Prudential PLC (PUK) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everybody, and thank you for joining us on today's Prudential Half Year Results 2025. My name is Drew, and I'll be the operator on today's call. (Operator Instructions)

大家早安，感謝大家參加今天的保誠2025年半年業績發表會。我叫德魯，今天電話會議的接線生。（操作員指示）

It's now my pleasure to hand over to Patrick Bowes to begin. Please go ahead when you're ready.

現在我很高興將發言權交給 Patrick Bowes。準備好後請繼續。

Thank you, Drew, and good afternoon and good morning to everyone. Welcome to Prudential plc's Half Year 2021 Results Analyst and Investor Call.

謝謝你，德魯，大家下午好，早安。歡迎參加 Prudential plc 2021 年上半年業績分析師和投資者電話會議。

Before I turn the call over to Anil, our CEO; and Ben, our CFO, a couple of housekeeping points. A recording of today's call will be available from Tuesday next week, and our full results package is available on our website. Anil and Ben will start the call with opening remarks followed by a Q&A, as you've just heard.

在我將電話轉給我們的執行長阿尼爾 (Anil) 和財務長本 (Ben) 之前，我想先談幾點基本事項。今天的電話會議錄音將於下週二提供，我們的完整結果包可在我們的網站上查看。正如您剛才聽到的，Anil 和 Ben 將首先致開幕詞，然後進行問答。

And just a quick word on recent developments we have shared with the market already regarding the potential listing of our shares in ICICI Prudential asset management company. We published the draft prospectus on July 9. However, we remain under a number of restrictions as to what we can say about this given the next stage of the process is to undergo a series of regulatory reviews. We will provide you with further updates in due course.

我已經與市場分享了有關我們在 ICICI Prudential 資產管理公司股票上市的可能性的最新進展，我只想簡單介紹一下。我們於7月9日公佈了招股說明書草案。然而，由於下一階段的流程將經過一系列監管審查，我們對此的評價仍受到一些限制。我們將適時向您提供進一步的更新資訊。

With that, let me pass over to Anil, our CEO, to start this off.

現在，請容許我把麥克風交給我們的執行長阿尼爾 (Anil)，由他來開始發言。

Thank you, Patrick. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our 2025 first half results and capital management update. I'm very pleased with our financial performance in the first half of 2025 during which we delivered both high quality growth and enhanced shareholder returns.

謝謝你，派崔克。大家早安、下午好、晚上好。感謝您今天參加我們的 2025 年上半年業績和資本管理更新。我對我們 2025 年上半年的財務表現感到非常滿意，在此期間我們實現了高品質的成長並提高了股東回報。

We achieved double-digit growth across our key financial metrics in line with the guidance we gave earlier in the year. We have reached an inflection point in our operating free surplus generation, enabling us to update our capital management program and increased shareholder returns. This demonstrates the strength of our business model and its ability to generate sustainable cash returns.

根據我們今年早些時候給出的指導，我們的主要財務指標都實現了兩位數的成長。我們的營運自由盈餘產生已經達到了一個轉折點，這使我們能夠更新資本管理計劃並提高股東回報。這證明了我們商業模式的實力及其產生可持續現金回報的能力。

New business profit and adjusted operating profit per share both grew 12%. Gross operating fee surplus generation grew 14% and dividends per share increased 13%. These results reflect strong momentum across our core markets, the sharpness of our execution and our relentless focus on writing high-quality new business, effectively managing in-force and improving our variances.

新業務利潤和調整後每股營業利潤均成長12%。總營業費用盈餘成長 14%，每股股息成長 13%。這些結果反映了我們核心市場的強勁勢頭、我們執行力的敏銳度以及我們對開展高品質新業務、有效管理現有業務和改善差異的不懈關注。

I'm also very pleased that we have now settled the dividend claim in Malaysia. Having reached the infection point in our capital generation and reflecting our confidence in the future, we have announced today our capital management update alongside an enhanced capital allocation framework. Including the completion by the end of this year of our existing share repurchase program, we expect to return in total more than $5 billion to shareholders between 2024 and 2027. Any initial net proceeds from the potential IPO of the Asset Management business in India will be in addition to this. Ben will cover our capital management update in more detail.

我也很高興我們現在已經解決了馬來西亞的股息索賠問題。我們的資本生成已達到感染點，反映了我們對未來的信心，我們今天宣布了資本管理更新以及增強的資本配置框架。包括今年底完成的現有股票回購計畫在內，我們預計在 2024 年至 2027 年期間向股東返還總額超過 50 億美元。印度資產管理業務潛在 IPO 的任何初始淨收益都將是除此之外的。Ben 將更詳細地介紹我們的資本管理更新。

We are now halfway through our strategic transformation, launched in August 2023 and are making good progress across our key priorities. We continue to invest to accelerate value creation across our markets actively pursuing structural growth opportunities as well as addressing areas that need improvement. We have invested $400 million in targeted initiatives, including modernizing our technology, processes and capabilities.

我們的策略轉型於 2023 年 8 月啟動，目前已進行到一半，並且在關鍵優先事項上取得了良好進展。我們將繼續投資以加速我們整個市場的價值創造，積極尋求結構性成長機會並解決需要改進的領域。我們已投資 4 億美元用於有針對性的舉措，包括實現技術、流程和能力的現代化。

Through these investments, we are accelerating our platform improvements, enhancing customer engagement and driving operational effectiveness at scale. They are underpinned by an increased focus on the use of data, predictive analytics and AI across the business. We are investing to make Prudential a stronger future-ready business.

透過這些投資，我們正在加速平台改進，增強客戶參與度並大規模提高營運效率。它們的基礎是整個企業更加重視數據、預測分析和人工智慧的使用。我們正在投資，以使保誠成為更強大、面向未來的企業。

While the macro environment remains volatile, we are very well positioned given our multichannel and our multi-market franchise. This is demonstrated by our broad-based new business profit growth, including 16% growth in our Hong Kong market and 34% growth in Indonesia. We have clear plans to continue to strengthen our performance, including in distribution and addressing areas of underperformance.

儘管宏觀環境仍然動盪，但憑藉我們的多通路和多市場特許經營權，我們處於非常有利的地位。我們廣泛的新業務利潤成長證明了這一點，其中香港市場成長了 16%，印尼成長了 34%。我們有明確的計劃來繼續加強我們的業績，包括分銷和解決業績不佳的領域。

Our multichannel distribution model is one of our greatest strengths, and we have a good balance between Agency and Bancassurance. Agency is our primary distribution channel, and we have one of the largest forces in the Asian insurance industry. We see significant value in further strengthening it.

我們的多通路分銷模式是我們最大的優勢之一，我們在代理商和銀保之間取得了良好的平衡。代理商是我們主要的通路，我們在亞洲保險業擁有最大的影響力之一。我們認為進一步加強它具有重大價值。

Our agency strategy focuses on driving high-quality profitable growth through quality recruitment, career progression towards MDRT and digital capabilities that boost both productivity and activation. Further developing our agency capabilities and accelerating our performance is a top priority for us, and we are activating bespoke change management programs in our markets.

我們的代理策略專注於透過高品質的招募、向 MDRT 邁進的職業發展以及提高生產力和活躍度的數位化能力來推動高品質的獲利成長。進一步發展我們的代理能力並加快我們的績效是我們的首要任務，我們正在我們的市場中啟動客製化的變革管理計劃。

In Bancassurance, the continued focus on strategic relationships and training has underpinned our strong performance with 14 markets delivering double-digit growth in new business profit. We have also recently successfully activated our new partnership with Bank Sharia Indonesia. We are also building on the foundation of our health transformation efforts to further accelerate growth in health and protection sales. These efforts will be instrumental in unlocking the next phase of sustainable, high-quality growth.

在銀保業務方面，我們持續專注於策略關係和培訓，這鞏固了我們強勁的業績，14 個市場的新業務利潤實現了兩位數成長。我們最近也成功啟動了與印尼伊斯蘭教銀行的新合作夥伴關係。我們也在健康轉型努力的基礎上進一步加快健康和防護銷售的成長。這些努力將有助於開啟下一階段可持續、高品質的成長。

Reflecting on our strategic progress and investments in the growth drivers of our business, we are confident we will carry the momentum in the second half and beyond. This keeps us firmly on track to achieve our 2027 financial objectives.

回顧我們的策略進展和對業務成長動力的投資，我們有信心在下半年及以後保持這一勢頭。這使我們堅定地朝著實現 2027 年財務目標的方向前進。

Today, I'm delighted to be joined on the call by the leadership team responsible for our businesses and would now like to hand it over to Ben Bulmer, our CFO, to walk through the financial highlights.

今天，我很高興能與負責我們業務的領導團隊一起參加電話會議，現在我想將電話會議交給我們的財務長 Ben Bulmer，來介紹一下財務亮點。

Thanks, Anil, and hello, everyone. Our first half 2025 financial performance reflects a positive start to the year as we continue to focus on accelerating growth in value and capital generation, in line with our strategy. We delivered double-digit growth across our primary financial KPIs, we're on track for our 2025 guidance, and we remain confident in achieving our 2027 financial objectives. Growth in our in-force profit and the ongoing capital return improved our return on embedded value to 15% and there's more to come.

謝謝，阿尼爾，大家好。我們 2025 年上半年的財務表現反映了今年的良好開端，因為我們將繼續專注於加速價值成長和資本創造，這符合我們的策略。我們的主要財務 KPI 均實現了兩位數成長，我們正在朝著 2025 年的目標前進，我們仍然有信心實現 2027 年的財務目標。我們有效利潤和持續資本回報的成長使我們的內含價值回報率提高到 15%，並且未來還會更高。

Net of the dividend payment, embedded value per share, excluding goodwill at the end of the period was $13.24 equivalent to GBP9.66. We've reached the inflection point in our capital generation trajectory with gross operating free surplus generation or OFSG up 14% year-on-year, whilst our net OFSG is up 20%. As we indicated in March, we've updated our capital allocation framework, reflecting both our strong capitalization and our confidence in the strategic progress we're making, which is driving improved organic capital generation.

扣除股利支付後，期末每股內含價值（不含商譽）為13.24美元，相當於9.66英鎊。我們的資本產生軌跡已達到拐點，總營運自由盈餘生成（OFSG）較去年同期成長14%，而淨營運自由盈餘生成（OFSG）較去年同期成長20%。正如我們在三月指出的那樣，我們已經更新了我們的資本配置框架，這反映了我們強大的資本實力以及我們對所取得的策略進展的信心，這將推動有機資本產生的改善。

Let me spend a couple of moments on our capital management update. Our enhanced capital allocation framework reflects a move to a total return orientation in respect of the distribution of our holding company free cash flow. We've updated our guidance for ordinary dividend per share growth rates and announced that from 2026, shareholders will also benefit from additional capital returns. This framework is intended to set a recurring and sustainable basis for returns going forward.

