MicroVision Inc (MVIS) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and welcome to the MicroVision second-quarter 2025 financial and operating results conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded.

下午好，歡迎參加 MicroVision 2025 年第二季財務與經營績效電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn a conference over to Drew Markham. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給德魯·馬卡姆。請繼續。

Thank you, Paul. Good afternoon. I'm here today with our Chief Executive Officer, Sumit Sharma; and our Chief Financial Officer, Anubhav Verma. Following their prepared remarks, our Chief Technology Officer, Glen DeVos, will join us, and we will open the call to questions.

謝謝你，保羅。午安.今天我和我們的執行長 Sumit Sharma 以及財務長 Anubhav Verma 一起來到這裡。在他們準備好的演講之後，我們的技術長 Glen DeVos 將加入我們，並開始提問。

Please note that some of the information you will hear in today's discussion will include forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, statements regarding status of commercial engagements, business, product and go-to-market strategies, level of customer and partner engagement, cash, liquidity and the impacts of recent financing activities, market landscape and opportunities, program volumes and timing, development projects, performance of our products and solutions, product sales and future demand, projections of future operations, cash flow, availability of funds and conditions for capital raising as well as statements containing words like believe, expect, plan, and other similar expressions.

請注意，您在今天的討論中聽到的一些信息將包括前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關商業合作狀況、業務、產品和上市策略、客戶和合作夥伴參與程度、現金、流動性和近期融資活動的影響、市場格局和機遇、計劃數量和時間、開發項目、我們的產品和解決方案的性能、產品銷售和未來資金的預期、未來資金預測、預期的可用性

These statements are not guarantees of future performance. Actual results could differ materially from the future results implied or expressed in the forward-looking statements. We encourage you to review our SEC filings, including our most recently filed Annual Report on Form 10-K and our quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. These filings describe risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied or expressed in our forward-looking statements. All forward-looking statements are made as of the date of this call, and except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update this information.

這些聲明並不能保證未來的表現。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中暗示或表達的未來結果有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查看我們向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的文件，包括我們最近提交的 10-K 表年度報告和 10-Q 表季度報告。這些文件描述了可能導致我們的實際結果與前瞻性陳述中暗示或表達的結果有重大差異的風險因素。所有前瞻性陳述均截至本次電話會議之日做出，除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新此資訊的義務。

In addition, we will present certain financial measures on this call that will be considered non-GAAP under the SEC's Regulation G. For reconciliations of each non-GAAP financial measure to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure as well as for all the financial data presented on this call, please refer to the information included in our press release and in our Form 8-K dated and submitted to the SEC today, both of which can be found on our corporate website under the SEC Filings tab. This conference call will be available for audio replay on the Investor Relations section of our website at www.microvision.com.

此外，我們將在本次電話會議上提供某些財務指標，根據美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 的 G 條例，這些指標將被視為非 GAAP 指標。有關每項非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的對賬，以及本次電話會議上提供的所有財務數據，請參閱我們的新聞稿和今天提交給 SEC 的 8-K 表格中包含的信息，這兩份文件均可在我們公司網站的“SEC 文件”選項卡下找到。本次電話會議的音訊重播可在我們網站 www.microvision.com 的投資者關係部分觀看。

Now I would like to turn the call over to our Chief Executive Officer, Sumit Sharma. Sumit?

現在我想將電話轉給我們的執行長蘇米特夏爾馬 (Sumit Sharma)。薩米特？

Thank you, Drew, and hello, everyone. Welcome to our second quarter 2025 results review. I'll start by updating you on our progress with commercial agreements in the automotive and industrial markets, followed by what we expect from our military engagements, and finally, refreshing everyone with our vision and mission.

謝謝你，德魯，大家好。歡迎閱讀我們 2025 年第二季的業績回顧。我會先向大家介紹我們在汽車和工業市場商業協議方面的進展，然後介紹我們對軍事行動的期望，最後向大家介紹我們的願景和使命。

Since our last update, our level of engagement with automotive OEMs has increased with multiple reformulated RFQs. A new architecture which Glen will introduce at IAA in September in Munich is instrumental to this. It provides OEMs with a wider operational design domain while making solutions cost-competitive for larger volume adoption.

自上次更新以來，我們與汽車 OEM 的合作程度已經提高，並且已多次重新制定 RFQ。格倫將於 9 月在慕尼黑 IAA 展會上推出的新架構對此起到了重要作用。它為 OEM 提供了更廣泛的營運設計領域，同時使解決方案在成本上具有競爭力，從而實現更大規模的採用。

For the past five years, LiDAR companies have proposed solutions with no mass market adoption by OEMs and limited revenues. The new RFQ's target form factors that can be integrated into automotive design with low power and competitive technology cost for economy of scale. Our new MOVIA S and MAVIN offer the widest field of view, delivering what we believe is the most cost-competitive performance for dynamic view LiDAR. Key features include small object detection at range, the widest system field of view, the lowest system power, and cost-competitive mess with scaled silicon technologies. To succeed in this space, our go-to-market strategies remain steadfast. We are focusing on OEMs with mass-market product plans.

過去五年來，LiDAR 公司提出的解決方案並未被 OEM 大規模採用，而且收入有限。新 RFQ 的目標外形尺寸可以整合到汽車設計中，具有低功耗和具有競爭力的技術成本，從而實現規模經濟。我們的新款 MOVIA S 和 MAVIN 提供了最寬的視野，提供了我們認為動態視圖雷射雷達最具成本競爭力的性能。主要特性包括遠距離小物體偵測、最寬的系統視野、最低的系統功率以及與規模化矽技術的成本競爭力。為了在這一領域取得成功，我們的行銷策略始終堅定不移。我們專注於擁有大眾市場產品計劃的 OEM。

Even with production targeted for 2028 and beyond, it is crucial for us to win in this segment with a scalable product. Cost-competitive and scalable LiDAR products developed for automotive will also empower us in Industrial and Defense segment with higher sensor fusion and perception software sales. We plan to elaborate on this further in September at IAA in Munich.

即使生產目標是在 2028 年及以後，我們仍然必須憑藉可擴展的產品在這一領域取勝。為汽車開發的具有成本競爭力和可擴展性的 LiDAR 產品也將使我們在工業和國防領域獲得更高的感測器融合和感知軟體銷售。我們計劃於 9 月在慕尼黑 IAA 上進一步闡述這一點。

In our Industrial vertical, we are in the final stages of several engagements with ongoing evaluations. This segment is also very important to us. The proposed solutions include our LiDAR hardware integrated with advanced software features like the LiDAR collision avoiding system, L-CAS, directly from the LiDAR sensor. We have multiple opportunities with these products and with industrial customers.

在我們的工業垂直領域，我們正處於幾項合作的最後階段，並正在進行評估。這部分對於我們也非常重要。所提出的解決方案包括我們的 LiDAR 硬體與先進的軟體功能集成，例如直接來自 LiDAR 感測器的 LiDAR 防撞系統 L-CAS。我們透過這些產品和工業客戶擁有多個合作機會。

To advance our sales opportunities in the automated guided machines, autonomous mobile robot segment, we also introduce an aftermarket product with our LiDAR and L-CAS software that can be retrofitted into existing forklift fleets. This product makes adoption of our LiDAR and software far more frictionless for our potential customers. I've been on the road with our sales team for this product and have been pleased by the reception. The mass market product for this segment will be a MOVIA S safety sensor, which we plan to introduce in the coming years.

為了擴大我們在自動導引機、自主移動機器人領域的銷售機會，我們還推出了一款具有 LiDAR 和 L-CAS 軟體的售後產品，可以改裝到現有的堆高機車隊中。該產品使我們的潛在客戶能夠更順暢地採用我們的 LiDAR 和軟體。我和我們的銷售團隊一起出去推銷這款產品，對產品的反應很滿意。該領域的大眾市場產品將是 MOVIA S 安全感測器，我們計劃在未來幾年推出該產品。

In Industrial space, 2D mechanical LIDARs that are safety-qualified currently hold the highest volume and revenue opportunity, though perception software developed with these sensors is extremely limited. To dominate this segment, we expect to forge future partnerships with AGV AMR companies looking to evolve past 2D LiDAR safety sensors to our 3D safety sensor with onboard perception. We are targeting our solid-state MOVIA S LiDAR for this product line. With resolutions more than 2.5 times higher than current products, a smaller form factor, and integrated L-CAS and safety sensor options, I believe this will be a very successful product line and will allow us to establish reliable annual recurring revenues in this vertical. Our current focus is on finalizing commercial partnerships in this segment.

在工業領域，符合安全標準的 2D 機械雷射雷達目前擁有最高的銷售和收入機會，儘管使用這些感測器開發的感知軟體極為有限。為了佔據這一領域的主導地位，我們期望與 AGV AMR 公司建立未來的合作夥伴關係，將過去的 2D LiDAR 安全感測器發展為具有機載感知的 3D 安全感測器。我們將固態 MOVIA S LiDAR 作為此產品線的目標。由於其解析度比現有產品高出 2.5 倍以上、外形更小巧，並整合了 L-CAS 和安全感測器選項，我相信這將是一條非常成功的產品線，並將使我們能夠在這一垂直領域建立可靠的年度經常性收入。我們目前的重點是完成該領域的商業合作夥伴關係。

The Defense vertical presents a significant opportunity for us to collaborate with existing prime contractors and to serve as a primary technology provider for a comprehensive hardware and sensor fusion product. The defense market demands dual-use technologies and cost-effective systems for land-based, aerial, and maritime autonomous platforms. Each of these platforms requires high-performance, highly reliable LiDAR, seamlessly sensor fusion software, and a perception software layer that extracts insights from the localization and mapping to enable full autonomy. These systems must be capable of operating in GPS-denied environments without extensive AI training data. This is the forefront of autonomy, and our products and technologies can significantly impact this segment.

國防垂直產業為我們與現有主承包商合作並成為綜合硬體和感測器融合產品的主要技術提供者提供了重要機會。國防市場需要用於陸基、空中和海上自主平台的兩用技術和經濟高效的系統。這些平台中的每一個都需要高性能、高可靠性的光達、無縫感測器融合軟體以及從定位和地圖中提取洞察以實現完全自主的感知軟體層。這些系統必須能夠在沒有大量 AI 訓練資料的情況下在 GPS 拒絕的環境中運作。這是自主性的前沿，我們的產品和技術可以對這領域產生重大影響。

Developing and demonstrating our technology in the military space will further create opportunities in the future for us in automotive and industrial to bring advanced technologies built on top of our LiDAR for years to come. In the first half of next year, we plan to publicly demonstrate an autonomous swarming drone system. This system will be capable of creating detailed maps of regions and communicating these maps in real time, allowing other autonomous drones to execute a wide range of missions. The core sensor fusion and autonomy software we are developing will facilitate partnerships in aerial, maritime, and terrestrial domains. This drone technology demonstrator will be crucial in advancing our collaborations.

在軍事領域開發和展示我們的技術將為我們在未來的汽車和工業領域創造機會，在未來幾年內在我們的雷射雷達上推出先進的技術。明年上半年，我們計劃公開展示自主群集無人機系統。該系統將能夠創建區域的詳細地圖並即時傳達這些地圖，使其他自主無人機能夠執行各種任務。我們正在開發的核心感測器融合和自主軟體將促進空中、海上和陸地領域的合作。這款無人機技術演示器對於推進我們的合作至關重要。

Our go-to-market strategy for the defense sector will center on developing advanced LiDAR sensors and sensor fusion technology that delivers the highest level of actionable perception software. We target partnering with established prime defense contractors, and these partnerships may lead to further opportunities for joint ventures that can accelerate our revenue growth.

