業務。第二是 Rue La La 和 Gilt，其中包含 ShopSimon；第三是 Jamestown。這三個在今年第一季的表現都達到或優於計畫。

I think the teams -- they all have obviously independent management teams. They're doing great. And so from an operating perspective, I'd say it's business as usual, and they're continuing to execute on their business plans. But again, quarter to -- or year to date, they've all been effectively at plan.

我認為各團隊——它們當然都有各自獨立的管理團隊——做得很棒。他們表現很好。所以從營運角度來看，我會說一切照常運作，並持續執行各自的商業計畫。但同樣地，以季度——或年初至今——來看，它們基本上都符合計畫。

From a monetization perspective, we're opportunistic sellers. We're not planning on anything if there's an opportunity, and we think it's in the best interest of shareholders, would we do it? Of course, but if not, they're all properly capitalized, have proper liquidity amounts and the ability to run themselves. And so that's what we expect to happen. But if something occurs, that's great, too, and we will not hesitate to monetize if it's in the best interest of shareholders, which obviously we did with our authentic brand stake a couple of years ago.

從變現角度來看，我們是機會型賣方。我們沒有預先規劃任何事情；如果有機會出現，而且我們認為符合股東的最佳利益，我們會做嗎？當然會；但如果沒有，它們都已獲得適當資本配置、具備足夠流動性，也有能力自行運作。所以我們預期就會是這樣。但如果有事情發生，那也很好；只要符合股東最佳利益，我們不會猶豫去變現——就像我們幾年前處分 Authentic Brands 的持股一樣。

As far as data, I'd say less data, hard data specifically because obviously, you have privacy issues and whatnot with that, but really on best practices and learnings. And if you think about a couple of departments from our marketing department, it's incredibly interesting and our marketing team talks often to the marketing team from Rue La La and Gilt and from Catalyst to learn how they're attracting customers, where they're seeing the most efficacy of their ad buys, whether it's TikTok or Meta or Rue La La and Gilt has big connected TV business, et cetera.

至於資料方面，我會說比較不是「資料量」或特別是硬資料，因為顯然會涉及隱私等問題；更多是最佳實務與經驗學習。如果你看我們行銷部門的幾個團隊，這非常有意思：我們的行銷團隊經常與 Rue La La 和 Gilt 的行銷團隊，以及 Catalyst 的行銷團隊交流，了解他們如何吸引客戶、他們的廣告投放在哪些渠道最有效——不論是 TikTok、Meta，或是 Rue La La 和 Gilt 有很大的連網電視（Connected TV）業務等等。

And so that's what I would say is we're more focused on. I think it's interesting from a brand perspective, helps us think like a retailer. So for example, the tariff situation, we're able to understand how Catalyst, which is no different than hundreds and hundreds or thousands, thousands, frankly, of retailers in the country are dealing with the tariff refunds and how they're planning for the year. And so I think it gives us insights and data from that perspective but not necessarily hard data that we can monetize because there's real legal implications there that make it tricky.

所以我會說我們更聚焦在這些。我認為從品牌角度來看也很有意思，能幫助我們用零售商的思維來思考。例如關稅的情況，我們能理解 Catalyst（其實就跟全國成百上千、甚至坦白說成千上萬的零售商一樣）如何處理關稅退稅，以及他們如何規劃今年。所以我認為這讓我們在那個層面獲得洞察與資訊，但不一定是可以拿來變現的硬資料，因為確實有法律層面的影響，使得這件事比較棘手。

But you mentioned we're learning from them, too. And I think they're learning from us. We're comparing, again, different tools to use, different programs. How can we provide more customization for the consumer because these retailers, especially Rue La La and Gilt, are really good at that. And so we can learn from that.

但你提到我們也在向他們學習。我想他們也在向我們學習。我們在比較不同的工具、不同的方案。我們如何為消費者提供更多客製化，因為這些零售商——尤其是 Rue La La 和 Gilt——在這方面真的很擅長。所以我們可以從中學到很多。

So for us, we look at a symbiotic relationship. Hopefully, we can add some value to those companies. They can add value to us and we're happy shareholders of those companies and we continue to -- or we expect to continue to be for a while. But if something comes up, then we won't hesitate to do something that's in the best interest of the company.

