Companhia Siderurgica Nacional SA (SID) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for holding. At this time, we would like to welcome everyone to CSN's conference call to present the results for the fourth quarter '23. Today, we have with us the company's executive officers.

早安，女士們先生們，感謝你們的支持。此時，我們歡迎大家參加 CSN 電話會議，介紹 23 年第四季的業績。今天，我們有公司的執行官。

We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded and all participants will be in listen-only mode during the company presentation. (Operator Instructions) This event is being webcast through Internet and can be accessed at ri.csn.com.br, where the presentation is also available. The replay of this event will be available for a period of seven days.

我們謹通知您，該活動正在錄製中，所有參與者在公司演示期間都將處於僅聽模式。（操作員說明） 本次活動透過網路進行網路直播，可在 ri.csn.com.br 觀看，也可在該網站上觀看示範。本次活動的重播將持續 7 天。

Before proceeding, please be advised that some of the statements herein are mere expectations or trends and are based on current assumptions and opinions of the company management. Performance and events may differ materially from those expressed herein, which do not constitute projection.

在繼續之前，請注意，本文中的一些陳述僅僅是預期或趨勢，並且基於公司管理層當前的假設和意見。性能和事件可能與此處表達的內容有重大差異，這並不構成預測。

In fact, actual results, performance, or events may differ materially from those expressed or implied by forward-looking statements as a result of several factors, such as overall and economic conditions in Brazil and other countries; interest rates and exchange rate levels; future rescheduling or prepayment of debt denominated in foreign currencies; protectionist measures in the US, Brazil, and other countries; changes in laws and regulations; and general competitive factors at a global, regional, or national level.

事實上，由於多種因素的影響，例如巴西和其他國家的整體和經濟狀況，實際結果、績效或事件可能與前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的結果、績效或事件有重大差異；利率和匯率水準；未來重新安排或提前償還以外幣計價的債務；美國、巴西和其他國家的保護主義措施；法律法規的變化；全球、區域或國家層面的一般競爭因素。

I would now like to turn the floor over to Mr. Marcelo Cunha Ribeiro, CFO and Investor Relations Executive Officer. He will present the operational and financial highlights for the period. Mr. Ribeiro, you may proceed.

現在我想請財務長兼投資者關係執行長馬塞洛·庫尼亞·裡貝羅 (Marcelo Cunha Ribeiro) 先生發言。他將介紹該期間的營運和財務亮點。裡貝羅先生，您可以繼續了。

Good morning, everybody, and thank you for attending CSN's conference call. As usual, I will go on to the presentation. And before going on to the question-and-answer session, I will give the floor to Mr. Benjamin Steinbruch.

大家早安，感謝大家參加 CSN 的電話會議。像往常一樣，我將繼續進行演示。在進入問答環節之前，我將請本傑明·斯坦布魯赫先生發言。

Now we had a strong EBITDA of BRL3.6 billion in the fourth quarter, confirming the robustness of the CN model of diversification, integration, and verticalization, reaching an EBITDA margin of 29% even in difficult moments for the production of steel and because of the prices that are dropping. Despite this, we achieved the best results in the year through this diversification.

現在，我們第四季度的 EBITDA 高達 36 億雷亞爾，證實了 CN 多元化、一體化和垂直化模式的穩健性，即使在鋼鐵生產的困難時期，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率仍達到 29%，因為正在下降的價格。儘管如此，我們透過這種多元化取得了今年最好的業績。

Second highlight is strong cash generation, BRL387 million, which enabled us to reduce our indebtedness. Even with seasonality, we have better sales of cement and steel. And as a third highlight, for a second consecutive quarter, we were able to decline the leverage rate. So we have had a significant reduction.

第二個亮點是強勁的現金產生能力，達 3.87 億雷亞爾，這使我們能夠減少債務。即使有季節性因素，我們的水泥和鋼材銷售情況也較好。第三個亮點是，我們連續第二個季度降低了槓桿率。所以我們大幅減少了。

Now to continue on with the presentation on page 4, we see the EBITDA evolution. We ended the year with the strongest EBITDA margin, BRL3.6 million, a growth of almost 30% sequentially, thanks to the excellent performance of mining. But all of the businesses in the company contributed.

現在繼續第 4 頁的演示，我們看到 EBITDA 的演進。由於採礦業的出色表現，我們的 EBITDA 利潤率在 2019 年達到了 360 萬雷亞爾的最高水平，環比增長了近 30%。但公司的所有業務都做出了貢獻。

In steel, we practically increased the results twofold. We had a good performance in price, which was surprising because of the poor price behavior. But we focused on volume. In cement, we had good results with the seasonality hampering results at the end of the year. And in MRS, very good results as well as in energy because of the recent price recovery of energy in the Brazilian market. We ended the year at BRL11.9 million, a decrease vis-a-vis 2022 because of the more difficult moment in the steel sector.

在鋼鐵方面，我們實際上將結果提高了一倍。我們在價格方面表現良好，這令人驚訝，因為價格行為不佳。但我們專注於數量。在水泥方面，我們在年底的季節性因素影響下取得了良好的業績。由於最近巴西市場能源價格的回升，MRS 以及能源領域取得了非常好的成果。年底，我們的收入為 1,190 萬雷亞爾，較 2022 年有所下降，因為鋼鐵業正面臨更困難的時期。

We continue to speak about cash generation. We had an important evolution in the CapEx for half of the year. Perhaps this was the highest CapEx, BRL1.6 million. It's good news because it shows the rapid evolution of projects that are relevant for the company.

我們繼續談論現金生成。今年半年我們的資本支出發生了重要變化。也許這是最高的資本支出，160 萬雷亞爾。這是個好消息，因為它顯示了與公司相關的專案的快速發展。

In the case of mining, not only P15 has progressed steadily. But we have a more robust sustaining, showing good results in the short term, a better result at the port. And this is how we will continue going forward as we are aligned with the guidance for 2024.

在挖礦方面，不僅P15進展順利。但我們有更強的支撐，短期內表現出良好的業績，在港口取得更好的成績。這就是我們在與 2024 年指導方針保持一致時繼續前進的方式。

In the case of steel, this additional CapEx was used in the reform of the coke batteries. Our cost here was significant, and we have accelerated the operational recovery of important parts of our production process, the steel mills sintering. So this CapEx had been planned, and it will enable us to reach our results in 2024.

就鋼鐵而言，額外的資本支出用於焦炭電池的改革。我們在這裡付出的成本是巨大的，我們加快了生產過程中重要部分（鋼廠燒結）的營運恢復。因此，這項資本支出是我們計劃好的，它將使我們能夠在 2024 年實現我們的業績。

In working capital, we had a natural increase in inventory, offset, of course, with the term given to suppliers and in line with the normalization of our lines. We continue on with the BRL400-and-some million for our cash flow.

在營運資金方面，我們的庫存自然增加，當然，這是根據給予供應商的期限以及我們生產線的正常化而抵消的。我們繼續使用 400 雷亞爾和大約 100 萬雷亞爾的現金流。

Cash flow is very close to being neutral. It's a combination of a strong cash generation in mining and a more difficult year in steel, where the margins are tighter, and, of course, significant CapEx for the projects. But it shows you how robust our model is. It allows this cash generation at difficult moments of the production. We had an EBITDA; we used our CapEx; and, of course, we had income tax.

