Natuzzi SpA (NTZ) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Natuzzi 2022 fourth quarter and full year financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們，先生們，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Natuzzi 2022 年第四季度和全年財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）

Joining us for today's call are Mr. Antonio Achille, Natuzzi's Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Carlo Silvestri, the Chief Financial Officer of Natuzzi Group; Mr. Pasquale Natuzzi, Founder and Executive Chairman; and Mr. Jason Camp, President Natuzzi Americas; and Piero Direnzo, Investor Relations. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

與我們一起參加今天電話會議的有 Natuzzi 首席執行官 Antonio Achille 先生； Natuzzi集團首席財務官Carlo Silvestri先生；創始人兼執行主席Pasquale Natuzzi先生； Natuzzi 美洲區總裁 Jason Camp 先生；和 Piero Direnzo，投資者關係部。提醒一下，今天的通話正在錄音中。

I'd like to turn the conference over to Piero. Please go ahead.

我想將會議轉交給 Piero。請繼續。

Thank you, Kevin. Good day to everyone. Thank you for joining the Natuzzi's conference call for the fourth quarter and full-year 2022 financial results. After a brief introduction, we will give room for a Q&A session.

謝謝你，凱文。大家好。感謝您參加 Natuzzi 的第四季度和 2022 年全年財務業績電話會議。簡單介紹後，我們將安排問答環節。

Before proceeding, we would like to advise our listeners that our discussion today could contain certain statements that constitute forward-looking statements under the United States securities laws. Obviously, actual results may differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements because of risks and uncertainties that can affect our results of operations and financial condition. Please refer to our most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission for a complete review of those risks. The company assumes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking matters discussed during this call.

在繼續之前，我們想提醒我們的聽眾，我們今天的討論可能包含某些構成美國證券法規定的前瞻性陳述的陳述。顯然，由於可能影響我們的經營業績和財務狀況的風險和不確定性，實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異。請參閱我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的 20-F 表格年度報告，以全面審查這些風險。公司不承擔更新或修改本次電話會議期間討論的任何前瞻性事項的義務。

And now, I would like to turn the call over to the company's Chief Executive Officer. Please, Antonio.

現在，我想把電話轉給公司的首席執行官。拜託，安東尼奧。

Thank you, Piero And Kevin, for kind introduction. Good morning and good afternoon to all the attendants of this 2022 fourth quarter and fiscal year press release.

謝謝 Piero 和 Kevin 的熱情介紹。早上好，下午好，所有參加 2022 年第四季度和財政年度新聞發布會的人員。

I would like to start more from an overview of how the 2022 closed for us. Then I will let Carlo Silvestri, who has been announced already joining our group from Ferragamo, our new CFO, to comment more specifically on figures regarding fourth quarter and fiscal year.

我想從 2022 年如何為我們結束的概述開始。然後，我將讓 Carlo Silvestri（已宣布已從我們的新任首席財務官 Ferragamo 加入我們集團）更具體地評論有關第四季度和財政年度的數據。

So we closed 2022 internal revenue at EUR468 million which is 10% more than last year and some 20% more 2019. If we go back to 2020, that is an increase of 40%. So we kind of added EUR140 million business from the 2020, which was clearly affected by COVID. So I will say high single digit top line increase. This can also, in parallel, continue working on gross margin.

因此，我們 2022 年的內部收入為 4.68 億歐元，比去年增長 10%，比 2019 年增長約 20%。如果我們回到 2020 年，那就是增長 40%。因此，我們從 2020 年開始增加了 1.4 億歐元的業務，這顯然受到了 COVID 的影響。所以我會說高個位數的頂線增長。同時，這也可以繼續提高毛利率。

As you may remember, 2022 was dominated by a strong inflection on general cost and raw material. We were working so to protect in spending our marginality, which is currently 5 percentage point above what it was in 2019. So we were able to protect and expand marginality.

您可能還記得，2022 年主要是總體成本和原材料的強烈變化。我們一直在努力保護我們的邊際性，目前比 2019 年高出 5 個百分點。因此我們能夠保護和擴大邊際性。

In term of EBITDA, that -- in term of operating profit, that resulted in EUR8.4 million, which could have been a higher figure, could have been close to EUR13 million if we didn't have to do accrual for very specific one-off element which will be commented by Carlo later in this section.

就 EBITDA 而言，就營業利潤而言，如果我們不必為非常具體的一項進行應計，則產生了 840 萬歐元，這可能是一個更高的數字，可能接近 1300 萬歐元-off 元素，Carlo 將在本節稍後部分對其進行註釋。

So in general, the trajectory is going north on the two fundamental duration that we have in our long-term plan, which is top line growth and the margin and profitability expansion. At the same time, which is another as a proxy of value creation, we expanded our cash flow from operations, which was close to EUR19 million in 2022. And that figure compared to EUR0.5 million 2021, and EUR4.7 million 2019. So again, through the discipline, we're trying to have also time on working capital even though, as our business has been growing, we've been able to enhance the cash flow generation from operation.

因此，總的來說，在我們長期計劃中的兩個基本持續時間上，軌跡正在向北發展，即收入增長以及利潤率和盈利能力的擴張。與此同時，作為價值創造的另一個代表，我們擴大了運營現金流，2022 年接近 1900 萬歐元。這個數字與 2021 年的 50 萬歐元和 2019 年的 470 萬歐元相比。因此，再次通過紀律，我們也試圖有時間在營運資金上，儘管隨著我們的業務不斷增長，我們已經能夠提高運營產生的現金流量。

Cash position was pretty much the same with the previous year, so we are dealing at EUR54.5 million in term of cash, which is significantly higher than what we need from operation. And I also remind you that we don't have long-term debt. So in a situation of uncertainty like the one we are all facing in the industry, I believe that also should convey a positive message to the investors.

現金狀況與上一年幾乎相同，因此我們的現金交易量為 5450 萬歐元，大大高於我們的運營需求。我還提醒您，我們沒有長期債務。因此，在行業中我們都面臨的不確定情況下，我相信這也應該向投資者傳達積極的信息。

Looking a bit more at the quality of what we have done, I am pleased to report that we are continuing executing the journey that has been initiated by Pasquale Natuzzi of transforming the company in a brand retailer. We set some long-term targets to measure that trajectory, and I was surprised to anticipate reaching that some of those target versus our plan.

進一步審視我們所做工作的質量，我很高興地報告，我們正在繼續執行由 Pasquale Natuzzi 發起的將公司轉型為品牌零售商的旅程。我們設定了一些長期目標來衡量這一軌跡，我很驚訝地預計會實現其中一些目標而不是我們的計劃。

For instance, in 2022, 92% of our total sales came from branded products compared to 89% versus previous year. That is pretty much a significant transformation because, as you all remind, Natuzzi regional started as more an operator and a manufacturer. And the percentage of branded product was not dominant. We set ourselves a target to reach almost in order that the vast majority of sales generated by branded, and we are ahead of that target.