我們針對國防部門的行銷策略將以開發先進的 LiDAR 感測器和感測器融合技術為中心，以提供最高水準的可操作感知軟體。我們的目標是與現有的主要國防承包商建立合作夥伴關係，這些合作關係可能會帶來進一步的合資機會，從而加速我們的收入成長。

Our company's vision is to accelerate the global adoption of autonomous technologies across all segments. Our mission is to partner and develop the most advanced LiDAR sensors integrated with edge perception software for the automotive segment, enable the industrial segment with advanced robotics software and our LiDARs, and empower the military segment with autonomous software with multi-mode sensor integration.

我們公司的願景是加速全球各領域對自動化技術的採用。我們的使命是與汽車領域合作開發最先進的整合邊緣感知軟體的 LiDAR 感測器，為工業領域提供先進的機器人軟體和我們的 LiDAR，並為軍事領域提供具有多模式感測器整合的自主軟體。

I will keep my remarks brief today to allow time for questions from our shareholders, which I would like to prioritize. I'd like to turn the call over to Anubhav now. Anubhav?

我今天的發言將簡短一些，以便有時間回答股東的提問，我希望優先回答這些問題。我現在想將電話轉給 Anubhav。阿努巴夫？

Thanks, Sumit. From a financial perspective, the first half of this year, especially the second quarter, witnessed increased trading activity and institutional trading, not just in MicroVision, but across the board in our peers as well. This sustained momentum and elevated interest in LiDAR and auto tech names, pedals an exciting time for us.

謝謝，Sumit。從財務角度來看，今年上半年，特別是第二季度，交易活動和機構交易都有所增加，不僅是在 MicroVision，而且在我們所有的同業中也是如此。這種持續的勢頭以及人們對 LiDAR 和汽車技術名稱日益增長的興趣，為我們帶來了激動人心的時刻。

A lot of blue-chip institutions also seem to be turning their focus back onto auto tech, especially LiDAR sector, primarily due to two factors. Number one, the progress that's being made towards commercialization across automotive and robotics and defense tech. Number two, a global portfolio rebalancing that seems to be at play for large financial institutions, as a result of which small to mid-cap companies are expected to continue to benefit from this trend.

許多藍籌機構似乎也把注意力重新轉向汽車科技，尤其是光達領域，主要原因有兩個。第一，汽車、機器人和國防技術的商業化正在取得進展。第二，全球投資組合再平衡似乎正在對大型金融機構產生影響，因此，中小型公司預計將繼續受益於此趨勢。

Expanding on Sumit's comments, we made significant progress with NVIDIA, by achieving full integration with their Drive AGX platform. This is a big step forward for us to become a fully qualified solution provider, particularly as we engage in several RFQs with automotive OEMs for our integrated, long-range, and short-range LiDAR solution. We're looking forward to IAA in Munich next month to demonstrate our new integrated solution for the OEMs. We believe that price will continue to be the single most important fact for OEM decisions to drive higher LiDAR adoption.

進一步闡述 Sumit 的評論，我們與 NVIDIA 的合作取得了重大進展，實現了與他們的 Drive AGX 平台的完全整合。這對我們成為完全合格的解決方案提供者來說是一大進步，特別是當我們與汽車 OEM 就我們的整合、遠端和短程 LiDAR 解決方案進行多次 RFQ 時。我們期待下個月在慕尼黑舉行的 IAA 展會上向 OEM 展示我們的新整合解決方案。我們相信，價格將繼續成為 OEM 決策推動更高 LiDAR 採用率的唯一最重要的因素。

The automotive vertical will always be the primary driver for high-volume recurring business that gets us to scale. We're driving momentum in the industrial AGV AMR market to drive near-term revenue opportunities leveraging our perception software and MOVIA hardware to solve complex business problems for our customers at attractive price points that lower their system costs and increase their internal productivity and efficiency. We believe that our production commitment with ZF in France drives our ability to meet the anticipated high-volume demand from customers in the space for our MOVIA L product. We believe the ability to mass-produce automotive-grade products ensures continuous and uninterrupted supply at a pricing advantage to our customers given our minimal exposure to China-based manufacturing.

汽車垂直市場始終是推動我們擴大規模的大量經常性業務的主要驅動力。我們正在推動工業 AGV AMR 市場的發展，利用我們的感知軟體和 MOVIA 硬體來推動近期的收入機會，以極具吸引力的價格為我們的客戶解決複雜的業務問題，從而降低他們的系統成本並提高他們的內部生產力和效率。我們相信，我們與法國 ZF 的生產承諾將推動我們滿足該領域客戶對 MOVIA L 產品的預期大批量需求。我們相信，由於我們對中國製造業的依賴程度最低，大規模生產汽車級產品的能力可以確保以價格優勢向客戶持續不間斷地供應產品。

While the situation continues to be dynamic and evolving regarding global tariffs, we believe MicroVision remains well positioned with our manufacturing partner in France. We continue to press ahead with our pursuit of revenue opportunities in the defense vertical. We recently added Scott Goldstein to our Advisory Board to help find near-term partnerships. Our go-to-market strategy in the sector will be focused on mission-specific projects in three key areas: maritime, airborne, and terrestrial. In short order, we plan to demonstrate a complete solution with multimodal sensors and our full-stack software capable of enabling unmanned drones to complete specific missions. We recently bolstered our sales and business development teams by attracting experienced, talented individuals from some of our key competitors.

儘管全球關稅情況持續變化，但我們相信 MicroVision 與我們在法國的製造合作夥伴仍處於有利地位。我們將繼續努力尋求國防垂直領域的創收機會。我們最近將 Scott Goldstein 加入我們的顧問委員會，以幫助尋找近期合作夥伴。我們在該領域的行銷策略將集中在三個關鍵領域的特定任務項目：海上、空中和地面。我們計劃很快展示一套完整的解決方案，該解決方案包含多模式感測器和全端軟體，能夠使無人機完成特定的任務。我們最近從一些主要競爭對手中吸收了經驗豐富、才華橫溢的人才，從而增強了我們的銷售和業務開發團隊。

MicroVision remains well-positioned in the marketplace with diversified near-term revenue opportunities in the Industrial and Defense sectors. The expanded TAMs, streamlined cost structure, and recent financings have solidified our position. Now let's review our second quarter financial results.

MicroVision 在工業和國防部門擁有多樣化的短期收入機會，在市場上仍佔據有利地位。擴大的 TAM、精簡的成本結構以及最近的融資鞏固了我們的地位。現在讓我們回顧一下第二季的財務表現。

Revenue. For the second quarter, we reported revenues of $0.15 million. This quarter's revenue was driven by our sales in the industrial verticals. Expenses. Our second quarter 2025 R&D and SG&A expenses were $14.1 million, including $1.9 million of noncash charges related to stock-based compensation and $1.5 million non-cash charges related to D&A. Backing out these noncash charges, our R&D and SG&A cash expenses were only $11 million in the quarter. On a year-over-year basis, we have reduced our expenses by 44%. We expect the current spending level to be sustained through the rest of the year.

收入。我們報告的第二季收入為 15 萬美元。本季的收入主要來自我們在工業垂直領域的銷售。開支。我們 2025 年第二季的研發和銷售、一般及行政費用為 1,410 萬美元，其中包括與股票薪酬相關的 190 萬美元非現金費用和與 D&A 相關的 150 萬美元非現金費用。除去這些非現金費用，本季我們的研發和銷售、一般及行政費用現金支出僅 1,100 萬美元。與去年同期相比，我們的開支減少了 44%。我們預計目前的支出水準將在今年剩餘時間內維持下去。

We believe our existing workforce and level of expenses allow us to execute on the current business strategy. We believe our current engineering teams can support continued engagement with automotive OEMs and simultaneously scale faster with industrial and defense opportunities in the near term. Q4 CapEx was $0.2 million in line with our expectations.

我們相信，我們現有的勞動力和費用水準使我們能夠執行當前的業務策略。我們相信，我們目前的工程團隊可以支持與汽車原始設備製造商的持續合作，同時在短期內隨著工業和國防機會的擴大而更快地擴展。第四季資本支出為 20 萬美元，符合我們的預期。

So let's talk about our balance sheet. We finished this quarter with $91.4 million in cash and cash equivalents. In addition, the company has availability of $76.5 million under our current ATM facility and $30 million of undrawn capital under the convertible note facility. As I mentioned earlier, The LiDAR sector and broadly the auto tech sector saw elevated trading volumes in the first half of 2025 due to increased interest from institutions trading in these securities. Given the favorable market volumes, we raised about $35 million net from the ATM during the second quarter and bolstered our balance sheet.

那麼讓我們來談談我們的資產負債表。本季末我們的現金和現金等價物為 9,140 萬美元。此外，該公司在現有 ATM 融資機制下擁有 7,650 萬美元可用資金，在可轉換票據融資機制下擁有 3,000 萬美元未提取資本。正如我之前提到的，由於交易這些證券的機構興趣增加，LiDAR 領域以及整個汽車科技領域的交易量在 2025 年上半年有所上升。鑑於良好的市場交易量，我們在第二季從 ATM 機淨籌集了約 3500 萬美元，並增強了我們的資產負債表。

While we will continue to be opportunistic in raising capital, we believe that with the recent raises and our current ongoing operating cost structure, we have extended our runway into 2027. The extended runway makes MicroVision an attractive investment opportunity for new large financial institutions.

雖然我們將繼續抓住機會籌集資金，但我們相信，憑藉最近的融資和我們目前持續的營運成本結構，我們已經將我們的跑道延伸至 2027 年。延長的跑道使 MicroVision 成為新興大型金融機構的一個有吸引力的投資機會。

On the convertible note, we have approximately $33 million outstanding that converts at a fixed price of $1.60. With $91.4 million cash at hand, were now adequately capitalized to make these debt payments starting September 1 in cash, with the cash on hand, or through stock if the holders choose to exercise their option due to favorable market conditions. The $30 million second tranche remains undrawn and available for future drawdowns.

就可轉換債券而言，我們約有3,300萬美元未償還，可以1.60美元的固定價格轉換。我們手頭上有9,140萬美元現金，目前資本充足，足以從9月1日起以現金、手頭現金或股票（如果持有人因市場行情有利而選擇行使期權）的方式償還這些債務。第二筆 3000 萬美元的款項尚未提取，可供將來提取。

We're pleased to have found a strategic financial partner whose confidence in MicroVision's future has motivated an alignment of economic interest in step with our management team, employees, and other shareholders. MicroVision's average trading volumes have significantly increased, which in part is due to the investment commitment of over $90 million from one single investor. As I have noted before, this is the first in the company's history, and I am quite pleased with the recent uptake in our trading activity. Our average daily trading volume has more than doubled. Over 5.2 million shares traded on an average on a daily basis during the entire second quarter in 2025. The equivalent number was 2.6 million in the corresponding period in 2024.

我們很高興找到了一個策略性金融合作夥伴，他對 MicroVision 的未來充滿信心，並促使我們與管理團隊、員工和其他股東保持經濟利益的一致。MicroVision 的平均交易量大幅增加，部分原因是來自一位投資者超過 9,000 萬美元的投資承諾。正如我之前提到的，這是公司歷史上的第一次，我對我們近期交易活動的成長感到非常高興。我們的每日平均交易量增加了一倍以上。2025 年整個第二季度，平均每天交易量超過 520 萬股。2024年同期的相應數字為260萬。

While a solid foundational retail base is very core to MicroVision, we are pleased to report that the recent $90 million investment commitment has unlocked a sharp increase in trading and inbound interest from several large financial institutions. This has significantly elevated visibility of the company across the broader institutional investor universe. We remain relentlessly focused on our execution and continue to have excellent engagement with industrial customers on their technology roadmaps.

