MARA Holdings Inc (MARA) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience. Please. Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to MARA's Holdings quarter-one 2025 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的耐心等待。請。女士、先生們，大家好，歡迎參加 MARA 控股 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）

At this time, it is my pleasure to turn the floor over to your host, Robert Samuels, VP of Investor Relations. Sir, the floor is yours.

現在，我很高興將發言權交給主持人、投資者關係副總裁羅伯特·塞繆爾斯 (Robert Samuels)。先生，請您發言。

Thank you, operator. Good afternoon, and welcome to Mara's first-quarter 2025 earnings call. Thank you for joining us today. With me on today's call are our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Fred Thiel, and our Chief Financial Officer, Saul Manon. Today's call includes forward-looking statements, including those about our growth plans, liquidity and financial performance.

謝謝您，接線生。下午好，歡迎參加 Mara 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。感謝您今天加入我們。參加今天電話會議的還有我們的董事長兼執行長 Fred Thiel 和財務長 Saul Manon。今天的電話會議包括前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們的成長計劃、流動性和財務業績的陳述。

These involve risks and uncertainties, and actual results may differ materially. We disclaim any obligation to update these statements, except as required by law. For more details, see the Risk Factors section of our latest 10-K and other SEC filings. We'll also reference non-GAAP financial measures like adjusted EBITDA and return on capital employed, which we believe are important indicators of Mar's operating performance because they exclude certain items that we do not believe directly reflect our core operations.

這些涉及風險和不確定性，實際結果可能存在重大差異。除非法律要求，我們不承擔更新這些聲明的任何義務。如欲了解更多詳情，請參閱我們最新的 10-K 報告和其他 SEC 文件中的風險因素部分。我們也將參考非 GAAP 財務指標，例如調整後的 EBITDA 和資本使用回報率，我們認為這些指標是 Mar 經營績效的重要指標，因為它們排除了我們認為不直接反映我們核心業務的某些項目。

Please see our earnings release for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures. We hope you've had the chance to read our shareholder letter and look forward to your feedback. We'll begin with some prepared remarks from Fred and Salman -- after their comments, we are going to be conducting an analyst interview with management.

請參閱我們的收益報告，以了解與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對帳情況。我們希望您有機會閱讀我們的股東信並期待您的回饋。我們將從弗雷德和薩爾曼準備好的一些發言開始——在他們發言之後，我們將對管理層進行分析師採訪。

Today's session will be conducted by Stephen Glagola, an analyst at Jones Trading.

今天的會議將由 Jones Trading 的分析師 Stephen Glagola 主持。

With that out of the way, I'm going to turn the call over to Fred to kick things off. Fred?

解決了這個問題之後，我將把電話轉給弗雷德來開始演講。弗雷德？

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for joining us. Despite a volatile start to the year, with global markets pulling back much of the momentum they gained ahead of President Trump's inauguration, Bitcoin has shown remarkable resilience. At MARA, we believe Bitcoin is increasingly positioned as a macro hedge, much like gold offering protection in uncertain environments.

謝謝。大家下午好，感謝大家的參與。儘管今年年初形勢動盪，全球市場回吐了川普總統就職典禮前的大部分漲勢，但比特幣仍表現出了驚人的韌性。在 MARA，我們相信比特幣越來越多地被定位為一種宏觀對沖工具，就像黃金在不確定的環境中提供保護一樣。

Our stock tends to move with the overall mood of the market, especially when it comes to how investors feel about Bitcoin. In risk-off environments, our stock often trades down with the rest of the sector, even when our fundamentals remain solid. This correlation is largely tied to Bitcoin's price and broad sentiment towards miners. We believe the market is fully recognizing the strength of our core mining business, one of the largest in the sector.

我們的股票往往會隨著市場的整體情緒而波動，尤其是投資者對比特幣的看法。在避險環境中，即使我們的基本面依然穩固，我們的股價也常常與同行業其他股票一起下跌。這種相關性很大程度上與比特幣的價格以及對礦工的普遍情緒有關。我們相信市場充分認可我們核心採礦業務的實力，它是該行業最大的業務之一。

Meanwhile, some of our peers with smaller operations and little to no Bitcoin holdings are being assigned greater value, which doesn't reflect the full picture. Some of our competitors have publicly announced plans to limit mining growth. or pivot towards hosting and AI GPU operations, while others are expanding by staying greatly attached, investing in new machines, making them less capital efficient.

同時，我們的一些業務規模較小、持有比特幣很少或根本沒有的同行卻被賦予了更高的價值，但這並不能反映出全貌。我們的一些競爭對手已經公開宣布了限制採礦成長的計畫。或者轉向託管和 AI GPU 運營，而其他公司則透過保持高度依賴、投資新機器來擴張，從而降低其資本效率。

Meanwhile, we're focused on delivering long-term, low-cost energy solutions that outlast market cycles. We're doing this by transforming MARA into a vertically integrated digital energy and infrastructure company. This model gives us tighter operational control, improved cost effectiveness and strengthens our vision -- sorry, strengthens our resilience against broader economic shifts. To achieve this transformation, we're focused on 2 key priorities: strategic growth with low-cost energy and efficient capital deployment and advancing research and development of digital energy technologies.

同時，我們專注於提供超越市場週期的長期、低成本的能源解決方案。我們透過將 MARA 轉變為垂直整合的數位能源和基礎設施公司來實現這一目標。這種模式使我們的營運控制更加嚴格，成本效益更高，並強化了我們的願景——抱歉，是增強了我們對更廣泛的經濟變化的適應能力。為了實現這一轉變，我們專注於兩個關鍵優先事項：低成本能源和高效資本部署的策略成長以及推動數位能源技術的研發。

In 2021, we predicted a paradigm shift in our industry where power producers and miners would converge to utilize an excess energy, especially during periods of low demand, thereby stabilizing the grid and maximizing profits. We've now seen that vision begin to take hold with the power industry acknowledging the benefits of Bitcoin mining as a flexible low.

2021 年，我們預測我們的產業將發生範式轉變，即電力生產商和礦工將聯合起來利用多餘的能源，尤其是在需求低迷時期，從而穩定電網並實現利潤最大化。現在，我們看到這個願景開始落地生根，電力產業意識到比特幣挖礦作為一種靈活低位技術的優勢。

To deliver on this vision, we are in discussions with governments and global energy corporations in the US, Europe, and the Middle East, which could result in substantially lower energy costs and greater CapEx efficiency. Chasing exahash targets at grid attached prices invites short-term thinking, and we're focused on long-term partnerships to achieve and maintain a low-cost energy strategy.

為了實現這個願景，我們正在與美國、歐洲和中東的政府和全球能源公司進行討論，這可能會大幅降低能源成本並提高資本支出效率。以電網附加價格追求 Exahash 目標會導致短期思維，而我們專注於長期合作夥伴關係，以實現和維持低成本能源策略。

In Q1, MARA delivered strong operational metrics. Our purchased energy cost per Bitcoin was $35,728. Our daily cost per petahash improved 25% year-over-year. And at the start of this quarter, we completed construction at our fully owned 200-megawatt data center in Ohio with 100 megawatts now online and over 12,000 S21 Pro liners installed.

在第一季度，MARA 取得了強勁的營運指標。我們購買每比特幣的能源成本為 35,728 美元。我們每 Petahash 的每日成本比去年同期改善了 25%。本季度初，我們在俄亥俄州全資擁有的 200 兆瓦資料中心竣工，目前已投入使用 100 兆瓦電力，並安裝了超過 12,000 個 S21 Pro 襯墊。

In April, we fully energized 25 megawatts of gas to power operations in North Dakota and Texas, monetizing excess gas and mitigating methane emissions for the producers. And we are now in the process of building out our 114-megawatt wind farm site in Texas, giving us behind the meter low-cost power to extend the life of legacy hardware that otherwise would have been retired. We plan to be fully operational at that site in the second half of this year.

