Packaging Corp of America (PKG) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Packaging Corporation of America third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加美國包裝公司2025年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）請注意，本次活動正在錄影。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Mark Kowlzan. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給馬克‧考爾贊先生。請繼續。

Thank you, Alessia. Good morning everyone, and thank you for participating in Packaging Corporation of America's Third Quarter 2025 Earnings Release Conference Call. Again, I'm Mark Kowlzan, Chairman and CEO of PCA. And with me on the call today is Thomas Hassfurther, President; and Kent Pflederer, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，阿萊西亞。各位早安，感謝各位參加美國包裝公司2025年第三季財報發布電話會議。再次介紹一下，我是PCA的董事長兼執行長馬克·科沃贊。今天和我一起參加電話會議的還有總裁湯瑪斯‧哈斯弗瑟，以及財務長肯特‧普夫萊德勒。

I'll begin the call, as usual, with an overview of our third quarter results, and then I'll turn the call over to Tom and Kent, who will provide further details. And then after that, I'll wrap things up, and we'd be glad to take any questions. Yesterday, we reported third quarter net income of $227 million or $2.51 per share. Excluding the special items, third quarter 2025 net income was $247 million or $2.73 per share compared to the third quarter of 2024 net income of $239 million or $2.65 per share. Third quarter net sales were $2.3 billion in 2025 and $2.2 billion in 2024.

我將像往常一樣，首先概述我們第三季的業績，然後把電話交給湯姆和肯特，他們將提供更多細節。最後，我會總結一下，我們很樂意回答大家的問題。昨天，我們公佈了第三季淨利潤為 2.27 億美元，即每股 2.51 美元。剔除特殊項目後，2025 年第三季淨利為 2.47 億美元，即每股 2.73 美元，而 2024 年第三季淨利為 2.39 億美元，即每股 2.65 美元。2025 年第三季淨銷售額為 23 億美元，2024 年第三季淨銷售額為 22 億美元。

Total company EBITDA for the third quarter, excluding special items, was $503 million in 2025 and $461 million in 2024. The third quarter net income included special items expense of $0.22 per share. The $0.22 were costs related to the acquisition of the Greif Containerboard business, including step-up of the acquired inventory, integration-related expenses and transaction expenses. Details of the special items for both the third quarter of 2025 and 2024 were included in the schedules that accompanied our earnings press release.

2025 年第三季公司總 EBITDA（不含特殊項目）為 5.03 億美元，2024 年為 4.61 億美元。第三季淨利包含每股0.22美元的特殊項目支出。這 0.22 美元是與收購 Greif Containerboard 業務相關的成本，包括收購庫存的增值、整合相關費用和交易費用。2025 年和 2024 年第三季的特殊項目詳情已包含在我們收益新聞稿的附表中。

We completed the acquisition of the Greif Containerboard business on September 2. Our results included 1 month of the acquired operations from Greif, which impacted earnings per share by $0.11 after special items which includes depreciation and amortization after preliminary purchase accounting and additional interest on new borrowing to finance the acquisition. Excluding the special items and the impact of the acquisition, our earnings increased by $0.19 per share compared to the third quarter of 2024. This increase was driven primarily by higher prices and mix in the Packaging segment for $0.73, lower fiber costs of $0.16, higher prices and mix in the Paper segment, $0.02 and a lower maintenance outage expense of $0.01.

我們於9月2日完成了對Greif Containerboard業務的收購。我們的業績包括從 Greif 收購的 1 個月業務，這導致每股收益在扣除特殊項目後減少了 0.11 美元，特殊項目包括初步購買會計處理後的折舊和攤銷以及為收購融資而新增借款的額外利息。剔除特殊項目和收購的影響，我們的每股收益比 2024 年第三季增加了 0.19 美元。這一增長主要由包裝部門價格和產品組合上漲 0.73 美元、纖維成本下降 0.16 美元、紙張部門價格和產品組合上漲 0.02 美元以及維護停機費用下降 0.01 美元所推動。

Partially offsetting the improvements were higher operating costs, $0.33; lower production and sales volume in the Packaging segment, $0.16; higher depreciation expense, $0.07; higher freight expense, $0.07; higher fixed and other expenses of $0.07 and higher interest expense excluding the Greif acquisition debt of $0.02 and lower production volume in the Paper segment for $0.01. Because of the uncertainties of the Greif closing date, our third quarter guidance did not forecast any impact from the acquisition. Excluding special items and acquisition impact, the results were $0.04 above the third quarter guidance of $2.80 per share, primarily due to favorable price and mix in the Packaging segment and lower freight costs.

部分抵銷上述改善的因素包括：營運成本上升0.33美元；包裝業務板塊產量和銷售下降0.16美元；折舊費用上升0.07美元；運費上升0.07美元；固定及其他費用上升0.07美元；不計入Greif收購債務的利息支出上升0.02美元；以及造紙板業務美元下降0.010美元。由於Greif收購完成日期存在不確定性，我們第三季業績指引並未預測此次收購會產生任何影響。在剔除特殊項目和收購影響後，業績比第三季每股 2.80 美元的預期高出 0.04 美元，主要原因是包裝業務的價格和產品組合有利，以及運費成本降低。

Looking at our Packaging business and including the acquired business, EBITDA excluding special items in the third quarter of 2025 of $492 million with sales of $2.1 billion resulted in a margin of 23.1% versus last year's EBITDA of $446 million and sales of $2 billion or a 22.2% margin. Corrugated volume was largely on plan and continued to reflect the cautious ordering patterns we've seen most of the year. We ran to demand during the quarter and produced 38,000 fewer tons of containerboard than the third quarter of 2024 and 59,000 more tons of containerboard than the second quarter of 2025. Our containerboard inventory in the legacy system increased by 15,000 tons during the quarter in preparation for the fourth quarter DeRidder outage.

從我們的包裝業務（包括收購的業務）來看，2025 年第三季不計特殊項目的 EBITDA 為 4.92 億美元，銷售額為 21 億美元，利潤率為 23.1%，而去年同期的 EBITDA 為 4.46 億美元，銷售額為 20 億美元，利潤率為 22.2%。瓦楞紙板銷量基本上符合計劃，並繼續反映出我們今年大部分時間以來所看到的謹慎訂購模式。本季我們全力滿足市場需求，箱板紙產量比 2024 年第三季減少了 38,000 噸，比 2025 年第二季增加了 59,000 噸。為因應第四季度 DeRidder 停運，本季我們在舊系統中的箱板紙庫存增加了 15,000 噸。

From an operational standpoint, we ran very well the entire quarter and with strong performance in terms of cost and production efficiency across the entire mill and corrugated system, which is a testament once again to the successful investments across our business. We continue to look every day at opportunities to take out cost and optimize production capabilities with the support of our considerable in-house technical and capital execution expertise. The acquired mills produced 47,000 tons during the month. Having closed the acquisition on September 2, we used the initial month of ownership to our advantage.

從營運角度來看，我們整個季度的營運都非常出色，整個工廠和瓦楞紙板系統在成本和生產效率方面都表現出色，這再次證明了我們業務投資的成功。我們每天都在尋找機會，透過我們強大的內部技術和資本執行專業知識來降低成本並優化生產能力。收購的工廠當月生產了 47,000 噸產品。9月2日完成收購後，我們利用了取得所有權的第一個月時間。

While our activities impacted the September results, they will improve long-term productivity and efficiency. Massillon had a scheduled annual maintenance outage, which we extended to five weeks and completed earlier in October. We did a comprehensive refurbishment of the mill, including reliability improvements on the paper machines, the OCC plant and the power plant. All mill infrastructure and unit operations were cleaned and inspected. We took the two paper machines at the larger Riverville facility down for five days apiece to implement the first phase of our reliability improvements.

雖然我們的活動對 9 月份的業績產生了影響，但它們將提高長期生產力和效率。馬西隆市原計劃進行年度維護停工，但我們將其延長至五週，並於 10 月初完成。我們對造紙廠進行了全面翻新，包括提高了造紙機、OCC工廠和發電廠的可靠性。所有工廠基礎設施和單元操作均已清洗和檢查。為了實施可靠性改善的第一階段，我們關閉了Riverville大型工廠的兩台造紙機，每台停產五天。

We'll have additional work to do to implement our efforts and expect to have achieved the first phase by the end of the fourth quarter. We're already seeing the benefits of improved performance and quality with both mills running at higher performance. We'll continue to manage and invest in these facilities to achieve operating performance in line with the legacy PCA system.

