PacWest Bancorp (PACW) 2023 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the PacWest Bancorp First Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. Today's conference is being recorded.

美好的一天，歡迎來到 PacWest Bancorp 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。今天的會議正在錄製中。

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Bill Black from PacWest Bancorp.

此時，我想將會議轉交給 PacWest Bancorp 的 Bill Black。

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to PacWest First Quarter 2023 Earnings Conference Call. With me today are Paul Taylor, President and CEO; and Kevin Thompson, our CFO.

謝謝。早上好，歡迎來到 PacWest 2023 年第一季度收益電話會議。今天和我在一起的是總裁兼首席執行官 Paul Taylor；和我們的首席財務官凱文湯普森。

Before I hand the call over to Paul, please note that we may make forward-looking statements during today's call that are subject to risks, uncertainties and assumptions. For a more complete discussion of the risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from any forward-looking statements, see our company's SEC filings, including the 8-K filed yesterday afternoon, which is also available on the company's website.

在我將電話轉給 Paul 之前，請注意，我們可能會在今天的電話會議上做出受風險、不確定性和假設影響的前瞻性陳述。有關可能導致實際結果與任何前瞻性陳述存在重大差異的風險和不確定性的更完整討論，請參閱我們公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括昨天下午提交的 8-K 文件，該文件也可在公司網站上找到。

I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Paul Taylor.

我想把電話轉給我們的首席執行官保羅泰勒。

Thank you, Bill, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to start by thanking our clients and team for their dedication to PacWest especially over these last 6 weeks, which have been a very challenging period of time for the banking industry, including PacWest Bancorp. Like many other banks, PacWest had an outflow of deposits immediately following the closure of the 2 large regional banks in early March. In response, we took swift action to enhance our liquidity and capital positions.

謝謝你，比爾，大家早上好。首先，我要感謝我們的客戶和團隊對 PacWest 的奉獻，尤其是在過去 6 週，這對包括 PacWest Bancorp 在內的銀行業來說是一段非常具有挑戰性的時期。像許多其他銀行一樣，PacWest 有一個3 月初兩家大型地區性銀行關閉後，存款立即流出。作為回應，我們迅速採取行動來增強我們的流動性和資本狀況。

To withstand the deposit outflows we saw in March, we focused on maximizing our balance sheet liquidity by accessing various resources. Deposits stabilized in the latter part of March and have rebounded nicely in April, increasing approximately $600 million subsequent to quarter end with over 80% of that in our community bank. Immediately available liquidity now exceeds our uninsured deposits with a coverage ratio of approximately 153%. Deposit growth has benefited from deposit campaigns in the community bank focused on savings accounts and CDs, as well as over 140 new business accounts opened in the Venture Bank since March 9.

為了抵禦我們在 3 月份看到的存款外流，我們專注於通過訪問各種資源來最大化我們的資產負債表流動性。存款在 3 月下旬穩定下來，並在 4 月反彈良好，季度末增加了約 6 億美元，其中 80% 以上在我們的社區銀行。立即可用的流動資金現在超過了我們未投保的存款，覆蓋率約為 153%。自 3 月 9 日以來，存款增長得益於社區銀行開展的以儲蓄賬戶和 CD 為重點的存款活動，以及風險銀行開設的 140 多個新企業賬戶。

To further bolster our deposit base, we kicked off initiatives to launch new depository channels, including a direct-to-consumer bank expected to be operational by the third quarter of 2023. Having addressed these pressures, we are now able to return to the initiatives under our renewed strategic plan we announced in January which will expedite PacWest evolution to focus on our core community bank franchise and deemphasize noncore businesses while intently focusing on reducing expenses on a smaller balance sheet.

為了進一步鞏固我們的存款基礎，我們啟動了推出新存款渠道的舉措，包括一家預計將於 2023 年第三季度投入運營的直接面向消費者的銀行。在解決了這些壓力之後，我們現在能夠恢復這些舉措根據我們在 1 月份宣布的新戰略計劃，該計劃將加快 PacWest 的發展，以專注於我們的核心社區銀行特許經營權並不再強調非核心業務，同時專注於減少較小資產負債表上的開支。

As such, we have begun to take actions, including moving our $2.8 billion lender finance business to held for sale and initiating the sale of approximately $650 million in civic loans. Once completed, these steps will significantly delever the balance sheet, further enhance our liquidity position and accelerate our strategy to increase the CET1 ratio to over 10%.

因此，我們已開始採取行動，包括將我們 28 億美元的貸方融資業務轉為持有待售，並開始出售約 6.5 億美元的公民貸款。一旦完成，這些步驟將顯著去槓桿化資產負債表，進一步增強我們的流動性頭寸，並加快我們將 CET1 比率提高到 10% 以上的戰略。

The market dynamics during the quarter caused a significant decline in regional bank stocks, ours included. As a result, we recorded a noncash $1.38 billion goodwill impairment charge. Despite these challenges, we are pleased with our adjusted financial results of EPS of $0.66 that exceed analyst estimates and we are continuing to leverage the core strength of our balance sheet.

本季度的市場動態導致區域銀行股大幅下跌，包括我們的股票。因此，我們記錄了 13.8 億美元的非現金商譽減值費用。儘管存在這些挑戰，我們對調整後每股收益 0.66 美元的財務結果感到滿意，超出了分析師的預期，並且我們將繼續利用資產負債表的核心優勢。

As we navigate the challenging industry dynamics, PacWest will continue to prioritize our customer relationships which have been the bedrock of our success for more than 20 years.

在應對充滿挑戰的行業動態時，PacWest 將繼續優先考慮我們的客戶關係，這是我們 20 多年來取得成功的基石。

Now I will turn it over to Kevin to review our financials in more detail.

現在我將把它交給凱文來更詳細地審查我們的財務狀況。

Thank you, Paul. As you mentioned, the market volatility in the quarter resulted in a significant decline in regional bank stocks. As a result, we recorded a goodwill impairment charge of $1.38 billion. It is important to note that goodwill is a noncash charge and has no impact on our regulatory capital ratios, cash flows or liquidity position. We also incurred severance and contract termination expenses of $8.5 million related to our strategic transformation initiatives. In total, this resulted in a net loss of $1.21 billion or $10.22 per diluted share. Adjusting for these unusual items, our earnings would have been $89.4 million or $0.66 per diluted share which demonstrates the strength of our underlying business.

謝謝你，保羅。正如您所提到的，本季度的市場波動導致地區銀行股大幅下跌。因此，我們記錄了 13.8 億美元的商譽減值費用。值得注意的是，商譽是一種非現金費用，對我們的監管資本比率、現金流量或流動性狀況沒有影響。我們還因戰略轉型計劃產生了 850 萬美元的遣散費和合同終止費用。總的來說，這導致淨虧損 12.1 億美元或攤薄後每股虧損 10.22 美元。對這些不尋常的項目進行調整後，我們的收益將達到 8940 萬美元或每股攤薄收益 0.66 美元，這證明了我們基礎業務的實力。

Total deposits decreased by $5.7 billion or 16.9% in the quarter due primarily to a $7.3 billion decrease in retail nonmaturity deposits and a $609 million decrease in wholesale nonmaturity deposits, offset partially by a $2.2 billion increase in time deposits. As Paul mentioned, deposits increased approximately $600 million subsequent to quarter end, mostly in the community bank. Total insured deposits represented approximately 73% of total deposits in mid-April, up from 48% at year-end.