請容許我花幾分鐘時間介紹一下我們的資本管理更新。我們增強的資本配置架構反映了我們控股公司自由現金流分配到總回報導向的轉變。我們更新了每股普通股息成長率的指導，並宣布從 2026 年起，股東也將受益於額外的資本回報。該框架旨在為未來的回報奠定一個經常性和可持續的基礎。

In terms of ordinary dividends, our policy is unchanged. We've given guidance of greater than 10% dividend per share growth each year from 2025 to 2027, building on the 13% dividend per share growth in 2024. We will commence additional recurring capital returns in 2026, and we expect a buyback of $500 million in 2026 and a further return of $600 million in 2027. And as we previously said, capital above our established 175% to 200% operating range will be assessed regularly and if deemed excess, then capital will be reset to shareholders.

在普通股息方面，我們的政策保持不變。我們預計，在 2024 年每股股息成長率達到 13% 的基礎上，2025 年至 2027 年每年每股股息成長率將超過 10%。我們將在 2026 年開始額外的經常性資本回報，預計 2026 年回購 5 億美元，2027 年進一步回報 6 億美元。正如我們之前所說，超過我們既定的 175% 至 200% 營運範圍的資本將定期進行評估，如果被認為超出，則資本將重設為股東。

Lastly, we expect to complete our current $2 billion share buyback by the end of this year. Overall, this means we are planning to return to shareholders over $5 billion between 2024 and 2027. And this is before assuming any initial net proceeds of the proposed IPO of India Asset Management business.

最後，我們預計將在今年底前完成目前 20 億美元的股票回購計畫。總體而言，這意味著我們計劃在 2024 年至 2027 年期間向股東返還超過 50 億美元。這還未考慮印度資產管理業務擬議的 IPO 的任何初始淨收益。

In terms of financial performance in the period, we remain focused on writing quality new business with strong underlying capital generation. Our product IRRs remain above 25%, and our shareholder payback periods are less than four years. The $1.3 billion in new business profit added over the period, up 12% and reflects our continued focus on quality, driven by our actions to reprice products and improved mix.

就本期財務表現而言，我們仍專注於開展具有強大基礎資本產生的優質新業務。我們的產品內部報酬率維持在25%以上，股東回報期少於四年。本期間新增業務利潤 13 億美元，成長 12%，反映出我們持續注重質量，這得益於我們重新定價產品和改善產品組合的舉措。

The NBP margin expanded 2 percentage points to 38% compared with the first half of last year. As a result, the addition to 2027 capital emergence from first half 2025 new business increased by 27% year-on-year; much faster than APE growth during the same period.

NBP利潤率較去年上半年擴大2個百分點，達38%。因此，2025年上半年新業務帶來的2027年資本增加年增27%，遠高於同期APE的成長速度。

Management of our in-force book continues to improve with variances between actual and expected cash flows before investing in capabilities, continuing to meaningfully reduce. Underlying this improvement are a range of ongoing actions including repricing, enhanced claims management, cost containment and the benefits of a return to higher margin new business growth. We expect our core operating variances to return to our historic positive levels in 2027. In summary, as a result of the financial performance and execution to date of our strategy, we remain confident in achieving our 2027 financial objectives.

我們的有效帳簿管理持續改善，投資能力之前的實際現金流量和預期現金流量之間的差異持續大幅減少。這項改善的背後是一系列持續的行動，包括重新定價、加強索賠管理、成本控制以及恢復更高利潤的新業務成長的好處。我們預計，我們的核心營運差異將在 2027 年恢復到歷史正水準。總而言之，根據我們迄今為止的財務表現和策略執行情況，我們仍然有信心實現 2027 年的財務目標。

With that, I'll pass back to Patrick to open the Q&A.

說完這些，我會把話題轉回派崔克，開始問答環節。

Thank you to Ben and Anil. I'll hand over to our conference call moderator, Drew, who will provide instructions and then open the line for questions. Over to you, Drew.

感謝 Ben 和 Anil。我將把電話會議主持人德魯 (Drew) 交給他，他將提供指導，然後開放提問熱線。交給你了，德魯。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Michael Chang, CGSI.

Michael Chang，CGSI。

Thanks a lot. Thanks and thanks for giving me the opportunity to ask the first question. I'd like to say congrats on a very solid set of results. I primarily have two questions.

多謝。謝謝，也謝謝你給我機會提出第一個問題。我想對所取得的一系列非常堅實的成果表示祝賀。我主要有兩個問題。

The first question relates to the agency business. I really like the chart on page 10 of the slide pack because it gave an idea in terms of areas of strength as well as areas of improvement. In areas of improvement typically means that you do have plans for improving those areas.

第一個問題是關於代理業務的。我真的很喜歡投影片第 10 頁的圖表，因為它給出了優勢領域和改進領域的想法。改進領域通常意味著您確實有改進這些領域的計劃。

So if I can just focus on maybe the two major markets, say, Mainland China, areas for improvement. What's the outlook on that front? Because I think it was flagged in the results release that there are a number of regulatory changes which are occurring right now. But then I would also flag that in terms of agent numbers. Agent growth potentially quite strong in terms of new agency recruits up 45%. So maybe you can elaborate a bit more on the Mainland China business.

因此，如果我可以只專注於兩個主要市場，例如中國大陸，那麼就是需要改進的領域。這方面的前景如何？因為我認為結果發布中已經指出目前正在發生一些監管變化。但我也會根據代理數量來標記這一點。代理商成長潛力相當強勁，新代理商招募數量成長 45%。所以也許您可以更詳細地介紹一下中國大陸的業務。

And then in terms of areas of strength, Hong Kong clearly stands out. Agency new business value growth is very solid. And in terms of agency recruitment, it's been strong for a number of years. So maybe you can shed some light on the profile of these recruits and how sustainable is the strong agent growth?

從優勢領域來看，香港顯然脫穎而出。代理商新業務價值成長十分穩健。就代理商招募而言，多年來一直表現強勁。那麼，也許您可以介紹一下這些新員工的概況以及強勁的代理商成長的可持續性如何？

Then my second question would relate to capital management. So capital management, Ben appreciate the detail given on the capital management framework, the buyback amount for 2027. But maybe you can shed some light on how these amounts are determined? Because investors, they do focus on sustainability they actually might like to understand if we were to project going forward because the free surplus generation, the value of in-force monetization, that is all disclosed. How should we think about the framework for future buybacks? Is it something like one of your peers where by the 75% of net OFSG or other considerations.

那麼我的第二個問題就與資本管理有關。因此，對於資本管理，Ben 很欣賞有關資本管理框架的詳細信息，即 2027 年的回購金額。但也許您可以解釋一下這些金額是如何決定的？因為投資人確實關注永續性，如果我們要預測未來，他們實際上可能想了解，因為自由盈餘的產生、有效貨幣化的價值，這些都已揭露。我們該如何思考未來回購的框架？它是否像您的同行一樣，需要 75% 的淨 OFSG 或其他考慮因素。

And maybe also related to that, on page 6, Infocare a chart on the total capital returns in 2026 and 2027. Does that mean that the Indian AMC IPO should we go ahead, the capital will be returned over two years? Thanks a lot.

也許與此相關的是，在第 6 頁，Infocare 提供了 2026 年和 2027 年總資本回報的圖表。這是否意味著，如果印度AMC進行IPO，資本將在兩年內退還？多謝。

Thanks, Michael. Let me start with the agency question, and I will then flip it to Ben to answer the capital management one.

謝謝，麥可。我先從代理問題開始，然後我會把這個問題交給本來回答資本管理問題。

So firstly, at a high level, we, as you know, have a significantly strong balance between agency and Bancassurance. And within that, we clearly understand that agency is an area of key focus for us given the fact that it continues to be our primary acquisition channel contributing to 55% of new business profit growth.

首先，從高層次來看，如您所知，我們在代理商和銀保之間保持著相當好的平衡。並且，我們清楚地認識到代理商是我們關注的重點領域，因為它仍然是我們的主要收購管道，為新業務利潤成長貢獻了 55%。

Specifically to your question on Mainland China, we have a change management program that we have instituted in China. You rightly pointed out that our new recruits are up 45%, very much in line with the focus that we have employed on quality recruitment. And we have launched our venture program, which is our flagship quality recruitment program in China.

具體來說，關於您關於中國大陸的問題，我們在中國制定了一項變革管理計畫。您正確地指出，我們的新招募人數增加了 45%，這非常符合我們對高品質招募的關注。我們還啟動了創業計劃，這是我們在中國的旗艦優質招募計劃。

I think we are starting to now see some early evidence of that change management program come through with our active agents, up 6%. And I believe based on the measures that we are putting in, the agency channel in China will start to complement the strong Bancassurance performance that we continue to see in China Mainland. And that's on account of our strong relationships, both with CITIC Bank as well as with Standard Charter.

我認為我們現在開始看到一些早期證據表明，變革管理計劃已在我們的活躍代理商中實施，成長了 6%。我相信，根據我們採取的措施，中國的代理管道將開始補充我們在中國大陸持續看到的強勁的銀保業績。這是因為我們與中信銀行和渣打銀行建立了牢固的關係。

With respect to regulatory changes, and again, this is very much in line with what we had expected. I think the regulatory changes are very much focused on ensuring greater retention of agents, ensuring that the agents have a decent source of income, which is kind of spread over a period of time. And again, this is not a -- it's pretty much in sync with what we are trying to do, which is drive quality of resulting into greater activation and greater productivity.

關於監管變化，這與我們的預期非常一致。我認為監管變化主要集中在確保代理商更好地留住人才，確保代理商擁有可觀的收入來源，並且這種收入可以在一段時間內分散。再說一次，這不是——它與我們正在嘗試做的事情完全同步，即提高質量，從而提高激活和生產力。

In terms of your Hong Kong question on agency, very pleased, by the way, firstly, with the Hong Kong performance. I like the shape of our Hong Kong performance. Good balance between agency and Bancassurance, good balance between domestic and MCV.

關於您關於香港代理機構的問題，順便說一句，首先，我對香港的表現感到非常滿意。我喜歡我們香港演出的風格。代理商和銀保之間以及國內和 MCV 之間保持良好的平衡。

And if you remember, when I got into my role 2.5 years back, I had flagged off that we would like to strengthen our performance in domestic to complement our MCV. And towards that, our active agents are up 11%, our productivity NBP per active agent is up 4%, and our recruitment continues to be on track to deliver greater than 4,000 new recruits in 2025. So very much like the shape of our Hong Kong business and the measures that we are taking and remain highly confident that we will carry the trajectory that we set for ourselves in first half into the second.

