Natuzzi SpA (NTZ) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Natuzzi S.p.A. first-quarter 2024 financial results. (Operator Instructions)

美好的一天，女士們先生們。謝謝你的支持。歡迎閱讀 Natuzzi S.p.A. 2024 年第一季財務表現。（操作員說明）

Joining us on today's call are Mr. Antonio Achille, Natuzzi's Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Carlo Silvestri, Chief Financial Officer of the Natuzzi Group; Ms. Pasquale Natuzzi, Founder and Executive Chairman; Mr. Mario de Gennaro, Chief HR Organization and Legal Officer; Mr. Diego Babbo, Global Retail Division Officer; and Piero Direnzo, Investor Relations. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

參加今天電話會議的還有 Natuzzi 執行長 Antonio Achille 先生； Natuzzi集團財務長Carlo Silvestri先生； Pasquale Natuzzi女士，創辦人兼執行主席； Mario de Gennaro 先生，首席人力資源組織兼法律長；迭戈‧巴博 (Diego Babbo) 先生，全球零售部官員；和皮耶羅·迪倫佐（Piero Direnzo），投資者關係部。提醒一下，今天的通話正在錄音。

I'd like to turn the call over to Piero. Please go ahead.

我想把電話轉給皮耶羅。請繼續。

Thank you, Kevin, and good day to everyone. Thank you for joining the Natuzzi's conference call for the 2024 first-quarter financial results. After a brief introduction, we will give room for the Q&A session. Before proceeding, we would like to advise our listeners that our discussion today could contain certain statements that constitute forward-looking statements under the United States Security laws.

謝謝你，凱文，祝大家有美好的一天。感謝您參加 Natuzzi 2024 年第一季財務業績電話會議。簡單介紹後，我們將安排問答環節。在繼續之前，我們想提醒聽眾，我們今天的討論可能包含某些構成美國安全法規定的前瞻性聲明的聲明。

Obviously, actual results might differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements because of risks and uncertainties that can affect our results of operations and financial condition. Please refer to our most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the SEC for a complete review of those risks.

顯然，由於可能影響我們的經營業績和財務狀況的風險和不確定性，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。請參閱我們向 SEC 提交的最新 20-F 表格年度報告，以了解這些風險的完整審查。

The company assumes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking matters discussed during this call.

本公司不承擔更新或修改本次電話會議中討論的任何前瞻性事項的義務。

And now I would like to turn the call over to the company's Chief Executive Officer. Please, Antonio.

現在我想把電話轉給公司的執行長。拜託，安東尼奧。

Thank you, Piero. Welcome, everyone, and good morning for people joining from US. Good afternoon from people joining from Europe. I will start by highlighting some of the figure of the first quarter 2024 and then provide more transparency on the strategic agenda and operational agenda myself, and the team is focusing on.

謝謝你，皮耶羅。歡迎大家，來自美國的朋友早安。來自歐洲的朋友們下午好。我將首先強調 2024 年第一季的一些數字，然後提供更多關於我本人以及團隊正在關注的策略議程和營運議程的透明度。

So we closed the first quarter 2024 with invoice sales pretty much in line with the previous year at around EUR84.5 million. If we look at that split by geography, US and China and the remaining geographies are above last year, South and West Europe and emerging markets are the geography that reported lower sales versus last year.

因此，我們在 2024 年第一季結束時的發票銷售額與前一年基本持平，約 8,450 萬歐元。如果我們按地區劃分，美國和中國以及其餘地區的銷售額均高於去年，那麼南歐和西歐以及新興市場的銷售額與去年相比有所下降。

Clearly, when we talk about emerging markets, we include Russia and it's clearly a region where there is still a very significant geopolitical turbulence as well as when we talk about emerging markets, we talked about the Middle East area. And Europe is also in a sense, closer to those dynamics.

顯然，當我們談論新興市場時，我們包括俄羅斯，它顯然是一個仍然存在非常嚴重的地緣政治動盪的地區，當我們談論新興市場時，我們談論的是中東地區。從某種意義上說，歐洲也更接近這些動態。

In terms of sales, I believe it's important to highlight that sales from directly operated stores, so the store that we own and operate directly have been growing of EUR20 million -- sorry, arrive at EUR20 million, growing 13% versus first quarter same period year and 10% versus 2022 that, as you know, was still a very strong year.

在銷售額方面，我認為重要的是要強調直營店的銷售額，因此我們擁有和直接經營的商店已經增長了 2000 萬歐元 - 抱歉，達到 2000 萬歐元，比第一季度同期增長了 13%與2022 年相比，成長了10%，正如你所知，2022 年仍然是非常強勁的一年。

This doesn't happen by chance, but happens because as we declared several times, we continue executing our strategy to become a more retailer-centric company. And in particular, that's true for North America, where the directly operated sales grew by nearly 30% versus the first quarter 2023 and 32% versus the first quarter of 2022.

這不是偶然發生的，而是因為正如我們多次聲明的那樣，我們將繼續執行我們的策略，成為一家更以零售商為中心的公司。尤其是北美地區，其直營銷售額較 2023 年第一季成長近 30%，較 2022 年第一季成長 32%。

Again, let me restate that retail in US are toward a very central to our future development strategy. Another element I would like to highlight is that despite the low level of sales, we have been improving on gross margin. Gross margin reached almost 37%, almost 37%, which is almost 1.5 percentage point above 2023, and this is almost 7 point percentage above 2019. This is important and is again another element of our strategy around value creation.

我再次重申，美國零售業是我們未來發展策略的核心。我想強調的另一個因素是，儘管銷售額較低，但我們的毛利率一直在增加。毛利率達近37%，近37%，比2023年高出近1.5個百分點，比2019年高出近7個百分點。這很重要，也是我們價值創造策略的另一個要素。

The gross margin and the level of sales led us to an operating profit of EUR0.6 million, which compared to a loss of EUR0.9 million in 2023 and a loss of EUR3 million versus pre-COVID level 2019. When we look at the operating profit, it's more difficult to compare to the year in between because there has been a lot of one-off support measures and restructuring measure that affected those figures.

毛利率和銷售水準使我們實現了 60 萬歐元的營業利潤，而 2023 年為虧損 90 萬歐元，與 2019 年新冠疫情爆發前的水準相比，虧損為 300 萬歐元。當我們查看營業利潤時，與中間年份進行比較更加困難，因為有許多一次性支援措施和重組措施影響了這些數據。

Another element which is worth fleshing out is that we continue executing or strategy. So in the first quarter, some 94 resources left the company, bringing to almost 18%, the total reduction that we reported and achieved since 2021. This is, I would say, the overall profile of the quarter. I will not spend too many word on the context that, as you know, you are very seasonal investors and following closer what's happening.

另一個值得充實的要素是我們繼續執行或策略。因此，在第一季度，約有 94 項資源離開了公司，使我們自 2021 年以來報告並實現的總減少量達到近 18%。我想說，這就是本季的整體情況。我不會花太多的時間來說明這一點，如您所知，您是非常季節性的投資者，並且會密切關注正在發生的事情。

Clearly, the markets are not yet bouncing back because the interest rates remain where they are, and we are very much depending on real estate. But I will not spend a word on that. I would rather engage with you on being explicit on what we are working on in terms of management team. And in particular, we are working on eight pillars.

顯然，市場尚未反彈，因為利率保持不變，我們非常依賴房地產。但我不會對此多花一句話。我寧願與您交流，明確我們在管理團隊方面正在進行的工作。特別是，我們正在八個支柱上開展工作。

The first one, as I mentioned, is expanding margin and lowering our breakeven point. We improved of 1 percentage points our gross margin since 2019. And this has been achieved regardless of the fact that we don't have our factories in Italy saturated and also regardless of the fact that 2021, 2022 were the years of unprecedented high inflation.

正如我所提到的，第一個是擴大利潤率並降低我們的損益平衡點。自 2019 年以來，我們的毛利率提高了 1 個百分點。儘管我們在義大利的工廠尚未飽和，而且 2021 年、2022 年是前所未有的高通膨年份，但我們還是實現了這個目標。

So if we would normalize for those element, the improvement would have been more in the range of 10 percentage points of gross margin. That is important because basically we lower the procurement of the company of some hundred million in terms of revenue required to breakeven on a yearly base.

因此，如果我們將這些因素標準化，毛利率的改善幅度將在 10 個百分點左右。這很重要，因為基本上我們每年將公司的採購量減少了數億美元，以實現盈虧平衡所需的收入。

This means that when we achieve growth, that growth would be very healthy in terms of margin conversion and cash comparison. And this is not yet the end of the story because we continue working in expanding the margin and I believe we're going to be achieving our internal results, which are to continue this kind of trajectory for the next years.

