Ryanair Holdings PLC (RYAAY) 2012 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Ryanair full-year results conference call.

Today's conference is being recorded.

At this time I would like to turn the conference over to Michael O'Leary.

Please go ahead.

Okay.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

You're very welcome to the Ryanair full-year results call.

We're under a little bit of time pressure, I'm afraid, at the moment.

Howard is in air departure lounge in Heathrow; his flight was canceled, so he's on an earlier flight.

So rather than read the usual stuff, we're just going to run through a couple of themes and then open it straight up for questions and answers.

The results press release, the MD&A, and the shareholder presentation -- it's all up on the new and vastly improved Ryanair.com website, where you can get it yourselves.

So as you can see, this morning we announced a 25% increase in profits.

Very strong trading year; revenues up 20% despite the fact that oil and fuel costs increased 30%.

Ancillary revenue outpaced traffic growth, rising by 11% or EUR886 million to now 21% of total revenues.

Very good, strong performance and we think there's a number of factors underlying that -- the rising oil prices, the EU-wide recession has accelerated the range of change and consolidation of the competitive landscape.

We've seen a number of airlines close this year.

So far Malev, Spanair in Catalonia, Cimber in Denmark.

BA have already announced that bmibaby will close later in the summer if they can't sell it.

We will continue to try to respond tactically to those kind of closures and consolidations by expanding where we think there is an opportunity to do so.

We remain concerned about government regulation.

UK and Germany are increasing passenger taxes, which is undoubtedly damaging tourism and job creation in those countries.

The Spanish government recently proposed to double the already-high airport charge in Madrid and Barcelona in the budget.

There's much smaller increases at the other Spanish airports, but clearly it is a negative trend in a country where there is 30% unemployment, and particularly where tourism is a potential job creator, particularly for young people.

In Ireland, the government still hasn't -- the new government, a year later, still hasn't tackled any change or reform.

Department of Transport continues to protect the high-cost DAA monopoly, which continues to fail, with traffic declining 25% from 30 million passengers in 2007 to 22 million passengers in 2011.

We continue to call for the breakup of the three DAA airports and have continued to call on government to take up our offer to grow traffic at three government airports by 5 million passengers over the next five years.

We expect the Court of Appeal in the UK will shortly rule in our out-of-time case, in which we are seeking to prevent the OFT investigating our now six-year-old minority stake in Aer Lingus.

Expect them to rule in the coming week or so, but don't believe the ruling one way or another will be an end to the matter, because I think whoever loses -- whether us or Aer Lingus/OFT -- both will probably, whoever loses will probably -- we certainly will, but the other side will probably also appeal to the Supreme Court.

We find it impossible to reconcile the okay -- the OFT's recent announcement that the EU Commission was best placed to assess the BA's acquisition of BMI, when they apparently think that the EU wasn't best place to assess a failed takeover offer between two Irish airlines.

State Aid, the European Commission, despite talking about the need for jobs and growth in jobs continues to waste time and resources investigating our low-cost agreement at a number of regional European airports.

We expect before the end of the year that the DG Competition will try and make a finding of State Aid against some or all of these airports, which may or may not result in those airports being forced to increase their charges to Ryanair.

That will result in Ryanair cutting some flights, routes, or jobs at those airports and switching capacity to either privately owned airports or some of the bigger airports who won't be subject to these crazy guidelines which have already been rejected by the EU courts in the Charleroi case.

Obviously the key threat theme for us for the next 12 months is significantly higher oil prices.

Despite the fact that we are hedged 90% out to March FY12 at about $100 a barrel, this still means that our oil bill over the next 12 months will rise by some EUR320 million.

We do expect with slower capacity growth that the yield performance will continue to be up.

But we are concerned and cautious at the moment it won't be up sufficiently to make up another EUR320 million increase in our oil bill.

In terms of the balance sheet we remain very strongly financed.

We've over EUR3.5 billion in cash.

And despite having returned EUR1 billion to shareholders over the past four or five years by four share buybacks and a 2010 special dividend, we continue to see cash flow grow strongly as our CapEx declines.

In terms of outlook, we expect that in FY13 that traffic will grow 5% to just over 79 million passengers.

The oil bill will rise by EUR320 million.

Most of this will be skewed into the first half of the year; and as a result, we expect to report a decline in the Q1 profits because of these higher stepped-up oil prices.

We have very little, in fact no visibility into next winter.