所以對我們而言，我們看重的是一種共生關係。希望我們能為那些公司帶來一些價值。他們也能為我們帶來價值，而我們也很樂意成為那些公司的股東，並且我們會持續——或我們預期在一段時間內會持續如此。但如果出現某些情況，我們不會猶豫去做對公司最符合利益的事。

Floris Van Dijkum, Ladenburg Thalmann.

Floris Van Dijkum，Ladenburg Thalmann。

Eli, thanks for the answer so far. Question on the redevelopment pipeline. Obviously, 9% direct returns appear very attractive. You've got an ongoing pipeline of $1 billion and another $1 billion down the pike. But 1% to 2% of your overall portfolio value or even less, actually.

Eli，謝謝你目前為止的回答。我想問關於改造（redevelopment）案源（pipeline）。顯然，9%的直接報酬看起來非常有吸引力。你們有一個正在進行中的10億美元案源，另外還有10億美元在後面排隊。但其實只占你們整體投資組合價值的1%到2%，甚至更少。

Could you maybe talk about what percentage of the portfolio you still have left that is yet to receive capital? And then maybe the follow-on with the add-on is if the direct returns are 9%, what are the actual returns once you redeveloped and do you see the benefits in other parts of the center, for example, when you add or rejuvenate a wing, what kind of returns do you -- have you typically seen in age into the immediate incremental returns?

你能否談談投資組合中，還有多少比例尚未獲得資本投入？接著延伸的問題是：如果直接報酬是9%，那麼在你們完成改造之後的實際報酬是多少？另外，你們是否也看到購物中心其他部分的效益，例如當你新增或翻新某個翼區時，你們通常看到什麼樣的回報——或者說，通常在多大程度上會反映在周邊的即時增量回報上？

Thanks for the question. So I would say we're investing capital in basically every center, every year, frankly. And so as far as large transformational projects, sort of that if you put aside the $1 billion that's actively under development today, and you call it the $4 billion to $5 billion shadow pipeline, that's on I don't know, probably 20, 25 centers that we're developing at , I think I said 29 centers today.

謝謝你的問題。我會說，坦白講，我們基本上每年都在幾乎每一個購物中心投入資本。至於大型、具轉型性的專案，如果先把目前正在開發的那10億美元放一邊，然後把所謂40億到50億美元的「影子案源」拿出來看，那大概分布在我不確定，可能20到25個我們正在開發的中心；我想我今天提到的是29個中心。

There's for sure others that are not in there. I don't have an exact number, but we -- some of it is because we don't control the real estate that we'd want to control to do the redevelopment or do the densification or the mixed-use addition or whatnot or whatever makes sense for that center. So I don't have an exact number, but if sort of the fear is that we are running out of things to do, we're not, not even scratching the surface.

當然還有其他不在其中的。我沒有精確數字，但——其中一部分原因是，我們並不控制我們希望控制的那塊不動產，因此無法進行改造、提高密度、加入複合式用途（mixed-use）等，或任何對該中心合理的作法。所以我沒有精確數字，但如果擔心的是我們快沒有事情可做了，那並不是，我們甚至連表面都還沒碰到。

And again, there will be more opportunities across the portfolio over time. We're not going to go to the extent we don't control piece of real estate that we want to develop. We're not going to go and buy it just to buy it to be able to do it today, even though we could, just not the way we think about it.

而且再說一次，隨著時間推移，整個投資組合還會出現更多機會。我們不會因為我們不控制某塊想開發的不動產，就跑去把它買下來，只是為了今天能做開發；即使我們做得到，也不是我們思考事情的方式。

As far as the other benefits. It's interesting. It's a question that frankly, I talk with the team about often is that we do not underwrite it. And the reason is really need to be intellectually honest with ourselves and say, if we're doing a redevelopment -- I'm in Indianapolis today, so at Keystone, redeveloping the Saks box or the former Saks box, which just started, there will be an impact, no doubt. But we have to look at it and say, okay, for the new money we're putting in, what are we earning knowing that there's going to be a benefit.

