Prudential PLC (PUK) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Prudential plc 2025 full year results q&a audio webcast call. (Operator Instructions)

感謝各位稍候，歡迎收聽保誠（Prudential plc）2025 全年業績問答音訊網路直播電話會議。（接線員指示）

I will now hand over to Patrick Bowes. Please go ahead.

我現在把電話交給 Patrick Bowes。請開始。

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, everyone. Welcome to Prudential plc's 2025 Results Analyst and Investor Call. Before I turn over to Anil Wadhwani, our CEO; and then Ben Bulmer, our CFO, a couple of housekeeping points. A recording of today's call will be available from Tuesday next week. Our full results package is available on our website, and I'll refer you to the disclaimers and safe harbor wordings in these documents, and they also apply to this call.

各位下午好、早安、晚安。歡迎參加保誠（Prudential plc）2025 年業績分析師與投資人電話會議。在我把電話交給我們的執行長 Anil Wadhwani，接著再交給我們的財務長 Ben Bulmer 之前，先說明幾點會議事項。今天的電話會議錄音將於下週二起提供。我們的完整業績資料包已上傳至公司網站；我也請各位參閱其中的免責聲明與安全港（safe harbor）措辭，且同樣適用於本次電話會議。

Anil and Ben will start the call with opening remarks followed by a Q&A. Also on the call today are Angel Ng, Dennis Tan, Rajiv Mittal and Naveen Tahilyani.

Anil 與 Ben 將先進行開場致詞，之後進入問答環節。今天同線的還有 Angel Ng、Dennis Tan、Rajiv Mittal 與 Naveen Tahilyani。

Now let me pass over to Anil, our CEO, to start us off.

現在我把電話交給我們的執行長 Anil，為會議揭開序幕。

Thank you, Patrick. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I would like to begin by expressing my sincere thanks to our retiring Chair, Shriti Vadera. Shriti has successfully led the Board through a period of significant change for Prudential through economic and political turmoil and, of course, the challenges of the COVID period. She has been a strong supporter of the management team throughout our transformation journey.

謝謝你，Patrick。各位早安、午安、晚安，感謝今天加入我們。我想先向即將卸任的董事會主席 Shriti Vadera 致上我誠摯的感謝。在經濟與政治動盪期間，當然也包括 COVID 時期的挑戰，Shriti 成功帶領董事會度過保誠重大變革的階段。在我們的轉型旅程中，她一直是管理團隊的堅定支持者。

I'm very grateful for her leadership of the Board and her counsel to me, and I wish her all the very best in her future endeavors. I'm also delighted to welcome sir Douglas Flint, as our incoming Chair, who will take up the role at the conclusion of the AGM. Douglas has experience of financial services and strong knowledge of the markets we operate in, and I am looking forward to working closely with him.

我非常感謝她對董事會的領導，以及她給予我的建議，也祝福她未來一切順利。同時，我也很高興歡迎 Douglas Flint 爵士出任新任董事會主席，他將在股東週年大會（AGM）結束時正式就任。Douglas 具備金融服務業經驗，並對我們營運所在市場有深厚認識，我期待與他密切合作。

Turning to our 2025 full year results. I'm very pleased with the high-quality double-digit growth across our key financial metrics delivered in line with guidance and the increased returns for shareholders. This performance reflects the strength of our multi-market, multichannel business model and disciplined execution of our strategy with a continued focus on writing high-quality new business.

接著談我們 2025 全年業績。我對我們在關鍵財務指標上實現高品質的雙位數成長、符合指引並提升股東回報感到非常滿意。這項表現反映出我們多市場、多通路商業模式的優勢，以及在策略上有紀律的執行，並持續聚焦承作高品質新業務。

Both new business profit and adjusted operating profit after tax per share grew 12%, while gross OFSG and dividend per share were both up 15%. Importantly, we consistently delivered double-digit growth in new business profit in every quarter of 2025. We also successfully completed the IPO of our Indian asset management company and increased our holding in our Malaysian conventional business to 70%. We continue to demonstrate disciplined capital management and a clear focus on shareholder value, and we now expect to return over $7 billion of capital to our shareholders between 2024 and 2027.

新業務利潤與每股稅後調整後營運利潤均成長 12%，而總 OFSG 與每股股利則同為成長 15%。重要的是，我們在 2025 年每一季都持續交出新業務利潤雙位數成長。我們也成功完成印度資產管理公司的 IPO，並將馬來西亞傳統業務的持股提高至 70%。我們持續展現有紀律的資本管理與對股東價值的明確聚焦，並且目前預期在 2024 至 2027 年間向股東回饋超過 70 億美元資本。

Turning to our strategic transformation. We are now three years into our five-year plan and have delivered 18% CAGR in new business profit growth from 2022 to 2025. We continue to strengthen our capabilities and operational execution to deliver consistent and ongoing quality new business and cash generation. First, we are executing with focus across our distribution, strengthening our agency channel while sustaining strong momentum in bancassurance. Agency is our largest channel and building and growing a high-quality professional and advisory-led agency force at prudential scale requires sustained commitment and disciplined execution.

接著談我們的策略轉型。我們目前已進入五年計畫的第三年，並在 2022 至 2025 年間實現新業務利潤 18% 的年複合成長率（CAGR）。我們持續強化能力與營運執行，以交付一致且持續的高品質新業務與現金產生。第一，我們在通路端聚焦執行：在維持銀保強勁動能的同時，強化我們的代理人通路。代理人是我們最大的通路；要在保誠規模下建立並擴大高品質、專業且以諮詢為導向的代理人隊伍，需要長期投入與有紀律的執行。

Productivity measured as new business profit per active agent improved by 15% in 2022, which I am very pleased with. This has been supported by continued strengthening of our $1 million roundtable or MDRT pipeline. At the same time, we see further opportunity to increase the number of active agents, specifically in emerging markets in ASEAN through quality recruitment, segment-specific propositions and supporting agent activity through technology enablement.

以每位活躍代理人所創造的新業務利潤衡量的生產力在 2022 年提升 15%，我對此非常滿意。這得益於我們持續強化「百萬圓桌」（MDRT）人才管道。同時，我們也看到進一步提升活躍代理人數量的機會，特別是在東協（ASEAN）新興市場，透過高品質招募、分客群的產品／服務主張，以及以科技賦能支持代理人活動。

Turning to bancassurance. Prudential has a leading bancassurance franchise in Asia. The channel delivered an outstanding year with new business profit crossing $1 billion mark, representing around 95% of the lower end of its 2027 new business profit objective.

接著談銀保通路。保誠在亞洲擁有領先的銀保特許經營（franchise）。該通路在本年度表現出色，新業務利潤突破 10 億美元，約達其 2027 年新業務利潤目標區間下限的 95%。

Second, we continue to enhance the quality of new business by deepening customer engagement and improving experience across all touch points, unlocking synergies with our in-house manager Eastspring and building on our strengths in health to extend further into protection. Third, we are driving efficient growth by modernizing our technology as well as embedding analytics and AI across agency health and operations to better support our agency force and deliver simpler, better experiences for customers.

第二，我們持續透過深化客戶互動、改善所有接觸點的體驗來提升新業務品質，釋放與我們內部資產管理公司 Eastspring 的協同效益，並在健康領域的優勢基礎上，進一步延伸至保障型產品。第三，我們透過現代化科技，以及在代理人、健康與營運領域導入分析與 AI，推動高效率成長，以更好地支援代理人隊伍，並為客戶提供更簡單、更好的體驗。

And finally, we have continued to make good progress in reducing core business-related variances, supporting the quality and sustainability of our capital generation. As a result, gross OFSG increased by 15%, marking an important inflection point on the path to meeting our 2027 OFSG objective.

最後，我們在降低核心業務相關變動（variances）方面持續取得良好進展，支持我們資本產生的品質與可持續性。因此，總 OFSG 年增 15%，這是在邁向達成 2027 年 OFSG 目標路徑上的一個重要拐點。

While the macro environment remains volatile, our presence across Asia and Africa gives us access to significant structural growth opportunities. The strength and resilience of our multi-market, multichannel model allows us to deliver consistent, high-quality growth and generate sustainable shareholder returns. We will carry the momentum we set for ourselves in 2025 into 2026, and we firmly remain on track to achieve our 2027 financial objectives.

儘管宏觀環境仍然波動，我們在亞洲與非洲的布局使我們得以掌握顯著的結構性成長機會。我們多市場、多通路模式的強韌性與韌性，使我們能夠交付一致的高品質成長並創造可持續的股東回報。我們將把 2025 年為自己建立的動能延續到 2026 年，並且我們堅定地維持在達成 2027 年財務目標的正軌上。

Now I'll hand it over to Ben, our CFO, to walk through our financial highlights.

現在我把電話交給我們的財務長 Ben，帶各位回顧財務重點。

Thanks, Anil, and hello, everyone. In 2025, we delivered on our guidance, double-digit growth across our key financial KPIs, demonstrating the strength of our diversified multichannel and multi-market business model. We intend to build on this momentum as we work towards and beyond our 2027 objective year.

謝謝你，Anil，各位好。2025 年，我們達成既定指引，在關鍵財務 KPI 上實現雙位數成長，展現我們多元化、多通路與多市場商業模式的實力。在邁向並超越 2027 目標年度的過程中，我們將在此動能基礎上持續推進。

With higher NBP, further growth in our in-force and asset management results, flat central costs and the benefits of our strategic and capital actions, we increased our 2025 return on embedded value to 15%. We continue to see scope to improve this as we progress towards our 2027 financial objective, driven by further NBP growth, a return to positive operating variances and ongoing disciplined capital management.

在新業務利潤（NBP）提升、有效保單（in-force）與資產管理業績進一步成長、中央成本持平，以及策略與資本行動帶來的效益下，我們將 2025 年內含價值報酬率提升至 15%。隨著我們朝 2027 年財務目標推進，我們仍看到進一步改善空間，動能來自 NBP 的進一步成長、營運變動回到正向，以及持續有紀律的資本管理。

We also reached the inflection point in our capital generation trajectory with gross OFSG up 15% year-on-year, whilst our net OFSG is up 22%. The group's capital position remains highly robust. Our free surplus ratio ended the year at 221% or 204%, excluding the IPO net proceeds, broadly consistent with the 175% to 200% normal operating range we've set out. We were pleased that our financial strength and flexibility was recognized by S&P with its upgrade of our financial strength rating to AA.