如果您還記得的話，兩年半前我上任時，我就曾表示，我們希望加強國內業務的表現，以補充我們的 MCV。為了實現這一目標，我們的活躍代理數量增加了 11%，每個活躍代理的生產力 NBP 增加了 4%，我們的招聘工作繼續按計劃進行，預計到 2025 年將招聘超過 4,000 名新員工。非常喜歡我們香港業務的狀況和我們正在採取的措施，並且仍然非常有信心我們將在下半年延續我們在上半年設定的軌跡。

I'm now going to flip it to Ben for the capital management question.

我現在要把這個問題交給 Ben，請他回答資本管理問題。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Michael. So in terms of capital management, the update reflects our confidence in our business model. Really, the strength of our balance sheet and also the progress we've made in our strategy means we've reached the capital inflection point. That's enabled us to then pivot to a total return proposition.

是的。謝謝，阿尼爾。你好，麥可。因此，就資本管理而言，更新反映了我們對商業模式的信心。事實上，我們資產負債表的強勁以及我們在策略上取得的進展意味著我們已經達到了資本拐點。這使我們能夠轉向總回報主張。

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, that's funded by sustained annual net capital generation. And you need to remember to apply the 70% remittance to the holding company. There's a few slides in my deck, Michael, that set out the building blocks to enable you to project that.

正如我在開場白中提到的，這是由持續的年度淨資本生成提供的資金。並且您需要記住將 70% 的匯款用於控股公司。邁克爾，我的簡報中有幾張投影片，列出了一些基本要素，可以幫助你實現這一目標。

To keep things simple, we've given numerical guidance to the end of 2027. I think the important point is we provided a durable framework sustainability has been very important to us when thinking about this. We're a double-digit growth company, not just in value but also in the conversion of that value to cash and capital generation, so we expect growing capital generation.

為了簡單起見，我們給出了截至 2027 年底的數位指引。我認為重要的一點是我們提供了一個持久的框架，永續性對我們來說非常重要。我們是一家兩位數成長的公司，不僅在價值上，而且在將價值轉化為現金和資本創造方面，因此我們預期資本創造將會成長。

The Board will regularly review the quantum and form of the additional returns to ensure that's in the best interest of all of our shareholders. And as we've said, they'll additionally review any residual capital over and above that 200% free surplus ratio. And if that's deemed excess, that too will be returned to shareholders.

董事會將定期審查額外回報的數量和形式，以確保符合所有股東的最佳利益。正如我們所說，他們還會審查超過 200% 自由盈餘比率的任何剩餘資本。如果這被認為是多餘的，那麼它也將返還給股東。

Thank you. Our next question today comes..

謝謝。我們今天的下一個問題是…

Hold on, Drew. We just got one more question, I think.

堅持住，德魯。我想我們還有一個問題。

I think I missed Michael's third question India AMC returns. So Michael, as you heard at the top of the call, we're under regulatory restrictions as to what we can say about the timing and quantum of those returns. You're right, they've been included on our slides. You should take that as indicative.

我想我錯過了邁克爾的第三個問題印度 AMC 回歸。邁克爾，正如你在電話會議開始時聽到的那樣，我們受到監管限制，無法透露這些回報的時間和數量。你說得對，它們已經包含在我們的幻燈片中了。你應該將此視為指示。

Thank you. Drew, should we go to the next question?

謝謝。德魯，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？

Larissa Van Deventer, Barclays.

拉里薩·範·德文特，巴克萊銀行。

Thank you very much and good morning. And two quick questions from my side, please.

非常感謝，早安。請問我這邊兩個簡短的問題。

The first one on outlook and the second one on margin, which relates to the outlook. You said that you have reached an inflection point in capital generation, which gives you confidence in your ability to generate sustainable cash returns? What is the key driver of that confidence? And then also, what are the main risks to not reaching your 2027 objectives?

第一個是關於前景，第二個是關於保證金，這與前景有關。您說過，你們已經達到了資本創造的轉折點，這讓您對自己產生可持續現金回報的能力充滿信心？這種信心的主要驅動力是什麼？那麼，未能實現 2027 年目標的主要風險是什麼？

Related to that, your margin expanded by 2.3 percentage points, but it is still over 19 percentage points lower than that of 1 of your key competitors, recognizing that the geographic wise distribution would impact the margin. But how much scope to margin improvement do you consider possible that will be derived from scale benefits, product mix, cost cutting and the like, please? Thank you.

與此相關，您的利潤率擴大了 2.3 個百分點，但仍比您的一個主要競爭對手低 19 個百分點，並且認識到地理分佈會影響利潤率。但是，您認為透過規模效益、產品組合、成本削減等因素，利潤率能提高多少呢？謝謝。

Thanks, Larissa. Let me take the first question on outlook, and then I will flip it to Ben for the margin question.

謝謝，拉里薩。讓我先回答關於前景的第一個問題，然後我會把它交給 Ben 回答關於利潤率的問題。

So as I mentioned in my opening comments that we remain highly confident to carry the trajectory of the first half into the second. And the results that we were able to deliver in first half underscores the strength of our business model, double-digit pretty much across all the matrices. Our results are obviously -- are driven by the relentless focus that we are employing on writing quality business as well as the focus on converting that quality business to cash.

正如我在開場白中提到的那樣，我們仍然非常有信心將上半年的軌跡帶入下半年。我們在上半年所取得的成果凸顯了我們商業模式的實力，幾乎所有矩陣的表現都達到了兩位數。我們的業績顯然是由我們堅持不懈地專注於開展優質業務以及專注於將優質業務轉化為現金所驅動的。

And we like the balance between Bancassurance and agency. I did mention earlier that Bancassurance continues to perform quite well. I am not satisfied on agency performance in a few of our markets. Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia are stable to growing on agency. But I think we have a potential in markets like Malaysia and Vietnam, where industry-related challenges are not only impacting Prudential, it's impacting the whole sector.

我們喜歡銀保和代理之間的平衡。我之前確實提到過，銀保業務繼續表現良好。我對我們一些市場的代理業績並不滿意。香港、新加坡、印尼等地代理業務穩定成長。但我認為我們在馬來西亞和越南等市場具有潛力，這些市場與產業相關的挑戰不僅影響保誠，也影響整個產業。

And we have a very clear line of sight in terms of actions to be able to change the momentum in these couple of markets. I've already kind of spoken to the opportunity in China. And again, we have a specific change management program on agency in China that, again, I'm confident we'll start to show some demonstratable results.

我們對改變這兩個市場發展動能的行動有著非常清晰的認知。我已經談過在中國的機會。再次強調，我們在中國有一個針對代理商的具體變革管理計劃，我相信我們將開始展示一些明顯的成果。

And again, a combination of this plus the investments, Larissa, that we are making in the growth drivers of our business, be it expansion of our distribution. Just to give you one example there we are yet to fully activate the Bank Sharia Indonesia partnership. That's a significant partnership for us in a critical market. And we're just kind of getting started there, focusing on customer experience, growing our health and protection business. And that kind of gives us the confidence that not only will we be able to deliver the 2025 guidance, but it firmly keeps us on track to delivering the 2027 objectives, both on new business profit and on cash.

再說一遍，拉里薩，這是我們對業務成長動力的投資，無論是擴大我們的分銷管道。舉一個例子，我們尚未完全啟動與印尼伊斯蘭教法銀行的合作關係。對我們來說，這是一個關鍵市場中的重要夥伴關係。我們才剛起步，專注於客戶體驗，發展我們的健康和保護業務。這讓我們充滿信心，我們不僅能夠實現 2025 年的指導目標，而且還能堅定地實現 2027 年的目標，無論是在新業務利潤還是現金方面。

Thanks, Anil. Hi, Larissa. So on margins, we continue to see the opportunity to improve medium term. I was pleased to see another 2 points of margin improvement come through at the half year, that's on top of the 2 points you saw last year. And in short, the way we look at this is a fourfold opportunity.

謝謝，阿尼爾。你好，拉里薩。因此，就利潤率而言，我們繼續看到中期改善的機會。我很高興看到利潤率在半年內又提高了 2 個百分點，這是在去年 2 個百分點的基礎上提高的。簡而言之，我們認為這是一個四重機會。

Firstly, repricing, and you've seen considerable activity here and that's benefiting the cash flows and their contribution to 2027 quite visibly. Secondly, I think to your point, operating leverage and build its scale. I'm pleased in the first half of the year to see renewal premiums up 11%. So there's a scalability in growing expense allowables coming back into the platform. And then finally, improved health contribution, health and protection contribution in the mix and an improved agency contribution. So I think plenty of opportunity medium term for us to continue improving trajectory margins wise.

首先，重新定價，你已經看到這裡有相當多的活動，這對現金流及其對 2027 年的貢獻非常有利。其次，我認為就你的觀點而言，經營槓桿和擴大規模是關鍵。我很高興看到上半年續保保費上漲了 11%。因此，增加費用限額並返回平台具有可擴展性。最後，提高健康貢獻、健康和保護貢獻以及提高機構貢獻。因此我認為從中期來看我們有足夠的機會繼續改善軌跡利潤率。

Okay. Thank you. We can go to the next question.

好的。謝謝。我們可以進入下一個問題。

Farooq Hanif, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Farooq Hanif。

Hi, everybody. Thanks very much.

大家好。非常感謝。

I'm looking at applied, which shows your capital generation converted into free cash flow. And obviously, you're not sort of giving a payout ratio guidance here. You're looking at your situation every year to look at what your recurring buyback would be. But it seems to me that you're going to have a big jump, obviously, in 2027 in the net free service generation because you get to your targets, you don't have investment costs anymore, which will then drive very high -- or a big jump in free cash flow, I'm hoping the (inaudible). Does that mean in 2028, there the potential here for a leap in what you were able to pay in your buyback?

我正在查看應用程式情況，它顯示了您的資本產生轉化為自由現金流。顯然，您在這裡並沒有給出派息率指導。您每年都會審視自己的狀況，看看您的定期回購金額是多少。但在我看來，到 2027 年，你的淨免費服務生成量顯然會大幅增長，因為你達到了目標，不再需要投資成本，這將推動自由現金流大幅增長，我希望（聽不清楚）。這是否意味著到 2028 年，您在回購中支付的金額有可能出現飛躍？

My second question is, looking overall, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like your active agents are sort of flattish to down, but your productivity range is up low to 10%. Can you give us kind of a guide to where that's going those two metrics in the future, but what's driving those? And then very quickly, what's driving your banker margin improvement, and is that scope for further margin improvement bank? Thank you.

