羅技 (LOGI) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and good afternoon. Welcome to Logitech's video call to discuss our financial results for the fourth quarter and full year of fiscal 2023. Joining us today are Bracken Darrell, our President and CEO; and Chuck Boynton, our CFO. As a reminder, during this call, we will make forward-looking statements, including with respect to future operating results under the safe harbor of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

早上好，下午好。歡迎參加羅技的視頻電話會議，討論我們 2023 財年第四季度和全年的財務業績。今天加入我們的是我們的總裁兼首席執行官 Bracken Darrell；和我們的首席財務官 Chuck Boynton。提醒一下，在本次電話會議期間，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，包括根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》的安全港規定的未來經營業績。

We're making these statements based on our views only as of today. Our actual results could differ materially. We undertake no obligation to update or revise any of these statements. We will also discuss non-GAAP financial results. You can find a reconciliation between non-GAAP and GAAP results and information about our use of non-GAAP measures and factors that could impact our financial results and forward-looking statements in our press release and in our filings with the SEC.

我們僅根據截至今天的觀點發表這些聲明。我們的實際結果可能存在重大差異。我們不承擔更新或修改任何這些聲明的義務。我們還將討論非 GAAP 財務結果。您可以在我們的新聞稿和提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中找到非 GAAP 和 GAAP 結果之間的對賬，以及有關我們使用非 GAAP 措施和可能影響我們財務業績和前瞻性陳述的因素的信息。

These materials as well as our prepared remarks and slides and a webcast of this call are all available at the Investor Relations page of our website. We encourage you to review these materials carefully. Unless noted otherwise, comparisons between periods are year-over-year and in constant currency and net sales. This call is being recorded and will be available for a replay on our website. I will now turn the call over to Bracken. Bracken?

這些材料以及我們準備好的評論和幻燈片以及本次電話會議的網絡廣播都可以在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上找到。我們鼓勵您仔細閱讀這些材料。除非另有說明，各時期之間的比較是按年比較，並以固定匯率和淨銷售額計算。此通話正在錄音中，可以在我們的網站上重播。我現在將把電話轉給 Bracken。蕨菜？

Thank you, Nat. Thanks all of you for joining us. Today, I am joining you from New York. This really is a hybrid call. I think Chuck is in -- I know Chuck is in California and Nat, I believe you're in Dallas. So we're really all over. about 60 days ago, we provided an overview of our business and our outlook for the coming fiscal year, and Chuck will cover the details. But big picture, we ended this year within our latest outlook. And the outlook for the first half of fiscal year '24 remains unchanged.

謝謝你，奈特。感謝大家加入我們。今天，我從紐約和你們會合。這確實是一個混合調用。我認為 Chuck 在——我知道 Chuck 在加利福尼亞，而 Nat，我相信你在達拉斯。所以我們真的結束了。大約 60 天前，我們概述了我們的業務以及我們對下一財年的展望，Chuck 將介紹詳細信息。但總的來說，我們在最新展望中結束了今年。 24 財年上半年的前景保持不變。

Most of the macroeconomic and geopolitical issues that impacted our fiscal year '23 results continue. Central banks are raising rates to combat inflation, consumer confidence remains lower, and overall demand from enterprises remains tepid. As I look at factors that are more directly impacting our business, it's a mixed bag. There are positive signs. The dollars weakening thankfully, shipping rates, lead times and our reliance on expedited shipping are nearing pre-pandemic levels.

大多數影響我們 23 財年業績的宏觀經濟和地緣政治問題仍在繼續。央行加息抗通脹，消費者信心低迷，企業整體需求不溫不火。當我查看更直接影響我們業務的因素時，它是一個混合包。有積極的跡象。值得慶幸的是，美元走軟，運費、交貨時間和我們對加急運輸的依賴已接近大流行前的水平。

Promotional levels are normalizing, and supply chains appear to be a problem of the past. However, industry layoffs continue, the way companies handle return to the office continues to be uncertain. And we're not yet seeing refresh cycles kick in for products that were in high demand during the pandemic. As we said last quarter, these conflicting economic signals has created an environment with low visibility and a bias towards managing our business conservatively.

促銷水平正在正常化，供應鏈問題似乎已成為過去。然而，行業裁員仍在繼續，公司處理重返辦公室的方式仍然不確定。而且我們還沒有看到大流行期間需求量很大的產品開始更新周期。正如我們上個季度所說，這些相互矛盾的經濟信號造成了一個低能見度的環境，並且傾向於保守地管理我們的業務。

Adjusting our business to meet the market opportunity is something that is not new to us. We adopted throughout the pandemic when we face supply chain, logistics and manufacturing challenges. And we're adapting now. To reshape our organization for more nimble decision-making, faster product design cycles, meeting evolving customer needs quickly and fluidly and improving our speed to market.

調整我們的業務以滿足市場機遇對我們來說並不新鮮。當我們面臨供應鏈、物流和製造挑戰時，我們在整個大流行期間都採用了這種方法。我們現在正在適應。重塑我們的組織以實現更靈活的決策制定、更快的產品設計週期、快速流暢地滿足不斷變化的客戶需求並提高我們的上市速度。

So while acknowledging the macro headwinds, we ended Q4 in a solid position, our sales teams closed a number of meaningful customer deals. We closed one with Snowflake, for example, and representing multiple industries as well as education and government contracts. We released 52 new products in fiscal year '23. And while it takes time to scale these launches that demonstrates a commitment to product innovation, we won a record number of design awards.

因此，在承認宏觀不利因素的同時，我們以穩固的狀態結束了第四季度，我們的銷售團隊完成了許多有意義的客戶交易。例如，我們用 Snowflake 關閉了一個，代表多個行業以及教育和政府合同。我們在 23 財年發布了 52 種新產品。雖然擴大這些展示產品創新承諾的發布需要時間，但我們贏得了創紀錄數量的設計獎項。

The latest number is over 160 for the full year, 82 in the fourth quarter alone. Innovation is the key engine of this business and it's firing on all cylinders. Our commitment to sustainability is absolutely unwavering. In fact, we now have nearly 45% of our products with carbon labels. I believe there's no other company of our size or bigger, near this level.

最新數字全年超過160個，僅第四季度就有82個。創新是這項業務的關鍵引擎，它正在全速運轉。我們對可持續發展的承諾絕對堅定不移。事實上，我們現在有近 45% 的產品帶有碳標籤。我相信沒有其他公司的規模或更大，接近這個水平。

We quickly reduced operating expenses to match the revenue reality. Revenue decline in OpEx reductions were down equally on a percentage basis for the year. As I indicated last quarter and at our Analyst and Investor Day, our fiscal year '23 results were disappointing. But as I always say to myself, it's time to draw a line behind our heels, learn from the past, but move forward, and that's exactly what we're doing. We remain committed to the long-term growth trends, markets, strategy and business model we have in place.

我們迅速減少了運營費用以適應收入的實際情況。今年，運營支出減少的收入下降按百分比計算同樣下降。正如我在上個季度以及我們的分析師和投資者日指出的那樣，我們 23 財年的業績令人失望。但正如我經常對自己說的那樣，是時候劃清界線了，從過去吸取教訓，但繼續前進，而這正是我們正在做的。我們仍然致力於我們現有的長期增長趨勢、市場、戰略和商業模式。

So looking ahead, you should expect us to operate the business in a disciplined manner consistent with what we've demonstrated over the last few quarters. We will continue to adjust our expenses in line with the market. We'll continue to invest in product development. We have plans to introduce a whole line of new -- a whole series of new products across gaming, video collaboration and keyboards and mice in the quarters to come. and we will continue to improve and refine our global go-to-market capabilities.

因此，展望未來，您應該期望我們以與過去幾個季度所展示的一致的紀律方式經營業務。我們將繼續根據市場調整我們的開支。我們將繼續投資於產品開發。我們計劃在未來幾個季度推出一系列新產品——涵蓋遊戲、視頻協作以及鍵盤和鼠標的一系列新產品。我們將繼續改進和完善我們的全球上市能力。

I'm confident that the big durable trends we've been highlighting, video everywhere, hybrid work and the explosion of gaming and content creation will drive growth. Challenging times always sharpen your focus. And in fiscal year '23 -- and the fiscal year '23 definitely sharpened ours, we quickly resized in a prudent methodical fashion while remaining committed to the keystone of our business, product innovation or as I think of it, design-led engineering.

我相信，我們一直強調的重大持久趨勢、視頻無處不在、混合工作以及遊戲和內容創作的爆炸式增長將推動增長。充滿挑戰的時代總會磨礪你的注意力。在 23 財年——以及 23 財年無疑加強了我們的業務，我們以謹慎、有條不紊的方式迅速調整了規模，同時繼續致力於我們業務的基石、產品創新或我認為的以設計為主導的工程。

We are confident that we've taken the appropriate steps to spring load our categories for growth as we exit this economic cycle and move ahead. One final point before I turn it over to Chuck. I've said a little this before, but it match repeating. I said earlier that 45% of our products now include carbon labeling. This is a huge deal for Logitech but it could be an even bigger deal for the world. I'd like to point out that we're not trying to create competitive advantage here. We'd love the chance to help others, including competitors to advance carbon labeling.

我們相信，隨著我們退出這個經濟周期並向前邁進，我們已經採取了適當的措施來為我們的類別增加增長。在我把它交給查克之前的最後一點。我之前已經說過一點，但它匹配重複。我之前說過，我們 45% 的產品現在都包含碳標籤。這對羅技來說是一筆巨大的交易，但對世界來說可能是一筆更大的交易。我想指出，我們並不是要在這裡創造競爭優勢。我們希望有機會幫助其他人，包括競爭對手推進碳標籤。

So please, for those of you listening, consumers, investors, analysts and our competitors, you can have an impact, a big one. I'd ask that next time you're interacting with any company, including your own, ask them about their approach to carbon labeling. We can move this ahead so much faster for the betterment of our customers and for the world.