現金流非常接近中性。這是採礦業強勁的現金產生能力和鋼鐵業更加困難的一年的結合，鋼鐵業的利潤率更加緊張，當然，項目的資本支出也很大。但它向您展示了我們的模型有多穩健。它可以在生產的困難時刻產生現金。我們有 EBITDA；我們使用了我們的資本支出；當然，我們還有所得稅。

Now on the next page, cash generation was relevant for the second consecutive quarter. It helped us reduce our leverage, practically reaching our guidance of 2.5 times at the end of 2023, but still far of what we would like to do to reach the 2 times at the end of 2024.

現在在下一頁，現金產生連續第二季相關。它幫助我們降低了槓桿率，實際上在 2023 年底達到了 2.5 倍的指導，但距離我們希望在 2024 年底達到 2 倍的目標還有很大差距。

We're fully committed to this figure. And throughout 2024, the tendency is to reach that level not only because of EBITDA evolution, but we're also seeking a partner for our energy business. This allows us to think we will have a reduction.

我們完全致力於這個數字。在整個 2024 年，趨勢是達到這一水平，不僅因為 EBITDA 的演變，而且我們也在為我們的能源業務尋找合作夥伴。這讓我們認為我們將會減少。

Net debt, very close to the level of the third quarter, with an evolution of 2.5%, thanks to the cash generation and an exchange rate that was favorable, offset by the dividends paid in the period, and because of the MRS that is partially consolidated and leading to greater investments to renew the concession. This means we will have a better operational performance of this subsidiary. And this proportional consolidation should not have an impact on our position of indebtedness.

淨債務，非常接近第三季度的水平，增長了 2.5%，這要歸功於現金生成和有利的匯率，被該期間支付的股息所抵消，並且由於 MRS 部分鞏固並導致更大的投資來更新特許權。這意味著我們該子公司將擁有更好的經營績效。這種比例合併不應該對我們的負債狀況產生影響。

In times of net debt, it was higher this quarter by BRL48 million because of the fundraising we carried out in the international market at the end of 2023. We have reached our highest levels of BRL16 billion. But this is important because of the maturities that we have and the banking debt in 2024/'25. This level of liquidity will enable us to manage the short-term liabilities with comfort and efficiency. We will continue using the capital market to lighten up our indebtedness.

在淨債務時期，由於我們於 2023 年底在國際市場上進行了融資，本季淨債務增加了 4,800 萬雷亞爾。我們已達到 160 億雷亞爾的最高水準。但這很重要，因為我們的到期日和 2024/25 年的銀行債務。這種流動性水準將使我們能夠輕鬆且有效率地管理短期負債。我們將繼續利用資本市場來減輕債務負擔。

We have two good outlooks of using incentivized instruments for the short term at CSN Mining and our subsidiary. So this is the path of a continuous lengthening and efficiency in management of the indebtedness.

我們對 CSN Mining 和我們的子公司在短期內使用激勵工具有兩個良好的前景。因此，這就是債務管理不斷延長和提高效率的路徑。

Besides a reduction of our debts, of course, this should allow us to materialize this positive outlook to have a good new upgrade at the end of the year. In a medium and long term, we will continue towards achieving an investment grade, which is one of our strategic goals.

當然，除了減少我們的債務之外，這也應該使我們能夠實現這一積極的前景，以便在年底進行良好的新升級。從中長期來看，我們將繼續實現投資級別，這是我們的策略目標之一。

To speak about steel, we highlight the evolution of volume. For the fourth consecutive quarter, we had growth in the domestic market. And this is a clear indication of the recovery we had after a very limited first half in terms of volumes at the steel mill, ending the year with -- the quarter with the best volume. Despite this, we had a drop of 5% during the year due to this issue and due to, perhaps, hyperbolic and unloyal competition of imported steel.

談到鋼鐵，我們將重點放在體積的演變。我們的國內市場連續第四個季度實現成長。這清楚地表明，在鋼廠上半年的產量非常有限之後，我們已經開始復甦，到了今年年底，該季度的產量是最好的。儘管如此，由於這個問題，也許是由於進口鋼材的雙曲線和不忠誠的競爭，我們今年的產量下降了 5%。

In net revenues, we had a positive evolution. This is the eighth consecutive quarter of price drops in the domestic market. We had an update in prices internationally, especially in the United States. The average price increased vis-a-vis the third quarter for the first time in many years, and this is a good forecast of what we may see during 2024.

在淨收入方面，我們取得了積極的進展。這已是國內市場價格連續第八個季度下跌。我們更新了國際價格，尤其是美國的價格。與第三季相比，平均價格多年來首次上漲，這是 2024 年可能出現的情況的良好預測。

We have already announced prices, and it shows our capacity to react on this top line for the coming quarters. Regarding EBITDA, we increased it twofold with very low margins in the third quarter. We have reached 6%, and we had a positive evolution in costs.

我們已經公佈了價格，這表明我們有能力在未來幾季對此營收做出反應。關於 EBITDA，我們在第三季將其成長了一倍，但利潤率非常低。我們已經達到了 6%，而且成本也有了正面的改變。

In the next slide, we see that we had 900 tons of plate processing during the half of the year, as we mentioned in the third quarter. And because of normalization of raw material, this is the third consecutive quarter for a drop in prices.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們看到我們在上半年加工了 900 噸板材，正如我們在第三季度提到的那樣。而且由於原料正常化，這已是價格連續第三季下降。

And of course, the unit EBITDA is still far from what it should be at this moment of the steel cycle. There is a great deal of space to continue improving not only because of the market, but because of our operational evolution. We're convinced that throughout the semesters, we will have a sequential enhancement of this indicator.

當然，單位 EBITDA 仍遠未達到鋼鐵週期當前階段的應有水準。持續改進的空間很大，不僅因為市場，而且因為我們的營運演變。我們相信，在整個學期中，我們將逐步提高這項指標。

We will now speak about mining that had a very strong year, almost perfect operational performance that was truly very good throughout the process, beginning with the mine, the central plant, filtering, loading at the port. And that is why we had these production and sales records going beyond our guidance for the year, a growth of sales of 28%, which is quite atypical in an operation of our size.

我們現在要談談採礦業，這一年表現非常強勁，營運績效近乎完美，從礦場、中央工廠、過濾、港口裝載開始，整個流程都非常好。這就是為什麼我們的生產和銷售記錄超出了我們今年的指導，銷售額增長了 28%，這對於我們這樣規模的企業來說是相當不尋常的。

This was accompanied by a good evolution in the market and a drop in prices. The unit price increased more than 20% not only because of a good level of iron ore prices internationally, but due to our quality that has had a good evolution.

伴隨著市場的良好發展和價格的下降。單價上漲超過20%不僅因為國際鐵礦石​​價格水準較高，還因為我們的品質有了很好的發展。

The central plant is working better. We increased the steel content, and we're also at a very positive moment because the Chinese steel is seeking iron ore that has a lower quality and low margins. So we had margins above 54% and EBITDA of BRL2.7 million because of a lower cost not only because of operation, but because we had a greater amount of our own iron ore. And all of this has benefited us with these high margins.

中央工廠運作得更好。我們增加了鋼鐵含量，我們也處於一個非常積極的時刻，因為中國鋼鐵正在尋找品質較低、利潤較低的鐵礦石。因此，我們的利潤率超過 54%，EBITDA 達到 270 萬雷亞爾，這不僅是因為營運成本較低，而且因為我們擁有更多的自有鐵礦石。所有這一切都使我們受益於高利潤。

We see this very clearly in the next slide. We show you that all of the variables were positive, aiding and abetting the results. We only had drops because of seasonality, offset by a better mix, better quality, less purchase from third parties, lower cost, higher prices. And also because of the increase of provisions, We got to an EBITDA of BRL2.7 billion.

