MicroVision Inc (MVIS) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and welcome to the Microvision third quarter, 2024 financial and operating results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

下午好，歡迎參加 Microvision 2024 年第三季財務與營運績效電話會議。（操作員說明）

During that time, please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Drew Markham. Please go ahead.

在此期間，請注意此事件正在被記錄。我現在想把會議交給德魯·馬卡姆。請繼續。

Thank you, Mike. Good afternoon. I'm here today with our CEO Sumit Sharma; and our CFO, Anubhav Verma. Following their prepared remarks, we will open the call to questions.

謝謝你，麥克。午安.今天我和我們的執行長蘇米特夏爾馬 (Sumit Sharma) 一起來到這裡；以及我們的財務長 Anubhav Verma。在他們準備好的發言之後，我們將開始提問。

Please note that some of the information you will hear in today's discussion will include forward-looking statements including but not limited to, statements regarding our customer and partner engagement, cash liquidity and the impacts of our convertible note financing, market landscape, opportunity, and program volume and timing, product development and performance, comparisons to our competitors, product sales and future demand, business and strategic opportunities, projections of future operations and financial results, availability of funds, as well as statements containing words like intend believe, expect, plan, and other similar expressions. These statements are not guarantees of future performance. Actual results could differ materially from the future results implied or expressed in the forward-looking statements.

請注意，您在今天的討論中將聽到的一些資訊將包括前瞻性陳述，包括但不限於有關我們的客戶和合作夥伴參與、現金流動性以及我們的可轉換票據融資的影響、市場格局、機會和計劃數量和時間表、產品開發和績效、與競爭對手的比較、產品銷售和未來需求、業務和戰略機會、未來運營和財務業績的預測、資金的可用性以及包含“打算相信”、“期望”等詞語的陳述計劃以及其他類似的表達方式。這些陳述並不是對未來業績的保證。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中暗示或表達的未來結果有重大差異。

We encourage you to review our sec filings including our most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on form 10-Q filings describe risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied or expressed in our forward-looking statements. All forward-looking statements are made as of the date of this call and except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update this information.

我們鼓勵您查看我們的sec 文件，包括我們最近提交的10-K 表年度報告和10-Q 表季度報告，其中描述了可能導致我們的實際結果與我們的前瞻性報告中暗示或表達的結果存在重大差異的風險因素。所有前瞻性陳述均自本次電話會議之日起作出，除非法律要求，否則我們不承擔更新此資訊的義務。

In addition, we will present certain financial measures on this call that will be considered non-GAAP under the SEC Regulation G. For reconciliations of each non-GAAP financial measure to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure as well as for all the financial data presented on this call, please refer to the information included in our press release and in our Form 8-K dated and submitted to the SEC today, both of which can be found on our corporate website at ir.microvision.com under the SEC filings tab.

此外，我們將在這次電話會議上提出某些根據 SEC G 條例將被視為非 GAAP 的財務指標。電話會議上介紹的信息，請參閱我們的新聞稿以及今天提交給SEC 的8-K 表格中包含的信息，這兩個信息都可以在我們公司網站ir.microvision.com 上的SEC 備案文件中找到選項卡。

This conference call will be available for audio replay on the Investor Relations section of our website.

本次電話會議將在我們網站的投資者關係部分提供音訊重播。

Now, I would like to turn the call over to our CEO Sumit Sharma. Sumit?

現在，我想將電話轉給我們的執行長蘇米特夏爾馬 (Sumit Sharma)。蘇米特？

Thank you, Drew and welcome everyone to this review of our third-quarter 2024 results. I would like to start by providing an update on our engagements for industrial opportunities, our value proposition to our customers, and our view on long-term value proposition for our investors.

謝謝 Drew，並歡迎大家回顧我們 2024 年第三季的業績。首先，我想介紹我們對工業機會的參與、我們對客戶的價值主張以及我們對投資者的長期價值主張的看法。

Second, I will update you on the strategic sales with seven RFQs still in flight, and why I believe this is an important component of our value proposition and the disruption I believe we will provide long-term. Let's dive in.

其次，我將向您介紹仍在進行中的七個詢價的戰略銷售的最新情況，以及為什麼我認為這是我們價值主張的重要組成部分以及我相信我們將提供長期的顛覆。讓我們深入了解一下。

Sales into the industrial segment represent the strongest opportunity for us to establish a strong annual recurring revenue stream. There are multiple potential customers in multiple tranches classified by volume that will help us establish strong ARR.

工業領域的銷售是我們建立強大的年度經常性收入流的最佳機會。按數量分類的多個批次中有多個潛在客戶，這將幫助我們建立強大的 ARR。

Core products we will offer in this space have fully integrated LIDAR hardware and perception software on board running at low power. This will remain a big differentiator for this space. The same LIDAR software with differentiated perception software for each segment will allow customers to reduce system costs and time to ramp up.

我們將在這個領域提供的核心產品具有完全整合的光達硬體和感知軟體，以低功耗運作。這仍將是該領域的一大差異化因素。相同的雷射雷達軟體與每個細分市場的差異化感知軟體將使客戶能夠降低系統成本和提升時間。

We provide them with software and their individual custom interfaces. We should allow them to take our smart, lighter solution and interface directly with their domain controllers, eliminating the need for intermediate ECU which adds cost and complexity integration, and tends to overload them with software development. For the industrial segment, we expect to start with MOVIA L as our primary hardware product, and shortly followed by our MOVIA L safety rated sensor.

我們為他們提供軟體和個人化的客製化介面。我們應該允許他們採用我們的智慧、更輕的解決方案，並直接與他們的網域控制器連接，從而消除對中間ECU 的需求，中間ECU 會增加整合成本和複雜性，並且往往會導致軟體開發負擔過重。對於工業領域，我們預計首先將 MOVIA L 作為我們的主要硬體產品，然後不久將推出 MOVIA L 安全級感測器。

Over the following years, we expect to add additional Movia derivative sensors for the product portfolio. So we will expand on the product roadmap in the future. All along, extending this segment specific perception and localization software that is part of the solution. This go-to-market strategy represents our best opportunity to establish annual recurring revenues and favorable margins based on our software differentiations and provide a strong baseline to larger revenue opportunities from automotive lidar are expected to ramp in the later part of this decade.

在接下來的幾年裡，我們預計將為產品組合添加更多 Movia 衍生感測器。因此，我們未來將擴展產品路線圖。一直以來，擴展這個細分市場的特定感知和在地化軟體都是解決方案的一部分。這種進入市場的策略代表了我們根據我們的軟體差異化建立年度經常性收入和有利利潤的最佳機會，並為預計在本十年後期增加的汽車雷射雷達的更大收入機會提供了堅實的基礎。

Let's talk about our strategic sales opportunities. I believe the best long-term high volume opportunity for our technology remains with automotive OEMs for passenger vehicles, for L2 plus and L3 ADAS safety, we remain engaged in seven RFQs with automotive OEM for passenger vehicles. I expect our integrated hardware and software solution will also be key differentiator product for this space.

讓我們談談我們的策略銷售機會。我相信我們的技術的最佳長期大批量機會仍然是乘用車的汽車原始設備製造商，為了 L2+ 和 L3 ADAS 安全，我們仍然與乘用車的汽車原始設備製造商進行七個詢價。我預計我們的整合硬體和軟體解決方案也將成為該領域的關鍵差異化產品。

Our MAVIN and future MOVIA S product are primarily focusing on OEM engagement for passenger vehicles. The unique selling point to be competitive in this space remains cost to OEM, power, size and the level of sophistication in onboard perception software. I remain strongly confident that we will be the dominant technology partner to OEM in this space in the future.

我們的 MAVIN 和未來的 MOVIA S 產品主要專注於乘用車的 OEM 參與。在該領域具有競爭力的獨特賣點仍然是 OEM 成本、功耗、尺寸以及機上感知軟體的複雜程度。我仍然堅信，未來我們將成為該領域 OEM 的主導技術合作夥伴。

To win this space, we need to think about potentially winning multiple projects with multiple OEMs in the future. As OEMs realign their individual product strategies, we remain patiently engaged with them. Long term, their system cost needs to be competitive. Companies with ASPs in the 1000 plus range will not be competitive. All our technologies have been built for cost scaling with custom silicon and the lowest cost sequential flash lidar and mem scanning technology, we need to patiently work with OEMs for adoption and continue to do so.

為了贏得這個領域，我們需要考慮未來可能贏得多個原始設備製造商的多個項目。隨著原始設備製造商重新調整各自的產品策略，我們仍然耐心地與他們接觸。從長遠來看，他們的系統成本需要具有競爭力。ASP 在 1000 以上的公司將沒有競爭力。我們所有的技術都是為了透過客製化晶片和成本最低的順序閃存雷射雷達和記憶體掃描技術來實現成本擴展，我們需要耐心地與 OEM 合作以採用並繼續這樣做。

I'm going to keep my prepared remarks brief today, as we've received a large list of questions from our shareholders, I would like to address that as the main narrative again. I would like to now turn the call over to Anubhav to talk about our financials. Anubhav?

我今天準備的演講將保持簡短，因為我們收到了股東提出的大量問題，我想再次將其作為主要敘述。我現在想把電話轉給阿努巴夫，談談我們的財務狀況。阿努巴夫？

Thanks, Sumit. I'm pleased with what we have accomplished as a company since the last quarterly update. We have successfully positioned the company for long term growth by a, pursuing significant revenue streams and partnerships from non-automotive industrial channels in the short to medium term. This is critical, as all serial production revenue in automotive will be material only with economies of scale, which won't happen until later this decade; B, bolstering the balance sheet with the convertible note facility from a strong financial partner.

謝謝，蘇米特。我對自上次季度更新以來我們公司所取得的成就感到滿意。我們透過在中短期內從非汽車工業通路尋求可觀的收入來源和合作夥伴關係，成功地將公司定位為長期成長。這一點至關重要，因為汽車領域的所有批量生產收入只有在規模經濟的情況下才會成為實質收入，而規模經濟要到本十年後期才會發生； B、透過強大的金融合作夥伴提供的可轉換票據融資來支撐資產負債表。

We have further streamlined our cash burn and extended our runway into 2026. With significantly reduced cash burn, strong balance sheet and focus on industrial we believe we have improved our timelines to achieve cash flow break even. The capital raised to a convertible note comes at a very strategic time for us, given the visibility of near term revenue in the industrial space. The use of proceeds is expected to be general corporate purposes, and procuring some long lead items to deliver on the 2025 revenue opportunities.

我們進一步簡化了現金消耗，並將跑道延長至 2026 年。由於現金消耗顯著​​減少、資產負債表強勁以及對工業的關注，我們相信我們已經縮短了實現現金流收支平衡的時間表。鑑於工業領域近期收入的可見性，可轉換票據籌集的資金對我們來說是一個非常具有戰略意義的時刻。預計所得款項用途將用於一般企業用途，並購買一些長期項目以實現 2025 年的收入機會。

Securing an institutional financial partner to invest at this time signals a vote of confidence in the company's future. We ran a competitive process to select institutions for this round of capital raise, and received term sheets from multiple investors that reinforced the market perception in MicroVision's technology. The size and terms of the convertible note are also reflective of the MicroVision's market position and strong credit profile to emerge as one of the last standing LIDAR companies with the lowest cash burn.

