Markel Group Inc (MKL) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Markel Group third quarter 2025 conference call. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎參加 Markel Group 2025 年第三季電話會議。（操作說明）

During the call today, we may make forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. They are based on current assumptions and opinions concerning a variety of known and unknown risks. Actual results may differ materially from those contained in or suggested by such forward-looking statements.

在今天的電話會議中，我們可能會做出符合 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》規定的前瞻性陳述。它們是基於目前對各種已知和未知風險的假設和觀點。實際結果可能與此類前瞻性聲明中包含或暗示的結果有重大差異。

Additional information about factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected in the forward-looking statements is included in our press release for our third quarter 2025 results as well as our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly report on Form 10-Q, including under the caption Safe Harbor and Cautionary Statements and Risk Factors.

有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性聲明中預測的結果存在重大差異的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們 2025 年第三季度業績新聞稿以及我們最新的 10-K 表格年度報告和 10-Q 表格季度報告，包括“安全港”和“警示性聲明及風險因素”標題下的內容。

We may also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures during the call today. You may find the most directly comparable GAAP measures and reconciliation to GAAP for these measures in the press release for our third quarter 2025 results or in our most recent Form 10-Q. The press release for our third quarter 2025 results as well as our Form 10-K and Form 10-Q can be found on our website at www.mklgroup.com in the Investor Relations section.

我們今天在電話會議中也可能會討論一些非GAAP財務指標。您可以在我們的 2025 年第三季業績新聞稿或我們最新的 10-Q 表格中找到最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標以及這些指標與 GAAP 的調整表。有關我們 2025 年第三季業績的新聞稿以及我們的 10-K 表格和 10-Q 表格，可以在我們網站 www.mklgroup.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Tom Gayner, Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.

請注意，本次活動正在錄影。現在我將把會議交給執行長湯姆·蓋納。請繼續。

Good morning, Kelvin, and thank you very much. Welcome, and thank you for joining us for today's call. I'm delighted to be joined by my colleagues, Brian Costanzo, our CFO; and Simon Wilson, our CEO of Markel Insurance. We're also joined by Mike Heaton, our COO, for the question-and-answer portion of the call.

早安，凱爾文，非常感謝。歡迎各位參加今天的電話會議，感謝你們的參與。我很高興我的同事們，財務長布萊恩·科斯坦佐和馬克爾保險公司執行長西蒙·威爾遜，能夠與我一起出席。我們的營運長麥克·希頓也加入了電話會議的問答環節。

At Markel Group, we're committed to relentlessly compounding your capital and building shareholder value. I'm happy to report that so far in 2025, we continue to do exactly that. I'm particularly pleased that throughout the first nine months of 2025, every reportable segment made positive contributions to the value of the Markel Group. They also did so in a capital-efficient way, generating significant cash flows that helped fund our ongoing share repurchases and buildup of liquidity.

在 Markel Group，我們致力於不斷提升您的資本價值，並為股東創造價值。我很高興地報告，截至 2025 年，我們一直在這樣做。我特別感到高興的是，在 2025 年的前九個月裡，每個可報告的部門都為 Markel 集團的價值做出了積極貢獻。他們也以資本高效的方式實現了這一點，產生了可觀的現金流，幫助我們持續進行股票回購並累積流動性。

The first nine months of 2025 stand as compelling evidence of how our differentiated model works. Brian will provide more on our detailed financial performance in a minute, and Simon will speak about our ongoing improvements in our insurance business. But before I turn the call over to them, I would like to say a bit more about our progress this year.

2025 年前九個月充分證明了我們差異化模式的有效性。Brian 稍後將詳細介紹我們的財務業績，Simon 將談談我們在保險業務方面持續改進的情況。但在我把電話交給他們之前，我想再多談談我們今年的進展。

First, as you know, our Board and management have been intensely focused on improving our core insurance business. We've taken many decisive actions over the last few years, including: one, exiting underperforming businesses, most notably reinsurance; two, making key leadership changes, including appointing a new insurance company CEO with a proven track record of success; and three, implementing key organizational and structural changes to improve accountability, including shifting most of our overhead directly into the businesses.

首先，如您所知，我們的董事會和管理層一直致力於改善我們的核心保險業務。過去幾年，我們採取了許多果斷行動，包括：一、退出業績不佳的業務，尤其是再保險業務；二、進行關鍵的領導層變動，包括任命一位擁有成功業績的新保險公司首席執行官；三、實施關鍵的組織和結構變革以提高問責制，包括將我們的大部分管理費用直接轉移到業務部門。

I'm pleased to report that these actions are beginning to translate into results as we achieved a combined ratio of 93% within Markel Insurance in the third quarter compared to 97% in the comparable period. While this was aided by light cat activity this year, looking underneath some of the lines we exited, the improvement in our core insurance business is becoming clearer. We believe this is just the beginning. The improvements in insurance profitability so far provide evidence that our actions are starting to drive better results.

我很高興地報告，這些措施開始轉化為成果，Markel Insurance 第三季的綜合比率為 93%，而去年同期為 97%。雖然今年貓科動物活動較少對此有所幫助，但仔細分析我們退出的一些業務線，我們核心保險業務的改善變得越來越明顯。我們相信這只是個開始。保險業盈利能力的提升表明，我們的行動已開始取得更好的結果。

I think it's also worthwhile to point out that we have reported favorable reserve development on an annual basis each year for more than two decades now. This reflects our inherent conservatism and commitment to financial integrity. Simon will provide more comments on our insurance business, but the headlines are that we're doing more of what works and less of what does not. We are simplifying the business, increasing accountability to front lines and setting the stage for renewed growth and improved profitability.

我認為值得指出的是，在過去的二十多年裡，我們每年都報告了有利的儲​​量開發。這體現了我們固有的保守主義和對財務誠信的承諾。Simon 將對我們的保險業務發表更多評論，但主要內容是，我們正在更多地做有效的事情，減少無效的事情。我們正在簡化業務流程，提高第一線員工的責任感，為新的成長和更高的獲利能力奠定基礎。

In all of the businesses we own and oversee, our CEOs have continued to run their businesses with professionalism, long-term focus and extreme skill, navigating through volatile and uncertain economic conditions to deliver strong returns on capital and profitability.

在我們擁有和管理的每家企業中，我們的執行長們都以專業精神、長遠眼光和高超的技能繼續經營著他們的企業，在動盪和不確定的經濟環境下，實現了強勁的資本回報和盈利能力。

The Markel Group system also continues to generate significant cash flow, offering further evidence of the strength of our model. Over the trailing five years ending September 30, 2025, our cumulative operating income was nearly $13 billion. This incoming cash gives us financial strength and offers us flexibility to pursue opportunities we understand with partners we trust while returning capital to our shareholders at the same time.

Markel集團系統也持續產生可觀的現金流，進一步證明了我們模式的優勢。截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日的過去五年，我們的累計營業收入接近 130 億美元。這筆流入的資金增強了我們的財務實力，使我們能夠靈活地與我們信任的合作夥伴一起追求我們理解的機會，同時也能為股東帶來回報。

Our opportunity set is significant. We can reinvest in our existing businesses or expand into new public and private businesses. Much of our growth capital has been deployed in the industrial, consumer and other and financial sectors, where over decades, we have developed a core set of competencies around culture, capital and leaders, each of which adds to our ability to relentlessly compound your capital.

我們擁有許多重要的機會。我們可以對現有業務進行再投資，也可以拓展到新的公營和私營業務領域。我們的大部分成長資本都投入了工業、消費品和其他金融領域，幾十年來，我們在文化、資本和領導者方面發展出了一套核心能力，這些能力都增強了我們不斷為您的資本增值的能力。

I'll also note that we've earned strong returns on those investments. In the five-year period of 2020 to 2024, the insurance, industrial, financial and consumer and other segments of Markel Group paid dividends up to the holding company of approximately $2.2 billion. We invested $1.7 billion in acquisitions and additional interest in our existing businesses, primarily in the industrial and consumer sectors, all while supporting substantial growth in insurance.

我還要指出，我們從這些投資中獲得了豐厚的回報。在 2020 年至 2024 年的五年期間，Markel 集團的保險、工業、金融、消費品和其他部門向控股公司支付了高達約 22 億美元的股息。我們投資了 17 億美元用於收購和增持現有業務，主要集中在工業和消費領域，同時支持保險業的大幅成長。

Regarding share repurchases, from the end of 2020 through the end of Q3 2025, we've returned approximately $1.9 billion of capital to shareholders via repurchases, again, while strengthening the balance sheet. Share count was reduced from 13.8 million to 12.6 million. In our investment operations, we continue to remain focused on preserving and protecting your capital.

關於股票回購，從 2020 年底到 2025 年第三季末，我們透過股票回購向股東返還了約 19 億美元的資本，同時加強了資產負債表。股份數量從 1,380 萬股減少到 1,260 萬股。在我們的投資營運中，我們始終專注於保全和保護您的資本。

We earned 8.4% on our equity investments so far in 2025. The book yield on our fixed income is 3.5%, and our reinvestment yield was 4.2%. We aim to be thoughtful stewards of capital and seek to match our liabilities by investing in only the highest rated fixed income securities. This safety-first approach has served us well. We are then able to utilize the strength of our balance sheet to invest in the areas where we see the best opportunities to deploy capital.

截至目前，我們在2025年的股權投資中獲得了8.4%的收益。我們固定收益產品的帳面收益率為 3.5%，再投資收益率為 4.2%。我們的目標是成為謹慎的資本管理者，並透過只投資於最高評級的固定收益證券來平衡我們的負債。這種安全第一的做法對我們很有效。然後，我們就可以利用我們雄厚的資產負債表實力，投資於我們認為最有資本部署機會的領域。

As part of our Board-led review, we also committed to improving our financial disclosures to ensure that you can better see where our earnings come from, how we allocate capital to its highest and best use and how capital has performed overall and in all parts of the Markel Group system.

作為董事會主導的審查的一部分，我們也致力於改進財務揭露，以確保您能更好地了解我們的收益來源、我們如何將資本分配到最高和最佳用途，以及資本在 Markel 集團系統整體和各個部分的表現。

Last quarter, we enhanced our disclosures for the insurance operations to better align it with the business' strategy and provide more detail for investors. This quarter, as you can see from our 10-Q and the supplemental materials we provided yesterday evening, we have provided additional new disclosures, including now reporting our business results into four segments: insurance, industrial, financial and consumer and other.

