明晟 (MSCI) 2018 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the MSCI Second Quarter 2018 Earnings Conference Call.

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

I would now look to turn the conference over to your host, Mr. Andrew Wiechmann, Head of Investor Relations, Strategy and Corporate Development.

You may begin.

Thank you, Bridget.

Good day, and welcome to the MSCI Second Quarter 2018 Earnings Conference Call.

Earlier this morning, we issued a press release announcing our results for the second quarter 2018.

A copy of the release and the slide presentation that we have prepared for this call may be viewed at msci.com under the Investor Relations tab.

Let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements.

You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which speak only as of the date on which they are made and are governed by the language on the second slide of today's presentation.

For a discussion of additional risks and uncertainties, please see the risk factors and forward-looking statements in our most recent Form 10-K and our other SEC filings.

During today's call, in addition to GAAP results, we also refer to non-GAAP measures, including but not limited to, adjusted EBITDA, adjusted EBITDA expenses, adjusted EPS and free cash flow.

We believe our non-GAAP measures facilitate meaningful period-to-period comparisons and provide a baseline for the evolution of results.

You'll find a reconciliation to the equivalent GAAP measures in the earnings materials and an explanation of why we deem this information to be meaningful as well as how management uses these measures on Pages 23 to 27 of the earnings presentation.

We will also discuss organic run rate growth figures, which exclude the impact of changes in foreign currency and the impact of acquisitions or divestitures.

On the call today are Henry Fernandez, our Chairman and CEO; Baer Pettit, our President; and Kathleen Winters our Chief Financial Officer.

With that, let me now turn the call over to Mr. Henry Fernandez.

Henry?

Thank you, Andy, and thank you to everyone for joining us today.

The record second quarter sales and the exceptional financial results are as a direct result of our deliberate and targeted investment in core strategic areas of our firm.

These investments, to accelerate growth and profitability, are centered around 3 areas: delivering actionable solutions; creating differentiated content; and flexible technology to develop that content and enable it for use of our clients.

Let me elaborate in each one of these areas.

First, actionable solutions refers to the usage of our products and services by our clients to achieve their specific investment objectives.

Such usage may involve single or multiple MSCI products or services.

The usage may also be supported by insights from our research team to help our clients understand how those tools can be utilized.

We have been aggressively enhancing these actionable solutions by building out our client coverage, our services, our research capabilities and making investments in this content and this technology.

As you know all too well, the investment industry is undergoing a massive transformation, with participants trying to sharpen their business models, creating efficiencies and scale, and trying to understand the drivers of performance and risk in their portfolios.

This transformation is creating a huge opportunity for MSCI, manifesting itself in the great success that we're having with our solution selling, which will Baer discuss in more detail later.

Secondly, our relentless innovation in differentiated content is based on key bets.

They are in equity content, such as our ESG ratings, our enhanced equity factor models, ESG and factor indices, as well as our broader range of global custom and specialized indices.

The key bets are also in fixed income and multi-asset class content, such as our new liquidity analytics, our enhanced library of cash flow models, our broader security coverage and our enhanced multi-asset class factor model; and also in private asset class content, such as our private equity and private real estate risk models and our new global real estate information products.

Thirdly, this bet in actionable solutions and in differentiated content will be enabled by our investments in state-of-the-art and flexible technology in everything we do, from accessing outside data processing to create content for us and for our clients and enabling the use of our content by our clients.

In the last category, we are developing a truly unique client platform that will greatly enhance the value of our content as well as content from our clients and third party -- and other third parties.

This client platform will provide functionality not currently available in the market and which will easily integrate within client workflows.

In the realm of technology, we're also increasingly employing proprietary and third-party machine learning and AI techniques to scale up our ability to gather and analyze data, automate and enhance the efficiency of many of our data processes as well as generate unique research insights for our models.

In summary, clients are just beginning to embrace the full range of capabilities across MSCI and this is showing up in the increased sales and also record financial results of the company.

Like Baer and our COO, Laurent Seyer, I've been spending half of my time on the road over the last year with C-level executives and many of the world's largest investment organizations.

What I hear from many of them is that they want more engagement from MSCI, to provide them with the products, the services, the research that they can use to help them solve their investment problems and capitalize on their business opportunities.

Therefore, we're tremendously energized by the enormous opportunities ahead of this firm.

We are further excited by our ability to attract very talented and experienced professionals.

In the last few months, we have announced the addition of the following senior executives.

Our new Chief Technology Officer and Head of Engineering, Jigar Thakkar, had an impressive track record at Microsoft in software engineering leadership positions.

Our new head of Client Solutions, Russell Read, over the last 2 decades served as the Chief Investment Officer of Alaska Permanent, Gulf Investment Corporation in Kuwait, and CALPERS in California.

Our new Head of Asia Pacific coverage, Jack Lin, brings over 20 years of experience at Amundi, Pioneer, Janus and Franklin Templeton.

George Harrington our new Global Head of Index, Futures and Options Licensing brings over 20 years of experience in financial markets and global exchanges at Bloomberg, most recently.

Stephane Mattatia, our new Head of Index Products in Europe, brings over 15 years of experience in structure products at Societe Generale.

And lastly, and not least, our new Global Controller, Jen Mak, joined us from Honeywell where she was the Controller and Principal Accounting Officer.

MSCI is becoming a magnet for extremely talented people with a mission to change the investment world.

I am confident it will help the MSCI franchise to scale new heights.

Lastly, we're obsessively focused on investing only in our most core and attractive growth areas.

We're highly disciplined about divesting of our product lines that are not fully aligned with our strategy, particularly if we do so at attractive market valuations.

