MARA Holdings Inc (MARA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Greetings and welcome to MARA's Q4 2024 earnings call.

問候並歡迎參加 MARA 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

（操作員指示）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the conference over to our host, Robert Samuels, Vice President, Investor Relations.

現在，我將會議交給主持人、投資者關係副總裁羅伯特·塞繆爾斯 (Robert Samuels)。

Thank you.

謝謝。

You may begin.

你可以開始了。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝您，接線生。

Good afternoon, and welcome to MARA's fourth-quarter and full-year 2024 earnings call.

下午好，歡迎參加 MARA 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

With me on today's call are our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Fred Thiel, and our Chief Financial Officer, Salman Khan.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的董事長兼首席執行官弗雷德·泰爾 (Fred Thiel) 和首席財務官薩爾曼·汗 (Salman Khan)。

Certain statements made during this call may be considered forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws.

本次電話會議中所做的某些聲明可能被視為聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性聲明。

In particular, any statements about our future growth plans and performance, our liquidity position, our growth opportunities, and our future financial performance are forward-looking statements.

特別是，任何有關我們未來成長計畫和績效、我們的流動性狀況、我們的成長機會以及我們未來財務表現的陳述都是前瞻性陳述。

These statements are identified by the use of words such as anticipate, believe, estimate, intend, design, may, plan, project, would, and similar expressions or variations.

這些陳述可以透過使用諸如預期、相信、估計、打算、設計、可能、計劃、項目、將以及類似的表達或變體來識別。

Investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements.

提醒投資者不要過度依賴這些前瞻性陳述。

All forward-looking statements made on today's call involve risks and uncertainties.

今天電話會議上所做的所有前瞻性陳述都涉及風險和不確定性。

While we may elect to update these forward-looking statements at some point in the future, we have no current intention of doing so, except to the extent required by applicable law.

雖然我們可能選擇在未來某個時間點更新這些前瞻性陳述，但我們目前沒有這樣做的打算，除非適用法律要求。

Our actual results and outcomes may differ materially from those included in these forward-looking statements as a result of various factors including but not limited to the factors discussed under the heading Risk Factors in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and any other periodic reports that we may file with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

由於各種因素，包括但不限於我們最近的 10-K 表年度報告和我們可能向美國證券交易委員會提交的任何其他定期報告中「風險因素」標題下所討論的因素，我們實際的結果和成果可能與這些前瞻性陳述中的結果和成果存在重大差異。

Finally, please note that on today's call, we will refer to certain financial measures that were not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles in the United States, including adjusted EBITDA and non-GAAP total margin.

最後，請注意，在今天的電話會議上，我們將參考某些未依照美國公認會計原則編製的財務指標，包括調整後的 EBITDA 和非 GAAP 總利潤率。

MARA believes these non-GAAP financial measures are important indicators of its operating performance because they exclude certain items that we do not believe directly reflect our core operations and may not be indicative of our recurring operations.

MARA 認為這些非 GAAP 財務指標是其經營績效的重要指標，因為它們排除了我們認為不直接反映我們的核心業務且可能無法表明我們的經常性業務的某些項目。

Please refer to the full -- please refer to the earnings release for a full reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures.

請參閱完整的－請參閱收益報告，以了解這些非 GAAP 財務指標與最具可比性的 GAAP 財務指標的完整對帳。

We hope you get the chance to read our shareholder letter, and we look forward to your feedback.

我們希望您有機會閱讀我們的股東信，並期待您的回饋。

We'll begin with some prepared remarks from Fred and Salman.

我們將首先聽取弗雷德和薩爾曼的準備好的演講。

After their comments, we are going to be conducting an analyst interview with management.

在聽取他們的評論後，我們將對管理層進行分析師訪談。

Today's session will be conducted by Brett Knoblauch, analyst at Cantor Fitzgerald.

今天的會議將由 Cantor Fitzgerald 分析師 Brett Knoblauch 主持。

Once Brett is finished, we will go through some of the more popular questions from our retail investors.

布雷特講完後，我們將討論散戶提出的一些比較常見的問題。

And with that out of the way, I'm going to turn the call over to Fred to kick things off.

這些都解決之後，我將把電話轉給弗雷德 (Fred) 來開始發言。

Fred.

弗雷德。

Thank you, Rob.

謝謝你，羅布。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us this afternoon.

感謝大家今天下午加入我們。

I'm very proud to report record high revenues, net income, and adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter and full year 2024.

我很自豪地報告 2024 年第四季和全年的收入、淨收入和調整後 EBITDA 都創下歷史新高。

In addition, our direct energy cost for Bitcoin for 2024 was $28,000 from our own sites.

此外，2024 年我們自己的站點的比特幣直接能源成本為 28,000 美元。

Our shareholder letter this quarter walks through the transformation that we set in motion last year to transform MARA from asset light into a vertically integrated energy and technology solutions provider, a transformation that we are accelerating in 2025.

我們本季致股東的信函概述了我們去年啟動的轉型，即將 MARA 從輕資產轉變為垂直整合的能源和技術解決方案提供商，我們將在 2025 年加速這一轉型。

We secured 300% more energy capacity, expanding our total portfolio from approximately 0.5 gigawatts to 1.7 gigawatts, and deployed our first owned power generating assets, reducing our reliance on grid power and lowering our cost to mine.

我們的能源容量增加了300%，將我們的總投資組合從約0.5千兆瓦擴大到1.7千兆瓦，並部署了我們第一批自有發電資產，減少了對電網電力的依賴並降低了採礦成本。

By owning energy assets, we lower our single biggest input cost, energy.

透過擁有能源資產，我們降低了最大的單項投入成本—能源。

Where the average grid-connected miner may be paying $40 a megawatts at sites where we use owned energy assets, our energy costs could be as low as $10 a megawatt or even less in some cases.

在我們使用自有能源資產的站點，普通併網礦工可能要支付每兆瓦 40 美元，而我們的能源成本可能低至每兆瓦 10 美元，在某些情況下甚至更低。

This is what allows us to extend the life of our single largest CapEx item, compute.

這使我們能夠延長單項最大資本支出項目—計算的使用壽命。

By potentially doubling the useful life of miners, our need for maintenance CapEx is reduced, which we believe will make us more capital efficient and less dependent on replacing our fleet at these sites every three to four years like our peers.

透過將礦工的使用壽命延長一倍，我們對維護資本支出的需求就會減少，我們相信這將使我們更加資本高效，並且不再像我們的同行那樣每三到四年就更換一次這些站點的礦隊。

This also means we potentially would be able to mine at times when others will have to curtail because the marginal cost to mine is too high, allowing us to benefit from likely reduction in global hash rate while some others cannot.

這也意味著，當其他人因為邊際成本太高而不得不減少挖礦時，我們有可能進行挖礦，使我們能夠從全球哈希率可能下降中受益，而其他人則不能。

The other area we're very focused on in regards to energy transformation is developing solutions that help us and the customers of our solutions optimize how power is consumed, stored, and distributed.

在能源轉型方面，我們非常關注的另一個領域是開發解決方案，幫助我們和我們的解決方案客戶優化電力的消耗、儲存和分配方式。

This allows us to activate new services for data centers, AI operators, and energy markets.

這使我們能夠為資料中心、人工智慧營運商和能源市場提供新的服務。

We can co-locate with them, balance their load, and generate revenue to offset costs in ways that grid reliant miners simply cannot.

我們可以與他們共置一台機器，平衡他們的負載，並創造收入來抵消成本，而依賴電網的礦工根本無法做到這一點。

We're proud of our transformation, but we're far from done.