例如，在 2022 年，我們總銷售額的 92% 來自品牌產品，而去年這一比例為 89%。這幾乎是一個重大轉變，因為正如你們所提醒的那樣，Natuzzi regional 一開始更像是一家運營商和製造商。而品牌產品的比例並不佔優勢。我們為自己設定了一個幾乎要達到的目標，以便品牌產生的絕大部分銷售額，我們已經領先於該目標。

And the interesting, if we measure our, let's say, strengths of the brand in the eyes of the consumer, which means measuring it at sell-out, the brand is a EUR830 million brand. So if we consider what we do in terms of [lean] with retail multiplier, the brand is on pace to become a EUR1 billion retail brand. This, I think, is a useful figure to compare it with the player in the industry, which are pure retailer and to compare it with those number at [par with that point].

有趣的是，如果我們衡量我們的品牌在消費者眼中的優勢，這意味著在售罄時衡量它，該品牌是一個價值 8.3 億歐元的品牌。因此，如果我們考慮我們在 [精益] 零售乘數方面所做的事情，該品牌正朝著成為 10 億歐元的零售品牌邁進。我認為，這是一個有用的數字，可以將其與業內純零售商的玩家進行比較，並將其與 [par with that point] 的那些數字進行比較。

The other division we're working on is to continuous working on retail. Retail for us is an objective to accelerate growth, is an objective to expand marginality, and is also an objective to have a better control of the brand. Jason, do you want to mute because we're hearing your message coming in. If you can kindly mute. Thank you.

我們正在努力的另一個部門是繼續致力於零售。零售對我們來說是加速增長的目標，是擴大邊際的目標，也是更好地控製品牌的目標。傑森，你想靜音嗎，因為我們正在聽到你的留言。請你靜音。謝謝。

So at the end of 2022, the percentage of total sales done through retail either directly or through franchising was 61% versus 53% of the previous year. So also on this dimension, we are well on track on our objective to complete our retail transformation. And we overcome in 2022, the number of 700 store -- freestanding store carrying either Natuzzi Italia or Natuzzi Editions. I believe with a global coverage, this is one of the highest figure in term of number of stores distributing a single brand in the industry.

因此，到 2022 年底，通過零售直接或通過特許經營完成的總銷售額的百分比為 61%，而上一年為 53%。因此，在這個方面，我們也正在朝著完成零售轉型的目標邁進。我們將在 2022 年克服 700 家商店的數量——擁有 Natuzzi Italia 或 Natuzzi Editions 的獨立商店。我相信，就全球覆蓋範圍而言，就分銷單一品牌的商店數量而言，這是業內最高的數字之一。

And this leads to another consideration that a lot of the work we are doing currently is to expand organically the performance of the stores. We continue seeking opportunities to expand our network. And I will discuss in a minute our plan for accelerating the opening of additional stores directly operating in US. But if we recognize that one of the, in a sense, less capital intensive opportunity that we have to grow the top line is to make those 700 store performing more in term of sales per square meter in marginality.

這導致了另一個考慮，即我們目前正在做的很多工作都是有機地擴大門店的業績。我們繼續尋找機會擴大我們的網絡。我將在一分鐘內討論我們加速開設更多直接在美國經營的商店的計劃。但是，如果我們認識到，從某種意義上說，我們必須增加收入的資本密集度較低的機會之一就是讓這 700 家商店在每平方米的邊際銷售額方面表現更好。

So a lot of effort which is currently being done in the organization, which led also us create a new division is really to try to create a common methodology that can become an asset, a competitive asset, for our directly operated stores and the for the one operated by our franchisee.

因此，組織中目前正在做很多努力，這也導致我們創建了一個新部門，實際上是在嘗試創建一種通用方法，該方法可以成為我們直營商店和一個由我們的加盟商經營。

I'm happy to report that we continue also working on strengthening our team. Carlo has been longer waited for, has been announced in a separate press release. We just brought onboard a few weeks ago another senior executive, Scott Kruger, who is now in charge on the wholesale business in North America. North America is a special reality because I would say distribution is still a relevant part of the market.

我很高興地報告，我們還在繼續努力加強我們的團隊。卡羅已經等待了更長的時間，已在單獨的新聞稿中宣布。幾週前，我們剛剛聘請了另一位高級管理人員 Scott Kruger，他現在負責北美的批發業務。北美是一個特殊的現實，因為我想說分銷仍然是市場的重要組成部分。

Natuzzi is one of the most known brand in that channel. Actually, it's the first internal brand awareness among European brand. So we envisage a parallel opportunity as we are building the retail to continue serving that market.

Natuzzi 是該渠道中最知名的品牌之一。實際上，這是歐洲品牌中第一個內部品牌意識。因此，我們設想了一個平行的機會，因為我們正在建立零售以繼續為該市場服務。

We realized that we wanted to change gear, so there has been a change in the leadership. We equally realize that we want to increase the coverage in term of rep across the states, and we are now onboarding with very positive results agency. So not exclusive agency, but agency that would bring among their lines also Natuzzi.

我們意識到我們想要換檔，所以領導層發生了變化。我們同樣意識到我們希望增加各州代表的覆蓋範圍，我們現在正在與非常積極的結果代理機構合作。所以不是獨家代理，而是將 Natuzzi 引入他們的產品線的代理。

I was in the US very recently, two weeks ago, and I was particularly happy to see how well is received this opportunity by top agency. I definitely see an opportunity of creating business in their accounts with Natuzzi which is still a very, very well respected and inspirational brand for the large retail in the US. So that is another area where we're working.

兩週前我剛到美國，我特別高興地看到頂級機構對這個機會的接受程度。我肯定看到了在他們的帳戶中與 Natuzzi 建立業務的機會，對於美國的大型零售業來說，Natuzzi 仍然是一個非常非常受尊敬和鼓舞人心的品牌。這是我們工作的另一個領域。

I believe that you are, as we are, interested in the future. The future remains to be, I would say, difficult to read that. As you know, we are clearly for the durable industry for the furniture, leaving a phase of transition after two years, which has been dominated by booming demand and difficulties in fulfilling that demand, the wind changes turning into headwinds mid of April -- mid of 2022. We don't see yet a clear change in trajectory in the sense that the demand remain weaker than it used to be in the previous year, both at wholesale and in term of traffic in our store.

我相信您和我們一樣，對未來感興趣。我想說，未來仍然很難讀懂。如您所知，我們顯然支持家具的耐用行業，兩年後離開了一個過渡階段，該階段一直由需求旺盛和滿足需求的困難主導，4 月中旬風向轉變為逆風 - 中旬到 2022 年。我們還沒有看到明顯的軌跡變化，因為無論是在批發方面還是在我們商店的客流量方面，需求仍然比去年弱。

Looking at the first weeks of the year, we do see encouraging sign when it comes to a few geographies like China, especially for our Natuzzi Editions business, which has been back on growth and also US especially on Natuzzi Editions. So we are cautiously optimistic that the, let's say, the bottom has been reached, and we can hopefully see a recoup of demand. So that is our hope, but at the same time, we are planning and acting as these, let's say, negative phase of the economy should last. What does it mean that? That we're very cautious about spending, SG&A, and our cash position.