我們的資本產生軌跡也到達拐點：總 OFSG 年增 15%，而淨 OFSG 年增 22%。集團資本狀況仍然非常穩健。年末自由盈餘比率為 221%，若排除 IPO 淨募資款則為 204%，大致符合我們所設定的 175% 至 200% 正常營運區間。我們也很高興標普（S&P）將我們的財務實力評等上調至 AA，肯定了我們的財務實力與彈性。

We updated our capital allocation framework in August last year. We gave guidance of greater than 10% dividend per share growth each year from 2025 to 2027. The 2025 dividend per share increased 15%. We also announced that shareholders will benefit from additional capital returns over and above the ordinary dividend, starting with $500 million this year and a further return of $600 million expected in 2027. This framework is intended to be enduring, and we thus intend for further additional capital returns in 2028 and beyond.

我們在去年 8 月更新了資本配置框架。我們提供的指引為：2025 至 2027 年每年每股股利成長高於 10%。2025 年每股股利成長 15%。我們也宣布，股東將可在普通股利之外受益於額外的資本回饋，先從今年 5 億美元開始，並預期於 2027 年再回饋 6 億美元。此框架旨在長期適用，因此我們也預期在 2028 年及其後仍將進一步提供額外資本回饋。

Capital above our established 175% to 200% operating range will be assessed regularly and if deemed excess return to shareholders. We plan to return all of the $1.4 billion net proceeds from the IPO process to shareholders to be split half this year, half next year. In January, we launched a $1.2 billion buyback to be completed by the end of 2026 and expect to return a further $1.3 billion in 2027.

高於我們既定175%至200%營運區間的資本將定期評估，若被視為超額，將回饋股東。我們計劃將IPO流程所得的14億美元淨收益全數回饋股東，分為今年一半、明年一半。今年1月，我們啟動了12億美元的庫藏股回購，預計於2026年底前完成，並預期在2027年再回饋額外13億美元。

So we're delivering growth in value and what we believe is a highly attractive returns proposition. We remain focused on growing quality new business with strong underlying capital generation. New business profit grew 12% and the addition to 2027 capital emergence increased by 16%. The NBP margin expanded 2 percentage points to 42%.

因此，我們正在實現價值成長，並提供我們認為極具吸引力的報酬回饋主張。我們仍專注於拓展具備強勁內生資本生成能力的高品質新業務。新業務利潤成長12%，而對2027年資本釋放的新增貢獻提升16%。新業務利潤率（NBP margin）擴大2個百分點至42%。

Further improvements in our agency performance and increasing the proportion of health and protection business continue to provide opportunities to improve margins over the medium term. The management of our in-force book continues to improve, reflecting actions taken in strengthening our health claims management.

代理人通路表現的進一步改善，以及健康與保障業務占比提升，持續為我們在中期改善利潤率提供機會。我們對既有保單組合（in-force book）的管理持續改善，反映出我們在強化健康理賠管理方面所採取的行動。

We are also benefiting from economies of scale with total costs growing more slowly than revenues. This positive leverage will allow us to continue to invest in our business on a normal course basis. We intend, as we've said, to largely complete our capability investment program in 2026 with an investment of between $300 million and $350 million, and we are very confident of returning to positive variances by 2027.

我們也受惠於規模經濟，總成本的成長速度低於收入。這種正向營運槓桿將使我們能夠在正常節奏下持續投資於業務。如同我們所說，我們計劃在2026年基本完成能力投資計畫，投資金額介於3億至3.5億美元之間，並且我們非常有信心在2027年回到正向差異（positive variances）。

In summary, we delivered improving financial performance in 2025 with double-digit growth across our key financial KPIs, consistent with our guidance. The consistency of our operating performance also improved. And while there's work to do, we were pleased to deliver double-digit NBP growth in every quarter of 2025. For 2026, we are again guiding to double-digit growth across our key financial KPIs, and we remain very confident in achieving our 2027 financial objectives.

總結而言，我們在2025年交出持續改善的財務表現，關鍵財務KPI皆達到雙位數成長，符合我們的指引。我們的營運表現一致性也有所提升。雖然仍有工作要做，但我們很高興在2025年的每一季都實現新業務利潤（NBP）雙位數成長。展望2026年，我們再次指引關鍵財務KPI將全面達成雙位數成長，並且我們仍非常有信心達成2027年的財務目標。

With that, I'll pass back to Patrick.

接下來我把時間交回給Patrick。

Thank you, Ben and Anil. I'll now hand over to our conference call operator, Jake, who will provide instructions and then open the lines for questions. Please remember to give your name and organization you represent when asking a question, and you're also welcome to submit your questions online.

謝謝你，Ben和Anil。我現在把時間交給我們的電話會議主持人Jake，他會提供操作說明，並開放提問。提問時請記得說明您的姓名與所代表的機構，您也可以在線上提交問題。

So over to you, Jake.

那就交給你了，Jake。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

Thomas Wang from Goldman Sachs.

高盛的Thomas Wang。

Thank you, It's Thomas here from Goldman Sachs. Thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. If I can kind of start with a kind of broad question on growth. There's a few kind of surprises on this set of number. I think China, definitely, I remember in the first half, our guidance was kind of high single-digit MBP growth, but we end up with something close to 30%. Very strong in second half.

謝謝，我是高盛的Thomas。謝謝給我提問的機會。我想先從一個較宏觀的成長問題開始。這組數字裡有幾個讓人意外之處。我認為中國方面，確實，我記得上半年我們的指引大概是中高個位數的MBP成長，但最後我們做到接近30%。下半年非常強勁。

I just wondering what you see in terms of outlook for 2026? Do you think that we can maintain this momentum into 2026? And secondly, maybe on Hong Kong, slightly slower growth in the second half, maybe not surprising, but I just want to get your thoughts on '26 momentum? And how do you see kind of the base effect? Is that -- how challenging that is, and how confident we are getting back kind of to a double-digit or potent mid-teen growth in Hong Kong?

我想請問你們對2026年的展望如何？你們認為這股動能能延續到2026年嗎？第二個問題可能是香港，下半年成長稍慢，這或許不意外，但我想聽聽你們對2026年動能的看法？以及你們如何看待基期效應？這會有多具挑戰性？我們對於香港回到雙位數、或強勁的中十位數成長有多大信心？

And if I can just -- sort of related to this, I think the 25% growth was mainly driven by bancassurance. Agency channel was just about 4%. I think that's probably tied to Hong Kong as well. Just wondering, can you give a little bit more color on what's kind of initiative to drive that agency growth in 2026? Thank you.

另外如果我可以再補充一點——也與此相關，我認為25%的成長主要由銀保通路帶動。代理人通路大約只有4%。我想這可能也與香港有關。想請問你們能否多分享一些在2026年推動代理人通路成長的相關舉措？謝謝。

Thanks, Thomas, for those questions. I guess there are three questions. So just bear with me because I guess it's going to be a slightly long answer as I try to address each one of them. So firstly, let me start with the broader outlook. So we clearly were pleased with the 2025 outcomes. I thought it was a landmark year for Prudential. Our new business profit grew at 12%. Importantly, it was an inflection point for OFSG that grew at 15%. And our transformation execution is getting sharper as well as clearly, our model is underpinned by multi-market and multichannel. And that gives us the confidence to take the momentum that we set for ourselves in 2025 to 2026.

謝謝你，Thomas，提出這些問題。我想這裡有三個問題。所以請稍等我一下，因為我會嘗試逐一回應，答案可能會稍微長一些。首先，先從較宏觀的展望談起。我們顯然對2025年的成果感到滿意。我認為那是保誠（Prudential）的里程碑之年。我們的新業務利潤成長12%。更重要的是，OFSG成長15%，是一個轉折點。我們的轉型執行也更到位；同時，我們的模式以多市場、多通路為基礎。這讓我們有信心把2025年建立的動能延續到2026年。

As Ben mentioned in his opening comments that we are guiding to delivering double-digit growth across our financial metrics for 2026 as well. Now specifically coming to China, clearly pleased with the 27% growth on new business profit that we delivered in Mainland China, specifically pleased with the improved trajectory and momentum that we saw in the second half of last year, where both bancassurance and importantly, agency delivered strong double-digit growth.

如Ben在開場致詞中提到，我們也指引2026年在各項財務指標上實現雙位數成長。具體談到中國，我們對中國大陸新業務利潤達到27%的成長感到非常滿意，尤其滿意於去年下半年所看到的軌跡改善與動能提升；當時銀保通路以及更重要的代理人通路都實現了強勁的雙位數成長。

At the same time, as you know Thomas, we have been working very hard to retooling our business and driving quality growth underpinned with strong risk discipline processes. And you're starting to now see the evidence of that growth come through. We were also delighted with the fact that our par mix is touched 40%. It was close to 15% in the prior year. And again, that's a step in the right direction and again, underpins as to how we are managing quality growth with strong risk discipline. I'm not going to give you a market-specific guidance. As I said, the guidance overall is double digit. And clearly, China is going to play a key part in helping us drive that double-digit performance in 2026.

同時，如你所知Thomas，我們一直非常努力地重塑業務，並在嚴謹的風險紀律流程支撐下推動高品質成長。你現在開始看到這些成長的證據逐步顯現。我們也很高興看到我們的分紅險（par）占比觸及40%。前一年約為15%。這同樣是朝正確方向邁進的一步，也再次印證我們如何在強風險紀律下管理高品質成長。我不會提供單一市場的具體指引。如我所說，整體指引是雙位數成長。而中國顯然將在2026年協助我們推動雙位數表現方面扮演關鍵角色。

Let me shift gears and talk a little bit about Hong Kong. So firstly, just stepping back, I really like the shape of our Hong Kong business. We grew both Mainland Chinese visitor segment and domestic segment. And both our channels, bancassurance and agency grew too. Our focus at all times has been quality, which was illustrated by the 2 percentage points improvement in margin. And our new business profit for full year 2025 grew by 12%.