我們為我們的轉型感到自豪，但我們還遠遠沒有完成。

While we remain bullish on Bitcoin in our mining business, we're continuing to explore how MARA can emerge as a leader in the next major opportunity, artificial intelligence.

在我們繼續看好比特幣挖礦業務的同時，我們也持續探索 MARA 如何在下一個重大機會——人工智慧中成為領導者。

The focus on inference AI where we intend to deploy an initial set of pilots totaling 30 megawatts of inference AI compute using our two-pick liquid cooling technology this year at our own sites, as well as our partner and a customer site.

我們專注於推理 AI，我們打算今年在我們自己的站點以及我們的合作夥伴和客戶站點使用我們的雙拾液冷技術部署一組總計 30 兆瓦的推理 AI 計算的初始試點。

We'll discuss our AI plans in more detail next quarter, and you can read more about it in our shareholder letter.

我們將在下個季度更詳細地討論我們的人工智慧計劃，您可以在我們的股東信中閱讀更多相關內容。

In conjunction with our emerging technology business, we're taking steps today, including investing in research and development to establish our presence in AI and adjacent markets, which we expect will create additional revenue opportunities over the long term.

結合我們的新興技術業務，我們今天正在採取措施，包括投資研發以確立我們在人工智慧和鄰近市場的地位，我們預計這將在長期內創造額外的收入機會。

We expect our costs to decline as we realize savings from owning our own sites and generating our own power.

我們預計，隨著我們透過擁有自己的站點和自己發電而實現節約，我們的成本將會下降。

And we will be laser focused on efficiency as we drive towards our goal of near zero cost of energy.

在努力實現接近零能源成本的目標的過程中，我們將高度重視效率。

I'd like to thank our employees for their hard work and our shareholders for their support.

我要感謝我們員工的辛勤工作和股東的支持。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Salman for some highlights from the quarter.

接下來，我將向薩爾曼介紹本季的一些亮點。

Salman.

薩勒曼。

Thank you, Fred.

謝謝你，弗雷德。

As Fred mentioned, we reported record results for the fourth quarter and full year.

正如弗雷德所提到的，我們報告了第四季度和全年創紀錄的業績。

You can see the details in our letter, but I wanted to highlight a few key metrics.

您可以在我們的信中看到詳細信息，但我想強調幾個關鍵指標。

In 2024, we strategically transitioned into a vertically integrated energy and digital infrastructure company by acquiring five data centers, which we own, increasing our percentage of owned capacity to approximately 70%.

2024 年，我們透過收購自有的五個資料中心，將自有容量百分比提升至約 70%，策略性地轉型為垂直整合的能源和數位基礎設施公司。

This is a critical step forward, achieving greater operational control and efficiency, as Fred mentioned.

正如弗雷德所說，這是向前邁出的關鍵一步，實現了更大的營運控制和效率。

All financial details will be available in our form 10-K to be filed timely with the SEC upon completion of the audit process.

所有財務細節將以我們的 10-K 表格形式提供，審計過程完成後將及時提交給美國證券交易委員會 (SEC)。

Now, let me provide financial highlights for the quarter.

現在，讓我提供本季的財務亮點。

Revenue increased 37% to $214.4 million in Q4 of 2024 from $156.8 million in Q4 of 2023.

2024 年第四季的營收從 2023 年第四季的 1.568 億美元成長 37% 至 2.144 億美元。

For 2024, revenues grew 69% to $656.4 million from $387.5 million in 2023.

預計 2024 年營收將從 2023 年的 3.875 億美元成長 69% 至 6.564 億美元。

Net income, on the other hand, increased 248% to $528.3 million or $0.0124 per diluted share in Q4 2024 from net income of $151.8 million or $0.66 per diluted share.

另一方面，淨收入從 2024 年第四季的 1.518 億美元淨收入或每股 0.66 美元成長 248% 至 5.283 億美元或每股 0.0124 美元。

Net income includes income on fair value of digital assets.

淨收入包括數位資產公允價值收入。

Full year net income grew 107% to $541 million compared to net income of $261.2 million in the prior year period.

全年淨收入達 5.41 億美元，較去年同期的 2.612 億美元淨收入成長 107%。

On the other hand, adjusted EBITDA increased to $794.4 million in Q4 of 2024.

另一方面，調整後的 EBITDA 在 2024 年第四季增加至 7.944 億美元。

As a reminder, this is a new benchmark for the industry, that increased from last year's or Q4 of 2023's $259 million.

提醒一下，這是該行業的新基準，高於去年或 2023 年第四季的 2.59 億美元。

Full year adjusted EBITDA was $1.2 billion compared to adjusted EBITDA of $417.1 million in the prior year period.

全年調整後 EBITDA 為 12 億美元，而去年同期調整後 EBITDA 為 4.171 億美元。

Finally, our direct energy cost for Bitcoin, as Fred mentioned, was $28,801 and cost per kilowatt-hour was $0.0309 for our own sites in 2024.

最後，正如 Fred 所提到的，2024 年我們自己的站點的比特幣直接能源成本為 28,801 美元，每千瓦時成本為 0.0309 美元。

Costs of revenue per petahash per day, excluding depreciation, continued to improve by 5% this quarter and 17% for the full year.

不包括折舊在內的每千兆赫每天的收入成本本季繼續改善了 5%，全年則改善了 17%。

With that, I'll turn it over to Brett from Cantor Fitzgerald to start our management interview.

下面，我將把話題交給 Cantor Fitzgerald 的 Brett，開始我們的管理階層訪談。

Brett.

布雷特。

Perfect.

完美的。

Thank you for having me here today and to have a good dialogue here.

感謝你們今天邀請我來這裡進行良好的對話。

Maybe to start, I know you guys talked a bit about AI and expectations to give us more detail on what your plans are for next year.

首先，我知道你們談論了一些關於人工智慧和期望，以便更詳細地介紹你們明年的計劃。

But a lot of your peers in the space are kind of looking to a co-location model where they're maybe spending CapEx to build the infrastructure and leasing it out to a tenant.

但該領域的許多同行都在尋求共置模式，他們可能花費資本支出來建立基礎設施，然後將其出租給租戶。

Is that something you are interested in or are you just interested in helping, call it balance the load at those locations?

這是您感興趣的事情嗎？

Oh, I think a couple of things.

哦，我想到了一些事情。

One is, while there is a huge demand from AI hyperscalers, or let's just say hyperscalers and AI HPC vendors, because there are some that -- where AI isn't the primary load for capacity today.

一是，雖然來自 AI 超大規模企業（或超大規模企業和 AI HPC 供應商）的需求龐大，但在某些企業中，AI 並不是當今容量的主要負載。

A lot of those sites that they're looking for are 500 megawatts and more.

他們尋找的許多站點的發電容量都在 500 兆瓦或以上。

I mean, there's been talk in the press recently about the real focus from the hyperscalers on these larger sites, and a number of our peers in the industry have even talked about this in their most recent earnings.

我的意思是，最近媒體一直在談論超大規模資料中心營運商對這些大型站點的真正關注，而且我們業內的許多同行甚至在他們最近的收益報告中談到了這一點。

We believe that as this buildout occurs, essentially, space becomes a commodity.

我們相信，隨著這種建設的進行，空間從本質上變成了一種商品。

And when you're providing power, ping, and rackspace, essentially, you really are a commodity.

當您提供電力、ping 和機架空間時，本質上您實際上就是一種商品。

And I think if you go back to the time in the first internet boom, you had the huge data center build out and then you had an overbuild of capacity.