回顧今年的頭幾週，我們確實在中國等一些地區看到了令人鼓舞的跡象，尤其是我們的 Natuzzi Editions 業務已經恢復增長，美國尤其是 Natuzzi Editions。因此，我們謹慎樂觀地認為，假設已經觸底，我們有望看到需求回升。所以這是我們的希望，但與此同時，我們正在計劃和行動，比如說，經濟的負面階段應該持續下去。這是什麼意思？我們對支出、SG&A 和我們的現金狀況非常謹慎。

Regarding the cash position, we continue seeking actively the opportunity to sell non-strategic asset chiefly in US and in Italy. We are with active process on those asset, and I hope that in the coming conversation, we can report some positive outcome in that sense.

關於現金頭寸，我們繼續積極尋找機會出售主要在美國和意大利的非戰略資產。我們正在積極處理這些資產，我希望在接下來的對話中，我們可以報告一些積極的結果。

Let me stop here for, let's say, a more general overview of what has been there so far and also, let's say, our mindset. In essence, our mindset is the one which has been put in writing our long-term plan, which is to exploit the potential of this brand on this group, continuing the growth on both the brand and continue achieving that through retail. So our long-term plan has not been changed, and we have the highest confidence that we can achieve it. At the same time, we need to recognize that for the industry, the shift in gear has been pretty brutal, and so we are managing our group to make sure we can navigate these negative circumstance without affecting the overall goal contained in our internal strategic midterm plan.

讓我在這裡停下來，比方說，對到目前為止發生的事情以及我們的心態進行更全面的概述。從本質上講，我們的心態是寫入我們長期計劃的心態，即利用這個品牌在這個群體中的潛力，繼續品牌的增長，並繼續通過零售實現這一目標。所以我們的長期計劃沒有改變，我們最有信心能夠實現。與此同時，我們需要認識到，對於行業來說，齒輪的轉變是相當殘酷的，因此我們正在管理我們的團隊，以確保我們能夠在不影響我們內部戰略中期的總體目標的情況下度過這些負面情況計劃。

Okay. Let me stop here. If you agree, I would pass it over to Carlo, who will now comment some of the figure of 2022. I believe that would be useful especially in consideration that the we had several material one-off events affecting our P&L in 2022, which I believe is useful to characterize to kind of get to a more normalized performance of the --

好的。讓我在這裡停下來。如果你同意，我會把它轉給卡洛，他現在將評論 2022 年的一些數字。我相信這會很有用，特別是考慮到我們在 2022 年有幾個重大的一次性事件影響我們的損益，我相信可以用來描述某種更規範化的表現——

So I suggest that Carlo does these comments on our structure of the P&L, and then we open up for question, both from my section, which is more, let's say, a strategic framework as well to the technical reading of the figures that Carlo is now doing.

因此，我建議卡洛對我們的損益表結構發表評論，然後我們從我的部分開始提出問題，比方說，這是一個戰略框架，也是對卡洛的數據的技術解讀現在在做。

Thank you, Antonio. Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Let me first briefly introduce myself since this is my first conference call with the Natuzzi group. But before doing that, allow me to thank Mr. Natuzzi and Antonio for the opportunity of this incredible exciting experience and my team for the great support that I've received so far.

謝謝你，安東尼奧。女士們先生們，美好的一天。首先讓我簡要介紹一下自己，因為這是我第一次與 Natuzzi 集團進行電話會議。但在此之前，請允許我感謝 Natuzzi 先生和 Antonio 給我這次令人難以置信的激動人心的經歷的機會，以及我的團隊迄今為止對我的大力支持。

Now going back to myself, I spent my last 16 years in Asia. And recently, I served in the last nine years as a CFO for Salvatore Ferragamo that is a luxury brand listed in Italy in the Milan Stock Exchange and is also distributing China through a joint venture as Natuzzi is doing. I was serving at the same time as a CFO, but I was in charge also about the retail excellence and managing directly the stores of Hong Kong and Macau. Thank you very much.

現在回到我自己，我在亞洲度過了我最後的 16 年。最近，我在過去九年擔任 Salvatore Ferragamo 的首席財務官，這是一個在意大利米蘭證券交易所上市的奢侈品牌，也像 Natuzzi 一樣通過合資企業分銷中國。我同時擔任首席財務官，但我也負責卓越零售並直接管理香港和澳門的商店。非常感謝。

Now, going back to the figures after the closing comments of Antonio, I will start with an overview of the 2022 fiscal year with some hints of the fourth quarter. In 2022, total revenues were at EUR468.5 million, up by 9.6% versus 2021 and by 21.1% versus the pre-pandemic 2019. During the year, we were also able to recover from the major supply chain disruption of Jan 2021, and gradually we benefit in the reduction of our order backlog.

現在，回到安東尼奧結束評論後的數據，我將從 2022 財年的概述開始，並提供第四季度的一些提示。 2022 年，總收入為 4.685 億歐元，比 2021 年增長 9.6%，比大流行前的 2019 年增長 21.1%。在這一年中，我們還能夠從 2021 年 1 月的主要供應鏈中斷中恢復過來，並且我們逐漸受益於訂單積壓的減少。

Talking specifically about the gross margin, we achieved a 35.1% versus 36% in 2021 and 29.7% in 2019. As a reminder, in 2022, our industrial operations were deeply affected by both spike in energy cost and inflationary environment. Together, the company decided to protect the margin, and during the year, through different phases, we did apply price increase all over the world. This has been fully effective only in the last part of the year where we did achieve in the last quarter a margin of 37% compared to the yearly 35.1%.

具體談到毛利率，我們實現了 35.1%，而 2021 年和 2019 年分別為 36% 和 29.7%。提醒一下，在 2022 年，我們的工業運營深受能源成本飆升和通脹環境的影響。公司共同決定保護利潤率，在這一年中，通過不同階段，我們確實在全球範圍內實施了提價。這僅在今年最後一部分才完全有效，我們在最後一個季度確實實現了 37% 的利潤率，而年度利潤率為 35.1%。

Talking about the cost of sales is important as Antonio was mentioning that we recorded a EUR2.2 million accrual not related to our core operation but related to the cost of the labor to restructure our Italian operations. If we exclude these from the fourth quarter 2022 when it has been recorded, the gross margin of the last quarter would have been 38.8%.

談論銷售成本很重要，因為安東尼奧提到我們記錄了 220 萬歐元的應計費用，與我們的核心業務無關，但與重組意大利業務的勞動力成本有關。如果我們在記錄的 2022 年第四季度將這些排除在外，則上一季度的毛利率將為 38.8%。

Operating expenses that, as Antonio was mentioning, is always a focus of the company to find efficiencies that includes the selling and administrative expenses were impacting 33.3% on our revenues compared to 34.8% in 2021 and 35.5%. Regarding detailed expenses, it is important to underline that we see a decrease in the impact of the transportation cost over the total sales that now impact 11.9% versus 12.8% in 2021.

正如安東尼奧提到的那樣，運營費用一直是公司尋找效率的重點，包括銷售和管理費用對我們收入的影響為 33.3%，而 2021 年為 34.8% 和 35.5%。關於詳細費用，重要的是要強調，我們看到運輸成本對總銷售額的影響有所下降，現在影響 11.9%，而 2021 年為 12.8%。

Talking about FX, although it was not related to our core business, we recorded two main factor. The first one is a cost of labor related to our stock option plan for EUR1 million. And the other one is a EUR1 million contingency for a legal dispute over a land in Brazil. Therefore, the operating profit in 2022 landed at EUR8.4 million compared to EUR4.9 million in 2021 and versus an operating loss of EUR22.5 million in 2019.