今年 4 月，我們全面啟用 25 兆瓦的天然氣為北達科他州和德州的發電廠供電，將過剩天然氣貨幣化，並減少生產商的甲烷排放。目前，我們正在德州建造 114 兆瓦的風力發電場，為我們提供低成本的電錶後電力，以延長原本要退役的舊硬體的使用壽命。我們計劃在今年下半年全面投入該站點的運作。

Through owning infrastructure, self-generating power, extending asset longevity and managing costs, we are driving capital and operational proficiency across our business. Regarding our second key priority, MARA is investing in and developing digital energy technologies, which can both improve the efficiency of our operations and diversify our revenue streams.

透過擁有基礎設施、自發電、延長資產壽命和管理成本，我們正在推動整個業務的資本和營運效率。關於我們的第二個重點，MARA 正在投資和開發數位能源技術，這不僅可以提高我們的營運效率，又可以使我們的收入來源多樣化。

As many of you are aware, we're a founding investor in (inaudible) a US-based ASIC manufacturer whose chips are more power efficient than current market offerings. We have now begun manufacturing custom miners specific tomorrow's needs and applications, providing unique cost and performance advantages. Our hardware to pick, two phase in merchant cooling is now being deployed at two customer sites, one domestic and one international with a 30-megawatt pilot underway.

正如你們許多人所知，我們是一家美國 ASIC 製造商的創始投資者，該製造商的晶片比目前市場上的產品更節能。我們現在已經開始製造針對未來需求和應用的客製化礦工，提供獨特的成本和性能優勢。我們的硬體選擇，商用冷卻的兩階段目前正在兩個客戶站點部署，一個是國內，一個是國際，正在進行 30 兆瓦的試點。

And preliminary data indicates that is successful in enabling miners to increase operational cash rates with minimal losses in productivity -- potentially reducing CapEx by up to one-third for typical mining installation. Our software or pool enables us to capture higher revenues and keep 100% of transaction fees with Block rewards outperforming the network average by over 10%.

初步數據表明，這成功地幫助礦工提高了營運現金率，同時將生產力損失降至最低——對於典型的採礦設施，這可能會將資本支出降低高達三分之一。我們的軟體或礦池使我們能夠獲得更高的收入，並保留 100％ 的交易費用，且區塊獎勵比網路平均高出 10％ 以上。

Looking ahead, we're positioning MARA solutions to support AI inference workloads, which require modular low latency infrastructure. We're already in advanced talks with several compute OEMs to roll out pilots this year. 2025 is an important year for MARA as we continue our transformation into a vertically integrated digital asset digital energy and infrastructure company, and we look forward to sharing more news as the year progresses.

展望未來，我們將 MARA 解決方案定位為支援需要模組化低延遲基礎架構的 AI 推理工作負載。我們已經與多家電腦 OEM 廠商進行了深入談判，計劃今年推出試點計畫。 2025 年對 MARA 來說是重要的一年，因為我們將繼續轉型為一家垂直整合的數位資產數位能源和基礎設施公司，我們期待在這一年中分享更多新聞。

In conclusion, in Q1, we reduced costs, increased profitability and proved we can design, build and operate infrastructure powered by energy. Thank you for your support as we continue our transformation. We've come a long way, but this is only the beginning.

總而言之，在第一季度，我們降低了成本，提高了獲利能力，並證明了我們能夠設計、建造和營運能源驅動的基礎設施。感謝您在我們繼續轉型期間給予的支持。我們已經走了很長一段路，但這只是個開始。

Now, let me turn the call over to Salman for some highlights from the quarter. Salman?

現在，讓我將電話轉給薩爾曼，讓他談談本季的一些亮點。薩勒曼？

Thank you, Fred. Q1 was a challenging quarter as the average price of Bitcoin declined meaningfully compared to Q4 and greater network difficulty combined with rising global hash rate impacted our production. Despite these recent headwinds, over the past year, our energized cash rate increased 95% to 54.3 ash per second in Q1 of 2025 from 27.8 x as per second in Q1 of 2024.

謝謝你，弗雷德。第一季是一個充滿挑戰的季度，因為與第四季度相比，比特幣的平均價格大幅下降，網路難度加大，加上全球哈希率上升，對我們的生產產生了影響。儘管最近面臨這些不利因素，但在過去的一年裡，我們的啟動現金率從 2024 年第一季的每秒 27.8 灰分增長了 95%，達到 2025 年第一季的每秒 54.3 灰分。

Also, we currently hold over 48,000 bitcoin on our balance sheet. Since our full Hubbell announcement in July of last year, the price of Bitcoin has increased approximately 52%. At MARA's Quint Turbo strategy of accumulating Bitcoin through mining and purchases, we expect it to create significant value for our shareholders over time. By mining Bitcoin at one of the largest -- I'm sorry, by mining Bitcoin at one of the lowest direct energy cost per coin in the sector, while also opportunistically acquiring Bitcoin, we can capture upside from both operational profitability and Bitcoin price appreciation.

此外，我們目前的資產負債表上持有超過 48,000 個比特幣。自去年 7 月我們全面宣布 Hubbell 以來，比特幣的價格已上漲約 52%。在 MARA 的 Quint Turbo 策略中，透過挖礦和購買來累積比特幣，我們預計它將隨著時間的推移為我們的股東創造巨大的價值。透過以最大的方式之一開採比特幣——對不起，透過以業內最低的每枚比特幣直接能源成本之一開採比特幣，同時機會性地收購比特幣，我們可以從營運盈利能力和比特幣價格升值中獲得好處。

Now let me provide some financial highlights for the quarter. I would first like to point out that since the beginning of 2024, we have transformed MARA from 0% owned and operated capacity to approximately 70%. As a result, we made changes to how we present our financial results to give investors a clearer view of our business. The goal with these changes is to make our financials more transparent and better reflect the way our business is evolving.

現在讓我提供本季的一些財務亮點。首先我想指出的是，自 2024 年初以來，我們已將 MARA 的自有和營運產能從 0% 轉變為約 70%。因此，我們對財務表現的呈現方式進行了更改，以便投資者更清楚地了解我們的業務。這些變化的目標是使我們的財務更加透明並更好地反映我們的業務發展方式。

We also reclassified our prior period numbers to be consistent with the new format. These updates didn't affect our reported financial position, results or cash flows. Revenues increased 30% to $213.9 million from $165.2 million in the first quarter of 2024. Average price of Bitcoin was 77% higher this quarter than the prior period -- prior year period and continued -- and contributed about $90.7 million to our revenues, which was partially offset by a decrease in Bitcoin production due to having an increased network difficulty.

我們還對前期數字進行了重新分類，以符合新格式。這些更新不會影響我們報告的財務狀況、業績或現金流量。營收從 2024 年第一季的 1.652 億美元成長 30% 至 2.139 億美元。本季比特幣的平均價格比上一季（去年同期及之後）高出 77%，為我們的收入貢獻了約 9,070 萬美元，但由於網路難度增加導致比特幣產量下降，部分抵消了這一貢獻。

On the other hand, Bitcoin price as of March 31, 2025, was 12% lower than as of December 31, 2024. This resulted in an unrealized fair market value loss of $510.2 million in Q1 of 2025. As a result, we reported a net loss of $533.4 million or negative $1.55 per diluted share in the quarter compared to a net income of $337.2 million or $1.26 per diluted share in the first quarter of last year.

另一方面，截至 2025 年 3 月 31 日的比特幣價格比 2024 年 12 月 31 日的價格低 12%。這導致 2025 年第一季未實現公平市場價值損失 5.102 億美元。因此，我們報告本季淨虧損 5.334 億美元，即每股攤薄虧損 1.55 美元，而去年第一季淨收入為 3.372 億美元，即每股攤薄虧損 1.26 美元。

Importantly, since the quarter -- since the end of the quarter, we've seen a substantial recovery in the price of Bitcoin. If that strength continues or even hold steady, we expect it to have a meaningful positive impact on our second quarter results. Despite recognizing a loss in Q1 due to a quarter end Bitcoin price of roughly $82,000 per coin the current approximately over $100,000 per coin price would imply a fair value gain of over $800 million approximately thus far in Q2.