我們在下一張投影片中可以清楚地看到這一點。我們向您展示所有變數都是正面的，有助於和促進結果。我們只是因為季節性而有所下降，但被更好的組合、更好的品質、更少的第三方購買、更低的成本、更高的價格所抵消。而且由於準備金的增加，我們的 EBITDA 達到了 27 億雷亞爾。

Regarding cement, we continue to have a very robust sales volume, which testifies to our capacity of distribution through the new platform. We are working with Lafarge-Holcim. We have a growth year on year of 7%, a market environment where the market had a retraction. Once again, this points to our capacity of working better with fragmented markets and better logistic.

在水泥方面，我們繼續擁有非常強勁的銷量，這證明了我們透過新平台的分銷能力。我們正在與拉法基豪瑞合作。我們年增7%，是市場出現回縮的市場環境。這再次表明我們有能力更好地處理分散的市場和更好的物流。

And because of seasonality, a slight drop of 4%, a drop of revenue of 6%. And the average prices are responsible for this because of seasonality and because we're still recovering from the retail construction. We believe that 2024 will allow for better readjustments as we have a better demand.

而且由於季節性的原因，小幅下降了4%，收入下降了6%。造成這種情況的原因是平均價格，原因是季節性，而且我們仍在從零售建設中恢復過來。我們相信2024年會有更好的調整，因為我們有更好的需求。

But even with lower average prices, we had a positive evolution of margin, thanks to the synergy of expenses and costs that enabled us to get to an EBITDA margin of 24%. Seeking the margins we had before the integration with Lafarge-Holcim that were 30%, this is what we will seek for the coming quarters.

但即使平均價格較低，我們的利潤率仍取得了積極的發展，這要歸功於費用和成本的協同作用，使我們的 EBITDA 利潤率達到了 24%。我們在與 Lafarge-Holcim 整合之前尋求 30% 的利潤率，這就是我們在未來幾季所尋求的目標。

With this, we end the presentation of the business. I give the floor to Helena to speak about ESG.

至此，我們的業務介紹就結束了。我請 Helena 談談 ESG。

Good day, everybody. Thank you for the opportunity of presenting our results for the quarter. Now these results are presented through an independent specific release. And the data is consolidated and will be published in an integrated report in April.

大家好。感謝您有機會介紹我們本季的業績。現在這些結果透過獨立的特定版本呈現。這些數據經過整合後將於四月以綜合報告的形式發布。

As the main highlights of the period, we have maintained the stability of our dams. In '23, we went from Level 2 to 3. In July, we have a request for recognition of this stability, and the license will be issued now after an auditing.

作為這段時期的主要亮點，我們保持了大壩的穩定。23 年，我們從 2 級升至 3 級。7月份，我們收到了對這種穩定性的認可請求，現在將在審核後頒發許可證。

We also had an evolution, of course. We ended up with the lowest accident frequency rate, and this includes all types of accidents. And in December, we began a specific program to prevent accidents with high fatality rates.

當然，我們也經歷了演變。我們最終獲得了最低的事故頻率，其中包括所有類型的事故。12 月，我們啟動了一項具體計劃，以預防高死亡率事故。

A great highlight for the period is our new goal for cement, a new target. And this goal, of course, will be aligned with the global indices. Now, cement corresponded to more than 40% of our rates in CSN, the highest in the group.

這時期的一大亮點是我們對水泥的新目標、新目標。當然，這一目標將與全球指數保持一致。現在，水泥佔 CSN 費率的 40% 以上，是集團中最高的。

We continue to make strides in diversity, especially when it comes to the representativity of women. We went up to 60% in 2023 with specific advances of women in roles of leadership.

我們在多元化方面繼續取得長足進步，特別是在女性代表性方面。隨著女性在領導職位上的具體進步，我們在 2023 年將這一比例提高到了 60%。

And finally, the evolution of the company and the main ratings of the world, S&P, our results in CDP -- perhaps this CDP has one of the largest data bank in the world, and we are part of that platform. We are leaders in environmental management in a scale that disclose their results.

最後，公司的發展和世界主要評級、標準普爾、我們在 CDP 中的結果——也許這個 CDP 擁有世界上最大的資料庫之一，而我們是該平台的一部分。我們是環境管理領域的領導者，在規模上公開了他們的結果。

And we went from B in 2019, we got to A-minus in 2023, and all of this referring to water safety and several other indicators. And all of our platforms have this level of performance, and you can observe the great challenge it has been to achieve these figures.

我們從 2019 年的 B 級到 2023 年的 A-級，所有這些都涉及水安全和其他幾個指標。我們所有的平台都具有這種水準的效能，您可以看到實現這些數字所面臨的巨大挑戰。

Thank you once again for your attendance.

再次感謝您的出席。

Thank you, Helena. And before we go on to the questions, we would like to turn the floor over to our Chairman, Mr. Benjamin Steinbruch.

謝謝你，海倫娜。在我們繼續提問之前，我們想請我們的主席本傑明·斯坦布魯赫先生發言。

Good morning, everybody. Thank you for attending the CSN earnings conference call. I would like to address a few words to you, basically referring to last year.

大家早安。感謝您參加 CSN 財報電話會議。我想跟大家講幾句話，主要是指去年的情況。

Our business is very -- generally did very well with a greater focus on steel. As you know, in cement, we worked very well, almost 3 million tons with a margin that is once again going back to what it used to be. Marcelo mentioned that we had 30% before we acquired Lafarge-Holcim. We are resuming to those levels. We have 24% of margin. And of course, we will continue to seek out the 30%.

我們的業務總體上表現非常好，並且更加關注鋼鐵。如您所知，在水泥方面，我們工作得很好，產量接近 300 萬噸，利潤率再次回到了以前的水平。馬塞洛提到，在收購拉法基-豪瑞之前，我們擁有 30% 的股份。我們正在恢復到這些水平。我們有24%的利潤。當然，我們將繼續尋找那 30%。

And because of the maturity and the growing synergies of our businesses, we will be able to continue recovering these margins. Working fully has always been our purpose, to work at full steam and to intelligently work with the distribution of cement throughout the Brazilian territory.

由於我們業務的成熟和協同效應的不斷增強，我們將能夠繼續恢復這些利潤。全力工作一直是我們的宗旨，全速工作並明智地在整個巴西領土上分配水泥。

Logistics and infrastructure with a very good performance. MRS Tecon, Tecar, and the Northeast railroad and the Transnordestina railroad at a somewhat more accelerated pace at present. And they have proven to be very good businesses, important for the future of the CSN Group.

物流和基礎設施有著非常好的表現。MRS Tecon、Tecar、Northeast 鐵路和 Transnordestina 鐵路目前的建設速度已加快。事實證明，它們是非常優秀的業務，對 CSN 集團的未來非常重要。

In energy, the prices have been reacting quite speedily and with increases which allows us to believe that the year 2024 will end up being a very positive year for energy business. Mining, as you were able to see, was excellent. It continues to have an excellent performance, where the growth not only in terms of quantity, but also quality. We had good deliveries last year. And without a doubt, we will perform even better this year, of course, continuing on with the pace of growth that we showed in the third and fourth quarters of 2023.

在能源方面，價格反應相當迅速，而且不斷上漲，這讓我們相信 2024 年最終將成為能源業務非常積極的一年。正如您所看到的，採礦業非常出色。它繼續保持著優異的業績，成長不僅體現在數量上，而且體現在品質上。去年我們的交貨情況良好。毫無疑問，我們今年的表現會更好，當然，會繼續保持 2023 年第三季和第四季的成長速度。

And steel has now moved away from that uncomfortable situation we placed ourselves in. We already have results that are better not only in terms of quantity, but also decrease of costs. And in the last quarter of last year, we were able to show that the first quarter of 2024, the improvement should continue on.