這意味著當我們實現成長時，就利潤率轉換和現金比較而言，這種成長將非常健康。這還不是故事的結局，因為我們繼續努力擴大利潤，我相信我們將實現我們的內部成果，這些成果將在未來幾年繼續這種軌跡。

The other pillar we are pretty much working on in the context of low traffic is leverage our brand strength. We just commissioned a survey performed by independent market research which reconfirmed what was already been highlighted a few years ago, which is a very strong positioning of Natuzzi among European and even domestic brands in market like US, where Natuzzi is ranked 1st brand among European brands. Same is true for China and same is true for most European market.

在流量較低的情況下，我們正在努力的另一個支柱是利用我們的品牌實力。我們剛剛委託獨立市場研究機構進行了一項調查，該調查再次證實了幾年前已經強調的內容，即Natuzzi 在歐洲甚至國內品牌中的定位非常強大，在美國等市場，Natuzzi 在歐洲品牌中排名第一。中國也是如此，大多數歐洲市場也是如此。

Building this awareness today will cost hundred of million, if not billion in each of those geography. So that is an inherited asset that we have. In a situation like this, we are increasingly -- of low traffic events -- basically leveraging the brand strength to increase foot traffic in the stores directly operated and those of our partner. Increasingly, we are doing so also by adding more active digital approach in the early part of the consumer journey.

如今，在每個地區建立這種意識將花費數億甚至數十億美元。所以這是我們繼承的資產。在這種情況下，我們越來越多地利用品牌優勢來增加直營商店和合作夥伴商店的客流量。我們越來越多地透過在消費者旅程的早期階段添加更積極的數位方法來做到這一點。

Another way where -- in which we are leveraging the strength of our brand is trade and contract. These are organic way of growing our business because we don't need to open new stores. We established some years -- one years ago, a new division and the quality of discussion we are engaging on, especially for contract are very interesting.

我們利用品牌優勢的另一種方式是貿易和合約。這些是我們業務成長的有機方式，因為我們不需要開設新店。我們成立了幾年——一年前，一個新的部門和我們正在進行的討論的質量，特別是合約方面的討論非常有趣。

And they are interesting on a global scale from Middle East to Europe, to US confirming the strength of our brand, but also our ability to come out with really appealing design, not only for furniture, but for living space. I hope I will be able to report a more specific wins. We are engaging some very exciting discussion in Middle East, but it's premature to share more on those.

從中東到歐洲，再到美國，它們在全球範圍內都很有趣，證實了我們品牌的實力，也證實了我們推出真正吸引人的設計的能力，不僅適用於家具，而且適用於生活空間。我希望我能夠報告更具體的勝利。我們正在中東進行一些非常令人興奮的討論，但現在分享更多內容還為時過早。

The third pillar, where we're focusing on and not by accident, Diego Babbo is joining this call regularly is retail. As I mentioned, retail in term of directly operated store has been growing nearly 4% in the quarter. When we look at retail, the way consumers will look at it, which means Natuzzi freestanding stores, regardless their operated directly by the group or operated by franchising, the weight of that business on the total business has been growing some 25 percentage points since 2019.

我們關注的第三個支柱是零售業，迭戈·巴博（Diego Babbo）定期加入這場電話會議並非偶然。正如我所提到的，本季直營店零售成長了近 4%。當我們看待零售業時，消費者會如何看待它，這意味著Natuzzi獨立店，無論是集團直接經營還是特許經營經營，該業務佔總業務的比重自2019年以來增長了約25個百分點。

2019 that percentage of business was 40%. We are now at 66.4%. So a very strong steady acceleration to become really a consumer-centric and retail-focused company.

2019 年該業務比例為 40%。我們現在是 66.4%。因此，我們正穩步加速成為一家真正以消費者為中心、以零售為中心的公司。

We have been managing retail somehow before knowing fully how to do it. And I believe the work that Global Retail division has been doing recently to catch up has been very noticeable in terms of tools, training approach, merchandising approach.

在完全了解如何做之前，我們一直以某種方式管理零售業。我相信全球零售部門最近在工具、培訓方法、銷售方法方面所做的工作非常引人注目。

And the area of retail is an area where we continue investing. I'm pleased to report that the new retail format, which is an evolution in the term of sustainability that Natuzzi Italia presented in the Milan Design Week last April, has been really welcomed by a stronger acceptance by our dealer globally from China, to emerging market, to US.

零售領域是我們持續投資的領域。我很高興地向大家報告，Natuzzi Italia 去年 4 月在米蘭設計週上展示的新零售業態是可持續發展方面的一次演變，受到了我們全球經銷商從中國到新興市場的更強烈接受。到美國。

And this is the base now to create a more immersive brand experience in each of the more than 200 store we have for Natuzzi Italia. And this concept will be part of the future retail development that we will push in our stores.

現在，我們以此為基礎，在 Natuzzi Italia 的 200 多家商店中打造更身臨其境的品牌體驗。這個概念將成為我們將在商店中推動的未來零售發展的一部分。

Part of this concept is a design studio, which has been a place specifically created to welcome clients and especially designer and architect to continue the journey, the Natuzzi Italia is now really matured which is to say we want to create harmony not only in a specific space, selling a specific product, but in the total home selling project, which means designing living space being the living room, being the bedroom, being the rest of the house.

這個概念的一部分是一個設計工作室，它是一個專門為歡迎客戶，特別是設計師和建築師繼續旅程而創建的地方，Natuzzi Italia 現在已經非常成熟，這就是說，我們不僅希望在特定的領域創造和諧空間，銷售特定產品，但在整個房屋銷售項目中，這意味著設計居住空間，包括客廳、臥室、房子的其他部分。

Wholesale remains still a very important dynamic component of our revenue, especially in geography like US. And is a fourth pillar of our work. We really wanted to step up in term of quality of the relationship we have with our wholesale partner and quality to the relationship we have with our customers through them.

批發仍然是我們收入的一個非常重要的動態組成部分，特別是在美國這樣的地區。這是我們工作的第四個支柱。我們確實希望提高與批發合作夥伴的關係質量，以及透過他們與客戶建立的關係品質。

As part of that, we launched what we call reimagined gallery format. As you know, Natuzzi has been historically operating with gallery which is -- which are shop-in-shop retail environment. But according to the customer experience in those environments where often -- was often left to freedom of interpretation by our retail partner.

作為其中的一部分，我們推出了所謂的重新構想的畫廊格式。如您所知，Natuzzi 歷史上一直與畫廊合作，這是店中店的零售環境。但根據這些環境中的客戶體驗，我們的零售合作夥伴往往可以自由解釋。

In the intent of becoming more a consumer and brand company, we also standardize that kind of environment to what, as I mentioned, we call reimagined gallery concept, which is a shop-in-shop environment, conveying a more comprehensive experience of our brand.

為了成為一家消費者和品牌公司，我們也將這種環境標準化為，正如我所提到的，我們稱之為重新想像的畫廊概念，這是一個店中店的環境，傳達了我們品牌的更全面的體驗。

Also, this innovation has been and is very welcomed by our partner, not only in US, where we have 29 deal of this type, some with important accounts that were not distributing anymore Natuzzi, they decide to reinvest. And the same is happening in other geography, including Germany, we're an important partner that decided to engage in this type of distribution.

此外，這項創新一直受到我們的合作夥伴的歡迎，不僅在美國，我們有 29 筆此類交易，其中一些重要帳戶不再分發 Natuzzi，他們決定進行再投資。同樣的情況也發生在其他地區，包括德國，我們是決定從事此類分銷的重要合作夥伴。

This is particularly true for Natuzzi Editions and especially also for Natuzzi Italia, Natuzzi Italia the privileged channel is really freestanding store.

對於 Natuzzi Editions 和 Natuzzi Italia 來說尤其如此，Natuzzi Italia 的特權管道實際上是獨立商店。

The fifth element we are working particularly on and Pasquale we're very lucky to have him still very involved in design is our collection. Especially for Natuzzi Italia, Milano Design Week, we just ended in April has been a very important moment to show to the global partners the maturity of the Natuzzi Italia project, which is a maturity achieve somehow by leveraging even more our DNA, which is a DNA which talk about harmony, is a DNA which talks about comfort and the new collection, which has been presented based on those element are receiving very strong positive feedback and orders.

我們特別關注的第五個元素是我們的系列，我們很幸運地讓帕斯誇萊仍然積極參與設計。特別是對於Natuzzi Italia 來說，米蘭設計週，我們四月剛結束，是向全球合作夥伴展示Natuzzi Italia 計畫成熟度的一個非常重要的時刻，這是透過更多地利用我們的DNA 來實現的成熟度，這是一個談論和諧的DNA，就是談論舒適的DNA，基於這些元素推出的新系列收到了非常強烈的正面回饋和訂單。

As you know, our time to market is quite, as for the industry, long because once the collection are purchased by our partner, it takes few months to be delivered and basically is when they start being presented to the final consumer.