Whereas we think there will be yield growth during the first half of the year, we have no visibility on yields in the second half of the year.

But we do expect that recession, austerity, currency concerns, and in particular lower fares and competition at new and growing bases in Hungary, Poland, Provincial UK, and Spain will make it very difficult to repeat this year's double-digit yield increase and record profit numbers.

Accordingly, we expect that any increase in fares would only partly offset the higher fuel costs; and therefore that the net profit for the coming 12 months to March 2013 will be slightly lower than the current year, in a range of between EUR400 million to EUR440 million.

Dividend and share buyback, we believe now is an opportune time to propose a second special dividend, same as the last EUR0.3357 per point -- EUR0.3357 per share, approximately EUR483 million.

That would be payable in early November 2012 if approved by our September AGM.

If paid, the second special dividend will mean that Ryanair has returned a total of EUR1.5 billion in dividends and share buybacks to shareholders over the past five years.

As I said, instead of Howard reading through the MD&A, which is available to everybody on the website, you can read it yourself.

If you don't mind, because we are pressed for time, we'll go straight now into questions and answers.

I am in London.

I have Howard on the phone from Heathrow; Neil Sorahan in Paris; and David Broderick is dialing in from Dublin.

So, Elaine, if you would go ahead and open it up to questions, please?

(Operator Instructions) Neil Glynn, Credit Suisse.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Firstly if I could ask about the -- for a bit of color on how late bookings have performed through your FY12.

Just trying to get a bit of a sense as to how instrumental they have been to the 16% fare growth through the year.

Late bookings continue to be, Neil, the key driver of yields.

The difficulty with the model is whereas we are fairly certain that we can manage the load factors and the traffic numbers and we will hit those targets, it -- very much that they -- bookings made in the last 5 to 10 days fundamentally drive the yield outturn.

Through last summer, we were seeing that the close-in yields were particularly strong, coming in routinely maybe EUR0.50 or EUR1.00 of where we expected.

At the moment they are a stable; up until the end of March they were coming in slightly ahead of where we expected.

There has been a little dip so far in the post-Easter period, which is not unusual.

What we can't say at this stage is whether that will continue through into the peak summer period or whether it will start to pick up again as we move into the peak summer period.

But at the moment, as I said, we would expect yield out to -- the yield environment to be slightly softer through the summer and into next winter.

Some of that is driven by the fact that we have allocated a significant amount of the incremental capacity this summer to new bases where we're having to really aggressively promote, price stimulate -- like Budapest, like Barcelona in the absence or to make up for the closure of Spanair.

Again, as I said, we think that will continue, which is why partially we are so modest in the yield guide outturn, our guidance.

We have had three years of double-digit yield increases; we think it will be very hard to do a fourth one.

We think on balance -- particularly if there is a difficult winter where with the intense competition we are guiding yields up 3% for the year.

It could be better than that, but that will need further aircraft or airline failures or airline consolidations.

It may happen later on this winter, but I wouldn't want to be putting them into our yield numbers at this stage.

Understood.

Just a follow-up on the yield question.

Can you give us some understanding as to how much of currency strength, i.e.

pound strength, is contained within the 3% guidance?

Very little.

Howard, you want to take that?

Yes, well, Neil, about 25% of our revenue is in sterling, so clearly obviously we've benefited from the recent strengthening of sterling.

It is not a huge percentage; probably less than 0.5% or thereabouts.

Understood.

Maybe just one final one after you, Howard.

Can you guide on CapEx expectations for FY13?

Yes, FY13 we are looking at growth of EUR400 million, following in FY14 to about EUR100 million, which is pretty much where we guided before, Neil.

We said that we are planning that it will be all debt-financing, but we are looking at a couple of options in terms of operating lease.

So I would use the EUR400 million as a max, with the likely outcome to be lower.

Great.

Thank you.

Brian Devine, NCB Stockbrokers.

Good afternoon, gentlemen.

Just in terms of -- are you actually seeing some pushback in terms of the yields in --?

I hear that you are saying visibility in winter; but in terms of further out into the summer season, are you actually seeing pushback in yields?

And in particular if you could just comment on Spain.

And just secondly if you could just comment around the non-fuel cost element for fiscal year '13, in particular airport charges; thank you.

Don't get me wrong, Brian, to correct -- [time prices] has pushed back on yields.

Remember, yield is still rising into the first two quarters.

It is rising off a significantly higher base compared to last year.

