羅技 (LOGI) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and good afternoon. Welcome to Logitech's video call to discuss our financial results for the fourth quarter and full fiscal year 2024. Joining us today are Hanneke Faber, our CEO; and Chuck Boynton, our CFO. During this call, we will make forward-looking statements, including with respect to future operating results under the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. We're making these statements based on our views only as of today. Our actual results could differ materially, and we undertake no obligation to update or revise any of these statements.

早安，下午好。歡迎參加羅技的視訊通話，討論我們第四季度和 2024 年整個財年的財務業績。和我們的財務長 Chuck Boynton。在本次電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性聲明，包括關於 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港下的未來經營業績的聲明。我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異，我們不承擔更新或修改任何這些聲明的義務。

We will also discuss non-GAAP financial results. You can find a reconciliation between GAAP and non-GAAP results and information about our use of non-GAAP measures and factors that could impact our financial results and forward-looking statements in our press release and in our filings with the SEC. These materials as well as the shareholder letter and a webcast of this call are all available at the Investor Relations page of our website. We encourage you to review these materials carefully. Unless noted otherwise, comparisons between periods are year-over-year and in constant currency in net sales. This call is being recorded and will be available for a replay on our website.

我們也將討論非公認會計準則財務表現。您可以在我們的新聞稿和向 SEC 提交的文件中找到 GAAP 和非 GAAP 業績之間的調整表，以及有關我們使用非 GAAP 衡量標準以及可能影響我們財務業績和前瞻性陳述的因素的資訊。這些資料以及股東信函和本次電話會議的網路廣播均可在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上取得。我們鼓勵您仔細查看這些資料。除非另有說明，各期間之間的比較是按年比較，並以固定貨幣淨銷售額計算。此通話正在錄音，並將在我們的網站上重播。

I will now turn the call over to Hanneke.

我現在將把電話轉給漢內克。

Thank you, Nate, and welcome, everyone. In today's call, we're going to cover 3 items, all of which are detailed in the shareholder letter that we released with our earnings materials. First, Chuck will provide the highlights of our fourth quarter and our full year results. I'll then briefly touch on my view of our current assets, the secular trends driving the business and strategic decisions that we're implementing. And I'm going to close with our financial outlook.

謝謝內特，歡迎大家。在今天的電話會議中，我們將討論 3 個項目，所有這些都在我們隨盈利材料發布的股東信中詳細介紹。首先，查克將介紹我們第四季和全年業績的亮點。然後，我將簡要地談談我對我們當前資產、推動業務的長期趨勢以及我們正在實施的策略決策的看法。最後我將介紹我們的財務前景。

Let me start, though, by saying how pleased I am about the execution of our teams in the fourth quarter. We returned to top line growth. We executed at a very high level with both gross and operating margins up year-over-year. And before Chuck dives into the numbers, I want to thank him for an impactful tenure here at Logitech. He's built a highly capable finance team, and he has helped drive the consistent progress we've seen in the business over the last year. He's going to be missed, and we wish him all the best. And now Chuck, over to you.

不過，首先我要說的是，我對我們團隊第四季的執行力感到非常高興。我們恢復了營收成長。我們的執行水準非常高，毛利率和營業利潤率均逐年上升。在查克深入研究這些數字之前，我要感謝他在羅技任職期間所做出的富有影響力的貢獻。他建立了一支高素質的財務團隊，並幫助推動了我們在過去一年中看到的業務持續進步。我們會想念他的，我們祝他一切順利。現在查克，交給你了。

Well, thank you, Hanneke, and thank you all for joining us on the call today. I am so proud of the way our employees finished the year. In addition to further enhancing the value chain, we continued our cost reductions and promotional discipline. These factors all drove better-than-expected fourth quarter results. The detailed financial results can be found in the press release and in the shareholder letter, but I'd like to call your attention to 3 metrics.

好的，謝謝你，漢內克，也謝謝大家今天加入我們的電話會議。我為我們的員工完成這一年的方式感到非常自豪。除了進一步增強價值鏈外，我們還持續降低成本並加強促銷紀律。這些因素都推動了第四季業績優於預期。詳細的財務表現可以在新聞稿和股東信中找到，但我想提請您注意 3 個指標。

First, we are pleased to see Q4 revenue return to growth at plus 5%. However, please note that channel inventory reduction in Q4 was lower than last year's reduction. When normalized for the change in channel inventory, net sales growth was closer to plus 3%. Second, our Q4 non-GAAP gross margin of 43.6% was better than expected due to lower product costs, lower inventory reserves and reduced promotional activities. For the year, we achieved non-GAAP gross margin of 41.8%, a tremendous accomplishment by the team and comfortably within the range of our operating model.

首先，我們很高興看到第四季營收恢復成長 5% 以上。但請注意，第四季通路庫存減少量低於去年同期的減少量。當通路庫存變化標準化後，淨銷售額成長接近 3%。其次，由於產品成本降低、庫存儲備減少和促銷活動減少，我們第四季非 GAAP 毛利率為 43.6%，優於預期。今年，我們實現了 41.8% 的非 GAAP 毛利率，這是團隊的巨大成就，並且完全在我們營運模式的範圍內。

And finally, the business continues to generate impressive cash flow. In Q4, we delivered $239 million of operating cash flow, totaling over $1.1 billion for the year. We returned almost $700 million to our shareholders and ended the year with a fortress balance sheet.

最後，該業務繼續產生可觀的現金流。第四季度，我們實現了 2.39 億美元的營運現金流，全年總計超過 11 億美元。我們向股東返還了近 7 億美元，並以堅實的資產負債表結束了這一年。

Thank you, Hanneke, and thank you, Logitech, for the opportunity to serve. It's been a real pleasure, and I will miss everyone. With that, I'll turn it back over to Hanneke. Hanneke?

謝謝漢內克，也謝謝羅技，給我服務的機會。這真的很高興，我會想念大家的。有了這個，我會把它轉回漢內克。漢內克？

Thanks, Chuck. So in my first 100 days, I've met with hundreds of employees, customers, partners and shareholders. And their passion and excitement about Logitech's future as well as their healthy dissatisfaction with the levels of top line growth of the last 2 years were palpable. And these interactions have been super helpful as I shape the plans for Logitech's future. Everything starts with our mission.

謝謝，查克。因此，在我上任的前 100 天裡，我會見了數百名員工、客戶、合作夥伴和股東。他們對羅技未來的熱情和興奮以及對過去兩年收入成長水準的健康不滿是顯而易見的。當我制定羅技的未來計畫時，這些互動非常有幫助。一切都始於我們的使命。

Logitech extends human potential in work and play. Extending human potential is exciting. It means helping people be more productive, perform better, win that game and connect more easily, all in ways that are more sustainable and more equitable. We will pursue this mission with a terrific set of existing assets that we build from. We have world-class design and engineering expertise. We have a strong brand with high levels of brand awareness and leading market share positions in key product categories. We have truly global go-to-market capabilities in more than 100 countries. And we're an operations powering house with a relentless focus on cost, inventory, quality and customer service.

羅技拓展了人類在工作和娛樂中的潛力。擴展人類的潛力是令人興奮的。這意味著幫助人們提高生產力、表現更好、贏得比賽並更輕鬆地聯繫，所有這些都以更永續和更公平的方式進行。我們將利用我們所建立的一系列出色的現有資產來實現這項使命。我們擁有世界一流的設計和工程專業知識。我們擁有強大的品牌知名度，在關鍵產品類別中擁有領先的市場份額。我們在 100 多個國家/地區擁有真正的全球市場進入能力。我們是一家營運動力公司，始終專注於成本、庫存、品質和客戶服務。

Now as we look forward, we see 5 external trends that we believe will affect our business. First, new ways of working. We're splitting time between working at the office and home and on the go. It's here to stay, highlighting the need for multiple workspaces and the need for more video collaboration.

現在，展望未來，我們看到了 5 個我們認為會影響我們業務的外部趨勢。第一，新的工作方式。我們將時間分配在辦公室、家裡和旅途中。它會繼續存在，強調對多個工作空間的需求以及對更多視訊協作的需求。

Second, gaming has gone mainstream. Nearly every age, gender and demographic is gaming today, providing an opportunity for us to provide more tools to a wider community of gamers.

其次，遊戲已經成為主流。如今，幾乎所有年齡、性別和人群都在玩遊戲，這為我們提供了向更廣泛的遊戲玩家社群提供更多工具的機會。

Third, we're in the early innings of a major AI transformation. And Logitech will be and already is an important part of the emerging AI ecosystem.