此時確保機構金融合作夥伴進行投資標誌著對公司未來的信任投票。我們透過競爭程序來選擇參與本輪融資的機構，並收到了多個投資者的投資意向書，這增強了市場對 MicroVision 技術的認知。可轉換票據的規模和條款也反映了 MicroVision 的市場地位和強大的信用狀況，成為最後一家現金消耗最低的光達公司之一。

This is a two-year 75 million fixed convertible note facility. The first tranche of $45 million was funded at a closing price of $1.33 as of October 14, 2024, with a $30 million tranche available for future drawdowns subject to certain limitations. This is a 0% interest coupon facility, and matures on October 1, 2026, with the lender having the option to require the company to repay the notes starting January 1, 2025, up to 1.8 million monthly prior to April 1, 2025 and up to 3.5 million monthly on and after April 1, 2025, plus a 10% premium.

這是一項為期兩年、金額為 7500 萬美元的固定可轉換票據融資。第一筆資金為 4,500 萬美元，截至 2024 年 10 月 14 日的收盤價為 1.33 美元，其中 3,000 萬美元可用於未來提取，但須遵守一定的限制。這是一項0% 的息票貸款，於2026 年10 月1 日到期，貸款人可以選擇要求公司從2025 年1 月1 日起償還票據，在2025 年4 月1 日之前每月最多償還180 萬美元2025 年 4 月 1 日及以後每月增至 350 萬，另加 10% 的溢價。

The conversion price, or the price at which the notes could be converted into common stock is fixed at $1.596, or approximately $1.60. The aggregate value of the notes that could be converted into the shares at this price ranges from $33 million to $40 million. The range is dependent on how does the stock price on the date [S3] free registration statement goes effective compared against the initial close price of $1.33. The remainder of the $45 million principal, which is $5 million to $12 million, will be converted into shares at 10% discount to the share price on the date when the S3 free registration statement goes effective.

轉換價格或票據轉換為普通股的價格固定為 1.596 美元，約 1.60 美元。以此價格可轉換為股票的票據總價值在 3,300 萬美元至 4,000 萬美元之間。此範圍取決於 [S3] 免費註冊聲明生效之日的股價與 1.33 美元的初始收盤價相比如何。 4500萬美元本金的剩餘部分，即500萬至1200萬美元，將以較S3免費註冊聲明生效之日股價10%的折扣轉換為股票。

We believe high trails economic incentives are aligned with the company as they get to convert their principal into stock. If the stock price is momentum due to the near term commercial wins and other industry factors, thereby riding the upside with all other shareholders. This makes the overall cost of capital for this convertible facility quite attractive. We believe that the growth coming from this convertible is higher than the cost of capital, and will put us on a trajectory which will lead to cheaper ways to finance the business, until free cash flow generation.

我們相信，當公司將本金轉換為股票時，高額經濟誘因與公司是一致的。如果由於近期商業勝利和其他行業因素而導致股價上漲，從而與所有其他股東一起上漲。這使得該可轉換設施的整體資本成本相當有吸引力。我們相信，這種可轉換債券帶來的成長高於資本成本，並將使我們走上一條軌道，以更便宜的方式為企業融資，直到產生自由現金流。

Now let's review our Q2 financial performance for the third quarter. We reported revenue of $0.2 million. This revenue was lower than our expectations as an existing customer pushed out its delivery of sensors from Q3 to Q4. This expected revenue from the sale of our sensors was delayed because the leading agriculture equipment company pushed out their delivery schedule.

現在讓我們回顧一下第三季第二季的財務表現。我們報告的收入為 20 萬美元。該收入低於我們的預期，因為現有客戶將感測器的交付時間從第三季推遲到了第四季度。由於領先的農業設備公司推遲了交貨時間表，我們感測器銷售的預期收入被推遲。

From an expensive standpoint, while our revenues came in lower than expectations we are pleased with our third quarter OpEx performance. For the third quarter, we had approximately $15 million of R&D and SG&A expenses this includes $2.4 million of non-cash charges related to stock-based compensation expense, and $1.4 million in non-cash charges related to depreciation and amortization.

從昂貴的角度來看，雖然我們的收入低於預期，但我們對第三季的營運支出表現感到滿意。第三季度，我們的研發和銷售管理費用約為 1,500 萬美元，其中包括與股票補償費用相關的 240 萬美元非現金費用，以及與折舊和攤提相關的 140 萬美元非現金費用。

For the third quarter $14.1 million cash was used in operating activities, which is lined with our previously communicated expectations. The Q3 cash used in operating activities came down by 25% quarter over quarter in-line with our expectations, our expenses have trended down sequentially since Q1 primarily due to the reductions in-force we implemented to focus the company on MAVIN and MOVIA away from Mosaik and Sensor Fusion.

第三季經營活動使用了 1,410 萬美元現金，符合我們先前傳達的預期。第三季經營活動中使用的現金環比下降了25%，符合我們的預期，自第一季以來我們的支出呈連續下降趨勢，主要是由於我們實施了有效的削減措施，以便將公司的重點放在MAVIN 和MOVIA 上，從而遠離馬賽克和感測器融合。

Keeping in mind the current view from the automotive OEMs regarding their start of production timeline, we have decided to further scale down some of our ASIC programs and dependent on third-party contractors related to automotive work. We believe that our new fixed expenses of R&D and SG&A annual run rate will now be in the $48 million to $50 million for the next year 2025.

考慮到汽車原始設備製造商目前對其開始生產時間表的看法，我們決定進一步縮減我們的一些 ASIC 項目，並依賴與汽車工作相關的第三方承包商。我們相信，到 2025 年，我們的新固定研發費用和 SG&A 年運行費率將在 4,800 萬至 5,000 萬美元之間。

We think streamlining the cost structure in response to the automotive start of production dates related to projects is the right move and helps the company to scale faster with industrial revenue in the near term. We will resume some of these ASIC programs at the right time, when we see the momentum for automotive revenue building up in 2025. As expected, Q2 CapEx was zero in line with our expectations.

我們認為，根據與專案相關的汽車投產日期來精簡成本結構是正確的舉措，有助於公司在短期內更快地擴大工業收入。當我們看到 2025 年汽車收入成長的勢頭時，我們將在適當的時候恢復其中一些 ASIC 項目。如預期，第二季資本支出為零，符合我們的預期。

Now let's talk about our talk about our balance sheet. We have significantly bolstered our balance sheet as a result of the recently announced convertible note financing, both the financing the company now has a total liquidity of $234 million with the following three components, number one, total cash and cash equivalents of $81 million after giving effect to the net cash proceeds of $38 million from the first tranche of the convertible note.

現在讓我們來談談我們的資產負債表。由於最近宣布的可轉換票據融資，我們的資產負債表得到了顯著增強，這兩項融資使公司現在的流動性總額為2.34 億美元，由以下三個組成部分組成：第一，在提供資金後，現金和現金等價物總額為8,100 萬美元影響第一批可轉換票據的淨現金收益 3,800 萬美元。

Number two, $122.6 million availability as of 930 under its current at the market ATM facility led by Deutsche Bank Matsu and Craig Hallam and number three, $30 million of the remaining capital commitment under the convertible note facility. With the new ongoing OpEx rate run rate of $48 million to $50 million, we believe we have further extended our runway into 2026 with our current liquidity profile.

第二，截至 930 年，由德意志銀行 Matsu 和 Craig Hallam 牽頭的當前市場 ATM 設施可提供 1.226 億美元的可用資金；第三，可轉換票據設施下剩餘資本承諾的 3,000 萬美元。隨著新的營運支出運行率為 4800 萬美元至 5000 萬美元，我們相信，憑藉我們目前的流動性狀況，我們已將跑道進一步延長至 2026 年。

MicroVision continues to stand out in the marketplace, having one of the lowest cash burn rates. This further positions the company as the leading contender to be on the path to achieve cash flow break even faster than all its peers. We did not sell under the current $150 million ATM facility in the third quarter. We believe we're on track for $8 million to $10 million revenue this year. The Q4 revenue is expected to come from number one, sale of LIDAR sensors to automotive OEM and non-automotive customers, and number two, NRE, or one time development fee for customization projects for customers in both automotive and industrial. Since some of the components of the expected revenue streams are related to NRE, revenue recognition is subject to customer approvals.

MicroVision 繼續在市場上脫穎而出，成為現金消耗率最低的公司之一。這進一步使該公司成為領先的競爭者，能夠比所有同行更快地實現現金流突破。第三季我們沒有以目前 1.5 億美元的 ATM 額度進行銷售。我們相信今年我們的收入預計將達到 800 萬至 1000 萬美元。第四季的收入預計將來自第一名，向汽車 OEM 和非汽車客戶銷售雷射雷達感測器，第二名，NRE，即為汽車和工業客戶量身定制專案的一次性開發費。由於預期收入流的某些組成部分與 NRE 有關，因此收入確認須經客戶批准。

From a cash burn standpoint, our new annual OpEx, including R&D and SG&A is expected to be $48 million and $50 million in next year. To summarize, we're really excited about 2025 and beyond.

從現金消耗的角度來看，我們明年的新年度營運支出（包括研發和銷售、一般管理費用）預計分別為 4,800 萬美元和 5,000 萬美元。總而言之，我們對 2025 年及以後感到非常興奮。

Operator, I would now like to open the line for questions.

接線員，我現在想開通提問線路。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Casey Ryan, WestPark Capital.

凱西·瑞安（Casey Ryan），西園資本。

Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for the update. I had a few questions. I think everyone's happy you're focusing on the industrial market. Two questions, do ASPs have to change to get the market moving for you from current levels, let's say? And the second part of the question is, I think in previous comments, you talked about 10,000 to 30,000 units being available, maybe in 2025 but can you talk about what you think the like reasonable unit TAM might be not guidance or anything, which is sort of a sizing of what the opportunity could be in 2025?

大家下午好。感謝您的更新。我有幾個問題。我認為每個人都很高興您專注於工業市場。有兩個問題，比如說，ASP 是否必須改變才能使市場從當前水準向您的方向發展？問題的第二部分是，我認為在先前的評論中，您談到可能在2025 年有10,000 到30,000 個單位可用，但您能否談談您認為合理的單位TAM 可能不是指導或任何東西，這是對 2025 年機會的規模進行了估算？

So look, from a ASP standpoint, we believe that ASPs would be in the $1,000 to $2,000 range, and the range is primarily driven by the software offering that these industrial customers are looking for which, by the way, is lower than the ASP obviously we do not get the volume because you know, the customers that we are targeting are looking for volumes in the ranges that you described.

