SAP SE (SAP) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome, and thank you for joining the SAP Q2 and Half Year 2026 Financial Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the conference over to Alexandra Steiger, Global Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

各位女士、先生，感謝您稍候。歡迎各位，並感謝您參加 SAP 2026 年第二季及上半年財務業績電話會議。(接線員指示) 現在我想將會議交給投資人關係全球主管 Alexandra Steiger。請開始。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us. With me today are CEO, Christian Klein; and CFO, Dominik Asam. On this call, we will discuss SAP's second quarter 2026 results. You can find the deck supplementing this call as well as our quarterly statement on our Investor Relations website.

各位晚安，歡迎各位。感謝您加入我們。今天與我一同出席的有執行長 Christian Klein，以及財務長 Dominik Asam。在本次電話會議中，我們將討論 SAP 2026 年第二季的業績。您可在我們的投資人關係網站上找到本次電話會議的簡報，以及我們的季度聲明。

During this call, we will make forward-looking statements, which are predictions, projections or other statements about future events. These statements are based on current expectations and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and outcomes to differ materially. Additional information regarding these risks and uncertainties may be found in our filings with the SEC, including, but not limited to, the Risk Factors section of our annual report on Form 20-F for 2025. Unless otherwise stated, all numbers on this call are non-IFRS and growth rates and percentage point changes are non-IFRS year-on-year in constant currencies. The non-IFRS financial measures we provide should not be considered as a substitute for or superior to the measures of financial performance prepared in accordance with IFRS.

在本次電話會議中，我們將作出前瞻性陳述，亦即對未來事件的預測、推估或其他陳述。這些陳述係基於目前的預期與假設，並受可能導致實際結果與成果出現重大差異的風險與不確定性影響。關於這些風險與不確定性的更多資訊，可參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會（SEC）提交的文件，包括但不限於我們 2025 年 Form 20-F 年報中的「風險因素」章節。除非另有說明，本次電話會議中所有數字均為非 IFRS；成長率與百分點變動均為以固定匯率計算的非 IFRS 年對年。我們提供的非 IFRS 財務衡量指標不應被視為依 IFRS 編製之財務績效衡量指標的替代或更優指標。

And with that, over to you, Christian.

接下來交給你，Christian。

Yes. Thank you, Alexandra, and a warm welcome to everyone joining this call. Q2 was an outstanding quarter, highlighted by our flagship customer conference, Sapphire. The event was a huge success. We saw record attendance generated significant additional pipeline and received very, very positive feedback on our Autonomous Enterprise launch.

好的。謝謝你，Alexandra，也熱烈歡迎所有參加本次電話會議的各位。第二季表現非常出色，其中一大亮點是我們的旗艦客戶大會 Sapphire。活動非常成功。我們看到創紀錄的出席人數，帶來顯著增加的商機管線，並且對我們「自主企業」的發布獲得非常、非常正面的回饋。

In parallel, our AI transformation is progressing well, both among our customers and our employees reflected in growing AI consumption and tangible outcomes. This momentum contributed to our strong top line performance in Q2. Let's look at this in detail. Current cloud backlog grew 26%, an acceleration compared to Q1. And after two quarters where our CCB was lagging behind cloud revenue growth, it was a welcome trend reversal in this important forward-looking indicator, a great result, especially given the volatile environment.

同時，我們的 AI 轉型進展順利，無論在客戶端或員工端皆是如此，反映在 AI 使用量的成長與具體成果上。這股動能推動了我們第二季強勁的營收表現。讓我們來詳細看看。當期雲端積壓訂單（Current cloud backlog）成長 26%，較第一季加速。在連續兩季 CCB 落後於雲端營收成長之後，這項重要的前瞻性指標出現令人欣喜的趨勢反轉；在波動的環境下，這是非常好的成果。

AI and SAP Business Data Cloud were embedded as key pillars in more than 90% of our 50 largest deals, giving us strong confidence for the second half of the year. Cloud revenue grew 24% to EUR6.3 billion, backed by a solid execution of on-premise to cloud ERP migrations in our installed base.

AI 與 SAP Business Data Cloud 作為關鍵支柱，已嵌入我們前 50 大交易中的 90% 以上，讓我們對下半年充滿信心。雲端營收成長 24% 至 63 億歐元，主要受惠於我們在既有客戶基礎中，將地端（on-premise）ERP 遷移至雲端的穩健執行。

Total revenue was up 11% to EUR9.9 billion. This comes despite a slight decline in services revenue as we reallocate consultants to build agents and foster AI adoption. Our top line performance translated into an operating profit of EUR2.7 billion, an increase of 9%. Our indirect channel continues to be a strong growth pillar. Q2 growth again significantly outpaced direct channel cloud revenue, reflecting our successful go-to-market transformation over the last two years.

總營收成長 11% 至 99 億歐元。即便我們將顧問資源重新配置以打造代理（agents）並促進 AI 採用，導致服務營收略有下滑，仍達成此表現。我們的營收表現轉化為 27 億歐元的營業利益，成長 9%。我們的間接通路持續是強勁的成長支柱。第二季成長再次明顯超越直接通路的雲端營收，反映我們過去兩年成功推動的市場進入（go-to-market）轉型。

As mentioned, a key highlight in Q2 was, of course, SAP Sapphire and the launch of the Autonomous Enterprise. It resonated strongly because it gets to the root of why enterprise AI is so hard and what that means for our customers. The reality for many enterprises today is that LLMs don't understand business data, processes and governance. AI token spend doesn't mirror outcomes. Log-in to single frontier vendors is a growing concern and AI sovereignty is becoming more important. At Sapphire, we explained how the combination of the Autonomous Suite and Business AI platform will solve those challenges.

如前所述，第二季的一大亮點當然是 SAP Sapphire，以及「自主企業」的發布。之所以引起強烈共鳴，是因為它直指企業 AI 為何如此困難的根本原因，以及這對客戶意味著什麼。對許多企業而言，現實是 LLM 並不了解商業資料、流程與治理。AI token 的支出並不反映成果。登入單一前沿供應商（frontier vendors）的鎖定風險日益令人擔憂，而 AI 主權也變得更為重要。在 Sapphire 上，我們說明了「自主套件」與「Business AI 平台」的結合將如何解決這些挑戰。

The new business AI platform is being delivered this quarter. The platform covers three key pillars. First, the build pillar, where we offer the best experience for pro code and citizen developers to create and extend agents. With Joule Studio, you can choose from a range of leading LLMs, including Anthropic, Cohere, Google, Mistral AI, OpenAI and other open weight models.

全新的 Business AI 平台將於本季交付。該平台涵蓋三大關鍵支柱。第一是「建置（build）」支柱，我們為專業程式開發者與公民開發者提供最佳體驗，以建立並擴展代理。透過 Joule Studio，您可以從多種領先的 LLM 中選擇，包括 Anthropic、Cohere、Google、Mistral AI、OpenAI 以及其他開放權重模型。

Joule Studio is integrated with the second pillar, the context and reason pillar. This pillar provides the agents with the context and the knowledge they need to run business processes autonomously. It starts with our data foundation. SAP Business Data Cloud provides broad data access to the agents. And with our latest acquisition of Dremio and its Apache Iceberg native technology, we are bringing mission-critical SAP and non-SAP data together to become a true enterprise lighthouse, meaning SAP and non-SAP data can be analyzed together in real time without moving or copying it first.

Joule Studio 與第二個支柱「情境與推理（context and reason）」整合。此支柱為代理提供其自主執行業務流程所需的情境與知識。它從我們的資料基礎開始。SAP Business Data Cloud 為代理提供廣泛的資料存取。而透過我們最新收購的 Dremio 及其原生支援 Apache Iceberg 的技術，我們將關鍵任務的 SAP 與非 SAP 資料整合在一起，成為真正的企業燈塔（enterprise lighthouse），也就是 SAP 與非 SAP 資料可在不先移動或複製的情況下，即時一同分析。

On top of the data foundation, we are able to build one semantic data layer for SAP and non-SAP data. By joining data products, we are creating semantic data models centered around the customer, supplier, material and other master data objects of a company. Our acquisition Reltio will govern these master data models end-to-end to ensure high data quality. And then these semantic models are connected with our ontology layer and knowledge graph, which we offer for every LOB and industry domain. They are the plane infused into the agents developed with Joule Studio on the new platform.

在資料基礎之上，我們能為 SAP 與非 SAP 資料建立一個語意資料層。透過串聯資料產品，我們正在建立以客戶、供應商、物料及企業其他主資料物件為核心的語意資料模型。我們收購的 Reltio 將端到端治理這些主資料模型，以確保高資料品質。接著，這些語意模型會與我們的本體（ontology）層與知識圖譜相連結；我們針對每個 LOB 與產業領域皆提供。它們是注入到在新平台上以 Joule Studio 開發之代理中的底層平面。

Most importantly, all three layers will be extensible by partners and customers to cater for their specific business needs. Our acquisition of Prior Labs will enable agents to generate accurate tabular predictions out of the box.

最重要的是，這三個層級都可由合作夥伴與客戶擴充，以滿足其特定業務需求。我們收購 Prior Labs 將使代理能夠開箱即用地產生準確的表格型預測。

After providing the agents with the context, they also need to run the business with trust and high scalability, which brings me to the third pillar, one and govern. This pillar addresses another key challenge of AI adoption. Here, we take the complexity of our customers' shoulders by managing and governing the agents embedded in the Autonomous suite and beyond.

在為代理提供情境之後，它們也需要以可信任且高度可擴展的方式來運行業務，這就帶到第三個支柱：「統一與治理（one and govern）」。此支柱解決 AI 採用的另一項關鍵挑戰。在這裡，我們透過管理與治理嵌入於自主套件及其延伸範圍中的代理，為客戶承擔複雜性。

SAP manages the agents across the complete agent life cycle, including SAP, partner and customer build agents. Specifically in the governance layer, we will ensure the agents meet your compliance frameworks and data privacy requirements from over 130 countries, checking all the identity and authorization rules to ensure the response is not only accurate, but also compliant. Furthermore, we are able to switch between different models safely and dynamically inside customers' SAP landscapes. This means we will run the agents without any lock-in, adhere to local sovereignty requirements and ensure the best price-to-outcome ratio. Powered by the new platform, our Autonomous suite will consist of SAP partner and customer agents, all managed by SAP.