重要的是，自本季末以來，我們看到比特幣價格大幅回升。如果這種強勁勢頭持續下去甚至保持穩定，我們預計它將對我們的第二季業績產生有意義的積極影響。儘管由於季度末比特幣價格約為每枚 82,000 美元而導致第一季出現虧損，但目前每枚比特幣價格約為每枚 100,000 美元以上，這意味著第二季度迄今為止的公允價值收益約為 8 億美元以上。

Our adjusted EBITDA decreased to a loss of $483.6 million in Q1 2025 from $542.1 million in Q1 of 2024. Finally, our purchase energy cost per Bitcoin for owned mining sites was $35,728 per coin and $0.04 per kilowatt hour. Cost of revenue per petahash per day, excluding depreciation, declined 10% sequentially. Despite the higher difficulty level to mine due to a higher global hash rate. Due to our shift from an asset-light to a vertically integrated strategy, we believe we are well positioned to reduce our operating costs over time as we further expand our own initiatives.

我們的調整後 EBITDA 從 2024 年第一季的 5.421 億美元降至 2025 年第一季的 4.836 億美元虧損。最後，我們為自有採礦站點購買每比特幣的能源成本為每枚比特幣 35,728 美元，每千瓦時 0.04 美元。不包括折舊，每 Petahash 每天的收入成本較上季下降 10%。儘管由於全球哈希率較高，挖礦難度也較高。由於我們從輕資產策略轉向垂直整合策略，我們相信，隨著我們進一步擴大自己的計劃，我們有能力隨著時間的推移降低營運成本。

As Fred mentioned earlier, we now operate 139 megawatts of stranded or underutilized energy generation. Since the beginning of 2025, we have completed the acquisition of 114-megawatt wind farm and fully energized our 25-megawatt on-site and edge compute operations at oil and natural gas fields in Texas and North Dakota. These low-cost projects are expected to further reduce our mining costs over time.

正如弗雷德之前提到的，我們現在運作著 139 兆瓦的閒置或未充分利用的能源發電。自 2025 年初以來，我們完成了對 114 兆瓦風電場的收購，並在德克薩斯州和北達科他州的油氣田全面啟動了 25 兆瓦的現場和邊緣運算營運。這些低成本項目預計將隨著時間的推移進一步降低我們的採礦成本。

With that, I'll turn it over to Stephen Glagola from Jones Trading to start our management interview. Stephen?

接下來，我將把時間交給 Jones Trading 的 Stephen Glagola，開始我們的管理階層訪談。史蒂芬？

Thank you, Fred, Salman, and Rob for having me here today. I appreciate it. Fred, you opened your shareholder letter and prepared remarks opining on Bitcoin price action and how MARA's stock tends to trade more off-market sentiment versus fundamentals. Bitcoin is up around, I think, 9% year to date or so hash price is down 4%, but MARA is down 15%. And so maybe can you just elaborate on where you see the market disconnect between your fundamentals and share performance and why you see Bitcoin price behaving less like a risk asset going forward.

感謝弗雷德、薩爾曼和羅布今天邀請我來這裡。我很感激。弗雷德，你打開了致股東的信函並準備了評論，對比特幣價格走勢以及 MARA 的股票如何傾向於更多地根據場外情緒而非基本面進行交易發表意見。我認為，今年迄今為止，比特幣上漲了約 9%，哈希價格下跌了 4%，但 MARA 下跌了 15%。因此，您能否詳細說明您認為市場基本面和股票表現之間的脫節之處，以及為什麼您認為比特幣價格未來表現得不再像風險資產。

Sorry, let's take that in two parts. So just relative to the share price performance, it's interesting. It seems that the market values us for our Bitcoin holdings but gives us no credit for our Bitcoin mining operations. And if you were to look at how some of our peers who don't have a hoddle are valued -- they certainly have a market valuation for the Bitcoin mining operations.

抱歉，我們將其分為兩部分來討論。因此，僅相對於股價表現而言，這很有趣。市場似乎根據我們的比特幣持有量來評價我們，但卻沒有對我們的比特幣挖礦業務給予任何評價。如果你看看我們的一些沒有 hoddle 的同行是如何估值的——他們肯定對比特幣挖礦業務有一個市場估值。

So we should, in theory, get the benefit of both, but then that's just how the market happens to see as they look at our big (inaudible) and they value us that way. We personally think that the company is obviously more valuable than that.

因此，從理論上講，我們應該兩全其美，但這只是市場對我們的大（聽不清楚）的看法，並以此來評價我們。我們個人認為該公司的價值顯然比這更高。

As regards to the Bitcoin price action, if you would, many people I've seen in the news lately. There's now 4 or 5 new companies that have announced that they intend to become Bitcoin treasury companies. You've seen that the state of new ventures now approved their Bitcoin strategic reserve, and they will be actually investing in Bitcoin and buying it. The state of Arizona is going to allocate Bitcoin to the Bitcoin strategic reserve that they're creating that is in the possession of state government law enforcement and others.

關於比特幣的價格走勢，如果你願意的話，我最近在新聞上看到很多人。目前已有 4 或 5 家新公司宣布有意成為比特幣財務公司。你已經看到，新興企業的國家現在已經批准了他們的比特幣戰略儲備，他們將實際投資比特幣併購買它。亞利桑那州將把比特幣分配給他們正在創建的比特幣戰略儲備，該儲備由州政府執法部門和其他機構保管。

And I fully expect to see other states continue in this path of establishing strategic equine reserves. In the very near future here, we'll see the administration in Washington announced how much Bitcoin is going into the strategic reserve because I believe we're coming up on the deadline for that. And I think we're starting to see continued good institutional inflows into the ETFs, and we're now seeing a number that was published earlier this week or last week that showed about 9% of existing Bitcoin is now held by corporates and ETFs.

我完全希望看到其他州繼續沿著這條道路建立戰略馬匹保護區。在不久的將來，我們將看到華盛頓政府宣布有多少比特幣將進入戰略儲備，因為我相信我們即將迎來這個最後期限。我認為我們開始看到機構資金持續流入 ETF，我們現在看到的本週稍早或上週發布的數據顯示，目前約有 9% 的現有比特幣由企業和 ETF 持有。

And so as that continues to happen, that's going to continue to drive the price of Bitcoin up. And so I believe that we are in a very different market regime than previous regimes where we had cycles that every 4 years Bitcoin would act based on having and miner production. But if you look at the market today, even though most miners are selling and MARA is still doing a full Hubbell strategy. the price of Bitcoin is moving up. So there's clearly demand in excess of supply.

隨著這種情況的持續發生，比特幣的價格將繼續上漲。因此，我相信我們目前所處的市場體制與以前的體制截然不同，以前的體制是每 4 年比特幣都會根據其擁有量和礦工的生產情況進行週期性波動。但如果你看看今天的市場，儘管大多數礦工都在拋售，但 MARA 仍在執行完整的 Hubbell 策略。比特幣的價格正在上漲。因此，顯然需求大於供給。

And if you think of stock-to-flow ratios, 450 new Bitcoin being emitted today, if every miner, we're selling Bitcoin that would be 400 Bitcoins going into the market every day and yet a greater number than that are being purchased every day by just a handful of players. So I think we're going to continue to see things move up in Bitcoin longer term, which is why we are still in very much a full hall position.

如果你考慮存量流量比，今天新發行的比特幣有 450 個，如果每個礦工都出售比特幣，那麼每天就會有 400 個比特幣進入市場，但每天只有少數玩家購買的比特幣數量會更多。因此我認為，從長遠來看，我們將繼續看到比特幣的上漲，這就是為什麼我們仍然處於滿員狀態。

And I'd like to focus, I guess, my lead questions here on your off-grade expansion strategy. So first, on the types of off-grid sites, MARA's prioritizing for future growth. Can you elaborate on the public private partnerships with governments and energy companies that you're currently in discussions with? And -- are you focusing more on flare gas or wind or other sources for new acquisitions and developments?

