MARA Holdings Inc (MARA) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the MARA Q2 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

您好，歡迎參加 MARA 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，本次會議正在錄音。

It's now my pleasure to turn the call over to Robert Samuels, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我很高興將電話轉給投資者關係副總裁羅伯特‧塞繆爾斯 (Robert Samuels)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to MARA's second-quarter 2025 earnings call. Thank you for joining us today. With me on today's call are our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Fred Thiel; and our Chief Financial Officer, Salman Khan.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，歡迎參加 MARA 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。感謝您今天加入我們。參加今天電話會議的還有我們的董事長兼執行長 Fred Thiel 和財務長 Salman Khan。

Today's call includes forward-looking statements, including those about our growth plans, liquidity, and financial performance. These involve risks and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially. We disclaim any obligation to update these statements, except as required by law. For more details, see the Risk Factors section of our latest 10-K and other SEC filings.

今天的電話會議包括前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們的成長計劃、流動性和財務業績的陳述。這些涉及風險和不確定性，實際結果可能存在重大差異。除非法律要求，我們不承擔更新這些聲明的任何義務。如欲了解更多詳情，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 報告和其他 SEC 文件中的風險因素部分。

We also reference non-GAAP financial measures like adjusted EBITDA and return on capital employed, which we believe are important indicators of MARA's operating performance because they exclude certain items that we do not believe directly reflect our core operations. Please see our earnings release for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures. We hope you've had the chance to read our shareholder letter and look forward to your feedback.

我們也參考了非 GAAP 財務指標，例如調整後的 EBITDA 和資本使用回報率，我們認為這些指標是 MARA 經營績效的重要指標，因為它們排除了我們認為不直接反映我們核心業務的某些項目。請參閱我們的收益報告，以了解與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對帳情況。我們希望您有機會閱讀我們的股東信並期待您的回饋。

We'll begin with some prepared remarks from Fred and Salman. After their comments, we are going to be conducting an analyst interview with management. Today's session will be conducted by Chris Brendler, analyst at Rosenblatt Securities.

我們將從弗雷德和薩爾曼準備好的演講開始。在他們發表評論之後，我們將對管理層進行分析師訪談。今天的會議將由羅森布拉特證券 (Rosenblatt Securities) 分析師克里斯布倫德勒 (Chris Brendler) 主持。

And with that out of the way, I'm going to turn the call over to Fred to kick things off. Fred?

解決了這個問題之後，我將把電話交給弗雷德來開始演講。弗雷德？

Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. No matter how you look at it, Q2 was a record-breaking quarter for MARA, setting new highs in revenues, adjusted EBITDA, net income, energized hashrate, lead efficiency, and blocks produced in a single month in May.

大家下午好，感謝大家的參與。無論從哪個角度來看，第二季度對於 MARA 來說都是破紀錄的一個季度，5 月份的收入、調整後 EBITDA、淨收入、激活哈希率、領先效率和單月區塊產量均創下新高。

Beyond performance, we continue to invest in the infrastructure that underpins our business from scaling low-cost flexible load data centers to exploring international opportunities in regions with abundant energy and growing demand for sovereign compute.

除了效能之外，我們還繼續投資於支撐我們業務的基礎設施，從擴展低成本靈活負載資料中心到探索能源豐富且主權運算需求不斷增長的地區的國際機會。

This quarter, in support of our strategy to support the load balancing needs of AI HPC data centers, we announced strategic partnerships with TAE Power solutions backed by Google and Pado AI backed by LG. Together, we're codeveloping grid responsive load balancing platforms that support the next generation of AI infrastructure, enabling us to monetize our energy and compute capabilities across broader markets.

本季度，為了支援我們支援 AI HPC 資料中心負載平衡需求的策略，我們宣布與Google支援的 TAE Power 解決方案和 LG 支援的 Pado AI 建立策略合作夥伴關係。我們共同開發支援下一代人工智慧基礎設施的電網響應負載平衡平台，使我們能夠在更廣泛的市場上將我們的能源和運算能力貨幣化。

As part of our low-cost energy strategy, we completed construction of a new behind the meter data center at our wind-powered site in Hanford County, Texas. This gives us access to low-cost power directly to the source, improving our margin structure and boosting energy efficiency.

作為我們低成本能源策略的一部分，我們在德州漢福德縣的風力發電場完成了一個新的電錶後資料中心的建設。這使我們能夠直接從源頭獲得低成本電力，改善我們的利潤結構並提高能源效率。

And subsequent to quarter end, our holdings surpassed 50,000 bitcoin, a milestone that solidifies MARA as the second-largest bitcoin holder globally. More importantly, this is a treasury we built through disciplined infrastructure development, scaled operations, and focused execution. Now, while some people may see us as a bitcoin treasury company, given the size of our bitcoin holdings, we don't consider ourselves as one.

在本季末之後，我們的比特幣持有量超過了 50,000 個，這一里程碑鞏固了 MARA 作為全球第二大比特幣持有者的地位。更重要的是，這是我們透過嚴謹的基礎建設、規模化的營運和專注的執行所建立的金庫。現在，雖然有些人可能將我們視為比特幣財務公司，但考慮到我們持有的比特幣規模，我們並不認為自己是比特幣財務公司。

We're invaders, builders, and operators. We're actively managing our bitcoin holdings to create long-term value for shareholders. Bitcoin remains our reserve asset, and we will continue to build on our holdings, whether through production or opportunistic purchases depending on market conditions.

我們是入侵者、建造者和營運者。我們正在積極管理我們的比特幣持有量，為股東創造長期價值。比特幣仍然是我們的儲備資產，我們將繼續增加我們的持有量，無論是透過生產還是根據市場情況進行機會性購買。

To that end, we made a minority investment in Two Prime, a digital asset management firm specializing in risk optimized yield strategies who've been managing a portion of our holdings. We will continue to make prudent decisions around allocation and risk exposure based on broader macro and market conditions.

為此，我們對 Two Prime 進行了少數股權投資，這是一家專門從事風險優化收益策略的數位資產管理公司，一直管理著我們的部分資產。我們將繼續根據更廣泛的宏觀和市場條件，對配置和風險敞口做出審慎的決策。

Regarding the current price of bitcoin, our view is that things feel a little frothy at the moment. While there is persistent demand for bitcoin, this is balanced by an ample supply owing to long-term holders taking profits from bitcoin held in some cases since the earliest years of bitcoin's infancy. Supply is currently being absorbed relatively well. But if the buying demand were to subside, we could see downward pressure as sellers attempt to lock in gains at these high price points.

關於比特幣的當前價格，我們認為目前的情況有點泡沫。雖然對比特幣的需求持續存在，但由於長期持有者從比特幣誕生之初就持有比特幣獲利，因此比特幣的供應充足。目前供應吸收得相對較好。但如果購買需求減弱，我們可能會看到下行壓力，因為賣家試圖在這些高價位鎖定收益。

With our recent convertible notes offering, we have significantly bolstered our balance sheet to have the flexibility to act across a range of strategic priorities, including opportunistic bitcoin purchases debt repurchase, M&A, and general corporate purposes. Whether bitcoin goes up or bitcoin goes down, we believe we are positioned to benefit.

透過最近發行的可轉換票據，我們大大增強了資產負債表，使其能夠靈活地採取一系列策略重點行動，包括機會性比特幣購買、債務回購、併購和一般公司用途。無論比特幣上漲或下跌，我們都相信自己能夠從中受益。

We're positioning MARA at the forefront of what's increasingly being recognized as digital energy or the use of technologies and data to take energy systems more efficient, reliable, and sustainable. This strategic focus enables us to capture value at the intersection of compute and energy a convergence that will define next-generation infrastructure economics.

我們將 MARA 定位於越來越被認可的數位能源或利用技術和數據使能源系統更加高效、可靠和永續的前沿。這一戰略重點使我們能夠在運算和能源的交叉點上捕捉價值，這種融合將定義下一代基礎設施經濟學。

We're exploring ways to design infrastructure for hybrid workloads like AI inference, which is a rapidly emerging which is rapidly emerging as the dominant workload in AI infrastructure. Another area that we believe will drive value is sovereign edge infrastructure and allowing enterprises and public sector customers to have jurisdictional and operational control over data, compute, and AI outputs.

我們正在探索為人工智慧推理等混合工作負載設計基礎設施的方法，人工智慧推理是一種快速興起的技術，正迅速成為人工智慧基礎架構中的主導工作負載。我們認為將推動價值的另一個領域是主權邊緣基礎設施，並允許企業和公共部門客戶對資料、運算和人工智慧輸出擁有管轄權和營運控制權。

We see growing demand for compute infrastructure that is geographically sovereign energy aligned and secure by design. We believe the addressable market is accelerating, particularly in Europe and emerging markets, where data sovereignty and energy efficiency are critical factors in purchasing decisions.