我的第二個問題是，從整體來看，如果我錯了，請糾正我，但看起來您的活躍代理商有點持平或下降，但您的生產力範圍卻上升到 10% 以下。您能否為我們介紹一下這兩個指標未來的發展方向，以及它們背後的驅動因素是什麼？那麼，很快，是什麼推動了您的銀行家利潤率的提高，以及銀行利潤率是否有進一步提高的空間？謝謝。

Thanks for your question. I'll flip it to Ben to start with the first question on OFSG conversion, and then I'll come to active agents and banca margins, if that's all right. Ben, do you want start?

謝謝你的提問。我將把它翻給 Ben，首先回答有關 OFSG 轉換的第一個問題，然後我將討論活躍代理和銀行利潤，如果可以的話。本，你想開始嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Farooq. So you're right. I mean, growing capital generation translates into a materially higher growing holding company free cash flow. As I mentioned in my video, that acceleration in gross OFSG between '24 and '27 means we're broadly doubling holding company free cash flow over the period. The total returns we set out are funded by sustained annual net capital generation, and we are paying out the majority of the flow. As I mentioned earlier, we've not given numbers beyond 2027, but I think provided an enduring framework and the building blocks to help get that.

是的。謝謝，法魯克。所以你是對的。我的意思是，不斷增長的資本產生意味著控股公司自由現金流的大幅成長。正如我在影片中提到的那樣，24 年至 27 年間 OFSG 總額的加速成長意味著我們在此期間的控股公司自由現金流大致翻了一番。我們設定的總回報由持續的年度淨資本產生提供資金，我們正在支付大部分資金流。正如我之前提到的，我們還沒有給出 2027 年以後的數字，但我認為提供了一個持久的框架和有助於實現這一目標的基礎。

Thanks, Ben. Farooq, if I may go to your question on active agents. So the way we think about growing our agency new business profit is to true levers, right? One is to drive active agents and the second one is to drive productivity. And you're absolutely right in pointing out that the 10% new business profit per active agent gain that we saw offset the decline that we saw in active agents.

謝謝，本。法魯克，我可以回答你關於活性劑的問題嗎？所以我們考慮增加代理商新業務利潤的方式是真正的槓桿，對嗎？一是推動代理商活躍度，二是推動生產力。您完全正確地指出，我們看到的每位活躍代理商新業務利潤增長 10%，抵消了活躍代理商數量的下降。

Now I did refer to some of the measures that we are putting in place to energize our active agents. And specifically in the ASEAN markets like Malaysia, like Vietnam, like Philippines, I think these are large agency markets that require and have the opportunity for us to drive greater activity. Again, the focus areas are very much what we had referred to earlier, which is quality recruitment, ensuring that we are investing in our technology platform, both to drive activity and productivity as well as uptiering our agents to MDRT.

現在我確實提到了我們正在採取的一些措施，以激勵我們的積極分子。特別是在馬來西亞、越南、菲律賓等東協市場，我認為這些都是大型代理商市場，需要我們並有機會推動更大的活動。再次強調，重點領域正是我們之前提到的，即高品質的招聘，確保我們投資於我們的技術平台，既可以推動活動和生產力，也可以將我們的代理商升級到 MDRT。

We are the second largest MDRT force globally, and our MDRTs increased by 3%. So we will press both the levers active agents. And as I said, I'm confident that the measures will start to show an improvement on active agents. But we also, on the other hand, have the productivity lever to be able to, as I said, drive both these to the goals that we have for 2027.

我們是全球第二大 MDRT 隊伍，我們的 MDRT 人數增加了 3%。因此，我們將同時按下兩個槓桿的活性劑。正如我所說，我相信這些措施將開始對活性劑產生改善作用。但另一方面，正如我所說，我們也擁有生產力槓桿，能夠推動這兩項目標實現我們 2027 年的目標。

Banca margins, again, yes. Banca again, doing very well. And in my view, Banca targets probably will be achieved well in advance of the 2027 guidance that we've given. So that in many ways, kind of creates a little bit of a headroom and an opportunity for us. The margins were driven by a few factors: one, product mix. Second is we have referred to some of the pricing actions.

銀行利潤率，再次，是的。再次，Banca 表現非常出色。在我看來，Banca 的目標很可能會比我們給出的 2027 年指引提前實現。因此，從很多方面來說，這都為我們創造了一點空間和機會。利潤率受幾個因素影響：一是產品組合。第二，我們提到了一些定價行動。

So they were applicable both on agency and Bancassurance. So that obviously translates to a better outcome. And then the geography mix, right? Hong Kong obviously had a bigger share or a bigger contribution in the first half. So a combination of these factors for led to the banca margins being higher.

因此，它們對代理商和銀保機構均適用。所以這顯然意味著更好的結果。然後是地理組合，對嗎？香港在上半年的份額或貢獻顯然更大。因此，這些因素的綜合作用導致銀行利潤率更高。

Okay. Drew, should we go to the next question, please?

好的。德魯，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？

Nasib Ahmed, UBS.

瑞銀的納西布·艾哈邁德（Nasib Ahmed）。

Hi. Thanks for taking my questions.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。

Firstly, on the perimeter of the business. You had the exits in Africa. Is there anything more in terms of the geographies that you would like to exit in Africa or elsewhere? And then related to the perimeter, you've got the Malaysian dividend issue result, but you still don't own 50% of the business, roughly 50%. Is there a way to get that back onto the books and pay the third party? That's kind of around the perimeter.

首先，在業務範圍方面。你們在非洲有出口。就地理區域而言，您還想在非洲或其他地區退出嗎？然後與週邊相關，您已經獲得了馬來西亞股息發行的結果，但您仍然不擁有 50% 的業務，大約 50%。有沒有辦法將其重新記入帳簿並支付給第三方？這有點像在周邊。

Second question around variances. Ben, you mentioned you want to get back to the historical positive levels. In 2020, I think it was more than $200 million. Is that kind of the level that we're thinking of in 2027?

第二個問題與方差有關。本，你提到你想回到歷史正面程度。到 2020 年，我認為這個數字將超過 2 億美元。這就是我們所設想的 2027 年的水準嗎？

And then finally, on the $1 billion capability investment, you're halfway through the plan, and you've only invested $400 million. I think I know you mentioned in the past you want -- if you don't need to, you want to spend the $1 billion, but it seems like the run rate is a little bit lower than the $1 billion. Is that the right way of thinking about that one? Thank you.

最後，對於 10 億美元的能力投資，您已經完成了計劃的一半，但只投資了 4 億美元。我想我知道你過去提到過你想要——如果你不需要，你想花 10 億美元，但似乎運行率比 10 億美元略低。這是正確的思考方式嗎？謝謝。

Thanks, Nasib. Why don't we take the variances question first, and then I'll come back to the perimeter question as well as the Malaysia one. Ben, you want to get us started on the...

謝謝，納西布。我們為什麼不先討論變異數問題，然後再回到週長問題以及馬來西亞問題。本，你想讓我們開始…

Yes, happy to do that. Hi, Nasib. So you will have seen in our results that setting aside investment in capabilities are business as usual variances of more than halved. And as I said earlier, I'm expecting to return to that historic pre-COVID norm of positive variances within our objective period.

是的，我很樂意這麼做。你好，納西布。因此，您將在我們的結果中看到，對能力的預留投資與正常業務相比差異減少了一半以上。正如我之前所說，我希望在我們的目標期內恢復到 COVID 之前的歷史正向變化常態。

You're broadly right in terms of your quantum. I'm confident we're going to get there. We're continuing to focus on driving underwriting profitability across the business. We're now seeing much improved claims experience, thanks to a lot of management actions. We're continuing to invest, as you know, in capabilities to drive both growth and scale. And to that end, renewal premiums are growing very strongly.

就量子而言，您大體上是正確的。我相信我們一定會實現目標。我們將繼續致力於提高整個業務的承保獲利能力。由於採取了許多管理措施，我們現在看到索賠體驗有了很大改善。如您所知，我們將繼續投資於推動成長和規模的能力。為此，續保費成長非常強勁。

And finally, we have opportunities around cost containment and operating leverage. And one example of that, if you like, is the positive jaws between net of OFSG growth rates and growth -- OFSG growth rates because we are containing central costs, and we'll continue to do that going forward. So I think we've got plenty of opportunity, confident we're going to get back to our historic strong positives in 2027.

最後，我們在成本控制和營運槓桿方面也有機會。如果您願意的話，其中一個例子就是 OFSG 成長率淨值與成長率之間的正相關性 - OFSG 成長率，因為我們控制了中央成本，並且我們將繼續這樣做。因此，我認為我們有很多機會，有信心我們將在 2027 年恢復歷史性的強勁成長。

Thanks, Ben. Nasib, coming to your exits in Africa in terms of the Frankfort market, yes. So that is also a good illustration of the focus that we are employing on deploying shareholder capital where we believe we have a more than fair chance to win and scale and we did see that opportunity in the Frankfort market.

謝謝，本。納西布，就法蘭克福市場而言，你們在非洲有出口，是的。因此，這也很好地說明了我們對部署股東資本的關注，我們相信我們有很大機會獲勝和擴大規模，我們確實在法蘭克福市場看到了這個機會。

The (inaudible) markets are doing well. In fact, in the first half, those markets still continue to grow north of 20%. And as I said, that as the businesses evolve and get more matured in Africa, they provide us the potential to complement the growth profile of the markets and that we have in Asia. And that is something that, again, the management team is quite focused on and driving forward.

（聽不清楚）市場表現良好。事實上，上半年這些市場仍維持著20%以上的成長。正如我所說，隨著非洲業務的發展和成熟，它們為我們提供了補充市場和亞洲成長狀況的潛力。這也是管理團隊非常關注並推動的事情。

To your Malaysian question, yes, so we are happy with the settlement of the claim. We will look at opportunities, but I can't speak too much to it. Needless to say, they have to be commercially viable and in the interest of shareholders. But as I said, I can't comment further on that topic.

對於您提出的馬來西亞問題，是的，我們對索賠的解決感到滿意。我們會尋找機會，但我不能透露太多。不用說，它們必須具有商業可行性並符合股東的利益。但正如我所說，我無法對該主題發表進一步評論。

Okay. Drew, we can go to the next question. Maybe you should just remind the audience how to send questions online in case they've got a bad connection or anything. I've got a couple of questions that have come in already. But perhaps you could just explain to people how they should submit questions online.

好的。德魯，我們可以進入下一個問題了。也許你應該提醒觀眾，萬一遇到網路連線不良或其他情況，如何在線上發送問題。我已經收到了幾個問題。但也許您可以向人們解釋如何在線提交問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Dominic Omahony, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的多明尼克‧奧馬奧尼 (Dominic Omahony)。

Hello. Thank you for taking questions. I've got three, if that's all right.

