Natuzzi SpA (NTZ) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) for the third quarter and first nine months 2024 financial results. (Operator Instructions)

（音訊正在播放）2024 年第三季和前九個月的財務表現。（操作員指示）

Joining us on today's call are Mr. Antonio Achille, Natuzzi's Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Pasquale Natuzzi, Founder and Executive Chairman of the Board of Directors; Mr. Carlo Silvestri, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Diego Babbo, Chief Retail Officer; and Piero Direnzo, Investor Relations. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded.

參加今天電話會議的有 Natuzzi 首席執行官 Antonio Achille 先生；創始人兼董事會執行主席 Pasquale Natuzzi 先生；首席財務官卡洛·西爾維斯特里先生；首席零售官 Diego Babbo 先生；以及投資者關係部的 Piero Direnzo。提醒一下，今天的通話正在錄音。

I'd now like to turn the conference call over to Piero. Please go ahead.

現在我想將電話會議交給 Piero。請繼續。

Thank you, Kevin. Good day to everyone, and thank you for joining the Natuzzi's conference call for the 2024 third quarter and first nine months.

謝謝你，凱文。大家好，感謝大家參加 Natuzzi 2024 年第三季和前九個月的電話會議。

After a brief introduction, we will give room for the Q&A session. Before proceeding, we would like to advise our listeners that our discussion today could contain certain statements that constitute forward-looking statements under the United States securities laws. Obviously, actual results might differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements because of risks and uncertainties that can affect our results of operations and financial condition.

簡短介紹之後，我們將進入問答環節。在繼續之前，我們想提醒聽眾，我們今天的討論可能包含某些根據美國證券法構成前瞻性陳述的陳述。顯然，由於風險和不確定性可能會影響我們的經營業績和財務狀況，因此實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的結果有重大差異。

Please refer to our most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the SEC for a complete review of those risks. The company assumes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking matters discussed during this call.

請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新 20-F 表年度報告，以全面了解這些風險。本公司不承擔更新或修改本次電話會議中討論的任何前瞻性事項的義務。

And now, I would like to turn the call over to the company's Chief Executive Officer. Please, Antonio.

現在，我想將電話轉給公司執行長。請你，安東尼奧。

Thank you, Kevin, for opening the meeting, and thank you, Piero, for reminding our rule of [conduit]. Good morning for the one joining from Europe and -- good morning for the one joining from US and good morning -- good afternoon for the ones joining from Europe.

謝謝 Kevin 主持會議，也謝謝 Piero 提醒我們遵守規則[導管]。來自歐洲的與會者早安，來自美國的與會者早安，來自歐洲的與會者下午好。

As usually, I will provide some background to the number that we showed with you. Then I will ask Carlo to provide some more specification on the financial performance. And then I will have Diego Babbo to share with us the progress we are doing on the retail front.

像往常一樣，我將提供一些我們向您展示的數字的背景資訊。然後我會請卡洛提供一些有關財務表現的更多說明。然後我將請 Diego Babbo 與我們分享我們在零售方面取得的進展。

As you have seen, we closed the first nine months of the year with sales in line with the last year, EUR243.9 million. As you know, the sector continues to be facing strong headwinds and most of the companies which are listed in our sector reported negative sales versus the previous year.

如您所見，今年前九個月我們的銷售額與去年持平，為 2.439 億歐元。如您所知，該行業繼續面臨強勁阻力，我們行業中大多數上市公司報告的銷售額與上一年相比均為負值。

When we look at the performance of our branded business, this confirmed to be stronger than the average. In fact, it (sic - see press release, "DOS") has been growing 6.3% versus 2023 and 20.8% from 2029 (sic - see press release, "2019"). This is really the growth of DOS, and the growth of branded sales confirm our direction to become a brand/retail company.

當我們審視品牌業務的表現時，我們發現其表現比平均水準強勁。事實上，它（原文如此 - 參見新聞稿“DOS”）相對於 2023 年增長了 6.3%，相對於 2029 年增長了 20.8%（原文如此 - 參見新聞稿“2019”）。這確實是DOS的成長，品牌銷售的成長也證實了我們成為品牌/零售公司的方向。

When we look at the, let's say, P&L information, it's important that in reading them, we highlight that there's been, from a P&L perspective in the first nine months of the year, EUR4.8 million of one-off severance restructuring cost. In reading the P&L correctly, you need to remember that according to IFRS rule, out of those EUR4.8 million, EUR4.1 million are in the cost of sales.

當我們查看損益資訊時，重要的是，在閱讀時，我們要強調，從今年前九個月的損益角度來看，一次性遣散重組成本為 480 萬歐元。在正確閱讀損益表時，您需要記住，根據 IFRS 規則，在這 480 萬歐元中，有 410 萬歐元屬於銷售成本。

So in reading the margin, you have to remember that they include this one-off restructuring. And EUR0.7 million is accrued in selling and administration expenses because they refer to severance for a quarter people.

因此，在閱讀邊注時，您必須記住它們包括了這次一次性重組。銷售和管理費用中累計 70 萬歐元，因為這涉及四分之一員工的遣散費。

The restructuring is the other side of our story. We focus very much on becoming a brand/retail company. At the same time, we need to deal with the legacy from the time when Natuzzi had a much stronger industrial footprint because it was operating more in the volume business.

重組是我們故事的另一面。我們非常注重成為一家品牌/零售公司。同時，我們需要處理 Natuzzi 擁有更強大的工業影響力（因為當時 Natuzzi 更多地從事批量業務）時期留下的遺留問題。

In the first nine months of the year, we let go 538 people, leading to a total reduction since the beginning of 2021 of 1,110 persons, equivalent to 26% of the total workforce. So in a very ethical manner, and I would say quiet way, we let go one-fourth of our people in a very selective way because this regarded mostly our industrial footprint.

今年前九個月，我們解雇了 538 名員工，自 2021 年初以來共裁員 1,110 人，佔員工總數的 26%。因此，我們以一種非常道德的方式，我想說是安靜的方式，以非常選擇性的方式解雇了四分之一的員工，因為這主要涉及我們的工業足跡。

When we look at the margin, the gross margin for the first nine months has been of 35.8%, which compare to 35.8%, so exactly the same number in 2023. Instead, in 2019 that we still use as a reference, as the sector does, to a time not affected from the pre- and post-COVID dynamics, the margin was of 29%.

從利潤率來看，前九個月的毛利率為 35.8%，與 2023 年的 35.8% 相比，完全相同。相反，我們仍以 2019 年作為參考，正如該行業所做的那樣，當時沒有受到疫情前後動態的影響，利潤率為 29%。

As I mentioned before, EUR4.1 million of severance and impact on cost of sales. So if we look at the margin, excluding the severance cost, the margin for the first nine months of the year would have been of 37.4%, comparing, again, net of severance to 36.3% in 2023 and 30% in 2019.

正如我之前提到的，410 萬歐元的遣散費和對銷售成本的影響。因此，如果我們看一下利潤率，不包括遣散費，今年前九個月的利潤率將為 37.4%，而扣除遣散費後的利潤率在 2023 年為 36.3%，在 2019 年為 30%。

So if we compare apple with apple, even in a context where and we'll comment later, the third quarter has been significantly soft for us. We have 7.4 additional percentage point of margin versus 2019. This has been achieved by improving the quality of sales because the branded business represent by now 93% and also by the efficiency we mentioned before, they still need to fully deploy their benefit.