我們看到，對地理主權能源一致且設計安全的運算基礎設施的需求不斷增長。我們相信，潛在市場正在加速成長，特別是在歐洲和新興市場，數據主權和能源效率是購買決策的關鍵因素。

Our intent is to extend MARA's vertically integrated compute platform into edge environments that meet the unique needs of latency sensitive, compliance-driven, and workload diverse use cases. In this regard, we are working closely with government officials and major energy partners to extend our reach into global markets.

我們的目的是將 MARA 的垂直整合運算平台擴展到邊緣環境，以滿足延遲敏感、合規性驅動和工作負載多樣化用例的獨特需求。在這方面，我們正在與政府官員和主要能源合作夥伴密切合作，以擴大我們的全球市場影響力。

As part of these efforts, we've been laying the ground work for a regional headquarters in Saudi Arabia, and we have established entity in France as a European headquarters. We believe this approach will provide us access to low-cost energy by partnering with energy companies and infrastructure capital providers to lower our capital commitments. Through these efforts, we built a global growth pipeline exceeding 3 gigawatts, positioning us to scale efficiently across key markets.

作為這些努力的一部分，我們一直在為在沙烏地阿拉伯設立地區總部奠定基礎，並在法國設立了實體作為歐洲總部。我們相信，透過與能源公司和基礎設施資本提供者合作降低我們的資本承諾，這種方法將使我們能夠獲得低成本能源。透過這些努力，我們建立了超過 3 千兆瓦的全球成長管道，使我們能夠在主要市場有效擴展規模。

When you put it all together, as inference increasingly becomes the dominant cost center in AI, control over geography, latency, and energy cost becomes a strategic advantage. We'll continue to invest here to ensure MARA is well-positioned to meet this demand.

綜合起來，隨著推理日益成為人工智慧的主要成本中心，對地理、延遲和能源成本的控製成為一種戰略優勢。我們將繼續在此投資，以確保 MARA 能夠滿足這項需求。

We're excited to host our first ever Investor Day this fall. This inaugural event will offer a deep dive into our long-term road map with insights into how we are activating our digital energy strategies across mining, infrastructure, and AI. Joining us, please reach out to our Investor Relations team.

我們很高興今年秋天舉辦首屆投資者日。本次首屆活動將深入探討我們的長期路線圖，並深入了解我們如何在採礦、基礎設施和人工智慧領域啟動我們的數位能源策略。加入我們，請聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊。

To wrap up, Q2 was a milestone quarter. We grew our treasury, expanded our infrastructure, and proved once again that MARA is far more than a bitcoin mining company. We are the category leader in bitcoin mining. But our value lies in the infrastructure that underpins it, infrastructure that we're now leveraging to shape the future of compute.

總而言之，第二季度是一個里程碑式的季度。我們增加了資金，擴大了基礎設施，並再次證明 MARA 不僅僅是一家比特幣挖礦公司。我們是比特幣挖礦領域的領導者。但我們的價值在於支撐它的基礎設施，我們現在正在利用這些基礎設施來塑造運算的未來。

Thank you for your continued support as we build what is next. Now, I'll turn it over to Salman for additional insights on the quarter.

感謝您在我們建立下一步的過程中給予的持續支持。現在，我將把話題交給薩爾曼，請他提供有關本季的更多見解。

Thank you, Fred. In Q2, we delivered record financial performance, driven by strong execution and an improving bitcoin price environment. Over the past year, we've remained laser-focused on aligning shareholder interests with bitcoin ownership through disciplined operational execution. Between Q2 of 2024 and Q2 of 2025, our bitcoin holdings surged by over 170% going from approximately 18,500 BTC to nearly 50,000 bitcoin.

謝謝你，弗雷德。在第二季度，在強勁的執行力和不斷改善的比特幣價格環境的推動下，我們取得了創紀錄的財務表現。在過去的一年裡，我們始終致力於透過嚴格的營運執行，將股東利益與比特幣所有權結合起來。2024 年第二季至 2025 年第二季期間，我們的比特幣持有量激增超過 170%，從約 18,500 比特幣增至近 50,000 比特幣。

During the same period, our energized hashrate expanded by 82%, increasing from 31.5 exahash per second to 57.4 and the market value of our bitcoin holdings increased by more than $4.2 billion or 362% year over year.

在同一時期，我們的活躍哈希率增長了 82%，從每秒 31.5 exahash 增加到 57.4 exahash，我們持有的比特幣市值同比增長了 42 億美元以上，增幅達 362%。

Let me provide some financial highlights for the quarter. We broke some records. Revenues increased 64% to 238.5% -- excuse me, revenues increased 64% to $238.5 million from $145.1 million in the second quarter of 2024. This was the highest revenue quarter in the company history. The increase was primarily driven by a 50% increase in the average bitcoin price, which contributed $77 million.

讓我提供本季的一些財務亮點。我們打破了一些記錄。營收成長 64% 至 238.5%——不好意思，營收從 2024 年第二季的 1.451 億美元成長 64% 至 2.385 億美元。這是該公司歷史上收入最高的一個季度。這一增長主要得益於比特幣平均價格上漲 50%，貢獻了 7,700 萬美元。

We produced an average of 25.9 BTC each day during Q2 compared to 22.9 BTC each day in Q2 of 2024, which resulted in [300 more BTC] earned. Furthermore, we saw a 52% increase in the number of blocks won in the quarter compared to the second quarter of last year. May 2025 was the highest single month in our history.

我們在第二季平均每天生產 25.9 個 BTC，而 2024 年第二季平均每天生產 22.9 個 BTC，這導致我們賺取了 [300 個 BTC]。此外，與去年第二季度相比，本季贏得的區塊數量增加了 52%。2025 年 5 月是我們歷史上最高的單月。

We reported net income of $808.2 million or $1.84 per diluted share in the quarter compared to a net loss of $199.7 million or $0.72 per diluted share in the second quarter of last year.

我們報告本季淨收入為 8.082 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.84 美元，而去年第二季淨虧損為 1.997 億美元，即每股攤薄收益 0.72 美元。

We recorded a $1.2 billion gain on digital assets, including BTC receivable during the second quarter of 2025. This reflects the impact of bitcoin holdings on our balance sheet.

我們在 2025 年第二季記錄了 12 億美元的數位資產收益，包括 BTC 應收款。這反映了比特幣持有量對我們的資產負債表的影響。

Now, let's turn to cost structure. Our purchased energy cost per bitcoin for the quarter was $33,735 per coin, which we believe is among the lowest in the sector. And our daily cost for petahash per day improved 24% year over year. This improvement reflects our growing fleet of owned and operated sites, which now account for approximately 70% of our total hashrate. That transition continues to pay dividends, both operationally and financially.

現在，讓我們來談談成本結構。本季我們購買的每枚比特幣的能源成本為 33,735 美元，我們認為這是該行業中最低的。我們的每日 Petahash 成本較去年同期改善了 24%。這項改進反映了我們擁有和經營的站點數量的不斷增長，這些站點目前約占我們總哈希率的 70%。這種轉變在營運和財務方面繼續帶來回報。

Now, let me talk about our bitcoin holdings and asset management. MARA is the second-largest corporate public holder of bitcoin, and we seek to generate returns on our holdings as bitcoin price appreciates. Our dedicated bitcoin asset management team made up of seasoned professionals with decades of experience in hedge funds and crypto asset management actively pursues risk-adjusted return opportunities to generate cash flows that support our operating expenses.

現在我來談談我們的比特幣持有和資產管理。MARA 是比特幣的第二大企業公眾持有者，隨著比特幣價格上漲，我們尋求從持有的比特幣中獲得回報。我們專門的比特幣資產管理團隊由經驗豐富的專業人士組成，他們在對沖基金和加密資產管理方面擁有數十年的經驗，積極尋求風險調整後的回報機會，以產生支持我們營運費用的現金流。

We deploy bitcoin across a diversified portfolio of investment strategies, including lending, trading and other structured arrangements designed to unlock incremental value. Our approach combines the potential for long-term bitcoin appreciation with disciplined efforts to generate return while managing risk. To a lesser extent, we have also used bitcoin as a collateral to borrow under lines of credit.

我們在多元化的投資策略組合中部署比特幣，包括借貸、交易和其他旨在釋放增量價值的結構化安排。我們的方法將比特幣的長期升值潛力與嚴謹的努力相結合，以在管理風險的同時產生回報。在較小程度上，我們也使用比特幣作為抵押品來獲得信用額度的借款。

Let me deep dive down a little bit. During the quarter, we entered into a separately managed account or SMA agreement with Two Prime, which is an external full-service registered adviser and transferred 500 bitcoin in mid-May of 2025, followed by an additional 1,500 bitcoin in late June of 2025. As of June 30, 2025, a total of 2,004 bitcoin were held and actively managed within that SMA. The 500 bitcoin transferred in May 2025 generated an additional 4 bitcoin or additional $0.4 million in a short period of time.