所以，對於你們這些聽眾，消費者、投資者、分析師和我們的競爭對手，你們可以產生影響，一個很大的影響。我會問，下次你與任何公司（包括你自己的公司）互動時，詢問他們關於碳標籤的方法。為了改善我們的客戶和世界，我們可以更快地推進這一進程。

Carbon labels on all our products can be the new calorie. -- and that will drive competition and bring down carbon levels. With that, I'll hand it over to Chuck to provide some additional color on Q4 and fiscal year '22 results. Chuck? And Chuck, I want you to notice that I wore my jacket. I felt so much pressure from you. You said until we have growth, you have to wear a jacket to the earnings calls. And I don't like we're in jacket, so I hope it's not long.

我們所有產品上的碳標籤都可以是新卡路里。 ——這將推動競爭並降低碳水平。有了這個，我將把它交給查克，為第四季度和 22 財年的結果提供一些額外的顏色。查克？查克，我想讓你注意到我穿著夾克。我從你身上感受到了很大的壓力。您說過，在我們實現增長之前，您必須穿上夾克才能參加財報電話會議。而且我不喜歡我們穿夾克，所以我希望時間不會太長。

Well, you look great, Bracken. Well, thank you, and I appreciate you all joining our call today. Our silicon valley site is being relocated. So I'm calling in from my house today using a 4K Brio webcam, the Logidock and our MX Series mouse and keyboard. Next quarter, we should be in our new office in San Jose.

嗯，你看起來很棒，布雷肯。好吧，謝謝你們，感謝你們今天加入我們的電話會議。我們的矽谷站點正在搬遷。因此，我今天使用 4K Brio 網絡攝像頭、Logidock 和我們的 MX 系列鼠標和鍵盤從家裡打電話進來。下個季度，我們應該在聖何塞的新辦公室。

Now let me delve into the fourth quarter and full year in greater detail. Our Q4 and full year results were in line with the revised outlook we shared during our Analyst Day in March. For the quarter, net sales in constant currency declined by 20% to $960 million. For the full year, net sales were down 13% to $4.5 billion. Examining our category performance, results were in line with expectations with continued pressure in video collaboration down 25% and gaming down 22% due to a slowdown in simulation, while our creativity and productivity categories either held steady or improved sequentially.

現在讓我更詳細地研究第四季度和全年。我們的第四季度和全年業績與我們在 3 月份的分析師日分享的修訂後展望一致。本季度，按固定匯率計算的淨銷售額下降 20% 至 9.6 億美元。全年淨銷售額下降 13% 至 45 億美元。檢查我們的類別表現，結果符合預期，由於模擬放緩，視頻協作的持續壓力下降了 25%，遊戲下降了 22%，而我們的創造力和生產力類別保持穩定或連續改善。

In Q4, gross margins were in line with our expectations, decreasing year-over-year to 36.3% and -- for the year, gross margins were 38.3%, down 340 basis points compared to fiscal year '22. Margins were pressured throughout the year due to unfavorable currency movements, inflation-driven cost increases and product mix. As we transition to fiscal year '24, we anticipate the weakening U.S. dollar-euro exchange rate and lower manufacturing costs to contribute to improved gross margins. We judiciously reduced operating expenses over the year while continuing to invest in our product innovation, initiatives and enterprise selling capabilities. Operating income was $82 million in Q4 and $589 million for the full year. Operating income in both the quarter and the year reflected lower demand and gross margin pressure, partially offset by reductions in operating expenses. Cash flow from operations was $217 million in Q4 and $534 million for the full year. Our ending cash balance was over $1.1 billion. Notably, we returned a total of $577 million to shareholders in fiscal year '23 through our share repurchase program and dividend payment.

第四季度，毛利率符合我們的預期，同比下降至 36.3%，全年毛利率為 38.3%，與 22 財年相比下降了 340 個基點。由於不利的貨幣走勢、通脹驅動的成本增加和產品組合，全年利潤率都受到壓力。隨著我們過渡到 24 財年，我們預計美元兌歐元匯率走軟和製造成本降低將有助於提高毛利率。我們明智地減少了這一年的運營費用，同時繼續投資於我們的產品創新、計劃和企業銷售能力。第四季度營業收入為 8200 萬美元，全年營業收入為 5.89 億美元。本季度和全年的營業收入都反映出較低的需求和毛利率壓力，部分被營業費用的減少所抵消。第四季度的運營現金流為 2.17 億美元，全年為 5.34 億美元。我們的期末現金餘額超過 11 億美元。值得注意的是，我們在 23 財年通過股票回購計劃和股息支付向股東返還了總計 5.77 億美元。

In March, we outlined our intentions to quickly address 2 opportunities: one, improve our cash conversion cycle by reducing on-hand inventory and optimizing channel inventory; and two, reduced operating expenses to a run rate of $1 billion. Although less than 2 months have passed since we presented these plans, I'm encouraged by the strong momentum on both fronts. I'm pleased to report that our on-hand inventory was down for the fourth consecutive quarter with Q4 seeing the biggest reduction of the year.

3 月，我們概述了快速解決 2 個機會的意圖：一是通過減少現有庫存和優化渠道庫存來改善我們的現金周轉週期；第二，將運營費用減少到 10 億美元。儘管我們提出這些計劃還不到 2 個月，但我對這兩個方面的強勁勢頭感到鼓舞。我很高興地報告，我們的現有庫存連續第四個季度下降，第四季度降幅最大。

Our goal over the next year or so is to continuously improve inventory turns to 5 or better. Furthermore, we plan to keep reducing channel inventory in the first half of the year before the normal build to the December quarter. As we mentioned during Analyst Day, we believe lower channel and on-net inventory provide better economics for us and our partners in the value chain. We are maintaining the outlook we provided in March, expecting H1 fiscal year '24 revenue of $1.8 billion to $1.9 billion, down approximately 22% to 18% compared to the prior year in U.S. dollars.

我們未來一年左右的目標是不斷將庫存周轉率提高到 5 或更好。此外，我們計劃在正常建設到 12 月季度之前的上半年繼續減少渠道庫存。正如我們在分析師日提到的那樣，我們相信較低的渠道和網上庫存為我們和我們在價值鏈中的合作夥伴提供了更好的經濟效益。我們維持我們在 3 月份提供的展望，預計 24 財年上半年的收入為 18 億美元至 19 億美元，與去年同期相比下降約 22% 至 18%（以美元計算）。

Our corresponding operating income is expected to be between $160 million and $190 million, down approximately 47% to 37%. Nate, we can now open the line for questions.

我們相應的營業收入預計在 1.6 億美元至 1.9 億美元之間，下降約 47% 至 37%。 Nate，我們現在可以開始提問了。

(Operator Instructions) First question comes from Paul Chung at JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）第一個問題來自摩根大通的 Paul Chung。

So First up, on gross margins, for 4Q would have thought there would be better improvement and kind of easing supply chain headwinds. What drove the pressures there? I know D.C. and gaming mix has come down a bit, which may have driven some impact there. What do you see as temporary? And as we move into the next year, how should we think about those variables easing and kind of impact on gross margins, at least in the first half.

因此，首先，在毛利率方面，第四季度本以為會有更好的改善和緩解供應鏈逆風。是什麼推動了那裡的壓力？我知道華盛頓特區和遊戲組合有所下降，這可能對那裡產生了一些影響。你認為什麼是暫時的？隨著我們進入明年，我們應該如何考慮這些變數的緩和以及對毛利率的影響，至少在上半年是這樣。

Okay. Chuck, do you want to take that one?

好的。查克，你要拿那個嗎？

Yes, certainly. Thank you, Paul. Our overall margins for the quarter were roughly in line with our expectations. We -- the Operations team did a phenomenal job reducing costs. But with inventory turns, we won't see the benefit of that cost reduction until next quarter as it flows through. Q4 -- kind of compared to Q3, we did have some minor inventory charges. The mix issue as I identified in the prepared remarks.

是的，當然了。謝謝你，保羅。我們本季度的整體利潤率大致符合我們的預期。我們 - 運營團隊在降低成本方面做得非常出色。但是隨著庫存周轉，我們要到下個季度才能看到成本降低的好處。第 4 季度——與第 3 季度相比，我們確實有一些小的庫存費用。我在準備好的評論中指出的混合問題。

And looking forward, we see tailwinds with FX, lower costs and obviously, not the same inventory charges. On longer term, we expect to be in that long-term operating model of 39 to low 40s over time.

展望未來，我們看到了外彙的順風、更低的成本，而且顯然，庫存費用不一樣。從長遠來看，我們預計隨著時間的推移將處於 39 到 40 的長期運營模式。

Okay. Great. And then second, on VC, in your prepared remarks, you kind of mentioned kind of typical ASP per room has been increasing, which is great. Can you help us size both the opportunity to expand conference rooms? Where do you think that ASP can go when volume comes back and which peripherals you're seeing the most success in the conference rooms?

好的。偉大的。其次，關於 VC，在你準備好的評論中，你提到了每個房間的典型 ASP 一直在增加，這很好。你能幫助我們確定擴大會議室的機會嗎？當音量恢復時，您認為 ASP 會走向何方？您認為哪些外圍設備在會議室中最成功？

Yes. So I think the cool thing about our business model is there's just a lot of room to continue to increase the ASP per room. If you think about it, we announced something called site, which all of you have seen -- and most of you have seen, which is just about -- it's soon going to be out. And it's another peripheral basically for the room.