接著我換個角度談談香港。首先，退一步看，我非常喜歡我們香港業務的結構。我們在中國內地訪港客群與本地客群兩個分部都實現成長。而我們兩個通路——銀保與代理人——也都有成長。我們始終聚焦於品質，這點可從利潤率提升2個百分點看出。我們2025年全年的新業務利潤成長12%。

Now as you pointed out, second half was a bit of an unusual period for us in Hong Kong, given the fact that we were embracing a slew of regulatory changes, specifically targeted towards the broker channel. So for example, the referral fee cap, the spreading of commission, also the changes that came through on illustration cap led to the growth coming in, in short-term products largely through the broker channel.

如你所指出，我們在香港的下半年是一段相對不尋常的期間，因為我們正面對一連串監管變更，特別是針對經紀通路。例如，轉介費上限、佣金分攤，以及示範利益（illustration）上限的變更，導致成長主要來自經紀通路的短期產品。

Now for us, the focus has been quality new business that generates cash at an accelerated pace. So let me give you a couple of proof points on that. One, 95% of our business in Hong Kong were in tenures greater than five years as opposed to an industry average of approximately 40%. We have leadership in Hong Kong on the critical illness business.

對我們而言，重點是能以更快速度產生現金的高品質新業務。我提供幾個佐證。第一，我們在香港的業務有95%的保單年期超過五年，相較之下，業界平均約為40%。我們在香港的重大疾病（critical illness）業務方面具備領導地位。

And in quarter three of last year, we established leading position on the health business. Importantly, our Hong Kong renewal premium growth was 15% year-on-year. Our primary channels continue to be agency as well as bancassurance for obvious reasons because we have a greater influence both on customer experience as well as a higher degree of influence on product mix. And importantly, our agency growth in terms of new recruitment was again greater than 5,000 with our active agent growth in Hong Kong, growing at 12% for 2025.

而在去年第三季，我們在健康業務方面建立了領先地位。重要的是，我們香港續期保費按年增長15%。基於顯而易見的原因，我們的主要渠道仍然是代理人渠道以及銀保渠道，因為我們對客戶體驗以及產品組合都有更大的影響力。同樣重要的是，我們代理人渠道在新招募方面再次增加超過5,000人，而我們香港的活躍代理人數在2025年增長12%。

We continue to see demand both across domestic as well as Mainland Chinese visitor segment, be it in legacy planning products, multicurrency products as well as health and protection. And a combination of these factors gives us the confidence that we will grow our agency as well as our Hong Kong business in 2026.

我們持續看到來自本地以及內地訪客客群的需求，無論是傳承規劃產品、多貨幣產品，還是健康與保障產品。這些因素的綜合作用，讓我們有信心在2026年推動代理人渠道以及香港業務的增長。

Now to your third question on -- specifically on agency. So clearly, we are not as pleased with the agency growth as we are with bancassurance. Remember, we are a multichannel, multi-market growth engine model. Bancassurance has done exceedingly well for us. Agency clearly came in below expectation.

接著回答你的第三個問題——特別是關於代理人渠道。很明顯，我們對代理人渠道的增長沒有像對銀保渠道那樣滿意。請記住，我們是一個多渠道、多市場的增長引擎模式。銀保渠道為我們帶來了非常出色的表現。代理人渠道顯然低於預期。

Now let me step back and just explain and give you a little bit of color in terms of what's going on in our agency channel. So if you look at our three-year growth between '22 to '25, we have delivered a growth of 18% CAGR over the last three years. This has been predicated on the back of a 19% growth in agency and a 12% growth in bancassurance. And as I said, I like the complementing nature of agency and bancassurance. There have been years where agency has performed better than bancassurance, and there have been years where bancassurance has performed better than agency.

現在我先退一步，解釋一下並補充一些背景，說明我們代理人渠道目前的情況。如果你看我們從2022年至2025年的三年增長，我們在過去三年實現了18%的複合年增長率（CAGR）。這主要建立在代理人渠道19%的增長以及銀保渠道12%的增長之上。正如我所說，我喜歡代理人渠道與銀保渠道之間的互補性。有些年份代理人渠道表現優於銀保渠道，也有些年份銀保渠道表現優於代理人渠道。

Agency transformation is our number 1 priority. And I'll have Naveen, who heads agency as well as some of our ASEAN markets give you a little bit of color. But let me preface it with a few points. So firstly, there are two specific measures that we are pressing forward on agency. First is productivity, as is measured by new business profit per active agent, and I'm very pleased with the growth that we witnessed last year. It was up 15%. It helped us offset the decline of 11% on active agents.

代理人渠道轉型是我們的第一優先事項。我會請負責代理人渠道以及部分東盟市場的Naveen，為你補充一些背景。不過在此之前，我先說幾點。首先，我們正在推進兩項針對代理人渠道的具體措施。第一是生產力，以每名活躍代理人的新業務利潤衡量；我對去年所見到的增長非常滿意。該指標上升了15%。這幫助我們抵消了活躍代理人數下降11%的影響。

Our active agents was largely impacted by the emerging ASEAN markets of Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia. And if you go under the hood and look at what the driver of that was, it was largely the new recruitment in these four markets. I'm going to stop there, and I'm going to have Naveen articulate as to what are we doing about it specifically and illustrate that with a specific example in terms of how we are implementing some of the steps to change the momentum on agency.

我們的活躍代理人數主要受到越南、菲律賓、馬來西亞及印尼等新興東盟市場的影響。如果深入分析其驅動因素，主要是這四個市場的新招募情況。我先說到這裡，接下來我會請Naveen具體說明我們正在採取哪些措施，並以一個具體例子說明我們如何落實一些步驟，以扭轉代理人渠道的動能。

Naveen?

Naveen？

Thank you, Anil. So first and foremost, over the last few months, as I've had a chance to spend time with our top agents and leaders on the ground, I'm very convinced that we have some very high-quality top-notch professionals working with us and our agency quality is right up there in these markets. Second, when I look at the different initiatives in our agency strategy, I'm fully aligned, and I think we cover all the bases in terms of both the aspects that Anil mentioned, improving the top-tier productivity as well as looking to enhance the activation and recruitment.

謝謝你，Anil。首先也是最重要的，在過去幾個月裡，我有機會與我們在當地的一些頂尖代理人與領導者相處交流，我非常確信我們擁有一批高品質、非常專業的菁英與我們合作，而我們在這些市場的代理人隊伍品質也名列前茅。第二，當我檢視我們代理人策略中的各項不同舉措時，我完全一致認同；我認為我們在Anil提到的兩個面向都已涵蓋到位：提升頂尖層級的生產力，以及強化啟動與招募。

Now the top-tier productivity initiative is already working well. Anil already shared the data points over there. As far as enhancing activation through quality recruitment, we are focused on creating professional recruitment schemes, which work on the right capability building for the leaders as well as agents, supporting them with the right technology and the right propositions. One such example is PRUVentures in Malaysia, where this scheme has scaled up in the second half of last year. And for all of last year, this scheme accounted for about a quarter of our incoming class of recruits in Malaysia.

目前，提升頂尖層級生產力的舉措已經運作良好。Anil剛才已分享相關數據。至於透過高品質招募來強化啟動，我們聚焦於建立專業化招募方案，針對領導者與代理人進行正確的能力建構，並以合適的科技與合適的產品／方案主張來支援他們。其中一個例子是馬來西亞的PRUVentures，該方案在去年下半年已擴大規模。而在去年全年，這個方案約占我們馬來西亞新進招募班級的四分之一。

And what is very interesting to see and very encouraging to see is the fact that the retention as well as the productivity of this incoming class through PRUVentures is significantly higher than those coming through other schemes. So for example, particularly on productivity, the productivity of these agents is 6 times that of the non-PRUVenture recruits.

非常有意思且令人鼓舞的是，透過PRUVentures加入的這批新進人員，其留任率以及生產力都顯著高於透過其他方案加入的人員。例如，特別就生產力而言，這些代理人的生產力是非PRUVenture招募人員的6倍。

So our focus right now is to take such professional recruitment schemes with discipline to other markets and make sure we can use that to scale up our recruitment as well as our activation. So that's what we are doing. Anil, back to you with that.

因此，我們目前的重點是以紀律性把這類專業化招募方案推廣到其他市場，並確保我們能藉此擴大招募規模以及提升啟動成效。這就是我們正在做的事情。Anil，交回給你。

Thanks, Naveen. So just in closing, Thomas, building and scaling our high-quality professional agency force in Asia and that also of a size of Prudential does require consistent commitment and focus on execution. And we are absolutely confident and focused on driving the transformation on agency.

謝謝你，Naveen。最後作個總結，Thomas，在亞洲建立並擴大我們高品質、專業的代理人隊伍——而且是以保誠這樣的規模——確實需要持續的承諾以及對執行的專注。我們對推動代理人渠道轉型絕對有信心，並且高度聚焦。

Thank you. Okay, next question, Joe.

謝謝。好的，下一個問題，Joe。

Farooq Hanif, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的Farooq Hanif。

Hi there, thanks very much. Just on the point of agency, can you just explain why you don't just use PRUVentures entirely for recruitment? And then can you also talk about the technology arms race in terms of the digital tools you're giving your agents? My sense was that -- and I might be wrong, but you were kind of behind, you've come along, you've invested. Do you feel like you're in line or better than your top competitors when it comes to that kind of technology?

你好，非常感謝。就代理人渠道這點，你能否解釋一下為什麼不乾脆完全使用PRUVentures來進行招募？另外，你也能談談你們提供給代理人的數位工具，在科技軍備競賽方面的情況嗎？我的感覺是——也可能我錯了——你們之前有點落後，但後來追上並投入了資源。在這類科技方面，你覺得你們現在與主要競爭對手相比是持平，還是更好？

Second question is understanding kind of the remittances. So the capital position of your subs seems strong. You've remitted quite a lot of capital. Can you just talk about why you've remitted so much capital to the holding given your previous comments that you prefer to keep this as much capital in the subs to earn a higher return? And what's the outlook here? And how will that impact your investment margin going forward?