鋼鐵現在已經擺脫了我們所處的那種不舒服的境地。我們已經取得了更好的成果，不僅在數量方面，而且在成本方面也有所下降。在去年最後一個季度，我們能夠證明，到 2024 年第一季度，這種改善應該會繼續下去。

All of the measures that had to be adopted have been taken. And we believe we will continue on with our recovery when it comes to the amounts produced as well as regarding the lower cost that we are seeking actively, which is part of our job.

所有必須採取的措施都已採取。我們相信，當涉及生產量以及我們正在積極尋求的較低成本時，我們將繼續恢復，這是我們工作的一部分。

Now with this, our growth policy, which is the main premise that we work with, followed by a deleveraging that we mentioned, should stand at 2.5 times. We intend to continue to reduce this leverage even with the growth and the payout of dividends.

現在，我們的成長政策（這是我們工作的主要前提），以及我們提到的去槓桿化，應該保持在2.5倍。即使在成長和支付股息的情況下，我們仍打算繼續降低槓桿率。

As you know, we're seeking a partner for the energy business. We have that desire to open up our capital in cement to hold an IPO. And we're also interested in seeking out more capital for the challenges we face in mining.

如您所知，我們正在尋找能源業務合作夥伴。我們希望開放水泥資本來進行首次公開發行。我們也有興趣尋找更多資金來應對採礦業面臨的挑戰。

With all of this done, I am convinced that we will continue to grow. We will continue to deleverage, pay out dividends, and enhancing the longevity of our businesses. Basically, this is what I wanted to mention.

完成這一切後，我相信我們將繼續成長。我們將繼續去槓桿、派發股利、提高企業的壽命。基本上，這就是我想提的。

Thank you very much for your attention. We can go on to the questions and answers.

非常感謝您的關注。我們可以繼續提問和回答。

Thank you. We will now go on to the question-and-answer session for investors and analysts. (Operator Instructions) Daniel Sasson, Itaú BBA.

謝謝。我們現在將進入投資者和分析師的問答環節。（操作員說明）Daniel Sasson，Itañ BBA。

Good morning. Thank you all. Thank you for taking my question. My first question is to Benjamin. In your final statement, you said you're taking capital for the challenges you have in mining. Would it make sense to hold a follow-on operation to raise cash for mining and perhaps increase the company's free float? Or is this not the option?

早安.謝謝你們。感謝您回答我的問題。我的第一個問題是問本傑明。在您的最後聲明中，您表示您正在利用資金來應對採礦業面臨的挑戰。進行後續業務以籌集採礦現金並可能增加公司的自由流通量是否有意義？或者這不是這個選擇？

Perhaps you're referring to strategic partnerships or a presale of iron ore through agreements, as you announced previously with Glencore, along those lines. And attempt of IPO for the cement business perhaps could be something for the short term. You attempted to do this in the past, and I believe the unit is one step ahead of all others. So which are the preparations to replicate this intention of having each CSN vertical becoming self-sufficient, standalone companies with more currency to grow?

也許您指的是戰略合作夥伴關係或透過協議預售鐵礦石，正如您之前與嘉能可宣布的那樣。水泥業務的IPO嘗試也許是短期之舉。你們過去曾嘗試過這樣做，我相信該單位比其他單位領先一步。那麼，要複製這個意圖，讓每個 CSN 垂直產業成為自給自足、獨立的公司，並擁有更多的資金來發展，需要做哪些準備呢？

My second question refers to Martinez. Martinez, we have seen an improvement in the steel production cost with the price of steel dropping in the domestic market. This hampers your margin. We see that the steel plant is below the potential it could deliver.

我的第二個問題涉及馬丁內斯。馬丁內斯先生，我們看到隨著國內市場鋼材價格的下降，鋼鐵生產成本有所改善。這會影響你的利潤。我們發現該鋼廠的產能低於其所能發揮的潛力。

So which are the main drivers for margin enhancement that you foresee from coming quarters? Will this come from sequential reductions of cost in slab, for example? Or does this depend on stronger efforts in terms of pricing? Thank you for taking my questions.

那麼，您預計未來幾季利潤率提高的主要驅動因素有哪些？例如，這是否來自板坯成本的連續降低？還是這取決於在定價方面加大力度？感謝您回答我的問題。

Daniel, thank you for the question, and I will respond in terms of mining. Because of the fact that it has already been lifted, this [channel] follow-on exists, but it is not our priority. Perhaps, we will continue seeking other strategic partner for the challenges that we face in terms of mining, and these are periods of challenges. We're referring to 25%, 30%, 40% of return in our peripheral projects that would have lower investments but would have a higher and faster return; perhaps seek partners that could make these investments feasible to have a faster return.

大牛，謝謝你的提問，我從挖礦方面來回答。因為它已經取消了，所以這個[通道]後續是存在的，但這不是我們的首要任務。也許，我們將繼續尋找其他策略合作夥伴來應對我們在採礦方面面臨的挑戰，而這些都是挑戰時期。我們指的是週邊項目的25%、30%、40%的回報，投資較少，但回報更高、更快；或許尋找可以使這些投資可行並獲得更快回報的合作夥伴。

In the mining balance, we are open, as we have always been, to strategic capital that could add value more than the market for these specific opportunities. And because of our very strong growth and investment plan that we have in mining, it would allow us to do this.

在礦業平衡方面，我們一如既往地對策略資本持開放態度，這些策略資本可以為這些特定機會帶來比市場更多的價值。由於我們在採礦業擁有非常強勁的成長和投資計劃，這將使我們能夠做到這一點。

As you know, we have extremely good assets. We have 80% of control on mining, which means we have sufficient space to make strategic decisions that will enable us to advance at a faster pace with these peripheral projects, make them feasible, and have the short-term return. Basically, this is what we foresee for mining.

如您所知，我們擁有非常好的資產。我們對挖礦有80%的控制權，這意味著我們有足夠的空間來做策略決策，使我們能夠更快地推進這些週邊項目，使它們變得可行，並獲得短期回報。基本上，這就是我們對挖礦的預見。

As you yourself have mentioned, we have five businesses that we would like to have separate independent businesses that will be listed as standalone businesses. Mining has already been listed. We have cement, where we continue to have that desire to hold an IPO as well as in our other three businesses. And our proposal is that they become independent and listed companies as soon as possible and that this capital opening becomes something viable.

正如您自己所提到的，我們有五家企業，我們希望擁有單獨的獨立企業，這些企業將被列為獨立企業。採礦業已經上市。我們有水泥業務，我們仍然有進行首次公開發行的願望，以及我們的其他三項業務。我們的建議是盡快獨立上市，讓這個資本開放成為可行的事。

Our idea for growth, which I have mentioned previously, is always as a function of having a better route to market. We believe that larger businesses, where we can materialize the synergies we have obtained through the acquisition, making the businesses larger and better, ensure that they will be more attractive to open up capital. Cement is on a path to that. And of course, we will do the IPO as soon as the market allows for this.

我之前提到過，我們的成長理念始終是擁有更好的市場途徑。我們相信，規模較大的企業，我們可以實現透過收購獲得的協同效應，使企業規模更大、更好，確保它們對開放資本更具吸引力。水泥正朝著這個目標邁進。當然，一旦市場允許，我們將盡快進行首次公開發行。

For some time already, we have been speaking about having separate and listed businesses. And we're going to do this because of our second greatest priority, which is deleveraging. We want growth, and we have that commitment with deleveraging. And this is how we can achieve this and allow for a payment of dividends, which, of course, is a third priority that we would like to maintain.