我認為，如果回顧第一次網路熱潮時期，人們建造了龐大的資料中心，然後出現了容量過剩的情況。

And then as the next wave came, the second wave, companies like Digital Realty developed and others, who really became experts at this business.

然後，隨著第二波浪潮的到來，Digital Realty 等公司發展起來，其他公司真正成為了這個行業的專家。

We think with AI, the trend is slightly different.

我們認為，隨著人工智慧的發展，趨勢略有不同。

There's a need for large learning centers, but the capacity in those centers is shifting, and that now people are very much more focused on reasoning models and AI agents.

人們需要大型的學習中心，但這些中心的能力正在轉變，現在人們更加關注推理模型和人工智慧代理。

And this is going to shift the demand for what these sites do and how they're operated, and I think you'll continue to see in the press more and more people talking about how people are moving away from the need to scale already expensive training runs and moving more towards reasoning systems.

這將改變對這些網站的功能和運作方式的需求，我認為你會繼續在媒體上看到越來越多的人談論人們如何擺脫擴大已經昂貴的訓練運作的需要，轉向推理系統。

So we don't want to be chasing a ball that we think is moving very quickly and where investments are going to have to shift.

因此，我們不想追逐一個我們認為移動速度非常快、投資必須轉移的球。

The power needs per rack are hugely increasing with each generation of Blackwell, and it's going to be very hard for a lot of our peers I think to keep up.

每一代 Blackwell 產品的推出，每個機架的電力需求都在大幅增加，我認為，我們的許多同行都很難跟上這一步。

We believe the real profit in AI is going to come from inference.

我們相信人工智慧的真正利潤將來自於推理。

Inference is where you actually make money from AI.

推理才是真正利用人工智慧賺錢的地方。

Once you have a model, you load it into an inference site.

一旦您有了模型，您就可以將其載入到推理網站。

And that inference site typically is located in close proximity to a customer, not miles and miles away in the areas where you have low cost-energy.

而且該推理站點通常位於靠近客戶的地方，而不是位於距離客戶數英里且能源成本低廉的地區。

They need to be near where the customers are because the customers need low latency, the customers need rapid response, and the customers don't want the data to leave their control off them.

他們需要靠近客戶，因為客戶需要低延遲，客戶需要快速回應，並且客戶不希望資料脫離他們的控制。

And so small inference AI sites we believe are the future, and we want to be able to provide a complete solution to customers for inference AI at the edge, and that's something we're going to be very focused on, as opposed to just trying to scale and build very big sites where you're having to deal with customers with leases who are going to be putting in their own equipment.

因此，我們相信小型推理 AI 站點代表著未來，我們希望能夠為客戶提供邊緣推理 AI 的完整解決方案，這是我們將非常關注的事情，而不是僅僅試圖擴展和構建非常大的站點，在那裡你必須與那些將要安裝自己的設備的租賃客戶打交道。

Understood.

明白了。

Very helpful.

非常有幫助。

I feel like 2024, as you guys noted, was a transformational year going from a largely hosted Bitcoin miner to a vertically integrated miner.

正如你們所說，我覺得 2024 年是一個轉型之年，從主要託管的比特幣礦工轉變為垂直整合的礦工。

In your prepared remarks you outlined that you expect to accelerate that trend in 2025.

您在準備好的發言中表示，預計 2025 年這一趨勢將加速。

Should we expect you to go out and acquire as much power in 2025 as you did in 2024?

我們是否應該期望您在 2025 年獲得與 2024 年一樣多的權力？

And any thoughts on regions or locations of where you would look to do that?

對於您希望在哪些地區或地點實現這一目標，您有什麼想法嗎？

That's a great question.

這是一個很好的問題。

So we've stated previously that we expect to essentially have 50% of our capacity coming from international markets by 2028.

我們先前曾表示，預計到 2028 年，我們 50% 的產能將來自國際市場。

And we think there's an important difference in the US domestic market and the international market as regards how energy infrastructure and the energy industry operates.

我們認為，美國國內市場和國際市場在能源基礎設施和能源產業運作方式上存在重要差異。

The US is a highly fragmented market with lots of generators and distribution of energy, IPPs, all sorts of other providers.

美國是一個高度分散的市場，擁有眾多發電和能源分配企業、獨立電力供應商 (IPP) 以及各種其他供應商。

And it's a market where it's very fragmented.

這個市場非常分散。

The international markets are centrally controlled.

國際市場是集中控制的。

And if you look at what we did in UAE, which is by far one of our most successful projects when it comes to collaborating with an energy company, we went from contracts with the sovereign to a fully operational 240 megawatts of capacity across two sites in just under 13 months.

如果你看看我們在阿聯酋所做的事情，這是迄今為止我們與能源公司合作最成功的項目之一，我們從與主權國家簽訂合約到在兩個地點全面投入運營 240 兆瓦的容量，只用了不到 13 個月的時間。

That is what happens when you can partner with an energy company.

當您與能源公司合作時就會發生這種情況。

And we have begun speaking with energy companies internationally about the opportunity to not be vendors of power to us, but rather to be partners in joint ventures.

我們已經開始與國際能源公司洽談不再成為我們的電力供應商而是成為合資夥伴的機會。

Where energy price is less of an issue, you can view that as a capital contribution.

如果能源價格不是問題那麼大，你可以將其視為資本貢獻。

We're focused on building very large scale opportunities internationally, together with energy partners, where we can help them balance their grids, help provide them with curtailable load, so that as they begin to add things like hyperscaler sites and AI, they have the ability to provide curtailment for those sites, allowing those sites to use extra capacity on the grid.

我們專注於與能源合作夥伴一起在國際上建立非常大規模的機會，我們可以幫助他們平衡電網，幫助他們提供可削減的負載，以便當他們開始添加超大規模站點和人工智能等東西時，他們有能力為這些站點提供削減，允許這些站點使用電網上的額外容量。

You may have seen the Duke University study which recently came out, which said that the US had 78 gigawatts of additional capacity if the load on it was curtailed 5% of the time.

您可能已經看到了杜克大學最近發布的一項研究，該研究指出，如果將電力負載削減 5% 的時間，美國將擁有 78 千兆瓦的額外發電容量。

And so we believe that in centrally controlled energy markets, partnering with the energy provider and be in business with them, not being a customer of them, is the way those future markets will develop.

因此，我們相信，在集中控制的能源市場中，與能源供應商合作並與他們開展業務，而不是成為他們的客戶，是未來市場的發展方式。

In the US, however, we will continue to focus on acquiring energy assets, because we believe being our own generator of energy and getting as near to zero cost as possible.

然而，在美國，我們將繼續專注於收購能源資產，因為我們相信成為自己的能源生產商並盡可能接近零成本。

It is critical to making Bitcoin mining viable for the long term.

這對於確保比特幣挖礦的長期可行性至關重要。

We have another having opportunity coming in not very long time, and another one, four years after that.

不久後我們又迎來了一次機會，四年後又迎來了一次機會。

And grid energy is only going to get more expensive.

電網能源只會變得越來越昂貴。

And so miners will have to have extremely low-cost energy and be in control of their own energy assets, or as I said back in 2021, [it might] disrupt, you have to be a partner with the energy company and not a customer.

因此，礦工必須擁有極低成本的能源並控制自己的能源資產，或者正如我在 2021 年所說的那樣，[它可能會] 顛覆，你必須成為能源公司的合作夥伴而不是客戶。

So you'll see us grow internationally using one model, you'll see us grow domestically using another, but over time our sites will be split about 50-50 between the two markets.