本季度總存款減少 57 億美元或 16.9%，主要是由於零售非到期存款減少 73 億美元和批發非到期存款減少 6.09 億美元，部分被定期存款增加 22 億美元所抵消。正如保羅所提到的，季度末存款增加了大約 6 億美元，主要是在社區銀行。受保存款總額約佔 4 月中旬存款總額的 73%，高於年底的 48%。

We are holding a higher-than-usual amount of cash on balance sheet of $7 billion at quarter end. We anticipate bringing that balance down to more normalized levels over the next weeks.

截至季度末，我們在資產負債表上持有的現金數量高於往常，為 70 億美元。我們預計在接下來的幾週內將這種平衡降低到更正常的水平。

Total loans and leases decreased slightly to $28.5 billion this quarter as part of our continuing balance sheet management strategy. We've transferred the $2.8 billion of Lender Finance portfolio to held for sale to expedite the delevering of the balance sheet, giving us the ability to paydown excess borrowings. Between this and other asset sales, we expect to increase the CET1 ratio to above 10% over the next few months. With our solid underlying earnings this quarter, the CET1 ratio already increased 52 basis points to 9.22% at quarter end. Unrealized losses on the Company's Investment portfolio also improved, declined from $791 million in the fourth quarter to $736 million.

作為我們持續的資產負債表管理戰略的一部分，本季度貸款和租賃總額略有下降至 285 億美元。我們已將 28 億美元的 Lender Finance 投資組合轉為持有待售，以加快資產負債表的去槓桿化，使我們能夠償還超額借款。在這次和其他資產出售之間，我們預計在未來幾個月內將 CET1 比率提高到 10% 以上。憑藉我們本季度穩健的基礎收益，CET1 比率在季度末已增加 52 個基點至 9.22%。公司投資組合的未實現虧損也有所改善，從第四季度的 7.91 億美元降至 7.36 億美元。

Interest income increased $45 million or 9% in the quarter, with 42% of our loans having variable interest rate terms. We continue to see a positive loan beta trend with loan yields increasing 41 basis points to 6.14% in the quarter. This was offset by the cost of deposits, increasing 61 basis points to 1.98% in the same period.

本季度利息收入增加了 4500 萬美元或 9%，其中 42% 的貸款具有浮動利率條款。我們繼續看到積極的貸款貝塔趨勢，本季度貸款收益率上升 41 個基點至 6.14%。這被存款成本所抵消，同期增加 61 個基點至 1.98%。

As part of our actions to enhance our on-balance sheet liquidity in the latter part of the quarter, we utilize borrowings from the FHLB, the bank term funding program and temporarily from the Federal Reserve discount window. We also secured $1.4 billion in fully funded cash proceeds from ATLAS SP Partners through a new senior asset-backed financing facility, which unlocks liquidity from unencumbered, high-quality assets in an expeditious manner. These prudent actions impacted our interest expense in the quarter, which increased by $88 million to $239 million, resulting net interest margin decreased to 2.89%.

作為我們在本季度後期提高資產負債表內流動性的行動的一部分，我們利用 FHLB 的借款、銀行定期融資計劃和暫時從美聯儲貼現窗口借款。我們還通過一項新的高級資產支持融資工具從 ATLAS SP Partners 獲得了 14 億美元的全額現金收益，該工具以迅速的方式從未支配的優質資產中釋放流動性。這些謹慎的行動影響了我們本季度的利息支出，增加了 8800 萬美元至 2.39 億美元，導致淨息差下降至 2.89%。

The severance expense mentioned earlier is related to a reduction in force in our Civic business that was initiated in the first quarter. We expect an annualized decrease in expenses of approximately $32 million beginning in May as a result of these actions. We were already engaged in an operational efficiency strategy and we are now expediting these efforts to reduce facilities and vendors, optimize business processes and execute on other cost savings across the business in order to improve our profitability.

前面提到的遣散費與第一季度開始的思域業務裁員有關。由於這些行動，我們預計從 5 月開始的年化支出將減少約 3200 萬美元。我們已經制定了一項運營效率戰略，我們現在正在加快這些努力，以減少設施和供應商、優化業務流程並在整個企業中實施其他成本節約，以提高我們的盈利能力。

Excluding the goodwill impairment and severance and contract termination items, noninterest expense decreased by $4.4 million to $188 million in the quarter. This was mainly due to lower compensation expense offset by higher insurance, assessment and customer-related expenses. Credit metrics remained steady with the nonperforming asset ratio declining 3 basis points to 35 basis points.

排除商譽減值和遣散費以及合同終止項目，本季度非利息費用減少 440 萬美元至 1.88 億美元。這主要是由於較低的補償費用被較高的保險、評估和客戶相關費用所抵消。信貸指標保持穩定，不良資產比率下降 3 個基點至 35 個基點。

Finally, the allowance for credit loss ratio increased slightly to 1.11%.

最後，信貸損失準備金率小幅上升至1.11%。

This concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, could you please open the line for questions.

我們準備好的發言到此結束。接線員，請您打開問題熱線。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our first question comes from Chris McGratty with Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods.

我們的第一個問題來自 Chris McGratty 和 Keefe、Bruyette 和 Woods。

Paul, thanks for the color on the slide deck. The 10% bogey that you've laid out previously, it seems like you're going to get there with the sale of the Lender Finance portfolio. I'm interested, I guess, in a philosophical capital question, how is 10% -- what's your view on 10% being the right number today? I think some of your peers have even said 11%? And then maybe more broadly, the dividend obviously is elevated relative to current. How are we thinking just broadly about capital? I understand you also made an attempt to raise capital during the quarter.

保羅，感謝幻燈片上的顏色。你之前提出的 10% 的忌諱，看起來你將通過出售 Lender Finance 投資組合來實現這一目標。我想，我對一個哲學資本問題很感興趣，10% 是多少——你對 10% 是今天的正確數字有何看法？我想你的一些同行甚至說過 11%？然後也許更廣泛地說，股息明顯高於當前。我們如何從廣義上思考資本？我知道你在本季度也曾嘗試籌集資金。

Yes. So to address the 10% first, I mean, 10% has always been sort of a threshold for me. But I mean we will continue to build capital. I mean we're going to most likely exceed 10% here in the next few months once we finalize some of the asset sales we've talked about. But we will continue to go on from there. I think today, more capital is better. So we'll continue to grow capital.

是的。所以首先要解決 10%，我的意思是，10% 對我來說一直是一個門檻。但我的意思是我們將繼續建立資本。我的意思是，一旦我們完成了我們討論過的一些資產出售，我們很可能在接下來的幾個月裡超過 10%。但我們將繼續從那裡繼續下去。我認為今天，更多的資本更好。所以我們將繼續增加資本。

As you look at -- we did -- as you mentioned, we did look at raising capital. We -- at the time when this event first happened, is the positive event first happened in the banking industry. We really looked at everything. What should we do? What can we do? What are our options? Capital was one of the options we were looking at. But then we also looked at what we could do to the balance sheet. Even in our strategic plan, we had talked about operating a smaller balance sheet that would be more profitable.