我想在這裡主要討論一下你們的場外擴張戰略。首先，關於離網站點的類型，MARA 優先考慮未來的發展。您能否詳細說明目前正在與政府和能源公司討論的公私部門合作？並且—您是否更關注火炬氣或風能或其他新收購和開發的能源？

So if you think about what I said 4 years ago, I think it was at the Mining Disrupt Conference in July of 2021. I said that Bitcoin miners are going to have to partner with energy companies or energy companies or going to own them. And that is because I believe that eventually grid attached Bitcoin mining, where you have a PPA and you're paying an average cost, which I believe today the average PPA for a Bitcoin miner is somewhere north of $0.04 a kilowatt hour would not be tenable as you start getting out into the years of 2028 and having in 2032, and that you would have to partner with energy companies and find a different way to structure the business.

所以如果你想想我 4 年前說過的話，我想那是在 2021 年 7 月的 Mining Disrupt 會議上。我說過，比特幣礦工將不得不與能源公司或能源公司合作或擁有它們。這是因為我相信，最終與電網連接的比特幣挖礦（即你有一個 PPA 並且你支付平均成本，我相信今天比特幣礦工的平均 PPA 在每千瓦時 0.04 美元左右）將無法維持，因為你開始進入 2028 年並擁有 2032 年，你必須與能源公司合作並找到一種不同的方式來構建業務。

So without divulging details, we are very much executing on that vision of partnering with energy companies. If you look at the Duke University study that was recently done, they published statistic basically saying that while the AI industry needs somewhere in excess of 40 gigawatts of power, to deploy their growth plans. The US energy grid has in excess of 70 gigawatts available if the load is willing to be flexible by a small percentage, which currently the AI industry is not.

因此，在不透露細節的情況下，我們正在積極執行與能源公司合作的願景。如果你看一下杜克大學最近進行的研究，他們發布的統計數據基本上表明，人工智慧產業需要超過 40 千兆瓦的電力來部署其成長計畫。如果負載願意稍微靈活一點，美國電網將有超過 70 千兆瓦的可用電力，但目前人工智慧產業還做不到這一點。

We believe that by bringing solutions for load balancing to the AI industry that will enable AI data centers to co-locate with Bitcoin miners, where Bitcoin miners provide the flexible load that enables AI data centers to operate as a flexible load on their grid. This will opened up huge amounts of power to the AI industry.

我們相信，透過為人工智慧產業帶來負載平衡解決方案，人工智慧資料中心將能夠與比特幣礦工共處一地，其中比特幣礦工提供靈活的負載，使人工智慧資料中心能夠作為其電網上的靈活負載運作。這將為人工智慧產業釋放巨大的力量。

And as we start shifting to inference what is now more being called a (inaudible) AI, those types of data centers don't need 500, 600, 700 megawatts. And they need less than 5. They need less than 50. These are much smaller data centers located in close proximity to the customers that are operating them, primarily private cloud operations, near-prime or on prime.

當我們開始轉向推理（現在被稱為（聽不清楚）人工智慧）時，這些類型的資料中心不需要 500、600、700 兆瓦。他們需要的量少於 5 個。他們需要的不到 50 個。這些是規模小得多的資料中心，位於靠近營運它們的客戶的位置，主要是私有雲運營、近優質或優質。

So we believe that the future of energy is about partnering with energy companies, where we can help them monetize every stranded electron or every underutilized electron. And if you look in markets like the Middle East, for example, when we started working in UAE in the winter time, they had upwards of 3 gigawatts of excess power available and in the summertime, that dropped fairly dramatically. But since then, they have continued to add energy generating capacity.

因此，我們相信，能源的未來在於與能源公司合作，我們可以幫助他們將每一個閒置的電子或每一個未充分利用的電子貨幣化。例如，如果你看看中東這樣的市場，當我們在冬季開始在阿聯酋工作時，他們有超過 3 千兆瓦的過剩電力可用，而到了夏季，這一數字急劇下降。但自那時起，他們就不斷增加發電能力。

If you look at Saudi Arabia, they likely have 4 to 5 gigawatts of excess energy capacity today that could be made available and monetized and used. If you look in Europe, you have a similar situation. While people reads and headlines about Spain and Portugal going offline due to grid instability issues. They have built out huge amounts of renewable energy, which has not really selling energy during a great portion of the year. And those are all electrons that are going underutilized.

如果你看看沙烏地阿拉伯，他們目前可能擁有 4 至 5 千兆瓦的過剩能源容量，可以提供、貨幣化和使用。如果你看看歐洲，你會發現類似的情況。人們讀到並看到有關西班牙和葡萄牙因電網不穩定問題而斷電的新聞。他們開發了大量再生能源，但在一年中的大部分時間裡，這些能源實際上並沒有被出售。這些都是未被充分利用的電子。

And so our focus is to work together with energy companies work together with sovereigns and government entities to take advantage of all of those underutilized electrons by structuring business relationships that enable us to partner with them on a long-term basis to build, operate and manage essentially flexible loads that can help monetize that stranded energy.

因此，我們的重點是與能源公司、主權國家和政府實體合作，透過建立業務關係來利用所有未充分利用的電力，使我們能夠與他們進行長期合作，以構建、運營和管理基本上靈活的負載，從而幫助將閒置能源貨幣化。

As you look at the mix, what you're going to find is a mix of thermal, a mix of wind, solar and some flare gas. It really depends on the market and the partner. We're in discussions with some of the largest energy companies in the world that have a mix of all those energy sources and nuclear. And their concern is one of how do they balance load owner grid how do they deploy flexible baseload and how do they monetize from behind the meter at renewable sites, the electrons they can't sell today. And so you'll continue to see a broad mix of energy-generating assets.

當你觀察混合物時，你會發現它是熱能、風能、太陽能和一些火炬氣的混合物。這實際上取決於市場和合作夥伴。我們正在與世界上一些最大的能源公司進行討論，這些公司擁有所有這些能源和核能。他們關心的是如何平衡負載所有者電網，如何部署靈活的基載，以及如何從再生能源站點的電錶後面將他們目前無法出售的電子貨幣化。因此，您將繼續看到各種各樣的能源資產組合。

In regards to flare gas, there are a lot of gas assets around the world that are very applicable to this method. And what I think you'll see us doing more and more in the future is as we continue to work with especially oil and gas producers, you'll see chunks of this flare gas type generation come online in different parts of the world where we're able to deploy our Bitcoin mining operations as a way to monetize that stranded gas. And we're super excited about those opportunities.

對於火炬氣，世界各地有許多天然氣資產非常適合這種方法。我認為，隨著我們繼續與石油和天然氣生產商合作，您將來會看到我們做得越來越多，您會看到這種火炬氣類型的發電大量出現在世界各地，我們能夠在那裡部署我們的比特幣挖礦業務，從而將這些滯留的天然氣貨幣化。我們對這些機會感到非常興奮。

But I think the message here is expect us to grow aggressively in partnership with these public and private entities across the world. And as you may recall, one of our goals -- stated goals was to grow our international business such that we had about a 50-50 mix between US and international and we'll continue to do that. And we believe that is a great way of delivering on growing US tax rates because even though we operate outside the US, it doesn't mean we won't be pointing that cash rate back to US-controlled pools.

但我認為這裡傳達的訊息是，我們期望與世界各地的公共和私人實體合作，並積極發展。您可能還記得，我們​​的目標之一是擴大我們的國際業務，使美國和國際業務的比例達到 50%，我們將繼續這樣做。我們相信，這是實現美國稅率不斷提高的絕佳方式，因為儘管我們在美國境外開展業務，但這並不意味著我們不會將現金利率指向美國控制的資金池。

So we're very excited about being able to contribute to US global mining share growth. across all the countries that we mine in.