我們還需要做更多的工作來落實我們的努力，預計到第四季末將完成第一階段。我們已經看到兩台工廠以更高的效率運轉，性能和品質都得到了提升，帶來了許多好處。我們將繼續管理和投資這些設施，以實現與傳統 PCA 系統一致的營運績效。

I'll now turn it over to Tom, who'll provide more details on the containerboard sales and corrugated business.

現在我將把發言權交給湯姆，他將提供有關箱板紙銷售和瓦楞紙板業務的更多細節。

Thank you, Mark. The performance of the Packaging business was largely as we expected, and it was another strong quarter. Domestic containerboard and corrugated products prices and mix were $0.72 per share above the third quarter of 2024 and down $0.02 per share compared to the second quarter of 2025, which was all attributable to containerboard mix. Export containerboard prices were up $0.01 per share versus last year's third quarter and flat with the second quarter of 2025.

謝謝你，馬克。包裝業務的表現基本上符合預期，又是一個強勁的季度。國內箱板紙和瓦楞紙製品的價格和結構比 2024 年第三季高出每股 0.72 美元，比 2025 年第二季低每股 0.02 美元，完全歸因於箱板紙的結構變化。出口箱板紙價格較去年第三季上漲每股 0.01 美元，與 2025 年第二季持平。

As Mark mentioned, while customer ordering patterns have continued to reflect market conditions that have persisted throughout most of the year, corrugated demand improved as the quarter progressed. In the legacy business, shipments per day in our corrugated products plants were down 2.7% versus last year's record third quarter when per day shipments were up more than 11% over 2023. We will continue to see tough comparisons going into the first quarter of 2026.

正如馬克所提到的，雖然客戶的訂購模式繼續反映今年大部分時間以來持續存在的市場狀況，但隨著季度的推進，瓦楞紙板的需求有所改善。在傳統業務方面，我們瓦楞紙製品工廠的日出貨量比去年創紀錄的第三季度下降了 2.7%，而去年第三季的日出貨量比 2023 年增長了 11% 以上。進入 2026 年第一季度，我們將繼續面臨嚴峻的對比情勢。

Total shipments were down 1.1% in the third quarter of 2025 versus last year, reflecting one more workday this year. For a little context, on a per workday basis, July shipments were about 6% down from last year, while August was less than 1% down and September was less than 2% down. Margin performance was very strong again with Packaging segment EBITDA margins improving to 23.1% versus 22.6% in the second quarter and 22.2% last year.

2025 年第三季總出貨量比去年同期下降 1.1%，反映出今年多了一個工作天。簡單來說，以每個工作天計算，7 月的出貨量比去年同期下降了約 6%，8 月下降了不到 1%，9 月下降了不到 2%。利潤率表現再次非常強勁，包裝業務的 EBITDA 利潤率提高至 23.1%，而第二季為 22.6%，去年同期為 22.2%。

Including the acquisition, shipments were up 3.7% over last year per day and 5.3% overall. The acquired plants had a strong September with volume growth and good price realization. We're working very hard to integrate the operations into the PCA corrugated system, and we like what we see so far. The culture is highly compatible with PCAs, and our new colleagues have gone beyond the call of duty to continue to develop strong customer relationships and serve those customers.

包括此次收購在內，日均出貨量比去年同期成長 3.7%，整體成長 5.3%。收購的工廠在9月表現強勁，產量成長，價格實現良好。我們正在努力將各項操作整合到 PCA 瓦楞紙板系統中，目前為止，我們對所看到的成果感到滿意。這種文化與個人護理助理（PCA）的理念高度契合，我們的新同事們也盡職盡責，不斷發展與客戶的良好關係，並為客戶提供優質服務。

Greif has historically carried relatively more inventory in its corrugated system than we do. With the acquired plants being part of a much larger integrated system, we can more efficiently and nimbly supply them now that they are part of PCA. We have the opportunity to bring inventory down to lower levels, and we'll manage our operations to do so over the next couple of quarters. As expected, export sales volume of containerboard was down 8,000 tons from the second quarter of 2025 and down 32,000 tons from the third quarter of 2024.

從歷史上看，Greif 的瓦楞紙板庫存量一直比我們相對多。由於收購的工廠是更大一體化系統的一部分，現在它們已成為 PCA 的一部分，我們可以更有效率、更靈活地為它們供貨。我們有機會將庫存降低到更低的水平，我們將在接下來的幾個季度透過管理營運來實現這一目標。正如預期的那樣，箱板紙出口銷售量比 2025 年第二季減少了 8,000 噸，比 2024 年第三季減少了 32,000 噸。

I'll now turn it back to Mark.

現在我把麥克風交還給馬克。

Thanks, Tom. Looking at the Paper segment, EBITDA, excluding special items, in the third quarter was $40 million with sales of $161 million, or a 24.9% margin compared to the third quarter of 2024 EBITDA of $43 million and sales of $159 million, or 27.1% margin.

謝謝你，湯姆。從造紙業務來看，第三季不計特殊項目的 EBITDA 為 4,000 萬美元，銷售額為 1.61 億美元，利潤率為 24.9%，而 2024 年第三季的 EBITDA 為 4,300 萬美元，銷售額為 1.59 億美元，利潤率為 27.1%。

Sales volume was 1% below the third quarter of 2024 and 10% above the second quarter of 2025. Prices and mix were up 2.1% from the third quarter of 2024 and 0.5% from the second quarter of 2025. Performance reflected the seasonally stronger third quarter and sales volume was higher than expected.

銷售量比 2024 年第三季下降 1%，比 2025 年第二季成長 10%。價格和產品組合比 2024 年第三季上漲 2.1%，比 2025 年第二季上漲 0.5%。業績反映了第三季季節性成長的強勁勢頭，銷售量高於預期。

I'm now going to turn it over to Kent.

我現在要把它交給肯特了。

Thanks, Mark. Cash provided by operations was an all-time quarterly record of $469 million. And after $192 million of CapEx during the quarter, free cash flow was a record $277 million. In addition to CapEx and funding the Greif purchase price, the primary payments of cash during the quarter included dividends of $113 million and cash tax payments of $19 million.

謝謝你，馬克。經營活動產生的現金流量創下季度歷史新高，達到 4.69 億美元。該季度資本支出為 1.92 億美元，自由現金流創下 2.77 億美元的紀錄。除了資本支出和支付 Greif 收購價格外，本季的主要現金支付包括 1.13 億美元的股息和 1,900 萬美元的現金稅款支付。

Our quarter end cash balance, including marketable securities, was $806 million with liquidity of approximately $1.4 billion. To update you on annual shutdown expenses, we now expect $0.45 in the fourth quarter for the legacy PCA system and $0.02 for the acquired business. The legacy system expense is expected to be $0.29 higher than the third quarter of 2025 and $0.17 higher than the fourth quarter of 2024.

本季末現金餘額（包括有價證券）為 8.06 億美元，流動資金約 14 億美元。為向您報告年度停機費用，我們現在預計第四季度傳統 PCA 系統停機費用為 0.45 美元，收購業務停機費用為 0.02 美元。預計遺留系統費用將比 2025 年第三季高出 0.29 美元，比 2024 年第四季高出 0.17 美元。

We are revising our capital forecast for the year to be approximately $800 million from our previous forecast of $840 million to $870 million. This is primarily as a result of timing of expenditures, and we have not changed our overall capital plan. This revision includes incremental expenditures for the acquired business. As part of the Greif acquisition purchase accounting, we are required to record the acquired assets on our books at fair value.

我們將今年的資本預測從先前的 8.4 億至 8.7 億美元修正為約 8 億美元。這主要是由於支出時間表造成的，我們並沒有改變整體資本計劃。本次修訂包括收購業務的新增支出。作為 Greif 收購購買會計處理的一部分，我們需要以公允價值將收購的資產記錄在我們的帳簿上。

Our valuation is preliminary and is subject to change over the one-year period after the acquisition. Our preliminary evaluation in addition to working capital includes approximately $870 million of property, plant and equipment, $530 million of intangibles and $280 million of goodwill. We recorded $12 million of depreciation and amortization of the acquired assets during the third quarter, and we expect an annual run rate going forward of approximately $130 million.

我們的估值是初步的，可能會在收購後的一年內發生變化。我們的初步評估除了營運資金外，還包括約 8.7 億美元的固定資產、廠房和設備，5.3 億美元的無形資產和 2.8 億美元的商譽。第三季度，我們提列了收購資產的折舊和攤銷費用 1,200 萬美元，預計未來每年的折舊和攤提費用約為 1.3 億美元。

As a reminder, annual net interest expense is expected to increase by $95 million, and we recorded $8 million in additional interest during the third quarter. We were a significant containerboard supplier to Greif before the acquisition and shipments of containerboard that were recorded as third-party sales in the past are now integrated. This affects the timing of recognition as shipments are now recorded as inventory with sales and profit being recorded when that inventory is converted and sold to a customer. We estimate that this affected results by about $0.03 in the third quarter, which will not recur going forward.