因此，如果我們將蘋果與蘋果進行比較，即使在我們稍後會評論的背景下，第三季對我們來說也明顯疲軟。與 2019 年相比，我們的利潤率增加了 7.4 個百分點。這是透過提高銷售品質來實現的，因為品牌業務現在佔93%，而且透過我們之前提到的效率，他們仍然需要充分利用他們的利益。

So moving down on the P&L. In the first nine months of 2024, we reported an operating loss of EUR3.8 million (sic - see press release,"EUR3.6 million"), which compare to an operating loss of EUR2.2 million in 2023 and operating loss of EUR19.5 million in 2019. Again, excluding the EUR4.8 million one-off severance, we would have reported an operating profit of EUR1.2 million, which would have compared with an operating loss of EUR0.7 million in 2023 and operating loss of EUR15.1 million -- sorry, EUR16.1 million in 2019. All these numbers, of course, are apple with apple in the sense we are comparing net of the severance cost that happened in that period.

因此損益表下降。2024 年前九個月，我們報告的營業虧損為 380 萬歐元（原文如此 - 請參閱新聞稿「360 萬歐元」），而 2023 年的營業虧損為 220 萬歐元，2019 年的營業虧損為 1950 萬歐元。同樣，不包括 480 萬歐元的一次性遣散費，我們的營業利潤將達到 120 萬歐元，而 2023 年的營業虧損為 70 萬歐元，2019 年的營業虧損為 1,510 萬歐元——抱歉，是 1,610 萬歐元。當然，所有這些數字都是相同的，因為我們比較的是該期間發生的遣散費用淨額。

Moving on the financial cost. The total financial cost have been EUR7.4 million, which is a material difference versus 2023, where there were EUR5.6 million. And they were somehow in line with 2019 where we reported EUR7.7 million.

繼續提高財務成本。總財務成本為 740 萬歐元，與 2023 年的 560 萬歐元相比有顯著差異。這與 2019 年我們報告的 770 萬歐元持平。

This is a consequence of the fact that, of course, we use, let's say, finance to -- for our working capital as a standard way we always have been using it to cover the business in a context where the interest rate have been higher than in the past. Even in 2024, we continue investing in line with our priority. In particular, we invested EUR5.4 million, primarily in our factory and for the DOS in US, where we opened a new store in Denver.

這是因為，當然，我們使用融資作為營運資本的標準方式，在利率高於過去的背景下，我們一直用它來覆蓋業務。即使到了 2024 年，我們仍會繼續按照我們的優先事項進行投資。具體來說，我們投資了 540 萬歐元，主要用於我們的工廠和美國的 DOS，我們在丹佛開設了一家新店。

As I mentioned several times, we are keen to free up resources, divesting from non-strategic asset. We already shared in the last press release that following a very diligent process with our internal committee, we decided as a Board and the CEO to sell to the insider shareholder High Point. We received the first installment of $3.8 million for that sale.

正如我多次提到的，我們渴望釋放資源，剝離非策略性資產。我們已經在上次新聞稿中分享過，經過與內部委員會非常嚴格的審核，我們作為董事會和執行長決定將該公司出售給內部股東 High Point。我們收到了該筆銷售的首期付款 380 萬美元。

I'm happy also to report that we entered and signed a contract for sale on a non-strategic land in Romania, which is nearby to our existing factory but where we had no plan to do any, let's say, use for our operation. The sales that we are looking to complete will be happening in 2025, and we are looking at a value of EUR2.9 million, EUR3.1 million.

我也很高興地報告，我們進入並簽署了羅馬尼亞一塊非戰略性土地的銷售合同，這塊土地靠近我們現有的工廠，但我們沒有計劃在那裡做任何事情，比如說，用於我們的運營。我們希望在 2025 年完成銷售，預計價值為 290 萬歐元至 310 萬歐元。

We already received a first installment as a confirmation by the buyer for also this transaction. And these are two already, I would say, almost completed transaction. We continue looking at a way to sell non-strategic assets, which I mentioned before include also our tannery and other minor assets that we have in our balance sheet.

我們已經收到買家的第一筆分期付款，作為此交易的確認。我想說，這兩筆交易幾乎已經完成。我們繼續尋找出售非策略性資產的方法，我之前提到過，這也包括我們的製革廠和我們資產負債表中的其他小型資產。

Looking at the cash. The cash position is significantly lower than the opening position. We opened with EUR33.6 million. At the end of September, we have EUR17.1 million.

看著現金。現金部位明顯低於期初部位。我們的開業資金為 3,360 萬歐元。截至九月底，我們的資金為1710萬歐元。

Looking at the way and the main dynamics in the cash, the cash used in operation has been EUR5.1 million. Of this, EUR6 million is to reduce workforce. Again, the way in which for IFRS principle, cash used in severance is accounted for is accounted in operating activity.

從現金的流向和主要動態來看，經營活動所用現金為510萬歐元。其中，600萬歐元用於裁員。再一次，根據國際財務報告準則，遣散費所用現金的核算方式是在經營活動中進行核算。

Hence, the difference between the two is positive or EUR0.9 million, which is the cash generated by our operations. So the operation would have been generating cash.

因此，兩者之間的差額為正數，即 90 萬歐元，這是我們營運產生的現金。因此該業務本來可以產生現金。

Cash used in investment activities, as I mentioned, has been EUR5.4 million. Cash used in financing activity, EUR7.1 million, then we have EUR0.4 million, given the change in exchange rate. And then we have a positive contribution of EUR1.5 million, given the different use of bank overdraft.

正如我所提到的，投資活動所使用的現金為 540 萬歐元。融資活動所用現金為 710 萬歐元，考慮到匯率變化，我們有 40 萬歐元。然後，考慮到銀行透支的不同用途，我們獲得了 150 萬歐元的正貢獻。

Cash remain a priority. Of course, in these figures, you don't still see the positive impact of the proceeding High Point, which happened after September, as well the one in Romania. We're also reporting a better deal flow in the last 10 weeks. And hence, we're continuously monitoring the cash with a weekly cadence, both on a 13 weeks and a longer time frame, and we feel no risk on the cash side.

現金仍然是優先考慮的事情。當然，在這些數據中，你仍然看不到9月之後發生的高點以及羅馬尼亞的高點所帶來的正面影響。我們也報告稱，過去 10 週內交易流程有所改善。因此，我們以每週一次的節奏持續監控現金，無論是 13 週還是更長的時間範圍，我們都認為現金方面沒有風險。

The third quarter reflect pretty much the same dynamics in terms of top line in the sense that we are trading exactly in line with 2023, so 0.1% above last year. Again, branded sales are performing better.

第三季的營收情況反映出幾乎相同的動態，即我們的交易情況與 2023 年完全一致，比去年高出 0.1%。再次，品牌銷售表現較好。

What we reported, which we continue monitoring and is already trading up on a better trajectory, has been a decline in gross margin, given some specific element in third quarter that our CFO, Carlo Silvestri, will comment later on in this call. This is the, let's say, specific commentary on figures.

我們報告稱，毛利率有所下降，我們將繼續監測該情況，並且該情況已在更好的軌道上發展，這是由於第三季度的一些具體因素造成的，我們的首席財務官卡洛·西爾維斯特里將在稍後的電話會議上發表評論。這就是，可以說，對數字的具體評論。

Let me give you a bit an update on how myself as a CEO, Pasquale as Executive Chairman, the Board, and our team is dealing with this phase of the market. We're dealing with it, remaining very, very focused on our declared priority, which are not, let's say, in a sense, affected by the contest. The first one is retail.