因此，從 ASP 的角度來看，我們認為 ASP 將在 1,000 美元到 2,000 美元的範圍內，該範圍主要由這些工業客戶正在尋找的軟體產品驅動，順便說一下，該軟體產品顯然低於 ASP我們沒有得到數量，因為您知道，我們的目標客戶正在尋找您所描述的範圍內的數量。

But typically, you know that would be ASP for this particular application. The second part of your question is the range, the range for the volumes, because we have a few customers which are looking to roll these sensors into their fleets, which could again be their new robots or new vehicles, and could also be a case of retrofit for the existing inventory. So we do believe that this number would be reasonably in the range that you described, between 10,000 to 30,000 units for next year.

但通常情況下，您知道該特定應用程式將是 ASP。你問題的第二部分是範圍，體積的範圍，因為我們有一些客戶希望將這些感測器引入他們的車隊，這可能又是他們的新機器人或新車，也可能是一個案例對現有庫存進行改造。因此，我們確實相信這個數字將合理地處於您所描述的範圍內，即明年的 10,000 到 30,000 台之間。

Okay, good, great. That's very helpful. I think on the 2Q call, I think maybe you guys had referenced sort of thinking that the non-automotive opportunity could be [$8 million to $10 million], maybe in calendar '24 but it sounds like maybe that shifted a little bit and blend into '25 but does that feel like the right pacing of revenues from non-automotive opportunity, maybe something in that $4 million a quarter range. And I also just point out that, like, inventories are at $4.8 million. So does inventory tell us something about the opportunity within one or two quarters in terms of what this customer could consume I guess.

好的，很好，太好了。這非常有幫助。我想在第二季的電話會議上，我想你們可能提到了一種想法，即非汽車行業的機會可能是[800萬到1000萬美元]，也許在24年日曆上，但聽起來可能有點改變並混合進入 25 世紀，但這是否感覺是非汽車機會收入的正確節奏，也許在每季 400 萬美元的範圍內。我還只是指出，庫存為 480 萬美元。因此，庫存是否告訴我們有關一兩個季度內該客戶可能消費的機會的資訊。

Yes. I think that's a great question, I think Casey you picked on the right metric on the balance sheet and, and I think that's sort of also why this capital raise comes in at that at this time, right? Because we are beginning to build inventory to service or to prepare for the revenue commitments for next year.

是的。我認為這是一個很好的問題，我認為凱西您在資產負債表上選擇了正確的指標，而且我認為這也是為什麼此時進行融資的原因，對嗎？因為我們正在開始建立庫存以提供服務或為明年的收入承諾做準備。

I'm a bit hesitant to give you a quarterly run rate, because the ramp is actually going to be dependent on the customer, because typically what ends up happening is the customer will have to deploy this at multiple sites, et cetera. So that would be, obviously something which is dependent on the customer. From a revenue recognition standpoint, we obviously only recognized revenue when the sensors are delivered to the customers.

我有點猶豫是否要給你一個季度運行率，因為斜坡實際上取決於客戶，因為通常最終發生的情況是客戶必須在多個站點部署它，等等。因此，這顯然取決於客戶。從收入確認的角度來看，我們顯然只有在感測器交付給客戶時才確認收入。

But I do believe that the numbers that I described for the total number sounds about the right way to look at 2025 with maybe the ramp really happening mid-2025, next year to maybe Q3 when the revenue builds up. But again, like I said the ramp is typically driven by the customers in this case.

但我確實相信，我所描述的總數聽起來是看待 2025 年的正確方式，也許增長真的會在 2025 年中期發生，明年可能到第三季度，屆時收入就會增加。但同樣，正如我所說，在這種情況下，成長通常是由客戶驅動的。

Right. Okay, I think that makes a lot of sense. How many, so, sort of the one customer that we're talking about, and sort of talking you mentioned that it's in the ag space. Let me ask you, just for all of us investors thinking about how big the opportunities can be outside of automotive. How many players are there who look like your customer?

正確的。好吧，我認為這很有道理。有多少，所以，我們正在談論的一個客戶，以及您提到的農業領域的客戶。讓我問一下，我們所有的投資者都在思考汽車產業以外的機會有多大。有多少玩家看起來像您的客戶？

And obviously I'm asking like, is this sort of like a duopoly type customer, or is it a market where you're serving potentially 5 to 10 type customers who look similar in size, and there's sort of a multi-customer opportunity within the segment?

顯然我想問的是，這是否有點像雙頭壟斷類型的客戶，或者是一個你正在為 5 到 10 名看起來規模相似的潛在客戶提供服務的市場，並且其中存在某種多客戶機會細分市場？

Let me take that. So I think when you think when you think about this opportunity, let's think about just MicroVision in general, right? Think about in tranches. The top tranche is customers that need more than 100,000 less than a 1 million annually. This is primarily our strategic sales to automotive OEMs, right? So there's a bunch of customers in there.

讓我來吧。所以我認為當你想到這個機會時，讓我們考慮一下 MicroVision 的整體情況，對嗎？分階段考慮。頂級客戶群是每年需求量超過 10 萬、不到 100 萬的客戶。這主要是我們對汽車原始設備製造商的策略性銷售，對嗎？所以裡面有很多顧客。

I would say a bunch of potential customers in there, and we continue working on them. The next tranche is, let's say, annually more than 20,000 less than 100,000. In there, you probably have customers that you can the number of customers you can count on two hands, right? And there's a very varying amount of segments that they work in, but you know that can aggregate to something big but again, it does not get as big as the first tranche.

我想說那裡有很多潛在客戶，我們將繼續為他們服務。比方說，下一部分是每年超過 2 萬人，少於 10 萬人。在那裡，你可能有兩隻手都可以數得出來的客戶，對吧？他們所從事的細分市場數量差異很大，但你知道這些細分市場可以聚合成一個大的東西，但同樣，它不會像第一部分那麼大。

Tranche number three is customers that have more than 1000 less than 10,000 sensors per year. The list goes bigger. So instead of, you know, two hands, maybe, like you know, three or four hands are needed now.

第三部分是每年擁有超過 1000 個不到 10,000 個感測器的客戶。名單變得更大。所以，你知道，現在可能需要三到四隻手，而不是兩隻手。

But again, you know, they aggregate to something bigger, then below that now you start getting into, like more than 100 less than 1000 and in this category, of course, there's, like a massive group of people, right? But if you add them all up, they will probably come up to about 50% or 75% of the tranche above them and the last tranche is, of course, like, more than one in less than 100 so this is like, you know, how we think about like, as you know, we engage with different customers, where we put them in different places, and they all have different needs.

但同樣，你知道，他們聚集成更大的東西，然後在這個之下你現在開始進入，比如超過 100 少於 1000，在這個類別中，當然，有一大群人，對嗎？但如果你把它們全部加起來，它們可能會占到上面部分的 50% 或 75% 左右，而最後一部分當然是不到 100 分之一，所以這就像，你知道，我們如何思考，如您所知，我們與不同的客戶互動，我們將他們放在不同的地方，他們都有不同的需求。

When you think about the MOVIA L safety rated sensor, for example, it comes with some standard software, so we don't customize it, but it's going to be standard software that's qualified and that allows them to get up and running very, very quickly. Because as you go to the lower tranches, you can imagine, you probably end up with more sales people than engineers. Because to address so many customers to get to those big revenues that we would need, you would need quite a lot of team.

例如，當您考慮 MOVIA L 安全級感測器時，它配備了一些標準軟體，因此我們不會對其進行定制，但它將是合格的標準軟體，並且允許它們非常非常地啟動和運行迅速地。因為當你進入較低的部分時，你可以想像，你最終可能會遇到比工程師更多的銷售人員。因為要滿足如此多的客戶以獲得我們所需的巨額收入，您將需要相當多的團隊。

So we've developed a product that allows us to say, there's a standard product and can buy it and here's the map pricing, and we work pretty hard to incorporate all the different interfaces and all the things they need down below. The middle tranches is where the interesting part happens, where we have the opportunity to upsell software, and the software is something custom that they would need. So the hardware is exactly the same, but the software content, part of it, right, allows us to really extract value from the product. So instead of thinking it about like is it like 5 customers, 50 customers, there is, you know, I mean, our sales force, we have quite a lot of customers, but we look at them in tranches, because to get to like, any kind of like, you know, future break even target with industrial by itself we have to have a visibility of, how do you get to some annual run rate that's respectable first, and from there how you would have growth? Does that answer your question? Casey?

因此，我們開發了一種產品，可以讓我們說，有一個標準產品，可以購買它，這是地圖定價，我們非常努力地整合所有不同的介面以及他們需要的所有東西。中間部分是有趣的部分發生的地方，我們有機會追加銷售軟體，而該軟體是他們需要的客製化軟體。所以硬體是完全一樣的，但是軟體內容，其中的一部分，對吧，讓我們能夠真正從產品中提取價值。因此，不要考慮像 5 個客戶、50 個客戶這樣的問題，我的意思是，我們的銷售隊伍，我們有相當多的客戶，但我們會分批地看待他們，因為要喜歡，任何類型的工業本身的未來收支平衡目標，我們都必須有一個可見性，如何先達到可觀的年運行率，然後從那裡如何實現成長？這能回答你的問題嗎？凱西？

Yes. Actually, that's a very helpful framework. So just to be more efficient with everyone's time, I guess the last question, I'm just wondering about capacity. And like, I understand it might not be an issue today, but sometimes when people are talking about what their ability to support is it's helpful for investors to understand, you know, how many sensors could you produce?

是的。事實上，這是一個非常有用的框架。因此，為了更有效地利用每個人的時間，我想最後一個問題，我只是想知道容量。就像，我知道這在今天可能不是問題，但有時當人們談論他們的支持能力時，投資者了解，你知道，你可以生產多少感測器是有幫助的？

I understand you have multiple products, but what's the flexibility around production and if orders outpace what you expected or something, would there be any issues on the other side of the house in terms of fulfilling those orders, I guess.

我知道您有多種產品，但生產的靈活性如何？

There, there will be no concern about the operations. I think our current capacity is, you know, I'll, I'll average it out about 45,000 units a year.

在那裡，不會擔心操作問題。我認為我們目前的產能平均每年約為 45,000 台。

And that's on a single shift, you know, we can certainly wrap it up if you can think about if you were actually shipping that in the unit. So if you think about the production line that was developed for automotive qualified by bill that we acquired through the transaction, So it's a fully qualified PAP line, very high quality work. You know, those kind of volumes, I mean, it can run much faster if we need it to be, but these kind of volumes for industrial there, you know, would be a very significant player if you can fill up the entire capacity. So everything we've talked about so far, we believe that we can cover with this capacity. And as you, as you, as I mentioned, the Movia L product that runs on that production line, there's no other product that runs on that production line, the hardware remains the same. The differentiator is the firmware and the software that gets put. So you can do a low volume, high mix product without having to do a lot of configuration management except the software that has to run in there. So it gives us the flexibility to address multiple customers and you know, get to a decent ramp rate.