正如你所看到的——我們做到了——正如你提到的，我們確實考慮過籌集資金。我們——在這個事件第一次發生的時候，是銀行業第一次發生的積極事件。我們真的看了一切。我們應該做什麼？我們可以做什麼？我們有哪些選擇？資本是我們正在考慮的選擇之一。但後來我們也研究了我們可以對資產負債表做些什麼。即使在我們的戰略計劃中，我們也曾討論過經營一個更有利可圖的更小的資產負債表。

So our goal is to shrink the balance sheet, get some of the ballooning out of the balance sheet, unfortunately, the wrong side of the balance sheet shrink, but the balance sheet has shrunk. So we're selling off some of these portfolios to get the balance sheet more in balance. And by doing that, we're creating capital, and we're also creating liquidity. So we're very happy with what we've done so far, especially after we will -- after we sell the portfolios. But at the end of the quarter, we're at 9.22%. So sort of the vision that we had has been accelerated pretty dramatically.

所以我們的目標是縮減資產負債表，從資產負債表中取出一些膨脹的部分，不幸的是，資產負債表錯誤的一面在收縮，但資產負債表已經縮小了。因此，我們正在出售其中一些投資組合，以使資產負債表更加平衡。通過這樣做，我們正在創造資本，我們也在創造流動性。因此，我們對迄今為止所做的事情感到非常滿意，尤其是在我們出售投資組合之後。但在本季度末，我們的比例為 9.22%。因此，我們的願景已經大大加快了。

And I'll add to that, CET1 ratio is very important. We're focused on that increasing that but all our capital ratios are important as well. Our total capital ratio is actually very strong at 14.22% and you'll see that's actually above a number of our peers. So we're very proud of that and happy with that. I just want to get the CET1 in line as well as an important element with the common equity in it.

我要補充一點，CET1 比率非常重要。我們專注於增加這一點，但我們所有的資本比率也很重要。我們的總資本比率實際上非常高，為 14.22%，您會發現這實際上高於我們的許多同行。因此，我們為此感到非常自豪和高興。我只想讓 CET1 符合要求，以及其中包含普通股的重要元素。

Yes. And as we looked at shrinking, it seemed like a much better economic situation for our shareholders.

是的。當我們看到萎縮時，這對我們的股東來說似乎是一個更好的經濟狀況。

Okay. The $35 billion you referenced in the press release, is that a total asset number? Or is that an earning asset number? I'm trying to map the earning asset with your comments of liquidity normalizing in the $3 billion portfolio. I'm just trying to get a sense of where earning assets are going to shake out.

好的。您在新聞稿中提到的 350 億美元是總資產數嗎？或者那是一個賺錢的資產編號？我正在嘗試將盈利資產與您對 30 億美元投資組合中流動性正常化的評論進行映射。我只是想了解收入資產將在何處發生變化。

So that is a total asset number.

這是一個總資產數。

So to get there, you need to shake out goodwill, our Lender Finance portfolio, some portions of our Civic portfolio about $650 million and then bringing our cash position down to a more normalized level?

因此，要實現這一目標，您需要擺脫商譽、我們的 Lender Finance 投資組合、我們約 6.5 億美元的 Civic 投資組合的某些部分，然後將我們的現金頭寸降至更正常的水平？

Yes. As you look at the balance sheet at the end of the quarter, I mean, there's a tremendous amount of cash. I mean our Fed account has about $7 billion in it. We chose to become very liquid going through this event. We didn't know how deep the event would go but now we can start sort of pulling those cash levels down. Balance sheet is about $44 billion as we sit and going through the steps that Kevin mentioned along with taking that cash out, brings it down to $35 billion, $36 billion.

是的。當您查看本季度末的資產負債表時，我的意思是，有大量現金。我的意思是我們的美聯儲賬戶中有大約 70 億美元。我們選擇通過這次活動變得非常流動。我們不知道事件會進行多深，但現在我們可以開始降低這些現金水平。資產負債表約為 440 億美元，因為我們坐下來並通過凱文提到的步驟以及取出現金，將其降至 350 億美元，360 億美元。

Okay. And pre-COVID -- or I'm sorry, pre (inaudible) your cash is about 5% right now. Is that kind of what you're thinking normal 5% on $35 billion or so?

好的。在 COVID 之前——或者我很抱歉，在（聽不清）之前，你的現金現在大約是 5%。你認為 350 億美元左右的 5% 是正常的嗎？

I think that's right. And we may be a little more conservative going forward in various ways. Obviously, uninsured deposits become a big focus in the entire banking industry. And so as we look at our liquidity stress testing that will probably have more severe treatment and the stress testing but we may hold a little more cash because of uninsured balances.

我認為這是對的。我們可能會以各種方式更加保守地前進。顯然，非保險存款成為整個銀行業的一大焦點。因此，當我們查看我們的流動性壓力測試時，可能會有更嚴格的處理和壓力測試，但由於未保險餘額，我們可能持有更多現金。

Yes. And our insured balances are about 73% of our deposits right now.

是的。我們的保險餘額目前約占我們存款的 73%。

Our next question comes from Matthew Clark with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Matthew Clark 和 Piper Sandler。

The first one for me is around the Lender Finance business. Can you quantify how much in the way of expenses you have tied to that business? And how quickly might those expenses come out?

對我來說，第一個是關於貸款人金融業務。您能量化與該業務相關的費用嗎？這些費用多快會出來？

Yes. So we have not quantified those expenses. It's a very small team in Chicago. And the balance is a little over $2.7 billion and we are in the process of selling it right now.

是的。所以我們沒有量化這些費用。這是芝加哥的一個非常小的團隊。餘額略高於 27 億美元，我們現在正在出售它。

Okay. And then did you have any Civic loan sales in the quarter? And if you did, at what price?

好的。然後你在本季度有任何 Civic 貸款銷售嗎？如果你這樣做了，價格是多少？

Yes, we did. Bill, do you want to take the exact dollar amount, sir?

是的我們做了。比爾，先生，您要取確切的金額嗎？

Yes. We sold about $300 million at roughly a 1 point gain.

是的。我們以大約 1 個百分點的收益賣出了大約 3 億美元。

Okay. Got it. And then in terms of the loans that are pledged against the ATLAS repo, can you update us on whether or not you plan to sell those underlying assets here in the coming months or quarters? And just trying to get a sense for timing and when you might be able to pay off that repo?

好的。知道了。然後就以 ATLAS 回購協議為抵押的貸款而言，您能否向我們更新您是否計劃在未來幾個月或幾個季度內在這裡出售這些基礎資產？只是想了解時間以及何時可以還清該回購協議？

Yes. So it needs to be paid, the loan terminates in December. And that's something we're considering right now. We're letting the balance sheet settle down a little bit with all the actions and sort of trauma that it's been through, but we're absolutely considering that.