讓我稍微向您介紹一下我作為執行長、帕斯誇萊作為執行主席、董事會以及我們的團隊如何應對這個市場階段。我們正在處理這個問題，並且非常非常專注於我們宣布的優先事項，從某種意義上說，這些優先事項不會受到競賽的影響。第一個是零售。

Retail continue being an important way for us, both in terms of DOS and FOS, to improve performances and to improve the brand representation. We have done significant effort in this area, which include an evolved retail format for Natuzzi Italia, new IT tools configurator that help to have a better dialogue with final client and architect, very coherent with our mission to define project and not selling individual piece of furniture.

無論是從 DOS 或 FOS 角度來看，零售仍然是我們提高業績、提升品牌形象的重要途徑。我們在這個領域做出了巨大的努力，包括為 Natuzzi Italia 改進零售模式、新的 IT 工具配置器，有助於與最終客戶和建築師進行更好的對話，這與我們定義項目而不是銷售單件家具的使命非常一致。

On this, Diego will provide some interesting highlight showing the pace of rollout of those initiatives, both in our DOS and our franchisee. Our DOS are on a way to become really a leading example for the franchisee of what we mean by modern retail. And hence, we really want to show them at best in terms of brand representation and performances.

對此，Diego 將提供一些有趣的亮點，展示我們在 DOS 和特許經營商中推出這些舉措的速度。我們的 DOS 正在成為特許經營者所理解的現代零售的真正領先典範。因此，我們確實希望在品牌代表性和表現方面向他們展示最好的產品。

During the quarter -- during the first nine months, as I mentioned, we opened Denver. Denver has been an opening which took longer than planned, really because we want to make sure that the infrastructure fully embed the latest concept, the latest retail format. Considering the last four opening in 2023, in Denver, we added five new Natuzzi Italia stores in US, currently with our commitment to increase the presence of Natuzzi Italia in US, which we consider one of the highest priorities going forward.

正如我所提到的，在本季的前九個月，我們開設了丹佛店。丹佛店的開幕時間比計劃的要長，因為我們想確保基礎設施完全融入最新的概念、最新的零售模式。考慮到最後四家店將於 2023 年在丹佛開業，我們在美國新增了五家 Natuzzi Italia 門市，目前我們致力於增加 Natuzzi Italia 在美國的影響力，我們認為這是未來的首要任務之一。

When we talk about improving the quality of our relationship with clients, the other area where we've been focusing on innovation is wholesale. Wholesale remain and will continue being an important channel for us. In some geography like US structurally, it's an important way to reach a customer in several locations.

當我們談到改善與客戶關係的品質時，我們一直專注於創新的另一個領域是批發。批發仍然是並將繼續是我們的重要管道。在某些地區（例如美國），從結構上來說，這是接觸多個地點的客戶的重要方式。

They are very modern and structural partner. And hence, we see this as a strategic channel in the US, but this is also the case in some geography in rest of Asia Pacific. We have really great partner in Thailand, in other geographies in the rest of Asia Pacific.

他們是非常現代和結構化的合作夥伴。因此，我們將其視為美國的戰略管道，但在亞太其他地區也是如此。我們在泰國以及亞太其他地區都有非常好的合作夥伴。

And this is increasingly true also in Europe, where historically, we had a strong presence in the Benelux, but now we are getting back in business in some important geography like France and Germany. This is, in a sense, bringing Natuzzi back better because Natuzzi has always been in the wholesale channel.

在歐洲，這種情況也越來越明顯，從歷史上看，我們在比荷盧三國擁有強大的影響力，但現在我們正在法國和德國等一些重要地區重新開展業務。從某種意義上說，這讓 Natuzzi 更好地回歸，因為 Natuzzi 一直處於批發管道。

But now currently with our -- what we internally call brand/retail religion, which is, in essence, the fact we don't want to compromise the experience of the customer even in wholesale, we invested, and Pasquale Natuzzi has been core to that, to imagine our presence in the wholesale. We came with this Reimagined Gallery format, which is a way to improve performance of our partner to better represent our brand.

但現在，我們內部稱之為品牌/零售信仰，本質上，即使在批發領域，我們也不想損害客戶的體驗，我們進行了投資，而 Pasquale Natuzzi 一直是其中的核心，以想像我們在批發領域的存在。我們採用了這種重新構想的畫廊格式，這是一種提高合作夥伴績效以更好地展示我們品牌的方式。

We also learned from our experience, and this format is very modular and very light in terms of investment because clearly, a multi-brand partner need to carefully look at the return on investment. Today later, we will focus with Diego in the retail development. In our next analyst call, we'll invite our head for the wholesale business to do an equivalent presentation for the gallery business.

我們也從經驗中吸取了教訓，這種形式非常模組化，投資非常輕，因為顯然，多品牌合作夥伴需要仔細考慮投資回報。今天稍後，我們將與 Diego 一起關注零售發展。在下一次分析師電話會議中，我們將邀請批發業務負責人就畫廊業務做一個類似的演示。

Moving to another new area where we want to -- and we are recording very exciting advancement, we want to grow trading contract. We issued a specific press release regarding the Natuzzi Harmony House -- Residence, which has been opened in terms of sales and unveiled in Dubai on November 12.

轉向我們想要的另一個新領域——我們正在記錄非常令人興奮的進步，我們希望增加貿易合約。我們發布了有關 Natuzzi Harmony House -- Residence 的專門新聞稿，該項目已開始銷售，並於 11 月 12 日在杜拜揭幕。

I'm very proud of this achievement. And I'm sure later, Pasquale will also share his view because he was the guest of honor in that event because it certifies -- it testifies several elements. First, it talks about the strength of our brand because the Natuzzi Harmony Residence really use the brand of Natuzzi as a way to add value to a real estate development, which has been one of the most iconic area of Dubai.

我為這項成就感到非常自豪。我相信帕斯誇萊稍後也會分享他的觀點，因為他是那次活動的貴賓，因為這證明了幾個因素。首先，這說明了我們品牌的實力，因為 Natuzzi Harmony Residence 真正利用了 Natuzzi 品牌來增加房地產開發的價值，而該開發案一直是杜拜最具代表性的地區之一。

Second, because compared to other branded development, Natuzzi didn't, let's say, only license its name. But it was key in developing the outside architecture and internal decoration, which fully represent the brand DNA. And really, I would say, stands out from the crowd because this building often seems to be each similar to the other. This one brings a piece of our Mediterranean store in Dubai and is receiving terrific feedback.

其次，與其他品牌開發相比，Natuzzi 並沒有僅僅授權其名稱。但它在開發外部建築和內部裝飾方面發揮了關鍵作用，這些都充分體現了品牌的 DNA。而實際上，我想說，它之所以脫穎而出，是因為這棟建築看起來常常與其他建築相似。這是我們位於杜拜的地中海商店的一部分，並獲得了極好的回饋。

The third element, which is very important in the situation, Natuzzi not only provide the full assortment, which is managed directly by us, which clearly include upholstery but also dining and bathroom, but also acted as an orchestrator for the remaining furniture, which include fixed furniture, cabinet and kitchens. As you know because we discussed previously, this is a strategic area we believe we have a huge opportunity.