上個季度，我們加強了保險業務的資訊揭露，使其與公司策略更加一致，並為投資者提供更多細節。正如您從我們的 10-Q 表格和昨晚提供的補充材料中看到的那樣，本季度我們提供了更多新的披露信息，包括現在將我們的業務業績分為四個部分進行報告：保險、工業、金融和消費品以及其他。

I'm sure it will take a little time for everyone to process and digest our new disclosure format, but I hope you will find it helpful in how it describes the ways our diversified set of businesses reinforce our overall financial strength and stability and how our significant reinvestment options and highly efficient and low-cost capital allocation all work together to generate steady and diverse cash flows and relentless compounding of your capital over time. We believe that a key part of our success has always been how our Board and leadership team maintain strong oversight over the company's operational, financial and value performance, always evaluating ways to improve.

我相信大家需要一些時間來理解和消化我們新的披露格式，但我希望您能從中了解到，我們多元化的業務組合如何增強了我們的整體財務實力和穩定性，以及我們重要的再投資選擇和高效低成本的資本配置如何共同作用，產生穩定和多元化的現金流，並隨著時間的推移不斷實現您的資本複利增長。我們認為，我們成功的關鍵在於董事會和領導團隊對公司的營運、財務和價值表現保持強有力的監督，並不斷評估改進的方法。

With that, I'd like to turn things over to Brian. I look forward to answering your questions after he and Simon provide you with an update. Brian?

接下來，我想把發言權交給布萊恩。在他和西蒙向您提供最新情況後，我期待回答您的問題。布萊恩？

Thank you, Tom. Good morning, everyone. As Tom mentioned, after a listening tour with our investors earlier this year, we decided to undertake the effort partnering with our Board and third-party advisers to further enhance our financial disclosures.

謝謝你，湯姆。各位早安。正如湯姆所提到的，在今年稍早與投資者進行了一次聽取意見的巡迴活動後，我們決定與董事會和第三方顧問合作，進一步加強我們的財務揭露。

Markel Group's evolution created the opportunity to take a fresh look at how we report our financial results to shareholders. We released the first part of these changes in the second quarter to align with our reorganized Markel Insurance segment. Last night, we released the remainder of our changes across Markel Group.

Markel集團的發展歷程為我們提供了一個機會，讓我們重新檢視如何向股東報告財務表現。為了配合我們重組後的 Markel 保險業務部門，我們在第二季推出了這些變革的第一部分。昨晚，我們發布了 Markel 集團剩餘的各項變更。

We are excited to hear your feedback. We believe that these changes will help investors both better understand your company and provide improved insights into how both Markel Group as a whole and its family of businesses are performing. While I will reference several of these changes as I walk through our quarterly results, the primary changes to our financial disclosures include changing how we present investment gains and losses to provide investors with a better sense of reoccurring operating results from our businesses through.

我們非常期待您的回饋。我們相信，這些變化將有助於投資人更了解貴公司，並更深入了解 Markel 集團及其旗下各業務部門的業績表現。雖然我在介紹季度業績時會提及其中的一些變化，但我們財務揭露的主要變化包括改變我們列示投資收益和損失的方式，以便讓投資者更好地了解我們業務的持續經營業績。

First, moving the presentation of investment gains and losses to outside of revenues; and second, introducing a new metric for adjusted operating income, which excludes investment gains and amortization expense from our operating results.

首先，將投資收益和損失的列示移至收入之外；其次，引入新的調整後營業收入指標，該指標從我們的經營業績中剔除了投資收益和攤銷費用。

We also reorganized our business results into four reportable segments: Markel Insurance, Industrial, Financial and Consumer and Other, and shifted to adjusted operating income as our segment performance metric for each of our reportable segments, collapsed our investments segment into the new reportable segments, introduced new consolidated and segment-level KPIs such as organic revenue growth and return on equity for Markel Insurance; and finally, updated business descriptions to help investors more fulsomely understand our family of businesses across the variety of industries in which we operate.

我們也將業務成果重組為四個可報告分部：Markel 保險、工業、金融和消費及其他，並將調整後的營業收入作為每個可報告分部的業績指標，將投資分部併入新的可報告分部，引入了新的合併和分部層面的關鍵績效指標，例如 Markel 保險的有機收入增長和股本回報率；最後，更新了業務描述，我們在業務更全面地了解我們的業務。

We also created a Reporting Changes Guide for shareholders, along with supplemental recast financial information that aligns with our new segment structure for the trailing seven quarters. We filed both by an 8-K last night, and they are available to you now on the SEC's website and our Markel Group website. We hope these tools are helpful in navigating through the changes in our financial disclosures.

我們也為股東編制了《報告變更指南》，以及與我們新的分部結構一致的過去七個季度的補充重述財務資訊。我們昨晚透過 8-K 表格提交了這兩份文件，您現在可以在美國證券交易委員會網站和我們的 Markel Group 網站上查閱。我們希望這些工具能幫助您應對財務揭露方面的變化。

With that, let's turn to the results for the period, starting with our consolidated results. Consolidated revenues were up 7% for the quarter and 4% year-to-date. Revenues in all periods are conformed based on our updated measurement, which excludes net investment gains from our total revenues. All reportable segments were up year-over-year for both the quarter and year-to-date periods.

接下來，讓我們來看看本期業績，先來看看合併業績。本季綜合營收成長7%，年初至今成長4%。所有期間的收入均根據我們更新後的計量方法進行調整，該方法從我們的總收入中剔除了淨投資收益。所有可報告分部在季度和年初至今期間均實現同比增長。

Operating income for the quarter was $1 billion versus $1.4 billion in the comparable period last year. Operating income includes net investment gains, which as historically been the case, drove most of the year-over-year variance. Net investment gains were $433 million for the quarter compared to $918 million in the comparable period last year.

本季營業收入為 10 億美元，而去年同期為 14 億美元。營業收入包括淨投資收益，而投資淨收益歷來是造成年比差異的主要原因。本季淨投資收益為 4.33 億美元，去年同期為 9.18 億美元。

Our new metric of adjusted operating income totaled $621 million for the quarter, up $121 million or 24% versus the same period last year. A quick reminder that adjusted operating income excludes net investment gains and amortization expense. We believe this metric will provide better insights on the reoccurring operating performance of our businesses.

本季調整後的營業收入總額為 6.21 億美元，比去年同期成長 1.21 億美元，增幅達 24%。需要提醒的是，調整後的營業收入不包括淨投資收益和攤銷費用。我們相信，這項指標將為我們業務的持續經營績效提供更深入的見解。

Insurance contributed $153 million of the adjusted operating income increase for the quarter and $100 million year-to-date due to improvements in underwriting results and increases in net investment income. The other segments were relatively flat compared to last year for both periods. Operating cash flows for the first nine months were $2.1 billion. Comprehensive income to shareholders was $793 million for the quarter and $2 billion for the first nine months of this year.

由於承保業績改善和淨投資收益增加，保險業務為本季調整後營業收入成長貢獻了 1.53 億美元，為今年迄今的調整後營業收入成長貢獻了 1 億美元。其他幾個細分市場在兩個時期內與去年同期相比都相對穩定。前九個月的營運現金流為21億美元。本季歸屬於股東的綜合收益為 7.93 億美元，今年前九個月的綜合收益為 20 億美元。

Turning now to our operating segments, starting with our Markel Insurance segment. Results from our Markel Insurance segment now include underwriting and insurance activities, along with the results from our investments that are held by Markel Insurance subsidiaries. This change to a balance sheet view let it be clear what the after-tax returns on our insurance capital are on an annual and five-year average basis. Due to the inclusion of equity securities within our insurance capital, we believe a five-year average metric is a better gauge of long-term performance. The average after-tax return on equity for Markel Insurance for the five-year period of 2020 through 2024 was 12%.

現在讓我們來看看我們的營運部門，首先是我們的Markel保險部門。我們Markel保險業務部門的表現現在包括核保和保險活動，以及Markel保險子公司所持有的投資的表現。資產負債表視圖的這種變化，可以清楚地顯示我們保險資本的稅後收益，包括年度收益和五年平均收益。由於我們的保險資本中包含了股權證券，我們認為五年平均指標更能衡量長期績效。Markel Insurance 在 2020 年至 2024 年五年期間的平均稅後權益回報率為 12%。

Underwriting gross written premiums were up 11% year-over-year for the quarter and 4% year-to-date, driven by growth in our personal lines, general liability lines and our international lines for the year and our reinsurance professional lines in the quarter. The increase in reinsurance professional lines was driven by the timing of two large contract renewals that occurred prior to the execution of the renewal rights deal.

本季承保毛保費年增 11%，年初至今年增 4%，主要得益於個人險、一般責任險和國際險業務的年度增長以及再保險專業險業務的季度增長。再保險專業險種的成長是由兩份大型合約續約的時機所驅動的，這兩份合約續約發生在續約權交易執行之前。

Premium volume for the quarter within our Wholesale and Specialty division was down 6% versus last year, due to the exit of our US risk-managed professional liability lines earlier this year and down 1% excluding the 5% impact from these exited lines. Our International and Programs and Solutions divisions both had strong growth in underwriting premiums in the quarter of 25% and 12%, respectively. Earned premium was up 5% for the quarter and 2% year-to-date due to increased growth in more recent quarters. Adjusted operating income for Markel Insurance was $428 million for the quarter, up from $276 million in the same quarter last year.

由於今年稍早我們退出了美國風險管理型專業責任險業務，本季我們批發和專業險部門的保費收入比去年同期下降了 6%；如果排除這些退出業務帶來的 5% 的影響，則下降了 1%。我們的國際業務部和專案與解決方案部門在本季承保保費分別實現了 25% 和 12% 的強勁成長。由於近幾季的成長，本季已賺保費成長了 5%，年初至今成長了 2%。Markel Insurance 的調整後營業收入本季為 4.28 億美元，高於去年同期的 2.76 億美元。

The combined ratio for the quarter came in at just under 93% compared to 97% last year. The 4 point improvement consisted of lower cat activity, which drove 3 points of the difference with lower losses from CPI contributing another point. For the year, the combined ratio stands at 95% for both periods. The results from our runoff Global Reinsurance division added 2 points to both our current year quarter-to-date and year-to-date combined ratios.