第三，我們正處於人工智慧重大變革的早期階段。羅技將並且已經是新興人工智慧生態系統的重要組成部分。

Fourth, climate change is impacting every country, every business and every society. Logitech intends to continue to be a leader for sustainability and tech.

第四，氣候變遷正在影響每個國家、每個企業、每個社會。羅技打算繼續成為永續發展和技術領域的領導者。

And the final trend is the increasing importance of trust. In a world where trust in government, the media, science and in business is at an all-time low, Logitech delivers trusted experiences. With assets like our well-established Swiss brand and high privacy and security standards, we are very well positioned.

最後的趨勢是信任的重要性日益增加。在一個對政府、媒體、科學和商業的信任度處於歷史最低水平的世界中，羅技提供值得信賴的體驗。憑藉我們久負盛名的瑞士品牌等資產以及高隱私和安全標準，我們處於非常有利的地位。

I've come to really like this combination of strong assets and long-term secular tailwinds. To take advantage of them, we're in the process of implementing a number of new strategic decisions to accelerate profitable growth, where to play and how to win choices, if you will.

我真的很喜歡這種強大的資產和長期的長期順風的結合。為了利用它們，我們正在實施一些新的策略決策，以加速獲利成長、在哪裡發揮作用以及如何贏得選擇（如果您願意的話）。

Let me share those briefly with you. First, work and play. We will continue to innovate and grow in the core categories that we compete in today, personal workspace, video collaboration and gaming. But there is more room to grow. Today, in work, we're focused on office workers. Most people in the world don't sit in offices every day. They work in retail, in education, in health care, in manufacturing and construction and other places.

讓我與您簡要分享。首先，工作和娛樂。我們將繼續在我們當今競爭的核心類別、個人工作空間、視訊協作和遊戲領域進行創新和發展。但還有更多的成長空間。今天，在工作中，我們關注的是辦公室職員。世界上大多數人並不是每天都坐在辦公室裡。他們在零售、教育、醫療保健、製造和建築等領域工作。

And in play, we are mainly focused on PC gaming today. There are other play opportunities, console and mobile and even beyond what I call active play. Expanding our definitions of work and play significantly broadens our total addressable markets.

在遊戲方面，我們今天主要關注電腦遊戲。還有其他的遊戲機會，遊戲機和行動設備，甚至超越了我所說的主動遊戲。擴大我們對工作和娛樂的定義可以顯著擴大我們的潛在市場總量。

Second, we will create competitive advantage through a focus on design-led, software-enabled hardware. Those words are carefully chosen. We differentiate our hardware with world-class design and with advanced software insight.

其次，我們將透過專注於設計主導、軟體支援的硬體來創造競爭優勢。這些字詞是經過精心挑選的。我們憑藉世界一流的設計和先進的軟體洞察力使我們的硬體脫穎而出。

Third, we will double down on the B2B, the business-to-business channel. Our B2B business is twice as big as it was in 2019, but I would still call us relatively young in this channel. Further strengthening our B2B capabilities and domain expertise offers significant opportunities for future growth.

第三，我們將加倍投入B2B（企業對企業）通路。我們的 B2B 業務規模是 2019 年的兩倍，但我仍然認為我們在這個管道中相對年輕。進一步加強我們的 B2B 能力和領域專業知識為未來的成長提供了重要的機會。

Fourth, we will build out our already strong global presence. We will reapply best practices to drive a more consistent share of wallet across our developed markets and further extend our presence in emerging markets. Combined, these geographic opportunities represent more than $1 billion of incremental growth.

第四，我們將擴大我們業已強大的全球影響力。我們將重新應用最佳實踐，以推動已開發市場的錢包份額更加一致，並進一步擴大我們在新興市場的影響力。這些地理機會加起來代表了超過 10 億美元的增量成長。

And fifth, we will focus on building the Logitech brands and take it from good to truly iconic, that single Logitech brand. That's where to play.

第五，我們將專注於打造羅技品牌，並將其從良好的品牌轉變為真正標誌性的單一羅技品牌。那就是玩的地方。

Now how will we win? We will relentlessly drive product superiority through innovation. We will build on our reputation for operational excellence and discipline, and we will continue our industry-leading work to reduce carbon emissions across our value chain.

現在我們將如何獲勝？我們將透過創新不斷推動產品優勢。我們將建立卓越營運和紀律的聲譽，並將繼續進行業界領先的工作，減少整個價值鏈的碳排放。

Now let me turn to the outlook and what this set of choices means for the near-term and longer-term profile of our business. Our first priority is to return the business to annualized growth in fiscal '25. We are targeting low single-digit growth with strong operating margins. Our goal in the midterm is to return organic growth to mid-single digits. Potential acquisitions would be incremental to that. We believe this growth, supported by non-GAAP gross margins in the 39% to 44% range and non-GAAP operating margins of 14% to 17%, represents an attractive investment profile.

現在讓我談談前景以及這一系列選擇對我們業務的近期和長期狀況意味著什麼。我們的首要任務是讓業務在 25 財年恢復年化成長。我們的目標是實現低個位數成長和強勁的營業利潤率。我們的中期目標是將有機成長恢復到中個位數。潛在的收購將是增量的。我們認為，在 39% 至 44% 的非 GAAP 毛利率和 14% 至 17% 的非 GAAP 營業利潤率的支持下，這一增長代表了一個有吸引力的投資狀況。

In summary, the path ahead builds on Logitech's impressive set of strengths, takes advantage of secular trends, and makes a number of clear strategic choices going forward. With that combination, I'm confident that Logitech's future is bright and its best days are still ahead.

總之，未來的道路建立在羅技令人印象深刻的一系列優勢之上，利用長期趨勢，並做出一些明確的未來策略選擇。有了這種結合，我相信羅技的未來是光明的，最好的日子還在前面。

Thank you. Before we now move to Q&A, one final administrative comment. We spoke last quarter about our plans to host an Analyst and Investor Day in May. With Chuck moving on to a new opportunity, we thought it prudent to modify our plans. We will host a more traditional AID later in the year with the exact timing to follow. And with that, Nate, let's move to Q&A.

謝謝。在我們開始問答之前，請先發表最後的行政評論。上個季度我們談到了在五月舉辦分析師和投資者日的計劃。隨著查克轉向新的機會，我們認為修改我們的計劃是明智的。我們將在今年稍後舉辦更傳統的援助活動，具體時間如下。接下來，內特，讓我們進入問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today will be from Alex Duval at Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）今天我們的第一個問題來自高盛的 Alex Duval。

Many thanks, Chuck, for everything. Greatly appreciated. My first question is just on gross margin. Obviously, you had a very strong gross margin in the quarter. I wondered if you could talk about how sustainable that is. And also, to what degree was lower promotional spend because of a stronger demand environment? In recent holiday windows, consumers prefer to shop during the promotional days. So just curious how the trend was there?

非常感謝，查克，所做的一切。不勝感激。我的第一個問題是關於毛利率。顯然，該季度的毛利率非常高。我想知道你是否可以談談它的可持續性。此外，由於需求環境強勁，促銷支出減少到什麼程度？最近的假期窗口，消費者更喜歡在促銷日購物。所以只是好奇趨勢如何？

And secondly, on video collaboration, we saw slight year-on-year growth. I wondered if that really signals the start of a recovery here and troughing in the cycle, which is obviously something we've been waiting for, for a number of quarters. Curious on your view there and how sustainable the growth can be and whether you'll be investing behind that in terms of boosting the channel?

其次，在視訊協作方面，我們看到年比略有成長。我想知道這是否真的標誌著經濟復甦的開始和周期的低谷，這顯然是我們幾個季度以來一直在等待的事情。想知道您對此的看法以及成長的可持續性如何，以及您是否會在促進管道方面進行投資？

Why don't I take the B2B and you start off with gross margin, Chuck?

為什麼我不選 B2B，而你從毛利率開始呢，查克？

Alex, thanks for the question. So a couple of things on the gross margin. We were about 4 points ahead of where we had talked about the quarter landing last quarter, and so those gains were equally across 4 different areas. One, we talked about potential pressure in the Suez Canal. Teams did a great job operating. There wasn't that pressure. It didn't manifest itself. So that was a tailwind.