第三個要素在這種情況下非常重要，Natuzzi 不僅提供由我們直接管理的全系列產品，其中顯然包括室內裝潢、餐廳和浴室，而且還充當其餘家具的協調者，其中包括固定家具、櫥櫃和廚房。正如您所知，正如我們之前討論過的，這是一個戰略領域，我們相信我們擁有巨大的機會。

And for this reason, we established a new division which has clear targets, but will act in accordance with the rest of the company, leveraging the assets of the rest of the company. So we'll be freedom within a frame in the sense that we share all our, let's say, core business function, but we'll have the freedom and the responsibility to add opportunity.

因此，我們成立了一個新部門，該部門有明確的目標，但將按照公司其他部門的指示行事，並利用公司其他部門的資產。因此，我們將在一定框架內享有自由，即我們共享所有核心業務功能，但我們也將擁有增加機會的自由和責任。

On the restructuring we already tapped on before, we mentioned before is a key area of focus. In these last three months, it happens that we closed, as part of our Asian strategy, the Shanghai plant in China. This plant has been serving Natuzzi for more than 15 years.

關於我們之前已經提到的重組，我們之前提到這是一個重點關注的領域。在過去的三個月裡，作為我們亞洲策略的一部分，我們關閉了中國上海的工廠。該工廠已為 Natuzzi 服務超過 15 年。

Shanghai 15 years ago was a very different place than it is today. It was no longer convenient to have a plant in Shanghai, so we moved our production in a city, Quanjiao, which is three hours south of Shanghai, where we have an efficiency improvement of 30%. This plant will progressively focus to serve our domestic market, where, as you know, we operate in partnership with KUKA to a JV where Natuzzi owns the 49%.

15年前的上海與今天截然不同。在上海設立工廠已不再方便，因此我們將生產轉移到了距離上海以南三小時車程的城市全椒，在那裡我們的效率提高了 30%。該工廠將逐步專注於服務我們的國內市場，如您所知，我們與 KUKA 合作成立合資企業，Natuzzi 擁有 49% 的股份。

On the divestment of non-strategic assets, I already commented. This is another, let's say, avenue we are happy the way we are closing the year because two of the assets, which has been for a long time under our radar screen because we decided not to own them any longer, they eventually found a new owner. And this will free up cash from our balance sheet.

關於非策略性資產的剝離，我已經做出評論。這是另一種方式，可以說，我們對結束這一年的方式感到高興，因為其中兩項資產，由於我們決定不再擁有它們，長期以來一直處於我們的關注之下，它們最終找到了新的主人。這將釋放我們資產負債表中的現金。

So all in all, it's really a story that continues in a very coherent way. We feel very confident of what we're building and what we're achieving. The testament we are receiving are multiple, so it's not something which is derived just from our judgment.

總而言之，這確實是一個以非常連貫的方式延續的故事。我們對我們正在建立的一切以及我們所取得的成就充滿信心。我們收到的遺囑是多重的，所以它不是僅僅來自我們的判斷。

I talked about Dubai. We continue receiving requests for opening new store. We are just projecting a new store in Wuxi, which is an important city in China. It will be a 650-meter store, which will be entirely projected designed by us. And this is one of the many examples where clients seek us for investing in our stores, even in a situation where, as in China, not many brands are investing in new retail.

我談到了杜拜。我們不斷收到開設新店的請求。我們正計劃在中國重要城市無錫開設新店。這將是一座650公尺長的商店，將完全由我們設計。這只是眾多顧客尋求我們投資門市的例子之一，即使在中國，投資新零售的品牌也不多。

Having said that, I will pass over to Diego, who will share some progresses on the retail front before -- and then Carlo will provide some commentary on the third quarter and nine months gross margin evolution. Please, Diego.

話雖如此，我將把話題轉到 Diego，他將分享零售方面的一些進展——然後 Carlo 將對第三季和九個月的毛利率變化發表一些評論。請你，迭戈。

Thank you, Antonio. Good morning, good afternoon to all the attendees. As Antonio was mentioning, as the corporate retail division at Natuzzi, we have spent the last months addressing key goals. We are focused on completing our guidelines, perfecting our model to elevate the customer experience and most importantly, ensuring a high level of adoption of these guidelines.

謝謝你，安東尼奧。各位參會人員早安、下午好。正如安東尼奧所提到的，作為 Natuzzi 的企業零售部門，我們花了幾個月的時間來實現關鍵目標。我們專注於完善我們的指南，完善我們的模型以提升客戶體驗，最重要的是確保這些指南得到高度採用。

Our efforts have also included announcing the performances of DOS stores through the implementation of the new store concept, as Antonio was mentioning. Let me share with you no more than three slides that could help me to describe better the scenario.

正如安東尼奧所提到的，我們的努力還包括透過實施新的商店概念來宣布 DOS 商店的表現。讓我與你們分享不超過三張幻燈片，它們可以幫助我更好地描述這種情況。

As you can see on the left side, some image of the new store concept for Natuzzi Italia, which has been really adopted in 9 out of 39 directly operated stores around the world and was also committed to invest for future upgrade on the remaining stores.

正如您在左側看到的，這是 Natuzzi Italia 新店鋪概念的一些圖片，該概念已在全球 39 家直營店中的 9 家得到實際採用，並且還承諾對剩餘店舖的未來升級進行投資。

This has been done with the goal of creating a more engaging shopping environment to retain customers through a more environmentally sustainable and less expensive store concept, which is also aimed to highlight our brand heritage and route by reminding through materials and colors, our Apulian landscape where the company is based and ultimately to boost sales and revenues through layouts that encourage higher spending.

這樣做的目的是創造一個更具吸引力的購物環境，透過更環保、更便宜的商店概念留住客戶，同時也旨在透過材料和顏色提醒我們公司所在地普利亞的風景，突出我們的品牌傳統和路線，並最終透過鼓勵更高消費的佈局來提高銷售和收入。

On the left, we have done -- you see the other image about Divani&Divani in Italy, where we have done -- we have been through the same journey of upgrading 8 out of 10 directly operated stores in order to develop a cohesive and distinctive store design that not only reflect the brand values but also set us apart from competitors, considering that we are facing fierce competition in Italy on that.

在左邊，我們已經完成了——您可以看到另一張關於意大利 Divani&Divani 的圖片，我們在那裡完成了——我們經歷了同樣的過程，對 10 家直營店中的 8 家進行了升級，以開發出一種有凝聚力和獨特的店面設計，這不僅反映了品牌價值，而且讓我們有別於競爭對手，考慮到我們在意大利面臨著激烈的競爭。

And also, we adopted a set of tools embedded in this concept aimed to increase the conversion rate, talking about POP materials, in-store communications, watches and so on. But it's not only a matter of in-store concept, it's also digital tools.

另外，我們也採用了一套嵌入此概念的工具來提高轉換率，包括POP材料、店內溝通、手錶等。但這不僅是店內概念的問題，也是數位工具的問題。

We have invested considerable resources as a company in order to define and implement digital tools through all our network. As you can see on the right, the status is that we have achieved the full completion of all these installation through all our network of directly operated stores.

作為一家公司，我們投入了大量資源來透過我們的整個網路定義和實施數位工具。正如您在右側看到的，目前的情況是，我們已經透過所有直營店網路全面完成了所有這些安裝。

We are talking about all the systems that are helping us to utilize real-time traffic measurement to make informed decision and improve store layout staffing. We are leveraging on a dashboard like Power BI to track key metrics, identify trends and implement strategic adjustment.