是的。所以它需要支付，貸款在 12 月終止。這就是我們現在正在考慮的事情。我們正在讓資產負債表隨著它所經歷的所有行動和某種創傷而稍微穩定下來，但我們絕對在考慮這一點。

Okay. And then just on the balance sheet size as we get into next year. I mean, it sounds like you're going to get to $35 billion here in short order. I assume it continues to come down next year, but what do you think the balance sheet kind of stabilizes? And do you have an ROA target for next year, knowing this year is going to be a little subdued?

好的。然後就在我們進入明年的資產負債表規模上。我的意思是，聽起來你會在短期內達到 350 億美元。我假設明年它會繼續下降，但你認為資產負債表會穩定嗎？你是否有明年的 ROA 目標，知道今年會有點低迷？

Yes. We're working on that right now. We think that -- I mean, our prediction is that we're going to go into some type of recession here that will lead into next year. So we're more looking at sort of flattish type balance sheet going into next year.

是的。我們現在正在努力。我們認為 - 我的意思是，我們的預測是我們將在這裡進入某種類型的衰退，這將導致明年。因此，我們更多地關註明年的資產負債表。

Okay. And then just in terms of the borrowings, I mean, should we assume borrowings come down by $6 billion, $7 billion here in the upcoming quarter. Is that fair or plus or minus?

好的。然後就借款而言，我的意思是，我們是否應該假設下一季度的借款減少 60 億美元、70 億美元。這是公平的還是正負的？

I think it's more like $5 billion, $6 billion.

我認為它更像是 50 億美元，60 億美元。

Yes. I think we'll bring our cash down by that much, but then we'll also have the benefit of our Lender Finance and Civic sales as those happen, we'll use those to paydown wholesale funding and get that balance sheet over time. Also, we do anticipate some repatriation of some of our deposits over time. Our team is working really hard on that. We have different deposit campaigns and initiatives we're working on. And there is some outflow of some of the customers from SVB and there could be some potential upside for us there. So that could also benefit our balance sheet in terms of lower borrowing.

是的。我認為我們會減少那麼多現金，但隨後我們也會從 Lender Finance 和 Civic 銷售中受益，我們將用它們來償還批發資金並隨著時間的推移獲得資產負債表。此外，我們確實預計隨著時間的推移我們的一些存款會被匯回國內。我們的團隊正在為此努力工作。我們正在開展不同的存款活動和計劃。一些客戶從 SVB 流出，這對我們來說可能有一些潛在的好處。因此，就較低的借款而言，這也有利於我們的資產負債表。

Yes. And we've been successful as of, I think, the 24th we've brought back somewhere around $700 million in deposits. And on the venture side, we've opened up a lot of new -- a lot of new accounts, somewhere around 140 new accounts. It takes a little while for them to fund. But we're out there. We're talking to customers, we're talking to customers that have moved their money predominantly, but we're also talking to new customers.

是的。我認為，截至 24 日，我們已經取得了成功，我們已經收回了大約 7 億美元的存款。在風險投資方面，我們開設了很多新賬戶——很多新賬戶，大約有 140 個新賬戶。他們需要一點時間才能籌到資金。但我們在那裡。我們正在與客戶交談，我們正在與主要轉移資金的客戶交談，但我們也在與新客戶交談。

And we'll take our next question from the line of Jared Shaw with Wells Fargo Securities.

我們將從 Jared Shaw 和 Wells Fargo Securities 那裡接聽我們的下一個問題。

If you look at the -- what was the -- sorry, the echo -- what was the margin in March at the end of the quarter?

如果你看看 - 抱歉，迴聲是什麼 - 本季度末 3 月份的利潤率是多少？

End of the quarter, it was dipping into the low 280s. And of course, even in the 270s actually, as I look at my schedule here, and obviously, the borrowings came in the latter half of the quarter. So we'll see some pressure into the next quarter.

本季度末，它跌至 280 度的低點。當然，實際上，即使在 270 年代，正如我在這裡查看我的時間表一樣，很明顯，借貸是在本季度的後半段進行的。因此，我們將在下個季度看到一些壓力。

Yes. Okay. And then you answered the -- expect to see the borrowings come down at a rapid pace as cash comes down and as the proceeds from loan sales come in. What's the expectation? Or what should we be thinking about deposit growth from here with some of those initiatives that you spoke about? How should we think about dollars to deposits growing through the end of the year?

是的。好的。然後你回答了——預計隨著現金減少和貸款銷售收入的增加，借款會迅速減少。預期是什麼？或者我們應該如何考慮您談到的一些舉措從這裡開始存款增長？我們應該如何看待年底前美元存款的增長？

That as we look at that, we've talked a lot about that. That is incredibly hard to predict. There's -- it's sort of hard to figure out what happened to begin with. If you look at the deposit run, it was pretty pervasive throughout the industry. As I read people's press releases, I was pretty shocked at how pervasive it was. We've been pretty successful at bringing back $700 million. I think that over the year, I mean, it's probably going to be a few billion dollars, we hope, but we'll have to see.

當我們看到這一點時，我們已經談了很多。這很難預測。有——很難弄清楚一開始發生了什麼。如果你看一下存款擠兌，它在整個行業中非常普遍。當我閱讀人們的新聞稿時，我對它的普遍性感到非常震驚。我們已經相當成功地收回了 7 億美元。我認為在這一年中，我的意思是，我們希望它可能達到數十億美元，但我們必須拭目以待。

Okay. And then looking at on the loan growth side, this quarter, most of the gross growth was in disbursements. How should we think about the appetite for additional new loan production here? And what's the remaining unfunded commitments on the loan side?

好的。然後看看貸款增長方面，本季度，大部分增長都來自支付。我們應該如何考慮這裡對額外新貸款生產的需求？貸款方面剩餘的未融資承諾是多少？

Yes. So we've seen a decline in demand as we've moved into this year. But we're also -- even before this deposit event, we were trying to shrink the balance sheet, and we became very selective in our lending. And a couple of reasons there, we wanted to shrink, but we also feel that there's some kind of downturn recession, whatever you want to call it, in our not-so-distant future, and we wanted to prepare for that also.

是的。因此，隨著我們進入今年，我們看到需求下降。但我們也——甚至在這次存款事件之前，我們就試圖縮減資產負債表，我們在貸款方面變得非常有選擇性。有幾個原因，我們想收縮，但我們也覺得在我們不遠的將來會出現某種衰退衰退，無論你怎麼稱呼它，我們也想為此做好準備。

The unfunded commitments, Kevin, there...

沒有資金的承諾，凱文，那裡...

They dropped from above $11 billion to just about $9 billion in the quarter. Part of that is the moving of Lender Finance to about $400 million of that moving Lender Finance to held for sale. But also, we're just -- we're not funding new loans. Some of the loans we have on the books don't pencil anymore in terms of the unfunded portion. We anticipate that coming down over time. But you are correct. The fundings that are happening right now are the unfunded portions they were previous commitments. We do not plan to grow going forward as we kind of get through the recession, get our balance sheet restructured.