第二個問題是想了解匯回款項（remittances）。你們子公司的資本狀況看起來很強。你們也匯回了相當多的資本。鑑於你們先前提到偏好把更多資本留在子公司以賺取更高回報，你能否談談為什麼仍匯回這麼多資本到控股公司？未來展望如何？這將如何影響你們未來的投資利差（investment margin）？

And my last question is will underlying variances, so that's obviously excluding the capability investment. Will they reach an inflection point in 2026? I mean they may turn positive or slightly positive, but what can we model in for that? And how does that differ between sort of free surplus and IFRS? Thank you.

最後一個問題是關於基礎差異（underlying variances），也就是明顯排除能力投資（capability investment）之後的部分。它們會在2026年到達拐點嗎？我的意思是，它們可能轉為正值或略為正值，但我們在模型中應該如何假設？另外，這在自由盈餘（free surplus）與IFRS之間有何不同？謝謝。

Thanks, Farooq, and thanks for this question. So let me first take the PRUVenture one, and I'll again have Naveen provide you some greater insights and greater color. And then I will go to Ben on the remittances and the variances question.

謝謝你，Farooq，也謝謝你的提問。我先回答PRUVenture這個問題，我會再請Naveen提供更多洞見與補充背景。接著我會請Ben回答匯回款項以及差異（variances）這兩個問題。

So firstly, we have seen great success on PRUVenture, for example, in a market like Hong Kong. And the success is what really drove us to now rolling that out in some of the other markets. And again, Naveen has illustrated in terms of the early impact of that witnessed in Malaysia. And our ambition now is to kind of roll that out at a brisk pace across the different markets of ASEAN. But I'm going to stop there and ask Naveen to provide you a greater color both on the extension of PRUVenture as well as the technology enablement.

首先，我們已經在 PRUVenture 上看到非常大的成功，例如在香港這樣的市場。而正是這項成功真正推動我們現在把它推廣到其他一些市場。同樣地，Naveen 也已就其在馬來西亞所見到的早期影響作了說明。我們目前的企圖心，是以相當快的速度在東協各個不同市場推進落地。不過我先說到這裡，請 Naveen 進一步為各位補充更多細節，包含 PRUVenture 的延伸推廣以及科技賦能。

Okay. So thanks, Anil, and Farooq, thanks for the question. So PRUVentures, as I said, is a scheme which is about encouraging professional recruitment, both at the leader level as well as at the agent level. To build on the example that Anil already shared of Hong Kong, where this scheme has kind of scaled up over the last year, the increase in number of PRUVenture recruits was 43% and two-fifth of the incoming class was actually from PRUVentures.

好的。謝謝你，Anil，也謝謝 Farooq 的提問。如我所說，PRUVentures 是一項旨在鼓勵專業招募的計畫，涵蓋領導層級以及業務員層級。延續 Anil 先前分享的香港例子，這個計畫在過去一年已經擴大規模，PRUVenture 招募人數增加了 43%，而新進梯隊中有五分之二實際上來自 PRUVentures。

So Hong Kong is an example of a market where we have successfully scaled up PRUVentures. And of course, we'll continue with these efforts in this particular market. I already illustrated Malaysia, which scaled up in the second half of last year, and we will have the impact of PRUVentures through all of this year in Malaysia.

因此，香港是一個我們成功把 PRUVentures 擴大規模的市場例子。當然，我們會在這個市場持續推進這些工作。我也已經說明過馬來西亞在去年下半年擴大規模，而今年在馬來西亞將會全年反映 PRUVentures 的影響。

And exactly, as you mentioned, our effort right now is with some customization to take this scheme to the other emerging markets of ASEAN, particularly Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam, where, as Anil said, we've been kind of looking to improve our recruitment and hence, our activation. Now each one of these markets requires a little bit of customization, a little bit of change to the scheme, and we have kind of -- we have done that, and we are looking to implement that with discipline as we move forward. So that's on PRUVentures and professional recruitment.

而正如你所提到的，我們目前的努力方向，是在做一些客製化之後，把這個計畫推廣到東協其他新興市場，特別是印尼、菲律賓、越南；如 Anil 所說，我們一直希望改善招募，進而提升啟動率。現在每一個市場都需要一些客製化、對計畫做些調整；我們已經完成這些工作，並且在往前推進時，會以嚴謹的方式落實執行。以上是關於 PRUVentures 與專業招募。

On technology, we think of technology and agency in two loops. One loop is how do we improve the agent productivity as they think about interaction with their customers. So this is about lead management, prospecting, sales, service and claims management. And the second one is what -- how does an agent and a leader improve their own productivity in terms of realizing what their compensation is, what their action should be, and how do they think about improving their income. Those are the two loops in which we think about technology and agency.

在科技方面，我們把科技與業務通路（agency）分成兩個循環來看。第一個循環是：當業務員與客戶互動時，如何提升業務員生產力。這涵蓋名單／線索管理、開發潛在客戶、銷售、服務以及理賠管理。第二個循環是：業務員與主管如何提升自身生產力，例如了解自己的酬金是多少、應該採取哪些行動，以及如何思考提升收入。這就是我們看待科技與業務通路的兩個循環。

My assessment of where we are in today in terms of that technology capability, we are right up there with the best in the market. So we have a proprietary platform called PRUForce. You may have heard of this name before, which is now rolled out to all the markets, and we are looking to continuously enhance the capabilities in PRUForce. But as of today, we are pretty good right up there on both of these aspects. What we are doing now is actually injecting a healthy dose of AI into this in a very practical targeted manner on both of these value loops, the customer value loop as well as the agent and the leader value loop.

就目前我們在這些科技能力上的位置而言，我的評估是：我們已經與市場上最好的水準並駕齊驅。我們有一個自有平台叫做 PRUForce。你們可能以前聽過這個名稱；它現在已經在所有市場上線，我們也會持續強化 PRUForce 的功能。但截至目前，在這兩個面向上我們都做得相當不錯。我們現在正在做的是，以非常務實且有針對性的方式，為這兩個價值循環——客戶價值循環，以及業務員與主管價值循環——注入相當程度的 AI。

An example of that, which I want to share is PRUAction, which was pioneered in Singapore last year. And this was an AI-enabled performance management system for our agents and leaders to improve their productivity. As we went through this, we saw an increase in productivity of about 15%, which is quite strong. And we are now looking to take PRUAction to all the markets that we have as far as agency is concerned. So that's where the technology focus is, and we'll continue to get better and improve as we move forward.

我想分享的一個例子是 PRUAction，這是在去年於新加坡率先推出的。這是一套 AI 賦能的績效管理系統，協助我們的業務員與主管提升生產力。在推行過程中，我們看到生產力提升約 15%，這是相當強勁的表現。而我們現在希望把 PRUAction 推廣到所有有業務通路的市場。這就是科技聚焦的方向；我們也會在往前推進時持續精進與改善。

Thanks, Naveen. Now moving to Ben for the next two questions on remittances and the variances.

謝謝你，Naveen。接下來請 Ben 回答關於匯回（remittances）以及差異（variances）的兩個問題。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Farooq. So on remittances, look, I continue to guide you to the 70% ratio in terms of the remittance rate for LBU net surplus generation. You're right, I elected to bring up some stock this year from the Hong Kong business.

是的。謝謝你，Anil。嗨，Farooq。關於匯回，我仍然引導你們參考 LBU 淨盈餘產生（net surplus generation）的匯回率約 70% 這個比例。你說得對，今年我選擇把香港業務的一部分存量資本上調到集團。

I do like having a balance of surplus in both centrally and in the businesses. I said that before, we like to have agility locally. We have stakeholders to manage. That said, I'm not going to leave excess capital in businesses. I will bring that up to center.

我確實喜歡在集團層面與各業務單位之間，維持盈餘的平衡配置。我之前也說過，我們希望在當地保有靈活性。我們也有利害關係人需要管理。但話說回來，我不會把過多資本留在各業務單位。我會把它上調到集團中心。

You're right, it did have a temporal impact on the net investment return in the IFRS result, along with the effects of some China derisking that we did. And similarly, when you think about earnings, we have a lower sort of central net investment return number as a result of completing that $2 billion buyback from stock. In terms of the underlying variances, I'm pleased with the progress we're making. I think they materially improved year-on-year.

你說得對，這確實對 IFRS 業績中的淨投資報酬率造成了短期性的影響，同時也受到我們所做的一些中國去風險（derisking）措施影響。同樣地，當你看盈餘時，由於我們完成了以存量資本進行的 20 億美元回購，因此集團中心的淨投資報酬率數字會相對較低。至於基礎差異（underlying variances），我對我們正在取得的進展感到滿意。我認為它們相較去年有實質改善。

And now really, if you remove the investment in capabilities, fairly close to being neutral. I'm very confident that we're going to return to those historic pre-COVID norms of positive operating variances within our objective period. And of course, we're a bigger business now than we were. We're very much focused on continuing to drive underwriting profitability. I think you've seen evidence of that and investing in our capabilities to drive growth and scale. So ultimately, this is about operating leverage.

而且現在如果把能力投資（investment in capabilities）扣除，其實已經相當接近中性。我非常有信心，在我們的目標期間內，我們會回到 COVID 之前歷史常態的「正向營運差異」（positive operating variances）。當然，我們現在的業務規模也比以前更大。我們非常專注於持續推動核保獲利能力。我想你們已經看到相關證據，同時我們也投資能力以推動成長與規模化。所以歸根結底，這關乎營運槓桿（operating leverage）。

And I'm pleased to see renewal premiums up double digit once again last year. We will continue to focus on cost containment to also improve that operating leverage, and that gives us the headroom to then continue to reinvest in the business on a business-as-usual basis going forward. I think you asked about differences between IFRS and TEV. There are some differences in geography, of course, between sort of VFA and GMM. The key thing to bear in mind there is that about two-third of our investment in capabilities are sat in the CSM unlocking number as opposed to that variance line. So yes, very confident we're going to continue to drive very strong variance performance.

