高通 (QCOM) 2009 Q4 法說會逐字稿

完整原文

使用警語:中文譯文來源為 Google 翻譯,僅供參考,實際內容請以英文原文為主

  • Operator

  • Welcome to the Qualcomm fourth quarter fiscal 2009 conference call.

  • (Operator Instructions) I would now like to turn the call over to John Gilbert, Vice President of Investor Relations.

  • Mr.

  • Gilbert, please go ahead.

  • John Gilbert - VP IR

  • Thank you and good afternoon.

  • Today's call will include prepared remarks by Dr.

  • Paul Jacobs, Steve Mollenkopf, Derek Aberle and Bill Keitel.

  • Steve Altman, Len Lauer and Don Rosenberg will join in the Question & Answer session.

  • An Internet presentation and audio broadcast accompanies this call and you can access it by viewing www.Qualcomm.com.

  • During this conference call, we'll be using non-GAAP financial measures as defined by the SEC and regulation G.

  • You can find the required reconciliations to GAAP on our website.

  • I would also direct you to our earnings release, which was filed and furnished with the SEC today and is available on our website.

  • We will have transmitted our 10-K to the SEC by close of business today and it will be available for viewing at 6 am Eastern Standard Time tomorrow morning.

  • We will also transmit to the SEC, our financial statements and related footnotes in the extensible business reporting language XTRL format, as required by the SEC by the close of business today as well.

  • We may make forward-looking statements relating to our expectations and other future events that may differ materially from Qualcomm's actual results.

  • Please review our SEC filings for a detailed presentation of each of our businesses and associated risks and other important factors that may cause actual results to differ from these forward-looking statements.

  • I would also like to remind our listeners that our New York Analyst Day is this coming Thursday, November 12.

  • The analyst meeting will be webcast for those unable to attend.

  • Now it is my pleasure to introduce Qualcomm's Chairman and CEO, Dr.

  • Paul Jacobs.

  • Dr. Paul Jacobs - Chairman & CEO

  • Thank you, John, and good afternoon everyone.

  • I'm very pleased with the performance of our business this past year.

  • Despite a challenging and uncertain global economic environment, our operating performance remained strong, driven by a continued 3G growth, execution on our Chipset business and disciplined management of operating expenses.

  • Before I comment on our business going forward, I'd like to highlight what was a very successful fiscal 2009 for Qualcomm.

  • Our revenues for fiscal 2009 were within 1% of the mid-point of the estimate we made at the outset of the year.

  • Excluding charges for the Broadcom settlement and the estimated KFTC fines, our pro forma operating income was above the high-end of our initial guidance.

  • Our focus on managing operating expenses yielded excellent results, as pro forma combined R&D and SG&A expenses were 1% lower than fiscal 2008, significantly lower than our initial estimates.

  • As of the end of fiscal 2009, our cash and marketable securities balance was approximately $17.7 billion, up from $11.2 billion at the end of fiscal 2008.

  • I'm very pleased with this performance, given the global economic conditions this past year.

  • This fiscal year, we returned nearly $1.4 billion of capital to our stock holders, including approximately $1.1 billion of cash dividends.

  • We also raised our quarterly dividends 6% and recently announced another quarterly cash dividend payable on December 23 of this year.

  • Through end of fiscal 2009, we have returned nearly $11 billion of capital to stock holders, and we have $1.7 billion remaining authorization for stock repurchases.

  • QCT continued to execute while successfully navigating through the severe inventory contractions.

  • We announced our Chipset collaboration with Nokia and the world's first multi-mode 3G LTD integrated Chipset solution for handsets.

  • We saw the first commercial Snapdragon device launched and we continue to expand our broad Chipset portfolio to address all market tiers.

  • Our MSM shipment estimates for the first fiscal quarter of fiscal 2010 represents the third consecutive quarter of more normalized demand similar to what we experienced just prior to the inventory contractions.

  • Our licensing business now has over 175 licensees and continues to foster innovation and competition that benefits the industry and consumers worldwide.

  • We continue to license and enable new companies, large and small, to contribute in the growing 3G ecosystem.

  • We now have license agreements with more than 45 Chinese companies, 16 of which, entered into licenses since January of this year.

  • I'm also pleased to report that we have entered into a 15-year extension of our license agreement with Samsung.

  • There are many positive aspects of this agreement, which Derek Aberle will cover later in this call.

  • In FlowTV, we're expanding our addressable market with new devices and the launch of our direct-to-consumer offerings, including the FlowTV Auto Entertainment System and the Flow Personal Television, which is a new dedicated device for mobile TV viewing.

  • Internationally, Flow technology has recently been officially recognized in Japan by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications as an authorized technology for multi-media broadcasting services for mobile terminals.

  • We continue to make steady progress on commercializing our Mirasol Color Display Technology.

  • We're very optimistic about this innovative technology targeted for traditional handsets, as well as new device categories such as e-readers.

  • Recently, the Wall Street Journal named Mirasol Displays a winner of one of it's 2009 Technology Innovation Awards.

  • In QWI, Tim Brazil announced that they will launch our Plaza Retail Solution and America Movil announced that it will deploy Plaza Mobile Internet and offer their Ideas Widgit Platform to over 190 million subscribers.

  • Also, announced was an agreement with Verizon Wireless to promote growth on the Blue Platform.

  • Verizon Wireless and Qualcomm will also be focused on rolling out new features, such as a recommendation engine powered by our ZION Technologies.

  • Turning to 2010, consensus economic forecast indicates that the global economic environment will continue to improve.

  • However, the improvement will likely be at a slower pace than previous recoveries.

  • While the global economic slow-down has had an impact on our estimates for calendar-year 2009 CDMA-device shipment, we continue to forecast growth for 3G in 2009, despite industry forecasts projecting a decline in the total handset market.

  • In calendar 2010, we estimate that our CDMA-device mid-point will grow approximately 20% over 2009 driven by the continued global migration to 3G, as well as lower average selling prices of 3G devices as an increasing number of manufacturers launch exciting competitive devices into this growing market.

  • We expect further consolidation and price competition in 3G Chipsets and we will continue to invest in key areas to differentiate our integrated products from those vendors offering point solutions.

  • We also anticipate a higher mix of our single-chip solutions that will further the migration to 3G in emerging markets to provide competitively priced solutions across all tiers.