你好。謝謝您回答問題。如果可以的話，我有三個。

The first is just on the new business and any impact you're seeing at all on appetite for US Dollar-denominated products. I had thought maybe there would be some disruption from some of the geopolitics and the currency movements, actually the MCB business has been very strong. Just any reflections on what you're seeing in terms of appetite?

第一個問題是關於新業務以及它對美元計價產品需求的任何影響。我曾想過，也許地緣政治和貨幣波動會造成一些幹擾，但實際上 MCB 業務一直非常強勁。對於您所看到的食慾情況，您有什麼看法嗎？

And the second is, thank you for the disclosure on the 2027 contribution from the new business. The plus 27% is super strong. I wonder if you might just unpack it a little bit. It's any well ahead of the new business profit growth we're running forward to you, which gives you a small positive as well. But what else is going on in there? Is it that the shape of the service emergency is coming forward in time? Anything else you could do to unpack that would be great.

第二，感謝您揭露新業務對 2027 年的貢獻。27% 的增幅非常強勁。我想知道您是否可以稍微解開一下它。這遠遠超出了我們為您期待的新業務利潤成長，這也為您帶來了一點好處。但那裡還發生了什麼事？是服務緊急狀態的形態正在及時顯現？如果您能做任何其他事情來解決這個問題，那就太好了。

And then the last question is just a clarification really on dividend policy specifically. You've been very clear that, that's -- it's unchanged, but maybe I misunderstood it before. If we just flow through the OFSG net of strain and central items, you have a very, very large increase through 2027. And I think consensus and I have EPS growth in excess of 20% last time I checked. Should I be a bit more nuanced in the way I think about this?

最後一個問題其實是對股利政策的具體澄清。您已經非常清楚地表明了這一點——它沒有改變，但也許我之前誤解了它。如果我們僅透過 OFSG 應變和中心專案網絡，到 2027 年就會出現非常非常大的成長。我認為這是共識，而且我上次檢查時每股收益增長率超過 20%。我是否應該以更細緻的方式思考這個問題？

So for instance, a big contributor is the change in the variances from negative to positive, should I be looking through that? Or actually, would you say no, no, go back to the headline net OFSG and that's a good guide for the dividend. Thank you.

例如，一個很大的因素是方差從負變為正，我應該仔細研究這一點嗎？或者實際上，你會說不，不，回到標題淨 OFSG，這是股息的一個很好的指南。謝謝。

Thanks, Dominic. Let me start with the new business question, specifically on MCV and whether the attraction has faded away in terms of US dollar products. The short answer is no. And we continue to see strong demand. The traffic flows on MCV in the first half grew 10% as compared to same period last year.

謝謝，多米尼克。讓我先從新的業務問題開始，特別是關於 MCV 以及美元產品的吸引力是否已經消失。簡短的回答是「不」。我們繼續看到強勁的需求。上半年MCV客流量較去年同期成長10%。

I think the core demand drivers continue to be intact whether that's the propositions that we offer in Hong Kong, the multicurrency options, including the US Dollar as well as there is a natural attraction for the health and protection infrastructure that Hong Kong has to offer. So we continue to see that demand continue and having kind of seen any of the volatility that you alluded to impact the customer demand coming through in the MCV segment.

我認為核心需求驅動因素持續保持不變，無論是我們在香港提供的主張，還是包括美元在內的多種貨幣選擇，以及香港提供的健康和保護基礎設施的自然吸引力。因此，我們繼續看到需求持續存在，並且看到您提到的任何波動都會影響 MCV 領域的客戶需求。

To your second question, I will flip it in a moment to Ben. So yes, the 27% improvement in terms of cash contribution to 2027 objectives for the cohort of business that we wrote in '24, again, underscores the focus that we are employing on quality new business that accelerates to cash. And I think that's an important differentiator. And this comes on the back of the improvement that we saw last year of 36%.

對於您的第二個問題，我稍後會將其轉給 Ben。是的，我們在 24 年寫下的業務群體在 2027 年目標的現金貢獻方面提高了 27%，這再次強調了我們對加速現金的優質新業務的關注。我認為這是一個重要的區別因素。這是在去年 36% 的改善基礎上所取得的成果。

I'm going to stop there and kind of flip it to Ben to see whether he has any further comments to give you a little bit of color on that and then to the dividend policy.

我要就此打住，然後把話題轉給本，看看他是否還有進一步的評論，可以給你一些關於這一點以及股息政策的信息。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Dom. So pleased really to see the 27% increase on the back of the 36% increase a year ago. This is driven by repricing. It's driven by repricing of some health products, but largely savings products. And the importance of repricing savings products essentially makes this channel agnostic, if you like, it benefits both channels. And it's repricing that's driven a lot of margin improvements last year and this year. And as Anil touched on earlier, is driving margin improvements on the banca channel.

是的。謝謝，阿尼爾。你好，Dom。很高興看到在去年 36% 的成長基礎上，今年又成長了 27%。這是由重新定價推動的。這是由一些健康產品重新定價所致，但主要是儲蓄產品。重新定價儲蓄產品的重要性本質上使得這個管道變得不可知，如果你願意的話，它對兩個管道都有好處。正是重新定價推動了去年和今年利潤率的大幅提高。正如阿尼爾之前提到的，這正在推動銀行通路利潤率的提高。

There's a little bit, Dom, in terms of the changing of the timing of cash flows, but also the absolute level of profits to the shareholder from some of these products. Clearly, we need to look at things carefully to balance shareholder returns and policyholder returns. But thus far, I'm pleased with the progress we've made and we'll continue to look for opportunities for repricing.

多姆，就現金流時間的變化而言，有一點是不同的，但同時也影響了股東從這些產品中獲得的絕對利潤水平。顯然，我們需要仔細考慮如何平衡股東回報和保單持有人的回報。但到目前為止，我對我們的進展感到滿意，我們將繼續尋找重新定價的機會。

I think one of the key things, Dom, to take away is the confidence the repricing has given me in terms of our 2027 OFSG objective. And in short, that means whilst there's opportunities looking forward to continue to improve our business mix, more H&P, more agency. I'm not reliant upon that as a result of the savings repricing that we've done.

我認為，Dom，需要注意的關鍵一點是重新定價讓我對 2027 年 OFSG 目標充滿信心。簡而言之，這意味著雖然有機會繼續改善我們的業務組合，但更多的是 H&P，更多的是代理商。由於我們已經進行了儲蓄重新定價，所以我並不依賴於此。

To your question on dividend policy, I think the short answer is, yes, in terms of the look through to your specific point, really, you should view that guidance in the context of the total return proposition that we set out. So in short, growing annual net capital generation supports a minimum level of growth in total ordinary dividend per share across '25, '26 and '27 and then the $1.1 billion of additional returns over and above that.

對於您關於股息政策的問題，我認為簡短的回答是，是的，就您的具體觀點而言，您確實應該在我們提出的總回報主張的背景下看待該指導。簡而言之，不斷增長的年度淨資本產生支持了 25、26 和 27 年每股普通股股息總額的最低增長水平，以及在此基礎上的 11 億美元額外回報。

There is no change to the group's dividend policy. And in a nutshell, that's to grow broadly in line with net OFSG over the medium term. So we've looked through the upswing, if you like, you get in the acceleration of capital generation as a result of variance switching to positive in the interest of a prudent and sustainable dividend path. That guidance we've given in terms of growth rate is intended to build on the 13% the Board declared last year.

集團的股利政策沒有改變。簡而言之，從中期來看，這將與淨 OFSG 大致同步成長。因此，我們已經研究過上升趨勢，如果你願意的話，你會看到，為了謹慎和可持續的股息路徑，方差轉為正值，從而加速資本生成。我們給出的成長率指導旨在以董事會去年宣布的 13% 為基礎。

Okay. Thanks. Drew, should we go to the next question, please?

好的。謝謝。德魯，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？

Andrew Crean, Autonomous.

安德魯克里恩，自治。

Thanks for that. Coming back to a question, which I don't think you answered, which was -- what is the timing of the remaining $0.6 billion of investment in the business as to how that hits '25, '26 and '27 was 1 question.

謝謝。回到一個問題，我認為你沒有回答，那就是——剩餘的 6 億美元投資於該業務的時間是什麼時候，以及這筆投資將在 25、26 和 27 年達到什麼程度，這是一個問題。

The second question is around the active agents. Could you say what the fall in the active agent numbers was in the first half '25? And also what you expect the growth rate in active agents to be in '26 and '27, please?

第二個問題是關於活性劑的。能否說一下 2025 年上半年活躍代理商數量下降了多少？另外，您預計 26 年和 27 年活躍代理商的成長率是多少？

Thanks, Andrew. So let me give you a little bit of color on the $1 billion investment program that we announced two years back when we announced a new strategy. So as I mentioned previously, we've invested $400 million to expand our distribution, to enhance our customer experience capabilities, to modernize our technology platform as well as we successfully have now been able to stand up the health business. And that's kind of putting us in a position of strength, both in terms of growing our health business, Andrew, but also being able to successfully mitigate some of the challenges that we are seeing on account of the regulatory changes that are impacting the health business.

謝謝，安德魯。因此，請容許我向您簡單介紹我們兩年前宣布的新策略時宣布的 10 億美元投資計畫。正如我之前提到的，我們已經投資了 4 億美元來擴大我們的分銷範圍，增強我們的客戶體驗能力，使我們的技術平台現代化，並且我們現在已經成功地建立了健康業務。安德魯，這讓我們處於有利地位，不僅在發展我們的健康業務方面，而且還能夠成功緩解因影響健康業務的監管變化而帶來的一些挑戰。

You could expect another $100 million to $120 million by the end of this year. And for 2026, we are expecting to invest another about $200 million to $250 million. And that is really what we wanted to aim for because the majority of the investments we wanted to book in by 2026, so that you then kind of start to see the flow-through impact in '27 and beyond '27.

預計到今年底，還將有 1 億至 1.2 億美元的收入。到 2026 年，我們預計將再投資約 2 億至 2.5 億美元。這正是我們想要實現的目標，因為我們希望大部分投資能夠在 2026 年之前完成，這樣你就可以在 2027 年及以後開始看到其影響。

As we get into '27, you will see some reductions kind of come through. But as I said, at all times, we are very conscious of the fact that we are building capabilities that are going to give us enduring returns over a period of time. And to the extent that we can meet our 2027 objectives more efficiently then that kind of opens up optionalities for us.

當我們進入 27 年時，你會看到一些減少的跡象。但正如我所說，我們始終清楚地意識到，我們正在建立的能力將在一段時間內為我們帶來持久的回報。如果我們能夠更有效地實現 2027 年的目標，那麼這將為我們帶來更多選擇。

In terms of your active agents, our active agents was down 7% year-on-year. As I look to '26 and '27, we are looking at a growth rate of about 7% to 10% is what we would kind of gone for on a year-on-year basis. And by the way, as I said, based on the measures that we have taken, we expect that to improve in the second half of this year going into '26 and then further going into '27.