提醒各位，預計年度淨利息支出將增加 9,500 萬美元，第三季我們記錄了 800 萬美元的額外利息收入。在 Greif 被收購之前，我們是其重要的箱板紙供應商，過去作為第三方銷售記錄的箱板紙出貨量現在已整合到 Greif 的業務中。這會影響確認時間，因為現在發貨被記錄為庫存，而銷售額和利潤則在該庫存轉化為商品並出售給客戶時才被記錄。我們估計這會對第三季的業績造成約 0.03 美元的影響，但這種情況以後不會再發生。

I will now turn it back over to Mark.

現在我將把任務交還給馬克。

Thanks, Kent. For the fourth quarter, we expect per day corrugated shipments to be higher than the third quarter with three less shipping days. Export containerboard sales will be higher than the third quarter, but relatively low when compared to traditional fourth quarter volume. Containerboard production in the legacy system will be slightly lower than the third quarter with the maintenance outage at the DeRidder mill, and we expect inventory levels in the legacy system at year-end to be similar to levels entering the fourth quarter.

謝謝你，肯特。我們預計第四季度瓦楞紙板的日均出貨量將高於第三季度，但出貨天數將減少三天。出口箱板紙銷售量將高於第三季度，但與傳統的第四季銷售量相比則相對較低。由於德里德工廠的維護停產，舊系統中的箱板紙產量將略低於第三季度，我們預計舊系統在年底的庫存水準將與進入第四季度時的水準相似。

Outage expenses will be $0.29 higher than the third quarter. We expect prices and mix in the Packaging segment to be lower as a result of seasonally less rich mix. In the Paper segment, we expect seasonally lower production and sales volume and flat pricing. We also expect seasonally higher energy and fiber costs as well as slightly higher freight and other operating costs. We expect significant improvement in the results of operations from the acquired business.

停電費用將比第三季高出 0.29 美元。由於季節性因素導致產品種類減少，我們預期包裝產業的商品價格和產品組合將會下降。在造紙領域，我們預期產量和銷售量將因季節性因素而下降，價格將保持不變。我們也預期能源和光纖成本會因季節性因素而上漲，貨運和其他營運成本也會略有上漲。我們預期收購後的業務經營業績將有顯著改善。

We will be impacted by lower production and higher maintenance expenses from the Massillon mill outage that did continue into October and seasonally lower volume and mix in the corrugated business. We will benefit from a full quarter of improved operations at the Riverville mill. We will be managing production to achieve lower inventories, as Tom mentioned. Considering these items, we expect fourth quarter earnings of $2.40 per share, excluding special items.

由於馬西隆工廠停產一直持續到 10 月份，加上瓦楞紙板業務季節性銷售和產品組合的下降，我們將受到產量下降和維護費用增加的影響。我們將受益於Riverville工廠整整一個季​​度營運效率的提高。正如湯姆所提到的那樣，我們將透過管理生產來降低庫存。考慮到這些因素，我們預計第四季度每股收益為 2.40 美元（不計特殊項目）。

And with that, we'd be happy to entertain any questions, but I must remind you that some of the statements we've made on the call constituted forward-looking statements. The statements were based on current estimates, expectations and projections of the company and do involve inherent risks and uncertainties, including the direction of the economy and those identified as risk factors in our annual report on Form 10-K on file with the SEC. Actual results could differ materially from those expressed in the forward-looking statements.

最後，我們很樂意回答任何問題，但我必須提醒各位，我們在電話會議上所作的一些陳述構成了前瞻性陳述。這些聲明是基於公司目前的估計、預期和預測，並且確實涉及固有的風險和不確定性，包括經濟走向以及我們在向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 表格年度報告中確定的風險因素。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中所表達的結果有重大差異。

And with that, Alessia, I'd like to open the call up for any questions, please. Thank you.

那麼，Alessia，現在請大家提問。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) George Staphos, Bank of America.

（操作員說明）喬治·斯塔福斯，美國銀行。

I guess maybe the first question as it normally comes up during Q&A. Can you talk about bookings and billings as we're starting fourth quarter? Obviously, you have fewer shipping days, but what are you seeing on a per workday basis or however you want to frame it? And then we had some other questions.

我想這可能是第一個問題，因為它通常會在問答環節被問到。第四季即將開始，能否談談預訂和結算情況？顯然，你們的運輸天數減少了，但是按每個工作日計算，或者無論你怎麼看待這個問題，你們的情況如何？然後我們還有一些其他問題。

George, this is Tom. Right now, kind of the blend of bookings and billings that we see so far is a little over 1% up. And again, I'll remind you, very tough comps. Okay?

喬治，這是湯姆。目前來看，預訂量和帳單金額的綜合增幅略高於 1%。我再次提醒你們，比賽非常艱難。好的？

Got it. And you said the tough comps just factually will be difficult through 1Q, that was part of your script where we're done by the end of this quarter in terms of what you think tough comps are? And is there any sort of strength in any of the end markets that you would point us to or anything that's particularly challenging right now?

知道了。你說過，第一季確實會面臨比較困難的問題，這是你之前計劃的一部分，我們會在本季末完成你認為比較困難的問題的分析嗎？那麼，您認為終端市場有哪些優勢值得關注，或是目前有哪些特別具有挑戰性的面向？

Actually, George, outside of a couple of end markets, our business has been very, very good. Those couple of markets that were -- that we've struggled -- it's not we've struggled. They've struggled in the marketplace. I mean, everybody has read about beef. That's a big segment for us.

事實上，喬治，除了少數幾個終端市場之外，我們的業務一直都非常非常好。那幾個我們經營不善的市場──其實並不是說我們經營不善。他們在市場上舉步維艱。我的意思是，每個人都讀過關於牛肉的文章。這對我們來說是一個很大的市場。

And the cattle herds are down to a 70-year low. So there's a lot of struggles going on there, and we even have the administration looking at other ways to solve that problem. And then the other area is the building materials. We all know what's happened with housing starts and where that stands. So those two segments have been a drag on us. Other than that, we've been very pleased with the results in all of our other sales segments.

牛群數量已降至70年來的最低水準。所以那裡有很多困難，甚至政府也在考慮其他方法來解決這個問題。另一個領域是建築材料。我們都知道房屋開工量發生了什麼變化，以及目前的狀況。所以這兩個環節一直拖累我們。除此之外，我們對其他所有銷售領域的業績都非常滿意。

As regards to Greif, I know we'll get more color over time, but any big picture, any large sort of boulders you could tell us about in terms of what you're finding with Greif relative to the deal model? And is there any way at this juncture you can give us a view on what the maintenance might look like? So in that regard, again, is $300 million of EBITDA reasonable for the combined business? What does maintenance look like? And then I had one or two last follow-ons. That will be quick.

關於 Greif，我知道隨著時間的推移我們會了解更多細節，但就 Greif 的交易模式而言，您能否給我們介紹一下整體情況，或者說說您目前發現的哪些關鍵問題？在這個階段，您能否向我們介紹一下維護工作可能會是什麼樣子？那麼，從這個角度來看，合併後的企業 3 億美元的 EBITDA 是否合理呢？維護工作具體包含哪些內容？然後我還有最後一兩個後續問題。那會很快的。

Well, again, I think as we talked about this, the CorrChoice side of the business that we acquired, the converting side was very well capitalized in very good condition. The two mills, we've had -- from September 2, that day, we've had upwards of -- on any given day, 100 of our PCA personnel in the mills at Massillon and the same number of people in the mill at Riverville, assisting in doing what we do, and that's operational expertise. Tom, do you want to comment about the corrugated?

嗯，再說一遍，我認為正如我們之前討論的那樣，我們收購的 CorrChoice 業務的轉換部分資金非常充足，狀況也非常好。從 9 月 2 日那天起，我們這兩家工廠每天都有超過 100 名 PCA 人員在 Massillon 的工廠工作，Riverville 的工廠也有同樣數量的人員在工作，協助我們開展業務，這就是營運專業知識。湯姆，你想對瓦楞紙板說點什麼嗎？

Yeah. Let me just say in total, what we've -- I think the best way to summarize this, George, is probably that it is an organization that is very customer focused. And as I mentioned, the culture of the business fits very well with ours. That's a great bolt-on. Operationally, not nearly as strong as PCA and because we've had many, many more resources, and we've got this great team to address those issues.