SAP 會在完整的代理生命週期中管理代理，包括 SAP、合作夥伴與客戶所建置的代理。特別是在治理層，我們將確保代理符合您在 130 多個國家的法遵框架與資料隱私要求，並檢查所有身分與授權規則，以確保回應不僅正確，也符合法規要求。此外，我們能在客戶的 SAP 環境中，安全且動態地在不同模型之間切換。這表示我們將在無任何鎖定（lock-in）的情況下運行代理，遵循在地主權要求，並確保最佳的「價格對成果」比率。在新平台的驅動下，我們的自主套件將由 SAP、合作夥伴與客戶的代理所組成，並全部由 SAP 管理。

The AI Agent Hub is our command center to discover, manage and govern SAP and non-SAP agents, MCP servers and more. The AI Agent Hub gives customers transparency across a universe of agents for every LOB and every industry. And finally, this quarter, we will also launch our new end-to-end user experience, Joule Work. It's a single entry point and interface across all our portfolio solutions for all tasks where users can collaborate with our AI agents. Connected to our business AI platform, Joule Work dramatically accelerates outcomes for our 350 million end users.

AI Agent Hub 是我們的指揮中心，用於探索、管理與治理 SAP 與非 SAP 的代理、MCP 伺服器等。AI Agent Hub 讓客戶能夠在涵蓋各個業務線（LOB）與各行各業的代理宇宙中，獲得透明度。最後，在本季度，我們也將推出全新的端到端使用者體驗 Joule Work。它是在我們整個產品組合解決方案中，針對所有任務提供的單一入口與介面，使用者可在其中與我們的 AI 代理協作。連結至我們的商業 AI 平台，Joule Work 將為我們 3.5 億終端使用者大幅加速成果產出。

For example, a salesperson can create a complete data rich customer pitch in just a few minutes. A finance business partner can pull together a financial analysis, including all structured and nonstructured data from his or her company. After Sapphire, the beta programs for our new platform, Suite and Joule Work were immediately oversubscribed and initial customer feedback has been excellent. This makes us very confident about the successful launch in Q3. In addition, we will release close to 50 assistants by the end of Q3, underpinned by more than 400 Autonomous suite agents by the end of the year.

例如，業務人員只需幾分鐘就能建立一份完整、資料豐富的客戶提案簡報。財務業務夥伴可以彙整一份財務分析，包含其公司所有結構化與非結構化資料。在 Sapphire 之後，我們新平台、Suite 與 Joule Work 的 Beta 計畫立即超額報名，初期客戶回饋也非常出色。這讓我們對於在第三季成功上市充滿信心。此外，我們將在第三季末前發布近 50 個助理，並在年底前以超過 400 個 Autonomous Suite 代理作為支撐。

To accelerate our customers' journey to the autonomous enterprise, we are also releasing three additional ERP migration assistants with 10 underlying agents later this quarter. Let me now share some tangible outcomes from our customers. On the Autonomous Suite side, SAP and Amadeus, a platform for global travel, developed an AI agent that autonomously reconciles unstructured payment data already clearing around 40,000 incorrect transactions. One example from our Business AI platform. To prepare for business AI, Norsk Hydro transitioned from a legacy BW to an end-to-end data platform with BTP.

為了加速客戶邁向自主企業的旅程，我們也將在本季度稍晚推出另外三個 ERP 遷移助理，並由 10 個底層代理支援。接下來我想分享一些客戶帶來的具體成果。在 Autonomous Suite 方面，SAP 與全球旅遊平台 Amadeus 共同開發了一個 AI 代理，可自主對帳非結構化付款資料，已經清理約 40,000 筆錯誤交易。再舉一個來自我們商業 AI 平台的例子。為了準備導入商業 AI，Norsk Hydro 從傳統 BW 遷移到以 BTP 建置的端到端資料平台。

This delivered significant agility, cutting BI solution build time by around 75% and accelerating report creation time by 50%. Moving on to industry AI. With NTT DATA, Denmark's largest wholesaler for steel and technical equipment, Lemvigh-Muller deployed custom AI agents to verify purchasing orders. The solution achieved over 90% touchless processing and 98% matching accuracy. For AI agents to deliver the accurate outcomes at scale that all of these companies need a harmonized data foundation and simplified process layer is essential.

這帶來了顯著的敏捷性，將 BI 解決方案建置時間縮短約 75%，並將報表建立時間加快 50%。接著談產業 AI。與 NTT DATA 合作，丹麥最大的鋼材與技術設備批發商 Lemvigh-Muller 部署了客製化 AI 代理來驗證採購訂單。該解決方案達成超過 90% 的免人工處理（touchless processing）以及 98% 的匹配準確率。要讓 AI 代理以規模化方式交付這些公司所需的精準成果，統一的資料基礎與簡化的流程層至關重要。

That's why the modernization of legacy system landscapes is still very important. To support our customers in this transformation, we launched our new RISE and GROW with SAP offering, which has already been very well received in Q2. As part of this new offering, we are seeing a strong uptake of our AI ERP migration tool chain. Customers are achieving faster time to value and up to 30% lower ERP migration costs. A great example of this in action is Dexco, who used their RISE with SAP migration to eliminate 97% of legacy customizations, driving a 75% faster accounting growth.

因此，現有（legacy）系統版圖的現代化仍然非常重要。為了支持客戶完成這項轉型，我們推出了全新的 RISE and GROW with SAP 方案，並已在第二季獲得非常好的市場反響。作為此新方案的一部分，我們看到 AI ERP 遷移工具鏈的採用率強勁提升。客戶得以更快實現價值，並將 ERP 遷移成本降低最多達 30%。一個很好的實例是 Dexco，他們透過 RISE with SAP 遷移消除了 97% 的既有客製化，推動會計成長速度提升 75%。

In parallel, our new offering also includes a firm commitment to our customers to activate and adopt AI assistants and agents within the first year of their journey. We also saw many Wise deal highlights in Q2. They include Shell, Morgan Stanley, Samsonite Group, Vonovia, Eli Lilly, retailer Shoprite Group and Electrolux. We also see great momentum around SAP GROW with companies such as Parloa, Gooroo Credito, Modular Data Centers and Techem Energy Services.

同時，我們的新方案也包含對客戶的明確承諾：在其旅程的第一年內啟用並採用 AI 助理與代理。我們在第二季也看到許多 Wise 交易亮點。其中包括 Shell、Morgan Stanley、Samsonite Group、Vonovia、Eli Lilly、零售商 Shoprite Group 以及 Electrolux。我們也看到 SAP GROW 在 Parloa、Gooroo Credito、Modular Data Centers 與 Techem Energy Services 等公司帶動的強勁動能。

Turning to the AI deals. Key wins included PwC, one of the world's largest professional services firms. They selected our AI to transform a complex billing process, cutting a 35-minute task to just five minutes while improving accuracy and end user satisfaction. Travel platforms, Booking.com and GOL as well as Oki Electric Industry selected many of our LOB and industry AI offerings in addition to PC. Our Software and Cloud offerings also gained significant momentum with key wins, including companies like Airbus. Successful go-lives included Fonterra, Dohler and Natura Cosmeticos.

接著談 AI 相關交易。重要勝利包括全球最大的專業服務公司之一 PwC。他們選擇我們的 AI 來改造一個複雜的計費流程，將原本 35 分鐘的工作縮短到僅 5 分鐘，同時提升準確性與終端使用者滿意度。旅遊平台 Booking.com 與 GOL，以及 Oki Electric Industry，除 PC 之外也選用了我們多項 LOB 與產業 AI 方案。我們的軟體與雲端產品也在關鍵客戶上取得顯著動能，包括 Airbus 等公司。成功上線的案例包括 Fonterra、Dohler 與 Natura Cosmeticos。

To deliver our AI vision, we also continue our own transformation. We are moving with full speed to turn SAP into an autonomous enterprise. In engineering and technology, we are transforming our operating model from software development to building AI at scale. We are doubling down on our oncology development with our best domain experts working on knowledge first for every industry and LOB. And we are accelerating innovation, targeting complete agent delivery in under three weeks.

為了實現我們的 AI 願景，我們也持續推動自身轉型。我們正全速推進，將 SAP 打造成一家自主企業。在工程與技術方面，我們正將營運模式從軟體開發轉型為以規模化方式打造 AI。我們加倍投入腫瘤學（oncology）開發，由最優秀的領域專家針對每個產業與每條業務線（LOB）以「知識優先」方式工作。同時我們也在加速創新，目標是在三週內完成完整代理交付。

By applying tools like low-code, we're also increasing overall developer productivity by up to 30%. In go-to-market, we are also evolving our operating model. The consulting AI factory is a prime example. Over 3,000 SAP consultants are driving AI adoption directly with more than 2,000 customers. Over the next few weeks, we will roll out Joule Work desktop internally to drive additional productivity across all functions.

透過採用低程式碼等工具，我們也將整體開發者生產力提升最多達 30%。在市場推進（go-to-market）方面，我們也在演進營運模式。顧問 AI 工廠（consulting AI factory）就是一個典型例子。超過 3,000 名 SAP 顧問正直接與 2,000 多家客戶推動 AI 採用。在接下來幾週內，我們將在內部推出 Joule Work 桌面版，以在各項職能上帶動進一步的生產力提升。

While we are driving significant efficiency gains with AI, we are making investments in our workforce, both by investing in world-class AI talent as well as up and reskilling at full speed. We are rolling out a range of code camps and in-person training offerings across our key locations with the target of reaching more than 90% of our employees over the next few months. In addition to upskilling our people, we are focusing our hiring efforts to bring in the industry's best data scientists and AI experts. Their leading skills will complement our deep business process and domain know-how. Let me summarize.