亞歷克斯，謝謝你的提問。關於毛利率的一些事。我們比上個季度談論的季度落地提前了大約 4 個百分點，因此這些收益在 4 個不同領域是相同的。第一，我們討論了蘇伊士運河的潛在壓力。團隊運作得很好。沒有那個壓力。它沒有表現出來。所以這是順風。

You also mentioned promos. Promos was a part of it as well, going from the holiday quarter to the last holiday quarter, there's promotional tailwinds. Costs continue to kick in, so that would be the third of the 4. That helped. And then we had a little bit of regional mix. Europe did a little bit better, China a little bit worse. So that provided some tailwinds as well. So that kind of helps you bridge, I think, from where we thought maybe the quarter would be and where it ended. Obviously, a tremendous quarter from a gross margin perspective. Really, really happy with the performance on that front. Anything to add there, Chuck?

您還提到了促銷。促銷也是其中的一部分，從假期季度到最後一個假期季度，都有促銷的推動力。成本繼續增加，所以這將是四個中的第三個。然後我們進行了一些區域混合。歐洲做得好一點，中國做得差一點。這也提供了一些順風車。因此，我認為，這可以幫助您從我們認為本季可能會發生的情況到結束的情況之間建立橋樑。顯然，從毛利率的角度來看，這是一個巨大的季度。對這方面的表現真的非常滿意。有什麼要補充的嗎，查克？

Yes. I would just add on your question, Alex. Is it sustainable? And the answer is yes. Our target operating model is 39% to 44%. We finished Q4 at the high end of that model. What a great quarter. Next year, if you look at the prepared materials, we outlined an approximate 41% target for next year. It could be a little higher, it could be a little lower. But it is sustainable and it's really driven on the heels of amazing cost reduction. Our operations team has just crushed it bringing product cost down. So thank you, Prakash, [Sari], that whole team has crushed it. And then our go-to-market team has done an amazing job of being more disciplined on channel inventory and how we promote.

是的。我想補充你的問題，亞歷克斯。它可持續嗎？答案是肯定的。我們的目標營運模式是 39% 至 44%。我們在該模型的高端完成了第四季度。多麼美好的季度。明年，如果你看一下準備好的材料，我們為明年設定了大約 41% 的目標。可以高一點，也可以低一點。但它是可持續的，而且它確實是在成本驚人降低之後推動的。我們的營運團隊剛剛粉碎了它，降低了產品成本。所以謝謝你，Prakash，[Sari]，整個團隊都把它壓垮了。然後，我們的市場推廣團隊在通路庫存和促銷方式方面更加嚴格，做得非常出色。

So I do think that's sustainable in the long term. Some years might be above, closer to the high end of that model. Some could be a little lower. And we could talk about those factors later if you'd like. But thank you, Alex. And Hanneke, if you want to talk about B2B and video?

所以我確實認為從長遠來看這是可持續的。有些年份可能會高於該模型的高端。有的可能會低一點。如果您願意，我們可以稍後討論這些因素。但謝謝你，亞歷克斯。 Hanneke，如果您想談談 B2B 和影片嗎？

Yes. So B2B and video, obviously, really important to our future. And I was super pleased to see growth for the first time in many, many quarters in that segment in Q4. And I would say underneath that 2% growth, there's a number of other green shoots for our business. We continue to lead the market in VC, so hold the #1 share. Slightly grew that in the quarter as well. PWS also grew really well in the channel, close to double digit actually, which was great to see.

是的。顯然，B2B 和視訊對我們的未來非常重要。我非常高興地看到第四季度該領域在許多季度以來首次出現增長。我想說的是，在 2% 的成長背後，我們的業務還有許多其他的萌芽。我們繼續引領創投市場，因此佔據第一的份額。本季也略有成長。 PWS 在該頻道的成長也非常好，實際上接近兩位數，這是很高興看到的。

And we had record services sales. And as I said earlier, we're a little young in B2B. So services are relatively new to us, but they're growing fast. So I think our performance in the channel has been very good and will continue to improve. As we look at the market beyond our own execution, I think it hasn't picked up tremendously. And that's because office vacancies are still high because IT budgets continue to be a little stretched or probably flat corporate IT budgets from what we can see. And within that, IT teams are having to prioritize AI spend. So the market isn't quite back. Our performance in the channel is very, very strong. When that market snaps back, we'll be really ready to take advantage of that.

我們的服務銷售也創紀錄。正如我之前所說，我們在 B2B 領域還很年輕。因此，服務對我們來說相對較新，但成長很快。所以我認為我們在通路方面的表現非常好，並且會繼續提高。當我們超越我們自己的執行力來看待市場時，我認為它並沒有大幅回升。這是因為辦公室空缺率仍然很高，因為 IT 預算仍然有點緊張，或者從我們所看到的情況來看，企業 IT 預算可能持平。其中，IT 團隊必須優先考慮人工智慧支出。所以市場還沒有完全恢復。我們在通路方面的表現非常非常強勁。當市場反彈時，我們將真正準備好利用這一點。

Our next question is from Asiya Merchant at Citi.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的 Asiya Merchant。

Thank you again, Chuck, for a great partnership and for all the help over the last few quarters. Just a quick question, Hanneke. You outlined several great TAM opportunities to grow your expandable market. The cautious guide, I understand, perhaps, related to temporary budget spending. But given great margins here, do you think you would need to invest with higher levels of OpEx here in the near term to drive, perhaps, the organic growth a little bit higher? Or do you think the model here is rightsized?

再次感謝您，查克，感謝您在過去幾季的良好合作夥伴關係和所有幫助。只是一個簡單的問題，漢內克。您概述了幾個拓展可擴展市場的絕佳 TAM 機會。據我了解，謹慎的指導或許與臨時預算支出有關。但考慮到這裡的利潤率很高，您認為您是否需要在短期內在這裡投資更高水準的營運支出，以推動有機成長更高一點？或者您認為這裡的模型大小合適嗎？

Yes. So we -- going forward, we've guided on our midterm model. We've guided on gross margins, 39% to 44%, and on operating margins, 14% to 17%. I think OpEx won't be super far from the 25, but I think it's right to not box us in necessarily. We should always be prioritizing investment in both R&D and brand building, so you may see quarters where that's a little higher than the 25. And that's okay if we're spending it on good cholesterol that drives growth. What's important is, again, that top line, low single digits accelerating to high single digits, and then those gross margins and those operating income margins.

是的。因此，展望未來，我們已經制定了中期模型。我們的毛利率指引為 39% 至 44%，營業利潤率為 14% 至 17%。我認為 OpEx 距離 25 不會太遠，但我認為不必將我們限制在其中是正確的。我們應該始終優先考慮對研發和品牌建設的投資，因此您可能會看到某些季度的投資略高於 25 個季度。重要的是，收入從低個位數加速到高個位數，然後是毛利率和營業利潤率。

Great. And then just if I may, near term, given all the details in the shareholder letter that you gave, it wasn't clear to me. Given the growth rates that you're guiding for this next fiscal year, if VC is growing here or declining given your flattish or plus 1% growth expectation, but then VC seems to be a little bit lower on that bar.

偉大的。然後，請容許我考慮一下，近期，考慮到您提供的股東信中的所有細節，我並不清楚。考慮到您指導的下一個財年的成長率，如果創投在這裡成長，或者考慮到您持平或+1%的成長預期而下降，但創投似乎在這個標準上有點低。

Yes. So what I was really pleased about in Q4 is that the growth was broad-based. So every region grew and every key segment, every key category grew, including VC. I think going forward, that's what we'll be aiming for. And we're not guiding here the exact growth rates of any of the specific categories, but I think it will and can be broad-based.

是的。因此，我在第四季度真正感到高興的是，成長是基礎廣泛的。因此，每個地區都在成長，每個關鍵領域、每個關鍵類別都在成長，包括創投。我認為，展望未來，這就是我們的目標。我們在這裡並沒有指導任何特定類別的確切成長率，但我認為它將並且可以具有廣泛的基礎。

Yes. Asiya, in the shareholder letter, we outlined and ranked the kind of high margin to lower margin, higher growth to lower growth in VCs in kind of that middle range, which would indicate that our view, based on industry research, and again, the industry prognosticators are calling sort of flattish to slightly growing market. We're being cautious because of the items that Hanneke mentioned. I do think this is one that when interest rates normalize, office vacancy normalizes, this is a great category that should outsize growth for the company overall in the long term. I think next year, we're being a little cautious.