讓我深入探討一下。在本季度，我們與 Two Prime（外部全方位服務註冊顧問）簽訂了單獨管理帳戶或 SMA 協議，並於 2025 年 5 月中旬轉移了 500 個比特幣，隨後在 2025 年 6 月下旬又轉移了 1,500 個比特幣。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，該 SMA 內共持有並積極管理 2,004 個比特幣。2025年5月轉移的500比特幣在短時間內又產生了4個比特幣，即40萬美元。

We managed the SMA to generate returns while limiting risk and it maintains liquidity with short-term notice followed -- following an initial one-year lockup. In addition, our bitcoin asset management team may from time to time engage in various bitcoin denominated traits such as auctions, futures, swaps, covered calls, and spot transactions to generate additional returns on our bitcoin holdings.

我們管理 SMA 以在限制風險的同時產生回報，並在最初的一年鎖定期之後透過短期通知保持流動性。此外，我們的比特幣資產管理團隊可能會不時參與各種以比特幣計價的交易，例如拍賣、期貨、掉期、備兌買權和現貨交易，以從我們的比特幣持有量中獲得額外回報。

I want to highlight that subsequent to quarter-end, we issued $950 million of 0% convertible senior notes due 2032. With this upsized convertible notes offering, we have significantly bolstered our balance sheet. This additional liquidity gives us the flexibility to act strategically, whether by acquiring more bitcoin funding M&A or repaying debt. Its purpose is not to fund day-to-day operations. We are under no pressure to deploy capital immediately. Instead, we are positioned to act in response to market conditions in order to maximize long-term shareholder value.

我想強調的是，在季度末之後，我們發行了 9.5 億美元、2032 年到期的 0% 可轉換優先票據。透過此次增發可轉換票據，我們大幅增強了資產負債表。這種額外的流動性使我們能夠靈活地採取策略行動，無論是透過收購更多比特幣資金、併購或償還債務。其目的不是資助日常營運。我們沒有立即部署資本的壓力。相反，我們會根據市場狀況採取行動，以最大化長期股東價值。

We are different from other BTC treasury companies, as Fred mentioned. As a core business is -- our core business is bitcoin mining and large-scale data center operations, even as we hold the second-largest bitcoin worldwide amongst public companies. Looking ahead, that sets us apart -- what -- looking ahead, what sets us apart is our thought leadership, worldwide operational scale and capital and operational efficiency.

正如 Fred 所提到的，我們與其他 BTC 財務公司不同。作為核心業務－我們的核心業務是比特幣挖礦和大型資料中心運營，儘管我們在上市公司中持有全球第二大比特幣。展望未來，我們與眾不同之處在於——展望未來，我們與眾不同之處在於我們的思想領導、全球營運規模以及資本和營運效率。

As of June 30, 2025, we held over $5 billion in liquid assets and with approximately $1 billion raised since gives us flexibility to fund domestic growth and pursue international expansion. Unlike passive treasury companies, we treat our bitcoin as a productive risk-managed asset through a disciplined asset management strategy, our holding strengthened the balance sheet and help fund operations which we believe will enhance long-term shareholder value. We don't just hold bitcoin. We put it to work.

截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們持有超過 50 億美元的流動資產，並且自那時起又籌集了約 10 億美元，這使我們能夠靈活地資助國內增長並進行國際擴張。與被動型財務公司不同，我們透過嚴格的資產管理策略將比特幣視為一種生產性風險管理資產，我們的持有加強了資產負債表並有助於為營運提供資金，我們相信這將提高長期股東價值。我們不只是持有比特幣。我們將其投入使用。

Finally, we remain on track to reach our 75 exahash goal by end of the year with all miners secured and funded except for $150 million that we expect to pay in the second half. We are laying the groundwork for 2026 and beyond. We are executing on a pipeline of energy infrastructure projects, both in the US and internationally. And we expect these investments to expand our capabilities, while costs are continuing to be low.

最後，我們仍有望在年底前實現 75 exahash 的目標，所有礦工都已獲得保障和資金，但我們預計將在下半年支付 1.5 億美元。我們正在為2026年及以後奠定基礎。我們正在美國和國際上實施一系列能源基礎設施項目。我們期望這些投資能夠擴大我們的能力，同時成本繼續保持低位。

With that, I'll turn over to Chris Brendler from Rosenblatt Securities to begin our management interview. Chris?

接下來，我將請羅森布拉特證券公司的克里斯布倫德勒 (Chris Brendler) 開始我們的管理層訪談。克里斯？

And thanks so much for inviting me to do this. This is super exciting to be able to dig through the results with you, guys. And also sort of an update on the strategy, a lot going on in corn and crypto these days.

非常感謝您邀請我做這件事。能夠和你們一起深入挖掘結果真是令人興奮。這也是對該策略的某種更新，最近在玉米和加密貨幣領域發生了很多事情。

So I guess I wanted to start with the mining business, the core mining business. And maybe for Fred, just sort of give me an update on -- so the current thinking around mining versus HPC. We've seen a lot of competitors increasingly look to move there power assets towards high-performance compute and potentially could sort of see a slowing of bitcoin mining competition. But at the same time, I think the network cash rate is reaching new highs again, even though we're in the middle of a pretty hot summer. So I would love to just hear your sort of 10,000-foot view on the big clear mining business as it stands today.

所以我想我想從採礦業務、核心採礦業務開始。也許對於 Fred 來說，請給我一些最新資訊——關於採礦與 HPC 的當前想法。我們看到許多競爭對手越來越多地尋求將其電力資產轉向高效能運算，並且可能會看到比特幣挖礦競爭的放緩。但同時，我認為網路現金利率再次創下新高，儘管我們正處於相當炎熱的夏季。因此，我很想聽聽您對目前大型採礦業現狀的整體看法。

Thank you, Christopher, joining us today. I think the -- as you look at the marketplace today, there's a shift occurring. You have companies who previously were kind of in the mid-tier of bitcoin mining, who have been working on a transition to HPC trying to leverage their energy assets. And you've been seeing really a couple of things happen. For one thing is not many of them have been able to secure contracts with hyperscalers, and some of them have moved towards essentially trying to go out and get customers, enterprise customers directly who will host with the leverage their capacity.

感謝克里斯多福今天加入我們。我認為——當你觀察當今市場時，你會發現正在轉變。有些公司之前處於比特幣挖礦的中層，他們一直致力於向 HPC 轉型，試圖利用他們的能源資產。您確實已經看到發生了一些事情。一方面，他們中沒有多少人能夠與超大規模企業簽訂合同，而其中一些人已經轉向嘗試直接出去獲取客戶，企業客戶將利用他們的容量進行託管。

We personally think that, that business is, over time, going to be very price competitive, and margins are going to compress because in most cases, bitcoin miners are really just providing power and if they're building buildings and making the investments, which according to some analysts can be as high as millions and millions of dollars per megawatt, well, over $10 million a megawatt, it's going to be hard for them to acquire customers. Many enterprise customers, one to work with people who have hosted enterprise customers before and understand how to run those types of data centers and most bitcoin miners don't. So you still haven't seen really any large number of these companies transition successfully HPC outside of a handful.

我們個人認為，隨著時間的推移，該業務的價格競爭將非常激烈，利潤率將會壓縮，因為在大多數情況下，比特幣礦工實際上只是提供電力，如果他們建造建築物並進行投資（據一些分析師稱，每兆瓦的投資可能高達數百萬美元，甚至超過 1000 萬美元），他們將很難獲得客戶。許多企業客戶，一個是與以前託管過企業客戶的人合作，了解如何運行這些類型的資料中心，而大多數比特幣礦工卻不知道。因此，除了少數公司之外，您還沒有看到任何大量公司真正成功地轉型為 HPC。

At the same time, you're seeing new entrants come to this market. You have Tether coming in. You have Bitmain, the single largest hardware vendor effectively taking control of a company called Cango, transferring hashrate to that company and becoming the number or largest bitcoin miner indirect competition with their customers. Tether themselves have stated the goal that they want to be the largest bitcoin miner in the world.

同時，你會看到新進入者進入這個市場。您有 Tether 進來了。比特大陸是最大的硬體供應商，它有效地控制了一家名為 Cango 的公司，將哈希率轉移給該公司，並成為與其客戶間接競爭的最大比特幣礦工。Tether 自己已經表明了他們想要成為世界上最大的比特幣礦工的目標。

So you're seeing a whole new entrant of people coming into this marketplace and some people leaving the market. We remain very focused on being a bitcoin miner. But we're also very focused on looking at where you have the convergence of inference and the needs of enterprises, especially around sovereign data. And we believe this is a unique area where we're positioned to be quite successful in the long term, and that's why we've been focusing our efforts in developing relationships with sovereigns, with governments, with energy companies in regions where we think there's going to be a huge amount of investment that we can take advantage of to help grow our business along those lines. while at the same time, it continues to grow our bitcoin mining business.