至於其他效益。這很有意思。坦白說，這是我常跟團隊討論的問題：我們不會把它納入承作（underwrite）。原因是我們必須在理性上對自己誠實，並說：如果我們在做一個改造——我今天人在印第安納波利斯，所以以Keystone為例，我們正在改造Saks店盒（Saks box）或前Saks店盒，剛開始動工，毫無疑問會有影響。但我們必須這樣看：就我們投入的新資金而言，在知道會帶來外溢效益的前提下，我們實際賺到的是什麼？

What I look at is less the less incremental, okay, we got $5 of new rent on this tenant or that tenant because that sort of day-to-day business and how do you quantify that as hard. I look at sort of, say, what are the customers saying?

我看的比較不是那種較小的增量，例如「這個或那個租戶多付了5美元的新租金」，因為那屬於日常營運，而且要把它量化非常困難。我會看的是，例如，顧客怎麼說？

And so if you look at new projects we opened in Southdale last year and in Brea, just two, for example, both fairly fully open. I think the last tenant at Southdale was Tiffany's, which I want to say opened in February. Brea, Dick's did not open until April, just opened recently and Lifetime hasn't opened. And I want to say one or two of the restaurants are not open.

所以如果你看我們去年在Southdale和Brea開出的新專案，舉兩個例子，兩者都幾乎全面開幕。我想Southdale最後一家開的是Tiffany's，我記得是2月開的。Brea方面，Dick's直到4月才開，最近才剛開，而Lifetime還沒開。我想還有一兩家餐廳也還沒開。

And those two centers, on a like-for-like basis, are performing 1,000, 1,500 basis points above where those similar comp brands are performing across our portfolio. And so that's sort of, to me, the more important metric because they're showing that the money we're putting in, the development we're doing, yeah, we're in a 9%, but we're making the center more relevant.

而這兩個中心，以同店（like-for-like）基礎來看，其表現比我們投資組合中那些相同的可比品牌（comp brands）高出1,000到1,500個基點。所以對我而言，這才是更重要的指標，因為它們顯示我們投入的資金、我們做的開發——是的，我們是在9%的水準——但我們正在讓這個中心更具相關性（更符合市場需求）。

If we make the center more relevant, more customers come, retail sales grow. We're going to add new retailers and how do you do the line and cut the line and say well discounts in the return this doesn't. It's really hard. And so that's why we don't include it. But we know it's there, and it's something that gives us comfort as we look at some of these bigger projects that will start over the next year, whether it's Boca or Ross Park or Fashion Valley or what have you.

如果我們讓中心更具相關性，就會有更多顧客來，零售銷售會成長。我們會引進新的零售商，而你要怎麼畫那條線、切那條線，說哪些折算進報酬、哪些不算？這真的很難。所以這就是為什麼我們不把它納入。但我們知道它存在，而且當我們看接下來一年會啟動的一些更大型專案時——不論是Boca、Ross Park、Fashion Valley或其他——這些都讓我們更有信心。

So I appreciate the question. I wish I had a really good number to show you, but we know it's important. And that's why we're excited about the pipeline. That's why we mentioned on the call is this is an important avenue of growth for us. And I think we've shown we have the ability to execute it. As now, we just have to keep doing that in the years ahead.

所以我很感謝這個問題。我希望我能給你一個非常好的數字來展示，但我們知道它很重要。這也是為什麼我們對這個案源感到興奮。這也是為什麼我們在電話會議上提到，這是我們重要的成長途徑。而且我認為我們已經證明我們有能力執行。現在，我們只需要在未來幾年持續做到這一點。

And Floris, all I would add was that the investment in a project, there are multiple projects over time at properties. And so Roosevelt Field is a great example. We could go down the list of assets that we've redeveloped multiple times over the years and continue to get the appropriate kind of return and the halo effect in the regular part of the shopping center.

另外，Floris，我想補充的是：對一個專案的投資，在同一個物業上，隨著時間推移可能會有多個專案。Roosevelt Field就是一個很好的例子。我們可以列出一長串資產，這些年來我們多次進行改造，並且持續取得適當類型的報酬，以及在購物中心一般區域的光環效應（halo effect）。

Vince Tibone, Green Street Advisors.

Vince Tibone，Green Street Advisors。

Eli, I'm curious where purchasing bake and anchor boxes at your centers that you don't currently own rank in terms of capital priorities? And ultimately, how are you thinking about the value of control of those spaces and being able to get the best use in that space from a tenant redevelopment perspective to unlock all the benefits you just talked about versus letting a third-party owner release that, that presumably only cares about the highest unit economics and less about the mall ecosystem.