I don't see any particular pushback.

I think where we are concerned is as you get into the 5 to 10 days out, you may not be getting that same very strong late yield performance we were seeing last year.

But we did have a dip between Easter and peak summer last year as well.

I am on the -- I think at the moment we plan to be conservative.

We do have a number of markets where we have put in a huge amount of additional capacity, most notably Budapest where we have five aircraft.

And yes, Malev went bust and closed, but that's still an awful lot of capacity out of the blocks for us and at one airport.

We have a five airport aircraft base opening up in Palma de Mallorca.

We have put four extra aircraft into main Barcelona airport.

And we have the equivalent of about three aircraft going into Modlin in Poland on the 16th of July, or in Warsaw, but they're not actually based there.

So we have a lot -- last year, where we had a lot of the incremental capacity going on existing -- adding at existing bases, this year we are adding capacity at new bases.

In terms of the nonfuel cost, I think at the moment we are expecting this year that it will be flat excluding fuel, plus or minus the sector length.

At the moment, again, until the winter schedule is finalized I think we should plan sector length will be slightly down, flat to slightly down.

So we expect nonfuel cost to be flat to very slightly down in the next 12 months.

I might also mention that from this morning I have seen a few reports where I think a few people got the wrong end of the stick, where they were talking about 10% yields in Q1.

I think what we said it would be potentially mid-single-digit yields in Q1 rather than the normal double-digit.

So I don't know; there's a few reports circulating there which I was just reading on the way out.

Thanks.

And the airport charges, we said they would be broadly flat.

We don't really see any increase in airport charges.

Remember, the proposed Spanish increases -- or it's Spanish, it's an airport tax.

When you come off the -- well it'd come off the average fares, and off the yields, rather than be added as a cost.

Thanks, Brian.

Next question, please, Elaine.

Mark Manduca, Bank of America.

A quick question, Michael, in regard to yield.

Most of my questions have been answered.

But just following on from what you were saying around the Q3 update, there was certainly an implication that April was up double-digits.

So I am just wondering, in terms of Howard's guidance about this sort of mid-single-digit yield increase in Q1, what exactly has changed in both May and June specifically?

Nothing.

I think you are over-reading the Q3 guidance on April.

We expect Q1 and Q2 that there will be yield growth as Howard has said.

I think at the moment and heavily qualified by close-in bookings we think it will be mid-single digits.

And I wouldn't move any further from that.

At the time, Mark, we were talking about obviously Easter was in April, and we expected that yield performance should be good in April given that it is one of the biggest travel periods in the year.

Yes, I guess where I am coming from it just feels to me as if it's on the conservative side of conservative.

I mean you are even below easyJet here in terms of yield growth for the full year, so I am just trying to --

The difference with us is easyJet are guiding at the moment to the end of September; we are guiding out to the end of March next year.

Sure, but the comp doesn't get markedly different throughout the year, I guess.

Sure, I hear where you are coming from.

You know, I think you have -- at this point in time there has definitely been a little softness towards the Easter.

There was a little softness towards the Easter last year.

How will that be impacted as we get into the summer peak and you have things like the Olympics and the European championships and all that kind of thing?

I think if I were -- we have a history I think of being a little bit more conservative in our guidance than some of our competitors; and our competitors have a history of being a little bit more optimistic and being proven to be wrong.

So I would rather be where we are than where the competition is.

I think if you look at easyJet's guidance I think it was I think 3% to 5% out to the end of September.

We are saying broadly ahead of 3% for the half year, so it is roughly consistent.

We'll never be the same.

Thank you very much.

Tim Marshall, Redburn.

Hi there.

Just on the currency side, what costs, Howard, are in sterling?

We have about 20% of our cost basis in sterling.

Obviously mainly airport charges, airport and handling costs, and there's a few odds and sods as well that would flow through.

Staff costs, obviously we report if our staff are based in the UK.

But it is broadly just under 20%.

So what actually on the cost side going to be coming down to offset for the higher navigation charges?

The Eurocontrol, for example.

And then positing 20% in sterling and an 8% move in the average rate last year compared to the spot now, so that would be another headwind on the costs.

So what would keep the nonfuel flat?

Are we going to have (multiple speakers) ?

Well, I think you are incorrect there, Tim.

Euro charges aren't going up this year, which is obviously a big portion of the nonfuel costs.

We did talk about airport charges being broadly flat.