他們在本季度從超過 110 億美元下降到大約 90 億美元。其中一部分是將 Lender Finance 轉移到約 4 億美元，將 Lender Finance 轉移至持有待售。而且，我們只是 - 我們沒有為新貸款提供資金。我們賬面上的一些貸款在未融資部分方面不再用鉛筆表示。我們預計隨著時間的推移會下降。但你是對的。現在發生的資金是他們之前承諾的未資金部分。我們不打算隨著經濟衰退的到來而繼續增長，重組我們的資產負債表。

Okay. And then just finally for me, maybe a little more philosophically, when you look at the loans to equity funds and the outflow of deposits there. I guess, what's the sentiment or the appetite to keep lending to potentially customers that don't support the right side of the balance sheet as well? Is that an area we could see maybe a faster pull back in the future? Or do you think that there's actually maybe an opportunity there with the market disruption?

好的。最後對我來說，也許更哲學一點，當你看向股票基金的貸款和那裡的存款流出時。我想，繼續向不支持資產負債表右側的潛在客戶提供貸款的情緒或胃口是什麼？這是一個我們可以看到未來可能更快回調的區域嗎？或者你認為市場混亂實際上可能有機會嗎？

Yes. So I think there's a huge opportunity there. I think we have to manage that business differently. I mean, clearly, deposits aren't very similar to a normal community commercial bank deposits. So we've spent a lot of time analyzing those deposit outflows and trying to figure out where the floor is in that deposit base where they've got to keep on board. But we understand your question. That's something we're working on right now, but we will stay in the business. We see it as a great opportunity for both the right and left side of the balance sheet.

是的。所以我認為那裡有巨大的機會。我認為我們必須以不同的方式管理該業務。我的意思是，很明顯，存款與正常的社區商業銀行存款不太相似。因此，我們花了很多時間分析這些存款外流，並試圖找出他們必須留在船上的存款基地的底線。但我們理解你的問題。這是我們現在正在做的事情，但我們會繼續做下去。我們認為這對資產負債表的左右兩側都是一個很好的機會。

And Paul, maybe I can -- this is Mark Yung here. So in terms of equity funds, just to make sure, I mean, this has always been a kind of depository-focused program for us as opposed to other banks. And so even if you look at today, we're still kind of one-to-one there in terms of outs and deposits. So that focus continues very strongly going forward. And that depository programs focused on venture capital funds as opposed to private equity funds.

保羅，也許我可以——我是 Mark Yung。因此，就股票基金而言，只是為了確保，我的意思是，與其他銀行相比，這對我們來說一直是一種以存款為重點的計劃。因此，即使你看今天，我們在出局和存款方面仍然是一對一的。因此，這種關注會繼續非常強烈地向前發展。而且該存款計劃側重於風險投資基金，而不是私募股權基金。

And I'll just add, the interesting -- I'm fairly new here, and Paul and I have spent a lot of time speaking with clients through this process. I am so impressed with our client base and their loyalty to PacWest. There are a number of the venture banking deposits that didn't move a penny and love banking with us, and that includes our community banking side. People love banking with PacWest. We have a white glove treatment of our clients, a great reciprocal relationship. And so we're very focused on those clients to have those operating accounts, that relationship who've been loyal to us and we've been loyal to them and anticipate repatriating, as I mentioned before, some balances of clients who just temporarily move balances to be safe during this time.

我只想補充一點，有趣的是——我在這裡還很陌生，保羅和我在這個過程中花了很多時間與客戶交談。我們的客戶群和他們對 PacWest 的忠誠給我留下了深刻的印象。有許多風險銀行存款沒有動一分錢，而是喜歡我們的銀行業務，其中包括我們的社區銀行業務。人們喜歡 PacWest 的銀行業務。我們對客戶一視同仁，互惠互利。因此，我們非常關注那些擁有這些運營賬戶的客戶，這種關係一直忠於我們，我們一直忠於他們，並期待遣返，正如我之前提到的，一些只是暫時轉移的客戶餘額在此期間保持平衡是安全的。

Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Terrell with Stephens.

我們的下一個問題來自 Andrew Terrell 和 Stephens 的對話。

If I could start just on the dividend. Can you remind us just the roles after taking a GAAP loss? Does that preclude you from paying a common dividend? Or does it affect the preferred dividend at all? And then just with the focus on internal capital, I realize you're going to be building to 10% CET1 in pretty short order. But I guess, why not lower the dividend and help out that kind of capital glide path moving forward?

如果我能從紅利開始。你能提醒我們在 GAAP 虧損後的角色嗎？這會阻止您支付普通股息嗎？或者它是否會影響優先股？然後只關注內部資本，我意識到你將在很短的時間內將 CET1 提高到 10%。但我想，為什麼不降低股息並幫助這種資本滑行向前發展呢？

Yes. So once you take a hit like we've taken, you've got to just get a permission from the regulators to pay a dividend. But it's very perfunctory, if you will. But -- so that's in process for the first quarter.

是的。因此，一旦你像我們一樣受到打擊，你必須獲得監管機構的許可才能支付股息。但這是非常敷衍的，如果你願意的話。但是 - 所以這是第一季度的過程。

And as we look forward at a dividend, we have a regularly scheduled board meeting next week. And that's an agenda item to talk about and approve obviously, that's a Board decision.

當我們期待分紅時，我們將在下周定期召開董事會會議。顯然，這是一個需要討論和批准的議程項目，這是董事會的決定。

And I'll just add, there are various rules in terms of the different regular Federal Reserve, FDIC, state regulators have their different rules in different states of their different rules and what we can pay in dividends but regulators understand that goodwill write-down is a noncash event and not necessarily a threat to the underlying operational income of the company.

我只想補充一點，就不同的常規美聯儲、聯邦存款保險公司、州監管機構在不同的州有不同的規定以及我們可以支付的股息而言，有不同的規定，但監管機構明白商譽減記是非現金事件，不一定對公司的基本營業收入構成威脅。

Got it. Okay. If I can move over to expenses really quick. So the -- sounds like the actions taken this quarter are about $32 million improvement in the annual run rate. So $8 million or so a quarter. I guess, as we think about expenses into 2Q, obviously, before the Lender Finance sale, is $8 million off the run rate on a quarterly basis into 2Q a good way to think about the operating expenses? Or just given some of the commentary around expedition of the efficiency initiative. I guess, could we see expense improvement further than just an $8 million decline?

知道了。好的。如果我能很快轉移到開支上。所以 - 聽起來本季度採取的行動使年運行率提高了約 3200 萬美元。所以每季度 800 萬美元左右。我想，當我們考慮第二季度的費用時，顯然，在 Lender Finance 出售之前，第二季度每季度運行率降低 800 萬美元是否是考慮運營費用的好方法？或者只是給出一些關於效率倡議遠征的評論。我想，除了減少 800 萬美元之外，我們還能看到費用進一步改善嗎？

Yes. So I'll start with that, and then I'll let Kevin finish. But we've got a smaller balance sheet. So we absolutely need to accelerate the expense reduction plan. We had already started that. We've been looking at headcount. We've been looking at facilities in particular. PacWest has a lot of facilities across the country, some that are duplicative. So we're very aggressively attacking those, but you will continue to see throughout the remainder of this year, significant expense reductions.