就您的活躍代理商而言，我們的活躍代理商年減了 7%。展望 26 年和 27 年，我們預期年增長率約為 7% 至 10%。順便說一句，正如我所說，根據我們採取的措施，我們預計今年下半年、2026 年和 2027 年的情況將進一步改善。

Okay. Drew, I'm going to go to the online questions I've had, and it's from William Hawkins at KBW. It has two questions. One is -- it got two parts to it.

好的。德魯，我要回答我在網路上遇到的問題，這些問題來自 KBW 的威廉霍金斯。它有兩個問題。一是——它由兩個部分組成。

The first part is, is there any seasonality in terms of the split between agency and banca that we expect for 2025, given that there was some seasonality in 2024? And therefore, will the 2025 H1 figure change in any way as you go through to the rest of the year? And then secondly, are there any particular key drivers by market or product or distribution channel that will influence the growth momentum from now until the end of the target period?

第一部分是，鑑於 2024 年存在一些季節性，我們預計 2025 年代理商和銀行之間的劃分是否存在季節性？那麼，隨著時間推移，2025 年上半年的數據會發生哪些變化呢？其次，市場、產品或分銷管道中是否存在任何特定的關鍵驅動因素會影響從現在到目標期結束的成長動能？

And then the finance question, which is how do you think about the remittance ratio, and are there any ways that you feel that you can affect the remittance ratio? Are there any particular actions that you're imagining that you're going to be able to undertake. So those are the two questions from William.

然後是財務問題，即您如何看待匯款率，以及您認為有什麼方法可以影響匯款率？您是否想像自己能夠採取什麼特別的行動？這就是威廉提出的兩個問題。

Thanks for those questions. And let me start with the seasonality question. So again, the short answer is yes. We typically kind of see first half skewed towards Bancassurance. And as we kind of transition to the second, the SKU kind of changes more towards agency. We saw that last year. I don't believe you're going to kind of see a different trend this year.

謝謝你提出這些問題。我先從季節性問題開始。所以，簡短的回答是肯定的。我們通常認為上半年偏向銀保。當我們過渡到第二種方式時，SKU 會更多地向代理方向轉變。我們去年就看到了這一點。我不相信今年你會看到不同的趨勢。

And again, as I said, to my mind, that's kind of unique about us because we have scale both on Bancassurance and on agency. And importantly, we have been able to demonstrate that we can deliver respectable margins on Bancassurance, including the 6 percentage points that we saw in terms of margin improvements on Bancassurance in the first half of this year.

正如我所說，在我看來，這是我們的獨特之處，因為我們在銀保和代理方面都有規模。重要的是，我們已經能夠證明我們可以在銀保業務上實現可觀的利潤率，包括今年上半年銀保業務利潤率提高 6 個百分點。

Our key drivers, yes, there is both distribution as well as new product ideas. Just to kind of illustrate one example of that, I did refer earlier that we still -- we haven't still activated the Bank Sharia Indonesia partnership fully. Bank Sharia Indonesia is one of the largest bank and the largest Sharia bank in Indonesia. 230 million Muslims clearly underpenetrated. We see that as a significant opportunity to drive sustained momentum in an important market and a strategic market like Indonesia.

是的，我們的關鍵驅動力是分銷和新產品理念。為了說明這一點，我之前提到過，我們還沒有完全啟動與印尼伊斯蘭教法銀行的合作關係。印尼伊斯蘭教銀行是印尼最大的銀行之一，也是印尼最大的伊斯蘭教銀行。 2.3億穆斯林顯然對其服務不足。我們認為這是推動印尼等重要市場和策略市場持續發展的重要機會。

Likewise, I did make reference on the fact that we are focused on driving quality agency recruitment, and we are again seeing some good traction under our proved venture program, which now contributes to 7% of the total new recruits. And as we keep rolling out these two different markets, I believe there is an opportunity for us to improve the mix of the quality recruits.

同樣，我確實提到了我們專注於推動優質代理商招聘的事實，並且我們再次看到在我們經過驗證的風險投資計劃下取得了良好的進展，該計劃目前佔新招聘人員總數的 7%。隨著我們不斷開拓這兩個不同的市場，我相信我們有機會改善優質招募人員的組合。

And I think that's important for us because the productivity of these agents are to the tune of about 4x to 5x as compared to agents that don't come through this program. And I think that's, again, going to be an important driver of growth as we kind of think about the second half as well as and 27%.

我認為這對我們很重要，因為這些代理商的生產力比沒有參加該計劃的代理商高出 4 到 5 倍。我認為，當我們考慮下半年以及 27% 時，這將成為成長的重要驅動力。

And again, on product ideas, again, made a reference specifically in Singapore. We did launch multiple products focused on health and protection and high net worth. We did see the traction, as we kind of closed out the second quarter. And we believe that, that traction will continue into the third quarter. And that's why my confidence that Singapore will come back in the second half of this year.

再次，關於產品理念，再次特別提到了新加坡。我們確實推出了多款專注於健康和保護以及高淨值的產品。當我們結束第二季度時，我們確實看到了牽引力。我們相信，這種勢頭將持續到第三季。這就是我有信心新加坡將在今年下半年復甦的原因。

And likewise, we have new products in Indonesia. We have new products in Hong Kong. And again, as I said, it takes a little bit of time to get to maturity, but remain confident that both on distribution and product, we have enough ideas to be able to drive our momentum forward.

同樣，我們在印尼也有新產品。我們在香港有新產品。正如我所說，成熟需要一點時間，但我仍然相信，無論是在分銷還是產品方面，我們都有足夠的想法來推動我們向前發展。

I'm going to go to Ben on remittance ratio.

我要去 Ben 討論匯款率。

So in terms of -- hi, William. In terms of how we think about the total return proposition and the key levers to drive that. I mean, ultimately, it comes back to focus on shareholder value creation and accelerating holding company free cash flows. So the building blocks being, of course, quality new business management of the in-force book and capital discipline, exactly the same building blocks that I expect to accelerate our return on embedded value.

所以就——嗨，威廉。關於我們如何看待總回報主張以及推動該主張的關鍵槓桿。我的意思是，最終，它又回到了關注股東價值創造和加速控股公司自由現金流。因此，基礎當然是有效帳簿和資本紀律的優質新業務管理，這與我期望加速我們內含價值回報的基礎完全相同。

Once you've used those building blocks and allowing for that operating range, as we've said, 70% of that capital generation comes to (inaudible). The returns are then the majority of this flow. And as I said earlier, this is an enduring framework. We're a double-digit business. Sustainability is important to us. So I think really, they are the key drivers.

一旦你使用了這些建構模組並允許該操作範圍，正如我們所說的，70% 的資本產生將用於（聽不清楚）。回報是這流量的大部分。正如我之前所說，這是一個持久的框架。我們是一家兩位數的企業。永續性對我們很重要。所以我認為它們確實是關鍵驅動因素。

Thanks. Drew, shall we go to the next question? Thank you.

謝謝。德魯，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？謝謝。

Michelle Ma, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Michelle Ma。

Thank you management for giving me this opportunity. This is Michelle Ma from Citibank. So congratulations on the very solid set of results.

感謝管理層給我這個機會。我是花旗銀行的 Michelle Ma。恭喜您取得如此堅實的成果。

So my first question is about Hong Kong. So Hong Kong in the first half growth rate about 15%, and it's already achieved double-digit in the first quarter. So we tried to back out the second quarter trend. It seems like it's around like something. It's a little bit against our observation on the ground because the whole Hong Kong life insurance industry is really booming in the second quarter.

我的第一個問題是關於香港的。香港上半年的成長率約為15%，第一季已達到兩位數。因此我們試圖扭轉第二季度的趨勢。好像周圍有東西。這與我們的實地觀察有點相悖，因為整個香港人壽保險業在第二季度確實蓬勃發展。

So just want to understand, is there any like technical reasons behind this a little bit lower than my expectation growth for Hong Kong. Is that because the underwriting process takes time and some of the June policies maybe will be posted in July. So yes, the first question is I want to check on the Hong Kong second quarter trend.

所以我想了解一下，香港的成長速度略低於我的預期，背後是否有一些技術原因。這是因為承保過程需要時間，一些六月的保單可能會在七月公佈。是的，第一個問題是我想查看香港第二季的趨勢。

And also after the change of illustrative rate cap, how's the momentum in the third quarter? So have we experienced some notable drop in the demand, especially for MCV business? And how is the new product margin versus the pre-change merchant. This is the first question.

另外，在說明性利率上限改變之後，第三季的動能如何？那麼，我們是否經歷了需求的顯著下降，尤其是 MCV 業務的需求下降？新產品的利潤率與變革前的商家相比如何？這是第一個問題。

The second question is to John. So Mr. John joined the company, I think about three months of time. So I just want to get your initial thoughts on your view how you compare pool with your previous industry experiences. And according to your observation, what's the strength of pool and what are the areas you believe you will particularly focus on? Thank you.

第二個問題是問約翰的。所以約翰先生加入公司，我想大概有三個月的時間。所以我只是想了解一下您對泳池與您之前的行業經驗進行比較的初步想法。根據您的觀察，撞球運動的優勢是什麼？您認為撞球運動將特別關注哪些領域？謝謝。

Thanks, Michelle. Allow me to first answer the Hong Kong question, and you had multiple questions within the Hong Kong question, and then I'll go to John and ask him to provide his perspective and his observations.

謝謝，米歇爾。請容許我先回答香港問題，你們對香港問題有多個疑問，然後我會去找約翰，請他提供他的觀點和觀察。

So going back to where I started on Hong Kong, I like the shape of our Hong Kong business. I like the balance between agency and bancassurance. And remember, Michelle, 90% of the mix on new business profit in Hong Kong is delivered through agency and bancassurance, and that's important for us.

回到我開始談論香港的地方，我喜歡我們香港業務的現狀。我喜歡代理和銀保之間的平衡。米歇爾，請記住，香港 90% 的新業務利潤是透過代理商和銀保實現的，這對我們很重要。

Why? Because it allows us to control the customer experience. Importantly, it allows us to control the margins, which improved by 1 percentage point. And as I said, I also like the balance between the domestic and MCV, which was one of the key objectives that I had to be able to provide the counterbalance on the strength that we have on MCV by boosting our volumes in the domestic segment.