我也很高興看到去年續期保費（renewal premiums）再次呈現雙位數成長。我們會持續聚焦成本控管，以進一步提升營運槓桿，並因此取得空間，讓我們未來能在日常營運（business-as-usual）的基礎上持續再投資於業務。我想你也問到 IFRS 與 TEV 之間的差異。當然，在地理分布上，VFA 與 GMM 之間會有一些差異。需要記住的關鍵是：我們在能力上的投資約有三分之二是反映在 CSM 解鎖（CSM unlocking）的數字中，而不是在那條差異（variance）線上。所以，是的，我非常有信心我們會持續推動非常強勁的差異表現。

Thank you Ben. Okay, next question please, Jake.

謝謝你，Ben。好的，下一題，Jake。

Michael Chang. CGI.

Michael Chang。CGI。

Hi, thanks a lot. It's Michael Cheng here. Can I just check you can hear me?

嗨，謝謝。我是 Michael Cheng。我可以確認一下你們聽得到我說話嗎？

We can hear you, Michael, loud and clear.

我們聽得到你，Michael，很清楚。

Alright. Okay, thanks. Yes, I really like the results, especially in relation to the Mainland China business. I think it's very impressive what the business has done, especially on the bancassurance front. So can I just get some more clarity? I understand that Citi has been a great partner as well as SEB. I think they contribute, if I'm not wrong, two-third of the APE. It seems that a lot of investors within the China space right now for the insurers, they are quite focused on this wave of maturing time deposits, which the bancassurance is best placed to capture.

好的。好，謝謝。是的，我非常喜歡這次的業績，特別是與中國大陸業務相關的部分。我認為公司所做到的非常令人印象深刻，尤其是在銀保（bancassurance）方面。所以我想再釐清一些細節。我理解 Citi 以及 SEB 也是很好的合作夥伴。如果我沒記錯的話，它們貢獻了約三分之二的 APE。目前在中國保險股的投資人之間，大家相當關注這一波到期的定期存款，而銀保通路最有條件去承接這些資金。

So could I maybe get some color on any initiatives you have in terms of further deepening the relationship with CITIC in terms of maybe more branches as well as with Standard Chartered, coupled with any new initiatives in terms of new bancassurance partners? So that's the first one.

所以我是否可以請您多談一些，關於您在進一步深化與中信（CITIC）的合作關係方面有哪些舉措，例如增加更多分行，以及與渣打（Standard Chartered）的合作；同時，是否也有任何與新的銀保合作夥伴相關的新計畫？這是第一個問題。

And I think the second one is primarily in relation to the Asia market, I think one of the key structural themes post the pandemic -- well, sorry, even more so post the pandemic has been the very strong demand for wealth management solutions. In the case of the insurers, there are some of your peers who are making the point that maybe third-party channels is a good way to tap this opportunity.

我想第二個問題主要是關於亞洲市場。我認為疫情之後的一個關鍵結構性主題——嗯，抱歉，甚至可以說在疫情之後更為明顯——就是對財富管理解決方案的需求非常強勁。就保險公司而言，你們的一些同業正在提出，也許第三方通路是掌握這個機會的一個好方法。

Now I know that Prudential is extremely strong in the agent channel and the bancassurance channel. So maybe you can just shed your light -- shed some light on your thoughts about using third-party channels to tap this wealth management opportunity, and why have you chosen to actually be relatively underweight versus your peers on this front? Thanks a lot.

我知道保誠（Prudential）在代理人通路與銀保通路都非常強。所以也許您可以談談——說明一下您對於運用第三方通路來把握這個財富管理機會的看法，以及為什麼相較同業，你們在這方面的比重實際上選擇得相對偏低？非常感謝。

Thanks, Michael. So let me start with China, and I'll go to Angel, who can probably give you a little bit more color on how we are thinking about the China growth and specifically to your point on deposits and the deposits maturity because you're right in pointing out that the China or the Chinese economy continues to be a very high savings economy, which, in many ways, given the low interest rate environment speaks to some of the solutions that we can bring to our customers.

謝謝你，Michael。我先從中國談起，接著我會請 Angel 補充更多細節，說明我們如何看待中國的成長，特別是你提到的存款以及存款到期（maturity）問題。你指出得沒錯，中國或中國經濟仍然是一個高儲蓄的經濟體，而在低利率環境下，這在很多方面也呼應了我們可以為客戶帶來的一些解決方案。

But I do want to start by saying that clearly, bancassurance has been a key driver of growth for us in China. And it's heartening to see that we are now seeing a significant traction from CITIC Bank, and this is on account of the focus that Angel has brought in terms of ensuring that there is a segment of branches that are exclusively dedicated to selling CITIC Prudential life insurance policies. And that has made a dramatic difference in terms of CITIC's contribution to the overall bancassurance sales and the overall sales in China Mainland as compared to some of the previous years.

但我確實想先說明，銀保在中國一直是我們成長的關鍵驅動力。令人振奮的是，我們現在看到中信銀行帶來了顯著的動能，這要歸功於 Angel 所推動的重點：確保有一部分分行是專門投入銷售中信保誠人壽保單。與過去幾年相比，這在中信對整體銀保銷售以及中國大陸整體銷售的貢獻度方面，帶來了戲劇性的改變。

I think interesting to note, our margins on bancassurance are pretty healthy in China. And that again underscores the point that I made earlier to Thomas' question that, that is underpinned by the focus on quality, and how we would like to grow our new business profit in China. But I'm going to stop there and turn to Angel to specifically answer your time deposit question.

值得注意的是，我們在中國的銀保利潤率相當健康。這也再次印證我先前回應 Thomas 問題時所提到的觀點：這是由對品質的重視所支撐，以及我們希望如何在中國提升新業務利潤的成長。我先說到這裡，接著交給 Angel 具體回答你關於定期存款到期的問題。

Thank you, Anil, and thank you for the questions, Michael. You are correct that Standard Chartered and CITIC both are our strategic bank partner, which are also delivering very good growth rate in 2025. Especially on your questions on CITIC Bank, we've launched the preferred branch model last year. with the first 50 branches basically is to aim for increasing our wallet share in those branches by giving them dedicated resources like insurance specialists to help the relationship managers to sell the products better. So that yields very good results.

謝謝你，Anil，也謝謝你的提問，Michael。你說得沒錯，渣打與中信都是我們的策略性銀行合作夥伴，而且在 2025 年也都帶來非常好的成長率。特別針對你關於中信銀行的問題，我們去年推出了「優選分行」模式。第一批 50 家分行的目標，基本上是透過提供專屬資源（例如保險專家）來協助客戶關係經理更好地銷售產品，從而提升我們在這些分行的錢包占比（wallet share）。因此取得了非常好的成果。

And into 2026, we are aiming to increase the number from 50 to 100. So basically doubling the number of preferred branch under this model. The other one that we are working on is to increase and diversify our partnership in the bancassurance channel. We are going to focus to work on the top 10 partners in the bancassurance channel so that we can also repeat what we have turned out in the CITIC preferred branch model business.

展望 2026 年，我們的目標是把數量從 50 家增加到 100 家。也就是在此模式下，將優選分行的數量加倍。我們正在推進的另一項工作，是在銀保通路中擴大並多元化我們的合作夥伴關係。我們將聚焦於銀保通路的前十大合作夥伴，以便也能複製我們在中信優選分行模式業務中所取得的成果。

The last point that I want to talk about is your point on deposit maturity. We are working very closely with all of our bank partners to capture these opportunities. Especially, we are going into a deeper collaboration with the private bank segments of our bank partners with greater engagement with the high net worth customer, which will increase our average ticket size. So I think these will give us a very solid plan going into 2026 to deliver our business target. Getting back to you, Anil.

最後一點我想談的是你提到的存款到期。我們正與所有銀行合作夥伴非常緊密地合作，以掌握這些機會。特別是，我們將與銀行合作夥伴的私人銀行（private bank）客群展開更深度的合作，並更積極地觸達高淨值客戶，這將提升我們的平均客單價（average ticket size）。因此我認為，這些將使我們在邁入 2026 年時具備非常扎實的計畫，以達成我們的業務目標。交回給你，Anil。

Thanks, Angel. So Michael, going on to your next question on wealth management brokers and are we planning to do more there? The short answer is yes. While our primary channels continue to be agency and bancassurance for reasons that I articulated earlier, absolutely we are engaged on a very active basis, with some of the quality brokers and ensuring that, we are getting a higher share of business from them.

謝謝你，Angel。Michael，接著談你下一個問題：關於財富管理經紀商（wealth management brokers），以及我們是否計畫在那方面做更多。簡短答案是：是的。雖然我們的主要通路仍然是代理人與銀保，原因我先前已說明，但我們確實正以非常積極的方式與一些優質經紀商合作，並確保我們能從他們那裡取得更高的業務占比。

On the wealth management space specifically, you can expect more activity from us both in markets of Singapore and Hong Kong, which is where we are seeing the greater kind of attraction for wealth management offering. But you will see more innovative solutions coming from us in that space. Mind you, one of our key differentiators, and I want to bring this point back is the complementing nature of bancassurance to agency. Bancassurance has done well because it continues to attract a certain level of flows from emerging affluent customers as well as high net worth customers. And that continues to be a great source for us to engage customers through our preferred or strategic bank relationship partners. Some of them, as Angel mentioned, are not only limited to China, but to the broader Asia and Africa landscape.

就財富管理領域而言，你可以預期我們在新加坡與香港市場會有更多動作，因為我們看到這些市場對財富管理方案的吸引力更大。你也會看到我們在該領域推出更多創新解決方案。請注意，我們的一個關鍵差異化優勢——我想把這點再拉回來強調——是銀保對代理人通路的互補性。銀保表現良好，是因為它持續吸引來自新興富裕客群以及高淨值客群的一定資金流入（flows）。而這也持續成為我們透過優選或策略性銀行合作夥伴來與客戶互動的一個很好的來源。其中一些合作夥伴，如 Angel 所提到的，不僅限於中國，也涵蓋更廣泛的亞洲與非洲版圖。

Okay. Thank you, Anil, let's go to the next question please, Jake.

好的。謝謝你，Anil。請進行下一個問題，Jake。

Andrew Cean, Autonomous Research.

Andrew Cean，Autonomous Research。

Hello everyone, three sort of numbers-based questions. Firstly, you've given on bancassurance that you're 95% of the way to your -- the lower end of your target. Could you give the same percentage for agency? Secondly, agency active numbers at 57,000, you were targeting 80,000 to 90,000 by 2027. Where do you actually think you're going to land on that?