We announced this week that we'll be divesting InvestorForce, reflecting our commitment to allocating capital to its most strategic and highest return possible.

This very intense focus on strategic core areas, effective capital allocation and maximum operating efficiency has allowed us to generate double-digit organic subscription run rate growth in Q2, substantially higher than the growth levels just a few years ago.

Given the numerous growth opportunities and our track record of execution, we are excited about our long-term outlook.

Let me now turn the call over to Baer.

Thank you, Henry.

I'll start on Slide 5, highlighting in more detail the manner in which we're serving clients in new and innovative ways.

The versatility and utility of our content and applications allow us to package our offerings for a wide range of use cases and help clients adapt to the fast-changing investment industry.

Driven by our keen focus on increasing market penetration, there's been growing momentum in many of our key client segments such as asset owners, asset managers, wealth managers and broker dealers.

Each segment experienced double-digit year-over-year subscription run rate growth and they collectively comprise around 85% of our subscription run rate.

Let me elaborate further in each of these categories, starting with asset owners.

Asset owners are increasingly insourcing portions of their investment activities.

Consequently, these clients are using our analytics, ES&G context and our indexes, including Factor and ES&G Indexes, to assist them with understanding their portfolio risks, managing their exposures and achieving their overall investment objectives.

Following a recent multiproduct solution sale, a large U.S. pension fund, who already uses our market cap indexes as policy benchmarks, will begin to implement factor strategies across their plan.

The pension fund chose to license our multi-asset class factor Analytics platform to support them in portfolio construction and risk management.

They also licensed our models to allow factor exposure reporting to their plan board and for evaluating the factor performance drivers of their active portfolio.

Additionally, they made an allocation to track an MSCI Factor Index, leading to downstream revenue for us.

Our client coverage and research teams with support from the executive team played a key role in helping the client understand how the range of our capabilities can be used together.

These type of opportunities have driven year-over-year subscription run rate growth of 16% across the asset owner client segment.

Turning to active asset managers.

This segment is increasingly looking to differentiate themselves and explain how they create value.

To enable this, active asset managers are turning to MSCI and leveraging our content, like Factor Analytics, to construct strategies that demonstrate differentiated alpha and manage factor bets.

Increasing numbers of clients are licensing our ES&G ratings to highlight favorable ES&G practices.

This is also our largest segment for multi-asset class risk and performance analytics.

These opportunities drove year-over-year subscription run rate growth of 11% across this client segment.

Within broker dealers, we're finding numerous new opportunities to help them better serve their retail and institutional clients with structured products like index-linked notes or factor overlay instruments, increasingly with ES&G tilts.

Overall, year-on-year subscription run rate growth was 10% within this segment.

This opportunity has been further enhanced by growing liquidity in the MSCI-based index and futures options markets.

Q2 run rate in futures and options based on our indexes was up approximately 36% year-on-year.

We're seeing similar One MSCI demand from wealth managers whose need to build model portfolios based on our indexes is helping to fuel 10%-plus growth rate within this client segment.

We are better able to identify these type of opportunities through enhanced go-to-market strategies.

In addition to our established client relationships at the user level, we are increasingly engaging the C-Suite at our clients and leveraging our research team to engage with investment professionals at our clients about how they can use our products and services to help them achieve better investment-related objectives.

Now let's turn to Slide 6. Slide 6 highlights some of the key statistics which reflect the benefits of these opportunities.

As you can see, more and more clients are using products from across all segments and our largest clients are growing at a higher growth rate than the rest.

We also see the benefits of these opportunities in our strategic account manager program.

Our strategic clients comprise our largest clients, representing 41% of our total subscription run rate and both key statistics such as 11% subscription run rate growth and 95.7% retention rate.

We have had a strong pipeline of new product enhancements in the first half of the year, which will continue into the next 2 quarters.

With that, I turn the call over to Kathleen.

Thanks, Baer, and hello to everyone on the call.

I'll start on Slide 7.

Q2 was a great quarter.

Our franchise is as strong as ever and we continue to execute at a high level as you can see by the exceptional revenue and EPS growth and strong cash flows.

We are executing many organic growth opportunities and building on our track record of delivering robust returns.

We remain very focused on driving a disciplined approach to our investments.

Revenue growth in the quarter was primarily driven by recurring subscription revenue, with continued strength in index and ESG, up 13% and 25%, respectively.

ABF revenue growth was fueled primarily by growth in AUM of equity ETF linked to our indexes, with average AUM in MSCI-linked equity ETFs up 31% from the same period last year.

This was largely driven by strong cash inflows over the last 12 months, with MSCI-linked equity ETFs capturing 21% of total market share over that period as well as market appreciation year-over-year.

On Slide 8, you can see the drivers of adjusted EPS growth.

Our strong execution in the quarter resulted in high-quality earnings growth, mainly driven by the operating momentum we continue to drive.

The EPS benefit from higher revenue is primarily driven by the tailwinds provided by our investments over the years in areas like factors and ESG and engagement with clients at the C-Suite level.

We experienced a positive impact as a result of tax reform and increased interest income from cash investments, partially offset by incremental interest expense due to the new financing.

Now let's turn to our segment results on Slide 10.

Within the Index segment, we had strong subscription revenue growth, driven by higher growth client segments like wealth managers, broker dealers, as well as asset managers coupled with outsized growth in our newer modules.

We continue to deliver new content.

For example, we launched 125 new China A indexes and expanded our ESG module history.

Our focus on expanding use cases and gaining new clients helped drive growth of 7% in our Analytics segment, excluding the impact of foreign currency and the divestiture of our FEA business.

Asset managers and asset owners were significant contributors with year-over-year run rate growth of 11% and 12%, respectively.