  • We continue to increase our investments in integrated software, multimedia and application processors to strengthen our leadership position in higher-end feature-rich devices.

  • Wireless intelligence estimates that 3G subscribers will grow approximately 165% by 2013 to 2.4 billion and we believe our investments in highly integrated devices and our broad licensing programs position us well to capitalize on this secular market trend.

  • The 3G echo system remains vibrant with a growing number of devices, applications and networks.

  • According to the GSA and CDG, more than 80% of global operators are now offering 3G services and global 3G subscribers have now reached approximately 885 million, a 29% year-over-year growth.

  • Consumer demand remains strong for advance 3G services and CDMA is enabling strong wireless data revenue growth for operators.

  • According to Informa, the average user of a 3G subscriber is approximately 25% higher than that of a 2G subscriber.

  • In addition, 3G CDMA growth continues to extend beyond traditional handsets as demand for connected solutions for Notebooks, Smartbooks and other consumer electronics devices accelerates, such as the recent popularity of Connected e-book Readers.

  • The GSA reports that approximately 95% of WCDMA operators have now launched high-speed HSPA data services and the number of HSPA devices has grown more than 80% year-over-year.

  • In addition, there are now over 25 HSPA Plus commercial networks deployed in 19 countries and more than 25 additional operators have committed to deploy HSDA Plus in the future.

  • CDMA 2000 reached a significant milestone this year.

  • According to the CDG, the subscriber base using the CDMA 2000 family of technologies, including Wireless Local Loop, surpassed the half billion mark.

  • EBDO Revision A Network deployments continue to increase as well.

  • The CDG reports greater than 85% year-over-year growth in Revision A networks, with more than 35 additional operators currently deploying Revision A.

  • This momentum has resulted in an approximately 200% increase in the number of EBDO Rev A subscribers from this time last year.

  • I think 2009 will be remembered as the year of the Smartphone.

  • The value proposition for Smartphones continues to be validated by operators, OEMs and consumers worldwide.

  • Informa estimates that annual Smartphone shipments will exceed half a billion in 2013, representing a growth of more than 150% over the expected shipments in 2009.

  • These projected growth rates are attracting new entrants into 3G Smartphone segments, including several top Notebook PC manufacturers.

  • The Smartphone segment is also growing increasingly competitive.

  • According to ABI, 45% of Smartphones will be priced below $200 in 2014, compared to just 27% in 2009.

  • Providing a competitively priced complete Chipset system solution remains a priority and we continue to invest aggressively in in-grid solutions with support for high-level operating systems.

  • We recently established a separate wholly-owned subsidiary that will focus on optimizing open source software with Qualcomm Technology for operating systems such as Symbian, Android and Chrome.

  • These investments continue to strengthen our competitive position in the market as our integrated and optimized solutions enable our partners to get to market quickly with feature-rich devices.

  • Emerging markets continue to be a key growth driver as 3G connects the unconnected.

  • Our investments in a diverse and growing portfolio of low-cost single-chip solutions, enable OEMs to develop innovative cost-effective 3G devices for emerging markets, where it is expected that many consumers will experience the Internet for the first time on 3G device.

  • The availability of license spectrum remains an important issues as worldwide demand for mobile broadband applications and services continues to accelerate.

  • We support the FCC's efforts to increase the amount of license spectrum available for mobile broadband to meet increasing consumer demand in the United States.

  • So, in closing, Qualcomm had a very successful year, despite the challenging global economic environment.

  • I'd like to thank our employees and partners for their continued focus and execution to deliver the most innovative and highest quality products, applications and solutions to wireless consumers worldwide.

  • We see significant opportunities in 3G, next-generation wireless technologies and new nontraditional product services and markets.

  • We will continue to make the key investments in research and development required to drive future revenue and earnings growth and will provide further updates and additional details at our Analyst Day in New York on Thursday, November 12 and we look forward to seeing you there.

  • That concludes my comments.

  • I'll turn my call over to Steve Mollenkopf.

  • Stephen Mollenkopf - EVP & President, Qualcomm CDMA Technologies

  • Thank you, Paul.

  • Despite the challenges that our industry faced this year, QCT continued to execute and I'd like to review the highlights.

  • Looking at fiscal year 2009, we shipped approximately 317 million Chipsets.

  • Our fiscal fourth quarter shipments of approximately 91 million Chipsets represents an increase of 6% from our fourth quarter a year ago.

  • Overall, fiscal 2009 was marked by a challenging start, but a strong finish as handset inventories have stabilized.

  • QCT revenue for the quarter came in at $1.7 billion, a decrease of approximately 4% versus Q4 of last year.

  • Our revenue for fiscal 2009 was $6.1 billion, driven by the launch of more than 700 devices based on our solutions over the course of the year.

  • QCT's earnings before tax for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2009 was $508 million, which is a 13% increase versus the same quarter of fiscal 2008.

  • The introduction of new market-leading products during the year enabled our weighted average revenue per MSM to have only a modest decline in fiscal 2009.

  • Looking forward, competitive pricing pressures combined with increasing demand from developed markets for entry-level products, plus rising shipments of data centric devices, which result in greater than normal downward pressure on our average revenue per MSM.

  • This will continue to be somewhat mitigated by the ongoing strength of our high-end product portfolio.

  • Market traction for both CDMA 2000 and UMTS single-chip products is strong as emerging markets continue their migration from 2G to 3G.

  • More than 100 handset models based on our second generation, CDMA 2000 single-chip solutions launched in 2009 alone, while our UMTS single-chip products are powering approximately 55 commercial handset designs, launched at six carriers worldwide, with over 75 more handsets in design.

  • We continue to see strong demand for our mobile broadband products, including our EDVO Revision A and HSPA Chipsets.

  • We expect to see initial deployments of EDVO Rev B this calendar year, continuing into 2010, as operators respond to consumers' demand for richer services on their mobile devices.

  • Our broad UMTS portfolio continues to gain widespread acceptance within the industry and our fiscal 2009 UMTS Chipset shipments were up 24% year-over-year.

  • Looking forward, HSPA Plus and LTE presents an important upgrade path for operators around the world and QCT is unique in it's ability to offer multi-mode solutions for these technologies.

  • We are now sampling the MBM 82-20, which supports dual-carrier HSPA plus, and the MBM 9600, the industry's first multimode 3G LTE Chipset.