因此，你會看到一大批新人進入這個市場，同時也有一些人離開了這個市場。我們仍然非常專注於成為一名比特幣礦工。但我們也非常注重研究推理的整合點和企業的需求，特別是在主權資料方面。我們相信這是一個獨特的領域，從長遠來看，我們有能力取得巨大成功，因此，我們一直致力於與主權國家、政府、能源公司發展關係，我們認為這些地區的投資將會非常巨大，我們可以利用這些投資來幫助我們的業務沿著這些方向發展。同時，它將繼續成長我們的比特幣挖礦業務。

As we mentioned on the call, we have a pipeline of 3 gigawatts plus power, and we intend to continue to grow at a very fast rate while also growing our business around sovereign data.

正如我們在電話中提到的，我們擁有 3 千兆瓦以上的電力管道，我們打算繼續以非常快的速度成長，同時圍繞主權數據發展我們的業務。

That's very helpful. I guess, I'm going to drill down a little bit on the sovereign topic. You mentioned in your prepared remarks the potential for headquarters in Saudi Arabia as well as France and sort of mentioning that or holding the fact that location was important when it comes to inference. Does that suggest that you potentially will enter this business directly, or it seems like more likely you would do it through partnerships is what I'm guessing.

這非常有幫助。我想，我將深入探討主權議題。您在準備好的發言中提到了在沙烏地阿拉伯和法國設立總部的可能性，並提到或堅持位置在推理時很重要這一事實。這是否表明您可能會直接進入這個行業，或者我猜測您更有可能透過合作夥伴關係進入這個行業。

Exactly. The focus here is through partnerships, partnerships with energy companies. Some have people on this call may recall that four years ago at mining disrupt, I did a presentation that most people found a little startling which was I basically said that bitcoin miners will either have to become partners with energy companies or energy companies will take over their businesses. And I believe that unless you as a bitcoin miner own your own energy generation, you have to become a partner with the energy company, not a customer of the energy company. And so if you look at some of these regions, Europe Gulf region, for example, you have very top-down driven energy companies who are typically government-owned or government run or have a substantial percentage of ownership by government and you have to partner with the government and partner with the companies.

確切地。這裡的重點是透過合作關係，與能源公司的合作關係。參加這次電話會議的一些人可能還記得，四年前在 mining disrupt 大會上，我做了一個讓大多數人感到吃驚的演講，我基本上是說，比特幣礦工要么必須與能源公司合作，要么能源公司將接管他們的業務。我相信，除非你作為比特幣礦工擁有自己的能源生產，否則你必須成為能源公司的合作夥伴，而不是能源公司的客戶。因此，如果你看看這些地區，例如歐洲海灣地區，你會發現那裡有自上而下驅動的能源公司，這些公司通常為政府所有或政府經營，或者政府擁有相當大比例的所有權，你必須與政府合作，與公司合作。

And in these regions, there is a big demand for sovereign data and AI because the enterprises in those regions do not want to have their data in clouds that are either owned and operated by the US or the Chinese or people outside of their reaches. And so they want that data residing in their countries, within their borders in close proximity to their enterprises. And we believe that partnership of working with government and sovereign-controlled energy companies and operating data centers within their orders to provide them with sovereignty over data in the is a combination of factors that could make us very successful.

在這些地區，對主權資料和人工智慧的需求很大，因為這些地區的企業不希望將其資料儲存在由美國、中國或其他機構擁有和營運的雲端。因此，他們希望這些數據駐留在他們的國家、他們的境內、靠近他們的企業的地方。我們相信，與政府和主權控制的能源公司合作並在其命令範圍內運營數據中心並向其提供數據主權是多種因素的結合，可以使我們取得巨大成功。

Makes sense. Is this -- would you just be similar to the experience and the success you've had or it's a joint venture? Or are you envisioning a different type of partnership when you think about these kind of relationships?

有道理。這是—您是否有類似的經驗和成功，還是說這是合資企業？或者當您考慮這些類型的關係時，您是否設想了一種不同類型的合作關係？

That's great that you mentioned the UAE. So when we did that transaction, that was very focused on bitcoin mining and remains one of the most successful bitcoin mining data centers that we built from a perspective of uptime and operations. It's an amazing site is clearly still one of the leading immersion bitcoin mining data centers in the world.

很高興您提到了阿聯酋。因此，當我們進行那筆交易時，我們非常專注於比特幣挖礦，並且從正常運行時間和營運的角度來看，它仍然是我們建立的最成功的比特幣挖礦資料中心之一。這是一個令人驚嘆的網站，顯然仍然是世界上領先的浸入式比特幣挖掘資料中心之一。

That taught us a lot about working with sovereigns, especially in that region. It taught us what the right type of partnerships are and how to structure those partnerships. And what you'll see going forward is something a little bit different, where you see the energy companies being more involved in the deal. And also where you see us having a greater degree of control over the terms and the relationships.

這讓我們學到了很多與主權國家合作的知識，特別是在該地區。它告訴我們什麼是正確的合作關係類型以及如何建立這些合作關係。而未來你會看到的情況會有些不同，你會看到能源公司更投入交易。而且您也可以看到我們對條款和關係有更大的控制權。

Great. Okay. And I do remember that presentation you gave four years ago that was pretty pressing for sure and definitely was surprising to think that energy companies would be directly working in the bitcoin mining space, but that seems a lot more likely today for sure.

偉大的。好的。我確實記得你四年前做的那個演講，那次演講確實非常緊迫，而且想到能源公司會直接在比特幣挖礦領域工作確實令人驚訝，但今天看來這更有可能。

Speaking of bitcoin mining, I wanted to ask a question. When it comes to acquiring power assets. It seems like MARA's own path has slowed a little bit just in terms of growth. I feel like based on the conversations and the pipeline you disclosed just now, there's a lot going on. And is that because you're trying to balance your needs with your investment, or is it increasing competition from hyperscalers that is impacting the queue for power assets?

說到比特幣挖礦，我想問一個問題。當談到收購電力資產時。看起來，MARA 自身的發展路徑似乎已經從成長中放緩了一點。我覺得根據您剛才透露的談話和管道，有很多事情正在發生。這是因為您試圖平衡您的需求和投資，還是因為超大規模企業的競爭日益激烈，影響了電力資產的排隊？

Well, we wouldn't have a pipeline of 3 gigawatts, we were competing with hyperscalers, tooth and nail for power assets. We made a fairly concerted decision to focus on growing with the right types of assets versus just growing at any price.

好吧，我們不會有 3 千兆瓦的管道，我們正在與超大規模企業展開激烈競爭，爭奪電力資產。我們做出了一個相當一致的決定，專注於利用正確類型的資產來實現成長，而不是不惜一切代價地實現成長。

Growth at any price can be dangerous in a market where bitcoin price is running high and where hashrate is remaining relatively stable because of constraints of either capital or compute or capacity, you can afford to grow in network attached mode.

在比特幣價格高漲且由於資本、計算或容量的限製而哈希率保持相對穩定的市場中，任何價格的增長都可能是危險的，您可以承受在網絡附加模式下的增長。

And if you recall, we started as an asset-light company. The reason we were successful in growing to be the largest bitcoin miner in the world using an asset-light strategy was there were enough constraints in the market that you could grow most rapidly by controlling compute because there was ample capacity there was ample access to capital, the three Cs that constraint in our business.

如果你還記得的話，我們原本是一家輕資產公司。我們之所以能夠利用輕資產策略成功成長為全球最大的比特幣礦商，是因為市場上有足夠的限制，你可以透過控制運算來實現最快的成長，因為有足夠的容量和充足的資本管道，這三個C限制了我們的業務。

Today, it's different. Today, if you are looking at using; grid-attached energy at an average price of anywhere from $0.045 to $0.05 a kilowatt hour, you are forced to replace your machines every three years, which is a significant capital cost. And as you start looking at having in 2028 and another one after that in 2032, you really have to look at controlling your energy assets or being a partner with energy companies where they can contribute energy and you contribute compute. That's the only way companies will be successful in the long run in this business. And so we've been very focused on executing the strategy of partnerships and controlling energy assets.