We remain cautiously optimistic about the momentum we are seeing.

Within Analytics, on July 30, we announced the planned divestiture of InvestorForce, which provides workflow services used by investment consultants to construct performance reports for their clients.

The sale is expected to close in late Q3 or early Q4.

In our All Other segment, the growth was mainly driven by ESG, with strong growth in EMEA, which represents 41% of total ESG run rate and strong growth in our ESG ratings products as investors increasingly integrate ESG into their investment processes.

Slide 11 provides a summary of our key operating metrics by segment.

Organic subscription run rate growth further accelerated, up 10.2%, substantially higher than the 4% level just 5 years ago.

Net new was up over 50% across all segments.

In Index, we had strong growth in asset-based fee and subscription run rate, up 21% and 12%, respectively.

We've had great momentum in asset-based fees as we continue to drive asset-owner mandates and licenses to our indexes for new equity ETFs and passive funds.

Within the Index subscription run rate, we generated 14% growth in EMEA due to continued expansion of content and deeper client engagement.

Asia also performed well, up 15%, driven by momentum in China and Japan.

Our largest client segment, asset managers, grew 10% in subscription run rate as our innovation continues to enhance our content and services.

We've also had great success with sales into segments like asset owners, growing 23%, and wealth managers, growing 29%.

We continue to gain traction in selling Factor and ESG modules with subscription run rate up 42% and 43%, respectively.

Custom and specialized modules have also performed very well, growing 22% and 20%, respectively.

Index recorded its best recurring sales quarter ever, and the Q2 Index retention rate remained very strong at 95.9%.

Within Analytics, the run rate growth was driven by continued success within our multi-asset class analytics, with run rate up 10%, and within our equity analytics, up 7%.

The Analytics retention rate was 92.1%.

Cancels in Analytics were higher compared to prior year and were driven by broker dealer and hedge fund clients where we saw client cost pressures with the closing of trading desks, hedge fund closures and partial cancellations at clients looking to reduce costs.

We're increasing our efforts around refining our go-to-market strategy and client service model to mitigate and offset cancel risks.

The recurring net new growth for Analytics was up 55.5% versus the prior year, with strength in sales of multi-asset class products to asset owners and asset managers.

On a first half basis, net new was up 15%, excluding the impact of the FEA divestiture.

Sales and cancel activity in this segment are lumpy due to the more sizable and complex deals in the pipeline.

Given this lumpiness, we look at the longer-term run rate trends as we assess and evaluate the performance of the product segment.

You can see by the momentum in our Analytics run rate that we continue to execute our road map to deliver improved growth.

Slide 12 highlights the drivers of our asset-based fees in more detail.

Equity ETFs linked to MSCI indexes now total slightly over 1,000 ETFs and reflect one of the most globally diversified group of ETFs in the industry, with about 20% exposure to the U.S. markets and the remainder spread across emerging markets and developed markets outside the U.S.

Year-to-date, we've licensed our indexes to 59 new equity ETFs, 38 of which are based on our Factor and ESG indexes.

The total number of equity ETFs benchmarked to our Factor and ESG indexes is 326, which represents 26% of all equity ETFs based on Factor and ESG indexes, more than any other provider.

Total AUM of these equity ETFs linked to our Factor and ESG indexes have grown by 36% compared to last year, bringing the total to $97 billion as of June 30.

Total AUM was down 2.6% from the end of Q1 and was primarily driven by a decline in market values and a modest cash outflow from equity ETF linked to our indexes.

We saw cash flows predominantly moving into U.S. and global equity ETFs and out of emerging markets and developed markets outside the U.S. The market decline in flows out of EM and DM ex U.S. also impacted the average basis points, given that these ETFs are typically relatively higher fee products.

Looking at our mix, cash inflows went primarily into products with lower total expense ratios, which tend to carry lower average basis-point fees.

We continue to expect lower fee products to capture a disproportionate share of new flows into equity ETFs, and we expect a further decline in our average basis-point fee levels as part of our efforts to achieve continued run rate growth.

Our ETF partners are continually evaluating their market opportunities for existing and new products as well as the optimal positioning and pricing of those products.

And as such, we have discussions with all of our key partners about our fees and fee constructs on an ongoing basis.

Now let's turn to Slide 13 where we provide some additional detail on the quarterly net cash flows of equity ETFs linked to MSCI indexes.

Given the movement this quarter, we think it's important to provide some commentary around the Q2 flows and our longer-term view of the space.

Let's start with what happened will global flows.

As you know, there was an overall slowdown in global flows into equity ETFs during Q2.

Specifically, there was $60 billion in net flows in Q2 into equity ETFs, which was only about half of the $120 billion average over the last 5 quarters.

Furthermore, of that $60 billion, about 80% went into U.S. equity ETFs as investors are favoring U.S. exposure.

There were several factors that drove the slowdown in geographic rotations.

Investors have heightened uncertainty due to international trade tensions and geopolitical risks.

These concerns, coupled with and related to the strengthening of the U.S. dollar and recent international market underperformance, drove investors out of emerging markets and developed markets ex U.S. and into U.S. funds, including higher quality fixed income funds.

Now turning to MSCI's specific flows.

These dynamics resulted in net outflows from equity ETFs linked to MSCI indexes during the second quarter.

On a first half basis, we had strong flows and market share gains.

ETFs based on our indexes captured flows across all markets and into key growth areas such as Factor and ESG indexes.

In emerging markets, ETFs based on our indexes captured flows of about 36%, reflecting our strength outside the U.S. and significantly higher share of equity ETFs in these markets.