在透過 AI 推動顯著效率提升的同時，我們也在人才隊伍上進行投資：一方面引進世界級 AI 人才，另一方面也以最快速度推動員工的技能提升與再培訓。我們正在主要據點推出一系列程式訓練營（code camps）與實體訓練方案，目標是在未來幾個月覆蓋超過 90% 的員工。除了提升內部人才技能外，我們也聚焦招募，延攬業界最優秀的資料科學家與 AI 專家。他們的領先技能將補強我們深厚的業務流程與領域專業知識。我來做個總結。

In Q2, we delivered a strong quarter with strong momentum in our business. In the age of agentic AI, SAP is leading the way. The autonomous enterprise is anchored in AI agents that can run end-to-end business processes accurately, compliantly and cost effectively and always with the human in the loop. SAP successfully completed our transformation to the cloud, and we will once again successfully transform in the AI era to deliver accelerated growth and profitability.

在第二季，我們交出強勁的一季，業務動能也非常強。在代理式 AI（agentic AI）的時代，SAP 正引領方向。自主企業以 AI 代理為核心，這些代理能夠端到端地執行業務流程，兼具準確性、合規性與成本效益，並且始終保持人在迴路（human in the loop）。SAP 已成功完成向雲端的轉型，而我們也將在 AI 時代再次成功轉型，以實現加速成長與獲利能力提升。

And with that, I'll hand over to Dominik.

接下來我把時間交給 Dominik。

Thank you very much, Christian, and thank you all for joining us this evening. To build on what Christian shared in his opening remarks, Q2 was a strong quarter for SAP, supported by sustained current backlog growth and further improving free cash flow generation. These results were delivered against the backdrop of a complex and uncertain operating environment with the ongoing conflict in the Middle East continuing to weigh on customer sentiment and decision-making. Despite these headwinds, we remain focused on executing our strategy and continue to see progress across our strategic priorities. At Sapphire in May, we outlined our vision for the autonomous enterprise and the expanded role of AI across our portfolio.

非常感謝你，Christian，也感謝各位今晚加入我們。延續 Christian 在開場致詞中分享的內容，SAP 第二季表現強勁，受惠於當期積壓訂單（current backlog）持續成長，以及自由現金流創造能力進一步改善。這些成果是在複雜且不確定的營運環境下取得的；中東持續的衝突仍在影響客戶情緒與決策。儘管面臨這些逆風，我們仍專注於執行策略，並持續看到在各項策略優先事項上的進展。在五月的 Sapphire 大會上，我們闡述了自主企業的願景，以及 AI 在我們產品組合中擴大的角色。

While these innovations are still at an early stage, we believe they can create new commercial opportunities over time and support durable growth beyond the current cloud transition. Importantly, we continue to invest in these areas while maintaining our commitment to the operating leverage framework we've laid out. These results reflect the resilience of our business model and give us confidence in the path ahead. Now let me provide more details on our financial highlights. Current cloud backlog reached almost EUR23 billion, up 26%, benefiting from the first-time inclusion of Reltio, which only contributed less than 1-percentage-point to the constant currency growth rate. While CCB growth sequentially accelerated, we continue to expect a slight deceleration exiting the year.

雖然這些創新仍處於早期階段，我們相信它們將隨時間推移創造新的商業機會，並在當前雲端轉型之外支撐可持續的長期成長。重要的是，我們在持續投資這些領域的同時，仍維持對我們已闡述之營運槓桿框架的承諾。這些成果反映了我們商業模式的韌性，並讓我們對未來的道路充滿信心。現在我將提供更多關於我們財務重點的細節。當前雲端待履約合約（Current cloud backlog）接近230億歐元，成長26%，受惠於首次納入Reltio；Reltio對以固定匯率計算的成長率貢獻不到1個百分點。雖然CCB成長率較前一季加速，但我們仍預期在年底前會出現輕微放緩。

As you are all aware, the situation in the Middle East remains fluid and the longer it persists, the more it weighs on customer decision-making, particularly in directly affected industries and supply chains. That said, the breadth of our pipeline, the mission-critical nature of our solutions and the fact that the second half of the year typically accounts for the lion's share of our bookings give us confidence in our ability to execute against these opportunities in front of us. As expected, the year-over-year cloud revenue growth rate declined sequentially to 24%, reflecting several quarter-specific effects that particularly benefited the 2026 year-on-year comparison in the preceding first quarter.

如各位所知，中東局勢仍在變動之中，且持續時間越長，對客戶決策的影響越大，尤其是在直接受影響的產業與供應鏈。儘管如此，我們管線的廣度、解決方案的關鍵任務屬性，以及下半年通常占我們訂單的大部分，讓我們對把握眼前機會並有效執行充滿信心。如預期，雲端營收年增率較前一季下滑至24%，反映若干特定季度因素；這些因素在前一季第一季中特別有利於2026年的年對年比較。

You might recall the comments we made in that regard in our last quarterly earnings call. Also recall that in Q2 2025, we had roughly 2-percentage-points higher cloud revenue growth than in Q1. So there is a strong basis effect here. SaaS and PaaS combined continue to perform strongly with growth again far above the overall market. Cloud ERP suite revenue increased by 27% in Q2, now accounting for 88% of total cloud revenue.

你可能還記得我們在上次季度財報電話會議中對此所做的評論。也請回想，在2025年第二季，我們的雲端營收成長率約比第一季高出2個百分點。因此這裡存在明顯的基期效應。SaaS與PaaS合計仍持續強勁表現，成長再次遠高於整體市場。雲端ERP套件營收在第二季成長27%，目前占雲端總營收的88%。

Software licenses revenue decreased by 32%. Finally, total revenue in the second quarter was EUR9.9 billion, up 11%. Now a brief look at our regional performance. In the second quarter, SAP's cloud revenue performance was particularly strong in APJ and EMEA and solid in the Americas region. Brazil, France, Germany, Italy, India, South Korea and Spain had outstanding performance, while Australia, Singapore and the US were particularly strong.

軟體授權營收下滑32%。最後，第二季總營收為99億歐元，成長11%。接著簡要看一下我們的區域表現。第二季，SAP的雲端營收在亞太及日本（APJ）與歐洲、中東及非洲（EMEA）表現特別強勁，在美洲地區表現穩健。巴西、法國、德國、義大利、印度、南韓與西班牙表現亮眼；澳洲、新加坡與美國則特別強勁。

Now moving down the income statement. Our IFRS cloud gross margin in Q2 was 74.3% and non-IFRS was 74.6%, down 0.7-percentage-points year-over-year at constant currencies. IFRS operating profit increased by 8% to EUR2.6 billion. Non-IFRS operating profit was up by 9% to EUR2.7 billion. The quarter-on-quarter deceleration in IFRS and non-IFRS operating profit growth is mainly caused by lower cloud and total revenue growth in Q2 as compared to Q1 2026, an unusually low stock-based compensation expense in the first quarter of 2026, accelerated investments into research and development, higher marketing expenses in the quarter of the launch of the Autonomous Enterprise and finally, the slightly dilutive impact of the Reltio acquisition, which just closed on May 7.

現在往下看損益表。第二季我們的IFRS雲端毛利率為74.3%，非IFRS為74.6%，以固定匯率計算年減0.7個百分點。IFRS營業利益成長8%至26億歐元。非IFRS營業利益成長9%至27億歐元。IFRS與非IFRS營業利益成長率較前一季放緩，主要原因包括：第二季雲端與總營收成長低於2026年第一季；2026年第一季的股票基礎給付費用異常偏低；研發投資加速；在Autonomous Enterprise推出的季度行銷費用較高；以及5月7日剛完成交割的Reltio收購案帶來的些微稀釋影響。

Additionally, we are investing to accelerate our own AI transformation. This includes rapid internal adoption of our AI solutions as well as targeted hiring in the most critical roles. These investments enable us to further enhance our products and drive efficiencies. At the same time, we're applying disciplined governance to manage our cost base and improve spend predictability.

此外，我們也在投資以加速自身的AI轉型。這包括快速在內部採用我們的AI解決方案，以及在最關鍵的職務上進行目標式招募。這些投資使我們能進一步強化產品並提升效率。同時，我們也透過嚴謹的治理來管理成本基礎並改善支出可預測性。

The IFRS effective tax rate was 26.5% and the non-IFRS effective tax rate was 30.8%. The IFRS effective tax rate is lower than the non-IFRS effective tax rate due to tax benefits from tax-exempt income. Free cash flow in Q2 was robust at EUR3 billion. Finally, IFRS earnings per share increased by 30% to EUR1.89 and non-IFRS earnings per share increased by 6% to EUR1.59. Now on to the outlook.

IFRS有效稅率為26.5%，非IFRS有效稅率為30.8%。IFRS有效稅率低於非IFRS有效稅率，係因免稅收入帶來的稅務利益。第二季自由現金流強勁，達30億歐元。最後，IFRS每股盈餘成長30%至1.89歐元，非IFRS每股盈餘成長6%至1.59歐元。接下來談展望。

As you will have seen in the quarterly statement issued earlier today, we are maintaining our financial outlook for all top line parameters and free cash flow. We are adjusting our operating profit outlook by EUR0.1 billion and now expect EUR11.8 billion to EUR11.2 billion to reflect the dilutive impact of the recent Dremio and Prior Labs acquisitions. As announced last quarter, we are planning to fully offset the slightly dilutive effect of the Reltio acquisition on our non-IFRS operating income.

如你在今日稍早發布的季度聲明中所見，我們維持所有營收端（top line）參數與自由現金流的財務展望不變。我們將營業利益展望調整0.1十億歐元，現在預期為118億歐元至112億歐元，以反映近期收購Dremio與Prior Labs所帶來的稀釋影響。如上季所宣布，我們計畫完全抵銷Reltio收購案對我們非IFRS營業利益的些微稀釋效果。

As you will see in the half year report, Reltio has generated an IFRS loss after tax in closing since closing on May 7 to the tune of EUR10 million in Q2. Adjusting to non-IFRS operating profit by taking taxes and items such as amortization of acquisition-related intangibles out, we are down to high single-digit million euro amount. However, Dremio and Prior Labs in combination will weigh on H2 2026 with a very low triple-digit million euro amount.

如你在半年報中將看到，Reltio自5月7日完成交割以來，在第二季產生約1,000萬歐元的IFRS稅後虧損。透過調整至非IFRS營業利益（剔除稅項及如收購相關無形資產攤銷等項目），虧損縮小至數百萬歐元的高個位數水準。然而，Dremio與Prior Labs合計將在2026年下半年帶來影響，金額為非常低的三位數百萬歐元水準。

We feel that the current environment and the investment needs in our own AI transformation do not support what will effectively be a noticeable upgrade of the underlying organic non-IFRS operating profit outlook we gave at the beginning of the year. To cut it short, we are fully on track on our initial non-IFRS operating profit outlook, which obviously did not include any M&A effects despite all macro headwinds so far this year.