Eli，我很好奇：在你們目前尚未擁有的購物中心內，購買大型店盒與主力店盒（anchor boxes），在資本配置優先順序上大概排在哪裡？最終，你們如何看待對這些空間的控制價值？以及從租戶改造的角度，能在該空間導入最佳用途，以釋放你剛才提到的所有效益；相較之下，如果讓第三方業主去重新出租，那對方可能只在乎最高的單位經濟效益，而較不在乎整個商場生態系。

So Simon has been patient and price-sensitive purchased some of these spaces historically. So I'm just kind of curious how you're thinking about it.

所以Simon過去在購買其中一些空間時一直很有耐心、也很在意價格。我只是想了解你們現在是怎麼思考這件事的。

Sure. So I guess, on the second part, obviously, say every mall, but most of these malls have REAs. We have approval rights. So it has to be consistent with the -- again, not to go through the legal language of each one. But so that's in our mind.

當然。我想，先回應第二部分：很明顯地，姑且說每一個商場——但多數這些商場都有REAs（互惠地役權協議）。我們有核准權。所以它必須符合——再說一次，我不逐一引用每一份協議的法律文字。但這點是在我們的考量之中。

But really, we just look at it as what's the price and we evaluate each one independently and say, what would we do here? Do we want it back? Do we have leasing demand? We have leasing demand, okay, how do we lay it out? We'd lay it out. How would we -- what's the construction cost of that? What's the return? Do we think it does anything to the rest of the mall sort of the halo effect Brian mentioned that I was just talking about.

但其實，我們只是把它看成價格是多少，然後我們會把每一個案子獨立評估，並問：我們在這裡會怎麼做？我們想把它買回來嗎？我們有出租需求嗎？我們有出租需求，好，那要怎麼規劃配置？我們就會把它規劃出來。那樣做的施工成本是多少？報酬率是多少？我們是否認為它會對商場其他部分產生任何影響，也就是 Brian 提到、我剛剛在講的那種光環效應。

And so if there's something we really want, we can go and make a call and buy it. But typically, we've seen is we sort of can sit and buy it at the right price. And if you look at the price of some of these boxes that we've been able to get, we're very pleased with them. And obviously, then when we run the return analysis, we're very pleased.

所以如果有我們真的想要的東西，我們可以去打個電話把它買下來。但通常我們看到的是，我們可以坐等在合適的價格買到。而如果你看看我們能拿到的一些這類盒子店的價格，我們對此非常滿意。而且很明顯，當我們做報酬分析時，我們也非常滿意。

And so I don't prioritize anything really from a capital allocation perspective, besides does it -- do we have liquidity for it? Yes, but does it fit with our objectives? And so it's something we will continue to do, obviously, is acquire boxes over time.

所以從資本配置的角度，我其實不會特別優先排序任何事情，除了：我們是否有足夠的流動性來做？有，但它是否符合我們的目標？因此，這會是我們接下來會持續做的事情——很明顯，就是隨著時間推移持續收購盒子店。

But we're only going to do it at the right price and sometimes the right price might be a lot higher than somebody else might have and sometimes the right price might be a lot lower than somebody else might have. And that's fine. And we'll make the decision.

但我們只會在合適的價格才會做；有時候合適的價格可能比別人願意出的高很多，有時候合適的價格也可能比別人願意出的低很多。這都沒問題。我們會做出決定。

Are we okay if somebody else does it? And sometimes, we are okay. And sometimes we're not okay. And then we'll figure out if there's a meeting of the minds and there's a price that we can buy it. So it's something we sort of do day in, day out, no special project, just sort of ordinary course business.

如果別人去做，我們能接受嗎？有時候我們可以接受。有時候我們不能接受。然後我們就會看看是否能達成共識，是否有一個我們可以買下來的價格。所以這就是我們日常在做的事，沒有什麼特別專案，就是一般正常營運的一部分。

And so to the extent we have opportunities to buy it at good prices and have redevelopment plans, we'll buy for sure. And if you look at some of the projects that hopefully we announced over the next year or so, a number of them will be in boxes that we bought, that we think we bought it at an attractive price and allowed these redevelopments to pencil.