  • We remain on track to enable commercial device launches before the end of calendar year 2010.

  • As for our integrated Smartphone solutions, it remains strong as devices with high-level operating systems expand beyond the enterprise base to become increasingly mass market.

  • We are pleased with our leading position in the Smartphone segment as the vast majority of Android and Windows Smartphones available today use our Chipsets.

  • As we stated previously, we are also working closely with Nokia to bring advanced devices based on, Symbian to market, further broadening our ability to power Smartphones running any leading mobile operating system.

  • We continue to execute on our Broad Integrated Road Map for Smartphones.

  • The first device is based on our new MSM 72-27 mass market solution, are now entering the market with the introduction of Palm's Pixie Smartphone.

  • We are now sampling the MSM 7X 30 family of products, which features a processor from our Snapdragon platform and upgrades to our mid-tier Smartphone solutions.

  • Qualcomm is powering the highest performing Smartphones with the Snapdragon platform.

  • There are now four high-end Smartphones on the market with our Snapdragon Chipsets, with several more anticipated to launch before the end of the year.

  • The Snapdragon platform is also targeted at Smartbooks, a new category of devices that scale up the Smartphone experience to a larger display form factor.

  • We expect that the first Smartbooks will this announced before the end of this year, with 2010 expected to be the year that Snapdragon powered Smartbooks ramp to volume production.

  • QCT's products are diversifying into numerous markets beyond the core handset segment.

  • For example, IREX launched an e-book reader this past quarter, which leverages our embedded Gobi Module for connectivity in both the US and Europe.

  • Another example is our NGO solution, which is powering the Little Buddy Child Tracker available now at Best Buy as a customizable device providing real-time location updates via cellular and GPS.

  • QCT's product portfolio also includes complimentary technology to enable us to broaden the products we offer to our customers.

  • There are now over 40 customers using our Bluetooth solutions with nearly 100 handset models in the market with our Bluetooth chips and more than 140 more in design.

  • Our overall Bluetooth product shipments in fiscal 2009 more than doubled compared to fiscal 2008.

  • Fiscal 2009 was a challenging year, but QCT has maintained it's strong business operations and continues to execute.

  • As a result, we believe we have finished a year in an even better competitive position than where we started.

  • We've taken the opportunity to streamline our operations and reduce costs while continuing to execute and meet our customers' needs.

  • We have a strong growth path for the future and look forward to doing what we do best.

  • Thank you and I will now turn the call over to Derek Aberle.

  • Derek Aberle - EVP & President, Qualcomm Technology Licensing

  • Thank you, Steve.

  • As Paul said, we have entered into a 15-year extension and expansion of our license agreement with Samsung, one of our earliest licensees.

  • Under the terms of the agreement, we have granted Samsung a license under our patents for their subscriber units and infrastructure equipment.

  • In exchange for the license, Samsung will make non-refundable payments to us totaling $1.3 billion and will also pay us ongoing royalties for among other things, sales of it's subscriber units that implement CDMA base standards, including CDMA 2000, WCDMA and TDS CDMA, as well as OFDMA base standards, including LTE and YMAX.

  • Samsung also has agreed not to assert its patents against us for Chipsets and agreed not to assert it's patents that are essential to GSM, CDMA base and OFDMA base standards against our customers for the use of our Chipsets in their cellular products.

  • In addition, Samsung has agreed to assign ownership to us of approximately 55 patent families, comprising about 300 patents and pending applications, many of which Samsung has declared as potentially essential to WCDMA or OFDMA base standards.

  • Although there are additional items of value being provided by Samsung under the agreement, the remainder of the terms are confidential, and we will, therefore, not be able to provide any further details.

  • We believe this is a very positive agreement for both Qualcomm and for Samsung and one that provides a solid platform for the Companies to continue to expand their partnership for many years into the future.

  • Several years ago, we indicated that we had four licensees whose WCDMA subscriber unit royalty obligations needed to be extended before 2017.

  • With this Samsung extension behind us, we have now concluded 3 of the 4 extensions.

  • Further, we have now assigned royalty bearing license agreements covering single-mode OFDMA subscriber units with 9 companies, including Nokia, Samsung and another major handset OEM, which establishes the applicability and value of Qualcomm's strong patent portfolio to OFDMA base products.

  • We are pleased with the progress we have made so far in concluding important single-mode OFDMA licenses and we will continue to focus on this area of our licensing program as we move forward.

  • That concludes my comments.

  • I will now turn the call over to Bill Keitel.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • Thank you, Derek.

  • Good afternoon everyone.

  • We are pleased to report strong operating performance and execution this fiscal year despite the challenging global economic environment.

  • Revenues were $10.4 billion, within 1% of the midpoint of our original revenue guidance at the outset of fiscal 2009.

  • GAAP earnings for fiscal 2009 were $1.6 billion and included a $155 million tax benefit or $0.09 in earnings per share related to prior years and resulting from recent tax audits.

  • Consistent with prior practice, we excluded this tax benefit from our pro forma results.

  • Pro forma operating income was $3.2 billion and pro forma earnings for fiscal 2009 were $2.2 billion or $1.31 in earnings per share.

  • Our pro forma results included two unusual items.

  • First, a $783 million Broadcom litigation settlement charge or $0.45 earnings per share, including $35 million taken in the fourth fiscal quarter.

  • And secondly, a $230 million charge or $0.14 per share recorded in the fourth fiscal quarter related to an estimated fine expected to be levied by the Korea Free Trade Commission, which we intend to appeal.

  • The $35 million Broadcom litigation settlement charge in the fiscal fourth quarter resulted from the write-off of assets that were initially capitalized.

  • We recently reconsidered the accounting for these assets and concluded that the transaction is best treated as a single element for accounting purposes and recorded in a manner consistent with it's predominant benefit, which was litigation settlement.

  • If you exclude the Broadcom and Korea Free Trade Commission charges, fiscal 2009 pro forma diluted earnings per share would have been $1.89.

  • Our business continues to generate strong cash flow.

  • Operating cash flow for fiscal 2009 was $7.2 billion, including the $2.5 billion cash payment from Nokia in October of 2008.

  • Excluding this payment, operating cash flow was approximately 45% of revenue and up 31% year-over-year.

  • During the fiscal year, we returned approximately $1.4 billion of capital to our shareholders.