是的。所以我將從這個開始，然後讓 Kevin 說完。但我們的資產負債表較小。所以我們絕對需要加快費用削減計劃。我們已經開始了。我們一直在關注人數。我們一直在特別關注設施。 PacWest 在全國有很多設施，有些是重複的。所以我們非常積極地攻擊那些，但你將在今年餘下的時間裡繼續看到顯著的費用削減。

I agree. It takes time for expense reductions to take effect. So in the fourth quarter, we had done some early retirements. We had wound on our premium finance and multifamily businesses. We start seeing those benefits really the latter end of first quarter and in the second quarter. In the first quarter, we did a reduction of course of over 200 people in our civic entity. We'll start seeing a $32 million annualized benefit to that starting in May.

我同意。費用削減需要時間才能見效。所以在第四季度，我們做了一些提前退休。我們的優質金融和多戶家庭業務受到了傷害。我們在第一季度末和第二季度開始真正看到這些好處。在第一季度，我們的公民實體當然減少了 200 多人。從 5 月開始，我們將開始看到 3200 萬美元的年化收益。

And so the things that we're working on, and again, we've mentioned we're working more expeditiously on our operational efficiency will take place over the next while. But I do want to reiterate, we're less focused on short-term earnings, and we are our long-term balance sheet strategy long-term profitability.

因此，我們正在做的事情，我們再次提到，我們正在更迅速地提高運營效率，這將在接下來的一段時間內進行。但我確實想重申，我們不太關注短期收益，我們的長期資產負債表策略是長期盈利能力。

Yes. Totally understood. Okay. And then just maybe a clarification. For the quarter-to-date deposit growth in 2Q, you guys referenced, I think, around $700 million. Was any of that broker deposit growth?

是的。完全明白了。好的。然後可能只是澄清一下。對於第二季度的季度至今存款增長，我認為你們提到了大約 7 億美元。經紀人存款有增長嗎？

And then if I could clarify on Page 4 of the presentation, it looks like the insured balances are up about $1.1 billion quarter-to-date, but the uninsured is off $400 million or so. Is there any movement from uninsured to insured included in that graph? Or so far in the second quarter, are you still seeing quarter-to-date net outflows in uninsured deposits?

然後，如果我可以在演示文稿的第 4 頁上澄清一下，看起來保險餘額在本季度迄今增加了約 11 億美元，但未保險餘額減少了 4 億美元左右。該圖中是否包含從未投保到投保的任何變化？或者在第二季度到目前為止，您是否仍然看到未投保存款的季度迄今淨流出？

Yes. So the $700 million that we've grown has no brokered wholesale deposits of any kind. Those are customer deposits that we've brought in.

是的。因此，我們增長的 7 億美元沒有任何形式的經紀批發存款。這些是我們帶來的客戶存款。

That's right. And uninsured has been fairly -- uninsured and insured balance has been fairly steady over the past number -- a few weeks.

這是正確的。幾週以來，未投保的人數一直相當——未投保和投保的餘額在過去的數字中一直相當穩定。

Our next question comes from the line of Christopher Marinac with Janney Montgomery Scott.

我們的下一個問題來自 Christopher Marinac 和 Janney Montgomery Scott 的台詞。

Paul, I just wanted to ask about the core community bank and to what extent you can give us some more information about the granularity of your lending and how that can play out as you go through this recession scenario over the next few quarters?

保羅，我只是想問一下核心社區銀行，你能在多大程度上向我們提供更多關於你的貸款粒度的信息，以及在接下來的幾個季度中，當你經歷這種衰退情景時，這將如何發揮作用？

Yes. So when you look at the core community bank of PacWest, I mean it's $14 billion -- $15-billion bank. It's predominantly located in Southern California. And it's a really great bank. I mean, it's a nicely balanced bank. It's got lots of granularity. We do have some bigger accounts in there, both on the deposit side and on the loan side. And keep in mind that this deposit outflows, it was mostly in the venture bank and a smaller amount in the community bank.

是的。因此，當您查看 PacWest 的核心社區銀行時，我的意思是它是 140 億美元——150 億美元的銀行。它主要位於南加州。這是一家非常棒的銀行。我的意思是，這是一家非常平衡的銀行。它有很多粒度。我們確實有一些更大的賬戶，包括存款方和貸款方。請記住，這種存款流出，主要是在風險銀行，少量在社區銀行。

PacWest is about 22 years old. It's got very -- when I first came on board, several months ago. I mean, the shocking thing was the longevity of customers and the loyalty of customers in that community bank space to PacWest. As Kevin mentioned, he called a white glove service, but our guys out in the field and the community bank, they're great at producing business, they're great at taking care of customers. So there is definitely some granularity, but there's also some larger customers in there.

PacWest 大約有 22 年的歷史。幾個月前，當我第一次上船時，它非常 - 。我的意思是，令人震驚的是客戶的壽命以及社區銀行領域客戶對 PacWest 的忠誠度。正如凱文提到的，他稱之為白手套服務，但我們在外地和社區銀行的人，他們擅長開展業務，擅長照顧客戶。所以肯定有一些粒度，但也有一些更大的客戶。

And I will add, if you look at our balance sheet, 50% of it is extremely low risk historically asset classes. And then unfortunately, coming with that comes low yields. But you look at that 20% of our loan book is multifamily, mostly in California. Very good experience there in terms of the worst recessions and multifamily performance. Then you look at our single-family mortgage, also very low LTVs, high-quality FICOs, our premium finance business, our Lender Finance business, fund finance. This is 50% of our portfolio that has great history through recessions.

我要補充一點，如果你看一下我們的資產負債表，其中 50% 是歷史上風險極低的資產類別。不幸的是，隨之而來的是低收益。但是你看我們的貸款簿中有 20% 是多戶家庭，主要在加利福尼亞州。就最嚴重的經濟衰退和多戶家庭的表現而言，那裡的經驗非常好。然後你看看我們的單戶抵押貸款，還有非常低的 LTV、高質量的 FICO、我們的優質金融業務、我們的貸款金融業務、基金金融。這是我們投資組合中 50% 的資產，它們在經濟衰退期間有著輝煌的歷史。

Great. And if we look at the criticized and classified ratios that you disclosed, would they be similar at the community bank? Or would they, in fact, be better?

偉大的。如果我們看看你披露的批評和分類比率，它們在社區銀行是否相似？或者它們實際上會更好嗎？

They would be similar, I believe, yes, they would be similar.

他們會很相似，我相信，是的，他們會很相似。

Our next question comes from the line of Brandon King with Truist Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Brandon King。

So I wanted to follow up on the quarter-to-date deposit growth in customers. Could you elaborate more on how you're able to achieve that growth? And if it was more rate-driven or relationship driven? And what kind of accounts you grew in? Was it time deposits or CDs or checking accounts?

所以我想跟進客戶的季度存款增長情況。您能否詳細說明您是如何實現這種增長的？如果它更受利率驅動或關係驅動？你在什麼樣的賬戶中成長？是定期存款、CD 還是支票賬戶？

Yes. So the majority of the deposit growth was in money market accounts and CD accounts. And it's a combination of existing customers and also new customers. I would say it was driven partly by rate and partly by relationship. We did go out with a very nice rate on CDs and the money market in order to drive some of those balances back to the bank. We went out with a high rate to get everybody's attention, which worked and now we've been lowering the rate, but we're still having that continued growth. So I'm very encouraged by the amount of deposit growth.