所以只要我們有機會以好價格買到，並且有重建／改造計畫，我們肯定會買。而如果你看看我們希望在未來一年左右宣布的一些專案，其中有不少會是在我們買下來的盒子店裡；我們認為買價很有吸引力，也讓這些改造案在財務上算得過去。

And so that's what we're focused on and we're in this business for a long time. And so if we get them today or if we get them in a year, two years, five years, we'll be -- we'll do the right decision for the mall and for the capital -- for our capital allocation.

這就是我們的重點，而且我們會在這個產業做很久。所以不管是今天拿到、或一年、兩年、五年後拿到，我們都會——我們會做出對商場、以及對資本——對我們資本配置而言正確的決策。

Craig Mailman, Citigroup.

Craig Mailman，花旗集團。

Clearly, it doesn't feel like you guys have capital constraints here with the liquidity and the free cash flow. Just kind of curious from the platform, how much development do you think you could handle at one time and continue to source new entitlements and new opportunities? Like is there a limit in the near term or do you guys have significant excess capacity?

很明顯，從你們的流動性和自由現金流來看，感覺你們在資本上並沒有約束。我有點好奇，從平台能力來看，你們覺得同一時間能承接多少開發案，並且還能持續取得新的核准（entitlements）和新機會？短期內有上限嗎？還是你們其實有相當大的閒置產能？

Yeah. I mean from a capital perspective, significant excess capacity for sure. From a resources perspective, at the end of the day, these are all highly local processes, which often involves outside council, outside advisers, et cetera. And so the team is doing a great job. We have a number of projects. I don't feel that's an issue at all to extend.

是的。我的意思是，從資本角度來看，確實有相當大的閒置產能。從資源角度來看，說到底，這些都是高度在地化的流程，通常會涉及外部律師、外部顧問等等。而團隊做得非常好。我們有不少專案。我完全不覺得這會是擴展上的問題。

We thought it was an issue. We could add human resources highly accretively given what we're talking about, the potential EBITDA or NOI creation from these assets. And so we feel very good about the pipeline.

如果我們覺得這是個問題，考量到我們在談的這些資產可能帶來的 EBITDA 或 NOI 增量，我們可以非常具增益性地增加人力資源。

I'd say the only thing that's out of our control or we're dealing with local municipalities and villages or townships depending on what the -- where the mall is located, that's out of our control. So if we could find a way to do that faster, that would be great. But unfortunately, you're dealing with elected officials, appointed officials, what have you. And so that's the one thing that's out of our control. The rest of it's in our control, and I feel very good that we can execute on that.

我會說唯一不在我們掌控之內的，是我們必須和地方市政府、村鎮或鄉鎮打交道——取決於商場所在地——這部分不在我們控制範圍內。所以如果能找到方法讓這些流程更快，那會很棒。但不幸的是，你得面對民選官員、任命官員等等。所以這是唯一不在我們掌控之內的事情。其他都在我們掌控之內，我對我們能把它執行好非常有信心。

And then obviously, the last piece is we always have the ability to bring in partners on some of the stuff, if we want it. We've done it on multifamily projects. We've done it on a few hotels. We financed some with construction financing.

然後很明顯，最後一塊是：如果我們想要，我們永遠有能力在某些項目上引入合作夥伴。我們在多戶住宅專案上做過。我們在幾個飯店案上也做過。有些我們用建築融資來籌資。

But I look at it and say, as I said, we're generating $1.6 billion of free cash flow after dividends. And this stuff takes time to build and it doesn't start at the same time. So -- and plus, we're basically under 5 times levered now, too. So one turn of leverage is $6 billion-plus of capacity. So that is like not close to a thought in my mind.

但我看這件事會說，如我所說，我們在支付股利之後仍能產生 16 億美元的自由現金流。而這些案子需要時間建造，而且不會在同一時間點開工。再加上，我們現在的槓桿倍數也基本上低於 5 倍。所以多加一圈槓桿就有 60 億美元以上的容量。所以這在我腦中根本不是一個需要擔心的問題。

Brian, anything?

Brian，有要補充的嗎？

No, look, we're accelerating. At the end of the day, Craig, you can see it. You heard Eli talk about it. You have great opportunities ahead of us. And so you should expect us to continue to realize and accelerate on those investment opportunities.