是的。 Asiya，在股東信中，我們概述了風險投資的高利潤率到低利潤率、較高增長到較低增長的中間範圍，這表明我們基於行業研究的觀點，並且再次強調，行業預測者稱市場持平或略有成長。由於漢內克提到的項目，我們保持謹慎。我確實認為，當利率正常化、辦公室空缺正常化時，這是一個很好的類別，從長遠來看，應該會超過公司整體的成長。我認為明年，我們會有點謹慎。

Next up from Deutsche Bank is George Brown.

德意志銀行的下一位是喬治·布朗。

I have 2, if I may. So firstly, in terms of your sales outlook for next year, if we take the midpoint and use your expectations on seasonality, this implies growth of roughly 5% in the first half but a decline of 2% in the second half. I understand that this divergence is partly driven by improving growth trends in fiscal year '24. But is there any other reason for the decline in the second half of the year? And then secondly, I noticed on your shareholder letter that you reiterated your long-term targets on profitability, but you didn't mention anything about your long-term growth target of 8% to 10%. I'm just wondering how we should interpret this.

如果可以的話，我有 2 個。首先，就您明年的銷售前景而言，如果我們採用中點並使用您對季節性的預期，這意味著上半年增長約 5％，但下半年下降 2％。據我了解，這種差異部分是由於 24 財年成長趨勢的改善所造成的。但下半年下滑還有其他原因嗎？其次，我注意到你們在致股東的信中重申了你們的長期獲利目標，但沒有提到你們8%到10%的長期成長目標。我只是想知道我們應該如何解釋這一點。

I'll do the first part, Hanneke, if you want to do the second part.

漢內克，如果你想做第二部分，我會做第一部分。

Yes, absolutely.

是的，一點沒錯。

Okay. So thank you, George, for the quick math, and we wanted to provide the seasonality because it's a little different than historical. The primary driver is, we have done a really good job of leaning out channel inventory. And so now when you compare it to history, it's going to look a little different. Going forward, this should be the more normalized profile. And what that means is there's going to be a little more sell-in in Q1, at the quarter run rate now, the June quarter, then you'll see a little more sell-in in Q2, followed by more sale-out in Q3 and Q4.

好的。所以，謝謝喬治，快速計算一下，我們想提供季節性，因為它與歷史有點不同。主要驅動力是，我們在精簡通路庫存方面做得非常好。所以現在當你將它與歷史進行比較時，它看起來會有點不同。展望未來，這應該是更加標準化的配置。這意味著，以現在的季度運行速度，即六月季度，第一季的銷售量將會增加一些，然後您會在第二季度看到更多的銷售量，然後在第二季度出現更多的銷售量Q3 和 Q4。

And so the real kind of way to think about this is the right operating model is weeks on hand, how much channel inventory should we have from a weeks on hand. And when you compare that to last year, where we were still leaning out the channel throughout the year, the year-on-year growth is going to look really strong for Q1. So when you do the math, we're going to have a really strong Q1 compared to prior year, but it's based on the right target operating model.

因此，真正考慮這個問題的方法是正確的營運模式是手頭上幾週，我們手邊應該有多少通路庫存。當你與去年相比時，我們全年仍然在向通路傾斜，第一季的年成長看起來非常強勁。因此，當你進行數學計算時，與去年相比，我們的第一季將會非常強勁，但它是基於正確的目標營運模式。

Now what does that mean for the full year? Could Q3 and Q4 be higher? Of course. That's a long ways off. The December quarter is our biggest quarter. But we're -- you're going to see a pretty strong Q1, a pretty strong Q2. We've really done a good job of having the business be more linear. What we sell in each month now is more similar. And then that should translate into better margins and a new kind of seasonal model based on weeks on hand. So don't read into a lot with that seasonality other than we're running a leaner supply chain, and this is reflective of putting the right product in the channel for the weeks on hand on a forward-looking basis.

那麼這對全年意味著什麼呢？ Q3和Q4會更高嗎？當然。那還有很長的路要走。 12 月季度是我們最大的季度。但我們——你會看到一個非常強勁的第一季度，一個非常強勁的第二季度。我們在讓業務更加線性方面確實做得很好。我們現在每個月銷售的東西更相似。然後，這應該轉化為更好的利潤和基於現有周數的新型季節性模型。因此，除了我們正在運行一個更精簡的供應鏈之外，不要過多地考慮季節性因素，這反映了在前瞻性的基礎上將正確的產品放入管道中。

Yes. Super. And I'm glad, George, that you're asking the question on 8% to 10% because that's obviously a really important one. What we're doing here is clarifying the organic growth piece of that, which is what we can control. And I think we owe that to you guys to be a little more specific on organic. So what you've seen is our outlook for next year on organic is low single digits. Beyond that, we will accelerate as soon as we humanly can to mid-single digits. And why do I believe that is true? We believe our markets, thanks to those tailwinds of new ways of working, gaming and AI. We believe our markets will be GDP plus. If you combine that with modest share growth, you get to those mid-single-digit rates.

是的。極好的。喬治，我很高興你提出了 8% 到 10% 的問題，因為這顯然是一個非常重要的問題。我們在這裡所做的就是澄清其中的有機成長部分，這是我們可以控制的。我認為我們應該對有機食品更具體一點。所以你所看到的是我們對明年有機食品的展望是低個位數。除此之外，我們將盡我們所能加速到中個位數。為什麼我相信這是真的？由於新工作方式、遊戲和人工智慧的推動，我們相信我們的市場。我們相信我們的市場將是GDP+。如果將其與適度的份額成長相結合，您將獲得中等個位數的成長率。

That's also what the company did pre-COVID. So if you look at the 7-year pre-COVID CAGR, it was 5%. If you look at the 5 years pre-COVID CAGR, it was 7%. So again, mid-single digits. It's what our track record was, and we believe we can do that going forward.

這也是該公司在新冠疫情爆發前所做的事情。因此，如果你看看新冠疫情爆發前 7 年的複合年增長率，你會發現它是 5%。如果你看看新冠疫情爆發前 5 年的複合年增長率，你會發現它是 7%。再說一次，中間個位數。這就是我們的記錄，我們相信我們可以繼續做到這一點。

Any M&A would come on top of that, but it's harder to predict. And I would say it can be huge, it can be small. It can be a mountain or a molehill. And I would hate to artificially cap the size of M&A. I would also hate to overpromise on the size of M&A. We'll be thoughtful, we'll be deliberate and strategic on M&A. But I think it's important that we provide that clarity on the organic growth rates, which is what is our priority right now.

任何併購都會在此之上，但更難預測。我想說它可以很大，也可以很小。它可以是一座山，也可以是一個小山丘。我不願意人為地限制併購規模。我也不願意對併購規模做出過度承諾。我們將深思熟慮、深思熟慮、策略性地進行併購。但我認為重要的是我們要明確有機成長率，這是我們目前的首要任務。

Next, let's go to Bank of America, Didier Scemama.

接下來，我們去美國銀行，Didier Scemama。

A question for Hanneke. I'm a bit surprised you have lowered your long-term growth target, not because I don't understand it, but because effectively, you just told us that you're going to invest a bit more to increase your TAM by about $1 billion. So I would have expected, at the very least, the organic growth to have been the same as it was. But now you're telling us that effectively, some of your core categories are going to decelerate, if not shrink. Is that the right way to understand it? And I've got a follow-up.

問漢內克一個問題。我有點驚訝你降低了你的長期成長目標，不是因為我不明白，而是因為實際上，你只是告訴我們你要多投資一點，以將你的 TAM 增加約 1 美元十億。因此，我預計至少有機成長會與實際情況相同。但現在你告訴我們，實際上，你的一些核心類別即使沒有萎縮，也會減速。這是正確的理解方式嗎？我還有後續行動。

I wouldn't say so, Didier. I think -- well, I know the previous 8% to 10%, which has been around for a long time, always included M&A, which made it rather obtuse. Because again, M&A can be huge. It can be small. It's hard to predict when it will come. So I think it's important that we give you some guidance on what we think this business can do organically. For next year, that's low single digits. And then from there, we'll take that to mid-single digits. That's by no means a deceleration of where we've been. That's where we were pre-COVID. In the last 2 years, obviously, we were down across our categories. So we look forward to accelerating that business, and I'm very optimistic about our ability to do that.