我們正在討論所有幫助我們利用即時流量測量來做出明智決策並改善商店佈局人員配備的系統。我們利用 Power BI 之類的儀表板來追蹤關鍵指標、識別趨勢並實施策略調整。

We are creating also pleasant shopping atmosphere with in-store music tailored to the branded entity. And recently, we have also launched a state-of-the-art room configurator to empower customers to personalize their purchases and leading to increased satisfaction and sales.

我們也透過根據品牌實體訂製的店內音樂營造愉快的購物氛圍。最近，我們還推出了最先進的房間配置器，使客戶能夠個人化購買，從而提高滿意度和銷售。

We think that our initiatives have yielded significant progress in establishing a robust framework. However, it's imperative to bring our FOS stores to the same level of excellence as our DOS stores in terms of tool adoption and guideline adherence.

我們認為，我們的舉措在建立強有力的框架方面取得了重大進展。然而，在工具採用和指南遵守方面，我們必須使 FOS 商店達到與 DOS 商店相同的卓越水平。

To achieve these, we are working on integrating the FOS stores into our system by implementing all the tools that we have developed. In this last slide, I'm just mentioning some of them. As you can see, starting from January '23 up to the end of last quarter, there were stores that were not completely connected to our system.

為了實現這些目標，我們正在致力於透過實施我們開發的所有工具將 FOS 商店整合到我們的系統中。在最後一張幻燈片中，我只提到其中的一些。如您所見，從 23 年 1 月到上個季度末，有些商店尚未完全連接到我們的系統。

And now just to mention a couple of these tools, you can see that 283 stores are now fully connected through the order management system, which means that we can measure much better than before their performances. And you can see that more than 100 stores on top of our DOS have now a traffic counter installed, which means that we can measure the traffic.

現在只提及其中的幾個工具，您可以看到現在有 283 家商店透過訂單管理系統完全連接，這意味著我們可以比以前更好地衡量他們的表現。您可以看到，我們 DOS 上的 100 多家商店現在都安裝了客流量計數器，這意味著我們可以測量客流量。

By connecting with our system, we ensure the sharing of more informed business choices. And these initiatives are designed to foster a cohesive, high-performing retail environment that aligns our partners and enhance overall operational efficiency. Our commitment to these objectives underscores our dedication to providing exemplary service and maintaining the highest standards.

透過連接我們的系統，我們確保分享更明智的商業選擇。這些措施旨在創造一個有凝聚力、高效的零售環境，使我們的合作夥伴協調一致，提高整體營運效率。我們對這些目標的承諾凸顯了我們致力於提供模範服務和維持最高標準的決心。

More available to answer to your question, if any, in the future.

將來，如果有任何問題，我們將能夠更好地回答您的問題。

Thank you, Diego. This, again, is intended to go beyond what is the, let's say, standard package, which is provided in a press release because we really want you to get to know our mid management. Diego has been a pillar of the retail transformation we are implementing.

謝謝你，迭戈。再次強調，這旨在超越新聞稿中提供的標準方案，因為我們確實希望您了解我們的中階管理人員。迭戈一直是我們正在實施的零售轉型的支柱。

He oversees now the full retail business, which includes for us, DOS and franchisee. As we mentioned, franchisee for us, our DOS managed by third party in the sense that we really want the customer to fully have a consistent experience.

他現在負責整個零售業務，其中包括我們的 DOS 和特許經營商。正如我們所提到的，對我們來說，作為特許經營商，我們的 DOS 由第三方管理，因為我們確實希望客戶能夠獲得完全一致的體驗。

And we also want to help our partner with all the knowledge we have by managing 680 stores. So really want to integrate them. I will pass over now to Carlo, which will provide some commentary on the third quarter and nine-month evolution of gross margin and profitability that, as you know, remain for us an absolute priority, which we will continue focusing on.

我們也希望利用我們管理 680 家商店所掌握的所有知識來幫助我們的合作夥伴。所以真的很想將它們整合起來。現在我將把時間交給卡洛，他將對第三季度和前九個月的毛利率和盈利能力的變化提供一些評論，正如你所知，這對我們來說仍然是絕對優先事項，我們將繼續關注這一點。

So he will explain some of the dynamic reported more recently. Please, Carlo. Carlo, you're on mute.

所以他會對最近報道的一些動態來解釋。請吧，卡洛。卡洛，你已靜音。

Can you hear me? Yes. Sorry. So I will give you some insights about the third quarter, starting from our sales, as Antonio did mention, was the overall third quarter was affected by a weak business trend during the summer period. But overall, our sales were [0.5] over the third quarter 2023.

你聽得到我嗎？是的。對不起。因此，我將從我們的銷售開始，向您提供一些有關第三季度的見解，正如安東尼奧所提到的，整個第三季度受到夏季疲軟商業趨勢的影響。但總體而言，我們的銷售額在 2023 年第三季成長了 [0.5]。

And with the branded sales, that slightly increased in proportion versus 2023. What did change was the mix among our brands with Natuzzi Editions and Divani&Divani that compensated the decrease of Natuzzi Italia. This, of course, had also an impact on our capability for absorption of fixed costs. Now let's talk about the gross profit of 2024 with the major impact.

而隨著品牌銷售額的增加，這一比例與 2023 年相比略有增加。真正改變的是我們的品牌組合，Natuzzi Editions 和 Divani&Divani 彌補了 Natuzzi Italia 的下降。當然，這也對我們吸收固定成本的能力產生了影響。現在讓我們來談談對2024年毛利影響較大的事。

So first of all, I would like to discuss in detail about the labor cost. If we talk about absolute number, we see an increase of EUR1.8 million compared to the same period of last year. But as already anticipated, the exit of 2,076 people in China due to the closure of our plant in Shanghai and the move to Quanjiao had an impact direct on our cost of labor because we did pay EUR2.9 million in severances. This, of course, impacted directly in our cost of goods sold.

所以首先我想詳細討論一下勞動成本。如果從絕對數字來看，與去年同期相比增加了 180 萬歐元。但正如已經預料到的那樣，由於我們關閉了上海的工廠並搬遷到全椒，導致中國有 2,076 名員工離職，這直接影響了我們的勞動力成本，因為我們支付了 290 萬歐元的遣散費。當然，這直接影響了我們的銷售成本。

Then what happened in terms of trend, we did also some inventory exit to clear some stock. And in terms of decrease of stock, since the beginning of the year, we had a positive impact on our cash of EUR4.8 million. And on top of that, of course, the moving of the production of -- from Shanghai to Quanjiao had some impact in terms of extra costs during the period.

那麼就趨勢而言發生了什麼，我們也進行了一些庫存清理以清理一些庫存。就庫存減少而言，自今年年初以來，我們的現金產生了 480 萬歐元的正面影響。當然，除此之外，將生產從上海轉移到全椒也對此期間的額外成本產生了一些影響。

But if we exclude, as I've mentioned before, the impact of the severances also for the period, the gross margin would have been 35.7% versus the 31.8% reported that would have compared to the 35.5% of last year, but most importantly, versus the 30.5% reported in the third quarter 2019 with an increase on improvement of more than 5 percentage points.