沒有。你看，我們正在加速。說到底，Craig，你看得出來。你也聽到 Eli 談到了。我們面前有很好的機會。所以你應該預期我們會持續把握並加速推進這些投資機會。

We can do things that others can't and quite honestly, aren't. And so what we're delivering today is new product. There is no new product being built, and we believe that's a durable competitive advantage.

我們能做別人做不到的事，而且坦白說，別人也沒有在做。所以我們今天交付的是新產品。目前沒有新的產品在興建，而我們相信這是一個持久的競爭優勢。

Haendel St. Juste, Mizuho Securities.

Haendel St. Juste，瑞穗證券。

We've got a quick two-parter on the core portfolio. First, on same-store NOI, up a robust 6.7% in the first quarter. So I guess I'm curious if there's any change to the initial guide, at least 3%. Can you supply some clear decel here over the next few quarters or maybe we're not appreciating something there?

我們有關於核心投資組合的兩個簡短問題。第一，第一季同店 NOI 強勁成長 6.7%。所以我想問的是，對於最初的指引（至少 3%）是否有任何變動？接下來幾季是否會出現明顯的放緩，還是我們可能忽略了某些因素？

And then maybe can you share some color on the current snow pipeline right now? What's the embedded NOI and when do you expect that to come online?

第二，能否分享一下目前的 snow 管線狀況？其中隱含的 NOI 是多少？你們預期何時會開始貢獻？

I'll just do the first part. So the same-store NOI, we don't call it that. It's domestic NOI. And so that 6.7% for the quarter, as Brian said, is really call it, 120 basis points of that is from the 12% stake but we bought in Taubman last, I guess, November 1. And so that will obviously play through our results for the second quarter and the third quarter and a little bit a little bit less, obviously, in the fourth quarter. And so we'll probably have, call it, plus or minus 100 basis points impact on the year.

我先回答第一部分。所以同店 NOI——我們不這樣稱呼。我們稱它為國內 NOI。因此本季的 6.7%，如 Brian 所說，其中大概有 120 個基點來自我們在 Taubman 的 12% 持股，我們是在去年大概 11 月 1 日買入的。所以這會很明顯地在第二季、第三季反映在我們的結果中，而在第四季會稍微少一點、當然會少一些。因此全年大概會有正負約 100 個基點的影響。

We don't update guidance. We guided to at least 3%. I think we've guided to at least 3% for a number of years. Now, our job is to outperform that. Obviously, we have a good start to the year, and so we'll just continue doing what we're doing, but we really don't update that guidance besides obviously, I just wanted to clarify about the Taubman or the former Taubman stake and then Brian on the [snow].

我們不更新財測指引。我們給出的指引是至少 3%。我想我們多年來一直給出的指引都是至少 3%。現在，我們的工作就是要超越這個目標。顯然，我們今年開局不錯，所以我們會繼續做我們正在做的事，但我們確實不會更新那個指引；當然，我只是想釐清一下關於 Taubman 或先前 Taubman 持股的部分，然後 Brian 關於[snow]。

Yes. No, snow, at the end of the quarter was 310 basis points, Haendel. Usually, you see an increase in our business in the first quarter and then it dissipates as the quarter goes down as tenants open. But 310 basis points, which was consistent with first quarter at 25 type of level.

是的。不，Haendel，季末的 snow 是 310 個基點。通常你會看到我們的業務在第一季增加，然後隨著租戶開業、季度往後推進而逐步消退。但 310 個基點，與第一季約 25 這種水準一致。

Mike Mueller, JPMorgan.

Mike Mueller，摩根大通。

Actually, I have a follow-up on the prior question. How much of an impact did the buyout have TRG buy on your operating stats like the year-over-year sales comps and the 5% base menu rent growth?

其實我想就前一個問題追問一下。TRG 的收購對你們的營運指標（例如年對年銷售同店成長，以及 5% 的基本底租成長）造成了多大影響？

Yes. So honestly, we don't look at it. We look at it and say these -- I guess it's 18 assets domestically, right? There are assets -- they're Simon assets. Besides the NOI growth, which -- or the domestic property NOI, which is a little skewed from the 12% stake.