如您所知，就行業而言，我們的上市時間相當長，因為一旦我們的合作夥伴購買了該系列產品，就需要幾個月的時間才能交付，並且基本上是在它們開始呈現給最終消費者的時候。

This will happen in a few months, and we are very confident the freshness of this new collection for Natuzzi Italia will help providing a better experience of our brand and which is very important, support sales in the stores where they will be presented.

這將在幾個月內實現，我們非常有信心 Natuzzi Italia 這個新系列的新鮮感將有助於為我們的品牌提供更好的體驗，這一點非常重要，可以支持將要展示的商店的銷售。

The sixth pillar is about geography. Natuzzi being a global brand operate in more than 100 markets. And this is definitely an advantage of being a global brand. But in the discussion with the Board, it has been clearly highlighted and agreed on that a global strong position can only be achieved with stronger local position.

第六支柱是關於地理的。Natuzzi 是一個全球品牌，業務遍及 100 多個市場。這絕對是作為全球品牌的優勢。但在與董事會的討論中，我們明確強調並一致認為，只有更強的本地地位才能實現全球強勢地位。

And we identified three macro opportunity. One is US, as I mentioned, US is central to our future strategy as has been central to the historical success of the company, and to US goes all our effort in terms of supporting the retail and also supporting the organization, where we are still working on to finalize the final structure.

我們確定了三個宏觀機會。一是美國，正如我所提到的，美國是我們未來戰略的核心，也是公司歷史成功的核心，我們在支持零售和支持組織方面竭盡全力，我們仍然在這方面致力於最終確定最終結構。

China is the second continental geography where our brand is clearly a strong potential. We now operate some 340 stores between the two brands. As you know by now, we don't consolidate line by line in China. So you don't see that sales in terms of sell-out, but you see that sales in terms of sell-in. We are working very intensively to make sure that China is integrated in the journey we have been doing, especially for Natuzzi Italia.

中國是我們品牌明顯具有強大潛力的第二大洲。我們現在經營這兩個品牌約 340 家商店。如您所知，我們在中國並沒有逐條整合。因此，您看到的不是售出量，而是售入量。我們正在加緊工作，以確保中國融入我們一直在做的旅程中，特別是 Natuzzi Italia。

And this integration is continuing as a sum of more acquisitive interaction with the management. The key theme of China will be in July in Italy, is continuing by means of integrating IT systems. So China is now in progress of being integrating our IT system and also in the way of operating stores.

這種整合仍在持續，是與管理階層進行更多收購互動的總和。中國的主題將在7月在義大利繼續透過整合IT系統的方式進行。所以中國現在正在整合我們的IT系統，也正在進行門市的運作方式。

End of July, there will be a new opening of our Hangzhou store. Hangzhou is one of the largest city in China, 40 minutes by train from Shanghai and that store has been designed by us in terms of layout, merchandising, and customer experience, really to become a first flagship that can talk the language of Natuzzi Italia.

7月底，我們的杭州店將新開幕。杭州是中國最大的城市之一，距離上海 40 分鐘火車車程，該店在佈局、商品陳列和客戶體驗方面均由我們設計，真正成為第一家能使用 Natuzzi Italia 語言的旗艦店。

We believe that having the JV, which has by governance, the authority to the legitimacy to complete the design having gained the legitimacy to do it ourselves is an important sign of the journey we are doing with them.

我們相信，擁有合資企業，透過治理，擁有完成設計的合法權力，並獲得我們自己完成設計的合法性，這是我們與他們合作的旅程的重要標誌。

And in September, there will be a similar store opening in Shanghai. So we really start reviewing the network of the stores directly operated by the JV to revise top of standard of what should be Natuzzi Italia experience in China.

9月份，上海也將開設一家類似的商店。因此，我們真正開始檢視合資企業直接經營的商店網絡，以修改 Natuzzi Italia 在中國的體驗標準。

Europe, beyond the UK and Italy and Spain, which are really key geography, we are working to re-enter some of the countries where Natuzzi had a historical -- even significant footprint, but for reason of the focusing has been somehow neglected. One example is Germany, we have recently signed an agreement with the KH Group to reopen 22 galleries in the next month.

歐洲，除了英國、義大利和西班牙這些真正關鍵的地區之外，我們正在努力重新進入納圖齊曾經留下過歷史足跡甚至是重要足跡的一些國家，但由於重點原因而被忽視了。一個例子是德國，我們最近與 KH 集團簽署了一項協議，將在下個月重新開設 22 家畫廊。

The seventh pillar we are working on is the -- the restructuring and modernization of our factory and the restructuring of our SG&A. We've been extensively commenting during the last press call with Mario. Therefore, we are doing to reducing our account while we're investing in area like consumer experience, marketing, and retail. This process continue.

我們正在努力的第七個支柱是——工廠的重組和現代化以及銷售、管理和管理（SG&A）的重組。在上次與馬裡奧的新聞發布會上，我們進行了廣泛的評論。因此，我們正在減少帳戶，同時投資消費者體驗、行銷和零售等領域。這個過程繼續進行。

Of course, the speed of this process is determined by two main elements. One is the regulatory framework that, as you know, in most European countries, is very strict and especially in Italy when it comes to workforce reduction and the second is our ability to invest in the restructuring because, of course, most of those restructuring outside US, they are quite demanding in term of one-off restructuring, even though then they have a very promising payback midterm.

當然，這個過程的速度由兩個主要因素決定。一是如您所知，大多數歐洲國家的監管框架非常嚴格，特別是在義大利，在減少勞動力方面；二是我們投資重組的能力，因為當然，大多數重組都是在外部進行的。他們對一次性重組的要求相當高，儘管他們的中期回報非常有希望。

This leads to the last point of our agenda, which is dismissing non-strategic resource because in a time where given the level of sales, we don't have the ability to invest as much as we want, we continue exploring -- actively exploring how to sell some of the assets that are not clearly any longer strategic.

這就引出了我們議程的最後一點，即排除非戰略資源，因為在給定銷售水平的時代，我們沒有能力進行我們想要的投資，我們繼續探索——積極探索如何出售一些不再明顯具有戰略意義的資產。

This includes High Point where there's been several discussions. The high interest rate clearly don't favor at the moment this sales for the right values and we don't want to undersell the building. This also includes the tannery we have in Italy, which is part of our value chain, but for which we could think of some alternative setting and includes some minor asset such as tannery we have close to Romania.

這包括已經進行過多次討論的 High Point。目前，高利率顯然不利於以正確的價值出售該建築，我們不想以低價出售該建築。這也包括我們在義大利的製革廠，它是我們價值鏈的一部分，但我們可以考慮一些替代設置，並包括一些次要資產，例如我們靠近羅馬尼亞的製革廠。

So this is what gets our attention. Clearly, in a situation like this, there's always the risk of compromising more the midterm for the short term. This is not the case. We are definitely focusing on the short term in terms of cash management, but we want to keep our eyes on what will create value more in the midterm considering the strength of our company, the strength of our brand, which is globally recognized and the strengths of our nearly 700 stores globally.

這就是引起我們注意的地方。顯然，在這種情況下，總是存在著為短期而犧牲更多中期目標的風險。事實並非如此。在現金管理方面，我們肯定會專注於短期，但考慮到我們公司的實力、全球認可的品牌實力以及我們的優勢，我們希望專注於中期能創造更多價值的因素。

Let me stop here for your question. Of course, then with Carlo, we can also double click on working capital and cash management and other elements. But let me stop here, for initial reaction to this general overview of our strategic agenda.

讓我在這裡停下來回答你的問題。當然，有了Carlo，我們也可以雙擊營運資金和現金管理等要素。但讓我在這裡停下來，談談對我們戰略議程總體概述的初步反應。

(Operator Instructions) David Kanen, KWM LLC.

（操作員說明）David Kanen，KWM LLC。

Hi, guys. Are you able to hear me?

嗨，大家好。你聽得到我說話嗎？

Yeah, we do.

是的，我們願意。

Okay. Well, First, I'd like to, in way congratulate you on some of the green shoots that I'm seeing. I think there are a lot of encouraging signs in the financial results that you reported. And I'd like to just drill down a little deeper to gain a greater understanding.

好的。嗯，首先，我想以某種方式祝賀你們，我看到了一些新的萌芽。我認為您報告的財務表現中有很多令人鼓舞的跡象。我想更深入地研究以獲得更好的理解。

I'm encouraged by the improvement in the gross margin as well as the management of operating expenses. It sounds like you have a number of growth initiatives underway expanding your network of DOS stores in North America. But what seems new is you called out this agreement with galleries in both North America and in Europe.

我對毛利率的改善以及營運費用的管理感到鼓舞。聽起來您正在實施多項成長計劃，以擴大您在北美的 DOS 商店網路。但看起來新鮮的是你與北美和歐洲的畫廊達成了這項協議。

So if you could speak to the incrementality of these galleries in Europe and North America. And then also, you spent a little time talking about the JV in China. Is that an area despite the, let's call it, furniture depression that we're in right now, is that an area where also you expect to see some growth before the, let's call it, the reduction in interest rates and normalization in housing. So there's a lot I gave you there. I'll let you respond.