但是，如果我們排除遣散費的影響（正如我之前提到的），那麼毛利率將達到 35.7%，而報告的毛利率為 31.8%，與去年同期的 35.5% 相比有所提高，但最重要的是，與 2019 年第三季報告的 30.5% 相比，提高了 5 個百分點以上。

Now talking about the other factor that did impact on our P&L to have a more coherent direction of our numbers, I will go to the selling expenses to explain that what we see in our report is a decrease from EUR21.6 million versus EUR20.3 million this year.

現在談論對我們的損益表產生影響的另一個因素，為了使我們的數字方向更加一致，我將從銷售費用來解釋，我們在報告中看到的是，今年的銷售費用從 2160 萬歐元減少到了 2030 萬歐元。

To better understand our numbers, we need to also consider that this decrease of selling expenses was also due to the portfolio management that we continue to do in our DOS. So in this period, we did close two stores, one in Spain, one in Switzerland. But at the same time, we have the impact of the new opening of last year, the four stores in US plus this year, the store in Denver.

為了更好地理解我們的數字，我們還需要考慮銷售費用的減少也是由於我們在 DOS 中繼續進行的投資組合管理。因此在此期間，我們確實關閉了兩家商店，一家在西班牙，一家在瑞士。但同時，我們也受到了去年在美國新開的四家店以及今年在丹佛新開的店的影響。

So we do have less cost but an improved portfolio. While on the administrative expenses, the cost of EUR8.5 million does include EUR0.5 million cost of redundancy package that we provide to decrease our workforce in, as I mentioned before, Spain and Switzerland.

因此，我們的成本確實降低了，但產品組合卻得到了改善。而在管理費用方面，850 萬歐元的成本確實包括 50 萬歐元的裁員費用，這筆費用是我們為減少西班牙和瑞士的員工而提供的。

So in this case, if we did exclude that, we will have a saving in this. All of this to say that if we exclude all these factor in our numbers, the operating profit would have been a loss of EUR400,000 during the period, that would have compared to a loss of EUR1.1 million in the third quarter 2023.

因此在這種情況下，如果我們確實排除這一點，我們就會節省一筆錢。綜上所述，如果我們將所有這些因素排除在數字之外，那麼該期間的營業利潤將虧損 40 萬歐元，而 2023 年第三季的虧損為 110 萬歐元。

Talking about the finance costs, adding just slightly comment on what Antonio did mention in his previous comments. The net exchange rate, I would like to underline, is only related to trade receivable and payable is not related to any change of our policy in hedging from the risk of exchange rates, so just due to the fluctuation of the exchange rate.

談到財務成本，我對安東尼奧在之前的評論中提到的內容做了一些評論。我想強調的是，淨匯率僅與貿易應收款和應付款項有關，與我們規避匯率風險的政策變化無關，因此僅是由於匯率波動造成的。

This is my comments on the third quarter. Now I will leave the floor for questions.

這是我對第三季的評論。現在我將回答大家的提問。

(Operator Instructions) Kirby Newburger.

（操作員指示）Kirby Newburger。

Yes. I don't know if you can speculate on this but there is talk that the next presidential administration in the United States is going to implement some tariffs. Do you all have a feel for how that might affect you?

是的。我不知道您是否可以對此進行推測，但有傳言稱美國下一屆總統政府將實施一些關稅。你們是否感覺到這會對你們產生什麼影響？

Thank you for the question, I will take it. Of course, we have no way to predict what decision the new administration will take. What I can assure you that we are definitely preparing ourselves for dealing in an optimal way with potential evolution of logistic and tariff.

謝謝你的提問，我會回答。當然，我們無法預測新政府會做出什麼決定。我可以向你們保證，我們一定會做好準備，以最佳方式應對物流和關稅的潛在變化。

Let me elaborate because I believe this is an intrinsic plus that Natuzzi has because it doesn't rely on just one source of production but is establishing multiple area really to navigate these circumstance. For instance, we are progressively using Vietnam.

讓我詳細說明一下，因為我相信這是 Natuzzi 的一個內在優勢，因為它不依賴單一的生產來源，而是建立多個區域來真正應對這些情況。例如，我們正在逐步利用越南。

And we have a plan starting for first quarter 2025 to open in Vietnam really to make sure this is another platform where we can, let's say, serve geography like US as we're already doing for large clients. As you know, Vietnam doesn't have any tariff compared to China, to US. Producing out of China in terms of net impact of tariff will have a disadvantage with the current duty of 14 percentage points.

我們計劃從 2025 年第一季開始在越南開設分公司，以確保這是另一個平台，我們可以在這個平台上為美國等地區提供服務，就像我們已經為大客戶提供服務一樣。如您所知，與中國和美國相比，越南沒有任何關稅。就關稅淨影響而言，在中國以外生產將處於劣勢，因為目前的關稅為14個百分點。

We have to remind that we also have Italy as a production where we might consider if tariff might become an issue to serve certain geography like North America. So I cannot say where eventually the administration will head to.

我們必須提醒，我們也有義大利的生產基地，我們可能會考慮關稅是否會成為服務北美等特定地區的問題。所以我無法預測政府最終會走向何方。

What I can say is that Natuzzi, given its footprint, is equipped to deal as we did in the past, for instance, where there's been a spike in logistics to hedge this negative phenomenon by moving production to one plant -- from one plant to the other.

我可以說的是，考慮到 Natuzzi 的規模，它有能力像過去一樣應對這種情況，例如，當物流出現激增時，我們會透過將生產轉移到一個工廠（從一個工廠轉移到另一個工廠）來對沖這種負面現象。

David Kanen.

大衛卡南。

I'm afraid, Dave, you're on mute, Dave. (technical difficulty)

恐怕戴夫，你處於靜音狀態，戴夫。（技術難度）

(Operator Instructions) David, please go ahead, sir.

（操作員指示）大衛，先生，請繼續。

Are you guys able to hear me?

你們聽得到我說話嗎？

Now yes, please.

現在可以了，請。

Okay. Well, first of all, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I have a few and then I'll go back into queue to allow other people to post questions. The first one, Antonio, is you referenced order flow improvements in Q4 subsequent to quarter end Q3.

好的。嗯，首先感謝您抽空回答我的問題。我有幾個問題，然後我會回到隊列中以允許其他人發布問題。第一個問題，安東尼奧，您提到了繼第三季末之後第四季度的訂單流改善。

Could you just comment on that a little bit? We heard the same thing from RH in their call yesterday. So if you could just give us a little color on what you're seeing.

您能對此發表一點評論嗎？我們在昨天的電話會議中從 RH 那裡聽到了同樣的事情。所以，如果您能給我們稍微描述一下您所看到的情況的話。

Sure. So since week, let's say, 40, which means the last 10 weeks, we are reporting an interesting positive trend versus the previous weeks. I will not overspeculate on that as we didn't do in our press release because the situation outside still remain, let's say, at least volatile, not to say, fragile.

當然。因此，從第 40 週開始，也就是過去 10 週，我們報告了與前幾週相比有趣的正面趨勢。我不會對此進行過度猜測，因為我們在新聞稿中沒有這樣做，因為外面的局勢仍然至少可以說是動蕩的，更不用說脆弱的。

But as a matter of fact, last 10 weeks systematically reported a better performance than the previous one. As you know, we're still hoping we discuss about potential evolution of the new administration in terms of tariff. We're still waiting and hoping that there will be specific measure more referred to the real estate of furniture industry because clearly, one of the trigger points that we are still hoping to see in 2025 is a steep inversion in the interest rate.