是的。所以我認為我們的商業模式很酷的一點是，有很大的空間可以繼續提高每間客房的平均售價。如果你想一想，我們宣布了一個叫做網站的東西，你們所有人都看到了——而且你們中的大多數人都看到了——它很快就會出來。它基本上是房間的另一個外圍設備。

You get a rally bar, rally bar mini, you add that into the middle of the table and suddenly you've got an equitable meeting. So that's an example. You've also got white boards, which at $1,000 a unit. You can drop into a conference room and suddenly a camera, your white board -- whatever kind of white board you're using becomes a participant. So we have lots of ways to increase the value per room. So I'm very optimistic long term that the ASPs can go up.

你得到一個拉力桿，迷你拉力桿，你把它加到桌子中間，突然間你就有了一個公平的會議。這就是一個例子。您還有白板，每塊 1,000 美元。你可以走進一間會議室，突然間，一個攝像頭，你的白板——無論你使用的是哪種白板，都會成為參與者。所以我們有很多方法可以增加每個房間的價值。因此，從長遠來看，我非常樂觀地認為 ASP 可以上漲。

Any of the number of rooms that will be enabled continues to be a very high number. We just got to get through this current period where people are kind of scratching their heads saying, "I'm not really sure not all people, but a lot of all companies, but a lot of companies are saying, I'm not quite sure what we're doing yet."

任何將啟用的房間數量仍然是一個非常高的數量。我們剛剛度過了當前這個時期，人們有點撓頭說，“我不太確定不是所有人，但很多公司，但很多公司都說，我不太確定確定我們在做什麼。”

We're a good example. We're closing one office, we're opening another office. And then the new office, we know exactly what we're doing from a video enablement standpoint, but a lot of other people are lagging us they're either -- they really haven't completely decided what to do with the current office they're doing the minimum or they're saving money because they're going through this economic cycle, too or they're going to do it, but it's going to come later. So I'm not hearing anybody say, gosh, video enablement of rooms is a bad idea. It's just timing.

我們就是一個很好的例子。我們正在關閉一個辦公室，我們正在開設另一個辦公室。然後是新辦公室，從視頻支持的角度來看，我們確切地知道我們在做什麼，但是很多其他人都落後於我們——他們真的還沒有完全決定如何處理他們目前的辦公室他們正在做最少的事情，或者他們正在省錢，因為他們也正在經歷這個經濟周期，或者他們打算這樣做，但它會在以後出現。所以我沒有聽到任何人說，天哪，房間的視頻支持是個壞主意。這只是時機。

And I would just add, Bracken, the market sizing that we talked about at Analyst Day is roughly 50 million conference rooms with approximately 10% penetration. Certainly, what you're seeing, I think, is we've won some great deals this quarter, a large food company, Bracken mentioned one of the tech giants. So we're winning lots of deals. They tend to be smaller upfront with additional purchases as they reoutfit their rooms over time. So we're bullish on video long term, and it's a great category. These new products, I think, will provide additional fuel for growth long term.

我只想補充一點，布拉肯，我們在分析師日談到的市場規模大約是 5000 萬個會議室，滲透率約為 10%。當然，我認為你所看到的是我們本季度贏得了一些大型食品公司的大筆交易，Bracken 提到了其中一家科技巨頭。所以我們贏得了很多交易。隨著時間的推移，他們會重新裝修房間，因此他們往往會通過額外購買來減少前期費用。所以我們長期看好視頻，這是一個很好的類別。我認為，這些新產品將為長期增長提供額外的動力。

One other thing we didn't mention, Paul, was service. It's a really small business for us today, but it's going to keep growing, and it's growing rapidly. And every time you buy a room, you really ought to be getting the service that goes with it. and our service package called Select. And it's growing, like I said, it's growing very rapidly. And I think one day, they will be a pretty decent chunk of our revenue.

保羅，我們沒有提到的另一件事是服務。今天對我們來說這是一個非常小的企業，但它將繼續增長，而且增長迅速。每次您購買房間時，您真的應該得到相應的服務。以及我們名為 Select 的服務包。它正在增長，就像我說的，增長非常迅速。我認為有一天，它們將占我們收入的很大一部分。

Up is Alex Duval from Goldman Sachs.

上是來自高盛的 Alex Duval。

Firstly, on OpEx done a very strong job controlling that. I just wondered how much more OpEx control you think can be done. Should we expect further cost reductions this fiscal year versus fiscal '23? Or is fiscal fourth quarter indicative of a new run rate going forward? And secondly, some investors have been asking about PC suppliers, which have indicated there could be a possibility of stabilizing PC demand in the second half of the year? Curious to what extent your PC linked revenues could benefit from such a recovery? Any color there, very much appreciated.

首先，OpEx 在控制方面做得非常好。我只是想知道您認為可以完成多少 OpEx 控制。與 23 財年相比，我們是否應該期望本財年進一步降低成本？還是第四財季預示著未來的新運行率？其次，一些投資者一直在詢問PC供應商，有沒有表示下半年PC需求可能會企穩？想知道您的 PC 相關收入在多大程度上可以從這種複蘇中受益？那裡有任何顏色，非常感謝。

I'll just touch on each one and then, Chuck, you can clean up whatever you feel like I didn't cover. I think we've been super clear that we want to get to $1 billion run rate on our OpEx as we get past this first half and into the latter half of the year. and that's where we're headed. So no, our current run rate is not quite where we want to be yet, but we'll get there.

我將逐一介紹，然後，查克，你可以清理任何你認為我沒有涵蓋的內容。我認為我們已經非常清楚，隨著我們度過上半年和下半年，我們希望我們的 OpEx 達到 10 億美元的運行率。這就是我們要去的地方。所以不，我們目前的運行率還沒有達到我們想要的水平，但我們會達到的。

The second, on your second question, we've been pretty clear that we think the PC category is kind of not linked as driver of our peripheral business. However, it is probably indicative of what's happening in one way, which is that if -- especially in the B2B business, if people are cutting spending on PCs, they're probably also kind of spending on peripherals. So yes, I think there's some relationship. We'll see what happens. We're not guiding back half of the year yet. We continue to feel like the visibility is really hard to call. What do you want to add there, Chuck, on either one of those?

第二，關於你的第二個問題，我們很清楚我們認為 PC 類別與我們外圍業務的驅動力沒有聯繫。然而，它可能以一種方式表明了正在發生的事情，那就是，如果 - 特別是在 B2B 業務中，如果人們正在削減 PC 上的支出，他們可能也會在外圍設備上進行支出。所以是的，我認為有一些關係。我們將看看會發生什麼。我們還沒有指導半年。我們仍然覺得能見度真的很難說。 Chuck，你想在其中任何一個上添加什麼？

Yes. I would just add on the OpEx side. We finished the quarter with $266 million in OpEx. And our plan is to get to $250 million in a quarter by the back end of this year. And so there is -- there are some headwinds on OpEx with FX, which is an overall benefit to the company, but a little bit of a headwind. But -- so the reductions are already mostly completed and we're -- we'll see the numbers come down, I think, each and every quarter up until the middle part of the back half of the year.

是的。我只想在 OpEx 方面添加。我們以 2.66 億美元的運營支出結束了本季度。我們的計劃是到今年年底在一個季度內達到 2.5 億美元。因此，在 FX 的 OpEx 上存在一些不利因素，這對公司來說是一個整體利益，但也有一點不利因素。但是 - 所以削減已經基本完成，我們 - 我們會看到數字下降，我認為，每個季度都會下降，直到今年下半年的中期。

Next question is from Asiya Merchant at Citi.

下一個問題來自花旗的 Asiya Merchant。

Hopefully, you can hear me. So a quick question on gross margins. I think in the past, you guys have provided some breakdown of how FX versus promotions versus inflation have kind of affected margins on a year-on-year or even on a sequential basis. So if you could go through that exercise for the March quarter. And then as you look ahead, I heard Chuck mentioned that margin should improve here as dollar weakens and the inventories rightsized and flow-through of the lower manufacturing costs.

希望你能聽到我的聲音。所以一個關於毛利率的快速問題。我想在過去，你們已經提供了一些細分，說明外匯、促銷和通貨膨脹是如何影響利潤率的，同比甚至是連續的。所以如果你能在三月份的季度完成這個練習。然後當你展望未來時，我聽到查克提到隨著美元走軟、庫存調整和較低製造成本的流動，這裡的利潤率應該會提高。

So what should we kind of expect for, let's say, even the first half of the year, how should we expect those unwinds to happen that for a headwind in the first throughout most of fiscal '23? That's my first question. And then secondly,.

那麼我們應該期待什麼，比方說，即使是今年上半年，我們應該如何預期這些平倉會在 23 財年的大部分時間裡出現逆風？這是我的第一個問題。其次，。

Let me stop you there. Let me -- let's answer it one at a time so we can really focus on it. And Chuck, you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we've been saying that about 300 basis points were inflation, a couple of hundred basis points for currency and then there was a few other drips and drabs, 100 basis points on transportation, et cetera. I think all that is coming through. It's just coming through slowly. And as it would, it has to work its way through our inventory, which takes time. And we've got a pretty long inventory cycle and we were sitting on more inventory than we would have liked before. Do you want to add anything to that, Chuck?