因此，我們非常高興能夠為美國全球採礦份額的成長做出貢獻。遍佈我們採礦的所有國家。

Any guidance on the time line of when we should expect those partnerships to start coming to fruition? Like is that over the course of 25 starting? Or is that I know it's a 3-year target that you're looking at, but just any context you could provide there?

您能告訴我們這些合作關係何時能夠開始取得成果嗎？就像是在 25 場比賽中開始的那樣嗎？或者我知道您正在考慮一個 3 年目標，但您能否提供一些背景資訊？

We purposely not wanted to guide to exahash numbers because what that does is causes the market to look at us chasing a specific number and delivering on a certain time. And when you're working with these large government and energy majors, things can take longer than one thing.

我們故意不想引導到 exahash 數字，因為那會導致市場認為我們追逐特定的數字並在特定時間交付。當你與這些大型政府和能源巨頭合作時，事情可能需要更長的時間。

I think what I can say, though, is that you will see good progress this year and some announcements that will give an indication of the potential of what's going to happen over the next few years. And I think you'll see us showing up at events in places where other miners normally wouldn't be as we talk to these partners.

不過，我認為我可以說的是，今年你們將會看到良好的進展，一些公告將預示未來幾年將會發生什麼。我認為，當我們與這些合作夥伴交談時，您會看到我們出現在其他礦工通常不會出現的地方的活動中。

Maybe this one for Salman or Fred whoever wants to take it. MARA reported a cash cost of $0.0285 per terahash in Q1, and that's I think it marks 4 consecutive quarters of sequential improvement. As you continue to expand this off-grade power capacity, how do you expect this to impact your ash cost position over the next 3 years?

也許這個是給薩爾曼或弗雷德的，無論誰想拿走它。MARA 報告稱第一季的現金成本為每太赫茲 0.0285 美元，我認為這標誌著連續 4 個季度的連續改善。隨著您繼續擴大這種非標準發電能力，您預計這將如何影響您未來 3 年的灰成本狀況？

Salman, do you want to take that?

薩爾曼，你想接受這個嗎？

Yes, so Stephen, as you mentioned, we have sequentially reduced our cash cost and our eyes have been fixated on capital and operational efficiencies. And that result is showing up in our historical P&L. As we have stated in the past, we expect our cash cost to continue to decline over a period of time. And those are as a result of actionable projects that we have worked on some of those that you have seen publicly announced and others, as Fred mentioned, are in the pipeline.

是的，史蒂芬，正如您所說，我們已經連續降低了現金成本，並且我們的目光一直集中在資本和營運效率上。這結果體現在我們的歷史損益表中。正如我們過去所說，我們預計我們的現金成本將在一段時間內持續下降。這些都是我們開展的可行項目的結果，其中一些項目已經公開宣布，而其他項目，正如弗雷德所提到的，正在籌備中。

As we go -- as we move forward from here, we expect the Bitcoin mining to be -- this sector, every 4 years, there's a having event that happens. And the expectation is the bitcoin price is going to go up. We are building our company in a position where we don't have to rely on the Bitcoin price or cash price to continue to go up. We expect it to go up, and we expect it to create significant value for us, but we are prepared for the downside situation. And that's why it's very important for us to be sourcing megawatts that are closer to the low-cost environment.

隨著我們不斷前進，我們預計比特幣挖礦將會成為這個領域每四年就會發生的事件。預計比特幣價格將會上漲。我們正在將公司建立成不需要依賴比特幣價格或現金價格持續上漲的局面。我們預計它會上漲，我們預計它會為我們創造巨大的價值，但我們也為下跌的情況做好了準備。這就是為什麼對我們來說採購更接近低成本環境的兆瓦非常重要。

For example, the announcements that we had in Q1, the 139 megawatts generation of electricity from our own source. One of them is the wind farm in Texas and that's about 114-megawatt plant, and that results in a significant reduction in our cost because we consume electricity during the time when the wind blows and when the rig is congested. And the grid loves that because we are able to decongest the grid while hashing at the peak hours, and we don't have to mine when the electricity is expensive. So that's the kind of model that helps us drive our costs down.

例如，我們在第一季宣布，自有發電量為 139 兆瓦。其中之一是位於德克薩斯州的風力發電場，發電量約為 114 兆瓦，這顯著降低了我們的成本，因為我們在刮風時和鑽井平台擁擠時消耗電力。電網對此非常滿意，因為我們能夠在高峰時段進行哈希運算，從而緩解電網擁堵，而且我們不必在電費昂貴的時候進行挖礦。這是一種可以幫助我們降低成本的模型。

One point that I want to mention is that while the sector is focused on specific KPIs, for example, some companies, some of our peers are very focused on Terahash. Some of them are very focused on uptime. No doubt that these are important metrics but you have to view what does -- what value does that create for your stockholders? And our focus is the value creation for our stockholders.

我想提到的一點是，雖然該行業專注於特定的 KPI，但例如，一些公司、我們的一些同行非常關注 Terahash。其中一些非常注重正常運行時間。毫無疑問，這些都是重要的指標，但你必須考慮這能為你的股東創造什麼價值？我們的重點是為股東創造價值。

The uptime could be compromised for that the jewels per Terahash could be lower depending on the pricing where you get there as long as it creates the most value for our stockholders, and that's where our eyes are focused on, and that's exactly what we believe is going to drive our cash cost further down from here.

正常運作時間可能會受到影響，因為每 Terahash 的寶石可能會更低，這取決於您到達的定價，只要它能為我們的股東創造最大的價值，這就是我們關注的重點，而這正是我們相信將從現在開始進一步降低我們的現金成本的因素。

And -- you can think of it as when you have your own generation and your energy price is substantially lower than $0.03 or $0.02 a kilowatt hour then all of a sudden, it opens up the ability to use maybe slightly less efficient machines as some onset. And if we're able to deprecate machines that have already been fully depreciated from our grid tach sites and reuse those behind the meter at these intermittent sites -- your hash cost drops very significantly.

而且——你可以想像，當你擁有自己的發電設施，並且你的能源價格遠低於每千瓦時 0.03 美元或 0.02 美元時，那麼突然之間，你就可以使用效率稍低的機器了。如果我們能夠淘汰電網測速站中已經完全折舊的機器，並在這些間歇性站點重新使用電錶後面的機器，那麼您的雜湊成本就會大幅下降。

And if you don't have the need to operate 99% of uptime because the machines are depreciated, and so they've already been paid for. And so every kilowatt hour you can operate, especially that you can operate at these low power costs is a profitable hour. And so we believe that over time, as we continue to grow this fleet of what we call our AARP fleet, our advanced ASIC replacement fleet or retirement fleet, then that will have a very positive impact on the overall cash cost going forward.

如果您不需要保持 99% 的正常運作時間，因為機器已經折舊，所以已經付款了。因此，您運行的每一千瓦時電能，尤其是在如此低的電力成本下運行的每一千瓦時電能，都是有利可圖的。因此，我們相信，隨著時間的推移，隨著我們繼續擴大我們所謂的 AARP 車隊、先進的 ASIC 替換車隊或退役車隊，這將對未來的整體現金成本產生非常積極的影響。

It also gives us a secondary advantage, which is if you're only doing grid attached like some of our peers do, every 3 or 4 years, you have to replace your fleet to stay competitive because you're paying a fixed price PPA and potentially even at energy cost is going up due to demand on the grid. And then you sell off those machines and you buy new machines, by being able to retire our machines into a graceful program of retirement at these behind-the-meter sites, our hash rate hasn't decreased in the same way that our peers is, where they're having to do net zero replacements.

它還為我們提供了第二個優勢，那就是如果您像我們的一些同行一樣只進行電網連接，那麼每 3 或 4 年您就必須更換您的機組以保持競爭力，因為您支付的是固定價格的 PPA，甚至能源成本也可能由於電網需求而上漲。然後你賣掉這些機器併購買新機器，透過將這些機器退役到這些電錶後站點的優雅退役計劃中，我們的哈希率並沒有像我們的同行那樣下降，他們必須進行淨零替換。

We're able to maintain a certain amount of cash rate and by incremental hash rate to add that. It also gives us the ability to even buy other people's retired machines. And if you can buy a machine that is only 1/3 less efficient than a state-of-the-art machine, but you're only going to pay 1/3 of the price for it that's actually very beneficial.