這是一個單班次，你知道，如果你能考慮一下你是否真的在設備中運送它，我們當然可以把它包起來。因此，如果您考慮我們透過交易獲得的符合法案要求的汽車生產線，那麼這是一條完全合格的 PAP 生產線，品質非常高。你知道，我的意思是，如果我們需要的話，這些卷可以運行得更快，但是如果你能填滿整個容量，那麼工業用卷，你知道，將是一個非常重要的參與者。因此，到目前為止我們所討論的一切，我們相信我們可以用這種能力來涵蓋。正如你，正如我所提到的，Movia L 產品在該生產線上運行，沒有其他產品在該生產線上運行，硬體保持不變。差別在於所安裝的韌體和軟體。因此，您可以製作小批量、高混合的產品，而無需進行大量組態管理，除了必須在其中運行的軟體之外。因此，它使我們能夠靈活地滿足多個客戶的需求，並達到一個不錯的爬坡率。

Okay, great. Thanks. That's very helpful. And yeah, it sounds like you're making terrific progress. So we'll look forward to seeing how things develop the rest of the year and into the new year. So thank you for your time. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。這非常有幫助。是的，聽起來你取得了巨大的進步。因此，我們將期待看到今年剩餘時間和新一年的情況如何發展。謝謝您的寶貴時間。謝謝。

Thank you, Casey.

謝謝你，凱西。

I will now turn this call back over to Anubhav Verma to read questions submitted through the webcast. Thank you.

我現在將把這個電話轉回給 Anubhav Verma，以閱讀透過網路廣播提交的問題。謝謝。

Thanks. Mike. So the first question is management mentioned on the latest conference call 15 ongoing non-automotive RFQs, trying to get a sense of where we are making inroads or seeing a greater appetite for our solutions. Please further describe the composition of those, such as, you know, five for AMR or warehousing, or 10 for heavy equipment. Are they primarily in agricultural and heavy equipment? Or is there more interest in warehouse and forklift applications?

謝謝。麥克風。因此，第一個問題是管理層在最新的電話會議上提到的15 個正在進行的非汽車詢價，試圖了解我們在哪些方面取得了進展，或者看到人們對我們的解決方案有更大的興趣。請進一步描述這些的組成，例如，您知道，AMR 或倉儲有 5 個，重型設備有 10 個。它們主要是農業和重型設備嗎？或對倉庫和堆高機應用更感興趣？

So I think for all of us who we need to keep in mind the way I describe the different tranches of how we think about all the different customers and how we sort them out, I would say primarily a lot of the focus right now is AMR warehouse management and other industrial applications.

因此，我認為對於我們所有人來說，我們需要牢記我描述我們如何看待所有不同客戶以及我們如何對他們進行分類的不同部分的方式，我想說，現在主要的重點是抗菌素抗藥性倉庫管理和其他工業應用。

But there is motion involved in the robots, therefore these are higher volume applications, nothing compared to automotive would be, but still pretty, pretty high volume. So we're focusing on that first.

但機器人涉及運動，因此這些是更高容量的應用，與汽車相比沒有什麼可比的，但仍然相當非常高的容量。所以我們先關注這一點。

Thank you. Next question, what are the main use cases for MicroVisions, product with these new industrial business opportunities. What problems are they solving? And how are we solving these issues in a way current solutions are not performing. What is the low hanging fruit from business efficiency and performance upgrades to MT, BF ratings? How are we locking in these opportunities? Are these through demos, NRE agreements, samples?

謝謝。下一個問題是，MicroVisions 產品的主要用例是什麼，具有這些新的工業商機。他們正在解決什麼問題？我們如何以當前解決方案無法發揮作用的方式解決這些問題。業務效率和效能升級到 MT、BF 評級的唾手可得的成果是什麼？我們如何鎖定這些機會？這些是透過演示、NRE 協議、樣本實現的嗎？

Yeah. I think if you think about what the problem is, that's a great question actually, we have technology, but we have to understand what problem are we solving is it a big enough problem? So if you think about, you know, forklifts and other kind of equipment have been around for a long period of time, humans work in close proximity to them.

是的。我認為如果你思考問題是什麼，這實際上是一個很好的問題，我們擁有技術，但我們必須了解我們正在解決什麼問題，這是一個足夠大的問題嗎？因此，如果您想一想，您就會知道，堆高機和其他類型的設備已經存在了很長一段時間，人類在它們附近工作。

In all this space, it's hard for those OEMs to actually provide technology, you know, with safety, because most of the focus is always going to be on an automotive kind of application with a much higher volume. So the kind of systems they have been able to field they don't have the kind of capabilities and the kind of safety that is required nowadays.

在所有這個領域，這些原始設備製造商很難真正提供安全的技術，因為大多數關注點總是集中在容量更大的汽車應用上。因此，他們能夠部署的系統不具備當今所需的功能和安全性。

And as you can imagine, you know, everything is getting somewhat automated, so safety is one of those things that's expected, even in an environment where things are moving at a slow pace, but the payload is pretty high to get some level of safety. So as you think about the perception that was developed, the perception techniques that were developed for automotive can be adapted and applied to address these spaces with the same exact sensor.

正如您可以想像的那樣，您知道，一切都在某種程度上自動化，因此安全性是預期的事情之一，即使在事物移動緩慢的環境中，但有效載荷相當高以獲得一定程度的安全性。因此，當您考慮所開發的感知時，可以調整並應用為汽車開發的感知技術，以使用相同的感測器來解決這些空間問題。

The real benefit is think about the no longer LIDAR sensor. The hardware looks like a LIDAR but the software inside it makes it a pretty incredible solution where the solution goes directly the LIDAR when it's mounted, that piece of hardware and software interacts directly with their domain controller that's actually controlling whatever device, whatever motion controls that they need, and things like stopping, recognizing an object in the path, something cantilevered, things that would be very hard for a 2D sensor to infer from a scene that a full 3D sensor is allowing them to create safety, kind of magically.

真正的好處是不再使用光達感測器。硬體看起來像雷射雷達，但它內部的軟體使其成為一個非常令人難以置信的解決方案，該解決方案在安裝時直接連接雷射雷達，該硬體和軟體直接與其域控制器交互，該域控制器實際上控制任何設備，無論運動控制什麼他們需要諸如停止、識別路徑中的物體、懸臂物體等東西，這些東西對於2D 感測器來說很難從場景中推斷出完整的3D 感測器可以讓他們創造安全，有點神奇。

So can you imagine a forklift with a full payload moving at, full speed, and the user does not notice that there's something on the ground that can actually get jammed up and you could even cause an accident, or worse yet, that as you're going down an aisle, the way that things react that something is hanging in the aisle, so can lever it over. And if he misses it, he runs into it, and things start falling on top of him.

因此，您能想像一輛滿載有效負載的堆高機全速移動，而用戶沒有註意到地面上有東西實際上可能會被卡住，甚至可能導致事故，或者更糟的是，就像您一樣沿著過道走時，物體反應的方式是有東西懸掛在過道上，因此可以將其撬開。如果他錯過了，他就會碰到它，然後東西就會開始落在他身上。

This is real situations where the operator could get hurt, serious bodily injury. With the three LIDAR, all those things and the software, effectively, you can stop the forklift independent of how much attention this person was paying. So recently, I actually saw a demo of this running.

這是操作員可能受傷、嚴重人身傷害的真實情況。借助三個雷射雷達、所有這些東西和軟體，您可以有效地停止堆高機，無論這個人的注意力有多少。所以最近，我實際上看到了這個運行的演示。

And conceptually, you always think about, yeah, this is how it's going to work but I saw it working live, and I was amazed that they were completely jamming down on the accelerator full blast and our sensor actually brought it to a low speed, and kind of nudged it next to it.

從概念上講，你總是會想，是的，這就是它的工作原理，但我看到它在現場工作，我很驚訝他們完全乾擾了加速器的全速運轉，而我們的感測器實際上使它降到了低速，然後輕輕地把它推到旁邊。

So couldn't find a way to make this accident happen and this was as you're asking like how do we actually engage. We start off with making custom software, custom development samples that we give them, that we give them interfaces as well communication interfaces, work with them to create these demos so their executive team can see how well it would integrate into their product roadmap.

所以找不到辦法讓這起事故發生，這就像你問的那樣，我們如何實際參與。我們首先製作客製化軟體，為他們提供客製化開發範例，為他們提供介面以及通訊接口，與他們合作創建這些演示，以便他們的執行團隊可以看到它將如何很好地整合到他們的產品路線圖中。

And from there, of course, we just talk about how commercial rollouts will happen, what their timelines are, what our capability is, the strength of the balance sheet of the company, our production capabilities, our team, give them confidence that we can support this for many, many years to come. Because in almost every case that I've been to, they look for a partner that's going to be around for seven or eight years because whatever technology incorporates, they rely upon it. They cannot have switchovers every so often. So that's the focus area.

當然，從那裡開始，我們只是談論商業推廣將如何進行，他們的時間表是什麼，我們的能力是什麼，公司資產負債表的實力，我們的生產能力，我們的團隊，讓他們相信我們可以在未來很多很多年支持這一點。因為在我去過的幾乎每一個案例中，他們都會尋找一個能夠持續七、八年的合作夥伴，因為無論採用什麼技術，他們都會依賴它。他們不能經常進行切換。這就是重點領域。

Thanks, Sumit. And if I can just add NRE agreements, because obviously, as I mentioned, part of our Q4 guidance as well. This is the project in which we are actively performing the work for our customer and when we get the approval, that sort of, you know, also triggers a rapid recognition. So just in line with the way we are, we believe about the 2024 guidance.

謝謝，蘇米特。如果我可以添加 NRE 協議，因為顯然，正如我所提到的，這也是我們第四季度指導的一部分。在這個專案中，我們正在積極為客戶開展工作，當我們獲得批准時，您知道，這也會引發快速認可。因此，按照我們目前的情況，我們相信 2024 年的指導方針。

All right. Next question, as investors parse the business aspects of these potential new partnerships, what's the best way to understand the hardware and software margins on these prospective deals?

好的。下一個問題是，當投資者解析這些潛在新合作夥伴關係的業務方面時，了解這些潛在交易的硬體和軟體利潤的最佳方法是什麼？

Can we talk about the return on investment for both customers meaning, how is industrial autonomy, shifting, the business models and warehouse, logistics, farming, mining, et cetera? And how do they value this technology in their own businesses?

我們能否談談雙方客戶的投資報酬率，即產業自主權、轉移、商業模式以及倉儲、物流、農業、採礦等？他們如何評價自己企業的這項技術？

Yes. If you think about -- I think Anubhav I'm going to have talk about that so people can model it correctly. But the opportunity we have is clearly quite a lot was invested to create the hardware. We've spent since we've taken over the acquisition. We spent quite a lot of money to transition this product ready for production, for the industrial space. And it's taken us over a year quite a lot has been invested.