我不會這麼說，迪迪爾。我認為——嗯，我知道之前的 8% 到 10% 已經存在很長時間了，總是包括併購，這使得它相當遲鈍。因為併購的規模可能非常龐大。它可以很小。很難預測它什麼時候會到來。因此，我認為重要的是，我們為您提供一些指導，讓您了解我們認為這項業務可以有機地做什麼。對於明年來說，這個數字很低。然後從那裡，我們將把它帶到中間個位數。這絕不是我們的發展速度有所放緩。這就是我們在新冠疫情之前的處境。顯然，在過去的兩年裡，我們的各個類別都出現了下滑。因此，我們期待加速這項業務，我對我們做到這一點的能力非常樂觀。

Excellent. And I think your long-term gross margin model has been changed, but should we understand from your commentary that you expect to operate towards, let's say, the upper end of that range? And that you're going to invest effectively what's on top of that in R&D to accelerate our top line, maybe in the longer term?

出色的。我認為您的長期毛利率模型已經改變，但我們是否應該從您的評論中了解到您期望以該範圍的上限進行運營？您將有效地投資於研發，以加速我們的營收成長，也許從長遠來看？

Yes. So within the OpEx, definitely what I would like to do is shift more to the S rather than the G and the A, which is marketing and R&D, because that's what drives, in the end, our gross margins and our ability to premium price our products. So yes on that. On gross margins, I wouldn't -- we're guiding a range, 39% to 44%, for the longer term. For next year, we can -- we think we can be around 41%, which is great. Should that change going forward, we'll let you know. But a broad range, given the uncertainties in the environment, I think is prudent for now.

是的。因此，在營運支出中，我絕對想做的就是更多地轉向 S 而不是 G 和 A，即行銷和研發，因為這最終會推動我們的毛利率和溢價能力我們的產品。所以是的。至於毛利率，我不會——我們的長期指引範圍是 39% 到 44%。明年，我們可以——我們認為我們可以達到 41% 左右，這很棒。如果未來發生變化，我們會通知您。但考慮到環境的不確定性，我認為目前廣泛的範圍是謹慎的。

I would just -- I'll also add, Didier, that the -- it's an important kind of philosophy that Logitech has. And this is broader than Hanneke and I. This is kind of in the business groups and the go-to-market is we are not going to give up share in the mainstream and lower end. We will fight the margin game at the low end. Why? We make our money in mid-tier to high end. And so you will see periods where we're more aggressively promoting to defend our share of shelf at broad-scale e-comm and retail.

我只是 - 我還要補充一點，迪迪爾，這是羅技擁有的重要理念。這比漢內克和我更廣泛。我們將在低端進行利潤遊戲。為什麼？我們在中高端產品領域賺錢。因此，您會看到我們將更加積極地進行促銷，以捍衛我們在大規模電子商務和零售領域的貨架份額。

And so there will be periods where we're fighting more to maintain share or grow share. The long-term model, 39% to 44%, makes perfect sense. This year, as we see it today, 41% is a really good planning number. But understand that I wouldn't encourage you to go to the high end of the model permanently because competition can be fierce, and we will defend our turf.

因此，在某些時期，我們會更加努力地維持份額或擴大份額。 39% 到 44% 的長期模型非常有意義。今年，正如我們今天所看到的，41% 是一個非常好的規劃數字。但請理解，我不會鼓勵您永久進入模型的高端，因為競爭可能很激烈，我們將捍衛我們的地盤。

Let's go to George Wang at Barclays.

讓我們去找巴克萊銀行的喬治王。

Just 2 quick ones. In the prepared remarks, you talked about some AI tailwinds. Most people don't associate necessarily large tailwinds with AI, at least in the near term. Maybe you can parse out some of the kind of drivers kind of -- and when do you think we could possibly see some tailwind on the P&L side?

就2個快的。在準備好的發言中，您談到了一些人工智慧的推動因素。大多數人不一定會將人工智慧與巨大的推動力連結在一起，至少在短期內是如此。也許你可以解析出一些驅動因素——你認為我們什麼時候可能會在損益方面看到一些順風車？

Yes. Great. Thanks for the question. So Logitech already is part of that AI ecosystem, and we look at it in 3 ways. The first way, of course, is to drive in-house productivity like every other company on the planet. So I won't talk about that. The other 2 ways we look at AI is really to drive growth. First, that is in our software. And a good example of this is what we launched on April 17 a couple of weeks ago, the Logi AI Prompt Builder. That sits in -- I was going to grab my mouse, since I used to have my mouse here, but it sits in all our mice and keyboards. And it's basically a productivity enhancer.

是的。偉大的。謝謝你的提問。因此，羅技已經成為人工智慧生態系統的一部分，我們從三個方面來看它。當然，第一種方法是像地球上所有其他公司一樣提高內部生產力。所以我不會談論這個。我們看待人工智慧的另外兩種方式其實是為了推動成長。首先，這是在我們的軟體中。一個很好的例子就是我們在幾週前於 4 月 17 日推出的 Logi AI Prompt Builder。它位於——我本來打算拿起我的滑鼠，因為我曾經把滑鼠放在這裡，但它位於我們所有的滑鼠和鍵盤中。它基本上是一種生產力增強劑。

I don't know if you guys use it, if you use ChatGPT a lot. But if you use it a lot for summarizing, for rephrasing, for translating, you have to go out of the work that you're doing, go into ChatGPT, copy, paste, come back in. One of the consumer needs we identified early on was to make that faster and more fluent. So what the software, the Logi AI Prompt Builder, that's now for free, by the way, across all our products, lets you stay in the flow. That's pretty cool. We have 0.5 million active usage occasions already in less than 2 weeks. People really like it. That's the way to make our products better. And we firmly believe when you have superior products, you will grow faster. So that's the one way, working with the ChatGPTs of the world to help people enhance their productivity.

我不知道你們是否使用它，如果你們經常使用ChatGPT。但如果你大量使用它來總結、改寫、翻譯，你就必須離開你正在做的工作，進入 ChatGPT，複製、貼上，然後再回來。更流暢。順便說一句，現在免費的 Logi AI Prompt Builder 軟體適用於我們所有的產品，可以讓您保持流暢。太酷了。在不到 2 週的時間裡，我們已經擁有 50 萬次活躍使用次數。人們真的很喜歡它。這就是讓我們的產品變得更好的方法。我們堅信，當您擁有卓越的產品時，您將成長得更快。因此，這是與世界各地的 ChatGPT 合作幫助人們提高生產力的一種方法。

The other way is probably even more fundamental, which is improving audio and video based on machine learning and large language models with our own data models. I talked about this a little bit on our last call, but products like the Logitech Sight video conferencing tool are outstanding. We used machine learning, fed all the data in. What happens in a big conference room, normally, there's 10 of you on one site, one of you on the other site. The person on the other site can't see who's speaking, just sees little heads. It's not a great experience. With the Logitech Sight, it recognizes who's speaking. But thanks to the AI underneath, it also not just knows who's speaking. But it knows when you're opening a packet of crisps, that it shouldn't focus on you. It's like having a really intelligent producer inside of the product. Same is true for audio, where in our headsets, we've implemented, again, the same machine learning to get perfect two-way noise cancellation.

另一種方法可能更為基本，即使用我們自己的資料模型基於機器學習和大型語言模型來改進音訊和視訊。我在上次通話中談到了這一點，但像 Logitech Sight 視訊會議工具這樣的產品非常出色。我們使用機器學習，輸入所有資料。另一個網站上的人看不到誰在說話，只能看到小頭像。這不是一次很棒的經驗。借助 Logitech Sight，它可以識別誰在說話。但由於底層的人工智慧，它不僅知道誰在說話。但它知道當你打開一包薯片時，它不應該把注意力集中在你身上。這就像產品內部有一個真正聰明的生產者。音訊也是如此，在我們的耳機中，我們再次實現了相同的機器學習，以實現完美的雙向噪音消除。

So lots of way in which we're using machine learning and large data models to make our products more superior. And again, the more we can grow that superiority delta and delight our consumers, I think the faster we grow. That's why we see this as a tailwind.

我們透過多種方式使用機器學習和大數據模型來使我們的產品更加卓越。再說一遍，我們越能擴大優勢增量並取悅我們的消費者，我認為我們的成長速度就越快。這就是為什麼我們將其視為順風車。

There's one other angle too I'd just add, and that is if you're tracking Dell or Lenovo or even HP in some cases, they're talking about a pretty significant chip refresh in their fleet of PCs. And while we've talked about there's not a huge correlation between PC shipments and the sale of our gear, there is a correlation. So as you see that PC refresh cycle happening with chips, AI chips going more local in the machine, that we think will have an attach rate that will be a tailwind to us over time as you see a large PC refresh happening.