雖然堅實的基礎零售基礎對於 MicroVision 來說至關重要，但我們很高興地報告，最近的 9000 萬美元投資承諾已引發幾家大型金融機構的交易和入駐興趣的急劇增長。這大大提高了該公司在更廣泛的機構投資者群體中的知名度。我們始終堅持不懈地專注於我們的執行，並繼續與工業客戶就他們的技術路線圖進行良好的合作。

To summarize, we're really excited about positioning MicroVision as one of the frontrunners of the autonomy enablers for the three end markets. We continue to drive forward with significantly higher TAMs, including defense and industrial, expansive and broadening solution advancements, a solid balance sheet with superior trading metrics, and a well-experienced team to execute the strategy.

總而言之，我們非常高興將 MicroVision 定位為三大終端市場自主推動者的領導者之一。我們將繼續推動顯著更高的 TAM，包括國防和工業、廣泛和擴大的解決方案進步、具有卓越交易指標的穩健資產負債表以及執行戰略的經驗豐富的團隊。

Operator, I would now like to open the line for questions.

接線員，我現在想開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Jesse Sobelson, D. Boral Capital.

（操作員指示） Jesse Sobelson，D. Boral Capital。

Thanks for taking my questions here. It really sounds like there's a lot of exciting developments both on the military side here with the autonomous drones you mentioned in these remarks as well as just, you know, across the board with other end markets that we've discussed previously.

感謝您在這裡回答我的問題。聽起來確實有很多令人興奮的發展，不僅在軍事方面，包括您在這些評論中提到的自主無人機，而且在我們之前討論過的其他終端市場也有廣泛的發展。

I wanted to ask just on the industrial pipeline visibility. You mentioned growing momentum in the industrial verticals. Can you expand on specific use cases or customer types showing any traction, and when do you expect this to materially impact revenue?

我只是想問一下工業管道的可見性。您提到了垂直工業領域的成長動能。您能否詳細說明一下具有吸引力的具體用例或客戶類型，以及您預計何時這會對收入產生重大影響？

Yeah, I think we updated this in the Investor Day. I think everything we've said publicly so far stays in play. In the industrial space, primarily AGV AMRs is the target. Imagine, in the logistics space, there's a bunch of requirements for autonomy that people think about, but there's a bigger unmet need of higher levels of safety. Our product with our concurrent MOVIA L integrated with a L_CAS system with a displays sort of equivalent to a retrofittable, like a bolt-on solution that goes on all existing installs. So you're not waiting for a forklift OEM to integrate into their next-generation product, which their cycles are longer and slower.

是的，我想我們在投資者日更新了這一點。我認為我們迄今為止公開所說的一切仍然有效。在工業領域，主要目標是 AGV AMR。想像一下，在物流領域，人們對自主性有很多要求，但對更高的安全性有一個更大的未滿足的需求。我們的產品與並發的 MOVIA L 整合在一起，並帶有與可改裝的顯示器類似的 L_CAS 系統，就像一個適用於所有現有安裝的螺栓固定解決方案。因此，您無需等待堆高機 OEM 將其整合到其下一代產品中，因為他們的周期更長、更慢。

We are in some of those RFQs, right? And I think we're planning to successfully close on some of them. But I think the bigger opportunity is the install business already exists. And there is quite a lot of sales organizations out there that retrofit that have access to these customers that have huge install bases, and they're looking for a plug-in ADAS solution, more like a warning system, to get it going faster than the forklift OEM (inaudible). So from that standpoint, you know, there's a market for that. You know, certainly higher ASPs there, they get time to market is faster because we give a fully integrated product.

我們正在參與一些 RFQ，對嗎？我認為我們計劃成功完成其中一些任務。但我認為更大的機會是安裝業務已經存在。並且有相當多的銷售組織在那裡進行改造，他們可以接觸到擁有龐大安裝基礎的客戶，他們正在尋找一個插件式 ADAS 解決方案，更像是一個警告系統，以使其比叉車 OEM（聽不清）更快地運行。所以從這個角度來看，你知道，這是有市場的。您知道，那裡的平均售價肯定更高，因為我們提供了完全整合的產品，所以他們的產品上市時間更快。

Beyond that, there's also other opportunities where a LiDAR with customized software with multiple customers can be integrated to enable their L-CAS system or other kinds of automation, and our team is working actively on that. Our engineering teams and our sales team are working actively on that.

除此之外，還有其他機會，可以將具有客製化軟體的 LiDAR 與多個客戶集成，以支援他們的 L-CAS 系統或其他類型的自動化，我們的團隊正在積極致力於此。我們的工程團隊和銷售團隊正在積極致力於此。

And Jesse, from a timing standpoint, we expect these revenues in the second half of this year and then continue in 2026, as we mentioned before.

傑西，從時間角度來看，我們預計這些收入將在今年下半年實現，並在 2026 年持續實現，正如我們之前提到的。

Great. That's wonderful to hear. I really appreciate the detail there. Then just to quickly touch upon the defense sector, and then I'll let the line open up for some other questions. But the autonomous drone that you guys are discussing sounds very intriguing. Are there any specific programs or agencies that you're aiming to engage with in this defense vertical? And what would be the timing of expecting any prototypes to be announced or any potential pilots beginning with these targeted agencies? Thank you.

偉大的。聽到這個消息真是太好了。我真的很欣賞那裡的細節。然後我簡單談談國防部門，然後我會回答一些其他問題。但是你們討論的自主無人機聽起來非常有趣。在國防垂直領域，您是否有計劃參與哪些具體項目或機構？預計何時發布原型或與這些目標機構開始潛在試點？謝謝。

We're working actively in this space, right? I think as partnerships happen, we will announce them. I think in this case, you know, something we have certain blocks of technology that were already built out, specifically the sensor fusion, the perception in our LiDAR products. Beyond that, you know, we are integrating other sensors into it.

我們正在這個領域積極工作，對嗎？我認為，一旦合作關係建立，我們就會宣布。我認為在這種情況下，我們已經建立了某些技術模組，特別是感測器融合、我們的 LiDAR 產品中的感知技術。除此之外，我們還將其他感測器整合到其中。

So again, as Anupam mentioned, very mission-specific, so we're not making a general product. But instead of waiting for a partnership to be announced and then start working on a development, we've seen enough interest in it that it was easy to demonstrate something by the early first half of next year with the drone technology, which is completely, you know, puts us in a completely different category than any other LiDAR company.

所以，正如 Anupam 所提到的，我們的任務非常具體，所以我們不會生產通用產品。但是，我們並沒有等待合作關係宣布後再開始開發，而是看到了人們對此的足夠興趣，因此我們很容易在明年上半年利用無人機技術展示一些東西，這完全使我們與任何其他 LiDAR 公司處於完全不同的類別。

So if you think about this thing, it's a demonstrator, it's a public demonstrator. We're funding it based on input that we received from a lot of different places of something, one of the crucial blocks that we should be demonstrating for partners to, you know, evaluate our level expertise.

所以如果你想想這件事，這是一個示威者，這是一個公開的示威者。我們根據從許多不同地方收到的意見來為其提供資金，這是我們應該向合作夥伴展示的關鍵要素之一，以便評估我們的專業水平。

Glen, perhaps you want to give some color?

格倫，也許你想給一些顏色？

Yeah, that's exactly right, Sumit. As you mentioned, we really have a multiple-phase project launched for airborne drones where we can show not just here's how a LiDAR sensor works, but rather here's how LiDAR, vision, ultimately radar, all work together to provide a couple different things. One is pure autonomous navigation for that drone. So in RF and GPS-denied environments, very common, and particularly in areas of conflict, you are able to navigate that drone with precision without having to rely on any external communications. We can also create the maps real-time and then share those maps with other drones. Sumit mentioned swarming and multiple drone operations. Well, you can enable that through that communication of real-time maps from one drone to another, and so we'll be showcasing how that actually works and how our technology develops that.

是的，完全正確，Sumit。正如您所提到的，我們確實已經為機載無人機啟動了一個多階段項目，我們不僅可以展示 LiDAR 感測器的工作原理，還可以展示 LiDAR、視覺以及最終的雷達如何協同工作以提供一些不同的東西。一是無人機的純自主導航。因此，在 RF 和 GPS 拒絕的環境中（非常常見），特別是在衝突地區，您能夠精確地導航無人機，而無需依賴任何外部通訊。我們還可以即時建立地圖，然後與其他無人機分享這些地圖。蘇米特提到了蜂群和多架無人機的行動。嗯，您可以透過從一架無人機到另一架無人機的即時地圖通訊來實現這一點，因此我們將展示它的實際工作原理以及我們的技術如何開發它。

And the great thing is, if you think about the drone somewhat agnostically, it's a vehicle platform that we'll control. MicroVision has all of the constituent technologies required to make that happen. We have the sensors. We have the ability to process and fuse the different sensing modalities. We have the map-making and basically the perception software so we can build the environmental model for the vehicle or for the drone.

最棒的是，如果你從某種不可知論的角度考慮無人機，它就是一個我們可以控制的車輛平台。MicroVision 擁有實現此目標所需的所有組成技術。我們有感測器。我們有能力處理和融合不同的感測模式。我們擁有地圖製作和基本感知軟體，因此我們可以為車輛或無人機建立環境模型。

And then we have the actual autonomous stack that sits on top. This is back from the IP that we acquired with Ibeo. So we're able to integrate those existing assets into this new package. And that's why, for us, it's important to be able to just showcase that, use that as a platform to attract and work with and identify and work with the right partners in that space. And the initial focus is on defense, but when you think about what we just talked about, it really applies very broadly to commercial markets, logistics, and many other different markets, so that technology can easily be transferred over to other end markets, but the initial focus is really what we can do in defense.

然後我們有位於頂部的實際自主堆疊。這是我們透過 Ibeo 獲得的 IP。因此我們能夠將這些現有資產整合到這個新包中。這就是為什麼對我們來說，能夠展示這一點、利用它作為平台來吸引、合作、識別並與該領域的合適合作夥伴合作非常重要。最初的重點是國防，但當你思考我們剛才談到的內容時，它實際上廣泛應用於商業市場、物流和許多其他不同的市場，因此技術可以輕鬆轉移到其他終端市場，但最初的重點實際上是我們在國防方面可以做什麼。

Casey Ryan, WestPark Capital.

凱西·瑞安（Casey Ryan），WestPark Capital。

Thank you for the update. Hey. Talking about end markets and TAMs, do we need to break industrial down to be broader than what we've talked about historically just that, distribution, warehousing is one, but are we starting to see a more expansive definition of industrial or sort of non-automotive? It'd be great to hear about that.

感謝您的更新。嘿。談到終端市場和 TAM，我們是否需要將工業細分得比我們過去討論的更廣泛的範圍，分銷、倉儲就是其中之一，但我們是否開始看到更廣泛的工業或非汽車定義？聽到這個消息真是太好了。

(technical difficulty) Let me just get some context on that. So to think about the industrial, I think the way to approach the problem is what are the channels that you have to go in, that you have to develop, to get your product into the market. Actually, we know how to make product, we know how to solve problems, but I think it's really come from, you got this awesome technology that you're sitting with, but how are you gonna actually develop a channel to dominate?