談到外匯，雖然它與我們的核心業務無關，但我們記錄了兩個主要因素。第一個是與我們 100 萬歐元的股票期權計劃相關的人工成本。另一個是 100 萬歐元的應急費用，用於巴西土地的法律糾紛。因此，2022 年的營業利潤為 840 萬歐元，而 2021 年為 490 萬歐元，而 2019 年的營業虧損為 2250 萬歐元。

Excluding these phenomenon not related to our core business, we will now compare a EUR12.9 million operating profit equivalent to 2.7% of revenues versus 5.8% in 2021. The spike of interest provoked an increase in our finance cost that landed at EUR8.5 million versus the EUR6.8 million in 2021 . It is important to also underline in these EUR8.5 million, there are EUR2.8 million related to the rental contract and the application on the IFRS 16.

排除這些與我們的核心業務無關的現象，我們現在將 1290 萬歐元的營業利潤（相當於收入的 2.7%）與 2021 年的 5.8% 進行比較。利息飆升導致我們的財務成本增加，達到 8.5 歐元百萬歐元，而 2021 年為 680 萬歐元。還需要強調的是，在這 850 萬歐元中，有 280 萬歐元與租賃合同和 IFRS 16 的應用有關。

The last quarter was impacted by the FX effect. We did not change our strategy practices and hedging techniques just due to the reversal of the euro, US depreciation, we recorded in the last quarter EUR2.4 million loss. But over the year, we did achieve a EUR2.4 million positive results.

上一季度受到外匯效應的影響。我們並沒有因為歐元逆轉、美元貶值而改變我們的策略實踐和對沖技術，我們在上一季度錄得 240 萬歐元的虧損。但在過去的一年裡，我們確實取得了 240 萬歐元的積極成果。

Talking precisely about our joint venture in China, the difficult business remained over the year, and at the end, the significant slowdown in the activities provoked our -- brought our profit to EUR400,000. I'd just remind that we own a 49% stake in our joint venture. In 2021, we recorded a profit of EUR3.6 million.

確切地說，我們在中國的合資企業，困難的業務一直持續到一年，最後，活動的顯著放緩激怒了我們——使我們的利潤達到 400,000 歐元。我只想提醒一下，我們擁有合資企業 49% 的股份。 2021 年，我們實現了 360 萬歐元的利潤。

But talking about the joint venture, it is extremely important that, in 2022, we received EUR3.7 million in dividend and we received, in 2023, a EUR3.2 million in capital reduction. The profit of the joint venture, nevertheless, is important to underline that, even in this challenging year, has been profitable.

但談到合資企業，極為重要的是，我們在 2022 年收到了 370 萬歐元的股息，並在 2023 年收到了 320 萬歐元的減資。然而，合資企業的利潤很重要，可以強調即使在這個充滿挑戰的一年裡，它仍然盈利。

Making a last reference to the comments of Antonio, cash for us is extremely important, so we were able to maintain our cash position at EUR54 million. And it's extremely important to underline that our operation were able to achieve a positive cash flow of EUR18.7 million that we did invest in EUR9 million in capital expenditure and in repayment of a long-term loan.

最後參考 Antonio 的評論，現金對我們來說極其重要，因此我們能夠將現金頭寸維持在 5400 萬歐元。非常重要的是要強調我們的運營能夠實現 1870 萬歐元的正現金流，我們確實投資了 900 萬歐元用於資本支出和償還長期貸款。

This is overall the picture of our performance in 2022, and I would like now to give room to Q&A session.

這是我們在 2022 年的總體表現，現在我想給問答環節留出空間。

(Operator Instructions) David Kanen.

（操作員說明）David Kanen。

So I guess I'd like to call out what I would call the encouraging signs. If we add back the nonrecurring item, the labor costs that affected gross margin, we would have been nearly 39%. And then there was some nonrecurring items, extraordinary items in the OpEx line whereby we would have had a significant operating profit. So I'd like to just call that out.

所以我想我想說出我稱之為令人鼓舞的跡象。如果我們加上非經常性項目，影響毛利率的勞動力成本，我們將接近 39%。然後是一些非經常性項目，OpEx 系列中的非常項目，我們本可以從中獲得可觀的營業利潤。所以我只想說出來。

What's exciting is as we grow and scale the business, we see the significant leverage in the financial model. Now that that being said, it would have been nice just to show after all of these items have bigger profit, but it is encouraging.

令人興奮的是，隨著我們業務的發展和擴展，我們看到了財務模型中的重要槓桿作用。話雖這麼說，但在所有這些項目都有更大的利潤之後，如果能展示一下就好了，但這是令人鼓舞的。

So in the past, you guys have called out backlog in written orders. We know that traffic is down at the retail level. Could you give us some sense where backlog is currently? I believe last quarter, I'm going by memory, it was around $80 million. And then also what type of declines are we seeing in written orders given the weaker housing market economic backdrop?

所以在過去，你們以書面訂單的形式提出積壓。我們知道零售層面的流量正在下降。您能否告訴我們目前積壓的情況？我相信上個季度，根據記憶，大約是 8000 萬美元。在房地產市場經濟疲軟的背景下，我們還看到書面訂單出現什麼樣的下降？

So thank you for your question. I might take this one. So the reason why we are putting a lot of emphasis in the past -- to the backlog because it was a main -- for two reasons because [it was an obstacle] for us to delivering the revenue we could have delivered; and second, because it was becoming very visible obstacle to maintain the level of service to our client we aspire.

謝謝你的問題。我可能會拿這個。因此，我們過去非常重視積壓的原因，因為它是主要的 - 有兩個原因，因為[它是我們交付本可以交付的收入的障礙]；其次，因為要維持我們嚮往的客戶的服務水平，這已成為非常明顯的障礙。

The backlog now went back to what they can define as physiological level to standard level, which is pretty much EUR60 million, which is what -- typically, we need to do a proper planning of the factories. In term of written order, the year, as I mentioned in my press release, started to a level that is, let's say, below our expectation. What is somehow positive is that if you read these first 14 weeks, and we divided by two, the last seven weeks saw a relatively stronger [turn] versus the previous one.

積壓現在回到了他們可以定義為生理水平到標準水平的水平，這幾乎是 6000 萬歐元，這通常是我們需要對工廠進行適當的規劃。就書面訂單而言，正如我在新聞稿中提到的那樣，這一年開始達到低於我們預期的水平。某種程度上積極的是，如果你閱讀前 14 週，我們將其除以二，那麼與前一周相比，最後七週的 [轉向] 相對較強。

But clearly, we are facing a level that is not in line with what we want to have, and we aspire to have also in light of our production capacity. I will just remind that Natuzzi Italia gets produced globally in Italy where we have a significant population of workers and a significant safe production capacity with five factories. And at the moment, especially for Natuzzi Italia, the level of order we are receiving does not allow us to fully occupy those factories.