我還想補充一下另一個角度，那就是，如果您在某些情況下跟踪戴爾或聯想，甚至惠普，他們正在談論其 PC 機群中的相當重大的晶片更新。雖然我們已經討論過個人電腦出貨量和我們的設備銷售之間並沒有很大的相關性，但確實存在相關性。因此，當你看到晶片的PC 更新周期發生時，人工智慧晶片在機器中更加本地化，​​我們認為隨著時間的推移，當你看到大規模的PC 更新發生時，這將成為我們的順風車。

Got you. Just a quick follow-up, if I can. Just in terms of China, you guys called out some continued weakness in China, especially on the gaming side. You guys mentioned some competitive intensity and some potential share loss. Just curious kind of whether you see that as a more sort of continuous sort of pressure in the next few quarters? And then maybe you can provide a little bit more color on that, especially in the gaming side in China.

明白你了。如果可以的話，請快速跟進。就中國而言，你們指出了中國持續疲軟的情況，尤其是在遊戲方面。你們提到了一些競爭強度和一些潛在的份額損失。只是好奇您是否認為這是未來幾季的一種更持續的壓力？然後也許你可以提供更多的色彩，特別是在中國的遊戲方面。

Yes, absolutely. So there's -- the business in China on the gaming side is a little softer than I would like for it to be. It's not all bad. When you look at the premium mice, we're still doing well. We're still growing. We're still #1. And I think what's also reassuring is the brand is still very strong. It has strong awareness, a strong reputation. That continues to be super important because there's literally more than 1,000 other brands in peripherals in China. So to have the brand that is the strongest in the market is really, really key.

是的，一點沒錯。因此，中國的遊戲業務比我希望的要軟一些。這並非全然是壞事。當你看看優質滑鼠時，你會發現我們仍然做得很好。我們還在成長。我們仍然是#1。我認為同樣令人放心的是該品牌仍然非常強大。具有較強的知名度、良好的聲譽。這仍然非常重要，因為中國實際上有 1,000 多個其他週邊設備品牌。因此，擁有市場上最強的品牌確實非常關鍵。

That said, there is intense competition, and we need to do better. So I've challenged my teams to come up with plans to compete more effectively in China. That's one of our top priorities for the months ahead, and I'm confident that we will turn that around.

也就是說，競爭很激烈，我們需要做得更好。因此，我要求我的團隊制定計劃，以便在中國更有效地競爭。這是我們未來幾個月的首要任務之一，我相信我們將扭轉這一局面。

Let's go to Jörn Iffert at UBS.

讓我們來看看瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Jörn Ifffert。

Chuck, all the best to you in the future. Three quick questions, please. The first one would be, please, on gaming. Can you share with us how strong the growth in simulation devices was? Because I remember this can be cyclical. And also, why gaming is now dropping to the lower end of the gross profit margin range as you indicated in the shareholder letter?

查克，祝你未來一切順利。請簡單問三個問題。第一個是關於遊戲。您能否與我們分享模擬設備的成長有多強勁？因為我記得這可能是週期性的。另外，為什麼遊戲現在已降至毛利率範圍的下限，正如您在股東信中指出的那樣？

Sure, Jörn. Thank you for the kind words. Simulation is a great business, and our team is crushing it. The results, we don't break out the detail for you. But simulation margins are good, business is up, and we feel really good about the simulation business. So I think more to come on that one, and we do feel good about that, in general.

當然，喬恩。謝謝你的客氣話。模擬是一項偉大的事業，我們的團隊正在粉碎它。至於結果，我們就不給大家透露細節了。但模擬利潤率很高，業務也在成長，我們對模擬業務感覺非常好。所以我認為在這方面還有更多的進展，總的來說，我們確實對此感覺很好。

In terms of margins dropping on gaming, I wouldn't say that they're dropping on gaming. Margins have always been challenging on gaming. If you think about our overall portfolio and in the shareholder letter, we ranked the different categories. But within gaming, which is one line, there are vastly different margins. Think of console headsets. Before our new product, the A50 X, which is awesome and great margin and a killer new product in that category, console headset margins were terrible. They're bad for our competitors. It's a very, very competitive space.

就遊戲利潤率下降而言，我不會說他們在遊戲領域下降。遊戲產業的利潤率一直面臨挑戰。如果您考慮我們的整體投資組合以及在股東信中，我們對不同類別進行了排名。但在遊戲產業，這是一條線，利潤率卻截然不同。想想控制台耳機。在我們的新產品 A50 X 之前，控制台耳機的利潤率非常糟糕，A50 X 非常棒，利潤豐厚，是該類別中的殺手級新產品。它們對我們的競爭對手不利。這是一個競爭非常非常激烈的領域。

We have changed the game by offering a really unique, innovative, different product that no one else has that we think will change the margin profile on console headsets. Gaming mice, we're the market leader. Margins are quite good. Gaming keyboards, a little more competitive. Simulation margins are quite good. And there's many other categories within gaming. But overall, it's a fairly competitive business. And therefore, it's a little lower margin than our flagship products like video, mice, keyboards, the area -- the B2B ones, especially.

我們透過提供一種真正獨特、創新、與眾不同的產品改變了遊戲規則，我們認為這將改變遊戲機耳機的利潤狀況，這是其他任何人都沒有的。遊戲滑鼠，我們是市場領導者。利潤率相當不錯。遊戲鍵盤，更具競爭力。模擬裕度相當不錯。遊戲中還有許多其他類別。但總體而言，這是一個競爭相當激烈的行業。因此，它的利潤率比我們的影片、滑鼠、鍵盤等旗艦產品（尤其是 B2B 領域）要低一些。

So all the businesses are great, and the margins in gaming are up significantly year-over-year. So I will say thank you to Ujesh, the gaming team. They've done a great job of driving cost down, holding margin, holding promo and doing great.

所以所有的業務都很棒，遊戲的利潤率逐年大幅成長。所以我要向遊戲團隊 Ujesh 表示感謝。他們在降低成本、保持利潤、進行促銷方面做得很好，做得很好。

One word of caution, though, for the models. For Q1, there will be some margin pressure in Q1. It's the June 18 holiday, big promo window in China, and we're going to win that holiday. We want to come in strong. We'll be price competitive. It will bring margins for the company down a little bit, but we do intend to fight back. And Hanneke has challenged the team to do better, and I think we can.

不過，對於模型來說，需要注意一點。對於第一季來說，第一季將會存在一些利潤壓力。今天是 6 月 18 日假期，中國的大型促銷窗口，我們將贏得這個假期。我們想變得強大。我們將具有價格競爭力。這將使公司的利潤率略有下降，但我們確實打算反擊。漢內克要求團隊做得更好，我認為我們可以。

Okay. And the second question please to Hanneke. Hanneke, how are you changing internal processes? How is decision-making changing? So if you can give us some insights where you have tried to improve things or change things.

好的。第二個問題請問 Hanneke。 Hanneke，您如何改變內部流程？決策如何改變？因此，您是否可以向我們提供一些您嘗試改進或改變事物的見解。

Yes. Great question. Thanks. I think the first thing is setting out these clear, strategic choices because when you're unclear, things tend to swirl inside the company, and I want to avoid that at all cost going forward. So the choices of work and play, that's where we will play. We'll look at those markets in a larger way, but that's our space. The choice of design-led software-enabled hardware, again, very carefully chosen words. We are not going to do adventures in pure software that's unrelated to our hardware. We're also not going to play with plain hardware.

是的。很好的問題。謝謝。我認為第一件事是製定這些明確的策略選擇，因為當你不清楚時，公司內部的事情往往會發生混亂，我希望未來不惜一切代價避免這種情況發生。所以工作和娛樂的選擇，就是我們要玩的地方。我們將以更大的方式審視這些市場，但這就是我們的空間。同樣，選擇以設計為主導的軟體驅動的硬體也是非常謹慎的選擇。我們不會在與我們的硬體無關的純軟體中進行冒險。我們也不打算使用普通硬體。

Our hardware has software insights and leads with design. Those are important choices to put on a piece of paper because they've led to some swirl here in the past. The choice to double down on B2B will drive some of our resource investments when it comes to capabilities. The choices on geographic opportunities and making sure that everyone performs at the very highest level, and we don't have these share of wallet differences between similar countries. And finally, the choice of one iconic brand is really important versus the multi-brand strategy of the past.