是的。如果你考慮一下——我想阿努巴夫（Anubhav）我會談論這個，這樣人們就可以正確地建模它。但我們擁有的機會顯然是投入了大量資金來創建硬體。自從我們接管收購以來，我們已經花了很多錢。我們花費了大量資金來將該產品轉變為工業領域的生產。我們花了一年多的時間投入了大量資金。

So of course, we would like to recoup our cost in there. So the hardware margins are going to be your typical hardware margins that customers expect, some of them, or almost all of them, listen to our earnings call and read it. So this is something that they already know.

所以當然，我們想收回那裡的成本。因此，硬體利潤率將是客戶期望的典型硬體利潤率，其中一些或幾乎所有客戶都會聽我們的財報電話會議並閱讀它。所以這是他們已經知道的事情。

Our big differentiation comes in with a level of software that they want. We're building upon a body of work that was done, and we do something derivative for them. But in some cases, the derivative projects are small. In some cases the derivative projects are pretty massive. And then it comes down to do we -- we would rather have volume commitments from them and happy to amortize the R&D cost over the volume. So the software volume is, of course, the big part, right?

我們的巨大差異化來自於他們想要的軟體層級。我們正在以已經完成的工作為基礎，並為他們做一些衍生的事情。但在某些情況下，衍生項目規模較小。在某些情況下，衍生項目相當龐大。然後歸根結底是我們——我們寧願得到他們的銷售承諾，並樂意將研發成本分攤到銷售上。所以軟體體積當然是最大的部分，對吧？

Because what we're helping them do is take away costs from their system when they don't need an extra ECU and cable and their software team to create the application. We provide them the software that goes directly to domain controller, and it is to a high level of qualification, because the team is are very capable, coming from a discipline of automotive software, to have well qualified software to be provided to them. So I think it gives us an opportunity.

因為我們幫助他們做的是，當他們不需要額外的 ECU 和電纜以及他們的軟體團隊來創建應用程式時，可以降低系統成本。我們為他們提供直接連接到網域控制器的軟體，並且具有高水準的資格，因為來自汽車軟體學科的團隊非常有能力向他們提供合格的軟體。所以我認為這給了我們一個機會。

I would say that what's exciting to me is we have software content in here, and it's a problem that they need solved, and we can get them up and running years in advance, so their team actually be able to deliver based on somebody else's sensor, without the software existing right now.

我想說的是，令我興奮的是我們這裡有軟體內容，這是他們需要解決的問題，我們可以提前幾年讓它們啟動並運行，這樣他們的團隊實際上就能夠基於其他人的傳感器進行交付，目前沒有該軟體。

So the overall solution margins, I think could be favorable. And Anubhav, I'll leave it to you, how you'd like to market to model it.

因此，我認為整體解決方案的利潤可能是有利的。Anubhav，我會把它留給你，你想如何行銷來建模它。

Yeah. No, I think the way to think about this is the value proposition for the customers is really two fold A, with our solutions, they can actually deploy their robot faster, so which helps them, in turn, collect revenues faster. If these companies are actually using the or in the warehouse distribution or logistics business, where they can deploy more robots efficiently. And obviously at their end, can typically grow their top line faster with more of these robots in coming in the supply.

是的。不，我認為思考這個問題的方法是，對客戶的價值主張實際上是兩重A，透過我們的解決方案，他們實際上可以更快地部署機器人，從而幫助他們更快地獲得收入。如果這些公司實際上正在使用或在倉庫配送或物流業務中，他們可以在那裡有效地部署更多機器人。顯然，隨著更多此類機器人的供應，他們的收入通常可以更快地成長。

The second aspect is the cost. Because obviously, as Sumit mentioned, when there is a downtime, it actually costs money for these providers, not just in terms of either time or the opportunity cost, but also the loss of inventory, which, I think, which happens when you know pallets can crash over and which again, leads to downtime, et cetera. So the way our customers are looking at this solution or the business problem that we are solving is helping them deploy these robots faster, and secondly, reduce their cost of operating these robots as well, which is sort of what our customers are looking to extract from our solution, which in turn, helps them.

第二個方面是成本。因為顯然，正如Sumit 所提到的，當出現停機時，這些提供者實際上會付出金錢，不僅是時間成本或機會成本，而且還有庫存損失，我認為，當你知道這種情況時就會發生這種情況托盤可能會發生碰撞，再次導致停機等情況。因此，我們的客戶看待這個解決方案或我們正在解決的業務問題的方式是幫助他們更快地部署這些機器人，其次，也降低他們操作這些機器人的成本，這正是我們的客戶希望獲得的我們的解決方案反過來又幫助了他們。

Now in terms of margins for us, like Sumit described, you know, I would like to, sort of, you know, obviously have a more detailed guidance once, sort of we have visibility into 2025, and the ramp, which I think Casey also asked about. But like Sumit described the way to think about this is hardware would have a standard margin, but the software would have a higher margin, because given obviously, we are using a standard product perception software and then really customizing it for the particular application, and then amortizing it over the base price of the customer.

現在就我們的利潤而言，就像 Sumit 所描述的那樣，你知道，我想，你知道，顯然有一次更詳細的指導，我們可以看到 2025 年的情況，以及斜坡，我認為凱西還問了一下。但正如Sumit 所描述的，思考這個問題的方式是硬體將有一個標準的利潤，但軟體將有更高的利潤，因為顯然，我們正在使用標準的產品感知軟體，然後針對特定應用程式對其進行真正的定制，並且然後將其攤銷到客戶的基本價格上。

Next question, how does MicroVision balance pursuing high volume long-term automotive contracts with generating near term revenue through industrial LIDAR applications? I think let me take that question. I think this is a very interesting question, because I do believe that any company which solves this problem will be the last standing LIDAR company, given the state of the industry we are in, because obviously, as we have been discussing over the past few many calls, the OEMs really have only low volume projects, and really are requiring all LIDAR companies to put an investment on their own end, at their own dime, until the volumes really ramp up and take off, until the later part of the decade, given where the LIDAR adoption is in their economic cycle.

下一個問題是，MicroVision 如何在追求大批量長期汽車合約與透過工業雷射雷達應用產生短期收入之間取得平衡？我想讓我回答這個問題。我認為這是一個非常有趣的問題，因為我確實相信，考慮到我們所處的行業狀況，任何解決這個問題的公司都將成為最後一家光達公司，因為顯然，正如我們過去幾年一直在討論的那樣許多人呼籲，原始設備製造商實際上只有小批量項目，並且確實要求所有激光雷達公司自掏腰包進行投資，直到銷量真正增加並起飛，直到本世紀後期，考慮到激光雷達的採用處於其經濟週期的哪個位置。

Now obviously this makes or this makes the LIDAR companies really strategic to make sure that they can survive or invest prudently to be around, to be able to capture the volume because, like someone described, that's where the economies of scale will kick in, and that's where you sort of, you know, try and at that point, is going to have to come to industrial which not only helps reduce the cash burn, but also build confidence with the automotive OEMs. Because they understand the company has diversified revenue streams and which is able to sustain itself in the absence of high volume projects, because what the OEMs want is their supplier to have longevity and the visibility to be around for a long period of time and be able to withstand these economic cycles that go on.

顯然，這使得雷射雷達公司具有真正的戰略意義，以確保他們能夠生存或謹慎投資，能夠捕獲數量，因為，就像有人描述的那樣，這就是規模經濟發揮作用的地方，並且這就是你嘗試的地方，你知道，到那時，你必須進入工業領域，這不僅有助於減少現金消耗，而且還能建立汽車原始設備製造商的信心。因為他們了解公司擁有多元化的收入來源，並且能夠在沒有大批量項目的情況下維持自身，因為原始設備製造商希望他們的供應商能夠長期存在並具有可見性並能夠承受這些持續的經濟週期。

So the way we believe that we have positioned the company well is executing on this near to short term industrial applications, while we continue pursuing the automotive and like I said, some of the industrial factors I described others, the competition is going to thin out. Because obviously, that's sort of how the economic cycles are playing out, but ultimately that's how we believe that we're going to be the last ending LIDAR company, given our strategy to execute on these opportunities and wait for the automotive revenues to ramp up in the later part of the decade.

因此，我們相信我們對公司的定位是在近短期的工業應用上執行，同時我們繼續追求汽車，就像我說的，我描述的一些工業因素其他因素，競爭將會減弱。因為顯然，這就是經濟週期的發展方式，但最終我們相信，鑑於我們執行這些機會並等待汽車收入增加的策略，我們將成為最後一家結束的雷射雷達公司在這十年的後半段。

Next question, what is MicroVision's strategy for navigating the evolving landscape of Tier 1 suppliers in the automotive industry. How do you plan to leverage relationships with Tier 1 to secure high volume LIDAR contracts? Are any automotive RFQs still expected to be awarded this year or will they be in 2025?

下一個問題是，MicroVision 應對汽車產業一級供應商不斷變化的格局的策略是什麼。您計劃如何利用與 1 級的關係來獲得大批量 LIDAR 合約？預計今年還是會在 2025 年給予汽車詢價？

I'll take that so I'll start with the last section first, Are any of the RFQs planned to be awarded this at the end of this year? We're in November right now, and I would cautiously optimistic, but I would say that the OEMs are working on their inner strategy. They're adjusting what they need and how they want to incorporate it, but this also goes into your question about Tier 1, and I think I mentioned this at a couple weeks ago when we had our Q&A session. Just remind everybody so I was in a meeting and meeting with an OEM, and they clearly indicated that it'd be great that if a Tier 1 would provide solution and mail, you should partner with it and we said, okay, you know, we're open to that.

我將首先從最後一部分開始，是否有計劃在今年年底授予此詢價？現在正值 11 月份，我持謹慎樂觀的態度，但我想說 OEM 正在製定其內部策略。他們正在調整他們的需求以及他們想要如何整合它，但這也涉及到你關於第一層的問題，我想我在幾週前舉行問答會議時提到過這一點。請提醒大家，我正在與 OEM 進行一次又一次的會議，他們明確表示，如果一級供應商能夠提供解決方案和郵件，那麼您應該與它合作，我們說，好吧，你知道，我們對此持開放態度。

And immediately the answer was, well, yeah, but we don't like those guys because they charge too much. And it's, you know, really, you guys are inventor of it, and we get better service from you directly. So this paradox exists with the OEMs, not the Tier 1s. We will collaborate with any Tier 1 as a directed by agreement that an OEM would like us to do.

立即得到的答案是，嗯，是的，但我們不喜歡那些人，因為他們收費太高。事實上，你們是它的發明者，我們直接從你們那裡得到更好的服務。因此，這個悖論存在於原始設備製造商中，而不是一級供應商。我們將按照 OEM 希望我們做的協議指示與任何一級機構合作。

But as you can see, that the tier ones, if you just follow the news, they're retrenching in other technologies that is their core technology, so they are not looking to take on bigger projects. But the real issue is that if you were to think about just the LIDAR, right? Every LIDAR company gets up, every CEO gets up, and they talk about how important it is, how much they're going to win.