（技術難題）讓我了解相關背景。因此，對於工業而言，我認為解決問題的方法是，你必須進入哪些管道，你必須開發哪些管道，才能將你的產品推向市場。實際上，我們知道如何製造產品，我們知道如何解決問題，但我認為這真的來自於，你擁有這項令人敬畏的技術，但你實際上如何開發一個管道來佔據主導地位？

So if you can take the industrial space, the way to break it down is geo-fenced, mixed-use, ADAS, but also there are certain parts that are kind of automated in the sense that If somebody needs a safety sensor right now, they know exactly who the three to four suppliers are, they know who's number one that's got more than 80% market share in there, they go get a quote, and they just keep replacing or the new equipment keep adding. So over a long period of time, there's a recurring revenue in that space that is agnostic of the three segments that I described. When they develop any kind of AGV AMRs, they need a safety sensor, they always go to a standard product.

因此，如果你能佔據工業空間，那麼分解它的方式就是地理圍欄、混合用途、ADAS，但也有某些部分是自動化的，如果某人現在需要一個安全感測器，他們確切地知道三到四家供應商是誰，他們知道誰是擁有超過 80% 市場份額的頭號供應商，他們去獲得報價，然後他們就不斷更換設備或不斷添加新設備。因此，在很長一段時間內，該領域的經常性收入與我所描述的三個部分無關。當他們開發任何類型的 AGV AMR 時，他們都需要一個安全感測器，他們總是選擇標準產品。

So if you think about the chain (technical difficulty) have to create a channel for that market where we're a standardized safety sensor product, then you would need a higher workforce, of course, when that moment comes in, because the way you would actually go do sales is different than the small thing we have right now that goes after individual high-volume projects. You'd have to really be a mass market product and deploy across different distribution channels.

因此，如果您考慮鏈條（技術難度），必須為我們作為標準化安全感測器產品的市場創建一個管道，那麼您當然需要更多的勞動力，因為當那一刻到來時，您實際進行銷售的方式與我們現在追求單個大批量項目的小事不同。你必須真正成為大眾市場產品並部署在不同的分銷管道。

So the real answer is that how do you segment this market? Well, there's multiple ways. Right now, given how we're targeting, we have to pick the cherry products that have high volume. Recently, we were discussing with somebody in an RFQ, and the volume was only 1,500. And they're like, oh, we're only 1,500 units. And I met them, and I said, no, no, that's pretty good for us, right? Because that's how the momentum starts. Of course, we'll build trust from there, and we'll go and take years to build it into their pipeline.

所以真正的答案是如何細分這個市場？嗯，有多種方法。現在，考慮到我們的目標，我們必須選擇銷售量大的櫻桃產品。最近我們在跟人討論RFQ，數量只有1500。他們會說，哦，我們只有 1,500 個單位。我見到他們後，我說，不，不，這對我們來說已經很不錯了，對吧？因為這就是動力的開始。當然，我們會從那裡建立信任，並花費數年時間將其融入他們的管道中。

So I don't think you have to dissect the segment more, but dominantly, factory automation, and warehouse. This is the two big places where this sensor and any sensor that we come up with, safety sensor, is going to be dominant. So I think we can keep it at those segments. It's how we attack those segments and how we go after developing those channels is probably a better way to discuss because, of course, features are expensively related to that.

因此，我認為您不必進一步剖析該領域，但主要專注於工廠自動化和倉庫。在這兩個重要領域中，該感測器以及我們發明的任何感測器（安全感測器）都將佔據主導地位。所以我認為我們可以將其保留在這些部分。更好的討論方式可能是我們如何攻擊這些細分市場以及如何開發這些管道，因為當然，功能與此相關成本昂貴。

Right now, what we can do with our current workforce, our sales team, is focus on some things. And once we get the real understanding of how those channels are developing, We can invest heavier to go higher. But when we go to the safety sensor, you definitely need a bigger sales team to go global across multiple distribution channels.

現在，我們現有的員工、銷售團隊可以做的就是專注於一些事情。一旦我們真正了解這些管道的發展情況，我們就可以增加投資，實現更高的發展。但當我們談到安全感測器時，你肯定需要一個更大的銷售團隊來透過多個分銷管道走向全球。

Mr. Ryan, did you have a follow up?

瑞安先生，您有後續消息嗎？

Let's move to the next then.

那我們進入下一步吧。

I will now turn this call back over to Anubhav Verma. To read questions submitted through the webcast. Thank you.

現在我將把這通電話轉回給 Anubhav Verma。閱讀透過網路廣播提交的問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Paul. Right. So first question, what is the status of the industrial OEM evaluating our technology? Can you explain what is causing the order delay? What is the status of other industrial companies evaluating our technology?

謝謝你，保羅。正確的。那麼第一個問題是，工業 OEM 對我們的技術的評估如何？您能解釋一下導致訂單延遲的原因嗎？其他工業公司對我們的技術的評價情況如何？

Yeah, I'll take this. I don't think there is any delay in making a decision. I think, we have a sensor. We provide software. They have their own software to integrate into their AGV AMRs. Like some of the ones that we visited are as few as 1,500 units. Some of them are higher than that. I think they're all in different levels of evaluation of how they will integrate into their system.

是的，我會接受這個。我認為做出決定不會有任何延遲。我認為，我們有一個感測器。我們提供軟體。他們有自己的軟體可以整合到他們的 AGV AMR 中。我們參觀過的一些工廠只有 1,500 台。其中一些甚至比這還要高。我認為他們對如何融入他們的系統的評估水平都不同。

Of course, we sell a solution. But the bigger thing that every partner has to figure out is if they are making a new product, how is that going to plug into the supply chain, has to go to their factory, get installed, the integration part of it. If you have a customer that's potentially looking at to go more aggressively and retrofit it, they have to figure all those things out. Like, once the product gets installed, how would you upgrade a firmware bug that could be found? So there's lots of steps involved to get that integration part done.

當然，我們銷售的是解決方案。但每個合作夥伴必須解決的更重要的問題是，如果他們正在製造一種新產品，那麼該產品將如何連接供應鏈，如何進入他們的工廠，如何進行安裝，如何進行整合。如果您的客戶可能正在考慮更積極地進行改造，他們必須弄清楚所有這些事情。例如，一旦產品安裝完畢，您將如何升級可能發現的韌體錯誤？因此，完成整合部分需要涉及許多步驟。

So I would just qualify it as more that it is in deep evaluation. I think in all cases, we have not really submitted any big changes. I think we're done. We just support them in the various things that all these customers are finding just to upgrade our offering. But our input at this point is minimal, and we are actively supporting their integration efforts to make sure everything is exactly the way they would want.

因此，我認為它還需要進一步深入評估。我認為在所有情況下，我們都沒有真正提交任何重大變更。我想我們已經完成了。我們只是在所有這些客戶發現的各種事情上為他們提供支持，以升級我們的產品。但我們目前的投入很少，我們正在積極支持他們的整合工作，以確保一切都按照他們想要的方式進行。

These customers are different than automotive customers. Automotive customers have multiple years to figure this out. Industrial customers, on the other hand, they can take as little as 12 months, as much as 24 months. So typically, like they want to make sure whatever they're buying is going to smoothly integrate. So that's where we are in these engagements.

這些客戶與汽車客戶不同。汽車客戶有好幾年的時間來解決這個問題。另一方面，對於工業客戶來說，他們可能需要最短 12 個月，最長 24 個月的時間。因此通常他們希望確保所購買的任何產品都能順利整合。這就是我們在這些活動中的現況。

Anubhav, I think you're on mute.

Anubhav，我認為​​你靜音了。

Next question. Recently, most of the other LiDAR companies have announced sensors for the industrial sectors. How do you plan to compete with them especially existing players like ALSTAR and SICK, that have a stronger revenue and a customer base.

下一個問題。最近，大多數其他 LiDAR 公司都發布了用於工業領域的傳感器。您計劃如何與他們競爭，尤其是與 ALSTAR 和 SICK 等擁有更高收入和客戶群的現有參與者競爭。

Glen, you want to tackle this?

格倫，你想解決這個問題嗎？

Yeah, I think really, on a couple different levels. Especially when we look at the existing portfolios of those parts. They're largely electromechanical. Electromechanical assemblies, quite large, large power. So really, there's a few dimensions that we compete on.

是的，我認為確實如此，在幾個不同的層面上。尤其是當我們查看這些部分的現有投資組合時。它們主要是機電式的。機電組件，體積比較大，功率也大。所以實際上，我們在幾個方面有競爭。

The first is really on technology. And what I mean by that is when you look at the products we're offering for industrial, which are all silicon-based, so their flashlights are all silicon-based. They just have a fundamental cost advantage for the technology itself in terms of how you assemble the sensor, how you operate the sensor, and the benefit that scale brings in terms of the production of that sensor. So there's a significant cost-floor advantage for us.

第一個確實是技術問題。我的意思是，當您查看我們為工業提供的產品時，它們都是矽基的，因此它們的手電筒都是矽基的。就如何組裝感測器、如何操作感測器以及規模生產感測器的好處而言，他們只是在技術本身上具有根本的成本優勢。因此，我們擁有顯著的成本底線優勢。

The second is. As we package ours, it's for harsh environments, and so whether you're spraying it with a wand to clean the vehicle or it's wiping it down with an older cloth, our lenses, our gorilla glass, the product is sealed, has high-integrity sealing, so that it's very, very compatible with harsh environment. Not just shock and vibe, but really the elements that you see in these industrial environments. And then the third is just size and power. They're more compact. They consume less power, which is very critical for battery-operated AGVs and AMRs.

第二個是。我們的包裝適用於惡劣的環境，因此無論您是用噴槍噴灑來清潔車輛，還是用舊布擦拭，我們的鏡片、大猩猩玻璃、產品都是密封的，具有高完整性密封，因此它與惡劣的環境非常兼容。不只是震撼和氛圍，還有你在這些工業環境中看到的元素。第三點就是規模和力量。它們更加緊湊。它們消耗的電量更少，這對於電池供電的 AGV 和 AMR 來說非常關鍵。

The next dimension that we think we have a competitive advantage is in that we're not just providing a catalog sensor that can deliver a point cloud. We have, in fact, that full software stack that goes with that sensor. So we can provide perception. We can provide driver assistance or L-CAS features on top of that perception. We can deliver a wide range of functional content in that sensor. So we can really tailor that to the particular OEM's needs.

我們認為我們具有競爭優勢的下一個方面是，我們不只是提供可以提供點雲的目錄感測器。事實上，我們擁有與該感測器配套的完整軟體堆疊。因此我們可以提供感知。我們可以在此感知的基礎上提供駕駛輔助或 L-CAS 功能。我們可以在該感測器中提供廣泛的功能內容。因此我們能夠真正滿足特定 OEM 的需求。

And I think it's really critically that we're not just -- it's not a one-size-fits-all type of solution or a catalog sale. It really is where these OEMs that we're working with, we can tailor the solution to their vehicles, their needs in terms of their end-use applications. And what we're seeing with customers is that's a significant difference maker for that customer. They're not trying to -- they don't have to adapt their system to our sensor. We can integrate it with their architecture.

我認為至關重要的是，我們不僅僅是——這不是一種放之四海而皆準的解決方案或目錄銷售。事實上，我們與這些原始設備製造商合作，可以根據他們的車輛和最終用途應用的需求來客製化解決方案。我們在客戶身上看到的是，這對客戶來說是一個重大的改變因素。他們沒有嘗試——他們不必使他們的系統適應我們的感測器。我們可以將其與他們的架構整合。

And then finally, I would highlight, as Sumit mentioned earlier, the whole idea of the bolt-on system. Because we have that complete offering, hardware, software, perception, features on top, L-CAS functionality. We're able to actually offer those customers a bolt-on system for existing vehicles and for existing fleets or for fleets that are just going out that don't have any driver assistance or safety-related features with them. And as a result, we're able to basically just power that up, easily added to the system, provide that vehicle with an additional level of safety performance very quickly. We offer the entire software stack that enables that.