那麼，您是否可以談談歐洲和北美這些畫廊的增量。然後，您也花了一點時間談論中國的合資企業。儘管我們現在正處於家具蕭條的狀態，但在利率下降和住房正常化之前，您預計會看到一些增長。所以我給了你很多東西。我會讓你回應。

Thank you, Dave, and (inaudible) I will take one question at the time to make sure we're really capturing full questions. So I will start answering to Dave before opening to next question. So first of all, thank you, Dave, for the encouraging word on the direction of the company and the team is doing hard work to achieve clearly in a context still headwinds.

謝謝戴夫，（聽不清楚）我當時會回答一個問題，以確保我們真正捕捉了完整的問題。因此，在開始下一個問題之前，我將開始回答戴夫。首先，感謝戴夫對公司方向的鼓勵，團隊正在努力工作，以在仍然不利的情況下實現明確的目標。

To your question around the gallery in China. So we definitely are focusing on the quality of interaction with our final customers. These in retail reached the maximum, let's say, level of quality and brand immersion because we really can create and I'm working specifically for Natuzzi Italia an immersive experience into our brand, showing the total living, which includes polyurethane furniture, dining, bedroom, accessory lighting.

關於你關於中國畫廊的問題。因此，我們絕對關注與最終客戶互動的品質。零售業的這些達到了最高水平，比如說品質和品牌沉浸感，因為我們確實可以創造（我正在專門為 Natuzzi Italia 工作）我們品牌的沉浸式體驗，展示整體生活，包括聚氨酯家具、餐廳、臥室，輔助照明。

And we also as I mentioned before, especially for Natuzzi Italia, create a physical space where clients and designers are invited and welcome to spend time in defining a more, let's say, high-quality project. This is the long-term direction, especially for Natuzzi Italia.

正如我之前提到的，我們特別為 Natuzzi Italia 創建了一個實體空間，邀請並歡迎客戶和設計師花時間定義更高品質的專案。這是長期方向，尤其是對於 Natuzzi Italia 而言。

At the same time, this concept applies to a portion of the market, which in certain geographies is still an opportunity for us, in particular, I'm referring to US, where there are large retailers maybe in geography where a directly operated store would not be guaranteeing an adequate return. So we don't want to neglect those opportunity.

同時，這個概念適用於一部分市場，這在某些地區對我們來說仍然是一個機會，特別是我指的是美國，那裡有大型零售商，也許在直營店會存在的地區。的回報。所以我們不想忽視這些機會。

At the same time, we want to elevate the quality of those opportunity, both for the benefit of the partner, so the retail and also for the benefit of establishing a strong relationship with the final customer. The reimagined gallery is really shooting for those two objectives because by providing a more conductive experience in the brand in this multi-brand environment, it guarantees high returns for the retailer because the investment in those reimagined gallery are really been very thoughtful about guaranteeing a good retail return for the partner.

同時，我們希望提高這些機會的質量，這不僅有利於合作夥伴、零售業，也有利於與最終客戶建立牢固的關係。重新設計的畫廊實際上是為了實現這兩個目標，因為透過在多品牌環境中為品牌提供更具傳導性的體驗，它可以保證零售商的高回報，因為對這些重新設計的畫廊的投資確實非常周到，可以保證良好的銷售業績。

So we're not talking about investment in the amount that will go in a directly operated store. But still, those elements that create an atmosphere of the brand, plus a very careful interpretation of the reality and the merchandising can provide an adequate level of experience of the brand for the final customer. And these apply specifically for Natuzzi Editions even though there are some circumstances where also Natuzzi Italia can explore this option.

因此，我們談論的不是直接經營商店的投資金額。但是，那些營造品牌氛圍的元素，加上對現實和推銷的非常仔細的解釋，可以為最終客戶提供足夠的品牌體驗。這些特別適用於 Natuzzi 版本，儘管在某些情況下 Natuzzi Italia 也可以探索此選項。

So this does not contradict at all our long-term view of having a more customer-centric and a more high-quality interaction with consumer. But recognize that there are pockets of growth opportunity in that channel that are very important and also somehow needed to sustain the volume we need to achieve for our growth.

因此，這與我們以客戶為中心、與消費者進行更高品質互動的長期觀點並不矛盾。但要認識到，該管道中存在一些非常重要的成長機會，並且在某種程度上也需要維持我們實現成長所需的數量。

I hope I addressed in a proper manner, the first question, unless please Dave stop me because I will move then to the second question regarding China.

我希望我以適當的方式回答第一個問題，除非請戴夫阻止我，因為我將轉向關於中國的第二個問題。

Well, if you could provide more detail on the gallery business in North America and Europe. In the press release, you specifically called out 29 new gallery agreements in North America and then 92 in the rest of the world. So should we view this as investors as this is incremental that the gallery business should grow year over year with this incremental distribution?

好吧，如果您能提供有關北美和歐洲畫廊業務的更多詳細資訊。在新聞稿中，您特別指出了北美地區的 29 項新畫廊協議，以及世界其他地區的 92 項新畫廊協議。那麼，作為投資者，我們是否應該將此視為增量，畫廊業務應該隨著這種增量分配而逐年增長？

So the answer -- the short answer is yes but let me provide a bit more context because those they're not entirely new accounts. There are situations where those gallery are a way to restart a dialogue with accounts that were (inaudible) this is the case, for instance of Germany. Germany, we are not distributing now we are going to open 22 gallery. That is fully incremental business.

所以答案 - 簡短的答案是肯定的，但讓我提供更多背景信息，因為它們並不是全新的帳戶。在某些情況下，這些畫廊是重新啟動與（聽不清楚）帳戶對話的一種方式，例如德國的情況。德國，我們現在不發行，我們要開22家畫廊。這就是完全增量業務。

In some circumstances, especially in US, part of that additional gallery is a conversion of a space that we have in a department store where the quality of display of the brand is not adequate, but you could interpret that more as organic growth elevating the quality of the distribution in existing account. So in that part of business (technical difficulty) somehow on organic growth, we are qualifying (technical difficulty)

在某些情況下，特別是在美國，額外畫廊的一部分是對百貨公司中的空間進行的改造，其中品牌的展示質量不夠，但您可以將其更多地解釋為有機增長，從而提高了質量現有帳戶中的分配。因此，在有機成長的業務（技術難度）部分，我們有資格（技術難度）

Dave, there's a bit of background noise (technical difficulty) okay much better, thank you.

戴夫，有一點背景噪音（技術難度），好吧，好多了，謝謝。

So within the gallery, you can see a part of, let's call it, organic growth which is achieved by elevating the quality distribution of existing partner convincing them to step up and open a gallery instead of a less qualified environment and there is also new account which has been reach -- which is appealing proposal of gallery that they get convinced to create a space for Natuzzi Italia or Natuzzi Edition that they didn't have before. So that is the way you should, as investors look at this opportunity, which is not, as I mentioned at all contradicting our idea of retail force.

因此，在畫廊內，您可以看到有機成長的一部分，我們稱之為有機成長，這是透過提高現有合作夥伴的品質分佈來實現的，說服他們加強並開設畫廊，而不是資質較差的環境，而且還有新帳戶這已經達到了——這是畫廊的一個有吸引力的提議，他們被說服為 Natuzzi Italia 或 Natuzzi Edition 創建一個他們以前沒有的空間。因此，這就是投資者看待這個機會的方式，正如我所提到的，這與我們散戶力量的想法完全不矛盾。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Now, okay, yes.

現在，好吧，是的。

Okay. And then here's a question for Carlo. We know that at some point, the housing market is going to improve. Here in North America last year, I believe, just over 4 million homes sold. When you look at the long-term average, it's around 5.5 million. So about 28% fewer homes sold and there's a direct correlation between furniture sales and housing transactions. They almost correlate, 1:1.

好的。這是要問卡洛的問題。我們知道，在某個時候，房地產市場將會改善。我相信，去年北美的房屋銷售量剛超過 400 萬套。如果你看長期平均值，你會發現約 550 萬。因此，房屋銷售量減少了約 28%，而且家具銷售和房屋交易之間存在直接相關性。它們幾乎是 1:1 相關的。

So at some point, things are going to normalize, and the Fed is going to cut rates. It seems with some of the incremental distribution, the new stores and a recovery kicking in maybe in the next 12 to 24 months that we should be able to get back over EUR100 million in revenue. So my question for Carlo is, at EUR100 million of revenue, will gross margin exceed 40% with some of the measures that you've taken?