是的。因此，大部分存款增長來自貨幣市場賬戶和定期存單賬戶。它是現有客戶和新客戶的組合。我會說這部分是由利率驅動的，部分是由關係驅動的。我們確實在 CD 和貨幣市場上以非常優惠的利率出局，以便將其中一些餘額轉回銀行。我們以很高的速度出去吸引大家的注意力，這很有效，現在我們一直在降低速度，但我們仍然在持續增長。所以我對存款增長的數量感到非常鼓舞。

And also, we haven't talked about this much, but in the first quarter, generally, we see seasonal outflow of deposits, that's a period when people are paying taxes, people are paying bonuses and things like that. So we expected to see deposits down during that period, and we'll start to see some seasonal inflows starting in the second quarter.

而且，我們還沒有談論太多，但在第一季度，一般來說，我們會看到存款的季節性外流，這是人們納稅、支付獎金和類似事情的時期。因此，我們預計在此期間存款會下降，我們將在第二季度開始看到一些季節性資金流入。

Good point. Got it. Got it. And could you -- I'm not sure if you've disclosed this, but what was the spot rate on deposits at the end of the quarter?

好點子。知道了。知道了。你能不能——我不確定你是否透露過這一點，但本季度末存款的即期利率是多少？

The spot rate right at the end of the quarter was about 2.3% on total deposits.

本季度末的即期利率約為總存款的 2.3%。

Got it. Got it. And then last question, just strategically, philosophically, what is kind of a target payout ratio that you are envision for the bank kind of in a normal environment, Paul?

知道了。知道了。然後最後一個問題，從戰略上，哲學上，你在正常環境下為銀行設想的目標支付率是什麼樣的，保羅？

As we look forward, we're just -- we're looking at it. We've got to do a little balance sheet reconstruction. So that's something that we are exploring next week at the Board meeting.

當我們展望未來時，我們只是 - 我們正在研究它。我們必須做一點資產負債表重建。這就是我們下週在董事會會議上要探討的問題。

Our next question comes from the line of Gary Tenner with D.A. Davidson.

我們的下一個問題來自 Gary Tenner 和 D.A.戴維森。

Question on the Lender Finance pending sale. It says in the deck that the transaction is expected to close within 1 to 2 months. Should we read that as though there is a contractual sale in place? Or is that process still underway?

關於 Lender Finance 待售的問題。它在甲板上說，交易預計將在 1 到 2 個月內完成。我們是否應該將其解讀為存在合同銷售？或者這個過程仍在進行中？

So we do not have a contractual sale in place. We have conducted a process. We're in the middle of the process right now. And there does appear to be some real genuine interest there.

所以我們沒有合同銷售。我們進行了一個過程。我們現在正處於流程的中間。那裡似乎確實有一些真正的興趣。

Okay. And it looks like there was no mark placed on those loans transferred. Is that correct?

好的。看起來那些轉移的貸款沒有任何標記。那是對的嗎？

There was no mark.

沒有標記。

That's correct. We're expecting a par or a better bid.

這是正確的。我們期待一個平價或更好的出價。

Okay. Great. And then longer term, when you announced your strategic shift and initiatives back in January, you talked about a long-term ROA target in the 150-range. I imagine you all have been through several iterations of planning over the last month or so and what that might look like. Can you give us any updated thoughts on where that number could be in '24, '25 based on kind of the current trajectory and what your plans are balance sheet-wise as opposed to maybe the 150 that you were at previously?

好的。偉大的。然後從長遠來看，當您在 1 月份宣布戰略轉變和舉措時，您談到了 150 範圍內的長期 ROA 目標。我想你們在過去一個月左右的時間裡都經歷過幾次計劃迭代，以及這可能是什麼樣子。您能否根據當前軌蹟的種類以及您的資產負債表計劃而不是您之前的 150 個，向我們提供關於該數字在 24 年、25 年的最新想法？

Yes. So after this event, I mean, clearly, those plans to get to those types of levels have extended a bit. We're still in the middle of modeling, forecasting forward even going through 2025. We're looking at. But it's sort of difficult to forecast that right now. The market is settling down, but it's still got some settling to do. Our balance sheet needs to settle down and get through the sales and everything. But we're not releasing guidance on that at this point in time.

是的。所以在這次活動之後，我的意思是，很明顯，那些達到這些級別的計劃已經延長了一些。我們仍處於建模過程中，預測甚至會持續到 2025 年。我們正在研究。但現在很難預測。市場正在穩定下來，但仍有一些事情要做。我們的資產負債表需要安定下來並通過銷售和一切。但我們目前不會就此發布指導。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our next question comes from the line of Jon Arfstrom with RBC Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 RBC Capital Markets 的 Jon Arfstrom。

I wanted to ask a question, kind of a backward question, I guess, on the reduction in assets. You have a borrowings table in your press release that shows that $10 billion increase in borrowings, and it shows the FHLB increase the bank term funding, the repurchase agreement. And maybe another way to ask this question is, what do you think that looks like in a quarter that $11.8 billion in borrowings, where do you reduce it? And how much can you reduce that by?

我想問一個問題，我想是一個落後的問題，關於資產的減少。你的新聞稿中有一張借款表，顯示借款增加了 100 億美元，它顯示 FHLB 增加了銀行定期融資，即回購協議。也許問這個問題的另一種方式是，你認為在一個季度的 118 億美元借款中會是什麼樣子，你會在哪裡減少它？你能減少多少？

So it's probably going to go down by at least $5 billion without the loan sales. And then if you factor in the loan sales, it could go down further from there. When we entered this event, we decided to be as absolutely liquid as we possibly could. We didn't go through the -- we didn't want to -- we didn't have any idea of how deep this event was going to go, but we're in the process of backing down liquidity this month right now.

因此，如果沒有貸款銷售，它可能會減少至少 50 億美元。然後，如果你考慮到貸款銷售，它可能會進一步下降。當我們參加這個活動時，我們決定盡可能保持流動性。我們沒有經歷——我們不想——我們不知道這個事件會發展到多深，但我們本月正處於減少流動性的過程中。

In terms of which order it would be in, it probably -- we'd start with FHLB. The bank term funding program is a fantastic program that the Federal Reserve put in place, very impressed with that approach. It's very favorable. And so it makes sense for us to utilize the lower rate you can see there and the flexibility there and the ability to use par over time, but we'll also bring that down over time as well as we deleverage the balance sheet.

就它的順序而言，它可能——我們將從 FHLB 開始。銀行定期融資計劃是美聯儲實施的一項出色計劃，對這種方法印象深刻。非常優惠。因此，對我們來說，利用那裡可以看到的較低利率、那裡的靈活性以及隨著時間的推移使用面值的能力對我們來說是有意義的，但我們也會隨著時間的推移降低它，同時我們也會去槓桿化資產負債表。

And the secret here is, as we all know, we've got to rebuild deposits as quick as we possibly can.