ETFs based on our Factor and ESG indexes on a combined basis captured 25% of flows.

And U.S. equity ETF linked to MSCI indexes captured 14% of flows, markedly higher than the 10% we captured in all of 2017.

We remain confident in the long-term secular trends in the ETF space and our strategy of structuring our licensing agreements with ETF providers to increase our market share through volume growth to drive long-term run rate growth.

If there's ongoing market volatility, we believe we are well positioned to manage through periods of downturn given the strength of our subscription business and the readiness of our downturn playbook.

If you look at the last 10 years through other market downturns, our index subscription run rates have continued to perform well, growing around 10% or higher each year.

Turning to Analytics, Slide 14 provides you with additional detail on the Analytics trajectory.

Following investments and restructuring initiatives over the last several years, we've driven gradual improvement in both run rate growth and margin.

We continue to enhance our offerings and go-to-market efforts and have seen accelerating growth in our focus areas of equity analytics and multi-asset class analytics.

These 2 areas make up nearly 90% of the Analytics run rate.

Additionally, equity analytics is a key component of and differentiator for our Factor Indexes, providing a key benefit to our high-growth Factor Index franchise.

Outside of these areas, we have a few smaller product offerings, which have had lower or negative growth.

For certain products, we are in the process of enhancing the capabilities and migrating functionalities to improve growth.

For noncore products, we have divested these offerings, with the divestiture of FEA in Q2 and the recently announced sale of InvestorForce Holdings.

Run rates for FEA and InvestorForce represented approximately $8 million and $17 million, respectively, and we do not expect a meaningful impact to the expense base as a result of the divestitures given our continued focus on investing in other areas to drive growth.

On Slide 15, we provide an update on 2 strategically key areas of integrated content innovation where our bets are clearly paying off.

Our growth in factors continues to be driven by the growing interest in diversifying exposures and understanding and designing portfolios around factors as clients seek to provide differentiated investment products.

Regarding ESG, new clients drove about 50% of recurring sales in the quarter.

As ESG increasingly becomes an integral part of the investment process, we're focused on maintaining our position as a leader in the space.

We continue to invest in our capabilities, broadening our ratings coverage, which currently stands at 13,000 issuers.

We continue to scale up, supporting our global team of over 170 research analysts with increasing use of AI and machine learning technologies.

As of June 30, there was nearly $11 billion of AUM in equity ETFs linked to our ESG Index, which grew 74% year-over-year.

Turning to the next section, we provide an update on our capital liquidity and our 2018 guidance.

On Slide 17, we provide our key balance sheet indicators.

With the completion of our $500 million notes offering in May, our leverage has increased slightly above the high end of our targeted leverage range.

The proceeds from this financing, combined with the existing cash on our balance sheet, has resulted in a very strong cash position.

Consistent with our past practices, we intend to remain disciplined around the use of that cash and deploy it opportunistically for repurchases during times of increased volatility and targeted bolt-on M&A.

Additionally, our Board of Directors approved a 53% increase in our quarterly dividend on July 31.

We're also increasing our dividend payout ratio target to a range of 40% to 50% of adjusted EPS from the previous range of 30% to 40%.

This reflects the strength of our franchise and our confidence in our continued strong financial performance.

Slide 18 highlights our strong track record of returning capital.

Year-to-date, we've deployed $223 million to repurchase a total of 1.5 million shares of our stock.

With the exception of the change to our dividend policy, our approach to capital allocation remains the same, with no changes to our leverage target or our approach to repurchases.

Lastly, as you see on Slide 19, we have one update to our guidance.

We expect interest expense of $133 million as a result of the May financing.

Otherwise, our guidance and long-term targets remain the same.

Also, I'd like to point out that while our adjusted EBITDA expense guidance range is consistent with our previous guidance, we currently expect to be at the higher end of our guidance range.

In summary, we had a very strong first half of the year as the team continues to execute extremely well against our strategy.

The investments in high ROI projects have been a major tailwind for us as our franchise continues to strengthen.

Our growth opportunities continue to expand, and we are focused on continuing to deliver strong top line growth.

We very much look forward to keeping you updated on our progress.

With that, we will open the line to take your questions.

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from the line of Alex Kramm with UBS.

Would love for you guys to comment a little bit about the -- I don't know if it's the topic du jour, but the announcement from Fidelity yesterday to basically move to a 0-management fee product.

Now I know it was an index mutual fund, I don't think you have a lot of exposure in that area anyways.

But just curious what you think that signals, if it's a change from the trajectory that we've been on when it comes to fee erosion in general?

And I guess, maybe just related to that, I think you made a comment around you always negotiate and have discussions with your customers.

Just wanted to press if there's anything new in that or why you made that comment, Kathleen, I think it was you.

So any bigger picture comments would be helpful here as well.

No, thanks for that question, Alex.

The -- there's no -- relatively no new information coming out of the announcement of Fidelity.

Basically, it is part of a trajectory in this industry, like any other industry, that when you have attractive returns in certain parts of the world, capital flows to that, participants flows to that and it puts pressure, obviously, on pricing.

So we expect that to continue for sure.

We also expect that to be a long-term trend with certain step functions along the way, but it's a long-term trend.

And, therefore, we are focused with ourselves, with also our partners in either mutual fund managers or index fund managers or ETF managers, to optimize our opportunity in the context of those trends and those competitive dynamics.

And what that is, is focused on what we call run rate growth or revenue growth, and optimizing the tradeoff between volume and pricing of -- and positioning, obviously, of our offerings and in their case, their offerings to -- their investment offerings to the client base.

So that's what we have been doing for a very long time.

If you want to think about it, that's what we did back in 2012 in the context of large client leaving us at the time.