因此，在某個時候，事情將會正常化，Fed將會降息。看來，隨著一些增量分銷、新店的開設以及未來 12 至 24 個月內經濟復甦的開始，我們應該能夠收回超過 1 億歐元的收入。所以我向 Carlo 提出的問題是，在收入為 1 億歐元的情況下，透過您採取的一些措施，毛利率會超過 40% 嗎？

Let's say -- David, thank you very much for your question, first of all. And let's say that as our progression shows in the previous quarter, we are already heading in that direction, so also integrating the retail margin in which we are going to go versus the 40% that you did mention.

讓我們說——大衛，首先非常感謝你提出的問題。假設正如我們上一季的進展所示，我們已經朝著這個方向前進，因此也將我們將要達到的零售利潤率與您提到的 40% 進行整合。

So this is a progression that we did start already by improving our gross margin working on a price discipline mark and adding that into a return progression to our numbers, we will go -- we should go towards that 40% that you did mention.

因此，這是我們已經開始的一個進步，透過提高我們在價格紀律標記上的毛利率，並將其添加到我們的數字的回報進步中，我們將繼續——我們應該朝著你提到的40 % 邁進。

Antonio, if you could answer the question, and then I'm going to go back into queue regarding the joint venture in China. It seems as though you now have greater autonomy and influence over the JV. Could you talk a little bit about that and the effect that you expect to see over the next 12 months in China if these changes will contribute growth year over year?

安東尼奧，如果你能回答這個問題，那麼我將回到有關中國合資企業的隊列中。看來您現在對合資企業擁有更大的自主權和影響力。您能否談談這一點，以及您預計未來 12 個月中國將看到的影響（如果這些變化將促進逐年增長）？

Okay. Let's move to China. First of all, just not to be misunderstood. The governance -- the rules, the China JV hasn't changed in the sense that Natuzzi owning 49% in our, let's say, correspondent part KUKA owning 51% still create a situation where the governance is clearly leading to a key operational decision taken by the majority shareholder.

好的。讓我們搬到中國。首先，不要被誤解。治理－規則，中國合資企業並沒有改變，納圖齊在我們的對應部分庫卡中擁有49% 的股份，比如說，庫卡擁有51% 的股份，仍然創造了一種治理明顯導致做出關鍵營運決策的情況由大股東。

What we have been achieving is creating legitimacy that supported us to be more active in driving key choices about store merchandising, retail merchandising. What we call commercial excellence, which is how you should approach sales with dealers where we're basically in a very open and partnership by way we shared with the JV, which is relatively newer to brand management, what has been the achievement of Natuzzi in other geography.

我們所取得的成就是創造了合法性，並支持我們更積極地推動商店行銷、零售行銷的關鍵選擇。我們所說的商業卓越，就是你應該如何與經銷商進行銷售，我們基本上是透過與合資企業共享的非常開放的合作夥伴關係，這對於品牌管理來說是相對較新的，Natuzzi 在其他地理。

By sharing those best practice and by heavily investing personally, I'm going to mean personally, not me, but, I mean also me, but the full team in showing what can be achieved we create a space -- a much larger pace of influence on the JV, which is a positive influence. So it's not a power influence, but it's a competence-driven influence.

透過分享這些最佳實踐並進行大量個人投資，我指的是個人，不是我，但是，我也指的是我，而是整個團隊在展示我們可以實現的目標時，我們創造了一個空間——一個更大的步伐對合資公司的影響，這是一個正面的影響。所以這不是權力影響，而是能力驅動的影響。

Some people, including General Manager of JV will be in July -- first week of July in Italy and the discussion on how to make sure this influence can continue would be central to that. But this is a description of the process. So if I go back to 2021, for instance, we didn't have any visibility of the performance of the JV at the granular level.

包括合資公司總經理在內的一些人將在七月——七月的第一周在義大利，討論如何確保這種影響能夠持續下去將是其中的核心。但這是對過程的描述。因此，如果我回到 2021 年，我們就無法在粒度層面上了解合資企業的績效。

We now do see the performance of the JV at the store level for the stores which are directly operated by JV, Diego Babbo, our Global Retail division manager, is being involved in discussion with the team of the JV on how to improve directly-operated stores performances.

現在我們確實看到了合資公司在門市層面的表現，對於合資公司直營的商店，我們的全球零售部門經理迭戈·巴博（Diego Babbo）正在與合資公司的團隊討論如何改進直營商店商店表演。

We had some 18 dealers from China visiting Milan Design Week and then continuing to our quarter in South of Italy. The year before, we didn't have any dealer come into our Milan Design Week -- and during the Milan Design Week, there were some 20 people, which are the key people in the JV in terms of dealing with Natuzzi Italia joining that same tour to Milano Design Week and then Santeramo. Again, the previous year, we didn't have any.

我們有大約 18 位來自中國的經銷商參觀了米蘭設計週，然後繼續前往我們位於義大利南部的季度。前一年，我們沒有任何經銷商參加我們的米蘭設計週，而在米蘭設計週期間，大約有 20 個人，他們是合資企業中處理 Natuzzi Italia 加入的關鍵人物。拉莫。再說一次，前一年我們沒有。

And those occasions are really important to create a common way of working that for a company like us that aspire to manage globally a brand is very important because we are not grocery retailer. So we need really to invest to educate our partner, which is not only the case of China or now to interpret what internally has been codified as the brand or region, which doesn't open, let's say, hurt any politically correctness let's say, sense because religion for us is neutral.

這些場合對於創造一種共同的工作方式非常重要，對於像我們這樣渴望在全球範圍內進行管理的公司來說，品牌非常重要，因為我們不是雜貨零售商。因此，我們確實需要投資來教育我們的合作夥伴，這不僅是中國的情況，也不僅僅是現在的情況，要解釋內部被編纂為品牌或地區的內容，這不會開放，比如說，損害任何政治正確性，比如說，有道理，因為宗教對我們來說是中立的。

It doesn't say what religion, but it means that the credo, the brand cannot be compromised. So a lot of the effort we're doing is spending time with the JV is really to make sure that, that credo is systematically absorbed and deployed at China level.

它沒有說是什麼宗教，但它意味著信條、品牌不能妥協。因此，我們在合資企業中投入的大量時間實際上是為了確保這項信條在中國層級得到系統性地吸收和部署。

So would that translate in higher sales and better management of the brands? The answer is we need to believe so, absolutely. Clearly, a new implicitly -- no, explicitly actually, put that in the context of your question, China remains a very troubled geography.

那麼這會帶來更高的銷售額和更好的品牌管理嗎？答案是我們絕對需要相信這一點。顯然，一個新的隱含的——不，實際上是明確的，在你的問題的背景下，中國仍然是一個非常麻煩的地區。

So you mentioned the sales of new houses in US, I remind that Evergrande, which was by far the largest retail real estate operator in China went belly up and the founder, which was one of the most successful and rich person in China has been imprisoned for bankruptcy.

所以你提到了在美國的新房銷售，我想起恆大，中國迄今為止最大的零售房地產運營商破產了，其創始人，中國最成功和最富有的人之一被監禁為了破產。

So the market in China, especially for retail real estate remain significantly down versus previous phases of the growth of the country. But again, we know that this cycle, they're not irreversible. We've been in that cycle for quite a long time, so I'm looking also China with optimistic lenses in terms of growth opportunity that we have.

因此，中國市場，尤其是零售房地產市場，與該國先前的成長階段相比仍顯著下滑。但同樣，我們知道這個循環並不是不可逆轉的。我們已經處於這個週期相當長一段時間了，所以我也以樂觀的眼光看待中國的成長機會。

Okay. If that is a sufficient answer, Dave, I would rather ask you if you have another question or maybe Kevin can ask the remaining investors and analysts if they have other questions.

好的。如果這是一個足夠的答案，戴夫，我寧願問你是否還有其他問題，或者凱文可以問剩下的投資者和分析師是否還有其他問題。

Corey Pinkston, Waterways Capital Advisors.

科里·平克斯頓 (Corey Pinkston)，Waterways 資本顧問公司。

Great. Good afternoon. Can you hear me?

偉大的。午安.你聽得到我嗎？

Yeah. We can, Corey.

是的。我們可以，科里。

Great. Well, I think to echo what David said, and obviously, I've been a supporter and continue to be for a while here. Just quickly the leadership of you and the support and leadership of Pasquale and really the execution of the team is incredibly impressive with the macro headwinds that everybody in your industry faces.

偉大的。嗯，我想回應大衛所說的，顯然，我一直是支持者，並且會繼續在這裡待一段時間。很快，您的領導、帕斯誇萊的支持和領導，以及團隊的執行力，在行業中每個人都面臨的宏觀逆風中令人印象深刻。

But the operating leverage that you're creating and your transparency, it's one thing to execute on these, but when you start to talk about the gross margins getting to 40% and then giving us clarity around the breakeven targets, we all think long term as to what David said, which is the power in this brand is it's pretty strong.