  • This includes cash dividends of $1.1 billion in the repurchase of 8.9 million shares for $284 million.

  • QCT shipped 317 million MSMs in fiscal 2009, including 91 million MSMs in the fiscal fourth quarter and the CDMA inventory channel, it's clearly stabilized in the last half of this last fiscal year.

  • QCT's operating margin was 23% for fiscal 2009, and 30% for the fiscal fourth quarter.

  • QTL's operating margin was 85% for fiscal 2009 and 83% for the fiscal fourth quarter.

  • We estimate that approximately 127 million CDMA devices shipped in the June quarter, driven primarily by sequential growth for CDMA 2000 in North America, as well as WCDMA growth in Europe and in emerging markets.

  • It is important to note that the terms of the Samsung license renewal addressed our third fiscal quarter of 2009 and our accounting in that quarter was consistent with the final contract.

  • We estimate the average selling price for CDMA devices was $196 for the June quarter and $200 for fiscal 2009.

  • Pro forma R&D and SG&A combined expenses declined approximately 1% in fiscal 2009, including 7% growth in R&D spending, offset by 12% reductions in SG&A expenses.

  • We are very pleased to see a $1.6 billion improvement in the value of our marketable securities portfolio during the second half of fiscal 2009, primarily as a result of appreciation in our fixed income securities.

  • We ended the fiscal year with a strong cash position of $17.7 billion, essentially no debt and $674 million in net unrealized gains on marketable securities.

  • I thought it would be helpful to provide you a summary walk of our earnings per share in fiscal 2009 fourth quarter as compared to the same quarter last year.

  • Pro forma earnings for fiscal fourth quarter 2009 were $0.48 per share, compared to $0.63 in the same quarter last year.

  • If you'll recall, the fiscal fourth quarter of 2008, including $0.15 of earnings per share related to Nokia from prior periods, and that was largely offset by approximately $0.14 of impairments on our investment portfolio.

  • The fourth quarter of fiscal 2009 includes $0.16 of expense related to the KFTC fine and the Broadcom charge.

  • If you were to exclude these, both quarters would have had pro forma diluted earnings per share in the range of $0.62 to $0.64.

  • We are reducing our estimate for calendar 2009 CDMA device shipments.

  • We now expect approximately 515 million to 530 million CDMA based devices to be shipped, including approximately 310 million WCDMA devices and 213 million CDMA 2000 devices.

  • Based on the 523 million midpoint of our estimates, worldwide CDMA handset device shipments for calendar year 2009 are now anticipated to grow approximately 9% year-over-year, whereas industry analysts are projecting a decline in the total handset market.

  • Our forecast reflects reduced expectations for worldwide WCDMA shipments, as well as CDMA 2000 in India, Japan, Korea and the rest of the world.

  • A breakdown of our calendar 2009 device forecast is available on our website.

  • It is worth noting, that although our forecast for 2009 total CDMA units has decreased, our Chipset unit forecast has held, indicating we're doing a bit better on Chipset share.

  • Turning to our forward guidance, I'll now begin with 2010.

  • We estimate calendar 2010 CDMA device shipments will increase approximately 15% to 24 % over our 2009 estimates, with shipments of approximately 600 million to 650 million units.

  • Based on the 625 million midpoint of our 2010 estimate, we anticipate shipments of approximately 231 million CDMA 2000 unit and approximately 394 million WCDMA units.

  • Based on the currently business outlook, we anticipate fiscal 2010 pro forma revenues to be in the range of approximately $10.5 billion to $11.3 billion, an increase of 1% to 9% over fiscal 2009.

  • QTL revenues will be somewhat depressed for part or all of fiscal 2010 as they were in the fourth quarter of fiscal 2009, due to two licensee disputes.

  • One licensee has continued to pay, but we are in arbitration in deferring revenue recognitions.

  • Another licensee is underpaying.

  • We're optimistic we will successfully conclude these disputes and if concluded in fiscal 2010, the associated revenue benefit is in the range of $200 million.

  • There is the potential that one or both of these disputes will not be concluded in fiscal 2010, and the associated revenue would not be recognized until fiscal 2011.

  • With respect to the QTL royalty rate, as you had calculated with the information we provide, our estimate for fiscal 2010 is in the range of our fourth fiscal quarter 2009, with upside potential when we resolve the two disputes.

  • We expect a larger than normal decline in Chipset average selling price in fiscal 2010 as we respond to 3G component suppliers trying to win sockets through aggressive pricing.

  • We anticipate increased shipments of our lower-priced data centric devices, as well as a greater mix of QSC integrated single-chip products, which enable both lower cost, entry level devices for emerging markets and affordable feature rich, mid-tier feature phones for a more developed markets.

  • We expect QCT gross margins to be largely in line with fiscal 2009, and we expect QCT operating margin to be in the range of 22% to 24% for fiscal 2010.

  • However, the operating margin will fluctuate from quarter to quarter, consistent with prior years.

  • We anticipate pro forma operating income to be in the range of approximately $4 billion to $4.5 billion, an increase of 27% to 43% over fiscal 2009.

  • Given increased stability in financial markets, we are reintroducing earnings per share guidance for fiscal 2010.

  • We anticipate pro forma earnings per share to be in the range of $2.10 to $2.30, an increase of 60% to 70% year-over-year.

  • Excluding the KFTC and Broadcom expense items in fiscal 2009, pro forma fiscal 2010 operating income is expected to be in the range of down 4% to up 8% year-over-year.

  • Earnings per share are expected to be in the range of an 11% to 22% increase year-over-year.

  • We estimate average selling prices for CDMA 2000 and WCDMA device shipments combined decreased approximately 6% in fiscal 2010 to approximately $189 as new 3G operators expand in emerging markets and 3G continues to take share from GSM.

  • We anticipate pro forma R&D and SG&A expenses combined to increase approximately 4% year-over-year, with the majority of the growth occurring in R&D.

  • We anticipate our pro forma tax rate in fiscal 2010 to be approximately 21% to 22%.

  • This does not include the potential for a Federal R&D tax credit extension by the US Congress.

  • We estimate our GAAP earnings per share will be approximately $1.56 to $1.76 for fiscal 2010.

  • This includes an estimated loss of approximately $0.19 per share attributable to QSI, approximately $0.28 per share attributable to estimated share-base compensation, as well as $0.07 per share attributable to certain tax items.