但很明顯，我們面臨的水平與我們想要的水平不符，我們也渴望擁有我們的生產能力。我只想提醒一下，Natuzzi Italia 在意大利全球範圍內生產，我們擁有大量工人和擁有五家工廠的重要安全生產能力。而目前，特別是對於 Natuzzi Italia，我們收到的訂單水平不允許我們完全佔用這些工廠。

So that is the main element that we are working to improve, both as a combination of opportunity to sustain our growth ambition, but also as a need to keep busy at a reasonable level our factories. So that's a bit -- a long answer. So inventory is back to standard level. I don't have the figure in front of me, but it's in the ballpark of EUR55 million, EUR60 million. And when talking about, let's say, pace of orders, as I mentioned before, below expectation.

因此，這是我們正在努力改進的主要因素，既是維持我們增長雄心的機會，也是讓我們的工廠保持在合理水平忙碌的需要。所以這有點——一個很長的答案。所以庫存回到了標準水平。我沒有眼前的數字，但大概在 5500 萬歐元、6000 萬歐元之間。正如我之前提到的，在談論訂單速度時，比方說，低於預期。

And it's a different situation among regions. We have China, which was extremely -- it's different, sorry, different across region in China. So China, which is mostly operating to franchising, we see a recovery of Natuzzi Editions business, while Natuzzi Italia was quite [stuck] there in the channel and the recovery is lower.

而且各個地區情況不同。我們有中國，這是非常不同的，對不起，中國不同地區不同。因此，主要經營特許經營的中國，我們看到了 Natuzzi Editions 業務的複蘇，而 Natuzzi Italia 相當 [卡住] 在渠道中，復甦較低。

Natuzzi Editions North America is above budget but below last year. And Europe is a more -- a mixed picture. And I think at the moment, Europe is the continent which is a bit more difficult to predict because its economic environment is the one which is still struggling to find a way out of the last -- past [grueling] months.

Natuzzi Editions North America 高於預算但低於去年。而歐洲則是一幅更複雜的圖景。我認為目前，歐洲是一個更難預測的大陸，因為它的經濟環境仍在努力尋找擺脫過去 - 過去 [艱苦] 幾個月的方法。

So I think we will see first recovery coming from US, and China is a combination of both the market condition and also the action we are taking. And I think, let's say, turning point for West Europe is less easy to predict in terms of timing.

所以我認為我們將首先看到美國的複蘇，而中國是市場狀況和我們正在採取的行動的結合。而且我認為，比方說，就時間而言，西歐的轉折點不太容易預測。

Okay. And, guys, just to recap: the progress, which is gross margins moving up significantly, this is the result of a shift in mix, primarily the branded product. It seems away from wholesale. And in the past, you've talked about opening up 10 stores in the US, 10 DOS stores, which would continue to grow DOS and flow through the P&L, higher-margin branded product. And then also, you've talked about Factory 4.0.

好的。而且，伙計們，只是回顧一下：進展，即毛利率顯著上升，這是組合轉變的結果，主要是品牌產品。它似乎遠離批發。過去，你談到在美國開設 10 家商店，10 家 DOS 商店，這些商店將繼續增加 DOS 並通過利潤率更高的品牌產品流動。然後，您還談到了工廠 4.0。

Just a suggestion, as an investor, what I read in your press release is postponement of some planned investments for Factory 4.0, which I understood as being accretive to gross margin and then also paring back the number of openings in North America from 10 to six. I would encourage you to actually put your foot on the gas pedal to -- I know you're trying to conserve cash, but perhaps to get rid of non-core assets, real estate to accelerate this transformation to higher-margin product and to greater efficiency in the factory.

只是一個建議，作為投資者，我在你的新聞稿中讀到的是推遲了工廠 4.0 的一些計劃投資，我認為這會增加毛利率，然後還將北美的空缺數量從 10 個減少到 6 個.我會鼓勵你實際踩下油門——我知道你正在努力保存現金，但也許是為了擺脫非核心資產、房地產，以加速向更高利潤產品的轉變，並工廠效率更高。

During this time of, let's call it slowness, economically, we can play some offense and yield even better results than what we did on an operating basis in the long term versus Q4. So that's my feedback. I mean, I would love to hear your commentary on that. If those investments are going to yield better operating profit, why would we be pulling back?

在這段時間裡，我們稱之為緩慢，經濟上，我們可以發揮一些進攻作用，並產生比我們在長期運營基礎上對第四季度所做的更好的結果。這就是我的反饋。我的意思是，我很想听聽您對此的評論。如果這些投資能夠產生更好的營業利潤，我們為什麼要撤回投資？

No. Strategically, Dave -- and I speak, let's say, for the group because we have constant alignment with the Board and with the Chairman. Strategically, we cannot be more in line in agreement with you. We definitely don't want to pull out from our retail strategy in 2023. We actually confirmed six openings. And I would say, some of those are pretty signature openings, like the main asset is going to be 10,000 square feet in the Golden Mile. We are near the [downtown], so really kind of flagship location that would be used.

不，從戰略上講，戴夫——我說，比方說，代表集團，因為我們與董事會和主席保持一致。從戰略上講，我們非常同意您的看法。我們絕對不想在 2023 年退出我們的零售戰略。我們實際上確認了 6 個空缺。我會說，其中一些是非常有標誌性的開口，比如主要資產將在 Golden Mile 佔地 10,000 平方英尺。我們靠近 [市中心]，所以非常適合使用旗艦店。

And there will be Atlanta. There will be San Diego, and [there] would be the first [of these] for Natuzzi Editions. So we are keeping the pace, considering the constraints. We are trying to remove, as you mentioned, the constraints. The way we are trying to move some of these financial constraints is also rate, the disposal of non-strategic assets, the largest one is [on point].

還會有亞特蘭大。將會有聖地亞哥，[那裡] 將是 Natuzzi Editions 的第一個[其中]。因此，考慮到限制因素，我們正在跟上步伐。正如您提到的，我們正試圖消除這些限制。我們試圖改變其中一些財務限制的方式也是利率，非戰略資產的處置，最大的一種是 [on point]。

We're actively working on the dossier. As I mentioned, it's something I cannot be more precise. But I hope that sooner rather than later, I can give you some positive outcome. As you can imagine, given the high interest rate, it's not the easiest way at the moment to sell real estate assets because the loan to value for a potential buyer is not easier.

我們正在積極處理檔案。正如我所提到的，這是我不能更精確的事情。但我希望我能盡快給你一些積極的結果。正如您所想像的那樣，鑑於高利率，目前出售房地產資產並不是最簡單的方法，因為為潛在買家提供價值貸款並不容易。

But really, because of the determination you mentioned before that this money could be actively reinvested to increase efficiency in our factory and to open more in the US, we are continuing [pursuing that] option. So we are not stepping back in term of strategy. We just need to finalize the strategy and we're looking also the standard way to achieve that goal.

但實際上，由於您之前提到的可以將這筆錢積極再投資以提高我們工廠的效率並在美國開設更多工廠的決心，我們將繼續[追求]選擇。因此，我們不會在戰略方面後退。我們只需要完成戰略，我們也在尋找實現該目標的標準方法。

Okay. So you're reiterating those plans to continue with Factory 4.0 and to continue to open branded DOS stores in North America then?