本季綜合比率略低於 93%，去年同期為 97%。4 分的改善主要歸功於貓的活動減少，這帶來了 3 分的差距，而 CPI 造成的損失減少又貢獻了 1 分。本年度兩個期間的綜合比率均為 95%。我們全球再保險部門的業績下滑，使我們本年度本季至今和年初至今的綜合比率均增加了 2 個百分點。

Our International division continues to produce fantastic results for the year, with a year-to-date combined ratio of 84%. The quarter and year-to-date expense ratio of 36% is slightly higher than a year ago. Higher expenses were primarily driven by higher personnel costs, primarily within our international division, and increased third-party professional fees and severance costs. Prior year loss development was consistent at 6 points favorable in both the quarter and year-to-date periods in both years.

我們的國際部門今年持續取得優異的業績，年初至今的綜合比率為 84%。本季及年初至今的費用率為 36%，略高於去年同期。支出增加主要是因為人員成本增加（主要發生在我們的國際部門）、第三方專業費用和遣散費增加所致。上年同期虧損發展在兩個年份的季度和年初至今期間均保持 6 個百分點的有利水準。

For our 2025 year-to-date results, favorable development across several product classes across the globe was partially offset by adverse development in our reinsurance casualty lines and in our discontinued risk-managed professional liability lines, both of which were recognized during the first half of this year.

就我們 2025 年至今的業績而言，全球多個產品類別的有利發展被再保險意外險業務和已終止的風險管理專業責任險業務的不利發展部分抵消，這兩項不利發展均在今年上半年得到確認。

Investment income within our insurance operations was up 10% for the quarter and 9% year-to-date due to higher interest rates and volume of investments held within our fixed income portfolio. As a reminder, 96% of our fixed income portfolio is rated AA or better.

由於利率上升以及固定收益投資組合中持有的投資規模增加，我們保險業務的投資收益本季增長了 10%，年初至今增長了 9%。再次提醒，我們96%的固定收益投資組合的評等為AA級或更高。

Moving next to beyond our Markel Insurance segment and starting with the Industrial segment. Revenues were $1 billion, up 5% versus the same quarter one year ago, driven by increased industrial production activity and demand in the wind energy, construction and building products industries, partially offset by softening demand in the auto industry.

接下來，我們將目光轉向Markel保險業務以外的領域，首先從工業領域開始。營收達 10 億美元，比去年同期成長 5%，主要得益於風能、建築和建材業的工業生產活動和需求增加，但部分被汽車業需求疲軟所抵銷。

Adjusted operating income was $101 million for the quarter versus $112 million in the same quarter a year ago, down 9% year-over-year driven by softening demand in the auto industry and higher raw material and labor costs across several businesses.

本季調整後營業收入為 1.01 億美元，而去年同期為 1.12 億美元，年減 9%，主要原因是汽車產業需求疲軟以及多個業務的原材料和勞動力成本上升。

Next, within our Consumer and Other segment, revenues and adjusted operating income within the Consumer and Other segment have a significant seasonal variability due to the timing of sales of ornamental plants, which are heaviest during the second quarter of the year. Revenues were $291 million, up 10% versus the same quarter a year ago. Revenue growth benefited from the acquisition of EPI and higher sales volume of ornamental plants.

其次，在我們的消費者及其他業務板塊中，由於觀賞植物的銷售時間（每年第二季銷售量最大），消費者及其他業務板塊的收入和調整後營業收入存在顯著的季節性波動。營收為 2.91 億美元，比去年同期成長 10%。營收成長得益於收購EPI以及觀賞植物銷售增加。

Adjusted operating income was $17 million for the quarter versus breakeven in the prior year. The increase year-over-year was driven primarily by the contribution of EPI and increases from operating leverage resulting from the higher sales of ornamental plants.

本季調整後營業收入為 1,700 萬美元，而上年同期為損益兩平。與前一年相比，成長主要由 EPI 的貢獻以及觀賞植物銷售額增加所帶來的經營槓桿效應所推動。

Next, within our Financial segment. Revenues for the quarter were $162 million, up 16% year-over-year due to higher fronting fees and earned premium within our program and lender services products. Adjusted operating income was $61 million for the quarter, down 23% from the same period last year driven by favorable loss development on the runoff reinsurance contracts for Markel CATCo Re, which were recognized in the third quarter of 2024, all of which was attributable to noncontrolling interest. Excluding that impact, adjusted operating income across our other businesses was up notably in line with the revenue growth.

接下來，我們來看看金融板塊的狀況。本季營收為 1.62 億美元，年增 16%，這主要得益於我們專案和貸款機構服務產品中更高的預付費用和已賺保費。本季調整後的營業收入為 6,100 萬美元，比去年同期下降 23%，主要原因是 Markel CATCo Re 的清算再保險合約的損失發展有利，這些損失在 2024 年第三季確認，全部歸因於少數股東權益。剔除此影響後，我們其他業務的調整後營業收入與收入成長基本一致，實現了顯著成長。

Finally, regarding capital allocation. For the year, we repurchased shares totaling $344 million, reducing our share count to 12.6 million shares from 12.8 million at the end of last year.

最後，關於資本配置。今年，我們回購了總計 3.44 億美元的股票，使我們的股票數量從去年年底的 1,280 萬股減少到 1,260 萬股。

With that, let me pass it over to Simon to discuss more about Markel Insurance.

接下來，我會把麥克風交給西蒙，讓他來詳細談談馬凱爾保險公司。

Thank you, Brian. Good morning, everyone. It's great to be with you on the call today to discuss a solid set of results for Markel Insurance for the quarter with a combined ratio in the low 90s and GWP growth of 11% versus Q3 last year. This growth is mainly being driven by our high-performing international and personal lines divisions, where prior year strategic investments in new people, products and systems are paying off.

謝謝你，布萊恩。各位早安。很高興今天能和大家一起參加電話會議，討論 Markel Insurance 本季度穩健的業績，綜合比率在 90% 左右，保費收入比去年第三季度增長了 11%。這一成長主要得益於我們業績優異的國際業務和個人業務部門，這些部門前一年在人才、產品和系統方面的策略投資正在取得成效。

Where our performance is more challenged or market conditions are less favorable, we are concentrating on improving the portfolio, and as such, growth is muted. Cycle management remains at the forefront of our minds, but we are taking advantage of areas where we have developed competitive advantage.

在業績面臨更大挑戰或市場條件不太有利的情況下，我們會集中精力改善投資組合，因此成長較為緩慢。週期管理仍然是我們關注的重點，但我們正在利用我們已經建立競爭優勢的領域。

The team at Markel Insurance couldn't be more aware that we need to demonstrate genuine progress to you. It is good to be started along that path. The coordinated set of recent actions are beginning to have an impact on the organization. Step by step, we're working towards achieving our full potential.

Markel Insurance 的團隊深知，我們需要向您展示真正的進展。開始走這條路是件好事。近期一系列協調一致的行動開始對組織產生影響。我們正一步一腳印地朝著充分發揮自身潛力而努力。

Step 1. The first big step we began in earnest around two years ago when we began reshaping our portfolio with a particular focus on casualty and professional classes in the US In both areas, we have made meaningful changes to tighten our risk appetite as well as improving pricing and terms. Where we were unable to achieve the required improvements in specific areas, we made the decision to exit lines. As a result, we've seen tangible benefits. Our year-to-date combined ratio within our recurring business stands in the high 80s.

第一步。大約兩年前，我們真正開始邁出了第一大步，那就是重新調整我們的投資組合，尤其關注美國的意外險和專業險類別。在這兩個領域，我們都做出了有意義的改變，以收緊我們的風險承受能力，並改善定價和條款。對於我們無法在特定領域實現所需改進的情況，我們決定退出該領域。因此，我們看到了切實的好處。今年迄今為止，我們經常性業務的綜合比率高達 80% 以上。

This factors in two items versus our reported combined ratio. First, excluding the 3.5 point impact from exited lines, the largest of which are US and European risk-managed professional lines along with CPI and second, a 2 point drag in the overall combined ratio from the Global Reinsurance division results. We're now seeing improved and more consistent underwriting performance in the divisions where these changes were implemented. I remain excited by the sequential improvement. It's still early days, but we believe these early outcomes validate the tough decisions we made to set a stronger foundation for future growth.

這與我們報告的綜合比率相比，考慮了兩個因素。首先，排除退出業務帶來的 3.5 個百分點的影響，其中最大的是美國和歐洲的風險管理專業險種以及 CPI；其次，排除全球再保險部門業績對整體綜合比率造成的 2 個百分點的拖累。現在，在實施這些變革的部門中，我們看到核保績效有所改善，並且更加穩定。我對這種循序漸進的進步感到興奮。現在還處於早期階段，但我們相信這些早期成果證明了我們為未來發展奠定更堅實基礎所做的艱難決定是正確的。

Step 2. With the portfolio streamlined and greater discipline in place, our next big step began earlier this year, shifting our focus from simply pruning the portfolio and exiting profitable lines to actively pursuing profitable growth. Our strategy is based on a clear go-to-market structure, where we have created a series of distinct P&Ls, each headed by a leader who has full responsibility and accountability for the performance of their unit. This structure pushes decision-making closer to the customer and allow for greater speed and response time.

第二步。隨著投資組合的精簡和紀律的加強，我們今年稍早邁出了下一步，將重點從簡單地精簡投資組合和退出獲利產品線轉移到積極追求獲利成長。我們的策略是基於清晰的市場進入結構，我們創建了一系列獨立的損益表，每個損益表都由一位負責人負責，該負責人對其部門的業績負有全部責任。這種結構將決策權下放給客戶，從而提高了速度和反應時間。

Specific actions we have taken are as follows: We have collapsed our matrix reporting structure in the US We reorganized into four simple and distinct divisions. We removed reporting of State National and Nephila into Markel Group. We aligned our financial reporting to the new structure so that we can clearly see where there is underperformance that needs to be addressed. We can also see where we are having success, enabling us to divert investments to these areas to continue to fuel profitable growth.

我們採取的具體行動如下：我們已取消了在美國的矩陣式報告結構，並將公司重組為四個簡單而獨立的部門。我們已將 State National 和 Nephila 的報告併入 Markel Group。我們調整了財務報告結構，使其與新的結構保持一致，以便我們能夠清楚地看到哪些方面存在業績不佳的情況需要解決。我們還可以看到我們在哪些方面取得了成功，從而可以將投資轉向這些領域，以繼續推動獲利成長。

We moved over 80% of the people that previously worked for the central functions into the new created P&L. This provides transparency over costs for business owners and also ensures that the work of these individuals is fully aligned with business needs. And on our last earnings call, I announced the exit of Global Re.