  • Turning to the first quarter of 2010, we estimate pro forma revenues to be in the range of approximately $2.55 billion to $2.75 billion, an increase of 2% to 10% year-over-year.

  • We estimate pro forma earnings per share to be in the range of approximately $0.54 to $0.58, an increase of 74%to 87% year-over-year.

  • This estimate includes shipments of approximately 89 million to 92 million MSM phone chips during the December quarter and 130 million to 135 million CDMA base devices shipped in the September quarter at an average selling price of approximately $198.

  • We believe channel inventory levels continue at the lower bands of the historical 15 to 20-week bands, as we had observed for the last couple of quarters.

  • We expect total company pro forma and R&D and SG&A expenses combined to decrease sequentially approximately 3% and we expect our fiscal fourth quarter pro forma tax rate to be similar to our estimated fiscal 2010 rate.

  • The Qualcomm Investor Relations website includes an extensive slide presentation on the many data points included in this conference call and we look forward to sharing with you additional data points regarding our fiscal 2010 guidance, including regional device shipment estimates, at our New York Analyst Meeting on November 12.

  • The Analyst Meeting will be webcast for those of you not able to attend.

  • That concludes our remarks.

  • I will now hand the call back to John Gilbert.

  • John Gilbert - VP IR

  • Thank you Bill.

  • Before we go to our Question & Answer session, I would just like to remind our participants that our goal in this call is to address as many questions as possible before we end our time.

  • I would strongly encourage you to limit your questions to one per caller.

  • Operator, we are ready for questions.

  • Operator

  • (Operator Instructions) Mike Walkley with Piper Jaffray.

  • Please go ahead with your questions.

  • Mike Walkley - Analyst

  • Thank you.

  • Let me just start with the change in your macro guidance.

  • A couple things.

  • Could you help us maybe walk through some of the regional changes, and have you seen any mix shift from WBC maybe back to GSM given some competitive pricing environment?

  • And also, as as it relates to your outlook, are you assuming that inventories stay at the same low levels in the next year or are you assuming somewhat of an inventory recovery?

  • Thank you.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • Hi, Mike.

  • Bill Keitel here.

  • On the macro CDMA device market -- so our mid-point estimate that we guided back in July was 565 million units for calendar year 2009 and our current mid-point estimate is approximately 523 million units.

  • If you break that down, you'll see it on our website, WCDMA Europe, we're estimating that to be down about 22 million from the 565 million midpoint breakdown and then CDMA Japan, Korea, Southeast Asia and the rest of the world combined to be down about 9 million.

  • In both cases, those markets relate to what we're seeing as a slower rebound than what we've seen in prior recessions.

  • If you look at WCDMA Asia, down about 7 million units midpoint to midpoint, we think that's a combination of 3G licensed (inaudible) and a bit slower ramp on 3G launches.

  • For the WCDMA rest of the world, we're estimating that midpoint down about 90 million units, we think that's more -- the primary driver there is a little slow-to-market on the number of phone models and the price points is what we're expecting previously, but we see that coming along pretty well now.

  • On the Americas, CDMA Americas, we increased our mid-point estimates there.

  • We think the primary driver behind our forecast there is just the operator's success in the consumer adoption of Smartphones.

  • And I think that about covers it.

  • I would just also add, Mike, that we've incorporated all of these lessons learned the best we can into our calendar year 2010 guidance and as you might imagine we -- our internal estimates came down from what we were previously working relative to the guidance we just gave here today.

  • In terms of the inventory, correct, we are expecting the full-calendar 2010 to be continued tight as we've seen over the last couple of quarters and as we're expecting here in the December quarter.

  • Operator

  • Our next question is from the line of Tim Luke with Buckley's Capital.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Tim Luke - Analyst

  • Thanks so much.

  • Just a clarification and a question.

  • Bill, you alluded to the ASPs moving somewhat lower in the chip arena as you face some more price competition from some fares.

  • Could you possibly give us a sense of the range of decline that you might expect?

  • Obviously, for the handset side, you gave a very clear 5.5% to 6% decline.

  • Could you give us some sense of what magnitude we might be expecting, and perhaps if you could give some color on where that is coming from?

  • Is it from new players entering the market or from established players you are under pressure and being more aggressive?

  • And then, separately, in alluding to the nonpayment by two licensees, could you give us some feel for when that period of nonpayment began on that side?

  • And just lastly, if I may clarify on the guidance, the coming quarter for the fiscal year is $0.56.

  • Just normalizing that through the year, would that drive somewhat higher than perhaps the meaning of your fiscal year guidance?

  • How should we think about the shape of the year?

  • Are you expecting a very seasonal March, for example?

  • Thank you.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • This is Bill.

  • I'll try to take some of your points here.

  • On the -- we are expecting the average selling price of Chipsets to decrease this year.

  • We haven't given a specific number to that.

  • I would just say that as you probably know, over the last several years, we probably averaged in the range of about 3% decline per year.

  • We're expecting it to be substantially higher than that in this coming year.

  • And I would also note, though -- I said it in my prepared comments, that we're expecting the gross margin in the QCT segment to largely hold with the results of fiscal 20092009.

  • So, although we're expecting a higher than normal price decline in our average selling price, the investments we've made in single-chip solutions is proving out, and, hence, we think our gross margin percentage will largely hold.

  • Your question on the two licensees, I would just say that -- I want to make clear, one of those licensees is paying and we're deferring the revenue.

  • One licensee is underpaying and that started with the fiscal fourth quarter.

  • So, we did not record those revenues -- the respective revenues for the fourth fiscal quarter.

  • For the coming quarter, yes, you're correct.

  • If you analyzed our guidance for the first fiscal quarter, you would come to a higher number for the full fiscal year of 2010.

  • We are expecting greater price declines as the year progresses relative to the first fiscal quarter.

  • Operator

  • Tal Liani from Banc of America.

  • Please go ahead with your first question.

  • Tal Liani - Analyst

  • I had two questions that are related.

  • The first one is, what's the accounting treatment of the up-front payment of Samsung, if you can provide us some details on the amortization schedule?

  • And second, if you look at the fourth quarter of last year and you look at the fourth quarter of this year, then there is substantial growth in EPS, about 29%, and that's after I take out the $0.15 last year and add back the $0.14 this year.

  • And I just don't understand, why would you guide EPS up next year only 5% or 4% in a year where everything needs to be better?