讓我在那裡阻止你。讓我——讓我們一次回答一個問題，這樣我們才能真正專注於它。查克，如果我錯了你會糾正我，但我想我們一直在說大約 300 個基點是通貨膨脹，幾百個基點是通貨膨脹，然後還有一些其他的點點滴滴，100交通等方面的基點。我認為這一切都在發生。它只是慢慢來。而且，它必須通過我們的庫存，這需要時間。而且我們的庫存週期很長，而且我們的庫存比我們以前希望的要多。你想補充什麼嗎，查克？

Yes. I think that's good. And yes, sequentially, that's sort of a year-over-year view. Sequentially, inventory charges were a couple of hundred basis points and mix was a couple of hundred. So those are ones -- mix, it's hard to predict, but inventory FX, costs, I think, are all transitory, and I think we should see sequential improvement slowly throughout the year.

是的。我覺得這樣很好。是的，按順序，這是一種年復一年的觀點。隨後，庫存費用為幾百個基點，混合費用為幾百個。所以那些是 - 混合，很難預測，但我認為庫存外匯，成本都是暫時的，我認為我們應該看到全年的連續改善。

Sorry to interrupt...

抱歉打擾...

Promotions -- No, that's fine -- was there any effect just people are trying to understand what the effect of promotions have been? Is there a competitive -- that kind of goes into my second question. The competitive dynamics. You talked about gaming being soft. We heard from GN, I guess, Jabra in Europe that they had done well in gaming. So maybe you can talk a little bit about the competitive dynamics, both on the gaming side and just broadly how it's affecting margins, whether there's been an increased competitive intensity here and if you see that easing as the year progresses?

促銷 - 不，這很好 - 人們試圖了解促銷的效果是否有任何影響？是否存在競爭——這是我的第二個問題。競爭動態。你談到遊戲是軟的。我們從 GN（我想是歐洲的 Jabra）那裡聽說他們在遊戲方面做得很好。所以也許你可以談談競爭動態，無論是在遊戲方面，還是從廣義上講，它是如何影響利潤率的，這裡的競爭強度是否有所增加，以及你是否看到隨著時間的推移這種情況有所緩和？

First, let me -- I don't know their earnings quite well enough to know, but I have a hunch, the difference between us and them is simply category difference. So we have a big simulation business, and we have a huge simulation number in the year ago info. So we certainly don't think we're losing share in gaming. So I think it's probably comparable Chuck, do you want to take anything that. Yes.

首先，讓我——我不太了解他們的收入，但我有一種預感，我們和他們之間的區別僅僅是類別差異。所以我們有一個很大的模擬業務，我們在一年前的信息中有一個巨大的模擬數字。所以我們當然不認為我們正在失去遊戲市場份額。所以我認為它可能與查克相當，你想拿走任何東西嗎？是的。

Yes. I do. So promotional activity sort of went back to normal in Q4. That was a bit of a headwind in Q3, sort of back to normal in Q4. Competitive positioning. I think we feel great in gaming. Our business -- our gaming businesses were very, very much larger than theirs is. So it's -- when you compare the categories, we have different categories like simulation that they're not in, that's a great category with terrific margins. That was down quarter-over-quarter given the kind of promotional bump from the December quarter

是的。我願意。因此，促銷活動在第四季度恢復正常。這在第三季度有點不利，在第四季度恢復正常。競爭定位。我認為我們在遊戲中感覺很棒。我們的業務——我們的遊戲業務比他們的要大得多。所以它是——當你比較這些類別時，我們有不同的類別，比如他們不在的模擬，這是一個非常好的類別，利潤率非常高。考慮到去年 12 月季度的促銷活動，這一數字環比下降

an year ago.

一年前。

Okay. All right. And so just competitive intensity going forward, whether it's VC, with HP Polly, whether it's gaming, are we trying to -- are we seeing like as the inventory digestion has happened, competition is kind of going back to normal promo and so there isn't this excessive hunt to reduce inventory in the channel.

好的。好的。因此，未來的競爭強度，無論是風險投資，還是 HP Polly，無論是遊戲，我們是否正在努力——我們是否看到庫存消化已經發生，競爭有點回歸正常促銷，所以有'這種過度的獵殺減少了渠道中的庫存。

I don't...

我不...

Yes, go ahead, Chuck.

是的，去吧，查克。

The B2B side is not as price sensitive as the consumer side. So I don't think the video category is very price sensitive. The margins are terrific and the industry participants have been behaving rationally. And so that's really more, I think, just this kind of general issue around the economy and uncertainty that's happening with corporate buyers. But the overall large conference or a medium conference room business is kind of stable.

B2B 端不像消費者端那樣對價格敏感。所以我認為視頻類別對價格不是很敏感。利潤率非常高，行業參與者一直表現得很理性。因此，我認為，這真的更多，只是圍繞經濟的這種普遍問題以及企業買家正在發生的不確定性。但整體大型會議或中型會議室業務還是比較穩定的。

It's not really taking off and growing, but it's not really going down either. So I think that's really more just the early indicators look good, but I think what the overall uncertainty that will come back. Other areas like web cams, I think you see more price sensitivity.

它並沒有真正起飛和增長，但也沒有真正下降。所以我認為這實際上只是早期指標看起來不錯，但我認為總體不確定性會回來。網絡攝像頭等其他領域，我認為您會看到更多的價格敏感性。

Yes. And we've always got and we do now areas where we feel like we really need to adjust pricing a little bit -- bring pricing down a little heavier, but they tend to be surgical. And so we're -- and without giving you specifics here, I think that's going to continue to happen. But overall, I feel like the promotion intensity is not -- it doesn't scare me right now. I don't feel like there's a big wave of price competition coming through that's going to change the dynamics of our business.

是的。我們一直都有，現在我們正在做一些我們覺得我們確實需要稍微調整定價的領域——把定價降得更重一點，但它們往往是外科手術。所以我們 - 在這裡沒有給你具體細節，我認為這將繼續發生。但總的來說，我覺得促銷強度不是——現在我還不害怕。我不認為即將到來的價格競爭大潮會改變我們業務的動態。

Next on the line is Erik Woodring from Morgan Stanley.

下一位是來自摩根士丹利的埃里克伍德林。

Bracken, maybe if I could ask you a bigger picture question and that is, I appreciate the fact that you're very clear in that visibility is more limited today. Can you maybe just share some comments about why visibility is less limited today? Is it the channel? Is it spending patterns? Is it the impact and the uncertainty of the macro conditions, all of the above. If you could just double click on that to help us understand why perhaps today versus historical periods, you just have less visibility into the business.

布雷肯，也許我可以問你一個更宏觀的問題，也就是說，我很欣賞你非常清楚今天的能見度更加有限這一事實。你能不能分享一些關於為什麼今天能見度不那麼有限的評論？是頻道嗎？是消費模式嗎？是不是宏觀環境的影響和不確定性，以上都有。如果您可以雙擊它來幫助我們理解為什麼今天與歷史時期相比，您對業務的了解就更少了。

That's a great question. I like the way you phrased it. It's really -- it's only the -- just the economic environment we're in. It's just a little hard to see. You don't know you're going to go up until you actually balance. And I think we've been down now for 3 or 4 quarters. And I think it's really hard for us to judge when that direction will change. We think it will change. It's just a question of when. So it's really just that -- I was with -- I was in an event this week where there were a bunch of kind of mid-sized and smaller CEOs, some HR people, et cetera. And I really got this -- it just reinforced my strong feeling and the data that we're seeing, which is that especially on the B2B side, it's not like companies are in trouble. I mean they're okay. They're just spending more conservatively.

這是一個很好的問題。我喜歡你措辭的方式。這真的——這只是——我們所處的經濟環境。只是有點難以看到。在你真正平衡之前，你不知道你會上升。而且我認為我們已經下降了 3 或 4 個季度。而且我認為我們真的很難判斷這個方向何時會改變。我們認為它會改變。只是時間問題。所以這真的只是 - 我和 - 我參加了本週的一個活動，那裡有一群中型和小型首席執行官，一些人力資源人員等等。我真的明白了這一點——它只是強化了我的強烈感覺和我們所看到的數據，尤其是在 B2B 方面，這不像是公司遇到了麻煩。我的意思是他們沒事。他們只是更保守地消費。

And I think that conservatism is pretty -- when you spend conservatively, you tend to have the easiest control over your cost, and that's why a lot of the PC companies are feeling it. We're feeling it. So it's really just that, Eric. And it's really hard for me to say when it will turn, but it will. You could probably go back and look at economic cycles and try to do something, but we decided to just be more conservative and just guide for 6 months and then wait and see quarter-by-quarter.

而且我認為保守主義很漂亮——當你保守地花錢時，你往往最容易控制你的成本，這就是為什麼很多個人電腦公司都感覺到了。我們感覺到了。所以真的就是這樣，埃里克。我真的很難說它什麼時候會轉向，但它會的。你可能會回頭看看經濟周期並嘗試做點什麼，但我們決定更保守一些，只指導 6 個月，然後逐季觀望。

Okay. That's helpful. And then I guess the second question because you guys kind of elaborated to it, but you called out some deals this quarter, which I feel like you don't necessarily do historically. You mentioned Snowflake, Chuck, you mentioned another one. Can you just give us an understanding? I know, Chuck, you mentioned they start small, but are these needle movers? Are these mostly in the VC business? Are they currently embedded into your guidance? Or is this incremental because you just announced them, so I wasn't sure how much line of sight you had 30 or 60 days ago. So again, if you could just elaborate on the impact of those deals, any color you could share on the products and then whether they're incremental or not, that would be helpful.