各位好，我有三個偏數字面的問題。第一，你們提到銀保方面已經達到你們目標區間下限的 95%。代理人通路也能提供同樣的百分比嗎？第二，代理人活躍人數為 57,000 人，你們的目標是在 2027 年達到 80,000 到 90,000 人。你們實際上認為最後會落在什麼水準？

And then thirdly, you talked about improving new business profit margins in the medium term from the current 42%. Could you be a bit more specific as to what medium term is, and where 42% can go to?

第三，你們談到中期要把新業務利潤率從目前的 42% 提升。能否更具體說明「中期」是指多久，以及 42% 可能提升到什麼水準？

Thanks for those questions, Andrew. So you're right that bancassurance is at 95%. So that allows us a significant level of headroom close to two years in advance of the goal or the objective that we had set for bancassurance. Agency on that same count is roughly about close to two-third of the objective that we had set for agency. And that also kind of leans in to your second question, which is what are we doing about active agents, and Naveen was trying to articulate that.

謝謝你的問題，Andrew。你說得沒錯，銀保已達到 95%。因此，距離我們為銀保所設定的目標或目的，我們在提前將近兩年的時間點就已經擁有相當大的成長空間（headroom）。同樣口徑下，代理人通路大約達到我們為代理人所設定目標的約三分之二。這也呼應你第二個問題：我們對活躍代理人要做什麼，而 Naveen 也正試著闡述這一點。

And the way we are thinking about this, Andrew, is that we are going to push both the productivity as well as active agents, right? And I don't have a kind of specific kind of mathematical formula for what I would like to kind of get to. As far as either through productivity or through active agents or a combination of that, we still kind of hit the agency agency number. And that could be different as compared to what we had conceived three years back, but I'm still confident that we will press on both the levers of productivity and active agents to get to the agency outcome that we had set for ourselves for 2027. To your question on NBP margin, I'm going to go to Ben for him to elaborate.

Andrew，我們的思路是同時推動生產力以及活躍代理人人數，對吧？我沒有一個非常具體的數學公式，來說我希望達到什麼樣的組合。無論是透過提升生產力、增加活躍代理人，或兩者結合，我們仍然會達成代理人通路的目標數字。這可能會與我們三年前的構想有所不同，但我仍有信心，我們會同時拉動「生產力」與「活躍代理人」這兩個槓桿，以在 2027 年達成我們為自己設定的代理人通路成果。至於你關於新業務利潤率（NBP margin）問題，我會請 Ben 來進一步說明。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Andrew. So look, I do think we have opportunity to continue to improve margins. I'm pleased with the performance, not just last year, but the year before as well. And that opportunity is fourfold really. Firstly, improving our health and protection product contribution in the mix. Secondly, accelerating agency growth, and you've heard that's the number 1 transformation priority. Thirdly, really, it's back to this point on operating leverage and building scale, and we're seeing that scale coming back.

是的。謝謝你，Anil。嗨，Andrew。所以你看，我確實認為我們有機會持續改善利潤率。我對表現感到滿意，不只是去年，前一年也是如此。而這個機會其實可分為四個面向。第一，提高我們健康與保障產品在組合中的貢獻。第二，加速代理人通路成長，你也聽到了，這是第一大轉型優先事項。第三，回到營運槓桿與擴大規模這一點，我們也看到規模效益正在回來。

And then finally, we'll continue to look to actively reprice propositions, and you've seen activity there. In terms of why medium term, maybe a bit of specific guidance. We talked in China about driving a greater proportion of par business. Our margins in China have come down 3 points year-on-year in 2025. I expect a further reduction in 2026 as we drive a higher proportion of participating business. Stepping back, though, I do think we have -- continue to have ample opportunity to drive overall group margin.

最後，我們會持續主動檢視並調整產品定價，你也看到我們在這方面的動作。至於為什麼是中期，給你一些更具體的指引。我們在中國談到要推動更高比例的分紅（par）業務。我們在中國的利潤率在2025年年減了3個百分點。隨著我們推動更高比例的分紅型業務，我預期2026年還會進一步下降。不過退一步看，我確實認為我們仍然——並將持續擁有充足的機會推動整體集團利潤率。

Thank you, Ben. Okay, Jake, over to the next one please. I'm just conscious that we are now at past, so let's make the question snappy and we'll make the answer snappy.

謝謝你，Ben。好的，Jake，請進行下一題。我注意到我們現在已經超時了，所以問題請簡短，我們回答也會簡短。

William Hawkins, KBW.

William Hawkins，KBW。

Could you talk a bit more about some of the non-Chinese markets, please, Anil, your outlook for Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia? I mean are these proportionate contributors to double-digit growth or tailwinds or headwinds?

Anil，能否多談一些非中國市場？你對印尼、新加坡與馬來西亞的展望如何？我的意思是，這些市場是否會按比例貢獻雙位數成長？是順風還是逆風？

And then secondly, please, the -- there's a 20% increase in required capital for the surplus ratio, I think. That feels sort of slightly outsized to your guidance that it should grow roughly in line with new business profit over time. So I've got in mind that it should be more like a sort of slightly north of 10% growth in the future. So can you explain if I'm right, why was there an outsized growth in required capital? And what's the outlook for that metric in the surplus ratio? I'll leave it at that.

第二個問題，關於盈餘比率（surplus ratio），我記得所需資本增加了20%。這看起來相對偏高，因為你們的指引是它應該會隨著時間大致與新業務利潤同步成長。所以我原本預期未來應該更像是略高於10%的成長。所以你能否解釋一下：如果我理解沒錯，為什麼所需資本會出現偏高的成長？以及在盈餘比率中，這個指標的展望如何？我就問到這裡。

Thanks, Will. So let me start with Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia. Yes. So yes, we obviously are looking for all the ASEAN markets to contribute. On Singapore, let me give you some texture. Clearly, very strong momentum on sales in the second half of last year. The sales grew by 19%. The challenge that we had in Singapore was more around product mix, which was skewed more towards savings and wealth as well as the demand coming from the government-sponsored medical plan, which is known as Shield, got calibrated because of changes in the co-payment rules.

謝謝，Will。我先從新加坡、印尼和馬來西亞開始。好的。所以是的，我們當然希望所有東協市場都能有所貢獻。先談新加坡，給你一些細節。很明顯，去年下半年銷售動能非常強。銷售成長了19%。我們在新加坡面臨的挑戰更多是在產品組合，較偏向儲蓄與財富管理；此外，政府支持的醫療計畫（稱為Shield）的需求也因共付額規則變更而被調整。

On account of the steps that we are taking as well as the strength that we have in Singapore, both in terms of the 1.5 million customer relationships as well as the distinct strengths across bancassurance, tied agency and financial advisory channel, we believe that we can grow Singapore to high single digit on new business profit, if not early double digit. Indonesia, very pleased, 11% growth on new business profit.

基於我們正在採取的措施，以及我們在新加坡的優勢——包括150萬名客戶關係，以及在銀行保險、專屬代理人與財務顧問通路的差異化強項——我們相信新加坡的新業務利潤可成長至高個位數，甚至有機會提早達到雙位數。印尼方面，我們非常滿意，新業務利潤成長11%。

And mind you, this is the second year that we've been able to deliver new business profit growth in Indonesia, which is what we had struggled to do that in the prior years running up to COVID and even coming out of COVID. So pleased with that. And it also tells you that we are in a much better position to be able to address some of the challenges on medical inflation as well as we distinctly see an opportunity to Naveen's point, in terms of improving our agency momentum.

而且請注意，這是我們連續第二年在印尼交出新業務利潤成長；在COVID之前以及COVID之後的一段時間，我們一直難以做到這點。所以對此感到滿意。這也顯示我們現在處於更好的位置，能夠因應醫療通膨的一些挑戰；同時也如Naveen所說，我們清楚看到在提升代理人動能方面的機會。

So I believe that Indonesia will continue to be double-digit growth. Malaysia, again, was a struggle for us in the first half of last year, but did exceedingly well in the second half of last year. And again, it talks to some of the steps that we took on PRUVentures, and how we are retooling our agency. We are seeing that momentum carry forward into 2026 and remain optimistic that Malaysia will come back to deliver double-digit growth as opposed to the 5% new business profit growth it delivered in 2025. I'm going to go to Ben on your second question.

因此我相信印尼將持續維持雙位數成長。馬來西亞方面，去年上半年對我們而言確實較為艱難，但去年下半年表現非常出色。這也反映了我們在PRUVentures採取的一些措施，以及我們如何重新調整代理人通路。我們看到這股動能延續到2026年，並且仍然樂觀認為馬來西亞將回到雙位數成長，而不是2025年所交出的5%新業務利潤成長。第二個問題我交給Ben回答。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Will. So the simple answer is it was down to nonoperating effects. We had very strong equity market performance in a number of our markets, where the local regulatory basis uses economic capital models and also has, as it happens, countercyclical equity risk adjustments.

好的。謝謝你，Anil。嗨，Will。簡單的答案是：這主要是非營運因素所致。我們在多個市場的股市表現非常強勁，而當地監管基礎採用經濟資本模型，並且剛好也有逆週期的股票風險調整。

So in periods where you have very strong equity performance, the risk adjustment increases, required capital grows. Of course, your available surplus also grows. But when we look at the free surplus ratio, we take that required capital number over.

因此在股市表現非常強勁的期間，風險調整會上升，所需資本也會增加。當然，你的可用盈餘也會增加。但在我們看自由盈餘比率（free surplus ratio）時，我們會把所需資本這個數字放在分母。

But of course, we truncate available surplus of what's actually fungible. So really, it was down to outsized equity performance in a few markets. Going forward, when you think about modeling required capital, I would guide you again to low double-digit growth rates of 12%, 13% in mind.