我們能夠維持一定數量的現金率，並透過增量哈希率來增加這一點。它還使我們有能力購買其他人的退役機器。如果你能買到一台效率只比最先進的機器低 1/3 的機器，但你只需支付 1/3 的價格，這實際上是非常有利的。

So we believe this is the right strategy going forward as we continue to scale.

因此，我們相信，隨著我們不斷擴大規模，這是正確的未來策略。

And can you address sort of the concerns that lower cash cost for the off-grid mining may be offset by trade-offs like reduced you kind of touched on this, reduced rig uptime, higher operational expenses and elevated capital expenditures sort of maybe how do you see the IRR for off-grade Bitcoin mining sites compared to grid connected sites. And I know you touched on some of the economics of the wind farm in the shareholder letter. So maybe just elaborating on that.

您能否解釋一下這種擔憂，即離網挖礦的較低現金成本可能會被一些權衡所抵消，例如減少鑽機正常運行時間、增加運營費用和增加資本支出，您如何看待離網比特幣挖礦站點與並網站點相比的 IRR。我知道您在致股東的信中談到了風電場的一些經濟問題。所以也許只是詳細說明一下。

Yes. I think if you look at -- in the case of the wind farm, for example, the infrastructure cost as stated in the shareholder letter, I think about $150,000 to $160,000 per megawatt, which is substantially less than what you would be paying in a traditional grid attached because we're able to use these let's just call it retired anything structure, meaning miners and containers, et cetera.

是的。我認為如果你看一下——以風力發電場為例，正如股東信中所述，基礎設施成本約為每兆瓦 15 萬至 16 萬美元，這比傳統電網連接的成本要低得多，因為我們能夠使用這些我們稱之為退役的任何結構，即礦工和集裝箱等等。

And when you marry that with -- at a wind farm, you don't have an input cost for your energy right, at a wind farm, your energy cost marginally is just to put a number out there, say, $0.01 per kilowatt hour for your O&M. That essentially gives you best-in-class operating cost when you look at the minimal cost of the infrastructure and the power cost. So if you can operate 60% of the time, that's a great opportunity right there.

當你將其與風力發電場結合時，你沒有能源的投入成本，在風力發電場，你的能源成本僅僅是一個數字，比如說，每千瓦時 0.01 美元，用於你的運營和維護。當您考慮基礎設施和電力成本的最低成本時，這實際上為您提供了一流的營運成本。因此，如果您可以 60% 的時間進行操作，那麼這是一個很好的機會。

If you can operate 70% of the time, it's amazing. And some of these wind assets have fairly good uptime which allows you to operate that way. In the case of the flare gas, you're operating 24/7 at very low cost. And so those types of sites are, again, very profitable. And as you go to these public-private partnerships, you can operate intermittently, especially if the price of energy that you're paying is similar to that of a wind farm or a flare gas side.

如果你能有70%的時間進行操作，那真是太棒了。其中一些風力發電資產擁有相當好的正常運作時間，因此您可以以這種方式運作。對於火炬氣來說，你可以以非常低的成本全天候運作。因此，這些類型的網站再次非常有利可圖。當你參與這些公私合作時，你可以間歇性地運營，特別是當你支付的能源價格與風力發電場或火炬氣價格相似時。

So we believe that this concept of Bitcoin going from being a 99% uptime operation to becoming more of an intermittent operation that's able to shape load to meet the demands of the energy companies, you become a very attractive partner for the energy companies, but it also requires that you have systems that allow you to shape your load to the energy companies supply. And that's been a big focus of our technology team over the past year.

因此，我們相信，比特幣的概念將從 99% 的正常運行時間運行轉變為間歇性運行，能夠調整負載以滿足能源公司的需求，你會成為能源公司非常有吸引力的合作夥伴，但它也要求你擁有允許你根據能源公司的供應調整負載的系統。這是我們技術團隊過去一年來關注的重點。

Just to add to that, the ARP program that we talked about earlier, the IRRs for those are significantly higher than a traditional model. And even with the depressed hash price assumption, we expect the IRR to be in the range of 30% to 40%. And this is the depressed price environment on the hash price, so very conservative.

補充一點，我們之前討論過的 ARP 計劃，其 IRR 明顯高於傳統模型。即使哈希價格低迷，我們預計 IRR 將在 30% 至 40% 的範圍內。這是哈希價格低迷的價格環境，因此非常保守。

When it comes to the cost per coin or energy cost you think about, as Fred mentioned electricity costs about $40 per megawatt hour -- all-in cost, probably $50, $55 per megawatt hour for traditional Bitcoin mining out there today. For the ARP program, we expect that to be approximately all-in cost, operating costs around $10 per megawatt hour. So as you can see, were systematically going into the direction of going closer to the lower cost operations that will drive our costs further down from here as we had talked about previously.

當談到每枚硬幣的成本或能源成本時，正如弗雷德提到的，電力成本約為每兆瓦時 40 美元——而目前傳統比特幣挖礦的總成本大概是每兆瓦時 50 到 55 美元。對於 ARP 計劃，我們預計其總成本約為每兆瓦時約 10 美元的營運成本。因此，正如您所看到的，我們正在系統地朝著更低成本的營運方向發展，這將使我們的成本進一步下降，正如我們之前談到的那樣。

Thanks, almond. Can I want to turn to AI real quick in the pick. I mean, can you maybe share more early market feedback from your 30-megawatt 2 bing immersion pilot project and what's going on there? And then what specific revenue opportunities do you see emerging from commercial deployments of 2 PIK and AI data centers?

謝謝，杏仁。我可以在選擇時快速轉向 AI 嗎？我的意思是，您能否分享更多來自您的 30 兆瓦 2 bing 沉浸式試點計畫的早期市場回饋以及在那裡發生的事情？那麼，您認為 2 個 PIK 和 AI 資料中心的商業部署會帶來哪些具體的收入機會？

Sure. So the 2 peak deployments we've done to date have been done with Bitcoin mining operations. And that's kind of an ideal way to wring out the any bugs, if you would, of these systems. And what we're finding there is that we have an ability to substantially overclock systems. So if you think of it this way, if you need 100 miners operating at nameplate capacity, to essentially operate a site and you have the ability to overclock them by 50%, it means you could reduce the number of miners you actually have to buy by third and miners being 1 of the most expensive components in a deployment, that CapEx savings is substantial, and the savings is significantly outweighs any marginal increase in cost of the 2-phase in merging costs.

當然。因此，我們迄今為止完成的兩次高峰部署都是透過比特幣挖礦作業完成的。如果你願意的話，這是一種排除這些系統中任何缺陷的理想方法。我們發現，我們有能力大幅超頻系統。因此，如果您這樣想，如果您需要 100 台以額定容量運行的礦機來運營一個站點，並且您有能力將它們超頻 50%，這意味著您可以將實際需要購買的礦機數量減少三分之一，而礦機是部署中最昂貴的組件之一，那麼資本節省是相當可觀的支出，而且節省的成本大大超過了兩邊增加的成本。

In AI, it's even more that way because of your ability to overclock your GPUs as you start moving to 1 kilowatt chips in AI, you pass to move to new types of cooling technology. And we are specifically designing 2-phase liquid cold plate technology, which is a plug-in replacement essentially to existing solutions today. So that we'll have a cooling technology that helps people deploying AI to transition from rack mount systems over time to 2 phase like with a merchant technology, but they'll be able to begin using our liquid cold plate solutions today to lower the cost of their cooling. And again, we don't use water in our systems.