如今，情況有所不同。如今，如果您考慮使用平均價格為每千瓦時 0.045 美元至 0.05 美元的併網能源，那麼您就必須每三年更換一次機器，這是一筆巨大的資本成本。當你開始考慮 2028 年和 2032 年再實現一個目標時，你真的必須考慮控制你的能源資產或與能源公司合作，他們可以貢獻能源，你貢獻運算能力。這是公司在該行業取得長期成功的唯一途徑。因此，我們一直非常注重執行合作夥伴策略和控制能源資產。

And yes, it takes a while to get that started, and we've spent a lot of time this year focused on getting that process started and initiated. And we've built the pipeline now. We've built the relationships and we're in the phase where we start to begin to execute. And I think this will feed our growth over the next two to three years quite significantly.

是的，這需要一段時間才能開始，今年我們花了很多時間專注於啟動和推進這項進程。現在我們已經建好了管道。我們已經建立了關係，並且正處於開始執行的階段。我認為這將極大地促進我們未來兩到三年的成長。

Excellent. And I don't want to get sort of breaking sort of undisclosed ground here, but is it safe to assume that maybe the majority of that 3-gigawatt pipeline is outside the United States?

出色的。我不想在這裡觸及未公開的領域，但是是否可以安全地假設這 3 千兆瓦管道的大部分都在美國境外？

That would be undisclosed. So I think you can reference what we've said before that by 2028, about 50% of our revenue would come from international, and we're still focused on that.

這將是未公開的。所以我想你可以參考我們之前所說的，到 2028 年，我們大約 50% 的收入將來自國際市場，我們仍然專注於此。

Perfect. We'll have to stay tuned. I wanted to ask one more question on the biomining business before moving on, which was actually maybe two more, which was I don't know where the industry stands from a hydro cooling perspective. It feels like it's relatively new technology for large-scale miners. What are your from the '23 from Bitmain or similar models and pivoting to hydro cooling?

完美的。我們必須繼續關注。在繼續之前，我想再問一個關於生物採礦業務的問題，實際上可能還有兩個問題，那就是我不知道從水冷角度來看該行業處於什麼位置。對於大型礦工來說，這似乎是一項相對較新的技術。您從 Bitmain 的 23 款產品或類似型號中挑選了哪些產品並轉向了水冷？

Yeah. I think early generations of Hydro cooling had lots of challenges, leaky pipes, large consumption of water, which is a no-no in many places and a lot of just glitches. I think Bitmain has most probably figured out how to do this more effectively now. I think the other difference is the form factor for the hydro has changed.

是的。我認為早期的水冷技術面臨許多挑戰，例如管道洩漏、耗水量大（這在很多地方都是不允許的）以及很多故障。我認為比特大陸現在很可能已經找到瞭如何更有效地做到這一點的方法。我認為另一個不同之處是水力發電的外形尺寸發生了變化。

They're now doing proper 2U rackmount devices, which means you can start using similar infrastructure for corn mining as AI, which as we've been talking all along, is what we view the future as being a mix of AI and bitcoin mining in the same data centers. We in UAE, for example, chose immersion technology because at the time hydro wasn't significantly developed in a way that was reliable to operate in those regions.

他們現在正在製造合適的 2U 機架式設備，這意味著您可以開始使用與 AI 類似的基礎設施進行玉米挖掘，正如我們一直在談論的那樣，我們認為未來是在同一個數據中心混合使用 AI 和比特幣挖掘。例如，我們在阿聯酋選擇了浸入式技術，因為當時水力發電尚未充分發展，無法在那些地區可靠地運作。

Today, I think you can go either way, you can continue to go immersion or hydro. I think what's going to be very interesting in the future and one of the things we've learned with our PIC technology is there is this very interesting middle ground around cold plate technology that potentially is the ideal transition, which is slightly different than liquid on chip, which is how the hydro works.

今天，我認為你可以選擇任何一種方式，你可以繼續浸泡或水力浸泡。我認為未來將會非常有趣，我們從 PIC 技術中學到的一件事就是，圍繞冷板技術存在一個非常有趣的中間地帶，這可能是理想的過渡，它與晶片上的液體（即水力發電的工作原理）略有不同。

So I think we have yet another evolution to go through in this market before the world moves to the need to go to full immersion on AI the heat densities in the next couple of generations, we'll start getting to a point where you're going to have to go to full inversion. But today, you can still make it with liquid on-chip and eventually cold plate technology there.

因此，我認為，在世界轉向完全沉浸於人工智慧之前，我們在這個市場上還有另一次演變要經歷，在接下來的幾代中，我們將開始達到必須完全反轉的地步。但今天，你仍然可以使用液體片上技術以及最終的冷板技術來製造它。

Okay. Makes sense. I would like to talk about the big mining in the quarter for a second. One of the things that analysts have to realize that these things could ebb and flow and as there is some randomness to bitcoin mining operations. And sometimes you have good months and bad months, and quarter in particular, the market share kind of bounced around quite a bit between April and May was fantastic, and then it came back down in June. Was there any sort of structural uptime or downtime or curtailment that impacted those numbers significantly, or is it just total randomness?

好的。有道理。我想談談本季的大型採礦業。分析師必須意識到的一件事是，這些事情可能會起伏不定，而且比特幣挖礦作業具有一定的隨機性。有時會有好月份，有時會有壞月份，特別是某個季度，市場佔有率在 4 月和 5 月之間出現了大幅波動，但 6 月又回落了。是否存在任何結構性的正常運作時間、停機時間或縮減對這些數字產生重大影響，還是完全是隨機的？

I think you can look at the year and look at seasonality, we have a large amount of our production in Texas. As you get into June, you start getting into warmer months and curtailment starts happening. There are also things like certain maintenance cycles and other things that can impact any given sight from time to time.

我認為你可以看看年份和季節性，我們的大量產品來自德克薩斯州。進入六月，氣溫開始變暖，限電現像也開始出現。某些維護週期和其他因素也會不時影響任何特定的景觀。

Definitely, May was an amazing month where we benefited from the randomness very well. But generally, we have found that when we look at -- to what extent look as it's called in our industry, impacts us. We have over quite a long period, had a minor degree of quite positive look. But that being said, as you get into the summer months, you just have to expect a greater percentage of curtailment if you're operating in states for that's a requirement, which it is in Texas.

毫無疑問，五月是一個令人驚嘆的月份，我們從隨機性中受益匪淺。但總的來說，我們發現，當我們觀察——在我們行業中所謂的「觀察」在多大程度上影響著我們。我們在相當長的一段時間內都抱持相當正面的看法。但話雖如此，隨著進入夏季，如果你在各州運營，你必須預料到會有更大比例的減產，因為這是一項要求，德克薩斯州就是如此。

Sure, it makes sense. Okay. So that as a big picture question. I'd love to get your current thoughts on -- you mentioned already in your prepared remarks was the bitcoin treasury strategy companies and their success and sort of this frothiness that we're seeing to be in with companies not only announced the bitcoin treasury strategy or other tokens and crypto assets are now be getting lots of investor attention.

當然，這是有道理的。好的。所以這是一個大問題。我很想聽聽您目前的想法——您在準備好的發言中已經提到了比特幣財務戰略公司及其成功，以及我們看到的這種泡沫，這些公司不僅宣布了比特幣財務戰略，其他代幣和加密資產現在也受到了大量投資者的關注。

I think there's certainly a narrative here that Marathon is different or MARA is different. So I'd love to get your current thoughts on the bitcoin treasury and how we should see that difference play out in market values over time between MARA and some of the competitors?

我認為這裡面肯定有一個說法，就是馬拉松是不同的，或者 MARA 是不同的。所以我很想了解您目前對比特幣金庫的看法，以及我們應該如何看待 MARA 和一些競爭對手之間的市場價值差異？

I'm not sure who to attribute this quote to, but somebody at a recent event that I was at basically said, bitcoin treasury companies are the new ICOs if you go back to kind of 2017. As you said, bitcoin treasury companies, you can basically say you're going to put whatever coin it is into a treasury company raise money for it, and get investors -- there's even one for BNB coin that was announced recently.

我不確定這句話出自誰之口，但在我最近參加的活動中，有人說，如果追溯到 2017 年，比特幣財務公司就是新的 ICO。正如你所說，比特幣財務公司，你基本上可以說你將把任何一種貨幣放入財務公司，為其籌集資金，並獲得投資者——最近甚至宣布了針對 BNB 貨幣的財務公司。

So I think there's a lot of money going at these things. I think a number of analysts and reporters have written about the fact that strategy has done an amazing job of creating this space. Kudos to Michael and his team for what they've done there. But any advantage in any market starts disappearing when you have lots of companies going after it.