And we ended up with a recovery and a great result after that.

So that's that.

Now with respect to the dialogue we have with all of our clients, including our largest clients, is, obviously, we constantly have debate and discussions as to what is the right positioning strategy.

They tell us what they view their right position and strategy for their investment products, and how we fit into that as the supplier of the indices into those products, what is the appropriate distribution to what type of client, what clients are more price-sensitive, what clients are less, what clients are focused more on liquidity of products versus long and hold.

And, therefore, how do we optimize the volume price tradeoff in order to come out with a large amount of market share and a large amount of revenues.

So that's -- there's no difference what we've been doing in the past.

My sense, Alex, is that those conversations will clearly continue at a fast pace and will intensify as the industry tries to find an equilibrium in all of this and tries to pick the winners and the losers, that equilibrium.

And of course, we want to be a large player among the winners.

Excellent.

And then just shifting gears for a second then, I was very pleasantly surprised about the sales performance or net sales performance this quarter.

Maybe if you can just flesh this out a little bit more.

I think you've made comments or prepared us in the past that the second half of the year should be really where sales accelerate, given kind of like the changes you made to the compensation structure.

So was there any pull forward, anything you would point out that maybe the second half may be on a different trajectory now?

Or why was the second quarter just such a surprising standout, I guess?

Look, I think this second quarter, similarly to the fourth quarter 2017, are just early indications of the capital allocation we're making in terms -- let me back up, the strategic focus that we're trying to put in the highest, more strategic growth areas of our company as opposed to the ones that are not.

And the ones that are not, we either divest them completely or we harvest them.

So that's the strategic focus.

The second part is the capital allocation we provide.

We're putting a lot more capital on those strategic areas that are giving us high ROI opportunities and medium or lower capitals to the ones that don't but continue to be strategic.

And obviously, in terms of profitability and especially funding of this investment initiatives, we are obsessively focused on continuously creating efficiencies in the companies -- in the company in order to free up money for profitability and free up money for investment.

So that's no different.

So what you see in the growth rate, for example, Alex, is that, clearly, we're very focused on factors, factor investing, and within the whole compendium from factor analytics to factor indices and the like.

We're very focused on the ESG ecosystem.

From ESG research and coverage of securities to ESG ratings to ESG indices and all of that, and that is obviously, another growth drivers of this.

Within Analytics, when go to Page 14 of the slides, we wanted to give you this slide so you can see that the area that we care the most about, which is multi-asset class analytics and equity analytics, are the areas that are growing the most, 10% in the last period here on multi-asset class and fixed income, and 7% on equity analytics.

What the drag is, is this other area, which has this slide, $54 million of run rate.

And by the way, this $54 million, does include the $17 million run rate of InvestorForce that would obviously be out of that once we close that transaction.

That is a little bit of a drag and, therefore, we're either divested or improving or harvesting parts of that.

So what you see here is in the growth of the revenue is, obviously, the investment that we're making, but also a little bit of a change of mix, which is indices is growing faster, ESG is growing faster, Factor Analytics are growing faster, and we're either divesting or depriving capital from those areas that are lower-growth areas and, therefore, we will anticipate to see a continuation of this but in a gradual process, with some lumpiness quarter-by-quarter because of the Analytics segment.

And our next question comes from the line of Manav Patnaik with Barclays.

My first question was, I was hoping, Kathleen, you talked about your confidence in your recession playbook, and I was hoping you could just expand a little bit in terms of what some of the steps would be that you would take.

Even now, it sounds like you're accelerating your index subscription growth even though the backdrop is tough for the active managers.

So I was hoping for a few examples, anecdotes, of what's in that playbook, basically.

Sure.

So first, I would say, when you think about our cost structure, it's important to kind of understand that we're largely a people business, right?

So we're comprised of people.

And so one of the things that we're constantly looking at, and we very much have a mindset of continuous improvement, we're constantly looking at are we doing everything as efficiently as possible.

And so we're always looking for opportunities to drive efficiencies and leveraging technology to drive efficiency.

So that is something that we're continuing to use as a lever for improvement.

In terms of should we go into a downturn environment, we look at our cost structure and say, okay, well, what are the components of our costs that are variable, and those are the types of things that we would lever up or down.

For example, there are portions of compensation cost, obviously, that our variable cost.

And so those would be the levers that we would go to.

And we would look at things that -- first, we would look at things that would not impact our ability to invest and continue to drive top line growth.

So when we prepare that downturn playbook, it's very much prioritized in terms of kind of what are the Tier 1 things that don't impact our ability to grow, and then we would have lower on that list other items.

Got it.

And then just maybe just to round out the capital allocation comments you made.

I mean, you -- I guess you guys just sold InvestorForce.

Is there an ongoing portfolio review of the company?

Did that just come up?

Just some color on if there's anything in the back there.

Yes.

So portfolio review is always an ongoing process.

I mean, we're doing that all of the time to make sure that we've got the right assets with the right growth profile in our firm in the portfolio.

So we've looked at the areas that have been lower or negative growth and said those are -- we're going to address that, as Henry said, either by divestiture or by improving that growth rate, enhancing the product and improving that growth rate.

So we've done, as you've noted, the 2 small divestitures here in terms of FEA and the pending InvestorForce divestiture.

We're going to continue to look at the portfolio, but as of -- there's nothing substantial right now.

Our next question is from the line of Toni Kaplan with Morgan Stanley.

Henry, you mentioned at the beginning of the call a number of new executive appointments, and there were quite a few there.

So I was wondering if you've had any, I guess, higher than unusual turnover.

Or is it more related to expansion or a change of strategy?

And could this result in a change in culture?