因此，你會看到我們採用一種模式在國際上發展，你會看到我們採用另一種模式在國內發展，但隨著時間的推移，我們的網站將在兩個市場之間分配大約 50-50。

In terms of owning the energy assets, how does that compare to maybe just, I guess being a vendor instead of owning, in terms of scalability, like how quickly can you spin up exahash if you're going down the energy asset ownership route?

就擁有能源資產而言，與僅僅作為供應商而不是所有者相比，在可擴展性方面有什麼不同嗎？

Well, here's the interesting thing.

嗯，有趣的事情是這樣的。

If you look at this wind farm in Texas that we acquired, for example, that's a wind farm that sells energy today.

例如，如果你看看我們在德州收購的這個風電場，那是一個今天出售能源的風電場。

So we can scale into that site and still be generating cash flow from the site.

因此，我們可以擴展到該站點，並且仍能從該站點產生現金流。

And what we end up doing is optimizing every electron from that site.

我們最終要做的是優化網站的每個電子。

Wind and solar assets aren't able to sell 100% of their nameplate capacity 100% of the time.

風能和太陽能資產無法始終銷售其額定容量的 100%。

It's only during certain peak periods where they really can maximize profits, and these sites have to be able to be very profitable the few times that they're able to actually sell energy with high margin, because as you're familiar with the duck curve, there's negative pricing due to all the intermittent generation that exists in places like Texas during certain times of the day.

只有在某些高峰時段，他們才能真正實現利潤最大化，並且這些站點必須能夠在能夠實際以高利潤出售能源的少數時段獲得豐厚的利潤，因為正如您所熟悉的鴨子曲線，由於德克薩斯州等地在一天中的某些時段存在間歇性發電，因此存在負定價。

But if we instead can utilize every single electron that comes off that wind farm, we're able to maximize the profit per electron.

但如果我們能夠利用風電場產生的每一個電子，我們就能最大化每個電子的利潤。

And so it allows us to really be almost an energy trader where we're our own customer, but we can still remain as a vendor to the grid.

因此，它使我們真正成為一個能源貿易商，我們是我們自己的客戶，但我們仍然可以作為電網的供應商。

So we don't have to build a site and fully populate it; we can do it over time, and the strategy of having very low-cost energy, which wind is, there's almost near zero marginal cost to generate wind energy, allows you to, more importantly, take machines that have been running grid-connected and extend their lives by now moving them to this very low-cost energy site; which may not run full time.

因此我們不需要建立一個網站並完全填充它；我們可以隨著時間的推移做到這一點，而擁有非常低成本能源的策略，即風能，產生風能的邊際成本幾乎為零，更重要的是，你可以將已經併網運行的機器轉移到這個非常低成本的能源站點，從而延長它們的使用壽命；可能無法全程運行。

It may run four hours a day, it may run five hours a day.

它可能每天運行四個小時，也可能每天運行五個小時。

But because those machines are fully depreciated and your energy cost is significantly lower than grid attached, you're not able to continue to generate hash rate with a machine that's already depreciated at a much lower cost per exahash and extend the life.

但是因為這些機器已經完全折舊，而且你的能源成本明顯低於電網成本，所以你無法繼續使用已經以低得多的每艾哈希成本折舊的機器來產生哈希率並延長其使用壽命。

And we believe that lowers maintenance CapEx, which lowers your overall CapEx and makes you more CapEx efficient, which in the long term benefits shareholders because you're not having to spend as much capital to maintain your capacity; which means that you don't have to do things like take on necessarily excessive debt or issue excess amount of equity to be able to continue to grow and stay competitive.

我們相信，這可以降低維護資本支出，從而降低您的整體資本支出並提高您的資本支出效率，從長遠來看，這將使股東受益，因為您不必花費太多資本來維持您的產能；這意味著您不必承擔過多的債務或發行過多的股權，就能繼續成長並保持競爭力。

But I want to point out that historically, we have -- we used to be a 0% owned and operated company beginning of last year, and we exited the year at 70% owned and operated.

但我想指出的是，從歷史上看，去年年初，我們的自有和營運股權比例為 0%，而到年底，我們的自有和營運股權比例已達到 70%。

If you look at our matrix, we are very focused on value creation for our stockholders, which means that return on capital employed is an important matrix for us and our ROCE is more than 30% on an annualized basis versus our competition which is single digit.

如果你看一下我們的矩陣，我們非常注重為股東創造價值，這意味著資本使用回報率對我們來說是一個重要的矩陣，我們的 ROCE 以年率計算超過 30%，而我們的競爭對手只有個位數。

So, when you think about acquisitions, we've used historically to -- we've acquired these megawatts and electrons, and we've used our MARA playbook by improving the sites to our standards, improving the capacity.

因此，當您考慮收購時，我們過去曾使用過 - 我們已經獲得了這些兆瓦和電子，並且我們已經使用我們的 MARA 劇本通過按照我們的標準改進站點，提高容量。

So, for example, at Granbury, Texas, we increased our capacity by 200%, with the hash rate growing by 200% from Q1 to Q4.

例如，在德州格蘭伯里，我們的容量增加了 200%，哈希率從第一季到第四季增加了 200%。

In addition, we also reduced our cost per petahash per day by 45% on this.

此外，我們還將每 PB 每日成本降低了 45%。

So, all in all, while our eyes, as Fred mentioned, is towards the future, when you look back, we are very careful of the acquisitions that we do.

所以，總而言之，正如弗雷德所提到的，雖然我們的目光面向未來，但當你回顧過去時，我們會非常謹慎地進行收購。

They are mindful of the use of the capital, and also it actually unlocks more value for our stockholders ultimately.

他們留意資本的使用，而且它實際上最終為我們的股東釋放了更多價值。

Maybe just one more question on the power front before moving on.

在繼續之前，也許我只想再問一個關於電力方面的問題。

The 25-megawatt partnership with NGON.

與 NGON 建立 25 兆瓦合作夥伴關係。

I guess, how is that progressing and how should we think about this model scaling past the initial 25 megawatts?

我想問一下，進展如何？

At what point would you have enough information to make those decisions?

什麼時候您才有足夠的資訊來做這些決定？

Yeah.

是的。

So the 25 megawatts will be fully operational by the end of Q1 this year and it's progressing as planned with no hiccups, and we think that it's going to be a great success for us.

因此，25 兆瓦將在今年第一季末全面投入運營，並且一切進展順利，我們認為這對我們來說將是一個巨大的成功。

This has taught us that the ability to generate on-site is something very practical actually.

這讓我們知道，現場發電的能力其實是非常實用的。

And when you look at the challenge at the other end of the data center spectrum what the hyperscalers are looking at doing, is they're all looking at generating their own electricity.

當您看到資料中心另一端的挑戰時，超大規模資料中心營運商正在考慮如何自行發電。

And so there are opportunities for us to scale this along areas where you have access to natural gas in addition to flared gas.

因此，我們有機會在除了火炬氣之外還能獲得天然氣的地區擴大這一規模。

You have gas that's essentially stranded in pockets where you can deploy larger-scale generation and take advantage of generating your own energy and mining Bitcoin.

您的天然氣基本上被滯留在一些地方，您可以在那裡部署更大規模的發電，並利用這些能源來發電和挖掘比特幣。

At the same time, if you build those assets in places where you have AI optionality, they become even more attractive.