但正如你所看到的，如果你只關注新聞，一級公司正在縮減其核心技術的其他技術，因此他們不打算承擔更大的項目。但真正的問題是，如果您只考慮光達，對嗎？每個光達公司都站起來，每個執行長都站起來，他們談論它有多重要，他們將贏得多少。

But this is my take on it. You got to think about not just the LIDAR. You got to think about the solution that they're providing. So I think I've talked about this maybe a little over a year ago. So I will remind investors, if you think about it's a vehicle, when you are a customer, you don't care what the technology inside is. What you care about is the NCAP rating.

但這是我的看法。您不僅要考慮光達。您必須考慮他們提供的解決方案。所以我想我可能在一年前就已經討論過這個問題了。所以我要提醒投資者，如果你把它想像成一個交通工具，當你是個客戶時，你並不在乎裡面的技術是什麼。您關心的是 NCAP 評級。

You have a 5 star NCAP rating in the product, and what's the piece price. To deliver that Tier 1s and OEMs look at LIDAR, radar camera modules, right ECUs, and put together a system that's affordable, they can deliver at a very certain cost. So just the LIDAR story is not complete. OEMs are looking at the entire system. So what takes so long is they're working through the valuation of what they can do this where the trade-off comes in, where people always ask the question, well, what do you think about imaging radar, and what's going to happen there?

您的產品在 NCAP 中獲得 5 星評級，單件價格是多少。為了實現這一目標，一級供應商和 OEM 會著眼於 LIDAR、雷達攝影機模組、合適的 ECU，並組裝一個經濟實惠的系統，他們可以以非常確定的成本提供服務。所以僅僅光達的故事並不完整。OEM 正在關注整個系統。因此，他們花了這麼長時間來評估他們可以做些什麼，其中需要權衡，人們總是問這樣的問題，嗯，你對成像雷達有何看法，以及那裡會發生什麼？

Look, I'll give you my take, and this is not just my take. This is coming from talking to quite a lot of people. Imaging radar is not a threat to us. It is a rather large piece of hardware that is very hard to integrate into a car. Antennas are complicated, and it's nowhere near the performance LIDAR gives them at lower cost. Okay?

聽著，我會給你我的看法，而這不僅僅是我的看法。這是與很多人交談後得出的結論。成像雷達對我們沒有威脅。這是一個相當大的硬件，很難整合到汽車中。天線很複雜，而且其性能遠不及雷射雷達以較低的成本提供的性能。好的？

So from a vantage point of high LIDAR get adopted, you could actually think about the problems the OEMs are solving. What is a acceptable level of L2, L2 plus or L3 features they want to incorporate, and what volumes in each one of those they can incorporate?

因此，從雷射雷達採用率較高的角度來看，您實際上可以思考原始設備製造商正在解決的問題。他們想要納入的 L2、L2 plus 或 L3 功能的可接受水平是多少，以及他們可以納入的每項功能的數量是多少？

One thing is completely common. Anybody that's trying to sell a LIDAR with $1000 or $1000 plus to the passenger vehicle, that's just hokey. There is no Tier 1 that's interested in that there's no OEM interested in that. So what we focus ourselves is solve the problems for scale that.

一件事是完全常見的。任何人試圖以 1000 美元或 1000 美元以上的價格向乘用車出售雷射雷達，這都是騙人的。沒有一級供應商對此感興趣，也沒有 OEM 對此感興趣。因此，我們關注的重點是解決規模化問題。

At some point, if they want us to scale the product, we can place an order for 5000 plus wafers. Everything's in silicon. Dice them up. Know how to assemble a fully automated line. Cost could be down, but we need to be able to put very, very large inventories at play. And that's how the economy scale comes in, and that's how the rollout is going to happen.

在某個時候，如果他們希望我們擴大產品規模，我們可以訂購 5000 多個晶圓。一切都在矽中。將它們切成丁狀。了解如何組裝全自動生產線。成本可能會下降，但我們需要能夠投入非常非常大的庫存。這就是經濟規模的產生方式，也是推廣的方式。

That's how the investors should think about it, that when you think about this OEM space. These are all the forces at play, and we will work with Tier 1. We will work with anybody. But there's other things in play beyond just the LIDAR for a choice that an OEM has to make.

當你考慮這個 OEM 領域時，這就是投資人應該如何思考的。這些都是起作用的力量，我們將與第一層合作。我們將與任何人合作。但是，除了光達之外，OEM 還必須做出選擇，還有其他因素在起作用。

Thanks, Sumit. For model year 2028 do you anticipate the automotive OEMs will be selecting LIDAR partnerships in the near future. We understand that it's their timeline, but based on your knowledge of the product development negotiation cycle, give us your best estimate on that timeline at this moment.

謝謝，蘇米特。對於 2028 年車型，您預計汽車原始設備製造商將在不久的將來選擇雷射雷達合作夥伴關係嗎？我們知道這是他們的時間表，但根據您對產品開發談判週期的了解，請向我們提供您目前對該時間表的最佳估計。

Yeah. I think typically a automotive OEM cycle for any kind of development is three years. So as 2024 is ending, 2025 is coming, this is about the right time they have to make selection. Then what happens is that we have to develop the product, you know, all the middleware. So the LIDAR can plug into the entire car system, and the software works.

是的。我認為任何類型的開發的汽車 OEM 週期通常都是三年。那麼2024年即將結束，2025年即將到來，這正是他們必須做出選擇的時候。然後發生的事情是我們必須開發產品，你知道，所有的中間件。因此，光達可以插入整個汽車系統，並且軟體可以運行。

You know, that work is done by somebody else. And we do our part of it, that goes in there but what they really want is that they get sensors from us that have the final quality point cloud and perception that they need and then they have a lengthy period of time where they take those B samples, and they have to do a lot of validation testing, meaning that you have to drive these built cars around different roads all over the world to collect enough data to make sure they can validate the solution, not just the LIDAR, the solution they're providing meets and exceeds the expectations that has been set forth by them.

你知道，這項工作是由別人完成的。我們做了我們的一部分，但他們真正想要的是他們從我們這裡得到感測器，這些感測器具有他們需要的最終質量點雲和感知，然後他們有很長一段時間來獲取這些B樣品，他們必須做大量的驗證測試，這意味著你必須在世界各地的不同道路上駕駛這些製造的汽車來收集足夠的數據，以確保他們可以驗證解決方案，而不僅僅是激光雷達，他們的解決方案我們提供的服務滿足並超越了他們提出的期望。

So from a vantage point, yeah, you know, the products will take about three, two and a half years, but a majority of that is the OEMs validation cycle. So we work very closely to get to that final RTL, final ASIC, final image quality. So when we show things right now, they can see what the final point cloud could be and how stable it is and how much manufacturing has replaced. And that's what the schedules are dictated by, is how much time do they need to develop and it comes down to if every OEM is doing a slightly different variant of a feature, they will have their own timelines go develop their part of the software and their validation planning.

因此，從有利的角度來看，是的，您知道，產品將需要大約三年、兩年半的時間，但其中大部分是原始設備製造商的驗證週期。因此，我們密切合作，以實現最終的 RTL、最終的 ASIC、最終的影像品質。因此，當我們現在展示東西時，他們可以看到最終的點雲可能是什麼、它有多穩定以及有多少製造業被取代。這就是時間表所決定的，他們需要多少時間來開發，歸根結底，如果每個 OEM 都在做一個稍微不同的功能變體，他們將有自己的時間表來開發他們的軟體部分，他們的驗證計劃。

Thanks, Sumit. What is MicroVision's perspective on the current competitive landscape in the LIDAR industry. How do you differentiate your technology solutions and business model from other key players? We see competitors facing financial challenges, which seems to place micro-bids in a strong position. How does the company intend to convert disadvantage into profitability?

謝謝，蘇米特。MicroVision對目前雷射雷達產業的競爭格局有何看法？您如何使您的技術解決方案和商業模式與其他主要參與者區分開來？我們看到競爭對手面臨財務挑戰，這似乎使小額投標處於有利地位。公司打算如何將劣勢轉化為獲利能力？

Yeah. How do we intend to convert to profitability? What I'm excited about is scaling. A great question that was asked by Casey is, somebody comes to knock in, can you actually get to a certain volume? You know, to start going from where we are to start getting to, like, maybe 40,000 - 50,000 units a year? That's really good scaling. That's only possible because the products have been designed with mass replication as the bottom core.

是的。我們打算如何轉化為獲利？讓我興奮的是規模化。凱西問的一個很好的問題是，有人來敲門，你真的能達到一定的音量嗎？你知道，從我們現在的位置開始，每年的產量可能會達到 40,000 - 50,000 輛？這確實是一個很好的擴充。這是可能的，因為產品的設計以大規模複製為底層核心。

You have to start with the understanding I may have to replicate something our differentiation is when I think about the MOVIA L, future MOVIA S, think about MAVIN. I think about in terms of wafer. You steer the beam from MAVIN. I think about a mems wafer. I don't have to think about prisms. I don't have to think about electrostatic mirrors. You know, there's mems mirror but we do electromagnetic which is much more robust we can actually scale and we've done that. I mean, we ship hundreds of 100s and 1,000s units to Sony. We did quite a lot of volume with Microsoft, as you all got enough, so we know we can scale that. And of course, on the other side is the sequential flash product, the MOVIA product that also can be scaled, and it just comes down to the amount of silicon.

你必須從這樣的理解開始：當我想到 MOVIA L、未來的 MOVIA S、想到 MAVIN 時，我可能必須複製一些我們的差異化之處。我從晶圓角度考慮。您控制來自 MAVIN 的光束。我想到了MEMS晶圓。我不必考慮棱鏡。我不必考慮靜電鏡。你知道，有MEMS鏡子，但我們做電磁鏡，它更強大，我們實際上可以擴展，而且我們已經做到了。我的意思是，我們向索尼運送了數百個 100 台和 1,000 台設備。我們與微軟合作了相當多的數量，因為你們都已經足夠了，所以我們知道我們可以擴展它。當然，另一邊是順序快閃記憶體產品，MOVIA產品也可以擴展，這只是歸結為矽的數量。

So for me, that's the number one thing I think about that how would you actually scale it and is there a competitive landscape? Everybody else is out there talking, right? You know, look at their steering. How did they steer the beam? How do they actually get the laser to the points there is, then on the other side is, what wavelength are they using? We use 95 nanometer lasers, (inaudible) lasers all combined. So again, this is in a space that could be scaled.