我們將先前在中央職能部門工作的 80% 以上的人員轉移到了新成立的損益部門。這不僅能讓企業主了解成本狀況，也能確保這些人員的工作與企業需求完全一致。在上次財報電話會議上，我宣布退出 Global Re。

Every single one of these changes were designed to simplify our business model and enhance our ability to provide market-leading specialty insurance products to brokers and customers around the world. Beyond these organizational changes, we strengthened our margin of safety by increasing reserves, particularly in our Reinsurance division and our risk-managed or large-account U.S. D&O book. This continues Markel's tradition of conservative reserving, which protected our balance sheet through cycles of uncertainty. We've consistently have reserves that are more likely redundant and deficient, demonstrated through 20 consecutive years of favorable prior year loss reserve releases.

這些改變的每一項都是為了簡化我們的商業模式，並增強我們向世界各地的經紀人和客戶提供市場領先的專業保險產品的能力。除了這些組織變革之外，我們還透過增加準備金來加強安全邊際，尤其是在我們的再保險部門和風險管理或大客戶美國董事及高階主管責任險業務方面。這延續了 Markel 一貫的保守儲備傳統，從而在不確定的周期中保護了我們的資產負債表。我們一直以來都擁有可能冗餘且不足的儲備金，這已透過連續 20 年有利的往年損失準備金釋放得到證明。

Step 3. Now that we've made our way through the bulk of the necessary organizational changes, we are turning our focus to execution, including developing bottom-up, customer-focused business plans by our new P&L owners for 2026 and beyond. I'm confident these plans will enhance the experience of our customers, which will in turn grow the business and ultimately increase our profitability. While we are still early in the game, the overall energy and execution I'm witnessing across the business continues to be encouraging.

步驟 3.現在我們已經完成了大部分必要的組織變革，我們將重點轉向執行，包括由我們新的損益負責人制定自下而上、以客戶為中心的 2026 年及以後的業務計劃。我相信這些計劃將提升客戶體驗，進而促進業務成長，並最終提高我們的獲利能力。雖然我們仍處於早期階段，但我從整個業務中看到的整體活力和執行力仍然令人鼓舞。

First, let me share a story about our US personal lines business that illustrates the impact of the changes we have made. As we reorganize the business into distinct P&Ls, one business unit that stood out for the right reasons was our personal lines business based out of Wisconsin. This organization has been growing strongly over several years with excellent profitability. Jeff May runs the business and outlined a plan to overhaul the technology stack over the next two years.

首先，讓我分享一個關於我們美國個人保險業務的故事，以說明我們所做改變的影響。當我們將業務重組為不同的損益表時，有一個業務部門因其良好的表現而脫穎而出，那就是我們位於威斯康辛州的個人保險業務。這家公司近年來發展迅猛，獲利能力出色。Jeff May 負責公司經營，並制定了未來兩年內徹底改造技術架構的計畫。

In our previous structure, this investment opportunity hasn't managed to rise sufficiently up the priority list. But now that Jeff sets the priorities for this business, the plan was very much on the table. We took the decision to go ahead with the implementation within days. And Jeff and his team are now implementing a system which will consolidate our position as the market leader in E&S homeowners business in the US with expectations to grow this business to over $1 billion a year in annual GWP.

在我們先前的架構中，這項投資機會的優先順序一直不夠高。但現在傑夫已經確定了這家公司的優先事項，這個計畫就擺上了檯面。幾天之內，我們就決定開始實施。傑夫和他的團隊現在正在實施一套系統，該系統將鞏固我們在美國 E&S 房主業務市場中的領導地位，預計該業務的年度 GWP 將成長到超過 10 億美元。

Second is a story about how we are doing more with less in our core US Wholesale and Specialty business. After taking the helm in late April this year, Wendy Houser set about reorganizing our business, Wendy reduced the total number of regions from eight to four, simplifying our go-to-market structure and creating the opportunity to reduce costs.

其次，我們將講述我們如何在美國核心批發和專業業務中，以更少的資源創造更多價值。今年四月下旬，溫蒂‧豪瑟 (Wendy Houser) 接任公司領導後，著手重組公司業務。她將區域總數從八個減少到四個，簡化了市場推廣結構，從而創造了降低成本的機會。

Some tough decisions were made, particularly around people, but we're now operating the business at a lower salary base than before without impacting levels of service. The four regions have full P&L responsibility with an excellent line of sight into the financials, and so I expect this recent cost discipline to continue.

我們做出了一些艱難的決定，尤其是在人事方面，但我們現在以比以前更低的工資標準經營業務，而服務水準並未受到影響。這四個地區對損益負有全部責任，對財務狀況有非常清晰的了解，因此我預計這種近期的成本控制措施將會持續下去。

Stories like this exist throughout Markel Insurance. The new structure helps bring them to the surface and enables us to do several things at once. If our business leaders have well-thought-out plans, we are ready and willing to support them.

像這樣的故事在 Markel 保險公司屢見不鮮。新的結構有助於將它們展現出來，並使我們能夠同時做幾件事。如果我們的企業領導者有深思熟慮的計劃，我們隨時準備好並願意支持他們。

What will success look like a story like this compound? What can you, as investors track to know that things are progressing. Early progress isn't always obvious right away in the numbers, especially in long-tail insurance. It will first show up in the way our people think, the speed at which we move and serve and the trust and credibility we're restoring with our partners and our customers.

對於像這樣的化合物來說，成功會是什麼樣子？身為投資者，您可以追蹤哪些資訊來了解事情的進展？早期進展並不總是能立即從數字中體現出來，尤其是在長期保險領域。首先，它將體現在我們員工的思維方式、我們行動和服務的速度，以及我們正在重建的與合作夥伴和客戶之間的信任和信譽。

Some of the sign postal leading indicators we're monitoring include employee engagement source, customer net promoter scores, growth in submission count, increase in our quote rate improvement in our quote-to-bind ratio and growth in new business within our targeted areas. As these indicators start to move in the right direction, the financials should take care of themselves.

我們正在監控的一些郵政領先指標包括員工敬業度來源、客戶淨推薦值、投遞量成長、報價率提高、報價與成交率改善以及目標區域內新業務成長。隨著這些指標開始朝著正確的方向發展，財務狀況自然會好轉。

The WSIA conference in San Diego last month, Wendy Houser, the President of our Wholesale and Specialty division, said very pointedly to the press that we're back. Our leadership team is confident in the changes we've made. It will take time to show up. But with each passing day, the team is working together in new and better ways.

上個月在聖地牙哥舉行的 WSIA 會議上，我們批發和專業部門總裁 Wendy Houser 非常明確地向媒體表示，我們回來了。我們的領導團隊對我們所做的改變充滿信心。它需要時間才能顯現出來。但隨著時間的推移，團隊的合作方式也不斷改進和提升。

I'm excited about our position in the marketplace, whether it's in our top-quality international operations, our niche business units such as surety and personal lines, or our improving core US wholesale and specialty division, we have plenty of runway to grow and to grow profitably. We'll continue to work hard to make that a reality.

我對我們在市場上的地位感到興奮，無論是我們一流的國際業務，還是我們像擔保和個人保險這樣的利基業務部門，亦或是我們正在不斷進步的美國核心批發和特種業務部門，我們都有足夠的增長空間，並且能夠實現盈利增長。我們將繼續努力，使之成為現實。

With that, I'll hand you back to Tom.

好了，我這就把你交還給湯姆。

Thank you, Simon. And with that, Kelvin, we'll open the floor for your questions.

謝謝你，西蒙。那麼，凱爾文，現在我們開始回答你的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Andrew Kligerman, TD Cowen.

（操作說明）Andrew Kligerman，TD Cowen。

I'd like to start in the insurance division with the expense ratio at 36%, which is relatively high versus specialty peers. And then kind of contrast it with what you're doing in technology spend and how to try to make the company more efficient. Could you talk on the interaction of those two dynamics and where the expense ratio could go over the next few years?

我想從保險部門著手，該部門的費用率為 36%，與專業同行相比相對較高。然後將其與你在技術支出方面所做的工作以及如何提高公司效率進行比較。您能否談談這兩種動態之間的相互作用，以及未來幾年費用率可能會如何變化？

Thank you, Andrew. I'll ask Brian to start off addressing that.

謝謝你，安德魯。我先請布萊恩來談談這個問題。

Sure. Let me say a couple of things there. First of all, like where we are this year, we're kind of right where we thought we would be for this year. If you mix in the fact that we've had some product exits, some contraction in a few spots where we needed to shore up the overall underwriting results, that does carry a little bit of a burden on the expense ratio.

當然。我想在此說明幾點。首先，就我們今年的狀況而言，我們基本上已經達到了我們預期的目標。如果考慮到我們退出了一些產品市場，以及在一些需要鞏固整體承保業績的領域進行了業務收縮，這確實會對費用率造成一些壓力。

The other piece I would say is where we are growing. If you think about those classes, international lines in Europe, expansion in Asia, US surety, those lines are very, very profitable for us, but they do shift the mix between the loss ratio and the expense ratio that are added to the expense ratio overall.

我想說的另一點是我們的發展方向。如果你考慮這些業務類別，例如歐洲的國際業務、亞洲的擴張、美國的擔保業務，這些業務對我們來說非常非常有利可圖，但它們確實改變了賠付率和費用率之間的比例，從而增加了整體費用率。

From an investment standpoint, Simon mentioned the investment in the personal line space. Now that we have individual businesses, we have an investment portfolio that's out there. We're looking to make the investments that we need to, to kind of shore up our results overall. While we're focused on expenses and managing those and we expect to bring those down over time, we're really focused on the combined ratio and the overall profitability of the business and in our return on equity, the new metric that we put out there and that overall kind of capital return and the returns that we produces inside of insurance.

從投資角度來看，西蒙提到了對個人保險領域的投資。現在我們擁有了獨立的企業，也就擁有了一個對外開放的投資組合。我們正在尋求進行必要的投資，以鞏固我們的整體表現。雖然我們專注於費用管理，並希望隨著時間的推移降低這些費用，但我們真正關注的是綜合比率和業務的整體盈利能力，以及我們推出的新指標——股本回報率，以及整體資本回報和我們在保險業務中產生的回報。

Maybe the last thing I'll mention there is we talked about the exit of Global Re in that division. And while that division has poorly performed from a combined ratio perspective and been a drag on the results, 2 points kind of in the quarter and year-to-date, that division does have a lower than kind of normalized expense ratio for us. But as that premium burns off, at around a 28% expense ratio, that will be a little bit of a drag on the overall reported expense ratio as the earned premium remix is back to the insurance side.