最後，正如 Sumit 之前提到的，我想強調一下螺栓固定係統的整體概念。因為我們擁有完整的產品、硬體、軟體、感知、頂級功能以及 L-CAS 功能。我們實際上能夠為這些客戶提供適用於現有車輛、現有車隊或剛出去且沒有任何駕駛輔助或安全相關功能的車隊的附加系統。因此，我們基本上只需啟動它，輕鬆添加到系統中，就能非常快速地為車輛提供額外的安全性能。我們提供實現這一目標的整個軟體堆疊。

And so that's, as Sumit has mentioned earlier, we're seeing a really strong pull for that because there really aren't driver assistance systems like that or safety systems out there today. This enables our customers to be able to adopt, deploy very rapidly, and then start getting the benefits both in terms of safety as well as increased productivity from the adoption of those systems.

正如 Sumit 之前提到的，我們看到了對此的強烈吸引力，因為目前確實沒有這樣的駕駛輔助系統或安全系統。這使我們的客戶能夠非常快速地採用和部署，然後開始從採用這些系統中獲得安全性和生產力提高方面的好處。

So it's really on a couple different dimensions that we think we're in a very good competitive position to really kind of disrupt the status quo of electromechanical kind of old-school style sensors and really bring in much more modern, much more cost-effective, and much higher-performing systems.

因此，從幾個不同的角度來看，我們認為我們處於非常有利的競爭地位，可以真正打破機電式老式感測器的現狀，並真正引入更現代、更具成本效益和性能更高的系統。

Thank you, Glen. Next question. MicroVision is entering the military tech space. Today, you mentioned drones, aerial, and marine applications in the defense tech space. Are we pivoting away from LiDAR because we have limited success or do we have something valuable to offer? And how much dilution should shareholders expect from this?

謝謝你，格倫。下一個問題。MicroVision 正進軍軍事科技領域。今天，您提到了國防科技領域的無人機、航空和海洋應用。我們會放棄 LiDAR，因為我們取得的成功有限，還是因為我們可以提供一些有價值的東西？股東對此應該預期多少稀釋？

I'll take that. I think I'll answer the first half of it and then Anubhav, probably you can come and help with the solution part of it. First of all, I think we're expanding what we have. So as -- I think Anubhav has already mentioned, right, we don't expect big increases in our OpEx. And we're still promising that in the first half next year, we're going to have this very sophisticated drone demonstrator.

我會接受的。我想我會回答前半部分，然後 Anubhav，也許你可以來幫忙解決部分問題。首先，我認為我們正在擴大現有的資源。所以 - 我認為 Anubhav 已經提到過，我們預計營運支出不會大幅增加。我們仍然承諾，明年上半年我們將推出這款非常先進的無人機展示機。

So I think I want all of us to think about, all of the shareholders to think about it as we're doing more with the same set of resources, but we're optimizing what the market needs. So LiDAR still is a foundational sensor. It is why we're going to keep having an advantage. Let me give an example, and I've been thinking about this over the weekend.

所以我想讓我們所有人、所有股東都考慮這一點，因為我們用同樣的資源做更多的事情，但我們正在優化市場的需求。因此，LiDAR 仍然是一種基礎感測器。這就是我們能夠繼續保持優勢的原因。我舉個例子，週末我一直在思考這個問題。

So far, we do LiDAR, and you always think about autonomous vehicles on roads. We mentioned drones, and we'll talk about why we have adventure drones, but we also mentioned maritime. So we're going where the market is going in the military tech space if there's huge investments to automate watercrafts in maritime. Of course, we have to see, do we fit and do we offer anything new?

到目前為止，我們一直在做雷射雷達，而且你總是會想到道路上的自動駕駛汽車。我們提到了無人機，我們將討論為什麼我們有探險無人機，但我們也提到了航海。因此，如果對海上船舶自動化進行大量投資，我們就會順應軍事技術領域的市場發展方向。當然，我們必須看看，我們是否適合併且我們是否提供了任何新的東西？

So if you think about like any of us, let's say we had enough experience on our team that, says, you know what, enough ex-Navy SEALs that would say, you know what, let's make this product. They would always start, you know, they would need what? They would need some sort of like GNSS, we think about like some GPS, there could be IMU, there could be -- they need like vehicle automation systems, camera sensors, radar sensors, LiDAR sensors, microphones, they would have maps for like inland maps, right, that they have to navigate around, and all sorts of data archives. So these are the fundamental building blocks that any company in that space providing a prime, providing an autonomous boat to a DOD contract would need.

因此，如果你想想我們中的任何一個人，假設我們團隊有足夠的經驗，你知道嗎，有足夠多的前海豹突擊隊員會說，你知道嗎，讓我們製造這個產品吧。他們總是會開始，你知道，他們需要什麼？他們需要某種類似 GNSS 的東西，我們想到的是 GPS，可能還有 IMU，可能還有——他們需要車輛自動化系統、攝影機感測器、雷達感測器、LiDAR 感測器、麥克風，他們需要內陸地圖之類的地圖，對吧，他們必須圍繞這些地圖進行導航，以及各種數據檔案。因此，這些是該領域任何一家為國防部合約提供主要自主船舶的公司所需的基本組成部分。

All of them would take those inputs and put it into, let's call it a black box, like a sensor fusion black box, which is what we have. We provide the LiDAR that accelerates our path to take that construct and create a seamless database for them where our perception very quickly identifies key topics or key items in the field of view, which could be, obviously in this case, all the way around the boat, under the water as well, all combined, and allows them to have faster insights.

他們都會接受這些輸入並將其放入我們稱之為黑盒子的東西中，就像我們所擁有的感測器融合黑盒子一樣。我們提供雷射雷達，這加速了我們構建該結構的進程，並為他們創建了一個無縫數據庫，我們的感知可以非常快速地識別視野範圍內的關鍵主題或關鍵項目，顯然在這種情況下，這些主題或項目可能是船的周圍，也可能是水下，所有這些結合在一起，讓他們能夠更快地獲得洞察力。

So the same fundamentals we've been talking about that enable ADAS and autonomy with different sensors can be deployed in a completely different area. but the fundamental building blocks the company has. But there are other fundamental building blocks, like for example, we've never integrated anything with the sonar or like a microphone, right, or any kind of other, those kind of sensors. So we could build that. So we want to go find partnerships to demonstrate with our own technology what we have demonstrated and say like our construct, our real product is the software and hardware package that accelerates your adoption path. I can bring autonomy to you faster instead of you having to invent all of this. I have blocks already built out.

因此，我們一直在談論的利用不同感測器實現 ADAS 和自主性的相同基本原理可以部署在完全不同的領域，但公司擁有基本建置模組。但還有其他基本構建模組，例如，我們從未將任何東西與聲納或麥克風或任何其他類型的傳感器整合在一起。所以我們可以建造它。因此，我們希望尋找合作夥伴，利用我們自己的技術來展示我們已經展示的內容，就像我們的構造一樣，我們的真正產品是可以加速您的採用路徑的軟體和硬體包。我可以更快地為你帶來自主權，而不是你必須發明這一切。我已經建好積木了。

So I would say that we're expanding with the business that we have. We don't see the OpEx going up, and we're going to demonstrate it publicly. So I would not say it's pivoting. It's expanding the product lines that we have in the military tech. But what we have applies to all three areas. Of course, terrestrial, everybody on this call knows a lot about it. We've been talking a lot about it. Drone is something that's interesting. The nice thing about drones are they are up in the air where there's not that much traffic, but there's also not that many roads, so the rules are different. So you can apply autonomy at a faster pace and demonstrate something.

所以我想說我們正在擴大現有的業務。我們沒有看到營運支出上升，我們將公開證明這一點。所以我不會說它正在轉變。它正在擴大我們在軍事技術領域的產品線。但我們所擁有的適用於所有三個領域。當然，對於地面而言，參加這次電話會議的每個人都對此了解很多。我們已經討論過很多次了。無人機是一件有趣的事。無人機的優點在於它們在空中飛行，那裡沒有那麼多交通，但道路也不多，所以規則也不同。這樣你就可以更快地運用自主權並展示一些東西。

And the thing that Glen's talked about in developing these real-time maps, this is actually a really important thing. Remember, if any of us were dropped into someplace we don't know, the first thing you need is a map, and your map could be old because things could have changed after a rainstorm or something. But being able to, in a very cheap manner, create your own high-resolution map. It's the very first step before any mission can be deployed. So that's what we're gonna demonstrate in multiple drones working together. And of course, expand it further to maritime.

格倫談到的開發這些即時地圖的事情實際上是一件非常重要的事情。請記住，如果我們中的任何一個人被帶到一個我們不熟悉的地方，你首先需要的就是一張地圖，而你的地圖可能很舊，因為暴雨或其他原因之後情況可能會改變。但能夠以非常便宜的方式創建您自己的高解析度地圖。這是部署任何任務之前的第一步。這就是我們要示範的多架無人機協同工作的情況。當然，還會進一步擴展到海運領域。

But Anubhav, you want to handle the dilution question?

但是 Anubhav，你想處理稀釋問題嗎？

Yeah, no, I think that's right, Sumit. So I think in terms of dilution, I think I want to make sure our shareholders understand the model here. I don't think the model is to become a full solution provider where you're trying to become the Auroras or a fully autonomous systems provider.

是的，不，我認為是對的，薩米特。因此，我認為就稀釋而言，我想確保我們的股東了解這裡的模型。我不認為該模型是要成為一個完整的解決方案提供商，你試圖成為 Auroras 或完全自主的系統提供者。

Essentially, I've heard the word partnerships here. We are partnering with the right company for the right mission. And I think that's what the key to this message is because what we're trying to come up with is the right pieces that they are missing because we have already built them out as individual blocks and how do we collaborate/partner with them to deliver these specific missions.

本質上，我在這裡聽到了合作夥伴關係這個詞。我們正在與合適的公司合作完成合適的使命。我認為這就是這個訊息的關鍵，因為我們試圖找出他們所缺少的正確部分，因為我們已經將它們建構成單獨的模組，以及我們如何與他們合作/合作來完成這些特定的任務。

As an example, we're not looking to become a drone company, but we're looking to partner with a drone company where we can enable the drones for a specific mission, like mapping. And that, from an expensive standpoint, yeah, it will add a few millions of dollars of expenses, but again, this is not pivoting away to become and own a full autonomous solution that will have to develop from scratch. I think that's not the business model that we're going into because that model, while it is actually very juicy, but as you can imagine, it requires billions of dollars of capital and really a lot of patience, which we have seen in some of the big companies which are chasing this dream.

舉個例子，我們不想成為一家無人機公司，而是想與一家無人機公司合作，讓無人機執行特定的任務，例如測繪。從昂貴的角度來看，是的，這將增加數百萬美元的開支，但這並不意味著要從頭開始開發一個完全自主的解決方案。我認為這不是我們要採用的商業模式，因為這種模式雖然確實非常誘人，但你可以想像，它需要數十億美元的資金和極大的耐心，我們已經在一些追逐這一夢想的大公司身上看到了這一點。

So I think that's why I want to be very clear that here we're trying to partner with some of the other companies where we can provide a solution that together becomes a comprehensive package for delivering a particular mission.

所以我想這就是為什麼我要非常清楚地表明，我們正試圖與其他一些公司合作，我們可以提供一個解決方案，共同成為一個完成特定任務的綜合方案。

All right, next question. What happened to the seven RFQs? The number was taken away from the Q2 press release. What is going on with these RFQs?