同時，如果你在具有人工智慧可選性的地方建立這些資產，它們會變得更具吸引力。

And so we believe in the long run, owning these types of energy assets are going to be a very valuable asset for the company as we continue to expand our footprint in Bitcoin mining, and at the same time as we begin to enter the world of AI.

因此，我們相信，從長遠來看，隨著我們繼續擴大在比特幣挖礦領域的足跡，並同時開始進入人工智慧領域，擁有這些類型的能源資產將成為公司的非常寶貴的資產。

Perfect.

完美的。

Maybe switching gears to Bitcoin a bit.

或許可以稍微轉向比特幣。

It's been a tough couple of days as there seems to be a bit of a risk off trade out there.

這幾天過得很艱難，因為外面似乎存在一些貿易風險。

I guess longer-term network usage and adoption and those fees are going to be more important, I guess.

我想，長期的網路使用和採用以及這些費用將會變得更加重要。

When you look at the Bitcoin ecosystem, what specific projects or use cases are you guys looking or tracking right now that kind of get you the most excited?

當你觀察比特幣生態系統時，你們正在關注或追蹤哪些特定的項目或用例讓你感到最興奮？

And then as a follow-up to that, Bitcoin has certainly proven to be cyclical, what part of the cycle do you think we're in?

然後作為後續，比特幣確實被證明是週期性的，您認為我們處於週期的哪個階段？

Well, I think Bitcoin has become highly correlated to equities.

嗯，我認為比特幣已經與股票高度相關。

The growth -- the rapid growth of the ETFs is certainly proof of that, and if you look at the outflows from the ETFs over the past few days, it clearly shows that it operates very similarly to the equities markets.

ETF 的快速成長無疑證明了這一點，如果你看看過去幾天 ETF 的資金流出情況，就會清楚地發現它的運作方式與股票市場非常相似。

And so when Bitcoin is correlated to equities, the ebbs and flows in and out of Bitcoin are going to be the same as the stock markets.

因此，當比特幣與股票相關時，比特幣的漲跌將與股票市場的漲跌相同。

And you have recessionary signals hitting now, you have yield curve inversion again, and you have a belief amongst consumers that inflation is running high still and that there's risk.

現在經濟衰退的訊號已經出現，殖利率曲線再次出現倒掛，消費者認為通膨仍然高漲且有風險。

If you talk to the average person on the street, things are still expensive out there.

如果你和街上的普通人交談，你會發現那裡的東西仍然很貴。

Prices haven't come down.

價格還沒下降。

And so I think you're starting to see more and more of a risk-off environment and that's an environment where Bitcoin typically sells off.

因此，我認為你開始看到越來越多的避險環境，而這正是比特幣通常被拋售的環境。

You're also seeing the dollar still very high.

你還會發現美元匯率仍然很高。

And Bitcoin and the dollar tend to move in opposite directions.

而且比特幣和美元的走勢往往相反。

And you're seeing gold really being a store of value that people are focused on.

你會發現黃金確實成為人們關注的保值手段。

One of the reasons is you have governments buying so much of that.

原因之一是政府購買了太多這類產品。

I think the catalysts now for Bitcoin are really going to be the -- you have 24 states in the US that have bills on the books to essentially create Bitcoin strategic reserves.

我認為現在比特幣的催化劑實際上是——美國有 24 個州已經出台法案，旨在建立比特幣戰略儲備。

If they do 2% of their assets in Bitcoin, that will have a significant impact on the market and the price of Bitcoin.

如果他們將 2% 的資產投入比特幣，這將對市場和比特幣的價格產生重大影響。

And if the federal government follows suit, then that would also have an impact, especially as other countries will continue to do the same.

如果聯邦政府效仿，那麼也會產生影響，特別是其他國家也會繼續效仿。

So I don't think the long-term trend is broken at all.

因此我認為長期趨勢根本沒有被打破。

I think we're still very much in the early stages of institutional adoption of Bitcoin.

我認為我們仍處於比特幣機構採用的早期階段。

What I think is exciting in the Bitcoin ecosystem today outside of Bitcoin as an investment instrument as an asset, are all the applications that are being built around side chains where you're starting to look at monetizing or rather tokenizing real-world assets, and you're starting to build use cases for Bitcoin that don't necessarily have to do with payments or investment assets.

我認為，當今比特幣生態系統中，除了比特幣作為資產投資工具之外，令人興奮的是所有圍繞側鏈構建的應用程序，你開始考慮將現實世界的資產貨幣化或標記化，你開始為比特幣構建用例，這些用例不一定與支付或投資資產有關。

So I think the exciting stuff is yet to come when it comes to use cases, but there's a lot of stuff certainly being built.

因此我認為，就用例而言，令人興奮的東西尚未出現，但肯定有很多東西正在構建中。

I think the world of Ethereum has certainly been suffering and it's become more and more of centralized -- its appearance is that more and more of a centralized network and under kind of central control.

我認為以太坊的世界確實遭受了苦難，它變得越來越集中——它的表現是越來越像一個集中式網絡，並且受到某種中央控制。

And I think that Bitcoin is viewed as the premier and most secure network that people want to build on.

我認為比特幣被視為人們想要建立的首要和最安全的網路。

And tools are being developed, and I think we'll see a lot of exciting stuff come even from the traditional TradFi over the next two years.

工具正在不斷開發中，我認為在未來兩年內，我們甚至會看到來自傳統 TradFi 的許多令人興奮的東西。

Yeah, I agree.

是的，我同意。

I think Bitcoin is where all the capital is and having the capital there makes it the most preferred destination to build on.

我認為比特幣是所有資本所在的地方，有了資本，比特幣就成為最受歡迎的目的地。

Yep.

是的。

As you look at your Bitcoin holdings, and I know over the last quarter, you guys made a meaningful evolution of your capital market strategy in issuing a couple of converts using those converts by Bitcoin.

當你查看自己持有的比特幣時，我知道，在上個季度，你們對資本市場策略進行了有意義的變革，利用比特幣發行了一些可兌換貨幣。

So maybe if you could just comment on that strategy, why you chose to issue the converts to buy Bitcoin maybe rather than go out and buy energy generation assets or additional miners or grow your infrastructure?

所以，如果您可以對該策略進行評論的話，為什麼您選擇發行可轉換債券來購買比特幣，而不是出去購買發電資產或額外的礦工或擴大基礎設施？

And is that a part of a longer capital markets strategy that we should think of?

這是我們應該考慮的長期資本市場策略的一部分嗎？

Is this something you would expect to do on a more frequent basis?

您是否希望更頻繁地做這件事？

Yeah.

是的。

We started buying Bitcoin to put on our balance sheet back in early 2021.

早在 2021 年初，我們就開始購買比特幣並將其納入我們的資產負債表。

And then we paused for a while because we were so busy and focused on growing our total exahash in our capacity.

然後我們暫停了一段時間，因為我們太忙了，要集中精力在我們能力範圍內增加總 exahash。

Last year, in the back half of the year, we had a theory that Bitcoin price was going to appreciate, especially as the trends for the election outcome started becoming more and more evident.

去年下半年，我們有一個理論，認為比特幣價格將會升值，尤其是當選舉結果的趨勢開始變得越來越明顯時。

And if an administration that had high degree of acceptance for Bitcoin would come in place, but Bitcoin price would appreciate.

如果一個對比特幣接受度較高的政府上台，比特幣的價格就會升值。

And so you have to look at what's the best use of your capital in that moment.

所以你必須考慮當下如何才能最好地利用你的資本。

Can you get a great return by buying Bitcoin at a lower price now and then being able to leverage it over the long term to generate yield?