好的。這很有幫助。然後我猜第二個問題是因為你們對此進行了詳細說明，但你們本季度提出了一些交易，我覺得你們在歷史上不一定這樣做。你提到了雪花，查克，你提到了另一個。你能給我們一個理解嗎？我知道，查克，你提到他們從小做起，但這些是針鋒相對的嗎？這些主要是在風險投資業務中嗎？它們目前是否嵌入到您的指南中？或者這是增量，因為你剛剛宣布了它們，所以我不確定你在 30 或 60 天前有多少視線。所以，如果你能詳細說明這些交易的影響，你可以在產品上分享的任何顏色，然後它們是否是增量的，那將是有幫助的。

I'll jump in, Chuck, you can add. I think we really just felt like, you know what, we should once in a while, call out some of the customers. So you get a feel for the logos. There are a lot of big logos that we don't get permission to talk about publicly for whatever reason. It's not usually that they don't want us to. We just don't go ask them. We did mention Snowflake this time. We talked about the food company. There are many others. I would say they're pretty much part of what our overall game plan. But they are needle movers, but they're not needle movers relative to the expectations you've already said. Do you want to add anything in their Chuck?

我會加入，查克，你可以補充。我想我們真的只是覺得，你知道嗎，我們應該偶爾召集一些客戶。所以你對標誌有一種感覺。無論出於何種原因，我們都沒有獲得公開談論許多大徽標的許可。他們通常不希望我們這樣做。我們只是不去問他們。這次我們確實提到了雪花。我們談到了食品公司。還有很多其他的。我會說它們幾乎是我們整體遊戲計劃的一部分。但他們是推動者，但相對於你已經說過的期望，他們不是推動者。你想在他們的 Chuck 中添加什麼嗎？

Yes, I do. Eric, the key thing is you want to win the company. Now many companies use multiple vendors. So it's not like they're other exclusive, but if you win the account, it tends to be a smaller deal upfront, and then they keep buying more and more and more over a period of years.

是的，我願意。埃里克，關鍵是你想贏得公司。現在許多公司使用多個供應商。所以這不像他們是其他獨家的，但如果你贏得了這個客戶，它往往是一個較小的前期交易，然後他們在幾年內不斷購買越來越多。

So no one transaction is a needle mover for us. but they are really good signs that we've won the account that we can land and expand. And ultimately, that's what we're looking for. And I just want to call out our sales organization because they are just -- they've done a really, really good job of building out this B2B capability. It's a key strategic investment for us, and I think it will bear fruit for years to come.

因此，沒有一項交易對我們來說是推動力。但它們確實是很好的跡象，表明我們已經贏得了我們可以登陸和擴展的客戶。最終，這就是我們要尋找的。我只是想召集我們的銷售組織，因為他們只是——他們在構建這種 B2B 能力方面做得非常非常好。這對我們來說是一項重要的戰略投資，我認為它將在未來幾年取得成果。

And if I could just add, I was just in a large manufacturing companies offices here in New York this week. And it's really interesting. They started very small with us to your point, Chuck. So very small with us about 2 years ago. And now every single room they have has our stuff, and it's an incredible office, by the way. And so that's kind of our game plan where you just really want to land and expand.

如果我可以補充一點，本週我剛剛在紐約的一家大型製造公司的辦公室裡。這真的很有趣。查克，他們從我們這裡開始的時候就很小。大約 2 年前對我們來說非常小。現在他們擁有的每個房間都有我們的東西，順便說一下，這是一個令人難以置信的辦公室。所以這就是我們的遊戲計劃，你真的想著陸和擴張。

If I could tell -- just follow up with one last question, Chuck, this one's for you. Just on gross margins. If we look back over the last 4 years, we have seen sequential compression in gross margins from March into June. The comments I hear from you kind of seem to indicate they might go the other direction and expand from March to June. Can you just maybe help us -- give us a few more pieces to help us understand the directionality of gross margins from March into June and some of the more influential moving pieces there? And that's it for me.

如果我能說 - 就跟進最後一個問題，Chuck，這個問題是給你的。就毛利率而言。如果回顧過去 4 年，我們會發現從 3 月到 6 月毛利率連續下降。我從你那裡聽到的評論似乎表明它們可能會朝另一個方向發展，並從 3 月擴展到 6 月。你能不能幫助我們——再給我們一些東西來幫助我們了解從 3 月到 6 月毛利率的方向以及那裡一些更有影響力的移動件？對我來說就是這樣。

Yes, yes. Thank you, Eric. We're not providing detailed guidance for June. So I would say, let's look over the longer term. We're in this sort of transitory state right now. We brought channel inventory down significantly. So we brought channel inventory down. We're going to continue to take that down in Q1 and Q2 before it builds into Q3. The overall seasonality of the company is such that Q1 and Q2, we actually -- we outlined this at our Analyst Day, if you go back and look, I think if it's like 24% Q1, 24% Q2, 30% Q3, and I think 22% of my math works for Q4, that overall profile if you think about that, you're absorbing more overhead, you have bigger quarters and with taking channel inventory down and revenue being sort of suppressed with reducing channel inventory that hurts gross margins.

是的是的。謝謝你，埃里克。我們沒有提供 6 月的詳細指導。所以我想說，讓我們從長遠來看。我們現在處於這種過渡狀態。我們顯著降低了渠道庫存。所以我們降低了渠道庫存。在進入第三季度之前，我們將繼續在第一季度和第二季度將其降低。公司的整體季節性是第一季度和第二季度，我們實際上 - 我們在我們的分析師日概述了這一點，如果你回頭看看，我想如果它像第一季度 24%，第二季度 24%，第三季度 30%，和我認為我的 22% 的數學適用於第四季度，如果你考慮一下整體情況，你會吸收更多的管理費用，你有更大的季度，並且隨著渠道庫存的減少和收入受到抑制，因為減少渠道庫存會損害總收入邊距。

And then when it expands, it's a benefit. So I look at that and say, I'm not going to say, hey, Q1 of the June quarter, it's back to normal. But I do think by end of Q2, Q3, back half of the year, I expect us to be back to normal. And certainly, no one can predict the currency rates, but that's been a real headwind over the last year or so. It looks like it's getting better and turning, but we just -- we can't be sure. The inventory charges, some of those items, I do think those are a tailwind now.

然後當它擴展時，這是一個好處。所以我看著它說，我不會說，嘿，六月季度的第一季度，它恢復正常了。但我確實認為，到第二季度末、第三季度末，即今年下半年，我預計我們會恢復正常。當然，沒有人可以預測貨幣匯率，但在過去一年左右的時間裡，這確實是一個不利因素。看起來情況正在好轉，但我們只是——我們不能確定。庫存費用，其中一些項目，我確實認為這些現在是順風。

Our next question is from Ananda at Luke.

我們的下一個問題來自 Luke 的 Ananda。

Yes.A couple if I could. I mean, I guess we could just stick right there, Chuck, with your comments around sort of seasonality, do you think that the inventory that remains to be worked down could impact seasonality in September, December quarter meaningfully? Or is the inventory really in businesses where right now, where the impact would be needed? And then I have a quick follow-up.

是的，如果可以的話一對夫婦。我的意思是，我想我們可以堅持下去，查克，你對季節性的評論，你認為仍有待解決的庫存會影響 9 月、12 月季度的季節性嗎？或者庫存是否真的在企業中，現在需要影響的地方？然後我有一個快速跟進。

Yes. I mean, overall, I feel comfortable with where our inventory levels are. I just -- our view is sort of a philosophy is that a lean supply chain is better for everyone. If you think about return invested capital, as I think is the ultimate metric. If you have less on inventory, less channel inventory, it's better economics for everyone. So while our weeks on hand are within the normal operating model, we'd like to get that a little bit leaner because I think that will be better returns for us and the channel.

是的。我的意思是，總的來說，我對我們的庫存水平感到滿意。我只是 - 我們的觀點是一種哲學，即精益供應鏈對每個人都更好。如果你考慮投資回報率，我認為這是最終指標。如果您的庫存和渠道庫存更少，那麼對每個人來說都是更好的經濟效益。因此，雖然我們手頭的幾周是在正常的運營模式內，但我們希望精簡一點，因為我認為這對我們和渠道來說都是更好的回報。

But of course, you have to rebuild the channel inventory because of that seasonality for the December quarter, Black Friday into the Christmas period. So that I believe will happen regardless. But overall, we're comfortable with where the levels are today and even where they were in Q4, we just want to take them down because I think it's better unit economics.

但當然，由於 12 月季度、黑色星期五到聖誕節期間的季節性，您必須重建渠道庫存。所以我相信無論如何都會發生。但總的來說，我們對今天的水平甚至第四季度的水平感到滿意，我們只想降低它們，因為我認為這是更好的單位經濟學。

That's really helpful. I appreciate that. And then, Bracken, I guess for you, you mentioned sort of like kind of off the cuff in the beginning prepared remarks, return to offices on certain refresh cycles haven't kicked in yet. Anything that you guys are seeing that has you think kind of the structural nature that underpins some of the key trends is altering at all. And actually, it could just -- as a part of that, just where are you seeing the refresh cycle? It's not yet kicking in when you think they eventually will kick in. And all good for me.

這真的很有幫助。我很感激。然後，布拉肯，我想對你來說，你在開始準備的評論中提到有點像即興表演，在某些更新周期尚未開始時返回辦公室。你們所看到的任何事情都讓您認為支撐某些關鍵趨勢的結構性本質正在發生根本性的變化。實際上，它可能只是 - 作為其中的一部分，您在哪裡看到刷新周期？當你認為他們最終會開始時，它還沒有開始。對我來說一切都很好。

Yes, thank you. On the refresh cycle, I think we're not yet sitting in a personal workspace. We're not really seeing it kick in yet, which is the mice and keyboards and that kind of thing and even for gaming. So I think that's probably ahead of us, those cycles are 3 to 5 years. So we'll probably see it some of the categories are faster, some are a little longer. On the structural nature of our opportunity, I don't really see anything that's changed. I mean, I think it's pretty much the same. We've just got such a I'm sitting in an office now and the one I'm sitting in now does have video. But if I walk down the hallway, it's amazing to me how many of these offices do not have video.