I don't particularly want to get into that gory [tale] because obviously we are forecasting over a year here.

But we would be reasonably confident, subject to sector length adjustment, that costs will be broadly flat.

We are having a pay increase.

Our pay freezed as well this year compared to a pay increase last year.

So I think you will just have to trust us here.

I think we are good on costs and we would expect unit cost to be flat again this year.

And I think that is deliverable.

I trust you, Michael.

Thank you.

And I you, Tim.

Thank you for that.

Bye.

Who's next, Elaine?

Gerard Moore, Merrion Capital.

Hi, good afternoon.

Two questions, please.

Just going back on the topic of yield, so if we take the comments from this morning in terms of possibly getting a double-digit yield increase in Q1, and then compare them to some of the comments this afternoon of talk about a mid-single-digit increase, will the swing factor between that be those late bookings that you talked about this afternoon?

And if those are strong could it double-digit increase, while if they are a little bit weaker we are more likely to see mid-single-digit increase in Q1?

That is the first question.

The second question is, could you envisage a scenario where yields actually fall off within the winter period?

And the third question, if you don't mind, is just in terms of fuel costs.

Did your fuel bill this year benefit from, let's say, some lower deicing costs or other costs like that?

If so, do you factor a return to normal conditions next winter?

And do you also factor -- could you just let us know what you factor in for CO2 carbon costs?

Thanks.

Okay, thanks, Gerard.

If somewhere this morning we have somehow communicated a double-digit yield in Q1, I apologize.

I don't know how we have managed to communicate that.

But I don't think there is any prospect of a double-digit yield in either Q1 or Q2.

We think it'd be mid at best; high -- or mid to high single digits.

And I would be -- so I have got a communication failure on my part if somebody has picked up double-digit.

Do I expect -- is there possibility yields could fall off in the winter?

There is always a possibility yields could fall off in the winter.

But compared to last year, last year was the first winter we grounded 80 aircraft.

We expect to ground another 80 aircraft this winter.

The yield performance last winter has been particularly good given that we grounded 80 aircraft; but that makes the comparables tougher next winter.

We are not at this point in time forecasting a yield decline; but it will certainly be -- we would expect yields to be flat at best in the second half of the year.

There could be some upside; there could be some downside.

It is just too far away at this point in time to be able to give really any accurate guidance.

Your guess is as good as ours.

Did the fuel numbers last year benefit from lower deicing?

Yes, they did, but it is not a material number.

In a EUR1.9 billion oil bill, it is not a material number.

We are budgeting for more -- to be fair, the previous year had had an exceptional deicing bill in it, because if you remember we had the snow closures at the airports through the UK and most of Ireland and Continental Europe through December and again in January.

But we have budgeted in this year's numbers for more normal deicing costs.

We are certainly not assuming a repetition of last winter's very benign weather conditions.

In CO2 costs, in the full fiscal year of 2013 we have to make the payment [2013], I think we estimate it will be costing us about EUR10 million in nonsensical EU emissions trading scheme.

But funnily enough, as the general traffic -- there's a little traffic growth in Europe at the moment; we don't expect that will rise.

And the cost of carbon has been pretty much depressed for the last 12 months.

One of the few upsides of the recession is that an awful lot of that old carbon environmental nonsense has diminished as they -- in importance.

Howard, is there anything you want to add to that?

Yes, I think that is very important, Michael, that the deicing bill is a rounding difference in our fuel bill.

And carbon credits, I think for the calendar year I think it was just over EUR10 million, and looks like it could be even lower in the following calendar year, because obviously we are on a calendarized basis.

So it may be just a little over EUR10 million for the full year.

Okay.

Thanks, Gerard.

Next question, Elaine?

Robert Pickels, Manning & Napier.

Good morning, from here I mean; good afternoon there.

I just wanted to come at the yield question from a different perspective, maybe thinking a little bit longer term.

I have been on your product and found it to be very similar to the Southwest product here in the US.

There is even a new airline that is a Ryanair copycat called Spirit Airlines.

If I look at their revenue per passenger, it's -- even Spirit, which is a newer product -- $120 per passenger.

If I adjust yours to dollars it is like $75.

So I have always felt like as your growth slows there is this opportunity to raise your revenue per passenger more than one might expect, just as you close the gap with mature products like a Southwest product.

So while I understand some of the issues that you mentioned in the short run as being impediments, it does seem that your fares are pretty low relative to some of these other products.