所以對我來說，這是我考慮的第一件事，你將如何實際擴展它以及是否存在競爭格局？其他人都在外面說話，對吧？你知道，看看他們的方向盤。他們是如何控制光束的？他們如何真正將雷射到達那裡，那麼另一方面，他們使用什麼波長？我們使用 95 奈米雷射器，（聽不清楚）所有雷射器的組合。再說一次，這是一個可以擴展的空間。

Other people that are doing 1550 nanometer, huge cost there. They're not very clear about, like, really, how are they going to get to the hundreds of dollars? You know, some $1000 for an automotive OEM and for industrial space, right? Can't charge, you know, 5-6-7-8, $20,000 per sensor. And think about any kind of scaling. There's a niche market there. If you think about those layers, those tranches I'm talking about, imagine the higher up you go, the economy scales have to kick in.

其他人正在做 1550 奈米，那裡的成本很高。他們不太清楚，真的，他們將如何獲得數百美元？您知道，汽車 OEM 和工業空間大約需要 1000 美元，對嗎？無法充電，你知道，5-6-7-8，每個感測器 20,000 美元。並考慮任何形式的擴展。那裡有一個利基市場。如果你考慮一下我所說的那些層面，那些部分，想像你走得越高，經濟規模就必須開始發揮作用。

So our competitive advantage to everybody is I can scale at price points that are very competitive, actually, and we will enable them faster, whereas others will have to do a lot more sales job as in, like, you know what value they have, because their piece price is so high for an application, and they're going to struggle with it.

因此，我們對每個人的競爭優勢是，我可以在非常有競爭力的價格點進行擴展，實際上，我們將更快地實現它們，而其他人將不得不做更多的銷售工作，例如，你知道他們有什麼價值，因為他們的應用程式單價太高了，他們會為此苦苦掙扎。

And if I can quickly just recap, because I think the strategy is important as well, because to convert this advantage to get the scarcity premium, which will ultimately end up happening for any company that survives or at the last standing LIDAR company will command that premium. The way to get there is diversifying your revenue streams before the automotive volumes take off.

如果我能快速回顧一下，因為我認為戰略也很重要，因為將這種優勢轉化為稀缺性溢價，這最終將發生在任何倖存下來的公司或最後一家激光雷達公司將指揮的情況下優質的。實現這一目標的方法是在汽車銷售起飛之前實現收入來源多元化。

And in that process, you have to keep your burn low as well, because I think especially now that we have an institutional investor with us as well. Because I think making sure running a lean shop is very important. Because I think everybody is now going to be looking at LIDAR companies as the time taken to get to cash flow breakeven. And I think the way to think about this is what revenue will support each and every LIDAR company's cash burn until they turn the corner and become cash flow positive.

在這個過程中，你也必須保持低燒錢，因為我認為特別是現在我們也有機構投資者。因為我認為確保精實營運非常重要。因為我認為現在每個人都會將光達公司視為實現現金流收支平衡所需的時間。我認為思考這個問題的方法是，什麼收入將支持每家雷射雷達公司的現金消耗，直到他們渡過難關並實現正現金流。

And just assuming 30% gross margin, I think all investors should be looking at almost multiplying the cash burn by three is what is the revenue potential, or the revenue quantum needed for LIDAR companies to be cash flow breakeven, and that's sort of how all the large financial institutions would be looking at this industry. As this industry gets more mature and the time to cash flow break even gets closer and closer.

假設毛利率為 30%，我認為所有投資者都應該考慮將現金消耗幾乎乘以三的收入潛力，或者激光雷達公司實現現金流收支平衡所需的收入量，這就是所有的方法大型金融機構都會關注這個行業。隨著這個產業越來越成熟，現金流收支平衡的時間也越來越近。

Next question, can you discuss the types of customizations OEMs typically request for LIDAR solutions? What are the implications of these customizations on MicroVision's development timelines and cost.

下一個問題，您能否討論一下 OEM 通常要求 LIDAR 解決方案的客製化類型？這些客製化對 MicroVision 的開發時間表和成本有何影響？

Customization, so let's start from the middle up. The real customization starts with the interface. Every vehicle, you think about it, it says got its own language. Every OEM has got its own language. How different things plug in together and talk there's a significant amount of work has to be done in software development to get those interfaces right and get them automotive qualified, and this is all custom for them.

定制，所以讓我們從中間開始。真正的定制從介面開始。每輛車，你想一想，它都有自己的語言。每個 OEM 都有自己的語言。不同的東西如何插入在一起並進行交談，在軟體開發中必須完成大量工作才能使這些介面正確並使其符合汽車資格，而這都是為他們量身定制的。

So if you think about earlier this year, we're talking about a OEM and there's a lot of customization, and they wanted to pay only a portion the NRE, none of the work that we do is reusable for anybody else. So that's kind of challenging, where you could have $45 million to $55 million worth of software customization.

因此，如果你想想今年早些時候，我們談論的是 OEM，有很多定制，他們只想支付一部分 NRE，我們所做的任何工作都不能被其他人重複使用。因此，這有點具有挑戰性，因為您可能需要價值 4500 萬至 5500 萬美元的軟體客製化服務。

And they only want to pay $8 million for it. And you can't reuse any of the work anywhere anyway, so you have to find a way to amortize that. And then they get it done on the piece price. So that's the big part of it. There's a quite a lot there. A lot of people have to work on that because, you know, you have a beautiful point cloud.

他們只想為此支付 800 萬美元。無論如何，你不能在任何地方重複使用任何工作，所以你必須找到一種方法來攤銷它。然後他們以單價完成。這就是其中的重要部分。那裡有很多。很多人必須為此努力，因為你知道，你有一個漂亮的點雲。

You have beautiful perception, but it has to be able to talk directly to their system. And there's quite a lot of safety and security and stack that we have to go through. There's not that much customization on the hardware. Because when we work on anything like for example, for the longest time, I said, you know, well, MicroVision MAVIN product is going to do up to 14.7 million points per points per second. Not every customer wants that.

你有美麗的感知，但它必須能夠直接與他們的系統對話。我們必須經歷很多安全和保障問題。硬體上沒有太多客製化。因為當我們從事諸如此類的工作時，在最長的時間內，我說，你知道，MicroVision MAVIN 產品將每秒處理高達 1470 萬點。並非每個客戶都希望如此。

So some of them want, you know, only in a region of interest, much higher resolution. They want lower in the sides, lower up in the upper two quadrants, upper left and upper right, because that's just really pointing in the sky, most often to save power. And that's the configuration the difference that's done in the firmware that allows for them to get it's the same scanning that we're doing, but they get their customized point cloud in there.

因此，他們中的一些人只希望在感興趣的區域獲得更高的解析度。他們希望側面較低，上兩個像限較低，左上和右上，因為那隻是真正指向天空，通常是為了節省電力。這就是韌體中所做的配置差異，允許他們獲得與我們正在做的相同的掃描，但他們在那裡獲得客製化的點雲。

Again, software customization, but there's very little hardware customization, if any of mounting holes and brackets and connectors, right, perhaps there, but I would say 80% of everything, even maybe 90% of everything, is really in the software side, internal and of course, middleware.

再說一次，軟體定制，但硬體定制很少，如果有任何安裝孔、支架和連接器，對吧，也許有，但我想說，80%，甚至可能 90%，實際上是在軟體方面，內部的，當然還有中間件。

And how much of the competitive advantage pieces of MAVIN revolved around dynamic view. Now, the OEMs have requested the company to make it simpler, and this feature no longer seems to be a game changer. So what is left that keeps making MAVIN superior and outlast any other LIDAR product?

MAVIN 的競爭優勢有多少是圍繞著動態視圖展開的。現在，原始設備製造商已要求該公司使其變得更簡單，而此功能似乎不再能改變遊戲規則。那麼，還有什麼可以讓 MAVIN 保持卓越並比任何其他光達產品更耐用呢？

Yeah. Listen the dynamic through LIDAR if you actually take a look at it, and if you know what you're looking at, there's nothing out there that can actually fill in the Point Cloud as densely in the different fields of view as possible. So it establishes the very edge of the limitation of physics. You can't fire more pulses.

是的。如果您實際觀察光達，則可以透過光達聆聽動態，如果您知道自己在看什麼，那麼就沒有任何東西可以真正在不同視野中盡可能密集地填充點雲。因此它確立了物理學限制的最邊緣。你無法發射更多脈衝。

You have multi-pulses to begin with, multi uniquely encoded pulses. That's unique feature to begin with. So here we have all these different high density work that's been done. Ultimately, the OEMs decided that great, but our software can't handle what -- we didn't do love, develop the dynamic view LIDAR, just on your own volition. I mean, we always thought it was the right thing to develop, but we had OEMs that said, you know, they would want to see it, right. So we developed it.

首先，您有多個脈衝，多個唯一編碼的脈衝。這就是獨特的功能。所以這裡我們已經完成了所有這些不同的高密度工作。最終，原始設備製造商的決定很好，但我們的軟體無法處理什麼 - 我們不喜歡開發動態視圖雷射雷達，只是按照您自己的意願。我的意思是，我們一直認為開發這是正確的事情，但我們的原始設備製造商說，你知道，他們希望看到它，對吧。所以我們開發了它。

They've seen it, but on their side, it's just a massive amount of data, and their team would prefer more fixed pixels. We could do fixed pixels, right? I mean, we were a display company for the longest period of time, and we're very good at fixed pixels. So the latest demos that you may have seen, the videos of that we put up those are fixed pixels, and they look really dense, really well done also. So it actually gets down to what they put in the specs we're also able to achieve.

他們已經看到了，但從他們的角度來看，這只是大量數據，他們的團隊更喜歡更固定的像素。我們可以做固定像素，對嗎？我的意思是，我們是一家經營時間最長的顯示器公司，而且我們非常擅長固定像素。所以你可能看過的最新演示，我們發布的影片都是固定像素的，它們看起來非常密集，也做得很好。因此，這實際上取決於他們在我們也能夠實現的規格中所提出的內容。

So what sort of differentiation? Well, the differentiation still remains. It's a very high quality point cloud. It is low in profile. It's low power and the cost. I mean, that's actually number one, that it is a predictable cost as they go to scaling. So even as they get in the MAVIN product but as I think about the future, and you know, what they're asking for is a significant amount of performance right to be able to get into the target prices that they have, that's very compelling.

那麼什麼樣的差異化呢？嗯，差異化仍然存在。這是一個非常高品質的點雲。它的外形較低。它的功耗和成本都很低。我的意思是，這實際上是第一，在擴展時這是可預測的成本。因此，即使他們使用 MAVIN 產品，但當我考慮未來時，你知道，他們所要求的是大量的性能，以便能夠達到他們的目標價格，這是非常引人注目的。

So I think the technical people on the call are investors. Like, sometimes, you know, they don't value this, but I would say our capability to maintain cost for our customers, scaling on silicon. It's actually a big differentiator.

所以我認為參加電話會議的技術人員都是投資者。就像，有時，你知道，他們並不重視這一點，但我想說的是，我們有能力為客戶維持成本，在晶片上進行擴展。這實際上是一個很大的區別。

All right, we can always do the dynamically LIDAR. We demonstrate it to them. We have it if their teams ever needed it for a special application we can be that one stop shop, LIDAR shop that can do it. On the MOVIA side we have our current MOVIA sensor. It's kind of large, you know, it was designed in a different time. It's good for trucking. I think it's good, definitely good for industrial.