但你正在創造的營運槓桿和你的透明度，執行這些是一回事，但是當你開始談論毛利率達到 40%，然後讓我們明確盈虧平衡目標時，我們都從長遠考慮至於David所說的，就是這個品牌的力量非常強大。

One comment that, as you said, you walk through the retail initiatives that against all of the transformation and turnaround of the operating side and getting that to where you want to have it. Clearly, the environment right now puts some constraints on the, as you said, the full retail expansion.

有評論稱，正如您所說，您將了解零售計劃，這些計劃反對營運方面的所有轉型和周轉，並將其實現您想要的目標。顯然，正如您所說，目前的環境對零售業的全面擴張施加了一些限制。

But when I listen to this call and I read your results and you talk about what you're doing on the retail the design, the gallery, the trade business that you're developing, what I'll call the commercial business with contractors.

但是當我聽這個電話並讀到你的結果時，你談論了你在零售、設計、畫廊、你正在開發的貿易業務方面所做的事情，我稱之為與承包商的商業業務。

While you're not able to potentially expand the footprint or some of the other things, it -- as an investor, it doesn't really feel that you're having to be disciplined or more disciplined around the CapEx, et cetera, as to what you might do but it really doesn't feel like you're missing on where you want to invest for the turn, as David mentioned, whether it's 12 months or 18 months as we get to a more normalized environment.

雖然你無法潛在地擴大足跡或其他一些事情，但作為投資者，它並不真的覺得你必須在資本支出等方面遵守紀律或更遵守紀律，因為正如David 提到的，無論是12 個月還是18 個月，當我們進入一個更正常化的環境時，你確實不會覺得自己錯過了轉彎時想要投資的地方。

So can you just expand on that a little bit because while you're not able to maybe put the CapEx you might in a normal environment, it doesn't seem like you're missing a lot for the turn.

那麼你能不能稍微擴展一下這一點，因為雖然你無法將資本支出投入到正常環境中，但看起來你並沒有在這個回合中錯過太多。

Thank you, Corey, again. And it's really encouraging to get your support as investors because I mean, we have -- and I have two priorities. One is the customer, the second one is the shareholders. So for me, it's very important that you are very direct to us, and I appreciate your support to us.

再次謝謝你，科里。得到你們作為投資者的支持真的很令人鼓舞，因為我的意思是，我們有——而且我有兩個優先事項。一是客戶，二是股東。因此，對我來說，您對我們的直接關注非常重要，我感謝您對我們的支持。

If I interpret quite your question, but let me restate basically, you're asking us why we're not putting more CapEx in retail to support our growth. Is that what you're asking?

如果我完全理解您的問題，但讓我基本上重申一下，您是在問我們為什麼不在零售業投入更多資本支出來支持我們的成長。這就是你問的嗎？

No. Actually, I'm not asking that. I actually applaud you to the fact that you're taking advantage of this situation to not only rationalize your operating footprint and get that to where we want to have it because the power of that operating leverage drives to the bottom line when we get the turn.

不。其實我不是在問這個。我實際上為你鼓掌，因為你利用這種情況，不僅合理化了你的營運足跡，並將其達到我們想要的目標，因為當我們輪到我們時，營運槓桿的力量會推動底線。

I guess I'm not asking why not more CapEx. It seems like you're able, through your choices you're having to make on the retail side and the sales channels that you're getting -- you're able to continue to support the areas where you're going to drive the greatest growth now in --

我想我不是問為什麼不增加資本支出。看起來你有能力，透過你必須在零售方面做出的選擇以及你所獲得的銷售管道——你能夠繼續支持你將要推動的領域現在最大的成長是--

Okay. I got you. I got you. I got you. Yeah. So basically, let's say, two discontinued avenues to create a better margin and better leverage and then there is, let's say, business as usual. So business as usual, which is our focus is organic growth. When you have retail and stores, you bring on more the fixed cost, labor, rent, inventory. So the more you sell, the better it is. And this is a handless job.

好的。我接到你了。我接到你了。我接到你了。是的。因此，基本上，可以說，有兩種中斷的途徑可以創造更好的利潤和更好的槓桿率，然後就可以說，一切照常進行。所以一切照舊，我們的重點是有機成長。當你擁有零售店和商店時，你會帶來更多的固定成本、勞動力、租金和庫存。所以賣得越多越好。這是一項無需用手的工作。

We now have a US store in the range of EUR5 million, EUR6 million, which if you go back to 2019, the top performer were more in the range of EUR2 million. So something has been achieved and kudos goes to the management, which support us, but a lot still can be achieved to make this figure more systematic.

我們現在在美國有一家商店，營業額在 500 萬歐元、600 萬歐元之間，如果你回到 2019 年，表現最好的商店在 200 萬歐元左右。我們已經取得了一些成就，值得讚揚的是支持我們的管理層，但要讓這個數字更加系統化，還有很多工作要做。

So this is the first avenue to increase margin and return on capital also because we were talking about the margin, and I want to remind that in a well-managed store, we get an integrated margin above 70%, where integrated margin means the retail margin plus the manufacturing margin, which, of course, then show us in our P&L.

因此，這是提高利潤率和資本回報率的第一個途徑，因為我們正在談論利潤率，我想提醒一下，在管理良好的商店中，我們的綜合利潤率高於70%，其中綜合利潤率意味著零售利潤加上製造利潤，當然，這會在我們的損益表中顯示出來。

And let's say, organic avenue to create margin. Then there are discontinued way of creating margin. One is reducing our SG&A structure, where what we can do in terms of reducing discretional spending is being done. We continue doing it, of course, a great focus on discretional of spending, but the company is clearly working on a very tight management of expenses.

比方說，創造利潤的有機途徑。然後是已經停止的創造利潤的方式。一是減少我們的銷售、管理和行政費用結構，我們正在減少可自由支配支出。當然，我們繼續這樣做，非常注重可自由支配的支出，但公司顯然正在致力於非常嚴格的支出管理。

The other way is cutting, let's say, head counts. And this is something which very much depend on our long-term plan, which has been agreed on with the different stakeholders, but also our capacity to sustain the CapEx to execute this restructuring. And is the first avenue for creating value in a structural way.

另一種方法是削減人員數量。這在很大程度上取決於我們與不同利害關係人達成一致的長期計劃，也取決於我們維持資本支出以執行此重組的能力。這是以結構性方式創造價值的第一個途徑。

The second way is to open more stores. Opening a store is not something you should do light-heartedly because we learned the way that if you open a store in the wrong location is a problem that cannot be solved, so we are very careful about to find a right location. And once we have the right location, identify the right team.

第二種方法是開設更多商店。開店並不是一件可以輕鬆做的事情，因為我們了解到，如果你開在錯誤的地點，那是一個無法解決的問題，所以我們非常小心地尋找合適的地點。一旦我們找到了合適的地點，就可以確定合適的團隊。

But of course, that is an avenue which if we identify the right location, the right team, and we're operating well can be promising. The speed to which we can operate new store is, again, a function of our ability to invest. So it's true that for the time being, we have not been deviating from our, let's say, strategic agenda, which include those actions that I just finished summarizing.

當然，如果我們找到了正確的地點、正確的團隊，而我們運作得很好，那麼這條途徑是有希望的。我們經營新店的速度再次取決於我們的投資能力。因此，確實，目前我們並沒有偏離我們的策略議程，其中包括我剛剛總結完的那些行動。

But of course, if we had more capital, we could accelerate on those two area mention, which is retail and restructuring. In a situation like this, we need to safeguard the cash. And of course, this also call for some trade-off in terms of reinvesting in this area versus safe-guarding the cash position.

但當然，如果我們有更多的資本，我們可以加速這兩個領域的發展，即零售和重組。在這種情況下，我們需要保護好現金。當然，這也需要在這一領域的再投資與保護現金部位之間進行一些權衡。

Corey, let me know if I addressed your question.

科里，如果我回答了你的問題，請告訴我。

No, you did. And from our -- just the balance and clearly, the team working on the trade-offs between cash management and the investments, it's just the observation is in a difficult environment, you're continuing to be able to push those areas where you see the ability to get traction in retail across the board without having to compromise or with being able to keep some of that CapEx or restructuring.

不，你做到了。從我們的角度來看，很明顯，團隊致力於現金管理和投資之間的權衡，這只是在困難的環境中觀察到的，你將繼續能夠推動你所看到的那些領域能夠在零售業全面獲得牽引力，而無需做出妥協，或能夠保留部分資本支出或重組。

And I'm not going to ask specifically what you anticipate, but I would assume that you are providing for the additional restructuring here and there that you may continue to need to take those charges. So we won't ask specific numbers.

我不會具體詢問您的預期，但我假設您正在各處提供額外的重組，因此您可能繼續需要承擔這些費用。所以我們不會問具體數字。

One last question, and I apologize if I had stepped away, but you do refer to the raw material cost and the hyperinflation that we've seen there. And I'm not sure if you covered it earlier in the call, but -- are you seeing -- is that alleviating or softening somewhat? How do you see the trends on that side?