好的，下一個問題。七份 RFQ 怎麼樣了？該數字是從第二季新聞稿中刪除的。這些 RFQ 的情況怎麼樣？

Yeah, let me start off with that, and maybe, Glen, you can come back and add some more. Think about the RFQs as OEMs reformulating, which is they do quite often, every so often, where they reformulate what their really needs are.

是的，讓我從這個開始，也許，格倫，你可以回來再補充一些。把 RFQ 想像成 OEM 的重新制定，他們經常、時不時地這樣做，重新制定他們的真正需求。

So I think like we've been at MAVIN for a long period of time, and as we've always said, our go-to-market strategy is to really focus on not just making announcements, increasing our OpEx and not revenues coming in, is to go work with target OEMs that actually have a real product plan where we can connect. As you can imagine, as Anubhav has said, I've said, Glen has said, for OEMs, automotive OEMs, cost is always going to be number one. They want the highest technology, but cost is equally or even higher in the priority list. So they want to get at the right level.

所以我認為我們已經在 MAVIN 工作了很長一段時間，正如我們一直所說的那樣，我們的市場進入策略真正關注的不僅僅是發佈公告、增加我們的營運支出而不是收入，而是與實際上擁有我們可以聯繫的實際產品計劃的目標 OEM 合作。你可以想像，正如 Anubhav 所說，我說過，Glen 也說過，對於 OEM、汽車 OEM 來說，成本永遠是第一位的。他們想要最先進的技術，但成本在優先考慮的事項中也同樣重要，甚至更高。所以他們想要達到正確的水平。

So for the longest term, I would say MAVIN is some of the choices that have always been made of what's required for a long-range LiDAR. You want wide field of view, but you also want length. You want low power. It's just over-constrained problem. So yes, if you develop something, you provide it there. The cost is extremely high. The power is extremely high. The form factor is pretty high because the optical choices you have to make.

因此，從長遠來看，我認為 MAVIN 是遠程雷射雷達一直以來的選擇之一。您想要寬闊的視野，但您也想要長度。您想要低功率。這只是一個過度約束的問題。所以是的，如果你開發了某種東西，你就在那裡提供它。成本極為高昂。威力非常高。由於必須做出光學選擇，因此外形尺寸相當高。

So I would say these new RFQs, I think they're going to keep evolving, but I think they are starting to realize that there are other alternative ways to think about the problem that can be much more cost-competitive and meet and exceed their requirements. So to perhaps to deliver dynamic with LiDAR, imposing all those requirements for one sensor and then expecting to be super cheap is a fool's errand because every OEM and every award that they've done so far, that has never worked out.

所以我想說這些新的 RFQ，我認為它們會不斷發展，但我認為他們開始意識到還有其他替代方法來思考這個問題，這些方法可以更具成本競爭力並滿足並超越他們的要求。因此，也許要透過 LiDAR 實現動態，對一個感測器施加所有這些要求，然後期望超級便宜是愚蠢的，因為到目前為止，每個 OEM 和他們所做的每個獎項都沒有成功。

I think, like -- I'll let Glen talk about it, but I think since he has so much experience from Tier 1s and OEMs, he sort of guided us toward what's the right product. And maybe we can introduce it now, Glen, before we give all the details, like a little teaser. So in IAA, we can give the full blow. Perhaps you can join.

我認為，就像 - 我會讓 Glen 談論它，但我認為由於他擁有來自 Tier 1 和 OEM 的豐富經驗，他可以指導我們找到正確的產品。格倫，也許我們現在可以先介紹一下，然後再給出所有細節，就像一個小預告片。所以在 IAA 中，我們可以給予全力打擊。或許你可以加入。

Yeah, just to touch on the whole OEM quoting process and status, as we talked about in Investor Day as well as the prior earnings call, the auto OEMs in general, broadly speaking, were kind of reformulating their strategies around Level 3, the adoption and the use of LiDAR for Level 3, and how that would look. And that's been an ongoing process, it continues, and I think what we're seeing now really two things.

是的，就整個 OEM 的報價流程和狀態而言，正如我們在投資者日以及之前的財報電話會議上所討論的那樣，總體而言，汽車 OEM 正在重新制定圍繞 3 級的戰略，以及 3 級 LiDAR 的採用和使用，以及它將如何呈現。這是一個持續不斷的過程，我認為我們現在看到的實際上是兩件事。

One is more of a rational approach around this in terms of which platforms are they really going to deploy Level 3 on, how are they going to do it, the timing associated with that. So the quality of the RFQs has improved as well as, I think, from my perspective, our confidence at the RFQ that there's real volume at the other end of that process. So that's for me that's a good thing. LiDAR is not at the maturity level or at the commodity level as a brake controller or a radio, and where the purchasing process for those types of components is very predictable. It's just a very well-tried and true process, and the outcomes are pretty predictable, and the timing of that is predictable.

其中一個是採取更理性的方法，即他們真正要在哪些平台上部署 Level 3，如何部署，以及相關的時間表。因此，RFQ 的品質得到了提高，而且我認為，從我的角度來看，我們對 RFQ 的信心在於，該流程的另一端有真正的數量。所以這對我來說是一件好事。LiDAR 尚未達到像煞車控制器或無線電那樣的成熟度或商品水平，並且這些類型組件的採購過程非常可預測。這只是一個經過充分驗證的過程，其結果是相當可預測的，而且時間也是可預測的。

LiDAR with a Level 3 functionality is still very much an engineered product and a tech product where the OEMs. They're still kind of feeling their way through that, but they're making progress. The RFQs that we're involved with now, like I said, have higher quality. They're more confident in the ability for those things to really turn into real programs and revenue. So that's the exciting part of it.

具有 3 級功能的 LiDAR 仍然是一種工程產品，也是由 OEM 生產的科技產品。他們仍在摸索，但正在取得進展。正如我所說，我們現在參與的 RFQ 品質更高。他們更有信心將這些事情真正轉化為真正的專案和收入。這就是令人興奮的部分。

Now, I'm going to touch on something that is very near and dear to my heart because with my history with radar, with vision systems, and other safety-related systems, or just new technology in general, ultimately, for broad adoption, the costs have to come down. We've heard a lot of discussion around, well, costs will come down when LiDAR volumes go up.

現在，我要談一些我非常關心的事情，因為根據我接觸雷達、視覺系統和其他安全相關係統的經驗，或者只是一般的新技術，最終，為了廣泛採用，成本必須降低。我們聽到了很多關於 LiDAR 數量增加時成本就會下降的討論。

Well, those volumes won't go up until costs come down. It's actually the other way around. And that was very true with vision systems. It's very true with radar systems when we first introduced those. In automotive 20 years-plus ago, it took a long time for those cost curves to come down, but when the product cost comes down, that's when volumes come. You enable that through lower-cost solutions.

嗯，除非成本下降，否則產量不會上升。事實恰恰相反。對於視覺系統來說，這確實如此。當我們首次引入雷達系統時，情況確實如此。在 20 多年前的汽車產業，成本曲線花了很長時間才下降，但當產品成本下降時，產量就會上升。您可以透過低成本的解決方案實現這一點。

And so, for us, and what our focus has been on since certainly over the past year and then really intensified since I joined in April, has been on for auto, what's the right strategy there to drive cost down but not the sacrifice of performance? And really looking at it from a vehicle or a system architecture level, not thinking just as, hey, we provide a sensor, but we provide a system architecture, a system solution.

那麼，對我們來說，自從我四月份加入以來，我們在過去一年中一直關注的重點一直是汽車，那麼在不犧牲性能的情況下降低成本的正確策略是什麼？從車輛或系統架構層面來看，不要只想著，嘿，我們提供感測器，而是提供系統架構、系統解決方案。

And we break the problem down into not just one super sensor, but rather how do you break that down into smaller elements and this is what we did with radar. It's what we've done in vision where we have a different architecture and maybe not just one super sensor but rather multiple sensors. And that's what we're going to talk about in the upcoming IAA where we believe we have a much more efficient system architecture that delivers better performance, smaller packaging, lower power consumption, and ultimately will enable the OEMs to offer these features at lower total system cost of the vehicle.

我們不僅將問題分解為一個超級感測器，而且還將其分解為更小的元素，這就是我們對雷達所做的。這就是我們在視覺領域所做的，我們有一個不同的架構，可能不只是一個超級感測器，而是多個感測器。這就是我們將在即將舉行的 IAA 上討論的內容，我們相信我們擁有更高效的系統架構，可以提供更好的性能、更小的封裝、更低的功耗，並最終使 OEM 能夠以更低的車輛總系統成本提供這些功能。

So really excited about what we can do there, the technologies we have that enable this, and then as well unveiling that really at EAA -- or IAA in early September. So a lot more to come here. But this is, you know, we're literally redefining LiDAR for automotive. What's been there, what's the approach that's been taken prior to this, I think, has led to very low adoption rates, very low penetration. We're redefining it. We're going to enable it to be much more broadly applied, ultimately down to Level 2 in standard data systems. That's what we're trying to do.

我真的很高興我們能在那裡做些什麼，我們擁有實現這一點的技術，然後在 EAA 或 9 月初的 IAA 上揭曉這一點。還有很多事情要發生。但你知道，我們實際上是在重新定義汽車光達。我認為，在此之前，人們採取了什麼方法，導致了非常低的採用率和非常低的滲透率。我們正在重新定義它。我們將使其得到更廣泛的應用，最終達到標準資料系統的 2 級。這正是我們正在努力做的事情。

All right, Sumit, I'll turn it over to you and Anubhav.

好的，Sumit，我將把它交給你和 Anubhav。

No, thanks, Glen. This was very helpful. I guess there's a follow-up question here. Do you anticipate any high-volume automotive production RFQs to be awarded in 2025? Or are the timelines being pushed to at least 2026?

不，謝謝，格倫。這非常有幫助。我想這裡有個後續問題。您是否預計 2025 年將授予任何大批量汽車生產 RFQ？或者時間表至少被推遲到 2026 年？

No, I think -- here's how I would answer that, because predicting OEM sourcing timings can always be tricky because that's not in our control. And other factors of the OEM may influence that. We're actively engaged in quotes now that could very well be completed yet well before the end of the year. That certainly would be our hope. And so, that's how we're behaving.

不，我想——我會這樣回答，因為預測 OEM 採購時間總是很棘手，因為這不在我們的控制範圍內。OEM 的其他因素也可能會影響這一點。我們現在正在積極參與報價，很可能在年底前完成。這當然是我們的希望。這就是我們的行為方式。

What I would tell you though is that quote timing may shift around a little bit. It may slide out to '26 as they finalize their plans, but ultimately It's not shifting out the launch dates or the introductory dates. And depending on the OEM, that's still as early as '28. Small volumes coming more into '29, higher volumes.

不過我想告訴你的是，報價時間可能會有一點變化。隨著他們最終確定計劃，它可能會推遲到 26 年，但最終不會改變發布日期或介紹日期。而根據 OEM 的不同，最早也要到 28 年。自進入 29 年以來，小批量產量逐漸增加。

So we aren't really seeing the launch timing move. The sourcing timing may shift around. But like we talked about yesterday and earlier, really that next generation of platforms we see still happening in that maybe as early as '28, '29 timeframe for sure, and then '30 really hitting higher volumes.

所以我們其實並沒有看到發佈時間的變化。採購時間可能會有所變動。但就像我們昨天和之前談到的，我們看到的下一代平台確實仍會出現，也許最早在 28 年、29 年的時間範圍內，然後在 30 年真正達到更高的數量。

Thanks, Glen. Next question. MicroVision has not won any deals, and other companies have since made changes to their products. Are we at risk of having outdated or inferior technology? What are we doing to remain best in class?