是的，謝謝。在更新周期中，我認為我們還沒有坐在個人工作區中。我們還沒有真正看到它發揮作用，這是鼠標和鍵盤之類的東西，甚至是遊戲。所以我認為這可能在我們之前，這些週期是 3 到 5 年。所以我們可能會看到一些類別更快，有些會更長一些。關於我們機會的結構性質，我真的沒有看到任何改變。我的意思是，我認為這幾乎是一樣的。我們剛剛有這樣一個我現在坐在辦公室裡，而我現在坐在的辦公室裡確實有視頻。但是，如果我走在走廊上，我會驚訝地發現這些辦公室中有多少沒有視頻。

So I think that's just a reality. And hybrid work has done nothing but make that more obvious to people and more required. I think what has -- so I don't think that's changed. I don't think the need for a home office has changed or to upgrade it. I don't think the reality of gaming or streaming and creating has really changed at all. So I don't see anything really fundamentally structurally that's changed in our view of the category opportunities.

所以我認為這只是一個現實。混合工作除了讓人們更明顯、更需要之外什麼也沒做。我認為發生了什麼 - 所以我認為這沒有改變。我認為對家庭辦公室的需求沒有改變或升級。我認為遊戲或流媒體和創作的現實根本沒有真正改變。因此，在我們對類別機會的看法中，我沒有看到任何真正從根本上改變的結構。

Next in a line is Adam Angelo from Bank of America.

接下來是來自美國銀行的 Adam Angelo。

Yes. So firstly, just a very quick one for Chuck to follow up on what you just answered to a previous question. Gross margins back to normal -- did you mean back to the long-term guidance range? Just quickly on that.

是的。因此，首先，讓 Chuck 快速跟進您剛剛對上一個問題的回答。毛利率恢復正常——你的意思是回到長期指導範圍嗎？很快就可以了。

Yes. I -- it's possible we get there still this year. Q3 generally tends to be really strong gross margins because it is a peak quarter. So I think it's very possible that Q3 is there just because it's such a big, big quarter due to seasonality. But if you think about run rate structurally annually at that kind of 39% to 44%, my guess, it's probably into next year, but that's -- I can't really predict that. But certainly, I think if you look historically, Q4 -- Q3 being our best quarter, we've been typically quite high margins in that Q3 just given the volume.

是的。我 - 今年我們仍有可能到達那裡。第三季度的毛利率通常非常強勁，因為它是一個高峰季度。所以我認為第 3 季度很可能只是因為它是一個非常大的季節性季度。但如果你在結構上考慮每年 39% 到 44% 的運行率，我猜，它可能會進入明年，但那是——我真的無法預測。但當然，我認為如果你從歷史上看，第四季度——第三季度是我們最好的季度，考慮到數量，我們在第三季度的利潤率通常相當高。

Got it. That's helpful. So next, I think just curious on what you saw in China in the quarter? Was there any sequential improvement there? And perhaps as you look into the rest of the year, how you would expect that to develop?

知道了。這很有幫助。那麼接下來，我想對您在本季度在中國看到的情況感到好奇？那裡有任何連續的改進嗎？或許當您展望今年餘下的時間時，您預計它會如何發展？

I'm going to try that one, Chuck, you feel free to jump in. I think China is a little harder for me to judge right now, to be honest. It's usually been just kind of consistently up until the right. I think it's been choppy over the last kind of year. It is highly competitive there. It's opened up but not as much as you would like. So it's not quite where back where it used to be. But I feel very confident in sort of longer term, I think the dynamics in China are great. You've got such a young population. Everybody is moving into the workforce and moving up in the workforce, and there's more and more knowledge workers.

我要試試那個，查克，你可以隨意加入。老實說，我認為中國現在對我來說有點難以判斷。它通常一直持續到右邊。我認為它在過去的一年裡一直起伏不定。那裡競爭非常激烈。它打開了，但沒有你想要的那麼多。所以它並不完全回到原來的位置。但從長遠來看，我很有信心，我認為中國的發展勢頭很好。你有這麼年輕的人口。每個人都在進入勞動力隊伍並在勞動力隊伍中晉升，而且知識工作者越來越多。

And it's become an environment where you can imagine a bigger, healthier, more dynamic kind of IT world in China. It's obvious to me and probably obvious to you. So I'm really excited about long term. We have a great brand there. I mean a really great brand there, incredibly strong market shares. And that's across both our 2 consumer businesses. On the video collaboration side, it's never been as strong there. It's just, for some reason, the dynamics there have developed quite differently.

它已經成為您可以想像中國更大、更健康、更有活力的 IT 世界的環境。這對我來說很明顯，對你來說可能也很明顯。所以我對長期發展感到非常興奮。我們在那裡有一個很棒的品牌。我的意思是那裡有一個非常棒的品牌，非常強大的市場份額。這涉及我們的 2 個消費者業務。在視頻協作方面，它從未如此強大。只是，出於某種原因，那裡的動態發展完全不同。

And that does tend to happen in China in some categories. We'll see if it eventually gets to be, it's really got more gusto. But overall, I don't see anything but strength long term in China. But I don't -- it's really hard for me to call, just like it is for our visibility in the back half of the year for the company in general for China, particularly, I don't know.

在某些類別中，這確實往往會發生在中國。我們會看看它最終是否會變得更加有趣。但總的來說，我看不到中國的長期實力。但我不——這對我來說真的很難打電話，就像我們在今年下半年在中國的一般公司的知名度一樣，特別是，我不知道。

Yes. I think as it relates to China, Q3 was a tough quarter. It was down -- we were down 25% year-over-year in Q3, Q4 though we were down 3% year-over-year. So it looks like a recovery in China. As Bracken mentioned, our top SKUs, the best-selling products in China are on the gaming side so there's just a huge opportunity on video, but it's a tough nut to crack, but that one, the market is just enormous. And so I think we're in a good position with things stabilizing there as it relates to volumes year-over-year.

是的。我認為就中國而言，第三季度是一個艱難的季度。它下降了——我們在第三季度和第四季度同比下降了 25%，儘管我們同比下降了 3%。所以看起來中國正在復蘇。正如 Bracken 所提到的，我們的頂級 SKU，在中國最暢銷的產品是在遊戲方面，所以視頻方面有巨大的機會，但這是一個難以破解的問題，但市場是巨大的。因此，我認為我們處於穩定的有利位置，因為它與同比銷量有關。

And we do partner differently in video in China than we do elsewhere because they have the same service players are not, I think, big video conference players are not as big in China. They're much smaller.

我們在中國的視頻合作夥伴與我們在其他地方的合作方式不同，因為他們擁有相同的服務，我認為大型視頻會議提供商在中國並不那麼大。它們要小得多。

Okay. That's great. And if I can just squeeze one more in the behavior you're seeing from the enterprise customers, I think you touched on it briefly, but just curious to know, it sounds like it hasn't gotten worse, but equally hasn't improved. But maybe if you could just go into that in a little bit more detail.

好的。那太棒了。如果我能從企業客戶的行為中再擠出一點，我想你只是簡單地提到了它，但只是想知道，聽起來它並沒有變得更糟，但同樣沒有改善.但也許你可以更詳細地討論一下。

I think you captured it. It's pretty much kind of stable. I would say it's about where it was, which doesn't really shock me. The layoff news continues, as in the layoffs, especially in tech, but it's also spread to some extent, as you know, on banking. And I think in some other sectors, I think that news kind of -- it's kind of -- it seems like it may be as almost all the way out, the big company news, at least is almost all the way out, but the impact really driples over 3 to 6 to 9 months. So I think that those Domino's will continue to fall now for another few quarters, but it will turn.

我想你抓住了它。它非常穩定。我會說這是關於它的位置，這並沒有讓我感到震驚。裁員消息仍在繼續，就像裁員一樣，尤其是在科技領域，但正如你所知，它也在一定程度上傳播到銀行業。而且我認為在其他一些領域，我認為新聞有點 - 它有點 - 似乎它可能幾乎完全出路，大公司新聞，至少幾乎完全出路，但影響真的會持續 3 到 6 到 9 個月。所以我認為那些多米諾骨牌現在將繼續下降幾個季度，但它會轉向。

Our next question is from George Wang at Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 George Wang。

Chuck, maybe you can give more color on the capital return kind of going forward, especially given better cash flow backdrop, with some tailwinds coming back on the inventory kind of better cost of profile? Just curious if you have any color just on buyback or kind of dividend going forward.

查克，也許你可以在未來的資本回報方面給出更多的顏色，特別是考慮到更好的現金流背景，一些順風回歸庫存，更好的概況成本？只是好奇你是否有任何關於回購或未來股息的顏色。

Yes, we're just really proud of what we've been able to accomplish on returning capital to shareholders over the last few years. We had a great cash quarter. We had a great cash year. If you look at it year-over-year, our cash balance now is $1.14 billion, $1.15 billion. It's down year-over-year. I think we ended last year at about $1.2 billion or $1.3 billion and we returned $577 million roughly to shareholders. So that has been great.

是的，我們真的為過去幾年在向股東返還資本方面取得的成就感到自豪。我們有一個很棒的現金季度。我們有一個很棒的現金年。如果你按年看，我們的現金餘額現在是 11.4 億美元，11.5 億美元。它逐年下降。我認為我們去年年底的收入約為 12 億美元或 13 億美元，我們大致向股東返還了 5.77 億美元。所以這很棒。

Our primary objective, though, as we've stated before, is growth. And so we -- to the extent we don't use cash to buy companies or expand, and then we plan to return that back to our shareholders via a great dividend that we pay as well as buybacks.