是的。總而言之，我認為總結起來最好的方式，喬治，就是說這是一個非常以客戶為中心的組織。正如我之前提到的，這家公司的企業文化與我們公司的文化非常契合。那真是個很棒的附加元件。從營運角度來看，我們遠不如 PCA 強大，因為我們擁有更多的資源，而且我們還有一支優秀的團隊來解決這些問題。

But in typical PCA fashion, we get on it right away, right upfront, not trying to manage to a quarter or anything like that. We're looking at the long haul. And I think given that organization and their focus on the customer and the end markets that they supply, this is going to be very, very accretive to our earnings going forward.

但按照 PCA 的慣例，我們會立即著手處理，直接進入正題，而不是試圖控制在某個季度或類似的情況下。我們著眼於長遠發展。我認為，鑑於該組織及其對客戶和終端市場的關注，這將極大地促進我們未來的獲利。

One note, George. We took the machines down at Riverville for basically about a five-day period, each machine in September. But during the time we ran in September, we improved operations. We were running like 97.2% for the month of September in Riverville, and that's up dramatically from prior to the acquisition. And so we've seen immediate improvements in both efficiency and quality. But the good news is we'll continue to see a lot more benefits as we work through things. And as far as your question about some of the accretive value, I think, Kent, you and I were talking this morning.

喬治，還有一件事。我們在 Riverville 把機器拆下來，每台機器都拆了大約五天，時間是九月。但在9月份的營運期間，我們改進了營運。9 月我們在 Riverville 的營運效率達到了 97.2%，與收購之前相比有了顯著提高。因此，我們在效率和品質方面都看到了立竿見影的提升。但好消息是，隨著我們逐步解決問題，我們將會看到更多好處。至於你問到的一些增值問題，我想，肯特，你和我今天早上已經談過了。

Yeah. So George, going into the acquisition, historical Greif performance, $240 million was about a good annual run rate for the EBITDA -- our projection for synergies on a run rate basis after the second year was about $60 million. We're well on target for that. We're looking probably in about the 20-ish range by the second quarter of next year to give you a little bit more clarity on that on a run rate basis.

是的。所以喬治，在進行收購之前，根據 Greif 的歷史業績，2.4 億美元是一個不錯的 EBITDA 年運行率——我們預計第二年後按運行率計算的協同效應約為 6000 萬美元。我們目前進展順利。為了讓您更清楚地了解運行率，我們預計到明年第二季度，這個數字可能會達到 20 左右。

Quickly, $0.20, maybe a sequential increase in D&A as part of the $2.40 is kind of rough math. And any way -- I know it's kind of tough on live mike, but any way to talk about what the inventory strategy quantify what the tons coming down might mean in the Greif system relative to where you've been?

快速計算一下，0.20 美元，可能是 2.40 美元中折舊和攤銷的連續增長，這只是一個粗略的計算。我知道用現場麥克風說話有點困難，但有沒有辦法談談庫存策略，量化一下庫存下降的噸位對 Greif 系統意味著什麼，相對於你們之前的情況？

The comment about inventory, again, it was mentioned, we've got 10 mills now in the system. We've got incredible opportunity to take care of all of our box plants nationwide. So we will quickly incorporate that strategy into the CorrChoice operation. And it will take some time to work the inventory down. We've already started that.

關於庫存的評論再次被提及，我們現在系統中有 10 百萬台。我們有絕佳的機會來照顧我們遍布全國的所有箱形植物。因此，我們將迅速把這項策略融入到 CorrChoice 的營運中。清理庫存需要一些時間。我們已經開始了。

Yeah. Also, George, I'd just add that mix is a part of that equation also. So we've got to do both at the same time, but very good opportunities there.

是的。另外，喬治，我還要補充一點，混合也是這個等式的一部分。所以我們必須同時做這兩件事，但這裡面蘊藏著非常好的機會。

All right. With that, next question, please.

好的。那麼，請問下一個問題。

Mike Roxland, Truist.

Mike Roxland，Truist。

Congrats on closing the acquisition. I just wanted to follow up, Kent, with you, one, on the numbers that you just mentioned in relation to George's question, the $240 million of EBITDA and the $60 million of synergies. Now that you've owned the assets for roughly 6 weeks, can you talk about any potential upside to those numbers that you foresee from those assets?

恭喜完成收購。肯特，我只是想就你剛才提到的與喬治的問題相關的數字，即 2.4 億美元的 EBITDA 和 6000 萬美元的協同效應，向你確認一下。現在您持有這些資產大約 6 週了，您能否談談您預見到的這些資產可能帶來的任何潛在收益成長空間？

Right now, again, I'd rather just let you know that we're -- every day, we're seeing positive results from the work we're doing. So again, I think a lot is going to depend on the marketplace in the future and what we can do to take advantage of the footprint on the converting side. The mills will continue to be improved upon and continue to deliver in much the same way that the Boise assets delivered over the last 10 years. So again, I think I'd rather just be conservative and say we're going to stick with the with the numbers that we've already given you and just say that there's always upside, but it does depend on what the market does.

現在，我只想告訴大家，我們每天的工作都取得了正面的成果。所以，我認為未來很多事情都將取決於市場，以及我們能做些什麼來利用轉換率的優勢。這些工廠將繼續改進，並繼續以與博伊西資產在過去 10 年中大致相同的方式提供服務。所以，我還是覺得保守一點比較好，我們會堅持之前給的數字，並表示總會有上漲空間，但這取決於市場走勢。

Got it, Mark. Any comments you can make in terms of the improvements, whether in terms of efficiency costs went out with respect to Massillon, you extended -- you mentioned in your comments and also in the press release that you extended the maintenance outage to five weeks. So can you talk about maybe some of the benefits that you're receiving from that extra work that you put into the mill?

明白了，馬克。關於改進方面，您有什麼意見嗎？無論是效率方面還是成本方面，關於馬西隆，您都提到——您在評論和新聞稿中都提到，您將維護停機時間延長至五週。那麼，您能否談談您從在工廠投入的額外工作中獲得的一些好處呢？

Yes. I mean it's quite remarkable that with the capability we have in PCA, we've got upwards of 200 people in our technology engineering organization. And again, from September 2 that morning at both mills, we were working simultaneously, and we had for at least a 6-week straight period of time at least 100 PCA personnel in Massillon working full time to assist the mill in improving their capability.

是的。我的意思是，考慮到我們在PCA方面的能力，我們的技術工程團隊擁有超過200名員工，這確實非常了不起。9 月 2 日早上，我們同時在兩家工廠開展工作，並且至少連續 6 週，我們在馬西隆安排了至少 100 名 PCA 人員全職工作，以幫助工廠提高其生產能力。

I don't think there's anything in that mill that hasn't been touched. We undertook the first week of just cleaning the mills, inspecting, taking apart major equipment bearing changes all the way down to lubrication systems, hydraulic systems, roll changes, power equipment, boilers, turbine generators. So I feel very good that comprehensively, we understand the opportunities we need to take advantage of going forward. Massillon as an example, we understand the limitations. We understand the upside. So some of it's going to be dependent on ordering some equipment and getting it delivered.

我覺得那家工廠裡沒有東西沒被動過。第一周，我們主要的工作就是清理軋機，檢查、拆卸主要設備，更換軸承，一直到潤滑系統、液壓系統、軋輥更換、動力設備、鍋爐、汽輪發電機。因此，我感到非常欣慰，我們已經全面了解了未來需要抓住的機會。以馬西隆為例，我們了解其中的限制。我們了解其中的優勢。所以，部分工作將取決於能否訂購一些設備並收到貨。

The good news, I still feel though what we told you is that it's -- when we converted some of the Boise acquisition, we were spending $0.5 billion, ie, DeRidder, Jackson, Wallula for these conversions. But I told you before, we expect to be -- the work at Massillon, the work at Riverville, it will be the tens of millions of dollars. So over the next couple of years, $10 million here, $10 million there for system improvements, upgrades and technology and capability. But the bones of the mills are good. We just need to update them and then, like I say, run these mills the way PCA looks at the business and takes care of the business.