我們認為，當前環境以及我們自身AI轉型的投資需求，不支持對年初所給出的有機（organic）非IFRS營業利益基礎展望進行實質性的上調。簡而言之，儘管今年迄今面臨各種總體經濟逆風，我們仍完全按軌道達成最初的非IFRS營業利益展望；而該展望顯然未包含任何併購（M&A）影響。

We continue to target an 80% to 90% expense to revenue ratio despite the J curves of the recent M&A investment coming. We have great confidence in the impact of AI-driven productivity measures as they are going to pay off over the coming years.

即使近期併購投資帶來的J曲線效應即將出現，我們仍持續以費用對營收比率80%至90%為目標。我們對AI驅動的生產力措施之影響充滿信心，因為它們將在未來數年逐步回收並帶來成效。

With respect to current cloud backlog, our expectation of a slight deceleration over the course of the year remains unchanged. The second half typically accounts for the lion's share of our annual bookings, and we remain focused on converting the pipeline we have built. As the situation in the Middle East remains in flux, the range of possible outcomes for the metric continues to be wider than we would like. To close, while there has been no shortage of volatility in the macro environment and massive noise around the alleged SaaS apocalypse over the last quarters, the underlying trajectory of our business remains fully intact as evidenced by solid and sustained current cloud backlog growth.

就當前雲端待履約合約而言，我們對全年出現輕微放緩的預期維持不變。下半年通常占我們全年訂單的大部分，我們仍專注於將已建立的管線轉化為實際訂單。由於中東局勢仍在變動，該指標可能出現的結果範圍仍比我們希望的更寬。最後，儘管總體環境波動不斷，且過去幾季圍繞所謂SaaS末日論的雜音甚大，我們業務的基本走勢仍完全完好無損，從穩健且持續的當前雲端待履約合約成長即可見一斑。

By virtue of starting to harvest the fruit of our successful cloud transformation, we're well positioned to honor our commitments to capital markets, while at the same time, heavily investing in our own transformation towards an Autonomous Enterprise to ensure the sustainability of our strong growth trajectories for years to come.

隨著我們開始收穫成功雲端轉型的成果，我們已具備良好條件履行對資本市場的承諾；同時，我們也將大力投資自身朝向Autonomous Enterprise的轉型，以確保未來多年強勁成長軌跡的可持續性。

The recent debate about exploding token costs at most enterprises supports our strategy of leveraging a unique combination of both deterministic, highly scalable and low-cost mission-critical enterprise applications on the one hand and probabilistic agentic AI-powered solutions on the other. We're highly assured deterministic solutions are not yet attainable and heavy human intervention is the baseline, AI can very effectively compete with labor. This ambidexterity at unrivaled levels of functional breadth, reliability, semantical richness, industry-specific process know-how, cost competitiveness and last but not least, enterprise-grade governance makes us the partner of choice for those enterprises who do not see AI as a destination, but a means to reach better efficiency.

近期關於多數企業代幣成本飆升的討論，支持我們的策略：一方面運用具確定性（deterministic）、高度可擴展且低成本的關鍵任務企業應用；另一方面運用具機率性（probabilistic）的代理式（agentic）AI驅動解決方案，形成獨特組合。我們高度確信，在確定性解決方案尚未可得、且大量人工作業介入仍是基準的情況下，AI能非常有效地與人力成本競爭。這種在功能廣度、可靠性、語意豐富度、產業特定流程專業知識、成本競爭力，以及最重要的企業級治理等方面達到無可匹敵水準的雙軌能力，使我們成為那些不把AI視為終點、而是視為提升效率手段之企業的首選合作夥伴。

All this without enterprise grade assurance requirements at risk. We are more convinced than ever that our strategy not to be locked into any generic large language frontier model, but to flexibly benefit from the vibrant competition amongst them in terms of both performance but also cost is the right one.

所有這些都不會讓企業級保障要求面臨風險。我們比以往任何時候都更確信，我們的策略是不被任何通用的大型語言前沿模型所綁定，而是能夠在它們之間充分享受充滿活力的競爭所帶來的好處——不僅在效能上，也在成本上——這是正確的策略。

And in times of high geopolitical uncertainties, customers do value the resilience of this model delivered by a provider actually headquartered in Germany. Sovereign requirements are taking center stage for more and more customers. We will continue to work very hard every day to reearn the trust they put into us. Our priorities for the second half of the year are clear: sustain the momentum in our cloud business, delivering on operating leverage we have committed to and close the year with strength.

而在地緣政治高度不確定的時期，客戶確實重視由一家實際總部設在德國的供應商所提供之此一模式的韌性。對於越來越多的客戶而言，主權要求正成為核心焦點。我們將持續每天非常努力地工作，以重新贏回他們對我們的信任。我們下半年的優先事項很明確：延續雲端業務的動能，兌現我們承諾的營運槓桿，並以強勁態勢結束本年度。

Thank you, and we're happy to take your questions now.

謝謝，我們現在很樂意回答各位的提問。

Alright. We will now take your question. I would like to remind you to only ask one question when prompted. Operator, please open the line for the first question.

好的。我們現在開始提問。提醒各位，在被點名時請只提一個問題。接線員，請開放第一個問題的線路。

(Operator Instructions)

(接線員指示)

Adam Wood, Morgan Stanley.

Adam Wood，摩根士丹利。

It's probably one for you, Dominik. I think investors have got used to the kind of beat and raise cycle from SAP on the operating income line and just maybe a little bit of a surprise to see the weaker second quarter. I appreciate there are good reasons behind that. But maybe also the cut for the full year suggests there was a little bit less room for maneuver than people thought. I know you've given that 80% to 90% expense to revenue growth guide, continue to guide for that for '27.

這題可能要問你，Dominik。我想投資人已經習慣 SAP 在營業利益這一行的「超預期並上調指引」循環，而第二季較弱可能讓人有點意外。我理解背後有合理原因。但全年下修也許也顯示可操作的空間比大家想的要小一些。我知道你們給了 80% 到 90% 的費用對營收成長指引，並且仍維持對 2027 年的該項指引。

But could you just talk a little bit about going into a bit more depth there around how you think about how much room there is for margin expansion in the business over the next 12 to 24 months? Has there been a shift in focus in terms of what you need to invest in the business and what you need to invest to drive top line growth versus driving the margins higher? And maybe specifically on the AI investments you're making internally in the business, any more detail you can give us on the scale and time frame of payoffs of those?

但你能否更深入談談，未來 12 到 24 個月你們如何看待業務的利潤率擴張空間有多大？在需要投資以推動營收成長，與推動利潤率提高之間，你們的投資重點是否有所轉移？另外，特別是你們在公司內部所進行的 AI 投資，能否提供更多關於規模以及回收（效益實現）的時間框架細節？

Well, that's a lot of questions, but all centering around, I think, the operating profit for Q2. I mean, first of all, let me reiterate that it's, from my perspective, not really conducive to look at one single quarter, but it's really over several quarters. For instance, if you look at the first half, you see that our operating leverage envelope has been well respected. And we will also see -- we also see that for the full year '26, we'll be well in that kind of operating leverage formula. And that's even including the acquisitions, all the acquisitions we have made.

嗯，這問題很多，但我想都圍繞在第二季的營業利益上。首先我想重申，從我的角度來看，只看單一季度其實不太有意義，應該看好幾個季度的趨勢。例如，如果你看上半年，你會看到我們的營運槓桿區間是被很好地遵守的。而且我們也看到——對於 2026 全年，我們會很好地落在那個營運槓桿公式之內。這甚至已經包含了併購——我們所做的所有併購。

And so of course, it pushes the kind of point a little bit more to the downside of the range. But we think the real absolute highest priority is to drive the AI transformation forcefully and to protect the top line in the current environment, while still preserving discipline on the growth.

因此，當然會讓結果更偏向區間的下緣。但我們認為，最最優先的絕對重點，是強力推動 AI 轉型，同時在當前環境下保護營收（top line），並且仍然維持對成長的紀律。

In many areas like development, of course, we are in a stage where we are ramping capacities. We mentioned the hirings we did for selective -- very selective but very high-performing resources, but also the widespreading talking where basically we are also now improving the efficiency and improving the bang for the buck, introducing model routing technologies and so forth to optimize the bang for the buck. So this is why I mentioned in my introductory remarks, from my perspective, there is no point in extrapolating just one single quarter where we had a concentration of all the factors I've already mentioned, which I can also reiterate if you're interested in. It was a little bit of a special quarter, so don't read too much into that.

在許多領域，例如研發，我們當然正處於擴充產能的階段。我們提到過我們所做的招募——非常有選擇性，但都是非常高績效的人才；同時也在更廣泛的層面上推動，基本上我們也正在提升效率、提高投入產出比，導入模型路由（model routing）技術等，以最佳化投入產出比。因此我在開場致詞中提到，從我的角度來看，沒有必要只用單一季度來外推，因為那一季集中出現了我已經提過的所有因素——如果你有興趣我也可以再重申一次。那是一個有點特殊的季度，所以不要過度解讀。

Now -- it is true though that the M&A acquisitions we did, they will have actually an impact which is in excess of EUR100 million. And we, of course, had a debate now should we basically upgrade the underlying organic guidance and say we absorb that on top or should we keep the bigger room to drive aggressive growth and we decided to go for the latter. So that's the backdrop, I think, on that.

不過——確實，我們所做的併購將帶來超過 1 億歐元的影響。當然我們也討論過：是否要上調底層的有機指引，並表示我們會在此之上吸收該影響；或是保留更大的空間以推動更積極的成長，而我們決定採取後者。我想這就是其背景。

And maybe, Adam, just to build on what Dominik said, I mean, as we are also now building the plan for the next 12 months, and I always draw a little bit of comparison to our cloud transformation. I mean, the good piece this time is when you think about our gross margin, I mean there is nothing which now stops us with the ability to switch models to always choose the best model for an ideal price outcome.