And I'm not trying to imply that this would necessarily be negative, but just wanted to hear your thoughts on that.

Yes.

So we've always been, Toni, a company that does both.

We promote from within and bring talent laterally at all levels of the company.

We try not to be either/or because there's always a great opportunity to bring new fresh, new blood -- new fresher blood into the company and, obviously, reward the talent of the people that are in the company.

So there's no change in that here.

Secondly, all these hires are part of the investment plan that we have in key strategic areas.

We've mentioned C-level selling with our clients and solution selling.

So Russell Read will play a large role in there.

We talked about the technological transformation of the company.

We have a saying inside MSCI that we need to become a Silicon Valley high-tech company.

Whether we're there or we have a long way to go, I don't know, but we for sure will do that very hard and Jigar comes to help us achieve that.

We talked about the -- clearly, Asia is a big region that we want to focus on.

We've had a vacancy there for about 1.5 years.

And the head of that region, Laurent, has been managing it day-to-day from London.

So that's a backfill there.

Another example is, obviously, you heard us talk about the opportunity, the large opportunity we have in building Index Futures and options linked to MSCI Indices, we're helping exchanges do that around the world.

So we beefed up that area with George Harrington coming too, so we can put a lot more emphasis and grow that category, and so on and so forth.

So I don't think this is a change of policy at all.

I don't think this is an outside investment.

It's all embedded in the sort of run rate of EBITDA and EBITDA expenses and all of that, and it's no change of policy and it's no change in the culture because we always done it this way.

Okay, great.

And then while the retention is still exceptionally strong for each of the segments, the Index retention rate was down about 110 bps year-over-year and Analytics, down by about 180.

Is there any onetime items in either of those segments?

Just to help understand why the rates did drop even though they're still in the 90s.

Toni, no, there's no particular onetime items there.

Look, the retention rates, they kind of move up and down a little bit within a particular range.

But 95.9 for Index and 92 for Analytics is very much within the kind of normal range of what we would expect.

And our next question is from Chris Shutler with William Blair.

I don't know if you already covered this or not, but I was hoping to get a little more color on the sales activity in Index and Analytics and whether there are lumpy items in the quarter and just how we should look at the sales on a go-forward basis.

Look, I think the biggest thing here is we've been very consistent in our objective to show steady improvement in Analytics growth.

And it's precisely the point that I was trying to make on Slide 5 about the ecosystem, that as our capabilities improve and as our clients see us execute effectively, it becomes something of a virtuous circle.

So I think that we've been consistent in that story about Analytics.

I think there's nothing extraordinary in the Index numbers per se.

So I -- look, we said this before and it will continue to be the case, that we cannot manage every -- particularly certain large sales may come a little just after the quarter end or just before.

But my headline here is I wouldn't read too much into it.

I think it's a consistent performance, I don't think it's an unusual performance.

And we wouldn't view this as being an outlier in any way and it's part of a steady trend.

Yes.

So particularly in Analytics, where sometimes you can have larger deals that can kind of skew a quarter, in this instance, that's not the case.

It was really -- the strong sales are really comprised of many kind of normal-sized deals, I'd call it.

Okay.

And then on the Index, were there -- I guess it sounds like there weren't extraordinary size deals or...

No.

No.

A little confused there.

No, no, not at all.

Just I would call it was a normal -- normally successful quarter.

Nothing unusual, no particularly outlier deals or anything that's worthy of comment.

Yes.

I mean, it was pretty much broad, strong performance across the board within, if you look at Index subscription, whether you look at it by content area, if you will, Factors and ESG, driving strong performance, clients -- each of the client segments doing really well and each of the regions showing strong performance as well.

Okay.

And then, Henry, with the -- on the whole Fidelity thing, and I think JP Morgan, a couple of months ago, just do you think that we're going to see more and more of the index funds and ETFs using ETF providers as calculation agents, at least in the retail space?

And can you give us, I know it's probably tough to answer, but at least a sense of magnitude of how the fees might differ if you're a calculation agent versus providing the index itself?

So I think, Chris, there's no question that this category will continue to grow, and that is the focus that we have at MSCI, how do we capture the significant amount of this growth in all these ETFs and index funds and passive categories with our indices, how do we position them and all of that.

And as part of that, we use tools to such as pricing in order to capture volume and market share.

We believe that in a growth trajectory of any product or any industry, the name of the game is to capture a lot of market share, because when it becomes fixed, it's a lot harder to do that, and then it's just a price game, right?

So we do that.

Now our indices are, obviously, invested by us and calculated by us.

Other entities provide calculation services to clients that are sort of white labeling or vanilla calculation services.

We tend not to do that.

We only do that when either us or the client makes the content, so to speak, the index strategy together with the client, and then we serve as calculation of that using our universal securities, our infrastructure and the like.

So we're doing this with a few of the ETF managers that have been launching products recently and we get paid basis points on the basis of that.

But we believe that we're adding value in terms of the creation of the content not just being a calculator that can be easily be replaced by somebody else in the future.

Our next question is from Joseph Foresi with Cantor Fitzgerald.

You have an uptick in -- and I know you talked about this a little bit earlier, but you had an uptick in the subscription portion of the growth rate.

I wonder if you could provide a little more color on how you think about that, both short term and long term and how sustainable that is.

So what we -- there are 2 things that are -- there are 3 things.

One is we clearly are trying really hard to consistently grow our subscription run rate in the low, low teens, right, in the 10% to 11%, 10% to 12% kind of area.

Given the recent past, say, the last 5, 7 years, it has not been growing in that area.