I am just wondering if you could comment on that and maybe what you think you can do with your revenue per passenger over a long period of time.

Thank you.

I think, Robert, over the medium term I think our revenue per passenger will rise.

I think we are very much in the same situation Southwest was in 10 or 12 years ago, where they enjoyed I think 12 out of 14 years of yield growth.

I think where we are tempered though in our caution at the moment is we have come off three years of double-digit yield increases, admittedly from a very low base.

A lot of that -- remember in our model we are load-factor-active/price-passive.

A lot of the yield growth in the last 12 months has been by virtue of the fact that the European flags have been cutting capacity, raising fares, raising fuel surcharges.

I think that will continue.

But I think there is a limit to even their ability to slap on fuel surcharges and raise short-haul fares as we move into summer 2012 and more particularly winter '12, '13, where there is an extreme nervousness, economic uncertainty in Europe, currency concerns, fiscal concerns, all of that kind of stuff.

It just feels like everybody is getting much more nervous at the moment.

And I would question whether the BAs, the Air (inaudible) -- Iberia raised the fuel surcharges again on Friday.

How much they can make that stick for a third year in a row, we are not that sure.

The upside is they are generally speaking not as well hedged as we are.

In some cases many of our competitors, like the Wizz Airs of this world, aren't hedged at all and are paying significantly higher spot prices.

But I think what you are likely to see is a significant deterioration in their -- the flag carrier earnings this year because they won't be able to pass on these kind of very significant price increases or fuel surcharge increases this year.

I do think the trend over the next -- this year into next winter into next summer will be upward.

But quite whether -- I don't see at this point in time, unless there is quite a benign set of circumstances over the remainder of the summer and into this winter, that we will get a double-digit yield increase.

I think it is going to be low single digits.

I think we are comfortable with that.

I don't think it will be any worse than that.

So if there is going to be any change, I would hope, over the summer or into next winter it will be to the upside rather than -- there won't be much change to the downside.

But remember all the time -- I keep stressing we are not price setters.

We are very much load factor and traffic active and price passive.

Yes.

How would you say your revenue per passenger relative to the Lufthansas and the BAs has trended over -- has the gap grown or shrunk?

And would you expect there would be an opportunity to shrink that gap as your product matures?

I am not sure that I would agree with the contention that our products will necessarily mature.

There is no doubt that our capacity growth has slowed down and our traffic growth has slowed down.

But remember, we have just come off the year when, with a 5% traffic growth, we have done a 19% revenue growth, which is not an indication of a mature business.

We would like to start growing again.

But I think for a year or two it is going to be fairly cautious here in Europe.

The pricing gap between us and many competitors has actually widened in the last, I would say year or two, partly because of the flags cutting capacity, short-haul capacity, and raising fuel surcharges.

There are some developments like Iberia and [someone] setting up a low-cost subsidiary; I think they will be the next one to fail in Europe doing that.

But it may put some downward pressure on pricing in the European or in the Spanish market for a short period of time, while they wait to discover that they can't do it.

Okay.

By mature I just meant that it is the -- some of the markets -- you have moved into are newer market --

I wasn't taking it as an insult or anything.

I just think like the fact is the growth is slowing down because we are deliberately slowing it down because we don't have any more aircraft orders.

Nevertheless, I would argue our business isn't mature.

There is lots more growth out there, but only when we can get a sufficiently attractive aircraft or a fleet order.

We will start growing again and growing profitably.

Thank you for your time.

Thanks.

Michael, with that, I'm going to head out, so (multiple speakers).

Okay, Howard.

Good luck to everybody, and I will talk to you tomorrow.

Thanks very much.

Okay, Elaine, keep going please.

(Operator Instructions) Eamonn Hughes, Goodbody.

Hi there, Michael.

Just a couple of questions.

Just in terms of the churn, I think you mentioned earlier on round about 5% to 10% churn potentially.

Just you mentioned maybe cut back a little bit in Madrid and Barcelona, just given the hikes there, but maybe try and get a bit of a feel for the churn potential.

You have obviously got the winter schedule getting in place; you have summer done.

So maybe could you give us a feel as to where the main areas in and out are in the coming 12 months?

Secondly, just on unit costs, you have given a bit of flavor in terms of FY13.

Maybe just some thoughts on '14.

And I'll have one other question just when you finish that.

Okay.

Let me just take the first one.

It is always useful to look at the model and say, well, work on 5% to 10% churn.