是的。所以老實說，我們不會那樣看。我們看它並認為這些——我想在美國國內是 18 項資產，對吧？這些資產——它們是 Simon 的資產。除了 NOI 成長（或國內物業 NOI）之外，因為 12% 持股的關係，數字會有點被扭曲。

We don't -- honestly, we don't look at it. I don't know. We don't they're all SPG assets. And so that's the way we operate them. That's the way we lease them. That's the way we account for them. That's the way we think about them.

我們不——老實說，我們不會那樣看。我不知道。我們不——它們全都是 SPG 的資產。所以我們就是用這種方式來營運它們。我們就是用這種方式來出租它們。我們就是用這種方式來入帳它們。我們就是用這種方式來思考它們。

So the honest answer is, I don't know. It did increase it, I guess, maybe, but we don't really think it matters. We think it matters that they are assets that we're operating, and they're part of our cash flow, and we're growing the cash flow.

所以誠實的答案是，我不知道。我想它確實提高了（數字），也許吧，但我們不太認為那很重要。我們認為重要的是，這些是我們正在營運的資產，它們是我們現金流的一部分，而我們正在成長這些現金流。

Rich Hightower, Barclays.

Rich Hightower，巴克萊。

Maybe one for Brian to go back to the Crystals CMBS financing. And as I kind of look through the debt schedule, obviously, you've got a number of secured debt financing is kind of coming due over the course of '26 and '27.

也許請 Brian 回到 Crystals 的 CMBS 融資這題。我在看債務到期表時，顯然你們有不少擔保融資會在 26 年與 27 年陸續到期。

So maybe just fill us in with color on the market spreads proceeds and maybe what the -- I'm assuming it's another interest expense headwind as you think about refinancing over the next couple of years given the rates on a lot of these loans. So just help us understand the big parts.

所以能否補充一些市場利差、可取得的資金（proceeds）等方面的說明？另外，我猜想在未來幾年再融資時，考量到許多貸款的利率，這會是另一個利息費用的逆風。請幫我們理解主要的幾個部分。

Sure, Rich. No problem. Great question. We -- Crystals was a great execution, five-year CMBS, 480 coupon which was incredible, probably the tightest coupon we've seen in the last four years, but we're pricing off of a higher base rate. So even with that incredible coupon, we're rolling up that interest expense about 60 basis points-plus.

當然，Rich。沒問題。問得很好。我們——Crystals 的執行非常成功，是五年期 CMBS，票息 480，這非常驚人，可能是我們過去四年看到最緊的票息，但我們是以更高的基準利率來定價。所以即便票息如此出色，我們的利息費用仍上升了 60 個基點以上。

The rest of the balance of the portfolio refinancing we did on average. The coupon is up are about 50 basis points relative to maturing, so we are still seeing interest expense headwinds as we anticipated. While the spreads are at record types, we are still seeing impacts from base rates.

至於投資組合其餘部分的再融資，我們平均來看，票息相較到期的貸款約上升 50 個基點，因此如我們預期，利息費用仍面臨逆風。雖然利差處於創紀錄水準，我們仍受到基準利率的影響。

But markets are wide open. We've been active in the CMBS market. We've been active in the life market. We've obviously been active in the unsecured market; we expect to continue for the balance of the year. But the original $0.25 to $0.30 headwind that we expected between higher interest expense and lower interest income is still there. It probably is gravitating closer to the $0.25 versus the $0.30 today where rates are, but there's definitely still a headwind ahead of us balance of the year.

但市場非常暢通。我們一直積極參與 CMBS 市場。我們也積極參與壽險資金市場。我們當然也積極參與無擔保市場；我們預期在今年剩餘時間會持續如此。不過，我們原先預期因利息費用上升與利息收入下降所帶來的每股 0.25 到 0.30 美元逆風仍然存在。以目前利率水準來看，它可能更接近 0.25 美元而非 0.30 美元，但今年剩餘時間我們前方確實仍有逆風。

With no further questions, I would like to turn the conference back over to Eli Simon for closing remarks.

如果沒有進一步的問題，我想把電話會議交回給 Eli Simon 作結語。

Thank you, everybody, for the time today and look forward to hopefully seeing many of you in Vegas or in New York in the coming weeks.

謝謝各位今天撥冗參與，也期待在接下來幾週能在拉斯維加斯或紐約見到各位中的許多人。

Thank you. This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect at this time, and thank you for your participation.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以掛線，感謝您的參與。