最後我想提一下，我們討論了 Global Re 退出該部門的情況。雖然從綜合比率來看，該部門表現不佳，拖累了業績（本季和年初至今都下降了 2 個百分點），但該部門的正常費用率低於我們的正常水平。但隨著保費的消耗，費用率達到 28% 左右，由於已賺保費重新分配到保險方面，這將對整體報告費用率造成一定程度的拖累。

Maybe, Brian, I might just add a couple of points on this, Andrew as well. It's Simon. Look, I obsessed with the combined ratio. That's the most important metric that we have overall. Brian talked about the mix between some of our business units, which have been performing incredibly well the last few years. And the odd thing is there that mainly they've had a high expense ratio. Now what I wouldn't say is that a high expense ratio leads to a great combined ratio. That's not the point here.

布萊恩，或許我還可以補充幾點，安德魯也是。是西蒙。你看，我當時特別在意綜合比率。這是我們最重要的衡量指標。布萊恩談到了我們一些業務部門的組合，這些部門在過去幾年中表現得非常出色。奇怪的是，他們的費用率一直很高。但我不會說高費用率一定能帶來優秀的綜合比率。這不是重點。

But what we do need to be very conscious of is as we look to the expense ratio and we look to reduce it, and we very much are focused on that as a strategic imperative, we need to do that in areas where we're actually cutting costs out of the business, which are frictional costs. There are some costs here where there are genuine investments like the personal lines thing, it will probably heighten the expense ratio for a couple of years in that area. But in the long term, that creates a heck of a lot of scale potential within a business-like personal lines.

但我們需要非常清楚地意識到，當我們審視費用率並努力降低費用率時（我們非常重視降低費用率，並將其視為一項戰略要務），我們需要在實際削減業務成本的領域，也就是摩擦性成本領域，來做到這一點。這裡有些費用，例如個人保險這類真正的投資，可能會在未來幾年內提​​高該領域的費用率。但從長遠來看，這為商業化的個人保險業務創造了巨大的規模潛力。

Where I'm really looking for the rubber to hit the road is in these individual P&Ls and looking at individuals who want to invest in the business. That case has to be rock solid because anything which is just sort of fat within the organization, I think that's going to get highlighted a lot more than it has been in previous years now, and we're going to go after that. We're going to go after it hard.

我真正想看到成效的地方在於這些個人的損益表，以及那些想要投資這家企業的個人。這個案子必須非常確鑿，因為我認為，組織內部任何冗餘的東西都會比往年更容易被曝光，我們會追查到底。我們會全力以赴。

So the point I'll make is we have got a focus on the expense ratio. It is in the context of the most important metric that we have is the combined ratio, but we're looking to get rid of expenses that aren't additive to the business. But we're not going to stop investing in areas that I think it's got a great potential to build the franchise over a period of time. So it might be a bit bumpy over '26 and Brian spoke about Global Re there, but believe me we will be focused on that metric as we go through '26 and into '27, it's an area where we do need to improve.

所以我想說的是，我們現在關注的是費用率。最重要的指標是綜合比率，但我們希望削減那些對業務沒有增益的開支。但是，我們不會停止在那些我認為有潛力在一段時間內建立起特許經營權的領域進行投資。所以 2026 年可能會有些坎坷，布萊恩也談到了全球再保險，但請相信我，在 2026 年和 2027 年，我們將重點關注這一指標，這是我們確實需要改進的領域。

Very helpful. And then maybe just thinking about gross written premium, which was strong at 11%. And I mean international has been just a really bright spot. But looking at US wholesale and specialty, I think Brian said ex the exit of the risk managed business, the US risk managed business, it was up about 5%, and then in Programs and Solutions, we saw a 17% increase, could you give a little color on where you're seeing the successes in programs and US wholesale and specialty, respectively?

很有幫助。然後或許可以考慮一下毛保費收入，其成長率高達 11%。我的意思是，國際業務一直是一個非常亮點。但就美國批發和特種業務而言，我認為布萊恩說過，除去風險管理業務，美國風險管理業務增長了約 5%，而在專案和解決方案方面，我們看到了 17% 的成長。您能否分別介紹一下您在專案和美國批發及特種業務方面取得的成功情況？

Yeah. Maybe I'll start, Andrew. On the wholesale and specialty, so the reported results was down [6 points]. [5 points] of that 6 points we were down was the impact of the risk-managed product line exit. So down [1 point], excluding that, relatively flat.

是的。或許我會先開始，安德魯。批發和特種產品方面，報告績效下降了6個百分點。這6個百分點中的5個百分點是由於風險管理型產品線退出所致。所以下降了[1 分]，排除這個因素，整體比較平穩。

What I would say there is you think about the three products we write there, professional, casualty, property, casualty is up while we're being very selective, but we're getting good rate on that business, low double-digit rate on kind of primary, higher than that on more excess lines.

我想說的是，想想我們承保的三種產品：專業責任險、意外險和財產險。雖然我們非常謹慎地選擇承保對象，但意外險業務的成長勢頭良好，我們在這個業務上獲得了不錯的費率，主險費率低至兩位數，超額險費率則更高。

So the growth is not growth in exposure. It's growth driven by rate. Property, we are trying to grow, but there's a little bit of challenge in the rate environment there. Professional has been relatively holding flat. We've been growing a little bit in our management liability lines and some of the commercial professional. But that is an area both in the property and the professional space where growth in the future is where we're targeting.

所以，這種成長並非曝光量的成長。這是由利率驅動的成長。我們正在努力拓展房地產業務，但目前的利率環境帶來了一些挑戰。專業領域整體保持相對穩定。我們在管理責任保險和一些商業專業責任保險方面略有成長。但無論是在房地產領域或專業領域，這都是我們未來發展的目標領域。

Yeah. And obviously, let's talk about -- we'll talk about wholesale and specialty first. You just mentioned that the sort of the nuts and bolts of that, Brian. That, I would say, Andrew, we've got to get to grips with the loss ratio situation in that business. That's what's been hurting us. That's why we've made those decisions to exit lines in the various areas. And frankly, casualty is a difficult class of business. At the moment to get the price right, we can see that.

是的。顯然，我們先來談談批發和特種產品。布萊恩，你剛才提到了其中的具體細節。安德魯，我想說的是，我們必須正視這個行業的賠付率問題。這就是一直困擾我們的原因。這就是我們決定在各個區域設立出口線路的原因。坦白說，意外傷害保險是一個很難處理的業務。目前來看，要把價格定好是可行的。

So selective in terms of our risk appetite, making the right decisions in terms of additional pricing. And those two bits in combination should get us to the combined ratio that work for us. But we're not -- we're certainly not putting our foot to the floor in the casualty area even though the rating is pretty attractive, in some respects, just because the exposure there is equally -- probably tricky in terms of where to place your chips in that particular area.

因此，我們在風險承受能力方面非常謹慎，在額外定價方面做出了正確的決定。這兩個因素結合起來應該可以讓我們得到適合我們的綜合比率。但我們並沒有——我們當然不會在意外傷害領域全力投入，即使該領域的評級在某些方面相當有吸引力，僅僅是因為該領域的風險敞口同樣——可能很棘手，因為在該特定領域應該把籌碼放在哪裡。

Elsewhere in wholesale and specialty, yes, there's competition in the professional and the property. We think that we've got a really good mouse trap in those two areas to attract business into Markel, the clarity of the new structure, I think, is paying dividends with our partners, the broker partners that are out there. And I think that will continue to attract business back into Markel that's within appetite and at the right price. So there will be continued headwinds from the market conditions in those two areas.

在批發和專業領域，是的，專業人士和房地產市場都存在競爭。我們認為，我們在這兩個領域找到了吸引企業進入 Markel 的真正有效的策略，我認為，新結構的清晰度正在為我們的合作夥伴，也就是現有的經紀合作夥伴帶來回報。我認為這將繼續吸引符合市場需求且價格合適的客戶重返Markel。因此，這兩個領域的市場狀況將持續帶來不利影響。

Programs and solutions, really nice business areas. They're very discrete. I think we've mentioned personal lines where we feel we've got probably a bad product and a really good way of interacting with that particular area. We're also seeing a lot of growth and a lot of growth opportunity in the program space. The business that's run by Jeff Lamb here.

專案和解決方案，非常好的業務領域。他們非常謹慎。我認為我們已經提到過個人護理產品線，我們覺得我們可能有一個不太好的產品，但有一個非常好的方式來與該特定領域互動。我們也看到，在節目製作領域，我們看到了很多成長和很多成長機會。這家公司由傑夫·蘭姆經營。

That is an area where it's clear that many of the large wholesale brokers are investing a heck of a lot of resource into those -- into that program space. That provides opportunities to us. We are highly, highly selective in that space, but just the number of new opportunities that are coming through. The desk is driving a degree of growth there. And we think we've picked some good programs to be onset, which are growing with in the marketplace.

很明顯，許多大型批發經紀商都在該專案領域投入了大量資源。這為我們提供了機會。我們在這個領域非常、非常挑剔，但湧現的新機會數量卻非常多。這張辦公桌在某種程度上推動了那裡的業務成長。我們認為我們已經挑選了一些不錯的節目進行開播，這些節目在市場上正在不斷發展壯大。

Finally, I'd probably call out the workers' comp business and the surety business continue to be really solid businesses for us. They've been fairly discrete within the Markel Insurance world. We now called them out that much more. But because they've got those singular leaders on top, they are able to focus on the customers and focus on the actual products that they're getting over the line there. And I think that additional degree of independence is allowing those businesses to grow, and I think that will continue over time.

最後，我想特別提一下，工傷賠償業務和擔保業務對我們來說仍然是非常穩健的業務。他們在 Markel 保險界一直相當低調。我們現在更公開地譴責他們了。但正因為有了這些傑出的領導者，他們才能專注於客戶，並專注於他們最終交付的產品。我認為這種額外的獨立性讓這些企業得以發展壯大，而且我認為這種情況會隨著時間的推移而持續下去。

So program, solutions, I think there are some specific market conditions, which continue to help us. I think the new structure helps those guys. In Wholesale and Specialty, it's loss ratio first alongside the combined ratio. And I think as that stabilizes, as we go into next year, I think our position in the market will help us continue to grow in that particular area in areas that we think we can make profit.