好的。因此，您是在重申繼續 Factory 4.0 並繼續在北美開設品牌 DOS 商店的計劃嗎？

Correct. I don't know, Jason, if you want to make any comment. And again, I think, as I mentioned before, it is a dual strategy when it comes to retail because, yes, we want to open new stores. But the other things we want to continue is to increase like for like because we do see that among our 52 stores, which are directly operated, there is still a significant variation of performances.

正確的。傑森，我不知道你是否想發表任何評論。再一次，我認為，正如我之前提到的，在零售方面這是一種雙重戰略，因為，是的，我們想開新店。但我們想要繼續的另一件事是增加點贊，因為我們確實看到在我們的 52 家直營店中，業績仍然存在顯著差異。

Some of those variations are justified by structural elements. The company has been opening the stores since a few years now. And the location, maybe they were initially spotted for some of the stores. [They won't be a location] that now we would consider ideal. Also, there is some structural factor. But other than that, we want to improve the productivity of the store.

其中一些變化由結構元素證明是合理的。幾年以來，該公司一直在開設門店。還有位置，也許他們最初是為某些商店發現的。 [他們不會是一個位置]，現在我們認為是理想的。此外，還有一些結構性因素。但除此之外，我們還想提高商店的生產力。

So for us, when we talk about retail, yes, there is new opening, but we see a very important opportunity also of increasing the productivity of the current store. That would also facilitate a new opening because given the current economics, it's really very attractive.

所以對我們來說，當我們談論零售時，是的，有新的開業，但我們也看到了一個非常重要的機會，可以提高現有商店的生產力。這也將促進新的開放，因為考慮到當前的經濟狀況，它確實非常有吸引力。

By the way, if any of you investors want to open a franchise, you're welcome. One of our stores normally has a payback in 16, 18 months and then start generating double-digit EBITDA. But working on organic improvement will also shorten the payback of those investments. So we're also working that as a way to facilitate the enrollment of additional franchisee partner.

順便說一句，如果你們中的任何一位投資者想要開設特許經營權，我們都歡迎。我們的一家商店通常會在 16、18 個月內收回投資，然後開始產生兩位數的 EBITDA。但是致力於有機改進也會縮短這些投資的回報期。因此，我們也在努力將其作為一種方式來促進其他加盟商合作夥伴的註冊。

Jason, Pasquale, if you want to provide any color, respectively, on US or retail, of course. I don't intend to monopolize the dialogue. You are very welcome to join. And I must say, Pasquale has been an active force also in driving this acceleration on retail. Jason, do you want to provide any color on US, maybe?

Jason、Pasquale，當然，如果您想分別在美國或零售店提供任何顏色。我不打算壟斷對話。非常歡迎你加入。我必須說，Pasquale 一直是推動零售業加速發展的積極力量。傑森，你想為美國提供任何顏色嗎？

Sure, I'd be happy to, Dave. First, forward looking, as the release suggested, we've got six DOS that we plan to open this year, in this case, all Natuzzi Italia, adding volume to our flagship factory in Italy, plus the FOS in -- around the US, mostly Natuzzi Editions. So a total of nine openings projected in the US for the year.

當然，我很樂意，戴夫。首先，前瞻性，正如發布所暗示的那樣，我們計劃今年開設六個 DOS，在這種情況下，所有 Natuzzi Italia 都會增加我們在意大利的旗艦工廠的產量，以及在美國各地的 FOS ，主要是 Natuzzi 版本。因此，今年預計在美國共有 9 個職位空缺。

I would say that as we look at our like-for-like performance, we finished 2022 basically flat to 2021 from a like-for-like retail performance. Obviously, a stronger start to the year, slower finish, but I think what's most important is that when we look at, let's say, our current pace of business in the last three months, six months, those like-for-like stores are still up between 40% and 50% to 2019.

我想說的是，當我們查看我們的同類業績時，我們從同類零售業績到 2022 年基本持平於 2021 年。顯然，今年開局強勁，收尾較慢，但我認為最重要的是，當我們查看過去三個月、六個月的當前業務速度時，那些同類商店是到 2019 年仍增長 40% 至 50%。

So while a lot of companies, retail businesses kind of reset down much closer to 2019, our like-for-like performance has been reset to a much higher average. And it really encourages us for the future strength of our growth as we open new units.

因此，雖然許多公司、零售業務在接近 2019 年時都進行了重置，但我們的同類業績已重置為更高的平均水平。隨著我們開設新單位，它確實鼓勵了我們未來的增長實力。

Okay. I appreciate you calling out the focus on organic growth or same-store sales, and that's the critical metric. A couple more questions, and I'll go back to queue.

好的。我很感激你呼籲關注有機增長或同店銷售，這是關鍵指標。還有幾個問題，我會回去排隊。

So David, just to -- sorry to interrupt you. Sorry. But just to give you a bit of color why we are so passionate about this, we see that in store -- so just to give you some color, we saw that in stores, where we change, for instance, just the leader of the team and we do a more accurate management of some of the levers we have, the results are pretty astonishing.

大衛，抱歉打斷你。對不起。但只是為了給你一點顏色，為什麼我們對此如此熱衷，我們在商店裡看到了 - 所以只是為了給你一些顏色，我們在商店裡看到了，例如，我們改變的只是領導者團隊，我們對我們擁有的一些槓桿進行了更準確的管理，結果非常驚人。

Just let me pull out the two stores. One is [Westfield], which is one location we had for Natuzzi Italia in London in a high-end retail park. The store is performing 68% above last year. But as you remember, it was a very, very strong part of the year, and it's significantly above our internal budget. This is because we changed the team. We created better dynamics, same -- and Jason can comment.

就讓我把那兩家店拉出來吧。一個是 [Westfield]，這是我們在倫敦的一個高端零售園區為 Natuzzi Italia 設計的地點。該店的業績比去年高出 68%。但正如您所記得的那樣，這是一年中非常非常強勁的部分，它大大超出了我們的內部預算。這是因為我們換了團隊。我們創造了更好的動力，同樣——傑森可以發表評論。

It's happening to our Madison store, which historically, despite the iconic location, was not as sales productive as how we wished. Again, new team, attention to details. Now, Madison is depending on demand, so either the first or among the first four top stores in US. So that the reason why we say less -- of course, expand our footprint. We already have 700 stores. We're going to spend it. But let's recognize that even though 700 stores today were performing homogeneously on a certain level, that will be solving a lot of our goals already.

這發生在我們的麥迪遜商店，儘管地處標誌性位置，但從歷史上看，它的銷售效率並不像我們希望的那樣。同樣，新團隊，注重細節。現在，麥迪遜取決於需求，所以要么是美國第一家，要么是前四家頂級商店之一。所以我們少說的原因——當然是擴大我們的足跡。我們已經有 700 家商店。我們要花掉它。但是讓我們認識到，即使今天 700 家商店在某種程度上表現一致，這也已經解決了我們的許多目標。

Sorry, Dave. I hope I didn't frustrate you by interrupting you.

對不起，戴夫。我希望我沒有因為打斷你而讓你失望。

No, no, I appreciate that color. I mean that's actually been my belief and assumption that there is a tremendous opportunity to increase average unit volume when I compare you to your peers. So I appreciate that call out. So just two more quick questions. How much cash is in the China JV? That's the first one.