為什麼？因為它使我們能夠控制客戶體驗。重要的是，它使我們能夠控制利潤率，利潤率提高了 1 個百分點。正如我所說，我也喜歡國內市場和 MCV 之間的平衡，這是我的關鍵目標之一，我必須能夠透過提高國內市場的銷售量來平衡我們在 MCV 上的優勢。

You're right to point out, and your math is correct, that our quarter two new business profit improved to 20%. And there is one important factor that I would like to leave with you and we mentioned that previously, is that our focus continues to remain on quality new business that converts to cash on an accelerated basis. And towards that, overall, the cohort of the business that we wrote in '24 -- '25, sorry, contributed to greater than 27% as compared to the cohort of business that we wrote in the first half of 2024. So I think that balance is important for us and something that we intend to keep as we go into the second half as well as into 2026.

您指出得對，而且您的計算也正確，我們第二季的新業務利潤提高到了 20%。我想與大家分享一個重要因素，我們之前提到過，那就是我們的重點將繼續放在加速轉化為現金的優質新業務上。整體而言，我們在 24 年至 25 年期間開展的業務與我們在 2024 年上半年開展的業務相比，貢獻率超過了 27%。因此，我認為平衡對我們來說很重要，我們打算在進入下半年以及 2026 年時保持這種平衡。

The illustration caps, you're right. I think it's a healthy step and the step in the right direction by the regulators. And again, we haven't kind of seen impact of that come through as we've kind of transitioned to quarter three. And on product margins, as I mentioned earlier, we don't see an impact as well in the second half. Our product margins are -- continue to be quite robust. And as I said, it improved by 1 percentage point in the first half of this year.

插圖上限，你說得對。我認為這是監管機構邁出的健康一步，也是朝著正確方向邁出的一步。而且，當我們進入第三季時，我們還沒有看到這種影響的顯現。至於產品利潤率，正如我之前提到的，我們在下半年也沒有看到太大的影響。我們的產品利潤率仍然相當高。正如我所說，今年上半年這一數字提高了 1 個百分點。

I'm going to kind of quickly turn to John. John, any comments that you might have?

我要快速轉向約翰。約翰，您有什麼評論嗎？

Thanks, Anil. First of all, I won't comment on our competitor, but I want to come to potential what I think. First of all, we have very strong brand in Asia. And we have one of the largest agency in Asia, second largest MDRT. So that's the three foundations that build up.

謝謝，阿尼爾。首先，我不會對我們的競爭對手發表評論，但我想談談我的想法。首先，我們在亞洲擁有非常強大的品牌。我們是亞洲最大的代理商之一，也是第二大 MDRT 機構。這就是建立起來的三個基礎。

But as you know, for agency, we are not looking for magic. We're looking for basics. So what we're going to continue to drive is driving further productivity further activation ratio. We're going to continue to drive our MDRTs. And then we're going to continue to drive quality recruitment. So I'm very, very excited in the market now very low penetration so it means a lot of opportunity for us to grow. In the meantime, our customers still prefer a face-to-face agency to -- as a choice of purchasing. So that's the huge opportunity for us.

但正如你所知，對於代理商來說，我們並不尋求魔法。我們正在尋找基礎知識。因此，我們將繼續努力提高生產力和活化率。我們將繼續推動我們的百萬圓桌會議 (MDRT)。然後我們將繼續推動高品質的招募。因此，我對目前的市場滲透率非常低感到非常興奮，這意味著我們有很大的發展機會。同時，我們的客戶仍然更喜歡透過面對面的代理商進行購買。這對我們來說是一個巨大的機會。

Michelle, just one additional comment to your earlier question on Hong Kong. I should have mentioned that while we have significant strength in bancassurance and agency, we are also looking at building our relationship with quality set of brokers. But at the same time, also being very watchful on some of the regulatory changes that are likely to impact the broker channel. So for example, the referral fee cap, that's likely to get in force as of October 1 as well as the spreading of commission that's likely to come in force in Jan 1. I thought I would probably add that to just give you a little bit of extra color.

米歇爾，對於你之前關於香港的問題，我只想補充一點。我應該提到，雖然我們在銀保和代理方面擁有顯著優勢，但我們也在尋求與優質經紀人建立關係。但同時，也要密切注意一些可能影響經紀管道的監管變化。例如，推薦費上限可能於 10 月 1 日生效，佣金分攤也可能於 1 月 1 日生效。我想我可能會添加它來給你一點額外的顏色。

Thank you, Anil. Drew, I'm just conscious of time. We've got a few more questions to come. Maybe we'll go to the next one online, please. Sorry, on the conference call.

謝謝你，阿尼爾。德魯，我只是意識到時間。我們還有幾個問題要問。也許我們可以在線上進行下一次討論。抱歉，正在電話會議中。

Andrew Sinclair, Bank of America.

美國銀行的安德魯·辛克萊。

Thank you. Three for me, please. First on capital management. You talked about the potential additional returns in excess of 200%. But it looks to me that even with what you've announced today, even if the dividend grows well in excess of 10%, you're still going to be miles above the 200% top end of that range for the foreseeable future. So what is the time scale and plan to get to that 175% to 200% range that you said is the right place to operate?

謝謝。請給我三份。首先是資本管理。您談到了超過 200% 的潛在額外回報。但在我看來，即使按照你們今天宣布的計劃，即使股息成長率遠遠超過 10%，在可預見的未來，你們的股息成長率仍將遠高於該範圍的 200% 的最高值。那麼，達到您所說的 175% 到 200% 的正確營運範圍的時間尺度和計劃是什麼？

Second, just on the new business margin seasonality. I think you said it should improve kind of quarter-on-quarter through the year, just any color in any particular regions where you think there should be material changes in margins or we shouldn't expect. Any margin improvement through the rest of '25 or just any color there?

第二，僅就新業務利潤率的季節性而言。我認為您說過它應該在全年各個季度中有所改善，只是您認為任何特定地區的利潤率應該發生重大變化，或者我們不應該期待。25 年剩餘時間內利潤率是否有所提高，或只是顏色有變化嗎？

And third was just on Mainland China. Good to see the mix evolving towards power products. Just can you give us a little bit of a reminder of where we are kind of on the back book of, I guess, nonpar? Where is the (inaudible) per se reinvestment rate and what's the average guarantee on that book today would be helpful. Thank you very much.

第三個是中國大陸。很高興看到產品組合朝電力產品方向發展。您能否稍微提醒一下我們，我們在後面的書上的位置是什麼樣的，我想，是非標準桿的？（聽不清楚）本身的再投資率是多少以及今天該帳簿的平均擔保額是多少，這將會很有幫助。非常感謝。

Thanks, Andy. Could have kind to flip it to Ben. And then if there are any additional comments that I might have, I'll come on the back of that.

謝謝，安迪。可以把它翻給本。然後，如果我還有其他意見，我會再補充。

Maybe -- hi, Andy. Maybe I'll go in reverse order, if you like.

也許——嗨，安迪。如果您願意的話，也許我會以相反的順序進行。

I think your third question was on China. Actually, CPL used to sell a lot of power business in China many, many years ago. So when you look at the general account assets and there's that snapshot slide in the appendix to my own slides on that, about 40% of that actually backs power business.

我想你的第三個問題是關於中國的。事實上，CPL 多年前就在中國銷售過許多電力業務。因此，當您查看一般帳戶資產時，我會在我自己幻燈片的附錄中找到快照幻燈片，其中約 40％ 實際上支援電力業務。

In terms of cost of liabilities, and where we are today, both actual and expected returns are sufficient to cover cost of liabilities as you'll appreciate, because it's par, you can vary that cost of liability through time. The business has done a lot of repricing over the years.

就負債成本而言，就我們目前的情況而言，實際回報和預期回報都足以涵蓋負債成本，正如您所理解的，因為它是平價的，所以您可以隨時間改變負債成本。多年來，該企業已多次重新定價。

And I think backing up from a capital management perspective, again, confident that there'll be no need to put any further contributions into CPL in 2025. And they are continuing to look at actions to drive further resilience on the balance sheet on top of derisking and we were pleased that they've been recently awarded status to enable them to issue perpetual debt locally, and that will count to their core and comprehensive solvency.

我認為從資本管理的角度來看，我們有信心在 2025 年不再需要投入任何資金給 CPL 。他們正在繼續研究採取行動，在降低風險的基礎上進一步增強資產負債表的彈性，我們很高興他們最近獲得了在當地發行永久性債務的地位，這將有助於提高他們的核心和綜合償付能力。

On margins and ability to drive margins going forward, is basically the four points I alluded to earlier. There is, I think, to your point, a seasonality thing. We typically see a greater proportion of bancassurance in the mix. Bancassurance having a very healthy margin and improving year-on-year. but still lower than agency.

關於利潤率以及未來推動利潤率成長的能力，基本上就是我之前提到的四點。我認為，正如您所說，這是一個季節性問題。我們通常會看到銀保在其中所佔的比例較大。銀保利潤率非常健康，逐年提高，但仍低於代理商的利潤率。

So as we progress through the year, I think you'll start to see a more positive channel mix come through that will benefit margins on top of the repricing actions we've taken. And of course, as I said, there's opportunity on the health and protection side as well. We've been pleased with growth in the health space, 16% compound 2024 through 2027. So we'll continue to focus strongly on that.

因此，隨著我們今年的進展，我認為您將開始看到更積極的管道組合，這將在我們採取的重新定價行動的基礎上提高利潤率。當然，正如我所說，健康和保護方面也存在著機會。我們對健康領域的成長感到滿意，2024 年至 2027 年的複合成長率為 16%。因此我們將繼續重點關注這一點。

In terms of, I think, your first question then was capital management and potential returns in excess of 20%. And I mean as you've seen, we've not changed that target corridor of 175 to 200 and that reflects both risk appetite and the nature of our business. I'm expecting to operate slightly above the upper end of that on the back of today's announcement. And there'll be a practicality element to this as well, Andy, in terms of needing to earn stress and remit surplus up to group to fund the shareholder commitment. So there's always an element of timing.

我認為，您的第一個問題是資本管理和超過 20% 的潛在回報。我的意思是，如您所見，我們沒有改變 175 到 200 的目標區間，這反映了風險偏好和我們業務的性質。根據今天的公告，我預計操作將略高於該上限。安迪，這也有一個實用因素，即需要賺取壓力並將盈餘匯給集團以資助股東承諾。所以總是存在著時間因素。

In terms of the 20% free surplus ratio review trigger, and that's something the Board will regularly review. And what they do there is to look at sort of capital over and above that ratio over the medium term, and we'll think to opportunities to reinvest, but look to market conditions as well. I think today was about returns from flow. In terms of returns from stock obvious example will, of course, be the IPO corporate event.

就 20% 自由盈餘比率審查觸發因素而言，這是董事會將定期審查的內容。他們所做的就是專注於中期超過該比率的資本，我們會考慮再投資的機會，但也會關注市場狀況。我認為今天是關於流程的回報。就股票報酬而言，明顯的例子當然是 IPO 企業事件。

Thank you, Drew. We've just got two more questions, I think, if you just bring them in.