好吧，我們總是可以做動態光達。我們向他們展示它。如果他們的團隊需要它用於特殊應用，我們可以提供一站式服務，光達商店可以做到這一點。在 MOVIA 方面，我們擁有目前的 MOVIA 感測器。它有點大，你知道，它是在不同的時間設計的。這對卡車運輸很有好處。我認為這很好，絕對有利於工業。

But pretty soon, you're going to start seeing some marketing work we're going to do of what the future MOVIA S is going to look like and this thing is, I would say a couple of snicker fun size bar next to each other. It's tiny. And you can imagine putting into a car where it's not so obscene, you know, would not be taking big portions of the car, and it could give you a 360 degree cocoon, something that even a corner mounted radar 180 degrees or 207 degrees can't do, all right?

但很快，你就會開始看到我們要做的一些行銷工作，關於未來 MOVIA S 的外觀，我想說的是，兩個相鄰的有趣尺寸條。它很小。你可以想像把它放進一輛不那麼淫穢的汽車裡，你知道，不會佔用汽車的很大一部分，而且它可以給你一個360 度的繭，即使是角落安裝的180 度或207 度雷達也可以做到這一點不做，好嗎？

And this is going to be a game changer, essentially, because it will be higher volume, and that product as well, has the same principles of how it advances, where we have a certain high resolution product that's been created is differentiated and the perception software is already provided to them that allows them to even the automotive space to incorporate these features faster and at lower cost.

從本質上講，這將改變遊戲規則，因為它將具有更高的產量，並且該產品也具有相同的發展原理，我們所創建的某種高分辨率產品是差異化的，並且感知已經向他們提供了軟體，使他們能夠在汽車領域更快、以更低的成本整合這些功能。

So cost may not sound sexy to people, but it's actually probably the most important variable. The technology exists there and I can talk to you about, you know, our technology is better than somebody else, but it's technology at cost is a real metric.

因此，成本對人們來說可能聽起來並不性感，但它實際上可能是最重要的變數。技術就在那裡，我可以和你談談，你知道，我們的技術比其他人更好，但它的技術成本是一個真正的衡量標準。

If you think about can be delivered at a cost. So if you go buy a car, is it only available in the car that's $100,000 or can you actually incorporate this in a car that's going to be $40,000 someday? So that's one of the differentiation that we control, which is the overall cost of the system. We can help reduce that.

如果您考慮可以付費交貨。那麼，如果你去買一輛車，它是只適用於 100,000 美元的汽車，還是你真的可以將它整合到有一天售價 40,000 美元的汽車中？這就是我們控制的差異化之一，即係統的整體成本。我們可以幫助減少這種情況。

Thanks, Sumit. The next question is the Mobileye CEO during their company's recent earnings call seemed to suggest that imaging radar may eliminate the need for LIDAR in the future, possibly all LIDAR, but most likely, in any case, short range LIDAR, such as MOVIA. How does MicroVision view these comments? And what impact this could, but then this potential shift could have on MAVIN and MOVIA's future?

謝謝，蘇米特。下一個問題是，Mobileye 執行長在公司最近的財報電話會議上似乎暗示，成像雷達可能會消除未來對LIDAR 的需求，可能全部是LIDAR，但無論如何，最有可能的是短距離LIDAR，例如MOVIA。MicroVision如何看待這些評論？這可能會產生什麼影響，但這種潛在的轉變可能會對 MAVIN 和 MOVIA 的未來產生什麼影響？

Yeah. I think he's running a company that's got, like, you know, billions of dollars in market cap. They have done billions of dollars worth of revenue, I respect him. If you ever see a imaging radar, it's pretty large and chunky and the number of channels that they would have in the 1000s, whereas the number of channels we're providing is in the millions.

是的。我認為他經營著一家市值數十億美元的公司。他們創造了價值數十億美元的收入，我尊重他。如果您見過成像雷達，您會發現它非常大且厚實，並且它們擁有的通道數量為數千個，而我們提供的通道數量為數百萬個。

So the overall density of the point cloud and power at the low cost, and the low profile, the small side of the LIDAR, it makes it pretty compelling. I think I do believe it was Mobileye also, I don't know who this was. I think I believe it was the CEO on the last call saying time of flight LIDARS. I mean, they got out of the LIDAR business, right?

因此，點雲的整體密度和低成本的功率，以及低輪廓、雷射雷達的小側面，使其非常引人注目。我想我也相信那是 Mobileye，但我不知道這是誰。我想我相信是執行長在最後一次通話中提到了飛行時間雷射雷達。我的意思是，他們退出了雷射雷達業務，對吧？

The time flight LIDARs are at a point and a cost point that really is very, very compelling and competitive, right? So clearly, where we are imaging radar, the only thing they provide is velocity. Well, there's plenty of radar that may not have this massive pipeline of points compared to a radar, but it's nowhere near its orders of magnitude, less than what a LIDAR is already providing.

時間飛行雷射雷達正處於一個非常非常具有吸引力和競爭力的點和成本點，對吧？很明顯，在我們的成像雷達中，它們唯一提供的就是速度。好吧，與雷達相比，有很多雷達可能沒有如此龐大的點管道，但它的數量級遠不及光達已經提供的數量級。

Velocity could be done. And again, you can fuse radar and LIDAR, align these clusters and assign the velocity that a radar sees to a high density cluster from a LIDAR. And some of those radars can be as cheap as $40, $60 right? So they are on the cheaper side of it. So we get velocity that can be done at a very low cost, compelling manner and quite a lot of radars are sold. But if you really want to do safety. And you want to do these kind of high speed [hydro] pilot applications or low velocity urban applications, you're going to need a measurement device that's small and cheap, incorporated in the car, that is affordable, and it's giving you a direct measurement on millions of points in the field of view.

速度可以做到。同樣，您可以融合雷達和光達，對齊這些集群，並將雷達看到的速度分配給光達的高密度集群。其中一些雷達的價格可能低至 40 美元、60 美元，對嗎？所以他們處於更便宜的一面。因此，我們能夠以非常低的成本、令人信服的方式實現速度，並售出相當多的雷達。但如果你真的想做安全的話。如果您想要進行此類高速[水力]試點應用或低速城市應用，您將需要一個小型且便宜的測量設備，安裝在汽車中，價格實惠，並且它可以為您提供直接的測量結果。中數百萬個點進行測量。

So I respectfully believe that LIDAR, I mean, very, very competitive for the solution that is needed. And it is unclear if imaging radar is going to have the inroads that they want for the features, if it was the same features side by side, I don't believe that imaging radar can do it without a lot of help.

因此，我恭敬地相信光達對於所需的解決方案來說非常非常有競爭力。目前尚不清楚成像雷達是否會在功能上取得他們想要的進展，如果並排具有相同的功能，我不相信成像雷達可以在沒有大量幫助的情況下做到這一點。

Thanks. Amit, we do have more questions, but I guess we're coming up on the top of the hour. So maybe I'll take one more question. What steps is MicroVision taking to attract more analyst coverage and increase visibility amongst institutional investors.

謝謝。阿米特，我們確實還有更多問題，但我想我們正在趕上時間。也許我會再問一個問題。MicroVision 正在採取哪些措施來吸引更多分析師的注意並提高機構投資者的知名度。

So let me take that question so. So I think this convertible financing is actually, I believe, is a very transformative step in MicroVision's Evolution, because what we have done it successfully. As part of this process, like I mentioned, attracted several financial institutions which submitted their term sheets, and we ended up selecting the partner based on their track record.

那麼就讓我這樣回答這個問題吧。因此，我認為這種可轉換融資實際上是 MicroVision 發展過程中非常具有變革性的一步，因為我們已經成功地做到了這一點。正如我所提到的，作為此過程的一部分，吸引了多家金融機構提交了投資意向書，我們最終根據他們的業績記錄選擇了合作夥伴。

And what I think this does is this has actually improved our visibility quite a bit, because obviously now we are on the radar of -- because of this strong credit profile, we're on the radar of almost all fixed income investors. Given when one investor comes in on board, you can imagine all the other peers start tracking companies, their portfolio companies, and their investee companies, to track their return and performance.

我認為這實際上大大提高了我們的知名度，因為顯然現在我們受到了——由於這種強大的信用狀況，我們幾乎受到了所有固定收益投資者的關注。考慮到當投資者加入時，你可以想像所有其他同行都開始追蹤公司、他們的投資組合公司和他們的被投資公司，以追蹤他們的回報和績效。

And I think that's sort of what I believe has been a very interesting observation, which, I think, which came out as part of the process as well. What I described is as this LIDAR industry gets -- becomes more mature and the crowd is thinning, the focus on running a very steady business with a clear sight to achieve cash flow breakeven, and not just promises and big revenue numbers being thrown around is going to be the key.

我認為這是一個非常有趣的觀察結果，我認為這也是整個過程的一部分。我所描述的是，隨著這個雷射雷達行業變得更加成熟，人群越來越少，重點是經營一個非常穩定的業務，並有清晰的願景來實現現金流收支平衡，而不僅僅是承諾和大量的收入數字將成為關鍵。

So execution is going to be the key no matter what. And I think what I described earlier as a company which would be able to come out successfully and will command that premium, that scarcity premium, and all others have sort of whirled out, is going to be the revenue mix and the diversification of revenue of the portfolio, which in turn, even bolsters confidence among the new and existing customers.

所以無論如何，執行力都是關鍵。我認為我之前所描述的一家能夠成功脫穎而出並獲得溢價、稀缺溢價以及所有其他溢價的公司將是收入組合和收入多元化。

As you have multiple streams as a business, as you have multiple streams of revenue supporting your cash flow and your path to profitability. So I think all these are, we have already established quite a lot of success in improving our visibility amongst the financial community.

作為一個企業，您擁有多種收入來源，因此您有多種收入來源來支持您的現金流和盈利之路。所以我認為所有這些，我們在提高我們在金融界的知名度方面已經取得了相當大的成功。

And this transaction is just a highlight of that that such a reputed institution was able to partner with us on as a single investor, I think what investors should also appreciate as a single investor, putting in this quantum of capital to work is again a sign of confidence and a vote of trust in the company's future and the sector.

而這筆交易只是一個亮點，這樣一個知名機構能夠作為單一投資者與我們合作，我認為投資者也應該欣賞作為單一投資者的一點，投入這筆資金再次發揮作用是一個標誌對公司的未來和行業的信心和信任票。

With this what I do promise is for next quarter, we would be including some of these questions as well. And again, we thank you for your time, and we look forward to speak with you next year as part of our Q4 earnings call. Thank you, everybody.

我承諾在下個季度，我們也會提出其中一些問題。再次感謝您抽出時間，我們期待明年在第四季財報電話會議上與您交談。謝謝大家。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference. All parties may disconnect and have a great day.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。所有各方都可以斷開連接並度過愉快的一天。