一段時間以來，我們一直在談論擁有獨立和上市的業務。我們這樣做是因為我們的第二要務是去槓桿化。我們想要成長，我們有去槓桿化的承諾。這就是我們如何實現這一目標並允許支付股息，當然，這是我們希望保持的第三個優先事項。

When it comes to mining, therefore, there is that concrete possibility. We have investment with a very rapid return that we're offering to third parties to make this feasible so that we can continue to focus on our main challenge, which is the P15. And eventually, we would like to offer this higher added value product with a higher iron ore content to the market, better complying with environmental standard.

因此，當談到採礦時，就存在這種具體的可能性。我們的投資回報非常快，我們向第三方提供這些投資，使其變得可行，以便我們能夠繼續專注於我們的主要挑戰，即 P15。最終，我們希望向市場提供這種鐵礦石含量更高、附加價值更高、更符合環保標準的產品。

In cement, this would be very natural. We have been trying to open up capital with growth, of course. Lafarge-Holcim has been fully integrated and is working at full steam this year. We want to grow. We will grow with temporary leverages because our challenge is to maintain a low leverage and work with a structured operation and go-to-market.

在水泥中，這是很自然的。當然，我們一直在努力透過成長來開放資本。拉法基-豪瑞已於今年全面整合並全速運轉。我們想要成長。我們將透過臨時槓桿來實現成長，因為我們的挑戰是保持低槓桿並進行結構化運作和進入市場。

In infrastructure and logistics, we're also considering this. As Marcelo mentioned, in energy, we're seeking a strategic partner. In the acquisition as a model, the idea was 50%/50% partnership. It all ended up being a last-minute affair, but we do want to go back to this possibility of having a strategic partner in the business to allow for organized growth.

在基礎設施和物流方面，我們也在考慮這一點。正如馬塞洛所提到的，在能源領域，我們正在尋找策略夥伴。以收購為模型，想法是50%/50%的合作。這一切最終都是最後一刻的事情，但我們確實想回到這種在業務中擁有策略合作夥伴以實現有組織成長的可能性。

Basically, this is it. Our strategy remains unaltered. And our commitment was, is, and will continue to be one of growth, deleveraging the payment of dividends, and the longevity of our business. Thank you.

基本上就是這樣了。我們的策略保持不變。我們的承諾過去、現在和將來都是成長、去槓桿化、股息支付和我們業務的長壽。謝謝。

Thank you, Benjamin.

謝謝你，班傑明。

Daniel, regarding the recovery of margins -- an important point to begin this, I'm quite optimistic despite the market that was somewhat hostile at the beginning of the year. And of course, I depend a great deal on facts and data.

丹尼爾，關於利潤率的恢復——這是開始這一點的重要一點，儘管今年年初市場有些敵意，但我還是相當樂觀。當然，我很大程度上依賴事實和數據。

If we look at January 2024, there was a growth of 11%. In domestic sales, imports had a drop of 40%. Last year, if we see what happened, parent consumption grew 3%. Domestic sales dropped because imports were out of the curve.

如果我們看看 2024 年 1 月，成長了 11%。國內銷售中，進口下降了40%。去年，如果我們看看發生了什麼，家長消費增加了 3%。由於進口不正常，國內銷售下降。

Now if we imagine that imports will go back to a sustainable level -- we're not speaking about eliminating imports in Brazil, but reducing them to 12% or 11% -- I believe the market could grow 10% this year in Brazil. That is a reason to begin to recover margins in the domestic market, recover margins in general.

現在，如果我們想像進口將回到可持續的水平——我們不是在談論消除巴西的進口，而是將進口減少到12%或11%——我相信今年巴西的市場可能會成長10%。這是開始恢復國內市場利潤率、整體恢復利潤率的原因。

Now regarding the segments, if you look at them structurally, one by one, in industry-industry, the house appliances and buses, all of them speak about growth. There is positive data from construction. We follow this with cement and long steel.

現在說到細分市場，如果你從結構上看，一一看，工業工業、家電、公車，它們都在講成長。建築業數據正向。我們用水泥和長鋼來遵循這一點。

There is a carryover of works in the residential sector. And the government signaling positively to My House, My Life, this should accelerate. So the industry for automobiles has maintained a very positive scenario compared to previous years.

住宅領域有遺留工程。政府向「我的房子，我的生活」發出正面訊號，這應該會加速。因此，與往年相比，汽車產業保持了非常積極的態勢。

I don't foresee great concerns in terms of what will happen with a parent consumption in the market. But of course, we have the problem of imports and competition -- the isonomy of competition. What happens at CSN that makes it different from other plants is that we have a portfolio.

我預期市場上的家長消費不會有太大問題。但當然，我們面臨進口和競爭的問題——競爭的同質性。CSN 與其他工廠的不同之處在於我們擁有產品組合。

We have 50% of coated products, and our strategy has never changed. It was always the same. We work with a horizontal integration, looking at all suppliers, looking at the entire value chain. Our horizontal integration has increased. We work with end users, customers. Partnerships have increased in all sectors with civil construction, spare parts for automobiles, agricultural machines.

我們有50%的塗層產品，我們的策略從未改變。一切都是一樣的。我們進行橫向整合，著眼於所有供應商，並著眼於整個價值鏈。我們的橫向一體化有所加強。我們與最終用戶、客戶合作。土木建築、汽車零件、農業機械等各領域的合作關係都有所增加。

What is going to make CSN more positive in terms of recovering margins and market this year is the price recovery. So structurally, we would have to move towards a cost of slab of BRL3,000 per ton. We reached BRL4,000 or more, BRL4,200, BRL4,300. Presently, we are at BRL3,400, BRL3,500. And structurally, with the actions undertaken, we should reach those BRL3,000.

價格回升將使南航今年在利潤率和市場恢復方面更加積極。因此，從結構上看，我們必須將板坯成本調整為每噸 3,000 雷亞爾。我們達到了 4,000 雷亞爾或更多、4,200 雷亞爾、4,300 雷亞爾。目前，我們的價格為 3,400 雷亞爾、3,500 雷亞爾。從結構上講，透過採取行動，我們應該達到 3,000 巴西雷亞爾。

As Benjamin mentioned, we need to work at full steam. There is a purchase of slab that was successful, BRL300,000, BRL400,000 per year, which helps us to work in terms of margin. Working in the domestic market, we have to work on added value on quality, on the fragmentation, on the 70% to 80% of spot sales to position ourselves in all sectors.

正如本傑明所提到的，我們需要全力以赴地工作。有一次板坯採購很成功，每年30萬雷亞爾、40萬雷亞爾，這有助於我們在利潤方面開展工作。在國內市場上，我們必須致力於品質附加價值、細分化、70%至80%的現貨銷售，以在所有領域定位自己。

And what made us different in the fourth quarter was our participation in the international market, leveraging our price positioning. So in the markets that we have selected, Portugal, Germany, United States, we are a local player. And through time, in those markets, you will see that we will work closer with the end consumer.

第四季讓我們與眾不同的是我們利用我們的價格定位參與國際市場。所以在我們選擇的市場，葡萄牙、德國、美國，我們是本地玩家。隨著時間的推移，在這些市場中，您將看到我們將與最終消費者更加密切合作。

So this is the strategy, nothing different. It will materialize and there are very clear signs. Our margin was $37, $38 per ton in the third quarter, and it has reached $70 per ton, increasing twofold. Nothing like the $300 we reached in 2021-2022.