在人工智慧領域，情況更是如此，因為當你開始轉向人工智慧中的 1 千瓦晶片時，你就可以對 GPU 進行超頻，從而轉向新型的冷卻技術。我們正在專門設計兩相液冷板技術，這基本上是對當今現有解決方案的插件式替代方案。因此，我們將擁有一種冷卻技術，幫助部署人工智慧的人們隨著時間的推移從機架安裝系統過渡到像商用技術一樣的兩階段，但他們今天就可以開始使用我們的液體冷板解決方案來降低冷卻成本。再次強調，我們的系統中不使用水。

And so we are environmentally friendlier in those spaces. And we fully expect to see some really exciting opportunities there. We're currently deploying getting ready to deploy pilots with multiple compute OEMs on the AI side. testing solutions across a broad set of applications and configurations, such that we're able to really characterize the benefits for each of these OEMs.

因此我們在這些空間裡更環保。我們完全期待在那裡看到一些真正令人興奮的機會。我們目前正在部署並準備與 AI 方面的多家運算 OEM 合作部署試點。在廣泛的應用程式和配置中測試解決方案，以便我們能夠真正描述每個 OEM 的優勢。

In the AI market, we believe the key thing is to partner with the compute OEMs, such that they use you as a reference. -- what people should use for cooling. It dramatically decreases the sales friction and dramatically increases the potential demand for the product. is only one of the many solutions we intend to bring to the AI and digital infrastructure market. Over time, it's our intention to deploy a broader swath of solutions and services.

在人工智慧市場，我們認為關鍵是與計算 OEM 合作，以便他們以您為參考。 ——人們應該用什麼來降溫。它大大減少了銷售摩擦並大大增加了產品的潛在需求。只是我們打算為人工智慧和數位基礎設施市場提供的眾多解決方案之一。隨著時間的推移，我們打算部署更廣泛的解決方案和服務。

to them such that they can leverage things like our power management capabilities, orchestration and other things. So we're very excited about what this market is going to bring.

以便他們可以利用我們的電源管理功能、編排功能等。因此，我們對這個市場即將帶來的變化感到非常興奮。

And we think and our liquid cold plate solutions are a great market entry vehicle for us as the AI technology industry continues to develop and as they advance into hover and hotter processors.

我們認為，隨著人工智慧技術產業的不斷發展以及它們向懸浮和更熱處理器領域的發展，我們的液體冷板解決方案對我們來說是一個很好的市場進入工具。

Thanks, Fred. And I want to touch on a couple of things here. I know I have some moment of time. But one, I mean maybe just wrapping it all together. So you recently did the Ardim Series C funding round.

謝謝，弗雷德。我想在這裡談幾點。我知道我還有一些時間。但首先，我的意思是也許只是把它們全部包裝在一起。您最近完成了 Ardim C 輪融資。

I was wondering if you can maybe -- if you can disclose your ownership stake there and if you're interested in pursuing a majority position or potential vertical integration in the future, one? And then around this, -- maybe just talk about how the tariffs imposed by the Trump administration are impacting procuring mining rigs. I think you spent about $136 million in CapEx in Q1 is split roughly 70-30 between rigs and infrastructure. So maybe just if you can combine all that into 1.

我想知道您是否可以—您是否可以揭露您在那裡的所有權股份，以及您是否有興趣在未來尋求多數股權或潛在的垂直整合？然後圍繞這一點，也許只是談論川普政府徵收的關稅如何影響採礦設備的採購。我認為您在第一季花費了大約 1.36 億美元的資本支出，其中鑽機和基礎設施的支出比例約為 70-30。所以也許只要你能將所有這些合併為 1 就可以了。

Sure. As it relates to Oradin, we own a little under 15% of the company today. And 1 of the reasons we were very involved in founding the company was because developing semiconductors is very expensive, and we felt it would be best done leveraging institutional investment dollars. And today, the investors in Orin include people like Mayfield, Celesta, Samsung and many others. And 1 of the Board members on that serves together with me on Orden's Board is Liu, the CEO of Intel.

當然。就 Oradin 而言，我們目前擁有該公司略低於 15% 的股份。我們積極參與創立這家公司的原因之一是，開發半導體的成本非常高，我們認為最好利用機構投資資金。如今，Orin 的投資者包括 Mayfield、Celesta、三星等眾多公司。與我一起在 Orden 董事會任職的董事會成員之一是英特爾執行長劉強東。

So Origin is very focused on solutions outside of Bitcoin mining as well. The Bitcoin Mining chip which were the predominant customer of is amazing, very power efficient and has a set of features that allow us to do all sorts of very special things in relates to in relation to dealing with the energy efficiency and how the chip operates towards a set target, whether that be cash rate, energy efficiency or maximum bitcoin production.

因此 Origin 也非常注重比特幣挖礦以外的解決方案。作為主要客戶的比特幣挖礦晶片非常棒，非常節能，並且具有一系列功能，使我們能夠做各種與處理能源效率以及晶片如何實現既定目標相關的非常特殊的事情，無論是現金利率、能源效率還是最大比特幣產量。

Other things that are doing relate to, which they've announced related to AI infrastructure technology around network which is a super excited product. Ardim has already spun off an AI security technology business. And if they keep doing the great job that they're doing, it's going to be a very valuable investment for Mara to have, but it's not something we'll make captive anytime soon. It just doesn't make sense for us.

他們正在進行的其他事情與他們宣布的圍繞網路的人工智慧基礎設施技術有關，這是一個非常令人興奮的產品。Ardim 已經剝離了人工智慧安全技術業務。如果他們繼續出色地完成工作，那麼對 Mara 來說這將是一筆非常有價值的投資，但我們不會很快將其俘虜。這對我們來說毫無意義。

As you look at other aspects of tariffs and things like that, as we mentioned in the shareholder letter, we've now begun manufacturing our own miners. And obviously, we've been working to develop a supply chain around that. That enables us to optimize and have agility, if you would, and what we're doing is such that we're minimizing as much as we possibly can, the impact of tariffs. And if you think about a minor the vast majority of the cost of the Bitcoin Minor are the ASICs. And so again, the relationship we have with Arden gives us the opportunity to keep our costs down.

當您考慮關稅等其他方面時，正如我們在股東信中提到的，我們現在已經開始製造自己的礦機。顯然，我們一直在努力圍繞這一點開發供應鏈。如果您願意的話，這使我們能夠進行優化並具有靈活性，而我們正在做的就是盡可能地減少關稅的影響。如果你考慮一下小型幣，你會發現比特幣小型幣的絕大部分成本都是 ASIC。因此，我們與 Arden 的合作關係使我們有機會降低成本。

and control the supply chain such that we can ensure our own supply, but more importantly, we can minimize the impact of tariffs. As it relates to the infrastructure that we use, it is going to have an impact, obviously, steel, metal, things that you used to do containerized solutions are impacted by tariffs, and I think will be impacted in that area the sameness anybody else would.

並控制供應鏈，以確保我們自己的供應，但更重要的是，我們可以最大限度地減少關稅的影響。由於它與我們使用的基礎設施有關，所以它會產生影響，顯然，鋼鐵、金屬以及用於貨櫃解決方案的東西都會受到關稅的影響，我認為這些領域也會受到與其他地方相同的影響。

But again, we have a very strong supply chain team that worked for us and especially with TPI and building our own technology solutions around containerization and infrastructure. we're going to optimize on a continual basis to how tariffs go. I think my personal belief is that I think we'll see trade deals announced on kind of a continual basis here over the next months that will ameliorate a lot of the concerns for industries. But I think that there will continue to be a challenge with tariffs related to China. And I think that the more that you can source outside of China, the better things will be.