好消息是，我仍然覺得我們之前告訴你們的是——當我們轉換博伊西收購的部分資產時，我們花費了 5 億美元，即德里德、傑克遜、瓦盧拉等資產的轉換。但我之前告訴過你們，我們預計──馬西隆的工程、里弗維爾的工程，將耗資數千萬美元。因此，在接下來的幾年裡，我們將投入 1,000 萬美元用於系統改進、升級和技術提升。但這些磨坊的骨架很好。我們只需要更新它們，然後就像我說的，按照 PCA 看待業務和處理業務的方式來運作這些工廠。

So I'm feeling very bullish on what we've seen just in 1.5 months. As an example, both mills, we saw -- we started at Massillon the week before last, and we saw at least a 50% improvement just in the quality of the profiles, moisture profiles, basis weight profiles, physical test profiles. So huge improvement there, and that translates into customer experience with the product through CorrChoice. So again, feeling very good about it.

所以，我對過去一個半月以來我們所看到的成果感到非常樂觀。例如，我們看到兩家工廠——我們從前一周開始在馬西隆工廠進行測試，僅在產品特性、水分特性、定量特性和物理測試特性方面，就至少提高了 50%。因此，這方面有了巨大的改進，並透過 CorrChoice 將這種改進轉化為客戶對產品的體驗。所以，我再次感到非常滿足。

Got you. I appreciate the color there. And one last question before turning it over. Greif EBITDA for the one month you owned the assets came in a little lower than we expected given recent performance prior to your ownership. Was that all due to the outages, that you took at Massillon and Riverville? Or was there any economic downtime that you took due to choppy backdrop or as you manage elevated inventories? And then any initial thoughts on 2026 CapEx?

抓到你了。我喜歡那裡的顏色。翻頁之前最後一個問題。Greif 在您擁有這些資產的一個月內，其 EBITDA 略低於我們根據您接手之前的近期業績所預期的水平。這一切都是因為您在馬西隆和里弗維爾遇到的停電造成的嗎？或者，由於市場環境動盪或庫存積壓等原因，您是否經歷過任何經濟低迷期？那麼，對於2026年的資本支出，您有什麼初步想法嗎？

Mike, I'll take that one. It was largely from the outages and the timing effects of the revenue and profit recognition that hit us by about $12 million during the quarter. So it was those. In terms of economic downtime, no, we didn't factor that in, the Greif results for September. No.

麥克，我來做這個。本季度，由於系統故障以及收入和利潤確認的時間影響，我們損失了約 1200 萬美元。原來就是那些。就經濟低迷時期而言，不，我們沒有把這一點考慮進去，Greif 9 月的業績報告也沒有考慮在內。不。

The other part of your question about CapEx into next year, we'll update you in January for the plan for next year. But I think we're on track with taking advantage of our opportunities. I would like to say that just to remind everybody, the biggest pieces of capital spending this year right now are a couple of big projects on the converting side. We've got one big project going on in Ohio right now, and that's a new facility.

關於您提出的明年資本支出計畫的另一部分問題，我們將在1月向您更新明年的計畫。但我認為我們正按計劃把握住機會。我想提醒大家，今年最大的資本支出項目是幾個大型改造項目。我們目前在俄亥俄州有一個大項目正在進行，那就是建造一座新工廠。

And then in upstate New York, we're totally upgrading one of our facilities as a big CapEx project that will -- both those projects will finish into next year. But we're always taking advantage of these capabilities to insert new converting lines and upgrade converting operations. But we'll give you a better feel in January what we're looking at. We do have some very interesting energy opportunities that we'll give you more detail with next year in the January call.

然後，在紐約州北部，我們正在對我們的一個設施進行全面升級，這是一個大型資本支出項目——這兩個項目都將在明年完成。但我們始終利用這些功能來插入新的加工生產線並升級加工作業。但到一月份，我們會讓您更清楚地了解我們正在關注的內容。我們有一些非常有趣的能源投資機會，我們將在明年一月的電話會議上向您詳細介紹。

Gabe Hajde, Wells Fargo.

Gabe Hajde，富國銀行。

I wanted to ask, I see this number, and I think you kind of strip out input costs. So it's -- I'm going to call it the frictional inflation treadmill, but running kind of around $1 year-to-date. So I think in this quarter, it was $0.33. So if I annualize that, we're looking at kind of $170 million. Is that something that's particularly elevated this year or kind of post pandemic when we think about labor inflation and insurance costs, things like that, that's a good run rate on a go-forward basis for maybe the combined entity or maybe legacy PCA?

我想問一下，我看到這個數字，我覺得你好像把投入成本剔除了。所以，我稱之為摩擦性通膨的跑步機，但今年迄今為止，通膨率一直徘徊在 1 美元左右。所以我覺得這個季度是0.33美元。如果以年計算，大概是1.7億美元。今年或後疫情時代，考慮到勞動力通膨和保險成本等因素，這種情況是否特別突出？對於合併後的實體或原PCA而言，這是否是合理的未來運轉速度？

Let me -- one good piece of that, that we're dealing with, but everybody is dealing with it even at your household is energy costs, electricity rates. Just in the last year or 2, we've seen some of our facilities, electricity rates are up 50% to 75%. So that's one good example of what the world is dealing with, and we're part of that world. That's why I was alluding to the fact that we've got 3 significant projects that we're going to introduce into early next year that will take 3 of our mills essentially electricity independent within the next 2.5 years.

讓我說說其中一個很好的方面，也是我們正在處理的問題，但其實每個人都在處理這個問題，即使是你們家也一樣，那就是能源成本和電費。就在過去一兩年裡，我們發現我們一些工廠的電價上漲了 50% 到 75%。這就是世界正在面臨的典型例子，而我們也是這個世界的一部分。這就是為什麼我暗示我們有三個重大項目將在明年初推出，這些項目將在未來 2.5 年內使我們的 3 家工廠基本上實現電力獨立。

And then, Gabe, on the others, it's the usual. It's the labor inflation. It's chemicals. It's any kind of supplies, insurance, rent, those sorts of things that have been going up at a fairly healthy clip in the last few years.

至於其他方面，Gabe，一切照舊。這是勞動成本上漲導致的。是化學物質。各種用品、保險、租金等等，這些東西在過去幾年都以相當快的速度上漲。

Okay. But is that -- is it particularly elevated this year? Or is that something that sort of --

好的。但今年這種情況是否特別嚴重？或者說，那是某種…--

Well, again, it's just I think the biggest factor was electricity rate increases nationwide. If I take one element of cost, it would be electricity.

嗯，我覺得最大的因素還是全國的電價上漲。如果只考慮成本中的一項，那就是電費。

All right, Mark. But when you're planning for next year and you're looking at that number, maybe it's down a little bit because we don't expect more energy price increases and maybe we do because we've got to build data centers.

好的，馬克。但是，當你為明年做計劃並查看這個數字時，也許會略有下降，因為我們預計能源價格不會再上漲，但也可能會上漲，因為我們必須建造資料中心。

On the contrary, I don't see energy -- electricity cost flattening out with the demand from all of the data centers that's ongoing. The electricity rate increases, I just don't see that it's going to abate anytime soon. That's why we've taken upon ourselves that we've got the plans to -- I would say, three more of our mills. We've got a couple of our mills are in very good shape right now with electricity independence. But within 2.5 years, we'll take three more of our mills and essentially get them off the grid, and we'll be in good shape.

相反，我認為能源——電力成本不會隨著所有資料中心持續增長的需求而趨於平穩。電價上漲，我看短期內不會有所緩解。這就是為什麼我們已經著手製定計劃，再建三家工廠。我們有幾家工廠目前狀況非常好，已經實現了電力獨立。但兩年半之內，我們將把另外三家工廠完全脫離電網，到那時我們就一切順利了。

Mark, I feel like you've got me on the hook, so I have to ask. Are you referencing maybe some biogenic carbon capture opportunities? And I think we've read in some outside articles that, that could contribute up to $85 a ton that you produce.

馬克，我覺得你把我套牢了，所以我不得不問。您指的是生物源碳捕獲方面的一些機會嗎？而且我認為我們從一些外部文章中讀到，這可以為每噸產品貢獻高達 85 美元。

No, that's a separate issue. We're talking about essentially gas turbine technology. We've moved ahead, and we've got some great projects that we're going to be executing. We've got some facility -- I mean without getting into the details, Gabe, we've got some facilities that already burned a lot of natural gas and power boilers, but we're not getting the advantage of the downstream electricity generation.

不，那是另一個問題。我們主要討論的是燃氣渦輪機技術。我們已經取得了進展，接下來我們將執行一些很棒的專案。我們有一些設施——我的意思是，蓋布，我不想贅述細節——我們有一些設施已經燃燒了大量的天然氣和發電鍋爐，但我們沒有獲得下游發電的優勢。

So on a combined cycle thermal efficiency, you're not getting all of the upside opportunity for each therm of gas that you burn. The gas turbines will give us that complete efficiency on the combined cycle from steam generation and electricity generation. -- and these will be projects, again, we'll introduce to you early next year. A lot of discussion on the January call, will give you a lot more details.