  • And maybe it's related to a decline in royalty rates related to Samsung and I'm just trying to speculate here?

  • S,o I understand the impact of lower pricing, but the question is whether there is something else which is related to other factors that you're baking in?

  • Thanks.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • Cal, it's Bill.

  • In terms of the accounting for the Samsung, we recently completed that deal.

  • So, we haven't worked through all of the accounting.

  • We haven't fully vetted a valuation on the patent portfolio we're getting.

  • So, we're still working through that.

  • I expect we'll share some detail next week in New York, but I would say, at this early stage, we think we've got it pretty well covered in our guidance here that we just shared for this year.

  • In terms of your question on trying to -- what I would say is you're trying to triangulate our fourth quarter results and our first quarter guidance relative to the full fiscal year guidance.

  • You alluded to maybe it's in the royalty rate.

  • The royalty rate, as you would calculate it, based on our disclosures for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2009 that we just reported, is approximately equal to what we expect for as our -- I would call it our baseline forecast for fiscal 2010 and there is some healthy upside to that if the two disputes we're working through will get resolved.

  • So, it really does relate more toward the overall pricing on the Chipsets number one, and number two, remember too that the Samsung renewal, you have a half-year effect of that in fiscal 2009.

  • Then, on the lump-sum, again, I would say that we're still working through the accounting of that for the Samsung and I expect we'll share more on that next week in New York.

  • Operator

  • Tim Long with BMO Capital.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Tim Long - Analyst

  • Thank you.

  • Just two related questions here.

  • Could you just talk a little bit about if your outlook has changed for some of the broadband wireless modems, downloads, embedded that type of things?

  • And related to that, since some of those companies are Asian competitors, just curious on the licensing side, how you expect to deal with -- in the GSM world, there is a very large component of gray market handsets out there that don't pay royalties and are brand infringing.

  • What do you expect to do as VIA and maybe Media Tech get into the CDMA and WCDMA worlds?

  • What do you expect to do as far as making sure that you get paid by all their customers who may not pay royalties in other technologies?

  • Thanks.

  • Stephen Mollenkopf - EVP & President, Qualcomm CDMA Technologies

  • Tim, this is Steve Mollenkopf.

  • I'll take the first part and I think Derek will take the second part.

  • With regards to the data -- the data center market, we continue to see that as being strong.

  • It tends to be a market that favors new technology and consumes technology a little bit faster than some of the other markets, so as that continues to grow strong, as you probably heard from other calls, we see a similar trend where even though the handset market in particular areas -- Europe would be a good example -- the data market tends to be growing faster than that.

  • So, we see that trend continuing as well.

  • And then with regards to the license issue, I think Derek will take that.

  • Derek Aberle - EVP & President, Qualcomm Technology Licensing

  • Yes, this is Derek.

  • So, as of today, I think we believe that we are collecting royalties on most, if not all of the CDMA volumes in China.

  • We have, in some of our ASIX agreements certain provisions that help us protect against the gray market type activity.

  • And to the extent we enter into new agreements in the future with other ASIX suppliers, we would expect to get similar provisions in those agreements and I think we've also been pretty public this year about the number of new Chinese companies that have become licensees.

  • I think, we're now up to something like 45 companies licensed and we've signed 10 to 15.

  • I don't have the number in front of me.

  • 16 just this year since January.

  • So, we are seeing a large number of companies take licenses, not just the large companies, but a number of the mid and small companies as well, and so although we're going to be very vigilant, and we have a number of strategies in place to try to guard against this gray market activity, at least as we sit here today, we feel pretty good about our position there.

  • Operator

  • Maynard Um with UBS.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Maynard Um - Analyst

  • Hi just a question on your WCDMA industry units.

  • Just a question on the unit elasticity lower handset pricing.

  • At the midpoint of your WCDMA industry guidance you're looking at an increase incrementally of $84 million year-over-year in 2010.

  • 2009 you saw $46 million and in 2008, you saw $91 million.

  • And then if I look at the market, you have more operators globally, more handsets, but ASPs coming down and other opportunities like Notebooks.

  • Are you layering in conservatism or lower replacements into the outlook because of the economy or are there other variables you're taking into account?

  • And then separately, if you could just provide an update on the European commission?

  • I think people were expecting an initial ruling by maybe October 25.

  • Thanks.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • Maynard, Bill Keitel.

  • I'll take the first part of your question.

  • In terms of the WCDMA, we are modeling in a modestly lower replacement rate for 2010 as compared to 2009.

  • We'll get into a little more detail of that in New York, but it's consistent with how we typically have been giving our guidance at the outset of the year.

  • We're typically expecting a modest decline of replacement rate and this year's guidance isn't any different .

  • In terms of beyond that, the market dynamics, we think WCDMA in developed world, has done very nicely penetrating the high and mid-tiers, and now we're starting to see some price points that we think can work us stronger into the lower-tier markets, so -- and then operator launches have been relatively strong and the upgrades have been strong.

  • So, we're fairly optimistic on WCDMA looking into 2010.

  • Don, are

  • Operator

  • One moment, please.

  • Maynard Um - Analyst

  • Can you hear me?

  • Donald Rosenberg - EVP, General Counsel & Corporate Secretary

  • Yes.

  • Yes, this is Don.

  • With respect to your question on the EU, there was no specific date that was set for any kind of ruling.

  • We have not heard yet one way or the other whether or not the EU will or will not bring a statement of objections.

  • We're still cooperating with them and obviously we'll let you know as soon as we know.

  • Operator

  • Brian Modoff with Deutsche Bank.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Mr.

  • Modoff your line is open.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Brian Modoff - Analyst

  • Can you hear me now?

  • Operator

  • Yes, sir.

  • Brian Modoff - Analyst

  • Sorry.

  • With regard to the Samsung license, if you assume they were paying the average of 4% for WCDMA, with this 15-year extension, will there be a discount for adding LTE to the list in the near term or will that apply, if there is one -- apply over time as LTE becomes more significant in terms of the volumes?

  • And then a question for you, Steve.

  • You mentioned Nokia.

  • From our checks, you have two design wins there and you're targeting their platforms across the low end 40, 60, and then MEMO.

  • Is your relationship there improving?

  • Are there more design wins that we're aware of?