所以我認為這些事情需要投入大量資金。我認為許多分析師和記者都曾撰文指出，策略在創造這一領域方面發揮了驚人的作用。向邁克爾和他的團隊所做的一切表示敬意。但當有大量公司爭奪某個市場時，該市場的優勢就會開始消失。

I think it was earlier this week, somebody published $82 billion has been raised for bitcoin treasury companies that are going to hit the market or -- sorry, crypto treasury companies, bit large, across all the different coins. And they can't all be successful. And what happens to those companies that are holding coins when their mNAV goes to one or worst case, like what happened to Grayscale during a period the mNAV goes negative. They likely will have to sell those coins.

我想是本週早些時候，有人發布了即將進入市場的比特幣財務公司籌集了 820 億美元的消息，或者——抱歉，是加密貨幣財務公司，規模有點大，涵蓋所有不同的貨幣。但他們不可能都成功。當 mNAV 變成負值時，那些持有代幣的公司會發生什麼情況，或者出現最壞的情況，就像 Grayscale 在 mNAV 變成負值期間發生的情況一樣。他們很可能不得不出售這些硬幣。

So my concern and my -- I think the concern of many people regarding the frothiness in the market today is, you have a lot of people buying bitcoin with other people's money. And if bitcoin, especially for the newer treasury companies sees a decline they may be challenged and people may sell them the stock to get their money out.

因此，我的擔心——我認為很多人對當今市場泡沫的擔憂是，很多人用別人的錢購買比特幣。如果比特幣（尤其是對於較新的財務公司而言）出現下跌，他們可能會面臨挑戰，人們可能會出售股票以撤出資金。

Realize that bitcoin treasury companies are not like an ETF, what people have to do to try and save the money is sell the stock in those companies. And I think with as many companies doing this, there are a certain percentage of them will likely fail and that will negatively impact the price of bitcoin. We've had wallets from 2011, I think this wallet that Galaxy recently traded, $9 billion for 80,000 coins I think it was.

要知道，比特幣財務公司不像 ETF，人們要省錢就必須賣出這些公司的股票。我認為，如果許多公司都這樣做，那麼其中一定比例的公司可能會失敗，這將對比特幣的價格產生負面影響。我們從 2011 年就有錢包了，我認為 Galaxy 最近交易的這個錢包，80,000 個硬幣價值 90 億美元。

People are selling at the peak when the whales that have been holding are selling, it tells you something. Historically, whales always sell leading into the peak. They sell into the top in the market. And every bitcoin, I mean 9-point-something percent of all bitcoin are in profit today. And the people who are buying and looking to build treasury companies are buying at the absolute top of the market.

當持倉量最大的鯨魚開始拋售時，其他人也在高峰時拋售，這說明了一些問題。從歷史上看，鯨魚總是在價格達到頂峰時拋售。他們在市場上賣得最高價。每一個比特幣，我的意思是今天所有比特幣的 9.5% 都是盈利的。而那些購買和尋求建立財務公司的人們是在市場的絕對頂端購買的。

And at some point, demand will waiver. And you have to remember that bitcoin from an institutional perspective still is a risk asset. It typically while follows M2 on the asset side, liquidity, it also correlates to inversely to the dollar. And the equity markets, it's quite correlated at times. And so I think if we see a deterioration in the economy, if we see deterioration in the equity markets and we start seeing an improvement in the dollar, you may have an environment where bitcoin could see a drop. And I'm not saying it's going to drop 80%, but it could drop 20%, 30%, great buying opportunity for many.

到了某個時候，需求就會減少。而且你必須記住，從機構角度來看，比特幣仍然是一種風險資產。它通常在資產方面跟隨M2（流動性），同時也與美元成反比。有時，股票市場與股票市場的關聯性相當大。因此我認為，如果我們看到經濟惡化，如果我們看到股票市場惡化，並且我們開始看到美元改善，那麼比特幣可能會下跌。我並不是說它會下跌 80%，但它可能會下跌 20%、30%，這對許多人來說都是絕佳的買入機會。

But you've, again, got a lot of people who have been holding on for the right time to sell, and if you see any momentum to the downside, you may see a lot of selling which will just accelerate things. So I think you have to be prudent, and it's an important -- these treasury companies are, again, a bit like ICOs. And I think that too much of a good thing ruins the returns for everybody. So I would expect you'd start seeing the mNAV on these things to eventually just hit one. And at that point, you're better off holding spot.

但是，再次，你會發現很多人一直在等待合適的時機出售，如果你看到任何下行勢頭，你可能會看到大量的拋售，這只會加速事情的發展。所以我認為你必須謹慎，這一點很重要——這些財務公司有點像 ICO。我認為，好事太多會毀掉每個人的回報。因此我希望您能開始看到這些東西的 mNAV 最終達到一個。此時，你最好守住位置。

Yes, that makes sense. How do you -- how do you view the MARA stack differently? I mean it's gotten very large now. It's over 50,000 coin, over -- well over $5 billion. And I think it's not really sort of tagged for growth purposes. I think it's been pretty clear this is a longer-term investment. But do you foresee sort of building forever, or is there a point where you would think about potentially selling some of your bitcoin, just given how large it's becoming relative to your market cap?

是的，這很有道理。您如何—您如何以不同的方式看待 MARA 堆疊？我的意思是它現在已經變得非常大了。總數超過 5 萬枚硬幣，價值遠超 50 億美元。我認為它實際上並不是為成長目的而標記的。我認為很明顯這是一項長期投資。但是，您是否預見到這種永遠的建設，或者是否存在一個點，您會考慮出售部分比特幣，因為它相對於您的市值變得有多大？

I think there's -- unlike some treasury companies, there's always a point at which we would sell some bitcoin. There may be a point where, for example, the appreciation of Bitcoin and the volatility of bitcoin decreases to the point where it operates more like gold, for example, in which case the cost of us for the company of holding bitcoin can be such that our average weight of capital to run the business by leveraging equity would become too prohibitive, and it would make sense for us to, like we did in 2023, sell bitcoin from production to pay for operating expenses.

我認為——與一些財務公司不同，我們總是會在某個時候出售一些比特幣。可能存在這樣一個點，例如，比特幣的升值和比特幣的波動性降低到它的運作更像黃金的程度，在這種情況下，我們公司持有比特幣的成本可能會如此之高，以至於我們通過利用股權來運營業務的平均資本權重變得過於高昂，而我們像 2023 年那樣，出售生產的比特幣來支付運營費用是有意義的。

That's always an option. We are a bitcoin company. We believe in bitcoin for the long term. And as long as bitcoin continues to perform, we have to do what's right for our shareholders, which as fiduciaries is leveraged bitcoin while it continues to perform and if need be select.

這始終是一個選擇。我們是一家比特幣公司。我們相信比特幣的長期前景。只要比特幣繼續表現良好，我們就必須為我們的股東做正確的事情，作為受託人，我們在比特幣繼續表現良好時對其進行槓桿操作，並在必要時進行選擇。

Makes sense. And there was some good commentary, I think it was more, some on side about actively managing the bitcoin treasury and yield strategies, Two Prime. Maybe give us an update on the thinking around Two Prime and how large -- how much of your bitcoin stack are you willing to try to monetize? And does the active management include hedging strategies? And I know there was a collar strategy in the past. Is that something that's on the table if you think that it's going a little extended, or are you still more focused on yield than actual hedging?

有道理。還有一些很好的評論，我認為更多的是，一些關於積極管理比特幣財務和收益策略的評論，Two Prime。也許可以向我們介紹一下關於 Two Prime 的想法以及您願意嘗試將多少比特幣貨幣化？主動管理是否包含對沖策略？我知道過去曾有領圈策略。如果您認為情況會有所延長，那麼您是否會考慮這一點？或者您仍然更關注收益率而不是實際對沖？

I'll throw that to Salman.

我會把它丟給薩爾曼。

Chris, when you think about our bitcoin treasury, as you mentioned, 50,000 stack coin sitting on our balance sheet, we are looking at not just capital appreciation from a long-term perspective, as a treasury asset, but also we want to create a yield and earn cash flows from that bitcoin that's sitting on our balance sheet while it continues to appreciate for a longer duration of time.

克里斯，當你想到我們的比特幣金庫時，正如你提到的，我們的資產負債表上有 50,000 枚比特幣，我們不僅從長期角度看待資本增值，將其作為金庫資產，而且我們還希望創造收益並從我們資產負債表上的比特幣中賺取現金流，同時讓它在較長時間內繼續升值。

So it's a two-pronged approach and it's a financial decision. As Fred mentioned, we are a bitcoin mining company and we produce bitcoin on a day-to-day basis unlike treasury companies who will have to go and buy bitcoin from the open market. We don't have to do that as we alluded to our -- we can produce it cheaper than going out and buying bitcoin from the open market.