我們的硬體具有軟體洞察力並以設計領先。這些都是需要寫在紙上的重要選擇，因為它們在過去曾引發一些漩渦。在能力方面，加倍投入 B2B 的選擇將推動我們的一些資源投資。地理機會的選擇並確保每個人都表現出最高水平，而且我們在類似國家之間沒有這些錢包差異。最後，與過去的多品牌策略相比，選擇一個標誌性品牌非常重要。

So I think making those clear choices will help people know what to expect and will help us move faster. I also believe structure follows strategy. So we'll be adjusting the organization going forward to make sure we can drive those clear choices and drive really attractive profitable growth going forward.

因此，我認為做出這些明確的選擇將有助於人們知道會發生什麼，並將幫助我們更快採取行動。我還相信結構遵循策略。因此，我們將調整未來的組織，以確保我們能夠推動這些明確的選擇，並推動未來真正有吸引力的獲利成長。

And the very last question, really a quick one. On the Chief Design Officer position, can you just remind me who it is right now? And if this structure has changed?

最後一個問題，確實是一個很快的問題。關於首席設計長的職位，您能提醒我現在的首席設計長是誰嗎？如果這個結構改變了呢？

Yes. No, no. So we announced earlier in the quarter, I believe sometime in February, that Malin Leschly, who's a fabulous Swedish designer who had been with Logitech for a little while, has been appointed our new Chief Design Officer. She is off to a roaring start. We love what she's doing. The design team, just in the last couple of weeks, won 10 super prestigious Red Dot Design Awards, so the design team just keeps performing incredibly well under her leadership.

是的。不，不。因此，我們在本季度早些時候（我相信是在二月份的某個時候）宣布，Malin Leschly（一位出色的瑞典設計師，曾在羅技工作了一段時間）已被任命為我們新的首席設計官。她已經有了一個好的開始。我們喜歡她所做的事情。設計團隊在過去幾週就獲得了十項超級著名的紅點設計獎，因此設計團隊在她的領導下表現得非常出色。

Let's go to Ananda Baruah at Loop.

我們去 Loop 的 Ananda Baruah 吧。

Chuck, it's been great working with you. It's really been value-add, and your proactive-ness actually is noticeable over the years. So really appreciate that. I guess, just a kind of clarification and then one quick question here. Hanneke, you had mentioned kind of when you were talking about mid-single digit -- returning to mid-single-digit growth in the intermediate term. My interpretation. You mentioned 5% and 7%. And so do you relate to 5% to 7% as mid-single-digit growth? Or were you just providing a for instance?

查克，和你一起工作真是太好了。這確實是增值的，多年來你的積極主動性實際上是顯而易見的。所以真的很感激。我想，這只是一種澄清，然後是一個簡單的問題。漢內克，您在談論中個位數增長時曾提到過——在中期恢復到中個位數增長。我的解釋。你提到了5%和7%。那麼您認為 5% 到 7% 是中等個位數成長嗎？還是你只是提供一個例子？

Well, those were the growth rates pre-COVID, so those were for instances. In my book, mid-single digits goes all the way from 3% to 7%, so that's the guidance we're providing.

嗯，這些都是新冠疫情之前的成長率，所以這些只是舉例。在我的書中，中個位數從 3% 一直到 7%，所以這就是我們提供的指導。

Got it. And is high -- would high single digit be an aspiration longer term for the company?

知道了。而且很高——高個位數會是公司的長期願望嗎？

Again, I think what we're guiding that mid-single digits for is organic. And we hope that with our balance sheet, we would be adding M&A to that. So then we can do the math, and we would do a little more.

再說一次，我認為我們所指導的中間個位數是有機的。我們希望透過我們的資產負債表，我們能夠將併購納入其中。那我們就可以做數學計算，而且我們會做更多的事情。

Is it too early to say, yes, if high single-digit organic would be something that the company could go for long term?

現在說“是的”，如果公司可以長期實現高個位數的有機成長，是否還為時過早？

Too early to say.

說還為時過早。

Next up, we'll go to Morgan Stanley, Erik Woodring.

接下來，我們將採訪摩根士丹利的艾瑞克‧伍德林。

I have 2, please. Maybe just the first one. If we just double-click on the channel inventory comments, I just want to gain a little bit of clarity there because sell-through in the March quarter was flat, sell-in was up 5%. So that would imply you filled the channel. So I just want to make sure I'm thinking about that right or if I'm not, what I'm missing there.

我有2個，拜託。也許只是第一個。如果我們雙擊通路庫存評論，我只想獲得一點清晰的信息，因為 3 月份季度的銷售量持平，銷售量增長了 5%。所以這意味著你填補了這個頻道。所以我只是想確保我的想法是正確的，或者如果我沒有，我會錯過什麼。

And then beyond the March quarter, just to Chuck, to get to your comments, I understand maybe your approach to filling and draining the channel might be different. As we look forward, from my seat, I guess, it just seems as though you're filling the channel at a different time as opposed to changing the underlying maybe fundamentals or visibility of the business. And so can you maybe just help me understand how this maybe new approach to channel inventory benefits Logitech outside of just timing-related factors?

然後在三月季度之後，請查克，請聽聽您的評論，我理解您填充和耗盡管道的方法可能會有所不同。當我們展望未來時，從我的座位上來看，我想，似乎你是在不同的時間填充管道，而不是改變潛在的基本面或業務的可見性。那麼，您能否幫助我了解這種可能的新通路庫存方法除了與時間相關的因素之外，如何使羅技受益？

And then last question related to this, I'm sorry for the multipart question, it's just -- if sell-in is up -- flat to up 2% in fiscal '25, how should we think about sell-through expectations for fiscal '25?

然後與此相關的最後一個問題，我對這個多部分的問題感到抱歉，這只是——如果銷售量上升——在 25 財年持平至增長 2%，我們應該如何考慮財政年度的銷售預期'25 ？

Great, Erik. Thank you. I'll try to see if I can get all your questions remembered and articulated properly. So you need to follow up if I don't exactly hit the nail on the head. So first of all, sell-in was flat. It's in the shareholder letter -- or sorry, sell-through was flat year-over-year. Sell-in was up 5%. As I mentioned earlier, 2 points of that is simply comparing the channel inventory year-over-year. So a year ago, we took channel inventory down more than we -- than it came down in Q4 of this year. So really, the way to think about that is 2 points of the 5% is the channel inventory reduction this year was lower than the channel inventory reduction was a year ago. The other 3 points of growth is really promotional effectiveness. Basically, we're selling the same number of units, but we have more profit per unit. Therefore, there's more revenue because of a higher profitability and less promotional activity. We've seen that in other quarters as well. It's a more disciplined approach to how we do promos. So that part should be fairly straightforward. If not, I can follow up if you ask another question.

太棒了，埃里克。謝謝。我會嘗試看看是否能記住並正確表達您的所有問題。所以如果我沒有說到重點上，你需要跟進。首先，賣出持平。這是在股東信中寫的——或者抱歉，銷售量同比持平。賣出量上漲了 5%。正如我之前提到的，其中有兩點就是比較通路庫存的年比情況。因此，一年前，我們的通路庫存下降幅度超過了今年第四季的下降幅度。因此，實際上，5% 中的 2 個百分點是今年通路庫存減少量低於一年前的通路庫存減少量。另外3個成長點是真正的促銷效果。基本上，我們銷售的單位數量相同，但單位利潤較高。因此，由於更高的盈利能力和更少的促銷活動，收入也更多。我們在其他方面也看到了這一點。這是我們進行促銷的更嚴格的方法。所以這部分應該要相當簡單。如果沒有，如果您提出其他問題，我可以跟進。

On the 0 to 2%, I think your question was what should sell-through be. I would expect sell-through to also be roughly 0 to 2%. Effectively, we should be ending the year about where we started from a channel inventory standpoint. And the operating model is really, for us, it's -- have a linear business where we're selling every month, every day, every week, we're selling. That's how customers buy.

關於 0% 到 2%，我認為你的問題是銷售率應該是多少。我預計售出率也大約是 0% 到 2%。實際上，從渠道庫存的角度來看，我們應該在今年結束時了解我們的起點。對我們來說，營運模式實際上是——擁有一個線性業務，我們每個月、每天、每週都在銷售。顧客就是這樣購買的。

B2B can be a little different. But generally, there are customers who are buying every day, every month, every week. And we want our factories to run that way and ship that way, and that matches how customers buy. Now what's different is, for example, in China, there's a big promo window, June 18. So we took the product into the field in advance of that, and that's this forward weeks on hand operating model. So in China, we'll be shipping a lot more product in this month in May, April and May, to get ready for that promo window, and then it will come down a little bit.