  • And then, looking at your chip business overall in the next year, you've primarily garnered about 36% of the WCDMA market shipping primarily into Samsung and LG in the top five.

  • You now have design wins with all five of the top five.

  • How do you see that working into your business next year?

  • Thanks.

  • Derek Aberle - EVP & President, Qualcomm Technology Licensing

  • It's Derek.

  • Why don't I go ahead and take the first piece of that.

  • That obviously the structure of the new Samsung agreement is different than what they've had historically, given the up-front payment they had.

  • We're not today going to get into any disclosure of the level of the running royalties, but again, I think overall, we've got multiple elements of value that we think we're very happy with the overall package including the lump sum and the running royalty rate structure.

  • Brian Modoff - Analyst

  • The second part of the question?

  • Stephen Mollenkopf - EVP & President, Qualcomm CDMA Technologies

  • Yes.

  • This is Steve.

  • So with Nokia, of course, we don't comment on individual design wins,; but how -- right now, the Nokia situation is really a matter of execution and we're to continuing to make progress.

  • You probably saw in the last week or so that we announced we joined the Simbian Foundation, which is again another milestone along the way.

  • We continue to put a lot of resources in that area and still be a strong believer in that new account.

  • And I think that's also a broad account where I think we bring a number of key technologies with a high end of their portfolio, particularly as they're moving out of being more of a vertical player to being more horizontal.

  • I think that's one of our strengths.

  • You mentioned a little bit about share and WCDMA.

  • I mentioned in our remarks that we thought that our shipment -- or our Chipsets in WCDMA were growing at a rate faster than what we talked about in terms of the overall market.

  • So, I think that is an area where we feel good about our share situation.

  • So, right now, we're making a lot of investments in the Smartphone area to try to continue to grow those -- those unique assets that we have and we feel optimistic about how that's playing out.

  • Operator

  • Mark Mckechnie with Broadpoint AmTech.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Mark Mckechnie - Analyst

  • Great.

  • Thanks.

  • I appreciate it.

  • So, I wanted to ask you about -- I guess about your Chipset business.

  • You had a pretty big June quarter.

  • Business has flattened out at the 90 level here for a couple of quarters.

  • Can you talk a little bit about what's going on there and could you expect the March quarter to be up sequential with the Chinese New Year and maybe the end of some inventory burn or how should we look at that?

  • Thanks.

  • Dr. Paul Jacobs - Chairman & CEO

  • Mark, yes, I think what we saw over the last several quarters was really a big inventory correction, as you know, and I think during the June quarter, we saw, I would say, pockets of replenishment and then, as Bill mentioned, as we were looking forward, we saw a much more stable or much more static inventory curve.

  • So, I think the shipments now are probably more in alignment with the overall market, which is -- which is good.

  • In terms of March, it's a little early for us to talk about March.

  • Still a point where we're looking at the December quarter, but other than the inventory comments that we made, I really don't have much more to talk about in terms of the overall chip set market beyond December.

  • Operator

  • David Wong with Wells Fargo.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • David Wong - Analyst

  • Thank you very much.

  • Just a clarification of your answer to Cal's question.

  • The Samsung $1.3 billion, although you're not telling us quite how it's recognized, does your guidance for the next fiscal year include that, or is there anything recognized on top of your guidance?

  • Derek Aberle - EVP & President, Qualcomm Technology Licensing

  • David, we attempted to include that.

  • We'll be refining it, as I said.

  • We just concluded the Samsung agreement, and so now we're working through all the accounting, but I don't expect a significant variation in our guidance as we get to New York next week.

  • David Wong - Analyst

  • Okay.

  • Thanks very much.

  • Operator

  • Simona Jankowski with Goldman Sachs.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Simona Jankowski - Analyst

  • Hi.

  • Thank you very much.

  • Just a clarification.

  • When I look at your royalty rates for the September quarter, we get about 3.4%, which was a step-down from 3.8% in the prior quarter, and so just to understand what that step-down, is that the new Samsung terms, or is that the two licensees deferring and/or underpaying the rate?

  • And then the second question is as far as the (inaudible) licensees in dispute, can you put a real context around that in terms of how common is it for you guys to see this kind of dispute from your licensees?

  • What drove them to dispute the new license terms?

  • And then finally, how meaningful or material are they as a percent of your royalty business?

  • Derek Aberle - EVP & President, Qualcomm Technology Licensing

  • This is Derek.

  • Let me try to take the first part of that question at least.

  • As Bill pointed out in his remarks and I think one of his comments basically, the Samsung terms were effective both for Q3 and Q4 for fiscal 2009.

  • So, the Delta between the implied rate that you're calculating for Q3 and Q4 Q4 would not be attributable to the Samsung deal.

  • I think there's a number of factors in it, including this deferred revenue that Bill talked about for Q4 as well as the underpaid amount for Q4, and obviously, we always have some lumpiness quarter-to-quarter with things like infrastructure royalties and auto recoveries.

  • So, I think there's a number of factors that play there.

  • Operator

  • Kulbinder Garcha with Credit Suisse.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Kulbinder Garcha - Analyst

  • Thanks.

  • Two clarifications really.

  • The first one was, for the new Samsung rate, you're already experiencing it already for your September quarter, is that correct?

  • I wanted to be clear on that..

  • And the second question is on the QCT margin side, am I hearing right that you said that QCT margins next year dropped to 22% to 24%, and I'm just wondering what is driving that?

  • I'm just wondering what is driving that?

  • Is that the mix shift?

  • Are you investing more or what's causing the margin decline after two quarters of 13% margins in QCT?

  • Thanks.

  • William Keitel - EVP & CFO

  • Sure.

  • First to clarify on the Samsung rate.

  • So, we concluded the signing agreement just literally days ago, and -- but the agreement we accounted for it.

  • We accounted for it in an estimate of fiscal Q3 as well as our guidance for fiscal Q4 of 2009.

  • So, now that the agreement is finalized, our fiscal Q3 was accurate, no need to change.

  • So, the terms are exactly consistent with what we expected when we gave guidance for Q3 and recorded Q3 and it's right in line with what we expected for fiscal Q4.

  • So, some of the variations or differences people are looking at I can explain, it's not related to the Samsung renewal.

  • On the QCT margins, the 22% to 24% guidance was for our operating margins and the primary driver there would be the average revenue decline on the Chipset.