這就是策略，沒有什麼不同。它將實現，並且有非常明顯的跡象。我們的利潤是每噸37美元，第三季每噸38美元，現在已經達到每噸70美元，增加了一倍。沒有什麼比我們在 2021-2022 年達到的 300 美元更好的了。

Thank you for the question, Daniel.

謝謝你的提問，丹尼爾。

Thank you, Martinez. Thank you for the answers.

謝謝你，馬丁內斯。謝謝您的回答。

Leonardo Correa, BTG Pactual.

萊昂納多·科雷亞，BTG Pactual。

I hope everything is well. Good morning to all of you. Two questions in the steel segment. Martinez, to go back to the competitiveness of steel. For many years, CSN was the winner with an enormous competitive edge, with a very low price, with verticalization.

我希望一切都很好。各位早安。鋼鐵領域的兩個問題。馬丁內斯，回到鋼鐵的競爭力。多年來，南航憑藉著巨大的競爭優勢、極低的價格和垂直化成為贏家。

What draws attention when we look at the figures and the graph of the presentation is the cash cost for slab of $700 -- a bit below $700 in a scenario where slabs are being sold at a lower price internationally. BQ in China negotiated at $550, $560.

當我們查看演示文稿中的數字和圖表時，引起注意的是板坯的現金成本為 700 美元——在板坯在國際上以較低價格出售的情況下，略低於 700 美元。BQ在中國的議價為550美元、560美元。

So there is a mismatch compared to global price parameters, your cost in the steel. And of course, this has a relevant impact on your margin. Besides the issue we are aware of, competition versus imported products and low purchasing power. if you could focus more on cost, how do you foresee that evolution to $600 per slab, the BRL3,000 you mentioned?

因此，與全球價格參數（即鋼材成本）相比，存在不匹配。當然，這會對您的利潤產生相關影響。除了我們意識到的問題之外，還有與進口產品的競爭和購買力低。如果您可以更專注於成本，您如何預見到每塊板 600 美元（您提到的 3,000 雷亞爾）的演變？

Secondly, it allows me to go back to the antidumping rates, all of that discussion that has gained recent traction in Brazil, but still pending a solution that will be agreeable to all players in the steel market. We accompanied your problem with dumping with steel sheets. And what the government has done so far is marginal, minor help for pipelines and rebar.

其次，這讓我可以回到反傾銷率問題，所有這些討論最近在巴西引起了關注，但仍有待鋼鐵市場所有參與者都同意的解決方案。我們解決了您的鋼板傾倒問題。到目前為止，政府所做的對管道和螺紋鋼的幫助微不足道。

So how has your request been received for steel plate? And why haven't you asked for antidumping for other lines as well? These are my questions. Thank you very much.

那麼，您對鋼板的要求是如何被接收的呢？為什麼你們沒有對其他路線也提出反傾銷申請？這些都是我的問題。非常感謝。

Thank you for the question, Leo. Now I read the report today, and that's exactly what is written in your report. It's truly perfect. And that is what happened with CSN. I truly don't need to comment on this.

謝謝你的提問，利奧。今天我看了這個報告，你的報告裡就是這麼寫的。這確實是完美的。這就是 CSN 發生的事情。我確實不需要對此發表評論。

And it speaks very clearly to the diversification, integration, not putting all the eggs in the same market -- basket, and what we do commercially and the wealth of our product portfolio. Now this is something I wanted to mention because I was quite impressed with the results of the report that you launched today and that I read this morning.

它非常清楚地說明了多元化、一體化，而不是把所有雞蛋放在同一個市場——籃子裡，以及我們在商業上所做的事情以及我們產品組合的豐富性。這是我想提的事情，因為我對你們今天發布的報告結果印象深刻，我今天早上讀到了該報告。

To answer the second question -- and I'm going to mention everything I have read about these points. I would like to praise the Ministry for Development of Industry and Commerce, especially the Technical Corp. At CSN, we're going to follow the rules of the World Trade Organization. We have no choice.

為了回答第二個問題——我將提及我所讀到的有關這些觀點的所有內容。我要讚揚工商發展部，特別是技術公司。在CSN，我們將遵循世界貿易組織的規則。我們別無選擇。

The world is globalized, harmonized, and I obtained the regulations of the world MO. And we worked with them, and it was very good work. We recompiled the data. We presented the period. We spoke about all the players, market data, what is coming from China. And they -- per our request, and there is an unheard of willingness in the steel sector of making this antidumping research in Brazil and, call it, provisional and shortening this process so that it is 90 days or 120 days at the utmost.

世界是全球化的、和諧的，我獲得了世界MO的規定。我們與他們合作，這是非常好的工作。我們重新編譯了數據。我們介紹了這個時期。我們討論了所有參與者、市場數據以及來自中國的內容。他們——根據我們的要求，鋼鐵業前所未有地願意在巴西進行反傾銷研究，稱之為臨時性的，並縮短這一過程，使其最多為 90 天或 120 天。

So we want this antidumping of metal sheets, prepainted and others, to end in 90 days, to be implemented in 90 days. And according to the calculations we carried out with this ministry, this antidumping margin is not lower than 50%. So this is an account, and it has been presented for tinplates now.

所以我們希望這次對金屬板材、預先塗漆和其他產品的反傾銷能夠在90天內結束，並在90天內實施。而根據我們與商務部的測算，這個反傾銷幅度不低於50%。所以這是一個帳戶，現在已經針對馬口鐵提供了。

Yes, CSN is also exerting pressure for compensation of antidumping in galvanized products and long steel. The coming week, we have meetings with the technical people. We have three or four meetings in Brasilia with [Dr. Tatiana] and [Dr. Marcella]. And the entire team is going to explain what is happening in the sector.

是的，CSN也在對鍍鋅產品和長材施加反傾銷賠償壓力。接下來的一周，我們將與技術人員舉行會議。我們在巴西利亞與[Dr.塔蒂亞娜]和[博士。馬塞拉]。整個團隊將解釋該行業正在發生的事情。

What also happens, because of the ministry is that we have to offer details of what happens in the supply chains, the value chains. We have to break some paradigms. And that is what is interesting because the government has begun to understand things that are said, that are published but that are not true -- not to call them lies. So this is what we are fighting for. We're going to obtain this through techniques and through the World Trade Organization regulations.

由於該部門的原因，我們還必須提供供應鏈、價值鏈中發生的情況的詳細資訊。我們必須打破一些範式。這就是有趣的地方，因為政府已經開始理解那些所說的、公佈的但不是真的的事情——不要稱它們為謊言。所以這就是我們正在奮鬥的目標。我們將透過技術和世界貿易組織的規定來實現這一點。

Now although I am a metallurgic engineer, I don't really know about this. What Benjamin has asked us to do for all of the executives in the company, myself, Marcelo, Helena, and the supply people, we are reestablishing -- well, when I joined CSN 22 years ago, we represented the first [cost] quartile in the world. And I'm very convinced that the measures that we are adopting here are for the short term, for the recovery of operational excellence.

現在雖然我是冶金工程師，但我對此還不太了解。班傑明要求我們為公司所有高管、我自己、馬塞洛、海倫娜以及供應人員做的事情，我們正在重建——好吧，當我22 年前加入CSN 時，我們代表了第一個[成本]四分之一在世界上。我堅信，我們在這裡採取的措施是短期的，是為了恢復卓越營運。

We can already see the results. And this will take us to the right level of the cost of slab, very close to the BRL3,000 this year, perhaps in the second half of the year, in the third quarter. And there are long-term measures that will extend for two years, which are the reforms we're implementing in the pulp production.