謝謝，格倫。下一個問題。MicroVision 尚未贏得任何交易，其他公司也對其產品進行了修改。我們是否面臨技術過時或低劣的風險？我們正在做什麼來保持最佳水平？

All right, let me start with this. So I think if you think about industrial, our MOVIA L with our software is a refreshed product at a very competitive price with integrated software. I think that's our path to revenue immediately.

好的，讓我從這個開始。因此我認為，如果您考慮工業，我們的 MOVIA L 及其軟體是一款更新的產品，具有整合軟體，價格極具競爭力。我認為這是我們立即獲得收入的途徑。

I think it's a very fair question. I think the way you think about it, it's actually working really perfectly. But think about some of the other LiDAR companies, what they're saying and what you're hearing from our call is there's nuance, but it is clear how we're thinking about our strategy.

我認為這是一個非常公平的問題。我認為按照你的想法，它實際上運行得非常完美。但想想其他一些 LiDAR 公司，他們所說的話和您從我們的電話會議中聽到的有細微差別，但我們對策略的思考方式是清晰的。

I think, as Glen described, that there will be, instead of thinking about a complicated set of requirements and shoving it into one single box, It's not the right strategy. It makes sense to have multiple sensors, software, architecture. Think about the entire car, how can you simplify it, and their overall cost will come down. In that sense, we are evolving our product with MOVIA S, with MAVIN, to give them the right tool for the right problem.

我認為，正如格倫所描述的那樣，不去思考一組複雜的要求並將其塞進一個盒子裡，這不是正確的策略。擁有多個感測器、軟體和架構是有意義的。想想整個汽車，如何簡化它，它們的整體成本就會下降。從這個意義上講，我們正在透過 MOVIA S 和 MAVIN 改進我們的產品，為他們提供解決正確問題的正確工具。

Okay? So think about that as more of an evolution instead of like other, of our competition that have like completely stopped the development and gone to a completely different product, right? We're still MEMS-based technology. We're still using 905 laser. We're still time of flight. So all that construct is the same. But instead of a dynamic new LiDAR being shoved into a single sensor with a wide field of view, think about it being broken down into some different sensors that cover it, but still bringing costs down, not going up. That's the interesting part that we'll talk about and demonstrate at IAA.

好的？因此，請將其視為一種進化，而不是像我們的其他競爭對手那樣完全停止開發並轉向完全不同的產品，對嗎？我們仍然是基於MEMS的技術。我們仍在使用 905 雷射。我們仍在飛行時間。所以所有的構造都是一樣的。但是，不要將動態新型 LiDAR 塞進具有寬視野的單一感測器中，而是考慮將其分解成覆蓋它的一些不同的感測器，但仍然可以降低成本，而不是上升。這是我們將在 IAA 上討論和展示的有趣的部分。

When you think about other awards that have happened, I just want to give context. I congratulate them. It's great. We choose not to do those because it increases the OpEx. But there is no guarantee you're going to have any follow-on volume, right? We certainly want to get some validation, but we have products that we can show that should be able to get deals done.

當您想到已經頒發的其他獎項時，我只是想提供背景資訊。我向他們表示祝賀。這很棒。我們選擇不這樣做，因為這會增加營運成本。但誰也不能保證你會有任何後續銷量，對嗎？我們當然希望獲得一些認可，但我們有可以展示的產品，應該能夠達成交易。

You hear other things like, people are working on economy scale, they're going to put everything on a single chip, laser on chip, and so on. So all these words are thrown out there, but none of them are amounting to guaranteed revenues from OEMs because the OEM products are far away and most of them are really seeking NRE.

您還可以聽到其他消息，例如，人們正在努力實現經濟規模，他們將把所有東西都放在一個晶片上，將雷射放在晶片上，等等。儘管這些說法都是空口無憑的，但它們都無法保證從 OEM 獲得收入，因為 OEM 產品距離很遠，而且大多數 OEM 真正尋求的是 NRE。

So I think like, I totally appreciate your question about some has won deals. They have evolved their product. Do we have to evolve the product? I think we are -- they're not evolving products. They're going to the next generation. I would say we are evolving the product by breaking the problem down, keeping costs in mind, integration in mind. Did I miss anything? Do you want to add more?

所以我認為，我非常感謝您關於一些已贏得交易的問題。他們已經改進了他們的產品。我們必須改進產品嗎？我認為——它們不是不斷發展的產品。他們正在走向下一代。我想說的是，我們透過分解問題、考慮成本和整合來改進產品。我遺漏了什麼嗎？您想要添加更多嗎？

Yeah. The thing I would add is a lot of times you'll hear people talk about technology, and then generally speaking, they're talking about the hardware component. And as Sumit mentioned, we have a very robust roadmap and have had a roadmap and have been looking at that for those three markets that we talked about, industrial, automotive, and defense. And so we have a very robust hardware roadmap that I think puts us into an industry-leading position.

是的。我想補充的是，很多時候你會聽到人們談論技術，但一般來說，他們談論的是硬體組件。正如 Sumit 所提到的，我們有一個非常強大的路線圖，並且一直在研究我們所討論的三個市場，即工業、汽車和國防。因此，我們擁有非常強大的硬體路線圖，我認為這將使我們處於行業領先地位。

But along with that, and this is really critical, we have a very good software roadmap, including how do we incorporate the very latest software capabilities using machine learning, using AI, using GenAI for not just the end product functionality, but also for how we develop that product. And all of this to deliver best performance but at lower total system cost.

但除此之外，這真的很關鍵，我們有一個非常好的軟體路線圖，包括如何利用機器學習、人工智慧、GenAI 來整合最新的軟體功能，不僅用於最終產品功能，還用於我們如何開發該產品。所有這些都是為了以較低的總系統成本提供最佳效能。

I always enjoy -- personally, I always keep an eye very much on the competitive landscape and like to see how LiDAR is progressing, more broadly speaking, but I feel very good about the direction we're heading, the speed at which we're heading in that direction, and then the approach that we're taking and the roadmap that we have to support that.

就我個人而言，我一直非常關注競爭格局，並且喜歡觀察 LiDAR 的進展情況，更廣泛地說，但我對我們的前進方向、我們朝著這個方向前進的速度以及我們採取的方法和我們必須支持這一點的路線圖感到非常滿意。

Thanks, Glen. Next question. From this earnings call, I gather that MicroVision is transforming from just a LiDAR company into an autonomous systems company. How does the future look for LiDAR companies moving up the chain?

謝謝，格倫。下一個問題。從這次財報電話會議中，我了解到 MicroVision 正在從一家 LiDAR 公司轉型為自動駕駛系統公司。光達公司向上游發展的未來前景如何？

Let me take that question because I think this is related to the dilution question earlier. Like I mentioned in my previous remarks, I don't think this requires huge amounts of investments or significantly improving or adding to the cost structure of the company because, like I mentioned, you're hearing the word partnerships.

讓我來回答這個問題，因為我認為這與之前的稀釋問題有關。正如我在之前的評論中提到的那樣，我認為這不需要大量投資或顯著改善或增加公司的成本結構，因為正如我提到的那樣，您聽到了合作夥伴關係這個詞。

And again, the idea here is the blocks that we already have, how do we fit them in the puzzle? which other providers are looking for and then present a complete package to the other parties and customers. And that's why I mentioned that, again, we're not looking to compete with the Aurora's or full autonomous systems company where they are providing the system solution end-to-end because that's a very expensive and a very long process. We're not looking to become that. What we're looking to become is a company that enables some of these smaller players to deliver autonomy to the industrial customers as well as defense tech customers from the end market standpoint.

再說一次，這裡的想法是，我們已經有了積木，我們要如何將它們放入拼圖中？其他供應商正在尋找什麼，然後向其他方和客戶提供完整的方案。這就是為什麼我再次提到，我們不想與 Aurora 或完全自主系統公司競爭，他們提供端到端的系統解決方案，因為這是一個非常昂貴且非常漫長的過程。我們不想成為那樣的人。我們希望成為一家能夠讓一些小型企業從終端市場的角度為工業客戶和國防技術客戶提供自主權的公司。

And I think the future for LiDAR companies moving up the chain, what we're simply working on right now is integrating multimodal solutions, so LiDAR becomes one of the components of the sensor suite that we're going to be offering along with our full-stack software. And then it could be combined with, as Glen mentioned, radar or cameras and then you present that solution with that software that needs to be integrated at the customer's end. That's the future that we're shooting for, and this would not require huge upsizing of the cost structure that we have right now. It will require some investment.

我認為 LiDAR 公司未來將向上游發展，我們現在正在努力整合多模式解決方案，因此 LiDAR 將成為我們將與全端軟體一起提供的感測器套件的組成部分之一。然後，正如 Glen 所提到的，它可以與雷達或攝影機結合，然後您可以使用需要在客戶端整合的軟體來提供該解決方案。這就是我們所追求的未來，而這並不需要我們目前的成本結構有巨大的改變。這需要一些投資。

I think, again, we have been very clear in our communications that, again, it will require some investment because, as Sumit and Glen mentioned, this does include or require some of our engineers to spend time customizing the solution for some of these applications. But again, it doesn't mean that the OpEx is going to go to 3x or 4x. So that's not what we're looking to do. We're looking to keep the OpEx where it is relatively at the same level, maybe add a few expenses here and there. But that's the vision or that's the vision the company is shooting for and executing on.

我認為，我們在溝通中已經非常明確地表示，這將需要一些投資，因為正如 Sumit 和 Glen 提到的那樣，這確實包括或需要我們的一些工程師花時間為其中一些應用程式客製化解決方案。但這並不意味著營運支出將增加 3 倍或 4 倍。所以這不是我們想要做的。我們希望將營運支出保持在相對相同的水平，也許會在這裡或那裡增加一些費用。但這就是願景，或者說這就是公司正在努力追求和執行的願景。

Next question. Has MicroVision recently issued more shares? Management said that they will not need to issue shares in the near term. And maybe the next related question is, what is the plan for making payments in September for our debt with high-trail capital? Do you anticipate any near-term needed for additional financing or dilution?

下一個問題。MicroVision 最近是否發行了更多股票？管理層表示，短期內不需要發行股票。也許下一個相關的問題是，我們 9 月用高額資本償還債務的計畫是什麼？您是否預計近期需要額外融資或股權稀釋？

So again, I think I want to clarify, I don't think any company, any LiDAR company which says that they're not going to issue shares or raise more capital, I think it's very evident that that statement just cannot be true because at the end of the day, all LiDAR companies are going through this evolution, where they are -- where they have to be cost structure efficient while choosing the path that will get them to the ultimate destination where they want to be one of the last few companies standing and have moved up, graduated the value chain having software as a very important component of their offerings.

所以，我想再次澄清一下，我認為沒有任何公司，任何一家 LiDAR 公司會說他們不會發行股票或籌集更多資金，我認為很明顯這種說法是不正確的，因為歸根結底，所有的 LiDAR 公司都在經歷這種演變，他們必須提高成本結構效率，同時選擇一條能夠讓他們到達最終目的地的道路，他們希望在成為最後幾家市場的發展中非常重要。

So that's that. So obviously we did sell some shares because I think one of the main reasons why what I mentioned in my call as well that we have become an attractive investment for several large financial institutions as well because of the stability and the longer runway the company has. Because again, you can imagine any big investor would really want to feel safe about their investment when they know the company has resources to execute the business strategy.