但事實上，過去 10 週的表現總體上比前一周要好。如您所知，我們仍然希望討論新政府在關稅方面的潛在變化。我們仍在等待並希望推出更多針對家具房地產的具體措施，因為顯然，我們仍希望在 2025 年看到的觸發點之一是利率的急劇反轉。

Talking about China. China is implementing a stimulus package, which has some specific facility also for the furniture. And in fact, in China as well, we are reporting, in the last 10 weeks, a better inflow of orders. So Dave, I will not overspeculate, but I thought it was important as we share very transparently the headwinds to also share this initial green spur that we are witnessing.

談論中國。中國正在實施經濟刺激計劃，其中也為家具業提供了一些具體的便利。事實上，我們報告稱，過去 10 週，中國的訂單流入量也有所增加。所以戴夫，我不會過度猜測，但我認為，當我們非常透明地分享逆風時，分享我們正在見證的最初的綠色支線也很重要。

Okay. The second question is you called out specifically the move from Shanghai south and that there was an approximate 30% savings. Can you just remind us of the time frame when was that done and when we will see the impact of that in the P&L?

好的。第二個問題是，您特別提到了從上海南部搬遷，節省了約 30% 的費用。您能否提醒我們一下完成的時間範圍以及我們何時會在損益表中看到其影響？

So the official closing of Shanghai was end of September, and that's the reason why we're discussing it during this conversation on the first nine months, which means that we closed our factory. We let go of the workers.

上海工廠的正式關閉時間是九月底，這就是我們在前九個月的談話中討論這個問題的原因，這意味著我們關閉了工廠。我們解雇了工人。

The Quanjiao factory was already operational with few lines. Now it's ramping up capacity. The figures I was referring in terms of potential improvement, normally, we see that a factory takes 12 months to reach full efficiency, so we should see that materializing during 2025.

全椒工廠已投入運營，但只有幾條生產線。現在它正在提高產能。我所指的關於潛在改進的數字是，通常情況下，我們看到一家工廠需要 12 個月才能達到完全效率，所以我們應該在 2025 年看到這一目標實現。

Okay. Do you expect -- so what is the impact that you expect on production from China in terms of cost of goods or gross margin? How many -- if you could quantify for us, what is the improvement that you expect year over year, specifically on that geography to gross margin? Are we talking 100 basis points, 200, 300? If you can give us a little more color, I'd appreciate that.

好的。您預計—那麼，就商品成本或毛利率而言，這對中國生產有何影響？如果您可以量化的話，您預計該地區的毛利率將比去年同期增加多少？我們談的是 100 個基點、200 個基點還是 300 個基點？如果您能給我們更多細節，我將非常感激。

Yes. Yes, yes. So I do understand that you want to model the different variables. I cannot be extremely precise because when you look to the transformation cost, it's not only the cost of labor and the rents that, of course, are more in our control but it's also the cost of material and other factors. But I believe given the latest estimate we have done, we're talking about between 200 and 300 basis points, 2%, 3% improvement.

是的。是的，是的。所以我確實明白你想要對不同的變數進行建模。我無法非常精確，因為當你考慮轉型成本時，我們不僅要考慮勞動成本和租金（當然，這些是我們更能控制的），還要考慮材料成本和其他因素。但我相信，根據我們最新的估計，我們談論的是 200 到 300 個基點，即 2%、3% 的改善。

Okay. I appreciate that. And then you spoke again about this new commercial division, in particular, Dubai. Could you extrapolate for us over the next year or two, what do you think the size of that opportunity is? This seems like it's potentially incremental to us. So if you could quantify on an annual basis what your internal goals are for this division?

好的。我很感激。然後您再次談到了這個新的商業部門，特別是杜拜。您能否為我們推斷一下，在未來一兩年內，您認為這個機會的規模有多大？對我們來說這似乎具有潛在的增量作用。那麼，您是否可以按年度量化該部門的內部目標是什麼？

So here, I will directionally and transparently tell what we are doing. As you know, we don't provide specific guidance going forward on the autonomous part of our business. So the division has been very recently established. It's really reporting encouraging wins, and I will be maybe asked later to our President to share what has been his experience of being in Dubai in November.

所以在這裡我會有方向性、透明性地講述我們正在做的事情。如您所知，我們不會針對業務的自主部分提供具體的指導。該部門剛成立。這確實是令人鼓舞的勝利，稍後我可能會被要求與我們的總統分享他 11 月在杜拜的經歷。

We have definitely a bold ambition. We have developed a five-year business plan for the division, which is looking to, as you said, build incremental business on the contract. The trade, which is another important business, which would be developed by this division, this is already -- will be accounted in the -- there is a bit of rebound. If you -- Kevin, why, I reply? Can you unmute?

我們確實有一個大膽的抱負。我們為該部門製定了五年業務計劃，正如您所說，該計劃旨在根據合約拓展增量業務。貿易是該部門將要開發的另一項重要業務，這已經——將會被計入——出現了一些反彈。如果你──凱文，為什麼，我回答？你能取消靜音嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Sorry, just to make sure the answer is clear to you to the other step by step. So we have established a new division. The business will be incremental, absolutely yes. We're looking at a different channel because here, we are serving not final customer or architect, a designer, but we're doing material partnership with real estate developer, with hotel, potential with lender from airport, hospital.

抱歉，只是為了確保答案一步一步地對您清晰。因此我們成立了一個新的部門。業務將會逐步成長，絕對是的。我們正在尋找不同的管道，因為在這裡，我們服務的不是最終客戶或建築師、設計師，而是與房地產開發商、飯店、機場、醫院的潛在貸款人建立實質合作夥伴關係。

So the space is really huge. We believe that we're bringing really differential capability because we don't only bring the brand, we don't only bring a superior product, but I'm really amazed by the transformation to the architectural project that our team of designer has been able to achieve.

所以這個空間真的很大。我們相信，我們帶來的是真正差異化的能力，因為我們不僅帶來了品牌，我們不僅帶來了優質的產品，而且我對我們的設計師團隊能夠實現的建築項目的轉變感到非常驚訝。

So I'm very, very optimistic and confident. We developed a five-year business plan, including top line cost to support this division. I will not be able to disclose a number because we don't give, let's say, guidance. But at the end of the period is supposed to support quite significantly our business with incremental business.

所以我非常非常樂觀和自信。我們制定了一項五年商業計劃，其中包括支持該部門的最高成本。我無法透露具體數字，因為我們不提供指導。但在該期間結束時，增量業務應該會對我們的業務提供相當大的支援。

If we look at the other company that started this business, Italian company before us, I will name some but just illustratively, like Molteni and others, they are doing a significant proportion of their business in (inaudible) business .

如果我們看看其他開展這項業務的公司，在我們之前開展這項業務的意大利公司，我會列舉一些，但僅舉例說明，例如 Molteni 和其他公司，他們的很大一部分業務是（聽不清楚）業務。

For us, it will not be the same percentage because here, we are talking in the case of Molteni, with 30%, 40%, 50% of total business, almost the majority because we have 680 stores. So the contract will be an overdrive on top. But I'm optimistic we're really equipping this division to do a material contribution on our revenue.

對我們來說，這個百分比不會是相同的，因為在這裡，我們討論的是 Molteni 的情況，佔總業務的 30%、40%、50%，幾乎佔大多數，因為我們有 680 家商店。因此，合約將會是最重要的。但我樂觀地認為，我們確實正在為這個部門做好準備，以便為我們的收入做出實質的貢獻。

Okay. So material means at least an eight-figure number, which would be --

好的。所以材料意味著至少八位數，也就是--

It's measured in not EUR1 million but it's measured in the next unit, in EUR20 million ballpark measure at steady state, okay?