您是否可以透過現在以較低的價格購買比特幣並在長期內利用它產生收益來獲得豐厚的回報？

Or you can invest that in an asset where the first Bitcoin that comes from that asset won't be produced for at least 12 or 18 months.

或者你可以將其投資於一項資產，而該資產產生的第一個比特幣至少在 12 或 18 個月內不會生產出來。

And so we chose to leverage converts as a way to buy Bitcoin.

因此，我們選擇利用轉換器作為購買比特幣的方式。

You take an appreciating asset and use that as the basis for those bonds, which is better than using converts necessarily for buying depreciating assets such as miners.

你採取一種升值資產並將其作為這些債券的基礎，這比使用可轉換債券購買諸如礦工之類的貶值資產要好。

Back in late 2021, we did a convert where we raised $850 million, which we invested in mining infrastructure.

早在 2021 年末，我們就進行了一次轉換，籌集了 8.5 億美元，投資於採礦基礎設施。

And we learned a lot during that process, and we were successful in buying back a fair amount of that at a discount, which created some great value for our shareholders.

我們在這個過程中學到了很多東西，並成功地以折扣價回購了相當數量的股票，為我們的股東創造了巨大的價值。

But we believe that convert that is best used for buying appreciating assets, and that's certainly what Michael Saylor has done and been successful with it.

但我們認為，轉換最適合用於購買升值資產，而這正是 Michael Saylor 所做並取得成功的事情。

And we'll see if it continues to be.

我們將拭目以待這種情況是否會持續下去。

He continues to buy a lot of Bitcoin and we're more opportunistic with how we do that so.

他繼續購買大量比特幣，而我們對此採取更投機的態度。

And just to add to that, Brett, this is a capital allocation question.

布雷特，補充一下，這是一個資本配置問題。

And as you can imagine as a large -- largest player in this space as a public company, we have multiple initiatives and we allocate capital to the best use of that dollar, and it made sense for us to go out and invest in Bitcoin.

你可以想像，作為一家上市公司，作為這個領域最大的參與者，我們有多個計劃，並分配資本以充分利用這些資金，因此，對於我們來說，投資比特幣是合理的。

And you look at the history, we've created almost 63% yield on that on a per share basis, which we're very happy about.

看看歷史，我們每股收益已接近 63%，對此我們感到非常高興。

Now, in terms of our sources of capital, as you can see, we've been diversifying our source of capital.

現在，就我們的資金來源而言，正如您所看到的，我們一直在實現資金來源多元化。

For example, last year, we -- the year before that, actually, in 2023, we had almost 100% reliance on ATMs.

例如，去年，實際上前年，也就是 2023 年，我們幾乎 100％ 依賴 ATM。

And last year we reduced that to under 45%, approximately 43% or so.

去年我們將這一比例降至 45% 以下，約 43% 左右。

And the rest of the capital was sourced towards from the converts and also loan against Bitcoin.

其餘資金則來自皈依者以及比特幣貸款。

And that we expect will give us a return better than sitting -- that cash sitting on the balance sheet or from a treasury management standpoint.

我們預計這將為我們帶來比放在資產負債表上或從財務管理的角度來看更好的回報。

No, certainly, I agree.

不，當然，我同意。

For this year, I think in '24, you guys grew your installed hash by 115%.

就今年而言，我想在 24 年，你們安裝的哈希值增長了 115%。

How should we be thinking about hash rate growth this year?

我們該如何看待今年的哈希率成長？

I know your hash -- network hash pulled back a little bit over the last couple of weeks, but it also has hit above 1,000 a few weeks ago.

我知道你的哈希值——網路哈希值在過去幾週有所回落，但幾週前也曾達到 1,000 以上。

Do you envision maintaining that, call it, 5.6% share you had in the fourth quarter or improving that as we progress throughout the year?

您是否預計會維持第四季度的 5.6% 份額，或隨著全年的發展而提高這一份額？

And would you want to give any targets to hash rate for '25?

您想為 25 年的哈希率設定什麼目標嗎？

I think I'm not going to give a hash rate target per se.

我認為我不會給出哈希率目標本身。

I think global hash rate is going to grow very dependent on the profitability of mining Bitcoin.

我認為全球哈希率的成長將很大程度上依賴比特幣挖礦的獲利能力。

One thing we saw recently is essentially BITMAIN creating US publicly-traded large-scale miners, like this company, Cango, who overnight had 32 exahash of capacity because BITMAIN essentially did a deal with them to take their older machines and have them take them over.

我們最近看到的一件事是，比特大陸基本上創建了美國上市的大型礦機公司，例如這家名為 Cango 的公司，它在一夜之間就擁有了 32 exahash 的容量，因為比特大陸基本上與他們達成了一項協議，接管他們的舊機器並讓他們接管。

And I think what we're seeing is now, especially in China, there is so much excess power in China and the cities in China have now been essentially given what appears to be the green light to use that excess power to mine Bitcoin as a way to generate revenues for those cities due to the condition of the economy.

我認為我們現在看到的情況是，特別是在中國，中國有如此多的過剩電力，由於經濟狀況良好，中國的城市現在基本上被允許使用這些過剩電力來挖掘比特幣，以此為這些城市創造收入。

And so I think you're starting to see Chinese miners wanting to raise capital quickly to be able to begin mining in China again.

因此，我認為你開始看到中國礦工希望迅速籌集資金，以便能夠再次在中國開始採礦。

So there are some people who believe that global hash rate will go to somewhere around 1.2 petahash or 1,200 exahash by the end of this year.

因此有些人認為，到今年年底，全球哈希率將達到 1.2 petahash 或 1,200 exahash 左右。

If Bitcoin price remains at its current levels, where it is today, I don't think we'll see that type of growth.

如果比特幣價格保持在目前的水平，我認為我們不會看到這種增長。

I think we'll see growth actually potentially slow down and maybe even stop on kind of that large scale.

我認為，我們實際上可能會看到成長放緩，甚至可能大規模停止。

So our intention is to continue to grow, and we're going to grow in an opportunistic manner.

因此，我們的目標是繼續發展，而且我們將以機會主義的方式發展。

We don't believe that it is prudent for us to grow no matter what the cost.

我們認為，無論付出什麼代價來發展都是不明智的。

We think that the -- right now, the marketplace for compute for Bitcoin miners is still very attractive from a price perspective.

我們認為，目前，從價格角度來看，比特幣礦工的計算市場仍然非常有吸引力。

But we also have the advantage that this company that we co-founded a few years ago, Auradine, has very successfully built and designed mining silicon at 3-nanometer, which is beginning to compete very effectively against some of the best mining hardware in the world.

但我們還有一個優勢，那就是我們幾年前共同創立的這家公司 Auradine 已經非常成功地建造和設計了 3 奈米挖礦矽片，它開始與世界上一些最好的挖礦硬體展開非常有效的競爭。

And we have the unique ability amongst our peers currently, at least some of them, to be able to build our own miners to our own form factors specific to our own immersion technology, which allows us to create a performance curve on those miners that's highly optimized.

目前，我們在同行中擁有獨特的能力，至少在部分同行中如此，我們能夠根據我們自己的浸入式技術構建我們自己的礦機，這使我們能夠在這些礦機上創建高度優化的性能曲線。

And so we are going to depend less and less on the Chinese mining manufacturers because there's also a risk that you have to look at.

因此，我們將越來越少依賴中國礦業製造商，因為仍有需要考慮的風險。

The Trump administration is moving quite quickly to begin to apply tariffs to Chinese manufactured goods.