我們已經可以看到結果了。這將使我們的板坯成本達到正確的水平，非常接近今年的 3,000 雷亞爾，也許是在今年下半年，第三季。還有一些長期措施將延續兩年，這就是我們正在紙漿生產中實施的改革。

Nobody in the world is competitive, buying coke with high rates of pellet in their load. If you look at CSN, we have never had to buy slab or coke in the market. We have our own coke mill, and we have a higher cost. Those who add pellets are adding to the price. So in the short term, yes, structurally, we're going to reach that level of BRL3,000 for slab.

世界上沒有人具有競爭力，購買其負載中顆粒率高的焦炭。如果你看看CSN，我們從來不需要在市場上購買板坯或焦炭。我們有自己的焦炭廠，成本較高。那些添加顆粒的人會增加價格。因此，從短期來看，從結構上看，我們的板坯將達到 3,000 雷亞爾的水平。

And I truly believe in the work that is being carried out, engineering work, technical work, at our Presidente Vargas plant to seek those cost levels of the first quartile again. We have iron ore. We have good people. We have all of the equipment that has been duly maintained, working.

我堅信我們的巴爾加斯總統工廠正在進行的工程工作和技術工作將再次達到第一個四分位數的成本水準。我們有鐵礦石。我們有好人。我們所有的設備都經過適當維護並正常工作。

We have several paradigms that we have in maintenance that are not true. We have never worked so hard and invested so much in the company in terms of maintenance. And I'm convinced that we're going to reach that level -- not overnight, of course.

我們在維護方面有一些不正確的範例。我們從來沒有這麼努力，在公司的維護方面投入了這麼多。我相信我們將達到這個水平——當然不是一朝一夕的。

And it is not just the problem of CSN. If you compare yourself to other companies, this happens in all the steel plants. And it will enable us to resolve this problem in a period of two to three years and have a good operational excellence once again.

這不僅是南航的問題。如果你與其他公司進行比較，所有鋼廠都會發生這種情況。這將使我們能夠在兩到三年內解決這個問題，並再次擁有良好的卓越營運能力。

Simply to add to this, this is Marcelo, this plan updates back for some time. It's not a reaction to this more difficult year that we had. In our Investor Days, CMIN days, we have spoken about in -- about this in detail with CapEx guidance that will enable us to attain this cost. And the diagnosis is what you mentioned.

簡單補充一下，我是馬塞洛，這個計畫會更新一段時間。這並不是對我們今年更加困難的一年的反應。在我們的投資者日、CMIN 日中，我們詳細討論了這一點以及資本支出指南，這將使我們能夠實現這一成本。診斷就是你提到的。

We need to go back to Tier 1 levels, as Martinez mentioned, and this will happen in the coming years. This will not come from BQ. It comes from much more than that. We add value, we have the coated products, we are downstream. So this lab variable is important. But to take a good look at the plan we have is a solution for this.

正如馬丁內斯所提到的，我們需要回到一級水平，這將在未來幾年發生。這不會來自 BQ。它的來源遠不止於此。我們增加價值，我們有塗層產品，我們是下游。所以這個實驗室變數很重要。但仔細看看我們的計劃是解決這個問題的。

Excellent. Thank you very much.

出色的。非常感謝。

Ricardo Monegaglia, Safra Bank.

里卡多·莫內加利亞，薩夫拉銀行。

Morning, everybody. We have two questions and a follow-up on Sasson and other questions regarding costs. The explanation is very clear that we will see the cost of slab dropping down to the level of BRL3,000 per ton. Now, in the shorter term, should we see a sequential trajectory of cost, BRL3,400 to BRL3,000 during the quarter? Or will this not be sequential?

大家早安。我們有兩個問題，還有一個關於 Sasson 的後續問題以及其他成本的問題。解釋非常清楚，我們將看到板坯成本下降至每噸 3,000 雷亞爾的水平。現在，從短期來看，我們是否應該看到本季成本從 3,400 雷亞爾到 3,000 雷亞爾的連續軌跡？或者這不會是連續的？

I would like to confirm something with you that I have perceived. There was a great deal of relief in terms of coal and coke and in the price that you paid for third-party products for the steel mill. So which will be the trajectory of the cost line going forward?

我想向您確認一下我所察覺到的事情。煤炭和焦炭的價格以及為鋼廠購買第三方產品的價格都得到了很大的緩解。那麼未來成本線的軌跡會是哪一條呢？

Now the second question for cement. There's a recovery -- there was the expectation of a cost recovery in the fourth quarter, but there was pressure instead. Now what changed in the last -- since the last results call to impact the cost of cement? And what can we expect going forward to reach that 30% margin? Does this depend on price? Does it depend on increasing volumes and price or work with Lafarge? These are my questions.

現在是水泥的第二個問題。出現了復甦——人們預計第四季成本會回升，但實際上卻面臨壓力。自上次結果呼籲影響水泥成本以來，現在發生了什麼變化？為了達到 30% 的利潤率，我們可以期待什麼？這個取決於價格嗎？這取決於銷售量和價格的增加還是與拉法基的合作？這些都是我的問題。

Thank you for the questions, Ricardo. This is Marcelo. Now the reaction to costs. There is very short-term issues, the normalization vis-a-vis the operational problems we had last year and the maturity of investments for the mid- and long term, the battery, the hot-rolled laminator. So this figure of BRL3,000, we don't have a date for that. It is not a guidance. In our Investor Day, we have more details of our investments and terms.

謝謝你的提問，里卡多。這是馬塞洛。現在是對成本的反應。存在非常短期的問題，相對於我們去年遇到的營運問題的正常化以及中長期投資的成熟度，電池，熱軋層壓機。因此，對於 3,000 雷亞爾這個數字，我們還沒有確定具體日期。這不是一個指導。在投資者日，我們提供了有關投資和條款的更多詳細資訊。

What I can say is that regarding more imminent issues of the steel mill, we have three converters. We're ending the repair of the last of them now in March to allow for normalization in volume and quantity. And of course, this will allow us to have more robust volumes and fixed cost. This has a clear impact that is measurable.

我能說的是，對於鋼廠更緊迫的問題，我們有三個轉爐。我們將在三月結束對最後一批的修復，以實現數量和數量的正常化。當然，這將使我們擁有更強勁的銷售和固定成本。這具有明顯且可衡量的影響。

As this will happen at the end of March, the big step you should expect now for the second quarter, there will be drops. But there will be a more significant drop in the second quarter.

由於這將在三月底發生，您現在應該預期第二季將邁出一大步，因此將會下降。但第二季會有更大幅度的下降。

I will give the floor to Martinez now.

我現在請馬丁內斯發言。

Ricardo, thank you for the question. What happens at CSN is that our passion is always for results, the last line item, and we always have an enormous challenge set forth by the Chairman: growing volume, growing prices, work in a fragmented way. So you will agree with me that these are very challenging goals.

里卡多，謝謝你的提問。CSN 的情況是，我們的熱情始終是結果，這是最後一項，我們始終面臨主席提出的巨大挑戰：數量不斷增長，價格不斷上漲，工作方式分散。所以你會同意我的觀點，這些都是非常具有挑戰性的目標。

What happened in the fourth quarter? Obviously, the competition did not look at CSN with their arms crossed. We grew 7% during the year. Normally, CSN drives the price in the market. That's what we're in the market for, to push prices, to be the best, to fragment everything, to sell less for more. But unfortunately, in the fourth quarter, we had to follow the strong trend of competition, especially in markets where we do have higher competition, like São Paulo, so as not to lose out on volume.