它不是以 100 萬歐元來衡量，而是以以下一個單位來衡量，即穩定狀態下的 2000 萬歐元左右的衡量標準，好嗎？

Okay. Excellent, that's exciting. And then just one more question before I go --

好的。太棒了，太令人興奮了。在我離開之前，我還有一個問題--

Sorry, the other element I want to mention, one of the parameters we set ourselves is that this division will be margin accretive. So given the bar of what we're doing, the bar for division is to be margin accretive also because we have a direct channel of the leadership with the developers.

抱歉，我想提及的另一個因素，我們自己設定的參數之一是該部門將增加利潤。因此，考慮到我們所做工作的標準，部門的標準也是增加利潤，因為我們與開發商之間有直接的領導管道。

So there's no intermediary. There is no real estate to be paid for those. So the target for this division is to be margin accretive versus the average.

所以沒有中間人。無需支付任何房地產費用。因此，該部門的目標是提高利潤率，而不是平均值。

Okay. Thank you for sharing that. That's helpful and exciting. And then last question before I go back into queue. You called out in the prepared remarks that without the restructuring charge on an operating basis, we were profitable, I believe, EUR1.3 million on EUR75 million in revenue, which is incredible.

好的。感謝您的分享。這很有幫助，也很令人興奮。在我回到隊列之前，這是最後一個問題。您在準備好的發言中指出，如果不計入營運基礎上的重組費用，我們的獲利是 130 萬歐元，營收為 7,500 萬歐元，這真是令人難以置信。

And I appreciate you guys, your hard work in terms of rightsizing the business and taking costs out. So on a go-forward basis, is it safe to say with the cost savings that we have that above EUR75 million, EUR80 million, EUR85 million, et cetera, that on an operating basis, we should sustain profitability?

我感謝你們在調整業務規模和降低成本方面的努力。那麼從未來來看，我們是否可以有把握地說，憑藉超過 7500 萬歐元、8000 萬歐元、8500 萬歐元等的成本節約，在運營基礎上，我們應該保持盈利能力？

I mean you have done the math correctly. We significantly lowered our breakeven. We used to be north of EUR100 million. When we started, the breakeven was in the range of EUR100 million, EUR110 million per quarter. Now the breakeven is ballpark where you correctly mentioned.

我的意思是你的計算是正確的。我們大幅降低了損益平衡點。我們的資產曾經超過 1 億歐元。當我們開始時，盈虧平衡點在每季 1 億歐元至 1.1 億歐元之間。現在損益平衡點就在您正確提到的範圍內。

So of course, once we pay the fixed cost, the incremental business will have a much higher EBITDA and cash conversion. So everything which is on top of the figure you mentioned, you should consider with higher contribution in terms of cash generation and marginality. So I don't want to overpromise anything.

因此，當然，一旦我們支付固定成本，增量業務將擁有更高的 EBITDA 和現金轉換率。因此，您提到的數字之上的所有內容，您都應該考慮在現金產生和邊際效益方面做出更高的貢獻。所以我不想過度承諾任何事。

I'll just say if we achieve, as I'm confident at one point we will achieve the revenue per quarter that we were using together and that our retail and (inaudible) division will deserve the conversion to cash would be very noticeable.

我只想說，如果我們實現了，因為我有信心，在某一時刻，我們將實現我們共同使用的每季度收入，並且我們的零售和（聽不清）部門將值得轉換為現金，這將是非常明顯的。

Okay. Well, we look forward to you getting back to EUR100 million a quarter because it looks like the profitability will be profound. So good luck to you, guys. Have a wonderful holiday season, and I look forward to our next conversation.

好的。好吧，我們期待您每季的收入能回到 1 億歐元，因為看起來獲利能力將會非常可觀。祝你們好運，夥計們。祝您節日愉快，期待我們的下一次對話。

Thank you so much, Dave. Kevin, any other question in the queue?

非常感謝，戴夫。凱文，還有其他問題嗎？

There are no further questions at this time. (Operator Instructions) It appears there are no further questions at this time.

目前沒有其他問題。（操作員指示）目前似乎沒有其他問題。

Thank you, everyone. I will leave the final remark to Pasquale, which is a fantastic partner in this venture because he really is supporting the integrity of the business or the brand while really supporting us to evolve it. So I will leave the final remark to Pasquale.

謝謝大家。最後，我要把評論留給帕斯誇萊，他是我們這次合作中出色的合作夥伴，因為他確實支持企業或品牌的完整性，同時也真正支持我們發展它。因此我將把最後的發言留給帕斯誇萊。

Also, I'm sure he will be happy to share his festivity greeting to all of you. I personally thank you for being committed to us. We're working very seriously, be confident that everyone personally on our team is really highly committed to achieve the results that this company deserve and our investors deserve. Please, Pasquale.

此外，我相信他會很高興向大家分享他的節日祝福。我個人感謝您對我們的承諾。我們工作非常認真，相信我們團隊中的每個人都非常致力於實現這家公司和我們的投資者應得的成果。請，帕斯誇萊。

Thanks, Antonio. First of all, thanks to you and Diego and Carlo for the presentation, which has been very, very, very clear. Obviously, I'm always together with you guys, together with you facing all the challenges. I'm very much confident obviously about the future of the company.

謝謝，安東尼奧。首先，感謝您和 Diego 以及 Carlo 的演講，演講非常非常清晰。顯然，我總是和你們在一起，和你們一起面對所有的挑戰。我顯然對公司的未來非常有信心。

Despite the challenged situation, economic situation that is around the world, we have been really investing a lot of money and time this year in improving our retailer system division. Our wholesale division, digitalizing, I mean, all the system with the CRM. We created a new product, a new marketing plan that is achieving a very good result wherever the product has been delivered.

儘管全球經濟形勢嚴峻，但今年我們確實投入了大量資金和時間來改善我們的零售系統部門。我們的批發部門正在數位化，我的意思是，所有系統都採用 CRM。我們創造了一種新產品、制定了新的行銷計劃，無論產品銷往何處，都取得了非常好的效果。

So again, I can just say, I'm confident that despite the challenging environment everywhere in the world, we are confident that considering our plan, our program, we will improve our business, no question about. I want to just, obviously, I'm lucky to have a good management team. This is very, very important.

因此，我可以再說一遍，儘管世界各地的環境都充滿挑戰，但我相信，考慮到我們的計劃、我們的方案，我們將改善我們的業務，這是毫無疑問的。我只是想，顯然，我很幸運能擁有一支優秀的管理團隊。這非常非常重要。

And obviously, I also take the opportunity to say thank you very much to our shareholders that still give us confidence for what we are doing, and we will do our best to satisfy their expectation. Thanks to everyone and happy season, Merry Christmas and wonderful New Year for everyone. Grazie.

當然，我也想藉此機會向我們的股東表示衷心的感謝，他們仍然對我們所做的事情充滿信心，我們將盡最大努力滿足他們的期望。感謝大家，祝大家節日快樂，聖誕快樂，新年快樂。謝謝。

Thank you. That does conclude today's webcast. You may disconnect your line at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的網路直播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，祝您有美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。

Thank you, everybody.

謝謝大家。