川普政府正迅速採取行動，開始對中國製成品徵收關稅。

They recently announced what I would call the Reverse CFIUS, which is essentially looking at companies in the US whose beneficial owners are Chinese nationals or Chinese national entities.

他們最近宣布了我所說的「反向 CFIUS」計劃，該計劃主要是審查那些實際所有者是中國公民或中國國家實體的美國公司。

And if that's the case, and as this potential trade war heats up, then A, the cost of these miners may be more difficult to stomach, especially coming from China, and we've recently seen some issues where some miners were being stopped in customs.

如果情況確實如此，而隨著這場潛在的貿易戰升溫，那麼，這些礦工的成本可能更難以承受，尤其是來自中國的礦工，我們最近看到一些礦工在海關被攔截的問題。

And so I think it's really important during the Bitcoin mining business today to make sure your supply chains have some alternative sources.

因此我認為，在當今的比特幣挖礦業務中，確保供應鏈有一些替代來源非常重要。

And that's one of the reasons why we're so glad we made this investment in Auradine because it gives us the ability to really scale our supply quite flexibly.

這就是我們很高興投資 Auradine 的原因之一，因為它使我們能夠非常靈活地擴大供應規模。

That being said, it's also a question of power and sights.

話雖如此，這也是一個力量和眼光的問題。

And I think we'll continue to be very opportunistic, and we prefer to grow now at a rate where we're being much more capital efficient as opposed to necessarily just growing to hit a number.

我認為我們將繼續保持機會主義的心態，我們更傾向於以資本效率更高的速度成長，而不是只為了達到某個數字而成長。

We grew very successfully to be the biggest in the industry, but we're still not the most efficient in the industry.

我們非常成功地發展成為業內最大的企業，但我們仍然不是業內最有效率的企業。

And I believe that capital efficiency almost starts becoming more important than scale and being the biggest.

我相信，資本效率幾乎開始變得比規模和最大更重要。

And so our focus is starting to shift towards things like operating at places like wind farms and other sites where we can use older generation technology, spend less on CapEx, have lower operating costs, have lower energy costs, and make much more efficient use of our capital, because this market is only going to get more competitive over time.

因此，我們的重點開始轉向在風電場等場所運營，我們可以使用老一代技術，減少資本支出，降低營運成本，降低能源成本，並更有效地利用我們的資本，因為這個市場隨著時間的推移只會變得更加具有競爭力。

It's not going to get more profitable necessarily.

它不一定會變得更加有利可圖。

And so I think we all need to be focused on being really efficient users of capital and really efficient operators.

因此我認為我們都需要致力於成為真正有效率的資本使用者和真正有效率的營運者。

And we all have to move towards getting close to near-zero cost energy because we are so dependent otherwise on the price of Bitcoin going up and transaction fees going up, and that's a bit of hopeium.

我們都必須朝著接近零成本能源的方向努力，因為否則我們就會非常依賴比特幣價格的上漲和交易費用的上漲，而這有點希望。

I'm an optimist around the price of Bitcoin, I think it will continue to go up, but you can't build a business based on that hope.

我對比特幣的價格持樂觀態度，我認為它會繼續上漲，但你不能基於這種希望來建立企業。

You have to build a business based on being the most efficient operator.

你必須以最高效的營運為基礎來打造企業。

And we now have the scale where we're now beginning to be able to be very efficient at what we do from both a capital and an operating perspective.

現在，我們已經達到了一定的規模，從資本和營運兩個角度，我們都能夠非常有效率地開展工作。

No, I think that's very well said.

不，我認為說得很好。

On the -- I guess the energy front plus, maybe geopolitical front, do you think there's something that this administration or even future administrations can do to help make the industry more competitive when it comes to energy costs, given miners do help balance the load, they are a net benefit to the grid.

在——我想是在能源方面，再加上地緣政治方面，您認為本屆政府或甚至未來的政府可以做些什麼來幫助該行業在能源成本方面更具競爭力，考慮到礦工確實有助於平衡負荷，它們對電網來說是淨收益。

Do you think there's something that could be done to ultimately help lower the energy costs for miners?

您認為有什麼辦法可以最終幫助降低礦工的能源成本嗎？

I think what you're going to see is, you have two challenges in the US, one is transmission capacity and the other is permitting of additional capacity.

我認為你會看到，美國面臨兩大挑戰，一是輸電能力，二是允許增加容量。

I think if you remove the limitations from permitting of additional capacity and you allow Bitcoin miners and AI operators to operate behind the meter freely, then what you'll see is the commercial markets, the private markets and commercial markets, go in and do upgrades to the grid in this country, which the public utilities can't do.

我認為，如果取消對額外容量的許可限制，並允許比特幣礦工和人工智慧營運商自由地在電錶後運營，那麼你就會看到商業市場、私人市場和商業市場進入這個國家並對電網進行升級，而這是公共事業單位無法做到的。

And I think it's -- I'm not saying privatize energy, but what I think that you'll see this administration being focused on doing is how do we remove the friction in increasing energy generation, transmission, and making consumption more efficient?

我認為——我並不是說要將能源私有化，但我認為你會看到本屆政府將重點關注如何消除在增加能源生產和輸送以及提高能源消費效率方面的摩擦？

And that's all you need to do to make Bitcoin miners more successful.

這就是讓比特幣礦工更加成功所需要做的一切。

We have today, if you look at global hash rate, publicly traded miners make up roughly 35% of global hash rate, and the US arguably has about 40% of the global hash rates within its borders.

今天，如果你看看全球哈希率，你會發現上市礦工約佔全球哈希率的 35%，而美國境內可以說擁有全球哈希率的 40% 左右。

The US could have much more if energy generators had an incentive to work with them.

如果能源生產商有動力與他們合作，美國就可以獲得更多。

And that's a business decision, that's not the government mandating anything.

這是商業決定，不是政府強制要求的。

But if the government would remove the friction from building new capacity from Bitcoin miners acquiring capacity, operating behind the meter, same thing for the AI operators, I think you would see things take off, because what is good for the AI industry in regards to energy is very good for Bitcoin.

但是，如果政府能夠消除比特幣礦工獲取產能、在電錶後運營過程中建設新產能的阻力，對人工智能運營商也是如此，我認為你會看到事情起飛，因為對人工智能行業在能源方面有利的事情對比特幣也非常有利。

Perfect.

完美的。

I think that's a great place to leave it.

我認為把它留在那裡是個好地方。

Rob, maybe back to you for some of the retail questions.

羅布，也許我會再問你一些零售方面的問題。

Thanks, Brett.

謝謝，布雷特。

Yes, we really appreciate all the questions.

是的，我們非常感謝大家提出的問題。

Let's turn now to some questions from our retail investors.

現在我們來回答一下散戶投資者的一些問題。

The first question we got was, Fred, with the increasing competition in the crypto mining sector and potential regulatory changes in the US and abroad, what strategies is MARA implementing to sustain profitability and ensure long-term growth?

我們收到的第一個問題是，Fred，隨著加密採礦領域競爭日益激烈以及美國和國外潛在的監管變化，MARA 實施了哪些策略來維持獲利能力並確保長期成長？

And what is the end goal for us?

我們的最終目標是什麼？

Are we going to be a store value company like MicroStrategy or Strategy or continue to mine Bitcoin?

我們是要成為像 MicroStrategy 或 Strategy 這樣的儲存價值公司，還是繼續挖掘比特幣？

You know, if you think about MARA, we are an energy transformation company.