謝謝你，德魯。我想我們還有兩個問題，如果你提出來的話。

Abid Hussain, Panmure Liberum.

阿比德‧侯賽因 (Abid Hussain)，《自由報》。

Hello, everyone. I've still got three questions left, I think.

大家好。我想我還有三個問題。

The first one is on management actions. So really good to see that the new business profit growth margins improving. And it feels like you've delivered that despite all of the businesses yet to fire on all cylinders. I think you called out some of the actions that are left to take, but I'm just wondering if you can sort of call out the actions or any additional actions that you have to take but specifically the impact that, that will have on the margin improvement or scale or both of new business going forward. So that's the first question on management actions.

第一個是關於管理行動。很高興看到新業務利潤成長率不斷提高。儘管所有業務尚未全力以赴，但感覺您已經實現了這一目標。我認為您提到了一些尚待採取的行動，但我只是想知道您是否可以指出您必須採取的行動或任何其他行動，特別是這些行動對未來新業務的利潤率提高或規模或兩者的影響。這是關於管理行動的第一個問題。

And the second question is on the net OFSG. Good to see that the cash conversion from new business is improving. And so, I think we should expect faster growth in the net operating free surplus generation number relative to the gross number. But I'm just wondering what sort of delta are you expecting between the gross and the net growth, is it sort of a material delta or is there something else that we need to consider in that mix?

第二個問題是關於網路 OFSG 的。很高興看到新業務的現金轉換率正在提高。因此，我認為我們應該預期淨營運自由盈餘發電量相對於總量的成長速度更快。但我只是想知道您預計總成長和淨成長之間會有什麼樣的差異，這是一種物質差異嗎，還是我們需要考慮的其他因素？

And then the final question is on capital distributions. I suppose what share price would you stop a share buyback? At the current share price, it makes sense to me that you continue with the share buyback. I think you're still trading below embedded value and sort of whichever the metrics you're focusing on. But if the stock moves up another 50%, it's moved up some 50% year-to-date, but if it moves up over your time frame, another 50%. Does that shift the thinking?

最後一個問題是關於資本分配。我想你會在什麼股價下停止股票回購？以目前的股價來看，繼續回購股票對我來說是合理的。我認為您的交易價格仍然低於內含價值以及您所關注的任何指標。但如果股價再上漲 50%，那麼今年迄今為止它就上漲了約 50%，但如果股價在你的時間範圍內上漲，那麼它還會再上漲 50%。這能改變你的想法嗎？

Thanks, Abid. So Amid, let me start with the first question. And I'll flip it to Ben for the second and the third one.

謝謝，阿比德。那麼阿米德，讓我從第一個問題開始。我將把它翻給 Ben，讓他看第二個和第三個。

So on management actions, clearly, pleased, right? As you can tell, this is a big focus area for the global executive team to be able to drive the right quality, and towards that, I mentioned it, Ben referred that as well, some of the repricing actions that we have taken both the gross savings and health and protection products are starting to flow through. Interestingly, both in the agency channel as well as in the bancassurance channel.

那麼對於管理行動，顯然，感到滿意，對嗎？正如您所看到的，這是全球執行團隊關注的一個重點領域，能夠推動正確的質量，並且朝著這個方向，我提到過，本也提到，我們採取的一些重新定價行動，包括總儲蓄和健康和保護產品，都開始發揮作用。有趣的是，代理商通路和銀保通路都是如此。

I think if you look forward, just to kind of keep things simple, as we see greater traction on agency and agency being higher margin than bancassurance, that would be a good driver. And if we get a better balance between or I should say, a higher proportion of agency versus bancassurance, that will have a knock-on impact on health and protection mix as well. So there is where the engines or margin improvements lie. And that's really what we are trying to kind of focus on, in addition to some of the repricing actions that we alluded to in the previous part of the conversation.

我認為，如果你向前看，只是為了讓事情保持簡單，因為我們看到代理商的吸引力更大，而且代理商的利潤率高於銀保，這將是一個很好的驅動力。如果我們在代理商和銀保之間取得更好的平衡，或者說，提高代理商和銀保的比例，這也會對健康和保障組合產生連鎖影響。這就是引擎或利潤率改進所在。除了我們在前面的談話中提到的一些重新定價行動之外，這正是我們試圖關注的重點。

Ben, net OFSG and capital distribution.

Ben，淨 OFSG 和資本分配。

So in terms of net OFSG, is, yes, I'm pleased with the geared effect that you see coming through. In short, that represents lower growth rates in central costs. And as I mentioned earlier, we're going to continue to contain central costs. Of course, you've got in this period, a lower growth in terms of new business strain versus that gross OFSG.

因此，就淨 OFSG 而言，是的，我對您看到的齒輪效應感到滿意。簡而言之，這代表著中央成本的成長率較低。正如我之前提到的，我們將繼續控制核心成本。當然，在此期間，新業務量相對於 OFSG 總量的成長較低。

When you project forward, I guess, in terms of the building blocks, there's obviously the acceleration of the gross number to our objective. Required capital I'd guide you to early double-digit growth on strain, giving you the other components and that's going to increase broadly in proportion to our new business volumes. And I'd guide you to H1 '25 strain as a percent of APE to being a pretty sensible jumping off point. And then, as I say, central costs remaining fairly flat.

我想，當你從建造模組的角度進行展望時，總數顯然會加速達到我們的目標。所需資本我將指導您在壓力下實現早期兩位數的增長，為您提供其他組成部分，並且這將與我們的新業務量成比例地大幅增加。我會指導您將 H1 '25 應變作為 APE 的百分比作為一個相當合理的起點。然後，正如我所說，中央成本保持相當平穩。

The third question on capital distribution.

第三個問題關於資本分配。

I think we're a long way off that.

我認為我們距離這個目標還很遙遠。

Okay. Thank you, Drew. Let's go to the last question for this afternoon.

好的。謝謝你，德魯。讓我們來討論今天下午的最後一個問題。

Thomas Wang, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的托馬斯·王（Thomas Wang）。

Thank you for accommodating me for this. A couple of questions, hopefully short ones.

感謝您對我的照顧。有幾個問題，希望是簡短的。

Firstly, sort of first half, agency and BP, I think, is up 4%, mainly so growth was mainly driven from bancassurance. I think Hong Kong agency is up double digits. So I just want to understand which market kind of showing kind of weakness in agency China in the first half.

首先，我認為上半年代理商和 BP 成長了 4%，主要是因為成長主要來自銀行保險。我認為香港代理機構的成長率是兩位數。所以我只是想要了解上半年中國代理市場中哪些市場表現出了疲軟跡象。

The second point on the -- I think I'm a look at page 52 all of this presentation, the required capital actually up about -- looks like about 10% in the first half. I just want to understand how you -- how we should think about this record capital growth over the next couple of years? A 10% just a six-month period looks relatively fast, which might put some constraint to your free surplus, given the 200% ratio. So any color here would be helpful. Thanks.

第二點——我想我看一下第 52 頁的整個演示文稿，所需資本實際上增加了——看起來上半年增加了約 10%。我只是想了解您—我們該如何看待未來幾年創紀錄的資本成長？僅僅六個月的 10% 看起來相對較快，考慮到 200% 的比例，這可能會對您的自由盈餘造成一些限制。所以這裡的任何顏色都會有幫助。謝謝。

Thanks, Thomas. So going back to the agency point, and as I mentioned earlier, you can't kind of paint agency performance with a single brush. We believe that Hong Kong, Indonesia, Singapore stable to growing. And again, you can see the quality of that business as well as some of the actions kind of result into some high-quality outputs for us on agency.

謝謝，托馬斯。所以回到代理點，正如我之前提到的，你不能用單一的筆觸來描繪代理績效。我們相信香港、印尼、新加坡將維持穩定成長。再次，您可以看到該業務的品質以及某些行動為我們代理商帶來了一些高品質的產出。

I think the markets that have been challenging for us have been Malaysia and Vietnam on account of some of the industry-led changes that's impacting the entire sector. And you can see that more broadly reflected in the entire industry. And we have, again, action plans and feel confident that we will be able to convert that momentum. It will take us a couple of quarters, specifically in these two markets of Malaysia and Vietnam.

我認為對我們而言最具挑戰性的市場是馬來西亞和越南，因為一些產業主導的變化正在影響整個產業。你可以更廣泛地看到這在整個行業中得到體現。我們再次製定了行動計劃，並有信心能夠轉變這一勢頭。這將需要幾個季度的時間，特別是在馬來西亞和越南這兩個市場。

In China, we have a change management program that I alluded to. We are striving very hard to make agency complement the strong growth that we continue to witness on the bancassurance channel. We are starting to see some green shoots. So for example, our active agents in China was up 6%. Our recruitment was up by north and that kind of gives us the confidence that we are on the right track because, again, China continues to be an important focus area as we manage the balance between quality growth and prudent risk management.

在中國，我們有一個我提到的變革管理計畫。我們正在竭盡全力使代理商補充我們在銀保頻道上持續見證的強勁成長。我們開始看到一些復甦的跡象。例如，我們在中國的活躍代理商數量增加了 6%。我們的招募是在北方進行的，這讓我們有信心我們走在正確的軌道上，因為在我們管理高品質成長和審慎風險管理之間的平衡時，中國仍然是一個重要的關注地區。

I'm going to stop there and go to Ben for the last question.

我要在這裡停下來，然後請本回答最後一個問題。

Yes. Thanks, Anil. Hi, Thomas. So on required capital growth, when you think about modeling going forward, I suggest you use very early double-digit growth rates.

是的。謝謝，阿尼爾。你好，托馬斯。因此，對於所需資本成長，當您考慮未來建模時，我建議您使用非常早期的兩位數成長率。

I think that takes all the questions. I just -- Anil, you want to just do a closing comment, and then we'll (inaudible).

我想這可以解答所有問題。我只是──阿尼爾，你想做個總結發言，然後我們（聽不清楚）。

Cool. No, firstly, thank you for joining us, and thank you for the questions. Ben and I are going to be on road shortly. So we will be seeing many of you in person, and we look forward to continuing the conversations. But thank you very much for joining us today.

涼爽的。不，首先，感謝您加入我們，也感謝您的提問。本和我很快就要上路了。因此，我們將親自見到你們中的許多人，我們期待繼續對話。但非常感謝您今天加入我們。

Thanks very much. Drew, you can close the call.

非常感謝。德魯，你可以結束通話了。

Thank you. Well, that concludes today's call. You may now disconnect your line.

謝謝。好了，今天的通話到此結束。現在您可以斷開線路了。