Adam，我再補充 Dominik 的說法：我們現在也在制定未來 12 個月的計畫，我總會拿來和我們的雲端轉型做一些對照。這次的好處是，當你想到我們的毛利率時，憑藉我們能夠切換模型的能力，沒有任何事情會阻止我們總是選擇在理想價格結果下的最佳模型。

And we see already that for many agents we are now developing, especially for Joule Work, we don't always need to use the expensive frontier models. So that will always help us to manage the gross margin at a very healthy level. Second, when you think about the productivity overall of the company, when I look at development, I mean, right now, we are very busy to shift the backlog from SaaS features, UI enhancements to AI development.

而我們已經看到，對於我們正在開發的許多代理（agents），特別是 Joule Work，我們並不總是需要使用昂貴的前沿模型。因此，這將一貫有助於我們把毛利率維持在非常健康的水準。第二，當你思考公司整體的生產力時，以研發來看，我們目前正忙著把待辦工作（backlog）從 SaaS 功能、UI 強化，轉移到 AI 開發上。

But what you need is what we already have in-house. We have a lot of domain know-how. We have a lot of domain know-how in data and business processes. Now we need to hire a few great data scientists to build the ontology layer. That's what we need. But there's nothing like now in DevOps where we need to build up a massive operations like in the cloud transformation.

但你所需要的，其實是我們內部已經具備的能力。我們有大量的產業／領域（domain）專業知識。我們在資料與業務流程方面也有大量的領域專業知識。現在我們需要的是招募少數優秀的資料科學家來建立本體（ontology）層。這就是我們需要的。但不像在 DevOps 上，我們需要像雲端轉型時那樣建立龐大的營運體系。

The good piece is on the go-to-market side, we need our consultants now to drive massive agent extensions and also adoption. And there, we are now reshuffling parts of our consulting to really work with the customers' hands-on in the hybrid landscapes to really drive that. And so we have a lot of the capabilities already in-house. In the second half now, it's all about also reskilling, enabling our workforce to work with AI. But when I also look at the productivity levels, what I just mentioned in development, depending on the area, we see on an average a 30% productivity increase.

好的一面是，在 go-to-market 端，我們需要顧問來推動大規模的代理擴展以及採用。在這方面，我們正在重新調整部分顧問團隊，讓他們在混合式環境中與客戶更「動手」地合作，真正推動落地。因此，我們已有許多能力在內部。下半年也將著重於再技能化（reskilling），讓我們的員工能夠使用 AI。但當我也看生產力水準時，就像我剛才在研發提到的，視領域而定，我們平均看到約 30% 的生產力提升。

And I'm convinced, especially when it comes to now adding more agents, adding more data layers to our applications, I actually see that this is not even the end. We can easily reach a higher productivity level, but we need to give ourselves a little bit of time in the second half. But again, the outlook for the next 12 months, I don't see anything now similar to the cloud transformation where we had to invest massively into the buildup of our operations.

而我相信，特別是在現在要加入更多代理、為我們的應用加入更多資料層時，我確實認為這甚至還不是終點。我們很容易達到更高的生產力水準，但我們需要在下半年給自己一點時間。但再說一次，對於未來 12 個月的展望，我看不到任何類似雲端轉型那樣、需要我們在營運建置上投入巨額資本的情況。

Mohammed Moawalla, Goldman Sachs.

Mohammed Moawalla，高盛。

My question was more focused on the top line. Given you haven't really seen any deceleration sort of to date in the CCB, can you talk about the kind of now the visibility you have for the rest of the year on the cloud revenue. And then just sort of to extend that one step forward, Christian, can you talk a bit about how the pipeline has evolved kind of coming out of Sapphire with obviously the launch of the road map and some of the agents.

我的問題比較聚焦在營收端（top line）。鑑於你們迄今在 CCB 並未真正看到任何放緩，你能否談談你們對今年剩餘時間雲端營收的可見度如何。然後再往前延伸一步，Christian，你能否談談在 Sapphire 之後，隨著路線圖的發布以及一些代理（agents）的推出，銷售管線（pipeline）是如何演變的？

So when do you sort of expect to sort of drive some of the -- both the adoption but monetization of some of your kind of AI solutions? Could you see that effect potentially towards the end of the year? Or is it still kind of more into next year and beyond?

那麼你們大概預期何時能推動你們某些 AI 解決方案的採用，以及變現（monetization）？你們是否可能在今年年底前看到那個效果？還是仍然要到明年及之後才會更明顯？

I can get started and Dominik, please add. I mean being seven months now in the year, I mean, of course, the predictability on cloud revenue is becoming better and better. So we are very confident to hit our guidance for the year despite the volatility we still see and we had in -- especially in Q1.

我先開始，Dominik 也請補充。我的意思是，今年已經過了七個月，當然，對雲端營收的可預測性正變得越來越好。因此，儘管我們仍看到、也在——尤其是第一季——經歷了波動，我們仍非常有信心達成今年的財測指引。

Now the pipeline after Sapphire is for half year two better than expected, and it's a better coverage than the last year, especially where customers saw the new platform, and we have a lot of customers, hundreds of customers now in the beta testing, the feedback is extraordinary good. The good piece is also that a lot of our customers, obviously, truth to be told, build custom agents. And -- but they all somehow came back and said, hey, we are really missing a good price outcome ratio. We are missing the efficiency gains, the value we expected. And also the IT teams are oftentimes really completely overwhelmed by managing the agents in the hundreds of countries.

至於 Sapphire 之後的管線，下半年比預期更好，覆蓋度也比去年更佳，特別是客戶看到了新平台；我們現在有很多客戶、數百家客戶在進行 Beta 測試，回饋非常、非常好。另外一個好消息是，我們很多客戶——老實說——會自行打造客製化代理。但是他們都以某種方式回來告訴我們：我們真的缺少一個好的價格/成果比（price outcome ratio）。我們缺少效率提升，缺少我們原本期待的價值。而且 IT 團隊往往也真的被在數百個國家管理這些代理的工作壓得喘不過氣。

So also the governance is not easy. And there, the customers really saw now SAP with the new platform, with the announcement we did. That definitely also reconfirmed the belief that SAP will deliver the leading AI platform.

因此治理（governance）也不容易。在這方面，客戶現在看到了 SAP 的新平台，以及我們所做的公告。這也確實再次確認了他們的信念：SAP 將交付領先的 AI 平台。

So net-net, despite the macro volatility, we see a very positive pipeline for the half year, too. And obviously, now when the customers also see now by building the agents in their hybrid landscapes, they also see continuously the need to modernize the landscapes. I mean that's also a very important pillar now in Q2. You saw the big RISE deals we closed. And all of these customers said, hey, with the current data quality, with the current complexity in my ERP landscapes, AI is going nowhere.

總而言之，儘管宏觀環境波動，我們看到下半年有非常正向的管線。而且很明顯地，當客戶在其混合式環境中打造代理時，他們也持續看到需要將環境現代化。我想這也是第二季非常重要的一個支柱。你們看到我們簽下的大型 RISE 交易。而所有這些客戶都說：以我目前的資料品質、以我 ERP 環境目前的複雜度，AI 根本無從發揮。

So we need to modernize while we need to implement and drive adoption of AI. And both they are getting with SAP. And that actually also now was really reassuring in Q2 that a lot of customers are realizing, hey, we need to do both. We can't stop on ERP migrations while, of course, we want to lever the power of AI.

所以我們需要在導入並推動 AI 採用的同時，進行現代化。而這兩者他們都能從 SAP 得到。這也在第二季讓人非常安心：很多客戶正在意識到，我們需要兩者並行。我們不能在想要運用 AI 力量的同時，停止 ERP 遷移。

Quantitatively, I think just comparing the evolution of '26 to what happened in '25, in '25, we had a quite a higher-than-expected deceleration in CCB growth. We guided slightly and then it turned out to be more than slightly. Now we had a much better start actually in '26. We guided slightly, but you've seen not much attrition even if you adjust for M&A, it's actually a very stable CCB development. Now the reason why we still stick with slightly is very much the macro uncertainty for the second half of the year, where the outcomes can be more nuanced, different depending on what type of escalation you might see.

從量化角度來看，我想把 2026 年的演變與 2025 年相比：在 2025 年，我們看到 CCB 成長出現了高於預期的放緩。我們當時給的指引是「小幅」放緩，但結果放緩幅度超過「小幅」。而 2026 年我們其實有一個更好的開局。我們同樣給的是「小幅」，但你們看到即使調整併購因素，流失（attrition）也不多，CCB 的發展其實非常穩定。我們之所以仍維持「小幅」的說法，主要是因為下半年宏觀不確定性，結果可能更為細緻、也會因你可能看到的升級程度不同而有所差異。

But I think operationally kind of depolluted CCB growth development is much more stable this year. And also in relation to the current -- sorry, the cloud revenue growth, we now see that while last year, there was a big gap of cloud revenues were below CCB growth that now has flipped. So that's really positive from our perspective.

但我認為，從營運面來看、把雜訊剔除後（depolluted）的 CCB 成長走勢，今年穩定得多。另外，關於目前——抱歉——雲端營收成長，我們現在看到：去年雲端營收低於 CCB 成長，兩者之間有很大的落差；而現在這個情況已經翻轉。從我們的角度來看，這是非常正面的。

Ben Castillo, BNP Paribas.

Ben Castillo，法國巴黎銀行（BNP Paribas）。

Just really on that cloud revenue outlook, please. H1 is running slightly ahead of your guidance. So we're looking at quite a material deceleration in cloud revenue growth in the second half to get to your guidance midpoint. Again, this despite adding more M&A despite CCB growth reaccelerating in Q2 and also growing ahead of cloud revenues, which is usually positive directionally for trailing cloud revenue growth. So I guess how much of this is just prudence given what's going on in the world, but how much is actually what you really expect?

想再請教雲端營收展望。上半年表現略高於你們的指引。因此若要達到你們指引的中位數，我們看到下半年雲端營收成長需要出現相當明顯的放緩。而這還是在新增更多併購、第二季 CCB 成長再加速、且 CCB 成長也領先雲端營收（通常方向性上對後續雲端營收成長是正面的）的情況下。所以我想問：這當中有多少只是基於當前世界局勢的保守（prudence），又有多少其實是你們真正的預期？

And how can we get comfortable with that deceleration that's now implied in the second half? Just a quick follow-up would be just on the macro side. Did you actually see any sort of impact on sales cycles and pipeline conversion in Q2? Could the backlog growth to be better in Q2 without that?