你知道，如果你想想 MARA，我們是一家能源轉型公司。

We're in the business of turning energy into digital value.

我們的業務是將能源轉化為數位價值。

So we call it digital energy.

所以我們稱之為數位能源。

And if you look across the spectrum of what we're doing is we're coming more and more vertically integrated from energy all the way to the holding of the actual asset and maximizing every piece of the value stack, if you would, and maximizing every share of wallet in the process that we can by becoming one of the top operators.

如果你縱觀我們所做的事情，你會發現我們正在從能源一直到實際資產的持有進行越來越多的垂直整合，並且最大化價值堆疊的每一部分，如果你願意的話，最大化每一部分錢包份額，讓我們成為頂級運營商之一。

Bitcoin mining is a zero-sum game.

比特幣挖礦是一場零和遊戲。

If you're the most efficient operator, the lowest cost operator, you will always be able to operate regardless of cost unless there is a major crisis.

如果你是最高效的運營商、成本最低的運營商，那麼除非出現重大危機，否則你將始終能夠不計成本地運營。

But you will always be able to operate.

但你始終能夠進行操作。

And when you have those types of cash flows, if you're an efficient deployer of capital, you can use your capital wisely, then you can grow and actually build significant shareholder value with less and less dilution over time.

當您擁有這些類型的現金流時，如果您是資本的有效部署者，您可以明智地使用您的資本，那麼您就可以隨著時間的推移發展並實際創造顯著的股東價值，而稀釋作用會越來越小。

And I think the Bitcoin mining business needs to become more capital efficient.

我認為比特幣挖礦業務需要提高資本效率。

And really, the business needs to mature into the scale that the large miners have received.

事實上，該業務需要成熟到與大型礦工一樣的規模。

I think there's going to be a lot of consolidation over the coming years as most of the small miners just won't be able to operate efficiently.

我認為未來幾年將會出現大量整合，因為大多數小型礦商將無法有效運作。

Where we're really headed is in leveraging the low-cost energy that we're in the process of acquiring or uses in the AI world, and to develop technologies that support inference AI.

我們真正的目標是利用我們正在獲取或在人工智慧世界中使用的低成本能源，並開發支援推理人工智慧的技術。

Our liquid cooling technology is one of the best in the world, especially for inference at the edge.

我們的液體冷卻技術是世界上最好的技術之一，特別是在邊緣推理方面。

And I think if you were to see some of the solutions using our 2PIC technology for small scale inference at the edge, you'd realize that you now make deploying modular small data centers very easy where you can put them inside buildings where you don't need these massive cores and things like that, and they generate no noise.

我認為，如果您看到一些使用我們的 2PIC 技術進行邊緣小規模推理的解決方案，您就會意識到，現在可以非常輕鬆地部署模組化小型資料中心，您可以將它們放置在建築物內，這樣就不需要這些龐大的核心和類似的東西，而且它們不會產生噪音。

And so we are becoming more and more a technology company and more and more of a solutions company.

因此，我們越來越成為一家科技公司和一家解決方案公司。

And I believe you'll start seeing us becoming more tightly integrated with data center operators at both a hardware level, a software level, and a services level.

我相信您將看到我們與資料中心營運商在硬體層面、軟體層面和服務層面更加緊密地結合。

And we'll continue to grow Bitcoin mining and that technology together, and they'll provide a very well-balanced business.

我們將繼續共同發展比特幣挖礦和該技術，它們將帶來非常均衡的業務。

Terrific.

了不起。

Our next question, Fred and Salman, that we received is, will there be any potential government partnerships or sponsorships in the near future?

弗雷德和薩爾曼，我們收到的下一個問題是，在不久的將來是否會有任何潛在的政府合作或贊助？

You know, the -- I think what you'll see is in Bitcoin mining specifically, government partnerships will be more of an international occurrence.

你知道，我認為你會看到，特別是在比特幣挖礦領域，政府合作將更加國際化。

I think domestically, it will be with utilities and the actual power generators.

我認為在國內，它將與公用事業和實際的發電機有關。

I think what the government really wants to do is essentially try and remove the friction for Bitcoin miners and AI developers.

我認為政府真正想要做的是嘗試消除比特幣礦工和人工智慧開發者之間的摩擦。

And they'll start putting together programs to do that across the country, I think, especially as it relates to power generation.

我認為，他們將開始製定在全國範圍內實施這項計劃，特別是與發電相關的計劃。

And we're super excited about that.

我們對此感到非常興奮。

Now, as I mentioned earlier, 24 states in the US have said they're going to -- that they have Bitcoin strategic reserve measures or initiatives on their ballots.

現在，正如我之前提到的，美國 24 個州已經表示他們將在選票上提出比特幣戰略儲備措施或倡議。

There's a initiative in the Senate to do the same thing for the US.

參議院有一項倡議，希望為美國做同樣的事情。

Other countries are starting to look at that.

其他國家也開始關注這個問題。

And so then you start looking at, do governments want to go into partnerships with large holders of Bitcoin and do things?

那你開始考慮，政府是否願意與比特幣的大持有者建立合作關係並採取行動？

That's a totally separate area and I think that's an area that will be explored over the next two years most probably.

這是一個完全獨立的領域，我認為很可能在未來兩年內會對此進行探索。

Great.

偉大的。

And our last question ties into that one.

我們的最後一個問題與此相關。

What role does MARA expect to have with the Trump administration and their stated intention to ensure that Bitcoin is made in America?

MARA 希望在川普政府及其確保比特幣在美國製造的明確意圖中扮演什麼角色？

Are we working directly with the administration?

我們直接與政府合作嗎？

Well, I think all of the large Bitcoin miners are working with the administration in some shape, form, or manner.

嗯，我認為所有大型比特幣礦工都在以某種形式與政府合作。

We're very focused, obviously, in driving support for Auradine miners made in USA.

顯然，我們非常注重推動對美國製造的 Auradine 礦機的支援。

We're very focused on mining blocks in USA.

我們非常關注美國的採礦區塊。

We stamp every block that MARA pool makes with made in USA.

我們為 MARA 泳池生產的每一個泳池磚塊都打上「美國製造」的印記。

And we're trying to really build out block space within the US because we believe it's of strategic importance to the United States, not just having a strategic reserve of Bitcoin, but also having a predominant amount of block space such that the US can project power and defend the Bitcoin blockchain regardless of what other nations do.

我們正在嘗試在美國境內建立區塊空間，因為我們相信這對美國具有戰略重要性，不僅擁有比特幣的戰略儲備，還擁有主導的區塊空間，這樣無論其他國家做什麼，美國都可以投射力量並捍衛比特幣區塊鏈。

So we'll collaborate with the government both the executive branch and the legislative branch at the federal level, at the state level, to make sure that what's best for the industry gets put forth and executed.

因此，我們將與聯邦政府和州政府的行政部門和立法部門合作，確保提出並執行對產業最有利的政策。

Terrific.

了不起。

Well, that's all the time we have for today.

好的，今天我們的時間就這麼多。

Thanks, everyone, for joining us.

感謝大家加入我們。

If you have any questions that were not answered during today's call, please feel free to contact our Investor Relations team at ir@mara.com. And with that, I'll turn it back to you, operator.

如果您有任何在今天的電話會議中未得到解答的問題，請隨時聯絡我們的投資者關係團隊 ir@mara.com。說完這些，我就把麥克風轉回給你，接線生。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And with that, we conclude today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

All parties may now disconnect.

各方現在都可以斷開連線。

Have a great day.

祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you.

謝謝。