所以，在專案和解決方案方面，我認為有一些特定的市場條件，這些條件會繼續幫助我們。我認為新的組織架構對他們有幫助。在批發和專業零售領域，首先要考慮的是損失率，其次是綜合比率。我認為隨著市場趨於穩定，進入明年，我們在市場上的地位將有助於我們在我們認為可以獲利的特定領域繼續成長。

Maybe on the international side, I'll add. That's a place where we've been consciously investing in people some of the driver of the elevated expense ratio is the personnel costs in that division. You're starting to see the fruits of that coming through the top line with growth in kind of expanded territories in Asia and Europe, along with product expansion where we've been rolling out casualty products to more geographic regions. We've invested in people in both of those spaces, seeing that start to come through the top line more pronounced this quarter.

或許在國際方面也是如此，我補充道。我們一直在有意識地投資人才，而該部門人員成本是導致費用率上升的部分原因。從亞洲和歐洲擴張地區的營收成長，以及產品線的擴張（我們將意外險產品推廣到更多地區），這些都開始帶來成果。我們在這兩個領域的人才方面都進行了投資，並且在本季度開始看到這些投資在營收方面有了更明顯的體現。

Andrew Andersen, Jefferies.

Andrew Andersen，傑富瑞集團。

Some good favorable reserve development overall. If I were to maybe just pick at one thing and a question here is I think you called out some adverse on international professional liability. Can you maybe just expand on that, maybe what accident years? And the reason I ask is I think you were releasing from international professional liability in '23 and '24.

整體而言，儲備發展勢頭良好。如果非要挑一個毛病的話，那就是我認為你指出了國際職業責任的一些不利因素。能否詳細說明一下，例如哪幾年發生的事故？我這麼問是因為我認為你在 2023 年和 2024 年放棄了國際職業責任。

Yeah, that is correct. We did have a couple of large claims come in and large claims. I'm talking the 5 million, 10 million-ish site claims from a standpoint to us. While we had adverse development there, it's nothing to the range of the things we've been talking about in the past few years. So it's a fairly modest amount. It just happened to be the driver in the period. We feel really good about overall that book and the profitability.

是的，沒錯。我們確實收到了一些金額較大的索賠案件。我指的是從我們的角度來看，那些聲稱擁有 500 萬到 1000 萬用戶的網站。雖然那裡的發展出現了一些不利因素，但這與我們過去幾年一直在討論的事情相比，根本不算什麼。所以金額相當有限。那段時間正好是他的司機。我們對這本書的整體表現和獲利能力都非常滿意。

In terms of the periods, it's more -- it's not in the current year. It's more of the couple back prior years than it is the current year or in years that are more deep into the tail.

就時間段而言，更確切地說——它不屬於今年。更多的是往年那對夫婦的情況，而不是今年或更久遠的年份。

Got you. And then just thinking about capital management. Buyback has been maybe a little bit lighter in the last two quarters than I would have otherwise thought. So I would love to just hear your thoughts, Tom, on kind of capital deployment priorities, whether it's buyback. And I think there might have been an article earlier this quarter just about insurance M&A perhaps being back on the table. And maybe that was misconstrued, and it was more of a comment around teams and technology for insurance M&A, but I would just love to hear your overall thoughts there.

抓到你了。然後就開始思考資金管理的問題。過去兩季的股票回購規模可能比我預想的要小一些。所以，湯姆，我很想聽聽你對資本部署優先事項的看法，例如是否應該進行股票回購。而且我認為本季早些時候可能有一篇文章專門討論了保險業併購可能重新提上日程。也許我的話被誤解了，我更多的是在談論保險併購中的團隊和技術問題，但我很想聽聽你們的整體看法。

Well, I think you answered the second part of the question, when you asked it. So I think it was misconstrued. We have successfully added teams and talent over the years, and we look to continue to do that. The first important principle is actions speak louder than words. The number one use of capital and capital deployment bed for the last couple of years has been buying back our own shares. We're price sensitive when we do so.

嗯，我覺得你問出這個問題的時候，就已經回答了問題的第二部分。所以我覺得這件事被誤解了。多年來，我們成功地擴充了團隊並吸收了人才，我們希望繼續這樣做。第一個重要原則是：行動勝於雄辯。過去幾年，資本的第一用途和資本部署方式就是回購我們自己的股票。我們這樣做時對價格很敏感。

Unfortunately, market seems to be acknowledging and understanding and appreciating a bit the changes we've made here. And you look year-over-year, the stock price was up at any given point in time, 15% to 20% compared to what it had been last year.

遺憾的是，市場似乎沒有意識到、理解並欣賞我們所做的這些改變。從年比來看，股價在任何特定時間點都比去年同期上漲了 15% 到 20%。

So we respond to that. We're sensitive to that. We continue to buy stock through our program on a daily basis. And you can expect us to continue to do that, and you can expect us to be very rational and buy more if the price is low, and buy less as the price moves up, and our largest single capital allocation choice has been to repurchase shares. In rough, rough numbers over the course of the last five years, the share count at Markel at its highest was just a bit shy of 14 million shares. It's now down to 12.6 million.

所以我們會對此作出回應。我們對此很敏感。我們每天都會透過我們的計劃繼續購買股票。您可以期待我們繼續這樣做，您可以期待我們非常理性，價格低時買入更多，價格上漲時買入更少，我們最大的單筆資本配置選擇就是回購股票。根據過去五年的粗略估計，Markel 的股票數量最高時略低於 1,400 萬股。現在已降至1260萬。

In rough numbers, that's 10% of the shares that have been repurchased. The next 10% reduction, I don't think that will take 5 years, especially at these kind of prices. So that might happen in three to five years. So 1 10% tranche is done, another 10% tranche underway. So we'll be buying back stock.

粗略估計，這相當於已回購股份的 10%。我認為下一次降價 10% 不會需要 5 年時間，尤其是在這樣的價格水平下。所以這種情況可能會在三到五年內發生。第一個 10% 的批次已經完成，第二個 10% 的批次正在進行中。所以我們會回購股票。

Mark Hughes, Truist.

馬克·休斯，Truist。

When we think about international versus the US, you talked about some of the expense versus loss ratio dynamics. Is the combined ratio opportunity better internationally? Is there just a -- that's a better loss environment?

當我們考慮國際市場與美國市場時，您談到了一些費用與損失比率的動態變化。國際上的綜合比率機會是否較好？是否存在一種－更好的損失環境？

Before Simon answers that question, you're talking about international, the US first thing I thought about was the Rider Cup. And the US needs to do better. So we're working on that.

在西蒙回答這個問題之前，你談到了國際賽事，我首先想到的是美國騎手杯。美國需要做得更好。所以我們正在努力解決這個問題。

I've been thinking about the Rider Cup a lot lately, but not really thinking about it. So there we are. Thank you for that reference, Tom. That's excellent. I think there are plenty of places in the US where you can go after business from a loss ratio perspective, which is very, very attractive. They typically are in the, I would say, lower exposed areas, but also almost lower premium type areas. They're kind of the small, micro business.

最近一直在想騎手杯的事，但又沒怎麼認真想過。就是這樣。謝謝你提供的參考信息，湯姆。太好了。我認為在美國有很多地方，從損失率的角度來看，你可以去那裡尋找業務，這非常非常有吸引力。它們通常位於曝光率較低的區域，但同時也是檔次較低的區域。他們是那種規模很小的微型企業。

We, international, have been building that side of our business for probably 10 to 12 years. and the loss ratio, let me tell you, back in '16, '17 in international wasn't that great. But I think as we scale up those retail operations that we've got in places like Europe, Canada, the UK regions and increasingly in our Asia Pacific business, the weighting of the business, which is that small, micro business is really -- has grown within that division. And we've seen the loss ratio come down consistently as a result.

我們國際業務部門已經發展這部分業務大概有 10 到 12 年了。而且我告訴你，在 2016 年、2017 年，國際事業的賠付率並不理想。但我認為，隨著我們在歐洲、加拿大、英國等地以及亞太地區等地擴大零售業務規模，小型、微型企業在該部門的比重也隨之成長。因此，我們看到損失率持續下降。

Quite a lot of the business that we're backing out, the London operations. I mean, people think about London as kind of large ticket volatile business. Well, quite a lot of the business that we have back there is delegated authority business where the ultimate customer is smaller micros. So there's a very like heavy focus in our international business at a small and micro end of the risk area.

我們正在撤出的業務中，很大一部分是倫敦的業務。我的意思是，人們認為倫敦是一個交易額龐大、波動性大的行業。嗯，我們那邊的許多業務都是委託授權業務，最終客戶是規模較小的微型企業。因此，我們的國際業務非常注重風險領域的小型和微型企業。

Now that has two dynamics. One is typically a relatively low loss ratio, but it does go alongside that higher expense ratio. And frankly, I don't mind paying a little bit more to excess and service business, which is going to consistently perform at a lower loss ratio. I think that's a healthy kind of balance that we've got within the business. We do, of course, have larger ticket risks as well to look at in the energy space, for example, and some of the marine risks. But by and large, we've got a relatively small micro focus with our international operations, and we've been really pleased with that.

現在這其中包含兩種動態。一方面，賠付率通常相對較低；另一方面，費用率也較高。坦白說，我不介意為超額保險和服務業務多付一點錢，因為這類業務的賠付率會一直比較低。我認為這是我們公司內部一種健康的平衡。當然，我們也需要考慮能源領域中更大的風險，例如一些海洋風險。但總的來說，我們在國際業務方面採取了相對較小的微觀策略，我們對此感到非常滿意。

That's probably been lacking a little bit in some of our -- in the US portfolio as a whole. So we've been in the mid-market there. And in recent years, and we've had core results actually in many of the areas where we've gone into the very large risk segment. Things like the US large ticket D&O is a perfect example, where we've gone down that route.

這可能在我們的一些——或者說我們整個美國投資組合中——有所欠缺。所以，我們一直都處於中階市場。近年來，我們在許多涉足高風險領域的領域都取得了核心成果。以美國高額董事及高階主管責任險為例，我們就走上了這條道路。

So I do think over time, one of the things that I'd like to bring with increased focus on technology. Some of the teams of people that we're going to be bringing in, in those programs and solutions businesses will be to go after that small micro business within the US to an increasing level. And that will, over time, I think, bring down the loss ratio to a degree. So maybe it won't be exactly in line with international. But I do think there's a ton of opportunity in the US to go after. Maybe it's just not been a huge focus of what we have been doing, but it will be a focus of what we'll be doing in the future and the investments that we'll be making.