以及我們要如何對下半年現在所隱含的那個放緩感到安心？再快速追問一個宏觀面的問題：你們在第二季是否真的看到銷售週期與管線轉換（pipeline conversion）受到任何影響？如果沒有那些影響，第二季的積壓訂單（backlog）成長是否可能更好？

Yes. I mean because of the macro now in Q2, definitely, I mean, look at the CCB, super strong. We don't see any major backlog because of macro. I mean, obviously, in the Middle East, a few deals here and there got delayed, but definitely not at the broader scale. And let's hope that it continues like that in the second half.

是的。我的意思是，因為第二季的宏觀環境，確實——你看看 CCB，非常強勁。我們沒有看到因宏觀因素而造成任何重大的積壓訂單問題。當然，在中東有零星幾筆交易被延後，但絕對不是更大範圍的情況。也希望下半年能持續如此。

Now obviously, with regard to the revenue in the second half, very important for me to mention is, I mean, all three acquisitions now we did was not to acquire growth. I mean, first of all, all three acquisitions have only a very, very minor impact on CCB and revenue. The latest two actually have no impact on cloud revenue. And so for us, this was very important to just strengthen our data and ontology layer, what I just outlined in my intro. And then last but not least, obviously, now with being seven months in the year, as I just said, of course, the predictability becomes better and better. So we are more and more confident that we can also hit the guidance what we outlined at the beginning of the year despite all of the volatility we see out there in the market.

至於下半年的營收，我認為非常重要的一點是：我們現在做的三筆收購，並不是為了收購成長。首先，這三筆收購對 CCB 與營收的影響都非常、非常小。最近兩筆實際上對雲端營收沒有影響。因此，對我們而言，這些收購非常重要的目的，是強化我們的資料與本體（ontology）層，也就是我在開場時所概述的。最後但同樣重要的是，既然今年已經過了七個月，如我剛才所說，當然可預測性會越來越好。因此，儘管市場上仍有各種波動，我們也越來越有信心能達成我們在年初所提出的指引。

Kirk Materne, Evercore ISI.

Kirk Materne，Evercore ISI。

Christian, can you just follow up on that last point on the most two recent acquisitions you've done. I'd be curious sort of if you could just go over again the thought process behind specifically Prior Labs and the idea of bringing on technologists, obviously, around tabular models. And then sort of what is the strategy for taking that IP and then monetizing it across the customer base? Can you just give us an idea of how we should think about sort of the return on that acquisition in particular? Obviously, I realize Dremio plays into it a little bit as well.

Christian，我想就你剛才最後一點、關於你們最近兩筆收購再追問一下。我想請你再說明一次，特別是 Prior Labs 背後的思考脈絡，以及引進技術人才——顯然是圍繞表格模型（tabular models）——的想法。然後你們將如何把那個 IP 的策略，擴展到客戶基礎並進行變現？你能否讓我們了解一下，我們應該如何看待這筆收購（尤其是這一筆）的投資報酬？當然，我也理解 Dremio 也在其中扮演了一點角色。

Yes. I mean, first, I mean, I said it last time, we went definitely over the last two years through a learning curve in development when it comes to building accurate and reliable AI. Now what we are now doing with the new platform, and again, the test, the accuracy tests we are doing very, very promising.

是的。我的意思是，首先，我的意思是，我上次也說過，過去兩年在打造精準且可靠的 AI 方面，我們確實經歷了一段開發上的學習曲線。現在我們在新平台上所做的事情，以及同樣地，我們正在進行的準確度測試，都非常、非常令人振奮。

First, the agents, they have access to a lot of mission-critical data in the ERP, the most mission-critical data of a company, which is great. Now when you're doing replenishment, when you're doing financial forecasting, when you're doing workforce planning, obviously, oftentimes, you not only need SAP data, you need also non-SAP data. That's why we acquired Dremio, and that gives us access to this data without copying it, we have real-time access. That is very important.

首先，這些代理（agents）可以存取 ERP 中大量攸關任務的資料，也就是一家企業最關鍵的資料，這很棒。現在當你在做補貨、做財務預測、做人力規劃時，很明顯地，很多時候你不只需要 SAP 資料，也需要非 SAP 資料。這就是我們收購 Dremio 的原因，它讓我們在不複製資料的情況下就能存取這些資料，並且能即時存取。這非常重要。

Now with Reltio, obviously, the second layer is then now you have a lot of data. I mean you can have that also with Databricks with Snowflake and others. But now you need high-quality data. We have a very strong master data governance solution, but we were missing a master data governance solution for non-SAP data because we want to build one semantical data layer. So, in development, we are shifting now our developers more and more to really not only expose data products on our new platform, but also joining data products.

接著有了 Reltio，很明顯地，第二層就是你現在擁有大量資料。我的意思是，你也可以透過 Databricks、Snowflake 等其他方案做到。但接下來你需要的是高品質資料。我們有非常強的主資料治理（master data governance）解決方案，但我們缺少一個針對非 SAP 資料的主資料治理解決方案，因為我們想建立一個語意資料層。因此在開發上，我們正逐步把更多開發人員的重心，從僅僅在新平台上揭露資料產品，轉向也要把資料產品做串接（joining）。

I mean a customer model for customer churn, for example, includes over 100 data objects across the ERP, plus oftentimes over 400 data objects in the non-SAP world. So, for example, in the Salesforce system, also sometimes even on social media on the web. And we are joining the data products to build the semantical modules.

我的意思是，例如用於客戶流失（customer churn）的客戶模型，會涵蓋 ERP 內超過 100 個資料物件，再加上通常在非 SAP 世界裡超過 400 個資料物件。所以例如在 Salesforce 系統中，有時甚至也會在網路上的社群媒體。而我們會把這些資料產品串接起來，以建立語意模組。

And then Prior Labs comes in, and we want to keep this open source, but we want to monetize it via our agents. I mean, we are pricing our agent based on value. And Prior Labs will give our agents the ability to predict more accurately than any other agent in the industry because we will use the tabular AI modules to really -- where we can source SAP and non-SAP data and they can run predictions without curating data, without managing a data pipeline and they drive predictions up to a level of 99% accuracy where you need it before a bunch of data scientists to get this done.

然後 Prior Labs 就派上用場了；我們希望保持它為開源，但我們希望透過我們的代理來變現。我的意思是，我們是依價值來為代理定價。而 Prior Labs 將賦予我們的代理比業界任何其他代理更精準的預測能力，因為我們會使用表格型（tabular）AI 模組——在這裡我們可以取得 SAP 與非 SAP 資料來源，並且它們可以在不整理資料、不管理資料管線的情況下執行預測，將預測準確度提升到在需要的地方可達 99% 的水準；而過去要做到這點，得靠一群資料科學家。

So we can deliver these predictions out of the box. And when you look at predictions, you need it in finance, you need it in sales, you need it in a lot of industry AI agents. And that's why we want to use the Prior Labs tabular AI module to include that into our agentic AI layer and monetize it via the agents. We don't want to monetize the model on its own. We want to monetize it via the value of our agents.

因此我們可以開箱即用地提供這些預測。而當你看預測需求時，財務需要、銷售需要，很多產業 AI 代理也都需要。這就是為什麼我們想把 Prior Labs 的表格型 AI 模組納入我們的代理式 AI（agentic AI）層，並透過代理來變現。我們不想單獨把模型拿來變現。我們想透過代理所帶來的價值來變現。

Maybe one -- maybe at the risk of stating obvious, what is also interesting about Prior Labs is that it's trained on tabular databases. I mean, no secret, SAP has probably the biggest reservoir of data of tabular databases. And that is not public data, it's proprietary data. So, that is, I think, a very different ball game from the large language models where a lot of public data is great. So the combination of that technology with the unique treasure of data that we have in that format, I think, positions us extremely well to run this frontier model here.

也許補充一點——也許冒著說明顯之事的風險，Prior Labs 另一個有趣之處在於，它是用表格型資料庫來訓練的。我的意思是，這不是秘密，SAP 可能擁有最大的表格型資料庫資料儲備。而那不是公開資料，而是專有資料。所以我認為，這跟大型語言模型那種大量公開資料很棒的情境，是非常不同的賽局。因此，把那項技術與我們在該格式下獨特的資料寶藏結合起來，我認為讓我們在這裡運行這個前沿模型（frontier model）時具備極佳的定位。

Michael Briest, UBS.

Michael Briest，瑞銀（UBS）。

Great. A question on the R&D side of things. So headcount looks to be up 3% year-on-year and the costs 14%. In Q1, the numbers were 2% and 2%. And I know Gina was talking about some sort of compensation structure change.

很好。我有一個關於研發（R&D）方面的問題。所以人頭數看起來年增 3%，而成本年增 14%。在第一季，數字分別是 2% 和 2%。我知道 Gina 提到某種薪酬結構的變更。

Can you elaborate on whether there's been some either targeted or sort of significant increase in rates for the R&D staff? And also where your token costs would go? Would those go into cost of sale or if they're related to developing products, would they go into R&D? And is that part of this increase?

你能否說明一下，研發人員的薪資水準是否有一些針對性或相當顯著的調升？另外，你們的 token 成本會歸到哪裡？這些會進入銷售成本（cost of sale），還是如果與產品開發相關，就會進入研發費用？這是否也是這次增加的一部分？

Good question, Michael. I mean, first of all, in the last 12 months, indeed, we still invested into new job profiles in R&D, data scientists, data engineers, we invested into full stack developers for industry AI. But we will now continuously heavily slow down the hiring for the other profiles because now that the AI productivity is kicking in and indeed, the highest token consumption is in R&D, we see productivity gains of an average of 30%. So there is no need anymore now to hire additional people.