就是這樣。所以顯然我們確實出售了一些股票，因為我認為我在電話會議中提到的主要原因之一是，由於公司的穩定性和更長的運行時間，我們已經成為幾家大型金融機構的有吸引力的投資對象。因為再一次，你可以想像，當任何大投資者知道公司有資源來執行業務策略時，他們都會真的希望對自己的投資感到安全。

Now, I think where the skills of the management teams at each of these companies will be judged by, how do they raise capital and how do they navigate these capital markets to make or execute the most efficient capital strategy to get to the end point here? And I think as we have demonstrated in the past history of the company, that we have been very prudent and very opportunistic in raising capital. And again, I continue to extend that strategy and vision to make sure that MicroVision is fully capitalized at all times to execute its business vision, while at the same time being pragmatic and practical of the dilution for the shareholders as well.

現在，我認為這些公司的管理團隊的技能將根據以下標準來評判：他們如何籌集資金，如何駕馭這些資本市場，制定或執行最有效的資本策略，以達到最終目標？我認為，正如我們在公司過去的歷史中所表明的那樣，我們在籌集資金方面非常謹慎，並且非常注重機會。再次，我將繼續擴展這個策略和願景，以確保 MicroVision 始終擁有充足的資本來實現其業務願景，同時也務實地為股東減少股權稀釋。

The plan for making the payments in September. So, like I said, we have adequate amounts of cash to start. So, our first payment is going to be due on September 1, and we expect to make that payment in cash. And if the stock price and the market conditions are favorable, and if the holder, Hytrel, elects, because they have the option to elect to take it in stock. If that happens, then obviously we will have to put those shares.

九月付款計劃。所以，就像我說的，我們有足夠的現金來啟動。因此，我們的第一筆付款將於 9 月 1 日到期，我們希望以現金支付。如果股票價格和市場條件有利，並且持有人 Hytrel 選擇，因為他們可以選擇將其作為股票持有。如果發生這種情況，那麼顯然我們必須拋售這些股份。

But like I said, we'll be looking to optimize the way we are putting cash on the company's balance sheet for us to be able to execute the vision. Because like I said, the skill, of this game is to how do you sort of navigate these markets by choosing the most effective, cost-effective path to raise capital until you get to the point where only a handful of players are there, and the revenues have scaled and there's cash flow breakevens.

但就像我說的，我們將尋求優化將現金放入公司資產負債表的方式，以便我們能夠實現這一願景。因為就像我說的，這個遊戲的技巧在於如何透過選擇最有效、最具成本效益的融資方式來駕馭這些市場，直​​到只有少數玩家參與，收入擴大，現金流實現收支平衡。

Next question. What military revenue opportunities are you targeting? How should shareholders think about the revenue from this industry in 2025 and 2026? and what could be the expected impact on the expenses of the company. Maybe you want to talk about this?

下一個問題。您瞄準的是哪些軍事收入機會？股東該如何看待2025年和2026年該產業的收入？以及預計會對公司費用產生什麼影響。也許你想談論這個？

Yeah, I think about the military revenue opportunities. Think about partnerships. Partnerships mean that you have to demonstrate your technology so there's some sort of co-development and everybody has their architecture they're dealing with right now. They have fielded products. They have contracts within the military right now with the DOD.

是的，我考慮的是軍事收入機會。考慮合作關係。合作意味著你必須展示你的技術，這樣才能進行某種形式的共同開發，而每個人都有他們現在正在處理的架構。他們已經推出了產品。他們目前與國防部簽訂了軍事合約。

And we are targeting specifically people that need an upgrade on their solution. And not just that we send them a LiDAR, we try to give them a more holistic product. Certainly, with products that are off-road vehicles that are doing some sort of logistics or all sorts of other things in terrestrial space, that's something that we can demonstrate. Find the right partner that is willing to work with us to not just buy the LiDAR but also work with us to see what the advantage of our sensor fusion technology is.

我們的目標客戶正是那些需要升級解決方案的人。我們不僅向他們發送了 LiDAR，還嘗試為他們提供更全面的產品。當然，對於在陸地空間進行某種物流或其他各種工作的越野車產品，我們可以進行演示。找到合適的合作夥伴，他們不僅願意與我們合作，購買 LiDAR，還願意與我們合作，了解我們的感測器融合技術的優勢。

When it comes to drones and when it comes to maritime products, I think we may have a better opportunity there to showcase our technology and then expand from there. But in all cases, you start with a partnership, and then after you've proven yourself and you can be a trusted partner to them, that is, got components that are not susceptible to or they're not sensitive to anything from China, which we are. You know, successfully, we could demonstrate that. We have a robust LiDAR product line. That will enable us to think about other next steps beyond that.

當談到無人機和海事產品時，我認為我們可能有更好的機會展示我們的技術，然後從那裡擴展。但在所有情況下，你都是從建立合作關係開始的，然後在你證明了自己之後，你就可以成為他們值得信賴的合作夥伴，也就是說，你擁有的零部件不會受到中國任何產品的影響，或者他們對中國的任何產品都不敏感，而我們就是這樣的。你知道，我們可以成功證明這一點。我們擁有強大的 LiDAR 產品線。這將使我們能夠思考下一步的其他措施。

I think that's the best way to think about it, you know, from a recurring revenue, you know, when their products go into market. Glen and Anubhav, you guys want to add something to this?

我認為這是最好的思考方式，你知道，從經常性收入來看，當他們的產品進入市場時。Glen 和 Anubhav，你們想補充一些內容嗎？

Yeah, maybe (multiple speakers). Go for it.

是的，也許吧（多位發言者）大膽試試吧。

I'm sorry, Anubhav. Yeah, just to maybe add a little bit to what you said, Sumit, because you covered it very nicely. I think, ultimately, as we've talked to, in particular, the terrestrial, the MAV market, they're looking for much more robust systems that are easier to package on the vehicle, that are incredibly robust, not just dust-resistant or temporary a light spray of water resistant, but rather really, really aggressive and robust systems that can withstand high-pressure wash, can withstand all environmental conditions, can be sprayed and cleaned off, and then we'll work reliably.

對不起，阿努巴夫。是的，我只是想補充一點你所說的，Sumit，因為你講得非常好。我認為，最終，正如我們所討論的，特別是陸地、微型飛行器市場，他們正在尋找更堅固的系統，這些系統更容易封裝在飛行器上，非常堅固，不僅僅是防塵或暫時防輕微噴水，而是真正非常強大和堅固的系統，可以承受高壓沖洗，可以承受所有環境條件，可以噴灑和清洗，然後​​我們就可以可靠地工作。

And that's exactly what we do. And so it's been really fun to talk to some of these OEMs about how our solution can really help them and make their solution more robust and more effective in the field. So it's a great opportunity for us, in addition to what we've talked about with drones and everything around enabling autonomy.

這正是我們所做的。因此，與一些 OEM 討論我們的解決方案如何真正幫助他們，並​​使他們的解決方案在該領域更加穩健和有效，這真的很有趣。因此，除了我們談論的無人機和實現自主的一切之外，這對我們來說是一個很好的機會。

Thanks, Glen. And let me add a few things here. So I think I want our shareholders to think about it in two steps. Step one is maybe sort of have a broader view on the defense tech industry, right? Because, again, clearly, if you guys follow or if you start following this defense tech space, this defense tech space is having its what I call as the auto tech moment four years ago. What I mean by that is, four years ago, if you recall, auto tech companies were really flying high because the demand and the strategic importance of these companies to the future of our economy and our progress was very important and very critical. And I think that's why, if you look at the same moment is now being experienced in the defense tech industry, especially in some of these opportunities, this maritime and this airborne areas that we mentioned where there's a lot of investment going into. Why? Because it's of strategic importance.

謝謝，格倫。讓我在這裡補充幾點。所以我希望我們的股東分兩步驟來考慮這個問題。第一步可能是對國防科技產業有更廣泛的了解，對嗎？因為，再說一次，很明顯，如果你們關注或開始關注這個國防技術領域，那麼這個國防技術領域四年前就經歷了我所說的汽車技術時刻。我的意思是，如果你還記得的話，四年前，汽車科技公司確實發展得非常迅速，因為這些公司對我們經濟的未來和進步的需求和戰略重要性非常重要，非常關鍵。我認為這就是為什麼，如果你看看國防科技產業現在經歷的同樣的時刻，特別是在我們提到的一些機會中，這些海上和空中領域，有大量的投資投入。為什麼？因為它具有戰略重要性。

And I think in terms of revenue, while the revenue may not be big in 2025, the strategic importance of that collaboration is going to be far more bigger than the revenue quantum. And what I mean by that is because as the geopolitical world plays out on the international stage. It becomes even more important for our economy and our military might to increase significantly and protect us from any and building our defense capabilities. And that's sort of what you're seeing in this market. And hence what some of the projects that we have described are some of projects with very high strategic value where you become a very critical player in the ecosystem delivering that capability. And that's why the value of being a very important player in that ecosystem is far more important than just the revenue quantum.

我認為就收入而言，雖然 2025 年的收入可能不多，但這種合作的策略重要性將遠大於收入量。我這樣說是因為隨著地緣政治世界在國際舞台上的發展。大幅提升我們的經濟和軍事實力、保護我們免受任何損害並建立我們的國防能力變得更加重要。這就是您在這個市場上看到的。因此，我們所描述的一些項目具有非常高的策略價值，在這些項目中，您將成為提供該能力的生態系統中非常關鍵的參與者。這就是為什麼成為生態系統中非常重要的參與者的價值遠比收入數量更重要。

So that's how I want investors to think about this strategically. And remember, here, the volumes are never going to be millions of units, as in the automotive, but like I mentioned, it's going to be fewer units, but the ability to deliver a full software solution, which, for example, the OEMs, as we mentioned, OEMs are not looking for a full software solution, while here we are enabling to deliver our full software stack for these mission-specific applications.

所以我希望投資人從策略角度來考慮這個問題。請記住，這裡的數量永遠不會像汽車那樣達到數百萬台，但正如我提到的那樣，數量會更少，但能夠提供完整的軟體解決方案，例如，正如我們所提到的，原始設備製造商 (OEM) 並不尋求完整的軟體解決方案，而在這裡，我們能夠為這些特定任務的應用程式提供完整的軟體堆疊。

The second part is, again, the expected impact of the expenses of the company. Like I mentioned, we're not looking to double or triple our expenses. We're simply looking to maybe add some more expenses, but these expenses would be to prove out the value of our solutions, our LiDAR and multimodal solutions sensor suite with our software stack to the specific provider, the primes or the sub primes who are looking to deliver these mission-specific applications to the military for the country.

第二部分同樣是公司費用的預期影響。正如我所提到的，我們不想讓我們的開支增加一倍或兩倍。我們只是想增加一些費用，但這些費用將用於向特定供應商、主要供應商或次要供應商證明我們的解決方案、我們的 LiDAR 和多模式解決方案感測器套件以及我們的軟體堆疊的價值，這些供應商希望為國家軍方提供這些特定任務的應用程式。

So that's sort of how I want our shareholders to think about both the top line and the strategic importance and the expense profile of the company going forward.

所以，我希望我們的股東能夠這樣考慮公司未來的營收、策略重要性和費用狀況。

I think we have gone 10 minutes overboard. So again, I again would like to thank everybody, our shareholders, for jumping on this call, and we are looking forward to share with you the next update very soon and we look forward to share more progress at the IAA in Munich next month. Thank you again for joining us on our second quarter call.

我認為我們已經過了 10 分鐘。因此，我再次感謝大家，我們的股東，參加這次電話會議，我們期待很快與大家分享下一次更新，我們期待下個月在慕尼黑的 IAA 上分享更多進展。再次感謝您參加我們的第二季電話會議。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference. All parties may disconnect and have a great day.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。各方均可斷開連接並度過美好的一天。