It grew -- the subscription run rate grew in the kind of 10% area in the 5 years leading up into 2017, 4 or 5 years leading up to that, and then we're now trying to migrate from to like 11%, 12% type of area, but we don't know, obviously, how successful we can be.

We're doing that by kind of 3 areas, right?

The easies area is divest in the things that have low growth or negative growth in one, and that's the categories in Analytics that we were talking about before.

The second area is be an innovation machine so that you're adding content to that subscription that is growing at a much faster pace, that's ESG and Factors, would be in that category.

And then thirdly, then making sure that the big shift, which is the big shift of indices and the subscription who are multi-asset class risk and fixed income, for example, are not being dilutive to growth but are actually being accretive to growth.

So those are the 3 categories.

So you will hopefully see a continuation of this.

If we continue to be effective at innovating and creating new content and, therefore, it may start small but over time becomes bigger and are higher growth rates, such as the Factor space and the ESG space, continuing to make constant improvements in growing the bigger run rates and then harvesting or getting rid of the things that are dilutive to that.

Joe, just to point you to the data, you probably know that it's there.

But in the appendix, you can see total company and by segment subscription run rate growth over the last 5 years.

So you can see all of that information there.

And you can see from that, that our obsession and focus on driving that improved run rate growth is yielding itself in the numbers and the performance and we're continuing to focus on that.

Got it.

And just as a follow-up.

I know you talked a little bit about pricing also in the opening remarks.

How do you see pricing trending?

And is that a tool for you to take market share or penetrate new markets?

And how do you see the balance there with the margin profile?

So remember, pricing, we are a multiproduct company.

We're not a multi-business company, we're a multiproduct, 1 business company.

So therefore, pricing varies by product line.

We do price increases in our Index subscription, we do price increases in a lot of our Analytics.

We're beginning to do price increase in our Real Estate product lines and the like.

So we clearly have been doing price increases on our, particularly, ESG and Factor indices for what we call institutional passive type of products.

The category that pricing is either static or declining is the ETF category, sort of as an example, right.

So we continue to see that happening as scale builds up and efficiency builds up in the industry, and as people are trying to capture the market share in the industry.

And we are a provider of the index into those managers and, therefore, we want to align our strategy in terms of content, in terms of pricing and in terms of volume, our market share, to the strategy of those ETF managers.

So that will definitely continue.

What we want to focus on is the growth of the run rate, which is made up of volume or market share and pricing.

In the past, there's been a normal amount of focus on only the pricing part, not the volume part, but the pricing is a tool that is being used to drive volume and market share in order to create higher revenue.

And that -- we'll continue to see that in the industry and we'll continue to do that ourselves.

Our next question is from Hamzah Mazari with Macquarie.

I was hoping you could sort of make any comments on self-indexing.

I know you've spoken to your customer base.

Any updated views on that, or what you're hearing that may be different and sort of your viewpoint there?

Yes, so we believe that, that will continue in the marketplace.

And let me tell you why.

Look, in the distant past, indices were used only as references to build portfolios.

It was more of a guide to build a portfolio.

What is happening now is that indices, the building of indices and the creation of indices, they are becoming the portfolio itself.

The index is the underlying basis of the portfolio itself.

So therefore, it will be -- it's ingenious to think that the entire investment industry is just going to rely on third-party indices to beat the underlying basis for their actual portfolios.

And, therefore, you will see clients create portfolios all the time, all the time, right.

That's what their job is creating portfolios.

Some of those portfolios will be created by client and be -- have a reference against an index.

Some of those portfolios will be created by clients with an underlying third-party index like ours.

And some of those portfolios, well, the clients will say, look, I created a portfolio, I want to turn it into a formulaic approach to the portfolio and, therefore, I'll call it self-indexing.

So I don't see why that will not continue or even accelerate because it's part of the portfolio creation, portfolio management process in the world.

So I see that happening, and that doesn't mean that it's a threat to us.

If anything, we will help clients create self-indexes in order to -- because that's the job.

We help clients achieve their goals.

So part of their goals may be creating self-indexes and in those self-indices, for example, we may be the underlying securities because we have that.

We may be the underlying calculation of it, and so on and so forth.

So we see that evolving in the industry.

Great.

And just a follow-up.

You had mentioned Factor and ESG indices are, I think, 23% market share, which is pretty large.

Maybe if you could frame for us how that compares to your overall market share and how you think about that market share and run rate going forward, on the Factor and ESG.

And then just curious how that compares to how you judge your overall market share.

We will get back to you on the exact numbers to make sure that we have the same information.

We don't want to take a lot of time on the call, but we'll get back to you, and if anybody has that question, we can do that as well.

What we can tell you is that we are the largest provider of factor indices in the world and we're the largest provider of ESG indices in the world probably by a wide margin, by a relatively wide margin.

So we are the leader in this space, in number of indices, in number of ETFs underlying these indices, past the other institutional passive funds underlying these indices and all of that, and we intend to remain doing that.

And, therefore, we have a meaningful amount of market share here that we want to continue and increase, and we'll give you the exact dollar amounts and dollar -- in terms of market shares and exact amounts of assets benchmarked to this passive or active and all of that.

Our next question is Patrick O'Shaughnessy with Raymond James.

A question on your ESG business.

How much of your growth there would you say is from market share gains?

And how much is really just kind of going after a whitespace opportunity?

Whitespace opportunity, there's no such thing as displacing anybody in this space at this point.

All right.

Great.

And then for my follow-up, as we look at your asset-based revenues, can you maybe give a little more color?

I know you spoke about it briefly earlier, but a little bit more color on the really impressive growth you've seen in your non-ETF revenues.

On the passive side, so that -- the ABF, the asset-based fee category is made up of 3 components, right.