因此，這是一個雙管齊下的方法，也是一個財務決策。正如佛瑞德所提到的，我們是一家比特幣挖礦公司，我們每天都在生產比特幣，而不是像財務公司那樣必須去公開市場購買比特幣。正如我們所提到的，我們不必這樣做——我們可以以比從公開市場購買比特幣更低的成本來生產它。

Having said that, this is -- this industry is much newer than other industries. This is just the beginning. And we have tested multiple investment strategies over the last two years by testing the market, testing different partners. And placing a bitcoin with parties that we trust, and we have verified their credibility from a delivery standpoint. And as a result of that evolution, now we have about a little bit shy of one-third of our bitcoin that is activated as we call it, in the active bitcoin asset management strategy.

話雖如此，這個行業比其他行業要新得多。這只是個開始。過去兩年，我們透過測試市場、測試不同的合作夥伴，檢視了多種投資策略。我們將比特幣交給我們信任的各方，並且我們已經從交付的角度驗證了他們的可信度。由於這種演變，現在我們在主動比特幣資產管理策略中啟動了大約三分之一的比特幣。

With that, it includes, I would say, hedging is -- when you say hedging, typically, people think hedge means that we're trying to protect from the price risk. That's not the objective. The objective is to create cash flows, so that could have covered calls, that could have multiple trading strategies where we, either in-house or through our investment and partnership with Two Prime, we go out and we squeeze value out of the bitcoin.

有了它，我想說，對沖就是——當你說對沖時，通常人們認為對沖意味著我們試圖防範價格風險。這不是目的。我們的目標是創造現金流，這樣就可以有備兌看漲期權，可以有多種交易策略，我們可以透過內部交易或與 Two Prime 的投資和合作，從比特幣中榨取價值。

As I've mentioned in the prepared remarks, within a very short period of 1.5 months from 500 bitcoin, we were able to produce 4 bitcoin. And look, its infancy stage, newer industry, but we're testing these different strategies successfully. And the plan would be as we test the waters, we continue to expand from here step-by-step basis while keeping in mind the fiduciary responsibility that we have with the stack on our balance sheet that our stockholders own by being a stockholder in this company.

正如我在準備好的發言中提到的，從 500 比特幣到現在，我們在短短 1.5 個月內就生產了 4 比特幣。看看吧，它還處於起步階段，是一個較新的行業，但我們正在成功地測試這些不同的策略。我們的計畫是，在試水的同時，我們會繼續逐步擴大規模，同時牢記身為本公司股東，我們對資產負債表上的資產負有信託責任。

Excellent. That's fantastic Salman. Thank you. I want to go back to sort of the higher bigger picture stuff and think about diversification beyond bitcoin mining. I think that was a push at one time to try to diversify the top line and be less reliant on the ebbs and flows of the mining business. Where do you stand today on diversifying the business? And is bitcoin treasury yield strategy as part of that diversification?

出色的。太棒了，薩爾曼。謝謝。我想回到更高更宏觀的層面，思考比特幣挖礦以外的多樣化。我認為這曾經是為了嘗試實現收入多元化，減少對採礦業務起伏的依賴。目前您在業務多角化方面進展如何？比特幣公債殖利率策略是否是多元化策略的一部分？

I mean, treasury yield is a way to generate yield off of an asset that we have. It's kind of like you think of old money, what does old money do? They buy real estate and then they live off the yield of their real estate. If we have enough bitcoin, and can generate a yield off of it that it covers our a good portion of our operating expenses, and that takes pressure off of the other businesses so that we can continue to invest in diversifying revenue. So we are focused on investing significantly in growing our business around sovereign data and inference AI.

我的意思是，國債殖利率是我們利用我們所擁有的資產產生收益的一種方式。這有點像您對舊錢的看法，舊錢有什麼作用？他們購買房地產，然後靠房地產收益過活。如果我們擁有足夠的比特幣，並能從中獲得收益，從而涵蓋我們很大一部分營運費用，並減輕其他業務的壓力，這樣我們就可以繼續投資於多元化收入。因此，我們專注於大力投資主權數據和推理人工智慧領域的業務發展。

As we come to a point where we're launching things and announcing things, it will become quite clear. But for the moment, I'll just leave it to say that we're very focused on building the next leg of MARA. So that for the future, we can leverage these great assets that we have, continue to grow them and gain synergies from them as we also add additional revenue streams that let us leverage some of the benefits of those assets going forward. well beyond the period we're having reduced bitcoin rewards to much lower levels.

當我們開始推出和宣布某件事時，一切都會變得非常清晰。但目前，我只想說，我們非常專注於建立 MARA 的下一個階段。因此，在未來，我們可以利用我們擁有的這些優質資產，繼續發展它們並從中獲得協同效應，同時我們也增加了額外的收入來源，讓我們能夠利用這些資產的一些優勢向前發展。遠遠超出了我們將比特幣獎勵降低到較低水平的時期。

I'd imagine that would include sort of along with your international expansion goals as well as you to expand beyond the core US mining business.

我想這將包括您的國際擴張目標以及超越美國核心採礦業務的擴張目標。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，絕對是如此。

Okay. One last quick one for Salman.

好的。最後再向薩爾曼簡單說幾句。

Just to add to that, Chris. The diversification of revenues. There are two ways of unlocking that: one is diversification of revenues; and the other way is to reduce costs. Just a quick reminder for our listeners today that MARA started with asset-light strategy years ago, and we grew very quickly over the years. And last year, we pivoted towards asset-heavy strategy, where we exited the year with 70% owned and operated. The result of that was that we reduced our electricity cost per coin in our own mining operations to one of the lowest in the sector.

我再補充一點，克里斯。收入多元化。解決這個問題的方法有兩個：一是實現收入多元化；二是降低成本。今天我們想快速提醒聽眾，MARA 多年前就開始採用輕資產策略，這些年來我們發展非常迅速。去年，我們轉向重資產策略，年底時我們的自有和經營資產佔比達到 70%。這樣做的結果是，我們將自己採礦業務中每枚硬幣的電力成本降低到了業內最低水平之一。

Now, we still have a portion of our business that is tied to asset-light strategy from our historical contracts and there's opportunity to reduce costs over time as those contracts expire. And as Fred had alluded to last time, and we have talked about low-cost strategies, the diversification doesn't stop there. We also went out and bought a wind farm that we just provided update on our prepared remarks a few moments ago. Those wind farms, just to pause on that or double click on it.

現在，我們的部分業務仍然與歷史合約中的輕資產策略相關，隨著這些合約到期，我們有機會隨著時間的推移降低成本。正如弗雷德上次提到的，我們也討論過低成本策略，多樣化不止於此。我們還出去購買了一個風力發電場，我們剛剛在幾分鐘前就我們準備好的發言提供了最新消息。那些風力發電場，只需暫停或雙擊它即可。

In a traditional bitcoin mining operation, the grid connected, compare that to the wind farm intermittent power, but just consumes power in the electricity is close to low-cost electricity. Marginal cost is almost zero.

在傳統的比特幣挖礦過程中，電網接入，相較於風力發電場的間歇性電力，只是消耗的電力接近低成本電力。邊際成本幾乎為零。

At that point in time, you're all-in cash operating cost of a traditional bitcoin miner versus a wind farm is about 75% to 85% lower than the traditional decline mining operations. So when we talk about diversification, it's not just diversification of revenues, but also the sources of power and the way we generate bitcoin. And in future, it could be depending on what is the best use of the electronics.

此時，傳統比特幣礦工與風力發電場的全現金營運成本比傳統遞減挖礦營運低約 75% 至 85%。因此，當我們談論多樣化時，它不僅僅是收入的多樣化，還包括力量來源和我們產生比特幣的方式的多樣化。而在未來，這可能取決於電子產品的最佳用途。

So I wanted to highlight that important fact that, that diversification continues to happen at MARA, and our shareholders will get to see those benefits over a longer duration of time, as we are the only large-scale miner where we have opportunity to further reduce cost with these third-party contracts expiring over the years.

因此，我想強調一個重要的事實，即 MARA 的多元化經營仍在繼續，我們的股東將在更長的時間內看到這些好處，因為我們是唯一一家有機會隨著這些第三方合約逐年到期而進一步降低成本的大型礦業公司。

Yes, that's a great point. The improvement in cost has been phenomenal and really helped improve the gross margins and for the leadership position from a profitability standpoint. The quick question I had a follow-up, Salman, was from a CapEx perspective. How much of the 75 exahash year-end target has been already funded as of this quarter?

是的，這是一個很好的觀點。成本的改善是驚人的，並且確實有助於提高毛利率，並從獲利角度鞏固領導地位。薩爾曼，我要跟進的快速問題是從資本支出的角度出發的。截至本季度，75 exahash 的年終目標已經實現了多少？

Yes. So we -- as we mentioned earlier, almost all of it is funded except for $150 million in minor capital there will be additional electron related capital that may be added to it to get to the 75 exahash, but we are -- our eyes are laser-focused to the 75 exahash as we had publicly disclosed a few weeks ago. and we're excited about that.