但是，我們擁有一支非常強大的供應鏈團隊為我們工作，特別是與 TPI 合作，並圍繞集裝箱化和基礎設施構建我們自己的技術解決方案。我們將不斷優化關稅的實施方式。我個人認為，我們將在未來幾個月內看到貿易協議不斷宣布，這將緩解許多行業的擔憂。但我認為與中國相關的關稅挑戰仍將存在。我認為，在中國以外採購的資源越多，情況就會越好。

And then just lastly on the topic of tariffs. As we continue to grow our business outside of the US, that's a very different tariff picture when you're buying miners. or you're buying infrastructure and you're having that delivered somewhere outside the US

最後談談關稅問題。隨著我們繼續在美國以外拓展業務，購買礦機時的關稅情況將會截然不同。或者你購買基礎設施並將其運送到美國境外的某個地方

Thanks. So in March, or established a new $2 billion at-the-market equity facility. And I was hoping you could discuss sort of the strategic rationale for choosing an ATM program over taking on maybe additional leverage and outline your priorities for deploying these funds in '25 and beyond.

謝謝。因此，在三月份，或建立了一個新的 20 億美元市場股權融資工具。我希望您能討論一下選擇 ATM 計劃而不是承擔額外槓桿的戰略理由，並概述您在 25 年及以後部署這些資金的優先事項。

Stephen, when you think -- sure. When you think about the source of capital for this sector and for Mara in general, it's been predominantly dependent over the last few years with some converts. And in our history, we have done some converts by in 2021. And put some leverage on the balance sheet and bought Bitcoin.

史蒂芬，當你想到——當然。當你思考這個行業以及整個 Mara 的資金來源時，你會發現過去幾年它主要依賴一些皈依者。在我們的歷史上，到 2021 年我們已經完成了一些轉變。並在資產負債表上施加一些槓桿併購買比特幣。

And then we also did a 0% coupon last year to buy Bitcoin as you remember in the Q3, Q4 time frame. Our usage last year for the ATM was less than 50% of our total source of capital as a result of that. So when we look at our capital profile and our sources of capital with the growth plans, -- we look at what are the source of cash and source of raising capital for that and responsibly look at the opportunities to raise the capital.

然後，正如你所記得的，我們去年還在第三季和第四季推出了 0% 的優惠券來購買比特幣。因此，我們去年 ATM 的使用量還不到總資金來源的 50%。因此，當我們根據成長計畫審視我們的資本狀況和資本來源時，我們會考慮現金來源和籌集資金的來源，並負責任地尋找籌集資金的機會。

We are not in the market every day. We opportunistically look at -- there are some very specific KPI-driven capital raise program that we have instituted over the last few years. and that has worked out well for us. Now when we think about raising capital, the capital has to be deployed in accretive projects. And that's why our threshold has been very high.

我們不是每天都去市場。我們抓住機會——過去幾年來，我們制定了一些非常具體的以 KPI 為導向的融資計劃。這對我們來說非常有效。現在，當我們考慮籌集資金時，資金必須部署在增值項目中。這就是為什麼我們的門檻很高。

in terms of what -- how do we allocate our capital and what kind of rate of returns do we expect?

就什麼而言——我們如何分配我們的資本以及我們期望什麼樣的回報率？

And as we had talked about a few moments ago, the projects that we would expect to see in the future are going to squeeze more value out of the same investment that we had done in the past. The other thing that we have been focused on is another KPI, which is return on capital employed. And yes, quarter-over-quarter, it can fluctuate depending on the bitcoin price. But when you look at it on a long-term perspective, -- it is one of the most healthiest in the sector. And we take pride in that, but not only that, but we keep an eye on that as to what we invest our capital and utilize it we have prudent balance sheet management and preserve our flexibility to the source of capital available.

正如我們剛才談到的，我們預計未來看到的項目將從我們過去所做的相同投資中榨取更多的價值。我們一直關注的另一件事是另一個 KPI，即資本使用回報率。是的，每個季度它都會根據比特幣價格而波動。但從長遠來看，它是該行業最健康的公司之一。我們對此感到自豪，但不僅如此，我們還密切關注我們的資本投資和利用，我們有審慎的資產負債表管理，並保持對可用資本來源的靈活性。

And last 1 for me. you have that full hoddle approach that your Bitcoin treasury policy that you adopted in July of '24. You've seen other kind of miners in the market now starting to liquidate Bitcoin that's mine and so forth. -- do you plan to sort of maintain the strategy through '25 and beyond and sort of what factors or market dynamics might prompt MARA, to reconsider or sell some of its monthly production?

對我來說這是最後一個。你們在 2024 年 7 月採取了全面的比特幣財務政策。你已經看到市場上其他類型的礦工現在開始清算我的比特幣等等。 ——您是否計劃在 25 年及以後維持該策略，哪些因素或市場動態可能會促使 MARA 重新考慮或出售部分月產量？

Yes. I mean when you think about MARA, so the distinguishing feature that MARA versus look, investors have opportunities to invest in either bitcoin Hodler, who is going out and buying Bitcoin from the open market at the spot price, which, by the way, is right now 103,000 or people like to invest in miners like us who are pure play miners and they have -- for example, our cost per coin is 1 of the lowest in the sector. So any upside from the cost per coin to the Bitcoin price our stockholders benefit from that as the gold price kicks in.

是的。我的意思是，當您考慮 MARA 時，MARA 與其他產品的顯著特點是，投資者有機會投資比特幣持有者，他們會以現貨價格從公開市場購買比特幣，順便說一下，目前現貨價格為 103,000，或者人們喜歡投資像我們這樣的純粹礦工，例如，我們的每枚硬幣的成本是內業最低的之一。因此，隨著金價上漲，比特幣價格每枚硬幣成本的任何上漲都會讓我們的股東受益。

What MARA is doing is a twin turbocharge strategy, if you like, right? If you're a car owner, you would know that if you drive a base model or if you drive a single triple engine, there are differences. And then when you drive a winter engine, you see the benefit of both the sides, and that portfolio approach across the board is really attractive in our from a long-term perspective. And we expect -- we expect to pay off our stockholders from a long-term perspective as the Bitcoin price increases from here. So going back to the approach.

如果你喜歡的話，MARA 正在做的是雙渦輪增壓策略，對嗎？如果您是車主，您就會知道，如果您駕駛的是基本款車型，或者如果您駕駛的是單三缸引擎車型，那麼就會存在差異。然後，當您駕駛冬季引擎時，您會看到雙方的好處，從長遠來看，這種全面的投資組合方法確實對我們很有吸引力。我們預期－隨著比特幣價格上漲，我們可望從長期角度回報股東。所以回到方法上。

Last year, we went on full huddle strategy. We looked at the market conditions. We looked at the political ill winds and the macros, and it made a lot of sense to go out and huddle and we accumulate that bit quite that we haven't sold. And we also went out and bought Bitcoin by raising doing converts we represent coupon converted last year. And that was the best use of our capital at that point in time.

去年，我們採取了全面聚集策略。我們觀察了市場狀況。我們審視了政治上的不利因素和宏觀因素，發現走出去、聚在一起並累積那些我們尚未出售的資產是非常有意義的。我們也透過籌集轉換資金購買了比特幣，我們代表去年轉換的優惠券。那是當時我們資本的最佳運用方式。

Now we are not as you noticed that we are primarily a bitcoin miner. And -- but at the same time, our stockholders benefit from the second largest in worldwide and as far as we know at over 48,000 points today.

現在我們不再像您所注意到的那樣，主要是一名比特幣礦工。但同時，我們的股東也受惠於全球第二大股市，據我們所知，今天的股市已經超過 48,000 點。

Appreciate it.

非常感謝。

Thanks steve.

謝謝史蒂夫。

Appreciate the questions. We're going to pass on taking retail questions today as most of them are already addressed on today's call. Thanks, everyone, again, for joining us. If you have questions that were not answered during today's call, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations team at ir@mara.com. Thank you very much, and enjoy the rest of the day.

感謝您的提問。今天我們將不再回答零售方面的問題，因為大多數問題已經在今天的電話會議中得到解答。再次感謝大家加入我們。如果您在今天的電話會議中沒有得到解答，請隨時聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊 ir@mara.com。非常感謝，祝您今天過得愉快。

Thank you. This does conclude today's conference. We thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。今天的會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與。此時您可以斷開線路，享受美好的一天。