因此，在聯合循環熱效率方面，你燃燒的每一個熱量單位的瓦斯並沒有得到全部的收益。燃氣渦輪機將使我們從蒸汽發電到電力發電的聯合循環實現完全高效。 ——這些項目，我們將在明年初再次向大家介紹。一月份的電話會議上有許多討論，會提供更多細節。

Yes, sir. Tom, one, we've read recently about, I'll call it, price elasticity on corrugate. I'm just curious in your conversations with customers, broadly speaking, how sensitive are customers in terms of potential price increases or trying to do more with less, whether it's lightweighting and how that's showing up maybe in your own volumes, not necessarily specific to price increases, but more thinking about lightweighting on that front?

是的，先生。湯姆，我們最近讀到一篇關於瓦楞紙板價格彈性的文章。我只是好奇，在您與客戶的交流中，總的來說，客戶對潛在的價格上漲或試圖以更少的資源做更多的事情（例如輕量化）有多敏感，以及這是否體現在您自己的銷量中，不一定特指價格上漲，而是更多地考慮在輕量化方面？

Gabe, obviously, we don't talk about any forward pricing at all. So I'm going to pass on that one. But I will tell you that the -- again, you hear Mark talk about, as I indicated, that we expect our mills and acquired mills to run at a tremendously efficient rate, and we expect them to meet some very stringent specifications. And those specifications relate to a lot of the technology that we have put into our boards, proprietary technology that gives us lightweighting capabilities that we believe is unique to the marketplace.

Gabe，很顯然，我們完全不討論任何遠期定價。所以我決定放棄這個機會。但我要告訴你們的是——正如我之前提到的，你們也聽到馬克談到，我們期望我們的工廠和收購的工廠能夠以極高的效率運轉，並且我們期望它們能夠滿足一些非常嚴格的規格。這些規格與我們在電路板中應用的許多技術有關，這些技術賦予我們輕量化能力，我們相信這是市場上獨一無二的。

Those are solutions that we take to our customers. And given this inflationary environment we're in, given the fact that costs are constantly going up, we're doing everything we can to help ourselves and our customers to fight those. However, at the end of the day, I mean, it is an inflationary environment. But I think that's a real competitive advantage we have in terms of our offerings to the marketplace.

這些是我們向客戶提供的解決方案。鑑於我們目前所處的通貨膨脹環境，鑑於成本不斷上漲，我們正在盡一切努力幫助自己和我們的客戶應對這些問題。但歸根結底，我的意思是，這是一個通膨的環境。但我認為，就我們向市場提供的產品和服務而言，這是我們真正的競爭優勢。

Mark Adam Weintraub, Seaport Research Partners.

馬克亞當溫特勞布，海港研究夥伴公司。

First, I just wanted to just follow up on Greif, the big increase in D&A from purchase accounting. Just want to reconfirm in terms of CapEx related to those assets, I think you in the past talked about $50 million to $60 million. And with that type of spend, you can get them up to Packaging Corp efficiencies, et cetera. Is that still a reasonable number, which obviously would be a lot lower than the $130 million D&A you had talked about?

首先，我只想跟進一下 Greif 的情況，即採購會計中折舊和攤銷的大幅增加。我想再次確認與這些資產相關的資本支出，我記得您之前提到過 5000 萬到 6000 萬美元。有了這樣的投入，就可以讓他們達到包裝公司的效率水準等等。這個數字仍然合理嗎？顯然，這比你之前提到的 1.3 億美元的債務和攤銷費用要低得多。

Yeah. I mean, after what we've seen with the efforts at Massillon and then the work at Riverville, it's that type of capital that we're going to spend. It's very similar to what we did at International Falls over the last 14 years. We did not have to spend massive amounts at I Falls. We just had to improve the capability on a lot of little systems and taking care of some of the technology, but we're well on our way, but it is in that tens of millions of dollars, and it will happen over the next year or two. So I'm really confident that, that number is still good.

是的。我的意思是，鑑於我們在馬西隆所做的努力以及在里弗維爾所做的工作，我們將投入的就是這種類型的資金。這和我們過去 14 年在國際瀑布城所做的工作非常相似。我們不必在艾爾瀑布花費巨資。我們只需要改進許多小型系統的功能，並改進一些技術，但我們已經取得了不錯的進展，但這需要數千萬美元，而且將在未來一兩年內完成。所以我很有信心，這個數字仍然很不錯。

Mark, this is Tom. I would also add that, as we indicated before, the sheet feeders and corrugated box plants are very well capitalized, and we're very pleased with that. And although we've got some maintenance costs and some other things that will take place there, we're not going to invest huge amounts of capital in those facilities.

馬克，這是湯姆。我還要補充一點，正如我們之前提到的，紙張輸送機和瓦楞紙箱廠的資金非常充足，我們對此非常滿意。雖然那裡會有一些維護費用和其他一些事情需要處理，但我們不會在這些設施上投入大量資金。

Right. So obviously, cash earnings from Greif are much stronger than what the book earnings are going to be. But I'm also kind of curious whether or not -- is there much in the way of tax shield benefit that you're getting through accelerated depreciation? Or is that sort of not something to call out specifically?

正確的。顯然，Greif 的現金收益遠高於其帳面收益。但我也很好奇，透過加速折舊，您是否能獲得多少稅收優惠？或者說，這件事不宜特別指出？

Well, I think you saw it in our cash tax payment for the third quarter that we called out in the script. The allocation that we had to PP&E, we were able to take bonus depreciation on and reduce our cash taxes out pretty significantly this year. So yes, I think you see that in our cash for the third quarter.

我想你已經在我們第三季的現金稅款支付中看到了這一點，我們在腳本中也提到了這一點。我們撥給固定資產的部分，我們能夠享受額外折舊，並在今年大幅減少現金稅。是的，我認為您可以從我們第三季的現金流中看出這一點。

Okay. And presumably, you'd see that next year as well. But -- so kind of shifting gears, if I could. Obviously, it's sort of been a pretty difficult environment industry-wise, box shipments, et cetera. In the past, you've been able to, through business wins, grow a lot faster than the industry and fill out these new box plants, etc, that you are building. Have you had business wins of late that you have visibility on that can give us confidence that you can continue to outperform on the volume side?

好的。想必明年你也會看到這種情況。但是——如果可以的話，我想稍微轉換一下話題。顯然，就產業環境而言，例如箱裝貨物運輸等等，一直相當困難。過去，你憑藉業務上的成功，發展速度遠超行業平均水平，並填滿了你正在建造的這些新的廠房等等。最近您是否取得了一些業務上的成功，讓我們有信心您在銷售方面繼續保持優異表現？

Mark, this is Tom. We haven't changed anything that we typically would do. Absolutely nothing. We've been -- as I mentioned, we've been hurt in our numbers from a couple of big segments of ours that we can do very little about. However, we continue to grow within existing accounts in a big way. And yes, we continue to have wins, but these are wins that we earn.

馬克，這是湯姆。我們沒有改變任何我們通常會做的事情。什麼都沒有。正如我之前提到的，我們的一些重要部門的表現受到了影響，而我們對此無能為力。然而，我們在現有客戶群中持續保持著強勁的成長勢頭。是的，我們繼續取得勝利，但這些勝利是我們靠實力贏得的。

They're not -- these aren't wins that you just go out and have something to offer that nobody else is doing necessarily, but we have to earn these wins. And we're just continuing to do the things we're doing. We're just not getting -- we're not getting a lot of lift, obviously, from the economy and the starts and stops that we've seen consistently go on throughout the year relative to tariffs and a bunch of other things certainly are impacting the business.

這些勝利不是靠你拿出別人沒有的東西就能獲得的，而是需要我們去爭取。我們只是繼續做我們正在做的事情。顯然，我們並沒有從經濟中獲得多少提振，而且今年以來，由於關稅和其他一些因素，經濟一直在起起伏伏，這無疑對業務造成了影響。

Great. And then lastly, we've had this extraordinary year in terms of magnitude of capacity closures in the North American containerboard business. And box demand hasn't been good. But are you actually feeling any more tightness because of the closures of containerboard capacity? Any color you could give would be appreciated there.