所以我認為隨著時間的推移，我希望透過更加重視技術來實現的目標之一。我們將引入一些團隊，加入這些專案和解決方案業務，目標是不斷擴大美國境內的微型企業規模。我認為，隨著時間的推移，這將在一定程度上降低損失率。所以它可能不會完全符合國際標準。但我認為美國有很多機會值得爭取。也許它不是我們一直以來工作的重點，但它將成為我們未來工作的重點，也是我們未來投資的重點。

At risk of answering a different question than what you asked, so my colleagues caution me on this all the time because this is not going to help you model anything better or make a quantitative point, but it's a qualitative point that really drives the results over time. So this exact discussion is something that Simon and I actually talked about at some length when the two of us, along with some other colleagues, walked 130 miles last year from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Cumberland, Maryland on the Great Allegheny Passage. And one of the things we talked about was I mean, obviously, insurance is a business where it's never going to be perfect, and you're always going to have losses.

這樣做可能會回答與你提出的問題不同的問題，所以我的同事總是告誡我，這樣做並不能幫助你更好地建模或提出量化的觀點，但它確實是一個定性的觀點，隨著時間的推移，它會真正驅動結果。所以，去年我和西蒙以及其他一些同事一起，沿著大阿勒格尼通道從賓夕法尼亞州匹茲堡步行 130 英里到馬裡蘭州坎伯蘭時，我們確實詳細討論過這個問題。我們討論的其中一件事是，很明顯，保險業永遠不會完美，你總是會有損失。

But what does it look like to have a loss? What does the loss mean? What is the way in which you can be compensated fairly for the size and scale of the losses you're taking? And what should your overall profile be to understand and absorb the losses that are just part and parcel of this business? So that effort has been underway for a while. There have been some very thoughtful work done on where we should be and where we shouldn't be. And you're starting to see what I would call the green jute of this quarter where that's starting to pay off. We look forward to green shoots coming in the years to come. But I can assure you a lot of thought and work and thoughtfulness has gone into the way we approach the business.

但失敗究竟是什麼樣的呢？損失意味著什麼？面對如此巨大且嚴重的損失，你如何才能獲得公平的補償？那麼，為了理解和承受這個行業不可避免的損失，你的整體素質應該如何呢？這項工作已經進行了一段時間了。已經有人對我們應該在哪裡以及不應該在哪裡進行了非常深入的研究。你開始看到我所說的本季的“綠色黃麻”，也就是開始獲得回報了。我們期待未來幾年能看到新的曙光。但我可以向你保證，我們在處理業務方面投入了大量的思考、努力和周全考慮。

Appreciate that perspective. Curious to get your thoughts if it looks like storm season, at least domestically is going to end up being pretty quiet. What do you think that means for property in 2026?

我很欣賞這種觀點。很好奇你們覺得如果看起來像是暴風雨季節，至少在國內，天氣會不會相當平靜。你認為這對2026年的房地產市場意味著什麼？

Well, as the old saying goes, what you see depends on where you stand. And there are some people in various parts of the world right now that would not think that this was a benign storm season. So our thoughts and prayers are with them. That's real damage. And one of the things we hang our hat on and we're proud of in this business is we help people get back on their feet when they've experienced either sudden and dramatic loss or gradual losses over time.

正如古語所說，你所看到的取決於你站在哪裡。現在世界各地有些人不認為這是一個溫和的風暴季。所以，我們與他們同在，為他們祈禱。這是實實在在的損失。在這個行業裡，我們引以為傲的一點是，我們幫助人們在經歷突然而巨大的損失或隨著時間的推移而逐漸的損失後重新站起來。

Clearly, again, I think you've answered your own question to some degree, the overall aggregate cat losses were lower this year than what had been expected. And that tends to put pressure on rates. The good news about Markel written large is that we spread of business. So we are not a cat-dependent or exclusively or even majority property-oriented companies. So this is a normal course of business.

顯然，我認為你已經在某種程度上回答了自己的問題，今年的巨災總損失低於預期。而這往往會對利率造成壓力。馬克爾最大的好處在於，我們的業務不斷擴張。所以，我們不是依賴貓咪的，也不是完全或主要以房地產為導向的公司。這是正常的業務流程。

Yeah. And I'll pick up at an exact point there, Thomas. If I look at the portfolio overall, property plays a relatively small -- a relatively small part of our overall offering. We're more of a casualty professional lines and then sort of nuanced specialties that go alongside it. So probably relatively small.

是的。湯瑪斯，我就從那裡繼續講下去。如果從整體投資組合來看，房地產在我們整體產品組合中所佔的比例相對較小。我們更著重於意外傷害專業險種，以及與之相關的各種細分專業險種。所以可能相對較小。

I do think you've seen insurance cycles before. If you look at the specific cycle within property, there's going to be pressure on reinsurance. As a buyer of reinsurance, that should probably benefit us going into next season, but that will have a knock on in the primary markets where, particularly in the US brokerage property space, I think that's going to come under even more pressure next year than it has done this year. And it definitely is a competitive part of the market at present.

我認為你以前也經歷過保險業的周期性波動。如果觀察房地產行業的具體週期，就會發現再保險業將面臨壓力。作為再保險的購買者，這可能會讓我們受益於下一季的市場，但這會對一級市場產生連鎖反應，尤其是在美國經紀財產保險領域，我認為明年它將面臨比今年更大的壓力。而且，這無疑是目前競爭非常激烈的市場領域。

What we're doing in that is very much focused on price adequacy. If it works within the portfolio, the price is adequate, then we'll continue to compete in that area. Once you go over the line and it's not adequate anymore, we don't need to chase that market down. I think the other thing that benefits us a little bit is we also say that our international portfolio is typically small micro.

我們在這方面所做的工作，非常注重價格的合理性。如果它符合產品組合要求，價格也合適，那麼我們將繼續在該領域競爭。一旦越界，不再適用，我們就無需再去追逐那個市場了。我認為對我們略有好處的另一點是，我們也說我們的國際投資組合通常規模較小，屬於微型企業。

I do think the majority of our US risks are probably medium, medium, small. In that part of the market, it's slightly less competitive in property than it is in the large ticket risk where you've got kind of structured and layered programs, which really are in very much in the competitive space at the moment.

我認為我們美國面臨的大部分風險可能都是中等偏小的。在這個市場領域，房地產市場的競爭程度略低於大額創投市場，後者擁有結構化和分層的項目，目前競爭非常激烈。

So I think we're pretty well placed. One by virtue of not being overly dependent on the property market. But secondly, the part of the property market that we do play in, I think, it's a little bit more sheltered from this level of competition in other areas. So expect to see more competition, but I like our position in the market overall because of the balance of the portfolio that we've created over time.

所以我覺得我們處境相當有利。其一是因為它沒有過度依賴房地產市場。但其次，我認為我們所涉足的房地產市場領域，受到的競爭程度比其他領域小一些。因此，預計競爭會更加激烈，但我對我們目前在市場上的整體地位感到滿意，因為我們隨著時間的推移創造了均衡的投資組合。

And one final point to pick up on that and extended the good news is we don't have to chase it down because we have other things to do. And that's not just within the realm of insurance. We do have an investment portfolio, which has been collapsed into the segments, but it still exists. And it's a pretty big number of recurring dividend and interest income that flows in here. We have a set of industrial, commercial and financial consumer businesses that generates pretty nice returns, too. So the good news is we have the ability to remain rational in ways that people without our structure would not enjoy.

最後還有一點要補充說明，好消息是我們不必為此費心，因為我們還有其他事情要做。而且這不僅限於保險領域。我們確實有一個投資組合，雖然它已被拆分成各個板塊，但它仍然存在。而且，這裡流入的經常性股利和利息收入金額相當大。我們擁有一系列工業、商業和金融消費業務，這些業務也能帶來相當不錯的回報。所以好消息是，我們有能力保持理性，而沒有我們這種結構的人則無法做到這一點。

And then finally, any observations on mix shift to and from the E&S market and what that might mean for you all?

最後，大家對E&S市場成分股的流入和流出有什麼看法？這對你們來說可能意味著什麼？

Yeah, it's a very dynamic market at the moment. That's for sure. I think you're saying the property question that you asked previously, I think that's probably the most intense area where you're seeing movement between E&S and retail. At the moment, there's a lot of pressure in the E&S space, in particular, in property. So maybe that will drop back into the retail market. I think in professional lines as well, that happened a little bit earlier where we saw some of that going back into the retail market rather than the wholesale market. So there's a little bit of that, that we definitely see.

是的，目前市場瞬息萬變。那當然。我想你指的是你之前問過的房地產問題，我認為這可能是房地產和零售業之間流動最劇烈的領域。目前，環境和社會領域，特別是房地產領域，面臨很大的壓力。所以，或許它會重新回到零售市場。我認為在專業產品領域，這種情況發生得更早一些，我們看到其中一些產品重新流入了零售市場，而不是批發市場。所以，這方面確實有一些，我們確實看到了。

So there's nuances between E&S and the admitted market, for sure. One area where -- which is counter to that is casualty. I mean the casualty market is a hard market at the moment for good reason. And we're seeing a lot more opportunity in the E&S space there. Structurally, I would suggest that the wholesale market, we've seen this over a number of years, is a different place now than it was even five years ago and certainly a decade ago.

所以，E&S 與已獲准上市的市場之間肯定存在一些細微差別。與此相反的一個領域是傷亡。我的意思是，目前意外傷害保險市場行情艱難，這是有充分理由的。我們看到，在環境和社會領域中還有更多的機會。從結構上看，我認為批發市場，正如我們多年來所看到的，現在與五年前，甚至十年前相比，已經截然不同了。

So the expectation is that an awful lot of this business that has flowed into the wholesale marketplace will remain there albeit in some areas at slightly more competitive rates. But we're looking at that part of the market now being almost like 25%, I think, of the commercial lines space, maybe a little bit higher than that if you include the Lloyd's market. And as well my sense is that it stays at that level and probably continues to edge up a little bit just because of the sophistication of what we see from the wholesale brokers and retail brokers trying to get into that space as well.

因此，預計流入批發市場的絕大部分業務仍將留在批發市場，儘管在某些地區價格會更具競爭力。但我們現在看到的這部分市場，我認為已經占到商業保險市場的近 25%，如果算上勞合社市場，這個比例可能會更高一些。而且我的感覺是，它會保持在這個水平，並且可能會繼續小幅上升，這只是因為我們看到批發經紀人和零售經紀人為了進入這個領域而變得更加成熟。

So I like the fact that we play E&S where we can move the rate as we need to. We can change terms and conditions. I also like the fact that there is a pull factor into that marketplace due to the strength of the wholesale marketplace is just materially different than it was a decade ago.