The largest component is obviously ETF fees.

The second largest is the other forms of passive fees that are non-ETF, that could be institutional passive as we call it or -- and the like.

And the third category is the futures and options on our indices, which is, obviously, growing pretty large.

So on your question which is the second category, the reason it's growing a lot is for 2 reasons.

One is that, obviously, the category of institutional passive is growing, just like the same way you see ETFs, which are basically, mostly passive growing, the over-the-counter, so to speak, as opposed to the exchange-traded category is also growing, either institutional passive or mutual fund passive.

And that has obviously provided that growth.

The second growth is on the pricing.

The part of the category that is market cap indices has had relatively low pricing for a long time, particularly the institutional part of that, but the ESG and Factor part of that, we're pricing at a much higher level, sometimes multiples of the level that we're pricing the market cap part of that category, and that is creating significant benefit.

So specifically, when a pension fund decides to invest passively but not in ETF, and passively on a ESG mandate or a Factor mandate or better yet, a combination of Factors and ESG, the index fee associated with that, either passively managed or actively managed, in this case, obviously, we talk about passively managed, is higher than the market cap, the traditional market cap category.

Our next question is from Henry Chien with BMO.

Just had a question on some of the changes or the additions to your management team.

And I was just curious on the sales side.

It seems like you are targeting a number of new areas in the industry, whether it's wealth management and broker dealers.

And just curious how you're thinking about the sales strategy there.

And are you sort of accelerating your sales push to sort of take advantage of that demand for these new products?

Yes, for sure.

Absolutely.

So I think those are both categories where we have clearly seen attractive growth over the last number of years.

And we felt that the business was both at an inflection point in terms of its scale and its growth potential that additional senior leadership could really make the most of that.

So I think it's really a sign, if you like, from a -- not from a product point of view but from a client point of view of the -- well, partly products in the futures and options areas and partly client type of the continued diversification of our portfolio.

And the point that I was making on Slide 5 of the -- how our ecosystem becomes a virtuous circle.

So we're very pleased that we feel we can make these sort of investments because that's what they are, they're investments in our colleagues, in humans.

And we really feel confident that they will pay off in the next year and the years ahead.

Great.

And just then my follow-up.

In terms of the investment cycle, is the priority still ESG and Factors?

Or any updated thoughts on how you're thinking about product investment?

I'm sorry, repeat that question again, we...

Yes, so I'm just curious on your, I guess, investment plans for products.

Is it still kind of staying the course and continuing to invest in ESG and Factors?

And -- or it's just any updated thoughts on whether you're kind of exploring new areas as well?

We clearly have a full hand here with the current content and also the technology to enable that content, both to produce that content but also to distribute that content to our clients.

So that's already a fairly full deck of things.

But we are gradually investing in other areas.

Private asset classes is one example there.

Clearly, we have been investing in the real estate, in the private real estate area that we don't talk about much on these calls.

We should in the future.

We are putting several seed investments in infrastructure.

For example, obviously, we have made investments in -- that's on the performance side.

On the risk side, we've made investment on the private equity risk models and the private real estate risk models and the like.

So that's one area that we are focused on, on the product side.

And as you mentioned, on the client side, we have big opportunities on wealth, on exchanges, be it with futures and options.

At some point, we will want to expand our coverage of life insurance companies, for example, and the like.

So we're only scratching the surface in many of these new -- the newer client segments.

And our next question is from Vincent Hung with Autonomous.

Just one from me.

I just wanted to dig a bit further into the dialogue you're having with ETF issuers.

So are clients negotiating price reductions around all of the MSCI-linked ETFs they have or around specific ETFs?

So whether it's like the old suite versus the new, as I guess you have -- you probably have more pricing power on the larger, more liquid established products.

And just to tack on to that, are they using the threat of self-indexing as a potential bargaining chip?

No, no.

Most, if not all, of our clients are not -- they want to do business with us and we have great relationships with them.

So it's not a question of threats or else I'll go anywhere.

I mean, we believe we add enormous amount of value to our clients, particularly our ETF manager clients, especially by the large following exemplified in the $14 trillion of assets that are following MSCI indices.

So to some extent, when a client launches a new ETF, it's a little bit of a call option in converting a bit of that amount of money into their products or attracting it into their products.

So now, we don't comment on specific negotiations at all, whatsoever.

But for sure, we always talk about everything.

We talk about the new product lines, we talk about existing product lines, we talk about new geographies.

Because we look at the ETF market as if it were 1 giant market, all homogeneous.

It's very, very different.

You have segments or you have geographies.

The competitive dynamics in Europe are very different than the competitive dynamics in the U.S. and completely different than the competitive dynamics in Asia.

Within those markets, the competitive dynamics on low-cost retail products is very different than the competitive dynamics on institutional ETFs, or ETFs that are highly used by institutions.

The value proposition is very different.

Institutions are looking to move large amounts of money, with high liquidity and very tight bid-ask spreads.

A lot of the retail marketplace is a buy-and-hold kind of investors, and so on and so forth.

So we're looking to segment all of that market and have ongoing conversations with our clients about all of the components of that to maximize the fabric of or the tapestry of revenue in the context of volume and price and differentiation and value-added in each one of the categories, whether it's a market category or a segment or a geography or a product segment.

And I'm not showing any further questions.

I'll now turn the call back over to Andrew Wiechmann for closing remarks.

Thank you so much, and thank you to everyone for joining us today.

We really appreciate the continued interest in the MSCI story.

We look forward to keeping you guys posted on our progress.

And as always, please feel free to reach out to me with any additional questions.

Hope you all have a great day.

Thanks.

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude the program.

You may now disconnect.