最後一個問題，如果我離開了，我很抱歉，但你確實提到了我們在那裡看到的原材料成本和惡性通貨膨脹。我不確定你是否在電話會議的早些時候提到過這一點，但是——你看到了嗎——這是否有所緩解或軟化？您如何看待這方面的趨勢？

So material-wise, most of -- I mean we are a complex production company, our product gets a lot of different inputs. But when we look at the, let's say, bulk of input, which are fabric, leather, [motion], metallic part. Most of those, they are, let's say, not experimenting anymore and inflation similar to what we experimented in the last year. So currently, we just review the progression of the year, and most of material are in line with our internal expectation.

因此，就材料而言，我的意思是，我們是一家複雜的生產公司，我們的產品獲得了許多不同的投入。但是，當我們查看大量輸入時，例如織物、皮革、[運動]、金屬部分。比如說，其中大多數已經不再進行實驗，通膨率與我們去年的實驗類似。所以目前我們只是回顧了這一年的進展，大部分材料都符合我們內部的預期。

So for gross margin, no surprise. For below gross margin, transport, as you know, there is one of the consequence of the political tension is the Suez channel not being any longer available to cut the route towards the West. And this is creating some transport increase for those, let's say, routing, which we start witnessing.

因此，就毛利率而言，這並不奇怪。如您所知，對於低於毛利率的運輸，政治緊張局勢的後果之一是蘇伊士運河不再可用於切斷通往西方的路線。這正在為那些我們開始見證的路由等運輸帶來一些增加。

We were making space in our budget for that increase. We were also protected for a significant part of the year by pre-negotiated tariff, but that is somehow creating some tension on the transport level also because that then when the global transportation get imbalanced, there's always a cascade effect because companies start moving container from one part to the other, which have not been fully filled.

我們在預算中為這一增長騰出了空間。我們在今年的很大一部分時間裡也受到了預先協商的關稅的保護，但這在某種程度上在運輸層面造成了一些緊張，因為當全球運輸變得不平衡時，總是會產生連鎖效應，因為公司開始將貨櫃從一部分到另一部分，尚未完全填滿。

There is also some tactical gaming played by the company, the shipping company. So they might be on shipping some tension. But for raw material, likely we are definitely witnessing a more normalized environment, which is another way, midterm for potential expanding the margin.

還有航運公司這家公司玩的一些戰術遊戲。所以他們可能在運輸方面有些緊張。但對於原料而言，我們肯定會見證一個更正常化的環境，這是中期可能擴大利潤的另一種方式。

We also been very systematic in assessing our marginality. The company operates in other markets, operator the two brands, does result in another pricing list, sometimes which are customer specific. We are now being very systematically making sure that there is no spots in those pricing list that are eroding our marginality. So that is another area that give me confidence that midterm, we'll be able to extract more value in terms of gross margin.

我們也非常系統地評估我們的邊緣性。該公司在其他市場經營，經營這兩個品牌，確實會產生另一個定價表，有時是針對特定客戶的。我們現在正在非常系統地確保這些定價清單中沒有任何位置會侵蝕我們的邊緣性。因此，這是另一個讓我有信心中期的領域，我們將能夠在毛利率方面獲得更多價值。

Thank you. That's helpful. Thank you, guys.

謝謝。這很有幫助。謝謝你們，夥計們。

Thank you, Corey.

謝謝你，科里。

Kevin, do you want go another round --

凱文，你想再玩一輪嗎--

(Operator Instructions) Kirby Newburger, Benjamin F. Edwards.

（操作員說明）Kirby Newburger、Benjamin F. Edwards。

Sure. Gentlemen, can you hear me?

當然。先生們，你們聽得到我說話嗎？

We do.

我們做到了。

Okay. Antonio, when we spoke a week or two ago, one of the things that was jumped out at me was that -- and maybe it was just in the United States, but over a period of time, your average sale has gone up by 10 or 20 fold and we talked about -- a little bit about the customers that are hotels and country clubs and the airport lounges or whatever. Are those mainly customized? And do they have a higher margin than the non-customized.

好的。安東尼奧，當我們一兩週前交談時，我突然想到的一件事是——也許只是在美國，但在一段時間內，你的平均銷售額上升了 10或20 倍，我們談到了一些關於酒店、鄉村俱樂部和機場休息室等客戶的資訊。那些主要是客製化的嗎？他們的利潤是否比非客製化的更高。

Okay. So Kirby, thank you again. And of course, I welcome any investor to reach us for individual discussion as the one we have regularly with some of you. We're very happy to engage and be transparent. Of course, in the discussion, we don't anticipate any let's say, material non-public information.

好的。柯比，再次感謝你。當然，我歡迎任何投資者與我們聯繫進行個人討論，就像我們定期與你們中的一些人進行的討論一樣。我們很高興參與並保持透明。當然，在討論中，我們不會預期任何重要的非公開資訊。

Then going back on your question, Kirby, let me divide it in 2. First is what we are witnessing on our traditional retail business and then the contract. And let me take US.

然後回到你的問題，Kirby，讓我把它分成 2。首先是我們在傳統零售業務上看到的情況，然後是合約。讓我以美國為例。

So the stretch of the brand in the US, especially if we talk about Natuzzi Italia has been terrific. As Pasquale used to remind us the regional wave of success in the company three decades ago was very much about value for money.

因此，該品牌在美國的發展非常出色，尤其是 Natuzzi Italia。正如帕斯誇萊曾經提醒我們的那樣，三十年前公司在區域性的成功浪潮很大程度上取決於資金的價值。

So it was delivering this innovative colored leather sofa for EUR395, EUR400, EUR410 landed cost, which was, of course, a terrific innovation in the market at a very affordable price. And it was guaranteed the first way of success in the company.

因此，它以 395 歐元、400 歐元、410 歐元的到岸成本提供了這款創新的彩色真皮沙發，這當然是市場上一項了不起的創新，而且價格非常實惠。這也是保證公司成功的第一條路。

Natuzzi Italia now most sold individual product configuration. It's Iago leather (inaudible) is sold nearly to USD14,000 -- USD1,400. So you can think about the stretch of the brand, but that's not only the -- that's only part of the reality because for most of client situation, we're not working any longer to sell a product, but to create with the client project, a solution.

Natuzzi Italia 現在最暢銷的個人產品配置。它的 Iago 皮革（聽不清楚）售價接近 14,000 美元 - 1,400 美元。所以你可以考慮品牌的延伸，但這不僅是現實的一部分，因為對於大多數客戶狀況，我們不再致力於銷售產品，而是與客戶專案一起創造，一個解決方案。

So we have those individual residential project that we call trade because often there is a designer involved, they can go up to USD50, USD100, USD200, USD300 for each project because there are multiple environment, very often in large villas that we can deliver.

因此，我們有那些我們稱之為貿易的個人住宅項目，因為通常會有設計師參與其中，每​​個項目的價格可以高達50 美元、100 美元、200 美元、300 美元，因為有多種環境，通常是在我們可以交付的大型別墅。

And this is happening in our stores. So in our store, both the individual clients tend to buy in higher price ticket products, but especially with the trading contract we serve project rather than individual sales of product. But this still is a channel through mostly our stores.

這正在我們的商店中發生。因此，在我們的商店中，個人客戶都傾向於購買更高價格的產品，但特別是透過我們服務於專案而不是個人銷售的產品的交易合約。但這仍然是我們大多數商店的一個管道。

Contract is a very new, very new avenue for us. While it's been very important for some of the European brand, and Italian brand, I will not name any in particular, but there are some brands for which contract is 40%, 50%, 60% of the total revenue better than in stores. For us, it's a new opportunity.

合約對我們來說是一個非常非常新的途徑。雖然這對一些歐洲品牌和義大利品牌來說非常重要，我不會具體點名，但有些品牌的合約佔總收入的 40%、50%、60% 比在商店裡要好。對我們來說，這是一個新的機會。

We created with a very strong manager and maybe one of the next goal that we're introducing him to you, Raimondo Volpe, contract division. Here, we're talking about more large B2B opportunity in the space of hotel, in the space of retail and, let's say, travel infrastructure, like it could be airport. Or which is very interesting in a dynamic, which is emerging in the Middle East, but another geography, which are branded building.

我們創造了一位非常強大的經理，也許我們向您介紹他的下一個目標之一是合約部門的雷蒙多·沃爾普。在這裡，我們談論的是酒店領域、零售領域以及旅遊基礎設施（例如機場）領域更大型的 B2B 機會。或者在中東新興的動態中非常有趣，但在另一個地理區域，這是品牌建立。

That opportunity typically is made of larger contracts where we try to achieve a very good, let's say, overall breakeven, we tend to have a back on developed rule to say 60%, 70% should be our product, 30%, 40% can be a complementary product. Those large opportunities, clearly, are opportunity where also the counterpart tend to be more price-sensitive.