不，不，我喜歡那種顏色。我的意思是，這實際上是我的信念和假設，即當我將您與同行進行比較時，存在增加平均單位體積的巨大機會。所以我很感激你的呼籲。所以還有兩個快速問題。中國合資企業有多少現金？這是第一個。

Just a clarification, and then [I'll let in Carlo]. The JV, of course, is part of a listed company. So we can report the last certified figure, which has gone in the 20th. So we can just share that figure. So please, Carlo and Piero, share the figure.

只是一個澄清，然後 [我會讓 Carlo 進來]。合資企業當然是上市公司的一部分。所以我們可以報告最後一個認證數字，它已經在 20 日消失了。所以我們可以分享這個數字。所以，Carlo 和 Piero，請分享這個數字。

So the JV reported EUR33 million in terms of cash. And that has been the result of the sales, the distribution of dividends, and the capital reduction together versus the last part of the year, an increase in the purchase of the stock, the JV, and a decreasing of the orders. So that's the results, but we still have EUR33 million.

因此，合資企業報告的現金為 3300 萬歐元。這是銷售、股息分配和減資的結果，與去年下半年相比，股票購買量增加、合資企業增加，訂單減少。這就是結果，但我們仍有 3300 萬歐元。

Okay. And when you say EUR33 million, is that the total, and our portion is roughly half of that? Or are you saying after 49%, it's EUR33 million.

好的。當你說 3300 萬歐元時，這是總數嗎？我們的份額大約是其中的一半？或者你是說在 49% 之後是 3300 萬歐元。

It's the total, but these are referring on not audited numbers by, let's say -- that are not published by the JV.

這是總數，但這些指的是未經審計的數字，比方說 - 不是由合資企業發布的。

Okay. And then --

好的。進而 -

Just a clarification there. [It's important]. So if we look at the -- and again, we should be just reporting official number because the JV is also part of a -- it's also owned by Kuka, which is also a public company. So what happened in looking at the delta of cash versus plus last reported year, it happened to [offend].

那裡只是一個澄清。 [這一點很重要]。因此，如果我們再看一遍，我們應該只報告官方數字，因為合資企業也是一個的一部分——它也由庫卡所有，庫卡也是一家上市公司。因此，在查看去年報告的現金增量與正值增量時發生了什麼，它碰巧 [冒犯]。

One, let's say cash distribution, a capital reduction of some EUR9 million in total if we take euro. Then, as I referred before, the JV itself invested some EUR15 million in stock. Why that? Because, as I mentioned before, we've moved from a phase where the issue was having the product to a situation where it's more about selling.

第一，假設現金分配，如果我們採用歐元，總共減少約 900 萬歐元的資本。然後，正如我之前提到的，合資企業本身投資了大約 1500 萬歐元的股票。為什麼？因為，正如我之前提到的，我們已經從問題在於產品的階段轉變為更多關於銷售的情況。

So in the first part of the 2022, the JV took the decision of investing in some inventories in a significant manner. So when you look at the total active balance sheet of the JV, you'll find that between fixed asset and cash, the total isn't changed. [The method] of the distribution was changed [in the] distribution because it's been reduced, the cash, in favor of inventory. So there's been no dilapidation of cash. There has been just a different use of that cash.

因此，在2022年上半年，合資公司決定對部分存貨進行重大投資。因此，當您查看合資企業的總資產負債表時，您會發現固定資產和現金之間的總額沒有變化。分配的 [方法] [在] 分配中發生了變化，因為現金減少了，有利於庫存。所以現金沒有破損。這些現金的用途有所不同。

Yes. Correct. Absolutely correct.

是的。正確的。完全正確。

I understand. And then, if you could take a stab at gross margin post Factory 4.0, I know we've deferred or postponed some of those investments, but I'm thinking longer term, one, two, three years out. And it seems to me like we can get to a low 40%, maybe 42% type of gross margin.

我明白。然後，如果你能在 Factory 4.0 之後試一試毛利率，我知道我們已經推遲或推遲了其中的一些投資，但我想的是更長期的、一年、兩年、三年後的投資。在我看來，我們可以達到 40% 的低毛利率，也許是 42% 的毛利率。

What would have been the effect if we had fully deployed Factory 4.0 at the current revenue run rate? Would we get into the low 40s or not quite yet?

如果我們以當前的收入運行率完全部署 Factory 4.0，會產生什麼影響？我們會進入 40 多歲還是還不到 40 歲？

So I can answer you in a bit more elaborated way, but it's not just because I won't go to straight to the point, but because it's a complex reality. So we have four main areas of production which are directly operated. So we have Italy. We have Romania. We have Shanghai in China. We have Shanghai and another city, [Xinjiang]. And then we have Salvador da Bahia.

所以我可以用更詳細的方式回答你，但這不僅僅是因為我不會開門見山，而是因為這是一個複雜的現實。因此，我們有四個直接經營的主要生產區域。所以我們有意大利。我們有羅馬尼亞。我們在中國有上海。我們有上海和另一個城市，[新疆]。然後我們有 Salvador da Bahia。

Each of those production facility has very different cost of production as a matter of cost of labor, efficiency, utilization of the factory, and cost of materials because the material depend very much on where you produce. In addition, we are, as we planned, working in outsourcing for the time being in Vietnam, which has a strong advantage in term of duties to serve US.

這些生產設施中的每一個在勞動力成本、效率、工廠利用率和材料成本方面都有非常不同的生產成本，因為材料在很大程度上取決於你的生產地點。另外，我們按照計劃，暫時在越南從事外包工作，越南在為美國服務的職責方面具有很強的優勢。

So the first way to reduce the cost of production and to spend margin is an optimal utilization of those platform. So for instance, just to quote you a figure, moving a production unit from China to Vietnam allows, on average, between 15 and 18 percentage points more. It's a combination of labor cost but especially duties. So you can easily understand that that provides us an incentive to do so, especially for those large clients that can be served with stock order from Vietnam.

因此，降低生產成本和花費利潤的第一種方法是優化利用這些平台。因此，例如，僅引用一個數字，將生產單位從中國轉移到越南平均可以多出 15 到 18 個百分點。這是勞動力成本的組合，尤其是職責。所以你可以很容易地理解，這為我們提供了這樣做的動力，特別是對於那些可以從越南獲得庫存訂單的大客戶。

So the first lever to optimize the cost of production of this [part and] gross margin is an optimal location of the sourcing in production choices.

因此，優化該[零件和]毛利率的生產成本的第一個槓桿是生產選擇中採購的最佳位置。

When it comes to Natuzzi Italia, as I told you, it's entirely produced in Italy. There we placed the game of the Factory 4.0, especially on that part of production. So I don't have a precise figure to quote on what should be the short-term expectation. But clearly, 4.0, we assess it in the pilot that we've done. And it's beneficial in term of margin improvement.

談到 Natuzzi Italia，正如我告訴過你的，它完全在意大利生產。我們在那裡放置了工廠 4.0 的遊戲，特別是在生產的那一部分。所以我沒有一個準確的數字來引用短期預期。但很明顯，4.0，我們在我們已經完成的試點中對其進行了評估。這對提高利潤率是有益的。

And the topic that is of paramount importance at this phase, even more than rolling out this Factory 4.0 technology, is ensuring an adequate utilization of the factories because factories have functioning costs, which are fixed label. To understand, it's fixed because we cannot [rule out] people. So we need to make sure that we have a good level of utilization to start with, which is a of a higher relevance in this phase than the benefit that can provide the Factory 4.0 technology.