There is a chance -- I think there is an opportunity this winter the churn could be slightly higher than that because I think there will be significant capacity withdrawal from main Madrid and main Barcelona airports.

However, Madrid is only a 12-aircraft base.

Barcelona, the main Barcelona airport is about an eight or 10 aircraft base.

So these are not huge bases for us.

I think certainly this winter (technical difficulty) look at maybe sitting, taking half of the aircraft out of those bases but for the winter only, and pulling the aircraft back in for next summer.

I think we won't be the only airlines doing that.

I think the Spanish [feel] those airports will suffer very significant traffic declines.

But to give you an indication, we were also approached by some Scandinavian airports last week following the demise of Cimber Sterling.

It is the rate and the extent of those opportunities -- like at Christmas this year there was no -- we were looking at doing five routes into Budapest.

And then in the first week of February, Malev goes bust, creates a vacuum; and all of a sudden instead of doing five routes to Budapest at the end, during the summer we open up a five-aircraft base and we are operating 30 routes to Budapest.

So we continue to have a very flexible model.

We continue to respond tactically and opportunistically where opportunities arise.

But we have set ourselves a target of at least churning 5% of our routes and aircraft on an annualized basis because that is the discipline.

I think that even as we lose top-line growth we intend to continue to open up new routes and new bases, but by churning aircraft from underperforming routes and bases.

You see that at the moment where we are not -- we take the view that Rhodes and Paphos airports have not met the terms of their agreement with us, either in terms of costs or facilities, and we're having a very significant cutback in flights at those two airports in September of this year.

Again, that will enhance the churn.

In the unit costs, honestly there is no point in getting into unit costs for 2014 at this stage.

It is too far away.

I think we are fairly -- I see no reason why, excluding fuel, unit costs won't be flat in FY13; but out into '14, there's too many variables such as Eurocontrol costs, airport costs, and other things like that.

It's too far away.

Don't worry about it.

Okay, I mean forgive the next question, just in terms of FY14, whether earnings are EUR100 million out of [sight] about our forecast sight, or going to be sitting on a fairly significant net cash position potentially deal kind of, whether it happens or not in terms of the aircraft orders.

But in the absence of nothing, are we looking at similar trends in terms of special divi's?

Or you have mentioned in the past every second year.

But I just wanted, Howard, to see how you could be sitting on every second year with the cash flow that flush at that stage in FY14.

So maybe just your thoughts on that.

I mean, it is an issue for us.

Clearly if we can maintain this level of profitability, the CapEx fall, there is going to continue to be very significant cash generation.

I mean, in the last 12 months, despite having completed a share buyback of EUR125 million, we have gone from a net debt position of EUR700 million to a tiny net debt position.

We would have gone to a net cash position in 12 months if we hadn't done the share buyback.

I would be very much personally determined that there won't be a second -- another special dividend in FY14.

I think then we're in danger of getting into an annual dividend debate.

And if you are investing in the airline business for the annual dividend, you need your head examined.

I think you have to take and trust us that we will continue to be disciplined.

I would be much more keen in FY14, if we are still generating this volume of cash and we haven't done any aircraft order, that there will be -- we will do more share buybacks.

Then as we move into 2015, FY2015, again if there is no significant CapEx or aircraft order then I think we'd look at another special dividend.

So I think every second year for the moment unless there is an aircraft order or significant CapEx will be a reasonable assumption.

Okay.

Thanks, Michael.

(Operator Instructions) (multiple speakers) no questions at this time.

Okay.

We've no other questions (inaudible).

Again thank you for participating in the phone call.

As I said today the results are up on the website.

The investor call should also be -- is up on the website as well.

We are on the road with an extensive investor roadshow for the remainder of this week in the UK, Continental Europe, and in the US, and I hope we will get to meet everybody at some stage over the week.

If we don't, if you need a meeting, please ask Davy's or Morgan Stanley to set one up.

We can fit some more in.

Or if not, and you just want to talk, please feel free to call us, phone us.

You will get us through David Broderick, the Head of Investor Relations in Dublin, and we can organize either -- come visit us in Dublin or we will do a follow-up call with you when we get -- everybody gets back to the office next week.

With that said, thank you very much, everybody.

Look forward to seeing you later this week or over the coming weeks.

Elaine, thank you very much, you have been -- I think we'll sign it off now.

Thank you.

That will conclude today's conference call.

Thank you for your participation, ladies and gentlemen.