第四季發生了什麼事？顯然，比賽並沒有對南航抱持敵視的態度。我們這一年成長了 7%。通常，CSN 驅動市場價格。這就是我們在市場上的目標：推高價格、成為最好的、分割一切、以少賣多。但不幸的是，在第四季度，我們必須追隨競爭的強勁趨勢，尤其是在競爭激烈的市場，例如聖保羅，以免銷售量下降。

In our case, the beauty of all of this is that our cost and our production director, Edvaldo, was also able to maintain the cost at a good level, maintaining margins at 24%. So in steel or cement, we always work with volume, margin, price. And this is part of our day-to-day work.

就我們而言，這一切的美妙之處在於我們的成本和生產總監 Edvaldo 也能夠將成本維持在良好的水平，將利潤率維持在 24%。因此，在鋼鐵或水泥領域，我們始終關注數量、利潤和價格。這是我們日常工作的一部分。

I'm going to give the floor to Edvaldo to add to the second part of your question.

我將請埃德瓦爾多補充你問題的第二部分。

Ricardo, good morning. This is Edvaldo. Simply to add to what was said by Martinez, the Lafarge integration process. Today, we are celebrating one year and six months. And we consider the process concluded, fully executed successfully.

里卡多，早安。這是埃德瓦爾多。只是補充一下馬丁內斯所說的拉法基整合流程。今天，我們慶祝一周年六個月。我們認為該過程已結束，完全成功執行。

We were able to capture more than 90% of synergies, and new synergies appeared day after day in all business areas: reduction in the price of electrical energy; production of the plants and the company; gains in negotiation for supply, for raw materials; so several actions in terms of operational excellence; the reactivation of equipment; fuel mixes; and much more. Martinez has already spoken about fragmented sales that is important in logistics.

我們能夠獲得90%以上的協同效應，並且新的協同效應日復一日地出現在所有業務領域：電能價格的降低；工廠和公司的生產；原物料供應談判中的收益；在卓越營運方面採取了多項行動；設備的重新啟動；燃料混合物；以及更多。馬丁內斯已經談到了物流中重要的碎片化銷售。

So in sum, several actions that we have captured that will be operating full in the year 2024, they were all captured during 2023 and this year in sum that we had. And we have already seen an expressive reduction in costs. The fourth quarter ended at 7% lower than the fourth quarter of '22. And a scenario of increase in sales, 7% growth of sales vis-a-vis a drop of 1.5% in the market.

總而言之，我們捕獲的幾項行動將在 2024 年全面實施，它們都是在 2023 年和今年我們捕獲的。我們已經看到成本顯著降低。第四季末的成長率比 2020 年第四季低 7%。在銷售額成長的情況下，銷售額成長 7%，而市場銷售額下降 1.5%。

So we were able to somewhat recover our margins to 24%, although we're seeking more than 30%. We know that this is possible, and this is what we're aiming for.

因此，我們的利潤率能夠在一定程度上恢復到 24%，儘管我們的目標是超過 30%。我們知道這是可能的，這就是我們的目標。

Thank you. Thank you very much.

謝謝。非常感謝。

Our next question comes from Mr. Declan Hanlon from Santander. He says good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. How should we think about the leverage goal, 2.5, in the context of transition? Asking this differently, how will this change your tolerance regarding leverage?

我們的下一個問題來自桑坦德銀行的 Declan Hanlon 先生。他說早安。感謝您回答我的問題。在轉型的背景下，我們該如何看待槓桿目標 2.5？換個角度問，這將如何改變您對槓桿的容忍度？

Can you offer us some details about how you're thinking about this in terms of the balance? Would you consider injecting capital to maintain your present levels of leverage? Would this transaction delay an IPO for the cement plant?

您能否向我們提供一些有關您如何考慮平衡問題的詳細資訊？您是否會考慮注入資金來維持目前的槓桿水準？這項交易是否會推遲水泥廠的首次公開發行？

Well, thank you for the question, Declan. Now let's go straight to the point. The acquisition does not change our ambition of being at 2.5 times. I think this conciliation is possible based on some initiatives that were mentioned by Benjamin. They include a search for a partner in energy as well as in mining, a future IPO for cement.

嗯，謝謝你的提問，德克蘭。現在我們就直接進入正題吧。這次收購併沒有改變我們實現 2.5 倍成長的目標。我認為基於本傑明提到的一些舉措，這種調解是可能的。其中包括尋找能源和採礦領域的合作夥伴，以及未來水泥產業的首次公開發行。

We're going to pursue this regardless of the acquisition and, in the acquisition, to structure the new debt in such a way that part of the indebtedness can also be transformed into equity. So this is an alternative that we're going to have to think about if our proposal is a winning one, but it's the only way that this would become interesting for CSN, a capital structure and the acquisition that will not increase our leverage. This is a non-negotiable assumption.

無論收購如何，我們都將追求這一目標，並且在收購中，以部分債務也可以轉化為股權的方式建構新債務。因此，這是我們必須考慮的另一種選擇，如果我們的提案是一個成功的方案，但這是讓 CSN 感興趣的唯一方法，資本結構和收購不會增加我們的槓桿。這是一個不容商榷的假設。

We know that if that is the path we follow that IPO, yes, would have to wait for approval and integration. There are other initiatives that would control the leverage and would lead towards the performance we expect in 2024. It's performance in cash and EBITDA, recycling the CSN capital and how to structure the acquisition. All of this will make sure that the integration will not increase our leverage.

我們知道，如果這是我們遵循的路徑，那麼 IPO 就必須等待批准和整合。還有其他措施可以控制槓桿並實現我們預期的 2024 年業績。它的現金和 EBITDA 表現、CSN 資本的回收以及如何建立收購。所有這些都將確保整合不會增加我們的影響力。

Our next question comes from [Antonio Alex]. He would like to know if there is a term for the court to judge the CSN appeal in terms of Usiminas.

我們的下一個問題來自[安東尼奧·亞歷克斯]。他想知道法院是否有以烏西米納斯來判決 CSN 上訴的期限。

No. No, the court has not issued a deadline. So any comment in that direction would not have a stand.

不。不，法院沒有規定最後期限。因此，任何朝這個方向的評論都是沒有立場的。

As we have no further questions, the Q&A session ends here. I would like to return the floor to Marcelo Ribeiro for the closing remarks.

由於我們沒有其他問題，問答環節到此結束。我想請馬塞洛·裡貝羅做結束語。

Well, thank you, one and all. Once again, I would like to thank you for your attendance for the earnings result call for the fourth quarter 2023. It was a good year, but with challenges in steel. And this call marks the beginning of the year 2024, where we have great expectations in terms of our in-house performance and regarding the market. So we count upon your attention in terms of our performance in coming quarters. Once again, thank you very much.

好吧，謝謝大家。我再次感謝您參加 2023 年第四季的財報電話會議。這是美好的一年，但鋼鐵業也面臨挑戰。這次電話會議標誌著 2024 年的開始，我們對內部業績和市場都抱持著很大的期望。因此，我們希望您專注於我們未來幾季的業績。再次非常感謝您。

The result earnings call for CSN ends here. We would like to thank all of you for your attendance. Have a very good day.

南航的財報電話會議結果到此結束。我們衷心感謝大家的出席。祝你有美好的一天。

Editor^ Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

編輯^ 本筆錄中的英文陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。