這個機會通常是由更大的合約組成的，我們試圖實現一個非常好的，比方說，整體盈虧平衡，我們傾向於支持制定的規則，即60%、70% 應該是我們的產品，30%、 40% 可以成為互補產品。顯然，這些巨大的機會是對手往往對價格更加敏感的機會。

So the margin we're looking at is higher to what we are doing in terms of sell-in, but still need to consider that those especially large opportunities tend to be quite competitive. So it's not an area where you get, let's say, the similar margin that we are operating for instance, in our retail stores.

因此，我們所關注的利潤率高於我們在銷售方面的利潤率，但仍需要考慮到那些特別大的機會往往具有相當的競爭力。因此，在這個領域，你無法獲得與我們在零售店營運類似的利潤率。

So long story is to say what. Definitely, Natuzzi Italia has been great elevated. The quality of sales we're doing our stores put Natuzzi Italia, a completely different animal Natuzzi in US 20, 30 years ago. Contract more to come -- maybe in the next press release, also touching goods that we closed a couple of interest contracts we are discussing. I will ask our leader of contract who introduce better this opportunity, which I believe will be very coherent with the strength of the brand and very promising.

這麼長的故事就是要說什麼呢。毫無疑問，Natuzzi Italia 已經得到了極大的提升。我們商店的銷售品質使 Natuzzi Italia 與 20、30 年前美國的 Natuzzi 完全不同。未來還會簽訂更多合約——也許在下一份新聞稿中，還會涉及我們正在討論的幾份利息合約的貨物。我會問我們的合約領導誰能更好地介紹這個機會，我相信這將與品牌的實力非常契合，而且非常有前途。

That answers a lot of my question, but I would still like to know a little bit about -- and maybe the numbers are here, and I don't -- a breakdown of what percentage of sales is the Natuzzi Italia and what percentage of sales is this new contract business.

這回答了我的許多問題，但我仍然想知道一點——也許數字在這裡，但我沒有——Natuzzi Italia 的銷售百分比和銷售就是這項新的合約業務。

So let me clarify, contracts. We do have visibility because I ask, and I must say Carlo and team responded very well to manage our business as some of the parts. So we definitely look at contract as a stand-alone business unit, but the sales that we do are typically Natuzzi Italia product. So you see that part of the Natuzzi Italia sales not as a different kind of, let's say, reported sales because they are not -- which is very important for us. They are not unbranded sales. They are branded sales because by those opportunity, we also look at ways to strengthen, let's say, our brand.

讓我澄清一下，合約。我們確實有可見性，因為我問，我必須說卡洛和團隊對管理我們的業務作為某些部分的反應非常好。因此，我們肯定將合約視為一個獨立的業務部門，但我們所做的銷售通常是 Natuzzi Italia 產品。因此，您會看到 Natuzzi Italia 銷售額的一部分並不是一種不同類型的銷售額，例如報告銷售額，因為它們不是——這對我們來說非常重要。它們不是無品牌銷售。它們是品牌銷售，因為透過這些機會，我們也在尋找加強我們品牌的方法。

If we look specifically at the first quarter 2024, the sales of Natuzzi Italia were EUR29.5 million, which include trade and contract and the sales of Natuzzi Edition were EUR46.5 million, looking at first quarter 2024. So Kirby, what I referred before, is trade and contract are included in Natuzzi Italia sales.

如果我們具體看一下 2024 年第一季度，Natuzzi Italia 的銷售額為 2950 萬歐元，其中包括貿易和合同，Natuzzi Edition 的銷售額為 4650 萬歐元，從 2024 年第一季度來看。所以卡比，我之前提到的，是貿易和合約都包含在 Natuzzi Italia 的銷售中。

Then internally, we don't -- we do have the share of the newly created division and maybe when things will get more mature, we also will be in response for US investor to look at this newly established division that we're really looking to manage as a business unit, not only from an organizational standpoint because we appointed a separate team, but also from an economic standpoint because we're looking at it as a new startup within the group.

然後在內部，我們確實擁有新成立的部門的份額，也許當事情變得更加成熟時，我們也會回應美國投資者關注我們真正正在尋找的這個新成立的部門作為一個業務部門進行管理，不僅從組織的角度來看，因為我們任命了一個單獨的團隊，而且從經濟的角度來看，因為我們將其視為集團內的一個新的新創公司。

But for the time being, we don't disclose that figure in our press release. We might decide to do it, for the time being, those get accounted under Natuzzi Italia sales.

但目前我們不會在新聞稿中透露這個數字。我們可能會決定這樣做，暫時將這些計入 Natuzzi Italia 銷售中。

Thank you. We reached end of our question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over for any further or closing comments.

謝謝。我們的問答環節結束了。我想重新發言以徵求進一步的意見或結束意見。

My side, I will say thank you again, all of you, for being with us. Let me stop here to pass over to Pasquale if you want to add any final remarks in closing this conference.

我這邊，我要再次感謝你們所有人，感謝你們與我們同在。如果您想在本次會議結束時補充任何最後的話，請允許我在此停下來請帕斯誇萊發言。

Antonio, first of all, my personal and sincere compliment. You touched all the points. You answered to all the questions in correct way. I mean, because there have been several questions addressed to you and probably one of the question or the answer that probably we need to address also to our shareholders is that in China, we are teaching them. We are training them how to manage correctly the brand as a retailer.

安東尼奧，首先，我個人誠摯的致意。你觸及了所有要點。您以正確的方式回答了所有問題。我的意思是，因為已經向您提出了幾個問題，我們可能還需要向我們的股東提出的問題或答案之一是，在中國，我們正在教導他們。我們正在培訓他們如何作為零售商正確管理品牌。

In addition to that, also, we are addressing and teaching them, helping them to restructure the JV company. Because as you remember, certainly, Antonio, they just fire 30 people, and they are going to fire additional people. I mean, but -- and then hire more qualified people to manage brand and retailers. I mean, so that's something that you missed.

除此之外，我們也對他們進行演講和教學，幫助他們重組合資公司。因為你肯定記得，安東尼奧，他們只解雇了 30 人，他們還將解僱更多的人。我的意思是，但是——然後僱用更多合格的人員來管理品牌和零售商。我的意思是，這就是你錯過的東西。

Yeah. Thank you for complimenting.

是的。謝謝你的誇獎。

So that's one. Then there is another question. You mentioned the Natuzzi region. Okay. Yes, I strongly believe, as you know, that we should focus on organic growth, okay? And we know that there are improvements to be made in our stores, in our US, in America, but also in other geography where we should improve the consumer experience.

這就是其中之一。那麼還有一個問題。您提到了納圖齊地區。好的。是的，如你所知，我堅信我們應該專注於有機成長，好嗎？我們知道，我們的商店、美國以及其他地區的商店都需要改進，我們應該改善消費者體驗。

And that means that we should make some improvement in merchandising and visual training to the salespeople in the store. I mean, so that's Diego knows very well what we are doing.

這意味著我們應該對店內銷售人員的推銷和視覺培訓進行一些改進。我的意思是，迭戈非常清楚我們在做什麼。

Now in other regions, it's just disciplined in other word, our manager in all the geography, they need a clear direction, they need to implement the brand management in very disciplined way, that's what we are doing.

現在在其他地區，它只是有紀律，換句話說，我們在所有地區的經理，他們需要一個明確的方向，他們需要以非常有紀律的方式實施品牌管理，這就是我們正在做的事情。

That's what we have been doing in the last 8 months, 10 months and has been very much appreciated from the customer that they came to Milano, they came to High Point. They came into New York during the New York Design Week, they are coming here to the Congress also. I mean you addressed very well, all the issue, but there are just those issues.

這就是我們在過去 8 個月、10 個月裡一直在做的事情，客戶非常感謝他們來到米蘭、來到海波因特。他們在紐約設計週期間來到紐約，他們也將來到這裡參加國會。我的意思是你很好地解決了所有問題，但只有這些問題。

We know that we have space for organic growth, we know what we should do, and certainly, that's our priority. So as you know, Antonio, you and I we very much agreed on the company's direction together with all the management team.

我們知道我們有有機成長的空間，我們知道我們應該做什麼，當然，這是我們的首要任務。如你所知，安東尼奧，你和我以及所有管理團隊都非常同意公司的方向。

Other than that, I appreciate all the questions that our shareholder are asking to us that means that they care about our company. And this is very important for us. Thank you very much, everyone.

除此之外，我感謝股東向我們提出的所有問題，這表明他們關心我們的公司。這對我們來說非常重要。非常感謝大家。

Thank you, and thank you, Pasquale, for closing this call. Kevin, I believe we can close it now. Thank you, Pasquale, and thank you, everyone.

謝謝您，也謝謝帕斯誇萊結束這次通話。凱文，我相信我們現在可以結束它了。謝謝你，帕斯卡萊，也謝謝大家。

Thank you. That does conclude today's webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的網路廣播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路並度過美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。