偉大的。最後，就北美箱板紙產業的產能關閉規模而言，今年是非同尋常的一年。而且盒子需求一直不好。但隨著箱板紙產能的關閉，您是否真的感到壓力更大了？任何顏色的顏料我們都會非常感激。

I think the containerboard capacity, I think you're seeing a consistent trend in this industry that it right sizes to demand and we run to demand. We do. That's what PCA does. And I think in addition, even on the corrugated side, we've closed some facilities. We've rationalized some poor assets, things like that, and we'll continue to do so. And again, it's -- we will run to the demand that we see out there.

我認為箱板紙產能，我認為你在這個行業中看到了一個持續的趨勢，那就是產能規模要與需求相匹配，而我們也正是根據需求來調整產能的。是的。這就是主成分分析（PCA）的作用。而且我認為，即使在瓦楞紙板方面，我們也關閉了一些工廠。我們已經對一些不良資產進行了合理化調整，諸如此類，我們將繼續這樣做。再說一遍，我們會回應市場上的需求。

Okay. Tom, just since you mentioned it, I apologize, I know I'm going a little long here. But I think you have two box plants, which not -- which you're going to be closing in the fourth quarter. Can you give us a little color around the decision to do that?

好的。湯姆，既然你提到了，那我就先道個歉，我知道我有點說太多了。但我認為你們有兩個箱式工廠，你們將在第四季關閉它們。您能給我們詳細介紹一下做出這個決定的原因嗎？

Well, they just happen to be box plants that are not -- that we can't -- capitalization isn't going to be the answer for those box plants, and they happen to be in markets where we have other facilities and bigger facilities and better equipped facilities to handle those customers. It's not as if we're abandoning any of those customers. We're keeping all those customers, but it's just a matter of rightsizing to the demand we see in a particular market.

嗯，它們恰好是一些小型工廠，我們不能——資本投入對這些小型工廠來說並不是解決辦法，而且它們恰好位於我們擁有其他工廠、更大工廠和設備更完善的工廠來服務這些客戶的市場。我們並沒有放棄任何一位客戶。我們會留住所有這些客戶，但這只是根據特定市場的需求調整規模的問題。

I think people tend to forget, Mark, if you think about the last 16 years, we probably made 25 acquisitions. And during that period of time, we probably shut 20-some-odd plants.

馬克，我覺得人們往往會忘記，如果你想想過去 16 年，我們可能進行了 25 次收購。在那段時間裡，我們可能關閉了二十多家工廠。

20-some-odd plants, yes.

是的，大概有二十多株植物。

During that period of time, and we've built a number of new plants and essentially recapitalized the rest of our footprint. But as Tom said, we run to demand and we -- but people lose sight of the fact that we have gone ahead and closed a number of our older plants that just don't fit our needs anymore.

在此期間，我們新建了許多工廠，並基本上對我們剩餘的業務進行了資本重組。但正如湯姆所說，我們迎合需求，而人們卻忽略了一個事實：我們已經關閉了一些不再符合我們需求的舊工廠。

Anthony Pettinari, Citi.

安東尼佩蒂納裡，花旗銀行。

With Greif, your mix into recycled will increase. And I'm wondering if it's possible to say how many tons of OCC PCA might buy kind of with the Greif assets. And as you look at your end markets and talk to your customers, as you think about the next three to five years, is there any reason to think recycled demand will grow faster or maybe slower than kraftliner? Or do you not necessarily think about it that way?

使用 Greif，您將增加與回收物混合的比例。我想知道是否有可能估算出，Greif 的資產可以購買多少噸 OCC PCA。當你審視你的終端市場並與你的客戶交談，當你思考未來三到五年時，是否有任何理由認為再生材料的需求增長速度會比牛皮紙更快或更慢？或者你不一定會這樣想？

I look at it as an opportunity. Quite frankly, I look at Massillon and Riverville as an opportunity to make more medium, which we need. And our plants run very well on the recycled medium, but combining that with our high-performance liner grades, we get the best of both worlds. And so it's not on a total percentage basis. It's really just taking advantage of the opportunity, and we'll play into that in the marketplace. But the recycled medium work very well with us.

我認為這是一個機會。坦白說，我認為馬西隆和里弗維爾是一個可以創造更多我們所需媒介的機會。我們的工廠使用再生介質運作良好，但如果將其與我們高性能的襯墊材料結合，就能獲得兩全其美的效果。所以這不是用總百分比計算的。這其實就是把握機遇，我們會在市場上充分利用這一點。但是，這種再生材料非常適合我們。

Yes, Mark, the key is that we do need the medium and 100% recycled medium is a good runner in our facilities and stuff. And so trade for some of that and those sorts of things. But as far as end markets go, we attack every end market with whatever the best solution is.

是的，馬克，關鍵是我們確實需要培養基，而 100% 回收的培養基在我們工廠運作良好。所以就用這些東西去交換吧。但就終端市場而言，我們會針對每個終端市場提出最佳解決方案。

Okay. And any quantification of like OCC consumption tons or I'm not sure if you disclosed, but --

好的。還有關於OCC消耗噸數之類的量化數據，或者我不確定你是否披露過，但是…--

Anthony, we were flexible beforehand. We could flex the system a little bit, but we typically ran around 20 -- low 20 percentage furnish OCC. That's going to move up about 10% on the whole to 30-ish going forward, if that helps.

安東尼，我們事先就比較靈活。我們可以稍微靈活調整系統，但我們通常的家具配備率在 20% 左右（低於 20%）。如果這能有所幫助的話，未來整體上這個數字將上漲約 10%，達到 30 左右。

Got it. That's very helpful. And then just a couple of quick questions on CapEx. I mean, understanding you'll give us more detail in February. But the box plant projects that you referenced, does the CapEx spend for that from '25 to '26, is it sort of directionally similar? Or does it sort of ramp down modestly or maybe ramp down more sharply?

知道了。那很有幫助。最後，關於資本支出，我還有幾個簡單的問題。我的意思是，我知道您會在二月給我們更多細節。但是您提到的那些箱式工廠項目，從 2025 年到 2026 年的資本支出，在方向上是否相似？或者它會緩慢下降，還是會急劇下降？

And then I guess second question, Mark, you've got us really interested in these energy projects. Are there currently PCA mills that are selling meaningful amounts of electricity back to the outside utility company? And could that be potentially an opportunity or part of the projects that you'll tell us more about next year?

那麼，第二個問題，馬克，你成功地引起了我們對這些能源項目的興趣。目前是否有 PCA 工廠向外部電力公司出售大量電力？這是否有可能成為您明年將要詳細介紹的項目或機會的一部分？

First part on your CapEx, we would expect as we finish up the two bigger projects, the one in Ohio and the one in New York State next year, CapEx will continue to be kind of flat in that range. We would probably take advantage of that opportunity. The good news is, and Tom has mentioned this and I've mentioned it, Greif gave us the opportunity with the CorrChoice converting side of their business. It's going to help us minimize what we have to do in some of these regions.

關於您的資本支出第一部分，我們預計，隨著明年俄亥俄州和紐約州兩個較大項目的完成，資本支出將繼續保持在該範圍內的平穩狀態。我們很可能會利用這個機會。好消息是，湯姆提到過這一點，我也提到過，Greif 給了我們機會，讓我們參與他們 CorrChoice 的轉換業務。這將有助於我們最大限度地減少在某些地區需要做的事情。

We will avoid having to spend some major pieces of capital on any new plants for the next couple of years. So in that regard, we'll continue to do some converting installations as far as EVOL some rotary die cutter type stuff, some corrugator opportunities. But as far as major plant projects, that will mitigate itself. And then I see the next couple of years, the big projects are going to be some of these energy projects. We'll take advantage of that. It's probably a 2.5-year process. We'll get into the details in January and the first part of next year.

未來幾年，我們將避免在新建工廠投入大量資金。因此，在這方面，我們將繼續進行一些轉換安裝，例如 EVOL 的一些旋轉模切機之類的設備，以及一些瓦楞紙板生產線的機會。但就大型工廠專案而言，這種情況會自行緩解。然後我預見，未來幾年，一些大型專案將會是能源專案。我們會利用這一點。這大概需要兩年半的時間。我們將在1月和明年上半年詳細討論這個問題。

But these are projects that have 1.5 years payback type projects, very, very high-return projects. But as far as the level of CapEx, we'll be in a very comfortable range, the amount of cash we're generating. I think, quite frankly, people are going to be asking us, what are you doing with all the cash on hand? That's going to be the high-class problem we get into. And so I'm not worried about the CapEx. All of our capital that we've been spending over the years -- we've got a very good track record of return on our investment with this CapEx spending. So as far as what you're modeling, just I would just continue to model what our trend has been, and we'll update you next year.