眾所周知，這裡的秘密是，我們必須盡快重建礦床。

Any restrictions on bringing down, I mean the repurchase agreement stands out at 8.5%. What do you need to do to start to bring that down?

對降低的任何限制，我的意思是回購協議以 8.5% 的價格脫穎而出。你需要做什麼才能開始降低它？

It matures in December, Jon.

它在十二月成熟，喬恩。

Okay. So the -- is there a restriction on bringing that down early prepayment penalties or anything like that...

好的。那麼 - 是否有限制降低提前預付款罰款或類似的......

That is just a prepayment penalty. It's a prepayment penalty.

那隻是提前還款罰款。這是預付款罰款。

So we should assume that hangs around?

所以我們應該假設掛起？

It's Matt. We'll figure it out as we get there and as we delever the balance sheet.

是馬特。當我們到達那裡並去槓桿化資產負債表時，我們會弄清楚。

Yes. Okay. And then just back to the margin. I know this is difficult, but it feels to me like if you fully load the margin for the incremental interest expenses that your margin dips into the low 2s. I know that isn't really fair. But when you start to unwind some of these borrowings maybe you're in a mid-2s type margin level for a run rate for the second quarter. I know it's incredibly difficult, but it's probably the 1 linchpin to a lot of this that I think we want to figure out.

是的。好的。然後回到邊緣。我知道這很困難，但我覺得如果你為增加的利息支出完全加載保證金，你的保證金就會降至 2s 的低點。我知道這真的不公平。但是，當你開始解除其中一些借款時，第二季度的運行率可能處於 2s 中期的保證金水平。我知道這非常困難，但這可能是我認為我們想要弄清楚的很多事情的關鍵。

Well, with the -- we're already basically over with April. So I think you're going to see the margin in the second quarter be below the mid-2s and somewhere between the lower 2s and mid-2s. And then in the third quarter, I think that you'll see it improve a lot more.

好吧，隨著 - 我們已經基本上結束了四月。所以我認為你會看到第二季度的利潤率低於 mid-2s，介於 lower 2s 和 mid-2s 之間。然後在第三季度，我認為你會看到它有更大的進步。

But it depends on many of our actions, the timing of loan sales and other things that we do. And we, of course, we have mentioned this, in an expeditious manner. We were already working on this, but we're working very hard on expense cuts, asset sales, rebalancing the balance sheet and so it depends on a lot of that and the strategy that we're able to execute over time.

但這取決於我們的許多行動、貸款銷售的時間以及我們所做的其他事情。當然，我們已經以迅速的方式提到了這一點。我們已經在努力解決這個問題，但我們正在努力削減開支、出售資產、重新平衡資產負債表，所以這取決於很多事情以及我們能夠隨著時間的推移執行的戰略。

Okay. Okay. That's very helpful. And I guess so the message is we should have low expectations, lower profitability for Q2? And then as you unwind some of this, we're going to see some improvement in Q3. Is that fair?

好的。好的。這很有幫助。我想信息是我們應該對第二季度有較低的預期，較低的盈利能力？然後當你放鬆其中一些時，我們將在第三季度看到一些改進。這公平嗎？

Yes. I think that's fair. We're moving as fast as we can. But it's sort of a crazy market today.

是的。我認為這很公平。我們正在盡可能快地行動。但今天這是一個瘋狂的市場。

Yes, I think we're more focused on trying to maximize what we can put forth in '24 than any quarterly number in '23.

是的，我認為與 23 年的任何季度數字相比，我認為我們更專注於嘗試最大限度地提高 24 年的產出。

Protect the balance sheet, prepare the balance sheet for '24 or more.

保護資產負債表，為 24 小時或更長時間準備資產負債表。

Okay. Okay. All is helpful. And then just one more on credit. Are you seeing anything changing? I know you've been asked this a lot, but anything that you're concerned about or worried about at least in the very near term on credit?

好的。好的。一切都是有幫助的。然後再貸一次。你看到有什麼變化嗎？我知道您已經被問了很多次，但是至少在短期內您對信貸有什麼擔心或擔心的嗎？

Credit has really held up. I mean, PacWest is incredible at credit. I'm sort of a new guy. But I mean, I'm very impressed with the credit process and our Chief Credit Officer. So I just don't see any change. I mean, clearly, with interest rates rising, there's going to be some stress out there. I mean, in a very short period of time, interest rates have dramatically changed. So there's going to be some stress out there for sure. But as we sit here today, we're in pretty good shape.

信用確實堅挺。我的意思是，PacWest 的信譽令人難以置信。我是個新人。但我的意思是，我對信貸流程和我們的首席信貸官印象深刻。所以我只是看不到任何變化。我的意思是，很明顯，隨著利率上升，會有一些壓力。我的意思是，在很短的時間內，利率發生了巨大變化。所以肯定會有一些壓力。但當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們的狀態非常好。

Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Terrell with Stephens.

我們的下一個問題來自 Andrew Terrell 和 Stephens 的對話。

Follow-up here. Do you have much of the quarterly cash flow is from the bond book? And then I guess, as you work capital upwards, if you surpass kind of 10% CET1 number, you felt there's more opportunities, especially with yields flowing back some to reposition portions of the bond book in coming quarters?

跟進這裡。你有很多季度現金流來自債券簿嗎？然後我猜，當你增加資本時，如果你超過 10% 的 CET1 數字，你會覺得有更多的機會，特別是隨著收益率回流一些以在未來幾個季度重新定位部分債券簿？

Well, again, that's something we're looking at. I would love to reposition the bond portfolio. It's pretty costly today, although the AOCI declined in this quarter, it's a pretty costly thing. But yes, we look at that almost daily. We look at loans, any asset we can sell at this point in time. But that we're absolutely looking at that.

好吧，這也是我們正在研究的事情。我很樂意重新定位債券投資組合。今天的成本很高，儘管本季度 AOCI 有所下降，但這是一件成本很高的事情。但是，是的，我們幾乎每天都會看。我們查看貸款，我們此時可以出售的任何資產。但我們絕對在關注這一點。

And the quarterly cash flow on the bond portfolio between maturities, paydowns, accretion, et cetera, is about $70 million.

到期、償還、增值等債券組合的季度現金流量約為 7000 萬美元。

This concludes today's question-and-answer session. I will turn the call back for any additional or closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。如果有任何補充或結束評論，我將轉回電話。

Well, we'd like to thank all of you for calling in and your interest in PacWest. We here are very excited about PacWest. We've gone through a very interesting deposit event here. I've not been through that in my 40-year career at this type of level. But rest assured, we will bring back great profitability back to PacWest as quick as humanly possible. We're working on a number of things, as we've talked about here and those should come to fruition fairly quickly.

好吧，我們要感謝你們所有人的來電以及你們對 PacWest 的興趣。我們在這裡對 PacWest 感到非常興奮。我們在這裡經歷了一個非常有趣的存款事件。在我 40 年的職業生涯中，我還沒有經歷過這種級別的比賽。但請放心，我們將盡快為 PacWest 帶來巨大的盈利能力。正如我們在這裡討論的那樣，我們正在做很多事情，這些事情應該很快就會實現。

And we really appreciate you calling in.

我們非常感謝您的來電。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。