不過，正如我們之前所說，我們的主要目標是增長。因此，我們 - 在某種程度上我們不使用現金購買公司或擴張，然後我們計劃通過我們支付的高額股息和回購將其返還給我們的股東。

Okay. I have a quick follow-up. Bracken, maybe you can comment on the kind of share gains. In your prepared remarks, you called out some share gains within the gaming category. Are there any other kind of category you want on the cloud in terms of notable share gains in the last few months?

好的。我有一個快速跟進。布雷肯，也許你可以評論一下股票收益的種類。在您準備好的發言中，您提到了遊戲類別中的一些份額收益。就過去幾個月的顯著份額增長而言，您是否希望在雲上有任何其他類型的類別？

Across the year, you can see our share gains across most of our key categories. And those share gains were very wide spread and consistent and it's really a function of our innovation engine. Within any single quarter or a few months, we'll have sometimes bobbles up and down, so I won't go through the individual categories. But we've -- over the 10 to 11 years that I've been here, we've consistently gained share in almost every category. And we're -- that's why we're so focused on design and design-led engineering, and that's why we're investing.

全年，您可以看到我們在大多數關鍵類別中的份額增長。這些份額的增長非常廣泛且一致，這實際上是我們創新引擎的一個功能。在任何一個季度或幾個月內，我們有時會上下波動，所以我不會逐一討論。但在我來這裡的 10 到 11 年裡，我們一直在幾乎每個類別中獲得份額。我們——這就是為什麼我們如此專注於設計和以設計為主導的工程，這就是我們進行投資的原因。

Our next question is from Serge Rotzer at Credit Suisse.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Serge Rotzer。

Well, 2 simple questions. The first question is you were down 22% in sales and also in gaming, 25%, 27% in your conference. And can you give me a feeling -- how much is price impact and how much is volume impact, price impact due to promotions, but also due to more competition in the enterprise business. Can you give me a flavor on that?

好吧，2個簡單的問題。第一個問題是你的銷售額下降了 22%，遊戲也下降了 25%，你的會議下降了 27%。你能給我一種感覺——價格影響有多大，銷量影響有多大，價格影響是由於促銷，也是由於企業業務競爭加劇。你能給我一個味道嗎？

Certainly. It's -- the year-over-year changes are primarily volume. We were promoting a little more than we'd expected in Q3 that has returned to normal. So it's primarily volumes year-over-year.

當然。這是 - 同比變化主要是數量。我們的促銷活動比我們在第三季度恢復正常時的預期要多一些。所以它主要是同比銷量。

Any product categories where you have been able to increase prices or to increase volume?

您能夠提高價格或增加銷量的任何產品類別？

We increased prices in a number of categories. There have been some bright spots. Some of the tablets and accessories have been a bright spot. Certainly, there's lots of different -- we have many, many SKUs, many products, many of them -- there are many that are growing, but the secular trends that you're seeing, our year-over-year comps. As we start to lap our Q4 and throughout this year, I think you will -- we'll see easier and better comps as it relates to the year-over-year results.

我們提高了一些類別的價格。出現了一些亮點。一些平板電腦和配件一直是亮點。當然，有很多不同的東西——我們有很多很多 SKU，很多產品，其中很多——有很多在增長，但是你看到的長期趨勢，我們的年度比較。當我們開始第四季度和今年全年時，我想你會 - 我們會看到更容易和更好的 comps，因為它與同比結果相關。

Okay. Fair enough. And probably switch direct to the second question. At the Capital Market Day, you mentioned us, hey, guys, look at the seasonality of over quarters in sales. And it's 4% to 8% in sales you do the first 6 months and obviously, (inaudible) in second -- 6 months for second half. Now I'm wondering, we also have a seasonality in EBIT. In the past, you did 40% of the EBIT in the first 6 months. So basically, you had to do 60% in the second half. And when I take your guidance, and what sum this up for the full year, and we are at the level at the midpoint of $435 million. This is clearly below consensus and expectation. Now I'm wondering, are you to cautions more for the first 6 months? Or are you much more ambitious for the second 6 months?

好的。很公平。並且可能直接切換到第二個問題。在資本市場日，你提到我們，嘿，伙計們，看看銷售季度的季節性。前 6 個月的銷售額為 4% 到 8%，顯然，（聽不清）第二個 - 下半年的 6 個月。現在我想知道，我們的息稅前利潤也有季節性。過去，你在前 6 個月做了 40% 的 EBIT。所以基本上，你必須在下半場完成 60%。當我接受你的指導以及對全年的總結時，我們處於 4.35 億美元的中點水平。這顯然低於共識和預期。現在我想知道，您是否在前 6 個月要多加註意？還是您對後 6 個月更有野心？

Well, you're seeing is the profile is on a transitional stage. So operating expenses are coming down. We're taking costs out, and we're seeing some benefits that we think will manifest into gross margins. And so that profile that you're seeing in this transitional stage is putting more pressure in the near term. We're not providing outlook to the back half of the year because, quite frankly, we just don't know. We hope to do that. We plan to return to annual guidance over time. Certainly, we're optimistic that the December quarter, our biggest quarter will be a strong at this point sitting here in early May. It's just too early right now to provide color on Q3 and Q4.

那麼，您看到的是配置文件處於過渡階段。因此，運營費用正在下降。我們正在削減成本，我們看到了一些我們認為會體現在毛利率中的好處。因此，您在這個過渡階段看到的情況在短期內會帶來更大的壓力。我們沒有提供下半年的展望，因為坦率地說，我們只是不知道。我們希望這樣做。我們計劃隨著時間的推移恢復年度指導。當然，我們樂觀地認為 12 月季度，我們最大的季度將在 5 月初的這一點上表現強勁。現在提供 Q3 和 Q4 的顏色還為時過早。

But to be honest, to improve your margin, your EBIT contribution in the second half, you need success in VC. Is this correct because it is still the highest gross profit margin product?

但老實說，為了提高你的利潤率，你下半年的息稅前利潤貢獻，你需要在風險投資方面取得成功。這是否正確，因為它仍然是毛利率最高的產品？

Well, certainly, if videoconference improves, that's an additional tailwind, the mix that we talked about. It's really hard to predict what will happen with the mix. I will tell you generally the B2B categories are less seasonal. So I think you'll see the other parts of the business will mix up more in the Q3 quarter due to seasonality. But video does not have to return to get to our targets. But if it does, I think that's great, and we expect it to. We just -- we're not providing guidance for the back half of the year.

好吧，當然，如果視頻會議得到改善，那將是一個額外的順風，我們談到的混合。真的很難預測混合會發生什麼。我會告訴你，一般來說，B2B 類別的季節性較低。所以我認為你會看到業務的其他部分由於季節性因素在第三季度會更多地混合在一起。但是視頻不必返回到我們的目標。但如果確實如此，我認為那很好，我們期待它。我們只是 - 我們不會為今年下半年提供指導。

Probably still the last one. You mentioned VC stable, but we see quarter-over-quarter was minus down 20%. So what do you mean were stable when something is down by 20%.

應該還是最後一個吧。你提到 VC 穩定，但我們看到環比下降了 20%。那麼當某物下降 20% 時，你的意思是穩定的。

Yes, that's a good question. So we're going to realign the categories that we show you next quarter. So you'll see we're going to break out in a bit more detail the quarterly businesses. So in the video category, we have professional webcams and some other solutions in there. and webcams across the board, business to business, consumer, those have seen some significant declines. And whereas the room solutions have been fairly stable, and that's what we're referring to.

是的，這是個好問題。因此，我們將在下個季度重新調整向您展示的類別。所以你會看到我們將更詳細地介紹季度業務。所以在視頻類別中，我們有專業的網絡攝像頭和其他一些解決方案。以及全面的網絡攝像頭，企業對企業，消費者，這些都出現了一些顯著下降。而房間解決方案一直相當穩定，這就是我們所指的。

Yes, I'm glad you said that, Chuck, because I think that I can't wait until we do that realignment because it will -- I think it will be our things for people.

是的，我很高興你這麼說，查克，因為我認為我等不及我們進行重新調整，因為它會——我認為這將是我們為人們做的事情。

Great. Our next question is from Andreas Muller at ZKB.

偉大的。我們的下一個問題來自 ZKB 的 Andreas Muller。

I have one on Windows 11, if that's going to help you in -- at some point. You mentioned this correlation with PC sales, of course, is not that much strong, but from a product perspective that this operating system will help you in some ways with your product that some new innovations coming in.

我在 Windows 11 上有一個，如果它在某些時候對你有幫助的話。你提到這種與 PC 銷售的相關性當然不是那麼強，但從產品的角度來看，這個操作系統將在某些方面幫助你的產品，一些新的創新即將到來。

My experience with Windows upgrades is just kind of ignore them from a volume standpoint for the near term and then the long term, they're good because they keep the PC industry vibrant. So that's kind of the way we're thinking about it now. But I'm sure it will be a good thing overall good for users. And our products are always well integrated with the latest Windows upgrades. So it's going to -- we're going to be in good shape there. But I wouldn't expect anything significantly changed because of that.

我對 Windows 升級的經驗只是從短期和長期的數量角度忽略它們，它們很好，因為它們保持了 PC 行業的活力。這就是我們現在考慮的方式。但我相信這對用戶來說總體上是一件好事。我們的產品始終與最新的 Windows 升級完美集成。所以它會 - 我們將在那裡保持良好狀態。但我不希望因此而發生任何重大變化。

Okay. And then your ...

好的。然後你的...