好問題，Michael。我的意思是，首先，在過去 12 個月裡，我們確實仍在研發端投資新的職務類型：資料科學家、資料工程師；我們也為產業 AI 投資全端開發人員。但接下來我們會持續大幅放緩其他職務類型的招募，因為現在 AI 生產力正在發揮作用，而且確實，最高的 token 消耗是在研發端；我們看到平均約 30% 的生產力提升。所以現在不再需要再招募更多人。

You also see that the costs are more up than the headcount, that is actually the token effect, yes, because we charge the tokens, of course, to the functions who are using it. And then second, obviously, we also -- for very few top caliber people, we hired a few top caliber people, which came in with a higher personnel expense per FTE than the average what we are having. And that's what also what Gina was alluding to. But you can expect now in the next 12 months, not a further increase of headcount. It's just about getting a few experts in and then, of course, driving the productivity of R&D up in line with the token consumption.

你也看到成本增幅高於人頭數，這其實就是 token 的影響，是的，因為我們當然會把 token 成本分攤到使用它的職能部門。其次，很明顯地，我們也——針對極少數頂尖人才，我們招募了幾位頂尖人才，他們的每位全職員工（FTE）人事費用高於我們的平均水準。這也是 Gina 所暗示的部分。但你可以預期，接下來 12 個月人頭數不會再增加。重點只是引進少數專家，然後當然是讓研發生產力提升，並與 token 消耗相匹配。

Maybe one addition. I guess what is also very important, Michael, what we are doing, and that also depends -- it also relates to our customers. We are now also managing with our customers, the development backlog from SaaS features to AI development. And obviously, with this change in the backlog, I mean, we don't want to incrementally just add to the development backlog. We want to now change the backlog from feature development into agentic AI development.

也許再補充一點。我想同樣非常重要的是，Michael，我們正在做的事情，而且這也取決於——也與我們的客戶相關。我們現在也在與客戶一起管理開發待辦清單（development backlog），把重心從 SaaS 功能轉向 AI 開發。而且很明顯地，隨著待辦清單的這個變化，我的意思是，我們不想只是增量式地把工作加到開發待辦清單上。我們現在想把待辦清單從功能開發轉為代理式 AI（agentic AI）開發。

And obviously, that is also a transition period, not to forget. We cannot just say from one day to another, we stop feature development of our SaaS solution. But this will be a transition, which is, by the way, already on its way. The customers, of course, are heavily now interested in shifting their feature requirements into agent requirements, and that process is also ongoing to really, at the end, also see the wide R&D productivity in the next 12 months.

而且很明顯地，這也是一段轉換期，別忘了。我們不可能說從某一天起就停止我們 SaaS 解決方案的功能開發。但這將是一個轉換，而順帶一提，這個轉換已經在進行中。客戶當然非常有興趣把他們的功能需求轉成代理需求，而這個流程也正在進行中，最終也能在未來 12 個月看到整體研發生產力的提升。

Charlie Brennan, Jefferies.

Charlie Brennan，Jefferies。

Can you just say something on the recent European ruling on maintenance? There's some suggestion, I think, that giving customers more maintenance options potentially opens the door to them staying on ECC for longer. Do you think this ruling actually changes any behavior on the ground? And then maybe as a small modeling follow-up, Dominik, you've given us the loss run rate for Dremio and Prior Labs. But can you say anything about the revenue and the CCB contribution from them?

你能否談談最近歐洲關於維護（maintenance）的裁決？我想有一些說法是，給客戶更多維護選項，可能會讓他們有機會在 ECC 上停留更久。你認為這項裁決實際上會改變第一線的任何行為嗎？另外作為一個小的模型追問，Dominik，你已經給了我們 Dremio 和 Prior Labs 的虧損運行率（loss run rate）。但你能否談談它們的營收以及對 CCB 的貢獻？

Let's start with the last question. It's negligible. So contrary to Reltio, which had less than 1-percentage-point incremental CCB, not much different on cloud revenue growth. it's basically negligible on these two acquisitions. This is why we didn't comment on it much.

我們先從最後一個問題開始。影響可忽略不計。因此，與 Reltio 相反（其增量 CCB 低於 1 個百分點），在雲端營收成長方面並沒有太大差異；這兩筆收購基本上影響都可忽略不計。這也是為什麼我們沒有多加評論。

Now you said EU ruling, this is an agreement between the EU and SAP to commit to certain mitigants in terms of flexibility on maintenance. I mean, first of all, I want to stress that the maintenance is extremely highly valued by the lion's share of our customers. They clearly see the value of being current on cyber patches on compliance patches, legal patches on some functional improvements we bring to the table. And we have actually also in the past, granted flexibility and opportunities for these customers to adjust their software spend to the needs. And that has been, to some degree, now formalized in this agreement.

你提到歐盟裁決，這是一項歐盟與 SAP 之間的協議，承諾在維護彈性方面採取特定的緩解措施。首先，我想強調的是，我們絕大多數客戶都非常重視維護服務。他們清楚看到保持最新狀態的價值，包括資安修補、合規修補、法規修補，以及我們帶來的一些功能改進。而且過去我們也確實提供過彈性與機會，讓這些客戶能依需求調整其軟體支出。而這些內容如今在這項協議中，在某種程度上被正式化了。

And in some degrees, some more flexibility has been granted in limited scenarios for the customer. And for some customers that are actually prioritizing spend, lower spend over the advantages of maintenance and support I described, there might be an impact, but we think we can manage it. And don't forget that one is also phasing out more and more as we convert the customers onto cloud and RISE. And that has nothing to do actually with ECC versus S/4 transition because at some point in time, that maintenance will anyhow expire. In 2030, ECC maintenance is basically zero anyhow.

並且在某些程度上，也在有限情境下給予客戶更多彈性。對於一些確實把「優先控管支出、降低支出」置於我剛描述的維護與支援優勢之上的客戶，可能會有一些影響，但我們認為可以管理。也別忘了，隨著我們把客戶轉到雲端與 RISE，這種情況也會逐步淡出。而這其實與 ECC 對 S/4 的轉換無關，因為在某個時間點，維護本來就會到期。到 2030 年，ECC 維護基本上就會歸零。

So, and the last point I want to mention, we do actually see quite a nice pickup in returns from third-party maintenance. that gives us also confidence when people try that for a while, they tend to be more nervous over time about incidents happening and then come back. And actually, some of the discussions in that context are about how do we deal with the customers who are knocking our door and say, we want to come back and how much back maintenance do they need to pay and stuff.

另外最後一點我想提的是，我們確實看到從第三方維護回流的情況相當不錯。這也讓我們更有信心：人們嘗試一段時間後，往往會隨著時間推移，對事件發生更感到不安，然後就會回來。而且在這個脈絡下，有些討論其實是在談：我們要如何處理那些來敲門說「我們想回來」的客戶，以及他們需要補繳多少追溯維護費等等。

Frederic Boulan, Bank of America.

Frederic Boulan，美國銀行。

Frederic at Bank of America. If I can come back on the cost side, if you can comment on the decline we've seen in cloud margins this quarter and more broadly on the R&D side, so a bump as well in terms of percentage of sales. Is it something structural in terms of rebalancing from sales and marketing into R&D? Or as you were saying, it's more about an initial investment that should then normalize over time?

美國銀行的 Frederic。如果我可以回到成本面，能否請你評論一下我們本季看到的雲端毛利率下滑，以及更廣泛地談談研發面，也就是研發占銷售額比重同樣出現上升。這是否是結構性的變化，例如從銷售與行銷重新平衡到研發？還是如你所說，這更像是初期投資，之後會隨時間正常化？

Absolutely the latter one. I mean, give us some time, please. I mean, look, I mean, this is the second transformation we are now in. And as I mentioned before, first, you need to reshuffle the backlog. I mean our backlog was full of feature requests from our customers, and we need to have the time to reshuffle this now to AI -- and we are on a good path there.

絕對是後者。我的意思是，請給我們一些時間。你看，這是我們正在進行的第二次轉型。如我先前提到的，首先你需要重新整理待辦（backlog）。我們的待辦裡充滿了客戶的功能需求，而我們需要時間把它重新調整到 AI 上——而我們在這方面進展良好。

We already see that the share of agentic AI development in the backlog has substantially increased. And the second part of it, now we invested into getting the right experts into SAP. We invested into the AI tools. But at the same time, we are already seeing the productivity gains. And now in the next 12 months after I have done that, you will see very healthy R&D ratios going forward.

我們已經看到待辦中「代理式（agentic）AI」開發的占比大幅提高。第二部分是，我們投資把合適的專家引進 SAP。我們也投資 AI 工具。但同時，我們已經看到生產力提升。接下來 12 個月，在我完成這些之後，你會看到未來研發比率非常健康。

So there is no structural shift. And the same is true for the gross margin. Now in Q2, we had some onetime investments into the test environments for our new platform into Joule Work. So we had to do that. And we have a cost increase for the sovereignty environments we are delivering end-to-end.

所以不存在結構性轉變。毛利率也是同樣道理。在第二季，我們對新平台的測試環境、以及 Joule Work 做了一些一次性投資。所以我們必須這麼做。而且我們在提供端到端的主權（sovereignty）環境方面也有成本增加。

But still for the bulk of our cloud operations delivered by the hyperscalers, we see no cost increase. So, also there, there were some minor onetime impacts now in Q2, but nothing where we believe will continue now in the second half of the year on a 12-month outlook.

但對於由超大規模雲端服務商（hyperscalers）交付的絕大部分雲端營運，我們沒有看到成本上升。因此，在那部分，第二季確實有一些輕微的一次性影響，但我們不認為在今年下半年、以 12 個月展望來看會持續。

And recall, we always gave that kind of formula to say that total expenses will grow at 90% of the revenue growth. And we always said we want to have some wiggling room within any specific line item. I think that served us well. That gives us flexibility to optimize the business while sticking to that envelope. And we have no reason whatsoever to change that. So I think the longer we wait, the more it turns out to be a very solid corridor with regards to how we can leverage the revenue growth down to the bottom line.

另外請記得，我們一直給出那樣的公式：總費用將以營收成長的 90% 速度成長。我們也一直說，希望在任何特定費用項目內保留一些調整空間。我認為這對我們很有幫助。這讓我們在遵守該範圍的同時，仍有彈性去優化業務。而我們完全沒有理由改變這點。所以我認為，時間拉長來看，這會被證明是一個非常穩健的區間，關於我們如何把營收成長有效轉化到最終獲利。

Yes. And maybe one last point. When our AI business now is really starting to scale, I mean, think about the price levels, what we can also then achieve in the market. I mean, for 50 years, this company has sold system of works, ERP, first on-prem, then cloud. But the customers were used to a certain discount level.