但同時，我們會把可用盈餘截斷到實際可調度（fungible）的部分。所以本質上，這是少數市場股市表現過於強勁所造成的。往前看，當你建模所需資本時，我會再次引導你以低雙位數的成長率來思考，大約12%、13%。

Okay, thank you, Ben. Okay, Jake, next question please

好的，謝謝你，Ben。好的，Jake，請下一題。

Kailesh Mistry from Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的Kailesh Mistry。

Hi, good afternoon. A few questions from me. On numbers, just on China CPL, could you just give us the core and comprehensive solvency ratio post the bond in January? Second one, there's something about a slightly lower CSM release rate in 2026. How much does that go down? Does it go down below 9%, or does it stay above? Or alternatively, you can give us the release rates for Indonesia and China, which seems to be driving that?

嗨，下午好。我有幾個問題。先談數字，關於中國CPL，你們能否提供1月發債後的核心與綜合償付能力比率？第二個，有提到2026年的CSM釋放率會略低。會下降多少？會降到9%以下，還是仍高於9%？或者，你也可以提供印尼與中國的釋放率，因為看起來是它們在驅動這個變化？

And then thirdly, just on agency, could you just give a little bit more color about this comment in the statement about revamping agency compensation? Are you changing the incentives, or is it purely about increasing commissions to make it more attractive, et cetera, et cetera? Thank you.

第三個，關於代理人通路，能否就聲明中提到的「改造代理人薪酬」多給一些說明？你們是在改變激勵機制，還是純粹提高佣金讓它更具吸引力，等等？謝謝。

Thanks, Anil. So I'm going to go quickly to Ben for the first two and then Naveen for the agency question.

謝謝，Anil。我會先很快請Ben回答前兩題，然後請Naveen回答代理人通路的問題。

Thanks. Hi, Kailesh. So if you pro forma for that recent perpetual debt issuance, the business is operating at 3 times and 2.3 times regulatory minimum levels. So more specifically, core is at 150% comprehensive around 234%. As I've mentioned before, we've increased our sources of local financing. And later in the first half of this year, the business will recapture some existing sub debt and replace that with perpetual debt, and that will give a further solvency uplift.

謝謝。嗨，Kailesh。所以如果把近期那筆永續債發行以備考（pro forma）方式納入，該業務目前的運作水準約為監管最低要求的3倍與2.3倍。更具體地說，核心約為150%，綜合約為234%。如我之前提到的，我們已提高本地融資來源。而在今年上半年稍晚，該業務將回收部分既有次順位債並以永續債取代，這將帶來進一步的償付能力提升。

In terms of your question on IFRS. Actually, at a group level, the release rate is going to be marginally lower. So in the sort of late 9.4s rather than 9.5s.

就您關於 IFRS 的問題而言。其實，在集團層面，釋放率將會略微偏低。所以大概會落在 9.4% 後段，而不是 9.5% 後段。

Okay. Thank you, Ben. And we're over to Naveen.

好的。謝謝你，Ben。接下來交給 Naveen。

So on the question on agency compensation, this is a structured initiative as a core pillar of our agency transformation to encourage the two behaviors that Anil already mentioned. One was improving top-tier productivity and the second one was to enhance quality recruitment. So what we have done through last year and this year so far is actually piloted this in a number of markets and put these structural initiatives now in place.

關於代理人酬金的問題，這是一項結構性計畫，作為我們代理通路轉型的核心支柱之一，用以鼓勵 Anil 先前提到的兩項行為。第一是提升頂尖層級的生產力，第二是強化高品質招募。因此，我們在去年以及今年迄今所做的，是在多個市場進行試點，並且現在已把這些結構性措施落地。

In fact, we had pretested this with a large number of our agents and leaders. In the pretesting, it was very well received. And now in the markets where we have actually rolled it out, it's also very well received, and the implementation has been quite smooth. This is targeted to both agents as well as their leaders who actually recruit them. And as I said earlier, it's totally aligned to our transformation objectives.

事實上，我們已先與大量代理人與主管進行預先測試。在預測試中，反應非常正面。而在我們實際推行的市場，也同樣獲得良好回饋，導入過程相當順利。這項措施同時針對代理人以及實際招募他們的主管。如我先前所說，這與我們的轉型目標完全一致。

Thanks, Naveen.

謝謝你，Naveen。

Okay, next question please, Jake.

好的，下一題，Jake。

Changazi, Kepler Cheuvreux.

Changazi，Kepler Cheuvreux。

Hello, thank you. Just very briefly on this PRUVenture, which sounds very interesting. In terms of what happened in Hong Kong, 2/5 of recruitment, new recruitment came from PRUVenture. So what was the number of agents in '24 and '25 in Hong Kong? And on the OFSG, just two questions. We have the usual slide where we're looking for 2026 new business profit contributing plus $0.5 billion to 2027 OFSG.

您好，謝謝。簡單問一下這個 PRUVenture，聽起來很有意思。就香港的情況而言，新招募中有五分之二來自 PRUVenture。那麼香港在 2024 年與 2025 年的代理人數量是多少？另外關於 OFSG，有兩個問題。我們看到常見的那張投影片，目標是 2026 年新業務利潤對 2027 年 OFSG 的貢獻增加 5 億美元以上。

Can I just -- is that assuming some sort of mix shift, which accelerates conversion of OFSG or is just normal new business profit growth? And the last point on the operating variance, I know Ben mentioned positive returning to historic positive levels previously, and you're a bigger company. Previously, you used to give that chart where it was 0.9% of opening EV from 2011 to H1 '24. In '24, it was 1.4% of opening EV. How -- is there any reason not to assume it will be 8% of opening EV, and where should we be landing on that percentage? Thank you.

我想確認一下——這是否假設有某種產品/業務組合的轉移，從而加速 OFSG 的轉換，還是只是一般的新業務利潤成長？最後一點關於營運差異（operating variance），我知道 Ben 提到先前回到歷史上的正值水準，而且你們現在公司規模更大。以前你們會提供那張圖表，顯示 2011 年到 2024 年上半年為期初 EV 的 0.9%。在 2024 年，則是期初 EV 的 1.4%。那麼——有任何理由不去假設它會是期初 EV 的 0.8% 嗎？我們應該落在什麼百分比水準？謝謝。

Thanks for the question. Let me give it to Naveen to the Hong Kong PRUVenture, and then we'll go to Ben for the two questions on financials.

謝謝你的提問。我先請 Naveen 回答香港 PRUVenture 的部分，接著再請 Ben 回答兩個財務問題。

Sure. So on Hong Kong PRUVentures, as I said, PRUVentures is fundamentally a high-quality professional recruitment scheme in Hong Kong. Very pleased to share that last year, which is in '25 compared to '24, PRUVentures scaled up by 43% and 40% of the incoming class of recruits was through PRUVentures. So that's where we are on Hong Kong, and I already covered Malaysia. And as I said, we will now be looking to roll this out with the right customizations to other markets.

好的。關於香港 PRUVentures，如我所說，PRUVentures 本質上是在香港的一項高品質、專業化招募計畫。很高興分享，去年（也就是 2025 年相較 2024 年），PRUVentures 規模成長了 43%，而新進招募班級中有 40% 是透過 PRUVentures 進來的。這就是我們在香港的進展；馬來西亞的部分我已經說明過。如我所說，我們接下來會在適當的客製化下，將此計畫推廣到其他市場。

Thanks, Naveen. Let's go to Ben on the financials.

謝謝你，Naveen。接下來請 Ben 談財務部分。

So on the OFSG production projection slide, I think you're referring to slide 43 on the top right, a, the new business additions. So the -- that is the normal profit signature that you're seeing there. We design our products to be very capital efficient. It's about capital velocity for us. So we're writing business with a fast monetization profile and a short payback period.

關於 OFSG 產出預測那張投影片，我想你指的是第 43 頁右上角 a 的新業務增量。所以——你在那裡看到的是正常的利潤特徵（profit signature）。我們在產品設計上非常重視資本效率。對我們而言，重點在於資本周轉速度（capital velocity）。因此我們承作的業務具有快速變現的特性與較短的回收期。

Put simply, the cost of writing the business, whether that's distribution, underwriting, admin, capital requirements or so on, comes through in year one. And then we try to recoup some of those costs through the collection of second year premiums to match revenue to costs closely as possible. So that's why you have a jump there in the release. And thereafter, it's more of a levelized pattern.

簡單說，承作業務的成本——不論是通路、核保、行政、資本要求等等——都會在第一年反映出來。接著我們會嘗試透過收取第二年保費來回收部分成本，讓收入與成本盡可能緊密匹配。這就是為什麼你會看到釋放在那裡出現跳升。之後則會呈現較為平準化的走勢。

I'll be brief on variances. You should have in mind north of $200 million in 2027. As I said, we're now a bigger business. We're very much focused on driving scale and cost containment.

關於差異（variances）我簡短說明。你應該把 2027 年的水準想成高於 2 億美元。如我所說，我們現在是一個更大的業務體量。我們非常專注於推動規模化與成本控管。

Okay. Thanks, Ben. Conscious time runs on. Dominic, do you want to go next? Jay, give you to Dominic, please?

好的。謝謝你，Ben。考量時間不斷推進。Dominic，你要不要接著問？Jay，請把問題交給 Dominic？

Dominic Omahany, BNP Paribas Exane.

Dominic Omahany，BNP Paribas Exane。

Thanks for taking questions and for squeezing me in. I will try to be quick. Three, if that's okay. One is just on your IRRs, I think greater than 25% is a great number. How does that compare between banker and agency? My guess is that banker is lower, but tell me if that's wrong.

謝謝讓我提問，也謝謝把我安排進來。我會盡量快。三個問題，如果可以的話。第一個是關於你們的 IRR，我認為高於 25% 是很漂亮的數字。在銀行通路與代理通路之間，這個數字如何比較？我猜銀行通路較低，但如果我猜錯請指正。

The second question is just on the shape of new business surplus emergence, really following up on Farooq's question. Are you expecting any further change in the shape? It's accelerated in '25. Should we expect further acceleration in the shape of emergence beyond this?

第二個問題是關於新業務盈餘釋放（surplus emergence）的形狀，算是延續 Farooq 的問題。你們是否預期這個形狀還會有進一步變化？它在 2025 年加速了。我們是否應該預期在此之後釋放形狀還會進一步加速？

And then a last question on variances. Very clear, thank you, Ben, for the explicit guidance on the variances in '27. If you're still -- if you're already growing, frankly, at a very decent clip, I would have thought that you would have already got to the stage where you're getting the benefit of that operating leverage coming through in the variances, which says to me there must be some relatively substantial negatives coming through still in '25, offsetting that to get to your $45 million negative. What are these? What are the sorts of things that are acting against that? Thank you.