是的。因此，正如我們之前提到的，除了 1.5 億美元的小額資本外，幾乎所有資金都已到位，可能會添加額外的電子相關資本以達到 75 exahash，但我們——我們的目光聚焦於 75 exahash，正如我們幾週前公開披露的那樣。我們對此感到興奮。

Great. Well, again, thank you so much for all the time and the answers here, pretty exciting stuff and look forward to hearing the future announcements on your growth plans. Thanks so much. I'll turn it back over to Rob.

偉大的。好吧，再次感謝您一直以來的回答，這些回答非常令人興奮，我期待聽到您未來關於成長計畫的公告。非常感謝。我會把它交還給 Rob。

Thanks, Chris. We're now going to take just a few questions from our retail shareholders. And the first one I'm going to address to you, Salman, and it's one that we get asked quite often. Can you talk a little bit more about MARA's cost to mine per bitcoin?

謝謝，克里斯。我們現在將回答散戶股東的幾個問題。我要向您提出的第一個問題是薩爾曼，這也是我們經常被問到的問題。能否再多談談 MARA 每枚比特幣的開採成本？

That's a very important question. And I want to address point-blank, it's -- when you think about our financials, you have to think about the evolution of the company. As I had alluded to earlier, we were asset-light strategy company. We grew very quickly but as a result of that, our costs were higher compared to some of the other peer group companies.

這是一個非常重要的問題。我想直截了當地說，當你考慮我們的財務狀況時，你必須考慮公司的發展。正如我之前提到的，我們是一家輕資產策略公司。我們發展得非常快，但因此，我們的成本與其他一些同行公司相比較高。

We -- as a strategic decision last year made the decision to move towards asset-heavy strategy, our vertically integrated model where we own and operate our own sites. We paid cents to the dollar to acquire those sites compared to the market price and also the build multiple less than 50% the build multiple. And now we're operating those sites. As a result of that, our electricity cost per coin is one of the lowest in the sector.

作為去年的一項策略決策，我們決定轉向重資產策略，即我們擁有並經營自己的站點的垂直整合模式。與市場價格相比，我們以極低的價格收購了這些地塊，建造倍數不到 50%。現在我們正在經營這些網站。因此，我們的每枚硬幣的電力成本是業內最低的之一。

And when you think about bitcoin mining and MARA, bitcoin mining is in our DNA, but we are also focused on other initiatives as Fred has alluded to. So we also own and operate our mining pool. We have our own firmware. We also are investing in R&D that is the future of the business and diversification of the revenues that Fred mentioned around AI. And those costs, it's not fair to compare the total cost of the company on a coin basis because that cost is not attributable to the coin.

當你想到比特幣挖礦和 MARA 時，比特幣挖礦已經融入我們的 DNA，但正如 Fred 所提到的，我們也專注於其他舉措。因此我們也擁有並經營我們的採礦池。我們有自己的韌體。我們也正在投資研發，這是弗雷德提到的有關人工智慧的業務未來和收入多元化的重點。而這些成本，以硬幣為基礎來比較公司的總成本是不公平的，因為這些成本不歸因於硬幣。

So if I have to do the math and look at our asset-light and asset-heavy, combination of cost of revenue, cash costs and look at our bitcoin produce quarter over quarter, it hovers around $50,000 per coin and that is still more than 50% cheaper than buying in the open market.

因此，如果我必須進行計算並查看我們的輕資產和重資產、收入成本和現金成本的組合，並查看我們比特幣的季度環比產量，它徘徊在每枚硬幣 50,000 美元左右，但這仍然比在公開市場上購買便宜 50% 以上。

Now, with time, as I had said earlier, we expect these costs to further improve as our third-party mining operations that are more expensive than owned and operated mining operations will expire over a period of time. And as we exit those contracts and continue to build on the low-cost strategy with the wind farms and the and NGON, which we plan to expand further the oil and gas operations, where we consume natural gas that was being emitted into the air and we reduce the harmful gases by consuming that and put those electrons to use, that those costs are cents to the dollar compared to a traditional mining operations.

現在，隨著時間的推移，正如我之前所說，我們預計這些成本將進一步改善，因為我們的第三方採礦業務比自有和經營的採礦業務更昂貴，並且在一段時間內到期。當我們退出這些合約並繼續與風力發電場和非政府組織 (NGON) 合作實施低成本戰略時，我們計劃進一步擴大石油和天然氣業務，我們消耗排放到空氣中的天然氣，並透過消耗天然氣來減少有害氣體，並利用這些電子，與傳統的採礦作業相比，這些成本只是微不足道的。

And with a combination of those things, our focus -- our expectation would be that over time, our costs are going to continue to be going down from here as we expand.

綜合考慮這些因素，我們的重點——我們的預期是，隨著時間的推移，隨著我們的擴張，我們的成本將繼續下降。

Great. And then the second question is for Fred. How will the signing of the GENIUS Act affect MARA's path to bitcoin mining?

偉大的。第二個問題是問弗雷德的。GENIUS法案的簽署將如何影響MARA的比特幣挖礦之路？

So what the GENIUS Act does is essentially opens the floodgates to stablecoins being integrated with the TradFi system. For example, today, we saw Circle announced that Fiserv and FIS are going to integrate Circle into their payment system and you're seeing the credit card companies developing stablecoins. You're seeing banks developing stablecoins.

因此，GENIUS 法案的作用實際上是為穩定幣與 TradFi 系統的整合打開了閘門。例如，今天，我們看到 Circle 宣布 Fiserv 和 FIS 將把 Circle 整合到他們的支付系統中，並且你會看到信用卡公司正在開發穩定幣。您會看到銀行正在開發穩定幣。

What happens when you have stablecoins is, you now have liquidity that can flow 24/7, 365. For people today wanting to buy bitcoin, they have to move money from a bank account on to an exchange during banking hours, which means the predominant volume of bitcoin that trades typically happens during banking hours, 9 to 5.

當你擁有穩定幣時，你就擁有了可以 24/7、365 天不間斷流動的流動性。對於現在想要購買比特幣的人來說，他們必須在銀行營業時間將錢從銀行帳戶轉移到交易所，這意味著比特幣交易的主要量通常發生在銀行營業時間，即從早上 9 點到下午 5 點。

With stablecoins, people can hold value in a digital currency that's the equivalent of a dollar. So it doesn't have the volatility of something like bitcoin, for example. And they can move on a moment's notice, transfer to an exchange and trade right away. What that does is likely creates a greater incentive for people to trade 24/7.

有了穩定幣，人們就可以持有相當於美元的數位貨幣價值。因此它不具備比特幣之類的波動性。他們可以隨時採取行動，轉移到交易所並立即進行交易。這可能會為人們全天候交易帶來更大的誘因。

Now, there are many traders who take advantage of the lower volumes of trading that happens during nighttime cycles depending on the market you're in because there's lower volume, which means that if you have -- if you're placing orders at different price points, you can potentially move the market a little easier.

現在，有許多交易者利用夜間週期交易量較低的機會，具體取決於您所在的市場，因為夜間交易量較低，這意味著如果您以不同的價格點下訂單，您可能會更輕鬆地推動市場走勢。

But with stablecoins, I think what's going to happen is more liquidity will flow into bitcoin. You've also seen things like Ray Dalio, now say that you should have 15% of your assets in gold and bitcoin.

但有了穩定幣，我認為將會有更多的流動性流入比特幣。你也看到像 Ray Dalio 這樣的人，他現在說你應該將 15% 的資產投資在黃金和比特幣上。

So I think with stablecoins, essentially, liquidity will flow. And when liquidity flows, people will move that liquidity into whatever asset they think is the best performing place to hold it. So stablecoins will increase the ability for people and especially institutions to potentially allocate greater amounts of capital to things like bitcoin. And so I think it only bodes well.

因此我認為，有了穩定幣，流動性本質上就會流動起來。當流動性流動時，人們會將流動性轉移到他們認為表現最佳的資產。因此，穩定幣將增強人們，特別是機構向比特幣等資產配置更多資本的能力。所以我認為這只是個好兆頭。

Terrific. Well, that's all the time we have for today. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. If you have questions that were not answered during today's call, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations team at ir@mara.com. Thanks very much, and enjoy the rest of the day.

了不起。好的，今天的時間就到這裡了。感謝大家加入我們。如果您在今天的電話會議中有任何疑問，請隨時聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊：ir@mara.com。非常感謝，祝您今天愉快！

Thank you. That does conclude today's teleconference and webcast. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day. We thank you for your participation today.

謝謝。今天的電話會議和網路直播到此結束。此時您可以斷開線路，享受美好的一天。我們感謝您今天的參與。