B2B 可能略有不同。但一般來說，每天、每月、每週都有顧客購買。我們希望我們的工廠能夠以這種方式運作和運輸，並且與客戶的購買方式相符。現在不同的是，例如在中國，有一個很大的促銷窗口，6 月 18 日。 所以我們提前將產品帶入該領域，這就是這個提前幾週的現有營運模式。因此，在中國，我們將在五月、四月和五月運送更多產品，為促銷窗口做好準備，然後會有所下降。

As we think about Amazon Prime Days, we'll be selling in advance of those days. So all we're doing now is matching how we fill the channel in advance of the promotional windows, the big one being Black Friday, the December quarter, the holiday window. It's the biggest quarter of the year for us, the December quarter. We'll start having that fill happening in late September, October, early November. And then again, the channel will come out. So all the hard work that we've done a year ago now is going to pay fruit. And that should mean better margins and lower operating costs, which should translate into a very compelling gross margin of that 41-ish percent this year and in that range of 39% to 44% for the years to come. .

當我們考慮亞馬遜 Prime Days 時，我們將在這些日子之前進行銷售。因此，我們現在要做的就是在促銷窗口之前匹配我們如何填充渠道，其中最重要的是黑色星期五、十二月季度和假日窗口。十二月季度是我們一年中最重要的季度。我們將在九月末、十月、十一月初開始進行填充。然後，頻道又會出來。因此，我們一年前所做的所有努力現在都將得到回報。這應該意味著更好的利潤率和更低的營運成本，這應該會轉化為今年 41% 左右的非常引人注目的毛利率，以及未來幾年在 39% 至 44% 的範圍內。 。

Okay. Very clear. And then maybe just as my follow-up, Hanneke, just in terms of -- it's felt for a few months now, you've emphasized M&A a bit more than your predecessor. Logitech hasn't really made a large acquisition in, I'd say, over a decade, at least one that would move the needle. And you have very clearly spent a lot on shareholder returns. And so I guess, big picture, are you -- is it your view you're going to lean more into what I would kind of call transformational M&A prior -- more than prior executives?

好的。非常清楚。然後，也許就像我的繼任者漢內克（Hanneke）​​一樣，就幾個月來的感覺而言，您比您的前任更強調併購。我想說，十多年來，羅技還沒有真正進行過大規模收購，至少沒有一次能起到推動作用。很明顯，你們在股東回報上花了很多錢。所以我想，從大局來看，您是否認為您會比以前的高階主管更傾向於我所說的轉型性併購？

Is that kind of how the Board is thinking about this? Is this how shareholders are thinking about the future? And would that be still be incremental to your capital returns? Or would that capital, excuse me, cannibalize some of what you've been returning to shareholders? Obviously, a very strong balance sheet. But just how should we think about those different dynamics going forward?

董事會是這樣考慮的嗎？這就是股東對未來的看法嗎？這仍然會增加您的資本回報嗎？或者，請問，這些資本是否會蠶食您返還給股東的部分資金？顯然，資產負債表非常強勁。但我們該如何思考未來這些不同的動態呢？

Sure. Thanks, Erik. I can't speak for my predecessor. But what I'm hoping to get across here is that our priority right now is organic growth. That's why we're guiding that low single digits, growing to mid-single digits. That's what's under our control. Now on top of that, with our balance sheet, we do have opportunity for M&A. The key is that, that is thoughtful, deliberate and strategic. Size is a factor, but it's just one of many factors. What's more important is that we're really thoughtful because what I've learned over the years is doing the deal is really easy. Making it a success is much harder. So organic growth is what -- is our #1 priority at the moment. But if there's good M&A opportunities, we won't hesitate to take advantage.

當然。謝謝，埃里克。我不能代表我的前任發言。但我希望在這裡傳達的是，我們現在的首要任務是有機成長。這就是為什麼我們引導低個位數成長到中個位數。這就是我們可以控制的。現在最重要的是，根據我們的資產負債表，我們確實有併購的機會。關鍵是，這是深思熟慮的、深思熟慮的、策略性的。尺寸是一個因素，但這只是眾多因素之一。更重要的是，我們真的考慮得很周到，因為多年來我了解到，做這筆交易真的很容易。使其成功要困難得多。因此，有機成長是我們目前的第一要務。但如果有好的併購機會，我們會毫不猶豫地抓住。

Our last question today is from Michael Foeth at Vontobel.

今天我們的最後一個問題來自 Vontobel 的 Michael Foeth。

Two questions from my side. You mentioned the expansion of your sort of mice and keyboards or work business into or outside of the office. Can you maybe be a bit more specific on what sort of applications you have in mind there and how that should significantly increase your addressable market? And the second question is regarding your brand strategy. I was wondering how you -- how and when you plan to phase out those brands like your UE and Logitech G and, you name them, all the sub brands, if you want.

我這邊有兩個問題。您提到將您的滑鼠和鍵盤或工作業務擴展到辦公室內外。您能否更具體地說明您想要的應用程式類型以及這將如何顯著增加您的潛在市場？第二個問題是關於您的品牌策略。我想知道您計劃如何以及何時逐步淘汰 UE 和羅技 G 等品牌，以及所有子品牌（如果您願意的話）。

Great. Let me take that second one first because I can be quite brief. We are not phasing out Logitech G. So Logitech G is Logitech. So -- and the G stands for gaming, which makes sense. So if I insinuated that back, I was not clear. So Logitech and Logitech G are very much part of the same mother brand, and we're going to do our darndest best to make those iconic. 97% of Logitech's revenue today is in Logitech and Logitech G. So the multi-brand strategy was a big talking point. But in reality, most of it is actually Logitech and Logitech G. So that's where our focus will be.

偉大的。讓我先講第二個問題，因為我的發言可能會很短。我們不會逐步淘汰羅技 G。所以——G 代表遊戲，這是有道理的。所以如果我暗示這一點，我並不清楚。因此，羅技和羅技 G 很大程度上屬於同一個母品牌，我們將盡最大努力使它們成為標誌性的產品。如今，羅技 97% 的收入來自羅技和羅技 G。但實際上，大部分實際上是羅技和羅技 G。

Great question on work. So again, most people in the work world don't work in offices. So we are starting to put our toes into the water on some of these other spaces that I talked about. Education is a good example, a very large work market and one where our existing product portfolio can be curated to play quite effectively, so -- and we have started to sell into education. We saw really good growth, actually, in the fourth quarter on that business.

關於工作的好問題。再說一次，職場上的大多數人並不在辦公室工作。因此，我們開始涉足我談到的其他一些空間。教育就是一個很好的例子，它是一個非常大的工作市場，我們現有的產品組合可以在其中發揮非常有效的作用，所以——我們已經開始向教育領域銷售。事實上，我們在第四季度看到了該業務的良好成長。

One example is headsets, which are important in schools. We sell headsets. We have absolutely superior headset technology. What you need in elementary schools is the smaller headsets and headsets that are more robust because kids throw their headsets around. So with relatively limited R&D adjustments, we make the very best headsets for education. We started to sell those, again, with very encouraging results and a very large TAM.

耳機就是一個例子，它在學校中很重要。我們賣耳機。我們擁有絕對卓越的耳機技術。在小學，您需要的是更小的耳機和更堅固的耳機，因為孩子們會到處亂扔耳機。因此，透過相對有限的研發調整，我們製造出了最好的教育耳機。我們再次開始銷售這些產品，並取得了非常令人鼓舞的結果和非常大的 TAM。

And what I personally like is some of the testing we've done with schools in America. Turns out that kids using our headsets have more peace and quiet and actually read 40% more books in class than before. So I love it when we really deliver on consumer and family needs like that and grow the business incrementally from it.

我個人喜歡的是我們與美國學校所做的一些測驗。事實證明，使用我們耳機的孩子們更加平靜，在課堂上閱讀的書籍數量實際上比以前多了 40%。因此，當我們真正滿足消費者和家庭的需求並從中逐步發展業務時，我很高興。

And with that, Hanneke, that's our last question for today.

漢內克，這是我們今天的最後一個問題。

Great. Thanks, everyone. And again, yes, thanks, Chuck, his last hooray. It's been a real pleasure to work together, and I look forward to seeing you all again.

偉大的。感謝大家。再次，是的，謝謝，查克，他最後的萬歲。一起工作真的很愉快，我期待再次見到你們。