在這個階段最重要的話題，甚至比推出這項工廠 4.0 技術還要重要，是確保工廠的充分利用，因為工廠有運作成本，這是固定的標籤。要理解，它是固定的，因為我們不能[排除]人。所以我們需要確保我們有一個良好的利用率水平，這在這個階段比可以提供 Factory 4.0 技術的好處具有更高的相關性。

There's a reason why we're also saying that in this phase, we are having a more gradual rollout of the Factory 4.0 technology in Italy because the priority at this moment is really to fulfill the capacity because that will bring the highest benefit in term of reduction of cost of production.

我們還說在這個階段，我們在意大利更逐步地推出工廠 4.0 技術是有原因的，因為目前的首要任務是實現產能，因為這將帶來最大的收益降低生產成本。

Okay. But in the past, you've said that you expect a mid to high single-digit improvement in those factories that have been automated with Factory 4.0. Is that still a fair statement, [5% to 7%]?

好的。但在過去，您曾說過，您希望在那些已通過工廠 4.0 實現自動化的工廠中實現中高個位數的改進。這仍然是一個公平的說法嗎，[5% 到 7%]？

Yes, it is. I'll talk about the high single digit. It still is the case, but that needs to happen with factory, which is a good level of utilization. So [that needs a good] level of utilization. So we need now to make sure we have a good level [of utilization] of those factories. Then the Factory 4.0 technology can provide an overdrive, but provided we have a good level of utilization.

是的。我會談談高個位數。情況仍然如此，但這需要在工廠中發生，這是一個很好的利用率水平。所以[這需要一個很好的]利用水平。所以我們現在需要確保我們對這些工廠有良好的[利用率]。然後工廠 4.0 技術可以提供超速驅動，但前提是我們有良好的利用率。

A good level of utilization for us means 85% plus because it's a fixed cost business. When you go below that level, the cost of production increases quite significantly because the cost of functioning, so electricity and whatever, plus the cost of labor get absorbed by a lower volume of production.

對我們來說，良好的利用率意味著 85% 以上，因為這是一項固定成本業務。當你低於這個水平時，生產成本會顯著增加，因為運行成本，所以電力和其他任何東西，加上勞動力成本都會被較低的生產量吸收。

So if we were to, like it was last year, in a situation of full saturation of the factory, the Factory 4.0 would have provided the kind of incremental benefit you mentioned, and we would have accelerated the investment. In this phase, where we have this saturated factory, the priority for us is more commercial. It will make sure that Natuzzi Italia can regain the growth momentum needed to fulfill the factories.

因此，如果我們像去年那樣，在工廠完全飽和的情況下，工廠 4.0 將提供您提到的那種增量收益，我們將加快投資。在這個階段，我們擁有這個飽和的工廠，我們的首要任務是更加商業化。這將確保 Natuzzi Italia 能夠重新獲得滿足工廠需求的增長勢頭。

Yes. Okay. I really don't have any more questions. I'm just going to make a comment, and I think we're in agreement here, but you called out that there's opportunity to grow same-store sales in your direct operated stores. I would exert you guys and encourage you to accelerate that to perhaps go to be even more aggressive during the soft patch in the economy. Because, ultimately, as you said, you have more control.

是的。好的。我真的沒有更多問題了。我只是想發表評論，我認為我們在這里達成一致，但你說有機會在你的直營店中增加同店銷售額。我會給你們施加壓力，並鼓勵你們加快速度，以便在經濟疲軟期間變得更加積極。因為，最終，正如您所說，您擁有更多控制權。

You don't have a lot of control with a third-party retailer selling Natuzzi product, whereas you can better train your people and align them and still potentially affect same-store sales growth. And then, of course, we know the impact, as you said, having the factory at fuller capacity improves gross margins, okay? And then, of course, we know selling branded product is in the probably mid-70% gross profit range. So I would actually encourage you guys again to play offense and to accelerate the deployment of stores in North America.

您對銷售 Natuzzi 產品的第三方零售商沒有太多控制權，但您可以更好地培訓您的員工並使他們保持一致，並且仍然可能影響同店銷售增長。然後，當然，正如您所說，我們知道影響，讓工廠滿負荷生產可以提高毛利率，好嗎？然後，當然，我們知道銷售品牌產品的毛利潤可能在 70% 左右。所以我實際上再次鼓勵你們進攻並加快在北美的商店部署。

And that's pretty much all I have, guys. I'm encouraged by the operating profit, excluding the one-time items. And I'm sure, by the end of the year, we'll be looking at a better economic backdrop. So thank you.

伙計們，這幾乎就是我的全部。我對不包括一次性項目的營業利潤感到鼓舞。我敢肯定，到今年年底，我們將看到一個更好的經濟背景。所以謝謝。

Thank you, Dave. Also, thank you for your continuous dialogue. It's highly supportive for us to set the priority. You, of course, have been invested in the company for enough time to understand our trajectory and our challenges. So your contributions are particularly valuable to us.

謝謝你，戴夫。另外，感謝您的持續對話。這對我們設定優先級非常有幫助。當然，您已經在公司投入了足夠的時間來了解我們的軌跡和挑戰。因此，您的貢獻對我們特別有價值。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. And I turn the floor back over to management for any further or closing comments.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）目前沒有其他問題。我將發言權交還給管理層，徵求任何進一步意見或結束意見。

So thank you for all your attention. As we mentioned before, we keep focusing on our priority. I must say our team is very cohesive. We do [experiment with] headwinds, reading what's happening in the market. We're not alone. We're paying particular focus to our fundamentals cash position to ensure we can go through this turbulent time without jeopardizing our long-term objective.

謝謝大家的關注。正如我們之前提到的，我們一直專注於我們的優先事項。我必須說我們的團隊非常有凝聚力。我們做[試驗]逆風，閱讀市場上正在發生的事情。我們並不孤單。我們特別關注我們的基本面現金狀況，以確保我們能夠度過這個動蕩的時期，而不會危及我們的長期目標。

And I look forward to reconnect with you either on individual conversation if you want to have more color in what has been discussed today or in our next press release for the first quarter of 2023. From my side, thank you. I don't know if Pasquale wants to provide any final word.

如果你想在今天討論的內容中或在我們 2023 年第一季度的下一篇新聞稿中有更多色彩，我期待著在個人對話中與你重新聯繫。在我這邊，謝謝你。我不知道 Pasquale 是否想提供任何最終結論。

Antonio, you did a good job, and Carlo. And I thank you very, very much. (inaudible) The speech was very well done. And thank you very much, our shareholders. And we are all committed to overcome any kind of difficulty as far as we can. Thank you again.

安東尼奧，你做得很好，卡羅。我非常非常感謝你。 （聽不清）演講做得很好。非常感謝您，我們的股東。我們都致力於盡我們所能克服任何困難。再次感謝你。

Thank you again.

再次感謝你。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

That does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

今天的會議到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。感謝您今天的參與。

Thank you.

謝謝。