是的。也許再補充最後一點。當我們的 AI 業務真正開始規模化時，想想看價格水準，以及我們在市場上也能達成什麼。這家公司 50 年來一直在賣工作系統（system of works）、ERP，先是地端部署，後來是雲端。但客戶習慣了某個折扣水準。

Now we always, in the last years, very successfully maintained very healthy price levels. You have seen this in the gross margin development of SAP. We have thought that we're going to achieve such a gross margin, by the way, five years ago. Now with AI, I mean, now we can completely reset the price level. I mean now you're going to a customer and said, hey, it's not your end user. It's not your financial accounting team who does the financial close. It's the agents doing this autonomously. -- and here is outcome-based pricing.

而在過去幾年，我們一直非常成功地維持了相當健康的價格水準。你已經在 SAP 的毛利率走勢中看到這點。順帶一提，五年前我們還不認為能達到這樣的毛利率。現在有了 AI，我們可以徹底重設價格水準。也就是說，你去找客戶時可以說：嘿，不再是你的終端使用者，也不是你的財務會計團隊在做關帳。而是代理（agents）在自主完成——而這裡是以成果為基礎的定價（outcome-based pricing）。

So there is nothing that you can relate to when you come from the system of record pricing. And that is, in my eyes, a unique chance also for SAP to do a reset and really price outcome value-based. And that is our clear task also to our salespeople to make sure, hey, don't even go to the SaaS world, don't even go to the price levels you have given. That is a new way of selling, and it's a new way of actually pricing our solutions. And for me, this is a unique chance, which, first of all, will hopefully end up in the next 12 months in an acceleration of our AI cloud revenue, but second and also in very healthy gross margins going forward.

因此，若你是從「系統紀錄（system of record）」的定價方式出發，這之間沒有任何可直接對照的基準。而在我看來，這也是 SAP 一個獨特的機會，去做一次重設，真正以成果價值為基礎來定價。這也是我們對銷售人員的明確任務：確保——嘿，甚至不要用 SaaS 世界的思維，甚至不要回到你過去給過的價格水準。這是一種新的銷售方式，也是一種新的解決方案定價方式。對我而言，這是一次獨特的機會：第一，希望在未來 12 個月帶來 AI 雲端營收的加速；第二，也將在未來帶來非常健康的毛利率。

Toby Ogg, JPMorgan.

Toby Ogg，摩根大通。

Perhaps just on the new EBIT guidance, Dominik, so EBIT slowed to 9% in Q2 for the reasons that you laid out, but you had a strong Q1. So overall H1 EBIT growth constant currency was 16%. And the guidance midpoint implies sort of mid-teens or so EBIT growth in the second half, which would imply a reacceleration relative to the Q2 EBIT growth. Can you help us understand what would drive that reacceleration from the Q2 EBIT growth rate? And then what gives you the confidence in that as we think about the second half?

也許就新的 EBIT 指引請教一下，Dominik：如你所說，第二季 EBIT 因為你提到的原因，成長放緩到 9%，但第一季表現強勁。因此整體上半年（H1）以固定匯率計的 EBIT 成長是 16%。而指引中位數意味著下半年 EBIT 成長大約在十幾個百分點左右，這代表相較於第二季的 EBIT 成長率會再加速。你能否協助我們理解，什麼因素會驅動相較第二季 EBIT 成長率的再加速？另外，當我們看下半年時，你的信心來源是什麼？

I did mention in my introductory comments that Q2 was a little bit of an abnormal situation because also from the cloud revenue growth acceleration, we had a strong contribution. We are frankly optimizing massively now on how we spend tokens by virtue of a very tight controlling. We can now, on a very granular basis, see who's using what tool and what is output driven here, and we will funnel the tokens in a way that gives us a better bang for the buck. And there are also measures on cost containment to really make sure that we focus our resources where it really matters. So -- but you nicely summarized the thinking we have in terms of H1, H2. This is exactly what we're going to do.

我在開場說明中確實提到，第二季的情況有點不尋常，因為雲端營收成長加速也帶來了強勁貢獻。坦白說，我們現在正透過非常嚴格的控管，大幅優化代幣的使用方式。我們現在可以在非常細緻的層級看到誰在使用什麼工具、以及這裡的產出是由什麼驅動，並且我們會以能帶來更高投資報酬的方式來分配代幣。同時也有一些成本控管措施，以確保我們把資源聚焦在真正重要的地方。所以——不過你很好地總結了我們對上半年、下半年的思考。這正是我們將要做的。

Michael Turrin, Wells Fargo.

Michael Turrin，富國銀行。

And I just want to ask a little bit of a different flavor on the questions around bookings and margins. So CCB growth improved this quarter. I think that's a surprise to many given the backdrop. But the margins coming in a touch, Dominik. Maybe walk us through both what drove the Q2 growth improvement.

我想用稍微不同的角度，問一些關於訂單與利潤率的問題。所以本季 CCB 成長有所改善。考量到整體背景，我想這讓很多人感到意外。但利潤率略有下滑，Dominik。也許請你帶我們了解一下，第二季成長改善是由哪些因素驅動的。

And then given that, why that doesn't flow through to operating income? Is there anything outside of M&A impacting that relationship? Are you seeing on the organic side, things are generally improving and it's all tied to just some of the dilution impacts.

然後在此情況下，為什麼這沒有反映到營業利益上？除了併購（M&A）之外，是否還有任何因素影響這種關係？在有機成長方面，你們是否看到整體正在改善，而這一切只是與一些稀釋效應相關？

Okay. So let me do it step by step. So if you look at the deceleration, so to speak, in the growth of the non-IFRS operating profit in Q1, which was extremely high, 24% versus Q2 -- and first of all, we have to understand there was a very big strong positive from lower stock-based compensation because the EUR60 roundabout share price drop in Q1 that didn't reoccur in Q2. So that is sequentially going down.

好的。那我一步一步來說。如果你看第一季非 IFRS 營業利益成長的放緩（可以這麼說），第一季非常高，是 24%，相較於第二季——首先，我們必須理解，第一季因為股價大約下跌 60 歐元，導致以股票為基礎的薪酬費用下降，帶來非常強的正面影響，而這在第二季並未再發生。因此，這個因素在序列上是往下走的。

We mentioned a heavy R&D investment that was discussed at length on this call already. We had a slower growth in cloud revenue growth. And this was predominantly driven by the comparison in the prior year, as I tried to explain. So we had basically in the prior year, an increase of 2-percentage-points in the cloud revenue growth from Q1 to Q2. And that just mathematically means that the comparables on cloud revenue growth are less favorable. So we had much harder comps in Q2. And by the way, that will, of course, flip around also in the next quarter.

我們也提到過較大幅度的研發投資，這在本次電話會議中已經被充分討論。我們的雲端營收成長也較慢。這主要是由於去年同期的比較基期所致，正如我試著解釋的。基本上，去年雲端營收成長率從第一季到第二季提高了 2 個百分點。而這在數學上就意味著，雲端營收成長的可比基期變得較不有利。所以第二季的比較基期更具挑戰。順帶一提，這當然也會在下一季反轉。

We did have some pointed marketing investment around the launch of the Autonomous Enterprise. And then there was also a minor effect, but still negative on first-time inclusion from Reltio in early May. So that is giving you basically the bridge why Q1 had a higher growth rate on non-IFRS shopping profit than Q2. And again, if you put it together, you see a mid-teens increase in operating profit for the two quarters taken together, and we are expecting something similar with all the measures I have been highlighting, we are going to take in the second half of the year. And of course, this is actually so to speak, a little bit more comfortable to achieve than top line topics because it's entirely under our control.

我們確實在「Autonomous Enterprise」推出時，進行了一些有針對性的行銷投資。另外還有一個影響不大但仍為負面的因素：5 月初首次納入 Reltio（在 5 月上旬）。因此，這基本上就是為什麼第一季非 IFRS 營業利益的成長率高於第二季的橋接說明。再者，如果把兩季合在一起看，你會看到營業利益有中十位數（mid-teens）的增幅；而我們也預期，在我一直強調的各項措施之下——我們將在下半年採取——會有類似的表現。當然，這其實可以說比營收端的議題更容易達成，因為它完全在我們的掌控之中。

We can do these things. So the CCB is the more important measure from our perspective in terms of bringing that home because that is also requiring customer to sign a contract, whereas our spend is something we have entirely under our control.

我們可以做到這些。因此，從我們的角度來看，CCB 是更重要的衡量指標，因為要把它落實下來也需要客戶簽署合約；而我們的支出則完全在我們的掌控之中。

Yes. And maybe just to close it out on the bottom line. Just last week also, we reviewed our hiring plans for the next 12 months and for 2027. And seeing the increase of the AI, seeing the increase of the productivity, now not only development with Joule Work, we're going to see it cross company. We have now 4,000 users inside SAP using Joule Work with tremendously good feedback that will now hit the market in Q3 as well.

是的。另外也許就用幾點來收尾談談獲利端。就在上週，我們也檢視了未來 12 個月以及 2027 年的招募計畫。隨著 AI 的提升、以及生產力的提升，現在不只是透過 Joule Work 的開發，我們將看到它在全公司範圍內擴展。目前 SAP 內部已有 4,000 名使用者在使用 Joule Work，回饋非常好，而它也將在第三季推向市場。

I mean we also adjusted our hiring plans. For this year, we will nowhere near hire the number of people we plan to hire at the beginning of the year. And also for next year, we see that we are balancing AI to consumption and own headcount in the right way so that we see the productivity increase to hit the 80% to 90% revenue cost revenue ratio we committed to you.

我的意思是，我們也調整了招募計畫。今年我們的實際招募人數將遠低於年初規劃要招募的人數。而且對於明年，我們也看到我們正以正確的方式在 AI 的使用（消耗）與自有人力之間取得平衡，讓生產力提升能夠推動我們達成先前向各位承諾的 80% 到 90% 營收成本／營收比率。

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.

各位女士、先生，本次電話會議到此結束，您可以掛斷電話。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。再見。