  • I would note that our gross margin percentage again, we expect to be largely in line with fiscal 2010 as compared to fiscal 2009.

  • It's just smaller revenue dollars because of, for example, the single-chip solutions that we're going to be seeing more -- a greater majority of our chips shipped to a single-chip solution.

  • And then, there's another modest impact to that margin in terms of that we are continuing to, as you know, we're forecasting to grow our R&D with fiscal 2010 and then that is somewhat concentrated in our chip business.

  • Operator

  • Stacy Rasgon with Sanford Bernstein.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Stacy Rasgon - Analyst

  • Hi.

  • Can you hear me?

  • Operator

  • Yes.

  • Stacy Rasgon - Analyst

  • Oh, great.

  • Sorry.

  • I had a question on device ASP.

  • So, it looks like the Chipset ASPs might be coming under a little bit of pressure, but it looks like the device ASP from this environment, both this quarter and maybe even looking forward is better than you thought originally.

  • I'm wondering, or just a little curious what is driving that, and how sustainable that might be going forward?

  • Dr. Paul Jacobs - Chairman & CEO

  • Well, the device ASP, we are forecasting a decline for 2010 relative to 2009, but it's -- it is not a large decline at that.

  • We are forecasting a little bit of foreign exchange rate benefit there.

  • It's about $6.00 of foreign exchange rate benefits that we're forecasting.

  • We think that's pretty well locked in.

  • But, yes, I think that we are seeing some -- some abatement in the rate of decline.

  • The average selling price of WCDMA still remains a premium to CMA 2000, but that -- that difference is significantly less than it was a year ago or two years ago.

  • So, there's less of a change being driven there, and CDMA 2000 is well down the learning curve and with the upgrades that are occurring on the networks and the consumer appetite for Smartphones and ever increasing better phones, there's a higher degree of technology going into these devices, too.

  • So, we're seeing the benefits of that.

  • Stacy Rasgon - Analyst

  • Got it.

  • Thank you.

  • Operator

  • Mark Sue with RBC.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • Mark Sue - Analyst

  • Thank you.

  • Maybe we can switch gears and talk about Gobi and Snapdragon again.

  • Are you finding that processor competitors can literally add basetime which has limited your attraction?

  • Any thoughts on Qualcomm's initiative to accelerate design wins for Gobi and Snapdragon and customer feedback so far would be great?

  • Thank you.

  • Stephen Mollenkopf - EVP & President, Qualcomm CDMA Technologies

  • This is Steve.

  • So on Gobi, we continue to see strong adoption for that.

  • I think the area that we're waiting to see a little bit of change in the market is actually how the data plans work.

  • So, we continue to see the OEMs take on the designs -- I think we have 50 plus Notebook models in the market today and I think we have 100 plus that are actually launching with Windows 7 either in Q4 of this year or Q1 of next year, so a strong design win traction, but I think the issue now is really of customer adoptions.

  • With regards to Snapdragon, I think it's a two-part question really is -- I think we're seeing more of a push really to integrate it than disintegrate it in terms of how we see devices unfolding primarily because of some strong price pressure and we think the only way to get there is really through integrated designs.

  • The second part of the question really refers to how well the -- how well the new device category, which we would call Smartbooks develops.

  • And that's going to depend on how well the software rolls out, and I think there are a number of (inaudible) that are being used now in Smartphones that will be pulled up in the device category, but it's a little too early to tell how the consumers will react to that.

  • We'll find out about that in 2010.

  • Operator

  • James Faucette with Pacific Crest.

  • Please go ahead with your question.

  • James Faucette - Analyst

  • Thank you very much.

  • I actually just wanted to follow up on the questions relating to Chipset.

  • You indicated you continue to see good traction and market share gains from your design wins and that's evident.

  • You were also saying that you had integrated devices.

  • At the same time, talking about increased pricing pressure in the Chipset business should be anticipated for next fiscal year.

  • Can you just talk about the dynamics on where you're seeing pressure and the nature of that pressure and kind of walk through the impact on why it impacts your ASGs for next year much more than it has in previous years?

  • Stephen Mollenkopf - EVP & President, Qualcomm CDMA Technologies

  • This is Steve Mollenkopf.

  • Really two effects.

  • One is that there's a greater mix of emerging markets or very low-end now going into our demand versus what you've seen in the past or at least the last quarter or so.

  • That's one effect.

  • The other issue is really, with the pricing pressure that's going up, more of our customers are moving toward our single-chip or our integrated single-chip solutions.

  • That enables us to react to the pricing pressure, but at the same time meet the same gross margin.

  • These are investments that we made years ago, where we were moving toward having a single-chip solutions, and as Bill referred to that a little bit in his remarks.

  • We're seeing a mix of those two things.

  • Moving forward, I think we'll see a similar effect to curb where the Smartphone market is going to go through, I think, a bit of a consolidation in terms of suppliers and the ability to react to those pricing pressures, of which, I think all of us, as we see those, your ability to have the integrated solution I think will determine whether you can do that or not.

  • So, we're investing in that today, and you're seeing the results in terms of our operating profits guidance.

  • Operator

  • And ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the allotted time for questions and answers.

  • Dr.

  • Jacobs, do you have any final comments you'd like to make?

  • Dr. Paul Jacobs - Chairman & CEO

  • Yes.

  • I think fiscal 2009 was obviously a tough year, but I think we executed extremely well in all facets of the business.

  • We really kept the innovation and product pipeline strong.

  • We built new relationships and we strengthened existing partnerships and if I look at the Samsung agreement as an example of really getting that done, and extending out into not just 3G, but into 4G as well.

  • I think it's very, very significant.

  • I'm excited about the new Snapdragon devices that we're going to see next year, and the fact we're getting them from both existing partners and new partners who are entering the business, and then I also think that it's significant that we spent this year really trying to prep ourselves from a cost standpoint for tough competition in the chip business.

  • We saw it coming out of a downturn that there would be players who were going to be quite aggressive as they tried to maintain their businesses and so we prepped ourselves for that.

  • As I look forward, I'm really excited about the amount of energy that's going into the wireless space right now, and I think Qualcomm is really the best positioned Company to provide enabling technology to as many players as possible who are getting into this mobile broadband revolution.

  • So, we look forward to talking more about that to you in New York and I hope to see you there and thanks everybody for participating today.

  • Operator

  • Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call.

  • You may now disconnect.