最後一個問題關於差異（variances）。非常清楚，謝謝你，Ben，對 2027 年差異給了明確指引。如果你們仍然——坦白說——以相當不錯的速度成長，我原本以為你們應該已經到了能在差異中看到營運槓桿效益釋放的階段；但這也意味著在 2025 年仍有一些相對顯著的負面因素在發生，抵銷之後才會落到你們所說的負 4,500 萬美元。這些是什麼？有哪些因素在對抗（抵銷）這些效益？謝謝。

Ben, do you want to take that?

Ben，你要回答嗎？

Yes. Hi, Dom. Look, I'll start -- I'll do it in reverse order, if that's okay. In terms of variances without repeating my earlier comments, the sort of residual negative you're now seeing is a mixture of scale coming back, but we continue to, if you like, incubate some of our smaller businesses. So Cambodia, Lao, Myanmar, Africa, for example.

要。嗨，Dom。我先——如果可以的話，我倒著回答。就差異而言，在不重複我先前評論的前提下，你現在看到的剩餘負面因素，是規模回升的同時，但我們仍持續——如果你願意這麼說——在孵化一些較小的業務。例如柬埔寨、寮國、緬甸、非洲等。

Scale is building nicely as renewal premiums compound. We have further actions in train to drive cost containment, just to give you a little bit of color. So it's not simply about revenue compounding. We are focused on changing or structural changes in the cost base through automation, digitization, tech convergence, investing in processes, using centers of scale and excellence all with the aim of driving lower net costs going forward. So we'll -- we hope to be able to deploy that leverage into reinvestment in the business.

隨著續期保費的累積，規模正在良好地建立。我們也有進一步的行動正在推進，以強化成本控管，提供你一些背景說明。所以不只是收入的累積成長而已。我們著重於透過自動化、數位化、技術整合、流程投資、運用規模化與卓越中心等方式，對成本基礎進行變革或結構性調整，目標是在未來推動更低的淨成本。因此我們——希望能把這些槓桿效益用於對業務的再投資。

Cash profile, I'm pleased with all the improvements we made over the last few years. I know you're very aware of those as a result of repricing, so I won't repeat them here. I think we do have opportunities to continue to improve the business. This is -- and we'll look for that from a repricing perspective, but mix, more health and protection, again, accelerating agency will all help with that cash profile. To be very clear, I'm not reliant on any change in business profile to get to 2027.

就現金狀況而言，我對過去幾年我們所做的所有改善感到很滿意。我知道由於重新定價，你對這些非常清楚，所以我就不在這裡重複了。我認為我們確實還有機會持續改善業務。這方面——我們會從重新定價的角度尋找機會，但產品組合、更高比例的健康與保障，以及再次加速代理渠道，皆將有助於改善該現金狀況。非常明確地說，我不依賴任何業務概況的變化來達成 2027 年的目標。

You shouldn't read that being inferred into these numbers. And that's because we put the hard yards in repricing savings products a number of years back. So we're not reliant on that, comfortable with the 2027 target. On your IRRs, actually, on -- in terms of the products sold, very similar products sold on. So at a product level, the IRRs by channel are actually pretty consistent.

你不應該從這些數字中推論出那樣的意思。這是因為我們在數年前就已在重新定價儲蓄型產品方面下了很大的功夫。因此我們不依賴那一點，對 2027 年目標也很有信心。至於你提到的 IRR，實際上——就所銷售的產品而言，所賣出的產品非常相近。所以在產品層級，各渠道的 IRR 其實相當一致。

So differences in the sort of channel IRRs overall are more a factor of mix. And as I think you know, the agency channel tends to sell a greater proportion of health and protection. That said, one of the things that has improved our margins and our cash profiles is the success we've had driving health and protection through the bancassurance channel, improving our margins consistently year-on-year. So very pleased with that.

因此，整體渠道 IRR 的差異更多是由產品組合所致。而且如你所知，代理渠道往往銷售較高比例的健康與保障產品。話雖如此，提升我們利潤率與現金狀況的一個因素，是我們成功透過銀保渠道推動健康與保障產品，讓我們的利潤率逐年穩定改善。所以對此非常滿意。

Thank you, Ben, for that concise answer. We've got a chance for a very last question from Nasib at UBS. Jake, you let him through. We'll take a few offline. I can see a few on the list. We'll come back to them from the IR team. But Nasib, do you want to go ahead?

謝謝你，Ben，回答得很精簡。我們還有機會讓 UBS 的 Nasib 提最後一個問題。Jake，你讓他進來。我們也會有幾個問題改為線下回覆。我看到清單上還有幾個。我們的投資人關係（IR）團隊會再回覆。那麼 Nasib，你要開始嗎？

Nasib Ahmed, UBS.

Nasib Ahmed，UBS。

Thanks, Patrick. Just two questions from me. Firstly, on Hong Kong market share, I was looking at Hong Kong Association data. 2023, you had about 30% market share. I'm looking at agency and now 2025, you're less than 25%. That's as a percentage of APE. So can you give more color on are you going to grow back to greater market share in Hong Kong in dollar amounts?

謝謝，Patrick。我有兩個問題。第一個關於香港市占率，我在看香港保險業協會的數據。2023 年你們大約有 30% 的市占率。我看代理渠道，到 2025 年你們已低於 25%。這是以 APE 的百分比計算。所以你能否多說明一下，你們是否會在香港以金額計回到更高的市占率？

And then the second one is on numbers. Ben, you said investment spend is going to be broadly done by 2026. I think if you kind of add up the numbers, you're maybe left with $100 million, $150 million of the $1 billion. Are you expecting to spend less than $1 billion in '27? Is it kind of closer to zero or $50 million? Thank you.

第二個是關於數字。Ben，你說投資支出到 2026 年大致就會完成。我想如果把數字加總，你們在 10 億美元中可能還剩 1 億到 1.5 億美元。你們預期在 2027 年的支出會少於 10 億美元嗎？會更接近零，還是 5,000 萬美元？謝謝。

Thanks for those questions, Nasib. So on Hong Kong market share, again, I want to kind of go back to the emphasis on quality growth, right? And that is where our focus has been. Within that, those parameters, yes, we absolutely would like to grow our market share, and we do have plans to do that. But at all times, our underpin will be quality growth as well as cash generation.

謝謝你的問題，Nasib。關於香港市占率，我想再次回到我們對「高品質成長」的重點，好嗎？這一直是我們的聚焦所在。在這些框架之內，是的，我們當然希望提升市占率，而且也確實有相關計畫。但任何時候，我們的根本仍會是高品質成長以及現金創造。

And again, just to illustrate that point, we did improve margins despite the activity that we saw on different fronts in Hong Kong by 2 percentage points, which is a good illustration. And I gave some other stats to illustrate the point as to the discipline that we are adopting in focusing on quality growth in Hong Kong. What we are interested, Nasib, is market share of new business profit and market share of profitable growth in Hong Kong as opposed to simply driving sales market share. But as I said, broadly within the construct of quality, absolutely will be driving a greater level of market share. Ben, you want to take the last one?

再舉例說明這一點，儘管我們在香港不同面向都看到一些活動，我們仍把利潤率提升了 2 個百分點，這就是很好的例證。我也提供了其他數據來說明，我們在香港聚焦高品質成長所採取的紀律。我們關注的是香港新業務利潤的市占率，以及香港「具獲利性的成長」的市占率，而不是單純追求銷售市占率。不過如我所說，在品質為前提的架構下，我們確實會推動更高程度的市占率。Ben，你要回答最後一題嗎？

Yes. Hi, Nasib. So yes, look, it's our plan to largely complete the investment in capability program in 2026. We'll be investing a further $300 million to $350 million. And this investment essentially covers foundational dimensions.

是的。嗨，Nasib。是的，你看，我們的計畫是在 2026 年大致完成能力建設計畫的投資。我們將再投資 3 億到 3.5 億美元。這項投資基本上涵蓋基礎性的面向。

I'm not expecting material amounts in 2027. And we're being very disciplined about our spend. As I mentioned earlier on the call, our focus is on driving operating leverage, and that enables ongoing investment in capability in the normal course of business beyond the target period.

我不預期 2027 年會有顯著金額。我們對支出非常有紀律。正如我在電話會議較早時提到的，我們的重點是推動營運槓桿，而這使我們能在目標期間之後，於日常營運中持續進行能力投資。

Okay. Thanks, Ben, very much. Jake, I'm going to pass back to Anil to close the call. He's just got some very closing remarks.

好的。非常謝謝你，Ben。Jake，我把電話交回給 Anil 來做結語。他有一些最後的結語。

Thanks, Patrick, and thanks, everyone. Enjoyed the questions. And hopefully, we were able to provide you a greater level of detail and insights. We have made good progress in our transformation journey. And clearly, this would not have been possible without the dedication and the hard work of our people, our agents as well as our partners.

謝謝，Patrick，也謝謝各位。很享受這些提問。希望我們能提供更高程度的細節與洞見。我們在轉型旅程中已取得良好進展。而且很明顯，若沒有我們同仁、我們的代理人以及合作夥伴的投入與辛勤工作，這一切都不可能達成。

I'm very proud to work alongside them every single day in the way we support our customers, communities and shareholders. A few of us will be on the road, so we will get an opportunity to meet with you face-to-face and would be happy to kind of get into further details and further conversations if we haven't been able to answer some of those points. We look forward to updating you on the first quarter business performance in early May. And as I said, I look forward to seeing you when we are on the road. Thank you, and goodbye.

我非常自豪能每天與他們並肩工作，並以我們支持客戶、社區與股東的方式為榮。我們其中幾位接下來會出差，因此將有機會與各位面對面交流；如果有些問題我們未能在此回答，也很樂意進一步深入細節並延伸討論。我們期待在 5 月初向各位更新第一季業務表現。也如我所說，期待在出差行程中與各位見面。謝謝，再見。

Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.

感謝各位出席。你現在可以中斷連線。