I would add one other thing. I think the bigger change we've made is our products work really well with Apple with the MAC and that's happened over the last year, and we've seen really significant business improvement and potential out there because of that.

我要補充一件事。我認為我們所做的更大的改變是我們的產品與 Apple 的 MAC 配合得非常好，這在去年發生了，我們已經看到了真正顯著的業務改進和潛力。

That's tied to the productivity categories or also ... Then next question, you're cash-rich company right now. And I was wondering, can you discuss if that is helpful or once has helped over times when financing by banks sort of far more conservative and towards clients and competitors, mean does that change your position in some ways? Because I saw the DPOs went up.

這與生產力類別有關，或者也……那麼下一個問題，你現在是現金充裕的公司。我想知道，當銀行的融資更加保守並且面向客戶和競爭對手時，您能否討論這是否有幫助或者曾經有過幫助，這是否會在某些方面改變您的立場？因為我看到 DPO 上漲了。

Let me just try to briefly answer that and I'll let Chuck jump in. I'm not sure it really changed anything for us because we don't need much support from the banks. We do have great banking relationships in the event we ever needed it. But we don't really need much so probably didn't change much. I will say, it's kind of comforting not to be too dependent on leverage in tough times. But I think -- at the end of the day, we're really -- as you said, we're a cash-rich company, but we're also a very good cash generator. So that means we have to make sure that we deploy that cash responsibly. And I think like Chuck, I'm really proud of the way we put the cash back in shareholders' hands last year in one way or another. And I think we expect to continue to be a great cash generator, and we're aggressively looking for strategic ways to really grow our business because growth is what it's all about. And so we're going to keep doing that. Chuck, do you want to add anything to that?

讓我試著簡短地回答一下，我會讓 Chuck 插話。我不確定它真的改變了我們什麼，因為我們不需要銀行的太多支持。在我們需要的情況下，我們確實擁有良好的銀行關係。但我們真的不需要太多，所以可能沒有太大變化。我會說，在困難時期不要過於依賴槓桿是一種安慰。但我認為——歸根結底，我們真的——正如你所說，我們是一家現金充裕的公司，但我們也是一家非常好的現金產生者。所以這意味著我們必須確保我們負責任地部署現金。我認為和查克一樣，我為去年我們以某種方式將現金返還給股東的方式感到非常自豪。而且我認為我們希望繼續成為一個偉大的現金產生者，我們正在積極尋找戰略方法來真正發展我們的業務，因為增長就是一切。因此，我們將繼續這樣做。 Chuck，你想補充什麼嗎？

Yes, I agree. We have a very high bar for M&A. We've got a great history and a great track record. And to the extent we find great opportunities, then we'll deploy it. Otherwise, we will return the capital to shareholders as we've done. But I'm very comfortable with the cash balance that we have. It's similar to where it's been the last couple of years. And so I think it's sort of steady as she goes on the capital allocation model.

是的我同意。我們對併購有很高的要求。我們擁有偉大的歷史和良好的業績記錄。在某種程度上，我們發現了巨大的機會，然後我們將部署它。否則，我們將像我們所做的那樣將資本返還給股東。但我對我們擁有的現金餘額感到非常滿意。它類似於過去幾年的情況。因此，我認為隨著她繼續進行資本配置模型，它有點穩定。

Okay. And then last question on -- with -- for you, Chuck, this $18 million restructuring charge was that it now in this program? Or should we look for more going forward?

好的。然後最後一個問題 - 對你來說，查克，這筆 1800 萬美元的重組費用是現在在這個計劃中嗎？還是我們應該期待更多的進步？

There will be more charges. The accounting rules have kind of changed over the years where you used to just take all the charges upfront. And then you would spend against those reserves. The rules have changed a little bit. So there will be additional charges that we incur over the next few quarters. But largely, the actions are all done internally. It's just more the timing.

會有更多的費用。這些年來，會計規則發生了一些變化，過去你只需要預先支付所有費用。然後你會花掉這些儲備金。規則發生了一些變化。因此，我們將在接下來的幾個季度內產生額外費用。但在很大程度上，這些行動都是在內部完成的。這只是更多的時機。

Bracken, Chuck, our final question for the morning is from Michael at Vontobel.

Bracken，Chuck，我們早上的最後一個問題來自 Vontobel 的 Michael。

Hi Michael. It's biking season so you're probably back out.

嗨邁克爾。現在是騎自行車的季節，所以您可能會退出。

Okay. I have one on sustainability. You mentioned that your carbon labeling is now, I think, 45% of products. what holds you back from being faster and labeling the rest? And is the process so complex? Is that maybe a reason why it's also holding back your peers from doing the same?

好的。我有一個關於可持續性的。你提到你的碳標籤現在，我認為，45% 的產品。是什麼阻礙了你變得更快並給其他人貼上標籤？而且流程這麼複雜？這可能是它也阻止你的同齡人做同樣事情的原因嗎？

Okay. I'll answer, there are 2 things going on there. One is that it is a -- we don't want to just give a really high-level estimate of carbon impact because we're taking scopes 1, 2 and 3, which means from the components that go into our products. transportation, in use and end of life. So we're really taking the full period. We also need to have enough data to actually be able to draw conclusions that are accurate. So some of our products that are newer, we really have to give them a year before we have a good accurate assessment. So -- so that's one of the drivers. The second one is it just takes a while to then implement those into individual products, product by product. So I'm really excited about how fast we've moved actually.

好的。我會回答，那裡發生了兩件事。一個是它是——我們不想只給出一個真正高水平的碳影響估計，因為我們採用範圍 1、2 和 3，這意味著來自我們產品的組件。運輸、使用和報廢。所以我們真的要花完整的時間。我們還需要有足夠的數據才能真正得出準確的結論。所以我們一些比較新的產品，我們真的要給他們一年的時間，我們才能有一個很好的準確評估。所以 - 這是驅動因素之一。第二個是將這些逐個產品實施到單個產品中只需要一段時間。所以我對我們實際移動的速度感到非常興奮。

And I think one of the reasons why you don't see it from other people is because it isn't easy, we're trying to make it easier. So we have been working with an external provider to try to make that easier and more cost efficient because it's not terribly expensive, but it costs some money because we really strongly believe that everybody should be carbon labeling in every industry that this is really the one tool that we can all use, governments can use to drive Basal to compete with each other on carbon.

我認為你看不到其他人的原因之一是因為它並不容易，我們正在努力讓它變得更容易。所以我們一直在與外部供應商合作，試圖讓這件事變得更容易、更具成本效益，因為它不是非常昂貴，但它要花一些錢，因為我們堅信每個行業的每個人都應該貼上碳標籤，這才是真正的行業我們都可以使用的工具，政府可以用來推動 Basal 在碳方面相互競爭。

And then on your guidance for the first half of your fiscal year, what -- which categories are you most confident in that, that will support that guidance? And where do you have more uncertainty looking in the first 6 months.

然後根據您對上半年財政年度的指導意見，您對哪些類別最有信心，這將支持該指導意見？在前 6 個月中，您在哪裡有更多的不確定性。

I won't try to be anything except just straightforward on this. It's a little hard to say. I really think personal workspace seems pretty solid, mice and keyboards. -- it's just kind of -- it's been great for us since, I mean since 1981, so '82, and it continues to be. And I think that the gaming category will be solid. I think video collaboration. It's -- I kind of think that one. They say enter cycle earlier on consumer and you exited earlier and you enter cycle later on B2B, and you exited later. So I would say if you had to ask me, you really pressed me, I would say that my guess is that the mouse and keyboard business will be steadier and more reliable than the others. But it's been a little hard to tell through this cycle. One of the reasons we only guided 6 months is because it's really harder to tell right now, especially on the B2B side.

除了直截了當之外，我不會嘗試做任何事情。有點不好說。我真的認為個人工作區看起來很穩固，鼠標和鍵盤。 - 它只是 - 它對我們來說一直很棒，我的意思是自 1981 年以來，所以 82 年，它一直如此。而且我認為遊戲類別將會穩固。我認為是視頻協作。這是 - 我有點認為那個。他們說消費者早點進入周期，你早點退出，你在 B2B 上晚點進入周期，然後退出。所以我想說，如果你不得不問我，你真的給我壓力，我會說我的猜測是鼠標和鍵盤業務將比其他業務更穩定、更可靠。但是這個週期有點難說。我們只指導 6 個月的原因之一是因為現在真的很難說，尤其是在 B2B 方面。

All right. And then I have a last one for Chuck. You mentioned return on invested capital as your ultimate metrics. Is -- how long do you have to wait until that becomes sort of part of your long-term model?

好的。然後我有最後一個給 Chuck。您提到投資資本回報率是您的最終指標。是 - 你必須等多久才能成為你長期模型的一部分？

I don't think at this point, we plan to use that for an outlook externally. It's an internal metric that we track, and it's -- so I would not expect us to publish a long-term outlook there.

我不認為在這一點上，我們計劃將其用於外部展望。這是我們跟踪的一個內部指標，而且它是——所以我不希望我們在那裡發布長期展望。

I do love that we're using it internally. And I think it's a super important metric.

我很高興我們在內部使用它。我認為這是一個非常重要的指標。

Well, thanks to all of you.

好吧，謝謝你們所有人。

I'll jump in here, Nate. Just I really appreciate all the discussion -- one quarter down, in a minute, we have more visibility. You can bet that our strong visibility, we're going to go to the full year, as Chuck said. And so thanks, we'll see you in a quarter.

我會跳進去，內特。我真的很感謝所有的討論——四分之一的時間，在一分鐘內，我們有更多的知名度。正如查克所說，您可以打賭我們的知名度很高，我們將進入全年。所以謝謝，我們將在一個季度見。