所以我喜歡我們玩E&S遊戲的一點是，我們可以根據需要調整利率。我們可以更改條款和條件。我也很喜歡這個市場的吸引力，因為批發市場的實力與十年前相比已經發生了實質的變化。

In the spirit of the Rider Cup, I was trying to think of some way to heckle you all, but facts up today. So I guess I'll just not do that. So I appreciate the good answers. Have a great day. .

本著萊德杯的精神，我一直在想辦法嘲諷你們所有人，但今天先說說事實。看來我還是不這麼做了。非常感謝大家的精彩回答。祝你有美好的一天。。

Drew Estes, Banyan Capital Markets Management.

Drew Estes，榕樹資本市場管理公司。

I really like the reporting updates. So thank you all for that. I have a couple of questions regarding your fronting operations, which are sizable. One is a housekeeping item and the other one is a more general question. So first on a housekeeping item. I was surprised that Markel Insurance, it's fronting operations were so large as opposed to State National. Is that mainly business that's flowing through to Nephila?

我非常喜歡這些報道更新。所以，非常感謝大家。關於你們的前端業務，我有幾個問題，這些業務規模相當大。一個是家務瑣事，另一個是更一般性的問題。首先，說說一件家事。令我驚訝的是，Markel Insurance 及其代理商業務的規模竟然如此之大，而 State National 則不然。流向尼菲拉的業務主要是這些嗎？

You got it, Drew. That's right. So we bifurcated kind of where the fronting is reported. So what sits in our programs and solutions division in the insurance segment, that is the business that we front on our Bermuda paper for Nephila. And that's the only thing that sits in there today in that division. The State National business, the traditional program services business, that sits in the Financial Services segment.

明白了，德魯。這是正確的。所以我們根據報告的前置訊號情況進行了某種程度的劃分。所以，在我們保險領域的專案和解決方案部門，也就是我們為 Nephila 提供的百慕達債券業務。而這就是目前該部門唯一保留下來的東西。State National 業務，即傳統的專案服務業務，屬於金融服務部門。

Okay. And for the more general question, a lot of alternative capital seem to have flown into the E&S market. And there's a lot of new fronting carriers out there that have clearly taken some share. And I'm curious, are these new entrants gaining share mainly by relaxing collateral and capital requirements? And if so, how do you ensure the State National doesn't relax its standards in an environment like that?

好的。至於更普遍的問題，似乎有許多另類資本湧入了環境和社會市場。而且，現在有許多新的前端運營商，它們顯然已經佔據了一部分市場份額。我很好奇，這些新進入者是否主要透過放寬抵押品和資本要求來獲得市場份額？如果真是這樣，如何確保州立國家鐵路公司在這種環境下不會放鬆標準？

Yeah. Thank you, Drew. It's an excellent question. And clearly, State National was at the forefront and the leader in really the timer in developing the market. And when you're the leader in the first actor, you can kind of set terms and conditions in the -- define the field and have it as you like it. In every business in the world that I've ever observed in my lifetime, when somebody does well, competition appears. And the terms and conditions change and set and evolve over time. And fronting and State National work, it is no different whatsoever.

是的。謝謝你，德魯。這是一個很好的問題。顯然，State National 在市場開發方面一直處於領先地位，是真正的時代引領者。當你是第一位參與者的領導者時，你可以設定條款和條件－定義領域並以你喜歡的方式進行。在我一生中觀察過的所有行業中，當有人做得好的時候，就會出現競爭。條款和條件會隨著時間的推移而改變、設定和發展。而競選和州級/國家級工作，也完全沒有差別。

The good news is the culture, the long-term discipline, the return on capital discipline that is consistent with everything else we do about Markel, applies at State National as well. And they compete in the world in which they live, but they do so with adherence to standards and values and discipline that's consistent for the rest of the organization. So we don't get to choose what the external environment is like. We get to choose the discipline we have to face it. And we've got a long history around here of doing exactly that across the organization, no matter where you're talking about.

好消息是，我們在 Markel 所做的一切，都秉持著一致的文化、長期紀律和資本回報紀律，而這些也同樣適用於 State National。他們在自己所處的世界中競爭，但他們始終堅持與組織其他成員一致的標準、價值觀和紀律。所以我們無法選擇外在環境是什麼樣的。我們可以選擇用何種方式面對它。而且，無論你談論的是哪個部門，我們公司一直以來都有著這樣做的傳統。

Yeah. I appreciate that, and I'm glad to hear it. But just quickly as a follow-up, are you seeing the new entrants compete by relaxing collateral and capital requirements? Or are they mainly focused on pricing?

是的。我很感激，聽到這個消息我很高興。但我想快速補充一點，您是否看到新進入者透過放寬抵押品和資本要求來競爭？還是他們主要關注的是價格？

Well, I think -- I mean, that's really all the way of saying pricing. So it's sort of a net price when you define it, as lower collateral, what have you. So the price is the answer.

嗯，我覺得──我的意思是，這其實就是在說定價。所以，如果你把它定義為淨價，例如抵押品減少等等，那它就有點像淨價了。所以價格就是答案。

Andrew Kligerman, TD Cowen.

Andrew Kligerman，TD Cowen。

Just following up on the prior question about fronting. In both segments, actually, in insurance, it was up 51%, $1.8 billion in the last 9 months. And I'm kind of wondering, what was driving that? What kind of gave you that upside? And same thing in the financial segment where operating revenues were up 18% in the nine months to $513 million. I assume a big part of that was fronting. And maybe you could give a little color on where you're seeing that just the outlook in both segments for the fronting business.

關於前面提到的前端問題，我只是想跟進。事實上，在保險業，這兩個領域在過去 9 個月中成長了 51%，達到 18 億美元。我很好奇，是什麼原因導致了這種情況？是什麼讓你獲得了這種優勢？金融領域的情況也類似，前九個月的營業收入成長了 18%，達到 5.13 億美元。我猜想其中很大一部分是掛名。或許您可以稍微介紹一下您目前對前端業務這兩個細分市場的展望。

Sure, Andrew. It's Brian. So let's take the fronting at Nephila and programs first. There, what we've seen, Nephila had some nice growth in premium. We've used the MBL balance sheet that's allowed them to place more business with the AUM that they have on their books and grow that business at attractive rates that are out there in the property market.

當然可以，安德魯。是布萊恩。那麼，我們先來看看 Nephila 的前台和專案。從我們所看到的來看，Nephila 的高端產品取得了不錯的成長。我們利用 MBL 的資產負債表，使他們能夠利用帳面上的資產管理規模開展更多業務，並以房地產市場中極具吸引力的利率發展業務。

If you think back to when they placed a lot of that business, first four to six months of this year was a very attractive rate environment. That book is going to perform very well on the fronting side, and it's going to perform very well, considering where we are thus far in the year from an investor standpoint with the low level of cat losses that are out there.

回想一下他們開展這些業務的時間，今年前四到六個月的利率環境非常有吸引力。考慮到今年迄今投資人所處的境況，以及目前巨災損失水準較低，該書在前端方面將會表現得非常好。

So the vast, vast majority of that is property cat business that's fronted in the program space. So with the rate environment, growth aspirations at Nephila, that's really what drives the fronting revenues that we see in the programs and solutions division.

因此，其中絕大部分都是透過程序空間進行代理的財產貓業務。因此，在當前的利率環境和 Nephila 的成長目標下，這才是我們在專案和解決方案部門看到的前端收入的真正驅動因素。

Within program services, it's kind of a mixture. They signed on some new programs as they mass renew and brought in some new business. And then you've just got underlying growth in their kind of wider range of programs. They're hitting kind of all product classes. It's a pretty varied and mixed set of business there across property, casualty, workers' comp lines that they front and they just got natural growth coming from their producers that are partnering with them to front business.

在專案服務方面，情況比較複雜。他們簽訂了一些新合同，並進行了大規模續約，同時也引進了一些新業務。然後，他們的各種項目也實現了潛在的成長。他們幾乎涉足了所有產品類別。他們的業務範圍相當廣泛，涵蓋財產險、意外險、工傷賠償險等，而且他們的業務成長主要來自與他們合作的代理商。

So it sounds like in both segments, these trends are sustainable into 2026.

聽起來這兩個領域的這些趨勢都將持續到 2026 年。

Yeah. I would say you're looking at -- the property market is certainly going to be a bigger driver on the vision and the Nephila fronting where it's going to be more broader insurance trends and our ability to kind of add on new programs. In the program space, you can have chunky things come in and out. You signed new agreements. People either move on or if you're fronting for them because they're -- they've been downgraded from a rating standpoint, they cure that, that program goes away. So there can be some chunky movements from time to time in that program services business in both directions.

是的。我認為，房地產市場無疑將成為推動願景和 Nephila 業務發展的更大動力，而更廣泛的保險趨勢以及我們增加新項目的能力也將發揮作用。在程式空間中，你可以讓大量的內容進入和退出。你簽署了新的協議。人們要么繼續前進，要么如果你替他們撐腰，因為他們的評級被下調了，他們解決了這個問題，那個項目就消失了。因此，程序服務業務可能會不時出現一些較大的雙向波動。

Got it. Okay. And then in the industrial segment, there was a little pressure, I think, Brian. You called out soft auto demand and higher materials costs in the auto area despite good performance in the other segments. Do you see this continuing to play out over the next year or so?

知道了。好的。然後，我認為，在工業領域，壓力也比較大，布萊恩。您指出，儘管其他領域表現良好，但汽車領域的需求疲軟且材料成本較高。你認為這種情況會在未來一年左右繼續下去嗎？

Andrew, it's Tom. Yeah, I would describe this quarter and really these nine months, it's just normal oscillation of the business. So we had some things that were white hot last year that weren't quite as white hot this year. You have the tariff noise and the general economic environment. So there's puts and takes across the line. And I think that's normal for this collection of businesses.

安德魯，我是湯姆。是的，我會把本季乃至過去九個月的情況描述為正常的業務波動。所以去年有些東西非常火爆，但今年就沒那麼火爆了。你既要考慮關稅方面的干擾，也要考慮整體經濟環境。所以線上有來有往。我認為這類企業出現這種情況很正常。

(Operator Instructions) This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Tom Gayner for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

（操作說明）問答環節到此結束。我謹將會議交還給湯姆·蓋納，請他作總結發言。請繼續。

Thank you all for joining us. That concludes my closing remarks. See you next quarter. Thank you.

感謝各位的參與。我的總結發言到此結束。下個季度見。謝謝。

The conference call has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may disconnect.

電話會議已結束。感謝各位參加今天的報告會。您可以斷開連線。