但這些都是投資回收期為 1.5 年的項目，是回報率非常非常高的項目。但就資本支出水準而言，鑑於我們產生的現金流，我們將處於非常舒適的範圍內。坦白說，我認為人們會問我們，你們打算如何處理手頭上的這麼多現金？這就是我們即將面臨的上流社會問題。所以我並不擔心資本支出。多年來，我們投入的所有資金——我們在資本支出方面都取得了非常好的投資回報記錄。所以，就你們的建模而言，我建議你們繼續按照我們目前的趨勢進行建模，明年我們會向你們報告最新情況。

There was one part -- your part of the question on electricity. No, we're not wheeling power into the grid at any of our facilities. We are -- we do have one facility in particular that's essentially 100% independent, but we're not wheeling power into the grid.

其中有一部分──你關於電的問題。不，我們沒有任何設施向電網輸送電力。我們確實有一個設施，它基本上是 100% 獨立的，但我們沒有向電網輸送電力。

Philip Ng, Jefferies.

Philip Ng，傑富瑞集團。

Appreciate all the great color. So Mark, you talked about potentially some of these energy projects in the next few years. And then obviously, you're going to do some great work at these Greif mills kind of get it up to PKG levels. And then you called out some of the inventory where it's a bit more elevated at Greif. So curious, when we think about '26, does that translate to more downtime than we should kind of be appreciative, which could potentially mute some of the EBITDA contribution from Greif.

欣賞這絢麗的色彩。馬克，你剛才提到了未來幾年可能會有一些能源項目。然後很顯然，你會在這些 Greif 工廠裡做出一些很棒的工作，把產量提升到 PKG 水平。然後你指出了格里夫的一些庫存，這些庫存位置比較高。所以很好奇，當我們考慮 2026 年時，這是否意味著比我們應該感到欣慰的更多的停工時間，這可能會削弱 Greif 的一些 EBITDA 貢獻。

I think Kent gave a number in that $240 million range plus synergies. So I just want to be mindful just because it was extra noise in the back half of this year. Is there a friction that we need to be thoughtful of that could be impactful next year?

我認為肯特給出的數字在 2.4 億美元左右，外加協同效應。所以我想提醒大家注意，因為今年下半年噪音比較大。是否存在我們需要考慮的、可能對明年產生影響的摩擦因素？

I think, again, the work we just did at Massillon for approximately 6 weeks really gave us a comprehensive look at the mill because we literally touched everything in that mill from the ceilings down to the U-drain sewers, everything was clean, touched, inspected, new lighting. And so in doing so, we understand what it is in terms of components, motors, pumps, rolls, systems on paper machines that we want to upgrade to the PCA standards. So we've already got our plan in place.

我認為，我們最近在馬西隆工廠進行的大約 6 週的工作，確實讓我們對這家工廠有了全面的了解，因為我們實際上接觸了工廠裡的每一個地方，從天花板到 U 型排水管道，所有東西都經過了清潔、觸摸和檢查，還安裝了新的照明設備。因此，透過這樣做，我們就能了解在造紙機的組件、馬達、泵浦、滾筒筒、系統方面，我們需要將哪些部分升級到 PCA 標準。所以我們已經制定好了計劃。

But these changes will take place on monthly outages. It's not the three-week outages required. It's the 24-hour outage and the annual outage for five or six days a week type of thing. So no, we'll be in good shape next year. Riverville is in a similar situation. We've got to just continue to take care of the mills, and we'll invest appropriately.

但這些變更將在每月停機維護期間進行。不需要像平常那樣停工三週。包括24小時停電和每週五六天的年度停電。所以，明年我們會一切順利。里弗維爾的情況也類似。我們必須繼續照顧好這些工廠，並進行適當的投資。

And -- but no, I'm bullish on the -- what we've got facing us for the next few years. No major -- we went through a 40-some-odd day outage at Jackson a few years ago, and we don't see any of that type of situation. So we'll be in good shape.

但是——不，我對未來幾年我們將面臨的挑戰持樂觀態度。沒什麼大問題——幾年前傑克遜核電廠發生過一次持續40多天的停電，我們目前還沒有看到類似的情況發生。所以我們會情況好轉。

So it sounds like you would largely be able to do the work that you want to do, whether it's energy projects and then, I guess, even taking down the inventory at Greif within the scope of your normal managed outage. It shouldn't be an outside year next year.

聽起來你基本上可以做你想做的工作，無論是能源項目，還是在正常停電期間對 Greif 的庫存進行清空。明年應該不會是室外年了。

Yes. No, I mean the inventory management, that will happen over the next couple of quarters as we work our way down. And like I say, that's just future upside for the business.

是的。不，我是指庫存管理，這將在接下來的幾個季度逐步進行。正如我所說，這只是公司未來的發展潛力。

Okay. Helpful. And then a question for Tom. You called out building math and beef being more problematic. Tom, can you size up how much of that of your box business is tied to those end markets? Are trends in those end markets getting worse, it's kind of bouncing along the bottom in the other categories, are you seeing order patterns pick up a bit? And how do you kind of envision your customers managing inventory to kind of close out the year?

好的。很有幫助。然後我問湯姆一個問題。你指出建築數學和牛肉才是更棘手的問題。湯姆，你能估算一下你的包裝盒業務中有多少是與這些終端市場相關的嗎？這些終端市場的趨勢是否正在惡化？其他類別的趨勢似乎在​​底部徘徊，您是否看到訂單模式有所回升？您設想您的客戶將如何管理庫存以完成年底的銷售？

Okay. Philip, number one is, I'm not going to give you what -- how much these segments are. I'm just -- I just told you they're relatively large segments for us, and those are the ones that are impacting us the most in beef and building products being down. But beef is more of a long-term thing. So it's going to take a little while. As I told you, the herds are down to 70-year lows, and these things take two to three years to rebuild, and we're only a year into the process. So that's going to take a little while.

好的。菲利普，首先，我不會告訴你這些部分的價格是多少。我只是——我剛才跟你說過，這些對我們來說都是相對較大的業務板塊，而且牛肉和建築產品業務的下滑對我們影響最大。但牛肉消費更多的是一種長期的消費行為。所以還需要一段時間。正如我之前告訴你們的，牛群數量已經降至 70 年來的最低點，而重建牛群需要兩到三年時間，我們才剛開始一年。所以這需要一些時間。

Building products, very reliant on what happens with interest rates and they're coming down and what the cost of materials are and how quickly things can be approved and those sorts of things in the nation. And the remodeling bottoming has begun to go the other way. So that's a good thing. The other segments that we're in have been pretty steady and steadily growing. And the -- our customers are pretty bullish on things going forward. So I think overall, I mean, our portfolio is in really good shape.

建築產品非常依賴利率的走勢（利率正在下降）、材料成本、審批速度以及國家層級的這些因素。而翻修工程的低谷期已經開始朝著相反的方向發展了。這是件好事。我們所處的其他領域都相當穩定，並且穩定成長。而且—我們的客戶對未來的發展前景非常樂觀。所以我覺得整體而言，我們的投資組合狀況非常好。

I mean I'm hearing from many of your customers that they have desires to kind of work down inventory to close out the year --

我的意思是，我從你們許多客戶那裡了解到，他們希望在年底前清理庫存。--

Yes, Philip, I forgot that part of your question. But our customers are already operating at very low inventory levels, and I think they would tell you that across the board. So that inventory is about -- is peeled down about as far as they can do it because, again, it goes back to all these things that have taken place during the year and the bumpy road we've been on with tariffs and all these other sorts of things. So I think our customers have been very cautious.

是的，菲利普，我忘了你問題裡的那部分。但我們的客戶目前的庫存水準已經非常低，我想他們會一致告訴你這一點。所以庫存已經盡可能地減少了，因為，再說一遍，這都和今年發生的所有事情以及我們在關稅和其他各種事情方面所經歷的坎坷道路有關。所以我認為我們的客戶一直都非常謹慎。

(Operator Instructions) This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Mark Kowlzan for any closing remarks.

（操作說明）問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給馬克·科爾贊先生，請他作總結發言。

I'd like to thank everybody for joining us today and appreciate it and look forward to talking with you all at the end of January. We're very, very pleased with where we are today with the acquisition and looking forward to having a good conversation with you in January. With that, have a good day, and have a great holiday period. Take care.

感謝各位今天蒞臨，我非常感激，並期待在一月底與大家再次交流。我們對目前的收購進展非常滿意，並期待在1月與您進行一次深入的交流。祝您今天過得愉快，假期愉快！小心。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議已經結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您現在可以斷開連線了。